The Auron MacIntyre Show - Replacing the Deep State ｜ Guest： Andrew Kloster ｜ 5⧸22⧸24

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00:00:30.000 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.620 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.360 I've got a great episode with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.860 The number one question I get asked when people are talking about the possible next Trump term is,

00:00:45.340 has he learned his lesson?

00:00:46.960 Does he understand the importance of staff?

00:00:49.460 Does he understand the necessity of turning out the deep state,

00:00:52.180 replacing the deep state with capable people,

00:00:55.280 and being ready to fight the inevitable legal battles that will come,

00:00:58.640 as we're obviously seeing all the different legal attacks that are happening to Trump,

00:01:02.740 and have happened to his staff since his first administration.

00:01:07.180 And I think that there is a real effort.

00:01:09.660 I think there are people who are aware of that problem.

00:01:12.160 Today, I'm bringing you Andrew Kloster, who is one of those guys who worked on the first Trump camp,

00:01:18.000 or rather the first Trump administration,

00:01:19.960 and is very aware of these situations,

00:01:21.380 and is working to set up organizations that will help make sure that next time,

00:01:25.780 if Trump is elected, that they are prepared to hit the ground running.

00:01:29.260 And we want to talk about these different organizations that he's set up,

00:01:32.400 including the Legal Defense Fund,

00:01:34.000 that will help new administrative personnel protect themselves in the case of any kind of legal situation.

00:01:40.760 But before we get to all that, guys,

00:01:42.560 really quickly, I want to remind you that, of course, the Blaze has great merch.

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00:02:23.620 All right.

00:02:24.120 So, Andrew, we've talked before, and I think people understand,

00:02:30.240 like we've said in the previous episode we had,

00:02:32.900 that the biggest issue that it felt like the Trump administration faced

00:02:37.920 was the staffing issue, that in so many different places,

00:02:42.260 the president's agenda was blocked by people who were in the administration

00:02:46.780 or people who were left over from previous administrations who were hindering policy

00:02:50.800 weren't really on board with the vision of the administration trying to move the ball forward.

00:02:55.920 I know that you've recently started a legal defense fund,

00:02:58.960 and I really want to get into that,

00:03:00.720 but I think we first have to lay down kind of the groundwork.

00:03:04.420 What is the people around Trump,

00:03:07.900 the people who are involved in the idea of a new Republican administration,

00:03:11.820 what are they doing to address those issues that so many people are worried about,

00:03:15.320 that if Trump gets reelected,

00:03:16.700 it's just a reenactment of him fighting the deep state the entire time?

00:03:19.700 So, I've paid a lot of attention to personnel.

00:03:23.580 I was at the Heritage Foundation for years,

00:03:25.620 and I would write papers on the civil service and other things,

00:03:29.580 and, you know, it's a tough issue because,

00:03:33.060 like so many issues where the majority has strong opinions,

00:03:36.340 but there's no concentrated minority,

00:03:38.080 it's really tough to get policy enacted.

00:03:41.780 You know, if you want a gimme, if you want an oil or a tax cut,

00:03:44.860 you know, an oil rag or a tax cut,

00:03:46.560 there's a lot of money, and it's a concentrated issue.

00:03:48.680 But personnel and the civil service is so broad,

00:03:52.280 it's kind of impossible,

00:03:53.860 and everyone understands it's important now,

00:03:55.540 but it's kind of impossible to get your head around.

00:03:57.200 So, I'm just very pleased.

00:03:58.880 I think we're in a way better position than we were in 2016.

00:04:02.040 You know, I was at Heritage, you know, and I was surrounded.

00:04:04.480 I mean, the building was split in half.

00:04:05.920 It was Cruz people, and it was Rubio people, really.

00:04:08.100 And they just didn't understand kind of what was needed.

00:04:14.180 And they're, you know, and I've now gone back and looked at transition plans,

00:04:18.460 really going all the way back to Nixon,

00:04:20.740 and I've seen how people have done the staffing,

00:04:22.960 and I got a lot of inside information when I was in the White House

00:04:25.820 doing personnel under Trump.

00:04:27.900 And I guess, I just think, you know, it's 2024 now,

00:04:32.860 and it's sort of let a thousand flowers bloom, to quote Mao.

00:04:36.180 We've got lots of orgs that are great, staffed with great people.

00:04:40.560 You know, some are sideways on this issue or that issue

00:04:42.760 or this personality or that personality

00:04:44.420 or kind of what they're doing.

00:04:45.980 You know, no one's perfect,

00:04:47.060 but it's just there's just so much better stuff out there

00:04:49.960 that Trump will have and his team will have

00:04:52.860 really the universe to pick from.

00:04:54.960 Whereas in 2016, we didn't really have that many people to pick from.

00:04:58.540 You know, the lobbyists came in, McConnell came in,

00:05:01.120 Trump did the thank you tour,

00:05:02.540 and instead of staffing went and fundraised again,

00:05:05.340 you know, in late 2016.

00:05:08.440 So I think everyone understands the issue now,

00:05:10.640 and we've got a lot more work product done,

00:05:12.540 and we've got much better data on personalities as well,

00:05:15.160 and we have a much clearer idea of what the Trump agenda is.

00:05:18.760 Do you think that this shift has been felt in,

00:05:23.300 I know Heritage has kind of focused on the importance

00:05:27.060 of making sure you have, excuse me,

00:05:29.720 you have a competent bureaucracy moving in,

00:05:31.560 you have people who are ready to take over those jobs.

00:05:34.080 Do you feel like the, that the wider party,

00:05:37.360 not just some of these think tanks,

00:05:39.580 but do you feel like congressmen and others

00:05:41.660 who are involved in this process

00:05:42.820 are starting to understand that their battle

00:05:44.780 is not just at the legislative level,

00:05:46.640 it's not just going ahead and, you know,

00:05:48.920 winning an election or passing any specific agenda,

00:05:52.280 though that is critical,

00:05:53.600 but making sure that they are training up

00:05:55.520 a new leadership class

00:05:57.040 so that we're not just looking at this election

00:05:59.800 or looking at this particular staff,

00:06:02.460 though that, of course, that'll be critical,

00:06:04.120 but that there is a generational learning process,

00:06:08.240 there's a way to raise up leaders

00:06:09.960 where you're going to have those competent people

00:06:12.380 moving into these positions on a regular basis.

00:06:14.580 Do you think that understanding

00:06:15.460 is widening in the movement?

00:06:17.560 I definitely think the base gets it,

00:06:20.460 and I think a number of, you know,

00:06:23.440 members of Congress, senators,

00:06:24.880 and other folks get it.

00:06:25.820 Trump certainly gets it. 0.94

00:06:26.920 I think people get it now,

00:06:28.360 but look, when you poll Americans,

00:06:32.300 what's your opinion of Congress?

00:06:33.940 It's like really, really low.

00:06:35.640 But then when you poll their individual congressperson,

00:06:37.880 they're like, well, I like that guy.

00:06:38.940 And it's the same with hiring.

00:06:40.420 Everyone understands hiring is so important

00:06:42.120 and every decision matters,

00:06:43.680 but every single personnel decision you make

00:06:46.400 involves so many personalities.

00:06:48.620 And while I like, you know,

00:06:49.340 I know that guy's not great,

00:06:50.480 but I like him or I owe him a favor

00:06:52.240 or it's going to get me a favor over here or over there.

00:06:54.900 So the fact that we understand

00:06:57.600 the big picture problem

00:06:58.620 doesn't necessarily operationalize.

00:07:01.120 So there are a lot of things

00:07:02.560 that we need to see be done.

00:07:04.500 But I think that base interest

00:07:06.600 and the issue is really heartening.

00:07:08.200 Again, I'm writing papers in 2014, 2013

00:07:10.420 with James Shirk,

00:07:12.080 who, you know, I linked up again

00:07:13.720 with in the White House.

00:07:14.640 We worked on Schedule F and stuff

00:07:16.120 and implementation.

00:07:17.040 And then now he's at AFPI.

00:07:18.700 Great guy.

00:07:19.480 I wrote papers with the former general counsel.

00:07:22.000 And then I later was acting general counsel at OPM.

00:07:24.700 No one cared.

00:07:25.620 Like, you know, at Heritage,

00:07:26.540 I wrote enough that I could kind of

00:07:28.000 do these vanity projects

00:07:29.780 or things I was interested in.

00:07:31.940 But, you know,

00:07:32.880 you don't raise money off of that.

00:07:34.280 I think now, actually,

00:07:35.720 as soon as you can raise money

00:07:36.880 off of Drain the Swamp,

00:07:37.940 it actually becomes a real thing.

00:07:39.660 So we're seeing a lot of groups,

00:07:42.080 you know, Heritage is,

00:07:43.140 I think, the big bear in the room.

00:07:44.320 I've been very involved

00:07:45.120 and it's a lot of our former White House

00:07:46.560 and other teams.

00:07:47.220 They're great people.

00:07:48.420 I think Kevin's done great work fundraising

00:07:50.020 and boosting the project

00:07:51.520 and helping manage it.

00:07:52.840 So I'm very optimistic,

00:07:55.020 not because I think,

00:07:56.660 I'm a stoic about these things.

00:07:58.480 So it's not that everything is perfect.

00:08:00.980 It's that we're actually doing

00:08:02.940 objectively correct things,

00:08:04.640 which will give us

00:08:05.540 a better chance of success.

00:08:07.960 So let's dig a little bit

00:08:09.200 into those things

00:08:10.080 because I've seen the media

00:08:11.580 start to get worried.

00:08:12.600 And I think that's always a good sign

00:08:13.940 when you start getting

00:08:14.680 these different think pieces

00:08:16.640 from different outlets

00:08:18.180 like Politico and whatnot.

00:08:19.920 And it's the,

00:08:20.980 oh, the scary understanding

00:08:22.200 that Trump will turn out

00:08:23.540 the bureaucracy,

00:08:24.220 that he'll replace everybody

00:08:26.540 with his own people.

00:08:27.840 It's like, yeah, right.

00:08:28.880 What he should do,

00:08:29.840 like how you actually take control

00:08:31.380 of the executive branch there.

