How Foreign Students Conquered American Universities｜ Guest： Adam Johnston ｜ 4⧸2⧸25
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
182.27853
Summary
In this episode of The Oren McIntyre Show, host Oren sits down with Adam Johnston to discuss the growing number of foreign students arriving in the United States as college students, and the impact that this is having on our universities.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
We hope you're enjoying your Air Canada flight.
00:00:10.720
Fast-free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land.
00:00:25.260
Wi-Fi available to Airplane members on Equipped Flight.
00:00:33.140
I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.
00:00:37.680
Marco Rubio has been leading the charge in deporting a good number of students who are
00:00:45.120
immigrants, who are activists, who are in some cases breaking the law in support of possible
00:00:52.500
A lot of people have had controversy with this because it is often in response to protests
00:01:00.740
But I think the wider question is, why is anyone who hates our country going to universities
00:01:07.960
I think actually it opens up the larger question.
00:01:10.800
Why are so many foreign students so prominent in the United States when we have a population
00:01:16.480
that is desperate for opportunity, desperate for the American dream, who is worried about other
00:01:22.020
foreign competition, working in, taking over jobs, taking over industries?
00:01:26.880
Why are we spending American resources and allowing foreign students to, in many cases,
00:01:31.740
dominate the enrollment at American universities?
00:01:34.500
Joining me to discuss this today is somebody who has appeared in both The Federalist and
00:01:51.340
So we're going to dive into a piece that is going to be appearing on The Blaze here in
00:01:55.840
a moment that you wrote about the college crisis, especially with so many foreign students
00:02:03.600
But before we do, let's hear from today's sponsor.
00:02:07.760
This episode of The Oren McIntyre Show is proudly sponsored by Consumers Research.
00:02:12.960
You've heard about Larry Fink and BlackRock and ESG and all the ways that they're ruining
00:02:18.040
your life, making grocery stores more expensive, making video games more woke.
00:02:23.660
Well, Consumers Research has spent the last five years making Larry's life hell, and they're
00:02:30.020
Their work and its consequences have been profiled in The Washington Post, The New York
00:02:35.200
Times, and most recently, Fox Business reporter Charlie Gasparono wrote a whole chapter in
00:02:40.740
his book, Go Woke, Go Broke, on how effective they've been at dismantling BlackRock's ESG
00:02:48.460
He's making Larry Fink lose that last bit of hair on his balding head, and you should follow
00:02:53.120
Will's work on X so you can laugh along with him.
00:03:10.900
So like we were discussing, Marco Rubio has come out with a lot of fiery rhetoric.
00:03:15.820
He's been pretty unapologetic about sending back people who he usually characterizes as
00:03:21.440
terrorist sympathizers, people who certainly do not like the United States.
00:03:25.540
But it has garnered a lot of pushback, again, because so many of the people who have had
00:03:31.180
their visas revoked, who are students, have been involved in these anti-Israel protests.
00:03:36.140
What do you think about the initial reaction about this strategy by the Trump administration
00:03:40.980
of starting their deportations here and the type of message that sends to foreign students
00:03:51.220
And I think the controversy kind of aligns with, as you stated in the beginning, you have
00:04:00.100
And if you have a lot of people on the right are going to be, like myself included, in terms
00:04:04.400
of being American first, you really don't want to have the United States involved in
00:04:09.800
So you'd rather not be involved in kind of subjecting people to, I shouldn't say subjecting,
00:04:17.900
but I should say suppressing the speech in this regard, because really this is something
00:04:22.860
Now, on the flip side, you have the free speech component of this, which is people are saying,
00:04:28.160
hey, we have a right to protest the government.
00:04:30.240
We have the right to say that America really shouldn't be involved in this, but where Rubio
00:04:34.760
comes in, and this is where I agree, because it really doesn't matter in my opinion, and
00:04:38.780
this is where I talk about in the piece, it doesn't matter whether you're pro-Israel,
00:04:42.420
you sympathize with the Palestinian people, or you're critical of both.
00:04:46.600
The issue is you have people coming into this country who, and this is Rubio's point, you
00:04:52.260
have people coming into the country on student visas.
00:04:56.640
They're here for the privilege of accessing American universities, and then subsequently
00:05:01.220
what we're finding is a lot of these international students are getting involved in protest groups,
00:05:06.440
getting involved in initially the pro-Palestinian cause, but then a lot of these pro-Palestinian
00:05:12.000
groups overlap with a lot of anti-Americanism and the anti-sittular colonial state narrative
00:05:19.200
that goes along with a lot of these groups that undermine American values, American culture,
00:05:24.560
and whatnot, and so Rubio's saying, hey, listen, if you're here to study, that's one thing, but if you're
00:05:29.140
here to cause disruption, if you're here to cause any kind of commotion on campus, harass students,
00:05:34.220
whether they're Jewish or otherwise, you violated the terms of the student visa.
00:05:41.260
We have that authority, and then subsequently you're in the country illegally, and subsequently
00:05:45.480
you need to get out of the country, and I think in that sense, I think he's right.
