The Auron MacIntyre Show - 1876： America's Most Disputed Election ｜ Guest： Ryan Turnipseed

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00:00:30.240 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.900 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.240 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.820 So, a lot of people, they look at the 2020 election, all the shenanigans, all the fortification,

00:00:44.320 all the controversy, or maybe they look back at the first election.

00:00:48.080 I really remember, you know, kind of getting into my political consciousness,

00:00:52.240 the 2000 election between Bush and Gore, and the controversy of the hanging chads and things,

00:00:57.920 and they think, these are unique events.

00:00:59.640 You know, this is the rare time where these elections are contested, and people don't know

00:01:03.840 what's going to happen.

00:01:05.160 But actually, it turns out there's a long history of, let's say, disputed elections in

00:01:10.620 the United States, some of which are far more disputed than even, let's say, those of 2020.

00:01:17.360 And so, I wanted to go ahead and talk about what might be the most disputed election in

00:01:22.100 American history, which is the election of 1876.

00:01:25.720 And joining me to do so is Mr. Ryan Turnipseed.

00:01:29.160 He is a YouTuber with an excellent channel.

00:01:31.380 And don't be deceived, despite his youthful appearance, he has an excellent knowledge for

00:01:35.900 all kinds of forgotten American history.

00:01:37.880 And it is incredibly helpful when we go over these kind of topics.

00:01:41.540 Ryan, thank you for joining me.

00:01:42.580 Yeah, thank you very much for having me on.

00:01:44.880 It's good to be back, especially after the last stream that I did with you, which was

00:01:48.100 an absolute blast.

00:01:50.560 Absolutely.

00:01:51.020 Yeah, no, we always have a great time.

00:01:52.200 I like to mix it up.

00:01:53.040 You know, we get the political theory.

00:01:54.660 We get the day-to-day stuff.

00:01:55.760 But it's great to go back and get these historical podcasts, because it's all these times in

00:02:00.900 America that people just have no clue about.

00:02:02.640 They never get talked about in history classes.

00:02:04.440 They never really get addressed.

00:02:05.800 Or if they do, there's just a blurb in a book somewhere, Wikipedia.

00:02:08.720 They never really get kind of the full explanation.

00:02:11.360 And they can give us much more context for kind of what is happening in America today.

00:02:16.920 So we're going to get into the controversy, the civil war, everything leading up to the

00:02:22.720 election itself, and then the compromise that kind of ends the disputed election.

00:02:27.820 But before we do all that, guys, let's hear from today's sponsor.

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00:02:48.860 job, his crime, praying in public after games.

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00:03:40.520 All right, so let's dive into the original freest and fairest election in American history,

00:03:47.560 the election of 1876.

00:03:50.340 So Ryan, to set the stage here, obviously we are post-Civil War.

00:03:54.440 We're only 10 years removed from the Civil War.

00:03:58.280 Lincoln is assassinated.

00:03:59.780 This throws kind of the post-1865 political world into disarray.

00:04:06.360 They're not sure what's going to happen.

00:04:07.960 You've obviously got his vice president who takes over, but after Johnson, you know, kind of takes over,

00:04:14.100 Grant is going to follow.

00:04:15.880 And it really, no one is sure how this kind of reconstruction is going to work.

00:04:21.300 There are many who were advocates of kind of bringing the South right in after and trying to make sure that they felt integrated back in the country.

00:04:29.800 But there are others that wanted to punish the South very thoroughly for trying to leave the Union.

00:04:36.340 What kind of state are we in leading up to the election of 1876?

00:04:41.140 Yeah, so specifically since we're talking about the election, we can deal with the country in just a very general overview.

00:04:49.160 If you want to know more, you can go out and find it in Troves.

00:04:52.800 So the South has been basically impoverished.

00:04:55.720 It had a war that it lost very badly, and it had a reconstruction regime,

00:04:59.940 which was not conducive to actually making a prosperous society.

00:05:05.480 So one of the examples is that immediately after the war ended and the South was occupied,

00:05:10.600 it was the Southern states were divided into different reconstruction zones.

00:05:15.080 So Texas and Louisiana was one zone, Virginia was its own.

00:05:18.280 If I remember correctly, I think the Carolinas, you can go and look at the maps yourselves.

00:05:23.700 And in these reconstruction zones, they were ran by various military governors,

00:05:27.500 and they ruled very strictly and almost in a central planning-like manner.

00:05:32.840 Central planning, as most people know, is not conducive to making sure that people get what they need at the correct times.

00:05:39.300 So there were quite a few famines early on in the South as this reconstruction measures were implemented.

00:05:45.460 There was a lot of land redistribution as well.

00:05:47.980 Anyone that is familiar with land reform, land redistribution throughout history,

00:05:52.160 it typically decreases agricultural efficiency.

00:05:56.000 It turns out there's a reason that land tends to consolidate in these more successful farmers,

00:06:00.560 and it's because they do better than the ones that didn't win in the sort of agricultural market game.

00:06:07.200 So when the union starts dividing up former plantations and large land holdings to various people in the South,

00:06:14.240 blacks, poorer whites, whoever else, carpetbaggers,

00:06:17.440 these people hadn't ran a farm before, leading to more famine, a much greater scarcity of food.

00:06:23.920 And this is all coupled with the fact that, as you mentioned, Lincoln had been shot.

00:06:30.500 Lincoln would have been considered a moderate by his party's standards, if you can believe that.

00:06:34.900 There are people in the South that absolutely hate him.

00:06:37.440 He was not in favor of necessarily punishing most of the southern states.

00:06:41.460 In fact, Thomas DiLorenzo makes a great point that he was mostly in it to make sure that the government didn't lose,

00:06:48.580 one, its power projection, and two, didn't lose its tax revenue.

00:06:53.100 Two major reasons other than slavery and perhaps even greater to Lincoln.

00:06:57.500 So when this war has ended, he doesn't really have a personal incentive or a want to punish them.

00:07:02.540 The radicals, which were in complete control of Congress at this point in time,

00:07:06.380 they wanted as harsh a destruction of the South as possible.

00:07:11.600 This would be Thaddeus Stevens, quite a famous congressman, radical Republican leader,

00:07:16.760 and then there are a few others you can go and look at yourselves.

00:07:20.340 They are the reason that it took so long for some of the southern states to get readmitted.

00:07:24.280 They are also going to be pushing very unpopular crime legislation in,

00:07:28.340 basically allowing the federal government to police southern states,

00:07:31.420 using the army under the guise of cracking down upon paramilitary organizations.

00:07:36.380 The Klan, obviously, is one of the more famous ones, but there were others

00:07:39.420 that actually took over state governments.

00:07:41.760 The Red Shirts in South Carolina eventually would do that.

00:07:44.640 Very general overview, the South isn't doing well, the railroads are destroyed,

00:07:49.800 you're having famines every now and then.

00:07:51.840 Eventually they get readmitted, and they have a civil rights regime,

00:07:56.720 which this is not sort of like a right-wing diction redefining what it was.

00:08:01.200 The federal government was enforcing civil rights,

00:08:04.080 the first wave of civil rights in American history,

00:08:07.080 onto the South to make sure that African-American men could vote.

00:08:10.700 So you start seeing the first Republicans elected in states like Georgia.

00:08:14.340 I think South Carolina might have had a couple, Mississippi.

00:08:17.740 Very sort of party-line Republicans for the time,

00:08:21.260 which meant that they were typically protectionists, some of them were free traders.

00:08:25.060 Very pro-civil rights, pro-federal involvement in the South, pro-carpetbagger.

00:08:30.100 This is your sort of political coalition developing.

00:08:32.580 Not popular at all.

00:08:33.840 No one in the South is happy.

00:08:34.920 So before we go too far, I think as Southerners,

00:08:37.800 we might be more familiar with the phrase carpetbagger than most.

00:08:41.440 Could you talk about that aspect of Reconstruction?

00:08:44.500 Like you said, we're in these federal zones for Reconstruction.

00:08:48.980 The Northern government has occupied the South.

00:08:51.340 They've taken over.

00:08:52.640 They are basically in charge of all of the governments.

00:08:56.140 What are these carpetbaggers?

00:08:58.100 What's their function in the South?

00:08:59.960 Right, okay.

00:09:00.400 So you have two main groups of Republican support in the South.

00:09:03.660 You have what was called carpetbaggers.

00:09:06.220 And these were people from the North that had moved to the South after the war.

00:09:11.420 And the stereotype was, and this usually bears out, pretty accurate stereotype,

00:09:16.140 the South had a lot cheaper prices.

00:09:18.560 There was a need for things to be produced like food, shelter, railroads, and everything else.

00:09:23.160 So there was a great profit opportunity.

00:09:25.160 People from the North would go to these Southern states,

00:09:27.460 and they bring with them their Northern values,

00:09:30.000 be it Northern Democrat or Northern Republican.

00:09:31.900 For those that don't know, and this didn't get fixed with the Civil War,

00:09:35.940 both major parties, Democrat and the younger Republican Party,

00:09:39.320 were divided along geographical lines or cultural lines.

00:09:42.800 So these Northerners have their own political philosophy,

00:09:45.860 their own political systems and opinions,

00:09:47.760 very analogous to Californians moving to Texas today

00:09:50.360 because they see a better profit opportunity or living potential there,

00:09:53.420 and they bring with them their values.

00:09:54.860 This is what the Northern carpetbaggers, as they were termed, did in the South.

00:09:59.820 Scalawags was the other group, another pejorative.

00:10:02.940 Most people probably don't know what it is,

00:10:04.440 so you probably won't get punched on the street for saying it,

00:10:08.040 but most people probably look at you funny.

00:10:10.340 These were people that were native to the South

00:10:12.500 that had joined the Republicans for one reason or another.

00:10:14.980 They were sort of turncoats.

00:10:16.500 Scalawags, traitors,

00:10:17.940 was the typical pejoratives that they would get.

00:10:20.060 These two groups, combined with some extreme pragmatics

00:10:24.680 in the old Democratic Party that was there,

00:10:27.600 combined with African Americans, the new voting bloc,

00:10:30.060 formed the Republican stranglehold over a few Southern states.

00:10:34.340 That's how it got senators, representatives, governors,

00:10:36.980 and this would be self-reinforcing.

00:10:39.200 They would point their own friends into power,

00:10:41.100 strengthen civil rights,

00:10:42.580 get more people out to the polls that supported them,

00:10:45.100 suppress the Democratic Southerners under the guise

00:10:49.900 of voting protection.

00:10:51.660 Typically, the claim was that they were suppressing votes

00:10:54.000 in the South, and I'm not, once again,

00:10:56.560 not trying to take modern stuff

00:10:58.480 and re-implant it back on the history.

00:11:00.480 This is literally their rhetoric.

00:11:02.600 They would say these evil white Southerners races,

00:11:05.140 typically, are prohibiting voting in the South,

00:11:09.040 and therefore the federal government needs to intervene

00:11:11.140 to help the poor people down there

00:11:14.120 that just want to express their opinions.

00:11:15.920 It turns out the poor people down there

00:11:17.480 that want to express their opinions

00:11:18.800 tended to be predominantly Republican.

00:11:21.800 So nothing's popular in the South

00:11:25.100 for what the federal government's doing.

00:11:26.680 And as you mentioned at the beginning,

00:11:28.320 we had a succession of presidents.

00:11:30.120 Lincoln was shot.

00:11:30.760 Johnson, who was actually a Tennessean,

00:11:33.680 a Democrat, once upon a time,

00:11:36.560 he had joined Lincoln in what was called,

00:11:38.580 I believe, the National Union ticket,

00:11:41.100 sort of like a coalition ticket in the North.

00:11:42.960 It meant it was a show, basically.

00:11:46.940 There wasn't any actual coalescing

00:11:48.960 of Northern Democrats and Republicans

00:11:50.380 and any meaningful standard,

00:11:51.840 just that they all supported the North

00:11:54.040 or were ambivalent towards the war.

00:11:56.760 And Johnson was very unpopular with Congress,

00:12:00.520 which is why he's the first president

00:12:02.000 to have impeachment forwarded against him formally,

00:12:06.000 the first president to do that.

00:12:07.300 And it was because he had removed someone

00:12:10.000 in his own cabinet

00:12:10.880 and Congress had earlier passed a law

00:12:13.320 saying that they had exclusive oversight

00:12:15.560 over who does and doesn't get fired.

00:12:17.700 Most people today, left, right, and center,

00:12:19.900 consider this an overstepping

00:12:21.520 on the part of Congress.

