The Auron MacIntyre Show - Biden Debate Disaster ｜ Guest： Kevin Dolan ｜ 7⧸1⧸2024

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00:00:30.260 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:32.260 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:34.280 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:38.660 So there are some weeks where nothing happens.

00:00:41.100 You really gotta grind out that content, squeeze every last drop out of the news.

00:00:46.280 But in the last couple days, pretty much everything has happened.

00:00:49.500 It's been absolutely insane.

00:00:51.620 I was in Dallas doing the live coverage of the debate for The Blaze.

00:00:56.060 But since the disastrous Joe Biden debate, there has been all kinds of speculation on whether he's going to be sticking around.

00:01:03.780 Can they replace him?

00:01:05.040 Do they want to replace him?

00:01:06.500 Who would they replace him with?

00:01:07.960 And of course, we've also had a bevy of different Supreme Court decisions, including key decisions on the Chevron deference and on Donald Trump's immunity during his time in office.

00:01:23.000 We're going to get to all that, guys.

00:01:24.980 He's commenting on this today with me is one of the best follows on Twitter.

00:01:29.420 He's also the leader of Exit.

00:01:31.480 Kevin Dolan, thanks for joining me, man.

00:01:33.500 Great to be here, man.

00:01:34.260 Thanks.

00:01:35.200 Absolutely.

00:01:35.620 He had one of the best takes, I thought, when it came to the process of Joe Biden, what the administration or rather the wider regime might be thinking.

00:01:44.120 So I want to have him on to comment on that as well.

00:01:46.940 We're going to get to all of that.

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00:03:11.920 All right, Kevin, so the nothing ever happened bros are absolutely out of sorts, devastating L for them.

00:03:19.400 They got to hold it real tight.

00:03:21.080 Let's start with, I guess, the biggest news, which was the debate.

00:03:24.800 We'll get into all the will they, won't they stuff here in a second.

00:03:28.640 But what was your immediate response to the debate?

00:03:31.680 I mean, I knew it could be bad for Joe Biden, but this was a whole nother realm of bad, right?

00:03:37.760 Well, I actually, I had seen him do similar comparable things so often in public and nobody cared that like, I mean, the real sort of the real message, the real show is the post game, which is when CNN and MSNBC and everybody tells you what to think about it.

00:04:02.880 Because like, that's, that's the real government that like, that's the messaging that matters.

00:04:07.700 And, um, so when I saw them be like uniformly, like responding to, you know, what's been obvious to everybody else for years, uh, I was like, oh, uh, there's some Kremlinology is happening here.

00:04:24.380 There's something, some, some, some backroom decision has been made and we've all decided at once to acknowledge this situation.

00:04:31.240 Um, and, and that got me thinking about, you know, uh, they, they, they planned this debate really early.

00:04:39.060 And, um, I, I, I suspect that there's, that there was an element of like, we need to, uh, we need to bring this to the forefront quickly so that we can try to do a hot swap.

00:04:53.720 And I don't think they're going to succeed at that.

00:04:56.220 And I think, I think this is, you're seeing sort of signs of the wheels falling off some desperation, uh, and, and I, I think some bad decision-making, but yeah, like, I mean, you know, there's no possible way they were surprised.

00:05:10.420 Right.

00:05:10.840 Like this was, this was like a below average performance, but it, it wasn't that different from any other time that he's just sort of like wandered off verbally in the middle of a, an address.

00:05:21.140 Uh, so that was my, that was my initial take, uh, which led, led to the write-up on, on, you know, what's, what's actually going on here because like there's, there's sort of, um, an intermediate, uh, step in someone's political awakening where they go, oh, uh, voting is fake.

00:05:41.040 And, and, and, and therefore, um, the government is this monolith that, uh, you know, has, has sort of long-term plans and a centralized structure and everybody's following orders.

00:05:55.060 And what you saw at the debate was much closer to, well, well, I mean, it was the reality, but it's, it's, it gives you a sense of the reality, which is that, uh, they are continually testing things and putting things out there and probing, not just for like the public, but also to like coordinate one another.

00:06:20.440 And, and, and they're all, they're all constantly looking around at each other.

00:06:24.620 Like, are we going to say anything?

00:06:25.880 Are we going to, are we going to mention this?

00:06:27.320 And this was like that preference cascade where everything snapped into place.

00:06:30.260 And they're like, okay, we're all going to talk about this now.

00:06:32.960 Yeah.

00:06:33.320 This is a very important thing for people to understand.

00:06:35.840 Cause like you said, we get into this moment where people start talking and they're like, oh, elites rule and democracy is fake.

00:06:42.560 And so therefore it's all this maniacal 5d chess game played by this grandmaster who's omnipotent, always perfect.

00:06:51.900 It's this monolithic action that you cannot possibly understand or anticipate.

00:06:57.600 And they're, and they're acting, they treat it as if they're suddenly there's this King who's a super genius, who's running the whole thing, but it's the revelation should be exactly the opposite.

00:07:08.820 Yes.

00:07:09.020 Unless there is a ruling class.

00:07:10.560 Yes.

00:07:10.840 The, the whole thing in front of us is fake to legitimize their rule.

00:07:14.820 But the fact that the ruling class is organized in a very specific way, which is this distributed oligarchical structure based entirely on information and prestige means that actually it can't specifically rule in the way that these people are thinking that it does not have this central node that, that then just, you know, sends out the orders to everyone.

00:07:37.480 And actually everyone is buying, it's the, it's, it's more of a pack of demons snarling and fighting each other and screaming at each other on this constant basis.

00:07:46.160 Because yeah, they're in charge there.

00:07:48.200 They have the levers, but none of them are actually like the central one acting and then disseminating the take that everyone should go ahead and put into place.

00:07:58.200 Right. And, and one of the things that's fascinating about this is you, you, you can see how people get the idea that it's coordinated because yeah, it was lockstep.

00:08:08.680 Like it was like CNN had like 12 different commentators and every single one of them was like, he's got to step down.

00:08:14.820 He's got to step down.

00:08:15.380 He's got to step down.

00:08:15.960 And they like, they had different, like the debate was very clearly bounded.

