The Auron MacIntyre Show - Russiagate Bombshell and the Bombing of a Catholic Church ｜ Guest： The Prudentialist

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00:00:13.800 hey everybody how's it going thanks for joining me this afternoon i've got a great stream with

00:00:19.300 a great guest that i think you're really going to enjoy before we get started i just wanted to

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00:01:03.640 slash oran and use promo code oran to get $20 off all right well the bombs have been dropping or the

00:01:12.360 tanks have been firing i guess uh would be a slightly more accurate uh thing but we've just heard the on

00:01:19.000 friday that russi gate uh has theoretically been blown wide open not that we didn't know that

00:01:25.620 ultimately this was a hoax but uh dni chief uh tulsi gabbard has said that she has definitive proof

00:01:32.940 that the intel community cooked many of these different accusations in order to attack and derail

00:01:39.860 donald trump's incoming presidency also a stray tank round into a church in gaza has a lot of people

00:01:48.320 flying off the handle on both sides uh obviously a horrible tragedy as three people were killed

00:01:54.800 but the showdown that has exploded online especially across the christian right has been

00:02:01.760 a very unfortunate and interesting result so we're going to get into both of those topics

00:02:06.040 joining me today to do so is everyone's favorite frog the prudentialist thank you so much for coming

00:02:10.520 on man thanks for having me on again oran it's always a pleasure absolutely well let me just go

00:02:15.520 ahead and put up the press release that uh tulsi gabbard put out here recently so everyone can see the

00:02:23.960 breakdown uh before we get too deep into that though obviously russi gate big hoax we all knew this this is

00:02:32.000 this is not massive information but we're starting to get this evidence here that is rolling out that

00:02:38.280 you know you can document that there was no russian collusion the uh intelligence community said there was

00:02:44.440 no russian collusion and then magically there was russian collusion just in time to create a serious

00:02:49.920 problem for donald trump again i don't think either of us are going to be surprised at this but do you

00:02:55.520 think that the documentation itself is in any way a significant step towards perhaps receiving some kind of

00:03:01.720 justice for what happened here no i i really hate to i really hate to go off the bat and say it like

00:03:09.440 that but i i think that a lot of us had understood that at least for 2016 and really since then it has

00:03:15.820 been this long arcing shadow or this scarlet letter rather than a it's just been a scarlet red letter on

00:03:22.480 the trump administration that's been labeled by the press and the overall progressive intelligence

00:03:27.480 community uh trump is a bull in the china shop when it comes to all things related to our government

00:03:32.100 whether it's uh changing foreign policy or changing even the general perspective on immigration and

00:03:38.180 things like that he that's why i voted for him in 2016 was like this is better than hillary clinton and

00:03:42.780 whatever he does is going to be really interesting for four years better than the last like obama's

00:03:47.480 third term with hillary clinton so to see all this play out one it's i guess refreshing to have

00:03:53.400 another i guess right wing or like republican talking point validated on the long arc of history

00:03:59.860 that things were indeed cooped up and cooked up for this claim of collusion but at the same time it

00:04:05.580 really crosses into this awkward territory because you do have um i think what came out for for some of

00:04:11.280 the reports that came out in the trump administration and even out of uh obama appointees in the intelligence

00:04:16.380 community that what was spent on facebook was maybe a few hundred dollars at most for facebook

00:04:20.700 advertising i distinctly remember that being shown around shortly after the russia gate stuff began

00:04:26.000 but also at the same time you know you have this russia position that had been put out and this is two

00:04:32.080 years after a lot of american involvement inside what happened in maidan in 2014 so it gets very

00:04:39.280 complicated because on one hand you're right this was used against a sitting president or duly elected

00:04:44.200 president of the united states who would then become the sitting one and he would be labeled and we have

00:04:48.280 this whole media thing like i know that we kind of look back on the first trump administration sort

00:04:52.340 of with this hazy memory but you had the the mueller report you had um rachel maddow just like

00:04:58.640 liturgically chanting about how mueller's gonna blow everything open like she was like a millerite like

