Charles Haywood of The Worthy House joins me to discuss why the Democratic Party and the media are so obsessed with demonizing white supremacy and white nationalism, and why it's a waste of time and energy to try to debunk it.
00:01:55.140But to communist, early communist, early 20th century communist language, identifying the Kulaks and the bourgeoisie,
00:02:03.020which of course were the targets of organized expropriation and extermination by the Bolsheviks,
00:02:08.980as well as by other communist regimes, as well as later communist regimes like Pol Pot and so on.
00:02:14.120And so what I did was I compared those terms to white nationalism and white supremacy as terms of flexible meaning,
00:02:21.600the mean actual meaning of which is irrelevant, but the goal of which is to justify and implement the left program of expropriation,
00:02:31.760followed by extermination of political enemies.
00:02:34.640I mean, we won't spend any time on it.
00:02:37.300White supremacy is obviously not a thing.
00:02:39.000White nationalism is not a thing any more than, you know,
00:02:41.940Martian supremacy or Martian nationalism is a thing in America.
00:02:45.680Those things are roughly equivalent in the terms of in terms of number of adherents and certainly equivalent in the amount of political relevancy.
00:04:11.740You're missing the very point of the rhetoric.
00:04:14.340And that's why we see people like Joe Biden.
00:04:17.220But most importantly, his all of these functionaries, we see the heads of FBI, CIA, you know, the Justice Department, you know, the the attorney general.
00:04:27.420All of these people will repeat this over and over again, ad nauseum, even members of the Trump administration.
00:04:32.760Some of these officials under Donald Trump said the same thing.
00:04:36.340And it's very interesting that no matter who the the leader is, this rhetoric continue continues to echo throughout our administrative state, which means it probably has more than just some statistical refutation that needs to happen here.
00:04:50.720I agree. I mean, I think refutation is entirely the wrong approach.
00:04:55.860I think that preparedness is is the right approach.
00:04:58.600There's really no no changing the fact that this is the inevitable end and always is historically the inevitable end of the left march to power or attempted march to power.
00:05:09.160There is only one end point, which is existential conflict in order to either eliminate and destroy left power, unfortunately, historically, only until the next iteration.
00:05:20.580Hopefully it can be some done someday in a way that's permanent or to accept that these people are going to steal everything you have.
00:05:28.100And if you're lucky, only put you in a camp, but more likely kill you.
00:05:32.180And so if you don't recognize that, then it's a mistake.
00:05:35.580The the manifestations obviously vary because the communists focused on class, whereas here we see a focus on the nomenclature of race.
00:05:45.980And I'm sure you could write an academic paper on why the current incarnation of the left, the Western left.
00:05:51.780And here we're primarily talking about the American left, though.
00:05:55.280Weirdly, it's also imported into the broader Western or Anglophone left is race.
00:06:00.160Obviously, America has a long history of racial conflict, and perhaps it's a that's why they choose race rather than class.
00:06:12.060And then you get sort of getting the weeds about, well, you know, which races are the races that are being attacked?
00:06:18.240Is race really an element or is it everybody who's a political enemy?
00:06:21.440Is it that white people and honorary white people like Asians are the political enemy?
00:06:25.200I mean, how much race is actually involved? Those are interesting discussions to have.
00:06:29.320But the discussion you shouldn't have is, I agree, digging out statistics to prove that there are five whites, actual white supremacists in the United States and they have no political relevance.
00:06:39.140I don't think that is a useful thing to do at all.
00:06:42.600Yeah, it's pretty obvious that people like Clarence Thomas, you know, being being immediately dubbed honorary white people.
00:06:48.440It means there's probably something a little beyond just purely race.
00:06:52.200But I do think that that does obviously play an element for these people.
00:06:55.620They wouldn't march behind this flag if it didn't have some kind of rhetorical weight for them.
00:07:00.280But I think you're right that continually trying to refute this is is not the way to go.
00:07:05.080Now, obviously, you know, some some people here are going to be familiar with the Kulaks.
00:07:10.040But can we just give a little bit of context for people who might not be familiar with the history or kind of the the terminology who are the Kulaks and why were they such an important target for the Soviets?
00:07:19.460So once upon a time when the Soviet Bolsheviks took power in 1917, the the focus, of course, of communism throughout the 19th century was class.
00:07:31.300That is the oppression of one set of classes by another set of classes.
00:07:35.040And this was this filtered through the Soviet Bolshevik lens came out in part in the idea that the people who are responsible for blocking the ascension of communism and its immediate deliverance of utopia were Kulaks, which is a generic term, meaning in essence, before the Soviets appropriated it, wealthy farmer, wealthy here, meaning somewhat wealthier than his neighbors.
00:08:01.840The Russians have a long and not very respectable history of class envy.
00:08:08.300And so there is a long history and there's all various folktales about Russian peasants being envious of their slightly richer neighbors.
00:08:14.840So the term Kulak does not mean someone with a giant estate.
00:08:17.960It means someone who has a few more animals than his neighbors, though it could be people who have a more substantial difference in assets or wealth than their neighbors.
00:08:27.620And so especially when the Soviets were looking for food and trying to accumulate food from the countryside, they focused on whipping up propaganda campaigns of hatred against the Kulaks, which is a definition they expanded to be basically not just wealthy or farmers, but everybody they suspected of perhaps being opposed to the Soviet state.
