Gio of The Gulag Archipelago joins me to talk about The Young Turks and the recent departure of Anna Kasparian from the left-wing site The Daily Wire. We talk about what happened, why it happened, and what we can do about it.
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00:00:30.000Hey, everybody. Thanks for joining me this afternoon.
00:00:32.780I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.
00:00:37.340So this is going to be a little bit of a throwback for people who haven't been extremely online for a very long time.
00:00:43.900Who aren't familiar with the right-wing discourse and Gamergate and the battle against the social justice warriors and all of that deep lore.
00:00:52.940You might not be familiar with the Young Turks.
00:01:12.980Yeah, they're this online super progressive outlet and they've always kind of had this really cartoonish dynamic between kind of the two main hosts, Cenk Uygur and Anna Kasparian.
00:01:27.540Lots of good lolcow moments, many, many great reaction videos in kind of the skeptic sphere and others.
00:09:39.640So, TYT was integral to this political thing.
00:09:43.400But I think, see, me and Prudentialist talk about this a lot.
00:09:47.200You know, when I'm not doing content mind of my own show and Prudentialist isn't doing through observations, you know, we come together once a week.
00:09:53.080We talk about the often forgotten intraperiod between the Bush administration and Obama.
00:10:02.440This is where political discourse really gets cemented when it comes to the Internet age.
00:10:11.340Now, there was like, OK, so this debate around the trans thing, right?
00:10:16.580OK, my theory going into this when you propose the stream is that they're selectively pulling back before they could fully normalize the true social policy.
00:10:27.820Now, there are a number of conservatives, more paleocons, and some who weren't paleocons back in the Bush years, going into Obama years, that saw the same thing with certain moderate voices on the left.
00:10:41.080And I don't know, maybe it's imprudent to bring up your boss, but to give him credit, Glenn Beck actually did predict this back in the day, by recall, that when it came to the debate around gay marriage, there were leftists, like not leftists, but there were like left liberals that were selectively pulling back when it came to legislation that said, maybe we're going too far.
00:11:01.540And of course, there were chastised in radical circles because, as you know, the radical nature of certain, you know, cauldrons or let's call them secular madrasas of political thought on the left, they then become normalized after time.
00:11:16.440But the way you do this is by pulling back very briefly so conservatives can like lower their guard and then you start to normalize it through the culture and then you bring in legislation.
00:11:28.480So this happened during the Bush years with gay marriage, what happened under Obama, by the stroke of the pen, gay marriage was legalized.
00:11:35.720Now conservatives like at the National Review come in and say the debate is over.
00:11:41.200The conservative case for gay marriage, because don't you know, they want to be as unhappy as everyone else who's married, blah, blah, blah.
00:11:47.980So I think people don't realize that this debate sort of in a different way, but in a similar way happened already.
00:11:54.720And TYT was on their ascendancy at this time.
00:11:57.260So there were conservatives, I believe in Pat Buchanan that predicted this, like don't trust these people on the political left that say that, well, I'm a moderate.
00:12:04.720We shouldn't push this on people who are Christians that don't blah, blah, blah.
00:12:32.100There is an inherent eroticism to all politics.
00:12:35.720OK, there is a sort of a libidinal nature to them.
00:12:40.180So people enact out their libidos through the political.
00:12:46.640So, for example, this happens again and again in the political right.
00:12:50.480When you have an ex, quote unquote, ex leftist who is like, you know, somewhat attractive, there tends to be this thing of like, well, she's my base mommy.
00:13:00.300That's like, you know, she sees through the contradictions of the left and the cycle repeats.
00:13:06.720And of course, they really don't because the slightest pushback from the right, as you know, leads to disastrous results.
00:13:14.200This happened with the rad fems with a select few ones who are cool, like, you know, Mary Harrington and so forth.
00:13:20.900But there is a moment in the 2010s when it came to, like, the red brown alliance and people were talking about this and there's this big tent.
