The Art of Manliness - Magician's Secrets for Becoming More Commanding, Convincing, And Charismatic

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast

00:00:10.860 to be successful at their craft magicians must possess the well-honed technical skills

00:00:15.600 to pull off their mystifying tricks and clever sleights of hand but as magician steve cohen

00:00:20.320 observes they must also be masters at attracting interest holding attention and leaving audiences

00:00:25.240 with fond memories of their time together skills that everyone can use to persuade audiences

00:00:29.520 charm dates own a room and influence others steve also known as the millionaire's magician

00:00:35.380 is the author of win the crowd unlock the secrets of influence charisma and showmanship today on the

00:00:41.640 show steve shares the insights he and his fellow magicians know on everything from taking command

00:00:45.940 of a room to creating a compelling character to making a magical entrance steve shares how to

00:00:51.100 build your boldness through put pocketing develop spontaneous resourcefulness get people wrapped up

00:00:56.260 in the magic of your message by suggesting rather than stating increase your confidence by having

00:01:01.240 a place for everything and everything in its place and much more at the end of our conversation he

00:01:06.500 shares two of his most interesting tips and explains how to influence people to do what you want by

00:01:11.160 using layered commands and the trailing orb after the show is over check out our show notes at

00:01:15.840 awim.is slash win the crowd all right steve cohen welcome to the show thank you very much so you are a

00:01:40.000 magician and you call yourself the millionaire's magician where did that descriptor come from and

00:01:45.820 how are your magic shows different from say the ones you might see in las vegas okay well for the

00:01:51.460 past 23 years i've been doing a live show in new york city i've also taken it around the world to

00:01:57.540 various other major metropolises but new york city is my home base for 17 of those years i performed at

00:02:03.740 the waldorf astoria hotel in the penthouse suite so i think that kind of speaks to the millionaire's

00:02:10.140 magician moniker is that the people who come to the waldorf astoria were really kind of uh you know

00:02:15.140 people who were enjoying the finer things in life so i performed the show at the waldorf for as i said

00:02:20.420 17 actually 17 and a half years moved the show to the new york palace hotel which is a really ultra

00:02:26.540 luxury 19th century mansion in the middle of manhattan right behind saint patrick's cathedral

00:02:31.880 and when people come to the magic show it's a real experience it's not just like you're going to a

00:02:38.020 conference room or going into you know a bar it's actually a 19th century parlor which has gilded

00:02:46.380 ceilings and beautiful marble pillars and persian rugs and the experience is one that you kind of

00:02:54.660 you know will think about afterwards as a step back in time so that's really what i think differs from

00:03:00.440 my show with a lot of other magic shows is that i'm trying to honor the history of magic and bring it

00:03:07.140 back to life again many times magicians try to be all current and make something which is very you

00:03:13.600 know of the times but in my case we have everyone dress up in cocktail attire and it's very elegant

00:03:20.180 and kind of i wouldn't say stayed evening because it's not that at all it's really fun but it is more

00:03:26.260 of a formal dress-up affair and i've had many people say to me afterwards like why did you make us dress

00:03:33.020 up and then you know when they walk in they say oh and now i get it because you're in this really

00:03:37.840 ultra luxury 19th century mansion it looks like you're walking into versailles so it's very intimate

00:03:44.060 so i think maybe people have been to a big magic show there's fog machines and lasers and you know

00:03:48.720 maybe some tigers you're trying to go back to that where it's a small room a group of people and it's

00:03:53.500 it's it's a very intimate experience that's correct yes so you know the maximum size audience that i

00:03:59.020 perform for at the palace hotel for the my show chamber magic is 64 people so it's it's very

00:04:04.460 intimate you know when anytime you're under 100 is is intimate so the reason i brought you on is

00:04:09.560 back in 2006 you wrote a book called win the crowd and what it is is you talk about what you do as a

00:04:16.020 magician to practice good showmanship so being a great magician isn't just about mastering the technique

00:04:22.140 that's an important part that's a necessary and essential part but it's not sufficient you also need

00:04:27.780 to have charisma understand psychology understand presentation and the things you use as a magician

00:04:35.100 you make the case they can apply to anybody who's trying to present themselves in the world whether

00:04:39.520 in business or in their personal life and then win the crowd you start the book off highlighting what

00:04:45.060 you call your five maxims of magic that can be used to persuade and influence and the first maxim is

00:04:52.000 be bold so as a magician what does that look like for you to take risks don't be shy about the actions

00:04:59.280 you take or the words that you speak and so really what that means to me is that you need to try things

00:05:06.160 that you've never tried before otherwise you won't get results that you've never had before and so you

00:05:11.380 know there's a great magician his name was jimmy grippo and the legend goes that jimmy grippo was sitting in a

00:05:17.920 bank just before closing hour and he saw that the bank manager was about to close the safe that time

00:05:25.660 locked safe and he just took this bold moment and he took a playing card that he had in his pocket

00:05:32.300 let's say it was the three of diamonds and he just flung it with his hand he flung it and whipped it

00:05:38.360 and it skirted underneath the door as the safe door was closing so now inside of this locked safe

00:05:46.320 on the floor is a three of diamonds just sitting there unbeknownst to the bank manager or anyone

00:05:51.880 else in that bank so now he walks away with the kind of a tingle in his eye and and he goes home

00:05:58.980 and thinks how am i going to take advantage of this so the next day he goes back to the bank and he

00:06:04.160 sees the bank manager and he says i'd like to show you a magic trick i remember me from yesterday and

00:06:09.500 the manager's like yeah and so he says let me show you a card trick and he pulls out a deck of cards

00:06:14.500 that matches the same card back design as the one that he had flung inside the vault and he made sure

00:06:20.960 that this bank manager took a card which was identical the three of diamonds there's magic

00:06:25.560 ways to do that and so after the bank manager took the three of diamonds he put the card back in the

00:06:32.120 deck and jimmy grippo says now i'm going to make your card disappear and reappear inside that vault

00:06:36.700 and the bank manager says that's impossible he said well open it up and he says i can't open it

00:06:42.640 because it doesn't open until the time lock opens at 8 a.m so he says okay we'll just wait for it

00:06:48.440 and they waited and they opened up the vault and sure enough on the floor is that three of diamonds

00:06:54.240 and so that's a miracle right i mean the bank manager's eyes bulge out of his head he wouldn't

