The Auron MacIntyre Show - Criminalizing Masculinity ｜ Guest： Andrew Isker ｜ 4⧸1⧸24

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00:00:30.000 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.720 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.320 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.620 So, a lot of people here, we're looking at New York.

00:00:41.280 There have been these outcries because there has been a lot of violence there.

00:00:45.120 Crime wave.

00:00:46.320 We know crime is getting worse in many urban areas, particularly in New York,

00:00:50.580 due to a whole bunch of different policies.

00:00:52.940 But specifically, there have been a lot of crimes against women. 1.00

00:00:55.960 And all of a sudden, many women, even those in political positions, are saying,

00:01:00.480 what happened to all the good men?

00:01:02.120 Why aren't the men protecting us?

00:01:03.440 Why aren't they stopping all of this?

00:01:04.880 What could have happened?

00:01:06.660 I think we probably can understand that there are a lot of incentives that have been switched

00:01:10.800 around changing the way that people behave in society and have made things very dangerous

00:01:15.260 for women in public, unfortunately. 0.99

00:01:18.020 Coming on today to join me and talk about this subject is the author of The Boniface Option,

00:01:23.660 Andrew Isker.

00:01:24.320 Thank you for joining me, man.

00:01:26.000 Yeah, thanks for having me on.

00:01:28.100 Absolutely.

00:01:28.680 We're going to talk about this.

00:01:29.980 We're going to talk about your book.

00:01:31.280 But before we get started, can you tell everybody a little bit about what you do?

00:01:35.620 They may not be familiar with you.

00:01:37.660 Yeah, I am.

00:01:38.860 I'm a pastor in a small town, rural Minnesota of a small evangelical church in Waseka, Minnesota.

00:01:47.520 And yeah, I write.

00:01:50.200 I post on social media.

00:01:52.780 I'm a poster.

00:01:53.280 And yeah, so a lot of the topics I discuss are things like this, you know, masculinity

00:02:01.100 and just broader culture and how much things have radically changed in the last 50 or 60

00:02:10.700 years.

00:02:11.840 You know, most of us aren't really familiar with it.

00:02:15.060 We don't really think about it because you're born into the situation that you're in, right?

00:02:19.840 Probably a good chunk of the people watching your show are born after like 9-11 or were

00:02:26.480 like toddlers, right?

00:02:28.100 In the early 2000s.

00:02:29.780 And they're just, they're part of this milieu and they don't even realize that the world

00:02:33.280 60 or 70 years ago was radically different than what we have now.

00:02:37.820 And there's very little historical perspective about how messed up things are.

00:02:43.820 And so I, yeah, I like to write about those things, talk about those things, you know,

00:02:47.540 show that the world that we live in today has been manufactured to be this way.

00:02:52.540 It's not naturally the way that it is.

00:02:55.640 And this topic in particular, right, just rampant crime where nobody is really allowed to do

00:03:01.980 anything about it is not normal, right?

00:03:05.160 This is not the normal situation that people have had for millennia, right?

00:03:11.180 When you have problems like this, you deal with them.

00:03:13.040 And, and so, yeah, I'm excited to discuss all these things with you here today.

00:03:19.040 Absolutely.

00:03:19.540 Yeah.

00:03:19.680 Like I said, I knew that it was important to bring you on to talk about this because when

00:03:24.660 we are in this situation, like you said, this is not an accident.

00:03:27.360 This is manufactured.

00:03:28.580 There's a particular set of incentives.

00:03:30.700 We've set up a particular way that we have structured our culture to come to this inevitability.

00:03:35.500 But all of a sudden we have a lot of people standing around saying, what happened?

00:03:38.540 How could this be the case?

00:03:39.540 They want to call back to a time period that they have decried, that they've demonized.

00:03:44.320 They want to bring forth men from a time that they have thrown away and they want them

00:03:49.400 to, to enter into a world that they've created and save them from the consequences of many

00:03:53.820 of the decisions that have been made.

00:03:55.860 So I want to dive into what's happening in New York, the responses to that, what, what

00:04:01.100 could be done, why we got in this situation, and of course your book.

00:04:04.060 But before we get to all that, guys, remember it is your moral duty to hire based people 0.99

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00:05:17.160 All right, Andrew.

00:05:19.180 So I want to give people some context for what we're going to be talking about here.

00:05:22.900 I'm sure a lot of people have seen these kind of videos making the rounds on social media.

00:05:28.860 There's some guy in a subway.

00:05:31.600 He's screaming at people or he's intimidating people.

00:05:34.660 Maybe he's even actively hitting a woman, something like that, something terrible.

00:05:38.720 And a lot of people are standing by.

00:05:41.000 And all of a sudden, we get a lot of people on social media saying, what are these men

00:05:45.300 doing?

00:05:45.780 Why aren't these men in the subway protecting women?

00:05:48.120 What's happening here?

00:05:49.540 And of course, like I said, we see this pop up all the time online.

00:05:53.000 But recently, we just had a councilwoman. 0.96

00:05:56.060 She's apparently on the New York City Council, Amanda Ferris. 0.96

00:06:01.600 And she just said this, that there's a post from the Women's Caucus that says, you know,

00:06:07.440 there's attacks against women in lower Manhattan. 1.00

00:06:09.780 We can't believe that there are all these attacks against women, these violent outbreaks against

00:06:14.540 women in these areas. 0.99

00:06:15.620 And she says, where are all the men calling this out?

00:06:19.580 Now, I don't know.

00:06:20.560 I have this thing I call a memory.

00:06:23.500 It allows me to recall events from more than 10 seconds in the past.

00:06:29.080 And I remember distinctly when Daniel Penny, a former Marine, I believe, who defended a

00:06:36.940 subway full of people, there's a homeless man screaming about the violence he was going

00:06:42.700 to do, many women in the area. 1.00

00:06:45.360 And he attempted to defend the lives and the well-being of people in that car.

00:06:51.300 And when he went ahead and restrained a man, the man ended up dying, unfortunately.

00:06:56.520 But, you know, that's what happens sometimes whenever you take your life into your own

00:07:00.860 hands when you put people in a violent situation.

00:07:03.540 But Daniel Penny was not trying to kill the man.

00:07:05.980 He was simply trying to restrain him.

00:07:07.360 The man was of ill health, of course.

00:07:09.400 And Daniel Penny is now facing a second-degree manslaughter charge.

00:07:13.800 He's supposed to stand trial, I believe, in October for this charge.

00:07:17.800 And for some reason, after attempting to arrest a heroic man who tried to protect women and

00:07:26.040 others in a very similar scenario, nobody wants to risk their lives and their livelihood and

00:07:33.780 their freedom by going out and protecting him.

00:07:36.200 What happened to all the good men, Andrew?

00:07:37.700 I just don't understand what happened to all of them.

00:07:40.100 They just all disappeared.

00:07:41.440 Yeah, exactly.

00:07:43.000 And, I mean, it's similar, you know, the Daniel Penny story is also similar just with crime

00:07:50.660 in general in the country with, you know, the whole, you know, defunding the police situation.

00:07:59.420 And then, you know, you try, you know, not only Derek Chauvin, but the other policemen

00:08:03.860 that were there and put them in prison for, you know, essentially doing their jobs.

00:08:08.660 Like, one, he was just doing crowd control and he's in prison for, like, three years, right?

00:08:12.640 And then they're like, why doesn't anyone want to be a policeman anymore?

00:08:16.680 Where are they?

00:08:17.740 Why can't we find them?

00:08:19.820 And it's obvious why, right?

00:08:21.480 If you criminalize, you know, men doing their job, protecting their communities, and also

00:08:29.140 ordinary citizens who are standing up for the people around them, their neighbors, this

00:08:35.980 is what happens, right?

00:08:37.440 It's obvious, right?

00:08:39.960 And so everybody sees that and they know, I don't want to go to prison, so I'm just going

00:08:44.440 to leave it alone.

00:08:45.680 I'm not going to stick my neck out for anybody.

00:08:48.200 And it's, you know, just basic, you know, anarcho-tyranny where you can allow crime to

00:08:54.080 happen, right?

00:08:55.540 Almost actively promoting it, but then the hammer comes down at anybody who tries to stop

00:09:00.120 it, right?

00:09:00.600 This is not, these are not accidental things.

00:09:02.720 This is, this is like policy by design, right?

00:09:05.400 These are policy decisions that have been made.

00:09:07.440 And so, you know, it's ironic that, yeah, this councilwoman says this and other people

00:09:11.400 are saying this, where are the men?

00:09:12.560 Why aren't they defending the women?

00:09:14.620 But I mean, it's almost like the, the point of, you know, maybe this has happened to you

00:09:20.120 before it's happened to me where like, you hope I was raised, you hold the door open when

00:09:26.920 you're walking into a building for, for other people, especially for women.

00:09:29.940 And it's just natural instinctive what you do.

00:09:32.880 And I've had people give me dirty looks or even say things to me, especially women, when 1.00

00:09:37.600 you hold the door open for them.

00:09:39.360 Like what, I can hold the door open myself, right?

00:09:42.160 And then what happens is why don't, why don't men hold the doors open for women anymore? 0.71

00:09:47.100 Like the same people that are decrying it and saying, this is, this is misogyny to hold

00:09:52.300 the door open for women. 1.00

00:09:53.640 Then they complain about it, right?

00:09:55.400 And they, so they want, you know, they want their cake and, and to eat it too, right?

00:10:00.000 They want to have this egalitarian society where there's no distinctions between men

00:10:04.180 and women. 0.98

00:10:05.240 But then at the same time, they also want men to be very chivalrous and, and, and very

00:10:11.760 respectful of women and, and hold women up on a pedestal like, like they did in the, in

00:10:15.840 the olden days.

00:10:16.780 But you can't have that.

00:10:19.220 You can't have both of those things at the same time.

00:10:21.140 And so they, they want men to defend women. 0.94

00:10:23.200 And this is just a natural, right, you know, normal response.

00:10:26.780 This is, this is how all human societies everywhere have, have operated, understanding that men

00:10:31.240 and women are different, that men are stronger and that they have a duty to, to defend the

00:10:36.220 weaker sex. 0.51

00:10:38.000 And now they don't, right?

00:10:41.340 And, and so there's, there's a freak out about that.

00:10:43.660 And so, you know, there's, it's just this catch 22, right?

00:10:46.860 You, if you defend them, you go to jail.

00:10:49.280 If you don't defend them, they complain about how, how horrible you are, how you don't defend

00:10:54.500 women, how you don't care about their suffering. 1.00

00:10:56.780 And so that's the situation that we're now in.

00:11:00.660 And I don't, I don't exactly know how it changes, right?

00:11:03.780 I don't know how, you know, men like, like Daniel Penny aren't going to do the things

00:11:08.900 they do anymore.

00:11:10.300 At least in the, in the near term.

00:11:12.920 Yeah.

00:11:13.400 It's amazing how this is, this is just the personification of C.S.

