The Art of Manliness - The Most Insightful Personality Test

00:00:00.000 Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:00:11.680 Personality tests sometimes come in for criticism these days for not being very accurate or helpful

00:00:16.560 or for putting people into boxes. And it's true that no test can ever entirely peg the

00:00:21.500 complexities of personality and they shouldn't be applied with too much rigidity. But what these

00:00:25.760 tests are useful for is serving as a prompt for reflecting on the particular ways you think,

00:00:30.760 feel and act. And perhaps even more importantly, getting you to think about the fact that other

00:00:36.160 people can see and approach the world in ways that are fundamentally different from your own.

00:00:40.660 I haven't found a personality test that better serves as this kind of tool than what's called

00:00:44.400 the people code or the color code, which categorizes people into four colors, reds, blues, whites and

00:00:51.120 yellows. I've found it uncannily insightful and helping me understand myself and others better.

00:00:56.100 And it's become a regular topic of conversation amongst my family and friends.

00:01:00.100 Today I talked to the creator of the color code personality profile, psychologist, Dr. Taylor

00:01:03.900 Hartman. We discussed the strengths and weaknesses of the four color types, how to interact with each

00:01:08.580 color to bring out their best traits and how the colors combine in relationships. We then discuss

00:01:13.480 the importance of developing the strengths of the other colors besides your own process. Taylor

00:01:17.640 calls becoming character. After the show's over, check out our show notes at awimp.is slash color code.

00:01:25.760 All right, Dr. Taylor Hartman, welcome to the show.

00:01:38.680 Thank you so much. Good to talk to you.

00:01:40.460 Likewise. So you wrote a book a couple of years ago, several years ago called the people code.

00:01:45.580 I did.

00:01:46.100 We're going to talk about this book today. Before you started digging into personality,

00:01:50.020 you were a practicing therapist. So how did your work as a therapist lead you to exploring

00:01:57.040 personality?

00:01:58.480 That's a great question. I honestly had a very full clientele and a lot of men and a lot of men were

00:02:04.260 saying, I need answers. I don't want to just talk about it. I want solutions to problems. And I look

00:02:08.960 back at my training, I thought they didn't really train me well in that. So I felt people deserved

00:02:14.140 answers that were always going to be true, not subject to how old you were, how your mom raised

00:02:20.420 you, what your race is, what your religion. None of that should matter. At some point in mental health,

00:02:25.580 there should be solid answers like with math, two plus two is four. And I didn't have them. So I went back

00:02:30.980 to the drawing board to like a second PhD in trying to figure out, could I get a truth that was always

00:02:36.500 true across the board? That's what led me to the color code, which eventually became the people code.

00:02:41.660 Okay. And the color code and the people code, this is, it's a personality assessment that people can

00:02:46.480 do to help them understand themselves and their motivations. And then also other people. Let's

00:02:51.820 talk about personality in general. Like how do you define personality? Because we throw that word

00:02:56.660 around a lot, like, Oh, he's got a good personality or a bad personality. What is it? What is personality?

00:03:01.720 Well, it's a combination of preferences, needs, wants. What I brought to the table,

00:03:07.320 which wasn't there before was motive. Like, why are you driven to do those behaviors?

00:03:12.620 It's really a bundle of connections that make you who you are. And for example, no two people are

00:03:18.340 exactly alike, but it certainly helps understand there are preferences that each different kind

00:03:23.160 of personality can share. And that's what the essence of the color code is. It gives you this

00:03:27.700 beautiful insight into, Oh my gosh. Okay. So many people that are of this ilk,

00:03:32.300 they come from this perspective so I can be more tolerant and understanding of them.

00:03:38.080 Okay. So personality, desires, motives, just how we interact with the world.

00:03:42.920 Needs, wants. How do we develop our personality? Is our personality inherent in us or does our life

00:03:47.900 experience help shape our personality? You know, it's funny about that, Brett. Women have always

00:03:52.740 known this. You ask any woman, they'll tell you this child in the womb was unique. They don't come 1.00

00:03:58.080 the same. It's not genetic. It's in your soul. So every human being brings within themself

00:04:04.740 their personality from the, from the get-go and then nurture impacts it. But you start first with

00:04:12.420 your core personality that is uniquely yours. And then society writes on you.

00:04:18.360 Right. Sure. If you have kids, you probably experienced that. You have one child and you,

00:04:22.320 you saw them as a baby and you could already see their nascent personality when they were

00:04:27.520 an infant. Right. And they were completely different from the other, if you had another

00:04:31.940 kid, like my son and my daughter completely, you could see their personalities like-

00:04:36.180 From the beginning.

00:04:36.700 From the beginning. Yeah. And if you speak to them both the same, you don't have the same impact.

00:04:41.540 Right.

00:04:41.980 They don't take it the same way. That's very good. Yeah. You're right.

00:04:44.920 Yeah. Like my daughter was very strong-willed.

00:04:48.000 Yep. From the beginning.

00:04:48.900 From the beginning. She like wanted to do things by herself.

00:04:51.880 Independent.

00:04:52.200 And my son, you know, not so much. Um, yeah. Not like that. Yeah. Yeah. He likes more connecting.

00:04:58.320 Is he more emotional or is he more logical?

00:05:00.720 He's more like, he's both, but like I'm more emotional. Like he likes, he's a blue. I mean, 0.95

00:05:04.820 we'll talk about like what it is, but he likes to just connect and he gets nostalgic. And

00:05:08.380 sometimes when he talks, he's like 12 and he talks like he's an 80 year old man.

00:05:12.720 That is 100% true. Blues, you have a wisdom they almost come with.

00:05:16.680 Yeah. It's funny. My wife is blue and I have no blue and you marry what you're not. And

00:05:21.720 then you spend the rest of your life trying to fix them and make them what you think they

00:05:25.060 should be. But we typically, we have to appreciate the beauty of why we married that person in

00:05:30.660 the first place.

00:05:31.560 So let's talk about the Hartman personality profile. How did you develop it? What was the

00:05:35.140 process of you trying to figure out whether there's these different types of personalities,

00:05:37.960 et cetera?

00:05:38.900 Honestly, I used my clients. They were terrific guests, helpful to me in the process of trying

00:05:43.080 to figure out if I use these words against each other, what would tell me truly who that

00:05:47.280 person is, who I knew quite intimately at this point. Right. So I was assessing them that way.

00:05:51.740 And I had to play words against each other. For example, if someone is red or blue, I had to have

00:05:56.920 them come up with which one is more who you are, the blue or the red. So the instrument actually was

00:06:02.960 developed with my clients in mind, using them as a reference.

00:06:07.080 Okay. So it's very practical. You're developing this in the field.

00:06:09.860 Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:06:11.180 And how does your personality test differ from other personality tests out there? Because I'm

00:06:15.300 sure everyone's probably taken a Myers-Briggs personality test or some other type.

00:06:19.780 Yeah. How does yours differ?

