The Auron MacIntyre Show - Populism and a Multipolar World ｜ Guest： Steve Turley ｜ 10⧸7⧸2024

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00:00:30.440 Hey, everybody. How's it going?

00:00:32.340 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.960 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:38.180 I'm known as a famous black pillar, but I have today what could be the happiest warrior on the right.

00:00:44.560 Joining me to discuss his new book is Dr. Steve Turley.

00:00:48.500 Thanks for coming on, man.

00:00:49.880 Oh, thank you, Warren. It's great.

00:00:51.360 Before the interview, I was telling you, I'm a longtime admirer of yours.

00:00:54.900 I love your political analysis, how you draw from sociology and cultural anthropology for some really deep insights.

00:01:02.720 And we were joking.

00:01:03.660 It's like, well, you get black-pilled, I get white-pilled.

00:01:06.440 But we often do it on the same research.

00:01:09.120 So it'll be interesting to chat.

00:01:10.620 That's great.

00:01:11.020 Yeah, I just got a hold of your book, so I haven't got to dive all the way in.

00:01:14.580 But when I was taking a look, I was shocked about the amount of overlap that we had there.

00:01:18.600 So I think we're going to have a great discussion today.

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00:02:53.520 So Dr. Turley, a lot of people may not be familiar with your work, but you've got a large YouTube channel, been doing very well.

00:03:02.260 You've got a lot of very interesting videos.

00:03:04.600 Could you explain to people who may not be familiar where you got your start?

00:03:07.820 How did you end up doing this?

00:03:08.780 Well, I was in academia for 20 years, a part-time university, and I was in a classical education for 18 of those years.

00:03:19.920 I did my doctorate research at Durham University where I came across this field of study known as post-secular studies.

00:03:28.440 So this is right at the height of the Obama era, so like 2008, 2009.

00:03:32.920 And I remember just being so fascinated by this field of study.

00:03:38.780 I mean, it literally covers everything from post-secular law, post-secular politics, post-secular urban development.

00:03:45.340 I mean, you name it, fashion, economics, and the like.

00:03:49.000 And they were basically arguing that the liberal, secular, globalist world was faltering and more and more populations returning to nation, culture, custom, tradition.

00:04:03.880 And little did not, I mean, I didn't take it very seriously, to be honest with you.

00:04:08.100 I think I was very black-pilled back then.

00:04:10.620 I was like, what are you talking about?

00:04:11.900 I think secularism is doing just great.

00:04:13.860 But then just a few years later, you know, well, first June 23rd of 2016, Brexit, which was for the first time in its history, the European Union started to get dismantled.

00:04:29.340 It was a terrible shock to it.

00:04:31.320 And then just a few months later, November 8th, when I think that we now know, thanks to the Twitter files, that the deep state was absolutely panicked with those back-to-back victories.

00:04:44.820 They were suddenly looking at a populism that was no longer peripheral.

00:04:49.300 This was a populism that was changing the world.

00:04:52.360 I had been arguing that leading up to it a bit.

00:04:55.300 But after Brexit, that's when I said, you know what, I talked to a colleague of mine who was in marketing.

00:05:02.240 I said, you know, I really would love to get online and make some commentary because I didn't think most conservative talk radio personalities really understood Trump.

00:05:17.220 And they didn't understand this nationalist populism that was coming.

00:05:21.700 They were still kind of, yeah, the ideological conservatives that you love, I noticed.

00:05:28.680 So I just said, you know, the NRO crowd, they just don't, I don't think they get it.

00:05:34.540 They're not understanding Trump from this post-secular nationalist, populist, traditionalist perspective.

00:05:40.720 He said, why don't you start a YouTube channel and do some commentary?

00:05:44.880 So I did.

00:05:45.540 I started it, you know, three people watched at a time.

00:05:49.400 But I made the argument that Trump would probably win this election and it'll be our Brexit election.

00:05:55.700 It's going to be our, the same dynamics, same political realignments among the working class.

00:06:01.280 But this was going to be our declaration of independence, our referendum from the globalist world, at least to a certain extent.

00:06:09.480 And so when he won, I got to gloat and I kept going and, and, and here we are.

00:06:15.160 I've since retired from the academy.

00:06:17.320 Thank God.

00:06:18.220 I was really not liking it anymore.

00:06:20.360 You could really feel the wokeness creeping there.

00:06:22.680 Um, I do miss, uh, the classical education world, the classical classroom.

00:06:27.720 That was always a wonderful experience, but now I'm a full-time, uh, into broadcasting and, uh, we have over a million, uh, subscribers on our YouTube channel.

00:06:36.880 So it's, it's, it's incredible.

00:06:38.260 Yeah, you definitely came around, around at exactly the right time.

00:06:41.760 And it is that very interesting shift.

00:06:44.160 As you're talking about, you had the Republican establishment that was looking for a candidate that checked all of the boxes.

00:06:50.740 You know, maybe if we can get Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz, just properly crafted, you know, they're the right ethnicity.

00:06:57.700 They've got the right, you know, background.

00:06:59.780 They've got the right talking points.

00:07:01.580 Yeah.

00:07:01.620 They, they know, they know these things down.

00:07:03.680 Right.

00:07:04.140 And then you have someone like Trump and he comes in and he's just the sledgehammer.

00:07:07.300 Right.

00:07:07.780 And you, people forget, I think how strange it was to have him on the stage at that time.

00:07:12.940 Was it 13 or 16 candidates or, you know, 16, 16.

00:07:16.840 Yeah.

00:07:17.340 Yeah.

00:07:17.660 16.

00:07:18.100 And Charles, Charles Krauthammer called him the, uh, uh, I'll Sharpton of the Republican party.

00:07:24.760 Yeah.

00:07:25.300 It really is a wild thing when you, when you think back into the way that he ended up just decimating that field because he came through in a moment that just, it blew up what people expected from politicians.

00:07:37.280 Then you said, no one understood that.

00:07:39.020 And I, I kept trying to explain this to people, uh, in, you know, in my personal life.

00:07:42.800 And then eventually, and now what is my professional life of just, you know, there is a huge shift in mentality.

00:07:50.000 People are seeing something that they've never seen before.

00:07:52.220 A lot of people in the Republican party complained about Trump saying, well, he's going to turn the party into a cult of personality.

00:07:58.220 He's going to destroy the Republican party as it, as it was.

00:08:01.860 And they didn't understand that that was the point.

00:08:04.000 That's what Trump was for people who hated them, who, who wanted real representation.

00:08:09.400 And Trump was the first chance for them to do that.

00:08:12.040 Right.

00:08:13.080 Right.

00:08:13.500 Oh yeah.

00:08:13.880 That's, that's brilliantly put.

00:08:15.500 That's, it's actually one of the, uh, the, the arguments I make, uh, in the book.

00:08:20.200 One of the reasons why I, I wrote it is because of this, this misconception that MAGA is somehow totally specific to Trump or even totally specific, uh, to America.

00:08:32.100 Um, and, uh, and, and the left hopes that, and the right fears that, you know, that, that, uh, were Trump to lose in November, MAGA would disappear.

00:08:42.220 And we'll just go back to a politics as usual.

00:08:45.260 And what I try to make, and you know, and by the way, that is somewhat understandable.

00:08:49.720 It is after all, make America great again, right?

00:08:52.580 It is his slogan, his hats, all that sort of thing.

00:08:56.300 But what's so fascinating here is that there are virtually identical movements to MAGA happening all over the world right now, particularly in Europe and Latin America.

00:09:08.920 Interestingly, particularly wherever globalism, liberal globalism is strongest, we're seeing the biggest backlashes.

00:09:16.260 So of course I, I brought up the Brexit, uh, movement, uh, with Brexit, we were seeing, again, literally the same political concerns.

00:09:25.040 Uh, they wanted to, uh, they wanted to go back, uh, to national sovereignty.

00:09:29.420 They were concerned about losing economic and, and, and cultural sovereignty, uh, just like we were.

00:09:35.000 Uh, in fact, uh, Boris Johnson at one point even said, uh, Brexit would make Britain great again.

00:09:40.680 Uh, Trump called himself Mr. Brexit right after it was passed.

00:09:44.900 He said he's going to do the same thing for us.

00:09:46.700 But we're seeing very similar dynamics with the rise of Marine Le Pen in France and, uh, Georgia Maloney, uh, and, uh, in Italy, Victor Orban wants MEGA to make Europe great again.

00:09:57.820 Um, we're seeing the populist revolts, the farmers revolts in, in, uh, the Netherlands and, uh, the yellow vest uprising in France.

00:10:05.620 And I, and I can assure you those farmers and those yellow vesters, they weren't uprising because they suddenly read Murray Rothbard or, or, or suddenly read, you know, road to serfdom or something. 1.00

00:10:16.480 This wasn't an idea.

00:10:17.620 This was a way of life that they saw being destroyed by a political class.

00:10:23.500 And so it just brought left, right, right, center all together as a pushback.

00:10:28.400 But again, we're seeing something very similar in Latin America with the recent election.

00:10:32.340 Naibu Kelly and El Salvador were just one with 85% landslide, uh, Javier Millet, who literally wants a MAGA, make Argentina, right?

00:10:41.500 Great again, um, uh, J.R. Bolsonaro, uh, in Brazil, uh, president there who's called the tropical Trump.

00:10:47.980 So the argument in the book is, is really that Trump and the MAGA movement are actually part of these much wider trends happening all over the world, uh, where more and more populations are rejecting liberal globalism.

00:11:04.140 They're rejecting their establishment, their center-right, center-left political establishment, and in turn embracing, uh, culture, custom, uh, tradition, and nation.

00:11:14.360 And so the book really tries to explore all the various ways in which the MAGA movement and Trump are unique expressions of this much more worldwide phenomenon.

00:11:25.580 Yeah. And that's what I found really interesting. It is, it is talking about MAGA, of course, it's talking about Trump and his, his leadership and the interest that many people have surrounding that, but it's also analyzing this larger global system, the events that are driving things, not just here in the United States, but across the world.

00:11:42.560 And why we're seeing this phenomenon with its own flavor and its own particularity as every, you know, every movement that would have that as their central core would need.

00:11:50.940 But, but, but we can see this consistent movement over and over again, the book again, that is called, uh, fight how Trump and the MAGA movement, MAGA movement are changing the world.

00:12:00.060 And, you know, the first thing I, as you're talking about this, the first thing that jumps to mind is Samuel Huntington's clash of civilizations, because in that book, he talks about how basically we had the world divided into these two ideological empires.

00:12:14.520 You had the Soviet Union and then you had liberal democracy and that was it. Everybody had to change their nation, their system, their way of life and fit into one of these two boxes. 0.85

00:12:26.020 And while guys like Francis Fukuyama said, well, this is the end of history, you know, the Soviets lost America one history is over.

00:12:33.500 And now it's all just going to be kind of this liberal paradigm globally. Huntington said, no, actually what you're seeing is that these movements are come, are turning nationalistic.

00:12:43.440 They're trying to find ways to return, as you say, back to these traditions, these ideas.

00:12:48.480 And he said, the biggest question is going to be, who are we? And I thought that was a very interesting thing because you, you kind of touch on this from a different area of these different movements, trying to rediscover these regional identities, these civilizational identities, these understandings of themselves in a post-liberal world.

00:13:07.620 Yes. Yes. Yeah. That, that was really, that was a wonderful summation. Um, I, I, I think you just nailed it. Um, I think what, uh, we're seeing today.

00:13:18.480 Is sort of the inevitability of identity politics. Now we tend to think about identity politics only on the left. Right. But I, I, I would, I would, I would surmise, I would put for your, for your consideration that, uh, that's, that's the establishment's way of trying to control identity politics.

