The Auron MacIntyre Show - Bukele's War for Peace ｜ Guest： Ben Braddock

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00:00:30.220 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:32.280 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:34.000 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:38.740 So crime in the United States is obviously a huge problem.

00:00:42.520 Many people feel like it's a solvable problem,

00:00:45.100 but it's something that we refuse to take action on.

00:00:48.420 In contrast, many people have looked to El Salvador

00:00:51.200 and the way that their new president, Nebo Kaley,

00:00:54.920 has changed the face of El Salvador.

00:00:57.100 Large amounts of gangs put into prison.

00:01:00.640 The crime rate has dropped very rapidly.

00:01:03.820 And a lot of people wonder if this can be applied to us.

00:01:06.840 But of course, there are a lot of different dynamics.

00:01:09.040 We want to learn more about the man himself,

00:01:11.600 how he rose to power,

00:01:13.000 what he exactly did,

00:01:14.760 and most importantly, what we can learn.

00:01:17.720 And somebody who just wrote a great piece about this was Ben Brodeck.

00:01:22.040 He's a editor over at the publication,

00:01:25.060 I am 1776, and he's joined me today to talk about it.

00:01:28.660 Ben, thanks for joining me.

00:01:30.140 Thanks for having me on.

00:01:31.960 Absolutely.

00:01:32.620 So I think a lot of people, like I said,

00:01:35.000 are going to look at Bukele and say immediately,

00:01:38.460 oh, we should just copy him.

00:01:39.740 We should just be able to do exactly what he did.

00:01:42.400 But I think there's a whole important set of circumstances

00:01:47.280 that brought him to power

00:01:49.120 and allowed him to take the actions that he did.

00:01:51.900 And I want to dive into that with you

00:01:53.820 because I think it's easy for people

00:01:55.420 to just kind of try to one-to-one this to our situation.

00:01:58.380 But I think it's important to understand

00:02:00.060 a little bit of the background

00:02:01.680 before we just try to apply these situations

00:02:04.980 to every given country.

00:02:06.700 But before we dive into all that, guys,

00:02:08.320 I want to tell you real quick about your moral duty

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00:03:15.820 All right, Ben.

00:03:16.660 So I think a lot of people are familiar with this issue

00:03:19.020 just because they saw this massive amount

00:03:21.140 of very tattooed up gang members

00:03:23.680 all being run into these prisons,

00:03:26.240 all being locked up simultaneously.

00:03:28.400 But they probably don't have a lot of background

00:03:30.600 about what actually happened in El Salvador.

00:03:34.280 It's just a South American country

00:03:36.360 or South American country

00:03:37.620 that happens to have a lot of crime.

00:03:39.380 Why were they in this situation?

00:03:41.240 Why are the gangs so prevalent there?

00:03:43.080 Is it just drugs or there are other dynamics in play?

00:03:46.220 Well, you have to go back with what happened

00:03:48.960 in the 1980s with the Civil War there.

00:03:51.300 It was extremely violent

00:03:55.240 and displaced over a million people,

00:03:59.620 led to a mass exodus primarily to the United States.

00:04:05.040 Some parents went ahead

00:04:08.140 and left their kids in the care of relatives

00:04:09.900 while they got established in places like Los Angeles,

00:04:14.160 the suburbs of Washington, D.C.

00:04:15.760 very poor people, you know,

00:04:20.280 going to the poorest, most dysfunctional parts of America

00:04:23.660 in the 1980s, which, you know,

00:04:27.740 American cities were ganglands back then, right?

00:04:32.100 Especially like Los Angeles.

00:04:33.520 That was when the crack boom was underway.

00:04:36.100 And, you know, these new arrivals,

00:04:40.020 they get there and they're really the bottom rung.

00:04:43.560 Like, they're being treated badly by the Mexicans

00:04:47.280 who saw them as, like, poorer and dirtier and browner.

00:04:51.160 So they're, you know, very much

00:04:53.800 in a very desperate ghetto-type situation.

00:04:59.980 And, you know, some of the kids were then, like,

00:05:03.860 left back in El Salvador

00:05:05.740 until their parents could send for them.

00:05:08.000 And that separation from their parents,

00:05:11.320 that caused its own set of issues for a lot of these kids.

00:05:14.940 When they finally, you know,

00:05:17.520 were reunited in the United States,

00:05:20.700 you know, they're in an alien culture.

00:05:24.320 Their parents are somewhat strangers to them in many cases.

00:05:28.540 Their siblings, who are U.S.-born,

00:05:31.040 also very different to them.

00:05:33.060 They, you know, by and large,

00:05:36.240 speak very little English, if any at all.

00:05:40.600 And, you know, of course,

00:05:41.720 their parents, being first-generation immigrants

00:05:45.620 on the lowest rung of the ladder,

00:05:48.820 mostly worked these service jobs,

00:05:51.240 like being, you know, nannies and construction

00:05:54.200 and house cleaners and this sort of thing.

00:05:56.060 So parents working 12, 16 hours a day.

00:05:59.820 And so the kids were put into the school system,

00:06:02.340 which function, the public school system in Los Angeles,

00:06:05.220 at least in those parts of Los Angeles,

00:06:07.120 functions as, like, these daycare centers for the ghetto

00:06:10.440 and are pretty much just jail for kids.

00:06:14.560 But they're also, you know,

00:06:17.260 because you have these different ethnicities in there together,

00:06:20.540 primarily black, Mexican,

00:06:21.940 and then Salvadoran, add that to the mix.

00:06:26.260 There's this tendency to form these ethnic factions,

00:06:30.640 so these ethnic gangs.

00:06:33.140 And so MS-13 really was born from a lot of the,

00:06:38.560 just the ethnic conflict of being in that situation.

00:06:44.840 And so it started as a Salvadoran gang.

00:06:48.600 The earliest origins was actually as, like,

00:06:50.420 a club of kids who would get together

00:06:51.960 and, you know, smoke pot

00:06:55.440 and listen to heavy metal music.

00:06:57.300 The heavy metal influence seems to be

00:06:59.200 what kind of led to there being also this satanic element.

00:07:02.920 You know, throughout the history of MS-13,

00:07:04.780 there was a lot of devil worship that went on.

00:07:08.840 Human sacrifices to Satan.

00:07:12.160 Former gang members interviewed,

00:07:14.160 saying they actually saw Satan appear in the corner.

00:07:18.320 You know, they believed that the more innocent the victim,

00:07:23.700 the better of an offering it was,

00:07:25.440 and they would get these powers in exchange for doing this.

00:07:30.100 They believed that the ultimate sacrifice

00:07:33.700 that you can make to the devil would be to kill an unborn child

00:07:36.460 because they were not touched by original sin,

00:07:39.920 you know, not having been born yet.

00:07:41.240 So just really, some really dark stuff ended up emerging from it.

00:07:45.780 But it started, you know, as this kind of, you know,

00:07:50.220 kids getting, kind of banding together

00:07:52.060 and, you know, being just like a kind of a normal street gang,

00:07:57.060 of which there were a lot of in Los Angeles

00:08:00.900 and a lot of American cities at the time.

00:08:03.300 Well, fast forward to the 90s,

00:08:06.760 after the Civil War was concluded,

00:08:10.340 and both sides,

00:08:12.600 both the far-right Arena Party, the Nationalists,

00:08:18.380 and the far-left FMLN, Communist Guerrillas,

00:08:22.500 they agreed to hold each other unaccountable

00:08:25.460 for any atrocities committed by either side during the war

00:08:28.900 and set up a political system

00:08:31.780 in which they were the two parties in power.

00:08:35.520 And so once the war was concluded,

00:08:38.820 President Clinton began deporting

00:08:41.620 many of the Salvadorans who were in the U.S.

00:08:45.420 back to El Salvador,

00:08:46.380 but without telling the Salvadoran authorities

00:08:49.260 when these members,

00:08:52.380 or when these Salvadorans were gang members,

00:08:55.180 you know, and had been picked up for violent crime

00:08:59.520 or theft or whatever.

00:09:00.740 So, you know, the Salvadoran government

00:09:03.320 thought that they were just getting back,

00:09:05.400 you know, a bunch of Salvadoran refugees.

00:09:09.600 And they were getting some of them,

00:09:11.620 but among them was a lot of people

00:09:13.640 who had already, you know,

00:09:16.320 turned to a life of crime

00:09:19.400 or had gotten involved in one of these criminal gangs

00:09:22.820 that, you know, had by that time

00:09:25.040 had turned into something pretty violent

00:09:27.060 and pretty, you know,

00:09:31.160 it's always been loosely organized,

00:09:33.080 but, you know, pretty distinct away from its origins.

00:09:35.880 It was definitely flavored a lot

00:09:39.960 by its contact and kind of alliances

00:09:42.600 with some of the Mexican mafia.

00:09:44.760 So it was over the course

00:09:46.420 of some of these gang members in the 80s

00:09:48.880 being picked up for various crimes

00:09:50.380 and spending time in jail

00:09:51.500 that they had contact with members

00:09:53.920 of the Mexican mafia

00:09:54.840 who kind of taught them

00:09:55.920 how to, like, professionalize themselves

00:09:58.160 as gangsters.

00:10:00.040 So this leads to a situation in the 2000s

00:10:03.020 where, you know,

00:10:05.060 the gangs rapidly expanded

00:10:06.520 there locally in El Salvador

00:10:08.940 because even though the war was over,

00:10:11.000 there was still, you know,

00:10:13.800 a hopeless economic situation,

00:10:16.140 a government that both sides

00:10:18.180 looted from the people

00:10:19.260 and, you know,

00:10:21.700 plenty of opportunities

00:10:22.660 for them to recruit,

00:10:26.440 which is usually under pressure,

00:10:28.200 young boys into the gang.