00:06:22.100 So the beauty of the difference is everyone else is behavior-based. So you even answer the

00:06:27.820 questions based on your behavior. Mine is the only one that is motive-based. Why do you do that

00:06:32.780 behavior? What truly drives you at the core? For example, when yellows are irresponsible, people don't 1.00

00:06:38.980 necessarily see why is that. Well, because yellows crave freedom and they can be very, very much in

00:06:44.820 the moment as opposed to long-term. They don't think consequences. If you understand the driving

00:06:49.920 core behind that as to why yellow behaves that way, it makes you, helps you much better understand

00:06:55.120 how to engage them. And if it is your core personality, it helps you understand why you

00:06:59.000 react the way you do. So the motive, why you do it, that's what the color code people code

00:07:03.380 offers versus other instruments. Yeah. The thing I've noticed with those other personality tests

00:07:08.460 that focus on behavior is when I've taken them and I'm going through the questions where it says,

00:07:14.300 what would you do in this situation? And I could give different answers depending on the situation

00:07:19.460 because oftentimes behavior is contextual. Like I'm going to act a certain way in this situation.

00:07:23.720 Correct. But so what you're saying is the Hartman personality goes because it focuses on motive,

00:07:27.360 it avoids that issue. It's much more true at the end of the day. It's the thing I talked about

00:07:32.200 earlier. I want a truth that's always there. I mean, ironically, Brett, you'll love this. I am the

00:07:37.180 author of this and I thought I was red. And my wife goes, red, you're not red. I said, look at me.

00:07:42.080 I have a successful practice. I show up. She goes, are you kidding me? Where's your office? It was on

00:07:47.100 the beach, literally on the beach. And if a client didn't come, she goes, what do you do? I said, I go

00:07:51.300 to the beach. I have 45 minutes to enjoy myself. She goes, a red does not do that. You're missing the 1.00

00:07:56.180 point totally. But my mom was so red. I figured that's what I had to be. So I'm buying 0.99

00:08:02.080 into the behavior as opposed to the driving core underneath the behavior, which is fun.

00:08:07.840 How can knowing your innate motive help you better navigate life and develop as a person?

00:08:14.300 First of all, you want life to be congruent. And if you're not living true to your core motive,

00:08:18.920 you'll never be happy. It won't happen for you. For example, blue personalities that have been scarred 0.98

00:08:23.360 or hurt, they refuse to be vulnerable and engage. Well, they're driven by the core of intimacy.

00:08:29.600 They have to have that connection. They're depriving themselves of the very thing,

00:08:34.140 the essence of breathing. I always say to people, for example, if you block a red from getting from 1.00

00:08:39.020 A to B, you're just keeping them from breathing. You're like choking them. Well, that's not choking

00:08:43.820 a white, but it's choking a red. So understanding why that's so important frees you to really enable

00:08:50.300 other people to succeed as well as yourself. Let's talk about personality tests in general. Lately,

00:08:55.300 they've come in for some criticism because they say, you know, they're not accurate or helpful.

00:08:59.760 How do you respond to that criticism towards personality tests in general?

00:09:03.360 I think it's legit. I mean, I hate to say it, but the reality is, first of all,

00:09:07.580 when you're just describing behavior, that's too superficial to really get at the core truth.

00:09:11.780 On the other hand, I admit that because mine is much deeper, it also is more threatening,

00:09:16.080 which I understand that is not necessarily comfortable for people. Or you label someone with it.

00:09:20.600 Like if I use it as a hammer by saying, oh my gosh, you're blue. Are you kidding me? That's

00:09:25.300 worthless. Or I dismiss you because I don't like your personality. Those kinds of things are very

00:09:30.080 harsh. It's not like you say, you don't like my tennis game. You're talking about my very core of

00:09:34.400 who I am. So it can be very damaging in my mind if you misuse these interpretations.

00:09:39.660 They can put you in a box, maybe.

00:09:41.360 A hundred percent. Absolutely.

00:09:42.900 But I imagine with your test or just personality test in general,

00:09:46.280 it requires a deep amount of self-awareness. Because I think sometimes we think we're one

00:09:51.160 way. Like we have this idea of how we are in our head, but we're really not that way.

00:09:55.480 And sometimes with these tests, we answer the questions according to what we want to be

00:10:00.140 true about us, but isn't. Yeah, that's right.

00:10:03.100 And that can get tricky too. Very tricky because we lie to ourselves.

00:10:06.740 And of course, I'm kind of naive. Like yellow has naivety. I'm like, why would you ever lie to 1.00

00:10:11.240 yourself about who you are? Like, why wouldn't you want to know? But that was naive. I mean,

00:10:14.680 the reality is many people don't want to be what they are, which is tragic, by the way,

00:10:18.940 because you can't change that. Your core is who you are and always will be.

00:10:22.780 But I do think that it's maybe threatening for some people to have to admit something,

00:10:27.840 especially if they're raised not to believe what they are is okay. That can be very painful.

00:10:32.440 Okay. So let's walk through the four types of personalities your assessment identifies.

00:10:36.600 So we've been saying things like there's reds, blues, whites, and yellows. Those are the four. 0.98

00:10:40.680 Yep.

00:10:41.000 So what percentage of the population makes up each one that you found?

00:10:44.880 Yeah. So blues are 35%. Reds are 25%. Whites are 20%. And yellows are 20%. 0.96

00:10:52.020 Okay. All right. So let's do kind of a thumbnail sketch of these different personality types. Let's

00:10:55.820 start off with reds. 0.79

00:10:57.220 Well, of course, because they get angry if you don't.

00:10:59.040 Yeah. So a thumbnail sketch of reds, like what motivates them? What are their strengths,

00:11:03.020 et cetera?

00:11:03.960 Okay. So let's start with their motivation, which is power. And power simply means moving from A to B.

00:11:09.040 That's all it means. They need to get things done. They are decisive, assertive,

00:11:13.660 you know, responsible. They're proactive. They don't whine a lot. They're logical. Like if you're

00:11:18.900 dating a red, I promise you, they want you to look good on their arm and they'll get things done. 0.96

00:11:22.620 They'll take care of business. Very determined and efficient. That kind of red stuff. Negative side

00:11:28.280 though, they can be very arrogant. I don't know what it is with reds. They literally are born with a, 1.00

00:11:32.120 I am right gene in their DNA. So being right all the time, they can be argumentative and it's not a

00:11:38.100 negative argument. They just like debating. They can be arrogant. Like I'm better than you.

00:11:42.620 A critical of others. They notice things that are not. Impatience is a big red trait.

00:11:46.760 So that's red in essence.

00:11:49.200 So what are reds like as a spouse, parent, employee, et cetera? 0.98

00:11:53.780 They're phenomenal at getting things done. They're great leaders. They're very resourceful.

00:11:57.500 They can be very demanding, frightening, like intimidating. Those are positive and negatives

00:12:03.280 of a red. And by the way, let's take mother Teresa and Putin. They're both red. So you can

00:12:10.160 see the difference in how they've influenced and impacted life with their red personality.

00:12:14.660 Right. So reds just, they want to get things done. 1.00

00:12:16.800 Right. Absolutely.

00:12:17.700 How should you interact with a red to get the best out of them? 1.00

00:12:22.200 Reds are all about respect. So if you have an interaction with a red and you know your stuff, 1.00

00:12:27.020 you speak to it very succinctly and briefly, do not ramble on. Blues often will ramble because

00:12:32.660 they want to be understood. And the red has no desire to understand. They just want to get the 0.82

00:12:36.500 facts. So very directly and bluntly and earn their respect. No whining. They don't like negative.

