The Auron MacIntyre Show - Meek Not Weak： The End of Loser Christianity ｜ Guest： Chase Davis ｜ 2⧸14⧸25

00:00:00.000 We hope you're enjoying your Air Canada flight.

00:00:02.320 Rocky's Vacation, here we come.

00:00:05.060 Whoa, is this economy?

00:00:07.180 Free beer, wine, and snacks.

00:00:09.620 Sweet! 0.95

00:00:10.720 Fast-free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land.

00:00:14.760 And with live TV, I'm not missing the game.

00:00:17.800 It's kind of like, I'm already on vacation.

00:00:20.980 Nice! 0.94

00:00:22.240 On behalf of Air Canada, nice travels.

00:00:25.260 Wi-Fi available to Airplane members on Equipped Flight.

00:00:27.340 Sponsored by Bell. Conditions apply.

00:00:28.580 See AirCanada.com.

00:00:30.000 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.880 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.480 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.780 We've heard for a long time, unfortunately a large amount of my lifetime,

00:00:42.500 that Christianity, especially when we're hearing about it from the left,

00:00:46.360 is this theory that you should never have any power, never have any authority,

00:00:52.000 never have any cultural influence.

00:00:54.220 You should be weak.

00:00:55.580 You should be completely dominated.

00:00:57.140 These are all the doctrines that the left seems to pull out of Christianity.

00:01:01.740 And now, in this moment where we seem to be shifting back a little bit,

00:01:06.700 where people are recognizing that actually Christianity does have an important role to play

00:01:11.420 in the culture, that authority is a natural part of Christianity,

00:01:16.160 that hierarchies are a natural part of the world that God created,

00:01:20.180 and that it's okay to recognize that these things have a role in public life.

00:01:24.140 All of a sudden, we're hearing that this is somehow heresy, that this is all made up, 0.78

00:01:29.640 that people who are trying to put Nietzsche into your gospel or something ridiculous like that.

00:01:35.460 And recently, Chase Davis did a great article on The Blaze addressing this issue.

00:01:41.780 He's a pastor and he's the host of Full Proof Theology, which I've been a guest on a few times.

00:01:46.720 It's a great podcast. I encourage you to check it out.

00:01:49.640 And he's going to join me today to kind of talk about what the case he put forward in that article.

00:01:54.480 So, Chase, thank you so much for coming on, man.

00:01:56.600 Hey, glad to be here, man. Thanks for having me.

00:01:58.840 Absolutely. So let's just start from the beginning.

00:02:01.760 You know, we hear very often that the only role that Christians can play is basically the whipping dog of the left, right? 0.93

00:02:10.720 That they don't like Christianity. They hate Christianity. It's evil and demonic and they want to destroy it. 0.99

00:02:17.420 But also, it's really important that you listen to it when they rephrase all of its teachings to tell you to be subservient to them.

00:02:25.020 So I guess we could start at the beginning.

00:02:28.320 Why did this idea, the way that this is framed for Christians, where did this come about?

00:02:35.680 Why has this become so popular? And often it is even regurgitated in many pulpits across the United States.

00:02:42.600 Yeah, I mean, it's a big question. We could go back a long time.

00:02:45.860 I mean, it's been kind of a prevailing theme in Christian preaching for the last century, at least, in pulpits and seminaries and books.

00:02:54.980 This idea that somehow Christians having power is not good or we shouldn't be just confident in our Christianity and asserting our will in politics and culture as Christians forthrightly.

00:03:09.200 You know, I tend to go more philosophical in terms of like where it came about, whether it's the Enlightenment or Romanticism.

00:03:16.200 But in the preaching going back into the 18th century, mainly, you see a lot of the rise of feminism in the church.

00:03:23.160 You see a lot of the church kind of like getting really distracted.

00:03:28.080 One example, it becomes more pragmatic. Church becomes more about pragmatism.

00:03:32.500 So you could talk about revivalism with Charles Finney up in the Northeast and how a lot of the emphasis of Christian preaching and a lot of the emphasis of Christianity was a motive.

00:03:42.880 Mainly, it was mainly to be kind of a spiritual antidepressant to give you good feelings about your suffering.

00:03:52.160 And so it was in a large way, it was like a cope, a giant cope.

00:03:56.220 And people have been picking up on this for a while.

00:03:58.880 One of the most insightful people that's picked up on it, obviously, is Christians.

00:04:02.740 There's places we can't go with him at all.

00:04:04.820 But Nietzsche was criticizing this when he saw it in Germany and, you know, German liberalism and all that kind of stuff.

00:04:10.160 And so he was critiquing Christianity from this angle, saying, what do Christians have to offer?

00:04:14.800 Now, if we go back further than that, if we go back earlier than the 18th century ago, centuries prior, we see Christians are not ashamed of having political power, of operating prudentially in governance and culture, being accommodating and tolerant of various, whether it's sex or even other religions in different nations and times and places, depending on the context.

00:04:35.460 And so really what that's turned into today, though, is a version of Christianity where most of it is very coded towards a feminist framework for how we view life.

00:04:47.500 So it's very womanly. A lot of the sermons are very womanly.

00:04:50.980 In fact, it was just funny. I was watching a silly like Instagram reel comparing guys and girls at the gym this morning and guys, when they go to the gym, they're typically like, do better.

00:05:00.660 Your family's going to die. You know, you've got to be strong.

00:05:03.160 You've got to defeat your enemies. And girls that go to the gym, they're trying to like comfort themselves and like, you're enough and you're enough. 0.95

00:05:09.360 And this is what you see in a lot of Christian literature is it's very feminine coded.

00:05:12.400 It's very much like you're enough. It's OK.

00:05:15.460 Like it's a very much like an antidepressant, like I already said.

00:05:18.620 And I think there needs to be a kind of a recapture of the spirit.

00:05:21.540 That's not new. It's not a new marketing ploy.

00:05:23.500 But going back to Christians and how they preached and taught and understood their faith for centuries before kind of this weird deformation of Christian teaching and preaching was very much assertive.

00:05:35.300 It was very much confrontational. You're a sinner. You're going to go to hell.

00:05:39.240 You need to aspire to righteousness and holiness and repent of your sins. 0.79

00:05:43.360 These are just clear things that nobody was ashamed.

00:05:45.960 Nobody called that like fundamentalism. That's scary.

00:05:48.000 It was just like normal preaching. And so there needs to be kind of a resurgence of that.

00:05:52.420 And so, like I said, you go philosophical, you go just like normal cultural stuff now where a lot of like even Christian publishers are just promoting books that are very watered down Christianity on pietism and kind of this other worldliness.

00:06:06.980 This how this theory that this world is not our home.

00:06:10.280 We don't really have any stake here. We don't need to make the world a better place.

00:06:13.540 Let go and let God. All of these different aberrations of our faith have been really.

00:06:18.000 really bad. They've been really bad for helping Christians understand the times we live in and how to engage them wisely. 0.78

00:06:24.500 Yeah, there's always this confusion because, of course, you know, the Bible itself is written in a time in which Christianity is not dominant because obviously it's just starting.

00:06:34.220 The Christian revolution would eventually conquer Rome, but at the time it was a religion of minorities. 0.65

00:06:40.920 It was persecuted, these things. And so that is the focus of the Bible.

00:06:44.540 And you even have early church fathers after Christianity conquers the Roman Empire, like Augustine, who are writing about the city of God in a way that is understanding that a falling Roman Empire doesn't mean that the kingdom of Christ is coming to an end, that these are not necessarily the same thing.

00:07:03.320 But oftentimes, because these are the examples that are brought early on, people act as if Christianity never had this period of world dominance.

00:07:13.320 When we talk about the West, people say the West, Western countries, what they're talking about is Christendom.

00:07:19.320 What they mean is the countries that were united through through Christian faith, often with an influence of European heritage, but predominantly those that were united through Christian faith.

00:07:32.360 And this didn't just happen because Christians were weak, because they did nothing but suffer, because they were quiet in the closet and simply using Christianity as some kind of way to cope with a difficult world. 0.91

00:07:46.100 You know, the Christianity of Charles Martel or Constantine is not a weak Christianity, and it's very confusing because even modern critics, you brought up Nietzsche, and there are many descendants of Nietzscheans calling themselves pagan at this point.

00:08:04.380 But they'll say, oh, well, Christianity is the issue. That's why we got wokeness. That's why we're in this situation that we're in. And the answer is, well, no, because everything you love about the West, quote unquote, is tied to its Christian heritage. 0.77

00:08:19.440 And so there must be something about Christianity that is able to invigorate a society, to point it towards the good, to create a robust and natural hierarchy that leads us toward the things of both God and things that create a well-ordered society that has to exist or wouldn't have dominated as much as it did throughout the centuries.

00:08:40.640 And so I just don't know if you want to touch on that a little bit. Where did we lose this idea that this religion and culture that dominated the world and mastered so much of the known world for well over a century was always this religion that was only based on losing at any given time?

00:09:01.120 Yeah, there's lots of threads you could point to. I mean, I know some have pointed to kind of the end of World War Two and whatever political arrangements were were birthed out of that or even liberalism going back to, you know, the the religious wars in Europe and trying to settle peace there between different factions within Protestantism.

00:09:19.540 But I really do think it was it was mainly a 20th century phenomenon where the soil was already laid in universities to take advantage of Christianity.

00:09:29.000 Christianity is what gave birth to the United States, like you said, Christendom in the West.

00:09:35.140 And so when we had a society that was open in a sense, open meaning there's a dominant culture, but there's going to be carve outs and exceptions for various factions or whatever it might be.

00:09:47.060 That that that that was somewhat maintainable. And then that was taken advantage of by various factions, particularly liberals who wanted to recreate the world and wanted to recreate the government, culture, arts, all that kind of stuff.

00:10:03.480 And so it really came full bloom in my mind in the 60s, where you have kind of this feminist framework.

00:10:09.240 You have the rise even back then, it's kind of proto critical race theory, all that kind of stuff.

