The Auron MacIntyre Show - Is the Cathedral Dying？｜ Guest： The Prudentialist ｜ 8⧸21⧸23

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00:00:30.320 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.900 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.380 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:38.060 So we've been working our way through many of the works of Nick Land.

00:00:42.900 We've been looking at a lot of his different essays and pieces

00:00:45.860 and talking about different aspects of what he has to say.

00:00:50.280 Today I want to be focused on a concept, of course,

00:00:53.200 that came originally from Curtis Yarvin,

00:00:54.900 as so many of the concepts that he discusses do.

00:00:59.060 It's, of course, the concept of the cathedral.

00:01:00.900 At this point, many of you are familiar with the concept of cathedral.

00:01:04.240 It's even been on Fox News at this point.

00:01:06.680 So, you know, your grandma might be familiar with what the cathedral means.

00:01:10.480 But, well, one of the things that Nick Land kind of looks at in this essay is,

00:01:16.060 is the cathedral dying?

00:01:17.740 We can tell that there's something wrong with the cathedral.

00:01:20.480 We can tell that there are issues with the cathedral.

00:01:23.540 Is it dying?

00:01:24.640 Or we might, we're going to also introduce a thread from another poster today,

00:01:28.160 which I think is very interesting.

00:01:29.180 Is it instead transforming into something very different?

00:01:32.500 But before we dive into all of that political theory,

00:01:36.400 joining me today is the Prudentialist.

00:01:39.180 Prudentialist, thanks for coming by, man.

00:01:40.720 Thanks for having me on again, Oren.

00:01:41.940 Always a pleasure.

00:01:43.320 Absolutely.

00:01:43.840 One of my favorite people to break things down with

00:01:45.960 and one of the audience's favorite as well.

00:01:47.800 So, always glad to have you.

00:01:50.340 We're going to jump into the essay, guys.

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00:03:28.220 All right, guys, so let's go ahead and dive into this.

00:03:33.160 Now, as again is so often the case, when we look at the cathedral,

00:03:38.220 when we look at these essays, look in the cathedral, this is coming from land.

00:03:41.880 He is responding to Curtis Yarvin and Curtis Yarvin's theory.

00:03:45.860 This is that's put forward in unqualified reservations in the open letter

00:03:50.900 and other essays that he wrote there.

00:03:54.540 And he's responding specifically to an idea of kind of how our regime manages information.

00:04:02.180 Again, many of you have probably run into kind of the phrase, the cathedral.

00:04:07.160 I know a lot of people don't like that phrase.

00:04:10.040 I understand that, you know, some people have a different thing for it.

00:04:13.760 However, whatever you want to call it is fine.

00:04:15.360 That's not really a problem.

00:04:16.540 But we do want to understand what the concept is.

00:04:19.960 I've kind of gone over it many times, but we'll just go ahead and break it down real quick

00:04:24.500 so people have context.

00:04:26.280 So the idea of the cathedral is the idea that even though we do not have a specific

00:04:31.800 kind of state-sponsored, state-sanctioned Politburo or central propaganda apparatus

00:04:39.280 in the United States, even though theoretically, you know, we have this free system,

00:04:44.200 an open marketplace of ideas, all of these different organizations, what actually happens

00:04:49.640 is Harvard and Yale and the New York Times and the Pentagon and Apple, they all seem to

00:04:55.580 agree almost constantly.

00:04:57.660 And the question is why?

00:04:58.720 If we don't have this central consensus-making apparatus, what's doing this?

00:05:04.460 How are they all still saying the same thing?

00:05:06.720 Why is it that you can watch 15 different news networks and they all say the same line over

00:05:11.960 and over again?

00:05:12.640 What's going on there?

00:05:13.520 And the answer is that there is a distributed network of organizations and institutions that

00:05:22.440 work and to kind of manufacture our consensus in the United States.

00:05:26.680 This mainly comes from things like universities and the media apparatus, though other things

00:05:32.560 like the federal bureaucracy and corporations are also an essential part of it.

00:05:36.820 And they all have kind of the same morality, the same background, the same ideas, the same

00:05:42.880 shared experiences and universities, the same credentialing mechanisms.

00:05:46.740 And this means that they all tend to share the same ideas.

00:05:49.860 They want to impress each other.

00:05:50.940 They tend to work kind of simultaneously to shift people in a particular direction.

00:05:57.280 Curtis Yarvin calls this the cathedral.

00:05:59.140 Some people call this the deep state.

00:06:01.000 Some people call it the system.

00:06:02.500 Again, whatever you want to call it, the important thing is not the label itself so much as kind

00:06:07.640 of the concept of what is driving public opinion in the United States.

00:06:12.000 Now, Prudentialist, when did you first kind of hear this idea of the cathedral?

00:06:16.700 What did you think about it when you first kind of interacted with it?

00:06:20.100 Well, I think it's important to sort of separate the label from the concept.

00:06:24.580 Like you had said, the concept is way more important than whatever term that you might

00:06:28.160 want to use.

00:06:28.780 So, I mean, I've always heard the system or just the or how my grandpa likes to describe

00:06:34.660 like a backroom deal.

00:06:36.140 I don't know if he ever got that from Rush Limbaugh or somebody else.

00:06:38.600 But this idea that, you know, academia, the media and government all kind of work together

00:06:43.740 and this sort of just handshake agreement was just sort of how I always interpreted it.

00:06:48.460 It wouldn't be until around 2019 or so when I first heard of Curtis Yarvin and started

00:06:53.300 reading some of his work.

00:06:55.220 Found it particularly interesting, but it's been a few years now since I heard the term.

00:07:00.740 So we're going to be looking at, again, kind of what Nick Land thinks about it.

00:07:04.860 But I'm also going to bring in another thread.

00:07:07.000 There was a great thread over the weekend that kind of talks about what the system might be

00:07:11.860 morphing into.

00:07:12.560 So we'll read Land's post first and then we'll move into the other one and kind of compare

00:07:18.240 and contrast.

00:07:19.060 Because remember, these, you know, systems blog entries are older.

00:07:23.840 They've been around for a number of years.

00:07:25.880 And so things have changed in the time from when Land wrote them, though.

00:07:28.920 I still think there's some important insights to get into here.

00:07:32.560 So we'll just go ahead and start from the beginning.

00:07:34.700 So extreme corrosive pessimism is an NRX specialty.

00:07:39.100 Many people have complained about that, but Nick Land appreciates that aspect.

00:07:44.480 Since optimism bias is a status quo supported human cognitive frailty, it's a good thing

00:07:50.320 to have.

00:07:51.260 If rigidified, however, it can result in missing things.

00:07:55.280 One systematic distortion stems from hubris, taking the form of a confusion in the causality.

00:08:00.980 We don't like X and we want bad things to happen to it can actually be a distorted expression

00:08:06.780 of a basic process.

00:08:08.520 X is dying and therefore we've started to dislike it.

00:08:12.460 So what Land is saying here is that oftentimes, you know, people have this bias of, you know,

00:08:19.680 we want good things to happen.

00:08:21.220 We, you know, and so kind of the opposite of that is this, we want bad things to happen

00:08:26.680 to something we don't like.

00:08:28.320 And so a lot of people will look at something, they'll look at something like, say, the cathedral,

00:08:33.000 this kind of decentralized consensus making apparatus, and they'll say, well, I don't like

00:08:37.780 it.

00:08:38.120 And so I hope it falls apart. 0.95

00:08:39.560 I hope it collapses. 0.83

00:08:40.660 Right.

00:08:41.300 Well, what he says is actually the reason you don't like it is because it's collapsing.

00:08:46.760 The reason that you are now noticing it and you're paying attention to it and you're hating

00:08:53.580 it is because it's not doing its proper job.

00:08:58.740 Yeah, I think that one of the ways we can tell it's not doing its proper job and this

00:09:03.240 assets into it, but so does that other thread that we'll break down is, is that there are

00:09:07.540 certain mythological operating costs that I don't think that the cathedral or the, you

00:09:12.860 know, the system is particularly capable of maintaining anymore.

00:09:16.380 Those operational costs are just too high because no one believes in those political

00:09:21.180 platitudes that, you know, we're all, we all bleed the same blood.

00:09:24.280 We're all Americans under the red, white, and blue.

00:09:26.160 Like, clearly we all have different ideas of what that means.

00:09:29.100 And if the system itself can't maintain that, that's a sign that things are not working as

00:09:33.660 well as they once were able to, you know, uphold the civic religion.

00:09:37.300 So there is, to Nick Land, he senses that there's blood in the water and we don't like it

00:09:42.100 because it's dying.

00:09:43.160 As the kids say, it has the ick, so to speak.

00:09:45.340 So we're, we're not fans.

00:09:46.840 Yeah, no, that's exactly right.

00:09:48.380 The fact that there's these, there's this at the very least bifurcation of moral visions,

00:09:53.020 probably far, far, uh, further splintering.

00:09:55.940 But the fact that there are these, these radically different moral visions and that they can't

00:10:00.620 be unified, they can't be controlled, they can't be consistently put together on the same

00:10:04.600 page and kind of pointed at the same problem means that something is wrong with the apparatus

00:10:09.960 itself.

00:10:10.960 And so, uh, like you said, there's blood in the, blood in the water.

00:10:13.620 And that's why we suddenly don't like the thing because it's not working.

00:10:17.460 It's not getting us all on the same page anymore.

00:10:20.060 Uh, so, uh, he says this blog strongly suspects that the cathedral has become an object of

00:10:26.260 animosity as a consequence of its morbidity.

