The Auron MacIntyre Show - Dismantling the Department of Education ｜ Guest： Connor Boyack

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00:00:29.760 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.500 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

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00:01:06.460 So, like many people, I was very excited about one of Donald Trump's initiatives that he listed during his campaign,

00:01:14.620 which was getting rid of the Department of Education.

00:01:17.300 As somebody who worked in the public education system for many years,

00:01:21.300 I am incredibly familiar with how much the system is bogged down by the rules and regulations

00:01:27.360 and everything else forced onto it by the Department of Education.

00:01:31.300 But many people have promised to get rid of the Department of Education and no one has succeeded yet.

00:01:37.660 So I wanted to bring on Connor Boyack.

00:01:40.160 He is the head of the Libertas Institute and he's also the author of the very popular Tuttle Twins books for children.

00:01:47.660 He's very familiar with the educational system.

00:01:50.020 I want to talk to him about what's going on, what the Department of Education does.

00:01:54.360 Can it actually be deconstructed?

00:01:56.560 And what would the education system look like after it's on?

00:01:59.840 Connor, thank you so much for joining me today.

00:02:01.840 Thanks for having me on.

00:02:02.640 Appreciate it.

00:02:03.480 Of course.

00:02:04.320 So for people who aren't familiar with your work,

00:02:07.020 could you give a little bit of your background before we head into the larger discussion?

00:02:11.140 Yeah.

00:02:11.600 So I run Think Tank.

00:02:12.980 We change laws trying to get the government out of people's lives.

00:02:16.240 But most people know me for the Tuttle Twins books.

00:02:19.120 We've sold over 6 million books to families around the country and now around the world in 13 languages,

00:02:25.520 helping parents talk to their kids about ideas that matter, how the world works.

00:02:30.080 I'm talking things like entrepreneurship, why inflation is happening, property rights,

00:02:35.200 the importance of merit and free speech, the dangers of socialism and so forth.

00:02:40.780 Ideas that one would hope that the schools would be teaching our kids.

00:02:44.060 Not only are they not teaching many of these ideas, many schools are teaching quite opposing ideas.

00:02:49.440 So the Tuttle Twins, we have books and a cartoon on Angel Studios and all kinds of resources to empower parents to help their kids learn.

00:02:58.400 The reality is a lot of adults end up learning, too, because it's in a very simple format.

00:03:02.000 And they're like, oh, I never learned this in school.

00:03:03.920 How interesting.

00:03:05.540 So our whole mission is really just trying to kind of spread these ideas, help empower families,

00:03:10.560 and then try and increase freedom in America.

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00:04:15.400 All right, so let's begin at the beginning.

00:04:18.780 I talked to a lot of people who are worried about the Department of Education going away,

00:04:23.300 and whenever I ask them,

00:04:24.660 what do you think happens if the Department of Education goes away?

00:04:27.760 They're never quite sure.

00:04:28.860 Something about how kids won't learn how to read,

00:04:31.380 which they don't do anyway because I know I've been a teacher in public school,

00:04:35.680 or maybe their student loans will suddenly explode in cost or something like that.

00:04:41.240 For people who are not familiar, what does the Department of Education actually do?

00:04:46.160 So this is a cabinet-level department in the United States government

00:04:51.940 that was created in 1979.

00:04:55.080 Jimmy Carter created it.

00:04:56.980 He was struggling with his re-election bid.

00:04:59.080 He was hoping to get support from the Teachers Union,

00:05:01.460 the National Education Association.

00:05:04.300 His campaign promised that if they secured the support of the union,

00:05:08.580 that they would move what was at the time a smaller agency within the federal government

00:05:14.380 that was involved in federal education,

00:05:16.520 and they would turn it into a cabinet-level position.

00:05:20.480 Of course, they endorsed him.

00:05:22.120 He created it.

00:05:24.100 What I like, why I bring that up,

00:05:26.540 is that I've found that a lot of people think that,

00:05:28.660 oh, this was in the Constitution,

00:05:30.000 or back in the days of Abraham Lincoln,

00:05:32.320 they created the Department of Education.

00:05:34.420 No, no, no, no.

00:05:35.900 1979.

00:05:36.740 That's all we're talking about.

00:05:37.980 And so then you have to look at perhaps education outcomes before 1979

00:05:43.520 and education outcomes since 1979.

00:05:46.540 One would think that if we were going to say

00:05:49.440 the federal Department of Education is doing good work,

00:05:52.900 that we would be able to see as a point in contrast

00:05:55.660 that once they began that work in 1979,

00:05:58.860 things started to improve.

00:06:00.440 What we find, of course, is the exact opposite.

00:06:03.460 And so right now, the U.S. Department of Education

00:06:05.680 is involved in a lot of grant-making,

00:06:07.980 what I call legal bribes.

00:06:10.600 They're trying to get schools and states and others

00:06:13.080 to follow the policies that they want,

00:06:14.960 and they do that in the form of dangling grants in front of them

00:06:17.840 as long as they'll comply.

00:06:19.860 They oversee a number of federal regulations

00:06:21.640 that Congress has passed pertaining to education.

00:06:26.060 They've also, as any administrative agency,

00:06:28.540 created their own rules.

00:06:30.300 There was a, we don't need to get into the weeds,

00:06:32.420 but there was a Supreme Court case recently

00:06:34.180 that overturned the Chevron precedent,

00:06:36.220 which is going to open up an opportunity

00:06:38.100 to revisit some of those regulations

00:06:39.780 because these agencies don't have power to create law,

00:06:44.140 and the Supreme Court finally recognized that

00:06:46.660 and overturned the past precedent.

00:06:48.420 So there's a lot of administrative rules

00:06:50.780 and a lot of congressional laws

00:06:52.780 that need to just be sidestepped

00:06:55.160 if we want education to return to a state,

00:06:59.300 to a local and even a family level

00:07:01.460 where it ought to belong.

00:07:02.760 For most teachers like yourself in the system,

00:07:05.480 for most parents with kids in the system,

00:07:08.240 they don't really see any benefit at all

00:07:11.000 of the U.S. Department of Education existing.

00:07:13.860 It is far distant, far removed.

00:07:16.000 I don't think anyone will see any downsides

00:07:18.540 other than the kind of DEI administrators

00:07:21.360 and the apparatus who benefits

00:07:24.320 from all the grants that they get.

00:07:26.000 But students, their education outcomes,

00:07:28.140 I don't think would be hurt in any way

00:07:30.600 were the Trump administration finally

00:07:32.900 to be able to get rid of

00:07:34.500 the U.S. Department of Education.

00:07:36.580 And I think that there's a lot of upside

00:07:38.880 to reallocating those dollars,

00:07:41.200 empowering states and locales to be more dynamic.

00:07:44.500 I think education outcomes would improve

00:07:46.460 if we got the government more out of the way.

00:07:49.800 Yeah, again, as someone who's been in the system

00:07:51.920 and was surrounded with a lot of teachers

00:07:54.380 who are part of teachers unions and were very liberal,

00:07:57.800 I never heard them ever say anything positive

00:08:00.280 about what the Department of Education was doing.

00:08:03.020 And these are the very people

00:08:03.800 who should be 100% for it,

00:08:06.180 should be very familiar with all its benefits.

00:08:08.440 I've never heard them say,

00:08:09.560 oh man, this resource I got

00:08:11.180 from the Department of Education

00:08:12.380 just really changed everything.

00:08:14.400 The strategy really helped me out.

00:08:16.340 A lot of it, like you say,

00:08:17.560 is just pushing different agendas,

00:08:19.760 manipulating the different districts

00:08:21.720 and states across the country

00:08:23.180 into enforcing the dictates

00:08:26.480 that are being pushed down by Washington,

00:08:28.360 but has very little to do

00:08:29.760 with actually supporting the education,

00:08:31.740 setting any kind of standards.

00:08:33.300 As you pointed out, in many cases,

00:08:35.380 education has just done way, way worse

00:08:37.880 after this has existed.

00:08:39.760 And that's pretty much the definition of failure

00:08:41.860 when it comes to a government department.

00:08:43.400 Good to know that you can fail that hard

00:08:44.960 and just basically become immortal.

00:08:47.420 But that's the real question, right?

00:08:49.620 Every Republican president, more or less,

00:08:51.940 has promised to get rid of

00:08:53.140 the Department of Education.

00:08:54.000 Ronald Reagan promised to get rid

00:08:55.780 of the Department of Education

00:08:56.640 just a few years after it was born.

00:08:59.340 This is something that obviously

00:09:00.420 has been incredibly hard

00:09:01.680 for people to actually get rid of.

00:09:03.640 Is it that no Republican president

00:09:05.000 ever really made a genuine effort,

00:09:07.340 or is it actually that difficult

00:09:09.340 to act something like

00:09:10.920 the Department of Education?

00:09:12.400 Well, Reagan is the first

00:09:14.060 that I'm aware of,

00:09:15.000 only because, again,

00:09:16.240 this was created in 1979.

00:09:17.820 So this was recently after passage.

00:09:20.720 Already conservatives were like,

00:09:21.940 no, this was the wrong thing.

00:09:23.360 We got to undo this.

00:09:25.200 And you're right that some Republican presidents

00:09:27.100 since have talked about it,

00:09:30.340 including Trump in 2016

00:09:31.840 appointing Betsy DeVos

00:09:33.380 to oversee the Department of Education,

00:09:35.920 who herself felt

00:09:37.060 that the department should not exist.

00:09:39.600 Now, what I would say is that

00:09:40.820 past presidents,

00:09:42.040 it's one thing to say these things

00:09:43.160 on a campaign trail.

00:09:44.200 It's a good buzzword.

00:09:45.240 The Republican base likes it.

00:09:47.620 It's another thing to have

00:09:49.060 the kind of zeitgeist

00:09:50.840 be aligned in such a way

00:09:52.800 that you can actually move forward

00:09:55.120 on what you talk about

00:09:56.220 on the campaign trail.

00:09:57.620 In this particular case,

00:09:59.120 you look at Trump today

00:10:00.340 and he's installing

00:10:01.340 in many different respects

00:10:03.380 people overseeing departments.

00:10:05.600 Look at Tulsi Gabbard.

00:10:06.680 She was on the flying watch list

00:10:09.500 at the TSA.

00:10:10.380 Now she's going to be over DNI.

00:10:12.720 So I think the zeitgeist is different.

00:10:14.760 The energy is a little bit different.

00:10:16.360 So I think the opportunity is different.

00:10:18.300 Last time, Trump and Reagan

00:10:19.480 and others didn't have

00:10:20.260 the world's richest man out there

00:10:21.860 fanning the flames on,

00:10:23.520 you know, the biggest,

00:10:24.560 most influential,

00:10:26.020 I should say,

00:10:26.540 social media platform,

00:10:27.980 stirring people up

00:10:28.960 and directing that energy

00:10:29.960 and saying,

00:10:30.420 yeah, we got to do this.

00:10:31.720 So I think the cards,

00:10:32.880 the stars are aligning there.

00:10:34.080 You know, the cards are right

00:10:35.020 to play a good hand.

00:10:36.460 Whether there's follow through

00:10:37.840 and execution,

00:10:38.840 you know, that becomes,

00:10:40.220 I think, the challenge.

00:10:40.960 I think there's a lot of opportunity.

00:10:42.240 I think there's a lot of energy.

00:10:43.220 Of course, I work in politics.

