The Auron MacIntyre Show - Are Americans Being Censored on Behalf of Israel？｜ Guest： Scott Horton

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00:00:30.640 Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I've got a great stream with a

00:00:34.780 great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy. Last week I covered the attempt by the

00:00:39.740 Trump administration to censor a number of Americans and possibly deny them federal disaster aid if

00:00:47.360 they don't support the government of a foreign country. While the Trump administration seemed

00:00:52.660 to walk some of that back, this is part of a more concerning trend where we see the Trump

00:00:57.840 administration on a regular basis pushing for the idea that many people in the United States,

00:01:03.120 at first foreigners, but in some cases American citizens as well, need to be censored or punished

00:01:08.440 in some way for disagreeing with Israel. Join me today to discuss this topic as an author. He has

00:01:14.600 several great books. He helps to run the Libertarian Institute and Antiwar.com. Scott Horton,

00:01:21.960 thanks for coming on, man. Happy to be here with you, Aaron. Thank you.

00:01:25.640 Absolutely. So, you know, a lot of people like me, I think, look at the current situation with people

00:01:33.280 opposing Israel's actions and constitutionally being a conservative, feeling like we've been under

00:01:39.200 siege for a very long time by the media, by the culture, constantly kind of led astray when it

00:01:45.160 comes to different events, right? We're not allowed to care about crime because it's racist. We're not

00:01:50.300 allowed to care about immigration because it's racist. We get very tired, I think, of a lot of

00:01:54.640 the leftist tropes as to why we're not supposed to hold particular opinions. And so when we see a lot

00:01:59.340 of people looking at what's happening in Israel and it's, you know, it's terrorism or it's genocide or

00:02:04.640 it's all these other things, it tends to be like, they feel like it's just another one of these

00:02:09.380 mainstream media attacks, right? It's just another one of these, we're going to run through this

00:02:13.620 propaganda and this rhetoric and manipulate the situation. However, the one thing that I think

00:02:18.860 is really starting to make a lot of people on the right who, you know, just kind of reflexively

00:02:22.900 like, I don't trust the media. I don't believe what's going on. You guys are telling me the same

00:02:26.340 thing again. The thing that's starting to concern people like me is the efforts to silence

00:02:31.600 Americans on this issue, right? Like maybe you care about what's happening in Israel. Maybe you

00:02:36.440 don't. Maybe you care about the foreign policy. You probably should since it's part of America and

00:02:40.720 your dollars going to it, but maybe that's not your most important thing. But when you start seeing

00:02:44.800 the people around you not able to speak their mind, losing positions, losing funding, you know,

00:02:50.720 losing possibly disaster relief and other things because of their opinions on Israel, this creates a lot

00:02:56.520 of concern. And I don't think as many people recognize that currently the government is

00:03:02.080 putting a lot of pressure on the universities to change their policies around approaches to

00:03:08.580 anti-Semitism. So I was wondering, could you lay out a few of the things that are currently underway

00:03:13.540 by the Trump administration, other aspects of the government that might be trying to bring

00:03:17.600 pressure to bear on American universities on the sake of Bibi Netanyahu's government?

00:03:22.260 Sure. Yeah. It's such an incredibly important topic and really it is, I think, like the heart of the

00:03:32.440 censorship in America. I mean, we're so used to having sort of old Twitter, you know, the liberal

00:03:39.140 consensus swarm there, censoring everybody outside of it. But really the Israelis have been at this for

00:03:46.700 much longer. And even going back to, I think would have been the first Trump term, there's that famous

00:03:54.100 lawsuit or should have been famous anyway, between a linguist, she helped children. She was a speech

00:03:59.960 therapist at an elementary school or maybe a junior high school, not too far from where I live in a

00:04:05.860 suburb north of Austin. And she was made to sign a thing promising never to boycott Israel in order to

00:04:12.440 do contract labor for the state of Texas in any way. And so, I mean, I'm against all government

00:04:19.300 contracting as much as possible anyway, and all of that. So that's not it, but it's just what a strange

00:04:24.800 thing to pick and choose about when, of course, she could boycott another American state or any

00:04:31.260 American company and that would be fine. But this one particular foreign nation, she's not allowed to

00:04:36.460 swear off of buying their products, which is a voluntary thing in the first place to do is

00:04:43.240 very strange. And I think, you know, should have sent a lot of antennas up, you know, back then

00:04:48.860 like, hey, what exactly is happening here? And so then I think it's also important, as you point out

00:04:54.520 about, you know, what woke has been up until this point. And now the wokest are adopting the pro-Palestinian

00:05:03.380 side. And so many people just out of reflex say, well, whatever the wokest are for or against,

00:05:09.740 I'm on the other side of that. After God, especially all that we've been through with

00:05:13.860 just the insanity of this last even 16 or 20 years or whatever, since W. Bush and that cultural

00:05:19.840 hegemony of the social justice warriors, it's just been crazy. And so then you see these people

00:05:25.460 adopting that and immediately figure, well, I must be on the other side of whatever it is that they're

00:05:30.840 upset about when, in fact, this is one where they finally got it right, at least in the broadest sense.

00:05:36.900 And then the government, it's such a odd kind of paradoxical thing to see where the Trump

00:05:44.040 administration in a single order, for example, like in their settlement with Brown University,

00:05:50.320 they order an end to DEI, they order, or I guess this was at Columbia where they order their medical

00:05:57.240 school to never participate in trans operations on children and all of this stuff. And then,

00:06:02.260 and you must institute all these safe spaces and extra money for Hillel and extra security for

00:06:07.140 Jewish students. And all of these pro-woke agendas were Jewish students in the name of protecting

00:06:13.640 them from antisemitism. When of course it's all about protest against what the state of Israel is doing,

00:06:19.360 which claims to be the state of the Jewish people, but only some of them. And of course,

00:06:24.240 the vast majority of American Jews, their ancestors have been here since long before the government of

00:06:29.040 Israel was ever created in 48. So there are no way the Israeli diaspora, they're not from there at

00:06:34.040 all. They're from Germany and Poland and Russia from previous generations, you know? And so, um,

00:06:40.440 it's really like a completely ridiculous conflation, but, um, but see the way the Trump people are putting

00:06:48.160 it is that no, see, this is just more woke and more essentially anti-white discrimination.

00:06:55.000 And since Jews, American Jews are mostly Ashkenazi European Jews, then this is more woke,

00:07:02.160 anti-white discrimination, the same kind of thing you've been sick and tired of and wanted to see

00:07:05.880 overturned where you could see how really it's just a category error, right? Or a category like

00:07:11.480 decision on your part as a secondary kind of quality of how do you consider it? Is this

00:07:17.580 more anti-woke and rolling back woke, or is this actually adopting woke, but just for a right wing,

00:07:25.240 uh, you know, patron group, right? A client group, a constituency of the Republican party,

00:07:31.380 um, meaning the Israel lobby. And so I would definitely see it on the, on the other side. And

00:07:37.500 because of exactly the, the point that you focused on first speech. And we have, you know, in these,

00:07:44.740 in these, um, settlements where the, the universities are agreeing to ban protests, like at Columbia,

00:07:52.400 they've agreed to ban protest of kind of any kind, which should be very broadly defined anywhere where

00:07:59.360 classes may be being held, which is, you know, in effect, really banning all, all, uh, protests from

00:08:05.380 the campus. When of course protest is part of college life for, or against essentially anything,

00:08:10.480 um, organizing and deciding where you stand on all these kinds of things. That's a huge part of

00:08:16.100 what they do anyway. And so it would only be actually very disruptive protests that are actually

00:08:22.980 very disruptive. Everything else should be perfectly fine. Right. But instead they've had to agree to

00:08:28.380 roll back their protest to a great extent. And it's an important point that Columbia is a private

00:08:33.480 school. Now they're only being threatened here with grant money, which they shouldn't be dependent

00:08:39.240 on federal government money for anything. Anyway, all of these Ivy league universities have massive

00:08:44.000 multi-billion dollar endowments and can afford all their own payroll and all their own R and D and

00:08:48.880 everything else. So it's completely crazy really in the first place that they let the government,

00:08:54.360 the national government put its camel's nose into their tent. And now where it gets to claim control

00:08:59.220 over what they're doing when they should just say, fine, take all your grant money. We have plenty,

00:09:03.440 but they refuse to see it that way. And of course all the media reporting from the liberals is like

00:09:07.540 that too, is, Oh no, Harvard has had to lay off some people because of the cut to their grant money,

00:09:12.120 but Harvard sitting on tens of billions of dollars. How does that follow that? They had no choice,

00:09:17.320 but to do that, you know, that's just the way that they frame it. Um, but they've also been forced

00:09:22.680 to hire a provost and a resolution monitor to essentially, um, as they put it to assemble like

00:09:29.360 all non privacy related data from the campus and sit through all that as like, sort of like a Stasi,

00:09:37.780 right. It was like a thought police to see who's teaching what in what classes, which students are

00:09:42.840 making, you know, taking what positions on all these things in a way that is just totally outside of the

00:09:47.960 tradition of American higher education. Um, and it's quite odd and, and seems to be either

00:09:53.520 unenforceable or enforceable only in the kinds of ways that we are just trying to overturn. Like for

00:09:59.100 example, when we saw the, the rampant abuse of the made up new Obama era processes for sexual assault

00:10:06.580 claims, where some girl points her finger at a guy and he doesn't even get to defend himself before

00:10:10.800 having his life ruined and getting kicked out of school and all those kinds of things where this is going

00:10:14.680 to be like that. They've already appointed like these shadowy observers to go digging around and

00:10:20.160 seeing who's saying what and whether it checks off on the thought crime list or not. And so it's,

00:10:26.660 it's all very weird and disturbing. I thought it was funny too. I noted in the Jewish daily forward

00:10:31.460 had a piece about this where they're kind of perplexed about it themselves. And they said that

00:10:36.420 the enforcement letters inform Columbia and Harvard that they must prevent any antisemitic conduct

00:10:41.880 that is either pervasive or severe. In contrast, Brown was told that it only had to address a more

00:10:48.820 narrow set of context, that which was both severe and pervasive at the same time. So you can see how,

00:10:55.960 I mean, just on the face of it, wouldn't, wouldn't you just guess how superfluous all of this stuff is

00:11:02.580 even going back 15 years, because it was already illegal to call somebody the N word and push them

00:11:07.840 down. And it was already illegal to call someone the J word and push them down. It was already

00:11:13.280 illegal to call someone the R word and push them down or whatever, right? Like none of these things

00:11:18.360 were allowed on campus in the first place anyway. And so all of this stuff was, you know, as you've

00:11:25.220 covered to great degrees on your show to enforce orthodoxies in unreal and unbelievable things, such as

00:11:31.740 every white person wakes up guilty just for not being black. And that every, you know, trans,

00:11:38.020 every person who says they're trans, you know, ought to be able to prance around in a woman's

00:11:42.960 bathroom or, you know, whatever, all these things that they're trying to enforce. Well, not just

00:11:47.320 enforce behaviors, but enforce belief systems, right? Force you to accept, you know, these truths.

00:11:54.100 And oh, and one more thing, because I should have mentioned this at the beginning, which is

00:11:56.560 that this is a lot of this is based around this new expansive definition of antisemitism where

00:12:03.500 anyone in your audience knows what antisemitism is, but there's this group called the International

00:12:08.080 Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, and they have a new definition of antisemitism, which includes

00:12:13.460 any criticism of Israel, the self-declared Jewish state. And in that same forward article that I

00:12:18.740 mentioned, they talk about how the found, I think it was that article. Actually, that might be wrong.

00:12:24.420 It might've been something else I was reading, but the guy who invented this expansive definition

00:12:29.260 of antisemitism now regrets it and said, he never meant it to be used this way as a cudgel

00:12:34.540 against people who would dare to criticize Israel and all these things. And he personally has tried

00:12:39.100 to kind of intervene and have them like water that down, but too late. So Scott, there's so many

00:12:45.140 things here that I'm actually just completely infuriated by because I, as you point out, most of my

00:12:51.500 adult life, it has been more than okay for universities to teach the hatred of the West,

00:12:57.380 the hatred of Christians, even the hatred of white people explicitly having entire courses about why

00:13:03.000 you need to shut down whiteness or why whiteness is poison, you know, basically just using the kind

00:13:07.720 of exterminous language you would use on any hated group that you wanted to justify violence towards,

00:13:13.680 right? This was a constant refrain in universities across the board. And Republicans never did anything.

00:13:20.780 They never took action. They never pulled funding. They never tried to use the Civil Rights Act

00:13:26.020 to stop what was happening here. None of that happened. They just let these people run carte blanche

00:13:30.560 across everyone. All of my friends, all of my family, all the people I know were allowed to be treated

00:13:36.400 like complete garbage. Like they were some kind of existential threat to the existence of every other

00:13:42.140 American because of the color of their skin. And now, all of a sudden, it turns out we can do something

00:13:49.880 about that. Actually, we could have done something about that the whole time. But instead of doing it only

00:13:55.460 about that and addressing this issue that has been left for decades, we now have to package it with the idea

00:14:01.760 that we need DEI, essentially, for Jewish students at these schools. We need monitors, you know, just like

00:14:10.060 you would have put an HR monitor into a corporation to make sure that all the black and trans people are

00:14:14.560 being treated exactly the right way. We need to put someone into the school to make sure that every

00:14:18.680 Jewish student is treated exactly the way you want. You know, we have to do all of these things. And

00:14:23.300 apparently, we always had the option to use the power of the government to change the behavior of the

00:14:28.760 schools. But when it was white people being crapped on, we couldn't be bothered. We just couldn't get

00:14:33.300 around to it. And now suddenly, we have all the political will in the world. And Republicans and

00:14:38.360 the Trump administration are more than willing to run wild and like knock this stuff down. And of

00:14:43.080 course, as somebody who really hates the universities and really hates the libs, you know, it's hard not

00:14:49.200 at some level to be like, okay, just whatever, we'll get these people to stop doing what they're

00:14:54.220 doing, right? We'll punish them. But you can see that ultimately, these people aren't even really being

00:14:58.660 punished. It's not like it's a if it was if this was part of a overall tactic by the Trump

00:15:03.200 administration to just pull funding from all of these universities, you know, these poisonous

00:15:07.420 liberal universities, I still wouldn't like that being the final justification. But at least it would

00:15:13.020 be like, okay, well, at least I'm getting what I want out of this, right? But instead, they're just

00:15:17.640 giving these people their funding back as soon as they say, well, we'll fix the problem for Jewish

00:15:21.860 students. That's it. Like, that's, that's all that's happening. And it's so it's infuriating,

00:15:27.860 because it's very clear that a lot of us are being led around by our nose, being told, oh, well,

00:15:33.340 we can achieve these things that have been a great injustice for decades. And we can actually take

00:15:38.280 this action. But you have to be on board with it being largely in the name of a foreign government,

00:15:43.860 which is this absolutely insane. And another big part of this, because people might not know the

00:15:48.380 history, the continuity of what happened here. I don't know if you remember this, but last year,

00:15:53.080 the Republicans forced through HR 6090 in the House to try to put that same definition of

00:16:01.100 anti-Semitism that you're talking about from the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. It's

00:16:05.340 the same one. It's the same one that Ron DeSantis uses in my home state of Florida. Same one Christy

00:16:10.040 Noem used in South Dakota. It's not a coincidence that all of these American politicians are using a

00:16:16.960 foreign definition. This is not an organization that's based in the United States. This is a foreign

00:16:21.700 organization tying American law to their changeable definition outside of our sovereignty. All of

00:16:30.300 them seem to be tying it to this. And luckily, HR 6090, which was supposed to deny or make you

00:16:37.600 rather make it a violation of the Civil Rights Act to violate the definition put out by the

00:16:45.400 International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. Not only was that the plan, and it was supposed to

00:16:51.560 punish anyone receiving educational funding who violated it, but even though that didn't pass

00:16:58.860 because the Senate put the kibosh on it, it turns out that actually this was just the instantiation

00:17:03.780 of a Trump executive order that existed in 2019. So all of this is pre-October 7th. It's pre-everything.

