The Auron MacIntyre Show - Causes of the Spanish Civil War ｜ Guest： Panama Hat ｜ 8⧸17⧸23

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00:00:30.440 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.980 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.340 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.480 So, I think a lot of us are aware that, you know, the Spanish Civil War happened.

00:00:42.400 We know it's historically significant, but, you know, we don't know as much about it as we do, say, something like World War II.

00:00:49.400 Especially in America, where it's something we know was a precursor.

00:00:53.280 We know that it, you know, it had certain parties involved that eventually had a wider impact on the world stage.

00:01:00.020 But I think the conflict is really important because I think it tells us a lot about kind of the events that shaped and led up to World War II and the event that really changed kind of the status of the globe.

00:01:12.800 And it also tells us something, I think, about some of the situations we might be seeing emerge in current Western Republican governments.

00:01:21.040 So, I think it's a really fascinating period to study.

00:01:24.460 And joining me today to discuss the causes of the Spanish Civil War is the YouTuber Panama Hot.

00:01:29.840 Thanks for coming on, man.

00:01:31.540 No problem at all.

00:01:32.680 It's very nice to be here.

00:01:33.940 And as always, it's an opportunity to talk about Spain, which is fantastic.

00:01:38.440 Yeah, you're somebody who has a great knowledge of this.

00:01:41.860 I know you've got like an epic, you know, five-hour something stream with Ryan Turnipseed.

00:01:47.420 Yes.

00:01:48.220 I don't think we're going to go quite that long.

00:01:50.100 I don't have that kind of marathon in me.

00:01:52.100 But I wanted to put together a nice kind of hour-long piece so we could give people an idea of what happened in the Spanish Civil War or really how we got there.

00:02:00.780 We don't have time to go through the whole war today.

00:02:02.400 Maybe one day we'll get to a longer, you know, podcast series.

00:02:06.620 But today we want to focus on kind of those causes, how they got there, and kind of what that tells us about maybe a situation that we might be in today.

00:02:14.880 But before we do all that, guys, let's go ahead and hear from today's sponsor.

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00:03:53.360 All right, guys.

00:03:54.240 So let's go ahead and jump into this.

00:03:56.100 Now, Mr. Hat, I know we're going to mostly be focusing on the Second Republic, its problems in the 1930s,

00:04:03.380 and how that kind of led to the ascendancy of kind of the military coup.

00:04:08.300 But before we get to that, what was the situation in Spain before this?

00:04:14.080 I get the feeling that we weren't really dealing with a country that had a whole lot of stability in the preceding 50 to 100 years before we got to this point.

00:04:23.000 No.

00:04:23.200 I mean, if you wanted to do a summation of Spanish history for the 1800s, you would say it had every single thing happening in it but stability.

00:04:32.340 I mean, I'm going to have to simplify and kind of run over an awful lot here.

00:04:35.840 But essentially, we'll begin with the invasion of Spain undertaken by Napoleon in the Napoleonic Wars in the early 1800s,

00:04:48.120 which kind of – it's an interesting case because he didn't – it wasn't like with other countries where he just sort of, you know,

00:04:55.820 brought his troops up and invaded.

00:04:56.920 It was almost like a sort of internal coup because Spain and France had been allies for quite a long period.

00:05:03.180 And Napoleon's armies were in Spain to invade Portugal, which they did.

00:05:09.020 And then they basically overthrew the Spanish monarchy and replaced it with Napoleon's brother, Joseph.

00:05:16.920 And this sets off a huge internal low-level civil war in Spain, which if anybody – I mean, there's lots and lots of books about it,

00:05:28.380 but it is absolutely vicious.

00:05:29.720 It is one of the most vicious wars of modern times.

00:05:32.700 It is also where the term guerrilla war comes from or guerrilla war in Spanish, which literally means little war because that's what it was.

00:05:42.120 So they were waging war kind of against an invader on home soil, you know, and there's all kinds of stories about, you know,

00:05:47.940 horrible, horrible mutilations of French troops.

00:05:50.740 It's kind of like, you know, like how these days you see all these Vietnam films where it shows kind of like, you know,

00:05:58.620 American troops and they're out in the jungle and then they come across like a platoon that's been, you know,

00:06:04.820 strung up on trees with their guts everywhere.

00:06:06.480 Sort of, you know, you're reading about scenes like that, but in 1800s Spain, basically.

00:06:12.120 And eventually, of course, the French are forced out, the Duke of Wellington and the English – well, 0.98

00:06:19.840 the British armies fight a campaign through Portugal into Spain.

00:06:25.200 And the monarchy is restored under – this should come to me by memory.

00:06:31.140 I've got many pages of notes here, so I apologize if I take a moment.

00:06:34.980 But, yes, so Joseph is forced to abdicate and flee, and Ferdinand VII is restored to the throne.

00:06:47.560 And the problem that Spain now has – I mean, they've been going under a sort of long, slow phase of decline up to this point.

00:06:55.020 But what's happened now is that their empire in the Americas has more or less collapsed.

00:06:59.840 Basically, they – large parts of it in what is now Argentina, Paraguay, what is Bolivia and Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, et cetera, et cetera.

00:07:11.820 These have – and, of course, Mexico – have all declared or are in the process of declaring independence.

00:07:18.100 And there are attempts to retake these colonies.

00:07:21.560 There are armies that are sent after Napoleon leaves.

00:07:24.260 But it doesn't – it comes to nothing, and the big bulk of Spain's empire in the Americas is now gone.

00:07:30.260 So Spain is now kind of stuck in this position where it's no longer a major European power,

00:07:35.640 and all of its prestige in the new world is also basically vanished.

00:07:40.080 They, of course, still have Cuba, and they still have the Philippines and various things like that.

00:07:44.840 But we'll get on to what happens to those colonies as well.

00:07:49.320 And so going on through the 1800s, Spain is affected by all kinds of internal struggles to do with the church,

00:07:58.780 the power of the Catholic Church, which is, of course – you know, there isn't really a comparison between anywhere else

00:08:05.340 and the Catholic Church in Spain just in terms of how much political power and influence it has.

00:08:09.860 And various politicians – I believe, in fact, during the Napoleonic invasion,

00:08:18.660 there is a law passed which partially disestablishes the church and takes away a lot of its formal power.

00:08:24.260 But nevertheless, it remains a kind of monolithic force in Spain,

00:08:27.920 and there's all kinds of arguments between liberals who are influenced by all the kind of new reformist ideas

00:08:34.880 that are floating around Europe post-Napoleon, and there are kind of – there are uprisings by peasants

00:08:41.960 and by workers of the land and such.

00:08:44.720 Spain very slowly begins to industrialize.

00:08:46.860 But there is – kind of the dominant monarchical figure in this century is Isabella II, 0.91

00:08:59.040 who is proclaimed – she is the daughter of Ferdinand VII, who is restored under Napoleon.

00:09:07.620 And this is – now this is the beginning of what we call Karlism.

00:09:11.960 So the Karlists rally around the figure of Don Carlos, hence the name. 0.56

00:09:20.000 And the initial kind of – the initial problem for the Karlists is that, well,

00:09:27.080 is they refer to Salic law, which people may have heard of,

00:09:30.880 which is a whole kind of thing unto itself.

00:09:33.480 But in very simple terms, one of the defining features of Salic law,

00:09:37.860 as it was traditionally practiced, is that women cannot inherit thrones. 1.00

00:09:40.580 You only have male monarchs.

00:09:42.440 And so – now it's somewhat ironic because I don't think Salic law was ever actually practiced in Spain.

00:09:46.900 But nevertheless, this is the initial causus belli for the Karlists,

00:09:52.100 who want to proclaim Don Carlos king instead.

00:09:55.140 And there are three major wars between the government of Isabella II,

00:10:00.340 which is seen as kind of more liberal and reformist,

00:10:03.000 versus the uprisings in the name of Don Carlos and his descendants throughout the century.

00:10:09.480 Very, very costly, very bloody, a great kind of – these kinds of constant swirlings of revolution and disorder

00:10:19.100 kind of mean that Spain is never really free of its internal divisions and problems.

00:10:26.620 Of course, over time, the Karlists become a kind of all-encompassing traditionalist movement. 0.99

00:10:32.960 The word Karlists becomes synonymous with kind of Catholic traditionalism.

00:10:37.940 And as the decades go on, Karlism becomes a kind of – almost kind of medieval-style reactionary force, in a sense.

00:10:48.480 It's what I would call nowadays something approaching authentic reaction,

00:10:52.220 where they begin to – they begin to – they oppose themselves entirely to parliamentarianism,

00:11:02.300 to any kind of liberal or even kind of central government.

00:11:06.880 They want a kind of very – they want Spain to be united, but to be a united whole.

00:11:12.760 But with each kind of municipality, each county, each province having its own unique forms of government,

00:11:21.220 its own autonomy, you know, again, in a more kind of feudalistic way, if that makes sense.

00:11:27.400 So in a way, the revolutionaries are the reactionaries in this case.

00:11:33.760 They're pushing against a liberalizing monarchy,

00:11:37.600 and they're wanting to return to something that is a much more traditional and even more feudal structure.

00:11:43.900 Yes, they are reactionary rebels, I think would be the way to put it.

