The Auron MacIntyre Show - MLK Conservative Icon？？？｜ Guest： Ryan Turnipseed

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00:01:31.000 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:01:33.180 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:01:35.220 I've got a great stream with a great guest I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:01:40.200 Now, yesterday was, of course, the celebration of Martin Luther King Day.

00:01:45.220 And for many conservatives, this is a time where they kind of talk about Martin Luther King and his vision and his dream and, you know, kind of how the conservatives or the liberals or someone might oppose or support it.

00:01:58.280 But today we're going to talk about Martin Luther King.

00:02:00.280 But today we're going to get a little more into what Martin Luther King actually said.

00:02:03.920 Was Martin Luther King a natural conservatives?

00:02:06.920 Is he really an icon that conservatives can hold up and say, we are kind of part of this movement and this vision?

00:02:13.500 That's what we're going to be going over today.

00:02:15.860 And my guest today is Ryan Turnipseed.

00:02:18.420 Thanks for joining me, Ryan.

00:02:19.640 Thank you very much for having me on.

00:02:21.500 It's always a pleasure when I'm here.

00:02:23.200 Yeah, Ryan is somebody who's got his own YouTube channel and he writes over at the Old Glory Club.

00:02:29.720 He's one of the officers over there and writes for their sub stack.

00:02:33.620 So you should definitely check out his stuff.

00:02:35.260 And while he is a young gentleman, he's a gentleman who is very well versed in history, especially history that people don't normally study.

00:02:42.800 So he's definitely a good person to help us kind of unpack this excavation of Martin Luther King and kind of what his beliefs were, what he said, where he stood on the issues.

00:02:55.360 So like I said, obviously, Monday we have this celebration, Martin Luther King Day, and there was the unveiling of the really hideous statue, right?

00:03:05.180 And I'm sure you saw the statue there that they built, the embrace, that kind of looks like it might be kind of a vulgar body part, but it is a very odd choice to honor Dr. King with that statue.

00:03:18.940 Yeah, yeah, potentially phallic.

00:03:20.340 I had to ask our artist friends, you know, what even was it?

00:03:23.200 Because all the pictures that I saw, I couldn't make what the actual thing being depicted was.

00:03:28.220 I had no clue what it was.

00:03:29.240 I saw hands, saw a weird thing with two hands coming out of it.

00:03:32.440 It was really weird.

00:03:33.080 Yeah, if you catch it at the right angle, it certainly looks kind of lewd, which was very confusing to people.

00:03:40.640 But, you know, like I said, a lot of people today talk about Martin Luther King and his legacy.

00:03:47.680 There's pretty much a battle over the left and right over what his legacy was and who is the true inheritor of that legacy.

00:03:55.520 And it's always kind of odd because I think Martin Luther King had a lot of things to say to the right, to conservatives.

00:04:03.080 And a lot of people, I think, you know, might be surprised about what those positions were because a lot of people have kind of gone back and attributed positions to Martin Luther King that he kind of explicitly said he did not hold.

00:04:14.800 So we're going to go through some of that historical evidence today as we do that.

00:04:19.840 And I just want to make it clear at the beginning that, you know, you can acknowledge the historical facts and about Martin Luther King Jr.

00:04:27.100 and his political positions and his orientation while still, you know, kind of focusing on that one thing that a lot of, I think, conservatives had, you know, from the I Have a Dream speech, the one that everyone loves to quote, you know, judging someone on the content of their character and the color of their skin.

00:04:43.160 And I do hope that is how people treat individuals.

00:04:46.500 I do think that is the right way to treat individuals, but that wasn't the only thing that Martin Luther King Jr. said.

00:04:52.840 And so when we treat it like that's the only thing the man said, it gives a distorted picture of kind of who he was and what he believed and kind of where his position is in both politics and in history.

00:05:05.000 So we're going to take a look at a few of those things.

00:05:08.800 So the first thing I want to look at is King's focus on equal rights, because this is what a lot of conservatives base, I think, their idea and their support of King on is that Martin Luther King Jr.

00:05:24.400 really did not believe he believed in a colorblind society.

00:05:28.300 He believed in a society where everyone is equal.

00:05:30.900 There is no special protections or any kind of advantage given to different groups.

00:05:35.820 He would have been against affirmative action.

00:05:38.000 He would have been against wokeness.

00:05:39.860 He would have been against, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion.

00:05:43.460 But from Martin Luther King Jr.'s own quotes, I don't necessarily think that's the case.

00:05:49.340 Ryan, what did he say about kind of these topics?

00:05:53.280 Well, before you get into explicitly what he said, there's a trap that some conservatives fall into,

00:05:59.020 and they will pull up quotes from, like, right before he was shot.

00:06:02.440 And basically, the only argument you will ever hear from people is, yeah, but he might have been going crazy at that point.

00:06:07.980 You know, that might have been what he actually believed.

00:06:10.180 That wasn't his true legacy.

00:06:11.440 It was right at the end of his life.

00:06:13.920 So, really, you can start way back at who was he supporting?

00:06:18.680 What was he working towards with government and all this other stuff?

00:06:23.280 And you saw that he had very kind words to say about Kennedy's vice president upon ascending to the office of the president,

00:06:32.400 Lyndon B. Johnson, and his administration.

00:06:35.440 Now, quite famously, they laid the groundwork multiple times through various pieces of legislation

00:06:40.440 that would make legal affirmative action.

00:06:45.400 You know, basically, you were forcing the country to go from some states having, you know, a segregated public sphere,

00:06:52.300 some states having, you know, no law at all.

00:06:55.640 Lyndon Johnson's administration basically changed the legal framework across the entire country

00:07:00.420 to allow things like affirmative action.

00:07:03.960 And if you don't believe me, one of the first places that you see this is actually in the immigration system,

00:07:08.760 where they abolish things like quotas and start bringing in specific people from specific countries

00:07:14.100 because they were underrepresented or they had alleged suppression on their immigration.

00:07:20.440 King supported this administration, and every single time that there was a civil rights bill

00:07:24.780 that was being passed through Congress, the House, the Senate, and then eventually reaching the president,

00:07:30.300 he had nothing but kind words to say about these things.

00:07:33.200 You know, quite famously in a lot of his speeches, he was a big proponent of multiculturalism,

00:07:39.900 which might come as a shock to some, because to conservatives, that's a dirty word.

00:07:43.840 But you see this idea really popularized by King himself, especially in the 60s,

00:07:49.960 where he's talking about, you know, the need for a more pacifist foreign policy

00:07:54.540 is what he was writing on at the time,

00:07:57.340 specifically because, he said, you know, there's no difference from these specific races or nationalities or ethnicities,

00:08:05.700 except for the fact that these other ones have been, you know, subjugated for the longest time.

00:08:12.700 King wasn't exactly a libertarian, shall we say.

00:08:16.140 So his solution to this oppression wasn't to just let them sort of reform,

00:08:20.540 let them rebuild their communities and whatnot if they had indeed been destroyed.

00:08:23.700 It was to use government support to sort of reestablish them in a higher position than they otherwise would have reached,

00:08:32.620 which lent him to support the other part of the Johnson administration

00:08:37.980 and all of his cohorts with the Great Society programs.

00:08:42.440 So I don't really know that we can say he was for colorblindness,

00:08:45.780 because if anyone has a basic understanding of the Great Society programs,

00:08:49.880 they, in their names and in their actions, target specific communities by race.

00:08:55.940 In the other direction, of course, you know,

00:08:58.200 we have to lift up this black neighborhood right here out of poverty because they're black

00:09:02.220 and they're impoverished because of segregation or some other justification that they would come up with.

00:09:08.460 And so King went right along with all of this and oftentimes supported it.

00:09:11.700 You only really find a sort of appeal to colorblindness earlier on,

00:09:17.520 and that's only to kind of, you know, get the idea through the door.

00:09:22.520 You know, his famous speech in Washington was nowhere near the last speech that he gave.

00:09:28.120 In fact, it was one of his first ones.

00:09:30.080 That's the one that many people will point to where he says,

00:09:32.300 look, he doesn't care about skin color.

00:09:33.840 He wants you to judge by character.

00:09:36.240 But this isn't what he kept with.

00:09:38.660 You know, the idea developed as time went on, as most thinkers do with their ideas.

00:09:42.960 It would be quite insane to expect someone to hold the exact same position for, you know, years, let alone a decade.

00:09:49.920 So, you know, to summarize, you could say conservatives kind of look at King when he's in Washington

00:09:55.560 and he's giving his famous speech about his dream.

00:09:59.160 And they kind of just freeze him there and pretend for the entire rest of his life,

00:10:03.040 in his political speeches, in his social speeches, in his speeches on foreign policy,

00:10:08.240 that, you know, he just stayed static when that's just not the case.

00:10:11.860 And by all means, I would invite you to go read them.

00:10:14.700 Unfortunately, today I'm pressed for time.

00:10:16.580 Otherwise, I would, you know, go through you with them, or go through them with you,

00:10:20.820 which, you know, I've done a couple of times on my own channel.

00:10:24.140 Yeah, so if you want to see people, you know, kind of go at that length,

00:10:28.100 Ryan has done the legwork there.

00:10:29.700 But, you know, I think it's important for people to understand that even if, again,

00:10:36.040 he did sincerely, you know, hold a belief of kind of, in theory, colorblindness at some point,

00:10:43.660 I think that meant something very different to King than it would to Republicans today, right?

00:10:48.700 Even while he's advocating for this, his way to get there, like you said, I think is equity, right?

00:10:56.520 That the way to achieve that colorblindness is you get everyone to equity first,

00:11:01.760 and then colorblindness happens.

00:11:03.520 But of course, we know the distance from here to there is a really difficult and ugly process.

00:11:09.220 And that has had very deleterious effects on our society and still has not solved the vast majority of these problems.

00:11:18.280 In many ways, they're worse.

00:11:20.280 And so you can see King calling for racial quotas in things like his, you know, his bus boycotts, right?

00:11:27.940 Like these companies must employ a certain percentage of, for instance, the black community before there is any kind of justice here.

00:11:38.620 And so we need to see a very specific representation, a very specific quotas.

00:11:42.960 Call was not for, I only want qualified people.

00:11:46.220 And if those people happen to be of a particular race, that's great.

00:11:49.360 And that'll kind of naturally flow outward.

00:11:51.660 That was not his assertion.

00:11:54.260 His assertion was the quota first.

00:11:56.440 I want to say the representation first.

00:11:58.720 And then maybe we get to this point of kind of colorblindness.

00:12:02.760 But, you know, and like you said, that might not even have been the goal later on as his views evolved.

00:12:07.720 But the point is that I think his definition of that approach and the definition that conservatives hold up and apply to him today

00:12:16.260 when they're quoting the I have a dream speech is very different because it's very clear from King's own words

00:12:21.760 that he did actually directly support affirmative action quotas,

00:12:27.320 the kinds of things that are the very basis of these diversity, equity, inclusion policies

00:12:31.920 that now conservatives are so against today.

00:12:35.320 Right.

00:12:35.900 And, you know, something that might speak to conservatives is that he didn't just immediately,

00:12:39.660 it's not like he flipped a switch and suddenly he went from one all the way to the other.

00:12:43.200 The first instances that you hear this, he's talking about it on a more international scale,

00:12:49.240 kind of like you would hear from Bobby Kennedy at the time where he's talking about the need for the United States

00:12:54.080 to prop up and support, you know, the poor, you know, decolonizing countries in Africa and Asia

00:12:59.940 and all the other sort of poorer areas of the world.

00:13:04.400 King basically echoed those exact same things.

00:13:06.800 In fact, in this one specific case, despite their animosity towards each other,

00:13:11.400 their rhetoric sounds almost identical.

00:13:13.900 So this is the bridge you're looking for if you go back and read him.

00:13:17.580 You know, you hear the I have a dream speech.

00:13:20.340 And then, you know, as the as time goes on throughout the 60s,

00:13:24.160 things like the Vietnam War becomes less and less popular.

00:13:26.820 And he starts talking about the need for the United States to prop up other races in different parts of the world

00:13:33.680 because they have been oppressed by whites for so long.

00:13:37.040 You know, sort of like the exploitation argument that you would hear from your average lefty professor in the modern day.

00:13:42.960 And then this gets applied domestically as time goes on yet again,

00:13:46.700 where King starts to, you know, see what what could happen with the Great Society programs.

00:13:52.440 He starts to see where the political direction is going.

00:13:55.180 He starts to examine his own beliefs, perhaps.

00:13:57.060 And then you start you start seeing him apply it to the communities here at home and the cities, especially.

00:14:04.840 All right.

00:14:05.420 So the second thing that I think a lot of conservatives are under the impression is that

00:14:12.200 that Martin Luther King would have been a fan of the free market,

00:14:17.880 that he would have been a capitalist or he would have, again, let the market fix these problems that,

00:14:23.800 you know, that the vision Martin Luther King had is that you have this colorblind society

00:14:29.520 and then, you know, the natural forces of the economy or, you know,

00:14:34.540 just whatever would kind of right these wrongs once this had been put into place.

00:14:40.440 But actually, it seems that not only was, you know, King not of this mindset,

00:14:47.300 he was pretty regularly in communication or supported by elements of the communist movement.

00:14:54.160 And this is not to smear King as himself an active communist,

00:14:58.360 but you have to wonder if you are supported by these elements, you're regularly in contact with them,

00:15:03.880 and you clearly have an interest in redistributive policies when it comes to your fixes for racial inequality,

00:15:11.400 then are you really a kind of a free market capitalist at the end of the day, right?

00:15:16.660 Right.

00:15:17.120 So you can go at this from two different angles or, well, you know, two broadly different angles.

00:15:22.960 One, you can see what he actually said on the issues of, say, the free market, a capitalistic society and whatnot else.

00:15:28.240 And then you can look at the friends that he kept, which I'm sure we can get into at greater length later.

