The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of Johnny Cash
Episode Stats
Summary
As a man who had grown up dirt poor, Johnny Cash struggled his whole life with addiction. He was thrown in jail seven times, and found himself in the proverbial wilderness during a long stretch of his career. In this episode, we discuss his hardscrabble upbringing on a cotton farm, his unfulfilled desire to please his father, and how his rise into stardom was accompanied by the arrival of personal demons.
Transcript
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brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast johnny cash the
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man in black said he wore all black on behalf of the poor and hungry the old who were neglected
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the prisoner who has long paid for his crime and those betrayed by drugs as a man who had grown up
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dirt poor struggled his whole life with addiction was thrown in jail seven times and found himself
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in the proverbial wilderness during a long stretch of his career johnny had a real heart for those
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kinds of folks he was a man who had lived numerous ups and downs himself marshall terrell co-author of
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the book johnny cash the redemption of american icon will take us through these biographical peaks and
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valleys today we talk about cash's hardscrabble upbringing on a cotton farm his unfulfilled desire
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to please his father and how his rise into stardom was accompanied by the arrival of a set of personal
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demons we also discuss how after becoming the top entertainer in the world cash's career slid into two
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decades of music industry irrelevance the big comeback he made near the end of his life and
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the faith that sustained him through all his struggles and triumphs after the show's over
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marshall taylor welcome back to the show hey thank you for having me great to be back so we had you on
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the show a while back ago to talk about an american icon of cool steve mcqueen the king of cool and
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you've co-authored another book about another icon of cool that's johnny cash and johnny has interesting
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characters he died back in i guess 2003 but like he's still relevant like he's still he's like steve
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mcqueen he's just like man he's cool i've seen 15 year old kids who weren't even born when you know
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johnny cash was alive and they're wearing johnny cash t-shirts have you figured out like what has
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made cash such an intriguing character i mean like what made him cool like steve mcqueen it's an
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interesting question because you know i think there's a element of mystery there i mean we're
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talking about icons from the 60s and the 70s where you know they weren't in your face every day
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so i think that that certainly plays a part in it the other factor is that they were both rebels
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mcqueen certainly more overtly so but cash was kind of like you know a country outlaw in that
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you know nashville kind of had its own establishment and rules and cash always kind of played outside of
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those rules and when he first came on the scene was he rock and roll was he rockabilly was he country
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nobody could really quite put their finger on the guy and so i think that that element of mystery
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is kind of uh it kind of chased him throughout his career so as i read your book johnny cash the
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redemption of an american icon three things stood out to me that you know kind of i think contributed
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to that mystery of johnny cash one you know he had a lifelong addiction battle and we'll talk about
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that and then he also in his career it seems like he was always struggling to stay relevant and he
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wanted to be wanted by his fans and then the other part of this kind of underlying all of it was you
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know his deep abiding faith and we'll talk about that too because i think that also contributed to
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his coolness factor because the way he approached faith it was different than a lot of other people
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and as i read the book it seemed like the origins of a lot of these things it started in cash's
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childhood what was his childhood like and particularly what was his relationship with his parents like
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well his childhood you know when you talk about the the term dirt poor that applies to him and his
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family because they were sharecroppers and so they were always toiling in the dirt and sharecroppers
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the way that that whole system was set up was that they were never ever going to get ahead in life
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they were always going to be uh picking cotton working the fields and so uh you know like i said
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dirt poor is is is the terminology but his childhood you know it was it was sharecropping
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it was church it was uh there was a certain rigidity to his life growing up there was no room for dreaming
