The Auron MacIntyre Show - Julian the Apostate： Can Old Religions Be Revived？｜ Guest： Alex Petkas

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00:00:30.180 Hey everybody, how's it going?

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00:01:13.900 All right, guys, I want to dive into the idea of a society in transition.

00:01:21.780 A lot of people have looked at the United States.

00:01:24.100 They see a lot of, you know, different comparisons to make to the Roman Empire.

00:01:29.680 Some say it's the end of the Roman Republic.

00:01:32.520 Some say it's the end of the Roman Empire.

00:01:34.080 It depends on where you want to place it.

00:01:35.820 But a critical thing that happened, of course, in the Roman Empire was the movement from its classic pagan religion to Christianity.

00:01:44.540 And one emperor that presided over that was Julian the Apostate,

00:01:48.680 trying to push back against a tide of change in religion during kind of the end,

00:01:54.660 the approach towards the end of his empire.

00:01:57.640 So I wanted to look into those events.

00:01:59.260 I wanted to see what we could learn from that transition is where did he succeed?

00:02:04.200 Where did he fail?

00:02:05.240 What did he get wrong?

00:02:06.600 Is there anything that we can learn and take in the future?

00:02:09.180 I want to dive also into some very interesting side events that people often talk about,

00:02:13.760 like Julian attempting to disprove the Bible by building a third Jewish temple,

00:02:20.760 trying to prove Christ's predictions wrong.

00:02:23.360 So joining me to talk to you about that today is a classics professor.

00:02:28.060 He has a Ph.D. from Princeton, but he stepped away from academia to host the Cost of Glory podcast.

00:02:35.880 Alex, thanks for coming on, man.

00:02:39.860 I think you got muted there again.

00:02:43.960 Great to be here, Oren.

00:02:46.240 Absolutely.

00:02:47.060 So before we dive into the history and the parallels and what we can learn from it,

00:02:51.860 I wonder if you could give people a little bit of your background,

00:02:55.020 how you started your podcast, why you moved away from academia,

00:02:59.060 what your bona fides are in this area.

00:03:02.680 Yeah.

00:03:02.980 So I was a tenure track professor in California.

00:03:07.400 I was sort of gradually getting fed up with the academic consensus.

00:03:14.740 You know, I had great colleagues and there are a lot of good people left in the university system.

00:03:18.460 But, you know, a lot of us saw the writing on the wall and there's just a general hatred of greatness.

00:03:24.780 And especially among classics professors, a kind of growing ignorance,

00:03:31.820 stuffing of one's ears to what our tradition and our discipline is really all about,

00:03:37.780 in my opinion, which is like fortifying manly greatness and political excellence

00:03:42.940 and kind of digging deep to the roots and knowing what our culture is really about

00:03:47.020 and the strong foundations that it was built on.

00:03:49.100 So I left in 2020 and decided to try to get the message out in a more efficient way.

00:03:58.260 I saw the rise of new media, started my podcast, Cost of Glory,

00:04:02.220 where I am basically retelling the biographies of Plutarch's heroes in kind of long, long form,

00:04:09.280 trying to stay true to the spirit of Plutarch by not just like telling these stories

00:04:14.440 and looking at these men, but drawing lessons from them.

00:04:16.980 And also, you know, this idea that we should try to emulate them is completely inappropriate

00:04:21.320 and not cool and don't say that in a classic department.

00:04:25.240 But I think that the founding fathers had it right.

00:04:27.860 Machiavelli had it right.

00:04:29.000 You know, so many of the ancients had it right.

00:04:31.500 This is how they looked at their own classical tradition, that it's, you know, monuments of greatness.

00:04:35.760 This is how the Nietzsche looked at the classical tradition.

00:04:38.340 And so I'm trying to kind of revive that spirit in a digestible way

00:04:42.380 and, you know, bring back these biographies of some of the greatest men who ever lived.

00:04:46.980 And that's so important.

00:04:48.360 You know, I look at academia.

00:04:50.880 I'm somebody who enjoyed schooling and thought about going into this kind of thing.

00:04:56.600 But the more I looked at it, I said, there's just no place for anyone who has a more classical understanding

00:05:02.120 of history has, you know, the idea that perhaps a more right-wing view should be brought about in these.

00:05:08.980 And you're one of so many guys like Michael Millerman and Athenian Stranger and others

00:05:13.520 who have been in academia, have wanted to go down that track, you know, are well-spoken,

00:05:19.020 gifted, thoughtful about these issues, but end up finding that actually real freedom

00:05:23.740 is outside the academy at this point in many ways.

00:05:27.500 And I think it's great that there's a movement of that.

00:05:29.880 Yeah, yeah.

00:05:30.540 All the exciting intellectual life now seems to be happening on and around the internet.

00:05:35.260 So I think that's just going to accelerate, which I'm thrilled about.

00:05:38.760 Absolutely.

00:05:39.300 Well, we're going to dive deeper into the question of Julian,

00:05:42.020 the transition from paganism to Christianity, and what a civilization can do in these moments.

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00:07:07.380 All right, Alex, so I think a lot of people have touched, obviously,

00:07:13.260 on the subject of the rise of Christianity in the Roman Empire.

00:07:17.700 We could write entire books about this, do entire series.

00:07:21.040 So I'm going to short shrift you a little bit on this,

00:07:23.280 but can you just give us an overview?

00:07:26.780 Christianity goes from a persecuted religion.

00:07:29.860 We're feeding Christians to lions, burning them as torches,

00:07:33.040 and then it becomes basically the religion of the empire.

00:07:38.080 Can you give us kind of a short history before we get, say,

00:07:41.320 to kind of that Constantinian period of history?

00:07:45.880 Yeah, so a lot of things Christianity has going for it that help it to grow.

00:07:50.420 By the time Constantine in 313 legalizes it,

00:07:54.360 it's probably, people estimate maybe 10% of people in the Roman Empire

00:07:57.920 are Christians, so it's a growing, intransigent minority,

00:08:03.820 as Nassim Taleb would put it.

00:08:05.680 But so, you know, the persecution of martyrs, very visible.

00:08:10.460 They're, you know, put on display in the arena often,

00:08:13.600 and, you know, it's a great way of getting the message out, actually.

00:08:17.140 Also, Christians are, you know, anti-abortion.

00:08:20.120 They tend to outbreed the pagans.

00:08:22.400 I think it's an important thing to keep in mind.

00:08:24.220 And one of the things that Julian noticed is the way that the Christians

00:08:29.040 would minister to the needy, to the orphans, the widows, the poor.

00:08:35.180 They had a very efficient, effective philanthropy machine

00:08:39.760 that helped them to get the word out to the masses.

00:08:42.920 And you start to see not just the poor,

00:08:45.480 but, you know, middle and upper class people here and there,

00:08:48.960 especially in the third century,

00:08:50.840 starting to convert to Christianity.

00:08:52.720 And it's probably because of this rise of interest in Christianity

00:08:57.260 that the later Roman emperors before Constantine,

00:09:01.600 guys like Diocletian, Galerius, Maxentius,

00:09:04.760 they initiate these empire-wide persecutions

00:09:08.340 that weren't really, they were kind of sporadic before then

00:09:11.540 and localized.

00:09:12.920 But in the late third century, they become empire-wide,

00:09:16.380 you know, massive thousands of martyrs dying

00:09:19.700 and edicts going out all across the empire.

00:09:22.640 You know, the army has got a lot of Christians in it,

00:09:25.180 a lot of persecutions there.

00:09:27.000 And so that's, it's kind of a shocking for the Christians

00:09:31.820 when Constantine takes power

00:09:33.380 and he professes himself to be a Christian.

00:09:35.080 Like, they've just gone through hell,

00:09:37.320 like the worst that they've ever seen in history.

00:09:39.920 But it just hasn't been effective at stomping out the new religion.

00:09:43.580 If anything, it's sort of helped to promote it.

00:09:45.580 So that's the situation that Constantine walks into in 312, 313 AD.

00:09:52.460 Now, Christianity couldn't have been the first new religion

00:09:55.440 to arise inside the Roman Empire

00:09:58.440 or a foreign religion that gained some sway there.

00:10:02.220 Were there any other examples?

00:10:03.920 Had they ever had to push back against another religion in this way?

00:10:08.180 What do you think set Christianity apart

00:10:10.460 as something that was successful

00:10:11.620 in kind of finding its way into not just, you know,

00:10:14.920 the lower echelon, but eventually the upper echelon?

00:10:17.580 Well, the Christians are intransigent,

00:10:19.860 so they don't tolerate you,

00:10:21.720 if you're a good Christian in good standing,

00:10:23.940 to be going to pagan sacrifices, pagan, you know,

00:10:27.500 so much of the meat eating in antiquity

00:10:29.460 is around pagan sacrifices.

00:10:32.000 So it's kind of a big deal.

00:10:33.400 It's a very prohibitive life choice.

00:10:35.860 And so I think that kind of galvanizes a common identity.

00:10:40.280 And also they have this doctrine of the body of Christ

00:10:43.820 and the fellowship of all believers.

00:10:45.660 We're all sons of God.

00:10:46.780 They have a strong, strong common identity

00:10:48.880 and theological reasons for that.

00:10:51.320 They have ways of policing who's in and who's out

00:10:53.700 through excommunication.

00:10:55.780 They already have church councils.

00:10:57.240 They're very organized.

00:10:58.460 So there are, you know,

00:10:59.240 the Jews are a kind of counterexample

00:11:02.240 who do proselytize some,

00:11:04.560 but nothing like the Christians.

00:11:05.960 And there's just not this sense of, you know,

00:11:09.740 being a Christian by blood,

00:11:11.960 like everybody has to be baptized.

00:11:13.780 And I'm baptized as the fifth generation Christian,

00:11:18.580 and I'm no more Christian than the guy

00:11:20.840 who just converted off the street.

00:11:22.800 There are things like the cult of Mithras

00:11:24.340 and various other kind of mystery cults

00:11:27.080 that are popular,

00:11:27.860 but generally they have this pagan character.

00:11:30.640 They don't have that intransigent element

00:11:32.160 where, you know, a guy can be,

00:11:34.760 especially in the army,

00:11:35.920 the cult of Mithras is very popular,

00:11:37.780 you know, sacrificing bulls

00:11:39.360 and standing under them

00:11:40.240 and letting the blood drench you

00:11:41.500 is some nice elaborate rituals in Mithraism.

00:11:44.620 But they tend to be very harmonious.

00:11:46.780 And like, you can also go

00:11:48.240 and attend the cult of Zeus or Artemis

00:11:51.820 in your local city.

00:11:52.760 It's just not as disruptive as Christianity.

00:11:55.740 Yeah, I didn't realize this

00:11:57.700 until I read Festel Kalange's The Ancient City.

00:12:02.940 You know, you think about the story

00:12:05.060 of Daniel in the Bible

00:12:06.000 and he can't eat the Babylonian meat

00:12:09.100 because it's been sacrificed to an idol.

00:12:10.940 And, you know, as a kid, I just assumed,

00:12:12.300 oh, well, because it was sacrificed to an idol

00:12:13.900 and that that's sufficient.

00:12:15.060 You don't recognize that actually,

00:12:16.360 no, this is actually part of a ritual

00:12:18.100 that enters you into communion

00:12:19.740 with the city of the God of the city.

00:12:22.660 It's binding the entire population together.

00:12:25.420 So you're not just like eating some meat

00:12:27.540 that was, you know, burned before some pagan idol.

00:12:30.100 You're actually joining in

00:12:31.580 and becoming part of the society

00:12:33.300 when you do this.

00:12:34.240 And this is, you know, meat being much harder

00:12:37.280 to eat at that time.

00:12:38.460 And, you know, it's much more significant event.

00:12:40.340 So it's just one of those things

00:12:41.680 I didn't recognize of how holistic

00:12:43.740 the entire consumption of that was

00:12:46.120 and how the refusal to be a part of that,

00:12:48.300 as you say, you know, really sets you apart

00:12:50.720 in a way that we probably wouldn't grasp today

00:12:53.880 when it just like, oh, I won't do communion

00:12:56.240 or something like it's a very different thing.

00:12:58.700 Yeah.

00:12:58.860 And like in a big city like Rome,

00:13:00.560 there's the, you know,

00:13:01.280 you can spend the entire year day after day

00:13:03.620 going to different religious festivals

00:13:06.040 and local neighborhoods.

00:13:08.080 And, you know, it really is ubiquitous.

00:13:11.080 The polytheistic old system of antiquity,

00:13:14.980 it's embedded in art.

00:13:16.700 And it's like the Christian really takes

00:13:18.560 this kind of decided stance against all of that.

00:13:21.520 And so I think you also, that's an important factor.

00:13:24.440 Like you tend to just attract

00:13:26.280 really intense people, right?

00:13:28.380 Like that matters a lot.

00:13:31.000 So as you say, you know,

00:13:33.220 Constantine is legalizing it.

00:13:35.400 He doesn't make it the official religion

00:13:37.520 that comes later,

00:13:38.420 but this is definitely something

00:13:39.700 that's normalizing.

00:13:40.660 A lot of people have, you know,

00:13:42.400 pointed to his focus on Sol Invictus previously.

00:13:46.820 And kind of there's this gradient of history.

00:13:51.040 Again, another thing I found fascinating

00:13:53.120 about Fustel Kalonja's book

00:13:55.100 of the unification of gods, right?

00:13:58.420 The unification of gods

00:13:59.660 is also the unification of the state.

00:14:02.300 And so when every family has its own hearth,

00:14:06.760 you know, fire,

00:14:08.120 when every tribe has its own rituals

00:14:10.940 and its own gods,

00:14:12.640 that has to eventually be collapsed

00:14:14.260 in kind of some of these larger goddesses

00:14:16.200 like Diana and others

00:14:17.200 so that you can have

00:14:18.460 a more centralized state

00:14:19.700 inside of the city state.

00:14:21.840 And then, you know,

00:14:23.020 the kind of pull then

00:14:25.040 to come towards monotheism

00:14:26.580 is another step down this road

00:14:28.240 because now you combine

00:14:29.400 the multiple cultures

00:14:30.780 under these branches.

00:14:33.100 So maybe this was already inevitable

00:14:35.140 just from a power position,

00:14:37.260 no matter how people feel

00:14:38.440 about the religious aspects.

00:14:39.720 But where does Julian come in

00:14:42.820 in this process?

00:14:43.820 After Constantine's death,

00:14:46.360 what is the status of Christianity

00:14:48.120 and how is he coming to power

00:14:50.080 in this moment?

00:14:51.400 Yeah, so let's see.

00:14:53.940 So Julian is a half-nephew of Constantine.

00:14:58.900 Constantine's dad had several wives

00:15:01.060 and it was from a different wife

00:15:02.800 that Julian's dad was born.

00:15:05.440 And he's born in 331.

00:15:09.780 So the empire under Constantine,

00:15:13.100 you know, it's not like

00:15:13.760 everybody converts at once.

00:15:15.240 It does become the official,

00:15:16.780 the unofficial official religion.

00:15:19.160 You know, if the emperor is a Christian,

00:15:21.100 it pays to be a Christian.

00:15:22.540 He's favoring Christians in promotion.

00:15:25.600 He's attending church councils.

00:15:27.460 He's, you know, making at least a pretense

00:15:29.420 of getting into their theological arguments.

00:15:31.420 And he's shaking hands with bishops,

00:15:33.240 these guys who were, you know,

00:15:34.840 at the brink of, you know,

00:15:36.140 extermination in many cases before.

00:15:39.580 But, you know, across the empire,

00:15:43.280 there are, you know, pagans,

00:15:46.160 town counselors, local elites,

00:15:49.980 local nobles.

00:15:51.720 The aristocracy of Rome

00:15:53.060 is still largely pagan.

00:15:55.280 So there's still a really interesting

00:15:58.240 religious blend.

00:15:59.800 But I think what really is interesting

00:16:02.900 for understanding Julian,

00:16:04.640 so Julian Raines,

00:16:05.540 360, 361 to 363.

00:16:08.800 So you've always been picky

00:16:09.980 about your produce.

00:16:11.400 But now you find yourself

00:16:12.440 checking every label

00:16:13.300 to make sure it's Canadian.

00:16:15.380 So be it.

00:16:16.640 At Sobeys,

00:16:17.520 we always pick guaranteed fresh

00:16:19.140 Canadian produce first.

00:16:20.720 Restrictions apply.

00:16:21.640 See in-store or online for details.

00:16:23.400 So he's coming of age in this world

00:16:30.000 also under a lot of

00:16:33.280 kind of, you might say,

00:16:34.980 persecution himself

00:16:35.820 from other members of his family.

00:16:37.240 So when Constantine dies,

00:16:38.980 337,

00:16:40.240 after a very long reign,

00:16:41.860 right,

00:16:42.040 he's been emperor for

00:16:43.360 since basically 312 to 337,

00:16:47.140 33 years or so.

00:16:48.440 So he dies.

00:16:51.880 And then his sons,

00:16:53.020 who are adults at that time,

00:16:54.400 Constantius and Constance,

00:16:58.020 they basically,

00:16:59.540 especially Constantius,

00:17:01.160 they go on this purge

00:17:02.960 to eradicate any threats

00:17:05.780 within the imperial family

00:17:07.080 to the throne.

00:17:08.400 And Constantius is,

00:17:10.520 basically murders

00:17:11.540 most of Julian's family.

00:17:13.780 He murders his dad

00:17:15.140 and, you know,

00:17:16.300 cousins

00:17:16.780 and, you know,

00:17:18.140 tries to extirpate

00:17:19.700 any threat.

00:17:21.780 And so Julian

00:17:22.900 kind of comes of age

00:17:24.340 under the reign of Constantius,

00:17:25.780 who becomes a sole emperor

00:17:27.040 in 341, I think.

00:17:29.280 And he's

00:17:30.760 kind of always got

00:17:32.240 this sort of Damocles

00:17:33.240 over his head.

00:17:34.200 Like,

00:17:34.640 he knows that at any moment

00:17:35.960 he could be wiped out

00:17:37.800 if the emperor decides

00:17:38.820 that that's

00:17:39.340 what needs to be done.

00:17:42.300 He's got,

00:17:43.160 you know,

00:17:43.560 he lives at the mercy

00:17:44.780 of the emperor.

