The Auron MacIntyre Show - Against a Talmudic Understanding of the Constitution ｜ Guest： Kevin Dolan ｜ 4⧸6⧸26

00:00:00.440 This episode is brought to you by TELUS Online Security.

00:00:03.980 Oh, tax season is the worst.

00:00:06.620 You mean hack season?

00:00:08.160 Sorry, what?

00:00:09.400 Yeah, cybercriminals love tax forms. 0.99

00:00:12.240 But I've got TELUS Online Security.

00:00:14.260 It helps protect against identity theft and financial fraud,

00:00:17.400 so I can stress less during tax season, or any season.

00:00:20.860 Plans start at just $12 a month.

00:00:23.020 Learn more at telus.com slash online security.

00:00:25.540 No one can prevent all cybercrime or identity theft.

00:00:28.260 Conditions apply.

00:00:30.700 Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.200 Before we get started today, I just want to remind you that subscriptions to BlazeTV are one of the ways that we keep the lights on around here.

00:00:44.460 So if you enjoy the show and what I'm doing, and you want to support that along with getting access to all your other favorite BlazeTV hosts, all the behind-scenes stuff,

00:00:52.620 you need to head to BlazeTV.com and use the promo code OREN to get $20 off your subscription today.

00:01:00.000 That's blazetv.com slash Oren, and you'll get $20 off your subscription today.

00:01:07.360 All right, guys, you are probably aware that birthright citizenship has come up as a critical

00:01:13.380 issue, one of the most important issues facing our nation.

00:01:16.760 And during the hearing for that issue, we heard some, let's just say, spurious reasoning

00:01:23.860 when it came to what may constitute an American citizen, how we might apply this.

00:01:29.120 And it really opens up a question because it's very clear that the intention as written in the 14th Amendment and the intention of the people who wrote the 14th Amendment that we can see in extra documents make it clear the 14th Amendment is supposed to be for the children of freed slaves.

00:01:46.960 It is not a blanket invitation of anyone who is ever a foreigner to have a baby on United States soil and suddenly become a U.S. citizen.

00:01:55.180 And yet it seems pretty clear that we're going to get exactly that interpretation out of a quote unquote conservative Supreme Court.

00:02:03.900 So the question then becomes, has this legalistic understanding of the Constitution, this attempt to be a constitutional originalist, a Talmudic understanding of the Constitution, if you will, has that really benefited the right?

00:02:20.540 Is that really what the conservative movement should be looking to do?

00:02:24.800 Joining me today to talk about this is the leader of the Exit Group, Kevin Dolan.

00:02:29.400 Thank you so much for coming on, man.

00:02:31.200 Great to be here. Thanks, man.

00:02:32.100 of course you had a fantastic piece in uh your your newsletter here recently that i think

00:02:38.560 really laid this problem out very well so i encourage people to go read the original piece

00:02:43.360 but i wanted to talk to you about it expand on it because i think it's so critical at this juncture

00:02:48.520 i am somebody who has been trying to shift kind of the right-wing understanding of the constitution

00:02:56.200 the conservative conception of the Constitution, because it's become this just kind of legal

00:03:02.940 contract by which if we scour through it thoroughly enough and we are we are true enough to the words

00:03:09.540 written on the paper, eventually it will produce the type of government and the type of situation

00:03:15.380 for the nation that we hope for. But it seems more and more that even though we're going through

00:03:21.460 like the Federalist Society and looking for these originalist judges and all of these things.

00:03:26.980 When it comes down to brass tacks, Amy Coney Barrett seems more interested in whether or not

00:03:31.680 it would be mean and messy to adjudicate citizenship as opposed to what the 14th Amendment,

00:03:37.120 you know, like actually said originally what it really meant. And so if that's not the goal,

00:03:42.920 if the goal to produce like these originalist judges is a failure, how should we be conceiving

00:03:49.060 of the constitution because you know when you start talking about the constitution as anything

00:03:53.580 other than this like completely dry exactly academic uh intellectual document legal document

00:04:01.140 all of a sudden people start hearing things like living like a living constitution and and then

00:04:07.120 you're woke and that's the scare you know what scares a lot of people so how should we be

00:04:11.480 conceiving the constitution if not like this dry academic document well i think you you have

00:04:19.040 to recognize that text itself not just the constitution but but human language uh doesn't

00:04:27.500 work in this in this legalistic uh autistic talmudic way where like you can actually get to 0.81

00:04:34.080 the truth from the words themselves uh the words are not self-enforcing they're not self-interpreting

00:04:39.480 they don't tell you what they mean and uh anytime you're trying to interpret a text you're bringing

00:04:45.460 a context to the text and uh you basically the inside of the postmodernists uh uh most most

00:04:53.500 famously derida who said there's nothing outside the text the truth that they were getting at

00:04:59.380 was that there's basically uh there's infinite context that you can bring uh to a document and

00:05:07.400 say like well this is what it actually means and what what originalists uh ostensibly are trying

00:05:14.560 to do is to say well we really respect the founding fathers and we really respect and not

00:05:21.940 only that but like if we don't if we don't respect the intent of the founders then we're all just

00:05:27.360 playing calvin ball and that's that's what they're trying to do or what they say they're trying to do

00:05:32.580 but really when you get right down to it amy coney barrett john roberts uh in particular

00:05:39.080 the sort of like people who they seem like originalists they talk like originalists but

00:05:44.060 in in the final and out like when when the rubber meets the road they're not the reason for that is

00:05:48.860 there are so few conservatives who actually want to honor the intent of like a 1787 virginia planter

00:05:57.060 yeah exactly exactly yeah and and you know like if you if and that's where progressives can just

00:06:03.500 nail these people to the wall is like they talk about the specifics of like what 1787 virginia

00:06:10.960 planters said and believed and they ask him like oh is that what we should uh is that we should

00:06:16.600 honor is that we should be doing and of course the the the originalist folds like a cheap suit

00:06:22.180 and so what i think we have to do is basically what what they're what they're doing in practice

00:06:28.880 with originalism is they're just trying to dodge they're just trying to say like i don't want to

00:06:35.500 decide so i'm going to find in the text and i'm going to say well the text says we have to do

00:06:40.800 x y and z but again text can't tell you what to do text can't decide what it means and so uh they

00:06:49.440 get just run circles around them by progressives who recognize that like actually a judge's job

00:06:55.580 is to make judgments and like and like decide how things ought to be and there's really no escaping

00:07:01.540 that and so um to answer your your specific question of how do we how do we handle the

00:07:08.840 constitution with that understanding i think you have to treat it as a spirit you have to treat it

00:07:15.400 as a guiding uh and and this is actually not that hard to do like if you talk to like almost any

00:07:22.380 conservative there's not like huge diversity of interpretation about you know what the

00:07:31.040 constitution ought to mean what rights you know americans ought to have and and who are who

00:07:35.500 Americans ought to be. It's actually not that hard. It's only hard when you're trying to apply

00:07:41.700 this Talmudic model and you're trying to dodge questions of power, questions of decision.

