The Auron MacIntyre Show - Gaetano Mosca and Juridical Defense ｜ 1⧸22⧸25

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00:00:30.000 Good afternoon. How's it going, everybody? Thanks for joining me. I am Oren McIntyre.

00:00:38.200 Obviously, a lot going on with the third day of Trump's presidency.

00:00:44.180 The hits have continued to come. The executive orders have continued to flow.

00:00:50.660 We have seen the issuing of a repeal of affirmative action, at least from the executive side of things.

00:00:58.600 And just more and more, Trump is allowing people to be deported, apparently, without any kind of need for asylum.

00:01:09.340 The asylum process. I'm looking more into that, see how these things are kind of flowing fast and furious.

00:01:15.900 So we're going to continue to check those out.

00:01:17.360 Actually, on Friday, I'm going to have Jeremy Carl on, and we're going to get in with some more depth on the official nature of these different executive orders,

00:01:27.600 how they impact specifically affirmative action and many of the other things that Trump has promised to work on.

00:01:33.140 So we'll do a deeper dive on that. That's not the topic of today's show.

00:01:37.600 But obviously, just wanted to point out that Trump is taking action.

00:01:42.040 He's doing what he can with the executive pin.

00:01:46.320 And obviously, there's a lot more to get done.

00:01:49.680 The executive orders, anything that is done with them can be undone with them.

00:01:53.980 And so you do need to submit these things into law.

00:01:57.760 The changes that he has made to birthright citizenship and other things are monumental changes.

00:02:02.840 They are huge wins if they stick around.

00:02:05.140 So they need to be solidified.

00:02:07.520 But of course, that will take more time.

00:02:09.540 But in just the first few days that he has had this power, he has wielded it quite significantly.

00:02:17.880 It is very much what we had hoped.

00:02:20.500 Again, we're only 10 yards in.

00:02:23.000 There's still 90 more to go.

00:02:25.020 But the first down is there.

00:02:26.980 It looks good.

00:02:28.580 I'll continue with the sports metaphors until we get there.

00:02:31.140 But we are seeing very positive action early on, very encouraging.

00:02:35.740 So that's not going to be, again, the core of this episode.

00:02:39.380 But I just wanted to get out there and say, very impressed early on.

00:02:43.480 It looks like Trump is focused, dedicated.

00:02:45.740 He has a much better vision.

00:02:47.940 And the people around him have a much better vision.

00:02:49.900 They were prepared to hit the ground running.

00:02:52.760 And that is extremely encouraging.

00:02:55.880 That said, the topic of today's stream is going to be judicial defense.

00:03:03.280 Now, juridical defense is a concept that you do not hear about a lot in elite theory.

00:03:12.100 Most people hear elite theory and they say, okay, elites are in charge.

00:03:16.880 Decisions are made by those at the top.

00:03:19.280 There's always an organized ruling class.

00:03:21.320 And they're the ones that wield power.

00:03:23.100 And it's really easy because those are all really important points of elite theory to believe that that's kind of all there is to it.

00:03:31.060 Okay, we have these elites.

00:03:32.800 They are really the ones that make the decisions.

00:03:34.720 They're the ones that set the rules.

00:03:36.940 That basically just means that power can do whatever it wants, right?

00:03:39.840 Like, you know, big surprise.

00:03:41.160 The people at the top have all the power.

00:03:43.100 They wield the power any way they want.

00:03:44.960 That's the end of the story.

00:03:46.280 But that's not the end of the story.

00:03:47.980 It's actually far more complicated.

00:03:50.220 And a big part of that is juridical defense.

00:03:52.620 Now, this comes from Gaetano Mosca.

00:03:55.480 His work, The Ruling Class, is one of the most critical foundational texts when it comes to elite theory.

00:04:05.060 You can actually get this now.

00:04:06.760 It's actually reasonable to pick up.

00:04:08.600 I had to originally read it as some kind of PDF pulled off a website.

00:04:13.640 But today, they're finally printing copies at a reasonable price.

00:04:18.580 You used to have to pay $300, $400 sometimes to get an actual physical copy.

00:04:24.200 Today, it is something that you can pick up on, you know, Amazon or something for, you know, $20, something like that.

00:04:30.980 So if you want to read the actual book, and it's, I would say, a challenging read for someone who's not familiar with political theory.

00:04:40.740 But it is not extremely difficult.

00:04:44.160 It is not, it's not Hegel.

00:04:46.240 It's not, you know, critical theory.

00:04:48.640 It's not one of these where he's spinning you around with all of these technical terms trying to confuse you.

00:04:54.260 You need a decoder ring.

00:04:55.840 It's not even Nick Land.

00:04:57.100 It's, you know, it's readable.

00:04:59.440 It's challenging from the sense that the, you know, the topic is dense and complex.

00:05:04.300 But he is not writing in a way that obscures what you're trying to understand.

00:05:08.020 So if you want to read The Ruling Class for yourself, I wouldn't say accessible is the word, but it's a mountain you can climb.

00:05:14.820 I think if you put your time into it, it's not something that you're just going to go through and say, I have no idea what this was trying to say.

00:05:23.180 So getting to the actual topic at hand.

00:05:27.120 And like I said, Gitano Mosca, one of the foundational guys when it comes to elite theory.

00:05:32.820 And again, while he makes the point that the ruling elites are the ones that make all of the biggest decisions, ultimately, that one of the things that defines a good and just nation, one that is a society that you want to live in,

00:05:49.640 is the fact that power is actually constrained in some way, that there are rules that everyone, even the powerful, ultimately have to obey, or at least if not have to obey, are encouraged to obey.

00:06:04.660 And we'll kind of get to the difference there in a second.

00:06:08.020 So one of the things that people don't understand about power, one of the things that is often confused, is that there are different states of order, right?

00:06:20.220 And this is often a mistake that conservatives and libertarians make, is they think that you just kind of start with liberty.

00:06:28.060 And if you have a country that is based on liberty, if you have a nation that is based on liberty, then everything else flows from that.

00:06:35.760 But that's actually the wrong way to understand social organization.

00:06:40.500 All society begins, I guess you can kind of say at some level, in states of disorder, and they move towards states of order.

00:06:49.720 That's kind of what you're doing when you're building a society.

00:06:52.440 You are starting in disorder.

00:06:54.040 You have the state of nature, though that's not real.

00:06:57.240 We're not embracing kind of the Hobbesian or Lockean understanding of state of nature here.

