The Art of Manliness - July 31, 2025


The Most Insightful Personality Test


Episode Stats

Misogynist Sentences

9

Hate Speech Sentences

85


Summary

Dr. Taylor Hartman created The Color Code, a personality test that categorizes people into four colors: reds, blues, whites, and yellows. In this episode, Dr. Hartman discusses the strengths and weaknesses of each color, how to interact with each color to bring out their best traits, and the importance of developing the other colors besides your own process.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.
00:00:11.680 Personality tests sometimes come in for criticism these days for not being very accurate or helpful
00:00:16.560 or for putting people into boxes. And it's true that no test can ever entirely peg the
00:00:21.500 complexities of personality and they shouldn't be applied with too much rigidity. But what these
00:00:25.760 tests are useful for is serving as a prompt for reflecting on the particular ways you think,
00:00:30.760 feel and act. And perhaps even more importantly, getting you to think about the fact that other
00:00:36.160 people can see and approach the world in ways that are fundamentally different from your own.
00:00:40.660 I haven't found a personality test that better serves as this kind of tool than what's called
00:00:44.400 the people code or the color code, which categorizes people into four colors, reds, blues, whites and
00:00:51.120 yellows. I've found it uncannily insightful and helping me understand myself and others better.
00:00:56.100 And it's become a regular topic of conversation amongst my family and friends.
00:01:00.100 Today I talked to the creator of the color code personality profile, psychologist, Dr. Taylor
00:01:03.900 Hartman. We discussed the strengths and weaknesses of the four color types, how to interact with each
00:01:08.580 color to bring out their best traits and how the colors combine in relationships. We then discuss
00:01:13.480 the importance of developing the strengths of the other colors besides your own process. Taylor
00:01:17.640 calls becoming character. After the show's over, check out our show notes at awimp.is slash color code.
00:01:25.760 All right, Dr. Taylor Hartman, welcome to the show.
00:01:38.680 Thank you so much. Good to talk to you.
00:01:40.460 Likewise. So you wrote a book a couple of years ago, several years ago called the people code.
00:01:45.580 I did.
00:01:46.100 We're going to talk about this book today. Before you started digging into personality,
00:01:50.020 you were a practicing therapist. So how did your work as a therapist lead you to exploring
00:01:57.040 personality?
00:01:58.480 That's a great question. I honestly had a very full clientele and a lot of men and a lot of men were
00:02:04.260 saying, I need answers. I don't want to just talk about it. I want solutions to problems. And I look
00:02:08.960 back at my training, I thought they didn't really train me well in that. So I felt people deserved
00:02:14.140 answers that were always going to be true, not subject to how old you were, how your mom raised
00:02:20.420 you, what your race is, what your religion. None of that should matter. At some point in mental health,
00:02:25.580 there should be solid answers like with math, two plus two is four. And I didn't have them. So I went back
00:02:30.980 to the drawing board to like a second PhD in trying to figure out, could I get a truth that was always
00:02:36.500 true across the board? That's what led me to the color code, which eventually became the people code.
00:02:41.660 Okay. And the color code and the people code, this is, it's a personality assessment that people can
00:02:46.480 do to help them understand themselves and their motivations. And then also other people. Let's
00:02:51.820 talk about personality in general. Like how do you define personality? Because we throw that word
00:02:56.660 around a lot, like, Oh, he's got a good personality or a bad personality. What is it? What is personality?
00:03:01.720 Well, it's a combination of preferences, needs, wants. What I brought to the table,
00:03:07.320 which wasn't there before was motive. Like, why are you driven to do those behaviors?
00:03:12.620 It's really a bundle of connections that make you who you are. And for example, no two people are
00:03:18.340 exactly alike, but it certainly helps understand there are preferences that each different kind
00:03:23.160 of personality can share. And that's what the essence of the color code is. It gives you this
00:03:27.700 beautiful insight into, Oh my gosh. Okay. So many people that are of this ilk,
00:03:32.300 they come from this perspective so I can be more tolerant and understanding of them.
00:03:38.080 Okay. So personality, desires, motives, just how we interact with the world.
00:03:42.920 Needs, wants. How do we develop our personality? Is our personality inherent in us or does our life
00:03:47.900 experience help shape our personality? You know, it's funny about that, Brett. Women have always
00:03:52.740 known this. You ask any woman, they'll tell you this child in the womb was unique. They don't come
00:03:58.080 the same. It's not genetic. It's in your soul. So every human being brings within themself
00:04:04.740 their personality from the, from the get-go and then nurture impacts it. But you start first with
00:04:12.420 your core personality that is uniquely yours. And then society writes on you.
00:04:18.360 Right. Sure. If you have kids, you probably experienced that. You have one child and you,
00:04:22.320 you saw them as a baby and you could already see their nascent personality when they were
00:04:27.520 an infant. Right. And they were completely different from the other, if you had another
00:04:31.940 kid, like my son and my daughter completely, you could see their personalities like-
00:04:36.180 From the beginning.
00:04:36.700 From the beginning. Yeah. And if you speak to them both the same, you don't have the same impact.
00:04:41.540 Right.
00:04:41.980 They don't take it the same way. That's very good. Yeah. You're right.
00:04:44.920 Yeah. Like my daughter was very strong-willed.
00:04:48.000 Yep. From the beginning.
00:04:48.900 From the beginning. She like wanted to do things by herself.
00:04:51.880 Independent.
00:04:52.200 And my son, you know, not so much. Um, yeah. Not like that. Yeah. Yeah. He likes more connecting.
00:04:58.320 Is he more emotional or is he more logical?
00:05:00.720 He's more like, he's both, but like I'm more emotional. Like he likes, he's a blue. I mean,
00:05:04.820 we'll talk about like what it is, but he likes to just connect and he gets nostalgic. And
00:05:08.380 sometimes when he talks, he's like 12 and he talks like he's an 80 year old man.
00:05:12.720 That is 100% true. Blues, you have a wisdom they almost come with.
00:05:16.680 Yeah. It's funny. My wife is blue and I have no blue and you marry what you're not. And
00:05:21.720 then you spend the rest of your life trying to fix them and make them what you think they
00:05:25.060 should be. But we typically, we have to appreciate the beauty of why we married that person in
00:05:30.660 the first place.
00:05:31.560 So let's talk about the Hartman personality profile. How did you develop it? What was the
00:05:35.140 process of you trying to figure out whether there's these different types of personalities,
00:05:37.960 et cetera?
00:05:38.900 Honestly, I used my clients. They were terrific guests, helpful to me in the process of trying
00:05:43.080 to figure out if I use these words against each other, what would tell me truly who that
00:05:47.280 person is, who I knew quite intimately at this point. Right. So I was assessing them that way.
00:05:51.740 And I had to play words against each other. For example, if someone is red or blue, I had to have
00:05:56.920 them come up with which one is more who you are, the blue or the red. So the instrument actually was
00:06:02.960 developed with my clients in mind, using them as a reference.
00:06:07.080 Okay. So it's very practical. You're developing this in the field.