00:07:47.620 So there's a lot to unpack there that I think is really critical. So again, the first thing,

00:07:52.700 because you mentioned the postmodernists and we're talking about world spirits and living

00:07:58.400 constitution and it's just Hegel all over the place. It's a disaster of Hegelian proportions.

00:08:05.500 uh but but what you're saying here i know people are going to grab those buzzwords and they're

00:08:11.060 going to run it so somewhere james lindsey is cutting this interview like madly right now just

00:08:15.360 like i've got them now i hope so yes please desperately please uh but uh i want to continue

00:08:22.000 i want to put this in the full context of what you're saying here so it doesn't get pulled apart

00:08:26.800 So, so often what conservatives say are saying are we want to continue the founding. We want to refer to the founders as this final authority over which kind of over our entire society that determine what we should be doing in this moment.

00:08:46.260 When they make that appeal, as you point out, the problem is that what the founders really believed is so radically right wing as to be like basically like just this insane, you know, 1930s Germany revolution in the eyes of the average progressive.

00:09:06.080 Right. Like what a what a founding father believed in 1790 was far more radically right wing than anything that national socialists were cooking up, you know, anywhere in mid century Germany.

00:09:19.160 And so when you look at something like the, you know, Immigration Act of 1790, it's very clear who these founding fathers should thought should be coming to the United States.

00:09:31.240 And there is not a single conservative who wants to appeal to the spirit of the founding fathers when it comes to determining citizenship.

00:09:39.900 So we just kind of leave out John Jay and featherless number three, and we just leave out these immigration acts that are clear precedents that reveal the actual will of the founding fathers in this area.

00:09:51.860 yeah however at the same time while conservatives are more or less embracing a progressive notion

00:09:58.980 of the constitution and saying well yeah obviously we're not going to like literally do what they

00:10:04.640 meant back in the 1790s they also don't want to completely unmoor the constitution from any

00:10:11.200 tradition any understanding right right and so what we get is this well we should be originalists

00:10:16.840 but that means we're kind of looking at the text and we're trying to pull it apart we're trying to

00:10:22.860 argue about its different uh you know meanings and these kind of things without the actual

00:10:28.760 context of the tradition because we can't we can't factor that back in because that's going to be a

00:10:32.960 problem so we're just we're just claiming that the text itself is sufficient now the problem is as we

00:10:39.380 have seen that the text itself is wildly insufficient as you pointed out even with people

00:10:44.120 claim to be originalists they're not even coming close to this and so the only way you can truly

00:10:49.600 understand the constitution is itself as a living tradition and i don't mean a tradition in which

00:10:55.920 you can do whatever you want that's not what i mean by living tradition i mean a tradition that

00:11:00.400 is well and alive and has continued on from the founding to this moment and if you only understand

00:11:07.340 the constitution in this like dry procedural manner then you're making the same mistakes and

00:11:12.840 this is why where the you know the actual title of this episode came from besides its obvious

00:11:18.260 clickbait quality uh it uh the problem you run into is you become a jew in the first century 0.81

00:11:26.420 you become somebody who has become so obsessed with the letter of the law and attempts to follow

00:11:32.540 the law to the t that you forgot that the sabbath is made for man and not the other way around and

00:11:38.720 the constitution was made for americans americans were not made for or by the constitution and so

00:11:45.320 in order to live just as the followers of christ would in the way of god we must actually be doing

00:11:51.840 things we must be animated by this spirit we cannot simply be reading the text and hoping that

00:11:58.480 if we get just the right argument at just the right time and just enough leverage inside the

00:12:03.520 system we'll be able to force our interpretation on it no we need to actually be doing stuff that

00:12:09.960 is in the spirit of the constitution and so then when we look at the constitution we can see what

00:12:16.960 an american is we can see what america is it's a way of life that is take a snapshot of which is

00:12:23.880 encapsulated in the constitution itself and it's a beautiful thing that it's there and it's important

00:12:28.160 that it's there but it's not enough by itself so we're not arguing here for a completely unmoored

00:12:34.160 completely relativistic understanding of the constitution far far different we're looking

00:12:39.580 for the most grounded and most real understanding of a constitution which is the way it's actually

00:12:45.960 carried out by the people at any given time yeah and you know uh art of war says uh you know give

00:12:54.180 give your enemy a royal road or a golden road to, to, to retreat through. Um, the, the path they

00:13:01.120 give conservatives to retreat through is they say, well, you know, there's the amendment process,

00:13:06.960 there's judicial review. And if you think about it, the founding fathers were kind of the libtards 1.00

00:13:12.400 of their time. Like they were, uh, you know, heading in a direction. And so we should just

00:13:17.300 keep following that arc that trajectory and uh and so of course it's it's like whoever is gonna

00:13:26.920 like basically the progressives have have have embraced this idea that like there's a there's a

00:13:35.120 a promise of america right there's something america is is aiming toward or ought to be

00:13:42.200 which basically i mean it makes it entirely emotive it makes it entirely you know subjective

00:13:47.780 and just you know it's it's whatever makes amy coney barrett feel less sad that's what uh that's

00:13:54.520 what we ought to do and which is an incredibly like intoxicatingly powerful uh model of jurisprudence

00:14:00.560 if you're amy coney barrett right like you just everything can be just exactly the way you think

00:14:04.660 it ought to be and uh i guess what i would say like with with respect to you know what do we do

00:14:13.020 about this i think the comparison to scripture is very very important because i think most people

00:14:23.160 have come around to the understanding that like the text does not actually tell you exactly i mean

00:14:32.200 there's just a million churches and they all many, many, many sincere people with very different

00:14:37.260 interpretations. And, uh, you sort of have to bite the bullet and say like, yeah, there, there,

00:14:44.460 there has to be something exogenous, whether it's the Holy spirit or what, like, or tradition or

00:14:48.820 Catholics have tradition Protestants. And, and, and so I'm a Latter-day Saint. It's usually 0.98

00:14:52.440 something like the Holy spirit or revelation that tells you what the text means. Something

00:14:56.040 that comes from the outside. And that's what I would say. Something similar, something living

00:15:01.260 has to animate your understanding

00:15:03.540 of the constitution as well.