00:05:48.900
Yeah, I have to echo your feelings on this, and I think the feelings of so many where we look at this
00:05:55.260
and we say, okay, I don't want people in this country who hate my country, and if you're here
00:06:00.500
on a student visa, you're here on our good graces, right? This is us extending an invitation that is
00:06:08.200
entirely benevolent. You come in here, you get to take these opportunities. If you're going to be doing
00:06:14.540
that, you need to be on the best behavior. If I walk into someone's home, I don't just start
00:06:18.620
telling them I hate everything about their home, their children are ugly, I don't want to be around
00:06:24.200
them. They would throw me out of their house immediately, and they should, and so the only
00:06:29.240
concern for me is not the deportation of people who are treating the United States poorly while
00:06:34.920
they're here under our good graces. My concern is, as you point out, that ultimately we only
00:06:41.400
triggered this provision, it seems, when there was this protest for Israel, and people have a
00:06:47.840
right, especially Americans very much, have a right to question that relationship if they feel it's
00:06:52.600
necessary. That said, no matter how you slice it, a lot of these pro-Palestinian groups are also
00:07:00.720
anti-American, and so it makes sense that when people come in and they're trying to support those
00:07:05.380
causes, they're going to overlap with a lot of anti-American beliefs, and unfortunately, in many cases,
00:07:11.140
take actions that are violent or they vandalize something, they otherwise involve themselves in
00:07:16.740
a crime, and in so those cases, it makes perfect sense. Ultimately, I just want to deport people who
00:07:21.720
shouldn't be here or who hate my country. The reason why, the perfunctory thing that we have to go
00:07:28.240
through, I'm a little less concerned. I do wish that there was a different reason. I wish we had
00:07:33.860
started on, say, anti-American protests, talking, oh, the white evil colonial settlers, I wish we had
00:07:39.980
started there, deporting people when they were throwing those kind of protests around, when
00:07:44.080
people had foreign flags, no matter where they're from in these protests, but ultimately, the goal
00:07:50.340
is to get people who hate my country out of my country, and to the extent that Rubio and the
00:07:55.080
Trump administration are doing that, it seems positive. I just want them to widen the program,
00:07:59.540
basically. Right. Yeah, 100%, because, I mean, you look at the anti-deportation protests,
00:08:06.000
you always see the Palestinian flag, you see the rainbow flag, you see signs, no human is illegal,
00:08:14.180
we live on stolen land. I mean, it's all conflated together, but unfortunately, from a narrative
00:08:20.540
perspective, it all started with the anti-Israel protests and what they're doing to the Palestinian
00:08:26.780
people, whether that's justified or not. Again, that's not what the point of our conversation is.
00:08:31.280
This is just, I wish it kind of started more holistically about, you don't like our country,
00:08:36.000
you shouldn't get our education, and you should leave. Yeah, again, it would be great if we just
00:08:40.500
never had to care about this conflict ever, and the best way to do that is to never import the people
00:08:44.480
who care about the conflict. They can just stay over there and be very angry about the conflict
00:08:49.340
wherever they're at. Like, that's the easiest solution. So, pick them up, put them back where they
00:08:54.500
belong, and let them, you know, protest Israel there. That's fine. It doesn't bother me in the slightest.
00:08:59.440
Nope. So, this opens us up to the larger question that you ask in your piece, and I think one that's
00:09:05.060
really important is getting lost in the controversy because it's Israel versus Palestine, and for some
00:09:10.480
reason, that's all we can care about. It's all we're allowed to care about, but I think the far more
00:09:15.060
important question is, in this moment where so many Americans are struggling, so many Americans feel
00:09:21.020
like they're stuck in a rut, they aren't getting the kind of socioeconomic advancement that they're
00:09:25.600
hoping for. They feel like the opportunity that was promised to them, the prosperity for their
00:09:31.560
posterity, is being stolen. In this moment, it's so clear that our universities are dominated by
00:09:39.120
foreign students. You had some shocking statistics in your piece about the prevalence of foreign
00:09:45.540
attendance in most universities. I mean, obviously, I went to university 20 years ago at this point,
00:09:51.240
and even then, the prevalence was amazing. I had never met anyone from India or from the Middle
00:09:57.100
East until I went to university, and then we were swarming, you know, just swimming in people from those
00:10:03.800
areas of the world. What is the dynamic going on in American universities? How American are American
00:10:12.900
That's a great question, and that was actually one of the surprising parts of the piece when I was
00:10:17.880
doing the research on the Rubio comments. I was like, all right, well, you know, what is the scope
00:10:22.320
of international students at these universities? I mean, it seems like, you know, it's becoming a big
00:10:26.940
deal, especially at Columbia. So then I started to look at Columbia, and I found that at Columbia
00:10:31.200
University, you're talking about 55% of the entire student body, undergraduate and graduate, is
00:10:38.240
international students. More than half. I'm like, this is an American university with more than half
00:10:42.940
international students. And then you start to look deeper, and you look at the elite universities,
00:10:47.740
you look at NYU, 42% of their student body is international. You look at graduate programs
00:10:54.180
from Princeton, 42% of their graduate programs are international. And then you look at we're importing
00:10:59.560
1.1 million international students every year, which is up a little over 6% from last year.
00:11:07.520
And part of that is because the student visa really has no cap. So basically, there's no cap on what
00:11:14.200
they call F1 visas. And you can import basically as many as you want. And a lot of these universities
00:11:19.420
are doing that, because there's a financial incentive, first and foremost, international
00:11:23.620
students pay full charge. They don't get access to the student loans or not supposed to. So they get
00:11:30.060
the full tuition. And then of course, they also have their graduate programs, grants and things like
00:11:36.540
that come from the government. So what they want to do is they want to get as much money as they can
00:11:41.280
for these grants and these programs. So they want to widen the talent pool. So they recruit from all
00:11:46.760
over the world. And of course, if you're recruiting from all over the world, now you're putting American
00:11:50.760
students at a disadvantage, because American students have to compete with the entire world
00:11:55.200
to attend an American university. And that's just patently unfair. And the last part of this
00:12:02.300
is that you have a kind of elite university to corporate pipeline where, you know, we're in the
00:12:09.840
AI revolution and tech sector is becoming bigger and more important in our economy. And these companies
00:12:15.440
want to get labor that are in the STEM fields, but don't necessarily want to pay what would be
00:12:21.800
considered American wages. So you have the H1B visa. So these universities kind of supply the labor
00:12:29.580
labor to these companies in big tech and whatnot. And now, so that's where you get this whole pipeline.