00:06:09.860 Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:06:11.180 And how does your personality test differ from other personality tests out there? Because I'm
00:06:15.300 sure everyone's probably taken a Myers-Briggs personality test or some other type.
00:06:19.780 Yeah. How does yours differ?
00:06:22.100 So the beauty of the difference is everyone else is behavior-based. So you even answer the
00:06:27.820 questions based on your behavior. Mine is the only one that is motive-based. Why do you do that
00:06:32.780 behavior? What truly drives you at the core? For example, when yellows are irresponsible, people don't
00:06:38.980 necessarily see why is that. Well, because yellows crave freedom and they can be very, very much in
00:06:44.820 the moment as opposed to long-term. They don't think consequences. If you understand the driving
00:06:49.920 core behind that as to why yellow behaves that way, it makes you, helps you much better understand
00:06:55.120 how to engage them. And if it is your core personality, it helps you understand why you
00:06:59.000 react the way you do. So the motive, why you do it, that's what the color code people code
00:07:03.380 offers versus other instruments. Yeah. The thing I've noticed with those other personality tests
00:07:08.460 that focus on behavior is when I've taken them and I'm going through the questions where it says,
00:07:14.300 what would you do in this situation? And I could give different answers depending on the situation
00:07:19.460 because oftentimes behavior is contextual. Like I'm going to act a certain way in this situation.
00:07:23.720 Correct. But so what you're saying is the Hartman personality goes because it focuses on motive,
00:07:27.360 it avoids that issue. It's much more true at the end of the day. It's the thing I talked about
00:07:32.200 earlier. I want a truth that's always there. I mean, ironically, Brett, you'll love this. I am the
00:07:37.180 author of this and I thought I was red. And my wife goes, red, you're not red. I said, look at me.
00:07:42.080 I have a successful practice. I show up. She goes, are you kidding me? Where's your office? It was on
00:07:47.100 the beach, literally on the beach. And if a client didn't come, she goes, what do you do? I said, I go
00:07:51.300 to the beach. I have 45 minutes to enjoy myself. She goes, a red does not do that. You're missing the
00:07:56.180 point totally. But my mom was so red. I figured that's what I had to be. So I'm buying
00:08:02.080 into the behavior as opposed to the driving core underneath the behavior, which is fun.
00:08:07.840 How can knowing your innate motive help you better navigate life and develop as a person?
00:08:14.300 First of all, you want life to be congruent. And if you're not living true to your core motive,
00:08:18.920 you'll never be happy. It won't happen for you. For example, blue personalities that have been scarred
00:08:23.360 or hurt, they refuse to be vulnerable and engage. Well, they're driven by the core of intimacy.
00:08:29.600 They have to have that connection. They're depriving themselves of the very thing,
00:08:34.140 the essence of breathing. I always say to people, for example, if you block a red from getting from
00:08:39.020 A to B, you're just keeping them from breathing. You're like choking them. Well, that's not choking
00:08:43.820 a white, but it's choking a red. So understanding why that's so important frees you to really enable
00:08:50.300 other people to succeed as well as yourself. Let's talk about personality tests in general. Lately,
00:08:55.300 they've come in for some criticism because they say, you know, they're not accurate or helpful.
00:08:59.760 How do you respond to that criticism towards personality tests in general?
00:09:03.360 I think it's legit. I mean, I hate to say it, but the reality is, first of all,
00:09:07.580 when you're just describing behavior, that's too superficial to really get at the core truth.
00:09:11.780 On the other hand, I admit that because mine is much deeper, it also is more threatening,
00:09:16.080 which I understand that is not necessarily comfortable for people. Or you label someone with it.
00:09:20.600 Like if I use it as a hammer by saying, oh my gosh, you're blue. Are you kidding me? That's
00:09:25.300 worthless. Or I dismiss you because I don't like your personality. Those kinds of things are very
00:09:30.080 harsh. It's not like you say, you don't like my tennis game. You're talking about my very core of
00:09:34.400 who I am. So it can be very damaging in my mind if you misuse these interpretations.
00:09:39.660 They can put you in a box, maybe.
00:09:41.360 A hundred percent. Absolutely.
00:09:42.900 But I imagine with your test or just personality test in general,
00:09:46.280 it requires a deep amount of self-awareness. Because I think sometimes we think we're one
00:09:51.160 way. Like we have this idea of how we are in our head, but we're really not that way.
00:09:55.480 And sometimes with these tests, we answer the questions according to what we want to be
00:10:00.140 true about us, but isn't. Yeah, that's right.
00:10:03.100 And that can get tricky too. Very tricky because we lie to ourselves.
00:10:06.740 And of course, I'm kind of naive. Like yellow has naivety. I'm like, why would you ever lie to
00:10:11.240 yourself about who you are? Like, why wouldn't you want to know? But that was naive. I mean,
00:10:14.680 the reality is many people don't want to be what they are, which is tragic, by the way,
00:10:18.940 because you can't change that. Your core is who you are and always will be.
00:10:22.780 But I do think that it's maybe threatening for some people to have to admit something,
00:10:27.840 especially if they're raised not to believe what they are is okay. That can be very painful.
00:10:32.440 Okay. So let's walk through the four types of personalities your assessment identifies.
00:10:36.600 So we've been saying things like there's reds, blues, whites, and yellows. Those are the four.
00:10:40.680 Yep.
00:10:41.000 So what percentage of the population makes up each one that you found?
00:10:44.880 Yeah. So blues are 35%. Reds are 25%. Whites are 20%. And yellows are 20%.
00:10:52.020 Okay. All right. So let's do kind of a thumbnail sketch of these different personality types. Let's
00:10:55.820 start off with reds.
00:10:57.220 Well, of course, because they get angry if you don't.
00:10:59.040 Yeah. So a thumbnail sketch of reds, like what motivates them? What are their strengths,
00:11:03.020 et cetera?
00:11:03.960 Okay. So let's start with their motivation, which is power. And power simply means moving from A to B.
00:11:09.040 That's all it means. They need to get things done. They are decisive, assertive,
00:11:13.660 you know, responsible. They're proactive. They don't whine a lot. They're logical. Like if you're
00:11:18.900 dating a red, I promise you, they want you to look good on their arm and they'll get things done.
00:11:22.620 They'll take care of business. Very determined and efficient. That kind of red stuff. Negative side
00:11:28.280 though, they can be very arrogant. I don't know what it is with reds. They literally are born with a,
00:11:32.120 I am right gene in their DNA. So being right all the time, they can be argumentative and it's not a
00:11:38.100 negative argument. They just like debating. They can be arrogant. Like I'm better than you.
00:11:42.620 A critical of others. They notice things that are not. Impatience is a big red trait.
00:11:46.760 So that's red in essence.
00:11:49.200 So what are reds like as a spouse, parent, employee, et cetera?
00:11:53.780 They're phenomenal at getting things done. They're great leaders. They're very resourceful.
00:11:57.500 They can be very demanding, frightening, like intimidating. Those are positive and negatives
00:12:03.280 of a red. And by the way, let's take mother Teresa and Putin. They're both red. So you can
00:12:10.160 see the difference in how they've influenced and impacted life with their red personality.
