Can Trump Ban Usury？ ｜ Guest： Matthew Williams ｜ 1⧸14⧸26
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
200.59213
Summary
On today's show, The Prudentialist's Matthew and Oren discuss the recent policy announcements from President Trump regarding affordable housing and credit card interest rates. They also discuss why it's important to focus on the issues that Americans care about, and why they should vote for the Republican Party in the midterms.
Transcript
00:00:00.240
Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.
00:00:07.380
Donald Trump has pivoted to the domestic after a big blow up over the Venezuela strike.
00:00:14.360
Trump seems to have returned his focus to the United States, recognizing that domestic policy is king,
00:00:21.000
something that his constituents are absolutely looking for as gains, especially in the area of standard of living and affordability.
00:00:27.780
So Trump has made two big announcements recently. One is his intention to restrict the purchase of residential property by finance,
00:00:37.900
large conglomerates, corporations to ensure that single families, the average person, have more affordable housing,
00:00:46.020
that it's not all being gobbled up and they're being pushed into the rental economy the way that it seems like many large corporations have been trying to move our real estate market.
00:00:55.280
The other big announcement he made is that he intends to cap credit card interest at 10%, effectively eliminating usury.
00:01:04.880
A huge change, I think, and ultimately one that he can't unilaterally make.
00:01:10.260
So we're going to be discussing why he's announced these changes, what it would take to actually get this stuff done,
00:01:15.800
and what the underlying principles are for the American people.
00:01:19.400
Joining me today to discuss that is, of course, one of our favorite co-hosts, the Prudentialist.
00:01:24.400
Thanks, Matthew. Thank you so much for coming on, man.
00:01:26.240
Yeah, thank you, Oren, for having me on again. It's always a pleasure.
00:01:29.560
Of course. So, like I said, there's been these two announcements, and we can't really look at them without separating,
00:01:36.400
obviously, the current events that are going on.
00:01:38.520
Now, in one way, the Trump administration got a rude awakening.
00:01:41.760
It got snapped back to domestic policy by the events going on in Minnesota.
00:01:46.400
Everything that's happening with ICE and the pushback against agents after we had, I think,
00:01:52.740
what is an entirely justified shooting of a terrorist who attempted to kill an ICE agent,
00:01:57.140
but has continued to return focus away from the foreign policy sector and back to what's happening domestically here in the United States.
00:02:06.560
Also, guys, I should say, we are pre-taping this, so if we're talking about this like we don't know what's already happened,
00:02:13.960
if some major event has happened, this is going to come out on Wednesday, and that's why.
00:02:18.100
We don't know. Also, obviously, we can't take any questions due to that.
00:02:22.100
But, Matt, looking at both of these actions, these are things that you and I have ultimately said would be great ideas.
00:02:29.620
Many people, I think, in the new right have asked that we see a return to focusing on building that ability for families to form,
00:02:41.060
They're more likely to have children, more likely to have larger families.
00:02:43.840
When they do that, obviously, we both know that debt is a massive problem with everyone,
00:02:48.400
but especially young people in the United States.
00:02:51.200
So I see both of these proposals as rather positive suggestions.
00:02:55.480
However, these are obviously things that the president can't just do on his own,
00:03:00.300
It seems like there's very little latitude for him to make significant policy changes.
00:03:06.440
So what do you think is ultimately going on with a presentation of both of these concerns back to back?
00:03:12.260
For me, it seems like he's setting the agenda in order to make the case for why he and the Republican Party
00:03:18.480
should stay in power, at least in Congress, throughout the midterm election.
00:03:22.380
I think that this pivot has coincided on top of numerous elections
00:03:29.860
We saw numerous gubernatorial sweeps from Democrats across the country,
00:03:34.280
as well as mayoral elections, not just in New York, but also in the Miami-Dade area as well,
00:03:40.180
where I think it's the first time in like 30-something years a Democrat's taken office.
00:03:43.880
And a lot of these campaigns that Democrats have been focusing on has been primarily on the issues of
00:03:48.660
affordability and the ability to have their quality of life see an overall improvement,
00:03:55.140
whether it's due to claims of inflation or the amount of economic opportunities that are available.
00:04:01.080
Democrats everywhere from Zora Mandani to Amy Acton in Ohio,
00:04:07.280
has been championing on the issues that people who work hard should be rewarded for the labor
00:04:11.940
that they've put forward into the economy and into the system,
00:04:17.000
And to me, it echoes a conversation I had not too long ago with some friends I have
00:04:28.420
And the last appearance he had on Tucker Carlson, I thought, was very eerily prophetic
00:04:35.260
It's the questions of, does the system ever really serve me at all?
00:04:38.900
And if it doesn't, then I'm going to go vote for people that I would never vote for before,
00:04:42.700
or I would support those that have no real, you know, support for my interests or my identity
00:04:47.900
at heart, but say that they're actually going to do something about it.
00:04:51.660
And people who say that they're going to do things are going to be much better than those
00:04:55.060
that are talking about it or tweeting about it from the purchase of power.
00:04:57.940
So I think it's very positive to see Trump return to domestic issues.
00:05:02.080
Obviously, that is where all things really do matter for the American voter,
00:05:06.600
especially as we come up on the 26 midterms and the primaries.
00:05:09.100
And so I think that we're going to see a State of the Union address probably in the next couple
00:05:13.580
of months, and that these actions are going to be his charge to press on Congress to do so.
00:05:19.400
I know that he announced that he's going to do the credit card interest rate cap at 10%.
00:05:24.720
He wants to announce that on January 20th, on the anniversary of him being sworn in.
00:05:29.660
And I don't know if he's planning to go further with that with the State of the Union.
00:05:32.860
But I think it just comes to show that some of the issues that he's been promising on during
00:05:38.060
the campaign, I think he's trying to come up with a legislative agenda to secure the victory
00:05:48.500
And that's wise because, one, it sets the stage, lets Congress know where they should expect things
00:05:56.060
It builds the expectations of the average person.
00:05:59.020
It changes the discussion inside the news media.
00:06:03.460
And even if you're not going to immediately be able to achieve these things, your constituents
00:06:06.560
are going to feel better knowing that you're talking about them, working towards them.
