The Essential Habits for Becoming an Agile, Vital, and Durable Human Being
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Summary
Dr. Kelly Starrett has trained professional athletes, Olympians, and military special operators, helping them unlock peak performance. But as he approached his 50s, he started to see cracks appearing in the health of the folks around him. What had worked for his peers in their 20s and 30s wasn t working anymore. So he and his wife, Juliet, decided to write a book, Built to Move: The 10 Essential Habits to Help You Move Freely and Live Fully.
Transcript
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Hey, this is Brett. We are rebroadcasting episode number 885, The Essential Habits for Becoming
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an Agile, Vital, and Durable Human Being with Kelly Starrett. Hope you enjoy it. We'll be
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Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast. Kelly Starrett,
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a doctor of physical therapy, has trained professional athletes, Olympians, and military
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special operators, helping them unlock peak performance. But as he approached his 50s,
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he started to see cracks appearing in the health of the folks around him. What had worked for his
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peers in their 20s and 30s wasn't working anymore. They were gaining weight, having surgeries, and
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just didn't feel good. So he and his wife and fellow trainer, Juliet, decided to write a book,
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Built to Move, the 10 Essential Habits to Help You Move Freely and Live Fully, that took all they've
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learned from training elite performers and distilled it into the foundational practices that everyone,
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at every age, can use to develop lasting mobility, durability, and all-around health.
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Today on the show, Kelly unpacks some of those essential physical habits, sharing the vital
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signs, tests that will help you assess how you're doing in that area, as well as daily practices
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that will help you strengthen and improve that capacity. After the show's over, check out our
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All right, Kelly Sturette, welcome back to the show.
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So you've spent your career helping professional athletes, members of the military, achieve elite
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performance. And I think a lot of people, they probably know you for the book you wrote,
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man, it's been almost a decade ago, Supple Leopard, which is just this Bible of different
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movements and things you can do to help you move better so you can perform better. Your new book
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is Built to Move, the 10 Essential Habits to Help You Move Freely and Live Fully. This book is
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focused less on things like setting PRs and more on just what are the building blocks of feeling good
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and being vital overall over your whole lifetime. And in the book, you talk about 10 physical
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practices and then each practice has a test or some metrics that you call vital signs to see how
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you're doing with that habit. And this book really resonated with me. And we were talking before the
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podcast, I turned 40 recently. And in my 30s, I was really powerlifting. That was my thing.
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And I still do it. But what's interesting is when I was 35, 36, I could just go hard all the time
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and recover really fast. Yeah. About two years ago, injuries started popping up and it was like
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tendon stuff, just overuse. Your knee hurts and then your hips are achy. And then in 40, it's the same
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thing. And now my shift has been moving away from performance, right? Trying to deadlift more and
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more and more weight to, I just want to be durable. I just don't want to hurt when I get up out of a
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chair. And it's funny, I was rereading Aristotle, his book on rhetoric. And he goes on this tangent
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about fitness and health and beauty. And it's really poignant. He said this, he says,
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for a man in his prime. And he thought a man in his prime was like, you know, thirties to maybe
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40. It says, for a man in his prime, beauty is fitness for the exertion of warfare together with
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a pleasant, but at the same time, formidable appearance. And I can relate to that. When you're
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in your twenties and thirties, you just want to look jacked. You want to be strong, whatever.
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Then he says, for an old man, beauty and fitness is to be strong enough for such exertion as necessary
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and to be free from pain through escaping the ravages of old age. And that one,
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I resonate with Aristotle on that one. I want to be free from pain, but just strong enough to do what
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I got to do throughout the day. Yeah. You know, here's what's really crazy about that
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is that we're starting to see a generation of young athletes who, you know, follow these principles in
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the book because they found that it really does enhance the short game. And what you're seeing is,
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and what we're appreciating now is that when we are working with young athletes,
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who are making millions of dollars, they realize if they can control their sleep and their minimum
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ranges of motion, some of these pieces in here, they actually can extend their careers. So it means,
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means a lot of money to them. And then what ends up happening is that universally the athletes we work
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with actually were realized they can go harder and they're actually capable of more. And remember,
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this is a laboratory. So what I'm transferring that to myself now is, you mean, I can get to Friday
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night and feel like I'm not just smoked, that in the afternoons I can get home from my job and
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actually be more present for my partner and my kids. Okay. I'm in. When my friends say,
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Hey, we're going for a pickup bike ride or basketball game. I feel like I'm not going to injure myself to
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do that. So these 10 behaviors, you know, we chose these 10 because they're the hinges that open the
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biggest doors. And simultaneously, if you're not interested in exercise, you don't identify with
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powerlifting, you don't identify with diet culture. We realized that there's a lot you can do to begin
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to have a conversation with your body. So you don't end up, you know, just sort of devastated by
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accident. You took a fall, you lot, you know, your, your bone densities. I mean, just realizing that
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the long game is the short game. And to what your point is, you know, you don't have to feel wretched
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and we really have an empower people. So if we use an example, you know, pain is a great example of
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oftentimes the sort of the fulcrum or the catalyst that initiates a lot of conversations with people
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about their bodies. This pain won't go away. It used to just go away. I just ignore it or take
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somebody pro for a few days and it went away. And suddenly people are realizing, Hey, I'm living with
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this thing all the time. Is this who I am now? Like, should your hips hurt? So a couple of things.
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One is that I want everyone to hear pain is a request for change. Unless you have a clear
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mechanism, mechanism of injury, or you've got something occult going on, like a fever or an
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infection, something obvious, or your pain is interrupting your ability to occupy your role in
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your family or do your job. Those things are medical problems. They're medical emergencies. I
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want you to go get help. Everything else is typical, which means what we've said to a generation of
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people is that pain is a medical problem. So until you're ready to go talk to a doctor or
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a physical therapist about it, it's not, it's not serious or you should just live with it.