00:10:29.240 After all, it's a mind control apparatus.

00:10:31.880 If it's no longer universally accepted and in certain problematic patches actively loathed,

00:10:38.020 this function is clearly indicated.

00:10:40.120 Uh, contestation of its story is not supposed to be part of the story.

00:10:45.220 So I, this particularly hit me when he said, uh, you know, different patches, uh, being

00:10:50.620 loathed, this made me think about kind of the disaffected liberal, right?

00:10:55.160 These, these moderates that are being thrown off.

00:10:57.340 If the, if the cathedral was working correctly, you would not have people who were progressive

00:11:02.640 just 10 years ago coming out against the current moral order, right?

00:11:08.140 They would not be fighting back against the message.

00:11:10.160 If this thing that is supposed to be a mind control device device, supposed to put us all

00:11:15.140 on the same page, if it was working properly, you wouldn't see that, right?

00:11:19.080 Oh yeah, absolutely.

00:11:20.260 I mean, we wouldn't be seeing this wave of disaffected liberals that have been constantly

00:11:24.680 saying for the last five to 10 years that, you know, I didn't leave the left, the left

00:11:29.280 left me.

00:11:29.960 There wouldn't be these projects by, you know, normally just well-established academics and

00:11:34.640 sort of the, you know, conservative or more of the establishment Ivy league schools or even

00:11:39.440 places like Notre Dame telling you that, Hey, things are bad.

00:11:42.400 I'm still pretty progressive, but like we need to filter out some kind of regime change

00:11:45.820 or whatever.

00:11:46.420 It really is illustrative of the fact that whatever is trying to make us all sing kumbaya

00:11:51.360 at the dinner table together is not working.

00:11:54.160 And the fact that there are certain, you know, little camps of, you know, political factions

00:11:58.880 and identities cropping out is indicative of the fact that, hey, the, the idea that we

00:12:04.120 can all watch Walter Cronkite or watch, you know, Charlie Rose on the television, we can

00:12:08.480 all get along and agree with the facts or facts, we just agree, disagree on policy that

00:12:12.600 doesn't exist anymore.

00:12:13.960 And, um, yeah, land is a firm believer that that's a sign of some kind of necrosis or death.

00:12:19.440 Yeah.

00:12:19.900 And I, and I think it gets into it a little bit here, but one of the key things that's

00:12:23.960 part of that process that you just kind of mentioned there is not just the splintering

00:12:27.480 the story, but the, the kind of the versus the many different media app websites, the

00:12:34.140 internet, the, the podcast, the number of ways that people can now consume content that

00:12:38.860 stories can get out that it's, it's so hard to have this monolithic censorship and unification

00:12:44.460 of the narrative, the way that it previously was available when you only had a few news readers.

00:12:49.960 There's only a couple of programs that actually talked about what was going on in the world.

00:12:54.180 You know, you, you just did not have, uh, the ability to break the message through at

00:12:59.880 the level that you do now.

00:13:01.460 And so that's, that's a huge part of it too, is the technological advances that have allowed,

00:13:06.140 um, kind of, uh, the regime to strengthen its grip on everything has also allowed cracks

00:13:12.380 to form in kind of this monolithic censorship apparatus.

00:13:15.960 All right.

00:13:18.560 So we'll jump back into the essay here.

00:13:21.240 The zeitgeist is its story.

00:13:23.060 Not ours is it is in this tale.

00:13:26.580 It goes from strength to strength, overwhelming everything in its path, recognizing the structure

00:13:31.660 of this narrative is important.

00:13:33.560 Subscription to it is not thereby implied.

00:13:36.840 So the current thing, right?

00:13:39.220 The zeitgeist should be its story.

00:13:41.740 It should be moving from strength to strength that, that, uh, kind of signal control, that

00:13:47.040 ability to blast over the, uh, kind of the narrative at all times should be overriding

00:13:53.160 kind of the actual public opinion, the actual pushback, uh, any, any real, uh, you know,

00:13:59.500 people saying anything different, but its ability to do that is kind of falling apart.

00:14:03.840 Now we're seeing the regime kind of just turn the volume up constantly, but its inability

00:14:08.660 to kind of stamp out all competitors means that it keeps running into this problem of

00:14:12.880 not being able to kind of bowl over all the alternative stories the way it used to.

00:14:17.660 Yeah, there's, uh, clearly things will, will stick through and will require some kind of

00:14:22.600 acknowledgement from the current thing or the current ruling class.

00:14:26.280 I mean, I am surprised by, we've, we've seen this with Maui, right?

00:14:30.340 You you're having sort of a hurricane Katrina like moment for instead of, you know, George

00:14:34.640 W. Bush just flying over new Orleans, it's president Biden, you know, going on vacation,

00:14:39.280 just giving a thumbs up with clearly a lot of incompetent people running things, which

00:14:43.180 give people really bad sniff test.

00:14:45.460 Now you've got the, uh, hurricane Hillary. 0.91

00:14:47.640 So another Hillary kill count coming in for California. 1.00

00:14:50.360 Um, you know, it's really indicative that, Hey, some things are just sort of piercing through

00:14:54.220 the, what we might call the current thing.

00:14:56.140 No one's talking about say the latest film or celebrity drama.

00:15:00.240 There are clearly more pressing issues on its mind.

00:15:02.320 I mean, there are people on the political left who consider themselves diehard progressives

00:15:06.780 that are now openly talking about things like catabolic collapse.

00:15:10.960 Clearly the sort of mainstream narrative about how things are going is, uh, really indicative.

00:15:16.280 I mean, even more, um, publicly facing like geopolitics people, for example, like Peter

00:15:21.060 Zion has a whole book about how the end of the world is just beginning.

00:15:24.540 Uh, and it sort of indicates that, you know, whatever system is meant to keep, you know, the,

00:15:29.080 the lights on the roads working public sewage, airports, you know, uh, supply chains working

00:15:34.900 things are clearly falling apart and people can notice.

00:15:38.600 Absolutely.

00:15:39.220 All right.

00:15:39.520 So jumping back in here, every critical component of the cathedral media, academic, bureaucratic

00:15:45.460 is exceptionally vulnerable to internet driven disintermediation.

00:15:50.140 The current phase of capital reconstruction is distinctively and automatically cathedral hostile

00:15:56.560 when evaluated at the level of the, uh, economic process, uh, process, which we do not, uh, do enough

00:16:04.160 rather than at the level of surface, surface public pronouncement, which can, uh, which we concern

00:16:09.400 ourselves with far too much.

00:16:11.820 Dying things can vary, uh, can be very dangerous and even more frenzied.

00:16:16.040 It would be a mistake to confuse such characteristics with the fundamental, with fundamental strength.

00:16:21.920 So, uh, he's talking about the, the, the technical aspect we've already mentioned a couple of times.

00:16:27.560 Now he's saying that the internet is causing a serious problem.

00:16:31.080 It's not allowing, uh, this monolithic intermediation between, uh, kind of the truth and the public.

00:16:38.160 They can't get everybody to sing on the same hymn sheet all the time.

00:16:41.600 And more importantly, he's saying that it's, it's really just this current mode of capital

00:16:46.680 reconstruction.

00:16:47.620 Things are only getting more varied.

00:16:49.540 The avenues of distribution are only getting wider.

00:16:53.760 Uh, everything about this is kind of breaking down many parts of the cathedral.

00:16:58.540 Now, again, that is not the only thing that's happening.

00:17:01.800 They are obviously gaining, uh, many totalitarian, uh, kind of controls on other aspects of our lives.

00:17:09.120 There's all the, there's all this data collection, uh, there's all this biometric, you know, there's

00:17:13.780 so many things that can now be cataloged and used against you.

00:17:17.640 So technology is, it's not saying that the technology is not being used by the regime,

00:17:22.400 but it is saying that it's not being used in the way that the cathedral used to use it,

00:17:27.080 which I, again, we'll re we've foreshadowed this a number of times, but that's why I think

00:17:30.960 that, uh, that thread is so interesting that we're going to get to, because it kind of picks

00:17:34.800 up where this leaves off and says, okay, but here's what, here's how this is getting used now.

00:17:39.160 So he's saying that this, you know, this technology is, is killing many of the aspects

00:17:43.580 of the cathedral that allowed it to coordinate the message.

00:17:47.020 However, that doesn't mean that, uh, it's not dangerous right now, a dying animal that's

00:17:51.980 thrashing around, biting, scratching, clawing, because it's, it's in a, it's death throes.

00:17:56.960 It's still super dangerous, but that doesn't mean it's strong, right?

00:17:59.980 Just because it it's hurting people that it's causing damage does not make it strong.

00:18:04.800 Yeah, this is one of those things where I wish I knew when this essay was originally

00:18:09.000 published, because when he's talking about it's exceptionally vulnerable to disintermediation,

00:18:13.600 we're, we're cutting out the middleman.

00:18:16.020 I think that the middleman has found its way back.

00:18:19.020 It's just put on a more, um, public internet content creator face.

00:18:24.320 I mean, there was an example where regardless of your position on the Ukraine war, um, uh,

00:18:29.340 King and Games, I think it's one of those YouTube channels that's been covering it.

00:18:32.040 And it said that one of its essay or one of its video scripts had been provided by someone

00:18:35.780 from the National Endowment of Democracy, someone who works there.

00:18:38.680 And it's really indicative that there are middlemen out there.

00:18:41.420 And this is a way that I think that, uh, the regime has been trying to cut down on people

00:18:45.340 that can pierce through and, you know, can cut through the BS.