00:08:48.660A very broad group of people, including people like landless laborers who, for some reason, were identified, for example, with an ethnic group that might be considered to be anti-Soviet.
00:09:00.360All these people were considered Kulaks and were expropriated and liquidated, killed by the millions.
00:09:06.120There's more to it, but basically it was a term originally meaning rich farmer repurposed, just like white supremacy or white nationalism, which is something that has a real meaning, but expanded simply to mean political enemy.
00:09:19.860Right, and I think the malleability of that term is important, but I think it's also important to understand some of the kind of mechanics of power that are happening here.
00:09:29.620So I think the reason that Kulaks are always a problem for any centralizing regime is the high and low versus middle distinction, right, from Bertrand de Juvenal.
00:09:39.160If you want to centralize power, you need to get rid of autonomy.
00:09:43.040You can't have these people in the middle who have created social networks, who have created political networks, who have created economic networks, all these things that allow them to exist outside the power of the state.
00:09:58.060The continued infrastructure of the previous regime cannot be allowed to move into the new one if the current regime is going to maximize its control.
00:10:09.060And so you need to find a way, an excuse to collapse that middle class, that class that has accumulated enough property, enough social networking, enough social capital, enough independence to not always need and listen to the demands of the centralized state.
00:10:25.940And so obviously not all Kulaks could do that, but some of the Kulaks did represent this.
00:10:31.680The class envy is a huge part of it, but also the ability of them to provide for themselves, to show some level of independence and self-reliance.
00:10:39.380That's a huge problem for a state that is kind of billing itself on its ability to top-down manage the entire economy, the entire infrastructure.
00:10:48.620And here in America, we have a similar thing, kind of these remnants of bourgeoisie capitalism, particularly those that might have been connected to any kind of remnants of European settlers in the United States.
00:11:03.440They need to be removed because they continue to perpetuate that system that allowed for independence, that allowed for regionality, that allowed for the kind of a federal government to exist.
00:11:15.080And if we can just get rid of those, if we can just remove those infrastructures, then the total state can kind of solidify their control and their need to exercise that top-down central planning of everything.
00:11:27.280You know, I think that's exactly right.
00:11:29.480And I think you touched on the other term, which is highly relevant, which is bourgeoisie, which is kind of the urban equivalent of the Kulaks, the same group of people who have independent assets, independent thought, independent social networks.
00:11:41.500And that's an even more flexible term than Kulak, which is also something that's more specifically Russian.
00:11:47.320Bourgeoisie is a more common communist target for expropriation and extermination and even more flexible.
00:11:55.220I think what goes along with that is also a form of magical thinking, which is that these people are the backbone of a society, right?
00:12:03.680They supply both the, in a competent state, they supply a lot of the governmental functions as well in terms of filling civil services, service positions, so on.
00:12:15.440But they basically form the backbone of the economy as well as the social fabric that is keeping things together and charities and all the other things that the web of fabric that used to be provided by civil society.
00:12:29.460And now over the 20th century and into the 21st is now largely provided by government, as you say, increasing the total state.
00:12:37.340But there's a form of magical thinking.
00:12:39.560Take everything these people have and we can kill them or, for those who don't kill, eliminate the political relevancy, yet we can somehow maintain the social benefits and economic benefits that these people provide.
00:12:51.480I mean, this only ends one way, which is in tears and disaster, but for whatever reason, the left can never see that.
00:12:57.960So the arc is inevitable of what they will do.
00:13:00.620Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because that was going to kind of be the next thing I wanted to touch on.
00:13:04.280Obviously, there was a huge consequence for eliminating the Kulaks because they knew how to farm.
00:13:09.300And it turns out if you get rid of all the farmers who are good at farming, the only people you have left to produce food are people who don't know how to do it.
00:13:17.560And it seems like we're possibly looking at the same fate here.
00:13:23.260Middle America is what runs this place.
00:13:26.140These are the people who are, for better or for worse for the left, however they see it, those that, like you said, make the thing go.
00:13:33.440And it's very clear we're losing a lot of competency out of that class right now.
00:13:38.740We're in a situation where we're entering this almost post-apocalyptic scenario where people can't maintain basic structures of society.
00:13:49.060They don't know how to repair oil pipelines.
00:13:53.620They don't know how to upkeep basic things.
00:13:55.480And as our economy of cheap new stuff falls apart, as our just-in-time delivery system gets stretched to its limits and we end up running into the situation where you can't just bring in the new set of cheap cars from whatever country, the ability to do things like maintain a vehicle becomes pretty essential.
00:14:14.520But you've hollowed out the class of the same people who are keeping these kind of things running.
00:14:19.060And so all of a sudden you're in a situation where you've tried to force the competent class out of the scenario because they happen to be the same people who stand in the way of your expansion of power and you've undermined the ability of your civilization to function in the meantime.
00:14:34.740I think it's important to note as you talk about the competent people, traditionally the bourgeoisie is regarded as the middle and upper middle class.
00:14:42.780But really, the people we're talking about nowadays, the people who are the white supremacists or what have you, are really what Hillary Clinton called the deplorables.
00:14:51.880That is, typically what historically we consider lower middle class people, blue collar people, people without the academic credentials to get the expensive job.
00:15:03.040The people at the higher end of the middle class social spectrum are almost all parasites now.
00:15:08.06080% of them whatever, as shown, of course, by a classic example is Musk firing 80% of Twitter.
00:15:14.220Those kind of people don't provide any value and don't have any competency.
