The Auron MacIntyre Show - Leviathan Is Inevitable ｜ Guest： Whatifalthist ｜ 11⧸11⧸24

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00:00:30.000 Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.780 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.960 Before we get started, I just wanted to let you know that even though Trump has won this stunning victory,

00:00:45.520 much of the left and tech are trying to cancel the right, trying to cancel conservative voices and right-wing voices.

00:00:52.160 So if you would like to go ahead and support my channel, support the work that is going on here,

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00:01:12.980 Joining me today to discuss all kinds of stuff from managerialism to history to the work of Sam Francis

00:01:27.700 to what might be happening after this amazing victory from Trump is the host of the What If Alt History podcast and YouTube channel.

00:01:37.920 It's Rudyard Lynch. Thanks for joining me, man.

00:01:40.640 Thank you so much for having me.

00:01:42.120 I learned about your work from reading The Total State,

00:01:45.160 which is a handful of books that really explained how the modern tools of oppression,

00:01:53.380 I'm going to use that term, work.

00:01:55.200 And so I thought you did a very good job here, and I started following you on Twitter,

00:01:58.640 and thank you for having me.

00:01:59.860 Oh, absolutely. No, I appreciate that.

00:02:02.760 I wanted to talk to you today because you've done a lot of work on anthropology, on history.

00:02:09.880 I wanted to get into the election itself.

00:02:12.880 You made some pretty interesting predictions, wanted to kind of update on that.

00:02:17.000 But before we get into all of it, you've got a pretty large YouTube channel for the kind of topics that you talk about.

00:02:23.840 I was wondering if you could tell people a little bit about how you got into all this and how you got started.

00:02:27.780 Just for a test, are you hearing through, how's the sound quality now?

00:02:33.560 It's a little distant.

00:02:34.900 Okay. Sorry. I apologize. I know you're live, but I'm trying to get my microphone quality right.

00:02:39.860 I didn't realize that.

00:02:44.680 Nope. Worse.

00:02:48.060 Talking through my camera then.

00:02:51.820 So to backpedal this, I started this channel when I was 13.

00:02:57.300 I'm 23 now.

00:02:58.500 And I started doing something called alternate history, which is like, what if the Nazis won the world wars? 0.73

00:03:05.320 And what if the South won the civil war?

00:03:09.040 And I did that.

00:03:10.600 The guns of the South.

00:03:11.800 Who was that?

00:03:12.400 Was that Harry turtle dove?

00:03:13.700 That's it. Yeah.

00:03:14.300 Yeah.

00:03:14.440 I remember that.

00:03:14.960 Yeah.

00:03:15.080 So I did that for the first seven years.

00:03:17.400 And then as we moved from a Simpsons America to a Blade Runner America, I gradually pivoted the content more towards anthropology and philosophy and history and that stuff.

00:03:32.180 And I've been doing that for the last, I would say, four years where it's been a gradual evolution as I've learned more.

00:03:41.320 But I would say now the current content is just trying to explain a world that doesn't make much sense.

00:03:48.100 I hear that.

00:03:49.900 Yeah.

00:03:50.120 I also do a good bit of that on my channel.

00:03:52.800 So I'm glad that I found that common path.

00:03:56.220 But I want to dive a little deeper.

00:03:58.440 Like I said, you made some pretty important predictions before the election.

00:04:05.080 I want to see how you feel about how things shook out, where you might think things are going.

00:04:08.960 And then also you told me you wanted to spend a good amount of time on Sam Francis and his book, Leviathan, Its Enemies, which is something I, of course, would love to talk about and can go on for quite a bit.

00:04:18.340 So we're going to dive into all that in just a second, guys.

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00:05:24.800 All right, so let's begin with a little bit of contemporary election reactions.

00:05:32.340 The hot takes are always the way to open up.

00:05:35.380 You famously had a debate on Tim Pool.

00:05:38.940 You've been talking about how we're going to get to civil war.

00:05:41.800 Now, I have not predicted civil war, but I have predicted, as you know from the book, things coming apart slowly.

00:05:48.200 Less kinetic, a little more the slow disillusion of kind of our central Leviathan and the empire that it maintains.

00:05:57.340 But looking at what has just happened here with this Trump victory, what do you feel the status is with kind of this conflict in the United States?

00:06:05.480 I have become known as the revolution guy because, and that's what I've gone on most of my podcasts to discuss, where I believe that the U.S. will have a revolution or civil war within the next six months.

00:06:25.760 And I stand by that, and I have a bet with my friend Andrew Heaton that we will have a thousand politically motivated deaths by April.

00:06:33.980 And I understand that sounds ridiculous, but I can explain why I believe that.

00:06:40.100 And what I frequently tell people is that the world is not reasonable or rational, and expecting it to be reasonable is, in fact, profoundly unreasonable.

00:06:51.360 And I've studied how people in the past predict the future, and I consistently find the error that people over-predict for short periods of time and then under-predict for long periods of time.

00:07:06.200 And the way history normally works is that you have an event, and then it's just like thunder and hurricane.

00:07:12.340 And people assume things will happen in a more gradualistic process than they often do, where you look at the end of colonialism, you look at the fall of the Soviet Union, you look at World War I, the Thirty Years' War.

00:07:25.880 And for a historic era to change, you need a tremendous amount of social tension, which builds up over time into a big event.

00:07:34.600 And I've studied several different historic models for why I believe America will have a civil war or revolution.

00:07:42.260 And when I say civil war or revolution, I like to say I'm betting against God.

00:07:47.040 And what that means is that to predict the world, you have to understand every variable because everything is connected, and that's physically impossible.

00:07:54.380 So I don't pretend to be correct all the time, and especially so for short periods of time, my predictive abilities crash.

00:08:02.300 But I think America will have a violent conflict, and the four historic parallels I use the most often are the English Civil War, the French Revolution, the fall of the Roman Republic, and the American Civil War.

00:08:17.220 And so I tease out parallels between them, and I could get more so into the reasoning for why I believe this, but I think it will happen as a side effect of the transfer of power involving this election.

00:08:32.200 And if I'm wrong there, which I may be, my next guess is I think we'll still have a conflict like that, but it would be caused by probably a budget crisis.

00:08:41.560 And I don't think we can get out of the next four years without a conflict like that.

00:08:47.220 Well, I famously have a cigar writing on roughly the time frame you've predicted, so I hope you're wrong because I don't want my country to burn down.

00:08:55.840 But, you know, if you're right, I do get a cigar out of it, and that's really important.

00:09:00.000 One thing that I have, you know, thought about a lot about, like the first thing that really shook me, and I've had doubts previously, but what really shook me out of kind of my conservative talk radio, you know, bromides, was what happened with COVID, right?

00:09:16.500 Like, I kept hearing constantly, when, you know, tyranny comes, that's why we have the Second Amendment, and people will rise up, and they'll never allow this.

00:09:25.120 You know, there'll be a bright line in the sand that when they close the churches, I mean, obviously, that will be the moment, and, you know, people will really fight back.

00:09:32.160 And then just none of that happened.

00:09:33.880 And so that was really my disillusion with the idea that there would be any real violence on the right.

00:09:38.660 I mean, the left screams about January 6th and all that garbage, but, you know, no one even showed up with a weapon, you know?

00:09:45.960 So the idea that that's a real insurrection of any kind is just a complete joke.

00:09:50.120 But, you know, I did think that the left still had violence in them because we saw what happened with the riots, and we saw what happened, you know, BLM and Antifa.

00:09:58.180 These are still people who are regularly ready to go to battle.

00:10:01.400 And so I assume that even though the right had kind of petered out on its revolutionary fervor, the left might take itself to a violent conclusion if it fed itself enough of its own rhetoric, these kind of things.

00:10:12.300 That's kind of what I assume going into this election.

00:10:15.020 But it felt like at the end of this Trump victory, there really was just this complete exhaustion from the left in that moment where, okay, Trump's winning.

00:10:24.620 It's clear.

00:10:25.600 Here comes the violence.

00:10:27.320 Nothing.

00:10:27.820 Not even a protest.

00:10:28.780 Even at a Madison Square Garden rally in the middle of New York where they're calling this guy a fascist who's going to end democracy.

00:10:35.920 Just nobody cared, and nobody bothered to show up.

00:10:38.400 And so my question is, you know, again, in my book, I thought it was more of a slow disillusion than a violent conflict.

00:10:44.340 I think I even might double down on that at this point because it feels like even if things get worse materially for most people, you really would need a drastic crash.

00:10:55.280 Like, it can't just be a slow decline like we are talking, you know, people cannot eat tomorrow type situation if we're going to see anything change.

00:11:03.400 So there's a couple of different points there.

00:11:06.440 So give me a second to hit each one of them. 0.98

00:11:08.840 Sure.

00:11:09.020 So for the first side of it, I think this is going to happen sooner rather than later, and I think this is going to be a brief, something that happens pretty quickly because a handful of different variables.

00:11:23.400 The first of which is that Peter Turchin is a data scientist who studies civilization, not civilizational, but state collapses.

00:11:34.600 And so he's an author, and I'm pulling from a handful of other authors, like David Hackett Fisher is a great example, the Strauss-Howe cycle, et cetera.

00:11:43.420 And they all point to there being a conflict in America in the 2020s, and you look at the previous conflicts in American history, such as the American Revolution, the U.S. Civil War, and the World Wars, is that there was tensions that built up until it snapped.

00:12:07.140 And it was often unclear to figure out what would occur before the conflict until the conflict happened, where in the American Revolution, the Brits kept pushing the Americans around, and then there was mutual instigating events until it culminated.

00:12:24.600 Same thing with the U.S. Civil War.

00:12:26.860 And I believe this will happen sooner rather than later because I'm looking at a variety of statistics.

00:12:34.140 The one that scares me the most is debt, where the speed at which we are piling up such an enormous amount of debt is historically unparalleled.

00:12:44.860 We can't keep going with this debt for another few years, and if you keep doing so, it's just going to completely destroy society.

00:12:53.160 And if you look at the English Civil War, if you look at the French Revolution, if you look at the French Wars of Religion, they were all caused by budget crises, where one side refused to give another side a concession.

00:13:03.100 So that's the first part of it.

00:13:05.440 Second part of it is that the average American is careening very close to bankruptcy now, and as inflation hits, cost of living goes up.

00:13:16.820 And so you're at this cross point where the government has to keep printing inflation, but at the same time, the cost of living goes up, which pushes people into poverty.

00:13:26.000 And if the current trends continue, and I don't know why they'd stop, the average American is going to hit bankruptcy in the next year, as is the country is going to hit bankruptcy.

00:13:36.140 And what a civil war or revolution does is it provides plausible deniability for one faction to avoid an issue they're getting at.

00:13:45.080 So if we have a revolution or civil war, both the Republicans and the Democrats have plausible deniability to have basically a debt jubilee, which is what they need to to restart.

00:13:54.600 And for my final point, the statistics Peter Turchin looks at are average income, income inequality, and competition for elite jobs.

00:14:09.700 Those three statistics in 2010, he predicted would result in a civil war in America in the 2020s.

00:14:17.260 And then if you look at other statistics where David Hackett Fisher studied inflation and there have been even stuff like you can look at height, you can look at sleep time.

00:14:27.520 When the average age of marriage gets above 28 historically, you're going to have a civil war.

00:14:31.760 And so all of these wellness metrics are butting up against a cliff where you basically have to have a war in order to reset them.

00:14:42.200 No, I certainly agree that there is a necessary threshold that is being approached.

00:14:53.120 And I guess, you know, I'm just not sure how quickly we will hit it.

00:14:58.220 I think you're right that at some point, there's simply too much.

00:15:02.340 The financial system, as we understand it, too many people are invested for us to make any kind of course correction.

00:15:08.280 And so what we'll continue to do is kind of accelerate while throwing these kind of weird patches, you know, time and again, trying to kind of mediate the negative effects on some different groups when they happen to win a particular election or get a seat at the table.

