The Auron MacIntyre Show - Immigration Chaos Rages in the UK ｜ Guest： David Azerrad

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00:00:30.000 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.600 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.500 I've got a great stream with a great guest

00:00:35.240 that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:38.020 Hard to ignore the news coming out of the United Kingdom.

00:00:42.140 There have been large-scale riots across the country.

00:00:45.700 Over 35 protests in response to a stabbing spree

00:00:50.000 that occurred there at a young girl's dance school.

00:00:53.220 This has sent the entire country into quite a fight

00:00:57.100 with different protests and counter-protests,

00:00:59.860 Native Britons versus many Islamic gangs marching around fighting each other.

00:01:04.480 Buildings have been set on fire.

00:01:06.360 Unfortunately, this is part of a larger trend of many Western nations

00:01:10.820 who seem more than willing to continue to leave their borders open

00:01:14.480 in defiance of the will of their people.

00:01:16.500 And this is having predictable effects on their native populations.

00:01:20.420 Joining me to discuss that today is David Azrad.

00:01:23.500 Thanks for joining me, man.

00:01:25.020 Thanks for having me, Oren.

00:01:26.320 Great to be with you.

00:01:27.780 Absolutely.

00:01:28.220 For those who may not be familiar with your background,

00:01:30.560 can you tell people a little bit about what you do?

00:01:32.420 Yeah, I teach at one of the very, very few morally and intellectually serious colleges

00:01:41.740 left in America, Hillsdale College, that I'm sure everyone knows about.

00:01:46.020 I teach in the D.C. campus.

00:01:47.800 We have a little campus in D.C. where we offer a master's program in government

00:01:51.460 and then have kids from the main campus who come to a semester with us.

00:01:55.780 And I teach political philosophy and American political thought.

00:01:59.360 And then on the side, you know, I do some public stuff in the public square.

00:02:03.660 I write essays.

00:02:04.360 I give talks.

00:02:05.600 Occasionally, I appear in the media.

00:02:07.820 And my accent, if anyone is wondering, is I'm originally from Montreal.

00:02:11.400 So that's the what's off about my English.

00:02:16.580 Excellent.

00:02:16.800 All right.

00:02:17.100 Well, we will go ahead and dive into the events in the U.K.

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00:03:42.040 I book a call with Rolf today.

00:03:43.840 So for those that are unfamiliar, what happened, the reason that we saw this violence in the U.K.

00:03:51.200 right now is that a 17-year-old who is apparently a second-generation migrant, he was born in Britain,

00:03:58.420 but there has been many different instances of terrorism, knife crime, other immigration-driven

00:04:05.320 crime inside of the U.K.

00:04:07.680 And when the 17-year-old decided to go to this dance camp for children, for young girls,

00:04:13.780 I guess it was some Taylor Swift-themed event, he ended up stabbing three children to death

00:04:20.080 and eight others were injured.

00:04:22.080 This created, as you might imagine, quite the outcry.

00:04:25.380 And that's why we ended up with this wide-ranging protest movement.

00:04:28.760 Over 35 cities were involved.

00:04:31.480 35 separate protests were involved.

00:04:33.480 Many of them did turn into violent riots, even though some of them obviously remained peaceful.

00:04:41.200 And in response to that, we saw many Muslim groups then come into the streets, start bringing

00:04:46.400 their own protests and violence into those situations.

00:04:50.840 The government, for their part, has freaked out, as you might imagine.

00:04:55.600 Keir Starmer, who's the new labor head of the British government, has basically said,

00:05:01.620 we're going to crack down, not on immigrants or knife crime or any of these things, really,

00:05:07.140 but it is the native population.

00:05:09.160 He's labeled everyone who is protesting out there far right.

00:05:12.740 He's made it clear that people attending these events will have very, very serious punishment.

00:05:16.800 In fact, he's even said that he's going to have a standing army of agents ready to break

00:05:21.820 this up at any moment, which has rubbed a lot of people who have been waiting for something

00:05:26.300 like a standing army to repel many of the immigrants coming into the country quite the wrong way,

00:05:32.580 as they realize that there is plenty of available force to push back against riots or protests

00:05:41.720 when they happen to be native-born Britons, but not so much when it's immigrant crime inside

00:05:46.340 the country.

00:05:46.860 So, David, my question for you is, this is a trend we see across many different Western nations,

00:05:55.380 especially Ireland not that long ago had their own violent outbursts due to a migrant crime,

00:06:01.920 another knife attack targeting children in their country.

00:06:05.180 Why do we see this obsession with open borders, basically, at any cost with so many European

00:06:10.860 nations and no interest from their leadership about pushing back,

00:06:14.980 as obviously the immigrants that enter often don't integrate well and bring violence in

00:06:21.820 many instances?

00:06:23.840 I think it's a convergence of two distinct worldviews.

00:06:28.980 You have the worldview of the ruling class and the elites, which I broadly define as neoliberal,

00:06:35.820 and then you have the worldview of the left, and I would distinguish the two, meaning there

00:06:41.000 are a lot of establishment powerful people who will, in their heart of hearts, are more committed

00:06:45.980 to profits than they are to leftist ideology.

00:06:49.460 They may mount the platitude, but the justification is different.

00:06:52.540 So, you know, one of the core tenets of the post-Cold War neoliberal order is something approaching

00:06:59.840 open borders and touting the economic benefits of immigration.

00:07:03.800 You know, immigrants are doing jobs.

00:07:06.440 I mean, you know, you've heard these arguments, right?

00:07:07.980 They're doing jobs that Americans won't do.

00:07:09.720 And look, I should say, there is some truth to that in the sense of, you know, a lot of

00:07:15.860 these immigrants are hungrier and harder working than some segments of the working class in

00:07:22.800 the West who have grown, you know, a bit lazy, and we think some jobs are beneath us.

00:07:26.840 Now, we may be willing to do these jobs, but at a much higher wage, maybe, than the immigrants

00:07:31.440 are.

00:07:32.320 But so one reason for the incessant influx of immigration is the interest of big business.

00:07:40.560 And look, to some extent, you know, the elites outside of big business who want the nannies,

00:07:47.400 who want the golf caddies, you know, fill in the list of jobs that they want done cheaply.

00:07:52.700 But then you have the left.

00:07:55.060 You know, the center hold of the left is obviously the academy.

00:07:57.980 And from there, the ideas radiate out into the broader society.

00:08:02.240 And there, the justification is, basically, they still have the trauma of the Holocaust.

00:08:08.560 And the lesson they took from the Holocaust is not that anti-Semitism is bad or that German

00:08:13.540 fascism is bad, is that white people are dangerous and that white hate is dangerous.

00:08:19.500 And I think in their minds, the only safeguard against another Holocaust or a variation thereof,

00:08:24.060 i.e. slavery, Jim Crow, is to reduce whites to a minority within their own country.

00:08:30.220 And so for them, it's a moral imperative because, as Susan Sontag said in the 60s, white people

00:08:37.280 are a race of, you know, no, race of devils as Malcolm X.

00:08:41.780 Susan Sontag said white people are the cancer of humanity.

00:08:45.600 These sentiments are, you know, they're not going to be expressed by the CEO of a Fortune 500

00:08:51.320 company, but they're quite common in the academy.

00:08:54.420 And so basically, these two very powerful interest groups that have some overlap, the elites and

00:08:59.500 the left, agree that we need a lot of immigration, preferably from the third world.

00:09:06.320 And then even if people in the elites might have some reservations, like you may say, well,

00:09:11.780 it's not good for business to have life.

00:09:14.580 It's not good for business to have the kind of, you know, Northern African underclass that

00:09:19.980 exists in France that are collecting welfare.

00:09:22.700 This is where the moral power of the left to come in.

00:09:25.960 Everyone's afraid of being called a racist.

00:09:28.280 So if you were to have the temerity, I mean, you know this.

00:09:31.500 You can't say, I want to maintain the current demographic composition of the country.

00:09:37.240 That is literally Nazism.

00:09:39.620 And who wants to put up with that?

00:09:41.360 So it basically falls on the right to try to have to oppose that.

00:09:46.060 But the right to is compromised because a large part of the right has bought into the neoliberal

00:09:51.280 ideology that immigrants are great.

00:09:53.220 We're a nation of immigrants.

00:09:54.820 And then another part lives in traumatizing fear of being called racist by the left.

00:09:59.940 And so it's the perfect storm.

00:10:02.440 It continues incessantly.

00:10:04.160 You say, why are there protests?

00:10:05.560 Because the people have consistently made clear that the levels of immigration are too

00:10:11.700 high and that they're not happy.

00:10:13.420 And then they're dismissed as racists who cling to their guns and their religion.

00:10:17.360 And the elites double down.

00:10:18.940 And so if you deny the legitimate sentiments of the people, a normal democratic outlet, like

00:10:25.480 voting for someone who will reduce immigration, then it explodes periodically.

00:10:30.480 Because the people are not happy with this.

00:10:32.460 They suffer the price much more than people who can afford to insulate themselves from

00:10:38.180 the immigration and live in the swanky neighborhoods.

00:10:41.080 And so it erupts.

00:10:42.160 I mean, I'm not making excuses for the rioting, but, you know, I suspect they probably feel that

00:10:49.180 no one listens to them.

00:10:50.340 And so they take to the streets.

00:10:51.420 And it seems to me it would be perfectly reasonable and compatible with democracy, liberalism to

00:10:59.040 say we should curtail, if not end mass immigration, give ourselves the time to digest and try to

00:11:06.280 assimilate this weight of immigration and then reassess in a few decades, assuming, you know,

00:11:11.680 we can even succeed in assimilating immigrants, which I think is an open question.

00:11:16.260 But that would not be Nazism, fascism.

00:11:19.660 It would be a perfectly normal democratic sentiment, but you're not allowed to express

00:11:23.040 it because that means you're trying to, I don't know, to keep America white.

00:11:26.580 It means you hate Muslims, none of which is true.

00:11:29.580 And so these legitimate concerns of the people are silenced and demonized.

00:11:34.280 And so they explode periodically.

00:11:35.520 I wonder, you know, you say this should be something that's completely compatible with

00:11:41.500 democracy and liberalism.

00:11:43.980 And ideologically, that probably makes some level of sense.

00:11:47.520 But in practice, it seems that's not the case.

00:11:49.960 And so I guess the question is, when did this diverge?

00:11:53.540 It would seem, as you say, that the, you know, kind of the ruling, the managerial elite

00:11:57.520 have a particular desire to continue this open borders policy.

00:12:03.100 Then the left have their own moral justifications for this.

00:12:07.060 The right, I think, is often complicit in many ways, especially, I think, particularly because

00:12:12.720 the idea that all Western nations are propositional nations has become so dominant.

00:12:18.520 Even, you know, you might have some, I still disagree with it, but you might have some argument

00:12:22.400 with that in something like the United States.

00:12:24.420 But obviously, in a place like the United Kingdom, there are white people native to that

00:12:29.780 island.

00:12:30.040 There is no argument about how they came over and conquered the island and oppressed the

00:12:34.880 people there.

00:12:35.700 Just this entire narrative doesn't apply.

00:12:38.300 And yet somehow, you know, you still get guys like Starmer saying, oh, well, it's about

00:12:42.300 British values.

00:12:43.400 It's really, or even, you know, the British right are largely talking about, it's got to

00:12:47.620 be about British values.

00:12:48.880 And so, you know, there's no opposition in that area.

00:12:53.380 And it seems like even though the ability to shut these borders should, again, be compatible

00:12:59.420 with the ruling ideology that, you know, that they claim to value, the defense of democracy,

00:13:05.840 we continually see that in fact, they keep betraying this.

00:13:11.000 They keep saying, no, this is off the table, completely unaccessible to us, and often leaning

00:13:16.240 on that idea of the propositional nature of the nations.

00:13:18.900 And it just reveals to me that ultimately, they don't believe in democracy, or rather

00:13:23.940 that they have, you know, a very strange definition of democracy, which is basically what the people

00:13:29.640 would vote for if they were smart enough to know what's good for them, and they weren't

00:13:33.140 so bigoted and didn't have their minds so corrupted by nationalism, chauvinism, and Christianity.

00:13:38.860 So I would say this reveals that they are the ones who are illiberal and ultimately anti-democratic.

00:13:45.600 But I think it's an eminently defensible position to claim the mantle of democracy, as I would,

00:13:51.340 or of liberalism.

00:13:52.460 I mean, admittedly, the term is open to some, you know, disagreements, but broadly speaking,

00:13:57.140 the idea of separation of church and state, government by consent, the rule of law and equal

00:14:01.300 rights for all.

00:14:02.440 I mean, look at the founders.

00:14:04.580 I mean, the founders didn't use the label liberal, but they believed in government by consent,

00:14:08.860 in the rights of man, in the separation of church and state, and the rule of law.

00:14:13.160 And look at the immigration policies they enacted, you know, the 1790, 1792, and 1795

00:14:19.160 Immigration and Naturalization Acts, restrict immigration to free whites of good character.

00:14:25.420 Now, you can disagree with that as a matter of policy, but it would take quite the level

00:14:30.820 of temerity to claim that, I don't know, you know, you understood American republicanism better

00:14:36.080 than the founders did.

