The Auron MacIntyre Show - Regime Christians and the Obligation of Protection ｜ Guest： Kruptos ｜ 6⧸10⧸24

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00:00:15.420 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:17.540 Thanks for joining me this evening.

00:00:19.660 I've got a great stream with a great guest

00:00:21.400 that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:23.740 I just drove back from Tennessee.

00:00:25.940 I was speaking at the Old Glory Clubs conference there.

00:00:29.380 It was a great time.

00:00:30.760 Kudos to the guys who put it on.

00:00:32.960 They did an excellent job.

00:00:34.500 A lot of people speaking there.

00:00:36.180 John Doyle and Jeff Deist

00:00:38.360 and a number of other amazing speakers.

00:00:41.060 George Bagby, always a fantastic speaker at these events.

00:00:45.520 It was really great to see so many young guys

00:00:47.540 who were excited about building community.

00:00:50.300 Met many of you there who are always commenting,

00:00:53.860 sending in chats, following on Twitter, that kind of thing.

00:00:57.020 It was great to put names with faces.

00:00:59.380 And just really excited to see so many guys

00:01:02.360 who are looking to help out their community,

00:01:04.560 go ahead and take leadership roles in their community,

00:01:07.060 looking to take a lot of the things that we talk about online

00:01:09.800 and put them in practice in the real world.

00:01:11.680 So very encouraging.

00:01:13.600 If you didn't get to go this year,

00:01:15.300 maybe look at going next year.

00:01:17.100 It's well worth your time.

00:01:18.820 But for our show tonight,

00:01:20.320 I wanted to go ahead and have Kruptos on. 0.61

00:01:23.440 He is a sub-stacker.

00:01:25.520 He's a writer.

00:01:26.180 He's often doing podcasts as well.

00:01:28.480 And he's often putting out great pieces.

00:01:30.760 And his latest one was no exception.

00:01:33.420 He talked about Carl Schmitt.

00:01:35.040 Did an application of Carl Schmitt's idea

00:01:37.320 of kind of the obligation of protection.

00:01:39.520 I've touched on that in many videos

00:01:42.040 that I've talked about Schmitt,

00:01:43.900 but I've never really drilled down on the subject.

00:01:46.960 And Kruptos went ahead and applied that

00:01:48.740 to kind of the current situation

00:01:50.480 with the Christian church,

00:01:51.600 which I think is really important at this moment.

00:01:54.860 So Kruptos, thank you for joining me, man.

00:01:57.500 Oh, it's my pleasure.

00:01:58.240 I'm glad to join you and talk about,

00:02:01.040 well, Schmitt and his relationship

00:02:03.060 to the Christian community

00:02:05.740 and this political moment.

00:02:08.260 Yeah, I know, you know, it's forbidden.

00:02:10.000 This is very dangerous.

00:02:10.940 We're not supposed to reference this guy.

00:02:12.840 You might be some kind of postmodern,

00:02:16.540 I don't know, the woke right or something, right?

00:02:19.320 These are the slander that's now being aimed

00:02:22.380 at people who might want to understand

00:02:24.220 how power actually works.

00:02:25.920 But I do think it's really important.

00:02:27.480 I do think there's a lot to learn here

00:02:29.220 for the Christian community.

00:02:30.540 And it's important that we go ahead

00:02:32.080 and take a look at how this applies

00:02:33.860 to how Christians are out there

00:02:36.040 and responding to the current regime.

00:02:39.060 But before we dive into all that, guys,

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00:04:11.840 All right, Kruptos.

00:04:13.300 So let's talk a little bit

00:04:14.740 about your piece.

00:04:16.520 You went ahead and started

00:04:18.640 with the concept

00:04:19.560 of the regime evangelical,

00:04:22.380 which I think, you know,

00:04:23.340 is kind of a term

00:04:25.000 that got coined,

00:04:25.820 I think you said by C.J. Engel,

00:04:27.860 is that right?

00:04:28.980 Yeah, C.J.,

00:04:30.100 I'd been using the term

00:04:31.840 regime Christian

00:04:33.540 and then on Contramundum,

00:04:37.880 C.J. threw out the term

00:04:40.200 regime evangelical

00:04:41.260 and I went,

00:04:41.880 oh, that's just really,

00:04:42.920 that works.

00:04:44.400 It's a bit of a mouthful,

00:04:45.980 but, you know,

00:04:46.940 you could use regime evangelical

00:04:48.420 but, or regime.

00:04:50.080 Sometimes if you're talking

00:04:50.900 about Catholics,

00:04:51.640 you can't just,

00:04:52.200 regime evangelical

00:04:52.900 doesn't really fit.

00:04:54.100 But, you know,

00:04:55.680 there's a bunch

00:04:56.400 of different labels

00:04:57.160 but it all works

00:04:59.880 around the same idea

00:05:01.040 that there are Christians

00:05:03.520 adapting the Christian faith

00:05:05.960 to regime sensibilities.

00:05:10.460 And I got thinking

00:05:13.340 about this,

00:05:14.040 you know,

00:05:14.280 it began a little bit

00:05:16.440 with Aaron Wren's,

00:05:18.080 you know,

00:05:18.320 the three stages,

00:05:19.800 you know,

00:05:19.980 from a positive,

00:05:21.260 neutral,

00:05:21.760 negative world

00:05:22.620 and then listening

00:05:25.440 to yourself

00:05:26.440 and C.J.

00:05:27.060 others talk about

00:05:28.020 how, you know,

00:05:31.360 the left is trying

00:05:32.160 to hollow out Christianity 1.00

00:05:33.340 and wear it as a skin suit,

00:05:34.960 which on the one hand

00:05:36.260 I found to be,

00:05:37.600 yes, that's correct,

00:05:38.420 but it didn't seem

00:05:39.840 like always fully

00:05:41.320 to help understand

00:05:43.180 really what's going on.

00:05:44.340 Like, why are they,

00:05:45.820 you know,

00:05:46.340 hollowing out the faith 0.98

00:05:47.300 and wearing it

00:05:48.220 like a skin suit?

00:05:49.680 And then one of the things

00:05:50.680 that C.J. had said

00:05:52.100 on Contra Munda,

00:05:53.120 just began to set off

00:05:54.920 alarm bells

00:05:55.280 and he was saying

00:05:56.120 that what they're doing

00:05:58.400 is taking the same language

00:06:02.560 that we as Christians use

00:06:03.880 and you'll see this

00:06:04.640 with the very hard left churches

00:06:06.600 and also with more,

00:06:09.700 people who would style themselves

00:06:12.040 as conservatives

00:06:12.860 and yet you still see them

00:06:15.700 bending themselves

00:06:16.660 to the regime

00:06:17.340 and the ones

00:06:18.620 who are conservative

00:06:19.360 and who present themselves

00:06:22.700 as conservative

00:06:23.320 and do it

00:06:23.940 are often much more adept

00:06:26.360 at, you know,

00:06:27.720 religious speak,

00:06:28.540 church speak.

00:06:29.200 They know how to,

00:06:30.560 and they seem slippery

00:06:32.280 is probably maybe

00:06:33.040 the unkind way

00:06:34.360 of saying it,

00:06:34.980 but they know how to say

00:06:37.520 what you expect them to say,

00:06:40.160 but do it in such a way

00:06:42.020 as to basically fill

00:06:45.960 these same words

00:06:46.980 with regime content

00:06:47.720 or bend them to a way

00:06:49.220 that makes Christian practice

00:06:51.820 amenable to regime ideology.

00:06:55.080 So, for example,

00:06:56.100 probably the more prominent ones are,

00:06:58.780 or probably the most prominent

00:06:59.780 would be immigration.

00:07:02.240 You know,

00:07:02.360 so you talk about

00:07:05.600 the care for the stranger

00:07:07.480 and so forth.

00:07:07.900 So all of these ideas

00:07:09.600 get torqued and tweaked

00:07:11.360 so that way

00:07:13.000 basically Christian teaching

00:07:15.000 then,

00:07:16.160 or quote-unquote

00:07:16.980 orthodox Christian teaching

00:07:18.320 lines up with

00:07:19.680 regime ideology

00:07:21.060 and regime programs.

00:07:22.180 And you ask yourself,

00:07:22.720 well,

00:07:22.840 why are they doing this?

00:07:24.080 And that was kind of,

00:07:25.420 and one of the things

00:07:26.840 that you,

00:07:27.520 when you dive into Schmidt

00:07:28.700 and you read

00:07:29.480 a lot of him

00:07:30.560 and you get beyond

00:07:31.400 sort of,

00:07:31.800 you know,

00:07:31.920 the friend-enemy distinction

00:07:33.100 and he who decides

00:07:36.900 the exception is sovereign

00:07:38.240 and these couple

00:07:39.200 of basic ideas.

00:07:40.840 Once you get beyond this,

00:07:41.980 that there's a lot of depth

00:07:42.900 in Schmidt

00:07:43.300 that helps you really understand

00:07:44.920 a lot of the internal

00:07:46.500 contradictions

00:07:47.940 and dynamics

00:07:49.460 in a democratic society

00:07:52.280 that make it inherently unstable

00:07:54.820 and even illegitimate

00:07:58.460 in many ways.

