The Auron MacIntyre Show - A Country for Me but Not for Thee ｜ Guest： Carl Benjamin ｜ 8⧸21⧸26

00:00:00.000 hey everybody how's it going thanks for joining me this afternoon i've got a great stream with

00:00:12.740 a great guest that i think you're really going to enjoy a lot of people in the west have been

00:00:18.080 trying to address the issue of nationalism what does it mean to be an independent nation a people

00:00:23.180 who have a destiny that you have to decide together what are the different types of

00:00:28.040 identity that should exist in the West, how should we view ourselves, and how does that allow us to

00:00:32.880 include or exclude people through things like immigration control? This has been an ongoing

00:00:38.740 debate, but one of the things that has really repeatedly caused a problem is the idea of whether

00:00:44.460 a nation is somehow entirely propositional, built only on civic identity, or is it somehow deeper

00:00:51.900 than that? Is there a more rich and traditional understanding of nations that can help us

00:00:56.800 better facilitate this transition into a world where we have to identify our nations as sovereign

00:01:03.040 entities. Joining me today to discuss that is my friend from the UK, Carl Benjamin. Thank you so

00:01:08.020 much for coming on, man. Always a pleasure. So Melanie Phillips recently came out with a

00:01:15.700 post on social media addressing the question of British identity. Now, I know I've had several

00:01:23.480 people uh some of your colleagues from the lotus eaters on to discuss the idea of an english or 0.56

00:01:29.340 british identity what would be the difference how could one be civic or one could be ethnic how

00:01:34.080 these things could you know interweave with each other this has been an ongoing debate in the uk

00:01:39.060 for a while now and so her putting her toe in the water on this is unsurprising it's kind of at the

00:01:45.700 heart i think of much of what british politics has evolved into at this moment are the british

00:01:50.600 people a distinct people who are worthy of being protected who have the right to defend their

00:01:55.880 identity as they see it and choose who enters their country or are there some kind of abstract

00:02:01.320 set of principles that define Britain and anyone who kind of adopts those principles can ultimately

00:02:07.880 enter into this situation now Melanie Phillips gave a very interesting response to that and

00:02:13.420 we'll get to the text of it in a second because it's definitely worth reading out loud but before

00:02:17.580 we do most people are probably not familiar in the united states with melanie phillips who is

00:02:22.000 she what's her background um melanie phillips is a um jewish israeli uh writer um journalist

00:02:31.540 i think she's probably done other things as well but actually i i don't i don't know what she did

00:02:37.820 she's quite old now she's been around for a long time and she's become kind of like a part of the

00:02:42.940 furniture in a way you know she she's um always popping up on the times or the guardian or the

00:02:49.800 telegraph wherever to and almost explicitly in fact i can't ever recall reading anything from her

00:02:56.940 that wasn't about a kind of jewish ethnic interest uh that's all she seems to write about that's all

00:03:04.640 she seems to talk about and you'll see all over the internet loads of clips of her talking about

00:03:08.940 this in various conferences on various panels and she writes about it non-stop it seems to be her

00:03:14.500 sole interest now i'm not judging on that because you know i write about british and english identity

00:03:18.700 quite often myself it's not my sole interest but i write about quite a lot but for her this this is

00:03:25.120 um almost like being on the sort of front lines of defense for her ethnicity which again i don't

00:03:32.920 even begrudge but i am very annoyed that uh she as she annexes to herself a certain set of

00:03:41.240 principles to which the rest of us are just not allowed through um a quirk of historical

00:03:46.960 circumstance that i don't even think is as unique as she claims anyway but i'm sure we'll get into

00:03:52.760 that so it's interesting because obviously you see that from what is i guess kind of a semi

00:03:58.540 right you know like moderately right conservative commentator i'm always forgetting her name but 0.97

00:04:05.640 who's that other woman who in the uk uh who is a leftist like a like a communist but she

00:04:12.720 is kind of like pro the right now because it's uh fashionable like they're pro israel like

00:04:18.880 umba sokar or something like that i'm trying to remember ash sarkar probably probably ash sarkar

00:04:26.960 works for an independent media organization called novara media um she's not pro the right

00:04:32.420 she's still very much a communist but i'm i might be thinking of someone else

00:04:36.900 okay your description actually uh doesn't narrow it down all that much sorry i guess my i guess my

00:04:45.000 my larger point with that is to say either left or right it doesn't seem to matter the commentators

00:04:51.620 will often pivot when israel's existence is kind of their first issue right ultimately uh someone

00:04:58.040 will even though they generally hate the right will suddenly find some common cause when it comes

00:05:03.900 to the state of israel and we see this in the united states as well i was uh on a on jenna

00:05:08.980 ellis's talk show in the united states and uh you know she's very pro-israel but she kind of asked

00:05:15.200 me point blank on air why do we see so many of these kind of pro-israel commentators seem to be

00:05:21.080 more interested in israel's well-being in the united states and it's kind of uh okay uh we'll

00:05:26.660 we'll answer that question carefully uh however you know there there is a particular strain of

00:05:34.100 my point is whatever side of the pond you're on and whatever side of the political aisle you're on

00:05:39.240 there is a certain type of political commentator who does like 50 of their commentary on the host

00:05:45.020 country where they are doing their work but then the other person seems almost entirely dedicated

00:05:50.060 to israel the existence of israel some kind of news that's going on israel that otherwise would

00:05:54.660 have no bearing on the uk or the united states that somehow has become some kind of dominant

00:05:59.560 issue inside the news cycle because there is this commentary at class that always seems to be

00:06:04.320 raising the profile of these stories no matter what's going on you know weirdly enough i actually

00:06:09.460 think that this is now confined to the center right um it seems that the left has actually

00:06:13.940 done quite a good job of expunging any pro-israel feeling from their own ranks i saw american

00:06:20.760 democrats apparently 80 against israel now which if you went back 20 years you would have been you

00:06:26.900 know 80 for israel in exactly the way you were describing um and it's the same thing over here

00:06:32.320 the labor party isn't um expressly anti-israel but their activist base is and so they realize

00:06:40.920 if they say anything pro-israel they fall completely afoul of their own activist base

00:06:45.160 and it's just a quagmire you don't want to get stuck in um and on the right um in britain

00:06:50.720 you have the kind of restore britain position which is we don't care that's just a foreign

00:06:56.380 country you have the reform and the conservative position which is we love israel with every bone

00:07:02.540 in our body and we will defend israel and jump to attention to whatever wars they want to drag

00:07:07.640 into whatever it is the second that they do and this was kemi badenock and nigel farage's response

00:07:12.760 to the iran war for example uh trump said oh israel's dragging the storm for the run and they

00:07:17.340 were like yep we've got to go and it was rupert lowe who was the first saying not not on not in

00:07:21.980 our interest why would we do this and everyone was like oh that's a good point actually maybe

00:07:26.860 it's not a great idea to start a unilateral war with iran over really trivial nonsense in the

00:07:32.320 least and so i mean obviously it happened and we are where we are but the the the actual um and i

00:07:38.720 think we're seeing this in america too it's actually a faction of the republicans who at

00:07:43.500 this point look a bit out like they look a bit under siege right they look like they're in the

00:07:48.820 top of their ivory town because they've got all the money they've got the influence they've got 1.00

00:07:51.320 all the positions but there's clearly a horde of grupers that are besieging their position 1.00

00:07:56.920 and so i think that they're feeling a bit isolated at this point i think they're feeling a bit under 0.99

00:08:04.480 attack oh no i think that's certainly true i think that's kind of while why we are seeing much of

00:08:09.980 behavior we are currently seeing uh because uh they feel so desperate they feel that they are

00:08:15.620 losing their grip and because they don't see a kind of way forward uh through the current political

00:08:22.000 framing they're running around trying to basically just shout down anybody who's raising any of these

00:08:27.820 issues because that's kind of all they have left at the moment i as always you know you and i were

00:08:33.480 discussing this beforehand but it's like i have no particular interest in discussing israel or any of

00:08:38.760 this i would rather have never had to discuss this at all but as we're going to see from the post

00:08:43.980 which we'll we'll go over in a moment unfortunately i keep running into this argument this direct

00:08:48.520 argument like the one Melanie Phillips made and until that argument goes away and until I have

00:08:54.500 people in my government who will stop running to kind of do whatever military action currently

00:09:00.540 benefits Israel I have no other option but to discuss this like this is just the future of my

00:09:05.440 country it's the health of my country there is no political project moving forward until I can 1.00

00:09:09.680 remove this foreign influence that clearly has a deleterious effect on the nation that I care about 1.00

00:09:16.080 outside of that i don't care at all israel can do whatever it wants it can you know behave however 0.97

00:09:21.180 it wants i really really genuinely would not care if it were not this direct influence that makes

00:09:27.000 the ability to have a nation over on this side of the world you know so difficult i completely

00:09:33.680 concur with this position i mean like um well i'm the same as you in fact you know i i was never

00:09:39.520 someone who hated jews i'm not someone who cares about israel i've not got any connections there

00:09:45.800 i've never been there i've got no particular interest in going there you know i'm sure it's

00:09:49.280 a nice mediterranean country but to me it's just a foreign land there's i'm no more interested in

00:09:54.820 it than i am tajikistan or paraguay or something right exactly there's no fascination for me

00:10:00.240 and it being such a primary issue in our domestic politics is weird and as you say the fact that it

00:10:10.780 seems to be or its advocates are putting themselves in the way of us having what israel has for

00:10:17.260 itself which is a nation state that is primarily for the jewish people if we can't have a western

00:10:24.320 an english british state or an american state that is primarily for the british and american people

00:10:28.900 well some explaining has to be done as to why they are allowed it and we are not

00:10:33.660 and that's what melanie phillips tries to do here so i guess we'll go ahead and take a look at this

00:10:40.060 Now, I mean, this is a whole lot of don't say the quiet part out loud, right?