00:12:14.660 Right. So reds just, they want to get things done.
00:12:16.800 Right. Absolutely.
00:12:17.700 How should you interact with a red to get the best out of them?
00:12:22.200 Reds are all about respect. So if you have an interaction with a red and you know your stuff,
00:12:27.020 you speak to it very succinctly and briefly, do not ramble on. Blues often will ramble because
00:12:32.660 they want to be understood. And the red has no desire to understand. They just want to get the
00:12:36.500 facts. So very directly and bluntly and earn their respect. No whining. They don't like negative.
00:12:43.240 They like positive. They want answers, not questions. And speak up to them. If you're not
00:12:47.800 assertive with a red, that's your problem. They don't feel responsible for why you are not
00:12:52.460 comfortable speaking up. Reds are very confident. So if you don't, if you don't have confidence when
00:12:57.840 you deal with a red, they will dismiss you. Gotcha. So let's talk about blues. So what,
00:13:03.540 what motivates a blue? Okay. So blues and reds are so similar and so different. It's almost
00:13:08.780 frightening. Like blue people are driven by intimacy. They're all about the connection. They too love to
00:13:14.900 get things done, but they don't want to walk on people to do it. They are much more interested in a
00:13:19.320 relationship at the end of the day. Their intimacy means connection and they are like compassionate.
00:13:25.980 They're very sincere. I mean, you trust me when a blue says they'll do something, you can take it to
00:13:30.680 the bank. Very loyal, loyal to a fault, by the way. They're very loyal to the end, even at their own
00:13:36.020 expense. They're thoughtful. They think about things deeply. A lot of blue men are analytical and women.
00:13:42.680 And so they may think they're red, but blues are very analytical. Like if I want to sell you something
00:13:47.240 right now, Brett, you wouldn't buy, you need to think about it. I'd be very, I'd be very skeptical.
00:13:53.020 Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. I'm a blue full disclosure. I've taken the assessment. I am a blue.
00:13:56.920 Oh, very good. Well, the, the other, the other piece of that is your gift. Probably I think survival
00:14:00.880 gift is intuition. Blues tend to feel things and they feel them pretty accurately, to be honest with
00:14:05.740 you. But on the negative side, they are skeptical at the end of the day also, because they expect high
00:14:11.240 standards of everybody else. Always negative side. They worry way too much. Like they are so organized
00:14:16.260 and taking care of details, but they always worry. And they and the reds rival each other. The reds can
00:14:21.460 be arrogant and the blues can be self-righteous. It's hard for blues to forgive because they get
00:14:26.280 hurt so deeply. They also are judgmental. Moody. Moody is one of my most difficult ones is blues
00:14:32.180 because I'm so yellow. I'm like, why are you moody? Well, did you just see what happened to me?
00:14:36.280 Like what I'm going through? And they can be hard to please and overly sensitive. So those are some
00:14:40.800 positive negatives. The, by the way, reds and blues are the ones that spend their whole life trying to
00:14:45.620 control others. And whites and yellows are the ones who refuse to be controlled.
00:14:51.120 And, and so, so blues are more controlling than reds because of the moral that always drives them.
00:14:57.420 Okay. So yeah, blues and reds, they're all about control. They just go about it different ways.
00:15:01.320 Correct. A hundred percent.
00:15:02.600 All right. So reds are using, they're just going to be assertive and just like,
00:15:04.940 Hey, get this done. Blues are going to use more emotion.
00:15:08.120 Correct. That's correct. That's exactly right.
00:15:10.140 Yeah. Some of the other things about blues, like limitations,
00:15:12.580 martyr-like and complains about life.
00:15:15.460 They like almost being a victim. Like, it's like, well, look what I'm going through.
00:15:19.240 Right. Or self-esteem is dependent on outside influences. So they have often have an external
00:15:23.620 locus of control.
00:15:25.220 It's such a great insight. Yeah. It's sad to me, by the way, they're so capable,
00:15:28.860 but they don't know that. They're like, you know, and they're so honest. Like if I,
00:15:33.520 if you're applying for a job, Brett, and you're red and I say, can you do this? You'll,
00:15:37.240 you'll lie to me. You say, of course. And then you'll go home and learn how to do it.
00:15:40.660 But a blue can't do that. The blue has to say, no, I've never done that.
00:15:45.120 When they actually might be the best at it. So yeah, blues do a lot more internal damage to
00:15:50.280 themselves, hard on themselves, never quite good enough. Perfectionism.
00:15:54.620 Right. But it sounds like, like a red, they can get a lot of things done because they're highly
00:15:57.120 conscientious. They're disciplined. They do a lot of planning because they want to make sure things
00:16:01.540 go right. Cause they want to look good. Yep. And et cetera. So there's some strengths and
00:16:05.580 weaknesses that. To both. Like honestly, there really are strengths and weaknesses to both.
00:16:09.580 Yeah. So if you are interacting with the blue, like what's the best way to do that,
00:16:15.420 to get the best out of them? Number one, you've got to understand them. I I'm telling you at the
00:16:20.460 end of the day, you, when a blue starts a story, don't say to them, tell me just the end, tell me
00:16:24.460 the result, tell me what I need to know. Let them explain to you how they got there. That's important
00:16:29.480 to them to be understood. And they're the only color that needs that at that depth. And then be sincere.
00:16:36.800 If you're not honest, you're not genuine, you lose connection. They don't trust you.
00:16:41.080 And that's a big piece to a blue at the same time. And then I, I think a really important thing with
00:16:46.120 blues is give them reason to believe what you're saying is in their best interest. Cause they,
00:16:51.560 they really are going to listen to them. They're going to think about what you said. And if it doesn't
00:16:55.320 add up over time, they will then become distrustful of who you are.
00:16:59.720 Uh, any famous blues off the top of your head?
00:17:02.860 Yeah. Abraham Lincoln's a great example, a phenomenal blue, like deeply, deeply committed,
00:17:08.220 very genuine. We can use more of those kinds of people in politics today. That kind of stuff.
00:17:13.460 Gotcha. All right. So let's talk about whites, thumbnail sketch of white. What is their big
00:17:17.580 motivation?
00:17:18.940 First of all, they're the least understood of the color code because they don't flap their lips a lot.
00:17:23.020 And so people don't really read them. Well, most other personality instruments miss on whites. They
00:17:27.780 don't get them correctly. They're driving core motive is peace. It's amazing how whites cannot
00:17:33.380 tolerate conflict. It just is so painful for them. They'll pass on things they don't agree with,
00:17:40.080 but they don't want the conflict. So they're very peace oriented. Their number one gift is kindness.
00:17:45.800 They will literally not so compassionate like a blue, but they're also not judgmental like the blue.
00:17:50.560 They're kind and very, very easily like entertained. They may be boring, but they're not bored.