00:12:43.240 They like positive. They want answers, not questions. And speak up to them. If you're not

00:12:47.800 assertive with a red, that's your problem. They don't feel responsible for why you are not 0.99

00:12:52.460 comfortable speaking up. Reds are very confident. So if you don't, if you don't have confidence when

00:12:57.840 you deal with a red, they will dismiss you. Gotcha. So let's talk about blues. So what, 1.00

00:13:03.540 what motivates a blue? Okay. So blues and reds are so similar and so different. It's almost

00:13:08.780 frightening. Like blue people are driven by intimacy. They're all about the connection. They too love to 0.97

00:13:14.900 get things done, but they don't want to walk on people to do it. They are much more interested in a

00:13:19.320 relationship at the end of the day. Their intimacy means connection and they are like compassionate.

00:13:25.980 They're very sincere. I mean, you trust me when a blue says they'll do something, you can take it to

00:13:30.680 the bank. Very loyal, loyal to a fault, by the way. They're very loyal to the end, even at their own

00:13:36.020 expense. They're thoughtful. They think about things deeply. A lot of blue men are analytical and women.

00:13:42.680 And so they may think they're red, but blues are very analytical. Like if I want to sell you something

00:13:47.240 right now, Brett, you wouldn't buy, you need to think about it. I'd be very, I'd be very skeptical.

00:13:53.020 Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. I'm a blue full disclosure. I've taken the assessment. I am a blue.

00:13:56.920 Oh, very good. Well, the, the other, the other piece of that is your gift. Probably I think survival

00:14:00.880 gift is intuition. Blues tend to feel things and they feel them pretty accurately, to be honest with

00:14:05.740 you. But on the negative side, they are skeptical at the end of the day also, because they expect high

00:14:11.240 standards of everybody else. Always negative side. They worry way too much. Like they are so organized

00:14:16.260 and taking care of details, but they always worry. And they and the reds rival each other. The reds can 0.97

00:14:21.460 be arrogant and the blues can be self-righteous. It's hard for blues to forgive because they get

00:14:26.280 hurt so deeply. They also are judgmental. Moody. Moody is one of my most difficult ones is blues

00:14:32.180 because I'm so yellow. I'm like, why are you moody? Well, did you just see what happened to me?

00:14:36.280 Like what I'm going through? And they can be hard to please and overly sensitive. So those are some

00:14:40.800 positive negatives. The, by the way, reds and blues are the ones that spend their whole life trying to 1.00

00:14:45.620 control others. And whites and yellows are the ones who refuse to be controlled. 0.99

00:14:51.120 And, and so, so blues are more controlling than reds because of the moral that always drives them. 1.00

00:14:57.420 Okay. So yeah, blues and reds, they're all about control. They just go about it different ways. 0.99

00:15:01.320 Correct. A hundred percent.

00:15:02.600 All right. So reds are using, they're just going to be assertive and just like, 1.00

00:15:04.940 Hey, get this done. Blues are going to use more emotion. 1.00

00:15:08.120 Correct. That's correct. That's exactly right.

00:15:10.140 Yeah. Some of the other things about blues, like limitations,

00:15:12.580 martyr-like and complains about life.

00:15:15.460 They like almost being a victim. Like, it's like, well, look what I'm going through.

00:15:19.240 Right. Or self-esteem is dependent on outside influences. So they have often have an external

00:15:23.620 locus of control.

00:15:25.220 It's such a great insight. Yeah. It's sad to me, by the way, they're so capable,

00:15:28.860 but they don't know that. They're like, you know, and they're so honest. Like if I,

00:15:33.520 if you're applying for a job, Brett, and you're red and I say, can you do this? You'll,

00:15:37.240 you'll lie to me. You say, of course. And then you'll go home and learn how to do it.

00:15:40.660 But a blue can't do that. The blue has to say, no, I've never done that.

00:15:45.120 When they actually might be the best at it. So yeah, blues do a lot more internal damage to

00:15:50.280 themselves, hard on themselves, never quite good enough. Perfectionism.

00:15:54.620 Right. But it sounds like, like a red, they can get a lot of things done because they're highly 0.96

00:15:57.120 conscientious. They're disciplined. They do a lot of planning because they want to make sure things

00:16:01.540 go right. Cause they want to look good. Yep. And et cetera. So there's some strengths and

00:16:05.580 weaknesses that. To both. Like honestly, there really are strengths and weaknesses to both.

00:16:09.580 Yeah. So if you are interacting with the blue, like what's the best way to do that, 0.96

00:16:15.420 to get the best out of them? Number one, you've got to understand them. I I'm telling you at the

00:16:20.460 end of the day, you, when a blue starts a story, don't say to them, tell me just the end, tell me

00:16:24.460 the result, tell me what I need to know. Let them explain to you how they got there. That's important

00:16:29.480 to them to be understood. And they're the only color that needs that at that depth. And then be sincere.

00:16:36.800 If you're not honest, you're not genuine, you lose connection. They don't trust you.

00:16:41.080 And that's a big piece to a blue at the same time. And then I, I think a really important thing with

00:16:46.120 blues is give them reason to believe what you're saying is in their best interest. Cause they,

00:16:51.560 they really are going to listen to them. They're going to think about what you said. And if it doesn't

00:16:55.320 add up over time, they will then become distrustful of who you are.

00:16:59.720 Uh, any famous blues off the top of your head?

00:17:02.860 Yeah. Abraham Lincoln's a great example, a phenomenal blue, like deeply, deeply committed,

00:17:08.220 very genuine. We can use more of those kinds of people in politics today. That kind of stuff.

00:17:13.460 Gotcha. All right. So let's talk about whites, thumbnail sketch of white. What is their big 1.00

00:17:17.580 motivation?

00:17:18.940 First of all, they're the least understood of the color code because they don't flap their lips a lot.

00:17:23.020 And so people don't really read them. Well, most other personality instruments miss on whites. They 0.94

00:17:27.780 don't get them correctly. They're driving core motive is peace. It's amazing how whites cannot 1.00

00:17:33.380 tolerate conflict. It just is so painful for them. They'll pass on things they don't agree with, 0.97

00:17:40.080 but they don't want the conflict. So they're very peace oriented. Their number one gift is kindness.

00:17:45.800 They will literally not so compassionate like a blue, but they're also not judgmental like the blue.

00:17:50.560 They're kind and very, very easily like entertained. They may be boring, but they're not bored.

