In this episode, we re focusing on a concept from Nick Land's essay, "Is the Cathedral Dying?" and asking the question, "What's the point of The Cathedral if it's not working anymore?" We re joined by the Prudentialist, Oren Polanen, to answer that question.
00:33:41.540And for those who have seen some of my other work before, I've talked about the difference between lions and foxes.
00:33:47.720Right, we've talked about the kind of the residue one and residue two kind of proclivities from Vilfredo Pareto.
00:33:56.380And the fact that your ruling class is always going to have a mixture of kind of these more martial stalwart kind of physical types like the lions.
00:34:07.620And then the more tricky, those who are able to kind of combine things and think around problems, those are going to be your foxes.
00:34:14.320We've obviously had a fox-style government for a long time.
00:34:18.540We've kind of stretched fox governments to its limits.
00:34:22.040How much propaganda can you really tunnel through?
00:34:25.260How much can you really combine and destroy and kind of recreate different institutions?
00:34:32.020But the foxes are coming to the end of their ability to manipulate things.
00:34:36.600And they're still really bad at being lions, though.
00:34:38.920Like, they still don't know how to use kind of aggressive power.
00:34:41.760So I think what we're going to see is the regime trying to move to this hard power, but maybe not doing the best job.
00:34:49.160But we'll get into that a little more as we get into the thread.
00:34:53.000The cathedral is at least a century old, but I think it's just now gone through a phase transition, as it exhausts a lot of liberal premises of equality, while at the same time discovering that it has captured enough people and the elite to abandon equality.
00:35:09.140Which means it has the power to enforce its next phase equality, i.e. equality through use of force.
00:35:16.380While it shares things with previous forms of illiberal leftism, this is a uniquely American evolution and is also one that draws on modern forms of force.
00:35:27.620So that's very interesting because he talks about the shift of equality to equity, right?
00:35:33.520We see that the equality to equity phase.
00:35:35.940So we stopped talking about kind of these soft nudges in the direction.
00:35:41.800We'll put a little thumb on the scale here, you know, give people enough indoctrination in this direction to kind of get to equality.
00:35:50.400But now we don't have to pretend what we're looking for is equality anymore.
00:35:56.260We're going to enforce equity and we're going to start doing it not with just, you know, kind of the old school gulags and guns against your back form of force, but new forms of force that are now available through technological and social advancement.
00:36:11.740Yeah, and I think it's also important to note that when we say has captured enough people and the elite to abandon equality, we also have got, you know, mass immigration plays a huge role in that.
00:36:22.400Like, you know, if we can dilute and diminish, as you had tweeted earlier, like if we can just, you know, create a sort of this like black state to consolidate black power in America, and that's totally fine with the regime.
00:36:32.340Like clearly, like you're capitalizing on sort of these like inter-minority interests to capitalize and dilute the power of middle America, which has still been, you know, strongly voting for Trump under our current party system.
00:36:44.480And, you know, the elites are all for it because they long for the day, you know, whether they're writing about the emerging democratic majority or, you know, Congressman Ted Lieu laughing about demographic change.
00:36:55.740Like, it's a way in which they no longer have to play a game about equality.
00:37:01.820It's about diversity, equity, and inclusion to ensure that anything of the old, you know, avenues to resist power are diluted out and crushed in new corporate ways,
00:37:11.980whether that be through, you know, debanking, deplatforming.
00:37:16.240I mean, the list goes on and we've seen them.
00:37:18.560And he mentions this in another tweet responding to someone else, but he's like, it's almost as if the last eight years didn't happen at all when you say these things don't exist,
00:37:26.200when clearly we're witnessing a brand new transformation of our regime.
00:37:30.940And I think that this is a good update from what Land is saying, because it's not, well, it's not that the regime is dying.
00:37:35.960It's just that the mask is off and everyone's kind of recognizing that we're in a totally different state of politics that no one knows what to do with.
00:37:44.220Yeah, and like you said, that concerted effort to bring a change in the electoral system, to change the demographics, to change the voting system,
00:37:54.740make sure mail and ballots are available, make sure that you're diluting the different groups that had been in the country before,
00:38:01.980making sure the democratic system is completely pliable to the will of the party,
00:38:06.580as opposed to have any kind of regional pushback tied to the legacy of people who lived in those areas.
00:38:53.280In the same way that like, you know, their prime minister who had looked like he was really happy
00:38:59.140that he was standing behind the podium, not as the prime minister, but as a Hindu.
00:39:02.240It really does indicate that, you know, all sorts of ways in which there used to be the avenues of power.