00:17:57.080 They're fine within their own skin. Very even tempered. It's kind of funny. I always
00:18:01.360 have this great slide that I use in trainings where you, you showed this person and there's all
00:18:05.800 these different like experiences, like excited, angry, happy, satisfied. They're all the same
00:18:12.000 face for white. They don't show any emotion and, and then they blow up. Like they'll take the hits
00:18:17.280 constantly and all of a sudden they'll blow over a small deal. Why is that? Because they don't want to
00:18:21.420 have conflict. So they, they stuff it all. And then eventually it comes out. They're great listeners,
00:18:27.200 amazing listeners. They never make it about themselves. Very like agreeable. It's always
00:18:32.200 room for another white at the table. They're diplomatic, very adaptable to life and patient.
00:18:37.640 I used to get so frustrated on the freeways in Southern California and my white daughter would go,
00:18:41.760 you, you know, it was going to be crowded when you got on. Like, why are you upset? Very accepting
00:18:46.260 of difference and diversity. They're not threatened by different ideas. A negative side. Oh my gosh,
00:18:52.360 they can be so indecisive. You ask a white where they want to go to lunch. They have no idea. And
00:18:56.640 they'll get angry if you make them tell you, cause they just want to go whatever you want to do.
00:19:02.160 And when you get an unmotivated white, I think breath, that's the hardest one for me. Cause they
00:19:07.400 just, there's nothing you can do. They don't care. I mean, a red that's unmotivated, you can nail them
00:19:11.800 and a blue is easy cause they want to please, but not a white. They're like, I don't need it.
00:19:16.720 So there's a silent stubbornness. You can look right at a white and say, we're going to do this.
00:19:22.060 And they will not show you yes or no. And then they'll do whatever they want afterwards.
00:19:27.640 They can be very self-deprecating, not real confident. They don't have a lot of belief in
00:19:32.300 themselves. They can be unenthusiastic, almost withdrawn. And like I said, they can be boring.
00:19:37.200 Like they don't have a lot to say very often. I remember the time my blue wife flew with my
00:19:42.080 white daughter. We were going back to California to get her teeth worked on. And my wife said,
00:19:46.900 I'm just not going to talk to her and see when, how long it takes. And they flew there,
00:19:50.580 did the work, flew home. And finally my blue wife blows up, says, what was wrong? And my white
00:19:56.880 daughter goes, what's wrong with what? Like we had a great trip. What's the problem? So they can be
00:20:01.740 very passive that direction. Right. So you said, okay, red and blue, they want to control
00:20:05.840 white. They don't want to be controlled. Not at all. Nope. And they're very hard to know how to,
00:20:11.740 when they're not being controlled because they don't tell you anything. They don't give you a lot.
00:20:15.460 Right. And then that's where the stubbornness can come in. If they don't want to be controlled
00:20:18.360 and you're telling them to do something, they might just give you the silent treatment and just
00:20:21.460 not do anything. 100%. The only way to win with a white, by the way, is you have to let them grow
00:20:26.480 the grass while you sit with them. They're looking at you to see if you're kind. And if you're,
00:20:31.700 and by the way, they can take direct feedback. They're not weak, but when it gets emotional,
00:20:36.040 and judgy, that's when they shut down completely. Like in the military, a lot of whites do really
00:20:40.800 well. They're fine with direct feedback, but they don't like going to get emotional.
00:20:44.500 Right. So they, they resent being pressured to do things, nudging them all the time. Like,
00:20:48.320 so if you have a kid who's a white, like telling like, you got to clean your room, clean your room,
00:20:50.880 clean your room. That's probably not going to work. Drives them crazy. Yeah. And they'll hit you.
00:20:55.140 They resent you the person, not just what you're saying. And they, they probably won't say
00:20:57.980 anything though, because again, their main motive is peace. That's correct. They don't want the conflict
00:21:03.240 and they don't want to be mean, but you know, they're mean by not saying anything.
00:21:07.160 So they, I guess they might take a more passive aggressive approach is what we would say.
00:21:10.560 100%. Oh, that's, that is the crux of a white.
00:21:14.220 Yeah. You gave a good story from a client you had years ago where it was a husband. The husband was
00:21:19.840 a white. I think the wife was a red and the wife was just getting really angry at the husband. She
00:21:24.440 started throwing stuff on the ground and the white husband didn't say anything. It just started
00:21:28.820 sweeping up the stuff. Yeah. And it just made the red wife even more angry that he wasn't
00:21:33.920 responding. That's it. She didn't respect it. Right. She knew she was out of line. She was mean,
00:21:38.560 but it kills her that he would not respond. Okay. So, all right. So white, their motive is peace.
00:21:43.900 Let's talk about yellow. What is their main motivation? It's fun. Like yellows are fun.
00:21:49.240 Yellows are what you want to be when you're like zero to 18. Like they're just fun. They're the party.
00:21:54.120 At the restaurant, they're at the table next to you having such a great time in life.
00:21:59.300 They're driven by fun. And that means living in the moment, whatever that might be.
00:22:03.400 The interesting thing about yellows is people who are raising yellows are like,
00:22:06.740 are they ever going to make it? Like, what are they going to do? Like after that part of their
00:22:10.020 life goes, freedom is like number two. Fun is the driving core and freedom is the number two
00:22:17.400 trait they crave. They're very enthusiastic, optimistic, hard not to like unless you're raising one,
00:22:22.880 very carefree. Like they don't worry about things at all. They just go and life figures it out.
00:22:28.100 Optimistic. They're spontaneous. Yellows don't really like long-term planning. They like short-term
00:22:32.940 things, just opportunities. They wake up happy. I remember I worked on being thoughtful,
00:22:38.560 a blue trait for like six months. And my wife said, Oh, that's a real hard one. Cause she's so blue.
00:22:43.560 I said, okay, why don't you wake up happy every day? And she's like, Oh, I get it. It's different for
00:22:48.780 all of us. So happiness is something yellows do naturally. Very charismatic. They're very sociable.
00:22:54.760 They like engaging. If you want to really get a yellow, send them to the room. They go crazy.
00:23:00.340 They don't want to be with themselves alone for a half an hour, but a white would live there if they
00:23:04.440 could. And so they're very trusting and playful. The negative side, they're very self-centered.
00:23:09.000 Like I'm going to go do this. If you want to come, great. If not, then I'll just go do it.
00:23:11.920 Anyway, uncommitted. They don't understand the idea of being responsible to what you say you're
00:23:18.600 going to do and following through. They're disorganized. Like their rooms, my office,
00:23:24.260 my wife has to come in like every three months and say, Oh my gosh, this is obliterated. I got to
00:23:28.180 figure it out. And they're impulsive and undisciplined. Like doing the same thing every
00:23:33.340 day bores yellows to death, which is really kind of the essence of a quality of life if you think about
00:23:38.260 it. But yellows have a hard time with that. And they are afraid to face facts. They don't like
00:23:42.880 being tied to ownership of what's going on in their life. Unfocused. They have a hard time staying
00:23:49.300 with things. They can be very irresponsible. Oh yeah, yeah. I know I said that, but that doesn't
00:23:53.400 matter anymore. And they'll blow off consequences. So.
00:23:57.420 And you're yellow, correct?
00:23:58.820 I am yellow. Absolutely. Yep.
00:24:00.740 And you've done well for yourself. It seems like.
