The Art of Manliness - July 31, 2025


The 5 Allies Every Man Needs


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Summary

When it comes to improving our lives and reaching our goals, we often think of changing our personal habits and routines. We think about ourselves but don't look outside ourselves. But my guests would say that if we really want to change and make progress, we also need to surround ourselves with positive, strengthening people, in particular five types of allies of glory who can truly help us be our best.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast when it comes to
00:00:11.440 improving our lives and reaching our goals we often think of changing our personal habits and
00:00:15.320 routines we think about ourselves but don't look outside ourselves but my guests would say that if
00:00:19.760 we really want to change and make progress we also need to surround ourselves with positive
00:00:23.360 strengthening people in particular five types of allies of glory who can truly help us be our best
00:00:28.360 his name is antonio nevs and he's an author speaker podcaster success coach today on the show
00:00:33.220 antonio and i discuss the importance of relationships and moving us forward in our
00:00:36.460 personal career goals the difference between allies who facilitate that progress and the
00:00:39.640 thieves who hinder it and how to minimize the influence the latter have on us we then get
00:00:43.220 into the five kinds of allies antonio says we need in our lives and he unpacks what each of
00:00:46.900 these allies offers we enter conversation with antonio's advice on how to find these allies
00:00:50.460 and expand your social professional networks after the show's over check out our show notes
00:00:54.000 at aom.is slash allies antonio joins you now via clearcast.io
00:00:58.600 all right antonio nez welcome back to the show oh what an honor what a joy it is to be here with
00:01:15.820 you again thanks for having me so we had you on last year to talk about your book stop living on
00:01:20.060 autopilot take responsibility for your life and rediscover a bolder happier you and in that book
00:01:25.540 one of the things you talked about and sort of getting started with these these goals you have
00:01:29.520 in life is to think about your relationships because i think a lot of times when people think about
00:01:34.580 making changes in their life they think about their personal habits their routines things like that
00:01:40.140 it's it's all about themselves but they don't think outside themselves but something you've been
00:01:44.960 really pushing for a long time now is that relationships play a big role in personal
00:01:51.020 development why are relationships so key in enabling us to change and grow yeah well first you know this
00:01:58.260 habits and routines just aren't enough and it makes me think about this classic quote from will
00:02:03.280 rogers and he says a man only learns in two ways one by reading and the other by the association
00:02:10.360 with smarter people and i find that to be 100 true and i've said for the longest time the three things
00:02:16.980 that will positively improve your life are the right people the right people and the right people
00:02:23.620 and just to back up a little bit you know that the problem and this is something you've talked about on
00:02:27.940 this podcast i'm so thankful that you have is that even prior to the pandemic i mean there were
00:02:32.860 studies that found that loneliness was at epidemic levels in the united states so much so that it was
00:02:39.020 declared like a public health crisis and it's been estimated that one out of five one out of five
00:02:45.140 americans say they have no one to talk to when they're going through a tough time and we know like
00:02:51.160 just people's mental health and substance abuse issues and burnout have just been on the rise and that's
00:02:57.300 just been exacerbated so in a time when we straight up needed each other more than ever so many of us have
00:03:03.940 been disconnected and what i found personally in my life with the clients that i work with and
00:03:09.620 through the hundreds of people that i've interviewed over the course of my career if not thousands
00:03:14.060 that the right relationships and the right communities make us better you know the right
00:03:19.820 relationships the right people the right community in many ways are like what water are
00:03:23.940 to a plant without them it's it's kind of like being in a dry desert where it's hard for life to
00:03:31.020 survive it's hard for it to grow but relationships community is it's the fuel that keeps us going
00:03:38.080 especially especially during challenging times well there's that that saying that you hear often like
00:03:43.680 the personal development circles you know you're the average of the five people you hang out with the
00:03:48.020 most and i think there's something to that i mean i don't know if there's any been any empirical
00:03:51.540 research done on that but in my experience that is true like i tend to act like or sort of model
00:03:59.740 the people i'm around the most and and i've seen that in the lives of you know friends in high
00:04:05.480 school there's always that moment where you see a kid they go with the wrong crowd for example and
00:04:10.600 they just their life goes a different trajectory compared to the kid who stays with a positive
00:04:14.580 uplifting crowd their life goes a completely different trajectory because of the people they
00:04:18.700 surround themselves with i agree with you 100 and we've always heard that cliche thing is the five
00:04:24.660 people you surround yourself with now i think it goes beyond that so beyond even the people you
00:04:28.800 spend time with physically i invite people right now just to just to pull out their phone and look
00:04:34.600 at their last five text messages and ask themselves what were these text message exchanges were they
00:04:39.860 powerful were they were they positive were they empowering were they encouraging or no were they
00:04:45.700 drama filled was their gossip was it negative also the people i spend my time with are the people that
00:04:51.960 are in my ears i'm fortunate enough i get to spend a lot of time with you and your guests when i'm
00:04:58.120 walking around so these days i don't think it's just a physical but it's also what we pour into
00:05:03.040 ourselves through what we read through what we listen to through what we consume text etc so it's
00:05:09.740 not just a physical it goes so far beyond no i was having this conversation with my kids the other day
00:05:15.080 about sort of educating your desires right and this idea i was trying to get to like there's all sorts of
00:05:21.320 organizations and people out there who want to change what you desire we talked about advertisers they