00:10:15.080 But in the 60s, with the cultural revolution that's been unfolding since for the last 60 years, there's been an eagerness for these radicals in the universities to get in there and begin to tinker with the faith.

00:10:29.140 And you see this in seminaries, too. You see this in a fuller seminary is a great example.

00:10:33.280 Fuller seminary started out as a good, solid biblical seminary, and then it was taken over by radicals.

00:10:38.640 You've seen it most recently in the last week, as has been made clear that it's been going on for a while at a place like Wheaton, what used to be called the Harvard of evangelicalism.

00:10:48.380 And so what these radicals will do is they'll get into power and institutions and they'll hollow it out.

00:10:53.000 And I know you've talked about this and they'll just use the trappings of Christianity to say this is what you should believe as a Christian.

00:10:59.620 And you should always, you know, love your neighbor doesn't mean what the Bible means.

00:11:04.200 We're not going to tell you that. We're just going to say it means take this medicine or it means approve of this marriage or it means this.

00:11:12.020 That's what love means. And so in my mind, I don't know that it was so much like going back to the 18th, 17th century that it was so prevalent.

00:11:20.540 There were definitely signs of it with revivalism, but particularly in the 60s and with these radicals taking over various Christian institutions, including seminaries and then book publishing as well.

00:11:31.480 They're starting to warp the faith into a doormat religion, which is, and that's what I try to say. 1.00

00:11:38.040 It is a fair critique if you look at the broad landscape of evangelicalism at large, but it's not representative of our faith and it doesn't need to be this way.

00:11:45.600 And so what we're trying to do is encourage pastors, Christians say, look, what you've been told, I know it has a lot of like sentimentality to you when you read someone like David Platt and his book Radical.

00:11:56.560 And you think the best thing to do is just kind of like give up everything because making money is bad and going to the nations is good and missionaries are good, but there is no sense of will and agency in a lot of these teachings.

00:12:09.080 In fact, I think it was the late Tim Keller who advocated that the best thing you could do with power is to give it away.

00:12:14.240 And all this kind of weird relationship with Christianity and power has been undergoing, it's been going on since the 60s at least, but it's been getting a serious reevaluation since 2020 in my mind.

00:12:29.160 I know there were guys reevaluating it before then and early to that kind of reevaluation.

00:12:33.140 But since 2020, all of a sudden you've seen on what they call the Christian right, a kind of like, wow, this is like, this is really bad.

00:12:41.420 This is not, we're going to get run over.

00:12:43.000 We're going to continue to get run over.

00:12:44.320 And it kind of maps on, I mean, I know you've talked about it with kind of the neocon movement and that kind of thing.

00:12:49.640 But it's also happening in the pastor and in the pulpit and even in the churches where they're dominated by the kind of the sentimentality, this coexist Christianity, this keep your faith in your home and in your, in your church.

00:13:01.660 And that's it.

00:13:02.340 It shouldn't come into the public square.

00:13:03.720 You see politicians taught this way where they're afraid that somebody is going to accuse them of bringing Christianity into politics.

00:13:08.920 And they sheepishly go, no, I would never do that.

00:13:11.080 You know, I got to, I got to check it.

00:13:12.540 And, you know, we, we, we're about liberalism here.

00:13:15.100 And so you see all this stuff going on, but I think in the last four years, this seems to me to be a great deal of interest, not just from Christians, but from others.

00:13:22.760 Like you mentioned the Nietzscheans or whoever, also on the left, liberals who are fed up with tyranny and government overreach.

00:13:29.360 They're very interested in like, so you, you think Christianity has something to say about this?

00:13:32.740 Absolutely.

00:13:33.280 I do.

00:13:33.620 I think we have a rich faith that we have a wonderful, we have the word of God and we can understand it and we can divide it and see what to do in these types of situations.

00:13:42.600 And so I think there's a great opportunity today to reach people.

00:13:45.240 And that's why I like to write on this stuff.

00:13:47.620 Yeah.

00:13:48.000 There's a very interesting transition.

00:13:49.620 You talked already about the radicals entering into seminaries and these institutions and subverting the faith in a very real way.

00:13:58.440 And of course, that's a huge part of it.

00:14:00.160 We also saw the, I would say the perversion of the gospel into a social gospel, right?

00:14:08.500 We don't have to care about Christ.

00:14:10.220 We don't have to care about his actual message.

00:14:12.040 We're going to avoid all the parts of the Bible that talk about particularity and exclusion and sin.

00:14:18.060 The gospel is about tolerance.

00:14:20.820 It's about love.

00:14:21.780 It's about acceptance and all situations for everyone.

00:14:25.480 And this dovetailed a lot with the civil rights movements and the different, you know, the different waves of that that came.

00:14:31.840 Each excessive one straining against the Christian message more and more, but still calling on it on a regular basis.

00:14:37.800 I think that's why Martin Luther King's pastorship is played down so much now.

00:14:43.940 Unless it's time to start beating people over the head with the Christian message, which he didn't actually believe.

00:14:50.360 He didn't believe in the deity of Christ, along with many other personal moral problems with Martin Luther King Jr.

00:14:57.920 But you can kind of see how the shell game is played.

00:15:00.820 He's a doctor when most of the time when we're trying to secularize this message.

00:15:05.380 But he becomes a reverend when it's time to kind of concern troll Christians, try to pull this moral blackmail on them.

00:15:13.020 Another thing that happened simultaneously with this shift, I noticed, and this is when I grew up.

00:15:18.120 So this was very much in the forefront of my mind was this idea of the moral majority and the satanic panic and the religious right.

00:15:26.160 And these are all the things that are censorious and hold our society down.

00:15:30.760 And these are the people who are intolerant and they're keeping us from achieving our true liberal utopia.

00:15:37.220 And it's a very awkward relic because in a way this manifestation of Christian power politically was actually the weakest form of Christian Christianity to ever enter in the public square. 0.54

00:15:51.500 It's made up by like MTV and VH1, whatever, and they're like documentaries as this incredible force that was stifling all of free speech.

00:16:00.380 But really, it was the last gasp of public Christian sentiment.

00:16:05.940 It was it was is in many ways a lot of scared grandmas recognizing that their children may not their grandchildren may not be raised with the values that they recognize as being important.

00:16:16.340 And so the adjustment of this media portrayal of the Christian right was for many pastors to be really embarrassed of the idea of public Christianity.

00:16:29.160 Oh, no, we can't assert power.

00:16:30.880 We can't ask for particular things inside our culture because that makes us the fuddy toddies.

00:16:37.080 We're the we're the we're John Lithgow and Footloose.

00:16:39.280 We're the we're the buzz kills.

00:16:40.860 We need to make, you know, hip Christian music videos and whatever.

00:16:44.020 I mock this as I listen to Christian metal, but you know what I'm talking about here, right?

00:16:48.260 Like this was the attitude is is this sad cloying.

00:16:53.220 Oh, me, too.

00:16:54.160 Please.

00:16:54.540 It's a little little embarrassing kid who's pulling on his his brother's shirt saying, please include me.

00:17:00.160 Please include me.

00:17:01.060 And this was really the attitude that has been carried all the way up till just a few years ago in the Christian community that, you know, Christian culture.

00:17:09.820 Maybe we make these little kind of ghettoized Christian films or books.

00:17:13.580 And every once in a while, if a Christian artist breaks through into the mainstream, that's really exciting.

00:17:17.960 But the idea that Christian culture would be the dominant culture, that it would be the ideas that drive the values and the moral vision of our united culture forward really was something that Christians were embarrassed about.

00:17:33.280 It's not just that they couldn't obtain it.

00:17:35.420 It's that they were taught that they shouldn't want to obtain it.

00:17:38.920 Yeah.

00:17:39.500 And a lot of pastors were taught also that this was a major problem, right?

00:17:42.860 Christian culture is a major problem. 1.00

00:17:44.160 It should be kind of burned down. 1.00

00:17:45.580 They're embarrassed by Bible Belt Christianity. 1.00

00:17:47.840 A lot of people have said, like, good riddance to Bible Belt Christianity.

00:17:51.100 They view it as backwards, as legalistic, as constraining.

00:17:55.180 And that's another thing you'll notice typically with people who are against power, will, agency within the Christian community and pastors encouraging other men to have to just use their agency and will to go out and start a new business, find a wife, have children, interact in the public square, engage politically.

00:18:12.280 They very much hate that Christian culture. 1.00

00:18:14.480 What's interesting to me, Oren, is back when the Puritans, Protestants, who were asserting their will and who had kind of cultural hegemony at the time, they also had the problem of nominalism in the Anglican church.

00:18:27.100 And they didn't go like, well, I guess we should burn it all down.

00:18:30.520 I guess nothing matters anymore.

00:18:32.120 I guess we should not try.

00:18:33.920 They said, great, we have the exact tool we need to deal with nominalism.

00:18:37.780 Nominalism being kind of this cultural Christianity where somebody may not be a Christian for whatever reason.

00:18:43.560 They just kind of show up to church and they really don't follow Jesus.

00:18:46.900 Well, guess what?

00:18:47.460 They're coming to church and what a great place to hear the truth of the gospel that you need to be born again.

00:18:51.900 You need to repent of your sins, be made a new creation in Jesus Christ and put your faith in him and be baptized.

00:18:57.020 So they were not afraid of their agency, of their power.

00:19:00.760 They spoke on behalf of their nation.

00:19:02.520 They called their nations to repentance.

00:19:04.480 So we just live in very confused times.

00:19:06.200 And I think a lot of it comes from kind of a managerial approach to Christianity.

00:19:10.340 Like I said, in the latter half of the 20th century, and you highlighted it with the churches in this seeker sensitive approach where the main thing we got to be about is a market share and whatever market share we can retain. 0.91

00:19:21.720 You've heard people like Tim Keller talk about this, Rick Warren talk about this, a lot of famous pastors who get elevated seem to be saying the same thing, that in order to either reach the next generation, we've got to approve of this, or in order to reach the next generation, we've got to make sure that we don't speak too harshly against this.

