The Auron MacIntyre Show - Does a Christian Have to Forgive His Son's Murderer？

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00:00:17.160 Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I am Oren McIntyre. A terrible

00:00:24.240 tragedy unfolded recently. There was a young student athlete at a track meet in Texas. Reports

00:00:31.240 say that he confronted a student who was sitting in the wrong area, or at least he believed to be

00:00:37.220 sitting in the wrong area. Hard to know exactly what happened in that moment. What we do know

00:00:43.140 ultimately is that the student refused to move and then it ended up producing a knife and stabbing

00:00:49.240 him to death. Now, ultimately this has erupted online for a couple of reasons. We've seen

00:00:56.600 killings before, but this one has captured the national consciousness. A, because it's an example

00:01:03.340 of a black alleged killer stabbing a white student. And many people have noted that we did not get the

00:01:10.880 level of outrage and media outrage and protests that we would usually receive if we had those roles

00:01:17.620 reversed. But that's a constant theme that unfortunately continues to persist throughout

00:01:22.180 conservative media. The second part of this has been that the boy's father, the boy that was killed,

00:01:29.560 has come out and asked for forgiveness or expressed his public forgiveness of the killer. Now, that's

00:01:36.640 complicated for many reasons because the man has invoked his Christian faith. But a lot of people have

00:01:42.580 pointed to the fact that the alleged killer is not repentant, has not asked for forgiveness. And so

00:01:49.460 therefore, there seems to be a problem, a misunderstanding of what forgiveness is. This

00:01:54.900 has exploded into a much larger debate online, both about the possible problem with black crime in the

00:02:01.880 United States, the disproportional statistics that represent the amount of times that black Americans

00:02:07.980 kill white Americans, but it has also turned into a debate about Christianity. What is Christian

00:02:14.020 forgiveness? What is demanded of the Christian? Are you as a Christian required to forgive a person who

00:02:21.220 kills your son, even if they don't ask for it? We're going to be diving into that today, guys. But before

00:02:27.620 we do, let's talk about today's sponsor. Hey, everybody. This episode of the Oren McIntyre Show is

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00:03:26.120 that's at W-I-L-L-H-I-L-D on X. So like I said, this young man, Austin Metcalf, is now dead. He's one of his

00:03:38.500 twin brothers, and his twin brother was with him when he died. He was holding him as he died. The

00:03:46.320 alleged killer's name is Carmelo Anthony. Now I say alleged killer, from what I understand,

00:03:52.440 he has said that he did stab Austin Metcalf, but that it was in self-defense. So he has said he was

00:04:01.900 there. He's not refuting the fact that he was involved in the stabbing, but he is claiming

00:04:07.080 self-defense, to the best of my knowledge, at this time. And again, we can not have a perfect

00:04:13.900 understanding of what went down between these two. It could have been a more involved altercation,

00:04:20.420 but ultimately what we do know is Carmelo escalated that altercation by producing a knife

00:04:26.400 and stabbing Austin Metcalf to death. Now, like I said, there's been two controversies that have

00:04:34.080 exploded out of this, and I want to address both of them. And I think it's easier to address,

00:04:38.860 ironically, the race part of this first. A lot of people have immediately jumped to kind of this

00:04:47.860 defense of Carmelo Anthony just because, you know, he's black. And then they said, oh, well,

00:04:54.960 you know, obviously the system is trying to get him these kind of things. The family of Carmelo has

00:05:01.040 already, sorry, it's Carmelo Anthony, and Anthony Carmelo keeps saying it backwards. But his family

00:05:07.000 has jumped to raise funds on GoFundMe. He's already raised $160,000 last time I checked for his defense.

00:05:17.560 Now, interestingly, there's obviously the radical double standard of the fact that GoFundMe

00:05:23.720 specifically would not allow Kyle Rittenhouse to receive funds on their platform, even though a large

00:05:30.520 number of people wanted to support him specifically because they said you cannot fund a criminal on

00:05:37.760 this. We do not support the defense of criminal activity. Obviously, that cannot possibly be true

00:05:43.820 if they are allowing the fundraising of Carmelo Anthony. Carmelo Anthony is a criminal at this

00:05:49.440 point to the same degree that Carl Rittenhouse is. And the fact is that neither of them have been

00:05:53.440 convicted. So it's all at that time. Kyle Rittenhouse had not convicted and would not be convicted.

00:05:58.680 Carmelo Anthony has not received his day in court, but has not yet been convicted. But both of them

00:06:04.140 existed when they were fundraising in a state of accused but not convicted. However, because of the

00:06:11.520 political leanings and racial dynamic with Kyle Rittenhouse, he was not allowed to have fundraising

00:06:17.660 on that website. But Anthony's family is allowed to already have raised $160,000. Now, we'll get into

00:06:25.080 another problem because obviously that tells us something about whether or not there has been any

00:06:29.940 repentance over what has happened. But there's already this dynamic of the system is lined up to

00:06:38.040 defend this guy who stabbed this young man at this track meet because the person he stabbed was white

00:06:44.560 and he's black. And Carmelo Anthony is allowed to raise money on a platform that a white person

00:06:51.220 would not be allowed to raise money for the same cause. As we have seen, the evidence is there for

00:06:56.780 us. So a lot of people, including Matt Walsh of the Daily Wire, came out and pointed out that the

00:07:03.560 violence of blacks against whites in the United States is very disproportionate. And these are just

00:07:10.480 basic crime statistics. This is not anything new to Matt Walsh. It's edgy because Matt Walsh is a

00:07:17.920 mainstream figure, and they usually shy away from this fact. But this fact has been well known. Steve

00:07:23.860 Saylor, of course, is famous for noticing this. He's been on this show to discuss this very topic.

00:07:31.420 And so the fact that there seemed to be this moment where mainstream political figures were willing to

00:07:37.300 discuss the disparity between violence between black Americans and white Americans was pretty

00:07:43.640 significant. And Walsh just pointed out the basics. I want you to remember, of course, that all murder

00:07:49.840 is more likely between the same race. So white people kill white people for the most part, and black people

00:07:56.500 kill black people for the most part, and Hispanic people kill Hispanic people, etc., etc. You're far more

00:08:02.660 likely to die from someone of your own race than someone of another race. However, when it comes

00:08:08.800 to interracial violence, do black people kill white people more often, or do white people kill black

00:08:14.600 people more often? It is overwhelmingly black people that kill white people more often, many times over.

00:08:21.560 That's just a statistical fact. However, this was immediately noted as racist. This is unacceptable.

00:08:28.180 We can't talk about this. We can't recognize this truth. Heresy. How dare you? But of course,

00:08:34.520 this is just basic FBI crime statistics. You can see this repeatedly across sources and years.