00:17:57.080 They're fine within their own skin. Very even tempered. It's kind of funny. I always

00:18:01.360 have this great slide that I use in trainings where you, you showed this person and there's all

00:18:05.800 these different like experiences, like excited, angry, happy, satisfied. They're all the same

00:18:12.000 face for white. They don't show any emotion and, and then they blow up. Like they'll take the hits 0.99

00:18:17.280 constantly and all of a sudden they'll blow over a small deal. Why is that? Because they don't want to

00:18:21.420 have conflict. So they, they stuff it all. And then eventually it comes out. They're great listeners,

00:18:27.200 amazing listeners. They never make it about themselves. Very like agreeable. It's always

00:18:32.200 room for another white at the table. They're diplomatic, very adaptable to life and patient. 1.00

00:18:37.640 I used to get so frustrated on the freeways in Southern California and my white daughter would go,

00:18:41.760 you, you know, it was going to be crowded when you got on. Like, why are you upset? Very accepting

00:18:46.260 of difference and diversity. They're not threatened by different ideas. A negative side. Oh my gosh,

00:18:52.360 they can be so indecisive. You ask a white where they want to go to lunch. They have no idea. And 1.00

00:18:56.640 they'll get angry if you make them tell you, cause they just want to go whatever you want to do.

00:19:02.160 And when you get an unmotivated white, I think breath, that's the hardest one for me. Cause they 1.00

00:19:07.400 just, there's nothing you can do. They don't care. I mean, a red that's unmotivated, you can nail them 1.00

00:19:11.800 and a blue is easy cause they want to please, but not a white. They're like, I don't need it. 1.00

00:19:16.720 So there's a silent stubbornness. You can look right at a white and say, we're going to do this. 1.00

00:19:22.060 And they will not show you yes or no. And then they'll do whatever they want afterwards.

00:19:27.640 They can be very self-deprecating, not real confident. They don't have a lot of belief in

00:19:32.300 themselves. They can be unenthusiastic, almost withdrawn. And like I said, they can be boring.

00:19:37.200 Like they don't have a lot to say very often. I remember the time my blue wife flew with my

00:19:42.080 white daughter. We were going back to California to get her teeth worked on. And my wife said,

00:19:46.900 I'm just not going to talk to her and see when, how long it takes. And they flew there,

00:19:50.580 did the work, flew home. And finally my blue wife blows up, says, what was wrong? And my white 1.00

00:19:56.880 daughter goes, what's wrong with what? Like we had a great trip. What's the problem? So they can be 0.99

00:20:01.740 very passive that direction. Right. So you said, okay, red and blue, they want to control

00:20:05.840 white. They don't want to be controlled. Not at all. Nope. And they're very hard to know how to, 0.99

00:20:11.740 when they're not being controlled because they don't tell you anything. They don't give you a lot.

00:20:15.460 Right. And then that's where the stubbornness can come in. If they don't want to be controlled

00:20:18.360 and you're telling them to do something, they might just give you the silent treatment and just

00:20:21.460 not do anything. 100%. The only way to win with a white, by the way, is you have to let them grow 1.00

00:20:26.480 the grass while you sit with them. They're looking at you to see if you're kind. And if you're,

00:20:31.700 and by the way, they can take direct feedback. They're not weak, but when it gets emotional,

00:20:36.040 and judgy, that's when they shut down completely. Like in the military, a lot of whites do really 0.76

00:20:40.800 well. They're fine with direct feedback, but they don't like going to get emotional.

00:20:44.500 Right. So they, they resent being pressured to do things, nudging them all the time. Like,

00:20:48.320 so if you have a kid who's a white, like telling like, you got to clean your room, clean your room,

00:20:50.880 clean your room. That's probably not going to work. Drives them crazy. Yeah. And they'll hit you.

00:20:55.140 They resent you the person, not just what you're saying. And they, they probably won't say

00:20:57.980 anything though, because again, their main motive is peace. That's correct. They don't want the conflict

00:21:03.240 and they don't want to be mean, but you know, they're mean by not saying anything.

00:21:07.160 So they, I guess they might take a more passive aggressive approach is what we would say.

00:21:10.560 100%. Oh, that's, that is the crux of a white. 1.00

00:21:14.220 Yeah. You gave a good story from a client you had years ago where it was a husband. The husband was

00:21:19.840 a white. I think the wife was a red and the wife was just getting really angry at the husband. She 0.87

00:21:24.440 started throwing stuff on the ground and the white husband didn't say anything. It just started

00:21:28.820 sweeping up the stuff. Yeah. And it just made the red wife even more angry that he wasn't 0.99

00:21:33.920 responding. That's it. She didn't respect it. Right. She knew she was out of line. She was mean,

00:21:38.560 but it kills her that he would not respond. Okay. So, all right. So white, their motive is peace. 0.89

00:21:43.900 Let's talk about yellow. What is their main motivation? It's fun. Like yellows are fun. 1.00

00:21:49.240 Yellows are what you want to be when you're like zero to 18. Like they're just fun. They're the party.

00:21:54.120 At the restaurant, they're at the table next to you having such a great time in life.

00:21:59.300 They're driven by fun. And that means living in the moment, whatever that might be.

00:22:03.400 The interesting thing about yellows is people who are raising yellows are like, 0.99

00:22:06.740 are they ever going to make it? Like, what are they going to do? Like after that part of their

00:22:10.020 life goes, freedom is like number two. Fun is the driving core and freedom is the number two

00:22:17.400 trait they crave. They're very enthusiastic, optimistic, hard not to like unless you're raising one,

00:22:22.880 very carefree. Like they don't worry about things at all. They just go and life figures it out.

00:22:28.100 Optimistic. They're spontaneous. Yellows don't really like long-term planning. They like short-term

00:22:32.940 things, just opportunities. They wake up happy. I remember I worked on being thoughtful,

00:22:38.560 a blue trait for like six months. And my wife said, Oh, that's a real hard one. Cause she's so blue. 0.99

00:22:43.560 I said, okay, why don't you wake up happy every day? And she's like, Oh, I get it. It's different for

00:22:48.780 all of us. So happiness is something yellows do naturally. Very charismatic. They're very sociable.

00:22:54.760 They like engaging. If you want to really get a yellow, send them to the room. They go crazy. 1.00

00:23:00.340 They don't want to be with themselves alone for a half an hour, but a white would live there if they 1.00

00:23:04.440 could. And so they're very trusting and playful. The negative side, they're very self-centered.

00:23:09.000 Like I'm going to go do this. If you want to come, great. If not, then I'll just go do it.

00:23:11.920 Anyway, uncommitted. They don't understand the idea of being responsible to what you say you're

00:23:18.600 going to do and following through. They're disorganized. Like their rooms, my office,

00:23:24.260 my wife has to come in like every three months and say, Oh my gosh, this is obliterated. I got to

00:23:28.180 figure it out. And they're impulsive and undisciplined. Like doing the same thing every

00:23:33.340 day bores yellows to death, which is really kind of the essence of a quality of life if you think about 1.00

00:23:38.260 it. But yellows have a hard time with that. And they are afraid to face facts. They don't like 1.00

00:23:42.880 being tied to ownership of what's going on in their life. Unfocused. They have a hard time staying

00:23:49.300 with things. They can be very irresponsible. Oh yeah, yeah. I know I said that, but that doesn't

00:23:53.400 matter anymore. And they'll blow off consequences. So.

00:23:57.420 And you're yellow, correct?

00:23:58.820 I am yellow. Absolutely. Yep.

00:24:00.740 And you've done well for yourself. It seems like.