00:05:03.540 all of a sudden this case would be blown open the books would be revealed and all of trump like it

00:05:07.700 was basically like the second you know the second coming and the final judgment for trump uh played out

00:05:12.320 on msnbc so my concern though with all this has been a lot of these sort of like maga media sphere

00:05:18.500 where there's been posts about how like the shady bunch there was a truth social post about that from

00:05:23.400 the president um talking about all of the intelligence community and barack obama there

00:05:27.500 have been sort of like ai deep fakes from maga fans uh that are associated explicitly with the brand

00:05:32.060 about having like obama arrested and i share the same opinion that matt walsh had on twitter like he

00:05:38.580 originally said this might be unpopular only for it to be the most universally whatever the take

00:05:42.820 everyone had yeah everyone had was like unless you're going to arrest brennan and trump and comey

00:05:48.880 and the rest of them this doesn't mean much to me because at the end of the day it's sort of this

00:05:53.380 american political tradition that even the left and the right kind of agree on is that something will

00:05:57.520 get declassified or revealed several years later and they'll kind of just tease the public like well

00:06:02.520 what are you going to do about it and it's like well i i can't do anything about it but you're the

00:06:05.820 director of national intelligence you could work with the fbi or the doj or someone for some kind

00:06:10.960 of indictment because uh as people like amanda milius and others had done with that you know

00:06:15.820 plot against the president film like there was a lot of data whether circumstantial or otherwise that

00:06:20.540 pointed out that they really wanted to do everything possible to kneecap trump's first term and foreign

00:06:26.040 policy and with domestic issues and they did a great job at succeeding because you can talk to older

00:06:31.440 white progressives today and they'll still tell you that he's putin's puppet despite the fact

00:06:35.960 you know the the two men are on the world stage still fighting each other in ukraine and still over

00:06:43.840 the long history of the u.s and russia both pre-soviet union and post-soviet union america and by a greater

00:06:49.200 extent the anglosphere and russia have been long-standing geopolitical rivals in the great game so

00:06:54.800 it's very hard to parse through because there is russian influence i mean there are obvious actors

00:06:59.580 involved at trying to disrupt american politics but at the same time what was proposed by the

00:07:05.920 outgoing obama administration does not hold up to snuff but i don't know and most likely it won't

00:07:11.320 lead to any arrests or major change yeah it's obviously the the chance of lock her up

00:07:18.260 echo in your ears right this was a big part of the original trump campaign we knew that hillary

00:07:25.220 clinton had committed crimes that she was responsible at the very least uh for her email

00:07:31.700 scandal and everything involved in that and yet uh nothing came of it you know they threw around this

00:07:37.660 language uh curtis yardeman famously called it uh fishing in the rubicon uh and and uh you you make

00:07:45.000 these promises you you basically say hey if we get into power we will punish our political enemies

00:07:49.920 because they did something wrong and that that is the declaration of a breaking of kind of the

00:07:54.020 informal truce as you pointed out you know there's this informal truce of no matter what happens we

00:07:58.520 just don't you know we don't actually prosecute political enemies even if they did do something

00:08:03.580 wrong or illegal uh and obviously trump threatens this but it doesn't follow up and so when the left

00:08:09.400 gets in the power they do exactly that they do lock trump up they do seek to put him behind bars they

00:08:15.080 do seek to remove him from the political chessboard through uh you know trumped up charges that was their

00:08:21.540 entire goal because once you have introduced this weapon uh the escalation is the only option right

00:08:27.880 and and you that's why you don't fish in the rubicon that's why you don't play with this if you're

00:08:31.980 going to do it do it i'm i'm for it but you got to do it you can't sit around and say oh well we're

00:08:36.900 going to take this action and do nothing and so unfortunately this truly breeds a level of

00:08:42.360 complacency in the population because you know everyone just looks at this and says look these people

00:08:47.820 never get in trouble they never go to jail and even if you say you're going to put them in jail

00:08:51.580 you don't and then they put you in jail so why would i expect anything like great to have this

00:08:56.200 level of disclosure as you said yet another right-wing conspiracy theory and this is why i love the