00:39:09.000They've been replaced by these new diverse or post-racial, you know, language that they like to use when really it's just another way that they can just openly say,
00:39:18.800no, we just don't want the people that live lived here longer than you to have any political power.
00:39:23.600Well, especially because they're the ones that remember something, right?
00:39:26.600I think they're the ones that had client groups, they had social ties, they had social fabric that existed before the regime.
00:39:34.160And so, yeah, it's like it's like what you've said all the time when you see those pictures where people like crap on the 1950s.
00:39:39.720It's just like we have this decade of U.S. history where it was like really well documented, filmed and televised where people were happy and could live under like one income and have families and kids.
00:39:49.580And that's why they have to rehistoricize it and tell lies about it, because, you know, you have to be miserable and equitable and diverse in this new regime.
00:39:58.020And you have to make sure that there's no there's no group that would understand any truth outside of what the regime would publish.
00:40:04.080Right. You don't have a tradition. You don't have a faith. You don't have a community that allows you to understand anything about what's not being piped through your television.
00:40:12.840Because kind of once you've destroyed all those intervening social institutions, the only way to to enforce social fabric is just mass propaganda.
00:40:20.540Right. And so, you know, you need to eliminate anybody who, you know, you've got to get rid of anybody who remembers when we were at war with South, you know, Southeast Asia or whatever.
00:40:29.720Right. You got you got to disappear anybody who might have who might be behind on their latest NPC update.
00:40:38.400No, no. Oh, well, it's no, there's a really good example of this.
00:40:41.520I don't know if you've covered it yet or in.
00:40:43.200But I mean, like we have two movies now about like corporate biopics, like a fake story about flaming hot Cheetos.
00:40:49.200And there's a movie on Amazon about Air Jordans.
00:40:51.100Like, you know, we have all these new people that have come here to get their fresh update that America is just an economic zone with like a few notable like pop culture brands.
00:41:00.400And so like that's that's our sort of that's the last remnants of soft power culture.
00:41:04.480And even then a lot of people don't buy into it.
00:41:06.720But it really does indicate that maybe these old soft power ways of media and propaganda don't work anymore.
00:41:12.960And we can just, you know, we have to be more forceful because people can watch Barbie and recognize like, no, there's some really nice right wing themes to this.
00:41:20.620And they're like, well, any sort of attempt to make this a feminist, you know, treatise that's got thrown out the window.
00:41:25.500So we got to put some more force into it.
00:41:27.880Yeah, it is kind of wild that the that these they're just these consumerist biopics are replacing any kind of.
00:41:35.000So if you let me tell you something that's depressing because I'm a black pill dispenser.
00:41:39.900But when I used to teach like there are these, you know, these games, there's these quiz games that we would play with the students, you know, to like make sure that, you know, it's like Jeopardy basically.
00:41:50.280And the other, you know, hey, you know, who won this election and what happened at this point in the Civil War, blah, blah, blah.
00:41:56.720And every once in a while, you just throw in a fun one, you know, so that, you know, they'd stay interested.
00:42:01.820So you do one that's on movies or something.
00:42:05.040And they didn't have any idea of shared history.
00:42:07.940If you did one on Christmas, they didn't know the Bible story.
00:42:11.160They didn't know about Mary or Joseph or Bethlehem.
00:42:14.060None of them understood like any of that.
00:42:16.360But if you did corporate brands, everybody was an expert.
00:42:21.200They got super excited about corporate brands.
00:42:24.560And so corporate brands are like this kind of beautiful thing, I guess, or, you know, horrible thing.
00:42:29.200If you're one of these kind of people who's just looking to erase culture and melt it all down into the gray goo, because like, yeah, you might not know anything about actual history.
00:42:38.980You might have no knowledge about you, like your religion, your culture, family, you know, your folkways, anything like that.
00:42:44.640But everybody knows Pepsi, everybody knows Pizza Hut, everybody knows, you know, Nike when it shows up on the screen.
00:42:51.100And the lights, you know, people lighting up that, it's wild.
00:42:54.300But it really is kind of where the culture is going when you've managed to deracinate people that thoroughly.
00:43:00.360Yeah, it's the neoliberal pantheon for you.
00:43:16.420So he's talking about the modern forms of force.
00:43:18.780This means that it's still softer in some ways.
00:43:21.920Its force isn't piling up bodies and ditches, except through anarcho tyranny.
00:43:25.880But it is more interesting in interested in the platforming, the banking, sending sending state agents to tell tech companies what they must ban, that sort of thing.