00:15:34.900 But, you know, this is something else that conservatives don't do when they sort of freeze King and his I have a dream state

00:15:41.000 and then just pretend that's what he did for the rest of his life.

00:15:44.580 I believe it was 66 or something like that.

00:15:47.620 He was writing articles for various larger newspapers throughout the country,

00:15:51.380 and a lot of the things he was tackling, if you know the American political climate at the time,

00:15:56.120 was, once again, the Great Society.

00:15:58.240 Which most conservatives in the modern day recognize to be very destructive, quite rightly so.

00:16:04.740 You know, you have famous conservative intellectuals like Thomas Sowell saying that it's single-handedly responsible

00:16:10.480 for destroying black social cohesion in the United States.

00:16:14.020 You know, most people have probably heard the talking points.

00:16:17.540 King at the time, however, I believe he wrote for the Nation is what it was.

00:16:22.640 It was an article for the Nation.

00:16:23.820 He was basically lambasting Congress, the president, and everyone else.

00:16:30.480 You know, a very radically left Congress and president from any other point in American history

00:16:36.740 for not working fast enough and radically enough in their economic policies.

00:16:41.300 And if I'm remembering correctly from the speech itself, or from the article, rather,

00:16:48.280 he's, you know, lambasting Congress for not sending enough money to slum neighborhoods in cities.

00:16:54.160 Now, if he was really this American who really believed in, you know, the power of individuals

00:17:00.520 and their own actions to better themselves and their communities, you know,

00:17:04.820 some conservatives paint King to be sort of like a small government believer in all this other stuff.

00:17:09.620 The federal government providing, you know, obscene amounts of money to cities

00:17:15.060 for specific neighborhoods with racial identities doesn't really fit that bill.

00:17:20.760 In fact, it sounds like something you would hear coming out of, you know,

00:17:23.720 New York representatives in the modern day, perhaps a AOC type.

00:17:29.060 You know, that's just one example.

00:17:31.260 You can go find that yourself, or perhaps we could put it up here.

00:17:35.320 I don't quite know what we want to do there.

00:17:36.960 Um, and then you can look at the friends that he kept.

00:17:40.060 Who was he being advised by?

00:17:41.740 Because if you have these major public intellectuals or speakers or, uh, celebrities like MLK,

00:17:47.760 they don't do all this work alone.

00:17:49.600 Very rarely do they do all this work alone.

00:17:52.160 They have advisors, speech writers, teams, committees, inner circles, and whatnot else.

00:17:57.500 Um, and I don't know if you're ready, uh, for the links that I sent you, Aaron,

00:18:02.440 but, um, you know, we, we do know who was in King's inner circle.

00:18:06.040 Um, and they weren't exactly free market conservatives either.

00:18:10.440 Yeah, you sent me several links and, uh, to Wikipedia entries that are...

00:18:17.560 Right.

00:18:18.380 ...about different people who have communist affiliations that he was connected with here.

00:18:23.820 Right.

00:18:24.180 And Wikipedia, for one reason in particular, um, I hope that your audience doesn't think that I'm lazy or something.

00:18:30.100 No, he just went to Wikipedia.

00:18:31.280 Um, that was a very calculated decision.

00:18:34.400 Uh, Wikipedia is not known for painting civil rights leaders in a negative light.

00:18:39.100 Nor are they known for being right, right-wing.

00:18:41.740 Uh, they aren't segregationists from the 60s.

00:18:44.580 Uh, you know, they, they are very favorable to the civil rights movement in particular.

00:18:49.280 And it should strike one as odd.

00:18:52.340 And whenever Wikipedia starts describing King's inner circle, and they have a whole section where it's,

00:18:57.540 Oh, by the way, um, the FBI at this point in time figured out that, you know, King's, uh, you know, senior most advisor

00:19:04.240 was a major financial coordinator for the Communist Party of the United States of America.

00:19:10.220 Mm-hmm.

00:19:10.500 You know, the guy that was advising King on his social policy, foreign policy, um, most likely

00:19:15.520 ghostwriting speeches, also a personal friend of his, so, you know, other influence in that

00:19:20.180 way, um, was affiliated with the Communist Party USA.

00:19:25.260 Um, I don't know about you, uh, but, but the conservative claim that King was a, uh, you

00:19:31.780 know, more conservative than liberal, you know, it's just the, it's the evil liberals nowadays

00:19:35.680 that have gone too far to the left.

00:19:37.220 I don't really feel like the claim holds up too well.

00:19:40.200 Um, and that's just one person.

00:19:41.980 Uh, I sent you a second link as well.

00:19:44.240 Yeah, let me bring it up here real quick.

00:19:46.320 Yeah, basically just says the same thing.

00:19:48.600 Um, like it's, uh, I don't, I don't really know what more to say on that.

00:19:54.160 It should speak for himself.

00:19:55.300 If your best friends are senior members in the Communist Party in the 1960s, you know, this

00:20:01.140 is, it's not like they, uh, it's not like the modern day where perhaps their history class

00:20:05.400 wasn't so good, they were taught by perhaps socialistic professors or teachers in their

00:20:09.920 grade school.

00:20:10.940 Um, everyone at this point in time knew what the Soviet Union was, they knew about what

00:20:15.000 was coming out of it.

00:20:16.260 Most of these Communist Party members, in fact, uh, tended to visit the Soviet Union and

00:20:20.800 had great things to say about it after leaving.

00:20:22.860 Um, these are the people that, uh, you know, uh, Martin Luther King surrounded himself with.

00:20:29.880 Um, so I, I don't want to, you know, over make a point here.

00:20:34.200 I feel like that should hopefully speak for itself.

00:20:37.000 Nope, absolutely.

00:20:38.280 So, you know, again, whether he actively completely embraced the ideology of communism, it's very

00:20:46.080 clear that he had no problem, you know, with, with kind of having these people, as you

00:20:51.220 said, as key parts of his inner circle.

00:20:54.080 He also spoke specifically about kind of his opponent, uh, his opposition to specific,

00:21:01.460 uh, parts of the free market here.

00:21:03.800 I think I've got one with his 1966 speech.

00:21:08.100 I'm sorry, you didn't, this is the one you already talked about, did?

00:21:10.760 Ah, okay.

00:21:11.780 Well, I mean, yeah, we can pull that up if, uh, it would only make the point better.

00:21:16.080 Um, yeah.

00:21:17.120 If you want to like control F the paragraph that I would be referencing, because I also

00:21:20.980 pulled this up a minute ago, uh, would be only a few weeks ago is how the sentence

00:21:25.440 starts.

00:21:26.500 Um, okay.

00:21:27.920 Then we might have different quotes.

00:21:29.180 Well, why don't you go ahead and read the quote then?

00:21:31.460 So I have right here an article from the nation.

00:21:34.120 Um, 1966, uh, Dr. King himself is talking about the state of, you know, government domestic

00:21:41.520 policy, specifically on economics.

00:21:43.360 And he says this.

00:21:45.380 Only a few weeks ago, the president presented a plan to Congress for rebuilding entire slum

00:21:50.680 neighborhoods.

00:21:51.960 With other elements of this program, it would, in his words, make the decaying cities of the

00:21:56.220 present into the masterpieces of our civilization.

00:21:59.380 Typical rhetoric out of the great society.

00:22:02.320 This plan is imaginative.

00:22:03.880 It embodies social vision and properly defines racial discrimination as a central evil.

00:22:08.940 However, the ordinary Negro, uh, the ordinary Negro, though no social or political analyst,

00:22:15.840 will be skeptical.

00:22:17.560 Uh, he knows, he knows how many laws exist in northern states and cities that prohibit

00:22:22.560 discrimination in housing, in education, in employment.

00:22:25.760 He knows how many overlapping commissions exist to enforce the terms of these laws, and

00:22:29.860 he know how, he knows how he lives.

00:22:31.940 The ubiquitous discrimination in his daily life tells him that more laws on paper, no matter

00:22:36.720 how breathtaking their terminology, will not guarantee that he will live in a masterpiece

00:22:40.720 of civilization.

00:22:42.400 Laws affirming Negro rights have in every case been circumvented by ingenious evasions,

00:22:46.840 which render them void in practice.

00:22:48.840 Laws that affect the whole population, draft laws, income tax laws, traffic laws, do work,

00:22:55.060 even though they are unpopular.

00:22:56.900 But laws passed for the Negro's benefit are so widely unenforced that it is a mockery to

00:23:01.220 call them laws.

00:23:02.320 The missing ingredient is no longer the will of governments to enact legislation.

00:23:06.020 What is absent is the will to make it operative.

00:23:09.400 There is a double standard in the enforcement of law, a double standard in the respect for

00:23:13.860 particular laws.

00:23:14.840 So that's Martin Luther King right there saying the federal government is not doing enough.

00:23:18.960 The federal government has a lot of fancy words to say, but it's not acting on it.

00:23:22.860 We need more, the federal government needs to act more, it needs to be more forceful.

00:23:27.240 He's already in there admitting just the complete web of bureaucracy that's surrounding the average

00:23:32.240 person's life in these northern cities.

00:23:34.120 You know, the ones that don't even have the segregation in law to deal with beforehand.

00:23:38.500 And he's saying, yeah, but we could do much more.

00:23:41.620 You know, this isn't exactly conservative rhetoric.

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00:24:13.000 Yeah, I see Harry Robinson in here from Low Seeders.

00:24:20.540 Harry, hey, thanks for coming by.

00:24:22.260 He said he disagreed with communism being atheistic and consequentialist.

00:24:26.480 He did not disagree with its economic program.

00:24:29.040 He applauded its desire for social justice.

00:24:31.600 And I think you can get this from another section of his, from a speech of his in 1966.

00:24:36.060 Here I have, he says, you can't talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars.

00:24:43.220 You can't talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of the slums.

00:24:49.520 You're really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then.

00:24:55.180 You're messing with captains of industry.

00:24:57.440 Now this means we are treading into difficult waters because it really means what you're saying is there's something wrong with capitalism.

00:25:02.960 There must be a better distribution of wealth.

00:25:04.880 And maybe America must move towards a democratic socialism.

00:25:08.960 So again, people might or might not have some, you know, level of, of sympathy with that language.

00:25:18.160 The point is not, again, to say, hey, you know, he's entirely wrong about there being, you know, some issues with capitalism in different parts of this or captains of industry at times.

00:25:29.500 The point is when kind of your mainstream GOP conservative says, well, he was just about having government get out of the way and stop oppressing people.

00:25:40.140 So then everyone could just be equal.

00:25:42.180 It's very clear that actually Martin, that MLK had very specific ideas about how the government should rectify the situation.

00:25:49.780 And it was not getting out of the way.

00:25:51.740 It was actively taking steps for things like redistribution, especially through the programs that you were talking about.

00:25:58.280 The incentivization of different things through things like the great society.

00:26:02.280 So that's a key part of what we're talking about here.

00:26:05.380 So the next thing I wanted to focus on was a little bit of the idea that King was a very ardent Christian whose ideas were completely born out of kind of his respect for kind of Christian doctrine,

00:26:22.520 you know, Orthodox Christian doctrine, and that he, you know, these are the motivating factors, the kind behind kind of all of his actions.

00:26:31.580 So there's a couple of different ways we could go on this, but kind of what do you want to touch on first in that area?

00:26:36.720 Well, you know, I did a lot of mock trial stuff.

00:26:41.060 So my first instinct is to go to what the persons themselves say.

00:26:45.220 In this case, I've sent you a link to the Gospel Coalition.

00:26:48.540 Once again, chosen very deliberately because, you know, most conservative evangelicals would know that that's, you know,

00:26:54.660 the Gospel Coalition is probably about as conservative evangelical as Mitt Romney is a conservative Republican.

00:27:01.160 Just hopefully an analogy that, you know, they would understand there.

00:27:04.400 Immediately makes sense, yeah.

00:27:05.400 Yeah, so that link to the Gospel Coalition, point six in particular, we have these very, very sympathetic evangelicals talking about what King himself believed.

00:27:16.860 For those that don't know how this stuff works, you know, how do you become an educated pastor?

00:27:22.180 Depending on the qualifications, you eventually get to seminary, which is basically a pastor's college,

00:27:26.940 and you write the equivalent of a master's thesis in order to get your certification or degree or whatever equivalent.

00:27:33.500 King went to what can be called a very theologically liberal seminary.

00:27:40.160 That is, it was more on the interpretive, historicist side.

00:27:46.320 It wasn't fundamental.

00:27:48.300 In the modern day, you might look to the largest Methodist church in the United States, the ELCA, the Unitarian Universalists,

00:27:59.920 the Presbyterian Church of the USA.

00:28:01.860 You know, these are all sort of like the inheritors of this theological liberalism for those Christians that do care about this point.

00:28:10.520 He was in the same exact discipline, and he has a thesis that he wrote and a variety of other papers that we have

00:28:17.720 because we collect papers of public intellectuals, and he's in there specifically pitting himself as the opposite of Christian fundamentalists.

00:28:26.520 The Gospel Coalition has very, very kindly referred to him as unorthodox, but if you read just a little bit farther,

00:28:35.000 he is denying the divinity of Christ.

00:28:37.580 He is denying the virgin birth.

00:28:39.820 He's denying a resurrection.

00:28:42.160 And then at the bottom, this little paragraph, if you don't mind, I could read it out just to show people exactly what he believes.

00:28:49.420 He says,

00:29:20.560 So that is King, in his own words, in his own paper, for the seminary that he went to, denying the trinity, denying a, you know, providence,

00:29:36.580 you know, God having a plan for people's salvation, denying that Christ died for sins.

00:29:41.460 That's what those fancy words, substitutionary theory of atonement, mean.

00:29:45.300 When Christians tell you Christ died for your sins, that's what those fancy words mean.

00:29:48.560 He's denying them, and he's denying a second coming of Christ.

00:29:53.280 I don't know about you, but if I said that in just any church around here, I would probably get kicked out.

00:29:58.580 But if I said I really liked what MLK had to say about Christianity, they would probably laud it.