00:07:02.800 Just saying you have a situation in which there is not a lot of order.

00:07:08.080 The society is rather loose.

00:07:09.800 There's not a lot of formal order.

00:07:11.880 And then you increase that level of order.

00:07:14.540 And so at your base level, you kind of have war, right?

00:07:16.700 Like that's the least organized, least orderly state is a state of war.

00:07:22.300 And then you move from a state of war to a state of monopoly of violence, right?

00:07:29.300 Like once there is one person or one organization that has control of kind of the application of violence inside a society, you move from a state of war to at least a state of managed peace, right?

00:07:45.260 You have some level of peace and order inside your society.

00:07:49.440 So you go from war to order, and then you go from order to law, right?

00:07:56.480 Law is the next step where, you know, first you just had people fighting each other.

00:08:00.820 Then you have, you know, the monopoly on violence is sealed into one organization or person.

00:08:06.140 They have authority, but that authority is not checked by anything, right?

00:08:10.820 So it's better than war because you don't have this constant fighting.

00:08:14.060 You don't have the war of all against all, the Hobbesian state.

00:08:18.320 But you, it's not still ideal because all the power is concentrated in one organization or one person, and they can kind of do whatever they want.

00:08:27.620 And so the average person is kind of stripped of any rights, any ability to defend what is theirs.

00:08:34.180 There's no private property, really, ultimately, because the person in charge can just kind of do what they want.

00:08:39.960 So you go from war to order, then you go from order to law, and law is constraining the power of those that have the monopoly on violence, those that have the ability to wield the power of the state.

00:08:56.380 And finally, then you can have the opportunity to cultivate liberty, right?

00:09:02.440 Once you have gone from war to order, order to law, then if you have a judicial defense, which is what we're going to talk about today, you have the opportunity of liberty.

00:09:16.080 So judicial defense is a critical step in kind of your ascending the orders of civilization.

00:09:23.080 You want that to be there as part of your civilization.

00:09:26.560 That's going to do a lot to define the lives of the people living inside your society.

00:09:33.900 So Gaetano Mosca says that, yes, you, of course, we want order, right?

00:09:39.380 We want to move from the state of war to the state of order, but we don't want to just stay in the state of order.

00:09:44.700 Yes, the elites are going to have the power.

00:09:46.220 It's going to be concentrated there.

00:09:47.740 It's going to run things, but we want to move to the next level.

00:09:52.540 We want something that constrains that power.

00:09:55.380 Now, the problem for, again, a lot of conservatives and libertarians, they think the way that you constrain power is just by saying it, right?

00:10:02.860 Like you write it down on a piece of paper.

00:10:04.960 We made a law.

00:10:06.020 We have the law now.

00:10:07.160 We're using the law.

00:10:08.600 You have to follow the law.

00:10:09.780 We can point to it.

00:10:10.980 Constitution says it right there.

00:10:12.500 You got to do it.

00:10:13.720 That doesn't work.

00:10:14.940 That is insufficient, right?

00:10:16.560 And Gatano Mosca says this specifically.

00:10:21.700 You can claim that everyone is equal before the law, but that is useless.

00:10:26.260 That does nothing.

00:10:27.060 He points to many historical examples in which people have declared themselves to be, or rather declared their nation to have equality before the law, but in practice, it never happens, right?

00:10:38.640 Like they announce that, but then in function, it never occurs.

00:10:44.080 So it's not enough to just say that that exists.

00:10:47.520 You actually need something that enforces these, right?

00:10:51.040 So you need this juridical defense, right?

00:10:53.620 And so when you're instantiating this, it has to be more than just a piece of paper somewhere, something you've written down.

00:11:02.440 It is something that you want to have imposed through opposing power, right?

00:11:08.540 If you've ever heard me talk about Bertrand de Juvenal, you recognize that this is something that he and Gatano Mosca agree on, is ultimately what creates opposing sets of, or what creates a restriction on power is opposing sets of power, or what Gatano Mosca calls social forces, right?

00:11:30.940 So these social forces oppose each other, and that's what actually creates this defense, right?

00:11:37.080 That's what actually creates this way in which that power can be constrained.

00:11:42.400 It's not constrained by the law itself, just the written document.

00:11:46.820 It's constrained by other social forces that will be able to push back against what they are doing.

00:11:52.520 Sorry, one second.

00:11:53.160 All right, so he says that this defense is ultimately a core respect for government and law.

00:12:08.860 And so the amount of respect for government and law in any society is really going to define the quality of life of the people living inside of it.

00:12:19.720 And he says often that this is thrown into chaos during times of technological and economic advancement.

00:12:27.140 So this is something that can exist in your society, but then can kind of be suspended as like radical changes.

00:12:35.660 And so when we see technological and economic advancement, we can think of it as a good thing, but it's actually something that can throw kind of the respect for law and order and government into periods of chaos.

00:12:45.940 So we kind of think of this progress as a constantly good thing, but it might not be for the people who are living under it in certain situations.

00:12:54.320 Yeah, maybe you have quality of life increases because like new medical technologies come out or you can feed more people and that's great.

00:13:00.500 But those are also going to create like social revolutionary forces that are going to upend the different ways in which your society was balanced.

00:13:09.620 Because again, social forces are what actually creates the ability to have this defense, to have this codification of law and this respect for the law.

00:13:20.500 The political organization of your society is what is going to determine the way that this defense takes place.

00:13:28.700 So, you know, it's not just something that emerges out of nowhere.

00:13:33.240 Your society needs to have a certain level of complexity and organization, a way in which it is formed so that this can exist.

00:13:41.280 And again, he says the worst scenario, right, the way in which this is least evident is when all of your power is unified in one place.

00:13:52.240 So he, despite being an elite theorist, right, he's not actually for absolutism.

00:13:57.200 He thinks that absolutism is going to quickly dissolve kind of the quality of life of people inside your society.

00:14:05.740 And ultimately, you don't want these super simple unified powers to exist or your ability to have judicial defense is just going to, it's going to fall apart, right?

00:14:17.000 It's going to fall apart.

00:14:18.040 And so any scenario where your power is completely unified in one place is kind of the lowest level.

00:14:25.320 Again, it creates, it moves you from the level of war to the level of order, but it's not ideal.

00:14:32.720 You don't want to stay there.

00:14:33.980 You need additional complexity.

00:14:36.120 You need additional divisions of power for this to really work.

00:14:41.420 And he goes with the classic, you know, Aristotle, Polybius, you know, the classic assertion that the mixed constitution is what actually restrains power, right?