00:17:46.400 And he's raised

00:17:47.340 as a Christian,

00:17:48.700 but

00:17:49.020 he's also given

00:17:51.580 a traditional

00:17:52.900 elite education

00:17:53.900 that any,

00:17:54.680 you know,

00:17:55.580 normal

00:17:56.160 Greco-Roman

00:17:57.760 leadership class

00:17:59.920 type

00:18:00.760 would have gotten,

00:18:01.840 which means

00:18:02.480 he's educated

00:18:03.940 in the pagan classics.

00:18:05.100 Like,

00:18:05.400 all the Christians

00:18:06.400 of this time,

00:18:07.080 if they were upper class,

00:18:08.120 they would have been

00:18:08.660 educated

00:18:09.160 in this,

00:18:10.580 basically,

00:18:11.940 this rhetorical system

00:18:13.100 where you study

00:18:14.980 Homer and Thucydides

00:18:16.620 and the tragedians

00:18:17.860 and you do this

00:18:19.880 with the spirit

00:18:20.840 of emulating

00:18:22.320 the greatness

00:18:22.880 of the great models,

00:18:24.840 both in conduct,

00:18:27.000 but also in language.

00:18:29.780 And the whole point

00:18:31.460 is to make you

00:18:32.120 a public man,

00:18:33.240 right?

00:18:33.460 To make you,

00:18:34.540 they call it

00:18:35.040 political philosophy,

00:18:35.980 actually.

00:18:36.220 So it's a moral education,

00:18:37.480 it's a rhetorical education

00:18:38.880 and how to speak.

00:18:40.380 And it's also embedded,

00:18:42.640 of course,

00:18:43.300 with the pagan theology,

00:18:45.180 like the gods of Homer.

00:18:47.600 And,

00:18:48.200 you know,

00:18:48.720 you just learn about

00:18:49.580 how state cult works

00:18:50.660 and it's just part

00:18:51.560 of your education.

00:18:53.600 And Christians

00:18:53.980 don't necessarily

00:18:54.660 see this as a problem.

00:18:56.220 They're,

00:18:56.820 for centuries,

00:18:58.180 even the pagans

00:18:58.880 have been allegorizing

00:19:00.060 the myths of the gods

00:19:02.140 as kind of symbols

00:19:03.040 for natural forces

00:19:05.000 or spiritual forces,

00:19:06.740 deep signs

00:19:07.300 of deeper spiritual truth.

00:19:08.880 But I think you can,

00:19:10.640 a lot of people

00:19:11.340 chalk this up

00:19:12.240 to his sense of resentment

00:19:14.780 at his cousin Constantius,

00:19:16.220 the emperor,

00:19:16.980 that Julian decides

00:19:19.000 that the Christians

00:19:20.460 are the problem.

00:19:22.060 They're everything

00:19:22.480 what's wrong

00:19:23.540 with the Roman Empire

00:19:24.380 these days.

00:19:25.280 And he gets very interested.

00:19:26.880 He's very bookish.

00:19:27.720 He's a great writer.

00:19:28.800 He's actually the emperor

00:19:29.720 that we have

00:19:31.140 the most writings from

00:19:32.480 of all,

00:19:33.020 like more than any

00:19:33.700 of the other

00:19:34.140 prior Roman emperors.

00:19:35.120 We have all these writings

00:19:35.920 of Julian in Greek.

00:19:37.400 So he's a great,

00:19:38.920 great writer,

00:19:39.500 great student.

00:19:40.120 And he,

00:19:40.860 he studies paganism

00:19:42.320 very intensely.

00:19:42.960 He has some

00:19:43.880 influential teachers.

00:19:45.940 Interestingly,

00:19:46.740 some influential

00:19:48.220 Christian teachers too,

00:19:49.300 like Eusebius of Nicomedia,

00:19:51.200 who goes on to be

00:19:51.880 bishop of

00:19:52.920 Constantinople.

00:19:54.080 This is not

00:19:54.480 the church historian.

00:19:56.300 But so,

00:19:56.920 you know,

00:19:57.180 Julian is,

00:19:57.820 is being raised

00:19:58.800 as a Christian,

00:19:59.280 but he sort of

00:19:59.920 has this secret

00:20:00.880 probably conversion,

00:20:03.060 you know,

00:20:03.220 maybe around the time

00:20:04.200 that your typical

00:20:05.480 young man

00:20:06.760 finds a copy

00:20:07.580 of Nietzsche's

00:20:08.340 Genealogy of Morals

00:20:09.600 and decides that,

00:20:10.620 ah,

00:20:10.760 this is all

00:20:11.320 slave revolt

00:20:12.140 and morality.

00:20:13.460 And he rejects

00:20:14.420 the religion

00:20:14.800 of his fathers

00:20:15.500 and he,

00:20:16.140 you know,

00:20:16.340 he becomes galvanized,

00:20:17.260 but he keeps it

00:20:17.760 very secret

00:20:18.340 for the time being

00:20:19.600 because it's

00:20:19.900 very dangerous,

00:20:21.140 right?

00:20:21.500 His cousin Constantius

00:20:22.580 is a,

00:20:23.080 if anything,

00:20:24.520 an even more devout

00:20:25.320 Christian than Constantine.

00:20:27.060 So that's kind of

00:20:27.960 the environment

00:20:28.640 that he grew up in.

00:20:30.520 The old 20-year-old

00:20:31.380 goes to college,

00:20:32.260 comes back as a,

00:20:33.360 yeah,

00:20:33.760 as a one year

00:20:35.320 of philosophy

00:20:35.940 and very dangerous.

00:20:37.220 But one thing

00:20:38.940 I want to point out there

00:20:39.960 that I think

00:20:40.440 is really important

00:20:41.320 that we don't think

00:20:42.180 a lot about

00:20:43.240 but has a lot

00:20:44.300 of parallels today,

00:20:45.440 obviously,

00:20:46.260 as you pointed out,

00:20:47.520 the Roman religion

00:20:48.620 had gone from something

00:20:50.360 that was deeply

00:20:51.320 embedded in every aspect

00:20:53.900 of society

00:20:54.580 and deeply believed

00:20:55.900 in a lot of ways.

00:20:57.520 It was still embedded.

00:20:58.560 It's the rhythm

00:20:59.780 of life,

00:21:01.380 the education,

00:21:02.700 these things,

00:21:03.120 as you point out,

00:21:03.680 are still built around it.

00:21:05.980 But there had been

00:21:06.980 a rationalization

00:21:08.860 undermining

00:21:10.660 its spiritual truth,

00:21:13.560 right?

00:21:13.840 That they'd start

00:21:15.060 talking things,

00:21:15.740 oh,

00:21:15.880 it's all allegorical,

00:21:17.260 maybe the gods

00:21:17.980 aren't exactly deified

00:21:19.880 but representations

00:21:20.540 of nature

00:21:21.240 in these things.

00:21:22.200 There had been

00:21:22.800 an effort

00:21:24.180 over time

00:21:25.360 to hollow out

00:21:26.800 the true belief

00:21:28.020 in kind of

00:21:28.860 the metaphysical

00:21:29.860 reality of it

00:21:30.800 and an attempt

00:21:31.460 to turn everything

00:21:32.860 and kind of ossify it

00:21:34.220 and make it something

00:21:35.060 that you can hold on to,

00:21:36.360 you can grasp,

00:21:37.260 you can rationalize.

00:21:38.680 And this was the state

00:21:39.860 of the faith

00:21:40.580 that Julian was returning

00:21:42.120 to at this point.

00:21:44.400 And again,

00:21:45.720 it's hard not to notice

00:21:47.180 that this is something

00:21:48.040 that has very much

00:21:48.800 happened to Christianity.

00:21:51.060 Christianity is something

00:21:52.360 that,

00:21:52.840 you know,

00:21:53.440 for a very long time,

00:21:55.000 even though it had,

00:21:56.120 it was deeply embedded

00:21:57.680 in,

00:21:58.100 let's say,

00:21:58.520 the American

00:21:59.120 and larger Western

00:22:00.260 understanding of itself.

00:22:02.340 It was the

00:22:03.040 court of the canon.

00:22:04.140 People still needed

00:22:04.860 to study,

00:22:05.500 you know,

00:22:05.980 Shakespeare and Milton

00:22:07.060 and all these things

00:22:08.120 that were constantly

00:22:09.040 referencing the Bible.

00:22:10.180 It's still something

00:22:10.920 that was worked

00:22:12.160 into every aspect

00:22:13.220 of,

00:22:14.060 you know,

00:22:14.460 language,

00:22:14.840 even when I was a kid.

00:22:15.840 You know,

00:22:16.100 I didn't recognize

00:22:17.600 how many,

00:22:18.080 like,

00:22:18.480 Looney Tunes cartoons

00:22:19.680 were making references,

00:22:21.020 you know,

00:22:21.540 to things that were

00:22:22.640 baked into the Western canon

00:22:24.200 or to the Bible itself.

00:22:26.320 And yet,

00:22:27.740 you know,

00:22:28.020 everything about it

00:22:28.780 has been rationalized out.

00:22:30.460 Well,

00:22:30.820 you know,

00:22:31.180 maybe there's this thing

00:22:32.340 about the Bible

00:22:32.960 we don't have to believe,

00:22:34.240 you know,

00:22:34.860 the creations and things

00:22:36.400 and all,

00:22:36.760 we can find ways

00:22:37.540 to rationalize this.

00:22:38.860 And so it's a very

00:22:39.480 similar scenario

00:22:40.780 where once you get in there

00:22:42.700 and you strip out

00:22:43.920 those mystical,

00:22:45.800 you know,

00:22:46.260 spiritual aspects

00:22:47.820 and you start to try

00:22:48.820 to rationalize it,

00:22:50.420 you can still have

00:22:51.060 all the great works.

00:22:52.520 You can still have

00:22:53.140 all kind of these

00:22:53.940 things that define a society

00:22:55.520 and give it a lot

00:22:56.440 of its cultural understanding,

00:22:58.280 but you are making it

00:22:59.820 very empty and hollow

00:23:01.460 and open

00:23:02.220 for something else

00:23:03.140 to kind of rush in

00:23:03.740 and fill that void.

00:23:06.040 Yeah,

00:23:06.700 and I think,

00:23:07.660 if anything,

00:23:08.240 it's easier to do that

00:23:09.200 with paganism

00:23:09.920 because they don't really,

00:23:11.900 the pagan,

00:23:12.860 this kind of structure

00:23:14.220 of traditional

00:23:15.180 polytheistic religions

00:23:16.320 is the emphasis

00:23:18.140 is not on belief.

00:23:20.000 It's not on what you think.

00:23:21.500 It's really on,

00:23:22.580 do you perform

00:23:23.100 the ritual actions correctly?

00:23:26.320 And so Julian

00:23:28.260 ascribes to this

00:23:30.080 philosophical school

00:23:33.240 that is the dominant paradigm

00:23:34.680 at least since Plotinus

00:23:37.580 in the mid-3rd century AD

00:23:39.760 that Neoplatonism

00:23:41.740 is what it's called.

00:23:43.540 And a guy like Plotinus

00:23:45.300 and Julian,

00:23:46.460 by extension,

00:23:47.600 they're basically,

00:23:49.660 I wouldn't say monotheists,

00:23:51.440 but they're henotheists

00:23:52.380 at least.

00:23:52.840 They believe in the sense

00:23:53.920 of one supreme god.

00:23:56.460 Plotinus calls him the one.

00:23:58.840 Maybe Zeus is sometimes

00:24:00.300 an allegory

00:24:01.100 of this supreme god.

00:24:02.240 They don't deny the existence

00:24:03.720 of the other gods,

00:24:04.940 but they would say

00:24:05.720 that these are all

00:24:06.680 kind of lesser beings.

00:24:08.400 Maybe metaphors,

00:24:09.520 maybe lesser beings.

00:24:11.180 If they're lesser beings,

00:24:12.300 they are themselves

00:24:13.900 paradigms of the way

00:24:14.980 that we should approach

00:24:16.020 the divine.

00:24:16.760 Namely,

00:24:17.200 they are themselves

00:24:18.200 worshiping the one god.

00:24:21.000 And so this is,

00:24:22.820 there's a lot of room

00:24:23.820 for syncretism there

00:24:25.400 and flexibility.

00:24:27.400 Although,

00:24:28.160 importantly,

00:24:29.160 at least up to Constantine,

00:24:31.380 the state

00:24:32.060 cults are still functioning.

00:24:33.780 So, like,

00:24:34.580 you can keep going

00:24:35.220 through the motions

00:24:35.840 even though the meaning

00:24:36.660 of them might have

00:24:37.460 changed a lot,

00:24:38.200 at least for the upper classes

00:24:40.000 who can take a more

00:24:42.120 rational approach to this.

00:24:45.080 Yeah,

00:24:45.540 I think that's really important.

00:24:46.680 And even when it comes

00:24:47.580 to paganism,

00:24:50.120 we're not really talking

00:24:51.400 in, you know,

00:24:52.280 the kind of the same pantheon

00:24:53.800 that maybe would have been

00:24:54.920 understood a few hundred years earlier.

00:24:58.080 It's, you know,

00:24:58.780 pagan in that it's not Christian.

00:25:00.460 But again,

00:25:00.900 we can feel that gradient,

00:25:02.440 you know,

00:25:02.600 that pull towards monotheism

00:25:05.040 even inside the pagan world,

00:25:07.120 the look to unify.

00:25:09.240 Perhaps that's what you need.

00:25:10.840 You need a political theology

00:25:12.140 that is going to allow

00:25:13.780 for unification

00:25:15.240 across cultures,

00:25:16.800 be it

00:25:17.180 pagan or Christian.

00:25:19.000 You can't simply

00:25:19.840 go back to this

00:25:20.980 very divided,

00:25:22.440 completely divided faith

00:25:23.700 even if you can allow

00:25:24.580 for something that will

00:25:25.440 give you more,

00:25:26.560 you know,

00:25:26.820 acknowledgement of previous gods

00:25:28.560 or other,

00:25:29.060 you know,

00:25:29.240 other things

00:25:29.680 that Christianity

00:25:30.320 would not.

00:25:31.560 I want to dive deeper

00:25:32.580 a little bit

00:25:33.280 into Neoplatonism

00:25:35.400 and then into

00:25:36.560 Julian's attempts

00:25:38.000 to kind of push back

00:25:39.860 against the Christian church.

00:25:41.000 But before we get to that,

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00:26:47.780 All right, guys.

00:26:48.880 So before we dive

00:26:50.440 into Julian's attempts

00:26:52.080 to kind of change the church,

00:26:55.360 could you give

00:26:56.420 just a little background

00:26:57.320 on Neoplatonism?

00:27:00.100 Again, I know entire books

00:27:01.440 could go here,

00:27:02.240 but just who was Plotinus?

00:27:04.760 Why has this become

00:27:05.840 the dominant version

00:27:06.780 of pagan understanding

00:27:08.760 at the time,

00:27:09.300 especially among somebody

00:27:10.520 who's a philosophical supremacist,

00:27:12.920 we could say, I think.

00:27:14.560 Yeah, so Plotinus

00:27:16.120 is an Egyptian.

00:27:18.060 He, a Greek from Egypt.

00:27:21.760 He makes his way

00:27:22.980 to Rome eventually

00:27:23.980 and becomes very influential

00:27:25.440 at the court

00:27:26.440 with Galienus in the 350s.

00:27:31.180 They almost found a city,

00:27:33.180 Platonic,

00:27:34.320 inspired by Plato's

00:27:35.700 either the Republic

00:27:36.560 or the laws.

00:27:37.700 Plotinus called it Platonopolis,

00:27:39.800 but then there were court intrigues

00:27:41.680 that quashed the plan.

00:27:44.500 Porphyry,

00:27:45.160 whose Plotinus is

00:27:46.120 student tells us

00:27:46.880 in his biography of Plotinus,

00:27:48.740 which is probably

00:27:49.200 the one thing

00:27:49.720 that you should read

00:27:50.300 if you want to get a start

00:27:51.860 on Neoplatonism.

00:27:52.960 Like, who is this Plotinus guy?

00:27:54.460 There's a wonderful biography

00:27:55.520 by Porphyry.

00:27:57.340 But so Plotinus teaches

00:27:59.220 a very contemplative version

00:28:02.960 of philosophy.

00:28:03.960 He believes that he is

00:28:06.480 interpreting,

00:28:07.720 finding the true interpretation

00:28:09.200 of Plato and Aristotle.

00:28:10.860 He tends to harmonize them.

00:28:13.120 And the,

00:28:14.600 in the pagan

00:28:16.320 Neoplatonic world view,

00:28:18.720 the goal of philosophy

00:28:21.420 and also the goal

00:28:22.580 of religion

00:28:23.100 for kind of

00:28:24.020 the lower

00:28:24.800 hypostases,

00:28:27.040 the lower kind of

00:28:27.660 orders of being

00:28:28.600 for kind of

00:28:29.020 your everyday man

00:28:29.940 is to point

00:28:31.720 you to

00:28:33.180 assimilation

00:28:33.920 to God.

00:28:35.020 Henosis

00:28:35.420 prostontaeon,

00:28:37.360 which is,

00:28:37.920 I think that,

00:28:38.280 no,

00:28:38.400 homoiosis prostontaeon

00:28:39.520 is the Platonic formula

00:28:40.540 from the Theaetetus.

00:28:41.520 So basically,

00:28:42.260 you're trying to become

00:28:43.720 more like God.

00:28:45.320 And actually,

00:28:46.080 this is very germane.

00:28:47.760 Like,

00:28:47.880 a lot of Christian teachers,

00:28:50.160 guys like Origen,

00:28:51.500 later Gregory of Nyssa,

00:28:52.960 Gregory of Nazianzus,

00:28:54.360 they take up this

00:28:55.220 as essentially

00:28:56.180 what Christians

00:28:57.040 are trying to do too.

00:28:57.940 So there's a lot of

00:28:58.700 overlap.

00:29:00.100 A lot of Christians

00:29:00.580 are reading Plotinus

00:29:01.720 and reading Plato

00:29:02.560 and finding good stuff there.

00:29:05.800 But it also,

00:29:07.180 I think one of the reasons

00:29:07.820 that it appeals

00:29:08.560 to the upper classes,

00:29:11.440 so unlike Stoicism,

00:29:13.140 which kind of

00:29:14.000 falls out of fashion

00:29:14.980 after Marcus Aurelius,

00:29:17.040 Neoplatonism

00:29:17.740 has this really rich

00:29:19.040 metaphysics

00:29:19.680 that explains

00:29:20.480 why it's important

00:29:22.520 to kind of

00:29:24.880 have this whole

00:29:25.640 richness of religious cults.