00:18:49.200 I mean, this is why the, uh, Doug Mackey trial was so important because you had a guy

00:18:53.820 making memes about elections, things that clearly pierced through public channels.

00:18:58.320 And so the regime's in a frenzy has arrested this guy and he was charged and found guilty

00:19:03.300 before a jury.

00:19:04.500 And so you're seeing it there.

00:19:05.540 I, I, if that's the frenzy death throes of a dying animal or a creature adapting to this

00:19:11.520 newfound environment, um, I think remains to be seen.

00:19:15.300 I mean, like things will collapse in there eight and innately, but I think that even when

00:19:19.220 we look at South Africa, right, the, the country can't maintain the lights on.

00:19:23.100 You've got rolling blackouts.

00:19:24.280 Such discussion is happening about how that might work in California and other parts of

00:19:27.600 the United States.

00:19:28.780 Um, but the ANC is still clearly in charge, but the people that run that, you know, political

00:19:32.760 institution still have a lot more authority than say the guy trying to like flee and go

00:19:37.020 to Orania.

00:19:37.860 So I, I think that it may be dying or it may just be acknowledging that we may have to reduce

00:19:44.600 our standard of living, our quality of life in order to maintain control.

00:19:48.160 And that may just be a concession.

00:19:49.720 It has to do to stay in power rather than dying, but maybe we'll see if that new thread

00:19:54.180 gets into it.

00:19:55.340 It does.

00:19:55.760 And I, and I think that's really important because I think our general answer to this

00:19:59.060 will be no, mostly, uh, though, uh, I think there are some signs that the regime is sick.

00:20:05.780 Uh, but, but it is, I think certainly transitioning from soft, the soft power of what many would

00:20:11.500 call the cathedral or the system to the hard power of the regime.

00:20:15.840 And again, that's, that's what we're going to get into with that thread, but let's go

00:20:18.940 ahead and, uh, kind of clean up the rest of this essay really quickly.

00:20:23.120 A step down from hubris might begin with acknowledgement that NRX is primarily a symptom.

00:20:29.700 Whatever imagined heroism is a sacrifice thereby is more than compensated by an opportunity

00:20:35.160 for deeper realism.

00:20:36.780 So he's saying again, that the fact, the fact that people are breaking away from classic

00:20:42.380 conservatism, kind of controlled right-wing, uh, thought is a sign again, not that like

00:20:48.900 the people doing that are heroic or they're, they're, they're different thinkers, but that

00:20:53.680 the system is so sick that it would allow this to kind of happen that people would search

00:20:58.900 outside of it.

00:20:59.780 And I can say that as somebody who was a talk radio conservative up until just a few years

00:21:04.900 ago, I think that's really true, right?

00:21:07.400 Like, I don't think I would be looking in the places that I looked.

00:21:11.160 I don't think I would be thinking about, you know, reading the thinkers that I read, explaining

00:21:14.720 the things that I'm explaining now, if the system was working in a way that allowed it

00:21:19.400 to continue to, to hold that capture, you know, to, to keep people on the reservation 0.86

00:21:24.060 and not thinking about anything outside of kind of the approved opposition.

00:21:28.840 And so I think that again, that's why I think even though the essay is a little dated

00:21:33.080 in some ways, it's still valuable because it allows us to kind of understand that, that,

00:21:37.100 that might be the whole reason again, that, that even people are looking at it in this

00:21:40.620 way.

00:21:41.600 Yeah.

00:21:42.060 I think that there's an, the opportunity for deepened realism is, is land rights, I think

00:21:46.560 is pretty accurate.

00:21:47.440 I think that nobody, even political leftists outside of say like the, the bread tube communists, 0.59

00:21:53.900 I had no one in a serious political left fashion, I think is even looking at this with the optimism

00:21:59.080 outside of maybe empty platitudes or rhetoric, because they also know that things have gotten

00:22:03.540 bad.

00:22:03.960 There are more realistic assessments of how leadership or how government might work at

00:22:08.460 a federal or local level.

00:22:09.900 And yeah, I mean, there, there is no heroism today.

00:22:13.180 I mean, the outside of the people that actually like take care of problems or defend persons and

00:22:17.960 property like Kyle Rittenhouse or, or Daniel Perry in the New York subway, like outside of that,

00:22:23.000 you know, people are just like looking for some kind of intellectual, realistic approach to how do we

00:22:28.900 solve problems.

00:22:29.640 And I think that that comes with a lot of issues in itself that we may not be able to get into,

00:22:34.220 but I mean, one of the things that I think certainly becomes a problem is, is that, yeah,

00:22:37.880 we can have an, a deeper assessment.

00:22:40.060 We can look at things through like the lens of a Lule or Spangler, but, um, you know, I think that

00:22:45.460 also comes with this awful caveat that it makes a lot of people arm tear arm share political

00:22:50.400 theorists and not builders to do what they might need to survive.

00:22:53.460 And I think that that's a huge problem.

00:22:55.320 Um, yeah, there's this weird thing that is, and this is again, why I really enjoyed, like

00:23:01.000 when we went to the skilledings conference and, and, and things like that, there are these,

00:23:06.920 there's this thing that because talking heads or personalities, content creators, because

00:23:12.460 that's the forward facing part.

00:23:15.080 That's where kind of the community gathers in the comments, the live chats, you know, the,

00:23:19.600 the, the, the followings in Twitter, that kind of thing, because that's where some of that

00:23:23.960 stuff happens, that's the only thing that can happen, right?

00:23:26.480 There's the only thing that matters.

00:23:28.580 And I think of course it matters, you know, I'm making content, you're making content.

00:23:32.400 We obviously care about this stuff, but a lot of the things that really matter again,

00:23:36.940 are that, uh, that real organization, your own self, uh, improvement, and then your ability

00:23:41.940 to do good work in your community to network with others of like mind and find, uh, you know,

00:23:46.800 kind of good ways to make things happen that doesn't always show up in like entertaining

00:23:53.180 content that people will watch.

00:23:55.140 And so there's this dichotomy of like some, some of the most important work is not happening.

00:24:00.500 In fact, most of the most important work happening is not happening in the space where

00:24:03.980 people gather to talk about it.

00:24:05.800 And so people don't talk about as much, but that doesn't mean that, uh, theory should be

00:24:09.260 the only focus.

00:24:10.040 That doesn't mean endless discussions on that should be the only focus, though.

00:24:12.740 I still think there's, there's obviously a place for these things to continue to happen.

00:24:16.740 Uh, but just again, just because, you know, the, the live chat is where you meet up or

00:24:21.900 the, the Twitter thread is where you debate things under that doesn't mean that's the only

00:24:24.880 place that you can interact and do something valuable.

00:24:29.060 Uh, so, uh, the end here, uh, he's responding to, uh, somebody who was writing an essay, uh,

00:24:34.960 and he just kind of quotes him here saying, uh, the current crop of Republican candidates,

00:24:39.080 this is, uh, this has gotta be 2016, uh, by the way, 2015.

00:24:42.740 2016 are openly breaking with the really important modern faith, the media led church that has

00:24:48.160 held mainstream politics together.

00:24:49.980 So long, uh, this is the integrative media is, is fatally sick.

00:24:55.100 Uh, the internet exists at all is a sign of that.

00:24:58.440 And then he has this, uh, interesting added at the bottom, which I think I just want to

00:25:01.600 include because it's funny.

00:25:02.560 Uh, he says, I might be biased myself here, uh, because this is what, uh, obsesses me.

00:25:08.080 And this is what angers me.

00:25:09.660 I could care less to be honest about the GOP or its programs.

00:25:13.120 Again, I feel like that's just Trump voters, uh, it through and through, right?

00:25:16.680 Like I like I'm done with the GOP.

00:25:18.700 I don't really care about the GOP.

00:25:19.980 I'm not here for the conservative movement.

00:25:21.940 I, I, you know, that that's not why I'm here.

00:25:24.260 What keeps me interested in politics at all is my loathing of the self-appointed

00:25:28.320 pre-sleep cat, uh, class of the media.

00:25:30.880 Uh, Nick land, the OG, you don't hate journalists enough, uh, there, uh, the media, uh, serve

00:25:37.260 as, uh, the shamans and witch doctors of an entire tribe.

00:25:40.800 And the purpose of those shamans is to relentlessly disgrace outsiders to the tribe, which is pleased, 1.00

00:25:46.660 uh, which is pleasing to those, uh, within the tribe while also keeping the shamans in 0.59

00:25:51.560 power.

00:25:52.080 Uh, so basically these journalists are there to keep kind of these blue, the blue class 0.97

00:25:56.980 in power, the laptop class, the, the ruling class in power, uh, and they, the reason land

00:26:02.020 is, is willing to be involved at all is he really hates the way that they hate everyone

00:26:06.860 else and kind of, uh, you know, beat up middle America for their amusement.

00:26:10.960 So yeah, it's like that 4chan green text or whatever.

00:26:13.980 I don't have any politics. 0.81

00:26:15.100 I just really hate liberals.

00:26:17.280 That's really what it is.

00:26:19.140 Um, although that phrase integrative media is the thing that also makes me kind of question

00:26:24.180 things because, um, we, we now have Elon who had bought Twitter, uh, or X, uh, I really,

00:26:32.220 I don't know why you want to be so egotistical that you want to take away a brand that already

00:26:36.880 has its own like namesake, like the same way that Google has now become a company and a

00:26:41.460 verb, Twitter tweeting, whatever.

00:26:43.140 Um, but he wants to make it an all encompassing thing for payments, content creation, media,

00:26:48.340 news, fact-checking all in this one bundle deal.

00:26:50.840 And that's very integrative.