00:43:37.300So a lot of the power that you were talking about, Prudential, is saying, OK, and I've talked about this, too.
00:43:41.680I did a piece called The Gulag Comes to You, right?
00:43:44.400Putting people in trains, taking them to the work camps.
00:44:11.200And then you don't actually have to go through the messy business of rounding somebody up at gunpoint and sending them off to some godforsaken corner of Siberia.
00:44:21.180But at the same time, the regime is highly more aggressive than the cathedral was and will do things to destroy not only keystones of liberalism that were well accepted just 20 years ago, but also both private citizens and the president of the United States alike very publicly.
00:44:41.420So he's been talking about, okay, well, they have access to these different tools.
00:44:44.820It is softer than traditional totalitarianism.
00:44:47.760But it is a big change from the old, more cathedral-like, this, again, soft power, distributed kind of apparatus of intellectual control, shifting to this more aggressive version where, yes, it's still not, you know, putting the jackboots on.
00:45:04.620It's still not, you know, shipping you off in the trains.
00:45:07.740However, it will go after people very specifically.
00:45:11.460It will destroy key aspects even of things that were central to liberalism, which is kind of the ideology it used to set itself in.
00:45:19.140And it will go after both private citizens and even the president of the United States.
00:45:23.360It's obviously a much more aggressive version of this, which is willing to break boundaries and, in many ways, maybe do things that would be foolish if you're still trying to maintain soft power.
00:45:35.740But it's willing to go much faster and break more things because it's not as concerned with this soft nudge style of control anymore.
00:45:43.620Then he says, this is a massive change, one where media, social, legal, or corporate power can zap you out of existence at any moment.
00:45:56.200Sometimes the cathedral would muster the will to do this.
00:46:00.140But as the regime, it's an everyday thing.
00:46:02.600And I think we're feeling that, right, this change between what was mainly an information-based flow of, okay, propaganda now becomes a personal attack, a public humiliation, struggle sessions, cancellations, firing, debanking, all of those things.
00:46:19.380And like I said earlier, I don't know if it's so much maybe it's exhausted, it's liberal logic or, like, the philosophical endpoints of liberalism.
00:46:30.920I really do wonder if this is more so just a immunological response to the fact that they didn't have their thumbs on the scales as much as they thought they did around 2016.
00:46:42.140Because, I mean, there was no way that that man was supposed to be president of the United States.
00:46:46.660They were flabbergasted, they were surprised, they didn't know what to do.
00:46:49.920And every one of the coming weeks after November in 2016, the answer was, we can never let this happen again.
00:46:56.760And so Biden gets in office after a contentious 2020 election.
00:47:02.000You have, you know, a man arrested for making memes over four years ago.
00:47:06.340You've got, you know, debanking, deplatforming, things that are more explicit and facing on things because they want to ensure never again.
00:47:14.720And I think where Trump says, hey, they're not just after me, they're after you as well.
00:47:19.720We saw that in the Georgia indictment.
00:47:22.380And we saw that also with the alternate electors in Michigan or the Richmond office for the FBI investigating traditional Catholics.
00:47:29.920So, you know, any avenue in which things could be talked about, whether that's, you know, their boogeyman was Trump and the alt-right, you know, now their boogeyman might be, you know, Christian nationalism or traditional Catholicism.
00:47:42.760Anything in which they can see as a potential avenue for a 2016-like moment to have come into existence, they will shut down.
00:47:50.280Because I think that they were really just surprised that actually we don't have all of our thumbs on the scales and somehow this guy got through.
00:48:00.260Man, they want Christian nationalism to be the alt-right so bad.
00:48:14.560Within democracy, everyone can participate, but the cathedral robs people of democracy by deluding them.
00:48:20.840Within democracy under the regime, it's ready to shed those delusions, participate too much, too freely, and you get destroyed outright, removed from participating at all.
00:48:36.900Yes, you technically get to choose your leader.
00:48:39.660However, we're going to manipulate all the information, we're going to control all your understanding, we're going to create the stage, and then really you're probably just going to pick the guy we want.
00:48:49.880But especially post-Trump, when he's not supposed to be there, when the things did not go that way, when that system of reliable kind of controlled management of democracy failed, now they shift to the regime where they are willing to get in there and say,
00:49:04.120yeah, if you are involved in the democracy, yeah, technically you could still legally vote, but we're going to destroy you if you do the wrong thing.
00:49:10.900And again, you can see this very specifically, I think, with the lawyers, the co-conspirators who got indicted with Trump here, right?