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And what we set up people to do is just to go ahead and self-soothe it any way they want with
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bourbon, with THC, with, you know, whatever they could make themselves feel better. And what we're
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trying to do here is say, Hey, look, if we're going to untangle complexity around pain, we need to make
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sure that you're eating enough protein and micronutrients, that you're sleeping and that
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you're moving. And then we can also say, well, Hey, these, these tools that we've discovered over
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the last 15 years to help restore your position and make you bench more, well, they can be redeployed
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for you and your family when someone's Achilles hurts or their knee hurts. And we realize that we
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have this real rich tapestry of options that I can drop into my household without having to engage with
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a physician without being an expert. And I can start to make myself feel better and ultimately use
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that as a catalyst to transform how I'm interacting in my world.
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Okay. So these 10 essential habits, they're great for if you're a young athlete who's keyed in on
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performance, they'll help you with that. But even if you're not interested in that, you just want to
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feel good and vital throughout the day. It's going to work for you too. All right, let's talk about some
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of these. You lay out 10 tests and then with each test or marker habits, you can do on a daily basis
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to help you improve that. The first one you talk about is the sit and rise test. What is this test
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and why do you think it's important? Isn't it great? So this is a test that has been well validated to
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show all cause mortality and all cause morbidity. If you struggle to sit crisscross applesauce on the
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floor and then stand up from that position without putting a knee down or putting a hand down,
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we can't just pop up and down like every five-year-old, right? Ask your kids to do this.
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They'll crush it because it's not about strength. But what you'll see is, holy moly, I'm stiff.
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And that stiffness, I can't access my power. I can't access my shapes. And that means that I have
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fewer movement choices. So I'm like, here, get up and down off the ground, holding this baby. And you're
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like, I can't, I have to hold the baby with two hands. And now I got to put the baby down.
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What you start to see is it has these follow along implications. The number one reason people end up
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in nursing homes, they can't get up and down off the ground independently. And what's notable, I think,
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is one of the things that we know is if we were trying to launch a business, save for retirement,
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train for the world championships, we set a goal and we work backwards from that goal. But we do not
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engage in that thinking towards our own health and behaviors. So if we know that we have this
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simple idea that really is a nice predictor of how you're going to fare as you get older and stiffer
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and weaker, theoretically, none of those things have to be true, by the way, then why don't we,
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one, put it on your radar and show you that, you know, hey, if you got it, no problem, good,
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keep doing what you're doing. But if this was trickier than you thought, or you couldn't do it,
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let's pay attention to that. Because the first order of business for all of our interventions
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is exposure. So the first thing that we're saying is if you're struggling to get up and down off the
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ground, well, what we want you to do is start spending some time on the ground while you're
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watching TV every night. Isn't that simple and reasonable? Sit cross-legged, sit 90-90, kneel,
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it doesn't matter. But if we know that getting up and off the ground ends up being a nice predictor
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of how well and affluently you can move through the world because you have more hip range of motion,
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you can play better pickleball, you can deadlift better, what you'll see is if your lifestyle is
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working for you, you'll ace this test. If your lifestyle is introducing what we call a session
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cost, which is a concept we use when we're looking at how gnarly the session was the day before. So
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you and I go and do some crazy deadlift workout, and the next day I'm crippled and you're not.
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I paid a higher session cost for that, right? My force was down, things hurt, I couldn't do it
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again. Well, we can start applying that session cost idea towards what's going on with my day-to-day
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living, my movement fluency, the workouts I'm doing, and is that costing me in terms of this
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sort of third-party validation test, which is, you know, show me you have some hip range motion.
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Yeah. Okay. So you lay out the test. It's really simple. So everyone can do this right now.
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They're listening to us. You just sit on the floor and then get up off the floor. And what
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Cross-legged. Right. And you start off, you give yourself a score of 10, and then you subtract a
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point if you do one of the following. Brace yourself with your hand or the wall, place a hand on the
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ground, touching your knee to the floor, supporting yourself on the side of your legs, losing your
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balance. And if you do that, you subtract. If you have a low score, it means like, well, you got room for
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I think that's a good point you made about, you know, most people go to nursing homes because
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they can't get up off the ground, right? Because like, as soon as you can't move independently,
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you're going to need 24-7 support care there. And it just usually starts going downhill from
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there. And you hear about, I mean, like when you hear about like an older elderly person,
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they fall down, they break a hip. You think, oh man, this is, this is bad. They're probably
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Sure. You know, not to be macabre here, but one of the greatest predictors of the gnarliest
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things that can happen to you is to break a hip after 70. Like the research is like,
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you die within five. I mean, it's so bad. And you have to understand exactly what you're
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saying. I suddenly lost my mobility. I can't feed myself. I can't move. I'm bedridden.
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I lose my muscle mass. I lose my conditioning. I lose my bone density. I lose my, and then
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my brain starts to go and my social connections start to go. You know, one of the things that
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we're, I think, obsessed with in this culture is like all the hard science, like deadlift
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more wattage poundage, but all of the ancillary things that happen by being in a community
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start to go away. If your world gets smaller, one of the things that's nice about a lot of
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these behaviors in the book, like eating as a family is that we're trying to strengthen
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our social bonds. What we found in COVID was that, holy moly, the brain is a social organ.
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It needs other brains to actually work and be a brain. And what we know is that we need
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stronger families, stronger households that are more connected to each other and more connected
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to their neighbors and their community writ large. And some of those easy ways are to eat
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together and to go walk around and, you know, nod your head at your jerk neighbor. I mean,
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really it's transformative. So what you're seeing is when we start making inadvertent choices from
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lack of choice, because we don't realize we're doing certain things, it starts to take away a lot
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of our movement choice, which ultimately has implications in the kinds of society we find
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ourselves in, in our fifties, sixties, and seventies, eighties, a hundred, you're going to be a hundred
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years old. Fifty-four percent of kids who are in the fifth grade right now are going to be 105.
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And so there's, as you said, to improve on this test, the thing you got to do is just sit on the
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floor more. And there's no- That'd be a great start.
