The Art of Manliness - The Life Philosophy of Bruce Lee

00:00:00.000 I'll see you next time.

00:00:30.000 And how she discovered the power of his philosophy after sinking into depression following the death of her brother Brandon Lee.

00:00:35.960 We then dive into some of the sources of Bruce Lee's philosophy, his reading habits, and what books he kept in his extensive library.

00:00:41.640 Shannon shares the story behind how her father first started formulating his ideas around becoming like water, how he engaged in forms of moving meditation, and what you can learn from his journaling practice.

00:00:50.740 We enter a conversation with the resilient, proactive way Bruce Lee responded to a potentially crippling back injury.

00:00:55.820 There's a lot of great inspiration in this show on what should be every man's ideal, the combination of contemplation and action.

00:01:01.660 After it's over, check out our show notes at aom.is slash Lee philosophy.

00:01:05.860 Shannon joins me now via clearcast.io.

00:01:08.000 All right, Shannon Lee, welcome to the show.

00:01:18.740 Thank you.

00:01:19.660 My pleasure to be here.

00:01:20.920 So you are the daughter of Bruce Lee, and you also are in charge of your father's legacy.

00:01:26.600 You manage what you call the business of Bruce Lee.

00:01:29.460 And recently, I think it was last year, you put out a book called Be Water, My Friend, which is you basically synthesized your father's philosophy.

00:01:38.700 A lot of people don't realize this, that Bruce Lee was a philosopher, synthesized his philosophy, but also showed practical applications of how to put that into practice.

00:01:47.360 And I'm hoping we can, in this interview discussion, talk about the sources of your father's philosophy, what it looked like big picture, and then how we can apply that.

00:01:56.120 But before we do, let's get personal.

00:01:57.940 I'm sure you get asked this question all the time, but you were four years old when your father died.

00:02:02.820 How much do you remember of your father?

00:02:04.960 You know, I mean, I'm sure anyone, thinking back to what they remember when they were four, and I know there are some people who, like, remember every single thing, but I think that's fairly rare.

00:02:18.020 You know, my memories are quite limited.

00:02:21.180 I don't have those long form, sort of visual, audio memories where, you know, I'll say, oh, I remember when he walked into the room, and then he said this, and I, you know, all that kind of thing.

00:02:33.080 But I'll tell you, and I talk about this in the book, and thank you, by the way, for having me on the podcast to talk about the book.

00:02:42.120 The thing I really remember very vividly is the feeling of him.

00:02:48.400 And it took me a really, really long time to understand that that was a memory.

00:02:55.520 I used to kind of think I was just a little bit insane, because I was like, I feel like I really know this person.

00:03:02.020 I feel like I know this person intimately and in a strange way.

00:03:07.420 And I used to just think, well, gosh, that just must be some strange longing that I have or something.

00:03:15.180 But it is so visceral for me.

00:03:17.160 And it wasn't until I talked to another friend of mine who had lost their father at a young age, and I was describing the sensation.

00:03:26.340 And he said, oh, yeah, I have those memories, too.

00:03:30.420 And I was like, memories.

00:03:32.440 These are memories.

00:03:33.360 And so I have to say, even though I was very, very young, and it makes sense, right?

00:03:40.640 Like when I start thinking about it, like as a child, especially a toddler, you, before you're even able to speak, you're feeling, you're just feeling everything around you all the time and taking it in.

00:03:53.900 And so I do remember things like going to visit him on set.

00:03:59.360 I remember our house in Hong Kong.

00:04:01.240 My memories really start in Hong Kong.

00:04:03.540 We moved there when I was three.

00:04:04.840 And I remember, though, what he felt like, his energy, his just kinetic, charismatic, sparkly, intense presence.

00:04:21.580 And that is something that I am so grateful for.

00:04:26.600 Well, I'm hoping in our conversation, we can let our listeners get a sense of that kinetic vitality that your father had.

00:04:33.940 You describe in the book, you know, in your teenage years and in the early part of your 20s, you didn't think too much about your father's philosophy, like cerebrally.

00:04:43.740 But then you had this moment in your early adulthood where you went to a dark place.

00:04:49.020 You had a crisis, despair, depression.

00:04:51.660 And it was in this moment, like your father's philosophy kind of hit you in a very profound way, like almost as if he was speaking to you from the beyond.

00:05:00.760 And that led you to dig deep into his philosophy, also making your life's work overseeing his legacy.

00:05:08.600 Can you walk us through that experience and what led up to that moment?

00:05:14.000 Sure.

00:05:14.440 So, of course, you know, being raised in my family as I was, I was familiar with some of my father's philosophy, in particular, the more famous ones like be water my friend or using no way is way, having no limitation is limitation and those types of things.

00:05:33.680 But as you say, I had never really delved deep into it or looked into it.

00:05:39.200 I just kind of knew it because it was just part of my culture growing up.

00:05:43.100 But then right before my 24th birthday, my brother was killed in an accident on a film set.

00:05:51.660 And that was extremely traumatic.

00:05:57.380 And it just plunged me into this really painful, dark place where I, you know, I didn't know what to think.

00:06:11.200 I didn't know, I had all of these horrible feelings that I didn't know what to do with.

00:06:16.080 And I didn't know how to make sense of it, if that's even possible.