00:10:45.260 I work with legislators all the time.

00:10:47.460 I'll say that I am optimistically skeptical

00:10:51.280 that it's actually going to happen.

00:10:54.920 But look, we're in a different world

00:10:56.540 post-pandemic.

00:10:57.960 Parents' perceptions about education

00:10:59.640 have markedly changed.

00:11:01.280 Support for so-called school choice

00:11:02.840 is through the roof.

00:11:04.240 You have multiple states,

00:11:05.600 red Republican states,

00:11:06.860 including my own in Utah,

00:11:08.480 passing what are called

00:11:09.880 education savings accounts,

00:11:11.560 sometimes called

00:11:12.160 education spending accounts,

00:11:14.200 where the tax dollars

00:11:15.160 that were going to

00:11:16.200 your child's education

00:11:17.220 in the system,

00:11:18.040 you can unlock those dollars

00:11:19.500 and direct them to,

00:11:20.860 you know, a private school

00:11:21.980 of your choice

00:11:22.700 or use it for homeschooling

00:11:24.300 and so forth.

00:11:24.980 So there's a lot of states

00:11:26.080 now experimenting

00:11:26.820 with alternative education models.

00:11:28.940 We have a marketplace

00:11:29.940 of micro schools now,

00:11:31.800 what were called pandemic pods.

00:11:34.120 There's just a different landscape.

00:11:36.340 Homeschooling is still on the rise.

00:11:39.000 Enrollments are down

00:11:40.060 at government schools.

00:11:42.340 Testing outcomes

00:11:43.220 are consistently down

00:11:44.640 at government schools.

00:11:46.140 Whether the U.S. Department

00:11:47.360 of Education goes away or not,

00:11:49.520 I think the market is shifting.

00:11:51.640 And a lot of parents

00:11:52.780 are seeing that

00:11:53.760 there are abundant opportunities

00:11:55.500 to explore

00:11:56.240 for their children's education

00:11:58.040 that are superior

00:11:58.820 to the status quo.

00:12:00.260 Whether the U.S. government,

00:12:01.660 you know, gets with the program

00:12:02.740 and actually follows through

00:12:03.840 and pushes some of that power

00:12:05.100 and revenue back down

00:12:05.940 to the states is another thing.

00:12:07.080 But even if that doesn't happen,

00:12:08.740 I don't want your viewers,

00:12:10.180 you know, to walk away

00:12:11.160 thinking like,

00:12:11.880 oh, we're waiting

00:12:12.620 on this important thing

00:12:13.820 for the world to be transformed.

00:12:15.680 The education world

00:12:16.480 is already transforming

00:12:17.620 in a very positive way.

00:12:19.840 Hopefully a repeal

00:12:21.000 of the Department of Education

00:12:21.900 can be an accelerant

00:12:23.020 in that transformation.

00:12:24.700 But even if it doesn't happen,

00:12:26.920 there's still amazing opportunities

00:12:28.820 that are developing

00:12:29.620 in the education world

00:12:30.860 where parents have more options

00:12:32.220 than they ever did before.

00:12:33.840 Yeah, I think that's really important

00:12:35.760 because like in my home state

00:12:37.200 of Florida here,

00:12:37.900 obviously we've seen huge changes.

00:12:40.660 And I even did a show on this

00:12:42.240 when we had the different media outlets

00:12:43.920 starting to talk about,

00:12:45.580 oh, no, there's so many people,

00:12:47.620 so many kids have withdrawn

00:12:48.760 from the public school system

00:12:50.100 in Florida.

00:12:50.880 We might have to start

00:12:51.540 closing public schools.

00:12:53.300 The buildings are just,

00:12:55.100 are empty in many of these places.

00:12:56.620 And we no longer have

00:12:57.900 the need to constantly build more

00:13:00.440 and maintain these facilities.

00:13:02.000 And it's like,

00:13:02.740 not the briar patch, man.

00:13:04.100 No, this is just terrible.

00:13:05.640 You know, my little guy

00:13:07.080 is homeschooled now

00:13:07.840 and they get the grant

00:13:09.180 of the, you know,

00:13:10.240 that comes with, you know,

00:13:11.860 doing that.

00:13:12.400 You can do the same thing

00:13:13.040 and direct it towards

00:13:13.760 private schooling.

00:13:15.500 So many different options

00:13:16.680 are opening up for parents.

00:13:17.900 And you're exactly right

00:13:18.760 to say that the Department

00:13:19.940 of Education itself

00:13:21.040 needs to end,

00:13:22.040 but that is not the only thing

00:13:23.640 that is happening.

00:13:24.400 There's a lot more going on.

00:13:26.040 And I want to talk to you

00:13:26.900 a lot more about the,

00:13:27.960 you know, the shift in education

00:13:29.500 and all that here

00:13:30.140 in a second.

00:13:30.900 But I do want to focus

00:13:31.840 on the Department of Education

00:13:33.220 just for a minute

00:13:33.780 because so few people

00:13:35.260 are really familiar

00:13:36.480 with anything about it

00:13:37.720 that it's just kind of this

00:13:39.060 thing that we know

00:13:40.080 we probably don't like,

00:13:41.140 but there's not a lot

00:13:42.540 of familiarity with it.

00:13:43.680 If you were to shut down

00:13:45.640 a program like this,

00:13:46.780 if you actually were

00:13:47.560 going to get rid of it,

00:13:48.700 what would that process look like?

00:13:50.460 I mean, do you just start

00:13:51.180 putting yellow or pink slips

00:13:52.720 in everybody's mailbox?

00:13:54.180 Are there any responsibilities

00:13:55.580 or critical functions

00:13:57.420 that need to be decoupled

00:13:59.160 and handed down

00:14:00.200 to an alternative agency

00:14:01.440 or to the states

00:14:02.140 or something before that happens?

00:14:04.120 What would be some

00:14:04.900 of the steps

00:14:05.560 that would be necessary

00:14:06.920 if we were actually

00:14:07.940 going to make this work?

00:14:09.320 Well, last I looked,

00:14:10.760 the U.S. Department

00:14:11.660 of Education

00:14:12.240 had 4,400 employees,

00:14:15.460 which is insane.

00:14:16.740 They had a budget

00:14:17.440 of $68 billion with a B.

00:14:21.920 And so that is the size

00:14:23.540 of the department

00:14:24.900 that we're talking about.

00:14:25.640 It's grown quite large

00:14:26.720 over time.

00:14:27.640 Now, interestingly,

00:14:29.160 because of inflation,

00:14:30.260 the numbers have gone up.

00:14:31.580 Based in today's dollars,

00:14:33.020 when Jimmy Carter created it,

00:14:34.900 they had about $50 billion

00:14:36.940 in today's dollars.

00:14:38.760 So it's been kind of

00:14:39.400 a steady increase

00:14:40.240 since it was created

00:14:41.460 in terms of the overall amount

00:14:43.440 of revenue

00:14:43.840 that they've been given.

00:14:45.060 There are a number of programs

00:14:46.180 that would likely require

00:14:47.400 phase-out grants

00:14:48.700 that have periods

00:14:49.660 of concluding reporting

00:14:51.400 and performance expectations

00:14:53.760 from the states

00:14:54.580 that they're required to do.

00:14:55.820 Of course,

00:14:57.140 you know,

00:14:57.640 the Department of Education,

00:14:58.820 as I said,

00:14:59.720 was an outgrowth

00:15:01.000 of a previously existing agency.

00:15:03.800 So, you know,

00:15:04.620 certainly we could say,

00:15:05.840 let's repeal

00:15:06.260 the Department of Education.

00:15:07.860 Let's give a two-year

00:15:08.840 wind-down period

00:15:10.000 to kind of mothball everything

00:15:11.880 and kind of gracefully exit,

00:15:14.240 if you will.

00:15:15.100 There's another approach

00:15:16.000 where it's like,

00:15:16.600 let's reduce it to 80%,

00:15:18.120 remove it as being

00:15:19.600 a cabinet-level position,

00:15:21.140 and move it somewhere else,

00:15:22.880 you know,

00:15:23.220 under the,

00:15:23.920 I don't know,

00:15:24.480 Department of Health

00:15:25.040 and Human Services

00:15:25.740 or, you know,

00:15:26.180 pick your place, right?

00:15:27.020 Department of Commerce.

00:15:28.420 Now, I think, you know,

00:15:29.360 I favor a full-on repeal.

00:15:30.920 If you look at the Constitution,

00:15:32.540 the delegated powers

00:15:33.580 that the federal government

00:15:34.500 has been given,

00:15:35.240 nowhere in that document

00:15:36.900 does it say

00:15:37.480 that the federal government

00:15:38.660 should be involved

00:15:39.280 in education at all.

00:15:40.660 So some of this

00:15:41.240 will just depend on Congress.

00:15:42.900 It will depend on

00:15:44.000 how hard Trump

00:15:45.420 wants to go to the mat

00:15:46.480 in twisting arms

00:15:48.000 and trying to get this through.

00:15:49.500 Of course,

00:15:49.780 the teachers' unions

00:15:50.540 are going to howl.

00:15:51.780 They're going to cry uncle

00:15:53.120 because it's this revolving door

00:15:54.800 of political incest

00:15:55.940 between their organizations

00:15:57.160 and the Department of Education

00:15:58.380 like it is

00:15:58.940 for most large

00:15:59.740 regulated institutions

00:16:01.260 and their,

00:16:02.340 the regulatory capture

00:16:03.360 that exists in the government.

00:16:05.000 So there will be

00:16:05.940 political opposition,

00:16:07.060 which is why I say

00:16:08.500 there are kind of different ways

00:16:09.800 to go about

00:16:10.360 a substantial reduction

00:16:11.700 if not a full elimination.

00:16:14.100 I do think

00:16:14.500 it's going to be wisest

00:16:15.360 to have that grace period

00:16:17.180 whether it's one year

00:16:18.080 or two years.

00:16:18.820 There are programs

00:16:19.960 that have to be wound down.

00:16:21.600 There are commitments

00:16:22.320 that have been made

00:16:23.120 that, you know,

00:16:23.760 there's going to be litigation

00:16:24.660 if they just go in

00:16:26.180 and try and say,

00:16:27.120 hey, tomorrow,

00:16:27.800 this is completely ended.

00:16:29.560 Now, the federal

00:16:30.280 U.S. Department of Education

00:16:31.980 does have partners

00:16:32.940 in every state

00:16:33.720 at state levels

00:16:34.640 where most state governments,

00:16:36.100 they all have

00:16:36.640 their own departments

00:16:38.020 of education

00:16:38.960 or school boards

00:16:39.920 that oversee

00:16:40.600 education in their state.

00:16:42.240 So there's going to be

00:16:42.960 a natural kind of handoff

00:16:44.840 of like, hey,

00:16:45.520 we're no longer doing

00:16:46.360 this oversight for Title IX

00:16:47.680 or we're no longer doing

00:16:48.720 this, you know,

00:16:49.740 program anymore.

00:16:50.780 And so states are going

00:16:51.560 to have to now

00:16:52.080 also react to that.

00:16:53.920 Legislatures are going

00:16:54.820 to have to either

00:16:55.280 go into special session

00:16:56.360 to figure this out quickly

00:16:57.760 if it's in response

00:16:58.660 to a very quick federal change

00:17:00.600 or if there's that

00:17:01.600 phased-in timeline

00:17:03.080 of a year or two,

00:17:04.300 you're going to see

00:17:04.940 state legislatures

00:17:05.740 talking a lot about this.

