Patrick Casey, host of Restoring Order, joins Oren to discuss the latest gaffe-filled day in the Democratic primary, including Joe Biden's comments about Trump supporters. Plus, Oren talks about why he thinks the establishment is out to get Donald Trump.
00:11:16.200And in fact, several major newspapers, including The Washington Post, have refused to do an endorsement.
00:11:21.380And these are endorsements that, of course, most people assumed would be for Harris.
00:11:25.200These are legacy papers that are very liberal.
00:11:27.900They almost always support the Democratic candidate.
00:11:29.860And even though she had a lot of problems, I think the Harris campaign was expecting to have all of these nominations,
00:11:35.120or rather all of these recommendations kind of falling one after another, saying, oh, look, all these established, respectable publications are standing for us and not for Trump because he's dangerous, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:12:03.360That I don't want to signify, I don't think it signals necessarily a huge vibe shift.
00:12:10.040Everyone's done with wokeness or whatever else.
00:12:12.980Obviously, the people running, you know, the federal bureaucracy, the people that have a lot of power.
00:12:18.760And still, most of the media are, they don't like Trump and they're against everything he's about, of course.
00:12:26.240Now, the thing to keep in mind is I think that it's just a testament to how weak Kamala Harris is.
00:12:30.960I think she, Washington Post might be an interesting outlier there.
00:12:35.720I think a lot of tech CEOs have kind of concluded that, you know, even regardless of what they believe personally,
00:12:40.420things are just going to be easier for them if they're, if a Republican or at the very least not this kind of more extreme form of Democrat is in office.
00:12:48.900Why is that? Well, I'm sure as anyone who's familiar with your work is already aware of the fact, you know, the work of James Burnham as well.
00:13:13.620But the idea that there would be increasing state influence and control over industry, which would entail a class of managers or bureaucrats, you know, clashing with and vying for power against, you know, kind of the old Monopoly man style of, you know, type of type of guy, which Jeff Bezos absolutely is.
00:13:32.600So there's definitely that. But just in general, I think a lot of these newspapers and, you know, others have, they don't think that Kamala Harris is going to win.
00:13:39.940So they're just going to think like, you know, are we, whatever the next four years looks like, do we want to be, we want to be, we want to appear as neutral.
00:13:49.540I think if Kamala Harris was stronger, maybe with the exception of the Washington Post, but most of these publications would still be, you know, siding publicly with a Democratic nominee.
00:14:00.320Yeah, I think that some of them will do it to try to look more neutral and will try to ingratiate themselves and what's going to be the order for the next few years.
00:14:09.980Some of them are doing it because they simply need to retain some level of credibility.
00:14:14.580You know, how many times are you really going to go to a bat for a woman who's obviously just a disaster?
00:14:19.880You know, if you already know she's going to fail, are you really going to just dive onto that grenade or is it just better to count your loss and move on?
00:14:27.980Like you said, most of them still hate Trump.
00:14:30.260Like they're still planning to spend the next four years screaming about, you know, fascism is right around the corner and all these things.
00:14:35.480I don't think you'll, you'll see less of that rhetoric necessarily.
00:14:38.400As you, as you pointed out, I don't think the woke is going anywhere, but, but, you know, perhaps saving a little bit of that rhetorical energy, not for a candidate who is obviously just not up to snuff.
00:14:49.440Now, your Bezos point is particularly interesting because, as you say, Burnham and Francis both point to the fact that you're going to have this clash between the managerial elite and the classic capitalist class.
00:15:02.420And it's really the tech bros, as you pointed out, the CEOs there that have differentiated themselves.
00:15:08.520Because while many other capitalists, you know, have kind of rolled themselves into the managerial system, recognizing that most of their benefits going to come from scaling up with the government and creating these public private partnerships.
00:15:21.160And all of a sudden both parties love so much, but it's the tech bros that really understand that the government is ultimately just crippling their ability to advance things, that the managerialism is hindering their organizations and not helping.
00:15:34.200And the longer they end up in this, you know, incestuous marriage with the managerial class, the more that their ability to reach the heights they want to and innovate they want to is really going to fail.
00:15:45.760And so someone like Jeff Bezos, who, you know, might have had certain politics, I think it is a little funny that, you know, his wife, his ex-wife donated all this money to super left-wing causes and then he kind of pulled the rug out from under.
00:15:58.200That might have a red-pilling effect, absolutely.
00:16:00.580Right. Yeah. But ultimately it is very interesting, that dynamic, that guys like Elon, you know, David Sachs, you know, Marc Andreessen, all of these guys are recognizing that even though they're not classic, you know, conservatives, they're probably not socially conservative in most ways.
00:16:16.120I mean, Elon's got like 11 kids by several different women, you know, that ultimately, yeah, it's a return to Harem.
00:16:22.920But ultimately they understand that they're just not going to achieve the things that they want to achieve if they continue to allow this managerialism to creep into their organizations.
00:16:32.820Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, every part of the private sector, I'm sure, has to contend with regulations and whatever else.
00:16:41.120But for the tech industry, I think it's probably particularly egregious just with regard.
00:16:47.880I mean, Mark Zuckerberg is another example. He hired the Republican strategist.