00:09:00.760 nathan koffnesses of the world oh only the experts can possibly be right no they're just literally wrong

00:09:06.680 all the time your your epistemology is fundamentally broken because it requires a set of um uh qualifications

00:09:15.220 credentials that simply are completely worthless at this point uh you know i would trust a dog trainer

00:09:20.920 over the average uh professional in any kind of soft science uh and so uh and increasingly sadly in

00:09:27.980 the several hard sciences and so you have this situation where like obviously there there's smoke

00:09:35.100 there because there's fire uh but if you never take any action on this if you don't do anything about it

00:09:40.320 then this gets really frustrating before we get too deep into the uh topic let me just read what she had

00:09:46.140 in this press release because it's not that long and everyone's going to want to know uh exactly what

00:09:50.360 got laid out here now there is a accompanying set of documents here they're heavily redacted and

00:09:54.940 obviously it would take us a long time to go through all of them but if you would like to the link is

00:09:59.140 there you can uh follow that and see the documents that she's referencing here but it says on friday

00:10:04.540 director of national intelligence tulsi gabbard reveals overwhelming evidence that demonstrates how

00:10:09.660 after president trump won the 2016 election against hillary clinton president obama and his national

00:10:14.020 security cabinet members manufactured and politicized intelligence to lay the groundwork for what

00:10:18.560 was essentially a years-long coup against the president in the months leading up to november 2016 the

00:10:25.040 intelligence community considered uh consistently assessed russia and said it is probably not trying to

00:10:31.780 influence the election by using cyber means in december 7th 2016 after the election talking points were

00:10:38.340 prepared by dni uh james clapper stating foreign adversaries did not use cyber attacks on the

00:10:44.480 election infrastructure to alter the u.s presidential election outcome then on december 9th 2016 president

00:10:50.600 obama's white house started gathering uh gather top national security council principles for a meeting

00:10:56.560 including james clapper uh brennan susan rice john kerry loretta lynch andrew mccabe and others to discuss

00:11:03.740 russia after that meeting dni clapper's executive assistant sent an email to ic leaders tasking them

00:11:10.300 with creating a new ic assessment per the president's request that details the tools uh moscow used and

00:11:17.020 actions to took uh to influence the 2016 election it was it went on to say that odni will lead this

00:11:24.560 effort with participation from cia fbi nsa and dhs obama officials leaked false statements to media outlets

00:11:32.180 including the washington post claiming that russia had attempted through cyber means to interfere

00:11:37.160 and if not actively influence the outcome of the election and on january january 6 2017 a new

00:11:44.220 intelligence community assessment was released that directly contradicted the ic assessment that was

00:11:49.900 made throughout the previous six months so tulsi gabbard is basically laying out a chain of meetings and

00:11:56.180 documents in which it appears that uh just a few days before uh there you know a few months before

00:12:04.040 we got repeated reports that russia not involved don't worry they aren't influencing the election

00:12:09.680 there isn't significant interference this isn't something we need to worry about we ensure the

00:12:14.400 elections are safe and legitimate and we don't have foreign interference and then we collect all of

00:12:20.300 these principal actors inside the white house and all of a sudden it turns out we need a new

00:12:24.600 uh assessment specifically designed to meet the requests of president obama at that time and

00:12:31.880 magically lo and behold uh it turns out that there was russian interference that all of a sudden we

00:12:38.440 have uh you know evidence for it that didn't exist before and obama officials are leaking these

00:12:43.700 statements so uh again the the actual documents themselves are included and they said they'll be

00:12:49.000 dropping more here soon uh but it does seem that there is a factual chain of custody

00:12:54.580 here with different documentation showing the process that we went through again nothing

00:12:59.400 surprising here uh but it is nice to have this you know kind of a forensic breakdown of how this

00:13:06.220 developed and what the how the narrative was shaped in real time again any any right winger on the

00:13:12.420 internet probably would have told you this is happening uh but it is nice to have the definitive

00:13:16.160 smoking gun of how this was put together yeah and i i think that you know outlying a chain of