00:10:44.380 Like, that really is a lot of what's happening here.

00:10:48.220 Usually, you know, this is an attitude that you understand is kind of operating in the background, but she makes it really plain.

00:10:54.180 So I'll just kind of read it out here so we can go through it.

00:10:57.600 This is very muddled. 0.68

00:10:58.900 British identity is civic and not ethnic. 0.97

00:11:02.100 It is totally different from Jewish identity, which is ethnic, religious, and cultural. 0.95

00:11:06.940 Can I just pause on that? 0.81

00:11:08.520 Can I just pause on that?

00:11:09.120 that's interesting because nobody debates that right nobody debates there is no british ethnic

00:11:16.180 group there are four ethnic groups that make up the british people the english scottish irish and

00:11:21.760 welsh and so the british identity she is correct it is a civic identity it's a state the united

00:11:28.200 kingdom of great britain and now northern ireland um so that that is correct but why would you

00:11:35.940 juxtapose that with the jewish ethnic identity why wouldn't you juxtapose the english ethnic

00:11:41.360 identity with the jewish ethnic identity so for example she goes on to use the example of israel

00:11:46.440 having an arab and a jewish population it's like yes so the israeli identity is a civic identity

00:11:52.600 that is based on these two ethnic groups that's completely complementors it makes perfect sense

00:11:58.440 why would you begin like this and i don't think she's doing it necessarily maliciously i mean i

00:12:04.720 just don't know if she's their best and brightest but sorry well i i don't think it's malicious but

00:12:10.320 i do think it reveals something we might as well just stop and comment as we go through because

00:12:14.480 there is a lot to unpack here um i i do think that there is actually hidden in that admission

00:12:20.240 something critical which is that um what the collective jewish ethnic identity in israel

00:12:28.600 lets them do is exclude others from that identity yes as she'll go on and talk about in later

00:12:35.040 paragraphs there are arab and other uh you know residents of israel they technically have civil

00:12:41.900 rights in the sense that they are under the auspices of the nation they are subject to the

00:12:47.800 jurisdiction thereof for 14th amendment fans in the united states uh however that does not make

00:12:53.220 them part of the jewish nation they are part of israel the civic project they are not part of

00:13:00.020 the jewish nation and she says specifically we'll get there in a second that they cannot

00:13:03.840 participate in the collective determination determination of that identity because they

00:13:10.340 are excluded she's aware of this that is the point draws it that is the point at which she

00:13:17.240 will not permit national self-determination and i mean and it's it's really not a big ask either

00:13:24.940 it's really not a big ask well i think it is for her because the implication here is

00:13:31.320 if you were allowed to make this determination she could be like the arab resident of israel

00:13:37.400 she could be that version of a british person where she's subject to the jurisdiction thereof

00:13:44.780 she is under the legal auspices of the civic identity but she is not english or she's not

00:13:51.720 even collectively perhaps british in the sense that she came from the original four tribes kingdoms

00:13:57.040 of uh of the uk and so you know what's very interesting about this is that she actually

00:14:02.960 lives in israel even better even better yeah i don't even know what she'd be losing she doesn't

00:14:10.580 even have anything to lose from this well but even if it's not her personally she understands

00:14:15.540 the implications for other parts of the jewish diaspora right because this is a huge part of the

00:14:21.980 issue of of previous iterations of jewish diaspora they had no nation to call their own and so they

00:14:26.840 needed to have some level of identity and incorporation into the nations they were a part

00:14:33.500 of in fact many of the anti-zionist jews argued against the creation of the nation of israel

00:14:39.400 for this very reason because they wanted to be assimilated they wanted to be proper uh citizens

00:14:46.080 of you know britain or the united states or whatever they were part of they did not want

00:14:50.500 the possible accusation of some kind of dual loyalty of some kind of split identity they

00:14:55.420 didn't want to be blamed for the operations of a nation or a state that ultimately would maybe do

00:15:01.180 bad things you know on their behalf they wanted to be identified as british or as american or as

00:15:07.480 whatever they did not want to primarily be identified as a separate jewish or israeli

00:15:14.400 citizen or member of that ethnic tribe and so they were worried that the creation of israel

00:15:19.280 would create that dichotomy and i think that is her concern here is that even post the creation

00:15:25.660 of israel the creation of the possibility of exclusive identities in the west could push

00:15:31.860 jewish diaspora figures outside of israel into this space where they are again part of the civic

00:15:38.440 identity but not considered part of the nation itself no you're absolutely correct um there's

00:15:45.440 there's a there's a deeper issue with this as well which is the united kingdom has come uh very close

00:15:54.940 to breaking apart uh in recent years there was scottish independence referendum in 2014 i think

00:16:01.100 it was uh which was only 45 uh yes and 55 no on a bit of a knife edge as these things go a five

00:16:09.680 point six point swing would have meant that there was no british civic identity and we would have

00:16:16.120 become the kingdom of england and wales again right so this would have been a purely ethnic state

00:16:22.480 and then they would have had to have demanded that we were they were as english as we are

00:16:28.980 they would demand access to our ethnic group on the grounds that our political state is also the

00:16:35.880 ethnic state of the english and the welsh rather than just the abstract british state because i

00:16:41.440 mean i i can i can go as far as to concede that yes the british civic identity even though it

00:16:47.320 came from four particular identities did go around the world there were a lot of people who felt a

00:16:54.300 lot of loyalty to the british uh the british identity the british empire and they worked

00:17:00.000 for the british empire and they i mean for generations generations there were indians

00:17:04.820 in africa for generations there were uh brits in uh india and various other places so it you can

00:17:11.740 make a persuasive argument that the british civic identity is actually very broad um okay that's

00:17:19.380 fine. But you can't make the same argument that the particular ethnic identities are very broad

00:17:25.720 of the United Kingdom. They're not. They're actually exactly as exclusionary as Melanie

00:17:31.500 Phillips is with her defining the boundaries of Jewish identity in Israel. It's the same with

00:17:37.960 being English, Welsh, Scottish, and Irish. Yeah, I think it's very obvious, again, that most

00:17:45.920 nations are allowed to, as the phrase goes, live historically. They're allowed to recognize

00:17:51.220 themselves as a continuation of a people, a tradition, a religion, a way of being that is

00:17:58.060 worth protecting, that is worth securing. And it is really only European identities specifically 0.69

00:18:04.700 that have been required to undergo this transformation. I find the claim that the

00:18:11.300 united states is entirely a civic identity to be false but at the very least i can understand how

00:18:17.020 it is constructed i get the narrative that you know we came over from the uk and even though

00:18:22.540 ultimately you know the american founders were fighting for the rights as englishmen uh you know

00:18:27.800 that that identity over time has included the incorporations of a pan-european population and

00:18:33.720 you know there is some truth of assimilation and growth of the american identity that does not exist

00:18:38.800 for the uk but it's not that is not the history of the united kingdom this is uh where the english

00:18:44.600 come from if there is any basic uh you know uh right to a ethnic identity if that exists in any

00:18:52.000 way shape or form it most certainly exists for the english and so the only way that you can deny it

00:18:57.720 to the english is by presenting this ridiculous double standard there is no logically consistent

00:19:03.160 or morally consistent way to frame this to where you can pretend that the English are not an

00:19:09.020 ethnicity in the same way that people will try to do with Americans yeah I mean the English is just

00:19:14.740 one of the best attested ethnicities historically we know exactly how the English came into being

00:19:21.880 we know exactly how the the the kingdom of England was formed and in what circumstances

00:19:27.540 in the exact year that it's it's not like um the like i mean the good example is always the maori

00:19:35.180 in new zealand right at some point in the 14th century it seems they arrived there you know 300

00:19:40.720 years after the founding of oxford university um but there's there's no accurate record of that

00:19:47.040 time period it's just archaeology would suggest that's the case um unlike them we have historical

00:19:53.940 written records going back about 700 years prior to that so it's it's one of those things where

00:20:00.420 you you just wouldn't be able to contest the existence of the english as a people

00:20:06.580 in good faith that just can't be done in the same way you can't really contest the existence of

00:20:11.720 jewish people as a people in good faith of course very well attested as well like no no one no one

00:20:16.640 is questioning this um well they shouldn't be questioning this um but there's there's something

00:20:21.820 there's something interesting here which is our conception of um democracy in particular i think

00:20:29.340 because in previous eras prior to democracy these questions didn't really come up because

00:20:35.500 political suffrage just wasn't an issue um anyone who had political power or political rights

00:20:42.200 had them by virtue of heredity or by virtue of physical force as in you were a baron you were

00:20:50.040 rebel you had an army you had um entitlements that were given to you from the king i mean the

00:20:55.720 jews in england in fact were under the protection of the king and therefore they had certain

00:21:01.520 entitlements certain rights and certain privileges to work in certain areas of the economy that other

00:21:07.900 people either weren't allowed or didn't want to work in and they were forbidden working in others

00:21:11.860 so the the idea that they needed to say a thousand years ago oh yeah we're english of course they

00:21:18.780 didn't there was absolutely no need well nearly a thousand years they came over with the normans

00:21:22.780 um but there would be no need in fact if they were to do that that would be to lose the special

00:21:29.040 status they would be granted by the king it's only in the mass democracy the homogenizing democracy

00:21:36.020 that has to view everything in the same category to give it the same status and rights that this

00:21:42.260 becomes an issue and this is why the same effect this resistance towards the liberal blender of

00:21:51.360 identity is present everywhere you get the the question about the germans and the new germans

00:21:55.980 the swedes and the new swedes what is an american what is a canadian it's it's happening everywhere

00:22:00.940 all at once because it is a feature of liberal democracy when the nation is handed unlimited

00:22:07.420 rights well if someone is in the country but not of the nation they will demand to be given the

00:22:16.200 same regard to to make sure they have the same rights because there's no special carve out