00:07:00.320 stop talking about it and that's the type of story that would create legends that would actually pay off

00:07:05.400 in great dividends for jimmy grippo for years to come look we're talking about it decades after he's

00:07:11.060 died so you never would really know the outcome unless you gave it a try and that's really what

00:07:17.740 boldness means to me as a magician is unless you try something that may fail you may not ever actually

00:07:23.980 get any magnificent outcome now having said that what happens if he goes back to the bank and the

00:07:29.560 manager wouldn't let him perform a card trick or what happens if the bank manager took the wrong card

00:07:34.340 or what if the bank manager said you know go away we don't need to see this now we've got other

00:07:38.420 things going on i have a you know manager's meeting well then that's a lost opportunity but at the same

00:07:44.480 time he didn't really lose anything at all it was a trial which could eventually turn into something

00:07:49.880 magnificent and if it fails it doesn't harm anyone so i think that's really what being bolder is wrapped

00:07:56.120 up in so how can like regular people be more bold in their social interactions you think well i mean

00:08:02.380 i think part of it is just to overcome your natural tendency to be quiet and to shut up just to become

00:08:08.780 a bigger version of yourself so for instance let's say you're in an elevator and you see some random

00:08:14.480 person just standing there the the likely response would just be to be quiet not say anything but if you

00:08:21.780 want to practice being a little bit bolder one thing that you could do is just like say to that person

00:08:26.880 hey nice sweater you're wearing there i like that or maybe the person might respond thank you

00:08:32.400 maybe they'll think you're a creep maybe they'll ignore you and just get off the elevator but what

00:08:38.180 you've just done is you've built up a little bit of a notch in your belt of being bold you've tried

00:08:43.780 something you haven't tried before now admittedly it's very that's a simple drill right it's not

00:08:48.180 something that would really be you know some great advancement in your ability to be bold however

00:08:54.240 another example i give in the book which i love and i've actually done this to people and have it had

00:08:59.100 done to me is what we call the quarter load and you know you've heard of pickpocketing right people

00:09:05.620 go up to you and they bump into you and they steal your wallet if you're in the subway or if you're

00:09:10.380 walking around in a crowded place that happens it has happened you know for centuries however this is

00:09:17.320 the opposite it's called the quarter load you're put pocketing you're putting things into people's

00:09:22.680 pockets and again this is just it sounds like a joke it sounds like a gag sounds like a ruse but

00:09:28.760 i've done this many times and i think this can help you build up your courage and your boldness and

00:09:34.280 your ability to feel like you can do things you haven't done before so what i do is i walk around

00:09:39.240 with a bunch of quarters in my pocket and in these days hardly anyone carries change but i have done this

00:09:45.440 for many years and when you see someone you kind of just tap them and one of the quarters you've had

00:09:52.880 hidden in your hand i forgot to mention you hide one quarter inside of your fingers and when you tap

00:09:56.860 the person you load the quarter into their jacket pocket now it could be their side pocket it could be

00:10:02.140 their breast pocket it could be their purse if it's a woman it could be you know a shirt pocket it 1.00

00:10:06.940 could be any sort of a pocket but the idea is to try to load this coin inside of someone's pocket

00:10:12.060 now why would you do that it seems like a foolish task for me to give you what it does it gives you

00:10:17.500 this giddy feeling that you've just invaded their space that you're not stealing anything from them

00:10:23.680 you're not taking anything from them in fact you're giving them value you're giving them a little bit of

00:10:27.660 money not very much admittedly but you're giving them something and at the same time you're walking 0.96

00:10:32.040 away thinking i just got away with something and it's made me stronger and it's so foolish and it sounds 0.93

00:10:39.580 ridiculous and i've had people say that's how you're going to teach someone to become bolder 0.89

00:10:43.440 and i've had people do it to me and they walk up to me and they're just talking to me they pat me on 0.92

00:10:48.600 the chest like hey how's it going cohen and then i go home and sure enough i find a quarter in my

00:10:53.400 pocket one man did it to me he loaded an amethyst crystal into my pocket and then he emailed me the

00:10:59.180 next day saying see i got you and it gave him this sense of power it gives the people who've done this

00:11:04.840 to me this sense of power and it's not much power but it gives you the feeling of what it feels like

00:11:10.300 to be bold so the second maxim is expect success and i think this is with grippo he not only was

00:11:17.240 he bold but he expected success with this trick as a magician when you're working how do you go into

00:11:22.620 a show expecting success well you know i've got an interesting story about this so one of my very

00:11:28.760 close friends unfortunately passed away at a young age was named mark sisher he was a great magician

00:11:34.120 he had just graduated from college worked for a couple of years before passing away but i remember

00:11:39.700 i was living overseas i was living in tokyo japan at the time and i got a letter from him because this

00:11:44.660 is before the age of email and before cell phones this is we're talking you know decades back and he

00:11:51.740 sent me a typewritten letter and in the letter he said steve i figured out how to perform magic

00:11:59.040 more effectively and what he wrote was that he doesn't go into his performance venues thinking

00:12:08.440 that it's an adversarial relationship but he goes in there assuming that the audience already loves him

00:12:14.500 and he said by assuming that my audience already loves me then i don't have to be aggressive towards

00:12:21.900 them to try to push them to like me i thought that was really interesting because you know magic in

00:12:27.480 general is rather adversarial right i mean i'm going to fool you you can't catch me right that's

00:12:33.100 what a lot of magic is and the audience if given that prompt will probably say okay i will try to

00:12:39.200 catch you and you're not going to fool me so so the difference being now if you know like my friend

00:12:46.000 mark sisher said if you go in there assuming that people are already going to love you you're expecting

00:12:50.560 success and that changes the tone of the performance it changes the tone of the engagement

00:12:57.160 that you're going to have with your with your audience now having said that most people who are

00:13:01.800 listening to this i'm assuming are not magicians so what would that mean then for someone else well

00:13:07.680 i would like write down for example the likely outcomes of what an experience what an engagement might

00:13:13.280 be and think of what's the best possible way that this can possibly go so whether you're having a

00:13:19.460 business meeting or a presentation think of what the best possible outcome is and then actually focus

00:13:25.160 on that a lot of times we think about what the negative things are like what can go wrong you know

00:13:30.360 never apologize never panic never go into something thinking okay you know i'm going to this is going to

00:13:35.440 fail you know i just go into my performances thinking i've done this before i know it's going to work