00:08:40.280 There's nothing new about this. And this is well known everywhere where it is not heavily suppressed.

00:08:46.800 You know, this is just the fact of life in the United States. Black, the black population,

00:08:52.320 specifically black males, do a large, large, large percentage more crime than, at least violent

00:08:59.960 crime, than other demographics in the United States per capita. Now, again, that doesn't mean

00:09:05.840 that other races don't do crime. There are plenty of white people do crime, you know, but ultimately,

00:09:11.660 there's an obvious disparity here. And it doesn't make it acceptable for anyone to do crime.

00:09:17.640 But pretending that the disparity doesn't exist is a problem. Because when we don't notice,

00:09:23.560 we're not allowed to notice reality, we have a very hard time finding solutions. And my colleague,

00:09:29.140 Jason Whitlock, to his great credit, somebody who is usually very honest on these issues and

00:09:35.080 continued to be honest on these issues, pointed out that Matt Walsh was, of course, correct. He said,

00:09:40.420 yes, these statistics are real. These statistics are true. And black America, you know,

00:09:45.980 and he said, we, because he's part of black America, he said, we're, you know, we're not

00:09:49.000 doing ourselves any favors by ignoring this problem. And Jason, being a Christian, says the

00:09:55.400 only hope for redeeming the situation in which black America and the broken families that often

00:10:01.200 result in producing, you know, violent adult males really can only be solved by a return to Christ and

00:10:10.120 an understanding that a radical change has to take place inside the black community and to deal with

00:10:14.880 its culture. Now, I'll let Jason Whitlock speak on that in more depth, obviously, someone who's a

00:10:19.700 little more qualified to do so. However, it's very encouraging to see Jason willing to grapple with

00:10:25.760 the basic facts, being willing to acknowledge them saying, you shouldn't be silencing Matt Walsh,

00:10:30.740 you shouldn't be crying about Matt Walsh, you shouldn't be trying to shout him down, you should be

00:10:35.460 asking, why is this a problem? Why is this happening? If you really cared about the violence, if you really

00:10:41.360 cared about solving this problem, if you had any interest in keeping black men from going to prison,

00:10:47.200 the first thing you should probably do is address why violence occurs disproportionately from them.

00:10:53.040 And so, yeah, again, much to Jason's credit, he's willing to take that debate head on. Now, one of the

00:10:59.380 things that exacerbated that debate was the fact that the father of Austin Metcalf, whose name I believe

00:11:06.020 is Jeff, has been on a lot of programs, and I want to be really clear, because what I'm going to do

00:11:13.880 here is I'm going to talk about a very, very difficult situation, just an indescribably difficult

00:11:20.880 situation. Losing a child in any way is horrific. Losing a child the way that Jeff Metcalf lost a child

00:11:31.600 is another world. Like, his twin brother literally held him as he bled out in high school bleachers.

00:11:41.140 That is something that nobody comes back from easily, and nobody knows how they're going to

00:11:48.120 respond to in the moment. So please understand that while I am going to be discussing Jeff Metcalf's

00:11:55.060 response to this tragedy, I really am not attacking Jeff Metcalf. I don't agree with everything he's

00:12:03.520 done, but it is not, I don't believe it's a deficiency in his character. I don't believe that you can look

00:12:10.380 at a man who is suffering that kind of loss and say, oh, how could you possibly do this? It's a horrific

00:12:18.820 tragedy, and none of us know how we're going to respond in that moment. And Jeff Metcalf seems like

00:12:25.240 a really good man who raised a good family, really cares about his faith, and is doing his best in a

00:12:32.200 very difficult situation. And as somebody who lost a wife young, who has dealt with tragedy, let me tell

00:12:41.400 you, you really just don't know. You don't know until you've been there, and you don't know what

00:12:46.340 you'll do until you've been there. And that doesn't mean every response is okay, but you have to give

00:12:52.000 people grace. You have to give people understanding. So again, I just want to make it clear before we

00:12:56.960 dive deeper into this episode that Jeff Metcalf seems like a very good man trying to do his best.

00:13:05.560 And while I'm going to talk about some of the things, some mistakes I think he made, this is not an

00:13:09.980 attack on him. This is not an attack on his character. This is not an attack on his family or

00:13:16.220 his faith. This is simply me trying to sort through a very difficult situation and really reach the

00:13:24.340 correct conclusion. So one of the things that Jeff Metcalf said is, well, I don't want you to turn

00:13:31.280 this into a political thing or a race thing. And this is something we've heard from other victims of

00:13:39.220 these kinds of tragedies. And on one hand, it is very understandable because the loss here is of this

00:13:47.880 man's son. The tragedy, the terrible aspect of this is that Austin Metcalf is dead, that he will not grow

00:13:56.040 up, that he will not have a family, that he will not make his mark on the world. And so that is the

00:14:02.900 biggest tragedy here. And when your son dies, I'd imagine you want it to be about him. You want it

00:14:10.160 to be about who he was and what he could have been and what your family's going through and not about

00:14:15.640 everybody's political agenda. That's not what you want him to be remembered as, a political pawn for

00:14:21.520 people. And so I totally understand what he is saying there and why he would feel that way.

00:14:28.340 That said, you cannot dislodge this issue from the larger context in which it exists. The larger

00:14:38.200 political and cultural context in which it exists. You simply have to notice. You can't not notice what

00:14:46.640 is going on here. And if you don't notice it, other guys like Austin won't grow up. They won't make it.

00:14:54.920 So we can't just ignore that. So again, all respect to Jeff. I totally understand where he's coming

00:15:01.440 from, but I'm sorry. We have to talk about it in this context. It simply cannot be ignored. And

00:15:07.680 I'm also concerned that the need to not talk about it in this context is motivated in some ways by a

00:15:16.720 desire to not be seen as racist. Again, I don't know that for sure, but we see a lot of this. I want

00:15:24.840 you to remember that the Department of Justice has a community relations service that specifically

00:15:29.400 goes out and speaks with families who are the subject of tragedies that might be racially

00:15:36.880 incendiary and goes out and tries to quiet them down. Now, I don't know if Jeff got that. This is

00:15:42.600 probably not given the speed at which he kind of had these interviews before or after the event,

00:15:51.600 but they, but he might have, I don't know. The point is that that division exists and they do go

00:15:56.980 out and have those discussions. And how do we say probably influence the response of the families

00:16:05.860 that step out in that situation? Uh, that, you know, if you're a government force, you want to keep

00:16:11.580 things copacetic. You want people getting excited. You don't want to inflame any tensions. And so you

00:16:17.640 often can imagine that there is an influence, a desire by government agents to make sure that

00:16:23.560 everything stays calm and under control. Again, no idea if that is what occurred in this case,

00:16:29.540 but I know it has occurred in other cases. And this reminds me to some extent of a case that

00:16:35.640 occurred a number of years ago. Uh, there was a child, uh, Cannon Hennett, uh, and, uh, he, uh,

00:16:43.340 had ridden up, uh, on his bike, uh, and ended up getting shot in the face, uh, and, uh, by a black

00:16:51.060 man. And the assertion from the black man was that Cannon Hennett had called him a racial slur.