00:14:52.120 That that's what really creates the most balanced society.

00:14:56.720 And so he says, we want to see these emergent social forces that are going to allow for the mixed constitution.

00:15:02.060 But the thing is, you can't just kind of will them into existence.

00:15:06.100 They have to be real organic forces in your society or no one is going to respect and follow them, right?

00:15:12.740 So if you have, you know, the king and then you're just like, well, we'll just kind of create these other social forces and they'll be the ones that kind of dial back his power.

00:15:21.620 That's not going to work because no one's going to respect those social forces.

00:15:25.520 They're just going to follow what the guy with power says.

00:15:28.300 You need real organic forces that kind of emerge inside your society that wield true power and can kind of constrict what that original bringer of order had.

00:15:40.360 The bringer of order is still really important, to be clear.

00:15:43.200 He's not disrespecting the bringing of order.

00:15:45.640 He's not saying that we don't want that.

00:15:46.980 He recognizes this as a critical step towards the betterment of society and the complexity of society.

00:15:53.080 But ultimately, you have to move beyond that.

00:15:55.840 It is not enough to just have that kind of unified singular power.

00:16:02.160 You need organizations that are going to go ahead and push back against it.

00:16:06.720 Again, not just because you wrote them down on paper, not just we said there are three branches of government, so therefore they push back.

00:16:12.860 No, you actually need real organic sources of these social forces that are going to say no and they're going to have a foundation deep in kind of the custom tradition, understanding and day-to-day life of the people that you are interacting with.

00:16:31.980 So, sorry, check my notes here real quick.

00:16:36.320 I got lost for a second.

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00:17:15.240 There we go.

00:17:16.000 Okay.

00:17:16.740 So, yeah, the power of the social forces have to be organic.

00:17:20.500 And so he kind of goes through all the ways in which you want to kind of follow the development of this defense, right?

00:17:30.540 How is the average person going to be secure in their private property?

00:17:35.140 How are they going to know that power is not just going to come around and rip away from them what they built?

00:17:40.220 You want a certain level of security in that ability, right?

00:17:44.340 To have that in your society.

00:17:47.240 If people are constantly worried that the tyrannical king can just come by and tear up, you know, whatever they've made, I've accumulated wealth or property, I've built this thing, you know, my family, like I value all these things and, you know, the power can just rip it away.

00:18:02.080 Then you create a great degree of instability in your society and you also remove the incentive for people to build things on their own.

00:18:10.320 Again, I'm not telling libertarians anything they don't know here, right?

00:18:13.540 Private property is kind of the basic thing that incentivizes people to build and create.

00:18:20.000 So you need that.

00:18:21.380 And so he kind of runs through the ways in which those social forces are created that will give you that level of security.

00:18:32.120 The first thing he suggests, he says, the very first thing you need to do if you want to create opposing social forces is you need to break away the secular and ecclesiastical powers.

00:18:46.260 And you might have heard of this separation of church and state, right?

00:18:50.120 Now, it's not exactly the separation of church and state that we think of today, the like hyper Reddit atheist version of it.

00:18:56.640 What he's really saying is you don't want your you don't want your priest caste to rule your entire civilization because the power of the divine is too much.

00:19:07.980 It's, you know, and he recognizes, you know, Gartano Mosca is not against religion.

00:19:11.680 He recognizes the power of religion, the necessity of religion.

00:19:15.140 He says that this is one of the things that helps civilization, though.

00:19:18.780 He's not 100 percent sold.

00:19:21.080 You know, he points out that, you know, Ethiopia is a Christian society and, you know, high civilizations in Europe are Christian societies.

00:19:27.220 So just pointing to religion and saying that's sufficient to understand the constraint of government or social forces, that that's not enough.

00:19:35.220 So but he's not anti-religion, right?

00:19:37.340 He's not he's not attacking religion.

00:19:39.160 He's not saying it's useless.

00:19:40.480 He's not saying that this is what you you don't need this.

00:19:43.780 He's just saying, ultimately, you don't want your priest caste to be running the society, because if if their word is law, right, if the king is just completely divine, if he is the the god emperor, then there is no way you're ever going to get any opposing social forces because you've unified the two most important social social forces in any given society.

00:20:04.660 So there's never going to be any kind of opposition.

00:20:07.220 He's really recognizing the power of religion there as an opposing social force.

00:20:11.340 And he says, you want that outside, right?

00:20:14.000 You want that outside instead of being completely locked into into the ruler.

00:20:22.880 You don't want the divine and the ruler to be the same thing.

00:20:24.920 So that's kind of the first thing that you need to do in order to create the possibility of opposing social forces.

00:20:32.100 You want the church to be able to push back against the state and the state to be able to push back against the church.

00:20:36.740 You don't want them unified into one thing completely.

00:20:39.820 That doesn't mean that the state needs to be entirely secular.

00:20:43.220 It doesn't mean it needs to not recognize religious tradition or identity.

00:20:47.520 It's you just don't want them to be exactly the same thing.

00:20:50.540 You know, that's more of what the founders had in vision when they were kind of avoiding the establishment clause.

00:20:56.900 It's it's not, you know, oh, we can't have any religion in our society.

00:21:00.500 It should never inform our laws or what we do.

00:21:03.580 We just don't want it to be exactly the same.

00:21:05.760 The religious power and the government power should not be one to one.

00:21:09.360 The next thing he says that you need to do is you need to think about how you're going to distribute kind of wealth and power in society.

00:21:19.260 And here he's not saying, you know, well, we need to have some kind of central communist, you know, structure that's going to unify the economy or decide where money is going to go.

00:21:29.720 What he means is basically you want a middle class.

00:21:32.580 That's really what he's talking about is you need to develop a middle class, because if all the power and money is going to be unified into just the ruling elite, then their interest is going to be all that matters.

00:21:45.280 There's going to be no pushback against it.

00:21:48.000 There's going to be no opposing social force, because just like if you have all the power concentrated into the divine, there's going to be no, you know, no opposing forces to each other.

00:21:56.860 If you have all the money and wealth and power in one class entirely, then there will be no opposition to them.

00:22:03.220 And again, he's not saying there won't be an elite class or ruling class that you need to abolish the ruling elite, get rid of the idea of the ruling elite.

00:22:10.040 He designed the elite theory.

00:22:12.720 He very much understands that there will always be a ruling elite.