00:17:06.860 Do we want to assume

00:17:07.620 the responsibility

00:17:08.340 that the feds were doing?

00:17:09.700 Did we never value it

00:17:10.760 and we're okay with it

00:17:11.640 just dying on the vine

00:17:12.840 because we're no longer

00:17:14.080 being bribed

00:17:14.860 into doing,

00:17:15.900 let's say,

00:17:16.160 common core

00:17:16.880 like was the big,

00:17:17.880 you know,

00:17:18.280 fury 10 years ago.

00:17:20.100 Maybe we as a state,

00:17:21.560 knowing that our federal

00:17:22.580 overlords are going

00:17:23.640 to be gone,

00:17:24.260 maybe we want to make

00:17:25.000 some changes

00:17:25.560 at a state level,

00:17:26.940 no longer being pushed

00:17:28.060 into certain education

00:17:29.800 programs that we wanted to.

00:17:31.080 So it's going to unlock

00:17:32.080 a lot of conversation

00:17:33.080 at a state level

00:17:33.940 in deciding

00:17:34.920 how do they want

00:17:35.720 to oversee education

00:17:36.620 in their states,

00:17:38.000 whether the federal

00:17:39.360 department completely

00:17:40.340 goes away

00:17:40.900 or substantially shrinks,

00:17:42.260 which I think

00:17:42.940 is a good thing

00:17:43.480 because constitutionally

00:17:44.800 education was

00:17:45.760 a state-based,

00:17:46.700 if not a fully localized

00:17:48.260 and community-based

00:17:49.560 program.

00:17:51.580 So I think that's going

00:17:52.120 to be a good thing.

00:17:52.740 But I do suspect

00:17:53.920 if there's enough energy

00:17:55.680 to push this issue forward,

00:17:57.480 ultimately,

00:17:57.920 there's going to have to be

00:17:58.780 some type of phased approach.

00:18:00.420 Hopefully not four years.

00:18:01.360 I don't want this to become

00:18:02.240 a thing in the next election.

00:18:03.760 I think Trump wants

00:18:04.760 to quickly push through

00:18:05.680 as many of these changes

00:18:06.560 as he can.

00:18:07.420 But speaking realistically,

00:18:08.540 it would be wise

00:18:09.780 that there's some kind

00:18:10.500 of sunsetting

00:18:11.260 and quick phase-out

00:18:12.260 of some of these programs

00:18:13.420 that have been operating

00:18:14.040 for years.

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00:18:30.480 I think for a lot of people,

00:18:32.160 again,

00:18:32.620 if they're worried

00:18:33.420 about the Department

00:18:34.480 of Education

00:18:35.040 going away at all,

00:18:36.860 the reason is

00:18:37.680 that they think

00:18:38.280 that therefore

00:18:38.960 there will be no standards

00:18:40.240 in education,

00:18:41.560 that just no one

00:18:42.300 will learn to read.

00:18:43.160 Some poor child

00:18:44.240 in Alabama

00:18:44.940 will be scrawling

00:18:46.400 in the dirt

00:18:46.880 hoping one day

00:18:47.860 to be able

00:18:48.620 to pick up a book.

00:18:49.940 But if you paid attention

00:18:51.420 during the pandemic,

00:18:52.940 this is what a lot

00:18:53.740 of parents learned

00:18:54.440 is that their kids

00:18:55.040 were actually learning

00:18:55.840 nothing.

00:18:57.080 And it's much worse

00:18:58.280 than parents realize

00:18:59.620 because when people

00:19:01.040 came back,

00:19:01.620 I was teaching

00:19:02.100 during the pandemic

00:19:02.840 and when we came back,

00:19:04.640 they had this phrase

00:19:05.900 grading with grace.

00:19:07.680 And what that meant

00:19:08.680 was students

00:19:09.920 could pass

00:19:11.680 like maybe three

00:19:12.480 assignments out

00:19:13.240 of the entire year

00:19:14.200 and you should

00:19:15.020 just kind of go ahead

00:19:15.940 and inflate their grades

00:19:16.860 and move them through.

00:19:18.540 And there's been

00:19:19.260 multiple years of this.

00:19:21.180 Like, you know,

00:19:22.120 kids went through

00:19:22.880 their entire cycle

00:19:23.760 of something like middle school

00:19:24.820 without having

00:19:25.920 a real grade at all.

00:19:27.400 And so they've had

00:19:28.640 to have very little achievement.

00:19:30.060 That's going to snowball.

00:19:31.240 Like, that's going to continue.

00:19:32.780 I guess I don't really

00:19:33.840 have a question on that.

00:19:34.600 I'm just saying

00:19:34.980 this is something

00:19:35.720 that a lot of people

00:19:36.460 learned, you know,

00:19:37.700 for the first time

00:19:38.840 when their kids came home

00:19:40.340 and they heard a whole lot

00:19:41.380 about diversity, equity,

00:19:42.380 inclusion,

00:19:42.840 but recognized

00:19:43.840 that their kids

00:19:44.620 couldn't read a book.

00:19:45.880 You raise an interesting point.

00:19:47.360 Perhaps you saw this

00:19:48.300 or your viewers saw this

00:19:49.300 recently in the news.

00:19:50.400 There was a group

00:19:51.520 of concerned educators,

00:19:53.560 parents,

00:19:54.700 education stakeholders

00:19:55.740 that got together.

00:19:57.000 They called themselves

00:19:57.960 the National Commission

00:19:58.920 on Excellence in Education.

00:20:00.140 They actually spent 18 months

00:20:02.380 going around the country,

00:20:04.100 talking to teachers,

00:20:06.140 reviewing curricula,

00:20:07.700 textbooks, standards,

00:20:09.080 talking to students,

00:20:10.520 asking parents

00:20:11.300 about the quality of education,

00:20:12.800 doing kind of a deep dive

00:20:13.720 to try and assess

00:20:14.640 how is education

00:20:16.120 in America going?

00:20:17.340 And they produced a report

00:20:18.780 called A Nation at Risk

00:20:20.240 in which they warned

00:20:21.560 the American people

00:20:22.500 that America's,

00:20:24.040 and this is a quote,

00:20:24.780 America's educational foundations

00:20:26.440 are being eroded

00:20:27.420 by a rising tide of mediocrity

00:20:30.240 and that this rising tide

00:20:31.640 of mediocrity,

00:20:32.720 if a foreign power

00:20:34.260 were to have done this

00:20:35.280 to America,

00:20:35.800 we would have considered it

00:20:36.960 an act of war,

00:20:38.400 they said,

00:20:39.360 but as it stands,

00:20:40.540 they concluded,

00:20:41.160 we allow this to happen

00:20:42.240 to ourselves.

00:20:43.020 Not a very rosy picture

00:20:44.320 that this group

00:20:45.020 was portraying,

00:20:46.280 saying that there's

00:20:47.220 this rising tide

00:20:48.020 in mediocrity

00:20:48.760 after an 18-month review

00:20:50.280 of America's

00:20:51.700 educational institutions.

00:20:53.020 What I lied about,

00:20:54.980 at a little fib,

00:20:56.300 I said,

00:20:56.740 you and your viewers

00:20:57.680 may have seen this

00:20:58.480 in the news recently.

00:20:59.860 That was the fib.

00:21:01.060 This was actually,

00:21:01.980 this report was released

00:21:03.240 in April 1983.

00:21:06.280 It was the Reagan administration

00:21:08.020 that published this report

00:21:09.660 titled A Nation at Risk

00:21:11.220 from the National Commission

00:21:12.900 on Excellence in Education.

00:21:14.320 They did do their 18-month review.

00:21:16.300 They did say

00:21:17.000 what I quoted them as saying

00:21:18.280 about this rising tide

00:21:19.880 and mediocrity.

00:21:20.500 What I find fascinating

00:21:21.680 about that

00:21:22.280 is that that was just

00:21:23.680 a few years

00:21:24.300 after the U.S. Department

00:21:25.320 of Education was created.

00:21:26.740 When I do,

00:21:27.580 I do a lot of like

00:21:28.140 public speaking

00:21:28.740 at homeschool

00:21:29.320 and education type conferences

00:21:30.580 and when I share this story,

00:21:31.860 I like to say,

00:21:32.800 you know,

00:21:33.040 raise of hands.

00:21:33.920 Anyone in the audience

00:21:34.920 believe that education outcomes

00:21:36.880 in America

00:21:37.420 have improved moderately

00:21:39.560 or at all

00:21:40.540 in the last 40 years

00:21:41.980 since they released

00:21:43.540 that report?

00:21:44.300 Of course,

00:21:44.680 no one raises their hands

00:21:45.760 because if anyone

00:21:46.960 has seen any of the results,

00:21:48.500 any of the standardized

00:21:49.260 assessment scores,

00:21:51.680 it's been a consistent

00:21:52.780 and steady decline

00:21:54.240 under the purview

00:21:55.660 of the U.S. Department

00:21:56.640 of Education.

00:21:57.240 Now, I'm not saying

00:21:58.040 that they bear entirely

00:21:59.200 the blame.

00:21:59.820 There are many factors

00:22:00.720 involved in why education

00:22:02.680 is or in 1983

00:22:04.280 was mediocre.

00:22:06.120 Now, I would say

00:22:06.760 it's sub-mediocre

00:22:08.000 four decades later.

00:22:09.260 There are many factors,

00:22:10.380 but the U.S. Department

00:22:11.100 of Education

00:22:11.560 is wasting a ton of money.

00:22:13.420 They're binding

00:22:14.100 the hands of educators.

00:22:15.820 They're imposing

00:22:16.300 all these different mandates

00:22:17.440 and restrictions.

00:22:18.060 And so I think

00:22:19.600 in any system

00:22:20.680 that has kind of

00:22:21.360 a quasi-monopoly,

00:22:22.600 centralized control,

00:22:24.200 you know,

00:22:24.420 the costs go up,

00:22:25.740 the quality goes down.

00:22:27.240 I think we need

00:22:27.960 to unshackle educators.

00:22:29.540 We need to reallocate

00:22:30.480 those financial resources.

00:22:32.280 We need to empower teachers

00:22:33.480 to be creative

00:22:34.220 in how they go about things

00:22:35.280 rather than have

00:22:36.040 this centralized production

00:22:37.720 of an education economy

00:22:38.980 in America.

00:22:40.080 And I think we can lift,

00:22:41.600 you know,

00:22:42.400 American youth

00:22:43.540 out of this mediocrity

00:22:45.000 that they've been subjected to

00:22:46.140 as a result of this system

00:22:47.200 for decades now.

00:22:48.780 One of the problems

00:22:49.660 that I saw over and over again,

00:22:51.480 and I think a lot of it

00:22:52.320 does come from

00:22:52.960 this centralization

00:22:53.900 that you're talking about,

00:22:55.520 is that each one

00:22:56.500 of these bureaucrats,

00:22:57.400 of course,

00:22:57.840 their assessments

00:22:58.600 have to be standardized.

00:22:59.880 They have to be massified.

00:23:01.300 There's no individual evaluation.

00:23:03.540 There's no ability

00:23:04.700 to make adjustments

00:23:06.860 for any given community,

00:23:09.880 these type of things.

