The Auron MacIntyre Show - Machiavelli： Why It's Better to Be Feared Than Loved ｜ 5⧸1⧸26

00:00:00.500 Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I am Oren McIntyre.

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00:00:38.820 We are continuing our series on Machiavelli today.

00:00:43.300 We've been reading through The Prince,

00:00:45.320 and as we do so, I want to remind you that, of course,

00:00:49.000 the entire series is in the playlist on YouTube.

00:00:53.780 So if you've missed any of these previous episodes

00:00:55.900 and you want to get the context for what is going on,

00:00:58.680 of course, you can go ahead and go to that playlist on YouTube. But I think each of these

00:01:04.700 episodes also stands relatively well on its own. Everything is, of course, pretty useful. So I

00:01:11.520 think that you can watch them individually. But of course, if you want that full context,

00:01:15.300 you want to go through the entirety of The Prince, we are working our way through it as we go.

00:01:20.060 Today, we are discussing what is probably Machiavelli's most famous assertion,

00:01:26.700 The thing he's quoted on the most, if you went to high school or college and learned about Machiavelli, you read some textbook and they went over briefly something about Machiavelli, you probably read this passage. This is it. If there was anything you read from him, if there's anything that they talked about, if there's anything that they mentioned about Machiavelli, it is this famous discussion on whether it is better to be feared or loved.

00:01:53.380 So obviously this is something that has a lot of staying power.

00:01:56.460 So we're going to go ahead and begin on chapter 17 here.

00:02:00.360 Is it better to be feared or loved as a ruler?

00:02:04.400 All right.

00:02:05.720 Coming now to the items in the list of qualities on page 33,

00:02:10.520 I say that every prince should want to be regarded as merciful and not cruel,

00:02:15.880 but he should be careful not to mismanage his mercy.

00:02:19.700 Caesar Borgia was considered cruel,

00:02:21.500 but his cruelty restored order in Romania, unified it, and restored it to peace and loyalty.

00:02:27.800 When you come to think about it, you'll see him as being much more truly merciful than the Florentines,

00:02:33.680 who, to avoid a reputation of cruelty, allowed Pistoia to be destroyed.

00:02:38.420 So first off, very important insight here.

00:02:41.380 People get confused when it comes to the idea of whether or not a ruler should use force in some way,

00:02:50.000 whether they should exercise power. They say, oh, well, if you go ahead and take this action,

00:02:55.200 you'll look cruel. You'll look like someone that we don't want to involve ourselves with.

00:02:59.320 But ultimately, that's not the case because there are many scenarios in which the ruler must do

00:03:05.280 something that seems painful, that seems in some way harmful, but will ultimately save you

00:03:10.760 pain down the road. Of course, anybody who's familiar with parenting understands this principle.

00:03:16.600 Yes, you don't want to discipline your child.

00:03:18.920 You don't want to spake them or put them in the corner or take away their toy.

00:03:22.080 You don't like how that makes you feel.

00:03:24.220 But ultimately, if you don't discipline them now and they don't learn the lesson now, you aren't doing them any favors because later on, they will pay a cost for not understanding that, right?

00:03:36.520 For not learning the lesson, for not fixing the behavior, they're going to pay a cost.

00:03:43.400 Now, this isn't always the direct case with the government.

00:03:45.840 the government is always isn't always doing like what a loving father should but ideally that is

00:03:51.440 really the relationship that that that a a government would care that ruler especially

00:03:56.580 king remember he's talking about monarchies here he has an entire different book about republics

00:04:01.460 but in a monarchy scenario you really want a king that even if you don't favor monarchies

00:04:06.080 if you're in a monarchy scenario you want a king that ultimately favors the people that loves the

00:04:11.480 people and treats them like their children. And so, yes, it might be cruel in the moment to do

00:04:16.520 something that the average person doesn't like. In fact, you might have to do something really

00:04:21.180 bad. You might have to even kill some people. You might have to even involve yourself in some 1.00

00:04:26.800 pretty harsh behavior in order to stop something that will be worse down the road. But it's good

00:04:32.940 to do that now. So, for instance, let's think about the Trump administration and its deportations,

00:04:39.700 Right. A lot of people liked the idea of mass deportations. But then when we actually saw them put into place, some people started to waver. They said, oh, oh, well, I knew I voted for mass deportations, but not this. I didn't expect them to like, you know, defend themselves if some woman tried to run them over. I didn't expect them to like break up families. I didn't expect them to do this or that.

00:05:01.740 and yes in the moment the the people are fickle right they see that violence and they think maybe

00:05:08.120 that's cruelty maybe maybe my government is being cruel and doing something cruel but ultimately

00:05:12.880 you have to do that thing that's unpopular and might even seem cruel to some people because 0.93

00:05:17.280 long term you're saving the country by deporting all of these illegals you're creating jobs you're 0.93

00:05:22.600 opening up housing you are making sure that dangerous criminals are taken off the street 0.91

00:05:26.840 you're preventing human trafficking and so while it seems cruel in the moment when the crowd might

00:05:33.620 view that as cruel ultimately it's actually for the better you're actually helping people

00:05:39.460 because you're taking that action but again that's something that a lot of people don't

00:05:43.860 think about they don't think about you know that that's why it's hard to be the ruler that's why

00:05:48.360 it's often unpopular to be the ruler everyone thinks they want to be the ruler but they don't

00:05:53.380 want to be seen as cruel. And that's the worst thing. That's the worst thing you can be, is an

00:05:59.020 ineffective ruler who's worried about public opinion so much that it blinds you to doing the

00:06:05.560 right thing. Now, you will have to care about public opinion, and Machiavelli will get into

00:06:09.140 that in this passage. He's not telling you not to care what people think about you actually at all,

00:06:13.300 but he is saying you have to understand when it's worth taking the reputational hit, when it's worth

00:06:18.660 looking like you're cruel as long as the prince keeps his mind uh keeps his subjects united and

00:06:24.940 loyal therefore he ought to uh he ought to mind being uh criticized as cruel because with very

00:06:32.080 little few examples of punitive severity he will be showing more real mercy than those who are

00:06:38.720 too lenient allowing a breakdown of law and order that leads to murders or robbery why

00:06:44.080 because such breakdowns harm those communities whereas a prince's death sentence affects only

00:06:49.940 one person at a time a new prince is especially strongly bound to get a reputation for cruelty

00:06:55.500 just because new stages are full of danger but he shouldn't be too quick in believing that he is

00:07:02.660 told what he is told and acting on it and he mustn't be afraid of his own shadow as they say

00:07:08.940 Rather, he should moderate his conduct with prudence and humanity, not being confident to the point of rashness or suspicious to the point of being intolerable.

00:07:20.160 A question arises out of this, namely, is it better to be loved than feared or better to be feared than love?

00:07:27.380 Well, one would like to be both, but it's difficult for one person to be both feared and loved.

00:07:35.860 When a choice has to be made, it's safer to be feared.

00:07:38.280 The reason for this is, in fact, about men in general. 0.99

00:07:42.060 They're ungrateful, fickle, deceptive, cowardly, and greedy.

00:07:45.820 As long as you are doing them good, they are entirely yours. 0.97

00:07:50.340 They'll offer you their blood, their property, their lives, and children,

00:07:54.240 as long as there is no immediate prospect of their having to make good on these offerings.

00:07:59.860 But when that changes, they'll turn against you.

00:08:02.800 and the prince who relies on their promises doesn't take other and doesn't take other

00:08:07.320 precautions is ruin all right so is it better to be feared or loved Machiavelli makes it very clear

00:08:12.800 you already knew this one right spoiler alert he says it's better to be feared because people

00:08:18.280 are bad people are bad people are fickle they're weak they're greedy and they'll change their mind

00:08:24.840 when you're when you're doing well for them when they're benefiting from your rule when they feel

00:08:29.560 like it's not going to really cost them anything, they'll tell you everything. Oh, I'd die for you.

00:08:34.100 I'd do anything. I'd go anywhere. I'd do whatever has to be done. But then when it's actually time

00:08:42.440 for them to pay that cost, when you're in trouble or when you have to do something unpopular or when

00:08:48.300 you have to make a quick decision or when they have to actually sacrifice something, all of a

00:08:54.360 sudden those promises disappear. And so you'd rather have someone fear disappointing you

00:08:59.940 rather than say, I love you, I love you, I love you. And then they immediately betray you the

00:09:05.380 minute that it's advantageous to them. Friendships that are bought rather than acquired through

00:09:11.620 greatness or nobility of mind may indeed be earned, bought, and paid for, but they aren't

00:09:17.760 secured and can't be relied on in time of need. Again, very important, right? That which was bought

00:09:23.720 with money is usually very thin.

00:09:27.000 And that's a really interesting moment to think about

00:09:29.960 because today our elite class

00:09:33.620 is almost entirely financial, right?

00:09:36.000 Donald Trump's a billionaire.