00:22:16.000 But he is saying that if there is if it's all unified in that ruling elite, if there are no other stakeholders in your society, no other classes that have permanent property and wield authority,

00:22:26.660 then you can't get opposing social forces because everyone is so dependent on the ruling class on the upper class that they never really have any kind of pushback.

00:22:36.220 And so it's really important that you kind of create a middle class so that there are people who are landed, who own property, who are kind of outside the system that is completely ruled by the elites so that you don't have this complete monopoly on power at the top.

00:22:52.720 You know, the high and low of the juvenile versus the middle is trying to get rid of that.

00:22:58.000 Right. So so the juvenile points out that power is always trying to get rid of that middle class for this reason, because it recognizes this middle class as an opposing social force.

00:23:08.320 And that's so it's naturally working against that.

00:23:10.940 But if you're not just interested in your own power, if you're interested in the good of society, you actually do want that middle class.

00:23:17.620 So it can continuously act as a bulwark against abuses.

00:23:22.720 You want those opposing social forces, right?

00:23:25.660 You want an expansion of those social forces by the way in which wealth and power is distributed inside your society.

00:23:35.200 Another thing that he points out is that you really need time and organization.

00:23:41.080 So another reason you need a middle class is that they're going to have the spare time.

00:23:47.620 To create organizations that can push back against kind of the concentration of power.

00:23:54.080 So you can't have a formal defense if there aren't organizations that are working to push back against the powerful.

00:24:03.680 If you have a middle class who has excess wealth and some leisure time, they have the time to organize.

00:24:09.340 And when you have the time to organize, you have the ability to create different institutions that are serving your interests.

00:24:16.500 And so you can have different community organizations who are recognizing the needs of the people in your area and that can push back against just the ability of the ruling class to step in and control everything all the time.

00:24:29.680 You want people to have the ability to go to churches, community organizations, fraternities, guilds, unions, all of these things so that they don't always have to go to the organizations that are created or go to the direct power of the ruling class.

00:24:46.140 That you want to have a middle class and its opportunity to appeal to those organizations so they can push back. 0.51

00:24:52.640 And this is, again, where you get this idea of the defense.

00:24:57.280 You also need time in the sense of you need tradition, right?

00:25:01.520 You need time in the sense that you need time to organize so that you can push back.

00:25:06.580 But you also need tradition.

00:25:08.320 This, again, it's not enough just to say, well, we're going to manufacture a middle class tomorrow and that'll restrain the power of the elite.

00:25:15.080 No, you need to build traditions in your society.

00:25:19.140 Ideally, the organic traditions of your society will cultivate that middle class, right? 0.64

00:25:25.240 The complexity of your society is not flat.

00:25:27.920 It's not just the ruler off top with all of the power and money and then just everybody else doing their own thing.

00:25:34.080 They don't have any organization.

00:25:35.560 They don't have any tradition.

00:25:37.000 They don't have any organic understanding of their place in society and the way in which they can organize for their own advantage.

00:25:43.300 You know, you want to have those traditions that kind of inculcate that for people in different generations because the longer institutions exist, the longer they are respected and the more they will have to be respected by the ruling class.

00:25:58.140 The ruling class does not want you to have traditions, which is the opposite of what most people think, right?

00:26:04.300 Like most people think that, oh, conservatives are trying to keep traditions because that's what holds people down, right?

00:26:10.280 Like that's always the narrative that you heard from kind of progressives is that the traditions of the society are there to hold you down, keep you in place, do what the man tells you to do.

00:26:20.620 But actually, Mosca is saying very much the opposite, that these traditions restrain the ruler much more than they restrain the ruled.

00:26:30.880 Because ultimately what you're looking for, as always, you'll see this theme over and over again.

00:26:36.460 I've talked about it quite a bit and it comes up in pretty much every thinker that I talk about.

00:26:41.180 You need virtue, right?

00:26:43.100 What you're looking for ultimately is people who restrain themselves and expect the government to also be restrained by the same rules.

00:26:51.920 Because the government is looking and saying, oh, well, we can't actually force people to do this because they're disciplined, they're controlled, they have accumulated power and organized their own institutions.

00:27:04.360 And so there's only so much we can demand from them because they exist in that state.

00:27:10.380 Unvirtuous people, people who are given to vice, people who are not organized, people who are slovenly, they're weak, they don't have strong family bonds, they don't have strong identities, they don't have strong religions. 0.99

00:27:22.300 Those people are easy to manipulate, easy to rule.

00:27:25.460 Again, the flatness of the society, right?

00:27:27.740 You've just got all the money, all the organization, all the power up top, and then you've got everybody else at the bottom.

00:27:35.060 That is not going, there's no defense in that scenario.

00:27:38.240 There's nothing for the average person to appeal to, right?

00:27:42.400 But if you have a situation where there's a strong middle class and they are creating organizations, they are virtuous, they are organized, they are taking the time and intentionality to create this.

00:27:53.320 There's a strong tradition of expecting those organizations and those beliefs and those family bonds and ties and communities to be restricted, respected.

00:28:02.160 If that exists, then power can't, is just looking at that and saying, you know, I don't think I can do that.

00:28:08.920 I actually don't think I can do that.

00:28:10.660 And ideally, they won't want to do that, right?

00:28:13.120 Because they will themselves be restrained by those very same traditions and expectations.

00:28:18.060 But again, it's kind of the inverse of what you would expect if you were listening to progressives.

00:28:25.500 Oh, the tradition is what's tying up, tying you down.

00:28:28.840 No, because you are tied down, because you are disciplined, because you are virtuous, you can resist the efforts of the elite to control you.

00:28:39.160 Like actually building that community, building those bonds, keeping them healthy, building those alternative social forces that push back and provide defense actually strengthens your ability to refuse power.

00:28:52.580 That's what guarantees your private property, your rights, as we call them in the United States today, right?

00:29:00.400 Because if you have those expectations, the rights don't come from the Constitution.

00:29:07.900 The Constitution doesn't give you the rights.

00:29:09.860 Now, in the Constitution, we say they're God-given rights, right?

00:29:12.700 And that's true in a sense.

00:29:14.740 But on the earth here, as it's practiced, how power is actually constrained, the reason that those rights are so resilient is because people believe in them.

00:29:24.440 In the sense that, oh, they are given to me by God.

00:29:27.500 And because I believe in them, the people around me believe in them.

00:29:31.380 We all respect them.

00:29:32.560 They're built into the way we interact with each other day to day.

00:29:36.120 So I believe completely that you have a freedom of speech.

00:29:39.960 I believe you have the right to own a firearm.

