The Auron MacIntyre Show - Letitia James and the War on VDARE ｜ Guest： James Kirkpatrick ｜ 4⧸10⧸24

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00:00:30.300 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:32.540 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:34.240 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:38.660 So Letitia James is a district attorney that is on the warpath. 1.00

00:00:42.780 She is somebody who has gone after President Trump.

00:00:46.020 She has gone after many people.

00:00:47.940 And one of the people that, or one of the groups rather,

00:00:50.900 that she has been prosecuting and persecuting is the publication, The Dare.

00:00:57.100 They've come under fire.

00:00:58.520 She's attempted to shut them down in pretty much every way possible.

00:01:02.660 And so I wanted to bring someone on to talk about what's going on,

00:01:06.480 why she feels like she can get away with this,

00:01:09.260 and why this is impacting our First Amendment rights.

00:01:13.060 So joining me today to talk about that is a longtime writer over at Bedair, James Kirkpactory.

00:01:19.160 Thanks for joining me, man.

00:01:20.400 Thanks for being, thanks for having me here, although I wish it was under better circumstances.

00:01:24.420 Yeah, obviously it's terrible what's happening.

00:01:26.780 I want to dive into all the background, like I said, why she feels like she can get away with this,

00:01:31.740 why the First Amendment doesn't seem to be holding up or protecting the right of Bedair to publish what they're doing.

00:01:38.000 And I also want to get into the history of paleoconservatism,

00:01:41.280 because I think a lot of this goes back to the fact that paleoconservatism is a strain of conservative thought

00:01:46.880 that has long been pushed out of the conservative mainstream.

00:01:50.120 And the fact that it's returning with figures like Donald Trump has kind of brought this ire upon organizations like Bedair.

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00:03:17.200 All right, guys, before we dive into the story of the battle between Letitia James and Videra,

00:03:23.340 I also want to tell you about a new documentary that's coming out.

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00:04:35.920 All right.

00:04:36.980 So, James, for people who are just unfamiliar with Vidare and the situation there, let's just start with a little bit of background.

00:04:46.360 Who is Peter Brimelow?

00:04:47.780 What is Vidare?

00:04:48.740 Where did it come from?

00:04:50.240 Well, Peter Brimelow was an editor at National Review.

00:04:52.560 He wrote a bestselling book in the 1990s called Alien Nation, which really brought the immigration issue to the forefront.

00:04:58.220 And he also wrote a cover story at National Review talking about the immigration issue.

00:05:03.480 And as I think you've pointed out on a number of other occasions, he's another one of these figures who's been mocked for correctly predicting the future.

00:05:12.300 Just about everything he predicted in this article, Time to Rethink Immigration, has essentially come true, most notably the fact that California is now a forever blue state.

00:05:21.220 However, accurately predicting the future has never really been a path to success in the conservative movement.

00:05:25.880 So he was essentially pushed out of National Review.

00:05:28.800 And that's when he started Vidare.com, named for Virginia Dare, the first English child born in the New World.

00:05:35.060 This was one of the first sites that really took advantage of the Internet.

00:05:39.600 And it's worth remembering the way people used to speak about the Internet as this, and including liberals, especially liberals, in fact, this idea that open communication and free speech,

00:05:49.240 this was all going to lead to the way democracy is truly supposed to work in a truly informed citizenry.

00:05:55.700 And for some time, it did seem to operate that way.

00:05:58.840 And Vidare had a big impact, despite essentially being frozen out by the conservative movement.

00:06:04.160 It's published a number of major writers over the years, some of whom have now broken into the mainstream or the near mainstream.

00:06:11.880 Steve Saylor, for example, his books were published by Vidare.com.

00:06:15.840 Unfortunately for Peter and for his wife, Lydia, it seems that they've triumphed.

00:06:21.800 And the price of their triumph was their professional destruction because immigration was always a tough battle within the GOP.

00:06:29.340 You have to remember, the Wall Street Journal used to advocate for a constitutional amendment that said there shall be open borders.

00:06:35.320 That was considered to be the establishment GOP position.

00:06:39.460 Now there's really nobody pushing for more immigration, at least not openly, within the GOP.

00:06:44.160 The Trump revolution really has reshaped the GOP, but that also means that they're a bigger target.

00:06:51.340 And so now Letitia James, the New York attorney general, the same one who went after the NRA, the same one who was going after President Trump,

00:06:57.920 basically put Vidare.com in the cross sites.

00:07:01.460 And now after 25 years, it looks like that's it for this online publication,

00:07:05.120 which really was an important part of not just conservative history, but Internet history.

00:07:11.060 And I think the attack on it really shows how the norm of free speech,

00:07:15.180 which I think we once considered to be fundamental to the American identity,

00:07:18.660 has been completely wiped out with very little resistance.

00:07:22.860 Yeah, it really is wild how things have changed.

00:07:25.480 Like you said, Peter Brimelow and many others, Pat Buchanan, were really out in front of this a very long time ago.

00:07:32.700 And Donald Trump's kind of picked up that banner in a very important way and shifted that conversation.

00:07:39.000 You know, I played the clip of Bernie Sanders talking about how open borders was a Koch brothers conspiracy.

00:07:46.320 And he was right about that, by the way, at the time.

00:07:49.020 100%.

00:07:49.340 And again, that's why the Wall Street Journal was campaigning for open borders for so long.

00:07:53.600 I mean, keep in mind with and this is true of everybody you just discussed.

00:07:57.520 Peter Brimelow, you know, libertarian journalist, worked with all the new Rupert Murdoch,

00:08:02.700 you know, worked with all these establishment conservative people.

00:08:05.620 Pat Buchanan was in the Reagan administration, and he was sort of the administration's liaison to the conservative groups,

00:08:10.720 famously in aid to Richard Nixon.

00:08:12.220 And then, of course, Donald Trump, who was a beloved real estate investor, TV celebrity, up until the point he started running for president and came down that escalator,

00:08:20.620 at which point all the people who had worked with him his whole life decided they hated him and that he was a racist all along.

00:08:26.220 In all of these cases, we see that the people who have achieved success within the system, it really can be taken away very quickly once you step on the wrong side of a lot of these issues.

00:08:37.680 And the biggest issue fundamentally is immigration because immigration determines everything else.

00:08:44.120 Demography is destiny, for better or worse.

00:08:46.980 And if you don't get immigration right, nothing else really matters.

00:08:50.500 And that's really been Vidaire's message since the beginning.

00:08:53.000 Yeah, this is something that I've tried to explain so often to people.

00:08:56.740 I care about a whole bunch of issues.

00:08:58.620 I'm not a single issue person.