00:16:57.620 Now he was a young boy, so that's probably unlikely, but even if it was obviously, uh, the uttering of a

00:17:05.760 racial slur by, you know, uh, someone under 10 years old, uh, does not mean you get to blow them away.

00:17:13.340 It doesn't mean that you get to stab them in the chest. So even if somebody like Austin or Cannon

00:17:19.160 Hennett said something inflammatory, which as far as I know, isn't the case with either, but again,

00:17:25.700 I wasn't there, so I, I don't have any gospel truth on that. But ultimately, even if that was true,

00:17:30.980 that is not some kind of path to suddenly break out in horrific violence and murder someone.

00:17:36.880 And if you think it is, then you have a very serious problem. And if you think that gives an

00:17:42.520 entire group of people, a free pass to murder an entire, another group of people, then you have

00:17:49.800 imbibed a horrific, uh, hateful religion that will just dominate everything around our society.

00:17:58.080 And, uh, you know, when this occurred, the first thing that happened was that Cannon Hennett's mother

00:18:05.700 came out and said, my son wasn't racist. That was the most important thing to her was to rush out

00:18:13.620 there and say, my son wasn't racist. And that just tore me apart. When that happened, that absolutely

00:18:22.420 tore me apart that in that moment of just deep human loss, the first response was not, I missed

00:18:31.700 my son. What a tragedy. I want justice for his death. The first response was my son is not a racist and

00:18:39.460 everybody needs to know because the worst thing in the world you could be is not dead. The worst thing

00:18:45.420 that you could be is racist. Better to die a non-racist than to have said a mean word to the wrong person.

00:18:53.780 Horrible. That is a horrible way to raise children. That is a horrible way to exist as a society.

00:19:04.020 That is a horrible way to treat parents, to expect them to run out and mug for the camera. But no,

00:19:11.220 no, no, no, no. Just understand my, my son might be dead. He might be the victim of a terrible murder,

00:19:17.380 but he wasn't racist. And I need you to know that. That is disgusting. And again,

00:19:24.740 I cannot speak to Jeff's motives here, but in the climate that we have, it's really hard

00:19:32.020 to ignore that dynamic. It's really hard to not believe that somewhere white guilt

00:19:38.720 was at, is at least tangentially related to why it was so important to rush out and say,

00:19:45.280 don't make this a race thing. Just don't do that. Don't notice. Don't notice what's happening.

00:19:49.840 Don't look at the statistics. Don't look at the disproportionate violence. Don't know who's the

00:19:54.560 victim and who's the perpetrator. Don't notice because if people are noticing they might be

00:19:59.840 racist and that might by the transit of property, make people think my son is racist and my son being

00:20:05.280 racist would be the worst thing that could ever happen. So that's the racial aspect of that. And I

00:20:11.760 think that ultimately we have to defuse this. I give kudos to a guy like Matt Walsh, who has a very

00:20:18.040 large platform for being, having the courage to say these things. Obviously many people have said

00:20:23.040 them before, including myself, but I'm very glad that he was willing to get out there and say that.

00:20:27.900 I know this is something that Matt has spoken about before. And the fact that it's still creating this

00:20:32.660 level of extreme controversy is just kind of insane. And I also give huge credit to Jason Whitlock

00:20:38.540 for, again, coming out and acknowledging this problem. Very easy for him to play the race card

00:20:43.920 here. Very easy for him to say, this is just not a problem or, you know, we should talk about

00:20:49.060 something else. That is not what he said. He straight on addressed the issue because I think

00:20:54.820 Jason is a good godly man who ultimately is looking to resolve this problem. He is not looking to hide it.

00:21:02.000 He's not looking to put it under, put his head in the sand on this. He knows it's an issue and he

00:21:07.760 wants to see it addressed because he cares about his community and the future is a community. He

00:21:12.660 knows nobody is served, black or white, by ignoring this disparity in racial violence.

00:21:18.540 We hope you're enjoying your Air Canada flight.

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00:21:34.320 I'm not missing the game. It's kind of like I'm already on vacation. Nice. On behalf of Air Canada,

00:21:42.220 nice travels. Wi-Fi available to Airplane members on Equipped Flight. Sponsored by Bell. Conditions

00:21:46.760 apply. CRCanada.com. That said, I'd like to now deal with the religious aspect of this, right? And I

00:21:55.620 would like to say first and foremost that I am not a pastor, okay? I am not a theologian. So when I speak

00:22:03.220 here, please understand that I am doing so as somebody who is a lay person, okay? This is not

00:22:11.000 my profession. I am not steeped in the highest levels of biblical doctrine. However, I have been

00:22:16.500 a Christian for almost my entire life. I've heard a sermon or two on this topic. And I consulted my

00:22:24.140 friend, David Schrock, who is himself a pastor. He runs a good website that I think that, and it's

00:22:30.460 also a podcast which I've been on, Christ Overall. And he basically confirmed a lot of the things that

00:22:37.980 I was thinking about this issue. But I was very glad to have him as a resource. And it's okay,

00:22:43.560 guys, to admit sometimes that you should check with the authority of others. That's okay. You don't have

00:22:50.600 to just fly off at the hip at everything, right? And so I was very grateful for him because they had

00:22:57.320 written an article over at Christ Overall. I don't think David Schrock wrote it, but it's on his

00:23:03.700 website and it was discussed on his podcast. And so he approached this, of course, from a very

00:23:09.740 biblical place. And so I highly suggest that you go check it out. It's called Should Christians

00:23:16.340 Forgive Terrorists? And in addition to being very thoughtful, it's also got plenty of citations of

00:23:22.740 scripture. So if you would like to make sure that this is something that's grounded in biblical truth,

00:23:28.340 you have that resource there. Now, when this occurred, a lot of people pointed out that a father

00:23:36.820 rushing out and saying, I forgive my son's killer before anything has happened, before he has repented,

00:23:47.100 before any justice has been done, before there's even been a determination in court on guilt,

00:23:53.080 I forgive him publicly without any interaction with him. Many people pointed out that this is not the

00:24:00.240 best look for Christianity. That ultimately, this makes Christianity look pretty weak and pretty easy

00:24:08.360 to dominate and pretty easy to control. Because basically, in this formulation of Christian doctrine,

00:24:17.100 if your son is killed, the only thing you can do is kind of feel bad about it at the end.