00:15:24.340 But ultimately, I don't I don't see the system turning around, though.

00:15:29.400 Honestly, multipolarity might kind of solve that problem if you want to call it at a solution in a way when you when the U.S. doesn't have kind of infinite space to expand its economy across a global empire and dictate kind of the economic operations of the rest of the world.

00:15:48.260 That might require a haircut, whether we like it or not, but perhaps that would would bring about the collapse that you're talking about.

00:15:55.820 The variable I keep bringing up time and time again is I don't think people understand the desperation and poverty and just mental health issues of the average American, especially the young people who are the people who fight in wars.

00:16:10.300 If we did a survey of Americans in their 20s, we would just find absolutely horrifying results.

00:16:16.660 And this is like I've studied a significant amount where I've compiled well-being statistics among Americans.

00:16:21.800 And I think we're at the point where this can't sustain if this if the war starts in three years.

00:16:27.760 I accept that. But I don't think we can get past the next four years.

00:16:31.200 And what I would also say is we don't view history as a fundamentally psychological process, but it is.

00:16:39.000 And when we're looking at at the current results of this election and I'm happy that we got this result, I'm very happy, but I don't think this is going to solve the underlying issue. 0.55

00:16:50.000 And when you look at how the left reacts, you're dealing with fundamentally a psychological process because their motivations are the motivations of a mentally ill person.

00:17:00.100 And so they're reacting through their mental illness, not to the outside world.

00:17:04.020 And what I can sense is that we've hit such an emotional fever pitch with almost like a psychological thunderstorm that it has to come crashing down in order to lessen the pressure.

00:17:17.400 Because when you look at these and you look at political radicals today, they these are people who are basically on the psychic and psychic edge of breaking down.

00:17:29.320 Yeah, I think in addition to just the the life pressures and the mental health pressures, you know, we're also facing a end of civilizational meaning crisis, you know, the type of thing that, you know, I'm a big fan of Oswald Spangler.

00:17:47.000 And I think that his kind of morphology of civilizations is relatively accurate.

00:17:56.320 And we really are in this kind of late civilizational winter when it comes to the loss of metaphysical and transcendent understanding, the rejection of this on pretty much every level.

00:18:08.280 We're also deep in the grip of money power.

00:18:10.540 And, you know, he says that oligarchy is only ever going to be broken, you know, by the events that that you're kind of discussing now.

00:18:19.440 And so I think ultimately, in kind of the historical cycle, you're you're on good footing.

00:18:25.260 It's not what anyone wants to hear, of course.

00:18:28.000 You know, everyone wants to hear that small adjustments or maybe even really bold major adjustments will will put us back onto track.

00:18:36.760 And I don't want to be a deterministic downer in the sense of, oh, well, we should just not bother then, because if things are bad, you know, you they're they're just going to get worse because a historical cycle says so.

00:18:48.540 But I do think there is a certain level of humility that needs to be understood about how much you can change kind of the zeitgeist.

00:18:55.680 Yeah, I spend a lot of time trying to explain to conservatives kind of long, fundamental political truths, and I usually hear them back like 80 percent of the time.

00:19:07.500 And then when it comes time to apply them, I recognize, oh, nobody got it.

00:19:11.360 And we're actually just doing exactly the same thing over again.

00:19:14.020 And so it's one of those things where, you know, even if people can mouth the words of like, yeah, we need change, we need reform.

00:19:19.680 These are huge issues.

00:19:20.720 We have to address them.

00:19:22.140 What it would take to really turn that ship in a very historical sense is overwhelming.

00:19:26.660 And almost no one is willing to really do what it would take.

00:19:30.420 I apologize for the interjection.

00:19:32.220 But do you know about Amory Durian, Akur?

00:19:34.880 No.

00:19:36.080 OK, I'm going to give you a treat here.

00:19:37.720 He is my favorite author, and he's a Spenglerian author who takes Spengler's philosophic ideas and applies them to broader things.

00:19:45.820 So, for example, he wrote The Coming Caesars, which is one of the things I'm pulling from, where he compares Western to classical civilization.

00:19:53.120 And he was writing in the World War II era, where he said America is the new Rome, and he predicted there to be a fall of the Roman Republic moment in the 21st century, which is what I'm pulling a lot of my info from.

00:20:04.280 He also wrote The Soul of India and The Soul of China, which are the best books on explaining those civilizations I've read.

00:20:12.380 He also wrote Sex and Power in History, which is about how the relations between men and women and how those gender roles result in the rise and fall of civilizations.

00:20:25.500 Because there are archetypal issues with an over-masculine and an over-feminine civilization.

00:20:30.120 And finally, one of my favorite books of his is The Eye of Shiva, where he compares ancient Hindu teachings to modern physics.

00:20:39.160 And he explains how the Hindus were able to figure out a lot of modern physics principles 2,000 years ago. 0.81

00:20:46.460 Interesting. All right. I'll have to check that.

00:20:49.460 Add that to my ever-growing pile of history that I'm just never getting through.

00:20:53.760 I'm working through Heidegger right now, and I hate reading Heidegger, even though he's insightful.

00:20:59.740 So I get like 100 pages in, and then I go read a whole other book just to reward myself, and then I go sit back down and do the next 100 pages.

00:21:06.840 At this point, I've given up reading 19th century German philosophers.

00:21:11.360 At this point, I try to read Spengler.

00:21:15.760 I've taken a lot of Spengler's ideas.

00:21:17.900 But past a certain threshold, I just resent these authors, and I'm thinking, I'm not going to play into your game.

00:21:23.120 Because it's like they're constantly rattling your head to confuse you so that they can guide you towards whatever they want.

00:21:28.160 And I felt that way about Hegel.

00:21:30.480 I felt that way about Spengler, about Ovova, about Jung.

00:21:34.420 It's just, say your point, man.

00:21:36.580 Yeah, I like Spengler.

00:21:38.460 I feel like I can read and understand Spengler relatively straightforward.

00:21:42.280 How?

00:21:43.540 I don't know. 0.96

00:21:44.760 Maybe it's just that, you know, certain books talk, you know, this is going to sound stupid for some people, but certain books speak to you. 0.89

00:21:51.540 You know what I mean?

00:21:52.260 Like certain authors speak to you, and the minute you read them, you get them, even so that sometimes other people don't.

00:21:58.160 That's how I feel about Spengler.

00:21:59.500 Like, it was just something that I read, and I got immediately, and was really formative for me.

00:22:03.980 Yeah, yeah.

00:22:04.220 But there's other people that, you know, like I said, like some people really love Heidegger, and I just, it's not garbage.

00:22:11.880 It's insightful, but it's just very difficult to read, and it's not enjoyable, and it doesn't immediately opening things up for me.

00:22:18.280 So, yeah.

00:22:19.320 Yeah.

00:22:19.820 I only understood Spengler when I read about Hermeticism, because I realized Spengler was trying to apply Hermetic principles to history.

00:22:28.160 Mm-hmm.

00:22:28.880 Yeah.

00:22:30.340 Makes sense.

00:22:31.280 All right.

00:22:31.600 Well, we talked a little bit about the election here, but our main topic was going to be Sam Francis.

00:22:39.300 So, obviously, I wrote a book on, you know, the Manajero regime.

00:22:43.940 People have heard me talk about it ad nauseum.

00:22:45.620 So, let me get a little bit of your background in that.

00:22:48.680 How did you come to hearing about Sam Francis?

00:22:51.800 Because Leviathan and its Enemies is like an 800-page book that desperately needs editing.

00:22:56.600 So, most people don't just like grab that one off the library shelves.

00:23:00.520 I read it because I had to live with the consequences.

00:23:03.840 Hmm.

00:23:05.980 Yeah, but like where did you run into it, I mean?

00:23:08.020 So, I ran into Sam Francis because I read a book called After Liberalism by Matthew Rose, which was about all of these post-liberal, post-Christian rightist thinkers.

00:23:21.800 And he talks about Sam Francis, Avola, Spengler, and two other writers I'm forgetting.

00:23:30.500 And so, I got into Sam Francis due to that.

00:23:33.080 And the thing that got me interested in it was trying to figure out how modern society uses power.

00:23:41.060 Because I would say through wokeness, wokeness really confused me about why it happened.

00:23:48.520 Because the incentive structure that results in wokeness has to be really bizarre because…

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00:24:27.800 Everyone's actions make sense in the context they're using them.

00:24:32.560 And wokeness is so patently absurd, that must mean the incentives are completely broken to reach that point.

00:24:38.240 And Sam Francis really explains, for those that don't have context, Sam Francis was a conservative figure in the 20th century.

00:24:46.840 And he was really into studying James Burnham work, James Burnham's work on the managerial revolution.

00:24:52.780 And so he wrote Leviathan and its enemies, which is an incredible book, where he goes through the origin of the managerial class's dominance over America, their right to rule, how they did it, and what their goals are.

00:25:10.520 And I thought the book was brilliant because it literally explains wokeness.

00:25:15.120 It explains why it formed.

00:25:16.760 It explains where it's going.

00:25:18.060 It explains its strengths and weaknesses in a way that I think conservatives need.

00:25:22.460 Because when you're fighting the left, you're not fighting the left.

00:25:25.280 You're fighting the bureaucracy, which uses the left as its religion.

00:25:28.600 Yeah, that is something that I think is really important.

00:25:32.560 Obviously, James Burnham's work in the managerial revolution is interesting because it follows a tradition of other people in what many people call the Italian elite theory.

00:25:44.460 He's using Vilfredo Pareto and Gaetano Mosca.

00:25:47.940 It's kind of this class analysis, but from the right frame.

00:25:52.340 And so, you know, obviously he was a Trotskyite as he was writing this book, so he's still got kind of those Marxist priors, but he's discovering this kind of other, you know, entire understanding of how to do class analysis that doesn't have to hold on to the Marxism.

00:26:07.120 But he doesn't bring in the ideology.

00:26:09.520 You know, he brings in the structure.

00:26:10.620 He brings in, okay, this is why the Industrial Revolution and massification and, you know, the increase in the ability to produce, consume, and mass indoctrination through mass media.

00:26:23.500 Like, these are all critical aspects that create the need for centralization.

00:26:27.580 But he doesn't hit on, like you said, this kind of ideological fusion with wokeness, like what ended up being critical to the spread of this.

00:26:37.200 And Sam Francis takes the time to really explain why kind of the radical left and the mainstream did not jive in the 60s, but slowly grew together in the, you know, in kind of the 90s, 2000s in a way that most people, I don't think, understand.

00:26:53.560 That's why so many classical liberals, as they like to call themselves today, which is just disillusioned leftists, they don't believe anything classical liberals believe.

00:27:00.220 But these people will always say, oh, well, I believe something different from wokeness.

00:27:04.800 Like, no, you believe a stepping stone to wokeness.

00:27:07.960 And so you're surprised that your leftism eventually met its inevitable outcome.

00:27:14.560 Not, you know, not the things that existed previously that were going to get you there where you didn't understand they had a problem.

00:27:20.260 Yes, I'm glad you picked up on that, because I thought that's one of Francis's most brilliant points, where he talks about the alliance between the new left and the, sorry, consensus liberals and the new left.

00:27:32.840 And the consensus liberals are basically the rationalist, Reddit, the science trademarked, that demographic.

00:27:40.880 And then the new left is mother goddess, Wicca, intuition, your truth, divine feminine.

00:27:48.100 And these two pretend to be different.

00:27:51.040 And I guess they are different, but they play this shell game where the new left says something completely deranged.

00:27:56.280 And then the consensus liberals say, hey, we get that.

00:27:59.160 We get that's deranged.

00:28:00.540 But if you make this small, reasonable step for progress, then it's going to be good for all of us.

00:28:08.060 And the reality is the consensus liberals just stack bureaucracies with their supporters so that they can enable whatever they want.

00:28:15.180 And there's two sources that I think explain the ideological side of wokeness the best, because you're right that Sam Francis didn't cover it much.