00:12:23.460 And typically the normal narrative,

00:12:25.440 which is probably closer to the truth

00:12:26.800 than most would give it credit for,

00:12:28.660 is that the radical Republicans were power hungry.

00:12:32.160 That's a psychological statement

00:12:33.540 and you can make of it what you will,

00:12:35.020 but it seems to bear out in their policies.

00:12:36.740 They want full control over all localities in the U.S.

00:12:39.300 They want full control over the executive branch.

00:12:41.280 They're trying to pack the Supreme Court.

00:12:42.900 That's another one that might be a little bit modern

00:12:44.600 and topical, if you will.

00:12:48.100 They want a full radical Republican-controlled government

00:12:51.400 to exert the ideals of egalitarianism

00:12:55.200 and then freedom derived from that egalitarianism

00:12:57.620 onto the country.

00:12:59.040 So that's using government.

00:13:00.600 And Johnson, he dodges that impeachment

00:13:02.660 by like only one vote, right?

00:13:04.600 Yeah, exactly.

00:13:05.140 Which is really interesting

00:13:06.700 because a lot of people today look at impeachment

00:13:09.260 and they think, oh, that's an extreme step, right?

00:13:11.560 This is something that never happens

00:13:13.380 unless someone commits a real crime,

00:13:15.000 these kind of things.

00:13:15.860 Obviously, that's not the case, right?

00:13:17.060 This guy barely dodged the bullet of impeachment

00:13:20.120 with what no one would really consider

00:13:22.500 a crime today at all.

00:13:24.080 And so, you know, the idea that this is something

00:13:27.180 that's been kept, you know, completely sacred

00:13:29.160 and only used and deployed in a very specific situation

00:13:32.480 has never been politicized is complete garbage.

00:13:35.600 This is something that happened not infrequently.

00:13:39.540 Right, yeah.

00:13:39.920 The first time impeachment ever gets used in U.S. history,

00:13:42.420 it's to back up a power-grabbing law

00:13:45.020 that a bunch of, that a special interest group

00:13:47.700 pushed through Congress to make sure

00:13:49.000 that they could make, cut down on their rivalry.

00:13:51.400 A very sacred tool indeed.

00:13:54.380 So that's Johnson.

00:13:57.360 And then he's followed up by Grant,

00:13:58.600 who is initially very popular.

00:14:01.660 Not, once again, not necessarily in the South.

00:14:03.980 South is not going to like anyone

00:14:05.820 that comes out of the party system.

00:14:08.060 But once again, if they're not readmitted

00:14:09.960 from these Reconstruction military regimes,

00:14:12.340 they're not voting, but they're still ruled

00:14:13.720 by whoever gets elected.

00:14:15.180 They're basically treated like military territories,

00:14:17.240 if you want to think of it like that,

00:14:19.060 without getting too specific.

00:14:20.160 So, Grant gets elected.

00:14:24.320 He's mostly popular in the North.

00:14:26.640 Nothing bad has happened.

00:14:27.720 He has a clean slate.

00:14:28.560 He's a war hero.

00:14:30.540 You know, people knew him.

00:14:32.520 He was considered to be somewhat down-to-earth.

00:14:35.220 Not a political elite by any stretch of the imagination,

00:14:38.360 or at least that's how his image was presented.

00:14:40.100 And he uses this great springing board

00:14:44.500 instead of, like, taking sensible political moves

00:14:48.300 from his perspective, like uniting the nation,

00:14:50.380 making sure that there's not going to be

00:14:51.500 a giant Southern backlash or anything like that.

00:14:54.040 He actually cracks down harder on the South

00:14:56.040 after they've been readmitted at this point

00:14:58.140 by passing more federal criminal restrictive laws

00:15:04.460 against paramilitaries, against all these other groups.

00:15:07.420 He starts intensifying railroad policies,

00:15:10.240 giving lands out to railroads who are building across the South

00:15:13.520 and into other parts of the country.

00:15:15.520 Very, very unpopular law, and we'll get to that

00:15:17.840 whenever we get to Tilden in 1876.

00:15:21.560 So, big friends at the railroads.

00:15:23.920 It eventually comes out that he and a bunch of his friends

00:15:26.340 in the cabinet and who knows else, bureaucrats,

00:15:30.120 all levels of Grant's government, basically,

00:15:32.560 were involved in several very large and very serious

00:15:37.220 financial and land scandals, basically.

00:15:41.020 There had been several shell companies

00:15:42.520 that had been supposedly building railroads,

00:15:44.640 land donated to them.

00:15:45.920 They didn't actually exist.

00:15:47.580 There had been basically embezzlement, gold,

00:15:50.520 using government regulations, scares, media,

00:15:53.660 and all the other things to profit off of gold trades.

00:15:57.400 Grant was cashing in on some of this stuff as well.

00:16:00.280 Whether he realized it or not,

00:16:02.120 some people will actually go to this extent

00:16:03.700 and say he didn't realize what he was doing

00:16:05.180 in order to preserve his image.

00:16:08.000 I'll let you guys decide if that's a convincing argument.

00:16:11.620 So, he's seen as very corrupt.

00:16:13.400 By the end of his second term,

00:16:15.360 he gets re-elected in between those stories breaking

00:16:19.320 and him just generally angering the South

00:16:21.880 by being more restrictive on it.

00:16:24.780 And 1872, this Grant's re-election,

00:16:28.840 just to stop there for a couple of seconds,

00:16:31.960 it's interesting because the Democratic Party exists again,

00:16:35.280 the South is readmitted,

00:16:36.380 and they hold a national convention.

00:16:39.200 They're not very popular in most of the country.

00:16:41.580 They still have those two sides,

00:16:42.800 Northern and Southern Democrats,

00:16:44.480 and they basically say,

00:16:46.240 we're probably not going to win the election,

00:16:47.720 but we still have to do something.

00:16:49.500 So, what does the Democratic Party do in 1872?

00:16:52.500 It nominates Horace Greeley,

00:16:57.080 who was a leader of the liberal Republican faction.

00:17:00.760 Liberal Republicans were the parts of the Republican Party

00:17:03.980 that wanted to go softer on the South.

00:17:06.660 Lincoln was somewhere in between a liberal Republican and a moderate.

00:17:09.660 Probably wouldn't go all the way with Greeley,

00:17:11.400 but he definitely was not a radical.

00:17:14.460 Greeley was a staunch protectionist.

00:17:16.260 He was the founder of the main Whig Party newspaper,

00:17:21.400 the former political rival to the Democrats.

00:17:24.360 He was responsible for employing one Karl Marx

00:17:27.540 to write as its European foreign correspondent, basically,

00:17:31.080 writing on grain prices and whatever else in Europe,

00:17:33.740 while also penning a few very influential articles

00:17:37.160 in the history of Marxism under that newspaper.

00:17:40.320 So, this is the person that the liberal Republicans nominated.

00:17:43.900 So, too, do the Democrats.

00:17:46.920 Greeley loses.

00:17:48.560 Grant gets re-elected in the landslide.

00:17:50.460 And people in the Democratic Party are not happy

00:17:52.540 because some of these people,

00:17:55.220 regardless of political pragmatism,

00:17:58.040 they aren't happy with just trying to elect

00:18:02.160 a better version of the Republicans.

00:18:04.800 They actually want someone good on the ballot.

00:18:07.460 Whether or not they have a chance of winning,

00:18:08.740 they don't care.

00:18:09.380 It's about the principle, typically.

00:18:11.140 They're looking for some form of actual opposition

00:18:13.560 as opposed to just rubber-stamping

00:18:15.240 whoever the Republicans are handing out, yeah.

00:18:17.000 Right, exactly.

00:18:18.040 So, this leads to a relatively small split

00:18:21.660 if you go by vote percentage in the Democratic Party.

00:18:24.580 They were called the straight-out Democrats,

00:18:26.480 only existed for a couple of election cycles

00:18:28.880 and then eventually re-merged.

00:18:30.400 But, you know, that's indicative of a wider issue for the Democrats

00:18:36.680 in that the South is not happy if they just keep going along

00:18:39.120 with whatever Republican politics is,

00:18:41.640 just slightly less of it.

00:18:43.000 So, the Democrats get swept away in 1872.

00:18:47.720 Grant's scandals finally break to the public in a massive fashion.

00:18:51.920 He's seen as a drunk.

00:18:53.640 That's another thing that starts getting emphasized in the public.

00:18:57.020 And throughout this period of,

00:19:00.140 during the election and then as things get bad for the Grant administration,

00:19:04.480 what do you do if you want to keep some semblance of power?

00:19:08.200 Well, the Civil War wasn't too long ago.

00:19:11.120 Everyone remembers it.

00:19:12.560 You can just start accusing your opposition

00:19:14.620 of being either actual Confederate sympathizers

00:19:17.420 or closeted Confederate sympathizers.

00:19:19.760 That's a very dirty word in the 1870s.

00:19:22.420 You'd be beaten down in the middle of the street

00:19:24.320 if you aren't careful with who you're around.

00:19:27.340 So, this was a political tactic called waving the bloody shirt.

00:19:31.640 If you want to know why it's called that,

00:19:33.620 there's a, I don't think it's actually true,

00:19:36.720 but there was a speech given in Congress

00:19:38.880 about the anti-Klan enforcement acts

00:19:42.420 that the federal government was using to police the South

00:19:44.640 under the guise of which it locked up

00:19:47.380 about a thousand political operatives

00:19:50.680 in the South of the Democratic Party.

00:19:52.540 So, whether that was justified or not,

00:19:54.300 you can come to your own conclusion,

00:19:56.460 not very Democratic at all,

00:19:58.300 locking up your opposition

00:19:59.860 under the guise of criminal enforcement.

00:20:01.860 However, with the passing of this Klan Act,

00:20:09.020 let me see if I can phrase this correctly here.

00:20:13.220 You had people that were going down to the South

00:20:15.520 and enforcing it,

00:20:16.720 and they would come back home

00:20:17.940 either genuinely or for media attention

00:20:20.020 with horror stories

00:20:20.960 about how terrible and barbaric

00:20:22.340 the white Southerners were.

00:20:24.060 And according to one speech

00:20:26.020 given on the floor of Congress,

00:20:28.060 might have been a representative,

00:20:29.740 I forget if it was a representative or a senator,

00:20:32.660 he said that he witnessed someone's bloody shirt

00:20:37.820 upon being whipped by the Klan,

00:20:39.380 and this is why the federal government

00:20:40.540 needs to go and restore order in the South again.

00:20:42.700 When does fast grocery delivery

00:20:46.720 through Instacart matter most?

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00:20:53.300 When the barbecue's lit,

00:20:54.580 but there's nothing to grill.

00:20:55.960 When the in-laws decide that,

00:20:57.560 actually, they will stay for dinner.

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00:21:15.480 Papers ran with the story

00:21:16.900 and people started saying

00:21:18.080 he waved the bloody shirt in Congress,

00:21:20.180 which is where you get the name

00:21:21.040 Waving the Bloody Shirt,

00:21:22.300 accusing people you don't like

00:21:23.400 of being Klansmen,

00:21:24.420 Southern sympathizers,

00:21:26.220 persona non grata,

00:21:27.320 basically, if you want to update that

00:21:29.340 to an intelligible term.

00:21:33.420 And that buys the Grant administration some time.

00:21:36.940 It really polarizes everyone, though.

00:21:38.540 No one really likes the polarization.

00:21:40.380 They had just been through five years

00:21:42.000 of very devastating war.

00:21:43.700 They aren't keen to get back

00:21:45.100 to sectarian politics.

00:21:47.900 So there are people,

00:21:49.720 diehard supporters in the North,

00:21:51.140 that buy into this completely.

00:21:53.180 Over time, it doesn't have that effect

00:21:55.380 and people start to go against it.

00:21:56.840 It starts to be like a smear tactic.

00:21:58.320 People don't like it.

00:21:59.280 It doesn't play well.

00:22:00.080 So what you're saying is that,

00:22:02.400 you know, if you're a corrupt

00:22:03.940 kind of post-war profiteering administration

00:22:07.340 who's worried about your electoral chances,

00:22:09.740 you can always just, you know,

00:22:12.760 imprison a bunch of your political opponents,

00:22:16.200 smear all of your opposition

00:22:17.240 with a particularly heinous name,

00:22:19.680 and just hope that that kind of pushes you

00:22:22.480 through to the next election.

