Did the FBI Lie About Rising Crime？ ｜ Guest： J. Burden ｜ 10⧸18⧸24
Episode Stats
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Summary
Jay Burden joins me on the show to talk about why crime is actually going down in the United States. He talks about the FBI making a mistake in their crime statistics, and why it matters to the American people.
Transcript
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Joining me today to talk about our topic is one of my favorite guests, Jay Burden.
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He's got a great interview show, and it's on YouTube and podcast platforms.
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Yeah, thank you so much for having me on, Aura.
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And I know it's been a while since we've spoken, but I always look forward to coming on your show
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Well, I mean, you've broken out all over the place.
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You've gotten a little too big for the Oren McIntyre show at this point.
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But in all seriousness, Oren, I really do enjoy your show.
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I'm a regular listener, and so it's fun to call it.
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Well, today we are talking about crime, specifically crime statistics.
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There was a small snafu in the reporting of crime statistics recently that kind of came up.
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Obviously, the FBI famously has their crimes report that comes out every year, letting people
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know where we're at in a country, who's committing crimes, where it's being committed, what kind
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And the crime report from 2022 came out in 2023 in September.
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And at that point, it revealed that crime had gone down in the United States by about 2%.
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And this was very suspicious for anyone who has, you know, like eyeballs, because it seemed
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to many of us that actually crime had gone up quite a bit.
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It was very evident that, you know, not, yeah, you only have your anecdotal evidence.
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But, you know, it's not just a social media feed.
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You can walk around your neighborhoods and realize they feel less safe.
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Fewer people are willing to let their kids go out, ride their bikes, these kind of things.
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You know, women are less likely to go out at night.
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And so that statistic really clashed with reality.
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But they kept repeating it over and over again.
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You even had government officials like Pete Buttigieg come out and say, crime is down.
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And even to the point where we had these debates where Kamala Harris and Donald Trump are debating
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and the moderators would jump in and fact check and tell Donald Trump, oh, no, crime is actually
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Well, after the debates and after early voting had already started, it turns out that like,
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you know, a year later at this point, over a year later, the FBI made a mistake, a whoopsie.
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And that's a pretty huge statistical error to say actually crime went down a minor amount
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to actually crime went up a substantial amount.
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And we just happened to calculate it incorrectly.
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And we just happened to not fix that error until, you know, all of the political convenience
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of spreading the idea that crime had gone down had kind of been spent.
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And so I think a lot of people were raising quite the eyebrow because this wasn't even
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done as some kind of correction where they announced, oh, we made a big mistake.
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It was only picked up later on by people after the fact.
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They didn't even bother to put out some kind of press release saying, whoops, I guess we
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You've seen a similar story with economic data, right?
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How many jobs are being created, which is just magically, and it really is, I mean, from
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a statistical perspective, improbable that they would keep making wrong guesses by roughly
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the same amount month over month over month, and then later have to go back and correct
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This isn't really, at this point, serious data, right?
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It's very clear that people have their fingerprints or their fingers inside of it, and they're
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And the thing that it brings to my mind, right, is the concept of Soviet science, right?
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Like if I describe something to you as, well, is he a biologist?
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And I said, well, he was a Soviet biologist, right?
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The implication, yes, he may have been, but he was part of a political system with political
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Effectively, we're seeing the exact same thing, right?
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America is fast becoming a banana republic, right?
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Where the sort of numbers you see the government produce have less and less of any relation
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It's like something you would see in the Soviet Union, right?
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Now, you don't have one, and no one you know has one, but we make lots of them.
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And what we've seen with both unemployment and now with crime is very much that, right?
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There needed to be proof for the idea that crime went down.
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And so that proof was created, regardless of anything actually done.
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And what's especially interesting is that even within that, the actual way the FBI gathers
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And that's something that you might know, Aaron, but they won't tell you that, right?
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They will never inform you that all of a sudden we changed what size ruler we're using.
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You know, again, it's another way to manipulate the outcomes of these procedures.
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Yeah, and in a society that has this much scale, the collection of data is supposed to give
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And that's really important because we have moved beyond the size of a civilization that
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any one person or group of people can really grasp.
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You know, we're well beyond Dunbar's number when it comes to the people we interact with.
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We rely heavily on the institutions in our society to kind of give us feedback on how the
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Now, we're both Thomas Carlyle fans, so we know the danger of this.
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You know, the condition of England question cannot be answered on spreadsheets or ultimately
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And this is a really good example of why this way of understanding the world is very dangerous,
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because as you point out, you know, the regime has a narrative and whether that narrative
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And the only way we prove narratives now, the only acceptable epistemological basis is this
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scientific, you know, accumulation of statistical information that is supposed to be the way in
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which we verify our reality, even though we can't actually observe it in a very real sense
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And so as someone who worked in the public education system for a long time, I'm extremely
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aware of the degree to which this data gets baked or gets cooked, even just at the ground
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I'm not even talking about what happens in Washington, D.C. and those bureaus, but what happens
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just in the individual units of data collection.
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When I worked in schools, we were constantly doctoring grades.
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We were redefining what it meant to be proficient in things, to be to acceptable thresholds in
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order to get the data, to massage the data significantly and produce the desired outcomes.
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And again, this is just at like the school and district level, not at the Department of
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The same thing is true when it comes to the FBI.
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As you point out, the way that they collect data has changed.
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Yes, many large cities at this point aren't even participating in the data collection process
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But when you look at a large number of cities, they are also going through this process where
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they are losing police officers and they are not able to respond to many incidents.
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So unless it's an active violent crime, unless you are literally being stabbed at the moment,
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they don't send officers out to take reports in many cases.
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So unless you are sitting in line for hours at the police station after the fact, making
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sure that your case is logged, then the data just doesn't appear.
