The Auron MacIntyre Show - September 05, 2025


Inside the National Conservatism Conference ｜ 9⧸5⧸25


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 4 minutes

Words per Minute

196.5528

Word Count

12,696

Sentence Count

724


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.540 Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I am Oren McIntyre.
00:00:05.840 Before we get started, I just want to remind you that the way we keep the lights on here,
00:00:09.600 the way that I keep doing what I'm doing is your support. And the best way to support
00:00:13.600 me is of course, joining Blaze TV. By going to blazetv.com slash Oren, you can get $20
00:00:21.840 off your subscription, which means it can be as low as $8 a month if you get an annual
00:00:26.680 plan. It's the best way to make sure that we keep getting to do what we want to do on this show
00:00:31.700 and you get access to all the other great Blaze hosts and different content. So head to blazetv.com
00:00:38.340 slash Oren to support our work here and get that $20 off. All right, guys. So I am back from the
00:00:47.160 National Conservatism Convention in Washington, D.C. I was asked to speak on one of the panels
00:00:53.520 there. I've done one previously. I was at NatCon 4 where I got to speak on a panel with Paul
00:00:59.540 Gottfried, which was really great. This time around, I was on an immigration panel discussing
00:01:04.660 how immigration impacts our sovereignty. Now, some of this might seem like inside baseball,
00:01:11.260 and of course it is. But one of the things I like to do, especially after these large conferences,
00:01:15.900 is give you a little look at what is going on. Because while this might seem boring in some aspects,
00:01:23.100 it's not the newest breaking news. It actually gives us, I think, a certain level of insight into
00:01:27.600 where the movement is going. National conservatism has become a larger force in the conservative
00:01:35.700 movement. It's an alternative to many of the other more mainstream or even neocon options that have
00:01:42.280 previously existed. However, it is itself, of course, not perfect like any other movement. It has its
00:01:49.100 different parts. It's different factions, its victories, and its losses. But ultimately, I think
00:01:54.500 national conservatism is, in a way, ascendant. And that makes for a really interesting observation
00:01:59.560 about how our politics is unwinding because we get to see a new movement in real time, discuss what it
00:02:07.120 wants to do, how it wants to approach things, who it wants to be, who's going to be part of the
00:02:12.020 coalition, what is it going to push? And this year was very interesting because at NatCon last year,
00:02:19.860 obviously, we were leading up to the election, right? We had not yet named who was going to be
00:02:27.380 Trump's vice presidential candidate. Several of the people who were very likely to be his
00:02:32.420 presidential candidate were speaking at the event. So in some ways, that felt like an audition.
00:02:37.220 There was a lot of energy going into the different speeches. There were a lot of politicians there
00:02:43.740 trying to kind of make their name inside this movement. Many of them clearly didn't understand
00:02:48.240 what was going on there. They just kind of showed up to give their same mainstream speeches. However,
00:02:54.340 we did see some really big, heavy hitters make a splash there, most notably J.D. Vance giving his
00:03:00.860 speech about how America is not just an idea, but a people, one that people still get riled up
00:03:07.020 about to this day. And obviously, Vance would go on to become the vice president. So a fairly
00:03:12.620 consequential speech at that time. There is an interesting shift in NatCon 5 because now the
00:03:20.160 national conservatism movement, like I said, is no longer insurgent, but it seems to be ascendant.
00:03:26.460 It seems to be in charge in many ways. J.D. Vance is the vice president. Many of the ideas and
00:03:32.280 priorities from the National Conservatism Convention have moved into the administration.
00:03:37.400 It's not all of them. It's not like they're dictating policy for Donald Trump. But you
00:03:41.680 could definitely see the personnel and the ideas moving into key places where they would have a
00:03:47.480 high level of influence. And so I think it matters what was being said here, and more importantly,
00:03:52.200 how it's changed. Because I think this is now a movement at a crossroads. This isn't necessarily
00:03:58.000 a bad thing. I think that ultimately all movements need to deal with this, especially after they win,
00:04:02.760 right? This is one of the things about winning. It changes the dynamic. You can win the battle,
00:04:08.520 but you have to win the peace as well. And the question is, can national conservatism stay relevant
00:04:14.160 after winning? Is it one of those things that just falls apart after it propels Donald Trump and a few
00:04:19.300 politicians into office? Is it going to remain relevant? Is it going to keep its coalition together?
00:04:25.160 How is it going to manage the coalition? Who's involved? Is it cutting anybody out? Is it censoring
00:04:30.120 people? Is it shoving people to the side? All very interesting dynamics. And so I want to get deeper
00:04:36.320 into the dynamic we saw at the current convention, what the biggest speeches were, what made the most
00:04:43.840 impact, and what wasn't there, I think is also really important. But before we get to all that,
00:04:48.020 guys, let's hear about Share the Arrows. You know, we spend a lot of time here talking about what's
00:04:53.600 going on in culture and politics, the battles, the noise, the craziness, but here's something
00:04:58.560 different. If you're a woman listening right now, or if there's a woman in your life that you care
00:05:02.460 about, you need to hear this. It's called Share the Arrows, and it's happening on October 11th in
00:05:07.600 Dallas, Texas. It's hosted by Blaze TV's own Allie Beth Stuckey, and it's designed to encourage,
00:05:12.920 equip, and speak truth into the lives of women who are trying to stand firm in this world.
00:05:17.480 This is a day full of worship, teaching, and real conversations. So if you're a woman who's been
00:05:23.080 craving encouragement and biblical truth, this is for you. And if you're a husband, or a dad,
00:05:27.700 or a brother listening, think about your wife, daughter, or sister who needs this. In a culture
00:05:32.900 that's constantly pulling in the wrong direction, this is a chance to stop, reset, and get grounded
00:05:37.760 in biblical truth. Tickets and details are at sharethearrows.com. And yes, VIP options are
00:05:43.620 still available. That's sharethearrows.com.
00:05:47.480 All right. So like I said, dynamics were very different this year. So last year, again,
00:05:52.820 approaching whether or not who's going to be the vice presidential candidate, and then you
00:05:58.580 actually have to win the election, all the questions behind that, everything's still up in
00:06:02.120 the air. Very different energy. At the last NatCon, it felt like a lot of people were auditioning.
00:06:09.780 The politicians were auditioning for roles inside the administration, or trying to feel out what this
00:06:15.460 new movement was and where their place would be in it. Were their old Senate talking points still
00:06:21.120 work? Do they need to update them and figure out what's going on next? You also very interestingly
00:06:26.780 had some clash of different groups. You had a little bit of representation from the tech right.
00:06:32.520 India was very prominent there, giving guys, giving speeches about how a billion Indians are going to
00:06:38.460 stand behind you. There was, like I said, a lot of guys showing up trying to press their influence
00:06:45.640 into the movement very clearly. Also, it seemed like there was a lot of different factions working
00:06:57.080 out different issues inside the movement. People were debating, okay, what does this nationalism look
00:07:02.140 like? What kind of nationalism do you have? What interests are we promoting? Are we free trade?
00:07:06.640 Are we protectionist? Are we just for closing the border to illegal immigrants? Are we looking at
00:07:13.200 legal immigration as well? Is infinite H-1Bs from India something we are ultimately supportive of,
00:07:20.460 or is that detrimental to the country? Just a lot of different questions being asked about the
00:07:26.180 administrative state and all kinds of other things that I think we were kind of playing with live
00:07:31.020 ammo at the time. It felt like some real impacts were being made in the room because at any point,
00:07:37.580 a lot of these guys could be going into an administration. They could win an election
00:07:40.680 and you could be in power and you'd have to know how you were going to address this stuff.
00:07:46.060 NatCon 5 was a little different because in this instance, obviously, the Trump administration is in
00:07:51.900 power. J.D. Vance is vice president. Many of the ideas from NatCon and many of the personnel have
00:07:57.400 moved into the movement and you start to see that, well, what you're really looking at now is more of
00:08:04.440 a movement that is in power. And so the speeches are less politicians, you know, giving fiery rhetoric
00:08:11.200 or trying to impress with, you know, so they can get a job somewhere or ingratiate themselves. And it tends
00:08:17.280 to be a lot more of like bureaucrats giving a report card about how they're doing, which makes perfect
00:08:22.160 sense. You're in power now. Your guys are in office. And so it's going to shift from, you know,
00:08:26.860 getting people excited to vote or, you know, be politically active or change these different
00:08:31.320 things. And instead, it's OK. How did we do? Our guys are in power. Are the ideas being implemented?