00:30:03.000 Right.

00:30:03.520 Which is a major contradiction.

00:30:06.260 Yes.

00:30:07.000 Yeah, no, again, I think that's very huge.

00:30:09.440 A lot of people want, because King, of course, used biblical language, he used theological language,

00:30:16.480 and so many people are desperate for, I think, an acknowledgement of the importance of that kind of language

00:30:25.720 and that kind of determining factor in your morality, which it absolutely should be.

00:30:31.200 They rush to affirm King without understanding, I think, again, anything beyond the I have a dream speech.

00:30:37.600 I really think that's almost everything that anyone has ever heard of King, especially the public education system.

00:30:46.180 People just don't hear much else.

00:30:47.800 It's really funny because I did a quick Google search for the truth about Martin Luther King, that kind of thing,

00:30:54.440 and they're not right-wing videos.

00:30:55.980 It's a bunch of left-wing, progressive videos, all detailing everything we're talking about now.

00:31:02.820 They have exactly the same points we're making.

00:31:05.720 They're simply praising them.

00:31:07.660 They're excited about them.

00:31:09.080 They're glad that actually this is who King was.

00:31:12.140 He wasn't some reactionary, Bible-thumping, color-blind guy.

00:31:18.600 He held a lot of the beliefs that are today advanced under the umbrella of progressivism.

00:31:26.160 So they have all the same facts.

00:31:28.020 They're bringing forward all the same points that we're pointing out now.

00:31:31.420 These things aren't really in high dispute, as you can tell by the fact that they're easily quotable and attainable,

00:31:36.620 even on sources that are very left-leaning, as you pointed out, like Wikipedia and others.

00:31:41.020 They are real things.

00:31:43.540 They're just celebrated instead of attacked due to the fact that progressives like what they have to say.

00:31:50.160 Right, and you can – I remember probably about a year ago when I was really looking into specifically the civil rights era for the first time.

00:31:58.340 One of the questions I had is who really is publishing the most MLK in the modern day?

00:32:03.740 Who's republishing trying to get that word out?

00:32:06.060 The full, unadulterated speeches that he just wrote.

00:32:09.060 Because in a public school textbook or a class or something like that, as I'm sure you and I are both familiar with,

00:32:15.480 you don't get the whole thing.

00:32:16.720 You get excerpts.

00:32:17.720 You might get clips from a speech, something like that, things that put him in the best possible light.

00:32:23.380 The only places that I could really find just republishing him word for word in the modern day,

00:32:28.700 and not to beat a dead horse, was the Communist Party's website.

00:32:32.860 Right.

00:32:34.360 So, you know, I'm not going to just say guilt by association therefore,

00:32:39.680 but I will just leave you, the audience, with the question of,

00:32:42.940 if the only people that still endorse word for word everything that MLK still says,

00:32:48.020 or says still to this day, is the Communist Party,

00:32:51.460 you might want to reevaluate a couple of things about who's being praised,

00:32:55.700 what are their motives, is this really what conservatives believe and should be idealizing?

00:33:01.200 And so the next thing I wanted to get to was the idea that King was a super patriotic American,

00:33:10.740 that at the end of the day, he really loved the country,

00:33:13.900 and this was all about his hope that one day it would live up to its true promise,

00:33:19.760 that he believed deeply in the roots of the country,

00:33:22.920 and it had gone astray, much as, again, the kind of the conservative narrative,

00:33:27.440 and one day it will bear out the promise of this.

00:33:31.700 And there's a couple of things we can look at here.

00:33:34.360 You know, he did refer to the country as one founded in genocide.

00:33:39.180 He had attacks on the Declaration of Independence and its meaning for Blacks,

00:33:44.900 since it was written by slave owners, again,

00:33:47.160 something that you would hear from somebody like Ibram X. Kendi or someone today.

00:33:51.320 But he also had very unkind words for American foreign policy and those who executed it.

00:33:58.780 Now, again, you might be totally on board with this.

00:34:01.540 You might say, look, I didn't like the Vietnam War.

00:34:03.920 I don't like American policy now.

00:34:05.840 I don't like America as an empire.

00:34:09.040 But it's very clear that his feelings went beyond that.

00:34:12.780 He had a different view of kind of America and other Western nations' role

00:34:17.740 that, again, sounds very similar to what many college professors push today.

00:34:23.440 Right.

00:34:24.120 And there's two kinds of attacking imperialism.

00:34:29.240 If for people that aren't familiar with American history,

00:34:32.740 after the Spanish-American War, the Americans took the Philippines.

00:34:36.660 There was the big political divide after that was anti-imperialist versus imperialist.

00:34:41.420 And you just need to read for five minutes either side to see they both really, really love the country.

00:34:46.100 They love their people.

00:34:47.440 They love their heritage.

00:34:48.360 They love the country itself.

00:34:49.940 And that's why they take the position that they take.

00:34:53.740 So, you know, we see already anti-imperialism versus imperialism, you know, basically 1900,

00:34:59.360 way predating civil rights.

00:35:02.120 And then we get to the Vietnam War and the types that then take up the mantle of anti-imperialism.

00:35:07.760 And the rhetoric turns much, much different because I'm sure anyone that is related to a veteran,

00:35:14.840 someone that got drafted, didn't really want to even go over there to begin with.

00:35:18.220 They just got told, you have to go.

00:35:20.440 Those people were treated absolutely terribly by left-wing activists in particular.

00:35:25.760 You know, the common narrative, whether or not it's true,

00:35:29.280 something that apparently has a kernel of truth because people still tell it,

00:35:32.540 especially the people that were there, were that you would have left-wing activists that would show up to spit on them after they got home.

00:35:38.120 You know, these people that were drafted against their will, not the, you know, gung-ho volunteers of previous wars.

00:35:44.540 MLK, I would be, I would hazard a guess that he didn't do any spitting.

00:35:48.880 But what he did was a lot of rhetorical, very flowery rhetorical attacks against them.

00:35:55.200 And every single time he would mention Vietnam, which was a lot of his repertoire,

00:36:00.560 he would basically, you know, by association, syllogism and all these other rhetorical devices,

00:36:07.020 say that anyone that fought in this war on the American side,

00:36:10.680 way after the French were involved in all this other stuff, you know, in our phase of the war,

00:36:15.740 were colonizers.

00:36:16.820 They were there killing babies.

00:36:18.500 They were there burning down houses for the fun of it.

00:36:21.140 They were killing more of our Vietnamese than the communists and all this other.

00:36:25.200 Things that we now know are not actually based in reality,

00:36:28.640 but were rather, you know, leftist talking points of the 1960s.

00:36:32.700 And this is really why I wanted to hit home on this,

00:36:36.580 is because the modern conservative movement, most conservatives nowadays,

00:36:39.680 most sensible people, will say that they want to take their positions

00:36:42.740 based off of reality, based off of facts and not feelings.

00:36:47.020 But if you look at the rhetoric coming out of Vietnam,

00:36:50.020 or coming out of MLK about Vietnam,

00:36:52.060 he's not really focusing on facts,

00:36:55.660 already a very anti-conservative value,

00:36:57.800 if I'm to believe the rhetoric of conservatives today.

00:37:01.280 And instead, he attacks them quite viciously.

00:37:04.320 And I believe it's American rhetoric is where you can go

00:37:07.680 and find a lot of King's speeches on Vietnam in particular.

00:37:10.840 But we can get a summary here that Aron has pulled up from Stanford.

00:37:15.060 Once again, Ivy League universities,

00:37:17.060 he's not known for being the most right-wing hotbeds in the country.

00:37:21.100 Right.

00:37:21.140 And when he summarizes,

00:37:24.120 this summarizes King's view of nationalism.

00:37:28.740 There's a whole language debate about nationalism or patriotism

00:37:32.980 and all this other stuff.

00:37:35.000 Most conservatives will say they are patriotic,

00:37:37.280 and they will describe what, to a leftist, is nationalism.

00:37:40.920 That's just how the language games work.

00:37:43.560 Nationalism is the scary word that you're not allowed to hold,

00:37:45.660 and they will persecute you if you do hold to it.

00:37:47.520 And patriotism is the allowed word,

00:37:49.620 but we don't really agree on what it means as a society,

00:37:52.040 so it's who knows what it means.

00:37:54.700 Martin Luther King attacked what he called nationalism,

00:37:57.780 and he used the age-old attack of saying

00:38:00.620 that it was Adolf Hitler's ideology.

00:38:02.980 So you got strike number one there for the conservatives.

00:38:05.600 He's appealing to Hitler.

00:38:07.620 Who is basically like Joseph McCarthy.

00:38:10.080 Yeah, he says that the McCarthy-eyed attacks

00:38:12.660 were a manifestation of nationalism,

00:38:15.500 which, you know, if you read through it,

00:38:19.420 I'm of the opinion McCarthy had more right than wrong.

00:38:22.540 Some in the audience might disagree.

00:38:24.680 But something that wasn't controversial at the time,

00:38:27.420 you have to keep in mind,

00:38:29.100 in the 50s and in the 60s,

00:38:31.480 was that, you know,

00:38:32.480 there probably were communists in high places

00:38:34.660 that were influencing the country.

00:38:36.500 That was never denied in the media,

00:38:40.300 in the Senate, in the House,

00:38:42.220 or any of these other places.

00:38:43.280 It was just the degree of which they would disagree about.

00:38:47.440 It was the witch-hunting that they didn't like,

00:38:49.180 not the fact that there might have been.

00:38:51.200 King here, however,

00:38:52.640 is taking a very radical stance

00:38:54.540 in saying that any inquiries

00:38:56.440 into communist activity in American society

00:38:58.680 are evil nationalism,

00:39:01.120 which doesn't sound conservative to me, but...

00:39:05.300 Sounds like an MSNBC host.

00:39:07.120 You're not allowed to ask these questions.

00:39:08.660 This just means you're a secret nationalist.

00:39:11.420 Yeah, you're a crypto-fascist, right?

00:39:14.620 That's the actual indication here.

00:39:16.600 And by the way,

00:39:17.180 if you need some documentation

00:39:18.680 of communists high up in government positions,

00:39:23.900 there's plenty of good books,

00:39:25.240 but you can go to James Burnham's Web of Deceit.

00:39:28.420 Or is it Deceit, Deception?

00:39:30.240 I'm trying to remember at the top of my head.

00:39:32.280 I remember it as Deceit,

00:39:34.440 but I'm not the Burnham expert.

00:39:36.900 Yeah, but he lays out in detail

00:39:40.360 large numbers of different people

00:39:41.900 in all kinds of different government departments

00:39:44.440 who had explicitly these connections.

00:39:47.080 It's not some speculation.

00:39:48.660 It's not some wild-eyed conspiracy theory.

00:39:50.840 It's easily documentable,

00:39:52.140 even back when Burnham was doing it,

00:39:54.040 and it is even more so today.

00:39:56.460 But yeah, he attacks this idea of nationalism.

00:39:59.460 He goes into specifically the need for,

00:40:04.320 or says that you can't worship God and the nation,

00:40:08.700 which of course is just a smear

00:40:10.680 pretending that someone who cares about their nation

00:40:12.680 can't possibly care about God.

00:40:14.480 And he's implying here,

00:40:15.520 not just implying,

00:40:16.560 but really following up on a regular basis,

00:40:18.420 saying basically we have to be globalists.

00:40:20.900 We have to have this global view.

00:40:22.920 And that's the major point

00:40:23.900 that I was going to hit very quickly here,

00:40:25.640 is that he goes beyond

00:40:27.180 even what commentators I hear today anyways.

00:40:29.900 He doesn't just stop at nationalism evil

00:40:31.720 and then let the viewer decide

00:40:33.820 what few options they have,

00:40:35.220 which one they want.

00:40:36.460 He says,

00:40:37.040 there is a moral imperative

00:40:38.160 for internationalism or globalism.

00:40:40.660 On that sort of,

00:40:41.840 the last quote of the last paragraph

00:40:43.720 starts at,

00:40:44.460 beyond the calling of race or nation or creed.

00:40:46.280 The full quote is,

00:40:48.000 beyond the calling of race or nation or creed,

00:40:50.540 is this vocation of sonship and brotherhood.

00:40:53.160 This, I believe,

00:40:53.880 to be the privilege and burden

00:40:55.280 of all of us who deem ourselves

00:40:57.260 bound by allegiances and loyalties

00:40:58.960 broader and deeper than nationalism.

00:41:00.960 So he is saying

00:41:01.820 there is a moral imperative

00:41:02.860 for you, the American,

00:41:04.420 to, you know,

00:41:05.140 put yourself on exactly the same level

00:41:07.280 as anyone else in the world.

00:41:09.520 Which, hopefully,

00:41:11.560 we can break past the language games

00:41:13.380 just really quickly here,

00:41:14.500 and I can make the claim

00:41:15.680 that that attacks both patriotism

00:41:17.640 and nationalism.

00:41:18.980 This sort of global equality,

00:41:20.960 you are not allowed to value

00:41:22.140 your land better than anyone else's

00:41:23.940 because, you know,

00:41:25.180 it's your heritage, your own.

00:41:26.660 You grew up there.

00:41:27.420 You're not allowed to like that.

00:41:29.320 King is saying

00:41:29.840 you have a burden

00:41:30.700 to just be an equal brotherhood

00:41:32.740 with everyone else.

00:41:34.280 A sort of a, you know,

00:41:35.700 a Christian language.

00:41:38.700 Internationalism is what

00:41:39.420 he's appealing to here.

00:41:41.940 Absolutely.

00:41:42.720 So I wanted to start

00:41:44.160 with those things first

00:41:45.520 because I want to be clear

00:41:46.900 that I've seen people

00:41:49.000 talk about King

00:41:50.260 and his history

00:41:51.520 and his legacy,

00:41:52.180 and sometimes people

00:41:53.820 who are trying to show

00:41:54.560 the other side

00:41:55.080 go directly to personal attacks

00:41:56.700 about him.