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So it's not just a malicious changing of the data at the federal level, though I believe there's
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plenty of evidence to say that's exactly happening, but it's also a failure that cascades all the
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way down the chain of responsibility to local areas that are just not putting the resources
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towards accurately recording crime data, because that would reveal a trend they don't want
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And I think a lot of conservatives have a have a problem, right, where they look at the the stated
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purpose of an institution as the effective purpose of the institution.
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In an ideal world, the purpose of the police would be to stop crime, right?
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That's what they that's why we pay them, right?
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But the problem is that's not the case current.
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And I'm not making, you know, any sort of implication about a specific officer or anything
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But, you know, when we look at law enforcement in general, right, federal level law enforcement,
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it very clearly does not exist to make you safer, right?
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So in this case, the FBI, right, federal law enforcement, what do they do?
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Are they telling us what we actually need to know, which is, hey, crime is up, like we need
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Or are they kneeling to their real masters, right, the political elite and saying, no,
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And similarly, right, we see this this diversion, right, between the stated purpose and what,
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And, you know, not to get too chin stroking here, but I think that that classical bit of
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wisdom by their fruits, you shall know them, right?
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And again, like I said, that's in no way intended to impugn the honor of any individual
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There are many police officers who do a great job.
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But when we're talking systemically, when we're looking this as at the broadest possible
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level, we can identify that there is a problem.
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And that problem is not being addressed because it's politically inconvenient.
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Yeah, I think it's also important to be able to take a look at what might be some or
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So let me bring this up real quick, because John Lott, who is somebody who's done a lot
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of great work on, of course, crime statistics, he's famous for his advocacy when it comes
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to, you know, gun ownership and what the truth about gun ownership is.
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But he wrote a fantastic article for Real Clear Politics explaining this phenomenon.
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And one of the things that he pointed out was how broken the FBI's collection of statistics
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And so he suggested that a much better indicator that has been going on for a long time, one
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that has been available to us, is the National Crime Victimization Survey.
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And the difference between this and the FBI's collection method is that the FBI is ultimately
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aggregating statistics that have been brought in by the individual departments and, you know,
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So whatever the official numbers are being brought in by different sheriff's offices and, you
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know, investigators and all these different things, that is then being aggregated into
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But again, if the local level breaks down, if the reporting at the local level breaks down,
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even if there isn't a malicious intent at the top, which I absolutely believe there is,
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you're still going to get heavily skewed statistics.
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And so if we take a look at this crime report, this one is done differently.
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Rather than taking the aggregated data across all these local reporters, what it does is
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it takes a couple hundred people and surveys them every year.
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And when it does that, it comes up with very different statistics because it's not just taking
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the officially reported crime, but it's taking people who perhaps did not go out and report
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that crime, did not actually file an official police report or have that report properly
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logged through them and through the department and into the FBI.
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But instead, it is surveying the entirety of that group and saying, have you experienced
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And so for the 2020 data set, which is the same that the FBI was pulling from, we see instead
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of a 4.5 increase in violent crime, which is what they reported after they stealth adjusted
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it after the debates and after voting started, instead of 4.5%, we actually see a jaw dropping
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And if we stretch that out, not just for that one year, but the entirety of the Biden-Harris
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administration, we actually see a staggering 55.4% increase in crime.
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You can look at the graph that's been assembled here from that data, and you can see that the
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Trump numbers are in orange and they go down on everything except rape.
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When we look at the Harris and Biden data, we see 55% total crime over that time, 42% in
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rape, 63% in robbery, 55% in aggravated assault.
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Now this seems really high, but if you look and, you know, you, you feel like which of these,
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you know, data is collections of data actually feels like it accurately represents the amount
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of crime that we are seeing in our neighborhoods around us, these kinds of things, this feels far
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Um, ultimately, you know, though, again, either way, we're still trying to trust these statistics
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that are being, uh, that are being brought together by organizations that we ultimately
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And again, to me, it all comes back down to that.
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You know, look like it's very possible for, to be deceived, right?
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You could just live in a rough area, but the fact that, and I'm sure other people share
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That I have friends and contacts all across the U S and everyone is reporting the same
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It's, you know, what Sam Francis would refer to as a narco tyranny, where there's the feeling
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that, you know, if I, as a, as a normal person steps out of line, I'm very likely to be dealt
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with harshly, but, you know, it, for instance, in the case of, you know, auto theft, you know,
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any one of these, these crimes or, you know, what we're seeing in Chicago with, with gangland
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shootings being charged as mutual combat, right.
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Like they, like two guys agreed to a bar fight is that for the, for the criminal underclass
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The people who commit the vast majority of these violent crimes, the state is not interested
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It is simply not a problem for them in the same way that it's a problem for the people
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And so ultimately we see, like you said that, you know, they're, they're leaving the concerns
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They don't care how crime is actually manifesting itself in your neighborhood.
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And then it, you know, they kind of post this lackadaisical attitude as if it's a triumph.
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They say, oh, well, we can't be bothered to respond to your calls anymore.
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I have several friends just again, anecdotally in my personal life who have had property crimes
00:17:09.960
And even though we have relatively good law enforcement comparatively to the rest of the
00:17:13.860
country in my area, they still get basically, well, there's just no way we're actually going
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You know, yeah, you may have lost thousands of dollars in property, but we, we're just
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not going to, you know, bother to even send a police officer out to check that out or record
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And so, you know, we get this, this completely indifferent attitude to the suffering of the
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average person, the condition in which most Americans are actually living.
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Well, we couldn't be bothered to report the crimes against you.
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So look, it's, we, we ended up having less crime.
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Isn't, isn't Kamala Harris doing a fantastic job?
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You know, we, we couldn't send an officer out to check out the fact that you were devastated
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And now we, you know, we're going to count that as some kind of positive achievement that
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we manifested in, you know, in the lives of the people.