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there was no room for you know getting ahead in life so it was always kind of every so everything
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was kind of circled and centered around the church because that was really kind of the only
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relief that they could get that was the only way that they could think of maybe perhaps a better
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life and so you know it was a hard tough life especially for a dreamer like johnny cash and so
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he also had a father ray who was just a very stern prototypical depression era father who you know
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they had kids and they had a lot of kids and that was to help work the farm because um you know those
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workers were is what kept them alive they they had to work hard every day of their lives and that's
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just what his life was like growing up and then of course you add alcohol to the mix and you know his
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father was a big time drinker you know it adds that extra element of misery to it and the other thing
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you talk about in the book is that it always seemed like johnny cash could never get his dad's approval
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like no matter what he did even as a as a boy even when he was like the peak of his career like his
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dad was never impressed never like that's you're you're still nothing that's correct and you know
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you you look there's a straight through line in that with a lot of famous people the first person that
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comes to mind is michael jackson you know you know i did a book on pete maravich the great basketball
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player he was always trying to not impress his father but to seek his approval a lot you know i
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remember just recently seeing the uh elton john movie and i didn't know that you know he was
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trying to seek his father's approval and so i think a lot with a lot of the greats that's the
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driving force and i think if you if you look into uh like with steve mcqueen i mean he never knew his
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father but you know he always wanted to find him and you know basically throw it in his face and say
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look i became uh i became a man i became somebody much better than you could have ever anticipated so i
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think that those are you know that's that see-through line with all the great artists
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well another thing that happened in his childhood that affected him profoundly is he lost a brother
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his brother died in a really tragic accident right and that that was uh not only impactful in his life
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but that devastated the family his brother jack was two years older than johnny and jack was
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i guess it would be tough to call him a saint but the kid never sinned and he had this biblical
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knowledge and this knowledge about life way beyond his years and so everybody had pegged jack as um he
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was going to be the preacher of the family and you know in the deep south that was uh you know that
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was like saying that you were going to become a lawyer and so jack was one of those kids that didn't
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have to be told to do his chores he wasn't a dreamer anything he did was to contribute to the family
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for example the one one of the reasons why he was killed was because he he had an opportunity to go
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fishing with johnny it was like on a saturday or he could go to the high school and go to the shop
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class and and cut up some some metal piping but he'd be making extra money he'd make like an extra
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two dollars and he'd give that to the family and so that's what he opted to do that day and then of
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course he got into a terrible accident where the saw basically penetrated his whole chest and then
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his innards kind of came out and then he was in the hospital for a week and then eventually he passed
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away and so not only was it the devastation of that accident but it was what johnny's dad said to him
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afterwards and that was i wish it were you instead of jack and so that haunted johnny for years
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man i i mean you can you can vicariously experience how awful that made him feel i mean it's just such
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a gut punch to hear that from your own your own father but the thing is you know johnny he kept
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trying to get his dad's approval he never stopped trying to win his approval there was another story
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you recount this was later on his life when he was famous he invites his parents over and he invites
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billy graham over and his wife for dinner billy graham he was a big deal when he was at the height
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of his his career and after dinner johnny goes over his dad and says dad what do you think about that
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billy graham that's pretty awesome huh and his dad just tells him you still ain't nothing boy
