The Auron MacIntyre Show - Are Conservative Denominations Enforcing Leftist Cancel Culture？｜ Guest： Ryan Turnipseed

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00:00:30.740 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:32.860 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:34.700 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:39.460 So many of you will know Ryan Turnipseed from my streams as kind of like the Microsoft Clippy,

00:00:46.340 but for arcane historical knowledge, if you want to understand more about the context

00:00:52.380 of why you have a particular policy in American history or why we ended up with this bureaucracy,

00:00:57.700 you just kind of click on Ryan and he pops up and he explains what's going on.

00:01:02.700 He stores his vast historical knowledge in his glorious mane of hair, which is why he must retain it.

00:01:08.340 And so, you know, he's often been on to explain different periods of American history and why we end up in certain situations that we have.

00:01:17.340 However, today I'm having Ryan on for a different reason.

00:01:20.680 Those who have followed him on Twitter may be aware of the fact that unfortunately he has faced some very serious difficulties with his church.

00:01:29.800 He has led to now excommunication.

00:01:32.560 And I know Ryan personally, he is a guy who's young but has a great character and I think truly loves the Lord.

00:01:41.080 And I think what's been done to him is quite evil.

00:01:44.080 And so I want to have him on to explain in his own words what has happened here,

00:01:47.880 because I think it's important that people understand what is going on in the background of many of their churches.

00:01:53.560 While the churches might come out and talk a good game about being very conservative and orthodox and having this kind of front,

00:02:03.160 often there are people working inside the church to change that and trying to go ahead and cancel or push out anybody who might question the actions that they're taking.

00:02:13.640 So, Ryan, thank you for coming on, man.

00:02:15.700 I really appreciate you joining me to tell your story.

00:02:18.060 Thank you very much for having me.

00:02:19.760 It means a great deal to me.

00:02:21.020 So, the first thing I want to do, because like I said, I've met you in person, we've talked, I'm familiar with your character,

00:02:29.520 and I think that first and foremost it's important to people to understand kind of the ground of your faith,

00:02:35.880 because a lot of people will look at this and they'll say, well, this guy's a rabble rouser, he's just trying to create trouble,

00:02:41.780 he's just an edgy guy who's trying to go ahead and sow discord in the church, and I know this is not who you are at all.

00:02:50.220 So, I wonder if you could start maybe from the beginning explaining, you know, how you came to faith in Christ,

00:02:57.000 your experience with the Lutheran Church.

00:02:59.680 Maybe go ahead and tell people a little bit about the LCMS so that they have an idea of kind of the history of this denomination,

00:03:10.320 why it has a reputation it does.

00:03:11.760 Yeah, yeah.

00:03:13.160 So, I was raised for the majority of my life as a Southern Baptist.

00:03:17.800 Growing up in Oklahoma, if you're a Protestant, that's likely what you're going to be just by default,

00:03:22.840 and that's how I was raised.

00:03:24.960 My family or my great-grandparents took me to church pretty regularly as a child,

00:03:30.440 but despite that, the only major Protestant private school in this town that I grew up in,

00:03:40.540 Ponca City in Oklahoma, was a Lutheran private school.

00:03:44.560 The LCMS, if I remember correctly, has the largest network of Protestant private schools in the country,

00:03:50.760 so it's the Protestant equivalent of sort of like the Roman Catholic schooling system,

00:03:55.960 and that's where I went to school from pre-kindergarten, whatever age that would be, three or four,

00:04:01.460 I don't quite remember, up until the end of the eighth grade going into high school.

00:04:05.760 That's when the school system stopped.

00:04:07.260 So, the entire time that I was in that school system, I was a Southern Baptist.

00:04:10.780 That's why I attended church, and that was the theology that I grew up with,

00:04:15.420 but the church that I and my family had gone to since I was really little,

00:04:20.140 one of the oldest Baptist churches in the county, basically just sort of fizzled out and closed down.

00:04:26.140 And at that point in time, I and the rest of my family were wondering,

00:04:30.160 well, what do we do about church?

00:04:32.760 You know, what are we going to do?

00:04:35.200 And so we started looking at everything that was around us and really breeding into them

00:04:39.780 instead of just going to church because it was the social convention.

00:04:42.380 We actually started examining what do we believe.

00:04:45.420 What lines up with scripture?

00:04:47.820 And that led us to this Lutheran church, the part of the Lutheran church, Missouri Synod,

00:04:52.700 that you mentioned earlier, the LCMS,

00:04:55.500 because they're supposed to be the beating heart of conservative Lutheranism,

00:05:01.440 one of the big mainstays of conservative Protestantism.

00:05:05.740 And that's where we started attending.

00:05:07.980 The rationale was that they weren't too weird.

00:05:10.440 We would go check them out, see if they held up to what we were hoping for.

00:05:15.420 And that's what we found.

00:05:17.680 We found something very good.

00:05:19.520 The preaching was solid.

00:05:20.700 The service was normal.

00:05:22.260 You didn't have some of the stranger excesses that you could find in very contemporary Baptist churches

00:05:28.460 that drove us away from the rest of the Baptist in town, certainly.

00:05:32.600 And that's sort of where we ended up.

00:05:34.700 We read into the Lutheran confessions.

00:05:36.620 The small catechism was required to uphold that to join a Lutheran congregation.

00:05:42.340 So that's the same small catechism that was written by Martin Luther almost five centuries ago.

00:05:48.560 So there was a very strong doctrinal strength, at very least on paper.

00:05:56.540 And so this was appealing.

00:05:57.860 And then after my family and I joined this church, I started looking at other confessions

00:06:02.120 because this was completely foreign to me, having grown up in a very sort of non-creedal

00:06:06.680 or non-confessional religious community.

00:06:10.360 So I started looking at the other ones, and I became more firm in Lutheranism.

00:06:14.980 I found that the Lutheran confessions, at the very least to me and to my family,

00:06:21.160 really held up to Scripture better than, say, the Calvinist confessions

00:06:25.360 or the 39 Articles of the Anglican Church or something like that.

00:06:30.680 So that was a—we were converts.

00:06:33.940 This would have been—I was a sophomore in high school, I think maybe the age of 15,

00:06:37.960 15, somewhere around there, was when we started proclaiming ourselves Lutheran.

00:06:43.440 And this was—this was—this was good.

00:06:45.320 This wasn't like—we weren't looking for the political church or something like that.

00:06:48.380 We were looking for a Christian church that wasn't crazy and was also Protestant.

00:06:52.760 So this is where we were drawn to, was this church that, as we found out,

00:06:57.500 had a very good reputation for being the conservative Lutheran church,

00:07:01.940 if not in North America, then the whole world,

00:07:04.320 certainly responsible for a great deal of mission efforts across the globe

00:07:08.720 for this conservative Lutheran strand.

00:07:13.240 So we were happy with this, and that's sort of how I was—how I and the rest of my family was drawn there.

00:07:19.800 So it was certainly out of devotion and checking against Scripture

00:07:24.720 that we were drawn to this organization.

00:07:27.000 It had a—at the time, it was certainly a deserved reputation for being conservative.

00:07:34.340 They would speak very harshly against things like abortion,

00:07:38.160 both extra—I would say extracurricularly, whatever that would be for a church,

00:07:43.860 sort of outside the pulpit and inside.

00:07:46.500 They had a very strong adherence to old doctrine.

00:07:50.860 Certainly that's the—if you go to a good Lutheran church,

00:07:53.720 that's what you're going to get during confirmation is this—

00:07:56.620 they will be dredging up old doctrine

00:07:58.620 that certainly most modern people would discard out of hand because it's old.

00:08:02.720 That's exactly what we were looking for.

00:08:05.140 So this was a—this was a godsend,

00:08:08.640 this conservative Christianity

00:08:11.160 that was a little bit more structured.

00:08:13.880 So that's—that's the draw on our side.

00:08:16.880 And I think that's really important for people to understand

00:08:19.060 because, like you said, the Christianity was, I think,

00:08:23.360 due, of course, in large part to just the continuity of your family.

00:08:28.340 It was part of your family's faith.

00:08:30.280 It's something that you had early on.

00:08:32.800 But the choice to move into this particular denomination

00:08:36.920 was one based, like you said,

00:08:39.700 on what you felt was doctoral accuracies.

00:08:42.160 It's something that you felt was found theology.

00:08:44.360 This is what you admired about it.

00:08:45.980 This is also what I had heard about this church.

00:08:47.900 It's like, look, if you're going to do Lutheranism,

00:08:50.280 these are the guys who are holding fast.

00:08:52.700 These are the guys who are the bulwark against

00:08:54.560 kind of progressive indoctrination.

00:08:57.460 And so it makes perfect sense

00:08:59.580 that if you were going to make that move,

00:09:01.880 that this is what you're looking for

00:09:03.760 and this is why you selected it.

00:09:06.540 And I think that's really what leads us to our next point,

00:09:10.640 which is what kind of started this ball rolling

00:09:13.900 rolling because there was a shift suggested,

00:09:19.200 I believe, and I'll let you explain in more detail,

00:09:21.960 but there was a shift suggested in the doctrine of the church,

00:09:26.340 the declarations of the church.

00:09:29.280 And much of it was concerning in its willingness

00:09:33.560 to draw equivocations,

00:09:35.520 to go ahead and liberalize certain aspects

00:09:40.520 or not going completely woke,

00:09:43.480 but very clearly making a substantial shift

00:09:46.820 in the direction of affirming many modern conceptions

00:09:51.940 of what Christian doctrine should be

00:09:54.100 or how Christian morality should frame certain issues.

00:09:58.100 And when you went ahead and shared this widely

00:10:02.760 in a way that hadn't been done before,

00:10:05.940 most people didn't recognize it,

00:10:07.780 it feels like that is when you started to have problems

00:10:11.160 then with, you know,

00:10:12.800 you were targeted by church leadership

00:10:14.840 for what you had shared.

00:10:17.140 Right.

00:10:17.780 So in the lead up to this in 2022,

00:10:21.560 there was the LCMS has what's called

00:10:23.200 a national youth gathering

00:10:24.300 where the congregations are at least encouraged

00:10:27.520 to send their,

00:10:29.120 I think it's like middle school to high school children,

00:10:33.280 maybe just high school,

00:10:34.060 I can't quite remember the age range,

00:10:35.380 sort of in that range

00:10:37.040 to some sort of a youth gathering,

00:10:40.120 which is a very, very modern thing,

00:10:42.080 but nothing inherently wrong with it on the face of it.

00:10:46.040 And this 2022 gathering,

00:10:47.980 there was breakout sessions for these children,

00:10:51.000 these young people

00:10:53.120 that were led by organizations

00:10:55.400 like Lutherans for Racial Justice

00:10:57.140 and all this other stuff.

00:10:58.220 So I pointed this out in 2022,

00:11:00.600 as did many others.

00:11:01.540 So we already knew that,

00:11:02.920 you know, maybe there's,

00:11:04.200 you know, everything's not perfect

00:11:05.560 and there is certainly some sort of battle

00:11:07.460 happening under the surface,

00:11:08.580 very non-publicly.

00:11:09.940 The fact that this Lutherans for Racial Justice group,

00:11:12.940 which does exactly what you'd think it does

00:11:15.080 based on the name,

00:11:16.120 just looking at any other institution

00:11:18.000 around us in the world,

00:11:19.820 the fact that they'd be teaching children

00:11:21.600 was quite a shock to many people,

00:11:23.940 and certainly in the capacity that they were.

00:11:26.580 And then at the start of 2023,

00:11:29.080 so a few months later,

00:11:30.620 the publishing house

00:11:31.780 for the Lutheran Church,

00:11:32.640 Missouri Synod,

00:11:33.380 the Concordia Publishing House,

00:11:35.220 with the full support of the,

00:11:36.900 of every major hierarch in the Synod

00:11:39.840 and the bureaucracy,

00:11:41.260 theological review boards,

00:11:42.540 and whatever else,

00:11:43.800 put out an edition

00:11:45.440 of Luther's large catechism

00:11:47.140 that had the catechism

00:11:48.600 completely unchanged,

00:11:49.520 but also bound to dozens and dozens of essays

00:11:51.880 that were, quite frankly, subversive.