00:29:27.300 It explains,

00:29:29.460 it gives you

00:29:30.020 a paradigm of meaning

00:29:31.360 that can go

00:29:32.660 from the higher

00:29:33.540 metaphysical truths

00:29:34.600 and the physics

00:29:35.420 and the stars

00:29:36.140 all the way down to,

00:29:37.880 you know,

00:29:38.760 why do we

00:29:39.680 pour five glasses

00:29:41.400 of wine for the gods

00:29:42.460 and not three?

00:29:43.440 So there's like

00:29:44.800 a very open

00:29:46.900 attitude toward allegory.

00:29:49.160 Porphyry writes

00:29:49.740 this great treatise

00:29:50.780 on the cave

00:29:52.080 of the nymphs,

00:29:52.760 this, you know,

00:29:53.500 11 lines of the Odyssey

00:29:54.740 that he spends

00:29:55.540 20 pages

00:29:56.300 exegeting

00:29:57.000 the profound

00:29:58.140 cosmic mysteries

00:29:59.280 from.

00:30:00.780 And I think

00:30:01.820 that also

00:30:02.720 is an interesting

00:30:04.580 comparison

00:30:05.020 with the way

00:30:05.460 that Christians

00:30:05.860 read the Bible.

00:30:06.620 They're kind of

00:30:07.020 taking a lot

00:30:08.000 of the Neoplatonic

00:30:09.460 and also,

00:30:10.520 to some extent,

00:30:10.980 the rhetorical school

00:30:11.960 ways of reading

00:30:13.640 Homer

00:30:14.240 and allegorizing

00:30:15.300 the gods

00:30:15.940 and finding

00:30:16.760 deeper meanings

00:30:17.580 in these passages

00:30:19.020 and connecting

00:30:19.840 the dots.

00:30:20.340 They're doing

00:30:20.720 that with the Bible.

00:30:22.380 So it's a fascinating

00:30:23.580 world.

00:30:24.080 It's a very,

00:30:24.800 very old world

00:30:25.820 with all of these

00:30:26.700 ancient cults.

00:30:28.060 Who knows when

00:30:28.760 they were developed?

00:30:29.620 But you have to believe

00:30:31.460 if you're a traditionalist

00:30:33.500 that there's some kind

00:30:34.460 of providence to it.

00:30:35.720 And I think Plotinus

00:30:36.500 really helps you do that.

00:30:38.460 And he also has

00:30:39.060 a very compelling

00:30:40.820 and rationally

00:30:42.020 consistent metaphysics

00:30:43.100 that ended up

00:30:43.920 being adopted

00:30:44.480 in large sections

00:30:46.440 of it by

00:30:46.980 Christian theologians

00:30:47.940 later.

00:30:49.040 Yeah, I was going

00:30:49.480 to say,

00:30:49.820 this is obviously

00:30:50.480 a figure that

00:30:52.040 plays into a lot

00:30:53.140 of early Christian

00:30:53.920 formation as well.

00:30:54.940 So interesting

00:30:55.700 that even though

00:30:56.280 this is a battle

00:30:57.180 of paganism

00:30:58.820 versus Christianity

00:30:59.460 in some cases,

00:31:00.500 eventually we're going

00:31:01.280 to get quite a bit

00:31:02.680 of synthesis

00:31:03.160 and obviously

00:31:03.860 we'll get

00:31:04.320 I don't remember

00:31:09.960 people's names

00:31:10.700 in a second

00:31:11.160 but we'll see

00:31:12.180 Aristotle also

00:31:12.960 be brought in

00:31:13.560 to the church

00:31:14.860 as well,

00:31:15.580 synthesized

00:31:16.160 through Aquinas

00:31:17.160 as well.

00:31:18.340 But all right,

00:31:19.100 let's get to

00:31:20.240 Julian's actual

00:31:21.460 attempts to change

00:31:23.620 what's going on here.

00:31:25.200 So he's in a world

00:31:26.140 where Christianity

00:31:27.920 is not necessarily

00:31:29.580 the official religion

00:31:30.920 but is the de facto

00:31:32.240 religion of the empire

00:31:34.220 in most ways.

00:31:35.420 It's been building

00:31:36.360 a lot of momentum

00:31:37.420 but he finds himself

00:31:39.380 in a position

00:31:39.900 where he's trying

00:31:40.420 to push back

00:31:40.980 against that.

00:31:42.320 What changes

00:31:43.100 is he trying

00:31:44.020 to make

00:31:44.520 as he tries

00:31:45.080 to stop

00:31:45.660 his culture

00:31:47.420 from shifting

00:31:47.920 further down

00:31:48.740 this road

00:31:49.360 towards Christianity?

00:31:52.360 So when Julian

00:31:53.660 becomes the sole ruler

00:31:55.620 in 361

00:31:56.780 and we don't have

00:31:58.000 to go into the details

00:31:59.000 there was a kind

00:31:59.720 of threat

00:32:00.260 of a civil war

00:32:01.200 with his brother

00:32:02.720 Constantius

00:32:03.360 but Constantius

00:32:04.080 conveniently dies

00:32:05.420 as they're about

00:32:06.740 to have

00:32:07.060 this great

00:32:07.660 battle royale.

00:32:09.300 So one of the

00:32:10.320 first things

00:32:10.780 he does

00:32:11.260 is so Constantius

00:32:13.360 had Constantine

00:32:14.460 had not really

00:32:15.060 been too

00:32:15.860 tough on the pagans.