00:15:17.900The people who provide the value, both in terms of economic value and social fabric, are really people who historically are kind of lower down on the class scale.
00:15:27.160Now, this is probably, you'd have to sit down and think about a fruitful avenue for distinction between communism on the one hand and the current regime incarnation of leftism on the other, because the class distinctions aren't exactly the same.
00:15:41.980And this probably flows again into the race distinction.
00:15:45.100But it doesn't matter at the end of the day.
00:15:46.800I mean, the battle lines are drawn because it's obvious to anyone who's paying attention who's on which side of the political divide, who has the political power and is defining their political enemies, namely defining them as us, and who is going to be the recipient of their murderous attacks, which is us.
00:16:04.380So I'm sure there's some academic distinctions to be made between class and race and the different ways you can slice this pie.
00:16:10.680But I think you should continually return to the fact of who is friend and who is enemy.
00:16:15.540Yeah, there is an obsession, of course, and I have been involved in this battle many of the time publicly online, about the origin of wokeness or our current progressive regime, what it's actually tied to, what the really operative stuff is.
00:16:30.660And those are interesting discussions.
00:16:32.800I think they have some value, though, again, as I've said before, these should mainly be academic distinctions.
00:16:40.180They shouldn't really be something that the average person has to worry about.
00:16:42.540The only reason I think these origins really matter or worth debating is the number of people who seem obsessed with pushing this idea that wokeness is just Marxism, because then if we can just get rid of Marxism, we don't have to worry about the other things that we really, really love about the United States up until the 1990s.
00:16:59.180None of that stuff was an issue, and none of it would have naturally led us here.
00:17:02.180It all will just go away as soon as we get rid of Foucault from the classroom, right?
00:17:05.620Yeah, no, that's not going to work out.
00:17:08.880I mean, it's pretty obviously not working out.
00:17:10.960We can debate whether, despite the undoubted virtue of the Founding Fathers, that the enlightenment seeds of the American experiment laid the necessary ground for where we are now.
00:17:23.160That said, I mean, I think the answer is probably yes.
00:17:25.640But I've kind of come relatively recently to this realization of existential conflict inside of America.
00:17:34.020I'm old enough that I can remember the late 80s, early 90s as a political matter.
00:17:39.240And I always used to be very, I was always averse to seeing these conflicts in existential terms.
00:17:50.180It was clear that this is where we were heading even then, and here we are.
00:17:55.500It's just kind of sad to me that I have to put out tweets about, you know, realizing that our enemies want us all dead.
00:18:01.520It's really not where I expected to be when I turned 50, but, you know, what you're going to do?
00:18:05.740Yeah, it is one of those things that is very unsettling to realize, because obviously it puts you into a very precarious position.
00:18:13.760But it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sit around in there and mince the words, especially when, like you said, what matters here at this point is kind of the operative politics.
00:18:23.220You know, it's great to, again, think about the academic, you know, origins of this stuff and how that actually ends up playing out.
00:18:31.460But at the end of the day, time is short, and you really need to figure out how to organize things and what you should expect and not so much worry about debates about, you know, 250 years ago and, you know, where this all would have delivered us now.
00:18:43.760Wow. Now it's, sorry, I had something right here. I wanted to make sure I hit, oh, we hit the maintenance there.
00:18:49.660Okay, yeah. So then in that case, I wonder what would be then some of these consequences of this rhetoric?
00:18:59.560Obviously, we know that this is used to identify people as enemies, create a wide swath of this.
00:19:07.360We've already seen the willingness of the administration to use forces like the FBI to surveil political enemies.
00:19:14.960We know they went after Trump. We know they knowingly, you know, influenced the election.
00:19:18.860We know that they are kind of emphasizing this rhetoric so that they can expand that power.
00:19:25.280And it seems like the, you know, the left is looking for the next event, the next January 6th, the next George Floyd, the next opportunity to have a reason to expand that definition, accrue additional powers, you know, kind of get the next Patriot Act and push this down on their political enemies.
00:19:43.380Yeah, I think this is the inevitable arc of all left regimes, the all radical regimes more generally.
00:19:51.180But there's very few right radical regimes and not really enough to make a set of historical examples from, but it is the inevitable arc of left regimes, the inability to stop the internal demands for continued leftward progress and the permanent revolution.
00:20:08.720In order to do that, you must always be finding new targets and delivering new goals, or you have to announce that utopia has arrived.
00:20:17.500Because of that, of course, I always define leftism as a combination of demands for emancipation and egalitarianism.
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00:20:54.440In the service of achieving a utopia, and unless you're willing to declare that the utopia has arrived, and everyone can look around and see utopia has not arrived, you must always be saying, well, if only we get this power and we destroy the power of these people, then we can make continued progress towards utopia.
00:21:12.200So I think you're exactly right that they're looking for another way to gin up the next round of power increase and violence directed at their political enemies, whether that's something like the electoral justice protest or the Floyd riots or what have you.
00:21:27.540But I think that those things serve a couple different specific functions.
00:21:32.260I mean, one is simply whipping up their shock troops.
00:21:35.520And again, weirdly, for something that involves allegedly its nomenclature race, all those shock troops, the Antifa types and so on, most of those are white.
00:21:44.000So, you know, you can see just kind of by the very nature of the regime that they give the lie to their own claims to begin with.
00:21:53.000But I think that whipping those people up, whipping the kind of low IQ, high hate level shock troops of the left who kind of implement the forward edge of left power is something, whipping those people up is very important.