00:13:22.860 evidence or chain of custody for how things had broken down things that were kind of publicly

00:13:27.780 telegraphed at least that we could know or at least things that felt pretty circumstantial like

00:13:31.840 there's that famous you know tarmac meeting with loretta lynch at the time and the hillary clinton

00:13:37.720 campaign you know and and the people that were working with her closely and bill meeting with her as

00:13:42.780 well like all these things that had taken place uh it's good to have actual records or intelligence

00:13:47.820 to prove that i mean i don't work with the director of national intelligence i don't work with

00:13:52.040 anyone in the administration i'm very curious to know what records they do have or what didn't get

00:13:56.040 scrubbed or what's been protected by some sort of state secrets act or whatever anything like that

00:14:00.440 but i mean it'll be good to outline it because at least at the very least of it all there will be some

00:14:05.520 formalism in place to say the things that we had talked about now for about a decade have been confirmed

00:14:11.960 by the obvious you know evidence that has been released however redacted or whatever it may be

00:14:17.580 now this act of transparency is good and i think that maybe it moved some of the attention away

00:14:22.560 from some of the other flubs that this administration might have had with transparency and

00:14:26.000 releasing other media lists and things like that but again it comes to show that you know you can post

00:14:32.340 about arresting people and you can rile up your uh your base into doing these things but if you're not

00:14:38.600 actually going to go out and make a case to say that the previous president of the united states

00:14:43.720 effectively committed high treason against the american people then i mean again we have to be

00:14:49.080 realistic i know that the odds of that are we're low anyway but at the same time it's just what are

00:14:54.700 we doing this to confirm our our suspicions like we always do when we're in sort of this like media

00:14:59.420 cycle of always wanting to prove that we've been right this whole time or are we going to be doing

00:15:04.020 something greater because a lot of these people still have significant influence and sway in the

00:15:09.060 intelligence community i know that some of them have had their uh you know intelligence

00:15:12.700 community and some of their secret um clearances you know revoked under this administration which

00:15:17.140 is a good thing but it's not as if they still don't have connections or even human intelligence

00:15:22.060 inside of the existing intel community under this administration and as we know from the first

00:15:26.920 trump administration that we had the joint chiefs of staffs we had the intelligence community

00:15:31.580 working behind the president's back all the time to ensure that he was somewhat contained or his

00:15:37.120 efforts were curtailed um hopefully that changes i mean i get it we're six months into the

00:15:41.980 administration to to the date so i i think that it's important for us to look at all this and

00:15:46.940 realize okay this is good but what happens next and i think that's always the question we should be

00:15:53.080 asking when any kind of bombshell information is released yeah and that's that's really the key

00:15:59.340 here again you know we we just got the disclosure from jake tapper that it's okay for us to now

00:16:06.500 recognize that joe biden was never president it was always the auto pin it was always a cabal of

00:16:13.240 actors inside the white house or the wider uh government apparatus and it was in no way a real

00:16:19.640 presidency in the way that you know was intended by the constitution and yet nothing's going to happen

00:16:25.000 there either right and and this is look uh sitting around and uh predicting uh you know like civil unrest

00:16:34.260 or something over this stuff is at this point kind of laughable if you're not going to do it over

00:16:38.480 covet if you're not going to do it over anyone anything else uh you know obviously it's probably not

00:16:42.980 going to happen here uh so you know that the idea that like you know that there's a lot of ruin in a

00:16:49.080 country as is said and you have a lot of people who will continue to watch uh basically the deep

00:16:56.320 state can you know just can outright control uh the united states without any kind of real apology it

00:17:02.740 doesn't matter if it's uh barack obama completely derailing a elected presidency or whether it's

00:17:09.320 joe biden more or less being used as a puppet to use to uh to initiate a coup and and run the white

00:17:15.600 house with a bunch of unnamed people who are in no way accountable to the to the people of the united

00:17:21.160 states i know it's really hard to lose any more faith in the u.s government at this point

00:17:27.700 uh but is is there any a point at which like there's a a cost to the american government where

00:17:34.540 this actually fails i mean how many times can we have it completely revealed that the game is rigged