00:32:17.820 He did a couple

00:32:18.600 of things

00:32:19.120 that disfavored

00:32:20.420 paganism

00:32:20.940 like he took

00:32:21.600 a lot of the

00:32:22.220 local temple

00:32:23.800 funds

00:32:24.380 that were

00:32:25.740 you know

00:32:26.020 for the upkeep

00:32:26.560 of temples

00:32:27.120 keeping the columns

00:32:28.360 from falling down

00:32:29.300 paying for all

00:32:30.040 the animals

00:32:30.540 to be sacrificed

00:32:31.200 for the priests

00:32:32.120 to have

00:32:32.580 you know

00:32:33.200 nice couches

00:32:33.940 and fresh clothes

00:32:35.360 he cut off

00:32:36.600 that funding

00:32:37.140 and he

00:32:37.920 he redirected

00:32:38.720 it to a lot

00:32:39.160 of churches

00:32:39.620 on a kind

00:32:40.260 of case-by-case

00:32:41.260 local basis

00:32:42.000 depending on

00:32:42.500 what he felt

00:32:43.000 that he could

00:32:43.320 do in any

00:32:43.820 particular city

00:32:44.580 but he didn't

00:32:46.440 you know

00:32:46.700 issue edicts

00:32:47.520 banning sacrifice

00:32:48.600 or closing

00:32:49.340 the temples down

00:32:50.180 Constantius

00:32:51.120 started to do

00:32:51.840 that in the

00:32:52.540 350s

00:32:53.300 he started

00:32:54.440 sort of softly

00:32:55.700 expressing his

00:32:56.520 preference that

00:32:57.120 people would

00:32:57.520 stop sacrificing

00:32:58.420 animals

00:32:58.980 and he did

00:32:59.700 shut down

00:33:00.920 a lot

00:33:01.160 of temples

00:33:01.640 and he

00:33:02.840 banned

00:33:03.380 the construction

00:33:04.480 of new

00:33:04.820 temples

00:33:05.140 so his

00:33:06.160 one of his

00:33:06.520 first acts

00:33:07.160 that Julian

00:33:07.860 does

00:33:08.280 is to

00:33:09.040 lift the

00:33:10.300 ban

00:33:10.580 on building

00:33:11.180 new temples

00:33:11.700 open up

00:33:12.200 the temples

00:33:12.640 and he

00:33:14.000 does quickly

00:33:14.500 redirect

00:33:14.880 a lot

00:33:15.220 of the

00:33:15.440 funds

00:33:15.880 from

00:33:17.160 from churches

00:33:17.960 to back

00:33:19.360 to local

00:33:20.000 councils

00:33:21.600 that he

00:33:22.100 hopes will

00:33:22.660 redirect

00:33:23.340 at least

00:33:23.660 some of

00:33:24.020 it back

00:33:24.320 to temples

00:33:24.800 another

00:33:26.500 thing that

00:33:26.880 he does

00:33:27.220 that kind

00:33:27.880 of on

00:33:28.080 that vein

00:33:28.580 is he

00:33:30.220 issues

00:33:30.580 this edict

00:33:31.220 of toleration

00:33:32.560 for all

00:33:34.220 religions

00:33:34.740 which seems

00:33:35.720 like oh

00:33:36.320 that's

00:33:36.780 so he's

00:33:37.420 a he's

00:33:37.700 a tolerant

00:33:38.100 guy

00:33:38.500 actually

00:33:39.600 what his

00:33:40.880 main interest

00:33:41.680 in that

00:33:41.940 was is

00:33:42.800 there's all

00:33:43.240 these Christian

00:33:43.720 factions that

00:33:44.380 have risen

00:33:44.680 up

00:33:45.000 they've been

00:33:46.100 you know

00:33:46.520 have had

00:33:47.020 factions

00:33:47.580 the whole

00:33:48.260 of Christian

00:33:48.800 history

00:33:49.180 you know

00:33:49.500 heretics

00:33:50.060 believing the

00:33:50.700 wrong thing

00:33:51.260 but in the

00:33:52.380 in the

00:33:53.220 fourth century

00:33:53.860 the main

00:33:54.440 debate is

00:33:55.280 the Arians

00:33:55.920 versus the

00:33:56.400 Nicenes

00:33:56.980 it has to

00:33:57.400 do with

00:33:57.700 the

00:33:58.440 Trinitarian

00:33:59.520 theology

00:34:00.060 we don't

00:34:00.340 need to

00:34:00.540 get into

00:34:00.820 it

00:34:01.040 but

00:34:01.560 essentially

00:34:02.120 Constantine

00:34:03.300 favored the

00:34:03.740 Nicenes

00:34:04.220 and he

00:34:04.500 kind of

00:34:04.880 like

00:34:05.100 switched over

00:34:06.320 to the

00:34:06.500 Arians

00:34:06.860 toward the

00:34:07.180 end of

00:34:07.340 his life

00:34:07.700 but Constantius

00:34:08.380 was a

00:34:08.920 devout

00:34:09.240 Arian

00:34:09.660 he believed

00:34:11.060 that you

00:34:11.400 know

00:34:11.520 Christ

00:34:11.840 wasn't

00:34:12.600 Christ

00:34:13.020 was like

00:34:13.360 sort of

00:34:14.220 subordinate

00:34:14.600 member of

00:34:14.960 the Trinity

00:34:15.320 and all

00:34:16.820 these bishops

00:34:17.300 got exiled

00:34:18.080 under

00:34:18.740 Constantius

00:34:19.540 thrown out

00:34:20.200 of their

00:34:20.420 seas

00:34:20.760 all these

00:34:21.340 Nicene

00:34:22.300 Christians

00:34:22.820 that you

00:34:23.540 know

00:34:23.620 we're

00:34:23.980 Nicene

00:34:24.340 Christians

00:34:24.660 today

00:34:25.020 and Christendom

00:34:25.940 for the

00:34:26.540 most part

00:34:26.960 but all

00:34:28.120 these guys

00:34:28.760 at that

00:34:29.440 time were

00:34:30.040 disfavored

00:34:31.080 so Julian

00:34:31.680 basically does

00:34:32.440 he takes a

00:34:33.040 page from

00:34:33.820 the playbook

00:34:34.920 of the

00:34:36.060 classical

00:34:36.420 cities of

00:34:37.100 Greece

00:34:37.480 Athens

00:34:38.560 and Sparta

00:34:38.980 would do

00:34:39.260 this

00:34:39.420 whenever

00:34:39.660 they

00:34:39.960 got

00:34:40.380 control

00:34:40.900 of

00:34:41.580 a

00:34:41.920 city

00:34:42.200 that

00:34:42.580 they

00:34:42.740 wanted

00:34:43.080 to

00:34:43.520 kind

00:34:43.840 of

00:34:44.000 tamp

00:34:44.600 down

00:34:45.040 they

00:34:45.660 would

00:34:45.940 declare

00:34:46.680 an

00:34:46.960 amnesty

00:34:47.360 and a

00:34:47.620 restoration

00:34:47.920 of all

00:34:48.320 the

00:34:48.460 exiles

00:34:48.920 so

00:34:49.380 you know

00:34:49.880 the

00:34:49.980 Athenians

00:34:50.400 would bring

00:34:50.740 in

00:34:50.900 back

00:34:51.100 all the

00:34:51.600 Democrats

00:34:51.980 the

00:34:52.400 Spartans

00:34:52.840 would bring

00:34:53.160 back

00:34:53.360 all the

00:34:53.620 oligarchs

00:34:54.260 and this

00:34:54.660 would

00:34:54.760 just

00:34:54.900 destabilize

00:34:55.720 the

00:34:55.880 city

00:34:56.100 you know

00:34:56.340 to have

00:34:56.780 these

00:34:57.180 warring

00:34:57.540 factions

00:34:57.980 kind

00:34:58.340 of

00:34:58.520 fighting

00:34:59.060 amongst

00:34:59.360 themselves

00:34:59.700 preventing

00:35:00.060 them

00:35:00.260 from

00:35:00.400 rising

00:35:00.640 up

00:35:00.800 so

00:35:00.880 that's

00:35:01.020 exactly

00:35:01.460 what

00:35:01.720 Julian

00:35:02.240 wants

00:35:02.540 to do

00:35:02.840 for the

00:35:03.160 Christians

00:35:03.520 like he

00:35:04.000 lets

00:35:04.900 Athanasius

00:35:05.560 back into

00:35:05.980 Alexandria

00:35:06.560 which is

00:35:07.200 like

00:35:07.460 you know

00:35:08.280 letting

00:35:08.600 Don Corleone

00:35:09.880 back into

00:35:10.800 into the

00:35:11.800 mob

00:35:12.180 world

00:35:13.240 so

00:35:14.040 that's

00:35:15.320 so he's

00:35:16.200 but he's

00:35:16.860 basically

00:35:17.260 he starts

00:35:17.860 off very

00:35:18.380 gentle

00:35:18.720 he doesn't

00:35:19.600 want to

00:35:20.100 he doesn't

00:35:22.200 want to give

00:35:22.460 the Christians

00:35:22.880 any new

00:35:23.280 martyrs

00:35:23.880 and he

00:35:24.780 actually issues

00:35:25.360 an edict

00:35:25.760 to that

00:35:26.040 effect

00:35:26.420 he calls

00:35:27.620 them the

00:35:28.100 Galileans

00:35:29.240 pejoratively

00:35:30.200 that they're

00:35:30.700 not Christian

00:35:31.200 they're the

00:35:31.540 servants of

00:35:32.320 this guy

00:35:32.620 from Galilee

00:35:33.260 he says

00:35:34.300 the Galileans

00:35:34.960 are not to

00:35:35.300 be murdered

00:35:35.780 they're not

00:35:36.220 to be

00:35:36.540 beaten up

00:35:37.240 or unjustly

00:35:38.340 treated

00:35:38.640 but

00:35:39.200 the

00:35:40.800 the

00:35:40.820 the

00:35:40.840 the

00:35:41.080 the

00:35:41.120 the

00:35:41.300 the

00:35:41.320 the

00:35:41.920 the

00:35:42.100 the

00:35:42.240 the

00:35:43.160 the

00:35:44.420 the

00:35:44.920 pagans

00:35:45.400 they are

00:35:45.800 to be

00:35:46.040 preferred

00:35:46.400 to the

00:35:46.780 Galileans

00:35:47.460 so he

00:35:47.900 kind of

00:35:48.240 takes this

00:35:48.680 ancient

00:35:49.120 tone

00:35:50.200 of

00:35:50.480 the

00:35:51.460 pagan

00:35:52.320 apologists

00:35:53.140 like

00:35:53.600 Porphyry

00:35:53.980 actually wrote

00:35:54.420 a treatise

00:35:54.820 against the

00:35:55.220 pagan

00:35:55.480 against the

00:35:56.220 Christians

00:35:56.460 they would

00:35:57.820 say that

00:35:58.360 the Christians

00:35:58.840 are atheists

00:35:59.660 because they're

00:36:00.420 against

00:36:00.780 the gods

00:36:01.580 right

00:36:01.960 so

00:36:02.220 Julian

00:36:03.060 says

00:36:03.620 the

00:36:04.000 the

00:36:04.300 atheist

00:36:04.640 should be

00:36:05.120 dispreferred

00:36:05.800 and the

00:36:06.220 pious

00:36:06.560 should be

00:36:06.900 preferred

00:36:07.300 so it

00:36:08.000 starts off

00:36:08.400 really

00:36:08.560 gentle

00:36:08.980 but it

00:36:09.680 ramps up

00:36:10.080 pretty

00:36:10.240 quickly

00:36:10.600 and

00:36:11.600 maybe we'll

00:36:12.340 get to

00:36:12.520 that in a

00:36:12.780 second

00:36:12.920 if you

00:36:13.220 want to

00:36:13.560 pause

00:36:13.800 for

00:36:14.000 thoughts

00:36:14.720 there

00:36:14.960 oh no

00:36:15.660 yeah

00:36:16.060 it's

00:36:16.360 interesting

00:36:16.820 like you

00:36:17.280 said

00:36:17.460 the

00:36:17.800 the

00:36:18.720 attempt

00:36:19.220 to open

00:36:19.600 things up

00:36:20.160 as a

00:36:20.440 way

00:36:20.620 to

00:36:20.820 kind

00:36:21.020 of

00:36:21.160 introduce

00:36:21.540 conflict

00:36:22.220 and

00:36:22.680 kill

00:36:23.380 that

00:36:23.560 momentum

00:36:24.020 by

00:36:24.580 keeping

00:36:25.280 this

00:36:26.140 consolidation

00:36:26.840 of

00:36:27.640 kind

00:36:28.040 of

00:36:28.160 church

00:36:28.420 doctrine

00:36:28.880 and

00:36:29.100 things

00:36:29.520 opening

00:36:30.220 that

00:36:30.520 back

00:36:30.740 up

00:36:31.360 and

00:36:31.460 disrupting

00:36:31.920 everything

00:36:32.240 as

00:36:32.520 you

00:36:32.680 know

00:36:33.040 the

00:36:33.740 multiculturalism

00:36:35.180 as a tool

00:36:35.900 of stopping

00:36:36.600 the momentum

00:36:37.900 that is being

00:36:38.520 built up

00:36:39.000 inside the

00:36:39.500 culture

00:36:39.800 is a very

00:36:40.200 interesting

00:36:40.580 aspect

00:36:41.120 and

00:36:42.080 it makes

00:36:42.960 sense

00:36:43.420 because

00:36:43.860 even though

00:36:44.420 he is

00:36:45.340 the emperor

00:36:46.480 he is still

00:36:47.520 in some ways

00:36:48.240 subject to

00:36:49.040 cultural forces

00:36:50.060 right

00:36:50.380 I think

00:36:51.040 there's

00:36:52.080 for some

00:36:53.180 people

00:36:53.600 even

00:36:54.300 you know

00:36:54.780 I'm a

00:36:55.700 fan of

00:36:56.360 elite theory

00:36:56.860 you know

00:36:57.280 I'm a

00:36:57.740 follower of

00:36:58.520 elite theory

00:36:59.020 that elites

00:36:59.800 end up

00:37:00.160 dictating

00:37:00.580 large amounts

00:37:01.240 of our

00:37:01.520 culture

00:37:01.880 and these

00:37:02.200 things

00:37:02.460 but it

00:37:03.140 is still

00:37:03.700 true

00:37:04.220 that power

00:37:04.980 is not

00:37:05.960 it is not

00:37:07.320 you know

00:37:07.860 completely

00:37:08.680 omnipotent

00:37:09.260 it completely

00:37:09.800 does whatever

00:37:10.360 it wants

00:37:10.860 he still

00:37:11.560 has to be

00:37:11.940 subject to

00:37:12.580 the cultural

00:37:13.160 concerns

00:37:13.920 the institutional

00:37:14.520 concerns

00:37:15.140 even though

00:37:15.700 he's been

00:37:15.960 named emperor

00:37:16.440 he can't

00:37:16.900 immediately

00:37:17.180 just pivot

00:37:17.780 the entire

00:37:18.360 ship

00:37:19.060 on a dime

00:37:19.780 he can

00:37:20.180 open things

00:37:20.720 up

00:37:20.940 he can

00:37:21.200 allow

00:37:21.440 things

00:37:21.740 he can

00:37:22.180 give

00:37:22.340 preferential

00:37:22.740 treatment

00:37:23.240 hoping to

00:37:24.060 guide

00:37:24.460 these

00:37:25.040 you know

00:37:25.400 these

00:37:25.860 different

00:37:26.160 pathways

00:37:26.660 towards

00:37:27.580 a outcome

00:37:28.280 that he

00:37:28.640 prefers

00:37:29.000 but he

00:37:30.240 also has

00:37:30.980 to be

00:37:31.220 aware

00:37:31.600 of the

00:37:32.800 inroads

00:37:33.160 that

00:37:33.300 christianity

00:37:33.760 has made

00:37:34.480 and the

00:37:35.080 way that

00:37:35.500 it's

00:37:35.740 gained

00:37:36.000 power

00:37:36.440 up to

00:37:36.880 this

00:37:37.080 point

00:37:37.380 yeah

00:37:38.420 and he

00:37:38.620 really

00:37:38.800 doesn't

00:37:39.040 want to

00:37:39.280 let to

00:37:39.700 let the

00:37:39.940 christians

00:37:40.280 do the

00:37:40.620 martyr

00:37:40.860 game

00:37:41.240 he knows

00:37:41.640 that game

00:37:42.060 very well

00:37:43.020 and you can

00:37:43.900 kind of compare

00:37:44.460 the way that

00:37:45.020 the left

00:37:45.500 took over

00:37:46.120 institutions

00:37:46.820 by promoting

00:37:47.500 their own

00:37:47.840 people

00:37:48.240 and then

00:37:48.720 you're not

00:37:49.180 openly

00:37:50.300 persecuting

00:37:51.140 christians

00:37:51.700 and religious

00:37:52.200 folks

00:37:52.800 and

00:37:53.080 right

00:37:53.460 wingers

00:37:53.880 but

00:37:54.060 like

00:37:54.340 you know

00:37:54.920 if a

00:37:55.200 riot

00:37:55.420 would

00:37:55.600 break

00:37:55.880 out

00:37:56.300 they

00:37:56.720 go

00:37:57.040 soft

00:37:57.560 on

00:37:57.800 the

00:37:58.040 you know

00:37:58.400 like

00:37:58.880 an

00:37:59.000 anti-christian

00:37:59.620 riot

00:37:59.940 julian

00:38:01.100 would go

00:38:01.380 soft

00:38:01.760 on them

00:38:02.220 on the

00:38:03.200 pagan

00:38:03.460 perpetrators

00:38:04.340 but he

00:38:05.180 he wanted

00:38:05.880 it to be

00:38:06.320 decentralized

00:38:06.860 though

00:38:07.300 if there

00:38:07.960 was

00:38:08.180 persecution

00:38:08.720 which

00:38:09.060 started

00:38:09.760 to ramp

00:38:10.140 up

00:38:10.440 later

00:38:10.980 in his

00:38:11.260 reign

00:38:11.520 but he

00:38:12.240 wanted

00:38:12.420 to

00:38:12.560 kind

00:38:12.700 of

00:38:12.780 play

00:38:12.980 soft

00:38:13.420 and

00:38:13.820 make

00:38:14.500 it

00:38:14.660 seem

00:38:14.940 like

00:38:15.180 it

00:38:15.320 was

00:38:15.440 all

00:38:15.720 kind

00:38:16.000 of

00:38:16.080 organic

00:38:16.520 which

00:38:16.960 I

00:38:17.020 think

00:38:17.120 was

00:38:17.240 really

00:38:17.460 savvy

00:38:17.800 on

00:38:17.980 his

00:38:18.160 part

00:38:18.460 so

00:38:20.180 another

00:38:20.400 couple

00:38:20.800 of

00:38:20.900 things

00:38:21.060 that

00:38:21.160 he

00:38:21.240 does

00:38:21.560 is

00:38:21.780 he

00:38:21.900 takes

00:38:22.140 away

00:38:22.280 the

00:38:22.440 tax

00:38:22.760 exempt

00:38:23.040 status

00:38:23.460 of

00:38:23.660 bishops

00:38:24.020 bishops

00:38:24.500 were

00:38:24.860 tax

00:38:25.760 exempt

00:38:26.120 he

00:38:27.620 restored

00:38:28.440 those

00:38:28.660 funds

00:38:28.920 to

00:38:29.100 the

00:38:29.240 churches

00:38:29.680 that

00:38:30.420 Constantine

00:38:31.080 restores

00:38:32.260 them to

00:38:32.600 the

00:38:32.760 temples

00:38:33.160 that

00:38:33.860 Constantine

00:38:34.280 directed

00:38:34.660 the

00:38:34.880 churches

00:38:35.200 but

00:38:36.080 I

00:38:36.400 think

00:38:36.520 the

00:38:36.620 most

00:38:36.760 interesting

00:38:37.180 thing

00:38:38.580 I

00:38:39.160 think

00:38:39.300 those

00:38:39.480 were

00:38:39.620 all

00:38:39.820 successful

00:38:40.300 in

00:38:41.100 theory

00:38:41.440 like

00:38:41.720 those

00:38:41.960 were

00:38:42.160 good

00:38:42.480 Julian

00:38:43.040 was

00:38:43.220 a

00:38:46.080 strength

00:38:49.760 of

00:38:49.900 his

00:38:50.000 but

00:38:50.180 I

00:38:50.440 think

00:38:50.580 the

00:38:50.840 best

00:38:51.760 thing

00:38:51.980 that

00:38:52.120 he

00:38:52.200 did

00:38:52.460 or

00:38:52.640 the

00:38:52.840 most

00:38:53.380 effective

00:38:53.780 thing

00:38:54.560 if it

00:38:54.860 had

00:38:55.000 stayed

00:38:55.340 in

00:38:55.520 place

00:38:55.820 was

00:38:56.400 he

00:38:56.540 issues

00:38:57.020 this

00:38:57.460 rescript