00:11:18.220 Lewis's men without chests, right?

00:11:20.500 You, you, you, you, you castrate the gilding and then ask it to bear fruit, right?

00:11:25.920 Like how, how can, you know, you, how can you not protect me after I spent all of my

00:11:31.240 time calling your masculinity toxic?

00:11:33.760 Talking about how your ability to, you know, do something physical to, to, to master that

00:11:39.060 kind of, uh, that kind of space to have that level of aggression.

00:11:42.760 That is all toxic.

00:11:43.860 It's all terrible.

00:11:44.620 But why, why aren't you now out here doing the very thing I've taught you not to do?

00:11:49.040 We spend all of our time, uh, teaching every, uh, male, especially, you know, public school,

00:11:54.260 everything else.

00:11:54.960 Conflict resolution is always completely emotional, right?

00:11:58.600 It's always a therapeutic approach.

00:12:00.620 You'll notice that in that post from that council woman, even the, the, uh, the call to action for

00:12:07.540 men was entirely feminine. 0.97

00:12:09.460 It's why aren't, why aren't you calling this out as if, as if some guy who said she was

00:12:14.700 helping women on a train is like, Oh, I got a stern lecture.

00:12:18.220 I I'll probably call this up, but this really is the, the understanding when you think that

00:12:22.900 every interaction, it can kind of, you can, you can just kind of school marm people into

00:12:28.440 a protection behavior.

00:12:30.260 This, this is where we get.

00:12:31.500 And I think another big part of this is that a lot of, when, when you turn men and women

00:12:38.700 into political interest groups, right?

00:12:41.460 It's all men versus all women, instead of understanding that actually, uh, you, you're 0.97

00:12:48.080 never going to get rid of men.

00:12:49.660 Like, sorry, you're not actually going to like, you know, G word, half of the population.

00:12:53.740 And so what, what's going to happen is you can have good men protect you from bad men,

00:12:58.540 but you're never going to just get rid of the violence of men.

00:13:02.180 And any attempt to do so is actually going to have more horrific results than you can

00:13:06.800 imagine.

00:13:07.140 And we ended up in situations like this where all the good men are completely in, you know,

00:13:11.200 frozen, unable to act in this anarcho tyrannical situation.

00:13:15.160 Like you're explaining and all the women are like, well, I don't understand what, you know, 1.00

00:13:19.300 why, why are you doing this thing that I know deep down you're, you should be doing for

00:13:24.300 me, but yeah, I, but we, we've removed all reason for you to do so.

00:13:28.820 Yeah.

00:13:29.040 And, and it's wild.

00:13:30.180 Like, I mean, yeah, I'm glad you brought up the framing that, that she made, right?

00:13:34.100 Why aren't you calling it out?

00:13:35.560 Right.

00:13:35.780 It's like, well, if I said something, the guy's going to attack me and I'm going to

00:13:39.440 be in a fight and there's going to be violence, right?

00:13:42.200 That's just what happens.

00:13:43.360 Um, and, and yeah, it does.

00:13:46.180 I mean, especially like you bring up, I, I remember, I went to public school.

00:13:48.900 I remember being in grade school and being told that, that violence is never the answer

00:13:54.200 that you just need to talk about your feelings and you, you, you'll be in trouble.

00:13:58.740 I remember thinking like, if I ever threw a punch in school, like they would just put

00:14:03.320 me in jail immediately in like third grade, right?

00:14:06.320 Like, like, like deep in your mind.

00:14:08.180 That's what you're, you're taught that you can never do that.

00:14:10.480 And like the answer to bullying, like when I was in middle school, I was bullied a lot.

00:14:16.600 And I remember telling my dad, um, who is a, you know, wonderful boomer.

00:14:20.800 We love our boomers.

00:14:21.800 Don't we folks?

00:14:22.640 And, uh, and he just told me, well, when these people are being mean to you, Andrew, just, 0.98

00:14:28.920 just punch them. 0.98

00:14:30.120 Right. 0.98

00:14:30.720 And if you get called into the principal's office or you're suspended or whatever, that's

00:14:35.220 okay.

00:14:35.880 You know, I'll stay home with you.

00:14:37.440 That's fine.

00:14:38.360 I'm not going to be mad at you.

00:14:39.340 You're not going to be in trouble.

00:14:40.660 And, um, and I'm grateful that I had a father like that, that, that, that told me those

00:14:45.440 things to stand up for yourself because most people didn't, most people don't, they, they

00:14:49.440 internalize these things throughout, throughout a lifetime of being told, no, be a good boy.

00:14:54.200 Don't ever stand up for yourself.

00:14:56.160 Don't ever stand up for other people.

00:14:58.660 And then we reach a point like this where, where nobody does.

00:15:02.520 And the rare few like, like Daniel Penny, um, they face consequences for it.

00:15:08.860 And, and so how do you, how do you break out of these things?

00:15:11.720 I mean, I know if, if something like Daniel Penny's situation happened in my town, um, you

00:15:20.740 know, very rural, very, I mean, it's a, I'm in Minnesota, so it's a blue state.

00:15:24.640 So Keith Ellison could always change the location of a trial and do those things.

00:15:29.020 But if it were in my County, they wouldn't even charge him, right?

00:15:32.300 They would, they would, they would let him go, right?

00:15:35.420 It would be normal.

00:15:35.940 A parade, right?

00:15:37.180 Yeah.

00:15:37.620 Yeah.

00:15:38.020 They would, they'd give him a key to the city.

00:15:39.700 Yeah.

00:15:40.280 Yeah.

00:15:40.840 And so, I mean, some of it is, you know, you need to be in a geographic location where

00:15:47.440 like normal America still exists, right?

00:15:51.260 That's, that's a big point.

00:15:52.660 Um, I didn't, I would not want to live in New York city for, for this reason or, or Minneapolis

00:15:57.220 even, um, I, I would not want to be in those places for the sake of, of myself and my family.

00:16:02.320 And, um, so like the Daniel Penny thing signals, like, get out, get out of these places.

00:16:08.040 I mean, it's ironic because it happened like right after the big controversy with, uh, the

00:16:13.920 Dilbert guy, you know, just go away, get away.

00:16:17.140 And it's like, yeah, get, get out of these places.

00:16:19.840 Cause you're not going to be able to defend yourself, yourself against crime.

00:16:23.020 Like, even if you try to, the hammer will come down on you and you see, I mean, you see

00:16:27.840 like New York city this past week, um, you know, and all, and all of these things really

00:16:33.000 got overshadowed by other controversies, du jour, um, from the past week.

00:16:37.580 But you, you had that, that police officer who was killed by a guy who had been arrested

00:16:41.980 21 times in and out of jail several times.

00:16:44.680 And, and a guy that should have just been locked up forever.

00:16:48.280 Um, that, that policeman never should have been killed.

00:16:51.060 Um, because like this, this guy should have been locked away and the key thrown away years

00:16:57.940 ago.

00:16:58.300 Right.

00:16:58.920 Um, and, and so a lot of this stuff is like the, the will to deal with crime doesn't exist.

00:17:07.040 And some of it, I think, I mean, you just go back to, you know, the mostly peaceful summer

00:17:10.920 of 2020 and, and the eruption of crime that, that happened after that, uh, the will to deal

00:17:17.840 with crime was taken away.

00:17:18.980 There was this, um, like weaponized empathy that was, was wielded where it's like, oh

00:17:24.380 no, it's, it's these poor people.

00:17:26.540 This is, this is the new Jim Crow and, and they're just getting a raw deal because of 0.97

00:17:31.860 systemic racism and things like that.

00:17:34.200 And it's like, no, no, these are criminals that need to be dealt with.

00:17:36.920 And, and, uh, and so, yeah, a lot of it, I mean, is this, is this feminine frame?

00:17:42.360 I mean, you see it online, you know, people talk about the long house and, and that's, that's

00:17:46.740 what it is.

00:17:47.040 Like that, that tweet from that, that city council woman, it really embodies that, that,

00:17:52.260 um, we're, we're going to Hector you, we're going to lecture you.

00:17:55.000 We're going to be, um, you're going to be under our thumb.

00:17:57.880 And then when you don't do it, what we think you should do, uh, we're going to complain about

00:18:02.360 that as well.

00:18:02.920 Um, and that just, it totally dominates the, the, the entire structure of society where,

00:18:08.820 you know, there, there is no like masculine virtue that is allowed to, um, that's allowed

00:18:16.720 to even develop much less be expressed in situations like this.

00:18:20.380 And so the, the overcoming of it will be, men will have to, uh, summon the will to, to do

00:18:28.520 things that must be done to, to deal with crime, to deal with criminals.

00:18:32.020 And, and I think it, it, it largely will be expressed in the, the, you know, I don't want

00:18:39.720 to say great, I mean, people use the phrase great divorce, but really just this, this sifting

00:18:44.040 of America between the two Americas that exist and the, the good America, the real America

00:18:51.480 where crime is dealt with, there's peace and law and order, uh, that will flourish.

00:18:56.700 Whereas the rest, you know, cities like New York and Minneapolis and Chicago and so forth,

00:19:02.260 uh, will continue to spiral out of control and, and, and destroy themselves, right?

00:19:07.740 That's yeah.

00:19:08.400 And it'll take a long time for this to be sorted out.

00:19:11.340 I'm with you.

00:19:12.120 A lot of people talk about, uh, you know, kind of national divorce, and I don't think we're

00:19:16.600 ever going to get like a formal secession of States.

00:19:19.280 I don't think that anything like that's coming.

00:19:21.480 But I do think the great sword is real, you know, that you're talking about there because

00:19:25.200 you know, uh, look, I have this disagreement all the time with people online, the, the,

00:19:29.240 the shake shack Americans, as we like to call our, our urbanite conservatives, right?

00:19:33.560 Yes.

00:19:34.100 And, and, and I understand their point where you can't, you know, the, the cities are

00:19:38.080 financially powerful.

00:19:39.440 They're culturally powerful.

00:19:40.960 If you abandon them, then you're, you're abandoning all of these influence.

00:19:45.020 I understand what they're saying.

00:19:46.120 I understand where they're coming from, but a lot of time it feels like they just think that

00:19:49.840 at some point, you know, they'll be able to rule from these places.

00:19:53.560 And it's like, yeah, that's not happening guys.

00:19:55.500 Like you said, these places, you can't, you cannot defend yourself.

00:19:58.820 You cannot defend your family.

00:20:00.400 You cannot have families here.

00:20:01.940 And so, okay, so you're the king of what?

00:20:04.400 Yeah. 0.85

00:20:04.600 This desolated, you know, wasteland of crime and, and degeneracy that's, that's, that's useless 0.87

00:20:09.420 to you.

00:20:09.980 And so I think you're right that over time, we're going to see even more of this sorting,

00:20:15.600 you know, say what you want there, you know, nothing, no state is perfect, but you know,

00:20:19.680 we didn't have a lot of BLM writing in Florida.