00:26:52.800 Like everything is now in one singular place.

00:26:55.980 Um, and I, and I wonder if we're going to see that resume.

00:26:59.260 I mean, there was a report that came out, I think from, uh, Rahim Kassim that he had

00:27:04.100 said that, uh, Twitter or X, Elon wants to hire election disinfo people for 2024.

00:27:10.920 So meet the, meet the new boss, same as the old boss, but like an egotistical billionaire,

00:27:15.340 just like the old boss, but worse.

00:27:17.200 So I think this one likes to laugh at the Babylon Bee.

00:27:20.660 So, yeah, yeah.

00:27:21.800 So he's like, I, he's still awful.

00:27:24.620 I'm not going to give him any credit whatsoever.

00:27:26.660 Um, and I, I think that he's going to probably bring that sense of integrative media back,

00:27:31.740 but because it's incentivized for you to get some money out of it, it doesn't matter as

00:27:36.720 long as you fork over your real identification and who you are.

00:27:40.400 And, you know, I think we're going to see a return of integrative media.

00:27:44.160 Uh, so yeah, there, there's, uh, no, no spoilers for everybody, but I already cut a video for

00:27:49.240 later in the week talking about, uh, uh, Twitter and hitting on that, uh, topic quite a bit.

00:27:53.600 So, uh, you can check that out.

00:27:55.440 Probably, probably put it out Thursday guys, but I think you're right about a lot of that

00:27:58.860 prudentialist.

00:27:59.680 All right.

00:28:00.220 So, uh, now we're going to jump into a thread, uh, from a rather astute poster.

00:28:05.080 Uh, he's of course, drbaron17shyposterdds, uh, so, so while the name is very funny guys,

00:28:13.140 I get it.

00:28:13.640 Um, the, the content is very good.

00:28:15.700 Uh, and so I think it's, it's worth taking time because I said, I think, like I said,

00:28:19.540 really, uh, especially contrasting it with what we saw there in our previous one.

00:28:25.100 Uh, I think it's really important.

00:28:26.800 All right.

00:28:27.160 So, uh, we're going to jump into this thread guys, but before we do, uh, let's go ahead

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00:30:06.580 All right, so let's go ahead and listen to the intellectual musings of the Dr. Barron

00:30:14.620 here.

00:30:15.400 So like I said, it's very interesting contrasting this between kind of what Nick Lant had been

00:30:21.480 talking about.

00:30:22.300 Is the cathedral dying?

00:30:23.560 Is this mind control apparatus going away?

00:30:26.220 And I think this thread, which is going to talk more less about how it's dying and how

00:30:31.340 it's transitioning.

00:30:32.520 Now, a lot of people were complaining, to give you some context for this thread, like

00:30:36.480 Matt Iglesias was saying, people just say the regime and stuff, and nobody knows what

00:30:41.500 they're talking about.

00:30:42.840 And kind of Pedro Gonzalez, for some reason, was jumping in there as well and kind of agreeing.

00:30:46.380 It's like, well, actually, there's a thousand hours of people explaining exactly what this

00:30:50.540 means online.

00:30:51.160 But OK, anyway, the point is that, you know, that our poster here wanted to kind of explain

00:30:57.540 in more depth kind of what it was.

00:30:59.500 So he explained kind of what the regime is, but then he contrasted the cathedral here.

00:31:04.920 So we're going to go through the thread and kind of look at what he said and explain

00:31:08.780 kind of everything that was going on here.

00:31:10.580 So the regime has a lot of overlap with Moebuck's concept of the cathedral, but the cathedral

00:31:15.940 was meant to be more persuasive, liberal, hidden.

00:31:19.640 The regime is what happens when liberalism finishes its logical moves to the liberal leftism, and

00:31:26.300 with that becomes overtly coercive.

00:31:28.680 All right.

00:31:28.940 So I think that's a really important distinction that we are seeing here, right?

00:31:32.540 The it's not that the cathedral did not exist.

00:31:35.240 It's not that this, you know, this distributed consensus making apparatus wasn't a thing.

00:31:44.340 But what we're seeing is it's coming to its end.

00:31:46.840 The ability of the of the regime to operate it is running out again, maybe for many of the

00:31:54.240 reasons that land identified in there.

00:31:56.100 Right.

00:31:56.220 The fact that people notice it, the fact that people don't like it means it's not working

00:32:01.620 and because it's dying, because it's, you know, these technological problems that are

00:32:06.620 opening it up to all these slings and arrows because it's losing all of these people.

00:32:11.460 There's these apostates who are breaking away from progressivism because of kind of these 1.00

00:32:17.440 obvious flaws.

00:32:18.180 The regime is kind of slowly having to transition to a hard power, to more overtly coercive methods

00:32:26.160 because that soft kind of persuasive nudge style liberalism that came out of the cathedral

00:32:33.360 is no longer working to manage the populace.

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00:33:08.180 Yeah, I really think that that's sort of the dead-set transition where we've moved from.

00:33:13.040 Like the soft coercive, you know, the soft push, that invisible hand that sort of casually moves

00:33:20.000 things ever leftward has kind of been not as effective as sort of what land claims that it's dying.

00:33:26.920 Whereas here, it's realizing that the current method of gently pushing, gently nudging isn't working.

00:33:32.980 And instead, maybe, you know, an iron fist under a velvet glove punching you in the solar plexus might be a better idea.

00:33:40.760 Right, right.

00:33:41.540 And for those who have seen some of my other work before, I've talked about the difference between lions and foxes.

00:33:47.720 Right, we've talked about the kind of the residue one and residue two kind of proclivities from Vilfredo Pareto.

00:33:56.380 And the fact that your ruling class is always going to have a mixture of kind of these more martial stalwart kind of physical types like the lions.

00:34:07.620 And then the more tricky, those who are able to kind of combine things and think around problems, those are going to be your foxes.

00:34:14.320 We've obviously had a fox-style government for a long time.

00:34:18.540 We've kind of stretched fox governments to its limits.

00:34:22.040 How much propaganda can you really tunnel through?

00:34:25.260 How much can you really combine and destroy and kind of recreate different institutions?

00:34:32.020 But the foxes are coming to the end of their ability to manipulate things.

00:34:36.600 And they're still really bad at being lions, though.

00:34:38.920 Like, they still don't know how to use kind of aggressive power.

00:34:41.760 So I think what we're going to see is the regime trying to move to this hard power, but maybe not doing the best job.

00:34:49.160 But we'll get into that a little more as we get into the thread.

00:34:52.280 So he says,

00:34:53.000 The cathedral is at least a century old, but I think it's just now gone through a phase transition, as it exhausts a lot of liberal premises of equality, while at the same time discovering that it has captured enough people and the elite to abandon equality.

00:35:09.140 Which means it has the power to enforce its next phase equality, i.e. equality through use of force.

00:35:16.380 While it shares things with previous forms of illiberal leftism, this is a uniquely American evolution and is also one that draws on modern forms of force.

00:35:27.620 So that's very interesting because he talks about the shift of equality to equity, right?

00:35:33.520 We see that the equality to equity phase.

00:35:35.940 So we stopped talking about kind of these soft nudges in the direction.

00:35:41.800 We'll put a little thumb on the scale here, you know, give people enough indoctrination in this direction to kind of get to equality.

00:35:50.400 But now we don't have to pretend what we're looking for is equality anymore.

00:35:54.180 We can now just go full on.

00:35:56.260 We're going to enforce equity and we're going to start doing it not with just, you know, kind of the old school gulags and guns against your back form of force, but new forms of force that are now available through technological and social advancement.

00:36:11.740 Yeah, and I think it's also important to note that when we say has captured enough people and the elite to abandon equality, we also have got, you know, mass immigration plays a huge role in that.

00:36:22.400 Like, you know, if we can dilute and diminish, as you had tweeted earlier, like if we can just, you know, create a sort of this like black state to consolidate black power in America, and that's totally fine with the regime. 0.99

00:36:32.340 Like clearly, like you're capitalizing on sort of these like inter-minority interests to capitalize and dilute the power of middle America, which has still been, you know, strongly voting for Trump under our current party system.

00:36:44.480 And, you know, the elites are all for it because they long for the day, you know, whether they're writing about the emerging democratic majority or, you know, Congressman Ted Lieu laughing about demographic change.

00:36:55.740 Like, it's a way in which they no longer have to play a game about equality.

00:37:00.660 We can all just get along.

00:37:01.820 It's about diversity, equity, and inclusion to ensure that anything of the old, you know, avenues to resist power are diluted out and crushed in new corporate ways,

00:37:11.980 whether that be through, you know, debanking, deplatforming.

00:37:16.240 I mean, the list goes on and we've seen them.

00:37:18.560 And he mentions this in another tweet responding to someone else, but he's like, it's almost as if the last eight years didn't happen at all when you say these things don't exist,

00:37:26.200 when clearly we're witnessing a brand new transformation of our regime.

00:37:30.940 And I think that this is a good update from what Land is saying, because it's not, well, it's not that the regime is dying.

00:37:35.960 It's just that the mask is off and everyone's kind of recognizing that we're in a totally different state of politics that no one knows what to do with.

00:37:44.220 Yeah, and like you said, that concerted effort to bring a change in the electoral system, to change the demographics, to change the voting system,

00:37:54.740 make sure mail and ballots are available, make sure that you're diluting the different groups that had been in the country before, 0.94

00:38:01.980 making sure the democratic system is completely pliable to the will of the party,

00:38:06.580 as opposed to have any kind of regional pushback tied to the legacy of people who lived in those areas.