00:18:04.520
And again, when you, when you are abstracting this data across so many different, uh, you know,
00:18:11.100
regions of the country, people have to trust it to some degree in order to, uh, have an accurate
00:18:18.820
And, and this is really ultimately what our leaders are terrified of when we hear about
00:18:23.940
misinformation and disinformation and Trump and the Republicans attacking science and
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What they really mean is that these people are just pointing out what is obvious so that
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all of these institutions, and you already pointed out Bureau of labor statistics over,
00:18:39.140
over reporting, uh, you know, the number of jobs by 800,000, you know, on your way to a
00:18:45.660
million jobs that they functionally lied about just to cook their statistics.
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When we have the department of health, obviously cooking everything when it came to the pandemic,
00:18:54.660
when we have the, uh, you know, our crime reports completely skewed, people are increasingly
00:19:00.180
recognizing that at every domain, our institutions are failing.
00:19:04.300
And this means that the kind of unified perception of the state of the nation that the regime relied
00:19:11.780
on in order to kind of use this as a fulcrum to create the politics that they wanted, that
00:19:18.120
And they are recognized this and they are panicking in this, right?
00:19:20.980
Because if they no longer have this unified understanding of we produce the data, you believe
00:19:26.120
the data, and then we act on that data and that justifies our political action, then they
00:19:31.420
end up in a situation where there's just this completely fractured reality.
00:19:36.040
And again, this is, this is, you know, John Kerry just complained about this at a WEF summit
00:19:41.440
The first amendment makes it really hard for us to chase down all of these, uh, places
00:19:45.640
that had an information we don't like and stamp them out.
00:19:48.140
He literally said, beat, you know, beat them down with a hammer, you know?
00:19:51.020
And, and so, uh, you know, they are fully aware of the crisis though.
00:19:55.400
They are blaming the people who are accurately reporting the experiences they have rather than saying,
00:20:00.960
well, maybe we shouldn't manipulate things so badly.
00:20:03.900
And that's really the most terrifying thing is rather than having any level of introspection,
00:20:08.520
you know, this is, this is what like our, our mutual friend, academic agent would say
00:20:13.140
is like, eventually power will correct this, right?
00:20:15.540
Like eventually power will look at this and say, okay, our manipulation of these things
00:20:20.860
Our, our, uh, continued efforts at manipulating reality are becoming too apparent.
00:20:26.560
And if we want to retain some level of credibility, if we want to be able to hold power through
00:20:31.600
our previous political formula, then we have to dial this back.
00:20:38.780
That's how we got into power, but we have to, we have to be a little more cautious.
00:20:43.360
We have to use a little more finesse, a little more prudence in the way in which we deploy
00:20:48.580
We can't just throw it out and constantly completely contradict reality and expect people
00:20:55.200
But instead they have only accelerated into leaned into this process, which is why I'm pretty sure
00:21:00.320
AA is going to owe me a cigar, but it's also why I'm pretty sure that we are going to have
00:21:04.360
a more serious problem when it comes to social cohesion in the United States, because I don't
00:21:08.440
see these people making any corrections to their strategy.
00:21:11.840
Well, that actually brings up a very important question, right?
00:21:15.520
Which is basically, you know, what is the, is the correct way to rule?
00:21:22.140
Because, you know, look, we're all hardened political realists here.
00:21:24.920
We realize that at least on earth, actually in heaven as well, you're never going to get
00:21:37.220
That there are better and worse people to be in charge, better and worse systems.
00:21:42.440
Well, at a very, very basic level, I'm talking Madlow's hierarchy of needs, right?
00:21:48.540
The monopoly on violence, if you will, basically, can you keep your people safe?
00:21:53.060
So forgive me about a digression on feudalism, right?
00:22:00.980
There were marauding bands of barbarians running around.
00:22:04.360
And everyone kind of looked to themselves and said, all right, I guess you're really good
00:22:12.980
But from that, right, that pure need from security, a society arose, right?
00:22:17.080
That guy eventually became, you know, kind of a warlord, then a baron, then a duke, and
00:22:20.960
And it became, right, a complicated nation state, right?
00:22:24.560
From that very, very simple monopoly on violence, right?
00:22:29.440
And so right now, we're in a situation where we are, allegedly, the most powerful country
00:22:35.780
The massive military, you know, better technology than anyone.
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00:23:13.400
A problem that the Victorians managed to solve, you know?
00:23:17.300
Well, and the Atlantic actually just had a headline out.
00:23:20.620
Like, the shoplifting crisis is real, which is hilarious because they've been lying about
00:23:31.280
Actually, of course, it was happening the whole time.
00:23:35.100
But not only do they finally admit it, but then their follow-up is, no one knows how
00:23:41.740
But of course, as you point out, the Victorians knew how to solve it.
00:23:49.640
Bukele even put, you know, his report was, I know, you know, because he has recently
00:23:54.480
demonstrated exactly how you solve this problem.
00:24:05.040
We just need to apply the thing that everyone knows works.
00:24:08.360
But we have literally labeled that which maintains socialism racist and fascist.
00:24:14.020
And it's like, okay, how long can you play that stupid game before you guys just win the
00:24:19.820
Like, how long can you label basic social maintenance, the basic, you know, keeping down
00:24:26.760
How long can you label that racist and fascist before someone's like, you know what?
00:24:29.840
I would actually just prefer my stuff not get stolen and I not get stabbed.
00:24:34.040
So maybe if you're that's, if that's the only thing you're going to label as capable of
00:24:38.100
maintaining civil, civil order, then maybe that doesn't sound so bad.
00:24:44.380
And, and really that question of, are you willing to, to do violence, right?
00:24:49.560
Is the fundamental question of sovereignty, right?
00:24:52.120
When we talk about something like the will to power, that's what we're saying.