00:22:23.800 This is actually kind of a classic American tactic,

00:22:28.600 not something that's just recently

00:22:30.340 kind of shown up on the stage.

00:22:33.100 Oh, yeah.

00:22:33.380 And if you wanted to go back

00:22:34.300 through even earlier elections,

00:22:35.580 it's quite a tactic,

00:22:37.660 especially if there's a sequence

00:22:39.320 of one-term presidents

00:22:40.560 that no one remembers the name

00:22:41.780 or the sequence of after Jackson

00:22:44.120 and then before the Civil War.

00:22:46.400 Gets used all the time,

00:22:47.340 not nearly as drastically,

00:22:48.400 because there's no proverbial bloody shirt

00:22:51.020 to wave around,

00:22:51.680 then you're just smearing your candidate

00:22:53.480 or the opposing candidate.

00:22:55.100 So this tactic keeps getting used.

00:22:57.880 The radical Republicans

00:22:58.840 in the Grant administration

00:22:59.840 are increasingly seen

00:23:01.420 as very corrupt, profiteering,

00:23:03.680 malicious, and power-grabbing monsters, basically.

00:23:08.380 They lose their base of support

00:23:10.220 in the North, by and large.

00:23:11.560 They don't have a stranglehold

00:23:12.680 over Congress anymore.

00:23:14.880 They barely even had enough votes

00:23:18.460 to get one off of impeaching a president.

00:23:20.300 So their support never was really total,

00:23:24.120 but it was enough

00:23:24.780 to certainly reform the country,

00:23:27.280 if you want to use a euphemism.

00:23:30.280 Whenever they start to fade,

00:23:31.960 you have factions of the Republican Party

00:23:33.820 and the resurgent Democratic Party

00:23:35.520 that increasingly emphasize

00:23:37.260 the need to come together as a nation.

00:23:39.500 We need to rebuild unity,

00:23:41.780 tie the parts of the countries together,

00:23:43.780 which is also a new argument

00:23:45.420 at this point in time

00:23:46.200 for protective tariffs

00:23:47.520 to make sure that there aren't sections

00:23:49.340 of the country reliant upon

00:23:50.620 specific other foreign powers.

00:23:52.280 Everyone's just going to be producing

00:23:53.560 and exchanging within.

00:23:55.220 So parts of the Republican Party

00:23:57.100 and then minor parts

00:23:58.060 of the Democratic Party

00:23:58.900 get a new resurgence

00:23:59.760 of protective tariffs.

00:24:01.240 This isn't just me

00:24:02.060 being an economic policy nerd.

00:24:05.400 This is actually,

00:24:06.340 economic policy plays

00:24:07.600 a much greater role

00:24:08.700 in political debates

00:24:10.020 and government administrations

00:24:11.280 last, or two centuries ago,

00:24:12.860 than it did any time recently.

00:24:14.580 And that's how you typically

00:24:16.660 won your supporters

00:24:17.440 was economic policy

00:24:18.480 and trade policy.

00:24:20.020 So you get this new resurgence

00:24:22.340 of people wanting

00:24:24.020 protective tariffs.

00:24:26.020 The South, oh,

00:24:27.140 and I forgot to mention this

00:24:28.080 at the start.

00:24:29.280 Part of the reason

00:24:30.120 it was so impoverished

00:24:31.160 was because there was

00:24:32.680 rampant inflation.

00:24:34.120 And then after rampant inflation

00:24:36.120 during the Civil War,

00:24:37.580 some places,

00:24:38.880 at least according to

00:24:39.640 mainstream economic history,

00:24:41.340 experienced a money shortage.

00:24:42.460 That's important for people

00:24:45.560 who particularly know

00:24:47.000 their 1900s history.

00:24:48.460 That's going to lead

00:24:48.980 to populist movements.

00:24:50.240 So the mainstream economics history

00:24:53.140 says that there is

00:24:54.040 a money shortage.

00:24:55.600 There are heterodox schools

00:24:56.700 like the Austrians

00:24:57.400 who might dispute that claim

00:24:58.900 or say that it's not

00:24:59.980 as it's being presented.

00:25:01.700 Regardless,

00:25:02.300 that's the mainstream.

00:25:03.620 We don't really need

00:25:04.360 to get into it.

00:25:05.100 People thought that

00:25:05.880 there was a money shortage

00:25:06.580 and that's what matters.

00:25:07.480 That's what's going to be

00:25:09.660 making the ballot

00:25:10.380 for the places

00:25:11.680 that aren't hyperinflated.

00:25:13.160 So you have this sort of dualism

00:25:14.520 of your money's worth

00:25:15.960 less and less

00:25:16.600 and then also people

00:25:17.840 can't get money.

00:25:19.020 So the worst of both worlds

00:25:20.820 by and large.

00:25:23.460 So with the radical Republicans

00:25:24.960 collapsing,

00:25:25.600 resurgent Democratic Party

00:25:26.880 is on the horizon.

00:25:28.540 The Republicans are moving

00:25:29.520 towards a much more lenient

00:25:30.880 and liberal stance

00:25:32.020 so long as they get

00:25:32.680 certain protective tariffs

00:25:33.940 for their constituents

00:25:35.080 back at home

00:25:35.880 in the industrial states.

00:25:37.000 And then you have

00:25:38.600 poor Southerners

00:25:39.700 who are still

00:25:40.740 not really recovering.

00:25:41.740 They get industry

00:25:42.420 for the first time

00:25:43.300 in some areas.

00:25:44.400 I believe Northern Alabama

00:25:46.680 had its iron mines

00:25:47.760 and led to a steel industry

00:25:49.760 there,

00:25:50.200 burgeoning steel industry.

00:25:51.700 Other parts have started

00:25:52.920 to move into textile manufacturing

00:25:54.680 if I remember correctly

00:25:55.580 along the rivers still.

00:25:58.460 You start getting

00:25:59.360 people in the South

00:26:00.940 want some of the

00:26:02.040 Northern prosperity.

00:26:02.940 The North was well off

00:26:03.760 at this time.

00:26:04.700 It was by far the place

00:26:05.940 to be in the United States.

00:26:07.200 New England,

00:26:08.360 the Great Lakes regions,

00:26:09.820 you were either going

00:26:10.600 to be a well off farmer

00:26:11.480 who hasn't experienced

00:26:12.300 warfare in their life

00:26:13.420 or at least on your farm

00:26:14.760 or you were going

00:26:16.100 to be a factory worker

00:26:17.340 working for a wage

00:26:18.320 that was much more

00:26:19.220 than what you could get

00:26:19.940 on the farm

00:26:20.460 or you were going

00:26:21.460 to be owning

00:26:21.980 or managing a factory.

00:26:23.500 Those were the main groups

00:26:24.820 at the time

00:26:25.360 not counting politicians

00:26:26.740 and people who are

00:26:27.620 typically more well off

00:26:29.200 than everyone else.

00:26:29.880 So with that political

00:26:34.640 landscape in play

00:26:35.640 you get to the 1876 election.

00:26:38.200 The Democratic Party

00:26:39.160 no longer really

00:26:40.560 there are elements

00:26:41.220 but it's not really

00:26:42.060 divided as it once was.

00:26:43.980 They're certainly never

00:26:44.640 again going to run

00:26:45.740 two independent candidates

00:26:47.020 for Northern Democrats

00:26:48.160 and Southern Democrats

00:26:49.000 like they did in the 1850s

00:26:50.580 and 1860s.

00:26:52.700 So they're under one banner.

00:26:55.160 If I remember correctly

00:26:56.060 they meet in St. Louis

00:26:56.980 in 1876

00:26:58.560 and the question is

00:27:00.220 who on earth

00:27:00.900 do we nominate

00:27:01.520 for the presidency?

00:27:02.500 Horace Greeley did not work out.

00:27:03.840 People hated it.

00:27:05.640 There's an actual chance

00:27:06.740 that the Democratic Party

00:27:07.700 can be in power again

00:27:08.660 after like two decades.

00:27:10.880 So what do we do?

00:27:13.220 Well, most of the people

00:27:14.640 that were up for consideration

00:27:16.160 were Northerners

00:27:16.980 or non-Southerners basically.

00:27:19.740 Were the vast majority

00:27:20.780 of the slate.

00:27:21.180 I think there were like

00:27:21.820 six candidates

00:27:22.500 one was from New Jersey

00:27:23.620 Pennsylvania

00:27:24.120 which I believe

00:27:24.940 was Winfield Scott Hancock

00:27:26.380 was on the ballot.

00:27:28.440 You had Samuel Tilden

00:27:29.780 who's sort of going

00:27:30.960 to be the star

00:27:31.440 of what we're going

00:27:31.920 to be discussing.

00:27:32.620 He was the governor

00:27:33.160 of New York

00:27:33.780 famously anti-corruption

00:27:35.660 had a very clean administration

00:27:37.200 pro-gold standard.

00:27:39.540 Yeah, got rid of Boss Tweed, right?

00:27:41.500 That was one of his achievements.

00:27:43.080 It was Tweed

00:27:44.900 and a couple other people

00:27:46.620 it was the canal ring

00:27:47.520 was one of the things

00:27:48.520 that he was famous

00:27:49.040 for busting up.

00:27:51.180 He was ahead of his time

00:27:53.400 if you want to use

00:27:54.100 an overused historical way

00:27:55.940 of looking at it.

00:27:57.220 This was sort of

00:27:57.800 the Northern Mid-Atlantic politics

00:28:00.360 that would actually go on

00:28:01.500 to win the presidency

00:28:02.360 a few times later.

00:28:04.140 But that's jumping ahead

00:28:04.880 a little bit.

00:28:06.260 Clean guy, anti-corruption.

00:28:08.180 He supported

00:28:08.620 sort of like a very stable

00:28:11.300 conservative money supply

00:28:12.820 that would eventually

00:28:13.940 work its way

00:28:14.520 throughout the country.

00:28:15.780 Sort of like organically

00:28:16.800 solved the problem.

00:28:17.600 He was by far

00:28:19.740 the popular one there.

00:28:21.120 A few other people

00:28:21.820 I think there was a guy

00:28:22.540 running from Ohio

00:28:23.320 and maybe Georgia.

00:28:25.520 So those are your options.

00:28:27.160 There was a Georgian

00:28:27.960 on the ballot

00:28:28.340 did not get very far at all.

00:28:31.220 Tilden wins

00:28:32.180 I think after two rounds.

00:28:34.540 Eventually the entire

00:28:35.480 committee supports him.

00:28:37.400 They launch fireworks

00:28:38.340 off from

00:28:38.880 like the old

00:28:40.460 courthouse in St. Louis.

00:28:41.800 I don't know which one

00:28:42.520 for any St. Louis

00:28:43.520 since they're going

00:28:44.080 to press me on that later.

00:28:45.160 I just know that there

00:28:46.200 was a fireworks display

00:28:47.160 which is a very fancy thing

00:28:48.420 to see in the 1870s.

00:28:49.880 So they're happy.

00:28:52.320 Things are looking

00:28:52.920 really optimistic.

00:28:54.440 And the Republicans

00:28:55.400 they don't have as much

00:28:57.280 of a crowded primary

00:28:58.540 if I remember correctly.

00:28:59.680 It's Rutherford B. Hayes

00:29:01.320 versus a few other

00:29:02.520 Civil War

00:29:03.420 and bureaucratic people.

00:29:05.120 He eventually wins

00:29:06.120 if I remember correctly

00:29:07.000 as a sort of

00:29:07.640 compromise candidate.

00:29:09.040 Yeah, what I was looking into

00:29:10.380 it looks like they're

00:29:11.180 you know

00:29:11.440 because obviously

00:29:12.020 there was questions

00:29:13.880 on whether Grant

00:29:14.620 would run for a third term

00:29:15.980 and so it

00:29:16.680 and Hayes

00:29:18.860 wasn't really well known

00:29:20.060 outside of his state

00:29:21.340 so it looked like

00:29:23.100 it took you know

00:29:23.900 five, six, seven rounds

00:29:25.280 of voting

00:29:26.380 before they finally

00:29:27.040 kind of came

00:29:27.480 to a compromise on him.

00:29:29.000 Right, because

00:29:29.740 one of the dynamics

00:29:31.200 you still had

00:29:31.720 in the Republican Party

00:29:32.620 during this primary

00:29:33.360 was you had

00:29:34.480 the waning

00:29:35.040 radical Republicans

00:29:36.380 they obviously

00:29:37.420 had their

00:29:38.080 special boy

00:29:39.300 that they wanted

00:29:39.840 to get the presidency.