00:29:42.200 I believe in your right to a trial and you being secured in your papers in person.

00:29:47.440 Like, these things are believed on a fundamental level by everyone in the society, and so therefore they are real.

00:29:53.560 And that's not fake.

00:29:55.800 And it's really important because, again, a lot of people look at that and they'll just say, oh, well, you know, power just does whatever it wants.

00:30:02.380 And all that stuff is fake.

00:30:03.700 All of those beliefs are fake.

00:30:05.100 So as soon as power disrespects them, they can just tear them down.

00:30:08.040 No, that's exactly the opposite of what Mosca is saying in the ruling class.

00:30:12.120 He's saying that, no, these things are very real if everyone is invested in them, if everyone believes in them.

00:30:17.720 The political formula is not just a noble lie.

00:30:20.760 It's not just a lie that power tells to stay in power.

00:30:24.920 It is something that power believes ultimately and that the people believe.

00:30:30.380 And that reciprocal belief is what imbues it with the power to restrain government and restrain the behavior of the people.

00:30:38.660 It gives government its power, but it simultaneously restrains its power as well.

00:30:43.360 And so if you have a constitution that just says, well, you wave it around like, I've got free speech because it says so right here.

00:30:50.860 No, I've got free speech because if the government tries to lock me up, me and all of my friends who also believe in free speech are going to fight back.

00:30:58.960 And we've got the backing of the church and we've got the backing of the community and we've got the backing of every social organization that is existing because we are working together toward a shared moral vision.

00:31:11.020 We have this innate understanding of who we are as a people, and this is how we conduct ourselves.

00:31:16.500 So if power steps in and says, oh, well, actually, we're going to arrest you for conducting yourself that way.

00:31:21.760 No, you aren't.

00:31:22.960 Because most people are going to refuse to even comply.

00:31:25.920 You're going to have so much noncompliance.

00:31:27.540 You're going to have police and soldiers that won't do it because they already believe this at the core, that every one of these expectations is layered in to your belief system.

00:31:36.920 The social forces are too great.

00:31:38.640 And that is what gives you this juridical defense, right?

00:31:42.440 That's what actually creates the defense. 0.90

00:31:45.000 And again, this is what Mosca expects from a complex and good society.

00:31:49.860 He does not expect power to be able to do whatever it wants, whenever it wants.

00:31:56.840 When I found out my friend got a great deal on a designer dress from Winners, I started wondering, is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:32:05.220 Like that woman over there with the Italian leather handbag. 1.00

00:32:08.680 Is that from Winners?

00:32:09.860 Ooh, or that beautiful silk skirt. 0.99

00:32:12.400 Did she pay full price?

00:32:13.640 Or those suede sneakers?

00:32:15.200 Or that luggage?

00:32:16.300 Or that trench?

00:32:17.420 Those jeans?

00:32:18.140 That jacket?

00:32:18.860 Those heels? 1.00

00:32:19.740 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:32:22.680 Stop wondering.

00:32:23.980 Start winning.

00:32:24.900 Winners.

00:32:25.460 Find fabulous for less.

00:32:29.000 All right.

00:32:30.080 So another thing that, so those are the things that you need to do to build this kind of defense.

00:32:35.220 You need opposing social forces.

00:32:37.200 You need to separate the divine and the secular, at least again, not purging the divine, not denying the existence of the divine, not saying we don't appeal to the defined principles when we're creating law, but just that the actual enforcement mechanism, the governance itself is not priestly.

00:32:54.020 It is done by a separate force so that these, you know, the kind of the government force and the religious force can oppose each other.

00:33:01.860 They can push up against each other.

00:33:03.540 So you need to do that.

00:33:05.540 You need to just make sure that power and money are distributed somewhat in your society, that you build a middle class that is able to push back against these forces.

00:33:15.740 You need time and tradition, right?

00:33:18.680 You need time and organization and tradition to cultivate all of this stuff.

00:33:24.040 So this is the stuff that he says it's going to stand against it, right?

00:33:27.600 That's going to push back.

00:33:28.900 Now, the thing he says to watch out for, the thing that you really need to watch out for is the unification of a principle or a pattern.

00:33:38.760 So he says if one principle or pattern comes to dominate your society, then it's going to start to dissolve these opposing social forces.

00:33:49.560 You need to watch out if everyone and every aspect of your society starts to get organized upon one line, that's bad, right?

00:33:58.020 So what we actually want is our church to be organized in a very different way than our government, which is organized in a very different way than our businesses, which is organized in a very different way than our family structures, which is organized in a somewhat different way than our community structures, right?

00:34:16.320 Each one of these different forces needs to be organized on different principles.

00:34:22.540 Once you start organizing everything on the same principle, even if they were opposing social forces, they will start to dissolve and become one thing, right?

00:34:33.800 If you've watched this channel before, you probably know where I'm going with this.

00:34:38.000 This is the problem of managerialism.

00:34:40.720 This is the problem of modernity.

00:34:42.880 This is what creates the total state.

00:34:45.660 Because if you start with a bunch of different social forces that you are relying on to push back against each other, and then you start organizing everything on one principle, all these different social forces that were separated and creating that tension and creating that defense against power, they start to come together.

00:35:04.740 And all of a sudden, you get one unified whole.

00:35:07.920 And in the modern world, this kind of managerial, utilitarian, entirely secular understanding creates a unifying principle, right?

00:35:21.200 We all have to organize everything on the principle of massified, secular, kind of deracinated bureaucracy.

00:35:30.640 That is what everything needs to be organized on.

00:35:33.940 I don't care if it is your, if it's your church, I don't care if it's your government, I don't care if it's your business, you know, you're even dating is, you know, it gets done by dating apps now, right?

00:35:45.340 They all get collapsed into the same type of organization.

00:35:49.600 The church is run like a business.

00:35:51.320 The government needs to be run like a business.

00:35:53.540 In fact, these are considered positive steps by a lot of people, right?

00:35:57.260 I want my government to run more like a business.

00:35:59.300 I want my church to run more like a business because that's more efficient.

00:36:02.440 I'm going to start running my household like a business, you know, like people say stuff like this.

00:36:07.080 They really think it.

00:36:08.260 In fact, we just had, you know, Vivek Ramaswamy's back on Twitter, you know, making, you know, gym posts once again.

00:36:16.580 And he made a post about meritocracy and right.

00:36:20.080 We need to have this unified meritocracy and, you know, kind of pointed out that, well, meritocracy is often good.