00:24:22.300 Like, so, sorry, like about, you know, don't defend your son. Don't look for justice. You know,

00:24:28.460 don't even demand any kind of repentance from the, just forgive right away. Don't worry about it. Move

00:24:33.100 on. This is something that makes Christianity seem like a pretty hard sell. And the response to this,

00:24:39.640 especially by a number of people, interestingly enough, who are very, very self-righteous

00:24:45.260 comments about, how do we say, their evangelical Christianity inside of a neoconservative context

00:24:52.500 was very interesting. We saw a lot of people fly off the handle at those who pointed out this wasn't

00:24:57.380 the best look. And their response was, what are you talking about? Christianity is about forgiveness.

00:25:02.700 That is all that Christianity is about. That Jesus died on the cross and he said, Father, forgive them.

00:25:07.740 They know not what they do. And you have to forgive. You have to forgive everyone without asking because

00:25:13.300 Jesus forgave everyone without asking. And that is what Christianity is all about. This, there were a lot

00:25:20.880 of very mainstream, very influential people who had this particular take. And that was very interesting

00:25:27.560 for many reasons. The first of which being that they did not have the same take when terrorists,

00:25:35.500 when Hamas terrorists killed Israelis on October 7th. Many of them have very long, bloodthirsty

00:25:44.240 posts about how there are no innocent Palestinians and you can go in and wipe out every single one of

00:25:50.540 them. You can grind Palestinian children into the dust and make bread with their bones because

00:25:56.780 ultimately they are not human beings because there was a terrorist attack and you can kill anyone and

00:26:03.100 everyone as vengeance for that terrorist attack. Uh, hostages aren't turned over. You can wipe out

00:26:07.800 every single child in Gaza. It doesn't matter. You are justified because there is an attack. Now

00:26:13.160 that might be true. That, that might be a fair response, but it's hard not to notice that there's a very

00:26:22.740 different message when Hamas terrorists kill people in Israel as opposed when a black student stabs a white

00:26:31.940 student in the United States. It's very difficult not to notice the different standard being applied to

00:26:39.740 Christians in this moment, as opposed to when they're supposed to store, you know, support military action by

00:26:47.840 the nation state of Israel against terrorists. Again, I am not arguing against Israel's response here, but the

00:26:55.700 rhetoric coming out of many of the online personalities, uh, when October 7th occurred was, uh, eye opening.

00:27:04.500 Okay. These were people who are looking for very old Testament biblical justice against the killers of,

00:27:11.780 uh, you know, children in Israel. And I get it. I totally understand that response. That would be my

00:27:17.620 response if it happened to my countrymen. However, that is not what their response is when it does

00:27:24.420 happen to a kid in Texas. So why is that? What's, what's up with this double standard, right? Um, so

00:27:32.500 let, let's, let's, let's dive a little deeper into, uh, the, the biblical standard of forgiveness,

00:27:39.400 because I think that's really what's being lost here. Okay. Because a lot of people are just quoting,

00:27:45.700 uh, you know, father, forgive them. They know what, not what they do and saying, that's the

00:27:50.580 beginning and the end of the discussion. And, uh, the really fun thing about the Bible,

00:27:54.740 uh, that I have learned throughout my many years of sitting in church pews is that it is really easy

00:28:00.580 to take out of context. And so it turns out that you can't just pull one verse or one moment out of

00:28:07.460 the Bible. You can't just completely deracinate it, completely separate it from everything that defines it

00:28:14.480 and then drop it into your current political situation or to justify your current political,

00:28:19.320 uh, leaning. And by the way, that's just as dangerous. And I am just as, you know, possibly

00:28:24.700 susceptible to that tendency as anyone else. So, uh, this is not like something that only happens to

00:28:31.600 people who are perhaps wrong on this, this, this issue. Uh, it could happen to me too. However,

00:28:37.800 since we are discussing this, and again, because I have consulted a pastor and I, I feel like,

00:28:42.660 uh, his argument is sound and was made with a large amount of scripture and it's thoughtfully,

00:28:46.740 uh, written out and, and, and that kind of thing. I would like you to refer, refer you to his argument

00:28:51.780 because I think it's very good. And his point was that, uh, we don't have to guess at what the

00:28:57.620 biblical model of forgiveness looks like. This is not some kind of thing that we just don't know,

00:29:02.900 uh, or, you know, is really up in the air. Uh, Jesus, uh, was very kind

00:29:08.080 enough to tell us exactly what forgiveness looks like. Uh, and I have the, the, the verse here,

00:29:15.680 uh, that is relevant. It's Luke 17, three and four. It says, if your brother or sister sins against

00:29:21.640 you, rebuke them. Okay. So right there, you need to rebuke them. It's, it's not enough to just forgive

00:29:30.160 them. First, they need to be rebuked for what they have wronged you. Then if they repent,

00:29:37.760 forgive them. All right. So there's a, there's a three-step process here. Uh, first they are

00:29:43.020 rebuked. You have done something wrong. You have wronged me. Second, they recognize

00:29:48.380 that rebuke and say, I acknowledge the wrong that I have done you. And I am actually sorry. And there's

00:29:57.220 a demonstration of my repentance. It's not just empty words. It's not just reading a statement.

00:30:02.500 They show real repentance. Then you forgive them. So rebuke, repent, forgive. This is Jesus. This

00:30:13.860 isn't someone else. We're not pulling from Paul even, or, you know, uh, what random disciples who

00:30:20.040 taught, you know, someone talking later, these are Jesus's words. Okay. And he says, you need

00:30:27.040 to rebuke them. And if they repent, then you forgive them. Now, the more radical part of this,

00:30:33.180 the part that is often, uh, the, the, the thing that is much harder is he says, even if they sin

00:30:38.820 against you seven times a day and seven times, they come back and say, I repent, you must forgive them.

00:30:46.180 So yes, Christianity is about forgiveness, but there is a very important step here. There are two very

00:30:56.180 important steps before the forgiveness that we need to notice. And the thing that you need to

00:31:01.580 recognize, unfortunately, is that right now there simply has not been repentance on the part of the

00:31:11.600 alleged killer. Okay. There's just not been repentance on the, on the, uh, uh, part of Carmelo

00:31:19.460 Anthony. So far, he has said that this is in self-defense now who, you know, again, allegedly

00:31:26.160 it's a murder. I was not there and there has been no trial. So maybe ultimately it wasn't self-defense.