00:29:41.420 You had the more

00:29:42.040 liberal factions

00:29:42.780 that were more

00:29:44.020 conciliatory

00:29:44.600 towards the south

00:29:45.300 and then you had

00:29:46.080 Rutherford B. Hayes

00:29:46.940 who was the dark horse

00:29:47.700 candidate at the compromise

00:29:48.720 where after

00:29:50.060 neither side could agree

00:29:51.000 they just chose

00:29:51.640 this nobody

00:29:52.180 if I remember correctly

00:29:53.000 from Ohio

00:29:53.600 and he was

00:29:55.780 a war veteran

00:29:57.260 saw the Civil War

00:29:58.600 he had a pretty

00:30:00.580 you know

00:30:01.420 no one disliked him really

00:30:02.800 he didn't really

00:30:03.400 have any opposition

00:30:04.140 so that's a great

00:30:04.940 compromise candidate

00:30:05.860 if your party's

00:30:06.520 about to split in half.

00:30:08.200 So

00:30:08.300 he's the Republican nominee

00:30:11.120 a little bit more

00:30:12.280 protectionist

00:30:12.860 once again

00:30:13.280 they have their

00:30:13.780 constituents in the north

00:30:14.960 who are much more

00:30:16.280 industrial

00:30:16.640 they have to compete

00:30:17.380 with foreign markets

00:30:18.120 they don't like it

00:30:18.900 they want protective tariffs

00:30:20.140 they also have a

00:30:21.460 political economy

00:30:22.860 history of

00:30:24.020 being for tariffs

00:30:25.220 that was the entire

00:30:26.120 Federalist movement

00:30:26.980 was a very sort of

00:30:27.840 insular

00:30:28.260 Federalist in the

00:30:29.540 Whigs

00:30:29.660 very insular

00:30:30.320 economically developed

00:30:31.620 using some state

00:30:32.520 intervention

00:30:33.100 at home

00:30:34.700 the Democrats

00:30:36.440 by contrast

00:30:37.100 have always been

00:30:37.600 much more

00:30:37.980 free trade oriented

00:30:38.940 this was

00:30:40.060 especially obvious

00:30:41.820 in the south

00:30:42.360 but now after

00:30:43.140 the Civil War

00:30:43.780 the south is still

00:30:44.980 agricultural

00:30:45.480 it's trying to get

00:30:46.240 industry

00:30:46.640 and to do this

00:30:48.060 it needs access

00:30:48.640 to one

00:30:49.260 foreign markets

00:30:50.040 tariffs actually

00:30:51.300 hurt those

00:30:51.800 at this point in time

00:30:52.560 because

00:30:52.860 you know

00:30:53.600 you don't have

00:30:54.120 a credit card

00:30:55.360 or the internet

00:30:56.200 to make trades with

00:30:57.280 you actually have

00:30:57.760 to build up credit

00:30:58.380 with other people

00:30:59.100 if you're going

00:30:59.740 to use that kind

00:31:00.380 of business

00:31:00.820 tariffs hurt that

00:31:01.960 because you can't

00:31:02.640 then buy from them

00:31:04.040 using that

00:31:04.800 it's going to be

00:31:05.580 more expensive

00:31:06.120 so they're more

00:31:08.100 free trade oriented

00:31:08.900 they also need to

00:31:09.720 well actually

00:31:12.780 they don't need to

00:31:13.620 they are going to

00:31:14.340 run on anti-corruption

00:31:15.560 specifically because

00:31:17.320 everyone hated it

00:31:18.260 it was a winning issue

00:31:19.040 they had multiple

00:31:20.280 Democratic candidates

00:31:21.220 that were against

00:31:22.040 corruption

00:31:22.520 they were willing

00:31:24.560 to basically

00:31:25.300 sideline their

00:31:26.400 political machines

00:31:27.340 in the north

00:31:27.900 which is

00:31:29.220 why Samuel Tilden

00:31:30.680 was so popular

00:31:31.400 he had opposition

00:31:32.520 if I remember

00:31:33.440 correctly

00:31:33.840 from honest

00:31:34.660 John Kelly

00:31:35.240 who was a

00:31:35.720 political boss

00:31:36.440 the honest

00:31:37.880 in his name

00:31:38.360 is a pejorative

00:31:39.780 given to him

00:31:40.420 it was not

00:31:40.840 an actual

00:31:42.220 real truthful

00:31:43.280 name

00:31:43.700 however

00:31:45.520 these political

00:31:46.180 bosses

00:31:46.520 were sidelined

00:31:47.680 by this point

00:31:48.320 the Democratic

00:31:50.140 Party is ready

00:31:50.800 to go for

00:31:51.460 a gold standard

00:31:52.600 be a little bit

00:31:54.200 more oriented

00:31:54.760 towards free trade

00:31:55.680 they're ready

00:31:56.900 to end

00:31:57.260 reconstruction

00:31:57.800 in the south

00:31:58.380 Tilden was

00:31:59.040 the northerner

00:31:59.540 governor of New York

00:32:00.480 he can't

00:32:02.000 just ignore

00:32:02.720 the south

00:32:03.160 that's still

00:32:03.760 by far

00:32:04.880 the democratic

00:32:07.400 party's

00:32:08.060 political base

00:32:09.040 you have to do

00:32:10.520 what they want

00:32:11.020 whether you like

00:32:11.560 it or not

00:32:11.900 if I remember

00:32:12.300 correctly

00:32:12.600 I think

00:32:12.880 Tilden was

00:32:13.280 just in favor

00:32:13.800 of getting

00:32:14.120 the federal

00:32:14.480 government

00:32:14.860 out of the south

00:32:15.580 anyways

00:32:15.980 you still

00:32:17.360 you still had

00:32:17.520 a sort of

00:32:17.960 a decentralist

00:32:19.760 sort of

00:32:20.300 Calhounite

00:32:20.940 tradition

00:32:21.560 in the

00:32:21.900 Democratic Party

00:32:22.620 at this point

00:32:23.260 and outside

00:32:25.760 of ending

00:32:26.040 reconstruction

00:32:26.660 anti-corruption

00:32:28.220 free trade

00:32:29.480 you also had

00:32:30.680 a more

00:32:31.660 I don't know

00:32:33.160 what you call

00:32:33.480 it a more

00:32:33.740 conciliatory

00:32:34.400 approach

00:32:35.600 the Democratic Party

00:32:36.720 was not going

00:32:37.320 to be

00:32:37.780 LARPing

00:32:39.180 as a confederacy

00:32:40.400 in the United States

00:32:41.420 they were going

00:32:41.900 to be trying

00:32:42.360 to run for

00:32:42.840 the whole country

00:32:43.540 sort of have

00:32:44.660 a national campaign

00:32:45.660 this was

00:32:46.100 unpopular

00:32:47.100 with more

00:32:47.500 radical elements

00:32:48.160 in the south

00:32:48.700 but

00:32:50.000 this is

00:32:51.680 where political

00:32:52.380 pragmatism

00:32:53.040 perhaps plays

00:32:53.880 a bigger role

00:32:54.360 than ideals

00:32:54.900 and morality

00:32:56.460 and politics

00:32:57.120 so

00:32:57.500 that's the stage

00:32:58.960 for the 1876

00:32:59.860 election

00:33:00.360 those are your

00:33:00.780 two runners

00:33:01.260 anyone that's

00:33:04.260 seen a list

00:33:04.740 of US presidents

00:33:05.500 knows that

00:33:06.180 Samuel Tilden

00:33:06.880 is not a president

00:33:07.980 he's virtually

00:33:09.240 unknown to anyone

00:33:09.960 he does not win

00:33:10.740 why doesn't he win

00:33:12.840 well

00:33:13.140 he loses

00:33:15.220 the state

00:33:15.680 of South Carolina

00:33:16.500 according to the

00:33:17.180 official history

00:33:17.900 textbooks

00:33:18.320 that we have

00:33:19.080 after Hayes won

00:33:20.420 he loses

00:33:21.580 the state

00:33:21.900 of South Carolina

00:33:22.620 by I think

00:33:23.140 like a couple

00:33:23.620 hundred votes

00:33:24.360 which

00:33:25.860 anyone

00:33:26.600 in vote counting

00:33:27.620 or political

00:33:28.700 theory

00:33:29.120 political science

00:33:30.120 ethics

00:33:31.360 knows that

00:33:32.340 a couple

00:33:32.800 hundred votes

00:33:33.540 in a general

00:33:34.240 election

00:33:34.700 typically could

00:33:35.500 mean

00:33:35.860 something was

00:33:37.200 going on there

00:33:37.820 very rarely

00:33:38.880 do you get

00:33:39.280 a margin

00:33:39.640 that tiny

00:33:40.580 and not have

00:33:42.400 both sides

00:33:42.840 wanting to

00:33:43.260 investigate it

00:33:43.920 to either

00:33:44.200 strengthen

00:33:44.540 their margin

00:33:45.080 or flip

00:33:46.420 the state

00:33:46.860 so

00:33:47.920 South Carolina

00:33:49.900 is dealing

00:33:51.400 why did it

00:33:52.120 almost flip

00:33:52.580 South Carolina

00:33:53.160 typically seems

00:33:53.840 like the

00:33:54.380 democratic

00:33:55.160 secessionist

00:33:56.360 southern state

00:33:57.220 the most

00:33:57.960 conservative one

00:33:58.680 in the country

00:33:59.160 perhaps

00:33:59.700 why is it

00:34:01.160 split 50-50

00:34:02.020 between the

00:34:02.720 Republicans

00:34:03.240 who have just

00:34:04.040 occupied the

00:34:05.340 South for

00:34:05.800 who knows how

00:34:06.300 long

00:34:06.560 and the Democrats

00:34:07.320 who are

00:34:07.740 basically just

00:34:08.980 giving South Carolina's

00:34:09.980 platform to the

00:34:10.620 country

00:34:10.940 or in a

00:34:12.900 moderate sense

00:34:13.440 at least

00:34:13.860 well

00:34:14.560 like we

00:34:16.340 mentioned

00:34:16.680 or like I

00:34:17.260 mentioned at the

00:34:17.700 beginning

00:34:17.960 those civil

00:34:18.920 rights regimes

00:34:19.600 that they were

00:34:20.000 propping up

00:34:20.480 by the

00:34:20.740 military

00:34:21.060 they weren't

00:34:21.580 just

00:34:21.900 vanished

00:34:23.040 after the

00:34:23.720 South got

00:34:24.220 readmitted

00:34:24.640 to the

00:34:24.940 Union

00:34:25.220 after Grant's

00:34:26.240 administration

00:34:26.660 started to

00:34:27.160 lose grasp

00:34:27.660 on what was

00:34:28.120 happening

00:34:28.520 those

00:34:30.040 that

00:34:30.920 political

00:34:31.600 block

00:34:32.020 of

00:34:32.280 scalawags

00:34:33.240 carpetbaggers

00:34:34.080 African

00:34:34.940 Americans

00:34:35.440 pragmatists

00:34:38.120 basically

00:34:38.540 still existed

00:34:39.440 in most

00:34:40.780 Southern

00:34:41.020 states

00:34:41.520 hold on

00:34:42.940 sorry