00:17:12.380 The war in Gaza, all that stuff. This has been an ongoing effort for the entirety of Trump's time

00:17:19.380 in office. And the fact that they just picked this up and tried to re-institute it after October 7th

00:17:25.600 was so blatant. And now, even though that got knocked down, we're basically just redoing it under

00:17:30.840 another name rather than having an official law codifying the executive order. Basically,

00:17:36.120 the Trump administration is just leaning on all of these individual universities about their funding,

00:17:40.960 but again, only doing it because of Israel, not because of all the other stuff they were doing

00:17:46.460 for decades the Republicans couldn't get around to addressing. Right. And then imagine the mindset

00:17:52.400 to think, you know what we'll do? You know who really needs money? Tornado and hurricane and

00:18:00.340 earthquake and flooding victims. That's who we'll put the screws to. Those people, when they're

00:18:05.660 desperate and cold and wet and living outside, we'll tell them, you better bow down before Israel

00:18:11.780 or you don't get a penny. We'll tell their governor and their legislature, you better,

00:18:16.240 you know, what is it? Is it that was that the mandate that all the states are supposed to pass

00:18:21.100 laws like the Texas law? If you're a municipality in violation of basically more or less the same

00:18:29.640 restriction that you were willing to boycott Israel at some point, then you could be denied a few

00:18:35.420 billion in disaster aid funding. Yeah. That's pretty insane. And they're not talking about

00:18:41.340 when we provide earthquake relief to foreign countries. Right. I'm talking about to American

00:18:47.000 citizens in American states. It sounds like a lie. It sounds like, come on, Oren, where are you

00:18:53.580 getting this stuff from? That can't be right. It sounds like an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory,

00:18:56.760 right? Like, like, like, no, what if, what if Israel got together and figured out how to deny,

00:19:02.140 you know, disaster relief funding to, uh, you know, to, to people who don't want to buy their products?

00:19:06.980 Oh, okay. Crazy guy. Yeah. Would you, would you get that off your new alt-right website? No, I,

00:19:12.540 I got it off the announcement from the Trump administration. Right. Right. Like that's,

00:19:17.220 that's what you're getting. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and to think like, okay, yeah, that'll work,

00:19:21.640 right. That'll give them no choice. They'll have to give in, but without thinking, boy,

00:19:26.180 that makes us look like ruthless monsters who hate our own population as bad as the Democrats do

00:19:31.380 evidently, or at least don't care at all about us, you know, pretty bad, you know? So here's the

00:19:39.600 thing, uh, as you're pointing out, that should be obvious to anyone that this is just terrible optics,

00:19:45.380 right? Like even, even if your goal is ultimately to achieve what seems to be the goal here of more

00:19:51.500 less silencing any kind of organized, uh, you know, questioning about the relationship between

00:19:57.020 America and Israel, even if that was your goal, like you would not go about it in such a sloppy

00:20:02.340 manner, right? This is almost like Matt, you know, cartoon mustache, uh, twirling villain style

00:20:08.520 stuff. You, you, you would be more subtle about this. And, and I had Yoram Hazoni on, uh, on Friday

00:20:14.860 and I asked him this, you know, cause he says, Oh, well, I know all these people. And of course they

00:20:19.560 would never make these decisions, uh, for Israel, they make their own decisions. And, you know,

00:20:24.000 and I'm, and I say, okay, man, if that's the case, then why are they pushing this? Right? Like,

00:20:30.280 like there are, you can try to sell me on like the, okay, we had to go bomb Iran. I I'm doubtful,

00:20:35.640 but okay. You know, I'll, I will hear that case to some degree, but there is no way that tactically

00:20:41.880 like deploying a restriction on people who are going to receive a hurricane disaster relief.

00:20:48.840 I, I, you know, I live in South Florida, Scott, I've been in a, you know, several category four

00:20:53.900 hurricanes where I lost, uh, you know, power for a month and had to walk through chest high water to

00:20:58.600 my house. And, you know, like, you know, I'm cruising around looking for an aid worker, hoping

00:21:03.020 they don't have food for my dog. Like I know what this is like, like, I prefer not to have to check

00:21:07.960 whether or not I have, you know, signaled significantly or sufficiently my loyalty to

00:21:13.300 a foreign prime minister before I can receive, you know, this kind of aid. And so I'm just

00:21:20.000 amazed that, you know, this would be how you put the fort. And he said, well, I just haven't,

00:21:24.380 I just haven't asked them about that. I like, well, you might want to do that. Like if you're,

00:21:29.380 if, if your position is, I am worried about, you know, how the, the, the, uh, level of fervency

00:21:35.740 with which the Trump administration seems to be, uh, you know, pushing against, uh, in any

00:21:40.760 dissent here, how that might negatively impact Israel, then, then you should probably ask the

00:21:45.740 people who are actively doing it. Why aren't you asking that? Shouldn't it be clear that this

00:21:50.200 behavior is ultimately going to harm even those who would like Israel to have a stronger relationship

00:21:55.980 with the United States at the end of the day? Yeah, no, the executions will continue until morale

00:22:00.580 improves, right? We're losing the American people. We better crack down on them harder.

00:22:05.200 Well, okay. But the more you tighten your grip, the more of us will slip through your fingers.

00:22:10.180 That's how it works. You know, we've known that. So another thing that they're doing is they're

00:22:16.160 using, you know, this, uh, if you, if you're anti-Semitic, uh, I guess, or you, you, you engage

00:22:24.260 in some level of behavior on campuses, you can lose your, uh, your, uh, student visa, your,

00:22:31.060 your allowance to be in the United States, these kinds of things. Now, personally, as someone

00:22:35.040 who's pretty anti-immigration as a general rule, both legal and illegal would like to see a drastic

00:22:40.400 reduction in immigration. Once again, I find myself being like, okay, great people who hate my country,

00:22:45.540 you're finally deporting them. They should have never been in the first place. So I'm kind of

00:22:49.240 happy to see these people go. But again, the question is why this, right? Like, why was this

00:22:54.600 the thing? Why weren't you deporting these people when they were calling America colonial empire?

00:22:58.620 Why weren't you deporting these people when they were talking about whiteness being, uh, you know,

00:23:03.460 some kind of genocide, genocidal, uh, existence? Why, why weren't you deporting these people when

00:23:09.240 they were talking about how America needs a communist revolution? Those are all really good

00:23:13.400 reasons to deport people who are already here on our good graces, right? Who did not, they're not

00:23:18.440 citizens. They don't have a right to be here. Uh, they, they were here because we allowed them on a

00:23:22.500 visa. It's at our discretion. So if we always have this discretion, why weren't we deporting all these

00:23:27.820 people beforehand? Yet again, I feel like I'm, I'm getting some of what I want, but I'm getting

00:23:32.540 cloaked. It's, you know, it's, it's got this film of this ideology that is like, okay, there was just

00:23:38.720 no way I could just get America first. It had to come with a side of, you know, everyone has to agree

00:23:44.620 with Israel at this moment. I just, again, it seems like a disastrous way to entwine American first

00:23:49.740 ideology with this kind of nonsense. Yeah. Well, look, I mean, quite frankly, this has always been the

00:23:54.840 best thing about immigrants in my lifetime is they oppose America's wars where the native born

00:23:58.980 population says, go kill them all and steal their gasoline. George Bush says we can indulge our

00:24:03.600 satanic bloodlust. Come on, everybody, let's go. And it was the immigrants who were like, geez,

00:24:07.800 I don't know. You go back and check the poll numbers back then. And even though the war was for

00:24:12.340 Israel, most American Jews opposed it because they're liberals and it was Bush's war, but whatever it

00:24:17.260 was, they didn't side with Sharon. They sided with Howard Dean or whatever. You know what I mean? So, um,

00:24:24.840 this is, you know, they wait, as you say, these people come and they're bad on everything. They

00:24:29.900 want to nationalize agriculture. They want to chop every mother's son's little pecker off and start

00:24:35.260 calling them Sally or whatever crazy thing. But then once they find something they're actually good

00:24:40.080 on opposing Israel, now we got to shut them up and kick them out. Like, no, man, we're trying to build

00:24:45.520 that consensus. And quite frankly, as annoying as the anti-war leftists are, we need that leftist

00:24:51.200 anti-war pressure to the left of the liberals to let them know that they can't just go along

00:24:57.040 with the centrist war party on everything that they're going to lose their seat, right? They have

00:25:03.760 to know just in the same way that Trump has to know that, you know, MAGA never took a blood oath

00:25:09.500 to him. He's got to do what he said. That's what people liked was the things that he said. And so he's

00:25:15.700 got to fulfill those promises to win that loyalty. And he knows this. I saw, who knows if it's a real

00:25:21.180 quote, but there was a quote in The Economist, I think last week where he was saying, my base is

00:25:25.820 really upset about this, right? He knows that there's this division between the owners of the

00:25:30.260 party and the voters for the party. And it's much more the case on the, on the left than it is on the

00:25:35.340 right. But I don't know if you saw the poll, the recent poll says 50% of Republicans now, uh, are,

00:25:41.460 uh, I guess favor the Palestinians over the Israelis in the conflict and want to see an end to the

00:25:47.480 thing. It's like 70, 30 on the Democrat side, but we need that 70, 30 to be, you know, 85, 15.

00:25:54.020 We need it to be 90, 10 so that no matter what the billionaire donors say, the people of, and same

00:26:01.200 thing, mirror image on the right. So that the people get to win out over the money and say, look,

00:26:06.400 we're just not going to show up and vote for you. And because, and this is kind of underlying our

00:26:10.460 whole conversation here, these leftists are not protesting because of Israel being a nice little

00:26:15.580 Jewish boy over there, minding its own business. Israel is the most criminal regime on the face

00:26:20.420 of the earth, the most cruel regime on the face of the earth. If China was doing 100 of what Israel

00:26:27.760 is doing in Gaza right now to the Muslims of the Xinjiang province, the entire right wing would be

00:26:33.480 absolutely up in arms saying we should declare war, right? Even when we know it was the CIA who trained

00:26:38.520 those Uyghur terrorists to pick that fight with China in the first place. But anyway, they will

00:26:43.840 embellish the crimes against the Uyghurs beyond all reason as an excuse to get upset. Look at what

00:26:50.140 the Israelis are doing to the poor Palestinians who, you know, and I know they always try to confuse this

00:26:55.820 on TV, but just very simply, Palestine is not the country next door. Palestine is an Indian reservation.

00:27:02.260 This is conquered territory. It's already conquered. The Israelis de facto annexed all of the West Bank

00:27:08.580 and Gaza Strip in 1967 and have held those people in absolute bondage this whole time.

00:27:14.320 You know, you don't have to be a woke communist leftist to say like, hey, it was time to end

00:27:18.920 desegregation in Alabama. And if someone said it's time to end desegregation in Alabama,

00:27:23.840 and someone said, no, you just hate white people. You would say, no, there's been an absolute

00:27:29.200 apartheid regime there where the blacks have no rights whatsoever, or at least no real due process

00:27:35.200 respected under, you know, they're persecuted under the color of law there, essentially.

00:27:39.520 And that has to be fixed. If people say that, oh, you just hate the people who happen to be in power

00:27:45.660 in Birmingham. Well, that's just too bad. It's ridiculous. And what we have here is the people

00:27:52.360 of Palestine occupied under an Israeli military occupation tyranny longer than the Soviet Union

00:27:59.000 occupied Eastern Europe after World War II. These people live in absolute totalitarianism. And then

00:28:05.320 right now, what's been happening for the last almost two years in the Gaza Strip is just an

00:28:09.940 absolutely ruthless ethnic cleansing campaign, where even the former prime ministers and defense

00:28:15.580 ministers, in fact, just last week, 550 former senior security officials, Mossad and Shin Bet and

00:28:22.740 Israeli army and former prime ministers all wrote a letter begging Trump to make Netanyahu stop.

00:28:30.600 There's another letter that just came out. I'm sorry, I have it today.

00:28:35.240 That says thousands signed letter warning Netanyahu that his government is causing, quote,

00:28:41.360 lasting damage to world Jewry is how they put it. And this is rabbis and Jewish community leaders

00:28:47.700 from all over the planet begging the Israelis to stop what they're doing because of how destructive

00:28:54.340 it is for them and their people back where they live because it is increasing anti-Semitism because

00:29:00.080 most people are just very calm in their thinking. They can't tell the difference between this Jew and

00:29:05.380 these Jews and all Jews and whatever it is, especially when they're angry. And so people take it out on

00:29:11.880 innocent people. And so here you have innocent people demanding that the government of Israel,

00:29:17.860 which murders in all of their names, whether they like it or not, because Netanyahu does pretend to

00:29:23.020 claim to be the leader of all Jews in the world. He has on numerous occasions and they're demanding

00:29:28.660 he stop. They're begging Trump to make him stop because he's killing tens, high tens, maybe well over

00:29:35.200 a hundred thousand innocent civilians killed in this thing, essentially in a canned hunt, right? In a

00:29:41.020 a turkey shoot, fish in a barrel, whichever is your favorite analogy here. It's not a war at all.

00:29:46.620 There's an ethnic cleansing campaign for, for, you know, a pretended hundredth of this,

00:29:52.080 Bill Clinton took us to war against Serbia to break off Kosovo, right? Just on the pretension that

00:29:57.360 something like this was about to happen. Same thing for Obama in Libya in 2012. Oh, Gaddafi is about

00:30:03.200 to kill tens of thousands of people. So we get to start a war. In this case, we're the ones helping do it.