00:24:02.880 I was very fortunate to be raised by a very red mother and a good,
00:24:06.540 good father that was very blue, but she owned me. The thing you want to do with yellows,
00:24:11.720 if you adore them, you can own them. But if you don't adore them, they are rebellious,
00:24:16.640 even to their own chagrin. Like they'll even lose ground. But if you want to own a yellow,
00:24:22.280 you have to adore them. And no other color demands that, but yellow.
00:24:25.620 Okay. So yeah, like white, yellow doesn't like to be controlled, but one way you can connect with
00:24:30.460 them is just praise them, give them lots of admiration.
00:24:33.300 Absolutely. And like them. And you know, what's funny about that is that yellows need structure.
00:24:39.140 Their life is better with it, but they tend to resist it and fight it. So if you really want
00:24:42.880 to provide that for them, you have to do it with a spoonful of sugar.
00:24:46.720 Gotcha. Okay. So red motivated by power. Blue is motivated by intimacy. Whites motivated by peace
00:24:54.000 and yellows motivated by fun.
00:24:56.300 Right.
00:24:57.080 I didn't ask you, are any famous whites off the top of your head?
00:25:00.000 Yeah. I think Albert Einstein was a white, certainly Jimmy Carter as a president was a
00:25:05.940 better human being than president in my mind, but he's a great man. Very, very committed to the
00:25:10.380 well-being of others and not about himself. Yeah. That's another white trait.
00:25:14.580 Okay. What about famous yellows?
00:25:17.740 Oh yeah. You have Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. They're both classic yellows. Republicans didn't like
00:25:22.400 Bill Clinton, but they couldn't touch him. Democrats didn't like Reagan. They couldn't touch him.
00:25:26.240 Very yellow. Very, very engaging and fun people. And then a lot of Hollywood stars are yellow as well.
00:25:32.680 Well, that's interesting. So you mentioned Hollywood stars tend to be yellow.
00:25:35.920 Different colors, are they attracted to different careers?
00:25:38.940 Very much so. Yeah, that's a great question. Blues typically want to teach a lot of teachers and
00:25:44.240 that. And by the way, all principals start as teachers, but most principals are red.
00:25:49.320 So it's interesting how they kind of move up the ladder in terms of leadership. Police officers are
00:25:55.560 typically more red and white. And you have CPAs, very few yellows in that world, more blues and whites.
00:26:04.300 So yes, every different kind of career appeals to different people.
00:26:08.640 We're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors.
00:26:10.760 And now back to the show. When you take this assessment, can you end up being labeled as more
00:26:20.720 than one color? Yeah, thank you. Here's the truth. You have a driving core motive. But like in my
00:26:27.880 situation, when I take it, I am 43 out of 45 yellow. I have to go yellow, to be honest. But when I can't
00:26:36.740 answer the yellow, I'm red. So obviously I'm a stronger yellow than a yellow who's yellow with
00:26:42.380 white. And yellow with white is more likable and less focused and driven. So your secondary color
00:26:48.880 would definitely impact you positive and or negative. And then if you have all the equal,
00:26:54.920 like if you're 12, 15, 14, 12, for example, you'd be white. At the end of the day, your driving
00:27:02.520 core is still lack of conflict, peace. But you have dimensions of each of them in you.
00:27:08.720 It's interesting. A lot of people say to me, well, doesn't everybody have everything in them?
00:27:11.680 And I'm like, no, they don't necessarily have that. But you can actually develop
00:27:15.720 all the traits of all the colors. Yeah. We'll talk about that here in a bit,
00:27:19.820 this idea of becoming charactered. Yeah. For me, it's interesting. So I'm all, whenever I take the
00:27:24.340 assessment, I've done it multiple times, different times, like it's always blue, like it's hard blue,
00:27:29.320 but that's the core. But then the thing that can kind of switch a little back and forth is my
00:27:33.480 secondary color. Sometimes it shows up more strongly as red and sometimes white. And I'm
00:27:38.420 wondering if it's because maybe your secondary color, it seems like it can be more influenced by
00:27:44.200 your nurturing that you got when you're growing up. But then also like your particular circumstances
00:27:49.140 you're in during different phases of your life, like a close relationship you might have can bring
00:27:55.720 out more of one of the other colors, like their influence does. Or you might get in a situation
00:28:00.800 that brings out a certain color to the fore. Like you're in a situation that requires you to be more
00:28:07.180 of a red. So your core stays the same, but you have to do more red things and that shifts your secondary
00:28:12.820 color to red. Great insight. Yep. You developed that. Right. That's exactly right. I mean, I remember,
00:28:19.360 for example, I was traveling so much in the world and I was so not assertive and I had to develop that
00:28:24.760 traitor. I was never going to get a room and these places that I would go. And so I developed the red
00:28:29.200 trait of assertion and that was not me growing up at all. So yeah, you can actually, but that's still
00:28:35.140 secondary. It's not my core. Right. And you talk about some of these combinations, they work better
00:28:40.120 than others. I think you said the most difficult one to have is blue, red or red, blue. You know,
00:28:46.580 they're my favorite people. Honestly, I'm there everything I'm not, but I love these people. They're so
00:28:51.480 real and they're so genuine and their battle is so real. They fight in their head. Blue with red is
00:28:57.420 even the hardest because they'll do these negative red traits and then they'll feel apologetic and bad
00:29:02.740 about it, but there's nothing they can't do, but they fight with themselves all the time. So, and even
00:29:08.920 in a combination of two people, red, blue is a very common marriage, but they will struggle. There's no
00:29:15.200 question because the reality is they both want control and they both make good points as to why they
00:29:19.820 should be in control. So I would say that's probably a more difficult one. I have a lot,
00:29:24.140 lots of clients through the years that are red and blue, just trying to figure each other out how to
00:29:28.000 navigate each other. So a red, blue relationship can be difficult. How do some of the other colors
00:29:33.480 combine in relationships? The easier ones are like red, white, you know, and blue, yellow. They're an
00:29:40.640 easier blend. Whites and yellows are not a common blend in marriage. It's there's lacking leadership
00:29:47.180 typically. And typically in that scenario, the yellow will turn more red and be more of a leader
00:29:53.200 in that relationship. But every color can marry well with any color. That's so important people
00:29:59.820 understand. You're not limited by saying, well, I can't marry you because you are a yellow or a white.
00:30:05.200 That's bad for me. That's not healthy at all to have that mindset.
00:30:08.800 Right. So you don't, when you're thinking about popping the question, you don't want to say,
00:30:11.180 I need to take this Hartman personality test. And if it's, if, if I'm a blue and he turns out
00:30:16.640 you're red, it's off, no dice. We're not going any further. No, no. You know what's sad about
00:30:22.000 that, Brett? I don't ever want someone to think that I believe that means it's not a good relationship.
00:30:27.040 What I wish people knew was, okay, so if I'd marry you, these are realities we will have.
00:30:32.720 That's all. Just know what you're going to deal with. And I think all of us have to overlook things
00:30:37.940 in relationships anyway. Right. So you can then decide better. Oh, you know what? I get that now,
00:30:43.420 but I still want who you are and what you are for me in my life. And, or, and, or I don't. Right.