00:08:33.700 They're starting, you know,

00:08:34.660 to tell this horrible story

00:08:36.620 of a guy who goes in

00:08:37.760 and switches out

00:08:38.760 all of the people

00:08:39.380 who are dedicated

00:08:40.080 to their current progressive agenda

00:08:42.380 and actually replaces them

00:08:43.620 with somebody.

00:08:44.360 But what does that look like?

00:08:45.560 I know, obviously,

00:08:46.220 that you're trying

00:08:46.840 to identify talent

00:08:47.900 and raise up talent

00:08:49.120 inside organizations

00:08:50.400 attached to places

00:08:52.100 like the Heritage Foundation.

00:08:54.000 You talked a little bit

00:08:54.980 about Schedule F,

00:08:55.880 but what are some

00:08:56.360 of the mechanisms

00:08:57.000 or what are some

00:08:58.040 of the maybe particular

00:08:59.280 areas of focus

00:09:00.920 where you would work

00:09:02.000 to immediately try

00:09:02.920 to strip out

00:09:03.720 entrenched leftist ideology

00:09:06.540 and go ahead

00:09:07.340 and deploy some

00:09:08.940 of the people

00:09:09.260 who you think

00:09:09.840 would be able

00:09:10.260 to manage things

00:09:10.940 in Trump's interest,

00:09:12.760 his agenda?

00:09:13.740 Well, I think

00:09:14.180 with many projects,

00:09:15.740 there's a scoping problem

00:09:16.840 because you're building

00:09:17.520 multiple things at once

00:09:18.500 that implicate

00:09:19.200 multiple things at once.

00:09:20.840 And I think on this,

00:09:21.800 it's personnel

00:09:22.440 and it's policy.

00:09:23.460 And we understand

00:09:23.900 if you have bad personnel,

00:09:24.700 you can't get the policy,

00:09:25.680 but you also kind of need

00:09:26.660 to know the policy

00:09:27.360 to be able to identify

00:09:28.940 what personnel you want

00:09:30.180 because we're not liberals.

00:09:31.960 We don't believe

00:09:32.400 that every person's fungible

00:09:33.560 just with managerial,

00:09:34.700 technocratic know-how.

00:09:36.820 So I think,

00:09:37.820 and that's kind of,

00:09:39.040 I think,

00:09:39.460 sort of how Heritage operated.

00:09:41.300 You know,

00:09:41.560 first they did

00:09:42.480 sort of a somewhat

00:09:44.340 lowest common denominator

00:09:45.460 giant policy wish list

00:09:47.020 and then sort of worked

00:09:48.520 on a database of people.

00:09:51.100 They're continuing

00:09:51.460 to work on a database

00:09:52.280 of people.

00:09:53.000 And you also have

00:09:54.340 to identify

00:09:54.960 really what target

00:09:57.280 components or agencies

00:10:00.880 are very important.

00:10:03.360 You know,

00:10:03.520 I have instincts,

00:10:04.160 we all have instincts on that.

00:10:05.320 So you're kind of

00:10:06.320 building everything at once.

00:10:07.460 I think at the highest level

00:10:09.220 what you want is,

00:10:11.560 I mean,

00:10:11.840 I would say

00:10:12.180 the number one thing

00:10:13.060 that you want

00:10:13.800 government-wide

00:10:15.020 is an understanding

00:10:17.780 that personnel

00:10:19.160 is difficult

00:10:20.120 and will get you

00:10:20.880 a lot of blowback.

00:10:21.860 So you need to have

00:10:22.980 the willingness

00:10:23.460 to see it through.

00:10:25.000 I heard time and again

00:10:25.860 from agency heads,

00:10:26.700 I interviewed a bunch of them.

00:10:28.100 You know,

00:10:28.200 I did all these,

00:10:28.860 you know,

00:10:29.120 loyalty test interviews,

00:10:31.300 which that's not

00:10:31.940 what they were,

00:10:32.500 but I would get a lot

00:10:33.380 of data from agency heads

00:10:34.540 and it's time and again

00:10:35.760 you hear the refrain,

00:10:36.840 I can either spend my time

00:10:38.380 working on policy

00:10:39.600 or I can spend my time

00:10:41.200 cleaning house

00:10:42.960 and I can't do both.

00:10:44.100 And I think

00:10:44.540 that needs to be broken.

00:10:46.800 People need to understand

00:10:47.660 that they need

00:10:48.260 to clean house.

00:10:48.880 So we need,

00:10:49.380 we need barn burners, 0.65

00:10:50.820 people with backbone,

00:10:51.680 it needs to be government-wide

00:10:53.020 so that everyone

00:10:53.580 has air cover.

00:10:54.880 It needs to be thoughtful

00:10:56.100 and we also,

00:10:57.900 for most of the planning

00:10:58.780 that I do in politics,

00:10:59.900 you need to understand

00:11:00.920 two or three

00:11:01.960 or four steps down

00:11:02.940 and you also need

00:11:04.200 to understand

00:11:04.740 and plan for failure

00:11:06.220 because there will be failure.

00:11:07.580 Someone will get fired

00:11:08.360 who shouldn't get fired.

00:11:09.600 Someone will not get fired

00:11:10.500 who should get fired.

00:11:11.200 Someone will get hired

00:11:11.900 who shouldn't get hired.

00:11:12.820 There's going to be

00:11:13.300 media snafus

00:11:14.220 and you need to preload

00:11:16.960 because politicians

00:11:18.260 and political appointees

00:11:20.600 or politicians

00:11:21.320 to a large degree.

00:11:23.920 You know,

00:11:24.160 their instincts

00:11:24.820 are often really bad

00:11:26.720 off the cuff

00:11:28.140 and so they need

00:11:29.160 to have a battle plan

00:11:30.340 that kind of explains

00:11:31.400 to them the up

00:11:32.180 and the downs

00:11:32.720 and so when something happens

00:11:33.720 it's not a shock to them.

00:11:36.160 So, you know,

00:11:36.800 if they hire someone

00:11:37.520 who gets media blowback

00:11:39.340 for saying something

00:11:40.160 based on Twitter

00:11:40.960 eight years ago,

00:11:42.380 their immediate instinct

00:11:43.580 is not going to be

00:11:44.180 fire the person.

00:11:45.000 They will have a piece 0.98

00:11:45.620 of paper in front of them

00:11:46.360 that tells them,

00:11:47.960 you know,

00:11:48.300 call so-and-so

00:11:49.920 at the White House

00:11:50.580 or call so-and-so

00:11:51.560 or, you know,

00:11:52.640 convene a meeting about it

00:11:53.720 and just kind of discuss it

00:11:54.880 and don't respond,

00:11:56.320 wait and see,

00:11:57.420 wait two weeks

00:11:58.220 and then it'll blow over.

00:12:00.080 You know,

00:12:00.260 if they have that kind

00:12:01.020 of reasonable plan

00:12:02.360 then they are

00:12:02.980 on much better footing.

00:12:04.080 So I think

00:12:04.400 the number one thing

00:12:05.060 is just planning

00:12:06.320 to provide the training

00:12:07.380 and the thumos

00:12:08.180 to a lot of these people.

00:12:10.260 But then beyond that,

00:12:11.080 obviously all of what Heritage

00:12:12.240 and other groups

00:12:12.780 have done AFPI

00:12:14.480 or on group PPO,

00:12:15.940 there are a lot

00:12:16.380 of groups out there

00:12:17.020 that are,

00:12:17.940 you know,

00:12:18.300 every little group

00:12:18.880 now has a personnel database,

00:12:20.980 American Moment.

00:12:22.080 There are just so many groups

00:12:22.980 out there that have,

00:12:24.220 that make a serious effort

00:12:25.360 at identifying

00:12:26.420 and vetting

00:12:27.060 with a lot of different metrics

00:12:28.580 people

00:12:29.820 and then training them up.

00:12:30.960 So I think the movement

00:12:31.840 is in a much better place.

00:12:35.280 I know that a lot of people

00:12:36.660 have looked at

00:12:38.000 different organizations

00:12:39.320 inside the executive branch

00:12:41.360 and the kind of

00:12:42.000 the wider swamp

00:12:42.720 as we'd call it

00:12:43.540 and said,

00:12:44.460 okay,

00:12:44.820 maybe you can swap

00:12:45.840 in the base personnel.

00:12:47.200 You're obviously,

00:12:47.840 that's your main goal

00:12:48.580 is to go ahead

00:12:49.180 and replace

00:12:49.840 a lot of this bureaucracy

00:12:51.100 with people

00:12:51.700 who are going to be loyal

00:12:52.420 to Trump

00:12:52.800 are going to

00:12:53.880 faithfully execute

00:12:55.080 his vision

00:12:56.300 and the policy correctly.

00:12:58.500 But often we look

00:12:59.780 at some of these things,

00:13:00.620 some people look

00:13:01.180 at the FBI

00:13:01.660 and say this organization

00:13:03.200 is so corrupt

00:13:04.060 to its core. 0.97

00:13:05.000 Obviously,

00:13:05.340 I'm not going to ask you here

00:13:06.340 if you plan to shatter

00:13:07.100 the FBI.

00:13:07.900 But my question is,

00:13:09.780 have you guys

00:13:11.040 identified any organizations

00:13:12.760 or any structures

00:13:13.900 inside the executive branch

00:13:15.280 that are just unsalvable,

00:13:17.500 unsalvageable in your eyes

00:13:19.080 that that personnel

00:13:19.800 would not solve the problem?

00:13:21.440 And so a complete restructuring,

00:13:23.200 dismantling,

00:13:24.020 and recreation

00:13:24.720 of certain operations

00:13:26.600 might be necessary

00:13:27.900 if you're really going

00:13:28.820 to get the agenda done.

00:13:30.340 Yeah,

00:13:31.000 you know,

00:13:31.540 I'm not,

00:13:32.200 I'm more of a Vermillion

00:13:33.580 about the,

00:13:34.040 I'm not,

00:13:34.440 there's nothing

00:13:34.780 that I can really say

00:13:35.380 that I think

00:13:35.700 is structurally gone,

00:13:37.260 but I can certainly

00:13:38.240 identify

00:13:39.000 what I consider

00:13:40.860 to be choke points

00:13:41.840 and I'm speaking

00:13:42.520 for myself

00:13:43.100 because I don't think

00:13:44.420 any org has come out

00:13:45.420 with a hit list yet

00:13:46.340 of this is the priority list.