00:13:40.940 and it's going to work so it's very you know it's kind of basic it's kind of a simple

00:13:47.780 thinking but if you know what your desired outcome is then you can veer towards that in the right

00:13:54.600 direction i think oftentimes when people give public speeches they're afraid that everyone's just

00:13:59.640 judging them and looking at all their mistakes and really if you think about it when i'm listening to

00:14:05.080 someone give a speech i'm rooting for them like i want them to do well like i want them to succeed 0.98

00:14:08.920 and even when they have a slip up i'm not like oh what a dumb dumb i'm just like that's all right 0.94

00:14:14.740 you can recover from this and that can happen in social interactions too i think when you know 0.97

00:14:19.100 you're interacting with somebody at least what i am interacting with somebody i'm not thinking 0.96

00:14:23.500 boy this person what a dumb dumb i'm thinking hey i want this person to to do okay here so i think that 0.96

00:14:29.060 mentality can apply to anybody how do you expect success when things go wrong right so i imagine you've 0.99

00:14:35.280 done thousands and thousands of shows not every trick goes off the way it's supposed to so what do

00:14:40.580 you do when something doesn't go as planned so you can still maintain that idea of expect success

00:14:46.200 right well here's the thing yes i have done thousands of shows in fact this public show chamber magic

00:14:52.080 will be celebrating its six thousandth performance this fall and this is in 2023 so you know if you've

00:14:59.540 done you know this the show is nearly two hours long you know 12 000 hours of performing lots of things

00:15:06.520 have gone wrong and because lots of things have gone wrong i've built up kind of a an arsenal of

00:15:11.260 ways to get around that maybe that means that i'm seeing something happen i see something going south

00:15:17.020 before the audience does and i have what's basically a plan b and a plan c magicians like to call these

00:15:24.060 outs and an out is basically just knowing a possible ending that would not be the number one desirable

00:15:30.960 ending but it's the number two or number three desirable ending and it could be you know a little

00:15:36.020 less effective but it's still an ending so i think that one of the great things that you could do is

00:15:41.440 if you are going to give a presentation or a public speech if you're giving any sort of uh you know a

00:15:46.220 sales talk it's nice to challenge yourself with what could go wrong and then have contingencies so it's

00:15:53.060 not worth panicking it's not worth apologizing if something goes wrong you don't even have to say

00:15:57.240 anything you just say okay let's try it try again i've dropped cards i've dropped things in front of an

00:16:03.220 audience i've had props fail when i had important people in the audience and remember i'm performing

00:16:07.840 for you know people who are you know celebrities for billionaires for heads of state and you don't

00:16:13.540 want to be making mistakes in front of these people but by putting undue pressure on yourself then

00:16:18.460 most likely you might actually be moving in the wrong direction so typically what i like to do is give

00:16:24.780 myself the leeway of making five mistakes and i learned this from one of my mentors and teachers

00:16:31.500 and friends is juan tamari's a very famous spanish magician from madrid spain he says that he gives

00:16:37.920 himself the leeway to make five errors because you know you're going you're human you know that you're

00:16:43.140 liable to make a mistake so if you make a mistake why be so hard on yourself so what tamari says is if

00:16:49.920 you make a mistake first mistake you just chalk it off number one that's mistake number one and you

00:16:54.780 just keep moving forward as another friend of mine says it ain't shakespeare so if you make a mistake

00:17:00.020 it's okay and if you make mistake number two and you're like okay there was mistake number two to

00:17:05.620 be expected within my given five mistakes in this show make mistake number three and you're like okay

00:17:11.180 well hold on a second maybe this isn't the audience maybe this might be me let me really kind of drill

00:17:15.100 down here and focus on what's going wrong mistake number four i actually have never gotten that far

00:17:20.180 but i would probably be thinking to myself maybe i shouldn't have drunk that beer before this show

00:17:24.640 and then mistake number five would be like okay you know we're on red alert but still within the

00:17:30.680 range of allowables so the point being if you know that you're human which we all are it's okay to make

00:17:37.640 a mistake and audiences are forgiving and even with the magic trick where if someone sees the hidden

00:17:42.880 handkerchief sticking out of your hand you know it's like okay well how else would i do the trick of

00:17:46.700 course i have two but that makes it much harder to make them both disappear and then make both the

00:17:51.300 handkerchiefs disappear so you know there's lots of different ways that you can think on your toes

00:17:55.220 to just kind of get out of something if you made a mistake and that's just being resourceful i like

00:18:00.020 to call it spontaneous resourcefulness and that goes into another one of my maxims which is be prepared

00:18:05.440 and we could talk about that one later yeah well we'll talk about i think that's the last one you

00:18:09.600 have there okay so expect success go with a positive attitude think about how things can go right

00:18:13.560 and then have contingency plans if things don't go according to the original plan the third maxim is

00:18:19.680 don't state suggest so flesh that out for us what does that look like okay well this is something

00:18:24.800 that you know i've actually learned with the character that i've created which is the millionaire's

00:18:30.780 magician so millionaire's magician doesn't necessarily mean that we check people's bank balances at the

00:18:36.280 front door when they're checking in but you know i am a character i've created a character and i portray

00:18:41.440 a character on stage and what i like to think of is anyone when you're in front of an audience

00:18:47.440 is playing a character now it maybe it's just an enlargement or enhancement of yourself when you're

00:18:53.200 off stage or when you're not in front of you know of an audience but you're basically creating

00:18:58.320 a a visual and an auditory vision of what you should be like what you're what you want your audience to

00:19:05.320 take away so do you want your audience to think of you as someone conservative someone funny do you

00:19:10.060 want to think of you as a an open collar person versus a button-down collar person and necktie no

00:19:16.100 necktie dress no you know casual clothes i personally am wearing a tuxedo when i perform i

00:19:22.240 wear you know an evening wear or sometimes i wear a morning suit and what it does is suggest how i

00:19:28.800 expect my audience to behave with me if i were wearing a t-shirt and jeans and you know black

00:19:34.900 sneakers when performing in my venue it wouldn't make sense if i was a character in a book or a movie

00:19:40.900 the author wouldn't write about it would be such a disconnect to have someone casual in such a

00:19:45.820 formal environment so the venue plus my attitude plus my clothing plus the way i groom myself and

00:19:53.460 the way i speak all of these kind of suggest that the audience should act a certain way toward me