00:08:20.360 Like they were discussing like, like, yes, he should step down, but, and then they went, no, no, he should really step down.

00:08:26.440 But like everybody was on board with this really radical proposition that like the city.

00:08:31.960 And now, now there's a couple of things they didn't say, which is fascinating.

00:08:34.080 They didn't say he's not competent to be in office.

00:08:38.340 They treated it like he had flubbed or gaffed, like they, they treated it like he had, he had like prepared badly and screwed up the debate in some moral sense, rather than being like literally a, a dying man who doesn't know where he is or what he's doing.

00:08:57.060 Uh, that's, that's the first thing they didn't say was that he's not competent.

00:09:01.120 And the second thing they didn't say was who should replace him, uh, not even speculating, not even like, you know, these, these following people are, are maybe sort of in line.

00:09:12.820 Uh, it was radio silence on that, which is like, I mean, that's where everybody's mind goes as soon as you broach that topic, if he should step down.

00:09:20.420 Um, and so like, there's evidence of, yeah, they've all, they've all received some talking points, right?

00:09:27.880 Like, like they're not, uh, it's not total anarchy, right?

00:09:32.680 Um, but like they were supposed to say, he's stepping down.

00:09:38.300 They weren't supposed to preempt any 25th amendment conversation because that sort of puts Kamala Harris in the chair. 1.00

00:09:44.120 Um, and they weren't supposed to suggest Gavin Newsom or suggest Michelle Obama or anything like it was very, very tightly controlled in that sense.

00:09:53.080 Um, but the other element of this that is very clearly out of their control is like, there, there is a, not quite like brain dead, but like completely absent figurehead ruling, you know, the, the, the biggest and most powerful country in the world.

00:10:18.260 And the, the sitting regime, which is supposed to be holding all the cards wants to dislodge him and can't, which that is like fascinating to me because he, he's, he's this feeble old man.

00:10:32.940 You like, if you're, if you have this conspiratorial vision of how the state works, you would think that he would be like the easiest guy in the world to remove. 0.73

00:10:41.340 Cause he's got all these scandals and he, he could just die.

00:10:45.080 And like, nobody would ask a ton of questions, but because of the distributed nature of this state, they are unable to get rid of him because to get rid of him and, and specifically who they would replace him with undermines all of these institutional and reputational structures that their power depends on.

00:11:06.220 Uh, and, and, and so I was, I was sort of using the debate as a way to say some things about like, you know, stop blackpilling, stop, stop talking about these people.

00:11:16.260 Like they're unbeatable, like, like there's no getting around their, you know, their sinister plan.

00:11:20.760 Like the, it, it's sort of, um, one of the things I've sort of started saying is, is the disease is in control.

00:11:28.860 These people are not in control, but, but sort of the, the, the, the, the palsy or the sclerosis that has infested the system that is very much in control, but these people are not.

00:11:40.300 And like, they're not even, they're not even in a sense, the enemy because their power is waning.

00:11:46.200 Like they're just having trouble keeping the wheels on in a really basic sense.

00:11:50.440 And so the thing to do is not to like butt up against them and fight them.

00:11:56.420 The thing is to prepare for what comes after.

00:11:59.140 Yeah.

00:11:59.580 One of Yarvin's best essays is the one where he talks about, uh, uh, kind of the, the narrative is in charge.

00:12:07.080 Like it looks, looks like someone's at the helm, but they only get to stand at the wheel.

00:12:11.200 They don't actually get to, to drive the, the boat.

00:12:14.360 And it's a nice gig if you can get it, but it, you know, no individual person, why they may be able to affect things one direction or another actually gets to form the entire, uh, kind of ruling narrative.

00:12:25.660 And because everybody's subject to the narrative, there's all these weird moments where people are jockeying for power inside, you know, that kind of, uh, network.

00:12:34.480 Like you can see the moves, you can see the factions kind of strike at each other, you know, shifting under the skin of the entire organism.

00:12:41.520 But never, none of them are actually, you know, driving the entire thing.

00:12:45.620 I do want to ask you though, the way that this was set up, you said it was, you know, set up early because they're trying to dislodge him.

00:12:54.860 But at the same time, they put him in this scenario where basically CNN creates the perfect debate.

00:13:03.220 If Biden was going to be able to do it, right?

00:13:05.240 Like if there was any debate in which Biden could have made it through, this would have been the one.

00:13:10.260 And you're right, I think that ultimately there's nothing new on display on stage.

00:13:14.860 It's just a concentrated version of all the things we've seen.

00:13:18.620 It's, it's a lot of, you know, there's no revelations.

00:13:21.440 Anyone who's been paying attention over the last, you know, a couple of years recognizes all of these faces, all of these gaffes, all of the, you know, he, he can't shuffle off stage.

00:13:30.660 Well, we've seen that a million times.

00:13:31.940 He can't remember things about his son.

00:13:33.800 We already knew that, right?

00:13:34.980 But it's, it's just the, the concentration of them all, like you said, seem to flip this preference cascade.

00:13:41.520 Do you, a lot of people speculated that this was a hit on Biden.

00:13:45.160 Okay.

00:13:45.380 We're, we're going to put him in this scenario.

00:13:47.480 So it's very clear that he has to be removed.

00:13:49.880 Or do you think this was more of a trial balloon of like, okay, here's a faction.

00:13:54.200 The Biden faction wants to be in charge.

00:13:56.820 We'll put them in this best case scenario.

00:13:59.160 If they can't prove themselves here, then, you know, then we kind of knock them off the pedestal.

00:14:04.780 Like, do you have any speculation on kind of what, what you think might've been involved there?

00:14:09.040 Well, I think, I think one of the insights from, by the way, I'm, I'm about two thirds of the way through the total state.

00:14:15.100 Great read.

00:14:15.720 Go, go buy it.

00:14:16.560 Um, but, uh, one of the insights, uh, that you sort of glean from your various sources in that book is that the decision-making of, of the regime, quote unquote, is, uh, is so distributed that like there are multiple things happening simultaneously.

00:14:35.840 And you're, and, and, and looking at the way they behave, uh, doesn't make sense according to any one person's sort of motive or, or objective.