00:30:09.580 And Donald Trump is filling in for Joe Biden and carrying out the exact same policy.

00:30:15.460 Well, I'll say this and, you know, we, we might have some disagreement here, but I just think this

00:30:20.780 is an observable fact about history. When you have two populations that are incompatible, which is very

00:30:25.960 clear, um, you're, you're one, one population is going to ethnically cleanse the other. That that's

00:30:31.660 just historically what happens in these situations. Uh, that doesn't mean it's not an evil, but it's just

00:30:37.420 real politic. This is how it works, right? Like Andrew Jackson looks at the American, the, the

00:30:42.340 American Indian population. He says, look, either you guys can assimilate or you got to move. And if

00:30:47.380 you don't move, we're going to move you, right? Uh, this is something that pretty much every regime

00:30:51.420 at some point, uh, if it's trying to kind of remake a country does now, again, a lot of people are going

00:30:55.940 to have a lot of problems with how Israel came into possession of that land. If you haven't listened

00:31:00.820 to Daryl Cooper's, uh, fear and loathing and new Jerusalem, that's a great way to get introduced to

00:31:05.300 the history involved there. But ultimately ride a conquest is what it is, right? The million dialogue

00:31:10.640 is very old for a reason. Uh, the strong do what they will in the week kind of suffer what they must

00:31:15.480 again, doesn't make it moral, but, but it is a reality of politics that said, that doesn't mean

00:31:20.880 I need to have my country funding it. It doesn't mean my country needs to be providing some kind of

00:31:24.880 military aid or support for it, uh, running cover for it. That that's simply not the case.

00:31:29.860 Israel more or less has the, you know, uh, has the, it finds itself in a situation of doing what

00:31:37.400 many, many states throughout history find themselves, uh, demanding that they, they do,

00:31:41.720 but they're doing it live on television in a way that just didn't exist previously for most regimes.

00:31:46.380 Uh, but it is extremely concerning again, that American citizens, whether they're, you know,

00:31:52.260 may, might, uh, be, be right or wrong about this, don't have the ability to voice their disapproval.

00:31:58.600 It is a serious issue. And you did mention there, uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, kind of segregation and

00:32:05.800 civil rights era and these kinds of things. But interestingly, one of the core, uh, tools being

00:32:11.640 used under this, this rubric of trying to, you know, silence a lot of people on, uh, when it comes

00:32:17.680 to the actions of Israel is the civil rights act itself. Uh, the civil rights act is, is the mechanism

00:32:22.240 by which the government it under, uh, HR 60, 90 was going to silence you. And so, uh, the civil

00:32:29.520 rights act, while many people, myself included, ultimately don't think that black people should

00:32:33.800 have been treated as second class citizens and there needed to be a social change there.

00:32:37.920 The level of government involvement, the blank check that basically was written through the

00:32:42.640 civil rights act has created this massive panopticon that the government gets to use in any way to go

00:32:48.540 into, you know, different, uh, universities to go into different businesses, to go into all these

00:32:54.380 different organizations, uh, and demand that they conform to the government's ideology about how you

00:33:00.920 should treat certain groups. And I've asked this many times, you know, Chris Rufo and I've kind of

00:33:05.280 had this back and forth because I've had my position from the beginning is the civil rights act has to go.

00:33:10.320 It has to go because it creates this architecture that makes it constantly, uh, uh, you know,

00:33:15.440 something the government always has an ability to step in for any reason, you know, they can make

00:33:19.700 it up. It can be trans, it can be Israel, it can be, you know, whatever identity they want, black,

00:33:24.560 uh, you know, Hispanic, they can step in and dictate to individuals and groups that should not be

00:33:30.740 dictated to by the government, how they're going to run their organizations and who can be included

00:33:34.380 and how they can structure it and who can be hired and everything else. We literally have gas stations

00:33:38.660 that are lost lawsuits because they were refusing to hire criminals because those criminals were more

00:33:44.660 likely to be black. And so they're violating the civil rights act by not hiring enough black people

00:33:48.780 because too many of them failed background checks. So, you know, in a lot of ways, while I understand

00:33:54.360 that, you know, the desire for social change in these areas, the remnants of that government overreach

00:33:59.520 in the civil rights era are key to the censorship efforts now that are being put on American universities

00:34:05.340 and American people at large. Yeah. And by the way, um, I got that book that you recommended

00:34:10.260 the peacemakers and that was called America's makers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have it here on

00:34:14.940 the shelf. Haven't had a chance to crack it open yet. That sounds very interesting. And I always wonder

00:34:18.360 like who did choose to put all the Somalis in Minneapolis or whatever it is, you know, all that

00:34:23.280 stuff. So yeah, no. Um, and I think, um, well, look, it just depends like on how, uh, how, um,

00:34:31.180 totally libertarian I am on any given day. I mean, mostly I'm just for abolishing the national

00:34:35.220 government altogether and take the civil rights act with it. But, um, I think probably most

00:34:40.260 libertarians position is if not get rid of the entire thing, it's get rid of at least the part

00:34:45.720 about private businesses and discrimination on private property, which does come with its own

00:34:51.020 problems. You know, you have a small town where people just, everyone agrees that no, no restrooms

00:34:56.600 for black people in this town, go on to the next town, buddy, or whatever, that kind of thing that can

00:35:01.100 get pretty insidious and, and, uh, uh, uh, system of oppression on its own, even like outside of the

00:35:07.960 law. So that can get pretty ugly. But on the other hand, what you're saying where the, there's

00:35:15.300 essentially no limit to the way that you can interpret, uh, how the act can be applied to

00:35:20.580 private actors and all of that. If you can kick somebody out of your living room, you should be able

00:35:25.320 to kick them out of your business. Um, but on the other hand, you know, the other part of the civil

00:35:31.640 rights act that says that the state governments may not have these two tiers of law for separate

00:35:38.600 groups of people. It was more what I was referring to there. You know what I mean? We're like,

00:35:42.680 because, and, and the analogy being that, oh, you just hate Jews. If you think that they shouldn't

00:35:47.060 be allowed to persecute these Palestinians that way anymore, where it's like, no, we're not saying

00:35:51.640 that you shouldn't have rights. We're saying that these other people do too. You know what I mean?

00:35:55.880 That's not anti you to say that you have to stop oppressing somebody else. Uh, you know what I mean?

00:36:01.500 And so, and I agree with you about the, the, the typical, um, situation as far as the ethnic

00:36:08.780 cleansing and all that goes. But the thing is, is there were already Jews that lived in Palestine

00:36:12.700 when the Zionists got there and it was the Zionist determination to create an ethnically Jewish state

00:36:18.120 at the expense of everybody else that was there and decided beforehand, well, we'll have to remove

00:36:23.100 them all in order to have our state at their expense. In other words, the people who are

00:36:28.120 already there, they could have tried to just move in and be part of the state of Palestine, but they

00:36:34.220 did not want that. And so, and then of course, as I usually try to tell the story to, to get to make

00:36:39.680 sense to people like on the basic level in 48, they did cleanse that land of approximately in Austin,

00:36:45.400 Texas worth the people at 75, 750,000 people, 775,000 people were cleansed from their land to

00:36:51.760 create the state of Israel, which at that time, then it worked. They created a 80, 20 super duper

00:36:57.520 Jewish majority. So it was sustainable in that sense. But then in 67, when they took the West

00:37:03.160 bank and the Gaza strip, they kidnapped all those people too. And so then the question was, well,

00:37:08.640 what are they going to do with them? Cause they weren't able to cleanse them all then.

00:37:11.440 So they've held them in this bondage ever since, and which is 98.9% of the entire controversy here.

00:37:19.900 Yeah. Well, once again, expansion brought in too many people who weren't on board with the project

00:37:25.400 and destabilize the society and created situation that they have today. Again, uh, you know, um,

00:37:32.280 none, none of this is pleasant, obviously, like all of these are horrible things, these, but these are

00:37:36.760 just, you know, I am somebody who tries to look at political realities as objectively as I can. Uh,

00:37:42.180 and, and in this situation, it really is a scenario where like, yeah, basically, uh, Israel more or less

00:37:47.980 got the job done the first time around, uh, and then decided to kind of put themselves back behind

00:37:53.420 the eight ball in their desire to create a greater Israel, uh, uh, you know, in that area. Uh, but

00:38:00.040 speaking of, uh, greater Israel, um, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that. I know you

00:38:04.860 recently, uh, were, you were saying you just wrote an article, I believe on the Trump administration,

00:38:09.580 it's foreign policy interactions with Iran. This is another thing, you know, again, I was talking to

00:38:13.720 Hazoni, um, you know, trying to kind of build these bridges, but you know, he, he, he, you know,

00:38:18.560 when we were talking, he says, well, we, you know, we were planning this invasion all by ourselves,

00:38:24.820 right? It was assumed that the Trump administration wouldn't step in. And, uh, and then they just decided

00:38:29.700 that they had to at the last second, because otherwise it was going to like, take us a while

00:38:33.140 to like blow up, you know, these, these nuke sites. And, uh, I was like, well, I feel very

00:38:39.600 skeptical about that, right? Like if you had planned from the beginning to involve, to never

00:38:43.320 involve the United States, uh, and, and you really are resent, you know, the, the, basically

00:38:47.260 his frame was Israelis are resentful on, on the kind of their reliance on the United States

00:38:52.220 in these areas. And it's like, well, cause, cause the, the trick that gets done is like, well,

00:38:57.340 the secular Jews, uh, the non-nationalistic Jews, uh, you know, they, they don't care,

00:39:02.720 but the, the Orthodox Jews, they want to do it all on their own. They, they have the ultra

00:39:06.500 nationalist pride. They, they don't want the United States get involved. It's like, well,

00:39:09.880 that's a nice dynamic because it allows you to kind of say, well, we're going to do it all

00:39:13.320 on our own when, you know, you're selling it. But then when we get involved, it turns out

00:39:18.380 actually, well, whoops, I guess the United States does need to involve itself at the end.

00:39:21.880 And, oh, look at that. And we all know that when the United States gets involved,

00:39:24.860 it's not just the bomb delivered. It's everything implied. Okay. Now this is a U S military

00:39:29.460 operation. If you want to step in as some foreign nation and exact some kind of price,

00:39:34.240 price on Israel for what happened or try to rebuff them from further advancement, you know,

00:39:38.580 the United States is now directly involved in the combat has all of their, you know, different,

00:39:43.140 uh, assets deployed into the region there. It's like, uh, it, it, it's like having a, you know,

00:39:48.280 five, five guy, walk up, hit you in the kneecap and taunt you because he's got, you know,

00:39:53.260 Hulk Hogan standing behind him going, well, I was going to handle this on my own. He's just here

00:39:57.600 to, you know, he's not even going to involve himself. You know, it feels like that's the

00:40:02.300 dynamic. That's, that's, uh, you know, beyond white out here over and over again.

00:40:06.760 Yeah. On wall street, they call it the green span put. That means that, you know, you're going to

00:40:10.800 get bailed out. So you have a moral hazard to go ahead and make bad loans. Cause who cares

00:40:14.580 make money now. And when the trouble comes, socialize your costs on everybody else. And so,

00:40:20.000 you know, that's what we call it in economics is a moral hazard is, you know, going ahead and

00:40:23.820 telling Israel, yeah, you have a blank check on our account to go ahead and get yourself into

00:40:28.540 trouble. And look, you're absolutely right. And we've all known for 20 years that the Israelis

00:40:34.260 and the Americans have all known that they can't do this without us. That if they start a war,

00:40:38.440 it will eventually be to drag us in. Now the fear had been that if Israel starts the war,

00:40:44.860 Iran will start hitting American targets. And that's how we're going to get dragged in is they're

00:40:48.460 going to start shooting missiles at Qatar. In this case, they held their fire until America

00:40:53.340 bombed. And then they did fire missiles at Qatar. Although thankfully, you know, Dave Smith is right

00:40:58.480 to continually point this out. Um, you know, there are so many Hawks say, oh, the war was just great

00:41:04.020 and everything went great. Well, first of all, it ain't necessarily over yet. We'll talk about that

00:41:07.860 in a second, but just for this phase of it, at least we have to all breathe a sigh of relief

00:41:14.400 that the Ayatollah, first of all, hadn't already been killed and gave the order to just fire a

00:41:19.820 symbolic number of missiles, 14, the same number of bombs that we dropped fire 14 missiles at an

00:41:25.140 empty part of the base in Qatar deliberately miss. And as Trump thanked them on social media,

00:41:30.460 thanks for calling in advance and warning us that you were about to fire these missiles so

00:41:34.180 we could shoot them down. In other words, the Ayatollah went for the barest symbolic response

00:41:39.720 to American intervention, telegraphing that like, please, I don't want to fight you,

00:41:44.360 please. Let's not escalate this thing. Right. But Scott, this is a suicidal regime, right?

00:41:48.140 These guys, they'll blow, they'll blow themselves up at a moment's note. It like, it's just very

00:41:54.020 strange when I hear like Ted Cruz being like, God commanded me to go run for Senate so I could be

00:42:00.140 the best, you know, representative Israel. And then they turn around and they're like, and Iran is a

00:42:05.680 radical, uh, religious cult that would be a suicide cult ready to murder anyone. It's like, uh, okay.

00:42:13.060 Now again, don't get me wrong. I think Iran's garbage. They, they hate me. I, they, they don't

00:42:17.320 like Christians. They don't like the West. I, I, maybe they have, you know, you'd say they have

00:42:21.640 some justification, but ultimately my sympathies lie nowhere near Iran or its leadership. I'm sure

00:42:26.980 that they, they're ultimately not great people, but just the, you know, the, the rhetoric is, is just,

00:42:31.740 it's, it's, it's a little hard to swallow when you see, like, actually know that they just did

00:42:35.980 the self-preservation move and warned you about it in advance. Cause like they, they're still,

00:42:40.940 you know, in a real political terms, they know that their future more or less rests on their

00:42:45.880 ability to make the United States backing Israel look bad. Like they know that's more or less what

00:42:51.380 the entire situation rests on. And that seems like a somewhat, you know, moderate, modest calculation

00:42:57.240 by a bunch of people I've told are like absolute lunatics who are ready to blow up

00:43:00.860 the entire world at a moment's notice. Yeah. And it's such a good point that Charles

00:43:05.160 Schumer also says, you know, that's why I'm in the Senate. I'm a Schumer for Israel, which is,

00:43:10.160 you know, like a protector of this foreign country. That's why he and Ted Cruz are both

00:43:15.020 in the U S Senate. Like what is going on here? Some point people got like, is this an episode

00:43:20.140 of the outer limits or something where we just let a foreign country take over our Senate? Like

00:43:24.340 this is insane. It's like the old John Birch stories about the communists taking over the

00:43:28.120 United States under the control of the Kremlin. It sounds silly, but like, why? I don't know.