00:13:48.380 I think they should,

00:13:49.280 I think they will,

00:13:50.180 different groups.

00:13:52.320 And certainly that,

00:13:53.260 ultimately,

00:13:53.800 ultimately I should just say

00:13:54.720 all of this is up to Trump

00:13:56.120 as the,

00:13:56.860 you know,

00:13:57.560 presumptive Republican nominee

00:13:58.960 and presumptive

00:13:59.960 or hopefully next president.

00:14:01.780 He'll have to run the transition,

00:14:03.020 he'll have a transition lead,

00:14:04.020 they will identify

00:14:04.860 their landing,

00:14:05.460 you know,

00:14:06.300 they may not even call it

00:14:07.040 a landing team

00:14:07.660 because that's sort of

00:14:08.320 Bush era stuff,

00:14:09.180 but they'll have to identify

00:14:10.400 their transition plan.

00:14:11.420 So,

00:14:12.180 but I do have my own hit list

00:14:14.120 for different things

00:14:15.680 sort of based on,

00:14:16.880 you know,

00:14:18.160 the ease of getting

00:14:19.100 someone in there

00:14:19.880 and the authority

00:14:20.800 that they control

00:14:21.520 and the ability they have

00:14:22.620 with good people

00:14:23.340 to juice each other.

00:14:24.700 Because if you've got

00:14:25.380 one awesome agency head

00:14:27.400 at the top of

00:14:28.280 pick your agency,

00:14:29.600 DOJ,

00:14:30.060 let's say we have

00:14:30.500 the best person,

00:14:31.360 Jeff Sessions,

00:14:31.940 really a great person,

00:14:33.080 I think personally,

00:14:34.380 not in some ways

00:14:36.740 the best manager,

00:14:37.680 had surrounded himself

00:14:38.640 not with great people,

00:14:41.100 you know,

00:14:41.980 and we saw the results of that.

00:14:44.020 So you really need a team.

00:14:45.500 And the more people

00:14:46.340 you get in different choke points,

00:14:47.580 the better,

00:14:48.640 they can kind of force multiply.

00:14:50.020 So if you get a good guy

00:14:50.740 at personnel,

00:14:51.840 they can lean on someone

00:14:52.900 on regulations,

00:14:53.700 who can lean on someone

00:14:54.740 on legislation,

00:14:56.040 and the next thing you know

00:14:56.760 you get a snowball effect.

00:14:57.840 So I,

00:14:58.220 you know,

00:14:58.620 my personal view is

00:14:59.820 I think places like OIRA,

00:15:01.680 which is the Office

00:15:02.560 of Information

00:15:03.160 and Regulatory Affairs

00:15:04.200 at OMB,

00:15:05.160 they have government-wide,

00:15:06.340 they can hold up regulations

00:15:07.480 until the admin

00:15:09.060 wants them to go out.

00:15:10.400 So any secretary

00:15:11.640 can propose a rule

00:15:12.920 and put it out,

00:15:13.660 but it's got to get approved

00:15:14.720 by OIRA.

00:15:15.780 That's not precisely

00:15:17.620 mandated by law,

00:15:19.640 you know,

00:15:19.820 it's kind of wiggle room.

00:15:21.100 So this person

00:15:21.640 isn't really exercising authority,

00:15:23.280 they're just a hold up.

00:15:24.480 And so I like to look

00:15:25.500 at these hold up places

00:15:26.460 where you can exercise

00:15:27.440 political authority.

00:15:28.420 OIRA is one,

00:15:29.200 White House Counsel's another,

00:15:30.120 I think the Office

00:15:31.580 of Legal Counsel at DOJ

00:15:32.920 that reviews executive orders

00:15:34.340 and other stuff,

00:15:35.580 that's another one.

00:15:37.700 There are just a lot

00:15:38.320 of these governments,

00:15:38.860 OPM is certainly

00:15:39.660 a big, huge one

00:15:40.780 because they have,

00:15:42.120 they can delegate out

00:15:43.080 accepted service authority

00:15:44.640 and other hiring authorities

00:15:45.800 and they have,

00:15:46.820 they get reports and things.

00:15:47.900 There are a lot

00:15:48.360 of these choke points

00:15:49.460 where,

00:15:50.720 which I would personally

00:15:52.240 prioritize,

00:15:53.340 often because these people

00:15:54.820 aren't even Senate confirmed

00:15:55.820 or you can have someone acting,

00:15:57.200 their job is not

00:15:57.920 to put stuff out

00:15:58.600 but to hold stuff up

00:15:59.520 and holding stuff up

00:16:00.760 often is a bigger,

00:16:02.320 there's just as big a deal

00:16:03.360 as putting something out.

00:16:05.580 Yeah, so I'll just stop there.

00:16:07.280 No, I mean,

00:16:07.720 it's great that you guys

00:16:08.580 are identifying those choke points,

00:16:10.160 like you said,

00:16:10.600 those critical nodes

00:16:12.160 because even if you can't

00:16:13.100 reform the whole system

00:16:13.920 right away,

00:16:14.980 taking control of those,

00:16:16.480 being aware of how power flows

00:16:17.880 and where you can best

00:16:19.020 exert your influence

00:16:19.820 is critical.

00:16:20.780 And I would just say,

00:16:21.600 like on the FBI,

00:16:22.540 I think the FBI,

00:16:23.780 you know,

00:16:23.940 I always heard different people,

00:16:25.980 you know,

00:16:26.300 we've got lots of whistleblowers

00:16:29.420 at the FBI

00:16:30.080 and that's still the case.

00:16:30.960 There are a lot of great people

00:16:31.940 at the FBI,

00:16:32.760 particularly in the field offices,

00:16:34.000 but we've definitely seen a lot

00:16:35.240 come out of Congress

00:16:36.120 related to the weaponization

00:16:38.240 of the FBI,

00:16:39.500 you know,

00:16:39.660 the Foreign Interference Task Force,

00:16:41.100 the Washington Field Office,

00:16:42.140 a lot of these places

00:16:43.100 were definitely stacked.

00:16:44.980 And certainly,

00:16:45.460 I think the HR manager,

00:16:48.180 the operations and HR manager

00:16:50.320 at FBI

00:16:51.300 is particularly bad.

00:16:53.040 We kind of know that now,

00:16:53.960 retaliating against people

00:16:55.440 and things like that.

00:16:56.620 So that might be an easier fix,

00:16:59.700 but then there are

00:17:00.280 big, huge delegated authorities

00:17:01.740 to them

00:17:02.140 that you get almost no view on

00:17:04.680 that's really difficult.

00:17:05.400 Like if you're looking at

00:17:06.520 Section 702 FISA

00:17:08.440 or anything else classified,

00:17:09.800 I mean,

00:17:09.960 classification in the intel community

00:17:11.520 is really, really difficult

00:17:12.700 because, you know,

00:17:14.320 senators and members of Congress

00:17:15.720 and I mean,

00:17:16.240 I'm just looking at

00:17:16.980 Speaker Johnson

00:17:18.300 and how he was opposed

00:17:20.600 to warrantless wiretaps.

00:17:23.000 And then he says,

00:17:23.460 well, I suddenly became Speaker

00:17:25.000 and got some super

00:17:25.780 double-secret briefing.

00:17:27.440 It's like,

00:17:27.740 well, first of all,

00:17:28.580 why aren't other members

00:17:29.600 getting that super-secret briefing?

00:17:30.960 They're presumably

00:17:31.420 all on the same footing.

00:17:32.660 And second of all,

00:17:34.080 you know,

00:17:34.460 why, you know,

00:17:35.980 what could have possibly

00:17:36.820 changed your mind?

00:17:37.460 So I think there are

00:17:38.640 certainly black boxes too.

00:17:40.760 So some places

00:17:42.180 that look really bad,

00:17:43.460 it might just be

00:17:44.680 kind of a surface-level thing

00:17:46.340 that with a little bit

00:17:47.080 of attention and care

00:17:48.200 you can fix it.

00:17:49.860 But some of it may be,

00:17:51.000 some of it may

00:17:51.620 sort of be structural.

00:17:52.800 If they're delegated

00:17:53.740 this authority

00:17:54.280 to warrantlessly

00:17:55.040 wiretap on people,

00:17:56.680 we've already seen

00:17:57.360 they spy on their girlfriends.

00:17:59.360 You know,

00:17:59.500 they spy on,

00:18:00.240 you know,

00:18:01.180 donors to political campaigns

00:18:02.420 and things like that.

00:18:04.160 So I want to talk to you

00:18:05.580 a little bit

00:18:05.960 about the Catch-22

00:18:06.960 of expertise

00:18:08.560 because

00:18:09.240 in some sense,

00:18:11.000 obviously,

00:18:11.640 you have to have

00:18:12.780 people

00:18:13.500 with a degree

00:18:14.860 of competence

00:18:15.660 be familiar

00:18:16.760 with how power works

00:18:18.140 and how the procedure works

00:18:19.900 if you're going

00:18:20.480 to go ahead

00:18:20.940 and operate

00:18:21.440 the machine

00:18:21.980 in Washington.

00:18:23.280 But at the same time,

00:18:24.500 I think the justifiable

00:18:26.180 concern of a lot

00:18:27.260 of people

00:18:27.620 who listen to plans

00:18:28.620 like this

00:18:29.260 is, well,

00:18:30.040 everyone who knows

00:18:30.720 how to do this

00:18:31.360 has already bought

00:18:32.020 into the system.

00:18:33.040 They already

00:18:33.560 are invested in this.

00:18:35.340 They don't want

00:18:35.740 real change,

00:18:36.760 especially, you know,

00:18:37.480 you hear organizations

00:18:38.400 like Heritage

00:18:39.060 get thrown in there.