00:23:10.980 And they looked across

00:23:12.040 teaching methods that worked,

00:23:13.500 things like direct instruction

00:23:14.660 that had a very long history

00:23:16.620 of positive outcomes.

00:23:18.580 But they said,

00:23:19.800 oh, well,

00:23:20.060 there's differences

00:23:21.260 in group outcomes.

00:23:22.740 Certain minority students

00:23:23.720 aren't performing well

00:23:24.600 under these systems,

00:23:25.320 these kind of things.

00:23:26.280 And so there's this constant churn

00:23:27.880 and look for new ways

00:23:29.340 to do all of these

00:23:30.120 instruction systems.

00:23:31.240 And what we kept getting

00:23:31.960 was worse and worse

00:23:33.380 instruction systems

00:23:34.420 coming down

00:23:35.120 in the hope that they would

00:23:36.080 fix this group disparity problem

00:23:38.000 that kept reemerging.

00:23:39.580 And rather than being able

00:23:41.000 to deal with different schools,

00:23:43.000 different communities,

00:23:43.920 different demographics,

00:23:44.820 understand their needs

00:23:45.700 and these kind of things,

00:23:46.740 we just had an endless carousel

00:23:49.080 of this.

00:23:49.600 And you felt like part of it,

00:23:50.920 of course,

00:23:51.300 was that it gave the Department

00:23:52.460 of Education power

00:23:53.840 and it allowed them

00:23:54.600 to carry a political narrative,

00:23:56.260 but also enriched a lot of people.

00:23:57.900 They want to do trainings.

00:23:58.720 They want to sell books.

00:23:59.840 They want to create these seminars

00:24:01.400 that are supposed to solve

00:24:03.120 all these problems.

00:24:03.920 So we got to do Kagan.

00:24:05.700 We got to do the next thing

00:24:06.660 and the next thing

00:24:07.180 and the next thing.

00:24:07.780 There's all these different systems

00:24:09.440 that are suddenly going to solve

00:24:10.800 this otherwise intractable problem.

00:24:12.860 But what keeps happening

00:24:14.020 is we see the results go down

00:24:16.280 for the average student

00:24:17.960 while no real increase comes

00:24:19.880 for those that were

00:24:20.640 theoretically disadvantaged,

00:24:21.980 but we just keep going

00:24:23.440 through the cycle,

00:24:24.160 never allowed to return

00:24:25.180 the stuff that actually worked,

00:24:26.860 that actually was backed

00:24:27.760 by positive statistical analysis

00:24:29.620 because, well,

00:24:31.060 ultimately it wasn't shifting

00:24:32.500 the right groups

00:24:33.320 in the direction

00:24:34.000 that the Department

00:24:35.460 of Education wanted.

00:24:36.960 Well, and this is where

00:24:38.080 I think conservatives

00:24:39.120 make a strategic misstep

00:24:40.600 is that they'll easily

00:24:42.140 point their ire

00:24:43.060 as they have for decades,

00:24:44.200 as you pointed out

00:24:44.920 with Reagan

00:24:45.360 and other Republican presidents

00:24:47.360 that have followed,

00:24:48.720 they'll point their ire

00:24:49.600 to the U.S. Department

00:24:50.680 of Education and rightly so

00:24:52.080 because, again,

00:24:52.640 there's nothing

00:24:53.080 constitutional about it

00:24:54.300 and this should not be

00:24:55.040 a function of the federal government.

00:24:56.540 The strategic misstep,

00:24:57.700 I think,

00:24:58.340 is that that's typically

00:24:59.320 where a lot of conservatives stop.

00:25:01.500 In fact, conservatives

00:25:02.260 are often very strong champions

00:25:04.160 of government schools

00:25:05.340 at a state and local level.

00:25:07.180 And as I said,

00:25:07.820 I don't think the U.S. Education Department

00:25:10.600 bears even most of the blame

00:25:12.620 for the poor quality

00:25:13.600 that we have.

00:25:14.540 I think fundamentally the problem

00:25:16.380 is that government

00:25:17.460 is not good

00:25:18.320 at anything that it does.

00:25:19.860 And right now,

00:25:20.500 it is in the business

00:25:21.360 of schooling children.

00:25:22.860 I don't say educating children.

00:25:24.200 I say it's in the business

00:25:25.340 of schooling children.

00:25:26.920 And, you know,

00:25:27.440 you look at NASA

00:25:28.280 compared to SpaceX,

00:25:30.140 a fraction of the cost,

00:25:32.560 way better quality,

00:25:33.800 way better output,

00:25:35.080 way better responsiveness

00:25:36.100 to, you know, customers.

00:25:37.480 We as conservatives,

00:25:38.960 libertarians,

00:25:39.600 we know these things.

00:25:40.540 We know that markets work.

00:25:42.180 It boggles the mind

00:25:43.260 why we as a movement

00:25:44.400 have not really consolidated

00:25:45.920 and rallied around

00:25:47.040 removing government

00:25:48.500 from the education

00:25:49.980 of our children entirely.

00:25:51.620 We could have so many arguments

00:25:53.180 as to why this is important.

00:25:55.040 One of them

00:25:55.940 that is of particular interest to me

00:25:58.220 is the fact that

00:25:58.940 when you entrust to the government

00:26:00.740 the education

00:26:01.980 of the rising generation,

00:26:03.860 there is a perverse incentive

00:26:05.520 because the government

00:26:06.500 wants to only teach narratives

00:26:08.640 that are flattering

00:26:09.520 to the government itself.

00:26:11.240 How many,

00:26:11.980 for example,

00:26:12.360 we did a book last year,

00:26:13.900 one of our most popular books now.

00:26:15.340 It's done really well

00:26:16.460 called

00:26:16.700 The Tuttle Twins Guide

00:26:17.740 to True Conspiracies.

00:26:19.760 And it's for teens.

00:26:21.040 It's a nonfiction book.

00:26:22.160 And every chapter

00:26:22.940 is a fully documented,

00:26:25.380 fully legitimate conspiracy.

00:26:28.380 Here's the CIA document.

00:26:29.880 Here's the declassified report.

00:26:31.580 Here's the whatever.

00:26:32.220 And what you find

00:26:33.760 at the conclusion

00:26:34.380 of reading this book

00:26:35.460 is, oh my gosh,

00:26:36.780 people in power

00:26:37.520 have been abusing

00:26:38.400 that power consistently.

00:26:40.100 The government is so big.

00:26:41.320 It's creating all these problems.

00:26:42.640 It's harming its citizens.

00:26:43.920 It's stealing their resources.

00:26:46.080 Maybe that's happening today.

00:26:47.420 Maybe we ought to be

00:26:48.160 a little skeptical

00:26:48.900 of government power today.

00:26:50.220 You don't learn that stuff,

00:26:51.320 though, in government schools.

00:26:52.440 The government school

00:26:53.240 is never going to teach you

00:26:54.220 how corrupt the government is.

00:26:56.100 Typically, it's like,

00:26:56.880 oh, FDR saved us

00:26:58.540 from the Depression

00:26:59.260 because of the New Deal, right?

00:27:01.360 And the Federal Reserve

00:27:02.380 stabilizes the economy.

00:27:04.160 And you get all these narratives

00:27:05.540 taught in the government school

00:27:06.900 that are self-serving,

00:27:08.100 that are flattering

00:27:09.140 and supportive of the government.

00:27:11.420 So that's where I think

00:27:12.120 the strategic misstep is.

00:27:13.340 We can talk all day long

00:27:14.420 about why the U.S. Department

00:27:15.940 of Education needs to end,

00:27:17.260 but it doesn't stop there.

00:27:19.200 We need to extricate government

00:27:20.500 just like we have a separation

00:27:21.560 of church and state.

00:27:22.700 We need a separation

00:27:23.840 of education and state.

00:27:25.280 We need to push this back

00:27:26.300 to the private market

00:27:27.160 for better outcome,

00:27:28.820 cheaper results,

00:27:29.640 way better education outcomes

00:27:31.040 for kids.

00:27:32.440 Well, and, you know,

00:27:34.160 this is the part

00:27:34.820 that nobody wants to talk about,

00:27:36.140 especially conservatives.

00:27:37.560 You know, during the pandemic,

00:27:39.200 there was this panic.

00:27:40.700 We got to get kids back into school.

00:27:42.560 And I was like,

00:27:43.400 hold on, wasn't the whole point

00:27:44.900 to get kids out

00:27:45.820 of government schools?

00:27:46.800 Aren't you been complaining

00:27:47.840 about government schools

00:27:48.920 for my entire life?

00:27:50.260 And now we're trying to rush kids

00:27:52.040 back into government school buildings

00:27:53.680 as quickly as possible.

00:27:54.880 Of course, kids still need

00:27:55.780 to be educated,

00:27:56.560 but this was the perfect opportunity

00:27:58.180 to break them away

00:27:59.700 from this dependence

00:28:00.800 on government schools.

00:28:01.900 But what you quickly realize

00:28:03.160 is that the reason

00:28:04.460 the conservative parents

00:28:05.620 were so interested

00:28:06.420 in opening public schools again

00:28:08.960 is that they weren't used

00:28:10.940 to taking care of their kids

00:28:11.940 and they're not used

00:28:12.620 to educating their kids.

00:28:13.860 And this is a really tough conversation

00:28:15.400 because this is a problem

00:28:16.640 of virtue, right?

00:28:17.620 Like if you look

00:28:18.640 at any republic

00:28:20.180 throughout history,

00:28:21.220 they recognize

00:28:22.280 that individual virtue

00:28:23.600 was the key

00:28:24.480 to self-government.

00:28:25.380 And if you were willing

00:28:26.980 to hand your responsibilities off,

00:28:29.160 whether it be caring

00:28:29.900 for your ailing grandparents

00:28:33.240 or educating your children,

00:28:35.360 if you're willing

00:28:35.860 to hand these responsibilities

00:28:37.240 to the state,

00:28:38.200 then ultimately

00:28:39.260 the state was going

00:28:40.340 to grow in power

00:28:41.260 and you were going

00:28:42.160 to become weaker.

00:28:44.000 And part of this

00:28:45.600 is the fact

00:28:46.340 that we've manufactured

00:28:47.500 an economy

00:28:48.340 in which both parents

00:28:49.560 need to work.

00:28:50.360 We need to make sure

00:28:51.220 mom can go to work.

00:28:52.680 We can't have the idea

00:28:54.040 that one parent

00:28:55.120 is dedicated

00:28:55.860 to the rearing

00:28:56.440 and education

00:28:57.320 of the children

00:28:57.900 and you mainly

00:28:59.740 do this through the parents

00:29:01.200 and that's how you impart

00:29:02.000 values in these kind of things.

00:29:03.560 A lot of parents

00:29:04.080 have also been told

00:29:05.760 that this is a highly,

00:29:07.560 something that requires

00:29:08.720 a high degree of expertise.

00:29:10.020 You got to have

00:29:10.500 that education.

00:29:11.420 You can't possibly

00:29:12.320 teach a child

00:29:13.020 if you haven't been

00:29:14.080 through an education

00:29:15.260 school in college.

00:29:16.320 And so they've bought

00:29:17.300 into this myth

00:29:18.360 and they find the idea

00:29:19.380 of educating

00:29:19.880 their own children

00:29:20.620 daunting, exhausting,

00:29:22.260 and would consume

00:29:23.800 too much of their time

00:29:24.940 and their ability

00:29:25.900 to make a second income

00:29:27.000 to cover the cost

00:29:27.840 of inflated housing,

00:29:29.040 these type of things.