00:19:40.360 And so what they end up doing is like taking down crosses and churches, they end up hiding their denominational name and their church name.

00:19:48.080 And so they sense a great deal of embarrassment, not just because culture is out there telling them, but they do genuinely want to reach the lost.

00:19:56.020 But they've adapted kind of a seeker sensitive business model to church, where they've got people who are deeply confused coming to their church.

00:20:03.540 And instead of just telling them the truth from God's word, they want them to kind of stay and hang out.

00:20:08.580 And maybe they'll like, you know, bump into Jesus one day and, you know, they'll find Christianity better.

00:20:13.720 And I'm like, yeah, man, like, just go for it.

00:20:16.020 You have, if you're a pastor specifically, like you have nothing to fear, except for God himself who judges the living and the dead.

00:20:23.580 And so you should be bold, you should be courageous, and you should be preaching the full counsel of the word of God and the gospel.

00:20:29.680 And so I think that for a lot of pastors, they adopted this subconsciously.

00:20:32.900 They were trained in seminary.

00:20:34.440 All the biggest evangelical publishers pushed this.

00:20:36.960 I mean, Rick Warren's book was huge.

00:20:38.500 And you kind of see where he ends up marching in a BLM rally with a mask on.

00:20:42.580 And so like while all the way claiming that he's third way, which is wild to me that he can't see the inconsistency.

00:20:49.320 But that's the predominant mood for a lot of evangelicals where it has been.

00:20:53.380 And like you highlighted, and when 2020 hit and people realized how dire the situation is, people were willing to go, maybe I've been lied to.

00:21:01.780 Maybe like what I was taught Christianity is all about in terms of my marriage, my home, my work, and our political establishment and culture.

00:21:09.640 What if like, what if pagan cultural, what if cultural paganism is worse than cultural Christianity?

00:21:15.380 And so how might we rediscover what it looks like to advocate for the things of God publicly to when we pray, your will be done, your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.

00:21:26.800 What would that actually look like in practice rather than just praying it in our hearts and our homes and our churches?

00:21:31.320 What would it look like to engage in the public square in a different way than simply this subservient, woe is me, I'm so scared, please don't hurt me.

00:21:39.220 And then we go to church and your message is like, I know you're hurt.

00:21:41.500 The other thing I want to highlight, Orin, is that for a lot of Christians, they've been taught wrongly about persecution to where they view persecution as kind of the end all be all of the Christian faith.

00:21:51.400 Like we're, we're designed to be persecuted.

00:21:53.620 And it goes back to what you highlighted at the beginning of the episode, that somehow persecution is inherently like a virtue.

00:21:59.740 And of course we can look to Tertullian and other church fathers, and we can look to church history, that martyrdom and Christianity is typically honored and revered.

00:22:07.840 And we celebrate these men who are courageous and died for our faith, but we don't make that out to be somehow like the goal of the Christian faith.

00:22:15.240 The goal of the Christian faith is not persecution.

00:22:17.960 It's not to be persecuted.

00:22:19.220 I, you know, and unfortunately many Christians have this backwards when, when Christ and the apostles, when God's word speaks to persecution, it's meant to be comforting to those who are being persecuted, but not act as if persecution is good in and of itself.

00:22:33.840 God can use it for his glory and he does, but persecution is not some like goal of Christianity.

00:22:39.300 I think that's a fallacy that many Christians have adopted. 0.85

00:22:42.380 Get unlimited grocery delivery with PCX Press Pass.

00:22:45.820 Meal prep, delivered.

00:22:47.680 Snacks, delivered.

00:22:49.220 Fresh fruit, delivered.

00:22:51.380 Grocery delivery, on repeat for just $2.50 a month.

00:22:55.120 Learn more at pcexpress.ca.

00:22:57.300 Yeah, remind me to come back to that, because there's a lot I wanted to talk about in what you just said there, and that's just one of the many things.

00:23:03.700 So to rewind just before that point, you highlighted the fact that many people who are against cultural Christianity also then have this kind of very wishy-washy, I mean, frankly, weak approach to their own delivery once people are in the door.

00:23:22.260 And it's very strange because, as you say, they think, well, if you hang out enough in a church, then maybe you'll just kind of catch God, right?

00:23:29.540 But they don't think that about culture.

00:23:31.940 Like, everyone recognizes that if you're at this point, that if your child sits through 12, 13 years of public school education in which it gets a very particular delivery of woke doctrine, anti-white, anti-Christian stuff, all the stuff that gets pushed around in public schools today.

00:23:49.380 By the way, Christopher Rufo is over on Twitter just posting all the horrific stuff that Department of Education funds.

00:23:55.400 Yeah, it's just absolutely insane.

00:23:57.380 I'll definitely be doing an episode on that soon.

00:23:59.620 But, you know, we all recognize that marinating in this indoctrination for 12 or 13 years fundamentally changes the outlook of a child, shapes their worldview.

00:24:10.540 This is why the left has fought for this control for so long, why they've worked to push Christianity out of the public square. 0.96

00:24:18.800 And then you have these guys who turn around and say, OK, but yeah, cultural Christianity just doesn't matter.

00:24:24.940 OK, so why does why does 14, 13, 14 years of public school education shape somebody in one direction?

00:24:31.100 But it can't shape you towards Christianity.

00:24:33.720 Like I get the problem in theory of cultural Christianity.

00:24:37.280 You have a lot of people who, you know, go through the motions and say they're Christian when they're not because it's just socially advantageous.

00:24:44.280 I understand that there's some level of problem with that.

00:24:49.400 However, there's a much bigger problem in people who would rather mouth the pronouncements of wokeness and be steeped in the values of wokeness.

00:24:58.320 It is important and critical for people to come to a saving knowledge of Christ.

00:25:03.320 But even living, even mimicking Christian principles and family structures and values has a positive effect on individuals, families and societies before they achieve that full communion with Christ.

00:25:18.160 Other than cowardice, I cannot find an explanation for this dichotomy between the idea that cultural Christianity doesn't do anything positive, but cultural leftism or wokeism or progressivism indoctrinates people deeply into its own faith.

00:25:37.620 How can these things coexist?

00:25:40.300 It just doesn't make any sense to me.

00:25:42.080 Yeah, and I think it comes back to that framework of liberalism, the ideals of liberalism when it comes to kind of the neutral public square and the role of Christianity in that kind of environment.

00:25:52.280 And a lot of these pastors have just adopted kind of this vision of Christianity as perpetual loserdom, where, you know, the only good thing you can do, like you'll hear pastors encourage people to go into the public schools and Christian children into the public school to be missionaries.

00:26:07.620 And they're leading children to the slaughter, sheep to the slaughter, these innocent children, to go into the public schools thinking your six-year-old is going to go evangelize this radical that got trained at a public university in wokeness and DEI.

00:26:19.300 That's just laughable.

00:26:20.660 Now, there may be some exceptions to this out there, but that's insane.

00:26:25.520 Even more so with that kind of education, I mean, fundamentally, it is devoid of God.

00:26:30.340 It is an atheistic education.

00:26:32.020 And we could say the same thing about a lot of media, even a lot of the, I enjoy watching movies.

00:26:36.120 Most of them have zero mention of God.

00:26:38.340 It's a completely materialist framework.

00:26:40.260 And when you adopt that, you start adopting the language and the framework of that cultural viewpoint.

00:26:44.920 And you think you're going to, you know, bathe yourself in all these movies, literature, and music, and all of a sudden show up on Sunday one day a week.

00:26:53.480 And that's going to be sufficient for you to not adopt that stuff.

00:26:57.260 Even as an adult, that's challenging.

00:26:59.220 And you're talking about children who you're just giving over to Caesar, as I think is Bodie Bauckham says.

00:27:05.820 Don't be surprised when you give your child over to Caesar that he doesn't come home a Roman, right? 0.99

00:27:10.300 That he doesn't come home and he advocates for Caesar's ways.

00:27:13.000 And so it's laughable.

00:27:15.360 And I think there is a bit of cowardice in there. 0.91

00:27:17.120 But I think even more than that, they have a vision of Christianity.

00:27:21.020 I don't want to say it's heretical because that would be, I don't know these people that well.

00:27:25.700 At the same time, like, it is so bad.

00:27:29.340 It's such a deformation of our faith that I think there is a worship going on of some kind of liberalism, liberal ideal, of kind of this free market of ideas.

00:27:40.700 And we can't assert ourselves too strong.

00:27:42.740 You see this even the way they write articles.

00:27:44.820 They typically view everyone as like a good faith conversation.

00:27:48.940 And they don't have a framework for even having enemies.

00:27:52.280 They'll talk about enemies, but all of our enemies are spiritual powers.

00:27:55.700 That are not material, don't manifest themselves materially.

00:28:00.280 And so they don't even have a framework to engage reality.

00:28:02.960 There are people out here who want to stamp out Christianity.

00:28:06.220 There are people in America who want all Christians to go away, want Christianity to go away, and want to cause harm.

00:28:12.560 They don't have a framework for that.

00:28:13.740 They would look at that person and go, what should a Christian do? 0.99

00:28:17.760 Well, I guess we should die. 0.99

00:28:20.100 That's the only category they have to think about this stuff. 0.97

00:28:23.040 And I think that's so dangerous.

00:28:25.440 I mean, literally dangerous, not just for our society, but for people.

00:28:30.300 These are real people we're sending out into workplaces, into vocations, thinking we can just show up.

00:28:35.180 And the best thing you can do is get persecuted and die.

00:28:37.940 What an abysmal view of your life.

00:28:39.780 That is not the vision that God has for humanity and for people to have human flourishing, as it's often said.

00:28:46.420 That's not the vision that God gives us in his word for what he designed the world to be.