00:43:33.180 Maybe, you know, word to Randy Weaver. It is the Zionist occupied government after all. You

00:43:37.380 know what I mean? Like, what can you say? Um, it really has gone that far. And, um, and it

00:43:43.460 seemed one more and more, it is the case where it's just the elite versus the mass where the

00:43:48.600 public really gets it more and more, you know, and then 20 years ago, 25 years ago, when they did

00:43:53.280 a rock war two, people didn't understand that that was about Israel at all. Even to this day,

00:43:57.840 people don't understand that was about Israel. People say it was about Bush and his dad, or it

00:44:01.400 was about oil or whatever. Well, no, that was David Wormser's plan. By the way, you know what they

00:44:06.160 said in the clean break, they said, yeah, and then we can get off American welfare and have our own

00:44:11.460 independent foreign policy without America. Yeah. Well that was in 1996, 30, 29 years ago. He wrote that

00:44:18.120 they're still on American welfare this whole time, but that becomes the excuse. That's why we have to

00:44:22.900 do this. Once we're done decimating our enemies, then we won't be so dependent on you anymore or

00:44:27.600 get it. And then, no, you help them decimate their enemies. And then they're still dependent on you

00:44:31.680 anyway. A lot of the times we decimate their enemies. We only make their other enemies more

00:44:35.360 powerful and they regret it. So now we have more work to do as in the case of Iraq war two. Um, and so,

00:44:41.160 yeah, I mean, all of this is, is just detrimental to American foreign policy. You know, I'm sure you saw where

00:44:45.760 Thomas Massey was on Tucker Carlson and Tucker said, was it, I think it was a Tucker interview.

00:44:53.080 He said, well, I mean, did they have, Oh no, you know what it was? It was, it was the comedian guy,

00:44:58.520 um, that interviewed Thomas Massey. Um, Trevor, uh, no, no, no. Um, Vaughn, uh, Theo Vaughn,

00:45:06.040 pardon me. Yes. Theo Vaughn. And he goes, well, do we have like a England lobby and a France lobby and

00:45:10.960 all that? And he's like, no, cause we have common interests, obvious ones with them.

00:45:16.760 They don't have to lobby us like this. When, when Britain needs to lobby us, they send their

00:45:20.540 ambassador to talk to our ambassador, right. Or to our secretary of state, they don't have to spend

00:45:25.880 half a million or half a billion dollars a year on American elections and on, on bribery and blackmail

00:45:32.360 and every other thing that they have to do in order to get our state to go along with theirs.

00:45:36.120 Cause we're just a lot easier deal. Our, our interests in theirs in common are much more

00:45:41.620 obvious. Whereas you look at in the middle East for one thing, you notice how they always say,

00:45:46.300 Oh, Islamic extremism, this and Islamic extremism, that, cause they don't want you to notice that

00:45:50.620 our enemies are the Bin Ladenites. Their enemies are the Shiites. And those are opposite sides.

00:45:57.320 And if we just wanted to back off, it would be Israel's enemies that killed all the Bin Ladenites

00:46:01.440 for us. But Israel has America preferring Osama Bin Laden's guys to Hezbollah, even though it was

00:46:09.080 not Hezbollah that knocked our towers down. And that's why America supports the Al Qaeda takeover

00:46:13.660 in Syria. Uh, Biden supported it last December. Benjamin Netanyahu bragged that he helped to make

00:46:20.780 it happen. And then Donald Trump came in and recognized the new government and praised the

00:46:25.760 new leader, Al-Shara, AKA Abu Muhammad al-Jolani, the guy who joined the jihad cause he was inspired

00:46:31.340 by September 11th and bragged that he killed American soldiers in Mosul and Ramadi. And Trump

00:46:36.980 goes, he has a strong past. Yeah. He's sworn loyal to the butchers of New York city, but that's what

00:46:42.200 Israel wants. Israel wants Bin Ladenites there because the Alawites were friends with Iran.

00:46:47.980 And so then they tell you Islamic, Islamic, Islamic, and hope that you don't realize the difference

00:46:52.540 between the shirts and the skins over there. And now they got America on the side of the American

00:46:56.780 people's enemies to fight Israel's enemies. And didn't Israel just turn around and bomb them

00:47:01.540 anyway, helping to install them. It's it's it at some point, again, it, it, it feels like there's

00:47:08.520 just no tactical awareness. Like again, you, you have to know this is going to look bad. You have to

00:47:14.820 know that, you know, going out and bragging about installing a government and saying, Oh, they

00:47:21.480 absolutely have to be in charge. And then immediately turning around and just like launching yet

00:47:26.200 another military, uh, adventure at what, like your fourth simultaneous country, uh, all at the same

00:47:32.800 time. I mean, I feel like if we had a country invading, you know, I don't know, say one country

00:47:38.980 in Eastern Europe, that would be a threat that he's the next Hitler and that Putin is coming,

00:47:44.920 you know, for the entire territory of Europe, Israel invades like four countries simultaneously.

00:47:48.880 And we're like, you know, probably had it coming. I don't know. I know. And look, man,

00:47:53.940 and here's the bottom line of all this, because it is the moral stain. If people just put Gaza into

00:47:58.840 X, just look at for a minute, bear witness to the photos coming out of there. It is just a horror

00:48:03.740 show. It is the sickening, most sickening thing. We should not be a part of this period. It's the end

00:48:08.840 of that. On top of that though, Israel is a security threat to this country. This is going to be the

00:48:16.160 cause of the next major terrorist attack against the United States of America, just as the first

00:48:20.620 world trade center bombing was just as the Khobar towers attack in the Africa embassies in the

00:48:25.720 colon September 11th, where because of America's Israel centric foreign policy, occupying bases in

00:48:31.620 Saudi to bomb and blockade Iraq. That was the dual containment policy bought up by the Israelis

00:48:37.120 that said, we have to stay in Saudi to contain both Iran and Iraq, both after the first Gulf

00:48:42.520 war. And of course, Israel slaughtering the poor Palestinians and Lebanese. These are the major

00:48:47.960 causes of September 11th, the major recruitment shtick that bin Laden used to recruit new members

00:48:53.680 to his cause. And I'll give you the most important case in point. Mohammed Atta, the lead hijacker of

00:48:59.660 September 11th, was an Egyptian engineering student studying in Hamburg, Germany. And when Shimon

00:49:06.700 Perez invaded, reinvaded Lebanon in 1996 in Operation Grapes of Wrath, he signed his last will and

00:49:13.600 testament, which was like his symbolic thing of joining the army kind of thing. One way or the

00:49:17.560 other, he's joining the jihad to fight us. A couple of months later, bin Laden put out his first

00:49:21.980 declaration of war. And in it, he went on and on about the Kana massacre that he was actually get

00:49:26.940 this. It was Naftali Bennett, the future prime minister who was the artillery officer who called in

00:49:31.740 a strike on a UN shelter and killed 106 women and children in Kana, Q-A-N-A, in 1996. When Mohammed

00:49:39.460 Atta and his buddy Ramsey bin al-Sheib read bin Laden's declaration of war, they decided to join

00:49:44.420 al-Qaeda. And that was so how, you know, these are the guys and bin al-Sheib is in Guantanamo to this

00:49:49.840 day. But Mohammed Atta became the lead hijacker on September 11th, hit, you know, flew flight 11,

00:49:56.120 I believe into the North tower. And, um, so this was Egyptian engineering students studying in

00:50:02.600 Hamburg, Germany, volunteered for a Saudi sheik to kill Americans as revenge for what Israel was

00:50:08.220 doing in Lebanon, which is why they told you and your dad that the Taliban did it because they hate

00:50:12.900 our freedom. When it was al-Qaeda that did it, because even though they were really America,

00:50:18.320 Britain, and Saudi Arabia's mercenary terrorist force that we used in Afghanistan and Bosnia and

00:50:23.360 Kosovo and in Chechnya, they were still coming for us. All of Bill Clinton's support for them

00:50:28.440 and Reagan's before that, uh, and Carter's before that, all that support for them, notwithstanding,

00:50:33.560 they were still coming for us because of these policies, specifically the bases in Saudi to

00:50:38.340 bomb Iraq and blockade Iraq and support for Israel and their wars against the Palestinians and the

00:50:43.240 Lebanese. And then, you know, in the first world trade center bombing, Ramsey Yousef wrote letters to

00:50:47.440 all the New York newspapers, said the very same thing. It was his uncle that did September 11th,

00:50:52.000 nine years later, eight years later. Um, and then, uh, it's the same thing for,

00:50:57.660 if you look at almost 300, it's like, I believe it is like right around 300. Uh, Trevor Aronson is

00:51:03.480 the author of the terror factory about this of the FBI entrapments where they get an informant,

00:51:07.940 a very well-paid informant, get some idiot to say he loves Osama bin Laden. And then they do a

00:51:12.560 perp walk on TV and all this, they did this for a long time to drum up support for the terror wars.

00:51:16.920 So it took a while for more terrorists, you know, real terrorists blow back to come.

00:51:20.920 So they had to fake it for a while. And every one of these cases, the informant says to the mark,

00:51:26.520 aren't you upset about what America's doing in Iraq? Aren't you upset about what Israel's doing

00:51:31.000 to the Palestinians here? Say you love Osama into this microphone. And then the idiot falls for it.

00:51:35.980 And that's how they get them. They don't ever say, don't you hate freedom? They say,

00:51:39.400 don't you hate American foreign policy, Israel centric American foreign policy. And that's how

00:51:44.040 they get them every time. That's how Osama bin Laden got them. And you know, or in there covering

00:51:47.600 this up, buddy, but, and I don't know this, but just mark my words. We're going to see

00:51:51.820 the new Orleans new year's attacker. He got obscured because there was the guy in Las Vegas with the

00:51:58.780 Tesla truck and all that. And it was all that weird story with Sean Ryan email, this and that.

00:52:04.000 And everybody forgot about new Orleans. What happened? New Orleans guy, an army veteran converted to Islam,

00:52:10.580 self-proclaimed joined ISIS. I don't know if he was recruited online or not,

00:52:14.040 but at least claimed to be, um, uh, join, uh, a recruited member of ISIS and went and drove a

00:52:19.260 truck down Bourbon street and killed 12 people and injured many more on, uh, on new year's either

00:52:24.780 people partying on Bourbon street. And we got lucky actually, because when he crashed into some

00:52:30.580 construction equipment at the end of the block there, there were six cops standing right there.

00:52:34.880 And so when he got out of the truck with a gun in his hand, they just blew him away right there on

00:52:38.560 the spot. But it could have been much, much worse. If he had just had two or three guys with him,

00:52:42.240 imagine the massacre that they could have taken, that could have taken place there that night.

00:52:46.100 And they buried it. They said that he recorded videos of himself driving from Houston to new

00:52:50.960 Orleans. Um, you know, talking about his motive and they've suppressed all that. We don't have

00:52:56.620 the transcripts or any of that yet, but somebody is going to FOIA that one day. And we're going to

00:53:00.320 see it's virtually guaranteed that he's ranting about American support for Israel and the Gaza strip.

00:53:05.800 And those people partying on Bourbon street on new year's Eve, they were crucified for Israel's

00:53:10.780 sins. That's what's happened to them. Just like the 3000 who were killed on September 11th.

00:53:15.160 And we were just, as Ron Paul said, if we ignore that, then we do that at our own peril.

00:53:20.780 We want to sit here and pretend they hate us. Cause we're so free that we allow millions of Muslims

00:53:24.600 to pray in peace. Oh yeah. That must be what they hate about us. That's not it. As long as our

00:53:30.740 government continues to lie about that and continues to continue the policies that, uh, that motivate

00:53:37.980 terrorist attacks against us, then they continue to put us in that peril. Um, and we already saw,

00:53:42.660 we know for a fact what happened with a guy assassinated two people out in front of the

00:53:46.000 Israeli consulate in Washington. Another guy killed one person and injured many more with

00:53:50.460 his makeshift flamethrower attack in Boulder just a couple of weeks after that. When was that in April

00:53:54.900 of this year, right this spring, uh, April or May. So this is going to keep happening. And that's

00:54:00.100 what it is. It's Israel. And for those of you who are wanting to finally celebrate that woke is dead,

00:54:05.540 what saved woke the anti-war left rallying for the poor Palestinians. Otherwise we'd have just

00:54:12.780 won our final victory over those bastards with the election of Trump last November. Instead,

00:54:18.420 this is their life support. Yeah. That's really important for people who, again, maybe they don't

00:54:23.860 even care about the direct, um, you know, the direct, uh, you know, geopolitical situation.

00:54:30.920 But if you care about even the domestic political situation, you have to recognize that ultimately

00:54:35.920 you have a situation where, uh, the left was on life support. They couldn't figure out what to do

00:54:41.160 after Trump got elected, all the executive orders. They were, they were in a very deep depression.

00:54:46.260 They did, they, they, you know, they were talking about spending tens of millions of dollars to

00:54:50.180 figure out how to get white young men to vote for them again, because they'd spent all their time

00:54:54.240 telling them to hate them. Like they, they, they were in, they were flailing and this handing them

00:54:59.100 this war, handing them this conflict has rejuvenated in a way that nothing else could. And so again,

00:55:04.600 you don't have to care about any of the other, you know, foreign policy aspects, but even in that

00:55:09.500 area, you should recognize that this is costing you quite significantly. And I think, you know,

00:55:14.540 for a lot of people, myself included, I don't think you have to give, uh, Muslims a, a, a lot of

00:55:20.940 reason to hate the West. This, this is not like a new thing that's ever happened. Uh, you know,

00:55:25.780 but, but ultimately you just shouldn't be involved because for me, it's not America first. And that

00:55:32.380 was the whole promise, right? Like you, you can say, you know, the, that MAGA is ultimately predicated

00:55:37.940 on Trump's charisma and these kinds of things. And that's true to a large extent, but if there's one

00:55:42.260 core principle that you can kind of tie to all MAGA supports, it's that you have to care about

00:55:47.720 the United States before you care about other countries. And when you are putting us in a

00:55:51.580 situation, again, we're going to take foreign policy actions. People will hate us for it.

00:55:56.060 You know, uh, I have maybe less of a, uh, you know, problem with that than you do, but ultimately

00:56:01.600 the actions we're taking are not helping our country. And so they're angry at us for nothing

00:56:06.880 that bit for things that don't even benefit us anyway, that have no, that ultimately have, have no.