00:24:56.260
And I'm not talking on an individual level, I'm talking on the level of nations, but fundamentally
00:25:00.540
the question of who is in charge is, well, who's willing to fight for it, right?
00:25:05.320
Because I mean, you see when two countries get into a disagreement, if it, you know, goes
00:25:12.340
Where they basically said like, you'll take it off my cold dead hands, right?
00:25:17.460
But fundamentally that is the same desire as, as George Sorrell would say, that enables
00:25:22.200
the state to say, no, you're not allowed to do that.
00:25:25.080
You go straight to jail or in a medieval context, maybe you go somewhere else.
00:25:30.280
The idea is that that ability, that will to say, no, there is order here is the same will
00:25:40.480
That is again, I'm going to say it again and again, the monopoly on violence, right?
00:25:47.320
And so we're in a situation, right, where our elites are both from one perspective, frantically
00:25:57.540
They want to be in charge, but they don't want to rule, right?
00:26:00.200
They don't want to accept the responsibility for producing order.
00:26:05.480
And so to me, it's, it seems very much like, you know, we, we have people in charge, but we
00:26:13.200
We don't have someone who is saying like Bukele, I am in charge.
00:26:20.140
I mean, look, like I'm not the, you know, I'm not going to just sit here and turn this
00:26:26.940
into a digression about, you know, the American political election, but does literally anyone,
00:26:32.360
especially now think Joe Biden is in charge, right?
00:26:35.580
Like very clearly he's not, but who is, that's a very difficult question to ask.
00:26:41.040
And when you're in a situation where you have mass disorder, if you could say, well, he's
00:26:45.440
in charge and he's not producing order, well, then it's very clear who's responsible, who's
00:26:51.900
Like if, if El Salvador became what El Salvador was 10 years ago, well, very clearly that's
00:26:59.920
But in this situation, right, where we do have, whether you want to call it a deep state
00:27:03.020
and entrenched bureaucracy is kind of like diffuse network of power.
00:27:07.180
It's very difficult to say whose fault this is.
00:27:11.500
And so you have, again, like a situation where there is no one who is saying, you know, there
00:27:21.420
Well, I want to transition to a discussion on body cams because there are some shocking
00:27:26.280
batting cam footage that came out the last few weeks or in the last week, uh, and that
00:27:33.340
And it's created quite a bit of controversy, certainly dovetails nicely into our discussion
00:27:38.540
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So today we're also going to talk about this shooting, officer involved shooting of Sidney
00:28:54.080
Now, this is another one of those, you know, I can't believe that, you know, a black woman
00:29:10.300
I'm pretty sure because that's going to that's going to violate some of their terms of service.
00:29:14.540
Uh, but I brought up the article here just so you could see some of the stills really
00:29:20.340
Uh, but, uh, basically what happened is there was a wellness check called in, uh, on this
00:29:26.340
Now, the officer who responded is a guy named Peter Liu.
00:29:30.840
He had been through the training, uh, you know, to respond to mental health situations.
00:29:35.980
So a lot of people say, oh, well, you know, if they just sent a mental health, you know,
00:29:40.880
Uh, garbage, of course, but, you know, but, but anyway, he, he had been through the training
00:29:46.600
And when he knocked on the door, uh, this woman who herself, uh, used to be a, a college
00:29:53.040
In fact, her death was mourned by the Georgetown women's basketball team.
00:29:56.740
There's a post online, you know, saying, oh, we can't believe we've lost her.
00:30:02.180
Well, it turns out that once we look at the body cam footage of this woman being shot in
00:30:06.940
reality, what happens is that the police officer knocks on the door and she,
00:30:16.000
Now the officer, the entire time is saying, backup, backup, stop.
00:30:23.000
Uh, you know, he makes it very clear that she needs to stop what she's doing.
00:30:26.720
He backs up before he's not shooting immediately.
00:30:29.440
Even though she's wielding the knife, she's lunging towards him.
00:30:32.080
He, he shows incredible restraint, but eventually she gets close enough to actually, you know,
00:30:37.740
here's her emerging from the door with the knife.
00:30:40.920
Uh, she's coming down the hallway again with the knife.
00:30:43.340
Eventually she gets close enough to actually cut the man.
00:30:45.820
As you can see here, multiple times on the face in the body cam footage, you can literally
00:30:49.780
see the blood dripping off of the man's face across his body cam as he's trying to call
00:30:56.500
But of course, unfortunately he is forced to stop this woman.
00:31:00.140
Uh, and, and the, the thing that is, there's two things that are amazing about this first,
00:31:05.660
uh, of course the response was this man should have done something else.
00:31:10.440
There should have been some other response, even once the body cam footage came out.
00:31:14.740
Uh, but on top of this, you know, we were the, the big push by criminal justice, justice
00:31:21.200
reform, uh, proponents was that we need body cams.
00:31:25.660
Cause this is going to reveal how racist, you know, cops are, how violent they are.
00:31:30.000
This is going to show us the evidence that actually, uh, the, the police officers are
00:31:34.320
constantly biased against, uh, you know, people of color, this kind of thing.
00:31:39.820
BLM, these kinds of organizations were huge proponents of this.
00:31:42.960
And what has happened in most cases is actually body cam footage has shown us that, you know,
00:31:48.640
police are relatively reasonable in these scenarios.
00:31:51.120
Now I'd like to make it clear before we dive into this, that I don't think either of us,
00:31:56.420
while both of us respect, uh, you know, honest officers, I have a particular respect,
00:32:00.920
uh, someone who grew up in military bases and around people who are constantly in harm's way.
00:32:05.460
I have a particular respect for those willing to, uh, you know, put themselves in harm's way,
00:32:09.740
uh, to deploy violence when necessary to protect their fellow citizens.
00:32:13.460
But both of us also recognize that in many scenarios, especially given the current political
00:32:18.720
climate, uh, police are, you know, that we're, we're not back the blue in all situations.