00:28:24.160 One is Kurt Doolittle, where Kurt Doolittle basically talks about, he covers evolutionary strategies.

00:28:32.420 And he and I don't agree on everything, but there's several things he's completely brilliant on, where he talks about how wokeness is a strategy of maximizing parasitism.

00:28:43.460 And it's a worldview that completely abdicates responsibility that allows the highest amount of free riding ever.

00:28:50.520 And I combine that with McGill, Christ's master and his emissary.

00:28:54.340 And so I call wokeness feminine materialism, where it's a combination of a purely materialist worldview with the toxic feminine. 0.74

00:29:02.700 Yeah, bio-linitism works somewhere along that line, if you're familiar with that idea at all.

00:29:12.120 But I do think it's very interesting that now we're at this moment where obviously wokeness drove itself so hard and so fast that there does seem to be a certain level of, like I said, exhaustion from the left.

00:29:28.800 Not that they don't believe these things still, but ultimately it seems like at least their willingness to do violence on their behalf has waned somewhat.

00:29:38.140 Do you see the wokeness being put away? 1.00

00:29:41.300 Do you think there's another strategy available to the managers and the left for their continued expansion of power?

00:29:46.860 Can they moderate this ideological strain to the point where they can maintain it?

00:29:52.320 I'm glad you asked that question, because my answer is relatively complex, where I refuse to have an opinion on this topic for the next four months, because with the election, I get the sense the left is about to do something.

00:30:08.520 I don't know what it is, because with their current low rate of emotion, it's unclear if that's the tide pulling back or if it's just the water level going down, because it could be that this is the buildup for a bigger event in the future, where in the same way that before a tsunami or before a storm, everything is dead quiet.

00:30:33.160 I don't know. And so I'm going to wait the next few months to see which of that's the case.

00:30:38.020 My suspicion is that the left was flabbergasted by losing this hard.

00:30:42.860 And so they're basically in a place of panicking, trying to figure out their next move because they're so emotionally motivated that their followers have built up all these emotions that has to be released.

00:30:54.100 And if they don't release those emotions, they're going to cannibalize their own leadership until they get a leader who rationalizes their emotions.

00:31:02.860 And I think it's on a growth curve. It's on a decline curve where it's often the case that an empire will reach its highest geographic extent when it's already in decline.

00:31:13.580 And so for wokeness, I think they stopped converting any new people around 2020.

00:31:20.060 And so the question is, with their current group of followers who are extinct in the long term, because they're devolving into an insane cult that is actively pushing for its own suicide.

00:31:31.000 The question is, what do they do in the process of committing their own suicide?

00:31:35.920 One of the things I like to tell conservatives is the left wants to lose, where you look at degrowth, you look at them trying to destroy their own countries, they're trying to destroy their own social institutions. 0.99

00:31:47.860 Every single leftist institution, if you watch it, you will find that they are actively, and this is one of the reasons why I think we'll have a war, because the left burns through their social capital so fast that they end up putting themselves in positions of desperation very quickly because they burn through all their options.

00:32:04.780 And so I don't know, but I think the left's going to try something, and it's unclear what that is yet, but I think they've built up too much emotional tension to go away quietly.

00:32:19.720 Now, one alternative could be a true circulation of elites, like not a, oh, we got a new guy in the White House and a couple of, you know, cabinet positions change, new FBI director, problem solved, you know, the same dumb stuff conservatives have done a thousand times and then watch the left just run all over them.

00:32:40.160 But, you know, a lot of people have pointed to the rise of Elon, the support of David Sachs, you know, Marc Andreessen, there's a lot of Silicon Valley oligarchs behind Trump at this point.

00:32:54.020 It's very clear they're going to take a much more active role in his administration.

00:32:58.040 And it's also clear this time that Trump is familiar, at least, you know, the people who are going to be in charge of a lot of his organization are familiar with the fact that the administrative state and, you know, the managerial regime are a real thing.

00:33:11.600 You don't just, you know, you don't just, I wave article two in front of people and say, I'm the president, you do what I want.

00:33:16.280 Like, you actually have to make a significant change inside these organizations.

00:33:20.140 He's talking about dismantling the Department of Education, these kind of things.

00:33:23.540 Of course, every Republican since Ronald Reagan has made this claim.

00:33:26.700 But the point being, you know, it seems he's much more aware and he would perhaps have the ability this time and kind of the rogue elites necessary to force that actual elite rotation.

00:33:40.380 Do you think that's possible?

00:33:41.900 Do you think he can actually do that?

00:33:44.000 Or is the structure too set against him?

00:33:47.100 Hmm.

00:33:47.820 That's a great question.

00:33:49.560 The, so I think the left knows subconsciously that they're parasitic and they know subconsciously that they don't add that much to society.

00:33:59.840 And I think people have multiple tiers of consciousness.

00:34:04.000 So what they're saying publicly is not what their evolutionary hardwired actual brain thinks.

00:34:10.620 We've found consistently through anthropology that people are very good at deceiving,

00:34:14.400 and even themselves while pushing a completely different evolutionary strategy.

00:34:17.760 And I think the left, for example, the reason the left went full throttle with Obama is that a reasonable person would look at the election of the first black president as a point where America can take race down a few pegs as its dominant consideration.

00:34:34.180 And the left realized, wait, we have to seize total control of society so that the public doesn't get rid of us.

00:34:41.400 And I think there's this innate desperation in the left at the realization that they could be completely replaced by the people you described.

00:34:48.920 We could even just use AI to completely, we could use AI to replace the managerial class almost completely.

00:34:55.940 AI, the internet, and wokeness are the three things that could kill the managerial state.

00:35:00.680 And so I think we're in this weird, awkward moment now where the left realizes that their time is short and that they have to seize power.

00:35:10.120 Actually, you wrote out this really well in The Total State, where I liked your point that cancel culture is an outcome of a leftist elite terrified of the internet.

00:35:19.720 And what I think is going on now is the left is looking for excuses to shove Trump down because he is the leader that the non-managerial coalition rallies around.

00:35:31.180 And if Trump's gone, it's going to be way harder to find the new leader.

00:35:34.460 So I think they're correct there.

00:35:36.140 But the problem is that they're in a place of very little plausible deniability because Trump won the election.

00:35:42.560 None of the legal stuff has stuck to him.

00:35:44.740 But I think the left will spend the next few months desperately looking for anything that they could give some degree of plausible deniability to try to seize power over.

00:35:53.640 And I think it's going to ultimately fail because this election has given Trump basically the mandate of heaven.

00:36:00.460 So if the left tries any shenanigans, the military will side with the right against the left.

00:36:05.440 But the left is so delusional.

00:36:07.340 And so every single time I look at the left, I find that they were more delusional than I believed. 0.96

00:36:13.500 So it wouldn't surprise me if the left tries something completely ridiculous out of this incredibly emotional outburst. 0.84

00:36:21.020 And then the right just crushes them.

00:36:24.320 It's interesting that you brought up the AI automating the managerial lead.

00:36:29.440 It's something that many of us have talked about when we're those of us who are concerned with these issues.

00:36:35.520 And it's something that is a solution for sure.

00:36:39.880 But it also worries me as I think it kicks us into the accelerationist cycle.

00:36:45.720 I'm a big fan of Nick Land's work.

00:36:48.740 And he's a big fan of leaving the human behind and letting, you know, intelligence automate our way out of this.

00:36:56.280 But also, you know, the rest of humanity as well.

00:36:58.220 I'm less a fan of that aspect, but I do think there's a real concern there, which I guess brings me to the point of this stream or the way I titled this stream, because I wanted to ask you this question specifically in relation to the things we're talking about.

00:37:12.340 Is Leviathan inevitable?

00:37:14.420 Because AI is a way to maintain complexity while basically removing the human security system, right?

00:37:22.360 Like we don't need to tie this to a specific set or class of people.

00:37:26.160 We can automate the complexity and continue kind of our centralization and scaling.

00:37:31.780 But I think the problem is the centralization of scaling.

00:37:34.340 And so I wonder, is there a way that civilizations can, you know, maintain their sovereignty, not be destroyed by competing larger civilizations while not becoming this like all-encompassing centralized state?

00:37:50.400 Or is this simply the cost of doing business in kind of the current paradigm?

00:37:55.740 This is the third question in a row you've asked that's really spot on.

00:37:59.360 So I want to congratulate you on that.

00:38:01.040 And this is a conclusion I came to in the last week.

00:38:05.280 So it's good you asked me this question now.

00:38:07.500 And I've congregated like five authors on this topic to reach the conclusion I've reached, where Balaji does a really good job with this, where I think Balaji has pointed out that you're in a place now where the network is fighting with the state.

00:38:25.080 And the state is a 20th century technology, and the network is a 21st century technology.

00:38:29.800 And we are at a very key moment in the history of the internet where I believe that this moment could determine the entire rest of the future.

00:38:44.660 And the real question with the internet is, is that a private or is it public?

00:38:49.700 Because look at this telescreen.

00:38:52.820 We are all being watched by multiple telescreens at once.

00:38:56.060 The government could see us.

00:38:57.400 And if we, in the next, let's say, 15 years, if we establish technological systems through which data is private and through which the internet is a private, non-government managed organization, humanity is free.

00:39:12.340 Because if you can coordinate through the internet, independent from the government, it's the return of the Middle Ages, where you've massively decentralized the power the state has.

00:39:22.880 Because back in medieval Europe, people didn't just organize the state.

00:39:26.980 Sure, you had the Kingdom of France, but you also had the Duchy of Brittany.

00:39:30.040 You had the Hanseatic Merchant League.

00:39:31.860 You had the Catholic Church.

00:39:33.480 You had guild organizations.

00:39:35.060 And so the internet opens up the network.

00:39:39.480 And the network has the potential to destabilize the state.

00:39:43.020 And I believe the fundamental question of our time is life or death.

00:39:50.460 Because, and I mean that in multiple ways, where Nietzsche said that after the century of nihilism would come a philosophy built around human life.

00:39:59.820 And I think we're really hitting up against that threshold, where we have to realize that the technology we're building exists to enable life.

00:40:11.780 And I support using this technology if the ultimate goal is enabling life.

00:40:15.840 Because if you don't go down that path, you end up with a society with three morbidly obese, mentally ill people with robots doing everything else for them. 0.69

00:40:25.960 And you've killed off everyone else in society.

00:40:28.000 Because with AI and automating and that stuff, the natural trajectory of the current elite is to basically push for really, really horrible stuff.

00:40:37.980 And I think if we actually knew what the WEF style elite was pushing for, we would be completely horrified.

00:40:44.100 Because I think they're actively trying to use AI and automating to make the current working population redundant.

00:40:51.520 And I think this is going to be the fundamental struggle of our time.

00:40:57.140 Yeah, no, I certainly agree with that.

00:40:59.780 I mean, it's very clear that you have this scenario where they're trying to phase out while encouraging a large amount of the third world to move in to what was the first world. 1.00

00:41:12.740 They're also phasing out all of the things that that would do, like all of the manual labor, all of the low skilled labor.

00:41:20.080 These things are being automated away.

00:41:21.560 Even a lot of the jobs that people aspire to to get degrees are going to be automated away.

00:41:27.260 And what this creates is this scenario where everyone assumes you can just move people to, you know, the grain dole or, you know, basic income, you know, this kind of stuff.

00:41:39.820 But I think that those are always just dying models for civilizations.

00:41:43.760 Like this is always how a civilization kind of enters a phase of decadency and destitution because people need purpose.

00:41:52.700 People need identity.

00:41:53.640 They, you know, it's not enough for people to just have something to do and something to eat.

00:41:58.180 You know, they have to be tied to real identities and real meaning.

00:42:02.440 And all of the things we're trying to automate and all the things we're trying to remove are going to remove those things.

00:42:07.940 They are only going to worsen that condition.

00:42:09.980 Yes, the material, you know, large estimate may continue on some level.

00:42:14.660 You know, you'll have indoor plumbing and electricity and all these things.

