The Art of Manliness - Men Don't Run in the Rain — And 7 Other Essential Lessons for Being a Man

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00:00:50.120 Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:00:53.680 When Rick Burgess was growing up, his father, Bill Burgess, was also his football coach. But Bill

00:00:59.640 was a mentor on and off the field, not only for his own son, but for the many young men he coached

00:01:04.140 at both the high school and collegiate level. Though Bill has passed on, his lessons remain

00:01:08.640 timeless and valuable for all men. Today on the show, Rick shares some of his old school wisdom

00:01:13.280 with us. Rick is a radio host, a men's ministry leader, and the author of Men Don't Run in the Rain,

00:01:18.860 a son's reflections on life, faith, and an iconic father. In our conversation, he discusses what his

00:01:24.980 dad taught him through football and beyond, including why men don't run in the rain, and why 0.99

00:01:28.980 you need to get out of the stands, avoid being stupid, refuse to rest on your laurels, understand 0.99

00:01:33.720 the difference between confidence and arrogance, and take full responsibility for your life without 1.00

00:01:37.600 making excuses. We also talk about how Rick drew upon his father's wisdom when tragedy struck his

00:01:42.060 life. After the show is over, check out our show notes at awimp.is slash rain.

00:01:46.260 All right. Rick Burgess, welcome to the show.

00:02:02.100 Thanks for having me, Brad. Excited to talk about this topic today because this is one that you and

00:02:08.040 I both have a lot of passion about.

00:02:09.520 No, for sure. So you got a new book out. It's called Men Don't Run in the Rain, a son's reflections

00:02:15.040 on life, faith, and an iconic father. And this book is all about your father and college football

00:02:20.920 coach, Bill Burgess. So your dad, he was a football coach in Alabama. He played football for Auburn from

00:02:26.640 1958 to 1962. After that, he became a high school football coach and athletic director. He coached at

00:02:33.060 Woodlawn High School and Oxford High School there in Alabama. Then he became the coach of Jacksonville

00:02:39.180 State University. Had a lot of success there. He took his team to three national division two

00:02:43.960 championships, won one of those, won multiple Gulf South conference titles. He was named national

00:02:49.660 coach of the year, was inducted into the Alabama Sports Hall of Fame. So he had a very successful

00:02:54.820 coaching career. And it seems like your dad, he was born to coach. Like this was his calling and he

00:03:01.200 filled it. Yeah. There's people that maybe want to be a coach and you just put it best, Brett. Then

00:03:05.980 there's people that were born to coach and he just, because it came so natural to him, it was kind of

00:03:12.520 like breathing. I don't think he even put a lot of effort into saying, I must do this and I have to do

00:03:18.400 that. And I think it's just what he was born to do. And he was one of those people that if he came

00:03:23.440 into a room, he would influence people whether you wanted him to or not. What I love about this book

00:03:28.500 is, you know, we were talking before we got on the show. I played high school football here in

00:03:33.380 Oklahoma and your dad, he just, he reminded me of some of the football coaches that I had.

00:03:38.960 And you know, his, his sayings that he had is like witty one-liners that he had without even

00:03:43.820 trying to be witty the way he carried himself. And I love how you start the book, this physical

00:03:48.800 description you give your dad, because I think it really captures the way he dressed and carried

00:03:55.300 himself. It captures his philosophy towards coaching in life. So what was the Bill Burgess uniform

00:04:00.400 that you, you knew that like that, that's dad. When you think about your dad, that's what you

00:04:04.340 remember. Yeah. You know, he just was, um, you know, he wasn't really, when I look back, he wasn't,

00:04:10.040 I don't think over six foot tall, but he seemed like he was, you know, seven feet tall, but he was

00:04:15.160 very muscular and, you know, he, he was old school. So he always had the trucker cap on with the team

00:04:21.400 logo, you know, right on the front. He wore a coach's shirt, you know, the standard with the team

00:04:26.740 logo, you know, the insignia on the, on the left chest. And, and, and then he would wear these black

00:04:32.920 coaching shoes. You probably remember these, Brett, they were, I think Rydell made them.

00:04:36.940 Yeah. They were black. And then of course he would do tube socks, of course. And he would pull those

00:04:41.960 up to his massive calves, which were legendary, legendary. And those calves would kind of break

00:04:46.540 the elastic, elastic of the tube socks. And then the, the socks would fall down, you know, around his

00:04:51.380 ankles, never staying up. And then of course he had his whistle on, you know, had kind of a piece

00:04:57.140 of leather around it and it had a whistle. And then on the end of the whistle was athletic tape.

00:05:02.200 My dad believed that athletic tape could cure any problem. And of course it would have that on the

00:05:07.260 end, tobacco juice, and sometimes blood would be stained on the athletic tape. And then of course,

00:05:12.880 the final part of the uniform was always the bike coaching shorts. Uh, they were super,

00:05:19.400 super tight and that's the way he was standing in that Alabama sun. He, he was just the iconic

00:05:25.880 portrait of those classic football coaches from that era that had influence on everybody they

00:05:31.240 coached. How do you think that exemplifies his philosophy or sort of his stance towards life?

00:05:36.060 You know, dad was always about keeping it simple. He probably was one of the most humble people

00:05:41.160 that I've ever known for the, you know, considering the leadership role that he was constantly being put

00:05:46.340 in and the accolades and, and he was never an I person. He was always a wee person. He always

00:05:53.400 complimented the staff, complimented the players, everybody who worked, the equipment person, you

00:05:58.780 know, the trainers, the, you know, the janitor, you know, whatever the case may be. And so I think

00:06:04.400 if you looked at the way he dressed, he dressed in a way that shouldn't really, it did, but it

00:06:10.100 shouldn't have really, the intent was not to bring attention to himself. He felt like if I was going to be

00:06:14.960 coaching, this is the things I need to coach. And I'm certainly not trying to make a fashion

00:06:19.300 statement or bring any attention to myself. I'm here to work.

00:06:22.560 It made me want to go get some bike shorts for myself.

00:06:25.240 Oh goodness. Could we bring them back?

00:06:27.020 Let's bring them back.

00:06:27.820 Could we bring them back?

00:06:28.900 I think that's the next trend that's going to happen here. Coach bike shorts.

00:06:31.880 All right. So let's talk about some of these lessons that you, you highlight in the book.

00:06:35.200 And the first lesson that you highlight that you got from your dad was, it's the title of the book,

00:06:40.420 men don't run in the rain. It's very evocative phrase. What does that mean?

00:06:44.140 You know, it meant more than what it literally means. You know, I, in the intro, I tell you the

00:06:50.460 story about me being with my dad and I knew it was actually one of my friends, you know, dad was,

00:06:56.240 this doesn't surprise you. He was our biological father, but he was a father figure for so many

00:07:02.800 of our friends. And of course the multiple players that he coached because they either didn't have a

00:07:07.200 father at all, or they may have had fathers that were not great people, you know? And so dad became

00:07:14.560 kind of a pseudo father for many. And one of my best friends in school and in growing up, his father,

00:07:21.980 you know, was not involved in his life and unfortunately was actually eventually murdered.

