The Auron MacIntyre Show - Heroes and Hero Worship ｜ Guest： J. Burden ｜ 3⧸18⧸24

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00:00:30.000 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.960 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.460 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:38.000 So Thomas Carlyle is a really interesting author.

00:00:41.700 He's someone that has fallen off the radar for a lot of people.

00:00:45.740 He used to be somebody who was spoken of in the English canon

00:00:49.420 as kind of one of the greatest authors,

00:00:52.280 often put alongside people like Shakespeare,

00:00:55.160 and was understood as someone that was necessary for a lot of people to read.

00:00:59.240 Many of his political viewpoints haven't aged so well historically for those who believe

00:01:05.180 in kind of the progressive Whig view of history.

00:01:08.540 And so in many ways, he has been canceled or really more just disappeared out of kind of common knowledge.

00:01:14.980 Which also because he's a little difficult to read.

00:01:16.780 And so people often don't talk about him.

00:01:19.720 But he does have a huge impact on the way that we understand things.

00:01:23.300 Very specifically, history.

00:01:25.100 If you don't know Thomas Carlyle, you probably still know about the great man theory of history.

00:01:30.440 It's one that often comes up for debate when you get into a history class.

00:01:34.600 And that theory comes out of the book that we're going to be discussing today on heroes and hero worship.

00:01:40.940 So joining me today to talk about Thomas Carlyle, hero worship, history, and a whole bunch of other stuff

00:01:46.700 is one of my favorites, Jay Burden.

00:01:48.980 Thanks for coming on, man.

00:01:50.380 Yeah, thank you so much for having me back on, Aaron.

00:01:52.500 I'm really looking forward to this discussion.

00:01:54.220 When's the first time you kind of interacted with Carlyle?

00:01:58.960 Because I have to be honest, I did not read any Carlyle until I started reading Curtis Yarvin,

00:02:04.500 who spoke of him so highly.

00:02:06.520 Well, that's certainly my first contact with him as well.

00:02:10.060 And I got to him through two reasons.

00:02:13.000 One, obviously, is Moldbug.

00:02:14.560 He pulls a lot from Carlyle.

00:02:16.720 And so even if you absolutely disagree with everything Moldbug has ever written,

00:02:21.180 he provides one of the best reading lists in our circles.

00:02:25.380 And so you have to give him that, if nothing else.

00:02:27.600 And the other one is a book from another obscure right-wing figure, Jonathan Bowden.

00:02:32.960 And he had a book called Pulp Fascism, which is a book, maybe a discussion for another day.

00:02:39.020 But he does something very similar where he goes through different heroic figures

00:02:42.840 and speaks about what they tell us about society.

00:02:46.260 Now, Bowden is focused more on pop culture, as you can imagine from the title of the book.

00:02:51.180 But he goes through specifically a character you may be familiar with, Solomon Cain.

00:02:56.160 And when he talks about this sort of austere, you know, witch-hunting Puritan,

00:03:00.540 he references Thomas Carlyle in that essay.

00:03:03.300 And so between the two of those, it's like, okay, well, I like both of these guys.

00:03:06.060 I better check it out.

00:03:07.340 And Thomas Carlyle is really one of the greats in the Western canon.

00:03:11.600 You're very much right.

00:03:13.120 He was considered one of the all-time greats.

00:03:16.160 He was very, very popular in the Victorian era.

00:03:21.640 Dickens was sort of an acolyte of Thomas Carlyle.

00:03:24.920 He infamously carried around his books wherever he went.

00:03:28.380 But due to a number of reasons, which we'll probably get into, he's very much fallen out of fashion.

00:03:34.640 And because of that, he's sort of been erased from the canon.

00:03:37.840 And he's very influential on the way that we speak in somewhat similar way that Shakespeare is.

00:03:43.960 So even that term, the great man theory of history, it derives from Carlyle.

00:03:48.440 He also came up with that phrase you may have heard to describe economics, the dismal science.

00:03:53.900 So even if you don't know Carlyle, you know Carlyle is a good way to describe it.

00:03:58.360 Right. Yeah, I want to dive into that because, like you said, he's somebody who has a large impact, though a lot of people probably can't directly reference him.

00:04:07.440 I certainly didn't run into him in any kind of public school setting.

00:04:10.640 You weren't reading excerpts of Carlyle or any of his work the way that you would someone like Shakespeare or Dante or somebody.

00:04:18.020 And so it's somebody who's had a large impact but has been largely erased from kind of the average American or even Westerners understanding of literature and culture.

00:04:29.740 So, guys, we're going to dive into On Heroes and Hero Worship.

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00:05:44.060 All right.

00:05:44.960 So this book is really interesting because Carlisle is primarily an essayist.

00:05:52.200 In fact, many of his books are simply an assembling of different essays that he wrote.

00:05:58.700 And so there's a feel to this for sure.

00:06:02.860 It's a collection of six different lectures that he gave and the notes of those lectures get turned into one book.

00:06:10.720 He gives each of these six lectures on different archetypes of what the hero is and then gives specific examples of the people.

00:06:20.340 Before we get into the content of this book, where do you put it in Carlisle's kind of kind of canon?

00:06:26.940 Because I would say this probably is the best place for people to start due to the structure of it.

00:06:32.940 I would say a smaller chunk of reading something like Chartism might be the best because that's also maybe a more politically applicable work as where this one rambles quite a bit in many different directions as Carlisle always does.

00:06:46.080 But probably something slightly more focused, I think, would be easier, even though this is an important work, to be sure.

00:06:53.380 Certainly.

00:06:54.100 I think that you're right that it's probably best to start with a bite-sized chunk of Carlisle.

00:06:59.620 I will say because it is sort of six self-contained lectures, it is not something you need to sit through in one go and read it through.

00:07:08.420 It lends itself to sort of a lecture format.

00:07:11.880 And because of that, if you can find an audio book, it actually translates quite well to that.

00:07:16.560 It was given as it taught.

00:07:18.200 Obviously, I have a hard copy.

00:07:19.560 I reference it quite often.

00:07:20.680 If you've ever read or listened to my work, it's effectively a bingo.

00:07:24.540 Like one of the spaces on the bingo card is references Carlisle, right?

00:07:27.960 But nonetheless, I think Chartism is a very good place to start with that.

00:07:32.120 There are several collections of Carlisle's work.

00:07:34.840 I can't remember the name of any of them off the top of my head, which is horrible podcasting.

00:07:38.400 But he's not hard to find.

00:07:39.840 And if you're interested in used books, because he was so popular in a previous era and has now fallen from that,

00:07:46.480 it's quite easy to get very nice leather-bound copies of Carlisle for a penny on the dollar.

00:07:52.640 So I'd recommend that if you're a physical book collector.

00:07:55.180 Yeah, sadly, happily for me, but sadly for public education, one year my wife surprised me with a large collection of leather-bound Thomas Carlisle books that had just been pulled from a library somewhere.