00:41:57.660 And the reason I started

00:41:58.980 with ideology

00:42:00.280 is I wanted to be clear

00:42:02.100 that this is first and foremost

00:42:04.100 an ideological gap

00:42:06.680 between King

00:42:08.220 and conservatism.

00:42:10.140 That his values,

00:42:11.380 his beliefs,

00:42:12.060 his outlook,

00:42:13.260 his views

00:42:14.060 were much, much,

00:42:15.800 much closer

00:42:16.720 to the average

00:42:19.320 college professor,

00:42:20.460 the average, you know,

00:42:21.980 civil rights activist,

00:42:24.600 or obviously he was

00:42:25.560 a civil rights activist,

00:42:26.660 but the average

00:42:28.000 social justice activist today,

00:42:31.860 his views were far closer

00:42:33.560 to the ideas

00:42:35.340 of something like,

00:42:36.080 somebody like Ibram X. Kendi

00:42:37.300 than they are

00:42:38.160 to any kind of conservative.

00:42:40.520 He had very specific

00:42:41.660 attacks

00:42:42.660 towards people

00:42:44.220 like Barry Goldwater.

00:42:45.660 He was not someone

00:42:46.780 who had any respect

00:42:48.340 for the conservative movement,

00:42:50.560 for the principles

00:42:51.260 of the conservative movement,

00:42:52.480 for the ideas

00:42:53.540 that are today

00:42:54.520 attributed to him

00:42:55.740 by people

00:42:56.320 in the conservative movement.

00:42:58.480 And so before we move on

00:42:59.960 to his personal issues,

00:43:02.900 which we,

00:43:03.640 I think,

00:43:04.220 are important

00:43:05.420 because of the,

00:43:06.800 almost the deified nature

00:43:08.200 that it's placed

00:43:08.860 on King today,

00:43:10.800 I just want to make it clear

00:43:11.860 that this is not

00:43:12.780 a dirty laundry session.

00:43:14.260 This is not us

00:43:15.140 slinging mud

00:43:16.380 and poisoning the well

00:43:18.320 before you interact

00:43:20.160 with King's own words.

00:43:21.640 That's why we took you

00:43:22.560 through King's own words,

00:43:23.760 his own speeches,

00:43:25.040 his own ideology,

00:43:26.640 his own,

00:43:27.380 you know,

00:43:28.000 willingness to place himself

00:43:29.700 in connection

00:43:30.380 with different individuals

00:43:31.320 before we get to

00:43:32.680 then his personal life.

00:43:33.720 Because I don't like

00:43:35.100 the personal attacks

00:43:35.980 because at the end of the day,

00:43:37.600 personal life,

00:43:38.960 you know,

00:43:39.200 there are many flawed leaders

00:43:41.300 who are great, right?

00:43:42.540 Like, so just going through

00:43:43.740 the personal flaws

00:43:45.060 of people who led great lives

00:43:47.040 is a sure way

00:43:48.180 to make sure

00:43:48.560 that no one ever has heroes.

00:43:49.900 So I want to make that

00:43:50.760 very clear

00:43:51.480 before we move forward

00:43:52.560 that that is the main

00:43:54.320 point of departure

00:43:55.320 that I think conservatives

00:43:56.320 should take away

00:43:57.100 when they rethink

00:43:58.140 their relationship

00:43:59.240 to Martin Luther King Jr.

00:44:00.920 and kind of his,

00:44:02.000 his ideology.

00:44:04.220 That said,

00:44:05.200 because of the deification

00:44:06.320 of King,

00:44:07.060 because so many people

00:44:08.000 have placed him

00:44:08.760 kind of in a pedestal,

00:44:10.420 he was this man of God,

00:44:11.620 he was leading these,

00:44:12.760 this,

00:44:13.040 this movement

00:44:13.540 of moral righteousness

00:44:14.580 and has no connection

00:44:16.740 to this kind of stuff.

00:44:18.200 I think it does make sense

00:44:19.680 to take a moment

00:44:20.720 and look at the way

00:44:22.100 he behaved himself personally

00:44:24.100 because there are

00:44:26.180 some very,

00:44:26.920 very serious charges

00:44:28.000 and they're ones

00:44:29.300 that I think

00:44:30.040 speak to the priorities

00:44:31.940 of King

00:44:33.020 and kind of his

00:44:33.760 true connection

00:44:34.540 to maybe his Christianity

00:44:35.940 and general morality

00:44:37.080 which a lot of people

00:44:38.760 kind of hold him up on.

00:44:40.760 So let's go with,

00:44:42.600 oh sorry,

00:44:43.000 go ahead.

00:44:43.320 Yeah,

00:44:43.460 just one interjection.

00:44:44.480 This is only necessary

00:44:45.580 because people like

00:44:46.820 the modern conservative movement

00:44:48.140 may come out

00:44:48.780 to be a moral leader,

00:44:50.380 someone that you should

00:44:51.120 emulate in your personal life.

00:44:53.080 Yes.

00:44:53.420 Otherwise,

00:44:53.880 this would be

00:44:54.240 completely irrelevant,

00:44:55.260 yes,

00:44:55.640 but the claims

00:44:56.560 that are made

00:44:57.160 in the modern day

00:44:57.760 make this relevant

00:44:58.620 that hopefully

00:45:00.040 by the end of it

00:45:00.720 you should know

00:45:01.120 that you probably

00:45:01.900 shouldn't emulate MLK

00:45:03.380 in his personal life.

00:45:05.040 Right.

00:45:05.540 So the first one

00:45:06.300 I want to go to

00:45:06.920 is the more mild one.

00:45:08.460 It's the one

00:45:09.260 that I think

00:45:10.640 is worth acknowledging

00:45:12.640 but isn't,

00:45:14.220 you know,

00:45:14.520 in and of itself

00:45:15.340 the end of the world

00:45:16.460 which is his plagiarism,

00:45:18.180 right?

00:45:18.580 It seems like

00:45:19.700 both in his doctoral work

00:45:22.400 and in other places

00:45:24.280 including speeches,

00:45:25.060 he was willing

00:45:26.360 to lift stuff.

00:45:28.060 I don't really

00:45:29.440 begrudge him

00:45:30.280 so much in his speeches.

00:45:31.300 I think iterating

00:45:32.580 on rhetoric

00:45:33.180 is part of that

00:45:34.620 and in some cases

00:45:35.460 he didn't even write

00:45:36.340 some parts of his own speeches

00:45:37.760 so is that his fault?

00:45:39.420 Is that the fault

00:45:40.000 of his speech writers?

00:45:41.360 You know,

00:45:41.600 I don't hold that one

00:45:42.900 so much against him

00:45:44.020 but,

00:45:44.740 you know,

00:45:45.120 if you're going to do

00:45:45.800 a doctoral work

00:45:48.340 in theology,

00:45:49.720 plagiarism is probably

00:45:50.460 not the best place

00:45:51.100 to do it,

00:45:51.460 right?

00:45:52.080 Yeah,

00:45:52.260 yeah,

00:45:52.400 because he is also

00:45:53.560 an academic.

00:45:54.180 Right.

00:45:55.240 And a,

00:45:56.040 you know,

00:45:56.340 a national writer.

00:45:58.040 Speeches you can excuse

00:45:59.080 because,

00:45:59.420 you know,

00:45:59.560 most people will have

00:46:00.460 a speech writer

00:46:01.280 or a rhetorical consultant

00:46:02.980 or something to make sure

00:46:04.440 that your speeches

00:46:04.940 are professional.

00:46:05.940 If you're writing

00:46:06.780 for publication,

00:46:08.280 writing a thesis,

00:46:09.560 writing for,

00:46:10.320 you know,

00:46:11.160 seminary or something

00:46:11.900 like that,

00:46:12.800 plagiarism becomes

00:46:13.840 a very dark stain

00:46:15.420 of dishonesty

00:46:16.200 because you are supposed

00:46:18.080 to be contributing

00:46:18.860 something new

00:46:19.660 that comes from you

00:46:20.700 so that you can

00:46:21.480 get certified

00:46:22.080 or recognized

00:46:24.260 or whatnot else,

00:46:25.320 published.

00:46:27.160 And if you plagiarize,

00:46:29.020 you are taking credit

00:46:30.280 from someone

00:46:31.340 for your own

00:46:32.780 and also lying

00:46:34.940 to other people

00:46:35.600 by saying that you're

00:46:36.300 better than you actually are.

00:46:38.180 You know,

00:46:38.780 once again,

00:46:39.340 this wouldn't be a problem

00:46:40.300 if King and the

00:46:41.600 modern conservative movement

00:46:42.620 and all this other stuff

00:46:43.360 didn't make himself out

00:46:44.620 to be an academic

00:46:45.500 or,

00:46:46.660 you know,

00:46:46.860 a theologian

00:46:48.340 or anything like that,

00:46:49.220 but that's that's just

00:46:50.080 the way that the cards

00:46:50.820 have fallen.

00:46:52.540 So where did you

00:46:54.560 want to start with that?

00:46:56.740 Like I said,

00:46:57.440 we don't we don't have

00:46:58.220 to get too deep

00:46:59.320 into the into the plagiarism

00:47:01.120 because like I said,

00:47:02.060 I feel like that's

00:47:02.980 that's more of the minor one.

00:47:05.360 If you want specific examples,

00:47:07.280 you can.

00:47:08.120 It's just there

00:47:08.860 there is a certain percentage

00:47:09.840 of his doctoral work

00:47:11.620 that does seem like

00:47:12.380 it was plagiarized.

00:47:13.800 And again,

00:47:14.260 you know,

00:47:14.600 those things appear

00:47:15.360 in the speeches,

00:47:15.920 but I didn't.

00:47:17.460 Like I said,

00:47:17.940 I don't want to go

00:47:19.140 the the the receipts

00:47:20.500 are there,

00:47:20.980 but I don't want

00:47:21.420 to get too exhaustive

00:47:22.320 because I don't feel

00:47:23.020 like this is the meat

00:47:23.920 of the point here.

00:47:25.060 It's more of a passing

00:47:26.180 thing to to acknowledge

00:47:27.740 that some kind of slam

00:47:29.600 dunk on King's character.

00:47:31.920 Right.

00:47:32.100 And funnily enough,

00:47:34.040 you can still see this

00:47:35.300 from those same factions

00:47:36.460 in the modern day.

00:47:37.900 If you want to,

00:47:39.180 if someone,

00:47:40.280 some enterprising

00:47:41.180 individual out there

00:47:41.980 kept a list of times

00:47:43.220 that public figures

00:47:44.020 have plagiarized

00:47:44.980 other people,

00:47:46.360 I would bet you

00:47:47.240 that that list

00:47:47.880 could probably make

00:47:48.700 a book that looks

00:47:49.600 like a congressional record,

00:47:50.780 you know,

00:47:50.960 something about the size

00:47:51.840 of a of a person's head

00:47:53.600 or a laptop

00:47:54.220 or something like that.

00:47:56.200 It would be a long list.

00:47:57.800 Your sitting president

00:47:58.640 plagiarized Neil Kinnick,

00:48:00.360 the Labour Party leader

00:48:01.380 in the UK

00:48:01.860 when he was running

00:48:02.640 for Congress

00:48:03.800 the first time.

00:48:05.640 Happens all the time.

00:48:07.480 As you said,

00:48:08.360 a small mark against King,

00:48:09.620 but one to keep in mind

00:48:10.640 is fundamentally dishonest.

00:48:13.560 So the larger issue,

00:48:15.540 the one that I think

00:48:16.660 is far more damning

00:48:18.220 as for King

00:48:20.140 as a moral leader

00:48:20.920 is his sexual conduct.

00:48:24.420 It's been sealed.

00:48:27.060 I think specifically

00:48:27.980 the FBI files

00:48:29.440 are sealed

00:48:30.240 until I think 2027,

00:48:32.760 if I have that correct.

00:48:35.060 It was a number of,

00:48:36.100 it was like a,

00:48:37.580 I think a little less

00:48:38.380 than a decade

00:48:38.880 after they were originally

00:48:39.960 supposed to be publicized

00:48:41.640 just because FBI policy

00:48:43.440 and other state documents,

00:48:46.100 if something is classified,

00:48:47.160 I believe it is,

00:48:48.240 what is it,

00:48:49.140 about 80 years

00:48:49.860 or something like that

00:48:50.620 until they can be made

00:48:51.700 publicly declassified.

00:48:55.260 King's was supposed to expire,

00:48:56.920 it was three years ago,

00:48:58.420 I think,

00:48:58.740 because I think

00:48:59.200 I was still in high school

00:49:00.140 whenever,

00:49:00.660 when I was waiting

00:49:01.260 for the documents to release

00:49:02.600 only for the government

00:49:04.820 to announce,

00:49:05.480 oh, by the way,

00:49:06.420 we're extending

00:49:07.160 the classification period

00:49:08.380 on this.

00:49:08.920 You don't get to see this now

00:49:10.560 until the late 2020s,

00:49:12.700 which is kind of

00:49:14.920 what they've done

00:49:15.400 all the time.

00:49:16.620 Yeah, and if I am correct on this,

00:49:19.120 I believe Sam Francis

00:49:20.020 in his article

00:49:21.200 on the MLK holiday

00:49:22.600 said that

00:49:23.360 it was specifically requested

00:49:25.280 by members of Congress

00:49:27.100 that these records

00:49:29.580 be unsealed early

00:49:30.880 so that they could review them

00:49:32.360 before voting

00:49:33.100 for the Martin Luther King holiday,

00:49:35.020 but that was denied

00:49:36.440 specifically

00:49:37.820 they felt like

00:49:39.920 it was important

00:49:40.540 to have that clarification

00:49:41.740 and understanding

00:49:42.960 of King's background

00:49:43.780 before he was

00:49:44.660 raised to the level

00:49:46.480 of George Washington

00:49:47.560 having his own

00:49:48.360 national holiday.