00:22:11.640And to do that, historically, propaganda has been used from the French Revolution on.
00:22:15.520And it varies, of course, depending on the context, but this is what they've chosen, white supremacy and so on and white people being defined as white people, Asians and black people who don't agree, who don't agree.
00:22:29.220So but at the same time, there's a serious, that is serious, but there's a more considered and longer term goal, which is expropriation.
00:22:39.760Again, as with the Kulaks, I mean, the holders of the asset, actual assets of the United States are still, by and large, white people who do who work for a living and both assets in terms of the people who produce value.
00:22:53.720And so getting the as the regime and the regime functionaries produce less and less value, it's more and more important to get their hands on the value that exists in order to be able to pay off their, you know, as you said, in the juvenile sense, their high low alliance, they need to pay off the low people who don't produce any value.
00:23:13.820And so seizing the assets is very important.
00:23:16.240And of course, the third reason for this iteration that will happen whenever they can find a convenient excuse is simply to provide a rationale for why they haven't, because these people are still here, because we haven't gotten enough power.
00:23:32.680That's why the promised utopia of total freedom and total egalitarianism hasn't, but just around the corner, once we get this, it's going to be so awesome.
00:23:41.640So all those things flow together, but that's what makes it so dangerous.
00:25:09.540You can level the prescriptions at these people because they totally deserve it and go ahead and take that money and pay off your patronage network.
00:25:17.460But you also end up eventually running to the problem that this is a strategy that burns through itself, right?
00:25:24.380As we said, along with eliminating all the productive people, you will eventually squeeze all of the wealth that has not been concentrated in either the ruling elite
00:25:33.200or has been dissipated down into classes where it is meant very particularly to immediately vanish under the weight of cost of living and other, you know,
00:25:42.300it will not be saved. It will not create generational wealth inside the patronage network.
00:25:47.160At that point, you have a really big problem, especially when you've kind of run your economy into the ground.
00:25:53.420And so I think we're going to eventually see that the miracle of progress and the willingness to redistribute kind of the income of the middle class
00:26:00.900in a way that's not going to create generational wealth for those that are counting on that patronage network
00:26:07.460is eventually going to run you into a scenario where there's simply nothing left to feed people.
00:26:12.300Except the people at the top. That's all that's left.
00:26:16.040Yeah. And I think in this historically, that's definitely the case.
00:26:19.260But it's exacerbated in this case by the fact that so much of American wealth is fake and based upon both.
00:26:27.720I mean, GDP is kind of obviously fake in many ways, 70 or 80 percent of it, maybe something in that range.
00:26:34.000But and I'm hardly an expert in things like the U.S. dollar is the reserve currency and the use of the petrodollar and so on.
00:26:41.100So I have no opinion about whether the United States dollar is going to collapse soon or whether the BRICS countries will undercut the American ability to export its inflation and so on.
00:26:50.620But the fact is that you can easily imagine a scenario where at the same time, while the white working class becomes unproductive,
00:26:58.220either because as an essence, a form of strike or because they've been hounded to the hills or because so much of their actual wealth has been expropriated.
00:27:10.200And at the same time, there's some overarching economic collapse that doesn't allow the regime to continue levitating the economy and creating free money out of nothing.
00:27:19.880That would actually be catastrophic in an extremely short period of time.
00:27:23.760And again, that's what I mean by the regime's reach exceeding its grasp.
00:27:27.680They're like, well, you know, we can continue squeezing these people over the next several years.
00:27:31.000And then one day you wake up and nothing works at all anymore.
00:27:33.720So that's kind of, I mean, I'm not hoping for that, but, you know, that's the kind of historical opportunity that exists to make changes.
00:27:43.020Yeah, I mean, it's the same problem they ran into when they decided it was a great idea to kind of purge all these people out of the military, right?
00:27:49.980We'll use the vaccine mandate as a code word for purging, you know, our most, you know, all the Appalachian boys out of the military.
00:27:58.980And all of a sudden there's no recruits.
00:28:01.420There's no, there's no, because it turns out these people made up the bulk of combat arms, made up the bulk of special forces, made up the bulk of the most forward-facing part of the military.
00:28:10.800And it turns out you can't get enough, get enough drone pilots to really make up for these guys.
00:28:15.700No, and the people, the recruits they do have, they have to hugely lower both intellectual and physical standards.
00:28:23.520So, I mean, only a fool would have any confidence in the ability of the American military to fight any large scale, unfortunately.
00:28:32.780I mean, fortunately and unfortunately.
00:28:35.820That is, I'm in favor of America having an adequate military force.
00:28:40.180I'm not in favor of the regime having any military force.
00:28:42.940And so until the regime is separated from America, then the question of whether it's good or bad to have a strong army remains open.
00:28:53.520Yeah, it's really unfortunate, you know, as someone who grew up as the, you know, the kid of a military officer, lived on military bases most of my childhood.
00:29:04.320These are people I have the highest respect for.
00:29:06.320These are organizations that I used to basically worship.
00:29:09.660And watching them fall into something like this is ugly.
00:29:12.120But at the same time, we do have to understand, like, the interests of the nation and the interests of the empire have separated.
00:29:18.040The interests of our ruling class and the global empire that they want to operate are not the interests of the American people.
00:29:24.180And so what's good, unfortunately, for the empire is bad for the nation, which means if the empire has a more functional and competent military, their plan is not to just infinitely strand that somewhere in a foreign country.