00:24:02.880 I was very fortunate to be raised by a very red mother and a good,

00:24:06.540 good father that was very blue, but she owned me. The thing you want to do with yellows, 0.98

00:24:11.720 if you adore them, you can own them. But if you don't adore them, they are rebellious,

00:24:16.640 even to their own chagrin. Like they'll even lose ground. But if you want to own a yellow, 0.71

00:24:22.280 you have to adore them. And no other color demands that, but yellow.

00:24:25.620 Okay. So yeah, like white, yellow doesn't like to be controlled, but one way you can connect with

00:24:30.460 them is just praise them, give them lots of admiration.

00:24:33.300 Absolutely. And like them. And you know, what's funny about that is that yellows need structure. 0.97

00:24:39.140 Their life is better with it, but they tend to resist it and fight it. So if you really want

00:24:42.880 to provide that for them, you have to do it with a spoonful of sugar.

00:24:46.720 Gotcha. Okay. So red motivated by power. Blue is motivated by intimacy. Whites motivated by peace 0.98

00:24:54.000 and yellows motivated by fun.

00:24:56.300 Right.

00:24:57.080 I didn't ask you, are any famous whites off the top of your head?

00:25:00.000 Yeah. I think Albert Einstein was a white, certainly Jimmy Carter as a president was a 0.97

00:25:05.940 better human being than president in my mind, but he's a great man. Very, very committed to the

00:25:10.380 well-being of others and not about himself. Yeah. That's another white trait. 0.97

00:25:14.580 Okay. What about famous yellows?

00:25:17.740 Oh yeah. You have Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. They're both classic yellows. Republicans didn't like

00:25:22.400 Bill Clinton, but they couldn't touch him. Democrats didn't like Reagan. They couldn't touch him.

00:25:26.240 Very yellow. Very, very engaging and fun people. And then a lot of Hollywood stars are yellow as well.

00:25:32.680 Well, that's interesting. So you mentioned Hollywood stars tend to be yellow.

00:25:35.920 Different colors, are they attracted to different careers?

00:25:38.940 Very much so. Yeah, that's a great question. Blues typically want to teach a lot of teachers and

00:25:44.240 that. And by the way, all principals start as teachers, but most principals are red.

00:25:49.320 So it's interesting how they kind of move up the ladder in terms of leadership. Police officers are

00:25:55.560 typically more red and white. And you have CPAs, very few yellows in that world, more blues and whites. 0.51

00:26:04.300 So yes, every different kind of career appeals to different people.

00:26:08.640 We're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors.

00:26:10.760 And now back to the show. When you take this assessment, can you end up being labeled as more

00:26:20.720 than one color? Yeah, thank you. Here's the truth. You have a driving core motive. But like in my

00:26:27.880 situation, when I take it, I am 43 out of 45 yellow. I have to go yellow, to be honest. But when I can't

00:26:36.740 answer the yellow, I'm red. So obviously I'm a stronger yellow than a yellow who's yellow with

00:26:42.380 white. And yellow with white is more likable and less focused and driven. So your secondary color

00:26:48.880 would definitely impact you positive and or negative. And then if you have all the equal,

00:26:54.920 like if you're 12, 15, 14, 12, for example, you'd be white. At the end of the day, your driving

00:27:02.520 core is still lack of conflict, peace. But you have dimensions of each of them in you.

00:27:08.720 It's interesting. A lot of people say to me, well, doesn't everybody have everything in them?

00:27:11.680 And I'm like, no, they don't necessarily have that. But you can actually develop

00:27:15.720 all the traits of all the colors. Yeah. We'll talk about that here in a bit,

00:27:19.820 this idea of becoming charactered. Yeah. For me, it's interesting. So I'm all, whenever I take the

00:27:24.340 assessment, I've done it multiple times, different times, like it's always blue, like it's hard blue,

00:27:29.320 but that's the core. But then the thing that can kind of switch a little back and forth is my

00:27:33.480 secondary color. Sometimes it shows up more strongly as red and sometimes white. And I'm

00:27:38.420 wondering if it's because maybe your secondary color, it seems like it can be more influenced by

00:27:44.200 your nurturing that you got when you're growing up. But then also like your particular circumstances

00:27:49.140 you're in during different phases of your life, like a close relationship you might have can bring

00:27:55.720 out more of one of the other colors, like their influence does. Or you might get in a situation

00:28:00.800 that brings out a certain color to the fore. Like you're in a situation that requires you to be more

00:28:07.180 of a red. So your core stays the same, but you have to do more red things and that shifts your secondary

00:28:12.820 color to red. Great insight. Yep. You developed that. Right. That's exactly right. I mean, I remember,

00:28:19.360 for example, I was traveling so much in the world and I was so not assertive and I had to develop that

00:28:24.760 traitor. I was never going to get a room and these places that I would go. And so I developed the red 0.83

00:28:29.200 trait of assertion and that was not me growing up at all. So yeah, you can actually, but that's still

00:28:35.140 secondary. It's not my core. Right. And you talk about some of these combinations, they work better

00:28:40.120 than others. I think you said the most difficult one to have is blue, red or red, blue. You know,

00:28:46.580 they're my favorite people. Honestly, I'm there everything I'm not, but I love these people. They're so

00:28:51.480 real and they're so genuine and their battle is so real. They fight in their head. Blue with red is

00:28:57.420 even the hardest because they'll do these negative red traits and then they'll feel apologetic and bad

00:29:02.740 about it, but there's nothing they can't do, but they fight with themselves all the time. So, and even

00:29:08.920 in a combination of two people, red, blue is a very common marriage, but they will struggle. There's no

00:29:15.200 question because the reality is they both want control and they both make good points as to why they

00:29:19.820 should be in control. So I would say that's probably a more difficult one. I have a lot,

00:29:24.140 lots of clients through the years that are red and blue, just trying to figure each other out how to

00:29:28.000 navigate each other. So a red, blue relationship can be difficult. How do some of the other colors

00:29:33.480 combine in relationships? The easier ones are like red, white, you know, and blue, yellow. They're an

00:29:40.640 easier blend. Whites and yellows are not a common blend in marriage. It's there's lacking leadership 0.98

00:29:47.180 typically. And typically in that scenario, the yellow will turn more red and be more of a leader

00:29:53.200 in that relationship. But every color can marry well with any color. That's so important people

00:29:59.820 understand. You're not limited by saying, well, I can't marry you because you are a yellow or a white. 0.99

00:30:05.200 That's bad for me. That's not healthy at all to have that mindset.

00:30:08.800 Right. So you don't, when you're thinking about popping the question, you don't want to say,

00:30:11.180 I need to take this Hartman personality test. And if it's, if, if I'm a blue and he turns out 0.93

00:30:16.640 you're red, it's off, no dice. We're not going any further. No, no. You know what's sad about

00:30:22.000 that, Brett? I don't ever want someone to think that I believe that means it's not a good relationship.

00:30:27.040 What I wish people knew was, okay, so if I'd marry you, these are realities we will have.

00:30:32.720 That's all. Just know what you're going to deal with. And I think all of us have to overlook things

00:30:37.940 in relationships anyway. Right. So you can then decide better. Oh, you know what? I get that now,

00:30:43.420 but I still want who you are and what you are for me in my life. And, or, and, or I don't. Right.