00:09:38.100 Even if you aren't a billionaire,

00:09:39.260 when you go into the White House,

00:09:40.760 you come out a billionaire like Barack Obama.

00:09:44.080 Our leaders are not lions. 0.98

00:09:46.760 They're foxes.

00:09:47.860 We'll get to more of that in a second.

00:09:50.260 And so our leaders rule through money.

00:09:53.720 And Machiavelli, one of the big themes of the prince, is that the loyalty bought with money is useless.

00:10:01.220 He warns against mercenaries repeatedly throughout all of his work because he says they're going to betray you.

00:10:07.720 They'll tell you all kinds of great stuff.

00:10:09.940 They'll say they'll fight for you when you don't really need them.

00:10:11.960 But the minute it's actually go time, the minute you really have your back up against the wall, the minute that things are really dicey, they're out of there.

00:10:20.020 And so his main point over and over again is be worried about loyalties bought with money.

00:10:27.100 It's not that money doesn't matter.

00:10:28.400 He says, yeah, you can buy loyalty with money, but it's fleeting and they will leave.

00:10:32.780 You need to win your loyalty through greatness, through honor, through exceptional work, right?

00:10:38.620 Like nobility.

00:10:39.600 That's what wins you true loyalty.

00:10:42.680 Well, today we've kind of gotten rid of all that, right?

00:10:45.300 We, in fact, people will insult you if you want your leaders to be noble, if you want your leaders to do great deeds.

00:10:52.800 They'll say, oh, well, what are you thinking?

00:10:54.160 It's just some guys like a CEO, right?

00:10:56.540 This is always kind of the problem with Curtis Yarvin's theory, though he's right about many things.

00:11:01.180 When you just describe the leader as a CEO, you're losing something.

00:11:05.200 And that's always Curtis's problem.

00:11:06.500 He's ultimately a materialist.

00:11:07.960 He's ultimately someone who doesn't truly believe in the divine and the transcendent.

00:11:12.220 And so he has a very difficult time envisioning, even though his preferred version of government is a monarchy, he can't even imagine a world where we actually invest in a monarch in this way.

00:11:25.740 And this is interesting because if you think about all of our current political elites being kind of just wealthy, right, like their entire powers based on their ability to either have wealth or distribute someone else's wealth and has very little to do with fighting, right?

00:11:42.720 Like, how many times are you actually seeing people talking about, oh, well, we should elect this guy because he was exceptionally brave, Trump a little bit after the assassination, Tim.

00:11:50.980 But for the most part, you know, you're not you're not hearing someone say, well, we should elect this guy because of his military service or because, you know, his noble actions.

00:11:59.020 It's almost always because he's achieved something financially.

00:12:02.360 and that means that we have like very flighty political alliances that ultimately our politicians

00:12:11.520 don't command respect they don't uh command any level of nobility and we we often think of

00:12:18.160 ourselves better for doing that like we think that because we stripped out titles of nobility and

00:12:22.920 social rank and all these things like we're more advanced people like of course i don't worship a

00:12:26.720 politician of course i don't think they're uh you know great of course i don't you know ultimately

00:12:30.920 care about their you know behavior or whatever because like they're just functionaries they're

00:12:36.180 just like guys i plug it plug in well guess what if you think about them like that they also think

00:12:41.360 about you like that if you consider politics to simply be a medium of economic exchange or about

00:12:49.060 who can accumulate the most stuff the most dollars somewhere and that's what qualifies them and they

00:12:54.800 could just be switched out for any other guy who accumulates dollars well then those are the kind

00:12:59.260 of people who also think about you as a commodity. They think about you as someone who is easily

00:13:04.080 replaced. So just something to consider. And men are less hesitant about letting down someone that

00:13:11.180 they love than in letting down someone they fear, because love affects men's behavior only

00:13:16.480 through the thought of how they ought to behave. And men are a low down lot for whom the thought,

00:13:24.520 for whom that thought has no power to get them to do anything they find inconvenient whereas fear

00:13:32.720 affects their behavior uh through the thought of possible punishment and that thought never

00:13:38.340 loses its power so he just reminds you the obvious like ultimately people respond to punishment much

00:13:45.080 more reliably than they respond to the idea that they ought to be doing something duty is far less

00:13:50.400 compelling to the average person than pain uh still a prince should try to inspire fear in such

00:13:56.860 a way that it does that he isn't that if he isn't loved at least he isn't hated because uh being

00:14:03.200 feared isn't such a burden if one isn't hated and a prince uh won't be hated as long as he keeps his

00:14:09.980 hands off his subjects women and property he has to proceed against someone's life he should do

00:14:17.460 have a proper justification a manifest cause for doing so but above all things he must keep his

00:14:23.240 hands off people's property because a man will forget the death of his father sooner than he

00:14:28.240 will forget the loss of his property uh the the loss of his property that his father left him

00:14:35.240 so this couple really huge things here right like so first he says it's not that you don't have to

00:14:41.160 care about what people think about you you do actually have to care what people think about

00:14:45.560 you you can be hated or you can be feared but don't be hated there is a difference right we

00:14:51.320 usually associate them as the same thing but it says no fear and hatred are not the same thing

00:14:57.340 right like this is where for instance like the fear of god comes in you know people say oh you

00:15:02.920 should fear god that will so i should hate him no you should know that he has the power and the

00:15:08.300 ability to do awesome and terrible things but that doesn't mean he's going to do them to you

00:15:14.500 that fear doesn't keep you from obeying it doesn't even keep you from loving but you respect that

00:15:22.620 right and the same thing with your again a parent right the dad right like one of the reasons our

00:15:27.980 society kind of like hates fathers so much is they hate this idea that like someone ultimately have

00:15:33.540 this trump card but behind like every uh threat of like hey if you don't go do this if you don't

00:15:41.960 go to your room if you don't take out the trash if you don't uh you know respect your mom at dinner

00:15:47.260 there could be a physical cost like you could be punished the dad can stop you right and there

00:15:54.580 comes a time often as kids get older especially male kids where they want to challenge their

00:15:59.320 father and they think well what if i just say no what if what if i just do whatever i want

00:16:06.640 what would really be the cost can i take him you know there are you know sons who will will try to

00:16:13.640 fight their father once they think they've gotten to like a certain size or certain age and they

00:16:18.340 think that they you know they might be able to remove any physical threat from them you know

00:16:23.360 just doing whatever they want and the point is no you you know the father has to maintain

00:16:28.960 basically enough respect to also have a little bit of fear right that doesn't mean you don't

00:16:35.100 love your dad that doesn't mean that you ultimately uh you know can't get along with him or something

00:16:41.060 but you have to have a little bit of fear that that guy really could if he needed to

00:16:46.060 stop you from doing whatever he wants you to stop doing and again you don't have to be terrified it

00:16:51.880 doesn't mean he needs to really do you know serious harm to you but just knowing that as a

00:16:56.120 kid keeps you in line when mom says stop it you know the kids are like oh okay when dad says stop

00:17:01.500 it's very different, right? And that doesn't mean the kids don't love dad, but it is different

00:17:06.840 because there's a little bit of that fear. Same true of God and same needs to be true of the

00:17:11.160 ruler. There's a reason, you know, that for many, many, many years, you know, hundreds, if not

00:17:16.840 thousands of years, the picture of the father and the king and God were all one, right? Because

00:17:23.660 these relationships are mirrored over and over again. The other thing that Machiavelli says here

00:17:29.640 that's really important is that people do not forget the loss of their patrimony but they will

00:17:36.500 forget the death of their father the this translation doesn't say patrimony that's why

00:17:40.620 it actually tripped me up for a second but i'm used to the other line but uh same idea her right

00:17:45.620 is like you uh as a human being are more likely to hold a grudge against someone who steals things

00:17:53.960 from you than someone who actually kills somebody you love like that and and that's brutal right

00:18:01.560 like this is where Machiavelli gets his uh reputation as uh as kind of a teacher of evil

00:18:07.480 or someone who just you know is a realist and just lays the facts out there but he's largely right

00:18:12.640 right like these are largely the behaviors that people exhibit they will care more and Machiavelli

00:18:21.620 says this many times over keep your hands off your people's women and their stuff and they'll

00:18:27.080 pretty much forgive you for anything else but if you take their stuff and you take their women

00:18:30.740 they will hate you and so he's reminding kings over and over again just don't be greedy don't

00:18:37.460 take their stuff don't take their women and they'll let you get away with whatever you want

00:18:40.520 and so uh you know he reminds them again here that you need to you have to keep that in mind

00:18:46.280 with human nature. People will care far more about the loss of property than they will even

00:18:51.900 the death of their own parents. This warning needs to be emphasized because the temptation

00:18:59.340 to go against it is so great. There's never any shortage of excuses for seizing property because

00:19:04.360 a prince who's lived by plunder will always find pretext for seizing that which belongs to others.

00:19:09.520 In contrast with reasons for taking someone's life which are harder to find and when found

00:19:15.520 are less durable. But when a prince is on a campaign with his army, with a multitude of

00:19:23.620 soldiers under his command, then he absolutely mustn't worry about having a reputation for

00:19:28.920 cruelty, because that reputation is what holds his army together and has it ready for duty.

