The Auron MacIntyre Show - November 15, 2023


Ben Shapiro Calls Candace Owens Disgraceful ｜ 11⧸15⧸23


Episode Stats


Length

14 minutes

Words per minute

175.59624

Word count

2,599

Sentence count

182

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Hate speech

17

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Ben Shapiro of The Daily Wire and Jeremy Boring of The Weekly Standard joins me in this episode to talk about the ongoing conflict between the old guard and the new guard in the left wing of the political spectrum, and why it s important to have multiple voices on a network like the Daily Wire.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
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00:00:30.000 All right, guys.
00:00:37.880 So on Monday, I was talking to you about the ongoing leftist civil war
00:00:42.580 that is occurring due to the conflict in Gaza.
00:00:45.680 You now have two distinct factions inside the left-wing movement.
00:00:49.340 You have the more woke, radical, progressive version of leftism.
00:00:53.900 And they are obviously pushing a decolonization narrative
00:00:58.340 in support of the Palestinians.
00:01:00.940 They are viewing this whole thing through the oppressor-oppressed lens,
00:01:04.400 saying the Israelis are the oppressors,
00:01:06.640 and the Palestinians are the oppressed. 0.90
00:01:08.740 And they say this is the way that we should understand this conflict.
00:01:11.540 And then you have the more established, liberal version of the left-wing movement.
00:01:16.180 And they are continuing their traditional support for the state of Israel.
00:01:20.500 And this is creating a really interesting old guard, new guard dynamic inside that movement,
00:01:26.780 an interesting rift between kind of the new and the old on that side.
00:01:30.700 However, what I didn't see coming was that we would see another version of this dynamic
00:01:35.500 play out in another area of the political spectrum.
00:01:38.720 Now, recently, video has surfaced of Ben Shapiro of The Daily Wire
00:01:43.560 talking about one of the hosts on his network, Candace Owens,
00:01:47.280 and he repeatedly calls her disgraceful.
00:01:49.900 Let's watch that real quick.
00:01:51.320 Yes.
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00:02:36.820 So we see here Shapiro repeatedly call Owens disgraceful.
00:02:53.800 He doesn't really mince words.
00:02:55.640 Now, you have to understand, when there are networks like this,
00:02:59.340 there's going to be disagreement.
00:03:00.920 I mean, that's kind of the whole point.
00:03:02.680 When you have multiple hosts, there's going to be multiple viewpoints,
00:03:05.380 and they're not always going to be in sync.
00:03:06.840 And, of course, that's a good thing.
00:03:08.220 That's what you want, right?
00:03:09.500 It would be extremely boring if you had a news network
00:03:13.320 where every single host, every single columnist had exactly the same view.
00:03:17.840 If you had this one unified take on every headline, on every policy decision,
00:03:23.720 on every ideological point,
00:03:25.640 then there would be really no reason to have multiple people on the network.
00:03:29.120 You could just have one guy march out, give the opinion in the network,
00:03:32.420 and that would be it.
00:03:33.460 And so when you have a network, you're going to have multiple personalities,
00:03:36.660 and at some point those personalities are going to disagree.
00:03:39.460 They might even clash.
00:03:40.600 And that's not necessarily a bad thing.
00:03:42.820 Even when you have a network that is supposed to be somewhat ideologically aligned, right?
00:03:46.680 Daily Wire is a conservative news network.
00:03:49.620 And so, in general, the people there have a similar vision
00:03:52.700 about kind of where America should be going and what it looks like,
00:03:56.380 maybe some shared values.
00:03:58.160 But, again, you don't want lockstep uniformity.
00:04:00.300 That's boring.
00:04:00.940 That defeats the whole purpose of having a network.
00:04:03.640 I work for a conservative news network,
00:04:05.620 and I think it's great that there are multiple voices that are heard.
00:04:09.780 One of the reasons I'm with them is I have never run into a scenario
00:04:12.620 where I'm not able to voice my opinion,
00:04:14.560 even if it's different from some of the other hosts on the network.
00:04:18.020 I think that's healthy.
00:04:19.120 That's a good dynamic for any of these organizations.
00:04:22.460 However, this is really important because Ben Shapiro is not just some host on the Daily Wire.
00:04:28.220 He is the founding guy of the Daily Wire, along with Jeremy Boring.
00:04:32.460 He's arguably the biggest host on the Daily Wire,
00:04:34.860 and he clearly has a good amount of editorial control
00:04:37.660 when it comes to the voice that Daily Wire is trying to project as a network.
00:04:42.180 So when he comes out and directly attacks basically what is one of his employees,
00:04:47.160 that's a pretty big deal.
00:04:48.840 Now, you can understand why Ben is passionate about this issue.
00:04:53.060 He is himself Jewish.
00:04:54.600 He probably has a large amount of family or friends directly involved
00:04:58.480 or possibly in danger in this scenario.
00:05:01.180 You can understand his passion.
00:05:02.900 Sometimes it feels like he gets pretty heated on this stuff,