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Yeah. Yeah. And there's no specific way you have to sit, you do crisscross applesauce. I like,
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my favorite one is the 90-90 scene where you kind of put your hips to the side. That feels really
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good. Yeah. You're working on internal rotation there. And, you know, there's a great writer,
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osteopath, I think. And his name is Philip Beach. And he wrote a book called Muscles and Meridians.
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And it really is like functional embryology. Just, you know, I just want to throw it out there
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because I'm a physio and I had to have a bunch of embryology. And if I'd had this book, I'd been
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stoked on it. I would have understood it more effectively. But he believes that one of the
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ways the body tunes itself is that we spend time on the floor. It actually opens up our pelvic floors.
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It restores motion in your low back. It loads tissues. It loads your hamstrings. It keeps your
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hip range of motion good. So you have more movement choice. It's one of the ways that our bodies have
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engaged with the environment for two and a half million years. Look, I'm not pint- Like I live in
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a cool mid-century modern house. I love it. But we have to appreciate that just a few, you know,
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a hundred years ago. We did a lot more sitting on the ground, toileting on the ground, eating on the
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ground, building fires and hanging on the ground. So it's almost like we know intuitively that, okay,
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if this is one of the things that actually helps the body work better, well, it's pretty easy for
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you to watch TV at night and sit on the ground for 30 minutes. Just sit on the ground for a little bit.
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And you'll see that you're like, oh, there's my roller. Maybe I'll roll my calves out.
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But exposing yourself to these bigger ranges of motion and fidgeting around, you'll see
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aggregates. And we start to stack these behaviors. These behaviors start to compound. And if you get
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30 minutes of sitting on the ground seven days a week, you're starting to spend a lot of time
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in these fundamental positions that do things like improve your squat, improve your ability to run up
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the hill, right? Make your back feel better, make your knees feel better, et cetera, et cetera.
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All right. Let's talk about the next vital sign, which is breathing. When you have an
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assessment, the breathe pull test, what's going on there?
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The body oxygen level test. So I think breathing has had its moment, right? It's, you know,
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Wim Hof gets everyone going, Laird Hamilton. We have Patrick McCune of oxygen advantage. There's so
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many great systems. And it's not like the yogis have been talking about this forever.
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But what we discovered was there was a lot of low hanging fruit in terms of improving
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people's VO two max and mechanical ventilation. So this is why this matters. If you come to me as a
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physical therapist, you're like Kelly, I've back pain. There's three things we're going to talk
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about day one, no matter what. We're going to talk about your sleep, because if you're not sleeping
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that eight hours, it's really difficult for me to figure out, is it your brain or is it your body?
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What's happening here? Number two, I'm going to make you walk a lot because I need you to decongest
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your system, your lymphatic system, which is the sewage of your body is built into your
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musculature. And if you move your musculature, you move your sewers. If you don't move your
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musculature, the drains block up. And if you've ever seen a gross sink, that's your body. If you
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don't move that, that backed up sink, you have to flush that stuff. And that's all done through
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movement. So moving, and then we're going to talk about breathing. And what we're going to see is
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if the first motion of the trunk, everyone is obsessed with, it's okay to round your back when
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you deadlift. Of course, your spine is supposed to flex and rotate and twist, but the first movement
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of the spine is breathing. And what we find is that it's a nice indicator of sort of vitality in
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terms of you can find positions that allow you to ventilate more. So it improves your VO2 max,
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but breathing more effectively does things like opens up your upper backs and put your arms over
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your head, makes your low back feel better, allows you to create more intra-abdominal pressure when you
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lift. And as we found out in the last 10 years of really monkeying with breathing,
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that when we got people more CO2 tolerant, which is what the body oxygen level test does,
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it allows people to access more hemoglobin. So one of the things we found, believe it or not,
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is that people who had COVID and smoked, that was a bad deal to have those things, but they were more
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comfortable with lower body oxygen levels in their body. And the reason was, is that they were smoking
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so much that their CO2 levels were really high and had set their brains at being very comfortable with
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these lower oxygen levels. Obviously that's a problem if you can't breathe. But from a performance
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standpoint, what we found is people whose brains were more comfortable running higher CO2 levels,
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those people are actually able to strip off more oxygen off the hemoglobin. So the body oxygen level
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test, this is a simple way of you being aware of how good you are at utilizing what's available to you.
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And so you just hold your breath for as long as you can. You want to, I guess you aim for 30 to 40 seconds.
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Just take a breath, exhale, and then see how long you can go. Because it turns out you've got plenty of
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oxygen on board to hold your breath for two minutes, three minutes, four minutes, five minutes.
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What you don't have is a brain that is going to tolerate the skyrocketing CO2 level. So
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your drive to breathe is actually the rising CO2 level. And what we find is now, because we've been
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doing this long enough with our athletes, is that now we're seeing athletes be able to breathe nose
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only, push 90% of their max heart rate. They're much more efficient. They don't have to burn the sugar.
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But also what we find is, man, if we're going to talk about your neck pain and your jaw pain,
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we need to talk about your breathing and getting you to breathe through your nose,
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getting you to not breathe only up in your neck, like you're, you know, being chased by cocaine bear.
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Those things really end up making a difference in terms of how your brain perceives you and your
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environment and the effectiveness of not yanking on your neck every single time you take a breath.
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So, you know, imagine this, you're on the Peloton bike and you're around it and you want to go
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faster. If I say, get into a position where you can take a bigger breath, you'll automatically
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organize your body in a way where you have better access to your ventilation and better access to
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your diaphragm. And those shapes can be applied to work, to holding my kid, to rucking, to whatever
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And yeah, the practice that you recommend, you just said it there, just start breathing through
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Yeah. That's one of the practices. Super simple. Tape your mouth shut at night. That's become very
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common, but we also have some breathing drills you can do. And here's one of the things that I
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want people to understand is that I think we've become habituated to thinking about all of our
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health behaviors have to occur in these one hour blocks. That's weird. No one has time to go to a
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one hour balance class or one hour breathing class or one hour mobility class. If you do anything,
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I want you to go to the gym. I want you to go to your garage and lift heavy weights. That's what I
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want you to do. But I want you to bury and hide the reps and everything else. So we do a lot of this
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breathing stuff on our warmups, on our daily walks, during while we're spinning up on the bike. It's so
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So the next vital sign is about your hips. And this one, this one really spoke to me because my hips have
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been really achy lately. And so the assessment you have for this is the couch stretch. So tell us about
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this test and what is the couch stretch. You know, if you had to pin me down and say,
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Kelly, what is the one thing I should do from one mobilization? I am obsessed with you being able to
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take your hip into extension. So if you imagine a lunge position, lunge shape, that's hip extension.