00:19:35.780 Hannibal has been praised for, among everything else, the fact that he led an enormous mixed-race

00:19:40.680 army to fight in foreign lands and never in times of bad or good fortune, but had any trouble

00:19:48.320 within that army or between the armies and himself. The only possible explanation for this

00:19:53.400 is his inhuman cruelty, which combined with his enormous virtue to make him an object of respect

00:20:00.120 and terror for his soldiers. He couldn't have achieved this through his other virtues without

00:20:07.180 cruelty so he says here look everything i just said about domestically don't be cruel throw it

00:20:13.260 away when it comes to leading an army because that's what's going to bind that army together

00:20:17.040 they need to know you mean business they need to know that you are vicious ruthless that if they

00:20:22.520 cross you it's going to cost them everything and he praises hannibal here saying this guy was able

00:20:26.660 to bring all these different people together and uh hold those armies together just because of his

00:20:33.480 cruelty. Yeah, he had other virtues. He was wise. He had these great tactics, very, very smart about

00:20:39.560 certain things. But ultimately, those virtues would not have held the army together. It was

00:20:44.140 his reputation for cruelty, which allowed for all these different people to ultimately

00:20:48.660 work together. Historians who have admired his achievements while condemning the cruelty that

00:20:57.280 was their principal cause haven't fought hard enough. So he's like, oh, well, we love all those

00:21:02.200 other things about hannibal but man he was too cruel no machiavelli says the cruelty was the

00:21:07.620 key and again this is why machiavelli gets his t the reputation as a teacher of evil he doesn't

00:21:12.600 care he's explaining you how the mechanism works he says if you get rid of the cruelty you wouldn't

00:21:18.320 have had the other virtues they wouldn't have been sufficient to see that it's really true that this

00:21:23.580 other virtues wouldn't have been sufficient on their own look at the case of uh of scipio his

00:21:29.020 personal excellence made him stand out not only in his own times but in the whole of history

00:21:34.360 it is army mutinied in spain simply because his undue leniency gave his soldiers more freedom

00:21:41.480 than is consistent with military discipline fabius maximus scolded him for this in the senate

00:21:47.420 calling him a corruptor of the roman army one of scipio's senior officers led a led a part of his

00:21:54.980 army that did terrible harm to the locutions but scorpio uh the easygoing uh scorpio didn't see it

00:22:02.840 uh that they were didn't see that they were avenged and didn't punish the arrogant officer

00:22:07.360 if he had stayed in command of the army scoop scorpio sorry scipio's uh mildness would eventually

00:22:15.020 have tarnished his fame and glory but because he was under the senate's control this harmful

00:22:20.540 character trait of his was not only hidden, but actually contributed to his glory. Back for a

00:22:28.640 moment to the question of being feared or loved, I conclude that men decide whom they will love

00:22:33.860 while their prince decides whom they will fear. And a wise prince will lay his foundations on

00:22:39.220 what he can control and not what others control. While not caring about whether he is loved,

00:22:44.360 he should try and not be hated, as I said before. All right, so a couple things here. He gives you

00:22:49.220 the the example of Scipio and he says look Scipio wasn't cruel and that has helped his reputation

00:22:57.460 over time but if he had remained in the field if the Roman senate hadn't ultimately kind of

00:23:04.500 controlled where he was going and had that final say then he would have continued and he would

00:23:09.440 have gotten a bad reputation because his weakness would have eventually caught up with him it's not

00:23:13.640 that that weakness wasn't a real weakness it's that it simply did not have time to fully pay out

00:23:17.760 and cost you something so remember that when you're thinking about Scipio yes his reputation

00:23:22.700 historically is better because he wasn't cruel but if he had continued with that lack of cruelty

00:23:28.520 for too long his reputation would have taken a nosedive because the consequences of that would

00:23:32.940 have caught up with him then he says okay now let's conclude on are we feared or loved and he

00:23:37.820 says I think you should choose fear over love for the simple reason that men decide who they're

00:23:44.600 going to love but you can decide who they're going to fear and when you have to choose between

00:23:50.480 something you can't control and something you can control you should always pick the thing that is

00:23:54.940 under your control you have the agency when it comes to fear you don't have the agency when it

00:24:00.140 comes to love all the time so that's what gets you to do it though he reminds you yet again

00:24:03.720 even if they fear you don't get hated there's a there's a line between fear and hatred don't cross

00:24:10.400 it don't cross it all right chapter 18 how the prince should keep his word everyone knows that

00:24:18.800 it is a fine thing for a prince to keep his word and to live with the integrity rather than cunning

00:24:23.980 but our recent experience has been that the princes who achieve great things haven't worried

00:24:29.140 much about keeping their word knowing how to use cunning to outwit men they have eventually overcome

00:24:34.360 those who behave honestly you must know there are two sorts of conflicts one using the law and the

00:24:40.140 other using force one appropriate to humans and the other to beasts but the first method is often

00:24:46.020 not sufficient so men have to rely on the second a prince therefore needs to understand how to avail

00:24:51.140 himself of the beast and the man in himself because neither of these uh these natures can

00:24:57.760 survive for long without the other so basically again Machiavelli says yeah telling the truth

00:25:04.380 isn't actually the most important thing and not only is it not the most important thing if you do

00:25:08.720 it all the time, it will probably hurt you as a ruler. So you need to be ready to resolve issues

00:25:14.340 and you need to be able to resolve them through legal methods and through force. He refers to it

00:25:19.760 as man and beast. He says, yes, people might think you're beastly sometimes, but you have to be in

00:25:25.060 touch with that. You have to be willing to unleash that beast when necessary. It's not about always

00:25:30.320 just doing the right thing or saying the right thing or being honest or trying to resolve

00:25:34.540 everything legally no you need to know when it's time to shift gears for the beast side of the

00:25:39.680 nature the prince should choose the fox and the lion the lion can't defend itself against traps

00:25:44.680 and the fox can't defend itself against wolves so the prince needs to be a fox to discover the

00:25:49.440 traps and the lion uh and a lion to scare off the wolves those who try to live by the lion alone

00:25:55.400 won't understand what they're up to a prudent a prudent lord therefore can't and shouldn't keep

00:26:01.140 his word when that could be used against him, and the reason that led him to give it in the first

00:26:08.140 place no longer exists. If men were extremely good, this advice would be bad, but in fact,

00:26:16.620 they are dismally bad, and they won't keep their promises to you, so you shouldn't keep your

00:26:21.280 promises to them. And a prince will never be short of legitimate reasons for not keeping his promises.

00:26:26.640 countless recent examples of this should be given uh could be given showing how many promises have

00:26:33.560 uh come to nothing because of their faithlessness to the prince and showing the most successful

00:26:38.940 princes have been those who best know how to employ the fox all right so Machiavelli here

00:26:45.320 gives you two animals to imitate when you're when you're being a beast the fox and the lion if you

00:26:51.480 haven't uh listened to this channel then you probably haven't heard this before uh but if

00:26:57.300 you have then you're very familiar with this language because I've used Machiavelli's foxes

00:27:01.260 and lions quite a bit over the years to kind of delineate this difference in between kind of the

00:27:07.460 strong lion uh forceful ruler and the tricky uh manipulative fox ruler so he says uh and I've used

00:27:16.240 him as like how to differentiate between these two but he says the real best ruler the ultimate

00:27:21.640 ruler combines these right he's neither fox nor lion he is both he is strong he is able to use

00:27:28.160 force competently he is comfortable with that force but he's also tricky he also knows how to

00:27:34.780 manipulate others he knows how to play the game he knows how to use both the evasive qualities of the

00:27:42.140 fox and the serious and powerful qualities of the lion. And here he says, you know, a prudent

00:27:49.520 lord therefore can't and shouldn't keep his word when that could be used against him and the reason

00:27:54.980 that led him to give it and no longer exists, right? He says, so you shouldn't keep your word

00:28:01.300 if it's going to hurt you, basically. And you should do that because other people are going

00:28:05.520 to betray you, especially like other leaders. They're going to lie to you. They're going to

00:28:09.960 manipulate you and so you need to be prepared to break your word when it is necessary you need to

00:28:17.620 have that ability again not not the greatest moral teaching but certainly one that has proven itself

00:28:26.100 over time when it comes to raw politics that you have to be prepared to pivot and you and you

00:28:32.300 shouldn't ultimately feel the need to keep word a word to people who will not keep it for you

00:28:37.720 who will ultimately turn around and betray you but it's necessary to know how to camouflage

00:28:43.720 this characteristic and to be a great pretender and dissembler and men are so naive and so

00:28:49.540 dominated by present necessity that a deceiver will always find someone who let himself be

00:28:55.040 deceived there's uh there's one recent example that i can't pass over in silence pope alexander

00:29:00.920 the sixth was deceptive in everything he did used deception as a matter of course and always found