00:08:10.100 They still had the library cards in the pockets, you know, on the inside of the books, probably banned by some, you know, angry librarian who couldn't believe that this reactionary bigot was still sitting on their university library shelves somewhere.

00:08:27.160 But got it very cheaply due to exactly what you're saying there.

00:08:32.700 So definitely.

00:08:33.780 And to frame this work, I think it's important to reference what we mean when we're talking about the right and the left.

00:08:42.260 You know, the sort of raison d'etre, the end goal of the left is equality.

00:08:46.460 And the reason that Thomas Carlisle is so popular among right-wingers and reactionaries is that it's 180 degrees the opposite of what Carlisle sees as being the true, the just, and the beautiful.

00:08:57.940 And his whole concept of the great man of history is very much related to political elite theory, right, which is something Aron that you and I talk about all the time.

00:09:06.780 And that's the idea that history is shaped by these great men who sort of uproot the pre-existing order through their will.

00:09:16.400 And so what he does is this is first sort of lay out his thesis statement, right, that these great men really are what make the course of history.

00:09:25.400 And then through that examines a specific archetype of the hero.

00:09:30.280 So he starts with Odin, right, the hero as a god, that he moves to Muhammad, right, the hero as a prophet. 0.52

00:09:38.460 And although Thomas Carlisle is at least nominally Christian, he goes through characters and heroes from other cultures specifically to show, one, this is a universal human institution, right, that of hero worship.

00:09:52.800 And also, and he says this multiple times, it's much easier to talk about the prophet Muhammad than it is to talk about a specific biblical prophet.

00:09:59.620 That, you know, people will get their hackles up.

00:10:01.680 And so that's something I would say, you know, if you're interested in reading this book, don't be put off by that.

00:10:05.660 He knows exactly what he's doing.

00:10:07.260 And so when he talks about Muhammad, he talks about Thor or Odin, he's not believing in those guys, right?

00:10:13.740 He is not a Muslim. 1.00

00:10:14.840 He is not a Norse pagan, but he's using that as a prism to examine hero worship.

00:10:20.080 And so if you've heard anything about this book, you've probably heard that phrase, hero worship is the basis of civilization.

00:10:26.500 And what he means in that is that not only do great men determine the course of societies and of cultures, but also that the civic religion, right, the moral framework of any society is in many ways determined by the men they put forth as laudable and notable, right, put forth as something to be imitated.

00:10:48.220 And so, for instance, you see that in the American context, we're sort of on our fourth American republic, right?

00:10:54.600 But within each one of those different sort of dispensations of America, you see a great man who sort of sets that forth.

00:11:00.560 So obviously you have Washington, then you have Andrew Jackson, you know, then you have Abraham Lincoln, and then FDR.

00:11:08.300 And each one of those men is sort of turning over the preexisting institution, creating something new, and albeit it's contiguous.

00:11:16.220 And then after that, people look to them as the model to imitate.

00:11:19.900 And I think it's very important as, you know, someone who is, shall we say, less than thrilled with the current state our society is in, to look back at heroes from our tradition and say, I want to be like them.

00:11:33.060 So you look at a man like Robert E. Lee, for instance, and he viewed himself in relation to Washington.

00:11:38.240 He felt like he needed to live up to that.

00:11:40.360 And so that's really what Carlisle is getting at and why this book is so important for us as students of history and lovers of tradition.

00:11:49.900 Yeah, you're right to point out that he's really taking many, many figures that people wouldn't assume he would use because he's trying to establish the universality of this phenomenon.

00:12:03.440 That even though the type of people that each civilization will venerate will change due to the character of the people, the fact that they will be defined by who they venerate is always the case.

00:12:16.040 And so he often pulls, again, like you said, examples like Odin or Muhammad, which he would not personally believe in.

00:12:22.260 But he also pulls people like maybe Luther.

00:12:25.960 I mean, he is kind of a, you know, he's a Protestant to the extent that he's a Christian.

00:12:29.500 So maybe Luther would be somebody that he would actually venerate.

00:12:33.560 But he also pulls people like Rousseau.

00:12:37.380 When he talks about the hero as king, he pulls not ancient kings, but he goes ahead and highlights people like Cromwell and Napoleon.

00:12:47.620 And so these are often people that you would think an arch reactionary would probably not invest in.

00:12:53.540 These are not like the Plutarch's lives that he would want people to emulate.

00:12:58.160 But at the same time, he's still willing to look at these people because he's trying to show this phenomenon.

00:13:04.900 And really his core thing that he tries to tell people is that it's about being men of action.

00:13:12.200 Each one of these are men who are great.

00:13:14.260 Each one of these are ones that excel and lead.

00:13:17.120 And he often seems to say, we almost cannot judge men who are like this because they are kind of beyond what the average person is capable of, what they understand.

00:13:28.960 And who are we to kind of, you know, foist our lower moral understanding on some of these kind of genre defining men, these archetypal men.

00:13:41.540 It's interesting.

00:13:42.620 Again, it's not the kind of people that you would think, you know, you would mention as an arch reactionary for hero worship.

00:13:48.820 But he often seems to pull from some of those places we wouldn't expect just to show how central this concept is.

00:13:56.740 Definitely.

00:13:57.560 And one of the things that we need to address with this concept of great men is that great men and good men are not necessarily synonymous.

00:14:07.820 Right.

00:14:07.920 Like you look at someone like Genghis Khan.

00:14:09.540 He's certainly a great man who changed the course of history.

00:14:12.700 He's not exactly a nice guy.

00:14:14.440 Right.

00:14:14.580 Those are almost often a completely like negative correlation.

00:14:18.880 And I think it's it's this sort of thing is important because I think we are witnessing the birth of a new civic religion.

00:14:26.840 And so our old American heroes are being forcefully removed.

00:14:30.840 And that matters.

00:14:31.940 And it doesn't just matter because I like old statues.

00:14:35.620 I certainly do.

00:14:37.080 But because the figures that the state puts forward as admirable.

00:14:41.140 Right.

00:14:41.340 As its symbols matter quite a bit.

00:14:43.600 And they matter for that version of virtue.

00:14:46.580 Right.

00:14:46.720 That determines what virtue is, at least in a civic sense.

00:14:50.260 And so when you look at a at a culture like ours.

00:14:52.660 Right. 0.95

00:14:52.860 That is very interested in destroying the symbols of the old order and replacing them with either completely fake people or these kind of like, you know, horrible criminals. 0.94

00:15:04.180 Right. 0.77

00:15:04.600 Who are kind of raised the status of secular saints.

00:15:07.260 This is why this matters.

00:15:08.680 Right.

00:15:09.120 Because this is what makes up a civilization.

00:15:12.700 And when you see those heroes change, it's a leading indicator that the rest of the civilization is following in their way, so to speak.

00:15:22.040 Yeah, you really notice, like you said, it does not escape the left, even though they don't believe to some extent in this, does not escape the left that that which we venerate, the heroes that we worship will define society.