00:16:52.260He's describing himself in private as a libertarian.
00:16:55.240He publicly, you know, lamented the fact that he was somewhat of a small mea culpa.
00:17:00.600He says that he said that he wishes that he hadn't gone along with the government to censor.
00:17:06.020So kind of shifting the blame, saying, I did it, but, you know, they're the main drivers, which actually isn't entirely wrong because a lot of censorship.
00:17:13.520This has been one of one of the real revelations from the last few years with the Twitter files and all sorts of, you know, the stuff Mike Benz is doing.
00:17:20.920Great work over at Foundation for Freedom Online, I think it is.
00:17:25.580With just seeing how much censorship actually does stem from the government.
00:17:29.780A lot of their woke employees and Facebook and, you know, YouTube and whatever else.
00:17:35.460But that's that's not the reason a lot of this stuff happens.
00:17:37.860So it's understandable that, you know, someone like Mark Zuckerberg and these others would think like, I would rather just just not have the government involved in my business, even if these guys.
00:17:47.480Yeah, some of them are. I don't think Mark Zuckerberg's super right wing.
00:17:51.080Maybe he is. I don't know. But yeah, within that class, there absolutely does seem to be a shift.
00:17:56.880And I think it's generally a good thing. I mean, I think we should be never should remain uncritical of people who want to lend their support.
00:18:05.220I mean, I've criticized some things Elon Musk has said he still is pretty pro legal immigration, which appears to be the big the big difficulty.
00:18:13.400The issue that a lot of these guys have difficulty with, just because I understand the tech industry is about scooping the talent intent out of various impoverished war torn nations around the world and bringing them here.
00:18:23.680But I think it's generally a positive sign because, hey, one of the old NRX talking points that I remember, you know, when I started reading this stuff back in 2016 was, you know, you need elites.
00:18:32.720Right. It's good to have, you know, a mom and, you know, grandma and grandpa on your side.
00:18:37.280Sure. But like you're going to need people who've got tons of money and that's going to come with pros and cons.
00:18:41.760But at the end of the day, you just can't do it without without powerful people.
00:18:44.740So, yeah, there has been a little bit of, you know, crying and whining about these money elites moving, shifting their alliances.
00:18:52.860And I understand the skepticism. You should absolutely be wary, especially as you point out, when guys like Elon have priorities like wide open legal immigration that could still have deleterious impacts on native born Americans here in the United States.
00:19:08.460But ultimately, the question is, like, what did you think this would look like? Right.
00:19:11.920Did you think every one of these guys would suddenly have your personal ideological shortlist, you know, loaded up and they just immediately start spouting at the minute they join your team?
00:19:21.180Like, no, they're going to move because they see some kind of advantage.
00:19:24.620They're going to see the winds of power shifting. That's going to bring a certain level of gravitas to your side, to the people who you are influencing.
00:19:32.700But ultimately, you still have to work inside the realities of politics.
00:19:36.500And it's just a little short sighted, I think, for people to say, oh, well, because Elon or somebody doesn't immediately spout everything I believe, therefore, we're just not winning.
00:19:45.820We can't ever win. You know, nothing ever happens.
00:19:47.980You know, these kind of things are kind of the way that a lot of people approach this.
00:19:51.700Yeah. I saw people pointing out that Elon Musk was wearing some kind of like befomit or devil costume for Halloween a few years ago.
00:19:59.600And they were like, look, you thought this guy was on your side.
00:20:02.080OK, well, that was for Halloween. He dressed up as like he had like a demon thing or whatever.
00:20:06.620And I understand if they're traditional Christians who like wouldn't want to be dressing like that or whatever.
00:20:10.760But it's like, OK, well, it's certain a certain point we have to you have to not bite the hand that feeds you.
00:20:15.780I mean, look, if you look at everything, Elon Musk is a great example. Right.
00:20:18.860You know, someone like Jeff Bezos, it remains to be seen.
00:20:21.220I like I like what he did recently, but it remains to be seen.
00:20:23.860Like, is he really on our side? But Elon Musk with buying Twitter, paying us to use Twitter, which, you know, reinstating people like me, all sorts of people has been huge.
00:20:34.380That's like a huge thing we have going for us this time around that we didn't back in 2020.
00:20:39.9002016 was a little freer on Twitter than in 2020.
00:20:43.540But I mean, I mean, incredible stuff and also just what he's doing in Pennsylvania, paying people in a legal way, mind you.
00:20:50.840But I do think it's very interesting with Elon.
00:20:53.580I think eventually these elites are going to come to realize that you can't go fishing at the Rubicon.
00:20:58.680I think that's kind of what Elon has recognized.
00:21:00.720And that's so to speak that if you're going to be a half-assed revolutionary, counter-revolutionary, if you're if you're in a part of my language.
00:21:06.760But if you're if you can't do some things you can't do halfway because you suffer the consequences of having, you know, entail that are entailed by doing this thing.
00:22:47.060Now, Jeff Bezos, speaking of kind of NRX predictions, Jeff Bezos is an interesting specific case because Curtis Yarvin has actually called out, you know, he said, well, here's how the Washington Post works.