00:38:12.120 Like, that's all a very clear effort.

00:38:14.920 And it's, again, it's a playbook that gets repeated.

00:38:17.480 I mean, did you see the Sadiq Khan?

00:38:19.940 Because that Charles Blow article was wild.

00:38:22.220 Like, yeah, I couldn't help.

00:38:23.520 I might have to do an episode just about that because of like how boldface he was.

00:38:28.260 Like, he was just basically preaching black nationalism in the middle of the New York Times.

00:38:32.360 It's like, yeah, that's fine.

00:38:33.340 Like, that's how the New York Times does business.

00:38:36.380 They're on board with that.

00:38:37.360 That makes perfect sense.

00:38:38.140 But the Sadiq Khan one where like his office didn't want people posting like white families in London

00:38:46.120 because that's not what London looks like.

00:38:48.680 Yeah, those are not traditional or not real Londoners is what he had said.

00:38:52.940 Yeah.

00:38:53.280 In the same way that like, you know, their prime minister who had looked like he was really happy

00:38:59.140 that he was standing behind the podium, not as the prime minister, but as a Hindu.

00:39:02.240 It really does indicate that, you know, all sorts of ways in which there used to be the avenues of power.

00:39:09.000 They've been replaced by these new diverse or post-racial, you know, language that they like to use when really it's just another way that they can just openly say,

00:39:18.800 no, we just don't want the people that live lived here longer than you to have any political power.

00:39:23.460 Yeah.

00:39:23.600 Well, especially because they're the ones that remember something, right?

00:39:26.600 I think they're the ones that had client groups, they had social ties, they had social fabric that existed before the regime. 0.90

00:39:34.160 And so, yeah, it's like it's like what you've said all the time when you see those pictures where people like crap on the 1950s.

00:39:39.720 It's just like we have this decade of U.S. history where it was like really well documented, filmed and televised where people were happy and could live under like one income and have families and kids.

00:39:49.580 And that's why they have to rehistoricize it and tell lies about it, because, you know, you have to be miserable and equitable and diverse in this new regime. 1.00

00:39:58.020 And you have to make sure that there's no there's no group that would understand any truth outside of what the regime would publish.

00:40:04.080 Right. You don't have a tradition. You don't have a faith. You don't have a community that allows you to understand anything about what's not being piped through your television.

00:40:12.840 Because kind of once you've destroyed all those intervening social institutions, the only way to to enforce social fabric is just mass propaganda.

00:40:20.540 Right. And so, you know, you need to eliminate anybody who, you know, you've got to get rid of anybody who remembers when we were at war with South, you know, Southeast Asia or whatever.

00:40:29.720 Right. You got you got to disappear anybody who might have who might be behind on their latest NPC update.

00:40:36.940 Yeah. Like, oh, go ahead.

00:40:38.400 No, no. Oh, well, it's no, there's a really good example of this.

00:40:41.520 I don't know if you've covered it yet or in.

00:40:43.200 But I mean, like we have two movies now about like corporate biopics, like a fake story about flaming hot Cheetos.

00:40:49.200 And there's a movie on Amazon about Air Jordans.

00:40:51.100 Like, you know, we have all these new people that have come here to get their fresh update that America is just an economic zone with like a few notable like pop culture brands.

00:41:00.400 And so like that's that's our sort of that's the last remnants of soft power culture.

00:41:04.480 And even then a lot of people don't buy into it.

00:41:06.720 But it really does indicate that maybe these old soft power ways of media and propaganda don't work anymore.

00:41:12.960 And we can just, you know, we have to be more forceful because people can watch Barbie and recognize like, no, there's some really nice right wing themes to this.

00:41:20.620 And they're like, well, any sort of attempt to make this a feminist, you know, treatise that's got thrown out the window. 1.00

00:41:25.500 So we got to put some more force into it.

00:41:27.880 Yeah, it is kind of wild that the that these they're just these consumerist biopics are replacing any kind of.

00:41:35.000 So if you let me tell you something that's depressing because I'm a black pill dispenser.

00:41:39.900 But when I used to teach like there are these, you know, these games, there's these quiz games that we would play with the students, you know, to like make sure that, you know, it's like Jeopardy basically.

00:41:50.280 And the other, you know, hey, you know, who won this election and what happened at this point in the Civil War, blah, blah, blah.

00:41:56.720 And every once in a while, you just throw in a fun one, you know, so that, you know, they'd stay interested.

00:42:01.820 So you do one that's on movies or something.

00:42:05.040 And they didn't have any idea of shared history.

00:42:07.940 If you did one on Christmas, they didn't know the Bible story.

00:42:11.160 They didn't know about Mary or Joseph or Bethlehem.

00:42:14.060 None of them understood like any of that.

00:42:16.360 But if you did corporate brands, everybody was an expert.

00:42:21.200 They got super excited about corporate brands.

00:42:24.560 And so corporate brands are like this kind of beautiful thing, I guess, or, you know, horrible thing.

00:42:29.200 If you're one of these kind of people who's just looking to erase culture and melt it all down into the gray goo, because like, yeah, you might not know anything about actual history.

00:42:38.980 You might have no knowledge about you, like your religion, your culture, family, you know, your folkways, anything like that.

00:42:44.640 But everybody knows Pepsi, everybody knows Pizza Hut, everybody knows, you know, Nike when it shows up on the screen.

00:42:51.100 And the lights, you know, people lighting up that, it's wild.

00:42:54.300 But it really is kind of where the culture is going when you've managed to deracinate people that thoroughly.

00:43:00.360 Yeah, it's the neoliberal pantheon for you.

00:43:02.580 Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:43:04.420 All right.

00:43:04.800 So we need Geo to draw that one.

00:43:07.200 Let's let's let's let's commission that one. 0.99

00:43:09.500 The neoliberal pantheon.

00:43:11.460 All right.

00:43:11.860 So our next part here.

00:43:14.940 We got to.

00:43:16.420 So he's talking about the modern forms of force.

00:43:18.780 This means that it's still softer in some ways.

00:43:21.920 Its force isn't piling up bodies and ditches, except through anarcho tyranny.

00:43:25.880 But it is more interesting in interested in the platforming, the banking, sending sending state agents to tell tech companies what they must ban, that sort of thing.

00:43:37.300 So a lot of the power that you were talking about, Prudential, is saying, OK, and I've talked about this, too.

00:43:41.680 I did a piece called The Gulag Comes to You, right?

00:43:44.400 Putting people in trains, taking them to the work camps. 0.80

00:43:47.120 That's really messy work.

00:43:49.020 I mean, it's effective.

00:43:49.980 It'll silence people.

00:43:50.980 But, you know, there's a hard power thing that's distasteful and it's difficult in the modern world.

00:43:55.300 So the gulag comes to you.

00:43:56.780 You just shut down the bank account.

00:43:58.460 You make sure that they can't get a mortgage.

00:44:00.700 They can't rent any property.

00:44:02.640 You make sure that, you know, it's impossible for them to work or to invest or to, you know, get married or anything.

00:44:09.560 You just shut them down as a person.

00:44:11.200 And then you don't actually have to go through the messy business of rounding somebody up at gunpoint and sending them off to some godforsaken corner of Siberia.

00:44:20.740 Absolutely.

00:44:21.180 But at the same time, the regime is highly more aggressive than the cathedral was and will do things to destroy not only keystones of liberalism that were well accepted just 20 years ago, but also both private citizens and the president of the United States alike very publicly.

00:44:39.500 So this is a big pivot, right?

00:44:41.420 So he's been talking about, okay, well, they have access to these different tools.

00:44:44.820 It is softer than traditional totalitarianism.

00:44:47.760 But it is a big change from the old, more cathedral-like, this, again, soft power, distributed kind of apparatus of intellectual control, shifting to this more aggressive version where, yes, it's still not, you know, putting the jackboots on.

00:45:04.620 It's still not, you know, shipping you off in the trains.

00:45:07.740 However, it will go after people very specifically.

00:45:11.460 It will destroy key aspects even of things that were central to liberalism, which is kind of the ideology it used to set itself in.

00:45:19.140 And it will go after both private citizens and even the president of the United States.

00:45:23.360 It's obviously a much more aggressive version of this, which is willing to break boundaries and, in many ways, maybe do things that would be foolish if you're still trying to maintain soft power.

00:45:35.740 But it's willing to go much faster and break more things because it's not as concerned with this soft nudge style of control anymore.

00:45:43.620 Then he says, this is a massive change, one where media, social, legal, or corporate power can zap you out of existence at any moment.

00:45:56.200 Sometimes the cathedral would muster the will to do this.

00:46:00.140 But as the regime, it's an everyday thing.

00:46:02.600 And I think we're feeling that, right, this change between what was mainly an information-based flow of, okay, propaganda now becomes a personal attack, a public humiliation, struggle sessions, cancellations, firing, debanking, all of those things.

00:46:19.380 And like I said earlier, I don't know if it's so much maybe it's exhausted, it's liberal logic or, like, the philosophical endpoints of liberalism.

00:46:30.920 I really do wonder if this is more so just a immunological response to the fact that they didn't have their thumbs on the scales as much as they thought they did around 2016.

00:46:42.140 Because, I mean, there was no way that that man was supposed to be president of the United States.

00:46:46.660 They were flabbergasted, they were surprised, they didn't know what to do.

00:46:49.920 And every one of the coming weeks after November in 2016, the answer was, we can never let this happen again.

00:46:56.760 And so Biden gets in office after a contentious 2020 election.

00:47:02.000 You have, you know, a man arrested for making memes over four years ago.

