The Auron MacIntyre Show - Forever War ｜ Guest： Dave Smith ｜ 12⧸14⧸23

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00:00:30.300 Hey, everybody. How's it going?

00:00:31.780 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.260 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.700 So Dave Smith is a comedian.

00:00:39.120 He's got his great show, Part of the Problem.

00:00:42.200 Last time I joined him on there, we ended up agreeing way too much.

00:00:46.120 Everybody was really angry that we didn't spend the whole time yelling at each other.

00:00:50.060 And so I was hoping to have Dave on to see if we can finally find something we disagree about.

00:00:54.480 Thanks for coming on, man.

00:00:55.720 Thank you so much for having me, brother.

00:00:57.180 Glad to join you.

00:00:58.060 And I'm going to work to make sure we just agree again this whole time.

00:01:01.540 Absolutely.

00:01:02.340 Well, I've got a feeling that we're going to disappoint people by agreeing once again far more than we're supposed to.

00:01:07.620 I wanted to start with something we'll probably agree on a decent amount, which is kind of the approach that America has currently taken to war, the way that the Uniparty seems to address it.

00:01:18.040 But before we dive into that, guys, let's hear from today's sponsor.

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00:02:30.880 So Dave, when I was a kid, I grew up, I was in a military family, my dad was in the Air Force, I grew up in Air Force bases, you know, the idea that he could be shipped out was a real thing, knew a lot of people in the military, and so I kind of felt like a natural conservative.

00:02:48.500 I grew up on talk radio, you know, when 9-11 happened, it felt only natural that we would go out and defend ourselves.

00:02:57.360 You know, the way we understood combat was nation states were responsible for warfare, and so if something attacked your, you know, inside your borders, if there's attack inside your borders, you had to go out and punish a nation state.

00:03:10.120 That was the understanding.

00:03:11.340 It made perfect sense to me.

00:03:13.040 Now, over time, it seems to, there's been a great shift.

00:03:16.720 Now, it seems like the left, who had, you know, all of this credibility for being anti-war in Vietnam and, you know, hating Ronald Reagan and his strength through, or his peace through strength initiatives and those kind of things, they've completely changed their tune.

00:03:33.620 Now they seem more than happy to be as bloodthirsty as any neoconservative ever was.

00:03:38.380 And the right seems to be in a mixed situation.

00:03:42.520 Half of it kind of wants to be neutral or against war in general.

00:03:47.160 Half of it still seems to be tied into the interests of the kind of the larger empire.

00:03:52.640 What do you think about the shift over time where we continually have kind of this interest of both parties in moving wars forward, but it's just whichever one seems to have advanced itself into a place of primacy?

00:04:06.560 Yeah, right.

00:04:06.900 It's really fascinating.

00:04:08.380 And so much of this has happened, like, in our lifetimes, because it really is, it is a different situation since 9-11.

00:04:15.460 I mean, it's not, obviously, America has fought a lot of wars before 9-11, and we were, essentially, since World War II, the empire of the world.

00:04:24.680 But it wasn't exactly accepted that we were in a permanent, perpetual state of war, that there would always be a war to be fought.

00:04:33.660 And, of course, you know, as you pointed out, like, in Vietnam, the left-wingers were the ones who really predominantly made up the anti-war movement.

00:04:42.120 Although, something that's kind of ironic about that, if you look back on it now, Vietnam really is the time when the right-wing loses the culture in America, and it was very related to that war.

00:04:54.480 So, in hindsight, it's almost like, if you look at it, you're like, man, the right-wingers should have been the most opposed to this war.

00:04:59.980 And there was firm tradition for them to oppose it on.

00:05:03.840 But, look, I mean, after 9-11, the left-wingers continued to be the force in the anti-war movement.

00:05:10.720 And the anti-war movement was pretty strong in America throughout the George W. Bush years.

00:05:14.860 So, I really think that it was Barack Obama who killed the anti-war left.

00:05:20.580 And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that it is just so deep-rooted in the DNA of liberal Americans to identify as the not-racist group.

00:05:34.700 Of course, I think we've seen over the last few years how defenseless they've been for these forces of wokeism, because if the penalty for not complying is you get called a racist, well, that's just too steep a penalty for most liberal Americans to pay, because that's their entire identity. 0.96

00:05:51.780 And Barack Obama was their charming black friend, and it was much easier to just be quiet or even work out some justification than to come to the conclusion that your cool black friend is a horrific war criminal. 0.66

00:06:08.020 And then, of course, on the right, I think that really starting with Ron Paul planting the seeds, but much more so with Donald Trump, the right half of America was kind of given permission to be anti-war.

00:06:19.080 As Tucker Carlson recently said on my show, Donald Trump made it so that it wasn't like, oh, you're anti-war because you're against America.

00:06:27.620 It was more like, no, because I love America so much, I oppose these wars that have done nothing but damage to us.

00:06:32.960 I think, unfortunately, since somewhere right around October 7th, I'm just pulling that date out of thin air, it seems like about 50% of the right wing has been transported back to 2003 or something like that.

00:06:47.080 But there's certainly another portion of the right wing that has not.

00:06:51.460 And that dynamic has been very fascinating to watch.

00:06:54.960 Yeah, there's a little bit of foreign policy amnesia that suddenly struck about half of the commentariat, to be sure.

00:07:02.160 I'm interested in that transition you talked about, though.

00:07:05.700 Like you said, Ron Paul obviously is somebody who was talking about the importance of pulling back American foreign policy for a long time.

00:07:14.980 One thing I want to get to is really the kind of overlap between paleo-conservatives and paleo-libertarians here in a second.

00:07:23.920 They're both being right on this issue.

00:07:26.540 But it was interesting that it took Trump to make this transition.

00:07:30.440 Part of my theory as to why the right was primed for this is when you look back to something like Vietnam, that was a war that was still largely fought by most of the country, though a lot of rich liberals managed to get their way out of it by using college deferment and things.

00:07:48.240 It suddenly became a class stratification.

00:07:50.420 If your parents could get you into college, you didn't have to go to the Vietnam War.

00:07:54.840 And so that was a big reason that the left happened to be anti-wars.

00:07:58.520 It also happened to have this cultural out to exempt itself from having to fight.

00:08:03.520 But it was the last war, I think, that was largely fought by America.

00:08:07.940 And post-Vietnam, the wars were really fought by a professional military force and not a conscripted force.

00:08:14.600 And that meant that legacy involvement, enlistment, was really the key to keeping American military prowess going.

00:08:23.500 And that mainly meant Red America, right? 0.89

00:08:26.480 It was boys from Appalachia.

00:08:28.480 It's boys from Texas.

00:08:30.040 Not so much from Chicago.

00:08:32.000 You know what I mean?

00:08:32.600 There's a very particular section of the country that started to become kind of the legacy warriors, especially when it came to frontline combatant conditions.

00:08:42.900 I think a lot of those people went to war.

00:08:45.520 A lot of my friends went to Afghanistan, went to Iraq.

00:08:49.640 And they didn't come back, came back hurt.

00:08:52.880 I think these are the people who came from the heartland, were the ones fighting these wars.

00:08:58.140 And I think over time, it became clear to Red America that there's a cost here that they're bearing, the brunt of. 0.79

00:09:05.200 But they never had the words to say why it was okay to oppose it.

00:09:08.800 Like you said, there was never this opposition to the war, was opposition to the things that their sons had died for or sacrificed for.

00:09:15.840 But Trump gave them the way to say, no, I care about my sons.

00:09:20.360 I care about the heartland.

00:09:21.640 I care about my community.

00:09:23.100 And that's why we have to stop doing it.

00:09:25.640 Yeah.

00:09:25.860 Well, and there's like the social psychology of the whole thing, which is what so much of politics, in terms of like how voters feel politically, so much of it runs off that.

00:09:38.020 And it kind of makes sense.

00:09:39.280 We're all probably guilty of this to some degree.

00:09:42.320 Like even just kind of being on the same side as some like crazy left wingers in the war in Israel makes me uncomfortable.

00:09:49.940 And I'm like, God, I wish I could just be not on their side on this, you know.

00:09:53.400 But so during the George W. Bush days, right, there were, if you were being against the war, it was like, well, who are you, Susan Sarandon or Michael Moore or something like that?

00:10:06.460 And to most right wingers, that's just like a sickening idea.

00:10:09.660 Like, oh, I would never want to be like that.

00:10:11.720 And so I do think it took figures like, you know, Ron Paul, who obviously was very libertarian, but is just personally about as conservative as you can get.

00:10:20.980 You know, a guy who looks like he, you know what I mean, a country doctor who's been married to the same woman for like 50 years and is a very personally conservative person who's a Republican making a constitutional argument.

00:10:33.980 And then Donald Trump, who is making a purely America first argument.

00:10:38.500 Like, what does this mean for you?

00:10:40.080 And I think it took it took figures like that to be able to get a lot of people in right wing America to go like, yeah, he's got a point.

00:10:49.580 And in fact, it was pretty quickly, you know, Ron Paul in in his 2008 campaign.

00:10:55.780 So this is when the wars were already going very bad than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan at the time is before we got into the rest.

00:11:02.720 But they were going very bad.

00:11:04.360 And I remember this being really pretty amazing that he got more money from active duty military members than all the other Republicans combined.

00:11:12.080 And then, of course, this was repeated when he ran in 2012.

00:11:15.060 And Donald Trump just cleaned house on military support over these Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio types who are advocating these wars.

00:11:21.720 And it does it does kind of make sense that once you gave them an out, once you left them a pathway to be able to leave and not abandon their entire identity.

00:11:29.700 I mean, who knows better than the guy who's seen his buddies getting killed over there comes back and, you know, is suffering from PTSD or whatever.