00:06:10.600
But of course, these are all going to be large mountains to climb.
00:06:12.900
Now, a lot of people have started to ask me for predictions.
00:06:18.360
What do you think is going to be the big deal coming up?
00:06:20.480
And I've given the same answer every time I'm asked.
00:06:22.700
Look, the thing that's going to be every president's problem, left, right, Republican, Democrat,
00:06:31.200
I probably don't have to tell our audience this.
00:06:35.060
Like, there's simply, there is no escape from kind of the democratic problem.
00:06:39.760
You and I, I think, have even read Nick Land's zombie, you know, democracy, you know, the
00:06:45.540
zombie apocalypse, you know, essay where he just talks about, you know, democracy as this
00:06:51.100
like ravenous horde looking to consume everything.
00:06:53.580
And you have a serious problem where in any kind of vote-based political order, the ability
00:07:00.520
to promise people stuff is really the key thing.
00:07:03.460
I know Republicans hate to hear that, but it is true.
00:07:08.200
And so in a democratic process, whoever offers more stuff is usually going to win in the long
00:07:14.340
And of course, that works, but it also creates long-term problems because you're printing
00:07:19.780
and spending to try to get at all of this and there's all the advantages built in for
00:07:24.400
who gets to move first on the money and manipulate the interest rates.
00:07:28.460
And so you're just going to constantly have the scenario where, you know, the boomers want
00:07:31.720
their house values to go up and corporations continue wanting to be able to use the advantages
00:07:37.840
And so inflation is just going to keep happening.
00:07:42.820
We can blame abstract principles and social policies and monetary theory.
00:07:48.600
But at the end of the day, this is just responding to the political marketplace, right?
00:07:52.620
Like this is what the people think they want, and this is how politicians deliver it to them.
00:07:58.140
And there's just no way to escape from that cycle.
00:08:00.520
And so the trick is really to kind of blame your opponent for why the affordability crisis
00:08:05.720
continues to happen, even though it's going to happen, whether it's under Republicans
00:08:11.060
However, if you can make these minor policy changes, then you can at least better the lives
00:08:18.000
You can adjust and address some level of the problem.
00:08:21.380
And that's worth doing just because the ship is sinking slowly doesn't mean you don't plug
00:08:25.720
as many holes as you can, bail out as much water as you possibly can.
00:08:32.960
The easy one first, I think this is the easier one to sell, the easier one to try to get through
00:08:38.520
It's the harder one for the Democrats to fight back against.
00:08:41.400
And that is the housing affordability issue, right?
00:08:43.740
Like nobody except corporations wants corporations to own homes.
00:08:48.820
Like it just doesn't make sense unless you're one of these diehard libertarians or conservative
00:08:53.300
that just vomits out whatever free market rhetoric you got fed back into you at one point.
00:08:57.460
Everyone can think about why having BlackRock or whatever, these large investment firms holding
00:09:06.340
large amounts of real estate and forcing people in the rental market, everyone understands why
00:09:11.860
And so even the Republicans, I think, can be pushed on board, can be guilted into it.
00:09:16.880
And the Democrats reflexively want to fight back against everything Trump does.
00:09:20.880
But what possible argument can they have against this, right?
00:09:23.540
Like this is just exactly their kind of complaint.
00:09:26.400
Like maybe they want to abolish private property altogether.
00:09:29.100
But other than that, how do they even argue against the idea that corporations shouldn't
00:09:36.480
I mean, that's going to be the really good question is, is how do you steel man, you know,
00:09:42.280
the ongoing purchasing of homes or vast swaths of real estate or even where I live?
00:09:49.300
I know that the neighboring counties around me have a lot of farmland that has been bought
00:09:52.740
up because of the outpouring of both like the various suburbs and cities that are now being
00:09:58.880
eaten alive by either the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex or if you're even further south, like
00:10:04.280
the greater Austin area, like there's no left, you know, no area left for a lot of suburban
00:10:10.280
And instead, a lot of it has been turned into apartments and a lot of it has been an avenue
00:10:15.880
Or I know it's been sort of a boogeyman to discuss the question of like private equity
00:10:20.500
But I mean, it is a very easy sell rhetorically that we are going to ban the usual boogeyman
00:10:27.060
left, right and center that kind of would all agree that like, yeah, actually, I don't
00:10:30.580
think that these guys have the average American's interest at heart, which is things like Black
00:10:35.040
Rock or the rest, despite the fact that, you know, in the previous administration, they
00:10:38.980
were quite all over the place in terms of policy.
00:10:41.560
So I think this move is going to be an interesting one.
00:10:44.760
And I know that he's not really going to be able to do it without, you know, Trump, as
00:10:49.040
he had said in his Truth Social post, he says he'll be calling on Congress to codify
00:10:53.980
He says he's going to be immediately taking steps to ban large institutional investors from
00:11:00.380
I think that it in much I think this is a much better direction rhetorically and politically
00:11:04.600
than the question over 50 year mortgages that was proposed just a few months ago.
00:11:09.660
But of course, you know, the ongoing question is going to be how many of these homes are going
00:11:16.640
There's so many questions that remain to be seen.
00:11:18.520
But in terms of, you know, legislative support, a lot of Trump allies have already moved forward
00:11:23.300
He says, I think it was Senator Bernie Moreno from Ohio.
00:11:26.740
He had said that he wants to introduce legislation in the Senate to do so.
00:11:30.700
So I think that already you're going to be to be moving forward on that.
00:11:33.800
And also, I think it's sort of a bipartisan win if he wants to go that route.
00:11:37.080
I know the Democrats tried to do something similar in 2023.
00:11:43.720
And of course, the question of special interests always arise.
00:11:46.220
So I think that it's just going to be what major shifts or turbulence is the housing market
00:11:53.540
And if so, is this going to open up, quote unquote, Main Street again?
00:11:57.460
Are we going to see more local realtors do this rather than large corporate ones?
00:12:01.160
And will we see that move in other sectors of the economy?
00:12:04.980
But I think that saying that, hey, this is no longer going to be a rental property and
00:12:09.300
this is going to be something where, you know, there are home loans and other predatory
00:12:14.020
systems in place that prevent, you know, Americans from actually getting homes.