00:17:39.680 uh that you know basically it's illegal for a republican to govern the united states uh and that

00:17:45.780 the democrats are more than willing to break the law on every level uh because they know they're just

00:17:50.640 never going to jail like if you don't put someone in jail they're going to keep breaking the law that

00:17:55.060 that's how rule breaking works i don't know i feel like i'm taking crazy pills on this but

00:17:58.980 what do you think well i mean that that's the important question it's just like so

00:18:04.620 what does this all lead to like i i i hate to make such a reference uh on the air but like i feel like

00:18:10.660 it's that post-credit scene from like finding nemo where all the other fish escape the dentist's

00:18:15.040 office they're in their bags and then they're just floating in the ocean and one of the guy goes well

00:18:18.780 now what and it's just like that's the question i ask all the time this is like well now what

00:18:22.700 because a release like this is major to have actual evidence in a chain of evidence that says

00:18:28.180 these are the things that took place that led to the outgoing administration doing everything

00:18:32.760 possible within their means either treasonous or otherwise to set up the incoming president for

00:18:38.520 failure uh when your guy did not win i.e hillary clinton all of that just goes to show okay well

00:18:44.320 what is the cost of this because if not this puts you and i and i think everyone's sort of in the

00:18:49.920 sort of conservative or right-wing media ecosystem in this really weird place because we live in

00:18:54.940 slightly different reality than maybe what the administration lives in or even what the average

00:18:58.400 republican you know mega supporting voter lives in because you and i are tuned in and online all the

00:19:03.540 time so now we're in this sort of cycle where is this more for the content and for people like you

00:19:09.440 and i and for people at oan and fox and everywhere else to sort of talk about these things because now

00:19:14.980 we have another talking point now we can keep ourselves focused on this issue while maybe other

00:19:19.280 things in the administration go on that we may not like or our efforts are directed elsewhere because

00:19:24.880 i already know that barack obama had done everything possible to sabotage trump and continues to still do

00:19:30.480 so with whatever political connections that he has i also know that probably more importantly for me

00:19:35.980 is is that this dignity act that representative salazar from florida is putting forth needs to be

00:19:41.580 destroyed because anytime i hear someone say this is an amnesty i know that it's amnesty and i think

00:19:46.920 that maybe more of our attention should be dragged towards that than something that you and i kind of

00:19:51.600 already know is real and true which is that barack obama and the intelligence community and everyone

00:19:57.280 inside the greater bureaucracy that gets called the deep state did everything to sabotage trump 1.0

00:20:03.700 for a president who did not have i think maybe the best clue of what it meant to to govern the country or

00:20:09.500 operate in the white house at that time

00:20:11.580 well last thing before we move on i i you've alluded to it a few times and i think it's important

00:20:17.460 because i had it scratching in the back of my head the way that trump responded to the epstein stuff was

00:20:23.380 particularly tone deaf right a lot of people came out and said well i think it's because his he's like

00:20:29.080 in the files or something i don't think that's the case anything's possible but i i i've never felt like

00:20:35.480 that's probably the motivation there the thing that was always in my head is like he kept comparing it to

00:20:41.080 russiagate and all these other things and uh you know oh it's just like the democrats fake stuff it's

00:20:46.640 obviously not the same but i kept thinking to myself are they gonna release something on that

00:20:51.540 because he seems so obsessed with the russiagate stuff again all of a sudden and calling that a

00:20:57.240 hoax and so and i'm to be clear i'm not um i'm in no way justifying or covering for the trump

00:21:03.360 administration's terrible handling of the epstein files and everything involved there however at the

00:21:09.160 back of my mind it was you know i'm thinking the whole time is this going to be the case

00:21:13.000 do you think that the reason that trump handled the epstein stuff so badly is he knew that this

00:21:19.760 stuff was coming down the pipe and he was thinking to himself i want this to be the main uh i want this

00:21:26.600 to be the main story i want this to be the main issue uh you know that this is this is how they

00:21:32.080 attacked me uh when i was coming in we finally got the evidence that we're going to break this and