00:29:06.280 victims no man no man ever said things with greater force reinforcing his promises with

00:29:11.960 greater rose while keeping his word less yet his deceptions always worked out in the way he wanted

00:29:17.700 because he well understood this aspect of mankind so he says look you have to be able to basically

00:29:24.580 lie and deceive people but you need to hide that about yourself don't go around like talking about

00:29:29.660 how what a great deceiver you are no one wants to think they're being deceived but he says don't

00:29:34.200 worry even if you like build somewhat of a reputation as deceiver someone will always

00:29:39.100 fall for it like there will always be people who kind of want to be manipulated who want to buy in

00:29:44.120 to your propaganda who want to believe what you're selling

00:29:47.300 so prince needn't have all the good qualities i have listed but he does have to appear to have

00:29:55.440 them and so i go this far to have those qualities and always to act by them is injurious and to

00:30:01.340 appear to have them is useful. An example, to appear to be merciful, trustworthy, friendly,

00:30:06.360 straightforward, devout, and to be so while being mentally prepared to switch any virtue off if that

00:30:13.840 will serve your purposes. So Machiavelli makes it clear, again, teacher of evil, you need to look

00:30:21.100 like you have these principles. You need to look like you have these virtues, but you need to be

00:30:25.580 willing to basically get rid of them when they're inconvenient. Now, you shouldn't do it all the

00:30:30.040 time Machiavelli makes that clear but if there's if there's a if it comes down to am I going to

00:30:35.240 lose the kingdom am I going to get stabbed in the back am I going to lose power am I going to be

00:30:40.180 unsafe like in these critical moments you need to be willing to basically throw those virtues in

00:30:46.280 trash and try to maintain try to cultivate the appearance of them but don't cling to them so

00:30:52.720 tightly that you wouldn't save yourself when the moment comes and it must be understood that a

00:30:58.660 prince, especially a new one, can't always act in ways that are regarded as good. In order to

00:31:04.340 reserve his state, he will often have to act in ways that are flatly contrary to

00:31:15.400 mercifulness, trustworthiness, friendliness, straightforwardness, and piety. And that's why

00:31:21.000 he needs to be prepared to change course according to the way the winds blow, which way fortune

00:31:26.740 pushes him to a prince so a prince should take care that he never lets anything slip from his

00:31:33.200 lips that isn't full of the five qualities i've been talking about so that anyone who sees and

00:31:38.580 hears him thinks that he is all of them like he is merciful trustworthy friendly straightforward

00:31:43.740 and devout so look like you have it don't say things that make you look like you don't have

00:31:48.820 these qualities you need to appear to be all these things don't just yeah again it's not this

00:31:55.560 oh well i can do whatever i want and i so i just don't care what other people think about me no no

00:32:01.380 no very different he says actually you need to go out there and care about how you are perceived

00:32:07.740 but when push comes to shove be ready to jump off that train don't don't don't you know completely

00:32:13.720 devote yourself to it this last quality or the appearance of it matters enormously nothing

00:32:18.660 matters more men usually judge things by their eye rather than their their hand everybody gets

00:32:24.100 to see but few come to touch everyone sees what you appear to be but very few feel uh what you

00:32:30.640 are and those few who don't have the courage to stand up against the majority opinion which is

00:32:36.140 backed by the majesty of the state so he says yeah appear to look like this but even though even if

00:32:42.800 people ultimately uh figure it out if a few people figure it out they won't have the courage to speak

00:32:47.800 out against you because you'll be in charge and you'll have the power of the state and everybody

00:32:51.960 else will agree with you. So even if a few people figure it out, you'll be okay. But maintain that

00:32:57.820 appearance whenever possible. And everybody's actions, especially those of princes for whom

00:33:03.380 there is no court of appeal, are judged by their results. So let the prince conquer and hold

00:33:11.160 his state. His means for this will always be regarded as honorable, and he'll be praised by

00:33:17.300 everybody why because the common people are always impressed by appearances and outcomes and the

00:33:22.820 world contains only common people there are few others but they're but they can find a footing

00:33:28.320 there so long as the majority have any grounds at all for their opinions so he says really flatly

00:33:35.940 like you don't have to worry like the common people are going to be impressed when you win

00:33:43.200 they'll like you when you win

00:33:44.660 and how you got there and why you got there

00:33:47.800 and the procedures and everything else

00:33:49.440 they're going to care less about that

00:33:51.720 and I'll be honest

00:33:53.020 I give this piece of advice all the time

00:33:55.300 like this is what I'm constantly screaming

00:33:57.760 just win

00:33:59.540 just win and figure it out later

00:34:02.220 they'll love you when you win

00:34:05.100 they'll love it when you actually get something done

00:34:07.960 once you're victorious no one will care

00:34:10.060 and you know to be fair

00:34:11.500 a lot of people have said that about the war in Iran. 1.00

00:34:13.500 I don't think the war in Iran is wise, but they are 1.00

00:34:15.560 right about that, right? Had Trump been able 1.00

00:34:17.480 to go in and in a few weeks

00:34:19.560 just completely decimate the Iranians and leave, 0.83

00:34:22.020 then even people like me 0.99

00:34:23.680 who oppose that 0.97

00:34:24.880 look a little foolish and everyone would love 0.99

00:34:27.440 Trump for winning. But he didn't. 1.00

00:34:30.140 So, that's a problem.

00:34:32.340 You can

00:34:32.820 probably get away with anything as long as you win.

00:34:36.080 It's losing.

00:34:37.380 Losing is the only unforgivable act in

00:34:39.480 politics. I'll say that again.

00:34:41.500 losing is the only unforgivable act in politics that's why it's so important to maintain momentum

00:34:48.940 use power and be successful no one is going to look at you and say well you lost but you lost

00:34:55.180 honorably that's the beautiful loser strategy it doesn't work republicans have tried it for years

00:35:00.180 conservatives have tried for years it's been a failure a certain prince a certain prince of the

00:35:06.160 present time, I had better not name him, preaches nothing but peace and trust, and is very hostile

00:35:13.040 to both. And if he had ever practiced what he preached, he would have lost his reputation

00:35:17.260 and his kingdom many times over. All right, chapter 19, how to avoid attracting contempt

00:35:24.340 and hatred. Having spoken of the more important qualities in my list, I want now to deal briefly

00:35:32.560 with the others by touching or by bringing them under a general point that I've already touched

00:35:37.740 on. Namely, a prince must be careful to avoid anything that will bring hatred and contempt

00:35:43.320 down on him. If he's successful in that, he'll know he'll have played his part and won't have

00:35:49.280 any reason to see danger in criticisms of his conduct. What would be what would most get him

00:35:55.940 hated, I repeat, is being a grabber, a thief of his subjects, property and women. He mustn't do

00:36:02.200 that most men live uh contently as long as their property and their honor is untouched so the prince

00:36:08.240 will have a have to contend only with ambitious an ambitious minority and there are plenty of ways

00:36:14.220 of easily dealing with them so once again he says it over and over again don't touch the women don't

00:36:20.820 touch the money don't touch their stuff don't touch their women and he says this for obvious reasons

00:36:25.260 like what's the first thing people with power try to do take all everybody's money and stuff right

00:36:30.680 like that's a common common common uh uh flaw in leaders and he says just don't do this and he says

00:36:37.480 it's so many times over this is the one thing you can't do everything else they'll forgive you

00:36:41.640 everything else they'll forget don't touch their women don't touch their money a prince will be 0.83

00:36:46.680 condemned if he's regarded as variable frivolous effeminate and cowardly irresolute and the prince 0.55

00:36:53.660 should steer away from all of these though they as though they were a reef on which his ship of

00:36:59.040 state could be wrecked he should try to show in his actions greatness courage seriousness and

00:37:05.100 fortitude and in his private dealings with his subjects his judgment should be irrevocable and

00:37:10.500 his standing should be such that no one would dream of trying to cheat or outwit him a prince

00:37:16.240 who conveys this impression of himself will be highly respected and that will make him hard to

00:37:21.580 conspire against internally and hard to attack from the outside as long as he is known to be an

00:37:27.920 excellent man who is respected by his people. So a prince ought to have two main worries. One

00:37:33.680 internal concerning his subjects and the other external concerning foreign powers. He can defend

00:37:41.580 himself against foreign powers by being well-armed and having good allies. If he is well-armed,

00:37:46.880 he will have good allies. A prince can easily secure himself against internal conspiracies

00:37:52.280 against him by avoiding being hated and condemned and keeping their people satisfied with him.