00:22:21.680 anymore for different groups and different classes in society and this is this is actually

00:22:27.400 to take something away from people this is actually to remove something from them and

00:22:32.160 if you don't consent to having these things removed either your own personal identity

00:22:36.320 a certain legal status i mean the maori in new zealand have a certain legal status based on being

00:22:43.180 maori and the new zealand government is trying to give them the same rights as everyone else

00:22:48.160 but the maori understand no if we lose this status now identity we get shoved into the

00:22:53.480 cultural blender and that's what all the hacker in the parliament's about it looks ridiculous to

00:22:57.440 us but actually they're making an argument from the old world not the new world and i'm more

00:23:04.060 inclined to agree with it i mean obviously you know tribesmen do what tribesmen do but the way

00:23:11.520 the reason the british empire was so successful is because we would just say okay well that's what

00:23:14.780 you guys do and this is what we do and we're the guys with the guns so we're all just going to have

00:23:19.180 an understanding that we'll let you do your thing you're going to pay us taxes or whatever it is

00:23:22.980 and we're going to do our thing and everyone will be okay with this and this lasted for hundreds of

00:23:27.520 years with a very very very small amount of military to keep the peace so it was clearly

00:23:33.000 something that worked for most people but the the modern attitude of the liberal democracy is

00:23:38.960 you are not allowed to be exclusive and therefore what that means is you are not allowed your own

00:23:45.180 ethnic group and melanie phillips here is saying that's true for you but it's not going to be true

00:23:51.020 for us i'm sorry i just don't accept that yeah there is so much important there so as you point

00:23:58.500 out even in like a classic republic it was usually based around a city state and you had a general

00:24:05.960 citizenship because all of the men involved were part of the military they were part of the defense

00:24:11.360 of the city uh the citizen was he who was the armed and so that you know everyone had a stake

00:24:16.480 and a direct action involved in securing their political rights inside the polis once you have

00:24:23.460 more of this imperial or this monarchical structure what you have is a whole set of

00:24:29.660 different peoples uh all ruled over by different sovereigns and each you know set of people each

00:24:34.560 nation inside that sovereign uh you know uh area they have different needs different demands

00:24:41.040 different desires ways of life and they're allowed to live more or less inside that way of life as

00:24:46.360 long as they kind of recognize the overcoat of the king of the overcoat of the empire that that

00:24:51.820 i'm sorry the the suzerainty of the king you recognize the king is the monarch because you

00:24:59.980 get kings who are the kings of like the james the first the king of scotland and england that

00:25:05.540 doesn't mean that scotland and england are gonna have the same rules the same laws and in fact if

00:25:09.260 you think about it for hundreds of years 400 years we've had the same monarch even if before the act

00:25:14.740 of union we've had it for 100 years prior to that we are still very distinct ethnic groups very

00:25:21.340 distinct peoples even though we've been in a political union for 400 years there's not been

00:25:26.620 a blender effect under this system and this this is fine everyone was actually quite happy with it 1.00

00:25:32.460 it seems to the point where when given the option the scots are like yeah no we don't want to leave

00:25:35.900 why would we want to so it's it's one of those things where there's there's clearly advantages

00:25:40.840 on a basic human level to allowing different groups to be separate but to to work together

00:25:47.520 there's clearly advantages to this but in the shift to nationalism which people often forget

00:25:54.000 was considered more of a left-wing move at the time under the shift of in in nationalism the

00:25:59.520 idea is that the nation itself the ethnost itself has separate rights to determination that should

00:26:05.660 be broken out away from the monarchs and if you look at the death of the monarchies after war war

00:26:11.420 one, that's basically Woodrow Wilson's project. He literally created ethnostates. That was the

00:26:17.400 idea. Every one of these ethnos has had their own self-determination they should be able to impose.

00:26:23.780 And so when you make the state and the ethnos the same thing, when you create the ethnostate,

00:26:28.320 which by the way, it's kind of funny that many right-wingers think that's the solution to a

00:26:31.960 problem when it was actually the beginning of this problem. But by creating the ethnostate,

00:26:37.280 you create the idea, as you're pointing out, that if you're not part of the tribe,

00:26:40.860 If you're not part of the people that are making the political self-determination through mass democracy, then you are therefore irrelevant. You do not have a standing inside the community. And so therefore you have to then dissolve the ethnic part of ethnic nationalism.

00:26:56.200 And that's the real thing we've seen over time. It wasn't a transition from tribal structures into modern mass democracy. It was the breaking out of this more imperial structure that was kind of the long standard across human existence. And we broke it into these ethno-nationalist ideas.

00:27:14.480 And then these ethnostates had to dissolve their ethnosis in order to maintain their kind of identity as cohesive states.

00:27:22.100 The state, the ethnicity was sublimated to the existence of the state.

00:27:26.000 And the state then had to, as you say, turn itself into a blender for all these identities in order to maintain its power.

00:27:32.940 Yeah, this nationalism itself is a result of liberalism.

00:27:37.960 Now, that's an unpopular thing to say on the right.

00:27:40.360 But philosophically and historically, this is just the fact of it.

00:27:43.920 because what nationalism does is interpolate each individual person as an individual person first

00:27:51.340 and so this this is where you get the idea of the levion mass and cannon fodder from this is why

00:27:56.660 napoleon said look the germans can't beat me i spend 20 000 lives a month well no king in the

00:28:01.880 ancient world could have bragged about that because the loyalty and the ability to levy troops from

00:28:07.740 any particular subject group would be on the understanding that their loyalty comes with

00:28:13.840 caveats it comes with obligations on the part of the king they are subjects but he is also subject

00:28:20.260 to them in some way whereas the levion mass when it's when you've when you've just turned people

00:28:25.620 into an egalitarian line there's no hierarchy anymore it is citizen or non-citizen and so this

00:28:33.500 and really this is the first step towards globalism because there's no reason you can't

00:28:38.380 universalize this concept of citizen either actually um this turns everyone into what is

00:28:45.940 from the state's perspective functionally the same and so yeah there are no distinctions there are no

00:28:52.440 gradients there is no hierarchy you are basically all of the same and i need a hundred thousand men

00:28:58.500 to go and invade germany with or whatever it is napoleon was doing you know like it's it's actually

00:29:04.800 not good at all and it's it's why it's why the 20th century is such a weird aberration 0.74

00:29:11.560 national cultures are not normal right the the the idea that there's a french culture 0.71

00:29:17.180 is not historically attested until the 19th 20th centuries right the the idea that the the people

00:29:24.020 in britain are all just the british or the english like there are loads of regions that

00:29:29.620 are still trying to cling on to traditional folkways i mean i'm sure you're all familiar

00:29:34.360 with like you know bavarian uh dancing and their their particular gear and stuff like well that

00:29:41.760 was just what they were like for hundreds of years because there was no blender effect there

00:29:46.600 was no homogenization from the nation state but now we're in this era and they're trying to tell 0.76

00:29:53.680 us that no infinite numbers of foreigners have been brought here they're completely different to

00:29:57.380 you maybe culturally maybe they don't speak your language maybe they don't really care about you 1.00

00:30:02.160 at all and they're just here to get benefits but as far as the state is concerned it can't

00:30:07.240 distinguish between one kind of citizen and another you're all the same to me and this is

00:30:11.560 why replacement migration seems like a good idea why wouldn't i do this what stops me

00:30:16.520 right i mean you had a scenario where you know italy wasn't unified to the late 1800s you know

00:30:23.040 in spain catalonia it still sees itself as something entirely different uh you can think

00:30:27.600 of quebec in canada though now it's just going to be indian like the rest of of canada and that's

00:30:32.360 kind of the point right like all of it all of canada will be indian uh and none of it will be

00:30:37.420 in any way separatist they will all be a bunch of socially compliant you know civic canadians

00:30:42.940 who are ethnically indian but have no connection to canada and therefore certainly no one in quebec

00:30:48.420 to stand around and say no we're something separate or different which is the entire point

00:30:52.640 but that said we've made it uh two sentences into this post in about 30 minutes so perhaps

00:30:57.340 that's why the jewish people as a people is entitled to live in its ancestral homeland

00:31:05.980 um so this one is of course terrifying for anyone who believes that their people should have a right

00:31:13.780 to live in their ancestral homeland uh because she's claiming this as some kind of unique right

00:31:18.260 that the english or the americans do not have that you and i do not have the right to live

00:31:23.420 in our ancestral homeland uh but for some reason jewish people do because of judaism now you have

00:31:31.500 coined uh you have coined a turn i think i think you coined the term uh but you're certainly one

00:31:36.820 who popularized it demographic demographic security which i think is just perfect phrasing

00:31:42.020 that's that's like everybody like wrap it send it use it all the time um but that is going to be i

00:31:48.480 think the battle moving forward i think you're exactly right about this that you have to recognize

00:31:53.200 the right of these nations of these peoples as peoples to have demographic security which is

00:31:59.700 exactly what melanie phillips is arguing about when she says we have demographic when she says

00:32:04.520 we have a right to our ancestral land she means jewish people should be the dominant ethnicity 0.53

00:32:09.300 inside of israel full stop and she doesn't think there needs to be any justification for that

00:32:14.860 well no no she gives justification judaism is the unique fusion of a people faith and land

00:32:20.920 it's like i don't know if i'd say i mean unique in that it's only jews in judea and israel

00:32:29.040 that became the jewish people as we understand now sure but that itself is not actually a unique

00:32:35.220 process again i get when i did a video on this i gave the example well england is actually exactly

00:32:40.160 the same it's a unique fusion of a people a faith and a land i mean we've got the we know that we

00:32:46.180 know the names of the tribes of the israelites who became the jews over a long enough period of time

00:32:51.420 well we know that the names of the tribes who became the english over a long enough period of

00:32:56.860 time and we also know that christianity was a bedrock of this alfred the great talks about

00:33:03.140 christianity all the time he was convinced that the viking invasions were only possible the raids