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i mean he still his dad never thought much of him still couldn't couldn't please him but what about
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his mom what was johnny cash's relationship like with his mother his relationship with his mother
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was wonderful you know his her name was carrie she was a very sweet and and loving woman complete
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opposite of his father and i don't mean to paint the father as this black villain you know the guy that
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wears the black cowboy hat because he was just he was a guy that you know didn't have a whole lot of
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education and had a big family and had to take care of them and you know he was just a man of his
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time the mother was a deeply religious very sweet and she always told john jr is what he was called
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this kid that he had this gift and so she she was the encouraging one so she was she was the yin to
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the father yang and you know always told him god has a purpose for you and god has a purpose for your
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life and so john jr took that to heart so you know those were the the two extremes you know that he had
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growing up and of course that began to manifest itself into adulthood when did he start taking
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up singing he started writing a little bit dabbling after jack's accident the writing started coming
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through about a year or two after that and then started singing maybe a couple years after his
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accident and then of course when he was in high school that's when he was really he was just kind
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of known as quote unquote the the singer he was he was good he was the entertainer in high school
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and um so that was kind of what his personality was like but he you know he he had no ambition for it
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any anything beyond that he talked about his greatest ambition one day was that he would be heard one day
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on the radio it wasn't anything beyond that and then like when did he decide to like make a go out of
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being a musician it's like he played you know some kind of shows in high school but when did he was
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like i'm going to try to make this like a profession when did that happen well i think that was after
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he was married when he came back from his military service and you know he he worked for this guy uh
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that you know he he sold appliances uh door to door can you imagine doing that these days
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and uh he just hated that and and um the guy that he worked for knew john was a good guy and you know
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just kept fronting him this money advancing him money even though he was a terrible salesman and then of
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course when when john made it big he paid that guy back everything that he owed him which floored
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the guy but to answer your question you know when he came back from the army and uh started selling
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appliances but he was also writing songs and singing songs and of course you know he lived in memphis which
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was uh home the sun records and that's when he started pitching sam phillips and so again it's not
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not a great ambition more than a burning desire to to kind of get out of this life of selling
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appliances door to door and then of course when he learned that he could do that full time well then
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he was he was full on for it what was the state of music at the time so this is like early 50s this
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is kind of before rock and roll was a thing this is before elvis this is before jerry lee in fact all
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these guys were at sun records so how would you describe what like what was what was in the air
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what was percolating and like how did that actually how did that contribute to johnny cash kind of
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emerging as a as a big star during this time well if you've heard the term this was rock's big bang
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this is when everything was starting to formulate you know like the you know with the heavens and the
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earth you know in the rock and roll universe it was it was rock's big bang so all these guys were
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coming on the scene at the same time in the same place in the same city you know you you had johnny
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cash you had elvis presley you had jerry lee lewis you had carl perkins and to some degree later on
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roy orbison and all these guys were coming to this place called sun records and so it was a mix of
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rock country and it's what they call rockabilly and so this was all you know 1954
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54 55 56 when all this was happening you know you you look back later on and you go wow this is just
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how does something like this happen you know in the in the 90s you had seattle happening you know in
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the 60s you had motown but this was kind of like the first post-war where things were happening at the
