The Art of Manliness - The Real (Decidedly-Less-Sentimental-Yet-Still-Wonderful) Story of WWI's Christmas Truce

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast and one of the

00:00:10.900 most famous stories to come out of world war one is that of the christmas truce of 1914 in which

00:00:15.580 german and british forces engaged in a spontaneous and unofficial ceasefire and spent the holiday

00:00:19.920 fraternizing with each other in the popular imagination the christmas truce was a time

00:00:23.600 which enemies put aside their differences to sing carols exchange gifts and even play soccer

00:00:27.720 and represented a sentimental flowering of peace and goodwill how much of the popular legend around

00:00:32.480 the christmas truce is true and how much is myth my guest today will unpack that for us his name is

00:00:37.440 peter hart and he served as oral historian at the imperial war museum for 40 years and is the author

00:00:41.780 of several books on military history including the great war combat history of the first world war

00:00:46.940 today on the show peter gives us some background on the start of world war one what led up to the

00:00:50.780 christmas truce and what life was like for soldiers in the trenches we then discuss how the christmas

00:00:54.920 truce began and what happened during it including whether the soldiers really played soccer what

00:00:58.920 the leaders of the participating militaries thought of the unofficial ceasefire how long the truce lasted

00:01:03.320 and how it ended peter explains that while the truce was certainly motivated partly by sentiment it was

00:01:07.860 primarily done for more practical and even strategic reasons we enter conversation with why even though the

00:01:12.780 real christmas truce is a less romantic event than commonly conceived it's still a wonderful story

00:01:17.580 about our shared humanity out of the shows over check out our show notes at aom.is slash christmas truce

00:01:22.500 peter hart welcome to the show thank you very much looking forward to this brad so you are a historian

00:01:45.080 who has spent his career researching and writing about world war one and i wanted to bring you on

00:01:50.140 the show because it's christmas time and i think a lot of people listening have probably heard about

00:01:55.000 a singular event that happened in world war one in 1914 where you had this temporary truce between the

00:02:01.500 germans and the british on the western front and they started celebrating christmas together started

00:02:07.100 singing christmas carols and exchanging gifts and it's become this you know legendary story so i wanted

00:02:13.740 to have you on to talk about you know what really happened you know what's true and what's not

00:02:18.060 but i think before you can understand what happened with the christmas truce you need to have a bit of background

00:02:23.580 on what world war one was like at this point so the war started in july 1914 and you have this collision

00:02:30.980 between two opposing alliances which included france and britain on one side and then you had germany

00:02:36.780 and austria hungary on the other when the war kicked off how did people think it was going to go i mean did

00:02:42.820 everyone think it would be over pretty fast and what was the strategy of these opposing forces

00:02:47.700 well some people thought it would be fast but a lot of the professionals didn't especially the british

00:02:54.140 ones people like kitchener secretary of state for war and senior officer haig they thought it would last

00:02:59.020 years but the french and germans they're they're at the root of it and they're both aiming for a quick

00:03:04.180 end to the war and the reason they're doing that is that they're not sure they can survive

00:03:08.480 a war of attrition i mean that would take the germans first they had something called the schlieffland plan

00:03:14.140 named after their chief of staff up to 1906 and he knew they couldn't win a war of attrition so what

00:03:20.980 he planned to do was to hold the russians in the east and knock the french army out as quickly as

00:03:26.620 possible but that's not really very easy it's a huge army it's pretty good and they've got a load of

00:03:32.600 fortresses along the franco-german border so he planned to hold them in the south and launch a massive

00:03:38.240 assault violating the neutrality of belgium and luxembourg and then drive into northern france

00:03:43.680 and that that was the idea his successor a chap called von moltke he he was more worried about the

00:03:49.520 russians so he sent more reserves to the russian front and he also slightly weakened the troops in

00:03:54.900 the south but the result was that was that was at the germans best hope of winning the war that was

00:04:00.520 all the all they had really it wasn't as you know hold the germans back and knock the french out 1.00

00:04:06.180 the russians they planned to invade east prussia but that's another story and they were defeated

00:04:11.120 at the battle of tannebo the french had their own fabulous theory a plan 17 i've always wondered what

00:04:16.320 plans one to 16 were like and that's based on the french belief in the attack so they're just going

00:04:22.280 to charge forward they believe in the moral superiority of the attack so they charge into well

00:04:28.060 alzace-lorraine basically and and it it's not quite as simple as that that the plan is basically

00:04:34.100 designed to knock the germans out as quickly as possible so both sides are sort of doing the 0.98

00:04:39.600 same thing and both plans fail that's the problem but joff that's the french commander chief he reacts

00:04:46.160 quickest reorganizes we get the battle of the marne which where the germans are utterly defeated and in 0.86