00:11:39.060 And and and and for what so that ISIS could take over the province that you just liberated a few years ago.

00:11:44.960 I mean, you know, it's it's it seems like it was a very like kind of natural step for them to realize, which has been a big theme, I think, in the right half of America over the last decade or so to kind of wake up and realize like, wow, we really got lied to and we really got screwed over.

00:12:00.620 Yeah. And it's interesting because a lot of these guys aren't anti-war.

00:12:05.040 I mean, they're they're in the military for a reason, but I know guys who were just, you know, absolutely traumatized because they show up, they watch people get killed and then they realize their buddies getting killed because they're defending Afghans who are trading eight year old boys. 0.79

00:12:19.320 Yeah, you know, and that's something that you can get people to kill for your homeland, to defend the heartland, to defend their neighbors, the people that they love.

00:12:28.820 But when this is the stuff you're asking people to go out and fight for, I mean, they're they're just that's going to break them.

00:12:36.100 Understandably, it should it should it should wound anybody.

00:12:39.400 100 percent, 100 percent. And like in the in the military, right, whenever you have a military force, it's a magnet for different types of people.

00:12:46.000 So there are people who go in there who are just like kind of troubled people who want to commit acts of violence and they go, oh, this is a way to legally do that.

00:12:52.940 There are people who go in there because they've been, quite frankly, bribed into doing it.

00:12:56.540 They have very little opportunity and this will give them more opportunity.

00:12:59.140 But there's a huge percentage of people who join, particularly in the post 9-11 days, who joined with like the noblest of intentions and were really like, hey, I'm going to defend our country so that no one comes over here and kills my mom and my sister and my little brother.

00:13:16.560 And I'm going to and I'll risk my life to go take on that fight.

00:13:19.940 And so particularly for those people who are the ones who went for the right reasons, that's got to be the toughest to be kind of go through that disillusion process of realizing that you were you were propagandized.

00:13:32.280 So obviously, I think we understand kind of why the right started to feel this.

00:13:37.620 I think it's also partly because what the empire was became a little more obvious, you know, that for a long time, the empire kind of ran alongside American identity.

00:13:48.020 It's still, you know, gave a lip service to faith and freedom, spreading democracy, these kind of things, maybe even economic opportunity or something like that.

00:13:58.800 But as it became very clear that these overarching institutions are looking to destroy fundamental conservative values, it became harder and harder to sell this.

00:14:08.120 And now this is the reason that, like you said, they were able to sell this to the left is, you know, I used to joke about the gender regime change, you know, but here we are. 0.73

00:14:16.260 This is literally the ideology they use.

00:14:19.240 Oh, we've sorry.

00:14:19.920 We've got to go over there. 0.93

00:14:21.080 I mean, people in Ukraine need to be able to get gay married. 0.99

00:14:23.480 And so that's that's why we've got to we've got to go to war. 0.96

00:14:26.680 That seems to be a very real ideological shift.

00:14:30.080 You know, all of our all of our embassies are raising the pride flag above like the Holy See.

00:14:35.120 You know, this is the flag of the American empire has no red or white or blue involved in the thing.

00:14:41.240 And it's just I think that that shift that has allowed the left to throw basically everything.

00:14:47.040 And you have to wonder, was the left ever really anti-war or was this is this is it really simply a case of friend and enemy, whoever happens to be in the levers of power at the time?

00:14:57.920 What did they really feel about this?

00:14:59.260 I mean, what do you think about that ideological justification allowing them to make that transition?

00:15:05.120 Yeah, it's you know, I don't know that I have the exact answer to it.

00:15:08.740 I mean, look, I think there were people on the ground, you know, say in the anti-war Vietnam protests like left wingers there or left wingers who were protesting the war in Iraq who were sincere and were really against the wars and really thought it was horrible.

00:15:26.800 But the thing is, you know, the way human psychology works is a little bit tricky, like it's very easy.

00:15:32.340 People compartmentalize things and rationalize things.

00:15:35.500 And unfortunately, I mean, the overwhelming majority of people are kind of followers and they kind of follow whatever is in front of them.

00:15:43.460 And I personally think that there was there was an enormous effort with a lot of funding behind it to push all of the woke stuff, say, since around 2011, 2012 to present date to really expedite that process.

00:16:01.600 Now, you can trace the seeds of it to much earlier than that, but I do think that the essentially the left was completely sabotaged by big court by corporate America.

00:16:15.100 And they were so pushed and then willingly entered into the kind of identitarian space that after a certain point, that's all that mattered to them.

00:16:26.260 And like the original cause seems to be at this point, like completely gone.

00:16:30.780 I shouldn't say completely.

00:16:31.540 There is a sliver of the left that is still really principled and anti-war, whatever other disagreements we might have with them, but who really are against the wars.

00:16:39.400 But it's a sliver at this point.

00:16:41.240 And the rest of them, I think, yeah, probably would, if you said it was to stop a trans genocide, would probably support just about any war you could think of. 0.96

00:16:50.260 Yeah, I mean, I do have a begrudging respect for the dedicated like economic Marxists or anti-war guy like, you know, that has just watched their movement get entirely eaten.

00:17:00.680 I mean, in my mind, I like my belief is that their movement was always actually about the gay space communism. 0.94

00:17:06.940 Like that was always the actual, you know, that was the real ideology and the anti-war stuff or the economics was just the window dressing.

00:17:16.720 But I do have a begrudging respect for the true believers who are still holding.

00:17:21.860 It's like the classical liberal who still believes in free speech and things like that.

00:17:26.580 Yeah.

00:17:26.740 Like, no, really, this was what the movement was always about.

00:17:29.600 Yeah.

00:17:30.040 I feel bad for them.

00:17:31.700 You know, yes, they were deluded, but at least they really believed in it.

00:17:35.680 Well, there certainly was something in the left that was always about deconstructing, you know.

00:17:41.860 And so what you would point to to say we're deconstructing this, I think a lot of leftists would point to like, well, look, this thing is represented by the warfare machine.

00:17:51.640 And so that's the worst of it.

00:17:53.100 And so it's easy to focus on that.

00:17:54.480 But then when you move on to another topic, it's like, well, now let's deconstruct the family or let's deconstruct religion or whatever.

00:18:00.660 And it is almost like this energy where they're just going to keep eating things.

00:18:05.120 And so, you know, like, again, you could argue, at least in the abstract, if let's just say, broadly speaking, the left wing is kind of about tearing systems down and the right wing is about preserving existing systems.

00:18:17.580 You could say, well, then there would be a situation where both would be necessary, like if there's a truly, you know, corrupt system, you'd want that torn down.

00:18:26.160 And if it's not truly corrupt, you'd want someone fighting to not tear it down.

00:18:29.880 The problem is that, to me at least, the left had so spun out of control, particularly in the last 10, 15 years, that it is now it is attacking everything with no discretion.

00:18:43.860 And if you listen to even radical left wingers from like the 80s or 90s, they would sound like, I don't know, maybe establishment Republicans today.

00:18:53.600 You know what I mean?

00:18:54.060 Like they wouldn't go nearly as far as as the ones what they advocate today.

00:18:58.400 So, you know, regardless whether that was always like deep embedded in them or not, it's certainly either way, it has accelerated in recent history.

00:19:07.260 Yeah, I think the understanding of the left is entropy is a very useful tool.

00:19:12.680 And I think, yeah, like you said, it's accelerated to a point where there's not even any any limiter on what they're going to what they're going to do at this point.

00:19:19.460 There's just everything needs to be can be constructed because that's all there is left to do.

00:19:23.680 And that's that's kind of why it ends up dooming civilizations if it's allowed to continue unchecked.

00:19:29.640 But we've agreed far too much.

00:19:32.980 So let's do our best to try to disagree here.

00:19:35.520 We're going to give that a swing.

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00:21:15.540 All right, so I lied. Before we disagree, let's agree one more time.

00:21:20.220 So why were the paleo-libertarians and the paleo-conservatives right?

00:21:25.760 Why was Pat Buchanan right?

00:21:29.780 And why do people get so angry when you pointed out that maybe Bill Buckley was not the best arbiter of the conservative movement?

00:21:37.020 Do those? That was a—so what you're referring to, if people don't know, is that—so I had Tucker Carlson on the show,

00:21:42.540 and I said something about Bill Buckley being one of the great villains of the 20th century,

00:21:46.060 and Tucker was like, I totally agree with you.

00:21:48.400 And I'm so—and I'm sure you probably suffer from this, like, bias, too,

00:21:53.120 because we're all in our camps and we're a little bit immersed in our world.

00:21:56.160 If you had asked me as soon as we stopped recording what was going to be the controversial viral moment from that,

00:22:02.460 I would have picked 20 things before I thought that would be the—I thought this was well-known information,

00:22:07.620 and we all agreed that Bill Buckley was an evil villain.

00:22:10.280 But evidently there are some people—Ben Shapiro does not agree.

00:22:13.640 But what—so one of the reasons why Pat Buchanan was right and what he really represented,

00:22:18.260 and there's this great piece—I'm blanking on the title of it,

00:22:22.080 but there was a William F. Buckley piece that he wrote,

00:22:25.360 the one—the famous one where he advocated for a totalitarian bureaucracy within our shores.

00:22:29.840 And this was the guy who I would certainly say, if not the most,

00:22:33.080 one of the most influential conservatives in the late 20th century,

00:22:36.840 or the second half of the 20th century.

00:22:39.040 And basically what he was saying, it was almost like a letter to libertarians.

00:22:42.440 And he was like, look, conservatives agree with you that the great struggle in human history

00:22:50.320 is between tyranny and liberty, and that the state is an instrument of force,

00:22:54.760 and therefore we were always the ones who wanted to shackle and limit the state as much as possible.