00:11:56.460 So you had one essay

00:11:58.800 on the Lutheran Sixth Commandment,

00:12:01.400 which is the one on adultery,

00:12:03.320 thou shalt not commit adultery,

00:12:05.300 and talking about the nature of sexual sins,

00:12:08.300 equalizing sexual sins

00:12:10.520 all the way from fornication

00:12:13.040 to pedophilia,

00:12:14.720 to pornography,

00:12:17.020 homosexuality,

00:12:17.900 transgenderism,

00:12:18.780 and everything in between,

00:12:19.960 saying that they're all equally as bad,

00:12:21.820 and on top of that,

00:12:23.700 then saying that

00:12:25.340 if you struggle

00:12:26.560 with some sort of sexual sin,

00:12:28.020 even if it's just fornication,

00:12:30.000 that is worse than

00:12:31.500 another person

00:12:33.100 outside of you

00:12:34.160 being a pedophile,

00:12:36.320 something like that,

00:12:37.100 because,

00:12:37.840 and they heavily abused

00:12:39.340 the gospel selection,

00:12:42.640 you should deal with

00:12:44.180 the speck in your own eye,

00:12:45.800 or the log in your own eye,

00:12:46.780 rather than the speck in your neighbors.

00:12:48.880 So that was in the essay

00:12:50.900 on the Sixth Commandment.

00:12:52.560 There was an essay

00:12:53.840 that was not tied

00:12:55.080 to any of the commandments

00:12:55.920 that was specifically on,

00:12:57.520 and this is in the title,

00:12:58.860 incorporating social justice

00:13:00.280 into Lutheran theology,

00:13:01.660 and all this other stuff.

00:13:02.780 So this is just a sampling,

00:13:04.340 but quite a few other ones

00:13:05.980 were just as bad

00:13:06.900 and worse in other capacities.

00:13:08.960 And this is especially

00:13:10.940 egregious,

00:13:13.160 because a catechism

00:13:14.520 is meant to teach faith

00:13:15.760 to people.

00:13:16.980 That's the point.

00:13:17.900 It's the very basics

00:13:19.660 of Christianity.

00:13:20.300 If you need to know

00:13:21.180 what to believe

00:13:21.920 to get into Christianity,

00:13:24.400 if you are educating children,

00:13:26.280 if you're educating adults,

00:13:27.280 that's what this large catechism

00:13:28.460 is for,

00:13:29.220 educating pastors even,

00:13:30.960 you go to a catechism.

00:13:33.820 And so to have

00:13:35.140 even things that are ambiguous,

00:13:36.340 let alone wrong

00:13:37.500 in this volume

00:13:38.900 is quite frankly unacceptable.

00:13:41.160 So I and many other people

00:13:42.220 raised the alarm bells.

00:13:43.700 It was thanks to you

00:13:44.880 and many other gentlemen

00:13:46.660 with large accounts

00:13:47.540 that got this thing rolling

00:13:49.080 in the public eye.

00:13:50.840 And the president of the LCMS

00:13:52.560 eventually pulled it

00:13:53.340 because he agreed.

00:13:54.080 There were some very egregious

00:13:55.560 mistakes in this catechism.

00:13:57.220 And this would have been

00:13:58.020 towards the end of January

00:13:59.480 last year.

00:14:01.400 And then a few weeks later,

00:14:02.760 after succumbing

00:14:03.620 to internal pressure,

00:14:04.760 he re-released it,

00:14:05.700 reaffirmed it,

00:14:06.240 said it was a great volume

00:14:07.220 and also said things

00:14:08.420 could have been worded

00:14:09.080 a little better.

00:14:09.840 So, you know,

00:14:10.560 we're already throwing out

00:14:11.760 standards for things

00:14:12.620 like catechisms.

00:14:14.180 Yeah, and this is really

00:14:15.060 concerning because,

00:14:16.200 of course,

00:14:16.580 this is something we see

00:14:17.980 over and over again.

00:14:18.960 We all know that,

00:14:20.000 unfortunately,

00:14:20.520 many mainline

00:14:21.920 Protestant denominations

00:14:24.000 and sadly, you know,

00:14:25.640 inside certain aspects

00:14:27.460 of the Catholic Church,

00:14:28.780 we see this constant

00:14:30.080 push to liberalize,

00:14:32.560 to modernize,

00:14:34.100 to weaken the doctrine,

00:14:35.220 to change the truth

00:14:37.720 of God's word

00:14:38.800 with the times.

00:14:40.460 And even in many

00:14:42.240 of the denominations

00:14:43.740 that have a reputation

00:14:45.220 for being conservative,

00:14:46.960 for standing firm

00:14:48.180 on these doctrines,

00:14:49.820 there's always this

00:14:51.120 constant subversive element.

00:14:52.840 Of course,

00:14:53.120 the Southern Baptist

00:14:53.800 Convention is dealing

00:14:54.920 with this.

00:14:56.380 You know,

00:14:56.580 obviously,

00:14:57.880 the LCMS

00:14:58.760 is dealing with this.

00:15:00.380 Denominations that are

00:15:01.240 known for standing firm

00:15:03.940 when other denominations

00:15:05.320 are folding,

00:15:07.140 the people don't want it.

00:15:09.400 It seems like the congregations

00:15:10.840 are not interested in this.

00:15:12.200 Like you said,

00:15:13.020 you chose your denomination

00:15:14.740 specifically due

00:15:16.020 to its conservative dictates.

00:15:19.100 And yet,

00:15:19.520 the leadership

00:15:20.160 is really,

00:15:21.940 really vulnerable.

00:15:24.680 And in many cases,

00:15:26.020 often leading

00:15:27.380 this revolution

00:15:28.760 from inside.

00:15:29.820 And it always happens

00:15:31.520 the same way,

00:15:32.460 right?

00:15:32.740 As you're talking about here,

00:15:34.060 it's not a direct,

00:15:35.560 they don't walk right up to

00:15:37.300 and deny the word,

00:15:39.220 right?

00:15:39.800 But what they do

00:15:40.660 is they play this game

00:15:42.480 of,

00:15:42.840 well,

00:15:42.920 maybe these things

00:15:43.840 are equal.

00:15:44.840 Well,

00:15:45.020 maybe these are all just,

00:15:46.380 you know,

00:15:46.520 it's just one of many problems,

00:15:48.800 right?

00:15:49.020 Like,

00:15:49.300 well,

00:15:49.500 maybe at the end of the day,

00:15:50.800 we should embrace

00:15:51.760 certain aspects

00:15:52.620 of these different movements.

00:15:54.380 There are parts of this

00:15:55.820 that are okay,

00:15:56.960 ignoring all the subversive parts,

00:15:58.620 ignoring how,

00:15:59.740 you know,

00:16:00.420 90% of social justice

00:16:02.240 is really just a veil

00:16:03.460 for progressive atheism,

00:16:05.780 while 10% of it

00:16:07.160 might reference something

00:16:08.060 that God actually wants us

00:16:09.440 to do to care for our neighbor

00:16:10.760 or seek justice

00:16:12.300 in our communities.

00:16:13.880 They play this game

00:16:15.800 on purpose

00:16:16.440 because they know

00:16:17.080 if they can subvert

00:16:18.260 part of this,

00:16:19.480 if they can get

00:16:19.940 the language changed,

00:16:21.160 if they can go ahead

00:16:21.820 and start introducing

00:16:22.980 parts of the concepts

00:16:24.100 and making them

00:16:24.940 something that people

00:16:25.940 are comfortable with,

00:16:26.740 eventually they can use

00:16:27.980 that to go ahead

00:16:28.560 and then eventually

00:16:29.760 erode the actual doctrine

00:16:31.200 itself.

00:16:32.420 And so I think you're right

00:16:33.400 to go ahead

00:16:33.800 and raise alarms about this.

00:16:35.260 I think that,

00:16:36.160 unfortunately,

00:16:36.440 this is a process

00:16:37.220 that we see over

00:16:38.220 and over again

00:16:39.140 in many denominations.

00:16:41.920 And the fact that

00:16:43.460 the leadership

00:16:45.100 saw this problem,

00:16:46.580 but then backtracked

00:16:48.400 and affirmed

00:16:49.280 the problem

00:16:50.320 once they,

00:16:50.980 you know,

00:16:51.420 once they had been risen,

00:16:53.720 really shows you

00:16:54.820 that ultimately

00:16:55.820 they're not accountable

00:16:56.980 to the congregation

00:16:58.120 and they're not

00:16:58.780 accountable to God's word.

00:17:00.740 They seem to be

00:17:01.600 mostly accountable

00:17:02.920 to these liberalizing

00:17:04.660 forces in leadership,

00:17:06.380 which should concern

00:17:08.020 everyone involved

00:17:09.900 with these denominations.

00:17:11.500 So after this came out

00:17:13.980 and after you had shared

00:17:16.000 what was going on

00:17:17.780 there and there had been

00:17:19.100 this response,

00:17:20.360 that's again,

00:17:21.740 like we said,

00:17:22.300 when you started to see,

00:17:24.040 I think,

00:17:24.420 a shift

00:17:24.820 in the way

00:17:25.120 that the church

00:17:25.680 was approaching you,

00:17:26.500 leadership was approaching you.

00:17:27.940 So can you explain

00:17:28.860 what happened

00:17:29.680 after that thread came out,

00:17:31.700 after you had shared

00:17:32.740 these changes

00:17:33.380 in the catechism?

00:17:34.840 What were the,

00:17:35.800 what was the posture

00:17:36.660 of many of these leaders?

00:17:38.160 How did they start approaching you?

00:17:39.960 Yeah, so,

00:17:40.560 and this is,

00:17:41.120 this might be worth noting

00:17:42.700 here at the outset.

00:17:45.180 This,

00:17:45.740 this leadership

00:17:46.360 in the LTMS,

00:17:47.120 it's not like

00:17:47.580 there was some liberal coup

00:17:49.140 and the liberal faction

00:17:50.200 got in charge

00:17:50.860 and that's why

00:17:51.360 this crackdown

00:17:51.960 is the way it was.

00:17:52.600 This is the conservative leadership.

00:17:53.900 This is the mainstream

00:17:55.060 conservative faction

00:17:56.580 of this conservative church.

00:17:58.320 They pride themselves

00:17:59.360 on how conservative

00:18:00.200 they are

00:18:00.640 because they go

00:18:00.980 to pro-life marches,

00:18:01.980 they vote Republican

00:18:02.800 and whatever else

00:18:03.600 is that that means something

00:18:05.100 as to the rest

00:18:05.680 of their actions.

00:18:06.880 This is the conservative

00:18:08.020 hierarchy

00:18:09.460 within this,

00:18:10.240 within this organization.

00:18:12.200 So that,

00:18:13.320 let that inform

00:18:13.980 everything that's been said

00:18:15.060 so far

00:18:15.480 and that's about to be said.

00:18:16.560 So after this publication

00:18:19.760 was re-released

00:18:20.780 and reaffirmed,

00:18:22.540 the president

00:18:23.660 of the LCMS,

00:18:24.680 Matthew Harrison,

00:18:25.920 he put out

00:18:27.000 a letter

00:18:28.680 in February,

00:18:30.040 I think it was

00:18:30.860 February 21st,

00:18:32.480 either on

00:18:33.320 or around

00:18:34.060 Ash Wednesday

00:18:34.660 of that year

00:18:35.160 if you want to get

00:18:35.720 symbolic about things,

00:18:37.320 where he was,

00:18:38.660 he called for

00:18:39.740 the excommunication

00:18:40.700 of the alt-right

00:18:41.920 from the Lutheran Church

00:18:43.140 of Missouri Synod

00:18:43.780 and blamed the alt-right

00:18:44.840 on causing

00:18:45.620 the catechism controversy.