00:06:21.980 I didn't know how I was supposed to keep going on with my life.

00:06:27.780 The world became very nonsensical, and I'm sure anyone who's experienced death closely knows what I'm talking about when you're just sort of in bewilderment that the world is still going on around you, like everything's fine when you yourself are clearly not fine.

00:06:48.660 And it's really hard to know what to do with yourself.

00:06:54.840 And for me, it really set off this bookend experience, you know, my father having died when I was four, and then my brother dying right before my 24th birthday, so 20 years apart.

00:07:07.880 You know, as I healed through that process, I started to see like, oh, I've been mildly depressed my whole life.

00:07:15.580 It's just that with this sudden immense tragedy, I was just plummeted into such a deep well of painful depression.

00:07:27.400 And, you know, you go through a funeral, you go through memorial services, you have some time for a little while where you're just so bereft with grief, and then you kind of have to keep living your life.

00:07:51.040 And so on the outside, I was going through the motions of living my life.

00:07:57.280 But on the inside, I was still extremely in an extreme amount of pain.

00:08:06.040 And when I would have my quiet moments, and I talk in the book about like driving in my car around LA, which we do a lot in LA, and just crying as I'm driving.

00:08:18.020 And then I would arrive someplace, and I'd sort of like wipe off my face and throw a smile on and hop out of the car and go about my life.

00:08:25.920 And that's, that's not really living, you know, that's, that's two separate planes of existence, which is a really hard thing to maintain.

00:08:36.020 And I went on this way for a couple of years.

00:08:40.800 And then just sort of by happenstance, I was given photocopies of all of my father's writings.

00:08:50.840 My mom was working with someone on a, on a series of books, and they had made copies of all of his writings in order to go through them.

00:09:00.600 And they handed them to me and said, Oh, we made you a copy.

00:09:03.420 We thought maybe you would like to see these and dating myself here.

00:09:08.740 But it was like three phone books worth of papers of his writings.

00:09:15.200 And I just started flipping through them.

00:09:19.740 And as you can imagine, a lot of them are around martial arts and technique and that sort of thing.

00:09:24.980 But so many of them were about philosophy and his thoughts on life.

00:09:31.300 And there were creative writing, there were all sorts of things in there.

00:09:34.860 It was like a treasure trove.

00:09:36.020 And as you say, I came across this one quote that I had never heard before, not having been a student of his writings that I am now.

00:09:48.000 And I just had this sudden response as if suddenly it's like there was a little fissure, a little crack that opened up and some light got in.

00:09:58.540 And all of a sudden I was like, it just hit me square in the chest.

00:10:02.920 And I just thought, Oh my gosh, there was something about this quote that it just said to me, you can be okay.

00:10:11.500 You've got to work for it.

00:10:13.080 But there is, there is a way to know yourself and heal yourself and move forward.

00:10:20.520 And that quote, which sometimes I butcher and sometimes I don't, we'll see what happens, is the medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it.

00:10:34.800 My ailment came from within myself, but I did not observe it until this moment.

00:10:41.580 And now I see that I will never find the light unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel.

00:10:54.860 And there was just something about that that said, your suffering, the way that you are suffering is coming from within yourself.

00:11:06.400 And you've got to seek the cure for that.

00:11:09.100 You've got to start observing that pain and really starting to question it and really starting to seek a way through it.

00:11:22.220 Not to ignore it, not to deny it, but to really let it in and explore it.

00:11:29.900 And, you know, I didn't have, I didn't have those like amazing sensical thoughts in that moment.

00:11:38.620 It's just that the words hit me and I just thought, oh, the medicine for my suffering.

00:11:44.240 I have the medicine for my suffering.

00:11:46.940 And it was like, okay, what is that?

00:11:52.100 And I just kept reading and reading and reading.

00:11:55.500 And I found that the medicine was in the words and it was in me attempting to apply the words.

00:12:03.320 So, this is a question I'm sure it's going to be hard to answer.

00:12:10.080 So, like your father was a philosopher besides a martial artist, but like his philosophy and his martial arts were, was intertwined.

00:12:17.140 And the other thing about your father that I took away from your book is that he wasn't a dogmatist.

00:12:22.800 And so, his philosophy was, it was open.

00:12:26.900 And so, you really couldn't put like a container around it.

00:12:29.900 But if you were to do that, so we can grasp it a little bit, like what would you call his philosophy?

00:12:35.240 Like big picture, what was the aim of Bruce Lee's philosophy?

00:12:38.100 To me, his philosophy is about self-actualization, which means essentially making a reality of one's truest self.

00:12:54.840 Or, said another way, fulfilling your potential to the best of your ability.

00:13:00.380 So, and for him that meant, you know, as a martial artist, but also as a human being.

00:13:06.120 And I think, you know, he said, everything that I've learned in life, I've learned from doing martial arts.

00:13:16.140 And then later in his life, he said, you know, I'm a martial artist by choice.

00:13:20.920 I'm an actor by profession, but what I'm really hoping to be is an artist of life.

00:13:26.220 And so, I think philosophy and sort of like one good way to test philosophy is, is it applicable across experience?

00:13:38.500 And, and the fact that it was applicable to his experience of martial arts, as well as his experience of life, says to me that it is extremely useful philosophy.