00:20:22.020 You know, I've got a sheriff, you know, when there were looters during a hurricane came who 0.95

00:20:26.360 said, uh, yeah, if someone comes and takes your stuff, shoot them dead and let everybody

00:20:29.740 else know that if they come, you know, they're not going to make it through here. 0.96

00:20:32.940 That's the kind of stuff that will change the way that you approach, you know, the, the

00:20:37.740 law and order in your area that a narco tyranny is a feature. 0.95

00:20:41.540 It's not a bug in, in the, the therapeutic state, the idea that, you know, the, everything,

00:20:47.840 all these conflicts can just be managed away.

00:20:50.080 And that means that you'll go ahead and get rid of all the other uncomfortable things like

00:20:53.940 crime statistics that people start to notice once you start actually enforcing the law,

00:20:58.180 that's always going to lead you to ruin.

00:21:00.880 Right.

00:21:01.120 And I think that one of the reasons that it's been so important to get rid of masculinity,

00:21:06.640 there's a, there's a lot of reasons why that's become important, but one of the most important

00:21:10.520 reasons for the total state for the, for the attempt to kind of bring everything under centralized

00:21:15.480 state rule is getting rid of what was kind of that, uh, that buffer of, of, uh, violence,

00:21:23.720 there's a difference between, Hey, we need to resolve this issue and Hey, we need a guy

00:21:30.860 with a gun and a badge to come in and resolve this issue.

00:21:33.800 And that buffer used to be the domain of men. 0.99

00:21:36.460 It used to be the domain of fathers.

00:21:39.140 It used to be the domain of brothers.

00:21:40.740 We can, we can resolve something.

00:21:42.720 And, and this is what created a high trust society.

00:21:45.720 How can a woman who doesn't have a, you know, a family member, a male family member standing 1.00

00:21:51.160 next to her safely get onto public transit?

00:21:53.400 Well, the answer is because everyone else, every other man in that piece of public transit

00:21:58.820 is acting as a surrogate protector, right?

00:22:01.200 He understands he has a particular duty as a man, he has a particular role as a man, even

00:22:05.460 if he doesn't know that woman, even though he gets no particular, uh, value from standing

00:22:10.940 up for her, he knows it's his moral duty.

00:22:13.220 He understands this is social obligation as a, as a Christian, as a man to go ahead and stand

00:22:17.880 between her and violence, even though he receives no benefit, even though he has no familiar,

00:22:22.460 familial connection.

00:22:23.620 And that buffering of, of violence that, that, okay, men are ready to stand in, even if they

00:22:29.940 are not professionals, even if they're not equipped by the state meant that we didn't

00:22:33.480 have to have what we have now.

00:22:35.380 Now, now New York is walking people through every single, uh, subway entrance as if it's

00:22:41.020 the, uh, the TSA, which is itself already an insane invasion of, of privacy.

00:22:45.860 And we're doing all of these things because we're pretending we don't know where crime

00:22:49.280 comes from and we don't know how to stop it.

00:22:51.860 And so instead we're, we're doing this anarcho tyranny where we have every law abiding person

00:22:56.420 sit there and get scanned.

00:22:58.260 But the people who we know are dangerous, uh, we, we, we pretend aren't dangerous.

00:23:02.540 And then if someone tries to step in and stop them, we punish them.

00:23:05.700 And so it's no surprise that if you want, if the state wants to have all of this tower,

00:23:09.760 power, if the state wants to be able to stop every citizen and search them, no matter what

00:23:13.900 they look like, if the state wants to be able to lock everyone up and have the, the true

00:23:18.160 monopoly on violence, even the most, uh, the most, uh, you know, low grade version of it,

00:23:22.860 which keeps people safe.

00:23:24.920 Then they need to eliminate, eliminate those intermediate roles in violence that men used

00:23:30.220 to play.

00:23:31.280 When I found out my friend got a great deal on a designer dress from winners, I started

00:23:36.040 wondering, is every fabulous item I see from winners?

00:23:39.560 Like that woman over there with the Italian leather handbag. 1.00

00:23:43.020 Is that from winners?

00:23:44.220 Ooh, or that beautiful silk skirt. 0.99

00:23:46.740 Did she pay full price?

00:23:47.980 Or those suede sneakers?

00:23:49.560 Or that luggage?

00:23:50.640 Or that trench?

00:23:51.780 Those jeans?

00:23:52.480 That jacket?

00:23:53.200 Those heels? 1.00

00:23:54.080 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:23:57.000 Stop wondering.

00:23:58.300 Start winning.

00:23:59.240 Winners.

00:23:59.800 Find fabulous for less.

00:24:01.360 Yeah.

00:24:01.880 Yeah.

00:24:02.180 And I mean, it's, it's interesting too.

00:24:04.060 You know, I don't know if you saw the, um, the funeral for the police officer, the NYPD

00:24:10.100 officer, um, over the weekend and, and, and just this crowd of, of 10,000 uniformed officers,

00:24:17.400 you know, um, at, at his funeral.

00:24:20.220 And you think, right, those are, those are all, I mean, mostly men that, um, have, have taken

00:24:28.800 this vow to, to defend their community and how, what can those guys be thinking, right?

00:24:35.440 Having, you know, Kathy Hochul be the governor and Erica Adams be the mayor and just things

00:24:40.820 being run into the ground, um, all around them, you know, like they have to be longing

00:24:45.940 for someone to come in and restore order to this place.

00:24:49.820 And, and even like normal people that live in, in New York city, which I think there are

00:24:56.060 a few, right?

00:24:56.940 I mean, here in like rural America, we think, yeah, we think, we think it's just all, they're 0.99

00:25:01.240 all crazy people. 0.98

00:25:02.020 Right.

00:25:02.360 But, um, there, there are actually normal people that live in these places that, that want to

00:25:06.820 have, want to have order.

00:25:08.100 They don't want rampant crime.

00:25:09.580 And, and once upon a time, like Rudy Giuliani did get elected mayor of New York city, like

00:25:15.240 basically on that, that same agenda and did clean it up.

00:25:19.420 And so, you know, will we return to a time like the, you know, 1990s, uh, the mid 1990s

00:25:25.580 where, uh, law and order will be pursued, um, as, as like the, the top of the agenda,

00:25:31.620 um, in, in local and regional politics, even national politics.

00:25:34.920 It was like that, that was, you know, in 2020, that was like the big thing against Biden that

00:25:39.440 they were saying is like, oh, he passed the crime bill and he's so bad.

00:25:42.060 It's like, that's like the only good thing he ever did when he was in the United States

00:25:47.140 Senate, um, was, was passing that, that, that, the crime bill in the mid nineties.

00:25:51.440 And, um, and so you look at it, like, um, can that occur again?

00:25:55.980 Maybe.

00:25:56.760 Um, but I think it has to continue to, to get worse before people recognize reality.

00:26:01.760 Um, I mean, it's the same thing with, um, with the immigration issue, right?

00:26:06.540 You have to be like watching videos of thousands of people rushing across the border and trampling

00:26:11.440 over national guardsmen before you're like, maybe this isn't so good, right?

00:26:15.520 Maybe this is a problem and we should deal with it.

00:26:18.220 Um, and so, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm always, I'm always optimistic about this stuff.

00:26:23.220 You know, I hate, I hate that everyone wants to black bill and think like, oh, it's all

00:26:27.440 over where there's nothing we can do.

00:26:28.920 Like the solutions to these things are obvious, right?

00:26:32.220 Um, they're obvious to everyone, right?

00:26:35.540 Human societies, cities have already technology that has existed for thousands and thousands

00:26:40.880 of years and they know how, they knew how to deal with crime.

00:26:43.660 And all of a sudden we're in the 21st century and we're like, oh, we just have no idea.

00:26:47.580 Where does this come from?

00:26:48.400 What is this?

00:26:49.300 Right?

00:26:49.460 No, everybody knows how you do it.

00:26:51.820 And, um, the only question is when does this, you know, therapeutic state just, just collapse

00:26:57.560 and die and people want, um, toughness and order.

00:27:01.060 Like you, you see like, um, you know, Trump kind of speaking off the cuff at, at this funeral

00:27:06.420 and, and, and saying, you know, in kind of a very, um, low key tone, he knows he's at

00:27:11.960 a funeral and, and, uh, is trying not to make it too overtly political.

00:27:16.140 Um, but just saying, no, there needs to, there needs to be order.

00:27:20.220 There needs to be, the crime needs to be dealt with.

00:27:22.760 We need to, we need to get tougher.

00:27:23.840 And I mean, that resonates massively with people when they, when they see this, when

00:27:28.700 they see the image of, um, you know, the, the widow of that police officer and his, you

00:27:33.800 know, little boy, right?

00:27:35.520 You, you see that and, and you think like this, this was a policy decision that caused

00:27:41.880 this, right?

00:27:42.540 This little boy reaching out to his father's casket.

00:27:44.620 Like this, this, someone chose many, many people with power chose to have this situation

00:27:49.720 exist and, um, it, it, it has to change.

00:27:54.280 It has to change.

00:27:55.200 And I think people, I mean, I'm, I'm never like, oh, the sheeple are waking up, right?

00:28:00.020 The masses are waking up.

00:28:01.100 I'd never like that.

00:28:01.920 Like, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not a populist in that sense.

00:28:05.560 Right.

00:28:05.900 Uh, where I, I believe where, oh, you just got to wake up the majority and they'll, they'll

00:28:09.660 discover it.

00:28:10.200 No, I think it's, it's more of a question of, um, of, of just like basic elite theory, right?

00:28:15.980 They see a crown lying in the gutter and someone near the top has to say, all right, I'm going

00:28:22.320 to pick it up.

00:28:23.060 I'm going to pick it up and I'm going to restore order and, and justice and, and peace to my

00:28:29.100 country and, and do the things that must be done.

00:28:31.280 And you've seen this happen in foreign countries, right?

00:28:34.540 Like El Salvador, um, is, is the main example, um, where that was like the murder capital of 0.99

00:28:41.180 the world.

00:28:41.840 And now it's one of the most peaceful countries.

00:28:44.000 And what did they do?

00:28:45.500 Well, they just locked up all of the MS-13 members, right?

00:28:49.080 Like, and then all the murder went away.

00:28:50.980 Crazy how that happened.

00:28:52.320 And, and so that is, is what will have to occur here in the United States.

00:28:56.680 And I, I honestly, I think it will, I think it will, but there might be between now and

00:29:00.320 then though, it, it could get much, much worse.

00:29:03.300 Yeah.

00:29:03.700 It's like you said, these are all policy decisions.

00:29:06.060 None of these are accidents.

00:29:07.520 There's no, yeah, there, there, there's no mistake here.

00:29:10.480 No, whoops.

00:29:11.080 Yeah.

00:29:11.280 This is something that people are actively introducing.