00:12:36.060
You have the international component to it. And you have just American students are kind of on the
00:12:40.660
outs because they're competing, not just against international students, but they're competing against
00:12:46.140
labor, sorry, corporations that are trying to get the most for the least amount of money.
00:12:52.640
Again, there's so much there that I want to pull apart, but let's start at the beginning.
00:12:56.460
The numbers are stunning. Over half of Columbia University, almost half of a number of these graduate
00:13:04.200
programs that you're talking about. Yeah, it's an American university in name, but in name only, right?
00:13:10.540
Like it's an international institution that's running on American tax dollars.
00:13:15.940
You know, and that's a huge problem. You know, we are looking at an America first moment,
00:13:22.780
a moment in which people are saying, I want to improve the lives of the people in my country.
00:13:27.320
I would like the institutions in my country to work for me. I don't want them to work for Ukraine.
00:13:33.000
I don't want them to work for Zimbabwe. I don't want them to work for Israel or Saudi Arabia or Iran or
00:13:39.540
India. I want them to work for the people of the United States. And yet some of the biggest and most
00:13:46.200
important institutions, the ones that are critical gatekeepers for building up our nation and most
00:13:52.280
importantly, selecting our nation's elites are dominated by foreign students. If the majority
00:14:00.280
of the people who are being trained at some of the most prestigious universities in the United States
00:14:04.960
to become the next elite ruling class, the United States are foreign. What does that say about the
00:14:10.760
people who will be in charge of the institutions of the United States in 10, 15 years?
00:14:15.900
Absolutely. And with these programs too, some programs in the STEM, if you graduate in the
00:14:23.560
STEM fields, there's programs that allow these students to work within the United States for 36
00:14:28.800
months. It also, without any kind of corporate sponsorship, it also allows them to get kind of
00:14:35.500
on a fast track for permanent residency. And then to your point, these are the people that are now
00:14:39.760
going to be dominating the political elite from our American universities and they're not American
00:14:47.240
first and foremost. And this, it drastically changes the culture of the country. It changes
00:14:54.500
every, the social fabric and all of this is because American universities are essentially not serving the
00:15:02.060
American people. Obviously the focus has been illegal immigration. It's been great to see
00:15:09.280
the numbers for illegal immigration crater. Uh, obviously we're seeing deportations occur slower
00:15:15.760
for than many people would like myself included, but they are happening. So there's been a lot of
00:15:21.540
work on that front. The thing that has been concerning for some people, again, myself included,
00:15:26.920
is that the pathways of, uh, legal citizenship that are cutouts, workarounds, loopholes aren't really
00:15:34.580
thought about a lot. So the student visa, as you point out, is one of these that is very easy to
00:15:40.620
exploit. There's really no cap on it. You can bring in a lot of people, a lot of people overstay the visa.
00:15:46.620
So they become illegal immigrants in that sense, or, uh, they are put on a fast track, a pipeline,
00:15:52.860
but remember and people, this is something that a lot of people, especially on the left, just forget.
00:15:58.140
But even some people on the right, a visa is not naturalization. A visa is, is a temporary
00:16:04.960
pass to be in the United States. It is not a permanent invitation to join and become a part
00:16:12.280
of the United States. And yet many people say, well, as soon as I've got that visa, I'm working
00:16:17.300
for the green card. I'm built, you know, I'm going to get the job. I'm going to get in the pipeline.
00:16:21.120
And the whole point is that these, this is basically just slow rolling and naturalization
00:16:26.160
process. And when that's happening again, these are people who aren't coming in. They're not coming
00:16:31.540
to pick your fruit. They're not coming to clean your laundry or mow your lawn. These are people
00:16:37.060
who are coming to get high value degrees and fill critical leadership positions. Now, some people
00:16:43.560
might say, oh, well, we're taking the best and brightest from around the country. But what you're
00:16:48.100
actually doing is taking slots at Columbia University that could be used to train Americans
00:16:52.820
to be the best and brightest. And instead, you're pulling in people from foreign countries with foreign
00:16:57.660
interests and saying, actually, we're going to train you to fill these critical roles that, you know,
00:17:02.420
you're going to end up in a large corporation, perhaps, as you point out, undercutting the wages
00:17:07.400
of an American worker. And you have the scenario where not only are we, we're introducing competition
00:17:13.280
into higher education, which is already a limiting factor for Americans to advance, we're reducing
00:17:19.420
wages, and we're increasing a foreign element into the people who will influence our boardrooms, our
00:17:25.260
classrooms, our media, and ultimately our politics.
00:17:28.880
Absolutely. And the two major countries that are a part of this are India and China. As a matter of fact,
00:17:36.040
India, as of last year, they have over 330,000 students here on student visa, which is an increase
00:17:42.440
of 21% from last year. China is actually second at around 270,000, which is actually down around 4%.