00:22:58.480You know, they tell Jeff Bezos gets to sponsor them and then they print whatever they want.
00:23:04.720Now, obviously, there's been a shift in the actual endorsement.
00:23:09.680And there was a, you know, there's a large amount of their readers that actually ended up, you know, I think it's at least, you know, like 200,000, I think it's that, which doesn't even sound like does Washington Post even have that readership at this point?
00:23:21.280Anyway, the point being is that a large percentage of their people actually ended up walking away from paper because of this.
00:23:28.800Now, the other rumor has been that he is wanting to shift the editorial direction of the paper.
00:24:51.840And I think that there are a lot of people that are especially wealthy, successful people that are primarily motivated by self-interest.
00:24:59.080But it's a good thing if these people are still, you know, shifting over in your direction if for no other reason than because you have to.
00:25:07.780That's like rule number one of persuasion.
00:25:09.240You have to appeal to someone's self-interest.
00:25:10.620And if like this thing, like the right is capable of doing that, that's a good thing.
00:25:14.980One thing I wanted to mention that's kind of funny, too, is you talked about Yarvin's take on Jeff Bezos.
00:25:19.780People should be aware that Jeff Bezos knows who Yarvin is.
00:25:23.320I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised, honestly, but there was that Vanity Fair piece that was profiling what they referred to as the new right.
00:25:31.220There have been, you know, 10 new rights.
00:25:33.060I don't I don't know if we would refer to, you know, the broader space as the new right.
00:25:36.320But but he was referring to like Yarvin and like Nat Khan and Peter Thiel and whatever else.
00:25:42.860Jeff Bezos actually tweeted out that article.
00:25:44.540He's like, this was a really interesting read.
00:25:47.460At the very least, he's going to be someone interesting to watch.
00:25:49.980I'd like to think that somewhere Jeff Bezos is just, you know, binging a bunch of Paul Gottfried speeches from NatCon or something, you know, that's a good thing.
00:25:59.000Yeah, or in that or in McIntyre speech from from NatCon.
00:26:05.440But, you know, the other reason that I had you on is you just wrote a good piece for Chronicles speaking of Paul Gottfried.
00:26:11.180Right. And in that piece, you were discussing the importance of Trump.
00:26:15.820Now, we already touched on this a little bit, but there's still a sizable contingent of the Republican establishment that, you know, they kind of.
00:26:29.180You know, they can throw it in the background.
00:26:30.540But it's very clear that they are not a fan of the direction that Trump has taken.
00:26:35.220They had a very specific set of talking points, a very specific set of issues that were allowable frames that we were allowed to step into.
00:26:42.960And the fact that Trump constantly kind of disrupts those is a big problem for them.
00:26:48.640They're kind of hoping that he would just ride off into the sunset.
00:27:21.320I think we should, you know, push back on these things.
00:27:23.860But the fact that these were the only topics that were really dominating and things like immigration, foreign wars, protecting American jobs were just never open to the average person, even though this is what most voters really wanted to hear from the Republican Party.
00:27:39.580And I think it's really important for people to realize that a second Trump's victory really solidifies his direction as the concerns that are being met by the Republican Party that the base really want to see addressed by their leadership.
00:27:54.820I mean, these ideas had been out there for a while.
00:27:57.800And, you know, it's not just that these were fringe ideas, right?
00:28:00.840I mean, obviously, the paleo-conservatives were marginalized and maligned.
00:28:05.820And, you know, I think the people who made themselves all about representing, articulating, and expressing these ideas like immigration restriction, talking openly about the nature of race in America, right?
00:28:18.420Obviously not in an extreme way, but, you know, race, communism, and, you know, affirmative action, things of that nature, group differences.
00:28:24.600The people who, like, really made it their thing talking about these issues have been and to some extent still are marginalized for doing so.
00:28:34.760A lot of people have wanted immigration restriction.
00:28:36.700If you look at Gallup has been keeping track of what America, what Americans think of immigration for decades now.
00:28:44.720And for many decades, I can't recall off the top of my head just how many, but at least going back through the 20th century.
00:28:51.900And the most popular for almost the entire time that it has been measuring Americans' opinions on immigration, the most popular response has either been a plurality or a majority.
00:29:05.020It's fluctuated a bit of Americans who want less immigration, right?
00:29:09.240And there was only one time in, like, 50, 60 years where Americans wanted more immigration.
00:29:15.540And that was during the summer of Floyd, so to speak.
00:29:19.460That was the time when Americans were just bombarded with an insane amount of insane social conditioning and brainwashing.
00:29:27.960And they briefly were like, oh, yeah, diversity is great.
00:29:30.780Yeah, open the borders, bring them all in.
00:29:32.800And then they kind of snapped out of it.
00:29:34.280And that's funny because I was looking at this up recently.
00:29:36.520Tracks with how Americans viewed Black Lives Matter, white Americans, that is.
00:29:40.720Most people saying, yeah, not a big fan of it.
00:29:42.980And then for that brief period from, like, Ahmaud Arbery to, like, the first few months of George Floyd, they were like, oh, yeah, Black Lives Matter is great.