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So standing up from a squat is extending your hip, but actually taking your hip into extension
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is the magic. And what we find is that the way we train the session cost of our day-to-day lives,
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we see that people are pretty ineffective at having good full hip extension and having control in that
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hip extension. So what we're seeing here is that there's a lot of knee pain and a lot of back pain
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that's a symptom of not being able to extend your spine or extend your hip. So your knee behind butt is
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really the magic. It's not knees over toes. It's can you get this knee behind your butt and the couch
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stretch? If you've never done it before, you can just Google couch stretch. We invented it so that
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we could get people doing it while they're watching TV. And basically you start on the ground. This is
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the full couch. You put your knees up against the wall. Your back is away from the wall and you put
00:22:20.920
your shin in the corner where the wall meets the floor. So your foot is pointing towards the ceiling
00:22:26.460
and you're kneeling away from the wall. And then you bring your other foot up into a lunge. So it looks
00:22:31.280
like sort of an exaggerated run shape, except your leg is bent up. Then I want you to do a squeeze your
00:22:36.940
butt, take five breaths. Can you raise yourself higher and get yourself more torso upright? Take
00:22:41.820
five breaths and squeeze your butt. And then ultimately, can you go straight up and down? And what we find is
00:22:47.140
people really struggle because their quads are so stiff, hip is so stiff, their butts turn off.
00:22:53.060
That's one of the reasons now why you're running and it's wobbling your back and your hamstrings are
00:22:57.940
stiff all the time because they're doing all the work that your glute should be doing.
00:23:01.120
So if we can get people to improve this, it's amazing how many things start to feel better.
00:23:06.240
And then the daily practice for that test, you just do the test. Like you just do the couch stretch
00:23:10.520
You could. We also throw in some isometrics, show you where you can spend some time
00:23:14.900
the end of your day or during the day, just put your hip into extension a little bit. You know,
00:23:19.560
while you're washing dishes, while you're hanging out, squeeze your butt,
00:23:22.080
just do some isometrics, hold that for 30 seconds. We also realized that this is a great place to do
00:23:27.140
some soft tissue mobilization. So you can get on the ground while you're watching TV,
00:23:31.220
roll out your quads, roll out your hips, and you'll see that those systems start to improve.
00:23:36.760
We're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors.
00:23:44.020
And now back to the show. Let's talk about shoulders. Another problem that a lot of
00:23:48.000
guys experience as they get older. Shoulders are weird, a weird thing. It's incredible. It's got
00:23:53.040
this amazing range of motion, but it can get jacked up really bad. What are the most common
00:23:59.700
shoulder problems you see in, you know, the regular Joe athletes you come across?
00:24:04.360
Well, you know, what's interesting is think about it this way. You have the brain, which is the most
00:24:09.880
complex structure in the known universe. Seriously, it is attached to a structure that is equally as
00:24:17.520
sophisticated. So this brain body thing we'll walk around in is the most extraordinary structure in
00:24:23.000
the known universe. And your shoulder, let's just start by saying is designed to last a hundred years
00:24:28.440
easily. So when you suddenly throw an air signal and your shoulder hurts, we want you to understand
00:24:34.800
that, you know, A, that's not typical. It's a request for change. Well, what change are we
00:24:40.000
talking about? Well, no one on the planet connects range of motion to pain. And there can be a lot of
00:24:47.140
things. Nothing could change. You could have incomplete range of motion. Shoulders don't hurt.
00:24:50.580
All of a sudden you have a baby. You're sleep deprived. You have a deadline at work. You smash a
00:24:56.460
bunch of pizza. You drink some beer. It doesn't matter whatever the stressors are. And your shoulder
00:25:00.720
starts hurting. And you're like, what happened? Nothing happened except your brain became
00:25:04.780
much more sensitive to your lack of tissue quality or your inability to express normal range of
00:25:12.660
motion. So what we have here is a really important system. I think most people can recognize or wrap
00:25:19.020
their heads around that if we were going to talk about your low back health, we really should be
00:25:23.300
talking about what's going on with your pelvis and your leg too, right? It's weird how you have big
00:25:27.860
muscles that attach from your spine to your leg and no one looks at how well your leg moves. So if your
00:25:32.380
leg doesn't move well on your body, it can be yanking, it can be tensioning, it can just be putting
00:25:37.980
mechanical input into your lower spine. So that's why we look at the spine, the pelvis, and the leg
00:25:43.540
as a system. Well, there's the same system upstream. It's your neck, it's your thoracic spine,
00:25:49.640
your chest, and your shoulder. They make a trifecta of positions. So if I want to improve your neck pain,
00:25:55.260
I got to look at your shoulder range of motion. If I want to look at your shoulder range of motion,
00:25:58.880
I also need to look at how well your thoracic spine works. Remember I told you already we're
00:26:02.600
moving in that direction because we're getting you to take big breaths and breathe in your upper back?
00:26:06.800
Well, what we're doing here is we've got some simple tests for you around some key range of
00:26:13.480
motion positions and some isometrics that are easy to get you started on untangling what feels like a
00:26:20.020
complicated system. It's not that complicated. Yeah, you got two tests. My favorite was the one where you
00:26:24.220
lay on the floor on your back and then you see how far you can get your arm back basically.