00:13:54.500 And what it means to self-actualize as a martial artist is one aspect.

00:14:02.780 What it means to self-actualize as a human being is, is another.

00:14:07.040 And I think if, if we step into the broader one, which is to actualize as a human being, then we also will actualize as a martial artist because we're attempting to fulfill our potential in every possible human way.

00:14:22.260 All right. So, self-actualization, and I'm hoping we can get into the details of what that looked like.

00:14:27.260 But before we do, let's talk about like the, the sort of the source, the sources of your father's philosophy.

00:14:31.760 I think something that a lot of people don't realize that your father was a student of philosophy.

00:14:36.680 Like he literally studied philosophy in college.

00:14:39.320 And then throughout his life after college, he continued to, he was a voracious reader, read all sorts of books from books about boxing and martial arts to books about positive thinking.

00:14:51.020 But also those, you know, philosophical, really deep texts.

00:14:54.980 Based on your, you know, looking at your father's work, do you have an idea of some of the sources of his philosophy, like both Eastern and Western?

00:15:01.500 And, you know, maybe we can talk about his library a bit too, because I think some people will be interested in that as well.

00:15:07.340 For sure.

00:15:08.100 My father was extremely self-educated and he believed in prescriptive reading.

00:15:16.820 So, reading that, you know, he took upon himself in order to learn something that he wanted to know.

00:15:24.680 And as you say, he studied philosophy in college.

00:15:28.580 He didn't graduate, but he went to the University of Washington and studied philosophy for a couple of years.

00:15:33.300 And the funny thing is, everyone thought, well, this is weird.

00:15:39.360 Why is he studying philosophy?

00:15:41.460 They thought he would go into like physical education or something having to do with physicality.

00:15:49.060 Because he was so active and physical and so interested in how to move his body and all that sort of thing.

00:15:55.840 But he was working with a, like a guidance counselor at college to help him choose his classes.

00:16:04.960 And his guidance counselor said to him, you know, you're really inquisitive.

00:16:10.840 Like my, my dad was one of those guys who would just ask questions all the time.

00:16:15.200 Well, why this?

00:16:16.120 And what about this?

00:16:17.160 And what does this mean?

00:16:18.020 And what do you mean by this?

00:16:19.040 And why should I do that?

00:16:20.780 And what do you think about that?

00:16:22.080 And he was just extremely inquisitive and his guidance counselor said, you know, you're so curious and you ask so many questions.

00:16:31.120 He said, I really think you would enjoy taking a philosophy course because philosophy is about, you know, why, why, why we do what we do and what we are living for and, and why we are living for it.

00:16:49.080 And so my dad thought that was interesting.

00:16:53.940 And so he signed up for some classes and he immediately fell in love with philosophy.

00:17:00.800 And he really started that time to formulate this notion that he really needed to combine philosophy with martial arts because it would explain the why of movement for him and that that was just as important in terms of learning and nutrition in martial arts as technique.

00:17:29.180 And in fact, maybe in fact, maybe in some ways more important because it would give technique meaning.

00:17:36.560 And so, you know, it's funny because I'm sitting here in my office and I'm looking right now at all of the boxes and boxes and boxes of my father's books that we have right now.

00:17:50.220 And just, you know, and just, he had thousands of books and they are underlined and annotated and maybe not every single one, but a good majority of them.

00:18:01.760 And he was very influenced by Eastern philosophy in particular, the Tao Te Ching.

00:18:10.340 And he read up quite a bit on the different Eastern philosophical schools like Confucianism and Taoism and Buddhism and different aspects of that.

00:18:24.560 He was very interested in, he was very interested in, he also read Alan Watts and Joseph Campbell and Krishnamurti.

00:18:33.240 Krishnamurti and Alan Watts were two of his favorites.

00:18:37.940 And, and later in life, you know, he, he, as you mentioned, went more into also like self-help books and anything that sort of talked about,

00:18:47.120 like these are some of the thoughts around why we live and then these are some of the tools about how to live a better and better life.

00:18:59.100 And the funny thing is, is that when my mom, who's five years younger than my dad, first laid eyes on my dad, it was at her high school.

00:19:09.540 He had come to lecture on Eastern philosophy at her high school to some of the, to the high school philosophy class.

00:19:21.220 And she didn't meet him at that time, but, but she saw him in the hallways and she said, all the girls were like, who is that cute guy on campus?

00:19:30.560 Yes. So, you know, my father, anything that he undertook, he undertook it to the very best of his ability and he really wanted to do it well.

00:19:43.720 So if philosophy was his jam, then he was going to dive fully into it and immerse himself.

00:19:52.340 Yeah. That was one thing that impressed me about your father and his reading and his philosophy too, is that it wasn't just theoretical for him.

00:19:58.860 Like he always tried to put it into action.

00:20:02.960 Like it wasn't, it wasn't just contemplation.

00:20:05.080 Like he did that, but there was also oriented towards action as well.

00:20:08.580 He didn't just read Norman Vincent Peale.

00:20:10.580 Like he actually did what the suggestions are in that book.

00:20:14.540 Totally, totally, totally, totally, totally.

00:20:16.780 And that's the thing that I like really try to get across in my book and about my father when I talk about him,

00:20:23.080 which is he didn't just espouse philosophy, he tried to live philosophy.