00:09:00.620 I understand that there are many critical things that we need to be able to focus on.

00:09:04.820 But you're right that immigration is pretty much the linchpin because in a democracy, whether we like it or not, that is the reality of the kind of system that we live in. 0.70

00:09:14.800 In a democracy, you are going to have the way that your decisions are made impacted by the people who cast the votes.

00:09:22.460 And if you can fundamentally change the people who are in the country, which many people on the left and sadly even on the right seem more than happy to do, then you will change the way that they vote.

00:09:32.660 The left is not squeamish about saying this.

00:09:35.400 In fact, they brag about it all the time.

00:09:37.160 As soon as we can transform Texas, as soon as we can transform some of these other states to Latino or something else, we can switch it over. 0.97

00:09:44.880 They announce these plans on a regular basis.

00:09:46.700 They act shocked and surprised if someone notices.

00:09:50.040 It's the celebration parallax.

00:09:51.920 They're allowed to brag about it.

00:09:53.240 But if you notice and say maybe that's not a great thing, all of a sudden it's a terrible problem.

00:09:57.020 But you're absolutely right that this has shifted so dramatically over the years.

00:10:01.080 And I think that's why we're seeing the crackdowns on free speech that you're talking about.

00:10:05.460 You simply cannot let this kind of stuff come back into the popular consciousness.

00:10:10.740 You can't let people understand the kind of issues that this creates because they might realize that their country is slowly and surely being changed underneath them.

00:10:20.200 And so I wonder if you could get a little...

00:10:22.020 It's being done deliberately.

00:10:22.680 Oh, yeah.

00:10:23.840 Of course.

00:10:24.640 Of course.

00:10:25.060 And again, the left will tell you that.

00:10:27.320 There's no hesitation on that unless Tucker Carlson says it.

00:10:31.620 And then all of a sudden...

00:10:32.160 Right.

00:10:32.180 Then it's a problem.

00:10:33.340 Exactly.

00:10:34.200 So I was hoping you could go ahead and lay out, again, for people who are not familiar, what Letitia James is actually doing.

00:10:40.000 What is her excuse for trying to shut down Vidair?

00:10:43.380 What kind of leverage is she bringing legally? 1.00

00:10:45.740 And why is that making it impossible for the site to operate?

00:10:48.480 Well, to set the stage, we have to go back a couple of years and kind of shows how this whole thing works with the restriction of free speech.

00:10:57.180 Vidair.com was trying to host conferences for several years between 2016 and 2019.

00:11:01.720 And they kept booking conferences at hotels, and then the hotel would sign a contract, and then the hotel would cancel at the last minute.

00:11:10.260 Eventually, they started putting in clauses where they would have to pay a penalty if they canceled.

00:11:14.600 They would still cancel anyway, which might have been amusing a little bit, but the whole point was to actually host a conference.

00:11:20.920 And so Vidair decided that they needed to buy their own conference venue because you simply cannot have a conference for right-wing ideas in the United States of America at a private business.

00:11:31.940 You're just not – you can't get away with that.

00:11:33.760 It will be canceled.

00:11:35.120 People will call in bomb threats.

00:11:36.560 Antifa will swarm the venue.

00:11:38.240 You have to have your own thing.

00:11:39.820 So that's why they bought this castle in Berkeley Springs, West Virginia.

00:11:43.060 They got it, actually, at a remarkably cheap price because it's West Virginia.

00:11:47.580 It's a property that was having a hard time finding somebody to really look after it and give it the love it deserved, and they got a big donation one year.

00:11:55.840 So they purchased that.

00:11:56.880 They started fixing it up, and that was going to be where they host these conferences.

00:12:01.360 Now, Letitia James says it was the purchase of this castle which started her investigation.

00:12:06.460 And you might be asking yourself, well, what does the Attorney General of New York have to do with this group operating in West Virginia?

00:12:15.100 Well, in 1999, back when such things were really unimaginable, a lawyer who had passed the bar in that state set up the Vidair nonprofit.

00:12:25.220 So it was still technically operating in New York.

00:12:29.020 And that little thing, which, again, nobody would have thought of in 1999, is really what allowed everything else to be set in motion.

00:12:36.500 Now, interestingly enough, even though the whole investigation was supposedly about this deal to purchase the castle,

00:12:42.360 the very first subpoenas came from the Hate and Bias Prevention Unit from New York, which had just been set up,

00:12:49.740 which is supposed to look into hate crimes, which to me sort of gives the whole game away,

00:12:54.200 that it had nothing to do with any of the stuff that they actually say they're talking about.

00:12:58.060 It had to do with shutting this group down.

00:13:00.580 Letitia James, when she was running for office, even talked about how it was a problem

00:13:04.720 that there was so much hate being spread online and how she was going to do something about it.

00:13:09.240 Well, now we know what that looks like.

00:13:12.300 It's interesting, too, that Vidair hasn't actually been charged with anything.

00:13:16.720 You might be saying, well, what exactly is the problem here?

00:13:19.460 The problem is they keep issuing subpoenas to the group saying you need to turn over all of this information.

00:13:25.220 This included the names of all the writers, some of whom write anonymously.

00:13:29.840 This includes all of the email communications.

00:13:33.060 This includes various things about business relationships and vendors, all of which has a tendency to be leaked.

00:13:40.000 As a matter of fact, it was actually Letitia James's office that leaked a number of Nikki Haley's donors.

00:13:45.040 I suppose that was just a random accident.

00:13:47.620 But if you're working for a website where it could be the end of your career, if you're a Border Patrol agent or an insider in government writing for the site,

00:13:56.440 it's kind of a big deal if your name is going to get leaked or not.

00:14:00.380 The bigger thing, of course, is that these subpoenas are extraordinarily expensive.

00:14:04.760 Vidair is not a huge group.

00:14:06.880 Up to this point, they've spent about $800,000 just for filling all these legal requirements.

00:14:11.980 That's basically the entire yearly budget, and that's a yearly budget on a good year.

00:14:18.560 Nothing has actually been charged.

00:14:21.360 Nobody has actually filed anything.

00:14:24.000 And you may say to yourself, well, in the United States of America, the government can't just keep subpoenaing you forever until you run out of money and then shut you down.

00:14:32.660 And it's like, well, yeah, actually, that is how the government works now.

00:14:36.380 They can just subpoena you forever.

00:14:38.020 They can just keep doing that until you're out of money and then you close, and that's just how the system works now.

00:14:44.460 And that's essentially what happened at Vidair.com.

00:14:46.840 Now, they tried to fight it, of course.

00:14:48.400 At first, they did a good faith effort to meet these subpoenas, extraordinarily expensive as they were.