00:14:36.940 And, you know, when they did things that were in contradiction with their principles,

00:14:41.240 like slavery, they all knew it and admitted it.

00:14:43.700 Like, you're never going to find Jefferson defending slavery as a matter of principle.

00:14:47.500 He knew full well that all men means all men and that, therefore, slavery is in contradiction.

00:14:51.640 Whereas, when it comes to these immigration policies, where do you find any remorse from

00:14:57.280 the founders saying, oh, this is incompatible with our principles?

00:14:59.660 It isn't.

00:15:01.020 So I think it's important to do that because, well, the main advantage they have morally is

00:15:08.640 browbeating us into submission by calling us racist, by calling us fascist.

00:15:13.460 I mean, I don't, we don't need to go over this, especially not with you and with your audience.

00:15:18.180 But I refuse to give up the mantle of, I don't know, America, democracy, republicanism, liberalism,

00:15:26.160 whatever you want to call it, in opposing immigration.

00:15:28.640 It is most emphatically not incompatible with, you know, whatever the professed ideals of

00:15:36.760 democracy are.

00:15:37.520 And they are the ones who distort them.

00:15:40.440 And, but by the way, they do that on everything.

00:15:42.020 Like, when the people don't vote the right way on gay marriage, you stuff it down their

00:15:46.420 throats.

00:15:47.000 When the people don't accept affirmative action, the people have not been happy with affirmative

00:15:51.620 action for decades.

00:15:53.140 Well, you continue to stuff it down their throats.

00:15:55.680 And, you know, now that the courts are pushing back on something, suddenly watch the Democratic

00:16:00.700 Party and the left become anti-court.

00:16:02.620 So, you really see that they have redefined democracy to basically mean, I don't know how

00:16:10.580 cynical you want to be.

00:16:11.600 It could either be whatever the hell we want and what we think is right and we'll call it

00:16:15.660 democracy.

00:16:16.320 Or if you want to be slightly more generous is, well, what the people would actually want

00:16:21.060 if they didn't have their mind distorted by Fox News and UKIP and Donald Trump and then,

00:16:26.340 you know, the prejudices they have.

00:16:27.900 Like, if we could get them to be as enlightened as we are, then they would see it the way

00:16:32.620 we do.

00:16:33.880 So, we're going to drag them to democracy, kicking and screaming, and one day they may

00:16:37.820 thank us for this.

00:16:39.040 Well, you know, if that's what you think, that ain't democracy.

00:16:41.520 That's what you do to children.

00:16:43.140 It's not what you do to free citizens of a free country who have the right to vote.

00:16:47.040 I think in their minds, democracy is more of a global phenomenon, right?

00:16:51.320 It's kind of like the Schmittian, you know, he who invokes humanity is planning to cheat

00:16:59.000 a little bit there.

00:16:59.760 But, you know, you are an enemy of democracy.

00:17:02.260 You are outside the democracy because there's a global understanding of how we should be

00:17:07.000 as people.

00:17:07.920 And that's what democracy really means.

00:17:10.220 If the rest of the world had a say in this moment, they would vote with us.

00:17:14.260 And so, really, we're just bringing you to the table of what democracy absolutely has

00:17:18.280 to be at the end.

00:17:19.040 Yeah, with, of course, the important caveat that you'll notice that they're not pushing

00:17:23.960 these policies on non-Western nations.

00:17:29.380 I mean, no one is calling for, I don't know, massive, I mean, Africa has none of the diversity

00:17:35.340 that is supposedly our strength.

00:17:38.880 Where is the widespread effort, I don't know, to resettle Asians and whites there?

00:17:43.020 I mean, to even raise this is ludicrous, right?

00:17:45.460 I mean, who in the left would say we need to send more people to live in Africa?

00:17:50.520 I mean, that's colonialism.

00:17:51.720 That's evil for them.

00:17:52.740 So it is global, except it's only, only the joys of diversity are only ever imposed on

00:18:01.600 one set of countries and not on others.

00:18:05.720 So one issue that I think that I always wonder about is, you know, as you pointed out, there's

00:18:12.240 the, you know, you kind of have the ruling class, neoliberal, managerial, however you'd

00:18:15.740 like to identify it.

00:18:17.440 And then you have more the ideological true believers of the left.

00:18:20.700 And, you know, Sam Francis, uh, when he was in Leviathan, his enemies was talking about

00:18:26.180 how basically, uh, you know, at some point you had like the new left and it had to catch

00:18:30.200 up with the managerial regime.

00:18:31.640 And they, they had a similar, uh, goal.

00:18:34.040 They were, they were heading a similar direction, but basically the managers realized they had

00:18:37.480 to boil the frog slowly as where the, the radical ideological left wanted to happen now.

00:18:42.880 And this is why they appeared to be enemies.

00:18:44.580 The establishment and the left appeared to be enemies early on, but now they seem to

00:18:48.760 be approaching, approaching this, uh, this horizon where they kind of merge together.

00:18:53.480 But as the application of radical leftism has seeped into, I think kind of the managerial

00:19:00.480 formulas, more and more of the established managers have become true believers.

00:19:05.960 It seems to be that we're losing the brakes for this train that they can no longer figure

00:19:10.360 out where the, uh, the application of ideology for, uh, the app for the acquirement or for

00:19:17.020 acquiring power starts and where the, uh, you know, the actual benefits of it end.

00:19:22.100 And so we ended up the scenario where they buy into policies that seem to doom their society,

00:19:27.920 even though they're supposed to be kind of these cold reasoning, uh, managers who, who are

00:19:32.460 really only interested in operating this global empire.

00:19:35.100 Yeah.

00:19:36.100 And in making money, um, you know, the, the, there's a poem I love by Alexander Pope.

00:19:42.680 It opens by saying, search thou the ruling passion.

00:19:45.860 There, the wild are constant and the cunning known, uh, to me, the ruling passion of the

00:19:50.980 managerial elite would be greed and the ruling passion of the left would be, um, I think

00:19:59.340 resentment.

00:19:59.880 Um, this is something where I think Nietzsche is right.

00:20:03.600 Uh, resentment primarily directed at the success of the West and a hatred of the West, even

00:20:10.160 though they belong to it.

00:20:11.400 Now, I think the managerial elite, you said, many of them have become true believers, meaning

00:20:16.720 there are elements of the left that is now embedded in the corporations.

00:20:20.160 I think those who are not, how do they justify their actions?

00:20:25.720 I think it has to be a combination of either they partially believe their own lies, meaning

00:20:33.360 not the left's lies that we're a nation of immigrants.

00:20:35.980 This is no different than when the Irish came to America and the immigrants built this country,

00:20:41.600 uh, coupled with, uh, short termism.

00:20:46.220 Um, like there's a lot of money to be made and, you know, let's be honest, America is an

00:20:52.720 obscenely wealthy country.

00:20:54.240 I mean, I mean, if there's so much money here, life is so comfortable, at least at the top,

00:21:01.560 if you can insulate yourself from some of the bad aspects of it.

00:21:04.500 So they probably don't feel it that much.

00:21:08.460 Um, and then, like I said, I think the fear, like say you are, you know, the head of a major

00:21:15.760 corporation and you're starting to have second doubts about this mass immigration, what are

00:21:20.700 you going to do about it?

00:21:22.780 Like basically get crucified in the public square, uh, be socially ostracized in the big blue cities

00:21:30.520 where you live.

00:21:31.240 Like, you know, in America, it's much easier to come out of the closet as a homosexual than

00:21:36.340 it is as a Trump supporter.

00:21:38.200 You know, one side will, you'll get honor and pride and love.

00:21:41.600 If you come out as a, you know, you know, that, uh, curb your enthusiasm episode where

00:21:45.000 Larry starts wearing a MAGA cap because he wants to be left alone in public.

00:21:48.740 He doesn't want people to talk with him.

00:21:50.800 I mean, that might not work, you know, in many parts of America, but in Beverly Hills, of

00:21:55.720 course it'll work.

00:21:56.380 So the incentives are such that, I mean, occasionally you get some like these traders to their class.

00:22:05.280 You know, I mean, Tucker, I think is a great example.

00:22:07.320 And although, you know, he paid a price, like he lost the show and he's been pushed into the

00:22:12.240 internet.

00:22:12.480 Now I read recently that he has the most listened to podcast.

00:22:16.960 He, he beat out Joe Rogan.

00:22:18.600 So you've got, you've got to work a little bit harder to get there.

00:22:22.800 So there are still traders to their class.

00:22:25.120 I don't know if you, I mean, actually this is something I don't know.

00:22:27.500 Has Elon Musk said anything about immigration?

00:22:30.680 Do you know?

00:22:31.880 Yes.

00:22:32.120 He's been very clear that he's anti-illegal immigration, but pro large amounts of legal

00:22:37.240 immigration.

00:22:37.500 Okay.

00:22:37.760 So there you go.

00:22:38.520 Okay.

00:22:38.680 So he, yeah.

00:22:39.240 So he hasn't gone.

00:22:40.540 Then again, he's kind of libertarian ish.

00:22:42.600 Right.

00:22:42.820 I think in a lot of his sensibilities, but, um, all this to say is.

00:22:47.660 You know, the right is going to have to step up and, um, you know, almost all Western countries

00:22:56.140 have a significant populist movement.

00:23:00.360 One exception is my native land of Canada, which is, I think shows how cooked Canada is.

00:23:05.460 It kind of is astounding with the immigration and the problems that Canada has, that there

00:23:10.600 really is no Trump, Zemmour, Pierre Wilders, Victor Orban, forgetting power.

00:23:17.400 I mean, even in parliament, um, and if the right doesn't succeed, then there's no way

00:23:25.020 this ends well.

00:23:26.280 I mean, I don't know how it ends, but this is clearly not sustainable.

00:23:31.600 But, you know, I look, when I go home to Montreal, I feel it.

00:23:36.600 It's a marketplace.

00:23:37.880 It's a souk.

00:23:39.080 It's not a country.

00:23:40.640 I don't feel that there's any genuine coherence.

00:23:43.640 There's no large scale violence.

00:23:45.520 People generally get along.

00:23:47.940 But, you know, it's a bunch of people doing business with one another, living side by side.

00:23:51.800 You don't feel that there is a coherence.

00:23:54.640 And I think it's only going to get worse as there's more and more diversity.

00:23:59.320 And then how it all ends, I don't know.

00:24:01.140 But, yeah, I'm not counting on the managerial elite to one day decide.

00:24:07.460 I think they probably think we'll just get the hell out of Dodge one day.

00:24:11.560 And I don't know, relocate to Singapore or to Hong Kong.

00:24:14.520 Actually, I don't know.

00:24:15.500 I mean, I don't know what they're thinking.

00:24:17.600 I'm a lowly professor.

00:24:19.040 I'm not in contact with the bigwigs at Goldman Sachs.

00:24:22.620 But, you know, capital is mobile.

00:24:24.240 Well, China's rising, so maybe they think that, you know, if it gets really bad, we'll

00:24:29.100 just pack up and go.

00:24:31.080 Yeah, there's a reason you actually want your elites tied to the well-being of the places

00:24:35.620 they govern.

00:24:36.620 You don't want that.

00:24:37.480 You don't actually want your human capital to be that fluid.

00:24:41.020 Yeah.

00:24:41.740 Yeah.

00:24:42.080 So one of the issues that I think a lot of people look at and wonder about when we see

00:24:48.900 the, you know, like Starmer saying, I've got a, you know, I've got a standing army

00:24:53.260 I'm going to bring against these people.

00:24:54.680 We're going to go ahead and put an end to this right now.

00:24:57.780 Obviously, Canada had the trucker protests and, you know, there was a lot of manipulation.

00:25:02.140 There's a lot of Fox-style manipulation of financial systems, shutting people down, controlling

00:25:08.020 the media, making sure that your bank account got drained.

00:25:11.100 But at the end of the day, they still ended up, you know, taking a billy club and knocking,

00:25:15.560 you know, some heads and dragging truckers off of a bridge to end the protest.

00:25:19.920 I think one of the problems with a lot of these modern governments is that they have

00:25:25.360 swapped out a large amount of their security forces from being something that is competent

00:25:30.520 to being something that is ideologically aligned.

00:25:32.720 And to do that, they've had to enlist the, you know, a lot of women, a lot of people who,

00:25:37.560 you know, a lot of foot soldiers who probably aren't that great at being soldiers, but are

00:25:40.800 really good at absorbing propaganda.

00:25:42.980 And so I think they're in this strange scenario where they want to be intimidating.

00:25:46.760 They want to shut down these protests.

00:25:48.080 They recognize the danger.

00:25:49.520 I think this is why you see, for instance, the obscene overreaction to January 6th when

00:25:54.500 it came to the American ruling class, because for the first time in a long time, even though

00:25:58.820 the protests were relatively not violent compared to anything we saw in BLM, it still felt like

00:26:04.420 they might actually test the waters of what it meant to go up against lions instead of

00:26:09.180 foxes.

00:26:10.140 And so we ended up in this scenario where, you know, they're freaking out and they're, you

00:26:14.040 know, throwing every grandma who was in a hundred, a hundred miles of the Capitol during

00:26:18.760 that day into prison as long as possible.