00:17:50.400
But you can see when you're talking about the tech world, where the H-1B visa comes into play,
00:17:55.420
and the 21% increase from India, you can see that this is also very tech driven in that regard. And
00:18:01.940
not just that, but corporations, they're coming into the country, they're training the people to work
00:18:09.940
in the STEM fields. And then a lot of times, you'll have these people that graduate are actually
00:18:15.100
being trained by Americans at these companies, and they're training their replacements. So basically,
00:18:21.820
they train the H-1B visa student, and then they get fired from their job. Or the people that come into
00:18:30.080
the country for the education, they get the education, and then they leave. Because there's another component
00:18:35.620
to this where, yeah, around 41% of students stay in the country. But the far majority of, at least from
00:18:42.860
the undergraduate perspective, they actually leave and they go back to their home countries. But the
00:18:48.140
graduate programs, those are the ones that stay around. So to your point about the elites, those are
00:18:53.060
the ones that are staying and really having an influence. But on the backside, you have around 17% of
00:18:58.940
bachelor degree international students go back to their home country, basically. And then
00:19:03.400
Americans, American companies outsource work to those people that we just gave an education to
00:19:10.160
in their home countries. It's a debacle. Well, and I know people in exactly this situation. This
00:19:16.440
isn't just some abstract set of statistics. I know multiple people in the tech field who say,
00:19:22.520
I can't advance. There's no hope of me getting this type of job, because either A, everyone in my
00:19:29.680
company who is involved in this is basically involved in an ethnic supremacy ring. It's all
00:19:36.800
people from the same ethnic background who came into the United States and only Indians or whoever
00:19:42.420
qualifies is allowed to get hired into the jobs. We just know that that is a... It's like having...
00:19:49.940
The Italians are in charge of this part of the dock. It's the same mentality, but just in the tech world.
00:19:55.440
And the other dynamic is exactly what you're talking about here. Or they're like, yeah, I trained for
00:19:59.940
this job. So did this other guy who went back to India and now he's doing it at 30% less than I'm
00:20:05.920
doing it. So all those jobs that we trained them to do, they're now heading over there. And so we have
00:20:12.240
this constant drain of jobs for people that we educated to bring that over there. You touched on this
00:20:21.560
briefly, but it's obviously not just volume. It's not just the love of the foreigner. There are
00:20:30.520
financial incentives driving this decision by universities. You mentioned the fact that they're
00:20:38.000
getting this full tuition. What are some of the other things that are ultimately driving the
00:20:43.220
universities to select foreign students or make them a larger and larger part of their admissions
00:20:49.060
classes? Yeah. Well, I think the two components that I found at least was, yes, you get the full
00:20:56.540
freight. The international students pay the full tuition, which obviously helps. But because
00:21:02.680
these universities and American universities are competing with each other for federal grants,
00:21:08.700
federal funding, things of that nature, they want to attract from the biggest talent pool possible.
00:21:14.300
So they're looking global as opposed to with just American. So if the universities were to just focus
00:21:20.000
on American students, which is what they should do, but if they were just to do that, well, they might
00:21:24.040
lose out to other universities that are not doing that and getting a bigger talent pool. And then they
00:21:29.480
get funding for research grants and things of that nature. And that's where kind of going back to
00:21:34.620
Columbia with Rubio, the Trump administration is utilizing that money factor in terms of trying to
00:21:43.220
withhold hundreds of millions of dollars from Columbia in order to get them to revamp some of
00:21:49.240
their programs to stop with the race-based hiring and things of that nature. So they're actually using
00:21:55.360
that as leverage against the universities, which shows, and Columbia is acquiescing to this much to
00:22:03.080
the detriment of all the activists, because they don't like that they're bending over backwards to try to
00:22:07.540
get this funding back, which shows you how important this money is to these universities.
00:22:11.580
When I found out my friend got a great deal on a designer dress from Winners, I started wondering,
00:22:17.420
is every fabulous item I see from Winners? Like that woman over there with the Italian leather
00:22:22.700
handbag. Is that from Winners? Ooh, or that beautiful silk skirt? Did she pay full price? Or those suede
00:22:29.220
sneakers? Or that luggage? Or that trench? Those jeans? That jacket? Those heels? Is anyone paying full price for
00:22:36.520
anything? Stop wondering. Start winning. Winners find fabulous for less.
00:22:41.680
What does this say about previous administrations, previous conservatives,
00:22:47.360
previous Republican presidents that this option was always on the table? Like these universities were
00:22:52.580
always very heavily reliant on federal funding, our tax dollars. There was always the opportunity to pull
00:23:00.200
this funding and correct this problem. And yet here we are only just now seeing the tip of the iceberg
00:23:06.960
about how this power could be wielded. Is it just being terrified of wielding power? Were the
00:23:12.580
Republicans benefiting from this too? Is it just part of the liberal consensus? What was going on
00:23:18.280
here? Why would they not take action like this beforehand? That's a good question. I mean, I think,
00:23:23.680
and you've discussed this in general, I think you have, you know, left and right is kind of just a
00:23:30.200
different brand of liberalism. So I think, you know, in terms of where a nation of immigrants,
00:23:34.540
that whole, that whole narrative is something that both sides of the aisle really embraced up until
00:23:39.600
the Trump administration. But I also think it may not be the, well, first of all, like we know that
00:23:45.520
Republicans also don't want to wield power to do anything, but on the, then when we're talking about
00:23:49.960
the education system, that is basically like a Democrat fortress from the top down. You talk about
00:23:55.780
the department of education, the people that work in schools, the faculty, they're all Democrats,
00:24:05.660
70 plus percent. You're talking about in terms of donations to political parties, the far majority
00:24:12.940
of political donations from the, from whether it's from universities or things like Harvard or Columbia
00:24:18.960
or the department of education prior to the dismantling of it, they all went to Democrats. As a matter of fact,
00:24:24.880
in terms of the department of education, according to open secrets, 0% of any political donations from
00:24:32.760
people that worked at the department of education went to Republicans. So there was a major incentive
00:24:38.380
financially for, from the political standpoint, from the democratic party perspective, not to really
00:24:44.800
infringe on the education sector. I should say, before we go any further, for those watching that
00:24:51.080
this is pre-taped. So if you have any questions, normally we would love to take them. Uh, but we
00:24:56.060
won't be able to do that because we're not live right now. I'm actually at the right response
00:24:59.820
ministries conference in Texas. So, uh, thanks everybody for watching, but if you have any questions,
00:25:04.960
might want to save that for the next broadcast. So obviously we've talked about the, uh, economic
00:25:11.680
problem here. We've talked about the lack of opportunity that's afforded to Americans because of this.