00:37:57.920 conspirators will always expect the that the killing the prince will be popular and they

00:38:02.740 learn and when they learn that it will be unpopular they lose heart and give up because

00:38:06.700 the conspiracies are hard enough to pull off anyway history presents us with many conspiracies

00:38:12.020 but few successful ones so he says look just like you have arms and armies to protect you from

00:38:18.700 foreign enemies the best way to protect yourself against domestic enemies is the love of your

00:38:22.700 people again Machiavelli he might be a teacher of evil in certain areas but he is very practical

00:38:28.080 and in this case he says look whether you care about whether the people like really love you

00:38:33.460 and that kind of stuff or really happy with you like whether you actually care for them like a

00:38:37.300 father the way to keep power is to have them care to care about you to them be ultimately happy with

00:38:42.880 your rule yeah it's better to be feared right but like if you can be loved that's great and if you

00:38:47.660 can't be loved at least don't be hated have them fear and respect you and know that you're important

00:38:52.080 right that rule under you is better than someone else and if you can do that then when people try

00:38:57.160 to conspire to like kill you or take over they won't do it because the people will hate them

00:39:01.940 for it and the whole point of like executing a leader is because you think the people ultimately

00:39:06.400 like support you or support the next leader that you want in charge but if they hate you for

00:39:11.080 killing the leader they're not going to do that and so most kings can be best protected simply by

00:39:15.420 actually being good rulers that's actually the best protection for your own good for your own

00:39:22.180 good be a good ruler even if you don't care about your people even if you don't actually

00:39:26.080 have all those virtues that i listed earlier still be a good king and still take good care

00:39:31.320 of your people that's the best defense against an actual rebellion an actual conspiracy or plot

00:39:35.980 the reason for the high rate of failure is this someone plotting a coup against a prince can't

00:39:40.920 act alone he has to select a fellow conspirators uh he has to select uh as fellow conspirators

00:39:47.620 people who he believes to be dissatisfied with the status quo and by revealing your plan to such a

00:39:54.140 malcontent you have to put him in a position to become very content towards you or or you have

00:40:00.780 put him in a position to become very content without you because he can expect great rewards

00:40:05.900 for denouncing you when he sees a certain game from turning you in and the great uncertainty

00:40:10.780 about what good will come to him from uh joining your conspiracy he'll turn uh he'll turn you in

00:40:17.920 he'll turn you in unless he's a mate an amazingly good friend to you or a passionate enemy of the

00:40:23.380 prince so he says conspiracies are really hard because you can't do them alone and you have to

00:40:27.540 invest in other people who are already like kind of malcontents and don't like what's going on and

00:40:32.820 they have a lot more to gain from ultimately betraying you and turning you in than like

00:40:37.620 actually helping you overturn the system um if you haven't seen this before this behavior before

00:40:42.820 uh check out the like i was part of like the online ride or the dissonant ride or whatever

00:40:48.360 and then um it turns out like actually it wasn't that great and i didn't get what i wanted so now

00:40:55.240 i'm gonna do a tell-all to the new york times or uh you know to someone else and all of a sudden

00:41:01.980 this person who used to be far right used to be this edgy guy used to be interested in getting

00:41:06.820 rid of the system he realizes that there's more benefit in like betraying all these people uh to

00:41:12.060 the system itself and re-embracing the system and that's just a version of what Machiavelli is saying

00:41:16.780 here it's like it's really hard to like ultimately like undermine these established powers because

00:41:21.460 in order to like ingratiate yourself with people who uh also are unhappy with the system you

00:41:28.880 basically have to open yourself up to betrayal and these are exactly the kind of people who will

00:41:32.400 betray you right and so you you are really running a big risk to summarize on this conspirator's side

00:41:38.860 there is nothing but fear jealousy and terrifying prospect of punishment on the prince's side there

00:41:43.740 is the majesty of his rank and the laws the protection of his friends and the state add in

00:41:48.360 these factors and the good will of the people and it's almost impossible that anyone should be so

00:41:53.540 rashes to conspire against a prince. Conspirators usually have to fear that something will prevent

00:41:59.120 them from going through with their plot. But in this case, where the people are on good terms

00:42:04.540 with the prince, the conspirators also have to fear that they may happen, what may happen after

00:42:10.040 the crime, because the people will be hostile to him and wouldn't give him shelter. So basically,

00:42:15.040 if you're a popular ruler and the people like you, or at least they know you're valuable,

00:42:19.340 you're not going to get assassinated because it's already hard enough to do assassinations.

00:42:23.040 they're already going to get betrayed by their guys most of the time i mean even if they don't

00:42:27.560 if the people don't love them for doing the assassination then the people are going to kill

00:42:30.760 them or you know overthrow whatever system they wanted to put in place so it's just not worth it

00:42:35.240 of the countless examples of this there could be given i've selected one uh which our fathers

00:42:41.000 might actually remember annabelle uh annabelle uh bento villago sorry about my italian

00:42:48.240 pronunciation who was prince of bologna was murdered by the canishi in 1445 the only one of

00:42:55.280 his family who survived was an infant giovanni immediately after the assassination the people

00:43:00.240 rose and murdered all the canicia this came uh came after the popularity uh this came from the 0.94

00:43:07.240 popularity that the bentoviligo family enjoyed in those days in bologna is it was so great that

00:43:14.440 although after annabelle's death there was no uh bento villago left uh who could rule the state

00:43:20.340 the uh bolognese uh heard about bento villago in florence who until then had been uh thought to be

00:43:28.280 the son of a blacksmith sent to florence for him and gave him the government over their over their

00:43:33.480 city he held it until giovanni was old enough to take over so basically they get rid of these rule

00:43:38.440 this this ruling class they have this conspiracy to wipe them out and the people are so like used

00:43:43.500 to having them they think they're like so uh favoring these rulers they actually kill the

00:43:48.280 people who um uh who get rid of the ruler and then they go back and they find some guy who's

00:43:53.980 just like some blacksmith uh who who turned out to have some relation to the king and they stole him

00:43:59.040 just because of the majesty of the office just because of the bloodline that they trusted the

00:44:04.340 lesson i draw from all of this is that a prince shouldn't worry much about conspiracies against

00:44:08.660 him if his people are well dispositioned towards him but if they are hostile to him and hate him

00:44:14.280 he should fear everything and everyone well-ordered states and wise princes have taken care not to

00:44:20.260 drive the nobles to desperation and to keep the common people satisfied and content this is one

00:44:26.560 of the prince's most important important tasks france is currently well-ordered and well-governed

00:44:32.240 The French king's liberty and security depend on countless good institutions that the French

00:44:39.260 have, and most important of which is parliament and authority.

00:44:43.340 The men who set up the system, knowing the ambition and arrogance of the nobility, thought

00:44:47.380 that they needed a bit in their mouth to rein them in, and on the other hand, knowing

00:44:51.240 how much the common people hated and feared the nobility, wanted to do something to protect

00:44:56.320 them.

00:44:57.020 But he didn't want either side of this to be the king's job, because he didn't want to

00:45:01.180 be blamed for the nobles uh blamed by the nobles for favoring the people or by the people for

00:45:07.820 favoring the nobles so he set up a third party an arbiter the parliament which could hold back

00:45:12.680 the nobles and favor the common people without bringing criticism down on the king all right

00:45:17.020 so this is a brilliant little passage okay a lot of people think about monarchy and they think

00:45:21.780 that uh it was like the king and he's super rich and he hobnobs around with all of his nobles

00:45:27.560 and like that's how he has power it's all the king and the nobles looking down on the little

00:45:31.640 people and laughing at them but that's not the dynamic that almost anyone talks about when you

00:45:35.640 read about ancient monarchies or you know not even not so ancient monarchies it says the key

00:45:40.680 dynamic is actually the the king and the people versus the nobility uh actually you'll probably

00:45:46.920 recognize this again if you watch the channel long enough this is bertrand de juveniles high

00:45:51.120 and low versus middle and he says basically you need to have a situation where the king the king

00:45:57.460 is kind of protecting the people from the nobility uh this is the most common way you see throughout

00:46:04.300 history the people acting with the king the people usually despise the nobility but love the king

00:46:09.640 they they usually see the king as the their protector against the other nobles and so the

00:46:15.720 nobles tend to have like this kind of uh you know hot and cold relationship with the king because

00:46:21.280 the king is constantly holding them back from like exploiting the the the people as much as

00:46:26.180 they want because the noble lords have that regional control and the king is like no you

00:46:30.060 can't squeeze every dollar of them you can't take all of their stuff and taxes like the king is

00:46:35.160 actually protecting the people a lot of time but he says in france they have a brilliant system

00:46:39.760 because there's this parliament and the parliament is actually a very useful thing for the king

00:46:43.440 because it allows uh there to be like this body that kind of checks the the behavior of the nobles

00:46:49.760 but ultimately like it's not the king's fault that it happened so they can't hate him and it

00:46:55.080 also keeps the people from like being a excessively violent towards the nobles so like there's this

00:47:01.160 balancing act going on uh the lesson we can uh let's see where did i leave off this has proved

00:47:09.920 an excellent and prudent way of protecting

00:47:12.100 the security of the king in the kingdom. The lesson

00:47:14.100 we can learn from this is that princes ought

00:47:16.000 to leave unpopular policies

00:47:17.760 to be implemented by others

00:47:19.680 and keep in their hands

00:47:21.280 and keep in their own hands any of that

00:47:23.960 will be accepted with gratitude. So he says

00:47:25.540 have other people do your dirty work

00:47:28.020 and let them be the blame. If there's

00:47:29.680 some institution, some officer,

00:47:32.080 something else that you can ultimately

00:47:33.820 be charged with doing something that's

00:47:36.000 unpleasant, have them do that. And then you

00:47:37.940 keep all the good stuff for yourself so that you get

00:47:39.900 credit. A likely objection to what I have been saying is this. Look at the lives and deaths of

00:47:45.820 Roman emperors. Some of them have lived nobly and showed great virtue and spirit, and yet they lost

00:47:51.160 their empire or were killed by their subjects who conspired against them. I shall respond to this

00:47:57.040 by recalling the character of some of these emperors in question, showing that the causes

00:48:01.380 of their downfalls were not consistent with what I have been saying. In arguing for this, I will

00:48:05.920 confine myself to the emperors between the period of 161 and 238 AD. This translation uses CE. We

00:48:13.540 never use CE or BCE. That's enemy language. Never do that. Enemy coded. During which the Roman 1.00

00:48:19.880 empire was ruled by this continuous series of emperors. And then he lists the emperors here.

00:48:25.520 Marcus, the philosopher known as Marcus Aurelius, his son, Commodus, Pertinax, Julian, Septimus

00:48:31.960 Servus, his son Antoninus Caracalla, Marcianus, Heligobulus, Alexander Sereris, and Maximus.

00:48:41.740 The first thing to note is that whereas in other states the prince has only to deal with the

00:48:48.680 ambition of the nobles and the insolence of the common people, the Roman emperors had a third

00:48:54.180 problem created by the cruelty and greed of their soldiers. It wasn't easy to satisfy both. The

00:48:59.180 common people who love peace and were drawn to unambitious princes and the soldiers who were

00:49:04.500 drawn to the prince uh princes who were bold cruel and rapacious and were willing for a prince to

00:49:09.840 exercise these qualities against the common people so they could double their incomes by adding loot

00:49:14.760 to their regular pay and and give vent to their own greed and cruelty so remember when rome goes

00:49:20.400 from being a republic to an empire we see a big change in the role of the army because previously

00:49:25.940 the army was all volunteer and serving in the army was like this uh was this privilege like

00:49:31.960 if you served in the army you were real roman and a real citizen and you had the respect you

00:49:36.300 could climb the social ladder and all these things but you had to like buy your own equipment your

00:49:40.440 own uh armor you know everything you even had to buy your own horses that's where equestrian

00:49:45.760 came from the equestrian class and so uh you it was a thing of real armor is an honor it was a

00:49:52.480 real volunteer to your military when it went to the emperor the army became permanent and became

00:49:58.440 something that was paid for through the marian reforms you got this scenario where now you had

00:50:03.880 a professional standing army that was compensated more like a normal army we think of today but was

00:50:09.700 also really heavily reliant on the spoils of war you got rich by being a soldier not just through

00:50:15.280 your base pay but through looting so you wanted to go to war you wanted to go places where you could

00:50:20.660 kill a bunch of people and take their stuff basically that's what the wars wanted so that

00:50:24.640 there's this constant tension between um the military and the people because the people just 0.89

00:50:30.760 wanted peace the people just wanted prosperity but the army they wanted constant war so they

00:50:35.420 could loot more stuff and they could get more advantages and you know they wanted a emperor

00:50:40.640 who would you know rely on them instead of relying on like the people uh rely on his army to keep the

00:50:47.800 people in check and so they could ask for more money they can ask more things because that prince

00:50:51.640 is beholden to them right so that's the the constant tension between the people and the

00:50:57.040 soldiers in imperial rome this problem was so hard and so many emperors were brought down by it

00:51:03.920 especially emperors who weren't naturally authoritative and didn't and weren't trained

00:51:07.260 in authority uh and weren't trained in authority were overthrown that usually happened especially

00:51:13.080 with newcomers to the role of prince was this they saw the difficulty posed by these two opposing

00:51:19.260 attitudes and tried to satisfy the soldiers and not worry about whatever harm this was going to

00:51:24.640 do to the people they had to do this because princes might try to avoid being hated by anyone

00:51:29.800 but when they discover as of course they will that this is more than they can manage they should

00:51:35.960 really work hard to avoid the hatred of groups that have the most power this is why emperors

00:51:40.240 who had a special need for favorable support

00:51:43.200 because they were new to this,

00:51:45.100 turned to the army rather than to the people.

00:51:47.180 How well this worked out for each prince

00:51:49.440 depending on whether or not he knew

00:51:50.740 how to keep the army's respect.

00:51:52.300 So first rule, pay the soldiers.

00:51:55.700 First key of the dictator, of the king,

00:51:59.620 of the authoritarian.

00:52:02.580 If you have ever read the dictator's handbook,

00:52:04.880 great book, great little introduction

00:52:07.480 to many important political understandings.

00:52:10.240 But he talks about in that book, the first key is pay the soldiers.

00:52:13.920 Always pay the guys with guns first, right?

00:52:16.740 A smart ruler always does this.

00:52:18.380 And he says, for obvious reasons, you can't keep everyone happy.

00:52:21.300 You try to keep everyone happy, but someone will be angry at you.

00:52:23.760 And if you have to choose who should be angry with you, should it be the people or should it be the soldiers, have it be the guys with guns that like you.

00:52:31.060 Have the guys with swords like you.

00:52:33.140 That's what's most important.

00:52:33.980 He says this is especially true of people who are coming to power and aren't like hereditary rulers because hereditary rulers have like some kind of connection with they have some kind of connection with the people already. Right. Like if you're if you're a hereditary ruler, you have the respect that you've been established. You have a momentum. But if you're new, you're almost entirely leaning on the soldiers because they're probably how you got to power in the first place. Like you didn't have swords and then you got swords. Right. How did you get those swords?

00:53:03.220 well we've already talked about that a lot in the print so i'm not going to go back over all that

00:53:06.680 but the point is that you owe more to those stories than you do to the people that's probably

00:53:11.680 how you came to power in the first place so that's where a lot of new leaders go that's why

00:53:17.140 pertinax and alexander service uh service uh being men of modest life lovers of justice enemies

00:53:24.020 to cruelty humane and uh and benign both came to a sad end marcus was uh equally excellent as a

00:53:32.680 person and was honored uh throughout his life that uh was because he had success he had succeeded

00:53:39.640 to throne by hereditary right with no help from uh the army and the people uh or the people and

00:53:46.380 afterwards the respect he got because of his great virtue enabled him to keep both groups in place

00:53:51.800 without being hated or condemned by either so he says look these first two emperors they were good

00:53:56.980 people they were excellent quality uh they they were uh lovers of justice and they lost they lost

00:54:03.700 because they did not listen to this rule and then he says you got another guy who came to power

00:54:09.720 because he was hereditary and because of this uh he was like already in this mode where he didn't

00:54:18.180 need the army or the people he didn't have to win over and promise anything to the people

00:54:21.840 and then uh he had great virtue so he didn't have to uh go to this he didn't have to ultimately

00:54:29.020 uh you know kind of play to these groups but that's only because he already held the power

00:54:33.780 if he had come to power like these other two and hadn't played to those groups he would have lost

00:54:38.480 but because he was hereditary ruler already was established already had that plus he had the

00:54:44.080 virtue then he kept from being hated by either group but pertinax was was created emperor against

00:54:50.560 his wishes of the soldiers who having become used to the laxity and discipline under Commodus

00:54:56.900 couldn't bear the proper discipline that Pertinax wanted to inflict on them thus having given cause

00:55:02.300 to be hated with contempt for his old age thrown in he was overthrown killed near the start of his

00:55:08.460 reign notice that hatred is required as much as good works notice that hatred is required is

00:55:15.020 acquired as much by good works as bad ones so pertinex comes in and says you know commodus he

00:55:21.620 was lazy he was letting you guys get away with anything i'm gonna get in here and we're gonna

00:55:24.660 have discipline and because he did that good thing he was hated by the army and killed he was

00:55:29.340 assassinated right so he died very early on because he tried to reform the army um but he

00:55:34.560 was elevated by the army in the first place or sorry against their wishes uh and so therefore

00:55:40.220 they were already angry at him and then on top of that he tries to crack down on them they end up

00:55:44.420 dead so he says you can be hated for doing the right thing in fact you should know and that's

00:55:49.460 why he says avoid those virtues when they're going to cost you something like being killed

00:55:54.040 now for alexander service uh we uh who had such a good uh who was such a good man that many praises

00:56:02.220 were lavished upon him including this in his 14 years as emperor he never had anyone executed

00:56:07.140 without a trial still he was regarded as effeminate and as being under his mother's thumb

00:56:11.480 and he came to be held in contempt and the army conspired against him and murdered him

00:56:15.460 the character of Commodus uh Septimius Cerverus and Antoninus Caracalla and Maximus uh are all

00:56:25.320 are at the other end of the scale they were all extremely cruel and rapacious men who set no

00:56:31.120 limits on to how they would harm their people in order to satisfy their soldiers and all of them

00:56:36.580 except Septimius came to a bad end. He had so much virtue that he could keep the army on his

00:56:46.000 side, although he oppressed the people, and he was able to have a successful 18-year reign.