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same time in the same city and so it just it happened to be memphis and it happened to be these four or five
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people and so that's how it all started but but cash is part of that yeah and how did johnny cash
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see himself because okay you know elvis and jerry lee those guys went on to be like we're rock and
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roll stars that's what we do did he did johnny cash put himself in a genre no he didn't and he never
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wanted to be put into a genre i don't necessarily think he saw himself as country but i don't necessarily
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think that he saw himself as uh rock and roll either and and i i you know i've read a lot of his early
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interviews at the time and he i don't think he wanted to be defined and so i and i think his
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early music certainly is beyond categorization other than maybe it was rockabilly yeah and what
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do you think is what was his big hit like what was the thing that really caused him to break out
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well he had a couple of the regional songs but of course walk the line was was his big big breakout hit
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and that was in 56 because elvis happened and so when elvis happened then that that's what really
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kind of inspired cash and then those two actually ended up on the same bill at a lot of shows
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and but i walked the line was the one that became uh the household hit and it was a crossover hit so
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cash that's when he became really the the household name the ironic part was i walked the line was uh
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you know a song written for his his first wife and she was bringing up the fact that you know that
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you know now that you're becoming popular i see all these screaming girls these shows and so he wrote
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he wrote this song i walked the line i walked the line for you you know and ironically later on
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you know that wasn't the case yeah we'll talk a bit about that what happened but you know his after
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walk the line his career just shot off like a rocket and he was touring all the time and just
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in recording and it was really demanding it was wearing him out and to keep up with the demands he
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started using amphetamines right when did this start well this started i want to say late 50s early 60s
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and this happened because you know rock and roll back then it was pretty primitive i mean
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think about this we didn't really even have a highway system at that time so when these guys were
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doing their one-nighters they were taking these you know roads didn't necessarily freeway they were
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taking you know county country highways to get to the gigs and sometimes they were driving five
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six hundred miles a night if you can imagine that without a freeway and so uh they needed a little
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help staying up because this was uh they were driving four and five to a car they had the they had the
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instruments in the trunk and you know this was this was their life i mean they loved it but you
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know even though they were young it's they they still they were on the road you know hours and hours
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at a time because when they finished their half hour gig then they were on to the next one so these were
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you know these these these pills were were a way to help them stay up on the road and then of course
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it developed into a full-time habit and how did the drug use change them did it change them any
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in the beginning oh it absolutely did you know it puts you on edge you know you stay up 24 hours a
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day then you know then you crash and so you know and then it's like any addiction the addiction kind
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of takes over and and you are no longer yourself you're you're a slave to the drug and so um it
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changed his personality in that way for sure i mean he became a little bit more selfish
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didn't eat got skinnier i mean at one point in time i think he got down to like 160 70 pounds
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you know this was a guy that was like six foot two and a big big size guy and it was also breaking
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down his health which uh of course almost took his life later on well and it seemed early on he could
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he did a pretty good job of hiding the addiction but then there's he had these moments where it act
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like his it started affecting his family and actually his musical performance were there
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anything that stood out to you was like yeah this is when people finally realized yet this john johnny's
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got a problem well one stands out i kind of remember the story about it would have been like jack's
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21st birthday and john had his brand new house no furniture in there yet and he got the whole family
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together and he set a place you know for jack i think you know the insinuation being that jack