00:15:34.360 And so because they're looking to flatten things out because they're looking for equality, it seems so often that the key is removing those who have taken great actions, those who have actually built things, discovered things, founded things.

00:15:48.600 And instead, it's increasingly about replacing them with those that flatten things out, those that created some kind of equity, though it was the first person of these nine traits to achieve something that had already been achieved several times over.

00:16:05.360 Nothing can be new, nothing can be truly built and inspiring, instead, it's simply the remix and rehashing until all of our heroic figures kind of melt down into that gray goo of no one who stands out and elevates the human character or sparks the imagination.

00:16:24.140 Only those that can kind of retread the same ground we've been over several times, but with a new, different hue or set of genitalia.

00:16:33.300 Well, and that's exactly why I opened this discussion by talking about the difference between the right and the left, right?

00:16:39.780 Because the left, their primary end goal is that, flattening, right?

00:16:43.940 It is full and total equality.

00:16:46.280 And in Carlyle, we see something very different, that there is a difference between men.

00:16:51.880 And, you know, he mentions there are multiple ways to be great, right?

00:16:55.760 These heroes share certain traits, but there are also different archetypes.

00:16:59.460 But in the beginning, you know, in the start of his section on Odin, when he's sort of introducing this series, he talks about the fact that, you know, virtue is very much striving to be like these men.

00:17:11.820 Yeah. And we've kind of talked about the fact that while Carlyle had, shall we say, a complicated relationship with Christianity, he does nonetheless point to Christ as the supreme example, right?

00:17:23.380 One who is fully God and fully man.

00:17:26.220 And so what he says is that each of these heroes sort of has a spark of divinity in them, right?

00:17:30.560 They are more than simply a human.

00:17:33.300 And obviously, I don't mean that in the literal sense, right?

00:17:35.040 They all died.

00:17:36.480 But nonetheless, there is something in them that is transcendent of the normal order.

00:17:41.360 And this is something that even men well before Carlyle spoke about.

00:17:45.480 You know, if you read the Greek classics, right?

00:17:49.700 You'll know that there is a different word for these heroes.

00:17:53.120 They're not simply anthropoid, right?

00:17:54.740 There's man.

00:17:55.240 They're viewed as more than that.

00:17:57.020 And because of that, right, there's this idea that, you know, there is a quality difference between these two groups.

00:18:04.800 And I don't mean that in a moral sense, right?

00:18:07.120 Obviously, you know, we can have a theological discussion there.

00:18:09.760 But in the sense that if you cannot recognize that some men are greater than others, you've sort of already swallowed that poison pill of equality.

00:18:17.320 And it's just you are sort of negotiating where on the slippery slope you'll set up your shop, so to speak.

00:18:23.280 So this is an interesting, I think, crossroads for Christians who are studying this because I think a lot, especially modern Christians, would worry about the phrase hero worship, right?

00:18:36.780 We're talking about idolatry.

00:18:40.220 We're talking about elevating a man to the place of a god.

00:18:42.660 Of course, we know if you look at most classical heroes from antiquity, at some point, these people are elevated to somehow have had a relationship with the gods, right?

00:18:55.200 Either they're actually secretly the son of a god.

00:18:57.860 At some point, Zeus, like, snuck down and, you know, slept with their mother, and they're actually descended from a god at some point.

00:19:03.500 If you are going to become a truly powerful ruler in Alexander or a Julius Caesar at some point, someone would need to introduce the idea that you were physically descended or, you know, you're genealogically descended from a god at some point.

00:19:20.080 Obviously, that's not something that modern people would be comfortable with in general.

00:19:25.240 But specifically for Christians, there's a religious injunction to kind of avoid that.

00:19:29.680 And so is there a way that Christians can view this without perhaps falling back on the more ancient understandings of direct lineage to gods or the elevation and idolatry of a man?

00:19:44.080 Definitely.

00:19:44.880 And I take your point to heart, right?

00:19:47.020 And so when we use this phrase hero worship, obviously some of these figures, you know, in Carlisle's work were literally worshipped as gods.

00:19:54.940 And we can reject that, right?

00:19:56.720 We obviously were monotheistic.

00:19:57.680 We believe that there is, you know, one God.

00:20:00.620 And at the same time, we can look at men who were greater than us, right?

00:20:05.340 And I, in addition to kind of the great men of history, have people that I strive to emulate.

00:20:11.420 And obviously the term worship has a certain connotation that we can disagree with.

00:20:17.200 But the point is, right, it is looking at someone as an example to follow.

00:20:22.320 Obviously, the church understands this well.

00:20:25.620 You know, I am not Catholic, but there's this idea of Christian saints, right?

00:20:29.440 Someone who has lived the Christian life well.

00:20:32.140 And so you are, in many cases, being named after someone and the idea that you will follow forth in their footsteps.

00:20:39.580 And, you know, when we use that term worship, it is sort of a directing of attention towards, right?

00:20:46.740 So in the Christian world, there's this idea that, you know, if you misorder your affections, you misorder your attention, it is a form of idolatry.

00:20:55.800 And so certainly you can take hero worship, right, the striving to imitate a human, too far.

00:21:01.160 Now, I will say, when I look around at society, I don't see that error being committed very often, right?

00:21:09.920 I don't see many people who live in, you know, the cult of Oliver Cromwell.

00:21:14.600 I'm sure there's someone out there who does that.

00:21:17.120 But to me, the problem of modernity is very much a problem of deconstruction.

00:21:20.820 It's that we can't view these men sincerely.

00:21:23.580 We have to view them as, you know, somehow compromised, as somehow worse than the narrative, right?

00:21:29.860 The idea that if it is a story, we must pull it apart and deconstruct it.

00:21:33.860 And so while there certainly is an error there, it is not the error we are oftentimes faced.

00:21:39.060 And so, again, there's an idea of the Aristotelian golden mean here.

00:21:42.880 You know, there is certainly excesses on both sides.

00:21:45.160 But given the situation we're in, I don't see that as being a particularly pressing concern.

00:21:49.200 If you see what I'm getting at.

00:21:51.440 I do.

00:21:52.300 And I think it's essential for people, you know, it's very easy for someone to say, well, just emulate Christ.

00:21:59.460 And, of course, you should.

00:22:01.100 Like, that is great advice to a large extent.

00:22:05.200 However, there is, I think, an important step between.

00:22:08.640 You know, people need, sometimes they need that with skin on.

00:22:12.760 And so I think for the average Christian, you know, the emulation of one's father or mother,

00:22:17.200 depending on, you know, which role you embody, is a perfect example of that.

00:22:22.280 You should be able to do that.

00:22:23.940 That should be something that is a well-ordered understanding of the family without deifying anyone,

00:22:32.280 without creating idolatry or crossing that line.

00:22:35.500 And if we can do that with our parents, then we can extrapolate that out to larger, you know,

00:22:42.480 tribe and then civilization.