00:08:35.960 Are we seeing a lot of success? That definitely changes the energy in the room. Also, many of the
00:08:41.580 questions that had been on the table during the last NatCon were now off the table, not because I
00:08:48.060 think they were like censored or anything, but because the Trump administration is in power and was
00:08:51.880 driving policy. So you kind of have this thing where you're still talking about the issues,
00:08:57.740 but the main guy in charge is setting the policy at the end of the day. You can advise him. You can
00:09:02.820 try to shape things, but it's him and his administration that's calling the shots. And so
00:09:06.980 you can talk about what's going on, but you're you're not under the impression that you're the
00:09:11.080 ones that are directly driving the decision making process or, you know, they have a heavy weight of
00:09:16.380 sorting out everything the Trump administration needs to apply. Now, don't get me wrong. They were
00:09:19.960 still talking about critical issues. But in many ways, it felt like there was a lot more agreement
00:09:25.040 in many of the panels. There was less debate. It was less contentious, except for one panel,
00:09:30.320 which was quite contentious, which I'll get to in a second. But it was definitely a shift. I'll say
00:09:36.400 this for the NatCon five, even though there were. So it turns out there were more people there this
00:09:43.780 year. There's a higher level of attendance. But the way that they had arranged the chairs,
00:09:47.940 and I'm sorry, this is just kind of like minutia for convention organizers. But but there were there
00:09:54.060 were a lot of chairs in every room, more chairs than they needed by far, which gave you the impression
00:09:58.540 that the rooms were empty, that there were there were very, very few people showing up to any given
00:10:04.780 talk or sitting in the room to listen to what's going on. And, you know, it's very common when you're
00:10:09.660 at these events that the speeches are kind of the secondary thing that's going on. The real juice is
00:10:16.100 happening in the conversations in the hallways. It's the networking. It's the guys who are getting
00:10:20.900 together in, you know, between sessions talking, you know, trying to put things together, deciding
00:10:26.780 if they want to work together, seeing if they can build an organization or push a policy issue or
00:10:32.280 find someone else they can work with on a book or a project or publish something. That's really what a
00:10:38.160 lot of people are there to do. And the talks are just kind of an excuse to be in that presence.
00:10:43.820 But there's still a lot of people in the room. And last year there, it felt like the rooms were
00:10:48.480 usually packed. Most of the presentations and the big speeches and the big stages,
00:10:53.920 there's a lot more going on. It felt like the energy was higher. And again, it's there were more
00:10:58.840 people at this year's event. But the way it was arranged, the way the things were set up made it
00:11:04.240 feel like there was less going on, that fewer people were interested in any given speech, which is just
00:11:10.360 not great for the speakers and it's not great for the feeling of the conference. So just a thought
00:11:16.180 that, you know, in general, if you're running any kind of event like this, you of course want to have
00:11:19.600 enough chairs for everybody supposed to be there. But be careful about, you know, just creating too
00:11:24.440 much space in any of these given scenarios, because that along with, I think, just kind of the general
00:11:29.300 lower energy of the speakers meant that the it did not have the same dynamic quality. I think last
00:11:36.280 year, again, some of that is just because last year you were building up to the election and
00:11:39.480 nothing's going to match that, obviously. But I still think that was a factor that that sapped
00:11:45.000 little energy from the room. So early on, we had a the opening session was introduced by Rachel
00:11:53.980 Bovard. And it was very interesting because she immediately went after the tech right for kind of
00:11:59.920 it's nice that you're here. It's nice that you're part of this movement, but you don't get to
00:12:04.460 dictate terms to us, that kind of thing. Great. Loved all that. That's a great message. I've
00:12:08.960 I've made that exact point. Really fantastic. I'm bored with that message and her speech.
00:12:14.320 But then right after her comes Yarm Hazoni. And Hazoni is obviously the leader of NatCon.
00:12:20.860 He's the organizers, the head of the Edmund Burke Foundation that runs the whole thing.
00:12:25.620 And his message was, well, we need to stop being so factional. There's too many there's too many
00:12:31.340 factions going on and we're attacking each other. We're trying to, you know, the knives are out for
00:12:37.180 the coalition because he recognizes what's going on. Right. Like one of the consequences of victory
00:12:41.740 is everyone then scrambles for power. Right. You needed to be a coalition. You're needing to make
00:12:47.840 different concessions in order to get into power. But once you're in power, the need to make concessions
00:12:53.400 kind of fades. Right. And then it's scrambling to say, OK, who gets what? You know, we've got the power.
00:12:59.120 We've got the positions. Now who's going to dictate the priorities? What part of the coalition is going
00:13:04.120 to lead? Do we need to expel any parts of the coalition? That's kind of the natural dynamic.
00:13:09.320 You know, it's not particular to NatCon. It's just any any political movement is going to have this
00:13:15.100 problem. And so Hazoni was obviously trying to, like, tamp down on that spirit in the conference.
00:13:20.920 But then we led with it from Rachel. So it was very interesting that even kind of the first two
00:13:28.580 opening speeches were in some way contradicting each other a little bit. Hazoni also obviously
00:13:35.540 very concerned about, you know, the feelings towards Israel and, you know, Jews and this kind
00:13:40.840 of thing that he feels is getting out of control on the right. Obviously, that's a message that's going
00:13:48.700 to resound with, I think, some percentage of that audience. But there are also those who are
00:13:55.580 wondering, OK, does this mean we cannot be critical of this kind of thing? Now, I've, you know, talked
00:14:00.240 to Hazoni on this issue and he says he's fine with the criticism. We'll talk in a minute about the panel
00:14:05.120 that I think was probably the most dynamic panel that was on this issue in the entire thing. But but it
00:14:10.780 just, you know, these are it felt a little more like a lecture at the very beginning, like a like a, you know,
00:14:16.520 kind of pull yourselves together and behave, which, you know, again, just it doesn't set the mood for
00:14:23.140 a super like dynamic discussion, even though the point about not stabbing everybody in the back
00:14:28.220 and destroying your political coalition, you know, well taken, if perhaps maybe maybe something that
00:14:33.260 had been best saved for a little later in the entire discussion is not kill the energy right away.
00:14:37.980 So the first set of panels that they had, you know, they have this they have these plenary speakers,
00:14:47.600 which are the ones who like speak to everybody. And then they have these breakout panels and they
00:14:51.840 have several sessions of breakout panels through the day. And I really like this format as compared
00:14:55.820 to, say, the arc format that they had in the UK, because in, you know, in the arc format, basically
00:15:02.560 everything happens on the main stage. Everybody's a big speaker. And that's great for the people who get
00:15:06.760 to speak. But it really makes it difficult to get a different opinions, right? Like everybody has to
00:15:13.200 be extremely mainstream, they have to deliver their message to the entire organization. There's a lot
00:15:19.360 less debate back and forth, different opinions out there, not a lot of interaction. It's a lot of
00:15:25.020 single, you know, kind of TED talk style things going on. And so this format, I think is much better
00:15:30.420 because it lets you address far more issues simultaneously, you get to hear from far more people,
00:15:35.260 they get to interact more, they actually get questions from the audience, and they can kind
00:15:39.280 of ask each other or debate some things. And so I do much prefer the NatCon way of doing things,
00:15:46.360 it feels like there is an actual debate or discussion to some extent going on, of course,
00:15:50.860 always within certain boundaries. But it feels like you're playing a little more with live ammunition
00:15:55.640 as where, you know, the arc conference is really just kind of, hey, here's big guys, you've
00:16:01.580 probably already famous, you know, listen to them, give a speech that's pretty similar to
00:16:06.420 everything you've heard them say for a long time. And you can't ask any questions, and there's no
00:16:11.640 interaction, that kind of thing. So the first breakout session, and the way this works is they
00:16:16.760 have them going on simultaneously. So you can't attend everything. There's like three panels going
00:16:21.680 on each time you have to make a decision which one you want to be in. And on top of that, like I'm
00:16:26.000 getting pulled out for media hits and conversations, all this stuff. So it's difficult to be in every
00:16:30.700 room, you literally can't be in every room, but it's hard to even make it to to one session every
00:16:35.420 time. But I did find the AI panel an interesting one, to be sure. I had a few people on there like
00:16:42.740 Jeffrey Miller, who's been on my show, guys, I've been on their show and spoken to them like Jeffrey
00:16:47.520 Tucker, addressing a lot of key issues that I think we need to understand better. I don't think there
00:16:54.000 was anything groundbreaking in this panel. It's a lot of the stuff I'm already familiar with. But to be
00:16:58.680 fair, I might be more familiar with this topic than many having explored on a regular basis. So I don't
00:17:04.460 want to say it wouldn't be useful to the average person, because for the average person who hasn't
00:17:08.520 thought deeply about this issue or interviewed significant people in this area, if you know, this
00:17:13.880 could all be new information for them. I think actually Jeffrey Tucker, ironically, was the was the
00:17:17.980 best speech in that, because he gave kind of a speech of like how to deal with the fact that this is
00:17:23.540 going to kind of happen no matter what, and how to deal with it without technology. So his was kind
00:17:28.760 of a little looser, a little more positive, a little less AI is going to doom us or AI is going
00:17:35.100 to save us and more like how to be human in these moments, which I thought was a refreshing form of
00:17:40.840 speech. But that was a good talk, addressing a good topic. Not a lot of disagreement there. Again,
00:17:47.480 we'll see this kind of play out throughout the panels. A lot a lot of people with very similar
00:17:51.960 positions all being there saying very similar things with only minor variations. It does kind
00:17:59.140 of make some of these things run together, get a little samey. But I will say I thought that that
00:18:04.660 panel went pretty well overall. The next the next big stage speech, and the one that really blew up all
00:18:12.520 over was Eric Schmidt's speech about what is an American right now. Obviously, this is a issue I
00:18:18.280 care a lot about. I've talked a lot about I've written about. And I think it really is the question
00:18:23.600 of our times. So the fact that Eric Schmidt, a senator, was willing to go up there and give a
00:18:29.740 speech on what is a very controversial topic. Really, I think I think this honestly, I think this was the
00:18:35.920 most important speech of the of the entire conference. And I'm a little biased, obviously,
00:18:40.860 because I care deeply about this issue. But I think just objectively, it was also the most
00:18:44.800 important speech. It was the one that got immediate blowback, not just from the left,
00:18:49.920 the left was all losing their minds that you might ask, you know, who's legitimately American? Is
00:18:54.600 American a real category? They were already furious that anyone would do that. But on top of that,
00:19:02.140 a lot of people on the right, all the usual suspects, I'm not going to name their names because
00:19:05.980 they spend, you know, they spend all day cruising around desperately hoping someone will pay
00:19:09.440 attention to them. But a lot of the guys you'd expect on the right also lost their mind over
00:19:14.320 asking this very basic question. And I think Schmidt's speech was was was very good. Again,
00:19:21.020 he's not as specific, perhaps as some people would like. But this is still the topic a lot of people
00:19:26.160 are approaching for the first time. And so that means that you have to be a little more delicate,
00:19:31.480 you have to give people a little bit of runway. You know, this is a conversation that we have just
00:19:35.440 kind of started finally. And so I know a lot of people are just trying to rush it through to the
00:19:40.120 end. But you need to give time for this kind of thing to develop. And a guy of Schmidt's stature
00:19:44.480 giving up getting up and talking about, you know, we are not a set of ideas. We are not a proposition.