00:21:36.420 this is going to be a huge case do you think he was mainly concerned about the epstein stuff

00:21:40.720 like taking over all of his uh revelations about the obama administration what they did

00:21:47.620 or do you think this was purely reactive just like well we've been working on this and things haven't

00:21:53.400 been going so great otherwise so it's time to kick this out well if there's one thing that we can learn

00:21:58.540 from maybe the first trump administration is is that trump has the ability to set the media agenda

00:22:03.640 very well when things don't play his way i mean a misspelled tweet i think that was meant to say

00:22:09.300 coverage you know covefe or whatever that was on the news headlines and chyrons for like a week

00:22:14.200 when he in the first administration and because he was tweeting he effectively would set the agenda

00:22:19.420 that put the reporters in the reaction slash you know like oh we're on the defensive because we're

00:22:26.040 not the ones setting the headlines i mean trump isn't on twitter as often i mean yes there's truth

00:22:30.260 and he can still post whatever he wants but i think that it's safe to say or at least based on

00:22:34.840 my gut that uh his past track record tells me that when things don't go his way in terms of the press

00:22:40.840 that we shift to another issue and i mean covering something that you and i mean i think trump is the

00:22:46.520 kind of guy that definitely does hold a grudge against people i mean uh a lot of people like to

00:22:50.480 say that it's the seth meyers barack obama jokes from like 2013 that finally told trump to go run

00:22:55.640 for president just to say screw you to obama however true that may be like we know that the

00:22:59.800 media has a huge impact on the way that he acts and governs himself and so i i think that to some

00:23:04.820 extent yeah this was probably like we need to shift gears so that people know that we're still on board

00:23:10.120 and we can throw a little bit of red meat to the base and i mean i think trump's coalition in 2021

00:23:16.320 or 2025 is way different than it was in 2016 or 2017 so how much of people want to remember

00:23:22.220 russia gator care about it is a whole other question but i mean it does reiterate things

00:23:26.880 that you and i know and that even our our parents or our older relatives might know that have voted

00:23:31.420 for trump but like obama was bad he did all these things to screw trump over before he even got into

00:23:36.560 the white house and he is evil or whatever like those those are things that we can all kind of

00:23:41.540 basically agree on and so i i don't know if it's anything other than like oh we need to shift gears

00:23:47.000 and try and change media coverage and perhaps it was sort of set up but um thankfully however at

00:23:53.480 least on our like i said on like the twitter timeline or whatever our our attention rapidly

00:23:58.120 shifts so fast that uh people have kind of stopped talking about epstein and then made other characters

00:24:04.200 online far more interesting whether it is the russia gate stuff or even the other topic that we have in

00:24:10.860 mind for today yeah so let's let's move on there because you're right unfortunately the churn

00:24:15.880 is real and it leaves everything behind it and at this point that's something that pretty much every

00:24:23.080 uh actor political actor can count on that holding the public's attention on a particular uh issue for

00:24:29.620 any amount of time is going to be a very difficult and so if you can weather the initial uh storm

00:24:35.160 the public will move on to something else uh and uh what uh may have single-handedly knocked uh really

00:24:42.000 much more than the um russia gate stuff which might have knocked

00:24:45.880 epstein out of the discussion here is this news about israel uh striking a church in gaza so uh this

00:24:53.900 is a report from axios uh the axios uh report here is claiming uh now we know for sure three people

00:25:00.940 were killed and uh 10 more injured in this attack uh last week uh apparently it's a tank that was fired

00:25:10.680 in the direction of uh this church now uh the according to the report and remember this is axios

00:25:18.780 so we're not taking this as gospel here but uh according to the report uh basically trump got

00:25:24.800 outraged when he heard about the attack called up benjamin netanyahu wanted to know why there had been

00:25:30.280 no apology issued why there had been no acknowledgement of the attack on this church in gaza uh killing these

00:25:37.160 three people uh once he did call then uh israel issued a uh apology uh which for those who don't

00:25:45.020 know is very odd you know israel pretty much never uh issues any kind of apology for the type of stuff