00:07:59.380 And that's,

00:07:59.940 you know,

00:08:00.120 his book,

00:08:00.960 Legality and Legitimacy

00:08:02.140 deals with that.

00:08:03.680 The crisis of the parliamentary

00:08:04.820 democracy

00:08:06.120 deals with many

00:08:07.220 of these same issues.

00:08:08.460 And as he pokes holes

00:08:09.720 in this,

00:08:12.720 in the contradictions

00:08:14.160 in democracy,

00:08:15.300 you can begin to then

00:08:17.080 see how certain behaviors

00:08:19.000 play out in our own time.

00:08:21.900 And one of these

00:08:22.700 is the protection

00:08:25.060 obedience axiom.

00:08:26.840 And that's kind of,

00:08:27.600 I think,

00:08:27.880 what's driving this.

00:08:29.460 Yeah,

00:08:29.580 I think it's really important

00:08:30.520 for people to recognize this

00:08:31.860 because obviously

00:08:33.180 a lot of people

00:08:33.920 probably watching this

00:08:34.960 already understand

00:08:36.040 that something is happening.

00:08:37.360 Like you said,

00:08:37.920 it's very obvious

00:08:38.700 that doctrine

00:08:39.900 is being conformed

00:08:40.800 to something

00:08:41.180 that has nothing

00:08:42.000 to do with scripture,

00:08:42.980 nothing to do

00:08:43.520 with church tradition.

00:08:44.840 And you could recognize

00:08:46.480 this in any other time

00:08:47.700 or place, right?

00:08:48.520 There's the church

00:08:49.120 has been criticized

00:08:50.060 many,

00:08:50.880 many times over

00:08:51.920 across the centuries

00:08:53.140 for conforming itself

00:08:54.680 to any given

00:08:55.960 political power.

00:08:57.100 you still have

00:08:58.180 a lot of progressives

00:09:00.080 who would talk about

00:09:02.040 how the church

00:09:02.720 didn't speak out enough

00:09:04.580 or was too complicit

00:09:05.660 with the National Socialists

00:09:07.420 or someone else

00:09:08.160 throughout history.

00:09:08.880 It's recognized

00:09:09.860 that obviously

00:09:11.020 in many different situations

00:09:13.080 people have gone along

00:09:15.440 with whatever

00:09:17.160 the prevailing

00:09:18.180 political power is,

00:09:19.860 even though they're

00:09:20.680 ostensibly supposed

00:09:21.620 to be first and foremost

00:09:23.420 loyal to the church,

00:09:25.260 to its doctrines,

00:09:26.220 to the teaching of Christ,

00:09:27.200 this kind of thing.

00:09:28.460 And then, you know,

00:09:29.380 they act like today

00:09:30.420 that phenomenon

00:09:30.960 has just disappeared, right?

00:09:32.220 Every other time

00:09:33.060 throughout history,

00:09:33.720 this has been a failing

00:09:34.860 of a church,

00:09:35.400 this has been a temptation

00:09:36.460 that, you know,

00:09:38.020 that spiritual leaders

00:09:39.340 have fallen into.

00:09:40.400 But somehow

00:09:41.120 in the year of our Lord

00:09:42.900 2020,

00:09:43.540 or 2024,

00:09:45.160 except we're not allowed

00:09:45.780 to call it the year

00:09:46.800 of our Lord anymore

00:09:47.500 because we're actually

00:09:48.140 conforming to all

00:09:49.740 of these new dictates,

00:09:51.060 somehow in this time

00:09:52.320 and place,

00:09:52.840 this is the one time

00:09:53.500 that the church

00:09:53.940 is just freed

00:09:54.540 of this influence.

00:09:55.740 And you'll find

00:09:56.260 all these Christian leaders

00:09:57.180 who are just like,

00:09:57.980 yeah, no,

00:09:58.340 suddenly I just,

00:09:59.340 I discovered

00:09:59.980 that actually the Bible

00:10:01.020 says that we have

00:10:02.020 to be open borders

00:10:02.820 and we have to accept

00:10:03.580 like everything,

00:10:05.120 you know,

00:10:05.360 that kind of the current wave

00:10:06.900 of progressive elites

00:10:08.620 are demanding.

00:10:09.800 That just has been

00:10:10.440 in scripture

00:10:10.880 this whole time

00:10:11.640 and we never realized it.

00:10:15.320 And so I do think

00:10:16.180 it's important for people

00:10:17.180 to recognize

00:10:17.920 that obviously like status

00:10:19.140 and all these other things

00:10:20.400 are tied into it.

00:10:21.820 I think the incentive structure

00:10:22.860 for people who want

00:10:24.080 to be morally accepted,

00:10:25.740 you know,

00:10:26.080 even though they're

00:10:26.640 inside the church,

00:10:27.520 they want to be accepted

00:10:28.180 with a larger culture

00:10:29.560 and all of these things

00:10:30.540 is critical.

00:10:31.500 But this protection

00:10:32.620 and obedience aspect

00:10:34.240 is very important

00:10:35.360 because today

00:10:36.200 we so often

00:10:37.480 don't think about this.

00:10:38.960 We don't think

00:10:39.360 that we owe

00:10:40.120 the state anything

00:10:41.280 for its protection.

00:10:42.140 It serves us, right?

00:10:43.220 That's kind of the liberal lie

00:10:45.100 that we tell ourselves

00:10:46.080 that we're,

00:10:46.760 you know,

00:10:46.920 popular sovereignty,

00:10:47.960 we're in charge.

00:10:48.700 These guys are just

00:10:49.460 doing our bidding.

00:10:50.620 And so that helps

00:10:51.660 to blind us

00:10:53.100 to the actual dynamic

00:10:54.220 that happens

00:10:54.820 when you have

00:10:55.700 an interaction

00:10:56.220 between, you know,

00:10:57.600 kind of the state

00:10:58.740 and its subject.

00:11:01.420 And this is one

00:11:02.420 of the things

00:11:03.440 that Schmidt,

00:11:05.940 you know,

00:11:06.380 he said basically

00:11:07.300 that all societies

00:11:08.420 are founded on order.

00:11:11.260 And so,

00:11:13.040 you know,

00:11:14.420 sort of downstream

00:11:15.300 from that

00:11:16.160 is that,

00:11:16.940 you know,

00:11:17.600 violence is at the root

00:11:19.140 of a state.

00:11:19.680 So you establish order

00:11:20.760 through violence.

00:11:21.500 Even in the United States,

00:11:23.860 order was established

00:11:25.400 through violence,

00:11:26.140 not through talking

00:11:27.060 or words

00:11:27.800 or the Constitution.

00:11:29.180 It was established

00:11:30.020 with violence.

00:11:31.680 And then downstream

00:11:34.260 from that,

00:11:36.660 Schmidt argues

00:11:37.360 that no legitimacy

00:11:39.920 or legality

00:11:40.800 can exist

00:11:41.520 without protection

00:11:42.280 and obedience.

00:11:42.860 And what he means

00:11:43.540 is that you owe

00:11:45.480 obedience to the one

00:11:46.940 who protects you.

00:11:48.420 You know,

00:11:48.520 and this is exactly

00:11:50.900 the reason

00:11:52.240 for the Second Amendment

00:11:54.120 and the founders

00:11:55.360 in a sense,

00:11:55.860 whether they hadn't

00:11:56.380 read Schmidt,

00:11:56.900 of course,

00:11:57.380 but they intuitively

00:11:58.280 recognized

00:11:59.400 that if you

00:12:01.760 democratize violence

00:12:02.980 and you spread it

00:12:04.260 around as widely

00:12:05.160 as possible,

00:12:06.040 the theory was

00:12:07.160 that by democratizing

00:12:08.360 violence,

00:12:08.880 you could then break

00:12:10.440 this protection

00:12:11.060 obedience axiom

00:12:12.200 and the people

00:12:15.620 themselves

00:12:16.040 would be able

00:12:16.500 to remain sovereign

00:12:17.500 because they would

00:12:18.560 not owe allegiance

00:12:21.120 to a state

00:12:22.400 that they're reliant

00:12:23.620 upon for their own

00:12:24.340 protection.

00:12:25.180 And that's part of it.

00:12:26.640 So that's kind of

00:12:27.540 the logic behind

00:12:28.540 the Second Amendment

00:12:29.400 is to break

00:12:30.700 this protection

00:12:33.280 and obedience axiom.

00:12:34.540 So you can organize

00:12:35.340 yourselves

00:12:35.780 into your own militias,

00:12:36.800 you can defend yourselves

00:12:37.700 and thus you can

00:12:38.720 retain your sovereignty.

00:12:40.540 Now,

00:12:41.680 in terms of practice,

00:12:42.940 and one of the things

00:12:43.480 I lay out in the piece,

00:12:44.380 you think about,

00:12:45.740 okay,

00:12:45.920 so how does the church

00:12:46.680 play into all of this?

00:12:47.840 So I lay out

00:12:49.240 some of the ideas

00:12:50.100 that you have to remember

00:12:51.120 that the Christians

00:12:53.520 are more than the church.

00:12:55.500 The church is part of

00:12:57.040 or an institution,

00:12:58.480 a formalized institution

00:12:59.840 within the broader

00:13:01.000 people of God.

