The Auron MacIntyre Show - New Mexico Gun Ban & the State of Exception ｜ 9⧸12⧸23

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00:00:30.120 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:32.000 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.880 I've got a great stream that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:38.400 So, there was some big news out of New Mexico last week.

00:00:43.800 The governor, or here recently, the governor of that state declared an emergency

00:00:50.460 to ban the carrying of guns, both concealed and open carry,

00:00:56.620 inside the largest city of that state, Albuquerque,

00:00:59.580 as well as the surrounding county there.

00:01:03.040 So, she went ahead and decided that she's just going to suspend these rights, right?

00:01:08.380 There's these, you know, there's this standard already in place about how you can carry a firearm,

00:01:14.400 why you can carry a firearm, what licenses are in place, everything that's needed, that kind of thing.

00:01:19.360 And she's just going to suspend all of that without any kind of due process. 1.00

00:01:22.780 It's just an executive fiat saying, nope, guns, we're not having them here.

00:01:28.280 She doesn't like the amount of violence there.

00:01:29.920 There were too many shootings.

00:01:30.940 And so, she says, it doesn't matter if you're a law-abiding citizen.

00:01:35.940 It doesn't matter if you are legally carrying a gun, concealed or openly.

00:01:41.420 I am banning all guns inside this city and the surrounding county to reduce gun violence there.

00:01:48.740 Now, very interestingly, very interestingly, the way she did this was by invoking a public health emergency.

00:01:58.880 That's going to be really critical as we kind of get into the nuts and bolts of this,

00:02:02.580 because what we're going to notice is she's invoking the same architecture that one might use for something like COVID.

00:02:08.700 Someone who is looking at this could very easily understand how this is an extension of the precedents

00:02:16.160 that have already been established through something like the pandemic to shut down constitutional rights,

00:02:22.640 to shut down established norms, to shut down due process,

00:02:25.520 and to go ahead and impose a political kind of theory on how things should be done

00:02:32.240 without any kind of legislative input, any kind of judicial input,

00:02:35.660 just directly pushing that through using the emergency power granted to the executive

00:02:41.400 under these kind of health concern issues, under those kind of emergencies.

00:02:48.220 Now, while that is interesting, and we will get into that,

00:02:52.140 the real meat of this podcast is not going to be whether or not that ban is constitutional.

00:02:59.500 It's not. We'll get into why.

00:03:01.260 But that's not the real issue.

00:03:03.360 The thing that really got people fired up, the thing that really got people angry on the Internet

00:03:09.100 was actually a post by Michael Knowles.

00:03:11.540 He's over at the Daily Wire. I've been on the show before.

00:03:13.500 He seems like a nice guy.

00:03:15.580 But he has, I think, a more nuanced view of government power than most conservatives

00:03:22.100 conservatives who are just like small government at all times,

00:03:25.680 constitution, defends all of my rights at all times.

00:03:28.500 And he went on to make an assertion.

00:03:32.240 I'll just read it out here.

00:03:33.480 Unpopular opinion.

00:03:34.700 Civil leaders do, in fact, have emergency authority to suspend temporarily any or many legal rights.

00:03:43.120 Now, a lot of people got angry thinking that was him endorsing the actions of the New Mexico governor.

00:03:48.960 It was not.

00:03:49.680 And we'll kind of get into why that is.

00:03:52.100 But I wrote a thread explaining the mechanism of this.

00:03:56.060 Again, I don't think that what the New Mexico governor did is okay.

00:04:00.340 I don't think it's justifiable.

00:04:01.980 I think there are a lot of issues here.

00:04:03.520 But a lot of people got very angry at first Michael Knowles and then me for pointing out

00:04:09.480 the kind of the mechanism of what is happening here.

00:04:13.060 I think Knowles is on a little shakier ground, kind of given he seemed to almost back it up in some ways.

00:04:17.800 He's like, I disagree with her in this particular instance.

00:04:20.360 But, you know, they have the authority.

00:04:22.100 My point was more whether or not they have the formal authority.

00:04:25.960 Here's how this actually works.

00:04:27.720 But that made people very angry on the Internet at me.

00:04:30.760 So what we're going to do is we're going to jump in.

00:04:33.420 I'm going to go through some of this thread.

00:04:35.600 I'm going to explain the state of exception, how this happens, why we need to understand this specific aspect of constitutional order and political power.

00:04:47.200 Because if we don't understand why this is happening, we don't really have an understanding of how we could push back against it.

00:04:54.380 You can be really angry about some of the truths contained here.

00:04:57.740 But being angry at them won't help you when it comes to actually combating this stuff.

00:05:03.020 You're just going to angrily yell into the void.

00:05:06.380 So I want to talk about how this works, why it works.

00:05:09.140 But before we do that, guys, let's go ahead and hear from today's sponsor.

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00:06:39.680 Alright guys, so like I said, I'm going to go ahead and read out some of this thread

00:06:45.020 for people who aren't familiar with my Twitter, who didn't catch it, whatever.

00:06:48.280 And then I'm going to explain, I'm going to expand on kind of the situation we're in,

00:06:52.680 why this matters.

00:06:53.760 Now before we get into this, I want to once again stress,

00:06:57.440 I do not believe that the governor of New Mexico should have done this.

00:07:02.440 I do not believe she's inside her constitutional authority.

00:07:05.160 I do think that what she did does violate the Second Amendment. 0.96

00:07:10.080 I do think that you're probably going to see this get pushed back in the courts.

00:07:14.360 Unfortunately, the courts do not always actually enforce the rights in the Constitution.

00:07:19.540 They often subvert them.

00:07:20.960 I think in this case, you will see that.

00:07:22.900 I think the Supreme Court especially is pretty good on this stuff.

00:07:25.420 We've already seen the sheriff of the county that Albuquerque is located in say he will not enforce this order

00:07:33.100 because it is unconstitutional.

00:07:35.420 Now that matters a lot.

00:07:37.100 I'm going to explain why that's a critical thing to understand when we talk about the state of exception.

00:07:42.760 However, I just want to, before we get, you know, before the outrage flows at the very beginning,

00:07:47.180 before everyone's really fired up, I want to make it clear, I'm not on the side of this woman. 1.00

00:07:53.080 I'm not on the side of this decision.

00:07:54.880 However, a lot of people got angry at Michael Knowles for kind of making this assertion.

00:07:59.760 And while I think it's a little dodgy in kind of its very short form,

00:08:03.940 I am going to make a case for while I may not agree with her actions here,

00:08:09.080 there is a truth to the mechanical nature of politics.

00:08:13.460 Again, we're not talking about some platonic idea of how politics should work or how you want it to work

00:08:19.860 or how constitutional government in, you know, the, in the abstract and a perfect world works.

00:08:25.540 I'm, I'm mostly Machiavellian guys.

00:08:28.440 That's the school of political analysis I come from.

00:08:31.480 I want to look at elite theory.

00:08:33.740 I want to look at Machiavellian understandings of this.

00:08:37.240 How does this actually work?

00:08:38.980 And why does somebody like the governor of New Mexico so often get away with this?

00:08:46.080 I don't think she's going to get away with this, but I mean, she invoked a public health ban, 0.99

00:08:50.800 which would have worked for the pandemic, right?

00:08:52.360 So maybe she won't get away with this because she's just touching something that is more sacred to people in theory,

00:08:58.040 which is their Second Amendment rights than I guess the right for them to walk out of their house. 0.78

00:09:02.860 I'm not sure why that's more sacred to people, but, but it seems like it is, but either way,

00:09:08.020 we're going to talk about why the sacredness of that belief is more important than the paper it's written on here

00:09:14.200 as we get into the state of exception.

00:09:17.220 All right.

00:09:17.600 So like I said, beginning of the thread, Michael Knowles makes the unpopular assertion that civil leaders do in fact have

00:09:24.300 the emergency authority to suspend temporarily many legal rights.

00:09:29.320 So let's get into the thread here where I explain the state of exception.

00:09:32.860 So no system of government is perfect, which means no constitution can predict every eventuality.

00:09:39.840 Exceptions will always exist.

00:09:41.660 And the rules of the system cannot, by definition, include their exceptions.

00:09:47.600 Now I'm going to be drawing heavily from the work of Carl Schmitt here.

00:09:51.700 That's going to get some people with their knickers in a twist. 1.00

00:09:54.340 I get it.

00:09:55.060 Carl Schmitt's not a nice guy.

00:09:56.400 He's right about this.

00:09:57.560 So let's just understand the truth here.

00:09:59.380 You can hate Carl Schmitt and you'll be right about that.

00:10:01.540 But we still need to understand what's happening here.

00:10:03.640 So no system of government is perfect, which means no constitution can predict every eventuality.

00:10:10.200 Exceptions will always exist.

00:10:11.640 And the rules of the system cannot, by definition, include those exceptions.

00:10:14.780 So a lot of people, especially conservatives, really like to think that the constitution is just kind of this perfect machine.

00:10:28.540 It's, it's, it's, it's carefully manufactured by the founders and it's set in motion and it's, you know, it's always balancing itself.

00:10:36.400 It's all, it's got all the right aspects.

00:10:38.020 It understands everything about kind of human nature.

00:10:41.780 And so it will always fix itself in kind of in perpetuity.

00:10:45.540 It will always apply exactly the same way all the time.

00:10:48.100 Like basically they see the constitution is just this amazing piece of political technology that kind of just solved governance forever.

00:10:56.400 But that's the wrong way to understand constitutional government.