00:05:06.180 but you get where he's coming from.
00:05:07.900 That makes some sense.
00:05:09.280 But what you have here is that kind of in this scenario with that passion and with this audience,
00:05:15.360 he seems willing to go directly after Owens and call her motives into question.
00:05:19.540 That's the really interesting thing.
00:05:21.260 He repeatedly calls her disgraceful,
00:05:23.580 but he also says that there's faux sophistication
00:05:26.260 and that everyone can see the moves that she's making. 0.89
00:05:29.380 And that implies what she's doing is somehow premeditated or planned or disingenuous,
00:05:35.020 that it's not really her position or that it's calculated to get her something out of this.
00:05:40.440 And that's a really interesting thing for him to say.
00:05:42.580 I mean, looking at what Owens has said, is there really anything that's super objectionable?
00:05:47.840 I haven't seen everything she said on the issue, but from what I can tell,
00:05:51.600 it doesn't seem like that's the case.
00:05:53.640 She really just seems to be coming at this from a more neutral position.
00:05:57.640 She says, I want to be America first.
00:06:00.140 I'm an American.
00:06:00.900 She looks at the scenario from what I can tell, she hasn't said anything like,
00:06:05.000 you know, I support this or what happened,
00:06:06.860 or I think that Israel shouldn't be able to defend itself 0.64
00:06:10.340 or questioning Israel's right to, to exist or any of that stuff.
00:06:13.940 It seems like she's generally said, okay, this is terrible,
00:06:16.660 but is this America's conflict?
00:06:19.240 Is this America's problem?
00:06:21.880 And it seems like for Ben, the answer is yes.
00:06:24.760 And if you say no, then you're in some pretty serious trouble with him.
00:06:28.860 And I don't think that's a really healthy thing to do for the conservative movement.
00:06:32.720 Look, there's a lot of people like myself, like Tucker Carlson,
00:06:36.720 and it seems to some extent like Candace Owens,
00:06:39.160 who have said what happened was terrible.
00:06:42.240 Hamas was evil for doing what they did.
00:06:44.660 Israel has the right to defend themselves.
00:06:46.780 They have a right to take action in this scenario.
00:06:48.760 However, as an American, I think this is Israel's problem. 0.95
00:06:52.980 I wish them the best in what they do.
00:06:55.800 I hope the best for them.
00:06:56.900 However, this is not our issue.
00:06:59.640 And I think it's important to say that.
00:07:01.560 A lot of people say, oh, no, if you voice any kind of concern
00:07:05.600 about the next steps that might be taken, then you're anti-Israel, I think, or anti-Jewish.
00:07:10.820 And I think that's ridiculous.
00:07:12.080 When you look at what's happening,
00:07:14.320 what happened directly after the beginning of this conflict,
00:07:17.480 you can see how desperately many people wanted to involve the United States
00:07:22.280 in the ongoings of this Middle Eastern conflict.
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00:08:33.560 You had the Republicans immediately call for billions and billions of dollars in spending to Israel,
00:08:41.240 a country that does not need American tax dollars.
00:08:44.500 It's a wealthy, first world nation that is very sophisticated, both technologically and militarily.
00:08:51.100 They are very capable of defending themselves.
00:08:54.220 And apparently they need to be, when you look at what happened, what Hamas did. 0.84
00:08:59.380 But the point is, they don't need American money.
00:09:01.780 That move was entirely symbolic.
00:09:04.640 Just handing someone $15 billion when your country is in a number of very serious crises,
00:09:11.640 just so you can signal your political bona fides is a terrible idea.
00:09:17.340 That's a terrible move.
00:09:18.320 It makes no sense for people who are supposed to be America first, 1.00
00:09:22.400 who are supposed to be prioritizing the United States and the well-being of its people
00:09:26.460 before the well-being of other nations.
00:09:28.620 And I don't think it's terrible or criminal.
00:09:31.120 I don't think it's disgraceful to express that viewpoint.
00:09:35.320 And again, you can see how people were very interested in immediately involving the United
00:09:40.060 States and kind of the fallout of what would happen here.
00:09:43.240 There was just an article run in the Wall Street Journal authored by two people,
00:09:47.960 one who was a former Mossad director and one who was an Israeli ambassador to the United Nations.
00:09:54.040 And it said, look, the West needs to be willing to take in Gazan refugees.
00:09:59.420 The West, because so many of these people have been displaced by the violence,
00:10:02.860 they need to be allowing Palestinian refugees into their countries.
00:10:07.740 Now, that is patently insane.
00:10:10.140 Look, if Israel does not want to have Palestinians in their own country, 0.99
00:10:15.220 why would these people belong in any Western country, right?
00:10:18.940 That's absolutely ridiculous.
00:10:21.080 The West already has huge problems, especially when it comes to Europe with Muslim migration 1.00
00:10:26.100 into those countries, the way it has transformed those countries, that has transformed their
00:10:30.700 culture, has transformed their way of life.