00:56:11.320 So, so, so no, I don't think we do disagree at all on that. I mean, that's where I come from too,

00:56:16.100 is I'm an America first guy. And this is all, you know, they used to say in the days of the Iraq

00:56:20.260 war that, yeah, you're done right. This has nothing to do with protecting America's interests

00:56:24.380 whatsoever. That's what proves that it's such a wonderful and benevolent thing for us to do

00:56:29.660 that. We're launching this war just to help these people at our own expense. Isn't that great?

00:56:34.680 Well, yeah, no, I don't think so. And, and I really worry about terrorist attacks in this

00:56:40.740 country. And I really worry about the results of the next terrorist attack in this country.

00:56:44.640 And like, quite frankly, even on the Muslim thing, like, yes, it's a different civilization

00:56:48.640 than ours and all that, but they always called us people of the book. And in fact, even going back a

00:56:53.200 step, there's this great book. You'd love this book. It's by Robert Dreyfuss called devil's game,

00:56:57.180 how the United States helped unleash fundamentalist Islam. And it's about how this was always a British

00:57:02.260 policy that America picked up from them, which was to support fundamentalist Muslims as a counter

00:57:09.280 to the nationalists and the socialists and communists, especially during the cold war days.

00:57:14.480 And so when you had nationalists like Nasser and you had the Ba'athists and all the pan Arabists and

00:57:19.360 various, especially in Iraq, a lot of socialist groups and all that, you support the Islamists to

00:57:24.200 come in and cut all their throats and destabilize the thing just the same way they used to have been

00:57:28.320 ladenites in Afghanistan. And then to a degree, I already knew this, but I learned when in writing

00:57:33.480 my last book, uh, the degree to which the bin ladenites were involved in Bosnia, Kosovo and

00:57:39.400 Chechnya, and the degree to which the USA, UK and Saudi Arabia were working together to bolster them

00:57:45.400 all along. So like when people, the, the inside job, people say that like, Oh, Al Qaeda really did

00:57:50.800 work for the Americans and the Saudis all along. There's a lot to that. Although I don't believe that

00:57:56.040 that means that they controlled every one of their actions. And I don't really think that they did

00:57:59.720 cause September 11th, uh, deliberately, but is it fair to say that like Mohammed and Atta and his guys

00:58:06.740 were like Saudi assets at some point? Yeah. As I show in the book, 10 of the 19 hijackers had fought

00:58:15.560 for America in Bosnia and or Chechnya before coming on to do the hijackings against the United States.

00:58:22.020 So, um, you know, I think, uh, I was really surprised actually the, the extent to which

00:58:29.960 America's continued to support these guys, even after they were attacking us. And boy, you look

00:58:34.180 at the last, you know, even just 10 years since really since, since W Bush, but especially since

00:58:39.140 Obama supporting Al Qaeda in Syria and in Yemen, especially, and in, and in Libya. I mean, there are

00:58:45.940 tens of thousands more of these guys than there were before. And, um, the next time they hit us,

00:58:51.420 especially in a big one, I think people are going to go back to the way it was in 2002. Oh, why do

00:58:57.620 they hate us? They hate us. Cause Mohammed says that they have to hate people for being Christians

00:59:01.240 and hate people for being from North America and hate people for not bombing them enough yet.

00:59:05.360 So now we got to go and double and triple down on all of this stuff when really, you know, all of this

00:59:10.520 is what the CIA calls blowback long-term consequences of their secret foreign policies

00:59:16.540 that end up costing us and then leaving the American people susceptible to false explanations

00:59:21.240 for what's happened because they don't know the real background story. And, you know, I get this,

00:59:26.160 I've one of my favorite stories on this is just, I had this old guy working on the air conditioner in

00:59:31.160 my old truck and he was telling me all about all the sophisticated reasons that bin Laden had to hate

00:59:38.320 us and how he used that as recruitment stick to get his terrorists, to do what he wanted.

00:59:43.160 And I was like, all right, this guy really knows this stuff. And then he goes, but Iran,

00:59:47.100 they just hate us. They burned our flag. They called us Satan. They just hate us.

00:59:51.160 And it's like, yeah, well, that's just cause your calendar only goes so far back, pal.

00:59:54.480 Right? Like he was right about the party knew about, but he just didn't know about what had caused

00:59:59.260 our trouble with the Iranians, which is of course, overthrowing their parliament and reinstalling a

01:00:04.560 dictator to rule over their country for 26 years before that revolution. And then, you know,

01:00:09.860 there's even more to it than that. We were actually friends with them for 10 months before the hostage

01:00:13.280 crisis broke out. Um, and all that says, is of course a very complicated story behind why the

01:00:18.200 Iranians hated us too. Um, it was not the American people that they hated. It was the American government.

01:00:23.600 And so like, same thing. And I agree with you when you said that they're terrible over there. I would

01:00:28.440 just specify from my point of view, I don't mean to speak for you. I'm not exactly sure, uh,

01:00:33.080 how you meant to say it, but I think the government over there clearly is criminal,

01:00:37.020 but I don't have any real problem with the people of Persia. I mean, they all seem very friendly to

01:00:40.960 me as far as I've ever messed with them before. But, um, I, I certainly like you have no favor

01:00:47.320 whatsoever for the regime over there. In fact, it was kind of funny. I got an email from some guy

01:00:52.200 from their foreign ministry. I guess he saw me on Tucker and was like, ah, I'd like to meet you.

01:00:56.600 And I'm like, listen, dude, I don't, my job is debunking war lies. That doesn't mean I have

01:01:01.460 any particular favor for Iran. We're not on the team. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Nor do I want to

01:01:05.260 associate with any government employees from any nation, you know, but especially not any

01:01:09.520 adversary nation of my own. That's not the job. You know what I mean? I'm just here to tell the

01:01:13.660 truth. Well, speaking of Iran, uh, you know, we do have a few, uh, actually we got a decent amount

01:01:19.780 of, uh, questions stacking up from the audience. If you got time to answer a few of those. Uh, but

01:01:25.360 before we do that, you did mention your piece with Iran and what might be coming next before we go to

01:01:31.300 the questions I was wondering, can you just give us a little bit of your understanding of where you

01:01:35.840 think as a foreign policy matter, the United States is going to be going next. Cause as you pointed out,

01:01:40.580 this might not be over, uh, the conflict with Iran might not be over, uh, my point at the time.

01:01:45.540 And I think a point that I've heard you make as well is ultimately we've met now more or less

01:01:50.060 cemented the paradigm where Iran believes that a nuclear weapon is it's only, it's only path to

01:01:55.740 sovereignty. And so it's, it's made, it's basically do and die for them, I think at this

01:02:00.240 point. So do you see them continuing to pursue that? Do you, if so, do you think they still have,

01:02:05.040 uh, the operational capability to get closer to a weapon like that? And how do you think United

01:02:10.520 States and Israel will continue to respond? Is this, are we now just in a state of perpetually

01:02:14.380 needing to bomb Iran every, you know, couple of years to set back the, the, the program? What,

01:02:19.880 what do you think is going to be the outcome here?

01:02:21.640 No, that's what I'm afraid of. Right. So in the lead up to this thing, Iran had a latent

01:02:26.960 nuclear deterrent. They were not making nuclear weapons. And everybody says, you know, Marco

01:02:30.540 Rubio, for example, cause well, they were, they had 60% in rich uranium. You could tell the, um,

01:02:37.060 uh, the kind of semantic trick he was playing. He goes, well, the only countries that have 60%

01:02:42.700 enriched uranium are countries with nuclear bombs. Eh, not really. I mean, really nobody keeps it at 60%,

01:02:49.740 right. You need 3.6% U two 35 for electricity, 20% for targets for your medical isotope reactor.

01:02:56.460 If you got one 60% is not good for anything other than leverage and negotiations can't make a nuclear

01:03:02.520 bomb out of it. If they were going to go ahead and make weapons grade uranium, then they would

01:03:07.020 have done that. That would be above 80, but typically above 90% pure uranium to 35. Yes,

01:03:12.180 it's true that 60% enriched uranium is easier. It's like a parabola of like, um, the amount of

01:03:19.160 effort that it takes, the higher percentage you go, the higher percentage is to keep going or the

01:03:24.160 easier it is to keep going to a higher percentage, if that makes sense. Um, but so what still they had

01:03:30.520 stopped at 60% because they were trying to get America back into the deal. That's all. It was just

01:03:35.320 leverage for negotiations. The Israelis went ahead and started the war. Tucker Carlson says,

01:03:40.840 he swears, he knows that they didn't have permission to do that, that they did that and

01:03:45.680 ruined Trump's deal. And that then it looked like Trump said, Oh yeah, no, I told them to do that,

01:03:50.100 but that he was really catching up after the fact that they were really screwing him over by,

01:03:53.540 by doing that. And I don't really know the truth of that. On the other hand, it is worth pointing

01:03:58.220 out that Trump had ordered, um, security, you know, escalated in the region, had ordered families

01:04:04.320 removed from Bahrain and Qatar, like I think two days before and all that. So it seems pretty clear.

01:04:09.500 They knew what was coming. Uh, but anyway, as you said, Israel started the war knowing that they

01:04:14.260 couldn't destroy the, um, Iranian, uh, domestic, uh, enrichment capability. And so therefore dragging

01:04:21.700 us into it, if we're going to, uh, escalate and finish the war on, on their terms. Now they said,

01:04:29.000 and I don't know if this is true, but they said that Trump ordered Netanyahu not to kill

01:04:33.560 the Ayatollah. Um, and that, that apparently was the plan. The Washington post said that they

01:04:39.260 had, um, contacted all the top generals and told them you better turn on the regime or we're going

01:04:44.380 to kill your families. And they all refuse to go along with that. And so the regime did not change.

01:04:49.920 I think, you know, they were tweeting out pictures of the son of the Shah, like they were going to

01:04:54.380 parachute the Monarch in there and take over the thing and get a regime change, which is some real

01:04:58.860 half-baked stuff. I mean, it went nowhere. Um, they were able, I, I have to say, I was surprised

01:05:04.260 to see how successful the Israelis were at taking out Iranian anti-aircraft missiles in the country

01:05:09.020 before sending the air force in there, not a single plane loss to anti-aircraft fires, uh, pretty

01:05:14.540 remarkable. Um, but then, so Trump drops his bombs on Natanz, Isfahan, and Fordo. Now Isfahan is the

01:05:24.660 conversion facility. That's where you take uranium metal, you turn it to hexafluoride gas,

01:05:28.860 enrich it, and then turn it back into metal again. So with that facility destroyed, that

01:05:33.380 leaves the Iranians pretty stuck. They will have to create a new one. And I'm not sure

01:05:37.060 how long it'll take them to, uh, recreate that same type of a facility. But if you have

01:05:42.280 uranium hexafluoride gas enriched up to 60% U-235, well, so what? If you can't turn it back

01:05:48.160 into a metal, it's not any good for you anyway, right? You can't make fuel rods out of it.

01:05:51.500 You certainly can't make weapons fuel out of it unless you can convert it back into a metal.

01:05:54.920 So they're definitely have a huge setback there. Um, from the reports I've seen, it looks like the

01:06:01.860 damage to Fordo was more severe than Natanz, which is where the vast majority of the centrifuge

01:06:06.980 cascades were anyway. So, and then in the aftermath, the Iranians said, we're never going to stop

01:06:12.620 enrichment. And in fact, we're never going to talk to you again until you, um, admit to our right to

01:06:19.680 enrichment before we ever sit down and talk. You're going to give up that point. Um, before we

01:06:24.580 ever even talk to you again, but we're not backing down on that whatsoever. On the other hand, they

01:06:28.420 at least said emphasis. They said that they have not changed their position on nuclear weapons,

01:06:34.280 that the fought was still stands, no weapons of mass destruction. They are determined to hold on to

01:06:39.360 their, uh, enrichment capability and their right to enrich, but they're still not making nuclear weapons.

01:06:44.360 However, as you said, and this is what I've worn for 20 years and I'm just parroting people a lot

01:06:49.280 smarter than me, but saying this to this whole time that this was the standoff, right? They have a

01:06:54.400 latent deterrent. We say, don't you make a nuke or we'll bomb you. And they go, look, don't you bomb

01:06:58.800 us or we'll make a nuke. So perfect. We have a standoff. Let's just leave it at this, right? Well,

01:07:03.320 we called their bluff. Now Netanyahu said for them to have enrichment at all is equivalent to them

01:07:08.260 having a nuclear weapons program. And Trump accepted that definition of, of terms.

01:07:13.820 And so therefore bombed their facilities on that basis. Well, so where does that leave us? That

01:07:19.140 leaves us with, at the very least, they're going to keep enriching and we're going to have to bomb

01:07:23.880 them again, or Trump's going to have to climb down from his no enrichment position. But the Ayatollah

01:07:29.200 is not climbing down from his, he never was going to. And so either Trump has to climb down and accept

01:07:34.980 some level of enrichment as Obama decided he had no choice but to do, or he's going to have to go back

01:07:40.540 to war to try to bomb them again. And then you can see the obvious escalation there is look the last

01:07:45.660 time we bombed them and they just kept going. So this time we're going to have to go ahead and drop

01:07:49.400 in the 82nd airborne and kill all the Ayatollahs and Mullahs and all his friends and make sure to

01:07:53.700 change the regime. And so the new regime will definitely not continue to enrich uranium, which

01:07:59.620 of course is impossible and insane and crazy makes no sense whatsoever. I mean, this country's three

01:08:03.740 times the size of Iraq with four times the population, but all mountain ranges and all of

01:08:08.280 this stuff. And just, uh, and they have not been under blockade and bombing for a decade leading up

01:08:14.160 to the war, the way Iraq was, um, they had been at war for 20 years really. Um, before we attacked

01:08:20.880 them in 2003, the Iranians haven't been at war since 1989. And so it's true that look, security is a

01:08:27.000 government program and they did a sure as hell did a lousy job of protecting their airspace from

01:08:31.720 Israeli and American incursion. No doubt about that, but we're going to put troops on the ground,

01:08:36.100 um, to, you know, truly affect regime change, which cannot do without boots standing on street

01:08:42.040 corners. I mean, those are the rules. So without that, I mean, just, uh, I don't know what they're

01:08:46.860 going to do. They're just going to keep bombing them and bombing them. As you said, like, uh, as

01:08:50.620 the Israelis would put it with the poor Palestinians mowing the grass, going back in there, setting them

01:08:55.580 back every once in a while, but then what are they going to do at some point? They're going to say

01:09:00.400 somebody's going to make the eye toll. And by the way, he's in his late eighties and has had cancer

01:09:04.000 before and things that could drop dead at any moment. And, and so policy could change very

01:09:09.140 quickly on that basis alone. But even with this current eye toll, if he lives to be one-on-one,

01:09:14.820 we still are in a situation where he may feel like he has just no choice, but to go ahead and break out

01:09:20.160 and try to make atomic weapons now because his bluff, his latent deterrent didn't work. So now he needs a

01:09:27.500 real one. And all it takes is for him to decide that God has changed his mind and now it's okay,

01:09:32.460 which is of course pretty easy for a theocrat to do. And it's just a politician after all. And so,

01:09:37.560 um, that's exactly the fire that we're playing with. Now, the only question is,

01:09:41.600 Orrin Wright is like whether this was just a chess game and that Benjamin Netanyahu knew that all

01:09:45.400 along, of course. And now that's what he's trying to do. If the Ayatollah won't break out and try to

01:09:50.820 make a nuke, I'll force him to break out and try to make a nuke. Then I'll get my regime changed.