00:23:00.060 However, there's this new problem, which is the Soviet Union.

00:23:04.480 And there's this threat of global statism in the worst form that is trying to take over everything,

00:23:11.300 and the only way to defeat it is to fight the Cold War.

00:23:14.520 And so the only thing that can defeat that is a big government army.

00:23:17.620 So we just have to accept, for the duration, big government.

00:23:20.680 But for the duration, you know, like until we defeat the Soviet Union, 0.88

00:23:24.280 and then we could go back to being like a regular country.

00:23:26.940 And I think what Pat Buchanan kind of represented—well, not a libertarian,

00:23:31.680 but he did represent the old right, the kind of, you know, Robert Taft,

00:23:37.780 kind of old-school, like the idea was that America was supposed to be kind of what the founders envisioned,

00:23:43.940 at least to some degree.

00:23:44.800 A city on a hill, a restrained, limited constitutional government.

00:23:49.400 And when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991,

00:23:53.020 I think Pat Buchanan and Sam Francis and a lot of those paleo-conservatives were like, great.

00:23:58.820 Even though, like, Pat Buchanan was an ardent, cold warrior.

00:24:01.820 He supported the Bill Buckley Doctrine up until that point.

00:24:04.420 But he was like, but now the Soviet Union's gone, so that's great. 0.99

00:24:07.280 We can go back to bringing it to the whole country.

00:24:08.760 Yeah.

00:24:09.200 And then all the neocons were like, well, we got to go see about this Saddam Hussein guy.

00:24:13.860 He's in a slant drilling, you know, dispute with Kuwait.

00:24:17.420 So we should probably commit to a ground war there. 0.99

00:24:19.720 Also, we got to start talking about expanding NATO.

00:24:21.880 We got to look for—to remake the Middle East. 1.00

00:24:24.040 And he was like, these guys are out of their minds.

00:24:26.740 And I think the thing that he saw, what always kind of motivated Pat Buchanan,

00:24:30.560 and I've read all his books, and you could tell this is his motivation,

00:24:33.540 is always like, what's best for our country?

00:24:37.280 And I think he always saw that the—let's say what was driving the neoconservatives

00:24:43.100 was more like what's best for a different country.

00:24:46.700 And he was like, no, that's not my job.

00:24:48.980 My job is to focus on what's best for other countries, one particular.

00:24:52.840 And so that was really where there was the split between the neoconservatives

00:24:59.660 and the paleoconservatives.

00:25:01.320 And in this moment, Pat Buchanan had a lot of stature at the time.

00:25:05.220 I mean, this was a guy who had been an advisor for multiple presidential administrations.

00:25:11.600 He was very much a part of that Reagan revolution

00:25:14.420 and really very sewn into mainstream conservatism.

00:25:18.040 And he had also been on TV all the time.

00:25:20.740 He was the host of Crossfire.

00:25:22.120 And he ran for president.

00:25:24.100 And in that point, that's when Murray Rothbard and Lou Rockwell

00:25:27.640 and the paleo-libertarians, as they called themselves at those times,

00:25:32.140 they jumped ship—or they had jumped ship.

00:25:34.580 They had left the Libertarian Party a couple years earlier,

00:25:36.740 but they all got behind Pat Buchanan because they were like,

00:25:39.320 look, here's an opportunity for someone who actually is saying

00:25:42.700 he wants to end the empire and transform us back into a republic.

00:25:47.260 So essentially, if the question is why was he right,

00:25:49.760 Pat Buchanan was right because he was wise and very well-read and understood the world,

00:25:54.660 and because he was trying to figure out what was best for America,

00:25:57.780 and he realized that the empire was destroying our own country.

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00:26:29.100 Is that why Trump was coded dangerous as well?

00:26:37.160 Because I think that Trump, I don't believe Trump is an ideologue.

00:26:41.940 I don't believe that Trump had a lot of, you know,

00:26:45.060 well-thought-out machinations on how he was going to implement policy.

00:26:48.800 I think the person most surprised by Donald Trump's win was Donald Trump.

00:26:53.220 And from there, he didn't really know what to do with it.

00:26:55.760 But I think because Trump didn't know he was supposed to lie, he just actually listened to the conservative base.

00:27:03.280 And he just told them what they wanted to hear.

00:27:05.300 I don't think he cared about, you know, abortion or anything.

00:27:09.320 Like, I don't think he cared personally about these policies.

00:27:12.120 But I think he knew, I'm a salesman.

00:27:14.020 My customers are telling me this is what they want.

00:27:16.660 I'm going to repeat that back to them.

00:27:18.480 And all of a sudden, the media was terrified because he said things like Muslim ban and in foreign wars.

00:27:22.760 And like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we can't listen to what these people actually want.

00:27:27.020 And so I think that one of the reasons they're so apoplectic about Trump is even though they controlled him relatively well when he was in office, he's not really on board with the continuation empire.

00:27:40.180 And he is asking the question, for better or for worse, you know, what is good for America?

00:27:45.160 You know, actually putting America first.

00:27:47.160 And even though he might not have the intellectual standing of a Pat Buchanan, he still summons those forces.

00:27:52.800 And that's something they're really worried about.

00:27:54.980 Yeah, I think that's exactly right.

00:27:56.500 And I would say, you know, I think Donald Trump almost saw the game in 2016 and he realized he's like, this is my game.

00:28:03.720 You're telling me the game is who can win a popularity contest by being on TV?

00:28:08.980 Like, that's what I do.

00:28:10.500 And I think he just knew it was just so obvious to him. 1.00

00:28:13.040 And then I think in kind of in a gloriously ignorant way, like, I think he was just kind of like, because I think Donald Trump, if there's a simple answer, he'll just tell himself that's because I'm so smart and everyone else is so stupid. 0.99

00:28:25.260 That's why I figured this out. 0.99

00:28:26.460 So he's like, oh, no one else wants to play these cards.

00:28:28.960 These are pocket aces.

00:28:30.000 These are great cards.

00:28:30.880 I'll play these cards.

00:28:32.100 Close the border. 1.00

00:28:33.240 Stop fighting stupid. 1.00

00:28:34.220 What? 1.00

00:28:34.380 Like really easy things that the entire like Republican voting base is going to love.

00:28:40.880 Economic protectionism, right?

00:28:42.440 Things that they were not allowed to talk about, but, you know, they wanted.

00:28:45.580 Absolutely.

00:28:46.920 And I think that there's like all of those things.

00:28:49.660 Those are really the three major things that he ran on in 2016. 0.96

00:28:52.800 And I think he probably thought, oh, everyone else is too stupid to realize that this is a really good idea to do all of this when, in fact, it was more like they're bought and paid for and you're not allowed to say this stuff. 0.94

00:29:03.200 And so there were a lot of things he said as far as like why the regime hates him so much. 0.96

00:29:08.680 There's certainly a lot of things he said that you weren't supposed to say.

00:29:11.740 But I also think there was something just kind of deeper.

00:29:15.200 And if anyone listening, if you haven't read, I highly recommend go check out Murray Rothbard's, the title, the piece was called, I believe it was, The Case for Right-Wing Populism.

00:29:26.500 And this is a piece that was very controversial, particularly left libertarians who got very offended because they're allergic to anything that might, you know, like literally if you actually read the piece, he doesn't say one nice word about David Duke.

00:29:38.640 But if you bring up David Duke and aren't just shrieking that he's a racist, that's already, you know, too, like anyone on the left is allergic to that.

00:29:47.240 Keep clapping.

00:29:48.180 Keep clapping.

00:29:48.780 That's the party.

00:29:50.200 Don't be the last one to stop.

00:29:51.660 But one of the points he made was, and this is something that's kind of like buried history to most people today.

00:29:57.020 But when David Duke ran for governor and actually was doing very well, there was this huge national campaign to stop him.

00:30:05.480 And Rothbard was kind of talking about how they all freaked out about David Duke running.

00:30:11.260 And then he's kind of saying like, well, why is this?

00:30:13.500 What is it about David Duke that freaks everybody out?

00:30:16.000 And don't tell me it's because he's a racist or something like that.

00:30:20.140 Because, you know, you could go find racist quotes from, you know, half of the Senate, at least.

00:30:27.900 Maybe the House is a little bit younger.

00:30:29.500 But anybody like any of the old school guys, you can find tons of racist quotes from all of them.

00:30:33.540 And don't tell me it's because he was in the Klan when he was in his 20.

00:30:36.880 Because, like, Robert Byrd is over here and everyone's totally accepting him.

00:30:40.280 They don't have an issue with a former Klansman.

00:30:42.780 And basically what Rothbard kind of concludes is that what really scares them is right-wing populism.

00:30:49.000 And they're not – they don't love left-wing populism.

00:30:52.080 They'll try to harness it and use that energy as best they can.

00:30:55.140 But you could see with someone like Bernie Sanders where they're not completely on board with that.

00:30:58.920 And, in fact, as we know from the WikiLeaks dumps and stuff, right, like they're working to undermine him behind the scenes.

00:31:05.800 Right.

00:31:06.280 But it doesn't scare him like right-wing populism does.

00:31:08.660 And I think just Donald Trump being who he is, talking to right-wingers, saying drain the swamp and they're the problem.

00:31:16.880 Look, the difference between left-wingers and right-wingers when they're involved in, like, some populist campaign is, like, who is Bernie Sanders really talking to?

00:31:25.380 He's talking to what?

00:31:26.460 Like some male feminist at an Ivy League university or something like that who believes in democratic socialism? 0.63

00:31:32.440 It's like, yeah, but who's Trump talking to?

00:31:35.180 Like a trucker?

00:31:36.580 A cop?

00:31:37.780 Someone with a barrel chest?