00:13:02.520 And within the people

00:13:04.380 of God,

00:13:04.660 if you think of them

00:13:05.560 like a nation,

00:13:07.120 like a grouping

00:13:07.960 that way,

00:13:08.840 every community,

00:13:10.720 every grouping like that

00:13:11.720 has political interests.

00:13:13.620 So if you think

00:13:14.320 about the people

00:13:14.920 of God

00:13:15.380 as a people,

00:13:17.760 first and foremost,

00:13:18.940 and you think

00:13:19.540 of the church

00:13:20.040 as an institution

00:13:20.800 within that,

00:13:21.480 then you ask

00:13:22.060 the question,

00:13:22.660 well,

00:13:23.360 who or what

00:13:24.040 protects Christians?

00:13:25.620 What allows them

00:13:26.720 the ability

00:13:27.820 to worship

00:13:28.440 as they see fit?

00:13:29.940 And so there is

00:13:30.720 within the Christian community,

00:13:33.940 there is this necessity

00:13:35.260 for protection.

00:13:37.300 So if you're not

00:13:38.600 protected by anybody,

00:13:39.380 then you're,

00:13:39.840 of course,

00:13:40.080 vulnerable to persecution,

00:13:42.120 right?

00:13:42.940 And so Schmidt lays out

00:13:44.360 a kind of complex argument.

00:13:45.540 He says that

00:13:46.340 because of the protection

00:13:47.580 obedient axiom,

00:13:49.120 he says,

00:13:49.380 at the highest level,

00:13:51.520 the state can demand

00:13:54.260 that you kill 0.66

00:13:55.680 or die for it.

00:13:56.460 This flows out

00:13:57.100 of the concept

00:13:57.640 of the political,

00:13:58.920 right?

00:13:59.060 So the state can demand

00:14:00.260 that you can kill

00:14:01.260 or die for you. 0.83

00:14:02.980 And so what Schmidt

00:14:04.560 then argues

00:14:05.240 that if this thing

00:14:07.260 we call martyrdom

00:14:09.820 and sort of absorbing

00:14:11.980 persecution

00:14:12.540 and surrendering

00:14:13.260 to it consciously,

00:14:14.480 self-consciously,

00:14:15.600 he says that

00:14:16.220 the church

00:14:16.980 as an institution

00:14:17.840 cannot demand

00:14:19.220 that of the people

00:14:20.240 of God

00:14:20.600 because if it were

00:14:21.300 to demand that,

00:14:22.520 it would become

00:14:23.560 a political entity

00:14:24.940 because then it's demanding

00:14:25.940 that you die

00:14:26.500 for the church,

00:14:27.360 right?

00:14:27.520 So that's that whole thing

00:14:28.620 of the concept

00:14:29.120 of the political.

00:14:30.240 So then you have

00:14:31.500 to sort of vest

00:14:32.320 this whole thing

00:14:32.960 outside of the church

00:14:33.980 so that the church

00:14:34.640 can be what it is,

00:14:36.060 which is,

00:14:36.640 you know,

00:14:37.160 ministering the sacraments,

00:14:38.360 teaching the word,

00:14:39.240 discipling the believers

00:14:40.600 and it has to remain that.

00:14:42.280 So then this idea

00:14:43.380 that you die

00:14:44.600 for the gospel,

00:14:45.940 Schmidt says,

00:14:46.460 is a personal choice.

00:14:48.000 So then there is

00:14:48.760 this kind of political element,

00:14:50.180 you know,

00:14:50.340 can anybody in the church,

00:14:52.080 you know,

00:14:52.460 demand it?

00:14:53.000 Well,

00:14:53.220 if somebody were to demand

00:14:54.440 that you die

00:14:55.500 for the church

00:14:56.440 or to kill

00:14:57.440 for the community

00:14:58.540 of believers,

00:14:59.420 then that becomes

00:15:00.500 a sort of political element

00:15:01.900 within the people of God.

00:15:04.480 So there is a sense

00:15:05.900 in terms of,

00:15:06.620 you look at the history

00:15:08.220 of the colonies

00:15:09.360 as people came.

00:15:10.580 So people left Europe,

00:15:11.700 not all of them,

00:15:12.500 but, you know,

00:15:13.280 groupings of them left,

00:15:15.120 the Quakers among them 0.56

00:15:16.380 left coming to the new world

00:15:20.000 precisely so that

00:15:21.500 they could worship

00:15:22.260 in the way

00:15:22.700 that they wanted to worship.

00:15:24.100 So part of the founding then

00:15:26.300 is as they break away

00:15:27.760 from England,

00:15:28.300 as they establish themselves

00:15:29.540 as their own political entity,

00:15:31.240 these groups of Christians

00:15:32.500 see in the American

00:15:35.520 governing institutions,

00:15:36.720 this possibility

00:15:38.100 that these governing institutions

00:15:40.420 will then protect

00:15:42.020 their ability

00:15:42.980 to worship freely

00:15:44.200 the way that they set out

00:15:45.460 to do

00:15:45.740 when they came

00:15:47.280 to the new world

00:15:48.000 to establish these colonies.

00:15:49.780 And so then,

00:15:50.800 you know,

00:15:51.340 whatever admixture

00:15:52.180 you talk about,

00:15:52.980 you know,

00:15:53.160 Christianity,

00:15:53.660 liberalism,

00:15:54.080 all that,

00:15:54.320 just sort of set this aside.

00:15:55.160 There's definitely groups

00:15:56.360 of people

00:15:56.760 in the Christian community

00:15:57.660 who are believing

00:15:58.380 that these new institutions

00:15:59.700 will protect their ability

00:16:02.120 to worship

00:16:02.820 the way they wish to worship.

00:16:04.000 So now,

00:16:04.820 from the very beginning,

00:16:06.460 Christians are in this, 1.00

00:16:07.840 and they may not have

00:16:08.480 recognized it this way,

00:16:09.900 but now they're in this

00:16:11.440 protection,

00:16:12.580 obedience binary.

00:16:14.480 Now,

00:16:15.000 when the broader culture

00:16:16.940 is majoritarian Christian

00:16:19.060 and it seems to reflect

00:16:21.540 the values

00:16:22.220 of a Christian society

00:16:23.340 and Christianity

00:16:24.240 is viewed very positively,

00:16:26.220 this doesn't become a problem

00:16:27.440 because in a sense,

00:16:28.540 the state is very much aligned

00:16:30.140 in many ways

00:16:30.780 with your Christian values.

00:16:31.940 So you can kind of

00:16:33.360 house that political,

00:16:34.060 but as this changes

00:16:35.420 and the state

00:16:37.520 that you once trusted

00:16:38.920 to protect

00:16:39.820 this political aspect

00:16:41.280 turns on you,

00:16:43.920 now what do you do?

00:16:45.600 So now you have,

00:16:46.800 as a Christian community,

00:16:48.580 you've sort of shrank

00:16:49.820 what you are down to,

00:16:51.640 well,

00:16:51.780 we're just the church.

00:16:52.660 We're just about

00:16:53.280 spreading the gospel,

00:16:54.380 preaching the word,

00:16:56.020 and ministering to people,

00:16:57.360 you know,

00:16:57.500 ministering the sacraments

00:16:58.340 and so forth.

00:16:58.840 That's all we are,

00:16:59.840 and we don't have

00:17:01.340 a political element.

00:17:02.700 Well,

00:17:02.900 the problem is,

00:17:03.600 is that yes,

00:17:04.500 you do have

00:17:04.920 a political element,

00:17:06.100 but you gave it over

00:17:07.400 to the state

00:17:08.120 and you entrusted

00:17:09.540 the state to protect you,

00:17:10.860 but now the state

00:17:11.680 is hostile to you.

00:17:13.620 So before we,

00:17:14.040 you're in a,

00:17:14.440 before we get,

00:17:15.540 you're in a conundrum then.

00:17:16.960 Yeah,

00:17:17.120 but before we get

00:17:17.700 too deep into that,

00:17:18.520 because it's all

00:17:19.000 extremely important,

00:17:19.880 but I just want to

00:17:20.760 take the time

00:17:21.500 to maybe state

00:17:22.460 the obvious for people

00:17:23.620 just because I think

00:17:24.440 it's important

00:17:24.960 to make a distinction here

00:17:26.060 because I know

00:17:27.880 what you're saying

00:17:28.320 because I've read Schmidt,

00:17:29.400 but for a lot of people

00:17:31.500 listening to this,

00:17:32.460 it's going to sound

00:17:33.060 very strange.

00:17:33.980 They say,

00:17:34.620 Kriptos,

00:17:35.420 politics is voting.

00:17:37.260 Politics is debating

00:17:39.160 tax policy.

00:17:41.100 It's,

00:17:41.240 you know,

00:17:41.520 it's speeches.

00:17:42.820 It's,

00:17:43.080 you know,

00:17:43.520 some guy on stage

00:17:44.700 in a suit debating

00:17:45.660 another guy.

00:17:46.600 When you say that

00:17:47.640 politics is the ability

00:17:49.040 to compel someone

00:17:50.700 to kill or die, 0.92

00:17:52.600 that doesn't make

00:17:54.660 any sense

00:17:55.340 to the modern

00:17:56.100 Western ear.