00:33:08.880 on england were only possible the the fall of like you know three quarters of the english kingdoms or

00:33:13.760 however many it was was only possible because we had been insufficiently christian and so he spent

00:33:19.380 his life um returning to what he viewed as the proper biblical interpretation of christianity

00:33:26.960 to the point where he even he personally translated the bible into anglo-saxon english

00:33:34.020 and sent this around to the various monasteries and cathedrals of england like so to say that oh

00:33:40.840 it's only the jews who have a unique claim to a land a religion and a particular history well no

00:33:48.560 it's not actually most peoples have that most peoples have a faith most people have a collection

00:33:54.460 of tribes that became the ethnic group you refer them to and most peoples have a homeland it's

00:33:59.640 actually really common if you think about it the polish people are a series of silesian or whatever

00:34:05.640 you know slavic tribes who existed in this particular area under this particular faith

00:34:11.220 went through this particular history and so with the germans and so with the franks and so with

00:34:15.880 everyone else this is actually just the normal state of affairs for peoples around the world

00:34:21.740 each example is unique i will grant her that the jews are the jews the english are the english the

00:34:27.940 polish are the polish but we all went through this same process so aren't we all entitled to

00:34:33.320 the same as you say well demographic security i coined that on andrew gold's podcast when i was

00:34:38.060 talking to him uh he just had steve law's on and steve law's got a much more hardline position than

00:34:43.540 i do uh and i was trying to explain look we don't have to get to steve law's hardline position

00:34:48.540 but we have to maintain a security a demographic security to know that the country will be

00:34:54.660 controlled by the english in the future and that's not an unreasonable thing at all and this is what

00:35:01.120 melanie phillips is arguing for right now for the jews in israel and i actually agree of course the

00:35:06.680 jews should remain the majority in israel but i also think the english should remain the majority

00:35:10.600 in england yeah it really is just about consistency here the problem is the claim that is not the

00:35:16.720 problem is not the claim itself the problem is the claim to exclusivity that this should only

00:35:21.680 apply to one people there's there's somehow some unique thing about the jewish people that allows

00:35:27.000 them this right that no one else has when you say actually throughout history this is literally how

00:35:32.560 every tribe saw themselves in fact the vast majority of gods before christianity and is

00:35:38.280 precisely like literally how did you know you were part of the tribe well you sacrificed to

00:35:44.880 the god of the city and you ate the meat that was sacrificed to the god of the city and that's what

00:35:49.680 made you have this shared identity that's literally the binding ritual so all she's

00:35:54.640 describing is how everyone lived historically basically up until the last few hundred years

00:36:01.100 even under christianity which is more uh you know universalizable religion it was very clear that

00:36:06.440 christianity uh kind of um manifested itself differently in different nations they had very

00:36:13.800 specific forms uh you know obviously the anglicans literally broke away uh to to create their own

00:36:20.000 you know english version of this uh to have sovereignty inside of it so you know even even

00:36:25.100 under that uh general uh universal religion still see the manifestation of exactly what she's talking

00:36:30.800 about throughout all of the history including the history of the west no you're completely correct

00:36:35.880 i mean like one of my one of my favorite things uh in history is celtic christianity the the irish

00:36:42.940 converting to christianity long before most places do and because they're such an insular

00:36:47.960 remote place compared to the rest of the roman empire develop their own very um elegant form

00:36:54.300 very beautiful form of christianity that persists long after the roman empire has fallen and long

00:36:59.420 after england has been settled by the pagan anglo-saxon king kingdoms and so you have this

00:37:05.820 kind of weird uh like almost cut off part of the the the former i mean it was never part of the

00:37:12.640 roman empire either so you've got this this remote color thing but it didn't stop being christianity

00:37:18.360 it's just as christianity is expressed by the irish and as you say it's expressed in whatever 0.54

00:37:23.680 way from whatever denomination and that's the faith that she's talking about oh only the jews

00:37:29.100 have this like no and it really just seems to come down to her ethnic chauvinism that makes her think

00:37:37.160 this is a unique phenomenon to her ethnic group because it's actually very common it's actually

00:37:41.540 common to all ethnic groups back to her post here she says this is a different uh this is

00:37:49.060 different again from israeli identity arabs jews and others are also israeli citizens with

00:37:54.720 equal civic and religious rights but unless they convert to judaism they can't be jews with a

00:38:00.620 unique claim to self-determination in the land their unique political right to a state of their

00:38:05.840 own uh yes that is amazing that's an amazing statement because what she's saying there is 0.99

00:38:12.380 well you can be an arab or a druz or someone else as an israeli citizen but it's only the jews that

00:38:18.420 have the unique political right to the state of israel and i don't even disagree no that means

00:38:25.180 it's only the english welsh scottish and northern irish who have the unique political right to the

00:38:30.800 state of great britain and northern ireland right it's it it has to follow that that is the case

00:38:37.360 even if we have non uh the the acronym that's being used is wise welsh irish scottish english

00:38:43.640 non-wise um citizens that's fine but we will always have a unique political right above them

00:38:51.920 to britain and melanie phillips is making that claim for israel and i agree with it and she if

00:38:59.440 she were to be consistent would have to agree that the native british people have that unique claim

00:39:04.720 to britain if you look at something like albion seed you know book a lot of people reference when

00:39:11.980 it comes to american identity uh you see the four distinct folkways the four distinct british people

00:39:17.640 who come over and constitute the united states many people will call this the heritage american

00:39:22.720 stock the the you know the wasp stock uh but ultimately uh the the point is that these are

00:39:28.860 the the founding culture the founding understanding of who americans are and you can add people into

00:39:33.920 that you know you can have different people fall into the civic identity but this should be the

00:39:38.520 guiding self-determining an understanding of what the americans are under melanie phillips

00:39:43.940 understanding as well so if we again if we were applying this model to the uk and to the united

00:39:49.680 States universally, this would be fine. There would be nothing offensive about what she's

00:39:54.100 saying here. It's perfectly logical. It perfectly is coherent when it comes to the traditional way

00:39:59.120 that state identities, that national identities, that identities of people were understood

00:40:03.980 previously. But again, the problem is the exclusion that only Israel and only the Jews

00:40:09.580 in Israel are allowed to live historically, to have this claim, to have this identity,

00:40:14.760 to have this level of determination to guarantee themselves as a people along a continuum right

00:40:22.460 because it's it's not just in the here and now or in the past that this was the case they're also

00:40:28.560 guaranteeing it for the future and there's no reason that we you know you as an american me

00:40:32.800 as an englishman there's no reason we shouldn't want to guarantee the same thing for ourselves

00:40:37.580 going into the future and melanie phillips saying no sorry you can't have a guarantee on that you

00:40:42.000 no, I'm putting a block here. You can't

00:40:44.020 have a guarantee on that. It's like, well, I can

00:40:45.940 actually, and I know you're going to call me

00:40:47.960 names for saying that, but I can have

00:40:49.940 that, and I want that thing, and so

00:40:51.920 I'm going to have that thing. That is what I'm

00:40:54.040 going to get.

00:40:55.660 Yeah, again, this is not something I ever wanted

00:40:58.040 to deeply make my mission

00:40:59.820 or really dive into,

00:41:01.860 but I've come to the conclusion that there

00:41:03.940 is simply no survival

00:41:05.600 for my nation or for my people

00:41:07.540 without fighting for this. There simply is

00:41:10.000 no world in which

00:41:11.720 the united states as i know it and i love it continues to exist unless we can recognize this

00:41:18.200 right and forge this identity and fight for it without fear of being called names or being

00:41:23.580 accused of anything and so at this point i really don't care what you call me for holding these

00:41:27.660 beliefs i don't care what little smear campaigns people are trying to you know peddle on the

00:41:32.100 internet or any of these things uh there's simply too much at stake and i know it's the same for

00:41:36.640 you guys in the uk again it's it doesn't mean that this is like something that we we enjoy

00:41:41.360 that we deeply take pleasure in you know getting into these battles but there's simply no other

00:41:45.420 option if you care about your children if you care about your grandchildren you care about your

00:41:49.340 community there is something simply nothing left and we cannot be cowards about this we cannot be

00:41:54.060 cowed by mean words because that's somehow going to drive us away from protecting what our forefathers

00:42:00.560 literally died to protect i mean i i began my career on the internet as a liberal not really

00:42:06.820 having thought very deeply about any of these things and so my my intellectual journey has

00:42:12.940 actually been very very public and sometimes you know time has been painful when i've been proven

00:42:17.600 wrong about things and so i've had to go back to the drawing board and go okay what am i dealing

00:42:22.620 with here what is actually at stake what is what are the ideas how do they intersect how do they

00:42:27.440 interact what are the conclusions that we draw from them and what does it mean if we follow those

00:42:34.560 conclusions and i've arrived at basically the same position as you yes it has to be that the people

00:42:41.080 have the claim to the land and the state that rules over this land or else someone else does

00:42:47.180 and then when you start saying well who are these other people you say well it's a person from

00:42:51.020 bangladesh it's a person from pakistan it's a person from nigeria it's a person who has that

00:42:57.020 somewhere else who has a nation state of their own that has their interests as an ethnic group a

00:43:03.740 people at heart going on into the future and for some reason we're not supposed to be able to have

00:43:10.220 that too why would i want to just give over the inheritance of more than a thousand years to

00:43:16.820 people who have countries of their own why would i want to do that why would i think i'm entitled

00:43:21.600 to deprive my children of this i i inherited when i was young and i was growing up man england was

00:43:28.620 an amazing country it was amazing it was literally heaven on earth and now i i'm angry every single

00:43:35.500 day i step out of my house i'm angry seeing the state of it and so and this is this has been a

00:43:41.300 large part of the driver to people in restore britain a lot of them are about my age and about

00:43:46.640 my social standing as in you know we're married we've got businesses we've got children and we're