00:25:18.580
We talk about the way in which the money is tangled up in this. However, something that doesn't get
00:25:25.140
seem, seem to get talked about a lot and really should is the national security aspect of this,
00:25:32.220
right? I'm told all the time that we are in an existential battle with China. China is coming for
00:25:38.420
us, Adam. They are going to eat your lunch. You're going to be, you're going to be, you know, uh,
00:25:42.320
you're going to be completely controlled by the Chinese. We also hear Iran very dangerous,
00:25:49.080
right? And yet student visas are open for all of these countries. Now I understand that ultimately
00:25:56.240
the people in the regime are not the same thing. There's plenty of great Iranians. There's plenty
00:26:00.440
of great Chinese people, but they don't have to be here. They're not Americans, right? Like that.
00:26:05.540
So first they don't need to be here. Second, if we're trying to reduce immigration and these people
00:26:11.860
are seriously an existential threat, then why are they here through our student visa program? We just
00:26:18.140
had multiple Chinese nationals who were caught spying in the American military. Obviously, again,
00:26:24.800
that doesn't mean that everybody who comes from those countries is an agent of the, those governments,
00:26:29.620
but ultimately why would we expose ourself to the possibility that we are bringing in possible
00:26:37.360
national security threats? I mean, you think about the nine 11 hijackers, they were all educated.
00:26:42.620
They're going to flight school. They came in on student visas legally for the most part, right? Like
00:26:47.440
we have seen this movie before and it's a tragedy in this moment when we are trying to put America
00:26:54.060
first, close our borders. Why are we admitting Chinese and Iranian and other students from hostile
00:27:00.720
powers when a, they're just doing everything we talked about, taking up resources that could go to
00:27:05.160
Americans, taking jobs, go to Americans, but be also introducing the possibility that we're bringing
00:27:10.180
in spies. We're bringing in saboteurs, ring in terrorists, or ultimately we're just bringing in
00:27:15.100
people who don't share our beliefs. Why would we do that? Why would we not just close the student visa
00:27:21.260
process to hostile countries? I mean, it's a great question and you know, it's, and you touched on
00:27:27.820
this. It's not just the fact that you might be bringing in spies or people who are going to
00:27:33.960
sabotage things or whatnot, or actually a lot of times the, as I said, the Chinese student population
00:27:40.360
last year was around 270,000 students. You know, a lot of these students are working in dual use fields
00:27:47.540
with dual use meaning, um, civilian and military purposes. So the fields that they're working in
00:27:53.840
can subsequently helped, uh, help China's PLA, the, uh, people's liberation army. So a lot of times,
00:28:01.280
even if they're not actually spies, they come to America, they get trained, they work at the Los
00:28:07.540
Alamos, uh, laboratory and nuclear fields or whatnot. And then they go back and China knows where they
00:28:14.640
worked. So they've get recruited to now work on government projects and military projects. And we
00:28:19.800
helped to facilitate that, which is ridiculous. Why would we be training people that we might have to
00:28:26.080
fight down the road? And the, and there's also the IP theft that comes into play, which, you know,
00:28:32.740
it doesn't necessarily need to be from a military perspective. People are stealing American ideas
00:28:38.660
and the reciprocity too, which is actually kind of funny. You have, I'm not saying, and I'm sure
00:28:44.060
that there are some good Chinese universities. I mean, they, they are good at technology and they
00:28:49.140
are good at, um, doing some things like that, but there's less than a thousand Americans attending
00:28:55.180
Chinese universities. And there's 270,000 Chinese students attending American universities. So
00:29:00.960
obviously, you know, they don't want us there really either.
00:29:03.980
I wonder how many Indian students are attending Chinese universities. I'm guessing that number is
00:29:08.840
also pretty low, uh, despite that. And ultimately this is an issue of brain drain too, right? Like
00:29:15.760
if we are bringing in the top IQ from all these other countries, then we are taking the bet, the people
00:29:23.920
most likely to make innovations, to improve the quality of that country. And we're also encouraging
00:29:29.920
flight from that country because the country is going to get worse. There are fewer, fewer people,
00:29:33.380
unless they're doing like you were saying, and just coming here, getting educated and then
00:29:37.120
taking our jobs back to that country. But in theory, if, if, if the advantageous model of
00:29:43.360
immigration through education that we are sold is actually occurring, which, you know, we can debate
00:29:49.020
that, but even in, in that abstract theory of how that should work, we are ultimately creating a
00:29:54.220
situation where these countries become places that people need to flee because they're not functional.
00:29:59.160
And so not only are we robbing our own people of the opportunity to be elevated, not only are we also
00:30:07.020
making sure that our leadership, our elite class is more and more dominated by foreigners with foreign
00:30:12.840
interests, foreign, uh, you know, traditions and beliefs, but finally we are robbing foreign countries
00:30:19.600
of their best and brightest in a situation that almost guarantees that once those, uh, countries end up
00:30:26.120
collapsing, we get the economic migrants who start flooding over the border because, well, there's
00:30:31.820
no one to run their state anymore. And all the educated people who would have run their country
00:30:36.800
are in the U S so I guess that's where we'll go. Yep. Uh, so you basically, you take the people that
00:30:42.440
could best are the best suited to help turn their country around. You keep them here as, and, and the
00:30:48.400
stats prove this out. We're over 75% of foreigners who are in the PhD programs. They stay in America,
00:30:53.800
so they are not in their home countries. So then these countries suffer the brain drain.