00:28:52.180 Yeah, which, you know, to go back to your earlier point there about persecution, there, as you said, there is this idea that the persecuted Christian is the only Christian.

00:29:03.820 That that's the only true Christianity that those who are seeking to wield power for the good of their family or community are denying the true Christian path of martyrdom, these kind of things.

00:29:17.440 And it's interesting because you've already pointed out this is a time in Christianity, right?

00:29:23.240 Like this is a time where and martyrdom has come in many forms across many different cultures and time frames.

00:29:30.500 But the fact that this is what is happening again was, as we already acknowledged, this was, you know, Christianity is an underground religion.

00:29:36.660 It is an outsider religion. 0.98

00:29:38.300 It is a persecuted religion in the Bible.

00:29:40.380 This then becomes the only identity that the Christian can have. 0.99

00:29:44.120 And I've noticed that this is a larger problem, especially when it comes to masculinity in Christianity.

00:29:49.340 Because, of course, Christ had many different teachings and actions that help us to understand how we should behave, that we can model ourselves after.

00:29:59.780 But the Bible does not provide Christ in all of these situations, right?

00:30:05.780 Jesus was never a biological father.

00:30:08.980 Jesus was never a soldier for his country.

00:30:11.840 He did not condemn these things.

00:30:13.940 He did not think they were evil because he did not engage in them when he was on earth.

00:30:18.800 In fact, you think of the centurion, right?

00:30:21.160 Yeah, you know, I'm a man under authority.

00:30:22.920 I understand this works.

00:30:23.720 I have not seen faith like this, you know, in all of the Jewish people.

00:30:28.160 Like he sees something deeply respectable in the centurion.

00:30:31.560 He tells the rich man to go sell him everything.

00:30:33.760 He doesn't tell the centurion to stop fighting.

00:30:35.920 You know, that's always been a distinction that mattered to me.

00:30:39.060 And so it's clear for me that Jesus understands the, you know, need for masculine protection, fathers, protections of nations, duties, hierarchies, authority.

00:30:51.780 Like he respects these things.

00:30:53.480 He understands these things.

00:30:55.000 He wields these things in different opportunities.

00:30:57.200 But he's not always directly one-to-one demonstrating these things throughout his life because those just weren't roles that he filled while he was here doing his earthly ministry.

00:31:07.040 He had some important things to do.

00:31:08.640 You know, he didn't quite get around to them.

00:31:10.820 But it does lead me, it does feel like it leads a lot of people into this weird scenario where they're like, well, because Jesus wasn't a soldier, being a soldier is wrong.

00:31:22.100 Because Jesus wasn't a father, there is no valuable biological masculinity that Christians can manifest. 0.99

00:31:29.640 You know, because, you know, Jesus didn't do these direct things or because, for instance, the Christians of the New Testament weren't in charge politically, then that's the only mode in which Christians can exist in.

00:31:44.880 Just because it wasn't directly depicted in the Bible, therefore, there's no application of Christianity that we can understand in these moments that aren't depicted in the Bible.

00:31:54.020 And I've just always found that weird because pastors have no problem stretching and contorting pretty much every verse or two in the Bible into larger lessons in the modern day.

00:32:04.060 But for some reason, we can't just take the lessons that Christ taught us about right order, hierarchy, and masculinity and take them into these scenarios where we have political power or we are soldiers or we are fathers.

00:32:18.380 These things that aren't directly modeled by Christ, but are obviously spoken on and that he would have a correct way for us to do this if we pay attention to his teachings.

00:32:29.160 Yeah, you see this often where people talk about they just want to get back to first century Christianity, you know, and there's a sentimentality there where they want to strip down the Christian faith to the basics.

00:32:37.780 They're tired of the show.

00:32:38.940 They're tired of the performative nature.

00:32:40.620 And they just want to, like, have community first century.

00:32:43.140 And I'm like, dude, like, first of all, you don't even have a toilet.

00:32:45.640 Second, like, you're going to be persecuted left and right.

00:32:47.660 Like, you don't want to get back to that.

00:32:48.980 And that's not the ideal.

00:32:50.100 There's kind of this utopian kind of, I would even call it socialistic reading that a lot of people, young people, especially if they've gone to a public university, have of the life of Christ.

00:33:02.100 And so you're right.

00:33:02.740 When we look at the life of Christ, every gospel writer is trying to emphasize how we can understand him as Lord and Savior.

00:33:08.700 Each gospel writer is going to have a different emphasis in there.

00:33:11.200 But they're highlighting various stories from the life of Christ in order to highlight that he was the Son of God, that he came to save the world, that he died for the sins of the world, and he was on a particular mission.

00:33:21.940 And when we take that gospel account and then we kind of, you know, read it through a modern lens that's very feminized, it's very easy to get to places you're seeing today.

00:33:32.300 Instead, when we look at the life of Christ in the gospels, we should understand it in context.

00:33:36.460 We shouldn't diminish his humanity by reducing him to, like, well, Jesus said this one time, and that means that anytime I'm in a physical altercation, like, I couldn't even, like, go practice jujitsu.

00:33:49.300 Like, I can't retaliate ever.

00:33:51.300 There's no, like, there's nothing about that that I can be, that a Christian can do.

00:33:56.040 And so we end up really, like, having a really bad understanding of, and this starts in seminaries, but you have a bad understanding of Christianity.

00:34:03.580 When you look at the entire Word of God and you understand the people of God in the Old Testament, the people of God in the New Testament, even the apostles, how Paul used political, his agency and power to get to Rome when he was being persecuted, you start to understand the life of Christ more dynamically because it is important that he came as a man.

00:34:24.020 A lot of people try to downplay the importance of masculinity by, like you said, diminishing that he didn't have children, he wasn't married, but the reality is he did come as a man.

00:34:34.240 And that actually has great significance to our faith because he's the second Adam.

00:34:38.260 And so when we look at the life of Christ for masculinity, we have to look at the full corpus, the great example.

00:34:44.380 And I think many Christians are uncomfortable going here because they don't, they really do uphold the Word of God.

00:34:49.420 They respect the Word of God.

00:34:50.340 They go, how can the same man who advocated for foot washing and turn the other cheek, go outside the temple, make a whip with his own hands, and then go into the temple, flip tables, and use that whip to drive out other people?

00:35:05.440 What are we to do with that?

00:35:06.800 Is Jesus a giant contradiction, an enigma that we can never solve?

00:35:11.280 Do we need to problematize Jesus?

00:35:13.480 And is he just kind of this mystery?

00:35:15.040 No, like we can understand this is a dynamic, fully God, fully man, son of God.

00:35:21.060 And he came to save the world, and he's on his particular mission.

00:35:24.980 And just using those two examples, we can kind of walk and chew gum at the same time, as they say.

00:35:30.840 We can understand that, like, look, there's a lot more wisdom from the life of Christ than you've probably been given.

00:35:37.560 And on top of that, many Christians and even just kind of cultural Christians or even people outside of Christianity read God's Word as if it's kind of a law book.

00:35:46.480 So they're looking for right and wrong, which is fine.

00:35:49.140 It's a bit childish, but it's fine.

00:35:50.900 I mean, there is right and wrong in the Bible, no doubt.

00:35:53.040 There are clear laws you cannot violate, but there's also wisdom in the Bible.

00:35:57.060 And what we miss is that Christ is the fulfillment of wisdom, that he gives us wisdom, not just through his life, but even now as Christians, as we're unified with him by his Spirit or by the Spirit of God, we have wisdom.

00:36:08.320 And so we can operate prudentially in any given situation with the mind of Christ.

00:36:12.400 And that's what I think a lot of people are missing is they want to gird Jesus.

00:36:16.020 They want to make him some kind of like he was the fulfillment of the law.

00:36:19.680 He upholds the law.

00:36:20.440 He didn't abolish the law, laws in play, but we need to mature.

00:36:24.660 We need to grow in wisdom.

00:36:26.020 Law often comes to young children, like you need black and white for young children.

00:36:30.120 And as you get older, you need to become more prudential and you have more freedom and more agency and more power.

00:36:34.880 And you need to use that wisely.

00:36:36.160 Instead, we settle for just being children and not growing up into maturity in Christ's likeness and in every aspect of life by operating with the mind of Christ.

00:36:44.040 So as we've seen in the last few years, there has been a resurgence of people who are not afraid to say that there should be a public presence of Christianity, that ultimately this is the foundation of not just the American experience, but the wider Western Christendom.

00:37:04.120 And that this has not just a role to play, but a central foundational role in our public life.

00:37:12.920 And in some ways, this has manifested more originally in the Catholic subset than it did for the Protestants.

00:37:23.620 But Protestants are, even though Catholics tend to have positions higher up in the social order, Protestants are the ones who make up the bulk of the Christian belief structure in the United States.

00:37:38.160 And so the fact that is now, you know, kind of moved into the Protestant sector has had a big change in what's going on.

00:37:45.580 And as that has arisen and, you know, some people will point to the Christian nationalist movement.

00:37:50.080 I've got my own problems with the term Christian nationalist, but we understand, you know, kind of where people are coming from with that.

00:37:57.120 As that has come about, a lot of people have started screeching, especially a lot of mainstream Christians, ones that are politically connected, ones that have large public ministries.

00:38:08.160 And they're saying, no, no, no, no, of course not.

00:38:11.160 Like Christians should not be seeking power publicly. 1.00

00:38:13.820 They should not be engaging politically.

00:38:16.100 They should not be organizing as Christians for the public good. 1.00

00:38:22.500 These people, again, have built giant ministries.

00:38:25.920 They are some of the most visible people in the public order.

00:38:30.360 Why are they so militant against the idea that the faith that they profess to be involved in would manifest itself in good laws and good policy and good beliefs for the wider American culture?

00:38:45.660 I mean, I hate to say it.

00:38:48.220 I just think they're liberals, man.

00:38:49.660 I mean, this goes back to the book Christianity and Liberalism by Machen.

00:38:55.760 This is a problem of the 20th century in particular.