00:49:18.940We're not just going after the president, though that would be enough.
00:49:22.000We're also going to destroy anyone who gave him legal counsel, anybody who worked in his administration.
00:49:26.740So it's not just the political candidate himself.
00:49:31.620All of that expert infrastructure, all that managerial infrastructure required to run a modern campaign to actually pose any real opposition to the Democratic Party is being attacked directly.
00:49:45.200So they're not just going after the candidate himself because, you know, he's this one unique, you know, person who was uniquely dangerous and has to be taken away.
00:49:56.140They're going after the entire apparatus.
00:49:58.360They're sending a very clear message to anyone who would really stand against the regime again that, yes, technically you're allowed to participate in politics, but the activity of participating in politics means you will become subject to this judicial process that will destroy your life.
00:50:12.820Yeah, and I think it's a really key difference between sort of like your mom and pop mainstream conservatism, where there is still this acknowledgement of sacredness and rituality towards elections, whereas the left and the regime understands that, you know, they're atheistic about it.
00:50:32.900They know that this is just a bunch of made up kooky laws and BS that we can manipulate for our own ends.
00:50:38.540And so you have one side that fervently believes that there is something like sacred about democracy.
00:51:31.300So the goal was always to create this harder grasp on power, the situation where they no longer had to pretend that they can still do some of the softer coercion things, but they can bring that harder edge to power without having to actually become a full blown totalitarian violent state.
00:51:51.840Now, the question is, can they continue to manage that level of control while not having to cross that line?
00:52:07.960Yeah, I don't know if they can keep it for the long run.
00:52:11.520I think this is why, you know, open borders and, you know, amnesty discussion has been so preeminent here, because if you can permanently have that sort of new underclass that votes for you in a high low versus middle model that you and I have talked about respectively with our own work, then maybe you could keep it.
00:52:30.080Because then the anarcho-tyranny can continue.
00:52:31.980Any opposition where you touch the third rail of politics, whether that be on, you know, racial issues or the enforcement of laws disproportionately towards one group or another, then yeah, like that can be permanently de-platformed, de-banked, de-personed, etc.
00:52:46.360But for now, I don't know, because there has been so much discussion about, like, getting the heck out of cities or understanding that things are only going to get worse and that you need to prepare accordingly.
00:52:58.480But eventually, you know, it's the same thing with, say, like the concept of bio-Leninism, like either you A, run out of people to bring in, or B, it becomes really difficult to manage, you know, all these sort of, you know, inter-minority coalitions that you're trying to balance.
00:53:13.780Because, like, you know, we can spend months talking about anti-Asian Pacific Islander hate and everything, but it's hard for people to look at what they're saying and then try and, you know, not believe their lying eyes when they say one thing on the media.
00:53:27.220And then they walk someone else of a totally different complexion, beat them, you know, in the streets of New York or in the subway.
00:53:32.540So I will see. But I do think that one thing that would accelerate that way of maintaining this new form of coercive leftism is going to be some kind of way to, you know, just bring more people in and, you know, bring in amnesty, bring in a pathway to set a citizenship and do so.
00:53:48.720And that's one of the things that I was really pleasantly surprised to see on the recent Blaze Summit that you guys had in Iowa was just that you guys were talking about the fact that not only do you need a wall, but you need to deport these people.
00:53:59.680And that has to be in some mainstream platform going forward when having these discussions.
00:54:04.220Because if not, the complete dilution of, you know, American political power as we once knew it will disappear and they'll be able to maintain this form of coercion for as long as they want to.
00:54:15.200So, yeah, if you if you don't like your current voting base, you can always just hire a new one.
00:54:19.740And that's that's kind of the plan, I think, for for most of the Democratic Party.
00:54:24.860So stopping that trend, reversing that trend is is critical if you want to have any hope of of stopping the plan that they've kind of openly bragged about repeatedly in the pages of The New York Times and elsewhere.
00:54:36.760All right. So let's head over to our to our questions of the people.
00:54:41.800But before we do Prudentialist, where should people be looking for your excellent work?
00:54:45.880Yes, as always, Oren, thank you for having me on. It's always a pleasure.
00:54:48.500You can find me over on YouTube as YouTube dot com slash at the Prudentialist.
00:54:52.380I'll be over there and you can find all of my links at find my friends dot net slash the Prudentialist.
00:54:57.340I'm on Twitter, YouTube, Telegram, Odyssey, Rumble, any sort of social media platform you can think of and, you know, video hosting site.
00:55:03.600I'm probably there. And by all means, head on over to the channel.