00:18:47.700 Not the publishers

00:18:48.400 or the people

00:18:49.000 that he said

00:18:49.560 could have worded

00:18:50.120 things better

00:18:50.680 or anything like that.

00:18:51.860 It was the alt-right.

00:18:52.680 That was the words

00:18:53.320 he used.

00:18:53.860 This wasn't a letter

00:18:54.560 from 2017 or 16.

00:18:56.840 This is last year.

00:18:58.480 Like some kind

00:18:59.000 of Vox journalist.

00:19:00.320 It's the alt-right

00:19:01.140 hiding in the weeds.

00:19:02.860 Yeah, right.

00:19:03.840 As if I'm even

00:19:05.300 old enough

00:19:06.060 to have been

00:19:06.840 affiliated

00:19:07.520 with the alt-right

00:19:08.460 in my life.

00:19:09.680 So that's,

00:19:11.020 that was the thing

00:19:12.640 that he put out.

00:19:13.780 And in that,

00:19:14.600 he had a bunch of...

00:19:14.960 By the way,

00:19:14.980 thank you for making me

00:19:15.740 feel real old

00:19:16.440 because I just realized

00:19:17.540 that you are too young.

00:19:19.240 You would have been

00:19:19.660 like playing with,

00:19:20.460 with like Yu-Gi-Oh cards

00:19:22.020 when the alt-right

00:19:22.680 was anything of note

00:19:25.520 in the public culture.

00:19:26.600 But go ahead and say...

00:19:27.360 Yeah, I was in,

00:19:28.220 I was in eighth grade

00:19:29.080 when the 2016 election

00:19:30.460 was going on.

00:19:31.260 So like that was the,

00:19:32.740 and that's the end

00:19:33.900 of the alt-right

00:19:34.580 sort of around that time.

00:19:35.920 So that was,

00:19:37.660 that was the word

00:19:38.520 he dredged up.

00:19:39.660 He exhumed that

00:19:40.740 from,

00:19:41.340 from the graveyard.

00:19:42.360 And branded us

00:19:44.100 with that.

00:19:44.580 And if you want to talk

00:19:45.960 about theological details,

00:19:47.280 he offered categorical

00:19:48.440 condemnations of sin

00:19:49.620 for a bunch of different

00:19:50.420 things that sound

00:19:51.140 really scary.

00:19:51.920 But if you just look

00:19:53.160 at scripture

00:19:53.580 for more than five seconds,

00:19:54.800 you'll see that it's

00:19:55.660 a pretty big issue

00:19:56.860 that he condemned

00:19:57.400 these things.

00:19:58.020 So I'll take perhaps

00:19:59.260 the scariest sounding one

00:20:00.900 that he condemned

00:20:01.700 categorically.

00:20:02.560 So without exception,

00:20:04.080 in all cases,

00:20:05.380 the president of the LCMS

00:20:07.280 speaking on behalf

00:20:08.140 of every congregation,

00:20:09.680 the district presidents

00:20:10.540 and whatever else,

00:20:11.940 condemned categorically

00:20:13.280 genocide.

00:20:14.320 And that's really scary.

00:20:15.360 Surely everyone should

00:20:16.280 just categorically

00:20:17.100 condemn genocide

00:20:17.860 until you realize

00:20:19.240 that God omnisided

00:20:20.600 the earth,

00:20:21.080 except for,

00:20:21.840 I think,

00:20:22.420 eight people

00:20:23.080 in Genesis.

00:20:24.760 So if there is

00:20:26.160 such a thing

00:20:26.580 as a categorical

00:20:27.480 condemnation for this,

00:20:29.080 God himself

00:20:29.860 is guilty of this sin.

00:20:30.840 So there's already

00:20:31.580 a theological issue here.

00:20:33.680 Maybe perhaps

00:20:34.840 they are drawing

00:20:36.000 scary accusations

00:20:38.000 out from the darkness

00:20:38.960 to label people with

00:20:40.260 when really it has

00:20:41.900 nothing to do

00:20:42.420 with the issue at hand

00:20:43.160 like this subversive

00:20:44.320 catechism that was published.

00:20:46.380 So that was the letter.

00:20:48.560 Very sloppily written,

00:20:50.340 theologically not sound.

00:20:52.620 It's using outdated

00:20:54.000 political language

00:20:54.980 to accuse opponents

00:20:56.940 of their great catechism.

00:20:58.860 And then come March,

00:20:59.680 I find out

00:21:00.920 through my campus pastor

00:21:02.880 who was a,

00:21:03.920 he's basically

00:21:04.580 the equivalent

00:21:05.100 of an overseer

00:21:05.920 for this geographic region

00:21:07.480 in northern Oklahoma.

00:21:09.400 He and my pastor

00:21:11.300 back at home

00:21:11.940 in Ponca City

00:21:12.640 informed the elders

00:21:15.120 of Ponca City,

00:21:16.720 excluding my dad

00:21:17.560 who was an elder,

00:21:18.180 he got a separate email

00:21:19.160 that was a little bit

00:21:19.800 less detailed

00:21:20.460 that I was going

00:21:21.680 to have to be talked to

00:21:22.620 because my online activity

00:21:24.280 was deeply concerning

00:21:25.600 to them.

00:21:26.040 That was the words

00:21:26.560 that they used,

00:21:27.160 deeply concerned.

00:21:27.880 When I found out

00:21:29.680 my friend got a great deal

00:21:31.060 on a designer dress

00:21:31.900 from Winners,

00:21:32.700 I started wondering,

00:21:34.340 is every fabulous item

00:21:35.880 I see from Winners?

00:21:37.500 Like that woman over there

00:21:38.760 with the Italian leather handbag,

00:21:40.420 is that from Winners?

00:21:41.620 Ooh,

00:21:42.240 or that beautiful silk skirt,

00:21:44.160 did she pay full price?

00:21:45.380 Or those suede sneakers?

00:21:46.960 Or that luggage?

00:21:48.060 Or that trench?

00:21:49.180 Those jeans?

00:21:49.880 That jacket?

00:21:50.620 Those heels?

00:21:51.480 Is anyone paying full price

00:21:53.200 for anything?

00:21:54.460 Stop wondering.

00:21:55.720 Start winning.

00:21:56.640 Winners,

00:21:57.220 find fabulous for less.

00:21:59.500 That was the start of this.

00:22:02.680 I met with that campus pastor

00:22:04.220 quite a few times

00:22:05.040 to try to figure out

00:22:05.900 what was going on.

00:22:06.680 The first meeting

00:22:07.180 was much more jovial,

00:22:08.740 sort of just like

00:22:09.380 they're checking off

00:22:10.620 a checklist.

00:22:11.720 We just have to make sure

00:22:13.060 what we all know

00:22:13.780 and make sure

00:22:14.240 that you're a normal Christian

00:22:15.800 and you aren't too scary

00:22:16.780 and far right.

00:22:17.460 That was the first meeting

00:22:18.280 we left in good spirits.

00:22:20.160 Then come the second meeting,

00:22:21.540 it was much more dour.

00:22:22.440 He was much more afraid.

00:22:24.600 I was told that word

00:22:25.620 had come down from on high

00:22:26.800 to examine me,

00:22:28.340 which is not how the LCMS

00:22:30.020 is supposed to work.

00:22:31.000 It's more congregationalist

00:22:32.660 in polity than it is top down.

00:22:35.060 And that was sort of

00:22:36.760 the first sign

00:22:38.240 that something was

00:22:39.080 really happening here.

00:22:41.020 The other sign

00:22:41.980 that was sort of

00:22:42.720 more implicit

00:22:43.480 was the fact that

00:22:44.780 a series of laymen

00:22:45.880 had been gone after

00:22:47.480 by the Senate

00:22:48.260 up until this point.

00:22:49.460 So basically

00:22:50.420 immediately after

00:22:51.160 Harrison's letter

00:22:51.880 was published

00:22:52.880 there was a layman

00:22:55.280 who most people

00:22:55.980 consider too far right

00:22:57.000 to defend.

00:22:57.540 That's how these things

00:22:58.280 always start

00:22:58.800 down the slippery slope

00:22:59.920 towards the left

00:23:00.580 is they pick a target

00:23:01.940 that you can't

00:23:02.560 respectively defend

00:23:03.500 and they do everything

00:23:04.280 wrong against him,

00:23:05.160 set the precedents,

00:23:06.520 get the bureaucracy

00:23:07.460 sort of accustomed

00:23:10.660 to their new role

00:23:11.500 as witch hunters

00:23:12.340 or whatever else.

00:23:13.640 They had police

00:23:14.500 exclude this man

00:23:15.320 from his church property

00:23:16.300 and they excommunicated

00:23:18.960 to him while he

00:23:19.460 wasn't present.

00:23:20.140 So that's a whole bunch

00:23:21.160 of stuff wrong there.

00:23:22.220 It's not how it's

00:23:22.760 supposed to go.

00:23:23.660 That was the first guy.

00:23:24.720 They then forced

00:23:25.700 his friend out

00:23:26.540 of the congregation

00:23:27.180 by social pressure.

00:23:28.680 That's not Christian

00:23:29.500 in the slightest.

00:23:30.800 And then in Oklahoma

00:23:31.460 just about a week

00:23:32.400 before any of my stuff

00:23:33.420 happened or maybe

00:23:34.460 two weeks very quickly

00:23:36.160 before my stuff happened

00:23:37.240 there's an elder

00:23:38.840 in a congregation

00:23:39.460 who was pressured

00:23:41.500 to resign his eldership

00:23:42.820 because he had

00:23:44.000 associated with

00:23:45.720 these far-right elements

00:23:46.700 and criticized

00:23:47.320 the catechism in public.

00:23:49.320 And he gave in

00:23:51.000 to the pressure,

00:23:51.720 unfortunately,

00:23:52.480 but that's the way it goes.

00:23:53.880 Most people aren't

00:23:55.360 meant to stand up

00:23:56.220 to pressure against people

00:23:57.460 that they thought

00:23:57.960 were supposed to protect them.

00:23:59.900 And then at the end

00:24:00.760 of the meeting

00:24:01.140 he asks for the recording

00:24:02.740 of the meeting

00:24:03.240 because the other side

00:24:04.360 had been keeping

00:24:05.000 an audio recording

00:24:07.100 of the whole thing

00:24:07.760 and he was denied

00:24:08.960 a recording.

00:24:10.480 So the other side

00:24:12.240 denied him

00:24:13.120 the recording

00:24:13.700 of their meeting,

00:24:14.520 refused to give it to him,

00:24:15.720 and so I brought that up

00:24:17.020 with the campus pastor

00:24:18.420 who was this overseer

00:24:19.680 type figure

00:24:20.280 and I said,

00:24:21.440 is this going to happen

00:24:22.320 with me?

00:24:23.340 Is this allowed?

00:24:24.940 Is this legitimate?

00:24:25.760 Is this what Christians do?

00:24:27.240 And the thing I was told

00:24:28.180 at the end of this whole

00:24:29.080 line of questioning

00:24:29.700 was, well,

00:24:30.160 why didn't he record it himself?

00:24:31.780 So from then on out

00:24:33.060 I was recording

00:24:33.600 absolutely everything

00:24:34.640 that was involved

00:24:35.300 with me,

00:24:35.820 with them.

00:24:37.580 Thankfully I did so

00:24:38.660 and eventually

00:24:40.120 I was brought in

00:24:40.760 for questioning.

00:24:41.300 I was told

00:24:42.640 to denounce

00:24:43.520 a group of people's

00:24:46.260 persons.