00:13:29.440But really, like, that all dissipated because these people, like, you have to realize that the real hot take here is that the right wing or even just conservatives in general, especially in North America, suffer this crisis of the optics of legitimacy.
00:13:48.100So when an ex leftist, especially a mildly attractive ex leftist, you know, not really ex left, like, you know, listen, all left, no ex, right?
00:13:58.360You know, you know, all rad fem, never mind, never mind.
00:14:03.200So the point being is that there is a crisis of the perception of legitimacy when it comes to various right wing and conservative ideas.
00:14:13.180So when it comes out of the mouth of babes of a quote unquote ex leftist, then it carries with it the weight of legitimacy more.
00:14:24.580Some for some crazy reason by the by, you know, people that are in the know, quote unquote, like Annika Sperry.
00:14:32.880So I think it comes down to the fact that the right acknowledges that in terms of like institutional power or the perception of legitimacy of various thinkers on the right.
00:14:43.260Um, we're like, well, we're not, we're, we're an outlaw mud show to use a wrestling term.
00:15:02.660We're not the legitimate, you know, real, uh, sports entertainment.
00:15:06.240So when it comes down to it, I think the reason that a lot of people that find not even like a huge, but like a momentary disenfranchisement with political left is the reason they're received.
00:15:19.420So, you know, so with arms wide open, so graciously by the political right, I wouldn't say all the political right.
00:15:27.240I would say mostly the punditry class is because there is this perception that, well, if we can get them on their side or our, sorry, on our side, and we really don't have any legitimate thinkers of our own, we really don't have any legitimate institutions of our own.
00:15:45.600But I would, not to say that this is planned though.
00:15:48.280Of course, I'm not saying this is a conspiracy, but I wouldn't put it past this being a way to strategically ratchet down.
00:15:57.240The excesses of social policy, especially in North America, especially around things like trans stuff when it comes to children, that there's a selective ratcheting down temporarily until it can then be normalized because this happened with gay marriage.
00:16:15.660And there are people like Pat Buchanan, um, that called it out perfectly, that don't trust these moderate people that go on meet the depress.
00:16:22.860That's, that's a Michael Savage term, meet the depress.
00:16:25.660And, you know, say that, well, actually, I, I personally believe in gay marriage.
00:16:32.040But when it comes to legislation that would, you know, it would anger these like so powerful religious right people that is apparently still have power.
00:16:41.440Um, then it's like, you know, you know what's going to happen.
00:16:45.480But I, I wouldn't, I would think that there will be certain people in the political left.
00:16:50.640Now, what I, before I, I'm rambling right now, but the one hot take I would think when you were reading that thread that you put out is that that first tweet, notice the language.
00:17:01.480I don't want to be known as a uterus, which is a legitimate criticism.
00:17:05.900And, you know, the thing is for all of the flaws of feminism, I think feminism is a very complicated subject.
00:17:11.940And of course, or, and you brought me on is the, you know, the, the number one, a woman respecter on the right.
00:17:17.380So, you know, as, as destructive and as mondacious and as, you know, very harmful, a lot of the excess of feminist ideology is.
00:17:24.700I think that when you look at this sort of transformation of society and you look at the place of it, it's a very complicated history because in some ways, and this isn't my take, this is my good friend, Nightmare Vision's take that, uh, he said this at Night Owls that, you know, feminism really led the way in terms of social activism before there was the LGBTQ plus I, I, I, you know, in Canada, I have to be aware, cause I'm in Canada.
00:17:46.080I have to say the full thing now, according to Justin Trudeau.
00:17:49.300Before or after the land acknowledgement.
00:17:51.880I acknowledge that I am on stolen land.
00:17:54.180I am on Iroquois land right now, you know, but Joe, I don't want any Mounties breaking in and stealing you in the middle of this interview.
00:18:08.220So, um, no, so feminism really in terms of the regime of signs of how you do social political activism, the motifs of it, it was number one for a reason.