00:14:47.820 Like, I, I do think that it was set up early, uh, by certain constituencies so that there was this optionality.

00:14:55.660 I also think that there were constituencies within CNN, within the Biden white house that demanded that the terms of the debate be set up such that he could perform well, if he was going to perform well, I'm sure they gave him the best cocktail they possibly could have.

00:15:10.920 Like there's multiple actors and there's game theoretic things happening here.

00:15:16.160 Um, and so, uh, like, yes, I, I think it's both.

00:15:22.080 I, I think probably there are, uh, and, and I, and I don't necessarily even think that it's like Biden loyalists and like Obama people and Hillary people necessarily.

00:15:35.900 I think if, if anything, there's probably been some chatter about like, is Biden a viable candidate?

00:15:45.520 Like, is he like, can he win at all?

00:15:48.020 Like, I think, I think basically everybody in the regime, if, if, if Biden could just like keep the drool off his chin, almost all of them would say, let's line up behind him.

00:15:59.680 Let, you know, let's just keep the administrative state running behind this figurehead.

00:16:05.180 He does like, you know, he isn't Trump and that's a huge perk.

00:16:09.040 And like, we've all decided this is the guy.

00:16:10.920 And so let's not switch horses midstream.

00:16:13.260 And I think the, the internal debate wasn't like, oh, we want to run a coup against Biden so that this other person can take control.

00:16:23.900 It was more like, this is no longer workable.

00:16:27.640 And the longer we wait, the worse it gets and the harder it is to do anything about it.

00:16:32.320 So let's go ahead and, and, uh, you know, push him out.

00:16:37.480 And I'm sure they've been trying, I mean, the word on the street, right, is, is that they've been trying to dislodge him politely, covertly through back channels for a while, maybe for like his entire administration.

00:16:50.440 Yeah.

00:16:50.500 We've actually been seeing these stories for years popping up in the press.

00:16:53.800 Yeah.

00:16:54.240 And they haven't been able to.

00:16:55.480 And so I think this was to an extent.

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00:17:30.520 Both, like, prepared in the sense that, like, yeah, they scheduled ahead of time, but also opportunistic in the sense that I am sure during the debate, a lot of people were making phone calls being like, now's the time.

00:17:45.000 You know, everybody get your talking points ready.

00:17:47.560 We're all going to say the same thing.

00:17:48.620 It's time for him to go.

00:17:50.000 But at the same time, like, Vogue magazine had the profile on Jill Biden.

00:17:54.080 And what a hero she is for, like, for working.

00:17:57.540 Definitely not running the country.

00:17:59.400 Yeah.

00:17:59.720 Yeah.

00:18:00.120 Like, so, so there's clearly even now, you know, sort of some factionalism reasserting itself.

00:18:06.960 But that, like, that's, it's hard to see how that goes anywhere.

00:18:12.600 I'm interested, you know, of course, we have the phrase Byzantine, and you mentioned criminology.

00:18:19.060 I wonder if we're eventually going to get some kind of American, you know, equivalent of this. 0.53

00:18:25.220 Like, in a couple hundred years from now, whenever a government is completely geriatric and you can't figure out where power is located, you go ahead and call it an Americanism or something.

00:18:35.260 Oh, man.

00:18:35.680 I hope not.

00:18:36.520 Yeah.

00:18:36.980 It would be a terrible legacy for our beloved country.

00:18:40.280 But anyway, yeah, I think you're right.

00:18:42.780 You know, I said this at the end of my coverage with the blaze, but I think it bears repeating.

00:18:47.060 You know, we assume, again, like you said, that a lot of this is well planned out in advance, that there's a high level of coordination, that really there's a top-down structure to this.

00:18:58.220 But most of this is just processes coming to their eventual conclusion.

00:19:04.020 And one of the processes that has been working itself out is that the managerial oligarchy wants a president that it can just operate like a puppet.

00:19:12.240 You know, not in the sense that we normally think of a president as kind of the collection of their advisors, but literally just like the most inoffensive stand-in possible with no will of their own that can be completely driven by forces from behind the scenes but absorb all of the heat.

00:19:27.520 Like, that's the ideal leader for the total state, even if they don't recognize it, even if they wouldn't actively pursue it.

00:19:34.860 Kind of the selective pressures take you towards a Joe Biden.

00:19:40.040 And so I think what we saw was the failure of an unintentional experiment in complete remote governance.

00:19:46.980 What if we just put up this guy who's literally senile, could not answer a question.

00:19:52.640 No one can – you can't even prosecute him for crimes because he would not be able to stand trial due to his cognitive impairment, according to prosecutors.

00:20:02.540 Like, this is how out-to-lunch this guy is.

00:20:06.180 Could we actually run the government through him for an extended amount of time?

00:20:11.200 I think what we kind of saw was the final collapse.

00:20:13.900 Like, even the people who ultimately are running a government that kind of prefers that are nervous about the actual that being done in practice.

00:20:23.460 So Weekend and Bernie's thing is a higher-wires act that they just were not able to tolerate anymore.

00:20:28.360 And eventually, like you said, we just saw that preference cascade kick over the factions that were holding Biden up at that moment.

00:20:35.720 Yeah, and it exposes, you know, again, one of the things you talk about in your book, I've got it on the brain, is that the Soviet system and the National Socialist system in Germany and liberalism were competing versions of managerialism.

00:20:55.720 And basically, the sort of killer app of liberalism was this system of propaganda control and manufacturing consent that allowed people to still feel like they were in charge.

00:21:10.180 And what you are seeing here is, because like Brezhnev and Andropov really could be Biden-esque.

00:21:20.900 They really could be completely incapacitated, and it really didn't make a lot of difference.

00:21:25.600 And we're also seeing it come out that like FDR and Woodrow Wilson were similarly incapacitated in a time when they could be more easily insulated from the public.

00:21:36.620 And I think what we are seeing is sort of the wind down of, like that killer app of the propaganda system and these load-bearing lies that allowed the Western liberal managerial system to sustain itself.

00:21:55.900 They're running aground because, yeah, there's those competing pressures.

00:22:02.020 It's, you know, you want somebody who is as empty and anodyne as possible, but eventually you get to a point where that person can't maintain the sort of propaganda image that's required to maintain the illusion.