00:04:52.080 many ways that sort of decide decides the war it's just about when germany will lose from then on it's

00:04:58.300 very strange the great war that battle in september 1914 does sort of set the uh the scene

00:05:04.520 so uh and from then on that's where you get the trench fighting developing and and perhaps where

00:05:09.520 we're going to talk next yeah so i think when people think of world of one they think of trench

00:05:13.040 warfare but trench warfare didn't start right away uh it kind of developed over the course of the war

00:05:18.320 and it kind of you kind of spread like a fungus almost that's a great analogy so how did how did

00:05:24.960 trench warfare start how did you go from charging at each other to burying you know digging out these

00:05:29.400 trenches to fight each other well like most things it's not quite as simple as we sometimes pretend all

00:05:35.440 of us and and the thing is the french would dig in the germans would dig in when they had to early 0.57

00:05:40.740 on even in august there were trenches in the south but it sort of occurs and what happens is why do you

00:05:47.100 dig in well you dig in you you meet the enemy and uh the firefight begins you have to take cover

00:05:53.060 otherwise you'll be dead so use your entrenching tool to scrape a little bit of a hole and then

00:05:59.440 and then you you know the fire that the german fire say doesn't go away so you join up the holes you

00:06:05.160 create a trench and gradually it builds up from there and after a while it holds all linked together

00:06:10.620 to form a trench and then you start to get uh behind it you start to get communication trenches then

00:06:15.900 you get a support line for the reserves then a reserve line and the trench system builds up and

00:06:20.840 that's how it happens and it's promote it spreads that's how it happens in one place but it goes from

00:06:26.700 place to place because there's something called the the race to the sea which is a great name for 0.80

00:06:31.720 something because they emphatically weren't racing for the sea in late september and october what they

00:06:36.820 were trying to do is outflank each other and if you can picture it's like a game of leapfrog they sort

00:06:41.160 of jump up and each time they smash into each other dig the trenches and then try higher smash into each

00:06:47.480 other again and move forward the north smash into each other again until eventually they reach the

00:06:52.320 north sea which is why it's called the race to the sea but that's not what they were trying to do

00:06:56.140 and so when that grim business is finished you've got trenches stretching from switzerland to the north

00:07:02.660 sea that's how it happened so you said there was trenches starting in august but by what time

00:07:07.400 was like the clear like the western front that we we know today when was that established

00:07:12.240 uh around about uh october october november by november definitely uh once it gets through to

00:07:18.040 the sea it it's sort of it it takes a little while to fill in in some places you understand what i mean

00:07:24.060 sure but but yeah it was a a terrible business because they weren't ready for it not no no nobody

00:07:30.600 was ready for it the french the british the germans we weren't ready for it well because i think a lot

00:07:35.280 when people were going into this war they were still working under the assumption that war would be like

00:07:39.480 battles in the 19th century where we would charge at each other and there wouldn't be this

00:07:43.480 war of attrition so sort of they certainly believed in the power of the offensive they believed

00:07:49.240 they knew about the new weapons but they believed that the machine guns the artillery would mean that

00:07:54.600 the defense couldn't hold and you know what in 1918 that's true the defense couldn't hold but in 1914

00:08:01.620 the defense could because they could get into their trench they could put barbed wire in front of it

00:08:06.320 they could put their batteries behind them dig some more lines and the power of the offensive

00:08:11.920 fire just wasn't enough there weren't enough guns because you needed thousands of guns to break

00:08:18.420 through and they didn't have them until 1917 18 the british certainly not so it's a complex business but

00:08:24.460 once the trenches are there it's going to be painful so give us an idea what trench warfare was like

00:08:29.320 what was life like in the trenches murder uh murder absolute murder i mean i i i mean we're sat here

00:08:38.260 in the comfort of our homes and i'm looking outside now it's uh it's cold probably below zero out there

00:08:44.420 it's uh raining a bit no snow but picture it then just i mean if i stand for a bus i'm bald i stand for

00:08:51.420 a bus and i stupidly forgot my hat wait for about 10 15 minutes my head starts to hurt i start to feel

00:08:58.280 really cold and miserable now imagine in 1914 december 1914 up to your knees in freezing cold water and

00:09:06.540 slushy mud you cannot get out of it there are there's no woods to have duckboards to get you above the

00:09:12.840 water the trenches are too shallow if you get above the water you get shot by the other side both sides

00:09:18.000 have snipers you've got artillery shells crashing down you've got a dull repetitive diet endless bully

00:09:25.040 beef it's just awful and can you imagine being in the line in those circumstances just say

00:09:32.140 ow just sitting there with your legs in water freezing cold water for hour after hour after hour

00:09:39.080 for days oh i can't you know and people being killed around you as well just you know your best