00:43:51.540 like no this we've got to do something about this a lot of them were not political until fairly

00:43:56.480 recently because they're looking around the state of the country and going right not only is the

00:44:00.200 place collapsing but look at the demographics we can't hand this on we have to do something

00:44:05.500 and if if you're in america watching this you need to think about that yourself you need to

00:44:09.960 think about these things these are the things that will define the next thousand years if you don't

00:44:14.980 get this right now so you have to think about it right let's uh finish off this post here it says

00:44:21.720 because of the unique and multifaceted nature of judaism there is no crossover with british

00:44:26.200 identity because i've written for decades just pause there that that that is a very very extreme

00:44:32.840 statement to say that the the the nature of judaism jewish identity has no crossover with

00:44:40.900 british identity she's saying that no jews are british and she said this elsewhere as well by

00:44:47.100 the way she said explicitly you are jewish not british you know you might live in britain but

00:44:53.260 you are jewish who lives in britain not a british jew she's said this explicitly that that is a very

00:44:59.260 hard line position and one that i personally don't hold obviously i'm sure that you know

00:45:03.400 because she's right the british is a civic identity there are going to be jewish people

00:45:07.840 who consider themselves to be british they're not going to have an affinity i mean i know some

00:45:11.920 in fact it was andrew gold i was talking to on his podcast he was like i don't i've never been

00:45:16.460 to israel i don't know anything about israel i don't care about israel i just think of myself

00:45:19.980 as being english but i'm jewish and i was like yeah fair enough you know that's okay you know

00:45:24.720 like like it's not i'm we're not going to kick you out andrew i'm not anyway we're not going to

00:45:30.320 kick you out you know and like andrew finds himself on the right wing of politics because

00:45:35.360 he doesn't want the english to lose control of england like obviously like i mean he's worried

00:45:41.640 about the other people who are we're bringing in like they start they sometimes yell allah

00:45:47.520 akbar and then attack jews in the street and he's like you know it didn't happen when i was growing

00:45:51.940 up and there weren't any of these people here and it was just english people around me why are we

00:45:55.820 bringing them here like i you know he he's he understands and he got it during that podcast i

00:46:01.100 talked to him about so anyway no i mean it's i mean you can read cultural critique or one

00:46:07.820 sentence from melanie phillips here and they say the same thing you know which is not great

00:46:12.000 uh that that you know and as you say this is far from all jewish people who have this

00:46:16.820 understanding there are plenty of jewish people who just want to be a part of the

00:46:20.680 identity of the nation that they're in and think of themselves you know primarily that way but you

00:46:25.900 know again to survive as a nation in diaspora for thousands of years which to be fair is a

00:46:31.140 incredible accomplishment um but but in order to do that you you do have to kind of invest in this

00:46:37.380 belief, right? If you do not hold this understanding of yourselves while you are a nation entirely in

00:46:44.220 diaspora, you can never come back together as a people in a place like Israel. It's only because 0.91

00:46:49.500 you maintain this separate identity that refuses to be assimilated that ultimately can create that

00:46:54.500 scenario. And so for those who have made Israel their mission, it's not surprising that this is 0.92

00:47:00.000 the construction of judaism that they hold you know you there are i i know um i've gotten friends 0.94

00:47:08.140 with um a fair number like you know three or four hungarian jews right and they basically they don't

00:47:17.100 say it in as many words but they basically say look don't let what happened to us happen to you

00:47:21.900 let you know it as you say being a diaspora for 2 000 years is a difficult thing a very difficult 1.00

00:47:30.340 thing most nations do not come back from it in fact most of the jews did not come back from it 0.99

00:47:36.420 the 12 lost tribes of israel are lost because the assyrians captured them and assimilated them 0.94

00:47:41.540 into assyria right they didn't they didn't survive the long process of history and the fact 1.00

00:47:47.520 the jews did is actually quite impressive and a lot of them are just like look you've got to 1.00

00:47:51.580 protect yourselves from the hordes that you're allowing in you have to stop this your political 1.00

00:47:57.700 control of your own countries is important and i mean why wouldn't we take that lesson from them

00:48:04.800 why wouldn't we say yeah no great point great point is obviously not being an easy thing for

00:48:09.620 you to do and obviously you wouldn't wish that on someone else so obviously obviously

00:48:15.780 yeah again if if you know if this principle was universal it would be a a shining example uh to

00:48:24.740 people of how to maintain one's identity and and to fight uh you know uh for it in a heroic manner

00:48:30.740 the problem is again the lack of universality in this principle but as i have written for decades

00:48:36.000 the british are not only entitled to but should promote and defend their historic identity identity

00:48:41.600 and its culture uh historic nation identity and its culture there's no conflict between those

00:48:46.820 positions and a suggestion that jews want to deny to the british their self-determination that jews

00:48:51.820 have fulfilled in the state of your is false and disgraceful i'm confused because literally the

00:48:56.540 entire post up until the last sentence is saying actually you can't do this specifically uh but

00:49:02.400 there's no contradiction here well she doesn't even make it out of her own paragraph what does

00:49:08.780 it mean to defend our nation identity and culture historic nation identity and culture if we can't

00:49:16.720 draw an exclusion between those people who are wise welsh english irish and scottish um and not

00:49:23.860 if we can't do that if they're all just british if everyone's british how do we do that and so

00:49:29.440 she finds herself in a bit of a bind here where actually she did argue that explicitly

00:49:34.860 even though she understands that it would be bad for us to basically follow her advice that she

00:49:42.280 gave in the first half in her post but it's it's one of those things where she will call you an

00:49:47.600 anti-semite for for going against essentially what she's posted i mean the the whole thing was

00:49:52.820 in explicit response to leo curse who was making these points that we're making these aren't

00:49:57.540 exactly i mean don't worry i'm sure i hope we're doing a good job of it but like other people have

00:50:01.940 come to these conclusions too and she's responding saying well no look it's just different for us

00:50:06.660 it's like no i don't think it is actually i think i think the you know you've had a different

00:50:12.220 historical experience but the process would be the same if we lost our nations we would have to do

00:50:18.700 what you were doing in and go through the 2000 year arc of history to get your nation back we

00:50:25.860 would have to do the same thing and so it'd be better for us just to not do that it'd be better

00:50:29.600 for us to just not give up our countries not give up the suzerainty the sovereignty we have

00:50:33.700 over our own dominion i mean it just makes sense yeah and and we should again stop and say uh that

00:50:40.760 there are a number of jewish people who have started to get this problem uh notably yoram

00:50:46.200 hozoni running the national conservatism conference uh there i do have some problems

00:50:50.960 with yoram's construction of what western nations is are allowed to identify as but ultimately he

00:50:56.220 is that if you want to maintain the nation state of Israel, you better allow other people to

00:51:01.580 maintain similar nation states. That nationalism needs to be a universal right, a universal

00:51:08.940 structure that people have access to, and that it shouldn't be something that is simply exclusive

00:51:14.260 to Israel. That this idea of arguing for yourself entirely from some kind of special exception

00:51:19.880 is no longer going to work, and they need to shift their strategy to explaining that this is just how

00:51:25.460 people should be structured and so israel is just a map uh you know a a display of kind of how you

00:51:32.240 too can have a strong national identity that is i think the route forward for jewish people who

00:51:38.000 want to maintain this understanding of the way they should be able to live their lives

00:51:41.600 yeah i mean i i think that political extremism is a consequence of desperation i think when people

00:51:52.620 become especially when it becomes right-wing extremism uh it it is a particular kind of

00:51:59.480 desperation that is felt and naturally they're thinking well we don't want a situation of 1930s

00:52:04.380 germany again it's like no i i don't want that either and the best way to avoid that is to

00:52:09.720 maintain a strong healthy wholesome nation that isn't falling prey to degeneracy that isn't feeling

00:52:15.700 demographically insecure that isn't feeling like its culture is under attack that is allowed to

00:52:20.860 authentically itself and that prevents the kind of resentment from building up that might cause

00:52:27.620 something terrible to happen because you know i don't know the future and all i know is i just

00:52:33.860 want something good for my kids i just want a good country for my kids you know that's i don't i don't

00:52:40.320 think that's a terrible thing to ask for i don't think that's extreme and yet i'm being painted as

00:52:45.060 an extremist for wanting those things i'm sorry i just don't agree i think it's very reasonable

00:52:50.400 and the more that gets denied i mean and i'm saying this as someone who owns his house who

00:52:55.560 owns a business who is successful in the world who's married who's got his kids well what about

00:53:00.220 these young people these i mean i know a lot of like you know lads in their 20s who are like

00:53:03.620 how the hell am i buying a house how am i going to find a how am i going to persuade a woman i'm

00:53:08.300 actually an impressive guy i've got a good career ahead of myself i'm going to make money i'm going

00:53:12.060 to be able to provide how like they're looking at that now and they're in their 20s what about

00:53:16.840 kids who are like you know five or six now in 20 years time for them what's it going to look like

00:53:21.280 for them when they are an absolute minority in their own country are they going to be more

00:53:25.440 moderate do you think do you think they're going to be more moderate do you think they're going to

00:53:29.820 be like yeah no guys i'm very liberal and progressive or are they going to be quite angry

00:53:35.240 that within living memory like i'll be an old man i'll be in my 60s god willing it says the atheist

00:53:41.720 um i'll be in my 60s and i'll say yeah no when i was a kid when i was you know younger than you

00:53:46.460 everything was amazing i lived in paradise we lived in heaven it was just we didn't even think

00:53:51.260 about it and for some reason of the course of my life we gave this away are they going to be

00:53:55.860 resentful do you think do you think they're going to be angry do you think they're going to watch

00:53:59.140 the videos of you know the 1970s 1980s and go wow i can't believe you didn't give me this

00:54:05.120 yeah i mean the as uh rr reno put it the strong gods are returning that's going to happen and so