00:29:35.600Eventually, eventually, it's coming home for you.
00:29:37.660And so, you know, that is a very hard thing, very difficult thing, especially for people like myself who are talk radio conservatives most of their lives and, you know, to kind of deal with.
00:29:49.440And there's there's, again, just no value in denying that is as difficult as it might be to kind of face that.
00:29:55.620But I also wanted to look at the the effect of this rhetoric, this white supremacist rhetoric on another big tool of our regime, which is a narco tyranny.
00:30:07.680So I think at this point, especially due to Tucker Carlson's usage, almost all conservative political pundits are now familiar with the term narco tyranny.
00:30:16.540But this is something that has been at play for a long time.
00:30:19.920San Francis obviously introduced this in, I think, the 1990s.
00:30:23.360And so this is, you know, this is a process that we've been undergoing for quite a while.
00:30:27.880But it's become so obvious and so painful that it's hard to ignore for pretty much anyone at this point.
00:30:33.720And there's really no case of this that's more obvious than we look at what's happened in New York with cases like, I believe it's Daniel Penny, right?
00:30:41.420Yeah. Yeah. So so Daniel Penny, you know, he and two men of color, as far as I can tell, subdue a violent homeless man who has kidnapped people, who's, you know, who's threatening to assault people on this train.
00:30:55.100And the guy ends up dying, you know, because probably not the healthiest individual, by the way, just as a quick aside, all these people are, oh, it's a it's a chokehold.
00:31:04.860It's it's fatal. Guys, I have put people in a rear naked choke and have been put in a rear naked choke countless times.
00:31:10.720I'm still here. Everyone else is still here. That's not how these these carotid artery chokes necessarily work.
00:31:18.080But if you're an unhealthy person, if you're someone who's done a lot of drugs or lived on the street your entire life, then, yeah, you might have a more serious condition when when something like that happens.
00:31:27.240Point being, this guy is obviously involved in some form of defense, if not direct self-defense, defense of everyone around him.
00:31:33.900Anyone in a sane society would have pinned a medal on this guy's chest at some point.
00:31:39.820Obviously, like we don't have direct footage of what happened here, but from everything we can tell, that's the case.
00:31:45.600And now not only is this guy facing serious charges, but he had to come out and tell everyone he's not a white supremacist.
00:31:52.720And that is probably the saddest thing we've ever seen, because the rhetoric involved here is specifically designed to keep good people from protecting those around him,
00:32:02.100to destroy social fabric, to make sure that any at any time, if you think about stepping in and protecting yourself or others from people who have been specifically left on the street by the regime to terrorize you,
00:32:13.320you will be labeled this white supremacy thing and it's all over for you.
00:32:17.520Yeah. And so it's very unfortunate, as you say, that the frame is unavoidable because they control the media, so they control the narrative.
00:32:25.660And so you're forced into, and there's a lot of people out there who are not regime toadies, but buy into this idea that because of all the propaganda,
00:32:35.800I mean, there's a large numbers of people out there who buy into this propaganda because that's the way propaganda works.
00:32:41.060The masses tend to believe the propaganda or it's completely ineffective propaganda.
00:32:46.200So it's very unfortunate that someone like Penny has to come out and make statements when the correct response is to punch the person in the face who asked the question
00:32:55.200and have that person, you know, flogged round land, thrown in the nearest canal to swim to the shore.
00:32:59.760I mean, that's the way things used to be handled in a society where people just wouldn't accept this kind of anarcho tyranny,
00:33:08.340which is really just factionalism, which is one of the oldest, oldest political tricks in the book.
00:33:14.040The rules apply relating to violence, apply to you, but don't apply to me.
00:33:18.520I mean, that's, and this was true in Greek city-states.
00:33:22.580The factions formed and the factions applied different rules to themselves.
00:33:36.020That is, there's no universe in which, let's say, Daniel Penny is acquitted, in which that's an acceptable result.
00:33:42.960The only acceptable result is for everyone involved in the process of this persecution, the media, the prosecutors, to suffer extreme punishments.
00:33:52.860And, you know, exile, confiscation of all their assets, you know, public humiliation.
00:33:58.760Until we are a society which implements punishments for people like that, which, of course, means civil conflict,
00:34:04.520then they will just continue to do these things to us.
00:34:07.860I mean, back in the day, people would, if the people of New York had any sense, they would have had every moral right to storm the courthouse and free Daniel Penny and then give him a nice steak dinner to celebrate.
00:34:22.040And then if the relevant local law enforcement came along to keep them away by force, that's what they should, you know, there's no moral reason that they can't do that.
00:34:32.000But that's not what we are as a society.
00:34:34.440I don't want us to be there as a society.
00:34:37.220But we have to understand that's the way they treat us.
00:34:40.760Whereas anyone, when they kill people on our side, they're never charged.
00:34:45.500I mean, there was the recent case where that, remember, during the Floyd riots, that security guard shot some Trump supporter in the face.
00:34:53.460There was a case last week where in North Dakota, of all places, the DA dialed back the charges, something minimal for a guy who deliberately killed a teenage Trump supporter.
00:35:03.260So you can't run a society where one set of people is allowed to kill the other set of people and the other set of people isn't allowed to fight back.
00:35:15.700I'm not suggesting anyone go out and do violence.
00:35:18.340I am suggesting people defend themselves.
00:35:20.480But you just can't run a society this way.