00:20:00.260 and fortunately by making this large you know kind of stage that people are coming into they're

00:20:07.660 stepping into a scene in a play in a way and that's how i like to think of you know suggesting as

00:20:13.720 opposed to stating we don't tell people you're going to be stepping back in time walking into

00:20:18.680 a 19th century parlor you know we just once they walk in they kind of discover it themselves and

00:20:24.720 then they react in the way that i've kind of set them up to i think that's actually a better

00:20:30.740 mechanism rather than for me to force it down their throat it'll be kind of an insult to your

00:20:36.040 intelligence if i just said to you i possess magical powers and you're going to believe in my

00:20:42.040 special abilities people would say come on you know who do you think you are but if i slowly

00:20:46.720 wrap them up into this world where they start seeing incredible things happen and they realize

00:20:52.820 that this is a step out of reality then they enter my world and i've seen this not only in magic i've

00:20:59.160 seen great salesmen sales people do this you know even if you go to a sale like a seminar like let's

00:21:04.160 say tony robbins or someone who's a motivational speaker like during the time that you're with that

00:21:08.980 person you are wrapped up in their world and it's not because they forced you to but it's because

00:21:14.360 you responded to the suggestions that they made okay so if a regular person if you want people to

00:21:20.160 treat you with respect and authority then dress that way act that way don't tell people you have

00:21:25.260 to respect yeah usually if you have to tell people you must respect me i've lost already of course of

00:21:31.460 course i remember what this happened one time i had a very horrible performance it was in long

00:21:36.940 island this uh women's event that i got hired to do and they were not there to watch a magic show

00:21:44.140 they were there to kibitz with each other and they were there to it was like some sort of a um

00:21:49.180 like a flea market type of thing that i don't even know why they hired me to perform at it but it

00:21:54.300 was just an awkward environment for me to perform in and all through the show the audience was not

00:22:00.340 really paying attention they were just chit-chatting with each other and at one point i realized

00:22:04.300 i can't go on i can't continue this performance i was standing on a platform and nobody was paying

00:22:10.280 attention so i stopped the show and i walked off and then this lady who had hired me walked on and 1.00

00:22:16.340 said come on everyone this guy is really good you should pay attention to him you should pay attention

00:22:20.480 to him he's really good and i walked back up on stage and it was even worse because by begging

00:22:25.980 you know it it just the whole thing fell apart so yeah that was that was an example of trying to

00:22:32.200 convince someone with your words that you're good is not as good as trying to convince them

00:22:36.820 just by your suggestions we're gonna take a quick break for your words from our sponsors

00:22:41.220 and now back to the show so the fourth maxim is practice practice practice walk us through the

00:22:54.400 amount of practice you have done and still do as a magician like what does your practice process look

00:22:59.560 like okay so i'm practicing all the time i've been doing magic since i was six i'm now 52 and there's

00:23:08.440 not a day that goes by where i'm not with a deck of cards in my hands or practicing with coins or other

00:23:13.180 small objects sometimes i'll practice a move a sleight of hand move with a deck of cards for example

00:23:19.240 for years before i'm ready to really include it in my performance and the idea is to make the moves

00:23:27.300 so smooth and so subtle that they become invisible to the audience not only wouldn't they be able to

00:23:34.140 see them but they wouldn't even be able to sense them or detect or be able to to realize that there's

00:23:38.700 any sort of tension in my hands really that's what the human eye responds to is tension right we if

00:23:45.160 you see something tense up then you think oh there must be something going on there i have to pay

00:23:48.980 attention so really what i'm trying to do with my magic is perfect the moves refine them to such a

00:23:54.860 degree that they really kind of disappear from your suspicion so practice for me is something that's fun

00:24:01.580 i think that uh that practice should be an enjoyable experience it you know of course it could be

00:24:07.120 grueling and at the end of the day you might be sweaty but that procedure of pushing yourself to get

00:24:13.280 better and better should be something that's enjoyable if you don't enjoy the craft maybe

00:24:17.820 trying something else might be a better use of your time if you don't enjoy the hard work that you have

00:24:22.900 to put into something in order to enjoy the spoils then maybe that craft might not be the one for you

00:24:28.140 so what i like to do is i just practice an isolation sometimes i'll i'll practice something with my eyes

00:24:34.700 closed after i've perfected the slight i'll practice it without looking another times i'll practice it

00:24:40.500 without speaking so kind of isolating the different skills rather than performing the move with my

00:24:46.180 patter which is the language that magicians use to back up the trick sometimes i'll just perform it in

00:24:51.860 silence and just go through the entire routine which could be like you know an eight minute performance

00:24:55.720 silently almost like a silent movie sometimes i'll just put the props away and do it without

00:25:00.920 any emotion i'll just do it in my head or i'll just say the words aloud and then i'm focusing on the

00:25:07.360 language so most importantly though i think is what i call pp and pp is people's practice or people

00:25:16.340 practice when you perform in front of people that's when you really can understand what all of this

00:25:23.300 means and how it will play out in the real world so you know performing in front of a mirror or in front

00:25:28.920 of a video camera is great and it's a necessity before you perform in front of an audience but you never

00:25:35.460 really learn until you perform in front of living breathing people and you know i'll be honest like

00:25:42.660 there's been times where i thought a trick would go really well by practicing and then i get in front

00:25:47.060 of people and they can see through it instantly and i'm like what did i do wrong what did i do wrong and

00:25:52.380 the fact is i just only practiced it in isolation i didn't get it in front of real people

00:25:56.500 and you know you learn by listening to the audience i remember one time david copperfield came to my show

00:26:02.840 at the waldorf astoria where i started and copperfield and i spent time about two hours

00:26:08.340 afterwards and he said to me you can't write a show like that what you just put on was a show that

00:26:14.720 was responding to the audience and you've listened to the audience for so many years that you learn what

00:26:21.880 works and you learn what doesn't work and he was right i've never actually written a script for the

00:26:27.260 show and now i've transcribed the show but i never wrote sat down and wrote every word out

00:26:31.940 but i listened to the audience and i listened to what they responded to and therefore it became

00:26:38.520 more of a success when you're doing this people practice when you first start out like let's say

00:26:44.200 you're doing a new trick you're not going to your main event show the chamber show are you going to

00:26:49.320 maybe like just random people with low stakes to do that that's that's one way to do it that's one

00:26:54.260 way to do it you know um yeah i have a the challenge that i have right now is you know i have an