00:15:06.160 And that's, so it's not that, you know,

00:15:10.280 we're going to ignore the constitution

00:15:11.820 and we're just going to get power

00:15:12.920 and do what we want.

00:15:14.020 It's that like, let's think about

00:15:15.380 what this actually means.

00:15:16.480 And there was a Protestant pastor

00:15:18.440 who was on a podcast, I can't remember which one,

00:15:21.700 but he made the point that like,

00:15:25.940 Jesus came as a man to assert, 0.51

00:15:31.260 his right to decide, you know, he's the Lord of, of, of, of the Sabbath. And, uh, and like he's,

00:15:40.060 he's the one who gets to decide, uh, the state of exception. It's, it's, it's his, uh, he's

00:15:45.200 asserting sovereignty. And so, uh, what, what we have to do, and it's, it's, it's an embrace of

00:15:51.160 this question of, of power that like people, people hide behind the text. And that's a lot

00:15:57.440 of what the pharisees were doing right it's like the whole thing of corbin and you know it's an 0.95

00:16:01.660 offering and that's why i don't have to take care of my mom and dad you know uh people hide behind

00:16:07.560 the text because uh it's it's self-serving and it allows them to dodge responsibility and we've got

00:16:12.640 to just stop doing that and and we and and progressives have created this really elegant

00:16:17.960 system for letting conservatives do that letting conservatives not be the ones to decide and they

00:16:24.700 okay sure you know if you think the text ought to decide well uh here's our bonkers totally

00:16:31.300 tendentious interpretation of the text and uh and and part of the problem there too with with

00:16:37.100 judicial review and i mean even you talk about the 14th amendment like 14th amendment was

00:16:41.080 rammed through by essentially military tribunals in the aftermath of the civil war like there's

00:16:46.720 there's deep questions about the legitimacy of all the reconstruction amendments but like

00:16:51.260 the process the problem that a strict autistic constitutional libertarian type person has 0.69

00:16:59.640 is that the procedure that the system ostensibly lays out or at least the the place the procedure 0.97

00:17:08.020 has taken us is a place where you know four justices are basically overt gay race communists 0.83

00:17:16.660 and two of them are, uh, basically quizlings and all of those people that, that majority section 0.72

00:17:26.560 of, of the court is really has no commitment to the text as such. They don't share your belief

00:17:35.080 and your procedure got them here and put them in the chair to decide that your procedure doesn't

00:17:40.960 matter. And so it's like, where do you go from here? It's like, well, you have to, you have to

00:17:45.620 stop dodgy questions of accountability and power and that's really important because as you say

00:17:51.580 this is the process that conservatives have functionally participated in to create their

00:17:57.700 own political cul-de-sac right like whenever any kind of real energy or understanding of what's

00:18:03.660 going on arises you can always redirect it into this proceduralism and say well guys if you go

00:18:09.640 through the hoops and you get these justices nominated and you know they they somehow forget

00:18:14.600 everything they learned at law school and all their progressive programming that came out of

00:18:18.420 the university and all the incentive structures that were laid out both societally and academically

00:18:24.080 for them to come to the progressive understanding and you somehow get a person in who has actually

00:18:29.580 been stripped of all that stuff then maybe you do that like five more times over the course of 30

00:18:36.080 years and you might if you're very lucky get the original understanding of the 14th amendment as it

00:18:41.740 was written you know that if again like if you're as it was as it was presented to congress by

00:18:48.520 thaddeus stevens who was like a nutcase like it's i mean it's like again it's like you have to go

00:18:54.240 back and talk about like these people were not being careful right uh with with particularly

00:18:58.960 14a like they were not being careful and so like if we're talking about original intent

00:19:03.020 it's like what are we even doing like we you you have to go farther back than that

00:19:07.540 When you're discussing the original intent of an amendment that was put into place after a extremely, you know, contentious civil war in which Abraham Lincoln basically threw the entire Constitution in the shredder, you're already in like a dicey area, right?

00:19:24.580 like this this is we're already talking about the legitimacy of a project that was by its very

00:19:30.580 definition constitutionally illegitimate and now we're you know arguing over the details of again

00:19:37.140 the 14th amendment as i've said on twitter is a complete disaster it needs to be repealed like

00:19:41.780 backwards in force the whole thing is just you know it get it the incorporation doctrine uh you

00:19:47.320 know the birthright citizenship everything about it just completely destroys constitutional

00:19:51.300 governance as we understood before 1865 it really makes a mockery of the idea that we live in a

00:19:56.340 constitutional republic today like i'll just say this three or four times so we can beat this into

00:20:00.800 the ground you do not live in a constitutional republic you do not live in a constitutional

00:20:05.280 republic you have never lived in a constitutional republic your parents your grandparents your

00:20:10.300 great-grandparents have never lived under the form of government that you keep telling me you have

00:20:14.520 it does not exist you do not live inside it it is fake it is fake fake fake fake fake so now that

00:20:20.580 we've covered the fakeness of the whole thing let's talk about what's real right so what is

00:20:26.700 what does a real constitution look like and this is where your piece i think got interesting because

00:20:31.740 we all know we're in a bad place with this originalist version at this point like we we are

00:20:38.380 probably a month or so away from the supreme court saying that chinese and you know uh turkish

00:20:48.500 birth scammers are entirely guaranteed the right to have their children here under the 14th 0.98

00:20:53.540 amendment and have them gain full access to you know the medicaid and medicare and the education

00:20:59.120 system and and business development loans and oh by the way they get to choose the leader

00:21:04.000 of the country so you know we're kind of in the uh ye old you know pledge your sacred owes

00:21:11.680 you know a territory when it comes to like how do you fix this problem right like we're we're

00:21:16.400 pretty hard up against it because it's very clear that not only does the democratic mechanism not

00:21:21.120 work but we're literally interpreting the constitution to ensure in the future the

00:21:26.240 democratic mechanism can never work that that's basically what's on the table we're going from

00:21:32.240 yeah obviously this is a regime complete problem theoretically to we are formalizing that this is

00:21:38.120 a regime complete problem so when you have a situation that dire and you have a situation

00:21:44.300 where most of the conservative, you know, playbook has been poured into the strategy that is

00:21:51.060 containment. How do we actually live out a constitution? How do we actually take constitutional

00:21:57.680 action when the very mechanisms by which we're supposed to participate are being thoughtfully

00:22:03.540 undermined by our opponents and sadly, in many cases, our allies? Yeah, so there's a couple

00:22:10.100 things about the system that work in our favor that there are still some options number one

00:22:19.380 uh basically the the genius of liberal democracy in the 20th century the reason that it beat