00:35:23.840And it's it's just kind of sad because they used to feel like America was more like America.
00:35:28.320But, you know, as I said before, what you're going to do?
00:35:31.900Yeah, I mean, there's just a horrific ability of this constant propaganda to kind of force this on the people.
00:35:39.160I don't know if you remember this a few years ago, but there was this five year old in North Carolina called Cannon Hennett.
00:35:45.360And he was shot and killed while riding a bicycle was shot in the head because and the defense of the black man who did it was he said something racist.
00:36:01.960But the horrific idea that that would have been a justification, that that would even come to mind is something that could justify that kind of violence, that kind of horrific violence is already insane.
00:36:13.380But the worst part about it was the child's mother, the mother of the slain child, felt that her most important duty was to run out and tell everybody how not racist her son was, as if that was the relevant point, as if that was the key factor in what of the events that just occurred there.
00:36:30.040It was her duty as the mother of a slain child to go out and vindicate him from the far worst sin, not not one of murder, but one of possible racism.
00:36:40.120That was the that was the most salient fact kind of in that scenario.
00:36:45.020And as long as you have that kind of hold and sway on the mind of the population, it's very difficult for people to kind of look and understand what's happening.
00:36:53.900Yeah, that is the kind of weird thing, the hold on the minds of the population.
00:36:58.680I mean, the traditional answer to factionalism of this type that's or narco tyranny is vigilante justice.
00:37:06.980And that's what people typically turn to in these kind of situations.
00:37:10.740And then eventually, either the people who initiated this cycle of violence decide they need to dial it back or you move on to the next cycle of violence.
00:37:19.320But weirdly, people on the right seem to have entirely crippled their minds for the most part and assumed this kind of weird like I don't know if I'm allowed to say this in the podcast, but prison bitch, you know, kind of kind of like I need to just sit here and take it kind of thing.
00:37:37.480And because my ancestors were racist or something like that, I don't get it.
00:37:42.880But it does mean that like so many things about our current situation, it's just unprecedented.
00:37:47.960Like what this is going to lead to as a political matter is just so unclear to me, even though I'm kind of a history guy and I like history.
00:37:54.040Normally, you can see kind of pretty clearly what's going to happen and you can see in broad strokes what's going to happen.
00:38:00.300But as the example of the five-year-old you just gave, I mean, before in history, no normal person would ever behave like that.
00:38:10.820Of course, we also just saw this with the pregnant nurse in New York, right?
00:38:15.660We get this initial video that comes out and it's her, you know, trying to tell this group of young black men, no, you can't have this bike.
00:39:31.880I mean, it's weird because they're clearly looking, as you said earlier, for their next Floyd moment, you know, taking some scumbag and elevating him into some saint.
00:39:43.240And it didn't work out with this Neely guy and Daniel Perry for probably obvious reasons, maybe some non-obvious reasons.
00:39:50.640But it's so weird that the regime and the people who rule us, that is to say, are so actively looking to create a race war.
00:39:58.300I don't think that last I checked, race wars, any wars in general, but race wars don't benefit a society.
00:40:05.220But they want to do it for the reasons we outlined earlier.
00:40:35.540Yeah, I mean, when you're constantly playing Rwanda radio in hopes of jamming up your political, you know, point power, then what other thing is going to come of it?
00:41:08.440And I think it's, you know, it's interesting.
00:41:11.480My buddy, Jesse Kelly, he was saying, you know, when when Trump got indicted, OK, if they indict one of your guys like this, like you've got to you've got to indict one of theirs.
00:41:52.840And, for example, in the Spanish Civil War, what actually kicked off the Spanish Civil War wasn't the massive killing of clergy and burning of churches and all these other things that the left was engaging in.
00:42:04.080But rather where where they decided they were going to kill more or less the equivalent of the speaker of the house and dump his body in the street.
00:42:12.560I mean, some people point people won't put up with these kind of things.
00:42:16.720And it's not typically because the masses rise up.
00:42:19.200It's because the some set of people who are, if not part of the elites, part of a potential counter elite.
00:42:26.660And that gets into the whole elite theory question.
00:42:28.820Realize that it's not going to be to their benefit to allow this to continue any further.
00:42:33.460So in America, the people who are being focused on are the deplorables and then people who are support anybody who might potentially actually push back on left power, which really right now is only Trump and maybe maybe DeSantis.
00:42:50.200I mean, nobody else elected president or elected any political office will actually threaten left power.
00:42:55.540So until people start pushing back on those things, as Jesse Kelly suggested, nothing is going to happen except more of the same with an increasing level of ferocity from the left.
00:43:07.480So does this where people like Elon Musk come in?
00:43:10.420Is this where we start to see kind of that counter elite who then looks at this and says, look, I can't put people on Mars if you're going to destroy society like this?
00:43:19.540Right. Like the whether whether he feels he's got, you know, traditional conservative viewpoints or whatever is kind of immaterial.
00:43:27.620He can't the society he needs to function for him to do a higher order stuff stops existing if this continues.
00:43:33.860And so even if he doesn't care about one particular aspect of the culture war or something, though, apparently he does particularly since it seems like what happened with his child and transgenderism.
00:43:43.120But even if he isn't particularly invested in all of the culture war, it becomes essential for these people like I've got to put a stop to this.
00:43:50.000I've got to I've got to go beyond where I was just, you know, taking pot chats at the regime.