00:36:26.140 But if you do everything is a meritocracy, you'll kind of ruin it.

00:36:29.920 If you run your family as a meritocracy, you're going to destroy your family.

00:36:34.980 If you run your church as a meritocracy, you'll destroy your church.

00:36:38.480 Now, meritocracy has a place, right?

00:36:39.980 I want my dentist or my surgeon to be selected for merit.

00:36:45.760 I really want a meritocracy in that scenario.

00:36:48.440 But you don't want to run your house entirely as a meritocracy or you're going to have serious problems.

00:36:54.640 So it's not that meritocracy is bad.

00:36:56.760 It's just that it's not one tool all the time, right?

00:37:00.400 It's not one unified thing.

00:37:02.260 And that's always the danger.

00:37:03.960 If you'll notice, like that's always the danger you run into is when you try to do this grand unifying theory.

00:37:10.360 Because the real world is actually complex.

00:37:13.040 It's far more complex than you know and that you understand.

00:37:17.200 One human actually doesn't grasp everything.

00:37:20.400 That's why tradition is so important.

00:37:23.100 Because you as an individual, as rational as you might be, you're never going to understand everything.

00:37:29.400 You are not smarter than the collective wisdom of your civilization.

00:37:33.400 So even though you think you have reasoned your way to the best thing, actually it's often better to appeal and follow traditions even if you don't understand them.

00:37:44.760 And that's really the hubris of modern man is like, well, every person will just decide for themselves.

00:37:50.360 Well, actually, no, they won't.

00:37:52.320 Because if you think that you're going to read every single individual you meet can reason their way to the truth, then you haven't met very many individuals and you're not very honest with yourself kind of about your own limitations.

00:38:02.960 And the same is true when it comes to social organization, right?

00:38:07.180 If we are organizing our society entirely in one way and every single thing we do is based on this like mass bureaucratic, highly scalable model from our family structures, our dating, our religion, our businesses, our government, our social interactions, everything is based on this model.

00:38:27.860 You start to dissolve all of those social forces that pushed back against power and power once again, because it becomes unified and you know, it's like a fire without any brakes.

00:38:38.620 It can just run right through because everything was kind of put in the same box.

00:38:42.780 And he actually points to this being the problem with the current American situation.

00:38:49.960 He says, originally, Baron de Montesquieu, when he wrote about separation of powers, and he's the guy who influenced a large amount of our founding fathers.

00:38:59.180 When he wrote about separation of powers, what he was saying was not that like three was some magical number of branches of government.

00:39:07.160 You don't actually stop power by just saying, and now in the constitution, I put in article one, two, and three, they give you the Congress and the executive branch and the judicial branch.

00:39:18.000 And therefore power is solved.

00:39:20.400 The problem is solved, right?

00:39:21.720 No, the branches of government were supposed to represent opposing social forces, right?

00:39:27.200 In something like England, you would have the king and then you'd have the nobility and then you'd have the church and then you'd have the merchants and then you'd have the peasantry.

00:39:36.020 And all of these different social forces had some level of representation.

00:39:40.600 When Rome was really a republic at its best, right?

00:39:44.140 You had, you know, you had the Senate, which was representing kind of the upper orders, but then you had elections at lower orders.

00:39:51.300 You had all of these different social forces.

00:39:54.020 You have the different priests, you have different forces pushing back against each other.

00:39:57.960 And that's what creates certain expectations.

00:40:00.700 It doesn't just let one person kind of run through and do whatever they want.

00:40:05.340 And so in reality, it's not just the division of power.

00:40:09.940 It's not just the separation of powers that actually checks power.

00:40:13.420 It's the social forces that the, that power is invested in.

00:40:17.060 And so the less we have separate social forces, the more we run into this problem.

00:40:22.980 So when the, you know, different branches of the government were, you know, you had the executive, which was kind of like a king.

00:40:29.200 And then you had the, the, the, the house, which was truly kind of the body of the people.

00:40:34.920 And then you had the Senate, which was kind of the more aristocratic, you know, it had to be, the people had to be, the, the, the senators had to be selected by the state governments.

00:40:45.300 So they weren't just directly elected by the people.

00:40:47.680 And then you had the judiciary and that was kind of representing its own thing.

00:40:51.240 It, you know, it wasn't open to democratic forces.

00:40:54.060 And all of these different ideas were separated.

00:40:58.020 All these different social forces were separated.

00:40:59.620 Now that you could say, and this is an open question.

00:41:02.940 This is, this is something that is somewhat suggested in the ruling class.

00:41:06.720 When he talks about this, you could say that ultimately the lack of social classes, like firm social classes and a more active state church in the United States might've doomed.

00:41:18.540 This model because you, you don't have the level of ingrained social force that you have in other societies.

00:41:25.800 Right.

00:41:26.220 And in many ways that's because they're more ancient, right?

00:41:28.660 The, the landed nobility, the church, they came, they came of kind of like this feudal era where they, they weren't designed this way.

00:41:36.680 It's not like someone sat down and tinkered with all the aspects of kind of the European feudalism to create this balance, but they kind of emerged in this manner.

00:41:46.400 And because they did, uh, they were very deeply grounded, like the rights of the nobility, uh, you know, the, the feudal Lords, uh, the, the expectations that the church had, the, the, the beliefs that the peasants had, they were all kind of already deeply ensconced in those traditions.

00:42:01.900 And so when they kind of came together, they, they naturally ended up checking each other.

00:42:06.540 And that's why, uh, you know, uh, England had a much better time of it and probably advanced more and had a more robust tradition of juridical defense, uh, than, than many other, uh, civilizations, uh, because it had, you know, the, the church was in one place.

00:42:21.720 The king was in another, uh, you, you had the, uh, the nobility, all these different things.

00:42:26.720 The power was spread out in a much more organic way than it would have been in a more unified society, right?

00:42:33.100 In the United States, you just didn't have those forces in the same way.

00:42:37.120 And I think in the United States, uh, we were saved mainly in our own kind of feudal-esque system of federalism.

00:42:43.380 The United States was just too large and it was never really centralized.

00:42:46.580 And the cultures in the distance, uh, just the vast territory of the United States made it very difficult to centralize power, uh, in the way that it had been in other areas.

00:42:56.660 And so even though we didn't have perhaps the, uh, the social class that divided power, uh, we had the geographical, uh, uh, differences and, uh, divisions that really divided power.