00:29:13.420 We know the answers to these questions, but I've seen this so often, you know, it, uh, I

00:29:18.540 spent a lot of time as a public school teacher and it's amazing how much kind of civilizational

00:29:26.040 scaffolding we put around these ideas so that we can't see basic truth, right?

00:29:32.220 Like everybody in, everybody in a school building knows what discipline works.

00:29:39.000 Everybody in a school building knows how to properly instruct kids.

00:29:42.980 There's no, there's no surprise there, but the problem is it doesn't work equally across

00:29:47.040 all populations.

00:29:48.380 And that's a big no, no.

00:29:50.020 We can't notice that.

00:29:50.980 We're not allowed to have those kinds of statistics, those results.

00:29:53.840 And so we erect a large amount of artificial scaffolding around the entire educational

00:29:58.680 process to make sure that there's a bunch of BS that people can make money off of and

00:30:03.780 seminars they can sell and trainings they can do to pretend like they're going to generate

00:30:08.120 results that never come around.

00:30:10.880 And then when they don't come around, we just go back to blaming them on racism or sexism

00:30:14.680 or whatever.

00:30:15.480 And it's the same thing with crime here, right?

00:30:17.280 Like we, we continuously know what happens.

00:30:20.100 If you talk to any sheriff, they always say, I know, yeah, I know exactly where the crime

00:30:23.980 occurs in my area.

00:30:25.780 I know exactly what's responsible.

00:30:27.800 I know exactly how to stop this.

00:30:29.700 There's nothing new about crime in, in cities.

00:30:32.860 There's nothing new about policing.

00:30:35.100 Of course, you know, different technologies will come around.

00:30:37.480 Tweaks can be made, but ultimately we understand the basics of how this works, but we have to

00:30:42.540 erect a massive amount of scaffolding around all of our, our theory so that we can pretend

00:30:48.080 like the obvious thing isn't true.

00:30:49.700 You know, we have this, this failed system of restorative justice that's there so we can

00:30:55.580 cook the numbers on the books to make it, you know, the prison population look smaller

00:30:59.300 and, and change the demographic, you know, representation, everything there.

00:31:03.260 We, we have all of these different policies that we make sure we never use, you know, because

00:31:08.400 if they, if we use them, you know, that, that could really offend some of our sensibilities.

00:31:13.020 And I think you're right that eventually what's going to happen, it's, it's not going to

00:31:16.380 be top down, but what's going to happen is, is people are going to sort themselves into

00:31:20.560 areas and then it's like, okay, like, okay, well, do you like the thing where they don't

00:31:24.900 ignore the problem and they use a solution that might be slightly uncomfortable?

00:31:28.660 Well, then you should move to Florida or Texas or, you know, wherever.

00:31:32.120 Oh, okay.

00:31:32.560 Well, you, you don't mind, you know, getting constant, you, you, uh, what's the, uh, Anna

00:31:38.220 Kasparian, I think is the, over at, uh, uh, TYT.

00:31:41.480 I can't believe I keep getting mugged in these places that are following the policies I believed

00:31:45.940 in my entire life.

00:31:47.380 Wait, all of a sudden I'm a neoconservative.

00:31:49.580 What a miracle.

00:31:50.460 Well, you know, like, like eventually these people either figure it out or they just become

00:31:54.920 willing participants in a system that destroys them.

00:31:57.920 And I think that that is exactly what we're going to see is this, this constant sorting

00:32:01.700 is what's going to solve that.

00:32:03.140 I don't know if we're going to see a national solution, but I think we will see regional

00:32:06.560 solutions because the people who can will move and they'll invest in those societies and

00:32:11.660 those, uh, communities that are actually going to protect them.

00:32:14.940 Yeah.

00:32:15.340 And I, and I think, you know, to the, to the question of like cities, you can have, um,

00:32:21.160 you know, cities in, in these red states that you can wield influence in and they'll, they'll

00:32:27.000 continue to grow.

00:32:27.640 Like, like Florida is a good example.

00:32:29.700 You know, there's, there's several very large cities in Florida that, um, that are, are much

00:32:34.960 safer to live in than the New York city or Los Angeles or, um, or San Francisco or Chicago.

00:32:42.440 And I mean, what, what, I mean, you think about that and as the great sort continues

00:32:47.940 out over a generation, um, those places will continue to grow, they'll continue to grow

00:32:52.840 economically.

00:32:53.920 And they, you, you can see in like 50 years, you know, Miami being the center of the new

00:33:01.240 New York city, right?

00:33:02.520 Things like that, where New York continues to decline and it's, it's economic prominence

00:33:07.420 starts to wane, right?

00:33:09.000 Um, that, that has happened, like you, you have civilizations, I mean, just even looking

00:33:13.440 through history with these great massive cities that ruled the world and then all of a sudden

00:33:19.460 they're empty, right?

00:33:20.960 That, that happens and it happens for reasons.

00:33:22.940 And sometimes it's puzzling to historians, like, how did this happen?

00:33:25.860 And, and, and maybe it will be, you know, thousands of years from now, they'll look at

00:33:29.980 New York, why was New York city so wonderful and so powerful?

00:33:32.600 And then nobody's there anymore, right?

00:33:35.120 Um, like things like that really do happen.

00:33:37.640 And, and, and I think that is probably, you know, just, just for like normal people, like

00:33:42.740 what do you do in this situation?

00:33:43.980 Well, that's the solution for, for you is, and especially as, as these grow, I mean, there,

00:33:49.560 there are, there are more jobs, more opportunity in these places and, and more ability for people

00:33:55.720 to move.

00:33:56.180 Um, I mean, I've, my, um, my parents live in Florida half of the year and every time

00:34:00.500 I go visit them, there's like 50 new sub-developments where they used to have fields of cows, right?

00:34:06.900 It's like, huh, that's weird.

00:34:08.880 Um, I wonder why that's happening, right?

00:34:10.980 Well, it's obvious, right?

00:34:12.160 It's obvious.

00:34:12.780 It's, it is a place that people want to, to be in, uh, because it's much, much safer.

00:34:17.360 I mean, there, there still is, um, a fair amount of crime in, in Florida.

00:34:21.180 Um, but it's nowhere near like the major, major cities.

00:34:26.940 And so, uh, yeah, I, I think that's what will continue to occur.

00:34:29.800 Um, and it'll happen not just in a place like Florida, but all sorts of other red states,

00:34:33.840 um, you know, in, in the South and in the Midwest.

00:34:37.180 And, and you'll, you'll, you'll see politics respond to this, right?

00:34:41.480 You'll see politicians, like they'll, they, they will look at someone like DeSantis and

00:34:45.700 begin to emulate the things that he's done in Florida for their own states.

00:34:49.500 And you're already starting to see this in, in many places.

00:34:53.440 Yeah.

00:34:53.920 I, I, I do think we need a, some border control, uh, in Florida, you know, it starts at the

00:34:59.120 Mason Dixon line, turn them around, you know, if they, they like, like, I don't mind some

00:35:03.060 of the base people moving down, but, uh, too, too many people are moving in, uh, who, you

00:35:07.320 know, I want to check your bonafide.

00:35:09.100 Sorry.

00:35:09.360 I want your voting record for the last, you know, uh, 20 years before you can, where you

00:35:13.900 can cross in and move into my neighborhood.

00:35:15.860 But, uh, but yeah, uh, I think that's correct.

00:35:19.060 And so I want to, I want to make sure before time gets away from us that we talk a little

00:35:23.900 bit about your book.

00:35:24.760 I know, uh, you know, congratulations, uh, apparently Joe Rogan's been checking out the

00:35:29.400 Boniface option.

00:35:30.800 Uh, yeah, at least, uh, yeah, at least, you know, Cam Haynes, um, it appears to be reading

00:35:36.440 it and he shared, uh, Joe shared the post on Instagram of, of Cameron Haynes.

00:35:41.460 Uh, so it's like, okay, Joe, read, read the book, man.

00:35:44.200 Uh, and, and so, yeah, it's great.

00:35:48.100 Um, and, and the book has been, you know, um, way more successful than, than I, I thought,

00:35:53.520 you know, you write, you write anything and you think whatever you wrote is going to be

00:35:58.340 awesome and everyone will like it.

00:35:59.560 And I've posted things where I'm like, this is the best thing I ever wrote.

00:36:02.040 And it gets like a hundred views.

00:36:03.960 Right.

00:36:04.520 Um, and so you just never know.

00:36:05.940 It's like just total leap of faith.

00:36:07.280 And, and I was really excited about the book and, and I'm very pleased that, that lots and

00:36:12.080 lots of people have, have really, really enjoyed it.

00:36:14.900 So tell us a little bit about this.

00:36:16.420 Cause I know, you know, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is that obvious I've

00:36:20.080 read the, about the first third of the book so far, but, uh, you know, you talk about,

00:36:24.960 uh, you know, kind of why we're in this scenario, why culture has gone this way, why we would

00:36:30.580 lose the ability to sit, you know, have a, a high trust society that would protect women. 0.76

00:36:35.960 You directly address that, at least in the part of the book that I've read so far.

00:36:39.500 So can you talk a little about the book and kind of what, what it goes into?

00:36:43.820 Yeah.

00:36:44.280 I mean, the, you know, the major premise of the book is that you, you, you have all sorts

00:36:51.500 of people, um, you know, commentators and so forth that are like, oh man, things could

00:36:55.920 get really bad, right?

00:36:57.540 If Klaus Schwab and the world economic forum take over, we'll be eating bugs and living

00:37:01.480 in the pod and it'll be this horrific dystopia and, and so awful.

00:37:07.120 And I'm like, wait, wait a second, like step back and, and think about the world we already

00:37:11.360 do live in, right?

00:37:13.080 The, the social conditions, um, you know, every, every aspect of the life of, of life that

00:37:17.900 we have here today.

00:37:19.280 And like, if you, if you painted this picture, um, to people living a hundred years ago of the,

00:37:25.220 the life that we have right now, they would think that something way worse than our, our

00:37:31.080 greatest fears, uh, has already occurred, right?

00:37:34.480 They already, they would think that we're already living in this, this horrible dystopia.

00:37:38.040 And, and so a lot of the, you know, the first half of the book is, it's kind of black, but I don't 0.91

00:37:44.320 want to black people, black bill people. 0.99

00:37:46.100 I don't want to make them depressed and, and, and think, oh, it's all over. 0.98

00:37:49.220 What can I do?

00:37:50.400 Um, but some of it is like, there's so many people that don't even realize things are really

00:37:56.020 bad.

00:37:56.400 And so, yeah, you know, taking them through, um, just the, the massive shifts, um, economically

00:38:02.820 that have occurred and, and sociologically, the massive shifts in, in families, you know,

00:38:07.620 we don't, we don't have children anymore.

00:38:09.140 We don't really have, we, we have marriage, but it's not really the same thing that it

00:38:13.220 was, um, throughout all of history.