00:29:59.920And the question is, when Trump is gone, how much of these ideas, the emphasis on these ideas will be, will still be there, will remain.
00:30:10.640And I think it's safe to say that if it's the worst case scenario for keeping the flame lit, so to speak, for passing the torch, ensuring that when we enter into the post-Trump era, we are still, it's as good as based and red-pilled or even more based and red-pilled than it is now.
00:30:26.700I think it should be very clear that Trump losing is, in most cases, going to only make it harder for us to kind of keep the momentum up and keep moving things in a more right-wing direction.
00:30:44.020The very data that you're pointing to was actually the first thing that really red-pilled me before I had read Yarvin or any of these other thinkers when I was looking at the immigration crisis in Europe.
00:30:54.140And I was like, well, none of their leaders are listening to them.
00:30:56.880I wonder what the track record is for America.
00:31:00.220And then I looked at the very stats that you're talking about, and I found that over the many decades, even on the left, illegal immigration was always wildly unpopular.
00:31:09.740And even legal immigration was often wanted to be reduced on the left.
00:31:14.520And the right, obviously, was even more dramatic.
00:31:16.940It was really only over the last decade or so that we've seen a significant shift in any of those numbers.
00:31:22.340So the fact that in both parties, the Republicans and the Democrats, just completely ignored the popular will on this was my first time where I said, okay, well, maybe democracy doesn't work exactly the way I understand it.
00:31:34.260If this is an issue that both left and right have agreed on for well beyond my entire life, and yet no one on either party will actually run on this issue except maybe Pat Buchanan, then what is happening here?
00:31:47.620Right. And that really led me down the road to asking more questions.
00:31:51.460And so I think the fact that Trump has brought these issues to the floor, the things that have been so dynamic and important to people for a very long time, but have just been denied by both parties is critical.
00:32:03.000Now, I wonder, as you say, what the shift will look like, because, you know, first, obviously, Trump has to get reelected, which will be its own question.
00:32:10.840There have been several Democratic officials. There have been several papers who have encouraged this.
00:32:18.460There's been articles about this. They're already saying that they should do the thing they accused Trump of doing the whole time, which is not certify the election.
00:32:25.340You know, there have been sitting Democratic representatives and senators who have said, actually, we we can't certify this guy because we believe he's violated the 14th Amendment.
00:32:35.960And the Supreme Court did leave that process open. You know, they did leave that question somewhat open, saying it ultimately had to be determined by the legislature and not by the judicial branch.
00:32:46.840So there is still an opportunity, even if we do see a Trump win, you know, we're seeing the different stories about, oh, well, be careful, Red Mirage, you know, it'll look like he's winning at the beginning.
00:32:57.580But after we count the votes for a month and a half, eventually we'll find out it was actually Kamala Harris.
00:33:02.680Do you feel like it's going to be a push to the end where they're going to try to get her across the finish line?
00:33:08.340At first, I thought that might be the case, but it feels like the momentum and the energy just might not be there if the gap is wide enough.
00:33:14.580Can they really force her through if they don't have the votes?
00:33:21.120That's a good question. Yeah, I've I'm already seeing the beginnings of I think it is going to be kind of a messy process, regardless of who wins.
00:33:29.440Now, we understand which side has more institutional power.
00:33:33.360I think the preferred way I don't know how much you can really say on on YouTube here, but also I'll try to be mindful of my words.
00:33:40.120But I think the preferred method for blocking Trump is is the kind of funny business we saw in 2020.
00:33:47.720Stuff like that. I you know, the idea that Trump is declared winner, but they don't end up certifying him.
00:33:56.660Just it just seems like I just I find it hard to believe they would do that now.
00:34:01.460I don't know. I mean, do you see all of these clips from, you know, regime, you know, operatives?
00:34:07.740Basically, it could be in the national security state politicians where they're terrified.
00:34:11.760Right. Mark Milley, he's saying he's worried he's going to get court-martialed.
00:34:15.460You have it was a high level FBI official on, I believe, CNN or another mainstream media, you know, TV news program a few months ago was saying him and all his colleagues are terrified that Trump's going to put them in jail.
00:34:26.720Well, OK, look, if these guys broke the law, then they deserve to be in jail. Great. But not to not to put a damper on things.
00:34:32.640But, you know, we had Trump the first time around. It's I wonder if there are people working in the regime who are like, you know, we lived through four years of Trump.
00:34:40.760We probably can do four years again. But maybe I don't know. There is there there is a lot that can be done against them.
00:34:47.660I hope that he gets in and, you know, through lawful means does that. But it's really hard to say.
00:34:51.920I think I think there is a really a big question mark as to how this transition of power happens, because, look, I don't want to blackpill.
00:34:58.560I've seen people saying, well, if Trump loses, then what's even the point of doing any of this?
00:35:03.140And I understand where people are coming from. I'm not going anywhere. It's going to be really bleak for the right.
00:35:08.040Might take a few week or two off Twitter if it just doesn't go the way we want it to.
00:35:13.920But the thing is, if Trump loses, it's going to be two things, both of which are for different reasons, very damning and disturbing realities we'll have to grapple with.