00:38:58.420 this

00:38:58.660 edict

00:38:59.060 banning

00:39:00.460 Christians

00:39:01.040 from

00:39:01.680 teaching

00:39:02.300 pagan

00:39:02.740 literature

00:39:03.120 and

00:39:04.380 this

00:39:04.580 is a

00:39:05.240 huge

00:39:05.580 move

00:39:06.040 and

00:39:06.400 it

00:39:06.500 was

00:39:06.660 the

00:39:06.900 Christians

00:39:07.260 recognized

00:39:08.400 the

00:39:08.660 stakes

00:39:09.020 immediately

00:39:09.820 so

00:39:10.560 Christian

00:39:11.020 teachers

00:39:11.480 they

00:39:11.820 have

00:39:12.360 they

00:39:12.760 have

00:39:12.940 biblical

00:39:13.280 schools

00:39:14.000 and

00:39:14.340 this

00:39:15.020 and

00:39:15.140 that

00:39:15.320 place

00:39:15.760 where

00:39:16.340 they'll

00:39:16.700 teach

00:39:17.420 you

00:39:17.620 to

00:39:18.020 be

00:39:18.480 an

00:39:18.660 orator

00:39:19.080 using

00:39:20.100 the

00:39:20.360 Old

00:39:20.560 Testament

00:39:20.920 and

00:39:21.080 the

00:39:21.180 New

00:39:21.300 Testament

00:39:21.660 but

00:39:22.000 it's

00:39:22.140 kind

00:39:22.320 of

00:39:22.440 fringe

00:39:22.940 and

00:39:23.240 they're

00:39:23.380 way

00:39:23.680 behind

00:39:24.100 and

00:39:24.500 it

00:39:24.620 just

00:39:24.780 doesn't

00:39:25.060 have

00:39:25.260 the

00:39:25.420 same

00:39:25.600 kind

00:39:25.840 of

00:39:25.960 cultural

00:39:26.360 clout

00:39:26.820 if

00:39:27.480 you

00:39:27.600 want

00:39:27.800 to

00:39:27.880 be

00:39:28.220 a

00:39:28.880 high

00:39:29.200 paid

00:39:30.200 high

00:39:31.160 ranking

00:39:31.660 senator

00:39:32.240 you

00:39:32.880 need

00:39:33.080 to

00:39:33.180 know

00:39:33.300 the

00:39:33.440 pagan

00:39:33.660 classics

00:39:34.200 and

00:39:34.800 so

00:39:34.940 by

00:39:35.340 he

00:39:36.520 bans

00:39:37.080 Christian

00:39:37.600 teachers

00:39:38.300 from

00:39:38.660 teaching

00:39:39.060 this

00:39:39.360 stuff

00:39:39.820 with

00:39:40.940 the

00:39:41.120 argument

00:39:41.500 that

00:39:41.980 well

00:39:42.740 teachers

00:39:44.460 of

00:39:44.660 rhetoric

00:39:44.940 are

00:39:45.320 also

00:39:45.520 teachers

00:39:45.800 of

00:39:46.000 morals

00:39:46.320 they

00:39:47.340 would

00:39:47.460 call

00:39:47.620 it

00:39:47.740 political

00:39:48.080 philosophy

00:39:48.580 but

00:39:50.840 if

00:39:51.180 these

00:39:51.400 people

00:39:51.800 don't

00:39:52.340 believe

00:39:52.540 in

00:39:52.640 the

00:39:52.740 gods

00:39:53.160 and

00:39:53.340 yet

00:39:53.460 they're

00:39:53.580 teaching

00:39:53.840 the

00:39:54.020 gods

00:39:54.440 then

00:39:54.920 they're

00:39:55.480 liars

00:39:56.240 and

00:39:56.720 dishonest

00:39:57.300 and

00:39:57.480 they're

00:39:57.800 they're

00:39:58.100 just

00:39:58.240 money

00:39:58.520 grubbers

00:39:59.040 and

00:39:59.980 so

00:40:00.680 we

00:40:01.420 need

00:40:01.580 to

00:40:01.680 have

00:40:02.020 more

00:40:02.440 upstanding

00:40:02.900 moral

00:40:03.400 characters

00:40:04.660 teaching

00:40:05.300 our

00:40:05.560 youth

00:40:05.920 and

00:40:06.660 so

00:40:06.800 he

00:40:06.960 bans

00:40:07.280 Christians

00:40:07.620 from

00:40:07.800 teaching

00:40:08.220 the

00:40:09.580 pagan

00:40:10.620 classics

00:40:10.980 for

00:40:11.200 that

00:40:11.360 reason

00:40:11.740 interestingly

00:40:12.980 he

00:40:13.200 doesn't

00:40:13.540 ban

00:40:13.900 Christian

00:40:14.300 students

00:40:14.820 from

00:40:15.040 studying

00:40:15.400 them

00:40:15.720 and

00:40:16.900 I

00:40:16.980 think

00:40:17.120 he

00:40:17.280 realizes

00:40:17.660 what

00:40:18.120 you

00:40:18.260 really

00:40:18.520 want

00:40:18.860 the

00:40:19.080 ideal

00:40:19.420 situation

00:40:19.940 if

00:40:20.100 you're

00:40:20.220 trying

00:40:20.380 to

00:40:20.500 indoctrinate

00:40:22.020 people

00:40:22.360 is

00:40:22.780 let

00:40:23.040 everybody

00:40:23.580 take

00:40:24.060 the

00:40:24.700 courses

00:40:25.100 but

00:40:25.960 only

00:40:26.380 the

00:40:27.020 pagans

00:40:27.480 only the

00:40:27.840 people

00:40:28.160 who

00:40:28.420 represent

00:40:29.040 ideology

00:40:29.520 that

00:40:29.780 you

00:40:29.900 want

00:40:30.260 to

00:40:30.380 teach

00:40:30.900 it

00:40:31.160 right

00:40:31.840 and

00:40:32.660 so

00:40:33.040 many

00:40:33.720 lessons

00:40:34.380 for

00:40:35.000 today

00:40:35.400 the

00:40:35.700 way

00:40:35.860 that

00:40:36.040 the

00:40:36.260 left

00:40:36.540 has

00:40:36.700 captured

00:40:36.960 the

00:40:37.140 educational

00:40:37.600 institutions

00:40:38.440 and

00:40:39.860 within

00:40:40.280 a

00:40:40.540 generation

00:40:40.900 or two

00:40:41.280 this

00:40:41.540 would

00:40:41.740 have

00:40:41.940 probably

00:40:42.720 removed

00:40:43.400 most

00:40:43.700 of

00:40:43.820 the

00:40:43.920 Christians

00:40:44.240 from

00:40:44.600 higher

00:40:45.020 office

00:40:45.380 and

00:40:45.580 positions

00:40:45.900 of

00:40:46.100 prominence

00:40:46.480 in

00:40:46.620 society

00:40:47.040 yeah

00:40:47.880 I

00:40:48.020 think

00:40:48.340 you're

00:40:48.500 exactly

00:40:48.840 right

00:40:49.220 to

00:40:49.480 point

00:40:49.960 out

00:40:50.300 the

00:40:50.620 critical

00:40:51.280 parallels

00:40:52.580 that

00:40:52.780 we

00:40:52.900 have

00:40:53.200 today

00:40:53.680 you

00:40:54.480 have

00:40:55.200 a

00:40:55.680 recognition

00:40:56.780 that

00:40:57.740 there

00:40:57.960 is

00:40:58.200 no

00:40:58.480 moral

00:40:59.620 morally

00:41:00.280 neutral

00:41:00.780 education

00:41:01.500 right

00:41:01.980 that

00:41:02.220 part

00:41:02.560 of

00:41:02.760 education

00:41:03.280 is

00:41:04.120 the

00:41:04.340 moral

00:41:04.640 system

00:41:05.000 in

00:41:05.140 fact

00:41:05.320 the

00:41:05.860 most

00:41:06.200 important

00:41:06.800 part

00:41:07.280 of

00:41:07.440 education

00:41:07.940 is

00:41:08.160 not

00:41:08.340 the

00:41:08.520 facts

00:41:08.960 it's

00:41:09.380 not

00:41:09.500 the

00:41:09.660 figures

00:41:10.100 it's

00:41:10.640 not

00:41:10.760 the

00:41:10.880 ability

00:41:11.160 to

00:41:11.320 perform

00:41:11.660 a

00:41:11.840 task

00:41:12.220 at

00:41:12.360 a

00:41:12.500 job

00:41:12.900 what

00:41:13.760 education

00:41:14.240 is

00:41:14.700 for

00:41:15.340 is

00:41:16.120 to

00:41:16.360 make

00:41:16.840 a

00:41:17.280 citizen

00:41:17.960 to

00:41:18.240 make

00:41:18.540 someone

00:41:18.980 who

00:41:19.340 they

00:41:19.600 should

00:41:19.900 be

00:41:20.220 inside

00:41:21.180 your

00:41:22.180 society

00:41:23.060 and

00:41:23.520 so

00:41:23.740 you

00:41:24.020 are

00:41:24.320 inculcating

00:41:25.060 them

00:41:25.440 in

00:41:26.080 all

00:41:26.360 of

00:41:26.480 these

00:41:26.640 different

00:41:26.920 values

00:41:27.340 all

00:41:27.560 these

00:41:27.720 different

00:41:27.940 virtues

00:41:28.240 all

00:41:28.460 these

00:41:28.600 different

00:41:28.880 beliefs

00:41:29.300 and

00:41:29.720 so

00:41:29.860 even

00:41:30.220 if

00:41:30.600 you

00:41:31.200 can

00:41:31.540 just

00:41:31.920 cut

00:41:32.300 off

00:41:32.600 access

00:41:33.080 to

00:41:33.420 those

00:41:33.740 things

00:41:33.960 not

00:41:34.140 only

00:41:34.400 are

00:41:34.640 you

00:41:34.860 making

00:41:35.380 sure

00:41:35.700 that

00:41:35.900 only

00:41:36.280 people

00:41:36.740 who

00:41:37.100 agree

00:41:37.480 with

00:41:37.740 you

00:41:37.980 have

00:41:38.780 control

00:41:39.300 of

00:41:39.540 these

00:41:39.780 elite

00:41:40.220 status

00:41:40.920 markers

00:41:42.320 but

00:41:43.180 you're

00:41:43.300 also

00:41:43.520 making

00:41:43.800 sure

00:41:44.100 that

00:41:44.340 it's

00:41:44.480 impossible

00:41:44.980 for

00:41:45.240 a

00:41:45.400 Christian

00:41:45.580 to move

00:41:46.100 down

00:41:46.420 this

00:41:46.680 path

00:41:47.040 eventually

00:41:47.480 you're

00:41:47.860 slowly

00:41:48.520 cutting

00:41:48.920 off

00:41:49.340 social

00:41:49.780 advancement

00:41:50.360 and

00:41:51.060 education

00:41:51.740 and

00:41:52.480 this

00:41:52.840 is

00:41:53.040 as

00:41:53.240 you

00:41:53.360 point

00:41:53.620 out

00:41:53.860 a lot

00:41:54.520 of

00:41:54.640 parallels

00:41:54.980 between

00:41:55.320 what

00:41:55.500 we're

00:41:55.620 seeing

00:41:55.880 today

00:41:56.260 so

00:41:56.760 this

00:41:56.980 is

00:41:57.400 a

00:41:57.560 move

00:41:57.820 that

00:41:58.020 is

00:41:58.180 thousands

00:41:58.720 of

00:41:59.100 years

00:41:59.340 old

00:41:59.640 this

00:41:59.880 is

00:42:00.020 not

00:42:00.220 the

00:42:00.700 long

00:42:00.960 march

00:42:01.200 of

00:42:01.320 institutions

00:42:01.840 is

00:42:02.180 not

00:42:02.360 some

00:42:02.540 kind

00:42:02.720 of

00:42:02.960 insidious

00:42:03.540 technology

00:42:04.260 that

00:42:04.600 neo-Marxists

00:42:05.400 came up

00:42:06.020 with

00:42:06.300 Frankfurt

00:42:06.760 school

00:42:07.060 cooked

00:42:07.320 it

00:42:07.440 up

00:42:07.580 somewhere

00:42:08.020 stapling

00:42:09.780 their

00:42:10.020 fingers

00:42:10.780 this

00:42:11.420 is

00:42:11.860 a

00:42:12.360 recognized

00:42:13.280 tactic

00:42:13.860 for

00:42:14.180 thousands

00:42:14.640 of

00:42:14.980 years

00:42:15.200 for

00:42:15.360 those

00:42:15.580 that

00:42:15.980 are

00:42:16.100 looking

00:42:16.320 to

00:42:16.640 direct

00:42:17.080 the

00:42:17.280 way

00:42:17.480 in

00:42:17.760 which

00:42:18.180 your

00:42:18.640 society

00:42:19.100 is

00:42:19.520 going

00:42:19.700 to

00:42:19.860 structure

00:42:20.120 itself

00:42:20.460 around

00:42:20.740 morals

00:42:21.120 and

00:42:21.640 values

00:42:22.200 yeah

00:42:23.420 and

00:42:23.960 you know

00:42:24.860 and

00:42:25.040 I think

00:42:25.620 he was

00:42:25.860 right

00:42:26.060 to

00:42:26.200 point

00:42:26.380 out

00:42:26.540 it's

00:42:26.760 not

00:42:26.940 so

00:42:27.140 much

00:42:27.300 what

00:42:27.460 you

00:42:27.580 teach

00:42:27.840 it's

00:42:28.020 who's

00:42:28.260 teaching

00:42:28.580 it

00:42:28.800 that

00:42:29.160 is

00:42:29.380 maybe

00:42:29.780 the

00:42:29.940 most

00:42:30.140 important

00:42:30.440 thing

00:42:30.660 that

00:42:30.840 you

00:42:30.940 can

00:42:31.100 control

00:42:31.520 so

00:42:32.620 you

00:42:32.840 know

00:42:33.020 if

00:42:33.640 the

00:42:34.000 Department

00:42:34.320 of

00:42:34.460 Education

00:42:34.860 is

00:42:35.080 dismantled

00:42:35.740 as

00:42:36.040 many

00:42:36.420 are

00:42:36.580 hoping

00:42:36.860 I

00:42:37.120 think

00:42:37.260 that's

00:42:37.480 a

00:42:37.600 step

00:42:38.040 in

00:42:38.160 a

00:42:38.240 good

00:42:38.340 direction

00:42:38.780 but

00:42:40.280 so

00:42:41.300 it

00:42:41.520 seems

00:42:41.720 to

00:42:41.820 be

00:42:41.920 going

00:42:42.100 well

00:42:42.420 at

00:42:42.580 first

00:42:43.000 for

00:42:44.200 Julian

00:42:45.100 you know

00:42:45.380 you've

00:42:45.820 got

00:42:46.120 he meets

00:42:46.780 for

00:42:47.920 example

00:42:48.320 this

00:42:48.760 pagan

00:42:49.500 sorry

00:42:49.940 this

00:42:50.160 Christian

00:42:50.940 bishop

00:42:51.300 at

00:42:52.080 Ilion

00:42:52.600 which is

00:42:53.260 the

00:42:53.540 side

00:42:53.940 of

00:42:54.040 ancient

00:42:54.280 Troy

00:42:54.660 and

00:42:55.500 the

00:42:55.660 guy

00:42:56.020 kind

00:42:57.120 of

00:42:57.360 takes

00:42:58.140 him

00:42:58.280 on

00:42:58.380 this

00:42:58.540 secret

00:42:58.880 tour

00:42:59.300 of

00:42:59.500 the

00:42:59.660 temples

00:43:00.000 that

00:43:00.200 have

00:43:00.280 been

00:43:00.400 shut

00:43:00.620 down

00:43:00.940 and

00:43:01.040 he

00:43:01.160 shows

00:43:01.420 him

00:43:01.540 some

00:43:01.680 of

00:43:01.760 the

00:43:01.880 sacred

00:43:02.180 religious

00:43:03.020 objects

00:43:03.820 and

00:43:04.220 the

00:43:04.660 artwork

00:43:05.020 and

00:43:05.440 he

00:43:05.540 has

00:43:05.680 reverence

00:43:06.460 to

00:43:06.620 it

00:43:06.740 Julian

00:43:07.920 gets

00:43:08.280 a

00:43:08.420 sense

00:43:08.600 that

00:43:08.740 there's

00:43:08.900 a lot

00:43:09.320 of

00:43:09.460 elites

00:43:09.800 that

00:43:10.120 have

00:43:10.400 become

00:43:11.100 Christians

00:43:11.520 and

00:43:11.760 maybe

00:43:11.960 they're

00:43:12.220 earnest

00:43:12.520 Christians

00:43:12.960 but

00:43:13.220 they're

00:43:13.380 not

00:43:13.620 so

00:43:13.860 earnest

00:43:14.160 that

00:43:14.400 they're

00:43:14.640 not

00:43:15.080 also

00:43:15.460 pagans

00:43:15.940 you know

00:43:16.580 there

00:43:16.760 there's

00:43:17.520 a lot

00:43:17.720 of

00:43:17.900 these

00:43:18.340 people

00:43:18.640 are

00:43:18.780 used

00:43:18.960 to

00:43:19.120 syncretism

00:43:19.740 and

00:43:20.540 kind

00:43:21.140 of

00:43:21.240 looking

00:43:21.520 at

00:43:21.680 the

00:43:21.800 deeper

00:43:22.000 meanings

00:43:22.400 and

00:43:22.580 this

00:43:22.700 goes

00:43:22.860 on

00:43:23.160 for

00:43:23.400 centuries

00:43:23.840 after

00:43:24.240 Julian

00:43:25.820 reigned

00:43:27.040 but

00:43:27.800 so

00:43:29.360 it

00:43:29.840 seems

00:43:30.040 to be

00:43:30.180 going

00:43:30.320 well

00:43:30.500 at

00:43:30.640 first

00:43:30.920 and

00:43:31.140 so

00:43:31.360 Julian

00:43:31.880 is

00:43:32.060 encouraged

00:43:32.420 and

00:43:32.740 he

00:43:32.840 goes

00:43:33.040 on

00:43:33.320 to

00:43:33.520 do

00:43:33.840 some

00:43:34.060 really

00:43:34.540 interesting

00:43:35.160 creative

00:43:35.620 things

00:43:35.940 to try

00:43:36.260 to

00:43:36.400 build

00:43:36.680 up

00:43:36.980 the

00:43:37.560 pagan

00:43:37.980 religion

00:43:39.320 I

00:43:39.580 almost

00:43:39.920 want

00:43:40.060 to

00:43:40.120 say

00:43:40.220 the

00:43:40.340 pagan

00:43:40.580 church

00:43:41.040 because

00:43:41.320 the way

00:43:41.560 that

00:43:41.720 Julian

00:43:42.200 approaches

00:43:42.620 it

00:43:42.800 is

00:43:42.920 very

00:43:43.300 creative

00:43:44.540 and

00:43:46.320 I

00:43:46.620 think

00:43:46.880 that

00:43:47.040 these

00:43:47.180 were

00:43:47.300 not

00:43:47.520 so

00:43:47.700 successful

00:43:48.140 or

00:43:48.400 they

00:43:48.580 wouldn't

00:43:48.960 have

00:43:49.060 been

00:43:49.220 so

00:43:49.420 successful

00:43:49.860 if

00:43:50.100 he

00:43:50.180 had

00:43:50.300 continued

00:43:50.660 down

00:43:50.880 this

00:43:51.060 route

00:43:51.320 but

00:43:51.960 for

00:43:52.260 example

00:43:52.580 he

00:43:52.760 tries

00:43:53.040 to

00:43:53.400 centralize

00:43:54.160 the

00:43:54.340 pagan

00:43:54.580 priesthood

00:43:55.240 he

00:43:56.160 appoints

00:43:56.780 a

00:43:56.900 high

00:43:57.100 priest

00:43:57.320 of

00:43:57.500 Asia

00:43:58.000 who

00:43:59.220 is

00:43:59.340 supposed

00:43:59.600 to

00:43:59.800 appoint

00:44:00.120 all

00:44:00.340 the

00:44:00.500 local

00:44:00.820 priests

00:44:01.320 and

00:44:01.620 be

00:44:01.760 in

00:44:01.900 charge

00:44:02.120 of

00:44:02.240 all

00:44:02.340 the

00:44:02.480 temples

00:44:02.900 and

00:44:04.880 you

00:44:05.020 could

00:44:05.400 probably

00:44:05.700 contrast

00:44:06.240 Constantine

00:44:06.860 like

00:44:07.080 when

00:44:07.280 Constantine

00:44:07.960 promotes

00:44:09.160 Christianity

00:44:09.720 there's

00:44:10.420 already

00:44:10.760 a church

00:44:11.120 structure

00:44:11.540 in

00:44:11.760 place

00:44:12.200 he's

00:44:13.080 kind

00:44:13.840 of

00:44:13.960 inserting

00:44:14.320 himself

00:44:14.780 at

00:44:15.000 the

00:44:15.120 head

00:44:15.580 of

00:44:15.740 it

00:44:15.900 and

00:44:16.040 it's

00:44:16.140 kind

00:44:16.280 of

00:44:16.360 awkward

00:44:16.860 defender

00:44:18.700 of the

00:44:19.020 faith

00:44:19.300 position

00:44:19.800 but

00:44:20.860 Julian

00:44:21.520 is

00:44:21.720 trying

00:44:22.040 to

00:44:22.460 reconstruct

00:44:23.180 a new

00:44:23.960 administrative

00:44:24.420 structure

00:44:24.920 for

00:44:25.160 paganism

00:44:25.780 that

00:44:26.140 looks

00:44:26.500 very

00:44:26.860 churchy

00:44:27.500 you

00:44:27.720 know

00:44:27.880 and

00:44:29.180 he

00:44:30.420 also

00:44:30.700 recognizes

00:44:31.300 that

00:44:31.580 they're

00:44:31.960 the

00:44:32.480 Christians

00:44:32.760 are