00:47:06.340 You've got, you know, debanking, deplatforming, things that are more explicit and facing on things because they want to ensure never again.

00:47:14.720 And I think where Trump says, hey, they're not just after me, they're after you as well.

00:47:18.020 I think he's right there, too.

00:47:19.720 We saw that in the Georgia indictment.

00:47:22.380 And we saw that also with the alternate electors in Michigan or the Richmond office for the FBI investigating traditional Catholics.

00:47:29.920 So, you know, any avenue in which things could be talked about, whether that's, you know, their boogeyman was Trump and the alt-right, you know, now their boogeyman might be, you know, Christian nationalism or traditional Catholicism.

00:47:42.760 Anything in which they can see as a potential avenue for a 2016-like moment to have come into existence, they will shut down.

00:47:50.280 Because I think that they were really just surprised that actually we don't have all of our thumbs on the scales and somehow this guy got through.

00:48:00.260 Man, they want Christian nationalism to be the alt-right so bad.

00:48:04.720 So bad.

00:48:05.180 Yeah, so bad.

00:48:06.580 You can just see them just falling over themselves.

00:48:09.520 They're so desperate for it.

00:48:11.180 But, yeah.

00:48:12.180 All right.

00:48:12.480 So back to our thread here.

00:48:14.560 Within democracy, everyone can participate, but the cathedral robs people of democracy by deluding them.

00:48:20.840 Within democracy under the regime, it's ready to shed those delusions, participate too much, too freely, and you get destroyed outright, removed from participating at all.

00:48:30.860 Again, very critical, right?

00:48:32.540 The soft power was all about influence.

00:48:35.020 It was all about propaganda.

00:48:36.900 Yes, you technically get to choose your leader.

00:48:39.660 However, we're going to manipulate all the information, we're going to control all your understanding, we're going to create the stage, and then really you're probably just going to pick the guy we want.

00:48:49.880 But especially post-Trump, when he's not supposed to be there, when the things did not go that way, when that system of reliable kind of controlled management of democracy failed, now they shift to the regime where they are willing to get in there and say,

00:49:04.120 yeah, if you are involved in the democracy, yeah, technically you could still legally vote, but we're going to destroy you if you do the wrong thing.

00:49:10.900 And again, you can see this very specifically, I think, with the lawyers, the co-conspirators who got indicted with Trump here, right?

00:49:17.680 It's not just Trump.

00:49:18.940 We're not just going after the president, though that would be enough.

00:49:22.000 We're also going to destroy anyone who gave him legal counsel, anybody who worked in his administration.

00:49:26.740 So it's not just the political candidate himself.

00:49:31.620 All of that expert infrastructure, all that managerial infrastructure required to run a modern campaign to actually pose any real opposition to the Democratic Party is being attacked directly.

00:49:45.200 So they're not just going after the candidate himself because, you know, he's this one unique, you know, person who was uniquely dangerous and has to be taken away.

00:49:56.140 They're going after the entire apparatus.

00:49:58.360 They're sending a very clear message to anyone who would really stand against the regime again that, yes, technically you're allowed to participate in politics, but the activity of participating in politics means you will become subject to this judicial process that will destroy your life.

00:50:12.820 Yeah, and I think it's a really key difference between sort of like your mom and pop mainstream conservatism, where there is still this acknowledgement of sacredness and rituality towards elections, whereas the left and the regime understands that, you know, they're atheistic about it.

00:50:32.900 They know that this is just a bunch of made up kooky laws and BS that we can manipulate for our own ends.

00:50:38.540 And so you have one side that fervently believes that there is something like sacred about democracy.

00:50:43.480 We have our founding fathers.

00:50:44.680 We've got our our holy scripture and texts of the Constitution and our laws.

00:50:49.100 And for the rest of them, they're like, no, these are just things that we can use to game against you.

00:50:53.620 So you really are seeing this sort of, you know, like you can play the little game.

00:50:57.880 We'll let you go to your churches or whatever.

00:50:59.560 But secretly, we're going to ensure that whoever you elect is your pontiff or whatever is going to be our guy. 0.99

00:51:05.280 Or if you don't play along, you know, you're all arrested and we're going to burn you at the stake. 0.99

00:51:11.320 Absolutely. 0.97

00:51:11.960 And then finally, he says the regime has concocted a brilliant scheme of total coercion without having to directly kill anyone.

00:51:18.800 That's the merger that's the merger American leftism has been groping towards across the decade.

00:51:25.460 It's found it.

00:51:26.780 The question now is if it can keep it.

00:51:29.220 And that remains an open one.

00:51:31.300 So the goal was always to create this harder grasp on power, the situation where they no longer had to pretend that they can still do some of the softer coercion things, but they can bring that harder edge to power without having to actually become a full blown totalitarian violent state.

00:51:51.840 Now, the question is, can they continue to manage that level of control while not having to cross that line?

00:52:00.080 My answer is long term no.

00:52:03.480 But he's that he's saying this is an open question.

00:52:06.080 That's what we're going to say.

00:52:07.960 Yeah, I don't know if they can keep it for the long run.

00:52:11.520 I think this is why, you know, open borders and, you know, amnesty discussion has been so preeminent here, because if you can permanently have that sort of new underclass that votes for you in a high low versus middle model that you and I have talked about respectively with our own work, then maybe you could keep it.

00:52:30.080 Because then the anarcho-tyranny can continue.

00:52:31.980 Any opposition where you touch the third rail of politics, whether that be on, you know, racial issues or the enforcement of laws disproportionately towards one group or another, then yeah, like that can be permanently de-platformed, de-banked, de-personed, etc.

00:52:46.360 But for now, I don't know, because there has been so much discussion about, like, getting the heck out of cities or understanding that things are only going to get worse and that you need to prepare accordingly.

00:52:58.480 But eventually, you know, it's the same thing with, say, like the concept of bio-Leninism, like either you A, run out of people to bring in, or B, it becomes really difficult to manage, you know, all these sort of, you know, inter-minority coalitions that you're trying to balance.

00:53:13.780 Because, like, you know, we can spend months talking about anti-Asian Pacific Islander hate and everything, but it's hard for people to look at what they're saying and then try and, you know, not believe their lying eyes when they say one thing on the media.

00:53:27.220 And then they walk someone else of a totally different complexion, beat them, you know, in the streets of New York or in the subway. 0.98

00:53:32.540 So I will see. But I do think that one thing that would accelerate that way of maintaining this new form of coercive leftism is going to be some kind of way to, you know, just bring more people in and, you know, bring in amnesty, bring in a pathway to set a citizenship and do so.

00:53:48.720 And that's one of the things that I was really pleasantly surprised to see on the recent Blaze Summit that you guys had in Iowa was just that you guys were talking about the fact that not only do you need a wall, but you need to deport these people.

00:53:59.680 And that has to be in some mainstream platform going forward when having these discussions.

00:54:04.220 Because if not, the complete dilution of, you know, American political power as we once knew it will disappear and they'll be able to maintain this form of coercion for as long as they want to.

00:54:15.200 So, yeah, if you if you don't like your current voting base, you can always just hire a new one.

00:54:19.740 And that's that's kind of the plan, I think, for for most of the Democratic Party.

00:54:24.860 So stopping that trend, reversing that trend is is critical if you want to have any hope of of stopping the plan that they've kind of openly bragged about repeatedly in the pages of The New York Times and elsewhere.

00:54:36.760 All right. So let's head over to our to our questions of the people.

00:54:41.800 But before we do Prudentialist, where should people be looking for your excellent work?

00:54:45.880 Yes, as always, Oren, thank you for having me on. It's always a pleasure.

00:54:48.500 You can find me over on YouTube as YouTube dot com slash at the Prudentialist.

00:54:52.380 I'll be over there and you can find all of my links at find my friends dot net slash the Prudentialist.

00:54:57.340 I'm on Twitter, YouTube, Telegram, Odyssey, Rumble, any sort of social media platform you can think of and, you know, video hosting site.

00:55:03.600 I'm probably there. And by all means, head on over to the channel.

00:55:07.740 We just have a brand new lecture discussing William Appelman Williams empire is a way of life, taking a look at sort of the tragedy of U.S. policy and foreign affairs.

00:55:16.180 So if you're into that sort of stuff, by all means, check out what I do.

00:55:19.580 Excellent. All right. Let's head over here.

00:55:21.640 Our first question from Pharmacel for ten dollars.

00:55:24.580 Thank you very much. Concentrating black people into one or two states would hurt the regime because every red state has a blue city with many black presidents, which were election fortification can happen. 0.94

00:55:35.660 Yeah. For those who don't know, we kind of mentioned this article in passing, but we didn't really get details.

00:55:41.100 I might do that later on here in a video.

00:55:43.400 But Charles Blow basically gave an idea saying that basically all black people should move to a couple states so they can have total control of them and consolidate political power there.

00:55:53.160 Again, something that if you said about white people or anything or Christians or anything, people would lose their absolute minds. 0.99

00:55:59.500 But, you know, hypocrisy. How does it work? Right. We've gone over this a million times. 0.99

00:56:04.360 But yeah, I see what you're saying there. Obviously.

00:56:07.560 Yeah, I don't think that's actually anything that the regime wants.

00:56:11.100 There is. Let's be really clear.

00:56:13.980 Like there is a this this is useful as a shibboleth, not as an actual, you know, there's no problems that the regime wants to solve for black America.

00:56:24.540 Right. That's not useful for them.

00:56:26.620 But it is useful to use them as a bludgeon to to be able to threaten different things, you know, to tell the community that they're going to deliver certain things and then, you know, garner kind of support that kind of way.