00:18:40.440 I know that Heritage

00:18:41.820 has had a pretty,

00:18:43.520 I've heard a lot

00:18:44.100 of good things

00:18:44.580 about the base shift

00:18:45.940 there,

00:18:46.640 but a lot of people

00:18:48.000 get concerned

00:18:48.660 about these legacy

00:18:49.360 organizations

00:18:49.980 and their influence.

00:18:51.400 What would you say

00:18:51.860 to people

00:18:52.160 who are concerned

00:18:52.920 about this tension

00:18:54.960 because they understand

00:18:56.020 the need

00:18:56.740 to have expertise,

00:18:58.160 but when you're

00:18:58.680 putting experts

00:18:59.480 who are already

00:19:00.200 part of the system

00:19:00.980 into these positions

00:19:01.900 through organizations

00:19:02.880 who are already

00:19:03.420 familiar with

00:19:04.260 the operations,

00:19:05.300 there's a high

00:19:06.220 degree of concern

00:19:07.180 that they will

00:19:07.700 simply continue

00:19:08.900 the same priorities

00:19:10.280 of previous

00:19:11.820 kind of containment

00:19:13.140 conservative

00:19:13.880 administrations

00:19:15.060 with just a new

00:19:16.120 code of MAGA paint?

00:19:18.620 That is such

00:19:19.220 a big question

00:19:19.880 and it's kind of

00:19:20.540 like what I've

00:19:21.300 sort of considered

00:19:21.960 to be my

00:19:24.300 professional life's

00:19:25.540 work and interest

00:19:26.200 has been expertise

00:19:27.280 sort of as an issue.

00:19:31.760 What do we mean

00:19:32.760 by expertise?

00:19:34.160 Expertise...

00:19:35.720 What's better

00:19:36.760 than a well-marbled

00:19:37.660 ribeye sizzling

00:19:38.560 on the barbecue?

00:19:39.760 A well-marbled

00:19:40.640 ribeye sizzling

00:19:41.540 on the barbecue

00:19:42.160 that was carefully

00:19:43.060 selected by an

00:19:44.000 Instacart shopper

00:19:44.920 and delivered

00:19:45.380 to your door.

00:19:46.480 A well-marbled

00:19:47.360 ribeye you ordered

00:19:48.320 without even

00:19:49.140 leaving the kiddie pool.

00:19:50.960 Whatever groceries

00:19:51.820 your summer calls for,

00:19:53.300 Instacart has you covered.

00:19:55.100 Download the

00:19:55.640 Instacart app

00:19:56.340 and enjoy

00:19:56.880 zero-dollar delivery

00:19:58.020 fees on your

00:19:58.660 first three orders.

00:19:59.980 Service fees,

00:20:00.640 exclusions,

00:20:01.220 and terms apply.

00:20:02.720 Instacart.

00:20:03.600 Groceries that

00:20:04.400 over-deliver.

00:20:05.160 And neutrality

00:20:07.200 are two words

00:20:08.220 that are kind of

00:20:08.720 used in tandem

00:20:09.440 in the law,

00:20:10.620 in the administrative

00:20:11.320 law,

00:20:12.040 in the case law,

00:20:14.080 justifying why

00:20:15.240 agencies get

00:20:16.020 deference,

00:20:16.760 justifying different

00:20:18.420 policies and things

00:20:19.380 like that.

00:20:20.320 And expertise

00:20:22.620 in this case,

00:20:24.220 when you're talking

00:20:24.800 about knowledge

00:20:25.740 of rules

00:20:27.340 and procedures,

00:20:29.320 that is,

00:20:30.020 you can call

00:20:32.420 it expertise.

00:20:34.060 I would call it,

00:20:35.500 and like,

00:20:35.760 what is the function

00:20:36.320 of a lawyer?

00:20:36.940 It's to be small c

00:20:37.800 conservative.

00:20:38.460 It's to understand

00:20:39.120 a culture, right?

00:20:40.320 And so all of these

00:20:40.980 fights over targeting

00:20:41.980 on bar licenses

00:20:43.940 is really about

00:20:44.840 using,

00:20:46.040 it's trying to

00:20:46.860 sort of artificially

00:20:47.740 or top-down

00:20:48.280 change the legal culture.

00:20:50.540 Expertise in this

00:20:51.340 context with

00:20:51.920 administrative rules

00:20:52.620 is understanding

00:20:53.540 the culture

00:20:54.900 because having been

00:20:55.860 at the tops of

00:20:56.500 agencies and run

00:20:57.540 these things through,

00:20:58.480 there are always

00:20:59.920 formal exceptions

00:21:02.800 to process.

00:21:03.820 Like,

00:21:03.940 it has to go

00:21:04.400 through this process

00:21:05.320 and you have to

00:21:06.680 wait this many days,

00:21:08.240 you know,

00:21:08.560 unless there's an

00:21:09.140 emergency,

00:21:09.700 for example.

00:21:10.220 So you see Biden

00:21:10.880 declaring a lot

00:21:11.480 of emergencies.

00:21:12.200 So when we say

00:21:13.220 expertise,

00:21:13.760 we really mean

00:21:14.180 people who have

00:21:14.700 been around the

00:21:15.180 block,

00:21:15.580 who have some

00:21:16.100 understanding

00:21:16.620 of the Washington

00:21:17.400 culture.

00:21:18.600 That doesn't

00:21:19.420 necessarily mean

00:21:20.180 that they're

00:21:20.460 of the culture.

00:21:21.560 Definitely people

00:21:22.280 go native,

00:21:22.940 and I think,

00:21:24.000 you know,

00:21:24.320 in the senior

00:21:24.700 executive service,

00:21:25.720 it's this,

00:21:26.160 you know,

00:21:28.940 70s era

00:21:29.720 reform of the

00:21:30.420 civil service

00:21:30.880 that creates

00:21:31.280 a top layer

00:21:32.040 with fewer

00:21:32.880 protections and

00:21:33.600 tries to move

00:21:34.060 them around and

00:21:34.660 say it's kind

00:21:35.160 of movable

00:21:36.100 management.

00:21:36.520 I think that

00:21:36.960 maybe could be

00:21:37.580 applied as a

00:21:39.100 practical matter

00:21:39.740 to politicals as

00:21:40.520 well.

00:21:40.680 They go through

00:21:41.020 rotations.

00:21:41.660 You don't get

00:21:41.980 stuck in one

00:21:42.620 place because you

00:21:43.720 can go native

00:21:44.280 and get captured.

00:21:45.020 You know,

00:21:45.160 people that work

00:21:45.660 at Treasury

00:21:46.120 want to go work

00:21:47.420 at Goldman Sachs,

00:21:48.340 right?

00:21:48.900 So you maybe put

00:21:50.200 them at Treasury

00:21:50.760 after they've done

00:21:52.680 a tour working

00:21:54.220 on immigration stuff

00:21:55.320 or, you know,

00:21:57.080 you rotate people

00:21:57.940 and you rotate

00:21:58.480 them fast enough

00:21:59.380 that, you know,

00:22:00.320 slow enough that

00:22:00.880 you can get

00:22:01.200 stuff out of

00:22:01.720 them and they

00:22:02.000 can learn but

00:22:02.560 fast enough that

00:22:03.180 they don't go

00:22:03.600 native.

00:22:04.040 So I guess I'll

00:22:05.100 just say there's

00:22:05.560 no silver bullet

00:22:06.380 in life.

00:22:07.180 You know,

00:22:07.380 you see that with

00:22:07.860 relationships too

00:22:08.720 and there's no

00:22:09.080 silver bullet here.

00:22:10.040 You've identified a

00:22:11.040 totally real problem

00:22:12.360 but it just requires

00:22:14.860 sustained attention

00:22:15.920 by the base.

00:22:18.880 And, you know,

00:22:19.360 there are lots of

00:22:20.060 political checks for

00:22:20.800 people to get to say

00:22:21.920 that the dial is not

00:22:22.700 set correctly.

00:22:23.280 Oh, they are still

00:22:24.160 too swampy, for

00:22:25.460 example.

00:22:26.000 Or, you know,

00:22:27.020 as we saw right

00:22:27.620 out the gate with

00:22:28.240 the first Trump

00:22:28.880 term, they tried

00:22:30.520 to run around

00:22:32.360 the Office of

00:22:32.920 Legal Counsel

00:22:33.400 with some of

00:22:33.760 the immigration

00:22:34.360 executive orders.

00:22:35.260 There's a lot

00:22:35.900 more to that story

00:22:36.720 but part of the

00:22:37.380 story certainly

00:22:37.920 was they just

00:22:39.600 tried to do an

00:22:40.120 end run around

00:22:40.760 this and lean

00:22:41.660 less on expertise

00:22:42.620 and more on

00:22:43.440 being based and

00:22:45.160 then they kind of

00:22:45.740 got burnt for that.

00:22:46.620 And I'm not at

00:22:47.180 all justifying what

00:22:48.060 ended up happening.

00:22:48.880 I'm just saying

00:22:49.300 like, you know,

00:22:50.520 the dial sometimes

00:22:51.260 gets set a little

00:22:52.040 bit inappropriately

00:22:52.940 and it just

00:22:54.000 takes time.

00:22:55.860 For guys who

00:22:56.440 maybe are outside

00:22:57.380 the system but

00:22:58.180 they think to

00:22:58.640 themselves, hey,

00:22:59.360 I'm young,

00:22:59.860 energetic, I'm

00:23:00.640 passionate about

00:23:01.260 this, I'm based,

00:23:03.020 I have some level

00:23:03.800 of expertise,

00:23:04.940 where would you

00:23:05.620 suggest that they

00:23:06.340 try to plug in

00:23:07.200 so they can

00:23:07.900 possibly be

00:23:09.020 available, you

00:23:10.000 know, offer

00:23:10.340 their skills if

00:23:11.220 there's an

00:23:11.640 opportunity?

00:23:12.720 I still, I feel

00:23:14.060 like I'm sort of

00:23:14.580 shilling for

00:23:15.080 heritage, which

00:23:15.800 no, it's just, I

00:23:16.700 do think that the

00:23:17.300 best thing going

00:23:18.000 right now in

00:23:18.720 terms of that

00:23:19.140 kind of level of

00:23:20.400 that low of a

00:23:21.780 barrier of entry

00:23:22.500 with something

00:23:22.920 that you know

00:23:23.400 you're going to

00:23:23.700 get eyes on

00:23:24.240 you at some

00:23:24.820 point is probably

00:23:25.740 their Project

00:23:26.280 2025 database.