00:44:32.960 better

00:44:33.200 at

00:44:33.420 charity

00:44:34.320 than

00:44:34.600 the

00:44:34.760 pagans

00:44:35.280 they

00:44:35.780 have

00:44:36.300 hostels

00:44:37.780 and

00:44:38.380 orphanages

00:44:39.180 and

00:44:39.620 they

00:44:39.820 this

00:44:40.440 is

00:44:40.560 one

00:44:40.700 of

00:44:40.780 the

00:44:40.980 ways

00:44:41.280 that

00:44:41.420 they've

00:44:41.680 converted

00:44:42.160 masses

00:44:43.080 of

00:44:43.240 the

00:44:43.340 people

00:44:43.680 and

00:44:43.960 he

00:44:44.060 says

00:44:44.200 we're

00:44:44.380 terrible

00:44:44.740 at

00:44:44.960 this

00:44:45.340 writes

00:44:45.880 a

00:44:46.000 letter

00:44:46.120 to

00:44:46.280 a

00:44:46.400 friend

00:44:46.560 of

00:44:46.680 his

00:44:46.840 he

00:44:46.960 says

00:44:47.060 we

00:44:47.220 got

00:44:47.600 to

00:44:47.720 do

00:44:47.880 this

00:44:48.180 and

00:44:48.820 importantly

00:44:49.500 we

00:44:50.100 shouldn't

00:44:50.460 just

00:44:50.820 have

00:44:51.420 charity

00:44:55.160 do

00:44:55.540 they

00:44:55.980 know

00:44:56.140 how

00:44:56.240 this

00:44:56.400 works

00:44:56.780 and

00:44:57.280 we

00:44:57.380 have

00:44:57.520 to

00:44:57.640 learn

00:44:57.800 from

00:44:57.980 them

00:44:58.260 so

00:45:00.340 those

00:45:00.580 might

00:45:01.140 have

00:45:01.520 especially

00:45:02.000 that

00:45:02.220 second

00:45:02.500 move

00:45:02.700 might

00:45:02.940 have

00:45:03.060 been

00:45:03.260 successful

00:45:03.820 one

00:45:05.540 of

00:45:05.640 the

00:45:05.740 things

00:45:05.980 that

00:45:06.140 I

00:45:06.260 think

00:45:06.440 was

00:45:06.840 just

00:45:07.280 doomed

00:45:07.540 to

00:45:07.700 fail

00:45:07.940 is

00:45:08.180 he

00:45:08.520 so

00:45:09.120 Julian

00:45:09.620 in

00:45:10.020 his

00:45:10.180 character

00:45:10.640 he's

00:45:10.900 a

00:45:11.040 very

00:45:11.400 so

00:45:12.020 he

00:45:12.180 likes

00:45:12.560 to

00:45:12.700 model

00:45:12.880 himself

00:45:13.240 after

00:45:13.860 Marcus

00:45:14.860 Aurelius

00:45:15.400 as a

00:45:15.940 philosopher

00:45:16.280 king

00:45:16.640 he

00:45:16.820 brings

00:45:17.080 back

00:45:17.360 the

00:45:17.560 beard

00:45:17.960 nobody's

00:45:18.520 had

00:45:18.620 a

00:45:18.780 beard

00:45:19.120 since

00:45:19.740 Marcus

00:45:20.060 Aurelius

00:45:25.160 he's

00:45:25.640 very

00:45:25.880 ascetic

00:45:26.360 he

00:45:26.540 sleeps

00:45:26.820 on

00:45:27.000 straw

00:45:27.340 mats

00:45:27.800 he's

00:45:28.380 his

00:45:28.920 wife

00:45:29.940 died

00:45:30.520 and

00:45:31.060 he

00:45:31.240 never

00:45:31.560 approached

00:45:32.200 a

00:45:32.360 woman

00:45:32.520 again

00:45:32.860 for

00:45:33.100 years

00:45:33.500 after

00:45:33.800 that

00:45:34.100 he's

00:45:34.300 very

00:45:34.580 puritanical

00:45:35.420 and

00:45:36.460 he

00:45:37.080 wants

00:45:37.700 the

00:45:37.940 pagan

00:45:38.300 priests

00:45:38.860 to be

00:45:39.680 more

00:45:40.540 moral

00:45:40.900 than

00:45:41.080 the

00:45:41.200 Christians

00:45:41.460 or at

00:45:41.680 least

00:45:41.800 as

00:45:42.220 moral

00:45:42.480 as

00:45:42.660 the

00:45:42.780 Christians

00:45:43.200 the

00:45:43.780 Christians

00:45:44.020 have

00:45:44.200 all

00:45:44.320 these

00:45:44.500 ex

00:45:44.800 monks

00:45:45.180 in

00:45:45.400 the

00:45:45.500 bishop

00:45:45.760 Rick

00:45:46.120 and

00:45:46.260 they

00:45:46.360 have

00:45:46.500 all

00:45:46.620 these

00:45:46.800 ascetic

00:45:47.280 holy

00:45:47.760 men

00:45:48.240 running

00:45:48.900 the

00:45:49.100 church

00:45:49.440 and

00:45:49.620 Julian

00:45:50.080 is

00:45:50.200 like

00:45:55.160 priests

00:45:55.980 from

00:45:56.640 attending

00:45:57.540 the

00:45:58.400 circus

00:45:58.800 the

00:45:59.380 chariot

00:46:00.240 races

00:46:00.560 from

00:46:01.080 attending

00:46:01.580 theater

00:46:02.620 shows

00:46:03.140 he

00:46:03.300 even

00:46:03.640 expresses

00:46:04.760 his

00:46:05.300 disapproval

00:46:06.300 of

00:46:06.500 pagan

00:46:06.800 priests

00:46:07.240 reading

00:46:08.280 romance

00:46:09.360 novels

00:46:09.780 reading

00:46:10.340 erotic

00:46:11.520 fiction

00:46:11.960 which

00:46:12.280 these

00:46:12.820 are

00:46:12.940 very

00:46:13.420 tame

00:46:14.020 by our

00:46:14.420 tastes

00:46:14.740 but

00:46:15.000 Julian

00:46:15.800 saw

00:46:16.100 this

00:46:16.320 as

00:46:16.560 degenerate

00:46:17.560 pagan

00:46:18.360 priests

00:46:18.720 reading

00:46:19.000 love

00:46:19.300 stories

00:46:19.840 boys

00:46:21.280 rescuing

00:46:21.800 damsels

00:46:22.320 and

00:46:22.540 stuff

00:46:22.860 so

00:46:23.780 it's

00:46:24.880 very

00:46:25.180 kind

00:46:25.420 of

00:46:25.520 uncharacteristic

00:46:26.520 to

00:46:26.960 demand

00:46:27.480 that

00:46:27.820 level

00:46:28.080 I

00:46:28.200 mean

00:46:28.300 think

00:46:28.540 of

00:46:28.680 Julius

00:46:29.000 Caesar

00:46:29.420 the

00:46:29.860 pontifex

00:46:30.460 maximus

00:46:31.020 you know

00:46:31.280 like

00:46:31.540 this guy

00:46:32.200 sleeping

00:46:32.480 with

00:46:32.680 everybody's

00:46:33.120 wife

00:46:33.400 and

00:46:33.520 nobody

00:46:33.700 cares

00:46:34.140 it's

00:46:34.500 not

00:46:34.700 really

00:46:34.960 that's

00:46:35.260 not

00:46:35.400 what

00:46:35.540 the

00:46:35.680 pagan

00:46:35.900 priesthood

00:46:36.300 is

00:46:36.460 about

00:46:36.820 it's

00:46:37.760 there

00:46:37.960 is

00:46:38.080 a

00:46:38.180 kind

00:46:38.300 of

00:46:38.420 ritual

00:46:38.720 purity

00:46:39.100 that's

00:46:39.340 important

00:46:39.740 but

00:46:40.580 the

00:46:40.900 idea

00:46:41.180 that

00:46:41.360 they

00:46:41.500 shouldn't

00:46:41.740 be

00:46:41.860 sleeping

00:46:42.180 on

00:46:42.400 luxurious

00:46:42.840 couches

00:46:43.360 and

00:46:43.480 they

00:46:43.580 should

00:46:43.700 kind

00:46:43.880 of

00:46:43.960 adopt

00:46:44.340 Christian

00:46:45.000 asceticism

00:46:45.600 was a

00:46:46.300 real

00:46:46.440 shocker

00:46:46.980 to

00:46:47.260 a lot

00:46:47.560 of

00:46:47.700 priests

00:46:48.020 and

00:46:48.180 I

00:46:48.380 don't

00:46:48.480 think

00:46:48.640 he

00:46:48.740 got

00:46:48.880 a

00:46:48.980 whole

00:46:49.100 lot

00:46:49.280 of

00:46:49.400 buy

00:46:49.620 in

00:46:49.740 on

00:46:49.880 that

00:46:50.040 one

00:46:50.240 yeah

00:46:51.280 it's

00:46:51.460 very

00:46:51.640 interesting

00:46:52.080 that

00:46:52.580 again

00:46:52.960 it feels

00:46:54.620 like

00:46:54.900 yes

00:46:55.200 he's

00:46:55.380 pushing

00:46:55.620 back

00:46:56.040 towards

00:46:56.560 a

00:46:57.060 hellenic

00:46:57.400 paganism

00:46:58.060 but

00:46:58.400 with

00:46:58.860 a lot

00:46:59.180 of

00:46:59.300 Christian

00:46:59.640 features

00:47:00.140 like

00:47:00.700 we

00:47:00.840 have

00:47:01.060 to

00:47:01.320 out

00:47:01.840 compete

00:47:02.260 them

00:47:02.460 and

00:47:02.560 again

00:47:02.800 not to

00:47:04.420 always

00:47:04.680 draw

00:47:04.880 the

00:47:05.120 clumsy

00:47:05.520 modern

00:47:05.900 parallels

00:47:06.300 but

00:47:06.520 well

00:47:06.720 actually

00:47:06.960 that

00:47:07.140 is

00:47:07.260 what

00:47:07.380 we're

00:47:07.500 here

00:47:15.000 biggest

00:47:15.200 ice

00:47:15.460 cream

00:47:15.680 sundae

00:47:16.320 and

00:47:16.720 we're

00:47:17.260 going

00:47:17.420 to

00:47:17.640 show

00:47:18.080 a bunch

00:47:18.340 of

00:47:18.460 movies

00:47:18.800 and

00:47:19.180 have

00:47:19.480 rock

00:47:20.480 bands

00:47:20.840 and

00:47:21.020 I'm

00:47:22.420 a

00:47:22.520 Christian

00:47:22.760 metal

00:47:22.960 fan

00:47:23.300 so

00:47:23.440 I'm

00:47:23.540 not

00:47:24.060 knocking

00:47:24.640 all

00:47:24.860 of it

00:47:25.040 but

00:47:25.140 what

00:47:25.300 I'm

00:47:25.400 saying

00:47:25.640 is

00:47:25.880 you

00:47:26.320 have

00:47:26.840 this

00:47:27.120 feeling

00:47:27.620 of

00:47:28.000 we're

00:47:28.400 going

00:47:28.480 to

00:47:28.560 outworld

00:47:29.020 the

00:47:29.240 world

00:47:29.540 we see

00:47:30.920 what's

00:47:31.180 popular

00:47:31.620 we see

00:47:32.140 what the

00:47:32.400 kids

00:47:32.640 these

00:47:32.940 days

00:47:33.220 like

00:47:33.620 and

00:47:34.140 so

00:47:34.300 rather

00:47:34.520 be

00:47:34.820 confident

00:47:35.620 in

00:47:35.980 who

00:47:36.180 we

00:47:36.360 are

00:47:36.600 and

00:47:36.740 what

00:47:36.940 we

00:47:37.140 did

00:47:37.500 we're

00:47:38.300 going

00:47:38.420 to

00:47:38.540 hold

00:47:38.780 ourselves

00:47:39.140 to

00:47:39.400 the

00:47:39.560 standard

00:47:39.940 of

00:47:40.620 that

00:47:41.260 group

00:47:41.880 that

00:47:42.100 is

00:47:42.240 currently

00:47:42.680 kind

00:47:43.460 of

00:47:43.540 in

00:47:43.700 power

00:47:44.100 and

00:47:44.860 so

00:47:45.280 even

00:47:45.940 the

00:47:46.280 attempts

00:47:46.600 to

00:47:46.840 restore

00:47:47.360 the

00:47:47.820 religion

00:47:48.400 feel

00:47:48.940 kind

00:47:49.320 of

00:47:49.460 out

00:47:50.000 of

00:47:50.160 place

00:47:50.540 because

00:47:50.840 ultimately

00:47:51.320 they're

00:47:51.680 kind

00:47:51.840 of

00:47:51.960 following

00:47:52.560 the

00:47:53.180 cultural

00:47:53.560 markers

00:47:54.060 of a

00:47:54.580 different

00:47:54.800 system

00:47:55.220 so

00:47:55.400 even

00:47:55.540 though

00:47:55.700 they're

00:47:56.080 subbing

00:47:56.540 in

00:47:56.780 pagan

00:47:57.160 versions

00:47:57.760 of

00:47:58.220 monotheism

00:47:59.280 or

00:47:59.660 charity

00:48:00.320 or

00:48:00.860 austerity

00:48:01.860 they're

00:48:02.860 really

00:48:03.120 just

00:48:03.620 aping

00:48:04.600 the

00:48:05.100 things

00:48:05.560 that

00:48:05.720 people

00:48:05.960 are

00:48:06.160 admiring

00:48:06.860 about

00:48:07.100 Christianity

00:48:07.540 and

00:48:07.960 so

00:48:08.080 they're

00:48:08.220 always

00:48:08.480 being

00:48:08.740 outdone

00:48:09.140 right

00:48:09.520 if

00:48:09.720 you

00:48:09.840 wanted

00:48:10.040 to

00:48:10.300 really

00:48:10.700 push

00:48:10.900 it

00:48:11.000 back

00:48:11.200 against

00:48:11.740 this

00:48:11.920 be

00:48:12.360 pagan

00:48:12.780 like

00:48:13.020 be

00:48:13.220 the

00:48:13.400 most

00:48:13.600 pagan

00:48:13.900 you

00:48:14.140 can

00:48:14.320 be

00:48:14.580 right

00:48:14.860 in

00:48:15.560 the

00:48:15.700 same

00:48:15.860 way

00:48:16.040 that

00:48:16.300 you know

00:48:16.660 the

00:48:16.780 Christian

00:48:17.020 denominations

00:48:17.680 that are

00:48:18.020 demanding

00:48:18.560 more

00:48:18.960 of

00:48:19.140 people

00:48:19.380 today

00:48:19.820 are

00:48:20.380 the

00:48:20.520 ones

00:48:20.740 that

00:48:20.880 are

00:48:20.980 actually

00:48:21.220 surviving

00:48:21.860 as

00:48:22.180 where

00:48:22.360 the

00:48:22.500 mainline

00:48:22.860 Protestants

00:48:23.500 and

00:48:23.740 you know

00:48:24.600 certain

00:48:25.280 aspects

00:48:25.760 of

00:48:25.960 Catholicism

00:48:26.560 that

00:48:26.780 are

00:48:26.900 bowing

00:48:27.360 towards

00:48:27.920 kind

00:48:28.680 of

00:48:28.760 modernity

00:48:29.260 are

00:48:29.440 the

00:48:29.580 ones

00:48:29.820 that

00:48:30.020 are

00:48:30.220 losing

00:48:30.760 the

00:48:30.980 most

00:48:31.180 people

00:48:31.540 now

00:48:32.060 he

00:48:32.320 doesn't

00:48:32.680 just

00:48:33.000 shift

00:48:33.440 the

00:48:34.320 you know

00:48:34.860 public

00:48:35.440 support

00:48:35.980 he

00:48:36.360 doesn't

00:48:36.700 just

00:48:37.080 encourage

00:48:38.100 you know

00:48:38.500 the right

00:48:38.820 people to

00:48:39.200 be

00:48:39.320 teachers

00:48:39.680 he

00:48:40.160 actually

00:48:40.540 attempts

00:48:41.160 a little

00:48:41.640 bit

00:48:41.820 to take

00:48:42.260 prophecy

00:48:42.740 into his

00:48:43.540 own

00:48:43.760 hands

00:48:44.120 right

00:48:44.340 Christ

00:48:44.980 famously

00:48:46.240 predicted

00:48:47.060 that the

00:48:47.460 temple

00:48:47.720 would fall

00:48:48.700 and that

00:48:49.380 it would

00:48:49.680 not be

00:48:50.020 rebuilt

00:48:50.400 and

00:48:51.480 Julian

00:48:51.860 says

00:48:52.120 well funny

00:48:52.700 about that

00:48:53.300 I'm

00:48:53.740 the emperor

00:48:54.200 I can

00:48:54.940 prove you

00:48:55.920 wrong

00:48:56.240 I can

00:48:56.560 just

00:48:56.740 prove

00:48:57.100 Christianity

00:48:57.580 is wrong

00:48:58.180 and then

00:48:59.120 you know

00:48:59.500 it'll be

00:48:59.880 defeated

00:49:00.280 so what

00:49:00.720 what

00:49:00.920 happened

00:49:01.200 there

00:49:01.500 yeah

00:49:02.820 so

00:49:03.200 the

00:49:03.720 the

00:49:04.040 Jewish

00:49:04.340 temple

00:49:04.720 has

00:49:05.320 been

00:49:05.780 in

00:49:06.560 ruins

00:49:06.960 since

00:49:07.540 79

00:49:08.080 AD

00:49:08.380 there have

00:49:09.720 been

00:49:09.840 some

00:49:10.040 abortive

00:49:10.480 attempts

00:49:10.880 to

00:49:11.300 to

00:49:11.700 reconstruct

00:49:12.880 it

00:49:13.340 but

00:49:14.680 essentially

00:49:15.600 the Jews

00:49:16.720 have been

00:49:16.980 banned

00:49:17.380 from the

00:49:17.760 temple

00:49:17.980 mount

00:49:18.360 except

00:49:18.840 for one

00:49:19.240 day

00:49:19.380 of the

00:49:19.600 year

00:49:19.920 officially

00:49:20.460 since

00:49:20.880 the reign

00:49:21.240 of

00:49:21.400 Hadrian

00:49:21.840 the

00:49:22.060 Bar

00:49:22.240 Kokhba

00:49:22.620 revolt

00:49:23.040 and

00:49:23.960 so

00:49:24.480 this

00:49:25.560 is

00:49:25.700 not

00:49:25.920 really

00:49:26.120 enforced

00:49:26.480 in

00:49:26.580 the

00:49:26.660 4th

00:49:26.860 century

00:49:27.100 but

00:49:27.320 Julian

00:49:27.700 approaches

00:49:29.180 the Jews

00:49:29.680 and he

00:49:29.900 says

00:49:30.220 hey

00:49:31.000 you guys

00:49:31.520 have an

00:49:31.760 old religion

00:49:32.340 older than

00:49:32.940 those

00:49:33.220 bozo

00:49:33.700 Christians

00:49:34.100 over there

00:49:34.660 you guys

00:49:36.220 really like

00:49:36.720 sacrifice

00:49:37.240 I like

00:49:38.260 sacrifice

00:49:38.800 too

00:49:39.060 I love

00:49:39.420 animal

00:49:39.720 sacrifice

00:49:40.160 I know

00:49:40.500 you guys

00:49:41.020 would love

00:49:41.800 to sacrifice

00:49:42.360 a whole

00:49:42.780 bunch of

00:49:43.100 animals

00:49:43.500 but you

00:49:43.880 can't

00:49:44.340 because

00:49:44.920 Jews

00:49:45.540 can only

00:49:45.900 sacrifice

00:49:46.440 in the

00:49:46.740 temple

00:49:46.980 well

00:49:47.280 I can

00:49:47.980 solve

00:49:48.260 that

00:49:48.440 problem

00:49:48.740 for you

00:49:49.200 and

00:49:49.920 so he

00:49:50.680 approaches

00:49:51.100 them with

00:49:51.340 this idea

00:49:51.700 to rebuild

00:49:52.220 the temple

00:49:52.660 the third

00:49:53.480 temple

00:49:53.900 and

00:49:55.040 the Jews

00:49:56.880 are generally

00:49:57.660 amenable

00:49:58.280 to this

00:49:58.740 I think

00:50:00.000 that

00:50:00.260 it's supposed

00:50:00.920 to be

00:50:01.420 already

00:50:03.160 at this

00:50:03.480 time

00:50:03.680 that they

00:50:03.920 say

00:50:04.060 this

00:50:04.260 prayer

00:50:04.720 I forget

00:50:05.740 what it's

00:50:05.960 called

00:50:06.360 Amida

00:50:07.080 or something

00:50:07.620 but

00:50:07.920 in

00:50:08.360 their

00:50:09.060 synagogue

00:50:09.680 worship

00:50:10.460 they pray

00:50:11.160 that the

00:50:11.560 temple

00:50:11.740 be restored

00:50:12.400 right

00:50:13.120 but

00:50:14.300 there are

00:50:16.260 maybe

00:50:16.520 some Jews

00:50:17.160 that are

00:50:17.600 kind of

00:50:18.080 wary about

00:50:19.220 this

00:50:19.520 especially

00:50:19.880 the

00:50:20.320 leadership

00:50:20.960 of the

00:50:21.300 rabbinic

00:50:21.640 Jews

00:50:21.940 in

00:50:22.160 Tiberias

00:50:22.880 a few

00:50:23.560 miles

00:50:23.860 away

00:50:24.340 they're

00:50:25.700 from the

00:50:26.040 house

00:50:26.200 of

00:50:26.360 Hillel

00:50:26.860 and

00:50:27.160 if

00:50:27.360 the

00:50:27.720 temple

00:50:28.720 is

00:50:28.940 restored

00:50:29.380 then

00:50:29.760 the

00:50:30.000 house

00:50:30.240 of

00:50:30.400 Levi

00:50:30.720 the

00:50:31.060 priestly

00:50:31.420 house

