We tend to think of genius as something you're born with, a rare trait possessed by the Einsteins and Teslas of the world. But what if many of the abilities we associate with genius are actually trainable skills? My guest today says that's exactly the case. Nelson Dulles, a six-time USA Memory Champion and the author of the book, Everyday Genius, explains why memory is the foundation of thinking well, and why having information stored in your head still matters in the age of chat GPT.
00:08:51.120And I think the reason why I started down this road watching my grandmother lose her memory, it just showed me how important memory is to being human.
00:09:48.600We want to teach students how to think like we want critical thinking, which I agree,
00:09:53.260like knowing how to think is important.
00:09:55.240But I always come back to it's like you can't learn how to think without having stuff to
00:10:00.540think about. It's like telling a kid, hey, we want you to learn how to build, but not giving
00:10:08.840them blocks to actually build. Yeah. No, I'm glad you said that. It's totally the experience that
00:10:15.520I've had as I've tried to teach this stuff to as many people as possible. I've naturally been
00:10:21.080brought to schools to see how we can infuse memory techniques into the curriculum. And it's been such
00:10:27.880an uphill battle because I get faced with that fight where we don't memorize. Memorizing is bad.
00:10:34.260And the reason I think that's the case is because nobody ever taught how to memorize.
00:10:38.320So they're doing it wrong. They're doing repetition, which is tedious and boring and
00:10:42.660doesn't offer good results. Imagine if you could just, in a fun way, memorize something quickly.
00:10:48.540And that's just not an important part about the whole process of learning anymore. It's just the
00:10:52.160easy first thing you do. And now you have the information in your mind. Now you can truly
00:10:56.900start to learn because the information is all in your head. You did it very quickly and it's
00:11:00.660in a format that can be easily recalled in an enjoyable way. I argue that get the information
00:11:06.700in your brain quicker. That's the easy step if you have the right techniques. And then we can
00:11:11.240talk about learning and understanding and thinking because that information is in there and you can
00:11:15.240act on it. Right. Yeah. You can start remixing the stuff in your head and using it in different
00:11:19.840ways. But if it's not there, you can't do that. I mean, we're going to talk about some, you know,
00:11:23.220doing mental math in your head. But in order to do that mental math, there are some things you have
00:11:27.540to have memorized. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, going back to the question you said about AI and
00:11:34.960Google searching, like why bother memorizing? Well, I mean, sure. There's obviously a possibility
00:11:41.180that one day, pull the plug, nothing works. What are you left with? Just your mind. And if you know
00:11:46.200nothing, then you're in a terrible spot. But that's probably unlikely. So then why memorize
00:11:52.600anything if it's always just a click or a search away well i argue that i think going back to what
00:11:58.420i said before that to be human is to use your memory and i think in this day and age where ai
00:12:03.960is threatening to kind of take away our agency over our own brains our cognitive skills like
00:12:10.240even more so reason to use our memories and and flex our muscles and kind of feel what it's like
00:12:17.200to own that agency over our brain. The thought of losing that seems devastating to me. I don't
00:12:23.620know how other people feel about it, but I don't want to lose that capacity. So I work on it and
00:12:28.580I make the effort and I feel good about it. I feel like there's this confidence that comes from
00:12:32.820being able to do things with your own mind. Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. So in our last conversation,
00:12:38.600that was episode number 546. For those who want to check it out, we go into detail about how you
00:12:44.780can improve your memory. We'll kind of do a summary here. One of the things I remember from
00:12:48.660that conversation that stuck out with me was this framework for memorization that you called
00:12:53.180C, like S-E-E, C-Link Go. Can you walk us through an example of how you can use that to memorize
00:13:01.500just about anything? Yeah. So when I wrote that book, I wanted to distill down the steps I took
00:13:08.980when I memorize anything in competition or in life into simple steps. So see link go. And that's
00:13:14.560really what I apply and what I teach for anybody who wants to memorize anything. This each step
00:13:20.260has its own little nuances. But in general, the first thing you got to do is see the information
00:13:25.300in a way that our brain likes to see things. And that is in the form of pictures, associations,
00:13:30.940things that are meaningful. You know, oftentimes in the day to day, we're faced with information
00:13:37.180that's super abstract, complicated, not that interesting. And our brain just tunes it out,
00:13:43.820even though it has the best intentions to memorize it, it just doesn't like it, it just doesn't
00:13:48.800stick. So if you can see the information or turn it into a picture, a mental picture,
00:13:53.280that's the first step to memorizing anything. The next step is the link. So what do you do
00:13:59.140with those pictures? And this is really, I think, the crux of the problem for most people,
00:14:03.500that when they memorize and then they try to remember something and they can't, it's not that
00:14:09.320they really forgot. In some cases, yes, they did. But most of the time, it's that they just couldn't
00:14:14.440retrieve the information. They know they know it. And maybe if somebody had told them what they're
00:14:19.500trying to think of or they saw the answer, they'd be like, ah, yes, now I remember, right? They
00:14:25.040recognize it. And if you can recognize it, that means it was in there. You just couldn't get it.