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was going to come to dinner that night so um and then of course uh he was acting very strange and
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bizarre around his family you know usually when you're on drugs mom and dad's the last person that
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you want to you know that you're gonna i mean you want to try to hide it from mom and dad you know
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those are the last people that you want to know but it all came out kind of that weekend i think
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and then of course that's they they not only said he had a problem but they said
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our son ain't gonna be around much longer the other thing that was interesting about his addiction is
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that he had would have these come to jesus moments where he'd be like okay i got a problem i'm gonna
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commit to doing better but then he would backslide and this is i mean it happened i guess throughout all
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of his life for i mean even after into the 70s and 80s he still was addicted to pills yeah he was and
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that was kind of the most frustrating part writing about his life he knew better had people around
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him had everything going for him and then you know he would he would get him you know he would get to
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the point where he got so bad and addicted again that you you and then of course you know he'd fall
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back on his knees and pray and you know after a while you go man this is getting old but you know
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you have to you just have to say well this is a person with an addiction and um you know yeah you
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you can't you you can't put any sort of normalcy on on a person with an addiction they're going to do
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what they're going to do and they're they're slave to it and and you know given the recovery rates are
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what 96 97 percent chance that they're not going to recover i mean it's a miracle that he stayed alive
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as long as he did we're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors
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and now back to the show so you mentioned he started his music career after his first marriage
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what was his first marriage like and what was family life life like for him early on well you know
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his first wife vivian was a real sweetheart and that and that was kind of you know he he recognized
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later on in life that uh you know he he pretty much gave her a raw deal in that they met i think
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they met uh the week before he was going to go away to germany and they they were just young lovers in
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the 50s where they meet and they had this wonderful time they're rowers skating they're they're they're
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having dinner they're they're doing all these wonderful things he goes away and they promise to
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write each other every day and they do and they write each other every day while he's away because i think
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she had a collection of like close to like 10 000 letters if i'm not mistaken but but then when he
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gets back uh and they get married you know the reality is something completely different and then
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of course when he fell in love with june carter it completely changed that dynamic and so uh but the
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sad part was is that you know he had a children with vivian so you know he had that's what also fed into
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the the addiction was that he had this wife and these young kids and uh you know he was going to
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end up believing them because he was in love with with june carter yeah so let's talk about that how did
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he meet june carter and like what happened to walk the line well she was on the road with him she was
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one of the acts that got hired on the road and you know that's how they they got involved the movie
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is is really not reality the movie i walked the line because the you know i think the movie tries to
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portray that they didn't get involved until after she was divorced and that you know that wasn't the
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case but after they got married i mean it seemed like it was that was that was it it was like a
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lifelong relationship with them yes it was and and and there's no mistaken that that the two were in
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love and i really think that june carter was the love of his life but it just but it just so happened
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that unfortunately you know he got married to vivian realized that she wasn't the love of his life
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and then you know of course had they had children and then and then later on he had this whole other
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life with with june carter and you said that at the end of his life you know johnny cash kind of
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recognized that he gave vivian the raw deal i mean at the time like how did he reconcile it did we have
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any ideas like well i i know that they became friendly at the end of their lives because she actually