00:07:25.940 And so, you know, he looked to dad as his dad. He was at our house all the time.

00:07:30.420 And he was the first one that said to me when we were little boys, we weren't very old and he saw

00:07:36.820 dad and a, and a downpour and dad wasn't running. He was just walking methodically. He wasn't, you

00:07:43.560 know, picking up his pace. He wasn't slowing down. He was just, the rain wasn't really hitting him.

00:07:49.580 And he looked at me and he said, your dad doesn't run in the rain. And I thought, no, okay. And I didn't

00:07:55.200 think anything much about it. And maybe dad's just odd. I didn't know. So when I got a little older,

00:08:01.400 somewhere around 12, 13, something like that, I was leaving his office. And one of those classic

00:08:08.340 Alabama afternoon downpours came, you know, with the daily thunderstorm with all the humidity.

00:08:14.440 And so I went to run to his, uh, to his truck and he put his arm out and he, and he stopped me

00:08:20.300 and he says, no, men don't run in the rain. And I remember thinking to myself, I don't think I

00:08:27.400 fully grasp it, but almost what he was saying is men should never be frantic. Men should not

00:08:34.620 make a big deal out of things that aren't a big deal. It's just rain. And I don't want to see you

00:08:40.840 nor any man scurrying like the rain falling on them is going to hurt them. And he said, we, we walk to

00:08:48.560 the truck and he's teaching something there about steadiness. He's teaching something there about

00:08:56.140 not being fearful of things that we shouldn't be afraid of. He's speaking about a confidence,

00:09:03.100 a calm that a man should bring to a chaotic situation. So he was saying something much bigger

00:09:10.280 and it took me a while to realize that, but I see now he was starting to teach that as soon as he could.

00:09:14.940 Yeah. That, uh, that phrase, that advice, men don't run in the rain. It reminds me of this

00:09:19.720 Nassim Taleb quote. Are you familiar with Nassim Taleb, uh, anti-fragile black swan? He's just like

00:09:23.780 economist guy. Sure. But he has this line, I don't run for trains. And I think it's very similar.

00:09:29.620 And he says this about why he doesn't run for trains. He says, I have felt the true value of

00:09:33.840 elegance and aesthetics and behavior, a sense of being in control of my time, my schedule and my life.

00:09:39.300 And also you just, yeah. So it's just like your, your dad didn't run in the rain because he was in

00:09:43.620 control. Even if this is the rain's happening, no big deal. I'm still in charge. Nassim Taleb

00:09:47.860 doesn't run for trains because first off, you just, you look kind of silly when you're running 0.77

00:09:52.060 in the rain or running for a train, but also just, it asserts your agency. Hey, you know what?

00:09:56.400 This doesn't bother me. That's exactly right. And I think sometimes that's what's missing

00:10:01.060 in our homes. I'd say, I always had this sense that as long as this man was, was here,

00:10:07.560 then we're good. And if I had looked up and never saw him panic in situations, you know,

00:10:14.000 that might've been fearful or scary, it would have caused the entire family to lose all hope.

00:10:19.500 You know, almost he was a, a calming factor, a steadiness, a foundation in his family's life.

00:10:26.240 And you're right. They're both saying the same thing. If we cast a different vision,

00:10:30.220 it doesn't just affect us. It's not about them. It's the impact it has on all those you influence.

00:10:35.280 All right. So you actually played for your dad when he was a high school coach at Oxford.

00:10:40.420 What was that like?

00:10:42.140 You know, my dad was probably the best that I ever have seen or heard of. You know, when you

00:10:49.080 see all these movies, anytime there's the, here's the authoritative dad and he's a coach in his kids

00:10:56.020 and, and then he makes them run sprints, you know, like the great Santini, you know, that Pat talked

00:11:01.440 about in his famous book that went on to be a movie. You know, it wasn't that at all. Dad really

00:11:06.620 separated the fact that he was the coach and that he was our father. He never mixed the two.

00:11:13.120 It wasn't any harder on us than it was anybody else who played for him. It wasn't any easier on us.

00:11:20.080 Our playing time was earned. That was understood. Now I probably, the only thing that was a little bit

00:11:25.560 different because, and I understand his caution on this is he had to be careful about patting us on

00:11:31.760 the back publicly, you know, in interviews and things like that. I think that was difficult for

00:11:36.760 him. And I think at times he might've said, maybe you and your brother deserved, he was more apt to

00:11:42.840 do it for my brother than me because of our personalities. But, uh, is that maybe there were

00:11:48.000 times that I could have gotten a pat on the back publicly about a game. And if he wasn't my dad,

00:11:54.040 the coach probably would have done more of, but that was no big deal because we didn't have any of

00:11:58.860 the, the bad stuff, you know, Hey, I didn't like the way you played today. What were you doing in

00:12:03.520 practice? Get out in the yard and let me show you again how to do that. There was none of that.

00:12:08.240 Even if there was something wrong with the team and he was at home and we were eating dinner,

00:12:13.520 he would never bring it up. And then we got back to the field the next day, he'd bring it up.

00:12:17.820 So he, he never mixed the two and never made it weird. And playing for my dad was actually a very

00:12:24.320 positive experience. And I'm glad I got to do it. I think there's a lesson right there for men

00:12:29.360 learning how to separate work from home. A lot of guys, they bring work home, all the stress

00:12:33.920 and whatnot, just makes their family miserable. And that's a skill. Like I think it's a skill you

00:12:38.040 have to practice and develop. It doesn't just happen. I don't think. No, I think he was intentional

00:12:42.800 about it. I think it would have embarrassed him if he'd had done it any other way. And I think he found

00:12:47.200 him and there were some of these men around like through youth league and things like that.

00:12:51.420 And I remember dad was always repulsed by the little league dad that my dad was not a huge

00:12:56.480 fan of little league. He didn't keep us from playing it and he didn't try to encourage us

00:13:01.000 to play it. But he, he knew that there were a lot of men that were putting themselves in

00:13:05.260 positions with influence over boys that probably were not going to be a great influence. Luckily,

00:13:11.380 I had a dad that could kind of offset that, but I remember him being very repulsed by the coach

00:13:16.680 dad that was screaming at his son on the mound, you know, and the son's obviously upset. And,

00:13:22.340 you know, here's this dad who's coaching the whole team and he's, you know, focused on traumatizing

00:13:28.360 his son and in front of everybody. And my dad really, really disliked that.

00:13:33.240 So one of the lessons you learned from your dad when you played for him was nobody cares

00:13:38.320 about last year. What's the story behind that lesson?