00:09:45.340 mate can be killed shot through the head and oh terrible no and this was like it was the same for

00:09:51.400 the germans too like they were suffering just as much as the british they were suffering as well

00:09:56.560 they were better organized and because of the nature they were generally on the defensive by then

00:10:00.780 and so they generally were on the high ground so drainage and water drained down onto the british

00:10:06.120 so to speak but yeah they were suffering it's just as cold just as muddy just as awful the weather's

00:10:10.520 just the same for both sides the germans are slightly better organized but that's it and how close

00:10:15.620 were they like how i mean how what was the distance between both sides oh it it varies a lot but often

00:10:20.400 two to three hundred four hundred five hundred yards at this stage of the war that's not very

00:10:25.080 distance between yeah it's not too far still close in the second world war that would be close

00:10:29.900 okay so another interesting thing about world war one is later on the war most of the countries were

00:10:35.280 using conscription to fill its ranks but at the very beginning of the war both sides they were using

00:10:41.320 professional soldiers these are guys who joined the military because they wanted a career in the

00:10:45.400 military what were those guys like and how did they approach warfare and how was that different

00:10:50.240 from later on when you had people coming in who were draftees well the french and germans had

00:10:55.660 conscription but i know what you mean they had career soldiers as well within that system the british was

00:11:01.640 entirely uh regulars with a few territories and even they they were volunteers but the if to look at the

00:11:07.960 british regular soldier they were well trained excellent shots they were what i would describe as hard

00:11:14.640 bitten they weren't soft men they'd often had a lot of experience some of them even dating back to the

00:11:20.620 boer war which after all was only in 1901 too which is not that far before

00:11:24.640 1914 they were very good shots they had minimal experience of sort of modern technology often they

00:11:31.600 were there were there were gaps in how so how they use machine guns and generally the army weren't great

00:11:36.580 at using their artillery in 1914 but i think we're more interested in what the actual men were like

00:11:42.300 and i think hard bitten is my choice of words tough tough hard swearing hard living that's the kind of

00:11:50.600 men they were a lot of banter a lot of humor they would laugh at things that you and i would probably

00:11:56.020 send us screaming away they would just laugh and we always call it you have to you know laugh or cry

00:12:02.280 and they weren't going to cry yeah so there's a lot of gallows humor jaded cynical and it kind of

00:12:08.200 detached i mean it almost seems like yeah and how how is that different from say soldiers later on

00:12:13.900 from britain where they were draftees well in some ways they all start to move towards that but

00:12:20.500 certainly when you get the volunteers who weren't regular soldiers in other words the ones who joined

00:12:24.840 up for the war they tend to have a brighter sunnier attitude until they meet the reality of war and then

00:12:31.340 they start to drift into the same way it takes a bit longer that's all but they do start off with the 0.95

00:12:36.340 idea that uh where the americans tend to put it where's that goddamn shooting match that's what 0.99

00:12:40.620 they famously said when they arrived in 1918 and everybody's keen and enthusiastic they think they're 0.97

00:12:46.220 you know they'll show the hunt sort of thing and the germans are competent soldiers and they they're 0.91

00:12:51.400 very painful to meet and eventually everybody gets a bit down everybody becomes depressed by it it's it's

00:12:57.920 a terrible war all the way through start to finish well you see that dynamic of the difference

00:13:03.720 between like the the veteran soldiers and the new guys and all quiet on the western front that's from

00:13:08.560 a german perspective but if you've seen the movie yeah you see these young kids coming in they're all 0.97

00:13:12.700 excited and idealistic and then you have these veterans that are just like meh nuts this is dumb 0.86

00:13:17.600 cynical old pros and that's what they are they're cynical old pros when we say old i mean i'm 66 0.98

00:13:23.940 these people old pro regulars can be anything from 22 to 30 the young ones would be 18 there's a big

00:13:31.200 difference that's that's what it was like okay so war starts in july by august you had trenches

00:13:37.280 starting to form by october well established december comes around and there's this idea

00:13:44.080 that both sides would kind of pull back on fighting for the winter because you know the days were getting

00:13:48.780 shorter the weather wasn't great for fighting it was a time and that's been the case for instance

00:13:53.620 throughout napoleonic warfare his throughout history there'd been a campaign season and then there'd

00:13:58.540 been a rest season you know where you recuperate because of the bloody weather that's why yeah

00:14:03.460 that's how warfare has been for most of human history they fought when the weather was good

00:14:06.980 not in 1914 right okay so they so a lot of people thought there was gonna be this pullback but then

00:14:13.480 the british and french make this massive push during december now that that that's that's attributing

00:14:19.220 more influence to the british and is is wanted it's the french the french launch a huge push they

00:14:26.180 really do they launch hundreds of thousands of men forward in the champagne and artois regions