00:26:31.100
Yeah, basically it's an I, Y, and T. But really in that situation where if your just elbows are out
00:26:36.900
to your side at 90 degrees and you flex the back of your hand to the ground, we're looking at how
00:26:40.840
much force you can create there. And what you see is if you're struggling to get to that position,
00:26:45.520
you're weak in that position. Well, welcome to your rotator cuff. And a lot of times your rotator cuff,
00:26:51.140
or rotator cuff, depending on which patient is telling you about their shoulder pain,
00:26:56.840
the rotator cuff is this sort of non-specific idea that I have muscles that help rotate my shoulders.
00:27:02.680
Well, we look at a lot of rotation capacity with our athletes and what we see is that when you lack
00:27:09.160
fundamental range of motion in your body, specifically in your shoulders, can't put my arms over my head,
00:27:14.920
can't, you know, achieve some of these fundamental shapes, your force production starts to go down,
00:27:22.080
which means that when you approach some of these positions at high speed, like playing golf,
00:27:26.900
that can be a problem because you see a lot of inhibited musculature, a lot of
00:27:31.760
force production that gets taken away. And now you're just hanging on your tissues.
00:27:37.000
Any daily practices that people can do to help their shoulder health?
00:27:40.920
There's a lot, but like, I mean, what's one or two that you'd recommend, right? Like do these
00:27:45.200
and you'll be good. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. If we look at our movement traditions,
00:27:49.760
you know, if you've, everyone listening has probably gone to a yoga class once. And when
00:27:53.160
you're in there, you're like, holy crap, these people love downward dog. Why is downward dog so
00:27:58.120
important? And I mean, you do so much downward dog, downward dog, downward dog. Well, downward dog is
00:28:04.220
an overhead position. So if there's one thing you could do is at least once a day, put your arms over
00:28:10.260
your head, hang from a door jam, put your arms over your head, take some breaths. If you have a pull-up
00:28:14.560
bar, which you should have in your house, hang from your pull-up bar. I cannot tell you how hanging
00:28:19.840
will fundamentally change your life. Hang with different grips. You don't even have to hang
00:28:24.000
with your feet all the way off the ground. Put a pull-up bar in your kid's doorway, but it's secretly
00:28:29.640
for you. We have a pegboard in our garage. We've got pull-up bars all over the outside inside the
00:28:35.300
house, in our garage. And just hanging will transform your shoulder function, transform
00:28:41.280
your upper back. If you're getting that hump in your upper back and neck, hanging is the
00:28:44.840
solution. What I would direct you to is some kind of shoulder motion every day. And if you
00:28:52.800
did something like sun salutation, cool, that would cover it. But also, if you're really interested
00:28:58.000
in taking the next step on our site, we have something. And even if you Google Kelly Starrett
00:29:03.280
that shoulder spin-up, you will come up. And it's a quick five-minute routine that touches
00:29:08.440
a whole lot of spine-shoulder positions. You don't need any equipment. I use it for all
00:29:12.720
my elite athletes. I teach it to all our teams. And it's just like daily vitamins for your
00:29:17.240
shoulder, even if you're not going to load your shoulder, even if it's a lower leg day.
00:29:20.400
Right. So you're a big fan of the squat, and that's one of your tests. Why is being able
00:29:24.180
to get down into a full squat important for human durability?
00:29:28.920
Isn't that interesting? You know, we look at squatting as exercise, not squatting
00:29:33.040
as movement choice. Lower yourself down off a cliff or a ledge. You're going to have
00:29:38.600
to squat all the way down. You know, one of the things that happens is obviously getting
00:29:43.300
up and down off the ground is useful there. But it's one of the ways where we can start
00:29:48.220
to expose the tissues of the body to their full range. So taking the knee and flexing it
00:29:55.240
all the way. Taking the ankle and flexing it all the way. Letting your back round in that
00:30:00.100
bottom position is really important to normalize the motion of the back. In yoga, for example,
00:30:06.760
they call it malasana. And they're like, it's a pelvic floor mobilization. Well, it turns out
00:30:12.020
your pelvis and your femurs are connected directly to the connective tissue of your pelvis. This
00:30:18.300
is why when you get kicked in the nuts, you feel a stomach ache. So what we're seeing here
00:30:23.260
is that when we restore how people's hips move, it changes the connective tissue muscular systems
00:30:30.000
and restores it to, again, native range. But also what we start to see is, man, you're going to have
00:30:36.180
better choice. You're going to be able to move more effectively. And you'll see things like your
00:30:40.980
wattage improve on the bike. And the test is simple. Get down to a full squat. You want ass to grass.
00:30:46.140
That's right. That's it. I want ass to grass. Ideally, you can do that with your feet straight,
00:30:49.860
but you can even turn your feet out to do that because you may not have the ankle range. But if
00:30:54.200
you fall over and can't get into a full squat, man, that says a lot about you not having full
00:31:00.980
access to the miracles of your body. Again, we're not arguing about squat technique. I'm talking about
00:31:05.640
getting up and down off the ground or taking a poo or waiting for a bus. So this is very much one of
00:31:11.160
those use it or lose it shapes. But the research is clear that people that toilet on the ground sleep
00:31:17.980
on the ground engage in a lot more squatting-like behaviors. And lo and behold, we see less
00:31:23.300
osteoarthritis. We see less hip disease. We see less lumbar disease. It's almost like if we just
00:31:29.360
use our bodies and just touch the ranges once in a while, tell our brains it's safe to be here,
00:31:34.600
we see things like skiing or snowboarding improve.
00:31:37.320
In the practice of that, just squat more. That's something you can do throughout the day. I do that.
00:31:41.100
After I read that chapter, I'm going to start squatting more. I've been squatting
00:31:43.940
during this interview. When you were talking, I was squatting.
00:31:46.600
Oh, I love it. That's what I think is remarkable. There's a lot of opportunities for you to move
00:31:52.200
in a more complete way. And this is what every physical therapist, surgeon, orthopedist on the
00:31:59.580
planet says your hips should be able to do. And if you take all of the range of motion books and
00:32:04.040
you're like, what should the ankle be able to do? It should flex this much. How much should the knee
00:32:07.760
flex? How much should the hip flex? What should happen to the lumbar spine? And then you put them in a
00:32:12.400
blender and shake it up. All those things together end up being a squat.