00:30:49.460 Blue, blue relationships work really well. I'm in a blue, blue marriage and blue, yellow get along
00:30:55.680 really well. You said.
00:30:57.100 Yes. Because the blue is very sincere and very genuine, but the yellow brings that kind of playful,
00:31:02.220 lighter part and the yellow is less responsible. So the blues want more, no, Hey, we need to put this
00:31:07.220 boundary around this. So yeah, they do pretty well that way. Yeah.
00:31:10.680 What about reds? What was the ones that they connected us with in a relationship?
00:31:13.620 Reds do really well with whites. Like they're so, here's the difference. Like blues and yellows
00:31:17.240 are emotion based, right? And reds and whites are both logic based. And so, and I still think about
00:31:23.240 this time where I was doing a retreat down in Mexico and this white woman who was just absolutely
00:31:28.940 a wonderful human being, gentle and easy. And this red man said to her, why don't you marry
00:31:34.080 your red husband? And she goes, I wanted someone to tell me what to do.
00:31:39.280 And this man adored her. Like they had built this incredible relationship together. And I,
00:31:44.420 and I love red white because whites are not ego based and reds are typically. So what you find is
00:31:51.480 they are, they're more compatible. They understand the intellect behind each other. It's less emotional,
00:31:56.580 but deeply caring.
00:31:58.640 What about yellows and reds? Do they get along?
00:32:01.120 Yeah. Actually they can do very well together. They're actually more feisty.
00:32:04.620 If you're yellow and red together, they're more feisty with each other. So if they're healthy,
00:32:08.680 it can be a really exciting blend. But if they're not healthy, like the red will say,
00:32:13.000 you're too irresponsible for me. I can't respect you. Or the yellow will say, you're just too
00:32:16.820 mean spirited. You're not fun. That's the negative side of that dimension. But when they're
00:32:21.200 healthy, it can be a very positive, not a lot of baggage that kind of move on pretty freely.
00:32:25.820 So yeah, I like this idea. I want to dig into this idea of healthy and unhealthy. You talk about that
00:32:30.040 in the book, part of developing your personality or kind of harnessing it is you want to harness the
00:32:35.880 good things about it and kind of mitigate the negatives. That's like a healthy, unhealthy is
00:32:40.980 where you're just letting the negative take control of your life. And then there's another one you
00:32:46.020 mentioned that was, it's like, where it's like just disordered. Yeah. The sicko.
00:32:50.100 Yeah. What's a sicko like? What do they look like?
00:32:51.980 Well, the sicko literally lives their life in the negatives of other colors that isn't
00:32:56.220 even them. I mean, it's, it's ridiculous, but they do actually develop those traits or
00:33:01.280 they, uh, for survival, they go there. It'd be like me as a yellow being critical. Like
00:33:06.620 who wants to have fun with me when I'm critical all the time? That's not going to happen.
00:33:09.940 Right. Or like a blue who really wants to connect, but they're so passive. They don't
00:33:15.020 ever say anything. They have this negative passivity about them that doesn't breed them what
00:33:19.100 they want or a red that is not productive. Like they're lazy. It's just, it's uninviting
00:33:25.160 of your core. So people that are sicko, they literally put out for the universe, the reasons
00:33:31.780 not to connect with them and be successful.
00:33:34.760 Right. And they probably feel a lot of discongruency in their life because they're not.
00:33:37.480 It's so true. It's so real. Yeah. And they can't figure out what it is, but it's them creating it.
00:33:43.520 A lot of the people you had as patients, as a therapist, like that had the biggest problems,
00:33:47.200 were they, were they that sicko type, that disordered type?
00:33:49.720 Yeah. The incongruence, they, and hard, hard to own it. They have a really hard time owning
00:33:54.700 what's going on with them as to why they're creating the world or they're creating. That's
00:33:59.420 the essence of the therapy is helping somebody see what role are you playing in your life?
00:34:04.900 Okay. So understanding your personality and your driving motive, that can help you embrace
00:34:09.840 the good that you have and feel that congruency where you're just feeling like I'm, I'm living
00:34:13.840 the life I need to live. And yes, there are negatives. There's downsides to that, but you
00:34:17.540 can, you can mitigate that and just harness those positives. And one of the things I, I mean,
00:34:21.800 that's useful too. I think that's really helpful for understanding yourself and trying to figure
00:34:25.980 out, well, should I take this job or how can I do my job in a different way? Or how can I show up
00:34:32.080 better as a parent or as a husband or in my church or whatever? But I think one of the really
00:34:37.380 powerful things about the color code is just, it helps, it's helped me like relate to people
00:34:42.120 better. Right. Cause like you can kind of, I mean, once you read this stuff and kind of
00:34:46.600 see like the, what the strengths and weaknesses are of the different personality, you can see
00:34:50.760 your friends and your, the people you interact with and you're not going to be able to do
00:34:54.220 like a full on assessment, but you're kind of able to see like, well, they're, they're,
00:34:57.480 it looks like they might be this, like they might be a blue. That's right. And so I'm able
00:35:01.500 to relate with them in a, in a way that, that brings out the best in them.
00:35:06.140 That makes me happy. That's exactly the point that I wrote it for. Yeah. You know,
00:35:10.440 see who you are and then forgive people for being who they are.
00:35:13.440 Right. Cause I, I think I, we were talking about this earlier before we started this
00:35:17.040 conversation. I think oftentimes whenever we, I mean, cognitively people understand or
00:35:23.020 know that other people don't see the world as they do, but then when we actually interact
00:35:28.220 with people, we get really frustrated that they don't do the things or see the world that
00:35:33.060 we do. And then we, we, what ends up happening is we attribute that to some sort of moral
00:35:38.240 failure. Right. So it's like, like a blue, you know, they're really about loyalty and,
00:35:43.860 you know, sticking to commitments. And so if you make a commitment with your yellow friend
00:35:47.880 and then your yellow friend, you know, they flake out because something else came up and
00:35:51.500 they just forgot it. And you'd say, man, that yellow friend is just a terrible person and
00:35:56.220 they're bad and blah, blah, blah. But actually once you have this color coded idea, it's like,
00:36:00.460 no, it's not that they're bad. It's just like, that's just how they, that's how they do
00:36:04.960 things. Yeah. And you know, sad about that too, Brett is to say, say that's you, for example,
00:36:09.220 you're blue and you have this yellow friend that you really enjoy. Like they, they color
00:36:11.920 your life in a positive way, but they're a flake. So you would say, you go, you know what?
00:36:17.260 They're a bad person. I don't want them in my life anymore. And you cut them out. You actually
00:36:20.760 cut yourself out of a very life enhancing kind of relationship. So it really is sad when people
00:36:26.480 can't give people a little bit of space and accept them as for what they are and then appreciate
00:36:30.800 their strengths, what they play to instead of what's negative about them.
00:36:35.040 Right. And so, yeah, you start seeing that people are, they're doing the thing that's
00:36:38.440 the most rewarding to them. And like, these aren't moral differences. They're just personality
00:36:42.980 differences.