00:14:31.480 one of the offensive is backed by 700 guns which is more than the british have got in total

00:14:36.280 and they they launched those assaults in late december we the british only launch one brigade the

00:14:43.840 eighth brigade forward in an attack on messines ridge which is near ebbs which is in belgium

00:14:48.540 and that attack only involves about two or three battalions and it's a complete and utter failure

00:14:54.060 this represents the relative role of the british and the french on the western front in 1914 the

00:15:00.080 british are incredibly insignificant the french have something like 90 96 divisions and the british

00:15:07.760 well when they started they only had four but by this time it's become 20 or so i'm not too sure

00:15:13.380 of the figures i've always been really bad at statistics but the british forces were negligible in

00:15:19.140 comparison to the french but they got wiped they got it was the two battalions went forward one was

00:15:25.780 the gordon highlanders and i can't remember what the other one was but they got absolutely smashed it

00:15:29.880 was uh it was really part of a diversion to divert attention away from the french who in turn were

00:15:35.240 mainly doing it to try and pin german troops to the western front to allow the russians a bit of leeway

00:15:41.440 on the eastern front so it was it was all there's reasons for things but it was a cruel business and

00:15:47.760 the french keeps smashing into the germans throughout this period yeah it just seemed that 0.83

00:15:52.740 the british weren't equipped to hold the line they haven't worked out i mean what would eventually win

00:15:57.920 the war is something called the all-arms battle hours light years away they just didn't have the

00:16:02.780 firepower all they really had was their rifles which are they were very good with you can only fire 15

00:16:08.360 shots a minute and you only carried 150 or so so what use is that and very few machine guns no hand

00:16:14.980 grenades no trench mortars they were just lacking in the the basic means they need the firepower they

00:16:21.360 need to make a successful attack and of course underpinning all that a lack of artillery we just

00:16:25.700 didn't have enough artillery and actually we didn't have enough shells it's just the perfect storm the

00:16:31.420 french were better off but the british the british attacks were just total failures so what was morale

00:16:35.800 like at this point well morale was low it's it's just and those lads who were killed are just lying

00:16:42.140 in no man's land there's accounts of one crawling back in two or three days later just in in a terrible

00:16:48.660 state with maggots and things oh dear no just just awful well so then christmas eve arrives and there's

00:16:56.380 something in the air along the trenches there the british headquarters the generals they were afraid that

00:17:02.920 the germans were planning an attack on christmas eve but that didn't happen so what happened instead

00:17:08.480 well it's yeah one of the british generals smith dorian issued the thing saying we mustn't have

00:17:12.960 live and let live i you've got to keep on your toes you've got to keep because the germans could 1.00

00:17:17.280 attack germans tend to do what you don't want them to do they were a feared of an attack but what

00:17:23.360 happened instead is that the germans and it's generally the germans that started they started

00:17:28.080 singing christmas carols silent night things like that they put up lights christmas sort of lights

00:17:34.760 they put up christmas trees and this isn't everywhere i need to make sure we we understand

00:17:40.320 collectively that this is just in places on the british front it's not everywhere but this sort of

00:17:46.880 is happening and people are thinking this is a trick and and the british start to respond they

00:17:51.820 they start singing backwards and forwards so one-sided singer a carol and the other lot lot singer

00:17:57.840 carol and they'd even applaud each other across no man's land because they can hear it's not that far

00:18:03.020 and it's spontaneous it's not planned by anybody and it is but and it isn't everywhere it's it's quite

00:18:10.220 quite uh quite amazing really but it doesn't happen it happens in different places along the the front

00:18:14.960 correct well the french and germans have just been hammering hell out of each other and and feelings

00:18:19.760 are still slightly raw it does happen in some places but it isn't such a widespread thing as on the

00:18:26.720 british front uh definitely not and then the other thing you know besides you know singing carols

00:18:31.500 they started talking to each other what a lot of people don't know about what europe was like during

00:18:35.220 world war one is that a lot of germans had lived in london bad yeah so they knew waiters port butchers 0.58

00:18:41.580 there was many reasons and though some of the banter was uh two pints of beer waiter that kind of

00:18:47.040 shouting things across you know i want to hair cook somewhere hair hairdressers the usual banter

00:18:52.000 shouted across no man's land and they were shouting back and but a lot of them of course hardly anybody

00:18:57.220 english could speak german but a lot of them who'd been lived in london and manchester and birmingham

00:19:02.160 they could speak english so there was quite a bit of banter going on over that night christmas eve

00:19:08.000 we're going to take a quick break for your word from our sponsors

00:19:10.800 and now back to the show all right so christmas eve the germans sing carols they start talking to

00:19:18.660 each other put up christmas lights and then the next day is christmas this is the day that the british