00:42:19.080 But if you continue to create a society where fewer and fewer people have any real meaningful interaction with the destiny of, you know, with their destiny and the destiny of their society, that is going to lead you to revolution just as fast as anything else.

00:42:34.400 Yes, two points.

00:42:36.880 The first is that I was visiting Boston and D.C. over the last few months.

00:42:41.480 And I'm from Philadelphia.

00:42:42.880 So I know the Northeast really well.

00:42:44.940 And I moved to Texas a few years ago.

00:42:46.740 So I'm basically going back to where I grew up, even though Philly, Philly's pretty different from the other Northeastern cities.

00:42:52.860 Philly is more rust belt and avoided Philly avoided the managerial wealth boom of the post World War Two era, which I was resentful about as a teenager because Philly's gone to hell.

00:43:04.400 But now I think it's the best thing that ever happened to us because you look at Boston and D.C. and New York and.

00:43:11.100 Almost every single job in Boston is done by an immigrant.

00:43:14.360 You walk around cabbies or immigrants, front desk people are immigrants, people doing construction or immigrants.

00:43:20.420 And I have a lot of friends from Boston and they're basically stuck with no social mobility because there's this active attempt by the elites to make sure the current population is removed from the gene pool de facto.

00:43:35.320 Because if you can't find work and only like 15 percent of Zoomers use dating apps and with all of that, you're effectively saying you're not welcome inside your own country.

00:43:45.300 And that is so insidious and so evil.

00:43:49.280 And we don't realize they're doing it because they don't say it, but they've done literally everything else to show it.

00:43:54.120 And second variable, and this is one of the points I wish conservative media constantly harped on, is the left has declared war on life.

00:44:02.880 Because you look at every single thing the left wants to get rid of, the nation, the family, religion, tradition, local ties, drama, war, virility, whatever.

00:44:16.400 They're removing every single living thing in a society and they're trying to replace it with a bureaucracy that has no life at all.

00:44:24.700 They're trying to kill society in a process of trying to improve it or improve it.

00:44:32.880 Yeah, I think that's true.

00:44:34.660 I think it's difficult for conservatives because, you know, and I think this is changing, which is really good and helpful.

00:44:42.540 But for a very long time, and certainly when I was paying attention to politics as a younger guy, the conservative movement was one of, you know, we kind of lost social conservatism, like the moral majority and stuff had failed.

00:44:55.740 And, you know, it felt like the Christian, you know, as much as the left is screaming about Christian nationalism or whatever, the real force of the church and these things had really waned inside the right.

00:45:06.420 And so the right of turn, it kind of turned into this, like, well, maintain corporatism, maintain the status quo.

00:45:12.280 Let's get some libertarianism.

00:45:14.060 The libertarians hate it when I say that, but there's no better way to describe it.

00:45:17.680 Like, you know, like, you know, let's be big fans of the economy and, you know, that'll kind of sort everything out.

00:45:23.680 And it became pretty forbidden now, you know, to talk about things like, you know, the role that religion or ethnos or language or culture play in human meaning.

00:45:35.920 And so it's hard for them to argue that the left is stripping away a lot of this stuff because the right surrendered most of it.

00:45:42.620 They said, well, yeah, you should probably have families, I guess, but they don't do anything to encourage them.

00:45:46.940 In fact, they actively, you know, it's the Ben Shapiro, hey, man, just move another job.

00:45:51.860 And it doesn't matter if your entire family has, you know, built roots in a place for 300 years, just rip up all that social fabric and go to some random place and live there for a year until, you know, that job gets, you know, sold to India or something.

00:46:04.700 Like, you know, that's the approach that conservatives have had.

00:46:07.840 So they have a very hard time selling some kind of message of holistic life or meaning when they've destroyed all the stuff about identity that really matters when it comes to building.

00:46:16.940 Those things from the right.

00:46:18.980 Yes.

00:46:19.720 My father told me growing up the post-World War II consensus was the right got rich and the left got culture where every enterprising conservative guy in like the boomer era could make a lot of money and live and get a nice house in Florida.

00:46:34.860 Well, the left got control of the culture.

00:46:37.680 And the way I see things is that the post-World War II consensus, and I don't think you and I exist in the social that consensus where the thing that comes after it.

00:46:46.340 At least hopefully.

00:46:49.660 But the consensus was the post-World War II era was so good that it made every reasonable person satisfied and the people who you could mobilize were the mentally ill people. 0.88

00:47:06.820 And so the left got into power by seizing control of mentally ill people who were deranged enough to push for tactics that normal people wouldn't notice. 0.70

00:47:16.940 And then the right became a complacent party of nice guys.

00:47:19.580 And when I look at the right, we really need to get rid of that nice guy ethos.

00:47:24.300 And of course, I don't think the other side is to be a deranged sociopath.

00:47:28.740 There is a middle ground that is both dynamic and yet moral.

00:47:32.960 But the thing that holds back the right most is that it, for decades, recruited nice guys who just wanted to say, I love my suburban neighborhood so much.

00:47:43.560 And I want to keep my job and I want to keep having Christmas lights and whatever.

00:47:48.880 And it's just the most base material, like status quo ism.

00:47:53.280 Yeah, I mean, I feel that pull because I am certainly someone who grew up in that middle class, you know, and then eventually upper middle class.

00:48:03.980 My father became an attorney, so we were doing a little better near the end of my childhood.

00:48:08.000 But most of it, we were, you know, he was in the Air Force and, you know, we were just moving around, that kind of thing.

00:48:12.260 But, you know, I had a really good childhood.

00:48:14.620 I had one, you know, I remember a lot of 80s toy commercials and, you know, that kind of stuff has a certain level of nostalgia for me, flipping through the magazine at Christmas and picking out your toys and these kind of things are stuff that I still kind of think about and identify with.

00:48:33.960 But at the same time, I know, obviously, that these are are just byproducts of a much more important foundation and that prosperity itself is not sufficient because I watched a lot of people that came from those neighborhoods and those backgrounds, you know, fade away spiritually, not have a way to connect with their parents, not have a way to connect with those that came before. 0.56

00:48:57.500 And so, therefore, when, you know, these, you know, self-hating, like anti-white garbage or like all this anti-Western stuff, all this, you know, general hatred of Christianity in the West, they just kind of went with that tied because there's nothing they were tied down to.

00:49:12.620 And I understand why you say like the left got the mentally ill people, but I try to avoid the, you know, the clinicalization of that stuff. 0.98

00:49:20.120 I think it's just bad.

00:49:22.160 Like, I don't think they're all mentally ill.

00:49:23.960 I think it's just they've chosen a moral system that is not compatible with mine, you know, and so, you know, I think that ultimately you're really seeing people who were invested in unspooling the order as it was versus those looking to maintain it, which is the classic left right distinction in many ways.

00:49:44.140 But I think that really is what organizes them is a bunch of people who otherwise could not be on top in a well-ordered hierarchical civilization, basically looking to generate political instability by unspooling every one of those institutions.

00:49:57.260 Yes. I say mental illness because I think if you brought a medieval philosopher today, he would say our entire society is mentally ill. 0.93

00:50:07.440 I mean, if you brought Thomas Aquinas or Isaac Newton today, he would say your society has lost God and then spiraled down the drain.

00:50:15.660 And I think that's true of almost every faction today.

00:50:19.840 But if you look at young left-wing women have four times the rate of mental illness as any other demographic. 1.00

00:50:26.740 And this is the thing I ought to make a video about because it would take me a while to explain what I think the exact mental illness that leftist culture has.

00:50:36.680 But to speak to something you said earlier is I really got interested in studying the ethnicity of America, where I tried really hard for a couple of months to research what is the dominant ancestral group in each part of America.

00:50:53.540 And I'll send you the map I ended up making in Twitter DMs, but it was really difficult because there was nothing to research this stuff.

00:51:02.000 I had to pull from really obscure authors. I had to look at like hundred-year-old censuses because nothing has been written about the ethnic composition of America.

00:51:12.140 And I thought that's ridiculous because if a state is mostly English or German or Spanish ancestry, that matters a lot to the identities of the people in that state.

00:51:22.600 And it shows how much this has permeated our culture already, that we can't even know about this stuff, which matters to us.

00:51:37.020 And one of the very interesting details is that British Americans are a third of America's population.

00:51:42.300 But in the old census results, it's like 7% because people didn't want to – what people do in America is they have one German ancestor and they say they're German ancestry, but they're really like a quarter German.

00:51:54.680 And so it's crazy that the only two authors that have covered this topic are David Hackett Fisher and Thomas Sowell, both of which who are conservatives, because the left doesn't want to know what the ethnic composition of America is.

00:52:08.360 They don't want anyone else to know that.

00:52:10.180 Thank you for showing the map.

00:52:11.180 No problem.

00:52:12.340 Yeah.

00:52:12.520 If anything, they're trying to change it as quickly as possible.

00:52:16.120 So what do you think that this means, drawing back a little bit on the election, for the future of American identity?

00:52:24.600 Because I think we're at this point, a lot of America – and this is – I'm trying to think of – Clash of Civilizations was that gentleman's name.

00:52:38.220 Yeah.

00:52:38.940 Who are we, Sam Huntington?

00:52:40.280 And I know what you're referring to.

00:52:41.300 Yes.

00:52:41.660 Some Huntington, yes.

00:52:42.920 Huntington, you know, his question is who are we, as you just pointed out.

00:52:46.000 He said this would be the defining, like, post-ideological question, right?

00:52:50.060 We've moved beyond the Cold War ideological bipolar reality.

00:52:55.280 So now the question for a lot of nations moving outside of this is who are we?

00:53:02.340 And I think that the United States was moving, you know, in a direction that was very dangerous.

00:53:07.480 Obviously, open borders, the constant need to import other groups in the attempt to undermine kind of the American identity as it was now so the left can continue to gain power.

00:53:17.240 You hope a lot of this stops with Trump.

00:53:19.260 But we also saw, in many ways, a shift, you know, a large – especially among Hispanics.

00:53:24.820 There's only a very small amount among Black men.

00:53:26.920 But Hispanic men, it was a big change when it came to supporting Trump.

00:53:30.440 And I can't say that I see that going away for the Republicans in the long term.

00:53:34.960 What do you think this means for the American identity as we hopefully attempt to reforge into something that – I know you're betting on civil war, so maybe this is a bad question.

00:53:45.300 But what do you think this might mean if we don't devolve into civil war?

00:53:49.900 America's already structured its identity several times as an example.

00:53:54.280 So in the colonial period, we were British.

00:53:56.320 The American Revolution was about the British government not giving us the rights that we were supposed to get given by God as Englishmen.

00:54:02.960 After the revolution, it was that we were a republic.

00:54:07.100 In the 1800s, we drew our identity once racial science became a better – a bigger field.

00:54:13.600 We drew our identity as being Nordic.

00:54:15.720 And then in the 20th century – or then we drew our identity as being a frontier nation, then as a diverse nation, and now a nation of colonialism and oppression.

00:54:25.320 And the colonialism-oppression narrative can't survive much longer because it's pure nihilism.

00:54:30.360 And the short answer is I don't know because I think the identity that we pull out of this struggle with will be inextricably linked with the context of said struggle.

00:54:43.740 Where whatever coalition emerges and wins, they will structure the identity based off what the unifying factor of their coalition is.

00:54:52.860 And so one of the things, for example, is I don't believe America will become a minority nation because Hispanics are two-thirds European ancestry.

00:55:01.760 So I think lighter-skinned Hispanics will be fused into being whites. 1.00

00:55:06.440 And in the same way Jews and Sicilians have become white, I think a lot of Latinos will enter that category.

00:55:12.860 Christianity is one of the better unifying factors in America where three-quarters of Americans are Christian.

00:55:20.540 And in other countries, like in Europe, you have a Muslim minority.

00:55:24.200 In China, you have all these ancient religions.

00:55:28.340 And America could get a unifying Christian identity, but that would require the church really stepping up its game. 0.68

00:55:34.640 Because religion's been in an incredibly rapid decline over the 21st century in America.