00:12:19.340
Let's see what this does for the average homeowner.
00:12:21.200
Yeah, I really think this is a winning issue just across the board and not just because
00:12:27.700
But like I said, I just can't imagine a coherent argument from the left other than Orange Man
00:12:33.860
Bad about how you can really oppose this, which means your real enemies, funny enough, on
00:12:41.040
I'm sure that you'll have some chamber of communist Republicans or, you know, wildly ideological
00:12:46.500
free trade guys who will try to push back against this.
00:12:49.220
But I don't think their arguments will be strong.
00:12:51.380
I think the biggest block for this, sadly, will be, as you point out, how closely this
00:12:56.980
administration has worked with many of those financial institutions, BlackRock, Blackstone.
00:13:02.560
I mean, BlackRock, Larry Fink's having to like, what, buy Ukraine at this point, right?
00:13:06.680
Like we're literally working out a deal with him right now to see how much of Ukraine can
00:13:11.840
So is an administration and probably a Congress that is largely, you know, in bed with these
00:13:20.420
organizations going to tell these organizations, no, you can't buy, you know, this stuff?
00:13:25.000
Are they going to have to offer these people some kind of carrot to go along with the stick?
00:13:30.680
You know, these are all questions that I think are what would really impact the ability to
00:13:36.180
However, I will say watching every congressman like squirm as they're forced to attack their
00:13:42.300
big donors or or openly choose their donors over the basic sanity of allowing families
00:13:48.700
No, that's an exercise worth going through, even if I guess you can't ultimately secure
00:14:00.600
Would be the most difficult for even the average Republican to fight back against.
00:14:04.240
It would really just come down to whether politicians would defy their donors, which is actually
00:14:12.140
But but but at least it's just the one instead of, you know, a multiplicity of issues.
00:14:17.100
Now, the other suggestion is the credit card one.
00:14:20.880
And I think this one's interesting for a few reasons.
00:14:23.180
One, Joe Biden was famous for being like a huge fan of the credit cards and fighting
00:14:34.240
Two, I have suggested that there is a serious problem with usury several times.
00:14:40.560
Now, that's not because I'm a great moral philosopher or rocket scientist.
00:14:44.620
It's because I can read the Bible and also other other sources of moral wisdom.
00:14:49.960
And they uniformly say that usury is a problem.
00:14:53.760
They all note that this is a dangerous thing to consistently engage in.
00:14:59.640
But every time I suggest that perhaps usury is not the best, like I even cited Aristotle
00:15:05.280
at some point pointing out that the problems of usury, I get just absolutely attacked on
00:15:12.520
I get attacked by people who say, oh, well, you're just wanting to go back to the Stone
00:15:19.140
Maybe the Middle Ages, but you're you know, you're you're out there trying to destroy all
00:15:24.080
of human progress as if compound interest interest is the key to human progress.
00:15:28.340
I get, you know, people who are economic libertarians.
00:15:33.360
I also weirdly get people who say any pointing and I promise I'm not making this up.
00:15:41.100
Any anyone suggesting the restriction of usury is somehow anti-Semitic, like somehow that's
00:15:52.360
So so it's in the Old Testament, by the way, that's where that where it's where that dictate
00:16:00.200
So I think it should be clear to like lots of Christians that usury is bad.
00:16:04.800
But the minute I bring it up and this is always the funniest thing I always get.
00:16:13.760
It's like all of a sudden Christians become these like moral relativists whenever you talk
00:16:22.720
I think we can use common sense like usury is the over offering of interest, right?
00:16:28.020
Like if I'm paying more, if there's more in interest than I could possibly ever pay off,
00:16:33.080
if we're putting so much compound interest on something that it's going to
00:16:37.740
put people into long-term debt slavery, that's usury.
00:16:44.800
I think 10% is actually a pretty good number, actually.
00:16:49.660
It gives institutions enough to get a return on their investment for lending to people.
00:16:55.520
But it's not so much that it would make it impossible for the average person to catch
00:17:01.240
I think actually 10% is quite a good middle road number.
00:17:09.000
So what do you think about, I guess, the larger discussion on usury?
00:17:13.020
And then we'll get to like the practical application of if they could ever actually get this done.
00:17:18.060
I mean, it's a pretty, it's one of those third rail topics, or at least it's a word that
00:17:24.380
becomes a third rail topic in American politics.
00:17:27.820
And I think a lot of it has to do with the American political scene being very much charged
00:17:31.780
with any form of accusations of bigotry, or more recently, anti-Semitism when it comes
00:17:38.720
We've already witnessed that on the left a lot since October 7th.
00:17:41.800
It played a large part, I think, in the 2024 election, at least in places like Michigan.
00:17:46.080
We saw how that went for Kamala Harris in various parts in that state, especially due to various
00:17:52.540
The same thing also, too, when it comes to like the broader scope of these, both these
00:17:57.000
questions, both the interest cap, but also the question of like housing, is that the nitty-gritty
00:18:02.960
remains to be the ultimate question on these issues.
00:18:06.060
I mean, firms that own 100 or more single-family homes, according to an article I was reading
00:18:11.580
on CNBC in preparation for this discussion, says that, you know, that's about 2% of the
00:18:18.580
It also raises some interesting questions of like, well, if we're banning them, what else
00:18:25.500
And this is going to, of course, imagine, like you had said, be conversation starters.
00:18:28.880
And the same thing when it comes to the credit card question, or at least for capping interest
00:18:35.260
I know that the Federal Reserve plays a small role for what the rates are for them, which
00:18:40.240
is then calculated alongside the borrowing rate based on a user's credit history, and are
00:18:45.520
they considered a risky person to borrow or lend money to?
00:18:50.540
So, I mean, it's going to be a question of like, well, what does that really mean?
00:18:54.200
I think that when we also look at our financial system today, everything has been incredibly
00:18:59.980
I mean, we have witnessed that things have gone from tangibility to the question of
00:19:06.340
I was talking with Benjamin Boyce not too long ago, and he said, I became a homeowner.
00:19:09.820
And then he had to put homeowner in, you know, scare quotes, so to speak, because-
00:19:14.020
I sent a piece of paper that says the bank owns a home.