00:20:27.680 And he himself had a quote that said, philosophy can be the disease for which it pretends to be the cure.

00:20:38.540 So, you know, I think nowadays a lot of people can go around saying great quotes or posting great quotes or they have a lot of jargon, but are they applying it?

00:20:49.640 Are they really attempting to live through those words or does it just sound good?

00:20:56.060 We're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors.

00:21:00.160 And now back to the show.

00:21:02.540 Well, let's dig into the details of your father's philosophy and how we can put it into action.

00:21:06.240 And I'm sure everyone has likely read or seen that YouTube video of Bruce Lee talking about his idea of be water.

00:21:13.740 Do we know when he first started developing this concept?

00:21:16.780 Yeah, so he had his big revelation about being like water when he was 17.

00:21:26.940 So early.

00:21:28.360 He had this experience where he was in his martial arts class with Ip Man and he was facing off with an opponent and he just kept getting really aggressive and trying to win.

00:21:41.640 And Ip Man kept trying to say to him, you know, stop trying to enforce a strategy.

00:21:47.540 Get out of your head.

00:21:48.720 You have to follow your opponent's movements.

00:21:50.500 You have to be more fluid, you know, all this kind of stuff.

00:21:54.040 And you need to have more gentleness.

00:21:56.760 And my dad kept trying to understand what he was saying.

00:22:00.080 But being a, you know, rowdy teen who just wanted to win, he just kept getting in his head trying to win, win, win at all costs.

00:22:10.060 And finally, Ip Man said, stop.

00:22:12.900 Go home.

00:22:14.660 Think about what I said.

00:22:16.200 Don't come back for a week.

00:22:18.020 And my dad was like, what?

00:22:20.500 I mean, for him, martial arts was his life.

00:22:25.220 He was absolutely, you know, in love with it.

00:22:28.740 He was practicing it all the time.

00:22:31.000 And he couldn't believe it was being banished from class for a week.

00:22:35.720 And so he left and he really tried during that time to understand what is he talking about?

00:22:44.920 What does gentleness have to do with martial arts?

00:22:47.140 What does he mean, you know, don't enforce my strategy or get it out of my head?

00:22:51.800 Like, I don't understand what he's talking about.

00:22:54.260 And he got really frustrated.

00:22:56.260 And finally, he took a boat and he went out into Hong Kong Harbor.

00:23:01.420 And he was just sort of like bobbing around in the water trying to think about what his teacher was telling him.

00:23:08.080 And he got super frustrated and he leaned over the side of the boat and he started punching the water with all his might.

00:23:15.540 And in that moment, he had an epiphany.

00:23:17.700 And he just stopped and he said, oh my gosh, I'm punching this water with all of my force and it is moving out of the way.

00:23:30.360 It's making room for my fist.

00:23:32.880 And then he thought, then he tried to grab the water and every time he would grab it, it would just run through his fingers.

00:23:39.760 And he was like, okay, this substance, which seems so soft and weak and nothing, is actually, you know, can be the strongest thing in the planet.

00:23:55.440 Like storms and it can carve through rock and it can do all of this stuff.

00:24:00.500 And yet I can't grab it.

00:24:01.920 It moves around me.

00:24:03.900 And when I punch at it, it doesn't suffer injury, it gets out of the way.

00:24:09.800 And he just had this huge epiphany.

00:24:12.320 And then right after that, he saw a bird fly over the water, casting its reflection.

00:24:18.280 And he thought, oh, this is how my mind is supposed to be.

00:24:23.600 It's supposed to be like the reflection of the bird on the water.

00:24:27.660 The water sees it, but it just lets it pass through.

00:24:31.320 And that's how my emotions and my thoughts should be when I'm trying to fight and engage in combat.

00:24:43.240 And it was then that he's just sort of like got this big download.

00:24:47.500 And, of course, being 17, he didn't like immediately go home and write down like the Be Water quote.

00:24:53.680 But it was from that moment forward that he really started to apply this notion of fluidity and gentleness and really following the opponent and being in relationship with your opponent and all of these things.

00:25:08.440 And it was later, it was more in the late 60s, early 70s, when he really created that quote that we all know now and started, you know, saying it out loud to people all over.

00:25:24.000 But he had many writings about the nature of water, which can be found a lot, obviously, in the Tao Te Ching and in Taoist principles as well, which are very based in the natural world.

00:25:37.100 And so, but that's where it all started is when he was a teenager.

00:25:41.200 And I think we all can kind of intuitively understand like why you'd want to be water in a fight, right?

00:25:48.440 But like how do you flesh this out?

00:25:50.360 Like how can you apply this idea of be water outside of martial arts?

00:25:54.380 What does that look like?

00:25:56.820 I mean, I talk about this in the book.

00:25:59.900 I feel like a fight is actually or a challenge, let's say, is something that we're facing all the time in our lives.

00:26:07.440 You know, even if it's just like the challenge of getting up in the morning, you know, or greater challenges that are thrust upon us, as have been for many people over this last year.

00:26:20.460 I think that being like water applies across the board to the experience of living because life is challenging.

00:26:28.920 Even when life is good and we feel good, we are still trying to figure out how to live our most fulfilling life and how it can be better and how we can, you know, fulfill our purpose and all of those types of things.