00:43:55.140And I've got to start thinking about how we can actually secure power, because if I don't arrest this revolution, then all of the plans that I have are completely out the window.
00:44:03.960Yes. I mean, Musk would not create a society that's identical to the society that he would create would create.
00:44:10.580But fundamentally, it wouldn't be all that different because Musk, in order to achieve his ambitions, has to live in the real world.
00:44:18.920He is a reality based individual. And the very nature of the left is to deny reality across the board in order in the service of this imagined utopia.
00:44:28.480And I've said for several years now that Musk will either have to destroy the regime or the regime will destroy him.
00:44:34.940And people make the argument, well, the regime is going to co-op Musk and so on and so forth.
00:44:39.280But it's impossible for the regime to co-opt Musk in a meaningful way because the strictures that unreality places upon Musk make it impossible for him to reach his goal.
00:44:50.520So unless he dials back his goals to be just like this rich dude who shoots off some rockets for profit and people kind of treat you differently depending upon whether he's viewed as being politically compliant or not.
00:45:04.620I don't think I doubt if that's the life that he wants, not that Musk calls me up and tells me what the life he wants is.
00:45:10.540But it seems that that is more so than some of the other historical events where military men, for example, decide they've had enough of this leftist regime because it's coming for them.
00:45:23.440You can much more easily see a technologist, and Musk is kind of the obvious candidate, becoming the center around which reality based people coalesce, whether they're people who think the same way as Hayward or not.
00:45:37.560I mean, they could be atheist technologists, but still keenly interested in advancing human flourishing, the flourishing of men and women in a remade America.
00:45:49.360We can worry about the details later. Getting rid of the current regime is the number one goal.
00:45:57.220And I think Musk is probably very hard to predict these things, obviously, but Musk, I have a lot of faith in Musk is the wrong term.
00:46:07.000But I see the seeds of some potential major changes coalescing around Musk.
00:46:13.900But maybe it's just the, you know, three beers I had the other night. Who knows?
00:46:17.080Well, and if not Musk, then someone else who might be in that position, though, he does seem like the only the figure who is in the best position at the moment.
00:46:26.300He has both the, you know, the social clout. He has the technological ability and he has the money power to kind of create a fulcrum.
00:46:35.880He doesn't really have the charisma, the rhetorical ability.
00:46:38.120So, you know, you could imagine someone coming out of out of nowhere, someone I mean, obviously, any number of scenarios is possible.
00:46:46.500But say somebody comes up with some incredible new invention that makes him super rich, like fusion, tabletop fusion.
00:46:54.200And that guy just decides to take the world by storm. And he has other characteristics that fit with that.
00:47:00.160I mean, who's to say? But the thing I try to tell my children all the time is that the despite the kind of hustle and bustle of so-called news and the hype machine,
00:47:15.500really, we haven't seen anything notable happen in the past 10 or 15 years or longer, maybe a couple of decades.
00:47:21.660But someday history will return. And because that's the way it goes into real history is coming for us.
00:47:28.940Well, how soon that is, I don't know. But despite the fact that we're told all the time that all these things are so important,
00:47:36.020the latest outrage is something we now need to talk about. None of this is real history.
00:47:40.200I mean, not even the Russia-Ukraine war is real history, at least not yet.
00:47:43.400I mean, these things are all kind of ticky-tack. The real history is coming. And frankly, I'm kind of bored.
00:47:49.060So despite the fact that they may kill me, I'd like the real history to come back, please.
00:47:55.320Yeah, no, Fukuyama will eventually be proven wrong. But yeah, I think you're right that for all the things we're told that are the end of the world are the most important, pressing thing right now.
00:48:07.580There are far more consequential things that will reemerge, that have to reemerge. Liberalism can only...
00:48:13.400Pave over those things for so long. And we're seeing all of them kind of break...
00:48:17.740The chutes break up through the cracked pavement at the moment.
00:48:22.000Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, exciting times ahead.
00:48:28.180So that said, we've got some questions of the people stacking up here.
00:48:32.440Charles, but before we go look at what they have to say, where can people find your excellent work?
00:48:37.420I write at theworthyhouse.com, where I write a variety of pieces, including a lot of book reviews, which are really my theories masquerading as book reviews for my pet political philosophy, my pet political applied philosophy called foundationalism.
00:48:53.760I also show up on Twitter occasionally, despite the fact that we discussed my somewhat viral tweet.
00:48:59.600I'm not actually a hot takes guy on Twitter, but I do show up on Twitter occasionally.
00:49:04.720But if you want to read my stuff, there are several hundred articles at theworthyhouse.com.
00:49:39.520Is it targeted for expropriation, i.e. stealing, essentially a raider predatory parasite strategy?
00:49:47.680Well, yes, in a sense that stealing is a constant throughout human history.
00:49:53.400But I think that the nature of the left's political project requires a more formalized approach to theft than simply smash and grab, take the purse out of the car kind of theft.
00:50:07.760For the reasons we identify, which in short, kind of boiling it down, are whipping up your myrmidons, your foot soldiers, acquiring value for your patronage network is our incorrectly identified the kind of goal.
00:50:21.240I mean, not just taking the money, but redistributing it in order to gain political power and explaining why you haven't stolen enough yet.
00:50:30.080You haven't eliminated enough people yet.
00:51:24.060And so they're going after all of their enemies to kind of liquidate anyone who would stand against them.
00:51:28.660But again, we've seen this many times.