00:56:53.340 His virtue made him remarkable in the eyes of the soldiers, who were respectful and satisfied

00:56:58.720 of the people who were numb with astonishment. And the man's achievements were impressive,

00:57:04.100 given that he was a new prince and i want to give a brief sketch of how good he was at uh imitating

00:57:09.900 the fox and lion which i said earlier a prince should be able to do at the time uh when pertinax

00:57:15.680 was killed by his praetorian guard septimius had in his command had in command of an army

00:57:21.160 in slovenia knowing the emperor julian pertinax successor on the throne he bought his election

00:57:29.020 as emperor from the soldiers and the palace guard and was feeble and in and decisive so he knows

00:57:36.320 this guy who's taking over is you know bought everything uh you know he doesn't have the

00:57:41.600 respect of the people ultimately he doesn't have the respect of the soldiers service convinced his

00:57:45.600 army that it would be right to go to rome and avenge pertinax's death under this pretext and

00:57:50.460 without revealing any ambition to become emperor himself he got he got his army to rome moving so

00:57:56.580 fast that he reached Italy before it was known that he had left Slovenia. On his arrival at Rome,

00:58:04.120 the frightened Senate elected him emperor, and he had Julian killed. Service now confronted two

00:58:10.000 obstacles to becoming master of the whole Roman Empire, one in Asia and one in Niger. Commander

00:58:17.720 of the Asiatic army had himself proclaimed emperor when Pertinax was murdered. The other in the West

00:58:26.260 was albinus uh also at the head of an army aimed aiming to uh aiming to sorry i lost myself there

00:58:36.320 also at the head of his army aimed to become emperor thinking it would be too risky to declare

00:58:42.540 himself hostile to both service and decided to attack niger and deceive albinus he wrote to

00:58:49.360 albinus saying that uh that having been elected emperor by the senate he was willing to share

00:58:54.980 uh that dignity with albinus as co-emperor and what the senate would agree to and that the

00:59:01.420 senate would agree to this and he gave albinus the title of caesar albinus uh believed this

00:59:07.140 but after uh septimius uh had conquered and killed niger uh and calmed uh things down in the east

00:59:16.020 he returned to rome and complained to the senate that albinus instead of being grateful for the

00:59:21.740 benefits of service uh had given him had uh treacherously tried to murder him for the

00:59:28.060 ingratitude he told the senate he had no option but to punish him so he hunted albinus down in

00:59:33.600 france and took uh from him his authority in his life so says this guy is very clever but also very

00:59:40.000 powerful right he uses the fox and the lion he lies and says oh i'm so offended that uh our emperor

00:59:47.300 has been killed pertinax has been killed we should go and take back uh you know the kingdom

00:59:52.780 from these uh usurpers right now really he knows that the army is the army there is weak or his

00:59:59.600 position is weak because he had to bribe these people to take the position and so he really he

01:00:04.120 thinks he can take control but he doesn't say that he just uses that as a pretext to get his army

01:00:08.720 into rome and then once they're there he's got these two other rival uh generals who are going

01:00:14.940 to try to take over who've been declared emperor or want to declare themselves emperor so he plays

01:00:19.500 them off against each other right he goes he he goes and attacks one and then he makes false

01:00:25.300 promises to the other that you're going to be my co-emperor you're going to be my second you know

01:00:29.220 in command the caesar if you don't know was kind of like the the designated title to the successor

01:00:34.760 of the emperor yes caesar was uh a man it was julius caesar's is his house but then caesar

01:00:40.180 became kind of the title uh kind of for the emperor a little bit and then it became like

01:00:44.720 the secondary emperor uh where you know this once you've been named caesar you're going to be the

01:00:49.780 guy after the emperor dies right that was kind of often the way that that title was used or as a

01:00:54.780 co-emperor here but it turns out that's a lie too and he and he ultimately convinces like the

01:00:59.280 senate oh actually this guy betrayed another roman and so i have to go take care of this i have to

01:01:04.420 settle this and also conveniently eliminate my competition so again that combination of the strong

01:01:09.940 decisive willingness to use force of the lion but the ability to deceive and manipulate with

01:01:16.720 the fox and again this is all very dishonorable behavior for a lot of people but this is what

01:01:21.280 Machiavelli says gets the job done anyone who looks carefully at this man's actions will see

01:01:25.920 that he was very ferocious lion and a most cunning fox feared and respected by everyone and not hated

01:01:31.440 by his army it's not surprising that he a newcomer to the throne rather than having been educated for

01:01:37.480 it as their heir apparent was able to hold onto power so well his immense prestige always protected

01:01:44.040 him from the hatred that the people might have had for him because of his violence and greed

01:01:49.860 his son at the ninus haricalla was an eminent man with excellent qualities that made the people

01:01:57.100 admire him uh and the soldiers uh accept him more than just accept him indeed he was a hardened

01:02:03.060 warrior who never tried who who never got tired and despised all delicate food and other luxuries

01:02:09.940 so that his soldiers loved him yet his ferocity and cruelty were enormous far beyond anything

01:02:15.680 people had known before uh before so that after countless single murders he had a large number

01:02:21.860 of people of rome killed and the entire population of alexandria he came to be hated by the whole

01:02:27.760 world and also feared by those who are around him so much of a centur so much that a centurion

01:02:34.160 murdered him in the midst of his soldiers it's important to understand that a prince can't

01:02:38.200 protect himself against that sort of murder planned by a determined mind because anyone

01:02:42.440 can kill a prince if he doesn't mind dying himself still a prince doesn't get to have

01:02:46.720 doesn't have to uh to be much in fear of an assassination because they're rare but he does

01:02:53.240 have to take care not to do any grave injury to any of his servants or those around him in the

01:02:59.580 service of the state, because that is just what Caracalla did. He had shamefully put to death a

01:03:04.740 brother of that centurion and had continually threatened a centurion himself, yet he kept

01:03:10.200 himself in his bodyguard. It was a rash thing to do and provide the emperor's ruin. Again, this is

01:03:16.000 another theme that Machiavelli has throughout. If you have to injure a man, wipe him out,

01:03:23.240 completely don't let that fester like either do the injury or don't do it at all like do the 0.96

01:03:28.800 injury and take the guy off the board or don't do it at all and here he says caracalla was foolish

01:03:33.660 because he injured this man's relative but left uh him close to him right and so that guy you know

01:03:40.620 had that festering hate and that's what got him killed so don't be cruel to the people around you 0.99

01:03:45.040 or if you are don't keep them around you just get rid just kill them just get rid of them but don't 0.96

01:03:50.000 Don't make the mistake of treating someone cruelly and then keeping them around for fun 0.99

01:03:53.840 or, you know, thinking that, you know, for some reason it's okay.

01:03:57.520 They will foster that hatred towards you.

01:04:00.740 Let us now turn to Commodus.

01:04:02.680 I should have been very easy for him to hold on to power

01:04:06.220 because as the son of Marcus Aurelius, he had inherited it.

01:04:09.220 All he needed to do to please his soldiers and the people

01:04:11.920 was to follow in his father's footsteps.

01:04:14.960 But he was cruel, beastly so, and freed himself to steal from people

01:04:18.360 by occurring favor with the soldiers

01:04:20.320 and letting military discipline collapse.

01:04:22.980 And eventually the soldiers came to condemn him.

01:04:26.100 He had no sense of dignity of his position

01:04:28.900 after showing up in the amphitheater

01:04:30.600 to compete with gladiators

01:04:31.800 and did other sordid things

01:04:33.460 that weren't worthy of imperial majesty.

01:04:36.460 So he came to be hated by the people

01:04:38.100 and despised by the army

01:04:39.060 and fell victim to a conspiracy to murder.