00:23:29.640 You know, you

00:23:29.820 can go online, you

00:23:30.600 can apply, you

00:23:31.340 can upload a

00:23:31.820 resume and stuff,

00:23:32.540 they've got really

00:23:33.380 good data security

00:23:34.240 and all of that

00:23:35.280 and, you know,

00:23:38.140 I've seen it, I've

00:23:39.140 been in it, I can,

00:23:40.520 you know, that's a

00:23:42.600 good tool and lots

00:23:44.160 of other orgs have

00:23:44.860 that too, like I

00:23:45.460 said, American

00:23:45.860 Moment, everyone has

00:23:46.620 their own

00:23:46.920 proprietary, so if

00:23:48.460 you're very

00:23:48.880 interested in one

00:23:49.620 particular area of

00:23:50.840 the law, you're

00:23:51.940 kind of asking the

00:23:52.420 question, like, how

00:23:52.940 do you get plugged

00:23:53.600 in?

00:23:55.600 At the end of the

00:23:56.400 day, it's the same

00:23:57.640 thing for everybody,

00:23:58.600 it's connections are

00:23:59.620 ultimately going to do

00:24:00.400 it, but you can

00:24:03.520 volunteer on the

00:24:04.160 campaign, I think

00:24:05.100 that's always a

00:24:05.660 great leg up, you

00:24:07.480 can volunteer with

00:24:08.240 your, you know,

00:24:08.840 local party, that's

00:24:10.480 always a great leg

00:24:11.180 up, you can work on

00:24:13.440 an issue and get

00:24:14.320 connected to people,

00:24:15.560 there are all sorts

00:24:16.160 of different orgs out

00:24:17.040 there that do

00:24:17.600 different policy work,

00:24:18.480 if you're, you

00:24:19.100 know, it can even

00:24:20.100 be one that's not

00:24:20.840 totally, you know, in

00:24:22.540 Trump orbit, like the

00:24:23.220 Manhattan Institute or

00:24:23.960 whatever, there are

00:24:24.560 lots of places where

00:24:25.520 you can just, like,

00:24:26.600 throw an article, you

00:24:28.520 know, at someone and

00:24:30.580 get a name for

00:24:31.280 yourself and start

00:24:31.800 working an issue and

00:24:32.840 be, and, and from the

00:24:35.140 right direction and get

00:24:36.720 a name for yourself.

00:24:37.680 Obviously, be careful

00:24:38.560 about that, you know,

00:24:39.640 paper trails and all

00:24:40.420 that, but, you know,

00:24:43.100 there are just so many,

00:24:43.820 so many ways to enter,

00:24:45.340 and obviously, I think if

00:24:47.620 Trump wins in

00:24:48.920 November, there are

00:24:50.700 going to be, there are

00:24:52.460 going to be numerous

00:24:53.020 entry points for, for

00:24:54.700 anybody, and you'll see

00:24:55.680 it, you'll see it

00:24:56.240 online, and a lot of

00:24:57.660 it's going to be fake,

00:24:58.540 you'll, you know, you'll

00:24:59.420 have some hits and

00:25:00.040 misses, it's just like

00:25:01.280 getting any job, you

00:25:03.820 know, reach out to

00:25:04.680 people that you know,

00:25:05.840 who might be connected,

00:25:07.360 strategize, but it's

00:25:08.500 just, it's hard to give

00:25:09.220 one answer to them.

00:25:11.200 All right, so let's

00:25:11.760 transition to the new

00:25:13.680 development that you've

00:25:15.440 helped to found.

00:25:16.160 Now, a lot of people

00:25:17.380 obviously are watching

00:25:18.860 what's happening with

00:25:19.560 Trump, what has

00:25:20.440 happened to many

00:25:21.440 people who have

00:25:21.960 been part of his

00:25:22.560 staff, part of his

00:25:23.420 administration.

00:25:24.360 It's very clear that

00:25:25.540 lawfare are more

00:25:29.080 common use, or far

00:25:31.820 more common weapon

00:25:32.580 that is going to be

00:25:34.140 leveled at people on

00:25:35.600 the right.

00:25:35.960 Anybody who joins the

00:25:36.960 Trump administration

00:25:37.960 could possibly come

00:25:40.120 under legal fire.

00:25:41.440 There's constantly this

00:25:42.660 effort to basically

00:25:43.800 terrify people out of

00:25:45.220 civil service, because

00:25:46.520 yeah, okay, maybe if

00:25:48.060 you're somebody who

00:25:48.940 spent a lot of years

00:25:50.300 lobbying, or you're

00:25:51.940 a distinguished general

00:25:52.880 or something, you can

00:25:54.040 stand up to this, you've

00:25:55.060 got the money, you've

00:25:55.780 got the reputation, you

00:25:56.980 can kind of stand in

00:25:57.980 the breach, but even

00:25:58.620 for those people, it's

00:25:59.900 difficult.

00:26:00.440 It's really terrifying

00:26:01.340 for kind of average

00:26:02.460 people who are just

00:26:03.400 pulling a government

00:26:05.040 service type of salary

00:26:07.460 and don't really have

00:26:08.520 that kind of

00:26:09.540 independence, that level

00:26:10.940 of security.

00:26:11.860 So what is the plan

00:26:14.360 going forward for

00:26:15.220 that?

00:26:15.400 I know you have

00:26:15.980 started, helped to

00:26:17.320 start a new fund to

00:26:18.980 kind of fight back

00:26:20.340 against this constant

00:26:21.460 attempt of the left to

00:26:22.540 use lawfare to scare

00:26:23.500 people out of serving in

00:26:25.100 a Trump administration.

00:26:26.640 So I'll just say that

00:26:28.180 the org that I co-

00:26:31.700 founded, you know, did

00:26:33.420 the IRS application, all

00:26:34.500 that, it's a couple

00:26:34.940 years old now, actually.

00:26:36.000 So it's not new, it's

00:26:36.800 just newly sort of

00:26:38.300 getting out there.

00:26:39.120 Um, we've already

00:26:40.720 run, you know, seven

00:26:43.020 figures of, of donations

00:26:44.880 for people, you know,

00:26:46.200 vetted attorneys and

00:26:47.040 things like that.

00:26:48.280 Um, it's the org is

00:26:49.640 personnel policy ops dot

00:26:51.360 org.

00:26:52.080 So the, you know, takes

00:26:53.380 the PPO from the

00:26:55.480 White House, uh, sort of

00:26:57.360 acronym.

00:26:58.460 And, uh, basically the

00:27:00.220 org was set up to do

00:27:01.160 programming and policy for,

00:27:03.540 uh, future conservative

00:27:05.040 America first, uh, 0.96

00:27:07.700 prospective civil

00:27:08.580 servants, right.

00:27:09.660 And really we've looked

00:27:11.540 at it from an economic

00:27:12.400 perspective and what the

00:27:13.480 left does is totally

00:27:14.300 rational.

00:27:14.980 I mean, they raise the

00:27:15.960 costs on us even getting

00:27:18.040 to the table, right.

00:27:19.620 And they lower the costs

00:27:21.080 for their people.

00:27:21.760 So I remember I was so

00:27:23.000 frustrated where there

00:27:24.260 was a, you know, graduate

00:27:25.720 of my law school and then

00:27:27.340 another woman who firebombed 1.00

00:27:30.220 a, um, you know, a cop

00:27:32.540 car during the summer of

00:27:33.640 love, uh, uh, and then

00:27:36.060 got eventually like only

00:27:37.220 after a long public

00:27:39.600 outcry, they got

00:27:40.280 prosecuted, but then

00:27:41.240 they got a sweetheart

00:27:41.800 deal and they're all out

00:27:42.740 and blah, blah, blah,

00:27:43.200 blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:27:44.020 And they were on

00:27:45.120 Skadden fellowships and

00:27:46.200 they were getting free

00:27:46.860 legal counsel.

00:27:48.060 You know what I mean?

00:27:48.580 Like the left protects

00:27:49.760 their own, even when

00:27:50.560 they're literally throwing

00:27:51.440 Molotov cocktails to

00:27:53.280 police cars that could

00:27:54.620 light someone on fire and

00:27:56.440 they could die. 0.99

00:27:57.220 Okay.

00:27:57.620 This is a thousand times

00:27:59.700 more violent than anything

00:28:00.560 that happened to chase

00:28:01.680 sex.

00:28:01.920 Okay.

00:28:02.660 Um, and they're

00:28:04.140 defending these people

00:28:04.940 like it's some kind of

00:28:05.640 racial thing or there's

00:28:06.620 some kind of justification

00:28:07.500 for what they were

00:28:08.300 doing.

00:28:08.560 No, no, no, no, no.

00:28:09.320 And the left protects

00:28:10.060 them.

00:28:10.280 We don't protect our own.

00:28:11.600 We don't have an ACLU.

00:28:13.400 Um, you know, Trump and

00:28:14.840 a lot of these people,

00:28:15.600 they have single donors

00:28:16.820 that will help them.

00:28:18.820 Um, and, uh, but

00:28:20.820 there's no pro there was

00:28:21.780 no programmatic class

00:28:23.920 wide, um, legal defense

00:28:26.340 fund.

00:28:27.980 So that's why we set this

00:28:29.140 up.

00:28:29.380 And so it's really just

00:28:30.360 for any sort of

00:28:31.180 conservative America

00:28:31.940 first Patriot who's sort

00:28:33.520 of targeted for acts

00:28:35.660 that they preserve, you

00:28:36.600 know, uh, do in the

00:28:38.120 service of their, of

00:28:39.740 their public, uh, office.

00:28:42.220 Um, and that we believe

00:28:43.920 are unjustifiably,

00:28:45.160 unjustifiably targeted.

00:28:46.380 So it's people that we've

00:28:47.140 supported like Peter

00:28:47.780 Navarro or, or, uh, or

00:28:50.200 Mark Meadows or, uh, uh,

00:28:52.820 John Eastman, you know,

00:28:53.860 there's a whole litany.