00:19:50.160 We are not an economic zone. We are people. We are a place. We are a language. We're religion.
00:19:55.700 We're a heritage. Like we are all of these things combined. And that gives us a real lived identity.
00:20:02.780 It is not just something that you can pick up, you know, by by walking in the door or raising your
00:20:08.300 hand and being just as American as someone who's been here for hundreds of years. I mean, just the
00:20:13.460 fact that he was talking about that kind of stuff is huge. That is it. That is a massive, massive
00:20:18.420 Overton window shift. I know for this audience, you're like, oh, what? That is barely anything.
00:20:22.600 It's that's baby's first steps. But yeah, the fact that the senators are taking those steps
00:20:26.680 matters because before this would have all been extremely taboo and people lost their minds about
00:20:31.920 it. All right. So the the next panel there. So again, three panel splits. And I really would
00:20:44.380 have I wanted to go. There's a panel on the need for heroism and masculine virtue. And I heard
00:20:51.420 it was very good. It had a lot of good people on it. Alex Petkus, who's been on this show.
00:20:56.300 James or who's been on this show was chairing it. Our Reno, who I've talked about, I've reviewed
00:21:01.860 his book on this channel. They were all there. That's a very interesting panel. And I wish I
00:21:06.720 could have attended it. I have to watch it on, you know, later because, you know, all these
00:21:10.620 are happening simultaneously because I knew the panel that was really going to pop off if
00:21:14.380 there's going to be one panel that really was going to make news and was going to have a
00:21:18.420 lot of controversy. It was the Iran-Israel war panel. And so this panel was headed by
00:21:25.320 Dan McCarthy, who's a guy who's part of ISI. I've spoken to before. Very nice guy. He is
00:21:32.560 moderating this and he is the editor that or sorry, he's connected. He operates one of the
00:21:39.700 magazines that Kurt Mills is the chief editor for. Kurt Mills was taking the, you know, kind
00:21:46.280 of opposing the war position. And then they had Max Abrams, who is taking the kind of pro-war,
00:21:52.580 pro-Israel position. And the panel was very interesting for a couple of reasons. Kurt, if
00:21:58.120 you've ever seen him as a very intense guy, right? He's a guy who is very passionate. He's
00:22:04.480 very direct. You look at Max Abrams and I don't know, man, if you're an Israel fan, if you're
00:22:14.460 like pro-Israel, don't ever put Max Abrams up as your representative, right? Like forget the
00:22:20.900 arguments, forget like what team you're on for a minute. Max Abrams is just a terrible, terrible
00:22:26.540 representative for any cause. He is extremely, extremely unlikable. And, uh, he has this like
00:22:35.560 strange, highly effeminate, like draw, like, well, you know, when we go here, it's, it's just
00:22:42.520 grating. And anytime he got asked a question, you just filibustered for, he took, you know,
00:22:47.280 10, 10 minutes, talked over, uh, Kurt's the, uh, or, uh, over, uh, Kurt Mills the entire
00:22:52.640 time. Uh, it was very difficult for Kurt to get, uh, uh, you know, anything edgewise, uh,
00:22:58.080 not because I think Dan McCarthy was doing a bad job moderating, but because of the number
00:23:03.120 of questions from the audience that ended up going to Abrams, like the, the people just
00:23:07.740 line up, uh, to ask questions at the microphone. They don't get vetted on what their questions are
00:23:12.060 going to be about. Um, and so, uh, they just happened to the first string of them happened
00:23:17.520 to be mostly for Max Abrams. And he tended to take a large amount of this. Now, uh, the
00:23:22.600 debate started off somewhat cordial, but, you know, quickly got, uh, uh, uh, more aggressive.
00:23:27.460 I don't think anyone was out of hand. It was, it wasn't a complete train wreck. It continued
00:23:31.760 to be a debate. You know, people were, you know, obviously, uh, getting emotional over some
00:23:38.640 of the answers, but they were, there wasn't a lot of personal attacks of character for the most part,
00:23:42.900 uh, in the middle of this debate, the really interesting thing started to occur, uh, once
00:23:48.760 you got to the questions. Uh, so Paul Godfrey was the first question on the mic. Uh, and it's very,
00:23:56.800 uh, interesting to see a guy like Paul Godfrey, uh, get to ask the very first question. Uh, and he
00:24:02.780 specifically went to neoconservatives and their very disastrous influence on American politics.
00:24:08.780 Uh, there were other guys like Connor Tomlinson who asked a very challenging question about the
00:24:14.120 relocation of Palestinians. If they are driven out of Gaza, are they going to go to the UK? Are they
00:24:18.940 going to go to European nations? Uh, if, uh, how, how are you going to prevent that if that's,
00:24:24.180 if that's the plan? Uh, so these were questions that I think, uh, Max definitely gave very unsatisfactory
00:24:31.980 answers for, and you could feel the tension kind of building in the room that he continually over
00:24:37.220 and over again had a difficult time. Now, during these, uh, discussions multiple times, Max Abrams
00:24:46.700 worked in the phrase, the woke, right? The woke, right? Once this, the woke, right? Once that. Now
00:24:51.500 this is very interesting because of course, uh, James Lindsay and his ilk use the woke, right? And
00:24:56.660 they keep denying that it has anything to do with Israel. The woke, right? Is about a Marxism. It's
00:25:01.300 about, uh, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, it's, it's, it's your, your oppression and power and all
00:25:05.700 these things you're, you're using, you're taking on the aspects of the left. But for Max, it was very
00:25:10.420 clear. The woke, right? Is just anyone who opposes Israel, right? So he, he's, he's, I think, giving the
00:25:16.300 game away. He's not being as coy with what the actual, uh, phrase, uh, means. It's anybody who is,
00:25:22.920 it's not even opposing Israel. It's anyone who is insufficiently loyal to Israel. They're the woke,
00:25:27.220 right. And, um, you know, that's not surprising because Benjamin Netanyahu was throwing this term
00:25:32.100 around recently as well. And so, uh, you have to start asking questions like, where did this term
00:25:38.540 come from? Why did these people adopt it? Was there any coordination here? Why have we been
00:25:43.860 pretending that woke, right? Was about Marxism or all these other things? If Max is on stage,
00:25:48.560 basically just announcing the fact that ultimately it's about Israel and that's really, it's only
00:25:53.940 defining feature. By the way, James Lindsay called, uh, Harzoni woke, right? Harzoni was
00:26:00.180 in the room. So Max Abrams is using this term that has been used to slander Yoram Harzoni,
00:26:05.680 who obviously is like an Israeli national, very pro-Israel. Uh, and yet he's defining the
00:26:10.960 woke, right? As being anti-Israel. So is this like a, is this like shade being thrown at
00:26:15.460 Harzoni while he's in the room? Is he, is he like trying to attack him for even allowing
00:26:19.400 this debate to happen? And I want to say this, I really want to say this for sure.