00:32:16.460
Yeah. My goal is to be like one of those 80-year-old ladies in Southeast Asia.
00:32:21.060
They're just still squatting. I want to be doing that.
00:32:24.160
What's so cool about that is actually it's a really reasonable goal. So anyone who's starting
00:32:28.700
this, for some people, it's going to be a brutal awakening, right? You're like,
00:32:32.000
I thought I was super fit. I'm doing Peloton and I do my quarter squats and I look good naked,
00:32:36.600
but I don't, I can't move very well. And we've certainly seen a hinge move towards movement
00:32:42.080
culture, right? And one of the things that we want everyone to hear is that muscles and tissues
00:32:47.280
are like obedient dogs. And there's no reason. Yes, it's going to be harder to maintain your muscle
00:32:52.880
mass as you get older, but there's no reason you have to lose your range of motion ever at any age.
00:32:59.940
So one of the things you can absolutely do your whole life is actually have access to your range
00:33:06.420
of motion. Cause you can imagine if your elbows got stiff all of a sudden, you're like, well,
00:33:10.020
it's not a big deal. I just can't feed myself anymore. You know what I mean? Like that's crazy.
00:33:14.380
If your life depended on getting up and down, then you would be really good at getting up and down.
00:33:19.200
I was just in Japan with some friends and we were staying at this cool mountain hotel as we were
00:33:23.620
doing some backcountry skiing. And one of our friends got sick and I was like, Hey, I really should not
00:33:28.600
spend a few days in this room with this sick guy. Do you guys have any other rooms? And they were
00:33:33.140
like, we don't. And then we were like, this hotel is huge. We don't have any rooms. They didn't have
00:33:37.680
any white person rooms, Western rooms. What they had was traditional Japanese rooms, but the Americans
00:33:43.380
who've been there before haven't been able to use those rooms because you sleep on the ground on a
00:33:49.200
futon because the table is set for you to kneel and sit cross-legged because the shower is built for
00:33:54.820
you to squat and sit in. The whole thing was organized around a person being able to move
00:34:00.640
through the environment. Even the controls for the room were set up at sitting height. So I was like,
00:34:06.300
Oh, no problem. I got it. And they were like, really? You can do it. Like, look at you. You're
00:34:08.940
a huge guy. And I was like, it's no problem. Trust me. I can, I can squat.
00:34:12.500
Okay. So squatting is one. The next test you talk about is the old man balance test. What is this one?
00:34:17.440
We have this friend named Chris Hinshaw, who is an incredible coach. And he tried to come up with a
00:34:24.140
test where he could beat his kids at. And what this challenge is all about balance. And one of the
00:34:30.800
things that we know is that fall risk in the elderly is gnarly. But when we started working
00:34:37.440
on foot strength and foot capacity and balance in our athletes, worked it into games, made them spend
00:34:44.400
more time on one leg, pressing single leg deadlifts, things like that, man, their athleticism went
00:34:50.040
through the roof. And so what we realized is that we need some better ways to challenge people's range
00:34:55.820
of motion and their balance and control just day to day, little micro balances. Because think about
00:35:00.860
it. Someone falls in your family, like go to this balance class because your balance got so bad.
00:35:05.260
Now you have to go get formal training. That's crazy. Look, here's a simple test for everyone.
00:35:10.080
It's called the SOLEC. Ready for it? Standing one leg, eyes closed. Stand on one leg. Don't put
00:35:16.900
your foot down for 20 seconds. I bet you're going to be shocked at what happens when I take away your
00:35:21.280
eyes. And what turns out is that if your feet are stiff, if your feet are always in foot coffins,
00:35:27.900
shoes, if your feet aren't strong, you're really going to struggle. If you don't have good ankle
00:35:32.480
range of motion, this is going to be difficult for you. And what we're trying to do is just bring this
00:35:36.340
awareness of balance and play should be happening in sports. So if you're riding mountain bikes and
00:35:42.360
playing soccer and pickleball and you're moving your body, chances are this will not be a problem
00:35:47.200
for you. But for a lot of people who are not doing those things, you're going to be shocked at how bad
00:35:52.220
your balance is. And it's only going to get worse unless we play with it. So the old man balance test
00:35:57.020
is really simple. Every time you put your shoes and socks on, do it one leg at a time. So stand on your
00:36:02.440
left leg, put your right sock on, don't put your foot down, put your shoe on, tie it, don't put
00:36:06.880
your foot down. You're going to have to reach down and grab it. You're going to have to balance. And
00:36:10.160
so every single time you put your shoes and socks on, you can practice a little bit of one or two
00:36:15.060
minutes of balance. And I guarantee it's going to kick your butt. Yeah. And then you talk about at
00:36:18.220
your house, you have different just balance things you can do. Like maybe you put like, you just could
00:36:22.880
put like a two by four in your house and just nailed it. How about that? You can put a broomstick down
00:36:27.360
and just balance on the broomstick. But you know, I'm a huge fan of having a, like a dynamic work
00:36:35.400
environment where I want choice. I want to be able to perch against a bar stool. I want to stand. I
00:36:39.700
want to, but on the ground, I have a bunch of balance stuff. So I just do this while I'm at work.
00:36:44.160
If I'm on calls, I'm standing on a thing called a slack block, which is like a portable slack line in
00:36:50.500
your house. It's tiny. It doesn't take up any space. I'm standing on one leg balancing on the slack
00:36:56.120
block while I'm talking on the phone. And so I get so many hours every week of working on my
00:37:01.380
balance. Does it improve my biking? Yes. Does it improve my skiing? Yes. Does it improve my lifting?
00:37:05.640
Yes. Another practice you talk about is just standing more, walking more, moving more throughout
00:37:11.580
the day. If you have a desk job, it doesn't have to be that you're in a chair eight hours. There's
00:37:17.640
different ways you can work, right? Yes. And if you look, I don't talk about this much, but
00:37:22.960
I had the great pleasure of working with a former US president. I've worked with and supported a
00:37:29.440
couple of presidents. And this one president was pretty prolific book writer, but could not write
00:37:35.540
at a standing desk. So what we had to do is create an environment for this former president
00:37:41.080
to get more movement at the desk because he felt like his best writing happened when he was still.