00:35:28.240The first one is that America rightfully, through no funny business at all, decided that he would rather have Kamala Harris as president than Donald Trump,
00:35:37.540which I know there are people that dislike Trump. But if Trump if we if we can't win this one fair, that's rough.
00:35:43.840That's that what what elections can we win? Right.
00:35:47.800And the second one is that this just goes to show that they can they can they can manufacture the outcome that they want,
00:35:56.140we'll say, in elections regard without the pandemic being there.
00:36:00.160That's the thing. Now, some states, their election laws are similar to what they had in the pandemic.
00:36:04.860But overall, my take has always been that it was they were able to pull it off once at that at that grade of a scale because the pandemic created the cover to do so.
00:36:13.500But, yeah, I'm still going. See, I said 60 40 Trump wins. I would raise it to 80 20 right now.
00:36:19.600And, you know, if Trump ends up losing, I'm going to ask you to take this.
00:36:22.280I will pretend this didn't happen. I'll ask you to disappear this down. Yeah.
00:36:25.240But so I'm not. No, don't don't get blackpilled. But, yeah, we we we got to win this one.
00:36:31.360So everyone should get out, bring your you know, bring your family out there if you know friends who aren't registered.
00:36:36.300Well, it's probably too late in a lot of places. Just Mitch, just do whatever you can to legally ensure that everyone, you know, votes for Trump.
00:36:43.060So, yeah, the real question is, you know, where is Patrick Casey's bets place?
00:36:46.480You know, does he have does he have those poly market numbers up?
00:36:50.180But so let's assume for a moment that we get a Trump victory here.
00:36:53.920A second Trump administration. A lot of people have looked at Donald Trump.
00:36:57.840He did a lot of good things. We saw border crossings drastically reduced, but we never got a wall.
00:37:04.020You know, you know, many of the deportations that were kind of promised previously did not happen.
00:37:09.900Obviously, there's been a lot of rhetoric around, especially the mass deportation issue.
00:37:14.280Right. J.D. Vance, I think, laid out good, you know, good defense of what that looks like.
00:37:19.200It doesn't mean you have to physically move people across the border continuously all the time, though.
00:37:24.100Some of that would be necessary. But ultimately, you can go ahead and, you know, penalize employers.
00:37:30.000You can cut off welfare benefits. These kind of things are going to naturally create this.
00:37:35.040You know, we had I'm trying to remember, I think it's 60 minutes.
00:37:37.460You know, some people saying, oh, well, if some of my family gets deported, I have to go, too.
00:37:41.320And they're saying this as if it was a terrible thing.
00:37:43.300And you put out a tweet like, no, I could do this all day.
00:37:45.880Like, this is a solution to the problem.
00:37:48.240A wink of sleep. I could deport a million illegal.
00:37:50.660Yeah, that was that's what really blew up. And a lot of people were unhappy with it.
00:37:53.820But, you know, the right people, the kind of people you want to be unhappy with your with your tweets.
00:37:58.180Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot to say about the Trump at the first Trump admin's record on immigration.
00:38:04.020I think that some people try to whitewash it a little bit just because they want people voting for Trump.
00:38:10.880And I am sympathetic to that somewhat.
00:38:13.200I think Trump tried to do a lot of good stuff and he should have done it differently.
00:38:18.220He maybe should have done more. OK, that but the people who say that Trump did nothing or.
00:38:23.360Yeah, or are absolutely wrong, especially with illegal immigration.
00:38:26.560OK, Trump endorsed the Rays Act. Congress just didn't pass it.
00:38:30.320The Rays Act is not perfect, but it would have cut legal immigration in half.
00:38:33.680And going back to the tech, you know, people situation, these these are, you know, quickly becoming this this class of right wing elites.
00:38:40.560I think a good compromise that I'm you know, I don't know any of these people, but if I ever run into them, I'd love to run it by them.
00:38:47.100Is it maybe some are watching now is, you know, I understand that these guys want like smart people to come here and work in tech companies.
00:38:52.380But most people who come over here legally are like not doing that.
00:38:55.320I don't think they are. They tend to be a little bit of a higher caliber than the, you know, average Haitian just, you know, walking across the border or whatever.
00:39:04.280But I think that lowering legal immigration a lot, but ensuring that, you know, the people who do come in are very high caliber.
00:39:10.580Maybe that's that's I'd prefer an immigration moratorium.
00:39:12.960But I mean, Trump did. He did a lot of stuff. He did get a lot of money for a border wall.
00:39:19.500He had to fight for it. He had to shut down the government.
00:39:22.220And, you know, he a lot of it was replacement stuff.
00:39:25.040It wasn't the wall that we wanted, but I mean, he did build some stuff.
00:39:28.540And I think that maybe there's a case to be made that, you know, if most people are crossing over in certain areas, well, maybe there's already a wall there, but maybe you want to make it stronger.
00:39:38.460Maybe maybe that is the right way to do it. Should he have done more in that regard?
00:39:41.780Yeah, it would have been great. But, you know, the Biden administration did a lot of policies that Trump did, like remain in Mexico, some of these things.
00:39:48.980So Trump tried. He tried and he should try harder the second time around.