00:13:38.160 So they'll, they'll have some identities that they allow for. They're all on the left, of course. But if you're, you know, uh, Christian nationalists, right, that's the new scare today. If you're that, oh, no, no, no, no, you can't have that. But if you're a BLM nationalist, no problem. Of course you've been oppressed. That's of course what you're going to say. You're going to, you're going to go towards. No, I think identity is at the heart of the new 21st century politics. And that's, and you got it exactly. That's Sam Huntington of Harvard's thesis. Um, 0.66

00:14:08.160 and basically, and he didn't even, you know, he, I don't even think he lived long enough to actually see all of this, uh, uh, come about. I forget when he dawned, maybe 2010 or so. I'm forgetting. Um, but what globalism does is it, it, it disembeds time and space in such a way where our politics are wrenched away from the local and it's reallocated in the hands of the managerial elite, a managerial class, your audience.

00:14:38.160 knows this, I'm sure like the back of their hands. And so we, this is the biggest complaint with Brexit. This is the big complaint right now among the, the populist movements going on all throughout Europe. Back in 2000, only 4% of the EU seats. So the seats in, in Brussels, the, uh, European union parliament, only about 4% were occupied by a populist today. It's nearly 30%. They've grown astronomically in just 20 years.

00:15:04.160 years. And one of, one of the reasons for that is because populations are sick and tired of seeing political and economic decision-making taken away from the local and reallocated in these translocal, transnational centers of power where more and more power is accumulating in the hands of less and less people.

00:15:24.160 So it's something we could talk about, uh, uh, Joel Chapman or Joel, uh, Kotkin of Chapman university calls the neo-feudalism, which is a wonderful description of the world that's forming today. So what's happening in this blowback and this backlash is that more and more populations are wrenching political and economic control out of the sky, out of the ethereal, ideological, uh, sky.

00:15:54.160 So if you bring your politics and your economy back to the local, inevitably it's going to take on the frames of reference of identity, region, religion, race, nation, culture, custom, tradition, because that's essentially what identity is. Identity is positionality.

00:16:12.160 My position, uh, in the world. And so, um, make America great again is a civic nationalist identity, uh, uh, movement, whereas BLM and La Raza are an ethnic or ethno nationalist identity movement. Again, some of those overlap like in Japan or something, you know, there's all kinds of configurations for that.

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00:17:04.600 But what we're seeing today is, I think, the inevitability of identity politics. And to their credit, to their credit, like the guys at National Review and so forth, the old guard, as it were, the old modern liberal Francis Fukuyama guard saw that. They saw, wait, this is just, this is just warmed over identity politics or cultural Marxism or, you know, that kind of stuff.

00:17:27.900 To which the response is, well, no, that's bringing it down to the level of absurdity. No, identity itself is the new paradigm. It's not, okay, we can keep the ideologies going, and then we just have to keep these identity politics off to the side and marginalized.

00:17:50.380 No, identity itself is disappearing. There's a whole reason for that, largely post-modernity. Nobody believes in metanarratives anymore. I mean, Francois Leotard found that out in 1979. This isn't news. We don't believe in this stuff anymore.

00:18:04.940 And so, politics inevitably is going local. And when it goes local, it takes on the frames of reference of identity. And so, identity politics is going to be the future, whether we like it or not.

00:18:17.820 And I think Francis Fukuyama was proven completely wrong. Sam Huntington was proven completely right.

00:18:25.340 Yeah, I think that's a really interesting and important way to put that, because a lot of people are very scared of what you just said there.

00:18:32.700 You said it in a very happy and jovial and convincing way, but those are bold statements that will get you in very serious trouble in most of mainstream right-wing politics right now.

00:18:45.160 In fact, I have people screaming at me constantly about how dangerous this is.

00:18:48.720 I was going to say, I think you found that out firsthand, yes.

00:18:52.240 But what you're saying is exactly right, and it echoes things like R. R. Reno said in The Return of the Strong Gods, another great book along these lines.

00:19:00.240 There's a lot of people converging on kind of this point, I think, simultaneously.

00:19:05.260 And it's great to have so many people coming together and understanding this.

00:19:08.540 But, you know, we're going to have identity. Identity is an inescapable part of functional human civilizations.

00:19:15.140 We've tried stripping it away, and that built a global empire, and it built, you know, some impressive things.

00:19:21.660 But we are also seeing the failure of these things, and we are seeing them coming apart, as you describe in the book.

00:19:27.440 And so the question is not, will you have identity? The question is, will you have healthy identities, or will you embrace something much darker?

00:19:36.740 Will you ignore this problem so long that those that have bad answers to this question are the ones answering it?

00:19:44.720 And I think that's really important for people like you to embrace and point to this, because if we don't, if we stay silent, if the right is too afraid to address this, then only the left gets to decide what identity is and what it means.

00:19:58.540 And then you get movements like BLM, and then you get all these really destructive ideas that come to dominate the discussion because the right has simply ceded the ground because they're really afraid of being called racist or something.

00:20:11.160 That's right. That's right. That's right. No, yeah, I think that it's brilliantly put.

00:20:16.940 Again, the whole racist rhetoric, this resentment politics is fully part of the globalist movement, as you're well aware.

00:20:29.320 It intentionally seeks to disenfranchise, particularly rural populations and traditionalist populations, and recast their cultures, customs, traditions as racist, bigoted, and so forth.

00:20:42.880 And then what do they do? They just simply bring in all of these ethno-nationalisms, very odd thing, to replace them.

00:20:49.620 So they don't want to have anything to do with the macro-ethno or religious nationalism that we would be most organically prone to, given our historical contingencies.

00:21:02.860 Instead, what are they doing? They're bringing these rabid, hate-filled ethno-nationalisms to the left.

00:21:09.160 So what's so interesting to me, whenever I see Trump or I'm seeing BLM or I'm seeing LeRoz, whatever it is, I'm seeing nationalisms coming in.

00:21:18.780 One way or the other, you're getting nationalisms. You're getting civilizationalisms.

00:21:22.880 Well, I thought it was so fascinating, one of the very first acts that the all-Muslim city council in Hamtramck, Michigan, passed, was banning the rainbow flag from flying on any public property. 0.87

00:21:40.840 And you just, now they're all Democrats, and you just saw the woke Democrat freak out.

00:21:46.720 I was watching some video from their city hall meeting, and they were freaking, they were accusing them of hate, and how could you do this, how could you do this?

00:21:57.240 But then you just saw one Muslim citizen after another, after another, and they are the majority now, in Hamtramck and in Dearborn.

00:22:04.120 They came up and said, that flag has no place on our buildings, on our public property, and that all-Muslim, all-Democrat city council unanimously voted to get rid of that flag.

00:22:18.520 So identity politics of the left is breaking up, it's falling apart, it has no future, because the only thing that unites all the different identities is victimhood.

00:22:32.120 So when one identity gets power, they're not victims anymore, so they don't, and when they become the majority, they don't need the other identities that don't have anything to do with each other, certainly historically.

00:22:46.520 So I think we're seeing it break up, actually the mayor of Hamtramck just endorsed Trump, interestingly enough, as obviously retribution for getting locked out of the Democrat convention.

00:22:56.220 So it's very, very fascinating, one way or another you're getting nationalism, one way or another you're getting identities, like you said, is it going to be a good one, or is it going to be faithful to our traditions, and our customs, and cultures that are fruitful, and beautiful, and good?

00:23:10.900 Or are we going to bring in some of these pseudo-identities that can cause a lot of trouble?

00:23:17.820 Yeah, that coalition, as you point out, is really only bound together by its unified attack on what has been kind of the Christian identity and the originally Anglo-Protestant understanding of the American experience.

00:23:32.580 And when that, as you say, when they win those victories, the reason to hold that coalition comes apart, and then you start seeing these fractures.

00:23:39.900 So I think that's a fascinating development, and I want to dive deeper into your analysis in the book.

00:23:45.240 But before we do, guys, let me tell you about Joe Biden's plan for the Supreme Court.

00:23:48.700 Don't kid yourself, the future of the Supreme Court is on the ballot.

00:23:51.440 The radical left want to eliminate the court's conservative majority by packing the Supreme Court with their own hand-picked justices to get the outcome that they want.

00:23:58.620 Even President Biden has gotten into the act by making reforming the court one of his final priorities before he leaves office.

00:24:05.320 But don't be fooled, their endgame really is to pack the court.

00:24:08.860 At First Liberty, they call this assault on the court what it really is, a Supreme Court coup.

00:24:13.660 The frightening thing is that come January, their plan could become our nation's reality.

00:24:18.460 Simple majority votes in the House and the Senate combined with the President's signature could turn their plan to pack the court into law.

00:24:25.360 That's why First Liberty is sounding the alarm, and they need you to join them.

00:24:29.940 If we take action together, if we unite our voices, we can put a stop to the radical left's plan to take control of the Supreme Court.

00:24:37.680 As the 2024 election approaches, we need to do three things.

00:24:41.640 Find out where each of your candidates stand on the radical issues of packing and purging the court.

00:24:46.500 Share what you learn with everyone, and do your civic duty by voting.

00:24:50.260 The future of the court, or preserving it as an independent judiciary, is literally in your hands.

00:24:55.140 If we lose the court, then we lose the country.

00:24:58.180 That's why First Liberty is taking action, and they need all of us to join them.

00:25:02.700 With patriots like you standing for the Supreme Court, we can safeguard the independence of the judiciary, just as the Founding Fathers intended.

00:25:09.720 And by saying no to the left's Supreme Court coup, we can secure the blessings of liberty and protect the future of our constitutional rights for our children and grandchildren.

00:25:18.120 Please go to SupremeCoup.com slash Oren.

00:25:21.680 That's SupremeCoup.com slash Oren to learn how you can help stop the radical left's takeover of the Supreme Court.

00:25:28.900 Now, in your book, you have a term, civilizational populism.

00:25:35.460 Can you unpack that for people so they can better understand?

00:25:38.940 How does that relate to kind of the, well, I was going to say popular definition of populism?

00:25:44.040 But there you go.

00:25:46.200 I like that.

00:25:46.780 That's right.

00:25:47.960 Nigel Farah said that.

00:25:49.320 There's one thing about populism that's true.

00:25:51.260 It's very popular.

00:25:52.120 Yeah, that's, civilizational populism is really key in the book because it is the wider international movement of which MAGA and Trump are specific American expressions.

00:26:06.020 So we can unpack it just in reverse order.

00:26:10.280 Populism, it's widely agreed, popularly agreed.

00:26:14.400 It is a, it's a realignment of the electorate around a vertical divide as opposed to a horizontal divide.

00:26:22.920 So when we think of politics, we generally think of horizontal divisions, left versus right, liberal versus conservative, Democrat versus Republican, labor versus Tory.

00:26:34.000 But populists literally stand that on its head.

00:26:37.940 For populists, they see the real divide as the people versus the permanent political class or the ruled versus the rulers or the ordinary citizen versus the oligarch.

00:26:53.360 So in 2010, Scott Rasmussen and Doug Shones, a Republican and Democrat pollster each, they published a book on the Tea Party movement called Mad as Hell.

00:27:03.940 It was a very good book because it's poll after poll, study after study, survey after survey.

00:27:08.780 And what they found, their conclusion in that book back in 2010, 14 years ago, was that they were already seeing this realignment where more and more people were saying, you know, there really isn't a difference between Republican and Democrat anymore.

00:27:23.320 I mean, it doesn't matter who I vote for.

00:27:25.100 We always just seem to get the same thing, just like you said at the beginning, just these formulaic, check the boxes kind of policies.

00:27:32.000 It just doesn't matter if it's left, right, conservative, doesn't matter.

00:27:37.140 So they felt like they were living more and more under like a, you know, a uniparty or a duopoly.

00:27:43.840 And and one that was that did not care about the people and their values, their interests and their concerns.