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came to pay him a visit to ask permission to write her book and he said a if anybody deserves to write
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you for putting up with me and so he was good in that way because he didn't he didn't recognize
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that but during their lifetime i should say right up to that point where he did see her regarding the
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book i'm not so sure that they had reconciled anything it was just john left and now he's gone
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and she had a really hard time as a matter of fact you know she was losing a lot of weight and
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she finally had to see a doctor and you know the doctor said you need to do something because what
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you're doing you know what you're doing now is going to put you in the grave because and you've
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got four young children and the the woman that took away your husband is going to be raising your
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children if you don't do something about it so that's when vivian said oh okay i need to now move
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on with my life and do something else so she did get she got remarried and you know had a very
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happy marriage to him but johnny was the one you know that just cast that long shadow over her life
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all right so throughout the 60s this is like when johnny cash's career started taking off
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he was i mean how how popular was he during the 1960s oh at one point there was a golden period from
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1968 where he did folsom prison to then the following year he had the tv show and the tv show
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ran from 69 to 71 1969 he outsold the beatles outsold the rolling stones so can you imagine somebody today
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with a very popular tv show who could actually go out and tour and then put out all these number
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one records i mean i can't think of anybody today that could do that but that was really his golden
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period in in the in the late 60s believe it or not so he had a fan base of people who already knew him
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and they also had a younger fan base and these were the rock and roll kids because when he had his
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television show from 69 to 71 the show was based out of nashville but he was the first country guy to
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invite other rockers on his show so he had dylan on his show credence clearwater revival uh you know he
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had a lot of rock and roll x so on his show you'd see rock gospel country you'd even get some old jazz
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artists or some old r&b artists so johnny was just a big fan of music and so he again it goes back to
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he didn't want to be defined but he also didn't want to define what acts would be on his show he
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just wanted to introduce good rock music so at that point in time that's when he created the man in
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black persona and the only people that the rockers really kind of respected in country was johnny cash
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and you know he also had the respect of people from the previous decade and he also had the respect of
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country so you know at that one point in time johnny cash was the number one entertainer in
00:25:07.140
the world but during this time he's still battling addiction correct up to folsom folsom
00:25:13.060
was kind of his big comeback and kind of like his his big sobriety and then so was the television
00:25:18.560
show and then he became he rededicated himself to his faith because of all the good things that were
00:25:24.600
happening to him he didn't really fall back into addiction again until like the late 70s so there
00:25:29.560
was a period there of like a decade where he didn't have any issues with addiction
00:25:34.600
so he had this high point 68 through 71 but then in the 70s his career started to take a slide
00:25:41.860
what do you think happened there well i think that happens with every career it's what i call the
00:25:47.200
mid-career slump you know all of a sudden you're um you know you're you're no longer i guess relevant
00:25:54.280
would be the term but you know music is a young person's game and you know you can't you can't be a
00:26:00.300
rock star forever i mean the stones and paul mccartney yes they're they're they're rock stars
00:26:05.740
but let's be honest the last time they had a hit were in the 80s so that's that's four decades ago
00:26:11.120
so so what happens is you then then you start you know after a while then you start living on your
00:26:16.860
legend and so cash wasn't quite there yet so he what he had become was a irrelevant artist by uh 1972
00:26:25.980
73 and then you know that lasted for two decades he really couldn't catch you know his his momentum
00:26:32.700
again until the 90s no it was so bad you described uh i felt really bad for him like he got dumped by
00:26:38.860
i think it was columbia and then he had to basically audition like like he's just starting out to even
00:26:45.680
get a record deal it was it was not only not only that but he had these young punks who kept him
00:26:51.360
waiting you know in in the waiting room and or would just blow him off all together it was really
00:26:56.720
painful to hear those things because you know he certainly didn't deserve that he had one guy
00:27:02.000
that he you know he went up through the ranks with and and he just said man i can't believe johnny
00:27:06.720
cash is auditioning for me and you know cash did it and still the guy wouldn't give him a record deal
00:27:12.320
so um with the money guys it's always you know okay i'll give you a record deal but it's not gonna be
00:27:18.700