00:19:19.300
And even then, it's going to be set for years and years and years until you pay that off.
00:19:22.840
But I mean, on the question of credit cards too, I mean, the question of enforcement becomes
00:19:26.120
really interesting because there are so many not bank accounts, but are acting like bank
00:19:33.480
Things are not so tied to usual brick and mortar financial institutions or even large corporate
00:19:40.480
ones like Wells Fargo and the rest, because everything nowadays has a way for you to get
00:19:47.040
I can get a card through other sort of payment apps and Venmo and all the rest.
00:19:51.020
And while those operate, of course, the various similar, you know, payment processors, you
00:19:54.640
know, you can technically treat that as a bank account without actually having a formal
00:19:57.640
bank account at your, you know, local credit union or at a large banking institution.
00:20:02.860
So, I mean, the question of enforcement becomes an interesting one, but also at the same time
00:20:06.980
that it opens up so many other third rail discussions about credit and about who gets
00:20:16.020
Because when we look at, say, there's a lot of videos out there on social media that show
00:20:20.380
how individuals will buy a used car and get an auto loan and the financial paperwork
00:20:30.900
That is a huge problem in this country is that we have a substantial lack of financial
00:20:35.400
I'm sure that that is going to be an interesting thing to break down if you're to break that
00:20:40.300
But nevertheless, on top of that, you also have the issue of that you do have risky, you
00:20:46.060
know, people who want to, you know, get access to credit.
00:20:53.580
I imagine that someone could easily raise a 14th Amendment kind of lawsuit about, you
00:20:58.840
know, the Equal Protection Clause and their access to things or even along civil rights
00:21:03.640
So you're touching the third rail, of course, about, you know, touching our financial institutions,
00:21:08.180
which everything has become over financialized.
00:21:12.140
We don't regulate things that can be at ridiculous rates.
00:21:15.340
We don't look at, you know, the consequences that they have.
00:21:18.520
And of course, now this wanton amount of online gambling, it's a whole other discussion for
00:21:22.960
But I think that, you know, trying to put some kind of regulatory pressure on the very
00:21:28.880
question of whether you want to call it usury or if you want to call it the over financialization
00:21:33.360
of everything, it really does show that the Trump administration is looking at something
00:21:38.280
that is quite serious, which is that, you know, even Black Friday, you know, details from
00:21:43.740
this last holiday season really does come to show how bad everyone was using buy now, pay
00:21:53.160
This isn't like layaway, you know, back when you and I were younger or our parents wanted
00:21:57.000
to save up and pay for something like a ring or whatnot.
00:21:59.640
Now it's just anything and it's instantly in your hands and that's how it's going to
00:22:04.100
And then the consequences of whether or not you pay becomes a whole other discussion.
00:22:09.760
So, I mean, these are good things to have conversations on and I hope to see more policy
00:22:18.560
Ever see an idea so clearly in your head, but struggle to make it real?
00:22:24.340
With Wix, you can build a website for your business just the way you pictured it.
00:22:28.560
Get the best of both worlds with AI and drag and drop tools all in one place.
00:22:33.740
Stay in your creative flow and use AI when you want, how you want.
00:22:43.140
Yeah, you Zoomer kids don't remember the people showing up to JCPenney's to put down
00:22:51.600
50 bucks on, you know, something for six months before they finally owned it in the layaway
00:22:58.380
No, there's a lot of really interesting, I think, and deep problems wrapped up in this.
00:23:05.320
It seems like a, you know, okay, you know, 10%, you know, whatever.
00:23:08.780
Like, actually, there's so many things wrapped up in this, and you kind of highlighted a few
00:23:14.120
So I want to pull that apart a little bit, because I do think there's some fascinating
00:23:19.700
The first one is the way in which, as you say, over-financialization creates this really
00:23:26.980
interesting dynamic that puts a way more emphasis on financial literacy.
00:23:32.260
Because when we say financial literacy, there's a certain amount of, like, okay, how to write
00:23:36.800
a check and how to, you know, keep a bank account and apply for a loan and get insurance
00:23:43.500
Things that they used to kind of teach you in school to some degree, but less and less
00:23:49.200
But one of the things is that one of the reasons you need more financial literacy is you've
00:23:55.800
So if the average person just needs to, like, save money in a bank and work, those are pretty
00:24:04.980
Like, maybe you have to learn how to get a bank account and write a check, but relatively,
00:24:12.620
But the more you financialize, the more you move things into this realm where you need to
00:24:18.200
be making these investments and hedging things and figuring out the tax shelters and, you know,
00:24:24.360
the IRAs and do you want a Roth or do you want a traditional?
00:24:32.080
The more you are forced to interact with these things because of the complexity of the financial
00:24:37.080
market, the more financial literacy becomes critical, right?
00:24:41.340
And the higher level of financial literacy you have to achieve just to keep the basics up.
00:24:46.800
And this becomes a class issue because the rich are going to be the ones who are more familiar
00:24:51.760
with these complex financial instruments and those who are not in those, you know, in those
00:24:58.020
classes are much less likely to have the ability to understand that.
00:25:03.340
And that can be a huge hindrance for the average American.
00:25:06.860
Most people can't spend a large amount of their time learning everything about financial markets
00:25:12.600
and the way they should be manipulating their money to stay ahead of the game.
00:25:16.320
So if you're one of these people who is on top of all of that, or you can pay someone
00:25:20.880
enough to be on top of that for you, then you gain a first mover advantage and a advantage
00:25:28.800
You have a built in, baked in advantage over everyone else you're competing with.
00:25:33.580
There's also the issue of, you know, race when it comes to credit.
00:25:38.060
Um, you know, famously, uh, there are different classes.
00:25:41.780
There are different, uh, groups who are less likely to have good credit.
00:25:46.320
And when you shrink that credit cap, you're also shrinking the number of people banks will
00:25:52.420
Because, okay, I'm probably not going to lend to you if you're high risk at 10%, because
00:25:58.080
it's just not enough return for me to take that risk at 30%.
00:26:02.200
Well, maybe I will, because even if you don't pay off the whole thing, I'm still going to
00:26:05.520
make a decent amount of money off of you over time.
00:26:10.420
And so, you know, a lot of minorities and others who might have bad credit will be stuck
00:26:15.620
Now, all of a sudden they won't get those loans.