00:27:51.560 So that that's populism.

00:27:53.120 It's a it changes a horizontal divide to a more of a vertical divide.

00:27:57.020 But it doesn't tell you much about the movement other than the people really don't like the other people in charge.

00:28:02.780 You can have a communist populist movement.

00:28:05.120 You can have a right wing populist movement.

00:28:07.420 It doesn't tell you much about the, dare I say it, ideology or just the basic structure of the concern.

00:28:15.000 So populism is tends to be thought of as a thin ideology that needs to get some kind of thickness from outside of itself.

00:28:22.780 And so it usually every populist movement will marry another movement for that thickness to justify that and give a coherent rationale for that vertical divide.

00:28:36.720 And what we're seeing today, particularly with MAGA, is something called civilizationalism.

00:28:41.680 And what civilizationalists do is they interpret this vertical divide as a battle between a corrupt elite, oligarchical elite, and the people who are fighting to preserve their unique culture, custom and traditions.

00:29:02.240 And they see that elite, that corrupt elite, as selling out those unique cultures, customs and traditions for their own profit, for their own political gain.

00:29:14.280 So they see them selling out their national sovereignty through open borders.

00:29:19.360 They see them selling out their economic sovereignty through a global division of labor that sends manufacturing and industry overseas and then reallocates capital and finance around first world metropolitan, cosmopolitan centers, leaving rural populations highly unemployed.

00:29:41.000 And they're selling out our cultural sovereignty by recasting our cultures, customs and traditions as bigoted and racist and all kinds of phobic and all in the name of what's technically referred to as emancipatory politics, claiming that the individual person is a sovereign individual.

00:30:00.560 And traditions, and traditions, and traditions, customs, they're impediments to your own individual autonomy.

00:30:09.360 And so we're going to push those out of the public square.

00:30:14.140 And then lo and behold, you become who you're always meant to be, which is a worker and a consumer within this globalist system.

00:30:21.660 They don't tell you that part, but that's basically, they strip you down to you're just a worker and a consumer and literally nothing more.

00:30:28.400 And so civilizational populism is this massive backlash against liberal globalism.

00:30:36.580 That's why it's everywhere.

00:30:37.560 Wherever globalism is, you'll see that backlash.

00:30:40.980 And then the MAGA movement and Trump are unique American expression of that.

00:30:47.160 Yeah, it's very interesting.

00:30:48.200 As you point out, there's this global condition, which all of these different civilizations are trying to emerge from.

00:30:55.280 They recognize themselves as distinct entities.

00:30:57.700 They understand, as you point out, this problem of this overarching empire and the way that it's stripped away so many of the things that they desire as a civilization, as people with an identity and a future that they would like to realize.

00:31:10.040 But in each one of those different civilizations, because they are inherently, as you point out, nationalist or civilizational regional, they have to have what Gatano must have called a political formula.

00:31:21.100 They need to have a justifying ideology that kind of unifies that populist instinct and says, okay, but then how are we going to order ourselves to our particularity?

00:31:30.520 Now, I think a very interesting problem that faces the civilizational populism is that up to this point, systems of scale have won, right?

00:31:40.900 That's why liberalism dominated.

00:31:42.360 That's why the managerial elite rose to power.

00:31:44.660 Is that linking these supply lines, linking these propaganda outlets, linking these armed forces, compacts, all of this allowed them to operate at a scale that simply dwarfed and destroyed any competing ideology.

00:31:57.720 Now we're seeing the cracks in that show and we're seeing the supply lines falling apart.

00:32:02.160 We're seeing the military alliances weaken.

00:32:05.460 We're seeing many of the flaws of this, but simultaneously you have this problem where all of these civilizational populist movements are working kind of towards a similar goal, but in distinct in different ways.

00:32:17.920 Do you see a world in which these movements recognize each other as allies to some extent, but still are able to maintain their own distinct regional identities and interests?

00:32:30.620 Yeah, very interesting observation there.

00:33:00.620 So what's really animating all this stuff is that the securities that we were guaranteed in the nation-state project, border security, economic security, cultural security, they've all eroded under globalism.

00:33:14.500 So the backlash now is in a new nationalism, a new populism, a new traditionalism.

00:33:19.500 That's basically the structure of the backlashes.

00:33:23.260 And they're just finding that they have so much in common.

00:33:27.480 This is so interesting too, Oren, because in many ways it's not even nationalism per se.

00:33:37.220 This is why the civilizational paradigm is so important.

00:33:40.820 Because yes, it's expressed in the nation-state in a renewed civic or even ethnic nationalist sentiment.

00:33:49.140 No question.

00:33:50.920 But when you listen to the speeches of George Maloney or Marine Le Pen or Gert Wilders in the Netherlands or Yemi Ockeson in Sweden, a lot of people don't know that.

00:34:02.280 Sweden actually has a nationalist populist government right now.

00:34:05.280 The most liberal country in all of Europe has a far-right coalition government with their center right.

00:34:11.520 It's pretty amazing.

00:34:11.980 Importing the entire third world will do that for you. 1.00

00:34:14.340 That's right.

00:34:16.400 I know.

00:34:16.920 I think that's right.

00:34:18.140 They were the highest per capita of any nation.

00:34:20.640 And they're just livid over it.

00:34:23.660 But when you listen to their speeches, they never complain about another nation.

00:34:31.160 So France doesn't complain about Spain.

00:34:35.540 Well, everybody might complain about France because of Macron, but that's a different story.

00:34:40.260 It's not France. 0.78

00:34:41.060 It's this guy that Macron is trying to run the whole ship and so on.

00:34:47.040 Spain isn't freaking out over Sweden.

00:34:50.180 The concerns aren't about another nation.

00:34:54.460 Even Brexit was not about another nation as the enemy.

00:34:59.700 What's the enemy?

00:35:01.720 And you just alluded to it right there.

00:35:03.980 What's the enemy?

00:35:04.780 It is this mass migration from a culture, from a civilization, totally foreign from our own. 0.98

00:35:14.580 Our own unique civilizational identity is at risk.

00:35:20.900 And that's bringing together all the nationalist populace.

00:35:23.960 Because the concern is not so much nationalist, though that's the expression of this movement.

00:35:29.940 The concern is civilizationalist.

00:35:32.520 It's not a nation.

00:35:33.920 It's a civilization.

00:35:35.520 Exactly, exactly what Sam Huntington had predicted.

00:35:40.740 Well, I want to dive deeper into this and especially how it touches on multipolarity.

00:35:44.820 But before we do, guys, let me tell you a little bit about ISI.

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00:35:50.600 They're actively undermining it.

00:35:51.980 And we can't let them get away with it.

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00:35:57.180 The Intercollegiate Studies Institute is here to help.

00:36:00.000 ISI offers programs and opportunities for conservative students across the country.

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00:36:19.320 the philosophical and political teachings that shaped and made Western civilization great.

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00:37:10.760 That's ISI.org.

00:37:13.740 Now, in the book, you discuss the topic of multi-polarity,

00:37:18.140 and this goes along with the Samuel Huntington Clash of Civilizations thesis.

00:37:23.960 Alexander Dugan has famously picked up this and run with it,

00:37:28.300 and obviously he has a very particular Russian-centric project.

00:37:31.720 Yeah, Eurasian, yeah, right.

00:37:33.020 Yeah, Eurasianism that he wants to forward there.

00:37:35.420 I find Dugan to be very helpful,

00:37:37.680 though I understand that ultimately he kind of hates the West in a way.

00:37:41.480 I think he wouldn't say that, but I've read enough Dugan to think that he probably does at this point.

00:37:48.500 A great nation.

00:37:49.660 Yeah, give it away.

00:37:51.300 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:37:52.240 Yeah, precisely.

00:37:53.080 Must be destroyed.

00:37:54.340 I mean, metaphorically, you know. 0.80

00:37:56.020 The American Empire, that's all right.

00:37:58.580 So to be clear to everybody, when I'm going to reference Dugan here,

00:38:02.560 I'm simply looking at some of the analysis.

00:38:04.180 I do understand ultimately his project is not pro the United States or any of these things.

00:38:09.420 But either way, the point is that, you know, his thesis, Dugan's thesis,

00:38:14.780 is the nation-state cannot defend itself against this world empire,

00:38:20.920 that ultimately you need those civilizational blocks that Huntington identified mainly based on religion.

00:38:27.380 That's what Huntington understood as kind of the binding of these blocks

00:38:31.680 and the defining area of each one of these blocks.

00:38:35.580 But ultimately that that would be what is necessary in order to create a region

00:38:41.360 that is in some way self-sufficient logistically and culturally and militarily.

00:38:46.200 You would have some of these core nations in civilizations,

00:38:49.620 but ultimately the civilizational block itself would be this.

00:38:53.600 And this is what introduces the kind of the multipolar understanding.

00:38:57.180 Again, previously we had this, you know, basically, you know, two poles in the world.

00:39:02.180 We had the Soviet and we had the Western democracies.

00:39:06.880 Now we kind of have this single homogenous understanding of, you know,

00:39:10.640 what should be and how the world should be ordered.

00:39:13.260 But do you see ultimately a way where we could move to a multipolar world

00:39:17.520 without America introducing a large amount of danger to its scenario?

00:39:22.040 Because that is what most people fear.

00:39:23.740 If we move to multipolarity, then America won't control the world anymore 0.79

00:39:26.880 and we'll be in a lot more danger because, you know,

00:39:29.200 people could be planning things that we can't stop

00:39:31.200 because they're somewhere that's in a different civilization

00:39:33.320 that has its own sovereign entity that we don't control.

00:39:36.980 Yeah, yeah.

00:39:38.140 I think that's partly, that doesn't partly,

00:39:42.220 I think that entirely explains the kind of repression that we're seeing now

00:39:48.280 domestically in many respects, the repression that our national security agencies

00:39:54.220 were inflicting on other countries around the world in the 50s, 60s, 70s.

00:39:58.420 And it just basically came home here and they're using the same tactics on us today.

00:40:03.300 It's interesting that it was the Republicans who passed the Patriot Act

00:40:08.060 that basically turned us into a surveillance state.

00:40:11.100 Now, who are the ones who are getting punished by it?

00:40:14.100 Who are in these J6 prisons right now? 0.98

00:40:16.520 They're basically Republicans.

00:40:17.800 So it's just the way history just unfolds is fascinating.

00:40:22.980 Now, I think it remains to be seen what's going to happen.

00:40:27.980 We obviously see there's a lot of carnage happening

00:40:30.780 with the rise of multipolarity with Ukraine right now.

00:40:35.160 The United States has made it clear they will not allow China 1.00

00:40:38.640 to assimilate Taiwan into its civilizational sphere.

00:40:42.540 So we're going to have to see.

00:40:44.040 We're going to have to see what this clash looks like.

00:40:46.240 It's pretty scary stuff.

00:40:47.540 But I do think you're right.

00:40:49.200 I think the powers that be that accumulated their power

00:40:53.640 during the age of ideology, where we were in this bipolar world,

00:40:59.040 Western liberalism versus Soviet communism,

00:41:01.980 when that world collapsed, they saw unipolarity as, you know,

00:41:05.960 just that end of history moment.

00:41:07.480 And they solidified and codified as much of their centralize,

00:41:11.600 as much of their power and affluence as possible.

00:41:14.880 And they have no interest in giving it up.

00:41:17.840 That's for sure.

00:41:18.840 And they will do whatever they need to do to make sure

00:41:21.240 there is no way this age of identity rises again.

00:41:25.300 Well, and I think they're damaged, though,

00:41:29.980 in their ability to project this power,

00:41:31.840 because as you point out, there's obviously horrific things

00:41:35.040 happening in the war between Ukraine and Russia.