00:18:19.880Because of course, women, not only are, you know, half the population, but also women were selectively, uh, that like way back, I would say even a hundred years ago in the beginning of the suffrage movement, certain upper class, you know, women had.
00:18:34.240And a degree of political agency, at least in terms of influencing social policy and social life.
00:18:40.300And there's a lot of critique within academia about, um, you know, how like a certain form of like bourgeois white girl feminism.
00:18:49.220Like that's evil because it's still constitutes heteronormativity and so forth.
00:18:55.540And I think like the bashing of white women as well as sort of like, you know, it's, I understand in terms, but when you look at voting patterns, of course, in America, this isn't true.
00:19:04.920I mean, white women who were married voted for Trump overwhelmingly.
00:19:07.800So like, I think that the right plays into a lot of that manosphere discourse about bashing white women.
00:19:13.540That's kind of like, not the point, but that's besides the point.
00:19:17.140Notice how she used the language of uterus and reproduction.
00:19:21.220Now, Anna Kasparian is like an old school rad fan, at least in part, you know?
00:19:26.020So that language around the reproductive system of women to her, that robs her of her agency, because that's really like, it's the typical like trans exclusive radical feminist viewpoint of you're lowering the woman to reproduction,
00:19:41.540which is just the same as those evil conservative right wing religious reactionaries that want to lower the place of women as basically a baby making factory.
00:19:51.060So I think like her being like of an older school of rad femme, she finds that language very alienating because it reminds her of like the sort of, you know, biological function of women, which I mean, you could say in one light is a legitimate critique.
00:20:05.060But in another light, it's, it's sort of like, I'm pushing back on the trans stuff, but when it comes to everything else, though, I mean, yes, the right is evil.
00:20:14.160You have to remember that, you know, I was going to say, no, I shouldn't say it.
00:20:17.780A friend of the show, Annika Chine, Annika Sperian, no, no, don't mix the two, don't mix the two.
00:20:22.540Annika Sperian, on the eve of Trump's election, were you watching, Oren?
00:20:28.840She said, if you, for YouTube purposes, I'm not going to say it, but she said more or less, if you're a Trump voter, that you should sunset yourself, right?
00:20:39.780But I think like to wrap this all up, Oren, this long rant, there is a libidinal nature to right wing and even left wing politics.
00:20:48.240The trans stuff is full of, I mean, that's probably YouTube unfriendly to talk about it, but you had this great stream with Prudentialist where you were trying to like dance around it.
00:20:56.460It was very funny, but no, I think like when it comes specifically to a lot of the, and I know, listen, I'm not saying all right wingers.
00:21:04.160There's a lot of right wing people have called this out.
00:21:06.040I'm saying the punditry class of conservatives that are writing these think pieces about Annika Sperian.
00:21:11.780There's something of like the sort of like Fox News anchor effect where it's like, I'm attracted to this exotic other because, you know, she's Arminian and she's, you know, a leftist.
00:21:23.480And it's like, ooh, a leftist woman who's mildly attractive is paying attention to me.
00:21:28.480It's like this very weird like punditry class obsession they have that comes down to like libidinal politics, in my opinion.
00:21:35.600And a lot of people in the right wing, the frogs, I know have like said, well, we've seen this before.
00:21:40.860If you've been around this discourse, you've seen this.
00:21:43.620And it's like, it's so apparent what they're trying to do, that they're either they're securing another grift or it's like the Tulsi Gabber thing where it's like, you know, I don't like the woke stuff.
00:21:53.940I'm still on left, but like, or like even, I guess like the equivalent would be RFK Jr.
00:22:00.460Now I know what's your opinion is, RFK Jr., but it's like, I, I, I have a huge grain of salt when it comes to like libidist leftist politician.
00:22:08.380That's like, you know, talking about my heck and wholesome working class.