00:22:43.500 Because what are those things except the continuation of the family?

00:22:47.860 And so I think that there is an easy way to understand this, as you said, without going overboard.

00:22:53.340 I want to get over into who we are emulating because you touched on that there.

00:22:58.580 And I think that's important.

00:23:00.040 It's not just that we're not emulating anyone.

00:23:01.960 I think that we have to emulate someone.

00:23:03.660 And we've deconstructed all those that are worth emulating and instead are patterning our behavior

00:23:12.100 on those that most certainly don't deserve it.

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00:24:39.200 To learn more, go to ISI.org.

00:24:42.140 That's ISI.org.

00:24:43.900 So like you were saying, Jay, obviously one of the big lines from this book is that hero worship is the core of civilization, right?

00:24:55.360 And what he's talking about there is that the things that we continue to pattern ourselves after

00:25:01.460 are what defines our way of being, right?

00:25:05.040 That's how we create a people.

00:25:07.580 That's how a people are created is that they see a line of people who continually pattern themselves

00:25:14.340 off of similar ideas.

00:25:17.480 And that is what makes their way of being different from someone else.

00:25:21.140 So it makes their culture distinct.

00:25:23.260 This is why the American culture can be distinct from French culture,

00:25:27.360 which can be distinct from, you know, Indian culture or Chinese culture.

00:25:32.060 There are great men, there are people to inhabit, there are patterns of being to inhabit

00:25:38.040 that come from heroes in each of those traditions.

00:25:42.320 And that is what really creates a distinct civilization.

00:25:46.040 All of them have those great men.

00:25:48.280 It's not that, you know, one is even necessarily greater than another,

00:25:52.780 but it is that those people set the pattern, the chain of being

00:25:57.760 that will be carried down from that heroic pattern through father and son,

00:26:02.820 through mother and daughter into kind of your daily life.

00:26:06.800 And that's what defines you.

00:26:08.460 As you're saying, we do a lot of deconstruction today.

00:26:11.920 It's becoming extremely important for the left to deconstruct all of these patterns

00:26:16.940 and all of these ways of being.

00:26:19.060 And it's created an incredibly cynical culture.

00:26:22.020 Of course, what's left of our culture is kind of this cynical miasma.

00:26:28.560 However, I think we are still seeing people desperately attempt this emulation.

00:26:34.540 It's just now it's, you know, Kardashians or rappers or something instead of,

00:26:39.740 you know, world historical figures or poets, you know,

00:26:44.140 creatures, kings.

00:26:47.020 And this is what has made us who we are.

00:26:49.660 It's not that we've stopped emulating because we can't.

00:26:52.440 We will emulate someone.

00:26:55.200 These archetypes will exist.

00:26:57.440 It's just that we've deconstructed all of those that were worth something

00:27:01.600 that bound us to our tradition and instead have left people to,

00:27:05.880 you know, emulate the kind of guys who do Burger King commercials.

00:27:10.580 All right.

00:27:11.460 And this is why Carlisle is able to pull from so many different cultures

00:27:17.680 because this is a universal human institution.

00:27:21.700 And so, you know, really, this whole project of unlimited emancipation

00:27:27.240 must ultimately fail, right?

00:27:29.380 Because it is based in a lie.

00:27:31.340 It is based in this idea that, you know,

00:27:32.960 you can just sort of manage the things you don't like about human nature out of existence.

00:27:37.640 But that doesn't mean that that project, right,

00:27:39.920 that great social engineering scheme can't do a lot of harm.

00:27:42.900 And so what I think you're seeing with, and another great example is the extreme rise

00:27:48.120 to prominence of sports, right?

00:27:50.360 Which, look, and I like sports as much as the next guy,

00:27:52.360 is that the traditional way people, you know,

00:27:55.300 kind of like index themselves to heroes has been destroyed.

00:27:58.380 And so, you know, this is a part of human nature.

00:28:00.180 People are always looking for this.

00:28:02.100 And so they find these kind of like ersatz, you know,

00:28:04.720 replacement versions for that same thing.

00:28:07.280 And I think that your point about celebrity is something, you know,

00:28:12.400 important to talk about.

00:28:14.720 Because, you know, obviously there have always been famous people.

00:28:19.060 But the idea of, you know, the celebrity in that sense is a relatively moderate one.

00:28:24.280 Now, some of that just has to do with technology, right?

00:28:27.000 Like it's difficult to be an international music sensation when you can't record your music.

00:28:31.200 But nonetheless, I think that it, again, speaks to the kind of fraying nature of social fabric.

00:28:38.480 And one of the other things that's interesting in this is you see, you know,

00:28:41.680 like you've mentioned that, you know, your heroes sort of define what your culture is,

00:28:47.220 is that America is fractioning into, from a certain level, dozens of subcultures.

00:28:52.720 And that's been going on for longer than both of us have been alive.

00:28:55.620 But also on the national political scale, right, we cannot agree on a common cast of characters.

00:29:03.240 And I've spoken with Kriptos before, who's a, you know, very, like a very wise man,

00:29:08.140 about this problem with a lack of sort of shared authority, right,

00:29:14.200 that we cannot agree on where legitimacy comes from.

00:29:17.680 And, you know, certainly some of that is governmental and political.

00:29:20.600 But there's another part of that, which is, what is the heroic?

00:29:24.480 What is a good man?

00:29:26.400 Now, it's especially difficult when you say, what is a good man?

00:29:29.420 And one side says, well, who are you to say what is good?

00:29:33.020 And who are you to say what a man is?

00:29:35.100 But nonetheless, right, it does sort of point to, it does sort of point to this fracture.

00:29:41.220 And so what I think will happen, and I feel pretty confident in this,

00:29:44.820 and that all of these sort of like ersatz, fake heroes, you know, that either have been created

00:29:49.320 by media or created by the political class will fade away, right? 0.99

00:29:53.100 There's nothing, there's no there, there, you know, to use kind of a stupid phrase for it. 0.94

00:29:58.380 But nonetheless, the amount of deconstruction is harming that chain of being. 0.95

00:30:04.480 And so, you know, when you speak about something like that insincerity, right,

00:30:08.840 that desire to deconstruct, I think it's hard because as postmoderns,

00:30:13.540 it's kind of built into your brain, no matter what, it's very difficult to get that out of your

00:30:18.840 mind. But I think that, you know, when we're faced with this kind of crisis of civic religion,

00:30:25.740 right, faced with this crisis of belief, to go back to something real, to go back to heroes

00:30:32.720 who aren't fake, who sort of arose naturally, and were remembered naturally. One of the canards

00:30:39.880 you hear from the left, right, whenever you talk about hierarchy is this idea that, oh,

00:30:45.180 if you believe in hierarchy, if you believe in, you know, kind of a rank ordering of traits that

00:30:51.080 you think you would be at the top, you know, go, you just do you just want that because you're mad

00:30:54.860 that you're not successful. And that's something that Carlisle has no truck. And he basically says