00:38:59.640 He wrote that back in the early 20th century when a lot was going on at Princeton.

00:39:03.680 And so they don't have the same understanding, to put it mildly and charitably, in good faith.

00:39:12.460 They don't have the same understanding of the role of Christianity in politics and in culture.

00:39:18.880 They have just a different thing.

00:39:20.360 And what the different thing is, is liberalism, the open society, kind of like this free market, free exchange of ideas.

00:39:27.320 And I think that, Oren, that's what really rattled me in 2020 is like a lot of the people, like you said, with these big budgets, these high platforms.

00:39:38.660 And we saw kind of three things going on.

00:39:42.300 We saw medical things going on, which we have replete examples from church history of how Christians should engage in this stuff.

00:39:48.400 We have historical examples.

00:39:50.000 We saw social revolution going on with Black Lives Matter.

00:39:52.380 And we saw a social contagion going on with transgenderism and other ills like that. 1.00

00:39:59.460 And in every single case, they refused to fire their weapons.

00:40:04.560 They just kind of like laid down arms.

00:40:06.360 And I think for a lot of Christians like myself, that was deeply disturbing.

00:40:09.560 Because all of a sudden, the mask came off.

00:40:11.540 And you're like, what's going on?

00:40:13.860 They seem to be like married to the spirit of our age.

00:40:16.540 They seem to be just parroting.

00:40:17.760 They seem to be out there kneeling, saying the same slogans, posting the same black square.

00:40:22.800 What are we doing here?

00:40:24.040 You know, this is not good for society.

00:40:26.360 And so I think there is an idyllic liberalism that they still are worshiping.

00:40:31.480 I pray that they would repent of where those ideas are inconsistent with our Christian faith.

00:40:37.300 Sincerely, they should repent of that.

00:40:39.200 But they've been so married to the spirit of our age and kind of this liberal, neutral, public square vision that they have no other framework with which to understand their Christian faith.

00:40:50.860 It is embarrassing.

00:40:53.680 It is embarrassing that they went silent.

00:40:55.860 You know, I've used this illustration before.

00:40:57.360 But for a lot of pastors, and especially members of churches who are on the front lines in this stuff, they were seeing it in their workplaces, in their schools, and they're going, what are we going to do?

00:41:07.540 The pastors are used to recommending, hey, we got this book from this big name.

00:41:11.640 We got this publishing house.

00:41:12.840 We got this resource we can use, my seminary.

00:41:15.500 You know, I could call my professor.

00:41:17.140 We've got this network.

00:41:18.360 And all of a sudden, the network went dark.

00:41:20.320 And not just dark, it turned against the people in the pews on all three of those issues.

00:41:24.580 And I think that's caused a lot of distrust.

00:41:28.840 And we need new institutions that resource the people in the pews, resource Christians to understand this stuff.

00:41:33.960 But a lot of these people, they're losing stakeholders.

00:41:37.240 They're losing money.

00:41:38.960 You see them capitulate still like Wheaton College.

00:41:41.820 And Wheaton's just one example of dozens of Christian colleges that are riddled with the same problem.

00:41:47.220 But you see a worship of kind of the liberal ideals of the Enlightenment.

00:41:52.740 And it's just really bad.

00:41:55.120 And so I think a lot of people are fed up and they're really excited that, hey, this is a new thing.

00:42:00.580 And my pitch has always been, it's not new.

00:42:03.000 It's just like reading all those guys who came before us who had no problem.

00:42:07.480 Like in my article at the end of it, we have Charles Spurgeon, 18th century. 0.95

00:42:11.840 He says, young men, to you, I would honestly say that I should be ashamed to speak of you of a religion that would make you soft, cowardly, and effeminate. 1.00

00:42:21.820 Like that, that's there. 0.95

00:42:23.280 And that's not just him.

00:42:24.480 That's like all over the place.

00:42:26.140 And yet today, if you said that in some pulpits, that would be, oh my gosh, you know, that's going to upset women or that's going to upset womanly men.

00:42:32.940 And so we can't say that.

00:42:34.220 And it's like we've become so obsessed with not offending people, inclusion, tolerance, all the values of the spirit of our age instead of the faith that was handed down to us.

00:42:43.160 And that we represent and we should be preaching to people and equipping the saints for the work of the ministry in that, wherever they are, whatever vocation.

00:42:50.420 And so I do think that he goes back to a lot of the problems that Machen highlighted in Christianity and liberalism.

00:42:55.660 And he was a Presbyterian and he was a Protestant and he identified it very, very accurately of what was going on in his day.

00:43:02.580 And it still continues today.

00:43:04.400 Yeah, it's very interesting that a lot of the people who are crying about, you know, the possibility that Christianity might become ascendant, that it might become culturally relevant, that it might seek leadership positions and authority,

00:43:22.020 that it might be the basis for national revival, both culturally and spiritually, but also politically.

00:43:29.340 The very people who are talking about how this is heresy and it's against the Bible and it's against the teaching of Christ.

00:43:35.720 Now we start to find out, especially through this USAID stuff, that the very people like Russell Moore and David French and these guys who have been talking about the dangers of this, you know, conflating Christianity, crossing the church and state barrier, they are receiving government funding.

00:43:57.040 Their ministries are being funded by the government and even better that several denominations to their great shame are having the majority or a large chunk of their charity funding created because they are complicit in human trafficking,

00:44:14.880 breaking the law in the United States, bringing illegal immigrants in there. 0.76

00:44:19.080 And I've been in churches where I've heard this argument, look, these people are here either way, man, we've got to take care of them.

00:44:23.880 And it's like, okay, first, no, that's not how it works.

00:44:26.820 Like you don't, you don't facilitate crime and then say, oh, well, I mean, the, you know, the, the, the, the murderer is already murdering.

00:44:34.400 So there's just nothing we can do about it.

00:44:36.140 We, we just have to feed them while he's around.

00:44:38.480 But also the fact that they are not just helping people who are already here, they're actively involved in bringing people over.

00:44:48.500 And so we have this strange dichotomy where again, people who are warned us about the dangers of this mixing of church and state.

00:44:56.720 We can't have Christianity asserted in the public square are actually directly being funded by the government itself and are involved in a larger human smuggling operation that brings in millions of dollars and make sure that they maintain their jobs. 0.59

00:45:12.300 Yeah, it's insane.

00:45:13.260 And so one organization that you saw this with, and I, I didn't look up if they got federal funding, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did the evangelical immigration table.

00:45:20.240 This was big 10 years ago.

00:45:22.280 And a lot of institutional leaders and evangelicalism signed onto the statement, because like I said, at the beginning of the episode, so much of Christianity today is riddled with sentimentality.

00:45:32.140 It's riddled with emotional appeals and kind of getting people and manipulation and, and to their credit, you know, many people are fed up with it, whether it's Christians or, or lost, you know, when you live in a more secular context, typically a lot of the people that are there that are not Christians, they've seen the show.

00:45:53.020 They know that another church is going to come to town, going to set up shop with a big rock band, and it's going to be kind of this, like, we're not a church.

00:46:00.880 And then all of a sudden they're going to spring it on you later that you're a church and lost people are so fed up with that.

00:46:04.940 And it's the same stuff that's going on in the church with evangelical immigration table and others.

00:46:09.400 They're using emotional appeals.

00:46:10.680 Like, what are we going to do?

00:46:11.560 They're hurting people.

00:46:12.520 And that's our job to care for hurting people.

00:46:14.300 And it's like, you're not helping, like you're, you're actually making it worse.

00:46:18.000 You're not teaching people how to think both as Christians and what we should do as Christians that, yes, if somebody shows up in your life that has a need, as much as you can meet that need, and also uphold the law and justice matters, and you should obey the law.

00:46:30.200 And if somebody has broken the law, it's totally legitimate to go to the magistrate, to go to the local authorities and say, this is a lawbreaker.

00:46:37.700 This should be handled.

00:46:38.740 And so there's just so much kind of feminist idealism out there in terms of how, how people are appealed to, how Christianity is represented as kind of this cope to all of our sufferings and persecution is the greatest thing. 0.52

00:46:50.620 And so now we have a cope to deal with our persecution as we invite persecution on ourselves.

00:46:54.780 And like you highlighted, these guys who have been calling out Christian nationalism for, well, gosh, I mean, the term has been around since 2003.

00:47:02.120 Before that, it was something else altogether.

00:47:03.760 It's always been this kind of like, they come up with a phrase, the left does, to make you scared, like you highlighted with the religious right.

00:47:09.100 But especially in the last four years, the same voices like you highlighted with Russell Moore, David French, and then you've got academics like Samuel Perry out there highlighting the dangers of Christian nationalism. 0.67

00:47:20.420 This is a very scary thing, and yet look in the mirror of the very things they accuse Christian nationalists of doing.

00:47:28.520 They're doing that thing.

00:47:30.140 They're taking government funds to advocate for what they believe Christianity is, when I don't think it's Christianity, it's liberalism they're advocating for.

00:47:38.460 But they're doing the exact same thing.

00:47:40.020 And so there's this marriage, they have the audacity, dude, to call out Christians for pursuing power and for operating with agency, while behind the scenes, that's exactly what they're doing. 0.99

00:47:52.560 It's rank hypocrisy, and it's disgusting. 0.99

00:47:55.300 It's absolutely disgusting. 0.98

00:47:56.240 Just be honest. 0.96

00:47:57.320 Just freaking be honest.

00:47:58.660 Like, yeah, we took government money.

00:47:59.960 We believe in this vision.

00:48:01.220 We think more immigrants, illegal immigrants, should come here, and we're going to facilitate that. 1.00

00:48:05.180 And we think that's Christian.

00:48:06.460 Like, great, at least you were honest.

00:48:07.920 But how dare you try to suppress Christianity, suppress Protestants in America, and take government funds behind the scenes and say we should never advocate for our interests.

00:48:18.340 We cannot assert ourselves.