00:26:23.940 Uh, credit to Hazoni for letting this one happen. Uh, a lot of people question whether
00:26:28.880 this kind of discussion would be going on because obviously, uh, Edmund Burke foundation,
00:26:34.480 Hazoni, he is an Israeli national. Uh, there's a lot of yarmulkes in the staff. We'll just put
00:26:39.900 it that way. And so a lot of people were wondering, okay, are you, are you going to be discussing
00:26:43.900 this issue? Because this is the issue at the moment. Like if there's one issue that's tearing
00:26:48.920 the new right apart, it is the issue of American foreign policy is specifically in relation to
00:26:53.660 Israel. Should we continue to have the type of relationship we have with Israel? Should we
00:26:57.680 continue to provide the level of basically, you know, unquestioned support that we do for a
00:27:02.880 country that seems to profit us very little. And so, you know, Hazoni, I think is very aware of
00:27:09.260 this fact, even though he doesn't like the blowback that I think, you know, Israel and many Jews are
00:27:13.600 getting on the right. He knows that the PR problem is rough and that his organization could be
00:27:18.880 irrelevant if it doesn't address this issue. And so he allowed the discussion to occur. He allowed
00:27:24.480 the debate to occur. Um, and, uh, again, the, the questions were, were from the audience were,
00:27:30.720 uh, stiff. You know, this is why I like that there's audience participation. Yes. There are a few
00:27:35.340 people who, uh, you know, there are people who were pro Israel and anti Israel asking questions.
00:27:39.840 Uh, but obviously like, you know, these are, these were big questions. So for instance,
00:27:44.700 uh, by the third time I heard, uh, Abrams use the, uh, uh, the phrase woke, right? I was like,
00:27:50.240 okay, I need to get up there and I need to ask a question. So I got in line and, uh, the guy before
00:27:56.240 me, and this was hilarious. I had, I had Connor Tomlinson, you know, former Lotus Eaters. He's with,
00:28:00.300 uh, Ayaan Hirsi Ali's outfit. Now he asked his question about refugees in the UK. And, you know,
00:28:05.300 are you going to be forcing all these Palestinians into, to further degrade the UK? Uh, he asked
00:28:11.780 that question. Then the guy in front of me leans over. He's like, uh, yeah, it's gotta be like 22
00:28:16.960 maybe. And he says, Hey, I just got done with my, uh, internship over at the Cato Institute. And I
00:28:23.060 would like to ask you about the USS Liberty. That's a Cato Institute intern. That's a Cato Institute
00:28:33.240 intern. He gets up on a mic in front of everybody and says, we need to talk about the USS Liberty.
00:28:39.120 Now, obviously Abrams is just like, ah, it's all propaganda. It's all a conspiracy theory,
00:28:42.960 whatever. But the fact that a Cato Institute intern is getting on a hot mic and asking that
00:28:49.120 question is wild. Okay. Gripers were, we're barely asking those kinds of questions when they were doing
00:28:56.180 their thing. And now it's Cato interns. Israel's got a problem. Like they, like they, they have a
00:29:02.780 real problem. They do not know what's coming generationally or they do. Right. And I think,
00:29:06.680 I think it's one of the reasons that has only, you know, needs to have these conversations,
00:29:11.440 allowing these conversations, because if they don't have these conversations now, if you don't
00:29:16.000 sort this stuff out now, uh, you know, the zoomers, they're on a whole another level, man.
00:29:21.260 Like that's a whole nother wave that's coming. And, uh, you know, when, when, when you have,
00:29:25.940 when you, when you have guys who are working for Cato, interning with Cato, asking those kinds of
00:29:30.720 questions, uh, you know, there's a whole nother generational, uh, uh, you know, uh, just Mack
00:29:35.860 truck coming down the road for, uh, uh, for, for, for the kind of the pro Israel forces, if they don't
00:29:41.640 recognize kind of what's going on there. So, um, after that question, which was, uh, very exciting to
00:29:49.840 follow, uh, I, you know, I, I just asked the same thing I kind of said on, on Tucker Carlson. Hey,
00:29:54.380 look, uh, we've got George Washington talking about the need to avoid entangling alliances and
00:29:59.760 maintain our national sovereignty. We're at NatCon, right? We're at a convention about, uh,
00:30:05.640 nationalism. We need to be talking about the sovereignty side of this hate Israel, love Israel.
00:30:12.940 Uh, you know, think that they're extremely valuable ally. I think that they're ultimately
00:30:16.420 a weight around your neck, whatever you stand, wherever you stand on this, if you are a nationalist,
00:30:20.880 you should care about how this issue impacts your natural, your national sovereignty.
00:30:26.140 And, uh, you know, when, when I asked that, uh, again, uh, pointing out, you know, several different,
00:30:31.780 uh, thinkers, uh, who had recognized that a Republic who owes its allegiance or gives its, uh, victories
00:30:39.860 to other people's arms, you know, wins its victories under, uh, other people's arms. They're going
00:30:45.120 to lose their sovereignty. You know, when I asked that question, uh, of course, Kurt agreed, you know,
00:30:48.960 he was like, yes, of course. Yeah. I'm on board with all that. Uh, you know, Abrams, he just kind
00:30:53.340 of muddled around, you know, well, you know, he, he didn't answer the question because Kurt had said
00:30:58.900 something about how, uh, different decisions on previous wars had been driven by many Israeli
00:31:05.720 interests. And so rather than just discussing what I had pointed out, which was the abstract
00:31:10.160 philosophical question, he just immediately went back to Kurt's assertions because those are far
00:31:15.040 more easy for him to kind of muddy the waters with. So he just entirely dodged the question
00:31:19.300 didn't, didn't do anything with it. Uh, so I'll say this, you can certainly walk out of that panel
00:31:24.720 still being pro Israel and everything else. But I think if you are, you have to really be angry at
00:31:30.320 Max Abrams for like giving the worst possible case available, like just being the most unlikable,
00:31:36.560 most dismissive, uh, most like effeminate human being who could have possibly gotten on that stage
00:31:43.280 and kind of tried to answer those questions was just, you know, catty and dismissive,
00:31:47.780 dodging every question, filibustering. Uh, and, and so, like I said, even if, even if you were on his
00:31:53.280 side, I don't think you can walk out of that one feeling very good about how that went. Uh, so, uh,
00:31:59.100 I wouldn't say that, that Kurt knocked him down and just, you know, pure, uh, you know, factual,
00:32:04.700 you know, though I, yeah, I think he, he was more factual in many ways than, than Abrams was,
00:32:09.200 but I think he mainly won on the fact that just Abrams was so insufferable that anyone watching
00:32:13.600 it would just be completely blown away. Now the final speaker, uh, for that day was, uh,
00:32:20.340 Armie Dillon of course is the, uh, uh, you know, head of the, uh, the DOJ's, uh, civil rights division.