00:22:27.460 all the other uh managerial systems namely fascism and communism is that it turns out

00:22:35.660 that it's way more efficient to just capture the media and manufacture consent than it is to coerce

00:22:43.580 consent uh given those given those technological tools it was just way easier to do it was people

00:22:50.220 people in in liberal democracies felt freer they acted freer they were more productive they were

00:22:58.020 and like all that stuff is true and and the way that that that uh things were coordinated was

00:23:04.240 through the mass media. And that's, that's how you, uh, you got the story. Uh, and everybody

00:23:09.840 got, you know, I lock on the same story. And as long as everybody got their news from three TV

00:23:17.220 channels that worked really well. And basically the Trump phenomenon was the advent of social

00:23:23.760 media breaking down that stasis. And so, uh, where that leads basically is that the, you know,

00:23:34.880 the, the, the managerial system, liberal democracy has a legitimacy problem. And the way that they

00:23:39.500 continue to launder that legitimacy is through the two-party system, through the Republican

00:23:44.760 party, basically the Republican party playing the role of the Washington generals, uh, getting,

00:23:49.820 you know uh getting stomped by by the the democrats at every turn and it it you know

00:23:57.620 but but you're always like well i mean we can't have president aoc so we got to keep voting 0.98

00:24:02.520 republican and that's like that's a legitimate decision like that's not a stupid decision like

00:24:08.120 you have to actually do that um if you were to get a governor say who said i'm going to

00:24:19.800 govern in accordance with my understanding of the constitution both both in terms of like its

00:24:28.340 letter and its spirit like i'm going to insist on namely the 10th amendment the 10th amendment is

00:24:33.860 the one that says basically if it's not enumerated in here it things devolve to the states or to the

00:24:38.960 people if you got a governor who said basically i'm going to claim that authority my constitutionally

00:24:48.860 mandated authority to run my state and we're going to do a bukele style transformation we are going 0.99

00:24:56.140 to clean up this state we're going to make it beautiful we're going to make it productive

00:24:59.900 we're going to make it a place where families can can can grow up and thrive people want to live

00:25:04.940 and uh if you do that and you just ignore all of the injunctions and all of the stays and all of

00:25:13.180 of the lawfare and you basically it's it's what you would have to have as a leader who was willing

00:25:20.060 to say you know i'm just gonna do this and you can come get me when i'm done and willing to uh

00:25:28.140 go through the the lawsuits and the trial and but but but to stand in front of the country and

00:25:34.460 basically say like this is what i'm on trial for i'm on trial for following my constitutional

00:25:40.940 authority to save my state to make it a beautiful safe healthy place and uh and what that reveals

00:25:52.340 essentially is it breaks that system of narrative control it breaks the illusion that all these

00:25:58.420 problems are impossible and you know the the constitution won't let us do it and we just we

00:26:04.100 have to go along with whatever the progressives are doing it basically uh totally humiliates and

00:26:09.240 discredits the Republican party and, and neutralizes them as a tool of laundering this,

00:26:16.060 this managerial power. And, you know, there's no, and I say this in the, in the podcast,

00:26:22.980 like there's no one weird trick. There's no magic solution to do this risk-free. And like, you know,

00:26:29.480 the, the, the progressives are going to respond to these things and, and, and, you know,

00:26:34.540 Nothing is guaranteed, but if there's a thermal exhaust port in the system, if there's something, if there's a Death Star Trench, in my opinion, that's where it is. It's in breaking this narrative that change is impossible by following your constitutionally mandated authority to fix your jurisdiction. And I think it probably has to happen at the state level.

00:27:00.420 No, I think it's excellent that you point that out. And part of that is because I laid out a precursor to this in my book, The Total State, about how essentially I think that power would eventually break down in the United States, how the total state itself would be rendered or useless or at least wounded.

00:27:22.200 And that was basically the idea that as our central government becomes more unwieldy, more incapable of exerting control, uncapable of keeping up with just basic maintenance, like say, I don't know, flights don't land or you can't do basic travel across the United States, that kind of thing.

00:27:41.820 As these complex systems break down, and it's very clear that our central government is incompetent, the ability of competent regional leaders to excel arises. And we already see this a little bit, right? People forget, and Greg Abbott has a lot of other problems, which I'm sure we'll get into in a second.

00:28:02.060 but you know there was that moment with eagle pass where the federal government told greg abbott

00:28:08.000 we're sending you know national guard troops in to to snip the barbed wire and let uh you know

00:28:15.000 let these illegals in and he said no you aren't and guess what nothing happened like they're not 0.99

00:28:21.080 gonna go after greg abbott for that they never did now again greg abbott's a disaster in a thousand

00:28:25.560 other ways so you can realize why they probably didn't feel the need to push that but you also

00:28:30.120 look at someone like my governor ron desantis who in several areas from covid to dei told the

00:28:37.720 government go pound sand right like sorry we're not doing that here and you can go pound sand and

00:28:43.720 i'm gonna do what's right for my state for my people and then you know whatever wherever the

00:28:50.460 chips fall they fall right and because he did that not only was the quality of life in florida

00:28:55.700 significantly better during times like covid and not only the children not get you know lessons

00:29:00.780 about how their body parts should be chopped off in public schools but also they never did anything

00:29:06.880 it cost him nothing like that they never came after him with big lawsuits no one ever came to

00:29:12.120 arrest florida you know florida politicians ron de santo's setting up florida guard outside the

00:29:18.940 florida you know they're outside the national guard can't be touched by the american military

00:29:22.540 can't be compelled by the american president nothing's happening nobody's coming after him

00:29:27.560 nothing happened it doesn't matter like they did nothing and only did it do nothing it generated

00:29:32.960 so much buzz around ron de santis that he became a credible threat to donald trump in a presidential

00:29:39.700 primary now i famously warned quite loudly don't do that don't walk into that trap don't do it but

00:29:45.160 But that's how that's how, you know, important his leadership was in that moment and how much buzz it generated and how much interest it generated.

00:29:54.420 And so, Kevin, the question quickly becomes, and I might be teeing you up for an easy answer here.

00:29:59.340 But when we see a guy like Ron DeSantis simply take two steps off of first base, he's not stealing second.

00:30:06.020 He's just got he's just got enough to where he might be able to run at some point.

00:30:09.460 when a guy takes two steps off first base and basically immediately gains the respect

00:30:14.980 and admiration of the republican party or at least its base and all of his voters become die

00:30:21.740 hard fans when you have that level of success with literally zero cost why isn't everybody doing

00:30:28.440 this like why isn't that just obvious like you're laying out basically this is what a governor should

00:30:33.320 do. And we have actual evidence that this is successful and will gain you notoriety and power

00:30:40.120 and everything else. You think the incentive structure would be lined up a hundred percent

00:30:44.020 for a thousand governor DeSantis is the bloom and yet nothing. What's going on here?