00:56:38.380 They don't want to distribute or they want that distributed more than they want to concentrate it because, you know, then, you know, they wouldn't be able to use it in the same way.

00:56:46.720 So I think you're right that that's something the regime would avoid for sure.

00:56:51.780 Yeah, I don't find it to be anything that would actually happen.

00:56:55.180 It's the same thing that happened. I think I think it's a Washington Post op ed from 2011.

00:56:59.480 It's quite a few years old at this point, 2011 or 2013, where they said, well, really, the solution to institutional racism is to give blacks five thirds the vote.

00:57:08.380 And so, I mean, like clearly these sort of language games and these sort of platitudinal like idea of like giving them the sort of political power, it's more of a carrot to keep them in line in the same way that when then Vice President Joe Biden was campaigning in 2012, he had threatened black voters that Mitt Romney would put them back in chains.

00:57:27.100 You know, like it's that's a that article. It's nothing more than sort of the carrot stick thing that you see all the time.

00:57:34.280 Yeah, everyone said once every few years, they have to remind people that milquetoast Mitt Romney is just a just one year away from re enslaving, you know, 15% of the population.

00:57:47.200 David Tavares here. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you for sharing this type of content with us. Absolutely appreciate you coming by.

00:57:54.720 Jacob here for $10 a bit off topic, Oren, but it seems to be Oren seems to be one of the most vocal in the directing slow collapse,

00:58:02.800 as where Hayward seems to think it will happen fairly soon. Has there been or could there be a conversation on this?

00:58:09.520 Well, I've had Charles on at least twice for the channel, and certainly I'll have him on, I'm sure, at some point in the future.

00:58:16.680 He's a great guest. Charles is most certainly of the like quick run collapse doomerism camp there. 0.82

00:58:24.500 I wouldn't say I'm on the slow collapse camp. I would say I'm more in the medium, more in the medium, a generation or two, as opposed to, you know, Charles, who's like, it's going to happen in the next five to 10 years.

00:58:36.360 That seems a little, a little fast for me. But then there are plenty of people who say it's either never going to happen or, you know, someone like mold bug who says, you know, could be 100 or more years before it would happen.

00:58:46.840 And so I would put myself a little more in that medium camp, but I would be more than happy to have that discussion with Charles at some point or bring it up next time he's on the channel.

00:58:55.240 Yeah, I mean, Charles has got a good piece about how fragile the regime really is. It's only, I think, less than a year old. It's really well worth your time in reading.

00:59:05.580 But yeah, I mean, I don't know if you guys have had that conversation on that piece directly, but it would be a good one to have about the sort of timeline of collapse, because everyone and their mother has got their predictions.

00:59:16.780 And I feel like a lot of people just end up turning into the Millerites when they make these into the world type, you know, pontifications.

00:59:23.540 Yep. Let's see here. Creeper weirdo for $5. Richmond north of Richmond was a right wing viewpoint and feeling like Barbie is a S post.

00:59:34.720 I don't know. We'll just censor ourselves for today to own the libs. And I'm tired of being gaslit.

00:59:42.840 So, yeah, I haven't broken into this because I the discourse on this is I feel been a little silly on all sides.

00:59:51.280 I haven't seen Barbie. I don't know anything about it other than people told me it might be secretly based.

00:59:56.420 I'm not going to watch it. I'm sorry. I'm not going to do it for the content grind.

01:00:00.100 The north of Richmond thing is I mean, I like the song.

01:00:05.620 I like bluegrass and is a good kind of bluegrassy country song.

01:00:09.740 So I enjoyed it. Some people were like, oh, well, it talks about the rich not being great.

01:00:16.020 So or class struggle. So it's really subversive. I don't think that is the case.

01:00:20.340 I mean, the guy came out very specifically. I always read it this way, but he came out very specifically and said, no, I'm just talking about politicians in Washington, D.C.

01:00:26.960 Like I'm not talking about class struggle or the rich in general, however you want to look at that.

01:00:34.240 I thought it was a good song. But yes, it was a very weird moment where a lot of people got angry and called the feminist pink movie about a toy.

01:00:43.960 Toy, the the right wing movie of the year while calling us a song about degenerate Washington politicians, a left wing screed against the rightism.

01:00:55.460 But yeah, that was a cultural moment that occurred on Twitter.com.

01:00:58.560 Sure, sure did. Yeah. I mean, I don't really have too strong of an opinion on music in part because I'm someone who unironically likes Streetlight Manifesto and other ska bands.

01:01:06.880 But I mean, outside of that, I think that when he's talking about, you know, obese people who milk welfare, like I'm that's a that's a right wing coded song.

01:01:14.120 Like, you're keyed in. I don't need to worry about your politics.

01:01:17.360 Just don't turn this person into an idol who doesn't match your like really highly online niche ideology one for one.

01:01:24.580 Like you need to be a little less concerned about ideological purity because there's plenty of people I don't agree with on the Internet that I still think whose work is really good.

01:01:34.340 So you should probably take that into consideration.

01:01:36.140 I mean, I watched Barbie for free. Someone bought my ticket for me.

01:01:39.740 They said they couldn't go. I watched it.

01:01:41.120 I mean, yeah, the coolest part is where Ken like learns that actually no patriarchy is based.

01:01:45.720 And we take over this imaginary world where only in an imaginary land does feminism work out. 1.00

01:01:50.420 But I mean, it still has its own problems.

01:01:52.320 But it's a fun way for the right to, you know, instead of death of the author, we hijack the author's intent and we make it our own thing.

01:01:59.440 And that's an example of what Nick Land was talking about, right?

01:02:02.100 Where we get rid of the middleman, we get rid of the intermediaries.

01:02:04.620 This is our thing now. Screw you. 0.99

01:02:06.820 We're the one who defined what this means. 0.99

01:02:09.200 Yes. Yeah.

01:02:10.440 No, I get it. I'm still not watching Barbie, but I get it.

01:02:15.180 Zion here for $20. Keep up the great work.

01:02:17.740 Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate it.

01:02:20.360 Let's see. We got Florida Henry here.

01:02:22.280 I work with several major corporations since the lockdowns and riots, and I've noticed workers and contractors just ignore HR and safety departments.

01:02:32.520 I mean, that would be a great thing if true.

01:02:35.880 I think there's certainly a lot of sometimes things just have to get done, especially in very particular areas, and they just blow past that stuff and everyone turns a blind eye.

01:02:50.040 That's still not a good long-term plan because I know what you're talking about.

01:02:55.600 Yeah, okay. Normally, we put things through HR. Normally, we go through the process, but there's a natural disaster. The lights have to turn on, blah, blah, blah, so we'll just ignore it and get the work done.

01:03:05.700 But the continued existence of those organizations, it means eventually they kind of warm their way into everything. The fact that people have to blow them off, that they have to worm their way around them, they still have to do the dance, that is itself a problem.

01:03:20.040 But, I mean, it's good to know if at least some degree there is some pushback. Hopefully, that's a wider thing, but I think the continued existence of those departments still bodes poorly for those organizations.

01:03:30.820 Yeah, I mean, like, we kind of just ignore what HR has to say when I get to work from home, and it's just like, ah, well, you know, like, I can roll my eyes at it, but, like, at the end of the day, that person still has their job, and these meetings are still mandatory.

01:03:44.320 It's cool that we can kind of, like, roll our eyes and be like, yeah, this lady's got a BS job or whatever, but that BS job is still a sign of political power and patronage, and so until all HR and diversity offices are permanently destroyed, they still have the power. 1.00

01:03:57.040 That's right. It gets raised to the ground. That's how you know.

01:04:02.280 Let's see here. We've got SkepticalPanda for $5. A little support from my favorite base streamer. Well, thank you very much, sir. Absolutely appreciate that. Thank you for coming by.

01:04:12.400 Let's see. We've got Philip Daniel here for $5. Would it not be in the case to be simpler for the government to dissolve the people and elect another? Yep.

01:04:20.540 A classic and absolutely true thing that is, you know, 100% happening. Liberal democracies have figured out the problem, and the problem is the Democratic voting base.

01:04:32.920 So if you can get rid of them, then you can decide what actually is going to happen without much effort.

01:04:39.100 Glow in the dark for $5. I wouldn't say the cathedral is dying. I would say it's changing and cutting off parts that aren't as effective anymore.

01:04:45.440 Or soft glove out Iron Gauntlet in. Yeah, I think that there's a decent consensus between Prudentialist and I and obviously the thread there that we're seeing a metamorphosis, an evolution, you know, where things that don't work anymore are falling away.

01:05:02.000 And that would, again, make sense because the character of the people is changing. The technology is changing. Of course, it's going to adapt. Of course, it's going to try different things.

01:05:09.700 I do think, however, there are some stability problems that are emerging. Again, I just wrote a book about it, and it'll come out soon. So I'm not going to dive into it today.

01:05:20.800 But I don't think it's all just the cathedral is adapting, just it's transforming into the regime, and it's going to have the thousand-year rule here. I don't think that's exactly how that's going to work. But you are right that the adaptations are coming.

01:05:34.180 Yeah, and I think that point that you made about technology is really important. Like, people didn't just read, like, Alul or Lippman or Edward Bernays and then put them up on a high bookshelf somewhere.

01:05:45.000 No, those readings and those social technologies got refined and turned into, like, the most disastrous and destroying weaponized psyops known to man. And here we are.

01:05:55.180 So, Will Kortet here for $10. What would be your ideal economic policy? It seems like you have been critical of Mises' free market ideas in general, but would love to hear some clarity on that issue.