00:31:39.580 Somebody who's actually tough?

00:31:41.560 You know what I mean?

00:31:42.180 Like if you're the regime – and this is what's true in regimes around the world – their biggest fear is ultimately their own people.

00:31:49.320 Their biggest fear is ending up like Muammar Gaddafi.

00:31:51.920 It's almost the only thing that can get them.

00:31:53.980 They've got everything else rigged.

00:31:55.460 So I think there's certainly a lot of things Donald Trump said that pisses them off.

00:31:59.380 But I think the nature of what he was doing was not allowed.

00:32:03.260 Like everything in our political world is by design. 0.97

00:32:07.700 You know, it's not a coincidence that – like if you look at Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio or Mitt Romney and you think about the right-wing, the right half of America, just right-wing America, red America in general, you might ask yourself, why is their leader a freaking nerd? 0.96

00:32:25.860 Like why is that? 0.97

00:32:26.800 Why is that their leader is supposed to be this like kind of scrawny nerd who's clearly afraid to be in a fistfight?

00:32:32.900 Because they like it that way. 0.86

00:32:34.840 That's what they want.

00:32:36.220 And Donald Trump kind of had this toughness to him, like that he was just standing there like I wish someone would say something. 1.00

00:32:43.060 I'd punch him in the face. 0.98

00:32:44.280 And they do not like that. 1.00

00:32:46.000 That's too dangerous.

00:32:46.820 I try to explain this to people because you're exactly right that I try to explain this to a lot of people who are policy wonks and they're dialed in to platforms and tight rhetorical loops and making sure that you have every agency mapped out before you go in.

00:33:03.600 And they're like, why isn't someone afraid of Ron DeSantis the way they're afraid of Donald Trump?

00:33:07.680 Like, okay, Donald Trump is holding a live wire.

00:33:10.880 Okay, that's why they're afraid of Donald Trump.

00:33:14.180 It doesn't have, you know, yes, you're right.

00:33:15.620 They said all these different things.

00:33:17.100 He's got these policy positions they don't like.

00:33:19.100 But the main problem with Donald Trump is he's actually holding a live wire.

00:33:22.160 And everyone else has a nicely managed cable set.

00:33:25.340 Everybody else is well shielded, put away.

00:33:28.560 There's no danger at the end of the day.

00:33:30.420 They all all of them are too there's too much that they owe to the system that they would they would have to capitulate on to, you know, even even if you're somebody who's very good at working on policy, you have to do it inside a particular framework.

00:33:44.060 Donald Trump doesn't care.

00:33:45.520 And it's his lack of caring.

00:33:46.860 And it's his and it's a hold on that live wire that that sets him apart.

00:33:50.900 Yeah, 100 percent, dude.

00:33:52.120 And it's just him.

00:33:53.220 He just emotes it like you can't.

00:33:55.540 You know, it's like in the same way that, you know, like if you were like at a bar, there could be one guy who you could just tell is tough just by looking at him like the way he carries himself, the way he walks into the bar.

00:34:06.240 You're like, that guy, that guy is ready to fight.

00:34:08.800 And he'd probably win that fight.

00:34:10.240 And then there could be some other loudmouth guy like I'll fight anyone in here.

00:34:14.120 And you're like, yeah, you're saying it, but you're not like emoting it to me.

00:34:18.160 DeSantis can get up there and say, I'm the anti woke guy and I'm against the left because look at what they're trying to do and this and that and that.

00:34:25.540 Donald Trump just has to be Donald Trump.

00:34:27.900 And you're like, that's the most anti woke figure I've ever seen in my life. 0.87

00:34:31.500 Just this proud billionaire who's like, you know, would be bragging to you about how many chicks he's banged if you were in a back room with him.

00:34:39.340 Like he doesn't have to, like, convince you he's that because he just is that thing.

00:34:45.120 Yeah.

00:34:45.220 And it's one of those things where every, you know, a lot of people have completely legitimate criticisms of Trump.

00:34:52.860 I think he is largely unworthy of the movement he ended up wielding.

00:34:56.440 I betrayed a lot of people shortcomings.

00:34:59.020 Like I'm on board with all of that.

00:35:00.300 But I just try to explain the dynamics to people like it.

00:35:02.580 It doesn't really matter at the end of the day whether you feel he's worthy or not.

00:35:07.560 He's in that moment.

00:35:08.500 Like the regime is trying to get this guy arrested and locked out of the thing for it.

00:35:12.800 And sometimes you just have to understand the moment rather than, again, trying to trying to work out all of the little policy positions and the platforms and thinking that you can Karl Rove your way into politics forever.

00:35:23.600 At some point, politics escapes the money ball phenomenon and instead goes back to kind of a forces of history happening.

00:35:31.440 And I think that that's kind of where we are.

00:35:33.340 All right.

00:35:33.660 So we agreed way too much.

00:35:35.500 Where am I wrong, Dave?

00:35:36.560 Tell me something I'm wrong at.

00:35:38.320 You got to tell me I'm wrong.

00:35:39.420 You're supposed to be giving me more.

00:35:40.760 You're supposed to be wrong about more stuff.

00:35:42.400 So I can tell you you're wrong.

00:35:43.380 You've been doing good.

00:35:44.060 I'll figure it out.

00:35:46.200 All government is evil, right?

00:35:47.920 Like that's, I don't know.

00:35:48.680 What are we supposed to do here?

00:35:49.980 Like, I guess I'll start with this.

00:35:53.600 I think government's necessary.

00:35:55.600 I think the state's going to continue.

00:35:57.220 I've read Democracy the God has failed a couple times through.

00:36:01.180 Hoppe's a genius in a lot of ways.

00:36:03.380 And especially when he's restating, you're a Hoppe guy, right? 0.97

00:36:07.060 Yeah.

00:36:07.540 Okay.

00:36:07.880 Okay.

00:36:08.540 So I think his main strength is restating Bertrand de Juvenal.

00:36:14.260 The reason that Hoppe is so good at explaining the failures of democracy is he's taking the metaphysics of power from Bertrand de Juvenal in his book on power.

00:36:22.520 And he's kind of updating it.

00:36:24.080 And he adds time preference and things that are key libertarian concepts to help flesh it out.

00:36:29.600 So I think that part of Democracy the God has failed is key.

00:36:32.520 But once he gets to covenant communities, he's just remaking government, right?

00:36:35.860 Like we can recognize that.

00:36:37.640 He's just like, well, what if we did government, but we called it something else, right?

00:36:41.340 Like we can kind of see how he does that, that sleight of hand, maybe?

00:36:44.640 No, I don't think that's right.

00:36:46.460 So you got to read it a third time.

00:36:48.060 All right.

00:36:48.460 You're almost there.

00:36:49.720 No, I think that there's – look, I mean, in a sense, it depends on how you want to conceptualize these things, right?

00:36:55.620 Because in a sense, I don't know.

00:36:58.220 You could say that like I'm the dictator of my house.

00:37:02.480 I mean, look, my four-year-old is probably jockeying for position with me.

00:37:06.760 She makes a lot of rules. 1.00

00:37:07.480 There's an insurrection.

00:37:08.500 I'll be honest.

00:37:09.200 She's not really – she's not following the dictators else.

00:37:13.060 Anyway, but like in the sense that like if you come over to my house and we have dinner or something like that, I could – I can dictate what you can and can't say.

00:37:23.980 I could say if you do this, you got to get out of my house.

00:37:26.260 I could be as tyrannical as I want to be and then – you know what I mean?

00:37:29.340 But if I were to tell you, you know, we tend to not think of each other as, say, dictators because, no, it's just kind of like this is your property.

00:37:37.220 And then the question becomes about the libertarian gripe with governments is that they violate the property rights of individuals.

00:37:46.060 And so if you're saying we would construct governments based off of property rights that are either voluntarily, you know, like exchanged or first homesteaded or whatever, then, yes, I could see where you would say there would still be a group of people who are in charge within this property.

00:38:02.440 But I think the key distinction to libertarians, it would be almost like saying that – like, okay, you're saying you want to get rid of rape, but you're saying you would still have sex.

00:38:13.020 So isn't that really the same thing by a different name?

00:38:15.540 And it's like, well, no, the point is that what's evil and then what also leads to all of these negative outcomes is when you give people the ability to override property rights.

00:38:26.120 And that basically I think – and what Hoppe's argument would be is that the core of civilization and particularly everything great about Western civilization is a respect for property rights.

00:38:36.100 So I guess the problem is that the state is – this is a way of looking at the state as if we're in an original position type scenario, right, like a state of nature.

00:38:46.720 And this is always the core problem with liberalism, like classical liberalism, not, you know, crazy lefty, you know, progressives.

00:38:58.440 It always starts with how can we construct man, right?

00:39:03.160 It looks from the outside and says if we were in some kind of position where we could make these decisions completely separated from different circumstances and natures, this is what we're going to develop.

00:39:17.520 These are the rules that we're going to set in place.

00:39:19.900 But that's not actually how people find themselves in the world.

00:39:22.780 And the state is pretty much the most organic institution alongside the family, you know, it's one of the most enduring creations of all human civilization.

00:39:32.260 And so the problem, I guess, when I talk to most libertarians – and we'll have to get deeper, you know, it may not be true of you, so we'll flesh that out.

00:39:41.600 But the problem I look – when I talk to most libertarians is they're just ignoring the fact that this is as key to human nature as pretty much anything else, right?

00:39:50.740 Like the problem with communism is that it denies human nature, right?

00:39:53.720 It denies certain incentive systems.

00:39:56.740 But it seems like liberalism does the same thing and libertarianism can do the same thing.

00:40:03.120 You know, much of the – much of our understanding of property rights is really not any – is a relatively recent phenomenon.