00:17:57.080 Can you,

00:17:57.380 can you go into

00:17:57.980 a little more detail

00:17:59.500 as to why that

00:18:00.540 is a political distinction

00:18:01.980 in a way that,

00:18:03.480 you know,

00:18:03.600 the church is not used to?

00:18:06.260 Yeah,

00:18:06.400 so,

00:18:06.640 so Schmidt argues

00:18:08.720 that at the foundation

00:18:09.660 of the political

00:18:10.440 is the sense

00:18:11.880 of a shared community.

00:18:13.140 So what he calls

00:18:13.780 an existential

00:18:14.960 sense of,

00:18:17.480 of self-preservation

00:18:18.820 and survival.

00:18:19.460 So in a sense,

00:18:20.000 there is a defined

00:18:21.320 we,

00:18:22.020 a defined us

00:18:23.240 that has a way

00:18:25.180 of life

00:18:25.720 and we want

00:18:26.800 this way of life

00:18:27.700 to survive.

00:18:29.560 And what Schmidt says

00:18:30.340 that in the world,

00:18:32.540 if you want

00:18:34.060 your way of life

00:18:34.860 to survive,

00:18:35.900 you cannot assume

00:18:37.500 that everyone else

00:18:39.640 in the world

00:18:40.080 is friendly

00:18:40.620 and it's just going

00:18:41.220 to allow you

00:18:42.060 to survive.

00:18:43.100 So at a certain

00:18:44.000 point in time,

00:18:44.580 and this is where

00:18:45.060 this friend-enemy

00:18:45.780 distinction is,

00:18:46.500 is that the world

00:18:47.360 is filled with,

00:18:48.260 you know,

00:18:49.060 hostile entities

00:18:49.940 that don't want

00:18:51.120 you at this

00:18:52.000 we,

00:18:52.400 this group

00:18:52.760 you have

00:18:53.160 to survive.

00:18:54.600 And so Schmidt

00:18:55.080 argues is that

00:18:56.020 the state

00:18:57.220 flows,

00:18:58.640 you know,

00:18:58.960 it's not like

00:18:59.640 Clinton says

00:19:00.120 it's all about

00:19:00.600 the economy,

00:19:01.280 stupid, 0.98

00:19:01.800 but Schmidt

00:19:02.160 instead says

00:19:02.700 it flows

00:19:03.280 not out of

00:19:03.920 business interests

00:19:04.980 or other things,

00:19:05.900 it flows out

00:19:06.720 of a people's

00:19:07.780 desire for

00:19:09.240 self-determination,

00:19:10.100 for them to

00:19:10.700 continue to exist

00:19:11.820 and so forth.