00:30:49.460 Blue, blue relationships work really well. I'm in a blue, blue marriage and blue, yellow get along

00:30:55.680 really well. You said.

00:30:57.100 Yes. Because the blue is very sincere and very genuine, but the yellow brings that kind of playful,

00:31:02.220 lighter part and the yellow is less responsible. So the blues want more, no, Hey, we need to put this

00:31:07.220 boundary around this. So yeah, they do pretty well that way. Yeah.

00:31:10.680 What about reds? What was the ones that they connected us with in a relationship?

00:31:13.620 Reds do really well with whites. Like they're so, here's the difference. Like blues and yellows 0.55

00:31:17.240 are emotion based, right? And reds and whites are both logic based. And so, and I still think about

00:31:23.240 this time where I was doing a retreat down in Mexico and this white woman who was just absolutely 1.00

00:31:28.940 a wonderful human being, gentle and easy. And this red man said to her, why don't you marry

00:31:34.080 your red husband? And she goes, I wanted someone to tell me what to do. 0.78

00:31:39.280 And this man adored her. Like they had built this incredible relationship together. And I,

00:31:44.420 and I love red white because whites are not ego based and reds are typically. So what you find is

00:31:51.480 they are, they're more compatible. They understand the intellect behind each other. It's less emotional,

00:31:56.580 but deeply caring.

00:31:58.640 What about yellows and reds? Do they get along? 0.98

00:32:01.120 Yeah. Actually they can do very well together. They're actually more feisty.

00:32:04.620 If you're yellow and red together, they're more feisty with each other. So if they're healthy, 0.98

00:32:08.680 it can be a really exciting blend. But if they're not healthy, like the red will say, 0.93

00:32:13.000 you're too irresponsible for me. I can't respect you. Or the yellow will say, you're just too

00:32:16.820 mean spirited. You're not fun. That's the negative side of that dimension. But when they're

00:32:21.200 healthy, it can be a very positive, not a lot of baggage that kind of move on pretty freely.

00:32:25.820 So yeah, I like this idea. I want to dig into this idea of healthy and unhealthy. You talk about that

00:32:30.040 in the book, part of developing your personality or kind of harnessing it is you want to harness the

00:32:35.880 good things about it and kind of mitigate the negatives. That's like a healthy, unhealthy is

00:32:40.980 where you're just letting the negative take control of your life. And then there's another one you

00:32:46.020 mentioned that was, it's like, where it's like just disordered. Yeah. The sicko.

00:32:50.100 Yeah. What's a sicko like? What do they look like? 1.00

00:32:51.980 Well, the sicko literally lives their life in the negatives of other colors that isn't 0.99

00:32:56.220 even them. I mean, it's, it's ridiculous, but they do actually develop those traits or 0.91

00:33:01.280 they, uh, for survival, they go there. It'd be like me as a yellow being critical. Like

00:33:06.620 who wants to have fun with me when I'm critical all the time? That's not going to happen.

00:33:09.940 Right. Or like a blue who really wants to connect, but they're so passive. They don't 1.00

00:33:15.020 ever say anything. They have this negative passivity about them that doesn't breed them what

00:33:19.100 they want or a red that is not productive. Like they're lazy. It's just, it's uninviting

00:33:25.160 of your core. So people that are sicko, they literally put out for the universe, the reasons

00:33:31.780 not to connect with them and be successful.

00:33:34.760 Right. And they probably feel a lot of discongruency in their life because they're not.

00:33:37.480 It's so true. It's so real. Yeah. And they can't figure out what it is, but it's them creating it.

00:33:43.520 A lot of the people you had as patients, as a therapist, like that had the biggest problems,

00:33:47.200 were they, were they that sicko type, that disordered type? 0.92

00:33:49.720 Yeah. The incongruence, they, and hard, hard to own it. They have a really hard time owning 0.97

00:33:54.700 what's going on with them as to why they're creating the world or they're creating. That's

00:33:59.420 the essence of the therapy is helping somebody see what role are you playing in your life?

00:34:04.900 Okay. So understanding your personality and your driving motive, that can help you embrace

00:34:09.840 the good that you have and feel that congruency where you're just feeling like I'm, I'm living

00:34:13.840 the life I need to live. And yes, there are negatives. There's downsides to that, but you

00:34:17.540 can, you can mitigate that and just harness those positives. And one of the things I, I mean,

00:34:21.800 that's useful too. I think that's really helpful for understanding yourself and trying to figure

00:34:25.980 out, well, should I take this job or how can I do my job in a different way? Or how can I show up

00:34:32.080 better as a parent or as a husband or in my church or whatever? But I think one of the really

00:34:37.380 powerful things about the color code is just, it helps, it's helped me like relate to people

00:34:42.120 better. Right. Cause like you can kind of, I mean, once you read this stuff and kind of

00:34:46.600 see like the, what the strengths and weaknesses are of the different personality, you can see

00:34:50.760 your friends and your, the people you interact with and you're not going to be able to do

00:34:54.220 like a full on assessment, but you're kind of able to see like, well, they're, they're,

00:34:57.480 it looks like they might be this, like they might be a blue. That's right. And so I'm able

00:35:01.500 to relate with them in a, in a way that, that brings out the best in them.

00:35:06.140 That makes me happy. That's exactly the point that I wrote it for. Yeah. You know,

00:35:10.440 see who you are and then forgive people for being who they are.

00:35:13.440 Right. Cause I, I think I, we were talking about this earlier before we started this

00:35:17.040 conversation. I think oftentimes whenever we, I mean, cognitively people understand or

00:35:23.020 know that other people don't see the world as they do, but then when we actually interact

00:35:28.220 with people, we get really frustrated that they don't do the things or see the world that

00:35:33.060 we do. And then we, we, what ends up happening is we attribute that to some sort of moral

00:35:38.240 failure. Right. So it's like, like a blue, you know, they're really about loyalty and,

00:35:43.860 you know, sticking to commitments. And so if you make a commitment with your yellow friend 0.97

00:35:47.880 and then your yellow friend, you know, they flake out because something else came up and

00:35:51.500 they just forgot it. And you'd say, man, that yellow friend is just a terrible person and 1.00

00:35:56.220 they're bad and blah, blah, blah. But actually once you have this color coded idea, it's like,

00:36:00.460 no, it's not that they're bad. It's just like, that's just how they, that's how they do

00:36:04.960 things. Yeah. And you know, sad about that too, Brett is to say, say that's you, for example,

00:36:09.220 you're blue and you have this yellow friend that you really enjoy. Like they, they color

00:36:11.920 your life in a positive way, but they're a flake. So you would say, you go, you know what?

00:36:17.260 They're a bad person. I don't want them in my life anymore. And you cut them out. You actually

00:36:20.760 cut yourself out of a very life enhancing kind of relationship. So it really is sad when people

00:36:26.480 can't give people a little bit of space and accept them as for what they are and then appreciate

00:36:30.800 their strengths, what they play to instead of what's negative about them.

00:36:35.040 Right. And so, yeah, you start seeing that people are, they're doing the thing that's

00:36:38.440 the most rewarding to them. And like, these aren't moral differences. They're just personality

00:36:42.980 differences.