00:29:30.600 You're exactly right.

00:29:31.580 When I speak

00:29:32.600 at homeschooling conferences,

00:29:33.480 I always like

00:29:34.120 to get a raise of hands

00:29:34.940 to say how many

00:29:35.900 are recent,

00:29:37.320 like new to homeschooling.

00:29:38.720 And 10 years ago,

00:29:40.400 not very many.

00:29:41.180 I'd say probably

00:29:41.860 a sixth or an eighth.

00:29:43.340 You know,

00:29:43.580 you had a lot of veterans

00:29:44.380 that were coming

00:29:45.080 year after year.

00:29:46.240 Now it's like 90%

00:29:47.680 of hands go up.

00:29:48.720 These are new parents.

00:29:49.640 And then I say,

00:29:50.080 okay, new parents,

00:29:51.360 keep your hands up.

00:29:52.260 Lower your hands

00:29:53.220 if you yourself

00:29:54.040 were public school, right?

00:29:55.640 And so the issue

00:29:56.460 that we find

00:29:57.060 is that all

00:29:57.900 of these parents,

00:29:58.740 they're new to homeschooling,

00:29:59.740 they're new to assuming

00:30:00.900 that kind of traditional

00:30:02.180 parental responsibility

00:30:03.860 of educating their children,

00:30:05.040 but they themselves

00:30:06.180 never had that experience.

00:30:08.280 And so they bring

00:30:09.040 to their homeschooling

00:30:09.980 this bias of like,

00:30:11.080 oh, but I had

00:30:11.600 a science teacher

00:30:12.360 and I had an English teacher.

00:30:13.900 I had all these

00:30:14.400 subject matter experts.

00:30:15.900 And what you consistently find

00:30:17.560 in the homeschooling community,

00:30:18.640 for example,

00:30:19.780 when parents are kind of

00:30:20.760 taking that burden

00:30:21.820 back upon themselves,

00:30:22.840 usually the moms,

00:30:24.040 is that there's

00:30:24.720 a ton of insecurity

00:30:25.760 because say an average

00:30:27.240 homeschooling mom

00:30:28.160 is good at English

00:30:31.020 and remembers

00:30:32.400 some of her biology

00:30:33.360 and so she'll be okay

00:30:34.520 teaching science,

00:30:35.380 but she hated math

00:30:36.740 and did poorly in math.

00:30:37.820 So suddenly that insecurity

00:30:39.000 flares up

00:30:39.720 and they feel like

00:30:41.000 they're going to be

00:30:41.360 a failure of a parent

00:30:42.840 because they're not going

00:30:43.720 to teach their kids math well.

00:30:45.160 My children are going

00:30:45.880 to fall behind

00:30:46.620 and they start to heap

00:30:48.240 that upon their own shoulders.

00:30:49.520 My message

00:30:50.120 when I speak to parents

00:30:51.480 is I say,

00:30:51.960 you need to let all of that go

00:30:53.180 because it has a flawed view

00:30:55.120 of what it takes

00:30:56.080 to educate a child.

00:30:57.380 In fact,

00:30:57.700 we don't educate children.

00:30:58.900 They educate themselves

00:31:00.080 with the right resources

00:31:01.340 and circumstances

00:31:02.220 and that is the only way

00:31:03.320 that true education

00:31:04.060 really ever happens.

00:31:05.300 When you force learning,

00:31:06.740 when you require

00:31:07.840 rote memorization,

00:31:09.260 it's pump and dump.

00:31:10.220 You'll pump it in their heads,

00:31:11.300 they'll dump it out on a test,

00:31:12.480 but it has no lasting impact.

00:31:14.480 And the reason for that

00:31:15.560 is that we're teaching content,

00:31:17.240 we're teaching all these ideas.

00:31:18.500 Memorize the quadratic equation,

00:31:20.480 right?

00:31:21.020 Understand,

00:31:21.880 you know,

00:31:22.580 that the mitochondria

00:31:23.400 is the powerhouse of the cell.

00:31:24.860 We're going to make you

00:31:25.460 memorize all these things

00:31:26.620 just in case

00:31:27.300 you ever need it for a test.

00:31:28.380 That's all the content

00:31:29.320 we're putting in kids' minds,

00:31:30.720 but content requires context.

00:31:33.820 If you have context for something,

00:31:35.700 if you're curious about something,

00:31:37.240 if it's relevant to you,

00:31:39.320 right,

00:31:39.520 if it makes sense

00:31:40.400 or is of interest,

00:31:42.020 you're going to embrace

00:31:42.900 that content.

00:31:43.740 You're going to internalize it.

00:31:44.780 You're going to remember it.

00:31:45.740 You're going to use it and apply it.

00:31:47.820 And so oftentimes in the schools,

00:31:49.460 we're just forcing kids

00:31:51.140 to binge all of this content,

00:31:52.720 but they have no context.

00:31:54.020 They'll raise their hands and say,

00:31:55.200 why are we learning this?

00:31:56.540 Why does this matter?

00:31:57.800 And oftentimes the response is,

00:31:59.220 put your hand down.

00:32:00.020 It's because it's on the test.

00:32:01.160 It's in the standards.

00:32:02.540 Everyone has to learn it.

00:32:03.960 And so I say to these parents,

00:32:05.520 let go of that notion

00:32:06.680 that you have to be

00:32:07.720 the science teacher,

00:32:09.080 that you have to be

00:32:09.700 the math teacher,

00:32:10.580 that you have to be

00:32:11.000 the English teacher,

00:32:12.040 because in fact,

00:32:12.860 all you need to be

00:32:13.980 is a resource provider.

00:32:16.300 You need to be good

00:32:17.000 at searching for resources online.

00:32:19.240 I used to say Googling things,

00:32:20.820 but Google is now fully evil

00:32:22.060 and I'm dropping that as a verb.

00:32:24.360 You go search online

00:32:25.500 for resources, right?

00:32:27.100 And there's an abundance

00:32:28.420 of amazing teachers.

00:32:30.360 I'll give you one resource

00:32:31.260 as an example,

00:32:32.320 outschool.com.

00:32:33.580 There are many services like this,

00:32:35.100 but parents can go

00:32:35.860 to outschool.com.

00:32:37.000 They can find

00:32:37.760 a math whiz college kid

00:32:39.440 who for, you know,

00:32:40.620 15 bucks an hour

00:32:41.700 will be a one-on-one tutor

00:32:43.120 for your kid for math.

00:32:44.360 Go use Khan Academy.

00:32:45.700 It's free.

00:32:46.400 Pull up some YouTube videos

00:32:47.760 where people who design

00:32:49.100 rockets for a living

00:32:49.980 are teaching you math concepts

00:32:51.420 in the context

00:32:52.200 of launching rockets, right?

00:32:53.920 There's so many ways.

00:32:55.860 And what parents need to realize

00:32:57.020 is that this is not

00:32:57.860 the homeschooling

00:32:58.820 or the private schooling

00:33:00.120 of two, three, four decades ago, right?

00:33:03.000 This is a different landscape,

00:33:04.440 especially post-pandemic.

00:33:06.420 Parents don't need to be

00:33:07.220 the knower

00:33:07.720 of all of the things.

00:33:08.840 They don't, it's okay

00:33:09.780 if you were bad in biology

00:33:11.020 or didn't, you know, ace geometry.

00:33:13.480 It's all fine

00:33:14.120 because there's an abundance

00:33:15.420 of resources

00:33:16.100 and all you need

00:33:17.140 to really do as a parent

00:33:18.260 is empower your kid

00:33:19.560 with those resources.

00:33:20.600 Let them explore

00:33:21.340 their curiosities.

00:33:22.400 Let them go down

00:33:23.080 rabbit holes of learning, right?

00:33:24.880 You don't know

00:33:25.320 what their future passions

00:33:26.380 and career interests

00:33:27.400 are going to be.

00:33:28.000 Let them go explore deeply

00:33:29.060 rather than saying,

00:33:30.160 no, but every eighth grader

00:33:31.200 must learn this

00:33:31.920 in this precise way

00:33:32.840 at this precise age.

00:33:34.420 Parents just need

00:33:34.920 to let a lot of that go.

00:33:36.900 And when they do,

00:33:37.620 they find that education

00:33:38.740 as you said

00:33:39.480 during the pandemic

00:33:40.480 when everyone was home

00:33:41.860 and they're like,

00:33:42.300 wait a minute,

00:33:42.660 my kids weren't learning

00:33:43.460 anything in school

00:33:44.360 and now that they're

00:33:45.280 learning at home,

00:33:46.040 they can learn

00:33:46.540 in an hour and a half

00:33:47.700 what they were spending

00:33:48.560 seven hours at the school

00:33:49.920 doing before.

00:33:51.000 Parents increasingly realize

00:33:52.500 that, oh,

00:33:53.180 this doesn't take

00:33:54.020 as much time.

00:33:55.260 My relationship

00:33:56.300 with my kids

00:33:57.000 are better.

00:33:57.840 They're not being bullied

00:33:58.760 or exposed

00:33:59.340 to toxic stuff

00:34:00.420 in the schools anymore.

00:34:01.680 They're able

00:34:02.340 to spend their time

00:34:03.280 focused on their passions

00:34:04.540 and their interests.

00:34:05.520 They're happier,

00:34:06.280 we're happier,

00:34:07.140 they're learning.

00:34:08.280 It's so empowering.

00:34:09.620 And so that's why I say,

00:34:10.540 great,

00:34:10.820 U.S. Department of Education,

00:34:11.980 whether it exists or not,

00:34:13.500 there's just a new landscape

00:34:14.780 for many parents to pursue.

00:34:16.620 But as you point out,

00:34:17.340 they just have to step

00:34:18.080 into that role

00:34:18.640 and realize

00:34:19.160 that is kind of

00:34:20.260 the cultural

00:34:20.940 parental responsibility

00:34:22.440 that they ought to reclaim.

00:34:24.480 But there's

00:34:25.500 a lot of support systems

00:34:26.600 out there.

00:34:27.240 There's a lot of resources

00:34:28.140 out there.

00:34:28.640 In many states,

00:34:29.240 there's funding out there

00:34:30.400 to make it all

00:34:31.060 financially feasible.

00:34:32.540 It's a totally new day

00:34:33.860 and I hope a lot more parents

00:34:35.020 take seriously

00:34:35.820 that charge,

00:34:37.320 that responsibility

00:34:38.000 to be the primary educators

00:34:39.360 of their children.

00:34:40.600 Yeah, I'll agree with you

00:34:42.140 on the resources.

00:34:43.480 You know,

00:34:43.720 I tell a lot of people,

00:34:45.000 you're smarter

00:34:45.600 than your kids' teachers.

00:34:46.700 It's not particularly hard.

00:34:48.440 And most of your teachers

00:34:49.740 are just Googling

00:34:51.140 for resources anyway.

00:34:52.700 That's what they're

00:34:53.420 actually doing.

00:34:54.200 That's how they spend

00:34:55.160 their planning period.

00:34:56.660 They are just Googling

00:34:58.120 the same thing

00:34:58.760 that you would be doing

00:34:59.780 to try to pull this up.

00:35:01.260 However,

00:35:01.600 I'm going to get on

00:35:02.920 to you on rote memorization

00:35:04.000 because this is a hobby

00:35:04.900 horse of mine.