00:39:54.220But yeah, with the mass deportations, everything that he does, they're going to face is going to face a lot of pushback.
00:39:59.860That's that's the thing to keep in mind as well. It's going to be a battle to get this stuff done.
00:40:03.760Yeah, that's that's absolutely true. Now, the other concern and you kind of touched on it there, but I want to expand it a little bit.
00:40:09.840And I want to say from the outset that, well, Trump is an outsider and he's just a New York Democrat in most ways.
00:40:15.820He still did more for conservatives than basically any conservative president has done in my lifetime.
00:40:23.220So everything I'm saying here is with this caveat. Understand, I'm not saying, oh, well, Trump is worse than Mitt Romney or George Bush or any of these people.
00:40:32.280He's much better. But a lot of people have pointed to the fact that obviously Donald Trump is basically a New York Democrat.
00:40:39.120But he also has, you know, some some key members like Elon Musk and, you know, RFK and all of these people who are basically it's a pile of people who would say, I didn't leave the left.
00:40:50.900The left left me. Right. It's a bunch of it's a bunch of people who are a coalition of those that basically got expelled from the moderate Democratic wing.
00:41:00.280And now there seem to have taken over a large percentage of kind of what MAGA is.
00:41:06.720And so a lot of people are concerned that ultimately this is just going to basically turn his administration into the Bill Clinton kind of administration, which don't be wrong.
00:41:16.620We could do worse, sadly, at this point than Bill Clinton.
00:41:19.140But it is a definitive shift to the left on many issues, some of them social, which I think, you know, it is where I know a lot of Trump supporters are like, well, we we can never talk about those.
00:41:29.420We should just get rid of that. It's all economics. It's all immigration.
00:41:32.840I think immigration is absolutely the most important issue.
00:41:35.240But I don't think we should just discard that stuff or shift radically left on it either.
00:41:39.300What do you think about those concerns?
00:41:42.920I think a lot of this has to, you know, there is Trump not being perhaps the most socially conservative guy in his private life,
00:41:50.600aka slash public life, since a lot of this stuff has has been made public as a result of his, you know, taking him taking a stand for the country.
00:41:57.860But I in the future of social conservatism, people these days are just less socially conservative than they used to be.
00:42:05.880You know, I'm not a complete I don't want to say fuddy duddy.
00:42:09.560I'm not I'm not like I'm pretty moderate on a lot of these issues, which by today's standards is like pretty far right, I guess.
00:42:15.000But I think a lot of it is is just the right has to win votes.
00:42:19.120And there are concerns that, you know, people being too socially conservative is going to is going to lose vote.
00:42:26.400So but with regard to like once you've already gotten in.
00:42:30.980Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
00:42:33.140I think the main battles that social conservatives care about are are things that are not are it's just so egregious at this point,
00:42:41.000like a lot of like the trans trans, the child trans stuff in particular is crazy.
00:42:46.620And I think a lot of people who I don't think that's a terribly socially conservative position.
00:42:51.040Maybe these days it is. But, you know, it seems like stuff like banning gay marriage federally, banning abortion federally.
00:42:56.820I don't know how that happens at this point.
00:43:01.200Maybe there just has to be like generational procession and you get a newer, younger generation that's just tired of things.
00:43:08.040I don't know if that is Gen Z. I see a lot of the stuff.
00:43:10.760They're having less premarital sex. They're drinking less.
00:43:13.660OK, but it's also probably because they're watching porn more and like not going outside.
00:43:17.540So I would be I'd be quick to ascribe a lot of these to like Gen Z being categorically based or something.
00:43:23.500But I don't know. I think I think a good compromise is I would support a more socially conservative, of course.
00:43:29.220But I think that leaving it up to the states is probably pretty good.
00:43:32.540The country, even if we get like a based right ring regime change, it'd be really diverse.
00:43:37.460It should have never been this ethnically, religiously, you know, politically diverse, culturally diverse.
00:43:44.540Right. It's just that all of this is kind of a mistake, frankly.
00:43:48.340So but we have to we have to just contend with the fact that, sure, I guess you could deport every every person who's a liberal or every person who isn't of your European.
00:43:56.660You could I don't know, but no one's actually proposing this stuff.
00:43:58.920So I think like you could have having some states be really socially conservative.
00:44:03.320Other states less so is probably like going to be the next battle.
00:44:08.320And then, you know, after that, we'll see.
00:44:09.800So, yeah, I think J.D. Vance told a really hard truth and a lot of people, again, and I want to be clear.
00:44:17.220I think there are people for whom say abortion is, you know, one issue.
00:44:22.000You know, they are a single issue voter on that and they do passionately care about that.
00:44:26.640But unfortunately, there were a lot of people who also just use that as a cover for I still hate Trump and I would like a reason.
00:44:32.460Oh, yeah. I find find some reason, some excuse, even though, you know, I don't have another candidate to vote for to just sabotage him.
00:44:39.300You know, a lot of people did not set themselves up as serious political actors after that moment because, you know, recognizing like, yes, you always should advance the pressure on your candidate to some extent after you win.
00:44:52.500That's what the left does. That's why they're constantly moving to the left.