00:55:40.700 In 1950, less than 1% of Americans were agnostic.

00:55:44.480 I don't actually believe those numbers, but less than 1% said they weren't Christian.

00:55:49.620 Now it's like a quarter.

00:55:51.720 And most of that drop is in the 21st century.

00:55:55.500 And I would say Christianity is one of the better options. 0.99

00:55:58.960 But in order to turn that around, it would require such a massive ideological and intellectual change in the church that I can't count on that.

00:56:10.580 Yeah. Unfortunately, I think you're right about that.

00:56:13.220 I think you're starting to build a cadre of people who might push that direction.

00:56:19.100 Young men are becoming more religious than young women for the first time in a very long time.

00:56:26.100 And so that there's a possibility that you could see a generational shift.

00:56:30.760 But obviously that has to be kind of, that's got to be boiling.

00:56:35.100 You know, it's got to be working for a while.

00:56:36.840 It's not going to be coming anytime soon.

00:56:39.500 The church has also been feminized.

00:56:41.980 The church has been being feminized for the last 500 years. 0.84

00:56:45.180 And so it would be difficult to reverse the trend and it would require an active decision because one of the interesting things is that for most of modern history, atheism was seen as masculine because you were a strong man who's capable of facing the world without God.

00:57:02.040 And so the church became more and more feminized.

00:57:04.480 An interesting thing is that you can correlate the feminization of the church with the increase of sexual sins.

00:57:11.200 Because if you go back to the Middle Ages, sexual sins were relatively low.

00:57:14.540 But as the church gets more feminized, they increase in importance versus other sins like pride.

00:57:19.840 And you can see it also with the moving from the crusader ethic to the, I don't know, welfare ethic.

00:57:29.240 I don't know what they call our current Christian or pseudo-Christian ethic.

00:57:33.640 But for the first time, atheism is female-coded. 0.50

00:57:37.840 And I don't know.

00:57:41.100 I got to live through this stuff first.

00:57:44.280 Yeah, I hear you.

00:57:44.980 You talked about the state possibly being outmoded versus the network, that you might see a different type of formation.

00:57:56.460 Really, I don't think the state gets completely outmoded.

00:57:59.680 Someone's going to have a monopoly on violence and they'll be the state.

00:58:03.220 But they'll be more intermediate, I think, institutions.

00:58:07.140 It will not be as centralized as you were pointing out there, like in the Middle Ages.

00:58:12.160 And so I wonder, you know, previously those intermediate institutions, of course, were regional lords and these type of things.

00:58:19.360 Also significantly, the church, guilds, you know, these were all things that pushed back against the pressure.

00:58:25.880 And a lot of, you know, nationalists won't like this.

00:58:28.260 But the nation itself is really an artificial construction that sublimates a number of tribal and regional identities into itself.

00:58:39.320 It's a lot more modern than a lot of people would necessarily assent to.

00:58:47.080 But do you see a break of, you know, away from those more national identities?

00:58:53.760 And do you think that the intermediate institutions will be more technological in nature?

00:58:59.260 Do you see them being spread out geographically, but society centering on kind of more ideological connections or religious connections through technology?

00:59:10.340 Or do you think it has to, to some degree, return to a geographical concentration of people in order to really break away from this kind of Leviathan-style state?

00:59:22.360 The biggest variable I don't know about in the 21st century is population, because the variable I just stare in awe at is the birth rate.

00:59:34.040 Because with the current trajectory, the birth rate is crashing around the world more rapidly than any computer model could predict.

00:59:41.580 And we have pretty wide computer models.

00:59:43.840 So that's really scary.

00:59:45.840 And the reason I bring this up is that trends like this often don't last that long, because if a trend is that hard, it means it has to reset quickly.

00:59:55.020 However, if we can reset our birth rate, we're going to look more at, if we can reset the birth rate, it will be more like the fall of the Roman Republic to the rise of the Roman Empire, where you have a social transition, where the ultimate underlying social order remains.

01:00:12.020 If the birth rate keeps doing what it's doing, it's the fall of Rome, where under current trends, there will be four Koreans alive today at the end of this century for every 100 now. 0.99

01:00:23.740 And the number keeps crashing.

01:00:25.400 And that is the really scary variable I look at when I worry about the future.

01:00:31.840 And I would think that the network would establish a weird combination of local alignments.

01:00:41.480 Because keep in mind, with the network, with digital communication, you could move to Montana and be value aligned with lots of local people in Montana while you work a remote job based out of New York City.

01:00:55.880 And in the previous timeline, you would have had to move to New York City for that job.

01:00:59.660 But the internet allows geographic alignments of specific interests, while also allowing transnational alignments.

01:01:06.660 And you look at medieval Europe, that's more so how it was, where you have, medieval Europe was strange, where you have this hyper-local concentration, where Brittany, this area the size of, I don't know, Delaware or New Jersey, Brittany was its own ethnic cultural territory that was very specific.

01:01:26.040 But inside Brittany was the Catholic Church, which is transnational, merchant leagues, you had various marriages and dynastic alignments that spanned Europe.

01:01:36.600 That's my best guess.

01:01:38.540 But this is all in the timeline where the state doesn't win.

01:01:41.320 And I do not have that much interest in arguing over timelines where the state wins, because none of us are going to have this conversation if the state wins.

01:01:52.380 It's very true.

01:01:54.880 Should Leviathan win?

01:01:56.540 Yeah, nobody, nobody who wants to have these conversations will be able to.

01:02:01.320 So in this scenario, do you see a increase of complexity?

01:02:08.260 Or is it going to be is it going to be localized, depending?

01:02:11.060 I guess my question here, I should preface by saying a large amount of the infrastructure that people assume technologically exists around the globe is only really held up because a few first world nations expend a large amount of effort maintaining it.

01:02:28.920 Like you just would not have these cell networks and these other things existing in the vast majority of the world that now thinks of itself as much more technologically advanced.

01:02:37.740 If these kind of international players moved off the board or committed fewer of the resources to its maintenance.

01:02:43.920 Do you see most of that shrinking away and it's staying only, you know, technological innovation only being localized?

01:02:50.220 Or do you think that we've kind of hit a threshold and we'll maintain it through a certain level?

01:02:55.780 The science fiction novel Fitzpatrick's War has one of the best predictions of the 21st century I've seen.

01:03:01.700 And I find it kind of hilarious.

01:03:03.360 And this book was written around 1990, where the book is set in the 25th century about the rise of an American Alexander the Great.

01:03:10.060 But its backstory in the 21st century is fascinating, where in the 21st century, the world's population reaches a peak of 10 billion and then crashes down to 1 billion due to a combination of supply chain issues, genetically engineered plagues and war.

01:03:25.920 Where what happens is that America over the course of the 21st century, from roughly 2020 until 2070, America has a series of civil wars where the Democrats get taken over by predatory inner city ethnic minority gangs and the Republicans become controlled by intentional communities of rural rednecks who move away from the complete degeneracy of American society. 0.95

01:03:52.960 So the Republicans and the Democrats become captured by different demographics, and then the rednecks burn the cities down and America restarts its civilizational cycle, pulling from the land. 1.00

01:04:04.480 And they have a series of they have a they have an organization of historians who study the cycles of history to engineer their future.

01:04:12.640 The Muslims colonize Europe and the Chinese take over East Asia. 1.00

01:04:16.400 And I don't think it would happen exactly like that.

01:04:19.520 But one of the things I respect about the Fitzpatrick's war timeline is that it's a view of the future that's pretty in line with historic trends, because most science fiction involves the stripping away most science fiction is just the fantasy of the Leviathan.

01:04:34.120 You look at Star Trek, you look at Star Trek, it's the complete stripping away of culture and religion for this communist expansionist post-scarcity society.

01:04:48.380 And I'm sorry, what was the question you asked again?

01:04:52.140 But basically, do you think that we're going to see a overall decline in societal complexity or if you think that it'll maintain in certain areas but fall apart in others?

01:05:04.060 Oh, apologies.

01:05:04.940 Yeah, I was going to lead to that point.

01:05:06.420 And then I got waylaid.

01:05:07.340 It's all right.

01:05:07.720 Most of that was germane.

01:05:08.720 Yeah.

01:05:08.880 So one of the things when people look at the population growth charts is, for example, you would expect looking at the growth rate that Africa is the next civilizational superpower.

01:05:26.040 Because if current trends continue, there will be 4 billion Africans by the end of this century, and China will have less than half its current population.

01:05:33.380 However, that's not going to happen, because Africa is so dependent upon a series of technologies that the first and the second world produce, that if the first and the second world have civilizational breakdowns, which seems highly probable due to the demographics they have, Africa is dependent upon fertilizer, it's dependent upon international agricultural markets, it's dependent upon foreign electricity and cell phones. 0.88

01:05:59.820 One of the things people forget is Africa is actually one of the places in the world most dependent upon cell phones and the internet, because they don't have a competitor.

01:06:09.500 Because in America, you can use the postal service, you can use these pre-established communication methods that just don't exist in Africa. 0.99

01:06:18.560 And so ironically, especially since Africa is poorer, if there's a situation where China attacks Taiwan, or where there's a disruption of global grain markets, Africa will be one of the places hit the hardest, because the first world will spend all of its money to buy up food, thus prices in Africa would skyrocket.

01:06:37.480 Same thing with the, if China attacks Taiwan, and Taiwan can't make the cell phone chips for this anymore, the Americans will find a way to, we will eventually, even if it's incredibly painful, find a way to produce cell phones in America, in Africa, they'd be the ones hit the hardest.

01:06:57.060 Yeah, a lot of people don't think about the fact that because they parachuted so much of that technology in instead of it being grown out of infrastructure, previously existing that it's just going to vanish, it's going to dry up and blow away like, like roots without soil, if something like that happens.

01:07:16.380 We could probably do this all day, and hopefully we will again, but we have a large number of questions building up.

01:07:23.880 Do you mind taking a little time to answer the questions?

01:07:26.460 Do you mind if I run to the bathroom first, and then I'll answer them?

01:07:29.160 No, no, by all means, go ahead.

01:07:31.760 While he's heading that way, guys, let me remind you that, of course, if it's your first time, make sure that you go ahead and subscribe to this YouTube channel.

01:07:40.140 If you would like to get notifications, know when these streams go live, you need to click the bell, turn on notifications, because YouTube doesn't always tell you if you're subscribed to somebody, whether or not you are actually going to watch them.

01:07:53.020 Of course, you should head over to Rudyard's channel, What If Alt History.

01:07:58.500 Make sure that you subscribe to him on Twitter and on YouTube.

01:08:02.720 If you'd like to get these broadcasts as podcasts, then you need to subscribe to The Oren McIntyre Show on your favorite podcast platform.

01:08:11.380 If you do, you can leave a rating or review.

01:08:13.960 It really helps with the algorithm magic.

01:08:16.380 And he's mentioned my book a couple times, which is very kind of him.

01:08:20.100 That's actually how I ended up getting in contact with him, because a couple people said, hey, hey, he's mentioned your book on this show or that show.

01:08:25.860 So if you would like to pick up my book, The Total State, and read about a lot of these themes that we have been talking about, then you can take a look at that.

01:08:33.840 You can get it on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Books a Million.

01:08:37.460 You can pick it up at your own local bookstore if you'd like to avoid the machine as much as possible.

01:08:42.880 I know a lot of people have asked me about getting an audio version of the book, and I have been fighting for that.

01:08:49.900 And finally, it's going to be happening.

01:08:52.360 So hopefully by the end of the month, I will have news on an audio version for those who I know I do a lot of reading in the audiobook format.

01:09:01.520 So if you would like to do that, hopefully you'll have an opportunity to do that with The Total State soon.

01:09:06.200 All right, he is back.

01:09:07.960 Like I said, make sure to check out his channel before we move over here.

01:09:14.940 All right, let's see here.

01:09:17.020 Aloha Snack Bar says, the Tower Babble will fall, but the problem is how much blood will be spilled between now and then.