00:14:54.000 They repeatedly tried to meet with Letitia James and discuss the Castle deal and whatever else she wanted to know.

00:15:00.300 She refused to meet with them.

00:15:01.500 She just kept issuing more subpoenas. 0.99

00:15:02.920 They filed for relief in federal court.

00:15:05.860 The federal court booted it because in an extraordinary act, Letitia James actually refiled something in state court. 1.00

00:15:14.480 And then the federal court said, well, the state court is dealing with this, so we're not going to touch it, which by itself was pretty extraordinary.

00:15:20.800 Obviously, if you're dealing with New York state court, the people who are dealing with these cases are elected Democrats.

00:15:28.500 Now, you have to ask yourself, if you're trying to move up in the world, in the New York political system, why are you going to side with Vidair.com on anything, regardless of what the law is?

00:15:38.660 We are working in the realm of politics, and the idea that there's a separation between the law and politics, I think, is an illusion that really needs to die.

00:15:48.960 Peter has said that a lot of this is sort of like being in a nightmare, because no matter what you do, the circumstances keep changing.

00:15:55.100 Letitia James' office put forward different justifications for the information they were asking for when they filed in federal court, where they said they didn't want to know about the names of all these people, and in the state court, where they admitted that actually, yes, we do want to know the names of all these people.

00:16:09.740 In theory, that's against the law.

00:16:11.340 In theory, you're not allowed to do that.

00:16:12.960 In practice, it simply doesn't matter.

00:16:15.220 And you're also fighting against something that has unlimited resources.

00:16:18.400 Vidair.com, on the surface, is a pretty marginal group in terms of its budget, in terms of its clout within Congress, say.

00:16:29.220 It's not something that really is talked about as a power broker, and yet you see this extraordinary investment of money and time from someone who clearly has their eye on higher office.

00:16:39.580 And you have to ask yourself, why are they doing this?

00:16:42.140 Part of it may be because Vidair.com has grown in prominence as the immigration issue has become mainstream, but I think the larger issue is just because they can't. 0.99

00:16:52.680 Why wouldn't you do it?

00:16:53.960 There's no actual institutional check to prevent blue state officials from acting in this way.

00:17:00.360 And the heart of politics fundamentally is the friend-enemy distinction, something on the political right seems to have forgotten, but the political left has not.

00:17:07.900 And so if you can destroy enemies, if you can take their money, if you can just make it that little bit harder for them to get things done, why wouldn't you do that?

00:17:17.020 And we've seen it because this is the same person who went after the NRA.

00:17:20.740 And, of course, most famously, this is the same person who went after Donald Trump in a real estate case that a number of business professionals in New York City considered to be utterly horrifying because Trump was penalized for doing the sorts of things that just about every real estate professional does.

00:17:35.160 Yeah, and she's been, again, very clear about her intentions.

00:17:38.760 I'm going to punish Donald Trump and obviously-

00:17:41.320 She said this when she was running.

00:17:42.440 Right.

00:17:42.620 I mean, you have to take a step back and really, I'd like to ask your audience to just really think about this for a second.

00:17:49.420 When the chief law enforcement officer of the state says, I am running for office because I am going to destroy this political enemy and the people vote for them for that reason, what exactly is going to be the check on such behavior?

00:18:05.780 What written laws, what constitutions, what elected judges who are appointed by these same liberals or run for office as these same liberals, how exactly do you stop that?

00:18:15.240 And I think that this is something that the right needs to really come to terms with because we have this assumption that the system can sort of defend itself or that the law somehow works out.

00:18:25.760 The rule of law is a social convention.

00:18:28.180 And if one side just abandons that social convention, the rule of law itself goes away.

00:18:32.840 And I think one of the key things to keep anybody from kind of lining up behind and defending what's going on here is this Alex Jones effect.

00:18:42.820 I want to talk about that because it's very clear.

00:18:44.900 I think that Vidair is a canary in a coal mine, much in the way that Alex Jones was when it came to internet censorship.

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00:19:58.740 So you would assume that if you have a rogue attorney general going after a outlet, any outlet, right, in any place where journalism is occurring, that would be a huge issue.

00:20:13.140 If you had.

00:20:13.460 You would think.

00:20:14.460 If you had, you know, the attorney general of Florida shutting down every leftist.

00:20:19.180 It would be the end of the world.

00:20:20.280 It would be the end of the world.

00:20:20.980 Yeah, it would be absolutely insane.

00:20:23.280 And so that would be the biggest story everywhere.

00:20:25.280 Now, of course, no one here.

00:20:26.760 I'm not.

00:20:27.300 We don't need to put on airs.

00:20:28.600 None of us are surprised that the that the left are not coming to the defense of the First Amendment.

00:20:34.680 No shock there.

00:20:36.060 But you would think that the right would have learned a lesson because we saw what happened to Alex Jones.

00:20:40.580 Right.

00:20:40.760 You can feel how you like about Alex Jones and the veracity of what he says.

00:20:45.020 But obviously his cancellation, the way that multiple platforms simultaneously colluded to shut him down and shut him off and silence him was the very beginning of a large amount of Internet censorship that hit everybody.

00:20:59.900 Not just the not just the out there people, not just the people wearing tinfoil hats, not just the people saying naughty things you're not allowed to say, but even basic mainstream conservatives lost the ability to say very important things, very important truths online.

00:21:14.180 And Alex Jones was the first domino in that.

00:21:17.240 And you kind of wonder if people had gone to the woodshed for Alex Jones, would we have seen everything that we saw with the 2020 election have gone entirely differently if the right had had the courage of its convictions to stand up?

00:21:29.880 And now you look at what's happening to Vidaire.

00:21:33.060 And are you guys getting lots of support from The Wall Street Journal, Fox News, all these right?

00:21:38.300 Certainly not.

00:21:39.400 Certainly not.

00:21:40.000 Right. And what's what's remarkable about this is Peter Brimlow is not exactly a marginal character.

00:21:44.760 I mean, this is somebody who worked in the conservative movement for decades, knows everybody.

00:21:50.300 And a number of prominent people have obviously written for the site over the years.

00:21:53.900 Steve Sellers, I talked about, but John Derbyshire from the National Review and Coulter, Michelle Malkin.

00:21:59.020 I mean, you name it, we've we've had them in our pages at some point.

00:22:02.040 And I mean, I'm pretty small fry compared to most of the writers at this.

00:22:08.020 And yet you really haven't seen a lot of outlets speaking up.

00:22:10.520 I think the American conservative said something.

00:22:12.460 Revolver may have said something.

00:22:14.020 A couple of people have tweeted some stuff here and there.