00:11:47.480 They desire to overthrow or remove the government and return to an older form.

00:11:54.380 And so that's kind of the 1800s in a nutshell.

00:11:57.620 It's worth pointing out that Spain is industrializing, as other countries in Europe are,

00:12:06.000 but they lag very far behind.

00:12:09.240 So, you know, this is – they do have an industrial revolution,

00:12:12.780 and there are kind of – the railways and the factories and all this kind of happen,

00:12:15.940 and you get peasants moving into the cities to become workers and all this kind of thing.

00:12:19.480 But it's a very, very far cry from what's happening in, say, Britain or even in France or Germany or America.

00:12:29.960 And it should also be noted that even right up until the Republic of the 30s,

00:12:35.580 the traditional landed power in Spain remains very, very strong.

00:12:40.860 Spain, especially in the south, is dominated by these huge agricultural estates called Latifundia,

00:12:47.620 which is what they were called in ancient Rome, of course.

00:12:51.100 It's the Latin way for them.

00:12:52.720 And what's interesting is a lot of these estates, I mean,

00:12:55.520 they were literally first set up during the Roman rule in Spain,

00:12:59.960 or what was – would it be – Hispania.

00:13:03.720 And, you know, so there is this kind of unbroken, archaic factor

00:13:10.380 in kind of Spanish political and economic life,

00:13:14.280 where, you know, the power is very much still in the hands of aristocrats and landowners

00:13:20.100 and, of course, the new growing industrial class,

00:13:23.840 some of whom, of course, begin to adapt liberal and reformist ideas.

00:13:28.320 So, anyway, Isabella II proves to be –

00:13:33.280 despite her reign surviving the Carlos War,

00:13:35.160 she proves to be something of a rather weak and ineffectual monarch, 0.56

00:13:42.240 and she is eventually overthrown and forced to abdicate

00:13:45.360 under the auspices of a general and aristocrat called Juan Prim.

00:13:54.440 So, yeah, so they actually have military kind of dictatorship

00:13:59.000 before we even get to the Second Republic for a while there.

00:14:02.020 Yes.

00:14:02.320 I should mention that though Spain is nominally a parliamentary monarchy,

00:14:07.860 there are a whole load of coup d'etats by generals and aristocrats,

00:14:12.540 very often kind of both in one person,

00:14:15.020 throughout the reign of Isabella in the 1800s.

00:14:17.880 These very often take the form of what are called pronunciamentos,

00:14:21.660 if I'm pronouncing that properly,

00:14:23.400 which is kind of unique to the Spanish-speaking world,

00:14:26.120 where some great general in all his regalia will ride up on a horse

00:14:31.780 in front of assembled troops and they will read a long speech

00:14:35.320 detailing the grievances and the problems that are going on in the government.

00:14:41.360 And if we need to overthrow the administration and solve these problems

00:14:45.840 and all the troops kind of go, you know,

00:14:47.360 viva, viva! 0.95

00:14:48.260 And then this spreads outwards

00:14:50.120 and other military garrisons and regiments

00:14:53.660 will kind of decide whether or not to join.

00:14:55.940 And if the pronunciamento is successful,

00:14:57.840 then the general will be, will kind of accede to office,

00:15:00.780 normally fairly bloodlessly,

00:15:02.520 because it will be taken that, well, he has the support of the army, you know,

00:15:05.600 so it just kind of happens as a fait accompli,

00:15:09.820 as opposed to a kind of bloody struggle for power.

00:15:12.860 But this is a very common form of how governments change in Spain at the time.

00:15:17.300 So Isabella leaves and the First Republic is declared,

00:15:20.560 which I believe lasts about six or seven years.

00:15:25.480 If I can find the, yeah, so the First Spanish Republic lasted from 1873 to 18,

00:15:33.800 well, sorry, I should, not even years, sorry, 1873, 1874.

00:15:38.920 I always, I was confusing it with a different event.

00:15:42.260 That's why I said six years.

00:15:43.140 Um, uh, that's after the abdication of King Amadeo, my mistake, who, um, who,

00:15:49.400 who followed, uh, uh, if I'm just, sorry, I believe, I believe I'm confusing.

00:15:56.080 No, that's okay.

00:15:56.500 It was, uh, it was barely a blip when I saw it on there.

00:15:59.400 Yeah.

00:15:59.540 I was like, when was there even a First Republic?

00:16:01.460 Oh, for like, uh, eight months or something.

00:16:03.600 Uh, yeah, she, uh, Isabella is followed by King Amadeo, who is actually an Italian prince,

00:16:08.560 who is, who is brought in as almost kind of like outside help.

00:16:12.420 Um, because it, I think it's, it's an attempt to circumvent the dynastic problems of Spain.

00:16:16.580 So they kind of take a third option, but, um, Amadeo arrives in Spain and, um, is pretty

00:16:23.480 much just disgusted with the situation.

00:16:25.380 Um, he, he can't, he can't seem to make anything happen.

00:16:28.140 He's frustrated with the, the constant uprisings and rebellions and disorder.

00:16:31.900 Um, so I believe he actually, um, uh, he, he abdicates, um, and declares Spain to be

00:16:42.340 ungovernable.

00:16:42.880 And then you have the Republic, um, which lasts very, very briefly, um, before it is ended

00:16:49.520 by, um, uh, well, so it's, it's, it's somewhat complicated, um, because isn't,

00:17:01.900 so Isabella is succeeded by, um, Amadeo, who is of course, uh, he is, he is a prince of

00:17:08.380 Savoy.

00:17:08.800 He is not a, he is not a, a Bourbon.

00:17:11.840 Um, and the, when the Republic ends, um, a Spanish politician called Antonio Camel Basto

00:17:19.780 Castillo kind of, um, he's a, he's a conservative, um, what, what we might call a conservative liberal

00:17:26.280 who rallies all the kind of forces, the political forces of the Republic around him.

00:17:31.700 He's a, he's a very astute, um, political player.

00:17:35.220 And, um, he, he, he restores the monarchy under Isabel II's son, Alfonso, who is, who

00:17:41.220 reigns as Alfonso XII.

00:17:42.400 Um, and what is set up is a kind of, so, so he wants, he wants to build this sort of British 0.93

00:17:50.700 style constitutional monarchy where you have the monarchy, you have the parliament and you

00:17:54.800 have regular elections, but it's a kind of, uh, balanced, stable, stable kind of system.

00:17:59.940 And the, the only, the only problem is, is that in Spain, they, they mimic the British 1.00

00:18:05.020 system, but without any of the actual hard factors that make that system work.

00:18:09.220 If you see what I mean, so they kind of, they, they, they imitate the dress of it, but, but

00:18:13.520 they don't have any of the, the actual underpinnings.

00:18:16.500 So there is a parliament, um, but this parliament is, and this parliament has regular elections

00:18:21.820 between a conservative party and a liberal party, but it's a complete sham election.

00:18:25.940 You see, so, so what, what happens is it's, it's, it's a system called the turno where

00:18:30.600 the King of Spain meets with all the political leaders and the elite and the oligarchy.

00:18:35.080 And, um, between them, they, they decide whose turn it is to win the election.

00:18:39.220 Basically.

00:18:40.360 And when the King decides it's going to be the conservatives, conservatives or the liberals

00:18:43.640 that this time, the King says, right, that's who's that's that.

00:18:47.080 So that in a sense, the elections don't happen in Spain at this time, they are made, the elections

00:18:52.040 are manufactured.

00:18:53.180 Um, and what happens is on a local level, you have political bosses who are, who are known

00:18:58.940 as, um, caciques, which is the Spanish term for like a sort of native chief.

00:19:03.460 If that makes sense, or like a tribal chief who will decide the election in advance in

00:19:08.020 that constituency.

00:19:08.540 They will make sure that the votes come in as they're supposed to, if that makes sense.

00:19:12.440 Um, uh, I believe, um, Alfonso the 12th, um, eventually, uh, he, I'm trying to think

00:19:23.320 if he, cause I, so basically he, um, he.

00:19:27.480 It's okay.

00:19:28.100 I know there's a, there's a lot of abdication and reshuffling there.

00:19:31.980 Where, where do we see the emergence of the second Republic?

00:19:34.560 That's, you know, uh, where, where our actions really going to be at with, when do we see

00:19:38.080 that start to just to quickly fast forward?

00:19:39.720 Um, I believe Alfonso, Alfonso, uh, dies and his, um, and his infant son, um, Alfonso

00:19:46.680 the 13th, um, is King, I believe from the moment of his birth due to the political circumstances.

00:19:52.100 I think, um, uh, it was decided that Alfonso the 12th would abdicate if he gave, if his

00:19:58.600 wife gave birth to a boy, which she did, he abdicates.

00:20:01.820 You then have a regency, um, where Alfonso the 13th is, so he's an infant King guided by

00:20:08.840 his mother.

00:20:09.920 Um, and Alfonso the 13th rules, um, uh, from, he is born in, check my notes, uh, 1886.

00:20:20.860 Um, and he will be King immediately before the second Republic of the 1930s.

00:20:25.900 Um, so Alfonso, um, the, the, the, the reign of Alfonso covers a lot of things that the most,

00:20:32.700 the first and most important thing is the Spanish American war of 1898, um, which I'm sure many

00:20:38.080 of the listeners will have heard of.