00:05:26.900 want you to desire the stuff they're they're selling and so a youtuber might be wanting you to
00:05:32.880 listen to this idea so they're so i was trying to get home to the ideas like you got to be really
00:05:37.620 intentional and careful about the things you consume or the people you interact with because
00:05:43.160 subtly you might not know it or not they are modeling a way of life for you and if you want that
00:05:49.860 way of life to be positive uplifting ennobling enabling then make sure you've you know surround
00:05:55.980 yourself with people not just physically like you're saying but also just in ether the podcast
00:06:00.380 the youtube channels you view the the things you read make sure they're also shaping you or directing
00:06:06.700 you towards where you want to go in life yeah i couldn't agree 100 more i think about even like my
00:06:12.360 young kids my wife and i we have six-year-old twins and based on what they're listening to or what
00:06:17.540 they're watching when they get to watch something we can sometimes see a real profound shift in their mood
00:06:23.720 in their energy it's the same thing with me when i listen to podcasts like i could be having a pretty
00:06:29.960 bad day but i can go on a walk and listen to a podcast and feel like i have a conversation with
00:06:34.560 you or someone else and learn and it can change the whole mood of my day it's the same thing when
00:06:40.020 it comes to music like i love music i like aggressive hip-hop music when i run but let me tell you
00:06:46.020 something i i do not want to go into a meeting right after listening to aggressive hip-hop or rock and roll
00:06:52.020 music so what we consume what we listen to changes everything about our dynamics and how we interact
00:06:59.740 with the world so in your last book stop leaving on autopilot you talked about there are two types of
00:07:05.540 people in our life relations we have there are allies those that we want allies in our lives and
00:07:11.200 at the same time you say we need to get rid of thieves in our lives what's the difference between
00:07:15.560 allies and thieves yeah well the first time i came across this concept was way back in undergrad when
00:07:21.220 i was on the track and field team at western michigan university in kalamazoo michigan and one
00:07:26.300 day my head coach came up to me and after two years of being on the team i was doing horrible but he
00:07:32.080 pointed something out to me he said you know in two years of being on this roster not once have i seen
00:07:37.180 you spend time with those two guys and he pointed to two guys on the track and these were two all
00:07:42.420 americans two of the best athletes in the country one would go on to compete in the olympics
00:07:47.240 another one would go on to compete in multiple world championships he said in two years you have
00:07:52.500 not spent any time with these people and he said instead you're hanging out with those guys and he
00:07:57.740 pointed over to a group of guys that were hanging out on the high jump mat laughing and having a good
00:08:02.480 time now here's the wild thing those guys on the high jump mat laughing and having a good time that
00:08:06.980 they weren't bad people they weren't committing crimes but they were not all americans and in a way
00:08:13.300 coach shaw introduced me to this concept of thieves and allies and i look at thieves i call them thieves
00:08:19.160 of ambition these are those people that don't encourage you that don't inspire you there's people
00:08:24.840 that don't challenge you or push you or hold you accountable to be the best version of yourself
00:08:29.920 you know to get more specific these are those people that in some shape or form they always have
00:08:36.360 drama going on in their lives i guarantee people listening right now you probably can identify one person
00:08:42.180 in your life who always have some type of drama going on in their lives and thieves are also people
00:08:48.500 that they're what my friend the author john gordon calls energy vampires when you spend time with them
00:08:54.460 they wear you out but on the flip side we can spend time with allies allies of glory these are these
00:09:00.960 amazing men and women that have a unique set of skills and expertise and they encourage you they inspire
00:09:07.040 you they challenge you they push you and they they hold you accountable to be the best version of
00:09:12.580 yourself these people when you spend time with them they don't wear you out they don't drain energy
00:09:17.760 from you know that they fire you up these people don't have drama going on in their lives they have
00:09:24.900 great things going on in their lives you know i've had the opportunity over the course of my career as a journalist
00:09:30.780 but also as a coach to to interview and work with amazing ceos executives politicians grammy and oscar award winners
00:09:37.900 you name it and there's a reason why these super accomplished people you know that they work with coaches
00:09:43.840 and they surround themselves with people that make them better you know allies they provide objectivity
00:09:49.520 they can see things from an objective and unbiased point of view that on our own we're likely to miss
00:09:56.440 and what i've found over the course of my life and i'm curious of your perspective is that sometimes
00:10:00.560 our family and friends can't always play this role for us because they're a little bit too close in
00:10:07.580 their anything but objective no i think that's true because it's also they've they've got a relationship
00:10:14.640 with the the you of the past or the current you and whenever you try to you know if you want something
00:10:21.140 different that disrupts their their relationship with you because it's now things are different
00:10:26.760 between you and them and that can be uncomfortable and so they might not you know they might not
00:10:30.840 outright sabotage you but they're not going to probably encourage you as much as you'd hope they
00:10:37.760 would yeah i think you put that perfectly in many ways this makes me smile a little bit that many people
00:10:43.240 who know us well they have a vested interest in us staying the same because when we don't stay the same
00:10:51.000 when things change when we grow when we find certain markers of success in our life that can cause
00:10:56.600 friction with them in fact you know i talk about how sometimes it can actually threaten people it can
00:11:03.080 scare people when we grow and i think that's not because it's malicious i think because in many ways
00:11:08.560 as they they see us grow they see us stretch ourselves they see all of a sudden wow they're spending
00:11:13.240 time with these different this different community now etc they're listening to different things