00:50:31.820 is

00:50:32.040 going

00:50:32.220 to

00:50:32.580 come

00:50:33.380 in

00:50:33.560 power

00:50:33.880 and

00:50:34.040 be

00:50:34.140 the

00:50:34.280 patriarchs

00:50:34.820 of

00:50:34.880 the

00:50:35.000 Jews

00:50:35.280 so

00:50:36.020 Julian

00:50:37.300 kind

00:50:37.480 of

00:50:37.560 brushes

00:50:37.800 all

00:50:38.000 that

00:50:38.140 aside

00:50:38.560 he

00:50:38.740 says

00:50:38.840 let's

00:50:39.020 get

00:50:39.140 it

00:50:39.280 done

00:50:39.580 and

00:50:40.460 funny

00:50:41.400 enough

00:50:41.900 the

00:50:42.780 as

00:50:44.760 the

00:50:44.900 construction

00:50:45.320 is

00:50:45.560 going

00:50:45.800 on

00:50:46.320 they

00:50:47.420 there

00:50:47.800 are

00:50:47.940 reports

00:50:48.500 that

00:50:48.940 fireballs

00:50:49.820 kept

00:50:50.420 exploding

00:50:51.280 from

00:50:51.600 the

00:50:51.780 foundations

00:50:52.280 and

00:50:52.840 ruining

00:50:53.220 the

00:50:53.480 work

00:50:53.740 that

00:50:53.900 was

00:50:54.020 going

00:50:54.260 on

00:50:54.640 and

00:50:55.100 interestingly

00:50:55.460 that

00:50:55.740 we're

00:50:56.200 getting

00:50:56.400 this

00:50:56.620 from

00:50:57.020 a

00:50:57.960 very

00:50:58.180 Julian

00:50:58.600 friendly

00:50:59.040 pagan

00:50:59.400 source

00:50:59.840 Ammianus

00:51:00.440 Marcellinus

00:51:01.180 the

00:51:02.180 Christians

00:51:02.480 have all

00:51:02.940 these

00:51:03.280 elaborate

00:51:04.600 portents

00:51:05.200 that

00:51:05.480 you know

00:51:05.960 signify

00:51:06.760 that

00:51:06.940 Providence

00:51:07.500 was at

00:51:07.780 work

00:51:07.920 but

00:51:08.060 essentially

00:51:08.380 there

00:51:09.220 are

00:51:09.700 apparently

00:51:10.660 natural

00:51:11.080 disasters

00:51:11.540 that

00:51:11.820 keep

00:51:12.000 this

00:51:12.140 from

00:51:12.300 happening

00:51:12.680 some

00:51:13.300 historians

00:51:13.680 think

00:51:13.960 that

00:51:14.080 the

00:51:14.320 earthquake

00:51:14.740 of

00:51:15.060 363

00:51:15.800 was

00:51:16.180 the

00:51:16.720 main

00:51:16.960 culprit

00:51:17.340 but

00:51:18.480 unfortunately

00:51:19.600 for

00:51:20.080 Julian

00:51:20.680 and

00:51:21.000 for

00:51:21.480 the

00:51:21.660 Jews

00:51:21.860 at

00:51:21.980 that

00:51:22.120 time

00:51:22.520 it

00:51:24.060 kind

00:51:24.780 of

00:51:24.860 gets

00:51:25.040 scrapped

00:51:25.580 and

00:51:26.260 some

00:51:26.760 of

00:51:26.840 the

00:51:26.960 Jews

00:51:27.160 were

00:51:27.460 also

00:51:28.020 objecting

00:51:28.720 that

00:51:29.000 well

00:51:29.360 isn't

00:51:29.740 the

00:51:29.860 Messiah

00:51:30.260 supposed

00:51:30.600 to

00:51:30.820 rebuild

00:51:31.080 the

00:51:31.260 third

00:51:31.440 temple

00:51:31.800 this

00:51:32.200 guy

00:51:32.440 is

00:51:32.660 an

00:51:33.020 idolater

00:51:33.500 he's

00:51:33.760 not

00:51:33.880 the

00:51:34.020 Messiah

00:51:34.320 something

00:51:34.920 fishy

00:51:35.240 about

00:51:35.500 this

00:51:35.760 so

00:51:36.420 maybe

00:51:36.640 it

00:51:36.760 was

00:51:36.880 sabotage

00:51:37.640 maybe

00:51:37.900 it

00:51:38.020 was

00:51:38.100 natural

00:51:38.400 disaster

00:51:38.940 but

00:51:40.040 Julian

00:51:40.580 really

00:51:40.860 wanted

00:51:41.180 to

00:51:41.540 stick

00:51:42.020 it

00:51:42.180 in

00:51:42.260 the

00:51:42.360 eye

00:51:42.600 of

00:51:42.720 the

00:51:42.840 Christians

00:51:43.200 and

00:51:43.660 disprove

00:51:44.440 the

00:51:44.600 prophecy

00:51:44.960 of

00:51:45.160 Christ

00:51:45.460 but

00:51:45.780 he

00:51:46.140 wasn't

00:51:46.520 able

00:51:46.660 to

00:51:46.800 pull

00:51:46.980 it

00:51:47.100 off

00:51:47.340 maybe

00:51:47.640 if

00:51:47.780 his

00:51:47.920 reign

00:51:48.140 had

00:51:48.520 lasted

00:51:48.880 longer

00:51:49.240 he

00:51:49.440 would

00:51:49.560 have

00:51:49.720 tried

00:51:50.200 to

00:51:50.320 pick

00:51:50.480 it

00:51:50.580 up

00:51:50.700 again

00:51:50.980 yeah

00:51:52.020 I

00:51:52.200 do

00:51:52.340 find

00:51:52.540 that

00:51:52.680 fascinating

00:51:53.220 that

00:51:53.760 even

00:51:54.120 in

00:51:54.520 sources

00:51:54.880 that

00:51:55.180 are

00:51:55.260 not

00:51:55.460 particularly

00:51:55.820 friendly

00:51:56.200 to

00:51:56.440 Christians

00:51:56.780 or

00:51:57.020 not

00:51:57.260 interested

00:51:58.380 in

00:51:59.100 telling

00:51:59.700 the story

00:52:00.120 on behalf

00:52:00.680 of

00:52:00.940 a

00:52:01.480 Christian

00:52:02.100 worldview

00:52:10.040 different

00:52:11.200 things

00:52:11.640 that

00:52:11.860 are

00:52:12.020 preventing

00:52:12.680 this

00:52:13.040 from

00:52:13.260 actually

00:52:13.700 happening

00:52:14.260 a

00:52:14.980 little

00:52:15.300 bit

00:52:15.780 of

00:52:16.060 irony

00:52:16.620 or

00:52:16.920 justice

00:52:17.420 depending

00:52:17.820 on

00:52:18.100 how

00:52:18.360 much

00:52:19.040 you

00:52:19.140 want

00:52:19.260 to

00:52:19.360 read

00:52:19.540 divine

00:52:19.880 events

00:52:20.280 into

00:52:20.920 that

00:52:21.280 but

00:52:22.300 this

00:52:22.920 ultimately

00:52:23.280 brings

00:52:23.820 us

00:52:24.100 to

00:52:24.520 I

00:52:24.740 think

00:52:25.000 Julian's

00:52:25.700 overall

00:52:26.380 failure

00:52:27.320 in this

00:52:27.840 project

00:52:28.360 now

00:52:28.620 you

00:52:28.780 and I

00:52:28.980 were

00:52:29.080 talking

00:52:29.400 before

00:52:29.660 we

00:52:29.860 got

00:52:30.020 started

00:52:30.360 and

00:52:30.540 you

00:52:30.620 were

00:52:30.720 saying

00:52:30.940 you

00:52:31.320 know

00:52:31.420 he

00:52:31.580 was

00:52:31.760 smart

00:52:32.100 about

00:52:32.480 his

00:52:32.720 subversions

00:52:33.420 he

00:52:33.640 understood

00:52:34.100 the

00:52:34.640 importance

00:52:35.120 of

00:52:35.360 kind

00:52:35.560 of

00:52:35.680 building

00:52:36.440 this

00:52:36.980 class

00:52:38.280 distinction

00:52:39.000 especially

00:52:39.460 around

00:52:40.060 Christianity

00:52:40.840 preventing

00:52:41.340 people

00:52:41.700 from

00:52:42.000 elevating

00:52:42.520 themselves

00:52:42.960 politically

00:52:43.520 in the

00:52:44.440 social

00:52:44.740 order

00:52:45.200 making

00:52:45.920 sure

00:52:46.260 that

00:52:46.520 ultimately

00:52:47.080 you know

00:52:47.920 Christian

00:52:48.580 children

00:52:49.040 were being

00:52:49.800 taught

00:52:50.140 by

00:52:50.440 pagans

00:52:51.240 when they

00:52:51.740 were doing

00:52:52.040 these

00:52:52.240 important

00:52:52.540 things

00:52:52.880 so that

00:52:53.220 even if

00:52:53.560 they were

00:52:53.800 welcome

00:52:54.140 in

00:52:54.440 to

00:52:54.980 the

00:52:55.180 education

00:52:55.660 they

00:52:55.880 were

00:52:56.000 receiving

00:52:56.620 kind

00:52:56.900 of a

00:52:57.080 pagan

00:52:57.320 worldview

00:52:57.740 so

00:52:58.260 it's

00:52:58.440 not

00:52:58.620 that

00:52:58.780 his

00:52:58.940 plan

00:52:59.400 may

00:52:59.940 not

00:53:00.220 have

00:53:00.540 worked

00:53:01.280 but

00:53:01.520 what

00:53:02.280 were

00:53:02.840 the

00:53:03.080 things

00:53:03.340 that

00:53:03.580 failed

00:53:04.180 the

00:53:04.360 hardest

00:53:04.680 and

00:53:04.940 ultimately

00:53:05.360 you

00:53:05.820 know

00:53:06.280 part of

00:53:07.500 it

00:53:08.280 so

00:53:08.580 what

00:53:08.900 happened

00:53:09.220 there

00:53:09.520 yeah

00:53:10.800 so

00:53:11.180 Julian

00:53:12.020 is busy

00:53:12.740 in 363

00:53:14.120 planning an

00:53:14.680 invasion of

00:53:15.240 Persia

00:53:15.760 he's a

00:53:16.540 successful

00:53:17.460 military

00:53:18.080 commander

00:53:18.460 already

00:53:18.840 he won

00:53:19.180 an important

00:53:19.820 battle

00:53:20.080 in Gaul

00:53:20.600 before he

00:53:21.040 became

00:53:21.400 emperor

00:53:22.100 but

00:53:23.100 so

00:53:23.700 and

00:53:23.920 the

00:53:24.220 Persian

00:53:24.540 campaign

00:53:24.980 goes well

00:53:25.480 at first

00:53:25.980 but then

00:53:26.520 there's a

00:53:27.080 skirmish

00:53:27.660 after they

00:53:28.840 capture some

00:53:30.040 land back

00:53:30.420 from the

00:53:30.660 Persians

00:53:31.040 and Julian

00:53:31.500 apparently

00:53:32.280 forgets to

00:53:32.800 wear his

00:53:33.140 breastplate

00:53:33.680 and he

00:53:33.920 gets hit

00:53:34.220 by an

00:53:34.540 arrow

00:53:34.920 in the

00:53:35.980 liver

00:53:36.240 and he

00:53:36.760 dies

00:53:37.440 only 20

00:53:38.880 months into

00:53:39.320 his reign

00:53:39.860 but

00:53:40.640 so

00:53:41.500 you know

00:53:41.980 it's worth

00:53:43.060 debating

00:53:43.500 you know

00:53:43.760 maybe if

00:53:44.320 he had

00:53:44.560 reigned for

00:53:45.420 40 odd

00:53:46.180 years like

00:53:46.700 Constantine

00:53:47.260 did or

00:53:47.640 like Augustus

00:53:48.300 did who

00:53:49.280 both

00:53:49.660 brought in

00:53:50.800 great sweeping

00:53:51.760 cultural and

00:53:52.360 religious changes

00:53:53.080 that he could

00:53:53.880 have succeeded

00:53:54.380 but he would

00:53:55.460 have had to

00:53:55.780 change tack

00:53:56.520 and I think

00:53:56.960 this is really

00:53:57.420 illustrated by

00:53:58.300 the

00:53:59.340 interaction he

00:54:00.480 had with

00:54:00.700 the city

00:54:00.940 of Antioch

00:54:01.640 so he

00:54:02.100 goes to

00:54:02.440 Antioch

00:54:03.020 on his

00:54:03.300 way to

00:54:03.680 the Persian

00:54:04.200 campaign

00:54:04.800 and he's

00:54:06.780 thinking

00:54:07.020 oh these

00:54:07.400 you know

00:54:07.840 Antioch's

00:54:08.420 a great

00:54:08.660 city

00:54:08.940 it could

00:54:09.220 be my

00:54:09.560 new

00:54:09.800 capital

00:54:10.180 we

00:54:10.420 could

00:54:10.560 move

00:54:10.720 it

00:54:10.800 away

00:54:10.940 from

00:54:11.120 that

00:54:11.340 atrocious

00:54:12.180 Constantinople

00:54:12.960 place

00:54:13.320 that my

00:54:13.680 terrible

00:54:14.120 uncle

00:54:14.420 founded

00:54:14.840 and they

00:54:16.180 have

00:54:16.440 you know

00:54:16.760 pagan

00:54:17.040 cults

00:54:17.520 still

00:54:17.760 operative

00:54:18.260 there

00:54:18.600 but

00:54:19.040 when he

00:54:20.320 gets to

00:54:20.560 the city

00:54:20.940 he

00:54:21.700 he does

00:54:22.560 this thing

00:54:23.040 where he's

00:54:23.740 the kind

00:54:24.260 of ascetic

00:54:24.880 philosopher

00:54:25.380 he refuses

00:54:26.080 to show

00:54:26.560 up at

00:54:27.300 the chariot

00:54:27.900 races

00:54:28.300 and at

00:54:28.660 the theater

00:54:29.160 he's like

00:54:29.640 that's

00:54:29.940 dirty

00:54:30.300 I don't

00:54:31.280 do that

00:54:31.820 none of

00:54:32.520 you should

00:54:32.760 be doing

00:54:33.120 that

00:54:33.360 I don't

00:54:33.640 approve

00:54:33.980 of this

00:54:34.440 and

00:54:35.460 the people

00:54:36.760 start to

00:54:37.220 make fun

00:54:37.600 of him

00:54:37.940 and

00:54:38.760 like it

00:54:39.740 starts to

00:54:40.160 not

00:54:40.300 it starts

00:54:40.640 to become

00:54:40.980 clear

00:54:41.440 that Julian

00:54:42.120 is great

00:54:43.320 at winning

00:54:43.840 over the

00:54:44.660 elites

00:54:45.020 but he

00:54:45.760 can't play

00:54:46.360 the populist

00:54:47.000 game

00:54:47.320 or he's

00:54:48.100 unwilling

00:54:48.420 to

00:54:48.840 and

00:54:49.740 they make

00:54:50.440 fun of

00:54:50.840 him

00:54:51.120 they tell

00:54:51.980 all these

00:54:52.260 jokes about

00:54:52.760 them

00:54:52.900 he writes

00:54:53.280 these

00:54:53.600 bitter

00:54:54.560 moral

00:54:54.900 diatribes

00:54:55.680 against

00:54:55.940 them

00:54:56.240 one of

00:54:56.660 them is

00:54:56.820 called

00:54:56.960 the

00:54:57.100 beard

00:54:58.960 hater

00:54:59.360 where he's

00:54:59.720 kind of

00:54:59.940 making fun

00:55:00.360 of himself

00:55:00.800 and then he

00:55:01.260 turns it

00:55:01.680 on making

00:55:02.100 fun of

00:55:02.460 the people

00:55:03.300 of Antioch

00:55:04.080 but you

00:55:05.560 know I

00:55:05.760 think I

00:55:06.140 think that

00:55:06.440 whole

00:55:06.840 philosopher

00:55:08.380 king

00:55:08.760 persona

00:55:09.320 just didn't

00:55:10.720 really work

00:55:11.960 in in the

00:55:13.340 kind of

00:55:13.760 public life

00:55:14.660 and importantly

00:55:16.320 also this

00:55:18.040 one incident

00:55:18.960 really illustrates

00:55:19.600 the difficulty

00:55:20.140 of sacrifice

00:55:20.840 which he

00:55:21.400 rightly identifies

00:55:22.540 as kind of

00:55:23.100 one of the

00:55:23.560 keys of

00:55:24.580 pagan public

00:55:25.700 cult

00:55:26.020 he tries

00:55:26.960 he tries

00:55:26.980 to have

00:55:27.460 this

00:55:28.020 sacrifice

00:55:29.160 done

00:55:29.600 and he

00:55:29.900 complains

00:55:30.560 in other

00:55:30.880 places

00:55:31.260 that he's

00:55:32.220 trying to

00:55:32.520 revive the

00:55:32.940 sacrifices

00:55:33.420 but none

00:55:34.220 of the

00:55:34.420 priests

00:55:34.720 know how

00:55:35.160 to do

00:55:35.500 it anymore

00:55:36.000 it's like

00:55:36.780 that living

00:55:37.320 tradition

00:55:37.660 was broken

00:55:38.240 after 50

00:55:39.560 odd years

00:55:40.260 of imperial

00:55:41.380 patrons of

00:55:42.940 Christianity

00:55:43.440 and shutting

00:55:43.960 down the

00:55:44.320 cults

00:55:44.720 so what

00:55:46.120 he ends

00:55:46.600 up doing

00:55:46.980 he tries

00:55:47.680 to get

00:55:47.980 a priest

00:55:48.440 locally

00:55:49.100 to do

00:55:50.060 a ritual

00:55:50.820 for him

00:55:51.460 for I

00:55:52.360 think it's

00:55:52.640 for Apollo

00:55:53.240 and you

00:55:54.960 know

00:55:55.100 he tells

00:55:56.100 the priest

00:55:56.440 get all

00:55:56.780 the stuff

00:55:57.460 ready

00:55:57.740 I'll meet

00:55:58.200 you on

00:55:58.580 such and

00:55:58.960 such day

00:55:59.540 and he

00:56:00.020 goes out

00:56:00.460 to the

00:56:00.780 temple

00:56:01.180 near Antioch

00:56:03.040 or in

00:56:03.300 the city

00:56:03.540 of Antioch

00:56:04.160 and he's

00:56:04.840 expecting

00:56:05.320 you know

00:56:06.100 hecatomb

00:56:06.840 of bulls

00:56:07.700 and goats

00:56:08.260 and sheep

00:56:08.840 and all

00:56:09.300 this stuff

00:56:09.880 and then

00:56:10.440 the priest

00:56:10.800 just shows

00:56:11.300 up with

00:56:11.820 a single

00:56:12.900 goose

00:56:13.400 from his

00:56:14.000 house

00:56:14.400 he says

00:56:15.160 that's all

00:56:15.580 I could

00:56:15.840 get sir

00:56:16.340 but I'm

00:56:17.340 sure that

00:56:17.620 the gods

00:56:17.980 will be

00:56:18.260 pleased

00:56:18.720 Julian

00:56:19.720 is just

00:56:20.120 disgusted

00:56:20.800 and by

00:56:22.340 the time

00:56:22.660 he leaves

00:56:22.960 Antioch

00:56:23.480 it's clear

00:56:23.900 that like

00:56:24.360 whatever

00:56:25.260 he was

00:56:25.620 doing

00:56:25.860 there

00:56:26.160 was not

00:56:26.900 going

00:56:27.120 to work

00:56:27.540 and so

00:56:28.180 he would

00:56:28.420 have had

00:56:28.640 to learn

00:56:28.940 from his

00:56:29.260 mistakes

00:56:29.740 maybe become

00:56:30.360 more popular

00:56:31.100 take the

00:56:32.900 time to

00:56:33.500 teach people

00:56:34.180 how to

00:56:34.480 sacrifice

00:56:34.900 again

00:56:35.520 so he

00:56:36.480 had a

00:56:36.860 major

00:56:37.280 uphill

00:56:37.620 battle

00:56:37.980 and I

00:56:38.520 think

00:56:38.660 this

00:56:38.840 goes

00:56:39.060 to the

00:56:39.380 fact

00:56:39.600 that

00:56:39.780 like

00:56:40.040 it's

00:56:40.560 really

00:56:40.780 hard

00:56:41.000 to

00:56:41.140 re-engineer

00:56:41.700 a

00:56:41.860 religious

00:56:42.140 revival

00:56:42.640 in a

00:56:43.480 centralized

00:56:43.840 top-down

00:56:44.680 way

00:56:45.020 you know

00:56:45.860 so there's

00:56:47.080 a lot of

00:56:47.580 lessons to be

00:56:48.080 learned there

00:56:48.500 yeah

00:56:49.340 that's really

00:56:49.780 interesting for a

00:56:50.420 couple reasons

00:56:51.100 I mean one

00:56:51.940 obviously I am

00:56:53.440 myself a

00:56:53.900 Christian and

00:56:54.500 so therefore I

00:56:55.240 believe you

00:56:55.820 know his

00:56:56.180 attempt to

00:56:56.820 rebuild the

00:56:57.380 temple was

00:56:57.780 defeated by

00:56:58.380 the power