00:22:13.720I think if it's not conscious subversion, because again, I wouldn't put out those conspiracies.
00:22:19.300There is at least in part a sort of I'm trying to play to a different audience that is disenfranchised because maybe when it comes to the greater view of the empire,
00:22:29.160like I mentioned in that tweet below your tweet thread, if things are going really bad with certain geopolitical excursions of the empire in Eastern Europe,
00:22:40.000in particular, if you know the one, I wouldn't put it past a lot of people within the State Department elsewhere to say, well, you know,
00:22:48.380the Chuds, the Mind Chuds, the right wing Chuds, the Magatards, they're the ones who are like the Katria, you know, warrior caste in America still.
00:22:57.900So if they're not going to go along with it, we're pretty much screwed because, I mean, I know that the left has their own choice.
00:23:03.560Appalachia isn't exactly signing up for the military the way they used to.
00:23:08.360So I think if they try to consciously not alienate them as hardcore as they did during the Obama years, certainly during the Trump years, there's probably something to it.
00:23:20.920No, I think there's a lot of really good points in there to kind of pull apart.
00:23:24.360The first thing I would say is I think you're absolutely right about kind of a lock-in phase, right?
00:23:29.300Both academic agent and I have talked about how many of the biggest gains of the left actually happen while the right is in power, right?
00:23:39.340Like that's when, like you said, the conservatives let down their guard, a lot of things get normalized, and then when the left comes back into power, basically there's no defense up and they just run rough shot over a lot of this.
00:23:50.620So I think there's a couple different things going on.
00:23:53.180Like first, I don't think this particular, though you might be right that in general they're trying to ratchet some of this stuff down.
00:23:59.400I don't think in particular Anna's stuff is particularly manufactured.
00:24:06.120I think she really does believe it and find herself in this scenario because, you know, I put out a piece called The Neocon Cycle, and she's just kind of following every step of the Neocon Cycle.
00:24:17.000Well, you know, she had a certain position in the revolution.
00:24:20.260She thought that was the vanguard tip of the spear of the revolution.
00:24:25.220Once the revolution moved past that goal, all of a sudden she's in a scenario where she's still fighting for the last version of progressivism.
00:24:35.000You know, she's still, where's my economic progressivism?
00:24:38.600Where's my Bernie Sanders progressivism?
00:24:51.780At that point, the answer is, like, either you can just knuckle under and stay with the movement and go to the next thing, or you can stand on principle, at least to some extent, and get chipped off the block, right?
00:25:04.640Like, you can just get kind of thrown in the trash there.
00:25:06.800And so I think that, and a lot of right-wingers don't understand this.
00:25:12.120They're like, oh, the left eats its own.
00:25:18.280No, this is a key part of the process.
00:25:20.180Like, the left is shaving off anybody who isn't 100% malleable, who isn't 100% willing to go into the revolution wherever they take it, right?
00:25:29.740And so if you – one of the ways you can know that the gains are being locked in, the ratchet is being locked in, is people like Anna fall off.
00:25:40.840That's how you know, is because actually these people can no longer stay with the revolution.
00:25:51.160The other thing is that this pays a key part of the process in containing the right, because as these people fall off, as you noted, the right wants to pick them up.
00:26:17.820They don't have all the low status opinions and low status markers that are attached to all the right wingers.
00:26:24.620And so they think if we can just capture this high status person, this person who was part of the revolution and had an audience, then they'll bring those people with them.
00:26:34.180And this is another part of it, because of kind of the dialectic and the nature of the democratic process, they look at this and they say, oh, well, we're winning once we get these people, right?
00:26:44.700If we can just capture these people, then we will have won the argument.
00:27:11.800And so Anna Kasparian falling off of the left is actually a critical part of building a containment for the right to make sure that the right is always shifting in the direction of people like her and away from people like Pat Buchanan, right?
00:27:29.080Who knew all this stuff was coming anyway and warned everybody.