00:19:23.720 traditionally celebrate christmas did the good spirits from the previous night carry over to

00:19:27.560 christmas day in some places yes and it's an amazing process of what happens it's uh some of the germans

00:19:34.460 show themselves above above the trenches and it it would be it would be quite bad to just shoot

00:19:40.520 someone who's being friendly i can't explain that if you don't understand that you're probably not

00:19:44.960 human if you know what i mean but it's just not natural to shoot someone who's singing carols and

00:19:50.260 waving at you from the other side of the trenches and and it's this gradually people show more of

00:19:56.080 themselves both sides start doing it people start almost walking into no man's land there are some

00:20:01.420 terrible accidents which nobody likes to remember there was certainly one chap who was shot because

00:20:06.400 he went too far and uh somebody shot him somebody perhaps who wasn't taking part in the truth and

00:20:12.200 and this sort of thing happened in some places but in many places they just spontaneously start talking

00:20:18.920 moving into no man's land just a few at first but then gradually there's more and more confidence

00:20:24.120 that the truce will hold if there is no formal truce it's crucial to remember that but that that no one

00:20:30.320 will start killing each other and they start going into no man's land and and meeting there isn't a

00:20:35.600 lot of barbed wire at this time and the ground isn't torn to bits the ground is basically farmland

00:20:40.680 the ground there's not enough shells to tear it to bits so it's not shell holes everywhere it's grass

00:20:46.160 mostly and they start to celebrate christopher they they give each other impromptu gifts they start

00:20:53.640 chatting to each other especially those germans obviously you could speak english small gifts are

00:20:58.300 exchanged and there's some wonderful things i mean in one place is the saxons the saxons

00:21:04.480 shout that they've got a barrel of beer and they drag a barrel of beer into no man's land and invite

00:21:10.540 the british to join them and i'm unaware of any british soldier who'd refuse that offer and that it's the

00:21:15.780 sort of thing that goes on of course it could have been a terrible trap but it wasn't there was it was

00:21:21.120 good spirited and the men met in no man's land perhaps we'll talk about the motivations everyone had

00:21:26.540 whether this was peace on earth and goodwill to all men or whether there were other motivations

00:21:30.780 behind it but the point was that this was an opportunity for these men to well they're curious

00:21:38.440 about the germans this is their chance to go and see them the germans are curious about the british

00:21:42.700 they can go into no man's land they can see their enemies they can meet them and and it it's just an

00:21:48.940 amazing thing that happens there are other motivations as i say we'll talk about that and just to be

00:21:53.820 clear again this is not this is not official the leaders of both sides didn't know this was

00:21:58.660 happening well they knew up to the level of say brigadier i i know i had an account of one brigadier

00:22:04.180 who sees it happening sort of and basically their viewpoint is you can't just gun people down who are

00:22:10.500 having a truce so what they do is uh it goes back to report when he comes back there's even more in

00:22:15.460 no man's land and so this is one of the motivations he dresses in a in a private's uniform you know pulls

00:22:21.900 an overcoat on and goes into no man's land because one of the reasons that officers at a sort of

00:22:27.640 middling level majors captains even colonels is that they can go out and have a look at the german

00:22:32.800 positions they could see what the so it's not peace on earth to all men it's going out and having a

00:22:38.440 look at that see what they can find out about the german trenches but it's also the reason that they

00:22:43.540 have to do it is to stop the germans getting too close to our trenches and doing the same to us 1.00

00:22:48.320 that this isn't all peace and love definitely not the other thing is that it enables people if

00:22:54.900 you've been crouched in a muddy hole freezing cold with snipers pinging bullets or machine gun

00:23:00.740 bullets pinging just six inches above your head it lets you go into no man's land stretch your legs

00:23:05.780 have a look around and what else can you do you can start to improve your own trenches no one's

00:23:11.460 shooting at you so you can dig some drainage you can put a better parapet in for a parapet's a sort of

00:23:16.940 low wall in the front end of the trench parados a low wall behind your trench help your protection

00:23:22.140 for later on you can work on dugouts you can you can dig communication trenches back what else can

00:23:28.840 you do you can bury the corpses in no man's land that was a big thing they were doing why do you

00:23:33.680 want to bury corpses in no man's land why wouldn't you the smell but just it's just awful yeah some of

00:23:40.680 them are your comrades and some of them the enemy but they're that just bury the corpses and and this

00:23:46.100 was one of the joint things they did in no man's land these are far more important than some of the

00:23:50.720 things that people fixate on yeah one thing people fixate on is they played soccer some places played

00:23:56.280 soccer did that actually happen well i used to think that it was unlikely what i know there's a

00:24:01.620 chap called taff gillingham who's done much work on this and i respect his work and he has found that