00:32:23.580
Police are willing to follow, especially just think about the pandemic, the, the orders that
00:32:28.380
police were willing to follow in the situations.
00:32:30.660
It's not that police are just, you know, the, these amazing guardians that are beyond reproach.
00:32:37.420
And I think evidence will show this, that police are, you know, brutalizing people in particular
00:32:43.440
But what we have seen from these body body cam footages over and over again, is that actually
00:32:50.060
in many scenarios, the police are being as restrained as possible.
00:32:54.020
And it shows us kind of the impossible situation that many of these officers are placed in like
00:32:59.860
So it was just amazing because everyone thought that the body cam footage would show us all
00:33:07.900
In reality, it shows us stuff like this, you know, a crazed woman wielding a knife.
00:33:13.480
Desperately slashing an officer who's begging with her to stop.
00:33:17.100
And only after he takes severe physical injury to himself, does he actually deploy lethal force?
00:33:25.160
The whole thing gets labeled as some kind of, you know, a new, new, uh, lynching in the,
00:33:33.380
Well, and this goes, this is one of the things we can file under the heading of, uh, it literally
00:33:39.740
And not to say that it doesn't matter for us, but I'm saying that from the progressive
00:33:54.040
Both people involved in it are minorities, right?
00:33:56.380
There's, there's no white person around to be, you know, the, the source of the white supremacy
00:34:00.620
Uh, he knocked on the door respectfully and they had an interaction over and over again.
00:34:06.260
He tries to tell her to put down the knife, stop doing what you're doing.
00:34:09.680
She tried to stab him in the head, which is not like that.
00:34:17.920
It's the most explicit justified case of self-defense.
00:34:21.560
But again, that doesn't matter because they don't really care.
00:34:27.060
What they want to use it as, is a unit of political currency.
00:34:33.380
It goes back to what we were saying about crime earlier, that crime does matter for people
00:34:37.980
If you're this woman's neighbor, you want her to be okay, but you want her to be dealt with,
00:34:42.980
You don't want to live around a knife wielding psychopath, right?
00:34:46.660
It's almost so obvious you'd barely have to say it.
00:34:49.600
And likewise, like this woman should not be in the type of situation where she is endangering
00:34:57.940
But within the bounded rationality of the situation, the officer acted as he was supposed
00:35:05.960
And it was cheaply turned into a token to, you know, advance a political agenda as we've
00:35:13.280
Yeah, it really is the, the life that you're asking people to live, right?
00:35:21.420
The fact that someone in my area, I know they're unwell.
00:35:28.240
And if I call the police on this person, I could be the bad guy.
00:35:33.960
If the police responds and something terrible happens, then the police, the police officer
00:35:44.820
Everyone else is being blamed, except the people perpetrating the crime, the people creating
00:35:48.780
a situation in which everyone is feeling unsafe.
00:35:51.640
And so fewer and fewer people report the crimes, as we've already pointed out when it came to
00:35:57.120
And more and more people are forced to live in this constant dread of people that they
00:36:05.320
They don't want to, you know, they don't want, uh, you know, to, uh, allow their wives
00:36:10.540
to go places because they are scared that there's just no safety.
00:36:14.660
There's the, the, the, the racial quant, uh, the racial calculation is more important to
00:36:21.840
society than the actual safety of the people involved.
00:36:24.340
We can go right to Daniel Penny in, in New York.
00:36:27.480
And the fact that he is facing murder charges, uh, over the fact that he defended people
00:36:32.920
from a crazed guy who's threatening to harm them.
00:36:35.880
When that is how you treat people, that is how you create the men without chess.
00:36:42.320
This is how you create the anarcho tyranny because people are terrified to, uh, you know,
00:36:48.020
they, they know that law enforcement is not going to step up and protect them in many
00:36:51.020
situations because, you know, that I'm sure that officer is now facing some kind of, uh,
00:36:56.820
you know, uh, scrutiny just due to this act before the body camera footage came out.
00:37:01.120
But on top of that, they can't take any self-defense action because we see what happens to a guy
00:37:06.540
And so we create a society in which women are unsafe, children are unsafe.
00:37:11.320
And the hilarious thing is then like a lot of, you know, for instance, single women who
00:37:19.860
Rather than recognizing actually, no, you're unsafe because you've cowed men and made it
00:37:26.720
You've created a scenario where the, the racial calculus is more important than the protection,
00:37:33.900
And now you can't walk outside and you're, you're not blaming the government.
00:37:38.220
You're not making, blaming the people who actually made that the, you know, the kind
00:37:42.420
of the law of the land, the situation which you live in, you're blaming, you know, men
00:37:46.640
in general or people or men in your life rather than actually looking at the people involved.
00:37:51.680
I want to bring this up just because, you know, I don't normally want to just show replies
00:37:55.640
to myself on Twitter, but this guy's reply went viral because it was so bad.
00:37:59.400
So I had a tweet on this body cam, you know, me just saying, you know, you know, what,
00:38:04.660
what, what you actually get on body camera, be able to end up getting like, you know, over
00:38:10.620
And so this guy responded and in his bio, it literally says like, uh, you know, communist
00:38:18.400
Uh, but he says, uh, this was, this was racism and abuse.
00:38:22.260
He had a gun and she didn't, she was clearly having a psychotic episode.
00:38:26.620
People having psychotic episodes don't deserve to be murdered.
00:38:29.440
So what he's basically saying here, there's really, really not even much, uh, you know,
00:38:35.740
there's not really much of a Dale, uh, over it is saying, if a black person wants to kill
00:38:41.940
If a person of color decides to commit a crime against you, it is your job to allow that
00:38:47.920
crime to happen up to and including your own murder.