00:10:31.180 So that created the nexus

00:10:34.040 for there being a strong gang presence

00:10:37.280 and they just established themselves

00:10:38.600 so well there was never a government

00:10:40.220 that was strong enough

00:10:41.100 to really drive them out.

00:10:43.140 And they had their hands,

00:10:44.380 the Salvadoran governments

00:10:45.400 had their hands tied

00:10:46.240 by the United States

00:10:48.320 foreign policy apparatus.

00:10:50.220 So one of the conditions of U.S. aid

00:10:52.320 was that Salvador had to adopt

00:10:55.240 U.S.-style criminal justice policies.

00:10:58.360 One of them being that

00:10:59.720 if you were a minor,

00:11:00.740 you couldn't be held responsible

00:11:02.300 for a criminal act, right?

00:11:05.240 Well, you know,

00:11:07.280 when you're recruiting 12-

00:11:08.400 and 13-year-old boys

00:11:09.420 to do most of your hits,

00:11:10.700 and really that incentivized it, right,

00:11:15.440 to where they would just use

00:11:16.680 younger gang members

00:11:18.820 who were minors,

00:11:20.080 they would use them

00:11:20.740 to commit the worst crimes

00:11:22.020 so that they couldn't

00:11:23.960 be charged with it.

00:11:25.540 And there were a couple

00:11:27.040 of administrations

00:11:28.480 in the early 2000s

00:11:29.680 that had made attempts.

00:11:30.680 There was the

00:11:31.860 the Monodoro policies

00:11:34.560 of one of the Arena presidents

00:11:36.940 that for a time

00:11:38.620 seemed to reduce the violence,

00:11:40.560 but they

00:11:41.300 then the criminal justice system

00:11:43.960 just let most of these people

00:11:45.160 back on the streets.

00:11:46.100 So they arrested

00:11:46.620 a lot of gang members

00:11:47.500 enough to make a big dent

00:11:48.500 in the homicide rate.

00:11:49.860 But then they were,

00:11:51.240 you know,

00:11:51.980 essentially forced

00:11:53.240 by their constitutional system

00:11:55.100 to release them.

00:11:57.400 So it was this

00:11:59.240 long-simmering problem.

00:12:00.700 You had,

00:12:01.360 I think it was President

00:12:03.180 Mauricio Funes

00:12:04.660 who had actually made deals

00:12:06.260 with the gangs.

00:12:07.440 He was the,

00:12:09.140 he was an FMLN president

00:12:10.720 in the late 00s.

00:12:14.560 He made a deal

00:12:15.620 with the gangs

00:12:16.300 to reduce violence

00:12:18.160 in exchange

00:12:18.880 for kind of political support.

00:12:21.720 And,

00:12:21.980 you know,

00:12:22.940 I think at one point

00:12:24.980 some of the,

00:12:25.620 some of the other

00:12:26.440 FMLN politicians

00:12:27.660 were cutting deals

00:12:28.760 for the gangs

00:12:30.300 to provide votes.

00:12:33.220 We had a,

00:12:33.960 you know,

00:12:34.280 pretty,

00:12:34.620 pretty open display

00:12:38.040 of Latin American

00:12:40.720 leftist parties

00:12:42.000 liking to use

00:12:43.880 like criminals

00:12:44.620 as their street goods.

00:12:46.580 And it's becoming,

00:12:47.660 I think,

00:12:47.840 much more of a thing

00:12:48.540 in the United States now.

00:12:49.600 You saw in the last election

00:12:50.760 with the DNC

00:12:51.820 and,

00:12:52.400 you know,

00:12:52.800 Kamala Harris promoting

00:12:53.720 bail funds for rioters.

00:12:56.200 Yeah,

00:12:56.240 I was going to say,

00:12:56.920 oh,

00:12:57.020 thank God we don't see that

00:12:57.920 in the United States,

00:12:58.880 you know,

00:12:59.060 a civilized country.

00:12:59.900 So we have this,

00:13:01.660 you know,

00:13:01.900 we have basically

00:13:02.820 this diaspora

00:13:03.780 during the Civil War.

00:13:06.020 It creates,

00:13:07.400 interestingly enough,

00:13:08.420 a lot of these kids

00:13:09.160 come to the United States,

00:13:10.380 they get a taste

00:13:11.000 of the melting pot

00:13:12.000 and because of the way

00:13:14.140 that the public school system

00:13:15.800 functions here

00:13:16.700 and the racial divides,

00:13:18.100 they create this kind

00:13:19.460 of hostility,

00:13:20.340 form these gangs,

00:13:21.760 get an education

00:13:22.600 in more vicious tactics

00:13:24.380 from other gangs

00:13:25.280 and when they filter back

00:13:27.020 into El Salvador,

00:13:28.620 ironically,

00:13:29.460 they bring even more

00:13:30.580 of that violence

00:13:31.260 with them

00:13:31.880 and they then become

00:13:32.980 a dominant force

00:13:33.920 inside the country

00:13:34.980 because the politicians

00:13:36.580 aren't legally allowed

00:13:37.780 to deal with them

00:13:38.640 mainly because of

00:13:39.840 outside influences

00:13:41.180 like the United States

00:13:42.100 leaning on their

00:13:42.860 criminal justice system.

00:13:44.720 Obviously,

00:13:45.120 this is a mess

00:13:45.940 that sets El Salvador

00:13:47.000 up as basically

00:13:48.540 the murder capital

00:13:49.380 of the world

00:13:50.260 for a number of years.

00:13:52.040 So this is the situation

00:13:53.320 that Buckele's

00:13:54.480 stepping into

00:13:55.480 but as I understand,

00:13:57.160 he didn't begin

00:13:57.900 as some kind

00:13:58.760 of right-wing authoritarian

00:14:00.700 that many people

00:14:02.500 would hate him

00:14:03.380 and he actually starts

00:14:04.180 in left-wing politics.

00:14:06.140 So can you explain

00:14:07.380 how he came onto the scene?

00:14:09.840 Yeah,

00:14:10.080 so he started his career

00:14:13.100 in the FMLN,

00:14:14.620 which was the leftist party.

00:14:17.760 His father had been,

00:14:19.620 I think,

00:14:21.520 friendly with them

00:14:22.340 for much of the history

00:14:25.360 leading up to that.

00:14:29.220 It was,

00:14:29.600 I think it was kind of

00:14:31.140 a comfortable fit

00:14:32.140 as far as like the,

00:14:33.520 you know,

00:14:34.060 position that they were in

00:14:36.180 in Salvadoran society.

00:14:38.280 You know,

00:14:38.880 just the kind of people

00:14:39.920 who were in arena.

00:14:41.180 It's,

00:14:42.080 you know,

00:14:42.240 they wouldn't make

00:14:43.180 someone like Buckele

00:14:44.560 welcome among them.

00:14:45.980 Not a member of the

00:14:47.120 good old boys club.

00:14:48.200 kind of like,

00:14:49.680 it would be,

00:14:50.580 you know,

00:14:50.780 kind of like

00:14:51.400 if a new right person

00:14:53.100 tried to ingratiate themselves

00:14:55.760 in like the GOP

00:14:57.040 of the 90s,

00:14:58.340 you know,

00:14:58.580 like Pat Buchanan.

00:14:59.560 They just,

00:15:00.000 they spit you right out.

00:15:01.100 So,

00:15:02.900 he first ran

00:15:05.320 for mayor

00:15:06.240 of a small municipality

00:15:07.880 at Nuevo Cuscutlan

00:15:09.800 with the FMLN.

00:15:12.920 He was very popular there.

00:15:14.880 He governed his

00:15:15.840 kind of centrist,

00:15:18.000 you know,

00:15:19.400 programs like

00:15:20.520 cleaning up parks

00:15:22.480 and,

00:15:23.040 you know,

00:15:23.160 building new libraries

00:15:24.260 and a new municipal market

00:15:26.560 for,

00:15:27.280 you know,

00:15:28.980 food sellers and stuff

00:15:30.000 that would normally

00:15:30.520 be on the street.

00:15:32.560 And he was,

00:15:33.820 you know,

00:15:34.320 so popular there

00:15:35.360 that he was a,

00:15:37.420 been a plausible candidate

00:15:38.580 for the mayor

00:15:40.000 of the capital city,

00:15:42.920 San Salvador.

00:15:44.660 And so,

00:15:45.540 he ran in that election

00:15:46.600 and was wildly popular,

00:15:49.440 got in fairly easily

00:15:52.360 and,

00:15:52.720 you know,

00:15:53.160 also for being

00:15:53.900 really young.

00:15:55.400 I mean,

00:15:55.560 he's like 40,

00:15:56.620 right?

00:15:56.940 And this was

00:15:57.420 some years ago.

00:16:02.040 Yeah,

00:16:02.600 people just gravitated

00:16:03.620 to him.

00:16:03.960 He has a certain charisma

00:16:05.340 that he's just

00:16:07.580 has always connected

00:16:08.540 to voters

00:16:10.520 and citizens

00:16:11.240 and has been able

00:16:11.980 to like cut through

00:16:13.400 the left

00:16:14.260 and the right

00:16:14.960 and just deliver

00:16:15.880 a kind of

00:16:16.600 common sense,

00:16:18.880 you know,

00:16:21.140 somewhat of a

00:16:21.660 non-ideological

00:16:22.620 perspective,

00:16:23.500 right?

00:16:23.740 Just describing reality

00:16:25.040 as it was kind of

00:16:26.080 evident to everyone.

00:16:27.740 And as mayor

00:16:28.700 of San Salvador,

00:16:29.540 who was enormously popular,

00:16:31.820 carried out a number

00:16:33.160 of projects

00:16:35.900 that the people

00:16:37.500 of the city

00:16:37.980 just were really

00:16:38.880 appreciative for.