00:13:42.240 Yeah, my dad ran a program and you being from Oklahoma, you know, you saw big programs and

00:13:46.860 it was very rare that there would be someone younger than a junior to actually play and

00:13:53.660 be in the starting lineup. And in those days, and I've even seen in my home state of Alabama,

00:13:58.120 this has changed a lot. Even the biggest schools will still, you know, take what we used to

00:14:02.880 call the B team. Some people call it junior varsity and they combine them, you know, and I've

00:14:08.280 always wondered why that is because, you know, dad didn't have near the coaching staff as these big

00:14:12.460 schools have now in high school, but he still made sure the B team had its own coach, had its own

00:14:18.120 practices, its own games. You didn't practice with the varsity and then go play like I saw my son's

00:14:24.420 doing even at big schools. So he didn't do it that way. And so for you to be on the team as a

00:14:30.440 sophomore, be on the varsity was almost unheard of. So the year that I was coming up, I had four

00:14:37.860 other friends that were, we were sophomores that had had good, we were always playing a year ahead

00:14:42.700 and his senior class that year was, was weak and the numbers were weak. Their win loss record wasn't

00:14:50.240 very good. And so he pulled five sophomores up to the varsity, which was unheard of. And I got to start,

00:14:57.940 he was not my position coach, but the position coach may be the starter. So I had a good year

00:15:02.960 for a sophomore. And so I was coming back my junior year going, well, I know who's the starting

00:15:08.560 defensive tackle. I know what that is. And so the first play of the two a day practices

00:15:15.400 for the new season, my junior year, he erupted and he pulled me out of the lineup. They told me to go

00:15:22.600 sit on the bench and they were going to get somebody in there that was ready to play, that was hungry.

00:15:26.360 And then as that player is running on the field, he walks over to me as I'm confused and standing

00:15:32.220 on the sideline. And he said, nobody cares what you did last year. And if you think you're going

00:15:37.600 to come out here and start on what you did last year, he said, nobody cares what you did last

00:15:41.880 year. That's in that year. And today is a whole new day. And you're going to have to earn the starting

00:15:46.720 position on this team, just as if you've never played it down for me. And I even remember thinking,

00:15:53.420 Brett, I don't think I was given a bad effort, but he knew that was his opportunity and he was not

00:16:01.060 going to let a sophomore's head blow up and was never going to make me think or anyone on that

00:16:07.320 field that you played for any other reason than you earned it. And he was letting me know that if I

00:16:13.780 phoned it in and leaned on last year, that I would probably find myself on the bench.

00:16:18.440 How have you carried that lesson over to other areas of your life beyond football?

00:16:22.880 Yeah. I mean, I don't want to get overly spiritual, even though the book does have a spiritual

00:16:27.960 component to it, as you saw. But I think a lot of times people in men in their spiritual life,

00:16:33.940 in their careers or whatever, you know, it's sad for me to think that a man ever has already lived

00:16:41.820 his best year. You know, I'm 60 years old as I'm talking to you. And I remember doing the research

00:16:47.520 and somebody making me aware of it asked me, had I seen it? And I said, I had not. And I found out

00:16:53.000 that research shows that if a man has his mental and physical health, that 60 to 70 is the most

00:16:59.440 influential decade of his entire life. Well, if I've maxed out in high school and want to tell you

00:17:06.360 about me making all state in high school for the rest of my life. And I'm doing that to the point

00:17:11.280 that I'm not even remotely attempting to accomplish something right now. I use the example in the book

00:17:17.180 of Philip, you know, when he had the Ethiopian and he had this big moment where he baptizes this

00:17:23.040 Ethiopian and interprets, you know, the book of Isaiah. And I said, you know, a lot of people would

00:17:28.440 have just the rest of their life, they would have been Philip. And that would have been the last thing

00:17:32.840 you ever heard. But it says in scripture that Philip immediately left that area and began talking

00:17:38.560 to other people about Christ and interpreting scripture for them. He didn't rest on the Ethiopian

00:17:44.040 story. And I think a lot of times men tell these same stories when there's a lot of life left as if

00:17:50.940 they've maxed out. You know, that that was my greatest moment. And I think it also makes us lazy,

00:17:56.240 you know, that we think, well, I've done enough. And that's not true. I mean, until we take our last

00:18:01.640 breath, there's still value to our lives and we should be having impact and influence and making

00:18:09.160 a difference. And dad was teaching me a life lesson that you don't rest on your laurels. I mean,

00:18:14.400 nobody cares what you did in 1982. What are you doing in 2025, 2026? Yeah, that idea that when you're

00:18:23.020 60, you still might have 20 years left. That's a long time to get a lot done. And just that idea that

00:18:28.440 you can still keep doing things and trying to be better reminded me of a conversation I had a

00:18:33.680 while back ago with Cynthia Covey. She's the daughter of Stephen Covey of Seven Habits of

00:18:38.440 Highly Effective People fame. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she finished a book that her father had

00:18:42.300 started. You know, he passed away and then she finished it. It's called Living Life in Conscendo.

00:18:46.840 And it's all about your most important work is always ahead of you. And she talked about how her

00:18:50.720 father, like this is a guy who has written one of the most influential, you know, self-help books

00:18:55.760 in history. But he always thought, like, I can do something better than that. And he was always

00:19:01.940 striving more. And he says, you know, I might not be as well known for my later work as I was with

00:19:07.000 Seven Habits, but I still got something important to do. And I got to keep working that. And he was

00:19:11.400 doing that until his dying day. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, even in my, at 60, you know, I did the same

00:19:18.920 radio show for 31 years. And, you know, when that show ended in December and I sensed that it was time

00:19:26.860 for it to end, I thought its best days were behind him. And I started getting a feeling that we were

00:19:32.800 an oldies act. We were starting to rest on the things we'd done in the past. And we had a very

00:19:37.240 successful career. And, you know, I decided that it was time for me to do something different. So,

00:19:43.060 I mean, literally, I've been, you know, as you and I are doing this interview, I'm four or five

00:19:49.180 months into, you know, a brand new show and I host a radio show for my day job. And I'm loving it. And

00:19:55.820 I mean, I'm talking about, like, in January, I was sitting down listening to research. They put

00:20:02.460 research in the field. I wanted to know what I was doing poorly, what I could do better. And it would

00:20:07.880 have been real easy, you know, to be at 60, say, hey, I've been in radio for over 40 years. Y'all have

00:20:12.980 nothing to tell me. But that's not true. I mean, I still need to bang on my craft and continue to

00:20:19.520 get better at what I do. And as you just stated, I don't know that I'll be remembered in my industry

00:20:25.560 as much for what I'm doing now as what I did in the past. But if I'm looking in the mirror and I

00:20:31.320 think I'm better at what I was doing and I'm actually doing this job better, then that's good

00:20:36.580 enough for me because I think that I can still improve. There's no doubt about that. But am I

00:20:42.820 willing to improve? You know, you could come to the reality you could still improve and still be

00:20:46.800 too lazy that you won't do it. Not only do I know I can improve, I am trying to improve,

00:20:52.460 which is the second half of it. I love this lesson, other lesson you got from your dad, because

00:20:56.860 my dad told this to me. I had football coaches say the same to me. And I've told this exact same 0.51