00:22:16.400 But you're not really seeing the conservative movement, certainly not National Review, coming out and defending this outlet.

00:22:21.940 And I think it really when you think about like how we ended up here, it's not just, oh, you can't host a conference.

00:22:30.320 You have to consider what VDARE has been through.

00:22:32.280 And this is I don't want to say VDARE is the only group that's had to deal with this.

00:22:35.480 Just about everybody has.

00:22:36.620 They've been canceled from Constant Contact, Google AdSense, Amazon, credit card processors.

00:22:44.240 There's I mean, the cruelest blow has to be the credit card processors, which came just a couple of weeks ago when they were trying to raise money for sort of a last ditch legal defense.

00:22:52.740 And the banks were no longer willing to support.

00:22:56.140 I believe it was Gab Pro because after Stripe canceled on the after go with somebody else.

00:23:01.140 The banks were no longer able to provide such services.

00:23:03.840 And there's good reason to believe that federal regulators are the ones pressuring these banks to say, hey, you can't provide credit card processing services to these specific companies that we're looking at.

00:23:15.440 That is where we're at.

00:23:17.180 It's not just that all these private companies deny you services.

00:23:21.220 It's also that the hidden hand of the state is there making sure you are financially deplatformed.

00:23:26.140 And then if that fails, if you still some are able to operate, then they just try to shut you down directly.

00:23:31.940 And it's not just Vidaire.

00:23:34.080 It's not just Alex Jones.

00:23:35.060 It's a host of people.

00:23:36.140 And it's been going on for a very long time, really, since 2016, certainly picked up speed in 2017.

00:23:42.660 And I would call it the biggest cultural revolution of my lifetime.

00:23:45.920 Bigger than transgenderism, bigger than anything else people can point to, because even in 2015, it would have been taken absolutely for granted by just about everybody that even if you disagree with what somebody says, they have the right to say it, especially on the Internet.

00:24:00.380 You have the right to read whatever you want.

00:24:02.680 And if there's certain information you want, you have the right to find it.

00:24:05.700 Now, every single government in the West takes it absolutely for granted that they need to censor information in the name of protecting democracy.

00:24:13.200 And while the United States still protects that right legally, de facto, that right really doesn't exist anymore because they've made it just about impossible to operate.

00:24:22.100 Yeah, you can really tell that the pretense is gone.

00:24:25.280 I remember my entire life people would defend places like the ACLU saying, look, at the end of the day, they defended the right of the Klan to march, right?

00:24:33.900 Like it doesn't matter.

00:24:34.900 No matter how vile the speech is, this is the United States and you have the right to go ahead and do that.

00:24:40.400 And the organizations that are ostensibly dedicated to the protection of civil liberties are going to stand behind you no matter what.

00:24:48.260 We always understand that even if we don't agree with what someone is about to put out, it's critical that they be allowed to voice that opinion.

00:24:56.240 And people can take a look at your writing or others and decide for themselves if they feel like they agree with it.

00:25:02.160 But they have to be able to see that first, right?

00:25:04.440 Like that's the most basic right that you have is the ability to put that kind of stuff out.

00:25:09.560 And again, it's fundamental democracy because what is the justification for democracy if people can't debate ideas?

00:25:15.560 How are the people supposed to decide anything?

00:25:17.920 Again, yeah.

00:25:18.520 And you would think that the right would have learned this lesson because if they're going to come for you guys, if they're going to come at the margins like this, they're obviously not going to stop there.

00:25:26.640 It feels like the same delusion where people thought, oh, well, if we just swap like Ron DeSantis in for Trump, then they'll just treat him really nice, right?

00:25:33.660 Because the real problem is Trump.

00:25:35.520 It's like, no, the problem is they've weaponized the entire system and the constitution doesn't mean anything because everyone involved has lost the spirit of it.

00:25:43.080 And they're just looking for ways to get around and go ahead and punish their enemies anyway.

00:25:47.760 Right.

00:25:48.260 And VDR, I would say, is probably – I mean this is the irony of the whole situation.

00:25:52.540 It's less marginal now probably than it's ever been and it has less freedom to operate than it's ever had.

00:25:58.140 The issues that we talk about have gone absolutely mainstream, arguably have taken over the entire GOP, taken over the entire conservative movement.

00:26:06.280 And yet it's at this moment you get shut down and it's at this moment when the conservative movement is largely silent.

00:26:12.880 And this gets to your point about the fact that there hasn't been much pushback.

00:26:18.240 I mean one of the tragic ironies of this whole deplatforming push over the last decade or so is that if you're on the right –

00:26:26.880 If somebody to your right or somebody you perceive as being to your right gets taken out, in terms of material interest, that's probably a good thing for you. 0.71

00:26:52.220 It removes the competition.

00:26:53.700 It means greater market share.

00:26:55.000 And so there's always kind of a concrete interest in keeping silent, not saying anything, hoping that they won't come for you next.

00:27:02.940 And you certainly see this game with a lot of people on the right where they don't defend certain targets, especially if they are afraid that that will bring the eye of Sauron on them too.

00:27:11.460 But I think there's also a more cynical explanation, which is that the more people who get taken out, the more you can tell yourself that if you play it safe, you'll be able to capture the market.

00:27:20.480 That may be good if you're trying to make a living in this, but if we're trying to win, if we're trying to save the country, if we're trying to defend the kind of liberties that every other generation of Americans could have taken for granted, this isn't a way to go about doing anything.

00:27:32.460 Yeah, I agree.

00:27:33.980 And I think it's even worse than that.

00:27:35.480 I think a lot of them recognize that many of the, you know, much in the mainstream conservative movement has seen some pretty significant failures and that's become very obvious to their base.

00:27:45.500 And all of a sudden there's pressure from their right for the first time, I think, in a very long time to make changes.

00:27:51.260 And they're all very scared.

00:27:52.660 We see a lot of mainstream people panicking over the issues that are being addressed and who's addressing them.

00:27:57.880 And so I think that they recognize that they can use the pressure of the left if only by their very silence to go ahead and get rid of that threat to their voice.

00:28:07.080 And so why would they stick their neck out for the rights of people who are honestly putting kind of holding their feet to the fire and offering an alternative to what's kind of been the containment of right wing opinion in the United States when they can just kind of let the left do what they're going to do and say, oh, well, I don't want to touch this.

00:28:24.740 It's too spicy for me.

00:28:25.780 Yeah, I mean, as a lot of people have pointed out, conservatives reach out to their left and cancel to their right, whereas the left operates the opposite way.

00:28:34.020 You never see the left go after its own, quote unquote, extremes.

00:28:37.320 They understand that those people kind of paved the way for what they're trying to do later.