00:43:11.040 And so for a very long time, power couldn't unify, not so much because we had deeply ingrained social classes and expectations that drove it apart, but because it was just wildly different.

00:43:22.220 The way that people in Georgia and the people in Maine lived was just very, very different.

00:43:27.980 The people living out West lived radically different lives than people living in Massachusetts.

00:43:32.060 And so it was just very hard to unify a territory of that size.

00:43:37.820 And our federal system really acted as in the same way that kind of the feudal system did in many of these European civilizations in dividing power and creating separate social forces and expectations.

00:43:49.060 But the more that technology advanced, and again, you'll remember one of his disruptors, one of the things that often disrupts judicial defense is, uh, is technological advancement and economic advancement.

00:44:03.560 Uh, you know, once, once we started to get the train, once we started to get the telegraph, you know, you get the plane, the automobile, uh, you know, uh, telephone, uh, you know, newspapers, uh, mass media, there comes the disruptor.

00:44:17.820 There comes the unifier, right?

00:44:19.840 You think of unification is a good thing.

00:44:21.420 You think of progress is a good thing, but maybe it isn't in this scenario because all of a sudden those barriers to power, those opposing social forces that had been created inside the different pockets of America.

00:44:32.040 Those started to dissolve as technology came in, disrupted that order.

00:44:37.580 And we started to see the reliance on these unified, massified, uh, bureaucracies in order to operate these new technologies and generate these new, uh, sources of wealth.

00:44:49.140 Right?

00:44:49.600 So again, this isn't, you know, we're not attacking wealth here.

00:44:52.600 We're not attacking technology necessarily, but we need to understand those things come with consequences.

00:44:58.400 Then one of those consequences is upsetting social orders and social forces that were providing this juridical defense.

00:45:06.060 So again, uh, you know, the, the point here is that power, uh, exists and it's always looking to basically eliminate these things.

00:45:17.240 That's why power always wants to get rid of the middle class. 1.00

00:45:19.580 That's why power is always looking to get rid of the, the privileges of the aristocracy. 0.99

00:45:24.480 It's that's why power is always looking to unify with, uh, religion.

00:45:29.420 You know, that there's, there's not, it's not a, a mistake, uh, that kind of our centralized total state created its own straight religion, uh, in wokeness.

00:45:38.680 Uh, those things are all ways for it to unify and, and, you know, dissolve, eliminate, and bring in, uh, those social forces that once opposed it in under its, its own auspices.

00:45:49.860 Right.

00:45:50.280 And so, uh, you know, recognizing that, uh, elite theory is looking at power and saying, yes, a ruling elite exists.

00:45:58.520 Yes, a ruling elite, uh, will make most of the decisions and will, uh, have most of the influence and will drive society and tastes.

00:46:06.920 However, that is not all that elite theory has to say on the issue of power.

00:46:11.540 In fact, Gaetano Mosca did not believe that ultimately you should just, you know, that, that the goal should be to unify power in the elites, to unify power under one, uh, person.

00:46:22.920 He said, ultimately we do want this defense that would, that, uh, the mixed constitution, the robust society, the complex society that, uh, you know, make sure that there's a middle class that has its own power and wealth.

00:46:35.680 That there is a church that is separate from the state that can have wield its own influence, that there is, uh, you know, a different social organizations layered throughout.

00:46:45.860 Uh, so that when you go to court, uh, when you are, uh, you know, locked up for protesting, you know, when, when, uh, the, the state wants to come and steal your stuff, there's a robust tradition and there is a robust, uh, network of other social forces that will push back against that.

00:47:03.220 That when, uh, you know, uh, you know, private property is violated, when the rights of the parent are violated, when the individual is, is victimized by power, they don't stand alone.

00:47:14.500 The, the, the way to oppose power is not as the individual that's really critical.

00:47:20.380 You know, that is really, really critical.

00:47:22.240 It is not individual rights that stand against the state is the collective will cultivated through tradition, belief.

00:47:33.220 And, uh, you know, separate and separate social forces in society that push back power checks.

00:47:40.100 Power right is ambition that checks ambition to use the language of the founders.

00:47:45.580 And, uh, in the, in the federalist papers, it is never just the individual rights.

00:47:50.840 And this is where conservative and libertarian rhetoric falls off.

00:47:55.240 This is the mistake they make.

00:47:57.040 They think that you start with the Liberty.

00:47:59.640 I've got the individual Liberty.

00:48:00.980 And then that's what provides me with everything else, right?

00:48:04.960 I've got this Liberty.

00:48:06.140 It exists.

00:48:07.160 And therefore everything else has to respect it.

00:48:09.840 No, incorrect, right?

00:48:11.360 You're moving up the steps.

00:48:13.160 Once, once you have each step, you can move to the next one.

00:48:16.400 And so the Liberty exists after you have collectively created the right of judicial defense, right?

00:48:24.400 Um, uh, after you have secured order against war, like you have to do each step.

00:48:30.500 And you may not get to the final step.

00:48:32.140 Many civilizations don't, but Gatana Mosca is saying you want to get there.

00:48:36.600 You need to get there.

00:48:37.520 You don't want to just exist in, uh, any of these lower states.

00:48:41.940 Uh, so I, I just wanted to go over this because a, there's often a confusion between kind of conservatives and libertarians on the steps here.

00:48:48.460 And B, there's confusion about, uh, elite theory and what it actually says about power.

00:48:53.480 Again, a lot of people focus just on, okay, elites wield power, you know, end of story.

00:48:58.260 Uh, you should learn to exercise power and want to, uh, want to grab power.

00:49:01.860 No, uh, you actually want a situation in which power is constrained, but you want to understand how it is constrained.

00:49:09.580 You don't, don't just want to kind of vomit out the entry-level civic stuff.

00:49:13.540 Uh, when it comes to that, you want, you want to understand the more complex social structures, because we kind of hollowed out all the complex social structures and just left the, uh, you know, the, the judicial system there.

00:49:25.480 And pretend like that was the same thing.

00:49:27.420 And it really isn't, uh, and, and that's pretty critical.

00:49:30.120 So you, everyone should have this level of defense.

00:49:33.160 You should have, you know, your cousin Vinny to be able to, uh, stand up for you.

00:49:36.660 It's one of my favorite movies, actually.

00:49:38.980 Uh, just hilarious.

00:49:40.260 I never get enough of it.

00:49:41.500 Uh, but, uh, but you want to have that defense, but you can only have that defense in the courtroom.

00:49:47.200 If everyone in the courtroom believes in the principles that they are going through, that, that the judge has real power.