00:31:00.440 that the foundation of piety, right, is this idea that there is something greater than myself,

00:31:06.120 and I owe it reverence. And obviously, you know, like we said, you don't owe the same reverence to

00:31:11.340 a hero that you owe to God, right? You don't owe the same reverence to a king, to your father,

00:31:16.860 to any one of these things. But they are mirror images of each other. And if you can't show proper

00:31:21.940 reverence in one area of your life, it's very unlikely you can show it in others. It is a virtue

00:31:27.760 that must be cultivated. And Lewis made this point, and I'm stealing this from chat, so it's not a

00:31:33.540 particular original idea, that, you know, in order to make good Christians, you must first make

00:31:38.120 good pagans, right? And what he meant by that is you have to instill virtues. And one of those

00:31:43.940 virtues is piety, right? It is respect for things that ought to be respected. If you see what I'm

00:31:49.760 getting at. Yeah, there's a really interesting, I'm glad you brought that up, because I saw someone post

00:31:55.600 about that on Twitter, they said something to the effect of, all these people should be careful,

00:32:00.740 I don't understand why people want to talk about elevating beauty when they themselves are not

00:32:06.400 very beautiful people. And I'm like, that is the most sick, twisted, modern understanding 0.90

00:32:13.320 of the good. Oh, well, I would only want good things elevated if they benefit me. If I can't

00:32:20.660 materially understand the way that this changes my condition in a positive way, then I don't want

00:32:27.060 good or true or beautiful things to be on display, because maybe I'm not good, and I'm not beautiful,

00:32:31.840 and I'm not true in some ways. And so therefore, the elevation of those things would, would make me

00:32:39.080 worse off. And it's like, wow, that is, if there is a way to kind of distill the leftist

00:32:46.180 mindset, that is it. Like, that is, I would rather the world be a worse place where I am equal to

00:32:56.740 everyone being garbage, or maybe even elevated above others because I am garbage, than have a 0.97

00:33:03.380 well-ordered world where the good, the beautiful, and the true are on top. And that means that I might 0.99

00:33:10.240 be convicted by the fact that I don't measure up to those things. And you're absolutely right. Like,

00:33:15.280 if you are not beautiful, if you are not good, if you are not virtuous, then that is not a reason to

00:33:22.600 tear those things down. That is a reason for you to be convicted to be better as much as you can and

00:33:29.280 revere those that have achieved. But again, like you said, that, that is its own virtue, because that

00:33:34.760 requires you to, to have a certain level of humility and to say, no, others should be ordered

00:33:40.860 above me at some, at some point there. Even if you, even if I am someone who could achieve good or

00:33:47.380 great things at some level, I must recognize that there are those that can do more and will do more

00:33:52.740 and deserve to be elevated above me before, because of that fact. And that is such an anathema to the,

00:34:00.060 to the progressive ideas that have just melted our society down. That even uttering that sounds

00:34:05.780 like heresy to most people, but it's like, well, what is the, is the other option? We're living in

00:34:10.520 it and it's terrible. Well, I think that that's the root of many of my gripes with the modern ruling

00:34:18.240 class, right? Like if I'm perfectly honest, in no time am I a Harvard graduate, right? I accept that.

00:34:25.540 But when I look at people who are, right, who have been given the stamp of approval as the best and 1.00

00:34:29.820 brightest in society and you look at them and you're like, you're a moron. You have no ideas 1.00

00:34:34.960 whatsoever. You sort of realize that something is, is, is very wrong because I think that, you know,

00:34:40.780 many of us, if we looked at our rulers, looked at our elite and saw men who were wise and august,

00:34:45.960 who were, who were better than us, there's something natural in that, right? Like there is

00:34:50.060 a natural social hierarchy and obviously it's never perfect. There are always incompetent fools. 1.00

00:34:54.880 There are always, you know, people who got there by nepotism, but when that becomes 0.99

00:34:58.820 the rule, not the exception, you know, you see this sort of lack of faith, you know, you see a lack

00:35:06.760 of legitimacy. And that's one of the interesting things about our elites and their, their political

00:35:12.600 formula, right? To borrow a term from Moscow is that, you know, every political formula is at a

00:35:18.140 certain level based in a faith claim, right? It's very easy to point this out in the, in the

00:35:24.460 ancient cultures, right? The son is my dad, therefore I'm King, right? Not literally true,

00:35:30.660 but it's, it's, it's a, it's a justification for why that person's in charge and our elites have

00:35:35.820 their own. But the problem is when you lose that respect, you lose the mandate of heaven,

00:35:41.100 as the Chinese would say, you lose all legitimacy. And, and there's this idea of moving from being a 0.51

00:35:48.520 creative minority, right? An elite that has exceptional traits to a merely dominant one,

00:35:54.780 where you effectively are just in charge because your, your predecessors were. And obviously when

00:36:00.280 that happens, you know, you've lost that, that greatness. There's really only two ways, either

00:36:05.160 a new great man and his friends come about, you know, you can look at someone like FDR,

00:36:09.620 right? Who completely overturned the existing order or that order.

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00:36:47.200 in the contiguous sense. And so, you know, when we look at our leaders, we look at our elite and see

00:36:53.940 a lack of those great virtues. You've got to understand that that matters more than just

00:36:58.940 calling them names, right? You need that to rule both from the perspective of just making the machine

00:37:04.740 of government work, right? That's a hard thing to do, but also because that is required for

00:37:09.820 political legitimacy, no matter what the, the general government structure is.

00:37:16.080 Well, and I think what, what's really interesting also is the focus that Carlisle puts on the kind

00:37:22.940 of man this is, that these are men who act, right? That these are, these are men who are forces in the

00:37:30.240 world. The, he specifically chides those who would go around and just like Hector, the small moral

00:37:39.720 imperfections of these men. Oh, well, you know, as you, as you said at the beginning, often great men

00:37:44.340 are not good men. And they're, if we were to sit there and measure them with the, the average moral

00:37:50.580 ruler of, uh, of kind of, kind of the way they live their lives, they would come short in many ways

00:37:58.520 that have foibles, they would make mistakes. And a lot of times people will take those things and say,

00:38:04.740 well, and because I didn't do this, because I didn't, you know, engage in this sin or this moral

00:38:10.420 flaw, therefore I am better than this great man. And we see this of course today, most routinely

00:38:17.000 with, with the idea of racism, right. Or sexism, because this guy owned a slave or this guy said

00:38:23.360 that, you know, there are differences between different peoples or different genders and things

00:38:28.400 that means that therefore it doesn't matter if they managed to conquer a continent or, uh, found an

00:38:34.280 entire country or, you know, build a massive civilization or revolutionize, uh, the way that we

00:38:41.320 understand some scientific venture. Uh, they, they had, they engaged in some wrong, wrong thing,

00:38:46.140 right. We can literally see this with DNA when it, when it comes to Watson. And so, uh,