00:38:16.200 Um, we don't have the, the distinction between men and women, um, certainly economically, but

00:38:21.620 really in every aspect, um, there's this, this egalitarian sentiment where, where men

00:38:27.120 and women are, they're exactly the same and you can't treat them any different. 1.00

00:38:29.860 We can't think about them any differently.

00:38:31.360 Um, and, and, and so much of, of the life that we've had has been purposefully destroyed.

00:38:39.180 And, and so you see situations like this, right?

00:38:42.020 With the crime and women being attacked and, and we know why it's happened, right?

00:38:46.720 This world has been created for us, right?

00:38:48.620 In, in the, in like the nineties and two thousands, you'd hear about like social engineering.

00:38:53.340 People would talk on the conservative world, talk about like, we don't, we don't believe

00:38:57.420 it.

00:38:57.560 We don't want to practice social engineering, things like that.

00:38:59.940 And it's like, well, that's what they've been doing for 60, 70, 80 years is socially

00:39:05.900 engineering a society that we now have a society we now live in.

00:39:11.020 And so it's not, it's not by accident, right?

00:39:14.160 It's not by just happenstance.

00:39:16.260 It's like, well, this is just market conditions that created the thing that we have.

00:39:19.700 Um, it, it's, it, it's been done on, on purpose.

00:39:23.360 Um, and so then once you recognize the, the gravity of the situation that we're in, then

00:39:32.160 you can begin to start taking steps personally to change, uh, the situation for yourself,

00:39:38.240 for your family, for your community and, um, and begin to, to do things like it's not, it's

00:39:45.040 not, uh, permanently like this, right?

00:39:47.060 You could, there are ways out.

00:39:48.560 Yeah.

00:39:48.940 A lot of people obviously, you know, I've been worrying about this for a long time.

00:39:52.800 I point this out all the time, you know, the religious right in the seventies and the

00:39:56.260 eighties, we're talking about where all this was going to go.

00:39:59.260 And the weird thing that happens is there's so many times we were warned.

00:40:02.640 There's a point of no return.

00:40:03.800 There's a point of no return, you know, that we're going to, where things are going

00:40:06.500 to get too bad.

00:40:07.860 And, you know, all the people who warned about that are still acting, you know, 30, 40 years

00:40:13.780 later, as if nothing has happened, you know, they're, they're still giving the same warning.

00:40:17.920 Oh, just wait till that next thing comes.

00:40:19.580 But like you said, like, no, we're already here.

00:40:21.680 You're already living in that time.

00:40:23.600 You have already, you've already passed beyond that threshold.

00:40:26.440 You already threw that looking glass and you're so the frog has been boiled so slowly.

00:40:30.820 You don't even notice it.

00:40:31.920 And so if you show the, the world today to somebody from the eighties, it just, oh my

00:40:38.160 God, it's way worse than I, than I ever thought.

00:40:40.340 Like, you know, the, the, the, the craziest member of the Westboro Baptist church would 0.98

00:40:44.020 have been like, well, come on guys, let's, yeah, not, that's not going to happen. 0.93

00:40:47.080 Let's not get ridiculous here.

00:40:48.480 And yet here we are.

00:40:49.660 And so, you know, a lot of people, you know, Rob Dreher is famous for his book, the Benedict

00:40:54.600 option, which he actually took from Elisdale McIntyre, even though it's not really the point

00:40:58.440 of that, that book.

00:40:59.280 And McIntyre funny, funny enough, I believe McIntyre said something like, yeah, they're

00:41:03.140 like, how do you, how do you feel about the, you know, the Benedict option?

00:41:05.900 He's like, I wish Rod would have read the rest of the book.

00:41:08.400 But, you know, but, but the, but the, you know, the Benedict option is basically this

00:41:14.400 idea of, we just have to withdraw.

00:41:16.460 Now we've already talked about how there is important to relocate to situations where

00:41:21.480 you can raise your family safely, where there is a opportunity to defend yourself and, and

00:41:27.040 have a good, you know, place for your family.

00:41:29.860 However, I feel like the Boniface option is probably a little different from the full on

00:41:33.820 Benedict option, right?

00:41:34.900 I think that's, that's kind of part of where that came from.

00:41:37.960 Yeah.

00:41:38.520 Yeah.

00:41:38.920 I mean, speaking of Rod, like he, uh, he read the book and reviewed it and he didn't like

00:41:44.760 it.

00:41:45.300 Uh, he thought, and he described me as a very angry young man, right?

00:41:51.220 Very angry.

00:41:51.960 And I don't, I mean, I've been on your show here for 40 minutes.

00:41:54.420 So your audience can, they can decide how angry I am.

00:41:57.480 And I don't usually, I'm, I have a cold right now.

00:41:59.700 I've lost my voice.

00:42:00.460 So I, I sound way more gruff than I normally do.

00:42:02.620 So maybe that's not helping my point, but I feel like I'm a pretty jovial, gregarious

00:42:07.620 kind of guy.

00:42:08.540 So I think Rod has me pegged wrong here.

00:42:11.700 And, uh, and so, yeah, I, I, um, my, my main contention with, with his book, it's like,

00:42:18.940 okay, I read the Benedict option.

00:42:20.260 I actually, I liked it for the most part.

00:42:21.920 And, and I got to the end of it and I thought, okay, well then now what, right?

00:42:25.980 I've built my, uh, Christian, you know, right wing community out in the woods.

00:42:30.440 And we, uh, we have this wonderful hobbit shire life, uh, but like Mordor is still out

00:42:36.460 there, man.

00:42:37.700 And the orcs are coming.

00:42:39.980 What do we do?

00:42:41.300 And, and, and so my book kind of came out of that where it's like, okay, we have this

00:42:45.640 now we have a defensive, like tactical strategy for the near term.

00:42:50.300 Um, but then what do we do from here, right?

00:42:52.940 We have, we have to go on offense, right?

00:42:54.800 We have to be much more aggressive.

00:42:57.120 And so you, you see this kind of, um, this development, um, among, uh, especially evangelicalism,

00:43:04.840 but, but not, not, not exclusively just, just Christians in America that there's kind of

00:43:10.640 like three divergent paths, right?

00:43:12.680 You have the ones that want to continue kind of the normie con, uh, you know, boomer con 0.76

00:43:17.500 kind of sensibilities and things are okay.

00:43:19.120 We just need to, we're just going to vote our way out of it and be really nice and inoffensive

00:43:23.940 and never step on any toes.

00:43:25.940 And then you have a group that kind of just wants to do Benedict option kind of type of

00:43:30.160 stuff and just withdraw.

00:43:31.620 And, um, and, and it's very pacifistic, right?

00:43:35.080 We're just going to step out of these things and not worry ourselves with the world.

00:43:38.720 And then the third one is like, no, it's time to go on offense.

00:43:42.120 It's time to be much more aggressive.

00:43:43.660 It's time to, um, you know, speak frankly and, and admit the reality to oppose, you know,

00:43:51.840 things like transgenderism and homosexuality and, and, um, you know, feminism and all of

00:43:57.420 the, all of the social ills that are all around us, right?

00:44:00.220 And just be bold, right?

00:44:01.340 We know that we're out of step with the, the mainstream culture and like, you can see what

00:44:06.900 mainstream culture is like and that's okay.

00:44:09.040 I don't want, why would you want to be, you know, liked by our culture?

00:44:13.140 And so I think that, that third group, the ones that are much more aggressive, um, are

00:44:18.700 going to gain, um, gain a much bigger, you know, I hate using this terminology, but like

00:44:24.760 market share, uh, within the church that, that people, especially men, right?

00:44:29.660 And it's like not a coincidence that like this passage in my book gets shared by, by Cameron

00:44:34.380 Haynes and then Joe Rogan about masculinity, where it's like, no, God, God made men to be

00:44:39.340 men and that's good, right?

00:44:40.960 He made men to, to have strength and to, to be aggressive.

00:44:44.900 He made men to go to war, right?

00:44:47.000 Adam is in the garden and Adam is, is supposed to cut the head off the snake, right?

00:44:52.840 When it comes in, he's supposed to guard and keep the garden, right?

00:44:55.800 This is a big point I make in the book and he fails.

00:44:58.700 He doesn't do that.

00:44:59.880 He lets his wife get attacked and casts all of humanity into, into, uh, curse and death.

00:45:06.660 And, and so God wants us to be, to be men.

00:45:09.740 He wants us to, to, uh, be willing to fight for things that are good, right?

00:45:14.900 To stand up for things that are, that are good and right and true.

00:45:17.820 And so, um, I think, I think those things are going to continue to, to gain, um, and grow

00:45:26.220 and be very attractive to, to men.

00:45:28.660 Like I, I, I see this just in generally like in, in the right online and, um, that, that

00:45:35.660 Christianity, the Christian religion has become much more attractive to, to men, um, in, in

00:45:42.480 kind of the online right.

00:45:44.340 And, um, and, and to the extent that it will embrace these things that it's like, it's,

00:45:49.900 it's okay to be a man, right?

00:45:51.400 You don't have to apologize.

00:45:52.280 It's okay to, uh, to be rough around the edges, even a little bit.

00:45:57.000 It's, it's okay to be this way and, and stand up for things because, um, in the past it has

00:46:03.320 been, you become a Christian, you have to, you have to check all of your masculinity at 0.62

00:46:09.100 the door. 0.97

00:46:09.520 You kind of have to be a doormat.

00:46:10.880 And, and the big thing in the evangelical world was like being a servant leader.

00:46:14.260 You got to be a servant leader, right?

00:46:16.080 Which just means do whatever your wife tells you to do, right?

00:46:19.900 And never, never actually lead.

00:46:22.280 Um, and, and that was just like really repulsive to normal men.

00:46:28.340 And, and so our, our churches have largely been dominated by women, uh, for that reason. 0.65

00:46:34.440 And, and, and so, right, if you change that paradigm, if men are actually allowed to lead,

00:46:39.840 they're allowed to lead their families, lead in, in the workplace and in businesses, uh,

00:46:44.220 lead in, in culture and society and politics, um, you can have a lot of changes happen very

00:46:51.160 drastically and lots of men will want to join this where you don't have to pretend to not

00:46:56.700 be a man, to be a Christian.

00:46:58.040 Like it's, it's now actually, it's very attractive, um, to be, to be willing to fight, uh, to be

00:47:03.660 willing to fight against things that are bad, right?

00:47:05.600 That's, that's good.

00:47:06.320 People want to do that.

00:47:07.140 They want to hear that.

00:47:07.700 They see, they see the stuff they see like, you know, transgender visibility day instead of

00:47:12.160 Easter being celebrated by the white house.

00:47:15.260 And they want, you know, pastors and leaders in the church to say, that's really bad.

00:47:21.060 That's horrible.

00:47:21.740 That's evil.

00:47:22.400 Like Joe Biden needs to repent.

00:47:23.720 That's, that's wicked.