00:30:49.560 Yeah. I mean, it's almost a stronger case than like Yarvin makes because Yarvin seems to think

00:30:53.740 that like you have to do it all at once. I think that there's yeah, like DeSantis and Abbott are

00:31:02.080 evidence that even short of that there's so much that can happen that's not happening um

00:31:09.180 and i guess i would say i think a lot of these people are in office because they like being

00:31:14.100 taken out to lunch like i think you know if you apply for a position with the washington generals

00:31:21.560 you know you know the job you know the assignment and it's it selects for a type right yeah you're

00:31:27.440 not looking for guys who are slammed who are gonna you know be launching a lot of slam dunks out there

00:31:31.600 yeah no right right and uh and so i think that's part of it i think it is so important

00:31:38.780 to i mean you you saw the spasm in 2020 2021 uh that the whole system went through

00:31:49.200 with the elections and with and with covid and all these things because they felt narrative

00:31:56.400 control slipping and there's like nothing behind that like they don't like all of the machinery of

00:32:04.240 explicit coercive force is in the hands of guys who are much more like you and me than they are

00:32:10.320 like our enemies yeah in terms of their worldview and the things they believe in and so it is so

00:32:15.460 so so important to the survival of that system that those people maintain the perception of

00:32:21.400 legitimacy that they stay asleep that they it stays business as usual and yeah i i think there

00:32:31.060 is a real sense that like they're not gonna test that like arresting arresting desantis or or

00:32:37.580 hauling him into court or trying to have a standoff with the national guard that's gonna test

00:32:42.160 that and i don't think they want to test that like you know and you saw something uh similar with like

00:32:48.560 the the the biden with the with the navy in in the red sea with the houthis where it was like

00:32:56.560 i don't think biden wanted to figure out how it would go with the houthis and uh even though you

00:33:04.180 know probably could win probably could win but like didn't want to figure it out didn't want to

00:33:08.420 test it and i think we're seeing something very very similar with uh with uh conservatives and

00:33:14.800 and and and the right in general i mean like with the save act it just couldn't be more obvious like

00:33:19.120 these people don't want election transparency either like that they are definitely part of

00:33:25.280 the system and so you yeah you you have to uh so what we're proposing basically with the with

00:33:31.400 the constitutional action society is essentially a shadow political party so not a third party

00:33:37.760 But this would be a group that is working inside the Republican Party with a platform, with a set of things that we test candidates on, with resources to raise money and knock doors and phone bank, all for the purpose of identifying the set of politicians who do have a little bit of courage.

00:33:59.620 and and you know frankly a lot of these like a lot of these politicians having met a few of them

00:34:06.060 they're actually in terms of their their their desire they're not bad people a lot of them are

00:34:13.940 just older and so they are still in the paradigm of like i cannot do this because nbc abc cbs will

00:34:24.600 destroy me and then what will i have accomplished i will just be eliminated from the system like

00:34:29.640 there's a real logic to that yeah i think they don't recognize the extent to which uh those

00:34:38.260 institutions power is now fake especially with their base and how much people would follow them

00:34:44.940 if they would lead and so we're going to be fielding our own candidates we're also going

00:34:49.600 to be supporting some existing candidates but like that's that's the vision all right i want

00:34:54.920 to go back there and once again unpack some of the things that you said because there's a lot

00:34:58.960 of important stuff in there so first as you say the security apparatus of the united states as

00:35:04.240 fast as you know the powers that be are trying to unravel it are trying to put in the hands of

00:35:09.880 people who will betray you who do hate you ultimately the majority of the security apparatus

00:35:14.540 of the united states remains in the hands of the chud it is it is the it is the thin chud line 0.99

00:35:19.340 between uh complete chaos and order in the united states that is still true and yes these guys will

00:35:26.720 often fold on you you saw this during covid you know that that better is the case however there

00:35:32.120 is as you say the question of how far can you push the chuds before ultimately they say no and the 0.92

00:35:39.040 and while they will not ever lay that out while progressives will never actually lay out that

00:35:45.500 dynamic it is always in the back of their minds which by the way is why they were really really

00:35:50.860 scared during jan 6 like they the fear is real kids like they know if things get kinetic they

00:35:57.940 don't have control of the situation they know that don't let them do anything else and i do think

00:36:03.600 that like yarvin's more or less right when he says like there's not some break point there's not

00:36:09.520 some you know the signal goes out and we all know that it's time you know all true patriots whatever

00:36:16.020 like that's not going to happen right but um legitimacy in terms of the reliability and

00:36:23.880 credibility of enforcement and in terms of like their personal safety and security like all of

00:36:28.720 this stuff, it's a float, not a binary. It, it, it, it creates chaos in the system and volatility

00:36:35.920 that they don't want. And, and I, one of the reasons why I think it's so important to do this

00:36:41.700 through the political process, you know, I'm not, I'm talking about a governor. I'm not talking

00:36:46.060 about a warlord. The reason to talk about a governor is because you want to create a situation

00:36:51.520 where you are on the side of people's intuitive understanding of what makes American government

00:36:58.700 legitimate. And that's why this can't just be, even if I thought it were morally right from a

00:37:06.700 practical perspective, I don't think it's either practically or morally right. You can't discard

00:37:10.480 the constitution. All of these things about the right to property and neutral enforcement of

00:37:16.740 contract and the basic concept of an even playing field and fairness, like these are things that

00:37:22.540 are built into that structure for a reason, because we actually believe in them. And like

00:37:27.760 that that legitimacy is tremendously important and so you have to create a sit like what what

00:37:33.100 de santis is doing basically is he's created a situation where he's on the side of his people's

00:37:39.280 intuitive understanding of what uh of what like governance should be and and for them to come and

00:37:46.880 just as a matter of raw power tell him no you can't that's very different than if if it's reversed

00:37:54.580 And you're on the side of like sort of I'm going to go, you know, just exercise naked force. You have to put them in a situation where where they are attacking this permission structure, attacking this, this, this apparatus of legitimacy that they totally depend on.