00:38:52.300 it's very common today that we look at someone who's achieved something great and we say, well,

00:38:57.320 because they committed the one unforgivable sin in the modern day, therefore everything this person

00:39:03.740 did is, is suddenly irrelevant, or we have to go back and retroactively make someone, you know,

00:39:09.560 uh, a different race or a different, uh, sexual proclivity. So they can once again be elevated

00:39:15.180 because otherwise they would not belong into the pantheon. They need one of these more deified

00:39:19.380 characteristics. And this is a way of pulling down men of action say, and, and it's something

00:39:25.400 that small people do to try to make themselves feel better about the fact that they are not someone

00:39:30.820 who, who did this, but these actions are essential for Carlisle. It's not about whether this man is

00:39:36.560 perfect or even if this man is, is necessarily moral, but it's the, their ability to act. And I think

00:39:42.220 that's interesting because many people, including, you know, guys like the Maestra and Schmidt and

00:39:47.080 others really emphasize this fact, the ability to make decisions, to exercise sovereignty,

00:39:52.340 to act in the moment. And this is something that we are just terrified of, right? Like our entire

00:39:58.160 government, our entire moral system, our entire way of thinking is to remove this like executive

00:40:04.160 great man impulse in all aspects of life, uh, be it science or, or, or everything or, or, you know,

00:40:11.580 politics or anything. And that is what is most necessary to Carlisle to define a great man.

00:40:17.440 And that's a very prescient point. And you, one of the things that I will get frustrated

00:40:22.880 with conservatives for, and I don't mean this in a punitive way, right? Conservatives are my people.

00:40:28.760 I want them to win. This is why I bring this up, but I get frustrated is that they grant the left

00:40:34.620 moral legitimacy, right? They, they, they assent to the premises of the left. And one of the things

00:40:43.420 that I think is important to look at is what are they replacing these men with? Are they replacing

00:40:47.880 them with betterment? Like, okay, fair enough, I guess, hypothetically, but no, they're replacing them

00:40:53.620 with small men with men. Okay. Maybe not necessarily entirely, but they're replacing them with, with 0.95

00:40:59.080 very cheap kind of fake low rent virtues, like being generally pleasant, right? Having certain

00:41:08.060 innate characteristics. And, you know, the idea that, you know, being born a certain way is on the same

00:41:14.420 level as for instance, you know, settling a whole new area, you know, creating a people, you know, winning 0.96

00:41:21.680 a battle is just on its face, totally ridiculous. And so one of the things that I sort of want to

00:41:26.720 charge conservatives with is, is don't stand for this. Don't give them the moral legitimacy, because

00:41:32.060 if you do, they've already won, you know, you've given them the, the, the moral and, and sort of the

00:41:38.240 spiritual upper hand. And I think that that is, you know, maybe we can take that in a way that isn't

00:41:45.100 the most topical, but nonetheless, right. When we're looking at the, the deconstruction of Western

00:41:51.880 culture more broadly, but also of American culture, it's important to realize that they're not doing

00:41:57.420 that because they, you know, sincerely care about, you know, making sure that, you know, that our, our

00:42:04.300 history books are accurate. They're doing it because they hate the virtues those men stand for. They have

00:42:10.480 another set of virtues that are completely contrary to any good and decent human governance. And so

00:42:17.100 again, that's something to be aware of because oftentimes, you know, this deconstruction is

00:42:22.880 cloaked in the language of historical accuracy, you know, like, Oh, well, you know, we, we have to be,

00:42:29.220 we have to be, you know, very, uh, very considerate, you know, when we talk about these men, but really

00:42:34.520 when you look at it, it's effectively revenge of the nerds. You know, it's like, I don't like the cool

00:42:39.280 jock who did something cool. We're going to replace it with someone like me, someone who

00:42:43.260 doesn't make me feel bad, who doesn't have virtues dramatically greater than my own. And again, I just

00:42:49.940 feel like it speaks to the, the intellectual and moral poverty of this whole system of belief.

00:42:56.000 Yeah. It's, you know, it's, it frustrates me sometimes because of course I talked to a lot

00:43:00.100 of people in dissident rights circles and a lot of us are obviously talking heads, you know, doing,

00:43:05.560 doing internet scholarship and they'll say things like, well, you know, everybody in the military

00:43:12.220 is just a sheep and how could they go and fight and die for the, for the regime? And, and look at

00:43:17.260 some extent, I understand like at this point, I would not advise people to go into military because

00:43:24.000 the people running it hate you, but they will often try to denigrate the impulse, the people who

00:43:29.280 would be men of action, who would be rough and ready, who would be fight because they themselves

00:43:33.560 just simply would never engage in that behavior. And I tell them like, look guys, while you might

00:43:37.780 not like the thing that they are currently willing to fight for, you need to understand that the

00:43:42.840 impulse and the ability to do these great things is noble. And just because they don't have a noble

00:43:50.660 outlet to, to, you know, put that forward for does not, you are not better than these people.

00:43:55.980 I wrote down a, um, a quote from Carlisle cause I thought it was so great. He says, uh, a man lives by

00:44:01.440 being something, not by debating and arguing, uh, many things. And, uh, you know, and to be clear,

00:44:09.660 he's not just saying that it's only military men, right. Among his six archetypes, uh, are the, uh,

00:44:18.520 hero as the men of letters, the hero as, uh, well, you know, the, the hero as the prophet, the hero

00:44:25.860 as, as, as the poet, you know, these are not warriors in a physical sense, right? So he's not

00:44:32.080 just saying, well, if you're not the guy who picks up the sword, then you can't be a great man. He

00:44:36.580 clearly outlines at least half or more of his, as of his archetypes as his hero archetypes, as those

00:44:43.120 that are not specifically combat oriented, but the act, but again, the action is key in each one of

00:44:49.140 these is that these men were willing to forge ahead and create a world, um, and, and, and be

00:44:57.200 something and do something and not just talk about and debate something. So it's not just about, uh,

00:45:02.360 you know, physical combat so much as it is about, you know, making your stamp and, and being willing

00:45:07.760 to, again, be that man of action when everyone else is busy trying to find ways and excuses to not put

00:45:14.360 themselves out there and in those positions. And this is, this is very important because humans

00:45:20.800 are, are fundamentally mimetic, right? We view ourselves in terms of, of narrative. And so when

00:45:27.700 there, when there comes up something difficult that needs to be done, right? Something dangerous,

00:45:31.600 something uncomfortable, whether that be, you know, storming a machine gun nest or saying something

00:45:36.280 that is very unpopular, but necessary and true. People view themselves in terms of acting

00:45:44.060 in a narrative sentence, right? Acting like a hero. And, you know, when we look at something

00:45:49.700 like the recruitment crisis, right, we see the fruits of that society where heroism has been

00:45:55.900 deconstructed. You know, Oren, you, you and I both oftentimes referenced this concept from Lewis

00:46:00.900 of men without chests, right? That when you have, you have denied that sort of rank ordering of