01:09:55.700 Right. Right. So yeah, this is the dynamic again, just the, the raw power analysis that we've,

01:10:01.300 we've created is, you know, in your, in the current world order, we're the global hegemon.

01:10:07.180 And the only reason the global hegemon listens to you is either if you've been made yourself

01:10:12.080 entirely a part of the empire, or if you have a nuke. And so a nuke is really your only option

01:10:19.220 for sovereignty. If you want to make decisions inside your country and you don't want to Americanize

01:10:23.260 and you don't want to, uh, you know, uh, join kind of the Western alliance as it were, then,

01:10:28.020 then you ultimately have to, uh, have a nuke. That's you, you, you, you just basic observation.

01:10:33.460 Why aren't we going to North Korea? Right. It's very obvious why, uh, it doesn't matter that,

01:10:38.840 you know, the, the leaders are standing there talking about all the places they could bomb or

01:10:42.320 something. We're just not going to go because they have the capacity. And so therefore we're not

01:10:46.000 constantly threatened to overthrow the regime. Iran sees this. They see this dynamic.

01:10:50.480 They understand that the United States will do anything up to them getting the bomb. But once

01:10:55.580 they have the bomb, that's the only way that they're going to be able to make decisions inside

01:10:59.520 their own country and not receive pressure from these outside sources. Again, I don't want Iran

01:11:04.260 to have the bomb, but that is the dynamic we have created for them at the incentive structure is all

01:11:09.460 one way. And so the, as you point out, the, the only question is not, will they race to the bomb,

01:11:15.260 but how quickly can they race to the bomb? Because now the leveraging of enrichment is no longer a

01:11:22.400 tool to get people to the table and to almost, I almost entirely agree with that. I'll add a

01:11:27.400 caveat. I mean, first of all, you're absolutely right that Saddam and Gaddafi gave up all their

01:11:31.760 unconventional weapons and they're both dead. Right. Kim said, I'm making atom bombs and he's still

01:11:37.480 with it. Well, his son is still the dictator. Anyway, he died of natural causes and his son is in

01:11:42.080 charge. The Ayatollah has chosen a third way this whole time, which is to say, yes, I'm enriching

01:11:49.240 uranium and I've proven I've mastered the fuel cycle. And that if I had to, I could make an atom

01:11:54.100 bomb. On the other hand, though, I'm still within the non-proliferation treaty. I'm not enriching up

01:11:58.800 to weapons grade. I have inspectors here who can verify the non-diversion of nuclear material to any

01:12:04.020 military purpose. So hands up, don't shoot. Let's leave it at this kind of stalemate, right? It's not

01:12:10.180 exactly a Mexican standoff. America's got a gun that's loaded. Ayatollah has a gun in his pocket

01:12:15.920 and bullets in the other and is saying, look, man, let's not get into a fistfight. That's going

01:12:20.860 to necessitate me loading my gun. Right. So it's possible that that's still his position that he's

01:12:27.940 calculated that. Well, if we continue to enrich, but still to only civilian levels in the aftermath

01:12:35.260 of the attack, then we're proving that you attacking us is not enough to make us stop.

01:12:40.540 So stop attacking us and get back to having this sort of pseudo latent deterrent rather than a

01:12:46.820 full scale deterrent. That's wishful thinking. I have to tell you, the inspectors have been kicked

01:12:51.060 out of the country. And if there was ever a time where, you know, the chain of surveillance is broken

01:12:57.200 and they're going to now divert. And if they're ever going to divert nuclear material and try to enrich it

01:13:04.340 to weapons grade for, to make an atom bomb with now would be the time. Right. Right. And as a direct

01:13:10.020 and immediate reaction to this chaos of the war, kick the inspectors out and now enrich enough

01:13:15.380 uranium, uh, or, or, you know, secret enough away that you can enrich that up to weapons grade

01:13:20.820 separately in a parallel program. If, if that was ever going to happen, it'll be starting right now

01:13:26.400 in the aftermath of this war, not as I'm sure they'll try to retcon it. The reason for the war in

01:13:31.600 the first place. Right. And that's, that's what I was saying is the, uh, they're left with the only

01:13:35.220 option is basically to sprint to the bomb because that's also a sprint to sovereignty. And, and so

01:13:39.460 really in those situations where you're like, I not, I no country is sovereign. I get to dictate what

01:13:45.460 weapons they, they have or don't have. Then your only options are to mow the grass as, as you put it

01:13:52.000 there to, to constantly go in and destroy these things from the air. And that's what it, you know, the

01:13:57.080 United States government and Israel want to sell is that these things can just be done from, you

01:14:02.120 know, thousands of feet away. You know, you don't have to put it on the ground. You don't have to

01:14:05.740 put anyone direct danger. Uh, you know, that, that, that's always the type of war we want to sell

01:14:10.620 to Westerners at this point. But the reality is that ultimately you're never going to get all of this

01:14:16.840 stuff very likely. And so occupation becomes the only option and nobody wants that. Everybody knows,

01:14:22.480 I think as crazy as I think some of the steps have been with Israel and the United States have

01:14:27.660 taken recently, they both know that like a, on the boots, full blown regime change, occupation of

01:14:33.560 Iran could easily be like a death knell for their governments. Like this is the kind of thing that

01:14:38.740 literally in civilizations, if you, if you put yourself back in the situation again, so they're

01:14:43.680 trying to avoid that. I think they know ultimately that's not the right move, but logically I think

01:14:49.120 it's the only place you can go unless you really can just fire a few missiles at these guys and drop

01:14:54.340 a few bombs every couple of years and, and, and completely control the threat, which ultimately

01:14:58.660 I'm somewhat doubtful of. And so, uh, it, it, all, all of these actions are pulling you on the same

01:15:03.520 gradient towards the same, uh, conclusion, uh, which I think everyone knows is a disaster, but also

01:15:08.560 feels like it's somehow unavoidable because the foreign policy aims that they've laid out are themselves

01:15:13.420 so thoroughly Imperial that there's just no way to, uh, actually, uh, reach them without,

01:15:18.380 well, enforcing the empire. Yeah. And look, man, I don't want to sound too utopian about all this,

01:15:23.480 but I really believe that Israel would be way better off without any of America's support.

01:15:29.780 It's this moral hazard that we talked about where they're willing to get themselves into so much more

01:15:35.020 trouble because they know they have the support from the United States, where if you just kind of

01:15:39.280 rewind the history of just the 1990s through now, if they had not had America to support them,

01:15:44.700 no matter what, it's virtually certain that they would have followed the Rabin doctrine and they

01:15:49.120 would have made peace with Arafat. They would have allowed there to be the creation of a Palestinian

01:15:52.900 state on the 22% of what's left of historic Palestine and for the refugees to at least have the

01:15:59.380 right of return to there and to have a prosperous homeland and, and have peace with their neighbors.

01:16:04.720 Instead, they have this policy belligerence because we're picking up the tab.

01:16:08.660 Why make peace with Hussein's regime or Assad's regime when you can just get America to support,

01:16:13.960 to smash them for you? And so, and same thing, even with Egypt and Jordan, they have peace with

01:16:20.620 Egypt and Jordan, but not on reasonable terms, on terms where you and I have to pay them through

01:16:25.300 $4 billion in welfare every year to maintain the relationship. Whereas if America just wasn't

01:16:30.780 involved, the Israelis would have to adopt a lower time preference. They would have to look at what is

01:16:36.720 good for this state. If we want this thing to last for the next, I don't know, 150, 200 years into the

01:16:41.680 foreseeable future, 500 years, then we're going to have to figure this out, how to make peace with and

01:16:47.680 live comfortably with our neighboring states here, rather than just simply lording it over everyone.

01:16:54.500 And, you know, this was again, the doctrine of the clean break was essentially, we have to smash all

01:17:00.180 these countries or at least get the Americans to put friendly regimes in power there so that we can

01:17:06.160 continue to finish screwing the Palestinians and taking every last bit of the West Bank and Gaza.

01:17:11.780 That was the whole point of getting America to invade Iraq for them, to try to neutralize Israel so they

01:17:16.680 could keep stealing Palestine. If we would butt out, it wouldn't make sense for the Israelis to keep the

01:17:22.200 Likud in power. They would have to be more reasonable and deal with their neighbors in a more reasonable way.

01:17:27.060 Well, and the amazing thing is, once again, so frustrating. Yeah. The conservatives more or

01:17:32.320 less learn this lesson with Ukraine, right? Like they actually oppose the war for all the reasons,

01:17:38.020 you know, that we've talked about, not in America's interests, ultimately, you know, the desire to

01:17:42.880 express kind of a global imperialism that's not healthy for the United States and its people as a

01:17:47.600 whole, understanding that by backing Zelensky and giving him all these weapons, you're murdering more

01:17:53.200 Ukrainian men because they never would have been able to fight this war without you. And they would

01:17:57.300 have had more realistic understandings of how to make peace. Maybe we do have to cede some land.

01:18:02.140 Maybe we ultimately do have to hand over something. No, because we have NATO behind us because we're

01:18:07.600 willing to fight to the very last Ukrainian. We can sit. So it's the same dynamic. It's not healthy

01:18:12.420 for the people of Ukraine any more than it's healthy for the people of Israel. You are a state of particular

01:18:16.520 size in a particular geopolitical reality. You need to learn to live inside that reality instead of having

01:18:22.380 this artificial, you know, idea of what you can do and what you can achieve because the United States

01:18:27.800 is standing behind you. And if you can find that equilibrium, that's what real state craft is,

01:18:32.780 right? Like, and you don't have to learn that skill if you're constantly walking around saying,

01:18:37.460 oh, well, ultimately I've got the 800 pound gorilla behind me. And so I can go well beyond, I can be far

01:18:42.800 more ambitious than I ever would be because ultimately I have this level of support. And, you know,

01:18:47.700 for people in, you know, just to sell it to Israelis, you know, look at, you know, this position that

01:18:53.100 Ukraine's in now, if, you know, it's, it's got no, it's got no men under 50 that can fight, you know,

01:18:58.320 it's got to draft all these insane ages and people with disabilities and stuff to put people on the

01:19:02.860 front line. And if at any moment the United States decides, well, I don't know, I'm kind of done with

01:19:07.660 this. This is ultimately a bad decision. The whole country just, you know, gets completely mowed over

01:19:12.280 because they put so much reliance on the United States. So if you want to be in that position,

01:19:17.680 you're putting yourself in that position. Now you're not going to be able to have the United

01:19:21.780 States there forever. At some point that bill is going to come due. And so why not learn to live

01:19:26.840 within your means now? Why not learn to, you know, pull yourself away from, you know, this constant

01:19:32.600 need for American support now so that you can make reasonable decisions about your future rather than

01:19:38.180 just pushing as hard as possible, hoping that if you can just extend things for another six

01:19:42.160 months or a year, you'll be able to like wipe out whoever you need to wipe out. And therefore

01:19:46.240 you won't have a problem anymore. Like, no, you're still going to be surrounded by a lot of people

01:19:49.960 who remember what happened here. You're, you're not just fighting Palestine. You're fighting three

01:19:54.060 other countries simultaneously. So maybe just, maybe it's time to, you know, scale some of that back,

01:19:59.280 not just, you know, because you feel really good about the United States or because you,

01:20:03.240 you're, you're very grateful for that relationship, but just for your own self-interest.

01:20:07.500 Yep. And look, I mean, this is the story of America first too, for all of us,

01:20:11.700 it's time to retrench. We just can't afford it. Man. I saw the chart the other day,

01:20:15.840 like I already knew this, but I saw the line graph of the interest on the national debt

01:20:20.140 is more than we pay for the entire world empire every year. More than we pay for social security

01:20:25.400 or Medicare is just the interest on the debt. So we need to focus and start crucifying bankers

01:20:32.540 and national government employees who have got us into this mess. That was a figure of speech,

01:20:37.480 but we have a real problem here that our ruling elite have got us into. I mean, the Bushes,

01:20:45.620 the Clintons, McCain and Biden, these people have been the absolute most irresponsible stewards of

01:20:51.580 America power that you could have possibly wished upon us by our worst enemies, you know, in the era

01:20:57.400 since the end of the cold war. And they have just run this country into the ground on the pretense that

01:21:02.660 somehow. I just imagine the hubris involved in imagining that the middle part of North America

01:21:09.540 could be the dominant force in all of Eurasia from now on, all Europe, all the Middle East,

01:21:16.540 all East Asia, we will be the dominant power there and no one will ever challenge us or we'll destroy

01:21:22.720 them. Well, that sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? It is. It was, it has been. And, and right now it's,

01:21:30.700 I mean, you can just, I don't know how anyone of any ideological persuasion could look at that same

01:21:35.900 line graph as me and not just see this whole thing as a giant murder suicide plot. You know what I

01:21:41.620 mean? It's like America as an Al Qaeda suicide bomber. Yeah, we'll kill you, but we're taking

01:21:46.300 ourselves out in the process too. And probably not even get our virgins and whatever, like in the

01:21:50.940 promises. Well, Scott, we've got a lot of questions from the audience. So let's try to get to those real

01:21:56.440 quick, but before we do, I know you've got books, websites, all kinds of stuff. Where do you want

01:22:01.480 people to find your work? Sure. Oh, first of all, you asked me like twice and I refuse to answer

01:22:05.400 you, but now I will. It's the American conservative magazine today. The article is called Can Trump's

01:22:10.700 Iran Policy Be Saved? It's by me and my assistant editor at the Institute, John Weeks. That's at the

01:22:16.940 American conservative magazine today. And oh, so I am director of the Libertarian Institute,

01:22:21.540 editorial director of antiwar.com. My interviews, I got more than 6,000 interviews going back to 2003.

01:22:27.020 They're all at scotthorton.org. And I got some books, Poole's Aaron about Afghanistan,

01:22:32.660 enough already about all the terror wars and provoked about how America started the new cold

01:22:38.060 war with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine. And those are all the amazon.com.

01:22:42.380 All right. Excellent. Let's head over to the questions of the people here.