00:47:24.980 Um, and in the past, right, if that happened, you know, if Obama had done that in, in 2010

00:47:30.820 or something where every evangelical leader would be like, just pretend it didn't happen.

00:47:36.120 And so you, you saw much more reaction now, um, in, in over the weekend because of it.

00:47:42.580 And I think a lot of it is, you know, uh, Christians that are, are on the online right

00:47:47.940 are, are far more aggressive than they ever have been before.

00:47:51.660 And they're pushing the church to, to be more on this kind of war footing.

00:47:56.640 And like, you see this, I mean, and it plays kind of into like the Christian nationalism in

00:48:01.180 debate and people will take even like language, like, like I had, like, even in that quote,

00:48:06.080 you know, I, it's, I said something about like, God has called you to, to holy war, right?

00:48:10.620 Not in the sense of like fed posting, right?

00:48:14.420 Not in the sense of like, yeah, go join a militia or something, but, but rather, you know,

00:48:19.480 to be a bold man that stands for the truth.

00:48:22.340 And you see this with like, like guys like James Lindsay were like, no, Christian nationalism

00:48:25.980 is this op.

00:48:26.800 It's, uh, it's, it's the psyop from the government.

00:48:30.900 They're trying to turn, uh, Christian nationalists into terrorists and things like that.

00:48:35.500 And it's like, like, that's actually not going to work because evangelical Christians are, 0.52

00:48:40.580 are generally very stable people.

00:48:42.900 That's not usually the pool that the FBI, when they try to find some schizophrenic guy

00:48:47.920 to do, to do something and, and cajole him into, into entrapping himself.

00:48:52.680 Those, those aren't usually the people that fall for that stuff, right?

00:48:55.560 It's rather like, I just want Christian men to act like men and, and let the chips fall 1.00

00:48:59.980 over the man.

00:49:00.940 Yeah.

00:49:01.380 Well, from, from what I understand, you know, Christ is King is also an op, you know, that,

00:49:05.480 that turns out it was actually just every form of Christianity who knew that the militant

00:49:12.380 atheist didn't want to see Christianity.

00:49:15.060 Very surprising though.

00:49:16.460 Uh, funny enough, uh, you know, Richard Dawkins actually just lamented the loss of Christianity.

00:49:20.660 I'll be doing a column about that this week.

00:49:22.780 I'm going to get more detail of that, but all right.

00:49:24.960 So, uh, Andrew, before we switch over to the questions of the people, where can people find

00:49:30.040 your book?

00:49:30.520 Where can they find your other work online, Twitter, everything like that?

00:49:33.780 Yeah.

00:49:34.080 So, um, it is, uh, you can go to bonifaceoption.com and that'll take you right to the Amazon link.

00:49:40.820 Or if you just want to go to Amazon and type in Boniface option and my name, um, it should

00:49:46.060 come up and, uh, you can find it there.

00:49:48.680 I hope, uh, yeah, I hope, I hope you, you, your audience, uh, reads it and, and really

00:49:53.320 enjoys it and it gets a lot out of it.

00:49:55.300 Um, and other work that, that I'm doing, you know, I'm on, I'm on Twitter at Boniface

00:49:59.740 option.

00:50:00.160 That's the, that's, that's my handle.

00:50:02.160 And, um, and I also, I do a podcast with, uh, CJ Engel, uh, who does work with, uh, Chronicles

00:50:08.140 magazine.

00:50:09.320 Um, our, our podcast is called Contramundum.

00:50:12.300 Um, it's a little bit smaller than yours.

00:50:14.180 Um, but, uh, uh, for now, but, uh, if they want to check that out, we talk about, um,

00:50:19.880 we talk about politics and Christian nationalism and, uh, culture and, and many of the things

00:50:26.440 that, that you talk about here.

00:50:28.340 Um, and, and CJ is brilliant.

00:50:30.580 I always say he's the star of the show and the brains of the operation and, uh, people,

00:50:35.080 yeah, I think we'll really enjoy that as well.

00:50:37.380 Excellent guys.

00:50:37.960 We'll make sure that you check out, uh, Andrew's book, make sure that you're checking

00:50:41.460 out the podcast, everything else.

00:50:43.100 Let's go ahead and see what questions we have here.

00:50:46.400 A perspicacious heretic says the woke is getting punched away.

00:50:50.980 You know, I've claimed victory many times in my ongoing dispute with Nima Parvini, uh, academic

00:50:58.660 agent over whether the, the, the woke will be put away.

00:51:01.380 I feel like Biden, uh, you know, celebrating the transgender day of visibility instead of

00:51:07.780 Easter probably should seal that.

00:51:10.360 I feel, I feel like I'm owed several cigars at this point, but he keeps drawing it.

00:51:15.920 I'm, I'm trying to invoke the, the mercy rule.

00:51:18.020 I don't, I just don't want to see him keep getting hit like that.

00:51:20.460 Throw in the towel buddy.

00:51:21.760 You know, it's okay that, you know, we all, we all make a bad prediction.

00:51:25.260 Everyone's I'll just, you know, don't just take the L, you know, but, but he, he insists

00:51:29.360 that things are going to turn around for him, uh, you know, in the next year.

00:51:32.780 So we will see.

00:51:34.500 Uh, but yeah, I, I feel, I feel pretty good about that prediction.

00:51:38.360 Cooper Weirder says, uh, men defending women sounds fascist to me guys.

00:51:42.600 I mean, that, that literally is the, been the assertion for a long time, right?

00:51:46.780 That, that, you know, being willing to protect, uh, you know, someone vulnerable is that, that

00:51:53.620 is the, the core of fascist at this point.

00:51:56.020 Why wouldn't people expect that kind of accusation?

00:51:58.780 Let's see.

00:52:01.200 We've got Andrew Torba here says Christ is King.

00:52:03.440 Absolutely, man.

00:52:04.320 Every time.

00:52:05.520 Don't let anyone scare you away from the truth.

00:52:08.040 All right.

00:52:08.840 Cooper Willow says, uh, well, uh, MGTOW guys to say that that's true. 0.96

00:52:14.420 They do, you know, that's, that is very interesting that there's this reflection.

00:52:19.380 You know, we made this joke before we got on that, um, there, there was, uh, there, there

00:52:24.020 were women posting about how these attacks in New York were secretly incel coordinated,

00:52:29.000 you know, attacks on 4chan instead of just the obvious case of what was happening in

00:52:33.460 New York.

00:52:33.760 But there is this, there is this, um, weird mirror image of kind of the incel and the

00:52:39.100 radical feminist, right? 0.99

00:52:40.320 They're, they're, they're two people who, uh, want to blame their entirety of, of the

00:52:45.580 modern world on, on the opposite sex.

00:52:47.880 Again, turning, turning the opposite sex into a political opponent instead of understanding 0.99

00:52:52.440 that these are, these are people that can and must coexist, uh, for things to flourish.

00:52:57.520 And it's weird that, uh, the internet kind of provides us the, these kind of, uh, insulated

00:53:03.860 communities where these ideas can flourish, where they're in the real, where in the real

00:53:07.980 world, like you would just have to figure out how to get along, you know, I guess.

00:53:11.460 Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:53:13.600 Yeah.

00:53:13.900 And it's like you said before, like, um, they've, they've been turned into two political groups

00:53:20.120 opposed to each other.

00:53:21.940 And like, if you have that, your civilization civilization is done, right?

00:53:26.260 You, you're, you're not going to have marriage and I can have children. 0.83

00:53:28.700 You're, you're, you're, you're, it's over.

00:53:30.680 Um, and so, yeah, hopefully, hopefully like the woke does get put away and, and, uh, men 0.99

00:53:38.620 and women can go back to coexisting and having a good lives together. 1.00

00:53:42.300 Like, to be clear, I think at some point it collapses.

00:53:45.500 It's like my point is my, my point of this bed is not that it's there in perpetuity, like

00:53:50.400 that, which cannot go on forever, will not go on forever.

00:53:53.440 Uh, it is, it is wholly unnatural and it will collapse, but it, but it will not be because

00:53:58.520 our, uh, you know, Nima's point is that our elites are ultimately interested in power.

00:54:03.840 And so they'll turn things around because they, they're competent enough to realize that

00:54:07.940 continuing to run this disastrous strategy will lose.

00:54:10.820 I only know this because I know too many of these people, uh, you know, I've stared

00:54:15.680 to, and because I'm a true believer, you know, as, as, as followers of a religion, uh, you

00:54:20.440 know, the, the true religion, we, we under, we know religious fervor when we see it and

00:54:25.000 we're like, yeah, no, those are not people who are backing down.

00:54:27.900 Uh, yeah, that they, they believe in us in a very real way.

00:54:31.180 Yeah.

00:54:31.960 Uh, Florida Henry here says, uh, this comes directly from public school and started back in

00:54:36.780 the eighties or sooner.

00:54:37.660 It seems to be the common denominator of many of our problems.

00:54:41.200 Well, I mean, I think the public school does play a large part in this.

00:54:44.620 Of course, uh, the state, uh, having kind of this monopoly on education and basically this,

00:54:51.020 uh, this child daycare center that, uh, gets to distribute, you know, acts as, as an ideological

00:54:56.460 distribution center, uh, for kind of the state religion means whatever they take up is going

00:55:01.220 to be a big problem.

00:55:02.940 Um, and if you want to watch my episode with Mary Harrington, she makes a really good point

00:55:06.540 about the institutionalized care of children and what that does to their ability, uh, to

00:55:11.900 kind of develop the fact that every interaction is done through an intermediary means that

00:55:17.180 anytime someone bumps, you know, into something or gets into a fight or something, it becomes

00:55:21.460 this therapeutic action that they have to go through rather where if it was parents, it 0.99

00:55:25.720 would be like, okay, well, you know, don't say stupid stuff to your friend, learn how to 0.98

00:55:29.800 throw a better right hook, you know, like this would be the, this would get the advice 0.99

00:55:33.480 you would get.

00:55:33.940 And that has a very different impact.

00:55:36.140 So I think you're right that this does, uh, involve the public school, though.

00:55:40.060 I think it's, it's more in many ways, it's, it's not so much that the nefarious ideology

00:55:45.160 was piped through the public school, though, that did happen.

00:55:47.660 It's more of that the institutional, uh, setup for the public school actually creates inevitably

00:55:53.760 this scenario.

00:55:55.100 Yeah.

00:55:56.520 Let's see.

00:55:57.260 We've got, uh, Clayton here says HR departments are the corporate enforcement arm of the institutional

00:56:03.180 feminism. 1.00

00:56:04.000 Uh, typical male behavior is now a fireable offense.

00:56:08.120 Yes.

00:56:09.220 Yeah.

00:56:10.040 Yeah.

00:56:10.240 A hundred percent like that.

00:56:11.160 It's, and, and like, where did HR departments come from?

00:56:15.500 I mean, all of these things like where America wasn't created, right?