00:24:07.680 there are definitely two kickabouts and when i say kickabouts i mean it's like me and you went in your

00:24:13.160 backyard and kicked the ball about with say four or five other people joining in uh it's not a game

00:24:17.980 it's not got a referee or or jumpers for goalposts or anything like that it is just a kickabout and

00:24:24.520 there does seem some evidence that there were some minor games basically around frellingham and uh well

00:24:31.180 well you don't need to know where they were if you see what i mean but there are a couple of games

00:24:34.840 the norfolk regiment and the cheshire regiment where there's some cheshire troops attached to norfolk's

00:24:39.400 and they certainly seem to have played and there are reports published in the newspapers saying they

00:24:44.120 played a match that's at wolvergham in belgium i mean i say the name but i don't know where it is

00:24:49.060 either and that's corroborated taff gillingham has found corroboration and there's another account

00:24:54.680 as i say at frillingham that's got a couple of german accounts so i think there were a couple of

00:25:00.840 kickabouts but they are not football matches i think it's clear i think i'm what i'm saying is quite clear

00:25:08.320 there no it sounds like you know americans throwing a football around like if you're tossing

00:25:12.380 a yeah exactly like so if you had an american football and and a few of you were just tossing

00:25:17.640 it about probably not a real football probably a you know some something else a sandbag filled with

00:25:23.120 a bit of something that that that's what i think it would be okay and also they took pictures with

00:25:30.000 each other that's why we know this thing actually happened it was just like this made-up thing

00:25:33.120 although there are lots of great people there's famous ones one that one looks exactly like paul

00:25:38.240 mccartney of the beatles it's absolutely spitted image of him it's a famous one of and there's loads

00:25:43.880 of other ones of great pictures of them in no man's end and the there never was any doubt that this

00:25:49.840 happened it it it happened for sure but one thing is it didn't happen everywhere and the the units

00:25:58.740 that have been in most action which are basically the first corps which is under the commander of

00:26:03.140 general sir douglas haig and the second corps under general horace smith dorian there wasn't so much

00:26:08.840 truce making on their front and that's partly because they they'd had a lot more fighting were less

00:26:14.080 less likely they're less trusting and and also perhaps more military more likely to shoot rather

00:26:20.640 than and there are accounts of people who say the germans put up christmas lights and we shot them out

00:26:25.060 that kind of thing so this is not universal along the british lines it is in places and it probably

00:26:30.960 in less places than it's probably the the exception rather than the rule still important though and

00:26:38.380 still an amazing thing yeah and i think i think you made the point well is that okay there was some

00:26:43.320 peace on earth goodwill for men going on here with i mean how can you not have that when you hear

00:26:47.380 germans singing silent night across the trench but there was also the the truce was also served a

00:26:53.640 practical war purpose as well yeah i'd sum it up i'd say i say for the vast and this is as in

00:27:01.720 everything when you sum something up you're going to oversimplify but for the vast majority of those

00:27:06.760 who participated it was a matter of convenience it was actually convenient to them to have a truce

00:27:13.820 it made their lives easier there was a load of slightly maudlin sentiment as well that we all have

00:27:21.280 around christmas i do i'm sure you do it's not even more than it's just sentiment isn't it but i want to

00:27:27.200 make clear it doesn't mark some deep flowering of the human spirit it doesn't it isn't some it's not

00:27:35.040 people rising up against the war it's not anti-war emotions taking root amongst the ranks it enables

00:27:42.720 them to celebrate christmas which matters to everybody well everyone of the christian religion or in the

00:27:48.740 countries that celebrate christmas in a freer and sort of more jovial safer environment and that

00:27:55.280 was after the most awful hell on earth they'd been enduring so it was better it let them satisfy their

00:28:01.320 curiosity about the germans and it let them carry out the vital construction works the trenches and

00:28:06.060 everything i mentioned earlier and it was never going to last it can i can i put it can i compare it

00:28:12.620 to a break in reality not the dawn of a brave new world does that make sense yeah i mean so we're

00:28:18.360 talking about how did the truce end well it it ends gradually yeah and and it ends in some places

00:28:25.420 it's just christmas day and there's there's places where they put a flag up with merry christmas on

00:28:30.560 fired three shots in the air put a you know put a flag another banner up saying thank you the german

00:28:36.340 captain on the other side he did the same both sides saluted each other got down in their trenches

00:28:41.220 and then they start shooting at each other again and that's how it happened in in some places some

00:28:47.320 it ended on boxing day some it took it was more than three four five days there's even reports of

00:28:53.380 it going nearly up to the new year but in that there's many ways it ends in some way i mean what

00:28:59.440 could stop it well i'll tell you what could stop it if the artillery open up now the artillery are behind