00:31:34.380 I'm skeptical. I think I'm justifiably skeptical. Uh, there's probably no reason you needed to produce

00:31:39.620 a knife. Even if you were going to get into a scuffle, I've been in a fist fight. Okay. I I've,

00:31:44.980 I have been physically assaulted while I was legally carrying a firearm and I managed not to

00:31:50.600 shoot anyone. I managed not to produce that weapon in that moment because I did not want to escalate

00:31:58.560 that. I knew that the, uh, you know, the, the, the brush up physically was not a threat to my life.

00:32:05.600 So even if you were legally carrying a weapon, which he probably is not, if he has a knife at a high

00:32:12.680 school track meet, you usually cannot carry any form of weapon concealed or exposed, uh, on government

00:32:19.500 property, on school property, even, uh, states that have concealed or open carry laws usually do not

00:32:26.280 allow you to carry them onto those premises. But even if you were legally carrying a weapon at that

00:32:32.740 time, which again, he very likely was not, uh, producing it because someone asked you to move

00:32:39.780 and then kind of tried to move your stuff and or move your backpack, uh, again, probably shouldn't

00:32:44.740 have done that. That was probably not the way to approach that. Austin Metcalf probably should have

00:32:48.080 had a another way to deal with that issue, but ultimately producing a weapon and murdering that

00:32:55.100 child or, you know, that, that young man is not the correct response. That is not self-defense.

00:33:01.880 Your life was not in danger in that moment. You were angry and armed. And so you lashed out and

00:33:09.040 murdered somebody. That's not okay. That's not self-defense. However, the point is, uh, that there

00:33:18.220 is no repentance in that claim. There is no repentance in that claim. He hasn't even claimed responsibility.

00:33:26.280 He said, yes, I did stab him. However, it was in self-defense. So there's no acknowledgement of

00:33:33.940 wrongdoing. And he certainly has not said, and I'm sorry that I killed this guy. There has been

00:33:39.220 none of that. And he has certainly not asked for forgiveness. So he has not acknowledged the rebuke.

00:33:46.100 In fact, I haven't, uh, you know, I don't think the father has rebuked him. Maybe he has, I mean,

00:33:50.160 you know, uh, uh, however, uh, uh, he has certainly not acknowledged that rebuked, nor has he asked for

00:33:57.360 repentance. So he has not met the biblical requirements, the Jesus spoken requirements

00:34:03.660 for forgiveness. And so therefore issuing this forgiveness in this context is not a solution.

00:34:10.900 Now I want to play a short clip of, uh, Austin Metcalfe's dad talking about this, uh, because another

00:34:17.720 aspect that the article discusses that David Shrock's or sorry, it wasn't his article, but

00:34:23.440 that the Christ overall article is discussing on David Shrock's website. Uh, one of the things that

00:34:29.100 they talk about is, uh, therapeutic forgiveness as opposed to biblical forgiveness. And he points out

00:34:36.600 that a therapeutic forgiveness is very different from a biblical forgiveness because a, a biblical

00:34:43.400 forgiveness is about a conversation, a, a restoration of a relationship between two people.

00:34:51.120 It is necessarily, uh, interactive. You cannot have biblical forgiveness alone. It requires you to

00:35:00.560 talk to and deal with the person who has wronged you, right? That, that is actual biblical forgiveness.

00:35:07.820 Therapeutic forgiveness is a forgiveness that is embraced only because it makes

00:35:13.300 you feel better. It's not about your son. It's not about the person who has wronged you in that

00:35:20.160 situation. It's just about your feelings. I'm going to play this clip real quick and we can see

00:35:26.120 how this went down. It really struck me of your comments earlier today was your faith, the community

00:35:35.460 rallying to your family and your forgiveness at a time of deep personal pain.

00:35:43.300 Given your bond between you and both of your sons, but the son you lost. Your message to America

00:35:50.160 tonight about faith and forgiveness in tragedy.

00:35:55.520 Okay. Well, I'm deeply rooted in my faith and without the Lord, I would not be blessed with my

00:36:02.240 sons. I would not have the ability to able to be able to forgive. The thing about forgiveness is this.

00:36:09.520 I don't forgive for the other person. I forgive for my own peace. I can't carry that around me. It

00:36:17.680 would be like cancer. It would eat me up inside. So the Lord teaches us to forgive. Now, am I angry?

00:36:25.460 Yes, I'm human, but I have to live with myself. So I have to forgive. And I'd like to tell what the

00:36:33.840 world needs is more kind people. And if you. So again, I want to make it clear. I am not bagging

00:36:42.880 on Jeff Metcalf here. He seems like a good guy who raised a good family and is genuinely invested in

00:36:50.280 his faith in Christ and is just trying to do the right thing. However, I think he has bad doctrine

00:36:56.520 here. I just think he has a bad understanding of biblical forgiveness because you notice his

00:37:01.500 emphasis was on, I don't forgive the other person for them. I forgive them for me because it would eat

00:37:09.880 me up. And, and again, in the Christ overall article, they talk about how this is therapeutic

00:37:16.900 forgiveness. This is about my feelings. This is about ameliorating my situation. This is about

00:37:23.180 letting me move on. In therapy, this would be letting something go. Forgiveness for the desire

00:37:29.820 to let something go so that you can be a functional person, not so that you're actually resolving

00:37:37.400 the issue between yourself and the other person. He also says we have to be nice. Jesus wants to be

00:37:45.000 nice people and forgive. Well, Jesus didn't tell us to be nice. However, he also did give us

00:37:52.380 instructions on how to forgive. And unfortunately, in this scenario, Carmelo Anthony has not met the

00:38:00.800 conditions for biblical forgiveness. He has not repented. He has not asked for forgiveness.

00:38:07.320 There's some other critical things here. We have to care about justice, right? It's not just about

00:38:12.760 forgiveness. The Bible is very clear that the state has the sword in order to enforce justice,

00:38:21.160 to enforce God's justice and God's law. And when we turn around and ignore the justice aspect of this,

00:38:29.500 and we rush to the forgiveness aspect of this, we are sending a bad signal. And it's not to say that

00:38:35.720 you cannot forgive. Ultimately, there is a process of biblical forgiveness. But you should be very

00:38:42.760 concerned as a father about securing justice for your son. You can say, if this man, once this guy's on

00:38:51.280 death row, if he would like to ask me for forgiveness right before the state sanctioned execution

00:38:59.240 in response to my son's death, perhaps God will give me the grace necessary to turn to him and say,

00:39:07.940 I forgive you. And that in and of itself is a miracle. That in itself is miracle enough. That is

00:39:15.140 a testament to the level of Christian forgiveness, but not before justice and certainly not before

00:39:22.280 repentance. Both of these things are critical aspects of what is happening here. And yet they

00:39:27.560 are entirely ignored in this rush to say, but you must give this completely detached speech about

00:39:34.060 forgiveness in order to be a real Christian. And the reason a lot of people say that a reason,

00:39:39.480 a lot of people ultimately come down to that conclusion. And I hear this all the time. And

00:39:43.860 you saw many, many people responding to those that said, maybe this isn't the best look by,

00:39:48.940 by Austin Metcalfe's father. Many of them immediately said, but Jesus said, God, forgive them. They know not

00:39:56.340 what they do. And or, and you might be saying, this is the last thing that Jesus did. So obviously this

00:40:02.700 is his final teaching on forgiveness. This defines Christianity. Jesus Christ did this. So yes, he said,

00:40:10.940 he laid out some things as to how we should forgive, but if this is how he forgave and I want to be like

00:40:15.860 Christ, shouldn't I do what Christ did? Shouldn't that be the final and ultimate demonstration of

00:40:21.680 Christ's real belief about forgiveness? And again, that sounds like a compelling argument.

00:40:28.040 I would be tempted to follow that argument if I didn't know anything about biblical context.

00:40:34.920 If you just heard that passage completely out of context and you had no other idea,

00:40:39.760 if you hadn't seen prior teaching about what Jesus actually believed about Christianity,

00:40:45.240 then maybe you might be suckered into that one. But, but there's a problem for people who are offering

00:40:49.940 this understanding of biblical forgiveness. Christ said, forgive them. They know not what they do.

00:40:56.820 And so therefore you should forgive people, even if they've never asked for forgiveness,

00:41:00.780 because they know not what they do. You should just do what Jesus did.

00:41:04.660 The problem with that argument is it just ignores all of Christian doctrine, like literally all of

00:41:10.680 Christian doctrine. Okay. So if you follow that to its logical conclusion, you know, Jesus said,

00:41:17.720 forgive them. They know not what they do. And that's, that's it. That's the end. If you really

00:41:21.780 believe that, then you should tell every pastor, every church, every missionary out there that they

00:41:29.640 are just wasting their time with evangelism. They're just wasting their time. You should completely stop

00:41:37.100 evangelizing because Jesus said, forgive them. They know what the, not what they do.

00:41:42.580 And so Christ has already forgiven everyone without repentance. He said it, forgive them. They know not

00:41:50.360 what they do. There you go. Boom. Done. No need for repentance. They know not what they do. Forgive

00:41:56.080 them. No need for repentance. And so nobody, nobody needs to ask for salvation. Nobody needs to come to

00:42:04.100 Christ for salvation. No one needs to repent of their sin. They're all forgiven. It's already done.

00:42:10.600 Boom. Forgive them. They know not what they do. If you really believe that that is what Jesus is

00:42:17.140 calling you to, then if you apply that to Jesus himself, to God himself, then God must also

00:42:24.380 forgive in that way. And he must forgive everyone. So everyone's going to heaven. Nobody needs to

00:42:29.840 repent of sin. All of the evangelism is just a waste of time because Christianity doesn't teach

00:42:36.160 repentance. It doesn't teach turning away from your sin. You're just forgiven. Done. You're just

00:42:42.840 forgiven. Don't change your behavior. Don't worry about asking for forgiveness. It's over. But

00:42:48.500 obviously that's not what anyone believes. That's not what anyone believes about God. Otherwise you

00:42:55.000 wouldn't bother having altar calls. You wouldn't ask people to turn from their sin because you're just

00:43:01.340 forgiven. Except that's not how Christianity works. We preach the need for repentance. We need

00:43:08.920 to turn away from our sin and towards God. And by the way, if you haven't done that, you should.

00:43:14.900 I sin on a regular basis and I really need God and I really need to repent. And I promise you do too.

00:43:21.620 But we all need to repent, my brother in Christ. We need to repent. Okay. That it is not enough to just

00:43:30.240 say, well, Jesus just forgave me. He said, he said, you know, it's over, you know, forgive him. He knows

00:43:36.220 not what he does. Now, then you might say, well, or, and then why did he say that? What's the real

00:43:40.620 context for that? Well, the Roman soldiers who were crucifying him were doing their jobs. They were doing

00:43:50.040 their legally mandated jobs. Yes, they were killing the savior of the world, but they did not know.

00:43:59.000 Forgive them father. They don't know what they're doing. They showed up for work. This guy had a

00:44:04.780 trial. They put him on trial. The legal authority condemned him to death. And then the soldiers who

00:44:12.440 were doing their job, put him on a cross and killed him. So yes, he was killed, but only because the

00:44:21.180 Roman soldiers there were doing what they were legally supposed to do. Father, forgive them. They know not

00:44:27.560 what they do. There's not a call that none of us need to repent, that none of us need to ask for

00:44:34.600 forgiveness, that none of us need to approach God and say, I have done you wrong and I need your

00:44:43.600 forgiveness. And so therefore it is not an invocation for us to, to do the same, to not have any requirements

00:44:52.720 on forgiveness, to not have anything that we need to, you know, any process that is necessary before

00:44:59.120 we forgive people. That is not the process that God models in the gospel. The process that God models

00:45:08.200 in the gospel is that all of us as sinners must repent before we are forgiven. We must turn from our

00:45:16.080 sins and repent before we receive forgiveness. That is God's standard for all of us for salvation.

00:45:25.320 You are not better than God. You are not going to out God, God here. If that is his standard for salvation,

00:45:31.580 you're not one upping him by virtue signaling and saying, well, I forgive you. And you don't even need to ask

00:45:37.160 for forgiveness because that's not what God requires. And that's not what Jesus said in the Bible. It's just not

00:45:42.380 biblical. This version of forgiveness is just not biblical. It's not what Jesus said about forgiveness.

00:45:52.240 And so when a bunch of people get online and scream, no, of course you must forgive immediately,

00:45:59.300 even if the person is unrepentant, well, you're representing a false Christianity. You're looking

00:46:07.580 at therapeutic forgiveness, not Christian forgiveness. And I'm sorry, but telling people that this is how

00:46:14.960 you should behave is just wrong. And again, one more time, I just want to emphasize, I am not attacking

00:46:20.360 Austin Metcalfe's father here. Good man, good family, seems sincere in his faith, just trying to do the

00:46:26.600 right thing. He just doesn't know. And also, again, to be fair, a lot of social pressure.