01:09:26.540 Same YouTuber named, Oren, keep doing what you're doing, my man.

01:09:30.060 Well, thank you very much, man.

01:09:30.980 I appreciate it.

01:09:32.720 By the way, or sorry, Cooper Weirdo says, by the way, Oren, there's a protest here in Portland.

01:09:38.240 Only 40 people showed up, but there was a protest.

01:09:41.560 Yeah, again, I have to say, it just feels the left was just devastatingly low energy here.

01:09:47.260 I mean, I know they knew Kamala Harris was a terrible candidate. 0.99

01:09:50.780 It's got to strip a lot out of your soul to kind of like dance, you know, for this woman who is just obviously inept. 1.00

01:09:57.660 But you think they would have had at least some fire left after Trump got elected, but just nothing, nothing at all.

01:10:04.200 There's an interesting question about why woke people buy so little stuff, where if you look at video games or movies that pander to woke demographics, and there are lots of wealthy woke people.

01:10:19.520 Look at how much funding the Democrats get.

01:10:21.820 They just don't consume content because I imagine the ideology they have is so psychologically taxing.

01:10:30.140 Yeah, I mean, I guess they consume like MSNBC and stuff, right?

01:10:35.580 But they're also burning out there.

01:10:38.820 Like, you could almost hear the, you know, kind of the bed death as they were on, you know, after the, you know, I got home after we did our stream on the Blaze, and I just had to watch a little bit of what was going on the left.

01:10:50.480 And it is just, man, like, I'd feel bad for them if they weren't evil.

01:10:53.700 Like, it was really, really sad, like how devastated they were.

01:10:59.040 Let's see here.

01:10:59.620 Jack says, what should the right be doing during this time where there is breathing room?

01:11:03.920 Well, Jack, I think breathing room is exactly the way to view.

01:11:06.880 So a lot of people are looking at Trump and they're saying, well, we're going to get in there and we're going to fix all this stuff.

01:11:10.660 And yeah, I hope he does.

01:11:11.780 Look, I'm, you know, if anybody has, you know, needs any, you know, information or any input on things to flip around, let me know.

01:11:21.860 But I think the big thing is that this is the time where people can maybe build organizations and infrastructure on the right without getting punished.

01:11:31.460 And that's really what matters.

01:11:32.760 Your risk of cancellation is at an all-time low right now.

01:11:36.060 The idea that you're going to get, you know, arrested or you're going to get debanked, like those things are, I think, those risks are seriously less than they were previously.

01:11:45.100 And so I think local organization is as much as possible what you should be doing in this moment, because your success rate is probably never going to be higher.

01:11:53.620 And your chance of being persecuted by the state as it exists is probably less than it's been in a long time.

01:12:01.320 You took the words out of my mouth.

01:12:02.980 I was going to say coalition building and looking for competency.

01:12:05.820 Yeah, competency is a huge one, right?

01:12:09.420 Like, you know, we've talked about the circulation of leech and Turchin and, you know, elite overproduction.

01:12:15.340 But a lot of this, you know, is a lot of guys who are who've been locked out of the system are building up in our places.

01:12:22.920 There's a lot of ability that is just being left on the cutting room floor because people were, you know, male or white or Christian or something else that was not in vogue when it comes to these other ideological organizations and their selection pressures.

01:12:37.740 And so this is a great time to to absorb a lot of that excess competency that's been expelled from those institutions and learn about organization.

01:12:47.540 Like you said, you have to build competency in that stuff.

01:12:49.360 If you can't, you know, you don't just walk into the gym and start benching 300, you don't just, you know, step into a room and organize 500 volunteers.

01:12:58.820 You need chains of command.

01:13:00.620 You need practice and authority.

01:13:02.040 You need to know how to fundraise.

01:13:03.660 You need to know how to build projects, do stuff that's not political.

01:13:07.300 You know, do things that help your local area, you know, reading groups like this kind of stuff that's going to up your level and is going to build trust so that when people need leadership, you're just the natural guy.

01:13:19.360 You have become an aristocrat of a sort through your action and through your ability to network rather than, you know, sitting around and like complaining about politics.

01:13:28.320 Like this is really where you, I think, build that ability.

01:13:33.380 See here.

01:13:34.320 Tiny Rick says, I don't think we can speak of the left as a monolith anymore.

01:13:38.600 A cat lady isn't the same as a bureaucrat who isn't the same as a college kid. 1.00

01:13:42.020 Like, well, of course, yeah, the left was never a monolith.

01:13:44.320 I've done several different videos talking about different factions in the left.

01:13:48.640 But what do you think about when it comes to dominant factions in the left?

01:13:53.940 Do you think that there's anyone who might ascend in this moment, take over, push people out?

01:13:58.860 You know, what do you think about the coalition on the left right now?

01:14:01.840 I really dislike the chain of argument I just saw there because it's the whole thing of there are individuals in a group and thus you can't look at group level differences. 0.93

01:14:12.740 And that's one of those arguments that got really popular in the 20th century that I think is it's a level of intelligence where you circle back to being silly. 0.69

01:14:21.920 Because look at France.

01:14:23.880 France historically has been an incredibly diverse country.

01:14:27.020 You have like dozens of different sub dialects of French.

01:14:29.960 You have sub elites.

01:14:31.360 But then when everything said and done, even though there were a dozen kinds of French, France still fought as a unified nation for war after war.

01:14:39.840 So when push came to shove, there still was this unified French group identity.

01:14:44.460 And my attitude here is that if something manifests in the world, it's real, where if, for example, if a society has a really big regulatory system, if the regulatory system is affecting the society, it's something worth studying as an independent whole.

01:15:03.760 Where the left clearly does act and there clearly is this unified force, because if there wasn't, we would be looking at a vastly different world.

01:15:14.180 And the only thing I've really seen split the left apart was the Palestine issue.

01:15:18.320 But even so, the leftist elite kept pushing while the they kept pushing the narrative forward, even while the pro-Hamas protesters split off into the same faction that said pro-Hamas protesters weren't actually able to create a schism inside the left that was able to operate on the group level.

01:15:39.140 I would say it depends on your resolution of analysis, right?

01:15:44.260 Like you could say Christianity works as a monolith in some areas, but obviously, like, it's also very, very different and very different.

01:15:52.900 So it depends on what what layer you're trying to analyze at.

01:15:57.320 I agree with you that the left manifests as a united front in many areas.

01:16:02.240 But then if you want to figure out what's going on with the Palestine-Israeli split, well, then you need to get into the more granular analysis.

01:16:08.460 Yes, things are what they are, where you should just see something for what it is and not let the level of analysis confuse you, where, sure, there are points where Protestants and Catholics work together.

01:16:20.440 Sure, there are points where they kill each other.

01:16:22.140 That's just how the world is.

01:16:24.160 Yeah.

01:16:25.200 Jacob Zindel says,

01:16:26.540 Cheers, been waiting for this crossover for a while now.

01:16:29.420 Long time What If Althist viewer noticed an increasing number of Burnham-isms and Yarvan-isms in Rudyard's material over the last two years.

01:16:39.320 We talked a little bit about Burnham.

01:16:40.960 Are you familiar with Curtis Yarvan?

01:16:43.440 Have you read any of his stuff?

01:16:44.860 So I know Curtis Yarvan, actually.

01:16:48.400 We've spoken a few times.

01:16:50.380 I'm not a monarchist.

01:16:51.920 I can tell he is very clearly intelligent, though, and I think his worldview is fundamentally not going to work in America.

01:17:00.580 I just think it's not, it's fundamentally at odds with our underlying value, where if we do become a monarchy, it would be in a completely different way.

01:17:08.060 But I think the things that I, the thing I admire Yarvan the most for is the cathedral and his caste system.

01:17:16.640 I think his American caste system is brilliant. 0.87

01:17:19.960 Yeah, I would agree that Curtis is a little too, he's a systems engineer, and so everything is a system for him.

01:17:26.460 Like you can just, the people are, you know, are fungible, and it's really just about what system you apply to them.

01:17:31.700 Also, I don't trust people from San Francisco when it comes to applying conservatism to the rest of the country.

01:17:39.280 Because one of my friends makes objective cultural metrics, and I don't really like the word objective, but he establishes a bunch of different, he makes AI models for anthropology, and he says stuff like, this is your society's honor culture.

01:17:52.040 This is how you express distance and relationships.

01:17:54.480 This stuff is super cool.

01:17:55.580 But, and he go to personabilities.com and deep read Dan, but in his system, my hometown in rural Pennsylvania is as culturally distant from Silicon Valley as Germany is from Poland.

01:18:08.060 And I think that's basically accurate, where Silicon Valley is this weird ecosystem that's so distantly removed from the general American public that they really struggle to find ways that will orient their worldview to someone from Tennessee or Florida or even upstate New York.

01:18:27.100 Yeah, sometimes he's, yeah, I had him on the show, and he said something to the effect of, well, if the, you know, the founders were here, they would, you know, sympathize with the progressives, but they would find, you know, Red America, you know, somehow more degenerate or something. 0.64

01:18:43.300 And I'm like, no, Curtis, I think the, I think the people chopping off the genitals of children would probably be the more shocking thing for the, for the founders.

01:18:50.520 Yeah. Yeah. If the founding fathers saw us, interestingly, the founding fathers predicted socialism in advance, because they look to the Greeks and the Romans and the Greco Roman civilization, they had their own iteration of socialism in their Spenglerian cycle. 0.93

01:19:05.260 And the founders knew that, which is why they were talking so much with the flaws of mob rule and of mob rule and democracy inequality. So they would see us as just this egalitarian, toxic force.

01:19:23.480 Well, they would also probably think that we were demonic. I think if you took any pre-industrial society and dropped this today, they would say, all of your art shows demons. You people are completely disconnected.

01:19:34.400 Yeah. You guys worship Satan. Yeah. I would not, I would not disagree with that. 0.88

01:19:39.880 Max Woodridge says, what does mole bug mean when he says neocons are really Trotskyites other than his claims, state department CIA have always been leftist. I mean, he, he means exactly what he's saying. Neocons were majority Trotskyites. Like even Bane, James Burnham was literally a Trotskyite that became a neoconservative. So I think that's just accurate. 0.98

01:20:01.020 I think his point, I think I know the piece you're, you're talking about. And I think ultimately his point is that all of these state department style institutions were basically created to be used by neocons or neocon ends.

01:20:15.040 And so attempting to like restaff them is like turning Boeing into a, I don't know, gun manufacturer or something like that's not what it's for. That's not what it does.

01:20:27.060 And so you don't just like change out some of the leadership and turn Boeing into like a municipal waste disposal company. Like much more of the, of the infrastructure and architecture was, was created specifically for the creation of an American empire.

01:20:42.420 You have to dismantle that stuff. You can't just be like, Oh, well, we'll, we'll swap it out and change the mission.

01:20:48.580 People forget Thomas Sowell was a, was a communist originally.

01:20:52.300 Correct.

01:20:52.480 So much of the rights, most brilliant thinkers are former communists, Thomas Sowell, James Burnham, probably half a dozen other people.

01:20:59.640 And, and I mean, it's one of the issues I discussed that modernity, our real religion is communism and even conservatives orient themselves in opposition to communism.

01:21:11.640 And until we can shatter that glass and stop cross-referencing anything, everything against the left, we're going to keep losing.

01:21:18.800 That's absolutely correct.

01:21:21.100 Polar Papist says, thank you for your work, Oren. You're the most incisive poster out there. Thank you very much, sir.

01:21:26.600 Assuming the country doesn't fall apart. Do you think a Trump presidency can do anything to affect the, uh, the way universities, uh, form the managerial class?

01:21:35.740 Yes, I think it can do plenty. Will it is a much bigger question.

01:21:39.680 They just laid out a proposed, uh, attempt to redo the accreditation process and what the accreditors would need to strip out.

01:21:48.940 I just saw this proposal before we went live, so I don't have all the details. Uh, I I'm not ready to break down the, it's viability.