00:22:14.700 And so, yeah, it's sort of those contradictions coming to a head this week.

00:22:21.800 All right, well, I do want to get to the actual speculation on can they replace him, who would they replace him with.

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00:23:37.960 All right, so you've already said that the regime is having a lot of difficulty dislodging Biden.

00:23:43.360 Now, I think the most convenient thing about really the post-debate discussion, like you said, nobody on MSNBC or CNN was actually talking about who would take over,

00:23:56.460 which is the very first thing everybody else, you know, we did on The Blaze, that Fox was doing.

00:24:01.240 Anybody else doing this coverage immediately was like, well, speculate, who else would go in there?

00:24:05.080 Who else would go in there?

00:24:05.920 Nobody on the left is doing this.

00:24:07.320 None of the liberals are doing this for a very particular reason.

00:24:10.800 But the most useful thing about that speculation is it kind of distracts people.

00:24:15.840 You know, who's going to get the rose during The Bachelor goes ahead and distracts people from the fact that actually we've had a fake president and then like he was installed in a fake election and like everything is fake.

00:24:28.740 Like we just kind of skip right over like that.

00:24:31.400 The fundamental governance of the United States has just been completely shattered and the illusion of it is destroyed.

00:24:36.980 And we go directly to like who wins the reality TV contest after.

00:24:41.600 So that's one function we can talk about.

00:24:44.980 But also you, I think, made a good point that ultimately it's very difficult.

00:24:50.280 There are still these realities about the Constitution and election law.

00:24:53.880 Again, we often look at the regime and the ruling class and we think they're in power so they can just do everything they want.

00:24:59.400 But actually, these phantoms that are still connected to the law do bind them in certain ways, like the difficulty of releasing the delegates, like Biden actually has to step down.

00:25:12.220 They can't just push him out of the way.

00:25:14.700 The money is tied to the campaign.

00:25:16.740 So Kamala Harris becomes the only person who can actually inherit all of the money that's been raised so far.

00:25:22.060 And there's a massive war chest.

00:25:23.240 Like these are all issues that make it very difficult for them to just, you know, pick Gavin Newsom up and say, you're the guy now.

00:25:31.420 Yeah, I mean, it's it's there's an extent to which constitutional government was always, you know, it's it's possible to be too cynical.

00:25:41.960 I think about that.

00:25:43.020 So there have been times in which people's rights have been respected sort of against the will of the powerful.

00:25:55.200 But I think it's important to recognize that those were like the power of constitutional governance was always sort of a religious precept.

00:26:02.900 It was sort of like something everybody believed in.

00:26:06.660 And if you if you if you violated it nakedly in the way that it's being violated in the last, you know, well, I mean, just increasingly over time, but certainly in the last eight years or so.

00:26:20.000 You would you would be ashamed and you would you would sort of lose status in some of these circles that that that you were that you were fraudulent, that you were treacherous.

00:26:31.000 And and and I think a lot of what has evaporated about like simultaneously, a couple of things are happening.

00:26:40.020 Number one, just our ability to communicate and therefore sort of see through some narrative is going way, way up.

00:26:50.280 And so like I tweeted earlier about Woodrow Wilson and FDR and how like they were incapacitated for periods of their presidency.

00:26:59.060 And it's like, to some extent, this this is actually getting better.

00:27:04.020 Like you are actually you actually have more access to information than you did, you know, in 1944.

00:27:11.360 Right.

00:27:13.200 Is it better information?

00:27:14.620 That's sort of a different question.

00:27:15.980 You have to search, you know, through a sort of rising tide of of slop. 0.99

00:27:21.080 But it is possible to know more about what's going on for the average person than it used to be.

00:27:27.360 And then simultaneously, as those narrative tools that everybody depended on are are becoming less effective and failing in real time.

00:27:40.860 The regime is losing because, frankly, like a lot of these people, if you were to sort of talk to them in the 90s, would have been essentially sincere liberals.

00:27:51.080 They would have been sincere believers that that America is a free country and that we do have these these basic rights that are that are guaranteed by the by the Constitution.

00:28:03.060 And they wouldn't they'd have sort of a fuzzy notion of what that meant, but they would really believe in it, even even the bad guys.

00:28:09.180 A lot of. And I think what is happening is.

00:28:15.240 As that system is increasingly incapable of sort of maintaining their power, they're saying, well, I'm not going to give up power.

00:28:24.480 So so I guess I don't believe in that.

00:28:26.920 And and so there's this collapse on both sides of the argument in in faith in that system.

00:28:33.580 And so it's like, you know, it's massively important that Elon Musk is in charge of Twitter right now because Elon Musk is basically a free speech, classical liberal ideologue.

00:28:46.100 And he's powerful enough to just instantiate that as like the rules of the road in this really important narrative space.

00:28:52.760 So so so like what is happening now is it is increasingly becoming a question of who what do you want to do and who wants to stop you?

00:29:06.680 Like that's that's what freedom means right now.

00:29:09.100 There's no the law means less and less, although it's been fascinating to see the Supreme Court decisions.

00:29:17.300 Yeah. And and like, you know, our guys, I think, are like treating that as if it were real, like that the Supreme Court has power.

00:29:27.100 And I think they're right. Like like it's it's fascinating the extent to which these.

00:29:34.220 It's not an all or nothing proposition. It's not binary.

00:29:37.160 It's it's it's not like the fact that power is distributed doesn't mean that nobody has power and nobody's will means anything like Clarence Thomas is a massively.

00:29:47.300 Important person. And just his personal opinion about things matters tremendously to to the functioning of the state because he occupies this important narrative position that they can't afford to undermine.

00:30:00.820 I think the best example you saw of this was Sotomayor talk in her in her dissent against the prosecution.

00:30:10.280 She said, I dissent in in fear for our democracy. Right.

00:30:14.580 But the fact is, like that in a like, you know, you can say, oh, yeah, the rules protect everybody.

00:30:21.180 But like in this sense, it's very clear, like.

00:30:25.120 The president needs to be immune from prosecution so that when Trump gets into office, he can't just nail, you know, Biden and everybody associates with to the wall.