00:19:12.420 So if you think

00:19:13.060 then of the church

00:19:14.260 as a,

00:19:15.680 you know,

00:19:15.820 the people of God,

00:19:16.820 then we have

00:19:18.120 this desire

00:19:18.880 to exist

00:19:20.940 and continue

00:19:21.700 to exist

00:19:22.340 so as a sense

00:19:23.540 the community

00:19:24.180 of God

00:19:24.720 as a Christian

00:19:25.660 community

00:19:26.220 has a political

00:19:28.260 interest

00:19:28.800 and that means

00:19:29.620 you have to

00:19:30.200 then recognize

00:19:30.800 that there's

00:19:31.240 this friend-enemy

00:19:31.800 distinction

00:19:32.220 and in this

00:19:33.400 friend-enemy

00:19:33.820 distinction

00:19:34.200 you run into

00:19:34.900 so we who

00:19:35.960 are friends

00:19:36.460 the we

00:19:36.940 there's hostile

00:19:37.980 enemies

00:19:38.540 or entities

00:19:39.420 out there

00:19:39.980 so then

00:19:40.740 there's this

00:19:41.560 always question

00:19:42.580 in the friend

00:19:43.280 and enemy

00:19:43.720 distinction

00:19:44.260 is

00:19:44.960 are we going

00:19:46.620 to have to

00:19:47.140 kill or

00:19:47.960 die

00:19:48.700 to protect

00:19:50.020 the we

00:19:51.720 the us

00:19:52.260 the friends

00:19:52.900 from them

00:19:54.060 the enemy

00:19:54.680 and the

00:19:56.380 Christian community

00:19:57.160 cannot escape

00:19:58.200 this and you

00:19:58.800 cannot assume

00:19:59.520 that just because

00:20:00.220 you're nice

00:20:00.920 that the world

00:20:01.780 is filled with

00:20:02.460 friends

00:20:02.880 and then so

00:20:03.720 Schmidt then argues

00:20:04.660 then well

00:20:05.700 if you

00:20:06.560 farm out

00:20:08.160 to another

00:20:09.160 entity

00:20:09.760 your protection

00:20:10.720 so let's say

00:20:11.280 you're a small

00:20:11.880 country

00:20:12.320 and there's

00:20:12.720 a big

00:20:13.020 country

00:20:13.460 well the

00:20:14.200 small

00:20:14.480 country owes

00:20:15.160 the big

00:20:15.540 country

00:20:15.860 obedience

00:20:16.300 and if

00:20:17.140 you're a

00:20:17.600 group

00:20:18.020 a defined

00:20:18.860 we

00:20:19.380 within another

00:20:20.120 larger body

00:20:20.860 politic

00:20:21.320 and this

00:20:21.720 larger body

00:20:22.340 politic

00:20:22.780 protects you

00:20:23.680 well then

00:20:24.640 you owe

00:20:25.440 them political

00:20:26.260 obedience

00:20:26.720 so then when

00:20:27.560 the American

00:20:27.940 government

00:20:28.340 calls upon

00:20:29.080 you to

00:20:29.460 die for

00:20:30.240 America

00:20:30.700 you will

00:20:31.660 go and

00:20:32.000 die for

00:20:32.380 America

00:20:32.760 that's you

00:20:33.360 know the

00:20:33.520 draft and

00:20:33.960 so forth

00:20:34.300 but if

00:20:35.360 the Christian

00:20:35.840 now if

00:20:36.380 the Christian

00:20:37.260 community

00:20:37.680 and this

00:20:38.000 government

00:20:38.280 are aligned

00:20:39.040 that's

00:20:39.740 wonderful

00:20:40.220 but if

00:20:41.300 the Christian

00:20:41.780 community

00:20:42.260 and the

00:20:43.120 American

00:20:43.400 government

00:20:43.700 are no

00:20:44.080 longer

00:20:44.360 aligned

00:20:44.540 or the

00:20:44.840 American

00:20:45.280 government

00:20:45.560 is hostile

00:20:46.180 to the

00:20:46.640 Christian

00:20:46.880 community

00:20:47.160 even though

00:20:47.460 the Christian

00:20:47.800 community

00:20:48.120 wants the

00:20:48.780 government

00:20:49.060 to love

00:20:49.760 them

00:20:49.980 this creates

00:20:51.820 a problem

00:20:52.260 now

00:20:52.540 so now you

00:20:53.320 have this

00:20:53.700 question of

00:20:54.200 you're dealing

00:20:54.560 with this

00:20:54.840 hostile

00:20:55.160 entity

00:20:55.660 that you

00:20:56.480 know

00:20:56.620 potentially

00:20:57.360 doesn't want

00:20:57.960 you to exist

00:20:58.440 anymore

00:20:58.760 and what do

00:20:59.080 you do about

00:20:59.480 it because

00:20:59.720 they've been

00:21:00.120 traditionally

00:21:00.540 your protector

00:21:01.140 now you're

00:21:01.960 in real

00:21:02.160 trouble

00:21:02.340 so what do

00:21:02.660 you do

00:21:02.920 yes and

00:21:03.700 this is a

00:21:04.320 critical thing

00:21:05.100 for a lot

00:21:06.040 of Christians

00:21:06.400 to understand

00:21:07.140 because especially

00:21:08.020 the older

00:21:08.600 generation

00:21:09.320 of American

00:21:11.640 Christians

00:21:12.200 they you know

00:21:13.460 you you have

00:21:14.260 the founding

00:21:14.760 it's a Christian

00:21:15.720 nation

00:21:16.200 you see you

00:21:17.540 know the

00:21:17.880 the state

00:21:18.540 and Christianity

00:21:19.860 it that Venn diagram

00:21:21.540 is a circle

00:21:22.260 right it's it's

00:21:23.180 all the same

00:21:23.840 thing it's it's

00:21:24.980 implicit that

00:21:25.700 that everyone

00:21:26.560 between those

00:21:27.440 two

00:21:27.620 I'm sorry

00:21:28.440 there's no

00:21:29.440 light between

00:21:29.960 those two

00:21:30.320 exactly

00:21:30.680 there it's

00:21:31.540 assumed that

00:21:32.040 that everyone

00:21:32.820 is a Christian

00:21:33.440 or you know

00:21:34.340 at least at

00:21:34.880 least culturally

00:21:35.460 Christian

00:21:36.020 everyone is

00:21:36.800 aligned with

00:21:37.300 things of

00:21:37.960 course the

00:21:38.340 state is

00:21:38.740 going to be

00:21:39.200 Christian

00:21:39.540 because everybody

00:21:40.720 who would be

00:21:41.320 involved in the

00:21:41.920 state would be

00:21:42.260 Christian all the 0.88

00:21:42.940 interests of the

00:21:43.500 state would be

00:21:43.840 Christian maybe 0.87

00:21:44.700 they're not

00:21:45.080 perfect you know

00:21:45.700 obviously there's

00:21:46.740 going to be

00:21:46.960 simple people

00:21:47.560 they're going to

00:21:47.940 make mistakes

00:21:48.500 they're going to

00:21:48.860 do bad things

00:21:49.560 but the but

00:21:50.520 they are going

00:21:51.080 to do them in

00:21:51.700 the service of a

00:21:52.500 culture that is

00:21:53.140 Christian this is

00:21:53.720 all the same

00:21:54.360 thing so the

00:21:55.740 the hard thing

00:21:56.760 I think for so

00:21:57.660 many

00:21:58.440 evangelicals and

00:22:00.000 Christians in 0.99

00:22:00.820 general and

00:22:01.420 especially of the

00:22:02.160 older generations

00:22:02.960 to understand is

00:22:04.260 at some point

00:22:05.180 that stopped

00:22:06.320 being the case

00:22:07.340 but they still

00:22:08.180 see all of

00:22:09.040 America and

00:22:09.940 and many other

00:22:11.680 Western countries

00:22:12.340 institutions as

00:22:14.040 just the same

00:22:15.320 thing as as

00:22:16.340 as Christian

00:22:17.460 right these would

00:22:18.260 be the same

00:22:18.780 thing the

00:22:19.560 there have the

00:22:20.860 same definition

00:22:21.560 there like said

00:22:22.420 no light between

00:22:23.040 the two they

00:22:23.840 don't recognize

00:22:24.560 that what has

00:22:25.240 happened as you

00:22:25.960 say is that

00:22:26.500 actually the

00:22:27.740 entity that

00:22:28.560 once gave

00:22:29.000 protection that

00:22:29.620 was dedicated

00:22:30.100 to these things

00:22:30.660 is now completely

00:22:31.480 hostile it sees

00:22:32.320 them as the

00:22:33.480 other and so

00:22:34.500 they can no

00:22:34.980 longer just

00:22:35.500 assume that

00:22:36.320 protection of

00:22:36.920 what the state

00:22:38.680 wants is also

00:22:39.500 protection of

00:22:40.600 what Christian

00:22:41.160 wants it simply

00:22:42.260 does not track

00:22:42.920 for them

00:22:43.300 we hope you're

00:22:44.860 enjoying your

00:22:45.300 Air Canada flight

00:22:46.240 Rocky's vacation

00:22:47.420 here we come

00:22:48.620 whoa is this

00:22:50.240 economy free

00:22:51.460 beer wine and

00:22:52.740 snacks sweet

00:22:54.340 fast free Wi-Fi

00:22:55.780 means I can make

00:22:56.480 dinner reservations

00:22:57.240 before we land

00:22:58.460 and with live TV

00:22:59.940 I'm not missing

00:23:00.920 the game it's

00:23:02.140 kind of like I'm

00:23:03.180 already on vacation

00:23:04.380 nice on behalf

00:23:06.980 of Air Canada

00:23:07.560 nice travels

00:23:08.840 Wi-Fi available to

00:23:10.220 Airplane members on

00:23:10.940 equipped flights

00:23:11.360 sponsored by Bell

00:23:12.040 conditions apply

00:23:12.720 CRCanada.com

00:23:13.880 well and and

00:23:15.440 the the Christian

00:23:16.560 community in this

00:23:17.620 sense has

00:23:18.460 stunted itself

00:23:20.000 because it

00:23:21.320 has

00:23:22.120 um

00:23:22.920 outsourced

00:23:24.160 the the

00:23:25.240 political

00:23:25.720 the

00:23:26.800 it's political

00:23:28.160 identity to the

00:23:29.220 American state

00:23:29.940 and so

00:23:31.160 they've just

00:23:32.140 basically reduced

00:23:33.180 themselves to

00:23:34.520 to the church

00:23:35.640 and that's all

00:23:36.340 that they think

00:23:36.860 of themselves as

00:23:37.620 we as Christians

00:23:38.240 are the institutional

00:23:39.040 church and they

00:23:40.320 don't recognize

00:23:41.140 that there is

00:23:42.340 something large

00:23:42.980 like the church

00:23:43.600 is a subset of

00:23:45.340 the larger Christian

00:23:46.100 community and that

00:23:47.000 there's this inherent

00:23:47.780 political element

00:23:48.780 that with it

00:23:50.520 and so they're in a

00:23:52.100 real you know

00:23:52.680 now what do you do

00:23:54.040 with this and

00:23:54.980 so a lot of

00:23:57.000 these things you know

00:23:57.560 Rene Girard are

00:23:58.780 mimetic um and

00:24:00.540 and this is what

00:24:01.420 Schmidt argues is

00:24:03.020 that um people

00:24:05.080 adapt themselves to

00:24:06.180 power ideas adapt

00:24:07.540 themselves to power

00:24:08.480 and he says this is

00:24:09.240 again one of the

00:24:10.140 conundrums of uh

00:24:12.280 of democracy is

00:24:14.300 that there's this

00:24:16.280 natural adaptation

00:24:17.660 to power and

00:24:18.240 people said no no

00:24:18.860 no you know it's

00:24:19.580 the the the

00:24:20.500 marketplace of

00:24:21.220 ideas everybody

00:24:21.860 brings their ideas

00:24:22.760 strong and they

00:24:23.500 come in and we

00:24:24.040 debate it out and

00:24:24.900 the best idea will

00:24:26.140 win the truth will

00:24:27.100 emerge and

00:24:27.660 Schmidt says that's

00:24:28.640 nonsense he says

00:24:29.520 basically once a

00:24:31.640 power is established

00:24:32.580 and a majority is

00:24:33.460 established all

00:24:34.400 other ideas will

00:24:35.400 adapt to that

00:24:36.160 majority and you

00:24:37.200 see like you see

00:24:37.800 this with the

00:24:38.200 republicans you

00:24:38.780 wonder why are

00:24:39.200 the republicans

00:24:39.800 so spineless well

00:24:40.500 they've they've

00:24:41.060 adapted themselves

00:24:41.760 to power and um

00:24:43.940 and and this is a

00:24:44.860 hard concept for

00:24:46.100 many to to grasp um