00:26:47.500 So whether we're facing a difficult challenge or whether we're facing a challenge of just trying to be even better and better, we're still challenging ourselves every day and how to live the most fulfilling life or how to live a pain-free life, whatever the circumstance.

00:27:09.740 And so being like water is extremely helpful because we will be faced with obstacles and learning how to be flexible, how to be fluid, how to flow with our obstacles rather than ignore them or run from them or deny them is part of being like water.

00:27:32.600 Being in relationship with what's going on around you as water is, it's also about being present to your circumstance and about being always moving forward and being unrelenting in that way.

00:27:50.300 You know, water, when I talk in the book, I talk about, you know, living water, water that is in motion.

00:27:57.000 Even if it's a still pool of water, it's being fed from a deep source in order to stay viable and fresh, right?

00:28:05.920 So my father talked about living water and he equated the notion of being like water to the notion of truly living because life is in motion all the time.

00:28:22.160 And we need to be in response to it like water is in response to its surroundings.

00:28:30.600 It's in response to the shore, the sand, the weather, the rocks, you know, wherever it is.

00:28:37.780 We also need to be in a sense of fluid readiness to be able to respond to our lives in the most sort of present way that we can.

00:28:58.220 Another concept related to be like water is this idea that your father talked about of emptying the cup.

00:29:05.080 What do you mean by that and how did he empty his cup?

00:29:08.440 Yeah, so the be water quote starts, empty your mind, be formless, shapeless, like water.

00:29:17.840 And he used to say this all the time, the usefulness of a cup is in its emptiness.

00:29:24.400 If a cup is full, you can't use it, right?

00:29:28.160 So it's already in use, it's preoccupied.

00:29:31.880 And he likened the cup to the mind.

00:29:36.080 And when he would say, empty your mind, he would say, let go of all of your preconceived notions,

00:29:47.980 all of your conclusions, your judgments, and empty that cup, make it clear and ready to receive what is happening now in the moment,

00:30:03.360 without the burden of your judgment and your preconceived ideas.

00:30:12.240 And when you do this, you allow for the maximum amount of learning, the maximum amount of observation,

00:30:24.000 the maximum amount of sensing, sensory input, and you want to leave yourself open for whatever may come.

00:30:40.160 So leave yourself open for a new solution, a new understanding, an epiphany, to learn something you didn't know before,

00:30:50.160 to sense something you didn't realize was happening before.

00:30:54.760 And this applies to martial arts and it applies to life.

00:30:59.580 The person who is the most open and aware, the notion of having an empty cup is the notion of being aware in the moment

00:31:12.500 of as much of what is happening as you can be and not putting your judgment on it to say this is good and this is bad.

00:31:23.740 It's just what is coming in and I get to decide in every moment what it has for me,

00:31:32.820 what information there is, what I think is happening, what I can learn.

00:31:37.880 And so it's a very important step because, and I say this in the book, I say if this is like the only thing that you work on for a really long time,

00:31:49.360 which is to let go of your judgment in every instance that you can in your life and to meet each instance of your life with openness and awareness,

00:32:03.520 I mean, that's huge. It's huge. And it allows for perception, new perceptions.

00:32:12.240 And one way your father emptied the cup is he had meditation practices that he did.

00:32:18.440 What did that look like? What did your father's meditation practice look like?

00:32:22.340 Yeah. So my father, thank you. I knew there was another part to the question.

00:32:26.780 My father did meditate like traditionally. Sometimes we actually have picture of him sitting cross-legged hands in his,

00:32:36.240 in his lap, eyes closed, meditating. But my father was such a kinetic human being. He was just moving all the time.

00:32:45.380 And so a lot of times he would meditate in movement as well.

00:32:49.800 So he liked to get up in the morning and go for a jog, a jog, a couple of miles, sometimes, you know, two, three, four, five, six miles.

00:33:01.020 And he loved that as quiet meditation time, time to let the mind be loose.

00:33:11.120 So there are a lot of different ways to meditate.

00:33:14.180 And I'm sure there are meditation teachers who would say, no, this is what meditation is, or no, this is how you're supposed to do it and all that.

00:33:23.320 But for me, I do advocate for meditation because it gives you that space in your mind to loosen it,

00:33:34.080 for it to become fluid, for it to empty out of all of the thoughts and feelings and things that are going on in there all the time.

00:33:45.540 And so my father would employ meditation all the time.

00:33:51.760 Sometimes he would just walk around the backyard quietly, allowing his mind to contemplate deeply whatever his sense was and to create that opening within.

00:34:06.500 And as you said earlier, your father's philosophy wasn't dogmatic.

00:34:10.060 And he had this, like, there's this pivotal moment early on in his career where this, like, it came to, like, he had to, it's like dogmatism versus Bruce Lee.

00:34:21.380 And what was going on is your father was starting some martial arts studios in California.

00:34:27.540 But the guys in Chinatown, the traditionalist, this was in San Francisco, they didn't like it because they were like, you're not doing it the way you're supposed to do it.

00:34:34.940 And basically, there was this showdown.

00:34:37.280 Can you walk us through the showdown and how did that influence the rest of your father's career and how he thought about his philosophy?

00:34:45.680 Yeah, this was a huge, pivotal moment for him.