00:41:37.720 But ultimately, you know, Joe Biden said,

00:41:40.700 oh, we're just going to pull this guy's, you know,

00:41:43.280 financial assets and it'll be over in six months,

00:41:46.220 which is the classic, you know, just get into a war.

00:41:48.900 It'll be fine.

00:41:50.060 It will be home in six months.

00:41:51.400 A flat in Putin.

00:41:52.280 That's right.

00:41:53.000 Yeah, precisely.

00:41:54.700 Exactly.

00:41:55.700 And so that was the way it was sold to people.

00:41:58.660 But it quickly became clear that actually

00:42:00.580 the United States can't project that kind of power.

00:42:03.880 People are more than willing to actually go ahead

00:42:06.920 and default to some other arrangement with Russia or others.

00:42:11.140 We saw that now, even though the United States

00:42:14.400 and many other European nations have greatly depleted

00:42:16.700 their munition supplies in the attempt to, you know,

00:42:19.820 basically run Russia out of people to fight

00:42:22.640 to the last Ukrainian, as unfortunately guys

00:42:25.120 like Mitch McConnell have basically said

00:42:26.780 that this has been a failure.

00:42:28.680 And it looks like Russia is ultimately going to secure 0.73

00:42:31.480 at least some percentage of Ukraine.

00:42:33.840 And when you have that kind of failure

00:42:35.520 and then you look at what's happening domestically,

00:42:37.680 I mean, I am literally sitting in an area

00:42:40.320 that was devastated by a hurricane two years ago.

00:42:42.780 We've got another record-breaking hurricane

00:42:45.560 bearing down on us right now.

00:42:47.620 The federal government has made it clear that they drained

00:42:50.200 the FEMA disaster funds so that they can, you know,

00:42:54.320 establish different immigrant populations

00:42:57.480 across the United States, buy them homes,

00:42:59.440 buy them food, all these things.

00:43:00.740 We know we're sending money to like Lebanon 1.00

00:43:02.440 and all these other places.

00:43:04.080 I mean, really, how can the United States government

00:43:06.320 continue to generate support necessary for foreign wars

00:43:10.720 and the maintenance of empires

00:43:11.860 while we're in this kind of catastrophe?

00:43:14.520 Oh, I'm with you.

00:43:15.980 And again, that's one of the reasons

00:43:17.120 why I tend to be ultimately white-pilled

00:43:19.680 in all of this, plus together with the drugs I take

00:43:24.180 and the alcohol I consumed before.

00:43:26.080 No.

00:43:28.580 There is a, what's her name?

00:43:31.140 Amanda Newhouse of Tablet Magazine

00:43:33.840 calls our time, or calls our establishment brokenist.

00:43:40.080 We're living in a time of radical brokenism,

00:43:45.160 and everyone sees it.

00:43:47.120 And so one of the reasons why you're seeing this RFK,

00:43:50.860 Shanahan, Tulsi Gabbard realignment with Trump,

00:43:56.160 and not just kind of this populist realignment,

00:44:00.000 but also a new elite forming with the tech right,

00:44:03.640 so the Peter Thiels, the Elon Musks, J.D. Vance is part of that,

00:44:09.300 Vivek is part of that,

00:44:11.200 where now it's kind of hip in Silicon Valley

00:44:14.180 to be right-wing.

00:44:15.360 Now, even Mark Zuckerberg's saying,

00:44:16.840 hey, I'm libertarian now.

00:44:17.980 I don't have anything to do with this Democrat Party.

00:44:20.220 So we're seeing this-

00:44:20.840 Yeah, Dresen, Sachs, all these people, yeah.

00:44:22.500 Yeah, it's really interesting stuff happening.

00:44:25.040 And Amanda's argument is basically because,

00:44:30.640 again, it's not because there are ideologues per se,

00:44:33.640 it's because they see exactly what you just saw,

00:44:37.360 an establishment that is broken.

00:44:39.740 And so the two, again, kind of the two politics

00:44:42.160 that's forming, and it's hard to even call this horizontal,

00:44:45.780 the two politics, or it's more vertical,

00:44:47.660 the two politics that are forming are brokenists,

00:44:50.520 those who recognize that the establishment

00:44:53.140 is beyond repair, and it is going to have to go

00:44:56.060 through a massive overhaul, hence why Robert Kennedy

00:45:00.380 coming in, and it's just one of the biggest,

00:45:03.780 or Elon Musk and a government efficiency panel,

00:45:09.200 they're just freaking out over just the prospect

00:45:11.640 of either one of those.

00:45:12.800 Imagine Robert Kennedy overseeing the CIA.

00:45:15.420 I mean, my heavens.

00:45:16.320 So you've got the brokenness on the one side,

00:45:19.400 and then you've got what she calls the status quoists. 1.00

00:45:22.200 And the status quo is they recognize it's broken, too.

00:45:26.420 They see it.

00:45:27.600 I mean, look at the way Kamala's running her campaign. 1.00

00:45:30.280 She's running away from her own three-and-a-half-year record.

00:45:34.840 They recognize it's all broken,

00:45:36.660 but they still trust the establishment,

00:45:40.940 our legacy media, our academia,

00:45:44.240 our bureaucracies.

00:45:45.820 They still trust that that establishment

00:45:48.520 can find the answers to fix the problems they've created.

00:45:52.880 So you basically, that's the argument.

00:45:55.580 And then to kind of bring it all full circle,

00:45:57.580 what we have to understand is other countries,

00:45:59.660 other regions aren't having this problem.

00:46:01.960 They may have at one point,

00:46:03.740 there's a temporal frame called post-normality

00:46:11.900 that sees our time as an interregnum,

00:46:14.760 like Gramsci would say.

00:46:16.200 It's an interim period between the end of an old era

00:46:19.140 and the beginning of a new era.

00:46:21.280 Certainly, Yeltsin was that for Russia in the 1990s.

00:46:26.560 But you saw starting in the 2000s,

00:46:29.520 Putin, and you really see it explicitly in 2012

00:46:32.660 when he runs for a third term,

00:46:35.020 Putin makes it absolutely explicit.

00:46:38.020 Russian civilization is rising

00:46:40.840 and they are going to be a core

00:46:42.880 for this larger orthosphere.

00:46:46.920 President Xi makes more references to Confucianism

00:46:51.400 than he does to communism.

00:46:52.800 So they're going back to their traditions and customs

00:46:56.020 as they see the CCP as a particular modern embodiment

00:47:01.100 of classical Confucian and Taoist principles.

00:47:04.520 You're seeing it in India 1.00

00:47:06.180 with the rise of Narendra Modi and the BJP,

00:47:08.680 the Bharatiya Janata Party,

00:47:10.260 the Hindu Nationalist Party,

00:47:11.620 the largest, by far largest nationalist,

00:47:14.840 largest Democrat party in the world.

00:47:17.880 They're thoroughly Hindu nationalists.

00:47:19.580 India went 20 years without a landslide,

00:47:24.120 when 20 years the Indian Congress

00:47:26.060 could never get a full majority.

00:47:28.800 They always had to coalition with other parties.

00:47:31.540 And when the BJP ran as a thoroughly nationalist Hindu party

00:47:36.540 to institute Hindutwa,

00:47:38.040 which is, for lack of a better term,

00:47:39.700 I've actually asked a Hindu this.

00:47:41.140 And he said, yeah, this is a good description.

00:47:42.880 It's, for lack of a better term,

00:47:43.880 it's basically like a Hindu version

00:47:47.040 of Sharia law in Islam.

00:47:52.240 They ran on that platform

00:47:54.060 and they won almost two-thirds of seats.

00:47:56.800 It was the biggest landslide victory

00:47:58.480 ever seen in the history of democracy.

00:48:00.820 And they've just won in the next two elections.

00:48:04.500 They're all saying the same thing.

00:48:06.720 In order to stand up against this broken globalism,

00:48:11.020 we are going to have to return to civilization.

00:48:13.380 Tiny little nation,

00:48:14.500 micro nations ain't going to do it. 1.00

00:48:16.460 They're just not going to do it.

00:48:18.080 Lichtenstein, I love Lichtenstein,

00:48:19.780 but you're not going to stand up against this,

00:48:23.560 like you're saying,

00:48:24.320 this massive,

00:48:25.600 the most scaled political and economic movement

00:48:29.500 in human history.

00:48:31.420 Civilizations are going to have to rise up.

00:48:33.120 A unipolar world's going to have to turn

00:48:34.720 into a multipolar world.

00:48:36.600 And Russia proved it's happening. 0.87

00:48:38.740 Russia is now the single most sanctioned nation

00:48:41.920 on the planet.

00:48:43.020 They surpassed Iran for that. 0.99

00:48:45.780 And yet their economy is booming.

00:48:47.740 The ruble was the number one currency in 2023.

00:48:52.740 And they're booming.

00:48:54.280 Why?

00:48:54.600 Because they reoriented their economy to China.

00:48:57.180 And China has paralleled everything we do here.

00:49:00.520 They have a parallel SWIFT called KIPPS.

00:49:02.860 They have parallel MasterCard and visas

00:49:05.600 called UnionPay,

00:49:07.020 which are actually bigger.

00:49:07.820 They have more of the market

00:49:09.080 than MasterCard and visa.

00:49:11.820 And of course,

00:49:13.140 Russia isn't a finance-based economy like we are.

00:49:16.680 They're a commodities-based economy.

00:49:18.740 So, and you can accumulate all the finance you want.

00:49:22.340 It ain't going to keep you warm in the winter.

00:49:23.860 And it's not going to keep your belly full,

00:49:26.820 but food and fuel will do that.

00:49:28.940 And so the world is changing,

00:49:31.040 whether the bullies in Brussels,

00:49:32.860 the demons in Davos,

00:49:33.960 or the dolts in DC want it to.

00:49:35.540 The question is what kind of damage

00:49:37.220 are they going to do in response?

00:49:39.540 Yeah, the idea that you can just rack up

00:49:41.400 infinite, meaningless zeros

00:49:42.800 and use that to exchange it for hard goods

00:49:46.000 that actually do things like,

00:49:47.260 I don't know,

00:49:47.920 get you through a pandemic or win a war.

00:49:50.660 Those, you know,

00:49:51.500 it turns out that actually you can't do that

00:49:53.380 when people recognize

00:49:54.180 that they have civilizational interests.

00:49:56.460 Maybe I can't trade infinitely with China 0.95

00:49:59.200 with fake money

00:50:00.040 because they recognize ultimately

00:50:01.360 that they want to win,

00:50:03.020 that they want to survive

00:50:04.280 and they're going to hold on to the good stuff.

00:50:06.620 They're going to protect themselves first.

00:50:09.060 And that's really what's so important

00:50:10.840 about a movement like Trump's.

00:50:12.200 You know,

00:50:12.340 all of the classical economists get angry

00:50:15.400 about his tariffs

00:50:16.340 and his trade plans and these things,

00:50:17.820 but ultimately Trump recognizes

00:50:19.580 that maybe making things

00:50:21.260 in the United States matters.

00:50:22.660 Maybe reshoring these things

00:50:24.140 is more important than getting

00:50:26.400 the most efficient production of them,

00:50:29.100 that actually having the ability

00:50:30.680 to make munitions

00:50:32.860 and make antibiotics

00:50:34.000 and these things on your own shores.

00:50:36.180 Have a military that's running on hardware

00:50:38.420 that they built

00:50:39.220 and not their sworn enemy.

00:50:41.140 These are things that matter more

00:50:42.780 than accumulating,

00:50:44.040 like you said,

00:50:44.580 these financial wins

00:50:46.220 that ultimately can't do anything

00:50:47.940 once people realize

00:50:49.100 that that's not actually

00:50:50.200 what's driving the world.

00:50:52.120 Yeah, we could see the,

00:50:53.640 what is a woman confusion 1.00

00:50:55.880 manifesting itself

00:50:56.920 in all kinds of ways

00:50:58.540 in globalism.