00:26:21.460 But at some point you wonder, can these managerial types who are so bad at violence and have replaced

00:26:28.000 their security forces with a lot of people who aren't very good at applying it, can they

00:26:33.020 ultimately keep control of these nations should things turn south for them?

00:26:37.220 So you've always been picky about your produce, but now you find yourself checking every label

00:26:43.400 to make sure it's Canadian.

00:26:45.480 So be it.

00:26:46.560 At Sobeez, we always pick guaranteed fresh Canadian produce first.

00:26:50.820 Restrictions apply.

00:26:51.780 See in-store or online for details.

00:26:55.860 I gotta tell you, I never thought of it that way, but that would be a delicious irony if,

00:27:00.980 you know, basically, you know, I worry about wokeness getting into engineering.

00:27:05.220 I mean, bridges collapsing, getting into medicine, people dying on the operating table.

00:27:10.260 You're saying, what if it basically undermined the regime forces used to crack down on dissent?

00:27:21.520 Look, I think you've thought about this more than I have, but my initial reaction is no,

00:27:27.880 because you still have overwhelming force.

00:27:30.800 You have numbers.

00:27:33.740 You still have a lot of competent people.

00:27:36.360 Like, look at January 6th.

00:27:37.940 I mean, the Capitol Hill police seems to me to be not just morbidly obese elderly women.

00:27:45.320 And then you have the law.

00:27:48.180 Like, okay, maybe you don't, you know, beat out the 22-year-old in a fistfight,

00:27:53.680 but that's not what you need to do.

00:27:54.880 You just need to handcuff him and hand him over to the authorities,

00:27:58.100 and then the system takes care of it.

00:28:00.800 So, to me, I don't, I don't know, that'd be too cute by half,

00:28:06.560 or maybe it's wishful thinking to think that it'll collapse on its own that way when it's turned against us.

00:28:12.380 I think they have the ability to do a lot of harm to people,

00:28:16.180 which they are doing little by little.

00:28:18.040 I mean, look, we still, you know, look, you're still on the air, right?

00:28:22.300 So, I think our side has a tendency to get a bit too hysterical with America as an illegitimate tyranny.

00:28:29.080 I mean, come on, let's not get carried away, right?

00:28:32.320 There's, I think we live in a golden age of dissent.

00:28:35.920 I think it is easier today to access dissenting information than it ever has been.

00:28:41.400 Musk buying Twitter has definitely helped, but even independently of that,

00:28:44.980 you know, I was at Mount Holyoke last week, and of course, their bookstore is claiming to sell banned books.

00:28:51.140 I'm like, come on.

00:28:52.080 If they were banned books, you wouldn't be selling them.

00:28:53.840 These are not banned books.

00:28:54.800 This is like some public library in Wichita that said, we won't carry it.

00:28:58.400 You can get any book you want shipped to your house within 24 hours.

00:29:01.360 So, we still have a long way to go, but what worries me more than the police crackdown on mobs,

00:29:12.360 because part of it is, I don't know, I don't support mob violence on our side.

00:29:17.620 I mean, especially not on their side, but I don't think it's the solution is for us to start rioting.

00:29:23.160 I do think we should start protesting, and I think there's a lot that could be done within the bounds of the law

00:29:27.800 without beating up civilians and setting fire to cities.

00:29:32.720 I also don't see what good will come from that.

00:29:36.420 What worries me more is the lawfare.

00:29:38.880 It's like the Doug Mackeys of the world.

00:29:42.460 And there, I guess, yeah, there also, you know,

00:29:44.700 wokeness is going to erode the competence of the prosecutors, of the judges,

00:29:49.940 but ultimately, this is still, the regime has a lot of power.

00:29:55.120 And what these episodes reveal is that,

00:29:57.800 they don't secure the border or stop the George Floyd riots,

00:30:01.760 it's not because they can't, but it's because they won't.

00:30:04.500 Because when they decide to do something, they're actually somewhat capable.

00:30:09.700 Not as capable as they maybe once were.

00:30:12.660 Look at the pier in Gaza, what a farce that was.

00:30:15.440 The U.S. military, $300 million pissed out into the ocean.

00:30:19.760 And what a farce this shows.

00:30:22.180 Of course, we are in some regards.

00:30:24.860 But I still fear, I think we should still fear the regime.

00:30:29.540 And I think the one thing I want to make clear is I said we're not a tyranny.

00:30:32.980 I don't think we will be in the short future,

00:30:35.300 but things are definitely trending in that direction.

00:30:37.980 In terms of more and more dissent, more and more repression, more and more censorship.

00:30:44.760 That I'm not at all blind to it.

00:30:46.420 So mine is not, oh, it's okay, there's nothing to worry about, you know, Amazon will ship you books.

00:30:50.780 But it's also, I don't think, good to be hysterical to the point where you start making drastic measures

00:30:56.940 that may not be warranted because you don't see that maybe more, less radical measures may prove to be fruitful.

00:31:05.640 Yeah, I think it really depends on the status of the country.

00:31:08.980 So, for instance, a place like the U.K. or Canada might be in a very different situation than perhaps America or France

00:31:16.620 because of the level of actual pushback that exists somewhere inside the political system.

00:31:23.880 You know, the problem with mass immigration is that it's really a problem.

00:31:30.580 There's a collapsing decision space issue here, right?

00:31:33.500 Like, over time, the longer your borders are open,

00:31:37.820 the more difficult it is to solve the problem of open borders through the democratic mechanism.

00:31:42.900 And so if you're in the situation where the United States is,

00:31:45.620 where you have perhaps a viable opposition that is willing to take action relatively soon,

00:31:52.300 then perhaps the need for doing anything outside of the formal political process is much different

00:31:59.280 as opposed to, like, where Canada or somebody, even by the time they recognize they need a real opposition party,

00:32:05.900 will not have time to raise and create a significant pushback before basically their fate is sealed.

00:32:12.040 Yeah, and let me maybe go counter to what I said.

00:32:15.420 You know, I'm maybe at my most blackpailed, and I'm a generally optimistic person about this country,

00:32:25.100 maybe because I'm from Canada.

00:32:26.720 And so I can, you know, where Canada just really has no real conservative movement,

00:32:31.140 no real opposition, no magazines, no.

00:32:33.200 So I see a lot of good things in the U.S. that don't exist in Canada,

00:32:38.760 and that tends to make me a bit more optimistic.

00:32:40.880 But I am completely blackpailed about us ever deporting the illegals.

00:32:47.100 I pray to God that I'm wrong.

00:32:50.140 Nothing would make me happier.

00:32:52.840 I don't know, you re-invite me a few years from now, I don't know,

00:32:55.660 after the second J.D. Vance term on the back of the first Trump term,

00:32:59.480 and you say, David, I'm going to play the clip.

00:33:01.840 You said they're never going to deport the illegals, and they did.

00:33:04.120 Hold on, that would make me so happy.

00:33:07.000 I don't think we have the stomach.

00:33:09.660 And if we somehow mustered the stomach,

00:33:12.820 the hysteria of the media and of the left,

00:33:17.240 I don't see how we could get it done.

00:33:19.220 I mean, you remember the so-called Muslim ban, right?

00:33:22.340 A 90-day temporary hiatus on immigration

00:33:26.440 from seven predominantly Muslim countries.

00:33:29.740 About as insignificant a policy as it gets in the grand scheme of things.

00:33:34.800 They reacted like we had, I mean, the Third Reich,

00:33:38.200 like they were, I don't know, rounding up Jews

00:33:39.700 and sending them to the camps.

00:33:41.480 They completely freaked out.

00:33:43.500 Lawfare, national injunctions by judges.

00:33:46.840 Imagine the media coverage if we started deporting the illegals.

00:33:54.340 That is when my morale is, because they're here.

00:33:57.740 If, heaven forbid, Harris is elected, more will come in.

00:34:01.620 In theory, we could get rid of them.

00:34:03.780 I mean, again, without violating any democratic norms.

00:34:07.940 They're here illegally.

00:34:08.880 You should be removed.

00:34:10.520 And if we're not going to forcibly remove everyone,

00:34:12.700 we could really remove the incentives of being here.

00:34:16.840 You know, making it harder to work, tax remittances, you name it.

00:34:20.940 But I don't know what you think.

00:34:23.120 I mean, I'd love to be cheered up,

00:34:24.640 but I have just a hard, hard time seeing.

00:34:27.980 Maybe there's like a symbolic 10,000

00:34:30.580 so that Trump can do a victory lap and say, I did it.

00:34:33.540 But mass deportations of illegal immigrants,

00:34:37.580 I don't see how it happens.

00:34:41.120 Am I wrong?

00:34:41.460 I think it's one of those things that has to become possible,

00:34:44.700 but isn't possible yet.

00:34:46.100 I think any actual solution is not currently politically tenable.

00:34:53.080 And that's actually what makes it a solution at all.

00:34:55.800 All real solutions exist outside of the current ability of politicians to enact them.

00:35:02.360 But I don't know.

00:35:03.400 I wonder, as a notorious democracy disrespecter,

00:35:09.320 I think that that is a real problem,

00:35:12.260 that you kind of can't solve this issue

00:35:14.600 with a media that is manipulating people in the way you're talking about

00:35:18.560 and an open border mechanism

00:35:20.080 along with birthright citizenship and everything else

00:35:22.500 that basically guarantees generational victories to the left

00:35:25.980 as long as they can keep the border open long enough.

00:35:28.740 I think that does create a problem.

00:35:30.900 As somebody who seems to be a little more pro that solution

00:35:33.480 and not willing to surrender that ground to people,

00:35:36.520 does that shake your faith

00:35:38.260 that the very mechanism you would need to control this

00:35:41.380 is basically subject to the problem

00:35:43.640 that is ravaging the validity of the voter base?

00:35:50.340 In part, yes.

00:35:52.520 But I'm also,

00:35:54.300 if you had to force me to put a label on myself,

00:35:58.180 which, you know, it's a very pretentious thing to say,

00:36:01.220 oh, I don't do labels.

00:36:02.580 Like every New York intellectual says that.

00:36:04.860 I really don't mean it with any pretension.

00:36:07.740 I probably feel most comfortable with Tocqueville,

00:36:11.100 although even there I have reservations with Tocqueville.

00:36:13.640 In the sense of the basic premise

00:36:15.680 that we're kind of stuck with democracy broadly defined.

00:36:20.740 So I know the founders drew a distinction

00:36:22.540 between a republic and a democracy.

00:36:25.320 It has a lot of savage tendencies, as he puts it.

00:36:30.900 Bad predispositions.

00:36:33.480 But I don't really see any alternatives.

00:36:38.160 I don't believe in the...

00:36:42.000 I'm not a Nietzschean.

00:36:43.580 I don't believe in the new aristocratic age

00:36:46.540 and reintroducing rank subordination

00:36:48.860 and inequality of man.

00:36:51.520 I think it's not possible.

00:36:53.040 I also don't think it's desirable.

00:36:55.100 So I'm of the view that we're kind of stuck with...

00:36:59.760 Democracy defined broadly as the idea

00:37:02.480 that, you know, the people are equal

00:37:03.980 and they should vote.

00:37:05.840 And then we need to find mechanisms

00:37:08.520 like to tame the savage passions of democracy.

00:37:13.000 And yeah, look, I don't...

00:37:17.120 I mean, it doesn't seem to me beyond the pale

00:37:21.860 to maybe have a progressive,

00:37:26.520 not towards the left,

00:37:29.040 but step-by-step radicalization of the electorate

00:37:32.220 that leads to the election of people

00:37:36.020 who decide to govern more aggressively.

00:37:39.300 I think it's harder to see at the national level,

00:37:41.720 but at the state level in America,

00:37:44.040 there's a lot more that could be done

00:37:46.960 that has not been done.

00:37:48.760 You know, DeSantis, I think,

00:37:49.960 gives us a little glimpse into what is possible.

00:37:53.580 And even there,

00:37:54.300 I don't think he's done anything radical,

00:37:57.560 but in the best sense of the term.

00:37:59.840 So, I don't know,

00:38:01.060 maybe to contradict what I just said,

00:38:02.880 maybe if the right were to radicalize

00:38:05.860 in the best sense of the term

00:38:07.320 and wake up a little bit,

00:38:12.900 I mean, you know,

00:38:14.100 we could start by weakening the media,

00:38:16.320 changing the way we do libel laws,

00:38:17.980 making it easier to sue the press.

00:38:21.040 I mean, Trump did a great job

00:38:22.340 of humiliating the media.

00:38:24.240 You know, one,

00:38:24.960 this is not a solution to the problem,

00:38:26.640 but it's a small thing.

00:38:28.000 Why the hell do we allow journalists

00:38:29.800 to host the presidential debates?

00:38:32.740 Why are we teaching American citizens

00:38:34.800 that the press stands above the presidency,

00:38:37.820 saying, you speak, now you keep quiet?

00:38:40.620 It shouldn't be journalists.

00:38:42.540 I don't know, pick whoever you want.

00:38:43.860 Pick a member of Congress,

00:38:44.920 pick a citizen, pick an academic,

00:38:46.960 pick, I don't know.

00:38:48.240 Why should it be journalists?