00:21:03.060 thing. I coached flag football for my son and his team. I said the same thing to my flag football

00:21:08.680 players that I coach. Don't be stupid. What did your dad mean by being stupid? 1.00

00:21:16.180 You know, my dad was obsessed with removing all stupidity from the planet. He hated for you to do 1.00

00:21:24.640 stupid things. And then he had all these analogies, you know, if I'd ordered a truckload of stupid 1.00

00:21:29.620 people and all I got was you, I would have got my money's worth, which is one of my favorites. 0.99

00:21:33.560 But, um, you know, dad thought that a lot of things in life could be avoided if you just wouldn't be 1.00

00:21:38.660 stupid. I mean, what you just decided to do was stupid. And if you would minimize the stupid things 1.00

00:21:45.880 in your life, you know, for instance, you know, it's third down, it is third and long. Okay. And 0.99

00:21:52.880 they throw a pass, you know, for eight yards when they needed 12, but I tee off on the quarterback

00:21:58.100 late and now they get an automatic first down. That's stupid. I mean, we had this handled if you 1.00

00:22:03.660 had just not been stupid. And he, he would say things like be smart. Hey, be smart. Like if he 1.00

00:22:09.240 saw us, you know, starting to elevate a little bit, you know, on the field, you got to think this

00:22:13.620 through, be smart right here. You know, Hey, they're probably going to go on too. Are they going to

00:22:18.660 change the cadence? If it's fourth down and a half a yard, you can bet they're going to try to draw you

00:22:23.200 off sides. Don't be stupid and jump. You can actually watch the ball. You shouldn't even be 1.00

00:22:28.100 listening to what the quarterback is saying because we move on the ball. It's stupid to listen to him. 1.00

00:22:33.720 And a lot of these things were very simplistic. And that's why he marveled that we would still do 1.00

00:22:38.960 them when it seems so obvious that these were bad decisions. No, I think, yeah, you're right. Like

00:22:43.300 a lot of the problems that people have in life are just the result of being stupid. No doubt. I mean, 1.00

00:22:49.020 I look back at my life and the problems that I have brought on myself really it's because I just 0.94

00:22:54.680 made a stupid decision that far outweighs anything that happened to me that I said, I don't think I 0.95

00:22:59.240 had anything to do with that. You know, a lot of it is just, if I had just made a, a just stopped 1.00

00:23:04.700 and said, let me use logic, which is, you know, now common sense is a superpower. Let me just think

00:23:11.660 this through and just don't be stupid. It reminds me of a Charlie Munger quote. Uh, he says it is 1.00

00:23:18.220 remarkable how much long-term advantage people like us have gotten by trying to be consistently 0.98

00:23:23.340 not stupid instead of trying to be very intelligent. That's good. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. And, and I 0.98

00:23:30.920 tell the story about us setting, you know, the, the woods behind our house on fire by just being 1.00

00:23:35.540 stupid. We thought that we would take dried out pine limbs and suddenly we could turn those into 0.97

00:23:41.040 torches like we saw in all the adventure movies, you know, where they've always got a torch. And so we

00:23:46.460 thought let's make torches out of dried out Alabama sun, dried out pine. You know, there's nothing

00:23:52.960 more flammable than pine straw. So let's pick up limbs that are brown and let's light them and

00:23:58.780 pretend like we have torches in the woods in a drought. That's just stupid, you know? And then 1.00

00:24:04.400 of course it didn't take long for somebody to go, Oh, mine nearly burned me and threw it over

00:24:07.840 to not be burned. And then it set that on fire and off we go.

00:24:11.040 How do you not be stupid? Like, let's say you're a 40 year old guy and you feel like, 1.00

00:24:16.060 I mean, am I being stupid? Like, how do you know, how do you stop being stupid? 1.00

00:24:20.080 Well, I think the first thing we need to do is to not make decisions without, you know, 1.00

00:24:25.680 there's, have you ever heard the, um, the term? And I know it's been used quite a bit. If you take

00:24:30.420 a rifle, let's ready ourselves, let's aim, and then let's pull the trigger. Well, a lot of times

00:24:36.540 somebody will shoot ready aim. I'm just squeezing the trigger and I didn't take any time to think

00:24:40.660 about what I'm doing. So a lot of times, if you'll just stop for a minute and go, okay,

00:24:44.940 I'm thinking about taking action on this. Let me, let me go ahead and look ahead of that potential

00:24:51.900 regret. Okay. If I had not done this, then I wouldn't be sitting in the situation I'm in right

00:24:57.100 now. A lot of things are avoidable in life. If you'll just stop for a minute, reason it out

00:25:02.940 and then take action. We tend to take action, then think about it later. And that's a huge mistake.

00:25:08.540 You know, the five P's prior planning prevents poor performance, you know, maybe do a little

00:25:13.080 more thinking and a little less reacting. Yeah. Something that I told my players when I coach

00:25:19.020 them and I tell it to my kids too. It's like one of those things I'm trying to get into their head.

00:25:22.620 I want them to develop this stance towards life. It's just situational awareness, pay attention to

00:25:27.180 what's going on around you. I feel like a lot of the mistakes that happen on the field, or even when

00:25:31.940 your kids do something stupid, they just weren't paying attention. They weren't just kind of off 0.99

00:25:35.920 in la-la land. And I'm like, Hey, just keep your head on a swivel, pay attention to what's going on,

00:25:40.760 know your business so that you can make good decisions. It's a tough lesson to teach young

00:25:45.540 people. It is. And do you think too, Brett, when you think about this, another thing I would say

00:25:48.880 is look at the history of people who made this same decision. You know, I can't tell you how many

00:25:54.040 times I've been counseling men and I'm like, okay, so you, you started, you know, a relationship

00:25:59.180 with a woman at work when you're married with three kids. Did you not, you know, there's quite

00:26:03.980 a bit, if we can look, we can see a lot of examples that this never ends well. There's a lot of times

00:26:08.960 you can just look at the history, how many people who've made this decision that it turned out well

00:26:13.020 for. And I don't know why people always think, well, maybe this time I'll find a way to maneuver

00:26:17.700 through it. But the, and in this very serious scenario, I just mentioned that man is only thinking

00:26:23.180 about one thing. He's thinking about satisfying some sort of, of desire and he's not even thinking

00:26:29.140 about the mess he's about to make. All right. So another lesson there to not be stupid or an

00:26:33.880 antidote to not being stupid, read, read literature that includes the Bible. There's a lot of examples 1.00

00:26:39.460 of people being stupid there, but even like the Odyssey, the Iliad, I mean, there's just so many 1.00

00:26:44.320 examples and just history books, so many examples of people being stupid and you'll learn, you know 1.00

00:26:48.120 what? I'm not going to do that. That really is helpful. Yeah. We're going to take a quick 1.00

00:26:52.840 break for your words from our sponsors. And now back to the show. So at the beginning of every

00:27:00.120 season, your dad would give these epic speeches to kind of set the tone, particularly for the new

00:27:05.040 players. And during those speeches, he would throw the gauntlet down by telling the players to get out

00:27:11.380 of the stands. What does that mean? How have you taken this advice and applied it to your life?