00:36:44.380 Well, it's really kind of cool, especially for you as a blue to say that. Like it's so cool when a blue

00:36:48.200 steps off that chair at moral superiority.

00:36:51.240 Yeah.

00:36:51.780 And that's cool. That's impressive.

00:36:53.680 It's, it's helpful. It is really helpful. And I think also it's been helpful. It's, it's made,

00:36:58.480 okay, here's my blue coming in. It's made me more skeptical of advice, like life advice that's

00:37:04.080 given, but like in a good way. Right. Cause like, you'll hear these, you'll read these articles.

00:37:07.760 We put these articles out and you'll read these articles saying, well, you'll be happiest if you

00:37:12.080 do X. And then you have all this research that say, you know, people are happiest when they do X,

00:37:16.580 Y, Z, but people's individual advice is based on their personal experiences and like what they find

00:37:22.140 most rewarding. And like research studies, those are based on averages.

00:37:25.740 Yep. You're right.

00:37:26.420 So you might read this thing. Well, if I do X, I'll be happy. But like,

00:37:29.860 if you're a white or red or whatever, it might actually not make you happy.

00:37:34.560 It's not the same at all. Like if you force somebody into something, believing that will

00:37:38.180 make them happy. And that's not really what's going to make them happy. They're miserable and

00:37:41.120 wondering why. Right. 0.85

00:37:42.700 But if you knew yourself, you'd say, you know, what really makes me happy, for example, is

00:37:46.260 being alone with my dog in the mountains. That's really what I want. Well, you shouldn't want that.

00:37:50.060 You should want to be with somebody. Well, therefore we're making it impossible for them to do.

00:37:54.200 But it really does bring them happiness. Right. So like one thing I think you do these

00:37:58.540 studies that you can't trust your first impression. And that might be true for yellows. Yellows are 1.00

00:38:02.980 very like, they're just open to people and like, Hey, you're, you're a person. I like talking to you,

00:38:06.860 you, and I'm your best friends. And then, you know, come to find out like that person might be a

00:38:10.960 sociopath or whatever. Right. That's exactly right.

00:38:12.920 But a blue, like that's not true for blue. Like usually when blue has a first impression of

00:38:17.480 something or somebody, it's usually true. You know, what's so irritating about that,

00:38:21.920 by the way, my wife and I will go places and she'll say, not so sure about that guy.

00:38:25.920 And I'm like, are you kidding me? You hardly know him. How can you make that comment? And sure enough,

00:38:29.920 it comes out that she's right. Like, I don't have that gift of just intuition that you guys have

00:38:35.400 pretty impressive to me. But on the other hand, in the defense of the yellow, who's naive, 0.95

00:38:39.860 they land on their feet. Like somehow they bounce and they move on. So it doesn't scathe them the

00:38:45.080 same way it would being someone else being disloyal, like to a blue. Right. So everybody 0.89

00:38:50.080 has a different gift for how they get through life is what I'm saying. Yeah. Like another one I've

00:38:53.840 seen is there's studies that show that you get more pleasure planning a vacation than in taking

00:38:58.720 a vacation. And then that's probably going to be true for reds. Reds will probably love planning 1.00

00:39:02.760 that vacation or even blues. Blues might love planning a vacation. That's not going to be true for

00:39:07.380 yellows. Like they actually just want to go on a vacation. Never in a lifetime. No, no. I love

00:39:11.840 that example because I just had someone tell me that their father-in-law plans the best trips in

00:39:16.080 the world. But the minute they're there, he's bored to tears. And I'm like, what is the point if

00:39:20.980 you're not going to enjoy it when you're there? So you're right about that. Every color sees it

00:39:24.740 differently. That's right. Yeah. I've seen that also just with just our friends. You know, my wife and

00:39:29.680 I, we love to plan things. Yeah. And then you sometimes get really like, why, why isn't this person

00:39:34.300 planning anything? But it's like, well, no, they, that's not what they like to do. They just like

00:39:37.700 to show up and have a good time. So just appreciate that. Cause now you have somebody that can have a

00:39:41.840 good time doing the thing you planned. And honestly, they wouldn't do a good job of planning for you.

00:39:47.140 I promise you, you and your wife would go, why would they have planned this? My wife and I took 18

00:39:51.600 of us from our families to Peru. My wife planned this amazing trip for all of us to do. I could never

00:39:57.340 have done that in a million years, but appreciating what she put together. And then I was, you know,

00:40:02.100 fun when we're there, like, let's go do this. Let's try that. It's a great combination,

00:40:06.080 but you should appreciate the gifts other people bring. Like I appreciate the depth of what she

00:40:10.920 provides that I would not have provided on my own. Okay. So understanding your personality can help

00:40:15.660 you get the most out of life, maybe figure out how to intake or use advice that you see out there

00:40:20.660 that, so it lines up with you, but also help you relate to others and also give people a bit of

00:40:25.740 more grace. We'll say. Yes. All right. Yes. Good word.

00:40:29.200 So you have this idea of becoming character that goes beyond just developing your positive

00:40:35.160 personality traits. What does it mean to become character?

00:40:38.680 So character is any positive trait you pick up in life and develop that is not naturally yours.

00:40:45.540 So if you look at the color code and you have certain traits of you that are natural and then

00:40:51.220 traits you don't really have at all, like I said, working on being thoughtful for me. Well, okay.

00:40:55.820 How did that enhance my life by putting an end in my life? It enriched my relationships with people.

00:41:01.580 It disciplined me instead of living in the moment to take a minute and appreciate what someone had

00:41:07.360 done and send a note to them. I mean, I went on every level by doing that and it forced me

00:41:12.500 to be a better person in the process. Gotcha. Do you have like a suggested way to go about this?

00:41:18.220 I guess it sounds like you need to have, you need to develop your innate personality first before

00:41:22.200 you try becoming character? That's correct. You start by loving who you are. Start by valuing and

00:41:26.920 accepting your core. That's you. And then what you do is I have this theory idea tied around a coach

00:41:33.600 and a mentor. Like you pick two to three words you really would like to work on and develop.

00:41:42.040 And then once you've done that, then you decide, you know, who does that really well? Pick one to focus

00:41:47.400 on. For example, who is a good mentor that actually does that? Like say, say you're not really good at

00:41:52.340 living in the moment and you have a yellow friend who's phenomenal at enjoying when they're doing

00:41:55.820 whatever they're doing. They love it in the moment. Okay. I'm going to use that person as a model for

00:42:01.140 what I want to develop into, but that person can't show you or teach you how to do it because they just

00:42:06.100 do it. So then you need a coach and the coach would be perhaps a blue, for example, that used to be

00:42:11.840 stuck in planning and not living in the moment. And so they developed the skill of living in the

00:42:17.760 moment. They know the steps they went through, things they had to give away to do that. And

00:42:22.340 then you ask that person to give you clues on what might help you shift your perspective,

00:42:27.600 change your mindset. And so the coach gets you down the road and the mentor is this example of

00:42:33.520 what you want to look like when you're done. And you give it six months, like give it time to

00:42:37.540 actually percolate and happen and slips and slides. And it's not easy. And then just feel the relish

00:42:44.700 the joy when someone says to you, Oh my gosh, you are such a great listener. And you're going,

00:42:50.660 that's exactly what I'm working on. No one knew that. And what it meant to me at the end of the

00:42:55.060 day, when I heard that was those words. So that's the, that's the process of becoming more character.