00:11:00.960 Constitutions are really a reflection of kind of the traditions and folkways of the people.

00:11:06.460 They're, they're a formal instantiation of the beliefs of the people and the way that they would naturally govern themselves.

00:11:13.960 So the constitution does not create the country, the constitution does not create the people, the people create the constitution, the country creates the constitution.

00:11:25.600 And so because of that fact, no constitution will ever be perfect.

00:11:30.060 It will never, you know, figure out everything that's going to happen forever in human history.

00:11:36.180 Human history is not over.

00:11:37.440 It did not stop during the enlightenment and it didn't stop during 1779 and it didn't stop now.

00:11:43.960 You know, humans will change.

00:11:46.520 They will grow.

00:11:47.180 Human nature will have eternal truths about it, which is where we can draw many of our understandings of law and the way constitutions and countries should be formed.

00:11:55.320 But it will not, it does not mean that humanity will always be exactly the same.

00:11:59.580 The fate, the problems that it always faces will always be the same.

00:12:02.060 There will always be unpredicted eventualities that will always happen.

00:12:07.000 And by definition, no system can predict exceptions to that system.

00:12:12.520 Like just that's, that's what that means, right?

00:12:15.400 If you have a system and there's an exception to it, that exception has to be outside of the system.

00:12:19.660 And so that's why you have leadership roles.

00:12:22.080 Like anybody inside, you know, a bureaucracy or anything else that operates on a set of rules understands this, right?

00:12:28.800 You have, you know, a set of systems and they might be really resilient.

00:12:33.060 They might be very, very well thought out.

00:12:34.720 They might be very carefully set up and they have a flow of procedure, but inevitably something, no matter how good that system is and how often it can kind of return answers for whatever you're doing, eventually a question is going to come up that that system is not prepared for.

00:12:49.760 And in that moment, that's when you need leadership, right?

00:12:52.740 Leadership is just an eternal fact of human existence.

00:12:56.220 You will always need leaders because there will always be something new.

00:12:59.480 There will always be exceptions.

00:13:00.600 And so because of that, no system can completely predict this.

00:13:04.700 No constitution will ever completely predict what's going to happen.

00:13:09.520 So back to our thread here.

00:13:11.580 When an emergency arises, the system will enter a state of exception, a time in which some or all procedural norms are suspended.

00:13:20.500 Now, I really should have said will often or can enter a state of exception.

00:13:25.720 That doesn't always have to be the case.

00:13:27.100 The state of emergency does not always generate a state of exception.

00:13:30.320 However, it often does.

00:13:32.800 And when that happens, again, by definition, we're outside the system.

00:13:37.400 And when we're outside the system, that means that the normal rules, the normal protections will in some way fall into question.

00:13:45.740 Now, you can say, but they should never fall into question.

00:13:48.280 That can't be true.

00:13:49.240 That, you know, these things are eternal.

00:13:50.760 Okay.

00:13:51.660 I, I'm not arguing with that, but that does happen.

00:13:55.340 And it happens all the time.

00:13:56.760 And we'll talk about specific examples of when that happened in a second.

00:14:00.580 But, but saying things should happen or should be does not make them true.

00:14:06.860 It doesn't make them what we are.

00:14:08.160 They might be things we want to strive for.

00:14:09.880 We might want to avoid the state of exception as often as possible.

00:14:13.600 That's a perfectly reasonable thing to assume.

00:14:16.640 But that does not mean we do.

00:14:18.500 That does not mean that's not, does not mean that's just a truth in which humans exist.

00:14:22.860 We have to look at the reality around us.

00:14:24.820 We want to be able to solve the problems that we are facing.

00:14:27.620 Frankly, the constitutional crises that are coming quick and, you know, very often in our current scenario.

00:14:34.580 And so when we're looking at this, I want us to understand that, again, we're working with what's true and observable, not what we would like to be true or what we hope to be an eternal truth or a truth that we want to strive after, right?

00:14:48.400 Because what we're doing here is a mechanical understanding of kind of how this works.

00:14:53.700 So, some systems attempt to prepare for this eventuality by having procedures for entering the state of exception.

00:15:03.580 Ancient Rome had an office of dictator that could be assigned to solve a specific crisis with sweeping powers, but only for a limited time.

00:15:12.640 So, can a constitution prepare for everything?

00:15:17.200 No.

00:15:17.660 But can a constitution prepare in some ways for times where it won't apply?

00:15:23.320 Well, yes, it can.

00:15:24.780 In fact, you know, there are places like Rome.

00:15:29.020 There are systems like the ancient Roman system.

00:15:31.440 They had a specific office.

00:15:32.800 We think of dictator as just a tyrant, right?

00:15:34.660 Somebody who just comes in and does whatever they want, has unlimited power.

00:15:37.960 They just come in and kind of blow things up and rule with an iron fist.

00:15:41.620 But that's actually not the original meaning of the office of dictator.

00:15:46.500 So, Romans were ruled by two consuls.

00:15:49.220 They got elected every year.

00:15:50.980 And then they were ruled by a senate, right?

00:15:52.900 And a bunch of other kind of other bodies.

00:15:57.100 But we'll make it as easy as we can for the moment.

00:15:59.780 So, they had these two consuls and they had a senate.

00:16:03.060 Now, the two co-consuls were basically like kind of co-presidents or really in some ways co-king, right?

00:16:11.220 But they still had to work with the senate and they had to work with each other.

00:16:13.940 So, their power was checked in that way.

00:16:16.600 However, the Romans understood that in times of crisis, right?

00:16:20.740 When there's a war that they can't handle, when there's a famine that they can't handle,

00:16:26.540 when there's some kind of thing that requires immediate action and we don't have time for the consuls to agree with each other,

00:16:32.320 and we don't have time for the senators to agree with each other, we just need to take action,

00:16:36.560 they had a way to turn power over to a guy called the dictator.

00:16:41.040 Now, the dictator had a limited time, usually six months, in which he was in power.

00:16:46.640 And the dictator did not have unlimited power.

00:16:50.000 But he did have far more executive authority and immediate wielding of that authority than the consuls or the senate had by themselves.

00:17:00.300 And so, basically, the dictator's job was to go in and he had a specific problem.

00:17:05.040 The dictator wasn't allowed to, like, completely remake everything about Rome.

00:17:08.800 His job wasn't to go and fix every policy he didn't like about the government.

00:17:12.380 He had a very specific job, which is, I need to fix this emergency.

00:17:17.440 And then he's supposed to give up power, right?

00:17:20.060 Now, that didn't always happen.

00:17:23.080 But there's, for instance, famous stories like Cincinnatus.

00:17:26.540 Cincinnatus is one of the guys who was given the dictatorship of Rome twice, actually.

00:17:31.860 And he stepped away from it.

00:17:33.580 He's famous for stepping away from it.

00:17:35.140 Everybody wanted him to be king.

00:17:36.800 He did such a great job when he was dictator.

00:17:38.800 Everybody wanted to be king.

00:17:39.740 But he refused to be king.

00:17:42.240 And instead, he stepped away and went back to, you know, kind of his villa and his farm.

00:17:48.840 And back to, like, where he had come from.

00:17:50.900 He's famous for that reason.

00:17:52.580 That's actually one of the reasons that Cincinnati, Ohio, is named after Cincinnatus.

00:18:00.060 And it's actually an ode to George Washington, who is seen of it having done a similar thing, right?

00:18:04.580 George Washington, you know, he steps down after two presidential terms, basically could have been dictator for life, basically could have been effectively king just by a different name.

00:18:14.980 But, no, he says, it's more important for me to hand over power, create this precedent that people will follow all the way up to FDR.

00:18:25.720 And so, therefore, I will step down.

00:18:29.540 And that's kind of where that name, Cincinnatus, Cincinnati, came from.

00:18:33.580 It's an ode to him.

00:18:36.200 So, Cincinnatus is a famous dictator who steps down.

00:18:39.540 Now, again, over time, this breaks down.

00:18:41.840 Over time, the dictators do not do this.

00:18:45.140 You start getting guys like Sulla.

00:18:46.700 You start getting people like Caesar, who are named dictator for life, breaking the meaning of the office, right?

00:18:54.260 And so the tradition, the restraints on the office eventually fall away, right?

00:19:01.560 And those people start disrespecting what the purpose of the office was.

00:19:05.840 However, that's not because the law really changed.

00:19:11.360 It's because the traditions of the people fell away and they were less resistant to the idea of a dictator, right?

00:19:18.540 So it didn't really matter that the kind of the law or the regulations of Rome limited the power or the scope or the continuation of dictatorship because the people were no longer willing to enforce it because the elites of the society were no longer ready to enforce that restriction.

00:19:37.440 The ability of the dictator to use the state of exception grew and grew and grew until basically it just became de facto king, right?

00:19:46.500 Even though the Romans said they'd never have a king again, it basically became a de facto king, right?

00:19:53.120 And so, again, the constitution, the formal legality of the thing, less important than the actual way in which the people are willing to express their restrictions, put their own beliefs above kind of the power and will of their leader, right?

00:20:14.680 So that's really key here.

00:20:16.060 All right, so back to our thread.

00:20:18.360 States of exception are viewed with skepticism and with good reason.

00:20:23.800 They are rife for abuse, but they are far more common than those who believe in rule of law would like to admit.

00:20:32.300 So people are really totally justified in their concern about the state of exception.

00:20:40.160 That is a reasonable concern for you to have, right?

00:20:43.620 Even you, John Q, the talk radio conservative guy.

00:20:48.180 Like, that is a perfectly reasonable thing for you to be worried about.