00:16:39.900 One was beginning

00:16:41.540 the revitalization

00:16:42.600 of the historic downtown.

00:16:44.140 So,

00:16:44.720 they have a historic

00:16:46.100 downtown area

00:16:47.040 that it's where,

00:16:49.520 you know,

00:16:50.120 the National Cathedral

00:16:51.060 is,

00:16:52.160 many of the

00:16:53.240 legislative buildings.

00:16:54.460 It would be like

00:16:55.000 the Federal Triangle

00:16:55.800 of Washington,

00:16:56.560 D.C.,

00:16:57.020 you know,

00:16:57.200 where your seat

00:16:58.160 of government is

00:16:59.020 and a lot

00:17:00.040 of beautiful

00:17:00.840 old architecture

00:17:02.080 from the period.

00:17:05.300 And it's like

00:17:05.800 a kind of classic

00:17:06.880 Spanish architecture,

00:17:08.380 really,

00:17:08.780 really nice.

00:17:10.980 But that area

00:17:11.740 was allowed

00:17:12.260 to fall into

00:17:12.900 horrible disrepair

00:17:14.040 for decades.

00:17:15.640 And the streets

00:17:17.460 had been taken over

00:17:18.460 by people

00:17:20.160 who had built

00:17:20.820 like these

00:17:21.500 plywood shanty

00:17:23.340 store type things.

00:17:25.320 So,

00:17:25.480 it felt like

00:17:26.020 you were in,

00:17:27.280 I don't know,

00:17:27.740 like a market

00:17:29.000 in Nairobi

00:17:29.660 or something.

00:17:30.400 Just this

00:17:31.100 completely chaotic

00:17:34.260 environment.

00:17:36.180 And it was also

00:17:36.600 extremely dangerous.

00:17:37.740 It was like,

00:17:38.120 it was where,

00:17:39.040 you know,

00:17:40.920 just the,

00:17:42.560 the most

00:17:45.720 hard-up people

00:17:46.660 would kind of

00:17:47.220 gather

00:17:47.600 and flock

00:17:49.840 to this area.

00:17:50.440 So,

00:17:50.620 he went in

00:17:51.000 and he cleaned

00:17:51.560 that out.

00:17:52.180 Like,

00:17:52.300 he restored

00:17:53.020 the concept

00:17:54.000 of sidewalks

00:17:55.020 and you could

00:17:55.640 drive down the road.

00:17:56.700 this kind

00:17:57.900 of stuff.

00:17:58.260 And so,

00:17:58.480 businesses started

00:17:59.520 coming back

00:18:00.120 to that.

00:18:00.580 And it's,

00:18:01.260 it's become

00:18:03.220 more and more

00:18:03.800 vitalized.

00:18:04.600 There's a,

00:18:06.360 the new

00:18:07.140 national library

00:18:08.040 is there.

00:18:08.960 It's gleaming

00:18:10.060 five-story building.

00:18:11.820 A lot of new

00:18:12.780 businesses

00:18:13.220 and restaurants

00:18:13.940 and other

00:18:14.700 projects are

00:18:15.400 coming in.

00:18:17.040 And,

00:18:17.840 so,

00:18:19.300 as mayor,

00:18:19.880 you know,

00:18:20.020 he was,

00:18:20.340 he was very

00:18:20.820 successful

00:18:21.380 and very

00:18:22.720 popular.

00:18:23.940 And historically,

00:18:25.360 the mayor

00:18:26.540 of El Salvador,

00:18:27.540 like,

00:18:27.740 that's the

00:18:28.280 best position

00:18:29.140 to launch

00:18:29.580 a campaign

00:18:29.980 for president.

00:18:32.100 And,

00:18:32.680 he ended up

00:18:34.300 getting into

00:18:34.780 a dispute

00:18:35.260 with his

00:18:35.820 own party.

00:18:36.840 He was

00:18:37.400 criticizing

00:18:38.080 party leadership,

00:18:40.820 their strategy,

00:18:42.200 a lot of

00:18:42.740 those things.

00:18:43.120 He was in

00:18:43.480 the FMLN

00:18:44.300 party,

00:18:44.760 but he wasn't

00:18:45.220 so much

00:18:45.580 of it.

00:18:46.060 and the

00:18:47.840 old guard

00:18:48.460 who ran

00:18:48.960 the party,

00:18:49.680 they began

00:18:50.960 to get nervous

00:18:51.620 because it

00:18:52.500 became evident

00:18:53.060 that they

00:18:53.680 couldn't control

00:18:54.200 this guy.

00:18:55.080 He was

00:18:55.320 enormously

00:18:55.720 popular,

00:18:56.760 very talented,

00:18:58.440 would be a

00:18:59.320 shoe-in for

00:18:59.980 the presidency

00:19:01.300 in the next

00:19:02.060 round,

00:19:02.560 but he

00:19:03.100 couldn't be

00:19:03.520 controlled

00:19:04.040 by the,

00:19:05.340 by the

00:19:06.020 party.

00:19:07.260 So,

00:19:07.980 that led

00:19:08.480 to him

00:19:09.040 being kicked

00:19:10.280 out of the

00:19:10.700 party.

00:19:12.100 Very

00:19:12.620 extraordinary

00:19:13.060 thing to

00:19:13.660 think of.

00:19:14.400 If you

00:19:15.040 have,

00:19:15.320 like,

00:19:15.440 your leading

00:19:15.880 presidential

00:19:16.400 candidate,

00:19:17.300 you're almost

00:19:17.800 assured to

00:19:18.600 take the

00:19:19.360 presidency of

00:19:19.920 a country,

00:19:20.480 but you

00:19:20.760 kick the

00:19:21.080 person out

00:19:21.560 of the

00:19:21.760 party because

00:19:22.360 they're too

00:19:22.940 independent.

00:19:24.520 That scares

00:19:25.360 you.

00:19:26.840 Not that hard

00:19:27.360 to imagine,

00:19:27.980 actually,

00:19:28.340 given our

00:19:29.020 current

00:19:29.280 country.

00:19:30.420 You see a

00:19:35.420 lot of

00:19:35.680 parallels,

00:19:36.240 actually,

00:19:36.520 between our

00:19:36.880 own system

00:19:37.360 and theirs.

00:19:38.260 Theirs is

00:19:38.900 just a little

00:19:39.260 more open.

00:19:40.360 But when

00:19:42.280 President

00:19:43.420 Bukele,

00:19:44.280 or then

00:19:44.700 Mayor

00:19:44.940 Bukele,

00:19:45.420 announced

00:19:46.540 that he

00:19:46.820 was going

00:19:47.040 to run

00:19:47.260 for

00:19:47.440 president,

00:19:49.340 he started

00:19:50.900 a new

00:19:51.240 party,

00:19:52.160 the

00:19:52.440 Nuevas

00:19:52.980 Ideas

00:19:53.440 Party,

00:19:53.900 new

00:19:54.120 ideas,

00:19:55.260 that was

00:19:57.000 neither

00:19:57.380 left nor

00:19:59.620 right in

00:20:00.200 terms of

00:20:00.880 ideology.

00:20:01.500 You would

00:20:01.900 describe it

00:20:02.380 as more

00:20:02.800 of a

00:20:03.580 technocratic,

00:20:05.120 just a

00:20:05.780 common sense

00:20:07.320 centrist

00:20:07.840 approach,

00:20:09.140 focusing on

00:20:11.300 what works

00:20:12.680 more so

00:20:13.660 than

00:20:13.840 dogma.

00:20:16.840 And not

00:20:17.520 really tied

00:20:18.020 to historical

00:20:18.900 ideological

00:20:19.920 figures or

00:20:20.900 traditions,

00:20:21.800 this sort

00:20:22.080 of thing.

00:20:22.360 It was

00:20:22.460 just new

00:20:23.500 ideas.

00:20:24.100 That's

00:20:24.280 the basis

00:20:25.200 of the

00:20:25.560 party.

00:20:27.780 That party

00:20:28.700 was disqualified

00:20:29.500 by the

00:20:30.480 Supreme

00:20:31.140 Court for

00:20:32.800 elections.

00:20:33.680 They have a

00:20:34.440 special court

00:20:35.200 that's just

00:20:36.500 if we had

00:20:37.040 a Supreme

00:20:37.400 Court,

00:20:37.800 but if

00:20:38.060 they only

00:20:38.620 dealt with

00:20:39.200 election

00:20:39.660 matters.

00:20:41.560 Brazil has

00:20:42.440 something similar.

00:20:43.560 I was going

00:20:43.860 to say,

00:20:44.080 yeah.

00:20:45.140 And that

00:20:46.700 court

00:20:47.100 disqualified

00:20:48.000 his party

00:20:48.720 from being

00:20:49.140 able to

00:20:49.520 compete in

00:20:49.920 the election,

00:20:50.560 even though

00:20:51.060 it met

00:20:51.500 the statutory

00:20:52.180 requirements to

00:20:53.360 become a

00:20:53.840 party in the

00:20:54.240 election.

00:20:55.780 So then

00:20:56.640 he goes to

00:20:58.420 this small

00:20:59.360 center-left

00:21:00.520 party that

00:21:01.280 had been

00:21:01.580 part of the

00:21:02.060 coalition that

00:21:02.660 had supported

00:21:03.180 him when he

00:21:03.620 ran for

00:21:03.980 mayor and

00:21:05.520 worked out a

00:21:06.060 deal with

00:21:06.400 them to

00:21:07.340 become their

00:21:08.320 candidate because

00:21:09.880 they had

00:21:10.320 ballot access.