00:54:12.960 the question is do you want to be the people who are identified as the guys who were artificially

00:54:17.920 holding the gates closed do you want to be identified as the group that was standing in the

00:54:21.960 way of these completely unstoppable forces and are going to be blamed for attempting attempting

00:54:28.020 to encumber their return because the answer as you point out should be no get out of the way

00:54:33.440 and you know do your best to show your support for these things rather than putting yourself

00:54:38.440 in opposition because if you don't the yeah the the level of resentment is going to be absolutely

00:54:43.100 off the charts that's absolutely correct and and if you think we don't care about being called names

00:54:48.320 they're gonna laugh in your face yeah like if you you you tell one of these like gen alphas who's a

00:54:54.320 minority in their schools already guys don't be racist because you've got white privilege over

00:54:59.520 the of the non-white people they're like what i mean a lot of them are already doing that now 1.00

00:55:05.380 they're going to think you are just a clown they're going to think you're ridiculous and 0.99

00:55:09.740 they're going to think that you're evil for trying to stand in the way of them getting what they will 0.99

00:55:13.860 consider to be their birthright and that's because it is their birthright i mean there's no reason

00:55:17.780 we should be denying this to our own progeny this is mad to do it especially as like i said

00:55:24.220 it's not like the people who we're bringing here don't have countries of their own they all have

00:55:30.020 countries of their own and they can go there if they want to have the experience of being secure

00:55:35.540 demographically in their own homeland they all have that option but there is many more nations

00:55:41.680 now than there were a hundred years ago like a hundred years ago there were a third as many

00:55:47.120 nations as there are now because the end of empire meant the proliferation of national states that

00:55:52.780 are there to look after the interests of these ethnic groups and we should be entitled to the

00:55:58.240 say. That's literally all I'm saying. Yeah, this is the tragedy of the liberalization of the idea

00:56:03.680 of property rights. Property rights existed before liberalism, but they existed with the idea that

00:56:08.500 you were a custodian of that property, that you had some kind of duty across different generations

00:56:15.080 to maintain that property, to pass that property on, that that was a chain of being that you were

00:56:23.480 a part of, that you're a custodian of, and you were just one link of that. You could not just

00:56:27.340 sell it off because it was your property no it was something you were holding instead because

00:56:32.520 your ancestors gave it to you and you owed it to your children to pass it along uh and so it's not

00:56:37.880 just madness though it is madness to to to shirk this responsibility it's evil it's cowardice like

00:56:44.760 what what kind of coward are you to unload that tradition that history that duty of maintaining 0.57

00:56:53.320 that country and passing on the next generation what kind of coward are you to do this just because 0.98

00:56:58.060 you got called a name like that is that is got to be the most gutless thing i have the luxury of

00:57:02.060 doing that yeah like we are the we are the we with every person carries their civilization with them

00:57:09.440 whether they know it or not whenever whenever you come to england hour on you're very clearly an

00:57:13.900 american whenever i go to america i'm very clearly english like it's you know that it's it's there's

00:57:19.720 no question of it no one ever everyone can tell everyone who listens to us when we talk

00:57:25.360 in our respective you know when we're in the other person's country everyone can tell it's fine

00:57:30.640 everyone knows that you carry your civilization with you and you actually have an obligation to

00:57:36.460 uphold that and pass that on to your own children it's like so evil's the right way to describe it

00:57:41.460 in in the sort of aspect of deep selfishness you know like the 1960s onwards this idea collapses

00:57:48.880 completely that there's a continuation between the past and the present and the future it's like no

00:57:53.600 that that didn't go away you just became selfish and irresponsible and decided actually i don't

00:57:59.900 need to care about this at all and we've had nothing but that ever since you know uh harry

00:58:06.800 robinson from the lotus eaters was in the united states here recently and it was funny because

00:58:11.940 he was in the car with me uh one of our other guys from the northeast was driving the car

00:58:17.120 and all of a sudden everybody in the side and stopped and would not move and they did not

00:58:25.860 understand what was going on and i had to explain not just to harry but to one of the guys who's

00:58:30.740 american but from the northeast that in the south when there was a funeral there's a funeral

00:58:35.240 procession and everyone pulls off the road and everyone stops until the funeral procession has

00:58:40.860 passed and you do not pull onto that road for any reason or someone is going to whoop you like

00:58:45.920 that's going to be you know you're not walking out of there whole and uh that's a lovely tradition

00:58:52.620 and but they were baffled because they just you know that that was just from a even in america

00:58:57.640 that was from a different culture one part of america to the other so it's just just to bolster

00:59:02.720 your point that that you know this this is something that you lose the minute you try to

00:59:06.560 throw everything into that blender when you try to homogenize it because you know it's not like

00:59:11.700 harry didn't have the respect for the dead he just didn't know you know he just was unfamiliar

00:59:16.560 and it's very clear that that was just not part of his culture yeah and and even from the guys

00:59:22.180 from the northeast i mean it's not part of their culture either you know exactly um yeah no i i i

00:59:27.140 found that very charming as well it's a very charming thing um and it would it would be tragic

00:59:32.760 to lose it wouldn't it be tragic to lose these these nor like one of my favorites when peter

00:59:38.380 bagosian came to visit me a few years ago i had to teach him that in england even if someone is

00:59:44.240 just serving you you still have to be polite to them right you start saying oh thank you right

00:59:49.000 because it's it shows that actually you are not merely a transaction to that person or that person

00:59:56.520 is not merely a transaction to you no they're they're one of your countrymen you know they're

01:00:00.800 doing you a service as in you know you're buying something and selling something from but you can

01:00:04.840 be polite to them and actually being polite to them just makes them feel like they belong

01:00:08.780 it makes them feel like this is just their country too we all share this country and we all belong in

01:00:13.940 it and this is a really weird thing that i know a lot of americans find odd about britain uh is

01:00:20.760 that's how you should maintain your uh your your relationship with your server in the south as well

01:00:26.300 but yeah i hear you that's not a universal thing but you know what i mean in like new york or in

01:00:30.420 california or whatever you know like they they find this very strange um but it but it it makes

01:00:36.460 england feel and britain generally feel a lot more homely and a lot more like it's ours and that we

01:00:42.220 belong together when we treat each other like this rather than the kind of cold anonymized

01:00:48.500 indifferent service and this is why everyone always hates the kind of you know have a nice

01:00:53.620 day from americans like the stereotype of american service and i have a nice day it's like it feels

01:00:58.480 very hollow you know rather than just saying can i have that please oh thank you very much you know

01:01:02.620 because that's like genuine politeness that's in uh reciprocal um rather than just this kind of

01:01:09.280 fake sort of smile you know um it's always felt really weird to us in england um but yeah there's

01:01:16.100 a lot to this and this is there's a lot to what a nation is and it's all of these things bundled

01:01:21.420 together that you take with you through your existence in the world and pass on to your

01:01:25.760 children and and you you you influence like your neighbors and your friends and the people around

01:01:30.260 you with your habits as well and this becomes this unconscious collective gestalt entity that

01:01:36.860 exists called the south or england or america or whatever it is and these things are valuable in

01:01:43.060 themselves we should think about well why don't i do the right thing like if if there's a funeral

01:01:47.700 you pull over why because that's what we do that's just what we do that's what that's a part of what

01:01:52.760 we are and that's what makes us what we are and that's fine you know it's fine that the arabs

01:01:57.000 go to their cult of prayer five times a day in arabia or whatever that's fine it's what they

01:02:01.780 do it's what makes them them and they do it because it makes them them and we do these

01:02:05.700 things they make them us and that's fine there shouldn't be a problem none of this should be a

01:02:09.580 problem well carl uh it's always a pleasure speaking with you we have some questions from

01:02:15.580 the people stacking up here and i don't want to keep you forever so we should probably get to

01:02:18.960 them real quick but before we do where should people be looking for content from you and your

01:02:23.840 team oh just lotus eaters.com or podcast the lotus eaters on youtube is the best place and of course

01:02:32.040 guys you should be regularly watching the lotus eaters fantastic hosts over there always putting

01:02:37.000 out fantastic work i also hear they might have a magazine uh you might enjoy i'm sure carl can

01:02:43.100 share that with us we we uh we are currently on issue six of islander magazine it is um the

01:02:49.600 most beautiful and the most right-wing magazine you'll find anywhere on the internet um we only

01:02:55.440 sell it in physical copies as well because i'm very concerned about the um digitization of

01:03:00.520 everything and it's nice to have something concrete and real it can't just be uh deleted

01:03:06.680 and then memory holds i think that's important and it's i'm very proud of it's a very beautiful

01:03:11.040 thing i agree absolutely all right guys let's go to our questions real quick uh the moose man king

01:03:17.940 says blood bowl with sargon win well i've i've already handed the invitation so the people

01:03:23.220 demand it sargon when when will we see uh the blood bowl showdown here so whenever you like

01:03:28.760 um let me know what i take it it's just the i i guess there's i'm just gonna look on steam i guess

01:03:33.860 there's only one blood bowl game on steam pick up pick up blood bowl two uh not blood bowl three

01:03:39.880 not the newest one because 2 comes with all of the teams included as where 3 they nickel and

01:03:45.720 dime you for every one of them and it's not even better like it barely looks better at all uh so

01:03:50.700 it i would i would go with the ultimate edition of 2 uh instead of blood ball 2 legendary edition

01:03:55.820 that's the one right that's the one yep i'll get all right guys you you demanded it and it will be

01:04:00.760 done i used to play blood ball when i was a kid i loved oh i've still got the physical pitch and

01:04:06.140 everything it's sitting on my bookshelf over there i've got a humans and and orcs and skaven

01:04:11.080 over there i used to have uh chaos i love my chaos team my giant minotaur i'd spend the entire game

01:04:18.860 just basically trying to wound as many of the opponents as i could yes i was not really very