00:27:31.980But now we're not paying attention to the religious right people from the 80s who perfectly predicted the future.
00:27:37.800And we should absolutely have been listening to the whole time.
00:27:40.440Instead, we're listening to the person who was a feminist and was on board with every part of the trans stuff until it started destroying the female identity.
00:27:48.120Obviously, you know, like these are now the prophets of the right.
00:27:51.620And this is how we end up with Caitlyn Jenner conservatism, because they think if you can just capture, you know, that's that that part of the of the movement, then you'll be able to kind of turn every victory is just one step away.
00:28:06.000And if we can just bring one of these people in, then then we've kind of solved the problem.
00:28:10.100And so that's why you see so many people jumping on top of this and trying to claim this as a victory instead of understanding like, oh, no, if you don't gatekeep against this person, they're just going to completely pull you to where the left was a few years ago.
00:28:23.480We hope you're enjoying your Air Canada flight.
00:29:10.820I know it's been long-housed already, right?
00:29:13.200So for those of you who think I'm just talking nonsense, yes, I'm not like as much of whatever stereotype.
00:29:21.760But yes, but in my heart, though, I am still a true sell in my heart.
00:29:25.500So when it comes to women, women are very complicated when it comes to the political questions between the prevailing ideologies.
00:29:31.700Because on the one hand, you do have the dilution of discourse among the political right.
00:29:37.500A lot of, you know, a lot of the frogs in particular feel that you should gatekeep them out, that they inevitably will dilute in terms of not just political ideas,
00:29:47.940but the operation, the sort of greater subtext or the images of thought of how you conduct political discourse, especially on the internet.
00:29:57.980I noticed that, you know, listen, I say this with kindness, but a lot of times it devolves into like mean girls, high school level dynamic when you let these girls in, I hate to say it.
00:30:11.080But when it comes to, I noticed they have this, like the political right, the punditry class, it's always like unwoke women.
00:30:20.780And I feel it's because there's this perception that like right-wing ideology or even nominally conservative ideology is always going to be like a sausage festival for men and that there's no place.
00:30:35.160But on the other side, if you actually examine what a lot of the feminists have written about, I believe it was Andrea Dworkin that wrote about right-wing women about like,
00:30:43.740and her explanation was, of course, very like condescending that the reason women gravitate to a certain type of women gravitate towards the right is because they want protection from the patriarchy.
00:30:54.240And so they're basically pick these, right?
00:30:55.980But I don't think that, I think that politically though, women are more complex as a quote unquote, like social policy or voting bloc.
00:31:03.340Because a lot, you know, especially family women, they have other interests that probably great with like modern progressive ideology.
00:31:11.960Trump really did upend a lot of these political categories when it came to like gender war stuff, when it came to social policy, but also the nature of the trend, like you mentioned, of the right-wing going to sleep whenever they're in power.
00:31:25.620Because the reason that that didn't happen under Trump, maybe it led to the left being even more, you know, energized than ever,
00:31:32.420was because Trump, through the sheer power of being the number one poster, and for all of his flaws, he was the number one Twitter poster, as I've said before, as many people have said.
00:31:41.460Um, every day was a state of exception, every day was an emergency, because he would tweet out like, these people are evil, these people want to take your children, you have to go after, like, he didn't say go after them, you know, like he wasn't fed posting, but yeah, and sometimes, but, you know, it really changed the nature from the old school, like, right side of the liberal spectrum of politics,
00:32:05.220especially under the Bush and the Obama years, to, like, this, like, energetic, vitalistic, reactionary politics of, like, every single day is a new issue to go after.
00:32:15.740But the role of women was very interesting in that, because, you know, like I say, I think, like, a lot of us have our predispositions, especially the political right, you know, again, I'm not saying, like, I'm a wholesome, chungus woman respecter, I'm just, I'm saying this purely as a fact that women are a lot more complex politically than we like to think, right?