00:24:47.180 Not their ideas

00:24:48.060 or their statements

00:24:48.740 or beliefs

00:24:49.300 but their persons.

00:24:50.560 If you want to know

00:24:51.140 what that is

00:24:51.660 or what that entails,

00:24:52.640 what the details are,

00:24:54.780 you're not going

00:24:55.780 to get an answer

00:24:56.360 because I didn't get one

00:24:57.280 during that meeting either.

00:24:58.820 So that was why

00:24:59.800 I was told to do

00:25:00.400 that meeting.

00:25:01.020 I offered to go

00:25:01.740 through beliefs

00:25:02.460 to actually tell them

00:25:04.200 what I believed

00:25:05.040 about things

00:25:05.620 so that they could

00:25:06.240 examine me properly

00:25:07.240 and they refused.

00:25:08.400 They said that I was

00:25:09.100 trying to litigate

00:25:09.860 out the meeting,

00:25:10.540 trying to drag it out

00:25:11.500 and all this other stuff

00:25:12.420 as if Christians

00:25:14.860 aren't supposed to

00:25:15.700 go off of beliefs

00:25:16.600 and faith

00:25:17.240 but off of associations

00:25:18.880 and political affiliations.

00:25:21.880 So that's how

00:25:22.780 this meeting ended.

00:25:23.460 I refused to give in.

00:25:24.920 This was a,

00:25:25.780 it was a very abortive meeting.

00:25:28.380 It was not organized properly

00:25:29.880 and that was even recognized

00:25:32.000 on the other side.

00:25:32.820 I received an apology

00:25:33.740 by text message

00:25:34.740 from the guy

00:25:35.260 who organized it,

00:25:36.100 the pastor here

00:25:37.060 in Ponca City.

00:25:38.400 He apologized

00:25:39.180 for mishandling the meeting

00:25:40.660 and then as time goes on

00:25:42.680 sort of went quiet

00:25:43.640 for a few weeks

00:25:44.460 and then my father

00:25:46.560 informed me

00:25:47.100 in an elders meeting

00:25:47.840 that,

00:25:48.320 and this was their words,

00:25:49.160 they wanted to put me

00:25:49.780 through a tribunal

00:25:50.560 to question my beliefs

00:25:52.920 and associations.

00:25:54.580 Very,

00:25:55.120 very Christian

00:25:56.060 point of organization.

00:25:57.700 I remember the holy tribunals

00:25:59.100 that were held

00:26:00.160 in the New Testament.

00:26:01.320 That's definitely

00:26:02.580 how it works.

00:26:04.420 So I reached out to them

00:26:06.300 and basically just said,

00:26:08.240 hey,

00:26:08.520 if you want to hold

00:26:09.120 a tribunal against me,

00:26:10.840 these are the things

00:26:12.020 I'm going to need done

00:26:14.320 to trust it

00:26:15.080 and that included

00:26:15.980 that they wouldn't

00:26:16.820 try to pressure me

00:26:18.080 to give up my public voice

00:26:19.940 online,

00:26:21.160 that they wouldn't try to,

00:26:22.460 that I would be allowed

00:26:23.280 the recording of the meeting

00:26:24.420 and all this other stuff

00:26:25.900 and I just denied all of that

00:26:27.920 so the meeting never happened

00:26:29.080 and then a few weeks later

00:26:31.140 after this whole thing

00:26:32.140 sort of degenerated

00:26:33.000 even further,

00:26:33.580 I tried to call up

00:26:34.540 the hierarchy.

00:26:35.360 There's no official

00:26:36.060 system of appeals

00:26:37.100 to go to a higher authority

00:26:38.680 and say,

00:26:39.120 hey,

00:26:39.200 this is being done wrong.

00:26:40.220 Can I have a better meeting

00:26:42.280 or something like that?

00:26:43.100 That doesn't exist.

00:26:44.240 So I just tried to call up

00:26:45.260 the hierarchy informally.

00:26:46.800 I called the district president

00:26:47.880 of the Oklahoma district,

00:26:49.680 Reverend Narens.

00:26:50.880 I called a Senate vice president

00:26:52.920 and I just got no calls back

00:26:55.100 at all.

00:26:56.320 Radio silence

00:26:57.220 from anyone up the chain.

00:26:59.140 So,

00:26:59.660 you know,

00:27:00.620 I was very much left

00:27:01.680 in the darkness

00:27:02.260 and so I think it was

00:27:04.540 May 18th,

00:27:05.400 if I remember correctly,

00:27:06.260 of last year,

00:27:07.020 a few weeks after

00:27:07.880 the tribunal organization

00:27:09.900 fell through,

00:27:11.300 I published all the recordings

00:27:13.000 that I had on Twitter

00:27:14.560 on my account

00:27:15.280 just to show everyone,

00:27:16.920 hey,

00:27:17.060 this is what's going on.

00:27:18.260 They've recorded other people

00:27:19.400 so this is why I recorded this

00:27:21.140 and they've basically

00:27:22.800 deprived me of any recourse.

00:27:25.460 If any of this was done wrong,

00:27:26.820 they've deprived me

00:27:27.480 of a second chance

00:27:28.680 or something

00:27:29.080 to get a fair hearing.

00:27:30.700 So that went out

00:27:32.180 last May

00:27:33.920 and then a couple of days later

00:27:36.980 I received by email

00:27:38.100 a notice that I had been put

00:27:39.440 under what's called

00:27:40.040 the minor ban.

00:27:41.640 This is like the step

00:27:43.020 before excommunication

00:27:44.240 within Lutheranism

00:27:45.220 and for context,

00:27:47.840 usually the application

00:27:49.500 for the minor ban

00:27:50.300 is against, say,

00:27:51.100 cohabitating couples.

00:27:52.760 So say a pastor finds

00:27:54.000 that a couple is cohabitating

00:27:55.460 in his congregation

00:27:56.160 and they don't

00:27:58.260 immediately fix it.

00:27:59.220 Well, he puts them

00:28:00.160 under the minor ban

00:28:00.980 to sort of show them

00:28:02.940 the weight of the issue.

00:28:04.380 You know,

00:28:04.760 marry or move out

00:28:06.160 or you're not going

00:28:07.300 to receive communion here.

00:28:08.480 It's like a stopgap measure,

00:28:09.760 a very quick response.

00:28:10.980 So it's a practical concern.

00:28:12.940 You typically don't use it

00:28:14.500 because the congregant

00:28:15.920 is affiliating with people

00:28:18.040 that you don't like online.

00:28:19.620 That was two of the charges

00:28:21.540 against me.

00:28:22.400 One of the other charges

00:28:23.320 was I had disrespected

00:28:24.440 their authority

00:28:25.000 because I didn't give in

00:28:25.960 to these charges,

00:28:26.760 which they just presumed

00:28:27.760 to be completely true

00:28:28.800 and absolutely correct.

00:28:31.320 And then the other two charges

00:28:32.600 were that I had wrongly criticized

00:28:35.300 the catechism

00:28:36.020 that was put out last January.

00:28:37.480 So two-fifths of my charges

00:28:38.700 for having communion,

00:28:40.700 a sacrament withheld from me,

00:28:42.480 was tied to my criticisms

00:28:44.460 of this catechism

00:28:45.400 from last January.

00:28:46.580 And that was the end of the story

00:28:48.060 until very recently.

00:28:49.080 It has to have a good slice

00:28:53.200 of irony here

00:28:54.140 that a denomination

00:28:55.960 literally named for someone

00:28:57.640 who criticized the corruption

00:28:59.920 of church doctrine

00:29:01.140 went after you

00:29:03.040 and tried to completely destroy you

00:29:06.020 for pointing out the corruption

00:29:08.140 of church doctrine.

00:29:09.980 And that they would hold that

00:29:10.860 simply pointing that out,

00:29:12.560 not going out to be ready

00:29:14.040 to hurt anyone,

00:29:15.200 not preaching a false gospel,

00:29:16.740 not just simply pointing out

00:29:19.560 that they themselves

00:29:20.600 were going through the process

00:29:22.900 of corrupting

00:29:23.900 the truth of God's word

00:29:25.400 is enough to go ahead

00:29:27.460 and ban you

00:29:28.160 from what is supposed to be

00:29:29.600 a very conservative denomination.

00:29:32.100 I think that it's pretty clear here

00:29:34.540 that what you have

00:29:35.700 is a scenario

00:29:36.600 where guys got caught.

00:29:39.660 They got embarrassed

00:29:40.860 by someone who was willing

00:29:43.800 to stand up

00:29:44.720 against this corruption.

00:29:46.740 And then they started

00:29:47.840 looking for reasons

00:29:49.280 to go ahead

00:29:50.660 and kind of push against you.

00:29:52.740 The fact that they would

00:29:54.220 go ahead and demand,

00:29:56.440 you know,

00:29:57.460 your denial of people

00:29:59.100 and you would offer

00:29:59.920 and say,

00:30:00.240 well, what did they do?

00:30:01.560 Let's talk about this.

00:30:02.680 Let's, you know,

00:30:03.020 rather than just,

00:30:03.820 you know,

00:30:04.980 some blanket declaration,

00:30:07.260 go ahead and let me know

00:30:08.100 what they've committed,

00:30:10.000 what lies they've told,

00:30:11.000 and we can discuss this.

00:30:12.280 But no,

00:30:12.820 none of this is acceptable.

00:30:14.740 And of course,

00:30:15.880 the fact that you recorded this

00:30:18.120 so that it was clear

00:30:19.260 how corrupt this process was,

00:30:21.700 I think ultimately puts them

00:30:23.400 in a position

00:30:24.160 where they just going to,

00:30:25.980 they have to go ahead

00:30:27.000 and deny all of this

00:30:28.500 and then push for this,

00:30:30.340 even though very clearly

00:30:31.460 what you're seeing

00:30:32.420 is just a kangaroo court.

00:30:35.480 You don't have any proper application

00:30:38.220 of established institutions.

00:30:40.220 You're using instruments

00:30:41.660 of church discipline

00:30:42.920 in ways that they would

00:30:44.160 never otherwise be used.

00:30:46.180 And, you know,

00:30:46.640 the truth,

00:30:47.280 let's be honest,

00:30:48.240 church discipline

00:30:49.540 is something that is ignored

00:30:51.640 in pretty much all churches

00:30:53.000 at this point, right?

00:30:54.140 Like, we see this

00:30:55.520 pretty consistently.

00:30:57.060 People carry on relationships.

00:30:58.980 They engage in open sin.

00:31:04.000 You know,

00:31:04.360 they are proud about those facts.

00:31:07.040 They advocate for political positions

00:31:10.320 that go directly against

00:31:12.240 church teachings

00:31:13.500 on things like being,

00:31:15.080 you know,

00:31:15.520 pro-life and whatnot.

00:31:16.680 And they suffer none of the

00:31:18.540 treatment that you received here.

00:31:21.140 Right.

00:31:21.780 And the fact that

00:31:22.360 a conservative denomination

00:31:23.900 would go after you

00:31:26.300 saying you're too right-wing,

00:31:28.320 while other people

00:31:29.360 who openly advocate

00:31:30.780 against church doctrine

00:31:32.060 continue to receive communion

00:31:33.380 and have no church discipline

00:31:35.040 really shows,

00:31:37.300 I think,

00:31:38.140 where they line up, right?

00:31:40.220 It shows how willing

00:31:41.780 they are to go ahead

00:31:43.520 and push only in one direction.

00:31:45.700 And they feel very strongly

00:31:47.460 like they can get away

00:31:48.820 with pushing against that

00:31:50.500 and using leftist tactics,

00:31:52.460 using leftist morality,

00:31:54.400 using progressive social

00:31:55.880 cancel culture

00:31:56.780 against you

00:31:58.060 that they would never use

00:31:59.360 against people

00:31:59.940 who are more left-wing

00:32:01.160 and violating

00:32:01.880 quite openly

00:32:03.300 church doctrine.