00:38:12.580 a hundred percent yes that that's critical and this is again why we're not saying here

00:38:18.060 oh well abandon the constitution abandon american norms throw it all out dictatorship now all this

00:38:25.400 stuff what is being said here is very clear the the if you are in a scenario where you are acting

00:38:33.660 in the real spirit of the constitution you are acting in the way that people believe the

00:38:38.380 constitution to actually inform you know their their lives and their values then it becomes more

00:38:44.940 harder and harder to bring force against you and that's kind of where i was going is you know

00:38:49.800 yarvin i think correctly at this point has said that look there is this you know no moment where

00:38:55.540 everything gets bad enough and we all just snap back and there's this popular revolution in the

00:39:00.120 west like that's just not happening like i'm sorry alex jones but 1776 is probably not going to

00:39:05.420 commence that said if they're afraid to apply uh if you're on if people have become uh so unwilling

00:39:14.220 to apply violence that they will not rebel when the government is very clearly violating every

00:39:19.920 single norm and procedure and principle then there's actually a a reverse to that which means

00:39:26.880 the state is probably not willing to large scale enforce a artificial understanding of that through

00:39:33.160 violence like they are probably not willing to go around and take their loose false completely

00:39:39.040 manipulative understanding of the constitution and enforce it at gunpoint they'll do it through

00:39:43.340 soft power they'll do it through manipulation they'll shame you they'll sue you that kind of

00:39:47.340 thing but when we're talking on about guys kicking through you know kicking down doors and swinging

00:39:51.940 through windows that's not going to happen they're just not sending the you know an expeditionary 0.81

00:39:57.240 unit to go snap black bag ron de santis and take him you know for violations of gay race communism 0.72

00:40:03.240 like that is not going to happen and so that means that if you have a guy acting with legitimate 0.80

00:40:08.840 authority under what people believe to be the actual way that the constitution is meant to be

00:40:14.240 understood you can violate a lot of procedures you can violate a lot of the garbage we surround

00:40:21.120 the constitution with all these fake understandings all these manipulations all these cul-de-sacs that

00:40:26.940 they force politics into you can start ignoring that and just do what your constituents expect

00:40:32.820 you to do and then when someone says oh well we're going you're going to get in trouble we're going

00:40:37.900 to come arrest you as you say in the piece well for what explain it to the people explain why you

00:40:44.160 need to come black bag ron de santis for saying actually we're just going to expel illegal

00:40:49.340 immigrants from our state by ourselves because it's what's safe for the united states and you

00:40:54.540 guys can figure it out okay yeah you're you marching the the 82nd airborne in you know you

00:41:00.500 dropping them in to to to get the you know the the governor of florida i doubt it so here you know

00:41:06.900 there we go now all of a sudden there's a crisis of sovereignty and that crisis hinges exactly on

00:41:11.660 who is really has fidelity to the constitution and the more importantly i think the tradition

00:41:17.140 that underlies it yeah yeah yeah and and to be clear like i don't have illusions like i think

00:41:23.360 some of that conversation may have to take

00:41:25.320 place with said governor in an orange

00:41:27.220 jumpsuit. I think

00:41:28.340 you cannot

00:41:30.620 be

00:41:31.900 dependent on this thing

00:41:35.280 going risk-free.

00:41:37.120 You cannot be dependent on it having no cost.

00:41:39.940 You do have to be willing

00:41:41.300 to have that confrontation

00:41:43.300 with them because I think they will.

00:41:46.460 But what they

00:41:47.400 won't do is they won't stop you.

00:41:48.940 What's happening with Trump, right?

00:41:50.780 What's happening with Trump is

00:41:52.660 they are telling you over and over and over again when we get in power this guy's going to prison

00:41:59.620 yep over and over and over but they're not uh sending you know an ambitious colonel to arrest

00:42:07.300 him right right like that's there there's there's there's tactical there's operating space

00:42:14.500 in that distinction like you have to see what they're doing and what they're not doing

00:42:18.520 right and i think i think there's a there's a in our effort to be realistic and our effort to

00:42:25.320 acknowledge the reality of our situation there's a tendency toward you know fatalism they're guarding

00:42:31.980 all the doors are holding all the keys but they don't act like that they don't act as if they have

00:42:37.800 absolute authority to do whatever they want they're acting as if they are subject to constraints and

00:42:42.740 And the more you like study those constraints, the more avenues of action become apparent.

00:42:49.520 And so, yeah, so that's that's what we're doing with the with the society is trying to trying to build that kind of courage and organization.

00:42:58.540 We're starting in Utah because that's where we have like the most depth currently, but it's, you know, it's a nationwide problem.

00:43:04.080 And and exit, too, is about is about building this kind of sovereignty, this kind of practical liberty.

00:43:10.300 so uh getting guys in a situation where they're just harder to push uh it really like i think so

00:43:17.020 much of the work that we have to do is about creating courage yep well you know and also

00:43:22.520 victory is its own argument you know it's contagious when when you see somebody win

00:43:27.880 when you see someone succeed when you see someone able to step out of the system and survive it uh

00:43:32.940 you learn something and the you know the courage grows you know that's why doxing has lost a lot

00:43:39.540 of its power right i mean you're a guy who was in that position where you know your job came up and

00:43:44.800 you had to figure something out but the fact that guys like you and jonathan keeperman and so many

00:43:49.560 other guys have had high profile docs and are just fine or better off than you were beforehand

00:43:56.080 means yeah it's a painful process to go through but now it's no longer a death sentence on the

00:44:00.940 other side of this thing there's a very real future in fact maybe even a better future in

00:44:06.380 which you're not lashed to a corporate HR department and you actually do work towards

00:44:12.080 something you believe in. And actually, maybe it's okay if this ends up coming for me because

00:44:17.440 it just forces my hand into doing something I wanted to do anyway. And that kind of success

00:44:24.180 is ultimately contagious and it encourages other people to take those actions. And I want to talk

00:44:30.520 a little bit about the political project because I have so many people come to me and say, all

00:44:36.280 right or and we know democracy's fake you've been through all this but you still tell me to vote for

00:44:41.100 the republican party and i see what's happening with with greg abbott and and and now even trump

00:44:46.700 with the war and all this stuff and i've been betrayed and they're all lying to me and it

00:44:50.840 doesn't matter anyway so why don't i just vote democrat or if we are going to do our own thing

00:44:56.120 like why don't why not start a third party but you said explicitly actually we're not going to

00:45:00.440 start a third party it's better to have the shadow party and i've said this many times over we need

00:45:04.620 to destroy the GOP but what I mean by that is we need to skin suit it right like we why are we

00:45:10.700 focusing on this idea of taking over the GOP rather than just forging a third party right

00:45:16.840 like why not just do what they did in in Britain and zero seats the conservatives and then launch

00:45:21.660 launch a looper a Rupert Lowe movement to take over right yeah well we don't have parliamentary