00:50:59.860 And you,

00:51:00.120 I mean,

00:51:00.600 you just talked about

00:51:01.320 the horrific tragedy now

00:51:02.860 in Western North Carolina,

00:51:05.260 Eastern Tennessee,

00:51:05.960 and so forth,

00:51:06.640 where non-citizens

00:51:08.660 are getting a priority

00:51:10.560 over the very people

00:51:11.900 who pay the taxes

00:51:12.780 and get up every morning,

00:51:15.080 usually at ungodly hours

00:51:16.820 and the like,

00:51:17.660 to do that.

00:51:18.740 It's just,

00:51:19.540 that's globalism.

00:51:20.420 Globalism does not recognize

00:51:22.980 border,

00:51:24.480 frontier,

00:51:25.300 it doesn't recognize culture,

00:51:26.900 it doesn't recognize religion,

00:51:28.380 tradition.

00:51:29.360 Globalism,

00:51:29.960 I once heard it described,

00:51:31.140 it's not so much

00:51:31.700 a civilization as a system.

00:51:33.580 It's just this real,

00:51:35.380 sterile,

00:51:36.700 raw system

00:51:37.600 for amassing

00:51:39.400 a tremendous amount

00:51:40.280 of power and wealth

00:51:41.280 in the hands of

00:51:41.780 very,

00:51:42.480 very few people.

00:51:43.580 And then,

00:51:44.140 now it's just being

00:51:45.180 married to

00:51:46.360 a new kind of

00:51:48.240 religious fundamentalism

00:51:49.940 in the form of wokeness

00:51:51.620 and the key element

00:51:53.380 of fundamentalism

00:51:54.340 is there's no basis

00:51:55.440 for dissent.

00:51:56.620 The dissenters,

00:51:57.440 by definition,

00:51:58.080 a heretic and heretics

00:51:59.080 must be excommunicated, 0.99

00:52:00.740 hence cancel culture.

00:52:03.260 So we're going to move over

00:52:04.080 to the questions

00:52:04.640 of the people,

00:52:05.400 but before we do,

00:52:06.820 where can they find

00:52:07.760 your book?

00:52:08.400 Where can they find

00:52:09.080 your other great work?

00:52:10.840 Where should they be

00:52:11.620 looking for Steve Turley?

00:52:13.660 They can grab the book.

00:52:15.400 Is this subtle enough

00:52:16.920 for you here?

00:52:18.780 What's the name of it?

00:52:19.700 I can't quite.

00:52:20.300 Yeah,

00:52:20.520 what is it again?

00:52:21.640 Yeah,

00:52:22.220 but they could grab

00:52:23.500 just a punch in my name,

00:52:24.760 Turley and fight.

00:52:25.720 If you just put those

00:52:26.420 two in Amazon,

00:52:27.480 it'll,

00:52:28.240 it'll come right up.

00:52:29.120 And so, 0.96

00:52:30.540 or you could just punch

00:52:31.500 my name in Steve Turley

00:52:33.020 in YouTube.

00:52:35.120 Also,

00:52:35.660 I'm Dr. Turley Talks.

00:52:37.280 That's my Twitter handle.

00:52:38.940 And,

00:52:39.440 and you could go to

00:52:40.300 a website,

00:52:40.980 turleytalks.com.

00:52:43.240 Fantastic.

00:52:43.840 All right,

00:52:44.160 guys,

00:52:44.520 let's check out

00:52:45.580 your questions here.

00:52:47.760 Proover Weirdo says,

00:52:48.800 does Dr. Turley know

00:52:50.020 about Academic Agent's

00:52:51.180 coverage of his show?

00:52:52.700 How does he feel about it?

00:52:54.340 I feel like you've actually

00:52:55.120 been on Nima Parvina's channel,

00:52:56.920 right?

00:52:57.140 Yeah,

00:52:57.520 yeah,

00:52:57.760 I love it.

00:52:58.400 Yeah,

00:52:58.860 he's even got it.

00:52:59.700 He's got a whole like

00:53:00.700 Turley skit that he does.

00:53:03.180 I love it.

00:53:03.740 I think those guys are,

00:53:05.120 those guys are great.

00:53:06.140 Those,

00:53:06.400 those are our,

00:53:07.080 our brothers across the pond

00:53:08.940 and I love it.

00:53:09.640 They're wonderful.

00:53:10.440 And,

00:53:11.120 something amazing

00:53:13.480 is happening in Britain

00:53:14.420 right now.

00:53:15.500 The,

00:53:15.640 the Tories,

00:53:16.460 if the Republicans

00:53:17.260 are,

00:53:17.620 are not careful,

00:53:18.840 they are going to go

00:53:19.500 the way of the Tories.

00:53:21.080 And,

00:53:21.680 and we're going to see

00:53:23.500 a new party

00:53:24.080 probably arise

00:53:25.160 or at least what,

00:53:26.220 hopefully,

00:53:26.820 a complete takeover

00:53:28.920 of the Republican Party.

00:53:30.660 Trump is basically

00:53:31.440 a third party candidate

00:53:32.800 who's taken over

00:53:34.220 a major party.

00:53:35.060 It's basically

00:53:35.600 what he did.

00:53:36.260 In Britain, 0.69

00:53:36.840 you just start

00:53:37.340 your own party.

00:53:38.000 So,

00:53:38.540 Nigel Farage starts reform.

00:53:40.220 They're pulling

00:53:40.760 better than,

00:53:42.220 than the Tories are now.

00:53:44.060 So,

00:53:44.220 if the Tories aren't,

00:53:45.060 if the Republicans

00:53:45.700 aren't careful,

00:53:46.440 they may go the,

00:53:47.120 the way of the Dodo bird

00:53:48.640 Tories.

00:53:49.760 So,

00:53:50.120 well,

00:53:50.360 Donald Trump

00:53:50.980 was our zero seats,

00:53:52.460 which is what,

00:53:53.120 what allowed them

00:53:53.840 to continue.

00:53:54.440 But,

00:53:54.860 but,

00:53:55.240 but because he did

00:53:56.320 inside their frame,

00:53:57.160 if they had rejected him

00:53:58.180 the way the Democrats

00:53:59.000 had rejected Bernie,

00:54:00.460 we would be in a

00:54:01.040 very different situation.

00:54:02.260 Very different.

00:54:03.340 But funny enough,

00:54:04.040 academic agent

00:54:04.680 actually coined

00:54:05.400 the zero seats term.

00:54:06.560 He did.

00:54:07.020 He did.

00:54:07.400 He did.

00:54:07.980 He did.

00:54:08.620 Yeah.

00:54:08.960 Yeah.

00:54:09.240 And then even,

00:54:09.780 I think Nigel Farage

00:54:11.100 tweeted it out.

00:54:11.860 He's like,

00:54:12.160 yes,

00:54:12.640 we've,

00:54:12.980 we've arrived.

00:54:14.180 Exactly.

00:54:15.040 He also says,

00:54:15.900 what does Dr. 0.95

00:54:16.700 Trilly think of

00:54:17.400 Christian nationalism

00:54:18.160 as a way forward

00:54:19.080 on the right?

00:54:19.760 Has Oren changed

00:54:20.420 his mind on

00:54:21.200 Christian nationalism

00:54:21.860 from his skeptical

00:54:23.580 or from skeptical

00:54:24.960 to open to it?

00:54:27.140 Well,

00:54:27.660 I'll let you,

00:54:28.300 you could answer that

00:54:29.820 for the second part.

00:54:30.700 Of course,

00:54:31.020 I'm not going to speak

00:54:31.680 for you.

00:54:32.400 Yeah.

00:54:32.880 Christian nationalism.

00:54:33.880 I just,

00:54:34.720 so in this,

00:54:35.440 in this shift,

00:54:36.400 in this return

00:54:37.260 to civilization

00:54:38.060 that we're seeing

00:54:39.100 around the world,

00:54:40.540 again,

00:54:40.940 as Oren pointed out,

00:54:42.800 Huntington was just,

00:54:43.680 I think he was very insightful

00:54:44.940 on how every civilization

00:54:46.800 is ultimately rooted

00:54:47.760 in a religion.

00:54:48.320 and,

00:54:49.740 and,

00:54:50.680 because religion provides,

00:54:53.860 this is a,

00:54:54.680 this is a,

00:54:55.580 this is a,

00:54:55.600 Peter Sorkin,

00:54:56.700 the,

00:54:56.880 the Russian-American

00:54:58.620 sociologist,

00:55:00.020 a brilliant,

00:55:00.600 started the,

00:55:01.500 Harvard,

00:55:02.420 started the sociology department

00:55:03.920 at Harvard

00:55:04.380 in 1930,

00:55:05.340 if I recall.

00:55:06.100 He basically argued

00:55:07.720 that secular societies

00:55:08.900 by definition rot

00:55:10.340 because they don't have

00:55:12.520 the sacred sources

00:55:14.840 of self-replenishing

00:55:16.300 renewal

00:55:17.000 that religion

00:55:18.380 offers to society.

00:55:20.000 So,

00:55:20.520 a society,

00:55:21.460 a civilization

00:55:22.260 rises,

00:55:24.520 it is thoroughly

00:55:25.300 religious,

00:55:25.980 it's got all of its,

00:55:27.180 what he would call

00:55:28.060 sensate components

00:55:29.780 to it,

00:55:30.920 which means

00:55:31.620 we got to figure out

00:55:32.260 how to hunt

00:55:32.820 and we got to figure out

00:55:33.620 how to build

00:55:34.140 and we got to figure out,

00:55:35.500 you know,

00:55:35.660 how to govern

00:55:36.240 and,

00:55:36.820 and fight wars

00:55:38.340 and all that,

00:55:39.080 that's,

00:55:39.600 and,

00:55:39.900 and solve legal disputes

00:55:41.420 and the like,

00:55:42.280 but,

00:55:42.540 but all of that,

00:55:43.940 all that sensate,

00:55:44.780 what we call secular,

00:55:45.820 is a material embodiment

00:55:47.780 of the sacred

00:55:49.220 and secularism happens

00:55:52.020 when,

00:55:53.380 when that secular

00:55:55.200 part of life

00:55:56.180 begins to sort of

00:55:57.120 intentionally dislodge

00:55:59.200 itself

00:55:59.640 from the sacred.

00:56:00.860 So,

00:56:01.280 it no longer

00:56:02.180 has any recourse

00:56:04.280 to the sacred,

00:56:05.600 but he argued,

00:56:06.740 but then by definition

00:56:08.140 it withers away

00:56:09.020 because it's cut itself off

00:56:10.680 from that self-replenishing

00:56:12.520 source of,

00:56:13.300 of societal renewal.

00:56:15.360 But what,

00:56:16.660 but because it's eternal,

00:56:18.320 the religion never goes away.

00:56:20.200 Right.

00:56:20.300 So,

00:56:20.540 when the culture

00:56:21.460 starts to rot,

00:56:23.060 the sensate culture,

00:56:24.660 secular culture

00:56:25.320 starts to rock,

00:56:26.440 it turns into compost

00:56:27.740 and what happens

00:56:28.400 with compost,

00:56:29.580 right?

00:56:29.820 The seeds blossom again.

00:56:32.120 So,

00:56:32.640 you know,

00:56:33.260 I just see,

00:56:34.320 I see Christian nationalism

00:56:35.800 or whatever you want

00:56:36.660 to call it

00:56:37.280 as just basically

00:56:38.080 a very organic

00:56:39.320 movement

00:56:40.380 that happens

00:56:41.580 in,

00:56:42.720 in a nation-state context.

00:56:44.440 We have to remember

00:56:44.940 the nation-state itself

00:56:46.320 in the 17th century

00:56:47.940 was a,

00:56:48.360 was a confessional

00:56:49.500 structure.