01:04:22.920 good at actually scoring but i love beating the crap out of my enemies well over over a league

01:04:28.720 play the bruiser strategy is good because you start getting all of the injuries and things

01:04:32.860 stacking up and so you lose the first couple games but you you like actually hinder the other

01:04:38.200 teams and then you start to slingshot ahead of them because you still have healthy players so

01:04:42.400 it's a it's a the bruiser strategy is a long league strategy it's not a good individual game

01:04:46.820 strategy yeah that's right yeah all right uh lowbrow here says uh don't forget your copy of

01:04:53.280 islander magazine from lotus cedar site before they're all gone i got you saragon yeah well

01:04:57.440 that he was already prepared to sue he even gave a super chat that's what a supporter that guy is

01:05:03.020 he gave a super chat to put that commercial on before you did that's that's how loyal he is to

01:05:08.140 the lotus here no no i appreciate that because we we do a limited print run of each one and once

01:05:14.080 it's gone it's gone and you know they they basically always sell out after the third issue

01:05:18.080 onwards they basically always sold out um and so it looks like given the you know the the number of

01:05:24.500 over time it looks like it'll be the end of this week that it'll be out of stock so get it while

01:05:29.700 you can frankly and otherwise you'll have to go on ebay and get like a a second-hand copy for like

01:05:35.360 200 like the resale value on ebay is mad because i refuse to reprint um because i like the way i

01:05:42.260 look at it it's like each one's like a moment in time it's a snapshot of like where we actually

01:05:46.120 are conceptually intellectually you know and i don't i don't want to just make it sort of like

01:05:51.320 yeah we'll just keep it on sale because we keep it on sale forever if we wanted but it wouldn't

01:05:55.240 be the same you know and i like the fact that we don't so i won't go on about it you know well i

01:05:59.940 should take the moment to go ahead and plug uh the blazes version of this which is frontier magazine

01:06:04.940 uh where you can find my insightful uh reviews of bourbon and rye whiskey uh but uh yeah we have a

01:06:11.080 similar uh physical magazine distribution uh going over here so uh if you want to get the american

01:06:15.620 version frontier if you want to get the uk version go with islander uh all right um cherry coke nixon

01:06:20.780 says is it just israel pretty much uh she'd defend uh chinese indian uh et cetera ethno

01:06:27.240 nationalism they refused to solely for whites period um you know i doubt that there would be

01:06:32.940 she would apply the same argument right as britain to china to any of the arab countries

01:06:38.600 and to india especially because there are dozens of ethnic groups in those uh denominations

01:06:45.120 yeah i i think there would probably be less emphasis on those nations i think it comes up

01:06:50.900 far more uh often when we discuss european nations and certainly the left is uh only targeting

01:06:56.940 european nations with their deconstructionist language uh but i i think if you continue to

01:07:01.720 press millie phillips on the best like you said we would see that she would ultimately come to

01:07:05.700 a similar conclusion she made it very clear that israeli identity is singular in this way or jewish

01:07:11.280 i didn't singularly she she really is a chauvinist for for jewish people and you know i'm not even i

01:07:17.640 don't even blame her for being so uh but just denying me the right to be a chauvinist for

01:07:21.600 british people is just unacceptable that's right that's exactly right it's that again the problem

01:07:26.600 is not the position the problem is the uh the lack of universality is believing that there's

01:07:31.900 one special exception that's the issue trick hook nixon says explore how american was a distinct

01:07:38.480 ethnic blend of anglo-celt germanic and other euros till world war ii and then marxist

01:07:43.560 deracinated white america i mean there's a lot of truth to this uh you can you can follow it i i my

01:07:50.440 my moderate normie text for this is who are we um i think that this is that's a great book uh that

01:07:58.200 you should uh invest in you know you got a center-left harvard professor uh writing about

01:08:02.920 the nature of american identity i think there are more incisive works on that but if you want to

01:08:08.000 just get like your toe in the water from something very moderate very down the middle uh still you

01:08:13.780 know talking about the importance of reality of american identity i think that's the way to go

01:08:17.200 he also says we must be unapologetic and unashamed and use ridicule well we certainly should be the

01:08:25.480 first two uh there's there's uh the hour is late uh the ridicule can be more tactical uh it can be

01:08:31.060 useful but uh you know these especially this issue guys is one where sincerity and finding

01:08:37.360 common ground i think is the most important you don't want to come off as the edgiest guy in the

01:08:43.160 room when you're talking about this stuff you really don't that is not the goal when you're

01:08:46.940 having this discussion the goal should be you love america i love america here's what we should do to

01:08:53.320 love america and protect it i love the uk you love the uk here's how we should protect it that should

01:08:58.420 be the conversation yeah because i mean sincerity is the right uh word for it no nothing is stronger

01:09:07.120 than a sincerely held belief nothing like no amount of ridicule no amount of um in group out

01:09:13.900 group mockery or anything like this you know nothing nothing uh like sidelining people a

01:09:19.380 sincere belief will attract other people with that sincere belief and this is how we become strong

01:09:24.260 i believe that is exactly correct spartan says uh phillips is very consistent her people are

01:09:31.200 are chosen and Gentiles aren't, and her people have believed that for thousands of years.

01:09:37.660 Well, again, I would say that there are plenty of Jewish people who do understand that either 0.95

01:09:43.060 they want to be part of other nations or that this needs to be a consistent principle if

01:09:50.220 Israel is to be able to continue to survive. But that said, for Phillips, at the very least,

01:09:55.180 this is a consistent belief for her. I think that is correct.

01:09:58.180 jacob zindell says i remember a decade ago listening to a self-described liberalist 0.99

01:10:04.180 sargon rant about intersectionalist feminism being a liberal ah more innocent times cheers chaps 0.58

01:10:10.280 yeah it's been a long journey yeah long strange trip there 0.91

01:10:14.500 uh cherry coke nixon says what happens to us if ethnic cleansing and genocide by any objective

01:10:21.720 definition we live in a global zimbabwe and uh i'm not sure how to pronounce that foreign uh

01:10:27.620 fair enough after me the flood uh i i think that ultimately you do have to be aware of i i think

01:10:39.420 again uh sargon's uh phrasing of demographic security is the right one to have there i think

01:10:45.040 carl coined the correct term i would stick with that i know those other terms may or may not be

01:10:50.500 useful in certain situations but they are loaded in a way that are going to trigger uh people to

01:10:55.720 be defensive on this issue and again what you want is sincerity you don't want to be the edgiest boy

01:11:01.220 you want to come in there and you want to be able to explain this totally normal totally reasonable

01:11:06.500 position from a position of authenticity and strength and also if you're if you're arguing

01:11:12.520 with the leftist you can just point out that they are arguing for demographic security for 0.76

01:11:16.880 the palestinians you want nothing for yourself that you don't want for them you know i don't

01:11:21.960 want the palestinians to be exterminated or anything like that you know again i don't care

01:11:25.400 about the palestinians but i don't wish them any particular ill will and it's the same principle 0.99

01:11:30.520 that they're trying to extend to palestine that i would like them to extend to our countries

01:11:34.260 that's exactly right uh ian briggs says all politics is that any politics many are saying

01:11:40.860 i mean kevin deanna coined a lot of very important terms and that is one of them uh it may be a

01:11:46.600 question of which identity is salient uh but it is true that ultimately uh these tend to be the

01:11:52.220 areas in which politics uh have to resolve these issues these are the primary issues of identity

01:11:57.880 in which political lines are drawn yep uh nixon says i don't mind zionism but i do mind many

01:12:05.040 zionists uh refuse to apply the same logic outside of israel either we all get the nation or not and

01:12:10.720 yeah i think that's just the theme going on here it's not that israel is some uniquely like bad

01:12:15.320 construction it's not it's just what everybody should be able to have everyone should be able

01:12:19.600 to exist in the way that jewish people exist in israel that should just be something that is

01:12:24.160 available to everyone historically but also the the denial of that is to say that the the person

01:12:31.260 who is denying your claim there doesn't really recognize you as having the same kind of moral

01:12:37.260 worth as they do i recognize that other people have claims to nations because i recognize that

01:12:44.760 they are people who are equally worthy of respect and dignity and a future of their own and if

01:12:52.340 someone says well we know you want that but we're not going to recognize your your claim to it well

01:12:57.000 what you're saying there is you don't recognize that i have the dignity and moral worth that you

01:13:01.280 give to yourself and your own people and i just don't think that's acceptable really i mean i

01:13:05.940 think this kind of refusal to give equal recognition is actually one of one of one of the points that

01:13:12.540 francis fukiyama makes in the end of history that he's really right about i think actually a lot of

01:13:18.160 politics is really about just recognizing the other person's validity and while someone like

01:13:24.160 menody phillips is like yeah i don't do that she will always find herself building resentment

01:13:29.300 from those people whose claim she refuses to recognize absolutely true j6 says you aren't 0.50

01:13:35.900 thinking like a moo there's their god's chosen the rules apply differently to them their nationalism

01:13:41.420 is god-given uh so actually i will disagree with this objection i think it's actually very healthy

01:13:47.560 for every people every nation to believe they have a special relationship with god i actually

01:13:52.840 think that's a totally healthy thing to do americans manifest destiny man we have always

01:13:57.920 believed this about the american people american exceptionalism is definitely tied at some level

01:14:02.320 with our belief in our relationship with god i just think that you shouldn't then deny other

01:14:06.960 people the right to have that understanding uh but i don't think that conception itself is actually

01:14:12.300 in any way a problem as long as you you know allow other people to also have a similar claim

01:14:17.460 on different lines well again going going back to the concept of tribal gods even if you have

01:14:22.300 a universal religion it's still your parochial expression of that religion it still functions

01:14:29.120 in the same way as the ancient tribal god did it's still we are us and therefore our relationship

01:14:35.480 with our god is a special relationship no matter how you slice it because of course jesus was