00:35:06.480 In my experience,

00:35:08.440 you know,

00:35:08.860 30, 40 years ago,

00:35:10.320 a lot of kids

00:35:11.060 were what you're saying,

00:35:12.140 right?

00:35:12.300 They're just,

00:35:12.720 they're just encyclopedias

00:35:14.660 vomiting some kind

00:35:16.340 of rote memorization,

00:35:17.580 but they don't have

00:35:18.240 any context.

00:35:18.880 They don't know

00:35:19.200 what to do with it,

00:35:19.800 this kind of thing.

00:35:20.620 What I've noticed

00:35:21.380 is that for so many years

00:35:23.040 now,

00:35:24.280 teachers have been

00:35:25.240 focused on the idea

00:35:26.060 that, well,

00:35:26.560 you can always find

00:35:27.680 the knowledge,

00:35:28.320 but we're going

00:35:28.820 to learn the tools.

00:35:29.860 We're going to learn

00:35:30.220 the tools to understand

00:35:31.760 that these kind of things

00:35:32.640 and what happens

00:35:33.660 is the kids

00:35:34.440 are just blank slates.

00:35:35.900 They don't have

00:35:36.320 any actual factual knowledge.

00:35:38.680 They think that

00:35:39.280 everything that pops up

00:35:40.260 on Google is true,

00:35:41.240 so they just go

00:35:42.040 and they Google whatever

00:35:43.280 and they just point to it

00:35:44.320 and say this is the case

00:35:45.120 because they have

00:35:45.880 no grounding,

00:35:46.640 no factual basis

00:35:47.620 and therefore

00:35:48.200 they can't abstractly reason.

00:35:50.180 They can't paint

00:35:50.940 because they don't

00:35:51.880 have any paints.

00:35:52.720 Like the canvas

00:35:53.520 remains blank.

00:35:54.620 Yeah,

00:35:54.780 you know how to move

00:35:55.520 the brush,

00:35:56.000 but you have nothing

00:35:57.020 to paint with

00:35:57.780 because you have

00:35:58.760 no fundamental basis

00:35:59.940 for that understanding.

00:36:01.320 So, you know,

00:36:02.320 not to clash with you here,

00:36:04.160 but just that is one of my,

00:36:05.240 the things that drives me nuts

00:36:06.340 that I heard over and over again

00:36:07.500 in the education system.

00:36:08.460 We don't need to memorize anything.

00:36:09.700 We don't actually need

00:36:10.460 to know dates for history.

00:36:11.620 We don't need to understand

00:36:12.520 and what happens is

00:36:13.440 kids just end up

00:36:14.260 with McNuggets

00:36:14.940 of history, right?

00:36:15.820 There's no,

00:36:16.200 they don't have any sequence.

00:36:17.220 They don't have any context

00:36:18.160 and then they can,

00:36:20.000 and then yes,

00:36:20.800 they can't reason through it

00:36:22.820 because they can't put

00:36:23.900 anything in order.

00:36:24.760 There's no foundation there

00:36:26.320 from which they can actually

00:36:27.380 draw to create ideas.

00:36:29.700 I think you're right

00:36:30.780 and what resonates with me

00:36:31.680 about what you're saying

00:36:32.440 is more of the idea

00:36:33.540 of there being objective truth.

00:36:35.440 We live in a society

00:36:36.360 where kids are increasingly saying,

00:36:38.080 oh, I'm going to speak my truth

00:36:39.220 and you get in kind of

00:36:40.620 this like social decay.

00:36:41.980 I feel like if we can't

00:36:42.940 all have a shared,

00:36:43.860 you know,

00:36:44.400 understanding of certain realities

00:36:46.220 that just exist

00:36:47.300 and so whether that's,

00:36:49.300 you know,

00:36:49.400 two plus two does not equal five,

00:36:51.100 right?

00:36:51.340 It does in fact equal four

00:36:52.600 or go down whatever rabbit hole

00:36:54.060 you want.

00:36:54.700 I agree with you

00:36:55.680 to the extent

00:36:56.180 that there has to be

00:36:56.900 a foundation.

00:36:57.520 If you're going to let your kid

00:36:58.480 go down those rabbit holes

00:36:59.500 and chase their own,

00:37:00.440 you know,

00:37:00.960 passions and interests,

00:37:01.940 you've got to give them

00:37:02.600 a foundation of,

00:37:03.700 you know,

00:37:04.340 basic information.

00:37:05.240 I'm not saying let's do this

00:37:06.820 in a lord of the flies way

00:37:08.680 where the kids are,

00:37:09.660 you know,

00:37:10.120 doing it all themselves

00:37:10.960 and they lack that grounding.

00:37:12.260 That I think is the parental charge.

00:37:13.920 We do need to give our children

00:37:15.280 that grounding

00:37:16.640 upon which they can build

00:37:18.000 whatever they want to build,

00:37:18.980 but we do have to have

00:37:19.900 those kind of concrete set

00:37:21.120 of values,

00:37:22.460 ideas,

00:37:23.060 and facts

00:37:23.560 to go off of.

00:37:25.080 I am one who always bristled

00:37:26.700 against memorizing dates

00:37:27.860 in history,

00:37:28.900 but once I finally started

00:37:30.400 to pair it with storytelling,

00:37:32.680 when I started reading

00:37:33.500 biographies and stories,

00:37:35.280 the dates naturally came

00:37:36.540 because I was trying

00:37:37.360 to make sense

00:37:37.940 of the story.

00:37:39.020 And so I think a lot

00:37:39.600 of it comes from

00:37:40.300 just not like,

00:37:41.120 hey,

00:37:41.660 pop quiz,

00:37:42.460 pretend you're on Jeopardy.

00:37:43.500 Do you know this random date

00:37:44.860 to be able to,

00:37:45.440 you know,

00:37:46.060 I think you would probably agree

00:37:47.220 that the context,

00:37:48.280 the narrative,

00:37:49.080 the story,

00:37:49.460 the ideas,

00:37:50.240 the things that are

00:37:51.520 around those facts

00:37:52.500 are equally important

00:37:53.560 and then can,

00:37:54.420 I think,

00:37:54.660 help the children

00:37:55.680 learn those facts

00:37:57.220 because they have the context

00:37:58.580 and they're not just

00:37:59.260 memorizing the tidbits

00:38:00.220 of content.

00:38:01.500 Yeah,

00:38:01.660 there's definitely

00:38:02.200 a sweet spot in there

00:38:03.460 between grasping things

00:38:05.140 conceptually

00:38:06.300 and putting them

00:38:07.200 in context

00:38:07.860 and then like actually

00:38:08.940 having the factual

00:38:09.700 building blocks.

00:38:10.800 And we were going

00:38:11.400 just with the factual

00:38:12.300 building blocks

00:38:13.040 and then we swung

00:38:13.860 too far the other way

00:38:14.960 and said,

00:38:15.600 oh,

00:38:15.680 we're just going to learn

00:38:16.380 how to gather information

00:38:17.660 and go through it

00:38:18.680 but you don't actually

00:38:20.020 know anything

00:38:20.660 so you just go

00:38:21.780 to these resources.

00:38:23.700 Teachers kind of use it

00:38:24.620 as a lazy way

00:38:25.560 to avoid some

00:38:26.360 of the hard work there

00:38:27.120 and so I think

00:38:27.680 there is a sweet spot

00:38:29.020 in the middle

00:38:29.360 that combines

00:38:30.840 both approaches.

00:38:31.740 But I will bring up

00:38:33.040 one thing

00:38:33.780 that people always

00:38:35.320 talk about

00:38:36.000 when we talk about

00:38:36.820 the Department of Education

00:38:37.860 and generally just,

00:38:39.500 you know,

00:38:39.740 abolishing public education

00:38:41.440 as much as possible

00:38:42.280 in general

00:38:42.660 and transferring

00:38:43.240 that responsibility

00:38:45.200 to both parents

00:38:46.700 and private schools

00:38:47.820 and the thing

00:38:48.580 that's consistently

00:38:49.180 brought up,

00:38:49.740 the one point

00:38:50.560 that I think

00:38:50.980 does actually resonate

00:38:52.200 and there is some

00:38:53.280 issue that needs

00:38:54.520 to be addressed there

00:38:55.360 is the way

00:38:58.020 in which you teach

00:38:59.480 children with disabilities

00:39:01.020 these other issues.

00:39:02.300 A lot of the reasons

00:39:03.580 that private schools

00:39:04.820 are able to operate

00:39:05.740 cheaply or cheaper

00:39:07.360 in certain instances

00:39:08.660 or more efficiently

00:39:09.800 in certain instances

00:39:10.760 is they don't have

00:39:11.940 to slow the entire class

00:39:13.320 down for students

00:39:14.760 that are,

00:39:15.360 you know,

00:39:16.140 having certain accommodations.

00:39:17.740 They don't have

00:39:18.260 to take on severely disabled

00:39:19.620 and other students

00:39:20.400 and educate them

00:39:21.340 these kind of things

00:39:22.100 and so that means

00:39:23.040 that they,

00:39:23.500 you know,

00:39:23.700 they don't have

00:39:24.100 that additional drag

00:39:24.960 and all the other personnel

00:39:25.940 and everything else

00:39:26.680 that involve that.

00:39:28.060 What would happen

00:39:28.680 in the scenario

00:39:29.400 in which the public education

00:39:30.760 system is no longer

00:39:31.540 providing for that?

00:39:32.940 That's a great question.

00:39:34.440 I would say that,

00:39:35.780 like,

00:39:38.100 let's sidestep education

00:39:39.420 for just a moment

00:39:40.120 to give another

00:39:40.680 industry equivalent.

00:39:41.840 The same argument

00:39:42.600 is said for

00:39:43.600 having the government

00:39:44.700 involved in social

00:39:45.940 welfare benefits,

00:39:46.940 a social safety net.

00:39:47.960 Hey,

00:39:48.120 if we don't provide

00:39:49.060 or mandate insurance,

00:39:50.500 if we don't have

00:39:51.340 these welfare programs,

00:39:52.480 there's going to be people

00:39:53.100 dying on the street

00:39:53.780 and what you actually

00:39:54.440 find from history

00:39:55.280 is that prior to

00:39:56.680 the welfare state

00:39:57.500 being created in America,

00:39:58.740 you had this flourishing

00:40:00.520 of voluntary associations,

00:40:02.400 organizations,

00:40:03.300 charitable institutions

00:40:04.200 that would come together,

00:40:05.840 marshal the resources

00:40:06.780 and cater to those people.

00:40:08.240 You had private hospitals

00:40:09.840 back when they didn't

00:40:10.820 have all this regulation

00:40:11.780 making it difficult

00:40:12.640 to do so,

00:40:13.280 that we're giving out

00:40:14.320 discounted or free health care.

00:40:15.700 You didn't really have

00:40:16.400 this massive people

00:40:17.680 dying in the streets.

00:40:18.760 So going back to education,

00:40:19.740 I would say that

00:40:20.920 if we just,

00:40:21.480 you know,

00:40:21.760 snapped our fingers

00:40:22.440 and got rid of the government

00:40:23.760 out of education,

00:40:25.220 what that would open up,

00:40:26.280 I think,

00:40:26.580 is the marketplace

00:40:27.380 of not only private

00:40:29.200 market actors

00:40:30.420 who could then have

00:40:31.480 maybe schools

00:40:33.320 just dedicated

00:40:34.080 for people

00:40:34.540 with certain disabilities

00:40:35.300 as there exists now

00:40:36.520 for people who are

00:40:37.080 willing to pay for them.

00:40:37.880 These things already exist.

00:40:39.340 But I think what you would do

00:40:40.320 is you would reopen

00:40:41.920 the philanthropic

00:40:43.300 charitable avenue.

00:40:44.260 Right now,

00:40:45.280 we're socializing

00:40:46.500 the cost of education

00:40:47.540 for these types

00:40:48.340 of disabled people

00:40:49.240 across all taxpayers.

00:40:50.580 And everyone is paying

00:40:51.680 for it and,

00:40:52.440 you know,

00:40:53.040 paying a lot for it.

00:40:53.900 If we were to pull that away

00:40:55.580 and no longer use taxes

00:40:56.700 to do so,

00:40:57.540 I think there could be

00:40:58.520 a very real avenue

00:41:00.100 for philanthropy,

00:41:01.520 for charity,

00:41:02.080 because right now,

00:41:03.420 no one needs to.

00:41:04.200 The government's

00:41:04.720 taking care of it.

00:41:05.540 It's mandated.

00:41:06.320 It's forced on anyone.

00:41:07.360 But if it became

00:41:07.980 a true need,

00:41:08.760 if we got the government out

00:41:09.860 and like welfare used to be,

00:41:12.460 like I'll call it

00:41:13.140 education welfare would be

00:41:14.780 for people who have

00:41:15.700 higher needs,

00:41:16.560 I think you'd see

00:41:17.480 a number of things.

00:41:18.480 It could be direct philanthropy.

00:41:19.920 It could be kind of

00:41:20.940 the more corporate philanthropy

00:41:22.140 where you have these schools

00:41:23.140 saying,

00:41:23.540 hey,

00:41:23.580 we're going to give

00:41:24.040 discounted tuition

00:41:24.920 for people who are low income

00:41:26.820 so that we can serve

00:41:27.860 that type of community.

00:41:29.500 I think you'd have

00:41:30.400 schools dedicating

00:41:32.080 particular programs

00:41:33.220 to,

00:41:33.840 you know,

00:41:34.540 hey,

00:41:34.700 I'm dyslexic

00:41:35.480 or I've got these issues,

00:41:36.800 whatever the disability is.

00:41:38.140 I have a lot of faith

00:41:40.140 in the market.

00:41:41.220 And when you look

00:41:42.140 at how the market existed,

00:41:43.420 especially in early America,

00:41:44.740 when Alexis de Tocqueville came,

00:41:46.480 he wrote Democracy in America.

00:41:47.720 He's observing

00:41:48.420 this kind of landscape.

00:41:49.880 And he talked about

00:41:51.260 the term he used

00:41:52.280 was mediating institutions.

00:41:53.740 He said in Europe,

00:41:55.060 anytime there's a problem,

00:41:56.280 people raise their hand

00:41:57.200 and go to the local minister,

00:41:58.560 which is like

00:41:59.180 a public servant politician,

00:42:01.000 basically,

00:42:01.740 like,

00:42:02.060 hey,

00:42:02.200 I have this problem.

00:42:03.100 I need your help.

00:42:03.780 And that is the kind of

00:42:04.820 default way

00:42:05.680 that people try

00:42:06.320 and solve problems

00:42:07.020 is through the government

00:42:07.740 in Europe.

00:42:08.180 By contrast,

00:42:09.240 he said in America,

00:42:10.160 they have mediating institutions.

00:42:12.140 And the moment

00:42:12.540 there's a need,

00:42:13.540 someone steps up

00:42:14.380 to create this association

00:42:15.920 and induce people

00:42:16.840 to voluntarily contribute

00:42:18.100 to remedy,

00:42:19.280 you know,

00:42:19.700 the problem.

00:42:20.600 You talked earlier,

00:42:21.520 we were talking about

00:42:22.460 how this is a cultural issue

00:42:24.380 for education

00:42:25.580 and families need

00:42:26.540 to kind of reassert themselves

00:42:28.300 and reclaim that role.

00:42:30.060 And I think it's the same

00:42:30.920 with our communities.

00:42:31.960 We have been neutered

00:42:33.900 in our kind of

00:42:35.220 community relationships.

00:42:37.060 We just now,

00:42:37.860 government does everything,

00:42:39.000 taxes pay for everything.

00:42:40.460 I have faith in the market,

00:42:41.780 but it is going to require

00:42:42.960 us getting the government

00:42:44.640 out of the way

00:42:45.280 so that the market

00:42:46.000 does have a reason

00:42:46.880 to engage,

00:42:47.640 does have a reason

00:42:48.360 to go voluntarily

00:42:49.220 try and persuade people

00:42:50.380 to provide the means

00:42:51.620 to support things.

00:42:52.760 A lot of people

00:42:53.420 have fear about that

00:42:54.460 and it's easy

00:42:55.140 to turn to government

00:42:55.880 and say,

00:42:56.240 hey,

00:42:56.320 just have a government program

00:42:57.440 and then,

00:42:58.000 you know,

00:42:58.620 problem solved.

00:42:59.560 But the government

00:43:00.280 is a disease

00:43:00.940 masquerading

00:43:01.680 as its own cure.

00:43:03.560 It claims to solve

00:43:04.560 these problems,

00:43:05.240 but it often

00:43:05.720 doesn't address the problem

00:43:07.280 and creates new ones.

00:43:08.800 I think we've got to

00:43:09.500 turn it back to the market.

00:43:10.540 I have confidence

00:43:11.220 that as people,

00:43:12.680 communities,

00:43:13.320 churches,

00:43:14.260 right,

00:43:14.500 we can come together

00:43:15.400 and provide for those

00:43:16.900 who have particular needs.

00:43:18.520 I don't think we'd have

00:43:19.300 ever any outcome

00:43:20.400 of, you know,

00:43:21.220 kids just languishing

00:43:22.180 in neglect

00:43:22.740 because it would be

00:43:23.740 too expensive

00:43:24.340 to offer them

00:43:25.100 educational services.

00:43:26.340 I think there'd be

00:43:26.820 a lot of companies

00:43:27.520 who'd want to look good

00:43:28.520 in the market

00:43:29.320 and say,

00:43:29.900 oh, hey,

00:43:30.640 you know,

00:43:31.040 for every student

00:43:32.160 that, you know,

00:43:33.160 enrolls in our school,

00:43:34.180 we dedicate a portion

00:43:35.120 of profits

00:43:35.700 to this, you know,

00:43:36.900 charitable foundation

00:43:37.720 that helps kids

00:43:38.620 with special,

00:43:39.220 like, there'd be

00:43:39.780 a lot of things

00:43:40.500 like that.

00:43:41.160 We could be very creative,

00:43:42.300 the market would respond

00:43:43.280 and so I would rather say

00:43:44.600 let's step forward

00:43:45.320 with faith

00:43:45.920 and return things

00:43:47.000 to the market,

00:43:47.680 return things

00:43:48.260 to communities,

00:43:49.440 knowing that as

00:43:50.580 it used to be

00:43:51.540 in America,

00:43:52.160 we can restore

00:43:52.940 that today,

00:43:54.020 get the government

00:43:54.500 out of the way,

00:43:55.260 improve outcomes,

00:43:56.620 decrease costs.

00:43:57.920 I think we'd be

00:43:58.440 very surprised

00:43:59.140 at what we could do

00:44:00.080 with just a little bit

00:44:01.020 of resources

00:44:01.540 to make it go a long way

00:44:02.700 and serve a lot of kids.

00:44:04.380 I guess I'm a little

00:44:05.220 more concerned

00:44:05.740 than you are

00:44:06.220 on this point

00:44:06.980 because de Tocqueville

00:44:08.260 also talked about

00:44:09.600 the problem of scale

00:44:12.300 when it comes to

00:44:13.020 republics and communities

00:44:14.000 and that if we grew

00:44:15.560 beyond certain sizes,

00:44:16.660 this would break down

00:44:17.920 the very,

00:44:19.220 he called them

00:44:19.780 free institutions,

00:44:20.660 that you would have

00:44:22.140 these mediating institutions

00:44:23.380 that made the state

00:44:24.560 unnecessary.

00:44:25.220 he points out

00:44:26.860 that individualism

00:44:28.060 is actually a bane

00:44:29.440 on community formation

00:44:31.260 and he points out

00:44:32.040 that the American

00:44:32.940 solution to individualism

00:44:34.580 was free associations,

00:44:36.220 that their desire

00:44:37.400 for liberty

00:44:37.940 and to be liberated

00:44:39.280 from these particular rules

00:44:41.840 coming from the government

00:44:42.800 compelled them

00:44:43.560 to take action

00:44:44.320 inside their communities,

00:44:45.280 but this only worked

00:44:46.440 because of the size

00:44:47.680 of the communities

00:44:48.560 and I think,

00:44:49.500 you know,

00:44:49.680 while I'm a big fan

00:44:50.560 of the market

00:44:51.520 in many areas,

00:44:52.300 one of the problems

00:44:52.980 the market has

00:44:53.760 really presented for us

00:44:55.300 is its tendency

00:44:56.420 to destroy communities,

00:44:57.600 to dissolve bonds

00:44:58.700 and to make it,

00:44:59.680 you know,

00:44:59.940 people are more transient,

00:45:01.140 they're less likely

00:45:01.760 to maintain presence

00:45:03.900 in a community,

00:45:05.220 you know,

00:45:05.520 mothers have to go to work

00:45:07.100 in order to,

00:45:07.960 you know,

00:45:08.180 fulfill market responsibilities,

00:45:09.500 there's no longer

00:45:10.340 a cultural dedication

00:45:12.000 to a particular way

00:45:13.760 of structuring family

00:45:15.120 and raising of children.

00:45:17.320 You know,

00:45:17.520 these are challenges

00:45:18.740 that, you know,

00:45:19.400 the market fixes

00:45:20.260 many things,

00:45:21.240 but it doesn't,

00:45:21.940 it can prevent socials

00:45:24.380 and this is something

00:45:24.920 that de Tocqueville himself

00:45:25.900 noted inside of democracy

00:45:27.720 in America.

00:45:28.440 So I guess my main concern

00:45:30.500 and don't get me wrong,

00:45:31.400 like the government

00:45:31.880 obviously has a huge role

00:45:33.180 in this,

00:45:33.540 the destruction

00:45:34.000 of free association

00:45:35.380 has itself made communities

00:45:37.160 far weaker

00:45:37.740 and therefore less likely

00:45:38.800 to step up

00:45:40.060 and fulfill the roles

00:45:40.840 that you're talking about here.

00:45:42.280 But I guess I just,

00:45:43.160 I am 100% for,

00:45:45.040 you know,

00:45:45.140 I wrote a book

00:45:45.700 called The Total State

00:45:46.460 about the need

00:45:47.120 to create the very institutions

00:45:49.480 you're talking about

00:45:50.520 to transition us

00:45:51.820 away from the centralization

00:45:53.020 of government power.

00:45:54.240 But I do think,

00:45:55.080 I'm not sure

00:45:55.780 that we would just

00:45:56.460 have this immediately,

00:45:58.300 have this void filled

00:45:59.800 in the way

00:46:00.160 that you're talking about

00:46:01.180 because we have weakened

00:46:02.800 the communal bonds

00:46:03.860 and expectations

00:46:04.640 across our nation.

00:46:06.080 On that,

00:46:06.740 I completely agree with you

00:46:07.780 and by no means

00:46:08.460 was I suggesting

00:46:09.200 this should be immediate.

00:46:10.200 I guess I did say

00:46:10.820 if I were to snap my fingers,

00:46:12.160 but I probably was inferring

00:46:14.380 a little too much

00:46:15.080 that the market

00:46:15.660 would fill that void

00:46:16.660 within, you know,

00:46:17.440 30 days.

00:46:18.580 Like with the repeal

00:46:19.700 of the Department of Education

00:46:20.820 requiring a little bit

00:46:21.860 of time to transition out,

00:46:23.080 we would have to transition

00:46:23.960 back into restoring

00:46:25.620 those community bonds.

00:46:26.840 Social fabric

00:46:27.500 is basically dissolved.

00:46:29.300 The bonds are we.

00:46:30.120 I don't attribute that

00:46:30.720 to the market.

00:46:31.340 I don't think the market

00:46:31.980 is the reason

00:46:32.600 why women are working.

00:46:33.880 I think it's the heavy taxation

00:46:35.180 and the inflation

00:46:36.060 of our money

00:46:36.640 that erodes family wealth

00:46:38.060 and requires parents

00:46:39.580 to seek two incomes

00:46:40.580 just to be able to survive.

00:46:41.920 I think the market

00:46:42.540 actually decreases costs

00:46:44.080 and increases opportunity.

00:46:45.700 And so I see the government

00:46:46.860 as kind of the purveyor

00:46:48.320 of these problems.

00:46:49.780 But I can agree

00:46:50.700 that getting there,

00:46:52.820 getting to where

00:46:53.320 I think we agree

00:46:53.960 is kind of the shared destination

00:46:55.160 of rebuilding

00:46:56.000 those communities,

00:46:57.480 localizing things a lot more

00:46:59.320 so it's not just

00:47:00.020 one behemoth,

00:47:01.240 one size fits all

00:47:02.660 Department of Education

00:47:03.920 trying to manage everything,

00:47:05.240 but kind of these locales

00:47:06.460 that are self-governing

00:47:07.360 and self-supporting.

00:47:08.620 Getting there

00:47:09.220 would require a transition.

00:47:10.680 But we know this quote

00:47:11.880 is often used,

00:47:12.960 politics is downstream

00:47:13.900 of culture, right?

00:47:15.880 And so for those of us

00:47:16.940 engaged in the political battles,

00:47:18.220 trying to change laws

00:47:19.080 and everything,

00:47:19.640 the culture is the tail wag

00:47:21.020 and the dog.

00:47:21.680 And we have to restore culture.

00:47:23.300 We have to improve culture

00:47:24.220 if we want better

00:47:24.880 political outcomes.

00:47:26.000 But I think the quote

00:47:26.820 misses something.

00:47:28.120 Yes, politics is downstream

00:47:29.560 of culture,

00:47:30.840 but culture is downstream

00:47:31.940 of the family.

00:47:32.980 And this is also where

00:47:33.920 I think our movement fails

00:47:34.920 in a lot of respects.

00:47:35.780 When we talk about

00:47:36.640 these political

00:47:37.220 and economic ideas,

00:47:38.220 we tend to wait

00:47:39.160 to talk to others

00:47:40.240 until they're adults.

00:47:41.300 We don't really engage

00:47:42.200 the rising generation

00:47:43.180 in these ideas.

00:47:44.140 We consider,

00:47:44.840 oh, these are adult issues.

00:47:46.320 In fact,

00:47:46.600 we even got flack

00:47:47.500 a decade ago

00:47:48.220 when we started

00:47:48.780 the Tuttle Twins

00:47:49.380 from some conservatives

00:47:50.760 and libertarians

00:47:51.420 that are like,

00:47:51.860 ah, let kids be kids.

00:47:53.560 You know,

00:47:54.180 when my son's

00:47:54.960 an 18-year-old voter,

00:47:56.280 then I'll talk to him

00:47:57.040 about these things.

00:47:57.700 Not realizing

00:47:58.700 that all the while

00:48:00.660 their children

00:48:01.240 are being exposed

00:48:01.960 to all kinds

00:48:02.880 of adversarial ideas

00:48:04.360 and problematic things.

00:48:06.140 And if they don't

00:48:06.680 give their children

00:48:07.260 that foundation,

00:48:08.380 that grounding

00:48:08.980 to kind of challenge

00:48:09.920 those ideas

00:48:10.520 and test them out,

00:48:11.700 they're sending

00:48:12.220 their kids out

00:48:12.880 as a sponge

00:48:13.600 to be indoctrinated

00:48:14.640 effectively by people

00:48:15.740 who don't share

00:48:16.340 their values.

00:48:17.080 So, I mean,

00:48:18.300 our whole purpose,

00:48:19.360 frankly,

00:48:19.620 with the Tuttle Twins

00:48:20.280 is to help parents

00:48:21.180 see like politics

00:48:22.880 is downstream of culture,

00:48:23.900 culture is downstream

00:48:24.560 of family.

00:48:25.220 You as a family

00:48:25.940 need to step

00:48:26.520 into the breach

00:48:27.000 and start to rebuild

00:48:27.800 that social fabric

00:48:28.600 even within the four walls

00:48:30.320 of your own home.

00:48:31.560 Sounds daunting.

00:48:32.800 Whether you're homeschooled

00:48:33.660 or not doesn't matter.

00:48:34.880 Just read some stories together.

00:48:36.320 Let's just get started

00:48:37.180 having dinner table discussions

00:48:38.720 about important ideas.

00:48:40.680 Let's start to learn

00:48:41.480 some of these concepts

00:48:42.340 so that when we're listening

00:48:43.600 to the news on the radio

00:48:44.820 or we're at that,

00:48:46.040 you know,

00:48:46.360 town hall meeting

00:48:47.100 or whatever

00:48:47.460 and we hear these ideas,

00:48:48.440 we can start to evaluate them

00:48:49.840 or we can discuss them.

00:48:51.060 We can engage

00:48:52.140 with these ideas.

00:48:53.340 That's what we're after

00:48:54.340 is trying to push

00:48:55.140 these ideas down

00:48:56.180 to a family

00:48:57.920 and down to a community level

00:48:59.780 where hopefully over time

00:49:00.900 we can rebuild

00:49:01.480 that social fabric,

00:49:02.700 have some bottom-up solutions

00:49:04.040 rather than consistently

00:49:05.480 having the feds

00:49:06.320 pushing top-down solutions

00:49:08.260 instead.

00:49:09.860 Yeah, I think that ultimately

00:49:11.200 both culture and politics

00:49:12.720 are downstream from power

00:49:14.040 when you have

00:49:14.480 a centralized system.

00:49:15.860 When you have

00:49:16.440 a centralized system

00:49:17.220 that is informing

00:49:17.980 all of your cultural

00:49:19.220 taste-making apparatus,

00:49:21.180 then the cultural hegemony

00:49:22.360 that it enforces

00:49:23.280 will then filter down

00:49:25.140 into your politics

00:49:25.900 and everything else.

00:49:27.000 And so that's why

00:49:27.900 I think disassembling

00:49:29.300 something like

00:49:30.040 the Department of Education

00:49:30.820 is so critical

00:49:31.680 because it is

00:49:32.640 that centralizing force

00:49:33.760 that then dictates

00:49:34.640 itself to culture.

00:49:35.800 If they're the ones

00:49:36.680 delivering the messages

00:49:37.600 and the values

00:49:38.360 that every child

00:49:39.380 in the United States

00:49:40.280 simultaneously receives,

00:49:41.580 they will dictate the culture

00:49:42.860 and then therefore

00:49:43.500 will dictate politics.

00:49:45.100 So I think you're right

00:49:46.120 that you have to decentralize

00:49:48.020 especially something

00:49:49.180 like education.

00:49:50.560 Children should be catechized

00:49:51.760 by their churches

00:49:52.660 and their parents,

00:49:53.480 not by a government employee

00:49:55.680 who's been indoctrinated

00:49:56.980 in DEI

00:49:58.680 for the last

00:49:59.240 four to eight years.

00:50:00.720 And I think that

00:50:01.540 will then inform the culture

00:50:02.840 and allow it to be organic

00:50:04.040 rather than something

00:50:04.840 that's dictated

00:50:05.860 from these centralizing institutions.

00:50:08.360 All right, guys.

00:50:08.920 Well, we're going to go ahead

00:50:09.700 and wrap this up.

00:50:10.560 Let me double check.

00:50:11.320 I don't think we've got

00:50:11.820 any questions this time around.

00:50:13.320 Yep.

00:50:13.720 All right.

00:50:14.160 So before we go,

00:50:15.940 Connor,

00:50:16.400 is there anything

00:50:17.260 you want to direct people to,

00:50:18.700 something you want them

00:50:19.240 to check out?

00:50:20.140 Obviously, you have the book,

00:50:21.200 all kinds of other resources,

00:50:22.420 but where would you like people

00:50:23.360 to go to see more of your work?

00:50:24.960 Yeah, so you can find

00:50:25.660 everything Tuttle Twins

00:50:26.560 related at tuttletwins.com.

00:50:28.560 We also have an entrepreneurship

00:50:29.700 to help young kids

00:50:30.960 launch businesses.

00:50:31.780 That's at childrensentrepreneurmarket.com.

00:50:35.520 You can find out about me

00:50:36.760 and all these projects

00:50:37.640 and more at conorboyack.com

00:50:39.720 and all over social media.

00:50:42.300 Excellent.

00:50:42.900 All right, guys.

00:50:43.720 Remember, if it's your first time

00:50:45.540 joining me on the YouTube channel,

00:50:47.280 you need to go ahead

00:50:48.160 and subscribe.

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00:50:50.160 turn on the bell notification

00:50:51.600 so you can catch these streams

00:50:52.820 when they go live.

00:50:54.120 And if you would like

00:50:55.100 to get these broadcasts

00:50:56.200 as podcasts,

00:50:56.800 you need to subscribe

00:50:57.740 to the Oren McIntyre Show

00:50:59.120 on your favorite podcast platform.

00:51:00.800 When you do leave a rating

00:51:02.060 or a review,

00:51:03.000 it really helps

00:51:03.780 with the algorithm magic.

00:51:05.480 If you want to pick up

00:51:06.520 something for your friends

00:51:08.340 or your family for Christmas,

00:51:09.980 remember my book,

00:51:10.720 The Total State,

00:51:11.660 is available.

00:51:12.500 You can pick up

00:51:13.000 some of Connor's books

00:51:13.900 for your kids.

00:51:15.160 And of course,

00:51:16.040 if you would like

00:51:16.760 to get some of the new merch

00:51:17.720 in the merch store,

00:51:18.880 you can head over

00:51:19.840 to shopblazemedia.com

00:51:21.380 and check out

00:51:21.820 the Oren McIntyre merch as well.

00:51:23.720 Thank you, everybody,

00:51:24.240 for watching.

00:51:24.900 And as always,

00:51:25.640 I will talk to you next time.

00:51:27.320 I will talk to you next time.

00:51:33.060 I'm out.

00:51:33.960 And as always,

00:51:35.540 I'll see you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - December 11, 2024

Dismantling the Department of Education ｜ Guest： Connor Boyack ｜ 12⧸11⧸24

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