01:22:46.720 Philosophical Thirstworm says, I've been in deals where partners will scrub their social media of random

01:22:51.360 interns to make sure there's nothing anti-Israel. The paranoia, the paranoia of this ethnicity will

01:22:59.340 not result in good things for them. Yeah. Again, you know, these social media is always going to be

01:23:05.160 more of a personal decision, but it's very clear that ultimately, you know, there is a lot of pressure

01:23:10.520 out there for people to have a particular opinion, though, to be fair, I see a lot of people, you know,

01:23:14.660 now voicing, you know, disagreement with Israel more openly and not facing the level of pushback

01:23:21.360 that they used to. But what do you think that about that in general, Scott, as you pointed out,

01:23:25.980 50-50 for Americans at this point supporting Israel or conservative supporting Israel might sound,

01:23:32.020 you know, off to some people, but that is a wild sea change.

01:23:35.640 Oh yeah. It's been just in a few months, it's been crazy. Just the amount of people who are willing

01:23:41.120 to ask questions about this kind of stuff. Do you feel like that momentum is going to continue?

01:23:46.840 Yes. And I think my message to this guy and his friends that he's referring to here is be brave,

01:23:52.300 man. I mean, you wouldn't put up with this in any other way. You should not be afraid to take a moral

01:23:56.540 stand. I mean, I don't know. There are people who do hate Jews, but there's no one who secretly does

01:24:05.460 you know what I mean? Like anybody who actually hates Jews will tell you that and will try to get

01:24:09.040 you to agree with them as bad as they can. Right. So if someone's just being critical of Israel and

01:24:14.840 is being falsely accused of having racial prejudice or whatever, just shine them on, man, blow them off

01:24:21.360 and tell them how stupid they are, whatever it is, figure out a way to, to plow ahead, man,

01:24:26.320 and not let that dissuade you. And again, look, we're not just talking about a normal country in a

01:24:30.780 normal time. It is an absolute moral crisis for our society right now that we are helping them do

01:24:37.420 this. It is not supposed to be this way. And it really is incumbent upon those of us who know about

01:24:43.780 it and who know better to stand up and insist that we stop and do the right thing. Well, and at the

01:24:49.340 very least, you know, as you're saying, you know, we, we, we've been, we were yelled at racist, homophobe,

01:24:55.140 you know, all these things for years, but we finally got to the point where now we can talk about

01:24:59.660 disproportionate crime without having to hate black people. And we can talk about the downsides

01:25:04.240 of mass immigration without having to hate Hispanic people. And we can talk about an

01:25:08.660 unhealthy, uh, alliance with a foreign government without having to hate Jewish people. It should

01:25:14.700 just be another one of those things that we can discuss without having to hate anyone because

01:25:20.120 they're actual real problems that aren't in the interest of our nation to, to avoid. I think that

01:25:25.100 should be pretty simple. And I think that is the momentum that, that is heading down,

01:25:29.160 uh, you know, downhill from all of these conversations.

01:25:31.680 Exactly. And I mean, I just think of how completely absurd it is. If someone would say that,

01:25:36.000 Oh, you just hate Irish people, or you just hate French people, or you just hate Spanish or Italian

01:25:40.800 people. If you criticize things that their governments did, Oh, you just hate the Russians

01:25:45.300 because you're critical of Putin and his men launching a war escalating the hell out of one.

01:25:50.100 Right. I mean, that's completely stupid. You wouldn't put up with that from anyone on any

01:25:54.480 other issue. Oh, you just hate Chinese people. What? No, because we said that the CCP did this

01:26:00.340 or that thing that we disapprove of. No one would even try it when it comes to any other country.

01:26:06.420 To me, it sounds absolutely just as absurd when we're talking about Israel. And of course,

01:26:11.240 look at on the face of it where like Jewish opinion in this country is severely divided,

01:26:17.420 right? We're like, you have a third of American Jews have in, in polls have said that they have

01:26:22.500 no, they feel no special connection to Israel whatsoever. They don't even think about Israel.

01:26:25.680 They don't know anything about Israel. Their families don't come from Israel. Their families

01:26:28.680 come from Europe and they have no special connection to it whatsoever. And then when it comes to like

01:26:34.200 how the Palestinians are treated, they're basically civil rights folk on the, like the sixties model

01:26:38.920 of like equal treatment for everyone kind of thing. So why can't they all just live in one state

01:26:42.900 with equal rights? They all say, or whatever, or at least some of the liberal Zionists will say,

01:26:48.760 look, we don't want these Palestinians. We should give up the occupied territories. Let them have a

01:26:53.420 state so that we can have our liberal Zionist Jewish, Jewish dream without them. Okay. Well, still

01:27:00.300 that puts them absolutely outside of the Netanyahu Likud party consensus and, and they're American Jews.

01:27:08.000 And so, you know, you look at the obvious question, why would so many American Jews side against what

01:27:13.880 the national government of Israel is doing? It's because it's wrong because they feel no special

01:27:19.060 obligation to pretend that it's not. And then you have American Christians who do have a special

01:27:24.220 obligation to pretend that it's not. That's weird. Well, as I said on your podcast, when I was on there,

01:27:30.800 I want to be clear, that is not Christian doctrine. Uh, so please, please take another look at

01:27:36.280 dispensationalism. Uh, but that said, uh, we'll head to our next question here. Uh, Matt Gredir says,

01:27:42.440 honestly, the Trump admin has been really disappointing, uh, regarding Israel and everything

01:27:48.220 related to Israel. Uh, I'm hopeful we can get back to a more JFK style, uh, regionally balanced,

01:27:55.100 uh, approach to Israel after the boomers are gone. Uh, yeah, again, you know, Donald Trump had a lot

01:28:01.660 of momentum heading in, uh, spirits were very high after his election, uh, broad support on the right,

01:28:07.440 uh, very clearly. I think the only people who didn't support Trump were Republicans in Congress,

01:28:11.660 uh, at, uh, initially. Uh, but obviously, uh, his policy stances here have impacted him. Uh,

01:28:18.300 and I think that that has to be something that is clear to the white house. I think they know this

01:28:23.200 ultimately that, you know, they're seeing the poll numbers as, as Scott was pointing out there,

01:28:26.900 uh, you know, they're commenting on them. And so I think ultimately they recognize this and

01:28:31.080 you, at some point you gotta, you just got to come up against the hard place and recognize like,

01:28:36.520 are you really going to scuttle your entire presidency for this? Is it really worth it to

01:28:40.980 you? And if so, why? Like, cause people are going to want to know why my American first presidency,

01:28:46.500 you know, I was here for the deportations. That's why I'm here. I'm here because I want my country back.

01:28:51.400 Okay. So I've seen some positive steps towards that, but you know, three or $4 billion could

01:28:58.760 have gone a long way to deporting a lot of illegals and yet it's going to, to fight a war

01:29:03.840 over in the middle East. Look, I mean, Trump, according to the New York times, Trump does have

01:29:09.020 like $4 billion if not 10. And so you talk about three or $4 billion with his own money after his

01:29:15.580 children and grandchildren and great grandchildren are set for life. And he's in his late seventies,

01:29:21.380 with his own money, he could set up a trust to bankroll the entire Republican party for the

01:29:27.960 next generation. Right? So they don't have to be holding, be beholden to anyone at all. And,

01:29:34.940 and then he says, you know, Sheldon Adelson donates to Marco Rubio. That's that makes Marco

01:29:40.900 Sheldon Adelson's perfect little puppet under his control. Well, Sheldon, Sheldon Adelson and his wife,

01:29:47.020 Miriam, who's actually an Israeli, uh, have given $600 million to Trump for his campaigns.

01:29:52.860 And I have to tell you, man, I rooted for Donald Trump all three times, but I never voted for him.

01:29:57.780 And the reason why was the same all three times his Achilles heel is Zionism. And it's just too

01:30:04.240 obvious. He's just completely pwned for whatever reason by them. I mean, when he moved the embassy

01:30:09.960 from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, which is crucial because that telegraphs at the world superpower sides with the

01:30:16.600 Israelis, when they say that all of Jerusalem will be the eternal undivided capital of Israel,

01:30:21.800 meaning East Jerusalem will never be the capital of an independent Palestinian state. That was huge

01:30:26.840 for him to do that. And at the ceremony, looked at Sheldon Adelson and goes, well, there, there you go.

01:30:32.140 I did that thing for you that you wanted me to do for you there, buddy. Right? Or the money and

01:30:37.140 recognize their seizure of, um, the goal on Heights and did all these Abraham accords, bribe in these

01:30:42.140 countries to normalize relations with Israel, to forsake the Palestinians, as long as the price

01:30:47.360 was right on the American taxpayers dime. And it's just always been the very worst thing about them.

01:30:52.360 And as bad as woke deserve to be crushed. I just couldn't bring myself to support a guy,

01:30:58.620 you know, avowedly and directly support a guy with a vote who I know is going to help to continue the

01:31:04.360 slaughter of the Palestinians, uh, the way that Joe Biden did before him. And by the way,

01:31:08.700 for people who really are Trump loyalists here, Trump broke it, a cease fire before taking power.

01:31:15.140 And it was Benjamin Netanyahu who violated the deal. They were supposed to go to a second round

01:31:20.240 of talks. Netanyahu treated Trump like Trump was just trash. He can do whatever he wants with him.

01:31:24.780 Like it was nothing but Bill Clinton and roll right over him. Scott, I feel like I have taken a few

01:31:30.180 crazy pills, uh, because at one point it made, was this a fever dream? I think I remembered this

01:31:35.580 pretty distinctly. We had a cease fire between Iran and, and Israel. And then, um, Israel decided

01:31:43.860 to like go bomb something. And Donald Trump was just begging Benjamin Netanyahu to stop violating

01:31:50.020 the cease fire live on social media. And he was like, no, and just did it anyway. I, I don't know.

01:31:55.880 Uh, if, if I'm an American and I am America first, and I care about this country and a foreign leader

01:32:02.580 who's entirely dependent on my funding and my tax dollars is ignoring a cease fire. He agreed to

01:32:07.900 with my country. And my president is begging him live on social media to stop dropping bombs after

01:32:15.880 you promised you wouldn't the bombs that are probably paid for with my money. If that's where

01:32:21.160 we're at, that's when you lose me, right? Like maybe you could, maybe you could have had me somewhere

01:32:25.720 else along the line, but I'll be, I'll be honest. That one broke me pretty hard, right? Like whatever,

01:32:30.940 whatever, whatever I had held back after, after watching that, I was like, okay, no, I'm entirely

01:32:36.960 off this train. Like this is not, this is not a, how a sovereign nation behaves. That's how I told

01:32:41.720 you about it. And I have to say, listen, there's, I disrespect William Jefferson Clinton more than

01:32:48.020 anyone you've ever met. He should have burned in the Waco fire himself. Okay. That's how I feel about

01:32:53.920 it. I hate Bill Clinton, but just like you were just saying on behalf of my country, it still

01:32:59.900 bothers me to hear Benjamin Netanyahu talk about how he got over on bill at Y river. Oh yeah. Bill

01:33:06.940 Clinton. Here's what I told him. Yeah, man, we'll stay out of everything except area C our security

01:33:12.180 zone. But then get this. I drew area C to be two thirds of the whole West bank. And I tricked you.

01:33:19.680 And so now how are you going to create a Palestinian state now that I'm pretending that this is all my

01:33:23.580 security zone. And this is on a secretly recorded video. Anybody can watch this. He's in a settler's

01:33:29.040 living room in the year 2000. And he tells the boy, turn off that video camera. And the boy gets up

01:33:34.320 and he either deliberately hits the button twice, or he just like thinks he turned it off, but he

01:33:39.000 didn't. And so the camera's still rolling and Netanyahu is talking about how he got over on bill

01:33:43.960 Clinton and the settler lady says, but BB, aren't you where? Oh, and he's talking about the Palestinians.

01:33:48.840 What you do is you just hit them and you hurt them and you make them suffer. And then they'll shut up

01:33:53.300 and lay down. And she says, but BB, won't you anger the international community? What about the

01:33:59.900 Americans and talking about treating their president this way? And he says, let me tell you something.

01:34:05.300 All right. America is a thing that is easily moved. 80% of them support us. It's absurd.

01:34:13.800 And all I'm saying to you is, yeah, that's right. It's absurd. Yeah. That America supports Benjamin

01:34:20.760 Netanyahu and his criminal regime has absolutely zero respect for the United States. As you said,

01:34:26.240 dependence breeds resentment and the ruling caste in Israel, they respect us. Like we're a bunch of

01:34:32.680 Palestinians. Now, you know what it's like. We got perspicacious heretic here. He says,

01:34:39.380 if you want to work here, you can't criticize Botswana. Nothing fishy. You just can't criticize

01:34:43.780 this random country. Yeah. They pick one on a map. You know, they just kind of spin the globe

01:34:47.360 and wherever your finger comes down, that just happens to be the one you're not allowed to

01:34:50.900 discuss. Philosophical Thirst Woman again says, I joined Congress with the explicit reason of being

01:34:56.740 the foremost supporter of Botswana. Bantu Christian values are the reasons for America's success.

01:35:03.640 Yeah. Again, lots to get into. I went into this a decent amount with Yuram Harzoni when we talked

01:35:13.680 about kind of the Christian Zionism and, you know, even he was saying it's very unhelpful. It sends a

01:35:19.620 bad message. It makes us look bad. I wouldn't let someone talk this way in my country. Again, I feel

01:35:25.460 like Israel kind of not that sad about that relationship actually most of the time, but I think

01:35:31.420 it's more and more important. And this is really breaking out, guys. I mean, nobody was talking

01:35:36.640 about dispensational theology five years ago. Most evangelical Christians didn't even know that's

01:35:41.900 what they believe. And so this conversation is happening. They can't stop it. And so just, you

01:35:47.420 know, I know it's frustrating, but bear down for a few years because trust me that this bill is coming

01:35:54.200 due as well. Like that change is coming. I'm glad that you put it that way. I think that's totally

01:35:58.400 right. It's the same thing like with this defend the guard legislation that we're trying to push

01:36:01.760 through the states where the governors are supposed to forbid there or are supposed to be forbidden

01:36:07.260 from transferring their troops to the president for use in foreign combat without an official

01:36:11.560 declaration of war. And as we've gone through the states year after year, trying to push this

01:36:16.040 thing through all of their moral arguments about remaking the world to create democracy and peace

01:36:22.220 and fight terrorism, all that's fallen away. And all the stuff about America, even exercising

01:36:27.500 great global leadership and all of that, they dropped all that. Now there's nothing left other

01:36:32.220 than, yeah, but if we do this, they're going to close our base and take our helicopters away.