01:14:40.900 english and everyone knows this so it's obvious that actually we're the chosen but i think i am

01:14:48.520 right you know i think you're right 100 every people has to believe in themselves and their

01:14:53.480 relationship with um their own history and the story of their people and that story is usually

01:15:00.540 a religious one in nature

01:15:02.100 Shaker Silver says

01:15:06.340 from arguing with games pundits

01:15:08.680 to a leading voice for the moderate solutions

01:15:10.600 to save the nation before it's too late

01:15:12.440 it's been a wild ride eh Sargon

01:15:14.300 yeah I mean to be honest

01:15:16.680 with you I don't mind it

01:15:18.600 I've enjoyed it

01:15:20.360 and I think

01:15:22.660 that you just needed

01:15:24.720 something to get your teeth

01:15:26.640 into back in the day

01:15:28.520 with Game of Gate you know it's like

01:15:30.540 like we were playing games because we had nothing better to do and now we have something better to

01:15:35.540 do and okay well great the long crusade is on you know i i've got nowhere else to go and i've got

01:15:41.420 nothing else to do that's more important than this so i'm i'm quite a happy warrior even if i

01:15:46.140 look a bit tired at times all we wanted to do was play video games uh but you know here we are guys

01:15:52.060 like that's you know we instead we just have to save western civilization uh that's exactly right

01:15:59.600 you you decided to kick the hornet's nest yep uh uh caleb knight says uh carl my running theory

01:16:08.480 has been you chose not to talk uh talk but did notice while your retractors claim uh retractors

01:16:15.480 i think it means detractors there claim that you just didn't see it mind addressing both much love

01:16:19.980 my strangers uh more kids more uh more kids more good so on well i mean when you're a liberal

01:16:30.020 you are kind of you kind of train yourself not to notice ethnic groups operating in any kind of

01:16:39.620 coordinated way right which is why um which is why now you still get a bunch of like center-right

01:16:47.940 conservatives who are just like oh mamdani's a socialist no mamdani is a third worldist he is a

01:16:53.540 he is a tribal muslim who's extracting from the whites and giving to his tribe and he expressly 0.80

01:17:00.840 tells you this stop calling him a socialist there's no ideology in this this is just third world 0.93

01:17:06.880 imperial politics this is not like you know your ideology but when you're in that space you kind of

01:17:12.740 train yourself to view everything in the ideological prism and that means you miss a bunch of stuff

01:17:17.760 and once you start coming out of that and you realize well hang on a second not all politics

01:17:22.100 is enlightenment ideology then suddenly you notice a lot of things but i mean like like we were saying

01:17:28.140 earlier i've i've never had a preoccupation with jews or israel this has never been something that 0.98

01:17:32.420 has been particularly front and center in my life um but it's clear what's happening they keep 0.72

01:17:39.020 shoving it in your face and telling you no you can't have a country but we can so it has to be

01:17:44.740 addressed unfortunately that does seem to be the case uh jacob uh blow says uh that funeral custom

01:17:52.980 you described orin exists in the exact same way in ireland uh interesting i didn't know that i mean

01:17:58.420 a lot of the south of course is scots irish though that's a different thing uh but it is

01:18:02.880 good to know that that also exists in ireland adrino world order says uh for anyone wondering

01:18:09.280 nolan's the odyssey turned out to be a pretty awful even aside from any of the political or

01:18:13.940 social engineering save your money uh yeah well i appreciate you letting us know uh it's a little

01:18:19.240 off topic but uh no i refused i refused to go oh honestly it's it weirdly it's one of those things

01:18:26.080 where it's not even worth the boycott right it it just wasn't the odyssey it just was a different

01:18:32.140 story with different characters uh using the odyssey as a skin suit it was just there was

01:18:37.640 nothing like even emily wilson was just like this isn't the odyssey this isn't odysseus what are we

01:18:42.580 doing here like she she wasn't even giving it like a woke critique she wasn't even patting on 0.81

01:18:47.600 the back for that she was like no this is just shit and he's he's right by the way well it wasn't 0.95

01:18:51.640 a very good film and you'll never want to watch it twice yeah at some point i'll probably catch 0.98

01:18:57.060 it on the back uh of uh you know someone's seat in an airplane but that's probably all the time

01:19:01.480 i will uh give that movie uh maddie i says lotus eater subscribers since 2020 you guys have been

01:19:08.340 doing great is uh is there is there the awareness in the uk of the issues with migrant attacks

01:19:14.340 generally or is it still normies rolling their eyes at the daily mail well thank you very much

01:19:19.720 always a pleasure to meet a veteran and um it's a very salient political issue in britain at the

01:19:26.120 moment um it's it's all over the news all the time and the government actually put out a series of

01:19:33.000 pamphlets the other day to give to asylum species seekers specifically saying please don't rape

01:19:38.080 women and children and you can imagine how that went down with those sections of the left that 0.63

01:19:43.020 were like what do you why would you do this it's all men we've been telling you forever it's all 0.90

01:19:48.740 men and the government's like well we we yeah it is but we really need to give these asylum seekers 0.93

01:19:54.120 these pamphlets and andy burnham came out i was like look we just have to give them these pamphlets

01:19:58.460 trust us on this so it's a it's an incredibly saving issue at the moment yeah the uh the

01:20:04.080 the pamphlet thing was absolutely insane it's like it's kind of irresponsible not to give them

01:20:10.560 these pamphlets to be honest weirdly andy burnham's done the right thing here it's like yeah you've

01:20:16.640 got to give the rapist this information but it's so comically dystopian right like it's something

01:20:22.040 it's something that you you know if you were trying to make a a comedy sketch about how 0.81

01:20:26.280 ridiculous uk had become that's exactly what you would frame it around yeah but yes you're right

01:20:32.740 in the face of the denial of oh there's no difference whatsoever yeah there is yeah there 0.93

01:20:38.720 is uh joshua bb says a magnum pi and mercy wrote level crossover here yes we're bringing boomer

01:20:47.280 television uh making it great uh in podcast form uh night of the white guy says uh sincerely across

01:20:55.040 uh white erasure again i just think you should push the idea that europeans and americans have

01:21:01.520 the same right to demographic security as any other people uh throughout history i think that

01:21:07.020 is by far the most winning way you can phrase that issue uh nixon says by ridicule i meant

01:21:12.960 refuse to accept their morality well in that case yes that is most certainly how you should

01:21:17.260 be approaching that also says blake did write uh england as new jerusalem i was gonna mention it

01:21:25.280 but i thought you know what i would i would but did these feet in ancient times that's all i'm

01:21:29.960 saying megamax uh says hey carl let's play some uh lad uh two again left for dead too oh oh okay

01:21:40.580 yes uh anyway it's amazing of course i just have never seen it uh uh shortened that way but yes i

01:21:47.480 certainly played plenty of left for dead too uh anyway how much more a country for me but not for

01:21:53.020 the ebs before the hardened protocol is demanded for american number one ally the young are just

01:21:58.780 going to get more radical if you want to avoid radicalization now as both of us had said now is

01:22:04.640 the time to reformulate your understanding of this relationship that that is key even my friend

01:22:10.860 steve days who is very pro-israel very much a zionist says israel has to fundamentally change

01:22:17.240 its messaging you cannot go around you know trying to make american political primaries about israel

01:22:22.760 anymore you cannot go around making you know claims of dispensational entitlement anymore

01:22:28.400 if you want to have this relationship anymore it has to be a case of you making you know the

01:22:34.240 well the case for uh in most practical terms as to why americans would benefit from this

01:22:40.240 you're no longer going to get this pass anymore and things what does it cost israel to do that

01:22:45.860 what does it cost if you say yeah we recognize your rights your country what did you lose

01:22:51.220 well it to be fair it is a shift in mentality uh and ideology and they need to undergo it but we

01:22:59.600 both as both of us are frantically trying to get our political movements to break out of

01:23:05.120 ideology they are absolutely religiously committed to i'm sympathetic to the difficulty

01:23:09.500 of turning that ship around yeah i'm not saying it's easy yeah uh zilla says the fact that white

01:23:16.340 people have nations is the issue for jewish people again i don't think that that's the case for most

01:23:23.160 jewish people i think that that there has been a because again being a diaspora people for as long

01:23:29.420 as they were there was an inherent uh desire to avoid exclusion while maintaining uh selectivity

01:23:37.860 so they wanted to maintain a selective separate identity while avoiding civic exclusion uh and

01:23:44.000 in some cases uh that was maintained as carl put it you know just through a relationship with the

01:23:48.880 king uh but in mass democracy that's no longer the case and so uh in many cases you saw some

01:23:55.340 jewish people adopt the strategy that you're talking about there i think it's desperately 0.99

01:23:59.040 unwise uh however um that i think it's more of a product of a particular subset of jewish people

01:24:05.580 who adopted this because of their position as diaspora peoples as opposed to some kind of

01:24:10.400 blanket you know belief or yeah attitude that every jewish person has i don't i don't think

01:24:15.580 that's fair to apply it that way and nixon says if you need a grape uh pamphlet you aren't welcome

01:24:23.720 uh yep i think that's that's the message that's the message all right guys well we're going to

01:24:30.460 go ahead and wrap this up it's always a pleasure speaking to you carl i hope you have a great one

01:24:35.260 and guys if it's your first time on this channel you need to click subscribe the bell notifications

01:24:39.880 all that stuff so you know when we're going live if you want to get these broadcasts as podcasts

01:24:43.740 you need to subscribe to the or mcintyre show on your favorite podcast platform when you do leave

01:24:47.720 a rating or review it really helps with the algorithm magic thank you everybody for watching

01:24:51.840 and as always i will talk to you next time

The Auron MacIntyre Show - August 21, 2026

A Country for Me but Not for Thee ｜ Guest： Carl Benjamin ｜ 8⧸21⧸26

Episode Stats

Transcript