00:29:04.940 the lines they're not involved in the truce are they if they open up then bursting shells will soon end

00:29:10.320 the the truce other things that could stop it as you get a changeover of battalions the british

00:29:15.060 change their battalions every well they try and do every three days but this time the war it was not

00:29:19.220 quite so much but if you change over battalions you get new people coming in they might not be quite

00:29:23.580 so keen on a truce they may have had different experiences so that could that could they hadn't

00:29:28.400 shared the moment if you like of christmas and they're coming in say on day after boxing day

00:29:34.580 well they're sort of reverted to type they're not inclined to compromise and and in some cases a

00:29:41.120 malevolent individual would just shoot someone on the other side and that would lead to very bad

00:29:46.760 feelings and a very swift end to the the truce and there were a couple of reported occasions of that

00:29:52.900 that's people who've had their brother killed perhaps and they're just they're just not willing

00:29:57.480 to take part in the truce and so the truce ends i think and this is the key part i want to make this

00:30:03.480 is why i'm saying this isn't a sea-changing attitude most of them went back to war very willingly they

00:30:10.120 would have rejoiced if the war was over but only if they'd won it they stood fast they were alongside

00:30:17.380 their friends their comrades they were willing to accept their orders from their their uh their

00:30:22.460 sergeants their uh their officers they were still willing to kill germans it was never going to lead 0.98

00:30:28.940 to peace on earth right because you had three more years of war well you have and the average british

00:30:35.060 soldiers more than willing to shoot down the the germans uh the moment the truce was over there are no 0.60

00:30:41.260 particular accounts of people having difficulty with that because they were soldiers of course that

00:30:46.840 that was what they were trained to do that none of if you think about it and i don't want to be

00:30:51.760 none of the reasons for the british i'm we'll focus on the british here belgian and a good part of

00:30:58.220 northern france was still occupied the germans were just being as aggressive as before as far as they 0.99

00:31:03.120 were concerned the german and french were in a war of national survival and we were allied to the

00:31:08.540 french the truce really had changed nothing and in the end it means nothing in a permanent thing it has a

00:31:15.440 it's it's a transitory thing and it's an emotional thing and and and it doesn't last long

00:31:21.800 and i think a point you make and other historians have made about this is that you know you think

00:31:26.160 like how can these guys go from killing each other to giving each other gifts and playing soccer with

00:31:30.280 you know kicking the ball and going back to killing each other and i think one point that's made is

00:31:34.000 that you know you got these soldiers on the british side especially they were these are these hard

00:31:38.520 bitten cynical guys for them war was almost kind of a business like it wasn't personal just like that's

00:31:44.480 what i do so i'm supposed to do so i'm gonna do it that they were perfectly willing to shoot down

00:31:49.360 pretty well anyone they were ordered to shoot this is just what soldiers are professional soldiers are

00:31:54.320 i mean two year a year before they'd stood ready to to intervene in northern ireland in ireland

00:31:59.500 professional soldiers are professional soldiers but the professional soldiers are also the sort who if

00:32:05.400 they get the chance to take it easy for a couple of days at christmas they will it's not these two

00:32:10.500 emotions aren't uh aren't they're not contradictory it's very much part of the same character set

00:32:16.140 professional soldier can i take it easy for a bit yep i will can i go and satisfy my curiosity about

00:32:22.480 what the germans are up to i will can i improve my own personal comfort can can i celebrate christmas

00:32:28.420 you know so i get the tin from princess mary princess mary sent a gift tin out uh that's great but

00:32:33.980 even better is to go out to the germans and exchange bits of it for uh for what they've got 0.96

00:32:37.920 it's just it suits and then of course when it's over they just revert to time they go back to

00:32:44.140 shooting go back to killing it it's sad it's not some sort of moral epiphany it's uh it's just war

00:32:50.580 still what did the generals think when they caught word of that this was happening well i didn't like it 0.98

00:32:56.120 but uh i mean they took it quite well there was no particular punishments um as i said a brigadier

00:33:01.360 general was caught up in it they knew what was going on you can't open fire on the germans without 1.00

00:33:06.480 opening fire on yourself and i'm sure the german leaders also thought that vice versa it was just

00:33:12.340 something that happened they made damn sure it never happened again though they they issued warnings

00:33:17.120 in the print in the next few years and generally they'd open fire with the artillery because that's

00:33:21.660 a point i made earlier if the artillery is firing there's going to be no truce and the artillery are

00:33:26.300 a mile and a half behind the lines most of them and is that why the truce never happened again

00:33:30.400 during the war it's my belief there's reports of very small things but i've never gone into that

00:33:36.220 it never really recurred because and and and the war went on sadly went on for another

00:33:42.420 four dreadful years and and they were dreadful years if it had all ended in christmas 1914 i can