00:43:00.280 It sounds like this could be useful in, in your work, right? You might be a blue and you might thrive 1.00

00:43:05.860 at your job with using your blue attributes or a red attribute or whatever it is you are,

00:43:10.720 but then you might reach a point in your career or there's certain situations with your work where

00:43:14.820 you need to be more of a yellow. Yeah. Yeah. And so you have to start trying to be a little bit more 0.58

00:43:19.580 outgoing and extroverted. Correct. It's going to be hard, but you do it because you want to be a

00:43:24.760 better person overall. Right. Right. And you know, what's funny about that, Brett, people that are

00:43:29.540 yellow will notice what you're doing and appreciate you even more. When you try and take on the 1.00

00:43:34.780 trait of a person, those people of that color really appreciate your effort and they actually

00:43:40.220 invite you in and respect you more. Right. So you need to know it only enhances your relationships

00:43:45.900 with other people. Plus you're becoming a better person at the same time. Gotcha. Yeah. I've noticed

00:43:49.800 that with me. So I'm a blue and I think blues tend to be more introverted. Yeah, they do. And

00:43:54.480 more introspective. Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not shy. Like I'm not, I don't have social anxiety,

00:43:59.100 but like, I just prefer to be with like small groups of people. Right. Or by myself. Right. But I know

00:44:04.160 that, you know, if I really want to get the most out of life, I have to expand my social circle and

00:44:07.900 just be more of a yellow. And so, yeah, I'll find, I'll try to find opportunities to put myself out 0.52

00:44:12.840 there and like just interact with people I've never talked to before. And, and it's, it's, it's

00:44:17.360 exhausting. Like after I go to like a party and I'm just mingling with all these people and doing the

00:44:20.580 small talk, it doesn't come easy to me. I'm actually having to exert myself like physically and

00:44:25.480 mentally and I'm tired after it. Yeah. And then I have to recharge. Right. But I do it. It's made my life

00:44:30.800 better. God, that's great. No, it's so true. It look at the, again, the motive. So the motive for

00:44:36.340 you not doing that would be fear-based. The motive for you doing that is love-based. Right. Like you're

00:44:41.360 actually the motive behind why you're stretching is very positive, proactive, love-based. And that's

00:44:47.660 why it works. Right. If people stay stuck in their own color saying, you know what, I'm a yellow. It

00:44:51.860 doesn't matter if I blow you off or not. I'm still a happy person. That is so fear-based. I don't want to

00:44:56.240 be accountable. I don't want to grow. I don't want to take responsibility. So that's fear-based. Whereas

00:45:01.320 the love-based is I want to enhance the relationship people have with me. So that's what you're doing.

00:45:06.960 Exactly what you're doing. You got to play to win, not to, not to lose. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly

00:45:11.540 right. And I guess if you're a red, that being charactered might be like, well, I'm going to just 1.00

00:45:15.740 be more like a white, kind of just go with the flow in this situation. You know, I will tell you 0.94

00:45:19.680 something. Reds have such gifts of leadership that if they could just see that by being more caring

00:45:24.960 and more like listening better than in asserting themselves, they could lead people so much more

00:45:31.420 successfully than they may be. It's just that they're adding gifts of depth and caring that

00:45:38.260 they may not think is necessary. In fact, I say to people, when you add to your traits, things you

00:45:42.860 don't need yourself, that's a genuine character. Like you don't need someone to notice you or praise you,

00:45:49.120 but you're able to praise someone else. That's really a step beyond.

00:45:53.080 Yeah. I like that. Well, is there anything else we haven't hit on with the Hartman personality

00:45:57.420 profile that you really are passionate about that you want people to know?

00:46:01.520 I think the essence of it is people are really good people. Like there's so much right with us

00:46:06.060 as opposed to what's wrong. You should not focus on the negative and what's bad, but also realize

00:46:12.000 that if you want to die better than you were born, you've got to take apart some of the stuff that's

00:46:16.200 keeping you from being your best self. That really is the joy of becoming a better human being.

00:46:20.660 And that's what I want them to know. And this is a tool that works. I mean, I promise you it works.

00:46:26.280 No, we, we love talking about the people code in our family and with our friends.

00:46:29.560 That's cool.

00:46:30.020 There's always, you know, we'll have an interaction like, Oh, that person was, that was a yellow. 0.95

00:46:33.440 That was a white. And it's fun. But again, you do it in a way we're not trying to put them in a box, 0.77

00:46:38.000 right? But it's just, it helps you figure out how you can relate better with them.

00:46:41.480 A hundred percent. Yep.

00:46:43.220 Well, Taylor's been a great conversation. Where can people go to learn more about your work?

00:46:46.300 The best thing they can do is go to taylorhartman.com. So it's taylorhartman.com.

00:46:52.460 Click on take the profile. And I'm giving your listeners a 30% off for the Hartman color code

00:46:58.900 profile and for any Hartman gift cards. So if they go to taylorhartman.com and click on take the

00:47:04.600 profile and then use the AOM 30. AOM 30. Okay. AOM 30. We'll be sure to put that in the show notes

00:47:12.740 as well. Enjoy it. Yeah, absolutely. Happy to have you on board. And you got your books too,

00:47:17.820 the people code and then the character code as well. And actually, just so you know, just literally

00:47:21.660 this week, it launched the Audible. So people can listen if they want from Amazon. Well, Taylor

00:47:27.100 Hartman, thanks for your time. It's been a pleasure. It's been a real pleasure, Brett. Thanks for you.

00:47:30.940 Bye now. My guest today was Dr. Taylor Hartman. He's the author of the book, The People Code. It's

00:47:35.700 available on amazon.com. And if you're interested in taking the color code assessment, it's included in the

00:47:40.240 people code book, or you can take it online on Taylor's website, taylorhartman.com. Be sure to

00:47:45.140 use code AOM 30 for that discount. And when you've done taking it, if you're on Twitter, make sure to

00:47:49.420 tweet us, let us know what your color is. Love to see that. And also check out our show notes at

00:47:53.460 aom.is slash color code. We can find links to resources. We can delve deeper into this topic.

00:48:05.080 Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast. Make sure to check out our website at

00:48:09.160 artofmanliness.com, where you find our podcast archives, as well as thousands of articles that

00:48:13.180 we've written over the years about pretty much anything you can think of. And if you haven't

00:48:16.440 done so already, I'd appreciate it if you take one minute to give us a review on a podcast or

00:48:19.920 Spotify. It helps out a lot. And if you've done that already, thank you. Please consider sharing

00:48:24.000 the show with a friend or family member who you think would get something out of it. As always,

00:48:28.000 thank you for the continued support. And until next time, this is Brett McKay, reminding you

00:48:31.420 to listen to the AOM podcast, but put what you've heard into action.

00:48:39.160 Thank you.

The Art of Manliness - August 02, 2023

The Most Insightful Personality Test

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