00:51:30.360The state is always, in a way, parasitic.
00:51:32.880But again, as Bertrand de Juvenal kind of says, you know, all kings begin as parasites, but at some point they gain a care.
00:51:40.120They understand that it's worth investing in the people that they are parasites on instead of just burning it all down.
00:51:46.460And that's when kind of the principle of the Rex arises, when they understand that it is better to care for those from whom they benefit rather than to simply take what they can now and burn it all down.
00:51:57.900The reason that you're seeing what we're seeing now is there is no value in doing anything but burning it all down.
00:52:02.580We've designed our system for exactly that purpose.
00:52:05.980And so it's, you know, the things we're seeing, again, are not new.
00:52:12.080Progressives didn't cook them up in a strategic meeting 10 years ago.
00:52:15.880This is something that we would expect and see as kind of the evolution of regimes move forward when leftists do this kind of thing, as Charles pointed out.
00:52:26.200When leftists are in charge, when they're in this revolutionary paradigm, this is what we expect to see.
00:53:02.040There's this weird thing conservatives do where they don't think that this is happening until the train shows up to move them to the camps.
00:53:09.080They don't realize that the modern state brings the camps to you.
00:53:12.540So you are already in a scenario where you can't speak your mind.
00:53:16.860You're already in a scenario where the government is slowly extracting all of your wealth and the ability of you to have families and to have children and to kind of live a meaningful life.
00:53:27.300And they're doing it slowly by bit by bit so that nobody gets crazy about it.
00:53:34.520Like right wingers can't say basic things.
00:53:36.480Try holding a position in any major company while having, say, a traditional view on marriage or basic biological, biological, correct understanding of gender.
00:53:54.680But I think we're also already in the collapse.
00:53:58.500That is, I'm an accelerationist catastrophist, but I'm not necessarily predicting we all end up in Mad Max.
00:54:06.760You hinted at this with the cracks in the pavement comment earlier, but there's a very strong argument made that America is already in a slow motion collapse.
00:54:18.180And the things that we tolerate now is kind of, oh, well, that's just normal.
00:54:22.440Fifteen years ago, people have been like, what the hell?
00:55:33.840Eventually, at some point, there might be an official crack up of the United States or its political structure.
00:55:39.320But it's kind of amazing what people will live through and kind of not realize it because it's just been restated in a new way and described as the norm.
00:55:51.640Do you think the reason we have not officially entered your session is because the regime doesn't want opposition to its funding in the Ukraine war?
00:56:07.320So when you start from the premise that everything is fake, that doesn't tell you specifically how it's fake because they spend an awful lot of time concealing how things are fake.
00:56:17.220And the United States, because of historical accidents, has the ability to do things like print infinite money without having the consequences that would normally follow on that.
00:56:27.960So I don't think there's any necessary link between declaring a recession or not declaring a recession and the money the regime spends on wastes on things like the war in Ukraine.
00:56:39.800But it's definitely true, more broadly speaking, that everything the government tells us about the economy should be presumed to be a lie and concealing something that they may not even understand themselves, but papering over whatever cracks are appearing probably frequently behind the scenes.
00:57:00.140And eventually those things are going to show.
00:57:02.860But to be fair, I would have predicted they would have showed up before here.
00:57:06.060Like, for example, immediately after the Wuhan plague with all the money printing and paying people to do nothing doesn't seem to have had any effect in people's ability to live.
00:57:16.260And that goes back to the earlier question, which was people are only going to not take it anymore when they feel like their lives are no longer are they need to improve their situation.
00:57:30.140And while it's true that there's an enormous amount of death of despair and opioid addicts and people who are never seen, who are in terrible shape, most of America gets their fake jobs or their fake money, watches their very real Netflix, eats too much food, injects themselves with Ozempic to get rid of the results of that food, lives a kind of soft, cosseted, risk-free existence.
00:57:57.560And until that changes, people aren't going to strike back against the regime's oppression.
00:58:06.100And the same thing is true for the economy.
00:58:08.120Until people feel economic ill effects on themselves, the government lies don't really affect them.
00:58:14.180And you also have to remember, guys, that at some point, like, no matter how stupid the lie is, if you continue to live by it long enough, eventually you embody it as truth.
00:58:22.760And so, like, our regime understands, like, in theory, like, somewhere someone can do math and they understand that, like, selling subprime mortgages to people based on their race again is a mistake.
00:58:36.880Like, they understand that that collapsed the economy last time.
00:58:40.260And if you do it again, you'll get the same story.
00:58:43.400But in reality, they've bought into this.
00:58:45.920And the fact that, like, the political utility of it becomes too much and the idea that they'll be able to get away with this time probably works.
00:58:53.240And actually, don't we actually believe at the end of the day that really these people should have these things and that we can, you know, kind of sustain this hit infinitely?
00:59:01.020Like, at some point, they really do buy into this and they don't even know how to sort their own lies from reality.
00:59:06.500And so, you'll see them embrace solutions that are increasingly ridiculous because they don't even know how to sort their own BS anymore.
00:59:14.760And this is one of the reasons we're going to win because they're stupid.
00:59:18.960And if you think about it, I mean, I was saying to someone the other day that I racked my brain and there's not a single person in kind of public life today within the regime, whether that's a politician or a judge or whatever, that I don't have total contempt for.
00:59:34.120And some of these people are vast majority of just plain stupid.
00:59:37.220Some are bright but blinded by ideology.