00:14:28.940So it's a structure organizational problem there. And the link step is taking advantage of what our brains are really good at. And that is remembering spatial information. And so we're good at remembering things around us, distances between things, where we are in space.
00:14:44.500And so if I can attach my images to places I can think about, like my house, I know my house, my office, my school, whatever, you'd have a better way of memorizing the information because it's attached or linked to a location.
00:14:58.740And you don't have to attach it to an actual location, but that is one of the best methods that memory athletes use in memory competitions.
00:15:05.120That's the thing that lets us memorize hundreds of cards and thousands of digits, all with this, what's called a memory palace.
00:15:12.780and then the last step the go step is really you know what you do with that information so if you
00:15:18.860want the information you know just for five minutes and then you can lose it cool if you want to keep
00:15:24.020it forever also cool it's how you treat basically the information that you use in those first two
00:15:29.880steps if you organize your information with the link step and you saw or see the information in
00:15:34.500the right way in a memorable way that go step is how long you can interact with that information
00:15:46.680And it's like, well, as long as I want, I can choose.
00:15:50.280It's what I do with the information once it's stored in my mind.
00:15:52.920And because it's organized in a way that I can remember, it's really easy for me to store information and keep it there for the long term.
00:16:01.900Can you give us an example of, you know, maybe something really easy about how you can use this framework to memorize like an everyday thing that someone would maybe want to remember?
00:16:10.440Yeah, sure. So, you know, let's say grocery list. Okay, so let's say you have a few items on your list. I'll keep it super short. But let's say we have three items on our list. You could probably memorize three things. But imagine extrapolating this out to a list of say 10 to 20 things. But let's say that you have to get milk, some broccoli and some bread.
00:16:29.080So first thing is to visualize or see those things individually, right? So for milk, right, I would picture actual milk, like a glass of cold milk. Maybe there's a cow spraying milk out of its udders. So part of the C process is to make it as visually tintillating as possible using all of the senses. And the more emotion you can add to these images that you see, the better.
00:16:53.980So a glass of cold milk there, that's okay.
00:16:57.640I'd give that like a five out of 10 on the memorable scale.
00:17:01.300But a cow spraying milk everywhere out of its udders and mooing and you're covered in milk now.
00:17:07.620And it's kind of like filthy milk because it's straight from the barn.
00:17:11.460That's closer to a 10 in the shock value and emotional side of things.
00:17:19.860Okay, so maybe I can just imagine a huge forest of giant broccoli stalks and I'm walking through
00:17:26.280this broccoli forest. Okay. And then for bread, you know, maybe I'll go the route of something
00:17:31.040disgusting so that the bread is just like covered in mold and it's kind of fuzzy and green and
00:17:37.080rank smelling and withering away. That kind of evokes a disgusting kind of response, but memorable.
00:17:43.080That's the C part. Now the link part is how do I attach that to something so that I
00:17:47.980can retrieve it easier. If you use a memory palace, you could imagine attaching those
00:17:52.560three images to places in your house. So maybe on the front door is where I imagine this cow
00:17:58.440spraying all the milk. So I'm covered in milk, but so is now my front door. All right. Then I
00:18:02.760walk in the front door and there's my broccoli forest. I'm walking through it. There's broccoli
00:18:06.740everywhere, these tall broccoli trees. And then maybe to the left, if I turn to the left in my
00:18:12.180house after entering the door is the TV room. And that's where there's like piles and piles of
00:18:17.080moldy bread. Just like my couch is made of moldy bread. My TV is made of moldy bread and so on.