00:55:07.740We just have a brand new lecture discussing William Appelman Williams empire is a way of life, taking a look at sort of the tragedy of U.S. policy and foreign affairs.
00:55:16.180So if you're into that sort of stuff, by all means, check out what I do.
00:55:19.580Excellent. All right. Let's head over here.
00:55:21.640Our first question from Pharmacel for ten dollars.
00:55:24.580Thank you very much. Concentrating black people into one or two states would hurt the regime because every red state has a blue city with many black presidents, which were election fortification can happen.
00:55:35.660Yeah. For those who don't know, we kind of mentioned this article in passing, but we didn't really get details.
00:55:41.100I might do that later on here in a video.
00:55:43.400But Charles Blow basically gave an idea saying that basically all black people should move to a couple states so they can have total control of them and consolidate political power there.
00:55:53.160Again, something that if you said about white people or anything or Christians or anything, people would lose their absolute minds.
00:55:59.500But, you know, hypocrisy. How does it work? Right. We've gone over this a million times.
00:56:04.360But yeah, I see what you're saying there. Obviously.
00:56:07.560Yeah, I don't think that's actually anything that the regime wants.
00:56:13.980Like there is a this this is useful as a shibboleth, not as an actual, you know, there's no problems that the regime wants to solve for black America.
00:56:26.620But it is useful to use them as a bludgeon to to be able to threaten different things, you know, to tell the community that they're going to deliver certain things and then, you know, garner kind of support that kind of way.
00:56:38.380They don't want to distribute or they want that distributed more than they want to concentrate it because, you know, then, you know, they wouldn't be able to use it in the same way.
00:56:46.720So I think you're right that that's something the regime would avoid for sure.
00:56:51.780Yeah, I don't find it to be anything that would actually happen.
00:56:55.180It's the same thing that happened. I think I think it's a Washington Post op ed from 2011.
00:56:59.480It's quite a few years old at this point, 2011 or 2013, where they said, well, really, the solution to institutional racism is to give blacks five thirds the vote.
00:57:08.380And so, I mean, like clearly these sort of language games and these sort of platitudinal like idea of like giving them the sort of political power, it's more of a carrot to keep them in line in the same way that when then Vice President Joe Biden was campaigning in 2012, he had threatened black voters that Mitt Romney would put them back in chains.
00:57:27.100You know, like it's that's a that article. It's nothing more than sort of the carrot stick thing that you see all the time.
00:57:34.280Yeah, everyone said once every few years, they have to remind people that milquetoast Mitt Romney is just a just one year away from re enslaving, you know, 15% of the population.
00:57:47.200David Tavares here. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you for sharing this type of content with us. Absolutely appreciate you coming by.
00:57:54.720Jacob here for $10 a bit off topic, Oren, but it seems to be Oren seems to be one of the most vocal in the directing slow collapse,
00:58:02.800as where Hayward seems to think it will happen fairly soon. Has there been or could there be a conversation on this?
00:58:09.520Well, I've had Charles on at least twice for the channel, and certainly I'll have him on, I'm sure, at some point in the future.
00:58:16.680He's a great guest. Charles is most certainly of the like quick run collapse doomerism camp there.
00:58:24.500I wouldn't say I'm on the slow collapse camp. I would say I'm more in the medium, more in the medium, a generation or two, as opposed to, you know, Charles, who's like, it's going to happen in the next five to 10 years.
00:58:36.360That seems a little, a little fast for me. But then there are plenty of people who say it's either never going to happen or, you know, someone like mold bug who says, you know, could be 100 or more years before it would happen.
00:58:46.840And so I would put myself a little more in that medium camp, but I would be more than happy to have that discussion with Charles at some point or bring it up next time he's on the channel.
00:58:55.240Yeah, I mean, Charles has got a good piece about how fragile the regime really is. It's only, I think, less than a year old. It's really well worth your time in reading.
00:59:05.580But yeah, I mean, I don't know if you guys have had that conversation on that piece directly, but it would be a good one to have about the sort of timeline of collapse, because everyone and their mother has got their predictions.
00:59:16.780And I feel like a lot of people just end up turning into the Millerites when they make these into the world type, you know, pontifications.
00:59:23.540Yep. Let's see here. Creeper weirdo for $5. Richmond north of Richmond was a right wing viewpoint and feeling like Barbie is a S post.
00:59:34.720I don't know. We'll just censor ourselves for today to own the libs. And I'm tired of being gaslit.
00:59:42.840So, yeah, I haven't broken into this because I the discourse on this is I feel been a little silly on all sides.