01:06:09.700 Yeah, so to be clear, I'm not the economics guy. I'm not going to pretend to be the economics guy. I think there's actually a problem with being the economics guy.

01:06:18.880 You know, Carlisle called it the dismal science for a reason. I think it makes it difficult for you to see humanity as a whole.

01:06:27.320 While it can provide you powerful insights on very specific things about humanity and its organization, and I'm not denying that those things can be valuable,

01:06:36.660 treating it as a be-all, end-all or a kind of a mass universal way to understand mankind, his social organization, his well-being, is a problem.

01:06:46.220 That doesn't mean that there aren't just, like, hard laws of economics in the same way that there are hard laws to some degree, you know, of physics.

01:06:55.400 I mean, I don't think the laws in economics are anywhere as hard as the, you know, real sciences.

01:07:01.220 But I'm not saying those things couldn't exist.

01:07:03.400 But I'm saying there does need to be an orientation to and a recognition of who the economy is in service of.

01:07:10.340 The big problem with, I think, many of the free marketeers who are still pushing a lot of that stuff is while they might be right about incentives,

01:07:17.260 they're often still just thinking of economics as, like, this free movement.

01:07:22.860 You know, every group of people is fungible.

01:07:25.380 It doesn't really matter what the actual practical application of these things is in people's lives.

01:07:31.680 It only matters if the line goes up.

01:07:33.360 And I think that is a real problem.

01:07:35.300 So, like, yeah, maybe my, you know, TVs are cheaper that are coming over from China.

01:07:41.340 Maybe in some ways there's some ease or comfort in the ability to invest in certain things.

01:07:47.820 But at the end of the day, if it's making me and my neighbor sadder, if we can't, if they're not employed, if they can't have families,

01:07:54.080 they can't have religious communities. 0.92

01:07:55.180 I don't care how, like, fluid my markets are.

01:07:58.120 And so I think it's more of a readjustment of priorities rather than adhering to one particular economic system and its outcomes.

01:08:06.560 Yeah, my views are very similar to yours, Oren.

01:08:09.100 Like, I think of markets, and I think in a more localized form of mom-and-pop stores rather than watching the state arbitrarily determine, you know,

01:08:18.680 actually, no, we're going to have this anarcho-tyranny on an economic scale, and I'm not a fan of that either.

01:08:23.420 But at the same time, right, like, we're so overburdened by a regulatory state, I definitely understand where the free marketeers are coming from.

01:08:30.800 And like you, I'm not an economics guy.

01:08:33.060 Right, yeah.

01:08:33.660 I mean, there's this, I think this false thing where, like, if you are not for every access of libertarian, the libertarian conception of markets,

01:08:43.980 then you are some kind of socialist or Marxist or something.

01:08:47.660 I find that kind of a silly way to understand things.

01:08:51.580 But, again, I think it's about a reorientation of priorities.

01:08:56.460 You know, if you want to jump on the Ben Shapiro thing and say, well, these are just economic realities, and that's how it's always going to be.

01:09:03.220 And so you just have to let your communities die and let people become childless because that's just, you know, the outcome of the free market.

01:09:10.700 Well, fine, but sorry, I'm not your friend.

01:09:12.360 Raphael, I'm sorry, I'm not going to say the rest of your name because I will destroy it, but I am very grateful for your donation.

01:09:20.720 Is the masked man dying along with the cathedral, or do you see the mass society enduring beyond the lifespan of the consent manufacturing machine?

01:09:28.340 Thank you for your work.

01:09:29.640 Well, I think that's a great question, man.

01:09:31.020 So I think the answer to that is that the cathedral helped produce the masked man, but it's no longer sufficient to govern the masked man, which is why I think we're seeing that transition to the regime.

01:09:42.180 Because once the cathedral stripped out kind of all of these individual folkways, these individual traditions, these individual communities that would have grounded people in something approaching a natural law, a natural way of being, something that's closer to kind of the organic expression of their community, you could no longer manage people with the same kind of soft power that you had in the cathedral.

01:10:07.620 You needed some more of that hard power.

01:10:09.980 You needed to bring a harsher edge to things, and you were also able to, because again, there's no longer of that cultural friction, those traditional frictions, those opposing social spheres that would have pushed back against you.

01:10:21.240 So I think that the cathedral kind of transitioning into the regime is not a signal that the masked man is going anywhere, but more that the masked man has come and is now, you know, kind of completely deracinated.

01:10:35.000 And so a new way of governing the masked man is now capable.

01:10:38.860 So I think that you will continuing, you will continue to see the masked man, and you will still see the consent manufacturing machine, but the consent manufacturing machine will use more aggressive and more forceful tactics, along with many of the ones that were part of the softer liberalism of the cathedral.

01:10:56.980 Yeah, like that mask, I mean, like Revolt to the Masses is still a book well worth your time by Jose Ortega, where sort of that word masked man comes from.

01:11:05.380 But like, I think as Walter Lippmann described in public opinion, that we're all sort of forced into our own pseudo realities, right?

01:11:13.980 And I think that the internet has only accelerated that we're not in this sort of McLuhan global village, right?

01:11:19.120 We, we all live in our own niche spaces, Twitter is a big platform that anyone can use, but it has its own niche ecosystems for politics, media, culture, you know, fandom, etc.

01:11:29.140 And so maybe masked man, as we know it may die, but it may evolve in just these own niche bubbles that the regime will try and penetrate every which way it can.

01:11:39.580 I mean, that was a big thing out of the Doug Mackey trial, right, was that some anonymous poster by the name of microchip, you know, turned against him and testified for the federal government.

01:11:47.540 And like, you know, if you've got people that are willing to do that, or to be, you know, feds themselves, then the masked man is a perpetually surveilled man, it doesn't matter what his predilections, tastes or sexuality may be, he's just going to be the kind of man that, you know, has his things, he reads his paper, he watches his favorite YouTubers, but at the end of the day, there is someone out there trying to affect his decision making skills.

01:12:10.840 And then finally, let's see, sign over the X for five Canadian. Thank you very much, sir.

01:12:19.600 Oren, would you be interested in making a video about each of Pareto's residue classes?

01:12:24.820 Yeah, that's a good question. One of the things that I've been doing, and I don't know if people have noticed, but, you know, originally, when I first started the channel, a lot of the stuff did not have explanations or didn't have more concise explanations.

01:12:38.000 And so I went through and I kind of gave broad overviews of thinkers, guys like Nick Land, like Curtis Yarvin, like Pareto or Mosk or these kind of people.

01:12:48.760 But now that I've got more time, you know, I can I do this full time, I'm not just trying to like sneak a video in every week under the gun, I can take some more time and go back to these thinkers and do them in more detail.

01:13:01.060 That's why we're going through people like Nick Land in far more detail than we're able to do before.

01:13:07.100 And so Pareto is certainly one I want to get to. The interesting about Pareto, of course, he has this entire vast sociological system.

01:13:14.080 Society in the Mind is four volumes. You know, you can get the compendium, which is easier.

01:13:19.480 That's got most of the critical things you'll need for the political stuff.

01:13:22.740 But his his true kind of work on sociology is is massive.

01:13:27.760 So it's hard to know where to to kind of start there. But the the residues is probably a good place.

01:13:33.140 So I might not get into every aspect of every residue.

01:13:36.820 And I have focused really on only the first two due to their kind of political implications.

01:13:41.280 But yeah, it is likely that at some point I will be able to find the time to get in there and kind of break down the the ones that are less relevant immediately to our political situation, but are still very important to understand is sociology.

01:13:54.120 So it is a good idea. It's something probably not in the near future, but but I will get to there eventually.

01:14:00.940 All right, guys, well, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up.

01:14:03.840 Of course, I want to thank the Prudentialist for coming by and excellent co-host as always.

01:14:08.500 And I think we've got all our super chats. Just want to make sure.

01:14:13.260 Yep, we're good. All right, guys.

01:14:14.600 So if it's your first time in the channel, of course, please make sure that you go ahead and subscribe.

01:14:19.240 And of course, YouTube, it's you know, people are like, hey, your stuff's not showing up in the feed.

01:14:23.640 I can't see when you go live. Guys, you got to do the stupid bell thing, the notifications. 0.95

01:14:27.900 YouTube's like, yeah, sure, you subscribe to him. 0.97

01:14:29.720 But do you really want to see any of his content?

01:14:31.720 So if you want to do that stuff, you got to go click all the other buttons and do all the other things so you actually see what's going on.

01:14:37.900 And of course, if you want to listen to this instead of watching it, you can go ahead and subscribe to The Orr McIntyre Show on your favorite podcast platform.

01:14:45.860 Thanks again for the way that's grown, guys.

01:14:47.820 The audience on the podcast is now actually larger than the YouTube channel at this point.

01:14:53.880 So that's amazing because it only really started like seven or eight months ago.

01:14:57.560 So seeing, you know, that kind of more than doubling of the audience is pretty wild.

01:15:01.560 So I really appreciate everybody who subscribed over there, leaves the ratings, reviews, everything.

01:15:06.380 It's a big deal.

01:15:07.320 So thank you for coming by, guys.

01:15:08.880 And as always, I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - August 21, 2023

Is the Cathedral Dying？｜ Guest： The Prudentialist ｜ 8⧸21⧸23

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

The Auron MacIntyre Show - August 21, 2023

Is the Cathedral Dying？ ｜ Guest： The Prudentialist ｜ 8⧸21⧸23

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Is the Cathedral Dying？｜ Guest： The Prudentialist ｜ 8⧸21⧸23