00:34:43.200 including

00:34:44.180 South Carolina

00:34:45.480 still had that

00:34:46.320 coalition going

00:34:47.080 if you look

00:34:48.000 at the map

00:34:48.440 it's typically

00:34:48.980 in the black

00:34:49.480 areas of

00:34:49.980 South Carolina

00:34:50.640 that voted

00:34:51.480 for the

00:34:51.820 Republicans

00:34:52.740 and it was

00:34:53.840 typically

00:34:54.120 the wider

00:34:54.520 areas

00:34:55.020 that voted

00:34:56.100 for the

00:34:56.380 Democrats

00:34:56.720 plus the

00:34:57.140 urban

00:34:57.400 areas

00:34:58.600 urban areas

00:34:59.320 were typically

00:34:59.780 controlled

00:35:00.240 by the

00:35:01.420 more

00:35:02.080 old

00:35:04.120 aristocratic

00:35:05.040 types

00:35:05.480 the old

00:35:06.020 Southern

00:35:06.320 political

00:35:07.520 bosses

00:35:07.860 still had

00:35:08.400 control

00:35:08.700 over most

00:35:09.180 urban areas

00:35:09.780 with few

00:35:10.700 major

00:35:11.020 exceptions

00:35:11.460 and

00:35:13.260 this

00:35:14.760 leads to

00:35:15.540 a national

00:35:16.160 outrage

00:35:16.880 because the

00:35:18.160 Civil War

00:35:18.560 is in

00:35:19.000 recent memory

00:35:20.340 not even

00:35:20.740 living memory

00:35:21.440 most of

00:35:22.220 these people

00:35:22.740 remember

00:35:23.340 fighting against

00:35:24.220 the other

00:35:24.520 side

00:35:24.840 you have

00:35:26.140 another

00:35:26.420 election

00:35:26.880 that is

00:35:27.300 very very

00:35:27.880 close

00:35:28.360 divided along

00:35:29.800 geographic lines

00:35:30.720 once again

00:35:31.220 with

00:35:31.620 Tilden

00:35:33.060 carrying a few

00:35:33.640 places in the

00:35:34.340 north

00:35:34.580 but

00:35:35.420 obviously

00:35:36.260 the south

00:35:36.660 goes

00:35:36.880 Democratic

00:35:37.360 and then

00:35:38.620 the north

00:35:39.140 goes mostly

00:35:39.660 Republican

00:35:40.200 generalizing

00:35:41.900 here so that

00:35:42.360 people get an

00:35:42.880 idea of what's

00:35:43.240 going on

00:35:43.720 and we have

00:35:44.820 a flashpoint

00:35:45.660 is the country

00:35:46.900 just going to

00:35:47.560 dissolve now

00:35:48.400 yeah so

00:35:49.240 as I understand

00:35:50.100 it's even more

00:35:51.020 contentious

00:35:51.580 because

00:35:52.120 you know

00:35:52.680 Tilden wins

00:35:53.700 the popular

00:35:54.320 vote by a

00:35:55.000 good margin

00:35:55.900 like that

00:35:56.720 that's not even

00:35:57.320 in question

00:35:57.940 right

00:35:58.260 I think

00:35:58.880 I saw

00:35:59.560 it's almost

00:36:00.440 51% of the vote

00:36:02.040 which is

00:36:02.520 the widest

00:36:03.280 amount

00:36:03.540 that any

00:36:04.140 presidential

00:36:04.840 candidate

00:36:05.280 has ever

00:36:05.780 won the

00:36:06.060 popular

00:36:06.400 vote by

00:36:06.900 and not

00:36:07.440 been given

00:36:07.840 the presidency

00:36:08.500 it's more

00:36:09.340 than Hillary

00:36:09.860 Clinton

00:36:10.180 it's more

00:36:10.640 than you

00:36:11.200 know

00:36:11.340 Al Gore

00:36:11.780 it's

00:36:12.300 it's

00:36:13.040 it's a

00:36:13.300 it's a

00:36:13.620 wide margin

00:36:14.260 that he

00:36:14.520 wins this

00:36:15.000 by

00:36:15.320 and also

00:36:16.320 it's not

00:36:16.760 just South

00:36:17.120 Carolina

00:36:17.680 Florida

00:36:18.360 and Louisiana

00:36:19.180 also

00:36:20.080 you know

00:36:21.100 are

00:36:21.720 contested

00:36:22.840 both parties

00:36:23.500 are claiming

00:36:23.940 that they've

00:36:24.380 kind of

00:36:24.660 won the

00:36:25.260 of the

00:36:25.560 electoral

00:36:25.840 college

00:36:26.240 vote

00:36:26.400 there

00:36:26.580 so

00:36:27.020 Tilden's

00:36:27.460 got a

00:36:27.940 good

00:36:28.120 20 vote

00:36:29.220 plus lead

00:36:30.080 in the

00:36:30.660 electoral

00:36:30.980 college

00:36:31.460 but these

00:36:32.200 three

00:36:32.700 states

00:36:33.760 all

00:36:34.360 kind of

00:36:35.000 you know

00:36:35.460 South

00:36:36.180 Carolina

00:36:36.600 you know

00:36:37.520 maybe the

00:36:38.340 flashpoint

00:36:38.800 here

00:36:39.000 but there's

00:36:39.880 three states

00:36:40.440 that are

00:36:40.720 all contested

00:36:41.980 with that

00:36:42.820 and then also

00:36:43.460 I believe

00:36:43.800 one state

00:36:44.460 didn't even

00:36:44.960 have it

00:36:45.320 got its

00:36:45.720 elector

00:36:46.040 replaced

00:36:46.660 right

00:36:47.300 so that

00:36:47.840 threw

00:36:48.340 everything

00:36:48.600 else

00:36:48.880 into

00:36:49.240 right

00:36:51.660 and none

00:36:52.520 of the

00:36:52.700 stuff ever

00:36:53.120 really gets

00:36:53.500 mentioned

00:36:53.780 in any

00:36:54.440 history

00:36:54.740 textbooks

00:36:55.220 including

00:36:55.640 your good

00:36:56.040 AP

00:36:56.300 textbooks

00:36:56.800 no one

00:36:57.200 usually cares

00:36:58.060 about this

00:36:58.480 because they

00:36:58.740 usually just

00:36:59.280 see crazy

00:37:00.500 things happen

00:37:01.120 and then

00:37:01.560 it gets

00:37:01.940 resolved

00:37:02.200 later

00:37:02.480 we'll get

00:37:02.760 to that

00:37:02.980 in a

00:37:03.160 second

00:37:03.360 but you

00:37:04.140 are right

00:37:04.580 and the

00:37:05.540 reason I'm

00:37:05.900 focusing on

00:37:06.340 South Carolina

00:37:06.900 in particular

00:37:07.600 is because

00:37:08.640 South Carolina

00:37:09.340 during the

00:37:09.860 last few

00:37:10.420 Republican

00:37:11.420 administrations

00:37:12.820 was basically

00:37:13.900 targeted

00:37:14.380 so the

00:37:16.260 various

00:37:17.380 enforcements

00:37:17.980 acts

00:37:18.320 the anti-Klan

00:37:19.300 acts

00:37:19.560 and all this

00:37:19.880 other stuff

00:37:20.260 was specifically

00:37:20.840 used to

00:37:21.600 press control

00:37:22.640 over states

00:37:23.200 like South

00:37:23.820 Carolina

00:37:24.320 where paramilitaries

00:37:25.960 not the Klan

00:37:26.540 but once again

00:37:27.540 the red shirts

00:37:28.000 I believe

00:37:28.440 replaced a

00:37:29.020 governor

00:37:29.320 you had

00:37:30.800 probably

00:37:32.400 credible

00:37:33.080 attempts

00:37:33.540 at restricting

00:37:34.140 the franchise

00:37:34.700 in at least

00:37:35.400 a few

00:37:35.800 small areas

00:37:36.780 South Carolina

00:37:39.560 was a state

00:37:40.340 that was

00:37:40.880 basically

00:37:42.300 taken back

00:37:43.360 in its

00:37:43.920 Democratic Party

00:37:45.180 infrastructure

00:37:45.700 through force

00:37:46.580 or through

00:37:47.160 intimidation

00:37:47.860 if most

00:37:49.480 accounts are

00:37:49.980 to be believed

00:37:50.580 and I'm sure

00:37:51.360 there's room

00:37:51.720 for revisionism

00:37:52.420 there

00:37:52.660 but

00:37:52.980 it's a flashpoint

00:37:55.440 because there

00:37:55.860 has been stuff

00:37:56.580 going on there

00:37:57.180 basically since

00:37:58.120 reconstruction

00:37:58.680 started

00:37:59.300 you have

00:38:00.760 basically a

00:38:02.100 low level

00:38:02.500 guerrilla war

00:38:03.120 as soon as

00:38:03.500 reconstruction

00:38:03.960 was implemented

00:38:04.640 there

00:38:05.040 after that

00:38:07.100 sort of

00:38:07.420 died down

00:38:07.900 then you

00:38:08.180 had a

00:38:08.560 wave of

00:38:09.520 extremely

00:38:10.240 populist

00:38:10.860 militias

00:38:11.400 and then you

00:38:12.360 get to the

00:38:12.680 election

00:38:13.020 South Carolina

00:38:13.880 and then as

00:38:14.560 you mentioned

00:38:14.840 Florida

00:38:15.240 and Georgia

00:38:17.080 was it

00:38:17.720 I think it's

00:38:18.340 Louisiana

00:38:18.700 is the other

00:38:19.180 one

00:38:19.440 yeah

00:38:19.760 so

00:38:20.720 these states

00:38:22.640 have potential

00:38:24.180 discrepancies

00:38:24.980 Tilton's already

00:38:25.920 Tilton's the

00:38:27.100 popular candidate

00:38:27.820 by far

00:38:28.300 he was the

00:38:28.640 one known

00:38:29.040 most widely

00:38:30.380 people had a

00:38:31.620 positive opinion

00:38:32.300 towards him

00:38:32.880 he was seen

00:38:33.480 as a good

00:38:34.100 sort of like

00:38:35.580 a good way

00:38:36.280 for the

00:38:36.560 Democratic Party

00:38:37.240 to re-emerge

00:38:37.900 into American

00:38:38.420 life if it

00:38:38.980 wasn't just

00:38:39.460 your number

00:38:40.060 one option

00:38:40.540 anyways

00:38:40.880 as we mentioned

00:38:41.920 earlier

00:38:42.260 Rutherford B. Hayes

00:38:43.240 was a compromise

00:38:44.440 candidate

00:38:44.900 he wasn't running

00:38:45.860 this giant

00:38:46.400 national

00:38:47.000 platform

00:38:48.180 he wasn't

00:38:49.220 some great

00:38:50.600 renowned

00:38:51.000 war hero

00:38:51.540 that everyone

00:38:51.960 knew about

00:38:52.400 he was just

00:38:52.800 the guy

00:38:53.640 that the GOP

00:38:54.320 chose

00:38:54.840 because they

00:38:56.080 needed to

00:38:56.580 unite their

00:38:56.980 party

00:38:57.340 prevent

00:38:58.560 what happened

00:38:59.640 prevent

00:39:00.560 happening to

00:39:01.540 them

00:39:01.740 what happened

00:39:02.180 to the

00:39:02.440 Democrats

00:39:02.920 a few decades

00:39:03.820 earlier

00:39:04.240 so

00:39:05.080 Tilton wins

00:39:06.600 the popular vote

00:39:07.340 there's a lot

00:39:08.200 of as you

00:39:10.240 mentioned

00:39:10.520 very shady

00:39:11.280 things that

00:39:11.760 went on

00:39:12.240 with how

00:39:12.520 the electoral

00:39:12.980 college

00:39:13.400 was being