00:40:11.500 It's not how, for instance, the ancient Greeks would have understood property rights or the ancient Romans.

00:40:16.400 The property rights of ancient Greeks and Romans existed, but they existed because they were tied to their religion.

00:40:22.040 You needed to own property because that's where your dead were buried, and their original religions were ancestor worship.

00:40:27.440 And so, like, yes, you owned your property, but that was only because it was in defense of the worship of the household to continue.

00:40:33.460 Your ancestors couldn't continue.

00:40:35.000 And if you tried to sell things, it was a violation of your religion in certain scenarios to move property to sell it in a contractual manner.

00:40:43.920 And so I'm not sure that the property rights, as we understand them, are something that's enduring and really a way in which we can deny the existence of the state.

00:40:52.540 Right.

00:40:52.760 So, okay, so a few things to that.

00:40:55.260 So, look, if you're going to say that, you know, like the creations of governments are natural and that – and, you know, this is kind of just the state of how human beings are and we can't necessarily change all of these things.

00:41:08.240 So it's not – I don't think that libertarians are doing the same thing that, like, lefty communists are doing where they kind of would just openly say, well, we can create a new communist man who doesn't care about his own self-interest and cares about the community.

00:41:23.380 I think what – by that track, I mean, look, murder and rape and theft and all of these things are also just as natural and have never not existed.

00:41:33.480 But we can also still recognize that we'd all like to limit them as much as possible.

00:41:37.280 And so it's not even an argument that that isn't somehow within our nature.

00:41:41.300 It's just recognizing that for the process of civilization, you want to try to limit these barbaric behaviors as much as possible.

00:41:48.680 So what Hoppe would be arguing is that, look, even in ancient times when they had no conception of what we think of as modern-day, you know, legitimate property rights, they – in the same sense that they may not have had any conception of modern scientific understandings, that doesn't mean they still didn't exist in a sense.

00:42:10.580 So they just – like, you've always had this dynamic where human beings have – they control physically their own bodies and they can only control other people's bodies against their will if they, you know, initiate force on them.

00:42:25.440 And that we have scarce resources that we need to – in order to live and to live and prosper.

00:42:34.440 And so the idea is that basically almost every civilization ever is going to have a system of assigning property rights.

00:42:41.060 Now, that may not be like Lockean property rights, but almost every society ever would have a system of saying whose this is and whose that is.

00:42:49.340 And that – and this would be Hoppe's argument that the only way to do this as conflict-free as possible is to have a system of assigning property rights where there's as little conflict as possible.

00:43:01.980 And so as little conflict as possible, the starting point would be that I own myself and you own yourself, and then it would go to whoever mixes their labor, and then it would go to voluntary trade.

00:43:11.520 Now, there was one other thing you hit that I really wanted to respond to, but I'm blanking on it.

00:43:16.360 So you go ahead.

00:43:16.860 So I guess the problem is while, you know, we might cook that up and that might sound good at first, the truth is that, like, the reason that civilizations form is that, you know, banditry is the most natural response.

00:43:32.860 Like roving bands, you know, there's a reason that every civilization eventually gets knocked over by a bunch of guys running off the Eurasian steppe with horse archery, right?

00:43:43.060 And so the reason that we end up kind of developing the way that we do is that monopolies on violence are what actually allows for the increasing complexity of civilization and that someone's going to need to establish a monopoly on violence.

00:43:59.020 You don't actually move forward usually in human organization until that question has been removed off the table.

00:44:05.200 You can try to reduce it down to every individual, but the truth is that the vast majority of people are never going to be able to manage that,

00:44:11.080 which is why you built entire aristocracies because you handed that, you know, security function off, you know, for that particular reason.

00:44:18.160 That's why feudalism and things reign in the moments when centralized governments are unavailable because they're able to manage small units of property and defend them from roving bands, right?

00:44:27.520 It's the first way that you can create a secure mini state.

00:44:31.060 And so the problem that I think I run into with most libertarians that want to, like, disassemble the state, I mean, some of them are narco feudalists.

00:44:38.780 So if that's kind of your bag, then, well, maybe you've got an argument there.

00:44:42.760 But if you're just trying to eliminate the monopoly on violence from a state and trying to return it to private security forces or individuals,

00:44:52.480 I mean, the private security force is just going to become the state at some point, right?

00:44:55.540 Like, how do we actually hand off this function in a way that doesn't guarantee we're eventually just going to reestablish state in another form?

00:45:04.560 Well, I mean, OK, so number one, I would say if the argument for a state would be that if we didn't have a state in the worst case scenario, we could get a state again.

00:45:15.120 And I don't think that's actually a very strong argument for a state because the fear is that we could end up back with what we have.

00:45:21.260 Oh, yeah.

00:45:21.400 I know. So look, there are actually institutions that people would have made, I think, very similar arguments for, like, say, slavery.

00:45:30.080 And you can argue that slavery still exists in different ways in the world, and that's probably true to some extent. 1.00

00:45:36.560 But certainly the form of slavery that was dominant throughout the West was abolished, went away, and isn't coming back anytime soon.

00:45:45.920 And so I don't think it's necessarily a given that this violent monopoly must be maintained and it could never be decentralized because it would always have to grow back up.

00:45:55.640 I don't think that's true. And I think in many areas there we can look all around us and see lots of things where essentially there is anarchy in one particular area and it actually ends up being quite orderly and civilized.

00:46:11.620 For example, the evolution of language, which now, of course, the left has attacked and is now being kind of controlled from the top down in a different type of way.

00:46:20.200 But I'm saying over hundreds of years, not just over the last couple of decades, you can look at the fact that language is something that just organically develops.

00:46:28.200 And typically speaking, dictionaries are not like barking out instructions to people.

00:46:33.060 They're just collecting information and storing it for you.

00:46:37.020 See, I look at things much more, and this is the Hoppian position as well.

00:46:41.620 That I think if you're going to talk about the, there are several false assumptions in classical liberalism.

00:46:49.860 And the classical liberalism is the tradition that libertarianism comes out of.

00:46:54.740 I don't think those same false assumptions exist within libertarianism.

00:46:58.600 And I think that, in fact, if you look at where classical liberalism has failed, I think it's in their many fatal conceits to statism, the central most one being democracy.

00:47:11.620 And that, more or less, is what's led us down this path that we find ourselves in today.

00:47:18.120 See, now we're agreeing again.

00:47:19.880 If you're going to help me back on democracy, then I don't even know how we're supposed to do a show here.

00:47:25.180 But look, I mean, one of the central flaws of democracy is that basically, and this is why, look, even like, say, and take the racial aspect of it out, because I'm sure most people today object to that.

00:47:36.760 But if you think about, like, the founding fathers even saying that you had to be a property owner to vote, well, you can obviously see the logic in that, especially if you're talking about the late 1700s, where you go like, yeah, but if we give everybody who doesn't own anything the right to vote, they're just going to vote that everyone who owns stuff has to give it to them.

00:47:57.280 And then we'll all be broke, and then this whole thing doesn't work.

00:47:59.760 It's like it's so self-evident in a way that that couldn't possibly work.

00:48:03.620 But in the same sense, that essentially is the problem of democracy, is that you can vote for other people's stuff or for other people's rights to be violated or whatever, and that there's always going to be a way that you can play on that.

00:48:18.040 And so essentially, the way I look at it is that libertarianism is one form of limiting that, of limiting your ability to vote away all of the productive members of society who are probably the people who you want to incentivize and who you want other people to mirror.

00:48:35.740 And now you're going to vote.

00:48:36.520 You know what I'm saying?

00:48:37.040 So I'd say that's one of the major flaws of classical liberalism, I think, as well as maintaining government monopolies on several important services, which now, as you've seen, if you give governments those monopolies, it's just going to grow and grow and grow.

00:48:51.800 Well, again, I'm with Hoppe when it comes to the failures of classical liberalism and the failures of democracy.

00:48:58.600 Again, he's pulling directly from Bertrand Juvenile.

00:49:00.980 If you've never read On Power, I highly recommend it, because if you enjoy Hoppe…

00:49:04.440 I have read it.

00:49:05.300 It was quite a while ago that I read it, though.

00:49:07.440 Yeah, I am.

00:49:09.140 But I'm sorry.

00:49:09.740 Go ahead.

00:49:10.300 No, no.

00:49:10.700 I was just going to say, yeah, that's great that you've read it, because that gives you a strong background for…

00:49:15.280 Because I think, you know, I think Hoppe's right when he's talking about why monarchy has a, you know, a better time preference and a better, you know, the property rights of the monarch actually incentivize the, you know, the better care of the state.

00:49:30.880 And also, most importantly, I think the thing that probably doesn't get talked about enough, but I think is a really important point that both Hoppe and DeJuvenile make, is the fact that democracy opens up the rationale for state power.

00:49:45.020 Because the king was one man, but speaking with the voice of the entire people is what gives you the levee on mass.

00:49:51.120 It's what gives you mass conscription.

00:49:52.880 It's what gives you…

00:49:54.020 Oh, yeah.

00:49:54.880 100%.

00:49:55.320 No, listen, I was even arguing with people just this week about the war in Gaza, and I've heard a bunch of people say, and they'll just be like, you know, the world voted in 1947, and that's what created the state of Israel.

00:50:08.100 And it's just…

00:50:08.760 Even though there were no Arabs at the United Nations at the time, and the United Nations was like a year old, it was literally just like four countries who really had power there.

00:50:16.500 But there just is this thing like, the world voted, and therefore this is legitimate now.

00:50:22.100 And that's the same kind of idea that I think it…

00:50:26.000 Before the rise of democracies, I don't think people had as much of a view of like, the government is us, and we are the government, which is kind of obviously factually incorrect.