00:30:33.760 And like so like these people and their determination to like say, hey, no, we're going to follow the rules like it actually ramifies to some real world situations.

00:30:44.980 Now, you know, obviously, Trump, if he decides to disregard that, here's what it is.

00:30:48.660 If Trump decides to disregard that, he's going to have to do it with guns.

00:30:53.200 Right. And that's what everybody's trying to avoid.

00:30:56.760 And that's the source of the the the narrative infrastructure and the sort of the sort of moralizing, like, you know, we're all classical liberals here.

00:31:08.320 The source of that power is these are people who don't actually want violence because it wouldn't be good for them financially.

00:31:15.120 And they're not necessarily very good at it.

00:31:17.780 And we don't want it like nobody wants violence.

00:31:20.400 And that's that's sort of why all of these sort of threadbare liberal narratives still have the power that they have.

00:31:29.460 There's this mistake that a lot of people make, you know, just like we talked about the well, once they realize that so much of this governance is fake, they just attribute everything to this monolithic power.

00:31:39.880 One of the mistakes that people make is when they discover a political theology, when they recognize that the shared narrative is what creates these things and that, you know, in many ways, like the mythos of the country is the only thing that holds these beliefs together.

00:31:56.280 What they immediately assume is that means you could just throw them in the trash and do whatever you want.

00:32:00.620 But actually, what you should conclude is the exact opposite, that these things are actually much more important than anything else.

00:32:07.320 Just like just the fact that they are a shared collective kind of myth of what the government means doesn't mean they're useless.

00:32:13.460 It actually means that they're hyper useful.

00:32:15.760 They are actually the most powerful things that exist in your society.

00:32:20.220 And so just recognizing them for what they are doesn't mean that you should suddenly just become like this postmodern.

00:32:26.500 Everything is thrown in the trash.

00:32:28.440 No, you should come exactly the opposite direction.

00:32:30.440 I recognize that these most sacred truths are actually the binding of your of your of your community, of your society, and that you can still call on their power.

00:32:41.600 You can still kind of summon them from the dead at moments.

00:32:44.520 They still create these as long as people are still living living under these illusions.

00:32:49.300 They still carry incredible weight.

00:32:51.720 But you mentioned a couple of those Supreme Court rulings, and we definitely need to dive in those with the time that we have left.

00:32:59.700 So before we get to the Supreme Court rulings, guys, let me tell you a little bit about ISI.

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00:33:07.080 They're actively undermining it, and we can't let them get away with it.

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00:33:13.800 The Intercollegiate Studies Institute is here to help.

00:33:16.600 ISI offers programs and opportunities for conservative students across the country.

00:33:21.240 ISI understands that conservatives and right-of-center students feel isolated on college campuses and that you're often fighting for your own reputation, dignity, and future.

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00:33:40.880 ISI offers many opportunities to jumpstart your career.

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00:34:27.400 That's ISI.org.

00:34:29.160 All right, Kevin.

00:34:31.200 So there are several major Supreme Court rulings that have come out all at once.

00:34:36.720 We're going to hit a couple of them.

00:34:39.020 You already mentioned the immunity one, but let's start with the administrative state.

00:34:45.480 So there's the Chevron deference case as in decided 1984 and basically, ironically, and basically what it does is it gives the executive agencies a large degree of latitude, almost complete control once the Congress has given the power over something.

00:35:08.360 So normally how the Constitution is supposed to work is that the Congress makes laws and all of these things are ruled or rather are enforced by the executive agencies.

00:35:20.600 But it's the Congress itself that actually decides what the law is going to be, how it's going to get applied.

00:35:25.980 What has happened with the Chevron deference is basically once the EPA or one of these committees is created, they can make very large amounts of rulings and there's really nothing you can do.

00:35:37.460 You can't really take it to the judges.

00:35:40.220 The Congress doesn't have a lot of input.

00:35:41.660 Once it's been placed in the hands of the experts, that's kind of over.

00:35:45.140 And, of course, this gives the administrative state an incredible amount of power because they are the experts.

00:35:50.780 They stay in charge after the presidents leave.

00:35:53.340 The politicians come.

00:35:54.700 The politicians go.

00:35:55.640 But the experts stay.

00:35:56.760 The bureaucrats stay.

00:35:58.140 They are the ones making the ruling.

00:35:59.500 They're creating a large amount of rulings and laws and regulations outside of the judicial system.

00:36:04.460 The case that shattered this was that I believe it was like a phishing charter.

00:36:10.300 There was some kind of phishing business and the governmental regulatory agency that was overseeing them was charging them like $700 a day for them to pay for their own regulation.

00:36:22.520 So it's not just that they had to adhere to the regulation.

00:36:25.760 They had to pay a constant fee for their own oversight every day.

00:36:29.820 They're funding the very agency that is crippling their business.

00:36:33.420 And this is kind of what struck down the Chevron deference here.

00:36:37.800 It gets overturned.

00:36:38.980 What are the implications of this for the administrative state?

00:36:43.520 Well, you know, so I'm not like a constitutional law expert, but I mean, like it's it is incredible.

00:36:49.660 The extent to which we have accepted.

00:36:54.560 The regulatory apparatus of the executive branch as just as long as as at least as long as I've been alive, that's that's been sort of standing law.

00:37:05.600 And, you know, the lion's share of things that actually impact your day to day life are governed by these regulatory bodies that are completely unaccountable.

00:37:17.300 And it's it's it's it's essentially from what I understand, it's like almost any regulation right now that hasn't been sort of written down as standing law or like positively determined in a court case is now completely up for grabs.

00:37:37.960 Which is super cool for crypto guys, it's it's it's it's fascinating for, you know, like the effort to reindustrialize and and and bring manufacturing back to the States.

00:37:52.340 Um, I think it's maybe, you know, and I've said this in a couple of contexts, but like there are elements of having some rules that I think people are going to miss or that like there's going to be some some slippage while we reorient and figure out, you know, who makes the rules on this stuff.

00:38:16.780 Uh, because what has what has what has happened essentially is that power, power can't be created or destroyed, right?

00:38:25.400 It can only be redistributed.

00:38:27.520 And so power to to make these determinations has gone from the executive bureaucracy to the legislature and the judiciary.