00:38:50.500 There's a lot more we could do

00:38:52.100 to humiliate them and weaken them.

00:38:55.820 But I don't have a good answer.

00:38:58.320 I mean, I don't know.

00:38:58.840 What do you think is the alternative

00:39:00.440 to democracy in our age?

00:39:03.340 Well, I think ultimately,

00:39:04.620 the problem is one of scale.

00:39:06.120 I think that as long as kind of

00:39:08.000 we have a rule by quantity,

00:39:10.360 then yeah, you will see

00:39:12.100 kind of the democratic impulse

00:39:13.440 be that which justifies

00:39:15.080 additional power

00:39:17.260 to be consolidated under the state.

00:39:19.000 But I don't think it's really sustainable.

00:39:20.840 At least that's my thesis

00:39:22.200 is that I think at some point

00:39:24.580 the amount of social cohesion

00:39:27.300 sacrificed to scale society up

00:39:29.840 necessarily erodes the things

00:39:31.760 that kind of bind it together.

00:39:33.540 Like you said,

00:39:34.160 we can't really continue

00:39:35.180 to operate as economic zones.

00:39:37.480 That only really works

00:39:39.100 because you're running

00:39:39.640 on the fumes of Christendom.

00:39:41.940 And once that's gone,

00:39:43.560 then the kind of idea

00:39:45.180 that you can sustain

00:39:46.840 this mercantile empire

00:39:48.020 across the globe

00:39:49.020 is going to, I think, fade away.

00:39:51.560 And at that point,

00:39:52.200 you'll probably see

00:39:53.120 several different applications

00:39:54.620 of illiberal governments.

00:39:57.660 But, you know,

00:39:58.480 that's all, of course,

00:39:59.920 long distance speculation.

00:40:01.140 It doesn't do anything for us.

00:40:02.440 Yeah, but why is it

00:40:04.980 that what could replace

00:40:06.280 the current governments

00:40:07.600 would be, you know,

00:40:08.940 I mean, liberal governments

00:40:10.800 in the best sense of the term?

00:40:13.220 Meaning, I return to my proposition

00:40:15.980 that agreeing that the current setup

00:40:17.840 is not tenable

00:40:18.700 is the alternative

00:40:21.540 really to get rid of democracy,

00:40:24.300 especially when the people who,

00:40:26.380 the only people who agree with this

00:40:27.840 are the people.

00:40:29.420 Meaning, in a sense,

00:40:30.700 what we have today

00:40:31.900 is not the result

00:40:33.280 of too much democracy,

00:40:35.040 like on the immigration issue.

00:40:37.280 The people were regularly consulted

00:40:39.160 and they said no.

00:40:40.580 So it's in spite of democracy.

00:40:43.860 And would the solution

00:40:45.400 really be to set up a system

00:40:47.040 in which the ordinary citizen

00:40:49.100 doesn't have a voice?

00:40:52.100 That doesn't make sense to me.

00:40:53.800 I mean, I,

00:40:55.320 what I see a lot in the West today

00:40:57.560 is illiberalism

00:40:59.240 and anti-democratic forces.

00:41:03.920 I do not think

00:41:05.880 that we're suffering

00:41:06.780 from an excess

00:41:07.960 of liberalism

00:41:09.500 and of democracy.

00:41:10.960 I suspect I know

00:41:12.020 what you mean by liberalism.

00:41:13.300 You mean the anthropology

00:41:14.380 of liberalism,

00:41:15.480 the idea that individuals

00:41:16.440 have rights

00:41:17.140 and this leads to the erosion

00:41:18.400 of community and family.

00:41:19.680 That's an old critique

00:41:21.540 and I agree that we could,

00:41:23.300 you know,

00:41:23.460 this is where Tocqueville,

00:41:24.460 again, is helpful

00:41:25.160 is that he defends

00:41:26.660 the proposition

00:41:27.340 that people are equal

00:41:28.560 and that the people

00:41:29.180 should have a say

00:41:29.780 in their government,

00:41:30.320 but he doesn't put

00:41:31.880 as much emphasis

00:41:33.240 on the idea

00:41:34.040 that individuals have rights.

00:41:36.000 I think they do,

00:41:37.160 but yeah, rhetorically,

00:41:38.280 it might be good these days

00:41:39.560 to remind people

00:41:40.400 that they have duties.

00:41:42.120 But I don't think duties

00:41:42.960 and rights are mutually incompatible

00:41:44.560 with one another.

00:41:45.300 Again, I return to the founders

00:41:46.680 who, to me,

00:41:47.800 seem to have no difficulty

00:41:48.980 in squaring the circle

00:41:50.700 of saying that people

00:41:51.520 have rights and duties.

00:41:53.500 And I don't see why

00:41:54.540 I would need to change.

00:41:56.280 But anyways,

00:41:56.560 look, these are kind

00:41:58.140 of high order

00:41:59.280 academic debates.

00:42:01.120 For all practical purposes,

00:42:02.900 if there is a future

00:42:04.680 for Western countries,

00:42:06.620 it will come,

00:42:07.740 it seems to me,

00:42:08.500 from giving a voice

00:42:11.360 to those

00:42:12.560 who have been silenced.

00:42:14.940 I.e., you know,

00:42:16.540 in the case of America,

00:42:17.800 the people who cling

00:42:18.620 to their guns

00:42:19.160 and their religion.

00:42:19.900 I mean,

00:42:20.080 I actually quite like

00:42:21.360 Obama's formulation

00:42:22.880 in this regard.

00:42:23.840 It is quite helpful.

00:42:24.740 not in saying

00:42:28.100 democracy is the bad thing,

00:42:30.040 you should never have to vote,

00:42:31.080 it's more,

00:42:31.760 and they don't listen to you.

00:42:34.200 Your vote is nullified.

00:42:35.960 Like, look,

00:42:36.340 I think we agree

00:42:37.400 that if we had,

00:42:39.080 on many issues,

00:42:40.940 a more level playing field

00:42:42.600 with less oligarchic,

00:42:45.960 illiberal tendencies,

00:42:47.340 media concentration,

00:42:48.960 the results would be better.

00:42:50.380 Yeah,

00:42:53.380 I think the,

00:42:54.780 you know,

00:42:55.200 the mechanism

00:42:55.960 that is always used

00:42:57.220 to displace

00:42:58.100 kind of a,

00:42:59.640 an aristocracy

00:43:01.700 or an oligarchy

00:43:02.960 is the high and low

00:43:04.540 versus middle mechanism.

00:43:06.400 It is something

00:43:07.640 from the top.

00:43:08.520 It is a,

00:43:09.080 you know,

00:43:09.280 some new sovereign

00:43:10.800 motivating the people,

00:43:12.620 bringing them to,

00:43:13.340 to kind of break down

00:43:14.280 those that are currently

00:43:15.240 enfranchised in the system.

00:43:16.620 This is the classic way

00:43:17.480 this is done.

00:43:18.000 You could do that

00:43:19.540 through a democratic,

00:43:20.300 you know,

00:43:21.260 roll call.

00:43:22.300 You can do this

00:43:23.160 through the way

00:43:23.820 it's been done

00:43:24.480 in many,

00:43:25.120 many other situations,

00:43:26.160 which is simply the,

00:43:27.920 you know,

00:43:28.200 the new sovereign

00:43:29.220 mobilizing the people

00:43:30.280 against those

00:43:30.900 that hold

00:43:31.440 the current system in power.

00:43:33.220 I'm not sure

00:43:33.900 that democracy

00:43:34.700 is the necessary,

00:43:37.000 I'm not sure

00:43:37.760 if many,

00:43:39.040 many,

00:43:39.560 many a sovereign

00:43:40.380 has operated

00:43:41.680 with a popular mandate

00:43:42.660 without a democratic mechanism

00:43:44.420 in order to displace

00:43:45.860 an oppressive oligarchy.

00:43:47.640 That's not a new phenomenon

00:43:49.700 to,

00:43:50.220 I think,

00:43:50.500 the democratic era.

00:43:52.180 Well,

00:43:52.340 look,

00:43:52.640 then that might be

00:43:53.680 a,

00:43:54.040 you know,

00:43:54.680 a cas de force majeure,

00:43:55.900 like an extreme mechanism

00:43:57.260 when the order breaks down.

00:43:59.100 But if you think of,

00:44:00.660 say the current regime

00:44:01.520 is unsustainable,

00:44:03.300 say it breaks down eventually

00:44:05.080 as all things

00:44:05.960 that are unsustainable do,

00:44:07.060 the question becomes

00:44:08.000 on what basis

00:44:09.980 do you want to rebuild?

00:44:11.880 Do you want to rebuild

00:44:13.400 on the idea

00:44:14.260 that

00:44:15.280 there are,

00:44:17.420 there is a natural

00:44:18.700 born aristocratic class

00:44:20.840 that through their blood

00:44:22.080 and that is tied

00:44:22.880 to the land

00:44:23.520 and has titles,

00:44:25.520 inherits the right

00:44:26.460 to rule everyone else

00:44:27.680 against their consent?

00:44:29.600 There is something

00:44:30.660 to be said

00:44:31.300 on behalf of aristocracy.

00:44:32.680 I mean,

00:44:33.040 Tocqueville is actually

00:44:34.080 ultimately quite sympathetic

00:44:37.180 to the Ancien Regime.

00:44:39.080 When you read

00:44:39.700 Democracy in America,

00:44:40.800 he does not have,

00:44:43.480 he's,

00:44:44.280 he criticizes it,

00:44:46.160 but it's not scathing criticism.

00:44:49.060 If anything,

00:44:49.960 you get the sense

00:44:50.700 that I think he thinks

00:44:51.640 it was produced

00:44:53.200 more genuine human greatness

00:44:55.760 than a democratic age.

00:44:58.300 But anyways,

00:44:59.140 he thinks that we can't

00:45:00.140 go back to it

00:45:00.700 and it's finished.

00:45:01.260 I would say,

00:45:02.140 would you not need

00:45:03.180 to rebuild

00:45:03.880 on the broad idea

00:45:05.140 that the people

00:45:06.460 have a say

00:45:07.080 in their government,

00:45:07.720 that there is

00:45:09.380 no division,

00:45:11.320 permanent division

00:45:12.060 between rulers

00:45:12.800 and ruled,

00:45:13.920 that your lot

00:45:16.440 in life

00:45:16.980 is determined

00:45:17.720 at birth?

00:45:20.620 I don't see

00:45:21.700 how these ideas

00:45:22.700 could take hold

00:45:23.740 in the American soil,

00:45:25.160 even if you envisage

00:45:26.360 kind of a scenario

00:45:27.480 of things breaking down,

00:45:28.860 the country breaking up.

00:45:30.500 It seems to me

00:45:31.660 we really have no choice

00:45:32.900 but to rebuild on

00:45:33.980 democracy

00:45:35.120 in the broadest possible.

00:45:36.600 I'm using it

00:45:37.100 in the way

00:45:37.400 that Tocqueville

00:45:37.940 understands it.

00:45:38.660 Basically the idea

00:45:39.580 that there is no

00:45:41.500 fundamental division

00:45:43.360 of rank

00:45:44.520 between human beings.

00:45:46.860 I don't see

00:45:48.100 how you get around

00:45:48.900 that in America.

00:45:49.900 I think you can get

00:45:50.760 around that in Russia

00:45:51.700 and in China

00:45:52.460 without great difficulty.

00:45:54.580 But in America,

00:45:56.260 I don't see

00:45:57.460 a scenario

00:45:59.180 around that.

00:46:00.700 It's too much

00:46:01.600 in our world.

00:46:02.820 I guess I just think

00:46:03.640 of Rome,

00:46:04.460 you know,

00:46:05.260 did Octavian,

00:46:06.860 declare himself

00:46:08.480 emperor?

00:46:09.580 Well, no,

00:46:10.120 he's the first among

00:46:11.000 equal.

00:46:11.920 He's the first citizen,

00:46:12.720 right?

00:46:13.580 And, you know,

00:46:14.140 does he abolish

00:46:14.960 the Senate?

00:46:15.520 No, it's around.

00:46:16.500 You know,

00:46:16.860 are all democratic

00:46:18.740 elements vacated?

00:46:20.240 Well, kind of,

00:46:21.340 slowly over time,

00:46:22.540 but, you know,

00:46:23.320 people slowly

00:46:23.980 get used to this idea.

00:46:25.460 I think you're right

00:46:26.180 that you're not

00:46:27.100 going to get,

00:46:27.540 you know,

00:46:28.020 the restoration

00:46:28.580 of the Stuarts

00:46:29.440 or something.

00:46:29.920 Like, that's not

00:46:30.760 what's going to,

00:46:31.460 you know,

00:46:31.680 happen in the United States.

00:46:33.000 But I don't think

00:46:34.440 it's anywhere

00:46:35.020 outside of

00:46:36.240 historical examples

00:46:37.280 to see a people

00:46:38.140 who, you know,

00:46:39.600 bound themselves

00:46:40.300 under the idea

00:46:40.920 of republican government

00:46:42.080 shift, you know,

00:46:42.940 shift from, you know,

00:46:44.200 from having a king

00:46:45.620 to being republicans

00:46:47.000 to having an emperor.

00:46:48.120 You know,

00:46:48.380 this is not a new phenomenon.