00:28:41.340 Certainly, if a conservative group exposed, say, somebody in the Biden administration for having been a communist, do you think anyone would care?

00:28:47.980 Do you think a single, like, quote unquote, mainstream media outlet would even run a story on it?

00:28:53.360 No, it would just stay in the right wing echo chamber.

00:28:55.760 And that's why they win.

00:28:57.360 It does lead to a difficult conversation for a lot of the people on our side.

00:29:03.100 And this is where I really want to ask the audience to take this to heart.

00:29:06.640 We really do have to have a principled defense of free speech for everyone, everyone on our side, especially, but everyone in general, especially the people we don't agree with, because the left has completely abandoned this at this point.

00:29:19.780 So this principle is still there.

00:29:22.140 And if you look at the polls, a majority of the American people still believe in it, still believe in it as a principle.

00:29:27.640 This weapon is there waiting to be picked up and we can hold it.

00:29:30.880 But that also means we have to be willing to tolerate a certain chaos.

00:29:34.980 We have to be willing to tolerate certain arguments on our side that might make us uncomfortable.

00:29:39.220 But we have to be willing to go through this because the situation for our country has grown so desperate that operating as this kind of controlled opposition really hasn't gotten us anywhere.

00:29:50.680 And I, for one, am not content to simply try to make a living within the conservative movement.

00:29:56.380 If that was my goal, I think if that was your goal, there are easier ways to make a living and there are easier ways to make money.

00:30:02.440 We're not in it for that.

00:30:03.700 We're in it to save the country.

00:30:04.820 And if we're going to save the country, we have to make sure it's worth saving.

00:30:08.660 And that means fighting for the First Amendment, not just as some abstract legal principle, but as something we can really use in the real world.

00:30:17.020 So I think, like you said, a big part of this is that Bader has seen the increase in its own relevance in the current years.

00:30:25.000 It's been fighting in these trenches for a long time, but these issues have now become central.

00:30:29.300 And like I said, I think a big part of that is the return of many paleoconservative ideas.

00:30:35.880 Now, as the name kind of probably shows most people, that's not a new thing.

00:30:40.660 Paleoconservatives have been around for a while and they've had their moments.

00:30:45.320 Obviously, again, Pat Buchanan and others have have rose have risen to prominence at certain times and had large platforms.

00:30:53.000 But it's always been something that is pushed back under in many situations.

00:30:58.400 I had I believe I read somewhere someone explained basically guys like Pat Buchanan were along for the ride with the neoconservatives back when the Soviet Union was a big deal.

00:31:09.280 Right. When Russia really was an existential threat, you really did have to worry about the way of life that was, you know, that was being threatened there. 0.77

00:31:15.900 And so they kind of went along with this as long as there was a larger enemy that had they had to kind of align themselves against.

00:31:22.940 But once this was gone and then it became clear that America was going to come up with new and different ways that it needed to invade foreign countries and invite other countries into the United States, it became clear that something else was at play.

00:31:37.160 We weren't just defeating the Soviet Union anymore.

00:31:39.600 We were launching, I think, a wider empire and that that scared many people.

00:31:44.440 Can you talk about the beginnings of some maybe some key figures in the paleoconservative space that people might be familiar with or might need to learn about?

00:31:53.140 Yeah, I mean, a lot of the paleoconservative neoconservative divide may seem like a lot of inside baseball regarding the conservative movement.

00:32:00.740 But it's important because these are the battles over jobs and positions and who gets to set the line for the American right.

00:32:08.360 And that kind of determines everything that is to follow.

00:32:11.060 There were some major battles between neoconservatives and paleoconservatives during the Reagan administration and later and the neoconservatives largely won.

00:32:18.700 And that's why American policy took the direction it did under the Bush administrations and then going forward up until now, really up until Donald Trump, there were a lot of issues like non-interventionism, trade policy, immigration.

00:32:34.420 A lot of these things that were just kind of left on the table and things that could have been done were not done.

00:32:39.360 The most famous paleoconservative is, of course, Pat Buchanan, who was the conservative true believer, both under Nixon and then in the Reagan administration.

00:32:49.920 And when he ran in 1992 and then in 1996, he experienced extraordinary attack from the conservative movement, especially National Review, William F. Buckley.

00:33:01.060 A lot of people perceived this as a major betrayal because Buchanan was the guy for keeping Reagan on the straight and narrow and also keeping Bush one on the straight and narrow.

00:33:12.000 And yet they stabbed him in the back as soon as they got the chance.

00:33:15.420 When Trump won, Buchanan said something along the lines of I believe it was in Politico.

00:33:19.980 The ideas made it, but I didn't.

00:33:22.260 And it's unfortunate because so many of the problems that we're dealing with now, Pat Buchanan had talked about in 1992 and 1996.

00:33:28.480 And if the conservative movement had come around then, we just simply wouldn't be dealing with a lot of these problems right now.

00:33:34.940 There would be no immigration issue, for example.

00:33:37.580 Some of the other figures who have been popular, of course, are people like Paul Gottfried, Peter Brummel himself, of course, but also Russell Kirk, who if you've ever worked in the conservative movement, you'll know is the author of The Conservative Mind.

00:33:54.760 That was kind of like the standard intellectual conservative text.

00:33:57.720 Well, people don't realize that he was basically thrown out of the conservative movement for supporting Buchanan, along with people like Sam Francis and the libertarian Murray Rothbard.

00:34:09.720 He was one of the people who was sort of the brain trust around Buchanan's first run.

00:34:14.140 And one of the things that the metaphors that people have used when discussing the whole neoconservative, paleoconservative tension is that the neoconservatives were kind of the Johnny-come-latelys to the conservative movement.

00:34:27.700 Most of them were liberals.

00:34:28.700 And when the civil rights movement became sort of the Black Power movement later on in the late 60s and early 70s, that's when they sort of broke with the left.

00:34:38.240 But they were still fundamentally liberals.

00:34:41.500 They were just liberals who liked using military force against the Soviet Union.

00:34:45.520 And they were sort of welcomed into the conservative movement, but they were never really part of the group.

00:34:52.480 They never really aligned with everybody else.

00:34:54.580 And they were never really part of the grassroots.

00:34:56.500 And as one person said, it might have been Kirk himself, you know, everybody rejoices when a prostitute sees the error of her ways and comes to church. 0.94

00:35:05.140 But that doesn't mean you want her speaking from the pulpit.

00:35:07.560 And that's essentially what's happened, where you had the conservative movement hijacked by people who were never really part of it and who not only took the movement in a direction that was highly unfortunate, but started kicking out the people who had actually built the thing.