00:38:36.060 And, you know, in terms of like Congress people, you know, accepting money to like dump, you know, phthalates in the water or whatever, like that's a real thing, like, like, you know, sort of your your your environmental lefty liberal is like not entirely wrong about the role of money in sort of forming environmental policy, you know, prior to all this.

00:39:04.260 And of course, you know, the money goes to the regulators, too.

00:39:05.960 It's it's what I'm saying is we're not out of the woods like it's not going to be a perfect solution, but it does open up a lot of possibilities, which is exciting.

00:39:15.280 Yeah. And that's really key because a lot of people also acted like this just decimated the administrative state, like the deep state is dead.

00:39:21.060 This is, you know, of course, the left was like, oh, this is the end of the republic.

00:39:24.980 You know, this this this is well, they want to call it the republic, our democracy.

00:39:29.040 Yes, this is the end of our democracy.

00:39:31.260 You know, if if if if unelected bureaucrats can't tell us how all of the laws work, then that means democracy is over. 0.82

00:39:39.000 That's exactly what democracy means.

00:39:41.080 But ultimately, really, this just opens up more court challenges.

00:39:44.720 The regulatory agencies still wield an enormous amount of power.

00:39:47.960 They still make a lot of decisions.

00:39:50.480 This is not by any means the end of the administrative state or the idea that, you know,

00:39:55.800 the Congress will actually make these laws again.

00:39:58.120 Unfortunately, that's not what's happening here.

00:40:00.100 But it does mean that these things are no longer immune to judicial review.

00:40:04.700 They're no longer immune to court challenges.

00:40:08.240 People can regularly bring the federal government and the experts into the court and challenge these things,

00:40:14.720 which means much more, like you said, of the laws up for grabs, loosens this up quite a bit, which is really critical.

00:40:21.940 And then the other one that just happened.

00:40:23.780 And then, again, this is the end of the republic.

00:40:25.660 It's it's the end of the world.

00:40:27.380 But the the Supreme Court has also ruled that the president has immunity for their constitutional duties,

00:40:35.900 even after they leave office, which is critical because, of course, a lot of what the left is trying to do is say, well,

00:40:42.000 Trump basically, you know, tried to do a coup by talking to the vice president about whether or not he should certify certain electors,

00:40:49.640 these kind of things.

00:40:50.320 And basically, he would be covered in those actions because he would be speaking to the vice president in his capacity as the commander in chief.

00:40:58.720 And so therefore, he would have immunity.

00:41:00.880 Now, they said that he does not have immunity in non-constitutional actions or those that don't go ahead and comport with his official duties.

00:41:08.540 That also means that a lot of this needs to get kicked down to lower courts.

00:41:13.740 Basically, all this decision really did.

00:41:16.600 It was there was no final ruling on any of the things that happened.

00:41:19.460 All of this got kicked down to lower courts and they all have to spin this back up.

00:41:22.980 And on each one of these issues that's being brought to them, say, is this an official duty?

00:41:28.380 Does it qualify for immunity now that we understand what immunity means in this scenario?

00:41:33.360 Does it apply to the specific action?

00:41:35.320 And then they all have to go back up probably to the Supreme Court again, which means really the only thing this did was kick the court, kick the can past the presidential election.

00:41:44.540 But that's really all it needed to do in terms of Trump, because it means he's going to be able to run.

00:41:51.320 That's really what we found out at the end of the day.

00:41:53.420 Yeah. And you sort of get into this this postmodern situation where it's like what constitutes an official duty and like how how is that decided?

00:42:03.680 Like these are these are it's sort of.

00:42:08.700 A specific case of the broader intuition that like law does not protect you, the words on the page do not defend themselves.

00:42:17.400 They don't tell you how to interpret themselves.

00:42:19.780 And so it does amount to the decisions of the decisions of of individual human beings in the aggregate.

00:42:30.860 It's sort of it's it's it's it's simultaneously individual human beings matter, but sort of as a as a as an aggregate, as a bureaucracy.

00:42:44.260 You know, it's all the judges in all the court cases that have to make these decisions.

00:42:48.380 And one of the things that I think is is really exciting about both of these rulings is just that it opens the aperture for not just legal challenges,

00:43:02.100 but also for people to just sort of stop complying in a way that makes these that makes these bureaucracies unable to sustain the level of enforcement they've been doing.

00:43:15.560 And the idea that because, you know, there's a lot of little fish.

00:43:20.900 I mean, if you're if you're a normal person, you ever been in a situation where like you've been the victim of like a civil like an opportunity where you might sue somebody and you ever talk to a lawyer and they've said, oh, yeah,

00:43:39.120 it's going to be like one hundred thousand dollars minimum, it's like, well, OK, well, then that law just doesn't protect me like I don't I you know, it doesn't matter at all.

00:43:49.620 And that's the case for like most Americans, like if everything has to be challenged in court, then like most Americans basically just whatever happens to you is what happens to you.

00:43:58.500 You just got to live with it. But the idea that there are some big fish and this is a fishing something that's funny, but if there's a big fish who can say like, no,

00:44:10.400 I'm just not going to do that and I'm not going to comply and we could take it all the way up the top.

00:44:14.900 But the idea that it's creating more opportunities for that kind of action just to gum up the gears, just to slow them down and make them think and make that because they got to they got to spend money to show up in court, too.

00:44:27.020 And they don't always win. That that to me is really exciting.

00:44:31.980 And I think I think I think even Trump, if he's the guy or whoever the guy is, that's that's supposed to I don't know about save America, but but but but make things better meaningfully.

00:44:51.660 And whoever that guy is, is going to have to act both inside and outside the acceptable framework of sort of the the liberal world view and our system of laws and things like this.

00:45:12.060 They just create a lot more wiggle in the system for both types of action.

00:45:17.400 And so I think it's it's it's not a panacea like, again, the law, the law does not save you from the feds in any sense.

00:45:26.860 But by creating by by throwing some things up in the air, creating a little bit of chaos, it introduces opportunities for powerful actors to really to really shake things up.

00:45:39.020 Absolutely. All right. Well, we have a ton of questions from the audience, so let's switch over to that real quick.