00:46:50.840 So you're absolutely

00:46:51.580 right about that.

00:46:52.620 But, again,

00:46:53.640 I return to Tocqueville.

00:46:56.420 He would say

00:46:57.440 these,

00:46:59.000 in the ancient world,

00:47:00.420 they didn't really,

00:47:01.080 these republics

00:47:01.880 were actually aristocracies.

00:47:04.360 He was,

00:47:05.420 he says,

00:47:05.960 Athens was not

00:47:07.460 a democracy.

00:47:09.420 The number of people

00:47:10.540 who were actual citizens

00:47:11.580 was like 20,000.

00:47:12.900 There were 350,000

00:47:14.200 medics or foreigners

00:47:15.060 or slaves.

00:47:16.740 America's different.

00:47:18.900 It is

00:47:19.860 in the DNA

00:47:20.980 of America

00:47:21.740 to believe

00:47:23.260 in

00:47:23.720 like

00:47:25.560 your lot

00:47:26.500 in life

00:47:27.340 is not fixed

00:47:28.340 at birth.

00:47:29.820 That,

00:47:30.320 I mean,

00:47:32.320 what it would take

00:47:33.480 to change that.

00:47:35.180 So to me,

00:47:35.600 I would say

00:47:35.920 the Roman analogies

00:47:37.020 are not perfect

00:47:37.780 because they never

00:47:38.500 really were democratic.

00:47:40.080 Whereas we have been

00:47:41.440 since the get-go,

00:47:42.860 with the big exception,

00:47:43.940 of course,

00:47:44.260 in the South

00:47:44.740 and the question of slavery.

00:47:46.180 That goes without saying.

00:47:48.300 I,

00:47:49.700 look,

00:47:50.200 we're speculating here.

00:47:51.580 You know,

00:47:51.780 we're entering the realm

00:47:52.720 of what would happen

00:47:53.620 if the regime collapses.

00:47:55.840 All the usual

00:47:56.880 disclaimers apply.

00:47:58.320 I will maybe say this

00:47:59.720 since we can't really

00:48:00.460 resolve this.

00:48:01.800 I don't see it

00:48:03.220 happening anytime soon

00:48:04.680 and I am opposed

00:48:05.740 to accelerationism.

00:48:09.240 I don't think

00:48:10.920 the job

00:48:11.480 of the right

00:48:12.100 is to hasten

00:48:13.020 the collapse

00:48:13.520 of America

00:48:14.100 because what comes

00:48:15.680 afterwards

00:48:16.180 could be much worse

00:48:17.160 and in all likelihood

00:48:18.040 would be.

00:48:19.320 I think the job

00:48:20.120 is to slow down

00:48:21.400 the collapse

00:48:22.680 as much as possible

00:48:23.820 and this is why

00:48:25.600 for all of the limitations

00:48:26.860 of, you know,

00:48:28.140 electoral politics

00:48:28.920 at the national level,

00:48:30.180 it still matters

00:48:31.400 who's in place.

00:48:33.540 I just think

00:48:34.280 it's hard to believe

00:48:35.380 that, you know,

00:48:36.300 an election,

00:48:37.180 like if our guys win,

00:48:38.960 wins an election,

00:48:39.840 that everything's

00:48:40.620 going to be fine.

00:48:41.160 Look, if some people

00:48:43.320 need to believe this

00:48:44.180 to go vote

00:48:44.800 and wait in line,

00:48:45.680 good for them.

00:48:46.200 I have a hard time

00:48:47.200 seeing how you could

00:48:47.860 still believe this

00:48:48.560 at this point

00:48:49.140 that, you know,

00:48:50.360 if we just elect

00:48:51.000 our guy in November,

00:48:51.940 all will be well.

00:48:54.260 So I would say

00:48:55.740 that it would not

00:48:56.720 be prudent

00:48:57.320 to think that

00:48:58.520 America is finished

00:48:59.640 and our job

00:49:00.680 is to hasten

00:49:01.280 the collapse.

00:49:03.060 There's a lot

00:49:03.720 of life left

00:49:04.300 in America

00:49:04.740 and, you know,

00:49:05.080 one place you see it

00:49:06.160 is it still seems

00:49:07.180 to be the preferred

00:49:07.980 destination of choice

00:49:09.160 for everyone in the world.

00:49:11.160 That poses

00:49:12.620 all sorts of problems

00:49:13.640 for us,

00:49:14.060 but I don't think

00:49:14.680 everyone would be

00:49:15.420 coming here

00:49:15.940 if it were

00:49:16.480 the hellhole

00:49:17.600 that some people

00:49:18.380 on the online right

00:49:19.440 describe it to be.

00:49:21.720 People, you know,

00:49:22.720 in East Germany

00:49:23.340 had to be prevented

00:49:24.320 from fleeing.

00:49:26.400 In America,

00:49:27.580 ideally,

00:49:28.300 we would want

00:49:28.900 to prevent them

00:49:29.440 from entering.

00:49:30.320 That's a different

00:49:31.100 problem that

00:49:32.400 reveals a difference

00:49:33.600 with the nature

00:49:34.120 of the regime.

00:49:35.960 Sure.

00:49:36.180 I think

00:49:36.740 the performance

00:49:39.740 often of

00:49:40.920 the online right

00:49:42.080 of which

00:49:42.560 I'm most definitely

00:49:43.840 a part of,

00:49:44.360 I suppose,

00:49:45.220 is also one

00:49:46.840 of anchoring.

00:49:47.960 People need to remember

00:49:48.840 that when you have

00:49:50.020 an integrative dialectic,

00:49:51.800 the starting points

00:49:53.080 determine the place

00:49:54.560 in which you arrive.

00:49:55.900 And so

00:49:56.380 the main problem

00:49:57.760 for the conservative

00:49:58.620 movement

00:49:59.100 has been

00:50:00.100 the fact

00:50:01.140 that it has been

00:50:02.060 so deeply invested

00:50:03.220 in the idea

00:50:03.640 that we are

00:50:04.140 just one election

00:50:05.220 away from victory.

00:50:06.860 And so

00:50:08.100 the online right

00:50:09.300 is certainly

00:50:10.580 going over

00:50:11.520 the top

00:50:12.780 when it

00:50:13.360 tries to explain

00:50:14.420 kind of

00:50:15.240 how late

00:50:16.820 the hour is

00:50:17.660 to be sure.

00:50:18.900 But that

00:50:19.460 to me

00:50:20.000 seems necessary

00:50:20.960 to counterbalance

00:50:21.980 overcorrect

00:50:22.800 the conservative

00:50:23.200 movement

00:50:23.440 that has been

00:50:23.860 well under

00:50:24.320 the curve

00:50:24.660 for a very

00:50:25.060 long time.

00:50:25.920 Yeah.

00:50:26.340 Oran,

00:50:26.680 I'll say this.

00:50:27.240 Your point

00:50:27.660 is very well

00:50:28.260 taken.

00:50:29.120 I am

00:50:29.800 quite,

00:50:31.100 I mean,

00:50:31.360 I'd say I'm

00:50:31.820 generally sympathetic

00:50:32.880 to the online

00:50:33.620 right.

00:50:34.920 And I think

00:50:35.780 it has done

00:50:36.300 more good

00:50:36.980 than harm.

00:50:38.780 And that

00:50:39.500 if anything

00:50:40.100 its existence

00:50:41.160 is a testimony

00:50:43.060 to how stale

00:50:45.260 and lame

00:50:45.960 the mainstream

00:50:46.520 right had

00:50:47.100 become

00:50:47.820 that,

00:50:49.120 you know,

00:50:49.600 why did you

00:50:51.120 need

00:50:51.660 anonymous dudes

00:50:53.680 online to talk

00:50:54.780 about masculinity?

00:50:56.660 Why couldn't

00:50:57.500 that have been

00:50:58.060 a topic

00:50:58.560 that was

00:50:59.000 discussed

00:50:59.440 at the

00:50:59.780 Heritage

00:51:00.040 Foundation

00:51:00.620 or the

00:51:01.960 Hoover

00:51:02.200 Institute?

00:51:02.880 Like,

00:51:03.480 this should

00:51:03.840 not be

00:51:04.300 the exclusive

00:51:05.040 prerogative

00:51:05.800 of the

00:51:06.940 online

00:51:07.240 right.

00:51:07.540 It should

00:51:07.760 be a

00:51:08.040 perfectly

00:51:08.320 mainstream

00:51:08.860 topic,

00:51:09.700 you know,

00:51:10.960 several decades

00:51:11.880 into second

00:51:12.540 wave feminism,

00:51:13.420 and yet it

00:51:13.840 wasn't.

00:51:15.340 So,

00:51:15.840 I give them

00:51:16.960 credit for

00:51:17.700 introducing

00:51:18.500 these subjects.

00:51:19.720 I think that

00:51:20.280 the way they

00:51:20.920 frame them

00:51:21.300 sometimes is

00:51:21.880 not helpful,

00:51:23.300 but I would

00:51:24.980 say then to

00:51:25.560 the mainstream

00:51:26.100 right is then

00:51:26.740 why don't

00:51:27.540 you do a

00:51:27.940 better job?

00:51:29.100 Like,

00:51:29.320 if I have

00:51:29.940 to choose

00:51:30.480 between

00:51:31.020 deafening

00:51:32.020 silence

00:51:32.760 on the

00:51:33.180 gynecocracy

00:51:33.940 and the

00:51:36.160 pathologization

00:51:38.100 of masculinity

00:51:39.140 or a

00:51:41.660 more savage,

00:51:43.580 barbaric

00:51:44.140 conception of

00:51:45.000 masculinity

00:51:45.600 that reduces

00:51:46.400 it to

00:51:46.880 push-ups

00:51:48.000 and picking

00:51:48.400 up chicks,

00:51:49.860 if these

00:51:50.300 are really

00:51:50.660 the two

00:51:51.020 options,

00:51:51.500 then I

00:51:52.540 think the

00:51:52.920 latter is

00:51:53.520 better,

00:51:54.160 even though I

00:51:54.720 have reservations

00:51:55.420 about it and

00:51:56.120 that there's

00:51:56.440 more to

00:51:56.800 masculinity than

00:51:57.600 these things.

00:51:58.140 But then I

00:51:59.080 would say,

00:51:59.600 and I

00:52:00.040 think at

00:52:02.360 its best,

00:52:02.980 the online

00:52:03.460 right has

00:52:04.180 jolted the

00:52:05.040 mainstream

00:52:05.400 right out

00:52:06.060 of some

00:52:06.380 of its

00:52:06.640 platitudes.

00:52:07.440 And look,

00:52:08.060 everything is

00:52:08.720 in the

00:52:09.000 process of

00:52:09.660 changing right

00:52:10.300 now.

00:52:10.580 I just

00:52:10.900 find that

00:52:11.400 the one

00:52:11.980 kind of

00:52:12.420 friendly

00:52:13.120 criticism I

00:52:13.980 would have

00:52:14.420 is it's

00:52:16.320 one thing to

00:52:17.040 hide under

00:52:17.760 the cover of

00:52:18.520 anonymity on

00:52:19.340 Twitter.

00:52:20.880 You have a

00:52:21.540 certain role to

00:52:22.140 play there and

00:52:22.580 you can say

00:52:22.920 certain things.

00:52:23.560 You should

00:52:23.860 understand that

00:52:24.480 other people

00:52:24.960 have jobs

00:52:25.640 and they

00:52:26.640 can't just,

00:52:27.240 you know,

00:52:27.380 Michael Anton,

00:52:28.260 my friend and

00:52:28.880 colleagues love

00:52:29.520 to say like

00:52:30.080 they get upset

00:52:30.880 if you're not

00:52:32.020 dousing yourself

00:52:32.900 in gasoline

00:52:33.580 and setting

00:52:34.060 yourself on

00:52:34.620 fire by

00:52:35.540 saying the

00:52:35.880 most outrageous

00:52:36.560 things in the

00:52:37.200 public square.

00:52:37.780 It's like,

00:52:37.980 come on,

00:52:38.320 be a little

00:52:38.700 bit smarter.

00:52:39.220 At the end

00:52:40.460 of the day,

00:52:41.560 I think we

00:52:42.360 should be

00:52:42.740 working together

00:52:43.580 because we

00:52:44.140 have a common

00:52:44.660 enemy.

00:52:46.200 And,

00:52:46.380 you know,

00:52:46.900 if we were

00:52:47.580 to topple

00:52:48.460 neoliberal

00:52:51.660 managerial woke

00:52:52.800 elite,

00:52:53.520 I'd love to

00:52:54.480 have the

00:52:54.880 debate of

00:52:55.540 should we

00:52:55.960 have

00:52:56.180 integralism,

00:52:58.200 you know,

00:52:58.460 back with

00:52:58.900 his pirates,

00:53:00.440 illiberal

00:53:00.840 democracy.

00:53:01.700 Let's then

00:53:02.320 have this

00:53:02.860 debate on

00:53:03.920 the right

00:53:04.320 as to what

00:53:04.840 we should

00:53:05.220 do.

00:53:06.140 But I

00:53:07.840 think we

00:53:08.380 should

00:53:08.580 concentrate

00:53:09.120 more of

00:53:10.000 our fire

00:53:10.460 not on

00:53:10.980 one another.