00:49:49.940 Specifically raised

00:49:50.920 to the level

00:49:51.440 of the old

00:49:52.120 Robert E. Lee

00:49:52.980 and Thomas Jackson

00:49:53.980 because that was what

00:49:55.120 the Martin Luther King Day

00:49:56.100 replaced,

00:49:57.240 which a lot of

00:49:58.680 public controversy

00:49:59.460 over them,

00:50:00.220 but the purpose of the day

00:50:01.160 was that they

00:50:01.680 in their life

00:50:02.800 were morally upstanding,

00:50:04.600 a sort of a role model

00:50:06.460 for Americans,

00:50:07.620 if you will,

00:50:08.660 which most reputable

00:50:10.740 historians wouldn't dispute that.

00:50:13.460 Those are both seen

00:50:14.420 as some of the cleaner figures

00:50:15.640 to come out of the South.

00:50:17.180 That was the original holiday

00:50:19.340 that was there

00:50:19.900 in most states,

00:50:21.100 only to be replaced

00:50:22.360 by MLK Day,

00:50:23.980 which, of course,

00:50:24.980 if you're replacing

00:50:25.560 a holiday of two

00:50:26.940 very established figures

00:50:28.300 in American history

00:50:29.440 with MLK,

00:50:31.460 suddenly it makes

00:50:32.180 a lot more sense

00:50:32.940 why these lawmakers

00:50:33.880 wanted to know

00:50:34.700 what was he doing

00:50:35.620 in his personal life

00:50:36.500 exactly.

00:50:38.000 Deep State says

00:50:38.900 you're denied.

00:50:40.060 Well, and that's

00:50:40.480 a really important

00:50:41.300 thing to know.

00:50:42.420 It's a really important

00:50:43.000 detail to know

00:50:43.840 for people who recognize

00:50:45.460 that many of the statues

00:50:46.540 currently being erected

00:50:47.640 are being erected

00:50:48.500 over the places

00:50:49.900 where statues

00:50:51.140 of Southern leaders

00:50:52.060 or founding fathers

00:50:53.020 in many cases

00:50:54.040 were taken down.

00:50:55.740 And so the holiday

00:50:57.020 itself is an original

00:50:59.580 replacement of statues.

00:51:01.920 it is an original

00:51:02.900 tearing down

00:51:03.800 of one honoring

00:51:05.140 of one set of people

00:51:06.460 specifically to replace

00:51:08.260 it with someone else

00:51:09.420 to kind of show

00:51:10.380 to signal a particular message.

00:51:13.420 But that said,

00:51:15.300 what do these,

00:51:17.020 since these are sealed,

00:51:20.040 how do we know

00:51:20.680 about King's personal conduct

00:51:22.560 and what does it reveal?

00:51:25.080 Right.

00:51:25.740 So we do, I believe,

00:51:27.020 have a transcript

00:51:27.820 that was released

00:51:28.680 or leaked

00:51:29.240 or something like that

00:51:30.120 along with other,

00:51:31.600 retired FBI officials

00:51:33.620 that have just come out

00:51:34.560 and say,

00:51:35.360 in summary,

00:51:36.160 here's what you can find

00:51:37.060 in these records

00:51:38.600 once they're released.

00:51:39.900 So the same way

00:51:40.860 you would find out

00:51:41.560 anything about

00:51:42.240 other sort of intelligence

00:51:43.480 or deep state activities,

00:51:45.320 leaks,

00:51:46.700 people that have

00:51:47.720 kind of a hacking work,

00:51:49.080 I guess you could call it

00:51:49.920 if you wanted to get

00:51:50.520 the general idea out there,

00:51:52.000 and retired officials

00:51:53.020 coming out and saying,

00:51:53.880 this is what's actually

00:51:54.720 happening in there.

00:51:56.300 I'm sure that most people

00:51:57.740 in the audience

00:51:58.260 and you yourself are

00:51:59.260 and could think of

00:51:59.840 many other cases

00:52:00.720 in which this is how

00:52:01.800 we've come to know things.

00:52:03.700 Quite famously,

00:52:05.040 you might look back

00:52:05.780 to Edward Snowden

00:52:06.500 because he wasn't

00:52:07.440 the only one doing that

00:52:08.760 at the time,

00:52:09.440 and in fact,

00:52:10.080 you've had other people

00:52:10.820 from the government

00:52:11.460 come out and basically

00:52:12.220 just say,

00:52:12.740 yeah, we were doing this.

00:52:14.520 It probably wasn't legal,

00:52:15.900 but this is the law now,

00:52:17.840 and we're going to prosecute

00:52:19.220 anyone leaking

00:52:20.000 these previously

00:52:22.660 illegal activities.

00:52:23.620 Now, the activities

00:52:28.000 that have been leaked,

00:52:29.200 there are allegations

00:52:30.300 of up to, I believe,

00:52:31.680 40 extramarital affairs

00:52:34.600 by King,

00:52:36.840 not only with women

00:52:38.800 in kind of the normal way

00:52:41.700 that affairs have,

00:52:42.480 but specifically

00:52:43.080 with the purchasing

00:52:43.940 of prostitutes,

00:52:45.680 in some cases,

00:52:46.680 allegedly with the money

00:52:48.000 from the funding

00:52:49.880 that was supposed to go

00:52:51.720 to the civil rights movement

00:52:52.860 or, you know,

00:52:53.740 through religious organizations.

00:52:57.380 Right,

00:52:58.040 and the other thing,

00:52:59.180 yeah,

00:52:59.360 because King got

00:53:00.820 most of his money

00:53:01.560 through, you know,

00:53:03.260 Christians donating to him.

00:53:05.400 I believe it,

00:53:06.300 what was it,

00:53:06.740 Southern Coalition

00:53:09.320 of Religious Leaders

00:53:10.720 or something,

00:53:11.200 something like that.

00:53:13.080 It was a pastor's coalition,

00:53:14.840 basically,

00:53:15.340 the more liberal-minded.

00:53:16.200 More liberal-minded,

00:53:18.920 civil rights pastors,

00:53:21.800 basically,

00:53:22.640 which King was

00:53:23.700 the main one.

00:53:24.820 They had a lot of money

00:53:25.880 to go around.

00:53:26.940 We mentioned earlier

00:53:27.820 that one of the main people

00:53:29.340 in this inner circle

00:53:30.080 was a Communist Party

00:53:31.380 financier, basically.

00:53:33.920 You know,

00:53:34.420 he had money

00:53:35.220 to play around with,

00:53:36.380 and if he didn't have it,

00:53:37.640 he could definitely

00:53:38.200 get more of it.

00:53:39.660 There probably wasn't

00:53:41.160 a major institution

00:53:42.160 that would withhold funds

00:53:43.700 from him

00:53:44.080 at this point in time.

00:53:45.960 And,

00:53:46.700 as you mentioned,

00:53:47.360 he would hire prostitutes,

00:53:48.540 some of which

00:53:49.340 are allegedly underaged,

00:53:51.240 or were allegedly

00:53:52.440 underaged at the time,

00:53:53.940 most of which,

00:53:55.740 that should speak

00:53:58.780 for itself,

00:53:59.400 hopefully.

00:54:01.200 Underage prostitutes,

00:54:02.540 prostitutes in general.

00:54:03.960 There is an allegation

00:54:05.240 that he sat by

00:54:07.420 while one of his friends

00:54:08.480 raped a woman.

00:54:10.880 I can't remember

00:54:11.460 if she was a prostitute

00:54:12.360 or not.

00:54:13.700 I believe she wasn't

00:54:15.420 in the story,

00:54:16.020 but either way,

00:54:16.980 it's immaterial

00:54:17.660 to the point of that

00:54:18.420 he stood by

00:54:18.940 while that happened.

00:54:19.700 Yeah, stood by

00:54:20.380 while it happened.

00:54:20.920 One of his friends,

00:54:21.560 and if I remember correctly,

00:54:22.620 I think he was encouraging

00:54:23.500 him half the time.

00:54:25.500 Yeah, giving advice.

00:54:27.040 Yeah, so,

00:54:27.680 and that was caught on tape.

00:54:29.720 And this is the specific one

00:54:30.920 that the media focused on

00:54:32.000 a few years ago,

00:54:33.300 because their biggest argument

00:54:34.820 for why these things

00:54:35.700 shouldn't be revealed

00:54:36.600 to the public was

00:54:37.520 it will destroy his legacy.

00:54:39.700 Not it's fake,

00:54:41.000 or it was slanderous

00:54:42.140 or illegally obtained

00:54:43.200 or something like that.

00:54:44.360 It will destroy his legacy,

00:54:46.360 which,

00:54:47.320 that's the standard

00:54:48.240 for truth now.

00:54:48.960 I hope everyone understands.

00:54:50.780 It doesn't matter

00:54:51.380 what actually happened,

00:54:52.340 it matters what they

00:54:53.120 want to have happened.

00:54:54.600 So,

00:54:55.300 that's the damning stuff.

00:54:58.800 You have other

00:55:00.280 publicly illicit activities,

00:55:03.860 should we say,

00:55:04.640 that was very common

00:55:05.780 for the civil rights movement.

00:55:07.840 You can look at

00:55:09.060 court records

00:55:10.000 that were given

00:55:10.840 in sort of like

00:55:11.560 on the state level

00:55:12.340 after these civil rights marches.

00:55:14.400 You find a great deal

00:55:15.780 of cases,

00:55:17.460 people testifying

00:55:18.160 to public urination,

00:55:19.240 defecation,

00:55:20.340 sexual acts in public,

00:55:21.540 in churches,

00:55:22.180 on church stairways,

00:55:23.560 and all this other stuff.

00:55:25.400 King,

00:55:26.160 it seems likely,

00:55:27.420 participated

00:55:28.220 in some of those activities.

00:55:30.980 Also,

00:55:31.700 copious amounts

00:55:32.240 of drug use,

00:55:33.600 which was common

00:55:35.840 for those leaders

00:55:37.460 and for his demographic.

00:55:40.340 So,

00:55:40.640 those were the ones

00:55:41.900 that I know,

00:55:42.640 personally,

00:55:43.140 because this is usually

00:55:43.940 where I don't focus as much.

00:55:46.320 Just because I'm,

00:55:47.460 I'm more concerned

00:55:48.340 usually with the historical

00:55:49.380 narrative to get trotted.

00:55:51.520 I,

00:55:51.940 it doesn't matter to me

00:55:53.340 so much if someone says

00:55:54.560 that he's a good person

00:55:55.420 or not just because

00:55:56.080 of what we do know.

00:55:57.880 That's obviously

00:55:58.800 not the case.

00:56:00.120 Yeah,

00:56:00.300 and like I said,

00:56:01.120 that's why I wanted

00:56:02.040 to start with the stuff

00:56:03.100 that was more historically

00:56:04.620 verifiable,

00:56:06.200 more heavily documented.

00:56:08.020 I didn't want to lead

00:56:09.160 with a lot of speculation

00:56:10.180 on those kind of things.

00:56:11.440 And so,

00:56:11.740 it's okay.

00:56:12.100 We don't need to get

00:56:12.960 deeply into that.

00:56:13.900 If you do want

00:56:14.680 some of this documented,

00:56:16.420 a kind of friend

00:56:17.000 of the show,

00:56:17.540 Pedro Gonzalez,

00:56:19.220 had a article

00:56:20.720 in his sub stack

00:56:22.460 where he lays out

00:56:23.680 some of the documentation

00:56:24.520 for some of these

00:56:25.840 activities as well.

00:56:27.040 So,

00:56:27.240 so if you,

00:56:28.180 again,

00:56:28.560 they,

00:56:28.900 they are not,

00:56:29.580 verbatim in his words

00:56:31.120 stuff like we have

00:56:32.100 with some of the stuff

00:56:33.000 we led with.

00:56:34.080 But if you want

00:56:34.540 to know more about that,

00:56:35.720 you can check out

00:56:36.500 Pedro's piece

00:56:37.260 over at his sub stack.

00:56:39.040 I know,

00:56:39.320 I know other people

00:56:40.060 have that documentation

00:56:41.040 as well,

00:56:41.940 but we don't,

00:56:43.080 again,

00:56:43.380 that's why I wanted

00:56:44.400 to focus on the stuff

00:56:45.880 that we can verify

00:56:46.900 that we know for sure

00:56:47.860 that is directly germane

00:56:49.520 to the conservative movement

00:56:51.000 and the beliefs

00:56:52.240 of conservatives

00:56:53.540 because I wanted that

00:56:54.540 to be the primary focus

00:56:55.780 of this division

00:56:57.120 so that people

00:56:58.320 who are talking

00:56:59.420 about this,

00:57:00.500 conservative leaders

00:57:01.160 who are supporting this,

00:57:02.220 who are kind of,

00:57:02.940 kind of blindly parroting

00:57:04.140 the things that we've

00:57:05.160 kind of heard

00:57:05.820 are more familiar

00:57:07.340 with some of the things

00:57:08.640 that the king

00:57:09.300 actually believed

00:57:10.140 and the things

00:57:10.500 he actually espoused.

00:57:11.560 And this brings us

00:57:12.320 to kind of the final thing

00:57:13.300 I want to talk about

00:57:14.080 because we're coming up

00:57:15.120 on our hour here

00:57:15.880 and we have a few

00:57:17.200 super chats

00:57:17.740 we need to get to.

00:57:18.440 But the last thing

00:57:20.460 is the need

00:57:21.720 for conservatives

00:57:22.540 to kind of retcon King

00:57:25.440 as this conservative icon.

00:57:27.960 I think that says something,

00:57:29.400 right?

00:57:29.600 I saw a tweet

00:57:30.440 from Ben Shapiro yesterday

00:57:31.520 saying,

00:57:32.520 sure,

00:57:33.120 Martin Luther King

00:57:34.460 may have believed

00:57:35.400 in, you know,

00:57:36.360 affirmative action

00:57:38.720 and redistributive,

00:57:40.560 you know,

00:57:41.240 social justice,

00:57:42.480 but that's what we're not,

00:57:43.780 that's not what we're honoring

00:57:44.740 him for today,

00:57:46.060 right?