00:48:19.600 We cannot pursue power.

00:48:20.820 All this kind of stuff.

00:48:21.600 All while you're doing it.

00:48:23.080 That's awful.

00:48:24.600 That is awful. 0.99

00:48:25.140 And that's so much of what is a stink in the nose of the world and in the nose of God is a lot of the world accuses Christians of being hypocrites. 0.98

00:48:33.500 I find this fallacious oftentimes. 0.98

00:48:35.500 But there it is.

00:48:36.980 We've got hypocrisy going on, and it needs to be called out.

00:48:40.160 It needs to be utterly destroyed.

00:48:42.420 And I can't believe these guys still get a fair shake.

00:48:45.320 I can't believe they still have institutional credibility.

00:48:47.620 I hope more of this from Rufo and others will expose it because these names that are associated with respectable Christianity, whether it's Rick Warren or others, they need to be shown for what they are.

00:48:58.380 And they need to own it.

00:48:59.700 They need to own what they are.

00:49:01.700 And I would respect them more if they did that.

00:49:03.680 But they're operating as subversives within our own church, and that is awful. 0.94

00:49:07.160 And to kind of hit on this continuing in the church, one of the things that I've noticed is that, you know, in many ways, and I don't think that this is over by any stretch, but you can feel the cultural cachet of wokeness waning.

00:49:25.120 Right?

00:49:25.640 It's going to be with us for a long time, but the idea that it is culturally ascendant, that it's going to remain dominant, that seems to be on the ropes. 0.56

00:49:33.800 Again, it's not completely defeated, and I think people who think it's just going to disappear are being foolish, that there is still plenty more of that around.

00:49:43.100 But it's obviously losing its cultural momentum in some way. 0.51

00:49:47.320 At the same time, it seems like Christian leaders are doubling down on it, that they are treating it as if it is the true religion, and it's their jobs to continue to perpetuate that belief system, even as the culture turns against it.

00:50:01.360 And so this moment where a lot of people, especially Christian men, are asking for a return to a more robust traditional Christianity, you almost have this kind of last soldier on the island in Japan scenario where a lot, especially evangelical pastors, but this is, you see this in things like Catholicism as well.

00:50:21.020 They're fighting for the continuation of woke doctrines inside their church that were already foreign to them and were never biblical and now are losing even their cultural power.

00:50:32.460 So it's this weird dynamic where like Christianity is always like 20 years behind, right?

00:50:37.280 Like it's always culturally lagging, even when it picks up the worst aspects of culture.

00:50:41.120 So even when culture is like, actually, we would like you to correct back and be more of what you were supposed to be, the thing that we were threatened you would be in like the 1950s or something, can we get that Christianity?

00:50:53.160 And church leaders are like, nope, sorry, all we got is the woke version, sold out of that traditional one, never bringing it back.

00:50:59.820 All we got is the worst, most watered down, most effeminate version available.

00:51:04.960 Yeah, it's insane.

00:51:05.640 I mean, you'll see this with even in the SBC with the RLC putting out publications about racial reconciliation.

00:51:13.000 The author of that is out there promoting George Floyd and all this kind of stuff.

00:51:16.860 And so it's obviously a cope.

00:51:18.100 It's obviously like they're trying to run the same playbook and it's not, no one's buying it anymore.

00:51:23.020 It's sad to watch, I guess.

00:51:24.520 I mean, it's also kind of funny to watch where it's like, guys, you're not keeping up.

00:51:29.000 You're not.

00:51:29.360 And I think what's important to distinguish here, Warren, is like, this isn't, we can't fall prey to the same kind of managerial marketing approach of Christianity to meet the needs of the day.

00:51:38.800 Because that's what led a lot of the woke people into their woke ideology in the church as they're like, well, this is what's necessary in this time and place to reach people.

00:51:46.400 No, it's not just like a marketing ploy.

00:51:48.360 It's just getting back to our faith.

00:51:50.160 It's getting back to like what the faith has always been and not being ashamed of our forefathers, not being ashamed of those who came before us, who built Christendom, who came before us to conquer America, to make it, to settle America and make it a great nation.

00:52:04.680 And so there's this weird thing where it's like you want to resist the temptation to kind of just, okay, well, now the winds have shifted and you're going to see this.

00:52:12.000 A lot of big names are going to do this.

00:52:13.460 They're going to shift and they're going to go, well, I guess the needs of the hour in order to maintain a market share in America, we've got to talk about these issues.

00:52:21.400 You know, we've got to bring up these actors.

00:52:22.820 We've got to bring up these topics and that's how we maintain a market share.

00:52:25.840 And I think what's really important and what's going to distinguish those who are genuine and authentic about it and are really trying to educate and kind of reinvigorate Christian men today versus those who are opposers is who is openly repentant of the way they've compromised in the past.

00:52:40.060 You know, who has openly said, hey, this was either a mistake or an outright sin.

00:52:43.820 I shouldn't have taught that.

00:52:44.920 That was bad.

00:52:46.460 Christians should be able to do that.

00:52:47.720 That's not like foreign to our religion.

00:52:49.500 In fact, part of our religion is confessing our sins.

00:52:51.600 And so we should be able to do that.

00:52:52.780 If a guy who's out there trying to maintain a market share and pivot nowadays is unable to own mistakes he's made in the past, say, yeah, I blew it with that one.

00:53:02.280 Okay.

00:53:02.580 I made a bad choice.

00:53:03.560 And he can't even like admit it.

00:53:06.380 That's a telltale sign for me that this is a person who's not intent on actually helping people.

00:53:11.780 He's intent on maintaining a market share.

00:53:13.680 And when Christianity becomes that and commoditized to where it's just like, you know, business and we got to keep the doors open, that's very dangerous for a church to be in that position.

00:53:23.620 So we don't want to be there.

00:53:24.520 But I think you're right.

00:53:25.520 A lot of these people are just like they're sold out.

00:53:28.180 They have committed.

00:53:29.020 They have become indoctrinated by the kind of religion of the day.

00:53:33.000 There's a book.

00:53:34.320 I have it on my shelf somewhere.

00:53:36.620 There's a book that came out recently talking about how woke operates as a religion, like kind of the reawakening of America.

00:53:41.740 It's another kind of revival in America.

00:53:43.820 And a lot of these pastors and evangelical leaders went through that revival type process with the tears and the emotion and the kind of confession with the black square and all this kind of stuff.

00:53:53.440 And so now they're like they've blended.

00:53:56.040 They've syncretized Christianity with wokeness. 1.00

00:53:58.640 And the only way out is through repentance.

00:54:01.160 And so they've got to do it.

00:54:02.240 And if they can't do it and if they try to pivot, it's just it's smoke and mirrors.

00:54:06.820 And so they got to get out of that position.

00:54:09.040 But, yeah, you are seeing a lot.

00:54:11.000 Even like World Vision, it was taking – was it World Vision or World Relief?

00:54:14.040 I can't remember.

00:54:14.480 That was taking tons of money from the U.S. government.

00:54:17.740 They're doubling down and they're rallying their supporters.

00:54:21.400 Oh, this is terrible.

00:54:22.340 We can't believe these policies are coming to pass.

00:54:24.020 We can't believe our government funding is being stripped away.

00:54:26.400 Here's what we were doing.

00:54:27.300 It's like they have no – they seem to have no self-awareness.

00:54:30.920 They're just sold out to these kind of policies and this kind of attitude towards Christianity as being a doormat and only being good insofar as it serves liberalism.

00:54:40.720 All right.

00:54:43.140 Well, we are stacking up a large amount of Super Chats.

00:54:46.240 So before we switch over to those real quick, Chase, where can people find your work?

00:54:52.120 Is there anything you want to point them to that you are working on?

00:54:55.540 Yeah, you can find me on Twitter at J. Chase Davis.

00:54:57.800 I also contribute to the Center for Baptist Leadership, centerforbaptistleadership.org, I believe.

00:55:03.000 And you can find some articles I've written there.

00:55:04.480 I'm a pastor at the Well Church in Boulder, Colorado.

00:55:06.900 You can find us at boulderwell.org and look up sermons and stuff.

00:55:12.040 Hopefully, we can be a resource.

00:55:13.600 And then I host the Foolproof Theology Podcast.

00:55:15.560 So I know that's a lot.

00:55:16.740 I guess you go to jchasedavis.com.

00:55:18.480 I'm not very good at this stuff, Warren.

00:55:20.820 There's a lot of stuff I'm working on, but that's a few of the examples.

00:55:24.620 Well, that'll give people a little bit of sampling.

00:55:26.900 They can head in and find more from there.

00:55:29.260 All right, guys, let's head over to the questions of the people real quick.

00:55:34.840 Truddle says, Jesus actually didn't stay in the tomb.

00:55:37.820 He rose, ascended, and reigns in power at the right hand of Father.

00:55:41.240 Apparently, few know this.

00:55:43.860 Yeah, Christ victorious for some reason, you know, not a big part of the story today.

00:55:49.140 Very, very strange.

00:55:50.240 Wonder why that is.

00:55:51.380 Yeah, I think a lot of people, when they present the gospel,

00:55:53.700 they just talk about the birth maybe, but they definitely talk about the death

00:55:58.600 and then the resurrection, and then they forget the ascension.

00:56:02.480 The ascension is actually fundamental to our faith,

00:56:04.940 that he lives today and is seated, and he rules and reigns.

00:56:07.940 I think that's widely overlooked.

00:56:10.080 Yes, few know this.

00:56:12.980 Jonathan Dinan says,

00:56:14.700 I can't believe that Oren is making us wait outside in the rain on Valentine's Day.

00:56:18.420 This reminds me of when my high school ex-GF did the same thing to me.

00:56:22.120 Very tragic.

00:56:23.140 Yeah, sorry, guys.

00:56:23.840 I had a camera issue there.

00:56:25.740 I had to restart the computer several times.

00:56:28.820 So I did not chide you on Valentine's Day with any malice,

00:56:33.000 but, you know, camera woes brought us here.