00:34:49.500 And so he had opened one school in Seattle, and then he had decided to move to Oakland to open a second school with his friend James Lee.

00:34:59.160 And he went down there and opened his school, which was open to anyone and everyone, which back in the day was not done.

00:35:09.340 You didn't teach Chinese Kung Fu to non-Chinese.

00:35:13.440 Certainly, there were some schools that would let a person in here or there, but it was definitely the exception and not the rule.

00:35:22.680 And my father was interested in sharing his love of Chinese Kung Fu with whomever had a sincere desire to learn it.

00:35:33.040 So he opened this school and had a whole bunch of people.

00:35:35.940 And then he started changing some of the traditional Wing Chun that he had come up learning in Hong Kong to be in his experimenting with what was more effective

00:35:48.640 and slightly changing some of the traditional moves.

00:35:53.200 And he would go around and do demonstrations and call people up on stage and tell them why their moves weren't effective and why it was better to do it this way.

00:36:03.300 And this really angered, as you mentioned, the traditionalists who were like, who is this young upstart telling us that, you know, hundreds of years of traditional Chinese Kung Fu is incorrect and teaching women and people of all different backgrounds and races and, you know, what have you.

00:36:27.220 And making this big stir and they really, really didn't like it.

00:36:32.500 And so they issued a challenge to him and they found their best fighter and they issued a challenge and they said, we're going to challenge you to a fight.

00:36:42.500 And if you lose, you have to stop teaching.

00:36:45.680 And if you win, then you can go on teaching.

00:36:48.900 And so my father was like incensed and was like, great, fine, let's do it.

00:36:55.540 And so they came to his school in Oakland.

00:36:59.480 It's at the very end of 1964.

00:37:02.060 My mom was like eight months pregnant with my brother and she was there along with James Lee, who is no longer alive.

00:37:10.900 And they came in and they said, we're going to have this fight.

00:37:13.720 And they started laying out all these rules.

00:37:15.720 There's no this, there's no that.

00:37:17.200 My father said, no, no, no, no.

00:37:18.900 If we're fighting for something as meaningful as this, there's not going to be rules.

00:37:25.920 We're going to fight all out.

00:37:28.460 And so they conferred and they were like, okay, all right, great.

00:37:31.880 No rules.

00:37:32.580 Just until someone gives up or someone's knocked out.

00:37:35.860 And so they started and my dad just came out swinging.

00:37:40.420 And the fight lasted about three minutes.

00:37:43.300 My father won, the other guy gave up and that was that.

00:37:49.820 And they left.

00:37:51.680 And then I always remember my mom telling me this story and she said, you know, I came outside to see your dad and he was sitting on the curb with his head in his hands and he seemed really upset.

00:38:02.680 And I said, what's the matter?

00:38:04.560 You just won.

00:38:05.580 Aren't you happy?

00:38:06.640 And he said, the fight didn't go the way I thought it was going to go.

00:38:12.420 And because there were no rules and because the fight like devolved immediately, as soon as the other guy found out that he was potentially outpaced, he turned and started running around the room.

00:38:27.120 And my dad had to chase him and do all these things that you wouldn't do in a traditional pairing off.

00:38:35.060 And he was winded and it took him a lot longer to grab hold of him and get him down.

00:38:42.220 And he was really disappointed with his performance, even though he had won.

00:38:48.380 And, you know, I talk about his ability to really assess himself and to really look at his pain points and his disappointments and say, so what can I do to change this?

00:39:05.060 And it's from this moment where essentially Jeet Kune Do was born, his martial art that he developed.

00:39:13.920 And he took an entirely different approach to martial arts and martial arts training out of this.

00:39:20.800 And he went so far, actually, as to ask his friend, George Lee, who was a metal worker, to fabricate for him a miniature headstone.

00:39:32.560 And on the headstone, he wrote the phrase, in memory of a once fluid man crammed and distorted by the classical mess.

00:39:44.020 And it was his sort of reminder, this symbol that he created to remind himself to die to his, all his crammed, distorted mess that he had gotten himself into and just figure out a way to return to fluidity.

00:40:09.700 That was the other thing that impressed me about your father.

00:40:11.940 And again, it's his idea of taking the abstract and making it concrete.

00:40:17.140 And you talk about this, like this idea of, you know, he made this gravestone as a concrete manifestation of this idea or this experience he had.

00:40:25.280 But he did this with other stuff, like he made other symbols throughout his life, sort of moral reminders or philosophical reminders that were concrete.

00:40:31.780 Any other ones that stand out to you?

00:40:33.340 Sure, actually, out of that same encounter, he had these plaques created, which he called the stages of cultivation.

00:40:44.580 And there were these four plaques that talked about sort of the different levels that you would need to move through and attain in order to become whole as a martial artist or as a human being.

00:40:58.760 And they start with partiality, move to fluidity, and then emptiness.

00:41:05.680 And then the final plaque was the plaque that he created to represent himself as his philosophy and his whole representation.

00:41:14.060 And he had his friend George Lee make those as well.

00:41:18.620 And he designed them up and drew them, and he had them hanging in his school.

00:41:23.740 And he also had created this symbol, which was a yin yang symbol with arrows around it showing the ever fluid interplay of energies.