00:46:32.460 Please don't think my son is racist. Please don't think I'm racist. Please don't make this a race

00:46:39.040 thing. Please don't notice the race. It's hard to pretend that the white guilt isn't a big factor

00:46:44.880 here. So I just think we need to recognize first the reality of the racial issue dynamic here, but

00:46:50.980 also the reality of the biblical issue. What is being preached and practiced in this is just not

00:46:57.960 biblical forgiveness. It's therapeutic forgiveness. And I think we need to recognize the difference.

00:47:04.260 All right, guys, let's go to the questions of the people here real quick.

00:47:12.120 Jeremy Kearns says, thank you for your great talk at the conference. I wonder if reporters

00:47:16.600 train the answer out of him. They do this in the UK often with Islamic crimes. Yes. First, thank you. I had a

00:47:25.300 great time at the Right Response Ministry conference. Met many great people. Many of you guys who have

00:47:29.640 been watching for a long time. Very kind people. A number of very interesting talks there. It was

00:47:34.720 great to meet up with a bunch of people that I've only talked to online, that kind of thing. So

00:47:38.220 a great time there. Also, yes, it is entirely possible that, again, that social pressure got to

00:47:46.040 Jeff Metcalf. Honestly, I think ultimately his motivations are relatively sincere. It's just bad

00:47:52.440 doctrine. I think that's really all it is. Again, I think Jeff Metcalf seems like a good guy. Seems

00:47:57.980 like raised, you know, great family. Seems sincere in his faith. I think he just misunderstands this

00:48:03.660 doctrine. That said, the phenomenon you're talking about is very real where people get coached up,

00:48:09.960 again, in the United States by their own government and, of course, also by the media.

00:48:13.380 And I think that is its own problem.

00:48:20.420 I cannot say your name, but thank you for the donation, sir. Would you ever have

00:48:24.700 Mary Morgan on given the right topic? Honestly, I don't know who Mary Morgan is. So I can't really

00:48:32.540 answer that. Generally, if I find someone's work interesting on, I will have them on. So if you

00:48:38.740 have something that they have put together or, you know, I guess she has put together, please let me

00:48:43.600 know and I could take a look. But I'm just not familiar with that person.

00:48:49.940 Matt Grudier says, I can't even imagine seeing your brother dying in your arms over a silly

00:48:53.940 argument. This whole story is so sad. Glad you're doing a video on it. Yeah, again, this is so

00:48:58.660 important. One of the huge problems here is that Kamala Anthony has not asked for forgiveness in this

00:49:03.880 alleged murder. He has claimed its self-defense. And I just cannot imagine a scenario where producing

00:49:10.000 a knife that you were already in possession of very likely illegally in this moment is appropriate.

00:49:17.620 Again, I have I've been in scuffles before when armed and that does not have to escalate into someone

00:49:23.400 dying. That is just, you know, not the case. And so that's that's one of the things about being

00:49:29.540 armed. First, it should be legal. But second, if you're going to take that responsibility,

00:49:35.040 you have to have the level of self-control necessary. You have to be willing to to weigh

00:49:41.280 the costs of drawing a firearm or drawing a blade. And if you're not ready for that responsibility,

00:49:47.560 if you don't have that level of discernment or that level of temperament control, then you

00:49:51.900 probably should not be carrying a weapon. And so it just seems like, yeah, I mean, the fact that his

00:49:57.380 brother, his twin brother watched him bleed out because this guy got heated in an argument and

00:50:03.500 had a weapon on him, he shouldn't. I mean, it's horrific.

00:50:09.740 Matty Ice says these interviews elicit forgiveness to the killer almost without effort,

00:50:15.040 but it would never allow the same forgiveness for a much lesser taboo violation, racism, etc.

00:50:21.280 Is it true the DOJ sends PR teams? First, Matty Ice, yes, it is. Obviously, you probably sent that

00:50:26.560 super chat before I discussed that. But yes, that is absolutely true. Again, I don't know if that

00:50:30.300 happened here, but the simple fact that that does happen is itself pretty Orwellian and really speaks

00:50:35.620 to how deeply gay race communism seeped its way into every aspect of American life that we have

00:50:40.760 like basically a secret police force that visits you and tells you to shut up if the person of the

00:50:45.600 wrong race killed your kid. That's already pretty, pretty horrific. People who pretend like communism was

00:50:51.480 defeated by the United States should probably check out some of the communism in the United States.

00:50:56.560 That said, yes, you're absolutely right that there would not be. I have never in my life,

00:51:04.340 not one time, seen a black person run to the camera and say, I forgive that guy for calling

00:51:10.080 me the N word. Like this has never happened. Never. I've never in my life seen a single black guy just

00:51:18.260 like run up and be like, I know that guy hasn't repented yet for calling me a racial slur, but I forgive

00:51:23.820 him. And again, that's not because they're doing anything wrong. They should be looking for repentance

00:51:28.300 that you should hear repentance from someone before you forgive. And so, yeah, you're absolutely right

00:51:34.440 that that is just not the dynamic that plays out in any other scenario. Certainly wouldn't be what

00:51:39.220 any, you know, there's no one who's going to show up to your door as a black person. If someone called

00:51:45.180 you a racial slur and ask you to go and publicly forgive them so that there's no racial tension,

00:51:50.220 uh, you know, TV reporters are not going to demand that of you. Uh, that is just not the case, right?

00:51:55.420 Like no, no one was going to George Floyd's family and being like, Hey, uh, did, did, you know, do you

00:52:01.140 forgive the police officer who at that time, allegedly he did not kill, uh, you know, the autopsy

00:52:06.000 reveals he was not responsible. Derek, Derek Chauvin, uh, is not responsible, uh, at least, uh, for

00:52:10.840 directly for the death, uh, of George Floyd, but no one ran to George Floyd's family or relatives or

00:52:15.920 community and said, do you forgive him? Just nobody did that. And everyone knows why nobody

00:52:20.220 did that. No one expected that from them, but they do expect it, uh, from Austin Metcalfe's family.

00:52:27.620 Uh, Templar says none of these leftists can forgive the right wing. So it's totally one way and fake.