00:36:44.380 Well, it's really kind of cool, especially for you as a blue to say that. Like it's so cool when a blue
00:36:48.200 steps off that chair at moral superiority.
00:36:51.240 Yeah.
00:36:51.780 And that's cool. That's impressive.
00:36:53.680 It's, it's helpful. It is really helpful. And I think also it's been helpful. It's, it's made,
00:36:58.480 okay, here's my blue coming in. It's made me more skeptical of advice, like life advice that's
00:37:04.080 given, but like in a good way. Right. Cause like, you'll hear these, you'll read these articles.
00:37:07.760 We put these articles out and you'll read these articles saying, well, you'll be happiest if you
00:37:12.080 do X. And then you have all this research that say, you know, people are happiest when they do X,
00:37:16.580 Y, Z, but people's individual advice is based on their personal experiences and like what they find
00:37:22.140 most rewarding. And like research studies, those are based on averages.
00:37:25.740 Yep. You're right.
00:37:26.420 So you might read this thing. Well, if I do X, I'll be happy. But like,
00:37:29.860 if you're a white or red or whatever, it might actually not make you happy.
00:37:34.560 It's not the same at all. Like if you force somebody into something, believing that will
00:37:38.180 make them happy. And that's not really what's going to make them happy. They're miserable and
00:37:41.120 wondering why. Right.
00:37:42.700 But if you knew yourself, you'd say, you know, what really makes me happy, for example, is
00:37:46.260 being alone with my dog in the mountains. That's really what I want. Well, you shouldn't want that.
00:37:50.060 You should want to be with somebody. Well, therefore we're making it impossible for them to do.
00:37:54.200 But it really does bring them happiness. Right. So like one thing I think you do these
00:37:58.540 studies that you can't trust your first impression. And that might be true for yellows. Yellows are
00:38:02.980 very like, they're just open to people and like, Hey, you're, you're a person. I like talking to you,
00:38:06.860 you, and I'm your best friends. And then, you know, come to find out like that person might be a
00:38:10.960 sociopath or whatever. Right. That's exactly right.
00:38:12.920 But a blue, like that's not true for blue. Like usually when blue has a first impression of
00:38:17.480 something or somebody, it's usually true. You know, what's so irritating about that,
00:38:21.920 by the way, my wife and I will go places and she'll say, not so sure about that guy.
00:38:25.920 And I'm like, are you kidding me? You hardly know him. How can you make that comment? And sure enough,
00:38:29.920 it comes out that she's right. Like, I don't have that gift of just intuition that you guys have
00:38:35.400 pretty impressive to me. But on the other hand, in the defense of the yellow, who's naive,
00:38:39.860 they land on their feet. Like somehow they bounce and they move on. So it doesn't scathe them the
00:38:45.080 same way it would being someone else being disloyal, like to a blue. Right. So everybody
00:38:50.080 has a different gift for how they get through life is what I'm saying. Yeah. Like another one I've
00:38:53.840 seen is there's studies that show that you get more pleasure planning a vacation than in taking
00:38:58.720 a vacation. And then that's probably going to be true for reds. Reds will probably love planning
00:39:02.760 that vacation or even blues. Blues might love planning a vacation. That's not going to be true for
00:39:07.380 yellows. Like they actually just want to go on a vacation. Never in a lifetime. No, no. I love
00:39:11.840 that example because I just had someone tell me that their father-in-law plans the best trips in
00:39:16.080 the world. But the minute they're there, he's bored to tears. And I'm like, what is the point if
00:39:20.980 you're not going to enjoy it when you're there? So you're right about that. Every color sees it
00:39:24.740 differently. That's right. Yeah. I've seen that also just with just our friends. You know, my wife and
00:39:29.680 I, we love to plan things. Yeah. And then you sometimes get really like, why, why isn't this person
00:39:34.300 planning anything? But it's like, well, no, they, that's not what they like to do. They just like
00:39:37.700 to show up and have a good time. So just appreciate that. Cause now you have somebody that can have a
00:39:41.840 good time doing the thing you planned. And honestly, they wouldn't do a good job of planning for you.
00:39:47.140 I promise you, you and your wife would go, why would they have planned this? My wife and I took 18
00:39:51.600 of us from our families to Peru. My wife planned this amazing trip for all of us to do. I could never
00:39:57.340 have done that in a million years, but appreciating what she put together. And then I was, you know,
00:40:02.100 fun when we're there, like, let's go do this. Let's try that. It's a great combination,
00:40:06.080 but you should appreciate the gifts other people bring. Like I appreciate the depth of what she
00:40:10.920 provides that I would not have provided on my own. Okay. So understanding your personality can help
00:40:15.660 you get the most out of life, maybe figure out how to intake or use advice that you see out there
00:40:20.660 that, so it lines up with you, but also help you relate to others and also give people a bit of
00:40:25.740 more grace. We'll say. Yes. All right. Yes. Good word.
00:40:29.200 So you have this idea of becoming character that goes beyond just developing your positive
00:40:35.160 personality traits. What does it mean to become character?
00:40:38.680 So character is any positive trait you pick up in life and develop that is not naturally yours.
00:40:45.540 So if you look at the color code and you have certain traits of you that are natural and then
00:40:51.220 traits you don't really have at all, like I said, working on being thoughtful for me. Well, okay.
00:40:55.820 How did that enhance my life by putting an end in my life? It enriched my relationships with people.
00:41:01.580 It disciplined me instead of living in the moment to take a minute and appreciate what someone had
00:41:07.360 done and send a note to them. I mean, I went on every level by doing that and it forced me
00:41:12.500 to be a better person in the process. Gotcha. Do you have like a suggested way to go about this?
00:41:18.220 I guess it sounds like you need to have, you need to develop your innate personality first before
00:41:22.200 you try becoming character? That's correct. You start by loving who you are. Start by valuing and
00:41:26.920 accepting your core. That's you. And then what you do is I have this theory idea tied around a coach
00:41:33.600 and a mentor. Like you pick two to three words you really would like to work on and develop.
00:41:42.040 And then once you've done that, then you decide, you know, who does that really well? Pick one to focus
00:41:47.400 on. For example, who is a good mentor that actually does that? Like say, say you're not really good at
00:41:52.340 living in the moment and you have a yellow friend who's phenomenal at enjoying when they're doing
00:41:55.820 whatever they're doing. They love it in the moment. Okay. I'm going to use that person as a model for
00:42:01.140 what I want to develop into, but that person can't show you or teach you how to do it because they just
00:42:06.100 do it. So then you need a coach and the coach would be perhaps a blue, for example, that used to be
00:42:11.840 stuck in planning and not living in the moment. And so they developed the skill of living in the
00:42:17.760 moment. They know the steps they went through, things they had to give away to do that. And
00:42:22.340 then you ask that person to give you clues on what might help you shift your perspective,
00:42:27.600 change your mindset. And so the coach gets you down the road and the mentor is this example of
00:42:33.520 what you want to look like when you're done. And you give it six months, like give it time to
00:42:37.540 actually percolate and happen and slips and slides. And it's not easy. And then just feel the relish
00:42:44.700 the joy when someone says to you, Oh my gosh, you are such a great listener. And you're going,
00:42:50.660 that's exactly what I'm working on. No one knew that. And what it meant to me at the end of the
00:42:55.060 day, when I heard that was those words. So that's the, that's the process of becoming more character.