00:11:17.600 or showing up to different events what it does is that it can hold up a mirror to all the things
00:11:23.740 that they're not doing in their own lives and that can cause some internal friction to happen and that's
00:11:29.680 when sometimes those passive aggressive comments can show up or oh you're too good for us now slow down
00:11:36.240 you're making the rest of us look bad that's when those kind of things can show up though they may not
00:11:40.760 even be aware that they're experiencing some internal friction yeah i mean there's a mixture of envy going
00:11:46.760 on perhaps and i think a lot of it's just fear that there i think sometimes people get afraid that they're
00:11:51.460 going to get left behind and that's that can be frightening that that's spot on especially when you hear
00:11:56.680 something and you've probably heard this over the course as this podcast has exploded over the years
00:12:01.060 when you oh must be nice right must be nice to have a top podcast yeah it is nice and but they don't know
00:12:07.400 about they don't think about episode one when there are only a few listeners or at the very beginning
00:12:12.920 when you're doing this and managing so many other things and you know we have the opportunity hopefully
00:12:18.020 to invite them to go on that journey that we're on and they can join us as well so you know you're
00:12:22.760 saying i think one of the things you're getting at here sometimes the thieves in our lives are often
00:12:27.000 the people we have the closest relationship we're talking friends and family so how do you do you have
00:12:32.100 any advice on i i don't want to say like i don't think you're saying like well you just got to cut
00:12:37.500 those people off you got to cut your mom off completely or this is your best friend or even
00:12:42.720 like you know you're talking about those those track buddies you hung out with like they weren't bad
00:12:45.700 guys they weren't going they weren't doing drugs they weren't in jail but they were holding you back
00:12:50.160 in a way so how do you how do you get those thieves out of your life but in i guess a humane way
00:12:55.680 is what i'm trying to get at that's a great way to put it in a in a delicate way in a humane way
00:13:01.240 first and this is i think the world would be much better off all of us would be much better off if
00:13:08.360 we were willing to have some tough 10 minute conversations right now every we all probably
00:13:15.040 there's a tough conversation that probably needs to take place with your spouse with someone in the
00:13:20.780 office with a friend a family member that for whatever reason we've been unwilling to have that
00:13:26.980 tough 10 minute conversation i think sometimes funny enough that's what being a man that's what
00:13:31.600 being an adult is about being willing to have those uncomfortable conversations to be practical
00:13:37.220 if there are some thieves in your life folks that are draining energy and they're not positive
00:13:42.460 what i recommend is doing exactly that have a conversation with that individual not not a text
00:13:48.920 message exchange have a real conversation with that individual and you know invite them on their
00:13:54.540 journey let them know tell them straight up what you're up to what your goals are what you're looking
00:14:00.000 to achieve in your life and this is the challenging one right here also let them know what your expectations
00:14:06.100 are for their friendship moving forward and go from there what you're doing is you're not saying
00:14:11.560 i'm cutting you off i'm leaving you alone instead of what you're doing in many ways is you're making
00:14:16.820 an invitation for them to to join you and just the courage to have that conversation can can positively
00:14:24.120 change so many different things i mean it doesn't mean that you'll never see or talk these people
00:14:29.340 again no but if they don't decide to go on the journey with you but what that will require for you to do
00:14:35.180 is yes to create some some clear boundaries and decide when or when not you're going to be in
00:14:41.060 certain people's presence and and just briefly you talked about family now family this one can be
00:14:47.000 super challenging obviously because they're not going anywhere again i invite folks to have that
00:14:53.800 conversation with them and if it's a loved one say and i talk to so many people they're like antonio
00:14:59.060 i hear you on this but guess who's not on my journey with me guess who's been a thief they say their
00:15:03.960 spouse so you can imagine how tough that one is my spouse so sometimes you have to go into counseling
00:15:09.400 or therapy to get support with that and if for whatever reason they're unable to shift again
00:15:15.460 there are some types of boundaries that need to be made and maybe even some big decisions down the road
00:15:21.860 so it's not easy but i'm inviting people to be courageous and to be bold to be willing to have
00:15:27.960 some tough conversations the results of that conversation they might just surprise you i'm curious when you
00:15:33.880 had that conversation with your track coach about the thieves you were hanging out with did that change
00:15:37.880 you your behavior like you started hanging out with the all americans that changed so much at that
00:15:43.160 time i was a walk-on it was my sophomore year of college i walked on the track and field team i could
00:15:48.520 have been cut at any moment from that team i had loved track and field since seeing carl lewis
00:15:53.340 win four gold medals in los angeles in 1984 there's nothing more than i i wanted than that
00:15:59.020 and yes that changed me spending more time with those allies learning from them seeing how they show up
00:16:05.500 every single day learning from their standards and their values and most importantly their level of
00:16:10.720 commitment that i did not have and what that led to is two years a couple years later i found myself
00:16:16.540 an all-conference triple jumper no i never became an olympian or ncaa champion but i did become an
00:16:23.660 all-conference triple jumper i earned a partial scholarship which was cool because my mom was paying for a
00:16:29.220 portion of my tuition on a credit card at that time and it showed me how to show up differently and that
00:16:37.240 has impacted my career ever since then that that coach shaw and that message is sticks with me every
00:16:45.460 single day all right so take a look at your life look at the thieves the people who are sucking energy
00:16:50.860 out of you like they're those vampires in your life maybe not enough it's not intentional oftentimes
00:16:55.240 but find out people who are kind of getting in the way of goals you have of improving yourself and