00:32:33.660And yes, it is true that they're more influenced by the social, you know, the social apparatus around us than men, that's, you know, okay, fine, that's true.
00:32:41.160But I do think that, especially under Trump, there were that, there was that segment of women that didn't go along with it, and a lot of them were family women, a lot of them were married and so forth, and that's, you know, different.
00:32:52.200But when it comes to, like, the, quote-unquote, ex-leftist, like, woman, that maybe, I don't think Anna Kasparian's this, I don't know if she's, like, really cemented her grift game thus far, but, you know, there are certain ones that have, there are certain ones that sort of play up certain issues on the political right, but slowly start to drop off other ones.
00:33:15.140So, for example, a lot of the, quote-unquote, ex-woke leftists, they will say, like, you know, the trans children stuff, that's too far, that's, you know, that's the left going insane, right?
00:33:27.780The perfect eagle, the left has gone insane!
00:33:29.800But, when it comes to other very important issues, especially immigration, that's never mentioned, or rather, the discourse is selectively cropped away from other issues, right?
00:33:41.400And even when it came to the radfems, I mean, there was a significant, you know, besides the Roe court ruling, before that, you know, there was a significant ratcheting down of pro-life discourse,
00:33:53.760because you had this, like, obsession with the Red-Brown Alliance, and, you know, radfems are disenfranchised by the left, and, you know, and, hey, listen, I sympathize with them,
00:34:03.260because a lot of the radical feminists are sort of politically homeless now, because the right-wing, certainly, we have our own ideas about natural hierarchy,
00:34:11.380and the role of, you know, family life, and so forth, and the political left does not tolerate them whatsoever, because women, you know,
00:34:18.700the trans thing has demonstrated one thing, is that the older model of women, in particular, being, like, the revolutionary subject of the progressive left,
00:34:30.200They need a more pure revolutionary subject, and we know the ones that are more pure than, like, women as a whole, as a bloc.
00:34:37.260So, I think you're going to see a lot of anarchist Berians in the future.
00:34:41.560You'll see them become politically homeless before our eyes.
00:34:45.200The debate is whether the right should really welcome them with open arms.
00:34:48.700Right? I mean, that's, yeah, without saying too much.
00:34:51.420I hope I didn't offend too many women out there, but, you know, it's, yeah, yeah.
00:34:54.920No, I, you know, and obviously, like, the fact that she was specifically moved, in many ways, by the trans stuff,
00:35:03.280is particular to her being female, but we can see the cycle for multiple people, right?
00:35:10.800Many males from the left have kind of gone through this, too.
00:35:14.720So, this one is, there are unique aspects that are female, but we can see this behavior, the cycle mirrored in others.
00:35:21.900I wanted to go ahead and run down, so I did a little bit of research for the stream.
00:35:26.720Like Dave the Distributist, I decided to watch Adam and Stitch, you know, because they had Anna Kasperian on doing her, like,
00:35:36.940oh, no, yeah, I've left the left, you know, kind of dance.
00:35:40.940I didn't leave the left, the left, left me.
00:35:44.160Play the classic one more time from the top.
00:35:47.400So, I wanted to understand, because like I said, I hadn't really interacted with anything from the Young Turks in a long time.
00:35:54.280And so, I wanted to go ahead and understand kind of what the events were here.
00:35:57.300So, we'll play a clip from that in just a second, because there's a choice clip that we've got to play.
00:36:02.360But before we get that, so the background for her, like, these were the steps that she described for her not-so-red-pilled, red-pilled journey.
00:36:12.600So, the first thing was, like, the Kyle Rittenhouse case.
00:36:16.340So, it was apparently just, like, you know, all the things came out, she believed everything she heard, she was on there screaming along with Chank, you know, calling him a murder, and then, like, the video came out.
00:36:28.260And she's like, no, this kid just didn't want to die.
00:36:32.340And, like, everybody else kept telling her, no, no, he's a murderer, he killed these people.