00:43:00.280 It sounds like this could be useful in, in your work, right? You might be a blue and you might thrive
00:43:05.860 at your job with using your blue attributes or a red attribute or whatever it is you are,
00:43:10.720 but then you might reach a point in your career or there's certain situations with your work where
00:43:14.820 you need to be more of a yellow. Yeah. Yeah. And so you have to start trying to be a little bit more
00:43:19.580 outgoing and extroverted. Correct. It's going to be hard, but you do it because you want to be a
00:43:24.760 better person overall. Right. Right. And you know, what's funny about that, Brett, people that are
00:43:29.540 yellow will notice what you're doing and appreciate you even more. When you try and take on the
00:43:34.780 trait of a person, those people of that color really appreciate your effort and they actually
00:43:40.220 invite you in and respect you more. Right. So you need to know it only enhances your relationships
00:43:45.900 with other people. Plus you're becoming a better person at the same time. Gotcha. Yeah. I've noticed
00:43:49.800 that with me. So I'm a blue and I think blues tend to be more introverted. Yeah, they do. And
00:43:54.480 more introspective. Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not shy. Like I'm not, I don't have social anxiety,
00:43:59.100 but like, I just prefer to be with like small groups of people. Right. Or by myself. Right. But I know
00:44:04.160 that, you know, if I really want to get the most out of life, I have to expand my social circle and
00:44:07.900 just be more of a yellow. And so, yeah, I'll find, I'll try to find opportunities to put myself out
00:44:12.840 there and like just interact with people I've never talked to before. And, and it's, it's, it's
00:44:17.360 exhausting. Like after I go to like a party and I'm just mingling with all these people and doing the
00:44:20.580 small talk, it doesn't come easy to me. I'm actually having to exert myself like physically and
00:44:25.480 mentally and I'm tired after it. Yeah. And then I have to recharge. Right. But I do it. It's made my life
00:44:30.800 better. God, that's great. No, it's so true. It look at the, again, the motive. So the motive for
00:44:36.340 you not doing that would be fear-based. The motive for you doing that is love-based. Right. Like you're
00:44:41.360 actually the motive behind why you're stretching is very positive, proactive, love-based. And that's
00:44:47.660 why it works. Right. If people stay stuck in their own color saying, you know what, I'm a yellow. It
00:44:51.860 doesn't matter if I blow you off or not. I'm still a happy person. That is so fear-based. I don't want to
00:44:56.240 be accountable. I don't want to grow. I don't want to take responsibility. So that's fear-based. Whereas
00:45:01.320 the love-based is I want to enhance the relationship people have with me. So that's what you're doing.
00:45:06.960 Exactly what you're doing. You got to play to win, not to, not to lose. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly
00:45:11.540 right. And I guess if you're a red, that being charactered might be like, well, I'm going to just
00:45:15.740 be more like a white, kind of just go with the flow in this situation. You know, I will tell you
00:45:19.680 something. Reds have such gifts of leadership that if they could just see that by being more caring
00:45:24.960 and more like listening better than in asserting themselves, they could lead people so much more
00:45:31.420 successfully than they may be. It's just that they're adding gifts of depth and caring that
00:45:38.260 they may not think is necessary. In fact, I say to people, when you add to your traits, things you
00:45:42.860 don't need yourself, that's a genuine character. Like you don't need someone to notice you or praise you,
00:45:49.120 but you're able to praise someone else. That's really a step beyond.
00:45:53.080 Yeah. I like that. Well, is there anything else we haven't hit on with the Hartman personality
00:45:57.420 profile that you really are passionate about that you want people to know?
00:46:01.520 I think the essence of it is people are really good people. Like there's so much right with us
00:46:06.060 as opposed to what's wrong. You should not focus on the negative and what's bad, but also realize
00:46:12.000 that if you want to die better than you were born, you've got to take apart some of the stuff that's
00:46:16.200 keeping you from being your best self. That really is the joy of becoming a better human being.
00:46:20.660 And that's what I want them to know. And this is a tool that works. I mean, I promise you it works.
00:46:26.280 No, we, we love talking about the people code in our family and with our friends.
00:46:29.560 That's cool.
00:46:30.020 There's always, you know, we'll have an interaction like, Oh, that person was, that was a yellow.
00:46:33.440 That was a white. And it's fun. But again, you do it in a way we're not trying to put them in a box,
00:46:38.000 right? But it's just, it helps you figure out how you can relate better with them.
00:46:41.480 A hundred percent. Yep.
00:46:43.220 Well, Taylor's been a great conversation. Where can people go to learn more about your work?
00:46:46.300 The best thing they can do is go to taylorhartman.com. So it's taylorhartman.com.
00:46:52.460 Click on take the profile. And I'm giving your listeners a 30% off for the Hartman color code
00:46:58.900 profile and for any Hartman gift cards. So if they go to taylorhartman.com and click on take the
00:47:04.600 profile and then use the AOM 30. AOM 30. Okay. AOM 30. We'll be sure to put that in the show notes
00:47:12.740 as well. Enjoy it. Yeah, absolutely. Happy to have you on board. And you got your books too,
00:47:17.820 the people code and then the character code as well. And actually, just so you know, just literally
00:47:21.660 this week, it launched the Audible. So people can listen if they want from Amazon. Well, Taylor
00:47:27.100 Hartman, thanks for your time. It's been a pleasure. It's been a real pleasure, Brett. Thanks for you.
00:47:30.940 Bye now. My guest today was Dr. Taylor Hartman. He's the author of the book, The People Code. It's
00:47:35.700 available on amazon.com. And if you're interested in taking the color code assessment, it's included in the
00:47:40.240 people code book, or you can take it online on Taylor's website, taylorhartman.com. Be sure to
00:47:45.140 use code AOM 30 for that discount. And when you've done taking it, if you're on Twitter, make sure to
00:47:49.420 tweet us, let us know what your color is. Love to see that. And also check out our show notes at
00:47:53.460 aom.is slash color code. We can find links to resources. We can delve deeper into this topic.
00:48:05.080 Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast. Make sure to check out our website at
00:48:09.160 artofmanliness.com, where you find our podcast archives, as well as thousands of articles that
00:48:13.180 we've written over the years about pretty much anything you can think of. And if you haven't
00:48:16.440 done so already, I'd appreciate it if you take one minute to give us a review on a podcast or
00:48:19.920 Spotify. It helps out a lot. And if you've done that already, thank you. Please consider sharing
00:48:24.000 the show with a friend or family member who you think would get something out of it. As always,
00:48:28.000 thank you for the continued support. And until next time, this is Brett McKay, reminding you
00:48:31.420 to listen to the AOM podcast, but put what you've heard into action.
00:48:39.160 Thank you.