00:56:36.160 I am very sorry.

00:56:36.940 Anyway, Florida Henry says,

00:56:39.640 Christian movies in the 80s were so bad.

00:56:43.000 This is true.

00:56:43.980 This is true.

00:56:45.800 Do you have a favorite Christian movie?

00:56:47.500 Is there one?

00:56:48.400 If someone was like,

00:56:49.660 hey, here's one Christian movie that you could...

00:56:53.500 Me?

00:56:55.000 Look, I'll say I enjoyed Passion of the Christ when it came out.

00:56:59.340 I think Gibson might be working on something.

00:57:01.220 I am conflicted, I'll be honest, on representing Christ in cinema.

00:57:07.200 I go back and forth, especially as a Protestant.

00:57:10.980 I'm not an iconoclast, but at the same time, like, you know,

00:57:14.640 when I see works out there, I've been on mission trips

00:57:16.460 where I've promoted the Jesus film in different countries

00:57:19.120 and helped lead people to Christ.

00:57:21.360 And I think there's some good that can be done,

00:57:22.980 but I also see things like The Chosen.

00:57:25.700 And I think it may be not so great.

00:57:28.440 But, you know, The Passion of the Christ, that was a good one.

00:57:31.360 I can't remember.

00:57:32.700 I never watched...

00:57:33.660 I read Left Behind.

00:57:34.660 I never saw the movies, I don't think.

00:57:36.500 I never saw any of the movies either.

00:57:37.760 I read some of the books, but I never saw the movies.

00:57:39.920 I was going to go with Ben-Hur.

00:57:41.220 I know that's technically not a Christian movie,

00:57:43.920 but I think that is a movie done correctly

00:57:48.800 where obviously its themes are adjacent to the biblical story

00:57:54.040 and then it runs into the biblical story,

00:57:56.180 but that's not the focus.

00:57:57.700 And Jesus is always like a radical influence

00:58:01.700 and change in the lives around them,

00:58:03.440 but it doesn't spend a lot of time on Jesus himself.

00:58:07.220 And so it does a good job of bringing the themes

00:58:11.320 and the redemption and the truth of Christ

00:58:13.660 into that storyline,

00:58:15.340 but also providing an entertaining ride

00:58:18.960 for the average moviegoer.

00:58:20.820 You know, these things don't have to be exclusive.

00:58:22.600 It doesn't have to be an altar call, you know, at the end.

00:58:25.240 So though it gets pretty close, honestly, with Ben-Hur.

00:58:28.200 What was the classic one about Moses?

00:58:32.140 Ten Commands.

00:58:33.320 Was that it?

00:58:33.900 Yeah, 1956.

00:58:34.400 Yeah, Cecil B. DeMille.

00:58:35.300 Dude, my dad would watch that like every year.

00:58:37.920 And so that's like, I really enjoyed that one.

00:58:40.980 I have no idea how, you know, looking back,

00:58:43.100 I haven't watched in a while,

00:58:43.880 but growing up, that was like lore in our home.

00:58:46.240 It was great.

00:58:46.700 Yeah, back when Christian-themed movies 0.99

00:58:50.380 received large budgets from award-winning directors

00:58:54.500 and so their talents, you know, directly,

00:58:57.260 and they were stories that people would have expected

00:59:00.060 as much as you would expect, you know,

00:59:02.620 the Iliad or the Odyssey,

00:59:04.340 or like these are stories that are so core to our canon.

00:59:08.380 Even if you weren't a Christian, you knew those stories.

00:59:11.100 They had a deep impact on your culture and your life.

00:59:13.460 And if you were a Christian, then it only went deeper, right? 0.99

00:59:16.660 And this is what cultural Christianity actually looks like.

00:59:19.520 It looks like good Christian movies.

00:59:21.620 So maybe we give it a little bit more breathing room there.

00:59:26.380 Brad Denton says,

00:59:27.680 Great article, Chase.

00:59:29.200 See the Times article, American Malvern?

00:59:33.080 Moldbug cites it in UR.

00:59:36.140 Mainline's been pushing overtly globalists since before 42.

00:59:41.080 Well, Curtis certainly draws connections

00:59:45.280 between mainline Protestantism and wokeness.

00:59:48.160 But I don't know if you have any comments on that.

00:59:50.980 No, I'm pulling up the article now.

00:59:52.520 I mean, we could read through it and talk about it.

00:59:55.980 I'll pull it up and read it, though.

00:59:57.720 We'll save that for our next episode.

01:00:00.600 Creeper Weirdo says,

01:00:01.860 But based edgy pagan man says,

01:00:04.980 Yeah, many such cases, many such cases.

01:00:07.180 He also says,

01:00:09.400 But what about the general vague niceness of Jesus?

01:00:12.600 That is basically all of Twitter. 0.93

01:00:15.660 Again, I love the fact that Trump is a scary Christian nationalist. 0.99

01:00:20.020 Trump is a scary Christian nationalist. 0.97

01:00:22.000 And then J.D. Vance is like, 0.98

01:00:23.800 I think that the Bible wants you to love your wife

01:00:26.440 more than a random woman on the street. 0.99

01:00:29.120 And people are like,

01:00:30.160 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:00:31.120 We're going to do exegesis right now.

01:00:33.140 It's time to break out.

01:00:34.140 And so it's really funny how we went from

01:00:36.740 the idea that discussing Christian doctrine

01:00:39.160 or attaching it to any of our government action

01:00:41.400 is just like the worst constitutional violation

01:00:44.380 we could ever have,

01:00:45.440 to, no, let's get down and argue about

01:00:47.400 exactly the type of application of Christian doctrine

01:00:50.640 that our government should be using.

01:00:53.280 Again, I have no problem with this.

01:00:54.940 I think that's a fantastic shift in the zeitgeist.

01:00:57.440 Yes.

01:00:57.840 Thimplar says the world will become for them.

01:01:04.780 Do this, do that.

01:01:06.080 A law for this, a law for that.

01:01:08.280 Isaiah 28.

01:01:09.300 God made it clear that his word is stale

01:01:12.100 for the Pharisees and liberal.

01:01:14.320 They are blinded.

01:01:16.580 I think there's a point there.

01:01:18.360 And Jesus talks about how,

01:01:20.380 especially the Pharisees,

01:01:21.320 the problem with the Pharisees 0.98

01:01:22.040 is actually more complicated than we typically think.

01:01:24.180 The problem with the Pharisees, 0.99

01:01:25.040 is they added to God's law

01:01:26.080 and they twisted God's law

01:01:27.120 to serve their own stomachs.

01:01:28.900 And so, yeah, I think that Jesus,

01:01:31.780 like I mentioned in the episode,

01:01:33.060 Jesus did uphold the law.

01:01:35.000 He came to fulfill the law.

01:01:36.580 Yeah, he doesn't abolish the law.

01:01:38.160 And yet he's inviting us

01:01:39.060 to grow into maturity even more.

01:01:41.180 And so a lot of people who are stuck

01:01:43.580 with Christianity and hating cultural Christianity 0.93

01:01:46.500 have adopted law.

01:01:48.160 They've adopted a different law

01:01:49.360 than God's law, liberalism.

01:01:50.580 And they can only operate in that frame.

01:01:52.520 They don't have wisdom.

01:01:53.140 Like you just mentioned with the Bible verses,

01:01:54.800 like we saw Newsom do this in California

01:01:58.600 with like an abortion poster

01:01:59.960 and use a Bible verse.

01:02:01.900 And of course,

01:02:02.540 that's twisting a scripture that's really bad.

01:02:04.700 But we got to make sure we're principled

01:02:06.440 and distinguished that.

01:02:07.480 Look, a politician promoting Bible verses

01:02:09.780 on principle isn't bad.

01:02:11.420 It's how they're using it.

01:02:12.320 And of course, Vance does it really well.

01:02:14.600 But yeah.

01:02:17.460 Elijah Timon says,

01:02:18.820 liberalism gave Christianity some space

01:02:21.040 in the context of anti-racism.

01:02:23.560 That's why Audrey Hale's victims 1.00

01:02:25.560 get swept under the rug.

01:02:27.220 But the Dylann Roof Church

01:02:28.640 becomes a site of political pilgrimage 1.00

01:02:31.180 for every damn politician. 0.99

01:02:33.000 Man, by the way, 1.00

01:02:34.520 that shooting at the school in Tennessee

01:02:38.240 was, talk about a mask off moment, man.

01:02:41.300 Talk about a mask off moment

01:02:43.720 when it became very clear

01:02:45.360 that most of the liberal left

01:02:48.960 thought that anyone who opposed

01:02:50.520 transgender ideology on Christian grounds 1.00

01:02:53.400 deserved to be murdered, 1.00

01:02:54.780 including children. 1.00

01:02:55.600 Like, there's no other way to read that.

01:02:57.560 Like, and the president of the United States

01:02:59.380 or the shell that was the president

01:03:00.940 of the United States

01:03:01.640 was out there celebrating trans identity 0.52

01:03:04.920 after the murders of these Christian children.

01:03:07.260 Just that one still,

01:03:09.900 I got to pray a lot on that one

01:03:11.740 because that one leads me down

01:03:13.440 some really dark paths.

01:03:14.520 Watching that unfold in public

01:03:17.180 was particularly horrific.

01:03:19.160 Absolutely.

01:03:19.740 Yeah, it's disgusting.

01:03:22.700 Jonathan Dinan again says,

01:03:24.520 this issue is deep.

01:03:25.640 My local college is partnered

01:03:26.980 with InterVarsity Ministries

01:03:28.840 for a Bible study group.

01:03:30.680 They would rather allow LGBTQ atheism 1.00

01:03:33.180 over someone even as milk toast

01:03:36.340 as Cliff Knitchie

01:03:38.300 because he's too mean.

01:03:41.060 I know what he's talking about there.

01:03:42.460 That is absolutely right.