00:32:27.420 Uh, now the thing about Dylan is she is been pretty good at her job, right? She's cleaned out a large
00:32:34.120 amount of the civil rights division. A lot of, uh, leftists who were working there didn't want to
00:32:38.000 be there under her, didn't want to do the job that she wanted them to do. Uh, and, uh, she has
00:32:43.580 generally applied the law, uh, relatively fairly at this point. So in this respect, Dylan is a massive
00:32:50.780 upgrade. I want to say that first, like she's a huge upgrade. Her work has been superior to basically
00:32:55.640 anyone in that position in my lifetime. So this is not a knock on her current performance. However,
00:33:03.680 her rhetoric was terrible. It was just absolutely terrible. Uh, it was all the civil rights tropes
00:33:12.220 you could imagine. I guess that makes sense. She runs the civil rights division. Uh, but she did not
00:33:16.200 see this as a, uh, uh, as a problem. She didn't understand the civil rights division as an issue
00:33:22.800 that was, you know, that overall just the existence of the level of power that this, uh, bureaucracy
00:33:29.100 wields, that this body of law wields. Um, she, she didn't see the problem with it. She thinks it's
00:33:34.340 still necessary. She's still, uh, she's still continuing to support it. On top of that, she
00:33:40.000 started talking about things like, uh, you know, uh, the Dixiecrats, you know, and their racism in
00:33:44.960 the South and how they're still the same people today. And, um, I guess that probably plays with
00:33:51.260 like some of the talk radio conservatives still, who are still kind of recycling that trash from 15 years
00:33:56.140 ago. Uh, but I can notice when somebody whose name isn't exactly like generationally American
00:34:02.600 is talking about how crappy the South is like, maybe keep those thoughts to yourself. You know,
00:34:10.040 maybe, maybe now's not the time to tell me how much you hate Americans in the South at my national
00:34:14.700 conservatism convention. Maybe you can hold those opinions for a while. You know, maybe you don't
00:34:19.760 need to share that with everybody, but she did. Uh, and, uh, frankly, it was embarrassing. It wasn't
00:34:24.780 great. Uh, and I, I think that while I, I appreciate her work and I, like I said, I think
00:34:29.420 she's doing a better job than pretty much anyone in my lifetime has done in that. And, and that's,
00:34:33.800 what's most important to be clear. Ultimately, you know, the work is what matters. The results are
00:34:37.400 what matter. So I'm not going to get completely, you know, I'm not going to call for her resignation
00:34:41.960 because of her usage of this language or something, you know, she's effective do her job. Uh, but maybe
00:34:48.020 she shouldn't be doing these kinds of events. Maybe she shouldn't be giving these kinds of speeches
00:34:51.760 because it was frankly embarrassing. It was embarrassing to see this, you know, 15, 20
00:34:56.720 year old conservative talk radio rhetoric that has in no way been evaluated. Uh, and, and
00:35:02.180 it does worry me a little bit, you know, I, like I said, doing much better in the civil
00:35:06.120 rights division, but if you're taking that attitude in there, I mean, you still kind of
00:35:10.420 have all the baggage that came with this basically progressive view. Like literally what, what
00:35:15.780 is the difference between her values and progressive values when she voices them like
00:35:19.580 that? I mean, I know practically she's working out well in that position. So again, I'm not
00:35:26.160 complaining about the results, but you know, the questions do arise as to whether, you know,
00:35:31.320 this is ultimately like going to be in the favor of people who are voting for Trump. If you've got
00:35:36.160 someone sitting around being like, well, all those stupid chuds in the South are racist and you know,
00:35:40.460 we're going to take care of them. Like maybe, maybe that's not the best, uh, you know,
00:35:46.020 rhetoric to have in that particular position. All right. So, uh, the next day, uh, we had, uh,
00:35:55.220 uh, Tom Homan, I think was probably the best speech early on in that one. Again, in a lot of ways,
00:36:01.600 this was bureaucrats giving their report card, you know, Dylan comes in and talks about all the
00:36:06.160 changes she's making at the, uh, civil rights division. Homan comes in and talks about his
00:36:11.540 deportation stuff. Now, ultimately, um, I, I obviously care deeply about deportation. So I
00:36:16.740 think this is very important. I care probably most about this topic. And so him discussing it was
00:36:21.880 great. Uh, he had some fantastic lines. He was exactly, uh, the kind of the bulldog you want him
00:36:26.940 to be talking about. He didn't care if people called him racist. He said, I don't care if they
00:36:30.320 call me a white supremacist. I've heard it all. I don't give a, you know, uh, and drop, drop some
00:36:35.280 language. And, uh, you know, that, that is great. It's great to see that attitude. Uh, Homan was laying out,
00:36:40.660 uh, some, you know, some compelling numbers on how they were approaching everything.
00:36:44.120 He was talking about, uh, the children that he was trying to track down and protect very compelling,
00:36:48.780 uh, you know, and, and, and tragic, uh, stories about kind of the children that might've been lost
00:36:54.180 or abused. Uh, I think it was very good. He, he, you know, he's obviously a very, he's kind of got a
00:36:59.660 working class affect to him. So it's not going to be the most polished speech. It's not going to be the,
00:37:04.760 the most area diet. Uh, but I think it was powerful, emotional. It was effective. Uh,
00:37:09.620 his direct talk is exactly, I think what you want in that position. And so I think he was great.
00:37:13.980 Now I will say this, uh, he did keep emphasizing the fact that they were going to be making
00:37:19.000 dangerous criminals. The, the, the main focus of the deportations. And of course they should be,
00:37:24.560 but he seemed to emphasize that one too many times, uh, to, to the F a point where it kind of felt like
00:37:30.740 you seem to be saying that as a way to exclude other larger deportation options. Like I'm great.
00:37:37.460 I'm grateful that we are starting with the worst criminals, but we're pretty far into the first
00:37:42.560 year of the administration at this point, it's time to start gearing up for the larger deportations.
00:37:47.080 We were told were coming. Now, a lot of people are skeptical. Those are coming. I am trying to trust
00:37:51.960 the plan on this, but I'd like to see that scale up. Now he did mention the number of agency has now
00:37:57.680 the funding they have now that things will ratchet up and forget the talk today. The Trump administration
00:38:03.980 rated a, uh, Hyundai plant and they rated, uh, I believe it was a, uh, a farm or I'm trying to
00:38:11.240 remember the other place, a restaurant that they rated. Uh, but none of the, at the, at the, uh,
00:38:16.140 automobile plant, they picked up 450, 450 workers who had overstayed their visas. Now I don't know why
00:38:23.840 there's a single foreigner working on an automotive plant floor in the United States. Isn't that what
00:38:30.060 we're doing? Wasn't the whole point of reshoring manufacturing to give manufacturing jobs back to
00:38:36.400 Americans? Why are, why are there Koreans in the Korean car factory in the United States?
00:38:42.800 What, what, what, what's the point of having the car factory in the United States? If you're going to
00:38:46.260 staff it with a bunch of people from the country you just came from it, it's insane. But anyway,
00:38:51.700 the good news is that the Trump administration, uh, rounded up a lot of those people. Uh, and,
00:38:56.460 and in the case of the restaurant, I believe they're actually charging the owners. Now they
00:39:01.160 should also be charging Hyundai. I don't care how big a company they are. If they violated the law
00:39:05.340 and they were knowingly, uh, allowing people to stay on after their visas had expired, they should
00:39:09.660 be paying significant costs. But the, the word is that they're already charging, um, you know,
00:39:14.200 these restaurant owners. And that's what we need. It's not just the deportations. We need them too.
00:39:18.040 But one of the main ways you get self deportations is to make employment impossible. And the way you make
00:39:23.040 employment impossible is you punish the employers, the people who are breaking the law by hiring
00:39:27.880 illegal aliens, knowing what they're doing and continuing to give American jobs to these people
00:39:32.440 anyway, refusing to raise, to raise their wages, instead employing illegals knowingly and hurting
00:39:38.200 Americans. And so I love to see that they're actually, uh, hitting, not just the, you know,
00:39:44.360 not just the worst criminals, but we're hitting, uh, big businesses, small businesses. We're actually
00:39:50.840 prosecuting the owners of those businesses. These, these are big steps, big steps. And so,
00:39:56.840 uh, like I said, uh, action better than rhetoric. And we see here from the Trump administration today,
00:40:03.000 good action. I hope we continue that if we, you know, we should be doing one of those a day,
00:40:07.300 right? You, you keep hitting employers like that message is going to get out. People, uh, are going
00:40:12.920 to get scared. Illegal immigrants are going to get scared to go to jobs that they're illegally working
00:40:16.900 and they're going to go home because they can't make money. They can't send the money home. Uh,
00:40:21.360 they can't, uh, receive all the benefits in the United States. This needs to happen. I'm great.
00:40:26.440 I'm grateful that the Trump administration is doing it. Big win, big win. And I want to see more of it.
00:40:31.840 I want to see more of it. And I think Homan is a great representative for that. He did a great job.
00:40:36.900 Uh, then we had a breakout of three panels. Now this was, this really, uh, was annoying for me because
00:40:42.960 this is the only downside of this format. I had, I was on my, uh, immigration panel and sovereignty
00:40:48.520 panel. Uh, my friend who's been on this show several times, Jeremy Carl, he was running a
00:40:52.980 power, a panel with Paul Gottfried, which I really wanted to see, but it was happening
00:40:56.540 simultaneously. And then several guys who have been on this show, uh, uh, we're in kind of the
00:41:01.680 Protestant, uh, you know, biblical worldview and Christian nationalism panel. Uh, but that was all
00:41:06.840 happening simultaneously. So I couldn't, you know, I was on a panel while I wanted to see two other
00:41:10.340 panels. Uh, so I can't, I heard both of them were good, but I can't really speak to, uh, kind of the,
00:41:16.380 the quality, uh, ultimately of, uh, of the discussion there. Uh, and then we had, uh, again,
00:41:21.940 some more, it felt like, uh, re running down your, uh, your report card from bureaucrats. We had Tulsi
00:41:30.300 Gabbard come on. She talked about, uh, you know, the, the conspiracy against Trump and the Russiagate
00:41:35.400 stuff and everything and great, but you know, we've heard all this. If you've ever watched her on Fox
00:41:39.380 news or something, no new information there. It would have been nice if we had heard, Hey,
00:41:43.620 and here's someone we're prosecuting. We just filed charges, but we didn't hear any of that.
00:41:48.120 We just heard, here's all the stuff we've uncovered. It's all the same stuff you've heard
00:41:51.360 literally any other place I've spoken. So kind of, why are you here? Right? Like that? Like,
00:41:56.160 again, I like that she's doing this stuff, but like, I was hoping there would be some kind of
00:42:00.060 announcement that, Hey, we're, we're sending some people to jail. We're finally going to drop the
00:42:05.060 hammer on all these guys that betrayed the country and committed treason.
00:42:08.520 And we just kind of didn't get it. Uh, again, miles better than anyone else in that position,
00:42:14.620 but like, let's move forward. Right. You can't show up to one of these and just give me like the
00:42:21.240 same speech you've given 30 times on every news network that then what are we doing here? Right.
00:42:27.280 And Jay Bhavacharya again, rockstar in his position, no complaints about his work. Uh, obviously having,
00:42:33.200 uh, you know, him talking about free speech and everything else is related to vaccinations and
00:42:38.080 the science and everything else. Fantastic. But if you've heard him speak, it was kind of the same
00:42:43.040 thing. Mike Benz, uh, another great guy, very intelligent, uh, but kind of gave the same speech
00:42:48.260 he always gives about, uh, you know, surveillance and the deep state and everything else. So not,
00:42:53.400 not a lot of, not a lot of ground broken there. Uh, there was also then a great panel, uh,
00:42:59.380 in the next one, uh, with, uh, Jonathan Kieberman, who's been on this, uh, this channel and, uh,
00:43:05.760 they were talking about, uh, art, uh, always, I think a very important, uh, aspect of this,
00:43:11.240 you know, what, what are we creating? How are we, uh, encouraging right-wing art and artists? How
00:43:16.000 can we create patronage? How can we rethink our way, uh, through producing the type of culture that we
00:43:21.960 need? Uh, you know, those are important discussions. Uh, they very rarely happen on the right. So I'm
00:43:27.360 glad, uh, they were given a voice. I don't know if there was a, a whole lot of groundbreaking there,
00:43:33.500 but like all very important discussions that I think that they need to take place. They, they hit
00:43:37.440 different aspects of, of, you know, architecture and writing and all kinds of other stuff. So it was,
00:43:42.960 it was good to see that. And then finally, uh, the, the last, uh, kind of panel, uh, on that one
00:43:48.640 was about overturning Obergefell, which to be fair, very spicy issue for them to just be out there
00:43:56.340 discussing, right? Like a lot of, uh, Republicans are still shaky on the idea of overturning gay
00:44:02.620 marriage, even though, you know, it's something I opposed the entire time. They've, they've quickly
00:44:07.180 become enamored with it, uh, probably cause all of their staff is gay. Uh, and so, uh, you know,
00:44:12.260 this was, uh, to be fair, a relatively spicy topic for a conference of this size. Uh, and, and the,
00:44:18.660 you know, interestingly and not interestingly, everyone on the panel was pretty much pro getting rid of a
00:44:24.500 Bergerfeld. It was just kind of how and why, uh, which is great. You know, it's great to have
00:44:29.660 that, that, that level of consensus on such an important issue. But, uh, it, again, it kind of,
00:44:35.620 uh, there's, there's no contention there, right? There's no debate. There's, we're not working
00:44:38.800 anything out where we're all just kind of being like overturn it. Yes. Overturn it. Yes. Right.
00:44:44.960 It's like, kind of like my panel, my panel was great. Uh, I loved a lot of guys on there. Uh, but we
00:44:49.320 were all just kind of agreeing with each other, which is good. You know, we all kind of brought different
00:44:52.620 parts of the elephant, but, uh, it does, it does make the questions of the audience and kind of
00:44:58.000 the interactions less exciting when everyone's kind of within, you know, one standard deviation
00:45:02.860 of their opinion on that one. Now, unfortunately I had to leave on day three, the way that my schedule
00:45:10.700 worked, I had to fly out. So I didn't really get to see, uh, any of the presentations that day. I've
00:45:15.540 watched a little bit from clips online, uh, but I have not gone back and gotten to, uh, experience all of
00:45:21.260 those. Uh, that said, uh, I know Jack Pazovic put out a good speech. Uh, I know that, uh, Steve
00:45:27.640 Bannon, even though he did kind of the, well, the dims of the real racist thing overall, uh, good,
00:45:33.400 good remarks. Uh, but, uh, I did not get to see all of those, so I can't really comment on them.
00:45:38.640 So I guess my, my, my final summation of this would be, I think that con is still a good event.
00:45:46.160 I think it's a necessary event. I think it's still an influential movement that is driving policy and
00:45:51.860 personnel inside the United States. I think it's valuable to have these kinds of conferences
00:45:57.140 because it allows people to get together and network and all these things. It also allows
00:46:00.460 us to work out these issues. Like I said, the, you know, the Iran Israel war panel was quite the
00:46:05.820 knockdown drag out. Right. So, um, you know, were some of these too tame? Yes, I think so. But did
00:46:11.700 they avoid all the spicy stuff? Did they force out all the people who disagreed with them? No,
00:46:16.800 not necessarily. I would honestly like to see, uh, people, a few more people from kind of the right
00:46:24.440 wing fringe in there. You know, uh, some people will consider me, you know, uh, the right wing
00:46:28.700 fringe and then, you know, but it would be nice if there were some people who were even further out
00:46:35.300 there who were brought into some of these panels to represent that aspect. I know that Hazoni is,
00:46:41.700 talked about how he's scared of people with certain opinions being led in, you know, uh, if you've
00:46:46.780 got some blood and soil types or something, you have to be worried about it, but you know, you don't
00:46:50.260 have to worry about it for Israel. I don't understand why you can't at least have someone voice that
00:46:53.820 opinion, even if you disagree with it. Uh, but anyway, the point being is ultimately, I think
00:46:59.140 they need to bring in a few of those people to spice it up to, to, to circulate some more interest
00:47:05.520 into it, to have a little more contention. Not that you want every panel to be like a full blown
00:47:10.600 angry screaming match or anything, but you know, you, you need to bring in some people
00:47:15.340 who disagree with what's going on there. And the moderates kind of got scared away from
00:47:19.740 NatCon because it's, it's too far right for them. It's not their crowd. They're not going
00:47:23.100 to get, they don't have the arguments and they're not going to get the support of the
00:47:26.240 audience. But at the same time, you know, you've kind of had the people who are too far
00:47:30.700 out there and they're not there either. And so NatCon is a, is an interesting place because
00:47:34.360 it's kind of everyone who is to the farthest right, you can kind of be inside the acceptable
00:47:39.940 Overton window, which is still honestly not super far right. And so I think it would be
00:47:45.600 interesting to introduce a few more, uh, people in that, uh, in that vein. And I hope they do,
00:47:51.720 because I think if, if NatCon is going to be relevant, the American conservatism is going to
00:47:57.560 stay relevant if for no other reason than to propel guys like JD Vance, uh, and a number of,
00:48:02.160 of other, uh, figures and, and policies and things into the popular zeitgeist and into positions of
00:48:07.220 power. So even if it ends, if this is the last NatCon, it will still have made a significant
00:48:11.380 contribution and it will still have had significant sway. And I'm sure the networks built there,
00:48:16.080 the connections built there will continue to be something important. However, uh, ultimately,
00:48:21.600 um, if it wants to continue to stay relevant, if it still wants to be driving the conversation,
00:48:26.200 if it still wants to be, uh, the place where people are hashing these things out,
00:48:30.140 it has to bring some more people in with, with different opinions that it can't be scared of
00:48:34.580 them. Uh, and it needs to be willing to, to have those discussions and have those debates. Like I
00:48:38.920 said, you know, they already had probably the, the, you know, the biggest one, the, the, the Israel
00:48:43.540 and Iran question, uh, at a big debate. So it's not like they completely shut them off, but I just
00:48:48.420 think they should court, uh, some more people like Kurt, um, and bring them in to the mix. Cause I think
00:48:54.740 that would help, help boost the credibility that this is a place where the actual conversations are
00:48:59.960 taking place. And this is not a carefully curated place, uh, where only certain positions are allowed
00:49:06.000 or discussed. I'm not saying it is now, but I'm saying it could be trending that way. If it,
00:49:10.140 if it doesn't add more people in who are willing to kind of address those issues. All right. Uh,
00:49:16.260 one other thing I wanted to get through just cause it's really, really funny before we, uh, let me
00:49:21.260 share this real quick before we get going. So today on Twitter, sorry, I know this is just like
00:49:27.480 all Twitter story. Uh, but, uh, but, uh, it's, it's too funny not to discuss. So, uh, this account,
00:49:33.860 uh, the Aesthetica account, uh, noticed a funny thing today. Now, I don't know if you remember this,
00:49:39.640 uh, but a few months ago there was this big, uh, you know, scandal because it was very clear that
00:49:45.740 several can big conservative influence had been paid by big soda to put out, uh, different tweets
00:49:53.700 complaining about the fact that food stamps were not going to pay for soda anymore. And it was so
00:49:58.800 weird. It was so obvious because like conservatives are very anti, uh, food stamps, anti-welfare in
00:50:06.420 general. Uh, there's the whole like Maha movement and kind of seed oil stuff, like all the ultra health
00:50:12.940 guys on the right, they oppose soda. So like, this is not a position that's native to any of the
00:50:18.240 conservative audience. This is as awkward as putting, uh, a, a troon on the side of your
00:50:22.940 Budweiser can. And so the fact that this all kind of started showing up simultaneously made it very
00:50:28.400 clear that like, these guys had been paid to push this narrative, uh, and, you know, blew up for a
00:50:34.260 second, but then kind of everyone just moved on and it was a big deal made. And, you know, well today
00:50:39.820 or yesterday, it started becoming very clear that like some really big accounts, some very large
00:50:46.500 influential Twitter accounts all simultaneously started talking about how like, look guys, China's
00:50:51.340 really our enemy and India is our true ally. They're not the enemy. Why is everyone suddenly
00:50:56.620 against Indian immigration? Why are they against the H1Bs? Why are they against just having infinite
00:51:01.720 Indians in the country? Why are they against having Indians taking over trucking and, and hotels and,
00:51:07.520 uh, liquor stores and, uh, tech industry? Like, why is this happening? And the reason that this push
00:51:15.260 started to occur is that Trump has been in, uh, you know, discussions with India because he wants
00:51:21.740 them to stop buying Russian oil. He's like, look, I need Russia to end this war. And the only way
00:51:26.580 they're going to end this war is if they need relations with us, us, us again, and they're not
00:51:30.420 going to need relations with us again, as long as they can sell the oil to a billion people in India,
00:51:34.440 but India, well, it has a billion people. It needs cheap oil. So it's like, well, I know we're supposed
00:51:39.100 to be your ally, but no, we're, we're working with Russia on this. And so Trump has been talking
00:51:44.100 about sanctions and now, and I really hope he does this. Trump has been talking about ending
00:51:50.960 it access or tech tech access to Indian H1B workers at all, making it illegal to, uh, basically
00:51:59.160 offshore, uh, American jobs and possibly ending the H1B stuff as well. Probably more of the
00:52:04.300 offshoring than the H1B, but still like completely, uh, cutting off the ability of American firms,
00:52:09.480 uh, to, to do this again, it's all kind of in discussions now, nothing's firm, but obviously
00:52:14.960 this would be amazing. And it's exactly what should happen. Uh, but obviously this has India
00:52:19.260 in a panic because all of a sudden, uh, you know, the, the, their relations with the United
00:52:23.540 States, their, their, their reputation in the U S has kind of taken a big hit. Uh, especially
00:52:28.980 when, you know, like 2 million Indians send millions of dollars to a guy who killed, uh, three
00:52:35.120 people in America, just because he happens to be from their country. Uh, you know, that
00:52:39.180 when people see behavior like that, it really destroys the public reputation of India. And
00:52:44.240 so they're panicking. And so we see a lot of these large accounts suddenly posting this
00:52:48.440 stuff about, well, you know, India is not really a problem and China's the problem. And
00:52:53.340 it becomes very clear that there's, you know, at least a dozen of these guys. Now the accusations
00:52:58.320 that they're being paid, we don't have proof of that yet, but we can defer it pretty heavily,
00:53:03.880 right. From what's going on here. It's all allegations. You know, none of these people
00:53:08.000 have been in, none of it's been proven that they're on the take. However, uh, it seems
00:53:13.400 pretty clear that there's something going on. And the fact that this is a repeated problem
00:53:18.900 with a conservative kind of commentary sphere, especially in these like large kind of big
00:53:24.260 alert, alert, uh, breaking news kind of slop accounts. Uh, the guys who are out there posting
00:53:29.340 like Trump AI movies and that kind of stuff. Do you support Trump?
00:53:33.700 That kind of, those kinds of posts. Yes, no hit, you know, follow me by this thing.
00:53:37.820 Like those kinds of accounts are suddenly, uh, shilling, uh, India. Uh, that's very concerning
00:53:43.760 because that means that there's a high level possibly of foreign investment is already bad
00:53:49.120 enough when it was just like corporations, but foreign investment into the mag sphere,
00:53:53.180 pushing, uh, this propaganda. And so it's insane. Uh, I think that Elon needs to take a serious
00:53:59.600 look into it. I think that, uh, if these people are taking money from foreign governments,
00:54:03.620 obviously they have to be registering. Uh, so we, we should be seeing that, right? So
00:54:09.580 there could be actual charges involved possibly again, all allegations, nothing proven. Uh,
00:54:15.600 but you know, this is a big issue. You can't have these guys selling their loyalty to their
00:54:21.420 millions of followers to like random, you know, foreign countries for money like that, that you can't
00:54:27.620 allow that to happen. And, and the sad thing is that a lot of these guys just didn't acknowledge
00:54:31.880 it. They continue to post. It was just going to post through it. Not even know some of them were
00:54:35.660 even cheering on the fact that Indian tech workers weren't going to get to steal American jobs today
00:54:39.860 after literally shilling for India yesterday. Uh, I'll, I'll just kind of hoping that if they post
00:54:45.400 through it and they jump on the next bandwagon, everyone will forget. And sadly, they're probably
00:54:50.000 right. Like a lot of these guys will probably survive the scandal just because people don't pay
00:54:56.000 attention. So, you know, you kind of expect these posts from, you know, uh, uh, uh, people like
00:55:02.680 Nikki Haley, you know, cause they're, they're ethnic allegiances. Uh, but the fact that, uh, mainstream
00:55:07.700 big, uh, MAGA accounts are throwing this stuff around possibly at, you know, after getting kind
00:55:13.520 of foreign pay masters, not great, not great. And, uh, you really hope that, uh, there's going to be
00:55:18.440 consequences for that. All right, guys. Well, let's head to, uh, let's head to the questions of the
00:55:25.840 people here real quick. Philosophical thirst worm says, you're, I'm saying our people are on the
00:55:32.760 inside. Who's people, you're, who's people. Uh, yeah. I mean, obviously, uh, the fact that,
00:55:39.280 uh, he is an Israeli national who's organizing this thing is always going to have questions for
00:55:43.760 people. I totally understand that. Uh, like I said, I think that the fact that the debate over
00:55:50.240 Israel, uh, happened that a guy like Kurt is on stage at one of these events is a big step,
00:55:54.620 but if they want to maintain credibility, we have to see more of this. You got to see more
00:55:59.180 of this because if you don't, then people aren't going to trust the movement. They're not going to
00:56:02.280 trust, uh, it, you know, the, the people elevated by it. Uh, and so, uh, I, I think that having a
00:56:08.940 conference night like NatCon is important. I think it's good that, uh, Hazoni is putting it on.
00:56:15.020 Let's be clear. No Republicans were putting this kind of stuff on, you know, no conservative
00:56:20.060 groups were hosting people like Paul Gottfried or me. So, you know, you can say what you want
00:56:26.940 about, uh, you know, their motivations, but they're hosting, you know, Paul Gottfried got
00:56:30.880 frozen out of the conservative movement for generations because he was too toxic, uh, too
00:56:36.000 dangerous to have on stage. And now he's speaking at these events regularly. You know, his access to
00:56:41.700 these major institutions has been rehabilitated largely through organizations like NatCon. So, uh,
00:56:48.100 I don't think it's all just censorship and, and, and control and, uh, you know, uh, you know,
00:56:54.220 freezing the window, uh, controlling the opposition, but I think if they are going to
00:57:00.160 maintain relevancy, like I said, you do need to see a wider opinion. You do need to see
00:57:03.860 more contentious panels, more people, uh, who, you know, you, you don't need the most insane people
00:57:10.040 out there, but more people who, uh, would have had an overt disagreement, uh, on panels probably
00:57:15.340 would have been helpful. Not again, that we need to have knocked down, drag out screaming
00:57:19.280 matches or, you know, we needed, we still want it to be a high level discussion, but you
00:57:23.260 know, at the very least something like what Curt and Max had, uh, would have been advantageous
00:57:29.480 on multiple panels. Let's see there. I'm just going to say Mr. Theod, since I get it wrong
00:57:39.020 every time, uh, he says, I hate to keep harping on him, but remember Lindsay's schizoid rant about
00:57:44.100 Trump posting Mark Angel, uh, St. Michael's prayer. How does anyone, uh, how is, how does
00:57:50.460 anyone, oh, he's mistyped, but how does anyone keep taking him seriously? Well, uh, I don't want
00:57:55.880 to spend a lot of time on this again. Like I, you know, I've kind of said my piece, but like
00:57:59.480 I saw a video recently about him talking about how he's just like persona non grata in the
00:58:04.360 administration and he's losing all of his money because no one will pay him speaking fees
00:58:08.340 to go anywhere anymore. And well, you know, like I think he's just kind of made himself
00:58:12.820 irrelevant. Like he, he insulted 90% of like the right. And it turns out they don't want
00:58:18.480 to pay him to like, come tell him how much he hates them. So it seems like James has kind
00:58:24.740 of taken care of himself. Like, I think he's just kind of made himself so toxic and disagreeable
00:58:30.800 and unwanted in the conservative movement that there's still, yeah, there's still a few,
00:58:34.740 the Babylon B guys are still, you know, championing a new atheist who hates Catholics, but whatever.
00:58:39.460 Or like, um, you know, outside of a few friends he has, for the most part, it sounds like,
00:58:45.200 you know, has more or less made himself irrelevant. And I guess actions have consequences, I guess.
00:58:51.920 Uh, wild speaker says the old guard needs to understand the off ramp. That is the,
00:58:57.460 the woke reg represents the zoomer waffle won't be as moderate. Yeah. I keep telling these people,
00:59:01.580 man. Uh, if you think, if you think I'm dangerous, if you think I'm, I'm, I'm the worst option,
00:59:06.040 trust me, I am, I am a fluffy teddy bear compared to what is coming. Okay. Like you, you really want
00:59:13.100 to solve these problems. Now you really want to come to the table. Now you really want to have
00:59:17.380 these conversations now, because if you try to suppress this for another generation, Oh buddy.
00:59:21.640 Yeah. The, the zoomers who are Cato interns asking about the USS Liberty, those guys are going to have
00:59:27.280 no chill. You think Candace Owens looks, uh, extreme Tucker Carlson? Oh no, nothing yet.
00:59:34.900 Nothing yet, baby. So yeah, I would figure this stuff out now because if you don't consequences
00:59:40.440 are going to be, uh, stiff. Uh, based hillbilly says I'm a northerner that practically grew up in
00:59:46.940 a black neighborhood. So dims are the real racist has always been observable to me. They don't want
00:59:51.720 blacks to assimilate or form families. Am I wrong? Well, so I hear what you're saying. And yeah,
00:59:59.200 I would say that ultimately, uh, liberals do not have the best interests of any given minority in
01:00:08.520 mind. That's true. However, when we say are the real racist, we're appropriating a term from the left
01:00:15.140 that they own and they control. And especially when we work in this language of the Dixiecrats in the
01:00:20.960 South and it's the same people, well, that's obviously a, just not true. And B, uh, we're,
01:00:26.520 we're basically announcing that it's only if the South that we can attack, they're not attacking
01:00:30.460 northerners. They're not saying, Oh, these liberals in the, you know, in New York or whatever. And
01:00:35.140 they, you know, no, they're, they're working attacks on Southerners into this language. And so I see what
01:00:41.060 you're saying. And yeah, I agree. Ultimately the left isn't like super concerned with the wellbeing of,
01:00:46.500 of a lot of these groups. They just kind of fawn it for power. Uh, but to be clear, like,
01:00:50.680 you know, these groups are getting patronage out of the democratic party. They're still voting for
01:00:55.260 them for a reason. The black vote is 90% for the Democrats because they know that's where the
01:01:01.800 money comes from. So like, even if the Democrats kind of like ultimately are like hating these people
01:01:07.060 or, you know, uh, aren't big fans of them, uh, there are the ones who are distributing money to
01:01:12.020 them. They are the ones who are giving them positions of power. They are the ones who are holding
01:01:16.440 down, uh, for instance, wider Asian people in order to elevate them. Uh, and so, yeah, maybe,
01:01:22.640 maybe they are like not the kindest, maybe they don't have the truth in their hearts, but practically
01:01:26.900 they know they are working on behalf of these minorities pretty explicitly. Uh, you know,
01:01:32.000 there's a reason that, you know, all, all of these, uh, Somali politicians are Democrats who are saying,
01:01:38.300 Oh, I'm working for Somalia. Well, yes, they're in, they're doing it under the democratic
01:01:41.800 batter. So are they the real racist? I mean, they are like, they hate white people in that sense,
01:01:47.540 but, but we kind of know what that phrase means. And, uh, so I don't think the, the right should
01:01:52.240 be deploying it. I don't think Republicans should be deploying it from the stage. I think it's just
01:01:55.960 a foolish way to, even though your point is well taken, I think ultimately, uh, for rhetorical
01:02:01.620 purposes, it is not helpful. Matt Greer says it's really disappointing how shameless and for sale,
01:02:07.260 many of the right wing big accounts are. Yeah. I mean, I, I, it's not good. It's not a good way
01:02:12.720 to conduct yourself. And, you know, look, I've, I've been approached not by a foreign government,
01:02:16.960 but I've been approached, uh, to like, you know, with like native advertising, Hey, uh, if you talk
01:02:22.060 about this on your Twitter, we'll pay you money. Uh, and you know, but you can't tell anyone that we,
01:02:26.780 you know, paid you to do it. The whole point is to make it look like you just kind of discovered
01:02:29.800 this thing. My answer was no, you know, I just don't like that type of advertising. Uh, I think it's
01:02:35.040 dishonest. I think it, uh, destroys your reputation and I, I, you know, I wouldn't participate it for
01:02:40.760 an American company. So I'm certainly not going to participate it in it for foreigners. Uh, and the
01:02:45.220 fact that so many people on the right seem to be willing to do so is, uh, very concerning.
01:02:50.660 Uh, Joe McDermott says it was just reported that Jason Miller was paid 150 per month to shill for
01:02:55.660 India. Yeah. Not great. Right. Really bad. Uh, so I don't know what else to say to that. Then we need
01:03:02.300 to remove foreign influence. I don't understand why any foreign government is allowed to pay anyone
01:03:07.280 inside our country to have any level of influence, even countries. I like there are countries. I like
01:03:12.080 that pay, you know, that are paying conservative influencers. And I don't like that either. Like,
01:03:17.520 I don't think you should in any way, shape or form be allowed to spend money as a foreign country to get
01:03:23.620 people to work for your interests. Like I don't want them registered. I want it banned. Should be
01:03:27.820 completely banned. I don't understand why we're allowing it at all. Well, speaker says Tulsi and
01:03:32.800 cash, uh, need to stop fishing in the Rubicon and start arresting these people. You're in, you're
01:03:37.560 in a power struggle. Act like it. Yeah, totally agree. Again, that was my problem with Tulsi speech.
01:03:42.260 Not that, you know, I love what she's done so far. I love what she's uncovered, killing it in the role
01:03:46.540 compared to others, but you know, we're in a certain place now and we need to start seeing people go to
01:03:51.580 jail. And so I was really hoping that was the kind of announcement we were going to get. And it's great to
01:03:55.820 get the same update that we've gotten 10 times, but like it, and I approve of what you've done so
01:03:59.840 far. Uh, but it's time to move forward and make the real things happen. All right, guys, we're going
01:04:04.660 to go ahead and wrap this up as always. If it's your first time on YouTube, you need to click
01:04:08.520 subscribe bell notifications, all this stuff. So, you know, when we go live, if you want to get
01:04:12.700 these broadcasts as podcasts, you need to subscribe to our Macintyre show on your favorite podcast
01:04:16.420 platform. If you do leave a rating or review, it really helps with the algorithm magic. If you want to pick
01:04:21.460 up a copy of the book, the total state, remember it's at Amazon Barnes and Noble books a million.
01:04:26.760 And of course, if you'd like to support the show, make sure you head over to blaze tv.com
01:04:30.740 slash Oren and subscribe to the blaze. Thank you everybody for watching. And as always,
01:04:34.500 I'll talk to you next time.