00:50:38.200 And I don't think it's helpful for a civilization.

00:50:41.280 Yeah, but I think it's critical to the massification and globalization.

00:50:46.380 If you want to spread your managerial apparatus beyond the border states, you're going to need that.

00:50:51.820 And I think that's why, for instance, you know, I always bring this up to people, and they never like it.

00:50:57.020 You know, the more the franchise has been expanded, the larger the American government has gotten, and that correlation is very obvious, and yet no one seems to make it.

00:51:06.020 They keep thinking that that's the thing that's supposed to restrict government when it does exactly the opposite.

00:51:11.280 But yeah, I've been listening to Daryl Cooper's series on the creation of Israel.

00:51:17.560 That's been pretty wild, and I knew some of that history, but not enough of it.

00:51:22.320 Yeah, it's a phenomenal series.

00:51:24.000 I highly recommend it if people, if your listeners haven't checked it out yet.

00:51:27.240 If you want to do a deep dive into Israel-Palestine history, it's great.

00:51:30.960 Yeah.

00:51:31.560 All right.

00:51:31.960 Well, we managed to agree again.

00:51:35.500 Our horseshoe has come back around.

00:51:37.480 We've got a lot of questions stacking up.

00:51:39.500 You mind going to those for a little bit?

00:51:40.600 Sure, absolutely.

00:51:41.740 All right.

00:51:42.720 All right, guys.

00:51:43.260 We're going to move over to the question of the people.

00:51:45.160 Before we do that, I just remind you, if you haven't checked out The Blind on The Blaze, it's the story of Phil Robinson.

00:51:51.300 He's, of course, the founder of the Duck Dynasty clan, and it's a movie about his story of redemption.

00:51:56.060 Obviously, he's part of The Blaze crew, but we didn't make that movie, so we can't actually give it away as part of Blaze TV.

00:52:02.960 But if you want to go ahead and buy it through The Blaze so you don't have to buy it on Amazon or Apple or something, you can go ahead and do that through the platform.

00:52:10.780 It's The Blind.

00:52:11.500 You can pick it up there.

00:52:12.560 You can watch it, and you don't have to hand your money over to one of these big tech platforms.

00:52:16.180 All right, so Plum Logan here says, nice to see my favorite libertarian chatting up with my right-wing pipeline.

00:52:25.240 Yes, the classic pipeline has assembled.

00:52:27.900 It's good to be here.

00:52:29.760 All right.

00:52:30.300 James Ginneman says, a nation can't be created by committee.

00:52:34.840 The United States isn't a nation.

00:52:36.740 It's a federal republic that, for better or for worse, ties together several states, several nations.

00:52:43.280 Discuss.

00:52:43.900 Yeah, what happened to these United States, Dave?

00:52:46.780 How did that go awry?

00:52:48.200 Well, that is the original conception of the United States of America, and it's weird how we almost don't even think of the words the United States.

00:52:56.480 We just think of, like, USA, you know, or United States even just rolls off your tongue as the name of a country.

00:53:01.540 I would argue that I think the United States of America became a nation at a certain point.

00:53:08.980 I'm not sure we still are one now, but I certainly think a nation is kind of like a marriage.

00:53:16.820 If it exists in your head to you, then it's real, and if it doesn't, then it's not real anymore.

00:53:22.300 You know, that's all that really keeps it going.

00:53:24.520 It's not the piece of paper.

00:53:25.840 It's what people believe, and I do think particularly in the post-Civil War period, probably not immediately in the post-Civil War period.

00:53:36.680 Post-Reconstruction, perhaps.

00:53:37.360 Post-Reconstruction, maybe, is a better place to start.

00:53:39.980 But certainly through the 20th century, America was one people and one nation to a large degree.

00:53:48.880 That's how people thought of it.

00:53:50.060 And if somebody came and attacked Hawaii, there would be no hesitation for someone from Tennessee to say, I've been attacked, I'm at war, we're going to war now.

00:54:00.420 I think that that has greatly deteriorated over the last few years.

00:54:06.820 I don't know if we could describe ourselves as truly one nation anymore.

00:54:10.200 Yeah, I think post-World War II, for sure.

00:54:13.660 You have that moment where everyone's gone to war, and you have mass communication through radio and television.

00:54:20.840 You, very importantly, have mass curriculums in school.

00:54:23.940 And however we both probably feel about public education, it is a binding cultural phenomenon.

00:54:30.540 And I think that's probably, you know, that kind of 30 or 40 year span there post-World War II is where you actually have America, the nation, really be a thing.

00:54:41.960 There's actually a monoculture for the first time, because I think before that, you know, you really were so spread out.

00:54:48.580 You know, everything from the Articles of Confederation to, you know, the Civil War are obviously a desire to centralize and turn America more into a nation than a collection of individual states.

00:55:00.320 But I think that's the first time where culture really fuses.

00:55:03.520 And then, you know, it just starts getting deconstructed in the 60s or 70s.

00:55:07.800 And it didn't last very long, unfortunately.

00:55:09.900 All right.

00:55:12.620 Kyle Jones here says, great guest, love part of the problem.

00:55:17.080 Would like to see Dave engage with AA's critique of free markets, especially his appearance on Lotus Eater's Brokonomics.

00:55:23.720 Yarvin arguments without the grandpa's Simpson onion.

00:55:29.060 Yeah, always fun to talk to Curtis.

00:55:31.920 It's a bit of a riddle every single time.

00:55:34.260 And you kind of talking to Curtis is kind of like directing a river more than actually any kind of back and forth.

00:55:41.640 But if you have, you've never talked to my buddy, academic agent, he's a YouTuber and he used to be a libertarian.

00:55:48.200 But but his focus is on economics.

00:55:50.700 He's made a number of arguments against the existence of actual free markets.

00:55:54.640 It's pretty interesting.

00:55:56.180 You probably have a good time talking to him.

00:55:57.640 Sure.

00:55:58.600 Happy to.

00:56:00.520 Well, Cortate here says, how does the USSR dissolve not or dissolving not disprove power theory that you can't destroy power or cast the ring in the Mount Doom?

00:56:10.600 Even if power was dispersed back to smaller countries, I don't see the the conflict with liberties.

00:56:20.260 OK, so how does the destruction of the USSR not disprove power? 0.98

00:56:24.700 The theory that power can't be destroyed.

00:56:27.640 Well, authority still existed.

00:56:30.040 It's it simply got moved around.

00:56:32.620 You weren't actually removing the fact that someone was in charge.

00:56:36.860 Yes, you're right that the larger empire did disassemble into smaller states or even oligarchic actors.

00:56:43.720 But those actors are still exercising state like power.

00:56:47.420 So, I mean, is the argument that you can is the argument of kind of the retention of sovereignty that you can never, you know, have it move down to smaller units?

00:56:58.200 No, obviously, that does occur.

00:56:59.740 Empires do fall.

00:57:01.200 They aren't eternal.

00:57:02.180 But the idea that you completely remove it, I think, is incorrect.

00:57:06.140 But perhaps, Dave, I'm assuming Dave has a different theory on that.

00:57:11.180 Well, I suppose there could be an argument made that, like, OK, if you can, you know, like if you can move it down, you can move it much, much further down.

00:57:19.660 Or where exactly does it stop that you can't continue?

00:57:22.540 In other words, if people can secede and secede and secede, where is the limit where that stops?

00:57:26.980 And why couldn't it go down to the individual?

00:57:29.200 Well, the fact is, truthfully speaking, I'm much less concerned with arguing whether we will achieve true anarcho-capitalism.

00:57:38.840 I see it much more as like the North Star that you want to be moving toward.

00:57:42.820 You want more liberty and less centralized control.

00:57:46.200 But certainly, I do think that it is, I mean, look, you could use the founding of the United States.

00:57:53.880 However, Curtis Yarvin might feel about the Revolutionary War.

00:57:57.360 The fact is, it was fought and they did defeat the most powerful empire of all time.

00:58:01.400 And something that would have been seemingly impossible only a few years earlier, where there was this secession of the United States of America from the British Empire.

00:58:10.160 And so, yeah, there's been lots of examples of that throughout history.

00:58:13.220 And there's just lots of examples of awful government programs that have been abolished.

00:58:17.120 Not as many as there should be, but there certainly have been a lot.

00:58:20.460 And so as long as we know we can do that, I'm for trying to abolish more of them.

00:58:24.980 So I think the one difference that might exist between us is that I understand power is a function of a number of things, but importantly, technology.

00:58:36.200 And I think that the state, both through social and classical technology, has gained the ability to centralize in a way that it never would have before.

00:58:46.220 I think that once that happens, all states have to scramble for this powers and arms race.

00:58:51.600 And, you know, if you're if the guy next to you gets the Levee en masse, you have to get the Levee en masse.

00:58:55.500 And if he builds nukes, you've got to build nukes.

00:58:57.480 And if you don't, you're just going to get wiped out because that's how great power politics works.

00:59:01.620 And so, you know, for a long time, technology has kind of facilitated the growth of power.

00:59:07.960 We might be getting to a point where that stops.

00:59:10.100 I think we are actually getting to a point where the complexity of society is actually a drag on it rather than a bonus to power.

00:59:19.020 And I think eventually we will see states disassemble themselves simply because they can't maintain kind of the technology that allows them to stay larger.

00:59:28.040 I mean, Yarvin's I don't know how deep you are in any of Yarvin's writings, but but one of his ideas was basically these kind of tiny Singapore is everywhere.

00:59:36.300 Right. The technology gets us to the point where that rather than having vast states, it actually advances us to the point where we can have smaller states again.

00:59:43.360 But that that kind of requires us to get, I think, through like a certain point where technology growing this the size of the state is no longer profitable to those in power.

00:59:53.100 Yeah, that's an interesting thought.