the same money that you used to make you know unless you sell records so that's kind of where
00:27:23.760
cash was in the 70s and the 80s yeah you had this great line you described him as he was respected
00:27:28.940
but not relevant that's like the worst place for a musician to be or an artist to be yeah you know
00:27:33.780
and i you know you can say that about a lot of artists today a lot of a lot of legacy artists you
00:27:38.240
can say that about relevance really is only with the younger audience and they decide who's relevant
00:27:43.880
and why the reasons why they're relevant is is beyond me but everybody gets there and how did
00:27:49.880
he handle this low period in his career i don't think he handled it very well you know he had to
00:27:54.580
go to branson which you know for a country artist you know that was just kind of that was like the
00:27:59.860
signaling of okay my career's over and i'm gonna catch what little fame there is to catch by going to
00:28:06.900
branson and so he didn't want to do that but that's kind of just where he was at that time
00:28:12.940
so yeah i mean it it got as low as you could get there were some times when you know then then the
00:28:20.400
money stopped coming in and he and june had to at times pawn some jewelry to pay pay their staff
00:28:25.860
because what happens is that you develop this certain lifestyle you know you've got a recording studio
00:28:30.580
you got homes you got vacation homes you've got staff and you know i've written about elvis presley
00:28:36.420
i just finished a book on him right now and so he fell into that same trap as well elvis you would
00:28:41.900
think had a whole lot of money but he didn't have a whole lot of money at the end of his career
00:28:45.800
and so you know they developed this lifestyle and so when the hits stop coming and the money stops
00:28:51.680
rolling in you know what do you do and you also talk about i mean he even got kind of desperate
00:28:55.900
there's one point where he wrote this kind of novelty song it was like the the chicken
00:29:00.440
and black and like he dressed himself up like as like this kind of weird bank robber and all of
00:29:06.580
his friends were just like johnny what are you doing this is this is so beneath you but i think
00:29:11.420
he wanted like he was trying to stay relevant uh again trying to get another hit well and somebody
00:29:17.500
a historian named mark steelper who was very helpful to me on the book pointed out that you know
00:29:22.460
johnny had a history of doing some novelty hits i mean a boy named sue was a was a novelty hit
00:29:28.240
that turned out well one piece at a time one piece at a time was another one so you know johnny felt
00:29:34.280
like that it was probably time to do another one and it just so happened that chicken and black was
00:29:38.780
just so bad that it pretty much ended up just trashing his career okay so yeah he goes to branson he
00:29:45.480
wanted to create basically he was trying to create like another dolly wood but it'd be like johnny cash
00:29:50.000
land and that ended up he didn't it just sort of a dead end then in the early 90s starting the early
00:29:59.200
90s there was this johnny cash revival so what happened that allowed johnny cash to have one of
00:30:06.900
the greatest i would say it's one of the greatest second acts in music history like what happened
00:30:11.120
oh i i agree with you i think it could be perhaps the greatest comeback greatest second act of all time
00:30:18.140
well it started with u2 and in the 80s i think the u2 a couple of members of the u2 were driving
00:30:24.580
through through the country and they they were driving through nashville and they wanted to meet
00:30:28.440
johnny cash because they they saw him as this legendary figure and bono especially connected
00:30:33.940
very well with cash and they just you know they just had a nice meal and cash prayed and bono was
00:30:41.040
really taken by that and so he never forgot it so a few years later they were recording the
00:30:48.020
they had recorded a song that they felt was right for cash and so um i think it was on the zuropa album
00:30:55.280
and so they not only did the song but then they did this um video and the the song and the video were
00:31:03.100
amazing can you imagine youtube backing you on a track and the song came out great and then it was it
00:31:10.640
was placed on this album as a mystery track and then they did a video for it and then it showed
00:31:15.580
cash in his heyday and so that was the start of it and then rick rubin then sees him playing live and
00:31:25.100
then rick rubin was the hot producer of the day and decided that he wanted to produce cash and so
00:31:31.300
he did and that that that pairing was called american recordings and so they made i think three or four
00:31:39.800
of those albums and so but rick rubin was kind of a very successful hip-hop producer and produced you
00:31:47.500
know a lot of things that were relevant so so you've got you two and then you've got rick rubin who
00:31:52.360
present this guy again and say hey this guy's really cool this is the guy that started it all
00:31:57.520
and then that's when all the young people then decided okay well let's let's explore who this guy is
00:32:03.560
so that's where cash had his big second uh comeback and then those rick rubin albums a lot
00:32:09.520
of them were like a lot of songs he recorded they were they were cover songs of from other artists
00:32:15.540
like tom petty nine inch nails but what was interesting is that cash was able to make it his
00:32:21.160
own with his own unique take on it yeah and it was just cash in a guitar sometimes and it was this
00:32:27.660
haunting voice and yeah i mean this was a generation x that really connected with them they just they
00:32:34.600
connected with a man in the black the man you know in the black jacket the man that had survived all
00:32:42.140
this and is still singing and so he was again he was he was relevant again and and that's really
00:32:49.060
tough to do you know when you're in your 60s so this went throughout his 60s and like he died
00:32:54.880
when he was 71 right right yeah yeah that last set there's some really good songs something like
00:33:01.260
the hurt video like i always cry when i watch that hurt video it is so because like because you know
00:33:07.360
like what's like you can tell it's he's talking about his own addiction and his own struggles
00:33:10.980
and you see you know the johnny cash land uh just sort of kind of empty and broken and it's really
00:33:19.440
poignant it really does i get teared up every time i watch it oh and it's pure artistry
00:33:24.820