00:30:58.780
They don't get the people that are best suited to take care of their own countries. And then not
00:31:03.920
only are we educating these people, but then, you know, from a humanitarian perspective, we're always
00:31:09.720
sending, I mean, America sends money everywhere. We're sending money back to those countries that
00:31:13.440
cannot improve themselves. And then eventually, you know, we end up sending in, you know, sending in
00:31:18.640
the military to take care of some warlord that is, uh, attacking a UN convoy of humanitarian aid.
00:31:25.220
And then we're involved in that way. So, and all around we're hurting Americans and we're also,
00:31:31.120
you know, indirectly hurting the countries that are sending the people here.
00:31:35.520
And, you know, I had never really thought about this aspect of it, but of course it makes perfect
00:31:39.640
sense. I was listening to Eric Weinstein. Uh, he gave a presentation at the ARC conference in London,
00:31:45.840
and I have no idea whether this claim he made is correct or not, because I'm not a theoretical
00:31:50.160
physicist, but according to him, theoretical physics more or less got put in a cooler after
00:31:56.880
the 1970s. And the main reason why is you couldn't have foreign students working on really dangerous
00:32:04.620
cutting edge physics equations because, well, if you discover the next nuclear bomb or something,
00:32:09.900
you would basically just be putting spies for China or Iran or Russia or whoever in the room
00:32:16.380
with you as you discover it. Right. Which again, I hadn't really considered that, but makes perfect
00:32:21.640
sense. If you have an international coalition of students learning in a field, you have to be
00:32:27.300
careful about what kind of breakthroughs you can actually make, because if you discover the new
00:32:32.040
dangerous technology, everybody's in the room. There's no hiding it. There's no protecting your
00:32:38.160
country. There's no putting the, uh, interest of your country first because you've already exposed
00:32:43.700
the research. Everyone's already involved. It's already out of the open. There's too many interests
00:32:48.300
from too many foreign powers who are already in there. And so it reduces the amount of actual useful
00:32:54.180
research you can do in cutting edge areas in these university settings, because ultimately,
00:33:00.340
if you succeed in the goal of producing something dangerous or something very new that you don't
00:33:06.780
understand the limits and the power of, you could be creating a disaster. And so you have the,
00:33:12.420
you're actually limiting what science can be done, what research can be done, because ultimately
00:33:18.140
there's always the chance that you're backdooring it to your enemies because you constantly have people
00:33:22.860
from those countries in the room when you're doing the research.
00:33:26.860
Yep, absolutely. And you'd like to think that the people that are in charge of bringing these people
00:33:31.060
in would be thinking about this, but as we've seen with the espionage that's been going on and
00:33:35.340
whatnot, they're probably not really thinking more about that than they should. And they should be
00:33:38.800
thinking more about that. It's really important.
00:33:41.580
So, you know, at some level, we know that this needs to see reform. We know that the system is
00:33:50.400
broken. A lot of Americans who can't get an education, who want an education, can't get it.
00:33:55.140
A lot of Americans who want an opportunity, can't get it. We're creating a national security
00:34:01.640
problem. We're creating a international leadership problem. We know that these things need to be
00:34:07.480
addressed. At the same time, while I love a lot of what Trump's doing, his rhetoric on this is often
00:34:12.160
poor. He's right. He's like, everyone who gets through community college, staple a green card to
00:34:16.600
their, you know, to their diploma. We give them the citizenship card, right? The gold card, whatever.
00:34:21.220
Yeah. Yeah. So, so obviously there's a lot of mixed messaging on this, that the results have been
00:34:26.680
great, but ultimately you wonder how much they grasp the underlying problem. Again, a little
00:34:33.360
concerning. They grasp it when it's Israel being attacked, but they don't seem to grasp the wider
00:34:38.820
problem that's happening with the United States. Sometimes, do you think the administration is
00:34:43.080
looking at larger reform when it comes to these visas? And if not, what would you suggest? What do you
00:34:49.780
think would be some of the first steps that we could take to fix this problem? Or are there ones
00:34:54.920
you already see the administration taking that you're encouraged by? Yeah. I mean, I do think
00:34:59.180
the administration has signaled that it's not just about Israel, even if that was the catalyst for
00:35:04.860
this. I mean, Rubio has, has pivoted some of the talking points. He was saying, listen, you know,
00:35:09.020
if you're here to undermine America, I don't care what cause it is, you got to get out of here. So,
00:35:13.300
I mean, he, at least on the messaging has kind of been, uh, forthright in that regard, uh, initially
00:35:20.180
not so much, but now I think he is, um, what kind of reforms? I mean, I, again, I think, unfortunately,
00:35:26.260
I think, you know, the libertarian aspect of the Republican party is still kind of has a hold on
00:35:32.820
parts of the Trump administration when it comes to wanting to, you know, get, you know, best in the
00:35:37.600
brightest. You want to bring everybody in where a sports team, that, that whole analogy. And it's like,
00:35:43.240
you know, yeah, we're, you know, but we want the best from our country. We don't want that. We
00:35:47.680
don't want to go. We're not a global conglomerate. We're not a company. We're a country. So I think
00:35:53.780
in that regard, I think the administration needs more work on their messaging in that regard,
00:35:58.120
but in terms of like what reforms can happen. I mean, I think the fact that the F1 visa is
00:36:03.640
unlimited. I mean, I think having a limitation on the amount of people that you could bring in on a
00:36:08.520
student visa would be pretty good. You can start there. You could also, um, in terms
00:36:13.200
of schools that are getting federal funding, you can maybe put a cap on the amount of the
00:36:18.480
percentage of your student body. That's international. I mean, there's no way that
00:36:22.540
over 50% of a student's university student body should be international. You got to bring that
00:36:28.280
down to some level, I don't know, 15%, 20%, whatever it is. I'm not, again, I'm not an expert
00:36:33.300
in that, but you can, you can cap the percentage of international students at any given university
00:36:38.920
or any given program. You can reduce the H1B program, uh, in terms of how many visas you're
00:36:44.240
allowed to get. And you can maybe give tax incentives to universities that hire Americans,
00:36:48.900
or you can go after some of the endowments or do what the Trump administration is doing with
00:36:54.180
Columbia in terms of withholding federal funding until you come more in line with a more of an
00:36:59.760
American first policy. I mean, those are the things that I kind of research and things that
00:37:04.380
have been thinking about, but I mean, I think first and foremost, you just have to reduce the
00:37:08.400
amount of students that come into the country. Marco Rubio, uh, has been surprisingly good.