00:32:04.480 because they know

00:32:05.440 they can use the power

00:32:06.640 of leftist social pressure

00:32:08.180 and not feeling heat

00:32:10.040 from the outside

00:32:11.640 when they do it.

00:32:12.940 Right.

00:32:13.080 And that's exactly right.

00:32:14.280 At the very least,

00:32:15.080 this illustrates

00:32:15.580 there's a choice

00:32:16.400 who they go after.

00:32:17.220 They have the means

00:32:17.940 to stop

00:32:18.660 all of the leftward slide

00:32:20.240 that we've seen

00:32:20.860 for the last 20 years or so.

00:32:22.720 They just haven't.

00:32:24.100 It's when their respectability

00:32:25.480 is threatened

00:32:25.920 that they start to

00:32:26.700 go after people.

00:32:28.480 Lehman, in particular,

00:32:29.400 that's a very egregious thing

00:32:30.740 is that the president

00:32:32.120 of the Senate

00:32:32.740 was going after laymen,

00:32:34.100 these laity,

00:32:35.180 just non-ordained men

00:32:37.380 in congregations

00:32:38.440 that had no actual

00:32:40.000 official association

00:32:41.340 with the Senate hierarchy itself,

00:32:43.580 just the congregation.

00:32:44.820 That was what threatened them

00:32:46.160 the most

00:32:46.520 out of the last 20 years or so.

00:32:48.840 So, but,

00:32:49.720 and I should mention this

00:32:50.960 is that I can finish off

00:32:52.920 the story here

00:32:53.440 for just like two minutes

00:32:54.480 because there was just

00:32:55.680 a little bit more things

00:32:56.860 that happened this year

00:32:57.820 that really,

00:32:58.880 really highlight

00:32:59.900 how much of a choice

00:33:01.040 this was

00:33:01.620 for these conservatives

00:33:02.420 to go after the people

00:33:03.400 to their right

00:33:03.980 and that was the only target

00:33:05.620 that they've had

00:33:06.220 for the entire time

00:33:07.060 they've ran

00:33:07.540 this conservative denomination.

00:33:09.920 Is that earlier this year

00:33:11.900 I had a bunch of pastors

00:33:12.900 reach out to me

00:33:13.600 from across the country

00:33:14.420 and basically just said,

00:33:15.720 hey, why don't you reach out

00:33:16.740 to Pastor Hiley

00:33:17.800 at this,

00:33:18.720 at the Lutheran Church

00:33:19.960 of Ponca City

00:33:20.540 and try to achieve

00:33:21.220 some sort of reconciliation

00:33:22.360 and since I'm,

00:33:24.300 once again,

00:33:24.560 I'm not out

00:33:25.240 to just pick a fight,

00:33:26.500 I said, sure,

00:33:27.280 I can do that.

00:33:28.520 Reached out very amicably

00:33:29.680 and this process

00:33:30.820 of trying to just get

00:33:31.700 a meeting set up

00:33:32.700 to where he and I could meet,

00:33:34.200 I could bring like a,

00:33:35.100 say, a silent witness

00:33:35.940 was the thing

00:33:36.460 that I was advocating,

00:33:37.380 not a recording

00:33:38.000 or even minutes taken,

00:33:39.280 just a silent witness

00:33:40.340 to come with me

00:33:41.820 and we could just get

00:33:43.640 the charges clarified

00:33:44.680 because these charges

00:33:45.580 were very sloppy

00:33:46.360 that were handed to me.

00:33:47.360 There were grammatical errors

00:33:48.300 and doctrinal vagities

00:33:50.140 and inconsistencies

00:33:51.320 so we were just giving them

00:33:53.700 a chance to clarify

00:33:54.440 the charges

00:33:54.980 and then maybe

00:33:55.940 a second meeting

00:33:56.660 to discuss them,

00:33:57.800 not dispute them

00:33:58.740 or argue them

00:33:59.380 or whatever else

00:34:00.020 but just discuss

00:34:00.820 the nature of the charges,

00:34:02.280 why they were being done,

00:34:03.380 who, if they were being

00:34:04.360 pressured at all

00:34:05.100 from the hierarchy,

00:34:05.980 that's something

00:34:06.340 that we've been wondering

00:34:07.120 this whole time.

00:34:07.880 We don't have direct proof

00:34:08.900 but every action

00:34:10.640 that's taken by Hiley

00:34:12.200 at this congregation

00:34:13.360 of First Lutheran

00:34:13.960 seems to signal

00:34:14.840 that there is pressure

00:34:17.560 coming down from on high

00:34:18.580 so it took months

00:34:20.000 for this meeting

00:34:20.660 to even get off the ground

00:34:23.360 and then when they finally accepted,

00:34:26.680 all right,

00:34:26.940 we have dates

00:34:27.600 that this meeting

00:34:29.280 can happen on,

00:34:30.460 I was told in an email

00:34:32.100 that had a completely

00:34:33.660 different font size,

00:34:34.600 a different tone,

00:34:35.320 different sign off,

00:34:36.460 still had Hiley's name

00:34:37.580 signed to it though,

00:34:38.920 that there would be

00:34:39.680 no witness,

00:34:40.960 that the purpose

00:34:41.480 of this meeting

00:34:42.020 was now for me

00:34:42.700 to come to repentance,

00:34:43.740 not to discuss anything

00:34:44.820 and that was,

00:34:46.980 those things

00:34:47.760 were unacceptable,

00:34:48.580 especially denying

00:34:49.420 someone a witness

00:34:50.180 at these private meetings

00:34:51.980 ostensibly

00:34:52.700 and this was where

00:34:55.700 this broke down

00:34:56.420 and I eventually,

00:34:58.160 I responded to this

00:34:59.620 heatedly

00:35:00.340 but a whole bunch

00:35:01.640 of people read over this

00:35:02.620 and they said

00:35:03.080 that the heat

00:35:03.800 wasn't in sinful excess

00:35:06.040 because this was egregious,

00:35:08.360 this was obscene,

00:35:09.500 to just accept it politely

00:35:10.620 would be a lack

00:35:12.140 of consequence

00:35:12.740 that should exist

00:35:13.760 for just abusing

00:35:15.540 someone like this

00:35:16.480 was the line

00:35:18.260 that was given.

00:35:18.940 I responded

00:35:19.500 and I said,

00:35:19.960 all right,

00:35:20.200 fine,

00:35:20.440 I'll give up the witness,

00:35:21.660 we can have this thing

00:35:22.980 dictated to me

00:35:23.720 but I'm recording the meeting,

00:35:24.780 I have to have a record

00:35:25.760 of this from myself,

00:35:27.460 that was denied to me

00:35:29.060 and so this meeting

00:35:31.340 never happened,

00:35:32.080 this is April

00:35:33.000 by this point,

00:35:33.960 so this has dragged

00:35:34.700 on for months

00:35:35.600 and at the start

00:35:37.920 of April,

00:35:38.340 April 8th,

00:35:39.340 at about 9.30

00:35:41.160 in the morning

00:35:41.600 I handed in a letter

00:35:42.500 to this congregation

00:35:43.360 in Ponca City

00:35:44.100 that said I rescind

00:35:45.920 all of my spiritual ties

00:35:47.100 and any sort of associations

00:35:48.840 that I have

00:35:49.380 with any of you,

00:35:50.180 you know,

00:35:50.380 I quit the congregation

00:35:51.520 is the summary

00:35:52.300 of this page long letter

00:35:53.720 so I thought

00:35:55.220 that was the end of it,

00:35:56.300 a few weeks roll by

00:35:57.640 so weeks pass

00:35:58.700 and I receive an email

00:36:00.380 that says,

00:36:01.840 in fact,

00:36:02.440 this is the short email

00:36:03.220 that is very quick

00:36:04.400 for me to read out

00:36:05.440 so this would be

00:36:07.760 April 24th,

00:36:09.340 9 o'clock

00:36:10.460 in the morning

00:36:10.940 exactly

00:36:11.440 from Pastor Hiley,

00:36:13.200 First Lutheran Church,

00:36:14.020 Ponca City

00:36:14.480 that says,

00:36:14.980 Ryan,

00:36:15.720 in light of your

00:36:16.340 continued impenitence

00:36:17.400 and your refusal

00:36:18.020 to submit to church discipline,

00:36:19.760 Pastor Hiley

00:36:20.320 and the Board of Elders

00:36:21.140 will present the case

00:36:21.940 for your excommunication

00:36:23.500 to the congregation

00:36:24.720 on Sunday,

00:36:25.440 May the 5th,

00:36:26.260 immediately after

00:36:26.940 the conclusion

00:36:27.500 of the divine service.

00:36:29.000 You are invited

00:36:29.720 to be present

00:36:30.440 for the proceedings.

00:36:31.960 So,

00:36:32.580 weeks after I had

00:36:33.460 quit the congregation,

00:36:34.480 basically,

00:36:35.180 that would be

00:36:35.760 the dissolution

00:36:36.860 of their jurisdiction

00:36:37.640 over me

00:36:38.360 because this is,

00:36:39.820 once again,

00:36:40.080 a more congregationalist polity

00:36:41.720 like you would find

00:36:42.720 in most of the other

00:36:43.740 Protestant churches

00:36:44.520 in the United States.

00:36:46.540 They're saying,

00:36:47.260 all right,

00:36:47.540 now we're going to take

00:36:48.360 official action against you

00:36:49.560 that's binding

00:36:50.000 across the whole denomination

00:36:51.300 and we're going to

00:36:51.940 capital E

00:36:52.640 excommunicate you.

00:36:54.580 So,

00:36:55.640 if this is done,

00:36:56.940 if this is accepted

00:36:57.680 as valid,

00:36:58.200 if it were to happen,

00:36:59.560 that would bar me

00:37:00.780 from the altar

00:37:01.700 at any LCMS congregation

00:37:03.640 if this is accepted

00:37:05.260 as valid.

00:37:06.340 Just emphasizing that.

00:37:08.320 And further to this insult,

00:37:10.200 basically,

00:37:10.680 that's what I would

00:37:11.400 consider this.

00:37:12.480 You are invited

00:37:13.260 to be present

00:37:13.880 for the proceedings,

00:37:14.760 not when can you

00:37:15.720 be present,

00:37:16.500 can you make it,

00:37:17.560 or something else.

00:37:18.180 Can you represent yourself,

00:37:19.540 have a voice,

00:37:20.260 can you at least witness it?

00:37:21.760 No, you're invited.

00:37:22.660 It's going to happen

00:37:23.360 whether I am there or not

00:37:24.460 and that's exactly

00:37:25.060 what happened

00:37:25.620 because I had an obligation

00:37:27.060 that day,

00:37:27.780 I was in Tulsa,

00:37:28.920 for something professional.

00:37:30.100 This was not

00:37:30.500 a superfluous activity,

00:37:32.240 something recreational.

00:37:33.320 I had to be in Tulsa

00:37:34.780 May the 5th

00:37:36.040 on that Sunday afternoon.

00:37:37.620 So I wasn't there.

00:37:38.740 They went ahead

00:37:39.300 with the proceedings.

00:37:40.620 They changed the rules.

00:37:42.020 If someone abstained

00:37:43.200 from the voting,

00:37:43.800 they just didn't acknowledge

00:37:44.700 that that person was there

00:37:45.760 so they could have

00:37:47.340 their coveted,

00:37:48.740 unanimous vote against me.

00:37:50.660 They acknowledged

00:37:51.480 that I had rescinded

00:37:52.800 my membership,

00:37:53.580 but they said

00:37:54.020 they weren't going

00:37:54.580 to accept it

00:37:55.400 as if that was required.

00:37:57.260 And the stated reasoning

00:37:58.360 given was that

00:37:59.520 this was a punitive measure.