00:27:16.960 Don't we all want to be on the field? I mean, it's amazing to me that men, especially when they're

00:27:22.620 watching sports, they're disgusted by the thought that they would not want to be in the starting

00:27:27.640 lineup. But then we get into life and men and life seem to be perfectly comfortable with being third

00:27:34.520 string, not participating, not accomplishing anything. And a lot of men are like, nah, I'm just

00:27:41.300 going to farm that out to somebody else. And, you know, I'm not going to do that. I don't want to get

00:27:46.240 involved. I don't want to have to get my hands dirty. But if you were to say to them, would you like

00:27:50.300 to be on a sports team and sit the bench? They go, absolutely not. You know, but yet we're sitting

00:27:55.020 the bench on the important things in life. And so dad's deal was, and he would add a little caveat

00:28:01.180 to that. He would say, now, if you can't handle the way things are going to go here, then leave

00:28:05.740 right now and go sit in the stands and then tell everybody how great you could have been if Coach

00:28:11.120 Burgess hadn't been so difficult. And, you know, men do that. And that kind of gets into another thing

00:28:16.420 we'll talk about. But, you know, they'll sit in the stands and then talk about all the coulda,

00:28:21.060 shoulda, woulda if life just hadn't been so unfair. And, you know, that is just so counter

00:28:27.320 to how men were made. That's how we act in our fallen state. And the one thing that always gets

00:28:33.400 me, I'll have people sometimes that'll be critical of how I'm doing things. And I always ask a man,

00:28:39.400 say, look, before I want to listen to what you have to say, what do you do? Because I found being a

00:28:44.700 Christian doing secular entertainment. I don't do Christian radio. I'm a Christian who does radio.

00:28:49.800 But most of the complaints that I get in the way that I'm in the world but not of the world and try

00:28:54.740 to use entertainment to earn the right to share my faith, the most critical people I deal with are

00:28:59.720 not people who disagree with my belief system. It's usually people within all the denominational

00:29:05.040 garbage of the Western church. They complain the most. It's more of the you're not doing it right. 0.99

00:29:09.920 Now, before somebody, because sometimes I do need to be held accountable, so I'm not saying I'm

00:29:14.880 perfect. But one thing I always want to know, Brett, what do you do? Tell me what impact have you had

00:29:21.540 for the faith? How do you use the gifts that God's given you to advance the kingdom of God? I'd like to

00:29:27.580 hear that first. Are you just some guy who sits in the stands and tells the rest of us on the field what

00:29:32.720 we're doing wrong? How about get out of the stands and get on the field and let's see you make a play?

00:29:37.180 Yeah. And he also talked about in that same chapter, a lot of men, or even you see this in

00:29:43.240 high school sports, a lot of boys, they want the perks of playing football or a sport. They want

00:29:49.560 to wear the cool uniform. They want to come out of the tunnel on game night. They want to be cheered.

00:29:54.640 But a lot of people, they don't want to do the work that is required in order for you to do that,

00:29:59.920 right? The two-a-day practices and the practice every day after school for two or three hours.

00:30:04.360 Uh, and your dad had this saying, sometimes you'd stop practice and it's like three o'clock and you

00:30:10.240 see the buses leave, taking kids home. And he'd tell the players like, Hey, there goes those three

00:30:14.060 o'clockers. Yep. Yeah. He, he would tell us because you know, the line, you, you remember this breath.

00:30:19.340 There's a lot of days you're out on that field. You wish you was on that bus. You kind of want to go

00:30:22.820 home and watch, you know, Andy Griffith pre-runs and, you know, and eat a snack too. And, uh, and he was

00:30:28.580 basically letting us know that the sacrifice we're making now will pay off in the end because he

00:30:34.080 would say now to come Friday night and this isn't high school. You can change it to Sunday or Saturday

00:30:39.260 if you played at even higher level. But he said, come Friday night, all those on the bus that don't

00:30:44.540 want to be you right now, when the band's playing, the stadium's full, the cheerleaders are cheering

00:30:49.620 and you're walking out of that tunnel onto the field. Every one of them would switch places with you.

00:30:54.500 So what you have to understand is they're not willing to make the sacrifice you're making,

00:30:59.560 but when it gets to the reward, they're going to wish they would have been you if they could

00:31:04.080 have somehow avoided the sacrifice. And he said that doesn't exist. And so we think about that

00:31:08.980 all the time. I remember a very, very jolting statement that was made by Vance Havner. Vance

00:31:16.540 Havner was an old school pastor. And he said this, he said, the Western church would stop praying

00:31:22.680 for revival if they had any idea what it was really going to cost.

00:31:26.680 It reminds me of that whole line about, you know, you're not willing to pay the price.

00:31:29.680 This is a line from Ronnie Coleman. He's a bodybuilder. And he says, everybody wants to

00:31:35.500 be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy ass weights. And it's true. Like everyone 0.97

00:31:42.420 wants the big muscles or whatever, but no one wants to do the stuff you have to do to get there.

00:31:45.860 Oh, I've said this recently because I've always struggled with my weight after football when

00:31:49.740 I stopped playing. Cause when I walked out of that last workout, I said, well, I'll never do

00:31:52.860 that again. And eventually I just came into conviction that this was not fair to my wife.

00:31:57.620 This wasn't fair to my children. And it certainly made me less effective in men's ministry because

00:32:02.480 it looked like I had no discipline. So I started committing myself and lost weight, got myself

00:32:08.360 in better shape. I wanted to hit my sixties, you know, wide open. And I've done that. And then

00:32:14.060 people will ask me and you can tell they don't want to hear it. Okay. They'll say, so tell me how

00:32:17.860 you've lost the weight and, and got yourself, you know, in a little better shape. What have

00:32:22.580 you done? And I know what the reaction is going to be. And I look at them. I say, well, I practice

00:32:27.920 good nutrition. I don't overeat and I exercise who knew. And I'm, I'm admitting that I spent

00:32:34.400 most of my life knowing that, and I wasn't willing to do it either. So I'm not being hypocritical,

00:32:39.320 but you can tell that is not the answer they want to hear to your statement that you just made

00:32:44.160 about the bodybuilder is how can I somehow not be overweight and be in better shape and

00:32:49.280 not be so sick, but I don't want to have to do, put any effort into it. And that's why

00:32:53.720 these shots and these pills and all this stuff is so popular right now, because people are

00:32:58.560 trying to find a way, uh, to be healthier without ever doing anything. And you may lose

00:33:04.680 the weight with these things, but there's a bigger question. Are you really healthy? But

00:33:09.240 when somebody says, what would you suggest? And you go, well, I would suggest good nutrition,

00:33:13.360 less eating and more exercise that does not draw a crowd.