00:56:50.420 It was thoroughly religious.

00:56:51.660 Quius regio

00:56:52.440 eis religio

00:56:53.320 was the saying,

00:56:54.140 you know,

00:56:54.480 whose region

00:56:55.360 his religion.

00:56:56.700 So,

00:56:57.080 Christendom

00:56:57.800 was getting

00:56:58.240 blown apart

00:56:59.180 and,

00:57:00.080 and we were seeing

00:57:01.460 now

00:57:01.900 different

00:57:02.860 tiny little

00:57:04.220 micronations

00:57:05.100 emerging

00:57:06.620 around princes

00:57:08.040 and if your prince

00:57:08.900 was Catholic,

00:57:09.780 Eurusian's Catholic.

00:57:10.580 If your prince

00:57:10.980 is Protestant,

00:57:11.840 Eurusian's Protestant.

00:57:13.600 So,

00:57:14.000 and even,

00:57:15.920 oh,

00:57:16.200 what's her name?

00:57:16.760 There's a,

00:57:17.280 I think her name

00:57:17.840 is Carol Applebaum.

00:57:20.220 She,

00:57:20.600 she did a study

00:57:21.560 on how,

00:57:22.820 particularly the,

00:57:23.380 the reformers

00:57:24.400 in the 16th century

00:57:25.540 were very interested

00:57:26.940 in the kind of

00:57:27.440 nation-state structure

00:57:28.820 because they thought

00:57:29.900 it represented

00:57:30.620 much more

00:57:31.620 a,

00:57:31.920 a biblical mapping

00:57:33.500 of the world.

00:57:34.320 Israel for Israelites,

00:57:35.460 right?

00:57:35.780 Moab for Moabites,

00:57:36.780 that kind of thing.

00:57:38.280 So,

00:57:38.540 regardless,

00:57:39.860 there have been

00:57:40.380 some very interesting

00:57:41.400 studies about

00:57:42.220 the return of

00:57:42.900 theocracy today.

00:57:44.380 And the,

00:57:44.600 theocracy is a very,

00:57:46.580 has,

00:57:47.460 it's a very dynamic term.

00:57:49.380 It can mean a lot

00:57:50.180 of different things.

00:57:50.940 So,

00:57:51.120 for example,

00:57:51.580 Morocco is often

00:57:52.500 referred to as

00:57:53.000 a constitutional

00:57:53.920 theocracy.

00:57:55.580 The Catholic Church

00:57:56.440 exercised enormous

00:57:57.640 influence in the nation,

00:57:59.040 but there are

00:57:59.720 constitutional limits

00:58:00.900 to what kind of

00:58:01.840 laws they can pass,

00:58:02.860 but those laws

00:58:03.660 are going to be

00:58:04.360 derived from

00:58:05.260 classical Catholicism,

00:58:06.320 that kind of stuff.

00:58:07.860 But scholars

00:58:08.720 who have been

00:58:09.360 studying the return

00:58:10.820 of theocracy

00:58:11.720 have noticed

00:58:13.440 that,

00:58:13.940 you know,

00:58:14.540 it never really

00:58:16.420 went away.

00:58:17.500 Religion was 0.98

00:58:18.460 always a part

00:58:19.600 of the nation-state

00:58:20.580 project.

00:58:21.800 We tried

00:58:22.680 for a while

00:58:23.580 to push it

00:58:24.700 entirely into

00:58:25.600 the private sphere

00:58:26.360 of life.

00:58:27.120 And how are we doing?

00:58:28.400 We're getting,

00:58:28.660 we're getting brokenness.

00:58:29.880 That's what we're doing.

00:58:30.800 So it's just

00:58:31.400 inevitable it's going

00:58:32.560 to come back.

00:58:33.560 And it'll come back

00:58:34.180 in all kinds of ways.

00:58:35.320 You've got

00:58:35.600 this kind of new

00:58:36.620 religious leftism

00:58:37.900 that's coming back.

00:58:39.060 And you've got

00:58:39.760 this new

00:58:40.700 Christian nationalism

00:58:41.740 that's coming back.

00:58:42.560 But I just see it

00:58:43.260 as all part of

00:58:43.980 a very organic process

00:58:45.200 of returning

00:58:46.000 to nation,

00:58:46.540 culture,

00:58:46.840 custom,

00:58:47.160 and tradition.

00:58:47.720 No, I think

00:58:48.560 that's right.

00:58:49.000 People who call

00:58:49.960 this a theocracy

00:58:50.960 are just,

00:58:51.820 they're confused

00:58:52.560 about history

00:58:53.600 for, you know,

00:58:54.680 all but the last

00:58:55.620 couple hundred years.

00:58:57.460 Religion was a core

00:58:58.240 part of every one

00:58:59.040 of these civilizations.

00:59:00.060 It still is.

00:59:01.020 Progressive secular humanism

00:59:02.520 is the religion

00:59:03.620 of our current regime.

00:59:05.280 Exactly.

00:59:05.880 Nothing about that

00:59:06.740 has changed.

00:59:07.620 And so the idea

00:59:08.660 that any form

00:59:09.580 of religion

00:59:09.980 being present

00:59:10.880 in the public square

00:59:11.700 is a theocracy 0.99

00:59:12.740 is just a very foolish 0.98

00:59:14.040 way to understand 0.99

00:59:14.760 governments.

00:59:15.540 Every government

00:59:15.980 is going to be informed

00:59:16.800 by some kind

00:59:17.880 of value system.

00:59:19.120 Exactly.

00:59:19.660 And calling that 0.98

00:59:20.220 theocracy is just foolish. 0.96

00:59:21.440 Yeah, another way 1.00

00:59:22.480 of putting it

00:59:22.920 is theocracy

00:59:23.440 is inescapable.

00:59:24.400 You're always going

00:59:24.780 to have a theocracy.

00:59:25.620 Again, it goes right back

00:59:27.180 to close the loop

00:59:27.960 right back

00:59:28.580 to your original question.

00:59:30.160 Is it going to be

00:59:30.540 a good one

00:59:30.900 or a bad one?

00:59:31.460 Yeah, and so this was

00:59:32.960 you know, to answer

00:59:33.680 the question

00:59:34.220 my problem

00:59:35.200 with Christian nationalism

00:59:36.080 has never been its goals.

00:59:37.240 It has never been the idea

00:59:38.180 that biblical truth

00:59:39.280 should not be

00:59:39.880 part of our legal system

00:59:41.200 or inform our values

00:59:42.940 in the way that we

00:59:43.620 create our laws.

00:59:45.360 But ultimately

00:59:46.140 my problem is that

00:59:47.180 the phrase itself

00:59:48.220 was obviously

00:59:48.960 manufactured by

00:59:50.940 the media

00:59:51.900 in order to

00:59:52.920 push a certain agenda.

00:59:54.580 It's very clear

00:59:55.080 that the left

00:59:55.540 originated

00:59:56.540 the usage of this

00:59:57.840 and also

00:59:58.680 the fact that

01:00:00.260 you know

01:00:01.460 Ethiopia

01:00:02.080 is a Christian

01:00:03.100 nation.

01:00:04.620 Armenia

01:00:05.140 is a Christian

01:00:06.120 nation.

01:00:06.860 So Christian nationalism 0.89

01:00:07.700 doesn't tell anything

01:00:08.420 about our

01:00:09.620 political movement.

01:00:10.740 Yes, it should be Christian. 0.85

01:00:12.260 But what else is it?

01:00:13.380 Who are we?

01:00:14.180 That is a question

01:00:15.120 that is beyond

01:00:15.840 simply saying

01:00:16.640 we are Christian.

01:00:17.400 That's central.

01:00:18.340 That's critical.

01:00:19.580 But it is not

01:00:20.480 sufficient to describe

01:00:22.080 our particular

01:00:22.860 understanding,

01:00:24.020 our American understanding.

01:00:25.160 So that has been

01:00:25.980 my only objection.

01:00:27.600 It's not the goals.

01:00:28.300 It's the understanding

01:00:29.620 that it covers

01:00:30.780 over certain things

01:00:31.500 that I think

01:00:31.840 are very important.

01:00:33.280 And that's the kind

01:00:34.100 of analysis

01:00:34.620 I watch your channel for.

01:00:36.260 I appreciate it.

01:00:37.340 Thank you.

01:00:38.240 Blue Wizard Robe

01:00:40.300 says,

01:00:40.740 just ordered my copy

01:00:41.720 of the McIntyre Code

01:00:42.820 coming from fine

01:00:43.560 bookstores everywhere.

01:00:44.940 For those who don't know,

01:00:46.160 there's a Twitter joke

01:00:47.300 going around

01:00:47.960 because of James Lindsay's

01:00:49.520 kind of

01:00:49.920 conspiracy theory

01:00:51.460 that I am the head of

01:00:52.500 that he's created

01:00:53.760 a Da Vinci Code

01:00:54.800 entirely around me,

01:00:56.120 the McIntyre Code.

01:00:56.980 That's the context

01:00:58.280 for that joke.

01:01:00.240 Cooper Reader says,

01:01:01.060 so what's the deal

01:01:01.860 with James Lindsay?

01:01:02.820 Guys, look,

01:01:03.520 obviously we did the episode.

01:01:05.500 I wanted to address

01:01:06.440 James's comments,

01:01:08.140 but I don't want

01:01:09.220 to live on this.

01:01:10.100 I'm not interested

01:01:10.840 in doing this drama forever.

01:01:12.440 He said something 1.00

01:01:13.060 really dumb and crazy. 1.00

01:01:14.320 I just pointed out 1.00

01:01:15.060 that it was dumb and crazy 0.99

01:01:15.980 and it's time to move on. 0.99

01:01:17.880 I wish him the best.

01:01:18.820 I'll be praying for James.

01:01:20.060 I hope he finds something

01:01:21.020 that makes his life

01:01:22.200 work,

01:01:23.260 living,

01:01:23.800 to focus on,

01:01:24.680 something that's not

01:01:25.420 about tearing things down,

01:01:27.200 but something that

01:01:27.720 he's willing to build towards.

01:01:30.080 I hope that for him.

01:01:31.680 I really,

01:01:32.520 you know, 0.99

01:01:32.760 he said something foolish. 0.98

01:01:34.200 I addressed it, 0.97

01:01:34.900 but I really don't want

01:01:35.880 to sit on top

01:01:36.740 of that too long.

01:01:38.760 And then Life of Brian says,

01:01:40.300 could either of you

01:01:41.020 expand on what identity

01:01:42.780 means versus its absence?

01:01:44.940 I see boomerism

01:01:46.680 as the ethic

01:01:47.980 of good equals

01:01:48.880 self-autonomy

01:01:49.780 shapes slash

01:01:51.480 regulates world contingency

01:01:53.280 while bad

01:01:54.300 is world shapes

01:01:55.780 regulates self.

01:01:57.820 So yeah,

01:01:58.240 maybe we could expand

01:01:59.160 a little bit about that.

01:02:00.120 What does it mean

01:02:00.720 to have

01:02:01.300 kind of the

01:02:02.060 healthy identity

01:02:03.180 versus the absence

01:02:04.200 that the current order creates?

01:02:07.380 Yeah,

01:02:07.620 so historically,

01:02:09.140 as I understand,

01:02:09.720 identity studies,

01:02:10.820 and it's actually

01:02:11.420 I get into it

01:02:12.680 in the book,

01:02:13.180 it's a relatively new term.

01:02:14.920 It only started getting

01:02:15.840 introduced into

01:02:16.780 sociological literature,

01:02:19.280 I think,

01:02:19.600 in the 1960s.