00:59:51.280I haven't seen Barbie. I don't know anything about it other than people told me it might be secretly based.
00:59:56.420I'm not going to watch it. I'm sorry. I'm not going to do it for the content grind.
01:00:00.100The north of Richmond thing is I mean, I like the song.
01:00:05.620I like bluegrass and is a good kind of bluegrassy country song.
01:00:09.740So I enjoyed it. Some people were like, oh, well, it talks about the rich not being great.
01:00:16.020So or class struggle. So it's really subversive. I don't think that is the case.
01:00:20.340I mean, the guy came out very specifically. I always read it this way, but he came out very specifically and said, no, I'm just talking about politicians in Washington, D.C.
01:00:26.960Like I'm not talking about class struggle or the rich in general, however you want to look at that.
01:00:34.240I thought it was a good song. But yes, it was a very weird moment where a lot of people got angry and called the feminist pink movie about a toy.
01:00:43.960Toy, the the right wing movie of the year while calling us a song about degenerate Washington politicians, a left wing screed against the rightism.
01:00:55.460But yeah, that was a cultural moment that occurred on Twitter.com.
01:00:58.560Sure, sure did. Yeah. I mean, I don't really have too strong of an opinion on music in part because I'm someone who unironically likes Streetlight Manifesto and other ska bands.
01:01:06.880But I mean, outside of that, I think that when he's talking about, you know, obese people who milk welfare, like I'm that's a that's a right wing coded song.
01:01:14.120Like, you're keyed in. I don't need to worry about your politics.
01:01:17.360Just don't turn this person into an idol who doesn't match your like really highly online niche ideology one for one.
01:01:24.580Like you need to be a little less concerned about ideological purity because there's plenty of people I don't agree with on the Internet that I still think whose work is really good.
01:01:34.340So you should probably take that into consideration.
01:01:36.140I mean, I watched Barbie for free. Someone bought my ticket for me.
01:01:39.740They said they couldn't go. I watched it.
01:01:41.120I mean, yeah, the coolest part is where Ken like learns that actually no patriarchy is based.
01:01:45.720And we take over this imaginary world where only in an imaginary land does feminism work out.
01:01:50.420But I mean, it still has its own problems.
01:01:52.320But it's a fun way for the right to, you know, instead of death of the author, we hijack the author's intent and we make it our own thing.
01:01:59.440And that's an example of what Nick Land was talking about, right?
01:02:02.100Where we get rid of the middleman, we get rid of the intermediaries.
01:02:22.280I work with several major corporations since the lockdowns and riots, and I've noticed workers and contractors just ignore HR and safety departments.
01:02:32.520I mean, that would be a great thing if true.
01:02:35.880I think there's certainly a lot of sometimes things just have to get done, especially in very particular areas, and they just blow past that stuff and everyone turns a blind eye.
01:02:50.040That's still not a good long-term plan because I know what you're talking about.
01:02:55.600Yeah, okay. Normally, we put things through HR. Normally, we go through the process, but there's a natural disaster. The lights have to turn on, blah, blah, blah, so we'll just ignore it and get the work done.
01:03:05.700But the continued existence of those organizations, it means eventually they kind of warm their way into everything. The fact that people have to blow them off, that they have to worm their way around them, they still have to do the dance, that is itself a problem.
01:03:20.040But, I mean, it's good to know if at least some degree there is some pushback. Hopefully, that's a wider thing, but I think the continued existence of those departments still bodes poorly for those organizations.
01:03:30.820Yeah, I mean, like, we kind of just ignore what HR has to say when I get to work from home, and it's just like, ah, well, you know, like, I can roll my eyes at it, but, like, at the end of the day, that person still has their job, and these meetings are still mandatory.
01:03:44.320It's cool that we can kind of, like, roll our eyes and be like, yeah, this lady's got a BS job or whatever, but that BS job is still a sign of political power and patronage, and so until all HR and diversity offices are permanently destroyed, they still have the power.
01:03:57.040That's right. It gets raised to the ground. That's how you know.
01:04:02.280Let's see here. We've got SkepticalPanda for $5. A little support from my favorite base streamer. Well, thank you very much, sir. Absolutely appreciate that. Thank you for coming by.
01:04:12.400Let's see. We've got Philip Daniel here for $5. Would it not be in the case to be simpler for the government to dissolve the people and elect another? Yep.
01:04:20.540A classic and absolutely true thing that is, you know, 100% happening. Liberal democracies have figured out the problem, and the problem is the Democratic voting base.