00:24:48.640 and and to see in

00:24:49.860 practice but what

00:24:50.700 Schmidt argues is that

00:24:51.920 once you have a

00:24:53.280 majority he says the

00:24:55.160 will of the minority 0.78

00:24:56.400 effectively becomes the

00:24:58.160 will of the majority

00:24:58.960 so if you are not

00:25:01.040 willing to press the

00:25:02.880 point to the point of

00:25:03.960 breaking the system

00:25:04.960 so in other words if

00:25:05.940 you acquiesce and

00:25:07.780 you allow you

00:25:09.380 know a peaceful

00:25:10.100 change of regime

00:25:11.120 or change of power

00:25:11.960 or whatever and

00:25:13.120 there's a new

00:25:13.800 majority you have

00:25:15.320 basically allowed

00:25:16.840 yourself to be

00:25:18.140 disenfranchised um

00:25:20.000 your voice no longer

00:25:21.500 matters um the the

00:25:24.040 the majority sets the

00:25:25.580 policy and whatever

00:25:27.040 voice you think you

00:25:28.640 have is largely a

00:25:30.460 part of the system

00:25:31.460 allowing you to blow 0.72

00:25:32.320 off steam and a

00:25:33.380 function so and this

00:25:34.620 is why everything

00:25:35.220 sort of seems to

00:25:36.000 always kind of drift

00:25:36.900 left because largely

00:25:38.360 in the last since

00:25:39.760 world war ii um the

00:25:41.960 the major power has

00:25:43.100 largely been

00:25:43.760 liberalism and so

00:25:45.440 everything kind of

00:25:46.860 drifts left and all

00:25:47.820 the minority opinions

00:25:48.860 don't and so people

00:25:50.100 say well we have a

00:25:50.840 voice we can argue we

00:25:51.900 can bring our opinions

00:25:52.700 to to to you know

00:25:55.240 to washington and

00:25:56.960 then we can get voice

00:25:57.820 to them and but then

00:25:58.840 you ask yourself well

00:25:59.680 how much has washington

00:26:01.840 really bent to christian

00:26:04.120 opinion i mean you

00:26:05.180 think about i mean we

00:26:07.020 talk about abortion is 1.00

00:26:08.000 the the example i used

00:26:09.080 in the piece and yeah

00:26:10.420 there's been some

00:26:11.320 victories and and and

00:26:12.760 you know the regime

00:26:13.460 doesn't have a hundred

00:26:14.140 percent containment but

00:26:15.460 by and large nothing

00:26:16.820 has really changed since

00:26:17.800 roe v weight even

00:26:18.660 overturning roe v rate

00:26:19.980 really hasn't stopped

00:26:21.180 abortion from happening 0.72

00:26:22.440 yeah the majority wants

00:26:24.400 it to happen well and i

00:26:25.560 think that's really

00:26:26.140 critical because you can

00:26:27.800 tell how that's such a

00:26:29.120 critical example because

00:26:29.900 you can tell how much

00:26:30.960 the opposition quote

00:26:32.820 unquote didn't expect

00:26:34.620 to win that you know

00:26:36.220 it's like it's like the

00:26:37.080 dog catching the car and

00:26:38.360 now has no idea what to

00:26:39.660 do because once they had

00:26:41.420 it right like once once

00:26:42.620 the the long promised

00:26:44.460 battle the victory that

00:26:45.600 was supposed to change

00:26:46.380 everything finally came

00:26:47.560 they all kind of acted

00:26:49.420 like oh what do we do

00:26:50.560 now right like that you

00:26:51.700 like if you if they had

00:26:52.740 ever expected that

00:26:53.780 victory you would

00:26:54.880 imagine that they would

00:26:55.580 have all this spooled up

00:26:56.920 right like they would

00:26:57.520 have all these lawyers

00:26:58.340 ready to go and they'd

00:26:59.340 have all this legislation

00:27:00.340 packed and they have

00:27:01.440 all this line but when

00:27:02.480 it happened it was as

00:27:03.880 if you know it is if

00:27:05.120 someone had just kind of

00:27:05.920 walked up and tapped

00:27:06.640 them on the shoulder

00:27:07.160 and be like by the way

00:27:08.400 you know that lottery

00:27:09.220 you've been playing for

00:27:10.540 you know 20 years you

00:27:12.180 want it right like and

00:27:13.540 here's the here's the

00:27:14.500 billion dollars and

00:27:15.400 they just they had no

00:27:16.900 idea they had no they

00:27:17.920 had been doing it for so

00:27:19.000 long and they had been

00:27:20.140 going through the motions

00:27:21.100 of like useless

00:27:22.340 opposition for so long

00:27:23.720 that when the plan

00:27:24.800 actually worked they

00:27:26.520 were they were just

00:27:27.180 shocked right and you

00:27:28.280 could you could take

00:27:29.080 this and apply it to

00:27:30.260 everything right you

00:27:31.160 we see so much of what

00:27:33.000 is happening you know

00:27:34.120 donald trump getting

00:27:35.060 getting getting convicted

00:27:36.920 you know all of these

00:27:38.500 election laws being

00:27:39.440 changed and everyone

00:27:40.900 just continues to go

00:27:42.080 through the motions in

00:27:42.940 the process because they

00:27:44.920 don't actually expect

00:27:46.240 any anything to change

00:27:48.080 they're just they just

00:27:48.800 know that that's that's

00:27:49.780 the part they play in

00:27:50.800 the system that they

00:27:51.880 have to continue to

00:27:52.800 make the motions of

00:27:53.980 opposition but they're

00:27:55.900 but they don't expect

00:27:56.740 anything to actually

00:27:57.440 interrupt the inevitable

00:27:58.600 progress of kind of the

00:28:00.480 regime regime ideology

00:28:01.980 that's exactly it you

00:28:03.880 accept the system as the

00:28:05.460 system and you have

00:28:06.820 accepted the results of

00:28:08.100 the system and so while

00:28:10.220 you grumble about it and

00:28:11.580 you complain and you're

00:28:12.780 you're constantly

00:28:13.500 complaining it doesn't

00:28:15.900 change anything and so

00:28:17.420 and what schmidt says is

00:28:18.920 you have to recognize if

00:28:20.120 you really you know stare

00:28:21.640 it coldly in the face the

00:28:25.000 will of the majority the

00:28:26.240 will of the minority 0.78

00:28:27.180 becomes the will of the

00:28:28.300 majority and that's the

00:28:29.700 hard truth that a lot of

00:28:31.320 people don't want to face

00:28:32.660 is that once there there

00:28:35.040 is a firm especially if

00:28:36.220 there's a firm majority

00:28:37.040 unless you are willing to

00:28:38.320 break the system and you

00:28:41.020 know to go the the civil

00:28:42.520 war route then you know

00:28:43.460 that happened once where

00:28:44.620 people were willing to

00:28:45.540 break the system and it was

00:28:48.040 awful nobody really wants

00:28:49.180 to do that so you know when

00:28:50.840 you're not willing to break

00:28:51.800 the system you just have to

00:28:52.960 accept as a minority that

00:28:54.520 your will is your political

00:28:56.580 you've been basically

00:28:57.500 disenfranchised and your

00:28:58.640 political opinion doesn't

00:28:59.700 matter anymore and you

00:29:00.680 think it does and you go

00:29:02.520 through the motions like it

00:29:03.620 does but it really doesn't

00:29:05.240 unless you're willing to

00:29:06.480 push the system to the

00:29:07.740 point of breaking and this

00:29:08.500 is what you talk about too

00:29:09.660 and like you know unless

00:29:10.660 the republicans are willing

00:29:11.700 to actually punish

00:29:12.720 democrats when they do

00:29:13.680 happen to to get in power

00:29:15.080 for a bit you know the

00:29:16.620 jig is up that they really

00:29:18.060 have accepted the fact

00:29:18.880 that well really the

00:29:19.620 democrats are the true

00:29:20.460 majority and we're just

00:29:21.240 the minority service we're

00:29:22.080 just basically filling in

00:29:23.060 time to their back in

00:29:23.820 power again anyways and

00:29:25.220 we should take it we

00:29:26.420 should take a moment to

00:29:27.160 also just clarify that

00:29:28.900 when you say will of the

00:29:29.820 majority you don't mean

00:29:31.480 that literally maybe

00:29:32.780 everyone actually believes

00:29:34.540 that this at the

00:29:35.120 beginning but it can

00:29:36.640 often be that an 0.95

00:29:37.460 organized majority

00:29:38.180 majority manufactures the

00:29:39.840 will of that majority

00:29:41.020 but once it has been

00:29:41.880 accepted as the will as

00:29:43.760 once people see that as

00:29:44.980 the legitimate dictate of

00:29:46.840 the majority it doesn't

00:29:48.220 matter if that was the

00:29:49.140 organic opinion of the

00:29:50.620 of the technical

00:29:51.780 majority of the people

00:29:53.060 what's important is it

00:29:54.180 is it is seen as a

00:29:56.180 legitimating mechanism

00:29:57.340 because now it is a

00:29:58.900 majority exactly it is

00:30:00.360 it has been it has been

00:30:01.460 received as the will of

00:30:03.120 the people through you

00:30:04.120 know whether it was

00:30:04.820 manufactured by a small

00:30:05.960 elite or not and that's

00:30:07.860 the one of the things that

00:30:08.460 schmidt notes is that you

00:30:09.900 know this kind of

00:30:10.940 majoritarian consent can be

00:30:12.480 manufactured through

00:30:13.240 propaganda i mean when

00:30:14.000 roe v wade was decided

00:30:15.980 um you know the pro

00:30:17.280 abortion faction was a

00:30:18.720 was a you know a small

00:30:20.040 minority um what twenty

00:30:22.100 thirty percent of the

00:30:22.940 population maybe but you

00:30:24.140 know then the the

00:30:24.900 propaganda machine rolled

00:30:26.540 out and within a few

00:30:28.220 decades you know they

00:30:30.120 they could reasonably

00:30:31.040 claim that sixty to

00:30:32.020 seventy percent of the

00:30:32.800 people wanted at least

00:30:33.780 some form of of of

00:30:36.360 abortion um you know

00:30:38.080 first term under certain

00:30:39.500 very strict conditions but

00:30:40.800 there was always some

00:30:42.280 you know allowance made

00:30:44.040 for abortion in certain

00:30:45.040 circumstances or under

00:30:46.040 certain conditions and

00:30:47.400 that majority has stood

00:30:48.600 and the will of the

00:30:49.360 minority is is

00:30:51.160 effectively disappears in

00:30:52.520 that in that thing so

00:30:53.420 and that then you know

00:30:54.880 brings you to sort of the

00:30:55.940 protection obedience

00:30:57.120 dynamic and and so you

00:30:58.900 live in this in this

00:31:00.220 system where um you know

00:31:02.800 you have minoritarian

00:31:04.000 opinions um so what are

00:31:07.560 you going to then do as

00:31:08.460 a christian um you know

00:31:10.800 so uh if if you you if

00:31:14.500 you want to remain under

00:31:16.260 the protection of the

00:31:17.460 american state you need

00:31:19.500 to adapt and a lot of

00:31:20.740 this adaptation happens

00:31:21.920 mimetically like you know 0.88

00:31:23.180 most church leaders are

00:31:24.860 are seminary trained they

00:31:26.260 have master's degrees or

00:31:27.640 doctorates that means they

00:31:29.340 see themselves as part of