00:28:54.580 You can find them on the

00:28:55.140 website and in public.

00:28:56.340 Um, but it's, it's

00:28:57.300 really people like that

00:28:58.200 and it's a C3, so it

00:28:59.240 is tax deductible.

00:29:01.160 Um, and that was a

00:29:02.120 part of reason why we

00:29:02.920 didn't, you know, we

00:29:03.780 weren't really public is

00:29:04.800 because you want to,

00:29:06.280 it's a, it's a, you

00:29:07.520 know, you can't set up

00:29:08.300 a C3, which is the C3

00:29:10.520 to protect, you know,

00:29:12.200 or on McIntyre and

00:29:14.140 then expect to get tax

00:29:15.180 exempt status because

00:29:16.060 no, that's a class of

00:29:17.020 one.

00:29:17.320 That's one person.

00:29:18.060 That's not a public

00:29:18.680 interest.

00:29:19.020 So we wanted it to be

00:29:19.820 public interest, but you

00:29:21.120 kind of got to get

00:29:21.660 started before you can

00:29:22.780 like demonstrate really

00:29:24.020 that, uh, that it's

00:29:25.460 actually a class and not

00:29:26.800 just one or two

00:29:27.440 people.

00:29:27.780 So we do have a

00:29:28.400 class now.

00:29:29.180 We've got almost no

00:29:30.080 overhead.

00:29:30.500 I'm not taking a salary.

00:29:31.440 You know, the, our

00:29:32.060 president's not taking a

00:29:32.880 salary.

00:29:34.000 Um, you know, the money

00:29:35.200 goes to people.

00:29:36.540 We've done a lot of, a

00:29:37.400 lot of money, a lot of

00:29:38.640 money, and we hope to

00:29:40.360 continue to grow.

00:29:41.120 So we hope that it's not

00:29:42.000 just a Trump thing.

00:29:42.720 It's not just an

00:29:43.300 election 2020 thing, but

00:29:45.100 that it's an institutional

00:29:46.020 thing that for years to

00:29:47.340 come can provide at least

00:29:49.200 some source of comfort to

00:29:50.520 these people.

00:29:51.580 Um, you know, whether

00:29:52.640 they're, you know, my

00:29:53.900 grandma, you know,

00:29:54.880 volunteering at the Cook

00:29:55.820 County Republican, you

00:29:57.140 know, God bless her for 0.97

00:29:59.020 however many years, you

00:30:00.280 know, these poll workers

00:30:01.100 are being targeted in some

00:30:02.160 cases, whether it's in

00:30:03.200 Michigan or, or Georgia.

00:30:05.920 So really it's just a hope

00:30:07.240 to kind of ease that fear,

00:30:10.380 put up the flag because

00:30:11.760 putting up the flag is so

00:30:12.680 important.

00:30:13.100 It's not perfect.

00:30:14.040 You know, it's not going to

00:30:14.760 be able to support

00:30:15.240 everybody.

00:30:15.680 I mean, what we could do

00:30:17.100 with, you know, another

00:30:18.020 hundred million is, you

00:30:19.400 know, how much do you need

00:30:20.180 to like fully make

00:30:20.960 everybody whole, right?

00:30:21.880 So it's not, and you

00:30:23.240 know, and it's, and it's

00:30:23.960 slower because a lot of

00:30:25.720 people, you get a subpoena

00:30:26.920 or something.

00:30:27.360 I've represented people

00:30:28.420 who've gotten J6 subpoenas

00:30:29.620 or whatever, Georgia

00:30:30.920 subpoenas, et cetera.

00:30:32.240 And, um, you know, it's

00:30:33.980 scary.

00:30:34.440 You got to pay out money.

00:30:35.320 You don't want to go

00:30:35.820 public.

00:30:36.340 You're not even thinking

00:30:37.160 about the cost yet.

00:30:38.820 You're like, I just got to

00:30:39.460 protect myself.

00:30:40.860 Um, so yeah, it's not,

00:30:42.700 it's nothing, nothing is

00:30:43.640 perfect, but I guess it's

00:30:44.820 just, it's, it's largely

00:30:46.040 a signaling, it's not

00:30:46.960 largely a signaling advice,

00:30:47.980 but part of it is that it

00:30:48.820 signals to people, you

00:30:50.220 know, we've got your back,

00:30:51.140 we've got your back.

00:30:51.820 And I think we need to

00:30:52.640 tell our people that.

00:30:54.160 And I think your audience

00:30:55.860 should also understand it's

00:30:57.200 not just, you know,

00:30:58.700 obviously the org and these

00:30:59.840 people could use support,

00:31:01.180 but in the future, when

00:31:03.560 Trump is reelected and he

00:31:05.520 starts putting people in

00:31:06.860 and the people get blown up

00:31:08.480 in Newsweek or MSNBC or

00:31:11.720 CNN, your first instinct

00:31:14.480 should not be to take

00:31:16.380 what they say is true or

00:31:17.600 if they're indicted or if

00:31:18.580 they're subpoenaed, your

00:31:19.920 first instinct should not

00:31:21.000 be to take what they say

00:31:22.020 is true and start

00:31:23.020 shunning that person or

00:31:25.480 taking what they say less

00:31:26.700 seriously.

00:31:27.540 Your first instinct should

00:31:28.420 be, you know, who

00:31:30.020 benefits, why are they

00:31:30.980 being targeted?

00:31:31.840 Like who's, who's got an 0.93

00:31:33.260 interest in targeting this

00:31:34.380 person?

00:31:35.460 Um, start from that

00:31:37.480 position.

00:31:37.840 I think we need a real

00:31:38.760 attitude shift among the

00:31:39.800 base just to be stronger.

00:31:40.720 And the more we give

00:31:41.940 support to these people,

00:31:43.080 the more personnel there

00:31:44.560 are available to Trump or

00:31:46.080 any future Republican

00:31:46.900 administration or

00:31:47.640 conservative administration.

00:31:49.180 Um, yeah, the left is

00:31:50.580 definitely trying to drain

00:31:51.680 the field, the farm team.

00:31:53.620 They're trying to drain the

00:31:54.540 farm team on the right.

00:31:55.840 That's the lawyer stuff.

00:31:57.360 That's the targeting of

00:31:58.340 election workers.

00:31:59.060 They don't even want, I

00:32:00.220 mean, why did Youngkin win

00:32:01.140 in Virginia?

00:32:02.220 Not because he had the

00:32:03.320 smartest people, but because

00:32:04.300 he had a thousand grandmas

00:32:05.820 that volunteered to like,

00:32:07.240 they didn't even know what to

00:32:08.160 do, but their mere presence

00:32:09.360 would just would deter

00:32:10.300 conduct.

00:32:11.380 Um, and you know, they

00:32:12.540 don't want those eyes on

00:32:13.780 and they want to deter and

00:32:15.100 they want to scare grandma

00:32:15.900 and make her stay home.

00:32:17.020 And so that's why we started

00:32:18.220 the org to let grandma know

00:32:19.960 someone's there.

00:32:21.140 Yeah, I think it is really

00:32:22.760 critical for people to have

00:32:23.780 that mentality shift that

00:32:24.940 you're talking about where,

00:32:26.560 and I think we're seeing it

00:32:27.460 more and more, which is a

00:32:28.480 good sign that cancellations,

00:32:30.200 you know, bounce off.

00:32:31.460 They don't work.

00:32:32.080 People don't assume the

00:32:33.260 worst.

00:32:33.560 They don't assume the

00:32:34.180 accusations.

00:32:35.140 They know that someone is out

00:32:36.640 to get these people that

00:32:37.620 smear tactics are there for

00:32:38.820 a reason.

00:32:39.620 You know, every once in a

00:32:40.260 while, obviously people do

00:32:41.440 make mistakes.

00:32:42.240 There is wrongdoing, but

00:32:43.740 ultimately having that

00:32:44.880 attitude of first, we

00:32:46.060 defend our friend.

00:32:47.300 First, we rally the

00:32:47.920 troops.

00:32:48.520 First, we make sure that

00:32:49.700 this person's okay.

00:32:50.820 And then if discipline needs

00:32:52.460 to come because something

00:32:53.260 wrong happened, well, that

00:32:54.140 happens, you know,

00:32:55.120 separately.

00:32:55.480 But the first reaction is

00:32:56.900 not to throw somebody out

00:32:57.700 of the bus, try to appease

00:32:58.740 the media, try to appease

00:33:00.060 the mob, but instead to

00:33:01.300 realize that most of these

00:33:02.600 attacks are coming simply

00:33:03.960 because the person is

00:33:05.720 standing next to the wrong

00:33:06.780 guy and that really is

00:33:08.300 enough for them to go

00:33:09.620 ahead and attack them.

00:33:10.860 What do you think about 0.92

00:33:11.680 this general mentality

00:33:13.000 shift, though?

00:33:14.040 Do you think that this

00:33:15.420 constant attack, personal

00:33:17.540 assault, lawfare, do you

00:33:19.820 think that this relentless

00:33:21.500 attack by the left on

00:33:22.840 people who would join the

00:33:23.700 Trump administration, who

00:33:24.680 would dare to be a part

00:33:25.900 of it, do you think that's

00:33:26.580 just a feature of public

00:33:28.200 service now?

00:33:29.220 Do you think that there's

00:33:29.900 anything that's going to

00:33:30.580 reign this in?

00:33:31.620 And if it's here to stay,

00:33:33.740 there's the right need to

00:33:34.380 begin engaging in this

00:33:35.460 because obviously if

00:33:36.620 you're not doing a tit

00:33:37.340 for tat, if you're

00:33:38.160 sitting there and it's

00:33:39.300 always, hey, one side,

00:33:41.260 you know, always pays the

00:33:42.360 price when they're in

00:33:43.600 power and then the other

00:33:44.320 side gets away with

00:33:45.060 murder when they're in

00:33:46.280 power, then you realize

00:33:47.860 that they're never going

00:33:48.900 to stop doing this,

00:33:49.680 right?

00:33:50.260 Yeah.