00:10:33.000 There's large blocks of Muslim immigrants who are not assimilating into their culture.
00:10:38.540 And the United States certainly does not need potentially terrorist sympathizing immigrants 0.76
00:10:43.960 inside the United States.
00:10:45.720 Again, if they don't belong in Israel, then they certainly don't belong in European nations 0.69
00:10:52.340 or America.
00:10:53.940 It just makes no sense.
00:10:55.080 But this is the kind of stuff that many people, myself included, were worried about when there
00:10:59.460 was this immediate rush to saying anything, everything.
00:11:02.820 We have to support Israel in every single way.
00:11:04.780 Again, Israel has a right to exist.
00:11:06.900 They are a nation.
00:11:07.820 And just like any other nation, they can exist to the extent that they can defend themselves.
00:11:12.740 I know that sounds harsh, but that's just true. 1.00
00:11:14.780 That's the nature of geopolitics.
00:11:17.380 If you're a nation, your first job is your ability to maintain your territorial integrity
00:11:22.200 and to defend the people of your nation against harm.
00:11:25.520 Israel seems to understand that, and they're working very hard to do exactly that.
00:11:29.960 And there's no reason why European nations or the United States shouldn't have exactly
00:11:35.160 the same goal.
00:11:36.440 And that means not allowing people into their nation that Israel wouldn't allow into their 1.00
00:11:41.800 nation.
00:11:42.140 It simply doesn't make any sense from a preservation standpoint.
00:11:46.700 There's no reason to go out and signal yourself as supporting things that are going to hurt
00:11:51.600 your country, even though something terrible happened to another country.
00:11:56.420 And I think once again, we see a generational split on the right when it comes to this.
00:12:02.500 You have the old guard of the right, the more neoconservative version of the right.
00:12:06.840 And they're immediately gung-ho.
00:12:09.140 Let's get in there.
00:12:10.220 We have to defend Israel at any cost. 0.74
00:12:12.360 We have to give them money.
00:12:13.700 Maybe we have to accept refugees. 1.00
00:12:15.660 We don't know.
00:12:16.720 But whatever they need, whatever's going on, we have to immediately evolve ourselves.
00:12:20.700 We have people like Nikki Haley saying that the United States wouldn't exist without Israel.
00:12:25.980 Ridiculous stuff like that.
00:12:27.240 And there's just, you can feel how stale and old that is and how much it's not supported
00:12:32.320 kind of by the newer crop of the right, the newer, younger conservative crowd.
00:12:39.020 Again, a lot of people who have sympathy for Israel, a lot of people who agree with its 0.61
00:12:43.000 right to exist and its right to defend itself.
00:12:45.680 But they just don't want to see American troops, American tax dollars.
00:12:49.060 They don't want to see America in general involving itself unnecessarily with a foreign 1.00
00:12:55.840 conflict.
00:12:56.700 Again, if it was directly in the interest of the United States, that might be a question
00:13:01.720 that you want to ask.
00:13:02.880 Or if there was even some dynamic where Israel couldn't afford or it was fighting a vastly
00:13:08.040 superior enemy, I still don't think I would probably support that.
00:13:11.600 But at least then there would be an argument as to why the United States would need to ship
00:13:15.200 them billions of dollars and why it would need to consider, you know, moving carrier
00:13:19.920 groups and accepting refugees and all this stuff.
00:13:23.000 At least there would be some kind of dynamic where that would make sense.
00:13:26.280 But this doesn't make any sense at all.
00:13:27.940 I don't think it makes Candace Owens disgraceful or conniving or disingenuous for simply saying,
00:13:33.780 I think we should put America first.
00:13:35.900 I think America's interest should be forefront.
00:13:38.660 And I think it's totally reasonable for us to ask questions about U.S. involvement in foreign
00:13:44.240 conflicts before we just go diving in head first.
00:13:47.480 I don't think it's really a good thing to have this civil war between conservatives as
00:13:53.320 well.
00:13:53.680 I don't think that needs to exist.
00:13:55.060 I think there's a very common sense position that everyone should be able to reach where
00:13:59.660 Israel is a sovereign nation with the right to defend its territorial integrity.
00:14:04.620 But it is a sovereign nation and the United States simply does not need to involve itself
00:14:08.680 directly in any kind of aid or conflict or refugee resettlement.
00:14:13.480 But again, if refugees are too dangerous or violent or they wouldn't fit in culturally 1.00
00:14:20.440 in Israel, they certainly aren't going to fit in in Alabama or in Germany. 0.83
00:14:25.940 There's just no reason for them to relocate, be relocated there.
00:14:30.220 So I don't know, guys.
00:14:31.400 You can tell me what you think below.
00:14:33.260 I think it wasn't in good form.
00:14:35.200 I think there should be the allowance for differences inside kind of the conservative
00:14:39.900 commentariat, the right wing.
00:14:41.580 You should be able to think about this in different ways, express those opinions.
00:14:45.060 But thank you for watching, guys.
00:14:46.140 And as always, I'll talk to you next time.