00:35:23.820 I would actually consider one of the people who I had the honor to know at the end of her life and was a big supporter of Trump in 2016, somebody who I think is the most effective grassroots conservative of all time.

00:35:35.000 But I would definitely call it paleoconservatives, which is the late Phyllis Schlafly. 1.00

00:35:38.940 There would be no conservative movement without Phyllis Schlafly. 1.00

00:35:41.900 She was one of the first activists against mass immigration, against globalism, against so-called free trade.

00:35:48.200 And yet when she, Eagle Forum was one of the most important grassroots conservative groups during the entire Cold War.

00:35:55.920 And yet at the end, you never saw her really welcomed or given the honor that she was due because we were honoring people like Christopher Hitchens because he supported the Iraq War. 0.50

00:36:07.460 Christopher Hitchens is an atheist who's never aligned with the right on anything.

00:36:11.800 But you have National Review doing Hosanna's to him.

00:36:15.300 I mean, there's a certain there's a certain element in which there's never really been an American right, because every time it seems like the movement is coming into its own,

00:36:27.040 some people who were never really part of it shove themselves to the front of the line and then send it on these tangents that don't really go anywhere.

00:36:34.400 And certainly we saw that with George W. Bush, where you had massive opportunities to do a lot of productive things,

00:36:42.000 most notably shut down mass immigration following 9-11.

00:36:45.060 And instead, things actually got worse.

00:36:48.540 And now I think the Republican base has become so sick and so bitter of these continued betrayals

00:36:55.840 that they're starting to look to the people who had been kicked out of the movement a long time ago,

00:37:00.300 the people who William F. Buckley and his tradition of purges said were no longer part of the respectable right.

00:37:07.760 Well, the respectable right has failed us.

00:37:10.000 So maybe instead of looking to the respectable right, we need to start looking to the real right if we actually want to win this thing.

00:37:16.040 Yeah. And it's amazing when you see everyone shrieking about this stuff.

00:37:18.820 Like he said, you go back and read Pat Buchanan's books and they're just prophetic.

00:37:23.200 It's exactly what happened. You blow by blow. Same thing, of course, with Paul Gottfried.

00:37:29.800 And really, Sam Francis is one that I delve into in my upcoming book, The Total State.

00:37:35.880 When you look at James Burnham and his managerial revolution, the fact that Sam Francis basically updated that book

00:37:42.460 and Leviathan and its enemies and not only updated it, but expanded it in critical ways that, again,

00:37:48.060 made amazing predictions that bear themselves out.

00:37:51.540 You read that book and you look at what happened in 2020, it's a one-to-one.

00:37:55.800 You feel like you've got a decoder ring for the future when you read that book.

00:38:00.380 And these people, these intellectual titans who predicted all of this stuff, knew exactly what was going to happen,

00:38:05.380 got pushed out. And who do they get pushed out in favor of?

00:38:08.680 Guys with disastrous policies that have-

00:38:12.100 Crystal, Pudhoritz, the architects of the Iraq invasion.

00:38:16.380 I mean, none of these guys, Wolfowitz, if you want to go back to the Bush administration,

00:38:21.180 Dick Cheney, if you want to, and certainly Dick Cheney's daughter, if you want to look at the kinds

00:38:26.480 of leaders that the American conservative movement has been celebrating until recently,

00:38:31.060 none of these guys have any accomplishments to speak of.

00:38:33.600 None of these guys have ever done anything for us.

00:38:35.760 All of these people have just kind of made things worse.

00:38:38.220 Not kind of, have deliberately made things worse.

00:38:41.260 And I think there's, this is one of the kind of delicate issues, and this would require a whole

00:38:46.440 nother segment, but I think there's a real contempt for the conservative base by a lot of the people

00:38:54.400 in the GOP and a lot of the people, even within some of the ranks of the conservative movement.

00:38:59.400 A lot of these people, I think, got to where they are because of where they grew up or where they ran

00:39:05.100 for office, but they don't want to be on the right. They're embarrassed by the people they have

00:39:09.500 to go to for support. They want to be part of the inner party. They want to be part of the

00:39:13.340 Democrats. They want to be part of the media establishment. They don't want to be kissing

00:39:17.180 up to these grassroots conservatives, and they don't, they don't like these people. And I think

00:39:22.360 they, they almost get off when they see these people dispossessed and hurt. And more than anything,

00:39:28.820 the kind of incohate id behind the Trump revolution is really, we want a political movement that is,

00:39:38.120 comes out of us and fights for us and fights for our interests and isn't ashamed of it.

00:39:43.820 And I think every group in a democracy has the right to expect that. The American right is tired

00:39:50.560 of being led down false paths by false prophets and being destroyed on purpose. And it's time that

00:39:56.540 we have leaders who actually are part of us and want to do the right thing by us. If you look at

00:40:02.820 Sam Francis, particularly, if we want to, the concept that has gone absolutely mainstream,

00:40:08.440 it's the concept of anarcho tyranny, which is something you would have gotten blank stares

00:40:12.540 from everybody, even five years ago. Now, just about everybody talks about that. And people say,

00:40:18.700 you know, the purpose of a system is what it does. It's about who it's not about what the law being an

00:40:24.700 arbitrary thing. People just laughing when the media says something like experts warn about

00:40:29.740 disinformation and everybody just immediately says like, oh, they're lying again. This kind of

00:40:34.400 contempt and distrust of leading institutions, it's a bad sign in one way, because it shows how

00:40:40.840 American opinion is fragmenting. And these institutions have sort of lost the mandate of

00:40:46.580 heaven. But I think it's a good thing and a necessary thing because there has to be this kind of

00:40:52.480 cynicism toward people who have been misleading you this whole time.

00:40:56.240 If you're going to recapture the idealism and the sincerity of a political movement that actually

00:41:01.820 fights for you. Yeah. And that's why you see, I think, so many, again, mainstream conservatives

00:41:07.380 panicking. Oh, we need someone. We need to be respectable again. We need to have. Come on,

00:41:11.800 guys, be serious. Respectable to who? I mean, that's the question that's never answered.

00:41:15.540 Well, and the description of we need to do serious politics as if serious politics has gotten you

00:41:20.800 anywhere in the last several decades. The very people who have failed you at every turn are

00:41:25.960 explaining how, once again, they're the real adults in the room and they're the ones that can lead you

00:41:30.320 to victory. They just haven't happened to do that for the last several decades. They just keep

00:41:34.800 picking these failing problem policies just randomly out of a hat, I guess. And like you said,

00:41:40.260 I think a lot of this comes down to the fact that many of these people are just second rate elites.