00:37:15.380
I think in, in this administration, I'm somebody who, you know, lived in Florida, uh, the vast
00:37:20.620
majority of my life. I remember I was actually in the state Capitol when Marco Rubio was giving
00:37:26.360
speech when he became speaker of the house at that time. Uh, so, you know, this is a guy who has a long
00:37:33.540
history. Obviously he's run for president, these kinds of things. A lot of people have seen him
00:37:37.480
more as a possible neo-conservative or, uh, you know, at times, um, he's had a little, uh, how do
00:37:45.360
I say this? His, um, Catholic sympathies have led him to, uh, you know, inter to, to immigration
00:37:53.280
statements that have been questionable, you know, gang of eight style type stuff. Yep. Are you surprised
00:37:58.640
to see this version of Marco Rubio? And if so, why do you think we got this version of
00:38:03.340
Marco Rubio? Yeah, I, I am surprised. I mean, cause you remember the debates with little
00:38:08.060
Marco and I mean, they, they, he went really back at Trump a lot, you know, back in 2016
00:38:13.080
and whatnot. And I think, you know, I mean, I think good politicians can read the room.
00:38:17.300
I think good politicians like Rubio can say, Hey, listen, you know, this America first thing
00:38:21.780
is actually, you know, has legs and it's not just, uh, like the tea party, uh, that kind
00:38:27.420
of fad, it was a fad, but got kind of taken over. But I think Rubio sees and reads the
00:38:33.320
room. I think he understands the messaging that's coming from the administration. I think
00:38:38.680
he's a savvy politician. I think that's kind of what it shows. And, um, I think he's, he's
00:38:44.140
been really good for the administration. I mean, he, he said, you know, in terms of immigration,
00:38:48.400
he hasn't just said illegal immigration is a problem. He, you know, he's point blank said
00:38:53.280
immigration is a problem. And that's a messaging that you have not heard from any Republican
00:38:58.800
in a while. It's always, you know, well, we don't want, we want you here, but we want
00:39:02.400
you here illegally. And Marco Rubio to his credit has at least said, no, the immigration
00:39:07.500
issue is the problem. It's the, the amount of immigration. And I think that's a, that's
00:39:12.760
a good sign for us at least to have people like that in the administration.
00:39:16.500
Yeah. That's obviously a huge Overton shift, your Overton window shift. And it, you know,
00:39:21.500
it's, uh, it's, it's really easy to live in internet time, right? Like it's really easy
00:39:27.440
to do this thing where, uh, you know, you've been talking about a problem for a long time.
00:39:33.780
And so, uh, the fact that the current administration is just figuring it out, makes it feel slow or
00:39:39.860
something, but you have to think about where we were just a few years ago, just a few years
00:39:45.160
ago, the idea that legal immigration could be on the table, not just illegal immigration,
00:39:51.660
but actual legal immigration. We could be saying, no, there's a justification for reducing that.
00:39:57.780
There's a justification for possibly even putting a moratorium on that. It's not just about the
00:40:02.860
process. It's not just about the legality. It's not just the formalism of the law. The United States
00:40:09.060
is more than a legal entity. It is more than a set of rules that we follow. There is something
00:40:14.960
specific and unique about the American character. And maybe there are a set number of people who can
00:40:20.520
come in and integrate into that and become part of that story and part of that belief and part of
00:40:25.580
that tradition. But that number is limited because the American people are real, right? It's, it's not
00:40:32.400
just a set of regulations that you step through. And that doesn't sound like a big shift. If you
00:40:38.380
haven't been picked, you know, if you're like, oh, well, you know, ultimately my, my goal is to have
00:40:42.640
like, uh, you know, the, the, the super base state that is completely, uh, cognizant of like the nature
00:40:48.040
of, of a nation and how it needs to control. I get it. But like that jump right there is just huge.
00:40:55.460
And it completely changes the game because now, uh, as you point out, yeah, there are still a lot of
00:41:00.960
people who are just talking illegal immigration, legal immigration, legal immigration. But before,
00:41:05.560
if you had even touched the subject of legal immigration, you would have been a xenophobe.
00:41:10.220
You would have been, uh, you're, you know, you're, you're a nativist, which is my favorite insult.
00:41:13.900
Like, oh, I'm for the native people of my country. Right. But yeah. So, so I, I just, I'm very
00:41:21.800
encouraged by that shift that you're pointing out there. I think it's critical that we're seeing it.