01:02:21.500 And it was with

01:02:21.900 and the first use

01:02:23.260 of identity politics

01:02:24.300 was with a

01:02:25.060 handicap movement,

01:02:26.620 people who were

01:02:27.500 trying to,

01:02:28.460 you know,

01:02:28.880 create better access

01:02:30.680 for people

01:02:32.220 who have various handicaps.

01:02:34.500 But identity itself

01:02:35.720 is generally

01:02:36.360 understood

01:02:37.240 in terms of positionality.

01:02:38.900 So I'm a dad,

01:02:40.020 I'm a husband,

01:02:41.220 I'm a son,

01:02:42.120 I'm a teacher,

01:02:42.720 I'm a broadcaster,

01:02:43.760 right?

01:02:44.280 We assume

01:02:45.580 all of these

01:02:47.260 predicates

01:02:48.960 as a result

01:02:50.060 of our positionality

01:02:51.180 to the world.

01:02:51.720 I'm American,

01:02:52.620 I'm North American,

01:02:53.660 you know,

01:02:53.840 and so on and so forth.

01:02:55.640 And what

01:02:56.980 identity

01:02:58.900 historically was

01:03:01.100 is it was

01:03:02.260 at least

01:03:03.000 in part

01:03:03.700 rooted in

01:03:04.440 space

01:03:05.100 and place.

01:03:07.260 So,

01:03:07.880 so your

01:03:08.800 identity

01:03:09.520 as an American

01:03:10.920 actually meant

01:03:12.720 something

01:03:13.140 at one point,

01:03:13.900 same as

01:03:14.620 your identity

01:03:15.220 as a Japanese

01:03:16.080 person.

01:03:16.360 My wife is from

01:03:17.180 Japan,

01:03:17.940 for example.

01:03:18.480 Your identity

01:03:19.020 as a Russian.

01:03:19.980 And then within

01:03:20.640 that system,

01:03:22.160 you get more granular.

01:03:23.620 My identity

01:03:24.200 as a Northeasterner,

01:03:25.440 right,

01:03:25.720 as opposed

01:03:26.160 to a Southerner,

01:03:26.980 something like that.

01:03:28.300 A Texan

01:03:29.380 as opposed

01:03:30.060 to

01:03:30.440 a North Carolinian.

01:03:33.220 So you can get

01:03:34.020 very granular

01:03:35.600 with that,

01:03:36.060 but they're all

01:03:36.800 common in that

01:03:37.760 space matters

01:03:38.860 and place matters

01:03:40.220 because space

01:03:41.400 and place

01:03:42.280 provide those

01:03:43.660 frames of reference

01:03:44.980 whereby we find

01:03:47.360 meaning in life.

01:03:48.740 Space and place

01:03:49.600 are associated

01:03:50.340 with date

01:03:51.680 and calendar,

01:03:52.500 food and festivity,

01:03:54.080 language,

01:03:55.240 and on and on,

01:03:56.720 and different

01:03:57.560 aesthetic elements

01:03:59.100 and on and on.

01:04:00.440 And

01:04:00.860 one of the

01:04:02.180 coolest things

01:04:02.760 with the rise

01:04:03.300 of the

01:04:03.540 civilizationalist world,

01:04:04.680 as people have

01:04:05.140 been pointing out,

01:04:05.820 is ironically,

01:04:06.880 we're the real

01:04:07.400 multiculturalists.

01:04:08.800 We're the ones

01:04:09.600 who are like,

01:04:09.980 yeah,

01:04:10.180 I love lots

01:04:11.080 of different cultures.

01:04:11.540 I love going to Japan.

01:04:13.000 My kids go nuts

01:04:14.400 when they go to Japan.

01:04:15.600 What they hate

01:04:16.580 is seeing a McDonald's

01:04:18.060 sign right when we land.

01:04:19.940 They don't like that.

01:04:21.040 I didn't go to anything.

01:04:22.140 Go for it.

01:04:23.140 There's nothing more gross

01:04:24.200 than walking into

01:04:25.540 a beautiful area

01:04:27.000 in France

01:04:27.680 or England

01:04:28.060 or something

01:04:28.560 with these buildings

01:04:29.740 that have been there

01:04:30.360 for centuries

01:04:31.300 and centuries,

01:04:32.140 and then you just see

01:04:33.120 a McDonald's

01:04:34.240 slapped in the middle

01:04:35.060 of it.

01:04:35.600 You're just like,

01:04:36.400 what is this?

01:04:37.620 It's horrible.

01:04:38.840 I can't stand it.

01:04:39.620 I agree with you

01:04:40.600 a thousand percent.

01:04:41.920 So that

01:04:42.480 kind of leads us

01:04:43.760 then to all

01:04:44.520 of that originality

01:04:46.080 to space,

01:04:47.340 to place,

01:04:48.280 is completely

01:04:50.360 wiped out

01:04:51.280 with globalism.

01:04:52.900 I mean,

01:04:53.200 to the extent

01:04:53.840 that globalist

01:04:54.580 processes

01:04:55.300 are dominant.

01:04:57.860 Globalism

01:04:58.380 replaces

01:04:59.060 place

01:05:00.140 and space

01:05:00.960 with a

01:05:02.120 one-size-fits-all

01:05:03.740 standardized

01:05:05.500 scaled

01:05:06.840 political

01:05:07.900 and economic

01:05:08.420 system.

01:05:08.880 Think about

01:05:09.200 your malls,

01:05:10.480 right?

01:05:10.820 You've got a local

01:05:11.740 mall,

01:05:12.480 but when you go to a mall,

01:05:13.860 one of the things

01:05:14.320 you'll notice

01:05:14.820 is nothing there

01:05:16.200 is local.

01:05:17.600 There is no store

01:05:19.020 in a mall

01:05:19.560 that is local

01:05:21.460 by definition

01:05:22.360 because that's

01:05:22.800 what a mall is.

01:05:23.580 There are all

01:05:24.040 these translocal

01:05:25.180 chains

01:05:25.900 that are all

01:05:27.180 brought together.

01:05:28.260 Again,

01:05:28.520 it's not to say

01:05:29.180 it's bad,

01:05:29.720 it's evil,

01:05:30.440 or, you know,

01:05:31.120 it's very convenient,

01:05:32.260 no question

01:05:32.860 about it,

01:05:34.260 but there's

01:05:35.820 a price we pay.

01:05:36.760 I mean,

01:05:36.920 if you want local,

01:05:37.680 you go to a farmer's market.

01:05:40.540 You're probably

01:05:41.860 not going to find

01:05:42.420 anything

01:05:42.880 that's translocal

01:05:43.840 there.

01:05:44.220 So all

01:05:45.420 the spatial

01:05:47.100 locative

01:05:48.760 indicators

01:05:49.340 that gave us

01:05:50.660 a sense

01:05:51.340 of place

01:05:52.200 in the world

01:05:53.040 and therefore

01:05:53.600 a home

01:05:54.760 are being

01:05:56.420 wiped out

01:05:57.400 and I think

01:05:59.780 that's

01:06:00.360 I think

01:06:01.640 that's

01:06:02.100 the

01:06:02.400 pernicious

01:06:03.300 element

01:06:04.080 of globalism

01:06:05.720 and

01:06:06.740 why is his name

01:06:08.620 escaping me?