00:33:17.820 No, it doesn't. All right. So get out of the stands, get more involved in life, in your marriage,

00:33:22.960 in your family, in any organizations you belong to, even at work. A lot of guys just kind of

00:33:27.320 sit on the sidelines at work and just carp about things that have been like, Hey,

00:33:31.620 what can I do to make things better here? But recognize there's a price. There's going to be

00:33:36.320 some sacrifice involved, um, in, in not being in the stands. Another mantra your dad had

00:33:41.620 throughout his career was no excuses. And I'm sure everyone listening who's had a football coach

00:33:46.360 probably heard that no excuses. What did that look like for him as a coach, that mantra?

00:33:52.320 This drove him as crazy as stupid things, people making excuses. And one of the things my dad never 0.99

00:33:58.780 did, never. If we lost a game, he never made an excuse. You, you could have the worst call in the

00:34:06.180 game ever that went against you by the officials. And I can remember some dillies, some good ones.

00:34:11.340 And he would never bring that up. He said, if we played the way we were supposed to play,

00:34:15.980 then the calls would have made no difference. There were moments throughout the game. We could

00:34:20.880 have won the game and we just didn't get the job done. And then he would take most of the

00:34:25.300 responsibility on himself. He would never, I thought one time he was going to just completely

00:34:31.040 lose control. When he started watching these college head football coaches that if it didn't

00:34:36.900 go well, they would send one of the coordinators to the post-game press conference. They wouldn't

00:34:41.340 go themselves as if they were blaming the coordinator. That infuriated him. And I remember the first

00:34:48.040 time that I was playing for him and we had a defensive end that, you know, let containment

00:34:53.300 be broke. They bounced outside of him. And he said, where were you? You're supposed to,

00:34:58.500 you know, you know, this funnel that play back inside. And the defensive end said, well,

00:35:02.860 I slipped coach. And he looked at him. He said, but you can't slip. Don't make an excuse.

00:35:07.340 Just tell me you didn't get the job done. Uh, if you're the person in charge of containment,

00:35:11.400 slipping is not an option. Just say you didn't contain. And then we can work with that, but

00:35:15.580 please don't make an excuse about it. And, uh, and so he felt like that you should ultimately

00:35:21.280 just admit there was nothing more freeing that if you didn't have success is to actually say

00:35:26.820 you didn't get the job done, not blame it on something else. Like you, you didn't have

00:35:30.820 any responsibility. Well, now he's teaching more than football there, you know, because

00:35:34.800 people are always willing to blame other people for really things they need to take

00:35:39.100 responsibility for. And he taught that lesson and he taught it hard. I never heard him make

00:35:45.160 an excuse. I do remember one time, and this is in the book, and you probably read that

00:35:49.000 when he had the game where they beat a team really bad in college and it was in a

00:35:53.120 torrential downpour. So he was leaving the house on Sunday after we'd gone to church

00:35:58.640 and was headed back to the office for the next week game. And the other coaches, coaches

00:36:03.120 show was on TV. And that guy was talking about how hard it rained and how they couldn't move

00:36:07.900 the ball because how bad the weather was. Now dad's team had beaten the other man's team

00:36:12.560 35 to nothing. And so my dad looked at me as he went out and he said, well, I'll tell

00:36:16.900 you, listen to this guy, you would think it only rained on one side of the field.

00:36:19.480 And, and that's all he said, but he was making the point. There he is making excuses.

00:36:24.960 You know, he didn't make them and he didn't have much respect for other people who did.

00:36:29.860 So how can taking, I mean, it sounds like your dad was advocating for something like

00:36:32.660 just radical ownership of your life. How can that change a man's life? 0.80

00:36:38.140 Well, if I'm always justifying everything in my life and I'm always making an excuse for

00:36:42.620 the things that are in my life, then ultimately, you know, I'm never going to go anywhere.

00:36:48.200 I'm sorry. If you're listening to this and you had a bad family life, that's terrible.

00:36:52.800 I'm sorry. If you had a rough go of things, I'm sorry. If you've had a kind of a rough

00:36:56.720 time, but at the end of the day, that can't be used as an excuse for you not to succeed.

00:37:02.860 If you saw bad examples in your life, then why don't you be a good example?

00:37:07.180 We are in control of the things that we do. We may not be able to control what other people

00:37:12.860 do, but my dad always taught control what you can control. So ultimately you got to take ownership

00:37:18.360 of how this turned out. And if it didn't go well at the end of it all, it's probably because you

00:37:23.040 didn't do the job as well as you should have. Yeah. In existential philosophy, there's this

00:37:27.240 idea of living in bad faith. When you're living in bad faith, you're denying the responsibility.

00:37:32.760 You can make decisions that change whatever situation you're in. You still have the ability

00:37:37.600 to make decisions. Like that can't be taken away from you. Exactly. And so whenever you try to make

00:37:44.120 excuses, you say, yeah, you're living in bad faith. You are denying your agency. Yeah. I mean,

00:37:49.440 whatever happened to that's on me, you know, and I will tell you this, one of the biggest

00:37:55.180 obstacles that I face every single day is myself. I'm my biggest enemy. And so I try to get myself

00:38:02.420 under control. And if I can do that, what's coming after that usually is not near as difficult.

00:38:08.300 Yeah. So something else, a sort of thread throughout this book is your dad teaching

00:38:14.180 about the difference between confidence and arrogance. Your dad sounds like he was a confident

00:38:19.420 man, but not an arrogant man. What's the difference between confidence and arrogance according to your

00:38:23.740 dad? Well, there's no doubt he was confident. I think my dad truly believed that there was nobody

00:38:28.680 alive that could take him, you know, and that he, he, he, he, he would overcome anything. And,

00:38:34.220 you know, there's a, there's a thing out right now. I don't know if you've been seeing it where

00:38:38.300 could a hundred men defeat a silverback gorilla? Have you been watching that? I've been watching

00:38:42.680 that. Yeah. I think my dad thinks he could, you know, and I don't think my dad, my dad would like,

00:38:48.080 yeah, I'll handle that. That's not a problem. You think a gorilla could take me, but his confidence

00:38:51.820 was not arrogance because also the same man that was confident that he could stand against anything

00:38:58.480 that life could throw at him was also the same man that an equipment salesman found cleaning the

00:39:04.520 bathrooms when he was athlete director and head coach. And so when he went in to find my dad in a

00:39:11.200 stall cleaning a toilet and he asked my dad, what in the world are you doing coach cleaning the toilets?