00:20:53.160 However, there's something that's just true, which is that we have far more states of exception than we'd like.

00:20:59.540 We like to talk about rule of law.

00:21:01.200 We like to talk about how nobody is above a law.

00:21:03.380 But the truth is that actually we enter into a state of exception far more frequently than we're comfortable with.

00:21:11.080 And again, lying about that point to ourselves, demanding that that not be true, does not change our reality, right?

00:21:19.300 So if we, again, want to understand what's happening to us and why, we need to talk about what is real, what is true, what is observable, and what is happening.

00:21:29.320 And not the way that we think things should be.

00:21:31.380 Now, we can have the way that we think things should be inform our next steps, but they should not blind us to the realities around us that should also inform our next steps, right?

00:21:41.500 Both of these things need to be true.

00:21:43.420 All right, so back to our thread again.

00:21:46.460 Lincoln and FDR ruled in an almost constant state of exception, remaking the entire country as they went. 0.57

00:21:53.960 Both are remembered fondly despite their willingness to operate an imperial presidency.

00:21:59.500 People might say that they prefer rule of law, but history belongs to the victors.

00:22:05.720 All right, so this is just true, man.

00:22:08.480 Like, however you feel about Abraham Lincoln and FDR, right?

00:22:12.500 Like, these two people are often lionized, right?

00:22:15.560 They're heroes of the right and left, respectively, most of the time.

00:22:19.300 These are the greatest figures.

00:22:20.800 And whether you're the GOP or the Democrats and you see these people as, like, the leaders of your party, the best exemplars of your party, they're also the people who broke the Constitution in half most often.

00:22:33.840 They're the people who are most willing to have an imperial presidency to ignore your constitutional rights, to remake the country in their own vision.

00:22:41.820 And that's just true, okay?

00:22:43.940 Look at Abraham Lincoln.

00:22:45.200 Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus.

00:22:47.900 Abraham Lincoln imprisoned journalists.

00:22:50.940 Some people might feel, you know, an appreciation for that.

00:22:54.280 But either way, that's certainly something he did.

00:22:56.940 Abraham Lincoln imprisoned political opponents.

00:22:59.580 Abraham Lincoln broke up, disbanded state legislatures he didn't like, shut them down.

00:23:04.460 Like, these are things that are just true about Abraham Lincoln.

00:23:07.420 Got rid of newspapers he didn't like, right?

00:23:10.100 This is just true about Abraham Lincoln.

00:23:11.820 Okay?

00:23:12.300 That is the case.

00:23:14.380 Now, you might say, all these things were necessary.

00:23:16.660 You might be right, but all you're talking about is the state of exception, right?

00:23:20.660 You're saying, oh, well, this is civil war.

00:23:22.320 These things don't apply.

00:23:23.320 Okay, fair enough.

00:23:24.320 But all you're doing is endorsing the truth of the state of exception.

00:23:27.020 You're saying Lincoln had a justifiable right to go in and do all of those things.

00:23:34.360 And because of the scenario, you're just saying the state of exception is real and the state of exception is justifiable.

00:23:40.200 And a lot of conservatives who got very angry at me and very angry at Michael Knowles would say exactly that, right?

00:23:47.140 They'd say exactly that.

00:23:48.220 They'd say, oh, yeah, no, Lincoln is one of our best presidents.

00:23:50.760 Why?

00:23:51.100 Oh, well, he won the civil war.

00:23:52.120 How did he win the civil war?

00:23:53.240 Oh, well, he, I mean, he did a lot of things.

00:23:54.760 Did he suspend all this stuff?

00:23:56.080 Did he get rid of all these rights?

00:23:57.020 Well, yeah, but he had to.

00:23:58.740 Okay, so you're angry at Knowles and I for pointing out the state of exception, but you're still holding this, right?

00:24:06.240 They have this cognitive dissonance that kind of the tyranny of Lincoln is fine, right?

00:24:15.600 But the tyranny of the new Mexico governor is not.

00:24:19.020 They're both suspending these rights.

00:24:20.200 Now, maybe the context is key, right?

00:24:22.300 It probably is, right?

00:24:23.680 But again, that's just about the context.

00:24:26.260 That's not about the truth about what's actually being done here, right?

00:24:29.640 The truth is that in either way, either case, these people are suspending constitutional rights.

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00:25:03.780 Groceries that over-deliver.

00:25:06.020 Because they feel it's politically necessary and they want to use that ability to do something politically, right?

00:25:12.240 And that's just true.

00:25:13.480 Same thing with FDR, right?

00:25:14.700 FDR, I mean, he completely lied about his intentions in his, you know, in his platform.

00:25:21.100 You know, his acceptance speech is just insane.

00:25:25.040 His inauguration speech is just insane if you kind of read it.

00:25:28.580 You know, he did all kinds of things that are now maybe a little more frowned upon, right?

00:25:33.900 You know, he interned entire ethnic populations or large chunks of ethnic populations.

00:25:39.620 Again, just due to their skin color, right? 0.99

00:25:41.920 Or due to their ethnic background.

00:25:44.180 That one gets a little more heat than it used to because it fits into our current narrative of kind of racism and minority oppression.

00:25:52.900 So people are a little more willing to speak out about that aspect of FDR than they used to be.

00:25:59.060 However, they still love him, right?

00:26:00.240 They still hold him up as this, like, scion.

00:26:01.960 If anybody else had literally just gulagged all of the, you know, kind of Asian Americans, some of the German Americans in the United States, that would probably be a problem, right? 0.97

00:26:11.760 But it's FDR and he's kind of part of this post-World War II lionization of the United States.

00:26:17.700 So the fact that he kind of did this thing that would otherwise be, I mean, if Trump or Bush or somebody did that, that would be the worst war crime that ever happened for hundreds of years.

00:26:27.300 But now we just kind of, you know, stick it in the lower part of the history stack when we teach about FDR and World War II.

00:26:35.340 But either way, the point is, like, these guys just violated, you know, the Constitution pretty blatantly with large amount of support from the population and a large amount of praise through history.

00:26:46.760 So once again, you can say, shouldn't have done that.

00:26:50.020 All of this should have been constitutional.

00:26:51.860 All of this should have been done formally.

00:26:53.620 All of this should have gone through, you know, the different legal routes and there should have been legislation, should have been due process, there should have been court hearings.

00:27:01.880 Fine, okay?

00:27:03.140 But shoulda doesn't answer our historical question.

00:27:06.440 And it doesn't tell us about what's happening today.

00:27:08.940 So you can say all of this stuff is a violation and you're against all of it.

00:27:12.980 Great.

00:27:13.220 I'm glad you're ideologically consistent, but you still need to look at the truth that this happens and we need to understand why.

00:27:20.240 All right.

00:27:20.560 So FDR, Lincoln, you get the idea.

00:27:23.160 The truth is that even that when everything hits the fan, people prefer decisive action to careful deliberation.

00:27:31.480 We generally reason away the exception after the fact, right?

00:27:35.280 It's fine.

00:27:36.180 Lincoln gets rid of his political enemies.

00:27:37.900 He jails people without trial.

00:27:39.560 He shuts down newspapers.

00:27:40.760 He shuts down democracy.

00:27:42.520 That's fine because he saved the republic, right?

00:27:45.400 That's the – did he save the republic?

00:27:48.640 I don't know.

00:27:48.900 I'll let you decide.

00:27:49.980 But that's the argument that gets made, right?

00:27:52.060 It's like it's fine, right?

00:27:53.200 Because after the fact, he's justified in all these things.

00:27:56.000 That's just true about humanity.

00:27:58.360 We like people who act now.

00:28:00.260 We like people who make decisions.

00:28:02.480 In a moment of crisis, we prefer strong leaders who take decisive action and we kind of go back and justify the things they did afterwards.

00:28:11.620 That's just the true thing about us, right?

00:28:13.360 Lincoln, FDR, Biden had to imprison their political opponents slash inter-immigrants slash jail journalists, right? 0.79

00:28:20.120 That's just the truth.

00:28:21.660 And if you don't think that history will look back at Joe Biden imprisoning Donald Trump as favorably as it does FDR imprisoning people or Lincoln imprisoning people, a little less with FDR again because the ethnic component, the racial component has suddenly made that a less popular move.

00:28:42.120 But if you think that history will not look back on some of those actions and praise them, then you haven't paid attention to history.

00:28:50.220 If you think there's just an inevitable arrow of history, well, everyone will look back and see Joe Biden or at least Joe Biden's administration.

00:28:57.500 I don't think Joe Biden makes almost any decision.

00:28:59.480 But if you don't think that history will look back and see the imprisonment of all these people as justifiable, I think you might be not paying attention to the reality of politics.

00:29:10.320 I think you might be leaning too far on what you want to be true or what you hope to be true or what you're taught should be true as opposed to what's actually happening.

00:29:19.260 Doug Mackey is going to be in jail for 10 years for making a meme probably, right?

00:29:24.640 We just had Owen Schreier from Infowars.

00:29:28.600 He's going to jail.

00:29:30.240 Luckily, it's only for 90 days, but still he's going to jail.

00:29:33.040 60 days, I think.

00:29:34.000 90 days, 60 days.

00:29:34.580 Either way, he's sentenced to jail for standing outside of the Capitol on January 6th.

00:29:40.840 And using his free speech, right?

00:29:43.020 Maybe you don't like what he says.

00:29:44.520 Totally reasonable.

00:29:46.000 But obviously, like, this is something that would have been allowed.