00:37:47.840
And so that meant we needed to make sure that we were introducing a place to put his foot and a
00:37:52.340
chair that wiggled more. And what I want you to realize is that we didn't come up with this
00:37:58.360
arbitrarily. Harvard defines sedentary lifestyle as sitting more than six hours a day. That's an
00:38:04.500
aggregate. That's all you're sitting. That means driving in the car, picking up your kids, all of
00:38:09.500
that. So what we're trying to do is not battle our physiology, but it turns out, so right now I'm
00:38:15.620
talking to you at a standing desk, but I'm actually perching on a bar stool. So I've got my foot on the
00:38:22.100
ground, I got one foot up. And in this position, because I'm perching and I'm not sitting, I'm
00:38:27.100
actually above this thing called one and a half metabolic equivalents, which is how much energy my
00:38:33.160
body is using to just function in the background. But the sedentariness is that falling below that
00:38:39.540
one and a half. So sitting in most chairs, you fall below one and a half. And that's what we're
00:38:45.280
trying to not do. I need you to accumulate enough non-exercise activity that you actually fall asleep.
00:38:52.060
One of the things that we found was that a lot of people were working out, weren't actually moving,
00:38:56.940
still didn't actually get enough sleep or find they had enough sleep pressure. What we found was that
00:39:03.360
working with Delta Force, of all the technology that they had access to, they had their guys walk
00:39:10.260
12,000 to 15,000 steps a day in addition to their training, and it knocked down all their insomnia
00:39:15.540
problems. It really started to make everything better. So if you want to adapt better to your
00:39:19.540
training, you want to fall asleep faster, you want to feel better, we need to look at how much your total
00:39:24.680
movement is and conversely, how to limit your total sedentary time. And this does a lot of things. It's
00:39:30.820
going to clear out your systems. You talked about that earlier. Motions, lotions, so you're going to move
00:39:34.840
and not feel achy. And then, yeah, I think the sleep component is really important. I've noticed
00:39:39.660
that as well. When I move more, I have the best sleep. Like the best sleep of my life was when Kate
00:39:45.000
and I went to Italy for, I don't know, she was doing some sort of school thing. Went to Italy. You walk
00:39:50.800
around Rome all day. You walk 20,000, 30,000 steps a day. Probably, yeah. It was like, it was insane the amount
00:39:55.700
we walked. And I remember we got to the hotel, just laid down. We were like, oh, we're taking a nap.
00:39:59.820
And we were, it was like 15 hours later. You know, kids come back from summer camp and they're
00:40:04.980
just exhausted and sunburned. That's the game, but for adults. And you just really nailed it.
00:40:10.580
And what I want people to understand is we can come at this any way you want. But one of the ways
00:40:16.320
that's important to me is that it's a hidden calorie burner in my day. So I love dessert. I love ice
00:40:23.120
cream. I love cookies. I'm never going to turn those things down ever. If they're combined, it's even
00:40:28.160
better. But when we wrote Deskbound, my wife found a little like conversion, a little calculator. And
00:40:34.620
if she just stood and didn't sit at her, just during her workday, in the course of a year was
00:40:40.560
a hundred thousand calories. I outweigh her by almost a hundred pounds. That's 170,000 extra calories
00:40:47.540
I burn every year. That's like 35 marathons. And all I have to do is just not sit while I'm working.
00:40:53.540
I'm talking about perching, fidget, messing around, walk a little bit. And notice that we
00:40:59.120
didn't say you have to get 10,000 steps. We saw that all of the benefits really start to kick in
00:41:03.500
at six to 8,000 steps, which is really reasonable. If you just start throwing in short walks after your
00:41:09.260
meals, you take a call, you go for a little stroll in your neighborhood. It's easy to get six to 8,000
00:41:14.280
steps, but the average adult gets less than three. So it's difficult for me to be sensitive to your foot
00:41:20.580
pain and your Achilles and your junky tissues. If you're not moving more during the day, which
00:41:25.440
means you just have to be more conscious of it. And this is important. This daily movement is
00:41:29.320
important, particularly for those who are, I just said, exercising regularly. Because they're
00:41:32.380
thinking, well, I'm good. I got my hour of cardio in. I got my hour of weight training in, but you're
00:41:36.380
probably still sedentary. That's right. Yeah. And if you've ever flown on an airplane and look down,
00:41:43.160
you're like, why do my ankles? I have cankles. What's up? My ankles are swollen. That's what
00:41:47.280
we're talking about. Your lymphatic system is backing up. Because you didn't move your muscles,
00:41:54.380
you ended up collecting fluid in your ankles. That is edema. But really what's happening there
00:42:00.980
is that it's failure of, that's why they're, you know, if you ever go in the hospital, they're like,
00:42:04.720
pump your legs, do calf pumps. Here are these things. We don't want you to get a DVT. That deep
00:42:09.560
vein thrombrosis happens because people are sedentary in the hospital and they're so freaked out about it.
00:42:14.780
They hire a physical therapist to come in and tell you to wiggle your feet.
00:42:18.980
Okay. So we talked about movement. Can you get your steps in? Don't sit down all day. Don't
00:42:22.980
have to stand up all day, but just move around. You've mentioned sleep. If you're having problems
00:42:26.880
with sleeping, moving a lot will help you sleep. Nutrition. What role does nutrition,
00:42:30.860
you're a physical therapist, and one of the first things you ask is, what are you eating?
00:42:34.280
What role does nutrition play in recovery and just our ability to move well?
00:42:38.040
You know, nutrition for better, for worse has become identity politics for so many people and
00:42:45.200
it's identity and it's a hobby and it's a sport and it's a full contact sport. If you get on the
00:42:49.560
internet and talk about your diet universally, what we can start to say is everyone on the planet has
00:42:57.400
protein minimums. You should get this amount of protein and it really reasonable amount for everyone
00:43:03.960
is 0.7 grams per pound of body weight, which turns out if you're sedentary, that's probably enough.