00:26:59.100 audience that expects something they expect nothing but excellence right if they're paying

00:27:03.780 top broadway money to come to see my show which it is you know there was a time when we were

00:27:09.640 charging 750 per ticket to the show now we've lowered it back down to a more reasonable range of

00:27:15.740 between 125 and 350 per ticket so we're talking you know still a significant investment you're not

00:27:21.540 expecting to see someone try things out for the first time right this shouldn't be the venue the

00:27:26.280 playground where he's trying out his experimental work so i do need to have a place to perform and

00:27:32.660 try out these things and that could be as simple as trying out a magic trick for my my family or it

00:27:38.820 could be trying out some magic for my dry cleaner at the dry cleaning shop or it could be you know

00:27:43.520 just even not even performing the trick but just telling people about it and sometimes by telling

00:27:49.220 people about it then it actually helps to find what people find intriguing about it without even

00:27:54.500 performing the trick so i know i've i've experienced this i'm friends with david blaine and i remember

00:27:59.840 when david blaine would talk about uh you know his upcoming stunt he would tell people about it and tell

00:28:05.420 people about it and he would see what people were excited by so if he's saying like i'm going to stand

00:28:09.940 on top of a pillar people go okay i'm gonna stand on top of a pillar for 72 hours people go oh really

00:28:15.440 yeah there's not going to be anything there for me to to hold on to and if the wind comes i can just be

00:28:21.020 blown off the top of this pillar and then he sees the audience go oh and you see by learning what

00:28:27.760 makes the audience go oh you know you don't even have to be performing it you could just be telling

00:28:32.400 the story of something and by telling the story of something before you actually do it in front of the

00:28:37.620 target audience you learn in advance what's intriguing to other people and i imagine you know

00:28:42.960 you talk about how regular people can apply this if you are given a presentation you just want to

00:28:46.680 practice that over and over again and then do it in front of people too do in front of family members

00:28:51.600 low stakes another thing i thought of as i was reading that section on how non-magicians could

00:28:57.900 practice in front of people with low stakes let's say you want to get better at public speaking

00:29:02.660 toastmasters we had a guest on the show wrote a book about toastmasters great place to go everyone's

00:29:08.340 there to get better and give you feedback there's no stakes involved but he found that actually doing

00:29:13.740 the public speaking that's how he got better at it so you can do the same thing as a regular person

00:29:18.460 that a magician does correct correct you get good at something by doing it i mean it's as simple as

00:29:22.240 that there's no real substitute for what pen gillette often calls flight time on stage you know as a

00:29:29.540 pilot you get your pilot's license by the number of hours you've flown and the same thing with skydiving

00:29:35.220 right you know by the number of jumps you've done so it's the same thing on stage the more that

00:29:40.480 you're on stage the more you're actually paying yourself to become a better performer all right so

00:29:45.700 the final maxim we just mentioned it a while back ago is be prepared so as a magician what does this

00:29:50.120 look like well you know when i walk into any room the first thing i start to do is i look around and

00:29:56.540 see what's there and i'm a magician so i you know i should be able to do magic with anything so i look

00:30:02.440 around and i see oh here's a salt shaker over there there's a there's a piece of newspaper over here

00:30:07.540 this person's wearing a diamond ring that woman has earrings on this guy's got a a submariner watch

00:30:13.020 and i'm thinking like what can i do with any of those objects and i have a kind of a mental rolodex

00:30:18.480 that i go through and i think okay i know tricks with a watch i know tricks with this salt shaker i

00:30:23.700 know tricks with the newspaper and now i'm starting to formulate things in advance so that when it comes

00:30:28.820 down to the time of performance which may be half an hour from now i'm never caught unaware and that's

00:30:38.200 the beauty of it is that you're kind of i'm a boy scout i was actually an eagle scout when i was younger

00:30:42.520 in troop 174 from yorktown heights new york and so you know the the slogan of the boy scouts is to be

00:30:49.240 prepared and i really think that's key to being a magician having months maybe even years of planning

00:30:56.860 in advance before the audience even knows that there is a performance being given michael weber

00:31:02.720 well-known magician says that you have to be so far ahead of the game that the audience doesn't even

00:31:07.680 know there's a game being played yet and i really love that i think that you have to really just be

00:31:12.160 thinking several steps ahead and what it boils down to is just knowing your audience like when i go into

00:31:18.940 an audience when i'm performing for people i like to know what kind of a crowd this is so maybe in

00:31:25.220 advance i might just look at the sales list for the day and say okay where are these people coming

00:31:29.380 from okay we have people coming from california we have people coming from from france we have people

00:31:34.460 who are visiting from china we've got people who are visiting from the tri-state area it helps me to

00:31:39.180 know the audience in advance and i like to call that the get to know you technique it's just really

00:31:44.400 like you know having a little bit of rapport before the audience realizes that there's a need to have a

00:31:48.780 rapport and that preparation will help you out even before you arrive so you have a chapter that's all

00:31:55.100 about building up conviction and confidence in yourself why is that important for you as a magician

00:32:00.360 in order to win the crowd well i think about it people want to be around people who are confident and who

00:32:08.080 are almost a larger than life i think that it's more interesting to be around people who are sure of

00:32:15.160 themselves right i mean when you walk into any sort of an event or if you're going to be giving a

00:32:20.200 presentation again we don't want someone who is a self-proclaimed failure to be giving us advice

00:32:25.640 we want someone who's going to be you know rather accomplished giving us advice because maybe we might

00:32:31.280 learn something from them you're always more interested in people who are bringing something

00:32:35.440 to the table that we don't personally already have so that's one of the beauties of being a magician

00:32:40.640 is that you know people aren't exposed to magic every day so when they come across someone who's

00:32:46.100 a magician and this person appears to be a good magician then they're probably going to be excited

00:32:52.460 to be with you and that's really what it is it's kind of building up the excitement of being in your

00:32:58.640 presence and you know again you don't want to make it like you're fishing for their their

00:33:03.520 approbation or you want to make it so that they just feel excited to be around you because you seem

00:33:07.760 like a fun person or you seem like an intelligent person or you seem like someone who brings something

00:33:12.060 to their life that they don't already have and how do you develop that confidence and conviction

00:33:17.220 once again it boils down to being sure in your work you know thinking that your own work is important

00:33:23.060 i'll put it this way you know actually there's a great story i'm gonna i'm gonna tell you this