00:41:45.080 They're elites that didn't get to sit down at the cool table. And like you said, they're very angry

00:41:50.920 that now they have to govern the chuds instead of being able to cover, you know, govern the blue 1.00

00:41:56.440 state people. And they would love to go ahead and just switch you out for a voter base that the New

00:42:02.000 York Times would praise, you know? Right. I don't think it's a coincidence. I don't think it's a

00:42:06.060 coincidence that some of the worst Republicans come out of the deep red states. I mean, you saw

00:42:10.220 Lankford, who was trying out of Oklahoma, who was trying to push that immigration amnesty,

00:42:14.260 Murkowski out of Alaska. Senator Murkowski was talking about switching parties now.

00:42:19.140 Of course, Cheney out of Wyoming. And all of these people, I think, are truly embarrassed and

00:42:26.020 not a little bit hateful toward their own constituents because they don't want to be

00:42:30.320 liked by these people. They want to be liked by the New York Times. That's what they've wanted all

00:42:34.060 along. But they were stuck living here and they were stuck running in these areas. And now they are

00:42:40.520 forced to represent people that they have no truck with and don't really consider themselves a part

00:42:44.700 of. The American right really lacks fundamental representation. I mean, it's very hard to think

00:42:51.780 of a certain person who represents you, who is a fighter for you, whereas just about every other

00:42:58.940 group in America, no matter how marginal, can think of a whole list of champions that are saluted by the

00:43:05.720 media and who they turn to every time there's a controversy. And I think that explains why Donald

00:43:11.840 Trump has this remarkable hold on the Republican base, even though, as many of us would say, he may

00:43:17.800 not even deserve it. Certainly, if we think of what happened with free speech, most of this happened

00:43:24.500 when Donald Trump was in office. The Department of Homeland Security started targeting certain groups for

00:43:29.920 being shut down while Donald Trump was president. Donald Trump was hosting symposiums on internet

00:43:35.620 free speech, but he didn't actually do anything. And eventually it ended with he himself being

00:43:41.440 deplatformed. So a lot of people are skeptical about whether he has the follow through. But then again,

00:43:47.500 you look at the alternatives and they say, well, for better or worse, we have to ride or die with Trump

00:43:52.120 because there's nobody else. And a lot of people keep thinking, like, can we have Trumpism without

00:43:58.120 Trump? What is the future of the GOP after Trump? But I think that it sort of gets the question

00:44:04.740 backwards. The question is, why did people rally to Trump and why do they continue to rally to Trump

00:44:10.220 despite everything? And I think it's because despite the way he talks, despite the fact that he

00:44:16.080 exaggerates and the way he stretches the truth sometimes, at the root, people know he's sincere and a

00:44:23.280 fighter. And he does seem to actually care about the people that he's representing. And that is so

00:44:30.200 unique on the American right because they've just been taken advantage of for so long. And I think

00:44:35.520 half of America is crying out for a champion. And it's very tiresome to hear the conservative

00:44:41.000 movement lecture on like, well, this is why you're not allowed to do it because our principles forbid us

00:44:46.180 from pursuing our interests. I, you know, I've, again, I've had the discussion so many times because

00:44:52.040 you're right. I don't think that Donald Trump probably is worthy of the movement that he is in

00:44:56.120 possession of. I don't even know that he has the, you know, the ability or the follow through, as you

00:45:00.320 said. But what I've tried to explain to so many people is they, you know, they whinge on about the

00:45:04.040 problems is it doesn't matter because Donald Trump spoke to American identity in a way that no one had

00:45:09.620 in generations. And you simply can't hand that off to somebody who's got a slightly better suit and is

00:45:16.320 a little better, you know, a little more polished and talking points. There's a, there's an air of

00:45:20.920 that. There's a leadership, there's a quality that's connected to that, that you simply can't

00:45:25.000 transfer. You can't put on a spreadsheet. And that that's something that is so hard for a even good,

00:45:30.700 I think, well-meaning conservatives who really want to win, uh, but, but can't grasp by like just,

00:45:36.740 just being a slightly better, uh, implementation of policy is not the key for, for the mystery of

00:45:43.960 charisma is it's a strange thing. It's not something that you can just get through talking

00:45:48.920 points. And again, if people wanted somebody who classically educated and sprinkles his speech with

00:45:55.100 aphorisms and lessons from history and has a long proven record within the conservative movement,

00:46:00.960 then we know he's a true conservative and will stand with everybody and is also a committed Christian

00:46:05.680 and will do all these things. Well, we had that guy and his name was Pat Buchanan and the

00:46:10.560 conservative movement plunged the knife into his back with utter glee. So now we have Trump.

00:46:16.980 Well, I think that, like I said, what happened with the dare is terrible. I hope, I know I've seen

00:46:22.680 a couple other outlets talking about this. I hope more people do. I think it's critical. Like I said,

00:46:27.360 people can have their disagreements, they can have their opinions, but if no one can read the opinions,

00:46:32.880 then it doesn't matter that this is a free speech issue. This is a first amendment issue. People

00:46:36.820 should have learned their lessons with people like Alex Jones, and they should apply those lessons to

00:46:41.900 people, you know, uh, publications like the dare to understand what's going on and the fight that

00:46:46.840 needs to happen there. Obviously people might have trouble reading the website. Where can they find

00:46:51.600 your work at this point? Well, I'm on Twitter or X, I should say as Vita or James K. I've got the

00:46:57.320 James Polk avatar. Vita.com is still up for now. I've got a book called Conservatism Inc. Battle for

00:47:03.380 the American Right, which is still available on Amazon. And I just want to say, it's not a question

00:47:08.620 about whether you agree with Vita or Peter Brimlow or anybody, any of the figures that we've talked

00:47:13.100 about. Everybody right of center has a stake in this battle because they are coming for everybody.

00:47:19.120 And we've been seeing this happen for years now. The way that service, essential services like

00:47:24.720 financial services are being deplatformed, are being taken away from people for doing things

00:47:30.520 that were absolutely taken for granted even six years ago. And it's the nature of the left that

00:47:35.520 they have to keep expanding the list of quote unquote, hateful or unapproved activities. So if

00:47:41.320 this isn't stopped now, you better believe it's going to come for those things that you may even

00:47:46.060 consider to be respectable. They will come for you too. And so we have to stand together on free speech

00:47:51.960 or most assuredly, we will hang separately. Absolutely. All right, guys, we're going to

00:47:56.160 pivot over to the questions of the people here. We have Patrick Casey says, didn't recognize James

00:48:02.200 without the motorcycle jacket. Great discussion. Yeah. Me wearing a tie. Very unique.

00:48:07.040 Is it? Oh, I didn't know. Are you like, is that like mold bug? Do you have like a motorcycle?