00:57:46.280 And you see people,

00:57:47.200 you see conservative leaders

00:57:48.420 actively fight

00:57:49.300 over the legacy

00:57:50.340 while we honor

00:57:51.360 the real legacy

00:57:52.020 of Martin Luther King

00:57:52.880 and the left honors

00:57:53.860 a fake legacy,

00:57:54.860 a lie.

00:57:55.820 But I think when we look

00:57:56.940 at the documentation

00:57:58.300 that we went over earlier,

00:58:00.360 specifically his own quotes,

00:58:01.740 his own writing,

00:58:02.420 his own words,

00:58:03.340 actually the left

00:58:04.060 is far closer

00:58:05.020 to honoring

00:58:06.460 the actual legacy

00:58:08.080 of Dr. King.

00:58:09.760 And so the question is,

00:58:11.400 I think for many people,

00:58:12.560 is it a legacy

00:58:13.180 worth honoring, right?

00:58:14.260 Like, is it something

00:58:15.180 that should be upheld?

00:58:17.340 Again,

00:58:17.740 I think you can,

00:58:18.900 I think you can honor

00:58:20.420 the idea

00:58:21.380 that people should be treated

00:58:23.440 by the content

00:58:24.980 of their character

00:58:25.760 rather than their color of skin

00:58:27.400 without then saying

00:58:28.940 this makes Martin Luther King Jr.

00:58:30.840 a lion

00:58:31.420 of morality

00:58:33.900 and someone

00:58:34.960 that everyone

00:58:35.760 should emulate

00:58:36.380 and that the conservative movement

00:58:37.520 should deeply invest in

00:58:39.460 as a key member

00:58:41.180 of kind of their,

00:58:42.200 their pantheon

00:58:43.220 or their legacy, right?

00:58:45.060 And so why do you think

00:58:46.920 it's been so important

00:58:48.160 for, for Republicans

00:58:49.440 and Democrats

00:58:50.160 to fight over

00:58:51.220 the legacy of King

00:58:52.100 rather than conservatives

00:58:53.360 who very clearly

00:58:54.300 had, you know,

00:58:56.020 concerns about

00:58:56.960 King's character

00:58:58.140 kind of, kind of saying,

00:59:00.860 well, we agree

00:59:01.460 with certain parts

00:59:02.300 of things he said

00:59:03.420 but that doesn't mean

00:59:04.420 that this is

00:59:05.580 who people should

00:59:06.860 model themselves after.

00:59:08.480 Right.

00:59:09.300 The most terse

00:59:10.700 and the easiest way

00:59:12.060 that I can put this

00:59:12.980 is that there is

00:59:13.640 no such thing

00:59:14.280 as a right-wing conservative

00:59:15.460 in the U.S. public sphere

00:59:16.900 right now

00:59:17.280 at least as a public intellectual

00:59:18.720 one of the major figures

00:59:20.180 like Ben Shapiro.

00:59:21.620 They're leftovers

00:59:22.380 of what we might call

00:59:23.680 sort of like

00:59:24.160 the new liberals

00:59:24.900 or the old liberal

00:59:25.780 or the, uh,

00:59:26.860 sorry,

00:59:27.800 the New Deal liberals

00:59:28.820 from the last century.

00:59:31.620 If you look at

00:59:32.620 the old conservative movement

00:59:33.760 who MLK

00:59:34.420 specifically talked against

00:59:35.740 he mentioned

00:59:36.160 Barry Goldwater

00:59:36.960 but there were also

00:59:38.220 southern populists

00:59:39.300 and, uh,

00:59:40.600 midwestern

00:59:41.220 and northern isolationists

00:59:42.580 and nationalists

00:59:43.280 as well

00:59:43.740 that sort of formed

00:59:45.100 what we might call

00:59:45.720 a conservative coalition

00:59:46.860 in the country.

00:59:48.420 Um, and these three, uh,

00:59:50.460 groups had very opposing views.

00:59:52.820 Um, the sort of

00:59:54.200 southern populists

00:59:54.980 tended to be more

00:59:55.820 internationalists

00:59:56.700 wanted more alliance

00:59:58.020 and all this other stuff.

00:59:59.300 Um, Goldwater

01:00:00.260 and his more hardline

01:00:01.320 Republicans

01:00:01.800 as they're kind of known now

01:00:03.100 uh, didn't really like that.

01:00:05.080 They focused more

01:00:05.660 on the deficit.

01:00:06.300 Is this really necessary?

01:00:08.180 And the sort of

01:00:09.060 midwestern northern

01:00:09.880 isolationists

01:00:10.700 and nationalists

01:00:11.500 uh, did exactly

01:00:12.860 what you would think

01:00:13.460 they would.

01:00:13.920 They really opposed

01:00:14.740 the populist impulse

01:00:15.800 for internationalism

01:00:17.060 but they really didn't like

01:00:18.620 you know, communism

01:00:19.600 infiltrating the country.

01:00:21.500 Um, which

01:00:22.620 what explains

01:00:23.480 uh, Senator McCarthy

01:00:24.980 coming from the north

01:00:26.060 despite being very conservative.

01:00:27.980 Uh, you know,

01:00:28.460 you already see the breakdown

01:00:29.700 of a modern historical narrative.

01:00:31.700 All of this to say

01:00:32.900 MLK attacked

01:00:34.240 each and every one

01:00:35.120 of those, uh, uh, factions

01:00:37.240 that would later be marginalized

01:00:38.840 as the 20th century went on.

01:00:41.180 As the newer right

01:00:42.660 as the new conservative movement

01:00:44.440 continued to betray them

01:00:46.180 and continued to

01:00:47.260 basically sideline them.

01:00:49.080 And then what you're left

01:00:50.080 with today

01:00:50.720 is, um, you know

01:00:52.420 the left wing

01:00:53.800 of the Democratic Party

01:00:55.040 which was already

01:00:56.080 well into play

01:00:56.800 by the 1960s

01:00:58.080 and you're left

01:00:59.480 with the moderate

01:01:00.140 to left wing

01:01:00.780 of the Republican Party

01:01:01.880 because Barry Goldwater

01:01:03.260 was unfashionable

01:01:04.240 um, the sort of

01:01:05.680 uh, isolationist

01:01:06.680 nationalist types

01:01:07.620 uh, were

01:01:08.380 too backwards

01:01:09.520 and pig-headed

01:01:10.240 to lead a national movement.

01:01:11.840 We get really

01:01:12.640 respectable people

01:01:13.640 uh, like, uh

01:01:15.180 Mitt Romney

01:01:15.880 or Ben Shapiro

01:01:16.600 or whatnot else

01:01:17.300 who say that

01:01:17.880 they really don't

01:01:18.560 like each other

01:01:19.120 they have very different views

01:01:20.360 uh, but ultimately

01:01:21.600 they need to be

01:01:22.780 fashionable and respectable.

01:01:24.260 So they only agree

01:01:25.260 with the revolution

01:01:26.060 halfway

01:01:26.720 instead of all the way.

01:01:28.480 Uh, you know

01:01:28.980 the evil left over there

01:01:30.180 wants to take you

01:01:31.180 basically to the Soviet Union

01:01:32.560 the modern GOP

01:01:34.080 and the conservative movement

01:01:35.240 wants to take you

01:01:35.980 halfway to the Soviet Union

01:01:37.560 it would be an analogy.

01:01:39.060 So, um

01:01:39.900 all of this to say

01:01:41.440 it's about optics

01:01:43.380 to the conservative movement

01:01:44.700 it's about how they look

01:01:45.620 um, they'll lose

01:01:47.020 their very precious

01:01:47.960 editorial titles

01:01:49.180 they'll lose

01:01:50.060 their public positions

01:01:51.620 their airtime

01:01:52.440 if they go against

01:01:54.180 narratives like MLK.

01:01:55.920 You can't be

01:01:56.660 a real conservative

01:01:57.780 and stay within

01:01:59.540 sort of like

01:02:00.100 the higher levels

01:02:00.860 of media

01:02:01.320 at this point in time.

01:02:02.980 Uh, you will get

01:02:03.740 attacked and marginalized

01:02:04.600 and sidelined

01:02:05.360 you might be able

01:02:06.280 to make a good

01:02:06.920 name for yourself

01:02:07.900 you won't lose

01:02:08.660 necessarily

01:02:09.200 but you're not going

01:02:10.220 to be hanging around

01:02:11.000 in the same circles

01:02:11.880 as the GOP

01:02:12.980 as the modern conservatives

01:02:14.660 and that

01:02:15.500 that's just because

01:02:16.380 they aren't

01:02:17.440 you know

01:02:17.740 they aren't conservatives

01:02:18.600 they aren't

01:02:19.220 the old GOP

01:02:20.460 um

01:02:21.260 they've completely

01:02:22.000 moved leftward

01:02:22.780 uh

01:02:23.520 that's what I would say

01:02:24.520 and I'm sure

01:02:25.220 you'd have your own

01:02:25.880 astute observations to add.

01:02:27.140 I mean I think

01:02:28.860 that's a

01:02:29.260 it's a pretty good

01:02:30.100 understanding

01:02:30.840 I think it's also

01:02:31.800 that

01:02:32.600 um

01:02:33.640 this issue

01:02:34.680 has become

01:02:35.320 so difficult

01:02:36.080 it's become

01:02:36.900 so much

01:02:38.340 of the overriding

01:02:39.540 controlling issue

01:02:40.720 of our time

01:02:41.620 that conservatives

01:02:43.140 have a very difficult

01:02:44.380 time

01:02:44.880 having any kind

01:02:46.340 of

01:02:46.840 uh

01:02:47.780 different

01:02:48.360 uh

01:02:49.340 providing their own

01:02:50.700 frame for the issue

01:02:51.540 they're unable

01:02:51.940 to approach the issue

01:02:52.960 in their own way

01:02:54.040 address the parts

01:02:55.020 that maybe they do

01:02:56.060 agree with

01:02:56.800 with the parts

01:02:57.560 that have been

01:02:58.440 completely distorted

01:02:59.340 and move forward

01:03:01.120 in a way

01:03:01.540 that actually makes it

01:03:02.840 provides a vision

01:03:04.800 and an understanding

01:03:05.720 of the issue

01:03:06.880 for people

01:03:07.460 uh

01:03:08.020 to kind of health

01:03:09.420 and uh

01:03:10.120 function in a healthy way

01:03:11.260 and so I think

01:03:12.320 a lot of conservatives

01:03:13.500 rather than

01:03:14.740 uh

01:03:15.480 take head on

01:03:16.440 the fact

01:03:16.980 that

01:03:17.360 this

01:03:17.960 this narrative

01:03:19.000 has

01:03:19.800 been in place

01:03:21.160 for a long time

01:03:21.940 that the ideas

01:03:22.840 of redistributive

01:03:24.120 justice

01:03:24.740 the idea

01:03:25.700 of affirmative action

01:03:26.860 the idea

01:03:27.660 of racial quotas

01:03:28.620 was at the core

01:03:29.940 of the civil rights movement

01:03:31.320 it was not

01:03:31.720 it's not something

01:03:32.420 that's been bolted on later

01:03:33.760 by infiltrators

01:03:35.520 by you know

01:03:36.220 far left marxists

01:03:37.480 after the fact

01:03:38.340 but that this stuff

01:03:39.180 was a key function

01:03:41.080 of the civil rights movement

01:03:43.160 um

01:03:43.940 and it's

01:03:44.680 it's very difficult

01:03:45.360 to go in

01:03:45.880 and

01:03:46.200 and separate

01:03:47.220 that fact

01:03:48.380 from

01:03:49.160 some of the social

01:03:50.480 changes

01:03:50.840 that people might

01:03:51.540 like about

01:03:52.520 the civil rights movement

01:03:53.620 and so because of that

01:03:55.120 they simply

01:03:55.660 tell a story

01:03:56.960 where actually

01:03:57.540 martin luther king

01:03:58.440 didn't believe

01:03:59.680 any of this stuff

01:04:00.400 he was actually

01:04:01.020 a capitalist

01:04:01.660 who was colorblind

01:04:02.920 and and would have

01:04:04.020 opposed

01:04:04.540 affirmative action

01:04:05.740 and and

01:04:06.420 distributive justice

01:04:07.480 and diversity

01:04:08.420 equity

01:04:08.720 inclusion

01:04:09.200 and that's the real

01:04:11.240 legacy of king

01:04:12.000 and that's what

01:04:12.440 republicans stand for

01:04:13.800 rather than saying

01:04:15.060 actually

01:04:15.500 no this

01:04:16.500 this is what he stood for

01:04:17.840 and while we might agree

01:04:19.100 with a line

01:04:19.600 from one of his speeches

01:04:20.400 and we think that it is

01:04:21.460 really important as a

01:04:22.320 principle for how you

01:04:23.700 treat individuals

01:04:24.740 that does not mean

01:04:26.560 that unfortunately

01:04:27.440 the narrative of the left

01:04:28.460 has changed

01:04:29.200 actually it's been the

01:04:30.040 same narrative

01:04:30.560 for many many many

01:04:31.820 decades

01:04:32.280 and acknowledging that

01:04:34.420 is far more difficult

01:04:35.640 i think for people

01:04:36.780 uh

01:04:37.600 which is

01:04:38.120 is why it's

01:04:38.940 it's better to just

01:04:39.740 lionize king

01:04:40.480 and fight over

01:04:41.140 the his true legacy

01:04:42.560 rather than

01:04:43.380 than take those issues

01:04:44.360 head on

01:04:44.800 uh

01:04:45.520 but that said

01:04:46.020 we've got a few

01:04:46.780 uh

01:04:47.440 uh

01:04:48.100 super chats

01:04:49.340 to pivot to here

01:04:50.500 so before we do that

01:04:51.600 ryan

01:04:51.920 what are you doing

01:04:53.300 uh

01:04:53.780 where can people find

01:04:54.980 the videos

01:04:55.760 and essays

01:04:56.400 and that you're writing

01:04:57.460 and all that stuff

01:04:58.200 if they've enjoyed

01:04:58.920 your work today

01:04:59.520 uh

01:05:00.300 well

01:05:00.600 uh

01:05:01.180 definitely the proudest

01:05:02.160 thing that i have

01:05:02.740 at this point in time

01:05:03.460 is i am the treasurer

01:05:04.460 at the old glory club

01:05:05.660 uh

01:05:06.340 which is a group

01:05:06.940 of like-minded

01:05:07.660 like-minded enough

01:05:09.060 americans

01:05:09.540 have gotten together

01:05:10.420 and actually made

01:05:11.800 an organization

01:05:12.460 that is supposed

01:05:13.220 to represent

01:05:13.940 uh

01:05:14.580 real american interests

01:05:15.920 um

01:05:16.780 as opposed to

01:05:17.440 something uh

01:05:18.140 you know

01:05:18.560 some political

01:05:19.240 magic that just

01:05:20.500 comes out of thin air

01:05:21.220 that supposedly

01:05:22.180 american interests

01:05:23.160 uh

01:05:23.500 you know

01:05:23.920 we're actually

01:05:24.280 fighting for

01:05:24.980 things like unity

01:05:25.820 like old american

01:05:26.920 values

01:05:27.460 uh

01:05:28.100 fighting for

01:05:28.780 americans themselves

01:05:29.700 uh

01:05:30.500 and writing

01:05:31.100 and preserving

01:05:31.840 and all this other

01:05:32.680 stuff with them

01:05:33.340 uh

01:05:33.840 that's the goal

01:05:34.360 at the very least

01:05:35.080 uh

01:05:35.320 we've started small

01:05:36.140 um

01:05:36.920 i am writing

01:05:38.120 on their sub stack

01:05:38.980 which is

01:05:39.480 old glory club

01:05:40.300 dot sub stack

01:05:41.720 dot com

01:05:42.220 if i remember

01:05:42.680 correctly

01:05:43.100 um

01:05:43.980 in fact i just

01:05:44.760 had an article

01:05:45.480 out on the

01:05:46.680 american music

01:05:47.320 tradition

01:05:47.780 which is a

01:05:48.480 wonderful thing

01:05:49.120 to read

01:05:49.520 all started

01:05:50.560 because a

01:05:51.120 european told

01:05:51.720 me that americans

01:05:52.400 have no culture

01:05:53.160 so now i'm going

01:05:54.140 to go through

01:05:54.580 each and every

01:05:55.160 american

01:05:55.600 you know

01:05:56.240 composer

01:05:56.880 in its musical

01:05:57.840 history

01:05:58.320 person by person

01:05:59.760 pointing out

01:06:00.460 that yes

01:06:00.860 we do in fact

01:06:01.620 have a very

01:06:02.260 beautiful culture

01:06:03.220 it just doesn't

01:06:04.000 get talked about

01:06:04.660 enough

01:06:04.960 um

01:06:05.640 beyond writing

01:06:06.980 i have videos

01:06:07.780 uh

01:06:08.320 on youtube

01:06:09.720 under my name

01:06:10.560 ryan turnipseed

01:06:11.480 uh

01:06:12.060 every saturday

01:06:12.820 i have a show

01:06:13.540 um

01:06:14.280 where

01:06:14.560 with or without

01:06:15.780 guests

01:06:16.180 i will go through

01:06:16.840 some topic

01:06:17.520 usually historical

01:06:18.440 but not always

01:06:19.260 um

01:06:20.100 related to this

01:06:21.220 i went through

01:06:22.040 the what the

01:06:22.680 dixiecrats

01:06:23.460 the opponents

01:06:24.180 of the civil rights

01:06:24.920 movement

01:06:25.260 had themselves

01:06:26.180 uh

01:06:26.740 said about it

01:06:27.480 uh

01:06:28.140 you know

01:06:28.380 what were their

01:06:28.820 party platform

01:06:29.620 and all this

01:06:30.120 other stuff

01:06:30.540 out of their

01:06:30.920 own mouth

01:06:31.420 um

01:06:32.280 turns out

01:06:33.120 about only uh

01:06:34.120 you know

01:06:34.340 a twelfth of what

01:06:35.040 they talked about

01:06:35.640 had anything to do

01:06:36.460 with civil rights

01:06:37.100 most of it was uh

01:06:38.280 you know talking

01:06:39.040 about lawlessness

01:06:39.880 invading the country

01:06:40.980 and cities rioting

01:06:42.260 and all this other

01:06:42.780 stuff you know

01:06:43.220 things you might

01:06:43.840 recognize from the

01:06:45.000 modern day

01:06:45.540 so um

01:06:46.800 that's just an

01:06:47.740 example uh

01:06:48.740 those places

01:06:49.240 are where you

01:06:49.600 can find me

01:06:50.000 and i have a

01:06:50.380 twitter uh

01:06:51.440 also uh

01:06:52.720 my my name

01:06:53.820 is on there

01:06:54.280 but i think

01:06:54.740 the handle is

01:06:55.240 turnip merchant

01:06:55.940 uh

01:06:56.600 so

01:06:56.900 those are the

01:06:58.320 places

01:06:58.680 excellent yeah

01:06:59.720 like i said

01:07:00.200 you gotta enjoy

01:07:00.820 ryan because

01:07:01.300 he does come

01:07:01.860 with the receipts

01:07:02.420 you don't you

01:07:02.860 don't want to

01:07:03.180 say something

01:07:03.700 offhand

01:07:04.180 he will he

01:07:04.860 will come

01:07:05.260 with all

01:07:05.620 the receipts

01:07:06.420 and you will

01:07:06.920 you will be

01:07:07.340 made to pay

01:07:07.880 all right

01:07:08.720 so glow in

01:07:09.900 the dark

01:07:10.200 here for

01:07:10.720 ten dollars

01:07:11.240 thank you

01:07:11.560 very much

01:07:11.960 sir he says

01:07:12.480 malcolm x

01:07:13.080 was more

01:07:14.220 his own

01:07:14.700 man than

01:07:15.160 mlk

01:07:15.660 it would have

01:07:16.400 probably been

01:07:16.760 better for

01:07:17.100 black communities

01:07:17.800 than mlk

01:07:18.460 i believe this

01:07:19.340 push now is

01:07:20.160 to replace mlk

01:07:21.380 with a new

01:07:22.460 civil struggle

01:07:23.560 so i know

01:07:24.420 this is something

01:07:24.920 that gets

01:07:25.860 said very

01:07:26.440 often uh

01:07:27.300 what do you

01:07:27.660 think about

01:07:27.940 this idea

01:07:28.420 that maybe

01:07:29.040 malcolm x

01:07:30.760 would have

01:07:31.680 been at least

01:07:32.740 more honest

01:07:33.360 and straightforward

01:07:33.940 about his

01:07:34.680 approach

01:07:35.340 right i

01:07:36.240 definitely

01:07:36.580 think that's

01:07:37.060 true

01:07:37.340 and that he

01:07:38.240 wasn't propped

01:07:38.940 up by national

01:07:40.060 politicians and

01:07:40.880 all this other

01:07:41.320 stuff because he

01:07:41.900 was too honest

01:07:42.620 sometimes or

01:07:43.440 too bombastic or

01:07:44.980 anything else

01:07:45.680 um now

01:07:47.080 personally i

01:07:48.800 don't like him

01:07:49.300 that much uh

01:07:50.140 because he

01:07:50.600 didn't have very

01:07:51.220 nice things to

01:07:51.800 say about white

01:07:52.340 people of which

01:07:53.060 i am one

01:07:53.720 uh so i i think

01:07:55.440 there's a false

01:07:55.960 dichotomy that

01:07:56.780 people farther to

01:07:57.840 the right can fall

01:07:58.520 in on there

01:07:59.100 uh malcolm x

01:08:00.280 had you know

01:08:00.960 he pointed out

01:08:02.040 these people so

01:08:02.840 he's good

01:08:03.340 not necessarily

01:08:04.460 just makes him

01:08:05.020 more honest than

01:08:05.700 the alternatives

01:08:06.320 which doesn't

01:08:07.380 necessarily count

01:08:07.980 for much

01:08:08.380 um now i would

01:08:10.220 say it is true

01:08:11.020 uh that if you

01:08:12.320 leave people to

01:08:13.380 their own devices

01:08:14.240 they will just

01:08:14.960 naturally fall into

01:08:15.960 their own communities

01:08:16.800 and not really

01:08:17.400 venture outside of

01:08:18.180 it too much

01:08:18.720 uh which is why

01:08:19.960 you have the

01:08:20.460 government forcing

01:08:21.120 things like busing

01:08:22.100 and integration

01:08:22.740 at bayonet point

01:08:24.080 um because people

01:08:25.260 don't just naturally

01:08:26.040 integrate um

01:08:27.440 as it turns out

01:08:28.700 uh i'm not going

01:08:30.140 to make any other

01:08:30.760 inferences from

01:08:31.400 there because

01:08:31.760 that's you know

01:08:32.700 i'm that's not

01:08:33.680 what i'm read up

01:08:34.280 on um it just

01:08:35.340 seems to me to

01:08:36.120 be easily

01:08:36.680 observable throughout

01:08:37.520 history uh that

01:08:39.160 people will

01:08:39.940 naturally separate

01:08:40.740 and they will

01:08:41.400 build strong

01:08:41.900 communities on

01:08:42.620 their own for

01:08:43.420 their own um

01:08:44.820 which makes

01:08:45.460 malcolm x's uh

01:08:46.660 sort of uh

01:08:47.540 intellectual basis

01:08:48.440 in separation

01:08:49.320 much uh more

01:08:50.920 appealing than

01:08:51.760 mlk's forced

01:08:53.260 integration mobilize

01:08:54.580 the national guard

01:08:55.440 to send people

01:08:56.160 to new schools

01:08:57.060 and all this

01:08:57.460 other stuff

01:08:58.040 well and i think

01:08:59.140 that's why people

01:08:59.680 can be shocked by

01:09:00.640 videos of people

01:09:01.500 like muhammad ali

01:09:02.340 who come out

01:09:03.420 and say this stuff

01:09:04.420 very explicitly

01:09:05.240 muhammad ali

01:09:06.380 would say

01:09:07.260 you know yeah

01:09:07.860 yeah i value

01:09:08.400 every person

01:09:09.040 but you know

01:09:10.060 the the we

01:09:10.840 should be separate

01:09:11.480 and this is

01:09:11.960 something that i

01:09:12.780 think people are

01:09:13.500 shocked to find

01:09:14.120 was a big part

01:09:14.940 of the uh

01:09:16.560 civil rights

01:09:17.060 movement that

01:09:17.640 this was it

01:09:18.220 was not always

01:09:18.940 integrationist

01:09:19.680 rhetoric that

01:09:20.600 actually there

01:09:21.540 are many people

01:09:22.280 active in the

01:09:23.020 civil rights

01:09:23.500 movement that

01:09:24.020 felt very

01:09:24.460 differently about

01:09:25.600 uh the solutions

01:09:26.660 or ways in

01:09:27.500 which the you

01:09:28.220 know people should

01:09:29.160 conduct themselves

01:09:29.920 to kind of solve

01:09:30.740 the the problems

01:09:31.640 that were apparent

01:09:32.440 at the time

01:09:33.020 uh so prince of

01:09:35.060 parma for 14

01:09:36.740 of something i'm

01:09:37.760 not sure but it

01:09:38.640 says it looks like

01:09:39.220 it's 75 cents for

01:09:40.620 real friends

01:09:41.680 south african rand

01:09:42.940 it was rand

01:09:43.920 okay uh yeah

01:09:45.180 uh even even

01:09:46.740 for relapsed

01:09:48.000 journalists yeah i

01:09:48.760 appreciate you

01:09:49.540 not holding my

01:09:51.120 status as a

01:09:52.680 previous status as

01:09:53.580 a journalist against

01:09:54.420 me i have gone

01:09:55.900 through the 12

01:09:56.420 step program i did

01:09:57.380 attempt to make

01:09:57.960 amends some say

01:09:59.220 i've fallen off

01:09:59.860 the wagon turned

01:10:00.680 in the chip uh i

01:10:01.920 hope what i'm doing

01:10:02.580 now is a little

01:10:03.260 better than average

01:10:04.140 journalism but i will