00:25:51.640 it's doing in a war uh very much definitely not their uh their standard procedure uh here uh but here's

00:25:58.600 the the text of uh what israel put out israel deeply regrets the straight ammunition hit gaza's uh holy

00:26:05.460 family church every innocent life lost as a tragedy we share the grief of the families and faithful uh

00:26:11.220 we are grateful for pope leo for his words of comfort israel is invest investigating the incident

00:26:15.620 and remains committed to protecting civilians and holy sites uh now uh cardinal presbola uh who uh is it

00:26:23.220 yeah presbola uh who is the latin i'm not too sure i don't know how to pronounce it forgive me

00:26:27.400 yeah he's the latin patriarch of jerusalem uh but he said that the tank fired on the church

00:26:33.220 um and he said he was not sure about this being an accident because it hit the church directly so

00:26:40.020 this isn't like a a bomb that you know dropped from a plane and then despite the the title sorry

00:26:45.360 i had to make the pun with the bombs uh but this is not a bomb dropped from a plane that happened to

00:26:50.420 drift a little too far this is uh this is a fire from a tank uh so it had to be aimed at some level now

00:26:56.620 it's not like tanks can't miss so there is the possibility that this was not uh an intended fire target

00:27:02.960 but you know people on the ground and including the cardinal there saying this might not be the case

00:27:08.660 so this is really interesting because uh first a lot of ill will uh well first i should say just

00:27:15.720 before we do anything else this is terrible the deaths of christians is horrible uh the israeli

00:27:21.640 government has uh apologized but they absolutely should and should be held accountable uh for the

00:27:27.200 for the killing of christians in gaza uh before we talk about any kind of political implication

00:27:31.820 understanding uh that these people being killed was horrific and that should be uh the main focus

00:27:37.680 of what's going on here now that said the political implications uh are pretty large israel has already

00:27:45.300 lost a lot of i think public uh goodwill with what's going on october 7th it's always you know it had a lot

00:27:53.400 of uh it had a casus bell to kind of involve itself in many different uh conflicts and to including at this

00:28:00.340 point gaza and iran and uh syria all simultaneously somehow and you know all the other uh countries

00:28:08.820 that it's currently uh fighting uh lebanon and such uh however uh the the fact that that has continued to

00:28:15.920 wear down is pretty obvious uh to the point where even michael knolls on the daily wire after this

00:28:21.800 happened said israel is losing me he just said straight up israel is losing me in this war if this is how

00:28:27.460 it's going to conduct itself um you know i'm a catholic i can't stand by and be quiet about this

00:28:32.680 uh you know and and there were a number of catholics who were you know pretty uh pretty understandably

00:28:38.500 enraged in this now the very weird turn uh that this took was that uh joel berry of the babylon b decided

00:28:48.620 that even though israel had already apologized and admitted that this was a mistake and said yeah we

00:28:56.240 shouldn't have done this all these things joel berry for some reason decided to come out and start

00:29:01.840 talking like this now this is just a few he had a lot of tweets on this that he got really destroyed

00:29:08.560 over but he said this won't be easy for people to hear but there are only about 200 professed catholics

00:29:14.300 still living in gaza and they all support hamas true christian faith still exists in gaza but it's

00:29:19.360 all underground anyone allowed uh by hamas to practice openly is allowed to do so only because they

00:29:25.680 aid and support the terror regime so joel berry comes out very directly and says well these

00:29:30.740 catholics had it coming because no christian would be allowed to operate inside of palestine like

00:29:37.700 inside of gaza and so if you are uh open openly christian inside of gaza the only thing that can

00:29:43.900 mean is that you are complicit with the hamas uh and so therefore it is okay if israel shoots you

00:29:50.720 uh because really at the end of the day uh you are uh on the side of hamas and that's all that

00:29:57.400 matters it doesn't matter that you're theoretically joel berry's fellow christian israel is allowed to

00:30:03.880 kill you you kind of stop being a real christian if israel shoots at you i guess it's kind of the

00:30:09.920 like that that israel gets to decide whether or not you're a christian by whether or not they're