00:33:49.000 assure you i'd have been delighted but it didn't and it the reason it didn't was because their nation

00:33:55.480 states were still at war and uh the regular soldiers were still the servants of the nation

00:34:01.700 state well so the christmas truce it remains very alive in popular culture every christmas you hear

00:34:07.820 about it like why why do you think it resonates so much still well it resonates so much partly because

00:34:14.480 people don't know the real story which we've just been talking about it isn't quite as sentimental

00:34:19.880 and lovely as people think is it but it still is a wonderful story it is still to me it shows

00:34:28.260 that even though they reverted to killing each other it just shows that the germans weren't any 0.98

00:34:33.560 different from the british the british weren't any different from the germans when it comes down to

00:34:37.380 individuals when it comes down to people these people didn't have a grudge it was their nation

00:34:41.600 states that had a grudge and they were the servants of the nation state story to repeat that but

00:34:46.420 that's what it is and and but but the actual finding almost friendship about finding a mutual mutual

00:34:55.340 suffering with the other side and and just for a day or two stopping fighting i think it's a wonderful

00:35:02.000 story and although with my severe historian hat on i will pour cold water on some of the more fanciful

00:35:09.340 things so they didn't play football a proper game of football they they it wasn't peace and love the

00:35:14.840 war couldn't have ended then because they they were damn well all in intent on carrying it on so that

00:35:20.080 wasn't going to happen but it is still a sign that there is a basic humanity a shared humanity and an

00:35:27.020 event like christmas did provide a sort of release for human emotions and that's what i would celebrate

00:35:33.320 just like everybody else does so even the cruel hard historian has a soft center when it comes to that

00:35:38.500 kind of thing so i i i too i do podcasts about it i did a tv show about it i've got a chapter in my

00:35:44.620 book about it it's it it is to me it's an important thing yeah it's a very human story it's like that

00:35:50.340 shows how contradictory humans can be it does it does well peter this has been a great conversation

00:35:56.420 where can people go to learn more about your work well i've got a regular podcast it's slightly

00:36:02.020 irreverent but it's called pete and gary it's with a friend of mine called gary bain it's sort of two

00:36:07.320 people as if down the pub talking about military history it's called pete and gary's military history

00:36:12.280 podcast it's available on livinghistorytv.com it's available on all podcast providers we don't have

00:36:18.360 the listenership you do but we're still we're still pleased with what we do and that's out on a

00:36:23.260 on a weekly basis and i wrote a book called fire and movement that's available on oxford

00:36:28.360 university press and fire and movement is the story of the whole 1914 campaign something that i i i found

00:36:35.340 when i was writing it it was just so interesting and so many of the things i thought happened didn't

00:36:40.880 really happen as i'd thought and it was for me it was a learning experience and that's what's best

00:36:45.360 for a historian any historian is when you set about doing something you're paid for it because we're all

00:36:50.860 paid for things but the other thing is that you learn and and it's exciting to write it and that

00:36:56.780 in the way and it overwhelms commercial intent or it certainly does with me well peter hart thanks for

00:37:02.360 time it's been a pleasure cheers my guest today was peter hart he's the author of several books

00:37:07.580 on world war one including the great war a combat history of the first world war it's available on

00:37:12.080 amazon.com and bookstores everywhere make sure to check out our show notes at aom.is slash christmas

00:37:16.440 truce we can find links to resources we delve deeper into this topic

00:37:19.380 well that wraps up another year of the aom podcast we'll be taking next week off from posting new

00:37:31.380 shows to celebrate the holidays as well as catching up on all the back end to do's that go into running

00:37:35.320 the website and business we will be rebroadcasting some classic episodes from the aom archives so make

00:37:40.340 sure to check those out big thanks to my wife kate for editing the podcast she does so much to make

00:37:44.500 sure that each episode is as concise and as sharp as possible besides editing the podcast she writes

00:37:49.600 articles edits articles and does a lot of the back end day-to-day stuff to make sure the business

00:37:53.720 just keeps running also big thanks to creative audio lab in broken air oklahoma they're the sound

00:37:58.540 engineer team that we use to make sure that each episode sounds as good as possible so big thanks

00:38:03.140 to them thanks so much and if you're in need of editing services or sound engineers check them

00:38:06.980 out creative audio lab kate and i wish you a very merry christmas and a happy new year we really

00:38:10.980 appreciate your support thank you for the letters emails sharing the show with friends and family

00:38:15.000 members thank you so much it means a lot i'm looking forward to sharing more great insights with you

00:38:19.040 from some of the world's most interesting people next year in 2022

00:38:22.280 you

The Art of Manliness - December 22, 2021

The Real (Decidedly-Less-Sentimental-Yet-Still-Wonderful) Story of WWI's Christmas Truce

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