00:38:00.740 That was their words.

00:38:01.580 This was a punitive action

00:38:02.760 because if a child

00:38:04.260 does something terribly wrong

00:38:05.640 and stops right before,

00:38:06.940 say, a line is crossed,

00:38:08.980 you still punish them

00:38:09.780 because just because

00:38:10.500 they stopped,

00:38:11.060 you don't give away

00:38:12.020 the punishment.

00:38:12.780 So that's not how

00:38:15.140 excommunications

00:38:15.860 are supposed to work

00:38:16.620 in the Lutheran Church,

00:38:17.480 especially given our history.

00:38:18.900 They are not punitive.

00:38:19.760 They are not punitive

00:38:20.460 social pressures.

00:38:22.240 They're meant to,

00:38:23.120 it's the last possible

00:38:24.500 opportunity

00:38:25.060 that the church can take

00:38:26.120 to bring someone

00:38:27.780 back into the fold.

00:38:28.820 And they're supposed

00:38:29.220 to just show the person

00:38:30.220 the weight of the sin.

00:38:31.480 So this is like

00:38:32.340 if you have an adulterer

00:38:33.660 or someone

00:38:34.320 that refuses to acknowledge

00:38:35.840 that what they're doing

00:38:36.480 is wrong

00:38:36.960 and they resist

00:38:37.880 every attempt

00:38:38.760 up until that point,

00:38:39.800 every possible alternative,

00:38:41.480 you level the excommunication

00:38:42.880 against them

00:38:43.400 in hopes that

00:38:43.900 that shows them,

00:38:44.640 huh, you know,

00:38:45.680 maybe I'm the one

00:38:46.480 that's wrong,

00:38:46.960 not everyone else around me.

00:38:49.200 Well, in this case,

00:38:50.900 they acknowledge

00:38:52.440 that this is a punitive measure,

00:38:53.720 something meant to punish me

00:38:55.120 for having done

00:38:55.960 all of these things

00:38:56.820 like criticize their catechism,

00:38:58.720 associate with people

00:38:59.460 they didn't like.

00:39:00.780 And they passed the vote.

00:39:02.220 People abstained.

00:39:03.040 They said,

00:39:03.600 we're just going to ignore that.

00:39:05.320 They pronounced

00:39:06.100 a unanimous vote.

00:39:07.700 And this was read out

00:39:08.640 on a video

00:39:09.420 that's on their Facebook

00:39:10.480 and YouTube

00:39:11.040 on May the 12th

00:39:12.880 on that morning

00:39:14.040 in the church service.

00:39:15.640 Pastor Hiley

00:39:16.480 pronounced me excommunicated.

00:39:18.140 They made it public.

00:39:20.020 And that's where this ends.

00:39:21.980 So we're at a point now

00:39:23.380 to where if pastors,

00:39:25.320 especially,

00:39:25.920 or laity that want

00:39:26.700 to talk to their pastors

00:39:27.700 about this

00:39:28.220 in the Lutheran Church

00:39:28.960 and Missouri Synod

00:39:29.580 don't want this to stand,

00:39:31.980 you know,

00:39:32.200 we need people to recognize

00:39:33.280 that this is not valid

00:39:34.260 because at the very least

00:39:35.800 this is procedurally invalid.

00:39:37.400 They didn't follow procedure.

00:39:39.020 Morally,

00:39:39.520 that's even worse.

00:39:40.640 Like,

00:39:40.940 what have I done wrong

00:39:42.780 that warrants

00:39:43.320 a capital E-X communication?

00:39:45.520 This is certainly nothing

00:39:46.380 that we have leveled

00:39:47.140 in the history

00:39:47.640 of the Lutheran Church

00:39:48.380 against anybody.

00:39:49.480 So this is a

00:39:50.240 completely new precedent

00:39:51.600 after centuries

00:39:53.000 that this is being done.

00:39:54.340 So I have to ask you,

00:39:57.180 obviously,

00:39:57.740 with this level

00:39:59.420 of animus

00:40:01.060 from much

00:40:03.180 of the church leadership,

00:40:04.200 when you see,

00:40:05.340 you know,

00:40:07.280 them embracing

00:40:09.020 kind of a liberalized

00:40:10.740 catechism

00:40:11.540 or the doctrine

00:40:15.520 around it,

00:40:16.800 when other people

00:40:18.220 watch that,

00:40:19.100 what has been

00:40:19.480 their response?

00:40:20.380 I mean,

00:40:20.660 they saw the things

00:40:22.120 you saw,

00:40:22.920 they saw the language used,

00:40:24.700 they saw the kind of

00:40:26.620 two-step

00:40:27.260 that the leadership used

00:40:28.560 to go ahead

00:40:29.040 and push this through,

00:40:30.200 and then they saw

00:40:31.220 the response

00:40:32.180 and kind of

00:40:33.080 the targeting of you

00:40:34.320 for bringing up

00:40:35.960 questions that

00:40:36.960 even the leadership

00:40:37.620 themselves acknowledged

00:40:38.780 were valid

00:40:39.700 before doubling down

00:40:40.820 on these changes.

00:40:43.040 Have there been

00:40:43.740 pastors?

00:40:44.780 Have there been leaders?

00:40:46.060 Has there been

00:40:46.760 a response

00:40:47.440 of people saying,

00:40:48.720 this is not okay,

00:40:49.760 this is not how

00:40:50.380 we treat people,

00:40:51.200 you know,

00:40:52.040 have you had any

00:40:53.080 support from people

00:40:54.400 who maybe are not

00:40:55.100 directly in leadership

00:40:56.160 but are in places

00:40:57.300 of leadership

00:40:58.080 somewhere in the church

00:40:59.360 and find what's

00:41:00.460 happened to you

00:41:00.880 appalling?

00:41:01.920 So,

00:41:02.660 so far there's been

00:41:03.940 murmurs in the

00:41:05.160 background from

00:41:05.940 especially the more

00:41:06.800 conservative side of

00:41:07.700 things,

00:41:07.960 the support base

00:41:08.680 of the current

00:41:09.680 administration

00:41:10.400 that's running

00:41:11.500 synod.

00:41:12.700 There is a lot of,

00:41:14.100 I know for a fact

00:41:14.960 there's a lot of people,

00:41:16.000 laity and clergy,

00:41:16.800 talking about how

00:41:17.540 appalling this is,

00:41:18.540 and that's all

00:41:21.340 that I really know

00:41:22.080 at this moment

00:41:22.720 but I am rather

00:41:24.600 optimistic

00:41:25.180 that there will be

00:41:28.200 some sort of

00:41:28.720 concerted effort

00:41:29.360 to invalidate this

00:41:30.560 and once again

00:41:31.940 that's just done

00:41:32.620 by pastors saying

00:41:33.780 I'm not going to

00:41:34.500 acknowledge this

00:41:34.980 excommunication.

00:41:36.340 I have a feeling

00:41:37.600 that something will

00:41:38.260 be done,

00:41:38.640 I am optimistic

00:41:39.380 and that's why

00:41:40.100 I'm not giving up

00:41:41.040 on this whole thing

00:41:41.880 just yet,

00:41:42.900 on just the optimism

00:41:44.500 grounds and also

00:41:45.300 because this is,

00:41:46.580 if there is something

00:41:47.200 wrong here,

00:41:47.760 it's the LCMS

00:41:48.380 and not necessarily

00:41:49.140 the Lutheran theology

00:41:50.560 that predates the LCMS

00:41:51.880 by a few centuries

00:41:52.780 so that's,

00:41:55.140 I am optimistic

00:41:56.020 that something will

00:41:56.720 be done

00:41:57.160 especially because

00:41:58.120 this is sort of

00:41:59.500 like a,

00:42:01.060 this is intolerable,

00:42:02.140 this is the point

00:42:02.740 of intolerability

00:42:03.760 for the vast majority

00:42:05.140 of the pastorate

00:42:06.000 even for just

00:42:07.120 mildly conservative

00:42:08.220 pastors.

00:42:09.720 Is this,

00:42:10.560 we've had all

00:42:11.840 of these years

00:42:12.680 of abuses

00:42:13.520 of how the churches

00:42:15.080 are organized,

00:42:15.780 the liturgy

00:42:16.240 of the services,

00:42:17.320 of doctrine,

00:42:18.300 people watering

00:42:18.980 things down

00:42:19.740 and preaching

00:42:20.560 things that are

00:42:21.120 very,

00:42:21.820 very soft

00:42:23.020 on what the world

00:42:24.320 likes and shying

00:42:26.160 away from condemning

00:42:27.000 things that the world

00:42:27.680 likes as well.

00:42:29.180 We've had all this time

00:42:30.460 and the Senate

00:42:31.120 has basically just said

00:42:31.960 our hands are tied,

00:42:32.900 we can't rock the boat

00:42:33.980 too terribly hard,

00:42:35.020 we just have to live

00:42:35.920 with people we disagree

00:42:37.200 with and whatnot else

00:42:38.320 but finally now that

00:42:39.600 someone too far

00:42:40.240 to the right

00:42:40.660 has spoken up

00:42:41.300 at least by their view,

00:42:42.920 finally now that

00:42:44.780 that has happened,

00:42:45.440 they pronounce me

00:42:46.900 to be not a Christian,

00:42:48.680 damned to hell,

00:42:49.700 outside the church

00:42:50.640 and whatnot else,

00:42:51.560 it's showing a lot

00:42:52.780 of these pastors

00:42:53.460 that the Senate's hands

00:42:54.960 weren't tied

00:42:55.480 this entire time,

00:42:56.180 they chose not to act

00:42:57.180 and I do have

00:42:59.320 a pretty good feeling

00:43:00.440 that something

00:43:00.980 will be done

00:43:01.560 about this.

00:43:02.660 So I'm not giving up

00:43:04.400 on it

00:43:04.780 and that's all

00:43:06.020 that I really know.

00:43:07.360 I'm not in

00:43:08.220 on any secret circles

00:43:10.400 of administrators

00:43:12.240 or bureaucrats

00:43:13.060 or clergy

00:43:13.520 or laity

00:43:14.020 or whatever else

00:43:14.800 of like some secret

00:43:16.160 planned rebellion,

00:43:16.900 that's not what

00:43:17.580 I'm a part of.

00:43:18.920 I'm just purely involved

00:43:21.380 in whatever's around me.

00:43:22.740 So that's the state

00:43:24.700 of things

00:43:25.160 and I will say

00:43:27.240 it is absolutely certain

00:43:28.680 that nothing will happen

00:43:29.980 if the word doesn't get out

00:43:30.980 if people don't start

00:43:31.680 talking about this,

00:43:32.900 especially to people

00:43:33.740 that they think

00:43:34.260 are uninvolved

00:43:34.860 because with an excommunication,

00:43:37.040 this is now no longer

00:43:38.780 just some local issue.

00:43:40.700 A church has pronounced

00:43:41.660 me basically untouchable

00:43:44.480 to these other congregations,

00:43:46.200 certainly when it comes

00:43:47.120 to receiving the sacrament

00:43:48.180 at the altar.

00:43:49.400 This is something

00:43:50.080 that concerns everybody now.

00:43:51.420 It's on them to uphold it

00:43:52.520 if I were to show up

00:43:53.260 at their church.

00:43:54.400 So this is now

00:43:55.640 a very public matter.

00:43:57.440 Certainly they publicized

00:43:58.800 it first

00:43:59.260 that I was excommunicated,

00:44:00.520 so they see it

00:44:01.380 as a public matter as well.

00:44:02.520 They put it up

00:44:02.960 on Facebook and YouTube.

00:44:04.120 If something's on the internet,

00:44:05.480 it's as public as can be.

00:44:07.360 So that's what I was taught

00:44:08.820 at this school

00:44:10.200 that I went to

00:44:10.880 attached to this church.