00:39:17.640 I mean, you're the athletic director, you're the head football coach. And dad said, I'm cleaning the

00:39:22.300 toilets because it's my turn. He never thought he was above cleaning toilets. So yes, he was confident,

00:39:28.900 but he wasn't arrogant. He always kept that servant's attitude. My ultimate leadership is actually to serve

00:39:36.780 the assistant coaches, to serve the players, to let them know that though I am confident in my abilities,

00:39:43.900 I would give myself for your benefit. And I remember he had the attitude of he could get on to us, but

00:39:50.200 nobody else could. He became our advocate if others tried to get on us and, uh, you know, talking about

00:39:55.820 teams and even talking about us as his children and his family. So my dad was confident, but then,

00:40:01.600 you know, arrogance is something that I struggled with. And, and you see in the book, he tried to teach me

00:40:07.520 because I was a bit of a hot dog, which drove him crazy. And, uh, and of course he would always try

00:40:13.980 to take me down that road and tell me about that fine line between being confident in your job and

00:40:20.200 being arrogant about what you can do. And the, the point that he always tried to make is that if you

00:40:27.540 are not willing to put the work in, if you're not willing to sacrifice yourself for the benefit of the

00:40:33.200 team, that's not confidence, that's arrogance. And when you're arrogant, you'll get us beat.

00:40:38.740 Let's shift themes here. It's not football related, but your dad, he, he was a hunter.

00:40:43.880 Yes. He's a big time hunter. And one year when, you know, he was older and you were older,

00:40:49.220 you're an adult, you gave him a GPS device because you thought, Hey, this would be handy

00:40:53.360 for my dad to have when he's out hunting Turkey or whatever. But the thing is, he never used it.

00:40:59.400 Never. I have it in my office. I still have it.

00:41:01.740 Why, why is that? Like, what lesson did you take from him?

00:41:04.560 Well, you know, I thought I was going to give him the greatest father's day gift ever.

00:41:09.220 I would shame my siblings, you know, because I got this new technology and knowing that he

00:41:14.100 loved the outdoors, I thought, well, he can go anywhere he wants to go now by just entering

00:41:18.400 in, you know, these were the old garments, you know, still, they were a little bulky and

00:41:21.700 you had to put them in your car and all that. These were the early days of the GPS.

00:41:25.440 But what dad said back to me, I've never forgotten. He asked me what this thing

00:41:31.540 was. And I said, dad, that's, that's a GPS. You just enter in wherever you want to go.

00:41:36.360 It'll take you right to it. So he, he doesn't even take it out of the box and he kind of pushes

00:41:40.640 it to the side. And I see him doing that. And he even asked me for the receipt.

00:41:44.940 Uh, and I said, dad, what, what, what's the deal? Do you not want that? And he goes,

00:41:49.520 you know, I'm not trying to hurt anybody's feelings or anything. He goes, but I don't

00:41:53.520 need it. I said, you don't need a GPS. And then he said, no, I don't go anywhere that

00:41:58.300 I don't know where I'm going. And I thought, oh my goodness, I don't even have a response

00:42:03.480 to that. His point was, I always know where I'm going. I don't wonder where I'm going

00:42:09.440 or need someone else to figure out where I'm going. I always know where I'm going and

00:42:14.500 boy, what a lesson, right? Brett. I mean, how many men right now are just kind of making

00:42:19.500 it up as they go. They think that somebody else needs to tell them where they're going

00:42:23.960 when they need to, if, if you don't know where you're going, I don't know how we expect

00:42:28.140 anybody else to tell us where we're going.

00:42:30.360 Your dad's story reminded me, I just recently finished Moby Dick. I finished a couple months

00:42:34.380 ago. Have you read Moby Dick?

00:42:36.600 I have.

00:42:37.080 Well, there's this famous scene with Ahab and he's got this quadrant. That's what the

00:42:43.060 sailors use to navigate. And there's this moment where he just destroys it because he realizes

00:42:48.900 the quadrant can't tell him where he wants to go. It's like, that's on me. And so he

00:42:53.560 smashed it. He's like, I'm in charge here. So yeah, your dad's story, the GPS reminded

00:42:56.780 me of Ahab a little bit.

00:42:58.360 It's exactly the same thing. Ahab is realizing this can't help me decide where I want to go.

00:43:03.660 I got to figure that out. And of course, then dad was adding,

00:43:07.080 the other part, figure out where you want to go, but you also need to know how to get there.

00:43:10.980 So how can a man figure out where he's going in life? I'm sure you deal with a lot of men

00:43:14.960 who have no clue where they're going.

00:43:17.080 Yeah. Yeah. I think first of all, you know, what is your passion? Is there anything you

00:43:21.640 feel called to at all? I mean, is there something that kind of keeps you awake at night? Is there

00:43:26.280 something that, you know, it's down in like their guts where you're like, man, I really

00:43:30.480 feel like this is where I should go. I think this is what I need to do. I'd love to have

00:43:36.300 more impact with my life. But until you figure out where you want to go, then there's no way

00:43:41.460 to put together a plan on how to get there. But then you have guys that do the other.

00:43:45.340 They know where they want to go, but kind of we've already touched on this, but they're

00:43:48.660 not willing to figure out what it takes to get there. And then sometimes they figure out

00:43:53.180 what it takes to get there and they're just not willing to give that to go. But somehow

00:43:56.420 they still expect it to happen. So I think that the thing that I find with men a lot,

00:44:02.740 Brett, and I remember this period of my life, if you're listening to this right now and you're

00:44:08.220 just kind of making it up as you go, man, use today for time to change. I'm going to stop

00:44:13.700 just making it up as I go. I'm going to figure out what is important to me, what I think I'm

00:44:19.860 supposed to be doing with my life, and then I'm going to put together a plan to do it.

00:44:23.680 In 2008, your two-year-old son tragically drowned. Losing a child is the worst thing that

00:44:30.720 can happen to a parent. How did the lessons you got from your father help you prepare for

00:44:36.640 that moment?

00:44:37.820 Well, the thing that you've already heard is men don't run in the rain. And boy,

00:44:43.560 it was pouring and storming and raining when that happened. And, you know, I immediately

00:44:49.360 begin to draw on the things that he taught me about right now. Your whole family's looking to

00:44:53.040 you. You know, everybody needs to feel steady. Everybody needs to feel calm. They don't need

00:44:58.000 to see you panic. You don't need to be coming apart. Now, I didn't take that to the point that

00:45:03.420 is unhealthy where I didn't mourn. But there was a moment in the beginning where your wife has

00:45:09.380 fallen apart, your children, who the siblings are falling apart. And frankly, whether you like it

00:45:15.540 or not, we don't have that luxury. Because if we don't hold this thing together until everybody can

00:45:20.500 get back on their feet, then it's all going to fall apart. And I had been taught that I don't run in

00:45:26.860 the rain, that I stand sturdy and I go and I minister to my wife and I pull the children together

00:45:35.140 and I start talking to them about, you know, life and who God is in these situations. But I would

00:45:40.720 challenge every man is kind of what we just talked about, about a game plan. It's impossible for me to

00:45:46.940 tell my wife and tell my children who God is when a two and a half year old little boy dies or what's

00:45:53.380 going on in the world when a two and a half year old little boy dies if I don't already know those

00:45:57.780 answers. See, I didn't know that this was ever going to happen, but I had spent a large portion

00:46:03.660 of my life preparing for whatever was coming. You know, for me, it was the Word of God. I went there,

00:46:10.380 I wanted to know everything about God I could possibly know. And you say, well, Rick, how do you do that?