00:41:35.640 And then around that, he created the phrase, which I mentioned earlier, using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation.

00:41:46.680 And he had that written in Chinese characters around the yin yang symbol.

00:41:50.300 And he had that made into a medallion that he wore around his neck.

00:41:54.040 And at another point, he wrote an inspirational phrase on a business card and had a stand made for it when he needed some extra inspiration during that time of his life.

00:42:05.080 So, he was constantly creating these little symbols to remind him to stay on the path.

00:42:13.580 He carried also affirmations in his pocket that he would say to himself out loud.

00:42:18.460 So, he was very – he had tools.

00:42:21.280 Right.

00:42:21.500 He had serious tools.

00:42:22.520 So, in another tool that he used, and the reason we know the stuff that we've been talking about, he journaled.

00:42:30.020 He was an obsessive journal.

00:42:31.320 He wrote tons and tons.

00:42:33.300 What was his journaling practice like?

00:42:35.120 Did he have a particular way he journaled, or was it more just like whatever thoughts he had, he just sort of stream of conscious, put it down?

00:42:41.820 Yeah.

00:42:42.360 So, he didn't have a journal as we think of it today.

00:42:46.740 It's not all in one or several bound books.

00:42:51.280 He was a little too kinetic, I think, for that.

00:42:55.540 Like, he would write stuff down whenever he – wherever he was.

00:43:00.340 He did sometimes carry little notebooks with him, but just to be able to capture anything he was thinking of at the time, since we didn't have smartphones back then.

00:43:09.260 But he would write on, you know, all manner of pieces of paper and just keep them.

00:43:15.880 He was really into – he had stationery created for himself as well, which was something that was easy to do in Hong Kong.

00:43:23.440 And he wrote in a number of different ways.

00:43:26.060 So, he wrote inspirationally, right?

00:43:28.940 Like, I have a thought.

00:43:30.780 I'm going to jot it down.

00:43:32.320 He also – he wrote very methodically as well, in a sense that he created – he would – if he had an idea that he was working, he would work on it on the page.

00:43:44.940 And there would be multiple drafts, oftentimes, of letters or essays or ideas that he was masticating and trying to work his way through.

00:43:58.080 And I'm really grateful that we have all of these things so that we can not only see the finished product, but see his process as well.

00:44:09.360 And, you know, one of the things that I remark about his writings, which, as I was going through them, became really prevalent to me, is that there are no, like, negative writings in there.

00:44:24.180 There's no place where he's complaining or, you know, raging on the page, if you will, about his problems or his frustrations.

00:44:34.720 If he did that, he didn't keep that stuff.

00:44:39.320 And I point this out because I know as a young girl who got into journal writing at a pretty young age,

00:44:47.640 that was a lot of the first many years of my journaling, was just like, so-and-so's really annoying me, and I'm so upset about this, and da-da-da.

00:44:57.120 He journaled very constructively.

00:45:00.180 He was problem-solving and trying to express himself.

00:45:04.400 And I just found that to be so amazing when I realized that, and I thought, wow, first of all, I'm so grateful to have this.

00:45:17.820 But also, this is actually something meaningful to me, because when I look back on those old journals of mine, of me sort of like complaining and groaning about this, that, and the other,

00:45:32.180 there's not a lot of useful information there for me anymore, because now I'm a different person than I was then.

00:45:41.560 And what I see is me prolonging my suffering by concretizing it on the page.

00:45:50.540 So I think that this is a really interesting practice, which is, if you need to rage on the page, do it, but then throw it away and then start really using your analytical mind and your soul and your emotional body to seek your solution.

00:46:09.980 Be constructive with your journal writing, yeah.

00:46:13.440 Yeah, yeah.

00:46:14.220 One of the stories you talk about that really hit home with me was your father, early on in his career, he suffered, he was just about to take off, basically, here in the United States.

00:46:23.060 And he suffered a back injury.

00:46:25.760 He was lifting weights, doing a good morning, which is not, it can be a dangerous exercise because of the mechanics of it.

00:46:34.140 But he injured his back, and it put him out of commission for a year.

00:46:36.580 And I think most people would have fallen into a funk, been depressed, but like you said, your father did feel those, but then he always responded positively with constructive action.

00:46:48.280 So how did your father respond to this setback, and what have you taken away from that?

00:46:52.000 Yeah, you know, I think that this is a similar moment to the one we were discussing earlier, which it was a different kind of pain, he was in a lot of physical pain, he had injured his fourth sacral nerve, and damaged it really badly to the point where he was told he would never do martial arts again, and that he may never walk easily again.

00:47:16.860 And as you say, you know, the thing about my father is he definitely felt his feelings, he didn't just like, ignore that, and he was upset and depressed for a minute.

00:47:29.060 But then I think the thing that's important is, once you know that that's how you feel, and you've expressed those feelings, and I think back to me being in so much pain over my brother's death, and I just hadn't worked up any tools for myself.

00:47:50.700 Where my father differed was he had tools, and so for him in that moment, it was like, okay, this is what has happened.

00:48:01.640 Now what?

00:48:03.840 And so he didn't know, right, if he was going to be able to work himself back into any kind of health, but he was going to see if he could.