because he put himself out there you know everybody always tries to put their best foot forward
00:33:29.620
but but cash was like no this is who i am this is my life now and yeah there was something really
00:33:35.020
really uh strong about it and um it you know it connected with that mtv crowd all throughout his
00:33:42.260
ups and downs of his life was his faith but it was how would you describe it because i think it's
00:33:47.520
it's hard to describe he's not like a your stereotypical ned flanders churchy christian guy
00:33:53.700
yeah but he was deeply religious i mean how would you describe it well he had this great wisdom about
00:34:00.400
him and he studied the bible and when i say studied i'm not talking about like a home study
00:34:05.760
i mean he he was an ordained minister and he actually got a degree and we i actually interviewed
00:34:12.020
the gentleman who gave him the degree and he said the assignments that he turned in were the most
00:34:19.040
profound and the deepest that he had ever seen in his career and he'd been doing it for 50 60 70 years
00:34:27.320
so i mean that that kind of just shows you where cash was cash also came from a long line of preachers
00:34:33.120
so this was in his blood and this is what he wanted again for me the frustrating part was and i'm not one
00:34:39.140
to judge but it was like okay so you know these things you have this great wisdom and yet you
00:34:44.180
couldn't stop yourself when the time came so um there was always this falling down dusting himself
00:34:52.220
off and getting back up again and you know and that happened throughout his whole life so it was just
00:34:58.720
it's just interesting and and you know wanting to get baptized again and and going to israel and
00:35:05.460
walking the streets and knowing not only knowing the knowledge but knowing where these places were and
00:35:10.520
seeing these places firsthand and making a film about jesus and and putting all his money up to
00:35:17.900
make the film so i mean it was it was a real faith yeah we also wrote a book about paul the apostle
00:35:24.160
right that's right it was it was it was a fictional account but that yeah so he was he was successful on
00:35:30.240
many levels as an artist i mean uh you know he was a great songwriter singer could act in television and
00:35:37.120
movies and then he wrote a fictional book i mean the guy was just incredible and the way you describe
00:35:42.960
it too is that he was deeply religious and he wasn't afraid to share it his faith and but the way
00:35:49.380
you describe when you interview you know some of the people he ran with in the his heyday some of these
00:35:55.420
guys they didn't believe in god they weren't religious and they described like even when cash got
00:36:00.660
religious with us it didn't feel like put upon it just felt like the most natural thing in the world
00:36:04.740
right and it didn't exactly so as a consequence it wasn't off-putting they're just like okay this is
00:36:09.260
important to johnny and i'm gonna respect that well and the best story of that comes from the actor
00:36:15.400
john schneider he did a tv movie with with john and he actually lived with cash and his wife june for a
00:36:23.100
couple months and they'd go fishing together they they do a lot of things together cash never talked
00:36:28.720
about religion to him but he had a bible in the trunk of his car they go fishing then the giants say well
00:36:34.580
time for me to go and study my bible and through that example i mean john schneider was said you
00:36:42.280
know if a man's man like johnny cash has to go every day and study the bible and crack it open
00:36:48.340
there's got to be something to it and so he influenced people in that way what is what's your
00:36:54.440
takeaway from johnny cash do you think there's anything we can learn about living from his life
00:36:59.120
well i mean again he was a man of contradictions and the men the the people of contradictions are
00:37:04.740
always the most interesting to write about it's also frustrating in a way but that's you know that's
00:37:10.240
the thing about artists is that they uh you you know artists are artists and you can't uh they don't live
00:37:16.840
neat clean lives they live messy lives but in the case of cash he always knew where to go back to and
00:37:25.300
that was he he drew upon his faith that was kind of like his his center and his home so that's that's
00:37:31.380
what he would always go back to and that's that's where he was at the end of his life and i think the
00:37:36.160
takeaway for me is like don't ever give up and i mean that's the thing i got from johnny cash like
00:37:40.300
he was relentless like he just kept trying and trying and i'm sure there's people who are listening
00:37:44.420
who have struggled with their addiction or know someone that has an addiction and you feel you just
00:37:48.680
want to feel like you want to give up but i think there's something from johnny cash we can learn that
00:37:52.240
you just got to keep trying man you got to get back on the the saddle and get going again well
00:37:57.760
and that certainly speaks to not only his personal life but his professional life i mean he knew he
00:38:03.380
knew his fame had been slipping away and he knew that his relevance was slipping away for two whole
00:38:08.420
decades he clawed and clawed and clawed and finally he got back there again before he passed and so that
00:38:14.600
was kind of the beautiful thing to witness is that uh you know he wanted that one last turn in the sun
00:38:21.540
and he got it well marshall this has been a great conversation is there some place people can go to
00:38:25.700
learn more about the book i think the best way just to go to amazon and buy a copy of johnny cash the
00:38:31.620
redemption of american icon and then a documentary is going to be based on this book we don't have a
00:38:37.800
title for it yet it wraps the end of this month and they should probably be looking for it sometime in
00:38:43.460
the fall of 2022 fantastic well marshall terrell thanks for your time it's been a pleasure thank you so
00:38:49.620
much well my guest today was marshall terrell he's the co-author of the book johnny cash the
00:38:54.100
redemption of american icon it's available on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere you can
00:38:57.800
find more information about his book at our show notes at aom.is slash cash we find links to resources
00:39:02.700
we delve deeper into this topic well that wraps up another edition of the aom podcast make sure to
00:39:14.320
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