00:20:39.340 This is, this is the war in which, um, America, um, captures Cuba and the Philippines, um, and

00:20:45.100 I believe Puerto Rico, um, and a few other things as well from Spain.

00:20:50.420 Um, we can, the, the, the, the exact causes and the, uh, possible American machinations

00:20:55.920 behind that.

00:20:56.560 That's a whole nother stream.

00:20:57.820 That's a whole nother topic, but suffice to say America goes to war with Spain and Spain

00:21:02.540 is utterly humiliated.

00:21:03.700 Um, their Navy is, is completely defeated and the last of their Imperial, um, colonies 0.89

00:21:10.720 are swallowed up by America, which is the kind of new emerging power in the world. 0.91

00:21:14.500 Um, and this basically sets off the, the major political background to the, to the next kind

00:21:20.480 of 40 years.

00:21:21.400 Um, because Spain has been humiliated. 0.98

00:21:24.880 It has been revealed as weak and incompetent and riven with corruption. 0.76

00:21:28.300 And it is, it has ceased to be this kind of great conquering power that it's, that it

00:21:33.840 was, you know, um, in the, you know, in the kind of, uh, from, from the 1500s onwards.

00:21:40.100 Um, so, um, there's this kind of, again, as I said, this kind of feeling of emasculation

00:21:45.980 and humiliation, which, which passes through Spain.

00:21:48.420 And this is the catalyst for a load of very radical ideas, both on the right and the left,

00:21:53.540 where you have the kind of, um, more reactionary style conservatives who say that,

00:21:58.300 well, Spain has been made weak by liberalism and socialism and all these, all these radical

00:22:02.600 currents.

00:22:03.020 And there's a big anarchist movement in Spain as well, which assassinates several prime

00:22:07.260 ministers, um, around this time.

00:22:09.080 And so they kind of blame all this kind of thing.

00:22:10.680 And there's, there's, there's, there's kind of, um, centrists and liberals who, who blame

00:22:15.840 kind of, um, instability and corruption in general.

00:22:19.240 And there's the leftists who say, you know, um, it's, it's the elite and the military and

00:22:23.660 the oligarchy making us weak.

00:22:25.020 We need to overthrow them and establish a new regime, you know, to carry us forward.

00:22:28.480 And so the, the political, this political center begins to kind of tear at the edges.

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00:23:04.520 Um, until you get to World War I.

00:23:07.700 Sorry, just, just for a second.

00:23:09.780 This sounds a little bit like there's maybe, you know, some parallel with kind of Russia

00:23:13.840 where you have a, a backward, you know, a backwards lagging, uh, you know, uh, system

00:23:19.180 that didn't industrialize as quick as others.

00:23:21.060 Loses an embarrassing war to a foreign power and this kind of creates instability with monarchies.

00:23:29.220 And it feels like it rhymes a little bit here.

00:23:32.740 Yeah, it absolutely does.

00:23:33.780 There are, there are parallels there.

00:23:35.020 Um, and in, in fact, um, a lot of Marxists at the time were certain that, um, that Spain

00:23:42.440 was going to be a place of revolution.

00:23:44.160 Uh, well, I should say not orthodox Marxists because they, they tended to focus on more

00:23:48.500 industrialized places, but because Spain was seen as so, so backward and so riven with

00:23:52.940 instability, there was quite a big chance that, that leftists were going to be able to catch

00:23:56.960 onto power there because of the mass popular discontent.

00:23:59.240 Um, and it should be said there was, I mean, um, Spanish workers and peasants, uh, were,

00:24:06.300 and indeed still are, uh, particularly militant, um, in, in, in their attitude.

00:24:09.960 They, they do not have much respect for the organized, um, capitalistic, um, systems or

00:24:16.580 for their landowners or aristocrats.

00:24:18.200 They, they're, they're quite happy to, um, to kind of, you know, seize, seize the moment

00:24:23.220 if they're, if they're given chance to.

00:24:24.480 Um, so anyway, yes, Spain stays, uh, neutral in, in World War one, um, which is in the

00:24:30.780 short term is great because it means that both sides of the war are buying goods from

00:24:35.220 Spain as a neutral country, right?

00:24:36.580 That's, that's fantastic.

00:24:37.680 So there's this big boom in industry all of a sudden in Spain, um, uh, which is then followed

00:24:43.100 after the war by a big crash because, you know, um, that's what, that's what happens,

00:24:47.760 right?

00:24:47.920 Your war, you know, you got the war sets everything on a boom and then immediately the demand stops

00:24:52.260 once the war's over and there's a big dip.

00:24:53.920 And this hits Spain particularly hard.

00:24:56.280 Um, and this is compounded by, um, a military defeat, um, in 1923 in North Africa.

00:25:05.200 Uh, Spain has a tiny strip of territory in North Africa called the Riff, which they're

00:25:09.820 desperately trying to pacify with their hopelessly corrupt, underfunded, ill-trained conscript 1.00

00:25:14.760 army.

00:25:15.700 Um, and they suffer this massive defeat at the Battle of Anwal where I think almost 20,000

00:25:20.960 Spaniards all in all are killed or captured by a few thousand, um, Moroccan horsemen.

00:25:26.980 Basically, it's a gigantic embarrassment, um, for the Spanish and it seriously discredits 1.00

00:25:32.240 the regime, um, which is swiftly ended, uh, not long after, um, by Miguel Primo de Rivera,

00:25:38.780 who is a military officer and aristocrat who, um, takes power in September, 1923 in a coup,

00:25:44.820 um, ousts the liberal government, ends the restoration kind of, uh, bourgeois parliamentary

00:25:50.900 system.

00:25:51.460 And I think he wants to be a kind of Spanish Mussolini, you know, where he kind of comes

00:25:55.960 in under the monarchy and sort of turns this, turns the situation around.

00:25:58.700 He isn't because he's, um, somewhat, he has quite a bit of support at first from, um,

00:26:04.280 reformists, even on the left who see him as a kind of, um, possible force for change in

00:26:08.960 Spanish society.

00:26:09.620 And he is in some ways quite, quite radical in what he wants to do, but he is a hopelessly

00:26:13.860 inept politician because he's an army officer and a very sort of macho one who's used to

00:26:19.300 just giving orders and having them be done.

00:26:21.380 Um, but that's not how it works in politics.

00:26:23.480 Um, so he's, he's very limited in his actual scope and, um, he's also, uh, uh, an alcoholic,

00:26:31.100 a very severe alcoholic who, uh, is constantly embarrassing himself, um, and having to then

00:26:37.140 rescind embarrassing actions that almost every single day.

00:26:41.040 Um, and this regime survives until 1930 when, uh, Miguel Primo de Rivera is out.

00:26:49.300 Um, and there is an attempt to return to the, uh, semi-democratic constitutional system

00:26:57.280 that he threw out, but it is too late.

00:27:00.900 Um, and the Republican movement has gathered in strength and Alfonso the 13th is seen as,

00:27:06.500 um, having been a part of that dictatorship and, uh, for a number of other reasons as well.

00:27:12.600 Um, he's increasingly losing his grip on the situation.

00:27:17.460 Uh, there is an election in 1931, um, which is taken as a de facto referendum on the monarchy.

00:27:23.220 Basically the, the Republican parties group into a big, big coalition as do the monarchist

00:27:28.880 parties and the monarchists actually win by a tiny, tiny majority.

00:27:33.340 Um, but in Spain elections, um, uh, let, let's just say that even if you win by a tiny majority,

00:27:39.440 um, you may just be swept away anyway.

00:27:42.200 Um, which is what happens.

00:27:43.740 The, the Republican forces are intent on declaring a Republic.

00:27:47.820 The, um, senior military officers inform the King that the military will probably not back

00:27:52.300 him in the case of the civil war.

00:27:53.880 So Alfonso, uh, flees the next morning after the election to France, um, but does not formally

00:28:00.600 abdicate.

00:28:01.400 Um, and so that is how we get to the second Spanish Republic.

00:28:06.080 Excellent.

00:28:06.660 Well, let's go ahead and pick up with the second Spanish Republic right after we hear from

00:28:11.280 First Liberty Institute.

00:28:13.020 If you're a person of faith, you'll love this.

00:28:15.200 The Supreme court recently overturned a 50 year old legal precedent that permitted open

00:28:19.340 hostility to public expression of faith to get the word out.

00:28:22.520 This calls for more public expressions of faith.

00:28:25.680 The overturning precedent was cited when high school coach Joe Kennedy was fired from his

00:28:30.440 job, his crime, praying in public after games.

00:28:33.760 It took seven years of court battles to get the precedent overturned and his job back to

00:28:38.820 celebrate the people over at First Liberty Institute created the first freedom challenge.

00:28:43.620 They want people to fill local stadiums and pray after the game, just like coach Kennedy

00:28:48.280 on his first game back Friday, September 1st.

00:28:51.780 So what can you do to promote the first freedom challenge one sign up at RFIA.org and commit

00:28:58.600 to praying on September 1st to record a short video message, challenging people to take a

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00:29:16.980 Sign up at RFIA.org.

00:29:19.860 That's RFIA.org.

00:29:22.120 All right.

00:29:24.100 So we finally made it to the second republic.