00:59:54.340 No, I haven't I haven't done enough deep Yarvin reading, but that's an interesting concept.

01:00:00.140 Let's see. The elite elite here says, happy to see you two talking again.

01:00:05.940 Love you both. John Smith for LP president presidential nominee.

01:00:10.360 What is the state of the Libertarian Party?

01:00:13.460 What are your feelings of the Libertarian Party?

01:00:15.340 Do you think it's a legitimate vehicle?

01:00:17.100 Do you think it's a joke?

01:00:18.400 What are your feelings on it?

01:00:20.500 It's both of those things.

01:00:21.880 Yes.

01:00:22.620 So it is.

01:00:23.640 Well, look, I mean, there's been some like they've had some good local wins.

01:00:27.180 I was actually just on the phone with Michael Heiss recently where he was talking about like, you know, like local mayors and sheriffs and stuff like that, where they've had some some electoral success.

01:00:35.480 I see the Libertarian Party nationally, as I've always seen it as being a like a messaging outlet.

01:00:42.420 And that's kind of the benefit of it.

01:00:45.420 And I do think ideas are powerful and that, you know, clearly the regime thinks ideas are powerful.

01:00:52.500 And that's why they spend so much effort on propagandizing the population.

01:00:56.100 So I think that the Libertarian Party, in my opinion, is much less of a joke than it has been in a long time.

01:01:03.820 And I think that it was, if nothing else, it was kind of a noble experiment to kind of de-woke-ify an organization.

01:01:16.540 And that's something that doesn't happen that often.

01:01:19.300 That's very true.

01:01:20.020 An organization goes woke and then is de-woke-ified.

01:01:23.480 And I think that is, I mean, I'm sure you could point to one little pocket here or there, but largely that is the case.

01:01:29.520 And I think that whether, you know, like you're not a Libertarian, and I'm sure a lot of people in your audience aren't.

01:01:36.360 But if you do know anything about, like, the tradition of Hans-Hermann Hoppe and Lou Rockwell and Murray Rothbard and Ron Paul and all of these, like, kind of great Libertarian thinkers, like, it's just such a disgrace to them that they would ever be lumped in with the woke insanity of what these kind of Beltway Libertarians have done to that name today.

01:01:55.400 I've made this case so often from, you know, you, Tom Woods, all these guys who I get along with.

01:02:01.120 Just, you know, new name, guys.

01:02:03.260 No, listen, but this is what we talked about last time, man.

01:02:06.260 It's like, but look, it's always debatable.

01:02:09.080 There's always a point.

01:02:10.040 You know, ceding linguistic territory is, it's kind of like a battle in war.

01:02:14.280 Like, there is a point where you got to retreat.

01:02:16.000 You know what I mean?

01:02:16.560 And like, there's, but you also can't just always be retreating or otherwise we would just say, all right, the word woman has lost its meaning.

01:02:23.840 Let's get, let's give it up and let that mean.

01:02:26.020 It's like, no, like woman was a good fight to pick because you're like, no, screw that. 1.00

01:02:30.900 This word means something.

01:02:32.060 And it means this to most people.

01:02:33.920 And likewise, like, no, Ron Paul is still what defines Libertarianism.

01:02:39.040 Sorry, you guys don't get to cut.

01:02:40.500 He's the only one who ever had any real success with that. 0.97

01:02:42.620 So screw you guys. 0.98

01:02:44.040 We're keeping this word. 0.99

01:02:45.920 We're keeping woman and we're keeping Libertarian. 0.96

01:02:48.040 And that's what it's going to mean.

01:02:49.660 Fair enough.

01:02:50.060 I disagree, but I respect your, your willingness to fight.

01:02:54.100 Cooper Weirdo says, Dave, how about this?

01:02:56.040 Do you think the left will put the woke away?

01:02:58.160 I think they're too petty.

01:02:59.560 That's my argument.

01:03:00.540 Yeah.

01:03:00.700 Me and my friend, academic agent have this ongoing bet that he believes that the regime

01:03:06.180 is smart enough and disciplined enough to realize that wokeness is unpopular and it's 0.95

01:03:10.740 tearing down certain parts of kind of what, of the stability of the engine.

01:03:15.360 And so he thinks that they're going to start kind of putting the woke away slowly but surely. 0.99

01:03:19.180 I think they're true believers.

01:03:20.360 I think they're going to keep accelerating.

01:03:21.820 What do you think?

01:03:23.380 Um, I'd probably split the difference somewhere between the two of you guys.

01:03:28.000 I think that it's the way the machine works is that it's got its tentacles and just about

01:03:35.700 all sides.

01:03:36.600 Uh, there might be somebody who's outside of, of those that, that grip here or there.

01:03:41.420 Um, but I think that, I think woke is, um, if you're asking me, are they true believers?

01:03:46.740 Lots of the foot soldiers are.

01:03:48.480 I don't believe that the people at the very top are true believers.

01:03:51.460 I don't think.

01:03:52.560 And in fact, that, that old, uh, meme, which is the, uh, like the banker in the C-suite

01:03:57.700 and occupy wall streets outside.

01:03:59.480 And he's on the phone.

01:04:00.260 He says, introduce them to identity politics.

01:04:02.120 I think that's a much better, like that, that better captures what's going on.

01:04:07.000 I think that the woke stuff has been enormously successful for them.

01:04:11.400 It may not be enormously popular, but it's been enormously successful at driving the political

01:04:17.620 conversation in this country between the left being a bunch of wokes and then the right 0.98

01:04:23.160 wing anti-woke people.

01:04:24.540 And then we're all arguing about the latest trans person given a lap dance to a five-year-old.

01:04:31.940 And meanwhile, in these years, you've had the greatest economic transfer of wealth from

01:04:38.460 the working class in America to the billionaire class.

01:04:41.580 And that started in 2008 and then continued in COVID in 2020, where you have these huge

01:04:46.400 transfers of wealth.

01:04:47.700 And I think in those times, they like pushing these social issues because the action is also

01:04:53.400 in the reaction.

01:04:54.780 You get, it's not only do you get the whole left wing completely obsessed about all this

01:04:58.720 dumb identity stuff, but then you get everybody in the right wing making their careers off just

01:05:03.720 knocking down, you know, you look at some of these people like, yeah, like, like Pierce 0.98

01:05:07.120 Morgan or someone like that, right?

01:05:09.260 Who like, uh, it was terrible on free speech, terrible on guns, terrible on lockdowns, terrible

01:05:17.840 on Ukraine, terrible on everything.

01:05:20.080 But then he'll have on his show and he'll be like, I think if you're a girl, you're a 0.98

01:05:23.440 girl and you're not a boy.

01:05:24.740 And then a bunch of right wingers are like, all right, thanks, Pierce.

01:05:27.400 I appreciate it, man.

01:05:28.460 You stick up for us there.

01:05:29.800 And so it's this perfect distraction tool.

01:05:32.320 Now, if it gets unpopular enough, my guess is that they end up funding and supporting the

01:05:37.480 anti-woke guy who will rise up to crush the whole thing.

01:05:40.720 But then they'll just be trying to play you from the other end.

01:05:43.320 That's my guess.

01:05:44.780 Fair enough.

01:05:45.400 Yeah, I do wonder, I mean, I think you're right that that's worked on the left for sure

01:05:50.020 as a distraction on the right.

01:05:51.720 However, it's, uh, kind of opened up a number of conversations that didn't exist before.

01:05:56.300 Uh, you know, the right was pretty pro corporation until, uh, kind of woke capital came around.

01:06:02.360 Uh, also discussions on, you know, uh, taking kids away under the auspices of things like

01:06:07.600 civil rights law, uh, you know, kind of open opens up a discussion that didn't exist there

01:06:11.820 before.

01:06:12.120 So I hear what you're saying and I'm sure that was their intention, but I think there

01:06:15.220 might be some downstream effects that they didn't expect on the other side.

01:06:18.500 I would agree with that.

01:06:19.600 I think that's a fair, that's a fair assessment.

01:06:22.560 We've got, uh, uh, I guess CN Doran there, uh, any update on your book or, and, uh, yeah,

01:06:28.120 thank you for asking.

01:06:28.880 I actually just got all of the manuscripts and everything locked up.

01:06:32.600 It's going to be coming out with Regnery probably early next year.

01:06:35.700 It should be going to the printers here in the next month or two.

01:06:37.780 So look for the total state guys.

01:06:39.760 Uh, we'll, we'll be coming in.

01:06:41.300 We'll be talking about a lot of people like, uh, Bertrand de Juvenal and Hanson and Hoppe

01:06:45.080 and many others.

01:06:46.080 So nice.

01:06:46.760 That sounds like my type of book.

01:06:48.540 I hope you would enjoy it.

01:06:49.800 All right.

01:06:50.420 So, uh, staffer speaks here says if the GOP does not have the will to rule, wouldn't it

01:06:56.400 make sense for our side to seek positive positions offices within the dims in order to secure

01:07:02.300 patronage for friends in the guise of aiding under the class, uh, aiding the underclass

01:07:07.040 until the GA collapses.

01:07:09.500 Yeah.

01:07:09.820 It would make perfect sense.

01:07:10.860 If you can figure out how to do that, let me know.

01:07:13.340 Uh, if seriously, if you can, by all means raid, they're going to raid the treasury anyway.

01:07:18.300 So you might as well secure, secure the bag.

01:07:21.240 Uh, if you can figure out how to, how to get under and you know, they don't get your, your

01:07:25.440 kind of conservative ant smell.

01:07:26.900 Here's the problem though.

01:07:28.140 The, the, their entire system is built on patronage.

01:07:31.400 It's funneling your tax dollars to their friends.

01:07:34.200 This is their entire thing.