00:33:26.960 story that's it's it's in the book so i'll read it to you uh the way i wrote it it's actually

00:33:30.500 pretty concise so there are three bricklayers and someone asked the three laborers what are you

00:33:36.780 doing and the first bricklayer says i'm laying brick the second bricklayer says i'm making ten

00:33:43.200 dollars an hour but the third bricklayer says me i'm building the world's greatest cathedral

00:33:49.080 and i really love the attitude of that third bricklayer because he knows that his work is

00:33:54.900 important to himself so you know being a magician is not on the highest list of people's prestigious

00:34:02.100 occupations you know i remember going through customs in london one time i was arriving for a

00:34:07.620 performance and the customs agent said to me after looking at my passport what do you do for a living

00:34:12.520 and it said magician and he laughed at me and he pointed at my ski cap and he said what are you going

00:34:16.680 to pull a rabbit out of your ski cap come on what's your real job and i had to tell him i'm really a

00:34:22.040 magician but i'm proud of that and being proud of your work thinking that your work is important

00:34:27.080 thinking that you do a first-rate job that's important you know you can say to yourself even

00:34:31.820 there's like a mantra you can say i am important i perform my work with dignity i do a first-rate job

00:34:37.480 every day and you know it's important to think that your work is important and i whether you're a banker

00:34:43.160 whether you're a salesperson whether you're a performer like me or anything you do you never say i'm

00:34:49.160 just a blank i'm just a clerk i'm just an analyst you know basically you have to put a top hat on

00:34:57.000 your head mentally and think i'm a magician not a literal magician but i do things in a magical way

00:35:03.820 i do things with power i do things with confidence and by telling yourself that you kind of make yourself

00:35:09.080 into a little bit of a celebrity and you know no one wants to walk around thinking like oh i'm an

00:35:14.240 a-list celebrity if you're not but if you think of yourself as someone with power and ability and

00:35:19.940 and maybe even a sense of beauty and and it just builds your own confidence you could do that by

00:35:25.340 dressing a certain way you could do that by speaking with uh you know by puffing up your chest

00:35:29.460 and you know it makes you just feel a little bit more confident and then you'll see the response of

00:35:34.960 people and when people respond that way it kind of is a feedback loop okay so again you kind of do uh

00:35:41.340 you have to maybe suggest yourself don't state to yourself suggest yourself that you are you are

00:35:47.580 confident right so dress the way and act the way exactly you talk about in the book like move like

00:35:52.320 deliberately and with conciseness that can also help bolster your confidence i agree i remember one

00:35:57.360 time i had a uh i had a superintendent in my building in new york city one of my early my first

00:36:03.580 apartments and this guy really did not know what he was doing he was a kind of a bumbling super

00:36:08.740 meaning that he didn't really know how to screw a screw into the into the wall and you know if he

00:36:13.820 was reaching for his screwdriver in the toolkit he didn't even know where it was he had to dig around

00:36:18.000 and find basic tools and then he didn't know where to you know did i have a a phillips head

00:36:23.620 screwdriver or a flathead screw he really was just clueless and i realized i can't trust this man

00:36:29.740 to help me with fixing my sink because it's not going to hold we later on that guy got fired uh not

00:36:36.960 surprise and then they hired a new super and this super was really on top of things so when he

00:36:42.980 reached for the screwdriver it was where he expected it to be and when he was uh putting together the

00:36:48.600 cabinet that i needed him to help me fix you know it went together one two three snip any snap and it

00:36:54.600 had to do with the fact that he was confident and he acted deliberately he knew where things were and

00:36:59.660 it gave me a sense of confidence as you know a resident is in his building so when i'm performing my

00:37:05.520 shows i like to have things always in the same place so if i reach i don't even need to look where

00:37:11.400 my hand is moving i know that an object is where it is because it's always there and i have the luxury

00:37:17.520 of always performing of course in the same venue so you know if i put something down it's going to

00:37:22.640 always be in the same spot i don't have to go fumbling for it or looking for it so the audience sees

00:37:27.320 that i'm a confident person because there's no hiccups i just reach for something it's always there

00:37:33.160 i'm able to do what i do with an intent and what i also like to do and i mentioned this also in the

00:37:38.300 book is to speak to myself is this how an important person would say this or is this how a powerful

00:37:48.080 person would act would my boss act this way would my customer act this way and would a successful

00:37:55.120 person argue over this or not and so by mentally framing these things in your head and then adjusting

00:38:02.460 the way that you speak or presented you're actually leading yourself into a successful

00:38:07.060 path so one of my favorite chapters in the book was all about how to command a room and this is useful

00:38:14.680 advice for someone who's presenting in front of an audience giving a pitch at a business meeting or

00:38:20.940 giving a public speech or i i think it also applied just in everyday social interactions and so this idea

00:38:26.280 of commanding the room the first step you say you have to do as a magician is you have to own the stage

00:38:31.980 as a magician how do you own the stage so that you can command the room what i like to do is first i

00:38:38.620 like to always arrive at the venue early and tread the boards the boards meaning the stage right that's

00:38:46.280 the actor's vernacular for walking onto a stage so i like to walk on the stage and just get the feel

00:38:52.760 for what the space is like how deep is the room how wide is this space do i need to step up steps

00:38:59.920 before i walk onto the stage will there be a backstage area is there a green room i just need

00:39:05.720 to know all about the parameters that i'll be performing in first so that there's no surprises

00:39:11.480 like that's really one of the key things i think about being a pro is reducing the number of surprises

00:39:17.260 in your presentations so that by the time you actually get up there in front of an audience

00:39:22.680 you're able to focus on the people and the interaction and the give and take with your

00:39:28.260 audience as opposed to is this glass of water going to tip over if i move my arm out or does

00:39:33.040 the stage have like a squeaky floor am i going to walk too far towards the audience and possibly fall

00:39:37.440 off stage knowing all these things in advance just reduces the number of variables so that when you get

00:39:43.080 up there you're not going to really be worried too much i think that's really good so i think if you're

00:39:47.840 giving a public speech i think that's useful advice to get up there early know what the stage looks like

00:39:53.320 make sure you know where the podium is going to be and you can even if you want to own the stage you

00:39:57.360 can probably maybe move things around right so i don't like this let's move this around that can help

00:40:02.040 instill some more confidence in you in yourself i agree one way that you can do this even in your own