00:44:12.160 So it behooves everyone now

00:44:16.280 to just spread the word.

00:44:17.640 And see,

00:44:18.960 is this tolerable?

00:44:20.540 That would be a great question

00:44:21.640 to ask anybody,

00:44:22.560 laity, clergy,

00:44:23.400 and whatever else.

00:44:23.940 Is this tolerable

00:44:24.620 that this person

00:44:25.280 should be declared damned,

00:44:26.800 should be declared

00:44:27.320 outside the church,

00:44:28.360 should be not welcomed here

00:44:29.680 because this congregation

00:44:30.560 supposedly did things

00:44:31.960 above board?

00:44:33.120 That's the narrative

00:44:34.300 that they are running with

00:44:35.280 to make this valid.

00:44:36.740 It behooves everyone

00:44:38.680 to spread that word.

00:44:40.520 Yeah, it really is outrageous.

00:44:42.880 Again, you know,

00:44:44.640 church discipline

00:44:45.280 is something

00:44:45.720 that is so rarely exercised.

00:44:48.520 And people get away

00:44:49.660 with literally murder

00:44:52.700 without facing often,

00:44:55.700 you know,

00:44:56.060 this kind of opposition.

00:44:58.200 And the fact that

00:44:58.680 they would level this

00:44:59.780 at someone

00:45:01.400 who seems very sincerely

00:45:03.220 to be following the faith

00:45:04.640 and concerned

00:45:05.280 with simply keeping

00:45:07.500 accurate church doctrine,

00:45:09.500 that they would turn on you

00:45:11.160 in a way that seems

00:45:12.680 almost entirely

00:45:13.340 politically motivated

00:45:14.460 is pretty heinous.

00:45:16.600 And so I'm,

00:45:17.940 I hope that you're right.

00:45:19.760 I admire your optimism.

00:45:21.420 I admire your stand here.

00:45:23.020 I think that's probably

00:45:24.760 in the right tradition

00:45:25.860 of a Lutheran.

00:45:28.360 And I think that,

00:45:30.080 I hope ultimately

00:45:31.400 that there are people

00:45:32.680 who see

00:45:33.340 kind of how this has been done

00:45:35.260 because if you let stuff

00:45:36.180 like this stand,

00:45:37.600 then really,

00:45:38.440 what is the purpose

00:45:39.000 of the church?

00:45:39.800 If you are not able

00:45:41.180 to recognize

00:45:41.960 that something like this

00:45:44.260 is just standing

00:45:45.860 against everything

00:45:46.740 that you really should be doing

00:45:49.020 as a church

00:45:50.720 that is interested

00:45:51.340 in following Christ

00:45:53.400 and standing for the word,

00:45:55.040 I think that's,

00:45:56.500 I think it's really important

00:45:57.920 that people,

00:45:58.520 like you said,

00:45:59.060 take notice

00:45:59.960 of what's happening here

00:46:00.840 and push back against it.

00:46:02.040 So thank you,

00:46:03.660 Ryan,

00:46:03.920 for coming on.

00:46:04.780 We've got a number

00:46:05.860 of questions

00:46:06.780 from the people here.

00:46:09.180 I know that

00:46:10.160 you've been very busy,

00:46:11.600 but from time to time

00:46:12.520 you do operate

00:46:13.380 a YouTube channel

00:46:15.020 and have a,

00:46:16.340 or write for Substacks.

00:46:17.920 Do you want to point anybody

00:46:20.020 to anything

00:46:20.960 that you have going on

00:46:23.200 before we go

00:46:23.660 to the questions

00:46:24.100 of the people?

00:46:25.020 Yeah, yeah, gladly.

00:46:25.940 So my Twitter account

00:46:27.700 where you can find

00:46:28.680 the primary source information

00:46:30.340 of all of this

00:46:31.040 is at Turnip Merchant

00:46:32.780 or it's under my name,

00:46:33.940 Ryan Turnipseed.

00:46:34.640 You can find it

00:46:35.200 under either of those

00:46:36.020 on Twitter.

00:46:37.020 You can find the recordings,

00:46:38.580 the documents,

00:46:39.340 the emails,

00:46:39.860 and whatever else

00:46:40.440 that led up to this.

00:46:42.180 Their announcements

00:46:43.160 that the church made

00:46:44.260 on their Facebook.

00:46:45.060 You can find all that there

00:46:46.020 if you are inclined

00:46:47.160 to know more.

00:46:47.920 And I should also mention

00:46:49.260 as well,

00:46:49.880 I'm not asking anyone

00:46:50.940 to agree with me

00:46:51.800 on any of my views at all.

00:46:53.380 I'm just sincerely

00:46:54.760 pointing out

00:46:55.460 that this is not

00:46:56.000 a Christian process,

00:46:57.620 that this is not Christian.

00:46:58.620 That's why I provide

00:46:59.460 this documentation.

00:47:00.680 So none of this

00:47:01.900 is a call for people

00:47:02.800 to rally behind

00:47:03.720 even me or my beliefs,

00:47:05.740 but rather to rally

00:47:06.620 behind some sort

00:47:07.360 of Christianity.

00:47:08.020 So if you want to see

00:47:08.820 the case for that,

00:47:09.740 that's on my Twitter

00:47:10.580 that I just mentioned.

00:47:12.980 Outside of all of this,

00:47:14.100 on my YouTube channel,

00:47:16.020 Ryan Turnipseed,

00:47:16.880 you can find things

00:47:18.600 that delve more

00:47:19.120 into political theory,

00:47:20.220 history, religion,

00:47:21.160 and whatever else.

00:47:22.420 I recently just finished

00:47:24.160 a short series

00:47:24.820 on neoconservatism

00:47:26.020 and what they wrote.

00:47:27.720 So if you hear people

00:47:28.560 being called neocon

00:47:29.560 as a pejorative,

00:47:30.360 you can go watch that

00:47:31.840 to find out

00:47:32.320 it's even worse

00:47:33.040 than what that pejorative

00:47:33.960 is implying.

00:47:34.580 So you can find that,

00:47:36.640 Ryan Turnipseed,

00:47:37.340 on YouTube.

00:47:38.180 And then the Old Glory Club

00:47:39.260 is hosting a conference.

00:47:41.740 Our first annual conference

00:47:42.980 is coming up at the,

00:47:45.000 I think it's June 7th,

00:47:47.220 if I remember correctly.

00:47:49.480 Yes, June 7th,

00:47:50.600 Friday, June 7th

00:47:51.420 is when this conference starts.

00:47:52.480 There are single digit numbers

00:47:53.800 of tickets left

00:47:54.820 if anyone wants to attend.

00:47:56.560 This is going to be

00:47:57.520 an excellent conference,

00:47:59.420 not least because,

00:48:00.300 Mr. McIntyre,

00:48:01.300 you're going to be there

00:48:02.040 as well giving a lecture.

00:48:04.020 So you can find me also

00:48:05.780 on that Old Glory Club

00:48:07.100 substack

00:48:07.980 where I have some

00:48:08.940 older articles there

00:48:09.860 that were written

00:48:11.060 when I had time

00:48:12.000 before all this kicked off

00:48:13.160 talking about legal stuff.

00:48:16.280 So the Civil Rights Acts,

00:48:17.640 I delved into

00:48:18.580 the Civil Rights Acts

00:48:19.540 from the 1950s

00:48:20.820 and actually went

00:48:21.420 line by line

00:48:22.260 explaining why

00:48:23.060 this is a tyrannical overreach.

00:48:25.900 But I would absolutely

00:48:27.260 encourage anyone

00:48:28.080 to attend that

00:48:28.800 Old Glory Club conference

00:48:30.200 at the very least

00:48:31.500 because it's a group

00:48:32.280 of very normal

00:48:33.000 and well-accomplished people,

00:48:34.420 usually family men,

00:48:35.800 very intelligent people

00:48:37.440 that are sane

00:48:38.060 politically and historically,

00:48:39.720 people on the right

00:48:40.560 that are uncompromising,

00:48:42.280 not ashamed of it,

00:48:43.500 and trying to actually

00:48:44.440 find truth.

00:48:45.260 You know,

00:48:45.420 they're not looking

00:48:46.060 through a filter

00:48:46.620 of what will people accept.

00:48:47.780 They're looking through

00:48:48.300 a filter of what's true.

00:48:49.920 So I would encourage

00:48:51.640 everyone to go check that out

00:48:52.960 while the time

00:48:54.060 and the tickets

00:48:54.440 are still available,

00:48:55.420 but that's quickly running out.

00:48:57.020 So that's where

00:48:57.640 I direct people.

00:48:59.040 Absolutely.

00:48:59.360 All right, guys,

00:49:00.240 let's take a look

00:49:00.940 at your questions.

00:49:02.920 Wolfbane says,

00:49:04.280 have you or Ryan Turnipseed

00:49:05.780 heard of the Corbin Society,

00:49:08.740 their YouTube channel club

00:49:10.100 trying to work out

00:49:11.260 NREX thought

00:49:12.300 in the real world

00:49:13.420 or with real world application

00:49:15.260 and with fun SW language?

00:49:18.660 I can't say that

00:49:19.560 I have seen that YouTube channel.

00:49:21.400 Have you, Ryan?

00:49:22.820 No, I have not, unfortunately.

00:49:24.920 But now we know about it,

00:49:26.000 so thank you very much.

00:49:26.880 Appreciate that.

00:49:27.580 Let's see.

00:49:28.420 We've got Evan M here

00:49:30.260 who says,

00:49:30.840 anybody who thinks

00:49:32.400 Ryan is just a rabble rouser

00:49:34.340 in the Lutheran church

00:49:35.620 may want to look up

00:49:37.020 an obscure rabble rouser

00:49:39.260 named Martin Luther.

00:49:40.760 Yeah.

00:49:41.560 Well done.

00:49:42.080 Yes, absolutely.

00:49:43.400 Let's see here.

00:49:45.060 Arthur T, $50.

00:49:46.540 Thank you very much, man.

00:49:47.400 Appreciate the support

00:49:48.220 of the channel.

00:49:49.160 Modern Christianity

00:49:49.980 will have to stop

00:49:51.100 being the shadow

00:49:51.960 that follows

00:49:52.820 the world's radicalism

00:49:53.940 or will cease to exist

00:49:55.420 at all.

00:49:56.040 What could not serve

00:49:57.220 two masters

00:49:57.920 are more schisms

00:49:59.620 amongst denominations

00:50:00.860 in store for the future.

00:50:02.980 Yeah, it's pretty clear

00:50:04.620 that there is a huge battle

00:50:07.540 in most denominations.

00:50:09.320 Again, I think between

00:50:10.260 kind of the top leadership,

00:50:13.280 especially those plugged

00:50:14.200 into centralized organizations

00:50:16.700 and the actual people,

00:50:19.320 the actual congregations

00:50:20.640 and the local leadership.

00:50:22.320 I think we're seeing that

00:50:23.300 again, sadly,

00:50:24.140 across many different

00:50:25.720 denominations,

00:50:26.560 even those that are

00:50:27.460 traditionally thought of

00:50:28.560 as being conservative.

00:50:31.260 I hope that these denominations

00:50:33.320 are able to stand against this.

00:50:35.400 I hope that that doesn't

00:50:36.180 require a schism,

00:50:37.400 but that means,

00:50:38.660 as Ryan has pointed out,

00:50:40.340 that you need people

00:50:41.120 to take notice,

00:50:42.200 people to take action,

00:50:43.280 say something to care

00:50:44.360 when things like this happen,

00:50:46.240 because if these leaders

00:50:47.620 are able to go ahead

00:50:48.740 and manipulate procedures

00:50:50.600 and push down,

00:50:51.820 you know,

00:50:52.940 liberalizing doctrine

00:50:53.960 without any intervention,

00:50:55.300 anyone standing up against it

00:50:57.040 and punish those

00:50:57.840 who would notice it,

00:50:59.600 then I think,

00:51:00.380 unfortunately,

00:51:00.760 you're going to see

00:51:01.500 these once venerable organizations

00:51:04.340 continue to erode.