00:56:58.880 of Christ

00:57:00.420 but I also

00:57:01.060 think that

00:57:02.300 you know

00:57:02.580 there's a lot

00:57:03.160 of stories

00:57:03.940 about after

00:57:05.700 the death

00:57:06.440 of Christ

00:57:07.000 different

00:57:08.920 aspects of

00:57:10.180 pagan religions

00:57:10.900 not working

00:57:11.820 you know

00:57:12.220 the Oracle

00:57:12.740 of Delphi

00:57:13.540 saying yeah

00:57:14.460 the veil is

00:57:15.200 closed and

00:57:16.340 these kind of

00:57:16.880 things and

00:57:17.860 so in many

00:57:18.920 ways I

00:57:19.340 wonder you

00:57:20.100 know if

00:57:20.500 the attempts

00:57:21.120 were always

00:57:21.640 doomed because

00:57:22.160 simply those

00:57:22.900 priests could

00:57:23.400 no longer

00:57:23.800 reach out

00:57:24.260 to those

00:57:24.920 obviously this

00:57:25.740 goes beyond

00:57:26.140 your historical

00:57:26.820 expertise but

00:57:27.960 just you know

00:57:28.660 my thoughts

00:57:29.220 are you know

00:57:29.920 this this is

00:57:30.640 something that

00:57:31.480 is no longer

00:57:32.080 accessible this

00:57:33.240 this spiritual

00:57:33.880 realm is no

00:57:34.520 longer accessible

00:57:35.020 in this way

00:57:35.780 because of the

00:57:37.140 the definitive

00:57:37.800 difference that

00:57:38.860 Christ has made

00:57:39.720 in kind of

00:57:40.980 the you know

00:57:41.720 the the

00:57:42.100 spiritual realm

00:57:42.840 and the

00:57:43.580 ability of

00:57:44.420 people to

00:57:45.160 access it

00:57:45.800 in manners by

00:57:46.540 which they

00:57:46.880 could do that

00:57:47.560 but it's

00:57:48.440 also very

00:57:48.880 interesting that

00:57:49.540 this this

00:57:50.820 attempt to

00:57:51.680 top-down

00:57:52.060 engineer is

00:57:53.320 less successful

00:57:54.020 again you

00:57:54.580 know elite

00:57:55.380 theory big

00:57:56.140 big big fan

00:57:56.860 of the idea

00:57:57.240 that elites

00:57:57.740 can do a

00:57:58.960 lot but the

00:57:59.640 idea that because

00:58:00.660 he only spoke

00:58:01.940 to certain

00:58:02.900 segments of

00:58:03.460 Roman society

00:58:04.100 he was never

00:58:04.680 able to really

00:58:05.760 capture the

00:58:06.320 popular imagination

00:58:07.200 even though he

00:58:08.480 would made a

00:58:09.240 compelling case to

00:58:10.440 certain aspects

00:58:11.180 of his ruling

00:58:12.040 class ultimately

00:58:13.260 he lost in the

00:58:14.860 long term and

00:58:15.700 again maybe it

00:58:16.300 was just time

00:58:16.920 but I think

00:58:17.860 there is

00:58:18.340 something important

00:58:19.700 to recognize

00:58:20.280 there is that

00:58:21.100 while elites

00:58:21.920 can make a

00:58:22.780 huge difference

00:58:23.380 and guide

00:58:23.960 things I mean

00:58:24.500 no one is

00:58:24.880 going to say

00:58:25.220 that Constantine

00:58:26.260 adopting you

00:58:27.440 know Christianity

00:58:28.360 at least to some

00:58:29.220 extent did not

00:58:29.880 have a huge

00:58:30.780 impact on its

00:58:31.460 success ultimately

00:58:32.800 that is not

00:58:33.620 sufficient right

00:58:34.560 it may be

00:58:34.920 necessary but

00:58:35.920 it is not

00:58:36.240 sufficient to

00:58:36.900 secure kind

00:58:38.240 of that that

00:58:38.820 cultural change

00:58:39.920 at least in a

00:58:40.840 short amount of

00:58:41.280 time yeah I

00:58:43.300 I'm inclined to

00:58:44.620 see the hand of

00:58:45.460 Providence in

00:58:45.960 this too as a

00:58:46.620 Christian but

00:58:47.780 you know it's

00:58:48.420 interesting to

00:58:48.920 think like like

00:58:49.800 the Christians at

00:58:50.800 that time to

00:58:52.400 the great chagrin

00:58:53.960 of a lot of

00:58:54.600 bishops you know

00:58:55.920 the Christians are

00:58:57.020 actually pretty fun

00:58:57.920 like they're they

00:58:59.860 have you know

00:59:01.360 feast days for

00:59:02.340 saints and

00:59:03.060 martyrs and

00:59:04.280 you know events

00:59:05.540 in the life of

00:59:06.040 Christ there are

00:59:07.220 riotous

00:59:07.800 celebrations the

00:59:09.220 city shuts down

00:59:10.360 you know people

00:59:11.640 are getting drunk

00:59:12.480 and playing

00:59:13.400 around and you

00:59:15.480 know the

00:59:15.840 Christians kind

00:59:16.480 of were starting

00:59:17.780 to win at the

00:59:18.340 cool game and

00:59:19.840 I think that this

00:59:20.600 is an important

00:59:21.060 lesson for the

00:59:21.700 right you know

00:59:22.440 Julian was not

00:59:25.040 cool like he was

00:59:26.260 not fun to be

00:59:27.040 around he wasn't

00:59:27.740 he didn't have

00:59:28.280 that like if you

00:59:29.480 want to usher in

00:59:30.560 a religious revival

00:59:31.560 you want to

00:59:32.680 preserve as long

00:59:33.300 as possible that

00:59:34.100 kind of cutting

00:59:34.760 edge of avant

00:59:35.540 garde which I

00:59:37.480 think tends to

00:59:38.560 be harmonious with

00:59:39.540 like living a

00:59:40.480 fun life at

00:59:42.040 least in certain

00:59:43.020 sections and

00:59:44.020 and Julian was

00:59:44.880 just too much

00:59:46.480 of a kind of

00:59:47.020 browbeater and

00:59:48.820 and aesthetic to

00:59:50.420 really harness that

00:59:51.440 that popular

00:59:52.180 energy and the

00:59:53.660 kind of paganism

00:59:54.400 that he wanted to

00:59:54.980 bring back was

00:59:55.840 very dour and

00:59:57.340 philosophical and

00:59:58.380 you know elite

00:59:59.080 without having

01:00:00.420 that that

01:00:02.200 openness to the

01:00:03.460 kind of wild

01:00:04.460 weirdness of

01:00:05.420 popular cult and

01:00:06.800 kind of the

01:00:07.560 the dissipation

01:00:08.420 like bishops

01:00:09.160 sort of didn't

01:00:10.180 like this they

01:00:10.800 preached against

01:00:11.420 it in their

01:00:11.760 homilies but

01:00:12.480 they also knew

01:00:13.100 that you got to

01:00:13.960 kind of like let

01:00:14.960 the let the

01:00:16.360 vent open now

01:00:18.280 and then and

01:00:19.740 let people have

01:00:20.780 their fun so I

01:00:22.300 think there was a

01:00:22.740 lot of there's a

01:00:23.600 lot of kind of

01:00:23.920 collective organic

01:00:25.020 wisdom that you

01:00:26.080 could see in the

01:00:26.520 way that Christian

01:00:27.000 culture had

01:00:27.560 developed over

01:00:28.320 certainly decades

01:00:30.480 probably centuries

01:00:31.640 with an openness

01:00:32.860 to you know the

01:00:34.700 whole of human

01:00:35.740 life and and he

01:00:37.080 had this very

01:00:37.640 bookish view of

01:00:38.920 what he was

01:00:39.360 trying to do and

01:00:40.780 he wasn't really

01:00:41.240 looking at the

01:00:41.820 kind of organic

01:00:42.480 patterns and

01:00:43.440 and thinking about

01:00:44.020 the big political

01:00:44.760 picture that that

01:00:45.760 you need you need

01:00:46.400 to think about if

01:00:47.020 you really want to

01:00:47.660 engineer cultural

01:00:48.680 change you have to

01:00:50.020 think about the

01:00:50.420 whole big picture

01:00:51.880 of like how a

01:00:52.860 society adopts things

01:00:53.980 in general and

01:00:55.320 you know he was

01:00:56.560 only one guy and

01:00:57.440 he hadn't had a

01:00:57.980 whole lot of time

01:00:58.680 to study he's like

01:00:59.700 he's like 30

01:01:01.360 something when he

01:01:02.220 comes to power so

01:01:03.140 he's a young guy

01:01:03.980 you know at that

01:01:04.900 time when young men

01:01:05.940 tend to be really

01:01:06.680 ascetical to the

01:01:07.080 right like he

01:01:08.480 probably could have

01:01:09.120 mellowed out as

01:01:09.820 he got older but

01:01:10.720 you know unfortunately

01:01:11.900 a Sasanian arrow

01:01:13.400 cut that short

01:01:14.120 yeah I think

01:01:15.560 there's a really

01:01:16.460 important lesson

01:01:17.340 there because there

01:01:18.460 are a lot of

01:01:19.740 people myself

01:01:20.840 included who of

01:01:21.680 course would like

01:01:22.200 to see a

01:01:23.200 Christian revival

01:01:24.000 publicly in both

01:01:26.500 our government and

01:01:27.300 just our culture

01:01:28.060 but a lot of

01:01:29.300 people treat this

01:01:30.180 as like well we

01:01:31.300 get power and

01:01:32.040 then we frog march

01:01:33.060 you into you

01:01:35.120 know the new

01:01:35.920 neo-puritanism

01:01:37.120 and actually

01:01:38.180 that's like the

01:01:38.840 worst way you

01:01:40.260 know if we look

01:01:40.760 at Julian here

01:01:41.560 it's kind of a

01:01:42.680 lesson and actually

01:01:43.400 that doesn't work

01:01:44.540 like that that

01:01:45.200 lack of finesse

01:01:47.000 that lack of

01:01:47.680 understanding the

01:01:49.180 cultural zeitgeist

01:01:50.260 that inability to

01:01:51.860 stay focused on the

01:01:53.080 things that are

01:01:53.560 positive and allow

01:01:54.820 the religion to

01:01:56.440 flourish what

01:01:57.180 actually attracts

01:01:58.020 it instead pushing

01:01:59.380 the dower pushing

01:02:00.440 the moral conformity

01:02:01.660 you know not that

01:02:02.560 these things don't

01:02:03.380 come not that you're

01:02:04.320 not saying well once

01:02:05.360 we are a Christian

01:02:06.120 nation again then

01:02:07.440 these things will

01:02:08.840 be you know people

01:02:09.460 will behave more

01:02:10.220 in line with these

01:02:10.900 things but it is

01:02:12.000 the it is the

01:02:13.100 avant-garde aspect

01:02:14.440 it is the you

01:02:16.020 know that it is

01:02:17.400 popular that it is

01:02:18.380 trendy that it has

01:02:20.200 this kind of cultural

01:02:22.420 cachet is what drives

01:02:24.100 so much and if you

01:02:25.620 prioritize like no

01:02:27.220 we need to get

01:02:27.900 these 10 things into

01:02:29.380 legislation as

01:02:30.060 passed as possible

01:02:30.900 to make sure that no

01:02:31.980 one ever does them

01:02:32.640 again like that is

01:02:33.920 much more likely to

01:02:35.340 kill any revival of

01:02:37.240 the religion you are

01:02:38.000 trying to elevate

01:02:39.940 rather than bring it

01:02:41.260 into kind of a wider

01:02:43.080 cultural agreement

01:02:44.120 yeah it's really hard

01:02:45.860 to legislate morality

01:02:46.820 I'm not saying that

01:02:47.960 you know laws don't

01:02:48.980 affect morality

01:02:49.700 but you know when

01:02:51.560 Julian tried a lot of

01:02:52.520 this stuff I mean

01:02:53.020 especially in an empire

01:02:54.400 like where you don't

01:02:55.200 have a centralized you

01:02:56.560 know total state

01:02:57.460 to enforce this stuff

01:02:59.300 it wasn't likely to

01:03:00.740 work but I think

01:03:02.000 and one of the one of

01:03:03.040 the big lessons I

01:03:04.100 think from Julian is

01:03:05.640 you know this thing

01:03:06.640 that we've just kept

01:03:07.260 saying the importance

01:03:08.200 of staying in power

01:03:09.180 for longer so that at

01:03:10.260 least you can have

01:03:11.340 time to have trial and

01:03:12.480 error and see what

01:03:13.540 works and what doesn't

01:03:14.480 and change your

01:03:15.040 strategy and I think

01:03:17.180 that's a lesson that

01:03:17.740 we can take today like

01:03:18.640 you can't emphasize

01:03:20.060 how long cultural

01:03:22.600 change takes to

01:03:23.560 happen right it's a

01:03:24.460 generational thing it

01:03:25.680 takes percolating

01:03:26.840 through you know

01:03:28.100 education system the

01:03:29.200 whole you know span

01:03:30.720 of a child becoming

01:03:32.560 a man and you need

01:03:34.380 to you need to have

01:03:36.500 time for that to sink

01:03:38.420 in to be consistent

01:03:39.340 and to not have it

01:03:40.360 be undermined and

01:03:42.120 Julian didn't have

01:03:43.320 that but I think we

01:03:44.120 have a shot today

01:03:44.900 as Curtis Yarvin

01:03:46.580 points out that you

01:03:47.780 should your moves

01:03:48.820 your exercises of

01:03:49.800 power should gain you

01:03:51.020 more power and once

01:03:52.260 you have stable power

01:03:53.120 then you can do what

01:03:54.220 you want but but

01:03:55.420 your that has to be

01:03:56.520 your first priority

01:03:57.360 if you immediately

01:03:58.440 rush out and try to

01:03:59.260 change all these

01:03:59.900 cultural factors and

01:04:01.500 lose power then it's

01:04:03.680 not going to stick

01:04:04.320 even if you were

01:04:04.960 doing good things

01:04:06.300 that you're not

01:04:06.860 going to have that

01:04:07.820 application over time

01:04:09.000 so it is important to

01:04:10.960 keep that goal in mind

01:04:12.920 all right well we are

01:04:14.400 stacking up a few

01:04:15.940 questions from the

01:04:17.200 audience here so

01:04:18.800 before we move to

01:04:19.540 the questions of the

01:04:20.360 people Alex where

01:04:21.760 should people be

01:04:22.620 looking for your work

01:04:23.920 well you can find the

01:04:25.200 cost of glory podcast

01:04:26.400 wherever you get your

01:04:27.080 podcast it's on

01:04:27.940 youtube spotify apple

01:04:29.620 podcasts and all the

01:04:30.780 other players cost of

01:04:32.440 glory dot com is my

01:04:33.400 website it's coming up

01:04:35.300 with a new version soon

01:04:36.280 I also run retreats if

01:04:37.800 you're interested in

01:04:38.520 deeping doing a deeper

01:04:40.100 dive into the ancient

01:04:41.020 art of rhetoric applied

01:04:42.520 to modern life and you

01:04:44.000 can find out more about

01:04:44.720 that on my website

01:04:45.420 cost of glory dot com

01:04:46.600 and follow me at cost

01:04:47.620 of glory on twitter too

01:04:48.680 all right so he is

01:04:50.160 Alex petcast make sure

01:04:51.640 that you are checking

01:04:52.400 out cost of glory and

01:04:53.880 his other work all

01:04:56.100 right let's go to the

01:04:57.160 questions of the people

01:04:57.840 here real quick Jeff

01:04:59.460 says low but maxing

01:05:01.700 background topped with

01:05:02.920 the MAGA hat is a

01:05:03.960 strong look yeah we try

01:05:05.340 to not just bring the

01:05:06.120 politics here we try to

01:05:08.100 bring some other

01:05:09.480 history some other

01:05:10.660 thought-provoking stuff

01:05:12.480 as well but of course

01:05:13.440 got to have your MAGA

01:05:14.340 hat one of the best

01:05:15.900 birthday presents I've

01:05:16.840 ever gotten very nice

01:05:18.660 let's see here it says

01:05:23.040 phosphorus Alex have

01:05:24.580 you read Edward J

01:05:25.660 Watts' book the final

01:05:26.700 pagan generation if so

01:05:28.260 what are your thoughts

01:05:29.100 Ed Watts is a good

01:05:30.980 friend I used to teach

01:05:31.940 with him at UC San

01:05:32.820 Diego his books are

01:05:33.820 excellent that that's a

01:05:35.420 great book talks about

01:05:36.540 Libanius and Themistius

01:05:38.720 and a lot of the the

01:05:39.840 pagans of that time and

01:05:41.940 how they're they're

01:05:42.460 viewing change that's a

01:05:44.220 great book I could

01:05:46.400 recommend basically all of

01:05:47.480 Ed Watts' books he's a

01:05:49.020 great clear writer and he

01:05:50.340 gives you the sources and

01:05:51.680 he's very intelligible so

01:05:53.060 yeah check out his work

01:05:54.180 for sure

01:05:54.920 Lippler says I wish

01:05:57.300 certain evangelicals would

01:05:59.240 realize God isn't going

01:06:00.180 to let them rebuild a

01:06:01.500 defunct temple in the

01:06:02.740 holy land yeah something to

01:06:04.300 think about are you

01:06:05.480 inadvertently on team

01:06:06.640 Julian and if so why

01:06:08.520 probably probably something

01:06:10.780 to consider as you think

01:06:12.380 about your geopolitical

01:06:13.540 support there all right

01:06:16.600 well we're going to go

01:06:17.440 ahead and wrap this up

01:06:18.700 want to thank everybody

01:06:19.580 for watching again Alex

01:06:21.280 has been a great guest so

01:06:22.700 make sure that you are

01:06:23.860 checking out all of his

01:06:25.000 work if it's your first

01:06:25.860 time on this YouTube

01:06:27.880 channel please make sure

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The Auron MacIntyre Show - November 13, 2024

Julian the Apostate： Can Old Religions Be Revived？｜ Guest： Alex Petkas ｜ 11⧸13⧸24

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