00:40:08.280 life when you're just sitting at a table let's say you're having a business meeting or business talk at a

00:40:13.080 restaurant so i like to think of the interaction as kind of like a control of the real estate of

00:40:18.640 that table and people don't often think about this but you can move things around on tables that you

00:40:24.220 have more space you can move the glass out of the way you can move the flower vase out of the way you

00:40:29.520 can move the salt shaker out of the way you can move the plates and stack them up you can move the

00:40:33.900 forks so that you have more room and even just subtle things like this show that you're owning your

00:40:39.760 environment so again these are not overt things you don't say like look i'm going to take over

00:40:44.700 this table therefore i own this conversation it's not that overt it never is you know a lot of what

00:40:50.860 being a magician is is about making these implications of power and the implication of power

00:40:57.160 then kind of gives a little bit of a hint or a clue for someone to respond to you just that little

00:41:02.660 bit differently so i do this oftentimes you know i'll make the space mine and by making the space mine

00:41:09.420 i just feel like there's less that's going to impede me from moving forward in the way i planned

00:41:15.160 so i think that's a little tiny tip that you can try it doesn't cost you anything right when you're

00:41:20.620 at a restaurant you know just try that even when you're out with on a date or you're with your

00:41:24.220 family it doesn't take any extra effort but you might just feel a little different and a little

00:41:28.280 more powerful because you've done something to create your own space now when i walk on stage you

00:41:34.300 asked about how do you command the room i have ways of walking in that i use and i've learned this

00:41:39.840 again from my teacher juan tamariz who's a teacher not only to me but to thousands of magicians around

00:41:45.240 the world but has fortunately become a personal friend so tamariz taught this great technique when

00:41:51.140 you walk on stage to fan the room with your eyes now what does that mean so usually when you walk on

00:41:57.480 you're not walking on from the back of the auditorium or back of the audience towards the front

00:42:00.880 you're walking on from the side right you have to let's say the audience is in front of you

00:42:04.220 you're walking on to stage from either left stage for stage left or stage right and so let's say

00:42:09.180 you're walking on from stage right so you're walking on up maybe a few steps or maybe just you know onto

00:42:15.280 the stage and the audience will see your profile if you're looking at stage left they'll only see your

00:42:23.240 profile but wouldn't it be great if every person can see the front of your face a full frontal view

00:42:29.220 to give your smile a chance to shine well the way that you do that is when you're walking on stage

00:42:36.140 you start looking at the audience that's furthest to your left if you're starting from the right

00:42:40.720 and then as you get to the center stage you fan your face meaning you turn your head

00:42:46.280 all the way towards the area where you walked on so you're giving the entire almost 180 degree

00:42:52.880 circle or half circle of your face to the entire audience and they're now able to see you and

00:43:00.160 experience you with your smile and your light in your eyes rather than just your profile and it just

00:43:05.820 gives you a more of a connection right away there's an interesting thing i didn't write about in this

00:43:10.380 book but i've learned since is if you watch a mickey mouse cartoon like anything for you know

00:43:15.920 walt disney you know animation you'll see that mickey mouse's ears are always full circles or often

00:43:23.980 full circles i'm sure there's exemptions to this but oftentimes what happens even if he turns his

00:43:29.000 head left or turns his head right you'll still see these full circles of his ears because that's the

00:43:33.340 iconic mickey mouse pose and face and image and icon that we've become familiar with so you know

00:43:39.740 it's in a similar way imagine if you're able to show your face to every audience every part of the

00:43:44.060 audience no matter where they're seated in the left right middle back center when you walk on that's

00:43:49.880 how you do that by fanning the room well another tip that i liked in there about walking on to the

00:43:55.440 stage is that you don't start from a dead stop you actually start walking when you're off stage so that

00:44:01.680 when you hit on stage it looks more like you're floating and not sort of getting started and that it

00:44:07.440 just adds some dynamism to your presence right so one of the things i like to call it is the invisible

00:44:12.680 steps so so again if let's say that you're walking on stage from behind a curtain rather than just

00:44:18.040 standing still and then walking on which means that you're kind of ramping up to your full speed and

00:44:24.180 your full kind of energy take a couple of steps back from the curtain and start the advancement onto

00:44:31.640 stage from several feet away from the edge of the stage so by the time that you hit the curtain and

00:44:37.160 you've broken the curtain line now the audience sees you coming out in a powerful and energetic way

00:44:42.660 now i learned this the hard way from being on the david letterman show i was a guest on letterman

00:44:47.400 when he had close-up magic week and if you haven't seen my performance of that on youtube you should

00:44:51.960 check it out it was a really great experience but i remember standing backstage i was kind of

00:44:56.720 petrified because this is you know the ed sullivan theater i'm backstage this is where the beatles

00:45:01.540 performed i mean come on i was you know pretty intimidated and biff henderson who is the stage

00:45:08.140 manager he shoved my shoulder when it was time for me to walk on so i heard letterman say ladies and

00:45:14.200 gentlemen please welcome steve cohen and then biff henderson shoves me and my first step onto the

00:45:20.300 stage was a stumble and i stumbled on and then kind of got my pace and kept on walking to center stage 0.52

00:45:26.400 so why am i telling you this it looked stupid and i mean maybe it didn't really feel that or didn't 0.85

00:45:32.100 look that bad to the viewer at home but when i look at it i was like man i did not have control 0.96

00:45:37.000 over that entrance someone else controlled the entrance for me and that's not how i want to walk

00:45:41.880 on stage so now i have this solid rule that by the time they see me break into the spotlight i'm

00:45:49.500 walking in in full energy capacity and i think that's done by taking a few steps off stage before

00:45:56.080 entering on stage so in a magic show there's the trick itself right and that's the technique is

00:46:01.480 important but an important part to make the trick work is the patter like the words you're using while

00:46:06.320 you're doing the trick because it's going to help direct people's attention where you want it to be

00:46:10.280 and it also just makes it more engaging in the book you give some specific things that you do when

00:46:14.900 you're writing your patter your script to be persuaded so i like some of these things were

00:46:19.860 interesting like one is you used what's called layered commands so instead of saying to someone

00:46:25.720 here hold this card uh you'll say stand up and hold this card there's two commands there stand up

00:46:32.720 and hold this card what is it about putting two commands that helps you be more persuasive as a

00:46:37.020 magician and people think that patter is just you know the banter the idle language that magicians