00:38:50.880
And if you take actions to stop that murder, or if you see someone who seems like they
00:38:57.420
are a danger to themselves or others, and you call that in and someone responds, then
00:39:04.380
There is no scenario in which that is a reasonable response.
00:39:09.340
Any self-defense, any attempt to avoid becoming a victim is itself a crime against the state.
00:39:20.880
Yeah, I mean, going back to what you said earlier, right, it's, there, there's multiple
00:39:27.860
ways to look at the, the impact of, of crime, right?
00:39:31.600
The easiest is just, well, who gets hurt, right?
00:39:35.000
The, the, the second order, right, is the economic impact, right?
00:39:39.380
You weren't able to do something else, but we're talking about the social impact, right?
00:39:43.360
You know, you were talking earlier, like, oh, I don't want to let my kids go outside.
00:39:46.100
I'm forced to live with these, you know, these violent people all the time.
00:39:50.860
It, it completely destroys the kind of cohesive nature of a community.
00:39:58.320
If you have people who don't live around you saying, if you don't want to live like this,
00:40:05.440
You should stand there and let yourself be stabbed in the face.
00:40:08.760
It's like, well, and I'm not trying to be sensational here, but like, how do you have
00:40:15.500
You know, I don't really know what happens in Massachusetts.
00:40:18.960
I, God willing, I never will again, but I really have no opinion on the kind of laws they
00:40:23.760
It's, it's not anywhere near me, but this, you know, this kind of like state religion that
00:40:28.000
is very, very interested in what goes on where you live, right?
00:40:31.840
Is very interested in how crime is handled in your city, right?
00:40:35.840
Is basically going to say that, you know, the kind of, and I'm going to use a leftist
00:40:40.920
The lived experience of the people who, who are there, right?
00:40:44.680
You have to be, you know, watch their, their culture basically fray, you know, due to this,
00:40:49.880
this level of background violence, it's simply not a concern to them.
00:40:53.740
I mean, again, like I said, I, I, I don't want to just like reduce it to the, to the pure,
00:41:02.880
The chart went up that's bad because there's a very real human cost to this, right?
00:41:07.760
It's difficult to quantify how many people didn't go out to dinner with their family
00:41:12.120
because they were worried about getting mugged, you know, or how many people, you know, have
00:41:16.140
you seen the, the photos from San Francisco, right?
00:41:18.780
Of people putting signs on their window that says, you know, don't break in.
00:41:23.920
Take these kinds of ridiculous, you know, ridiculous precautions to avoid crime.
00:41:29.340
And it's something that, again, in the richest country in the world, you wouldn't assume would
00:41:35.500
There are countries significantly poorer than ours that don't have these problems.
00:41:42.780
Our elites have chosen for this to be the case and they are choosing to still allow it.
00:41:47.460
Um, yeah, this really reflected itself in an interview that I, uh, I played recently on
00:41:54.880
the show where, you know, uh, JD Vance was speaking with that ABC host and they're talking
00:42:01.220
about the takeover, the hostile takeover of apartment complexes in Aurora, Colorado.
00:42:07.960
And, you know, they're, they're on this misinformation thing.
00:42:11.840
It's all right-wingers blowing out of, uh, out of proportion.
00:42:15.000
That's, that's kind of the only line they have left at this point.
00:42:18.460
Maybe, you know, they've given up on, it's not happening at all, but well, it's not, you
00:42:27.060
You know, the police, we talked to the police and they said, it's only a handful of apartment
00:42:34.680
And JD Vance stops her and says, do you hear yourself?
00:42:38.020
Like, do you hear the words that you're saying?
00:42:40.280
Like, we have a woman who is incredibly privileged.
00:42:44.100
She is probably living in a very upscale neighborhood.
00:42:47.820
She is never facing any of these obstacles, any of these problems.
00:42:52.680
She, her job is to get in front of the nation and in theory, convey their concerns to their
00:42:59.960
And she gets up there and she looks people in the eye and says, well, you know, you're
00:43:04.580
just trying to cause hysteria because only a few apartment complexes are captured by
00:43:14.860
But even if it wasn't the fact that she would even phrase that as like, oh, well, only a
00:43:20.220
few apartment complexes where Americans live have been completely captured by armed men
00:43:28.360
There's a word for when armed men from a foreign country capture parts of your country and make
00:43:35.020
it impossible for the people who live there that that's called an invasion that that's
00:43:40.620
conquest by, by any definition throughout history.
00:43:44.460
But our elites are just like, well, that's not, it's only a few, it's just a handful.
00:43:51.240
You know, well, it's only, it's only a few apartment complexes.
00:43:55.260
It's only a few deaths from, you know, fentanyl laced drugs.
00:44:05.260
Like this is the worst type of like your five-year-old lying to you that we've ever seen.
00:44:11.080
And yet this is supposed to be the way in which our elite class communicates the constant
00:44:17.360
And, and to quote Anna Kasparian, they're better than you, right?
00:44:23.020
They view themselves as this kind of like unassailable white, you know, like ivory tower, right?
00:44:30.300
They deserve to be at the top and by, by their output, that's not, that's not showing, right?
00:44:37.420
Very clearly, these people are not good at running a country.
00:44:41.940
And, you know, one of the things that I think about a lot, right?
00:44:44.540
Cause you, you've seen this in kind of multiple, uh, multiple kind of social changes over the
00:44:52.740
Where oftentimes the consequences are delayed, right?
00:44:56.840
You get this kind of sugar rush from changing something, you know, uh, legalizing weed is
00:45:01.720
Oh, there's all this money coming in and everything's going great.
00:45:05.680
And then four or five years down the line, you start to see that, wait a minute, there
00:45:12.960
Uh, and again, I think that basically what we're seeing is, you know, the, the knock-on
00:45:26.260
Propelled Joe Biden to one of the greatest, uh, political victories of all time, right?