00:29:50.520 I mean, the guy's basically just putting Thomas Jefferson, no matter how you feel about that.

00:29:54.400 That's kind of just the case.

00:29:55.900 And he's going to go to prison, right?

00:29:58.140 For why?

00:29:58.820 Well, because he's a political enemy of Joe Biden, right?

00:30:01.460 His free speech doesn't mean anything.

00:30:03.400 And that's just the case, right?

00:30:06.160 Maybe, maybe, eventually, something will get overturned somewhere.

00:30:09.840 But by then, he'll probably have served the time.

00:30:11.720 Either way, his life will have been destroyed by all of the court cases and legal defenses and all the money.

00:30:17.960 And that's really the thing people have to understand is the process is the punishment, right?

00:30:21.820 Trump, Giuliani, Jenna Ellis.

00:30:25.240 Like, all these people who are being put under the thumb of the regime, they're being told to sit down because, you know, they're going to have to face this legal defense.

00:30:34.360 They're going to have to pay for it.

00:30:35.560 They're going to have to go through all this.

00:30:36.860 And even if they win these cases, which is no guarantee that they will, they'll still basically have their lives and their finances destroyed.

00:30:42.860 And so you have to understand that, like, even if for a moment that, you know, the Constitution wins, if the majority of the process is still owned by your enemies, it can lose.

00:30:53.660 Look at the masterpiece cake guy, right?

00:30:55.940 He's won multiple, you know, Supreme Court cases at this point.

00:30:59.960 He's still getting harassed.

00:31:01.560 He's still being targeted by hateful people.

00:31:04.480 He's still being asked to keep making these cakes.

00:31:07.680 He's still being brought to court over it.

00:31:09.940 You know, his legal defense, all of these things, his time.

00:31:12.040 And he's still being persecuted, despite even the Supreme Court speaking on it.

00:31:15.260 Same thing when it comes to gun reform, right?

00:31:17.020 We have D.C. versus Heller.

00:31:19.240 We know that people have the right to own a gun, right?

00:31:22.100 That is solved.

00:31:23.880 There's an individual right in the Constitution to own a gun.

00:31:27.520 We have the Supreme Court case.

00:31:28.900 We have that.

00:31:29.740 We know it's true.

00:31:30.480 And guess what?

00:31:31.500 A lot of states just ignore it.

00:31:33.360 The city of New York just ignores us, right?

00:31:35.320 They just don't care, right?

00:31:36.580 And so the fact that this has actually been locked in, that we've gone through the formal process,

00:31:41.620 that we've secured the rulings and the things that should make this clear and defend these rights,

00:31:48.600 it doesn't matter.

00:31:49.720 They still get violated, right?

00:31:51.320 And that's because you don't own every piece of the process.

00:31:54.500 And unfortunately, just owning one piece of the formal process is not enough when people are

00:31:58.900 dedicated to destroying this and they don't care.

00:32:01.680 So again, we want to separate what we want to be true from what is true.

00:32:06.540 And the truth is that no matter how you feel about constitutional rights and whether or not

00:32:13.260 they can be violated in theory, in practice, they are all the time, usually with very little

00:32:19.840 consequence to the people who do it and great consequence to the people they're targeting.

00:32:23.020 And so while it's nice that the Constitution says those things, and it might be important

00:32:27.260 that the Constitution says those things, if nobody's willing to enforce them, if nobody's

00:32:31.040 willing to defend them, if the people at large don't believe in them in a way that actually

00:32:34.460 defends them, then they don't matter.

00:32:37.880 And that's tough to hear, but it's also true.

00:32:40.820 And I'm not here to lie to you.

00:32:42.800 What's the point?

00:32:43.520 There's plenty of people who are going to do that to make you feel better.

00:32:45.660 I'm not going to do that.

00:32:46.720 That's just not true.

00:32:47.760 All right.

00:32:47.960 So let's go ahead and continue with the thread.

00:32:53.180 The question is not, will these states of exception happen?

00:32:56.980 But when they will happen, how long they will take place and how far they will go.

00:33:04.160 All right.

00:33:04.400 So again, you can't predict everything that's going to happen.

00:33:07.480 States of exception will be declared.

00:33:09.200 If you don't think they're not declared, you literally just live through COVID.

00:33:13.100 So I don't really have a whole lot of patience for people who are telling me that can't happen

00:33:17.480 in the United States.

00:33:18.400 Guys, the whole reason I'm here talking to you is because of the lockdowns and the riots

00:33:22.760 that came after me.

00:33:23.500 The whole reason I started my YouTube channel, the whole reason I started my book, the whole

00:33:27.000 reason I started my Twitter was I watched what happened.

00:33:30.060 I had spent my entire life believing what I was told by conservative talk radio, what I

00:33:36.100 was told in my history class, what I was told by people around me, that the Constitution

00:33:40.640 was going to stop this stuff.

00:33:42.120 And it does not.

00:33:44.760 Okay?

00:33:45.500 It does not.

00:33:46.600 I'm sorry.

00:33:47.060 I wish it did.

00:33:47.920 I believed in it.

00:33:49.160 I believed it through and through.

00:33:50.840 And then I watched my conservative and libertarian friends come up with every reason why they

00:33:54.800 had to comply, every reason why this stuff was okay, every reason why the Constitution

00:34:00.180 wasn't for this moment.

00:34:02.140 And everyone just kind of bent the knee, you know?

00:34:05.260 And so here we are.

00:34:06.960 And so, you know, we just need to understand state of exceptions happen.

00:34:11.240 This is true.

00:34:12.400 This is where we are.

00:34:13.400 So if we know that state of exceptions happen, the question is, how long will they take place

00:34:18.900 and how far will they go?

00:34:20.840 If a state of exception occurs, if emergencies are declared and the government attempts to

00:34:25.480 suspend your rights, as Michael Knowles said that they kind of had the right to in certain

00:34:29.060 scenarios, the question is, how long can it happen and how far can they go?

00:34:35.000 And this is the real question.

00:34:36.480 This is where me and Knowles might part ways, because I'm not really supporting kind of

00:34:41.620 the power wielded by the next New Mexico governor.

00:34:44.940 But again, I'm trying to explain how it happened and why it happens.

00:34:48.200 So let's go ahead and jump in here.

00:34:50.940 So Carl Schmitt famously said, the sovereign is he who decides on the exception.

00:34:56.940 If you want to understand who's really in charge of a system, look at the person who

00:35:00.160 can decide when the rules of that system are suspended.

00:35:04.300 Okay.

00:35:05.020 So we have a system.

00:35:08.060 We're supposed to have popular sovereignty, right?

00:35:10.480 The people are in charge.

00:35:12.520 Kind of an oxymoron.

00:35:13.660 Um, uh, it's like sovereign citizen.

00:35:16.300 You can't be both sovereign and subject, uh, and you can't have the, a populace that

00:35:21.280 completely governs itself.

00:35:22.280 That's just not how government works.

00:35:23.980 However, this is the idea, right?

00:35:26.120 That we have popular sovereignty.

00:35:27.340 However, that really means that what we have is a constitution that's supposed to be sovereign,

00:35:33.280 but who decides how that constitution gets applied?

00:35:36.080 Ah, there's the rub, right?

00:35:38.320 That's where the rubber actually meets the road.

00:35:40.560 Yeah.

00:35:41.000 In theory, the constitution just operates, um, kind of at the top, uh, and everyone kind

00:35:47.180 of kneels to it.

00:35:47.820 But the truth is that actually the constitution has to be applied to real people in real time.

00:35:52.900 Okay.

00:35:53.780 And because it has to be applied to real people in real time, it is interpreted.

00:35:58.080 A lot of originalists are not going to like that point, but it's true.

00:36:01.440 All constitutions are living constitution.

00:36:04.560 I'll say that again.

00:36:05.700 So everyone can be mad at me.

00:36:07.100 All constitutions are living constitution.

00:36:13.280 Yes, I agree that it is more important most of the time to adhere to the words on the paper,

00:36:19.060 as opposed to how you currently feel about any given scenario.

00:36:23.520 But the reality is that all constitutional law is interpreted, that all, uh, all law has

00:36:31.140 to flow through norms and customs and the reality of the time in which they are applied.

00:36:36.320 A lot of people are going to say, oh, that sounds postmodern, man.

00:36:38.560 That sounds relative.

00:36:39.300 It's okay.

00:36:40.140 But here we are.

00:36:41.040 So let's take a look at this.

00:36:42.460 Right.

00:36:42.880 And in that scenario, if the, if the, uh, constitution can be suspended, the question is who can suspend

00:36:52.580 it, right?

00:36:53.400 Who has the power to decide when we are in the state of exception?

00:36:58.880 So if you want to understand who's really in power, it's not the people, sorry.

00:37:03.960 It's not even necessarily Congress or the people that are elected.

00:37:07.740 It's the, it's the person or the groups that can decide the state of exception.

00:37:13.540 They can decide when the constitution stops working, when those rights are suspended and

00:37:20.260 when something else is the new standard.

00:37:22.680 Now you may not like that that happens.

00:37:25.400 I don't like that that happened.

00:37:26.420 I certainly don't like that it happened here in New Mexico or during the pandemic, but it

00:37:29.980 did happen.

00:37:30.820 So here we are.

00:37:32.020 We need to talk about why, right?

00:37:35.080 So here's the one that got everybody angry.

00:37:37.180 Here's, here's the one that really got the people fired up.

00:37:40.280 Can rights be suspended in a state of exception?

00:37:43.160 Of course.

00:37:44.580 I don't say this as an endorsement of the power.

00:37:47.640 I don't say this as an approval of the power.

00:37:50.540 I don't say this as the way I wish the world was, or the way I think that system should

00:37:57.240 work.

00:37:57.620 I say this as somebody who can simply observe the world around me.

00:38:01.220 And if the question is, can rights be suspended in an emergency under the state of exception?

00:38:07.320 The obvious answer is yes, it happens all the time.

00:38:11.020 You just live through two years plus of it.

00:38:14.340 So it's not a question of if it happens.

00:38:16.480 It's not a question of can it happens.

00:38:18.460 It's a question of it will happen.

00:38:21.040 Why?

00:38:21.980 Right?

00:38:22.700 So a lot of people angry about that.

00:38:25.280 They're like, oh, you don't, you don't understand about natural rights.

00:38:27.880 You don't understand about God-given rights.

00:38:29.480 You don't understand about John Locke and Thomas Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence.

00:38:33.920 Yeah, I understand all that, guys, but I also have eyeballs and ears.

00:38:38.100 So I see the world around me, and I see that these things are not being defended.

00:38:42.480 They are being suspended.

00:38:43.940 So let's talk about why.

00:38:46.340 Rights aren't magic, and they don't exist on a piece of paper.

00:38:51.060 Constitution has never defended any of your rights.

00:38:54.180 Sorry, the Constitution has never defended any of your rights.

00:39:00.340 They are a reflection of the traditions and folkways that a people hold sacred.

00:39:05.800 Okay, here's the key phrase that a lot of people didn't pay attention to.

00:39:10.020 They just saw the first part of this sentence, and they didn't see the second part, and they

00:39:13.600 thought that was the end of it, right?

00:39:15.240 So, rights aren't magic.

00:39:16.740 They don't exist on a piece of paper.

00:39:17.900 Does that mean I'm saying rights don't exist, or does that mean that I'm saying rights can't

00:39:21.140 be defended?

00:39:21.440 No, what I am saying is that they can only be protected by a people who hold those rights

00:39:30.580 sacred.

00:39:31.680 As my buddy Steve Day says, we are not a nation of laws, and we never will be.

00:39:36.760 We are always a nation of political will, and we always will be, okay?

00:39:41.520 I'm sorry, but the thing that protects your rights is not the Constitution.

00:39:45.620 It's not the Bill of Rights.

00:39:46.560 It's not the formal letter of the law written down on pieces of paper.

00:39:50.140 What protects your rights is the tradition and the community that exercises it.

00:39:56.900 If the people around you believe in rights, they will be protected.

00:40:02.180 And if the people around you don't believe in rights, they won't be protected.

00:40:06.640 They have to hold these things sacred.

00:40:08.640 Again, a lot of people got angry.

00:40:09.740 They're like, you don't believe that rights come from God?

00:40:11.360 I didn't say that.

00:40:12.180 What I said was they'll only be protected if they are held sacred, which means they probably

00:40:17.920 need to be treated like they came from God, right?

00:40:22.440 That's just the case, okay?

00:40:24.820 So we need to understand that this is going to be our situation.

00:40:30.180 Either you hold this sacred or you don't.

00:40:32.240 And if your community does hold this sacred, then they agree to certain things.

00:40:35.780 And if they don't hold this sacred, then they don't.

00:40:38.040 And if you think I'm wrong about this, if you think it's the letter of law of the Constitution

00:40:42.020 that actually protects things and not what the beliefs of the people that are held sacred,

00:40:46.920 let me just give you a basic example, right?

00:40:50.600 The Declaration of Independence, written by Thomas Jefferson, mainly other people, but

00:40:56.820 Thomas Jefferson is widely credited.

00:40:58.660 It's basically just ripping off a bunch of John Locke, right?

00:41:04.160 This is just a bunch of John Locke.

00:41:06.540 And John Locke is one of these guys that comes up with all of these natural rights, right?

00:41:10.780 Life, liberty, and property got changed to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

00:41:14.800 However, that's what we derive a lot of our freedoms from, right?

00:41:19.180 Our Bill of Rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of press, all those nice

00:41:23.600 things, the five freedoms in the First Amendment and everything that follows.

00:41:26.720 We get this from the ideas of John Locke.

00:41:29.440 Well, guess what John Locke believed about speech?

00:41:32.440 He believed you should ban atheists from your community.

00:41:36.340 He didn't think they should hold power.

00:41:38.100 He didn't think they should hold influence, right?

00:41:40.240 So John Locke, the foundation of English liberalism, the classical liberal scion, the touch point

00:41:47.900 for freedoms, he didn't believe that atheists should hold sway over your society because

00:41:54.380 he can't trust them, right?

00:41:55.220 They don't know.

00:41:56.380 They can't swear oaths, right?

00:41:57.960 That was like a big thing for him.

00:41:59.280 How can you trust a guy who can't swear oaths, right? 0.69

00:42:01.780 And so this is his understanding of freedom of speech.

00:42:08.640 That's what he thought about freedom of speech.

00:42:12.800 So when we look at our understanding of that, it doesn't even jive with the people who founded

00:42:19.300 the country, probably, who believe in a lot of this stuff, right?

00:42:23.340 Now, in many ways, this means this is based on the fact that like norms change.

00:42:27.240 So for instance, you probably didn't need a law against like atheists or blasphemy, you 0.97

00:42:33.980 know, in kind of the early United States, because like everyone already agreed on that.

00:42:39.360 You already had a general understanding of kind of this Protestant Christianity and that

00:42:43.100 informed the worldview.

00:42:44.020 And the vast majority of people just would not have done that anyway, right?

00:42:48.040 However, we can't just take our modern conceptions and especially our secular conceptions of liberty

00:42:55.000 and liberalism, which is basically just do whatever you want.

00:42:58.120 You have no duty and you have no bonds.

00:42:59.800 We can't take that and superimpose it onto the fountain because that's not what they

00:43:03.840 believe, right?

00:43:05.540 John Adams said the Constitution is good for moral religious people and it can't govern

00:43:10.900 anybody else.

00:43:12.220 Well, what if you aren't a moral and religious people?

00:43:14.840 How does the Constitution work then?

00:43:16.920 We don't want to ask that question, right?

00:43:18.320 Because that has a much wider implication that we don't want to talk about.

00:43:24.200 So we love the founding fathers, but we just ignore a lot of the things they say, right?

00:43:28.100 We love to talk about the founding fathers and what they believe.

00:43:31.860 Well, we sure do ignore a lot of it so that we can comply with current modern secular standards

00:43:37.520 and understandings of liberty.

00:43:40.060 And so a lot of people like to play that shell game where they say they're conservatives who

00:43:44.180 love the founding fathers, but they don't want to look too hard on anything the founding

00:43:48.120 fathers actually said and believed and the people that informed their beliefs.

00:43:53.160 Because then we might understand that maybe those in 1776 were not looking at liberalism

00:44:01.140 or liberty the same way that we look at it in 2023.

00:44:05.740 So back to our thread here.

00:44:09.380 If those values are held tightly, then the government will only be able to suspend them for the shortest

00:44:14.220 of time and in the most dire of situations.

00:44:17.240 If they are held loosely, they can be violated regularly and with the thinnest pretense.

00:44:22.380 Again, people got mad at this because they thought I was saying it's fine to do that.

00:44:26.200 That's not what I was saying.

00:44:27.160 I was explaining the mechanism by which they get violated.

00:44:30.220 So what's a modern day example?

00:44:32.780 What's a hard and fast example we can reach for right now about how this dynamic works?

00:44:38.320 Again, let's look at the pandemic versus this gun control thing, right?

00:44:42.980 People did not hold their individual biological autonomy, their physical autonomy sacred.

00:44:50.800 They had been put in a place where they didn't think it was sacred.

00:44:53.880 And so they were fine with being told that they had to wear these masks, that they had

00:44:58.660 to do all this stuff, that they had to be six feet apart from each other, that they had

00:45:02.860 to shut down their businesses, that they had to shut down their churches, not their strip

00:45:07.180 clubs or their abortion clinics, but specifically the things that the political enemies of the regime

00:45:12.480 like, you had to shut down all of these things because of the pandemic, right?

00:45:18.480 Those were the things and people complied.

00:45:20.860 Not everybody, you know, I'm very lucky.

00:45:22.940 I live in the free state of Florida.

00:45:24.760 Whatever you feel about Ron DeSantis' presidential run, he has my eternal gratitude and a good

00:45:29.840 bit of my loyalty, specifically because he spared me and my family and my community from living

00:45:35.420 through the hellacious kind of time that many people had during the pandemic.

00:45:39.780 So it wasn't everywhere and people did stand up.

00:45:42.160 But in general, Americans just weren't particularly interested in their rights.

00:45:47.680 They weren't particularly interested in standing up against this stuff.

00:45:50.560 And we can tell because the vast majority of the country complied with this stuff, right?

00:45:55.640 And we already see the efforts to do this again.

00:45:58.460 We already see the efforts of these, you know, especially educational institutions and other

00:46:03.480 leftist vanguard institutions to start re-implementing many of these lockdown procedures for whatever

00:46:08.680 new strain or pandemic or whatever is supposed to be coming around the corner.

00:46:12.740 So we already see this, right?

00:46:14.480 So we know that using a public health emergency to suspend these rights works because people 1.00

00:46:20.200 don't really care that much about them.

00:46:22.140 Whether you like that fact or not, most people are just fine with the government shutting down

00:46:26.040 their church.

00:46:27.820 That's tough, right?

00:46:29.820 That's a tough truth.

00:46:30.980 But it's true.

00:46:32.120 And that's the reason the government got away with it for a lot of different places.

00:46:37.220 Now, let's look at the example of New Mexico, right?

00:46:40.920 The governor says, I'm shutting down gun rights due to something I don't like.

00:46:46.740 And I'm going to use this public health emergency.

00:46:48.700 Again, very similar mechanism.

00:46:51.120 You know, executive power being exercised without legislative oversight, without judicial

00:46:55.560 review, forcing an immediate shutdown of a constitutional right.

00:47:00.020 But this situation looks different.

00:47:03.320 It looks like the people are disagreeing.

00:47:05.100 It looks like the sheriff refuses to implement this.

00:47:09.040 Why?

00:47:09.680 Well, people care more about their gun rights, man.

00:47:12.240 That's just true.

00:47:13.460 People are more willing to fight over this than they are all their other rights.

00:47:17.280 Now, my question would be, what good are these rights if, you know, you're going to comply

00:47:22.620 with all this other stuff?

00:47:23.580 Like the whole point of the second amendment is to protect all the other amendments.

00:47:26.460 If you concede every other amendment, then what good is the second amendment?

00:47:32.300 And there's probably a really uncomfortable conversation for conservatives in the right

00:47:36.540 to have over like the safety blanket of the second amendment.

00:47:40.600 How, you know, saying as long as I'm holding on to my guns, as long as I can carry my gun,

00:47:45.240 then it doesn't matter what else the government can do to me because I always have this last

00:47:48.520 line of defense.

00:47:49.260 Might have kept the, you know, the American right from actually standing up against tyranny.

00:47:54.800 But either way, I would prefer to be able to defend my home and my family with a firearm

00:47:59.880 and myself than not.

00:48:01.760 And so I, you know, I'm on board with a sheriff that says, nope, I don't care about your public

00:48:05.480 health order.

00:48:06.120 I don't care about this stuff.

00:48:07.800 I'm going to stand back.

00:48:08.800 But to be really clear, like all these anti-gun groups or all these pro-gun groups, all these

00:48:13.560 gun rights groups, uh, the sheriff, they all sprang into action immediately, said no, filed

00:48:17.500 lawsuits, injunctions, all this stuff happened immediately.

00:48:21.120 So am I saying that the government has the right or whatever to suspend constitutional rights?

00:48:28.500 That's not what I'm saying.

00:48:29.880 What I'm saying is the government has the ability and not only does it have the ability

00:48:34.380 and the mechanism, it will exercise it.

00:48:36.740 And you cannot avoid this.

00:48:38.960 So if you can't avoid this, what actually protects rights?

00:48:43.820 What actually protects them?

00:48:45.220 What actually holds us in check?

00:48:46.860 Now, to be clear, we have a much longer conversation and one that might be unpopular and more sticky

00:48:52.660 when it comes to whether we actually have rights.

00:48:55.700 Rights are more of a construction of the enlightenment.

00:48:58.520 People who say that rights come from God, you know, okay, but you have how much, you know,

00:49:04.180 feel free to find them in the Bible for me.

00:49:05.860 Um, some of them are natural rights.

00:49:07.860 Some of them are certain amount of, uh, emergent, uh, natural rights that come from, uh, competing, uh, authority structures in the Bible.

00:49:16.660 But again, it's not the paper that they're written on that actually imposes those natural, uh, restrictions on the government.

00:49:23.180 Um, it's the people's willingness to push back on.

00:49:27.480 And so again, you can call those things rights.

00:49:29.740 You cannot call them rights.

00:49:31.380 Larger debate.

00:49:32.180 The point is there are places government shouldn't go.

00:49:35.280 I agree with that.

00:49:36.180 But the question is what actually restricts it.

00:49:39.020 And it's not pieces of paper and it's not saying out loud, God given rights.

00:49:44.540 I have these rights.

00:49:45.280 You can't do this to me.

00:49:47.080 It's the actual beliefs of the people and their willingness to fight back.

00:49:49.880 So in the case of New Mexico and this gun, uh, or not confiscation, but gun ban, uh, in public, people are willing to fight back.

00:49:57.720 And when it came to the pandemic, most people just weren't.

00:49:59.700 Um, and you know, the, the places that they did fight back, their rights are preserved and the places they didn't fight back, they weren't right.

00:50:05.880 And that's how the state of exception works.

00:50:09.540 Um, our regime now governs in a near constant state of exception using almost any excuse to circumvent the, the formal procedures and protections of the constitution.

00:50:21.480 Again, this is not something I like to be true.

00:50:24.300 This is not something I want to be true, but it is just is true.

00:50:27.140 As we can tell, uh, you know, the government used, uh, you know, these, the pandemic restriction or the pandemic excuse and the state of exception to invoke this stuff.

00:50:37.040 They're trying it again here in New Mexico with this gun ban.

00:50:40.260 They'll try it with global warming.

00:50:41.820 They're going to try it with all kinds of stuff that they do with civil rights stuff that works real well.

00:50:45.920 Even the right loves to just fold constitutional rights like a table when it comes to civil rights law.

00:50:51.400 If you tell, uh, the right that something is a civil right, uh, they, they will burn constitutional rights, uh,

00:50:56.860 to the ground, uh, even, even people who are, uh, uh, uh, kind of the most active and vocal on the right will pretty much, uh, concede immediately if you invoke that one.

00:51:05.880 But either way, the point is that our government is always existing in the state of exception at this point, which is why it feels less and less like we're actually governed by the rule of law and the constitution.

00:51:16.640 Code would be the easy example, but we can see how the system is looking to bring back emergency powers for almost any reason.

00:51:22.340 New strains of the pandemic, climate change, civil rights, war on terror, big one, obviously with 9-11 yesterday, domestic extremism, threats to democracy.

00:51:29.860 You notice they're saying that all the time, right?

00:51:31.580 Now, threats to democracy.

00:51:33.220 If you don't think you're not going to get states of exception due to the threats of democracy, well, great, because that's already happened.

00:51:38.460 Again, the political opposition of, uh, you know, the, the, the head of political opposition in the biggest party, uh, in the United States, uh, is, is already been indicted multiple times, uh, through, purely for political reasons to shut down their ability to run against the current regime.

00:51:55.440 But we have people in jail for making memes.

00:51:57.220 We have people in jail for using their free, outspot free speech outside the Capitol.

00:52:01.120 Uh, that's just the truth.

00:52:02.740 Uh, we are in a scenario, uh, where they just use this phrase, threats to democracy, and then they just invoke the state of exception and they do whatever they want.

00:52:10.520 And, uh, you know, again, terrible, but true.

00:52:13.960 Any excuse to enter the state of exception and wield emergency powers, because to be frank, Americans don't really care about their rights very much and will allow the government to violate them for almost any reason.

00:52:25.240 Uh, the reason, the question is not, will my government attempt to enter a state of exception during an emergency?

00:52:30.460 They will, and there can be justified reasons for doing so.

00:52:35.040 So people might not like that one a little bit, but there are certain, uh, there are certain rights that might need to be, uh, you know, suspended for a certain amount of time, right?

00:52:43.460 There are just certain things that are happening that you might have to step in, right?

00:52:48.980 So if there's a fire in the area, it's going to burn down everything and you've got to create a fire break.

00:52:53.500 The only way to create a central fire break is to knock over somebody's house.

00:52:58.840 That's a violation of their property rights, right?

00:53:01.020 But if you don't do that, thousands and thousands of other houses, uh, will be burned down.

00:53:06.080 Uh, thousands of lives could be lost, property damage, everything else.

00:53:09.000 Now, hopefully, you know, you've got, uh, you know, you've got, uh, these, uh, you know, you've got the fifth amendment.

00:53:14.660 Uh, you know, you can invoke, uh, the right of, uh, why I'm having a hard time remembering the thing where the government seizes your property.

00:53:23.000 Anyway, uh, someone will remind me in the chat in a moment, uh, but in imminent domain, uh, yes.

00:53:28.240 Okay.

00:53:28.460 I remembered.

00:53:29.240 Uh, but, uh, the, the truth is like, there will be moments where the government just has an extreme thing and they do take action.

00:53:35.980 Right.

00:53:36.460 Hopefully there's something that, you know, uh, gives you a reimbursement for that, but at the end of the day, they will take that action.

00:53:43.200 Now that doesn't mean that the government always has that option.

00:53:45.720 There are things that government should just never do period.

00:53:48.240 Right.

00:53:49.040 But the point is that not every one of these things is always going to be a hundred percent all the time.

00:53:55.220 And again, we might not like that truth, but it is true.

00:53:57.960 Um, many of those carve outs are in the constitution specifically.

00:54:01.520 So that's just something you should probably read.

00:54:04.440 Uh, the real question is how resilient are the beliefs of the people?

00:54:08.160 How deeply do they hold their values?

00:54:10.460 And are they, uh, ruled by leaders that, uh, share the same culture, history, and moral vision?

00:54:17.780 So here's the thing, guys, people who have the same experiences as you speak the same language, as you grew up in the same places, as you share the same religion, as you have the same history, as you watch the same TV programs, read the same books.

00:54:31.160 They are more likely to have continuity of tradition.

00:54:35.620 They are more likely to stand up for certain things that your culture holds valuable.

00:54:41.800 So if you have a culture full of people who share those values and share them very tightly, you are far more likely to push back against the state of exception.

00:54:51.680 State of exception is far more likely to be limited than it is when those things don't happen.

00:54:56.820 Let's go back to the dictator, right?

00:54:58.220 When was the dictator controlled?

00:55:01.280 Rome had an office of dictator.

00:55:02.680 When was the office of dictator under tight controls?

00:55:05.380 When the people believe in it.

00:55:08.220 When there's a strong history, strong belief of the people and the ruling class about how that office should be used.

00:55:15.860 Even in a moment where the people asked Cincinnati, they're remembering of this history, they're remembering of the standard lapse, and they asked Cincinnati to become king.

00:55:26.460 He turned them down because he still believed in that principle and that renewed their faith in the principle, right?

00:55:32.080 So that reciprocal relationship between the ruler and the ruled sharing the same principle of governance and how the state of exception should be used held it in check.

00:55:40.720 When did the state of exception become more powerful?

00:55:44.280 When did the dictatorship become more powerful in Rome?

00:55:46.340 As the society expanded, as it became an empire, as more and more people who were not interested in the traditions of Rome, who had not had a long history of Rome, who were not part of the founding of Rome, who did not have any family ties to the traditions and religions of Rome, started becoming large parts and influential parts of the community.

00:56:04.580 And when that became the case, dictators gained power, dictators were able to expand the power they had, the length they could hold it until they just basically became, you know, Augustus basically assembles the principate and he's an emperor, a king and all but name.

00:56:19.420 They call him first citizen, but he's the king, right?

00:56:22.840 And so it's about your society's willingness to push back against those things.

00:56:28.180 That's what actually creates that resistance, just like in New Mexico with the sheriff saying no.

00:56:34.580 And all these gun rights, you know, people immediately filing lawsuits.

00:56:39.460 That is the kind of action that pushes back against the state of exception.

00:56:43.340 But if you don't have that, if you have lost that, if you don't have that will and that continuity of moral vision, then nothing will stand against it.

00:56:52.480 And finally, emergencies will always occur, exceptions will always arise, and someone will always hold power to suspend norms.

00:57:00.480 Question is, are they bound by something far more powerful than the rule of law, a sacred duty to their people and the well-being of the nation?

00:57:09.520 The question is, do you have a Cincinnati?

00:57:11.880 That's the real question.

00:57:15.100 Do you have a Cincinnati?

00:57:16.480 When the moment comes and the people say, we don't care about our norms anymore.

00:57:20.820 We don't care about our history anymore.

00:57:22.400 We don't care about our values anymore.

00:57:24.700 We are willing to have power over you to you because we think you're capable and we think you're fair.

00:57:30.160 And we think that living under you would be better than our current system.

00:57:33.560 You can save us from these barbarian hordes, these invading armies. 1.00

00:57:36.880 We're going to give power to you.

00:57:38.180 And the question is, do you have a Cincinnati that says, no?

00:57:42.600 Do you have a Cincinnati who says, take this power, take it away from me because I don't want it.

00:57:49.260 I don't care if the people have decided to walk away from the values.

00:57:52.100 I'm not walking away from those values, right?

00:57:54.920 If you have that, then the state of exception is controlled.

00:57:59.120 If you don't have that, state of exception expands.

00:58:02.540 Again, we might not like that.

00:58:04.340 We may not like that truth.

00:58:05.680 We may not say that's not how it should work.

00:58:08.520 You know, people should just say, I have these God-given rights, end of story, boom, done.

00:58:12.160 Everybody follows the rule.

00:58:13.740 Nice.

00:58:14.760 I would like that too.

00:58:16.440 But that's not how power actually works.

00:58:19.580 That's not how politics really works.

00:58:20.940 That's not how constitutions really work.

00:58:22.500 So if we care about protecting our liberties, if we care about predicting or protecting our traditions, protecting our moral vision, we have to start understanding that this is the truth about how constitutions.

00:58:38.340 Until we understand that, conservatives are just going to sit around pointing and sputtering, going, you can't do that.

00:58:44.980 The Constitution.

00:58:46.880 But we'll never actually be able to defend their rights.

00:58:51.260 All right, guys.

00:58:52.180 So there's a bunch of Super Chats here. 1.00

00:58:53.420 Give me one second.

00:58:53.980 I'm going to drink some water because my throat is very tired after that hour of talking.

00:58:58.280 All right.

00:59:07.720 Let's head over to our Super Chats here.

00:59:09.680 Thank you, everybody, in advance.

00:59:12.300 Really appreciate a lot of people here today.

00:59:15.320 A lot of people contributing.

00:59:16.480 Really appreciate that.

00:59:18.220 Let's see.

00:59:18.780 Life of Brian here for 499.

00:59:20.200 Massive blunder by the New Mexico governor.

00:59:23.460 She gave the right of Alex Jones trial case where we can transgress the noncompliance boundary with popular support.

00:59:31.260 Yeah.

00:59:31.540 So that's actually right, right?

00:59:32.860 So that's something that you should think about.

00:59:34.900 In this case, the state of exception and its exercise will probably backfire.

00:59:38.640 But this is going to get all kinds of people riled up.

00:59:41.860 A lot of people are going to file lawsuits.

00:59:44.820 A lot of people are going to donate to gun groups, though.

00:59:47.320 Please don't just do that.

00:59:48.340 That's many of them are barely on your side.

00:59:50.940 But there's going to be a lot of people who are worked up about this.

00:59:54.180 And the majority of the public is actually on the side of gun rights.

00:59:57.960 This is actually a popular issue for the Republicans, something the GOP and the right in general went on when it comes to popular opinion.

01:00:05.580 And so you're right.

01:00:06.880 This is actually probably a mess up.

01:00:08.640 By them, again, sad that this is what it takes.

01:00:11.120 Sad that they didn't feel like this about schools or didn't feel like this about shutting down businesses, didn't feel like this about shutting down churches.

01:00:20.620 There's a lot of places where you hope this would have already come into play.

01:00:23.420 But you're right.

01:00:23.920 This is a sympathetic case.

01:00:25.420 One that popular opinion is on the side of the right, on the side of people who are going to be pushing back against this.

01:00:29.700 And I think it is a mistake for them to put that on the board because then that could set a precedent where they kind of lose the ability to exercise the state of exception in that way.

01:00:39.720 So let's see.

01:00:42.200 Paul Frog for 64 or sorry, Paul Frog 64 for five dollars.

01:00:47.680 Thank you very much.

01:00:48.900 Elon removed quotes from his platform.

01:00:51.060 It's hidden from the menus.

01:00:53.120 The ADL and other interest groups run X.

01:00:55.100 Can't wait for it to collapse.

01:00:57.140 I mean, yeah, that's a great question, right?

01:00:59.060 I saw that change today, making it difficult to see who, quote, tweets things, makes it easier to hide certain groups and their activities kind of on the platform and how they drive engagement, especially when it comes to witch hunts.

01:01:12.120 I agree that that's a problem that you have to go through.

01:01:15.620 You can still see it, but you have to go through a lot of menus.

01:01:17.400 People aren't going to bother to.

01:01:18.380 It used to be an easy one click away thing.

01:01:20.440 It was at it was obviously hidden for that reason.

01:01:24.000 He'll probably say it's to avoid brigading on all sides.

01:01:27.140 But you're probably right that it's there to protect certain organizations or groups more than others.

01:01:32.760 That said, Elon is still bringing a lot of heat against the ADL.

01:01:36.780 I'm not ready to throw everything away yet at this point and say that he's not, you know, he's not on the side of trying to push back against these organizations.

01:01:45.760 But it does feel oftentimes like Elon is speaking out both sides of his mouth or he's taking actions in two directions, you know, kind of simultaneously.

01:01:53.200 So I will pretty much always my my Elon opinion is pretty much always the same.

01:01:58.540 He's probably not on our side, but he's probably more of an ally than an enemy.

01:02:03.300 I wouldn't worship him.

01:02:04.760 I wouldn't trust him to always have your interest at heart.

01:02:07.340 But I am always happy when he is helping us win and I'm always critical when he is against us.

01:02:15.120 And that's pretty much how I see Elon's activities.

01:02:19.120 Let's see.

01:02:20.900 Deuce Boogaloo for $20.

01:02:23.220 Thank you very much, sir.

01:02:24.460 The main problem here is a lack of deterrence over suspending rights.

01:02:28.340 Leaders should be terrified of population backlash to the state of exception instead of leaders actively seek them out because our people are docile and submissive.

01:02:36.780 And, yeah, that's that's really a good way to kind of, you know, encapsulate everything I was saying there in a longer way.

01:02:43.500 Right. At the end of the day, it's not it's not pieces of paper.

01:02:47.540 It's not words on a page.

01:02:49.000 It's not claims of rights, even rights from God that actually stop the actions and violations of a government.

01:02:56.480 It's the willingness of the people to push back against it.

01:03:00.340 And more importantly, the shared nature of those values.

01:03:04.280 Leaders are always going to try to push back.

01:03:06.780 To some extent against and kind of generate power and space through the state of exception.

01:03:11.500 But if you have a leadership that mostly agrees with you, those attempts will be less severe.

01:03:15.940 Right. They'll be limited.

01:03:16.640 Again, the Cincinnati example, they'll be limited by their own understanding.

01:03:21.140 However, if your leaders are just totally against the interests of the people, which our leaders pretty much are, then they will push as hard as they can over and over again, as you just pointed out there.

01:03:30.040 Ben, so thank you very much.

01:03:31.020 Skeptical Panda for $10.

01:03:34.180 They hated Oren because he told the truth.

01:03:36.420 Yeah, man, like I said, I made a lot of people angry here, but, you know, tough.

01:03:42.980 I don't know what to tell people.

01:03:44.120 I'm more than happy to debate or discuss this with people.

01:03:48.280 But this is just the truth.

01:03:49.640 This is how things are.

01:03:50.620 It's not my endorsement of the state of affairs.

01:03:52.600 It's not my agreement with the state of affairs, but it is an accurate assessment of the state of affairs.

01:03:58.820 And if you're angry at the messenger instead of what's happening, then I don't know what to tell you.

01:04:04.920 Cooper Weirdo for $2.

01:04:06.400 Here's Oren with his blinding optimism.

01:04:08.260 Look, everyone has said I'm the most optimistic guy.

01:04:11.620 I'm the dispenser of all of the white pills.

01:04:13.940 Everyone turns and tunes into this show.

01:04:16.060 We hear that we're going to win, that everything's going to be OK.

01:04:19.800 Yeah, I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys.

01:04:21.380 If you tuned in here and you expected me not to tell the truth about that, then I don't know what to say.

01:04:29.100 All right.

01:04:30.020 I'll go here for $5.

01:04:32.260 Trump was trying to kick out the temporary protective status of people from the 1990s.

01:04:37.580 Question mark.

01:04:38.880 So are you asking if he was?

01:04:40.680 Anyway, El Salvador Quake and a judge said his policy was based on racism.

01:04:46.340 Yeah, I mean, again, so often what happens is we create the state of exception and then it later on gets reinforced by courts.

01:04:55.300 It gets reinforced by, you know, the legislature.

01:04:59.560 They formalize it through legislation or it just gets kind of praised in education, that kind of thing.

01:05:05.120 And people kind of ignore it.

01:05:06.740 So that is the problem.

01:05:08.760 Again, you really the problem the right has is that they have a regime complete problem.

01:05:17.620 Every every branch is captured in some way.

01:05:21.940 Every institution is captured in some way, which is why it often feels like the right is just playing whack-a-mole because they get the presidency and they say, OK, we're going to take this action.

01:05:29.360 And then they try to hit it, but everything slips through their fingers and then they get a hold of the Supreme Court and they're like, OK, we solve that problem.

01:05:36.240 We're going after all the Supreme Court stuff and they get some things.

01:05:39.220 But at the end of the day, they're still being ignored, being sidestepped, that kind of thing.

01:05:44.080 They get a hold of legislature.

01:05:45.200 Well, nothing ever happens with legislature. 1.00

01:05:46.920 They're just useless. 0.98

01:05:48.100 And so it often feels like they're running around, running to thing to thing. 0.88

01:05:52.040 The truth is that either you have a unified political will to kind of move in a particular direction or you don't.

01:06:00.460 The left has a unified political will to advance their agenda.

01:06:04.420 They might have disagreements.

01:06:05.900 They might have back fighting, back fighting.

01:06:07.680 They might have infighting.

01:06:09.160 But the left knows that victory is the first priority.

01:06:14.640 Right.

01:06:14.820 And once they have victory, then they can debate how power will be wielded, how it will be implemented.

01:06:20.060 The right has the exact opposite effect.

01:06:22.760 You can see this over and over again.

01:06:24.180 Right.

01:06:24.380 So many people constantly just like, well, we have to have all these enemies on the right.

01:06:28.820 We have to have all these people that we constantly disagree with.

01:06:31.320 We have to push back on everything that isn't 100 percent in line with our conception or our doctrine, because if we don't do that, then something bad might happen.

01:06:40.260 And while you're busy arguing about that, left just runs over you.

01:06:44.100 And until the right is willing to say, OK, we will secure power and then we will decide how it will be used instead of vice versa, they're going to constantly run into this problem.

01:06:57.000 Horus Lupercal, Warmaster of the Evergreen Terrace for $199.

01:07:01.960 I thought the discussion on rights was NRX 101.

01:07:05.880 Yeah, in many ways it is, man.

01:07:07.120 And like I said, I've kind of I didn't delve too deep into kind of a larger understanding of rights because, you know, we only have so much time.

01:07:15.620 I've talked about this in some way before.

01:07:17.520 Maybe we'll get deeper into that in a different video.

01:07:19.920 But I didn't want to make this a four hour stream.

01:07:22.020 So I just kind of laid out the basics on this.

01:07:24.100 Again, there's a larger question of kind of rights and what they mean.

01:07:27.120 But I just wanted to put this in a framework everyone could understand, even if you don't, you know, if you're not following kind of the counter enlightenment all the way down, at least even if you're you're kind of a surface level conservative, you can still understand state of exception, how it's working and why there needs to be a better grasp of constitutional government.

01:07:47.100 If you actually want rights that you believe that you have to be protected.

01:07:53.760 Tiny Rick here for $4.99.

01:07:55.200 Nine states of exception are the norm, aren't they?

01:07:57.420 9-11 justified the Patriot Act, COVID justified lockdown, Trump justified lies and censorship, et cetera.

01:08:03.560 Yeah, absolutely.

01:08:04.540 That's exactly right.

01:08:05.960 Right.

01:08:06.140 We are rolling from one state of exception to the other.

01:08:09.620 You'll notice that the war in Ukraine has become another center around which the state of exception is exercised.

01:08:16.120 All of a sudden, you know, disagreeing with the war machine, disagreeing with certain narratives about, you know, the use of the military or the exercise of power across the world, the maintenance of the empire.

01:08:29.820 All of a sudden, those are all threats to democracy or whatever.

01:08:33.040 There's just this.

01:08:33.740 They were constantly searching for the next state of exception.

01:08:36.660 And the reason is our shared values are breaking down.

01:08:39.500 And the more your shared values are breaking down, the more you need to exercise the state of exception because you need to circumvent any of the processes that would slow down your political will.

01:08:51.420 Right.

01:08:51.600 So our regime needs more and more power to kind of hold its inverted version of truth aloft.

01:08:56.840 It can less and less rely on the democratic process to reliably produce the narratives and the votes necessary to have that power.

01:09:03.820 And that means that you need states of exception more and more continuously to step beyond all that stuff and just do what you want to do.

01:09:11.600 And that's why we're seeing that constantly.

01:09:14.400 Tiny Rick, 2008 bailouts are yet another example.

01:09:18.880 Yep. Again, state of exceptions are very common.

01:09:22.860 We like to believe in rule of law.

01:09:24.500 But the truth is that our government actively kind of suspends rights and suspends due process and suspends normal procedures all the time.

01:09:33.820 And what you should really, instead of being, you know, super defensive about that fact, you should be angry.

01:09:40.700 But you should aim your anger at like understanding how and why that happens and spotting it rather than just being angry that someone pointed out that that that's.

01:09:48.880 Kind of how that works.

01:09:50.440 Skeptical Panda again for $2.

01:09:52.540 Thank you very much, sir.

01:09:53.680 A very engaging talk.

01:09:54.780 Thanks again.

01:09:55.220 Well, thank you, man.

01:09:55.860 I really appreciate it.

01:09:56.740 Like I said, I knew that this was a controversial topic.

01:10:00.240 I know it's a topic that gets a lot of people fired up, especially people who might be a little less familiar.

01:10:06.380 With some of the arguments from kind of my corner of the right and my sphere.

01:10:10.400 But I wanted to do a longer extreme that would kind of break that down, help people to understand this.

01:10:16.200 I don't think that understanding this truth is incompatible even with a conservative understanding of rights in many ways.

01:10:26.940 I think it's incompatible with some of the conservative understanding of constitutions and how they work.

01:10:31.600 But I don't think it's incompatible with, say, something like the Bill of Rights.

01:10:36.640 So I wanted to go ahead and kind of lay that out.

01:10:41.300 So a broad case that everyone could grasp.

01:10:44.040 And then if you want to go a little deeper, there are plenty of videos on here on my channel about Carl Schmitt, state of exception, concept of the political, the sovereignty, friend and enemy distinction.

01:10:55.180 All that stuff is on here as well.

01:10:56.860 All right, guys, I'm going to go ahead and wrap this up.

01:10:59.560 But before I do, of course, please make sure that you go ahead and subscribe to the channel if you've not done so now.

01:11:05.540 I hear a lot of people telling me that they're not seeing this stuff when it goes live.

01:11:09.500 So please make sure you hit the notifications.

01:11:11.640 If you don't do that, YouTube is just stupid and thinks that just because you subscribe to a stream or a show doesn't mean you actually want to watch it.

01:11:18.560 So make sure that you do that. 0.64

01:11:20.080 Also, I want to thank everybody.

01:11:22.020 The podcast just continues to grow.

01:11:23.600 So it's well beyond the size of even the YouTube channel at this point.

01:11:27.500 It's been amazing how many people are doing that.

01:11:29.360 But, of course, if you want to get these broadcasts as podcasts, please make sure that you go ahead and subscribe to the ORMAC entire show on your favorite podcast platform.

01:11:37.440 Also, shout out to all my alt text sites.

01:11:39.600 Of course, I'm on Odyssey.

01:11:41.900 I'm on Rumble.

01:11:42.740 So if you don't want to watch on those mainstream platforms, you can make sure to watch there as well.

01:11:47.400 And, of course, everything's on Blaze TV.

01:11:50.540 And my columns appear over at the Blaze.

01:11:52.740 All right, guys, thank you once again for coming by.

01:11:55.340 And as always, I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - September 12, 2023

New Mexico Gun Ban & the State of Exception ｜ 9⧸12⧸23

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