00:51:06.080 Right, and very briefly,

00:51:08.480 I know I'm not supposed

00:51:09.360 to bring up new topics

00:51:10.800 and closing statements,

00:51:12.480 but just very briefly,

00:51:13.680 because it should be

00:51:14.240 self-explanatory.

00:51:15.660 Once again,

00:51:16.320 this is done at the behest

00:51:17.820 of the older generation

00:51:19.020 of conservative leadership.

00:51:20.240 This is not a liberal faction

00:51:21.480 doing all this.

00:51:22.320 This is good,

00:51:23.520 respectable conservatives

00:51:24.760 and good,

00:51:25.480 respectable conservative academics

00:51:26.980 pushing all of this.

00:51:28.620 And if you want to get

00:51:29.600 into the sort of like

00:51:30.460 the psychology behind it,

00:51:31.640 if I could offer an opinion,

00:51:33.160 it's because they think

00:51:34.060 they are definitionally conservative.

00:51:35.980 They're pro-life.

00:51:37.200 They vote for the GOP

00:51:38.440 come election time.

00:51:40.280 They are in the conservative

00:51:42.480 denomination and leading it,

00:51:43.900 so anything they do

00:51:44.820 must be conservative,

00:51:45.960 because they are the conservatives

00:51:47.140 by definition.

00:51:48.640 And especially in this

00:51:49.540 older generation,

00:51:50.580 anyone that follows

00:51:51.280 this older generation

00:51:52.160 of conservatism,

00:51:53.580 it's absolutely led

00:51:54.820 to an atrophy.

00:51:56.020 They aren't actually

00:51:56.820 doing anything right-wing

00:51:58.360 or conservative

00:51:58.980 or traditional anymore.

00:52:00.220 They're just going along

00:52:01.180 with whatever's convenient,

00:52:02.260 whatever's expedient,

00:52:03.180 whatever the world likes,

00:52:04.480 while branding it conservative.

00:52:05.920 And that's definitely

00:52:06.760 the mindset that has let

00:52:08.620 all of us keep sliding

00:52:10.040 ever faster leftward.

00:52:11.400 Right.

00:52:12.140 If I am the conservative edge,

00:52:13.740 if I'm the conservative gatekeeper,

00:52:15.220 then whatever I say,

00:52:16.360 therefore,

00:52:16.640 is the most conservative thing.

00:52:18.960 There can't be any way

00:52:20.380 in which I have fared.

00:52:21.880 Exactly.

00:52:23.200 Cripper Weirdo says,

00:52:23.960 Big Eva just wants

00:52:25.080 a secular culture senpai

00:52:27.420 to notice them

00:52:28.300 and say they're one

00:52:29.520 of the good ones,

00:52:30.200 sad, pathetic,

00:52:31.340 and non-heterosexual.

00:52:33.700 Yeah, unfortunately,

00:52:34.420 that is so often the case.

00:52:36.240 They're really just looking

00:52:36.980 for that pat on the head.

00:52:38.260 They really just want to know

00:52:39.360 that they're one

00:52:40.340 of the good ones.

00:52:41.560 It's really interesting

00:52:42.680 that over and over again,

00:52:44.400 we see, again,

00:52:45.420 the church leadership

00:52:46.600 go ahead

00:52:48.300 and try to sneak

00:52:50.620 this stuff in.

00:52:52.140 David French,

00:52:52.940 obviously,

00:52:53.760 was going to be at,

00:52:56.080 I don't know why

00:52:56.860 the denomination's name

00:52:57.840 is suddenly escaping me.

00:52:59.140 The PCA,

00:52:59.960 the Presbyterian Church of America.

00:53:01.640 Yeah, the Presbyterian,

00:53:02.760 their big conference here.

00:53:05.520 And then they got

00:53:07.040 the blowback

00:53:07.580 that they got

00:53:08.200 from their crowd.

00:53:09.100 Again, it's the leadership

00:53:10.120 versus the rest

00:53:14.200 of the congregation

00:53:15.720 that really does not want this.

00:53:17.240 They do not want this.

00:53:18.140 That's why they're in

00:53:19.180 the places they're in

00:53:20.460 because they want to see

00:53:21.440 someone who's willing

00:53:22.140 to push back

00:53:22.740 against this stuff.

00:53:23.980 But unfortunately,

00:53:24.820 we just see

00:53:25.360 the continued attempt

00:53:26.540 to subvert

00:53:27.140 by people who should be

00:53:28.800 leading and protecting

00:53:29.940 these denominations

00:53:31.580 from exactly that type

00:53:32.900 of subversion.

00:53:34.420 Prince of Parma

00:53:35.700 says,

00:53:36.100 support.

00:53:36.720 Thank you very much,

00:53:37.540 man.

00:53:37.720 Appreciate it.

00:53:39.440 Let's see here.

00:53:40.440 We've got

00:53:41.640 Paladin YYZ

00:53:44.020 says,

00:53:44.380 somebody once said

00:53:45.240 something about

00:53:45.760 hollowing out

00:53:46.300 the institutions

00:53:46.940 and a skin suit.

00:53:48.620 Thank God

00:53:49.020 I no longer

00:53:49.660 engage with politics

00:53:51.000 looking for protection,

00:53:52.760 judges looking for justice,

00:53:54.180 or doctors

00:53:55.140 looking for health.

00:53:56.980 Unfortunately,

00:53:57.720 yeah,

00:53:57.980 we just see this

00:53:58.720 over and over again,

00:53:59.560 this drive

00:54:00.100 to go ahead

00:54:01.700 and hollow out

00:54:02.340 these organizations

00:54:03.240 but use

00:54:04.320 their credit

00:54:05.440 as their standing

00:54:07.660 as something

00:54:08.280 as currency

00:54:09.320 to go ahead

00:54:10.040 and advance

00:54:10.880 an agenda.

00:54:11.620 As Ryan said,

00:54:12.760 so often we have

00:54:13.620 these guys

00:54:14.040 who are using

00:54:15.080 the reputation

00:54:15.900 of conservatism,

00:54:17.520 the idea that people

00:54:18.880 are here for that

00:54:19.780 conservatism

00:54:20.460 to go ahead

00:54:21.400 and run cover

00:54:22.220 for the subversion

00:54:23.920 that they're bringing

00:54:24.520 to the table

00:54:25.620 while pretending

00:54:27.160 that they're

00:54:27.700 the most far-right,

00:54:29.300 I guess,

00:54:29.760 or conservative

00:54:30.500 that one can be

00:54:31.460 in any given

00:54:32.520 denomination.

00:54:34.440 Paladin also says,

00:54:35.640 good to see you,

00:54:36.600 Ryan.

00:54:37.200 Just asking about you

00:54:38.320 in the OGC chat.

00:54:40.340 I heard you're doing well.

00:54:43.260 And then,

00:54:43.880 finally,

00:54:44.260 we have Weber Math Plus

00:54:46.700 says,

00:54:47.120 bum that Ryan

00:54:47.680 is going through this.

00:54:48.600 I'm praying for him.

00:54:49.960 Thanks for having him on.

00:54:51.660 Absolutely.

00:54:52.480 And again,

00:54:52.940 of course,

00:54:53.320 I'm sure

00:54:53.740 I feel comfortable

00:54:55.600 speaking for Ryan

00:54:56.420 saying that he appreciates

00:54:57.460 your prayers

00:54:58.600 and obviously

00:55:00.060 that is a critical thing

00:55:01.660 in this moment

00:55:02.340 where he is,

00:55:03.460 you know,

00:55:04.340 he's facing a lot of

00:55:05.680 moral and spiritual challenges

00:55:07.400 in this moment

00:55:08.740 and I think that

00:55:10.360 your prayers are

00:55:11.120 incredibly helpful.

00:55:12.740 All right,

00:55:12.980 guys,

00:55:13.280 we're going to go ahead

00:55:14.100 and wrap this up.

00:55:16.680 If it's your first time

00:55:17.880 on this channel,

00:55:19.320 please go ahead

00:55:19.920 and subscribe

00:55:20.440 to the YouTube channel.

00:55:22.200 Make sure you go ahead

00:55:23.140 and click the notification,

00:55:25.180 the bell,

00:55:25.600 everything so that

00:55:26.300 you can catch

00:55:26.800 these streams

00:55:27.620 when they go live.

00:55:28.920 If you'd like to get

00:55:29.360 these broadcasts

00:55:30.060 as podcasts,

00:55:31.180 make sure you go ahead

00:55:31.940 and subscribe to the YouTube

00:55:33.260 or go ahead

00:55:34.000 and subscribe to the podcast

00:55:35.520 on your favorite podcast platform,

00:55:37.500 The Orr McIntyre Show,

00:55:38.980 Apple,

00:55:39.420 Spotify,

00:55:39.980 all of those places.

00:55:41.580 If you haven't

00:55:42.360 subscribed to

00:55:43.260 Ryan's stuff,

00:55:44.540 make sure that you do that.

00:55:45.560 You can check out

00:55:46.240 all of his work

00:55:47.640 and the evidence

00:55:48.360 that he's gone ahead

00:55:49.260 and compiled

00:55:50.280 so you're more familiar

00:55:51.300 with this situation.

00:55:52.600 And, of course,

00:55:53.940 we'll both be

00:55:54.740 at the OGC conference.

00:55:56.260 I've had a lot of people

00:55:56.860 asking me

00:55:57.580 about signed copies

00:55:59.600 of the book.

00:56:00.660 Well, the best place

00:56:01.300 to get your book signed

00:56:02.460 is there.

00:56:03.300 I'll be there.

00:56:04.100 I'll be giving a talk.

00:56:05.800 I'll have books

00:56:06.780 for people

00:56:07.220 who haven't bought it yet

00:56:08.080 and I'll, of course,

00:56:08.760 be more than happy

00:56:09.360 to sign any copies there.

00:56:11.260 You'll see guys

00:56:12.340 like Ryan and others,

00:56:13.940 some of your favorites,

00:56:15.460 giving speeches

00:56:17.080 or just being around

00:56:19.040 and being able

00:56:19.860 to talk, meet up.

00:56:20.660 It's a great time

00:56:21.400 to network.

00:56:22.480 It's a great time

00:56:23.120 to learn more

00:56:23.920 about organizations

00:56:24.840 that are trying

00:56:25.780 to make a difference

00:56:26.480 in your community

00:56:27.780 for those of you

00:56:28.480 who are always asking,

00:56:29.780 but what can I do?

00:56:30.600 What can I do?

00:56:31.400 All we do is talk

00:56:32.540 on these things.

00:56:33.580 What can I do?

00:56:34.580 This is ground zero.

00:56:36.040 This is where

00:56:36.460 the rubber meets the road.

00:56:38.040 So if you would like

00:56:38.700 to be involved with that,

00:56:39.820 like Ryan said,

00:56:40.420 there are a few

00:56:41.460 more tickets left,

00:56:42.220 but they are vanishing quickly.

00:56:43.720 So make sure

00:56:44.220 that you go ahead

00:56:44.700 and take an opportunity

00:56:45.920 to plug in

00:56:46.700 and get involved.

00:56:47.920 All right, guys.

00:56:48.540 Thank you everyone

00:56:49.560 for watching.

00:56:50.720 It's been great

00:56:51.300 to talk to you.

00:56:52.400 Please pray for Ryan.

00:56:53.640 I'm sure he appreciates it.

00:56:55.120 And as always, guys,

00:56:56.180 we will talk to you

00:56:57.100 next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - May 24, 2024

Are Conservative Denominations Enforcing Leftist Cancel Culture？｜ Guest： Ryan Turnipseed ｜ 5⧸24⧸24

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