00:49:55.060 That the law has real power.

00:49:56.660 And the only way that the law ever has power is because everyone believes in it.

00:50:00.280 We talk a lot about the rule of law, right?

00:50:03.080 But the rule of law is really only the collective rule of men, right?

00:50:06.920 It is the, the law is only an instantiation of the agreement between men on what is true and what is real and how power should behave.

00:50:15.540 And the only way that power will ever be disciplined and ever behave is if opposing social forces, opposing power is standing in its way.

00:50:25.060 All right, guys.

00:50:27.100 So let's go ahead and take a look at the questions of the people here real quick.

00:50:36.680 Uh, Andrew Guller says totally off topic, but I've been meaning to ask, uh, are the voices, are the voice weapons from the David Lynch Dune movie true to the book?

00:50:48.960 Ooh, um, you know, uh, the voice is a command in, uh, in the book and it, you know, can compel you to take action.

00:50:57.720 I'm trying to remember if there is actually a weapon in the book.

00:51:01.980 It's been a while since I've actually read the original Dune novel.

00:51:05.280 Uh, maybe someone can help me answer that question because I, I don't believe so.

00:51:11.400 Like, I don't think they, they channel the voice through a specific weapon, but maybe they do.

00:51:15.840 Maybe that was part of the weirding way in the book.

00:51:18.300 They have the weirding way, which is the way that the, uh, the Benny Gesserit fight.

00:51:21.660 Right.

00:51:21.980 And they can like move hyper fast and that kind of thing.

00:51:24.780 Uh, the voice is part of their, uh, their system, but, uh, uh, but yeah, I don't know if it was actually created, uh, as a physical weapon in the book.

00:51:34.080 I'm trying to remember if that's the case.

00:51:36.260 All right.

00:51:36.980 And then Andrew also says a serious question this time, given Curtis Yarvin's thesis that all effective governance boils down to the skill of the ruler.

00:51:46.660 Isn't government by executive fiat, the most beneficial in the long run?

00:51:52.100 Uh, let's see, uh, the thesis that government boils down to the skill of the ruler.

00:51:56.920 Yeah.

00:51:57.620 Well, I mean, actually that kind of, uh, definitely falls into what we just discussed there.

00:52:02.380 Right.

00:52:02.620 So, uh, in a sense, yes.

00:52:05.020 Right.

00:52:05.260 If, if you're going to have the most basic form of government and, uh, you know, this is acknowledged in Plato, this is acknowledged in Cicero.

00:52:13.160 Uh, they say, uh, uh, you know, they, they say the mixed government is best.

00:52:17.560 Well, Plato doesn't say that, but Aristotle does.

00:52:19.980 Uh, Cicero does, you know, the mixed government is best.

00:52:23.740 Right.

00:52:24.480 However, if you're going to have a simple form of government, if you're going to choose between one of the three basic forms, oligarchy, uh, democracy.

00:52:33.160 Or, uh, monarchy.

00:52:34.380 You want the monarchy, uh, because, uh, the, the, that kind of direct rule of, uh, the best person, uh, will have the most benefit.

00:52:43.560 Right.

00:52:43.920 Uh, but ultimately, and that would be what Yarvin says, you know, Yarvin is, is for the unified executive.

00:52:49.520 He just wants the King to have the power, you know, let's get rid of the pretense.

00:52:53.040 Let's not slow things down.

00:52:54.540 Uh, all the best stuff is done by a monarch and boom, done.

00:52:58.120 Right.

00:52:58.820 Uh, so that's what he would say.

00:53:00.520 Um, I, I would say, uh, I'm, I'm a little closer to what, uh, Mosca is saying here and what guys like Aristotle and, uh, and Cicero have said, uh, that the mixed government is kind of what you are looking for.

00:53:13.760 However, I think that, uh, you need a much stronger executive than what we have now.

00:53:18.400 What we have now is not a mixed government.

00:53:20.140 And that's what, you know, uh, Mosca also points out because we dissolved all of our, our branches, uh, through kind of, uh, the, uh, mass democracy.

00:53:28.760 We've really turned ourselves into a oligarchy because in mass democracy, uh, voting is, is really, uh, what can you give me and the, uh, and what, you know, who can manipulate my opinion.

00:53:39.660 Uh, and it turns out oligarchs have the money and so they have control of the media and they can kind of manipulate the opinion of the people.

00:53:46.880 And so if you kind of dissolve all your social forces in the way that we did, you end up with kind of the oligarchy we have now.

00:53:53.320 So we don't really have a strong executive.

00:53:55.520 So I, I wouldn't say that you just want everything done by executive fiat, uh, because it does open you up to the problems that Mosca and our founders explained.

00:54:05.260 Uh, however, I do think you need a much, much, much stronger executive.

00:54:09.720 Uh, the fact that we've kind of opened everything up to democracy at this point dissolves all of those opposing, opposing social forces.

00:54:17.260 And so therefore our, uh, our executive looks very weak, right?

00:54:21.300 It doesn't do a very good job.

00:54:22.720 Um, all right, guys, uh, we're going to go ahead and, uh, oh, someone said, answer is there are no voice weapons, uh, uh, voice weapons in the original Dune.

00:54:33.340 It was just part of the, uh, of the book.

00:54:35.920 I, that's what I thought, but I didn't want to a hundred percent, uh, answer that.

00:54:39.100 Cause I, I thought that was the case.

00:54:40.600 You had the weirding way.

00:54:41.860 Uh, but I, I didn't remember.

00:54:43.760 I was like, I don't think there are voice weapons in the book, but it has been a while since I read the original.

00:54:47.980 So, uh, I'm glad somebody was able to pull that up for me.

00:54:50.600 All right, guys, thank you everybody for watching.

00:54:52.960 If you enjoyed this show or it's your first time on the channel, please make sure to go ahead and subscribe, you know, like notifications, all that stuff.

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00:55:15.560 Uh, if you'd like to hear, read or listen to my book, the total state, it's now out on audio book as well as the regular book.

00:55:22.580 Uh, where I talk a lot about Gaetano Masca and, uh, the other elite theorists and these opposing social forces and how their elimination creates the total state.

00:55:31.160 If you want to get more of that fleshed out, then you can pick up my book or listen to it, uh, in the audio book form.

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00:55:53.540 I want to thank everybody for watching.

00:55:55.660 And as always, I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - January 22, 2025

Gaetano Mosca and Juridical Defense ｜ 1⧸22⧸25

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