00:56:20.100 They didn't, they didn't come, you know, over on the Mayflower and have an HR lady there,

00:56:24.760 right?

00:56:25.200 The, this came out of, out of, uh, the civil rights act, right?

00:56:29.600 Um, that's ultimately where these things come from.

00:56:31.580 You had to have this massive, um, you know, superstructure in every large enough corporation

00:56:37.320 at scale to be able to comply with the civil rights act.

00:56:40.600 And it, um, ends up destroying the workplace.

00:56:44.560 And, and I mean, most people have worked in a place where there are a lot of women in, 1.00

00:56:50.100 in the workplace and the dynamic is completely different than when you're in a motel, an

00:56:55.160 all male work environment and you, you could feel it.

00:56:58.320 Uh, and it's, it's really difficult for men to operate in that, in that world.

00:57:03.640 And so, yeah, this is, it's, it's all, you know, all downstream of that.

00:57:07.360 I mean, we could, we could talk for another hour about like Christopher Caldwell's book.

00:57:10.920 Um, and I know you, I know you have before.

00:57:13.420 Yeah.

00:57:13.900 At length.

00:57:14.540 Yeah.

00:57:14.820 There is very, it's very much the case that what constitutes a hostile work environment

00:57:19.160 is anything that triggers the, the progressive political ideology.

00:57:23.760 And so, you know, every, everything about that law, everything that's instituted in that,

00:57:28.380 uh, and where did the authority to enforce that came come from exactly like you said,

00:57:32.720 it's the civil rights act.

00:57:33.900 That's what created.

00:57:35.160 And that's why, you know, I had this, you know, I kind of had this, this back and forth

00:57:39.260 with Chris Rufo at one point on Twitter.

00:57:40.740 He's like, well, we need to create like a night watchman civil rights, you know, bureau.

00:57:45.200 And it's like, I, I'm pretty sure that's like creating a night watchman, you know, Soviet, 0.93

00:57:50.100 you know, uh, centralized state.

00:57:52.060 Like that doesn't, that's not how it works.

00:57:54.220 Like you can't have a economic central planning just a little bit, right?

00:57:57.680 Like you gotta, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta have to get the whole thing root and branch

00:58:00.740 here.

00:58:01.040 If you want to get it at all.

00:58:02.420 Cooper weirdo says, uh, I don't get it.

00:58:04.100 You guys talk like these criminals don't care about the culture war or even politics, but

00:58:08.620 how can that be?

00:58:09.520 Yeah.

00:58:10.080 Once again, there's just this amazing obsession with like, if we can just reason our way through

00:58:15.220 this, like if you could just sit every criminal and, you know, deviant and misbehaving, you

00:58:19.920 know, but you know, child and just like work it all through with them.

00:58:23.660 Like that, that would be enough.

00:58:24.900 And that's exactly the attitude that has you said, why isn't everyone calling this out

00:58:29.340 as if that's an actual solution, uh, to violate your finger.

00:58:33.480 Yeah.

00:58:34.620 Yeah.

00:58:35.140 But has, but, but have they been through three more hours of HR lectures?

00:58:39.820 That's right.

00:58:40.800 Uh, paladin YYZ says, I'm not sure an, uh, ichthyologist, uh, but I, yeah, I'm sure I'm 0.99

00:58:50.220 doing that wrong, but I wonder if there is a species of fish that instead of taking the

00:58:54.280 bait, they ate the fishermen.

00:58:55.760 It would be interesting if there's such a method would reduce, uh, fishing.

00:59:00.460 Uh, Andrew, can you decode that one for me?

00:59:03.300 Well, yeah, I don't, I don't think there is a species of, I mean, unless, you know, unless

00:59:07.840 you're talking about sharks, right?

00:59:09.260 Uh, but, uh, no, yeah, yeah, I, I, um, I think that's, um, that's entirely true.

00:59:15.960 Like that, I mean, and, and, and, you know, the analogy of course is just with regard to

00:59:19.860 crime, right?

00:59:20.720 If, uh, if, uh, if, um, yeah, you had, um, a situation where, um, instead of preying on,

00:59:30.380 uh, innocent people, you know, the innocent people were able to fight back and cause major

00:59:37.500 pain to, to criminals, right?

00:59:40.480 The problem would, would solve itself very quickly, right?

00:59:43.260 If, if, uh, you had, you know, um, attorney generals and, and, um, and DAs and so forth

00:59:51.820 that, that gave tons of leniency to people defending themselves against criminals, the problem would

00:59:58.560 be over.

00:59:59.000 Like if, if it was, it's a, it's an, imagine if the situation was reversed sort of thing.

01:00:03.900 Imagine if the anarcho tyranny was the opposite of what it is, right?

01:00:07.180 You, you just have a normal society at that point.

01:00:09.920 Yeah.

01:00:10.080 Imagine if society was ordered correctly.

01:00:12.140 Yeah.

01:00:12.540 Yeah.

01:00:13.420 Whoa.

01:00:14.020 Crazy.

01:00:14.640 Right.

01:00:15.660 Quite the inversion for, for today to be sure.

01:00:18.500 Uh, forging and versus Andrew cannot escape me on any stream or even on vacation.

01:00:23.220 Yes.

01:00:24.400 Yeah.

01:00:24.800 I got to meet him, uh, a couple of weeks ago, uh, down in Tennessee.

01:00:27.980 So that was awesome guy.

01:00:30.120 Nice.

01:00:30.840 First vocacious heretic says, I, uh, Andrew, I live super close to you.

01:00:34.300 How do you communicate these days to people in our community that seem unaware of these

01:00:38.980 issues or even open to?

01:00:42.100 Yeah, I, I think, I mean, some of it is, um, you have to be a normie whisperer, right?

01:00:49.960 You have to be able to, uh, to be able to talk about this stuff in a way that they can

01:00:54.980 contextualize it, that they can conceptualize what's going on.

01:00:58.160 Like, I mean, even like when I, when I talked to buddies about the crime, like, yeah, the crime's

01:01:02.760 really bad up in the cities, huh?

01:01:04.740 And, and I'm like, yeah, I think we should just like lock up the criminals and not care

01:01:09.000 like, you know, whether they're white or black or purple or green.

01:01:13.080 And just if they commit crime, put them away.

01:01:15.460 And they're like, yeah, that's a good idea.

01:01:17.500 Like, I mean, just framing it in, in just simple, simple ways.

01:01:21.100 I mean, you brought up like Rufo and I think Rufo is a tremendous normie whisperer, right?

01:01:27.120 He's able to take, you know, the right-wing ideas and, and make them digestible to the

01:01:32.640 general public.

01:01:33.360 I mean, and of course, like Trump is an example of that as well.

01:01:36.920 Uh, and yeah, that's, that's, that's a lot of it is you, you can't freak out the normies,

01:01:42.940 right?

01:01:43.240 You, you have to be able to, to just, just be able to talk about, about things in a very

01:01:48.260 simple way that crime is bad.

01:01:50.960 We shouldn't have that.

01:01:51.960 I mean, and, and, and even like the, the feminism stuff like that, that's, I think much, much 0.99

01:01:56.180 more difficult because like in the book, I get into the fact that like women just weren't 1.00

01:02:00.440 in the workplace until the 1950s and sixties.

01:02:03.640 It was, it was not normal.

01:02:04.920 Like women, yeah, women had part-time jobs or they worked from home and, and yes, there 1.00

01:02:08.920 were women that worked in factories and things like that, but, um, but it wasn't widespread 1.00

01:02:13.220 and there's this massive shift.

01:02:14.720 And now we're in a place where, where every woman goes to college and goes, gets a job and 1.00

01:02:19.180 has a career and things like that.

01:02:20.600 And so you can't, you can't like attack people and be like, you're doing it wrong.

01:02:24.160 You're a bad person.

01:02:24.920 If you're not a trad wife baking sourdough all day. 1.00

01:02:28.100 Um, but you see these people that these young women who are like on TikTok, you see these 0.94

01:02:32.500 TikTok videos all the time where they're like, I just, I shouldn't have gone to college.

01:02:36.600 I just want to be a mom and a wife.

01:02:38.880 And that's like a natural impulse.

01:02:40.480 And so you kind of want to draw that stuff out and, and, and, and you can't be like, ah,

01:02:45.040 you, you're a bad person. 0.78

01:02:46.300 You need to pay back your student loans and all this kind of stuff.

01:02:48.360 But you, you just have to say, yeah, our, our society is really messed up and it really

01:02:52.880 is awful that you're in this position where you can't just, um, be a mom and, and love

01:02:58.300 your kids and raise your kids.

01:02:59.520 Like you have to go have a career, like framing it in, in those ways, um, is I think way more

01:03:04.960 powerful.

01:03:05.380 Um, and, and way, way easier to, to understand and digest, um, rather than just going guns

01:03:12.940 blazing and freaking them out.

01:03:14.940 Yeah.

01:03:15.480 I, you know, I get asked sometimes I'll go on these shows and they'll be like, what's

01:03:19.080 your, what's your most controversial opinion?

01:03:21.260 What's the most controversial opinion you hold?

01:03:23.400 And, uh, I always have the same answer loaded.

01:03:25.740 Uh, you know, it's my most controversial, controversial opinion is that men and women have to figure 0.99

01:03:29.820 out how to live together.

01:03:30.720 Yeah, that really like left and right.

01:03:33.200 That is my most controversial opinion because there is a, an entire sphere and I get it,

01:03:38.160 but there's an entire sphere of people who just want vengeance.

01:03:40.940 They just want vengeance.

01:03:42.180 They think that they think that the other, you know, the other, uh, the other sex has

01:03:46.220 been the one that has destroyed their lives.

01:03:48.400 And if only they could exact revenge, uh, that then, then suddenly they would somehow be

01:03:52.620 made whole.

01:03:53.260 Like, nope, nope.

01:03:54.140 It turns out we actually need to have a society that is well-ordered and that means living,

01:03:58.680 you know, for the good of a family that is, you know, centered around, you know, but the,

01:04:03.260 the, the flourishing of both, not, not just the, you know, the, the punishment of one

01:04:08.320 for having, you know, transgressed you at some point or the other.

01:04:11.900 Let's see a Daedalus there with, uh, first Timothy two 12, uh, everybody can check your

01:04:16.680 scriptural references there.

01:04:17.900 Uh, monochrome hysteria says, Andrew, what is your opinion on the, uh, term Christ is King

01:04:24.100 when used by Christian nationalists?

01:04:25.480 It's generally a good thing I ask because, because to me it comes as a sloganeering and

01:04:31.320 insincere.

01:04:32.860 Yeah.

01:04:33.380 I mean, I've, I've talked about this in other places, um, a little bit and, you know, I think

01:04:39.800 you generally, yeah, it's a good thing.

01:04:41.600 Like even if people are saying it in an insincere way, right, I'm glad that it's out there.