01:21:55.560 It said that they would try to seize the, uh, the funding of universities that didn't comply with this. And this is how they would force it down.

01:22:02.920 I understand that. I would much rather see a complete undermining of the credentialing process through a two-step process.

01:22:10.340 One, you need to build certifications instead of degrees in the same way that tech builds this stuff. You, you go, you take a test. Now you're certified in this thing.

01:22:20.060 You didn't need to go to college. You didn't need to go through the, the whole process. You just have the certification and it's done. Second, you need to get rid of, uh, you need to get rid of Greggs versus Duke power and the 1990 civil rights inculcation of that, uh, or instantiation of that, uh, ruling.

01:22:37.300 Cause originally it was basically thrown out by the Supreme court. And then the Republicans, you know, froze it in, in, in time. People do not understand what disparate impact does, but among the many insane things that it does, it makes IQ or, uh, aptitude tests illegal for, uh, for employment.

01:22:54.920 And so that means that basically your university system is a highly ideological, highly ideological and very expensive replacement for a basic test that could take an hour. And so we need to get rid of those two things. If we actually want to reform this, I see what some of the, what the Trump administration is doing. I think it would be better than what we have, but it is insufficient. And it will, I think, end up going right back to Marxist leftism if they leave it the way it is.

01:23:19.960 Same problem that Yarvin explained with the state department. These institutions are left to seminaries with a thin veneer of education on them. And if you leave them the way they are, uh, even if you, you know, swap out some of the personnel, it's simply not going to be sufficient.

01:23:35.020 I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

01:23:37.720 My father is a board game from 1911 and the board game, it's the game of life, but it's corporate success. And so the purpose of the game is you start at this company as a mail boy,

01:23:47.860 and then you get gradually promoted until you're the CEO of the company. And that was just considered

01:23:52.860 completely normal a century ago. And we've completely done away with that due to the college system where

01:23:58.560 this is actually why America has the lowest social mobility of any period in our history. It's mostly due

01:24:03.860 to college where I think you can actually assess for someone's competency on a job. Once they're on the job,

01:24:10.640 the problem is that in large bureaucratic systems, especially with the civil rights law,

01:24:14.760 college is one of the few things that you can assess people for and discriminate by. And I think

01:24:20.240 college is, it's college plays into the civil rights, the civil rights issue. And I think the

01:24:30.420 civil rights act is one of the biggest issues conservatives face. And it's also really difficult

01:24:35.440 because trying to convince a boomer about how dangerous the civil rights act was is an uphill battle

01:24:41.880 because they've been propagandized their whole life that civil rights is the most important thing.

01:24:46.100 And I do support, like, I'm glad Jim Crow ended, but at the same time that you have to separate the 1.00

01:24:51.460 ending of Jim Crow and legal equality with civil rights, because, because people, and Richard Hanania

01:24:59.200 covered this really well, where almost all of wokeness is downstream of the civil rights act,

01:25:04.300 where it was pushed by the government in the silliest way possible. Because keep in mind,

01:25:09.860 the federal bureaucracy determines how laws get implemented. And as an example of this,

01:25:15.640 we use national level race stats on a regional level, which is complete madness, where most of

01:25:22.320 Pennsylvania is 95% white, you have Philly and Pittsburgh that are plurality black. But if you're 0.98

01:25:28.860 trying to balance out national racial stats in a place like, I don't know, Lancaster, Pennsylvania,

01:25:34.380 it's going to horribly backfire, because there aren't the black or the Latino or the Asian population

01:25:39.940 to reach the national level equilibria. And what I said, a big reason why the left lost this last

01:25:47.360 election is it was Californians and New Yorkers trying to push their racial demographics onto the

01:25:52.800 rest of the country. While the Rust Belt and the Sun Belt, or the two swing areas, are both of their

01:25:59.220 major voting populations are disproportionately white. And so that's not going to work. And

01:26:04.300 unless we redo the civil rights act, we're going to be stuck in this whole DEI system where you can be 0.59

01:26:10.600 prosecuted for if your company, and there's some really ridiculous examples where I think Tesla,

01:26:17.620 a guy was awarded either 10s or hundreds of millions of dollars, because he potentially heard racial slurs in

01:26:24.060 the bathroom, something like that. And he didn't even have proof for it. So keep in mind, the people

01:26:29.220 enforcing these laws are completely unhinged. And that's why a rule that seemed sensible at the time

01:26:35.760 resulted in complete madness.

01:26:38.020 Yeah, there's a gas station chain that had a federal lawsuit against them that they had to settle

01:26:44.100 because they were using criminal background checks. And this disproportionately screens out African

01:26:50.620 Americans. You know, like, you cannot have a functional society with this understanding of

01:26:57.060 the world. But that's just where we are. Let's see here. Tiny Rick said, if the left does share one

01:27:03.020 single underlying characteristic or trait, assuming an assumption about the world, what do you think it

01:27:07.600 is? I would say that it is a blank slate. It's the ability to reorder, to re-engineer people from the

01:27:15.320 top down. But I think, honestly, I think the real binding coalition of the left is actually just

01:27:21.340 hatred of white Christian males. Like that, if you want to understand what, you know, how do you get

01:27:28.360 a conservative Muslim and a pro-trans kids activist in the same political party? There's one thing, 0.61

01:27:34.760 you know, that's one thing that they recognize is, you know, their, their, you know, kind of unifying

01:27:40.680 enemy. But exactly what you said, you took the words out of my mouth. Sage here says, I'll bet

01:27:47.820 $10,000 with Rudy that no civil war will happen the next 10 years. How many adults have ever been

01:27:53.400 in a fistfight? Violence just comes very unnaturally to postmodern people. And this is something I hear

01:27:58.640 from a lot, including Curtis Yarvin. We can't go to war because people are just too soft. Like men

01:28:03.720 don't even know how to fight at this point. I'm from Philly. If you look at a guy the wrong way,

01:28:08.540 you'll get beaten up in that city. It's, uh, I don't know. I feel like there's some truth to

01:28:15.420 this. Like I've, like I have been, you know, because I did like, you know, jujitsu and, and,

01:28:20.220 and Muay Thai a little bit. Like I, I, you know, I've done a lot of sparring, but I've been in like

01:28:24.880 two fistfights in real life, my entire life. And that puts me in, I think the minority, you know,

01:28:30.840 for most guys I know, but that also, to be fair, that could also be a function of like, kind of

01:28:35.500 my insulated, you know, socioeconomic situation. Maybe most people I know just haven't been in

01:28:40.820 fights because of that, you know, but I don't know. This is what I'd say is this argument's

01:28:45.140 often used before previous historic conflicts where before world war one, the popular argument

01:28:51.160 by a thinker named angel, and this was the global consensus was that you couldn't have war anymore

01:28:56.220 due to international trade because international trade made it too unprofitable because you'd make

01:29:03.500 more money through peace. But the reality is the more trade connections you have, the more likely

01:29:07.760 you are to have war because it creates more potentialities for friction. Or before the

01:29:14.160 English civil war, people use this exact same argument because it had been 150 years since

01:29:19.820 England had had a land war. And so everyone said the English have grown too soft to fight.

01:29:24.760 And you could say this for a bunch of different conflicts. And what I would say is we all remember

01:29:30.280 COVID where we all submitted to the government overnight. And so if there's a civil war, what

01:29:35.180 will happen is that the local police officer knocks on your front door and he said, we want your son

01:29:40.320 and you can't tell him no. And then, and then it's in a place where conscription puts people

01:29:48.700 when, when people, I apologize for the digression here, but when people think of war, they think

01:29:55.460 mass famine, they think complete social breakdown. No, for most of you watching, if there's a war,

01:30:01.880 you will still work your job. You'll still take care of your kids. You'll still watch Netflix and

01:30:06.280 YouTube for a small group of young men who get conscripted. That's going to happen to them.

01:30:11.540 But if you look at Syria or Ukraine or those countries, life continues as normal. And once the 0.97

01:30:17.440 war starts, you'll just adjust to it. And you'll think, damn, there was a time before DC got shelled into 0.90

01:30:23.140 oblivion. There was a time before the great New Mexican famine. We think of how rapidly we 0.98

01:30:29.400 adjusted to COVID, which was this insane sci-fi dystopia where you weren't allowed to leave your

01:30:34.800 house to go grocery shopping at certain times. Yeah. I was going to say, I don't know what the

01:30:39.300 fist fight ratio in Ukraine was, but that really hasn't stopped young men from having to go fight.

01:30:44.560 And you're exactly right to point out, you know, we've been so removed from that reality,

01:30:49.220 especially in the United States for a long time that we just don't recognize that really this is,

01:30:54.360 you know, a game for young, for men between like 18 and, you know, 35 to 40. And yet it determines

01:31:02.180 the outcome of your entire society, which is like most people understood why that demographic was

01:31:06.680 so specifically important in any given scenario. But now we've, you know, kind of feminized and made

01:31:12.720 it to the point where we don't recognize that as being a possibility. But just because

01:31:17.360 your society is kind of, uh, the aberration doesn't mean that all of a sudden the possibility

01:31:23.600 has disappeared. Uh, that demographic, that demographic is my audience. So I apologize to

01:31:29.520 you guys. They are mostly my audience as well. It's mine. Mine's mainly like 25 to 40, somewhere in

01:31:36.240 there. Uh, philosophical zombie Hunter says, uh, will the engineering tech class beat the managerial

01:31:42.720 class Elon versus the bureaucrat, the state bureaucracy. Again, that is the question. And

01:31:47.380 I think the answer right now is they are winning that fight. Uh, but it is still quite a fight.

01:31:52.300 Uh, so, uh, you know, I think the only thing you can really do at this point is wait and see on that

01:31:56.800 one. Stay tuned and buy some popcorn. Exactly. Uh, Matt crater says, I hear orange point about nobody

01:32:05.020 doing anything during COVID maybe preconditions were in place. If population is moved to action by a

01:32:10.640 centralized force figure, who knows what else could happen in a short period. And yeah, to some

01:32:16.060 extent, you're exactly right. That there was not a centralized figure though. Again, Trump for many

01:32:21.800 people could have been that figure, but I don't think Trump wanted to be in the Rubicon, uh, really.

01:32:26.840 And so, uh, I think that you just, you, this, this is, um, you know, I, we didn't get into this again.

01:32:33.240 It could be a whole nother episode. Uh, but whether you're a trends and forces guy or a great man of

01:32:37.760 history guy, I think the answer is obviously both. We had the trends and forces necessary.

01:32:42.580 We did not have the great man. Uh, and so therefore nothing happened, but someday you

01:32:46.900 will have the trends of forces and the great man, and then things can happen all at once.

01:32:52.060 Yes. What I would say is that people can only do things if there is a, there needs to be a word.

01:32:58.220 And I don't know what this word is yet, but a way to push power, a vehicle of power,

01:33:02.800 where for example, back in the Roman empire, slaves were treated completely inhumanly. You had the

01:33:09.400 gladiatorial games, all that stuff, because there was no vehicle against that. And the Catholic church 0.95

01:33:14.780 developed as a vehicle to push for their interests because things got bad enough. And people don't

01:33:20.180 seem to realize that if there is not an active institution to push against a social trend,

01:33:25.140 the trend will continue. And this is even more exacerbated with black, a black swan is a randomized 1.00

01:33:32.620 event. You can't predict and authors for decades predicted that SARS would come back, but when it

01:33:39.000 did and no one was ready. And so we immediately defaulted onto one of the worst possible options

01:33:44.340 because we were panicking. We didn't have a pre-established phone book for if this happened.

01:33:49.860 Yeah. Gaitano Mosca actually has a word for this. It's political formula. Uh, if you haven't read the

01:33:54.680 ruling class, I would highly recommend it. It's a, uh, a absolutely formative book. Um, let's see here.