00:45:43.960 But before we do, Kevin, where should people be looking for all of your great work?

00:45:48.380 Maybe tell them about exit before we switch over.

00:45:50.800 Yeah. So so exit is essentially a fraternity built around a lot of these ideas around getting out from under these bureaucracies,

00:46:00.720 getting your own income streams, getting your own education systems, basically your own social networks,

00:46:07.960 being able to connect with like minded people outside of some of these these oppressive systems and to become robust to the kinds of coercion,

00:46:18.600 because like one of the things that we talked about, they're not all powerful.

00:46:22.600 They don't they don't see all they can't stop you from doing anything you want to do.

00:46:26.340 There's lots of things you can do.

00:46:27.400 And so it's about building capacity outside of sort of the attack vectors of these systems.

00:46:36.200 I'm also running a conference on demographic decline and falling birth rates in December.

00:46:41.940 That's at natalism.org.

00:46:43.880 So, yeah, exit group dot U.S. and natalism dot org.

00:46:46.820 That's where I send people.

00:46:48.100 Excellent. All right.

00:46:49.160 And let's go to the questions of the people here.

00:46:52.000 J.D. for one says, congrats on the book or well, thank you very much, man.

00:46:57.580 Worked hard on it.

00:46:58.480 Glad people are enjoying it.

00:46:59.820 Always weird when you do something like that. 0.94

00:47:01.680 You're like, maybe people will find out I'm dumb once I put this out.

00:47:04.420 But it seems like people liked it. 0.82

00:47:05.920 So always good to hear.

00:47:08.280 Let's see.

00:47:09.480 He also says, I'm just as I'm just a country boy from South Louisiana.

00:47:14.260 But during the debate, when Biden said, look, we finally beat Medicare.

00:47:18.960 I don't think that was a good talking point.

00:47:20.920 Yeah, I know you could be a professional political commentator, man.

00:47:23.880 I think you've got the essence of the issue down.

00:47:26.740 It was true. 0.75

00:47:27.980 Like I said, I Kevin's right that, you know, all of this stuff was on display.

00:47:33.000 No individual piece was shocking.

00:47:35.240 But man, watching it all put together like that was it was a sight to behold.

00:47:38.900 I really feel like that was a Nixon Kennedy style debate in the way that it just watching it on screen completely changes the way that you understand the dynamics of that debate.

00:47:50.920 Tiny Stupid Demon says, some of you have never tried to talk to an elderly person into moving out of their home and it shows.

00:48:00.480 Man, is that true? 1.00

00:48:01.520 Oh, let's see.

00:48:04.800 Paladin YYZ says, I'm on Foxes and Lions.

00:48:08.500 Nothing yet on Malstein, Geezer or Lars.

00:48:13.540 A lot of political stuff.

00:48:15.100 Sorry, I should have put more classic metal into the into the book.

00:48:18.200 You're right.

00:48:19.200 You should write a book on that.

00:48:20.680 I'm starting to think that you're not a great metal writer starting to think that it isn't even a metal show.

00:48:25.580 You know what, man?

00:48:26.300 I'm taking desperate offense to that.

00:48:28.420 I am wearing the Judas Priest concert T-shirt.

00:48:31.220 OK, I don't need that kind of judgment.

00:48:33.680 I validated myself.

00:48:35.260 By the way, if you didn't get to see the the stream on Black Sabbath over on Simiagog's channel, that was great fun on there with a lot of great guys.

00:48:43.600 Many people who knew a lot more about Black Sabbath than I do.

00:48:45.980 But if you want to enjoy me and some other guys talking about heavy metal, that's a great place to check it out.

00:48:51.120 Robert Weinsfeld says, pretend GOP cannot win and you have to choose in rank order the following Biden, Hillary, Kamala, Michelle Obama, Newsom or Whitmer.

00:49:02.700 All right, Kevin, if you had to pick one of these horrible people, who would it be?

00:49:07.840 OK, so GOP can't win like forever?

00:49:10.700 Like, yeah, just in the scenario, Trump cannot win or whoever they're going to put up can't win.

00:49:14.700 Who would who would you have to pick out of these people?

00:49:17.200 Well, so there's sort of a Jarvan-esque case that, like, if the GOP can't win, which he believes the GOP can't win, then you just want like you want someone to be as in charge as they possibly can be.

00:49:30.400 And I think that's Newsom. 0.99

00:49:31.560 And, you know, Newsom's a terror and he sucks and I hate him. 0.99

00:49:34.900 But I do think that it would be better for someone to be in charge. 1.00

00:49:41.140 But I'd probably leave the country.

00:49:42.560 But Newsom.

00:49:43.400 Does Hillary not count as being in charge or is she just too old now as well? 1.00

00:49:47.200 Well, I think she's too old and she's also too disliked internally.

00:49:52.780 I think that I think that she doesn't have the ability to actually like.

00:50:00.280 Well, first of all, like the military and even including the sort of the cucked components, the military that we disliked.

00:50:08.720 So it's yeah, I would say Newsom.

00:50:11.920 Fair enough.

00:50:12.380 All right.

00:50:13.300 Cooper Rito says the idea that you guys would cover this debate so close to the fourth is offensive to me and the vast majority of Americans do better.

00:50:21.120 I mean, I already got the the grill plans.

00:50:23.100 We already got the hot dogs and the hamburgers.

00:50:24.920 Don't worry, buddy.

00:50:25.480 There's there will be no politics on July 4th.

00:50:28.380 Have no fear.

00:50:29.300 People are Gabby of Lindbergh says people keep saying Trump is not Caesar.

00:50:35.560 But but all I see is a Caesar.

00:50:38.480 What am I missing?

00:50:39.660 So this certainly feels like we would be in that moment.

00:50:42.400 Right.

00:50:42.660 Like you have the guy who has to win or he goes to jail.

00:50:45.780 And, you know, they're all kind of, you know, if he gets recalled from Gaul, then they're going to go ahead and put him to trial.

00:50:52.600 Like it does feel like we're in the moment that would forge a Caesar.

00:50:56.820 But I feel like we've already been there and Trump just isn't the guy.

00:51:00.260 Right.