01:04:46.140 Um, but at, at like the end of the day, I want people that actually believe it and live

01:04:51.400 it out to be saying it more than the people who don't really believe it and they're just

01:04:55.700 using it as an edgy thing.

01:04:57.740 Um, but then you see, like you see over the weekend or over this last week, um, that, that

01:05:03.340 a lot of the evangelical world has kind of glommed on to this point where it's like, no,

01:05:08.020 these guys don't believe it.

01:05:08.940 So they're just saying it and it's offensive and they're doing it on purpose.

01:05:11.700 And it's like, I don't really care that they are.

01:05:14.120 Um, and, and in fact, it's, it's actually a judgment on, on the evangelical world, right.

01:05:21.160 In, in being, uh, too deferential and, and being in purposely inoffensive that we're terrified

01:05:27.860 to assert ourselves.

01:05:29.500 Yeah.

01:05:29.900 And so the only people that do are the guys you really don't like saying Christ is King.

01:05:35.900 100%.

01:05:36.300 If we had been doing it, if we've been saying, Hey, Ben Shapiro, you should repent and, and,

01:05:41.480 and become a Christian and believe in Jesus because Christ is King, right.

01:05:44.800 If, if our evangelical leaders had been saying that rather than like going to daily wire things

01:05:49.840 and just, you know, kowtowing to him all the time because they want to go on his platform

01:05:53.300 or whatever, um, then, and, and just being, not like hating the guy or anything like that,

01:05:59.600 but just saying, you're not a Christian.

01:06:01.280 You should be Jesus Christ is King, repent and believe, right.

01:06:04.580 I mean, you read the Bible and this is, it was controversial then, right.

01:06:09.120 When, when, when Paul would go places, um, he was like riots would start and because,

01:06:15.420 uh, and he'd be dragged before the authorities because he's saying someone other than Caesar

01:06:19.060 is King and that's unlawful.

01:06:21.020 And so of course it's offensive.

01:06:22.860 It's an offensive term because people don't want to believe it.

01:06:26.160 And we've been so afraid of offending and stepping on any toes and doing anything assertive and

01:06:32.620 aggressive that now the only people that want to do it are, are the, the bad people.

01:06:38.120 Um, so that's, that's kind of, that's, that's, that's what I think about that.

01:06:42.120 Yeah. 0.97

01:06:42.740 It's just really, I, this, the amazing thing about this issue is it's so dumb because people 0.59

01:06:48.220 are, are so, they're so interested in, uh, I want to, I don't want to say virtue signaling 0.93

01:06:55.720 because I hate that term, but they're so interested in, uh, in kind of performatively dunking on

01:07:01.140 internet racists that they want to avoid, uh, something that's true about the King of

01:07:06.880 King and Lord of Lords.

01:07:08.040 Yeah.

01:07:08.520 That really, that's it.

01:07:09.600 That's at the end of the day.

01:07:10.380 Like the people who are doing this are like, it's more important for me to look better than

01:07:14.820 Nick Fuentes, who I'm not a fan of, uh, but it's more important for me to look more,

01:07:19.640 really, morally superior to this guy than it is to just tell the truth about Christ.

01:07:24.900 Right.

01:07:25.360 And yeah, obviously like the, these statements should be made in love because the crisis

01:07:30.460 King is a statement of love.

01:07:31.940 It is, it is the most important thing that you can share with someone.

01:07:35.240 And, and, and that is a great way to show them how you care about them, that you care about

01:07:39.140 their salvation and that, that, that their acknowledgement of the Lordship of Christ.

01:07:42.440 And so that is the spirit in which it should be addressed and people throwing it around

01:07:46.260 otherwise are ill-advised, but that truth is way more important than dunking on internet

01:07:52.260 racists.

01:07:53.200 Sorry.

01:07:53.400 It just is.

01:07:54.380 Yeah.

01:07:54.540 Yeah.

01:07:54.960 Yeah.

01:07:55.200 And, and David French is out there giving me the, you know, giving the exact same speech

01:07:59.180 that you are now guys.

01:08:00.300 So I hope, I hope everybody gets a David French award.

01:08:02.740 I'm making them up.

01:08:03.520 I'm, I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, start handing these statues out, you know,

01:08:06.960 the, the, the David French ad to everybody.

01:08:09.660 Cause I, cause I predicted this a mile away.

01:08:11.960 It's like, yeah, we get it.

01:08:13.200 You're one of the good ones.

01:08:14.620 We understand it.

01:08:15.640 You're good.

01:08:15.880 Sorry.

01:08:16.520 Yeah.

01:08:16.880 But Christ is still king.

01:08:18.160 Sorry.

01:08:18.940 Yeah.

01:08:19.960 No, that's exactly it.

01:08:21.240 And you, like you see, like speaking of it, since you brought them up, uh, the David

01:08:25.580 French, uh, you know, you saw what, what he said about the trans day of visibility, like 0.79

01:08:31.040 all these people are so nasty and mean and, and horrible. 0.94

01:08:34.740 The reaction to it. 0.95

01:08:36.060 And it's like, your, your, your critique is of the people that are responding to this

01:08:41.920 abomination.

01:08:43.060 Right.

01:08:43.560 It's like, and it's the same frame.

01:08:45.400 It's the exact same thing.

01:08:46.280 It's like, I want to look good to the people that hate me.

01:08:48.600 I want them to think I'm a good person more than I'm willing to say something that might

01:08:53.040 offend them.

01:08:53.480 And look, I, I'm, I don't care about David French at this point.

01:08:56.780 He's made his decision, right?

01:08:58.220 He is what he is.

01:08:59.080 Yeah.

01:08:59.220 At this point, he's, it's between him and the Lord, but people who should know better

01:09:02.700 people who spend a lot of time making fun of people like David French are doing, are

01:09:06.940 now doing the David French.

01:09:08.300 Yeah.

01:09:08.900 Because they want to show that they're one of their, they're not as bad as they're not

01:09:13.560 as edgy at whatever.

01:09:15.400 Who cares?

01:09:15.920 Guys speak the truth.

01:09:17.320 If you have a problem with the way people are conducting themselves online, speak specifically

01:09:21.720 to their problem.

01:09:23.480 Not to, yeah.

01:09:24.680 Don't try to silence something that is true and important.

01:09:29.360 Lou Sassy says, clearly the main star of Contra Mundum, Christ is kidding.

01:09:34.820 You'll have to dig that up with CJ.

01:09:36.080 Thanks.

01:09:36.560 Thank you, Lou.

01:09:38.240 I'm now mediating inter-podcast rival.

01:09:41.080 That's right.

01:09:41.640 That's right.

01:09:42.860 Iowa and Slow says, a little too much optimism, men and everyone should be aware of things

01:09:48.920 that are probably going to get much worse.

01:09:50.160 Again, I cannot stress this enough, guys.

01:09:52.940 Look, I understand.

01:09:54.300 I understand there's a lot of issues.

01:09:56.240 Okay.

01:09:56.520 I get it.

01:09:57.180 I hear what you're saying.

01:09:58.600 But you got to get out of this frame of men versus women. 0.72

01:10:02.460 You just have to.

01:10:04.620 It's poisonous.

01:10:06.000 It's going to destroy your community.

01:10:07.940 It's going to destroy your life.

01:10:09.300 I understand the problems.

01:10:10.920 We have to address the problems in society.

01:10:13.040 I'm not saying close your eyes to this or turn away from this.

01:10:16.940 But you cannot turn the opposite sex into your political battlefield. 0.99

01:10:21.880 You simply can't.

01:10:22.660 Or you'll destroy what's left of your civilization.

01:10:25.120 And you'll certainly make sure that you can't build anything new and better out of what comes next.

01:10:31.200 Yeah.

01:10:31.320 I think his point, it might be, I don't know if you want to bring it up again.

01:10:35.700 I think he might be thinking about just the general everything going on, right?

01:10:43.180 That he's saying maybe we're being too optimistic.

01:10:44.460 Yeah.

01:10:44.580 Maybe he's just talking about the criminalization of the protection.

01:10:49.180 In that case, yeah.

01:10:49.980 In that case, that's true.

01:10:51.520 I should give him the credit there.

01:10:55.000 Yeah.

01:10:55.240 So low and slow.

01:10:56.380 I mean, I get it.

01:10:57.900 I don't want to pretend.

01:10:59.880 If you read the book, the first six chapters, everybody read them.

01:11:04.460 Yeah.

01:11:04.820 Anyway.

01:11:05.340 Yeah.

01:11:05.820 Yeah.

01:11:06.240 We love Iowa too.

01:11:07.600 Yeah.

01:11:08.140 But right.

01:11:10.240 The first six chapters, people, when they would just read that, they're like,

01:11:12.680 Oh, this is so depressing.

01:11:13.740 This is, you know, what are we going to do?

01:11:15.360 And I was always afraid of that.

01:11:16.620 Like they'd read it and be like, Oh, it's all over.

01:11:18.840 It's all so bad.

01:11:20.360 And I, I do not want people to just be blackpilled and think that there's no possibility of victory

01:11:26.820 whatsoever because things, things can return to normal.

01:11:31.100 Like, yes, it is this Herculean task that is before us, right?

01:11:35.140 It is going to be really hard.

01:11:37.060 We're going to go through a lot of stuff and it is.

01:11:39.020 Yeah.

01:11:39.240 I think he's right.

01:11:39.940 It is going to get worse before it gets better.

01:11:42.260 Absolutely.

01:11:43.000 But if the possibility of things getting better, even if it's a slim chance, um, we,

01:11:48.780 if we don't fight for it and we don't have, have that frame that I think it's going to

01:11:52.760 get better, I'm going to be optimistic.

01:11:54.580 Uh, even as I'm aware of, of the reality of everything all around me, um, then like,

01:12:02.120 what are we even doing?

01:12:03.540 Right.

01:12:03.960 What are we even doing?

01:12:04.620 It's all over.

01:12:05.540 Uh, no, like I, I, I do not want people to blackpill ever, ever.

01:12:09.620 Absolutely.

01:12:09.900 Agreed.

01:12:11.400 All right, guys.

01:12:12.100 Well, like I said, make sure that you're checking out all of Andrew's stuff.

01:12:15.700 And of course, if it's your first time on this channel, make sure that you go ahead

01:12:18.880 and subscribe.

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01:12:36.080 It really helps with the algorithm magic.

01:12:38.000 If you'd like to go ahead and pre-order my book, the total state, you can do so on Amazon

01:12:42.860 and I will actually be on Tim cast this Thursday.

01:12:46.320 So if you want to go ahead and check that out, make sure that you tune in on Thursday.

01:12:51.020 All right, guys.

01:12:51.980 Great scene, everyone.

01:12:52.880 And as always, I'll talk to you next time.

01:12:54.860 Bye.

01:12:55.460 Bye.

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01:12:56.360 Bye.

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The Auron MacIntyre Show - April 01, 2024

Criminalizing Masculinity ｜ Guest： Andrew Isker ｜ 4⧸1⧸24

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