00:46:06.560 virtues, right? There is a good and a bad way to act, right? That you can be judged by a standard outside

00:46:12.400 yourself. You get something like Uvalde, right? You get a situation where you cannot motivate men to

00:46:19.060 dangerous, but necessary and virtuous action. And again, I used a Marshall example, but, you know, 0.58

00:46:25.300 Carlisle and you and I both understand, you know, there, there are other men who have,

00:46:29.420 who have similarly faced danger. But I think that, you know, one of the other consequences of this is

00:46:34.880 that you will, you will create men who are without heroic instincts. And I think that we live in the,

00:46:41.660 the consequences of that, you know, people like Daniel Penny, who did something, who did something

00:46:46.780 dangerous, he is held out for ridicule. His, his life is by many, by many reasons ruined. You know,

00:46:53.380 you look at someone like, like Rittenhouse, right? And he very nearly was ruined. You know, he sort of

00:46:58.780 got out of it by the skin of his teeth. And so if we're looking at trends, and I realize this is not a

00:47:03.880 optimistic thing to say, but that will continue, because we have taken out that spark, right? We

00:47:10.280 have taken out, at least on the broad cultural level, that, that example, right? That meme,

00:47:15.460 that story by which we are supposed to, to orient ourselves.

00:47:21.480 So I think we would, you know, we would be remiss if we did not stop to talk about the great man

00:47:28.220 theory of history. Obviously, Carlisle never specifically formulates this, there's, there's no

00:47:34.500 that, this is officially how I understand history, or how history works, though he's certainly implying

00:47:40.800 that through the, the, the through lines of the different essays here, or the different lectures

00:47:46.020 here. And Carlisle himself is a historian, he writes large, you know, books on things like the

00:47:52.800 French Revolution. So among his many genres, he writes in history is most definitely one of them.

00:48:00.860 But most people have construed from this book, the idea of the great, the great man theory of

00:48:06.760 history, and that's usually juxtaposed against the trends and forces, theory of history. And today,

00:48:14.280 the trends and theory, you know, that's really where a lot of people put their stock, right? Is that

00:48:22.160 this is, people are all because of the, you know, the economic modes of production and circumstances,

00:48:27.780 and these trends and forces, they're the things that actually drive history. And that great man

00:48:34.060 history has in many ways fallen out of favor, because, again, everything has to not be the

00:48:39.820 product of a great man, we're very terrified of great men. So we need to strip them of their agency

00:48:44.380 in every instance, it's always the trends and forces, it's never the actors there. Now, I think

00:48:51.940 this is a situation of obviously both, right? Like, no man is completely made independent of the

00:48:59.140 trends and forces that act upon him of his time and of his tradition. But many people are acted upon

00:49:05.880 by trends and forces, and very few of them are great. And so this is very obviously a both and and

00:49:12.400 not an either or. But what do you think about the great man theory of history and the emphasis that

00:49:18.520 we've had the interest in shooting it down and making sure that it's all trends and forces in

00:49:26.340 today's education? I mean, I think like many things, it is presented as a neutral historical

00:49:33.100 disagreement, when in actuality, that is an ideological conflict. You're 100% right. You know,

00:49:39.400 even you see this in Spangler, right? The idea that you were a man of your season, right? If you were a

00:49:44.600 child of winter, right, civilizational winter, that is the mode in which you exist. And it's,

00:49:49.740 you can't really be, you know, a, you know, a great man as you could in the summer of your

00:49:54.940 civilization in this winter, right? It's the wrong context for that. But there's certainly something

00:49:59.220 to that. But I do think that, you know, if we accept the tenets of elite theory, right, that,

00:50:04.680 you know, you were always ruled by a minority, no matter the system of government, that is just how

00:50:08.980 humans organize themselves. I see the great man theory of history as an extension of that,

00:50:15.320 right? That history is the history of the elites. And certainly trends and forces impact that,

00:50:20.960 right? You know, for instance, right, that the world would be, would be very, very different if

00:50:25.180 the Spanish government hadn't, you know, bankrupted itself due to the broader economy,

00:50:29.580 right? That's simply how things work. But at the same time, right, the idea that it's all just,

00:50:34.340 you know, kind of this, this huge, you know, black box, you know, just system where inputs and

00:50:40.540 outputs are sort of, you know, controlled by so many people that it's impossible to identify any

00:50:45.760 human agency. That's obviously not true. And again, I think that we have to see that as a

00:50:51.320 spiritual and ideological claim, not a historical one in most cases. That's probably the best way to

00:50:57.580 view it. Yep, I would agree. All right, guys. Well, like I said, this is a great book, of course,

00:51:03.540 you don't get an entire theory of history named after it for no reason. It is, it is often, as

00:51:09.960 is often the case with Carlisle, a bit of a climb, if you're not familiar with his style. It is a

00:51:16.460 challenge for many, especially those who are unfamiliar. However, as, as Jay Burton said, it is

00:51:23.720 in kind of bite-sized chunks, because it is written as a series of lectures. And so it's a good thing you

00:51:29.780 can, you can kind of tackle one at a time, chew on it, come back to it. And it's not like you really

00:51:34.500 lost the three-liner of their narrative. So it's a, it's a good thing to kind of pick up a piece at a

00:51:39.140 time, think deeply on, take some notes, maybe reread it again, and then go on to the next one.

00:51:46.120 And even if you do that, you know, over a series of months, you won't have lost anything. So it's,

00:51:51.220 it's not a terrible place to go ahead and, and start diving into Carlisle, but, but certainly worth your

00:51:56.520 time. And of course, before we head over to the questions of the people, Mr. Burton, can you tell

00:52:02.480 everyone where to find your excellent work? Sure. So my primary mode of output is the Jay

00:52:07.720 Burton show, creatively named, where I interview people you've heard of like Aaron, like Lafayette

00:52:12.820 Lee. I've got Kriptos on tonight, roughly three times a week. I also have a sub stack that why I have

00:52:18.200 not engaged in much recently because I had nothing to say. And then a Twitter as well. If you're looking

00:52:24.160 for something outside that I've done, I was recently on Andrew Klavan's show. So if you want

00:52:28.100 to check me out there, you can. And again, Oran, thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate

00:52:32.060 this greatly. Of course. And you did a great job on Klavan. That was, that was well done. And also

00:52:36.580 you just had, uh, Daryl Cooper Marner made on, uh, that's another great talk that people absolutely

00:52:41.620 need to check out. All right. Uh, Creeper weirdo says, uh, uh, does this go back, uh, to who gets

00:52:48.640 a statue? Yes, it really does. Everything does go back to who gets a statue. Uh, and, uh, I, you

00:52:55.800 know, I love one thing that I heard Carl Benjamin say a while back, uh, the right should just be

00:52:59.460 building statues everywhere. The left is carrying down statues, uh, and the things it's putting up

00:53:04.240 barely qualify as statues. They're all just these terrible, uh, amorphous blobs, uh, that, that 0.99

00:53:09.820 everyone hates. Uh, the right should, should be in the business and putting up, uh, beautiful

00:53:14.060 and wonderful statues, uh, just all over the place. Uh, because at the end of the day, that is

00:53:20.160 a key, uh, thing that changes the way that people see themselves and their civilization.