00:44:56.040That's why they're always winning those battles because their activists are willing to be relentless.
00:44:59.640However, you should also recognize the difference between like applying constructive pressure and then just like completely destroying your your credibility at the table.
00:45:10.780Right. Like if this guy goes out of the way and secures the victory that you have been looking for for decades upon decades upon decades and then is like, OK, well, let's do what we said we were going to do.
00:45:20.080And you're like, no, we have to be way different than what we said we were going to do.
00:45:23.680And you have to do something that makes you incredibly unpopular. Well, you should understand what you're asking.
00:45:28.200Right. Like you should know what you're doing at the negotiating table and you're basically sidelining yourself, which is a tragedy because I think those people should have an important voice at the table.
00:45:35.740But you've kind of put yourself in a scenario where why would this person listen to you?
00:45:39.680Right. Like I did this thing for you. You got this. You know, it's like everyone laughs at the libertarians when Trump sat there and said, I'll put someone in the cabinet for you.
00:45:47.540And they all booed him. Right. And everyone's like, oh, how dumb of the libertarians to do that.
00:45:52.180But then they're basically doing the same thing on this issue. And J.D. Vance gave it gave a good answer.
00:45:57.860He said, look, we we turned it over to the states. And what we found out was after many, many decades, the states had shifted their opinion.
00:46:05.080The opinion of the people had shifted. Right. And ultimately, that's what federalism does.
00:46:09.420When you return something to the states and you find out that the people of the states disagree with you, then you have a new job. Right.
00:46:15.160Like you've returned things back to the way that should be legally. Roe was a was a disaster legally.
00:46:19.700But now you have to actually have the conversation. You have to have the moral conversation.
00:46:23.700You have to have the political conversation. You need to change hearts and minds or you need to change culture.
00:46:28.300And that was you know, that was something that was very difficult for a lot of conservatives to hear.
00:46:32.280But I think it's the right approach is like, look, we got to go earn those votes. We got to go make the case.
00:46:36.640We got to, you know, change the incentives, change the structure, change, but also change, you know, kind of the moral direction.
00:46:43.280And that's going to take more than just, you know, political lectures.
00:46:46.300And that that's a much larger task. And people don't want to hear that.
00:46:50.160Yeah, you're absolutely right. If people are just not voting for it.
00:46:53.020And unfortunately, in a lot of even even red states, voters are rejecting some of these some of these anti.
00:46:58.280I mean, I think abortion is horrible. I, you know, I'm Catholic.
00:47:02.100So obviously there's like a categorical no abortion position.
00:47:04.920In some cases, I, you know, like if the mother is going to die or like rape or something, I don't know.
00:47:11.240I don't know. It's it's I hope I never have to be in a position where to make that decision.
00:47:15.760But, you know, but still, at the end of the day, you can you can find it horrific.
00:47:19.100You can dislike it, hate it for religious or secular or both reasons.
00:47:23.980But at the end of the day, politics is is about the it's the art of the possible.
00:47:28.220Right. As Bismarck said, and that's recognizing that like it or not, there are limitations on what can be done.
00:47:33.380And you can challenge those. You can try to try to, you know, open up space to do stuff like you've talked about.
00:47:38.700But until you've done that, until you get to that point, you kind of have to operate within within those parameters.
00:47:43.800And that's just where we find ourselves.
00:47:45.580So. All right, Patrick, we're stacking up some of our super chats here.
00:47:49.980So we're going to go to them in a moment.
00:47:52.020But before we do, where can people find your work?
00:47:54.700I know you had some trouble with YouTube, but I know you're still doing spaces on Twitter and writing and all those things.
00:47:58.980So sure. Yeah, I have a rumble. I haven't I haven't podcasted in a little while.
00:48:02.900I should I should probably get back to doing it, but I've just shift over.
00:48:50.620I don't know how long he can go on about corn pop and his favorite ice cream, but I'd be up.
00:48:56.040Who knows what would come out of his mouth?
00:48:58.960Elijah Tymon says, the Washington Post non endorsements suggest that a part of the total state sees Trump as a necessary evil to get young men on board with war with Iran and China.
00:49:09.360Yeah. Yeah. This is, this is kind of my buddy academic agents theory that the, the regime wants Trump that ultimately they, you know, now it might be that they've gotten close enough to where some of them are making peace.
00:49:20.400But I think this idea that they've folded Trump in because he's going to be the guy that gets middle America back into the military so they can go on these foreign warrants.
00:49:29.060I mean, it seems like Trump was pretty resistant to the entire foreign conflict thing when he was in office.
00:49:35.680That's been one of his biggest, you know, talking points.
00:49:38.520I'm a little skeptical of the fact that like all of a sudden he's going to be getting everyone from Appalachia recruited up to go charging into Iran, but maybe I'm wrong.
00:49:52.600So the super chat just disappeared, but I, I still don't remember what it's at.
00:49:55.540Thanks. Um, so I, I think people paint with too broad a brush and I think academic agent kind of does this too much.
00:50:03.060Um, it's, it's a part of the total state.
00:50:06.140I it's, it's, you have different classes.
00:50:08.080And, uh, again, we talked about, I think looking at it as, you know, there, there's the private partner, a public partnership.