00:31:30.440 the professional classes

00:31:31.600 and um there's a there's

00:31:33.420 a strong um push to be

00:31:37.820 accepted as a peer with

00:31:39.760 your other professional

00:31:40.600 classes and so it creates

00:31:41.740 tremendous pressure to be

00:31:43.200 seen as a peer in good

00:31:44.320 standing among the

00:31:45.160 professional classes and

00:31:46.960 then you know if you you

00:31:48.160 know you want to worship

00:31:48.880 in peace you don't want

00:31:49.760 the state to bother you

00:31:50.800 and you you pick this up

00:31:52.480 nobody has to tell you

00:31:54.000 but if you want to

00:31:55.340 maintain your prestige and

00:31:56.500 position and so forth and

00:31:57.700 you want to worship in

00:31:58.440 peace the the the mimetic

00:32:00.560 current the the vibe so

00:32:02.300 to speak is given out that

00:32:04.000 you are going to have to

00:32:05.740 bend if you want to be

00:32:07.620 accepted in mainstream

00:32:08.900 normal ordinary you know

00:32:12.640 neutral society and if

00:32:14.080 you don't then you're

00:32:14.980 going to be a pariah and

00:32:16.520 that's and I mean who

00:32:17.740 wants to be a pariah so

00:32:19.040 then you begin to subtly

00:32:20.400 adapt or not so subtly

00:32:22.240 adapt and those that are

00:32:23.140 more adept at it um you

00:32:25.340 know and they've been

00:32:25.920 doing it for a lot longer

00:32:27.060 I think than people think

00:32:28.180 like you think of how like

00:32:29.920 I mean most American

00:32:32.620 Christians are basically I

00:32:35.540 mean are fundamentally

00:32:36.440 laissez-faire economic you

00:32:38.380 know um believers in

00:32:39.660 economics well how does

00:32:40.320 that happen I mean

00:32:41.020 laissez-faire economics is

00:32:42.680 not a thing in scripture

00:32:43.540 so how does that happen

00:32:45.180 well Christians have been 1.00

00:32:46.280 adapting to power this

00:32:48.720 whole time as you you

00:32:49.860 mentioned before it's like

00:32:50.720 this is not a new thing in

00:32:51.880 history it's just now the

00:32:54.080 state is no longer aligned

00:32:55.440 and now you have to realize

00:32:58.620 that well we've got to make

00:32:59.800 some significant changes

00:33:00.760 here so you're you know how

00:33:01.940 far do we go you know so

00:33:03.880 now you're seeing churches

00:33:04.880 that are arguing trying to

00:33:06.560 maintain that it's a

00:33:07.400 conservative position that

00:33:09.380 you can identify as gay but

00:33:12.300 as long as you don't act on

00:33:13.880 it you know so if you remain

00:33:14.980 celibate that's okay but if

00:33:17.460 you have a proper you know

00:33:18.680 orthodox biblical

00:33:19.700 understanding of sin um by

00:33:21.740 the time you've identified

00:33:22.920 yourself as gay you're

00:33:24.180 already a homosexual and 0.99

00:33:25.920 that oh I probably shouldn't

00:33:26.980 say that we don't want to get

00:33:27.760 you banned here um but

00:33:29.300 that's kind of the that's

00:33:30.480 that's so that you you see

00:33:32.220 them talking scripture to

00:33:34.300 create a position that they

00:33:36.080 believe will be acceptable to

00:33:38.100 the regime and and and you

00:33:40.100 can see this across the board

00:33:41.560 in so now what happens is then

00:33:44.240 well we're we're you know and

00:33:46.160 this is also why um

00:33:47.440 transgenderism is is so key for

00:33:50.160 the regime because it in many

00:33:51.520 ways takes away the ickiness of

00:33:54.080 sex and just talks about people 0.81

00:33:56.720 you know identifying themselves

00:33:58.660 and how they see themselves you

00:34:00.480 know so we don't want to be mean

00:34:01.840 to people and so now you get

00:34:03.240 this thing well we have to be

00:34:04.060 pastoral to people we have to

00:34:05.440 meet them where they are we have

00:34:07.100 to accept them because that's how

00:34:08.580 God accepts us you know and so

00:34:10.780 you'll see all of this language

00:34:11.920 it has to be missional and so

00:34:13.460 they're they're making all of

00:34:14.520 these adaptations to to the

00:34:16.720 churches theologically so that

00:34:19.040 way they can be accepted in

00:34:21.380 mainstream regime society and and

00:34:23.860 it's happening it's not just

00:34:25.520 happening in the liberal

00:34:26.340 churches it's happening among

00:34:27.600 very conservative churches as

00:34:29.160 well and people are just

00:34:29.900 starting to wake up there and

00:34:30.860 that's really why it's

00:34:31.700 happening though is this

00:34:33.020 protection obedience axiom so

00:34:35.860 one of the things that I was

00:34:37.240 thinking about while I was

00:34:38.800 uh listening to your piece

00:34:40.360 because you you put them on you

00:34:41.760 do podcast readings of them as

00:34:43.140 well which I appreciate as

00:34:44.640 somebody who's very busy um

00:34:46.600 and when I was listening to it

00:34:48.800 the thing that I was thinking

00:34:50.240 is about uh the sharia law

00:34:53.320 communities right we have uh in

00:34:56.020 the United States there was the

00:34:56.980 freak out of you know the we're 0.63

00:34:58.680 we're gonna adapt sharia law and

00:35:00.620 you know the there's gonna be

00:35:01.640 this muslim takeover of the us 1.00

00:35:03.280 uh how ironic at this point

00:35:05.280 right but but that that was that

00:35:07.060 was there was a panic of that for

00:35:08.440 a while because there were

00:35:09.780 legitimately uh you know large

00:35:12.340 muslim communities forming in

00:35:13.720 certain areas and in order to

00:35:15.980 make sure that they did not um

00:35:18.020 you know conform to the new

00:35:20.520 country they found themselves in

00:35:21.840 where they did not feel like the

00:35:23.640 state had their interests in mind

00:35:26.440 uh they were setting up alternative

00:35:28.680 justice systems right they were

00:35:30.400 setting up uh community justice

00:35:32.340 systems that uh avoided

00:35:34.360 interaction with the the official

00:35:37.500 state and this is something that

00:35:40.160 you see pretty much with any kind of

00:35:42.340 minority religion or or cultural

00:35:44.660 group that uh feels itself uh not

00:35:48.040 aligned you know ultimately with kind

00:35:50.620 of the larger state is if they want

00:35:52.340 to maintain uh their their own

00:35:54.960 culture their own identity they have

00:35:57.200 to create a scenario where they are

00:36:00.120 not coming to the state for many of

00:36:02.680 the functions we would normally

00:36:04.320 assume it now obviously you know

00:36:07.000 some of those functions if you

00:36:08.060 challenge are going to get you in

00:36:09.280 serious trouble but for in many of

00:36:11.300 these cases by removing themselves

00:36:13.800 from kind of the the wider prestige

00:36:16.680 apparatus or or or moving many of

00:36:19.560 their disagreements out of the

00:36:20.900 formal legal realm and into one that

00:36:23.020 is more communal uh many of these

00:36:25.200 communities can avoid in many ways uh

00:36:28.220 the influence of otherwise kind of

00:36:31.060 hostile or deleterious regime and you

00:36:34.260 know this is this is not just a

00:36:36.200 phenomenon in the u.s you know one

00:36:38.480 book i reference uh often is the the

00:36:40.820 ancient city uh fustel colonge and he

00:36:43.680 talks about how you know before the

00:36:46.480 the wider roman state really took hold

00:36:48.880 of course all justice was contained

00:36:51.300 inside the tribes inside the gins as the

00:36:53.760 the the patrician families uh had

00:36:57.100 direct you know judicial control they

00:36:59.700 they you brought your problems to that

00:37:02.240 the patriarch he was the judge uh and

00:37:04.820 and that it wasn't until the the state

00:37:07.160 had robbed the the families and the

00:37:09.400 tribes of a large amount of authority

00:37:10.760 that that was transferred into a more

00:37:12.980 formal state apparatus like maybe if you

00:37:15.060 had disagreements between the tribes

00:37:16.560 you had to go to the state but but but all the

00:37:18.960 family business was done inside of inside

00:37:21.500 of the gins and so in many ways i think

00:37:25.580 american christians need to understand

00:37:27.880 that you know they need to separate um

00:37:31.200 make the distinction between the nation

00:37:33.500 and the state we've we've we've conflated

00:37:36.000 those two in kind of our modern formula and

00:37:39.020 understand that many uh peoples are able

00:37:42.060 to maintain identities and communities uh by

00:37:45.500 finding alternative ways to adjudicate uh many

00:37:49.100 of the things that we associate with the

00:37:50.720 current kind of bureaucratic system uh by

00:37:53.360 insulating making their community more

00:37:55.720 insular well and even within scripture this

00:37:59.560 is you know there there is a recognition

00:38:01.600 within the christian community that there is

00:38:06.040 this political element and part of it is is

00:38:10.720 keeping your disputes within the community

00:38:14.700 so that way it doesn't denigrate the name of

00:38:18.260 christ right so there's that passage from

00:38:20.560 1 corinthians 6 you know he said when one of

00:38:23.700 you has a grievance again against another does

00:38:25.720 he dare go to law before the unrighteous inside

00:38:28.140 of the saints or do you not know that the

00:38:29.640 saints will judge the world and if the world is

00:38:32.100 to be judged by you are you incompetent to try

00:38:34.940 trivial cases you know do you not know that you

00:38:37.520 are to judge angels right so there's this whole

00:38:39.780 thing so and so he says you have these people

00:38:43.120 that are outside of the community of believers

00:38:45.200 and you're going to go to them to judge your

00:38:47.820 case you're going to take your disputes in

00:38:50.000 front of the unbeliever and drag the name of

00:38:52.640 christ through the courts but what paul is

00:38:55.000 talking about yeah okay it has an evangel you

00:38:57.360 know an evangelistic function to it but he's

00:38:59.940 really saying that you as a community have to

00:39:03.020 think about yourself as a community and that you

00:39:06.220 you know we live in a sinful world so there's

00:39:08.920 going to be disputes so you guys have to figure

00:39:11.140 out how to resolve those yourselves so you're

00:39:13.820 going to judge the world alongside of christ and

00:39:16.060 you're going to take that role in the last days

00:39:17.840 so why not begin right now so start taking care of

00:39:21.480 your own judicial affairs within your community and

00:39:25.340 don't go to the larger state to adjudicate your own

00:39:29.160 disputes as christians and and so but this shows

00:39:33.000 you know within in paul's mind a sense that this is a we are a people