01:07:35.240 So they're super hypersensitive to things going the other way.

01:07:39.440 They know exactly how this game is played and anything that's coded right wing is going

01:07:44.140 to pop immediately.

01:07:45.740 Um, so I don't know how you're going to make this work.

01:07:49.000 I don't know how, how you would get through all of that infrastructure and more importantly,

01:07:52.520 how you would move the pipeline, your direction, uh, from inside the democratic party to link

01:07:57.800 it to something that's inherently right wing.

01:07:59.600 If you can do that a hundred percent, you have my blessing and support.

01:08:03.000 I just don't know how that would work.

01:08:04.600 I don't think it would, but, but it's the right thing to do if you can do it.

01:08:10.000 Let's see.

01:08:10.680 Uh, Lev.

01:08:11.560 Uh, Hey, Lev, how's it going?

01:08:12.860 Hey, or I'm looking forward to our stream on break the rules with Peter Boghossian on

01:08:16.840 Monday.

01:08:17.180 Yes.

01:08:17.360 I'll be trying to explain why classical liberalism failed to Peter Boghossian on Monday, guys.

01:08:22.300 So make sure to check that out on break the rules.

01:08:24.240 Uh, Dave, we met at, uh, skank fest in Queens.

01:08:28.180 I had the long hair back then.

01:08:30.300 Would love to have you on for Ukraine debate.

01:08:32.420 Best way to get in touch with you.

01:08:34.220 So yeah, I'll, I'll, uh, put you in, in touch here.

01:08:37.280 Ukraine debate, but that's like our old war.

01:08:39.720 We already dumped that war. 0.99

01:08:40.880 Our new, our new hotter war.

01:08:42.900 Everybody down, everybody downloaded the update guys.

01:08:46.840 That's so, that was so two weeks ago, but thank you, Lev.

01:08:51.260 Appreciate it.

01:08:51.680 Looking forward to that show on Monday.

01:08:53.740 Uh, Deuce Boogaloo says, what do y'all think about the new civil war movie?

01:08:57.020 It feels to me like a government led propaganda project to discourage secession.

01:09:01.860 Have you seen the trailer for this yet?

01:09:03.660 I have not.

01:09:04.360 Uh, it's amazing.

01:09:05.840 It's, it's not subtle at all.

01:09:07.740 It's some, uh, some, uh, white guy standing around in paramilitary gear being like, what

01:09:13.120 kind of American do you think you are?

01:09:15.860 Like as the, as the poor immigrant child, like cries in front of him, it's, it's a sight 0.98

01:09:20.300 to behold.

01:09:20.920 It's, it's not subtle at all.

01:09:22.740 Um, but yeah, no, I, I think you're right.

01:09:24.700 Do so.

01:09:25.640 I don't think it's particularly subtle, but it is most assuredly propaganda.

01:09:28.920 Uh, let's see, Travis, uh, boast here says Josh Smith.

01:09:34.040 Uh, there's a lot of names here.

01:09:35.500 Sorry.

01:09:35.700 I'm not going to read all of those main candidates for nomination.

01:09:38.500 The nominee will be chosen by the convention delegates in May.

01:09:41.460 Okay.

01:09:41.720 So I think he's talking about, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:43.940 Libertarian.

01:09:44.680 Yeah.

01:09:44.880 Check out, uh, check out Michael Rechtenwald.

01:09:46.960 That's my guy.

01:09:47.660 And he's, uh, he's great.

01:09:49.320 Really, really smart guy.

01:09:50.780 He was a former lefty who really woke up to like the evils of like woke insanity.

01:09:55.740 And, uh, um, but he's not like a lefty, like, uh, the ones you'll criticize who left the

01:10:01.340 left.

01:10:01.580 Cause they were only upset about the latest issue that went over the line.

01:10:04.940 This guy really started reading Rothbard and Hoppe and stuff like that.

01:10:08.240 And was like, oh no, the whole thing is all is wrong.

01:10:11.060 And he did the actual conversion.

01:10:12.760 He did the actual conversion, but he's, he's great.

01:10:14.940 Um, yeah.

01:10:15.620 And then that's our convention.

01:10:16.740 There is in, uh, in May.

01:10:18.500 Excellent.

01:10:19.100 And finally, we've got Kyle Jones here.

01:10:21.100 He says, uh, for Dave, a is, uh, Nemo Parvini.

01:10:23.960 Yeah, I, I call him by his, uh, YouTube moniker, but his name's Nemo Parvini.

01:10:27.960 He's got several books under, under that name.

01:10:30.240 Uh, but yes, I will win the cigar.

01:10:31.940 We have, we have the bet for the cigar.

01:10:33.720 It is the cigar smackdown.

01:10:35.080 I am confident in my, in my bet.

01:10:37.240 And what's the bet that they won't abandon wokeism.

01:10:39.800 They will not abandon wokeism. 0.71

01:10:41.560 He's moved all the way back to 2025.

01:10:45.520 Uh, so he's, he's really hedging his bets here, but I'm confident.

01:10:48.220 I think he, he thinks they're going to go back.

01:10:50.000 He calls it going back to fresh prints.

01:10:51.460 We're just going to get kind of the nineties to taunt of, uh, you know, of, of kind of

01:10:56.040 fresh prints of Bel Air style, uh, propaganda, but not the, the heart, the hard push for

01:11:00.800 wokeism that we've received previously.

01:11:02.780 I don't know.

01:11:03.320 You know, it seems like it, it, it, you'd almost have to tell me like, how do you define

01:11:08.660 the woke propaganda?

01:11:09.560 Because some of it does seem like the toothpaste is out of the tube and just isn't going back.

01:11:14.700 Um, but yeah, no, I think it's essential to their ruling.

01:11:20.000 I think they have to homogenize culture in order to, to manage their systems across multiple

01:11:25.120 nation states.

01:11:25.860 They can't allow peoples to be particular and different.

01:11:28.080 They have to collapse all religions and cultures and, and, and ways of being into kind of like 1.00

01:11:33.140 the same, you know, uh, you know, gay race communism. 0.95

01:11:36.200 Right.

01:11:36.800 So that, that, that, that part can't go away.

01:11:39.220 It's mechanical to their ruling.

01:11:40.620 They might, they might be able to dial back some of the more egregious and, and, but overall

01:11:45.760 it has to continue to exist.

01:11:46.920 Also just the, look, I mean, the, the, the demographics in this country just have changed

01:11:51.580 so much.

01:11:52.560 And it's just, it's not the same country that it was when I, you know, I grew up in the

01:11:56.460 eighties.

01:11:56.940 It's just, it's not that country anymore.

01:11:58.580 And there's almost, I mean, I don't know, maybe you disagree with me, but I don't, to

01:12:02.380 some degree, it's like if conservatives were going to fight against the changing racial

01:12:07.420 demographics in the country, then the time to do it was like in the eighties, it's not

01:12:11.660 now it's almost like too late where there's going to be whatever comes next after this

01:12:16.500 is going almost definitely to be in a white minority United States of America.

01:12:22.860 I don't know.

01:12:23.900 I don't know what policy could reverse that, but the only ones I can envision are pretty

01:12:28.260 gruesome that they'd probably be worse than whatever problems we're dealing with now.

01:12:31.980 So there is some element of like how, you know, like, like the, the regimes would always

01:12:38.460 have some racial element and how they pit people against each other or how they try to

01:12:42.860 maintain their rule.

01:12:44.180 I don't know exactly what it'll be going forward, but it's going to be some of that.

01:12:47.660 Yeah, no, they're good.

01:12:48.660 They're going to keep that dynamic up for sure.

01:12:50.420 I mean, it is the most effective political dynamic.

01:12:52.960 Again, another problem with democracy, uh, when, you know, any given democracy, the incentive

01:12:58.380 is to create racial animus, it's the most reliable button to, to, to kind of, and which is why

01:13:04.240 you have had, you know, multiracial, uh, uh, empires, but they have always been empires

01:13:08.780 that there's, there's been a force that has governed them that is outside kind of the racial

01:13:13.120 divides and is able to make decisions apart from them.

01:13:16.500 If you're asking people, you know, to, to, to compel behavior through, uh, voting, then,

01:13:21.460 you know, racial fault lines are the easiest one to manipulate.

01:13:25.120 And so they're going to continue to exacerbate those.

01:13:27.380 Yeah.

01:13:28.380 All right, guys, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up, Dave.

01:13:31.340 It has been a pleasure talking to you again.

01:13:33.240 It was, it was good to finally disagree with you for a whole, like, like 15 minutes there.

01:13:37.360 Uh, if people want to find your work, what should they be looking for?

01:13:41.120 Uh, uh, comic Dave Smith dot.com.

01:13:43.480 That's my website and has all my, my tour dates and stuff like that on it.

01:13:46.900 And then, uh, part of the problem it's available everywhere.

01:13:49.540 You get podcasts and, uh, comic Dave Smith is my Twitter handle.

01:13:53.060 If you want to follow me there.

01:13:54.900 Excellent guys.

01:13:55.540 We'll make sure that you're checking out Dave's stuff.

01:13:57.460 And of course, if it's your first time on this channel, make sure you go ahead and subscribe.

01:14:01.220 If you'd like to get the broadcast as podcasts, you can check out the Oro McIntyre show on your

01:14:05.340 favorite podcast platform.

01:14:06.880 If you do, please make sure to leave that rating and review.

01:14:09.700 It helps with the algorithm magic.

01:14:11.420 All right, guys, wrapping this up.

01:14:13.120 Once again, it's been great to talk to all of you and I'll see you next time.

01:14:17.000 We'll see you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - December 14, 2023

Forever War ｜ Guest： Dave Smith ｜ 12⧸14⧸23

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