01:10:05.980 i will let you be

01:10:07.080 the judge at the end

01:10:07.880 of the day i can i

01:10:08.660 can only do my best

01:10:09.980 to make amends for

01:10:10.780 for my previous life

01:10:11.880 uh let's see glow in

01:10:13.520 the dark here again

01:10:14.420 uh thank you very

01:10:15.820 much sir talking about

01:10:16.980 malcolm x he says

01:10:17.640 reason i believe x

01:10:18.400 would have been better

01:10:19.100 than uh than mlk was

01:10:21.400 he'd be forced the

01:10:22.180 issue he could have

01:10:23.200 resolved it instead of

01:10:24.060 being subverted by

01:10:25.420 the state to adopt

01:10:26.800 crt and i think

01:10:28.080 yeah again that just

01:10:28.820 kind of goes back to

01:10:30.140 uh x malcolm x being

01:10:32.480 far more forward about

01:10:34.260 many of the things it

01:10:35.360 would not have been

01:10:36.200 uh such a circuitous

01:10:37.440 route to continuing

01:10:38.960 to push many of the

01:10:39.800 things that uh work

01:10:41.020 their way into uh kind

01:10:42.980 of our discussion

01:10:43.760 today uh let's see

01:10:46.260 uh gamer soup here

01:10:47.940 thank you very much for

01:10:49.180 your donation i've

01:10:50.140 always had the

01:10:51.160 unpopular opinion that

01:10:52.380 malcolm x was more

01:10:53.380 based than mlk there's

01:10:54.380 a reason why he's not

01:10:55.300 as mainstream as mlk

01:10:56.480 look up his old

01:10:57.800 interviews and you'll

01:10:58.820 see why so yeah again

01:11:00.340 uh we've kind of

01:11:01.740 already touched on that

01:11:02.560 one so we're not going

01:11:03.340 to go at length but we

01:11:04.800 appreciate it does seem

01:11:05.940 like a lot of people

01:11:06.740 appreciate even if they

01:11:08.260 don't agree with uh

01:11:09.680 malcolm x his uh his

01:11:11.300 honesty and his

01:11:12.100 straightforwardness with

01:11:13.320 kind of what he was

01:11:14.600 uh and really quickly

01:11:17.040 there's just one thing

01:11:18.460 there uh the the point

01:11:19.720 about being more

01:11:20.320 mainstreamed and

01:11:21.640 there is you know

01:11:22.340 this is two sides of

01:11:23.440 the same coin civil

01:11:24.240 rights more based or

01:11:25.780 less based one slightly

01:11:27.340 more mainstream than

01:11:28.260 the other um the

01:11:29.440 opposition though i

01:11:30.540 would hazard a bet

01:11:31.800 that not even a

01:11:33.040 percent of the u.s

01:11:34.000 population has read or

01:11:35.300 heard something from

01:11:36.220 the civil rights

01:11:36.920 opponents like a

01:11:38.040 speech or something

01:11:38.840 um and that's

01:11:40.760 something that i was

01:11:41.440 wanting to do also at

01:11:42.300 the old glory club is

01:11:43.200 i have an article out

01:11:44.160 about the 1957 civil

01:11:45.980 rights act you know the

01:11:46.960 one that started the

01:11:48.020 whole legislative wage

01:11:49.280 or wave rather um

01:11:51.220 you know you can if

01:11:52.820 you read into what

01:11:53.700 the opponents were

01:11:54.380 saying you'll realize

01:11:55.140 they really aren't

01:11:56.060 mainstreamed and they

01:11:57.200 make a lot of good

01:11:57.940 points and correct

01:11:59.220 predictions so just

01:12:00.580 something to keep in

01:12:01.200 mind there if you're

01:12:01.740 looking for people that

01:12:02.840 are uh you know based

01:12:04.440 and un-mainstreamed and

01:12:06.320 all the other stuff

01:12:07.160 yeah a lot of times the

01:12:09.660 the opposition might you

01:12:11.920 might get one article

01:12:13.280 you know cherry picked to

01:12:15.380 sound as horrible as

01:12:16.560 possible and of course

01:12:17.220 there were terrible

01:12:18.220 things said again this

01:12:19.240 this is not to to

01:12:20.740 downplay the fact that

01:12:21.880 there were real

01:12:22.600 problems here uh but

01:12:24.460 it's to say that there

01:12:25.680 were people who did

01:12:26.880 raise points at the

01:12:28.920 time that were not

01:12:29.740 just you know really

01:12:31.560 crass characters yeah

01:12:32.860 they didn't all hate

01:12:34.060 blacks spoiler alert

01:12:35.580 they had actual

01:12:36.420 concerns about you

01:12:37.500 know political well-being

01:12:39.260 and the society at

01:12:40.320 large right and uh

01:12:42.720 prince of parma again

01:12:43.580 thank you much for your

01:12:44.700 answer i don't know

01:12:45.520 how what that one

01:12:46.240 translates to but uh

01:12:47.700 but i appreciate it in

01:12:49.040 some cases it might be

01:12:49.880 correct somewhat to

01:12:50.900 disconnect a man's deeds

01:12:52.160 from what he said but

01:12:53.380 that is just not the

01:12:54.260 case for a pastor and

01:12:56.020 yeah again i like i just

01:12:57.760 want to state one more

01:12:58.560 time because i do think

01:12:59.700 it's important um you

01:13:01.260 know one of the things

01:13:02.060 the left does is they

01:13:03.020 just go through every

01:13:03.840 historical figure and

01:13:05.140 it's character

01:13:05.660 assassination character

01:13:06.740 assassination character

01:13:07.780 assassination right uh

01:13:09.340 thomas jefferson did

01:13:10.320 this you know uh you

01:13:11.840 know uh abraham lincoln

01:13:14.380 thought that or whatever

01:13:15.160 like there's just all

01:13:15.880 these people and

01:13:16.580 because they ever said

01:13:17.960 one thing or thought

01:13:18.980 one thing or did one

01:13:19.880 thing then they're a

01:13:21.060 terrible person you

01:13:21.880 can't ever uh you

01:13:23.980 know have have any

01:13:24.880 admiration or understanding

01:13:26.800 of their work as a

01:13:27.680 great a great leader or

01:13:29.140 person and that's again

01:13:30.760 not what we're trying to

01:13:31.640 do here that's why we

01:13:32.760 led with here are the

01:13:34.900 ideological differences

01:13:35.780 here are the explicit

01:13:36.940 things that king believed

01:13:38.740 and said and how they

01:13:39.860 differ from the way he's

01:13:40.920 portrayed in much of the

01:13:41.900 conservative movement how

01:13:43.460 they directly contradict

01:13:44.540 the things that are said

01:13:45.720 about him and then we

01:13:47.720 also talk about his

01:13:48.780 personal behavior not

01:13:49.940 again because i think

01:13:51.120 that's the key thing but

01:13:52.640 it is important to

01:13:53.680 understand that as

01:13:54.600 someone who is so

01:13:55.860 regularly held up as a

01:13:57.580 key moral figure a gold

01:13:59.280 standard for moral

01:14:00.720 behavior that actually

01:14:02.140 king led a very sordid

01:14:03.780 personal life um and

01:14:06.020 that that should inform

01:14:08.180 very at the very least

01:14:09.240 him being held up as a

01:14:10.660 moral figure of emulation

01:14:14.240 i was going to say

01:14:14.840 emulation but that would

01:14:15.820 be fire um and so i think

01:14:18.660 that is it is really

01:14:19.720 important for people to

01:14:20.880 kind of understand that

01:14:21.780 even though that is not

01:14:22.580 the main thrust of the

01:14:24.180 differences between him

01:14:25.540 and conservatives there

01:14:26.700 again you want to point

01:14:28.220 to conservatives even

01:14:29.380 pastors that have had

01:14:30.640 affairs you know you're

01:14:31.900 you're going to find a

01:14:32.680 ton of them right there's

01:14:33.840 going to be no shortage you

01:14:34.740 can do that all day but

01:14:36.300 but i do do think uh the

01:14:38.660 main point is his his

01:14:40.340 ideological doctrinal

01:14:42.280 moral differences with

01:14:45.020 conservatives yeah there

01:14:46.840 there are categorical

01:14:48.040 differences between the

01:14:49.180 two types of objections

01:14:50.220 we've raised today

01:14:51.100 exactly i think and i

01:14:52.760 think that's really

01:14:53.420 really essential we

01:14:54.780 don't just want to do

01:14:55.480 drive-bys on every

01:14:56.840 every great leader i

01:14:58.300 don't i don't think

01:14:59.000 that's the way to go

01:15:00.220 uh let's see uh

01:15:02.560 spasticus autisticus which

01:15:04.900 might be the greatest

01:15:06.080 username ever uh well

01:15:08.360 done uh good show uh

01:15:10.500 great show friends thank

01:15:12.240 you very much uh to be

01:15:13.800 honored by a man with

01:15:14.780 your moniker is uh it's

01:15:16.320 the highest praise that

01:15:17.260 one can can aspire to uh

01:15:20.340 and then let's see here

01:15:21.640 uh brad barnes for five

01:15:23.140 dollars says i think

01:15:24.540 reintroducing alternative

01:15:26.020 narratives to the civil

01:15:26.780 rights era orthodox is

01:15:28.040 very important to moving

01:15:29.620 past the current troubles

01:15:31.220 we face yeah i think

01:15:32.620 that's really key because

01:15:33.580 again i want to make a

01:15:34.880 clear it's not like there

01:15:35.680 were not problems here and

01:15:37.280 they're not the problems

01:15:38.400 that need to be resolved and

01:15:39.600 it's not that i don't think

01:15:41.360 that uh lines from king again

01:15:43.920 like the one that

01:15:44.560 conservatives love so much

01:15:46.000 that they're judging someone

01:15:47.040 by the content of the

01:15:47.840 character isn't good that is

01:15:49.680 a good line that is a good

01:15:50.960 goal and a good way to

01:15:52.400 address people but i do think

01:15:54.480 that because the civil rights

01:15:55.840 movement has been enshrined and

01:15:57.520 is basically a third rail for

01:15:59.440 american politics you can't talk

01:16:01.280 about it you can't you can't

01:16:02.400 show any other parts of it then

01:16:04.160 it's great moral success and

01:16:06.000 you can't look to anything of

01:16:07.520 its fruits means that

01:16:08.800 conservatives have very

01:16:10.080 serious problems addressing

01:16:11.120 other issues uh like you know

01:16:12.960 for instance when conservatives

01:16:14.160 are talking about

01:16:14.640 transgenderism they think

01:16:15.760 they're arguing biology

01:16:17.280 uh all credit to matt walsh you

01:16:18.960 know the the what is a woman

01:16:20.400 movie is very funny

01:16:21.600 uh but that's not the real

01:16:22.880 problem the problem is that

01:16:24.000 actually uh civil rights law like

01:16:25.920 that's actually the the that's

01:16:27.520 actually the argument you're

01:16:28.480 having and conservatives don't

01:16:29.840 even realize that they're having

01:16:30.960 that argument they think they're

01:16:32.000 having argument about biology

01:16:33.600 and so that that's a huge issue

01:16:35.360 and if you're not willing to

01:16:36.080 touch these narratives then you

01:16:37.600 can never actually have a

01:16:38.560 productive discussion on what

01:16:39.600 they're about right and our

01:16:41.200 our very astute super chatter

01:16:42.640 there is uh understood the you

01:16:44.400 know the need for a counter

01:16:45.520 narrative um and i was

01:16:47.360 actually i was uh going through

01:16:49.040 the congressional record uh for i

01:16:51.520 believe it was uh the 88th or

01:16:54.000 something it was in the 80s the

01:16:55.440 something session of congress

01:16:57.280 um and in 1964 i was trying to

01:17:00.160 look at you know what were the

01:17:02.000 debates going on

01:17:03.360 um i could go through my school

01:17:05.600 library it's a land-grant

01:17:06.800 university very large library

01:17:08.720 and find rows and rows of books

01:17:10.560 about quotes and speeches and

01:17:12.000 commentaries on the pro-civil rights

01:17:13.920 leaders and politicians and public

01:17:16.000 figures

01:17:17.040 i had to go to the congressional

01:17:18.880 record itself to find the uh the

01:17:21.520 opponents

01:17:23.200 so yeah um and if you don't know

01:17:25.040 what a congressional record looks

01:17:26.320 like um it's probably about six

01:17:28.240 point font three columns per page

01:17:31.200 they're terribly formatted you

01:17:32.480 can't control f because that

01:17:33.760 doesn't really work on scanned

01:17:35.200 documents uh the physical copy is

01:17:37.600 hasn't been opened once and it's

01:17:38.960 probably about this big

01:17:40.480 um you know that's the work i'm doing

01:17:42.800 because i do want to try to find you

01:17:44.400 know the counter narrative what were

01:17:45.760 the opponents saying have their

01:17:46.880 predictions come true

01:17:48.240 you know what what are the facts uh

01:17:50.640 you know as opposed to just what the

01:17:52.240 government and all of its different

01:17:54.000 accomplices today want us to believe

01:17:56.240 um and you know they've been entirely

01:17:58.640 buried by history which is a

01:18:00.560 yeah i guess i just have to play an

01:18:01.840 archaeologist now

01:18:03.440 you got ryan's out there with the

01:18:04.720 microfiche and the uh you know the

01:18:06.240 magnifier going pouring through it

01:18:08.240 like old school

01:18:09.280 all right guys well i really

01:18:10.720 appreciate uh everyone coming by i

01:18:12.960 think this was a very productive

01:18:14.640 stream like i said wanted to lay out

01:18:16.160 the facts

01:18:16.960 want to lay out the quotes in its own

01:18:18.560 words wanted to make the

01:18:20.080 substantive um kind of arguments and

01:18:23.040 lay those

01:18:24.080 uh ford so that we kind of had a better

01:18:26.720 understanding

01:18:27.840 um again you you don't have to abandon

01:18:30.720 a respect for treating people

01:18:34.400 properly uh well

01:18:36.560 while also recognizing that martin

01:18:39.040 luther king while he said that and was

01:18:41.520 very right about that

01:18:42.880 um had very different views than a

01:18:45.360 modern conservative was not himself a

01:18:47.360 conservative was not a member of the

01:18:48.960 conservative movement wouldn't have

01:18:50.720 supported these things and so i think

01:18:52.720 that is an important thing at the end

01:18:54.080 of the day to kind of excavate and

01:18:55.200 understand so that we have a better

01:18:56.720 understanding when we move forward

01:18:58.640 with kind of who we are and what we

01:19:00.400 want to talk about so i appreciate

01:19:02.160 everybody coming by make sure you're

01:19:03.440 checking out all of ryan's stuff it's

01:19:05.200 your first time here of course i hope

01:19:06.880 you're going to subscribe and if you

01:19:09.040 want to listen to the show remember you

01:19:11.040 can do so in podcast form you can get

01:19:13.680 it anywhere that you listen to podcasts

01:19:16.080 and if you leave a rating and review

01:19:17.600 that really helps out with that algorithm

01:19:19.360 and everything so thanks guys for coming

01:19:22.000 by and as always

01:19:24.400 i will talk to you next time

The Auron MacIntyre Show - January 17, 2023

MLK Conservative Icon？？？｜ Guest： Ryan Turnipseed ｜ 1⧸17⧸23

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