00:36:36.220He's like, no, he clearly was about to get clubbed to death by a guy, and then, like, another guy had a gun and was getting ready to shoot him.
00:36:43.920Like, he's obviously defending his life.
00:36:46.300You can have all the debates you want about whether he should be there and blah, blah, blah.
00:36:52.260He did not just spray, you know, a gun into a crowd of, you know, black people at a protest.
00:36:58.100Like, this guy was defending himself literally against pedophiles and domestic abusers, you know, crowd full of communists, who would have guessed?
00:37:05.000Well, you know, the Rittenhouse trial was a great filter for people.
00:37:07.940Like, it was a great litmus test for a lot of people.
00:37:09.840And a lot of people failed, unfortunately, but, yeah.
00:37:11.860Yeah, but apparently that was kind of one of her first moments of breaking open.
00:37:17.100And, like, the next one is kind of these hate hoax witch hunts that keep coming up.
00:37:25.260So, I don't know if you remember, like, the bird-watching guy with the woman's dog in the park.
00:37:30.200Oh, yeah, yeah, there's a term for bird-watching.
00:37:32.760There's a technical term, but, yeah, I remember this.
00:37:34.620Yeah, yeah, so, you know, he played it up as if she was a racist for, like, calling the cops on him.
00:37:40.900But she called the cops because this guy was, like, trying, was, like, aggressively, you know, trying to get her dog to come over to him and threatening her.
00:37:49.560And, like, and so, you know, again, Kasperi went along with everything at first.
00:37:54.240But once she saw the video, she was, like, okay, no, obviously, like, this guy is harassing a woman.
00:38:10.100Yeah, yeah, yeah, the nurse who they tried to take her bike.
00:38:13.720Similar situation where she just kept seeing these things where it's, like, this is obviously not a person who went out of their way to do something racist.
00:38:20.760It's a woman being intimidated by somebody.
00:38:23.420And we're siding with the people who intimidate the woman because racism is the more important narrative than a woman being harassed.
01:13:55.340One last point I should make is that there are people that are starting to say who are a bit more contrarian.
01:14:00.020That the quote-unquote right-wing discourse, especially among the frogs, that it's being quote-unquote mainstream.
01:14:06.540And therefore, they're going to get it on the grift game.
01:14:08.960I don't see it anywhere apart from certain affectations of lifestyle choices.
01:14:13.820Apart from that, I still think that this take that political right discourse is being more normalized.
01:14:20.300In a certain sense, yes, because bigger voices are, as opposed to 10 years ago, starting to talk about things like immigration.
01:14:28.380And, you know, the populations in European and North American countries.
01:14:32.420But other than that, like, I mean, we still are largely marginalized.
01:14:36.160I mean, I think, you know, I mean, as much as people like, you know, Tucker Carlson and The Blaze, they're doing better with a lot of issues.
01:14:42.300The whole, like, analysis that there's going to be, like, pop right-wing discourse that's going to land you a solid punditry career.
01:14:50.240You know, outside of, like, the most mainstream normie con, like, national reviews.
01:15:03.200No, this whole analysis, I fundamentally disagree with.
01:15:06.320Not because I'm preserving, like, the purity of this thing of ours.
01:15:10.280But I'm just saying, like, it doesn't.
01:15:12.200I mean, even though there's more people that are gravitating towards it, there's certainly more ex-leftists.
01:15:17.860It's because, again, the left has gone insane.
01:15:20.800So the insanity of the left will par with, like, you know, a lot of these, like, former centrist pundits being, like, you know, they're doing the Dave Rubin thing of, like, well, the left left me.
01:15:52.200Love having – I had people saying, oh, yo, the Last Things episode, Gio and Last Things, every time you have those two on, they just hit a home run.
01:16:00.040So we'll have to put another one of those together as well.
01:16:03.300But make sure you're checking out all of Gio's stuff.
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