00:53:27.840 Life of Brian says, we need, uh, we needed not to believe in the founding generation where

00:53:32.160 demigods in a literal sense, but it must be a virtual fact where we think to act as if they were.

00:53:38.120 Yeah. Again, uh, there is a sense in which there's a lot of people like to, again, deconstruct

00:53:46.520 what we call the civic religion. And again, I know that terminology can be scary for some

00:53:51.940 Christians, but understand what we're saying is there, there's a, there's a mythology that is,

00:53:57.860 uh, critical to the understanding of every people, including the United States. This is,

00:54:03.760 you know, this is where Jordan Peterson made such big inroads with people, you know,

00:54:07.820 when he tried to explain to people like Sam Harris, that there are things that might not

00:54:12.140 be factually true, but are truer than any fact. And this is also the, the case when it comes to

00:54:22.380 the myths of founding. And so, uh, while it may be easy to go back and try to dismantle all of the

00:54:33.060 founders, even for people who are reactionary and attempting to kind of dismantle some, some of

00:54:38.500 the more harmful, uh, kind of modern, uh, creations that conservatives have clung on to be careful with

00:54:46.000 that universal asset, uh, because it is important for certain understandings of those founders to

00:54:52.700 remain intact. Uh, that the, their continued truth is more important, uh, than, uh, than whether or not a,

00:55:00.880 a, a factual reality about very specific events happens to be the case.

00:55:07.280 Let's see. Life of Brian says, snap out of it, Oren. Uh, you are true. You are good. You're a

00:55:12.440 beautiful gosh darn it. People like you. Thank you very much, man. I appreciate that. Um, 0.59

00:55:18.380 Kubri weirdo says Dante may have been great and, uh, created great art, but he had a gay man in the 1.00

00:55:24.300 inferno. So all the meaning and death and power doesn't count. Yes, that is indeed how pretty much, 0.80

00:55:30.460 uh, everything goes. It doesn't matter if 99% of this is much greater than anything ever. Uh, I did

00:55:37.940 not say this thing that was hateful or racist in there. So therefore I am better than this person

00:55:43.360 who did things I could never hope to do. The converse of that, right. Is that you see how truly

00:55:49.000 terrible these people are at creating, right? Like just, just look at Netflix and you're like, okay,

00:55:54.100 sure. I guess it's not racist quote unquote, but, uh, I'll, I'll put it this way. I've been waiting

00:56:01.540 for the transgender Dante and I have yet to see anything and I'm not convinced I will. 1.00

00:56:07.400 Is the, uh, there, there was some comedian, uh, and I forget he's got a lot of play, uh, obviously

00:56:14.300 his joke, but it's like, uh, is like, you know, they keep telling me that America was built on

00:56:19.580 racism and, uh, now everything's falling apart and I'm starting to wonder where we can get some of

00:56:24.200 that racism. You know, uh, very, very funny. Yeah. Uh, creeper weirdo actually references Netflix

00:56:32.260 here. I don't care what they told you in school. Cleopatra was black Netflix current year. Yes. 0.94

00:56:37.540 It's the Ptolemy dynasty is very hard for people to grasp. Here's the, here's the best part creeper

00:56:42.820 weirdo in current year. They tell you that in school too. So, uh, Netflix and the public education

00:56:47.980 system are in lockstep there. Yes. Did you know all of Africa looks exactly alike? And that is the 1.00

00:56:53.420 not racist thing to believe. Yeah, really. Right. All people are exactly the same else everywhere.

00:56:59.040 Yes. They're truly an amazing moment. Uh, he also says you guys, uh, ever noticed that any man,

00:57:04.840 uh, man that a white person could look up to has some weird fetish. It's almost like it's all made up.

00:57:11.220 Karl Marx, let his children starve to end, uh, to the end. Fun fact. Well, let's, let's not talk about

00:57:17.220 Rousseau, but yeah. Um, uh, paladin, uh, YYZ says, get ready for a shift, uh, by your audience

00:57:25.320 from your YouTube to audience, Odyssey, uh, life. They are like me if they are like me. Okay.

00:57:33.320 Just don't want Google fiber kind of a deal breaker. I'm not sure, uh, what you're saying

00:57:40.360 there. Uh, sorry, paladin. Maybe it's difficult for you to watch on YouTube and you're moving to 0.70

00:57:46.120 Odyssey. My concern with Odyssey is that they keep, keep sending like they're going to go under at

00:57:51.280 some point. Uh, they're having a hard time, I think, uh, staying afloat, but I mean, obviously

00:57:56.340 I'm very glad that they exist. And if you prefer to watch there by all means do, of course you can

00:58:01.120 always catch everything on blaze TV. If you're worried about, uh, in any interruptions on any of

00:58:05.740 these platforms, uh, that's, that's the best way to make sure that even if something is censored or

00:58:10.260 pulled down, uh, it will always be up over at blaze TV. For instance, blaze TV is the only place that

00:58:15.660 you can get my John Oliver episode, which was, uh, uh, which was illegitimately taken down,

00:58:20.460 uh, by, uh, by YouTube. So, uh, Templar says the left is afraid, uh, to deconstruct itself.

00:58:28.340 Uh, yeah, that is of course a very interesting problem they are facing now there. They, they,

00:58:32.620 they are attempting to create their own founding myths and they did to some extent, but now those

00:58:38.700 are being eaten by the revolution and the things that they're attempting to prop up in their place

00:58:43.080 are simply, uh, they, they have no moral force and they, they aren't working. It's very clear. I

00:58:47.120 think. All right, guys, well, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up. Like I said, please make

00:58:54.220 sure to check out all of Jay Burden's work. He's doing excellent work over on his sub stack and his

00:58:59.660 YouTube channel. Of course, if this is your first time on this YouTube, YouTube channel, make sure to

00:59:04.920 subscribe, make sure you turn on notifications, click the bell. If you want to catch these streams,

00:59:09.440 when they go live, if you'd like to get these broadcasts as podcasts, make sure that you go

00:59:14.020 ahead and subscribe to the O.R. McIntyre show in your favorite broadcast or your favorite podcast

00:59:19.480 platform. When you do leave a rating or review, it really helps with the algorithm magic. And of

00:59:24.500 course, if you'd like to pre-order my book, the total state, you can go ahead and do that on Amazon.

00:59:29.200 You can do it at Barnes and Nobles books a million anywhere that fine books are sold. All right,

00:59:34.340 guys, thank you for coming by. And as always, I will talk to you next.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - March 18, 2024

Heroes and Hero Worship ｜ Guest： J. Burden ｜ 3⧸18⧸24

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