00:53:11.700 But,

00:53:11.980 yeah,

00:53:12.520 like I

00:53:14.380 said,

00:53:14.620 I think

00:53:14.900 the online

00:53:15.380 right has

00:53:15.840 done more

00:53:16.320 good than

00:53:16.680 harm.

00:53:17.560 Yeah.

00:53:18.000 Win first,

00:53:18.580 argue later

00:53:19.140 is a pretty

00:53:20.000 good shortcut.

00:53:22.280 So I want

00:53:22.940 to ask you

00:53:23.240 one more

00:53:23.540 thing before

00:53:24.560 we got a

00:53:24.980 few questions

00:53:25.500 from the

00:53:25.960 audience if

00:53:26.540 you would

00:53:27.000 like to

00:53:27.280 take them.

00:53:27.820 But one

00:53:28.620 more question

00:53:29.640 for me before

00:53:30.300 we do that.

00:53:31.300 I know one

00:53:31.860 of your

00:53:32.060 main focuses

00:53:33.720 of research

00:53:34.820 is identity

00:53:37.640 politics.

00:53:38.980 And one

00:53:40.280 of the

00:53:40.480 problems I

00:53:40.900 think we're

00:53:41.280 obviously

00:53:41.780 running into

00:53:42.580 in this

00:53:43.040 scenario is

00:53:43.740 again to

00:53:44.400 reference that

00:53:44.880 high and

00:53:45.260 low versus

00:53:45.820 middle

00:53:46.220 mechanism.

00:53:47.720 A large

00:53:48.180 amount of

00:53:48.500 the ruling

00:53:49.220 elite is

00:53:49.840 bringing in a

00:53:50.560 large amount

00:53:51.080 of mass

00:53:51.640 immigrants in

00:53:52.580 the attempt

00:53:53.580 to basically

00:53:54.120 squeeze out

00:53:54.640 the middle,

00:53:55.060 destroy the

00:53:55.520 middle class,

00:53:56.700 destroy the

00:53:57.100 kulaks,

00:53:57.680 get rid of

00:53:58.040 anybody who

00:53:58.500 can operate

00:53:59.100 outside of

00:53:59.860 the regime

00:54:00.320 systems,

00:54:01.800 expropriate their

00:54:02.920 wealth and

00:54:03.480 distribute it to

00:54:04.240 their client

00:54:04.820 classes.

00:54:05.720 This is something

00:54:06.260 that we see

00:54:06.900 over and over

00:54:07.640 and over again

00:54:08.280 across several

00:54:09.360 of the countries

00:54:09.820 that we've

00:54:10.200 discussed.

00:54:11.660 Since we're

00:54:12.320 looking at

00:54:13.100 democracies,

00:54:14.100 do you think,

00:54:15.180 as somebody

00:54:15.600 who's looked

00:54:16.420 into this

00:54:16.780 quite a bit,

00:54:17.260 do you

00:54:17.520 think that

00:54:17.900 ultimately

00:54:18.420 you can

00:54:18.960 operate

00:54:19.700 multi-ethnic

00:54:21.460 societies with

00:54:22.400 a democratic

00:54:22.860 mechanism and

00:54:23.580 not have it

00:54:24.300 turn into

00:54:25.100 this racial

00:54:26.800 spoils system,

00:54:27.860 this ability

00:54:28.340 to coordinate

00:54:28.880 voting blocks

00:54:29.800 of different

00:54:30.340 ethnicities?

00:54:36.180 I mean,

00:54:37.240 as a general

00:54:38.940 rule of thumb,

00:54:40.100 no.

00:54:41.800 I mean,

00:54:42.440 you know,

00:54:42.900 all the

00:54:43.660 examples that

00:54:44.540 rush to my

00:54:45.220 mind,

00:54:45.660 where I'm

00:54:47.040 from,

00:54:47.420 Canada.

00:54:48.580 Look at

00:54:48.980 Quebec.

00:54:50.340 Canada's

00:54:50.900 been not

00:54:52.120 working from

00:54:52.920 the start

00:54:53.440 or has had

00:54:54.020 its national

00:54:54.760 politics

00:54:55.360 completely

00:54:56.000 distorted

00:54:56.540 because of

00:54:57.860 the presence

00:54:58.300 of the

00:54:58.620 French.

00:54:59.720 Look at

00:55:00.260 the Spaniards

00:55:01.020 with the

00:55:01.460 Basque and

00:55:02.120 Catalan

00:55:02.660 movements.

00:55:05.220 Look at,

00:55:06.020 I mean,

00:55:06.280 Rwanda is a

00:55:07.160 fantastic

00:55:07.620 example.

00:55:09.500 They're all

00:55:10.260 Bantu

00:55:10.600 Africans,

00:55:11.240 they speak

00:55:11.660 the same

00:55:12.060 language,

00:55:12.580 share the

00:55:12.920 same

00:55:13.240 religion,

00:55:14.620 and a

00:55:15.940 horrendous

00:55:16.480 genocide

00:55:16.940 occurred

00:55:17.460 because of

00:55:18.260 differences

00:55:19.220 in

00:55:19.620 ethnicities.

00:55:22.120 Look at

00:55:22.940 Lebanon,

00:55:23.660 look at

00:55:24.000 Belgium.

00:55:26.280 I mean,

00:55:26.540 where does

00:55:27.000 it work?

00:55:27.620 I guess

00:55:27.960 Switzerland

00:55:28.740 seems to

00:55:29.480 work,

00:55:30.820 but Switzerland

00:55:31.760 is a really

00:55:32.340 special case,

00:55:33.300 right?

00:55:33.480 They have the

00:55:33.960 mountains that

00:55:34.680 protect them

00:55:35.220 from outside

00:55:35.700 enemies,

00:55:36.360 it is heavily

00:55:37.000 decentralized,

00:55:38.300 federalized,

00:55:39.360 they don't

00:55:40.940 fight wars

00:55:41.720 or haven't

00:55:42.700 in a long

00:55:43.100 time.

00:55:44.360 So I'm

00:55:46.700 highly,

00:55:47.400 highly skeptical

00:55:48.160 of it,

00:55:48.700 that pretty

00:55:49.200 much every

00:55:50.820 country you

00:55:51.420 look at,

00:55:51.960 when there

00:55:52.280 is diversity

00:55:53.360 of language,

00:55:55.240 religion,

00:55:56.480 skin color,

00:55:57.720 culture,

00:55:58.560 it's a

00:55:59.260 source of

00:55:59.680 conflict.

00:56:03.960 So,

00:56:04.820 you know,

00:56:05.180 diversity is

00:56:05.960 not a

00:56:06.480 strength.

00:56:06.840 I think

00:56:07.320 it's a

00:56:08.400 problem to

00:56:09.920 be managed.

00:56:11.820 I think

00:56:12.520 in some

00:56:13.020 cases,

00:56:14.400 it can be

00:56:15.040 managed

00:56:15.600 in a way

00:56:18.880 that the

00:56:19.220 country

00:56:19.480 functions,

00:56:21.500 but that

00:56:22.580 requires,

00:56:24.120 like,

00:56:24.360 Israel is an

00:56:24.980 interesting

00:56:25.340 example,

00:56:26.920 right?

00:56:28.080 So they

00:56:28.820 have two

00:56:29.360 main sources

00:56:30.140 of diversity,

00:56:31.080 about 20%

00:56:32.000 of the

00:56:32.280 population

00:56:32.820 that are

00:56:33.300 Arab-Israeli

00:56:34.340 citizens,

00:56:34.780 so not

00:56:35.100 people living

00:56:35.640 in Gaza

00:56:36.080 or Judea

00:56:36.540 or Samaria,

00:56:37.720 and then

00:56:38.340 they have

00:56:38.820 a large

00:56:39.380 portion of

00:56:40.060 the very

00:56:40.580 ultra-Orthodox

00:56:41.700 Haredi Jews

00:56:42.540 who are

00:56:43.540 Israeli citizens

00:56:44.480 but don't

00:56:45.060 serve in the

00:56:45.500 military,

00:56:46.400 you know,

00:56:46.580 many of them

00:56:47.020 speak Yiddish

00:56:47.640 together,

00:56:48.140 not Hebrew,

00:56:48.760 like,

00:56:48.940 they don't

00:56:49.180 think that

00:56:49.640 a Jewish

00:56:50.140 state should

00:56:50.620 exist

00:56:51.000 absent the

00:56:51.600 Messiah.

00:56:53.340 And yet

00:56:53.700 the country

00:56:54.240 kind of

00:56:54.740 functions

00:56:55.220 because the

00:56:55.860 majority

00:56:56.300 has the

00:56:56.980 courage of

00:56:57.640 its convictions,

00:56:59.280 has the

00:56:59.760 courage to

00:57:00.400 say,

00:57:00.860 this is

00:57:01.220 Israel,

00:57:01.720 it's a

00:57:02.100 secular

00:57:02.540 Jewish

00:57:03.100 democracy,

00:57:04.280 and we're

00:57:05.080 going to

00:57:05.280 keep it

00:57:05.620 this way.

00:57:06.540 the problem

00:57:10.120 in most,

00:57:10.920 in all other

00:57:11.440 Western countries

00:57:12.220 is that the

00:57:12.960 people running

00:57:13.980 the country,

00:57:14.640 the majorities,

00:57:15.360 have no

00:57:15.880 self-confidence.

00:57:17.220 They have

00:57:17.960 nagging feelings

00:57:18.960 of guilt,

00:57:19.580 they have a

00:57:20.000 bad democratic

00:57:20.720 conscience,

00:57:21.460 they have

00:57:21.920 trauma over

00:57:22.720 the Holocaust,

00:57:23.220 lost.

00:57:24.480 So, you

00:57:25.980 could have

00:57:26.600 some,

00:57:27.440 you know,

00:57:27.860 we did,

00:57:28.640 you know,

00:57:28.940 we did a

00:57:29.500 pretty amazing

00:57:30.360 job of

00:57:32.020 assimilating the

00:57:33.080 Ellis Island

00:57:33.760 wave.

00:57:34.600 I don't want

00:57:35.340 to romanticize

00:57:36.320 it because it

00:57:36.880 changed America.

00:57:38.300 It seems to

00:57:39.260 me that the

00:57:39.760 New Deal

00:57:40.220 would not

00:57:40.740 have passed

00:57:41.400 had it not

00:57:41.960 been for the

00:57:42.380 Ellis Island

00:57:42.860 wave.

00:57:43.120 I love

00:57:44.900 Italians,

00:57:45.600 but we did

00:57:46.020 not have

00:57:46.400 organized crime

00:57:47.440 before Southern

00:57:49.420 Italians came.

00:57:50.460 But at the

00:57:51.480 end of the

00:57:51.800 day, we

00:57:52.860 made them

00:57:53.360 into Americans.

00:57:54.440 I have yet

00:57:55.200 to meet

00:57:55.740 someone with

00:57:56.320 an Italian

00:57:56.780 last name in

00:57:57.440 America who

00:57:57.960 speaks Italian.

00:57:59.200 Whereas in

00:57:59.760 Montreal, where I'm

00:58:00.540 from, they came

00:58:01.160 at the same

00:58:01.600 time, I've yet

00:58:02.360 to meet a

00:58:02.780 single Italian

00:58:03.400 who doesn't

00:58:03.960 speak Italian.

00:58:05.400 Meaning,

00:58:06.500 America's done

00:58:07.320 a pretty good

00:58:08.400 job.

00:58:08.620 Now, admittedly,

00:58:09.380 these were

00:58:09.900 immigrants from

00:58:10.480 Europe, not

00:58:11.720 from Asia,

00:58:12.660 Africa, and

00:58:13.160 South America.

00:58:13.920 It's easier to

00:58:14.820 assimilate them.

00:58:15.560 But I think

00:58:16.900 you can manage

00:58:17.900 some diversity

00:58:19.180 if it's not

00:58:20.580 too much, not

00:58:21.780 too far from

00:58:22.700 where you are,

00:58:23.320 and if you

00:58:23.700 have the real

00:58:24.680 confidence to

00:58:26.540 demand and

00:58:27.740 expect and

00:58:28.700 enforce a

00:58:29.440 hard assimilation.

00:58:31.240 You change

00:58:32.000 your name at

00:58:32.460 Ellis Island, you

00:58:33.100 become one of

00:58:33.740 us.

00:58:34.840 And then it's

00:58:35.660 manageable.

00:58:36.100 Yeah, I

00:58:38.940 guess you

00:58:39.260 have examples

00:58:40.200 like Singapore,

00:58:41.160 but they do

00:58:41.680 it by removing

00:58:42.240 the democratic

00:58:43.340 mechanism.

00:58:44.220 Correct.

00:58:44.780 Yes, obviously,

00:58:45.440 look, without

00:58:45.820 freedom, you

00:58:46.740 can do whatever

00:58:47.180 you want.

00:58:51.020 But, yeah.

00:58:52.960 All right, well,

00:58:53.620 we'll go ahead

00:58:54.640 and move over to

00:58:55.420 the questions of

00:58:55.920 the people.