00:29:27.580 Now, obviously, this is not going to be a stable government either.

00:29:31.440 I don't think it starts out with a lot of promise.

00:29:34.700 But but what was our situation once the Republicans have kind of finally gotten their way?

00:29:40.120 Um, well, so immediately there's there's almost a kind of it's odd because Spain almost seems

00:29:49.940 to sort of sleep its way into a republic where a lot of the monarchists and conservatives are

00:29:57.020 kind of ambivalent about the fate of the monarchy.

00:29:59.940 I mean, ideally, they would perhaps prefer a monarchy to a republic, but their more immediate

00:30:04.140 concern is how do we keep the institutions in Spain in our hands and not in the hands of

00:30:11.340 the leftists, which is the kind of that is the the the main kind of objective of the right

00:30:21.000 for the first half of the republic, after which just becomes, you know, how do we get rid of

00:30:25.000 this thing when they realize that it may be harder than they thought?

00:30:27.720 Um, so there is a new constitution, which is ratified in 1931.

00:30:36.500 Um, and this sets up a whole a whole load of quite interesting laws, including the kind

00:30:46.900 of the the electoral law, which which, again, it's quite Byzantine, I don't fully understand

00:30:52.140 it.

00:30:52.720 But it seems to be that you have kind of more than one representative for each

00:30:57.720 each kind of district or seat.

00:31:00.200 And rather than it just being one winner, you get like the top three or four or two, depending

00:31:06.180 on the size of the of the district of the candidates win seats.

00:31:09.800 Um, or I think that there's some kind of modifier where if you win over a certain amount of the

00:31:16.260 votes, if one party wins a certain amount of votes, you get all the seats, I think, even

00:31:21.220 if you don't win the majority, it's it's quite complicated.

00:31:23.320 But the main the main thing for us to take away from it is that it encourages alliances and

00:31:31.940 sort of electoral concordances between parties, because Spain is is riven with all these kinds

00:31:36.940 of tiny minority parties all over the place.

00:31:38.820 And this kind of forces them all to bunch up.

00:31:41.900 So the main party for the for the right is the is that or the C.A.D.A., which is the

00:31:50.660 see if I can do it from memory, the Confederación Española de Derechas Autónomas, which which

00:31:56.820 basically means confederation of right wing parties.

00:31:59.460 Um, and on the left, there's all I mean, the left is a lot more riven with with division

00:32:05.520 than the right.

00:32:06.060 So there's the main Socialist Party, the PSOE and various kind of liberal, more liberal,

00:32:14.180 less radical parties.

00:32:16.220 And there's Orthodox Marxist parties and Trotskyist parties and anarchist parties.

00:32:21.060 And initially, the Republic is ruled by President Niceto Alcala Zamora, who is the who

00:32:29.420 is the he becomes the president.

00:32:34.120 And what's very strange about the well, I should say not strange is quite predictable,

00:32:39.820 really.

00:32:40.120 But the the initial government is fairly left wing.

00:32:44.300 And one of the politicians in it is a man called Manuela Fania, who is a very, very intelligent

00:32:49.780 Spanish intellectual, very, very well known.

00:32:52.400 Um, and also something of, um, something of, uh, he's very anti-clerical, very anti-menarchical,

00:33:00.900 and he really does want to transform Spain.

00:33:03.700 And he pushes for, um, two laws, one on the church and one on education, both of which,

00:33:10.480 uh, massively, um, curtail Catholic education in Spain.

00:33:15.580 So it basically confiscates by force all, um, all church schools or all kind of, um, all

00:33:25.280 any kind of ecclesiastical property that is seen to be in some way related to education.

00:33:30.060 Sometimes it just outright confiscates Monterees and convents and such, um, to repurpose for

00:33:34.820 its own ends.

00:33:35.460 But needless to say, this law massively antagonizes the Catholic right in Spain.

00:33:40.320 Um, this is the beginning of the kind of political division, I think, which will eventually bring

00:33:45.460 the Republic down.

00:33:46.400 Um, and it really, it, it galvanizes right-wing opposition.

00:33:51.320 Um, and there, there are all these kinds of, uh, moments where the, the Republic seems

00:33:56.400 to be just picking on traditional Spain.

00:33:59.900 Any, anything that smacks of Spanish nationalism, Spanish traditionalism is just kind of torn away,

00:34:05.860 you know, or just attacked by, by the, um, powers of the Republic, which are of course meant

00:34:11.460 to represent all Spaniards.

00:34:13.500 Um, and there are all kinds of other restrictions on the church.

00:34:17.580 Um, and, uh, in 1933, they legalized divorce, um, which is another big kind of, um, sticking

00:34:25.600 point.

00:34:26.660 Um, it disestablishes the nobility.

00:34:30.060 Um, and this is actually condemned personally by, uh, Pope Pius the 11th.

00:34:36.420 Um, because he sees, he says this is an attack on civil liberty.

00:34:39.320 This is an attack on Catholic worship.

00:34:41.920 Um, and it should be pointed out as well that the, that there's a lot of thuggery, um, on

00:34:47.100 both the right and the left on the, on the kind of street level where, you know, there

00:34:50.640 are, there are gangs of leftists who go around attacking churches, killing priests, uh, you

00:34:57.160 know, burning down monasteries.

00:34:58.860 Um, there are, there are various incidences of attacks on convents and the rapes and killings

00:35:04.120 of nuns, um, which happen kind of on, on and off instances. 0.72

00:35:08.380 Um, there's a, there's a massive outbreak of anti-clerical rioting, um, not long after

00:35:13.580 the declaration of the Republic.

00:35:14.720 And, um, Athania is asked to comment or to intervene in some way.

00:35:18.920 And he simply says that, um, uh, the Republic and the, the integrity of its laws, uh, at

00:35:26.920 least from where he's sitting matter more to him than, than the church does.

00:35:30.100 Um, which is, which is, is, is taken to mean I simply don't care.

00:35:33.560 Yeah, this is something that I, that really, I was shocked by when I first started learning

00:35:39.040 about this subject is just, it's, um, it seemed like the murder of, you know, uh, church, uh,

00:35:45.300 officials or nuns or, you know, the burning of churches was just a, a regular affair when,

00:35:50.660 when, you know, if you won an election, if you lost an election, if you had a rainy Tuesday,

00:35:55.420 it was time to go out and, and, and can we continue the shocking level of violence?

00:35:59.940 And, uh, you know, the, even though clearly anybody hoping to, to kind of glue a country

00:36:05.700 together, can't just let roaming bands of people go out and attack churches and burn

00:36:10.600 them down and kill priests and nuns and such.

00:36:13.100 It seemed like there was just no effort, uh, or very little effort to keep any kind of 0.99

00:36:17.760 order when it came to this.

00:36:19.300 No, no.

00:36:19.520 There's constant breakdowns of, of civil order, um, throughout this period, the, the, the

00:36:24.340 Republic, um, so it, it, it should be worth mentioning that, that aside from the

00:36:29.440 army, you have this very big police force in Spain called the civil guard, uh, the

00:36:33.920 Guardia Faville, who are one of the oldest police forces in the world.

00:36:37.260 They're, they're, they're more a kind of gendarmerie than a traditional Western style

00:36:40.460 sort of cop force.

00:36:42.040 Um, but they are charged with keeping order and they are, they're known to be more on

00:36:47.180 the kind of traditionalist side, but they are, they say a lot, a lot of them are more

00:36:51.820 or less, um, in favor of the, of what the Republic's doing, or at least they're,

00:36:55.500 they're, they're, they're too ambivalent to, uh, protest or in any meaningful way.

00:36:59.940 And a lot of them are quite corrupt as well, but the, the Republic actually founds a third

00:37:03.980 police force called the assault guards, um, who are a blue uniformed, um, basically heavy

00:37:10.180 police force.

00:37:10.800 You know, they're armed, they, they've got riot gear, you know, well, what, what was

00:37:14.400 riot gear in the thirties, et cetera.

00:37:15.920 And they're kind of an urban protection force for the Republic.

00:37:18.940 They are a force founded specifically to protect the, the, the integrity of the, of the Republic

00:37:25.440 as opposed to the civil guard and the army who of course are, you know, they, they, most

00:37:30.900 of their history is serving under Kings, right?

00:37:33.120 They're not used to, um, Republican constitutionalism.

00:37:36.260 So this force is designed to be explicitly loyal to the Republic.

00:37:39.520 Um, and, um, uh, uh, during a Fania's time as, as prime minister, he also, um, uh, expels

00:37:48.600 the, the, the Jesuits from Spain, um, which seems like something out of kind of the 1700s,

00:37:54.140 you know, the, the, the expulsion of the Jesuits again, but yes, he, he, he does that

00:37:58.000 because the, the, the Jesuits control, um, a lot of the best, absolutely number one independent

00:38:04.620 schools in Spain.

00:38:05.380 Um, you know, they have, they have the monopoly on kind of good education and obviously a kind

00:38:10.600 of secular leftist Republic can't have that. 0.77

00:38:12.620 So they expel the Jesuits and confiscate the schools for themselves. 0.93

00:38:16.200 Um, and, uh, the, um, the Fania government also passes several land reform laws, which

00:38:25.780 are designed to break up or to antagonize the big landowners.

00:38:30.220 Um, and this causes, you know, all kinds of upset.

00:38:33.060 The landowners begin to fund, uh, right-wing parties and such.

00:38:36.860 Um, and a Fania also reforms the army and, uh, massively cuts down the size of the officer 1.00

00:38:43.800 corps.

00:38:44.460 He, he actually shuts, um, uh, I think it's, there's the, uh, Zaragoza military academy,

00:38:52.360 um, or the general military academy, which is a new kind of big flashy military academy to

00:38:57.440 train officers in all branches of the, of the Spanish armed forces.

00:39:01.240 Um, and, and, and Fania shuts this down. 1.00

00:39:03.780 Um, and the superintendent of the college of the time was a young, um, colonel called

00:39:10.000 Francisco Franco.

00:39:11.340 Um, and for, because, and Francisco Franco adored being head of this college.

00:39:17.740 He, he, he, he, he absolutely loved being, um, a trainer of young officers.

00:39:23.500 He, he loved, he, he adored kind of running all the, the different parts of this place.

00:39:28.240 And, and it was a great point of pride for him.

00:39:30.440 And it was, it was a very great personal antagonism on him when this place was arbitrarily shut

00:39:36.100 down and it earned, uh, Fania Franco's personal enmity, which, you know, um, I'm sure I don't

00:39:42.580 need to explain why that will come back.

00:39:46.140 Um, now there's an election, the first big election since the beginning of the Republic

00:39:51.280 in 1933.

00:39:53.140 And interestingly, these elections are won in a landslide by the right wing Theda, the

00:39:58.680 confederation of the right.

00:40:00.300 Um, this is partially because the left is completely disorganized and can't form a coalition.

00:40:07.740 Um, the anarchist parties, for example, abstain completely.

00:40:11.180 Um, but also just because there's quite a lot of general, um, grumbling about the actions

00:40:16.120 of the, the, um, Republican government.

00:40:18.900 So the right kind of sweeps, sweeps, sweeps, sweeps the, um, sweeps the election and are

00:40:23.120 now the largest party in the parliament.

00:40:25.260 However, um, Alcala Zamora, the president is hesitant to actually make Theda the ruling

00:40:33.780 party, even though they have the largest number of seats by far.

00:40:36.180 Um, and instead he appoints Alejandro LaRue, who is a kind of centrist liberal, uh, party

00:40:44.780 leader as prime minister.

00:40:46.100 Now, this would basically be, um, the same as if here in the UK, let's, let's say that

00:40:53.960 the, the, the Tories win like a hundred seat majority and the king appointed the head of

00:41:02.620 like the liberal Democrat party with like 20 seats as prime minister.

00:41:06.580 You see, it's not, it's not how parliamentary government is supposed to work.

00:41:09.720 Right.

00:41:09.900 Yeah.

00:41:09.920 As an American, I'm not allowed to understand parliamentary government, but I, I can, I

00:41:14.260 can, I can the very least grasp the fact that, uh, you know, that this is not how that's

00:41:17.840 supposed to win.

00:41:18.180 This is, this is basically a stolen election, right?

00:41:20.540 Um, yeah, um, it's, it's, and this, this is of course a, this is a problem on two levels

00:41:27.200 is because one, it proves how the Republic is, is, is, well, it's not a real, it's not

00:41:32.420 a real Republic because the leaders of it or the president are too afraid to give power

00:41:39.660 to the, to the party that won the elections because the Republican establishment are terrified

00:41:45.000 of the right in general, um, and are unwilling to let them have any power, even when they win

00:41:50.040 elections, um, that may sound familiar.

00:41:52.360 Um, and, uh, the, the immediate, uh, consequence of this is that the, the FEDA tacitly agreed

00:42:02.560 to form a coalition with the radicals, but they are very, very savvy at playing politics

00:42:08.680 and they, they eventually reach. 0.88

00:42:10.900 So because Alejandro Leroux is so personally corrupt and incompetent and admits himself that

00:42:17.100 he doesn't really understand how to, how to fix Spain in any, in any way at all. 0.79

00:42:21.160 Um, he constantly gets into scandals.

00:42:24.300 Um, he constantly gets into, um, political deadlocks.

00:42:28.800 And every time he does the right wing confederation just goes, we'll get you out of this.

00:42:34.820 We'll, we'll, we'll help you if you give us another minister in the, uh, in the government.

00:42:39.680 So eventually the FEDA control, um, the agricultural ministry, the war ministry, and one other,

00:42:47.320 which I can't remember now, but we'll, we'll move on from that.

00:42:49.420 But it's, I, it may, I think it was the labor ministry actually, which is very significant

00:42:54.040 because, um, Gil, Gil Robles, who is the leader of the FEDA and, um, had, if it wasn't

00:43:00.840 for what happened, probably would have ended up as a prime minister or leader of Spain at

00:43:04.480 some point, um, he uses a, he has this very clever strategy where he kind of divides and

00:43:11.000 conquers the Spanish trade unions, where he, he, he will provoke one union into a strike,

00:43:16.940 make sure the others don't come out in favor of it.

00:43:18.960 Then use, um, the, then use an anti-strike law to crush that union basically.

00:43:23.440 And he does this one by one quite successfully breaking up a lot of quite significant Spanish 1.00

00:43:28.420 trade unions.

00:43:29.080 Um, and, uh, this goes on until 1936 and in 1936, um, the Republic is beginning to reach

00:43:39.120 a breaking point where, um, civil disorder in the streets has reached an apogee and there

00:43:46.240 are just, there are, there are all, there are just murders every single week in the, you

00:43:49.600 know, sometimes in the hundreds from political disputes, people being stabbed and shot and having

00:43:54.740 houses robbed, churches are still being attacked and burned and monks and nuns and priests are

00:43:59.640 being beaten and all sorts of atrocities are happening.

00:44:02.780 Um, and very significantly, uh, a right-wing politician is, uh, shot, um, a very prominent

00:44:09.680 right-wing politician is shot by members of the assault guards while they're in uniform.

00:44:13.860 Um, which is just basically to everyone that just looks like it's the Republic killing its

00:44:17.720 opposition.

00:44:18.280 Yeah.

00:44:18.320 They're just assassinating political opposition.

00:44:20.400 Right.

00:44:20.560 I mean, um, the, I drew a parallel with, with turnip, um, just after the, uh, Mar-a-Lago

00:44:26.680 raid in America, where I said, look, you have, you have a Republic just doing everything short

00:44:31.520 of outright, just, you know, murdering its opposition to stop them from, from being a

00:44:35.480 powerful political force.

00:44:36.360 And it's interesting because we fast forward now, uh, what is it a year and a half, nearly

00:44:40.760 two years, um, since, since that happened.

00:44:43.040 Uh, and, um, we've got now what it, it wasn't, wasn't, wasn't, um, a certain right-wing politician

00:44:50.260 in America arrested, uh, well, it's, it's only his fourth indictment, uh, Georgia here

00:44:55.840 recently, he's only got the federal run, the New York one, the Georgia, like is, they're

00:44:59.860 just stacking up, uh, he would need to live to, I think about 212 to serve all of the

00:45:05.780 possible present time, he, he could at the moment.

00:45:08.720 Yeah.

00:45:09.180 I mean, it's, it's just, um, it's, it's just, this is always when republics begin to totter

00:45:16.660 is when the establishment is just openly prescribing its, its, its, its electoral rivals.

00:45:23.180 Um, and Spain is certainly not the only time when this is, this has happened right before

00:45:27.800 some serious political turmoil has been unleashed.

00:45:30.240 Um, so it does, it does rather, it does rather, does rather worry one, I think, uh, for what's

00:45:35.040 going to happen, but we, we can only see, um, so yes, uh, so come the 1936 elections,

00:45:42.380 the left openly rigs them, um, this for, for a long time, for, for many years after the

00:45:48.120 civil war, up to, up to, up to including recent years, you, you, you have leftists and pro-republicans

00:45:53.200 going, oh, the military overthrew the democratically elected workers republic, oh, look, look, look

00:45:58.720 at these evil, you know, right-wingers, you know, overthrowing our republic, and, and

00:46:03.460 then you actually, you, you look at the facts and it's very clear from the electoral data

00:46:07.800 that the election was just openly stolen.

00:46:09.520 You know, the, the ballot boxes were stuffed all over the country by leftist political adjutants.

00:46:15.820 There were, there are all these weird stories where in some districts known to be heavily

00:46:21.160 leftist, anybody wearing a, uh, a, a suit and tie or a collar and tie were prevented from

00:46:27.600 entering the polling station.

00:46:29.300 Right.

00:46:29.940 Like any, anybody who looked even slightly well-dressed was, was prevented from going

00:46:34.620 in to vote because they might be a right-wing, right?

00:46:37.220 You see?

00:46:38.460 Um, and, uh, priests were forbidden from voting and anybody wearing clerical dress was prohibited

00:46:43.860 from voting.

00:46:44.660 In some districts, uh, women were, were, were barred from, from, from voting.

00:46:49.080 Because they voted for center-right parties too much, right?

00:46:51.980 Spanish women were overwhelmingly Catholic and, and conservative.

00:46:54.780 And what's interesting is they, they had been given the right to vote right before the

00:46:59.120 1933 election, which the right had swept in a landslide.

00:47:02.360 And a lot of leftists blamed women for that. 1.00

00:47:05.380 They said, all these women are too, too traditionalist, too right-wing. 1.00

00:47:09.180 They vote how their husbands tell them. 1.00

00:47:10.540 They all went out and voted for the Catholic parties.

00:47:13.060 So we had, so in some districts, women were told by leftist militants to stay home or they

00:47:18.460 would be escorted home.

00:47:19.380 If you catch my meaning.

00:47:20.180 This is the, this is the inversion of the American suffragette, uh, suffragette, uh, scenario 0.66

00:47:24.980 here.

00:47:25.600 Yeah, basically.

00:47:26.860 The right is winning through the empowerment of the female vote. 0.83

00:47:30.000 Yeah.

00:47:31.180 Um, and, uh, the left, um, did, despite all the ballot stuffing and corruption, the left

00:47:39.100 only win by a tiny margin anyway.

00:47:41.480 Um, the popular front only wins by a tiny margin.

00:47:43.660 Um, and they immediately take this as, oh, well, the, the, the revolution is here.

00:47:51.100 It's happened. 0.70

00:47:51.720 We've done it where, you know, to, to, to, to, to, to hell with all this Republican 0.68

00:47:55.300 laughing, this is Spain is a leftist country now. 0.92

00:47:58.360 And they, they parade around, you know, there's even more burning of churches and killing of

00:48:02.860 priests.

00:48:03.740 Prisons are opened and all the inmates are let out onto the streets.

00:48:06.500 Um, right-wing politicians are like assaulted and barricaded into their homes.

00:48:10.460 And there's, you know, assaults on property, on landowners, on factories, you know, chaos

00:48:15.740 just begins to envelop the country.

00:48:17.980 Um, and in July, 1936, a group of military officers decide that things have gone too far

00:48:22.600 and organize a coup d'etat.

00:48:25.340 And the coup, uh, is unsuccessful, um, partially because in a lot of areas, the military units

00:48:32.300 are overwhelmed by, uh, leftist mobs before they can leave the barracks, but they do manage

00:48:37.700 to capture the large chunk of Western Spain and the African protectorates.

00:48:42.140 And we all know what happens from that.

00:48:43.880 You have the civil war.

00:48:44.660 Um, so that very briefly is the rundown of, of, of the timeline of events, but should we

00:48:49.580 perhaps sort of talk about the, the, the parallels between some things we've seen in modern times

00:48:54.140 and what went on in the Republic?

00:48:55.760 I mean, what, what, what are, what are your kind of, um, broad thoughts on, on this, this

00:49:01.440 sort of, this, this overview of the Republic?

00:49:03.280 Yeah, no, I mean, absolutely.

00:49:05.040 Like you said, there's, there's, you know, we've already hit on some of these, but it's

00:49:08.720 very clear that, uh, the escalation of, uh, mob violence allowed in the streets, uh, after

00:49:16.500 we look at the, the, you know, what's been allowed in the, was allowed in the United States,

00:49:21.140 uh, during the lockdowns and, uh, you know, COVID, uh, mass rioting allowed while the, you

00:49:27.980 know, one right wing response immediately becomes, uh, you know, the next 9-11.

00:49:33.260 And the, the state starts locking up anybody who happened to be standing, you know, 200

00:49:38.000 miles away from, from the event.

00:49:40.160 Yeah.

00:49:40.680 Um, so, so we obviously see that that is a huge, uh, issue, uh, the, the, not even allowed

00:49:46.760 to question electoral efficacy at this point, obviously they're, they're attempting to, uh,

00:49:52.420 arrest and imprison, uh, you know, uh, uh, the majority, uh, or the, the major, uh, political

00:49:58.860 opposition, uh, by, you know, just for saying, you know, maybe these things didn't go down

00:50:03.460 the way they're supposed to, uh, these are things that I think are, are pretty obviously,

00:50:08.320 uh, testing the limits of, uh, kind of the durability of the, the democratic myth, the

00:50:14.040 Republican, uh, the idea that you can hold the Republic together.

00:50:17.800 Yeah.

00:50:18.580 Um, I think it's especially worth, um, pointing out the, uh, the, uh, summer of fentanyl, as

00:50:26.180 I call it, um, without wanting to get straight too far from acceptable language.

00:50:30.440 But, um, that struck me, um, particularly when it happened, because of course, as you

00:50:35.160 say, it was, it was during the supposed, um, uh, pandemic in which everyone was supposed

00:50:40.240 to be, you know, staying inside.

00:50:42.620 And if you went outside, your, your grandma would die, you know, type thing. 0.99

00:50:45.820 And, um, and of course, you know, that, that went on for, for however long it did.

00:50:50.080 And, and, uh, very few people were punished for it.

00:50:53.000 Whereas, as you say, the, the January 6th incident, you know, people are quite literally

00:50:57.160 being hounded and, you know, they're going to be stuck in court for, you know, decade.

00:51:01.400 A lot of those people's lives are basically just ruined, don't they?

00:51:03.920 I mean, you know, they're not, there's no easy way out of that.

00:51:06.500 Oh yeah.

00:51:06.700 Well, I mean, the, the, the most amazing part of this now is, uh, they're going after Trump's

00:51:10.780 lawyers, right?

00:51:11.640 So people like Jenna Ellis are being named in these indictments. 0.82

00:51:15.160 And so now you, you can't even as a opposing political, uh, opposing politician in the

00:51:21.020 United States, probably even get legal representation anymore because anybody who, uh, is, uh, anybody 0.80

00:51:26.380 who is foolish enough to give you legal advice could be a co-conspirator.

00:51:30.780 Uh, you know, and again, whether these people get, uh, convicted or not, they're going to spend 0.97

00:51:35.460 hundreds of thousands of dollars, uh, you know, in their own, in their own legal defense.

00:51:39.760 Uh, so there'll be ruined financially though.

00:51:42.080 And there'll be destroyed professionally, even if they don't actually serve time.

00:51:45.540 So the, you know, the effect is the same.

00:51:48.020 And we all know that the, the, the, the legalist reasoning that they give is not the real reasoning

00:51:52.460 behind it.

00:51:53.040 Right.

00:51:53.240 They're, they're not going after Trump's lawyers just because, oh, well, you know, it, it could

00:52:00.220 be a co-conspiratorial thing.

00:52:01.400 They're going after them because they want to make it impossible for him to have legal

00:52:04.400 defense, right.

00:52:05.120 Or anybody in that sort of that stripe to have legal defense.

00:52:07.700 And it's, it's, it's, it's, again, we, we have to highlight the danger of when republics

00:52:12.840 begin to act like this, because it is the end of them as formal republics, as, as respectable

00:52:18.400 political entities.

00:52:19.320 They, that, that, that, that is when they, because how do you go back from this?

00:52:23.860 If the, the, the, the, the oligarchy that is, that is currently sat atop American politics,

00:52:30.200 that controls everything.

00:52:31.140 They don't, they don't care about, they don't care about America or the constitution or any

00:52:37.040 of these things that, that are often brought up in American political discussion.

00:52:40.520 They don't give a damn about any of that.

00:52:42.140 It's just about power and how they maintain it.

00:52:44.860 They don't care what happens to the country or, or what it, or, or, or what it looks like.

00:52:48.780 And this, and if you want to see a, a scarily, um, approximate blueprint of, of how these people

00:52:56.400 operate and the things they will do, um, the, the book I record people have been asking

00:53:00.220 me in the chat about books to recommend the absolute number one best source for the collapse

00:53:04.360 of the Republic is, um, Stanley G Payne's, the collapse of the second Spanish Republic.

00:53:11.040 Um, it's a very, very good book.

00:53:13.580 Um, there, there are PDFs of it out there as well.

00:53:16.720 Um, if you, if you do want to get hold of, I don't know if it's an academic book, so hard

00:53:20.580 copies might be a bit expensive, but there are, there are copies, um, out, uh, around.

00:53:24.820 Like I obviously can't, um, I can't be out on, on stream, uh, promoting free copy,

00:53:29.400 but, uh, so you might be able to find it.

00:53:32.160 I might, I may be able to find it if I dig around.

00:53:34.000 Um, but yeah, that, that is the number one source for this.

00:53:36.980 And as well, just, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the infighting leading up to the civil

00:53:42.340 war reminds me of what I see in America.

00:53:44.860 I mean, I don't know if you heard, um, AA, uh, recently on a stream mentioned that he went

00:53:49.720 on a cruise and there were a lot of Americans on the boat and there were like some, uh, some

00:53:55.540 like African Americans and there was some like, uh, sort of, um, I think he said like, uh,

00:54:01.040 East coast elite types, I think.

00:54:02.600 And, and he said that what was remarkable is the absolute just open hatred these two groups

00:54:06.780 had for each other, where they just, they wouldn't talk to each other.

00:54:09.300 They were just openly insulting each other and like just screaming insults.

00:54:13.020 And it, it, it reminds me a little bit of, um, like, especially when, whenever I hear

00:54:17.620 about like some, uh, like some, like this, there'll always be some screenshot or some

00:54:25.340 news report or recording or of like some American, like pro Democrat or leftist or whatever, just

00:54:32.520 openly talking about like, you know, how, um, well, all these, all these, you know, American, 0.99

00:54:37.440 uh, Republican voting Christians, they just need to die. 1.00

00:54:41.100 You know, we just need to get rid of them, you know, all this kind of talk, you know, 1.00

00:54:44.000 and just, just sort of openly genocidal talk and this kind of thing.

00:54:46.880 And I mean, once every two months, at least Joe Biden goes out and talks about how easy

00:54:51.960 it would be to like murder anybody who disagreed with it.

00:54:55.400 Like, don't worry, I've got, uh, I've, you know, I've got jets. 0.96

00:54:58.180 I can, I can, I can use drones to snipe you.

00:55:00.620 Like, or, or, or like when, uh, after that terrible, um, shooting in that school committed

00:55:06.440 by, uh, uh, uh, a deranged, um, a deranged individual who thought that they were the

00:55:12.300 opposite sex, um, that like, I believe he started the press conference with a joke.

00:55:17.500 Um, clearly this wasn't, uh, this wasn't really any sort of serious issue for him.

00:55:22.440 I gotta say, yeah, I, I, I, I knew that the left hated us, but it was, uh, it was an amazing

00:55:32.080 thing to watch them just stand up and basically say like, well, man, those Christian kids, 1.00

00:55:36.480 they deserve it.

00:55:37.240 You know, at the end of the day, they were really asking for it and, uh, they, they got

00:55:41.900 what that was coming to them.

00:55:43.260 That was, that was an amazing moment.

00:55:45.420 If you read any history of Spain leading up to the civil war, this kind of talk happens

00:55:49.460 every two pages.

00:55:50.500 People say this kind of thing.

00:55:51.580 I mean, and just, just like in Spain, in America now, there are, there are high level

00:55:57.120 politicians, even the president who use this kind of rhetoric, just openly, openly

00:56:01.500 hating, openly, ah, we don't just, uh, it would be so much better if they just weren't

00:56:05.320 here, you know, that, that kind of rhetoric.

00:56:07.000 Um, and in fact, there was, um, there was a, a BBC documentary on the civil war from the

00:56:13.420 1970s, um, which is on YouTube.

00:56:15.800 I think it's, it's annoyingly pro pro leftist, but there's a very interesting interview in

00:56:20.020 it where they're interviewing, um, uh, an old ex, um, phalangist, which was the kind

00:56:25.540 of, um, I want to say it was the fascist party, but it, you, uh, Spanish fascism cannot

00:56:31.460 be compared to Italian fascism or to national socialism in Germany.

00:56:35.040 They're very, very different thing and thing entirely, but, but it turns out that these

00:56:38.840 nationalist movements were specific to the nation.

00:56:41.900 Yeah.

00:56:42.160 It was, it was much, much more heavily Catholic.

00:56:44.280 It was much more kind of radically conservative, if that makes sense.

00:56:47.700 It was, it was, it was, it was kind of, um, just the radical approach to, to Spanish

00:56:52.040 traditionalism.

00:56:53.080 Um, and they were interviewing a man who was very old by then, but in his teen years, he

00:56:58.540 had been a member of the, um, phalangist party, um, that he had been to all the youth

00:57:03.280 groups.

00:57:03.560 I mean, back, back, back then the Spanish equivalent of being sort of a boy scout was

00:57:09.460 just being a member of the local political youth.

00:57:11.200 You know, you'd either be a, a young Marxist or a, or a young conservative or a young fascist,

00:57:15.660 you know, that was just how it was.

00:57:17.040 And he said that, um, he remembers in 1936, he was walking down the street one day in his

00:57:21.560 home city.

00:57:22.000 And, um, he said that in those days, when I saw a man who I knew to be a socialist or

00:57:28.560 a communist, he said, I wasn't looking at a person who was a socialist.

00:57:32.420 I was looking at the devil himself, like that you didn't see, you didn't see a person.

00:57:36.820 You just saw pure, just the, the enemy, just all you saw was an enemy.

00:57:42.000 And he said that that's how we all felt about each other.

00:57:44.660 He said, there was no, there was no regard for the kind of normal, uh, sort of peaceful

00:57:51.680 sort of political social connections people have.

00:57:54.440 It was just, it was just this constant feeling that something was going to have to be done

00:57:58.740 soon to destroy the other side, or it was all going to just be over, you know?

00:58:02.340 And that, that is what strikes me is particularly analogous to America now is the way people talk

00:58:06.960 about each other.

00:58:08.120 Yeah, absolutely.

00:58:09.180 Yeah.

00:58:09.360 It's a, it's a unsettling, uh, parallel to draw obviously for, for many reasons, but

00:58:15.300 I think that these periods in history are incredibly important.

00:58:18.760 I think this is one that again, most, especially Americans don't know almost anything about.

00:58:23.920 And when they do, it's only in its, it's vague connections to a world war, uh, to it, it doesn't

00:58:29.660 have any context in its own.

00:58:31.480 So that's why I wanted to have you on.

00:58:32.600 Cause like you said, I think there, there are a lot of unfortunate, uh, you know, connections

00:58:37.260 to much of what we're seeing now.

00:58:39.060 And I think, uh, you know, his history is important for that reason that it can always

00:58:42.720 give us context and understanding for how these things have gone in the past and the

00:58:47.120 hopes that, uh, they, they can go somewhat better in the future, but, uh, we are coming

00:58:50.960 up for our hour now and we do have some questions from the people.

00:58:55.020 So, uh, before we pivot over to, uh, audience questions, can you let people know, uh, where

00:59:00.680 they can find your work and, uh, you know, do you have anything coming up that they should

00:59:03.980 be looking forward to?

00:59:04.700 Um, I, you can see my, uh, channel, which is just, uh, Panama hat.

00:59:09.260 It's probably linked down below.

00:59:10.560 Um, and there's my Twitter, which is at verse by hat.

00:59:13.140 Um, again, I've, I've been very, very, uh, busy in my personal life of late.

00:59:17.620 So I haven't been putting out as much online stuff, but there, but there will be more,

00:59:20.540 more videos, more content.

00:59:21.540 Um, my friend, uh, and I are working on an authoritative English translation of the aphorisms

00:59:28.780 of Nicholas Gomez Davila, um, which, uh, is not going to be out for quite a long time

00:59:33.720 yet, obviously, but, uh, uh, we're making some quite good progress in that regard and

00:59:37.780 getting it all set up.

00:59:38.880 Um, and, uh, that is pretty much it.

00:59:42.280 Um, I will have some quite big things to promote soon as I keep saying to people, but,

00:59:46.400 but, uh, not, not just yet.

00:59:48.460 Well, once you're ready for that, maybe we'll have you on for another, uh, history episode

00:59:52.700 and you, you can, uh, let us know.

00:59:54.300 Absolutely.

00:59:54.800 Anytime.

00:59:55.560 Absolutely.

00:59:56.060 All right.

00:59:56.340 So to our questions here, uh, based, uh, Joe for one 99, uh, I'm just here to give you

01:00:03.120 my money.

01:00:03.740 Well, thank you very much, sir.

01:00:04.920 I appreciate it.

01:00:06.320 Uh, let's see, uh, Tex-Mex for $5.

01:00:09.480 Uh, the Carlos were the real organizers of the civil war.

01:00:12.940 Uh, generals Sanjuri, uh, I'm not going to pronounce any of this right.

01:00:17.040 Just just.

01:00:17.400 Sanjuri Hall.

01:00:18.560 Absolutely.

01:00:19.000 Exactly.

01:00:19.520 Just what I was about to say.

01:00:20.560 How did you know?

01:00:21.700 Uh, and Molo with Manuel Falcande and Don Javert, uh, organized the uprising.

01:00:29.880 Um, I don't know if I completely agree with that statement.

01:00:33.020 The Carlos were very instrumental because once the uprising got going and the nationalists 0.90

01:00:38.440 needed manpower, the very first people to volunteer en masse for the cause were the

01:00:44.740 Carlos.

01:00:45.000 Um, they, you have to remember that there were, there were young men whose grandfathers

01:00:49.100 had fought in the actual Carlos laws, um, who's, who's, you know, they still had their

01:00:53.040 old muskets and rifles hanging on the wall above the fireplace, you know?

01:00:56.080 And as soon as the coup started, these young men all came out with their, with their red 0.60

01:01:00.760 berets to come and fight for the cause, you know, to make Spain Catholic again, make straight, 0.98

01:01:04.700 make Spain traditional again.

01:01:06.180 Um, so I wouldn't say that the Carlos were the big organizers.

01:01:08.580 I think that was mainly Molo and, um, a lot of the really more intelligent members of the

01:01:13.060 high command, but yes, the Carlos were a gigantic, um, help and aid in the civil war.

01:01:18.440 And I'll not, I agree that not enough credit is, um, is, is, is given to them.

01:01:23.100 Uh, textbacks again for $5, by the way, the Carlos are still active and have circles in

01:01:27.820 Hispanic America here in Texas.

01:01:29.880 There is, uh, the Camino Real Day Tejas Carlos circle, uh, check us out.

01:01:36.460 All right.

01:01:36.860 So I had no idea about that.

01:01:38.640 Um, still kind of a fraternal type, uh, order over there.

01:01:42.140 The Carlos are still going in Spain, but they're not as, uh, based as they used to be.

01:01:46.380 Unfortunately, they have, uh, they have wetted a bit over the years.

01:01:49.340 I think the O'Sullivan's law comes for everybody.

01:01:52.680 Yeah.

01:01:53.480 Um, even the Carlos, uh, Prince of Parma for $10.

01:01:56.380 Carlos, please continue the series where the Ryan turnip seed.

01:01:59.280 Yes.

01:01:59.380 I've heard Epic things about the, the, uh, the Ryan.

01:02:03.940 I, I really, well, the thing is that that was meant to be like the sort of, uh, like the

01:02:08.560 sort of soft warmup for the, for a big multi-stream series on Spain.

01:02:13.560 I think the problem is I, I would be free to do that, but he is currently, I believe

01:02:17.500 embroiled in, um, uh, struggle with his church.

01:02:20.800 Isn't he?

01:02:21.480 He's got quite a lot going on right now.

01:02:23.420 He's got a lot of things in his personal.

01:02:24.640 I'm like, I don't think he currently has the time, which is a great shame, but I'm

01:02:27.300 sure once, you know, I, I, I do, I do pray for him quite a lot because he is really putting

01:02:31.640 up a hard fight over that.

01:02:33.180 Um, and I hope once he's in the clear from that, um, we're able to continue, but yes,

01:02:36.880 I, I greatly enjoyed, uh, those regular streams.

01:02:40.100 Yeah.

01:02:40.520 I've had Ryan on multiple times.

01:02:41.940 Obviously he's very knowledgeable, uh, and, uh, he's a great, uh, conversation partner.

01:02:46.240 So, uh, well worth it.

01:02:47.700 If nothing else, perhaps we will, we will continue some, some streams along this line.

01:02:51.920 Uh, and, uh, Tex-Mex again here for $2, Carlos Motto, uh, the Carlos Motto, God, Fatherland,

01:02:58.420 King, and, uh, how do we say this?

01:03:00.800 Fueros.

01:03:01.460 Ah, there we go.

01:03:02.500 Which means kind of, it's, there's no direct translation, but it means kind of like local

01:03:07.780 privileges or like municipal privileges.

01:03:09.680 Because like, obviously in a, in a medieval feudal society, each, each town, each, each

01:03:16.020 province, each people tend to have their own legal codes and their own laws.

01:03:20.280 This, this, this whole idea of one country with one constitution and, and, and sort of

01:03:25.000 set of laws is quite new, um, for most of human history, each, each area and each, each

01:03:31.080 kind of group had its own privileges and its own, its own understandings, its own customs,

01:03:34.980 which the, which the king would respect, right?

01:03:36.920 That's, that's what, that's what they mean by Fueros is, um, kind of a type of legal,

01:03:42.120 traditional legal particularism.

01:03:44.240 Excellent.

01:03:44.480 All right.

01:03:44.800 Well, we are learning everything here, guys.

01:03:47.040 All right.

01:03:47.300 We're going to go ahead and wrap this up, but I want to, of course, thank Panama Hat, uh,

01:03:52.260 so much for coming on, uh, excellent work.

01:03:54.700 Please make sure to check out his YouTube channel, follow him on, him on Twitter, and

01:03:58.900 hopefully we'll, uh, have him back on here soon for some more history.

01:04:03.160 Do you, do you mind if I just say two more things?

01:04:04.880 Oh, no, absolutely.

01:04:05.560 Go ahead.

01:04:05.760 I've, a few people have been asking me, um, so yes, as I said, the best book on the

01:04:09.900 collapse of the Republic is Stanley Paine's The Collapse of the Second Spanish Republic.

01:04:14.180 Um, Duke Valentino, um, the movie While at War is worth a watch.

01:04:18.260 Um, it's very interesting and gives quite an interesting insight into how the coup unfolded

01:04:22.920 to destroy the Republic.

01:04:24.620 Um, and, uh, uh, Voltaire Dento a Tallinn Krieg, uh, that we, we, we, we have, um, we have

01:04:32.280 some academic funding, um, for that project, so it should be, it should be a good one.

01:04:36.420 Um, in, in introspection about the international brigades, um, the best book to read about that

01:04:42.200 is, uh, George Orwell's, um, book, On March to Catalonia, which, uh, even though he was

01:04:47.260 a leftist, that tells you all about how, how riven with factionalism the leftists were.

01:04:51.460 But, and also part of the reason that the Republicans lost is because the, um, leftists

01:04:57.980 were too busy fighting between themselves, um, to fight Franco.

01:05:02.700 And by the end of the war, they hated each other so much, they would rather live in Franco's 0.52

01:05:06.380 Spain than in, uh, the opposing leftist faction, Spain.

01:05:09.640 It was so wild, again, when I, like, I remember when I first learned about the Spanish, uh, the

01:05:14.620 Spanish Civil War, and just, like, these communists boast, like, they, they ended up losing

01:05:19.160 because, uh, you know, fights because, like, these communist boats would just refuse to

01:05:23.380 go and fight, like, they would just, they would take a boat and not go.

01:05:27.340 And, like, it's just comical, like, it's, it's, it's if you were gonna make some kind

01:05:31.020 of, uh, farce about communists trying to go to war, like, that would be it.

01:05:35.020 Terrible, terrible.

01:05:35.500 Um, also, I, I recommend the book, um, The Victorious Counter-Revolution, um, which is

01:05:40.520 all about how the nationalists won through economic factors.

01:05:44.620 It's almost like an economics book about the war, which basically says that in the, in the,

01:05:48.840 in the nationalist area, there was absolute order.

01:05:51.940 The nationalists was very good at keeping law and order wherever they were, right?

01:05:56.220 They, that you would, if, if you were, like, if you lived in a, in a town that was captured

01:06:01.420 on day one of the coup and wasn't ever on the front line, you would barely even know there

01:06:05.560 was a civil war, right?

01:06:06.660 The nationalists made sure the food was there.

01:06:09.040 There was still alcohol.

01:06:10.380 The trains ran on time.

01:06:11.180 Luxuries.

01:06:11.540 The trains were on time.

01:06:12.560 Supplies got in.

01:06:13.340 There was power and petrol.

01:06:15.400 There was order.

01:06:16.780 It was in the Republican zone, chaos.

01:06:18.840 Um, I know we're running out of time, but I wanted to tell one of my favorite anecdotes

01:06:22.320 about, uh, about the civil war, which is, um, up in, up in Navarre, Navarre, which is a

01:06:27.820 region up in the North of Spain, um, quite heavily carless.

01:06:31.340 Um, in fact, uh, in, in, in, in the famous city of, uh, Pamplona, where they have the bull

01:06:35.820 run every year, when they heard that the coup was happening, they celebrated it as a festival.

01:06:40.040 Um, they brought out all the music and bands and everything.

01:06:43.080 Um, it was up there where the, where the front line was, um, during one particularly harsh winter.

01:06:48.200 The nationalist troops there had access to a very large local food supply and they ate

01:06:53.480 these very sumptuous dinners every night with, you know, rice and, and all these, you know,

01:06:58.040 multiple courses and wine and, and, and, and, and sweets and things.

01:07:02.060 And it was a very, very, very sumptuous dinner to get you through the winter.

01:07:05.220 Whereas the Republican troops on the other side were, were freezing to death on, you know,

01:07:09.600 the most meager rations, if they had any at all.

01:07:12.240 Um, and the nationalists in that sector came up with a tactic where they, they set up these

01:07:16.780 big loudspeakers all down the front line and every night they would broadcast their dinner

01:07:21.100 menu across the front line to the Republican troops.

01:07:25.640 And Republican troops were defecting in the hundreds basically when they heard this, because

01:07:31.060 it doesn't matter how much of a motivated fighter you are of any ideology.

01:07:34.900 Once, once your stomach's empty and it's freezing and you're, you know, you haven't eaten in

01:07:39.460 three days and everything's rubbish, it's becomes very tempting to the fact that if you know

01:07:43.520 the enemy has all these rich reserves of, uh, food and supplies and everything is much better

01:07:47.500 organized, you know?

01:07:48.680 Absolutely.

01:07:49.600 Yeah.

01:07:50.240 No, that's nice.

01:07:51.400 Also, I want to say hi to, I can never, I don't know how to say his name because I'd never

01:07:54.280 learned any Greek, but, uh, the chap with the Greek name in the chat who, who is a regular

01:07:58.360 of the turnip streams.

01:07:59.260 I want to say hi to him.

01:08:00.440 Okay.

01:08:00.840 Excellent.

01:08:01.120 All right.

01:08:01.500 Well, let's go ahead and wrap it up then again.

01:08:03.860 Thanks everybody for coming by.

01:08:05.540 Uh, if it's your first time here on the channel, make sure that you go ahead and subscribe.

01:08:08.860 And if you'd like to get these broadcasts as podcasts, you can of course, listen to the

01:08:13.040 Orrin McIntyre show on your favorite podcast platform.

01:08:16.020 All right, guys, we'll see you all, uh, later and I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - August 17, 2023

Causes of the Spanish Civil War ｜ Guest： Panama Hat ｜ 8⧸17⧸23

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