00:33:50.680 So I've had hundreds of

00:33:52.900 interns now and I always

00:33:54.080 recommend Robert Axelrod's

00:33:55.680 Evolution of Cooperation,

00:33:57.380 which is like a really

00:33:58.040 great intro to game

00:33:58.940 theory.

00:33:59.940 And it basically and quite

00:34:01.400 frankly, you know, any

00:34:02.700 it's helpful for coding

00:34:04.640 too.

00:34:04.960 It's just a great book.

00:34:06.200 Anybody can understand

00:34:06.960 it.

00:34:07.200 And I would say the

00:34:07.740 fundamental point is that

00:34:09.600 the foundation of all

00:34:10.880 cooperation as an economic

00:34:13.360 matter is tit for tat.

00:34:15.400 So you have to have repeat

00:34:17.160 interactions with the

00:34:17.940 person because if you never

00:34:18.920 see him again, you can

00:34:19.700 steal from him.

00:34:20.860 You can steal from him.

00:34:22.220 And the police is there

00:34:23.720 to the police are there to

00:34:26.180 basically be that repeat

00:34:27.600 interaction on behalf of the

00:34:29.140 public.

00:34:29.400 Like you may not interact

00:34:30.760 with the guy that you just

00:34:31.480 stole from ever again, but you

00:34:32.500 but the police are still

00:34:33.280 there.

00:34:33.500 They might catch you.

00:34:34.680 So you've got to fight

00:34:36.540 back.

00:34:37.000 If you let someone get away

00:34:37.840 with something, they will

00:34:38.900 continue to do it.

00:34:39.660 So the dog does have to be

00:34:40.740 trained.

00:34:41.660 I think that is applicable

00:34:42.800 to politics.

00:34:43.640 I did, you know, the

00:34:44.460 Courage Under Fire Legal

00:34:45.600 Defense Fund as a part of

00:34:47.280 the PPO org is the, you

00:34:49.620 know, the major project for

00:34:51.100 sure, certainly by funds.

00:34:52.480 It's not the only project.

00:34:53.740 We do have other projects,

00:34:55.280 you know, vetting career

00:34:56.780 civil servants that are

00:34:57.700 positive and some that are

00:34:58.680 negative, too.

00:34:59.340 So we definitely are aware

00:35:01.180 and in that space.

00:35:02.500 I definitely talk all the

00:35:04.060 time with people who do

00:35:05.220 these sorts of campaigns

00:35:06.800 against people.

00:35:07.760 I mean, you see, you do see

00:35:09.420 real bad acts like that,

00:35:11.220 you know, that guy who was

00:35:14.040 stealing all the luggage,

00:35:15.140 right, in the Biden.

00:35:16.360 I mean, like he deserved to

00:35:17.340 be, he deserved to be

00:35:18.120 targeted.

00:35:18.580 And the fact that he just 0.99

00:35:19.220 looked so ridiculous made it 0.98

00:35:22.020 a great story, too. 0.90

00:35:22.960 So, yeah, I do think we should

00:35:26.000 be continuing to do that.

00:35:27.060 But I will say, on the other

00:35:28.000 hand, there is, it should not

00:35:31.560 always be open season.

00:35:32.760 Like, I do aspire to a culture

00:35:34.780 of understanding what matters.

00:35:37.300 I'm pretty connected to the

00:35:38.480 euro right.

00:35:39.080 For example, I talk with a lot

00:35:40.120 of people in French and other

00:35:41.400 politics, and this Trump stuff

00:35:43.860 in New York has them, like,

00:35:45.520 pulling their hair out.

00:35:46.920 They're like, okay, so, and

00:35:49.580 they're assuming the worst.

00:35:51.060 Like, assume it's all true.

00:35:52.340 They're like, they're like,

00:35:53.700 okay, so why is this in the

00:35:55.640 media?

00:35:56.200 You know, it's like an affair,

00:35:57.780 allegedly, of a politician. 1.00

00:35:59.100 Like, this is stupid. 1.00

00:36:00.520 So I do think there is some, we 1.00

00:36:03.420 do need to kind of focus on the

00:36:04.720 core function of public service.

00:36:07.480 We don't really have a theory of

00:36:09.440 what it means to be public

00:36:10.800 spirited, particularly on the

00:36:11.800 right, because we're very money

00:36:12.820 focused.

00:36:13.360 The left, they'll have a guy

00:36:15.340 living on a mattress, eating

00:36:17.580 beans, and he'll still want to

00:36:19.600 throw his life away.

00:36:21.820 For the cause.

00:36:22.840 We don't really have that on

00:36:23.700 the right.

00:36:24.060 So we do need a mentality shift

00:36:25.200 about public service, what the

00:36:26.340 country means, and that has to

00:36:29.280 happen before you can even talk

00:36:30.380 about what the public square

00:36:31.780 should look like.

00:36:33.520 What do you think the trickle

00:36:35.260 down effects will be of, like

00:36:38.280 you said, the trial in New York

00:36:40.140 and the targeting of Trump?

00:36:41.540 Obviously, this is putting us in

00:36:43.920 pretty dangerous waters.

00:36:45.600 We understand that you probably

00:36:47.600 can't continually run a country

00:36:49.640 that puts its political

00:36:51.180 opponents, it's the major

00:36:52.560 opponent of the sitting

00:36:53.540 president, on trial on what are

00:36:55.780 pretty obviously fallacious

00:36:56.920 charges.

00:36:58.280 Do you think that this trial is

00:37:00.320 going to hurt Trump ultimately?

00:37:02.780 Do you think that this is going

00:37:04.600 to damage the way that elections

00:37:06.360 work going forward?

00:37:07.920 Or do you think that this is

00:37:09.640 ultimately going to help Trump?

00:37:10.840 It's going to propel him.

00:37:11.780 People are going to recognize the

00:37:13.420 unfairness of this, and he's going

00:37:15.060 to be able to use this to kind of

00:37:16.780 bolster his numbers going into

00:37:18.140 November.

00:37:19.020 I'm not a professional

00:37:20.240 pollster type.

00:37:22.560 I have instincts about that.

00:37:24.060 I've certainly looked at the polls,

00:37:25.260 and it doesn't look like it's

00:37:26.000 hurting Trump at all.

00:37:27.180 I think people are tired of it.

00:37:28.780 And I think when the campaign

00:37:29.980 actually opens up and you have

00:37:31.480 debates or you have policies

00:37:32.740 coming out or you have real plans

00:37:34.280 and serious stuff, I think people

00:37:37.020 will largely forget about it.

00:37:39.000 I think it's clear that Merchan wants

00:37:40.320 a conviction, and I think he wants

00:37:42.220 it quick, I think that's

00:37:44.840 irresponsible.

00:37:45.860 But the public generally, okay,

00:37:48.040 so we've got the MAGA base, right?

00:37:51.000 They're going to be with Trump

00:37:51.940 either way, and any time he's in

00:37:54.240 court just makes him look cooler.

00:37:55.840 And then there's the absolutely 0.79

00:37:56.900 crazy left people. 0.97

00:37:59.320 They're going to hate him no matter 0.98

00:38:00.320 what.

00:38:00.620 It's those people in the middle,

00:38:01.660 and I think a large chunk of

00:38:03.100 America doesn't, you'd be 0.97

00:38:04.820 surprised.

00:38:05.400 People, like, they're not

00:38:06.260 watching, yeah, CNN's on at a

00:38:09.300 lot of restaurants or the airport

00:38:10.800 or blah, blah, blah, but people

00:38:12.280 aren't watching this, and to some

00:38:14.900 degree, they're aware of it but

00:38:16.020 don't care.

00:38:16.960 It's not a part of their life.

00:38:18.300 And it's those people you want to

00:38:19.460 ask.

00:38:20.200 And I think, so, like, this stuff

00:38:23.780 about Cohen stealing money, I

00:38:25.520 think that's a big possibility for

00:38:27.420 the narrative shift.

00:38:28.180 It's, like, almost not relevant.

00:38:30.740 I mean, it goes to his credibility,

00:38:32.120 so it is relevant, but I do think

00:38:33.540 it's a great story for the public

00:38:35.920 consumption to be like, you know, 0.92

00:38:38.360 who the hell is this guy?

00:38:39.360 Why are we even here? 1.00

00:38:40.340 This is all ridiculous.

00:38:42.920 So, yeah, I can't speak to, my 0.90

00:38:47.480 interest really is not how it

00:38:49.440 affects the electorate.

00:38:50.580 It's more how it affects Trump

00:38:52.000 because I want him to be, you

00:38:56.680 know, Trump too, out for

00:38:58.780 vengeance, you know.

00:39:00.360 I want him to understand this

00:39:02.880 person screwed me, that person 0.99

00:39:04.640 screwed me. 0.98

00:39:05.300 I, you know, when I sit down and

00:39:08.420 say, get me the best lawyer on

00:39:09.660 X, it doesn't work.

00:39:11.700 Like, why did I hire Michael

00:39:13.180 Cohen?

00:39:13.600 What was the, what was the, what

00:39:15.800 was the error that I made there

00:39:16.960 in correcting it?

00:39:17.620 Like, my real hope is that a lot

00:39:19.420 of lessons for our tragic hero

00:39:21.640 are learned.

00:39:24.720 That's kind of my takeaway from

00:39:26.020 all of this.

00:39:26.860 Yeah, you really hope he's

00:39:27.700 drafting the Sulla-style

00:39:29.080 prescription list somewhere.

00:39:30.340 No, no, no.

00:39:36.940 I do, I kind of want the shoe

00:39:38.780 on the other foot.

00:39:39.360 I want that moment where we

00:39:41.880 force the left to step forward

00:39:43.540 and say, I am Spartacus.

00:39:45.340 I want them all to be

00:39:46.280 Spartacus.

00:39:48.980 So, when you look at public

00:39:51.720 service, like I said, a lot of

00:39:53.240 people, very skeptical, I think,

00:39:55.840 understandably, of kind of the

00:39:57.960 culture, who steps into these

00:39:59.780 positions, how they end up

00:40:01.240 shaping people.

00:40:02.460 Very skeptical that things can

00:40:04.600 change.