00:45:27.320 system is the main reason we're not doing what the UK yeah I mean it's it's uh yeah you sort of

00:45:32.480 you're going to have two parties right right and uh you know maybe it becomes uh and that's that's

00:45:38.400 that's a really that's a a serious administrative challenge for like the bipartisan system is

00:45:44.440 robust um it it the purpose of that is to uh kind of shave off the uh the fringes and make it so

00:45:53.620 they have to form coalitions with the moderates which you know if you're a moderate type of

00:45:57.140 person that sounds good but um but basically yeah you have to now i mean one of the things that i

00:46:03.760 observe in in state of utah is that it's like the third most republican and the second least democrat

00:46:12.220 state in the union um but what has happened is is basically just democrats have changed their

00:46:19.660 party affiliation and they vote as republicans and like there's actually like a a profile in

00:46:24.340 the salt lake advocate which is like this downtown uh commie rag and they they they talk about like

00:46:31.120 these are profiles of these uh uh brilliant democrats who've discovered this new strategy

00:46:36.740 of lying like what like what if we just lied and said we were republicans and um and and some of

00:46:44.200 these people are like put in positions of like uh assessing judges and like real positions of

00:46:49.700 political power in the state that are all about this manipulation of procedural outcomes

00:46:53.860 and um i did a whole thing about like why utah is the way it is that you may find interesting

00:47:00.280 check it out later but but basically there's immense power in the republican brand in utah

00:47:07.480 and the democrats have figured that out and uh we we can do that too you know like if

00:47:14.800 people you know one of the things we found out with this was repealing this proposition

00:47:19.780 there's this big campaign to repeal the uh the redistricting that created this like bolshevik

00:47:24.540 district in the middle of salt lake city and one of the things we found out is like tons of people

00:47:30.080 signed for the repeal having no idea what they signed and tons of people signed the original

00:47:35.000 proposition to create the redistricting having no idea what they signed and like it's this huge

00:47:39.220 back and forth of just like can we get people to take their signatures off so bottom line uh

00:47:46.500 this is not a an unstormable fortress like this is uh this is a very porous uh it's the field is

00:47:55.360 wide open and but you do have you basically do have to declare republican because that's what

00:47:59.800 everybody's used to that's sort of how democracy works um so yeah it's uh it's it's we're going to

00:48:05.120 be working within that system in communities across canada hourly amazon employees earn an

00:48:12.240 average of over $24.50 an hour. Employees also have the opportunity to grow their skills

00:48:19.100 and their paycheck by enrolling in free skills training programs for in-demand fields

00:48:24.160 like software development and information technology. Learn more at aboutamazon.ca.

00:48:31.700 yeah again i think this is a fairly obvious thing but it's still very tactically difficult for people

00:48:43.940 and i think this is what happens when you treat your vote as some like kind of sacred oath rather

00:48:49.280 than like a weapon you're deploying in any given battle you know the idea is well if i had to if i

00:48:55.500 if i checked a box for an r at some point and they did something i didn't like i'm betraying

00:49:00.140 my principles in some way. And the answer is no, unfortunately, you're just making the best

00:49:05.500 decision in a bad situation. Now that said, it doesn't then absolve you of action. And this is

00:49:11.640 the problem is that a lot of Republicans say, well, I know the Republicans are bad, but who

00:49:15.780 else are going to vote for? So they check for the wrong guy. And then they never look at politics

00:49:21.020 again for another year. That's not what this is. It's not, oh, well, check the box for Republican

00:49:26.020 and then just check out and watch the new Netflix or whatever.

00:49:30.240 It's no, great, you check the box for the lesser of two evils.

00:49:33.540 Now you've got to make sure there's a better than two evils option.

00:49:37.600 It is now your personal responsibility to get involved

00:49:40.900 and ensure that next time that ballot shows up,

00:49:43.920 there's somebody you can support on that ballot

00:49:46.380 who will be notably better for your community,

00:49:50.060 for your family, for the people around you.

00:49:52.300 And the only way that works is by getting involved

00:49:55.360 in a very direct way so i'm very glad to see that you are looking at an organization that

00:50:00.460 ultimately is going to be pushing towards this i think about uh you know people like the free

00:50:05.280 state project um in new hampshire and you know i have my problems with libertarians except for

00:50:10.000 those libertarians because they're libertarians who are actually living it out they're really

00:50:14.680 doing it they're taking power they're getting people elected they're building coalitions

00:50:19.160 while i might you know quibble with them on doctrine they are way better than the vast

00:50:24.300 majority of republicans because they're actually doing the thing they're actually making the thing

00:50:28.760 happen they're not libertarians organizing for power it's crazy it's a crazy idea yes yes and so

00:50:35.680 i i think that it's critical that people understand that this is not a blank check that we hand to the

00:50:40.760 republican party this is not a oh well but it's also not a well i completely i'm just giving my

00:50:47.400 power over to the democrats or i'm gonna you know have this fantasy of starting some third 0.83

00:50:51.560 you know morally a pure party guys last time we got a serious party switch was literally the civil

00:50:56.900 war so call me when that one pops off but otherwise we're gonna have to skin suit one of the two major

00:51:02.620 parties it's pretty clear that the republican party is the one that we should be aiming for

00:51:07.400 if for no other reason than as you say our arguments already made there they just don't

00:51:11.720 mean them right like we already believe in the constitution and we actually believe in the

00:51:17.260 things of the constitution in a way that they don't so it's easy to mog them it's easy to

00:51:22.160 embarrass them i've been in these rooms guys i've been in the room you know for major you know gop

00:51:28.560 organization in states and i have literally embarrassed the people running them in front

00:51:33.580 of their audience because i tell them what we actually believe and they agree with me and not

00:51:38.780 the corrupt guy running the party thing but the only way you do that is to get into the room

00:51:43.380 you got to be in the room yes i went to caucus night and uh they asked me to be the one to read

00:51:49.100 the the republican party platform and it was like it's like 95 awesome like and there were a couple

00:51:57.040 there's a little bit of squish on like one or two issues everything else i was like base base base

00:52:01.640 very good and it was like man and i i i didn't like say this you know in these terms in that room

00:52:11.000 but i was thinking like man if we actually did half of this stuff like i'd be so thrilled

00:52:17.480 be so incredible it is it is the uh it's the meta it's the it's the what procedural steps

00:52:24.140 are appropriate to obtain the things we want that's where the argument needs to happen and

00:52:29.300 that's where you like i really don't think like i've had this conversation with all kinds of just

00:52:34.020 very very baseline ordinary kind of checked out conservatives like do you think that ketanji