01:03:43.720 And this is common.

01:03:44.340 And I see this in Parachurch Ministries

01:03:45.660 all the time where, you know,

01:03:47.860 they want to give tolerance left

01:03:50.080 and they want to exclude right.

01:03:52.820 And so anyone who even comes across

01:03:54.500 as offensive or has ever seems to be offensive

01:03:56.900 to their pagan neighbors,

01:03:58.040 they're like, well, we can't be friends with them.

01:03:59.740 We can't platform them.

01:04:00.620 But someone who speaks in soft tones

01:04:02.920 and hushed voices

01:04:04.420 and how we need to be tolerant

01:04:05.840 and loving to all people,

01:04:07.160 that's going to be totally fair game.

01:04:09.620 But this is common.

01:04:11.100 I don't know if it's an InterVarsity thing particularly,

01:04:14.300 but it's not just InterVarsity from my experience.

01:04:16.300 It's like all of them are this way

01:04:17.820 and it's really pronounced

01:04:19.000 on college campus ministries in Christianity.

01:04:21.380 It's really sad.

01:04:22.400 But yeah, it's common.

01:04:23.780 Yeah, I came up in, you know,

01:04:25.580 relatively doctrinaire Southern Baptist churches.

01:04:30.340 And the first time I ever encountered a pastor

01:04:34.120 who, like, seemed to be somewhat fuzzy

01:04:37.200 on the divinity of Christ was in college.

01:04:40.780 I went to a college, you know,

01:04:42.980 a group on a campus group, Bible study group,

01:04:47.100 and the students were far more Christian

01:04:49.920 than the person leading the Bible study.

01:04:52.860 And I know that has only become

01:04:54.420 more of a common thing, unfortunately.

01:04:57.840 A creepy weirdo says,

01:04:58.580 can we stop with the Catholic versus Orthodox 1.00

01:05:00.640 versus Protestant crap? 1.00

01:05:01.880 The woke isn't getting put away. 1.00

01:05:03.600 Guys, get your heads in the game.

01:05:05.440 Dang it.

01:05:06.280 So I want to be clear

01:05:07.640 because this, you know,

01:05:09.540 pops up from time to time.

01:05:11.160 You know, I am obviously a Southern Baptist.

01:05:13.600 My good friend, Dave the Distributist,

01:05:15.980 is a Catholic.

01:05:17.040 My other good friend, the Prudentialist,

01:05:18.700 who's on this channel all the time,

01:05:20.540 is an Orthodox guy.

01:05:22.060 We are all friends.

01:05:23.100 We are all brothers in Christ.

01:05:24.340 We all recognize the importance

01:05:26.580 of advancing that message

01:05:28.180 and returning the United States

01:05:30.520 to a Christian understanding and foundation.

01:05:32.800 That said, this is a Protestant country.

01:05:36.980 Sorry.

01:05:37.660 Like, I know that's rough for some people,

01:05:40.180 but here's how it is.

01:05:43.560 You know, if I was going to Rome,

01:05:45.880 I would not attempt to assume

01:05:48.880 that the government there would be Protestant.

01:05:50.820 Okay?

01:05:50.940 Like, that's just not the way.

01:05:52.920 If I was heading to Greece,

01:05:54.200 I would not assume

01:05:55.320 that everyone would be singing

01:05:57.340 from the Southern Baptist terminal.

01:05:59.300 If Catholics and Orthodox Christians, 1.00

01:06:01.500 who are my brothers in Christ,

01:06:02.860 want to come and practice

01:06:03.980 in the United States,

01:06:05.520 by all means,

01:06:06.480 and if you would like to encourage

01:06:07.840 Christianity in the United States,

01:06:09.280 then I love you even more.

01:06:11.140 But if you are talking about

01:06:12.800 how Christianity in the United States

01:06:15.720 is going to become predominantly Orthodox

01:06:17.340 or Catholic,

01:06:18.260 I'm sorry,

01:06:19.640 that is just not the tradition.

01:06:21.240 That is not the heritage. 0.90

01:06:22.260 And as people who are theoretically

01:06:24.140 quite interested in hierarchy,

01:06:27.560 heritage, tradition,

01:06:29.160 passing these things down,

01:06:30.280 it'd be great if we respected that

01:06:31.900 here in the United States.

01:06:33.180 So I'll just put it that way.

01:06:35.520 I agree.

01:06:36.520 I think these are interesting.

01:06:38.040 As a theologian,

01:06:38.800 I think these are interesting debates to have,

01:06:40.100 but I find them really mistimed

01:06:42.980 in terms of what we're up against.

01:06:44.840 We have much bigger fish to fry at the moment.

01:06:46.580 I'm not interested in a showdown.

01:06:48.680 I'm not even,

01:06:49.440 you know,

01:06:50.460 deep in the bench in theology.

01:06:52.100 I'm sure someone who's well-schooled in theology

01:06:54.500 is going to,

01:06:55.120 is going to,

01:06:55.740 you know,

01:06:56.080 rip me a new one or whatever.

01:06:57.600 But,

01:06:58.020 but sorry,

01:06:59.680 like,

01:07:00.000 you know,

01:07:00.460 I,

01:07:00.840 I'm more than happy to move that to the side

01:07:03.420 and focus on what's important,

01:07:05.420 but when it gets brought up,

01:07:06.440 I'm not going to pretend like,

01:07:07.780 you know,

01:07:08.140 America is not a Protestant. 0.79

01:07:10.660 Also on the,

01:07:11.500 along this line,

01:07:12.040 Jonathan Dynan says,

01:07:13.500 Catholic,

01:07:13.860 Protestant,

01:07:14.240 Orthodox convos are important,

01:07:15.560 but right now as traditional church goers,

01:07:18.460 need to unite and get the leftoids out of here. 1.00

01:07:20.340 Yes.

01:07:20.660 And again,

01:07:21.080 I agree a hundred percent.

01:07:22.620 That's why I have people across Christianity,

01:07:24.920 you know,

01:07:26.140 on the show representing their beliefs.

01:07:29.060 I'm more than happy to work with them.

01:07:30.800 And I think that that work is the most important.

01:07:33.480 It doesn't mean that eventually these discussions don't come up.

01:07:35.860 It doesn't mean that there isn't a particular preference at the end of the day,

01:07:39.100 based on Christian history in the United States.

01:07:42.720 But like I said,

01:07:44.140 there,

01:07:44.300 there are much more important battles at the moment.

01:07:47.540 Skeptical Panda says,

01:07:48.620 good convo,

01:07:49.240 very based.

01:07:49.940 We will win.

01:07:51.120 Thank you very much.

01:07:52.080 Appreciate that.

01:07:53.600 And blood based here,

01:07:54.920 just with a generous donation.

01:07:56.580 Thank you very much,

01:07:57.420 man.

01:07:57.700 Very much.

01:07:58.480 Appreciate that.

01:07:59.840 Oh,

01:08:00.000 we got one more question here.

01:08:02.460 Jonathan again says,

01:08:03.580 this is Dave Green's country loss show stand for white Anglo-Saxon papis.

01:08:09.120 Look,

01:08:09.620 you take your potpourri.

01:08:10.840 Also,

01:08:11.060 see,

01:08:11.260 now you're going to turn me into a bill,

01:08:12.580 the butcher from,

01:08:13.300 uh,

01:08:14.080 uh,

01:08:14.360 but where are the foreign influence and your,

01:08:17.140 your,

01:08:17.560 your,

01:08:17.900 your king on the throne in Rome.

01:08:20.040 Yeah.

01:08:20.240 Anyway.

01:08:21.020 So don't,

01:08:21.500 yeah,

01:08:21.620 don't,

01:08:21.920 don't poke the bear here.

01:08:22.960 I'm trying to keep the peace.

01:08:24.120 All right.

01:08:24.960 Uh,

01:08:25.380 all right guys,

01:08:26.060 we're going to go ahead and wrap this up.

01:08:27.980 I want to say thank you to chase once again,

01:08:30.080 for coming on.

01:08:30.740 It's been a blast talking about this.

01:08:32.680 Make sure that you are following us.

01:08:33.580 You're following him on Twitter.

01:08:34.460 You're listening to his podcast.

01:08:36.440 Uh,

01:08:36.640 I think he's doing some great work.

01:08:37.980 Of course,

01:08:38.240 if it's your first time on this channel,

01:08:39.840 you need to subscribe on YouTube bell notification,

01:08:43.100 all that jazz.

01:08:43.960 So you can catch these streams when they go live.

01:08:46.260 If you'd like to get these broadcasts as podcasts,

01:08:48.460 make sure to subscribe to the Oren McIntyre show on your favorite podcast

01:08:52.300 platform.

01:08:52.860 When you do leave a rating or review,

01:08:54.880 it really helps with the algorithm.

01:08:56.800 I'm going to be in London for the arc conference,

01:08:59.980 uh,

01:09:00.420 next week.

01:09:01.400 Uh,

01:09:01.620 so we'll still have the streams,

01:09:03.280 but they will be prerecorded.

01:09:04.860 So,

01:09:05.000 uh,

01:09:05.460 appreciate any of your,

01:09:06.480 your questions or support,

01:09:07.680 but just recognize I'll be,

01:09:09.520 these will be prerecorded episodes.

01:09:10.960 I've got some great guests coming up.

01:09:12.480 We're going to talk about Hadrian and Trajan.

01:09:14.640 We're going to talk about the administrative state and whether it can be

01:09:17.560 based.

01:09:17.880 Is there a right-wing version of this?

01:09:19.300 That's healthy.

01:09:19.860 Or is all administrative states poisonous to the countries they are in.

01:09:24.020 So I hope that you're going to look forward to those streams next week.

01:09:28.100 Thank you everybody for watching.

01:09:29.600 And as always,

01:09:30.200 I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - February 14, 2025

Meek Not Weak： The End of Loser Christianity ｜ Guest： Chase Davis ｜ 2⧸14⧸25

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript