The Auron MacIntyre Show - Performative Opposition to Wokeness ｜ Guest： Patrick Casey ｜ 2⧸6⧸23

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00:01:29.960 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:01:34.740 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:01:36.160 I've got a great stream with a great guest.

00:01:38.600 I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:01:40.940 We're going to be talking about wokeness.

00:01:42.920 Everyone knows it's really important to battle wokeness. 0.98

00:01:45.840 Even Bill Maher and sometimes Barack Obama speak out against wokeness.

00:01:50.740 But are they really fighting against it?

00:01:53.360 What is with all of this opposition?

00:01:55.120 What does it mean?

00:01:55.840 Joining me today is Patrick Casey.

00:01:58.500 He is the host of Restoring Order.

00:02:01.080 He's written for magazines like Chronicles and American Greatness.

00:02:04.680 Patrick, thanks for joining me.

00:02:05.960 Thank you for having me on, Aaron.

00:02:07.900 It's good to be here.

00:02:09.540 Yeah, absolutely.

00:02:10.060 It was really interesting because you suggested the stream topic.

00:02:14.400 And then as soon as you did, and I was like, well, that's a great idea.

00:02:17.220 Let's talk about it.

00:02:18.420 There are all these examples that just started popping up.

00:02:20.880 And it's always great when that happens.

00:02:22.300 You got plenty of real life illustrations.

00:02:23.700 Yeah, it makes the show up very easy.

00:02:25.580 It does.

00:02:26.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:02:26.900 It's how you know you picked a relevant topic.

00:02:29.580 So you said to me, let's talk about this opposition to wokeness.

00:02:33.380 Because like I said, we know everyone now is supposed to be opposed to this.

00:02:38.800 All mainstream conservative outlets, even so many centrist liberals, and even some guys

00:02:44.600 like Barack Obama have said, we need to calm down on this stuff.

00:02:47.740 We need to pump the brakes.

00:02:48.820 We had Bill Maher this weekend, every conservative's favorite guy to cheer on right before he makes

00:02:54.040 fun of them again.

00:02:55.300 He came out once again and did one of his little tirades about how you got to be careful with

00:02:59.840 the woke revolution because it'll come for you like it has for him.

00:03:04.340 But you're right.

00:03:05.760 So we have these performative oppositions to wokeness.

00:03:09.880 These stances were people who maybe went along with a lot of the woke revolution, were interested

00:03:15.860 in a lot of the things that might have been precursors to the woke revolution,

00:03:18.240 suddenly find themselves needing to step out and say, I oppose this.

00:03:23.580 We'll get into some of the people on the right who do this, because I think you made some

00:03:27.520 very good points about that as well when we talked beforehand.

00:03:30.460 But let's start with some of these people on the left.

00:03:32.480 Why are they feeling the need now to step out and oppose wokeness like this? 1.00

00:03:37.800 Sure.

00:03:38.300 Well, it might depend on the person, but I think overall there's some commonality with people

00:03:43.960 left of center who love to critique wokeness.

00:03:47.020 Because you might have someone like Bill Maher, I'm sure he's kind of a comedian, I guess.

00:03:53.140 At the very least, he's someone who likes to poke fun at things.

00:03:56.440 And of course, you're not allowed to poke fun at the sacred cows of the left.

00:04:01.160 And I think you do have some people who are rich and famous and don't like to be told what

00:04:06.400 to do.

00:04:07.320 That could be part of it.

00:04:09.120 When it comes to people who are a little more like Barack Obama, you mentioned that he made

00:04:13.700 some comments a year or two ago on call out culture, calling out you can't be totally woke.

00:04:18.820 Forget the exact phrase.

00:04:19.860 But I think you do have some political operatives who probably understand that the excesses of

00:04:27.080 wokeness are absolutely fueling the right and that it's providing some easy, low hanging fruit 1.00

00:04:34.160 for the Republican Party to critique when you have just the visceral hatred directed at entire

00:04:40.780 categories of people, Christians, men, white people, conservatives in general.

00:04:46.700 Now, coming from critical race theory, it's very easy for Republicans to run on it, to

00:04:52.220 campaign on it, for conservative media to point out that this is an issue, to get clicks

00:04:57.180 on social media.

00:04:58.640 And I do think that you have some people who are absolutely opposed to everything that we

00:05:04.920 value as right-wingers, as Christians.

00:05:07.180 But at the same time, they recognize that wokeness is maybe not the correct way to reach

00:05:12.740 their ends.

00:05:14.000 So that's kind of my perspective on it.

00:05:15.660 No, I think that's a good distinction because I think you do have like three distinct groups

00:05:21.080 on the left.

00:05:21.580 First, you got the ones that you just talked about, which are these people who they're in

00:05:25.940 line with all the goals of wokeness.

00:05:27.900 They have all the same biases, all the same hatreds.

00:05:31.300 They have very similar agendas, but they don't want to boil the frog too quickly.

00:05:36.360 It's more of a discussion of tactics.

00:05:38.560 We need to be more careful about the way in which we kind of dismantle these people.

00:05:43.540 And so it's really important to make sure that we don't push certain areas because it

00:05:47.600 might be too obvious.

00:05:48.660 It might give fuel to the wrong people. 0.90

00:05:50.740 It might make it too easy for the right to make certain arguments.

00:05:54.480 And so I think you're right that that's one very distinct group.

00:05:58.740 And then, of course, like you said, you got the Bill Maher group.

00:06:01.160 And these are mainly like comedians or rich people who just, you know, they thought that

00:06:06.180 the whole point was to just have this free speech and be able to take shots whatever they want.

00:06:10.560 Now, they're still mostly going to take shots at the safest targets possible.

00:06:14.720 Bill Maher is going to spend way more time making fun of the right and Christians and 0.93

00:06:18.420 religion in general than he is people on the left.

00:06:21.100 But he does want that opportunity.

00:06:23.560 He doesn't want to have people come behind him and tell him what to do.

00:06:26.540 And I think there's also the third, which is kind of that intellectual dark web, you know,

00:06:32.040 community, which still, I think, center left, if you're fair at all.

00:06:35.520 And there, of course, they want to have free inquiry.

00:06:39.220 They want to be able to look at the subjects they want to at universities or something with

00:06:44.040 still many very specific caveats, but a wider range than the woke would be willing to look at.

00:06:50.600 And so they also see this as kind of a threat to their center left.

00:06:54.760 They wanted to get off the revolution a couple decades ago.

00:06:58.040 And so they're they're really they have a lot of consternation about the people they

00:07:02.340 encourage most of the way through suddenly telling them that to what to do.

00:07:06.880 So I do think you're right that those are those are some of the key groups when it comes to

00:07:11.100 wokeness and the people who are kind of slightly opposing it from the left for different reasons.

00:07:16.940 Right.

00:07:17.480 And, you know, one thing that unites them other than ostensibly being against wokeness and

00:07:22.860 cancel culture is that they're not really right wing.

00:07:26.080 That's an important thing to keep in mind.

00:07:27.900 I don't think that, you know, political alliances oftentimes are defined by

00:07:32.240 coalitions of people who are uniting against something that they all oppose.

00:07:36.000 And I'm not saying everyone needs to fit, you know, X, Y and Z ideological purity tests

00:07:41.060 in order to be considered right wing or on our side.

00:07:44.100 But these people, ultimately, you can tell it's many of them are unhappy existing in a political

00:07:49.700 coalition that includes paleocons, neoreactionaries and whatever.

00:07:53.800 Um, I don't know if we want to name names on the show, but, uh, I know that some of them

00:07:58.040 in the, in the intellectual dark web have, you know, attacked you and Christian nationalism.

00:08:02.020 These are, it's almost like they think it's the same.

00:08:04.460 They're drawing a horseshoe theory, like Christian nationalism, which means a million different

00:08:08.180 things, depending on who you ask.

00:08:09.520 Some of these people in the intellectual dark web view wokeness and Christian nationalism as

00:08:14.740 equally threatening to this, uh, ideologically neutral, you know, form of classical liberalism or

00:08:21.780 something that, you know, you have pointed out in your videos never existed to begin with.

00:08:25.700 So, uh, it's just kind of, you know, it doesn't mean these people are enemies necessarily, but

00:08:29.280 it's, uh, if, if people get one takeaway from the show, it's that someone saying they're against

00:08:34.240 anti-wokeness, uh, is really not enough to mean that they're, they have the same ends in mind that

00:08:39.300 we do.

00:08:40.540 Yeah, you're right.

00:08:41.220 So very often these people specifically take their tact because they say, well, I might be

00:08:46.700 against the left now because they're in power, but the right is way more dangerous, right?

00:08:50.660 This is very, a very common refrain from these people.

00:08:53.320 So they do, uh, they are currently focusing their energy on, you know, the, the radical left

00:08:59.600 because it's very clearly in power.

00:09:01.820 It's very difficult for anyone to pretend, uh, that that's not the case.

00:09:05.720 They have almost complete control of every institution in the United States.

00:09:08.980 So it would be really comical to focus almost entirely on the right.

00:09:12.660 But the very minute that anyone on the right happens to step outside of their like super

00:09:18.080 neutral version of classical liberalism, all of a sudden you see the, the knives come out

00:09:23.140 and they, they're very clear that while they will mainly spend their time focusing on the

00:09:27.920 left, it's really important to immediately knife anyone to their right.

00:09:30.960 The minute that they step out of line, because their real fear at the end is not woke, just

00:09:35.380 they're not really worried about this, what they're really worried about is that someone

00:09:39.360 might, you know, have some kind of, uh, position that isn't derived directly from, I don't

00:09:44.860 know, John Locke or something.

00:09:47.140 Yeah, absolutely.

00:09:48.280 I mean, the minute you, you whip out Hegel, uh, you're, that's when the knives come out.

00:09:52.500 That's when you've revealed yourself to be a great threat to, uh, yeah, you've revealed

00:09:58.020 yourself to be a Gnostic or something.

00:09:59.440 That's kind of one of these meme, um, you know, uh, terms that gets thrown around a lot

00:10:04.140 in these circles.

00:10:04.600 Yeah, well, it's very true.

00:10:05.980 And I think it's part of, part of that is oftentimes in politics, yes, your alliances are defined

00:10:11.560 by what you're up against, but sometimes the, the greatest political, uh, uh, battles are

00:10:18.280 oftentimes with people with whom you're very close.

00:10:21.040 And I think oftentimes that's lamentable, um, you know, it depends, it really depends on

00:10:25.680 the context, but you know, the thing with a lot of the intellectual dark web types is they

00:10:30.400 understand they are opposed to paleocon dissident rights stuff just because they do ideologically

00:10:36.700 disagree.

00:10:37.420 But the other thing is they understand that there is just really a lot of grassroots opposition

00:10:42.280 to evils like critical race theory and the LGBT madness playing out in schools all across 1.00

00:10:47.900 the country.

00:10:48.460 Um, and they understand that, you know, the more conservative iterations of opposition

00:10:53.900 to that are, are, um, you know, are opposed to kind of, it's a competition basically.

00:11:00.760 So that's another angle to keep in mind.

00:11:02.320 It's that there's almost like a competition or a battle as to how to frame some of these

00:11:06.960 things, wokeness, how to oppose it and so forth.

00:11:09.600 So, you know, it doesn't mean that again, everyone who, you know, either you could disagree with

00:11:13.380 a tweet of theirs is, is, uh, the enemy or something of the sort.

00:11:16.320 But again, it is worth trying to keep people's motivations in mind and understand how some

00:11:20.780 of these dynamics work.

00:11:22.980 Yeah, exactly right.

00:11:23.720 You don't want to spend all your time running around and smashing people on the head who

00:11:27.260 are mostly pulling in your direction in a key battle, but you also want to understand

00:11:30.900 that those people are motivated to peel a particular direction and they will, the moment they have

00:11:36.380 the opportunity.

00:11:36.840 If you look, um, at someone like Andrew Sullivan, you know, he's now been, uh, been classified as

00:11:43.280 some kind of conservative at this point, though.

00:11:44.940 I'm not sure how that's possible.

00:11:46.280 I mean, I, I, I guess I do know exactly how that's possible, but, but, but, you know,

00:11:51.420 he just came out yesterday talking about like basically giving the conservative case for

00:11:56.220 trans kids, like giving the, you know, the, the, like, well, here's the moderate position 0.99

00:12:00.060 and people have to remember that this guy also labels himself as an opponent of wokeness,

00:12:05.440 right?

00:12:05.680 So when you, ever, you put people like this in the coalition, that's fine, but remember

00:12:10.300 that if they then gain the ability to kind of dictate the framing, now they can create

00:12:16.000 a wedge where they're saying, well, if you want to continue to be part of the pop, the,

00:12:19.280 the coalition, you need to be on board with this aspect of what we're going to do next.

00:12:23.440 And this is exactly how we get the neoconservative cycle where conservatism, the right wing is

00:12:28.240 constantly pulled left over and over again by trying to appease people like this in the idea

00:12:32.960 that at some point they'll form a broader coalition, victory will come and that they

00:12:36.240 can kind of revert things back to the way they hoped it would be.

00:12:40.320 Absolutely.

00:12:40.920 And that's, that's a very good point.

00:12:42.080 It's, it's striking a delicate balance between not, you know, declaring anyone with whom

00:12:46.260 there's some disagreement and enemy, but also recognizing that there, there is cause for

00:12:51.940 concern when it comes to these, you just have to be wary of, again, people's motivations,

00:12:57.000 where they're coming from ideologically.

00:12:59.140 And when, once they start drifting into, well, here's why we should, you know,

00:13:02.960 right.

00:13:03.240 The conservative case for trans kids or whatever.

00:13:06.020 That's when you have to say, okay, well, this is part of me, not what we should be about.

00:13:10.380 And, you know, this is something that should be pushed back against.

00:13:13.300 So.

00:13:14.580 No problem.

00:13:16.920 So, yeah, I think it's a huge deal for people to just kind of understand that, especially

00:13:21.380 when people explicitly tell you guys like James Lindley explicitly said, like, I am more

00:13:26.740 worried about the right at the end of the day than I am with the, with the woke left.

00:13:29.780 And when they tell you that you should just believe them.

00:13:31.600 And that doesn't mean that they might not do some kind of valuable work and there's

00:13:34.700 not something on which you could agree or some area which you could push back, but just

00:13:38.900 don't forget the things that they've told you.

00:13:41.000 Like they've been very explicit with their motivations.

00:13:43.340 Don't lie to yourself that eventually you're going to win these people over.

00:13:46.460 They're, they don't really like you at the end of the day.

00:13:48.380 They're just on your side because they have to be.

00:13:50.880 You're, you're, you're a ally of convenience, not one of conviction.

00:13:55.860 So, so we've talked about some of this performative opposition on kind of the left and the center

00:14:01.800 here, but I wanted to go ahead and get into the right as well, because again, the one thing

00:14:05.940 that every kind of bog standard con ink, you know, run of the mill establishment conservative

00:14:13.300 knows is we're against wokeness.

00:14:14.880 Most of them couldn't probably define it.

00:14:17.320 They couldn't, they couldn't understand the lines around it.

00:14:20.060 They couldn't really name for you more than one or two things in which it's connected to,

00:14:23.920 but they do know it's really important for them to oppose it, especially if they're, you

00:14:29.580 know, making a presidential run.

00:14:31.680 So you are putting out yesterday, a few people who are eyeing very clearly a presidential run

00:14:39.700 here soon, probably going to try to contest either Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis, whoever

00:14:44.840 ends up being the kind of the front runner in that, that competition.

00:14:49.420 But these people are very similar in that they all know they need to be, you know, kind

00:14:55.600 of opposed to wokeness, but they don't really know how best to approach it and what a meaningful

00:15:00.040 opposition of that looks like.

00:15:03.240 Absolutely.

00:15:03.880 And, you know, we previously went into the three categories of performative opposition to

00:15:08.880 wokeness.

00:15:09.480 You had, of course, the kind of comedian celebrities who want to be able to tell fat jokes or something

00:15:14.520 of the sort.

00:15:15.400 We also had the more liberal types.

00:15:17.940 I would throw Larry Fink in there as well.

00:15:19.720 I think he's the CEO of BlackRock.

00:15:21.480 He's criticized wokeness.

00:15:22.940 So if that, if you haven't been convinced that just criticizing wokeness alone is, does

00:15:28.080 not make you some kind of edgy dissident, doesn't mean you really know anything or you have sound

00:15:31.960 values.

00:15:32.380 Let that be it.

00:15:33.520 Also, I want to give a shout out to Academic Agent who pointed me onto that in a speech

00:15:37.420 he gave at a conference.

00:15:38.200 But credit where credit's due.

00:15:40.360 But I do think it's this category of conservatives, of Republicans, really, who are ostensibly

00:15:47.520 anti-woke, but are nevertheless not on our sides, our side singular, that is the most cause

00:15:53.800 for concern.

00:15:54.420 Because these are people who are trying to get our vote.

00:15:57.340 Bill Maher is not trying to get our vote.

00:15:59.120 Neither is, you know, Andrew Sullivan.

00:16:01.920 You never know where this might go.

00:16:03.200 But as of now, someone like Mike Pompeo, however, is trying to get your vote, at least

00:16:08.700 maybe.

00:16:09.340 People think he's going to run in 2024.

00:16:11.520 And I think there's a good chance.

00:16:12.620 Nikki Haley as well.

00:16:13.840 She tweeted out, CRT is anti-American, like, boom, wow, crazy.

00:16:19.460 And I think it's particularly insidious that some of these types are starting to voice opposition

00:16:26.940 to issues such as critical race theory.

00:16:30.120 They understand that critical race theory, opposition to it, is growing at the grassroots

00:16:34.480 level, that this is what the average Republican voter really cares about.

00:16:39.000 But just keep in mind, these people have no intention of delivering.

00:16:41.820 And to the extent that they would deliver, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't go far enough to

00:16:47.860 make much of a difference.

00:16:49.340 Now, there are many ways we can go from here.

00:16:51.240 We can talk about the individuals in particular.

00:16:53.500 We can talk about what would actually need to be done to end wokeness, wherever you want

00:17:00.340 to take it, Oren.

00:17:01.780 Sure.

00:17:02.380 So let's start from the individuals, and then we'll go to the wider question of effective

00:17:07.260 opposition to wokeness.

00:17:08.480 So I know, for instance, Nikki Haley, her presidential run is the worst kept secret ever.

00:17:14.240 She quasi-announced her run like three or four different times, which I think is kind of amazing.

00:17:19.600 It's really fantastic how good consultants are at extracting payments out of people who

00:17:28.620 have no chance of winning.

00:17:31.440 But nonetheless, there are plenty of people who will be willing to funnel money through

00:17:36.120 her and will pay those people. 0.96

00:17:38.380 So I guess it's going to work out for them at the end of the day.

00:17:41.600 But Nikki Haley, like she said, she's got to go through the steps.

00:17:44.340 She's got to talk about opposing wokeness. 0.99

00:17:46.240 It's anti-American.

00:17:47.200 It's not good.

00:17:47.800 Very, very bad.

00:17:48.580 But when it comes to any kind of specific application of that idea, she falls down almost

00:17:54.680 comedically right out of the gate, right?

00:17:56.640 Like she opposed the ban on transgender athletes and female sports in her own state.

00:18:02.220 This is a very low bar, right?

00:18:04.000 Of the controversial plans, like making sure that like men dressed as women don't slam

00:18:09.520 girls into the ground. 1.00

00:18:12.620 That seems like a pretty easy.

00:18:14.400 That's a softball over the plate for anyone who's trying to oppose wokeness. 0.98

00:18:17.260 But this was a bridge too far for, you know, for the the Chamber of Commerce candidate Nikki

00:18:22.760 Haley, right?

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00:18:53.600 Yeah, I actually had forgotten that anecdote.

00:18:57.300 And that's a very important thing to keep in mind is I was thinking in terms of, you know,

00:19:03.260 these people would maybe enact some policies like that, like banning men in women's sports. 1.00

00:19:08.700 And that would be, I mean, it's something I support.

00:19:11.320 But some of these steps designed to combat many things the left is doing, particularly

00:19:15.900 critical race theory and the LGBT madness are, you know, I support, you know, some degree 1.00

00:19:21.160 of incrementalism, I suppose, but you got to keep in mind that some of the people offering

00:19:25.420 this stuff might just view that as the end, right?

00:19:29.180 It's, oh, well, we banned men in women's sports. 0.97

00:19:32.220 I mean, what else is there left to do?

00:19:34.400 But someone like Nikki Haley isn't even willing to go that far.

00:19:37.320 So you have different degrees of performative opposition to wokeness.

00:19:44.100 And yeah, Nikki Haley's like not even willing to go through, not even willing to support like

00:19:47.720 the bare minimum of, you know, maintaining some sense of sanity in this country.

00:19:51.940 So again, that should kind of tell you all you need to know about about Nikki Haley and,

00:19:56.620 you know, just how opposition to stated opposition to CRT and wokeness really isn't enough.

00:20:02.620 So what about Mike Pompeo?

00:20:04.540 Because I know you were reading Mike Pompeo's work and, you know, God bless you for doing

00:20:07.800 the work that no one else wants to do here.

00:20:10.320 You're really an impressive project there that you're taking on.

00:20:14.180 But Mike Pompeo is another one of these guys that seems to, you know, some kind of MAGA

00:20:20.740 energy maybe, but never really felt like he was behind anything, didn't really have roots

00:20:25.880 in the movement, didn't really understand the issues at play, was more riding a wave than

00:20:30.180 any kind of anything else.

00:20:32.500 When this kind of person mouths the opposition to wokeness, what are they doing?

00:20:37.760 Like, where is he falling short?

00:20:39.140 Sure, and I'm actually more concerned about a Mike Pompeo type figure or type opposition

00:20:46.060 to many of the things we're against than I am Nikki Haley, because I'm reading Mike Pompeo's

00:20:51.940 book.

00:20:52.380 I'm about halfway through it.

00:20:53.700 And believe me, I am by no means a Pompeo supporter.

00:20:56.640 But it's particularly insidious because I'm reading it and I'm like, it seems like reasonably

00:21:02.520 good.

00:21:03.180 It seems like very Trumpian.

00:21:05.360 Now, this is the guy who I believe hired Mark Milley.

00:21:07.820 You know, there's so much to critique when it comes to Pompeo, who was CIA director and

00:21:13.860 secretary of state.

00:21:15.260 So there was a lot of bad stuff that went on under Mike Pompeo's nose, many bad people

00:21:19.640 he appointed.

00:21:21.140 And, you know, yet in his book, he's saying things like, you know, I'm just a white guy.

00:21:25.080 Why would, you know, this bureaucracy want to hire me?

00:21:27.200 And I'm like, wow, OK, he's calling out the left's anti-white agenda or something of the

00:21:31.120 sort that as it exists in the government.

00:21:32.700 Wow, that's reasonably based.

00:21:33.980 A few years ago, you wouldn't have heard anyone say that.

00:21:35.680 Now it's more commonplace.

00:21:38.160 But what what Pompeo represents is is a there's would he even do anything?

00:21:43.660 That's a question worth asking.

00:21:44.960 And B, I would I would say this, even if he were to get elected president or something,

00:21:50.880 I could see him doing kind of some of this low level opposition to wokeness that fundamentally

00:21:55.760 wouldn't change anything.

00:21:57.120 It would be things that, you know, if were they steps in the right direction would be

00:22:01.840 good.

00:22:02.280 Things like it'd be cracking down on.

00:22:04.320 So I know while he was at the secretary of state, he was taking issue with some of the

00:22:09.820 diversity stuff in the Pentagon.

00:22:12.880 Now, again, did he actually do anything to stop it?

00:22:15.320 Well, however much power he had, it doesn't seem like he did.

00:22:18.240 But, you know, even if he cracked down somewhat on this at the end of the day, pre wokeness,

00:22:23.600 we still had racial favoritism, we still had affirmative action, we had still had a lot

00:22:28.220 of civil rights law that was that was doing bad things.

00:22:30.440 Wokeness is really just an eruption, right?

00:22:33.520 It's really this stuff coming to fruition in particularly obscene and egregious, invisible

00:22:39.540 forms.

00:22:40.760 So just kind of doing away with the surface level stuff would take us back to the Bush 0.94

00:22:45.520 era.

00:22:45.940 Basically, you would still have mass immigration going on and particularly in foreign policy

00:22:50.020 would still have empire.

00:22:50.840 And we all know that very often empires die because they expand and they spend so much

00:22:56.840 energy and money just doing who knows what on the other side of the planet.

00:23:01.720 And I think the statistic is of all of the empires which have existed throughout world

00:23:05.240 history, two thirds of them have ceased to exist by year 250.

00:23:09.260 America has, yeah, there's no indication that we're going to fare much better.

00:23:14.780 And so Pompeo also is opposed to wokeness because it gets in the way with this kind of new form

00:23:20.200 of neoconservatism where they're pursuing the same agenda, but they just at least say

00:23:25.360 they don't want boots on the ground. 0.82

00:23:27.120 And we all understand they're creating the preconditions where boots on the ground might

00:23:29.760 be necessary.

00:23:30.920 But, you know, World War Three or antagonizing Russia and whatever else.

00:23:34.500 So it's really that you got to forget that globalism isn't really inherently left wing.

00:23:39.620 I would say it largely is, but you still have the outer party, right?

00:23:42.560 You still have like right globalism and Pompeo absolutely represents that.

00:23:46.420 So even if you have that, but you take away like some of the crazy trans stuff and some 1.00

00:23:53.760 of the, you know, diversity, whatever, what you still have is very rotten and America will 0.99

00:23:58.700 still die even if you don't have the excesses of wokeness.

00:24:01.680 So again, oftentimes it's those who are at least appear to be the closest to you, right?

00:24:06.680 Or the wolves in sheep's clothing, and those are the ones you need to be the most aware

00:24:09.380 of.

00:24:10.540 Yeah, I think it's really important to address that arc as well.

00:24:14.260 The opposition to wokeness on the grounds of it creates inefficiencies for the empire,

00:24:21.540 right?

00:24:21.840 There's a huge understanding, I think, coming from a number of people who understand that

00:24:27.640 the changes to the military, the approaches for recruitment, the approaches for structuring

00:24:33.800 the military, the kind of training it's undergoing, the people it's purging out of it, it's setting

00:24:38.480 itself up for a pretty big disaster.

00:24:40.900 Now, right now, the United States, all it does is, like you said, it's just baiting people

00:24:46.100 with proxy war, right?

00:24:47.400 We got, we're just going to ship tanks.

00:24:49.280 We're not going to fight Russia, but we are going to ship tanks and the people who maintain 1.00

00:24:53.200 it and the people who, you know, advise about it to a war zone.

00:24:57.160 And then, you know, oops, someone got hit.

00:24:59.100 Look what happened.

00:24:59.700 Now you have a situation where you actually need to put troops in the field.

00:25:04.340 And the question is, can a force of people who were selected for their political loyalty

00:25:11.000 rather than for their ability to conduct a violent action against the enemies of the

00:25:15.920 United States really stand up in that kind of situation?

00:25:20.040 I think a lot of people in the military are hoping that technology and, you know, just the

00:25:24.040 ability to outspend and use economic leverage and things will always put the United States

00:25:28.340 in kind of the winning position when it comes to these altercations.

00:25:31.680 But there's a real rubber meets the road situation.

00:25:34.600 And we've seen that, unfortunately, the United States, through many different reasons, has

00:25:38.720 been able, unable to convert things like Afghanistan into wins because they have chosen very, you 0.99

00:25:45.840 know, there's been no real mission.

00:25:47.740 There's no been no real good of the United States behind these actions.

00:25:50.840 And so guys like Pompeo, who are have an investment in that foreign policy might say to themselves,

00:25:57.220 well, I do want to push back against wokeness, but solely for the fact that it's going to

00:26:01.900 keep American expansion or keep, you know, hegemony out of the hands of the people who I support.

00:26:09.000 And that's a real issue, you know, because wokeness is a big aspect of what's going on right now.

00:26:15.840 Like you pointed out, it is a symptom or a logical manifestation down the road, evolution

00:26:21.640 of different movements that have been coalescing in the United States.

00:26:25.780 But it's not the only thing that's happening.

00:26:27.500 And the imperial, you know, kind of forever war aspect of the regime is something that,

00:26:33.640 as you pointed out, many people on the right are, who are at least invested in permanent

00:26:38.160 Washington, still think is very important, even if they're willing to dial back the wokeness 1.00

00:26:43.900 a few decades to make sure that it's more efficient than what it's doing.

00:26:48.220 Well said.

00:26:49.200 And I think if you to go to Machiavelli's, who's Machiavelli, the lion fox dichotomy,

00:26:55.760 where the lions are, there's a lot to be said of the differences between the two.

00:27:00.000 But just for now, anyone who's not unaware, the lions are kind of like a bolder statesman,

00:27:04.140 I think tend to be a little more conservative, opposed to change, whereas the,

00:27:08.160 foxes are, they're craftier and they're more prone to subterfuge and whatever else.

00:27:12.540 So much of, so much of Pompeo's gripes with the State Department bureaucracy and the bureaucracy,

00:27:17.820 federal bureaucracy in general, which he outlines in his book, are lion complaints about the

00:27:23.260 foxes.

00:27:23.860 He's complaining that under Obama and, you know, this kind of permanent State Department

00:27:28.800 bureaucracy, that they're, they're too opposed to doing like bold, grand actions.

00:27:33.920 It's, they're too opposed.

00:27:35.300 And it's, it's like, okay, well, your complaint about the State Department is they're like

00:27:40.220 not as willing to do like insane stuff on, you know, against all of these, you know,

00:27:45.580 they're not as willing to like take it to Russia, take it to Iran.

00:27:48.520 I don't have any real major sympathies to these, these other nations, but I'd like to like,

00:27:53.440 not, you don't want them to, you know, blow us up and invade us or whatever, of course,

00:27:56.900 but we, we really don't want to antagonism, antagonize them.

00:28:00.140 And that is what so much of globalist foreign policy has, has been about.

00:28:04.240 So, so much of what Mike Pompeo was taught, has talks about in his book with regard to

00:28:09.060 foreign policy is, you know, saying that America's back, we're back on the world stage.

00:28:13.320 Well, what are we back from?

00:28:14.400 He's saying that we're back from the Obama era.

00:28:17.340 Well, what was before the Obama era, the Bush era, that's like kind of what these people

00:28:21.160 want to take us back to.

00:28:22.320 And the Bush era, you still had mass immigration.

00:28:25.860 It was, it was, you know, in theory, more conservative, I guess, more performatively

00:28:29.920 conservative, but that, that, you know, so much bad stuff happened there for people who

00:28:34.820 are sincerely right-wing.

00:28:36.580 So Mike Pompeo, yeah, there's, there's a lot to be concerned with here.

00:28:39.980 And, you know, the unfortunate thing is many voters out there would fall for that act of,

00:28:44.580 you know, today we're getting rid of like, you know, 2% of the diversity programs at the

00:28:50.360 Pentagon, you know, president Pompeo says this, everyone cheers for him, things like

00:28:55.400 that.

00:28:55.740 And you just have to ask yourself when some of these changes to proposed changes are

00:29:01.060 actually actual policies that, that get rid of wokeness, some degree of wokeness, woke

00:29:05.140 policies, you have to ask yourself if these are fundamentally changing any things, whether

00:29:08.320 or not they're steps in the right direction.

00:29:10.800 And I think if you want to look at like actual good stuff that's being done with regard to

00:29:15.340 wokeness, you could look to Christopher Ruffo and the things he's doing down at the college

00:29:20.540 and I believe Sarasota, Florida, and Ruffo's made it very clear that like, if you see him

00:29:24.940 doing one thing, it's like, this is part of like a bigger, uh, opposition to wokeness.

00:29:30.520 It's not, you know, someone who's running for president, who's saying that they're going

00:29:34.100 to do away with like some really just ground level woke policy and then, Hey, okay, I hope

00:29:39.420 you are, I hope, uh, I earned your vote kind of thing.

00:29:41.600 So, um, and I think Ruffo to his credit is, has also said that, you know, it's not just

00:29:45.600 getting rid of the left-wing bureaucracy.

00:29:48.640 It's, it's about, uh, you know, replace that.

00:29:51.640 We're not, we're not trying to get to like this value neutral thing.

00:29:53.780 No, we're getting rid of leftist policies and bureaucracy and we're placing, replacing

00:29:57.700 them with, with conservative stuff.

00:29:59.660 Now that doesn't mean that everyone's going to agree on everything.

00:30:02.440 I'm sure everyone watching this, we might all have a different, uh, visions of what,

00:30:07.120 you know, our ideal laws and conservative country would look like.

00:30:09.960 But as long as we can agree on those basics, uh, I think that's, I think that's very important.

00:30:14.500 Another thing I would add with regard to the things Ruffo's working on and DeSantis and

00:30:18.360 some of these other governors is, um, it's, you're, you're fundamentally doing away.

00:30:23.180 You're, you're doing material damage to the other side.

00:30:25.760 You've talked about woke patronage networks.

00:30:27.680 You're, it's not just that there's going to be less indoctrination.

00:30:30.400 It's you're getting rid of jobs and money for the other side.

00:30:33.980 And Trump, to his credit, uh, with his executive order that was short-lived because he didn't

00:30:37.840 get his term, uh, had that effect, right?

00:30:40.500 He signed the executive order in 2020 and a number of colleges were like suspending diversity

00:30:45.300 festivals and like limiting curricula just to see how things played out.

00:30:49.200 So, um, it's, uh, it's very important to look at the actual ramifications.

00:30:52.660 If someone's doing something against wokeness, right?

00:30:55.440 Is it just like bare minimum and they're hoping that that's enough for you to vote for them?

00:30:59.460 Or is it part of a process of, of incrementally or even very quickly in the case of what's

00:31:04.960 happening at the college and Sarasota, is it, is it part of a comprehensive plan to just

00:31:09.560 like get rid of the woke infrastructure overall?

00:31:12.240 And it should be.

00:31:14.100 Absolutely.

00:31:14.280 I hear so many people, I hear this all the time telling me, oh, well, you know, we don't

00:31:18.960 need to worry about the culture war.

00:31:20.200 The culture war is a distraction.

00:31:21.760 It doesn't matter.

00:31:22.760 We should be focusing on whatever marginal tax cuts or economic incentive or whatever.

00:31:27.400 What they don't understand is while the cultural issues are enough in and of themselves, it

00:31:33.540 should be justified.

00:31:34.340 If someone is looking to mutilate a child, you know, under the, the auspices of gender 0.89

00:31:40.460 ideology, that should be enough to generate opposition.

00:31:43.600 But this stuff also has a very powerful effect.

00:31:46.620 Like you're talking about with the woke patronage, each step of this revolution has built into it

00:31:51.900 jobs.

00:31:52.460 It has built into it payday, sinecures, infrastructure.

00:31:55.860 There are people getting paid.

00:31:57.760 There are people making a living.

00:31:59.040 There are people who are cashing checks off of all of this stuff.

00:32:02.300 And the great thing about more than just saying the word saying, oh, it's anti-American or

00:32:07.600 it's really got to stop.

00:32:08.620 It's going too far.

00:32:09.600 But the thing about actually taking that action is not only does it build something for your

00:32:16.480 side, but it, it harms the essential infrastructure that the left requires in order to continue

00:32:24.020 to exert its cultural influence.

00:32:26.520 Look, there are plenty of people who are true believers, of course, in wokeness.

00:32:30.740 In fact, most people who are plugged into the network are on some level true believers, but

00:32:35.660 you have to understand that people's, you know, beliefs are heavily influenced by their

00:32:39.740 material incentives.

00:32:40.820 Okay.

00:32:41.320 If there was no one who is offering high prestige, high paying jobs to people who are just, you 1.00

00:32:48.900 know, vomiting out all kinds of woke garbage in books and giving seminars to corporations 0.86

00:32:54.880 and it being provided, you know, the, these lifetime appointments inside the university 0.92

00:33:00.640 system or high prestige roles inside the media.

00:33:03.580 If these things were to disappear tomorrow, a lot of people would look for the next thing

00:33:08.320 that provided them that power, that money, whatever.

00:33:11.420 And you can get really angry about that.

00:33:13.480 You can whine about that, but that's just human nature.

00:33:15.880 And so you have to understand that a lot of these people are, they believe in the stuff

00:33:20.260 because that's where their incentives line up.

00:33:22.180 But at the end of the day, if things went in another direction, they'd be on board with

00:33:25.680 that.

00:33:25.940 And so I think you're right to point out the stuff that Chris Ruffo is doing, because

00:33:30.120 like you said, people might not agree with every aspect, every, every ideological part

00:33:35.600 of some kind of alignment, but he is taking apart specifically institutions and organizations

00:33:42.300 that, that materially benefit leftists.

00:33:45.380 And the thing that the right never does, that left does all the time is take scalps, right?

00:33:50.060 When the left comes after someone, they finish them.

00:33:52.660 They get rid of their career.

00:33:54.060 They make sure that they can't have a job anymore.

00:33:56.040 They make sure that they're depersoned.

00:33:57.940 The right is like, yeah, well, we really don't like that.

00:34:00.440 This kind of stuff.

00:34:01.260 It's ugly.

00:34:02.120 But Ruffo, Ruffo, Ruffo, I've seen that and I'm making the Peter Pan references.

00:34:06.780 But Ruffo is there, you know, and he's making sure that while he makes that these people no

00:34:12.220 longer have a pipeline of material funding for this stuff and prestige, he's also creating

00:34:18.980 and possibly installing a network of people who would be on his side, on our side.

00:34:24.700 And that's incredibly important because it gives a place for people to go.

00:34:28.200 It creates incentives for people on our side.

00:34:30.800 It creates a rallying point.

00:34:32.320 And it also gets rid of that dangerous, neutral notion that you're talking about.

00:34:36.600 Many people, again, people like Andrew Sullivan and even Jordan Peterson have come after Chris

00:34:42.700 Ruffo saying, oh, be careful.

00:34:44.960 Now you're going to be just like the left.

00:34:47.220 Let's talk about that a little bit.

00:34:48.840 Why are people like Jordan Peterson coming after someone like Chris Ruffo?

00:34:53.440 Why don't they want to see someone like him succeed in establishing a counter narrative

00:34:58.540 to the left in the university system?

00:35:00.840 I'm glad you brought that up.

00:35:02.120 I hadn't really considered that angle prior when I was doing some basic show prep.

00:35:06.980 Before this, but that's very good.

00:35:08.140 I've seen, and I was even tweeting about Jordan Peterson with, what did he say?

00:35:12.280 Careful, you know, don't support the government censors or something.

00:35:16.300 And yeah, well, that's just the thing is at the end of the day, you can say you're in support

00:35:22.160 of something, you're against something, you can use it to grift donations and get clicks

00:35:29.640 on social media.

00:35:30.440 But at the end of the day, when someone is actually taking substantive action against whatever

00:35:36.480 you claim to be against, that's when it really, you know, your true colors are revealed.

00:35:45.160 And at the end of the day, so many of these people actually aren't willing to do what must

00:35:50.140 be done to end wokeness.

00:35:52.020 Nothing that Ruffo is doing is like extreme or like fascism or anything of the sort.

00:35:56.720 Um, it's, it's basically fully lawful and just, that's the thing.

00:36:01.440 It's like, okay, you're using the laws to get rid of like bias against entire classes

00:36:05.960 of, of people.

00:36:07.480 And somehow that's, oh, is that government censorship, Jordan Peterson, Jordan Peterson,

00:36:12.200 who's been tweeting out about how, if you say like LOL and LMFAO, that you're, that you're 0.92

00:36:17.680 a narcissistic Machiavellian. 0.71

00:36:19.580 Yeah, it's, it's really wacky.

00:36:21.040 But, um, and again, uh, you'll, you'll see the true colors.

00:36:25.340 You'll, you'll see someone, what, what they're really about in how they respond to people who

00:36:30.600 are actually dismantling left-wing bureaucracies.

00:36:34.520 Uh, and, you know, we talked about this earlier.

00:36:36.080 It doesn't mean that there necessarily are enemies, but if you're not willing to support,

00:36:40.320 if someone isn't willing to support the only conceivable way that you can do away with

00:36:45.800 wokeness, which is doing away with the, the, the institutions and the mechanisms by which

00:36:52.060 wokeness is made law, by which people who are insufficiently woke are punished.

00:36:57.420 You're not willing to do away with all of that.

00:36:59.400 Then, you know, you're just, then it's performative, just like the title of the show.

00:37:02.960 So people should definitely be wary of all that.

00:37:06.220 Yeah, it really does.

00:37:07.260 Like you said, show people's true colors.

00:37:08.980 And again, not, not to spend the whole time bagging on Peterson, but he, he, you know,

00:37:12.980 he's done this before when it comes to people like the Canadian truckers, right?

00:37:16.980 You know, Oh, we need to stand up against tyranny and you need to show your, your, your, uh,

00:37:21.620 willingness to put yourself on the line.

00:37:23.840 Oh, here are some people putting themselves on the line saying no to the government.

00:37:27.260 Oh, I don't know guys.

00:37:28.520 Yeah.

00:37:28.700 Not like that.

00:37:29.500 That's not what I had in mind.

00:37:30.680 Well, what did you have in mind, Jordan?

00:37:32.360 Yeah, exactly.

00:37:32.820 Everyone gets a stern talking to and receives a book deal. 0.91

00:37:35.540 It's just, it's very ridiculous.

00:37:37.820 And so we routinely see people like this come after, you know, guys like Rufo. 0.77

00:37:42.660 And again, like I said, Rufo is really not providing any kind of extreme pushback.

00:37:47.080 He's simply stripping out the incentives to go the other direction.

00:37:50.480 Right.

00:37:50.820 And he's making sure that there's some kind of real, uh, there, there's something to fill

00:37:57.340 the void and nothing radical, nothing crazy, but just understanding that there needs to

00:38:01.160 be some kind of understanding of basic American pride, basic rationality, basic, you know,

00:38:07.720 just things that were common sense in the culture, uh, a few decades ago.

00:38:12.220 So they'd be okay if those things reasserted themselves in order to push back against what's

00:38:17.840 happening now.

00:38:18.660 It's pretty mild.

00:38:19.860 It's, it's, it's really might not, in my eyes, might not even be sufficient, but at

00:38:24.040 least shows a willingness to take real action.

00:38:26.580 And I think that that's the real thing is that that's why all these people get worried,

00:38:30.660 especially people in the center.

00:38:32.420 They never expected opposition to wokeness to require anything of substance.

00:38:38.480 They always thought that it would simply be swatting away a few people who had crossed

00:38:43.040 the line, who had gone too far and take the revolution a little too fast.

00:38:47.560 They never thought it would actually mean that the pendulum could possibly swing the other

00:38:51.120 way because why would they, right?

00:38:52.460 They've never seen the pendulum swing the other way in their whole life.

00:38:55.800 And so they can't imagine a scenario in which, look, as Rufo pointed out, he's not asking

00:39:01.320 for the government to, to even ban the vast majority of this stuff.

00:39:04.520 He's just saying the, the citizens should have the right to regulate the institutions

00:39:09.080 that are erected in their name.

00:39:11.220 And that seems to be a bridge too far for so many of these people.

00:39:15.780 Yeah.

00:39:16.240 Again, nothing that he or most other people who are, who are taking steps, even including

00:39:21.000 Trump with his executive order, none of these people are actually advocating for anything

00:39:24.880 like extra constitutional.

00:39:26.540 And yet that's how they're treated by many of these purported opponents of, of wokeness.

00:39:31.560 It's, it's very odd.

00:39:33.220 Another thing to keep in mind is with regard to how many of these people who claim to be

00:39:41.800 against wokeness, so many of them want to keep it within the realm of ideas, the battle

00:39:46.560 of ideas.

00:39:47.940 And I'm not against discussing the theory and the intellectual genealogy of some of these

00:39:54.060 ideas, but I think that we should be the people who are trying to make it all that.

00:39:58.640 That's, that's an important thing to keep in mind.

00:40:00.180 The Jordan Petersons, the, some of the intellectual dark web, that's really what a lot of these

00:40:04.260 types want to do is just have you thinking about like these obscure thinkers and oftentimes

00:40:10.000 it's wrong, right?

00:40:11.260 Hegel invented wokeness or something that's like, okay, well, whatever, whatever like

00:40:15.400 little nugget of, of truth that you're trying to like blow up into this big theory is probably

00:40:20.280 not correct.

00:40:20.940 But the thing to keep in mind is with that distract, what does that distract you from?

00:40:24.680 That distracts you from, again, like doing material, political, nonviolent, material damage

00:40:29.880 to the woke bureaucracy, which is what needs to be done.

00:40:33.580 That's the only, the only way that any of this is going to be stopped.

00:40:37.480 Conservatives just really need to get it through their heads that the battle of ideas is, it's

00:40:44.460 only useful insofar as you can win people over who are going to do other things such as take

00:40:49.940 political action to do stuff like Rufo's doing, some of the stuff Trump did in office, that's

00:40:56.240 what needs to be done, right?

00:40:57.220 Wokeness isn't just some idea that's out there that infects people's minds and, you know, you

00:41:02.600 just have to convince people.

00:41:04.180 That's not the case, right?

00:41:04.960 It emanates from the halls of power.

00:41:07.260 And as a result, you have to stop it from emanating from the halls of power.

00:41:11.480 And that involves, you know, some type of people, you know, you could say peaceful regime

00:41:16.820 change, but at the very least, the peaceful restructuring of institutions.

00:41:20.860 And that can happen at the state level.

00:41:22.960 It is in some states when I'd like to see a lot more of that.

00:41:26.460 Whether or not it can happen at the federal level is kind of up in the air.

00:41:29.580 I think we probably got a few election cycles to see whether or not there's any hope there.

00:41:32.880 I'm not quite as pessimistic, but, you know, there's a lot of debate in my, you know, political

00:41:37.100 circles as to whether or not there's any hope for kind of a national restoration.

00:41:40.920 And yeah, I understand the people who are a little more pessimistic on that, but I think

00:41:44.920 I think we'll see, regardless, plenty to be due, plenty to be done locally and nationally.

00:41:49.600 But yeah, you have to, there's an apparatus, right?

00:41:51.700 There are institutions that are mandating these things.

00:41:55.360 And, you know, just the battle of ideas doesn't, is only useful insofar as you get people, convince

00:42:00.520 people to go and like do the second thing.

00:42:02.580 So, yeah, I've said this, you know, before, but I always ask these, you know, principled,

00:42:09.480 classical liberal battle of ideas types, like what does winning look like to you?

00:42:14.760 Like, do you think that at some point you just slammed down kind of the final argument,

00:42:20.340 like, like some kind of atheist debate me bro from a decade ago?

00:42:25.440 And then all of a sudden those on the radical left are like, oh, you're right.

00:42:29.860 You've, you've tracked the exact genealogy of your idea ideas and they like shake your

00:42:33.580 hand and they like turn over the keys to the global American empire. 1.00

00:42:37.440 And, you know, you know, Kenny Loggins plays in the distance.

00:42:40.360 Like, it's just one of those things where it's like, what, what does this actually look

00:42:43.800 like to you?

00:42:44.140 And none of them have an actual path to victory.

00:42:47.040 None of them actually understand what it takes.

00:42:49.680 And I, like you, am very encouraged at the fact that there are changes that take state,

00:42:53.720 you know, place the state level.

00:42:54.840 A lot of people, you know, Trump, DeSantis, the showdown, you know, all this kind of thing.

00:42:58.800 I've said many times as a floor resident and a DeSantis fan, I think Ron DeSantis is best

00:43:04.400 served in the country is best served by him staying in Florida.

00:43:07.120 He is making real changes and real gains.

00:43:10.440 He's showing what leadership looks like at a local level.

00:43:14.880 I think that there's way more to be done by building these influences and these networks

00:43:19.860 inside states and showing what can be done in that arena rather than just throwing someone

00:43:25.700 into a grinder, which is exactly what a battle with Trump would be.

00:43:30.160 And then having their talents wasted, even if they possibly win once they're wounded and

00:43:35.060 they're sitting at the federal level.

00:43:36.200 I just think it's way more powerful.

00:43:38.080 I would take 10 Ron DeSantis governors over owning the House and the Senate with the weak

00:43:45.220 GOP types we have today, right?

00:43:47.620 I just think that that would be way more powerful.

00:43:49.840 And so I'm one of these people who does not have a lot of faith in the ability of the national

00:43:55.920 GOP to kind of get this stuff done.

00:43:58.180 But I do think that guys like Rufo working with guys like DeSantis are showing that change

00:44:04.540 can be affected on these state levels.

00:44:07.100 There is the federal rot has not spread so entirely to some of these areas and they can

00:44:13.800 create a blueprint for people who do want to build actual change, show what real opposition

00:44:19.800 to wokeness looks like.

00:44:20.760 It's not cracking some jokes on your late night comedy show or, you know, talk about

00:44:26.000 how we got to get rid of this because we won't be able to invade Russia if we don't, you 0.95

00:44:30.300 know, dial down on some of this wokeness.

00:44:33.060 It's getting into these institutions when all of your institutions have been captured by

00:44:37.800 progressives.

00:44:38.380 Like you said, the only thing that the only option you have is to completely replace these

00:44:43.360 things with something that is better, that completely removes the ability of progressives

00:44:49.400 to control all of these levers of power.

00:44:51.700 And I think that happens much more effectively with operatives like Rufo working at a more

00:44:57.700 local level.

00:44:59.600 Absolutely.

00:45:00.280 And we've been given in the last really few months a few examples of regime change kind

00:45:06.360 of at the microcosmic level, right, at the smaller version, not at the national level,

00:45:10.480 of course.

00:45:10.900 And one of them was Twitter, right?

00:45:13.280 That's kind of the private sector.

00:45:14.580 There's some parallels to, you know, the government and so forth, how you can, you know, fire a

00:45:19.740 lot of the diversity, you know, hires and whatever else and actually get like a company that runs

00:45:24.360 better.

00:45:25.020 And we're kind of seeing there are many lessons to be learned for people who are interested

00:45:30.120 in studying them.

00:45:31.600 The lessons is, you know, hostile takeover and seeing these things play out.

00:45:36.640 We're seeing that with Rufo as well.

00:45:38.640 And one important thing to keep in mind is there's this kind of idea.

00:45:42.740 I think I think Theron Beattie tweeted this out.

00:45:44.880 He had a very good article on revolver.news talking about everything that Rufo did and

00:45:49.720 why it's significant.

00:45:51.020 One important thing to keep in mind is there's often the idea of the long march through the

00:45:55.420 institutions.

00:45:55.960 The idea that you're just going to get conservatives and, you know, we're all going to go get into

00:46:01.640 academia and we're going to slowly take it over.

00:46:03.720 Well, that is what the left did.

00:46:05.640 And you can learn some things from studying how the left took over our country.

00:46:10.180 But it's important that we can't cargo cult the left.

00:46:12.860 We have to keep in mind that the the situation when the the doors were almost why basically

00:46:18.220 wide open for the left back in the in the 60s.

00:46:21.580 And you could argue that even, you know, there was a quiet top level elite revolution that had

00:46:26.640 taken place in the preceding decades.

00:46:27.900 But the important thing to keep in mind is that at Twitter with Elon Musk and also at

00:46:33.360 the college down in in Sarasota, Florida with with Chris Rufo, there's it was kind of like

00:46:39.240 one fell swoop.

00:46:40.320 I think Jarvan refers to that as like a decapitation strike.

00:46:42.700 It's not this wasn't, you know, Christopher Rufo like worked his way up.

00:46:46.520 He like got a low level job using a fake name or something.

00:46:49.660 And now he's running it.

00:46:51.220 And he came out as Chris Rufo.

00:46:52.340 No, it was it was like high level action.

00:46:54.380 All of a sudden, you know, out with the old in with the new.

00:46:57.840 And I think there's a lesson to be learned there.

00:46:59.680 Again, decapitation strike sounds scary.

00:47:01.280 We're talking about like peaceful political change.

00:47:03.500 And I think I think that's probably going to be the way that we see institute that that

00:47:08.580 probably is going to be the more winning strategy for the right.

00:47:12.940 We can't just quietly take over the long march through the institutions.

00:47:16.540 No, I mean, I support people, you know, getting getting experience in like local politics

00:47:20.400 and whatever else.

00:47:21.000 I'm not saying like don't work within institutions at all.

00:47:24.400 But there is something to be said for the right and left being fundamentally different,

00:47:29.120 metaphysically different.

00:47:30.020 The left can just like eat away at things over time, whereas the right oftentimes just,

00:47:34.900 you know, maybe you need to do like one thing.

00:47:37.060 And that has resulted in a change in power.

00:47:40.080 So I just think it's very interesting to study some of these.

00:47:42.840 And hopefully there will be more.

00:47:44.100 I mean, that's the thing with it's harder for other people out there to just like buy

00:47:48.440 social media companies.

00:47:49.400 You need to have hundreds of billions of dollars.

00:47:52.220 So telling people, you know, just telling someone to go buy YouTube or something, well,

00:47:56.440 it would be nice, but we'll see.

00:47:58.680 But I do think that, you know, Rufo's model down there with that college more easily replicable.

00:48:05.140 Now, that isn't to say it was easy, but, you know, I think that could be replicated in

00:48:09.620 other states.

00:48:10.480 And I would like to see other states do that.

00:48:12.460 I would like to see others, red states, you know, Texas, some of these others that have

00:48:17.420 like decent governors and many patriotic political activists to see what's going on in Florida

00:48:23.080 and to do that.

00:48:24.420 And if we can do that all over the country, then, right, that's not the national level

00:48:28.100 restoration, but state resistance to leftism, to globalism, regardless of the outcome at

00:48:35.280 the federal level going forward is going to be very important.

00:48:37.700 Right.

00:48:38.420 So I think there are many, many lessons to be learned here, and hopefully other people

00:48:41.700 apply them in areas where you can do so.

00:48:45.120 Yeah, I think it's really important to point out the left, the metaphysical dynamic, the

00:48:49.420 difference there between left and right, because this is something that Yarvin talks about,

00:48:53.940 right?

00:48:54.380 He talks about how, you know, entropy and extropy are not the same thing.

00:48:58.980 And the left is entropic, right?

00:49:01.300 The left is able to win because it uses entryism to move into these institutions and slowly

00:49:08.280 erode their conservative nature over time, right?

00:49:13.200 They're able to pull things slowly.

00:49:15.360 Cthulhu swims slowly, but he always swims to the left.

00:49:18.580 This is kind of the nature of the left is that they disassemble, they break apart traditional

00:49:24.140 coalitions, and they reform and reinstitute hierarchies based on their ability to kind of offer

00:49:30.920 these things to people who otherwise might not be advantaged.

00:49:35.340 And so this is something that the left does very well.

00:49:38.860 The right doesn't really have that option.

00:49:41.060 And so the right needs to create suddenly.

00:49:44.100 It needs to take control of things in a more abrupt manner, as you were talking about.

00:49:48.520 And again, that can mean in a very simple thing like Rufo, you know, being, you know, 0.87

00:49:54.600 appointed in some level of influence inside this educational institution, right?

00:50:00.200 It can be something as simple as that.

00:50:02.040 But like you said, it happens suddenly.

00:50:03.780 It doesn't happen by slowly wearing away the foundations of leftism.

00:50:08.960 You're not going to get a bunch of, you know, influential 20-something conservative academics

00:50:14.560 into a college and slowly erode its leftism.

00:50:18.140 You take it over entirely.

00:50:20.260 That's how change comes in the rightward direction.

00:50:23.820 So I think that is really important.

00:50:25.120 Like you said, there's things we can learn from the left.

00:50:26.860 It's good to understand how things came to power, but obsessing about the way they did

00:50:32.460 things doesn't teach you how you can do things, how you can secure victories.

00:50:36.660 Understanding that, I think, is really essential.

00:50:39.280 Well, we are stacking up a decent amount of super chats here.

00:50:43.360 So I want to go ahead and get started on those here in a second.

00:50:46.480 But can you let people know where to find your stuff, Patrick?

00:50:49.640 Patrick, sure.

00:50:50.940 Well, if you go to at RestoreOrderUSA on Twitter, you can follow me back on Twitter.

00:50:56.560 Thank you, Elon Musk, for giving me a second life.

00:50:59.820 I was very unexpected, but it's been great.

00:51:02.560 And you can find my link tree there.

00:51:04.140 I do interviews with all sorts of people, many people you would recognize from Mr. McIntyre's

00:51:10.080 channel here.

00:51:11.120 So those are the main places to look for me.

00:51:13.280 Thank you.

00:51:14.260 Absolutely.

00:51:14.860 All right, guys, let's go ahead and go to these super chats real quick.

00:51:18.900 Please remember, guys, if you would like to listen to the show as a podcast, do remember,

00:51:23.860 of course, that it is now available on all your major podcast platforms.

00:51:27.560 So go check out the Orin McIntyre show on Apple, Spotify, any of these guys.

00:51:31.260 And when you do, just leave that rating or the review.

00:51:33.520 It really helps out with everything.

00:51:35.920 So CreeperWeirdo here for $5.

00:51:38.560 Thank you very much.

00:51:39.860 Says, you ever notice how quick Norwecons are so quick to give praise to the left comedians? 1.00

00:51:46.800 How do they not see how fake it is?

00:51:48.460 Yeah, this has been a particular issue for me.

00:51:51.280 I have railed against this multiple times.

00:51:54.280 You will very regularly see conservatives of very high stature run, you know, the cartwheel

00:51:59.960 into the fire for Bill Maher.

00:52:02.760 They'll just sprint towards any kind of criticism of Bill Maher from the left.

00:52:07.600 You know, you can almost see all the articles being queued up from all of your conservative

00:52:13.380 websites.

00:52:14.020 Bill Maher out there firing back against the woke left again.

00:52:17.080 But then when the average person gets canceled, nothing.

00:52:20.180 Right.

00:52:20.380 Like there's no there's no support for those people.

00:52:22.960 There's no pushback.

00:52:24.180 There's no voices.

00:52:25.020 It's all support for guys like Bill Maher and never anything for people.

00:52:30.340 Average people are getting their lives destroyed.

00:52:31.940 And I've talked about this phenomenon many times.

00:52:34.300 You know, the right cancels to the left reaches out to its left and cancels to its right.

00:52:39.820 And the right reaches out to its left and cancels to its right, which should tell you something

00:52:44.020 about our political dynamic in the United States.

00:52:46.620 The conservatives know it's safe to rush out and secure the support of someone like

00:52:51.860 Bill Maher because he's never really going to get canceled.

00:52:54.460 He's never really going to end up losing.

00:52:56.840 Yeah, he lost a TV show way back when, but he bounced right back.

00:53:00.200 Like there's never really going to be any kind of consequences for standing up for a guy

00:53:04.620 like that.

00:53:05.460 But standing up for someone who might be a little bit to your right, that's way more dangerous.

00:53:09.820 Because at any moment, you could be linked to this person.

00:53:13.840 All of a sudden, you're the one getting canceled.

00:53:15.600 So I think there's a lot of things at play in this dynamic.

00:53:19.180 But I think that the fact that our culture is very quick to always extend infinite chances

00:53:25.200 to left and immediately cancel people to the right is a big part of it.

00:53:32.120 Let's see here.

00:53:34.400 We've got Conquest Theory.

00:53:36.620 I think he put in two.

00:53:37.760 Thank you very much, sir, for your donation there.

00:53:40.560 And then a question from Conquest Theory.

00:53:43.060 $10.

00:53:43.800 Thank you.

00:53:44.540 One of the hardest aspects of pushing back against wokeism is being branded authoritarian

00:53:49.480 by those who portray liberalism as a value neutral.

00:53:53.040 Even people on the right still don't know what time it is.

00:53:55.940 Yeah, that is also really essential, right?

00:53:58.440 So often people assume that the imposition of left-wing values is the neutral position, right?

00:54:04.420 It is the null hypothesis.

00:54:06.320 So if you are pushing back against the left-wing, you must be authoritarian.

00:54:11.800 Now, the left is, of course, canceling any and everyone it can.

00:54:14.360 It's destroying anyone who speaks out against them.

00:54:16.960 They're literally putting people like the FBI on people who protest, who are Christian,

00:54:22.640 or sending them after parents who don't want to see transgenderism pushed in their school.

00:54:26.900 So you, but this is not authoritarianism, right?

00:54:31.040 Authoritarianism only arises when the right wants to stop the excesses of the left, never

00:54:36.140 when the left is going after just average people on the right.

00:54:41.360 But feel free to jump in if you have anything to say, Patrick.

00:54:45.020 Sure.

00:54:45.340 Well, I think in your work, you cover the, you know, shatter the illusion of value neutrality

00:54:50.560 very well.

00:54:51.520 It's really important to stress is that it just really never existed.

00:54:54.880 There's this just kind of like fake history where, you know, America prior to wokeness

00:55:00.820 was value neutral.

00:55:02.000 No, we had anti-sodomy laws on the book.

00:55:05.380 Like, I remember them being repealed, like at some point in my lifetime.

00:55:09.860 Now, I'm not saying that like those, we need to bring those back right away.

00:55:12.900 Otherwise, the country is going to be destroyed.

00:55:14.560 But I mean, it's worth pointing out that, yeah, someone's values always will reign.

00:55:18.820 And the people who are trying to tell you that what they support is value neutral, like

00:55:22.860 that is, that is a political act.

00:55:25.240 That is a political act masquerading as, as one being neutral.

00:55:28.320 So oftentimes, once you peel away the invocations of neutrality, of humanity, of, of democracy,

00:55:34.920 whatever, there's like a very shrewd and cunning political agenda there.

00:55:39.880 So it's, yeah, conservatives who are kind of rubes who think, well, well, if we do anything

00:55:43.840 with the state, then the other side's going to do it to us.

00:55:45.880 Well, they're doing it to you anyways.

00:55:47.200 So, um, yeah, there's, there's, if you just look at what made the West great to begin

00:55:52.020 with, it's, there's always been, you know, respect for traditional Western religion, right?

00:55:57.120 Christianity, patriarchy, things of this nature.

00:56:00.180 So, you know, we're not advocating for like extreme right-wing authoritarianism, just that,

00:56:05.360 you know, it should be illegal to, uh, you know, do child drag shows or whatever form 0.99

00:56:10.840 of insanity.

00:56:11.700 Being opposed to that makes you sane.

00:56:13.380 It does not make you an authoritarian.

00:56:14.640 So yeah, just telling people, please stop feeding children.

00:56:17.820 Puberty blockers is, is not authoritarian.

00:56:19.540 It's just, it's just the sensible center.

00:56:21.740 It's what sensible people would do, right?

00:56:24.440 And I like to explain to people that the nineties is a weird apex, right?

00:56:28.400 People who live through, you know, I'm a child, I was born in the eighties, but I'm a child

00:56:31.820 of the nineties.

00:56:32.960 A lot of people want to get back to the nineties.

00:56:35.080 That's the moment that that's the golden era.

00:56:37.320 Everybody was, was making money and then you could do whatever you wanted.

00:56:41.220 But I try to explain to people that there, this was a cultural apex.

00:56:44.720 You had the, you know, the, the right was, or, or conservative tourism or whatever you

00:56:49.160 want to call it, traditional values, whatever they were in control for a very long time,

00:56:53.620 but the left was ascendant.

00:56:54.960 It's moving up and up.

00:56:55.920 And then for just a very moment there in the nineties, it looked like the ball was just

00:57:02.120 hanging in the middle, right?

00:57:03.460 The ball had been thrown up.

00:57:04.460 It's hanging in the air.

00:57:05.180 And people who saw it in the air were like, oh, the ball just always hangs in the air.

00:57:08.140 It just hovers in the air forever.

00:57:09.480 And then it started falling down the other direction and the left became completely in

00:57:13.140 charge.

00:57:13.560 And they're always like, what happened?

00:57:14.780 I thought we were neutral.

00:57:15.740 It's like, no, you were never neutral.

00:57:17.460 You just viewed a small window of time in which there was this cultural battle going on

00:57:22.660 where like one side didn't have total domination over the other.

00:57:26.160 And you viewed that as the natural state of culture throughout history, but it's not at

00:57:31.060 all that that's never the case.

00:57:32.300 That's never how any culture has ever worked.

00:57:33.980 And it's certainly not how the culture of the United States has worked.

00:57:36.140 If you have any interest in the actual traditions, the actual values of the United States, the

00:57:41.260 actual return or just continuance of something that used to be uniquely American, you can't

00:57:48.420 pretend like the nineties is the reflection of kind of how that works.

00:57:52.100 You have to understand that not all assertions of traditional values are somehow authoritarian. 0.92

00:57:57.820 That's exactly ridiculous. 0.94

00:58:00.860 Creeper weirdo here for $5 again. 0.69

00:58:03.760 Thank you very much.

00:58:04.920 When your culture is so far to the left, any move to the right feel too fast.

00:58:09.460 Yeah.

00:58:09.700 I mean, that's exactly right.

00:58:11.120 That's why the left just screams, you know, they just absolutely lose their mind the minute

00:58:16.360 people provide even the most mild pushback, right?

00:58:19.440 Like I made this point about Trump.

00:58:22.100 You know, all credit to Trump is not a strike against him, but Trump is a blue dog Democrat, 0.51

00:58:26.080 right?

00:58:26.460 He's, he's culturally liberal on a lot of things.

00:58:29.520 He has a, but he has a lot of good instincts when it comes to like protectionism and, and

00:58:33.840 opposing foreign wars or forever wars and these kinds of things.

00:58:37.520 And unfortunately at this point, that's about as far right as the country can go.

00:58:41.560 Right.

00:58:42.000 And then that, that, that is considered radically right wing at this point, being, being a blue 0.95

00:58:47.640 dog Democrat is as, as radical as people can be on the right wing at this point.

00:58:51.960 And so any push beyond that, right?

00:58:54.840 When you, when you've painted Trump as the return of the German painter, anything beyond

00:58:59.200 Trump just seems absolutely insane.

00:59:00.760 But of course, Trump is very mild and moderate in comparison to a Republican party of just 0.81

00:59:06.420 a few decades ago.

00:59:07.560 And so I think it's really difficult for people to see that shift because it, you know, it

00:59:12.820 happens during their lifetime.

00:59:14.140 But if you look back with any historical context, you can see that in fact, uh, you know, we're

00:59:19.520 not, there's nothing again, crazy or radical by saying, maybe you should just ban child directions.

00:59:24.600 Like that's, that's a perfectly reasonable thing that would have been very obvious just a

00:59:28.920 few decades ago would have been, uh, taken as for granted without any pushback.

00:59:33.160 Do you remember, there was an article at some point during Trump's first and hopefully not

00:59:39.120 only, uh, term where it was in a mainstream publication.

00:59:42.440 It was like a major journalist who it was like, I, I, man, it's very vague.

00:59:46.720 Uh, it was either an article or a tweet, but basically saying that like, it's an insult to

00:59:52.080 Hitler to tie Trump to, so it was like some high profile journalist made this, this claim

00:59:57.340 that basically Trump was worse than Hitler.

00:59:59.840 Do you remember who that was?

01:00:00.720 I don't, but I remember, I do remember that article because of, because they literally

01:00:04.380 made the meme.

01:00:05.140 They did the meme.

01:00:06.300 Yeah.

01:00:06.780 And I mean, you did have people push back against that because even, you know, the average New

01:00:10.140 York times journalist, that's like not the standard line, but there are people out there

01:00:14.080 who felt like that really.

01:00:15.200 And that's just because to see like someone mildly right wing in, you know, doing things

01:00:20.540 against the left to them, it's like, you know, maybe it's, maybe it's more, you know,

01:00:25.920 present and it's like there in the moment.

01:00:28.040 And then, you know, it seemed like it was a sincere, uh, you know, expression of, of

01:00:32.560 emotion of sentiment there.

01:00:33.820 I mean, it's utter insanity, but.

01:00:35.580 Oh no, they believe it.

01:00:36.720 They believe it.

01:00:37.220 One hundred percent.

01:00:38.080 You have to, you have to, again, there are plenty of people who are motivated by the material

01:00:46.640 incentives, but they really buy into this stuff.

01:00:49.040 They, they, they are true believers and they, they really do have this, uh, this view of

01:00:55.240 history where Trump is the apex of, of, of, you know, that, that, uh, no form of rightism

01:01:00.980 was ever defeated.

01:01:01.880 No form of like fascism or anything were ever defeated at the end of the day.

01:01:05.360 Uh, they, they were just continued and now brought even more powerfully forward by people

01:01:10.520 like Trump.

01:01:11.040 And so, yeah, they can enter, they can, uh, entertain ideas like that, uh, without any

01:01:16.120 sense of irony.

01:01:16.800 Uh, absolutely.

01:01:18.620 Yeah.

01:01:19.020 So I'll do a brief little fact check here.

01:01:20.680 And it looks like Noam Chomsky, I believe, uh, said that he believes that Trump is the 0.55

01:01:24.480 worst criminal in human history.

01:01:26.220 And I think, I think people did press him on that.

01:01:28.260 Like, well, Stalin, Hitler, and I'm pretty sure he, he stuck to his guns there, which is

01:01:32.420 just like, this is the guy who's argued against the free trade, neoliberal policies and foreign

01:01:38.040 wars and whatever.

01:01:38.900 And really the, you know, some guy comes along who's like mildly socially conservative and

01:01:42.400 not in favor of mass immigration. 0.82

01:01:43.780 Now all of a sudden it's very silly, but it shows you how insane the vanguard of the left 0.91

01:01:49.720 is, right? 0.65

01:01:50.640 Like they'll push back against all this stuff.

01:01:52.500 They'll make all of these arguments.

01:01:53.580 And the minute someone on the right makes exactly the same arguments, they'll just declare

01:01:58.100 because at the end of the day, it's friend enemy all the way down.

01:02:00.580 And I will say, I'll take a moment to give credit where credit's due.

01:02:03.700 You do guys have guys like Jimmy Dore and you do have guys like Glenn Greenwald.

01:02:08.040 And we'll disagree on almost everything, but they, they do have the courage of their

01:02:12.640 convictions on this stuff.

01:02:13.580 They really did buy into this as the idea of the left.

01:02:17.740 Now they're wrong that that's what the left was, but they, but they at least had the courage

01:02:21.560 to break with that and in many ways paid a cost for it.

01:02:24.500 So I, I, I do want to, you know, give those guys a credit because there are people who,

01:02:29.520 who did hold those dues, but it is hilarious that guys like Chomsky who are supposed to be,

01:02:33.700 you know, just this, this intellectual vanguard, this radical left that, you know, that fight

01:02:38.760 against the establishment and are always pushing the left to go further.

01:02:42.340 The minute someone on the right says something similar to what they've been saying their entire

01:02:45.940 lives.

01:02:46.640 Oh, that guy's actually, uh, Hitler because, you know, of course he is. 0.93

01:02:50.660 That's all we see as enemy.

01:02:52.320 Yeah.

01:02:52.720 Uh, life of Brian here for $5.

01:02:56.780 Thank you, sir.

01:02:57.300 The IDW was a, uh, uh, has a span of opinion.

01:03:01.600 Bro Weinstein is probably the most sincere with Lindsay.

01:03:04.500 On the other hand, Harris is now off the spectrum.

01:03:06.940 Yeah, to be clear.

01:03:07.960 So that's, that's very fair, right?

01:03:09.420 There are, um, this was always a loose, loose coalition of thinkers.

01:03:14.360 There are people like Harris who dabbled their toe in and immediately lost their mind.

01:03:19.320 The minute Trump came around and they never really had that conviction very clearly from

01:03:23.500 the way that Harris has reacted saying, yeah, I believe in free speech in the marketplace

01:03:27.400 of ideas, but you have to ban Trump and it's okay to fabricate evidence to do so.

01:03:31.300 Two guys like Brett Weinstein, who, uh, you know, still would oppose many of maybe socially

01:03:38.960 conservative positions, but he does seem to have a general, he, you know, again, in his

01:03:44.620 defense did speak out a lot about the pandemic and related things that we can't talk about.

01:03:49.320 So much on YouTube, but, but he, he took big steps and big hits and suffered bans and

01:03:54.400 ostracization for many of those positions.

01:03:56.980 So it is fair to say that many of these people shouldn't be totally lumped in together because

01:04:01.340 there is, there is quite a bit of difference.

01:04:04.460 I want to be very clear for a second.

01:04:06.420 I'll just take a quick second to say this.

01:04:08.800 I don't really have an interest in going after people who are generally pulling in the same

01:04:19.600 direction, but the thing that will always, and every time set me off, the thing that I will

01:04:26.780 always stand up against is people who attempt to cancel people who should be on their side

01:04:33.520 because they don't agree with them in every way.

01:04:36.140 So when I see people like Lindsay, when I see people like Peterson, when I see many other

01:04:41.200 people on Twitter, jump on and say, oh, well, yeah, we agree against wokeness.

01:04:45.980 We're totally against this stuff.

01:04:46.980 We're a hundred percent against this stuff, but I see that you might be in a camp that I

01:04:50.580 don't like.

01:04:51.160 And so I'm going to go out of my way to cancel you, destroy you, slander you, because I don't

01:04:58.500 want, I want to make sure you're not in the coalition when we win.

01:05:03.100 I have a problem with those people and I will always push back against those people because

01:05:07.040 if they were telling the truth, if they were really only here for the opposition of wokeness

01:05:12.680 or whatever this stuff is, then they would be fine with saying, okay, well, we got to get

01:05:18.180 this job done, but they're not.

01:05:19.840 They're gatekeeping, they're policing.

01:05:22.060 They're oftentimes lying and smearing with the attempt to try to push people out of the

01:05:28.640 coalition so that they can reign supreme whenever they think they get themselves back to the

01:05:32.740 nineties.

01:05:33.340 That's when I have a problem.

01:05:34.540 I haven't seen a lot of that from Brett Weinstein.

01:05:36.280 Maybe he doesn't.

01:05:36.900 I haven't paid a lot of attention to him a long time, but for guys who don't have that propensity,

01:05:41.040 you'll never see me pushing back against them.

01:05:43.440 For people who do, that's when I have a problem.

01:05:46.020 Again, I benefited greatly from the work of Jordan Peterson.

01:05:49.300 I respect his intellect in many areas greatly.

01:05:52.900 That's why I'm so disappointed with what he's doing now.

01:05:56.020 I say these things from a position of appreciation for someone who I thought did really important

01:06:02.880 work.

01:06:03.440 And I want to see them back on that track doing the work that matters, not sniping at

01:06:07.900 people trying to cancel them or push them out when they try to do something that's valuable.

01:06:13.220 Right.

01:06:13.680 That, that, that's always when I have a problem.

01:06:15.660 That's always when you, I don't go out of my way to pick e-drama.

01:06:18.380 The only time you'll see me talking about people like this is specifically when they try to

01:06:23.620 cancel or hurt other people who are supposed to be pulling that direction.

01:06:27.760 But, but, uh, creeper weirdo here for $2.

01:06:32.140 Nineties kids are cringe.

01:06:33.480 That is all.

01:06:34.360 Well, as a nineties kid, I want to say thank you so much, sir.

01:06:37.420 Uh, I will remember all of my teenage mutant Ninja Turtles and double dragon NES cartridges.

01:06:42.860 Uh, but, uh, but I appreciate you calling my fond childhood memories, uh, uh, cringe.

01:06:47.640 I know one day all of that'll sound just as boomery as the Beatles do now.

01:06:51.780 So I'm, I'm really, I'm ready for that, uh, uh, for that to hurt, but all right, let's

01:06:57.340 see.

01:06:57.620 I think that was all of our super chats.

01:07:01.040 All right, guys.

01:07:01.900 So make sure you're checking out restoring order.

01:07:04.200 Make sure you're checking out, uh, Patrick stuff.

01:07:06.380 I want to thank him so much for coming on today.

01:07:08.900 Been a great discussion.

01:07:10.220 And I also want to say that if you, again, uh, it's your first time here, make sure that

01:07:15.560 you go ahead and subscribe to the channel.

01:07:17.040 Uh, if you have not go ahead and jump on and subscribe to the podcast as well.

01:07:22.720 And if you do so, go ahead and leave that rating and that review.

01:07:26.900 We really appreciate it.

01:07:28.420 Thanks for coming by everybody.

01:07:30.420 And as always, we will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - February 06, 2023

Performative Opposition to Wokeness ｜ Guest： Patrick Casey ｜ 2⧸6⧸23

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