00:52:33.540 Yep. Again, you know, double standard pointing out can get a little exhausting, but ultimately,

00:52:38.260 uh, you know, you, this is why you just have to brush this stuff off. You know, you have to step

00:52:42.280 over this stuff. Like all of these arguments are just a bad faith because none of the people making

00:52:47.620 them a, uh, practice the same behavior during October 7th. None of them are like, got, got,

00:52:53.780 forgive Hamas. They know not what they do. Nobody's saying that as, uh, as, uh, Andrew Isker pointed

00:52:58.800 out on Twitter, uh, earlier, no one is saying that. Yeah. Oh, sorry guys. Like you can't go in,

00:53:05.340 you can't stop the terrorists. You know, God has forgiven them. So just move on. Like nobody is

00:53:09.980 saying that, but we're saying it here. So it just,

00:53:12.280 the, the, the hypocrisy is off obvious and you just need to step over it and say, Nope,

00:53:17.240 we have standards for forgiveness. Our standards are the biblical standards that Jesus actually

00:53:21.320 laid out, not your therapeutic forgiveness that has been manufactured, uh, for some kind

00:53:26.220 of, uh, attempt at relieving a social conflict. He says, uh, two thieves were crucified next

00:53:32.540 to Jesus. Only the one who repented was forgiven. Thank you. Thank you. I meant to bring that up.

00:53:37.500 I really appreciate you pointing that out. Yes, precisely. There are two men next to Christ who

00:53:44.560 have sinned. Only one of them goes to heaven. He doesn't say father, forgive both thieves

00:53:51.580 because they didn't know what they were doing. Only one man went to heaven that day and is the one

00:53:57.920 that repented along with Christ. It's right there. Like this is, this isn't some abstract guessing

00:54:05.540 game. There is a biblical requirement that Jesus demonstrated over and over again. And Carmelo

00:54:12.060 Anthony has simply not met that requirement. Sorry. Like you can whine and cry and tell me that that's

00:54:20.340 not real Christianity at all you want, but that's what Jesus did. So I'm going to go with Jesus,

00:54:24.440 not your therapeutic version of forgiveness. Um, Chris, uh, Tisking says a lot of Christians are

00:54:31.280 just followers of the tolerance religion, not actual Christianity. Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:54:35.820 Uh, many, many, many public evangelical Christians, uh, are really just, um, I, you know, again,

00:54:44.600 I don't want to, I want to be careful about, um, questioning the sincerity of people's faith,

00:54:49.780 but I, what I should say, the way I should say this is the doctrine that they hold is not Christian.

00:54:55.580 The doctrine that they hold to is just liberal. It's just liberalism. They just believe the

00:55:02.700 consensus liberalism and they call it Christian doctrine, but their actual doctrine is just

00:55:08.180 liberal pluralism. Um, we've got friendly here says, uh, what do you think about, uh, Black Pitter

00:55:16.080 basically connecting that it was self-defense and support of Carmelo seems to be a pattern again.

00:55:21.000 Yeah. This is what we see every single time, right? It's, it's always, uh, every, every single

00:55:26.720 person who ever commits a crime while being black, uh, is actually a victim. And really, uh, you know,

00:55:34.320 they, they were, you know, it's always the police were, you know, apprehended them unjustly. And it was

00:55:39.400 all, you know, it was the sweetest boy and he'd never done anything wrong. And it's all,

00:55:43.160 you know, we see this over and over again. And again, to Jason Whitlock's great credit,

00:55:48.100 he called this out. He said, we as a black community have to stop doing this. We have to

00:55:53.760 take ownership of these things. We have to, to recognize the problem here and recognize that

00:55:58.740 the only way forward is real Christian repentance and a real Christian reconciliation and real Christian

00:56:06.060 transformation. That is the only way forward sitting around and trying to justify this,

00:56:11.120 trying to explain away the statistics, trying to pretend that every one of these instances is

00:56:15.660 just, you know, the police being racist that gets you nowhere. And that continues to produce the kind

00:56:21.040 of situations that get guys like Austin Metcalf killed. And that's why we have to talk about it,

00:56:25.320 whether Jeff Metcalf wants us to or not again, nothing but respect for this guy, nothing but

00:56:30.120 sympathy for this guy, but, um, this is just not the way to respond. And all it does is enable

00:56:36.360 the next Carmelo Anthony, allegedly. I'll just keep making sure that's in there. Um,

00:56:44.260 Chris Tisking says, uh, I don't see the racial dynamic, uh, not hitting a point of singularity

00:56:50.260 in the next decade. I believe it will affect politics, daily life, and every other aspect.

00:56:54.340 It already does, but not for whites, uh, thoughts. Uh, you know, uh, it, it's a issue that is only

00:57:02.920 going to continue to fester until it is resolved. Um, and that's why I think it's important to have

00:57:09.320 discussions on this. That's why I do my best to try to have thoughtful discussions on this.

00:57:13.500 I think there are bombastic generalizations that sometimes occur on the right that make it

00:57:19.100 difficult to have these conversations. And I would encourage you to be careful with that.

00:57:24.500 However, not having the conversation ultimately is more dangerous than transgressing someone's

00:57:30.520 feelings. Uh, so don't say things that aren't true, but also, you know, don't stop yourself from

00:57:37.840 saying things that are true just because you're worried about offending someone. Don't say things

00:57:43.340 that are offensive just to be offensive, but if true things offend someone, well, that's too bad.

00:57:49.120 So if black crime is higher and it is rather disproportionately, uh, then we just have to talk about

00:57:55.980 that. And even if that hurts someone's feelings, now that doesn't mean it's okay to inflame racial

00:58:01.740 hatred. It doesn't mean that it's okay to belittle or besmirch people's dignity in that discussion.

00:58:07.800 And it's very easy to, to fall into those traps, but ultimately we need to discipline ourselves well

00:58:14.120 enough to have a conversation around these issues and address these issues in a way that reflects

00:58:19.620 Christian morality without ignoring them. The, the, the responses cannot be shut up and ignore it

00:58:27.700 or get hateful. Uh, there has to be something in between. And I believe the only thing that helps us

00:58:34.220 navigate that again is Christianity. It helps us understand that there could be differences and

00:58:41.920 that there could be disparities in outcomes, including violence and policing, and that we need to address

00:58:48.700 those and we need to bring justice in those situations and that we cannot shy away from

00:58:54.200 justice just to pad the feelings of people who recognize what's going on there. But at the same

00:59:00.380 time, that doesn't give us a free pass to be hateful, to belittle people. We still need to love our

00:59:06.660 neighbor as ourselves. And I think ultimately that that is the balance we have to strike and it's

00:59:12.080 difficult balance, but it's when we have to find, uh, because if we don't, then this thing's going to

00:59:16.860 boil over one way or another. And, uh, while some people think they want that, they don't, I promise.

00:59:22.560 All right, guys, let's go ahead and wrap this up. I want to thank everybody for coming by. If it's

00:59:28.220 your first time on this channel, please make sure to go ahead and subscribe, click the like button,

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00:59:59.440 everybody for enjoying the show. And as always, I'll talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - April 07, 2025

Does a Christian Have to Forgive His Son's Murderer？｜ 4⧸7⧸25

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