00:46:43.500 use to kind of distract you from what's really happening but the fact is it's all serving the end

00:46:50.620 purpose of a successful demonstration of magic is that the language has to support the magic

00:46:56.560 the handling and the handling has to support the language they have to really coexist in like kind

00:47:02.180 of a symbiosis so there's no magic words like alakazam or hocus pocus or abracadabra that will

00:47:09.640 really create magic but there are patterns of language that you can use even if you're not a magician

00:47:15.920 to kind of create a magical outcome so this concept of a layered command which is basically

00:47:22.980 a command the word and and another command it makes it harder for people to say no to either

00:47:28.540 one of those two commands so for example if i were to say to you stand up it's easy for you to resist

00:47:33.800 and say well no why and if i were to say here hold the end of this rope the person says well why what

00:47:40.520 am i going to what do you want me to do they can resist it but if i say stand up and hold the end of

00:47:44.880 this rope people will not really deny either of those they'll simply stand up and hold the rope

00:47:50.180 and it's kind of uncanny it's something you should really give a try to i mean you can try it again

00:47:55.040 not just if you're a magician because most people listening to this aren't magicians but you could

00:47:59.240 try it let's say with your kid you know if you could say you know take out the garbage and close the

00:48:03.640 door when you go out and so take out the garbage they might say no to close the door behind you when

00:48:08.700 they go out they might say no to but take out the garbage and close the door it's like okay

00:48:13.600 there's two commands it's almost short circuits the ability to say no on you know in the office

00:48:20.100 you know finish this project and let me know when you're done they're not going to not finish the

00:48:24.360 project they're not going to not let you know when you're done because you've given them two

00:48:27.240 commands you know come over here and give me a kiss by the way don't use that at the office 0.77

00:48:31.700 you're on a date come over here and give me a kiss you know these are small little things you

00:48:36.080 can try now does it work every time no but will it work yes and you know it's actually fun to try

00:48:44.840 these layered commands and see what works for you nothing is an exact science but it could work and

00:48:53.360 when it does work it actually you can see if you can make it work again because you know what works

00:48:58.100 for you is not going to work for me and vice versa so you give these these layered commands it'll give

00:49:03.900 you the feeling of being an authority figure it helps you appear stronger and yeah i think that's

00:49:09.120 a really fun one to try now another magic word so to speak which i might recommend your listeners use

00:49:15.080 if you want to give this try yourself uh brett it might be fun is to use what i call the trailing

00:49:20.060 or and i use this all the time in my work and anyone could use this it's not just limited to magicians

00:49:26.560 i say would you like to shuffle the deck or and then it's just dot dot dot now the answer at that

00:49:34.200 point would likely be no so i say would you like to shuffle the deck of cards or and the reason is

00:49:42.320 because in people's heads they're finishing the sentence the last word would be not right so would

00:49:48.120 you like to shuffle the deck or not but since i never say the word not they say out loud no so that's

00:49:56.540 where it starts to become an interesting thing would you mind if i eat the last piece of pizza or

00:50:00.920 and people say no go ahead you know will there be a problem with that or

00:50:06.760 and the people would say no no no there's no problem do you mind if i leave a little early or

00:50:13.080 you see people that say sure you know it just feels like the natural ending to the sentence

00:50:18.700 not and since people are saying it in their own head they just will say no now if you shrug your

00:50:24.260 shoulders a little bit and kind of like you know shake your head no as you're saying it

00:50:27.360 it also kind of gives them more of an incentive to respond no and it just try this i'm telling you

00:50:34.640 it's a it's a fun project to try on your own you could just drop it in today to your conversation

00:50:39.640 and see if it actually works in your favor well steve this has been a great conversation where can

00:50:45.220 people go to learn more about your work well let me tell you a little secret

00:50:49.480 oh that's another go to that's another chambermagic.com that's that's one of my other magic

00:50:55.240 words the moment you say let me tell you a little secret people will lean in they're going to now

00:50:59.920 want to know what your secret is so even if you're not a magician again like you everyone's got a

00:51:05.060 secret right we all have secrets that we don't want people to know to see you know so so if you

00:51:10.120 say to someone let me tell you a little secret i really shouldn't tell you this but promise me you

00:51:13.680 won't tell this to anyone but you can find more about me at chambermagic.com right so now people

00:51:19.460 are like oh wow this is something that you know we weren't supposed to hear we weren't supposed to

00:51:22.660 know about you know when people say let me tell you a secret it means pay attention so i like to use

00:51:28.740 that expression a lot by the way the show runs every weekend at the lote new york palace hotel which is a

00:51:35.140 really grand hotel in the middle of new york city the show runs 250 live performances every year so i'm

00:51:42.040 always there uh every friday and every saturday and it's a really fun place if you do come to the

00:51:47.420 show please don't hesitate to walk up and tap me on the shoulder and say that you heard about it from

00:51:52.660 this conversation i love to meet people before during and after the show and as you can see i'm

00:51:57.740 yeah i try to be as personable and as as welcoming as i can to anyone who comes so please if you do come

00:52:03.960 let me know that you heard about it from this and maybe they can uh try to put a quarter in your

00:52:07.700 pocket too while they're absolutely that's the thing definitely drop a quarter in my pocket i will

00:52:11.560 act surprised well steve cohen thanks for your time it's been a pleasure my pleasure thanks for

00:52:16.240 inviting me my guest it was steve cohen he's the author of the book win the crowd it's available

00:52:20.880 on amazon.com you can find more information about his work at his website chambermagic.com

00:52:25.460 also check out our show notes at aom.is slash win the crowd where you find links to resources

00:52:29.840 we delve deeper into this topic

00:52:31.260 well that wraps up another edition of the aom podcast make sure to check out our website at

00:52:42.300 art of manless.com where you find our podcast archives as well as thousands of articles that

00:52:45.920 we've written over the years about pretty much anything you think of and if you'd like to enjoy

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00:53:00.840 and if you haven't done so already i'd appreciate if you take one minute to give you an apple podcast

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00:53:08.500 show with a friend or family member who you think will get something out of it as always thank you

00:53:12.460 for the continued support until next time's brett mckay reminding you to not listen that way on podcast

00:53:16.180 but put what you've heard into action

00:53:18.100 you

The Art of Manliness - June 05, 2023

Magician's Secrets for Becoming More Commanding, Convincing, And Charismatic

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