00:16:59.840 then if you need to you have a tough conversation doesn't have to be mean just be like hey i love you
00:17:04.320 you mean a lot to me but this is where i want to go with my life and i'd love your support if you
00:17:08.680 can't do that that's fine i completely understand and then establishing boundaries that's that's it and
00:17:13.660 i also have to add we're talking about other people right now but of course it's also important
00:17:17.720 for us to be allies to others as well we have to evaluate and audit our own behavior and say hey am i
00:17:23.420 showing up right now as a thief yeah my friend my spouse or am i showing up as an ally that's a good
00:17:28.940 point i've oftentimes we think about other people being the the thieves but we might am i being the
00:17:33.580 thief am i the am i the energy suck here that's that's always good to turn that question on you
00:17:38.040 absolutely a fun question to ask ourselves i do this in training sometimes at organizations
00:17:43.000 is to ask the question what shows up when you show up when you show up do things get better or do
00:17:49.800 they get worse because we all can think of that example of go you're at a party you're having a
00:17:53.920 great time at the party and then the door opens and somebody walks in and you see who it is and
00:17:58.820 you're like oh no this party is about to turn a negative corner or you've been in that meeting
00:18:04.800 at work and it's that meeting when progress is being made people are are making firm commitments
00:18:11.200 momentum is happening and then that that door to the conference room opens and that person shows up
00:18:17.540 and you know like you know all the progress we just made is going to be lost because this person
00:18:22.880 is going to come in playing devil's advocate non-stop so what shows up when you show up the
00:18:28.020 goal for when we show up and when people think about us is for things to get better yeah you don't
00:18:34.160 want to you want to be the guy that everyone's excited when they show up and sad when you leave
00:18:39.380 you don't want to be the guy that everyone just gets bummed when you show up and are happy when you
00:18:43.900 get out of there 100 we're gonna take a quick break for your word from our sponsors
00:18:49.500 and now back to the show all right so we've been talking about thieves let's talk about allies and
00:18:56.120 you talked about this in your first book but you've been fleshing this idea out more and you've been
00:19:00.600 saying that there are there are five allies everyone needs in their life and let's talk about these five
00:19:05.560 starting with the encourager who is the encourager yeah the encourager is that individual that
00:19:12.440 that does the work that a lot of people don't see but when this person is around in your life
00:19:17.500 you always seem to be at your best i think about like during tough spells they they're willing to
00:19:23.460 always support you with perspective and that unwavering commitment that they're rooting for you
00:19:28.420 like in sports this is that person that's just consistent they're not the mvp but they show up they
00:19:33.220 have a strong 301 batting average a high on base percentage and they're probably uh underrated in many
00:19:39.800 regards they're consistent they're not fair weather and when i think about the encourager in some ways
00:19:44.640 i think about this character in the apple series uh ted lasso in many ways even though he's the lead
00:19:50.280 character in that television show ted lasso is that encourager for everyone in his life we could we
00:19:56.320 could all use an encourager in our life who's the encourager in your life wow what a fantastic question
00:20:02.060 well one i gotta say i'm fortunate enough to have my wife as my encourager as i'm just thinking about
00:20:06.980 last night sitting on the couch with her while i was editing something that needed some love and
00:20:11.320 and she was there to to encourage me as an ally i have a few quite a few people in my life that that
00:20:19.760 give me a lot of virtual high fives even when they they somehow they know when i need it and in the
00:20:25.060 field of work that i do you know as a coach as a speaker and an author and maybe you can relate to
00:20:29.880 this a lot of the work that i do is it's isolating i do a lot of work by myself when i'm not on stages
00:20:35.000 in front of a lot of people and i think sometimes we forget that the encourager which i consider
00:20:39.820 myself needs an encourager so who encourages the encourager so i'm fortunate enough to have a good
00:20:47.280 number of people in my life that do that all right so basically the encourager is someone who's you can
00:20:51.080 go to who's going to give you those high fives give you the pats on the back saying hey you're doing
00:20:55.400 a good job things aren't as bad as you think because i think everyone has had those moments where man
00:20:59.420 everything's just terrible i'm not doing well an encourager probably brings some objectivity to
00:21:05.760 the scene because they say actually things aren't as bad as you think they are you're actually doing
00:21:09.520 pretty dang good that's what they're doing for you yeah they're always rooting for you it's that
00:21:12.880 person even when you have a bad day even when you messed up if you go to go have a a walk with them
00:21:18.320 or a beer with them they're not going to sit there and tell you everything you did wrong they may just
00:21:22.120 sit there with you yeah they may just be there with you know that i'm here and sometimes those two
00:21:26.560 words are powerful i'm here okay so this could be a spouse could be a friend could be a colleague
00:21:31.300 the next ally is the playmaker what is the playmaker the playmaker is that person that we all have in
00:21:38.500 our life that you know in some shape or form they're making some great things happen it's that person that
00:21:43.760 has that infectious energy and when you need a jolt you know of creativity energy or motivation they are
00:21:50.060 your go-to person the playmaker is interesting because they move fast and they don't have a lot of
00:21:56.040 patience for for indecision they regularly make decisions they're that person that reminds you
00:22:02.020 that if you miss a shot just keep shooting you know these days when i think about the playmaker
00:22:08.280 and this may be a bit polarizing for some people i think about people like steph curry or i think about
00:22:13.640 even someone like elon musk like whether you like these people or not one thing they're going to keep
00:22:20.980 doing they're going to keep shooting they're going to keep thinking big and they're going to keep
00:22:25.700 getting after it and i think we need people in our life to keep us fired up in that regard