00:39:38.080 we're we're god's people in christ and we take a lot of these political

00:39:44.080 functions into ourselves now he never used that term political functions but

00:39:47.820 there's a recognition that we need to take care of our own business and that's

00:39:51.900 part of this this this consciousness that we have

00:39:54.860 as a people and so i think this is part of the thing that you know so we have

00:39:58.880 for years and years farm this out but you know most churches have legal codes

00:40:03.680 they have you know dispute recognition you know

00:40:06.600 mechanisms but we have so narrowed down the idea of the christian community

00:40:11.220 that it's just the church and there's nothing else beyond the walls of the

00:40:14.700 church whereas the church should be nested within

00:40:17.480 as an institution within this larger idea of the people of god and that

00:40:21.480 there's a priestly function and there's also this kingly function

00:40:24.960 that we have basically farmed out to the american state and now it's now we're

00:40:30.100 coming up to you know now the problems of doing that when the state's no

00:40:33.160 longer aligned and now we have to sort of scramble to sort of figure out okay so

00:40:37.080 are we going to like basically cock ourselves to the states to to keep

00:40:40.900 ourselves safe or are we going to rediscover ourselves as a people

00:40:43.740 and then you know all the problems that come with that then and the

00:40:46.860 questions that come with that yeah and that's a massive mentality shift and i

00:40:50.800 know that that's you know a lot of people aren't going to make it but i

00:40:53.620 think that those the communities that do make it the communities that are going

00:40:56.920 to thrive the ones that are going to change things will be the ones that

00:41:00.540 recognize the very problems that you're talking about and take that duty upon

00:41:04.360 themselves in many ways hilariously uh you know the americans being told and

00:41:09.480 many and many other people in western democracies have been told that they

00:41:12.700 have popular sovereignty and because they have popular sovereignty they've

00:41:16.160 ceded literally all of the possible sovereignty that an individual or a

00:41:20.800 community could have to the state saying thinking that ultimately that it's it's

00:41:25.820 doing that on their behalf when actually it's basically you know taught them that

00:41:30.700 this learned helplessness where they are no longer able to pick on basic functions

00:41:34.720 of community that used to be inherent in in any uh any civilized people but we're

00:41:39.600 going to go ahead and head over to the questions of the people here before we do

00:41:44.940 kruptos can you tell everyone to find where to find this and all your other

00:41:48.600 excellent work so the the the serious stuff that i do happens on my sub stack

00:41:54.400 um it's a www seeking the hidden thing.com seeking the hidden thing.com

00:42:00.340 and then i have my twitter account um at underscore kruptos and there can be a mix

00:42:06.060 of both serious and my inner 15 year old depending on which day and how tired or

00:42:11.760 um the mood you catch me in so many many such cases twitter twitter many such

00:42:17.560 cases all right uh creeper weirdo says uh okay but how do we uncuck david french anyone

00:42:24.620 uh look um god can do anything but we're gonna have to leave that one too it would take his

00:42:30.620 power it would that would the is we would would need a manifested miracle the laws of our current

00:42:36.240 world would need to be suspended he he is basically the um you know the poster boy for um the protection

00:42:44.080 obedience axiom and and basically giving yourself over to the one who protects you yeah and yeah

00:42:50.380 there's truly no uh truly uh no more obvious example there uh balthazar says uh the american

00:42:57.880 movement should study the solidary movement in communist poland and adapt to the usa preserve your

00:43:03.500 culture and religion at all costs yeah i can't say i'm deeply familiar uh with that particular

00:43:08.200 movement but the overall strategy uh that you're you're alluding to is absolutely critical

00:43:14.020 well one of the things one of the places that people could look is actually in south africa because

00:43:20.140 um erne sven zyle um afroform he talks about how the community gave it all these functions gave

00:43:27.060 its sovereignty over to the state and expected it just to take care of all of a sudden and then

00:43:30.880 itself wound up in this position where it too had a hostile government and so what they have been

00:43:36.080 doing with the afroform is um reclaiming the sovereignty for themselves so they're you know 0.99

00:43:42.460 probably about a decade ahead of us over there but um they're they're doing it largely for ethnic

00:43:48.480 reasons and and in part for religious reasons but i think in in the u.s probably i mean some of it

00:43:54.920 might be be ethnic or racial whatever but i think the bulk of it in this case the real hostility

00:44:00.160 in my mind comes towards the christian community and i think christians are going to have to learn

00:44:04.820 how to reclaim sovereignty for themselves that they have given over to the state in in a number of

00:44:09.800 facets you know in um in clash of civilizations um i can't remember the the author's name off the top

00:44:18.440 of my head all of a sudden uh but uh but he talks about how basically the question in the post-liberal

00:44:26.020 like uh hegemony will be who are we this will be the the question that all civilizations are trying

00:44:31.960 to answer as they separate themselves uh from kind of the the monopolar world and you know he sees this

00:44:38.460 in the civilizational blocks but it could be that we're going to see even more of a fracture as as the

00:44:44.800 the need to recognize the distinction between nations and peoples once again uh becomes what

00:44:50.200 is an american yeah precisely yeah oh it's huntington by the way yes sam huntington yes yes that's right

00:44:56.460 uh and then uh let's see matthew uh platys sorry i probably said that wrong says uh great convo guys

00:45:03.880 first time chatter christians need to put in the work uh what's the normie paleocon christian

00:45:08.900 criticism of hans herman hoppe's works uh my my biggest problem with uh hoppe is that he simply

00:45:17.340 is not recognizing or hop sorry i was at a's for no reason there uh but he i think he his covenant

00:45:26.240 community idea simply does not work i think he's uh doing what so many libertarians do like the vast

00:45:32.480 majority of his work is great because it's it's drawing from bertrand to juvenile he does an amazing job

00:45:37.180 bringing up the problems of democracy and the metaphysics of power so he's the best libertarian

00:45:41.920 because he actually has a theory of power which almost no other libertarian does and that's why

00:45:45.740 he's often shunned in in many libertarian communities because he's he's dangerous because he actually

00:45:51.180 understands power uh but the problem is at the end of the day he's trying to form communities just

00:45:57.420 through contract law uh and that doesn't actually work you can read his essay uh uh like what is to be

00:46:04.640 done i think is the is the separate essay where he goes more into his solutions um but i i feel like

00:46:10.400 that's always the weakest part ultimately the libertarians are just trying to rename the state

00:46:14.320 something else uh and it never quite works yeah i've not read much hoppe but that from what i've

00:46:21.560 you know distilled secondhand that would largely capture it i mean democracy the god the fail is a

00:46:26.600 great book i think everyone should read it i think it's well worth the time even if you have read

00:46:29.920 it's still i think a good update and if you're you know if you're familiar with yarvin or land they

00:46:35.800 also draw heavily from uh hop so it's it's not you know it's worth it's worth reading i'm i'm like i

00:46:42.760 said he's the best libertarian you're gonna spend your time on anybody spend it there uh but i do think

00:46:47.840 ultimately uh kind of kind of falls apart in the the solutions area because the state is as much a

00:46:54.420 reality as this is the libertarians version of communism where they can just create this utopian

00:46:59.100 place where they replace the state and that just it's not real that's that's not it's the oldest

00:47:04.100 form of social organization uh next to the family in fact it's in many cases just an extension of

00:47:10.000 the family it will always arise that the libertarians are often ignoring the reality of violence when they

00:47:15.460 attempt to uh and state violence when they try to uh kind of create the system just out of contract law

00:47:21.300 and that means it always comes up short all right guys we're gonna go ahead and wrap this up but

00:47:27.600 once again of course make sure to check out kruptos's work it's always great always fantastic

00:47:32.500 to have him on if it's your first time on this channel make sure you go ahead and subscribe turn

00:47:37.300 on the notifications click the bell so you can catch these streams when they go live a little late today

00:47:41.300 because i had to travel uh but we'll be back to our normal times for the rest of the week uh of course

00:47:46.480 if you'd like to get these broadcasts as podcasts make sure that you go ahead and subscribe to the

00:47:50.520 oregon mcintyre show on your favorite podcast platform if you'd like to get a copy of my book

00:47:55.620 the total state uh you can go ahead and do so at your favorite local bookstore you can find it on

00:48:00.820 amazon barnes and noble books a million all those places thank you so much for watching guys and as

00:48:05.040 always i will talk to you next time

00:48:07.040 you

The Auron MacIntyre Show - June 10, 2024

Regime Christians and the Obligation of Protection ｜ Guest： Kruptos ｜ 6⧸10⧸24

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