00:58:56.340 But before we

00:58:56.940 do, David, is

00:58:57.760 there anything

00:58:58.100 where you'd like

00:58:58.720 people to look

00:58:59.420 for your work?

00:59:02.020 I mean, they

00:59:02.420 can Google my

00:59:03.600 name or go on

00:59:04.300 YouTube and see

00:59:05.120 some of my

00:59:05.560 talks and some

00:59:06.080 the stuff I've

00:59:06.500 written, but I

00:59:07.280 have, I am, I'm

00:59:08.280 not on Twitter.

00:59:09.440 I take a look

00:59:10.480 occasionally, but

00:59:11.300 I'm not very

00:59:13.860 online.

00:59:15.280 Well, you gave a

00:59:15.760 great speech at

00:59:16.380 NatCon 4, so

00:59:17.320 people should

00:59:17.920 definitely check

00:59:18.860 that one out if

00:59:19.500 people have not

00:59:20.080 had the chance

00:59:20.640 to do that.

00:59:21.700 Thank you.

00:59:23.980 Let's see here.

00:59:24.840 Thuggo says,

00:59:25.580 the regime is

00:59:26.360 scared to call

00:59:27.060 out the military

00:59:27.720 because the

00:59:28.180 military has a

00:59:29.260 sizable number

00:59:29.920 of native

00:59:30.840 sympathizers.

00:59:32.080 That is

00:59:32.620 something that

00:59:33.020 they've been

00:59:33.320 trying to change

00:59:34.220 over the last

00:59:35.760 decade or so,

00:59:36.740 but yeah, I

00:59:37.420 think that's a

00:59:38.420 good point, that

00:59:38.980 that's still

00:59:39.500 something that

00:59:40.020 they're scared.

00:59:40.500 They don't want

00:59:41.180 to call on that

00:59:41.760 power because

00:59:42.360 they're not sure

00:59:42.920 exactly where

00:59:43.580 that falls.

00:59:45.280 But to your

00:59:45.660 point, they

00:59:46.160 have been

00:59:46.680 purging.

00:59:47.460 I don't know if

00:59:48.100 you know Will

00:59:48.660 Thibault, who's

00:59:49.920 at the Clermont

00:59:50.580 Institute and has

00:59:51.620 been tracking the

00:59:52.820 wokeification of

00:59:53.800 the military.

00:59:54.380 so, but I

00:59:57.700 think for the

00:59:58.480 point of your

00:59:59.220 reader's comment

01:00:00.400 for now stands

01:00:01.380 that if push

01:00:03.620 came to shove

01:00:04.620 right now, I'd

01:00:06.720 like to believe

01:00:07.420 that they

01:00:07.820 wouldn't pull

01:00:08.260 the trigger on

01:00:09.500 patriotic

01:00:10.060 Americans.

01:00:11.880 Yeah, I think

01:00:12.500 that's something

01:00:13.960 that's true now,

01:00:15.040 but not true

01:00:15.840 forever.

01:00:18.400 I've got a

01:00:19.120 number of

01:00:19.500 friends who,

01:00:20.260 you know,

01:00:20.900 either are or

01:00:21.700 were in the

01:00:22.320 military and

01:00:23.660 they all have

01:00:24.140 pretty much the

01:00:24.660 same story that

01:00:25.440 they're drumming

01:00:26.000 out, you know,

01:00:26.640 kind of boys from

01:00:27.680 Appalachia and

01:00:28.400 Texas as fast as

01:00:29.400 possible.

01:00:30.480 Obviously, they've

01:00:31.200 had some recruiting

01:00:31.800 problems, so they

01:00:32.720 rolled a little bit

01:00:33.380 of that back.

01:00:34.360 You know, we're

01:00:34.720 seeing a few more

01:00:35.660 white guys in

01:00:36.400 recruiting commercials

01:00:37.400 these days, but

01:00:39.140 ultimately that still

01:00:40.280 seems to be the

01:00:40.880 trajectory of the

01:00:41.780 force.

01:00:42.100 I mean, we just

01:00:42.500 had the DOD

01:00:43.680 doing a seminar on

01:00:45.580 how pro-life

01:00:46.560 groups are a

01:00:47.240 terrorist threat.

01:00:48.400 So, you know, I

01:00:49.220 would expect that

01:00:50.080 to be the trend.

01:00:52.320 Let's see.

01:00:55.040 Gabby of

01:00:55.800 Lindbergh says,

01:00:56.760 flashing my

01:00:57.440 J card to ask

01:00:58.380 David, how much

01:00:59.360 of this is the

01:01:00.280 quote-unquote

01:01:00.780 Talmudic network,

01:01:02.160 U.S. and

01:01:02.640 Canada, U.S.

01:01:03.680 and France,

01:01:04.120 maybe, Belgium,

01:01:04.860 Sweden, I

01:01:05.780 don't see it.

01:01:08.620 I mean, look, I

01:01:09.420 think the JQ is

01:01:11.340 the ultimate

01:01:12.020 cope.

01:01:13.600 It's basically,

01:01:14.600 why does my

01:01:15.280 country suck?

01:01:17.240 I mean, let me

01:01:17.800 put it very

01:01:18.440 flippantly, like,

01:01:19.660 because Larry

01:01:20.440 David took down

01:01:21.500 America along

01:01:22.280 with Woody

01:01:22.680 Allen, to

01:01:23.480 which I say,

01:01:24.180 if that's

01:01:24.620 true, well,

01:01:25.220 what does it

01:01:25.640 say about your

01:01:26.120 country in the

01:01:26.680 first place?

01:01:27.920 Do you think

01:01:28.180 that Larry David

01:01:28.800 would take down

01:01:29.360 Sparta or Rome?

01:01:31.700 I think it's a

01:01:33.240 tendency on the

01:01:34.160 right to always

01:01:34.960 want to look

01:01:36.700 for a foreign

01:01:37.500 contagion to your

01:01:38.640 problems.

01:01:39.220 Like, there's

01:01:39.500 nothing wrong

01:01:40.020 with America.

01:01:40.940 It's the German

01:01:42.080 philosophy, it's

01:01:42.900 the Jews, it's

01:01:43.960 never our fault.

01:01:45.120 And again, I

01:01:45.900 return to

01:01:46.420 Tocqueville.

01:01:47.860 It's not a

01:01:48.600 Bible.

01:01:49.420 The book has

01:01:49.920 limitations, but

01:01:50.860 he wrote, I

01:01:53.040 think, without a

01:01:53.660 doubt, what

01:01:54.040 remains to this

01:01:54.780 day, the best

01:01:55.380 book ever

01:01:55.800 written about

01:01:56.300 America.

01:01:57.200 It's 674

01:01:58.820 pages long in

01:01:59.620 the English

01:01:59.900 translation.

01:02:01.840 He pretty

01:02:02.880 much anticipates

01:02:05.360 almost everything

01:02:07.180 that's going to

01:02:07.900 happen.

01:02:08.460 I mean, the

01:02:09.220 bad tendencies,

01:02:10.120 he sees them.

01:02:11.760 And there

01:02:12.380 isn't a single

01:02:13.040 reference to the

01:02:13.880 Talmud, to

01:02:14.520 rabbis, or to

01:02:15.400 Jews, anywhere

01:02:16.120 in that book.

01:02:16.700 Meaning, the

01:02:18.940 problem is the

01:02:21.280 bad genetic

01:02:22.540 predispositions of

01:02:23.880 democracy.

01:02:25.320 But again, where

01:02:26.180 I'm with Tocqueville

01:02:27.080 is none of this

01:02:28.380 is faded.

01:02:29.640 I mean, if he

01:02:30.180 thought it was

01:02:30.700 faded, I mean, he

01:02:31.320 would not have

01:02:31.700 written the book

01:02:32.160 and said, I

01:02:32.720 give up, there's

01:02:33.380 no point.

01:02:34.560 So, I think we

01:02:36.400 need to be more

01:02:37.280 honest with

01:02:37.720 ourselves that

01:02:38.320 there is

01:02:38.740 something in the

01:02:39.860 American DNA

01:02:40.800 that tends in a

01:02:43.280 certain direction.

01:02:43.860 I mean, the way

01:02:44.800 Tocqueville puts

01:02:45.420 it is that we

01:02:46.080 love equality

01:02:46.800 more than

01:02:47.260 freedom.

01:02:48.240 The story we

01:02:49.020 tell ourselves as

01:02:49.860 Americans is that

01:02:50.720 this is the land

01:02:51.400 of liberty, and

01:02:52.620 he sees a certain

01:02:53.580 love of freedom

01:02:54.160 in Americans, but

01:02:55.540 he also sees

01:02:56.420 something in the

01:02:57.240 soul, which is

01:02:58.580 if you have to

01:02:59.680 choose between

01:03:00.220 more liberty or

01:03:01.000 more equality, we

01:03:01.900 pick more

01:03:02.300 equality.

01:03:03.020 And in a sense,

01:03:03.560 that's the left,

01:03:04.440 right?

01:03:04.600 That's the whole

01:03:05.220 story of the

01:03:05.960 left, is

01:03:07.280 sacrificing liberty

01:03:08.880 for more equal

01:03:10.140 outcomes, for the

01:03:11.440 leveling tendencies

01:03:12.360 of democracy.

01:03:13.860 And so, it's

01:03:15.140 in our DNA, but

01:03:16.820 I would say

01:03:17.620 it's not

01:03:18.920 fated.

01:03:19.820 It's, for lack

01:03:21.660 of a better

01:03:22.120 term of phrase, a

01:03:23.240 genetic

01:03:23.680 predisposition.

01:03:24.980 It's a tendency

01:03:26.060 that can be

01:03:26.800 reined in, but

01:03:27.980 I think it is

01:03:29.620 a cope to

01:03:30.920 just constantly

01:03:31.760 blame, point

01:03:32.740 the finger at

01:03:33.440 all sorts of

01:03:34.100 foreigners, whether

01:03:34.800 it be some of

01:03:35.440 my friends who

01:03:36.020 want to blame

01:03:36.500 Woodrow Wilson

01:03:37.200 for the influence

01:03:38.480 of German

01:03:38.880 philosophy.

01:03:40.040 To me, that

01:03:40.560 merely begs the

01:03:41.280 question of,

01:03:41.880 well, why did

01:03:42.320 it catch on so

01:03:43.140 easily?

01:03:43.860 Why was the

01:03:44.960 soil receptive

01:03:46.040 to this?

01:03:47.380 I'd leave it at

01:03:48.260 that.

01:03:49.900 So, go back

01:03:50.800 here again, says

01:03:51.680 the old purpose

01:03:52.540 of asylum was

01:03:53.440 giving the safe

01:03:54.160 haven to the

01:03:54.680 enemy of your

01:03:55.220 enemy.

01:03:55.720 Now, Marx is

01:03:56.540 subverted to

01:03:57.140 mean open

01:03:57.900 immigration.

01:03:59.200 Well, I think

01:03:59.820 it's just very

01:04:00.360 clear that

01:04:01.160 asylum law is

01:04:02.300 a hole in

01:04:03.560 any given

01:04:04.300 immigration scheme

01:04:05.260 and it's just

01:04:05.780 the easiest

01:04:06.160 thing to

01:04:06.540 exploit.

01:04:07.400 Every nation

01:04:08.600 outside of the

01:04:09.840 first world has

01:04:10.840 significant problems,

01:04:12.120 things that people

01:04:12.860 in the first

01:04:13.300 world think

01:04:14.160 would be

01:04:14.600 worthy of

01:04:15.280 fleeing for

01:04:16.080 your safety.

01:04:17.100 And so,

01:04:17.320 therefore,

01:04:17.920 basically,

01:04:18.360 everyone is a

01:04:19.000 potential American

01:04:19.880 or Englishman

01:04:20.880 or whatever

01:04:21.520 country they're

01:04:22.960 seeking asylum

01:04:23.760 to because

01:04:24.460 ultimately they

01:04:25.420 all have the

01:04:26.180 same problem,

01:04:26.880 which is their

01:04:27.420 country is not

01:04:28.180 part of the

01:04:28.600 first world.

01:04:31.240 Couldn't have

01:04:31.900 said it better.

01:04:32.400 Let's see.

01:04:34.040 Here we've got

01:04:34.820 a question from

01:04:37.220 Death, very

01:04:37.720 auspicious.

01:04:38.280 He says,

01:04:38.680 how Russia

01:04:39.880 gained control

01:04:40.640 is Putin

01:04:41.760 warned and

01:04:42.340 arrested

01:04:42.680 oligarchs that

01:04:43.860 they were

01:04:44.840 destabilizing

01:04:45.700 Russia.

01:04:46.520 Also,

01:04:46.820 conservatives

01:04:47.160 need to have

01:04:47.840 their own

01:04:48.280 false flags

01:04:49.060 psyops.

01:04:50.720 I wouldn't

01:04:52.560 bet too much

01:04:53.400 on the

01:04:54.000 Republicans being

01:04:54.900 super cagey

01:04:55.920 and laying a

01:04:56.840 bunch of traps

01:04:57.340 for Democrats.

01:04:58.540 I spend most

01:04:58.980 of my time just

01:04:59.560 begging them not

01:05:00.240 to fall for

01:05:00.740 the ones that

01:05:01.280 are very

01:05:01.600 obviously laying

01:05:02.360 on the ground

01:05:02.800 right now.