00:43:11.180
But if you're over 50 or you're exercising or trying to change your body composition,
00:43:15.800
it probably is a little bit closer to one gram per pound body weight. So your keto, cool. Your
00:43:22.000
carnivore, cool. Your paleo, cool. Your whole 30, cool. Your vegan or vegetarian, cool. Just show me you
00:43:26.540
get this much protein. And what we find is if you're trying to change your body composition or you're
00:43:31.080
trying to recover, but you don't have the building blocks on hand to do that, you're not going to see
00:43:36.960
the gains you want either way for body composition or otherwise. But the other part of that is that
00:43:43.320
based on some really good data, we find that people don't get enough micronutrients. There is not a
00:43:48.760
single study in the world that says improving your fiber intake doesn't improve your health.
00:43:53.440
Well, the easiest way to do that is actually eat fruits and vegetables. And so what we found is based
00:43:57.360
on one of our friends, EC Sinkowski, her company is at Optimize Me Nutrition. She has something called
00:44:03.300
the 800 gram challenge. And every single day she challenges people to eat 800 grams of fruits and
00:44:09.280
vegetables. And you're like, I don't like vegetables. Cool. Eat it in fruits. I don't eat apples. Cool.
00:44:13.200
You do it in berries and rutabaga. I don't really care. But it turns out when we get more micronutrients
00:44:18.880
in, all the polyphenols, all the vitamins, all the minerals, you can do that with four big apples a day.
00:44:24.560
But when we get into people's diets and we're trying to talk about soft tissue health and
00:44:29.540
connective tissue health and brain health, whatever it is, low gut health, turns out fiber
00:44:35.760
and micronutrients and protein make the basis. For people who are trying to lose weight,
00:44:40.960
when we ask them to eat more and expand their choices, it's the first time in their life they're
00:44:46.340
like, holy shit, I had to eat so much to meet these minimums. We're like, yeah, welcome to it.
00:44:53.120
A pound of cherries is 230 calories. Go ahead and OD. Let me know what happens. What you're
00:44:57.820
going to see is there's so much food available to you. We don't want to be restrictive anymore.
00:45:04.200
If you had a pound of cherries, I think you'd be on the toilet.
00:45:07.260
It's an illustrative point. Eat a pound of melon. Eat four apples. You know what I mean?
00:45:11.040
It really is. And you're suddenly, I'm like, yeah. You know, the other day I went to one
00:45:14.620
Trader Joe's, got myself a flat of blackberries. They're just gorgeous. And I ate the entire
00:45:18.960
thing. It was like 400 grams, 350, 400 grams, like almost half of my micronutrients for the
00:45:26.540
You know, I was like, I love cookies. One cookie from Starbucks is like 350 calories.
00:45:31.960
So what we get is all of this benefit where I'm full, I'm getting all these nutrients.
00:45:38.380
Somehow we demonize fruit. That was ridiculous. We're like, fruit is sugar. What a bunch of horse
00:45:42.720
crap that is. It's not the bananas and apples that are the problem. If you eat more micronutrients
00:45:47.320
and fruits and vegetables and get enough protein, your body will start to turn the lights back
00:45:52.240
So this is great. And then at the end of the book, you have this schedule for people to
00:45:55.420
follow if they're trying to figure out how can I incorporate all this stuff into my day
00:45:58.540
to day. And as you said, like, you don't have to like make time. Like I'm going to do an
00:46:02.200
hour of my built to move routine. No, it's like, yeah, no, just you wake up. I'm going to
00:46:06.680
do this thing. I'm going to get my steps in whenever I'm taking a break or on the phone.
00:46:11.980
I'm going to walk around. I'm going to get down in a squat. You can just do this stuff
00:46:15.780
as like health, health shouldn't be a block on your schedule. It should just be a part
00:46:21.360
Yeah. And you know, what we found is when we handed this thing to our world champion
00:46:26.760
athletes, they were always viewing it through the lens of, I want to go faster. I don't
00:46:30.740
want to do it more often. And they found blind spots that enable them to work harder. And
00:46:35.120
when we applied it and gave this to non-exercisers, like we have some publishers who work with us
00:46:39.860
in the UK who are not exercisers and who like love pork pies, like they don't, they were
00:46:46.520
like, just reading this changed my framework and how I perceived the world around me. And
00:46:52.360
it changed me in making different subtle choices that all compound over time to really make radical
00:46:59.520
changes where you can feel better. And again, work harder and show up and feel fresher. That's
00:47:06.420
Well, Kelly, this has been a great conversation. Where can people go to learn more about the book
00:47:10.380
Go to builttomove.com. We've got actually, when the book comes out, we've got a 21 day
00:47:17.700
built to move challenge. It's free. And it's basically a video a day, just kind of supporting
00:47:23.200
some of these ideas, just to bring you through. You can aim your friends at it. You know, we
00:47:27.600
are at the ready state on all the socials, you know, and if you want interested in more about
00:47:33.380
how to assess your body more completely, we've got the app and everything else.
00:47:38.040
Fantastic. Well, Kelly Starrett, thanks for your time. It's been a pleasure.
00:47:41.500
Always a pleasure. Keep putting out the good word, my friend.
00:47:45.260
My guest name is Kelly Starrett. He's the coauthor of the book Built to Move. It's available
00:47:48.500
on Amazon.com and bookstores everywhere. You can find more information about his work at
00:47:51.960
his website, thereadystate.com. Also check out our show notes at aom.is slash builttomove,
00:47:57.360
where you find links to resources where we delve deeper into this topic.
00:47:59.780
Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast. Make sure to check out our website
00:48:10.680
at artofmanless.com. We find our podcast archives, as well as thousands of articles written over
00:48:14.720
the years about pretty much anything you can think of. And if you'd like to enjoy ad-free
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00:48:45.140
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00:48:56.740
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