00:41:26.300
And I think it's important for people to remember how much we've won. Yes. There's so much more work
00:41:30.440
to do. Absolutely. But the fact that we're here and you know, it just came out, the Trump administration
00:41:35.380
was throwing out, uh, you know, a, uh, a gang member and people are like, oh, well, you know,
00:41:41.000
he was a father and like, yeah, he was a gang member. We don't care. He's gone. Like just that
00:41:45.720
approach is just so radically refreshing. It's, it's great to see. Absolutely. And, and, and JD Vance
00:41:51.100
is leading the charge in this regard. I mean, he's, he's going back and forth on, on everybody on,
00:41:56.020
on Twitter on this. I mean, he, he even said, you know, you know, the media leads with the,
00:42:00.880
oh, he's a father, but yeah, but he was in 2019, he, he's in the country illegally,
00:42:06.020
this MS, uh, 13 gang member or whatnot. He should have been deported. He wasn't the, the administrative,
00:42:12.340
the procedural error was that maybe he shouldn't have gone to El Salvador or whatnot, but he should
00:42:16.780
have been deported from the country. Maybe he shouldn't have been on that plane, uh, specifically,
00:42:20.640
but JD Vance is saying, no, this guy is illegal. He shouldn't be here first and foremost. And
00:42:25.300
JD Vance has really been leading the charge on that. We're a people. I mean, you know,
00:42:29.920
he's one of the first politicians to talk about America as a people and not just an idea. And
00:42:35.340
that is something obviously that you, uh, you and I, and a lot of other people have been talking
00:42:39.880
about on Twitter, but it's nice to actually hear the people that we're voting for talk about it as
00:42:44.520
well. Yeah. And it's, it's very clear. First, I want to make it, make it clear. Actually, uh,
00:42:49.640
if you're a violent gangbanger, I don't care if you knock someone up and I don't care where they
00:42:55.580
take you out of this country. Like really you're illegal. You're not supposed to be here.
00:43:00.680
Right. You know, uh, the fact that whether or not you are, you know, got deported to the right
00:43:05.300
country. Yeah. We'll make an effort to make sure you go to the right place. Right. But, but maybe try
00:43:09.120
not being in my country illegally. Probably maybe try not joining a, uh, you know, horrible gang that
00:43:14.460
rapes people and, and traffics and drugs and kills people. That's the issue. Right. That, that, that,
00:43:19.060
that is the much more important part of this. Right. Uh, but, but ultimately the fact that guys
00:43:25.000
like JD Vance are talking about this being a nation and that being the highest priority is huge. We know
00:43:30.680
that there is some level of internal disagreement on this. Uh, we saw kind of the H1B, uh, side of the
00:43:39.500
tech, right? Take the bloody nose in that debate during kind of the Christmas season. Um, but
00:43:44.440
it's good to know that someone who is focused on that truth is so close to power. It does seem
00:43:50.320
like the heir apparent of the administration and is ultimately, I think having a big influence on
00:43:54.800
where it's going. Absolutely. And I, and I do hope he is the heir apparent because really this can't
00:44:00.340
be, I know Trump has said that he wants a third term, but this, this, uh, can't be a, uh, four year
00:44:05.880
and done, and then just give all the power back to the Democrats. We really need a good run of these
00:44:10.880
types of ideas and the Overton window continuing to shift. We need this to continue for, I mean,
00:44:16.600
God willing forever, because we don't want the Democrats ever to get back in power, but in order
00:44:21.300
to get a lot of these, um, these, the executive orders are great, but we need them to be more
00:44:26.800
permanent because as we've seen, uh, like just with the, uh, 1776 commission where, you know, Trump put
00:44:33.260
that in place, the education, getting back to the education that we talked about right in the
00:44:37.160
beginning. Um, he put that in place. The report comes out in 2020. Here's some recommendations
00:44:42.880
for how to instill, uh, patriotism and tradition, uh, and actually counter the narratives of the 1619
00:44:49.200
project. And then Biden gets into office and basically just shuts the whole thing down.
00:44:53.100
So we really can't have that. So God willing, uh, JD Vance or someone in that same mindset will
00:44:59.440
take the mantle and, uh, kind of pick up where Trump left off. Exactly. All right, Adam,
00:45:05.400
we're going to go ahead and wrap this up here, but before we do, uh, where can people find your
00:45:10.580
work? All right. Well, uh, as you said, um, I have my own website, conquesttheory.com. Uh,
00:45:16.680
you can find me on Twitter at conquest theory as well. And, uh, I write some articles for the
00:45:21.820
blaze and I write some articles for the federalist. So you can see me pop up. But for the most part,
00:45:25.660
I do a lot of my work on Twitter and then I'll link to all the other stuff.
00:45:29.420
Fantastic. All right, guys, we'll make sure that you're checking out Adam's work. Again,
00:45:32.500
we are pre-recorded, so we can't go to the questions of the people here, but thank you as
00:45:36.540
always for watching. If it's your first time on the channel, make sure you subscribe,
00:45:40.600
click the bell and notifications. So when we are alive, you know, when we're going live and you
00:45:44.480
can catch those episodes. If you would like to get these broadcasts as podcasts, you need to
00:45:48.800
subscribe to the or Macintyre show on your favorite podcast platform. And when you do, if you leave a
00:45:53.120
rating or review, it really helps with the algorithm magic. And of course, if you would like to support
00:45:58.280
this channel, you can head to shopblazemedia.com, click on the Oren Macintyre collection, and there
00:46:04.400
is merch there that you can pick up. We got the Brutal American t-shirt there recently. So if you'd
00:46:09.160
like to do that, you'd like to pick up something and support the show, you can head over there.
00:46:12.720
Thank you, everybody, for watching. And as always, I'll talk to you next time.