00:26:17.940
Now, in my mind, you shouldn't have gotten those loans at all.
00:26:20.500
The interest rate was so high that it was always a bad move for you to take that loan.
00:26:25.120
And so the fact that you get access to that loan at 25% instead of 10%, that's not actually
00:26:31.540
But in the mind of many, just not having access to credit is the problem.
00:26:35.520
And this ties us back to the last thing I want to say, which is that when you have really
00:26:40.300
a decent amount of interest rates on loans in general, when you have a high degree of
00:26:47.820
leverage because of the percentages and the availability of credit, that drives up the
00:26:52.260
price of everything, that it creates inflation.
00:26:56.020
Well, there's a lot of reasons, but one of them is that more people can get mortgages and
00:27:00.620
they can get mortgages for longer, which means they can pay more for houses.
00:27:03.520
So you have to compete with more people over the price of the house and they can offer
00:27:09.180
And this is true of cars and this is true of everything because the more people can get
00:27:14.120
leverage, the higher prices they can pay for basic goods, the more the price you're going
00:27:20.860
And there's so there's this like credit spiral that happens and you can see this in the housing
00:27:25.700
And to a large degree, the booms and busts of the housing market are also booms and busts
00:27:32.500
And so when you have a lot of money chasing houses out there, the prices shoot through
00:27:37.200
And that's what creates a large amount of your housing inflation.
00:27:42.300
The fact that kids can take out $200,000 loans for a school is why those schools can charge
00:27:49.480
If they couldn't get access, if people with no job history and nothing, no, no, no actual
00:27:56.180
property couldn't get $200,000 loans, we wouldn't be seeing the ridiculous tuitions that we're
00:28:03.120
So just across the board, the availability of credit creates in many ways, the affordability
00:28:10.320
So I know it's through like a lot of stuff out there, but just wherever you want to tackle
00:28:14.120
it, what about these many different issues that the high interest rates or availability
00:28:20.860
And I mean, this is the thing that most people aren't going to be aware of.
00:28:24.660
And it's something that has been often talked about since I was young.
00:28:27.600
And I'm sure the same thing for you, that we ask ourselves questions like, well, when
00:28:31.340
are the things that we learn in school are going to be applicable?
00:28:33.100
Or I wish that my regular W-2 tax form for the average wage earner was something that
00:28:41.060
And I mean, those are obviously an education question, but also a parental one as well.
00:28:45.400
We have a lot of things in our culture, at least, has abdicated parental responsibility.
00:28:51.320
And a lot of that, of course, has a lot to do with the dual income trap that has often
00:28:56.340
been discussed, but it's also now a necessity in order to be able to afford your family or
00:29:04.060
There's a question of decadence in there, but I'm not someone who promotes the idea of
00:29:09.260
And at the same time, you also have the issue and the question of just like, America is
00:29:14.000
not a place where we could rely on swift problems to financial issues.
00:29:20.500
I mean, this isn't like the savings and loan crisis of George H.W. Bush's time either.
00:29:27.240
And a lot of it is predicated on perception and belief more than anything that might be
00:29:33.380
This is why we put so much stock, at least for when it comes to policymakers and economic
00:29:38.340
writers, we put so much emphasis on consumer confidence than anything else.
00:29:42.740
And access to credit or a credit history becomes vitally important for every person who is trying
00:29:49.460
to apply for an auto loan or a home loan or even just applying to live in an apartment while
00:29:55.620
they go to school or live closer to their job so they're not commuting so far.
00:29:59.800
I mean, it's something that affects every slice of life.
00:30:02.460
And access to it becomes a question of necessity and not so much like, well, I don't really
00:30:11.060
And it becomes quite a debilitating situation to be in, especially for younger people.
00:30:16.360
And of course, America is in a weird place because the younger and younger generations,
00:30:21.160
under the consequences of both immigration and our policies of preferring diversity when it
00:30:28.060
comes to, say, small business loans or home loans and things from the Clinton administration to
00:30:34.340
I don't know what Trump has touched on these issues either.
00:30:36.640
But it's like you're again, like I mentioned earlier, there's so many third rails that this
00:30:40.360
like just intersects and cross cuts into that it becomes this Gordian knot.
00:30:44.840
And I think that you have to start somewhere, which I think is what the Trump administration
00:30:48.520
has announced on doing is that they're going to start laying the blade on one part of the
00:30:52.980
knot and seeing what else comes frayed or comes open.
00:30:55.860
And then we can address and talk to those issues.
00:30:57.860
And I'm all for that because it needs to be done.
00:31:03.240
But also at the same time, we have a culture where we have instant gratification.
00:31:07.160
We have the issue that no one reads the end user like license agreement when it comes to
00:31:12.860
installing a new operating system or a new program or anything on their phone or applying
00:31:18.900
But also, it doesn't matter if you have good credit or bad credit.
00:31:21.800
I mean, I check my mail every couple of days and all the time you see littered advertisements
00:31:28.080
in my apartment by in the trash where it's just like all these like credit card or loan
00:31:34.320
applications and checks that are, you know, you're magically pre approved for that no one
00:31:38.900
is really going to read all the fine print or what the interest rate is on there.
00:31:42.940
And again, it's the same thing with like, well, America is the only country in the world
00:31:45.940
where we allow pharmaceutical industries to like openly market their drugs on the TV airwaves
00:31:52.040
And so a lot of this does boil down to what we had mentioned earlier.
00:31:54.800
There's going to be a lot of special interests in mind that comes forward into this.
00:31:58.280
There's going to be a lot of questions as to how do you even start to address the over
00:32:04.860
There was a great take where it says, you know, most of the economy is entirely vibes
00:32:09.120
It's not really what's on paper, what your output is.
00:32:11.760
It's what you can convince investors and consumers that the product is actually good for you or good
00:32:16.620
So it has to come down to the fact that there needs to be, I think, in the same way, a Gerald
00:32:21.660
Ford moment where the state of the union financially is not good, whether it's the American government's
00:32:27.380
like our sovereign debt problem and our debt to GDP ratio, but also just that the average
00:32:32.120
American is both those who are considered middle class and otherwise that have voted for
00:32:37.800
Trump in the past on economic issues, whether it's the issue of trade or re-industrializing
00:32:42.820
America, it's like, okay, these are good things.
00:32:45.080
And of course, once we deport more people and the issues that we're talking about here,
00:32:49.200
whether it's the credit issue or the housing issue alleviates, you still have the longstanding
00:32:54.320
problems that institutionally there is so much rot that we have accepted as a feature that
00:33:01.640
And I think that this kind of conversation is very good because it's the kind of economic
00:33:05.820
populism that Trump has championed on in the past.
00:33:08.900
But it's the exact same kind of economic populism that his political rivals have been outflanking
00:33:14.340
Republicans on for years that so many lock, stock and barrel, traditional National Review
00:33:20.100
style Republicans don't want to play because that's against their economic orthodoxies or
00:33:33.080
Cooperators Financial Representatives are here to help with genuine advice that puts your needs
00:33:39.260
For all your holistic investment and life insurance advice needs, talk to us today.
00:33:43.880
Cooperators, investing in your future together.
00:33:48.500
Mutual funds are offered through Cooperators Financial Investment Services, Inc. to Canadian
00:33:51.360
residents except those in Quebec and the territories.
00:33:53.060
Segregated funds are administered by Cooperators Life Insurance Company.
00:33:55.380
Life insurance is underwritten by Cooperators Life Insurance Company.
00:33:59.620
Because I think you're right exactly that both these issues are home runs because the way,
00:34:04.740
not only because they're good for people, which should be the first concern, but also politically
00:34:09.900
they're winners because the narrative is just right there for you, right?
00:34:16.200
We're going to undercut the Bernie Sanders, the AOC messages.
00:34:20.860
They can't, they might say these are insufficient or something, but they can't argue about, you
00:34:27.440
They can't say, oh, well, you know, this is, this is hurting the little guy, that kind of
00:34:32.140
So I think that they are both, you know, optically good, they are strategically good and have
00:34:40.860
The largest problem, I think with the second one, with the credit card company will be
00:34:45.560
I think that's going to be the hardest thing, not just because I'm sure the credit card
00:34:49.200
companies own large amounts of politicians, but just generally, genuinely, there seems to
00:34:53.940
be among many, you know, national review, free trade, even, you know, mainstream Christian
00:35:00.980
conservatives seem to think that like, just open-ended interest rates are just, that's
00:35:07.180
That's what liberty means is allowing a company to charge 40% on a credit card, you know, to
00:35:14.080
Like that, that's what economic liberty was talking about.
00:35:17.880
And so, you know, I think the largest pushback he's going to get are from people inside his
00:35:22.960
own constituency or not his own constituency, but inside his own party.
00:35:26.820
And that creates an interesting dynamic because we have watched this conservative civil war
00:35:38.940
It's very clear that there's a neocon wing and they expect large amounts of loyalty to
00:35:44.600
Israel and they perceive the new right as personified with like JD Vance as the successor
00:35:53.080
of Trump to be in somehow in opposition to this, despite, you know, the very angry protestations
00:36:00.880
of many America firsts that that's not the case.
00:36:03.840
And so you have the scenario where they have already been trying to push back against, they've
00:36:09.640
been trying to play this game where they're like, well, we're on Trump's side, but we don't
00:36:16.520
So they're trying to like control MAGA, rebrand it, you know, gain, gain control of it.
00:36:22.700
No, MAGA is actually about foreign adventurism and, you know, infinite war and support for
00:36:28.200
That's, that's what MAGA was always out about, you know, at the, at the, uh, outset.
00:36:33.040
But the problem is like, if Trump comes in with something like this, they're going to
00:36:37.580
have to go hard in the paint against it, right?
00:36:39.560
Like, I don't see a lot of the neocons, I don't, I don't see a Ben Shapiro celebrating
00:36:48.200
Uh, I don't think Max Abrams is going to be running around celebrating this as a pro
00:36:53.200
And so this is going to, I think in a way, this is kind of an interesting way to smoke
00:36:57.500
out some of those guys because they're going to have to go directly at Trump to counter
00:37:02.160
Like, and that's going to, you know, they've been trying to play this no man's land game
00:37:05.620
where they're like, no, we're the real never Trump or we're the real Trumpers, even though
00:37:10.360
And like, you know, you guys are the ones betraying Trump, but if they're going to be
00:37:14.120
arguing and attacking Trump's principles, when it comes to credit card companies, I
00:37:19.580
think they're going to have a harder time holding themselves up as like the paragon of,
00:37:26.920
And I mean, we've saw this as well during the COVID era.
00:37:30.140
I mean, there is the question of spending and like I had mentioned earlier, there's just
00:37:34.200
so many issues about these proposals that are going to once again, reiterate the same
00:37:41.940
And I mean, again, they're not bad debates to have.
00:37:44.520
I mean, obviously the health of the American economy is like a very important one to like
00:37:52.180
We obviously really need to be heavily looking into and considering where are we going from
00:37:56.840
here when it comes to the state of the United States economy, but also the average person's
00:38:01.980
ability to afford a home and everything in those debates, I think are going to be had
00:38:07.980
The left is very straightforward about what they want to do, which is either to overregulate
00:38:12.200
So their own special interests have regulatory capture or to engage in economic redistribution
00:38:17.820
And as we've seen with, you know, the people ones or in Mom Donnie's team that primarily
00:38:23.060
And of course, with the new being New York, that's probably also going to affect a large portion
00:38:26.980
of American Jews that live in the New York City area.
00:38:30.780
I mean, like, that's just a very blunt thing that they're probably going to be doing about
00:38:34.220
that when it comes to who is footing the bill for these things.
00:38:37.640
And so I think that when you're looking at the debate or even the, you know, claims of
00:38:41.320
this being a canard about, you know, bigotry or racism or whatever, the question is going
00:38:46.000
to be like, you know, where the focus needs to be primarily above all things, the health
00:38:50.600
of the American worker and the health of the American citizen.
00:38:53.580
And that's really where our priority should be.
00:38:55.640
The government's duty is to take care of and to be sovereign over its citizens and provide
00:39:01.540
And if we're not doing that, then the question of legitimacy and sovereignty remains to be
00:39:06.160
And we have to really remind the audience and remind the listener here that, and you
00:39:10.780
and I have said this in other places, but again, like this is the first relatively competent
00:39:17.500
And it feels like a drop in the bucket about how bad things are.
00:39:21.120
And addressing all issues at the same time is going to take years.
00:39:23.940
It can't be done in one single presidential term.
00:39:25.940
That's why there's been so much attention about the quote-unquote new right, J.D. Vance,
00:39:30.000
and all these accusations about who he associates with or who he follows on Twitter and what
00:39:34.400
he says, either to defend the administration and its actions or the rest.
00:39:38.020
But when we look at the health of the country overall, there is so much work that needs to
00:39:43.020
And Trump is offering, I think, at least an economic platform for good or for bad.
00:39:48.060
It is going to be offering the Republicans, I think, a much-needed CYA because they haven't
00:39:52.680
done anything in the two years that they've been in office.
00:39:55.220
You've signed a few pieces of legislation, including the one big, beautiful bill, which
00:39:58.960
is good for the Trump administration and especially good for the Department of Homeland Security.
00:40:03.080
But overall, I mean, Congress has done very little.
00:40:06.140
And it's pretty bad when former congressmen and former speakers of the House have said,
00:40:11.660
you know, Congress has really been riding on the president's coattails and hasn't really
00:40:15.580
been doing much about their own agenda and putting forward a reason why they should be reelected.
00:40:20.940
And so Congress has largely abdicated its responsibility.
00:40:25.380
More things get done that are to the antithesis of the American interest and the American people
00:40:31.300
And while, you know, God bless him in his final days, former Senator Ben Sasse had said
00:40:35.500
it best during the Brett Kavanaugh hearings in 2017.
00:40:38.980
Congress has effectively abdicated its responsibility.
00:40:42.340
It writes shell pieces of legislation, which directs the executive branch to do things.
00:40:46.880
And when the executive branch does something that the American people don't like, the Supreme
00:40:50.740
Court becomes the politics of last resort in the United States.
00:40:54.140
And this is why we've seen SCOTUS be more active than ever, because it really does seem
00:40:57.940
that the only way that the Trump administration can legally enshrine any of its actions or its
00:41:02.920
interests is through the Supreme Court, because Congress doesn't want to do its job.
00:41:07.740
And so if the president wants to establish an economic plan and focus on the domestic issues,
00:41:12.320
especially on two big hot button ones like interest rates and affordability of a home,
00:41:18.000
especially when he has been considered to be the affordability president and to be the
00:41:22.740
guy that wants to make the economy work again, then he needs to do this.
00:41:26.460
But he's also going to need a party that isn't going to try to impeach his secretaries and
00:41:31.340
his cabinet positions every other day for the rest of his two years in office after the midterms.
00:41:37.300
Yeah, it's just obvious that Congress is over, right?
00:41:43.220
Like technically, it'll still be there and have power and vote thing on things and obstruct
00:41:52.540
But in general, the idea that we're like going to deliberate on stuff and work it out and
00:41:58.820
then pass meaningful legislation, I think that's just kind of done, right?
00:42:04.060
We're lucky if we can get continuing resolutions through Congress at this point.
00:42:08.960
So, I mean, we're talking about the community relations services yesterday and it just got
00:42:18.460
Like that's kind of the level of bureaucracy we're at is it's so impossible to get anything
00:42:22.780
done in Congress that you can't even just get like language in a budget or appropriations
00:42:30.720
You know, like that's how impotent Congress has become.
00:42:33.840
And of course, you know, we've talked, you know, quite a bit about the amount of authority
00:42:37.680
that's been transferred into the bureaucracy because Congress can't make decisions when
00:42:41.540
it comes to things that are supposed to be expert, that kind of stuff.
00:42:44.820
And I talk about that a good bit in the total state if people want to read my book.
00:42:48.300
So these are all issues that have faced Congress for years.
00:42:51.340
And I think these are just what happens as you move towards an empire, you know, as you
00:42:58.880
Democracy is kind of just a shibboleth at this point.
00:43:01.780
It's really just the only thing that can really be done is, you know, the momentum of the
00:43:07.060
bureaucracy, the authority of the executive, and then the decisions of nine people on the
00:43:12.780
When it comes to actually having some large scale deliberative body trying to move legislation,
00:43:22.440
And so that creates this dynamic where, you know, Trump is just trying to find avenues
00:43:28.540
that he can, you know, use his power to move anything and hope that the courts just kind
00:43:37.180
That is kind of just the game that is now being played.
00:43:39.460
Congress is largely irrelevant, and I think that's going to be the case going forward.
00:43:44.220
And I don't think Congress is going to be held accountable for this.
00:43:46.600
I think people are just going to call for the president to do more.
00:43:49.440
People are going to want to see the president take more authority, take more action, possibly
00:43:57.160
I think you're going to see more and more call for that kind of stuff.
00:44:00.000
And so the interesting dynamic is going to be, you know, what happens there.
00:44:04.140
But, you know, before we go, Matt, I'm going to I'm going to do something that I should
00:44:11.100
First, I'm going to ask you to make a prediction, and I'm going to ask you to make a prediction
00:44:13.800
about the future in the past, because we're doing this.
00:44:17.680
You know, we're pre-recording this, so we won't have all the information.
00:44:20.620
So not only are you having to make a prediction, you're having to make it in the fog of war.
00:44:24.820
However, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you this.
00:44:28.640
With everything going on in Minnesota, obviously, we don't want to need to rehash everything
00:44:33.160
we've talked about on the show, the shooting and whatnot.
00:44:40.920
There is violence still going on, not as severe.
00:44:43.960
Obviously, no one is dead yet in Minnesota, again, from conflicts with ICE.
00:44:49.480
But it's very clear the left is continuing to try to build this George Floyd situation
00:44:54.500
into a new, like, winter of love, I guess, is what we're looking for here.
00:44:59.420
We're going into, you know, different elections and whatnot.
00:45:03.400
Do you think that that's going to continue to escalate?
00:45:05.840
Do you think that there just isn't the passion?
00:45:12.040
Or do you think they will get this off the ground and we will see continued violence in Minnesota?
00:45:17.880
On Minnesota, I think that there will be, not just in the state of Minnesota, but in other
00:45:22.080
places in which ICE is operating, the revolutionary mindset of a lot of protesters and paid activists
00:45:28.760
or those that have gone to be, quote, unquote, legal observers, which has been with the National
00:45:33.800
And if you want to read Burroughs' book, Days of Rage, you'll understand that that has basically
00:45:37.140
been a legal arm to be eyewitnesses on the ground for various left-wing terror and actions
00:45:44.140
So I'm not really surprised to see that this has taken place.
00:45:47.500
Furthermore, you know, I know that we're talking about this in the past, but I think that it
00:45:51.500
has been safe to say that a lot of revolutionary groups and a lot of people who want to put
00:45:55.440
the law enforcement officials in the immigration and customs enforcement people up on the line,
00:46:00.540
they want questionable optics and use of force because that mobilizes them, that galvanizes
00:46:11.020
Like, it's not just that they want, like, they specifically have manuals and guidelines
00:46:20.520
This is very much direct and in-your-face about this is planned, there's a lot of money
00:46:25.920
involved, and that's something that the DOJ really does need to go after.
00:46:29.240
I do foresee that there will be probably more violence in the future on these questions,
00:46:34.400
and that there's also going to be the very ugly question in place about where the responses
00:46:44.820
I am afraid to make this prediction because obviously no one wants to be wrong.
00:46:49.000
But I'm cynical because I think that they want it to escalate.
00:46:53.100
They want it to escalate that way when things warm up after this winter passes.
00:46:57.080
They have all these litanies of names that they can go off of and do it.
00:47:02.780
However, you know, the woman who had been shot by the ICE officer, you know, it's not going
00:47:08.940
to- no one's going to really riot in Minneapolis in the middle of January.
00:47:13.360
And also, it is a white lesbian, which, again, if you're a white lesbian and you're on the
00:47:17.960
left, you probably know somewhere in the back of your head that you are not valued because
00:47:22.840
of your race and because of your identity than, say, a black person is.
00:47:27.760
And so it's going to be like an Aaron Bushnell situation where you will be forgotten or you
00:47:32.000
will be a person who they will argue that you shouldn't say rest in power over despite
00:47:40.880
You know, like this isn't a superhero movie where the 90-pound woman can somehow take
00:47:45.580
on a bunch of, you know, trained, armored law enforcement agents and win.
00:47:48.960
As we saw what happens, you know, if you try to pull those things, there will be lethal
00:47:54.300
And I think that the administration, above all things, in the wake of this violence and
00:47:57.460
any more that follows, it really needs to tell its agents that we're on your side.
00:48:03.720
You know, Andy Ngo, who has almost been killed for his reporting on Antifa over the years,
00:48:07.640
had done some research and someone is threatening to hack or has a list of all those that have
00:48:12.640
applied to be in ICE and with DHS since the Trump administration started.
00:48:16.380
There is nothing stopping that list from coming out and there's nothing stopping a new
00:48:20.020
Democratic administration from leaking that list to friendly and Antifa-adjacent organizations
00:48:27.620
So the administration needs to send a message right now.
00:48:30.160
Not only are we supporting the officer who took these actions, but we will be supporting
00:48:34.180
all of our agents against any threats to their home or their family or their person.
00:48:39.240
Because if not, once they're out of office, the sword of Damocles is well over them and
00:48:44.840
So my prediction is, yes, there will probably be more violence.
00:48:47.380
There will be more rioting potentially if it does escalate in the spring as things warm
00:48:51.080
But I think that there should be body cameras on every DHS and every ICE agent in the country
00:49:00.040
This was a champion thing on the left and it has more or less validated every single
00:49:04.040
use of force by police officers almost every single time.
00:49:07.180
So I think that the same should be done for those trying to kick out the people who should
00:49:12.680
And if you want to die for the people who shouldn't be here, then I don't have a country
00:49:18.900
You have chosen the side of the invader and I don't have as much sympathy as I probably
00:49:25.720
And if they hadn't had that cell phone camera footage from the officer who was struck in
00:49:31.140
that attack, we might be facing a very different situation.
00:49:34.640
So yeah, absolutely something that needs to be available should be made public immediately
00:49:40.840
so people can know what's going on and the deceptive practices that many of these people
00:49:46.000
are engaging in to generate exactly the type of situation you're talking about.
00:49:49.760
All right, guys, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up.
00:49:51.540
Once again, this is pre-recorded, so sorry, but we cannot take your questions today.
00:49:57.180
If it's your first time on this channel, please make sure you subscribe on YouTube.
00:50:01.500
Make sure that you click the bell, notifications, all that stuff.
00:50:04.160
If you want to get these broadcasts as podcasts, you need to subscribe to The Oren McIntyre Show
00:50:10.640
Matthew, if people want to follow your work, where should they be going?
00:50:13.780
Sure, you can find me on Twitter at Mr. Prudentialist.
00:50:16.480
You can usually find the amphibious profile picture that I have on there.
00:50:19.340
I'm also on Substack, theprudentialist.substack.com.
00:50:22.560
There'll be a lot more essays in the works coming in for this year.
00:50:27.800
I want to keep that muscle as strengthened and as trained as possible.
00:50:31.020
It says I'm on the air so often with people like you and your gracious invitation.
00:50:35.180
Alongside that, I have a YouTube channel by the same name.
00:50:37.500
I am often covering a variety of literature that is important to our political thought and today.
00:50:42.640
So a week from now when this comes out, I will have covered Georgia Sorrell's
00:50:46.480
Reflections on Violence with my friend Dime, as we have to show, do you even read?
00:50:50.920
And from there, there will just be more essays and things like that coming out both for the
00:50:59.520
And oh yeah, last but not least, I'll be on the upcoming issue of Frontier Magazine with
00:51:04.280
So I'm looking forward to that being published.
00:51:07.000
Of course, guys, if you want to read Matthew's articles along with all the other great Blaze content,
00:51:11.880
of course, you need to not only be a Blaze subscriber, but you need to have access to that Blaze
00:51:17.320
You need to have that VIP upgrade so you can get that nice, beautiful, luxurious magazine