01:04:42.340 So, you know, obviously Commodus

01:04:44.120 is in that movie Gladiator,

01:04:45.600 largely fictionalized,

01:04:47.720 not a lot of actual history in that movie but comet is being like a complete tool that everyone

01:04:52.440 hated uh yeah that that part is accurate it remains to be discussed the character of maximus

01:04:57.840 uh he was or maximinus uh he was extremely warlike and the armies being uh disgusted with the

01:05:05.260 effeminacy of alexander killed him and effect and elected maximinus to the throne he didn't keep it

01:05:10.800 for long for uh long for because two things brought hatred and contempt down on him everyone

01:05:17.540 knew about his lowly background and he uh he had been a mere sheep herder in thrace and when he

01:05:24.080 became emperor he didn't go to rome to be installed he had his prefects in rome and elsewhere do many

01:05:31.180 cruel things which earned him a reputation of the most ferocity so everyone was outraged by his

01:05:37.340 peasant origin and afraid of his barbarity first africa rebelled and then the senate with all the

01:05:42.500 people of rome and all italy conspired against him his army too they were besieged by aquila

01:05:47.620 and running into difficulties they were disgusted with his cruelty and when they found that he had

01:05:52.960 so many enemies they were emboldened to kill him i don't want to discuss the heligobulus

01:05:57.720 marcenius or julian they were all contemptible but didn't last long and were quickly wiped out

01:06:03.660 and i want to get finished with this topic i'll say this it's not nearly as hard for the prince

01:06:08.300 today to make their soldiers very satisfied with them they do have to make some concessions to them

01:06:13.860 but that but that the unrest in the army and and the and its cure doesn't last long none of its

01:06:20.360 none of today's princes have armies with long experience of controlling the administering

01:06:25.380 provinces and as did the armies of the roman empire back then satisfying the army uh had

01:06:30.620 precedence over satisfying the people whereas now all the armies except the turkish and the

01:06:34.720 egyptian sultans satisfy their people outranks uh out satisfying the people outrank satisfying

01:06:40.840 the army because the people are more powerful so he kind of gives you this well it used to be that

01:06:47.240 in the roman empire these armies had great power and they were used to like running these provinces

01:06:52.220 and having deep roots and having a lot of autonomy and so you had to keep the armies happy because

01:06:57.200 they had too much power too much control today you don't have these long-standing armies who

01:07:01.600 have been you know ruling a province for years and have you know roots in the community or anything

01:07:06.120 and so it's easier for you to just kind of worry more about the people because your armies are

01:07:10.700 never really strong enough to completely take over but returning to my topic what i have written

01:07:15.160 shows that uh what brought down each of these emperors was hatred or contempt and shows how

01:07:20.240 it came about that uh uh let's see oh a little bit of weird editing here in the uh version uh

01:07:29.640 what comes down to what it comes down to is this of the seven emperors Machiavelli has discussed

01:07:35.600 three uh approach the emperor's role in one way uh and four in a different way so the uh version

01:07:42.900 here is kind of breaking down Machiavelli's uh uh summary each approach uh led to just one good

01:07:49.180 upshot here's what Machiavelli had in mind you had the gentle who were successful Marcus Aurelius

01:07:55.140 and the gentle who are unsuccessful Pertinax and Alexander you had those that were rough and

01:07:59.960 successful which was Septimius and the unsuccessful Commodus Caracalla and Maximus that leaves the

01:08:07.120 five failures for Machiavelli to explain and he does so because Pertinax and Alexander were new

01:08:12.440 princes it was because it was useless and dangerous for them to model themselves on Marcus Aurelius

01:08:18.440 who had inherited his position as the prince it was utterly uh constructive of commodus caracalla

01:08:25.380 and maximinus to to imitate uh septimius because he didn't have enough virtue to enable them to

01:08:32.680 uh tread on tread in his footsteps so new prince can't imitate the actions of marcus but uh but

01:08:40.680 doesn't have to take septimius as a model either what he should do is take is take from sir uh uh

01:08:48.440 service and the courses of action that were necessary to found the state and for marcus the

01:08:54.380 ones that bring glory uh to the state that is already stable and firm so again it depends on

01:08:59.740 where you're at are you a legacy prince are you a new prince is your army more powerful less

01:09:05.820 powerful none of these are hard and fast rules they're general guidelines but you have to remember

01:09:09.980 who you're going to emulate is going to depend on what situation you're in all right guys we're

01:09:14.980 going to go ahead and check on oh we do have a question here we got questions of people let me

01:09:19.740 grab that real quick uh j warville says discipline is often considered cruel but you must be willing

01:09:27.280 to uh to be uh thought cruel to maintain discipline yes that is exactly what machiavilli

01:09:32.300 is laying out there yes it might be unpopular but remember like you don't want you don't actually

01:09:37.860 want the kid who thinks you're their best friend like your your job as a parent is not to be the

01:09:41.820 best friend. Your job is to be a good parent and do things that are necessary in order to protect

01:09:48.820 them and help them learn and raise them right. Your ultimate job is not to be popular with them,

01:09:57.500 though you still don't want them to hate you. Same with the ruler, right? Your job is to stay

01:10:02.620 in power and do good things for the country. And even if the people don't understand that at the

01:10:09.640 time, even if the nobles don't understand that at a time, as long as you are doing what needs to be

01:10:14.200 done, then you just need to go ahead and do it and move through that. Read more Rothbard with a

01:10:21.160 generous donation. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for helping me to understand the folly

01:10:25.320 of libertarianism. I discovered orthodoxy in 2020 after seeing all the churches closed, led me to

01:10:30.520 ask what is church live streamed on my couch. Have you considered a serious inquiry into orthodoxy?

01:10:35.880 come and see. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. I'm glad I was able to help

01:10:39.800 in any way. And yes, it was the closing of the churches that concerned me quite a bit. That was

01:10:44.960 really one of the things that spurred my kind of political awakening and going down this path and

01:10:51.020 looking at things that other people had not discussed or political theory and answers that

01:10:55.160 other people not addressed. When it comes to orthodoxy, I don't know that orthodox churches

01:11:01.780 were more open than other churches. Maybe they were. I just don't know enough about, honestly,

01:11:07.120 the comparison of Orthodox churches to other churches as to whether they stayed open.

01:11:10.700 I know plenty of evangelical churches in my area that did stay open, and I know plenty that closed.

01:11:15.700 That tended to be really more of a case-by-case, but I guess you'd expect that with Protestants, 0.97

01:11:19.940 right? That said, will I be looking into Orthodoxy? Probably not, honestly. It's not that I don't 0.64

01:11:26.320 think that other Christian traditions have a lot of wisdom in them. I use a lot of Catholic

01:11:31.620 philosophy obviously uh on this channel that kind of thing i'm you know i i appreciate many of the

01:11:36.640 rich practices of orthodoxy uh but i am someone who believes strongly uh in the faith of my fathers

01:11:43.180 and the faith of my fathers is evangelical christianity you know i'm a southern baptist

01:11:48.060 like my father and my father before him uh and so uh you know if i ultimately felt and who knows

01:11:55.400 maybe one day that will be true that i just i have to be you know that there's just so much

01:12:00.400 more truth than these other traditions, and I have to move over them than maybe I would.

01:12:05.080 But ultimately, I often make the joke, I am Protestant for the most orthodox reason ever,

01:12:14.600 because it is what my people do. And that's something I like about orthodoxy, that it is

01:12:19.780 ultimately practiced in this way that continues to honor Christ and is in line with the Christian

01:12:25.060 tradition, but still recognizes that peoples are different, ethnicities are different, nations are

01:12:29.440 different and it has like these you know different sections that reflect the fact that that's true

01:12:34.780 even though they're all still following orthodox christianity um and you know i think in in that

01:12:40.580 way i'm somewhat honoring that tradition by keeping the tradition of my people and still

01:12:45.440 being a christian right like that's you know now i understand that for some you have to be in the

01:12:50.340 catholic church or you have to be in uh the orthodox church um i don't think that's true

01:12:55.720 like which which which church was the the thief on the cross you know what which which which faith

01:13:03.360 uh tradition was he um what he needed was the blessing of the lord the calling of the lord and

01:13:08.560 the forgiveness that the lord gave um you know he was he wasn't a calvinist he wasn't orthodox he

01:13:13.880 wasn't catholic uh he was a follower of christ um now that doesn't mean that one church isn't right

01:13:19.600 or wrong uh that doesn't mean we can't debate issues of theology that there isn't a truth that

01:13:23.800 you should follow ultimately uh but i i do believe that it is it is faith in christ that saves you

01:13:30.100 um and not uh you know current membership in any particular church though you should be a member

01:13:36.300 of a church that is something you are called to do uh as a christian um but i again thank you very

01:13:42.280 much for that and uh maybe one day a lot of people asking me about you know catholicism or orthodoxy

01:13:48.680 But I will probably continue to stick with the faith of my fathers.

01:13:53.180 All right, guys, thank you so much for coming by.

01:13:56.520 I really like going through this political theory.

01:13:59.700 You know, the day to day stuff is fine.

01:14:01.560 We got to do the news when the news is big.

01:14:03.400 But this is this is this is why I started the channel.

01:14:05.980 This is what I want to do.

01:14:07.180 This is the fun stuff for me.

01:14:09.920 And again, if you want to catch all of these in order, there is that playlist playlist on YouTube.

01:14:14.720 so you can make sure that you're basically just reading the prints along with me uh if it's your

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01:14:46.140 also don't forget the new edition of the total state is now available so if you want to get

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01:14:56.100 chapter that comes in the new edition you can go check that out now thank you everybody for

01:14:59.580 watching as always i'll talk to you next time

The Auron MacIntyre Show - May 04, 2026

Machiavelli： Why It's Better to Be Feared Than Loved ｜ 5⧸1⧸26

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