00:45:30.980
More popular than Obama, you know, an amazing, a truly amazing politician.
00:45:42.360
Those consequences, certainly some of them were easily apparent, especially if you lived
00:45:46.420
in Kenosha, but that created a knock-on effect where immediately afterwards, there was a massive
00:45:52.500
increase in traffic fatalities, murders, robberies, almost overnight, right?
00:45:58.760
You can look into the sociology of this, but it's effectively a tabletop graph, right?
00:46:02.420
We go up a massive amount one day to the other, which is very difficult to explain.
00:46:10.000
We have a society where for four years, a large number of crimes have been decriminalized,
00:46:19.100
Chicago, the DA there has declined to prosecute a lot of gangland shootings, treating them not
00:46:29.520
For if I say, Aura, you know, I don't like your shirt and you say, well, I don't like
00:46:35.240
You know, we get into a scuffle, the cops show up and we both say like, hey, look, yeah,
00:46:39.060
this was mutual, no need to get the police involved.
00:46:43.880
Not for gangbangers trading shots out of a busted out Nissan Altima, right?
00:46:59.260
And you see it not in the official data, at least the first time around.
00:47:04.540
But when we get the actual account, we can see that those decisions do matter, right?
00:47:14.880
Going back to what do we want in a good leader is a leader whose interests are aligned with
00:47:20.840
Someone like Hoppe would write about where he wants his country to do well, right?
00:47:29.600
I'm not kind of pining after some philosopher king, but very clearly the people in charge
00:47:34.140
of this country do not have our best interest at heart.
00:47:39.020
Yeah, I think it's critical for people to understand that ultimately this is, as you
00:48:02.480
Now, there are some doomers who say this can just go on forever.
00:48:05.400
Remember that, you know, the American people have no spine and there will never be any
00:48:18.120
A few years ago, if a, you know, if a news organization challenged a Republican and said,
00:48:24.540
you disagreed with an official source, therefore, you know, you're some kind of crazy conspiracy
00:48:29.660
theorist, that Republican would jump back in line.
00:48:32.200
And that's because the Republicans are useless and garbage.
00:48:35.400
But increasingly, there are people who are inside administrations, inside organizations,
00:48:40.660
even inside the Republican Party itself, who are recognizing that this is a failing
00:48:46.560
tactic, that they can't be cowed by this, that if they continue to worry more about what
00:48:51.080
the media is labeling them than what people are actually seeing, that they're going to
00:49:02.000
But either way, I think there is a serious shift.
00:49:04.680
If not enough, there are still far too many people in the GOP and even in the conservative
00:49:09.940
movement more broadly that still, you know, clamor for the respect of the New York Times
00:49:17.280
But more and more politicians are realizing, leaders are realizing that there is more to be gained by questioning the system and questioning its results and questioning the manipulation than
00:49:30.880
there is by buying into it and maintaining the respectability of credible institutions.
00:49:36.540
Because there is no credible credibility in those institutions.
00:49:46.720
It's bad for the overall society because we rely on that institutional consensus to coordinate our vast bureaucratic managerial system.
00:49:56.020
But it is good for those who recognize that system is ultimately harmful to the well-being of people.
00:50:03.580
Because as you've pointed out repeatedly, they are actively ignoring that in the hopes of creating this data and manipulating this data and compelling outcomes.
00:50:12.140
But even our political leaders, even many of whom have been cowards in the past, are starting to recognize if they want a future, they have to be willing to question at some level what is coming out of these official sources.
00:50:26.120
And look, you know, neither you nor I is particularly liberal.
00:50:32.680
But there is something to the idea of the consent of the governed.
00:50:36.980
People have to think that their government is at least in some way legitimate.
00:50:41.200
And if the government can't hold up its end of the deal, right, if it can't do the things that governments do, like at a very basic level, provide security, it loses legitimacy.
00:50:54.140
Losing the mandate of heaven doesn't immediately kick you out of power.
00:50:57.760
But the problem is, right, governments depend on a lot of soft power.
00:51:01.980
How often in your life do you really interact with government force?
00:51:07.300
But, you know, you assume that if I don't do what I'm supposed to, someone will come and get me.
00:51:17.100
If people don't assume they are dangerous or capable or worthy of respect, well, you get something like the government of Haiti.
00:51:24.720
Where everyone basically just does whatever they want.
00:51:27.200
And the government is not a factor in their life.
00:51:31.200
And I think that, you know, I'm not trying to take this in a libertarian direction, not at all.
00:51:36.340
But the problem is, in order to run a country, you need to be seen as, at least by a certain percentage of people, as legitimate and as being really in charge.
00:51:45.380
I mean, look at, you know, like the Russia-Ukraine situation.
00:51:48.020
You know, there are places where they're technically legally still part of Ukraine.
00:51:55.380
So it's like, well, does it matter if you're, another example, in Colorado, right, technically part of the U.S., but a bunch of Venezuelan guys control the bloc with guns, right?
00:52:06.680
And so this loss of sovereignty, right, it's not purely theoretical.
00:52:11.840
And I think that, to your point, right, it's not good in the short term because I want to live in a good country.
00:52:18.060
But as someone who despises this government, well, they're kind of doing it to themselves.
00:52:25.500
I mean, at some point, maybe we'll get the dread rollout.
00:52:28.660
You know, you just, you know, put the whole combo in there.
00:52:33.320
The only way to actually police, you know, megacity one is through that kind of justice.
00:52:38.980
It certainly can't make some of these Democrat cities worse.
00:52:43.660
No, no, it would strictly be an upgrade from the current system.
00:52:47.320
I don't, well, while I may be joking about the creation of that bureau, I'm not joking for about, you know, how it would be an improvement in the slightest.
00:52:55.640
It all depends on your definition of the term community policing, all right?
00:53:02.400
Well, we're going to move over to the questions of the people.
00:53:04.540
But before we do, Jay, where can people find your great work?
00:53:07.400
So sure, my primary output is the Jay Burden Show, which is, as Aaron intonated, is an interview show, two episodes a week.
00:53:14.160
And you can find that on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you listen to podcasts.
00:53:19.540
Again, thank you so much for having me on, Aaron.
00:53:24.740
Arthur says, progressives lobby to make body cams a requirement for years.
00:53:30.060
Ironic how the cameras proved how insane a portion of society really is.
00:53:35.820
It's real is reopening lunatic asylums of valid, a valid solution.
00:53:41.760
Again, it's such a huge thing that it backfires.
00:53:45.420
And I think that's, you know, a huge part of this reveal has been that, you know, we recognize that the system has its faults and problems, but ultimately we see kind of the nature of violence and the reality of it from the body cams more than we see any kind of systemic oppression of particular communities.
00:54:06.720
Touching on the insane asylum thing, obviously this person was unwell in this particular situation that they were called because of a mental health issue.
00:54:16.440
But I'd also like to make it clear that while we need a more robust way to deal with mental health, the idea that opening asylums kind of solves this problem in and of itself is also an issue.
00:54:31.720
It's not that insane people don't commit crime and there isn't a problem with those that do, but the majority of our crime is not committed by people who are mentally unwell.
00:54:42.220
The majority of our crime is committed by people who are malicious and bad.
00:54:47.320
And that's something we should recognize is that evil is real.
00:54:53.220
And ultimately there is a, you know, the 80% of our crime tends to be done by about 20% of criminals.
00:54:59.940
So it's not just, you know, lunatics that though, though, obviously putting people in asylums who deserve to be in asylums would be an improvement.
00:55:09.420
Well, and that's a point for another time, right?
00:55:12.300
But treating criminality as sort of a psychic illness, right?
00:55:19.320
That's a very insidious change in how we view criminality.
00:55:22.660
Again, complicated discussion for another time, but nonetheless, an interesting point.
00:55:27.660
Robert Winesfield says, now we're Nazi adjacent, adjacent, adjacent.
00:55:33.580
I'm telling the Talmudic network, kidding, big fan of the Beaver King.
00:55:44.940
Ah, two of my favorite people that keep me from losing what's left of my mind.
00:55:51.520
I just realized you have your own YouTube channel, so I'm sure people can check that out.
00:55:56.040
I think he might be bigger than both of us, actually, if I'm not mistaken.
00:56:01.340
I've had him on the show before, and he does a lot of viewership.
00:56:09.020
Flimper are with the Beaver there, just respecting the Beaver Gang.
00:56:20.160
Slow departments make up crime for funding, and busy departments are buried in paperwork
00:56:27.640
Again, as someone, you know, not in not direct law enforcement experience, but plenty of direct
00:56:34.640
experience in government bureaucracy and the way in which it has manipulated, I agree 100%.
00:56:43.300
Again, I want to make it clear the top is corrupt.
00:56:52.340
I just also want to make it clear that everyone along the chain is also incentivized to lie as
00:56:57.920
So whatever the problem is at the top, and it is significant, as we can see in the differences
00:57:02.040
in the crime data that we've already compared, but as bad as you think it is there, I assure
00:57:11.800
Creeper Weirdo says, dose the left, does, I think that's supposed to be, does the left
00:57:19.200
Yeah, I mean, they trust that you will believe what they tell you is the science.
00:57:25.360
Um, perspicacious heretic says, but Steven Pinker said everything was getting better.
00:57:31.040
But, you know, up and to the right, up and to the right.
00:57:33.520
You know what I love about Steven Pinker is he wrote a book about the blank slate and then
00:57:38.980
Um, but right up there with Jonathan Haidt writing The Righteous Mind and then completely
00:57:43.220
ignoring all of the conclusions of his own work.
00:57:49.480
Uh, that argument might've been, uh, plausible 10 years ago, but I mean, I feel like I can
00:57:56.920
just gesture outside and, uh, yeah, see that his arguments didn't pan out.
00:58:02.640
Yeah, one of those end of history, oh no, did I, did I freeze that in amber for people
00:58:11.440
Uh, Flubbar says, the leftist mob will always defend the evildoer from Barabbas to Wilson.
00:58:18.140
There is no convincing them, only dismissing them.
00:58:24.180
Cooper Weirder says, friendly reminder to the black pill is a suppository, insert dirty
00:58:28.060
hairy quote here, insert unfortunate choice of words.
00:58:33.280
Uh, Torin McCabe says, Biden is not in charge, but hypothetically, if we had a communist strongman
00:58:38.500
leader, he could easily just delegate to our current admins, thus no change.
00:58:43.960
And I, I think Torin, that's ultimately the point for a lot of people that look at someone
00:58:48.360
like, you know, Kamala Harris and you know, what is she going to change?
00:58:52.360
Nothing because Biden isn't in charge and she won't be in charge either.
00:58:55.760
You know, there's a lot of people on the right, a lot of Republican commentators, conservative
00:58:59.900
commentators say, oh no, Harris is so much more dangerous.
00:59:09.860
But are any of her convictions significant enough where she would override the people
00:59:14.180
in charge, push down some very dangerous idea that she has?
00:59:17.320
I significantly doubt that she'll just do what she's told.
00:59:21.100
And what she's going to be told is terrible enough.
00:59:23.200
And then Creeper Weirdo says, who else is tired of criminals laughing in court?
00:59:31.880
Particularly heinous footage whenever you see that.
00:59:34.400
All right, guys, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up.
00:59:36.780
I once again want to thank Jay Burton for coming on.
00:59:39.080
You should make sure to be watching all of his podcast and other content, reading his
00:59:47.220
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00:59:51.540
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00:59:53.920
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00:59:59.200
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01:00:05.700
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