01:04:32.920So if you can get rid of them, then you can decide what actually is going to happen without much effort.
01:04:39.100Glow in the dark for $5. I wouldn't say the cathedral is dying. I would say it's changing and cutting off parts that aren't as effective anymore.
01:04:45.440Or soft glove out Iron Gauntlet in. Yeah, I think that there's a decent consensus between Prudentialist and I and obviously the thread there that we're seeing a metamorphosis, an evolution, you know, where things that don't work anymore are falling away.
01:05:02.000And that would, again, make sense because the character of the people is changing. The technology is changing. Of course, it's going to adapt. Of course, it's going to try different things.
01:05:09.700I do think, however, there are some stability problems that are emerging. Again, I just wrote a book about it, and it'll come out soon. So I'm not going to dive into it today.
01:05:20.800But I don't think it's all just the cathedral is adapting, just it's transforming into the regime, and it's going to have the thousand-year rule here. I don't think that's exactly how that's going to work. But you are right that the adaptations are coming.
01:05:34.180Yeah, and I think that point that you made about technology is really important. Like, people didn't just read, like, Alul or Lippman or Edward Bernays and then put them up on a high bookshelf somewhere.
01:05:45.000No, those readings and those social technologies got refined and turned into, like, the most disastrous and destroying weaponized psyops known to man. And here we are.
01:05:55.180So, Will Kortet here for $10. What would be your ideal economic policy? It seems like you have been critical of Mises' free market ideas in general, but would love to hear some clarity on that issue.
01:06:09.700Yeah, so to be clear, I'm not the economics guy. I'm not going to pretend to be the economics guy. I think there's actually a problem with being the economics guy.
01:06:18.880You know, Carlisle called it the dismal science for a reason. I think it makes it difficult for you to see humanity as a whole.
01:06:27.320While it can provide you powerful insights on very specific things about humanity and its organization, and I'm not denying that those things can be valuable,
01:06:36.660treating it as a be-all, end-all or a kind of a mass universal way to understand mankind, his social organization, his well-being, is a problem.
01:06:46.220That doesn't mean that there aren't just, like, hard laws of economics in the same way that there are hard laws to some degree, you know, of physics.
01:06:55.400I mean, I don't think the laws in economics are anywhere as hard as the, you know, real sciences.
01:07:01.220But I'm not saying those things couldn't exist.
01:07:03.400But I'm saying there does need to be an orientation to and a recognition of who the economy is in service of.
01:07:10.340The big problem with, I think, many of the free marketeers who are still pushing a lot of that stuff is while they might be right about incentives,
01:07:17.260they're often still just thinking of economics as, like, this free movement.
01:07:22.860You know, every group of people is fungible.
01:07:25.380It doesn't really matter what the actual practical application of these things is in people's lives.
01:07:35.300So, like, yeah, maybe my, you know, TVs are cheaper that are coming over from China.
01:07:41.340Maybe in some ways there's some ease or comfort in the ability to invest in certain things.
01:07:47.820But at the end of the day, if it's making me and my neighbor sadder, if we can't, if they're not employed, if they can't have families,
01:07:54.080they can't have religious communities.
01:07:55.180I don't care how, like, fluid my markets are.
01:07:58.120And so I think it's more of a readjustment of priorities rather than adhering to one particular economic system and its outcomes.
01:08:06.560Yeah, my views are very similar to yours, Oren.
01:08:09.100Like, I think of markets, and I think in a more localized form of mom-and-pop stores rather than watching the state arbitrarily determine, you know,
01:08:18.680actually, no, we're going to have this anarcho-tyranny on an economic scale, and I'm not a fan of that either.
01:08:23.420But at the same time, right, like, we're so overburdened by a regulatory state, I definitely understand where the free marketeers are coming from.
01:08:30.800And like you, I'm not an economics guy.
01:08:33.660I mean, there's this, I think this false thing where, like, if you are not for every access of libertarian, the libertarian conception of markets,
01:08:43.980then you are some kind of socialist or Marxist or something.
01:08:47.660I find that kind of a silly way to understand things.
01:08:51.580But, again, I think it's about a reorientation of priorities.
01:08:56.460You know, if you want to jump on the Ben Shapiro thing and say, well, these are just economic realities, and that's how it's always going to be.
01:09:03.220And so you just have to let your communities die and let people become childless because that's just, you know, the outcome of the free market.
01:09:10.700Well, fine, but sorry, I'm not your friend.
01:09:12.360Raphael, I'm sorry, I'm not going to say the rest of your name because I will destroy it, but I am very grateful for your donation.