00:46:15.160 I don't like to study. And I was the same guy. The early days of our family, after I was redeemed,

00:46:20.640 my wife was the spiritual leader. I'm not going out like that wasn't true. But that radically

00:46:24.760 changed in my life when I realized that I was actually quite knowledgeable about everything

00:46:29.240 that I deemed a value and everything that I loved. I knew about hunting. I knew about fishing.

00:46:34.420 I knew about football. I knew about how to run a business. I knew how to do a radio show. I knew

00:46:39.120 how to run that equipment. Well, if I'm not, if I don't have good study habits, how in the world did I

00:46:44.000 learn all this? I learned it because I was passionate about it and I cared about it. And I had to come to a

00:46:49.700 terrible conclusion that I didn't know who God was and I didn't know the Word of God because I

00:46:54.540 didn't deem it a value and I didn't love it. So I changed that and began to seek God in a way that

00:47:00.880 I never had and began to study His Word. Well, when this moment arrived, I had the answers. Now,

00:47:08.420 I didn't come up with them. They had been provided to me by the very God that created me.

00:47:12.380 But in that moment, what the family and my wife can't see is me falling apart and running in the

00:47:20.040 rain. And I'll never forget the words of my wife when it was all kind of clearing and we were

00:47:26.260 reflecting and it's always with us. But she said, you know, that night at Children's Hospital,

00:47:32.160 our pastor couldn't comfort me. Our friends couldn't comfort me. Our family couldn't comfort me

00:47:38.340 because we all knew one thing. They couldn't be my husband. They couldn't be the children's father.

00:47:44.040 So we waited on you because no one could replace you. How did your father help you during this time?

00:47:53.580 You know, my father helped me by confidently encouraging me and telling me that I was doing

00:48:01.540 a good job. And the thing I think that I'll never forget is my father and I and our interaction

00:48:09.160 at my son's memorial service when I got up to speak and didn't expect to speak the way it went.

00:48:18.120 It was a supernatural moment. But when it was over, he and I had an interaction. And that was that

00:48:25.940 we were both kind of redefining what it looks like to be a man. And I won't give it all away. You can

00:48:33.340 read the book, but he basically is telling me that he knew it was raining. He knew it was storming and

00:48:38.380 he watched me and he let me know that I didn't run. Yeah. When I read that scene, basically your dad

00:48:45.280 was telling you you're a man, like you're a man. And I think every man, they crave that from their dads.

00:48:51.080 They want that recognition from their dads. Yeah. My dad didn't patronize me, but my dad

00:48:56.180 never robbed me of hearing, I'm proud of you. And then in that moment, it was the thing that even

00:49:02.280 goes beyond, I'm proud of you is, does he see me as a man? Does he see me as his equal? And I remember

00:49:08.400 that moment vividly because he looked at me after it was over. And like you said, and he just looked

00:49:12.520 at me and said, now that right there is a man. And to hear that in that moment, he gave me the

00:49:19.040 confidence I needed to continue on. Yeah. I think there's a great lesson there of

00:49:23.520 a father's blessing or a father's recognition. I think that's something you got to think about

00:49:28.400 as a father. You might not be thinking about that when your kid is five, even 10, or maybe even 15.

00:49:34.900 But once they start getting in adulthood, you got to start thinking about that.

00:49:38.040 Yeah. And I think before that, you know, cause they're not men yet, but you definitely need to

00:49:42.080 find these moments to tell them you're proud of them. Don't ever assume that your son or daughter

00:49:48.380 knows you're proud of them. Don't ever assume that. Don't ever assume that your wife knows that

00:49:53.220 you love her. If you have a wife, these things need to be vocalized by us clearly. And it really, 0.60

00:50:00.620 really has an impact when we do so. If there's one lesson you got from your dad that sort of

00:50:07.060 encapsulates all the wisdom you got from over the years, what would that be? I think the thing that

00:50:12.460 I take away the most is that though you are in the leadership role, be someone that is still fun to

00:50:21.140 be around. My dad was intimidating. My dad was clearly in charge and had influence, but he also

00:50:29.020 was fun. You know, it wasn't just the, I'm whipping everybody into, you know, military shape and you never

00:50:35.500 see him. I'm always stoic. And he wasn't like that at all. My dad was a huge cutup and he, he picked

00:50:42.560 and chose his moments correctly on when he needed to kind of let the pressure off a little bit and

00:50:48.060 let's lighten things up a little bit. And so I looked at him and I realized that I learned from him

00:50:54.820 how to love a wife, which he did with my mother. Incredible. How to be authoritative, but still be close

00:51:03.060 to your children to still be able to cut up and have a laugh with them. And I think that probably

00:51:09.960 of all the lessons we talked about today and talked about in the book, I believe the lesson of being

00:51:15.840 steady, the lesson of not panicking, the lesson of let your family and let society see that you're,

00:51:23.400 you're there, you're at your position, you're watching, you're, you're over them. And, um, and

00:51:28.800 ultimately take responsibility for the mistakes you make in life and own them and then change

00:51:35.280 and don't make those same mistakes again. So taking full responsibility for, for who you are

00:51:40.800 and leading while at the same time, encouraging with the same amount of power, you know, don't just

00:51:46.980 be strong to correct. Also be strong to encourage and take responsibility for when you mess up.

00:51:53.680 Well, Rick, this has been a great conversation. Where can people go to learn more about the book in

00:51:56.720 your work? You can go to themanchurch.com. We're a men's discipleship strategy. All of our resources

00:52:03.240 are there, but this new book will be there too. themanchurch.com. And you can also contact us if

00:52:08.540 we can help you any way with your men's ministry, if that's something you're interested in. But if not,

00:52:13.280 at least get this book and it'll be right there on the homepage. Fantastic. Well, Rick Burgess,

00:52:17.440 thanks for your time. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me, Brett. It means a lot.

00:52:21.320 My guest here was Rick Burgess. He's the author of the book, Men Don't Run in the Rain. It's available on

00:52:25.080 amazon.com. You can find more information about his work at his website, themanchurch.com. Also

00:52:29.940 check out our show notes at aom.is slash rain. We find links to resources. We delve deeper into this

00:52:34.420 topic. Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast. Make sure to check out our website at

00:52:45.940 artofmanliness.com. We find our podcast archives, as well as thousands of articles that were written

00:52:49.560 over the years about pretty much anything you think of. And if you haven't done this already,

00:52:52.780 I'd appreciate it if you take one minute to give you another podcast or Spotify. It helps out a lot.

00:52:56.500 And if you've done that already, thank you. Please consider sharing the show with a friend or

00:52:59.820 family member who you think would have something out of it. As always, thank you for the continued

00:53:03.240 support. Until next time, it's Brett McKay. Reminding time to listen to anyone podcast where you put what

00:53:07.040 you've heard into action.

The Art of Manliness - June 10, 2025

Men Don't Run in the Rain — And 7 Other Essential Lessons for Being a Man

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