00:48:11.600 It's a long story. I generally not a suit and tie guy.

00:48:16.320 Exactly. Cherub Cow says, Patrick, top three books on your mind at the moment.

00:48:23.280 I promise I'm not kissing up to you. But actually, your upcoming book is one of the ones that I want

00:48:28.440 to read the most when it comes out. I'm actually going through another deep dive into James Burnham

00:48:33.720 right now with the Machiavellians. And because I'm working on a book my own, and I'm working on

00:48:39.660 Leviathan again, which is something I try to approach every two, three years. I mean, it's a big book.

00:48:44.180 Oh, yeah. The thing about Leviathan too is Sam Francis, I've got all of Sam Francis's writings.

00:48:49.480 Unfortunately, I never got to meet him before he died. But Leviathan is seen as being sort of

00:48:55.360 incomplete. I mean, it was found basically on an old computer, and then they decided to publish it.

00:49:00.860 And so we don't know if this was sort of his grand unified theory where he unites some of the identity

00:49:05.980 politics things he was writing about with his insights on Burnham. But it's the closest thing that

00:49:11.180 we have. And so it's the closest thing we have to a grand unified theory of how politics works

00:49:19.960 for the American right right now. And he is unpopular in some quarters because, and I think

00:49:26.340 you'd agree with me on this, is he, as was James Burnham, was a modernist. He doesn't look to

00:49:32.080 supernatural explanations. He doesn't trust in faith. He sees everything as very concrete and cynical

00:49:37.920 and worldly. I don't think there's necessarily a contradiction between embracing faith and

00:49:44.720 understanding that we also live in a fallen world. And politics is perhaps the most fallen

00:49:49.860 industry of all. And people are going to operate in this way. And if you're going to win in the

00:49:54.740 political sphere, you have to understand how fallen people act, not imagine that they act as you hope

00:50:01.700 they would act. Yeah. Interestingly, that manuscript, like you said, I think is unedited. And you can tell

00:50:08.260 when you read Leviathan because he repeats himself several times. That book would probably be at least

00:50:13.280 a hundred pages shorter. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. And I'm sure there was a lot more stuff that he

00:50:17.480 would have been brought in. And Sam Francis's writings are just about everywhere. But I mean,

00:50:21.800 you can see how pithy and concise he normally was with his columns. And obviously Leviathan is a very

00:50:28.120 different style of writing. And he is, it is, like you said, very materialist and modernist.

00:50:33.320 Interestingly enough, the, the, uh, kind of, kind of the debate running between me and my buddy,

00:50:38.900 Nima Parvini mirrors the one between Gottfried and Sam Francis about, about kind of the motivations

00:50:44.900 of the ruling elite. And so I think there is a way you can apply Italian elite theory, you know,

00:50:51.140 with that, even if you're someone who has a belief in the supernatural, who, who does, uh, if you are a

00:50:57.920 person of faith, I don't think it's exclusive just because Sam Francis and Burnham do tend to fall

00:51:02.100 on that side that, that you, you can't apply those lessons, but either way, it's a critical

00:51:07.080 stepping stone in understanding what's happening right now. And I think, uh, not everyone's going

00:51:11.740 to read that book just because it's a massive tome, uh, and relatively technical. Uh, but I think

00:51:16.520 more people who are, you know, on the right and trying to explore those ideas need to do so because

00:51:21.380 it's a critical bridge.

00:51:23.080 I would mention, since you mentioned Gottfried, uh, for a third book that's actually in print is Paul

00:51:27.560 Godfrey is multiculturalism and the politics of guilt, which gets into the moral motivations for

00:51:32.420 a lot of what the left is doing. I read that when I was in college, you know, 20 some odd years ago.

00:51:37.160 And that's another one where everything that he says seems more and more true by the day,

00:51:40.920 because at the time, a lot of the things he talked about were very marginal, the kind of things you

00:51:45.060 would only see on a college campus. And now they're everywhere.

00:51:49.040 And, uh, glue in the dark says principle, uh, that guarantees defeat is a crutch. I'll say this

00:51:55.720 because a lot of people will frame it this way. They'll say, Oh, well, if you're trying to fight

00:51:59.260 to win, you don't have principles. That's terrible. Okay. That that's an attitude that's been handed

00:52:04.020 to you by your end. You absolutely should have principles, but you should make sure that they're

00:52:08.320 your principles. They're not a, they're not a terrible frame. That's been handed to you by someone

00:52:12.800 who makes wants to make sure that you're not a threat to their power. If you notice that every

00:52:17.000 one of your principles is I'm not allowed to have power and every one of the principles is we're

00:52:20.800 allowed to have power. You should probably think about where those principles came from,

00:52:23.660 because they probably didn't come from people who were looking out.

00:52:26.480 And especially the P when the people on your side are saying things like, well, we're not allowed

00:52:31.360 to pursue power because it's actually evil to pursue power in this world or limited government

00:52:36.440 says we shouldn't even run for office or care about the state, what the state does. Frankly,

00:52:41.060 I just don't believe you. I think you're saying that because it's in your interest for people not

00:52:46.340 to do things. And this applies to everybody. Whenever somebody tells you something, you should always ask

00:52:51.400 yourself, how does this person benefit if I believe what he's telling me? And certainly when you have

00:52:57.180 people on the right saying things like, well, you shouldn't listen to these people because our

00:53:01.660 principle is that we should remain where we are and be happy. Frankly, it may be something as cynical

00:53:07.220 as if we remain out of power, then you can keep giving me money so I can tell you how bad things

00:53:12.320 are and how we'll never get any better because some people make an industry out of just doing that.

00:53:16.380 Very true. All right, guys. Well, I appreciate everybody coming by. Obviously, you should make

00:53:22.200 sure to check out James and his work. And of course, if it's your first time on this YouTube

00:53:27.940 channel, you should go ahead and subscribe. You can go ahead and make sure to turn on your

00:53:32.180 notifications, click the bell, everything you need to do to catch these streams live. And if you'd like

00:53:37.220 to get these broadcasts as podcasts, make sure that you go ahead and subscribe to the Orr McIntyre

00:53:41.380 show on your favorite podcast platform. When you do leave a rating and review, it really helps with

00:53:46.620 the algorithm. And of course, you should also take James' suggestion and go ahead and pre-order my

00:53:51.480 book, The Total State. You can do that on Amazon and everywhere else. All right, guys. Thank you so

00:53:56.520 much. And as always, I'll talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - April 10, 2024

Letitia James and the War on VDARE ｜ Guest： James Kirkpatrick ｜ 4⧸10⧸24

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