01:09:20.720Is the masked man dying along with the cathedral, or do you see the mass society enduring beyond the lifespan of the consent manufacturing machine?
01:09:29.640Well, I think that's a great question, man.
01:09:31.020So I think the answer to that is that the cathedral helped produce the masked man, but it's no longer sufficient to govern the masked man, which is why I think we're seeing that transition to the regime.
01:09:42.180Because once the cathedral stripped out kind of all of these individual folkways, these individual traditions, these individual communities that would have grounded people in something approaching a natural law, a natural way of being, something that's closer to kind of the organic expression of their community, you could no longer manage people with the same kind of soft power that you had in the cathedral.
01:10:07.620You needed some more of that hard power.
01:10:09.980You needed to bring a harsher edge to things, and you were also able to, because again, there's no longer of that cultural friction, those traditional frictions, those opposing social spheres that would have pushed back against you.
01:10:21.240So I think that the cathedral kind of transitioning into the regime is not a signal that the masked man is going anywhere, but more that the masked man has come and is now, you know, kind of completely deracinated.
01:10:35.000And so a new way of governing the masked man is now capable.
01:10:38.860So I think that you will continuing, you will continue to see the masked man, and you will still see the consent manufacturing machine, but the consent manufacturing machine will use more aggressive and more forceful tactics, along with many of the ones that were part of the softer liberalism of the cathedral.
01:10:56.980Yeah, like that mask, I mean, like Revolt to the Masses is still a book well worth your time by Jose Ortega, where sort of that word masked man comes from.
01:11:05.380But like, I think as Walter Lippmann described in public opinion, that we're all sort of forced into our own pseudo realities, right?
01:11:13.980And I think that the internet has only accelerated that we're not in this sort of McLuhan global village, right?
01:11:19.120We, we all live in our own niche spaces, Twitter is a big platform that anyone can use, but it has its own niche ecosystems for politics, media, culture, you know, fandom, etc.
01:11:29.140And so maybe masked man, as we know it may die, but it may evolve in just these own niche bubbles that the regime will try and penetrate every which way it can.
01:11:39.580I mean, that was a big thing out of the Doug Mackey trial, right, was that some anonymous poster by the name of microchip, you know, turned against him and testified for the federal government.
01:11:47.540And like, you know, if you've got people that are willing to do that, or to be, you know, feds themselves, then the masked man is a perpetually surveilled man, it doesn't matter what his predilections, tastes or sexuality may be, he's just going to be the kind of man that, you know, has his things, he reads his paper, he watches his favorite YouTubers, but at the end of the day, there is someone out there trying to affect his decision making skills.
01:12:10.840And then finally, let's see, sign over the X for five Canadian. Thank you very much, sir.
01:12:19.600Oren, would you be interested in making a video about each of Pareto's residue classes?
01:12:24.820Yeah, that's a good question. One of the things that I've been doing, and I don't know if people have noticed, but, you know, originally, when I first started the channel, a lot of the stuff did not have explanations or didn't have more concise explanations.
01:12:38.000And so I went through and I kind of gave broad overviews of thinkers, guys like Nick Land, like Curtis Yarvin, like Pareto or Mosk or these kind of people.
01:12:48.760But now that I've got more time, you know, I can I do this full time, I'm not just trying to like sneak a video in every week under the gun, I can take some more time and go back to these thinkers and do them in more detail.
01:13:01.060That's why we're going through people like Nick Land in far more detail than we're able to do before.
01:13:07.100And so Pareto is certainly one I want to get to. The interesting about Pareto, of course, he has this entire vast sociological system.
01:13:14.080Society in the Mind is four volumes. You know, you can get the compendium, which is easier.
01:13:19.480That's got most of the critical things you'll need for the political stuff.
01:13:22.740But his his true kind of work on sociology is is massive.
01:13:27.760So it's hard to know where to to kind of start there. But the the residues is probably a good place.
01:13:33.140So I might not get into every aspect of every residue.
01:13:36.820And I have focused really on only the first two due to their kind of political implications.
01:13:41.280But yeah, it is likely that at some point I will be able to find the time to get in there and kind of break down the the ones that are less relevant immediately to our political situation, but are still very important to understand is sociology.
01:13:54.120So it is a good idea. It's something probably not in the near future, but but I will get to there eventually.
01:14:00.940All right, guys, well, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up.
01:14:03.840Of course, I want to thank the Prudentialist for coming by and excellent co-host as always.
01:14:08.500And I think we've got all our super chats. Just want to make sure.
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