00:48:13.720 And so in this library of books of his that I have are many books about anatomy, about back pain, how to exercise your back, books about kinesiology,

00:48:29.480 all sorts of things on how to, you know, sort through for himself, what was going on with the problem, and how he could deal with it and try to construct some sort of recovery for himself.

00:48:45.960 In addition to that, because he was bedridden for a number of months, he was going to make use of his time.

00:48:55.040 So it's actually during this time that we have so many of his writings that on martial arts, he started working on these, we have seven volumes of this, his writings on martial arts called Commentary, My Commentary on the Martial Way.

00:49:13.520 And he also read a number of self-help books about positive attitude, about, you know, positive thinking and practices.

00:49:24.520 And he, one of the things which I mentioned earlier that he did was he wrote the words, walk on, on the back of one of his business cards.

00:49:37.200 And he had a little stand made for it and he put it where he could see it from his bed.

00:49:43.520 And it was his reminder to just keep moving forward, just keep spending each day using his time, seeking his cure, figuring out what he was going to be able to do, and then writing, writing, writing.

00:49:59.880 And he wrote so many philosophical essays and thoughts, creative ideas, as well as technical writings on martial arts during that time.

00:50:11.460 And if it hadn't been for that time, we would not have that.

00:50:15.840 And so I think the important thing here is that he, he was like, you know, here's the thing, I'm alive.

00:50:26.960 And as long as I'm alive, then I'm going to, I might as well be working towards something.

00:50:34.500 And I think that was really his attitude, which was, okay, if I'm going to be stuck in this bed, then I'm going to do what I can from this bed.

00:50:47.100 And I'm going to attempt to see if I can also figure out how to make my body stronger as well, which as we know, he ultimately did.

00:50:55.300 The other thing I had to keep reminding myself as I was reading the book, because all these insights are just like, wow, he's, you know, he's probably in his forties, fifties when he wrote, you always forget your father died when he was 32 years old.

00:51:06.820 Totally.

00:51:07.240 I think about myself at 32 and I'm like, man, you are a mess.

00:51:11.520 What did you know at 32?

00:51:13.240 I mean, I knew some things, but he was just this force of nature in terms of, as we mentioned, like putting things into action.

00:51:22.240 And as a kid, his nickname was Mo Sitin, which means never sit still.

00:51:29.760 And that was really his, his thing was that he just, he just was this kinetic ball of energy.

00:51:38.300 And so he was going to do, do, do, do, do.

00:51:41.340 And so when I say like, oh yeah, my dad was an action hero.

00:51:45.200 I mean it in the broadest sense of meaning, not just films, you know, like he was a man.

00:51:52.240 He was a man of action.

00:51:54.340 And yeah, I mean, I feel like I finally came around to being able to express what I expressed in this book in, you know, in my fifties.

00:52:06.180 So, but I also say to people, you know, that's the gift of a long life.

00:52:12.200 I got the opportunity to live my life long enough to get there.

00:52:16.620 Right.

00:52:17.340 Well, Shannon, this has been a great conversation.

00:52:19.420 Is there someplace people can go to learn more about the book and your work?

00:52:23.440 Thank you.

00:52:24.040 Yes.

00:52:24.660 Well, you can go to brucelee.com to check out all things Bruce Lee.

00:52:30.200 We, we do share a lot of his philosophy through our social media as well, which is at Bruce Lee.

00:52:35.880 There's also the Bruce Lee podcast, which is an applied philosophy podcast.

00:52:41.980 So if you want to learn more about his philosophy and listen to us, discuss it and break it down because there's much, much, much more to his philosophy than the be water aspect of it as well.

00:52:54.420 You can listen to the Bruce Lee podcast and I also have my own social at the real Shannon Lee.

00:53:02.040 And, you know, I just want to say quickly that the reason that I got into looking after my father's legacy is because of the philosophy, because of that dark moment in my twenties, where the philosophy changed the course of my life and helped me to heal.

00:53:22.460 And I felt like, you know, my, my father's legacy doesn't really need any help from me in the sense that he himself is a discovery that people will continue to love and admire all on its own.

00:53:38.620 But I wanted people to know this side of him.

00:53:41.980 And I think from reading the book, you can really get the sense that he wasn't just an armchair philosopher.

00:53:48.460 He was a really educated, deeply contemplative man who was really a philosopher at his heart.

00:53:59.260 Well, Shannon, thanks so much for your time.

00:54:00.160 It's been a pleasure.

00:54:01.220 Thank you so much.

00:54:03.020 My guest today was Shannon Lee.

00:54:04.320 She is the daughter of the late Bruce Lee and the author of the book, Be Water, My Friend, The Teachings of Bruce Lee.

00:54:09.100 It's available on Amazon.com and bookstores everywhere.

00:54:11.280 You can find out more information about the work they're doing with Bruce Lee at brucelee.com.

00:54:14.720 Also, check out our show notes at aom.is slash leighphilosophy, where you can find links to resources, where you can delve deeper into this topic.

00:54:27.900 Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast.

00:54:30.680 Check out our website at artofmanliness.com, where you can find our podcast archives, as well as thousands of articles written over the years.

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00:54:59.840 Until next time, this is Brett McKay.

00:55:01.180 Remind you not only want to listen to the AOM podcast, but put what you've heard into action.

The Art of Manliness - March 08, 2021

The Life Philosophy of Bruce Lee

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