00:52:43.540 brown jackson is like a qualified and be like is is her is her interpretation of constitutional law

00:52:52.180 legitimate should that be the basis on which we decide these things right and everybody's like

00:52:57.280 well no and it's like okay so then what and and that's where all of this you know all these

00:53:05.240 cul-de-sacs start to kind of crumble and fall apart and that's how you kind of break through

00:53:08.940 and like yeah if you're if you're having this conversation as as as a delegate with with other

00:53:15.660 delegates in your in your local party system or in talking to the candidates like that's where

00:53:22.700 the power is. And, you know, if you're, if you're one delegate, you know, even then your vote is

00:53:29.720 small, but like, I've been viewing the process of, of, of getting involved with the party as,

00:53:35.300 uh, almost journalistic. Like I need, I need these representatives to talk to me and I need

00:53:42.500 to understand the scope of how the voting is going so that I can field candidates that, that

00:53:49.840 a have the right orientation, but B can win. And like it, you have to basically, I think,

00:53:57.140 I think so many of us who are like, we've read the right books and we'll listen to the right

00:54:02.240 podcasts, but we've been basically total keyboard warriors for a long time. It's like, we're going

00:54:10.260 to have to go through this learning process, a huge part of this, this phone banking and knocking

00:54:16.000 doors and things that we're trying to do yes it's partly by getting our message out but it's also

00:54:21.220 like oh man we gotta we gotta like understand these voters we gotta understand where people

00:54:25.700 are coming from so that we can get our messaging right and uh anyway i'm real i'm just really

00:54:31.560 excited to do it we're gonna have we're gonna have uh meetings going on this because like the

00:54:35.360 primaries for us are like i think in june so there's tons of work to do we've got candidates

00:54:41.100 that we're going to be supporting over the next couple of months and i'm just i'm pumped about it

00:54:44.600 Well, and guys also remember that organization and the exercise of power are things you must practice. They're things that you must go through the steps to do. It sounds simple, but if you've ever tried to actually organize people politically, you know that it's like horrible and thankless and ugly.

00:55:04.600 And that's why only the most terrible, most power-obsessed people in the world do it for nickels, because that's what it takes to get it done.

00:55:13.600 And so you got to do it.

00:55:15.460 You got to go through it.

00:55:16.540 You got to learn to put on the suit.

00:55:18.120 You got to put on the tie.

00:55:19.360 You got to walk up.

00:55:20.480 You got to shake somebody's hand. 1.00

00:55:22.140 You got to talk through, like, obvious things with 10 idiots and make them understand it. 0.99

00:55:27.060 Like, and as thankless and annoying and simple as that process sounds, if you don't do it, you won't be ready to do it when it matters. 0.99

00:55:36.740 Like, you actually have to build that skill set.

00:55:39.520 And there is a complete lack of people on the right who are willing or able to coordinate people politically.

00:55:47.340 So, actually, there's quite a bit of room for you, guy listening to this right now, saying, all right, what do we do now, Oren?

00:55:55.220 Here you go.

00:55:56.100 you've been asking for it now you got it here's what you can do you can actually get directly

00:56:01.480 involved i'm not telling you that democracy is amazing and you're gonna fix it all tomorrow

00:56:05.440 and you know this this is this is how you win and in three easy steps what i'm telling you

00:56:10.680 is that you're gonna have to put one foot in front of the other and put the pack on your back and

00:56:15.560 nothing nothing is gonna fix that the only thing that's going to work is victory there is no

00:56:21.560 substitution for it there's no you know from here to there that does not involve a lot of us

00:56:28.020 strapping on you know the pack and marching uh you know up the mountain that's just how it's going

00:56:32.900 to work and so if you if you're serious about this then you can connect with somebody like

00:56:38.280 kevin you can connect with a project like his and you can get started or you can sit behind a

00:56:42.960 keyboard and whine about it but those are the options because there is no third moment where

00:56:48.480 Donald Trump comes in and blesses you and saves the world. Actually, it's just hard work. It's

00:56:53.980 just a bunch of hard work between here and there. And the question is, are you the kind of guy who's

00:56:58.160 do it? Or are you going to be the kind of guy who blames someone else for not getting it done? So

00:57:01.780 Kevin, for the gentlemen out there who want to make this happen, how do they reach out to you?

00:57:05.960 How do they learn more about this project? Yeah. So check out blog.exitgroup.us. My latest post,

00:57:11.720 Constitutional Action, has the link to the signup for the Constitutional Action Society,

00:57:15.940 or they can apply for exit membership,

00:57:17.960 that's where I'd send them.

00:57:19.500 And also want to remind you guys,

00:57:21.280 of course, while you're getting the exit pitch

00:57:23.240 that we also have the old Glory Club,

00:57:25.140 there are multiple organizations

00:57:26.980 that are trying to get this done.

00:57:29.300 So find the one that works with you,

00:57:31.220 find ones in your region

00:57:32.180 that aligns with maybe your religion

00:57:34.120 or your community, that kind of thing.

00:57:38.040 There are options out there, okay?

00:57:39.940 You do not have to sit there and complain.

00:57:42.520 These things can be done.

00:57:43.760 Make sure you're checking out Kevin's work

00:57:45.860 checking out the constitutional action society i think it's critical all right looks like we do

00:57:51.940 have a question or two here from the people so let's check that real quick before we go

00:57:56.500 wild speaker says uh the fox's future depends on never letting the lions know

00:58:01.580 what the real weight classes are is very precarious position yeah that's exactly right

00:58:07.340 like like cunning is a incredibly powerful tool but eventually that one can wear out right like

00:58:13.240 eventually at some point it becomes clear that you simply cannot leverage that anymore and it is

00:58:19.560 very obvious that our ruling class are aware of that limitation whether they will say it out loud

00:58:24.540 or not and you can use the fact that they have that limitation as you know it's something you

00:58:30.400 can factor into your decision making process all right guys we're gonna go ahead and wrap this one

00:58:38.400 up want to thank kevin as always fantastic work and of course if it's your first time

00:58:42.600 on this channel make sure you subscribe click the bell notifications all that stuff so you know when

00:58:46.900 we go live and if you want to get these broadcasts as podcasts you need to subscribe to the oren

00:58:50.900 mcintyre show on your favorite podcast platform when you do leave a rating or review it really

00:58:55.320 helps with the algorithm magic thank you everybody for watching and as always i'll talk to you next

00:58:59.660 time

The Auron MacIntyre Show - April 06, 2026

Against a Talmudic Understanding of the Constitution ｜ Guest： Kevin Dolan ｜ 4⧸6⧸26

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript