Criminalizing Masculinity ｜ Guest： Andrew Isker ｜ 4⧸1⧸24
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 13 minutes
Words per Minute
194.06036
Summary
Author Andrew Isker joins me to discuss his new book, The Boniface Option, which explores the need for men to step up to the plate when it comes to public safety, especially in the face of rampant crime in urban areas.
Transcript
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We hope you're enjoying your Air Canada flight.
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Fast-free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land.
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Wi-Fi available to Airplane members on Equipped Flight.
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I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.
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So, a lot of people here, we're looking at New York.
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There have been these outcries because there has been a lot of violence there.
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We know crime is getting worse in many urban areas, particularly in New York,
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But specifically, there have been a lot of crimes against women.
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And all of a sudden, many women, even those in political positions, are saying,
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I think we probably can understand that there are a lot of incentives that have been switched
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around changing the way that people behave in society and have made things very dangerous
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Coming on today to join me and talk about this subject is the author of The Boniface Option,
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But before we get started, can you tell everybody a little bit about what you do?
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I'm a pastor in a small town, rural Minnesota of a small evangelical church in Waseka, Minnesota.
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And yeah, so a lot of the topics I discuss are things like this, you know, masculinity
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and just broader culture and how much things have radically changed in the last 50 or 60
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You know, most of us aren't really familiar with it.
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We don't really think about it because you're born into the situation that you're in, right?
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Probably a good chunk of the people watching your show are born after like 9-11 or were
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And they're just, they're part of this milieu and they don't even realize that the world
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60 or 70 years ago was radically different than what we have now.
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And there's very little historical perspective about how messed up things are.
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And so I, yeah, I like to write about those things, talk about those things, you know,
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show that the world that we live in today has been manufactured to be this way.
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And this topic in particular, right, just rampant crime where nobody is really allowed to do
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This is not the normal situation that people have had for millennia, right?
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When you have problems like this, you deal with them.
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And, and so, yeah, I'm excited to discuss all these things with you here today.
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Like I said, I knew that it was important to bring you on to talk about this because when
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we are in this situation, like you said, this is not an accident.
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We've set up a particular way that we have structured our culture to come to this inevitability.
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But all of a sudden we have a lot of people standing around saying, what happened?
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They want to call back to a time period that they have decried, that they've demonized.
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They want to bring forth men from a time that they have thrown away and they want them
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to, to enter into a world that they've created and save them from the consequences of many
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So I want to dive into what's happening in New York, the responses to that, what, what
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could be done, why we got in this situation, and of course your book.
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So I want to give people some context for what we're going to be talking about here.
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I'm sure a lot of people have seen these kind of videos making the rounds on social media.
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He's screaming at people or he's intimidating people.
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Maybe he's even actively hitting a woman, something like that, something terrible.
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And all of a sudden, we get a lot of people on social media saying, what are these men
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Why aren't these men in the subway protecting women?
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And of course, like I said, we see this pop up all the time online.
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She's apparently on the New York City Council, Amanda Ferris.
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And she just said this, that there's a post from the Women's Caucus that says, you know,
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there's attacks against women in lower Manhattan.
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We can't believe that there are all these attacks against women, these violent outbreaks against
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And she says, where are all the men calling this out?
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It allows me to recall events from more than 10 seconds in the past.
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And I remember distinctly when Daniel Penny, a former Marine, I believe, who defended a
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subway full of people, there's a homeless man screaming about the violence he was going
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And he attempted to defend the lives and the well-being of people in that car.
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And when he went ahead and restrained a man, the man ended up dying, unfortunately.
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But, you know, that's what happens sometimes whenever you take your life into your own
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hands when you put people in a violent situation.
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But Daniel Penny was not trying to kill the man.
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And Daniel Penny is now facing a second-degree manslaughter charge.
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He's supposed to stand trial, I believe, in October for this charge.
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And for some reason, after attempting to arrest a heroic man who tried to protect women and
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others in a very similar scenario, nobody wants to risk their lives and their livelihood and
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I just don't understand what happened to all of them.
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And, I mean, it's similar, you know, the Daniel Penny story is also similar just with crime
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in general in the country with, you know, the whole, you know, defunding the police situation.
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And then, you know, you try, you know, not only Derek Chauvin, but the other policemen
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that were there and put them in prison for, you know, essentially doing their jobs.
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Like, one, he was just doing crowd control and he's in prison for, like, three years, right?
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And then they're like, why doesn't anyone want to be a policeman anymore?
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If you criminalize, you know, men doing their job, protecting their communities, and also
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ordinary citizens who are standing up for the people around them, their neighbors, this
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And so everybody sees that and they know, I don't want to go to prison, so I'm just going
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I'm not going to stick my neck out for anybody.
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And it's, you know, just basic, you know, anarcho-tyranny where you can allow crime to
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Almost actively promoting it, but then the hammer comes down at anybody who tries to stop
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These are policy decisions that have been made.
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And so, you know, it's ironic that, yeah, this councilwoman says this and other people
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But I mean, it's almost like the, the point of, you know, maybe this has happened to you
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before it's happened to me where like, you hope I was raised, you hold the door open when
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you're walking into a building for, for other people, especially for women.
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And I've had people give me dirty looks or even say things to me, especially women, when
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Like what, I can hold the door open myself, right?
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And then what happens is why don't, why don't men hold the doors open for women anymore?
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Like the same people that are decrying it and saying, this is, this is misogyny to hold
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And they, so they want, you know, they want their cake and, and to eat it too, right?
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They want to have this egalitarian society where there's no distinctions between men
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But then at the same time, they also want men to be very chivalrous and, and, and very
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respectful of women and, and hold women up on a pedestal like, like they did in the, in
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You can't have both of those things at the same time.
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And this is just a natural, right, you know, normal response.
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This is, this is how all human societies everywhere have, have operated, understanding that men
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and women are different, that men are stronger and that they have a duty to, to defend the
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And, and so there's, there's a freak out about that.
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And so, you know, there's, it's just this catch 22, right?
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If you don't defend them, they complain about how, how horrible you are, how you don't defend
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women, how you don't care about their suffering.
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And I don't, I don't exactly know how it changes, right?
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I don't know how, you know, men like, like Daniel Penny aren't going to do the things
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It's amazing how this is, this is just the personification of C.S.
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You, you, you, you, you castrate the gilding and then ask it to bear fruit, right?
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Like how, how can, you know, you, how can you not protect me after I spent all of my
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Talking about how your ability to, you know, do something physical to, to, to master that
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kind of, uh, that kind of space to have that level of aggression.
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But why, why aren't you now out here doing the very thing I've taught you not to do?
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We spend all of our time, uh, teaching every, uh, male, especially, you know, public school,
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Conflict resolution is always completely emotional, right?
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You'll notice that in that post from that council woman, even the, the, uh, the call to action for
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It's why aren't, why aren't you calling this out as if, as if some guy who said she was
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helping women on a train is like, Oh, I got a stern lecture.
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I I'll probably call this up, but this really is the, the understanding when you think that
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every interaction, it can kind of, you can, you can just kind of school marm people into
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And I think another big part of this is that a lot of, when, when you turn men and women
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It's all men versus all women, instead of understanding that actually, uh, you, you're
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Like, sorry, you're not actually going to like, you know, G word, half of the population.
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And so what, what's going to happen is you can have good men protect you from bad men,
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but you're never going to just get rid of the violence of men.
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And any attempt to do so is actually going to have more horrific results than you can
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And we ended up in situations like this where all the good men are completely in, you know,
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frozen, unable to act in this anarcho tyrannical situation.
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Like you're explaining and all the women are like, well, I don't understand what, you know,
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why, why are you doing this thing that I know deep down you're, you should be doing for
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me, but yeah, I, but we, we've removed all reason for you to do so.
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Like, I mean, yeah, I'm glad you brought up the framing that, that she made, right?
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It's like, well, if I said something, the guy's going to attack me and I'm going to
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be in a fight and there's going to be violence, right?
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I mean, especially like you bring up, I, I remember, I went to public school.
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I remember being in grade school and being told that, that violence is never the answer
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that you just need to talk about your feelings and you, you, you'll be in trouble.
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I remember thinking like, if I ever threw a punch in school, like they would just put
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me in jail immediately in like third grade, right?
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That's what you're, you're taught that you can never do that.
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And like the answer to bullying, like when I was in middle school, I was bullied a lot.
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And I remember telling my dad, um, who is a, you know, wonderful boomer.
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And, uh, and he just told me, well, when these people are being mean to you, Andrew, just,
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And if you get called into the principal's office or you're suspended or whatever, that's
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And, um, and I'm grateful that I had a father like that, that, that, that told me those
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things to stand up for yourself because most people didn't, most people don't, they, they
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internalize these things throughout, throughout a lifetime of being told, no, be a good boy.
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And then we reach a point like this where, where nobody does.
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And the rare few like, like Daniel Penny, um, they face consequences for it.
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And, and so how do you, how do you break out of these things?
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I mean, I know if, if something like Daniel Penny's situation happened in my town, um, you
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know, very rural, very, I mean, it's a, I'm in Minnesota, so it's a blue state.
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So Keith Ellison could always change the location of a trial and do those things.
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But if it were in my County, they wouldn't even charge him, right?
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They would, they would, they would let him go, right?
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And so, I mean, some of it is, you know, you need to be in a geographic location where
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Um, I didn't, I would not want to live in New York city for, for this reason or, or Minneapolis
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even, um, I, I would not want to be in those places for the sake of, of myself and my family.
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And, um, so like the Daniel Penny thing signals, like, get out, get out of these places.
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I mean, it's ironic because it happened like right after the big controversy with, uh, the
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And it's like, yeah, get, get out of these places.
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Cause you're not going to be able to defend yourself, yourself against crime.
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Like, even if you try to, the hammer will come down on you and you see, I mean, you see
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like New York city this past week, um, you know, and all, and all of these things really
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got overshadowed by other controversies, du jour, um, from the past week.
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But you, you had that, that police officer who was killed by a guy who had been arrested
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And, and a guy that should have just been locked up forever.
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Um, that, that policeman never should have been killed.
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Um, because like this, this guy should have been locked away and the key thrown away years
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Um, and, and so a lot of this stuff is like the, the will to deal with crime doesn't exist.
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And some of it, I think, I mean, you just go back to, you know, the mostly peaceful summer
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of 2020 and, and the eruption of crime that, that happened after that, uh, the will to deal
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There was this, um, like weaponized empathy that was, was wielded where it's like, oh
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This is, this is the new Jim Crow and, and they're just getting a raw deal because of
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And it's like, no, no, these are criminals that need to be dealt with.
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And, and, uh, and so, yeah, a lot of it, I mean, is this, is this feminine frame?
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I mean, you see it online, you know, people talk about the long house and, and that's, that's
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Like that, that tweet from that, that city council woman, it really embodies that, that,
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um, we're, we're going to Hector you, we're going to lecture you.
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We're going to be, um, you're going to be under our thumb.
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And then when you don't do it, what we think you should do, uh, we're going to complain about
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Um, and that just, it totally dominates the, the, the entire structure of society where,
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you know, there, there is no like masculine virtue that is allowed to, um, that's allowed
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to even develop much less be expressed in situations like this.
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And so the, the overcoming of it will be, men will have to, uh, summon the will to, to do
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things that must be done to, to deal with crime, to deal with criminals.
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And, and I think it, it, it largely will be expressed in the, the, you know, I don't want
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to say great, I mean, people use the phrase great divorce, but really just this, this sifting
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of America between the two Americas that exist and the, the good America, the real America
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where crime is dealt with, there's peace and law and order, uh, that will flourish.
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Whereas the rest, you know, cities like New York and Minneapolis and Chicago and so forth,
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uh, will continue to spiral out of control and, and, and destroy themselves, right?
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And it'll take a long time for this to be sorted out.
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A lot of people talk about, uh, you know, kind of national divorce, and I don't think we're
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ever going to get like a formal secession of States.
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I don't think that anything like that's coming.
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But I do think the great sword is real, you know, that you're talking about there because
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you know, uh, look, I have this disagreement all the time with people online, the, the,
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the shake shack Americans, as we like to call our, our urbanite conservatives, right?
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And, and, and I understand their point where you can't, you know, the, the cities are
00:19:40.960
If you abandon them, then you're, you're abandoning all of these influence.
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I understand where they're coming from, but a lot of time it feels like they just think that
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at some point, you know, they'll be able to rule from these places.
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And it's like, yeah, that's not happening guys.
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Like you said, these places, you can't, you cannot defend yourself.
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This desolated, you know, wasteland of crime and, and degeneracy that's, that's, that's useless
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And so I think you're right that over time, we're going to see even more of this sorting,
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you know, say what you want there, you know, nothing, no state is perfect, but you know,
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we didn't have a lot of BLM writing in Florida.
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You know, I've got a sheriff, you know, when there were looters during a hurricane came who
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said, uh, yeah, if someone comes and takes your stuff, shoot them dead and let everybody
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else know that if they come, you know, they're not going to make it through here.
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That's the kind of stuff that will change the way that you approach, you know, the, the
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law and order in your area that a narco tyranny is a feature.
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It's not a bug in, in the, the therapeutic state, the idea that, you know, the, everything,
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And that means that you'll go ahead and get rid of all the other uncomfortable things like
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crime statistics that people start to notice once you start actually enforcing the law,
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And I think that one of the reasons that it's been so important to get rid of masculinity,
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there's a, there's a lot of reasons why that's become important, but one of the most important
00:21:10.520
reasons for the total state for the, for the attempt to kind of bring everything under centralized
00:21:15.480
state rule is getting rid of what was kind of that, uh, that buffer of, of, uh, violence,
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there's a difference between, Hey, we need to resolve this issue and Hey, we need a guy
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with a gun and a badge to come in and resolve this issue.
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And, and this is what created a high trust society.
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How can a woman who doesn't have a, you know, a family member, a male family member standing
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Well, the answer is because everyone else, every other man in that piece of public transit
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He understands he has a particular duty as a man, he has a particular role as a man, even
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if he doesn't know that woman, even though he gets no particular, uh, value from standing
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He understands this is social obligation as a, as a Christian, as a man to go ahead and stand
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between her and violence, even though he receives no benefit, even though he has no familiar,
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And that buffering of, of violence that, that, okay, men are ready to stand in, even if they
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are not professionals, even if they're not equipped by the state meant that we didn't
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Now, now New York is walking people through every single, uh, subway entrance as if it's
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the, uh, the TSA, which is itself already an insane invasion of, of privacy.
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And we're doing all of these things because we're pretending we don't know where crime
00:22:51.860
And so instead we're, we're doing this anarcho tyranny where we have every law abiding person
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But the people who we know are dangerous, uh, we, we, we pretend aren't dangerous.
00:23:02.540
And then if someone tries to step in and stop them, we punish them.
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And so it's no surprise that if you want, if the state wants to have all of this tower,
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power, if the state wants to be able to stop every citizen and search them, no matter what
00:23:13.900
they look like, if the state wants to be able to lock everyone up and have the, the true
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monopoly on violence, even the most, uh, the most, uh, you know, low grade version of it,
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Then they need to eliminate, eliminate those intermediate roles in violence that men used
00:23:31.280
When I found out my friend got a great deal on a designer dress from winners, I started
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wondering, is every fabulous item I see from winners?
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Like that woman over there with the Italian leather handbag.
00:24:04.060
You know, I don't know if you saw the, um, the funeral for the police officer, the NYPD
00:24:10.100
officer, um, over the weekend and, and, and just this crowd of, of 10,000 uniformed officers,
00:24:20.220
And you think, right, those are, those are all, I mean, mostly men that, um, have, have taken
00:24:28.800
this vow to, to defend their community and how, what can those guys be thinking, right?
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Having, you know, Kathy Hochul be the governor and Erica Adams be the mayor and just things
00:24:40.820
being run into the ground, um, all around them, you know, like they have to be longing
00:24:45.940
for someone to come in and restore order to this place.
00:24:49.820
And, and even like normal people that live in, in New York city, which I think there are
00:24:56.940
I mean, here in like rural America, we think, yeah, we think, we think it's just all, they're
00:25:02.360
But, um, there, there are actually normal people that live in these places that, that want to
00:25:09.580
And, and once upon a time, like Rudy Giuliani did get elected mayor of New York city, like
00:25:15.240
basically on that, that same agenda and did clean it up.
00:25:19.420
And so, you know, will we return to a time like the, you know, 1990s, uh, the mid 1990s
00:25:25.580
where, uh, law and order will be pursued, um, as, as like the, the top of the agenda,
00:25:31.620
um, in, in local and regional politics, even national politics.
00:25:34.920
It was like that, that was, you know, in 2020, that was like the big thing against Biden that
00:25:39.440
they were saying is like, oh, he passed the crime bill and he's so bad.
00:25:42.060
It's like, that's like the only good thing he ever did when he was in the United States
00:25:47.140
Senate, um, was, was passing that, that, that, the crime bill in the mid nineties.
00:25:51.440
And, um, and so you look at it, like, um, can that occur again?
00:25:56.760
Um, but I think it has to continue to, to get worse before people recognize reality.
00:26:01.760
Um, I mean, it's the same thing with, um, with the immigration issue, right?
00:26:06.540
You have to be like watching videos of thousands of people rushing across the border and trampling
00:26:11.440
over national guardsmen before you're like, maybe this isn't so good, right?
00:26:15.520
Maybe this is a problem and we should deal with it.
00:26:18.220
Um, and so, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm always, I'm always optimistic about this stuff.
00:26:23.220
You know, I hate, I hate that everyone wants to black bill and think like, oh, it's all
00:26:28.920
Like the solutions to these things are obvious, right?
00:26:35.540
Human societies, cities have already technology that has existed for thousands and thousands
00:26:40.880
of years and they know how, they knew how to deal with crime.
00:26:43.660
And all of a sudden we're in the 21st century and we're like, oh, we just have no idea.
00:26:51.820
And, um, the only question is when does this, you know, therapeutic state just, just collapse
00:26:57.560
and die and people want, um, toughness and order.
00:27:01.060
Like you, you see like, um, you know, Trump kind of speaking off the cuff at, at this funeral
00:27:06.420
and, and, and saying, you know, in kind of a very, um, low key tone, he knows he's at
00:27:11.960
a funeral and, and, uh, is trying not to make it too overtly political.
00:27:16.140
Um, but just saying, no, there needs to, there needs to be order.
00:27:20.220
There needs to be, the crime needs to be dealt with.
00:27:23.840
And I mean, that resonates massively with people when they, when they see this, when
00:27:28.700
they see the image of, um, you know, the, the widow of that police officer and his, you
00:27:35.520
You, you see that and, and you think like this, this was a policy decision that caused
00:27:42.540
This little boy reaching out to his father's casket.
00:27:44.620
Like this, this, someone chose many, many people with power chose to have this situation
00:27:55.200
And I think people, I mean, I'm, I'm never like, oh, the sheeple are waking up, right?
00:28:01.920
Like, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not a populist in that sense.
00:28:05.900
Uh, where I, I believe where, oh, you just got to wake up the majority and they'll, they'll
00:28:10.200
No, I think it's, it's more of a question of, um, of, of just like basic elite theory, right?
00:28:15.980
They see a crown lying in the gutter and someone near the top has to say, all right, I'm going
00:28:23.060
I'm going to pick it up and I'm going to restore order and, and justice and, and peace to my
00:28:29.100
country and, and do the things that must be done.
00:28:31.280
And you've seen this happen in foreign countries, right?
00:28:34.540
Like El Salvador, um, is, is the main example, um, where that was like the murder capital of
00:28:41.840
And now it's one of the most peaceful countries.
00:28:45.500
Well, they just locked up all of the MS-13 members, right?
00:28:52.320
And, and so that is, is what will have to occur here in the United States.
00:28:56.680
And I, I honestly, I think it will, I think it will, but there might be between now and
00:29:00.320
then though, it, it could get much, much worse.
00:29:03.700
It's like you said, these are all policy decisions.
00:29:07.520
There's no, yeah, there, there, there's no mistake here.
00:29:11.280
This is something that people are actively introducing.
00:29:13.420
We know the answers to these questions, but I've seen this so often, you know, it, uh, I
00:29:18.540
spent a lot of time as a public school teacher and it's amazing how much kind of civilizational
00:29:26.040
scaffolding we put around these ideas so that we can't see basic truth, right?
00:29:32.220
Like everybody in, everybody in a school building knows what discipline works.
00:29:39.000
Everybody in a school building knows how to properly instruct kids.
00:29:42.980
There's no, there's no surprise there, but the problem is it doesn't work equally across
00:29:50.980
We're not allowed to have those kinds of statistics, those results.
00:29:53.840
And so we erect a large amount of artificial scaffolding around the entire educational
00:29:58.680
process to make sure that there's a bunch of BS that people can make money off of and
00:30:03.780
seminars they can sell and trainings they can do to pretend like they're going to generate
00:30:10.880
And then when they don't come around, we just go back to blaming them on racism or sexism
00:30:15.480
And it's the same thing with crime here, right?
00:30:20.100
If you talk to any sheriff, they always say, I know, yeah, I know exactly where the crime
00:30:35.100
Of course, you know, different technologies will come around.
00:30:37.480
Tweaks can be made, but ultimately we understand the basics of how this works, but we have to
00:30:42.540
erect a massive amount of scaffolding around all of our, our theory so that we can pretend
00:30:49.700
You know, we have this, this failed system of restorative justice that's there so we can
00:30:55.580
cook the numbers on the books to make it, you know, the prison population look smaller
00:30:59.300
and, and change the demographic, you know, representation, everything there.
00:31:03.260
We, we have all of these different policies that we make sure we never use, you know, because
00:31:08.400
if they, if we use them, you know, that, that could really offend some of our sensibilities.
00:31:13.020
And I think you're right that eventually what's going to happen, it's, it's not going to
00:31:16.380
be top down, but what's going to happen is, is people are going to sort themselves into
00:31:20.560
areas and then it's like, okay, like, okay, well, do you like the thing where they don't
00:31:24.900
ignore the problem and they use a solution that might be slightly uncomfortable?
00:31:28.660
Well, then you should move to Florida or Texas or, you know, wherever.
00:31:32.560
Well, you, you don't mind, you know, getting constant, you, you, uh, what's the, uh, Anna
00:31:38.220
Kasparian, I think is the, over at, uh, uh, TYT.
00:31:41.480
I can't believe I keep getting mugged in these places that are following the policies I believed
00:31:50.460
Well, you know, like, like eventually these people either figure it out or they just become
00:31:54.920
willing participants in a system that destroys them.
00:31:57.920
And I think that that is exactly what we're going to see is this, this constant sorting
00:32:03.140
I don't know if we're going to see a national solution, but I think we will see regional
00:32:06.560
solutions because the people who can will move and they'll invest in those societies and
00:32:11.660
those, uh, communities that are actually going to protect them.
00:32:15.340
And I, and I think, you know, to the, to the question of like cities, you can have, um,
00:32:21.160
you know, cities in, in these red states that you can wield influence in and they'll, they'll
00:32:29.700
You know, there's, there's several very large cities in Florida that, um, that are, are much
00:32:34.960
safer to live in than the New York city or Los Angeles or, um, or San Francisco or Chicago.
00:32:42.440
And I mean, what, what, I mean, you think about that and as the great sort continues
00:32:47.940
out over a generation, um, those places will continue to grow, they'll continue to grow
00:32:53.920
And they, you, you can see in like 50 years, you know, Miami being the center of the new
00:33:02.520
Things like that, where New York continues to decline and it's, it's economic prominence
00:33:09.000
Um, that, that has happened, like you, you have civilizations, I mean, just even looking
00:33:13.440
through history with these great massive cities that ruled the world and then all of a sudden
00:33:22.940
And sometimes it's puzzling to historians, like, how did this happen?
00:33:25.860
And, and, and maybe it will be, you know, thousands of years from now, they'll look at
00:33:29.980
New York, why was New York city so wonderful and so powerful?
00:33:37.640
And, and, and I think that is probably, you know, just, just for like normal people, like
00:33:43.980
Well, that's the solution for, for you is, and especially as, as these grow, I mean, there,
00:33:49.560
there are, there are more jobs, more opportunity in these places and, and more ability for people
00:33:56.180
Um, I mean, I've, my, um, my parents live in Florida half of the year and every time
00:34:00.500
I go visit them, there's like 50 new sub-developments where they used to have fields of cows, right?
00:34:12.780
It's, it is a place that people want to, to be in, uh, because it's much, much safer.
00:34:17.360
I mean, there, there still is, um, a fair amount of crime in, in Florida.
00:34:21.180
Um, but it's nowhere near like the major, major cities.
00:34:26.940
And so, uh, yeah, I, I think that's what will continue to occur.
00:34:29.800
Um, and it'll happen not just in a place like Florida, but all sorts of other red states,
00:34:33.840
um, you know, in, in the South and in the Midwest.
00:34:37.180
And, and you'll, you'll, you'll see politics respond to this, right?
00:34:41.480
You'll see politicians, like they'll, they, they will look at someone like DeSantis and
00:34:45.700
begin to emulate the things that he's done in Florida for their own states.
00:34:49.500
And you're already starting to see this in, in many places.
00:34:53.920
I, I, I do think we need a, some border control, uh, in Florida, you know, it starts at the
00:34:59.120
Mason Dixon line, turn them around, you know, if they, they like, like, I don't mind some
00:35:03.060
of the base people moving down, but, uh, too, too many people are moving in, uh, who, you
00:35:09.360
I want your voting record for the last, you know, uh, 20 years before you can, where you
00:35:19.060
And so I want to, I want to make sure before time gets away from us that we talk a little
00:35:24.760
I know, uh, you know, congratulations, uh, apparently Joe Rogan's been checking out the
00:35:30.800
Uh, yeah, at least, uh, yeah, at least, you know, Cam Haynes, um, it appears to be reading
00:35:36.440
it and he shared, uh, Joe shared the post on Instagram of, of Cameron Haynes.
00:35:41.460
Uh, so it's like, okay, Joe, read, read the book, man.
00:35:48.100
Um, and, and the book has been, you know, um, way more successful than, than I, I thought,
00:35:53.520
you know, you write, you write anything and you think whatever you wrote is going to be
00:35:59.560
And I've posted things where I'm like, this is the best thing I ever wrote.
00:36:07.280
And, and I was really excited about the book and, and I'm very pleased that, that lots and
00:36:12.080
lots of people have, have really, really enjoyed it.
00:36:16.420
Cause I know, you know, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is that obvious I've
00:36:20.080
read the, about the first third of the book so far, but, uh, you know, you talk about,
00:36:24.960
uh, you know, kind of why we're in this scenario, why culture has gone this way, why we would
00:36:30.580
lose the ability to sit, you know, have a, a high trust society that would protect women.
00:36:35.960
You directly address that, at least in the part of the book that I've read so far.
00:36:39.500
So can you talk a little about the book and kind of what, what it goes into?
00:36:44.280
I mean, the, you know, the major premise of the book is that you, you, you have all sorts
00:36:51.500
of people, um, you know, commentators and so forth that are like, oh man, things could
00:36:57.540
If Klaus Schwab and the world economic forum take over, we'll be eating bugs and living
00:37:01.480
in the pod and it'll be this horrific dystopia and, and so awful.
00:37:07.120
And I'm like, wait, wait a second, like step back and, and think about the world we already
00:37:13.080
The, the social conditions, um, you know, every, every aspect of the life of, of life that
00:37:19.280
And like, if you, if you painted this picture, um, to people living a hundred years ago of the,
00:37:25.220
the life that we have right now, they would think that something way worse than our, our
00:37:31.080
greatest fears, uh, has already occurred, right?
00:37:34.480
They already, they would think that we're already living in this, this horrible dystopia.
00:37:38.040
And, and so a lot of the, you know, the first half of the book is, it's kind of black, but I don't
00:37:46.100
I don't want to make them depressed and, and, and think, oh, it's all over.
00:37:50.400
Um, but some of it is like, there's so many people that don't even realize things are really
00:37:56.400
And so, yeah, you know, taking them through, um, just the, the massive shifts, um, economically
00:38:02.820
that have occurred and, and sociologically, the massive shifts in, in families, you know,
00:38:09.140
We don't really have, we, we have marriage, but it's not really the same thing that it
00:38:16.200
Um, we don't have the, the distinction between men and women, um, certainly economically, but
00:38:21.620
really in every aspect, um, there's this, this egalitarian sentiment where, where men
00:38:27.120
and women are, they're exactly the same and you can't treat them any different.
00:38:31.360
Um, and, and, and so much of, of the life that we've had has been purposefully destroyed.
00:38:39.180
And, and so you see situations like this, right?
00:38:42.020
With the crime and women being attacked and, and we know why it's happened, right?
00:38:48.620
In, in the, in like the nineties and two thousands, you'd hear about like social engineering.
00:38:53.340
People would talk on the conservative world, talk about like, we don't, we don't believe
00:38:57.560
We don't want to practice social engineering, things like that.
00:38:59.940
And it's like, well, that's what they've been doing for 60, 70, 80 years is socially
00:39:05.900
engineering a society that we now have a society we now live in.
00:39:16.260
It's like, well, this is just market conditions that created the thing that we have.
00:39:19.700
Um, it, it's, it, it's been done on, on purpose.
00:39:23.360
Um, and so then once you recognize the, the gravity of the situation that we're in, then
00:39:32.160
you can begin to start taking steps personally to change, uh, the situation for yourself,
00:39:38.240
for your family, for your community and, um, and begin to, to do things like it's not, it's
00:39:48.940
A lot of people obviously, you know, I've been worrying about this for a long time.
00:39:52.800
I point this out all the time, you know, the religious right in the seventies and the
00:39:56.260
eighties, we're talking about where all this was going to go.
00:39:59.260
And the weird thing that happens is there's so many times we were warned.
00:40:03.800
There's a point of no return, you know, that we're going to, where things are going
00:40:07.860
And, you know, all the people who warned about that are still acting, you know, 30, 40 years
00:40:13.780
later, as if nothing has happened, you know, they're, they're still giving the same warning.
00:40:19.580
But like you said, like, no, we're already here.
00:40:23.600
You have already, you've already passed beyond that threshold.
00:40:26.440
You already threw that looking glass and you're so the frog has been boiled so slowly.
00:40:31.920
And so if you show the, the world today to somebody from the eighties, it just, oh my
00:40:38.160
God, it's way worse than I, than I ever thought.
00:40:40.340
Like, you know, the, the, the, the craziest member of the Westboro Baptist church would
00:40:44.020
have been like, well, come on guys, let's, yeah, not, that's not going to happen.
00:40:49.660
And so, you know, a lot of people, you know, Rob Dreher is famous for his book, the Benedict
00:40:54.600
option, which he actually took from Elisdale McIntyre, even though it's not really the point
00:40:59.280
And McIntyre funny, funny enough, I believe McIntyre said something like, yeah, they're
00:41:03.140
like, how do you, how do you feel about the, you know, the Benedict option?
00:41:05.900
He's like, I wish Rod would have read the rest of the book.
00:41:08.400
But, you know, but, but the, but the, you know, the Benedict option is basically this
00:41:16.460
Now we've already talked about how there is important to relocate to situations where
00:41:21.480
you can raise your family safely, where there is a opportunity to defend yourself and, and
00:41:29.860
However, I feel like the Boniface option is probably a little different from the full on
00:41:34.900
I think that's, that's kind of part of where that came from.
00:41:38.920
I mean, speaking of Rod, like he, uh, he read the book and reviewed it and he didn't like
00:41:45.300
Uh, he thought, and he described me as a very angry young man, right?
00:41:51.960
And I don't, I mean, I've been on your show here for 40 minutes.
00:41:54.420
So your audience can, they can decide how angry I am.
00:41:57.480
And I don't usually, I'm, I have a cold right now.
00:42:00.460
So I, I sound way more gruff than I normally do.
00:42:02.620
So maybe that's not helping my point, but I feel like I'm a pretty jovial, gregarious
00:42:11.700
And, uh, and so, yeah, I, I, um, my, my main contention with, with his book, it's like,
00:42:21.920
And, and I got to the end of it and I thought, okay, well then now what, right?
00:42:25.980
I've built my, uh, Christian, you know, right wing community out in the woods.
00:42:30.440
And we, uh, we have this wonderful hobbit shire life, uh, but like Mordor is still out
00:42:41.300
And, and, and so my book kind of came out of that where it's like, okay, we have this
00:42:45.640
now we have a defensive, like tactical strategy for the near term.
00:42:57.120
And so you, you see this kind of, um, this development, um, among, uh, especially evangelicalism,
00:43:04.840
but, but not, not, not exclusively just, just Christians in America that there's kind of
00:43:12.680
You have the ones that want to continue kind of the normie con, uh, you know, boomer con
00:43:19.120
We just need to, we're just going to vote our way out of it and be really nice and inoffensive
00:43:25.940
And then you have a group that kind of just wants to do Benedict option kind of type of
00:43:35.080
We're just going to step out of these things and not worry ourselves with the world.
00:43:38.720
And then the third one is like, no, it's time to go on offense.
00:43:43.660
It's time to, um, you know, speak frankly and, and admit the reality to oppose, you know,
00:43:51.840
things like transgenderism and homosexuality and, and, um, you know, feminism and all of
00:43:57.420
the, all of the social ills that are all around us, right?
00:44:01.340
We know that we're out of step with the, the mainstream culture and like, you can see what
00:44:09.040
I don't want, why would you want to be, you know, liked by our culture?
00:44:13.140
And so I think that, that third group, the ones that are much more aggressive, um, are
00:44:18.700
going to gain, um, gain a much bigger, you know, I hate using this terminology, but like
00:44:24.760
market share, uh, within the church that, that people, especially men, right?
00:44:29.660
And it's like not a coincidence that like this passage in my book gets shared by, by Cameron
00:44:34.380
Haynes and then Joe Rogan about masculinity, where it's like, no, God, God made men to be
00:44:40.960
He made men to, to have strength and to, to be aggressive.
00:44:47.000
Adam is in the garden and Adam is, is supposed to cut the head off the snake, right?
00:44:52.840
When it comes in, he's supposed to guard and keep the garden, right?
00:44:55.800
This is a big point I make in the book and he fails.
00:44:59.880
He lets his wife get attacked and casts all of humanity into, into, uh, curse and death.
00:45:09.740
He wants us to, to, uh, be willing to fight for things that are good, right?
00:45:14.900
To stand up for things that are, that are good and right and true.
00:45:17.820
And so, um, I think, I think those things are going to continue to, to gain, um, and grow
00:45:28.660
Like I, I, I see this just in generally like in, in the right online and, um, that, that
00:45:35.660
Christianity, the Christian religion has become much more attractive to, to men, um, in, in
00:45:44.340
And, um, and, and to the extent that it will embrace these things that it's like, it's,
00:45:52.280
It's okay to, uh, to be rough around the edges, even a little bit.
00:45:57.000
It's, it's okay to be this way and, and stand up for things because, um, in the past it has
00:46:03.320
been, you become a Christian, you have to, you have to check all of your masculinity at
00:46:10.880
And, and the big thing in the evangelical world was like being a servant leader.
00:46:16.080
Which just means do whatever your wife tells you to do, right?
00:46:22.280
Um, and, and that was just like really repulsive to normal men.
00:46:28.340
And, and so our, our churches have largely been dominated by women, uh, for that reason.
00:46:34.440
And, and, and so, right, if you change that paradigm, if men are actually allowed to lead,
00:46:39.840
they're allowed to lead their families, lead in, in the workplace and in businesses, uh,
00:46:44.220
lead in, in culture and society and politics, um, you can have a lot of changes happen very
00:46:51.160
drastically and lots of men will want to join this where you don't have to pretend to not
00:46:58.040
Like it's, it's now actually, it's very attractive, um, to be, to be willing to fight, uh, to be
00:47:03.660
willing to fight against things that are bad, right?
00:47:07.700
They see, they see the stuff they see like, you know, transgender visibility day instead of
00:47:15.260
And they want, you know, pastors and leaders in the church to say, that's really bad.
00:47:24.980
Um, and in the past, right, if that happened, you know, if Obama had done that in, in 2010
00:47:30.820
or something where every evangelical leader would be like, just pretend it didn't happen.
00:47:36.120
And so you, you saw much more reaction now, um, in, in over the weekend because of it.
00:47:42.580
And I think a lot of it is, you know, uh, Christians that are, are on the online right
00:47:47.940
are, are far more aggressive than they ever have been before.
00:47:51.660
And they're pushing the church to, to be more on this kind of war footing.
00:47:56.640
And like, you see this, I mean, and it plays kind of into like the Christian nationalism in
00:48:01.180
debate and people will take even like language, like, like I had, like, even in that quote,
00:48:06.080
you know, I, it's, I said something about like, God has called you to, to holy war, right?
00:48:14.420
Not in the sense of like, yeah, go join a militia or something, but, but rather, you know,
00:48:22.340
And you see this with like, like guys like James Lindsay were like, no, Christian nationalism
00:48:26.800
It's, uh, it's, it's the psyop from the government.
00:48:30.900
They're trying to turn, uh, Christian nationalists into terrorists and things like that.
00:48:35.500
And it's like, like, that's actually not going to work because evangelical Christians are,
00:48:42.900
That's not usually the pool that the FBI, when they try to find some schizophrenic guy
00:48:47.920
to do, to do something and, and cajole him into, into entrapping himself.
00:48:52.680
Those, those aren't usually the people that fall for that stuff, right?
00:48:55.560
It's rather like, I just want Christian men to act like men and, and let the chips fall
00:49:01.380
Well, from, from what I understand, you know, Christ is King is also an op, you know, that,
00:49:05.480
that turns out it was actually just every form of Christianity who knew that the militant
00:49:16.460
Uh, funny enough, uh, you know, Richard Dawkins actually just lamented the loss of Christianity.
00:49:22.780
I'm going to get more detail of that, but all right.
00:49:24.960
So, uh, Andrew, before we switch over to the questions of the people, where can people find
00:49:30.520
Where can they find your other work online, Twitter, everything like that?
00:49:34.080
So, um, it is, uh, you can go to bonifaceoption.com and that'll take you right to the Amazon link.
00:49:40.820
Or if you just want to go to Amazon and type in Boniface option and my name, um, it should
00:49:48.680
I hope, uh, yeah, I hope, I hope you, you, your audience, uh, reads it and, and really
00:49:55.300
Um, and other work that, that I'm doing, you know, I'm on, I'm on Twitter at Boniface
00:50:02.160
And, um, and I also, I do a podcast with, uh, CJ Engel, uh, who does work with, uh, Chronicles
00:50:14.180
Um, but, uh, uh, for now, but, uh, if they want to check that out, we talk about, um,
00:50:19.880
we talk about politics and Christian nationalism and, uh, culture and, and many of the things
00:50:30.580
I always say he's the star of the show and the brains of the operation and, uh, people,
00:50:37.960
We'll make sure that you check out, uh, Andrew's book, make sure that you're checking
00:50:43.100
Let's go ahead and see what questions we have here.
00:50:46.400
A perspicacious heretic says the woke is getting punched away.
00:50:50.980
You know, I've claimed victory many times in my ongoing dispute with Nima Parvini, uh, academic
00:50:58.660
agent over whether the, the, the woke will be put away.
00:51:01.380
I feel like Biden, uh, you know, celebrating the transgender day of visibility instead of
00:51:10.360
I feel, I feel like I'm owed several cigars at this point, but he keeps drawing it.
00:51:18.020
I don't, I just don't want to see him keep getting hit like that.
00:51:21.760
You know, it's okay that, you know, we all, we all make a bad prediction.
00:51:25.260
Everyone's I'll just, you know, don't just take the L, you know, but, but he, he insists
00:51:29.360
that things are going to turn around for him, uh, you know, in the next year.
00:51:34.500
Uh, but yeah, I, I feel, I feel pretty good about that prediction.
00:51:38.360
Cooper Weirder says, uh, men defending women sounds fascist to me guys.
00:51:42.600
I mean, that, that literally is the, been the assertion for a long time, right?
00:51:46.780
That, that, you know, being willing to protect, uh, you know, someone vulnerable is that, that
00:51:56.020
Why wouldn't people expect that kind of accusation?
00:52:01.200
We've got Andrew Torba here says Christ is King.
00:52:05.520
Don't let anyone scare you away from the truth.
00:52:08.840
Cooper Willow says, uh, well, uh, MGTOW guys to say that that's true.
00:52:14.420
They do, you know, that's, that is very interesting that there's this reflection.
00:52:19.380
You know, we made this joke before we got on that, um, there, there was, uh, there, there
00:52:24.020
were women posting about how these attacks in New York were secretly incel coordinated,
00:52:29.000
you know, attacks on 4chan instead of just the obvious case of what was happening in
00:52:33.760
But there is this, there is this, um, weird mirror image of kind of the incel and the
00:52:40.320
They're, they're, they're two people who, uh, want to blame their entirety of, of the
00:52:47.880
Again, turning, turning the opposite sex into a political opponent instead of understanding
00:52:52.440
that these are, these are people that can and must coexist, uh, for things to flourish.
00:52:57.520
And it's weird that, uh, the internet kind of provides us the, these kind of, uh, insulated
00:53:03.860
communities where these ideas can flourish, where they're in the real, where in the real
00:53:07.980
world, like you would just have to figure out how to get along, you know, I guess.
00:53:13.900
And it's like you said before, like, um, they've, they've been turned into two political groups
00:53:21.940
And like, if you have that, your civilization civilization is done, right?
00:53:26.260
You, you're, you're not going to have marriage and I can have children.
00:53:30.680
Um, and so, yeah, hopefully, hopefully like the woke does get put away and, and, uh, men
00:53:38.620
and women can go back to coexisting and having a good lives together.
00:53:42.300
Like, to be clear, I think at some point it collapses.
00:53:45.500
It's like my point is my, my point of this bed is not that it's there in perpetuity, like
00:53:50.400
that, which cannot go on forever, will not go on forever.
00:53:53.440
Uh, it is, it is wholly unnatural and it will collapse, but it, but it will not be because
00:53:58.520
our, uh, you know, Nima's point is that our elites are ultimately interested in power.
00:54:03.840
And so they'll turn things around because they, they're competent enough to realize that
00:54:07.940
continuing to run this disastrous strategy will lose.
00:54:10.820
I only know this because I know too many of these people, uh, you know, I've stared
00:54:15.680
to, and because I'm a true believer, you know, as, as, as followers of a religion, uh, you
00:54:20.440
know, the, the true religion, we, we under, we know religious fervor when we see it and
00:54:25.000
we're like, yeah, no, those are not people who are backing down.
00:54:27.900
Uh, yeah, that they, they believe in us in a very real way.
00:54:31.960
Uh, Florida Henry here says, uh, this comes directly from public school and started back in
00:54:37.660
It seems to be the common denominator of many of our problems.
00:54:41.200
Well, I mean, I think the public school does play a large part in this.
00:54:44.620
Of course, uh, the state, uh, having kind of this monopoly on education and basically this,
00:54:51.020
uh, this child daycare center that, uh, gets to distribute, you know, acts as, as an ideological
00:54:56.460
distribution center, uh, for kind of the state religion means whatever they take up is going
00:55:02.940
Um, and if you want to watch my episode with Mary Harrington, she makes a really good point
00:55:06.540
about the institutionalized care of children and what that does to their ability, uh, to
00:55:11.900
kind of develop the fact that every interaction is done through an intermediary means that
00:55:17.180
anytime someone bumps, you know, into something or gets into a fight or something, it becomes
00:55:21.460
this therapeutic action that they have to go through rather where if it was parents, it
00:55:25.720
would be like, okay, well, you know, don't say stupid stuff to your friend, learn how to
00:55:29.800
throw a better right hook, you know, like this would be the, this would get the advice
00:55:36.140
So I think you're right that this does, uh, involve the public school, though.
00:55:40.060
I think it's, it's more in many ways, it's, it's not so much that the nefarious ideology
00:55:45.160
was piped through the public school, though, that did happen.
00:55:47.660
It's more of that the institutional, uh, setup for the public school actually creates inevitably
00:55:57.260
We've got, uh, Clayton here says HR departments are the corporate enforcement arm of the institutional
00:56:04.000
Uh, typical male behavior is now a fireable offense.
00:56:11.160
It's, and, and like, where did HR departments come from?
00:56:15.500
I mean, all of these things like where America wasn't created, right?
00:56:20.100
They didn't, they didn't come, you know, over on the Mayflower and have an HR lady there,
00:56:25.200
The, this came out of, out of, uh, the civil rights act, right?
00:56:29.600
Um, that's ultimately where these things come from.
00:56:31.580
You had to have this massive, um, you know, superstructure in every large enough corporation
00:56:37.320
at scale to be able to comply with the civil rights act.
00:56:44.560
And, and I mean, most people have worked in a place where there are a lot of women in,
00:56:50.100
in the workplace and the dynamic is completely different than when you're in a motel, an
00:56:55.160
all male work environment and you, you could feel it.
00:56:58.320
Uh, and it's, it's really difficult for men to operate in that, in that world.
00:57:03.640
And so, yeah, this is, it's, it's all, you know, all downstream of that.
00:57:07.360
I mean, we could, we could talk for another hour about like Christopher Caldwell's book.
00:57:14.820
There is very, it's very much the case that what constitutes a hostile work environment
00:57:19.160
is anything that triggers the, the progressive political ideology.
00:57:23.760
And so, you know, every, everything about that law, everything that's instituted in that,
00:57:28.380
uh, and where did the authority to enforce that came come from exactly like you said,
00:57:35.160
And that's why, you know, I had this, you know, I kind of had this, this back and forth
00:57:40.740
He's like, well, we need to create like a night watchman civil rights, you know, bureau.
00:57:45.200
And it's like, I, I'm pretty sure that's like creating a night watchman, you know, Soviet,
00:57:54.220
Like you can't have a economic central planning just a little bit, right?
00:57:57.680
Like you gotta, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta have to get the whole thing root and branch
00:58:04.100
You guys talk like these criminals don't care about the culture war or even politics, but
00:58:10.080
Once again, there's just this amazing obsession with like, if we can just reason our way through
00:58:15.220
this, like if you could just sit every criminal and, you know, deviant and misbehaving, you
00:58:19.920
know, but you know, child and just like work it all through with them.
00:58:24.900
And that's exactly the attitude that has you said, why isn't everyone calling this out
00:58:29.340
as if that's an actual solution, uh, to violate your finger.
00:58:35.140
But has, but, but have they been through three more hours of HR lectures?
00:58:40.800
Uh, paladin YYZ says, I'm not sure an, uh, ichthyologist, uh, but I, yeah, I'm sure I'm
00:58:50.220
doing that wrong, but I wonder if there is a species of fish that instead of taking the
00:58:55.760
It would be interesting if there's such a method would reduce, uh, fishing.
00:59:03.300
Well, yeah, I don't, I don't think there is a species of, I mean, unless, you know, unless
00:59:09.260
Uh, but, uh, no, yeah, yeah, I, I, um, I think that's, um, that's entirely true.
00:59:15.960
Like that, I mean, and, and, and, you know, the analogy of course is just with regard to
00:59:20.720
If, uh, if, uh, if, um, yeah, you had, um, a situation where, um, instead of preying on,
00:59:30.380
uh, innocent people, you know, the innocent people were able to fight back and cause major
00:59:40.480
The problem would, would solve itself very quickly, right?
00:59:43.260
If, if, uh, you had, you know, um, attorney generals and, and, um, and DAs and so forth
00:59:51.820
that, that gave tons of leniency to people defending themselves against criminals, the problem would
00:59:59.000
Like if, if it was, it's a, it's an, imagine if the situation was reversed sort of thing.
01:00:03.900
Imagine if the anarcho tyranny was the opposite of what it is, right?
01:00:07.180
You, you just have a normal society at that point.
01:00:18.500
Uh, forging and versus Andrew cannot escape me on any stream or even on vacation.
01:00:24.800
I got to meet him, uh, a couple of weeks ago, uh, down in Tennessee.
01:00:30.840
First vocacious heretic says, I, uh, Andrew, I live super close to you.
01:00:34.300
How do you communicate these days to people in our community that seem unaware of these
01:00:42.100
Yeah, I, I think, I mean, some of it is, um, you have to be a normie whisperer, right?
01:00:49.960
You have to be able to, uh, to be able to talk about this stuff in a way that they can
01:00:54.980
contextualize it, that they can conceptualize what's going on.
01:00:58.160
Like, I mean, even like when I, when I talked to buddies about the crime, like, yeah, the crime's
01:01:04.740
And, and I'm like, yeah, I think we should just like lock up the criminals and not care
01:01:09.000
like, you know, whether they're white or black or purple or green.
01:01:17.500
Like, I mean, just framing it in, in just simple, simple ways.
01:01:21.100
I mean, you brought up like Rufo and I think Rufo is a tremendous normie whisperer, right?
01:01:27.120
He's able to take, you know, the right-wing ideas and, and make them digestible to the
01:01:33.360
I mean, and of course, like Trump is an example of that as well.
01:01:36.920
Uh, and yeah, that's, that's, that's a lot of it is you, you can't freak out the normies,
01:01:43.240
You, you have to be able to, to just, just be able to talk about, about things in a very
01:01:51.960
I mean, and, and, and even like the, the feminism stuff like that, that's, I think much, much
01:01:56.180
more difficult because like in the book, I get into the fact that like women just weren't
01:02:04.920
Like women, yeah, women had part-time jobs or they worked from home and, and yes, there
01:02:08.920
were women that worked in factories and things like that, but, um, but it wasn't widespread
01:02:14.720
And now we're in a place where, where every woman goes to college and goes, gets a job and
01:02:20.600
And so you can't, you can't like attack people and be like, you're doing it wrong.
01:02:24.920
If you're not a trad wife baking sourdough all day.
01:02:28.100
Um, but you see these people that these young women who are like on TikTok, you see these
01:02:32.500
TikTok videos all the time where they're like, I just, I shouldn't have gone to college.
01:02:40.480
And so you kind of want to draw that stuff out and, and, and, and you can't be like, ah,
01:02:46.300
You need to pay back your student loans and all this kind of stuff.
01:02:48.360
But you, you just have to say, yeah, our, our society is really messed up and it really
01:02:52.880
is awful that you're in this position where you can't just, um, be a mom and, and love
01:02:59.520
Like you have to go have a career, like framing it in, in those ways, um, is I think way more
01:03:05.380
Um, and, and way, way easier to, to understand and digest, um, rather than just going guns
01:03:15.480
I, you know, I get asked sometimes I'll go on these shows and they'll be like, what's
01:03:21.260
What's the most controversial opinion you hold?
01:03:25.740
Uh, you know, it's my most controversial, controversial opinion is that men and women have to figure
01:03:33.200
That is my most controversial opinion because there is a, an entire sphere and I get it,
01:03:38.160
but there's an entire sphere of people who just want vengeance.
01:03:42.180
They think that they think that the other, you know, the other, uh, the other sex has
01:03:48.400
And if only they could exact revenge, uh, that then, then suddenly they would somehow be
01:03:54.140
It turns out we actually need to have a society that is well-ordered and that means living,
01:03:58.680
you know, for the good of a family that is, you know, centered around, you know, but the,
01:04:03.260
the, the flourishing of both, not, not just the, you know, the, the punishment of one
01:04:08.320
for having, you know, transgressed you at some point or the other.
01:04:11.900
Let's see a Daedalus there with, uh, first Timothy two 12, uh, everybody can check your
01:04:17.900
Uh, monochrome hysteria says, Andrew, what is your opinion on the, uh, term Christ is King
01:04:25.480
It's generally a good thing I ask because, because to me it comes as a sloganeering and
01:04:33.380
I mean, I've, I've talked about this in other places, um, a little bit and, you know, I think
01:04:41.600
Like even if people are saying it in an insincere way, right, I'm glad that it's out there.
01:04:46.140
Um, but at, at like the end of the day, I want people that actually believe it and live
01:04:51.400
it out to be saying it more than the people who don't really believe it and they're just
01:04:57.740
Um, but then you see, like you see over the weekend or over this last week, um, that, that
01:05:03.340
a lot of the evangelical world has kind of glommed on to this point where it's like, no,
01:05:08.940
So they're just saying it and it's offensive and they're doing it on purpose.
01:05:11.700
And it's like, I don't really care that they are.
01:05:14.120
Um, and, and in fact, it's, it's actually a judgment on, on the evangelical world, right.
01:05:21.160
In, in being, uh, too deferential and, and being in purposely inoffensive that we're terrified
01:05:29.900
And so the only people that do are the guys you really don't like saying Christ is King.
01:05:36.300
If we had been doing it, if we've been saying, Hey, Ben Shapiro, you should repent and, and,
01:05:41.480
and become a Christian and believe in Jesus because Christ is King, right.
01:05:44.800
If, if our evangelical leaders had been saying that rather than like going to daily wire things
01:05:49.840
and just, you know, kowtowing to him all the time because they want to go on his platform
01:05:53.300
or whatever, um, then, and, and just being, not like hating the guy or anything like that,
01:06:01.280
You should be Jesus Christ is King, repent and believe, right.
01:06:04.580
I mean, you read the Bible and this is, it was controversial then, right.
01:06:09.120
When, when, when Paul would go places, um, he was like riots would start and because,
01:06:15.420
uh, and he'd be dragged before the authorities because he's saying someone other than Caesar
01:06:22.860
It's an offensive term because people don't want to believe it.
01:06:26.160
And we've been so afraid of offending and stepping on any toes and doing anything assertive and
01:06:32.620
aggressive that now the only people that want to do it are, are the, the bad people.
01:06:38.120
Um, so that's, that's kind of, that's, that's, that's what I think about that.
01:06:42.740
It's just really, I, this, the amazing thing about this issue is it's so dumb because people
01:06:48.220
are, are so, they're so interested in, uh, I want to, I don't want to say virtue signaling
01:06:55.720
because I hate that term, but they're so interested in, uh, in kind of performatively dunking on
01:07:01.140
internet racists that they want to avoid, uh, something that's true about the King of
01:07:10.380
Like the people who are doing this are like, it's more important for me to look better than
01:07:14.820
Nick Fuentes, who I'm not a fan of, uh, but it's more important for me to look more,
01:07:19.640
really, morally superior to this guy than it is to just tell the truth about Christ.
01:07:25.360
And yeah, obviously like the, these statements should be made in love because the crisis
01:07:31.940
It is, it is the most important thing that you can share with someone.
01:07:35.240
And, and, and that is a great way to show them how you care about them, that you care about
01:07:39.140
their salvation and that, that, that their acknowledgement of the Lordship of Christ.
01:07:42.440
And so that is the spirit in which it should be addressed and people throwing it around
01:07:46.260
otherwise are ill-advised, but that truth is way more important than dunking on internet
01:07:55.200
And, and David French is out there giving me the, you know, giving the exact same speech
01:08:00.300
So I hope, I hope everybody gets a David French award.
01:08:03.520
I'm, I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, start handing these statues out, you know,
01:08:21.240
And you, like you see, like speaking of it, since you brought them up, uh, the David
01:08:25.580
French, uh, you know, you saw what, what he said about the trans day of visibility, like
01:08:31.040
all these people are so nasty and mean and, and horrible.
01:08:36.060
And it's like, your, your, your critique is of the people that are responding to this
01:08:46.280
It's like, I want to look good to the people that hate me.
01:08:48.600
I want them to think I'm a good person more than I'm willing to say something that might
01:08:53.480
And look, I, I'm, I don't care about David French at this point.
01:08:59.220
At this point, he's, it's between him and the Lord, but people who should know better
01:09:02.700
people who spend a lot of time making fun of people like David French are doing, are
01:09:08.900
Because they want to show that they're one of their, they're not as bad as they're not
01:09:17.320
If you have a problem with the way people are conducting themselves online, speak specifically
01:09:24.680
Don't try to silence something that is true and important.
01:09:29.360
Lou Sassy says, clearly the main star of Contra Mundum, Christ is kidding.
01:09:42.860
Iowa and Slow says, a little too much optimism, men and everyone should be aware of things
01:09:58.600
But you got to get out of this frame of men versus women.
01:10:13.040
I'm not saying close your eyes to this or turn away from this.
01:10:16.940
But you cannot turn the opposite sex into your political battlefield.
01:10:22.660
Or you'll destroy what's left of your civilization.
01:10:25.120
And you'll certainly make sure that you can't build anything new and better out of what comes next.
01:10:31.320
I think his point, it might be, I don't know if you want to bring it up again.
01:10:35.700
I think he might be thinking about just the general everything going on, right?
01:10:43.180
That he's saying maybe we're being too optimistic.
01:10:44.580
Maybe he's just talking about the criminalization of the protection.
01:10:59.880
If you read the book, the first six chapters, everybody read them.
01:11:10.240
The first six chapters, people, when they would just read that, they're like,
01:11:16.620
Like they'd read it and be like, Oh, it's all over.
01:11:20.360
And I, I do not want people to just be blackpilled and think that there's no possibility of victory
01:11:26.820
whatsoever because things, things can return to normal.
01:11:31.100
Like, yes, it is this Herculean task that is before us, right?
01:11:37.060
We're going to go through a lot of stuff and it is.
01:11:39.940
It is going to get worse before it gets better.
01:11:43.000
But if the possibility of things getting better, even if it's a slim chance, um, we,
01:11:48.780
if we don't fight for it and we don't have, have that frame that I think it's going to
01:11:54.580
Uh, even as I'm aware of, of the reality of everything all around me, um, then like,
01:12:05.540
Uh, no, like I, I, I do not want people to blackpill ever, ever.
01:12:12.100
Well, like I said, make sure that you're checking out all of Andrew's stuff.
01:12:15.700
And of course, if it's your first time on this channel, make sure that you go ahead
01:12:19.900
Make sure you turn on notifications, click the bell, everything.
01:12:22.180
So you can catch these streams when they go live, make sure that you go ahead and also
01:12:27.040
subscribe to our Macintyre show on your favorite podcast platforms.
01:12:30.520
If you'd like to listen to these episodes as podcasts, and when you do, you can leave
01:12:38.000
If you'd like to go ahead and pre-order my book, the total state, you can do so on Amazon
01:12:42.860
and I will actually be on Tim cast this Thursday.
01:12:46.320
So if you want to go ahead and check that out, make sure that you tune in on Thursday.