00:51:00.520 Like like maybe maybe if we were in a different time or things have been pushed further along the route, then perhaps there would be a guy.

00:51:09.920 There would be a Sulla. 0.96

00:51:11.420 There would be a Caesar.

00:51:12.360 There would be somebody in that in that vein.

00:51:14.520 But it feels like the pressures have not really compacted things to the point where we might get a diamond in that vein.

00:51:22.440 But I don't know.

00:51:22.920 What do you think?

00:51:24.500 Well, you know, I think about how much my perspective has changed since 2020.

00:51:30.520 And and much more since 2016.

00:51:35.660 You know, I think I think Trump could have changed quite a lot in between those four years.

00:51:45.320 I think he I think he probably takes it much more seriously.

00:51:49.220 And I do think that his incentives are aligned with taking it seriously and with taking command of the state because the state is so hostile to him.

00:51:59.020 And so, you know, a lot depends on who his friends are these days.

00:52:05.680 Obviously, that's I'm not saying anything new.

00:52:07.580 That's been a problem since forever.

00:52:09.000 But I see his pivot toward tech.

00:52:14.460 And I think there are ways that could go well and there are ways that could go poorly.

00:52:19.680 But he would be advised by a class of of maybe not more loyal, but just sort of higher IQ, just sort of brighter and more dynamic people so that he would not be sort of the sole source of of of juice in the whole political system, which could potentially be a good thing.

00:52:43.060 So that would be my answer that boss says horns up metal heads shred till dead.

00:52:49.300 Well, thank you very much, sir.

00:52:50.440 Appreciate your support.

00:52:52.760 Make sure you're listening to the metal in the morning when you work out, gentlemen.

00:52:56.100 It is important.

00:52:57.540 Cooper weirdo says the idea that individualism isn't the only true religion is absolutely insane.

00:53:02.780 What are you even talking about?

00:53:03.980 Come on, man.

00:53:04.800 Cooper weirdo, the voice of the disembodied liberal.

00:53:07.200 We appreciate your help, sir.

00:53:09.500 Let's see.

00:53:11.840 Latrina Bennett, IRS enforcer, says to quote Lomas on Twitter, everyone realizes now we don't have a president, but nobody has any clue who's making decisions.

00:53:22.200 Nobody even bothers to ask.

00:53:24.120 Yeah, I think that's dead on.

00:53:26.060 I think that's pretty much exactly where we're at.

00:53:28.680 There's a lot of momentum, as you mentioned in your essay, a lot of procedure, a lot of momentum.

00:53:34.320 You know, that that is what's driving the vast majority of things right now.

00:53:38.140 Most people are too too scared to ask anything outside of those that kind of procedural question.

00:53:45.660 Jacob Zindel says like watching a senile corrupt old union leader in his hospital bed slowly being trust and safety by an aging recently convicted mob boss.

00:53:58.340 Let's see here.

00:53:59.520 Christus Piao, I'm sure I have come nowhere close to properly pronouncing that, but he says, I just finished the total state last week.

00:54:08.660 It's a great read.

00:54:09.660 Very helpful and encouraging as I plan for the future.

00:54:12.700 It was a great follow up to AA's The Populist Delusion, which I read immediately prior.

00:54:16.960 Well, thank you very much.

00:54:18.200 And yeah, the nice thing about those books back to back is AA is giving you a primer on elite theory, why democracy doesn't exactly work and all these things.

00:54:27.900 And then hopefully the total state then is taking you into more of the managerial structure, understanding, you know, why that has arisen and how that impacts the government.

00:54:39.520 So, yeah, hopefully that's a good one to punch for you.

00:54:43.080 Again, the idea that our democracy being threatened isn't scary is insanely nonsensical.

00:54:48.880 You guys make me so.

00:54:50.420 So, the idea.

00:54:52.040 All right.

00:54:52.660 Thank you.

00:54:53.800 And then Life of Brian.

00:54:55.200 Isn't it crazy that all these Democrat big shots have direct lines to the cartel media in real time?

00:55:02.240 Well, and that's really the interesting thing, man, is how much the media feeds back into the party structure and the party structure feeds back into the media.

00:55:10.840 Which one is driving which at any given time is always the question.

00:55:15.020 And that's why it's so important, again, to view these different factions as not being a monolith.

00:55:20.000 They're all working with and against each other simultaneously.

00:55:24.060 Everyone is checking each other's narratives.

00:55:26.240 They're being influenced by the incentive structure and the way that things are being shaped each time.

00:55:33.340 And so it's really important to remember that it's not just one thing.

00:55:36.700 It's all feeding back into itself, which is why the whole system seems so muddled.

00:55:41.680 And then finally, Creeper Weirder here says,

00:55:46.140 The idea that you don't get the joke I'm making is embarrassing, Oren.

00:55:49.520 Don't you watch The Wade Show?

00:55:51.040 Yes.

00:55:51.400 Wade is fantastic.

00:55:52.440 Everybody should be watching The Wade Show.

00:55:54.340 Big fan of his clips as well.

00:55:56.820 All right, guys.

00:55:57.460 We're going to go ahead and wrap this up.

00:55:59.520 Thank you so much for coming by.

00:56:02.140 Kevin, make sure that everybody is checking out all of his work.

00:56:05.460 He's got a fantastic sub stack and Twitter that you should be following in addition to checking out Exit and the Conference.

00:56:11.680 And, of course, if it's your first time on this channel, make sure you go ahead and subscribe.

00:56:15.780 Turn on those notifications.

00:56:17.020 Click the bell so you can watch the streams when they go live.

00:56:19.860 Make sure that you go ahead and follow The Oren McIntyre Show on your favorite podcast platform.

00:56:25.960 And if you want to pick up my book, The Total State, which many people have been very kind to go ahead and recommend on the show today,

00:56:32.180 you can do that on Amazon, Barnes & Noble Books A Million, or you can order it at your local bookstore.

00:56:36.820 Once again, everybody, great talking to you.

00:56:38.800 I'll see you next time.

00:56:39.800 I'll see you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - July 01, 2024

Biden Debate Disaster ｜ Guest： Kevin Dolan ｜ 7⧸1⧸2024

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