01:34:02.000 Uh, TK says, read your read, uh, Unqualified Reservations by Yarvin. Skeptical Ways has a great

01:34:08.500 audio version available. Yeah. Shout out to Skeptical Ways, my favorite robot, uh, making, uh, audiobooks

01:34:14.800 available on YouTube. Uh, also, uh, uh, Passage, uh, publishing has, uh, now has a unified volume

01:34:22.960 for people who want to read it. Uh, Cyber Chud says, excellent stream. Hope Rudyard can come back

01:34:28.160 sometime. Yes. Been having a lot of fun and I definitely hope we can do this again.

01:34:32.740 Sure thing. Uh, Wellesley Bravo says, uh, what do you make of Lindsay's distrust of you and the

01:34:38.860 woke right? He suspects you're a leftist working to subvert the right and in Liberty. Yes. Uh, he also

01:34:44.840 said, I am a angel summoner, uh, as a Southern Baptist working, uh, with the Catholic church and

01:34:51.700 the Vatican to undermine the United States. So James, uh, is deep into a take bunker. Uh, you know,

01:34:58.380 I hope he's okay. Uh, I, I hope he is, he, you know, he got to take the meds on time. It's really

01:35:04.800 important. Uh, but I mean, I've made entire videos responding to James. If you need to check those out,

01:35:11.740 I've, I've talked about the woke, right thing. Like, so I don't want to rehash it all here.

01:35:15.820 Um, it's mostly stupid. Uh, but if you would like to get a good laugh as I go through it, 0.96

01:35:19.520 uh, those, those streams are out there for you. I watched that video you did and I was sad to see

01:35:25.200 it because I liked James's early work on both critical theory and Gnosticism. And then I saw

01:35:30.540 that and I thought this is the most deranged thing ever because yeah, unfortunately that's the

01:35:35.580 case for a lot of people. Yeah. Because I'm thinking in what timeline is Oren

01:35:41.420 McIntyre managing, managing this entire enormous conspiracy. And also why are you worshiping an

01:35:48.100 ancient Babylonian God? I've never heard of. It's just, that was my favorite. Yeah. 0.97

01:35:54.040 Yeah. Yeah. Wielding the power of ancient Babylonian gods, which I believe is the plot

01:35:59.840 to ghostbusters. Um, so perhaps I am, uh, I am just reliving that movie. Uh, let's see here. Uh,

01:36:06.720 Matt bell says come April, if is woke, put away or rampant asking for a friend still got characters

01:36:13.940 left. La la la Christ is King. La la la. Yes. Uh, my debate with academic agent will only continue

01:36:20.140 until, uh, we finally have some kind of closure in, uh, may of next year here, uh, trying to get

01:36:26.120 through these as fast as possible guys. So sorry, just stay with me. Uh, Macro here says,

01:36:30.920 Oren, I think you once said that Trump will buy the current regime more time. Doesn't sound like

01:36:36.160 the most plausible outcome of his presidency. Uh, well, no. Well, I mean in the sense, so again,

01:36:43.460 I don't want to rehash this, uh, in its entirety cause I've, I've spoken at length short version.

01:36:48.580 You have to ask is everything 40 chess or can the regime lose? Did Trump have to be selected by power

01:36:56.720 and was Kamala Harris specifically elevated for the purpose of losing to Trump so that he could 0.90

01:37:02.220 contain wokeness or whatever, or can there be a genuine loss of the left because they overreached, 0.98

01:37:08.140 they were sloppy, they were lazy, they were inept, they grew, uh, decadent and they made mistakes. 0.93

01:37:14.020 I think it's the second one. And if you want to buy into the idea that power is perfect all the time 0.97

01:37:20.220 and never loses. And so Trump's only purpose can be to buy the regime more time than okay, I guess.

01:37:26.120 Uh, but I, I, I think that's just a deterministic excuse for losing and never finding a way to win,

01:37:31.660 but yeah, it's, I mean, let's not get into schizophrenia here where I've had people say

01:37:39.240 that I'm a tool of the regime and that I'm paid off by various interests and I can with 100%

01:37:44.360 assurity say that I am not. And so when you know that happens to you, you know, that people are

01:37:50.300 overcorrecting and my thing with, I mean, if the establishment was going to do that, they'd use

01:37:57.780 Romney. There's no chance they use Trump. They would use some country club Republican. It would,

01:38:03.180 what I like to say is that the country that these people think exists is called Canada or the UK.

01:38:08.460 And clearly we are not that country because in Canada or the UK, it is a leftist uniparty

01:38:13.520 where they use their Tory parties as a way to basically keep the managerial consensus.

01:38:20.360 And I think that's been true to a decent extent with the GOP, but I think the reason that everyone

01:38:25.680 and their mother lost their mind on the left and the right with Trump is he genuinely shattered that

01:38:30.740 dynamic in a way that just did not exist in other countries.

01:38:33.740 Out of curiosity, have you ever read The Revolt of the Elites by Christopher Lash?

01:38:38.860 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I've read several.

01:38:40.400 That book's brilliant.

01:38:41.880 It really, it really stuck with me because I saw, I saw the entire old consensus. And the reason I

01:38:50.340 broke out of this is I'm from the Rust Belt. And so I saw a place where the old consensus really

01:38:55.400 screwed over everyone with zero remorse. And it's crazy to see how much the old GOP bought into that

01:39:02.360 order, which was selection through university. I apologize. I'm taking up a lot of time where you

01:39:06.900 want to go quickly, but selection through the university system, globalization, immigration,

01:39:13.280 cultural leftist victory, a secular ruling class, increased inequality, increased class divisions,

01:39:20.260 breakdown of ethnic identity. This is what the old GOP and the left agreed on. 0.89

01:39:24.520 And you have to like shatter the glass and break out of that system because once you buy into any one of

01:39:31.000 those given assumptions, they gradually chew all of you up.

01:39:34.940 Yes. Nope. I think that's exactly right. And I think that's a lot of what a lot of the people

01:39:39.900 who are crying about the woke right and stuff are really talking about is that they say, well,

01:39:43.780 I bought into a couple of these assumptions. And so there's just no way we can go back. You know,

01:39:48.480 our Reno calls us the return of the strong gods, which I think is a really, a really good way to,

01:39:53.600 to kind of phrase that.

01:39:54.640 Yeah. And on the, I don't know if I'm part of the woke right and Lindsay system, but because I'm not

01:40:03.840 worshiping a Babylonian God, I'm not, uh, uh, that's what you would say if you were part of

01:40:09.420 our definitely not conspiracy. Don't do the secret handshake on camera, buddy. Okay. Sorry.

01:40:14.480 But having looked across this system, there, there is no conspiracy because there's no shared idea.

01:40:21.820 When I run into people in this space, I have no idea if you're a Christian fundamentalist. I have

01:40:25.880 no idea if you're a classical liberal. I don't know if you follow a voga or fascism. If this was

01:40:31.320 really a conspiracy, we would have some degree of ideological unity, but we don't.

01:40:36.360 It seems pretty obvious, but you know, you're not the guy with 19 connections on a board with

01:40:41.060 strings. So, uh, what, what can we do? Jeff green says ultimately only Christ can fix what man has

01:40:47.160 screwed up. Man cannot solve what man has caused regardless of the occasional reprieve things will

01:40:53.180 wax, uh, worse and worse. Uh, again, uh, I, I am certainly one, uh, that believes ultimately God's

01:41:01.620 will is what works its way through, uh, history. Uh, but I'm not so big on the, well, then just don't

01:41:08.780 bother, uh, end of this. Uh, you know, that, that was never, uh, the message of the church

01:41:14.180 fathers. It was certainly not the message of, uh, leaders of Christendom. And I don't think it

01:41:19.140 should be your takeaway now. Uh, ultimately Christ is King and you know, that is what is most important

01:41:25.840 and his will will be made perfect. Uh, but at, at the moment, uh, we have to do what we can in our

01:41:31.940 place, uh, with the tools we have been given. Uh, there's quite a few parables. One could cite,

01:41:36.280 you know, books like Luke about exactly this kind of thing. Dark age mindset. Exactly. Dark age

01:41:44.020 mindset is avoid the world and be in a monastery. I'm sorry. Dark age mindset is avoid the world and 0.99

01:41:50.380 hide in a monastery. Yeah. Benedict option to some extent there. Uh, courts, uh, ZZ seven says, uh,

01:41:58.500 means guys like me have an advantage. Those who have fought will beat those who haven't, you know,

01:42:04.400 there's, there's, uh, an impulse that I have to say, I don't like on the right, which is there are

01:42:09.640 a number of people who will kind of crap on soldiers or lion type people saying, oh, well,

01:42:16.140 you've served the regime police, these kinds of things. And it's like, yeah, I mean, there are

01:42:20.160 plenty of guys who will just kind of follow whatever for a paycheck, but you know, guys who

01:42:24.840 have really gone out there and sacrificed are usually very right wing. And even if they don't

01:42:30.960 have a narrative structure, they don't have a political formula that immediately allows them

01:42:34.360 to kind of back and protect the people that they actually value when push comes to shove,

01:42:39.380 you really want these people on your side. And so I think a lot of people wildly undervalue on the

01:42:45.660 right, like a martial competence and experience. Uh, and maybe this is just cause I grew up on military

01:42:51.620 bases and a lot of my friends, uh, were, were active service members or still are. Uh, but this is

01:42:56.620 something I have the highest respect for and I value, and I think, uh, people need to put far

01:43:01.820 more, um, value in when they're having discussions about this kind of stuff, because I, you know,

01:43:07.520 that kind of experience, that kind of training, that kind of leadership, uh, is, is critical in

01:43:13.040 times that are fraught with danger. And, uh, if you think you're moving anywhere near those,

01:43:18.240 uh, those are friends you should have, and those are friends you should keep. And those are friends,

01:43:21.420 uh, that you should organize, uh, peaceably, uh, in non-political senses with, uh, but, uh, those are

01:43:28.120 just my thoughts on that one. I briefly worked as a security company. And one of the lessons I learned

01:43:33.780 from that is that a person with even the slightest amount of training can completely destroy a person

01:43:39.300 who does it. And that's even more exacerbated with the military, where if you are going to fight

01:43:44.900 someone who has military training, you should just give up because their level of skill is so much

01:43:49.680 vastly higher than yours. Um, and so whether or not the side that wins this war is going to be the

01:43:56.260 side who has the trained men. Secondarily, the purity spiraling is the thing that's going to

01:44:01.960 kill the right if we can't fix it. And of course, I don't want us all to be neocons, but there is

01:44:07.220 balance. And so inside all of us is a normie because we were all former normies. And no matter how

01:44:13.540 far we leave, we leave that we still have to, we all started out with as being normies. And so we have

01:44:19.400 to have a certain degree of humility and grace with new people. Because if we spiral into just

01:44:25.340 calling everyone who disagrees with us idiots, we're going to lose because we won't be able to 1.00

01:44:29.720 attract new followers. We'll attract the worst kind of people, the reasonable people. Keep in mind, the 1.00

01:44:34.700 people with the skills, the engineers, the leaders, the people who know things about the world, the

01:44:40.300 soldiers, they're people who want to get stuff done. And if we stop being the group of people who get

01:44:45.400 stuff done because we do too much purity spiraling, we're going to lose.

01:44:49.900 All right, sir, we have gotten through all of our super chats. So if people have somehow not heard

01:44:55.400 of your channel and would like to find it, or is there anything else you want to direct people to

01:44:59.800 before we leave? No, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

01:45:04.240 Oh, absolutely. No, thank you for coming on. And of course, guys, if it's your first time here,

01:45:08.420 make sure you subscribe, YouTube channel, make sure that you go ahead and turn on the notifications.

01:45:13.060 And if you would like to get the broadcast as podcast, you need to subscribe over at the podcast

01:45:18.940 on Apple, iTunes, Spotify, all those places. Thank you everybody for watching. And as always,

01:45:24.560 I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - November 12, 2024

Leviathan Is Inevitable ｜ Guest： Whatifalthist ｜ 11⧸11⧸24

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