01:36:36.260 We need that money. That's why we can't pass this. That's their last excuse. And it's sort of the

01:36:41.100 same thing in a different way on the right now where what's their last excuse for why we have to

01:36:46.380 support Israel? Some twisted interpretation of the Bible, but no legitimate reason that you can point

01:36:52.720 to in the world whatsoever when they have us backing Al Qaeda to fight Hezbollah, right? There's no

01:36:58.940 real world answer for why this is necessary. And then they start promising you the rapture and stuff

01:37:06.380 is because that's all they have left, but they're obviously bluffing, right? And they have nothing else

01:37:11.160 to promise as to why we need to continue to do this.

01:37:13.900 Like I said, I think that argument is dwindling very quickly. It was already a generational thing

01:37:20.680 and it's on its way out, I think, even faster. No Guard says, the more people outside of Israel

01:37:27.340 hate Jews, the easier it is for Israel to convince Jews to move there. I mean, I guess that's probably

01:37:34.020 true, right? Like ultimately. And so this was always a tension with a lot of people who were Jewish,

01:37:42.120 who weren't sure about the Zionist movement. One of their, one of the things that they were always

01:37:46.400 talking about as to a reason to perhaps oppose this was that states do bad things. Like that's

01:37:52.920 what states do. And so if you have a Jewish state and explicitly Jewish state, and it's the only Jewish

01:37:59.720 state, and then it does the thing that states do, people will look at it and say, oh, that's what the

01:38:04.560 Jews do, right? And so the worry by many people, because of course, Judaism, they're large diasporas in

01:38:10.600 many different parts of the world. The concern by diaspora Jews was ultimately that if the state

01:38:15.840 of Israel did what states did and it got attributed to Jews, ultimately they would be unable to live

01:38:21.060 in their foreign nations anymore and they would have to go to Israel. And I don't know if that's

01:38:26.740 like a, I doubt ultimately that that's like a larger scheme to drive all the Jews to Israel by

01:38:33.080 the Israeli government. Like I doubt that that's ultimate.

01:38:35.640 No, it has been historically. Yeah. I mean, the Zionists did false flag bombings in Iraq to force

01:38:41.800 all the Iraqi Jews to flee. Um, cause they didn't want to move to Israel back then. Um, and this has

01:38:47.180 been an avowed policy at different times. Israelis have talked about this and Netanyahu, especially

01:38:51.660 is the most cynical of them all. There was a, an attack at a kosher grocery store in France a few

01:38:56.800 years back. I think second Obama term and Netanyahu went to France and said, that's right. French Jews.

01:39:03.460 You're not French. You're Jews come home to Israel with me. You'll never fit in here. They hate you.

01:39:09.280 And this and that. And the French Jews were like, Hey, you shut up, man. We are too French and we are

01:39:13.880 not Israeli. We don't have anything to do with you. And how dare you come to France and tell the people

01:39:19.080 of France that we are not actually of them. Our families have lived here for hundreds of years for

01:39:23.640 God's sake. Of course, we're French beat it. And he, but to him, this is like, that's right.

01:39:28.560 Make Aaliyah. Everyone hates you come to Israel. And this is, you know, that's what they thrive off

01:39:33.680 of is how do you get people to make Aaliyah if they're better off in Brooklyn? You know,

01:39:38.340 if you can get people to call them names, they'll at least think twice, you know,

01:39:43.920 uh, death here says the horrible thing is that many Jewish students who protested Israel and,

01:39:50.760 uh, this are now suspended Fox news does not reflect reality. Uh, yeah, I mean, as, as Scott

01:39:57.000 pointed out, uh, a good percentage of American Jews are themselves liberal and therefore were

01:40:03.040 involved in these anti-Israel protests. And so, um, you know, there, there is a high percentage of

01:40:08.640 Jewish participation in all political activity, including anti-Israel, uh, lobbying. So, uh, that,

01:40:15.100 that obviously is going to fall on them as well. Uh, Senator Brundelfly says, James Lindsay will

01:40:21.120 call you a woke for criticizing Israel. Groepers will call you Hasbara shill for not doing it in

01:40:26.460 the dumbest, most international, uh, uh, uh, way possible. Yeah. I mean, uh, so, so, uh, like I said,

01:40:33.600 Friday, I had Yoram Hazoni on and everybody's like, ah, Jewish subversion. He's, he's, he's going to be

01:40:39.260 selling that to, uh, you know, to everyone. And I'm sure after I have you on today, it's going to be

01:40:43.720 Orin's anti-Israel and he hates all the Jews. And I, I, I'm just trying to set up a conversation

01:40:49.980 where I feel like some people who might be, you know, have some overlap on the issue could have

01:40:56.520 a discussion on what we can do here. But apparently, you know, and I'm, I'm certainly not one of those

01:41:01.380 people who's like, ah, well, both sides hate me. Therefore I'm the rational centrist. Like, no, I've

01:41:06.100 got a team for sure. Uh, but ultimately it is funny to like constantly hear, uh, that every, every four to

01:41:12.340 five say, like literally yesterday on Twitter, I was simultaneously being attacked because I said

01:41:16.660 usury is bad and more people should, you know, actually fight against that as Christians.

01:41:21.180 And like one of the guys at the Babylon B was like, oh, uh, that must mean you hate Jews. I was like,

01:41:26.000 I'm sorry, what? Like, what are you saying here? And then at the same time, I had a bunch of people,

01:41:30.660 uh, attacking me because I didn't hate Israel sufficiently enough. So just, just the constant

01:41:35.760 reality of trying to discuss this issue as an adult in any way, shape or form.

01:41:39.300 Man. I have to say, I really appreciate the guys at the Babylon B. They are doing such a good job

01:41:44.100 of representing the last dead ends of broke ass right-wing Zionism. There's just nothing there,

01:41:51.620 dude. These humorless scolds talk about woke. You know what I mean? They're just completely ridiculous.

01:41:57.620 Once you're the, once you're the Christian, uh, comedy site that is like, yeah, you know,

01:42:02.460 Catholics stop being Christians. The minute Israel shoots them with a tank round, it's like, well,

01:42:06.460 I don't know guys. I think, I think you might've pulled the mask off a little hard on that one,

01:42:10.320 but okay. Uh, let's see here. Uh, thirst room again says Botswana use, uh, used to be a lot

01:42:16.080 better at subversion. BB is making a lot of amateur mistakes, uh, just so bad at PR because he doesn't

01:42:21.920 need to practice again. It does, it does feel like we're getting a little sloppy at this point,

01:42:26.480 right? Like I, I at least demand a higher quality of PSYOP, you know, like I, like if you're going to

01:42:31.500 sell these things to me, like, you know, give it the old college try, man, like maybe, you know,

01:42:35.400 buy me some, some, some flowers, some dinner or something first. Like, you know, that's all I'm

01:42:40.120 asking. I'm just insulted at the level of effort that is just not going into this one.

01:42:44.740 You know, I've always been surprised about Israel's seeming high time preference, right? You know,

01:42:50.800 that whole, the slogan that it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission and where they just,

01:42:56.200 their attitude is to always get away with bloody murder in the short term. We're going to take this

01:43:03.520 gain without seemingly, you know, any real reflection on what this is going to mean for

01:43:09.800 the longterm. I mean, even look again, it just seizing the, the territories of the West Bank and

01:43:15.140 Gaza. Yeah. But what are we going to do with all these people? Well, we'll figure that out later.

01:43:19.040 We want this land. And then they never figured out what to do with the people. You know what I mean?

01:43:23.040 And it's the same way that they deal with us. I mean, I'm probably sitting here right now because

01:43:27.540 of the chip on my shoulder about the role that they played in lying us into Iraq war two, 20 years

01:43:32.020 ago. I'm not over it. You know, I really resent that. And especially on behalf of all the Americans

01:43:39.280 who still don't even understand the role that Israel played in that. And everybody else to resent them

01:43:46.140 extra over that. And I'm never going to get over it. I saw Candace Owen say she would rather saw off her

01:43:51.520 foot than ever support Israel again after this. So they have lost a really good ally permanently

01:43:58.980 over getting away with blue bloody murder. Now, you know, absolutely. Uh, based hillbilly says, uh,

01:44:06.860 defunding universities and deporting students in a way that increase, uh, increases noticing seems

01:44:11.960 like a win to me. Uh, again, it really is one of those scenarios where, uh, for many years I was told

01:44:18.360 we can't do anything about this. You know, there's, there's just no action to be taken. Uh, the, the,

01:44:22.900 the universities are just leftists and they're going to keep selling this, you know, anti-Christian,

01:44:27.680 anti-white, uh, you know, garbage, all this stuff. And there's just nothing that we can do. Um, you know,

01:44:32.080 so yeah, I mean, the fact that all of a sudden we, it turns out there's plenty we can do and everyone

01:44:35.420 can snap too. Um, again, you know, if, if you pay any attention at all, even the smallest amount,

01:44:41.220 it's hard not to notice when that political will suddenly, uh, you know, summoned itself at an

01:44:46.040 incredible force in Washington DC and along what axis it did. So, uh, Matt Gredir says the Middle

01:44:53.060 East really makes so much more sense, uh, when you realize that we're mostly just fighting wars on

01:44:58.460 behalf of Israel. Well, and I, I guess the, the point is like, ultimately they want to transition to

01:45:04.560 being the hegemon in that area, right? Like that's the hope is with the Abraham Accords, they can more

01:45:08.540 or less, you know, have, have that, but it's, it's, I mean, would they ever be able to do that

01:45:13.100 actually free of the United States at this point? Or is that always going to be kind of the background

01:45:17.740 implication? No, they have the equipment, but they don't have the manpower. You know what I mean?

01:45:22.620 They can lord their nukes over everybody's head, but you can't really just threaten first strikes all

01:45:26.600 the time. People get, you know, immune to that if you don't really mean it. So, you know, there's a

01:45:31.900 thing you'd really find this fascinating or in, um, in your audience too, it's called the Oded Yanon

01:45:36.840 plan, O-D-E-D-Y-N-O-N. And he was an advisor to Ariel Sharon back in the early 1980s. And he wrote

01:45:44.760 this plan that says what Israel needs to do because the Soviets are about to conquer the entire world

01:45:51.880 and enslave us all under one world communism. Of course, um, Israel has no choice, but to smash

01:45:57.720 every Arab state into the smallest tribes, the most number of the smallest sized tribes possible

01:46:04.460 and keep them all at war against each other, destroy anything like a real nation state in

01:46:09.420 the Middle East and just keep them all fighting amongst each other. So then Israel can be the

01:46:14.000 regional hedgeman compared to them. If they can't build their power up beyond whatever their GDP will

01:46:20.240 actually allow, at least they can bring everyone down and try to smash all the Arab state, uh, all the

01:46:25.920 nearby Arab states into small pieces that'd be easier to dominate and achieve their hegemony that way.

01:46:31.060 And I think there's a lot of the Yanon plan underlying Likud thinking now. I mean, we talked

01:46:36.920 about, uh, regime change potential attempted regime change in Iran. It's more likely to look like what

01:46:42.780 happened in Syria, right? Where you just have a thousand warring factions fighting and no monarch and

01:46:48.700 no, no Ayatollah either. Well, and this is actually something I think that is actually pretty natural to

01:46:55.760 Islam, uh, to Arab, uh, you know, peoples. They, they tend to be tribal. The nation state is much

01:47:01.000 more of a Western European understanding of governance. You know, Samuel Huntington made this

01:47:05.440 point that this is why, uh, it's been so hard for, you know, most of these, uh, governments to

01:47:11.200 actually cohere and have any kind of relevance because that, that's just, uh, you know, not the way

01:47:16.000 that, uh, Arab Muslims function. Uh, that, that's not their natural, uh, way to coalesce around a

01:47:21.640 society. It kind of goes from tribalism to, to, you know, empires or monarchy and not a lot in

01:47:26.860 between, uh, there. So, uh, it's a plan that, that both benefits Israel and just does recognize

01:47:33.200 for better or worse, a geopolitical reality. I think of the way that people organize in that,

01:47:37.380 uh, area in the first place. Senator Benderfly says, love Scott's interviews on the OKC bombing

01:47:43.460 with, uh, Trenton do. Is that how you say it? Trenton do. Uh, Trenton do. And Kathy Sanders,

01:47:49.440 uh, is Margo, is Margaret Roberts, uh, book good? Well, I'm afraid I haven't read it yet. I am so

01:47:56.980 far behind on some really big projects right now. I have it right here. Um, it's called blowback here.

01:48:02.020 I'll show your audience. Um, I'm willing to support this author because I know that, um, she's on a good

01:48:07.840 team. She's friends with Jesse Trinidoo and, um, or at least in the past was, and, um, she, uh, I know

01:48:14.840 her fact checker is the world's greatest Oklahoma city bombing researcher, a guy named Richard Booth.

01:48:21.220 And he's the one who made sure that her book was right and not wrong. There are a lot of red

01:48:24.700 herrings and kooky theories about Oklahoma city that he does not believe in any of them. So I am

01:48:30.660 also very reliant on him. I know he's a razor sharp guy on that stuff. Was she the lady who did the

01:48:35.680 Tucker interview recently on this subject? Okay. Yes. So I can almost entirely vouch for the book. I

01:48:40.860 I guess I will go ahead and say this part of the story is there's a guy named Paul David Hammer

01:48:45.580 who was on death row with McVeigh and who wrote two books about it. And I think is a total liar,

01:48:53.380 completely full of it. And she does not. And seems to think that some of his information is valuable

01:48:58.620 and repeated it in there. I would have thrown it out. I read both his books in a row.

01:49:03.860 Well, they don't say the same thing at all. He got you right there. And I actually interviewed him

01:49:07.720 live from death row one time. People can hear that in my archives. His name is,

01:49:10.860 uh, hammer and the guy was just full of it. So I don't like that part. But, uh, as far as I

01:49:16.440 understand, she did not follow any other of the red herring rabbit trails that break off from that

01:49:21.540 story of which there are quite a few. Gotcha. And then Machiavelli sucks says racial prejudice

01:49:26.900 doesn't mean that you're wrong. All right, guys, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up.

01:49:31.880 Want to thank Scott once again for coming on. It's been a fantastic conversation. If it's your first

01:49:36.520 time on this channel, guys, you need to click subscribe on YouTube, the bell and notifications.

01:49:40.400 So, you know, when the streams go live, if you want to get these broadcasts as podcasts,

01:49:44.200 you need to subscribe to the or Mac entire show on your favorite podcast platform. And when you do,

01:49:48.880 please leave a rating or review. It really helps with the algorithm magic.

01:49:52.200 Thank you everybody for watching. And as always, I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - August 11, 2025

Are Americans Being Censored on Behalf of Israel？｜ Guest： Scott Horton ｜ 8⧸11⧸25

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