00:22:31.400 so these people they're they are you're looking to the playmaker to model proactivity and like an
00:22:37.940 action-oriented bias towards life 100 they keep you moving forward thinking forward they're not going
00:22:45.600 to let you soak on what that how you messed up what happened yesterday etc and again they have good
00:22:51.000 things going on in their life so that they're a great model to keep moving and to dream big and
00:22:55.960 to think big as you're describing the playmaker i imagine that older men would probably find their
00:23:03.600 playmaker in a younger guy right it's like you know an older guy they've probably done it all they've
00:23:08.780 probably feel like they kind of you kind of become complacent but a younger guy they've got nothing to
00:23:13.600 lose so they're more willing to take those big actions those big risks i think there's something
00:23:17.700 to having those relationships with younger individuals because it i don't know if it
00:23:22.060 reminds you it's kind of weird i'm like i'm hitting i'm getting to middle age now so i'm like thinking
00:23:26.200 about that sort of stuff yeah but it reminds you like yeah you can still take action there's something
00:23:31.160 about the energy you get from those younger people that can can spur you on as well yeah i think
00:23:36.100 reverse mentoring is so important but odds are we probably can think of certain stages in our life
00:23:41.180 where we were that playmaker i mean i can still think back to moving to new york city
00:23:45.060 with less than a thousand dollars in my bank account with dreams of breaking into the television
00:23:49.260 industry and i was hungry i was bold i was courageous i was optimistic i think a lot of times
00:23:55.560 it's funny now that you say that a lot of times when people say things like i miss the old days what
00:24:01.340 they're really saying is i miss who i was how i showed up in the old days because i don't show up
00:24:07.940 like that person anymore right so having yeah that that playmaker kind of remind you about that
00:24:13.520 can help you get that back exactly okay so we got encourager we got playmaker the next ally
00:24:20.040 you've described is the facilitator who's this guy the facilitator is that person they see the
00:24:25.680 they always can see the big picture and they can support you and let's say in managing the flow
00:24:31.080 of information i mean you can probably think about this person kind of like a project manager
00:24:35.420 that they're really good at knowing when you can speed things up or when you can slow things down
00:24:41.360 they can see things that you probably can't see because they're seeing the big picture they're
00:24:46.980 also a great connector and they can provide really sound guidance and advice so who are the facilitators
00:24:54.720 in your life i have a few facilitators in my life one of the key facilitators in my life is a dear
00:25:01.040 buddy of mine basam whenever i get in the muck i get stuck in the rut with an amazing skill he can
00:25:09.260 unpack all of that and help me see the bullet points and the connections and things that that i can't
00:25:15.000 see basam is brilliant at that in many ways my father prior to him getting dementia he was that person
00:25:22.560 for me as well that could could see that all right so the facilitator is the guy you're going to go into
00:25:26.900 when you get stuck with a problem you don't know how to move forward and they're there basically to
00:25:32.440 bring new perspective help you they're able to connect dots that you otherwise couldn't see or
00:25:38.340 other people couldn't see like that's what they do that's it that's the point guard on the basketball
00:25:43.320 floor uh they're they're guiding the temple of things they're at the top of the key they can see
00:25:48.280 things that you can't oh there's there's a double team over there let's call a brand new play
00:25:52.460 to get you open to create an isolation sorry to get nerd on basketball but yeah they're that point
00:25:57.160 guard and so this could be a friend it could be a father this could also be i don't know it could be
00:26:01.360 a consultant you go to as well who specializes in like because everyone's probably if you own a
00:26:06.740 business your your problem if you run a restaurant it's going to be different if you run i don't know
00:26:13.360 like you make metal siding for example so you might want to try to find a facilitator in your
00:26:19.220 respective field of work oh 100 you know right now we're talking so much personal about this but one
00:26:25.500 what another way to look at this is a board of directors or a personal board of advisors that's
00:26:32.540 one thing that board of directors do i have opportunity i've worked for startups i've covered
00:26:36.640 startups as a journalist when i was a reporter and correspondent with nbc hosting a business show
00:26:41.660 for over three years and one thing that they have are these amazing boards of directors sometimes
00:26:46.940 there are six people sometimes there are 12 people and one thing about those six to 12 people
00:26:51.220 they all have different skill sets they don't they don't need three uh facilitators or four
00:26:57.880 encouragers that they bring each person in for their individual strength that they can bring to
00:27:02.840 provide expertise to this team who's looking to grow scale increase revenue etc all right so we
00:27:09.100 got encourager we talked about playmaker we talked about the facilitator the next ally is the rock
00:27:13.480 what's this guy look like the rock is the veteran you know that's that person that when all hell is
00:27:19.380 breaking loose that they're that person that helps remind you what's most important and to provide you
00:27:24.700 with perspective this is that person who has been there and they've done it right they've been there
00:27:30.660 they've done it they're probably a veteran in some regard they're a little bit older you need this
00:27:35.040 person to help keep you grounded and supported and they help you provide you know alignment when you
00:27:41.340 think about your visions and your different goals when i think about the rock i think about star wars
00:27:46.880 you know i think about someone like obi-wan kenobi for some reason when i think about the rock when i
00:27:52.260 visualize what this person can be i think about you know someone like morgan freeman just that voice
00:27:57.720 you know provides perspective the rocks in my life are individuals that are you know much older than i am
00:28:05.220 most of them you know people have worked in fields like i have that can provide me expertise and
00:28:10.180 guidance whether it's in in the book world whether it's in parenting whether it's in leading a community
00:28:16.480 so i have those people and they've done it they've checked it off of the box and there's not much
00:28:21.760 that's going to surprise them they've heard and and seen it all all right so rock possibly an older
00:28:27.040 mentor now the playmaker is a younger mentee who mentors you exactly exactly i've never framed it
00:28:35.440 directly like that but that that's exactly what it is i like that all right so the next one is the
00:28:41.300 next alley is the last one is the bruiser who's this guy oh the bruiser this is the one we tend to
00:28:46.940 avoid the bruiser is that person that straight up always holds you accountable like they they hold you
00:28:54.260 accountable to do what you said you're going to do if you tell them like oh i'm gonna write a book
00:28:59.420 the next question they're going to ask is by when when will it be finished the bruiser are people
00:29:05.460 that are that are metrics based and they measure success kind of by the progress you do or or don't
00:29:11.540 make they're that person that provides you know good good friction uh i'm laughing because now i'm
00:29:17.400 thinking about liam neeson like in that movie taken the bruiser let me give you a real life example
00:29:22.760 of a bruiser i have a dear friend of mine i remember living in new york city and i was hanging out with
00:29:26.800 some friends that we went to go get a happy hour and my goal was to have one drink but you know what
00:29:32.400 happens you have that one drink and then your buddies your friends are saying come on just have
00:29:35.660 one more just have one more and i was about to have one more drink but there was something i wanted to
00:29:40.720 do at home and finish that night and my buddy came up to me and he said antonio don't worry about them
00:29:46.740 are they going to finish that project that you need to finish tonight no they're not going to you
00:29:53.300 don't have to make any excuses to go do what you need to do get out of here just having someone
00:29:58.360 like that in your life it can be a game changer and i have a few of those people and we all need
00:30:04.700 that person that's going to provide some some good friction on us all right so the bruiser is the guy
00:30:09.140 that holds you accountable to your goals yeah and i think one thing i want to make sure everyone
00:30:13.900 knows is as we describe these five you know types of people i want people to remember that you know
00:30:19.800 these types of allies these aren't always going to be our best friends these aren't going to be
00:30:24.780 people that we talk with every single day or kick it with all the time but when it's time to you know
00:30:29.580 quote-unquote play ball these are the folks that they're they're open for you to reach out to them
00:30:33.900 and they're going to bring out the best in you but they don't necessarily have to be like
00:30:39.060 your quote-unquote best friends and people you talk to every single day and i actually think it would
00:30:44.100 be counterproductive in some instances for them to be your best friend because like when you have a
00:30:48.100 friendship with somebody it brings in an element of you know you don't you don't want to hurt the
00:30:53.520 person's feelings or you don't want to you want to maintain the relationship right that's important
00:30:57.840 which is that's normal and natural some of these roles like the bruiser type or the playmaker they
00:31:03.860 might ask you or push you to do things that if you had a friendship with him would strain the
00:31:08.640 relationship but would you need to do it nonetheless because it would be good for your either professional
00:31:14.680 or personal goals i agree i mean i think about you think about relationships with say your spouse
00:31:19.900 i can't tell you how many times my wife has made suggestions to me to do x y or z and then i'm on
00:31:26.580 a road trip and i'm like oh honey i was talking to somebody on a plane and they said i should do this
00:31:31.920 or stop doing that and she's like well i've been telling you that for the past six months but it's so
00:31:37.560 funny how sometimes when we hear that advice somewhere else we're willing to take heed to it and listen to it
00:31:42.960 but sometimes when it's super close to it as you mentioned it doesn't have the same effect
00:31:47.460 well i've seen that in my own the life of my own kids especially my son you know i'll tell him hey
00:31:52.780 you should do this thing he's like yeah yeah yeah whatever but then when some other grown man says hey
00:31:57.500 you should do this thing he's like oh yeah that's the best idea in the world that's why didn't i think
00:32:02.020 of that before and it's like okay and i mean that's why i love it when my my son interacts with
00:32:07.820 other men who their goal is to grow and develop you know good young men because like my son's more
00:32:15.180 likely to listen to that guy as opposed to me like i i want this i want the support i want the help
00:32:20.520 i remember i had this experience a couple years ago when i wasn't coaching flag football my son's team
00:32:25.940 but there's another guy coaching and this guy was great he's a firefighter and at the end of practice
00:32:30.480 he would like teach a life skill so he was like teaching the boys how to shake hands and look people in
00:32:34.920 the eye and i remember this dad standing next to me he's like this is dumb why would you like i do
00:32:39.200 that to my kid and i was like man i want my son to like have that reiterated over and over again i'm
00:32:44.380 glad this guy's doing it because he's probably more likely to listen to that guy as he is to me
00:32:48.420 i'm so glad you just shared that i mean first i'm going to adopt that i coach i help coach my son's
00:32:53.600 baseball team and just learning that important life skill that that is so critical and something i've
00:32:59.580 learned coaching my son's baseball team which by the way has been one of the biggest challenges
00:33:03.360 of my life i'll never forget when the head coach was out one day and i was so excited
00:33:07.520 to lead practice and it was the most the biggest hot mess i've ever experienced with some some six
00:33:13.320 year olds but one thing i learned in coaching is that me and some dads one thing we do in practice
00:33:17.900 and at games is we focus on the other person's kid so paul will focus on my son i'll focus on paul's
00:33:24.920 son etc and to your point when paul is coaching my son my friend you know or i'm coaching his son
00:33:31.220 etc they listen so much better so sometimes i have to back away and allow that space for that
00:33:37.960 to happen and not be mad at it be happy about it and it's fun to observe them from a distance and see
00:33:43.060 how they show up with others yeah it's because i because the relationship gets in the way right
00:33:47.220 because like they're you and your son are so worried about yeah i'm gonna make my son feel bad or i'm gonna
00:33:52.500 disappoint dad that it ends up the the coaching just goes nowhere but if you have an outside person
00:33:58.080 doing it there's not that weird strained relationship thing going on yeah i agree and it makes me think
00:34:03.480 about this is kind of unrelated but related it said someone once said your children reserve their
00:34:08.700 worst behavior for you but they show up amazing for other people right so here's a question do these
00:34:16.840 different allies they need to be different people or could they like one person have take on two or
00:34:22.500 three of these roles i think sure depending upon the context and situation sure i think folks can play
00:34:28.020 a lot of different roles we all have different seasons in our life when different things are
00:34:32.960 taking place uh you know i'm playing certain roles with people right now as a father to new fathers that
00:34:39.060 i couldn't do obviously a few years ago now that my business is a different place i can provide some
00:34:43.760 mentoring and some tips to folks that in the past i probably couldn't and yes i do have some people in
00:34:48.860 my life that that can definitely fit multiple buckets here that i'm willing to lean on on different
00:34:54.520 topics i think the key thing is just knowing in your head like what do i most need right now that's
00:35:00.500 a question very rarely do i ask ourselves it's a great coaching question what do i most need right
00:35:05.120 now when you ask yourself that question you can identify do i need a bruiser right now do i need an
00:35:10.120 encourager a playmaker and then you can act accordingly and contact that person but here's the thing we have to
00:35:15.660 remember that nine times out of ten if not ten times out of ten people are willing to help us
00:35:21.640 like right now people are like i don't know what you're talking about and people are willing to help
00:35:25.760 us and we must be willing to ask for that help the hardest step in making this happen is picking up
00:35:31.940 the phone and making a phone call or sending an email once you do that things get pretty easy
00:35:36.180 so there's something i want to flesh out there i think it's really important what you're saying with
00:35:40.760 these allies isn't that you could have you need to have all five of these allies at all times in your
00:35:44.940 of your life it is depending on what where you are in your life you might need this particular person
00:35:50.040 doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't mean you need to have an encourager playmaker facility or rock
00:35:53.640 bruiser right now it could be like this moment in your where you are in your life maybe you just need
00:35:57.920 a rock or maybe you need an encourager and find those people yes and i'm like to your point
00:36:03.460 intentionally right now i'm investing a lot of time first adding value to these people but also learning
00:36:09.300 from a lot of quote-unquote playmakers right now like this is a season for me to to think a little
00:36:14.620 bit bigger in what i'm doing to add a zero to things if you will coming out of the past few years
00:36:21.440 where i felt myself a bit you know on cruise control some so i'm spending a lot more time with
00:36:26.720 these playmakers that are have made great things happen or continuing to make good things happen but
00:36:31.860 right i'm not always going to have all five people in my life at the exact same time and then the other
00:36:37.380 point you're making you made as well i want to just make sure people see that not only look for
00:36:41.900 these allies and other people but also turn the question back on yourself it's like well how can i
00:36:47.240 be one of these allies for the people in my life oh we have to we have to make sure we're adding value
00:36:53.940 we're providing that support how we can be this type of you know folk this type of individual for others
00:36:59.400 and i just want to remind people that these people exist in our life because a lot of people are saying
00:37:03.480 that's great but where do i find those people and we can talk more about that but i'll just say right
00:37:07.860 now you know former colleagues former classmates people that are you're connected to on linkedin
00:37:13.580 people you have met at events etc these people do exist in our lives but it just takes a little
00:37:18.940 effort to to find them well let's talk about how to flush that because i think a lot of guys have
00:37:22.860 difficulty making friends or expanding their professional or social network any like some brass
00:37:28.500 tech tips that people can do to find these allies sure first and foremost if you're just getting
00:37:34.440 started again if you've been isolated for a long time like so many people if you've been disconnected
00:37:39.060 i want to give yourself some grace some permission to have some grace and to be patient and funny enough
00:37:44.560 when it comes to making friends and creating communities like this especially as we get older it's kind of
00:37:51.720 like dating you know making new friends creating communities like this so we have to be patient
00:37:56.600 you know we have to be interested we have to make sure we're also adding value not just taking from
00:38:01.760 someone and again it takes time so so patience is key so just some practical suggestions just to
00:38:08.660 surround yourself with allies just to have a good community around you the cool thing is that if you
00:38:14.680 have a hobby or a passion that you're into there is 100 a community available around it whether it's in
00:38:23.960 person or it's virtual i don't care if it's golf frisbee computer building if you're into flying rc planes or
00:38:33.660 corvettes guns crypto jujitsu i don't care premier league soccer there is a community around it that you
00:38:39.720 can find it goes beyond that faith groups rotary clubs the city council coaching your kids sports teams
00:38:47.200 etc most of these people and these communities that you can opt into which is cool opt into are just a
00:38:55.280 google search away now but that requires some boldness and some courageousness on your part to be willing
00:39:01.320 to do that first search and then to show up and show up again even if that first experience is a little
00:39:07.000 bit odd you feel a little bit rusty and do i really want to hang out with these people and here's here's
00:39:12.700 another practical tip this one we don't talk about enough sometimes you have to write a check
00:39:18.600 like straight up sometimes you have to write a check and you have to invest in yourself by joining
00:39:25.640 a community a dad community or community for professionals or looking to do certain things
00:39:31.580 you have to write a check and invest in a group coaching program club class or something i think we
00:39:37.860 forget that sometimes that things change when we're willing to invest in ourselves and something
00:39:44.020 energetically happens when you write that check or you see that deduction from that monthly membership
00:39:50.520 coming out every single month it makes you show up a little bit differently guess what you're not
00:39:56.280 going to miss that meeting guess what you're not going to miss those office hours or that that happy hour
00:40:02.060 because you are financially vested in being there and the last thing i'll say is if what you want
00:40:09.840 does not exist guess what sometimes you're going to be called to create what you want for yourself
00:40:16.680 you you may just have to create what you need and then invite people and it may start off slow and
00:40:24.140 that's okay but you get that one person that at least to another person etc before you know it you
00:40:28.920 could have a thriving community that's together supporting each other making each other better
00:40:34.160 and celebrating one another's wins so hopefully those are some practical tips that that folks can
00:40:40.360 apply yeah and i was thinking too i i imagine you're not telling people or suggesting that people okay
00:40:45.280 they go out and they join these groups and they see some guy and you're not gonna you're you shouldn't
00:40:49.980 go up to and be like i you know what will you be my playmaker i need you to be my playmaker i don't
00:40:55.260 think it's that it's saying okay you get be social just have a good time as a human being
00:40:59.800 just form friendships form relationships and in the process you're gonna probably see people like
00:41:04.620 this guy this guy's doing stuff so i'd like to just like maybe i'll go out to lunch with him and just
00:41:09.480 talk about what he's doing i'm not i'm not there to like get anything from him i just want to hear
00:41:13.640 what he's doing and then maybe his energy of playmaking will rub off on me i mean i think a lot of times
00:41:18.780 when people hear about networking and creating they either do it really awkwardly or they don't do it
00:41:23.380 because it feels awkward it doesn't have to be awkward i think this what you're providing here
00:41:27.540 is a framework that you can lay over on relationships like oh this guy you know he's he's a really great
00:41:34.260 guy i enjoy spending time with him but he's also a facilitator type and he could help me my business
00:41:38.800 in this area see what i'm getting at i'm not i'm not trying i think i'm trying to avoid people like
00:41:42.920 being like yeah just going up to be like hey i need you to be my rock and people like what that's
00:41:47.080 weird i don't want you to that's get away from me weirdo yeah please don't please don't do that
00:41:51.980 that's exactly not what we're saying when we go into things with with an agenda people can feel
00:41:57.520 that they they can smell that they don't want to be around it however if we show up to any of these
00:42:02.760 types of communities with the intention of learning of growing and adding value so many things can
00:42:10.680 spawn from that that's why it's again once again we have to be patient what i want for all of us is
00:42:16.540 that as you mentioned earlier what shows up when you show up i want us to be associated with
00:42:21.160 greatness when when people think about us i want a smile to come on their face i want them to
00:42:25.160 associate with us with greatness and as i've built relationships around the my lifetime that have
00:42:31.400 made a key difference in my life i wouldn't be talking to you now i wouldn't have experienced all
00:42:35.520 the amazing things i have in my career without the relationships that i made the key thing i did is
00:42:41.260 i built relationships is i would always go into meetings coffees cocktails events and my energy has
00:42:47.420 always been i want to learn as much about you i want to learn as much about your story genuinely want
00:42:53.400 to learn about these individuals who i spend time with and one thing about that is people love to talk
00:42:58.520 about themselves they love to share and we can learn so much from someone else's story path etc and here's
00:43:05.460 what's amazing once you do that at some point during that conversation or another conversation down
00:43:10.760 the road that person's going to say enough about me tell me about you what are you up to what are you
00:43:16.360 looking to accomplish how can i be helpful but that only happens once we build that foundational
00:43:21.780 trust which is so essential which people try to circumvent via dms on linkedin or twitter and you just
00:43:30.440 can't do that it takes time so one thing i think it's useful to circle up with here at the end is that
00:43:35.860 while you're looking for these allies in real life you can find this sort of the sort of guidance
00:43:41.200 inspiration from allies in the media you consume so you know podcasts you listen to books you read
00:43:46.540 one thing that i found really useful in my own life is reading the biographies of great individuals
00:43:51.380 and because it gives you a model of a life that you might want and it allows you to look at your life
00:43:58.000 differently and there's this idea that i got from napoleon hill that i really like it's you know
00:44:02.440 create a cabinet of invisible advisors so you think about who are the individuals that i admire
00:44:08.120 and what can they teach me about different facets of my life and so you study them so you know could
00:44:13.800 be teddy roosevelt frederick douglas some great inventors some great media mogul study their lives
00:44:19.380 and then see how you can get inspiration from them to improve your life so i think it's another way to
00:44:24.320 look at allies well antonio this has been a great conversation where can people go to learn more about
00:44:28.480 your work yeah just head on over to the antonionevs.com the antonionevs.com and you can find
00:44:35.540 everything there fantastic well antonio nevs thanks for your time it's been a pleasure
00:44:39.640 appreciate you my guest here is antonio nevs you can find more information about his work at his
00:44:44.520 website the antonionevs.com also check out our show notes at aom.is slash allies where you find
00:44:49.540 links to resources where you delve deeper into this topic
00:44:51.620 well that wraps up another edition of the aom podcast make sure to check out our website at
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00:45:30.120 continues it forward until next time's brett mckay reminds you on a listening one podcast but put
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