00:50:14.060Sure. But, uh, understanding that these, these CEOs are, it's not too far fetched to consider that they are pondering a world in which the federal government has less control over them, you know?
00:50:25.020And there's thinking, I don't, yeah, I don't want these bureaucrats, you know, managing every little thing.
00:50:30.260I mean, they hit his, they hit Tesla with the civil rights lawsuit, um, hostile work environment and had to pay up, you know, a hundred million dollars or something a few years ago.
00:50:38.940And that's just, that's just one example.
00:50:40.240Um, so I, the idea that like the Washington post via Jeff Bezos is like really worried about trying to get you, Jeff Bezos really wants war with Iran and China.
00:50:51.620Maybe he, maybe there's a case to be made that he'd get more military contracts, but honestly, the biz, the big business wing of, of the Republican party is not really very pro war.
00:51:01.420Like the Koch brothers, whatever you could say about them, to my knowledge, I think they're like relatively anti-war.
00:51:07.200Maybe that's the only good thing you can say about them.
00:51:09.300Um, I don't think Trump is this whole idea that Trump wants to go to war with Iran is ridiculous.
00:51:15.660Um, and in fact, JD Vance, it's like people are just ignoring Trump's anti-war record.
00:51:21.040And they're also ignoring everything he said, uh, you can, Trump says he doesn't want war.
00:51:25.640He said we shouldn't be involved in regime change in Iran, even though he hates Iran.
00:51:29.740JD Vance recently said that as much as he likes Israel, it's important to understand that, um, we have different interests, uh, that, you know, you can like Israel,
00:51:38.140but also recognize that America going to war with Iran isn't in our interest.
00:51:41.780I mean, these are like, that's like a dissident, right?
00:51:44.400That's like a more sober critique of the, of the U S Israel relationship.
00:51:48.440So now the China thing is different because I, you know, I'm reading this book, a hundred, uh, the hundred year marathon about China's plans.
00:51:55.400And like, it really does look like whether or not we like it, China like wants to confront us.
00:52:00.080I think they're all, but very openly, um, developing technology.
00:52:03.700And they've, they've been talking about this for some time.
00:52:05.680So I don't, I don't want to go to war with China, but if, if they're bringing it to us, obviously want to be prepared.
00:52:10.020I, yeah, I just, I just, it's an interesting angle to consider.
00:52:12.380I just don't think it's anything to worry about in this regard.
01:13:17.480Enjoy your says Nevada Supreme court ruled that the state can count mail ballots that arrive without a postmark up to three days after the election.
01:13:26.480Yeah. I mean, obviously election integrity is going to be a huge deal.
01:13:29.480That's something that really needs to be focused on post Trump.
01:13:32.480Uh, especially when that space gets opened up at the, obviously the federal level doesn't get to dictate all of that, but it does give you a certain amount of leeway that then states can clean that up.
01:13:47.480And then, uh, Admiral snack bar says, uh, seems like Trump, uh, regretted his appointments, but even if he doesn't want more, uh, middle East deployments getting lied to, or tricked into by adversaries or that now who is not out of character recall how he, uh, he armed up.
01:14:05.480Uh, you Kurt. Yeah. So, I mean, uh, obviously the fact that Trump was lied to by his generals previously is a huge problem, right?
01:14:13.480Like the fact that Milley is worried about getting in prison is probably cause he committed treason, uh, and probably should be in jail.
01:14:19.480Um, you know, uh, Patrick can disavow if he needs to, but I think that's pretty safe, pretty safe.
01:14:24.480Uh, I support the rule of law. Yeah, that's correct. That's what restoring order is about. Exactly. Uh, that, that said, I think that's only going to make him more skittish about engaging in foreign conflicts, not less.
01:14:37.480So, yes, you're right. Like he was misled previously, some bad staffing decisions, uh, too much trust in many of these institutions. These were failings. I will fully admit to these as being failings of Trump's that he needs to change that I expect him to change. He needs to change them.
01:14:51.480That said, uh, if you're thinking that that's going to put him in mind to be more trusting of the military this time around, to be more trusting of advisors that are pushing him towards war, I think you're mistaken.
01:15:02.480I think, you know, if there's any lesson learned, it's going to be that actually these people don't have my best interests at heart. I can't trust them just because they happen to have, uh, you know, a rank on their shoulder. I need to be thinking about these engagements in a very serious way.
01:15:14.480All right, guys, well, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up. Like I said, thank you, Patrick, for coming on. It's been great speaking with you. Make sure that you're checking out his content over on Twitter and the other places that he is writing. If it's your first time on this channel, make sure that you're subscribing to the YouTube channel. You are clicking the notifications, the bell and everything. So, you know, when these streams go live, if you'd like to get these broadcasts as podcasts, make sure you subscribe to the Oren McIntyre show.
01:15:43.480Oren McIntyre show on your favorite podcast platforms. And when you do leave a rating or review, it helps with the algorithm. Make sure that you're turning it, tuning in to blaze TV on Tuesday to catch all of our coverage for the election after you've gotten out there and voted. And thanks for coming by guys. Always great talking to you.