00:40:05.360 But I wonder, do you think that

00:40:07.580 ultimately there is a way for

00:40:09.500 people to go to Washington,

00:40:12.300 continue to hold the beliefs

00:40:14.900 and the priorities of the rest

00:40:18.400 of America?

00:40:19.000 Or do you think that there does

00:40:20.640 eventually have to be a

00:40:22.140 devolution or a shift where we

00:40:24.900 get to a place where more

00:40:26.140 agencies are outside of

00:40:28.280 Washington, more representatives

00:40:30.340 are spending time outside of

00:40:31.880 Washington, where there's a way

00:40:33.620 to kind of decentralize, at

00:40:36.420 least, or reduce the amount of

00:40:38.340 time people are spending in this

00:40:40.020 milieu?

00:40:40.600 Or do you think that people

00:40:41.360 really can continue to hold

00:40:42.820 those priorities if you have the

00:40:44.800 right culture, attitudes, the

00:40:46.480 right way that you're

00:40:48.160 structuring, I guess, the

00:40:50.360 culture inside those

00:40:51.660 institutions?

00:40:52.440 As it is now, I don't see a

00:40:56.100 structural solution because it's

00:40:59.060 wild, you know, seeing scandals in

00:41:02.820 other countries where someone

00:41:04.140 leaves the civil service and takes

00:41:05.420 a lobbying job and they go nuts.

00:41:08.080 In this country, money rules.

00:41:10.060 We have, and part of that is we

00:41:13.220 can, on the right, we're like,

00:41:14.360 well, that's constitutional.

00:41:15.340 You have a right to free contract

00:41:16.560 and da-da-da-da.

00:41:17.080 We really need, I think, stronger

00:41:20.240 rules, ethics rules and other

00:41:22.260 rules, not because I think we

00:41:24.300 should be delegating it to

00:41:25.400 pointy-headed bureaucrats, but

00:41:26.760 because I really want, like, if

00:41:28.060 you take a job, like, I'm happy

00:41:30.840 that many of the best candidates

00:41:33.500 for president are very wealthy.

00:41:35.400 You know, I don't want them

00:41:36.680 beholden to what happens during

00:41:39.600 their job.

00:41:40.160 And I'm unhappy when I see people

00:41:41.780 like Hunter Biden making money off

00:41:43.920 of what their father does in

00:41:45.020 public service.

00:41:45.600 We need a lot of rules changes,

00:41:47.660 I think, to fix that.

00:41:49.260 So I don't think that we can

00:41:50.860 solve it.

00:41:52.280 There are structural incentives,

00:41:53.480 no matter how good people are

00:41:55.000 right now, that swampify people.

00:41:58.460 Moving agencies out to the

00:42:00.240 boonies, you know, we moved BLM, 0.93

00:42:02.420 the Bureau of Land Management, out

00:42:03.460 to Grand Junction, Colorado.

00:42:05.140 Made a lot of sense because that's

00:42:07.000 where most of the federal lands are

00:42:08.240 out west.

00:42:09.540 When you move a big agency, you are

00:42:12.300 teleporting a bunch of blue voters

00:42:14.340 into an area.

00:42:15.040 So I think you should always be

00:42:16.740 very careful with that.

00:42:18.860 The real question you're asking is

00:42:20.200 there's a disconnect between the

00:42:22.020 government and the governed.

00:42:23.180 Like, there's an elite that's

00:42:24.740 culturally very different.

00:42:26.640 I don't know.

00:42:27.260 There's no one silver bullet to fix

00:42:29.320 that.

00:42:29.600 It takes sustained attention,

00:42:30.880 multiple elections,

00:42:32.480 and people mad.

00:42:34.360 And I think the best thing that I see

00:42:37.360 is, you know, the generational shift

00:42:39.960 among Zoomers to the right, among 0.99

00:42:43.840 young Blacks to the right, things like 0.86

00:42:46.320 that.

00:42:47.160 It's not all perfect, but that to me is

00:42:50.520 much more sustainable.

00:42:51.320 And yeah, obviously, for those of us

00:42:55.460 thinking on the right, that are in

00:42:56.760 positions of authority, that have

00:42:58.480 these views, many of whom you can make

00:43:01.660 your bank during the day and then work

00:43:04.080 shadowy on, you know, public-spirited

00:43:06.720 right-wing stuff at night, you know,

00:43:09.060 those people do need to be doing that.

00:43:11.080 We need to be coordinating and having,

00:43:12.400 you know, an all-front sort of domestic

00:43:15.780 housecleaning.

00:43:18.540 I don't have an answer for that.

00:43:20.040 Like, it's a really tough issue that's

00:43:21.460 going to take years and years and lots

00:43:23.060 and lots of locuses of attention.

00:43:25.440 State legislators, legislatures,

00:43:27.560 everything down to your HOA.

00:43:29.620 Like, dealing with my family with their

00:43:31.220 HOAs, my sister and my mother, it's

00:43:35.660 lib stuff, even in deep red areas.

00:43:37.740 So, like, this stuff permeates.

00:43:39.360 Or school boards, local school boards.

00:43:41.320 Reagan launched so many

00:43:44.540 people to enter local politics,

00:43:48.100 even at dog-catcher level.

00:43:49.980 I don't think anybody elects dog-catchers

00:43:51.460 anymore, but, like...

00:43:53.140 Mosquito control board down here in

00:43:55.600 Florida.

00:43:56.200 Trump hasn't done that yet, but I think

00:43:57.920 that's, like, the next institutional

00:43:59.840 step is, like, people need to see it as

00:44:02.080 a part of their fun, as a part of their

00:44:05.040 non-economic day to volunteer and go

00:44:11.420 into public service at the local level

00:44:12.940 and apply the sort of Trumpist, populist

00:44:15.720 principles, America first, conservative

00:44:17.520 principles there.

00:44:19.380 And I think that will help a lot.

00:44:22.540 No, I agree.

00:44:23.500 Yeah, I think of Louis the Sun King and

00:44:26.360 how he uprooted the entire French 1.00

00:44:29.340 nobility and moved them to Versailles just

00:44:31.380 so he could make sure to maintain control

00:44:33.700 because if he could separate these people

00:44:35.280 from their lands and, you know, the areas

00:44:38.220 that they traditionally ruled, then he could

00:44:40.380 become an absolutist and now that's just

00:44:42.760 what we do every day and treat it as if

00:44:44.480 it's normal.

00:44:45.140 We just dump everybody in the capital

00:44:46.720 city and assume that they're going to

00:44:48.240 continue to represent the areas they were

00:44:49.920 supposed to be from.

00:44:50.880 Hopefully there will be some reassignments

00:44:52.660 to Alaska, which I would be really happy

00:44:54.900 with, but I know a lot of little swamp

00:44:57.120 creatures would be very unhappy with.

00:44:58.460 So hopefully it's a shock and awe campaign

00:45:00.180 bigger than any particular policy with

00:45:04.640 respect to the civil service or any issue

00:45:06.260 under Trump.

00:45:06.620 Like, I think the main thing is shock

00:45:09.620 and awe.

00:45:10.840 So, well, well, Andrew, I'll say this.

00:45:13.400 I'm glad that you and many others are

00:45:16.080 working on this.

00:45:17.160 Obviously, it's easy to throw pot shots 1.00

00:45:18.680 from the outside.

00:45:20.200 Nothing's perfect.

00:45:20.940 And this is a very long process that's

00:45:23.920 going to take a lot of work.

00:45:25.380 So I'm glad that you guys have the shoulder

00:45:27.680 to the wheel on this early, because obviously

00:45:29.640 this is going to be a huge effort.

00:45:32.520 If people want to donate to the fund or

00:45:34.800 if they otherwise want to get involved,

00:45:37.660 where can they donate?

00:45:38.720 And is there any other part of your work

00:45:40.660 that you want to point people to?

00:45:42.620 No, I'll just point to that.

00:45:44.120 I have my hand in a lot of pots, but I think

00:45:46.320 this is probably the most direct and worthwhile

00:45:48.560 cause that I work on.

00:45:49.960 So it's personnel policy, ops, O-P-S dot O-R-G. 1.00

00:45:54.520 And you can find us.

00:45:55.660 And there was that nice Washpo hit piece last week

00:45:59.700 about Trump alumni raising millions for,

00:46:02.680 I forget what the title is, but Trump alumni

00:46:04.760 raising millions for, basically for legal defense.

00:46:07.980 Yeah, yeah.

00:46:08.480 Some kind of fascist takeover.

00:46:09.880 That's every headline, but yeah.

00:46:11.440 No, it's literally letting people eat

00:46:13.280 while they're having FBI up their business

00:46:16.320 for nothing.

00:46:17.700 To be fair for the left, that is the definition of fascist.

00:46:19.600 That is fascism.

00:46:20.400 Yes, that is fascism.

00:46:22.980 Well, thank you so much, Andrew.

00:46:24.680 I appreciate you coming on.

00:46:26.420 And of course, guys, if it's your first time

00:46:27.980 watching this channel, please make sure

00:46:29.940 that you go ahead and subscribe to the YouTube channel.

00:46:33.020 Turn on the notifications so that you can catch

00:46:35.860 the streams when they are live.

00:46:37.500 If you want to get the broadcast as a podcast,

00:46:39.880 make sure that you go ahead and subscribe

00:46:41.060 to Orr McIntyre Show on your favorite podcast platform.

00:46:44.620 And if you're catching this as a prerecorded episode,

00:46:46.860 that's because I'm going to be on Dr. Drew.

00:46:49.140 Here at 3 p.m. talking about my new book,

00:46:51.820 The Total State.

00:46:52.680 It's over on Rumble.

00:46:53.800 So if you want to go ahead and catch me there live,

00:46:55.980 you can do that as well.

00:46:57.320 Thank you for watching, guys.

00:46:58.380 And as always, I'll talk to you next time.

00:47:00.920 Thank you.

00:47:01.180 Thank you.

00:47:01.620 Thank you.

00:47:01.700 Thank you.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - May 22, 2024

Replacing the Deep State ｜ Guest： Andrew Kloster ｜ 5⧸22⧸24

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