00:39:13.760 handled

00:39:14.120 one guy

00:39:14.740 got replaced

00:39:15.400 a few

00:39:15.980 people were

00:39:16.440 supposedly

00:39:16.900 bribed

00:39:17.420 by northern

00:39:17.900 money

00:39:18.220 he had

00:39:19.120 a few

00:39:19.360 people

00:39:19.760 who were

00:39:20.220 just

00:39:21.480 if I remember

00:39:22.500 correctly

00:39:22.780 not even

00:39:23.140 supposed to

00:39:23.520 be there

00:39:23.760 but declared

00:39:24.180 themselves

00:39:24.540 like the

00:39:24.940 representative

00:39:25.460 for that

00:39:25.860 state

00:39:26.200 based off

00:39:26.680 of some

00:39:27.100 strange

00:39:28.220 and

00:39:28.540 non-legitimate

00:39:29.660 claim

00:39:30.040 quite frankly

00:39:30.660 so

00:39:32.100 once again

00:39:33.280 what's going

00:39:33.940 to happen

00:39:34.400 foreign

00:39:35.420 or outsiders

00:39:36.080 were saying

00:39:36.440 the country

00:39:36.800 might just

00:39:37.220 dissolve

00:39:37.580 at this

00:39:37.900 point

00:39:38.160 they've

00:39:38.520 had a few

00:39:39.460 years

00:39:39.760 where they

00:39:40.060 occupied

00:39:40.600 the rebelling

00:39:41.180 regions

00:39:41.660 they tried

00:39:42.640 to bring

00:39:42.920 them back

00:39:43.240 into the

00:39:43.580 fold

00:39:43.820 they put

00:39:44.460 up an

00:39:44.720 actual

00:39:45.040 political

00:39:45.500 fight

00:39:45.920 and it

00:39:46.800 looks like

00:39:47.280 shady

00:39:47.660 shenanigans

00:39:48.180 on who

00:39:49.000 knows what

00:39:49.380 side

00:39:49.680 it's happening

00:39:50.460 at the time

00:39:51.040 1870s media

00:39:52.420 technology

00:39:52.980 don't have

00:39:53.480 people recording

00:39:54.180 on their phones

00:39:54.700 what's happening

00:39:55.340 at the polls

00:39:55.920 makes it to the

00:39:57.160 newspapers

00:39:57.580 everyone thinks

00:39:58.600 that both sides

00:39:59.980 are pulling some

00:40:00.500 sort of trick

00:40:00.960 down there

00:40:01.420 and if I remember

00:40:04.660 correctly I think

00:40:05.220 a lot of the

00:40:05.540 English and Scottish

00:40:06.300 and continental

00:40:07.500 Europeans thought

00:40:08.240 that there was a

00:40:08.680 good chance that

00:40:09.260 the country could

00:40:10.120 just dissolve

00:40:10.780 yeah it's

00:40:12.160 certainly a

00:40:12.920 time of

00:40:13.400 crisis

00:40:13.780 for sure

00:40:14.400 right like

00:40:14.860 you said

00:40:15.240 you're only a

00:40:15.960 decade removed

00:40:16.620 from a

00:40:17.200 civil war

00:40:18.160 you have a

00:40:19.160 military

00:40:19.660 occupation

00:40:20.520 of your

00:40:20.960 former

00:40:21.500 you know

00:40:22.800 kind of

00:40:23.840 countrymen

00:40:24.460 you know

00:40:24.920 you're

00:40:25.480 kind of

00:40:25.880 completely

00:40:26.200 remaking

00:40:26.700 the economic

00:40:27.400 apparatus

00:40:27.980 there's

00:40:28.700 wide

00:40:29.260 accusations

00:40:31.740 of corruption

00:40:32.540 and everything

00:40:33.120 else

00:40:33.620 obviously it's a

00:40:35.300 terrible time

00:40:35.920 to have an

00:40:36.580 electoral

00:40:37.080 inconsistency

00:40:39.140 make people

00:40:39.880 doubt the

00:40:40.280 legitimacy of

00:40:40.940 the election

00:40:41.380 now before

00:40:42.560 we move on

00:40:43.220 to kind of

00:40:43.780 the solution

00:40:44.260 here I do

00:40:44.760 want to

00:40:44.980 address the

00:40:45.380 fact if

00:40:46.620 you look at

00:40:46.980 most history

00:40:48.240 books that

00:40:49.080 do actually

00:40:49.740 address this

00:40:50.420 and like you

00:40:50.800 said most

00:40:51.180 don't most

00:40:51.680 just be like

00:40:52.180 some crazy

00:40:52.840 stuff happened

00:40:53.440 and then they

00:40:53.940 compromised

00:40:54.340 and then the

00:40:55.080 next thing

00:40:55.460 happened they

00:40:56.280 don't really

00:40:56.560 get into this

00:40:57.100 at all but

00:40:57.560 those that do

00:40:58.280 address it

00:40:59.080 usually say

00:41:00.360 something like

00:41:00.980 okay well

00:41:01.500 clearly Tilden

00:41:02.780 was winning

00:41:03.900 by a lot like

00:41:04.940 he was winning

00:41:05.340 the popular vote

00:41:06.100 he was winning

00:41:06.860 the electoral

00:41:07.340 college but

00:41:08.980 the big thing

00:41:09.940 is the

00:41:11.060 oppression of

00:41:12.080 the black

00:41:12.940 vote right

00:41:13.340 that there

00:41:13.760 was a there

00:41:14.400 was a concerted

00:41:15.680 effort across

00:41:16.260 all of these

00:41:16.780 states a

00:41:17.620 violent one

00:41:18.460 that you know

00:41:19.260 usually it's

00:41:20.300 you know talk

00:41:20.760 about hundreds

00:41:21.900 of people killed

00:41:22.920 trying to vote

00:41:23.680 that kind of

00:41:24.260 thing and so

00:41:25.420 this is why

00:41:26.140 it's okay

00:41:26.820 that Tilden

00:41:28.680 was kind of

00:41:29.440 basically removed

00:41:31.080 from the

00:41:31.400 presidency

00:41:32.020 denied the

00:41:32.800 presidency

00:41:33.220 because really

00:41:34.380 the you know

00:41:35.240 there was there

00:41:36.220 was this kind

00:41:36.780 of violent

00:41:38.020 suppression

00:41:38.980 of legitimate

00:41:39.700 voting in

00:41:40.560 the south

00:41:41.060 and so

00:41:41.640 that's why

00:41:42.300 like basically

00:41:42.840 none of their

00:41:43.480 their votes

00:41:44.700 could really

00:41:45.060 be trusted

00:41:45.520 and it's okay

00:41:46.220 if if they

00:41:47.140 couldn't if they

00:41:48.440 weren't actually

00:41:48.980 tabulated

00:41:49.580 so I mean I'm

00:41:51.080 sure there

00:41:51.520 absolutely was

00:41:52.840 a level of

00:41:54.000 suppression you

00:41:54.760 know these

00:41:55.080 things are very

00:41:55.600 real to some

00:41:56.760 extent but the

00:41:58.000 question is like

00:41:58.660 does that

00:41:59.280 invalidate I

00:42:00.560 guess for

00:42:01.120 people and I'm

00:42:01.780 not asking I'm

00:42:02.580 not asking you

00:42:03.500 to make a moral

00:42:04.560 judgment on that

00:42:05.180 but I think

00:42:05.740 that's just

00:42:06.100 something for

00:42:06.860 people to think

00:42:07.240 about when they

00:42:07.620 think about the

00:42:07.960 legitimacy of the

00:42:08.580 election basically

00:42:09.440 if you look at

00:42:10.060 the honest

00:42:10.480 historical textbook

00:42:11.320 they're like well

00:42:12.020 yeah obviously

00:42:12.500 Tilden won but

00:42:13.920 there was violent

00:42:14.580 suppression of

00:42:15.740 voting in the

00:42:16.600 south to some

00:42:17.540 degree and so

00:42:18.720 discarding basically

00:42:20.040 of their votes and

00:42:20.660 just handing it to

00:42:21.420 the republicans was

00:42:23.040 more or less like

00:42:23.840 okay like that was

00:42:24.820 that was on the

00:42:25.580 on the up

00:42:26.640 right and so

00:42:29.180 yeah there's that

00:42:30.340 question for people

00:42:31.280 to ponder another

00:42:31.960 one that might go

00:42:32.700 alongside of it

00:42:33.420 sort of as a

00:42:34.160 corollary

00:42:35.840 can you point to

00:42:38.260 any election in

00:42:38.920 United States

00:42:39.420 history that not

00:42:40.300 have this voter

00:42:41.100 suppression that

00:42:41.820 would invalidate the

00:42:42.620 whole result that

00:42:43.380 would be a sort of

00:42:44.380 like can you

00:42:44.760 consistently apply the

00:42:45.740 standard and then

00:42:47.140 the sort of counter

00:42:48.980 to that historical

00:42:50.060 narrative that other

00:42:50.900 people have developed

00:42:51.620 once again I do

00:42:52.440 very little original

00:42:54.260 research most of my

00:42:55.580 stuff is taken from

00:42:56.500 a few people from

00:42:58.300 typically revisionist

00:43:00.020 backgrounds but the

00:43:02.280 actual counter that

00:43:03.560 was given at the

00:43:04.280 time and then was

00:43:06.260 taken elsewhere was

00:43:08.020 that well actually

00:43:09.120 there's a pretty

00:43:09.960 plausible standard

00:43:12.440 here that you know

00:43:13.400 maybe there wasn't

00:43:14.060 voter suppression and

00:43:15.320 the sort of old

00:43:16.340 republican coalition

00:43:18.000 just didn't like the

00:43:18.960 republicans after the

00:43:19.860 grant administration

00:43:20.700 you had the grant

00:43:23.020 administration and

00:43:23.760 the various civil

00:43:24.680 right administrations

00:43:25.660 in the south the

00:43:26.360 various republican

00:43:27.960 local administrations

00:43:29.120 they were also very

00:43:29.920 corrupt quite a few

00:43:31.880 of the because of

00:43:34.620 the way that they

00:43:35.080 got into the office

00:43:35.800 because they were

00:43:36.320 being so promoted

00:43:37.020 heavily by the GOP

00:43:38.320 and whatever else

00:43:39.100 quite a few of the

00:43:40.360 first black

00:43:41.080 administrations on

00:43:41.960 the state level

00:43:42.600 were exceedingly

00:43:43.920 corrupt very

00:43:44.480 nepotistic they had

00:43:45.940 quite a few

00:43:46.340 financial scandals

00:43:47.280 and a whole bunch

00:43:49.260 of other things

00:43:49.800 this created sort of

00:43:52.320 like a divide that

00:43:53.660 many of us have

00:43:54.300 with our own

00:43:54.760 politicians among

00:43:55.920 this once upon

00:43:58.220 time presumed

00:43:59.380 the homogenous

00:44:00.140 black voting

00:44:01.220 block where

00:44:02.620 there were

00:44:03.400 normal poor

00:44:04.780 black farmers

00:44:05.760 now that had

00:44:06.280 land and

00:44:07.580 their politicians

00:44:08.340 that were supposed

00:44:08.900 to be representing

00:44:09.580 them in whichever

00:44:11.180 state that they

00:44:11.760 were in are just

00:44:13.620 using the office

00:44:14.360 to get rich

00:44:14.960 promote their

00:44:15.380 family and friends

00:44:16.180 and then get out

00:44:16.940 of there as soon

00:44:17.400 as things hit the

00:44:18.000 fan that's not

00:44:19.320 what they want

00:44:19.820 that's not what

00:44:20.260 anyone really wants

00:44:21.140 unless you're on

00:44:22.240 the receiving end

00:44:22.840 of that patronage

00:44:24.620 so there is a

00:44:26.200 convincing argument

00:44:27.060 that you know

00:44:27.660 sure there was

00:44:29.300 racial conflicts

00:44:30.020 in these recorded

00:44:30.900 places but it's

00:44:32.700 also perfectly

00:44:33.420 plausible that the

00:44:34.640 vote just flipped

00:44:35.360 you know people can

00:44:36.380 only take so much

00:44:37.120 corruption at this

00:44:37.920 point in time

00:44:38.540 maybe modern media

00:44:40.060 has desensitized

00:44:40.980 us to the scale

00:44:42.480 and depravity of

00:44:44.120 our current

00:44:45.180 corruption

00:44:45.580 in the 1870s

00:44:47.060 this was a pretty

00:44:47.920 big thing

00:44:48.320 people were still

00:44:48.960 traditional

00:44:49.420 very religious

00:44:50.340 the black

00:44:51.400 communities in

00:44:51.960 particular

00:44:52.340 as Stephen

00:44:52.960 Carson and I

00:44:53.540 have been covering

00:44:54.020 on his channel

00:44:54.760 they were very

00:44:56.540 tight-knit

00:44:57.100 very independent

00:44:58.560 they had their

00:45:00.140 own mutual aid

00:45:01.020 societies

00:45:01.500 their own church

00:45:02.440 congregations

00:45:03.060 and whatever else

00:45:03.800 these aren't

00:45:05.620 exactly the type

00:45:06.420 of people that

00:45:07.180 just want to be

00:45:07.980 represented by

00:45:08.720 corrupt

00:45:09.380 nepotistic

00:45:10.960 philanderers

00:45:12.600 in some state

00:45:13.400 capital

00:45:13.860 perfectly possible

00:45:15.440 that they flipped

00:45:16.120 once again this

00:45:17.260 isn't for you or

00:45:18.000 I to make a

00:45:18.640 absolute verdict on

00:45:19.800 was there

00:45:20.260 enough voter

00:45:22.680 suppression to

00:45:23.580 invalidate the

00:45:24.440 state results

00:45:24.980 much less the

00:45:25.500 entire election

00:45:26.220 but the country

00:45:28.700 can't agree on it

00:45:29.520 and it takes

00:45:29.920 until 1877

00:45:31.480 if I remember

00:45:32.040 correctly to

00:45:32.600 actually come to

00:45:33.280 a conclusion

00:45:35.700 on any

00:45:37.260 meaningful scale

00:45:37.960 and you have

00:45:40.940 various militias

00:45:42.280 in the south

00:45:42.780 and if I remember

00:45:43.580 correctly I think

00:45:44.280 that there were

00:45:44.620 some in the north

00:45:45.320 threatening violence

00:45:46.200 if Tilton didn't

00:45:46.900 get the presidency

00:45:47.660 which is where

00:45:49.420 you get the

00:45:49.860 famous saying

00:45:50.340 Tilden or blood

00:45:51.140 you have the

00:45:52.200 famous political

00:45:52.840 hartoon with the

00:45:53.620 hand on the

00:45:54.160 table with the

00:45:54.680 Tilden ticket

00:45:55.280 and then a

00:45:55.660 revolver

00:45:56.120 very powerful

00:45:58.140 imagery

00:45:58.640 Tho Bishop

00:45:59.800 if anyone's

00:46:00.620 interested in

00:46:01.060 this specific

00:46:01.720 part of the

00:46:02.800 election in the

00:46:03.620 American history

00:46:04.280 Tho Bishop

00:46:05.180 of the

00:46:05.560 Ludwig von Mises

00:46:06.360 Institute

00:46:06.740 he's pretty

00:46:07.480 good on this

00:46:08.200 he gave a

00:46:08.700 lecture on it

00:46:09.860 I think a year

00:46:10.420 ago

00:46:10.700 goes into a

00:46:12.320 little bit more

00:46:12.720 detail than we

00:46:13.240 are now

00:46:13.640 but people were

00:46:14.980 getting violent

00:46:15.560 things had not

00:46:16.660 been going well

00:46:17.380 for the south

00:46:17.900 at all

00:46:18.200 they're having

00:46:18.620 the threat

00:46:19.660 of an election

00:46:20.220 being stolen

00:46:20.880 from them

00:46:21.420 for the first

00:46:21.900 time that they've

00:46:22.440 won back power

00:46:23.300 in a couple

00:46:24.560 of decades

00:46:25.140 so what happens

00:46:27.240 is party

00:46:28.080 representatives

00:46:28.740 from the GOP

00:46:29.800 and the

00:46:30.860 Democratic Party

00:46:31.640 meet together

00:46:32.800 behind closed

00:46:33.640 doors

00:46:34.060 not exaggerating

00:46:35.320 secret political

00:46:36.320 meeting

00:46:36.680 and they determine

00:46:38.180 who is going to

00:46:39.140 get the

00:46:39.920 presidency

00:46:40.360 we don't have

00:46:41.980 very much detail

00:46:42.980 exactly

00:46:43.540 on what

00:46:44.560 happened

00:46:45.000 here

00:46:45.260 it's a

00:46:47.380 closed door

00:46:47.760 meeting

00:46:48.060 that's

00:46:48.520 their nature

00:46:49.100 I wish

00:46:50.140 as a historian

00:46:50.720 that we did

00:46:51.220 but they

00:46:52.500 wouldn't happen

00:46:53.020 if people

00:46:53.460 just knew

00:46:53.820 what was

00:46:54.080 going on

00:46:54.600 turns out

00:46:55.180 the smoke

00:46:55.520 filled room

00:46:56.200 still had

00:46:56.660 a lot of

00:46:56.960 power there

00:46:57.480 yeah

00:46:58.000 and might

00:46:59.760 still to this

00:47:00.360 day if you

00:47:00.780 open your

00:47:01.120 eyes up

00:47:01.620 a little bit

00:47:02.240 so these

00:47:04.340 representatives

00:47:04.840 get in the

00:47:05.260 room

00:47:05.440 and Tilden

00:47:08.180 through one

00:47:08.960 means or

00:47:09.360 another

00:47:09.620 some say

00:47:10.420 he acquiesced

00:47:11.120 some say

00:47:11.540 he argued

00:47:12.360 it out

00:47:12.860 Tilden

00:47:14.640 eventually

00:47:15.020 ends up

00:47:15.600 conceding

00:47:16.800 despite the

00:47:17.300 fact he had

00:47:17.680 the popular

00:47:18.140 had a very

00:47:18.760 strong argument

00:47:19.640 for the

00:47:19.940 presidency

00:47:20.400 and he

00:47:21.780 gives the

00:47:22.260 presidency

00:47:22.720 to Hayes

00:47:23.260 he and his

00:47:23.760 representatives

00:47:24.200 give the

00:47:24.560 presidency

00:47:24.920 to Hayes

00:47:25.480 on four

00:47:26.340 conditions

00:47:26.880 and these

00:47:28.000 conditions

00:47:28.320 are that

00:47:28.840 Hayes

00:47:29.220 and the

00:47:29.420 GOP

00:47:29.880 must pull

00:47:31.220 troops out

00:47:31.680 of the

00:47:31.840 south

00:47:31.940 they have

00:47:32.220 to end

00:47:32.520 reconstruction

00:47:33.040 entirely

00:47:33.620 get the

00:47:34.000 military

00:47:34.320 administrations

00:47:34.980 out

00:47:35.260 they have

00:47:36.780 to help

00:47:37.640 industrialize

00:47:38.360 the south

00:47:38.680 through favorable

00:47:39.240 legislation

00:47:39.920 this is a

00:47:42.080 part of a

00:47:42.520 new south

00:47:43.040 policy

00:47:43.540 which is

00:47:43.960 anyone

00:47:44.680 that remembers

00:47:45.480 your american

00:47:45.860 history class

00:47:46.460 that was usually

00:47:46.940 like a vocab

00:47:47.740 word or something

00:47:48.340 in bold

00:47:48.720 you had to

00:47:49.060 remember what

00:47:49.560 the new south

00:47:50.120 was

00:47:50.480 well this is

00:47:51.580 that policy

00:47:52.240 being implemented

00:47:53.600 in some serious

00:47:54.500 way during this

00:47:55.100 corrupt bargain

00:47:56.480 or the

00:47:57.200 great bargain

00:47:58.700 or whatever you

00:47:59.200 want to call it

00:47:59.760 the compromise

00:48:00.460 of 1877

00:48:01.620 has a variety

00:48:03.180 of names

00:48:03.600 this is where

00:48:04.520 that starts

00:48:04.900 to get implemented

00:48:05.500 you also

00:48:06.580 have a

00:48:07.260 you have

00:48:09.360 a demand

00:48:10.040 that

00:48:10.460 Hayes

00:48:10.940 appoints

00:48:11.360 at least

00:48:11.720 one

00:48:12.260 democrat

00:48:12.940 I forget

00:48:13.400 if it was

00:48:13.940 explicitly

00:48:14.440 a southern

00:48:15.000 democrat

00:48:15.360 or not

00:48:15.820 to his

00:48:16.240 cabinet

00:48:16.620 so that

00:48:17.780 there's

00:48:17.960 some sort

00:48:18.340 of a

00:48:19.180 bipartisan

00:48:20.720 government

00:48:21.340 there

00:48:21.680 and then

00:48:22.760 you also

00:48:23.080 have the

00:48:23.440 demand

00:48:23.720 that a

00:48:24.240 railroad

00:48:24.520 be constructed

00:48:25.220 through the

00:48:25.720 south

00:48:25.900 across the

00:48:26.400 continent

00:48:26.680 so this

00:48:27.140 is where

00:48:27.340 you get

00:48:27.580 your

00:48:27.740 texas

00:48:28.280 to

00:48:28.540 pacific

00:48:29.140 transcontinental

00:48:30.660 railroad

00:48:31.080 line

00:48:31.840 that was

00:48:33.040 the terms

00:48:33.540 Tilton

00:48:34.280 gave up

00:48:34.720 the

00:48:34.840 presidency

00:48:35.500 wasn't

00:48:36.640 going to

00:48:36.960 fight

00:48:37.160 it

00:48:37.280 wasn't

00:48:37.520 going to

00:48:37.820 raise

00:48:38.020 up

00:48:38.180 militia

00:48:38.560 and cross

00:48:38.920 the

00:48:39.080 rubicon

00:48:39.560 or any

00:48:40.160 of this

00:48:40.420 other

00:48:40.680 grand

00:48:41.280 ambitious

00:48:41.660 plans

00:48:42.160 he gave

00:48:43.180 it up

00:48:43.420 on those

00:48:43.720 four points

00:48:44.340 and

00:48:45.120 Rutherford B.

00:48:46.060 Hayes

00:48:46.380 quite famously

00:48:47.920 or infamously

00:48:48.600 depending on

00:48:49.160 who you are

00:48:49.680 pulled the

00:48:50.700 troops out

00:48:51.120 of the

00:48:51.300 south

00:48:51.580 most of

00:48:52.580 the south

00:48:52.820 reverted

00:48:53.160 to a

00:48:53.520 very strong

00:48:54.300 democratic

00:48:54.840 party

00:48:55.340 stronghold

00:48:56.740 afterwards

00:48:57.520 people will

00:48:58.400 say this

00:48:58.760 is obviously

00:48:59.560 proof of

00:49:00.060 voter suppression

00:49:00.700 other people

00:49:02.000 will have

00:49:02.300 various

00:49:02.580 counters to

00:49:03.120 that

00:49:03.320 like the

00:49:03.660 one that

00:49:03.880 I just

00:49:04.140 gave

00:49:04.380 you

00:49:04.840 that's

00:49:05.720 what

00:49:05.820 happens

00:49:06.200 as a

00:49:06.540 sort of

00:49:06.800 long-term

00:49:07.180 consequence

00:49:07.700 and it

00:49:08.080 will

00:49:08.260 carry on

00:49:09.160 up until

00:49:09.760 about the

00:49:10.200 1960s or

00:49:11.180 so whenever

00:49:11.600 they start

00:49:12.060 to flip

00:49:12.360 red

00:49:12.680 after the

00:49:14.020 new deal

00:49:14.420 coalition

00:49:14.960 and its

00:49:15.620 southern

00:49:15.860 democratic

00:49:16.320 accomplices

00:49:16.960 start to

00:49:17.920 lose

00:49:18.040 popularity

00:49:18.560 so this

00:49:19.340 lasts for a

00:49:19.800 long time

00:49:20.280 almost a hundred

00:49:20.900 years the

00:49:21.300 consequences

00:49:21.860 of this

00:49:22.340 you get

00:49:23.460 your

00:49:23.720 transcontinental

00:49:24.720 railroad

00:49:25.040 if I remember

00:49:25.580 correctly

00:49:25.940 in some

00:49:26.320 capacity

00:49:26.800 I know

00:49:28.080 there's a

00:49:28.400 story there

00:49:28.780 I think

00:49:29.040 that there

00:49:29.280 are a bunch

00:49:29.580 of delays

00:49:30.020 and political

00:49:30.720 battles over

00:49:31.400 it but

00:49:31.800 you eventually

00:49:32.860 do get

00:49:33.320 major

00:49:33.660 railroad

00:49:34.000 lines going

00:49:34.680 through the

00:49:35.060 south

00:49:35.380 though nowhere

00:49:36.760 near the

00:49:37.180 north

00:49:37.480 in fact

00:49:38.060 that's a

00:49:38.460 talking point

00:49:39.720 during the

00:49:40.300 68 election

00:49:41.440 when you had

00:49:42.220 George Wallace

00:49:42.760 running as a

00:49:43.840 sort of a

00:49:44.620 southern more

00:49:46.220 law and order

00:49:47.640 nationalistic type

00:49:48.660 candidate

00:49:49.020 he would make

00:49:50.880 great emphasis

00:49:51.680 on television

00:49:52.960 shows

00:49:53.540 Buckley's

00:49:54.540 firing line

00:49:55.060 and whatever

00:49:55.380 else that the

00:49:55.980 south had been

00:49:56.600 suppressed

00:49:57.400 ever since the

00:49:58.380 end of the

00:49:58.680 civil war

00:49:59.180 because the

00:50:00.460 federal government

00:50:01.360 would prevent

00:50:01.960 railroads and

00:50:03.060 industries and

00:50:03.800 whoever else

00:50:04.280 from building

00:50:04.660 there and

00:50:05.420 then the

00:50:05.660 railroads that

00:50:06.160 did build

00:50:06.560 there would

00:50:07.100 sort of

00:50:07.700 cartelize

00:50:08.340 form a

00:50:08.900 cartel

00:50:09.340 and charge

00:50:11.000 fares into

00:50:12.160 the south

00:50:12.560 so to keep

00:50:13.080 them keep

00:50:14.000 things deliberately

00:50:14.580 expensive to

00:50:15.280 ship in and

00:50:15.760 out of the

00:50:16.140 south so

00:50:16.700 that all

00:50:17.800 dates back

00:50:18.240 to here

00:50:18.640 the political

00:50:20.660 appointee I

00:50:21.240 think was like

00:50:21.660 the postmaster

00:50:22.300 general or

00:50:22.880 something like

00:50:23.300 that a very

00:50:24.320 dog catcher

00:50:25.120 yeah yeah

00:50:26.120 right yeah

00:50:26.620 so their

00:50:27.920 southern democratic

00:50:28.680 appointee did

00:50:30.100 not get very

00:50:30.940 much political

00:50:31.880 power granted

00:50:33.120 the postmaster

00:50:33.800 general had a

00:50:34.420 little bit more

00:50:35.140 like real hard

00:50:36.280 power not hard

00:50:37.080 power but like

00:50:37.620 real tangible

00:50:38.380 power at that

00:50:39.060 point in time

00:50:39.740 because post is

00:50:41.520 how things will

00:50:42.300 get transmitted

00:50:42.880 if not by

00:50:43.460 telegraph which

00:50:44.740 even then the

00:50:45.300 postmaster had

00:50:47.640 regulatory

00:50:48.100 capabilities over

00:50:49.140 so you know

00:50:49.960 it's important

00:50:50.680 but it's not

00:50:51.540 the secretary of

00:50:52.560 state or the

00:50:53.700 treasury or of

00:50:54.640 war or any of

00:50:56.120 the major

00:50:56.480 departments so

00:50:57.560 they got

00:50:58.920 something there

00:50:59.700 and then the

00:51:01.660 legislation to

00:51:03.120 help industrialize

00:51:04.280 the south kind

00:51:05.180 of happens but

00:51:06.460 it's kind of

00:51:06.900 presented to the

00:51:07.500 south as a

00:51:08.280 the federal

00:51:09.260 government will

00:51:09.840 push you along

00:51:10.480 but then the

00:51:10.860 states are going

00:51:11.260 to have to pull

00:51:11.940 the majority of

00:51:12.560 the way using

00:51:13.100 their own

00:51:13.460 budgets this

00:51:14.880 will lead to

00:51:15.500 the democratic

00:51:16.040 party becoming

00:51:17.440 very fiscally

00:51:18.720 conservative almost

00:51:20.160 libertarian because

00:51:21.980 this sort of a

00:51:23.620 state subsidized

00:51:25.000 industrialization

00:51:25.880 doesn't work as

00:51:27.280 well as it was

00:51:27.800 promised and

00:51:29.240 there's a lot of

00:51:29.800 waste that gets

00:51:30.360 publicized people

00:51:31.760 don't like that

00:51:32.420 especially poor

00:51:33.260 white and black

00:51:34.220 farmers they don't

00:51:35.620 like seeing that

00:51:36.260 city people are

00:51:37.240 taxing them and

00:51:38.880 then frivolously

00:51:40.240 spending that money

00:51:41.060 nominally to

00:51:41.860 industrialize their

00:51:42.780 state so that has

00:51:44.760 ramifications on the

00:51:45.680 democratic party

00:51:46.420 samuel tilden also

00:51:48.480 himself has an

00:51:50.000 effect on the

00:51:50.680 democratic party going

00:51:51.620 forward he was a

00:51:53.140 protege of martin

00:51:54.320 van buren andrew

00:51:56.400 jackson's running

00:51:57.040 mate very strong

00:51:59.460 hard money advocate

00:52:00.400 gold standard i

00:52:02.240 don't remember if

00:52:02.760 he was entirely free

00:52:03.740 trade or if he was

00:52:04.740 somewhere in the

00:52:05.120 middle i think he

00:52:05.720 was though sort of

00:52:07.080 like a traditional

00:52:08.880 economics have sound

00:52:10.920 money be able to

00:52:12.080 trade with people and

00:52:12.880 you'll be prosperous

00:52:13.860 very much opposed to

00:52:15.320 the northern protector

00:52:16.660 industry nurture them

00:52:18.160 and make sure they can

00:52:19.240 out compete other

00:52:19.840 countries tilden sort

00:52:21.560 of re-emphasizes that

00:52:22.960 within the democratic

00:52:23.780 party after they had

00:52:25.500 nominated horace

00:52:26.320 greeley who was a

00:52:27.100 strong protectionist

00:52:28.400 very much in that

00:52:30.000 wig republican

00:52:30.940 camping as he

00:52:31.840 himself was a wig

00:52:32.760 so the democratic

00:52:34.880 party going forward

00:52:35.800 will start emphasizing

00:52:36.740 those things the

00:52:37.480 republican party in

00:52:38.500 contrast will become

00:52:39.320 much more

00:52:39.680 protectionist much

00:52:41.060 more industrial

00:52:41.540 focused has much

00:52:43.200 greater ramifications

00:52:44.540 whenever william

00:52:45.300 mckinley is the

00:52:46.260 nominee in the

00:52:47.760 1900s eventually

00:52:49.340 getting shot and

00:52:51.700 leading to the

00:52:52.180 progressives having

00:52:52.960 their first presidency

00:52:53.800 with roosevelt and

00:52:55.040 then the two that

00:52:55.800 came after him so

00:52:56.620 this one election

00:52:58.000 obviously has a lot

00:52:59.920 of modern political

00:53:01.460 tie-ins disputing

00:53:03.840 corrupt bargains you

00:53:05.800 have voter suppression

00:53:06.820 supposedly civil rights

00:53:08.120 regimes that have been

00:53:08.820 propped up to either

00:53:10.280 artificially or

00:53:11.420 righteously get the

00:53:13.400 correct people to the

00:53:14.180 polls but then you

00:53:16.080 also have actual

00:53:17.120 historical consequences

00:53:18.280 like the character of

00:53:19.740 the two parties going

00:53:20.540 forward you know

00:53:22.420 indirectly planting the

00:53:23.500 seeds for the start

00:53:24.520 of the progressive

00:53:25.060 era through a complete

00:53:26.280 accident very important

00:53:28.360 part of american

00:53:29.000 history that gets

00:53:29.700 skipped over the

00:53:30.320 textbooks absolutely

00:53:32.180 and yeah that's why i

00:53:33.260 wanted to have you on

00:53:34.480 today to talk about it

00:53:35.360 because again i feel like

00:53:36.460 this is something that

00:53:37.680 basically no one learns

00:53:38.920 about every even most

00:53:40.400 most textbooks just skip

00:53:41.680 over and they look at

00:53:43.420 the events of today and

00:53:44.740 they say oh these are

00:53:45.540 unique this is something

00:53:46.440 we've never seen before

00:53:47.480 this is you know the

00:53:48.620 american a time of

00:53:49.700 crisis that that's

00:53:50.760 never seen before now

00:53:51.800 obviously we are talking

00:53:52.700 about a time of serious

00:53:53.620 american crisis right

00:53:54.780 it's right after the

00:53:55.560 civil war like we said

00:53:56.640 many people asked was

00:53:57.940 was this going to be the

00:53:58.820 end of the united

00:53:59.300 states with this kind of

00:54:00.880 electoral uh you know

00:54:02.260 kind of question being

00:54:03.380 thrown into the middle

00:54:04.420 of things uh this close

00:54:06.020 to a separation of the

00:54:07.100 union and a clash of uh

00:54:08.780 the states so obviously

00:54:10.520 being compared to this

00:54:11.580 time isn't great for our

00:54:12.640 time either uh but but

00:54:14.260 but it does let us know

00:54:15.340 that this is not the only

00:54:16.240 time that the country is

00:54:17.440 faced something like

00:54:18.320 this there is precedent

00:54:19.660 for this kind of thing

00:54:20.580 and so i think it is

00:54:21.440 really important to

00:54:22.140 understand uh these

00:54:23.340 these pieces of lost

00:54:24.500 history so uh ryan i

00:54:26.120 really want to thank you

00:54:26.900 for coming on is there

00:54:28.100 anything that people

00:54:29.040 should be checking out

00:54:30.040 you got anything coming

00:54:30.900 up i know you've been

00:54:31.920 a little busy but i

00:54:32.720 didn't know if there's

00:54:33.440 anything that you want

00:54:34.140 to let people know

00:54:34.780 about oh well uh thank

00:54:36.220 you very much for having

00:54:37.160 me on it's always a

00:54:38.020 pleasure to actually talk

00:54:38.940 about just the the

00:54:39.980 history of things and

00:54:41.000 uh that's genuinely my

00:54:43.680 favorite interest but um

00:54:45.200 as for my stuff um you

00:54:46.880 can find me uh on youtube

00:54:48.880 uh under the name ryan

00:54:50.260 turnip seed there's a

00:54:51.060 channel there i have a

00:54:52.240 few interviews and

00:54:52.880 discussions with people

00:54:53.620 that go a little bit

00:54:54.840 long for some people's

00:54:56.220 tastes but um covering

00:54:57.580 also uh world history

00:54:59.220 topics as well as united

00:55:00.280 states history topics

00:55:01.400 some religious and

00:55:02.760 cultural uh issues as

00:55:04.740 well um ryan turnip

00:55:06.420 seed on youtube and

00:55:07.160 then you can find me on

00:55:08.060 twitter or x i guess as

00:55:09.760 it's called now uh that

00:55:11.200 might be a good stream for

00:55:12.080 some people to revisit

00:55:12.880 see how accurate things

00:55:13.840 were was the uh prediction

00:55:14.800 stream that we had on

00:55:15.740 here a while ago um you

00:55:17.400 can find me on twitter or

00:55:18.440 x uh at turnip merchant uh

00:55:21.340 all one word uh also just

00:55:23.280 my username is my real

00:55:24.880 name so ryan turnip

00:55:25.800 seed uh surprisingly in

00:55:27.800 dispute for some groups

00:55:29.040 of people um you can find

00:55:31.100 me there um and typically

00:55:33.540 if you reach out to me i

00:55:34.500 will uh talk to you so

00:55:35.600 long as you aren't just

00:55:36.460 uh openly indirectly

00:55:37.900 insulting me for no reason

00:55:39.080 i've had that happen a few

00:55:40.100 times before keep the door

00:55:41.640 open anyways um and

00:55:43.700 besides that you can also

00:55:44.620 find a few of my articles

00:55:45.660 uh being put on mises.org

00:55:48.260 and blue rockwell.com now

00:55:49.940 so i have a few pieces

00:55:51.280 over there uh that's where

00:55:52.580 you can find the majority

00:55:53.340 of my stuff if anyone's

00:55:54.560 interested fantastic yeah

00:55:56.420 make sure you're checking

00:55:57.200 out ryan's work and of

00:55:58.780 course if this is your

00:55:59.640 first time on this channel

00:56:01.500 make sure that you go

00:56:02.200 ahead and subscribe if

00:56:03.460 you'd like to get these

00:56:04.120 broadcasts as podcasts make

00:56:06.040 sure that you go ahead and

00:56:07.380 follow the orn mcintyre

00:56:08.480 show on your favorite

00:56:09.400 podcast platform when you

00:56:12.360 do go ahead and leave a

00:56:13.480 rating or review it really

00:56:14.660 helps with the algorithm

00:56:15.840 uh so guys tomorrow is

00:56:17.640 supposed to be the

00:56:18.600 republican uh kind of uh

00:56:21.280 uh there's the

00:56:22.280 republican debate here i

00:56:23.800 don't know what's going

00:56:24.300 to happen kind of after

00:56:25.400 after the tucker carlson

00:56:27.200 interviews i feel like

00:56:28.080 that's that's the best

00:56:29.000 you're going to get

00:56:29.660 after uh you know as

00:56:31.840 opposed to a normal

00:56:32.480 presidential primary

00:56:33.640 debate you're going to

00:56:34.800 have eight nine guys

00:56:35.780 standing on stage fighting

00:56:37.560 for the same soundbite

00:56:38.800 but either way uh we'll

00:56:40.540 we'll be commenting on it

00:56:41.700 over at the blaze uh i'll

00:56:43.080 be on the blaze tv

00:56:44.080 joining the live chat

00:56:45.200 talking about that so if

00:56:46.760 you want to check that

00:56:47.440 out you can make sure to

00:56:48.440 do so thanks for coming

00:56:49.760 by guys and as always i

00:56:51.200 will talk to you next

00:56:52.940 time

00:56:53.300 you

00:56:55.300 you

00:57:05.820 you

00:57:06.000 you

00:57:06.580 you

00:57:15.760 you

The Auron MacIntyre Show - August 22, 2023

1876： America's Most Disputed Election ｜ Guest： Ryan Turnipseed ｜ 8⧸22⧸23

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