01:06:10.800 The British

01:06:11.920 fellow

01:06:12.740 who wrote

01:06:13.400 on the invasion

01:06:15.080 in Europe

01:06:15.600 Douglas

01:06:19.000 Douglas

01:06:19.800 Douglas Murray

01:06:21.140 Douglas Murray

01:06:22.260 Thank you

01:06:22.800 Thank you

01:06:23.320 The Strange Death of Europe

01:06:24.740 Strange Death of Europe

01:06:26.320 Thank you

01:06:26.760 That's his central

01:06:28.340 argument there

01:06:29.180 is that

01:06:29.760 the open borders

01:06:31.140 in the end

01:06:32.100 are robbing us

01:06:33.380 of the only place

01:06:34.620 we can call home

01:06:35.640 as Europeans

01:06:36.260 and now

01:06:38.600 we're effectively

01:06:39.480 becoming

01:06:40.140 homeless

01:06:41.120 and

01:06:42.300 without home

01:06:43.420 you lose

01:06:44.580 that

01:06:45.080 the most

01:06:46.880 beautiful

01:06:48.120 deep

01:06:49.060 rooted

01:06:49.940 identity

01:06:50.720 imaginable

01:06:51.500 your place

01:06:52.260 is lost 0.97

01:06:53.600 and you

01:06:54.080 become

01:06:54.440 a floating

01:06:55.000 being

01:06:55.380 just going

01:06:55.800 from one

01:06:56.400 artificial

01:06:57.000 identity

01:06:57.640 to another

01:06:58.640 just depending

01:06:59.260 on whatever

01:06:59.680 is the fashion

01:07:00.360 of the time

01:07:01.540 I think

01:07:02.740 that's exactly

01:07:03.280 right

01:07:03.600 and to

01:07:03.860 expand on

01:07:04.340 that for

01:07:04.640 just a

01:07:05.000 second

01:07:05.220 I want

01:07:05.540 people to

01:07:06.000 know

01:07:06.280 that

01:07:06.420 there's

01:07:06.800 something

01:07:06.980 you should

01:07:07.280 understand

01:07:07.920 about the

01:07:09.060 conflict

01:07:09.480 that people

01:07:09.900 are having

01:07:10.540 when it

01:07:10.940 comes to

01:07:11.360 this idea

01:07:11.780 of identity

01:07:12.400 when people

01:07:13.900 hear about

01:07:14.720 the postmodernists

01:07:15.760 right

01:07:16.160 they panic

01:07:17.260 the conservatives

01:07:17.920 especially on the right

01:07:18.760 they panic

01:07:19.180 the postmodernists

01:07:20.040 because the

01:07:20.920 postmodernists

01:07:21.580 point to all

01:07:22.240 these things

01:07:22.900 like language

01:07:23.860 and religion

01:07:24.880 and ethnicity

01:07:25.980 and gender

01:07:27.400 and they say

01:07:28.080 these things

01:07:28.540 all change

01:07:29.580 your perspective

01:07:30.320 they change

01:07:30.860 your understanding

01:07:31.600 of the world

01:07:32.360 and they

01:07:33.940 and they freak

01:07:34.520 out because they

01:07:35.060 say that can't

01:07:35.520 be true

01:07:35.780 there's an

01:07:36.100 objective truth

01:07:36.760 it's the same

01:07:37.420 everywhere all

01:07:38.100 the time

01:07:38.540 and so this

01:07:39.320 is the thing

01:07:39.760 and look

01:07:40.620 there is an

01:07:41.160 objective truth

01:07:41.760 guys

01:07:42.000 but there is

01:07:43.040 a truth

01:07:43.500 also that

01:07:44.140 your identity

01:07:44.700 changes certain

01:07:45.740 things

01:07:46.080 the foods

01:07:46.560 that you eat

01:07:47.100 the way that

01:07:47.840 you even

01:07:48.240 conceive

01:07:48.640 identities

01:07:49.060 because they're

01:07:49.620 speaking

01:07:49.920 they're spoken

01:07:50.740 in particular

01:07:51.200 languages

01:07:51.720 which are

01:07:52.380 referencing

01:07:52.820 different ideas

01:07:53.820 signifiers

01:07:55.000 that you only

01:07:55.780 understand

01:07:56.120 because you're

01:07:56.540 from that

01:07:56.920 culture

01:07:57.320 and so the

01:07:58.160 mistake that

01:07:58.760 a lot of

01:07:59.040 people make

01:07:59.540 is the

01:07:59.980 postmodernists

01:08:00.580 did something

01:08:01.060 evil

01:08:01.460 I want to

01:08:01.760 make it clear

01:08:02.140 the postmodernists 0.98

01:08:02.940 are evil 0.97

01:08:03.640 but the reason

01:08:04.600 they're evil

01:08:05.140 is not that

01:08:05.700 they recognize

01:08:06.480 that identity

01:08:07.120 is real

01:08:07.880 and that it

01:08:08.280 impacts the way

01:08:08.860 that you

01:08:09.140 understand the

01:08:09.600 world

01:08:09.840 the reason

01:08:10.520 postmodernists 0.99

01:08:11.220 are evil 1.00

01:08:11.760 is they

01:08:12.160 looked at

01:08:12.520 it and they

01:08:12.840 said

01:08:13.040 well it's

01:08:13.920 all arbitrary

01:08:14.720 so we can

01:08:15.580 rip it up

01:08:16.100 we can remake

01:08:17.000 it

01:08:17.220 we can turn

01:08:17.780 it into

01:08:18.000 whatever we

01:08:18.420 want

01:08:18.600 we can be

01:08:19.700 as gods

01:08:20.980 it's the

01:08:21.600 oldest sin

01:08:22.860 in the book

01:08:23.620 right

01:08:23.920 we can rule

01:08:25.100 we can remake

01:08:25.900 ourselves

01:08:26.360 that is evil

01:08:27.700 the truth

01:08:28.520 is that these

01:08:29.200 things are

01:08:29.540 actually deep

01:08:30.300 and organic

01:08:31.260 and they are

01:08:32.940 an animating

01:08:33.760 spirit that

01:08:34.440 drives who

01:08:35.220 and what

01:08:35.580 we are

01:08:36.120 and so

01:08:36.960 the problem

01:08:37.600 is not

01:08:37.960 recognizing that

01:08:38.820 these things

01:08:39.220 are real

01:08:39.680 that's not

01:08:40.340 the mistake

01:08:40.720 that postmodernists

01:08:41.400 made

01:08:41.680 the evil thing

01:08:42.900 they did

01:08:43.200 was say

01:08:43.480 we should

01:08:43.820 just rip 0.99

01:08:44.160 these things

01:08:44.600 up and control

01:08:45.160 them ourselves

01:08:45.760 instead

01:08:46.540 the important

01:08:47.120 thing is to

01:08:47.580 recognize them

01:08:48.400 and recognize

01:08:49.200 how real

01:08:50.480 and important

01:08:50.940 they are

01:08:51.420 Aristotle

01:08:51.980 knew this

01:08:53.120 that the

01:08:53.840 the virtue

01:08:54.820 is only

01:08:55.300 attained

01:08:55.680 inside

01:08:56.400 community

01:08:57.020 that

01:08:57.540 knowing

01:08:57.980 who we are

01:08:58.580 in this

01:08:58.800 community

01:08:59.100 knowing we

01:08:59.680 are fathers

01:09:00.200 knowing that

01:09:00.780 we are mothers

01:09:01.320 knowing that

01:09:02.060 we are sons

01:09:02.740 or that

01:09:03.100 we are

01:09:03.400 we are farmers

01:09:04.560 or fighters

01:09:05.180 or you know

01:09:06.120 the roles that

01:09:06.920 we inhabit

01:09:07.420 in these things

01:09:08.220 and who we

01:09:08.760 are

01:09:08.940 they define us

01:09:10.000 and they define

01:09:10.720 what it means

01:09:11.240 to be virtuous

01:09:11.780 people

01:09:12.500 and we need

01:09:13.780 that

01:09:14.100 we need

01:09:14.680 that community

01:09:15.260 to understand

01:09:15.860 who we are

01:09:16.300 and how to

01:09:16.760 live our best

01:09:17.400 life

01:09:17.780 and that is

01:09:18.800 what the modern

01:09:19.280 world has

01:09:20.080 ripped away

01:09:20.540 from us

01:09:20.960 that by

01:09:21.560 trying to

01:09:22.180 make us

01:09:22.520 all one

01:09:23.020 thing

01:09:23.320 by trying

01:09:23.900 to homogenize

01:09:24.680 this and

01:09:24.980 create this

01:09:25.360 universal empire

01:09:26.060 that Dr. Turley

01:09:27.120 has talked

01:09:27.520 about

01:09:27.800 that is

01:09:28.580 the evil

01:09:29.060 the evil

01:09:29.640 is this idea

01:09:30.760 that we could

01:09:31.220 either completely

01:09:32.020 delete those

01:09:32.600 things

01:09:32.920 or that we

01:09:33.740 could remake

01:09:34.260 them as we

01:09:34.800 want

01:09:35.160 the evil

01:09:35.680 is not

01:09:36.300 in understanding

01:09:36.960 that that

01:09:37.380 identity

01:09:37.740 is real

01:09:38.520 and is

01:09:38.880 something

01:09:39.100 that impacts

01:09:39.680 us

01:09:40.020 yes

01:09:40.840 that's

01:09:41.320 that's

01:09:41.700 brilliantly

01:09:42.440 put

01:09:42.800 I love

01:09:43.360 you brought

01:09:43.820 you brought

01:09:44.380 in Aristotle

01:09:44.860 let me bring

01:09:45.440 in Plato

01:09:45.900 here

01:09:46.160 right

01:09:46.380 because

01:09:46.660 yeah

01:09:47.780 the post

01:09:48.180 and again

01:09:48.900 you're just

01:09:49.540 spot on

01:09:50.020 the postmodernist

01:09:50.940 will tell you

01:09:51.600 about the

01:09:52.000 importance of

01:09:52.600 culture

01:09:52.980 about the

01:09:53.460 importance of

01:09:54.060 language

01:09:54.460 and so on

01:09:55.200 for understanding

01:09:56.740 the world

01:09:57.200 and identity

01:09:57.800 and how

01:09:58.620 knowledge is

01:09:59.380 self-shaped

01:10:00.560 by those

01:10:01.680 very things

01:10:02.500 knowledge is

01:10:03.040 very civilizational

01:10:04.120 in that sense

01:10:04.880 without question

01:10:05.800 and they will

01:10:06.700 tell you

01:10:07.040 there is no

01:10:07.600 truth at all

01:10:08.460 all truth

01:10:09.800 is a cultural

01:10:10.520 construct

01:10:11.020 there is no

01:10:12.540 beauty

01:10:12.920 all beauty

01:10:14.240 are cultural

01:10:14.980 construct

01:10:15.480 there is no

01:10:16.140 goodness

01:10:16.480 all concepts

01:10:17.580 of goodness

01:10:17.960 are nothing

01:10:18.760 more than

01:10:19.120 cultural

01:10:19.400 constructs

01:10:19.820 now of course

01:10:20.180 they're

01:10:20.660 contradicting

01:10:21.240 themselves

01:10:21.600 and saying

01:10:22.040 these sort

01:10:22.440 of things

01:10:22.760 right

01:10:22.960 they're claiming

01:10:23.620 to have

01:10:24.340 a unique

01:10:25.720 access to

01:10:26.400 objective

01:10:26.860 reality

01:10:27.400 that's something

01:10:27.920 that transcends

01:10:29.080 personal perspective

01:10:30.340 and culture

01:10:30.820 and the like

01:10:31.200 but Plato

01:10:32.020 would have been

01:10:32.720 the first

01:10:33.520 to have been

01:10:34.900 absolutely

01:10:35.780 affronted

01:10:36.300 what they said

01:10:37.020 because truth

01:10:37.980 goodness

01:10:38.220 and beauty

01:10:38.680 are eternal

01:10:39.780 cosmic

01:10:41.060 values

01:10:42.000 that we

01:10:42.740 conform

01:10:43.340 our

01:10:43.880 logos

01:10:44.320 our ethos

01:10:45.020 and our

01:10:45.280 pathos

01:10:46.000 to our

01:10:47.340 mind

01:10:47.920 to truth

01:10:48.680 our moral

01:10:50.000 life

01:10:50.360 to goodness

01:10:50.940 and our

01:10:51.440 aesthetic

01:10:51.980 desires

01:10:54.040 to beauty

01:10:55.200 and we

01:10:56.980 wouldn't have

01:10:57.680 the classical

01:10:58.380 music tradition

01:10:59.120 that we have

01:10:59.680 we wouldn't have

01:11:00.720 the classical

01:11:01.440 painting traditions

01:11:02.460 that we

01:11:02.720 and if we

01:11:03.620 didn't have

01:11:03.880 our classical

01:11:04.320 music

01:11:04.640 we wouldn't

01:11:05.640 have our

01:11:07.120 pop music

01:11:07.740 either

01:11:08.040 because it's

01:11:08.440 based on

01:11:08.840 the same

01:11:09.180 music theory

01:11:09.840 1451

01:11:11.240 right

01:11:12.360 tonic

01:11:13.780 subdominant

01:11:14.420 dominant

01:11:14.780 structure

01:11:15.380 so

01:11:16.160 you wouldn't

01:11:17.280 have these

01:11:17.920 if we

01:11:18.460 actually

01:11:18.840 believed

01:11:19.240 like the

01:11:19.620 postmodernist

01:11:20.260 the postmodernist

01:11:21.160 actually represents

01:11:22.100 the complete

01:11:22.600 destruction

01:11:23.140 of society

01:11:24.240 even in

01:11:24.980 recognizing

01:11:25.600 the futilities

01:11:27.400 of modernity

01:11:28.220 itself

01:11:28.600 that's right

01:11:29.540 yeah

01:11:29.740 and I have

01:11:30.300 my neoclassical

01:11:31.260 medal over here

01:11:32.060 so very

01:11:32.860 important

01:11:33.220 that it

01:11:34.160 leads to

01:11:35.120 that

01:11:35.400 the western

01:11:35.920 oh we got

01:11:36.580 Yngwie Malmsteen

01:11:37.480 coming

01:11:37.860 and all

01:11:38.200 that's great

01:11:39.760 all right guys

01:11:40.800 well we're

01:11:42.240 we're gonna

01:11:42.560 go ahead and

01:11:42.860 wrap this up

01:11:43.360 but it's been

01:11:43.720 fantastic to

01:11:44.560 talk to

01:11:44.920 dr turley

01:11:45.600 of course

01:11:46.040 check out

01:11:46.480 his book

01:11:47.040 fight

01:11:47.540 and of course

01:11:48.960 you can

01:11:49.300 check out

01:11:49.860 his youtube

01:11:50.820 channel as

01:11:51.440 well and

01:11:51.980 his twitter

01:11:52.520 if it's your

01:11:53.300 first time on

01:11:53.880 my channel

01:11:54.400 please go ahead

01:11:55.080 and subscribe

01:11:55.860 click the

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01:12:01.560 to get these

01:12:01.880 broadcasts as

01:12:02.640 podcasts you

01:12:03.500 can subscribe

01:12:03.960 to the

01:12:04.340 or mcintyre

01:12:05.000 show on your

01:12:05.600 favorite podcast

01:12:06.340 platform and

01:12:07.300 of course if

01:12:07.680 you'd like to

01:12:08.060 pick up my

01:12:08.700 book the

01:12:09.400 total state

01:12:09.860 you can also

01:12:10.400 do that on

01:12:11.140 amazon you

01:12:11.700 can get that

01:12:12.260 turley mcintyre

01:12:13.420 combo pickup

01:12:14.460 when you go

01:12:15.300 for it

01:12:16.040 alright guys

01:12:16.500 thank you

01:12:16.820 everybody for

01:12:17.340 watching and

01:12:18.020 as always I

01:12:18.780 will talk to

01:12:19.240 you next time

01:12:20.140 א

01:12:33.740 א

01:12:35.040 א

01:12:38.680 א

01:12:43.460 א

01:12:43.560 א

01:12:44.720 א

01:12:46.120 א

The Auron MacIntyre Show - October 07, 2024

Populism and a Multipolar World ｜ Guest： Steve Turley ｜ 10⧸7⧸2024

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