00:21:11.600 It would be

00:21:11.900 kind of like

00:21:12.440 if you were,

00:21:13.960 you know,

00:21:14.940 if you tried to

00:21:15.540 start a new

00:21:15.940 party in

00:21:16.280 America,

00:21:16.660 you were

00:21:17.040 disqualified

00:21:17.600 from being

00:21:18.260 able to run

00:21:18.740 on our

00:21:19.020 ballot and

00:21:19.380 you went

00:21:19.760 with the

00:21:20.300 libertarians

00:21:21.000 and was

00:21:21.960 like,

00:21:22.140 you know,

00:21:22.320 nominate me,

00:21:23.020 I'll run on,

00:21:23.760 I'll be your

00:21:24.460 standard bearer.

00:21:26.120 So he does

00:21:26.920 this,

00:21:27.440 but the night

00:21:28.380 before the

00:21:29.280 filing deadline,

00:21:32.420 the Supreme

00:21:32.900 Court for

00:21:34.000 elections meets

00:21:35.040 in private,

00:21:35.640 and decides

00:21:38.520 among themselves

00:21:39.260 and the

00:21:39.620 court was

00:21:40.000 made up of

00:21:40.740 the old

00:21:42.020 right-wing and

00:21:42.720 left-wing

00:21:43.080 parties,

00:21:43.900 so FMLN

00:21:44.660 and Arena.

00:21:45.680 Their judges

00:21:46.260 get together

00:21:46.940 and decide to

00:21:48.080 disqualify this

00:21:49.040 party,

00:21:50.300 even though it

00:21:51.700 qualified in

00:21:53.500 previous elections,

00:21:55.820 several previous

00:21:56.480 elections,

00:21:57.180 and, you know,

00:21:58.520 met the

00:21:58.940 qualifications to

00:22:00.360 qualify for that

00:22:01.800 one too.

00:22:02.160 they met

00:22:05.020 around 7

00:22:05.620 p.m.,

00:22:06.220 started the

00:22:07.200 discussions.

00:22:08.680 By 9 p.m.,

00:22:10.240 though,

00:22:10.540 someone there

00:22:11.420 had leaked

00:22:12.000 to Bukele's

00:22:13.100 camp what was

00:22:13.660 going on.

00:22:16.080 So Bukele

00:22:16.740 then,

00:22:18.720 you know,

00:22:19.100 midnight is the

00:22:19.840 deadline.

00:22:20.940 It was around

00:22:21.500 11.30.

00:22:22.480 He changes

00:22:23.240 his party

00:22:24.600 in the space

00:22:26.740 of a couple

00:22:27.080 hours,

00:22:27.460 had worked

00:22:27.780 out a deal

00:22:28.200 with a

00:22:28.540 different party,

00:22:29.240 a center-right

00:22:29.840 party who

00:22:30.360 also qualified

00:22:31.160 for the

00:22:31.540 ballot,

00:22:32.200 to become

00:22:33.360 their nominee.

00:22:35.860 And so he

00:22:36.420 changes it,

00:22:37.160 changes the

00:22:37.680 paperwork,

00:22:38.580 but waits

00:22:39.700 until the

00:22:40.240 judges have

00:22:40.880 announced that

00:22:41.820 he was

00:22:42.160 disqualified,

00:22:43.460 which they

00:22:43.880 did in a

00:22:44.260 press conference

00:22:44.820 the next day.

00:22:45.980 He was

00:22:46.200 disqualified

00:22:46.600 because he's

00:22:47.200 running on

00:22:47.760 this center-left

00:22:48.720 party line

00:22:49.880 to then reveal,

00:22:51.640 no, actually,

00:22:52.140 I'm running on

00:22:52.640 the center-right

00:22:53.300 party line,

00:22:54.100 and you didn't

00:22:54.640 disqualify that

00:22:55.800 party.

00:22:56.340 So, you

00:22:57.060 know,

00:22:57.220 see you in

00:22:57.680 November,

00:22:58.120 boys.

00:22:58.340 That's a

00:23:02.580 very under-reported

00:23:03.440 aspect, too.

00:23:04.240 Like, you

00:23:04.480 hear very

00:23:05.620 little of

00:23:06.060 this, you

00:23:07.680 know, even

00:23:08.000 from guys

00:23:09.380 on our

00:23:09.680 side.

00:23:09.980 I didn't

00:23:10.520 uncover

00:23:10.980 that much

00:23:12.840 of the

00:23:13.040 commentary

00:23:13.420 that I

00:23:13.800 had read.

00:23:14.600 It was

00:23:15.140 details like

00:23:15.780 that that

00:23:16.200 in part

00:23:16.580 was what

00:23:17.100 motivated me

00:23:17.800 to write

00:23:18.280 the story

00:23:20.200 I did

00:23:20.600 because I

00:23:20.900 wanted to

00:23:21.320 get the

00:23:21.820 full picture

00:23:22.440 and show

00:23:23.480 that, you

00:23:24.100 know, this

00:23:24.340 guy didn't

00:23:24.720 just walk

00:23:25.180 into the

00:23:25.460 presidency.

00:23:25.880 He had

00:23:26.560 to out

00:23:27.340 maneuver

00:23:27.700 and wheel

00:23:28.380 and deal

00:23:28.700 his way

00:23:29.080 into it.

00:23:30.580 Yeah, I

00:23:30.720 think that's

00:23:31.080 a theme

00:23:31.480 that is

00:23:32.460 really important

00:23:33.220 because, like

00:23:33.680 you said,

00:23:34.060 whether you're

00:23:34.420 looking at

00:23:35.020 Bolsonaro in

00:23:36.120 Brazil or

00:23:36.780 Trump here

00:23:37.300 in the

00:23:37.520 United States,

00:23:39.020 we have a

00:23:39.780 consistent theme

00:23:41.000 of these

00:23:42.140 outsiders,

00:23:43.440 you know,

00:23:43.900 well-liked but

00:23:44.680 maybe not

00:23:45.660 inside the

00:23:47.000 normal political

00:23:47.740 framework.

00:23:49.100 They're

00:23:49.620 promising, you

00:23:50.660 know, to

00:23:50.940 bring something

00:23:51.660 that the

00:23:52.180 establishment

00:23:52.720 doesn't want

00:23:53.780 to play

00:23:54.480 a game

00:23:54.840 that's not

00:23:55.700 approved and

00:23:56.620 you have

00:23:57.300 basically the

00:23:58.240 entire system

00:23:59.160 working endlessly

00:24:00.340 while talking

00:24:01.000 about the

00:24:01.460 importance of

00:24:01.960 democracy to

00:24:03.020 make sure that

00:24:03.420 these people,

00:24:04.420 it's impossible

00:24:05.160 for them to

00:24:06.360 run at every

00:24:07.080 turn and it

00:24:08.520 seems like we're

00:24:09.480 seeing that

00:24:10.520 play out not

00:24:11.180 just in the

00:24:12.080 courts but in

00:24:13.000 the media and

00:24:14.140 so I think

00:24:15.260 you're exactly

00:24:15.880 right to say

00:24:16.420 that it's

00:24:16.820 critical people

00:24:17.460 understand kind

00:24:18.580 of the lengths

00:24:19.120 he had to go

00:24:20.000 to just to

00:24:20.700 put himself on

00:24:21.740 a ticket where

00:24:22.560 he would have

00:24:23.080 the opportunity

00:24:23.720 to make the

00:24:24.400 case for what

00:24:25.560 he ended up

00:24:26.020 doing.

00:24:26.380 So you've

00:24:26.780 always been

00:24:27.220 picky about

00:24:27.700 your produce

00:24:28.220 but now you

00:24:29.380 find yourself

00:24:29.900 checking every

00:24:30.520 label to make

00:24:31.180 sure it's

00:24:31.800 Canadian.

00:24:32.860 So be it.

00:24:34.140 At Sobeez we

00:24:35.140 always pick

00:24:35.760 guaranteed fresh

00:24:36.600 Canadian produce

00:24:37.420 first.

00:24:38.180 Restrictions

00:24:38.620 apply.

00:24:39.140 See in-store or

00:24:39.920 online for

00:24:40.460 details.

00:24:45.900 Yeah,

00:24:46.460 absolutely.

00:24:47.040 And then,

00:24:47.460 you know,

00:24:47.760 once he gets

00:24:48.320 in, it wasn't

00:24:49.940 overnight that he

00:24:51.080 was able to

00:24:52.000 get control of

00:24:53.920 the problem.

00:24:54.460 You know,

00:24:54.580 there was a

00:24:55.360 plan, the

00:24:57.800 territorial control

00:24:58.740 plan, and,

00:25:00.980 you know,

00:25:01.660 it has several

00:25:02.900 distinct phases.

00:25:04.600 And so they

00:25:05.020 were, you know,

00:25:05.500 they were really

00:25:06.180 doing everything.

00:25:07.100 It wasn't just a

00:25:08.180 law enforcement

00:25:09.140 only kind of

00:25:11.180 approach.

00:25:11.760 There was also,

00:25:12.940 you know,

00:25:13.160 trying to, you

00:25:16.060 know, divert kids

00:25:16.960 from joining the

00:25:17.680 gangs in the

00:25:18.220 first place.

00:25:18.860 that's one of

00:25:19.940 the things

00:25:20.360 that, you

00:25:21.740 know, a lot

00:25:22.000 of his

00:25:22.300 detractors have

00:25:23.340 said, well,

00:25:24.100 you know,

00:25:24.320 there's these

00:25:24.920 other more

00:25:25.740 systemic issues

00:25:26.660 that need to

00:25:27.140 be addressed,

00:25:27.780 and that's how

00:25:28.380 you fight

00:25:28.760 crime.

00:25:29.980 But he

00:25:30.520 didn't neglect

00:25:31.160 those, you

00:25:32.640 know, the

00:25:32.960 schools and

00:25:33.800 education kind

00:25:34.580 of approach

00:25:35.000 that, like,

00:25:35.380 the Colombian

00:25:35.940 president has

00:25:36.780 told him he

00:25:37.420 should follow

00:25:38.160 instead.

00:25:39.100 It's just that

00:25:40.000 he didn't also

00:25:40.680 wait for those

00:25:41.380 to pay off

00:25:41.880 30 years.

00:25:42.480 He recognized

00:25:43.060 that the

00:25:43.420 situation as it

00:25:44.400 was, was

00:25:45.300 incredibly violent.

00:25:46.500 you know,

00:25:48.040 El Salvador

00:25:48.340 having the

00:25:48.780 highest homicide

00:25:49.300 rate in the

00:25:49.720 country, in

00:25:50.300 the world.

00:25:52.700 Now it's the

00:25:53.540 lowest in the

00:25:54.360 Western Hemisphere.

00:25:55.360 It's on par

00:25:56.240 with Luxembourg.

00:26:00.600 But for that

00:26:01.500 to happen, it

00:26:02.240 wasn't just, it

00:26:03.360 wasn't quite as

00:26:04.080 simple as I've

00:26:05.140 seen some people

00:26:05.700 say.

00:26:06.020 It's like, well,

00:26:06.400 you just go and

00:26:07.040 arrest the

00:26:07.460 criminals.

00:26:07.980 It's like, well,

00:26:08.400 okay, but how

00:26:08.880 do you do

00:26:09.180 that?

00:26:10.320 One of the

00:26:10.940 steps they had

00:26:11.460 to take that

00:26:12.040 was really key

00:26:12.660 was to make

00:26:14.320 sure that the

00:26:15.100 gang leaders who

00:26:16.000 were already

00:26:16.540 in prison

00:26:17.060 were not

00:26:17.460 able to

00:26:17.800 give the

00:26:18.200 orders to

00:26:18.980 start carrying

00:26:19.740 out terrorist

00:26:20.500 attacks and

00:26:22.080 like shopping

00:26:22.740 malls and

00:26:23.580 public streets

00:26:25.160 and this sort

00:26:25.680 of thing.

00:26:26.020 And they had

00:26:26.380 done that.

00:26:27.180 And actually

00:26:29.020 in, I think

00:26:29.860 it was March

00:26:32.260 or April of

00:26:32.960 2021, very

00:26:35.520 violent day.

00:26:37.840 Some buses

00:26:38.700 were burned.

00:26:40.060 I think over

00:26:40.460 60 people were

00:26:41.320 killed there in

00:26:42.580 the Capitol.

00:26:43.180 It was just

00:26:43.540 this sudden

00:26:44.160 spasm of

00:26:47.140 violence and

00:26:48.360 bloodshed from

00:26:49.100 MS-13.

00:26:51.140 That was, I

00:26:52.700 think, intended

00:26:53.380 to send a

00:26:54.120 message to

00:26:56.420 the Bukele

00:26:57.960 administration,

00:26:59.060 you know,

00:26:59.240 stop pressuring

00:26:59.960 us, stop

00:27:00.740 putting this

00:27:01.420 pressure on

00:27:02.320 us.

00:27:02.700 Like they

00:27:02.940 wanted, I

00:27:04.100 think, to

00:27:04.660 scare Bukele

00:27:06.280 back into

00:27:07.280 the old

00:27:09.720 status quo.

00:27:11.780 And instead,

00:27:13.920 Bukele orders,

00:27:15.220 okay, if you

00:27:17.260 do this

00:27:17.740 outside, your

00:27:18.900 homeboys on

00:27:19.580 the inside are

00:27:20.400 going to

00:27:20.660 suffer.

00:27:21.760 So we've

00:27:23.360 cut the

00:27:23.740 rations, you

00:27:25.260 know, and the

00:27:26.100 more people you

00:27:26.860 kill, the less

00:27:28.140 we're going to

00:27:28.620 feed the

00:27:29.720 prisoners.

00:27:31.040 Is that I'm

00:27:31.660 not going to

00:27:32.020 take the food

00:27:32.780 out of the

00:27:33.140 mouths of

00:27:33.520 schoolchildren,

00:27:34.140 you know, to

00:27:35.720 give it to

00:27:36.420 criminals?

00:27:36.960 Because someone

00:27:37.300 was saying,

00:27:37.760 well, it's

00:27:38.480 inhuman, one

00:27:39.240 of the

00:27:39.600 international,

00:27:40.240 several of

00:27:40.600 the international

00:27:41.040 human rights

00:27:41.780 agencies were

00:27:42.920 saying that it

00:27:43.520 was inhumane to

00:27:44.480 feed prisoners

00:27:45.400 meals of rice

00:27:46.880 and beans.

00:27:48.020 And they were

00:27:48.300 like, where's

00:27:48.740 the protein?

00:27:49.920 So the only

00:27:50.460 time these people

00:27:51.200 actually want

00:27:52.160 you to consume

00:27:52.780 meat is if

00:27:53.380 you're a

00:27:54.320 murderer.

00:27:57.520 They, yeah,

00:27:58.460 they failed to

00:27:58.980 appreciate the

00:27:59.900 enforced

00:28:00.760 vegetarianism.

00:28:02.980 But the,

00:28:03.760 you know,

00:28:04.480 Begele's

00:28:04.840 perspective was

00:28:05.720 like, look,

00:28:06.340 if the kids

00:28:07.440 in schools are

00:28:08.140 eating rice and

00:28:08.760 beans, right,

00:28:10.060 like if we

00:28:10.480 can't afford to

00:28:11.060 feed them

00:28:11.400 better than

00:28:11.780 that, why

00:28:12.280 would we

00:28:12.600 feed the

00:28:13.220 prisoners better

00:28:13.840 than the

00:28:14.160 children?

00:28:15.660 And that's

00:28:16.280 been a theme

00:28:16.720 of his

00:28:17.000 administration

00:28:17.620 is the

00:28:18.040 priorities.

00:28:18.820 It's like,

00:28:19.440 who do you,

00:28:20.120 who am I

00:28:20.900 elected to

00:28:21.540 serve?

00:28:22.360 You know,

00:28:22.520 like who do

00:28:23.000 you have

00:28:23.340 compassion for?

00:28:25.220 And so many

00:28:26.220 of the people

00:28:26.780 who've

00:28:27.080 criticized his

00:28:27.980 approach, you

00:28:28.800 know, they

00:28:28.980 say, well,

00:28:29.360 you put all

00:28:30.160 these people in

00:28:30.720 jail.

00:28:31.860 They're failing

00:28:32.640 to appreciate

00:28:33.760 that the

00:28:36.620 entire country

00:28:37.380 of El

00:28:37.720 Salvador was

00:28:38.480 a prison.

00:28:40.780 You know,

00:28:40.920 they were,

00:28:42.420 people couldn't

00:28:43.260 leave their

00:28:43.620 neighborhoods

00:28:44.060 because of

00:28:46.900 extortion,

00:28:47.660 because of

00:28:48.020 violence.

00:28:48.560 people I've

00:28:51.620 met there

00:28:52.000 that they

00:28:52.440 had barely

00:28:52.880 saw the

00:28:53.420 outside of

00:28:53.940 their house

00:28:54.380 as children

00:28:54.880 because their

00:28:55.980 moms kept

00:28:56.700 them inside

00:28:57.320 and homeschooled

00:28:58.340 them.

00:28:59.160 Nobody, like,

00:29:00.360 didn't even,

00:29:00.820 like, want

00:29:01.780 them to go

00:29:02.140 out into the

00:29:02.720 street.

00:29:03.800 You know,

00:29:04.020 that's a

00:29:04.340 prison situation.

00:29:05.340 That's a,

00:29:05.840 that's a,

00:29:07.760 a, you know,

00:29:09.580 it's not a

00:29:10.220 formal state

00:29:10.920 prison, but

00:29:11.680 if your

00:29:12.840 society is so

00:29:13.800 violent and

00:29:14.540 there's extortion

00:29:15.260 and people

00:29:16.680 trying to recruit

00:29:17.500 your children

00:29:18.440 and the

00:29:18.760 gangs and

00:29:19.320 all this

00:29:20.360 kind of

00:29:20.660 stuff,

00:29:20.960 it's

00:29:21.100 functionally,

00:29:21.860 you know,

00:29:22.320 millions of

00:29:22.880 people were

00:29:23.300 living in a

00:29:23.980 big open

00:29:24.560 air prison.

00:29:26.100 And that

00:29:26.820 is, that

00:29:27.480 is what has

00:29:28.240 been the,

00:29:28.800 the biggest

00:29:30.740 noticeable change

00:29:31.900 is just how

00:29:32.820 full the

00:29:33.720 streets are

00:29:34.300 and how,

00:29:34.880 like, the

00:29:35.220 parks have

00:29:36.120 these families

00:29:36.860 walking around,

00:29:38.440 you know,

00:29:38.900 sometimes late

00:29:39.660 at night and

00:29:40.320 just, there's

00:29:41.500 this tremendous

00:29:42.100 sense of freedom

00:29:42.940 that people are

00:29:43.580 experiencing now

00:29:44.600 because for the

00:29:46.180 first time and

00:29:47.040 most of their

00:29:47.700 lives, they're

00:29:48.560 able to go

00:29:49.340 out into

00:29:49.720 public and

00:29:50.320 have a

00:29:50.780 normal civic

00:29:52.220 life, you

00:29:55.300 know, because

00:29:55.600 it's safe.

00:29:56.360 It's, it's

00:29:56.920 just unlocked

00:29:57.520 the key to

00:29:58.180 so much and

00:29:58.820 people can

00:29:59.500 build businesses,

00:30:01.100 expand businesses,

00:30:02.300 not have to

00:30:03.180 worry about

00:30:03.800 30% of the,

00:30:05.420 the daily

00:30:07.060 take having to

00:30:07.920 go to, you

00:30:08.980 know, the

00:30:09.280 extortionist.

00:30:11.020 Used to be

00:30:11.800 that, like,

00:30:13.260 if your bus

00:30:14.200 driver didn't

00:30:15.480 pay the

00:30:15.840 extortion fee

00:30:16.440 to the

00:30:16.660 gangs, they

00:30:17.400 might shoot

00:30:19.880 everyone on

00:30:20.480 the bus or

00:30:21.200 just set the

00:30:21.740 bus on fire

00:30:22.400 and lock you

00:30:22.920 in it.

00:30:24.480 It was just

00:30:25.200 horrible brutality

00:30:26.940 and violence

00:30:27.660 and terrorism.

00:30:29.340 You know,

00:30:29.460 these, these

00:30:30.020 people lived in

00:30:31.040 this constant

00:30:31.780 state of fear

00:30:32.480 and now that

00:30:33.320 they've been

00:30:33.780 freed from

00:30:34.300 that, you

00:30:34.740 have this

00:30:35.300 country now

00:30:36.680 that it's

00:30:37.860 just, it's

00:30:38.200 a great

00:30:38.680 flourishing,

00:30:39.600 like, there's

00:30:40.060 this, this

00:30:41.880 outburst of

00:30:42.500 energy.

00:30:42.880 new sports

00:30:45.120 are, are

00:30:46.260 becoming popular,

00:30:47.000 like, a lot

00:30:47.540 of people are

00:30:48.060 taking up road

00:30:48.760 biking, so

00:30:49.920 you'll see, like,

00:30:50.420 these just big

00:30:51.280 packs of bikers

00:30:52.180 going through

00:30:52.540 the cities.

00:30:55.220 You know, the,

00:30:56.180 the skateboard

00:30:57.440 culture has

00:30:58.700 started to pop

00:30:59.640 up in San

00:31:00.960 Salvador with,

00:31:01.740 like, tons of

00:31:02.540 kids out skating,

00:31:03.560 going to skate

00:31:04.040 parks, reminiscent

00:31:05.880 of, like, you

00:31:07.260 know, 1990s

00:31:08.220 America.

00:31:10.420 You know, in

00:31:11.200 general, you

00:31:11.840 see a much

00:31:12.440 more, much

00:31:13.860 more involvement

00:31:14.480 in the public,

00:31:15.320 public spaces

00:31:17.320 there than

00:31:18.580 here in the

00:31:20.140 States, where I

00:31:20.820 feel like we're

00:31:22.420 already adopting,

00:31:23.260 like, some form

00:31:24.240 of this, what I

00:31:26.360 saw in Brazil,

00:31:27.120 where, you

00:31:27.840 know, people kind

00:31:28.640 of avoid public

00:31:29.360 spaces because you

00:31:31.160 could either be

00:31:31.720 menaced by someone

00:31:32.740 who was mentally

00:31:33.260 ill or mugged.

00:31:36.620 You know, at least

00:31:37.500 in our, our

00:31:38.340 cities with

00:31:39.120 higher crime

00:31:39.720 rates, there's

00:31:40.220 just this kind

00:31:41.060 of bunker

00:31:41.480 mentality that I

00:31:42.600 I've noticed in

00:31:43.480 the States, just

00:31:44.080 people just want

00:31:44.680 to stay in their

00:31:45.660 houses or, like,

00:31:47.100 drive to specific,

00:31:48.280 you know, stores

00:31:50.120 and strip malls

00:31:50.800 and stuff, but

00:31:51.300 there's, I think

00:31:53.100 there's been a

00:31:53.540 real decline in,

00:31:54.600 you know, people

00:31:55.860 just being out in

00:31:56.540 public spaces here,

00:31:57.880 but then there,

00:31:58.620 it's like, it's

00:32:00.260 really heartening

00:32:01.260 to see.

00:32:02.300 And it's really

00:32:03.200 nice to be around

00:32:03.960 and be a part of.

00:32:05.000 Well, of course,

00:32:05.760 you would expect

00:32:06.960 exactly that.

00:32:07.940 You have this

00:32:08.460 incredible transformation

00:32:09.820 once people don't

00:32:10.940 have to constantly

00:32:12.060 live in fear of

00:32:13.020 every interaction.

00:32:13.820 And it's amazing

00:32:14.660 that, you know,

00:32:16.100 we managed to come

00:32:16.940 up with just

00:32:17.400 infinite number of

00:32:18.360 reasons that we

00:32:19.320 have to live like

00:32:20.340 this.

00:32:20.640 There are all

00:32:20.920 these excuses

00:32:21.680 about, you know,

00:32:22.780 the infinite number

00:32:23.720 of rights that are

00:32:24.680 attributed to

00:32:25.780 horrific people who

00:32:26.840 are just absolutely

00:32:28.200 devastating the

00:32:29.040 community, making

00:32:29.720 it impossible for

00:32:30.480 average people to

00:32:31.360 live.

00:32:31.820 And those average

00:32:32.320 people have none

00:32:33.240 of these rights.

00:32:33.840 None of them are

00:32:34.460 apparently afforded to

00:32:35.380 them.

00:32:35.580 their well-being is

00:32:36.740 unimportant because

00:32:37.900 somewhere, you know,

00:32:39.120 some Amnesty

00:32:40.280 International, some

00:32:41.100 other organization

00:32:41.900 says, no, you can't

00:32:42.900 lock these people

00:32:43.740 away.

00:32:44.340 And I want to talk

00:32:45.320 about a couple

00:32:45.720 aspects of that.

00:32:46.740 I mean, the first

00:32:47.240 one would be, I

00:32:48.660 imagine in a

00:32:49.420 situation like this,

00:32:51.000 he faced a lot of

00:32:52.240 pushback in perhaps

00:32:54.280 the police or the

00:32:55.740 military because often

00:32:57.440 in these situations,

00:32:58.720 those organizations

00:32:59.320 are already

00:33:00.680 infiltrated or, you

00:33:02.520 know, cowed by the

00:33:03.840 gangs and so you

00:33:05.280 would think that

00:33:05.800 there's going to

00:33:06.440 see a lot of

00:33:06.900 pushback there.

00:33:08.120 Also, like you

00:33:08.560 said, he had to

00:33:09.120 apply this across

00:33:10.600 the board.

00:33:11.280 It wasn't just the

00:33:12.060 military, it wasn't

00:33:12.580 just the law

00:33:13.080 enforcement aspect.

00:33:14.360 It was addressing

00:33:14.920 education system and

00:33:16.100 all of that.

00:33:17.120 And so I also

00:33:17.900 wonder, you know,

00:33:18.680 was that due to

00:33:19.640 his ability to kind

00:33:20.420 of wield executive

00:33:21.380 power?

00:33:22.120 Did he have a

00:33:22.900 coalition that he

00:33:24.320 had built inside

00:33:25.100 the legislature?

00:33:26.040 What allowed him to

00:33:27.460 make this dynamic

00:33:28.460 change and break out

00:33:30.260 of a system that was

00:33:31.160 so deeply entrenched?

00:33:32.780 He can't just have

00:33:33.860 been attaining the

00:33:35.160 executive office.

00:33:36.080 So what allowed him

00:33:37.380 to make these big

00:33:38.080 changes?

00:33:39.380 Well, part of it is

00:33:40.660 just enormous personal

00:33:42.560 popularity.

00:33:44.300 So many of the

00:33:45.560 people, including

00:33:47.460 people in government,

00:33:48.980 bought into his

00:33:50.220 message.

00:33:51.800 Like, imagine if,

00:33:53.760 like, your government

00:33:55.100 employees down to the

00:33:56.420 level of, like,

00:33:57.180 someone who works at

00:33:57.860 the DMV were really

00:33:59.880 inspired by President

00:34:01.760 Trump's urging to,

00:34:05.220 you know, make

00:34:06.040 America great again.

00:34:07.600 Like, if you had the

00:34:08.940 administrative state,

00:34:10.280 if you had, like, a

00:34:10.900 large swath of it,

00:34:12.480 enthusiastic and on

00:34:13.720 board with the idea of

00:34:14.820 revitalizing the

00:34:15.580 country.

00:34:17.620 That's part of it, a big

00:34:19.280 part of it.

00:34:19.640 Another part of it,

00:34:20.340 though, was, you know,

00:34:21.840 recognized early on that

00:34:23.420 one of the main, one of

00:34:25.280 the big problems that

00:34:26.180 Latin American countries

00:34:27.180 have experienced in

00:34:28.200 policing is that they're

00:34:30.440 very poor countries.

00:34:33.180 They're not bringing in

00:34:34.280 a lot of money, and a

00:34:36.660 lot of the money that

00:34:37.460 they are bringing in

00:34:38.300 gets siphoned off because

00:34:39.420 of corruption.

00:34:41.420 You know, Bukele's

00:34:42.400 slogan when he ran for

00:34:44.320 president was, there's

00:34:45.660 enough money when no one

00:34:46.740 steals.

00:34:48.920 And that was to

00:34:49.700 highlight the corruption

00:34:50.720 in both of the current

00:34:53.100 parties.

00:34:53.580 And, you know, send a

00:34:56.620 message, like, we can

00:34:57.900 have good services, we

00:35:01.380 just, we have to cut the

00:35:02.420 fat, and we have to spend

00:35:04.360 on what matters.

00:35:05.820 So, one of the early

00:35:07.320 things he did, though, was

00:35:08.280 to give a big raise to the

00:35:11.220 national police.

00:35:13.140 And so, one of the, like

00:35:14.180 I said, one of the

00:35:14.720 problems with Latin

00:35:15.800 American policing is that

00:35:17.280 there's not that much

00:35:18.800 spent on the salaries.

00:35:19.880 The salaries of a cop in

00:35:21.760 Brazil, Colombia,

00:35:23.580 Mexico, many of these

00:35:25.600 places, it's not enough to

00:35:26.960 really live, you know, like

00:35:31.340 any kind of worthwhile

00:35:33.860 life in exchange for the

00:35:35.240 risk that you're taking

00:35:36.020 on.

00:35:36.420 You know, it's much more

00:35:37.100 dangerous to be a cop in

00:35:38.320 any of these countries, and

00:35:40.500 you're paid much less than

00:35:41.720 an American cop.

00:35:43.400 So, by giving a strong

00:35:46.580 raise to the, to law

00:35:49.080 enforcement, it was a sign

00:35:51.780 that, you know, I've got

00:35:52.940 your back.

00:35:54.060 I see what you're doing, and

00:35:55.760 I appreciate it, and we're

00:35:57.440 going to support you.

00:35:58.960 We're not, you know, we're

00:35:59.680 going to, you know, put you

00:36:02.220 in a position to where you

00:36:03.100 can provide for your family,

00:36:04.260 and, you know, in exchange for

00:36:07.640 that, people were willing to

00:36:08.620 take on the risk, because it's,

00:36:09.840 it's, it is a huge risk to go

00:36:11.340 after these, these criminals.

00:36:14.580 But, you know, they, they had

00:36:17.920 good spirit already, and, you

00:36:21.220 know, you add someone who comes

00:36:23.260 in and who's genuinely

00:36:24.220 appreciative and supportive.

00:36:26.380 I think the large swaths of law

00:36:29.240 enforcement, they just really

00:36:30.720 felt like, you know, Bukele was

00:36:33.480 sincere, had their back, and

00:36:35.440 they believed in the mission.

00:36:36.920 And he, you know, he would speak

00:36:39.480 to them in these speeches.

00:36:41.600 You can see some of the videos

00:36:44.600 online that's been posted,

00:36:46.580 speaking in very explicitly

00:36:48.960 spiritual tones, right?

00:36:53.500 It's not about, okay, we just

00:36:54.780 want to make a, you know, I want

00:36:56.380 to do good government, want to do

00:36:57.540 this, want to do that.

00:36:58.300 He framed it as a battle of good

00:37:00.620 versus evil, and how we are

00:37:03.140 blessed to be instruments of

00:37:04.500 God's will, and that's how we

00:37:06.320 should see ourselves, as

00:37:07.480 instruments of God's will.

00:37:09.480 And that we have, you know, so

00:37:11.480 he imbued the mission with this

00:37:13.880 sense of holiness, and, you

00:37:16.220 know, in a sense, like it was a

00:37:17.620 crusade.

00:37:19.460 And that, I think, is another

00:37:21.460 another key factor in why you

00:37:23.960 can't just replicate this with a

00:37:29.320 copy-paste function, because you

00:37:31.280 have to have someone who is, you

00:37:33.620 know, sincere in their belief, and

00:37:35.100 you have to have a population who

00:37:36.520 has sincere beliefs.

00:37:37.660 You know, El Salvador has the

00:37:39.740 highest rate of church

00:37:40.600 attendance of any country in the

00:37:42.460 world.

00:37:43.500 I think it's over 60% attend

00:37:45.600 church at least once a week.

00:37:48.040 Very strong, both evangelical and

00:37:52.720 Catholic segments of the

00:37:53.800 population, and very faithful.

00:37:56.580 And, you know, a big part of that,

00:37:58.900 too, is, you know, you can do a lot

00:38:02.140 when you have a country that has this

00:38:05.340 kind of spiritual grounding and

00:38:07.180 belief.

00:38:08.920 And, you know, it's a little

00:38:11.600 harder to, it'd be a little harder

00:38:13.360 to try to replicate that success

00:38:15.180 here in the States, you know,

00:38:16.840 without having a population that,

00:38:19.420 you know, frankly, had been through

00:38:20.860 40 years of just hell on earth, and

00:38:23.380 they were ready for a big change.

00:38:25.360 You know, they gave him the mandate

00:38:27.540 to do anything that needed to be

00:38:29.640 done, including at one point

00:38:31.860 threatening insurrection.

00:38:33.180 Like, he showed up to the National

00:38:34.680 Assembly with a crowd of thousands

00:38:38.320 of people, spoke to the crowd

00:38:40.100 outside, and then walks in, sits in

00:38:43.140 the speaker's chair inside, prays for a

00:38:47.100 few minutes, and then comes outside and

00:38:49.100 tells the crowd that God told him to

00:38:52.400 have patience, and that, you know,

00:38:55.860 insurrection was still on the table, but

00:38:58.380 they could wait a week.

00:39:01.520 That was a very, that was a very

00:39:04.000 Caesar-esque moment.

00:39:05.300 Yeah, that's a Chad move right there.

00:39:07.300 Yeah, it's hard to, it's hard not to

00:39:09.640 notice that shift, you know, you talk

00:39:11.740 about the type of gangs that are there,

00:39:14.300 the many in the piece, you talk about

00:39:15.780 the Satanism that many of them are

00:39:17.500 involved in, and, you know, that shift,

00:39:20.960 of course, to a country that is heavily

00:39:25.180 church, the way that they can almost

00:39:26.660 flip on a dime and feel that energy

00:39:29.420 when, when you kind of have that level

00:39:31.320 of spiritual battle occurring there.

00:39:33.780 It's also hard to not notice that

00:39:37.300 increasingly our Western leaders are

00:39:40.380 very scared of charismatic men with a,

00:39:46.100 like, a non-ideological approach that

00:39:50.180 is willing to care more about the, you

00:39:53.120 know, the well-being of the people rather

00:39:55.140 than rely on slogans about specific

00:39:57.800 policy or procedure, and often are

00:40:01.100 invoking faith that that's something

00:40:02.920 that also seems to terrify people on a

00:40:05.540 pretty regular basis.

00:40:07.200 And you really have to wonder, especially

00:40:09.500 even as we look on the American right and

00:40:12.080 how worried they are about the rise of

00:40:14.060 Trump and the fact that he really is

00:40:16.060 stripping away a lot of the ideology that

00:40:18.540 once kind of defined the GOP and the

00:40:22.720 right wing on the United States.

00:40:24.620 It's very hard, as I said, we can't, we

00:40:26.280 can't copy and paste this dynamic, but

00:40:29.320 we do see a trend that many of these

00:40:32.560 oligarchic managerial regimes are very

00:40:35.480 scared of the possibility, I think

00:40:38.700 Trump, honestly, is not a Caesar figure,

00:40:41.940 but even the very possibility that a

00:40:44.440 Caesar figure could exist, that they seem

00:40:46.820 to just be apoplectic, that this could be

00:40:50.500 forming, and they want to stamp it out

00:40:52.160 everywhere.

00:40:52.920 It's not just in their own countries, but

00:40:54.760 they feel like if someone sees it work

00:40:56.880 somewhere else in the world, it might

00:40:58.980 threaten their own power.

00:41:00.280 Right.

00:41:00.540 And I think one of the things they didn't

00:41:02.240 account for with their support of open

00:41:05.560 borders and amnesty for the past few

00:41:08.720 decades is that constitutionally speaking,

00:41:15.300 Latin people are, I think, much more

00:41:18.820 likely to follow a charismatic figure

00:41:22.540 like that than, you know, us Nordic or

00:41:28.300 Anglos.

00:41:29.660 You know, it's just, it's, there's this,

00:41:31.680 in the culture, there's just this desire

00:41:34.780 for a strong Chaldeo type figure, and it's

00:41:37.820 why throughout all of Latin history, you've

00:41:40.060 seen these powerful leaders emerge.

00:41:43.900 And there's just, there's not a real love

00:41:47.040 of Western liberal democracy among these

00:41:50.440 peoples.

00:41:51.400 So I think a situation in America, like

00:41:54.160 looking at the future, possibly the silver

00:41:57.780 lining to some of the demographic shifts is

00:42:00.780 that I could easily see a Bukele type figure

00:42:05.120 emerging in an American state, you know, either

00:42:09.640 as a governor or even making it all the way as

00:42:13.280 a presidential type figure.

00:42:16.620 You know, maybe from a Latin background or

00:42:20.440 maybe, you know, from a, from an American

00:42:24.160 background that, you know, is just able to, to

00:42:28.500 catch that energy.

00:42:29.380 I know in, in some places already in the

00:42:33.020 States, the Salvadorian vote is shifting very

00:42:35.480 hard against the Democrats.

00:42:37.520 They have taken notice of the Biden

00:42:40.220 administration's actions against El Salvador.

00:42:45.140 They, they dislike it very strongly.

00:42:48.340 And it's kind of open the, it has them now

00:42:51.460 looking at other aspects of the democratic

00:42:53.580 program and saying, wait, this doesn't

00:42:56.340 represent me.

00:42:57.060 So you think that there's some local races in

00:43:00.380 Virginia last year, one was in a state

00:43:03.040 Senate race in a district that Biden won by

00:43:05.560 30 points.

00:43:07.220 The Republican came within a half a point of

00:43:09.920 winning it.

00:43:10.880 And this was a Republican that no one in the

00:43:13.200 state party, the state GOP believed in.

00:43:15.880 The governor did not, Governor Yunkin did not

00:43:18.540 send him very much money at all.

00:43:20.960 But on the basis of a massive shift among the

00:43:26.260 Salvadoran working class that had been activated by

00:43:30.520 some local grassroots organizers working with

00:43:33.420 pastors there, you know, to have a 30 point swing

00:43:37.500 and voter preference and a, you know, working

00:43:40.460 class democratic district, that's, that's a very

00:43:43.500 significant shift to make.

00:43:44.760 And I think, you know, for Salvadoran specifically, like

00:43:48.700 there'll be another, I think they're another group add to

00:43:51.700 2020, Trump already had made inroads into the Latino vote to

00:43:57.720 such an extent that it had a big effect on some of the house

00:44:01.700 races.

00:44:03.080 It definitely locked Florida down.

00:44:04.940 And I think as the Biden administration's shown itself to be

00:44:10.940 just really petty, I mean, like the US government used to pay for

00:44:14.880 almost the entirety of El Salvador's security operations.

00:44:18.900 I mean, that was why they were able to tell them, hey, you're

00:44:21.200 going to release them back into the streets.

00:44:24.520 And now they're like, yeah, we're not funding any of this anymore.

00:44:27.280 So like USAID has, has been, you know, cut significantly.

00:44:34.040 And they're, they're throwing up roadblocks wherever they can.

00:44:37.800 State Department's just actively working to undermine Bukele.

00:44:43.340 So, you know, these actions, I think, you know, we'll see this

00:44:46.500 November probably some surprises.

00:44:48.720 I think it will make at least Virginia a lot closer.

00:44:51.080 There's a lot of Salvadoran Americans in Virginia, especially

00:44:54.480 Northern Virginia.

00:44:55.220 And, you know, whether it's enough to flip the whole state, I don't

00:44:59.400 know, but I think it could make some house races interesting.

00:45:04.180 But I think, you know, I think it's like, it'll be a country at a

00:45:08.140 time, like the Brazilians, you know, as a result of what's happened

00:45:12.160 with Bolsonaro, like Brazilian Americans specifically now are very

00:45:18.100 strongly right wing in a way that, you know, 10 years ago, they would

00:45:21.640 just vote Democrat without thinking about it.

00:45:25.220 So we are seeing a shift.

00:45:26.680 We'll, we'll see how, how big of an impact it is.

00:45:29.360 But, you know, I expect it to be enough to at least make some

00:45:33.160 Democrat consultants sweat and maybe start to think about border

00:45:37.500 security.

00:45:37.980 So you think the Casiso futurism meme could be real?

00:45:42.700 Because I think a lot of people rightly so, you know, every time we get to

00:45:46.500 one of these election cycles, they hear about the way the minority vote is

00:45:50.380 going to finally shift in the Republicans favor.

00:45:52.760 And it's finally, you know, you know, based immigration is finally going to,

00:45:57.420 you know, bring, bring the promised inroads and, and, and we're going to

00:46:00.900 see a dynamic shift.

00:46:02.800 And then that never really materializes, but when we did see, for instance, Miami

00:46:07.680 Dade go red for DeSantis, uh, like you said, Florida has definitely changed.

00:46:12.440 Uh, so, so it is interesting to, to think that, you know,

00:46:16.320 and Trump almost won Miami Dade in 2020, which was unthinkable because he cleared

00:46:21.500 40% of the vote there, which was just like for any long time watchers of Florida

00:46:27.520 and presidential races, that was just like, uh, such a key moment.

00:46:32.560 Um, I, you know, I think the more recent immigrants that have been coming in the

00:46:35.980 last few years, I have no doubt that that is not good for us in any way, shape

00:46:40.220 or form.

00:46:40.720 I'm thinking mainly of the, uh, the groups that were coming in the eighties,

00:46:45.460 nineties and two thousands that, uh, you know, and, and of course they're the ones

00:46:51.120 who are starting to become, uh, naturalized and entering the voting population

00:46:56.020 and such, uh, uh, you know, I don't, I don't know that it's good.

00:47:01.060 I mean, I don't go full castizo futurism, but I think that there are some

00:47:05.600 interesting indicators.

00:47:06.560 And, you know, one of the interesting indicators in the last election was the

00:47:10.740 Rio Grande Valley, which had always been very, very solidly Democrat, like machine

00:47:16.740 Democrat, 90% Democrat margins.

00:47:20.040 Uh, and that was a key to Texas being a democratic state for so long, you know,

00:47:24.580 really until, uh, George W. Bush, you know, it was there in the mix.

00:47:29.460 And I think that it's interesting, like these older Mexican families in South Texas,

00:47:36.540 that have, you know, been in the country for generations and for so long had been Democrats,

00:47:42.840 you know, them, uh, changing their preferences.

00:47:45.700 I mean, at least it ensures that Texas isn't going to flip, which remember in 2020, there

00:47:50.960 were indicators that Texas was very competitive for Biden.

00:47:55.320 But, uh, and a big function of why that, that wasn't anywhere near true, why Trump did so

00:48:03.640 well was, uh, the Rio Grande Valley voting for Trump in such large numbers.

00:48:10.040 That was totally unexpected.

00:48:11.200 I mean, in some, there were some counties down there where the swing was 70 points compared

00:48:18.200 to the, uh, 2016 election.

00:48:21.200 So, you know, margins, uh, margins count.

00:48:25.740 Um, you might not win a majority of a population, but it's, in any case, it's always better to

00:48:31.540 have fewer people voting against you.

00:48:34.340 So, yeah.

00:48:35.340 Well, and, uh, you know, as someone who's lived in South Florida for most of my life, I can

00:48:40.120 tell you that the most reliable thing is the last generation of Hispanic immigrants saying

00:48:45.260 that you need to close the border before the next generation gets there.

00:48:49.120 So, well, there's also, there's also a funny old, uh, joke.

00:48:53.240 It, the numbers may need to be higher anymore because 50,000 isn't worth what it used to

00:48:57.380 be.

00:48:57.620 But no joke was, is that if you're Mexican, as soon as you start making 50,000, you become

00:49:02.020 a Republican.

00:49:03.060 Right.

00:49:03.500 Yeah.

00:49:03.760 It's a, it's a very real dynamic.

00:49:06.000 Uh, it's something you can observe on a pretty regular basis.

00:49:09.160 All right.

00:49:09.780 Well, I, I appreciate you coming on.

00:49:12.160 I think that it's a really great piece.

00:49:13.640 People should, of course, check that out and all the other really great pieces that you

00:49:17.780 have over at I am 1776.

00:49:20.200 Uh, before we move over to any questions from the audience, do you want to let people know

00:49:24.540 about anything you've got coming up or anywhere else that they can find your work?

00:49:29.900 Uh, stay tuned for things that will be coming up.

00:49:33.300 Uh, we are working on a futurism issue.

00:49:35.820 There'll be our next print edition.

00:49:37.240 I'm very excited for that.

00:49:38.620 Uh, you know, the, uh, the work that, uh, our founder, Mark Grandson has done and the,

00:49:46.260 uh, and curating and, uh, doing layout.

00:49:49.780 I mean, it's really a nice, uh, all the print editions are little works of art, I think.

00:49:54.840 And, uh, yeah, so we're, we'll be working on that and that hopefully should be, uh, shipping

00:50:01.400 sometime in the summer and, uh, go, uh, sign up for an I am 1776 membership.

00:50:08.400 You get, uh, at least two, uh, two of the print editions every year, plus access to, uh, you

00:50:15.440 know, events, um, the network, uh, all of that good stuff.

00:50:21.800 So, yeah, they're very nice.

00:50:22.860 I've got the collection on my, uh, on my shelf.

00:50:24.900 All right, guys, let's go over to any questions here.

00:50:28.040 We got Cripper Weirdo says, uh, locked out of running.

00:50:31.260 What's next?

00:50:31.940 Jailing a political opponent for running.

00:50:33.660 Imagine living in a nation so corrupt and horrible.

00:50:36.380 It couldn't be us.

00:50:37.960 Yeah.

00:50:38.200 It is very sad to see all these things that you thought were really just indicative of

00:50:44.080 a third world banana Republic type scenario, just continually, uh, make themselves manifest

00:50:49.520 in the United States from the criminal street, uh, thugs deployed in the election to the active

00:50:56.620 prosecution of anyone who is running against you.

00:51:00.260 It truly is amazing.

00:51:01.800 We were, I was told my entire life that the constitution protected us from these kinds of

00:51:06.640 things.

00:51:07.040 And one of the great realizations that kind of brought me to where I am now is that actually

00:51:11.640 it's the spirit of the people and only ever the spirit of the people that actually protects

00:51:15.920 you from this stuff.

00:51:16.660 I will say, um, you know, I, I try to look on the bright side of it.

00:51:22.260 Uh, it's good to finally have someone running for public office.

00:51:26.620 That is enough of a threat to the establishment that they would bother to try to come in and

00:51:30.580 put him in jail.

00:51:31.760 That's true.

00:51:32.480 That's very true.

00:51:33.620 It's a good point.

00:51:34.760 Yeah.

00:51:35.360 Very, very unfortunately at this, you know, Mitt Romney's not going to prison, uh, if he tries

00:51:41.020 to run, it's a, it's a very different dynamic.

00:51:42.800 So that's very true.

00:51:44.740 All right, guys, well, we're going to go ahead.

00:51:46.460 And wrap this up.

00:51:47.640 Once again, make sure you're checking out Ben's work everywhere that it's available.

00:51:51.580 And of course, if it's your first time on this YouTube channel, please go ahead and

00:51:55.120 subscribe.

00:51:55.500 You can click the notifications, the bell and everything to make sure that you can catch

00:51:59.240 these streams when they go live.

00:52:00.940 And of course, if you'd like to get these broadcast as podcasts, make sure that you

00:52:04.860 subscribe to the Orr McIntyre show on your favorite podcast platform.

00:52:08.500 Thank you everybody for coming by.

00:52:10.340 And as always, I'll talk to you next time.

00:52:17.280 Bye.

00:52:17.560 Bye.

00:52:21.880 Bye.

00:52:22.480 Bye.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - April 11, 2024

Bukele's War for Peace ｜ Guest： Ben Braddock ｜ 4⧸11⧸24

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