01:05:05.020 I'd just be

01:05:05.840 happy if we

01:05:06.300 stopped stepping

01:05:06.900 on rakes.

01:05:07.540 I'm not looking

01:05:08.260 for a rake

01:05:08.720 distribution system

01:05:10.220 at this point.

01:05:11.500 But yeah,

01:05:12.200 maybe if we

01:05:12.840 finally gain the

01:05:13.720 ability to have

01:05:14.440 even the smallest

01:05:15.920 amount of media

01:05:16.920 discipline,

01:05:17.760 if the dog

01:05:18.920 isn't chasing

01:05:19.480 every single

01:05:20.040 squirrel,

01:05:20.540 then maybe we'll

01:05:21.100 think about

01:05:21.480 setting those

01:05:21.980 traps.

01:05:24.800 And then

01:05:25.620 Robert

01:05:26.340 Weisfield

01:05:26.860 says,

01:05:27.360 David and

01:05:28.240 me to

01:05:28.740 Europeans,

01:05:29.460 get over

01:05:29.800 World War

01:05:30.220 II,

01:05:30.880 you too

01:05:31.360 can be

01:05:31.740 an ethnostate.

01:05:32.700 Again,

01:05:32.980 please see

01:05:34.280 Israel as

01:05:35.100 a reference.

01:05:37.120 What do you

01:05:37.780 think about

01:05:38.100 that possibility?

01:05:39.500 I mean,

01:05:39.660 you do have

01:05:40.280 a scenario

01:05:40.840 where,

01:05:41.740 like you

01:05:42.040 said,

01:05:42.340 Israel is

01:05:43.040 cohesive

01:05:43.480 because it

01:05:44.800 is allowed

01:05:45.320 to invest

01:05:45.900 in a

01:05:46.220 particular

01:05:46.580 identity.

01:05:48.360 You know,

01:05:48.540 European

01:05:48.860 nations,

01:05:50.540 however people

01:05:51.600 feel about

01:05:52.200 their current

01:05:52.720 consideration,

01:05:54.360 obviously are

01:05:55.220 nations in

01:05:56.220 which European

01:05:56.820 peoples are

01:05:57.560 native.

01:05:58.180 is there

01:05:59.200 any chance

01:05:59.780 that these

01:06:00.160 nations could

01:06:00.800 return to

01:06:01.600 an identity

01:06:02.300 that allows

01:06:02.760 them to

01:06:03.080 bond in

01:06:03.500 the way

01:06:03.760 that Israel

01:06:04.340 does?

01:06:05.660 You know,

01:06:05.980 there are

01:06:06.640 many reasons

01:06:07.300 to hate

01:06:07.840 Hitler.

01:06:09.540 One that

01:06:10.340 maybe doesn't

01:06:11.080 get discussed

01:06:13.400 enough is

01:06:14.120 his legacy.

01:06:15.500 I mean,

01:06:15.720 it is,

01:06:16.300 I think,

01:06:16.500 the ultimate

01:06:16.980 revenge of

01:06:17.880 history that

01:06:18.540 the man who

01:06:19.320 devoted his

01:06:20.480 life to

01:06:21.180 championing the

01:06:22.780 interests of

01:06:23.380 the Aryan

01:06:23.960 race,

01:06:26.000 his curse

01:06:28.080 that he

01:06:28.480 laid on

01:06:29.080 Europe is

01:06:29.820 all these

01:06:31.760 nations

01:06:32.300 flooding

01:06:32.800 themselves

01:06:33.300 with

01:06:33.520 immigrants

01:06:33.880 and being

01:06:34.360 traumatized

01:06:35.080 of defending

01:06:35.740 their ethnic

01:06:37.240 cohesion on

01:06:37.980 the grounds

01:06:38.340 that that's

01:06:38.720 what the

01:06:38.960 Nazis did.

01:06:39.940 It makes

01:06:40.220 it impossible

01:06:40.740 to have

01:06:41.200 any conversation,

01:06:44.000 any sane

01:06:45.240 discussion of

01:06:45.840 these issues

01:06:46.220 because the

01:06:47.560 ghost of

01:06:50.120 Hitler and

01:06:50.740 of the

01:06:51.000 Holocaust

01:06:51.340 looms over

01:06:52.100 everything.

01:06:55.080 So I

01:06:55.920 think we

01:06:56.360 would need

01:06:56.900 to,

01:06:58.180 you know,

01:06:58.380 and one

01:06:59.000 overcorrection

01:06:59.940 to that,

01:07:00.480 what you find

01:07:01.000 among some

01:07:01.460 on the

01:07:01.680 online right

01:07:02.140 is to

01:07:02.440 deny the

01:07:02.880 Holocaust.

01:07:03.520 Oh,

01:07:03.700 well,

01:07:03.760 it never

01:07:04.060 happened.

01:07:05.760 I think

01:07:06.260 that's so

01:07:06.920 silly as to

01:07:07.580 not even

01:07:07.940 warrant a

01:07:08.440 response.

01:07:09.640 I think

01:07:10.020 what might

01:07:10.980 be helpful

01:07:11.500 is to

01:07:12.160 start telling

01:07:13.620 the history

01:07:14.440 of the

01:07:14.860 West

01:07:15.140 differently,

01:07:16.080 to not

01:07:17.040 make the

01:07:17.540 Holocaust

01:07:17.940 the defining

01:07:19.240 event of

01:07:20.080 Western history

01:07:20.840 and of

01:07:21.120 European

01:07:21.400 history.

01:07:22.820 In the

01:07:23.360 same way

01:07:23.700 that,

01:07:23.900 you know,

01:07:24.020 in America,

01:07:24.460 we don't

01:07:24.860 need to

01:07:25.140 make the

01:07:25.460 civil rights

01:07:25.960 movement the

01:07:26.600 defining moment

01:07:27.720 of American

01:07:28.220 history and

01:07:28.760 everything points

01:07:29.560 to it.

01:07:30.280 It's a part

01:07:30.880 of our

01:07:31.120 history.

01:07:31.940 We should

01:07:32.320 know about

01:07:32.860 it,

01:07:33.760 but this

01:07:35.500 constant

01:07:36.200 flagellation

01:07:37.120 of the

01:07:37.460 nation,

01:07:38.620 the perpetual

01:07:39.440 atonement over

01:07:41.240 what was done

01:07:41.840 in the past

01:07:42.460 is leading to

01:07:43.560 the destruction

01:07:44.080 of these

01:07:44.480 nations.

01:07:45.780 And so,

01:07:46.160 you know,

01:07:46.520 there was a

01:07:47.500 few years ago,

01:07:48.140 I remember

01:07:48.580 IFD in

01:07:49.880 Germany got

01:07:50.640 into some

01:07:51.160 trouble because

01:07:53.180 they said

01:07:53.840 that, I

01:07:54.920 forget how

01:07:55.380 they phrased

01:07:55.880 it, and I

01:07:56.220 don't speak

01:07:56.600 German, but

01:07:57.280 basically that

01:07:58.020 Germany needs

01:07:59.200 to get over

01:07:59.700 the Holocaust.

01:08:01.240 And everyone

01:08:01.680 freaked out, but

01:08:02.580 I thought that

01:08:03.080 their point was

01:08:03.780 sound, is

01:08:04.220 basically they're

01:08:05.200 using memory of

01:08:06.180 the Holocaust to

01:08:07.060 destroy Germany

01:08:07.920 and to justify

01:08:10.680 these insane

01:08:11.960 immigration policies.

01:08:13.720 We need to

01:08:14.500 stop doing this

01:08:15.180 to ourselves.

01:08:15.680 So I think

01:08:16.420 the way to

01:08:16.780 do this is

01:08:17.260 not to deny

01:08:18.080 the Holocaust

01:08:18.620 or to

01:08:19.140 celebrate

01:08:19.500 Hitler, but

01:08:20.840 is to

01:08:21.380 realize that

01:08:22.700 the main

01:08:23.160 threat to

01:08:23.680 the West

01:08:24.100 right now

01:08:24.680 is not

01:08:25.140 white supremacy

01:08:25.820 or fascism.

01:08:28.200 It is, I

01:08:29.280 mean, the

01:08:29.700 immigration and

01:08:30.480 demographic

01:08:30.900 threat.

01:08:32.000 That's, I

01:08:32.880 think, at

01:08:33.280 the macro

01:08:33.720 level.

01:08:34.420 There are

01:08:34.640 other threats.

01:08:35.660 The financial

01:08:36.100 situation of

01:08:37.280 these Western

01:08:37.760 countries is not

01:08:38.400 inspiring, but

01:08:39.820 to me the

01:08:40.240 immigration and

01:08:40.900 the demographic

01:08:41.380 question is

01:08:42.000 paramount, and

01:08:42.960 we should

01:08:43.260 focus on

01:08:43.780 that.

01:08:44.020 I agree,

01:08:45.760 though I

01:08:45.980 would say

01:08:46.360 this.

01:08:46.880 I don't

01:08:47.300 think that

01:08:47.660 focus on

01:08:49.060 the Holocaust

01:08:49.600 as a singular

01:08:50.180 event is

01:08:50.840 exactly an

01:08:51.540 accident, right?

01:08:52.160 Like, you

01:08:52.440 don't have a

01:08:53.920 large swath

01:08:55.860 of the world

01:08:57.700 that is haunted

01:08:58.520 by the specter

01:08:59.240 of the Armenian

01:08:59.760 genocide.

01:09:00.820 It's something

01:09:01.240 that happened,

01:09:02.060 but it hasn't

01:09:02.880 radically transformed

01:09:04.420 the way that

01:09:05.320 people in that

01:09:06.120 area lead.

01:09:07.160 Because it was

01:09:07.800 committed by

01:09:09.560 Turks and

01:09:10.920 not by

01:09:11.600 Westerners.

01:09:12.300 look, we

01:09:17.360 also have

01:09:17.960 no, we're

01:09:18.400 not haunted

01:09:18.900 by the

01:09:19.320 specter of

01:09:19.800 communism.

01:09:21.280 I mean,

01:09:21.680 communism killed

01:09:22.400 100 million

01:09:23.060 people in

01:09:23.620 the 20th

01:09:24.120 century.

01:09:25.120 Where is

01:09:25.620 the trauma

01:09:26.280 in the

01:09:26.760 West around

01:09:27.840 we should

01:09:28.280 be careful

01:09:28.840 about excessive

01:09:29.580 egalitarianism?

01:09:32.120 Because our

01:09:33.560 God is

01:09:34.180 equality, and

01:09:35.140 communism, for

01:09:36.000 all of its

01:09:36.380 horrors, affirmed

01:09:37.440 our God.

01:09:38.260 And what the

01:09:38.820 Nazis did for

01:09:40.180 all of their,

01:09:40.900 in spite of

01:09:41.400 all their, on

01:09:42.020 top of all

01:09:42.540 their horrors,

01:09:43.280 is to deny

01:09:44.760 the God of

01:09:45.980 equality.

01:09:46.500 They affirmed

01:09:47.080 inequality.

01:09:48.160 And this is

01:09:48.920 what I think

01:09:49.440 has so rattled

01:09:50.360 the Western

01:09:50.860 consciousness.

01:09:52.400 It kind of, I

01:09:53.020 think, ultimately

01:09:53.580 vindicates

01:09:54.380 Tocqueville's

01:09:54.940 point about

01:09:55.440 the centrality

01:09:56.180 of equality

01:09:56.840 in the age

01:09:57.800 we live in.

01:09:58.400 Yeah, I do

01:10:03.700 wonder if

01:10:04.140 there's a little

01:10:04.880 more to that

01:10:05.700 narrative being

01:10:06.380 continuously a

01:10:07.740 part of the

01:10:08.420 post-war

01:10:09.980 consensus in

01:10:10.840 perhaps a way

01:10:11.520 that other

01:10:12.740 mass killings

01:10:14.660 that have been

01:10:15.460 carried out by

01:10:16.380 governments are

01:10:16.880 not.

01:10:17.340 But I do

01:10:18.340 agree that

01:10:18.760 ultimately the

01:10:19.320 solution is to

01:10:20.300 move beyond

01:10:20.780 this as some

01:10:21.300 kind of defining

01:10:21.940 feature, some

01:10:22.640 boogeyman to be

01:10:23.900 waved in front of

01:10:24.660 people.

01:10:25.200 So I think

01:10:26.720 there you're

01:10:27.120 absolutely correct.

01:10:27.960 All right, guys.

01:10:28.440 Well, we're going

01:10:28.820 to go ahead and

01:10:29.340 wrap this up.

01:10:30.220 I want to thank

01:10:30.760 David for coming

01:10:31.440 on.

01:10:31.780 It's been a

01:10:32.060 fantastic conversation.

01:10:34.040 If you'd like to

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01:10:52.220 rather.

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01:10:59.820 Thank you,

01:11:00.220 everybody, for

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01:11:01.120 And as always,

01:11:01.900 I'll talk to you

01:11:02.680 next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - August 05, 2024

Immigration Chaos Rages in the UK ｜ Guest： David Azerrad ｜ 8⧸5⧸2024

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