00:18:22.280And you can navigate around your whole house doing this whole process with more things. And so now
00:18:27.800when I'm at the grocery store, if I want to remember this, I'm going to say, oh, it was in
00:18:31.540my house. What was at the front door? Oh yeah, that was the thing covered in milk. The cow was
00:18:35.920spraying it to high heaven, right? So milk. Then I walk in the door, broccoli. Then I go to the TV
00:18:42.080room moldy bread bread right so that's just a little taste of how the process works yeah that's
00:18:48.500really cool i've actually used this system for whenever i park my car at the airport in the
00:18:53.320parking garage because you know you get back from the airport and you don't remember you parked and
00:18:58.000so you spend 20 minutes trying to remember where you parked the car so now whenever i park my car
00:19:02.940i look at which section i'm in and say if i'm in you know let's say section b i think okay b for
00:19:09.020bread. And then I just imagine my car filled with just a ton of loaves of bread. Or if the parking
00:19:16.480garage uses colors for their system, and let's say you park in the red section, you could think
00:19:22.280about your car being filled with red blood. And when you open the car door, all the blood pours
00:19:28.080out. So yeah, that's going to sear in your head. So yeah, I've used this tactic that you shared in
00:19:32.840our last conversation. And I think the key with all the memory techniques is that memory is a
00:19:39.760skill. So you have to practice it all the time. So just look for opportunities throughout the day
00:19:45.160to practice your memory. So whether you can memorize your grocery list, memorize dates,
00:19:50.780memorizing the names of people, just do it all the time and you're going to get better and better at
00:19:55.840it. So another foundational skill you have for becoming a genius is speed reading. Why is this
00:20:01.600a foundational skill. Yeah. And I'd like to slightly alter the word choice there. So I do
00:20:07.740title my chapter there a speed reading, but I quickly change it to focused reading because
00:20:13.300I think speed reading can often get labeled as kind of a hack or a scam. And there's definitely
00:20:18.740programs out there that promise, you know, tens of thousands of words per minute, which
00:20:23.760I don't know if I fully believe that. Sure. Anybody can read at X thousand words per minute,
00:20:30.200but do they remember anything that they read? But what I talk about in this chapter are real
00:20:35.440practical ways to actually improve your reading speed. I think we can all do that and increase
00:20:41.340our reading comprehension. There's definitely room there to do that. And, you know, we do measure how
00:20:47.220fast we read by words per minute, how many words you get through in a minute. And this is a fixed
00:20:52.840number, but you can increase that. And I think it does vary depending on what you're reading,
00:20:56.640If you're reading something to your five-year-old, that level of reading probably you could zip through at an extraordinary rate.
00:21:04.480But if you're reading like a dense biology textbook, that might not be as fast, right?
00:21:09.420So it's – yes, you can measure reading speed, but it's also subjective and depends on what you're reading.
00:21:15.640So hard to measure, but – and speed reading doesn't always make sense as well.
00:21:20.980Like, why would you want to speed read through, you know, Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit or Harry Potter, right?
00:21:27.720You probably want to enjoy those and take your time and reread parts.
00:21:30.960But there's other times where you're just trying to get through, you know, an essay that somebody wrote, you're grading it, and you maybe want to go through it a bit quicker, right?
00:21:41.960So reading faster and being able to remember more, if you have the skills, you can kind of pick and choose when you want to increase your speed, slow it down.
00:25:52.340And that gets more into kind of the techniques to, you know, remember things for longer, which is what you want when you're studying and trying to learn.
00:26:00.900Like the information, yes, you want to memorize it, but you also want it to stay there for longer.
00:26:05.920And through your study sessions, do things that will give it a higher chance of staying there.
00:26:11.240And one of the things, as what Brown was saying, is if you can make yourself a little uncomfortable as you try to, say, recall this information and pull it from your memory, at first it's going to feel uncomfortable because it's new information.
00:31:15.960If you look at numbers objectively, they are just symbols that interact with each other.
00:31:21.660And as a young student, you learn these relationships, and they can easily be frightening and discouraging, you know, if you don't get those relationships explained to you right. But I don't think it's too late to change your relationship with numbers.
00:31:36.820I think it's just a matter of, you know, getting better at grasping quantities and magnitude, like getting more playful with numbers and noticing relationships and patterns, and then getting more flexible with how you think about numbers.
00:31:53.280And, you know, some of the techniques that I show in this book, hopefully open the door to that.
00:31:57.760And I think you should just be encouraged to explore numbers and try to look at numbers
00:32:03.580for what they are, because they can be really inviting if you let them.
00:32:06.760And the more you play around with that, I think you build on that number sense.
00:32:10.920It's also, I think, largely based on confidence.
00:32:13.900You know, if you're not confident in your number ability, you probably don't have good
00:50:33.680If they head to my website, nelsondellis.com, it's all there.
00:50:37.120You know, I put a bunch of content out on YouTube with fun videos on how to improve memory, how to remote view, how to do all sorts of things that are talked about in the book.
00:50:46.380And, yeah, the book's called Everyday Genius.
00:50:50.940You know, I kept this little journal through high school and college and all the way up to, you know, recent days where I would just always write down really cool things that you could do with your mind that seemed genius.
00:51:02.180And there's tons of memory stuff in there.