00:30:14.360 directing tank fire at you which uh i mean he got rightly destroyed on this it was really disgusting

00:30:20.040 yeah and again how much of this was accidental or intentional i don't think you and i will ever

00:30:27.260 get the the full truth i don't think there's going to be some sort of commission or report or an

00:30:31.860 interview with tank crews that are going to give us an answer to that i mean uh from the photographs

00:30:37.240 and everything like that boy it sure looks like a pot shot was taken at the cross at the top of church

00:30:41.820 could be wrong it does uh really does um and i mean it's not as if uh christians living in israel or in

00:30:49.580 that part of the world palestine has had a great time since it stopped being a majority christian

00:30:55.520 area whether it comes from islamic conquests or the creation of the state of israel since 1948

00:31:01.640 um now of course i think that the state of israel knows that it has to keep this very strange balance

00:31:07.160 going on especially in places like jerusalem or in other holy sites to both christian and jewish and

00:31:13.640 muslim faiths around i think that is an incredibly politically tight rope that they have to walk on

00:31:18.960 um and so this is on top of the fact as you had mentioned earlier where since october 7th for a

00:31:24.780 variety of reasons a lot of it due to changing demographics of the united states where the

00:31:29.140 political opinion on israel has changed as well as the things that many people on the right would

00:31:34.280 get canceled for i mean you had said this i think on tom woods's show where like russell kirk had been

00:31:39.000 canceled for making a comment on the relationship between the united states and israel and the united

00:31:43.560 states congress the same things that pat buchanan or joe soberan or sam francis these sort of

00:31:48.700 intellectual heavyweights of various stripes in the united states right uh had been tried or at least

00:31:54.240 attempted to see cancellation for them and i know joe soberan and others had faced that kind of

00:31:58.160 cancellation um and it really does just go to show that this is trying to peel back an uncomfortable

00:32:03.940 history of over you know 2 000 years now of you know christianity being in jerusalem and the

00:32:12.020 surrounding parts of judea and palestine because it's not as if uh we go from the book of acts to today

00:32:17.860 it's not as if they've had the best time living in that region to begin with and so now given you know

00:32:24.040 the israel public affairs debacle that they've been dealing with now for the last several you know

00:32:28.000 last two years almost now it really raises the question of like well what's going to happen

00:32:32.920 next i mean i was surprised to see mike huckabee who i don't know his exact theological positions

00:32:39.140 i think he is some kind of uh christian zionist and dispensationalist i could be wrong a dispensationalist

00:32:45.440 i'm pretty sure yeah uh and so like even even with that to see him visit and to even make the statement

00:32:51.140 of threatening to publicly condemn and that any attack on a synagogue a church or a mosque is bad and

00:32:57.480 that we shouldn't allow these things to happen i was genuinely surprised to see him visit with the

00:33:02.360 um latin churches as well as with the orthodox uh you know clergymen and leadership in the in the area

00:33:08.760 they're already as you mentioned there's an incredibly small minority that already exists

00:33:13.080 there but i mean i think barry's take that like we're going to somehow put upon a curse of association

00:33:20.260 because of his view of world war ii in catholicism uh and you know we're going to somehow punish people

00:33:27.340 that have been you know persecuted for their faith for centuries in this part of the world is beyond

00:33:33.080 wild to me and it goes to the same thing that uh we've seen written by um you know camu when it

00:33:39.960 comes to like things like the great replacement and the you know the post-war order that we have

00:33:44.580 replaced satan and we have replaced everything else with the specter of world war ii and adolf hitler

00:33:50.520 and because of that association of whatever happened in the 1940s that is the new ancestral

00:33:56.360 curse that we all hold on to there's no more original sin it's just what did your ancestors do

00:34:01.680 during the 1930s and 40s and for joel berry that just means that we have to support israel at all

00:34:07.160 costs and denigrate anyone who may have opposition to what the israeli government's doing or the

00:34:12.620 persecution that they may endure and just associate them with terrorism or worse associate

00:34:17.340 them with fascism uh you know paul gottfried's written about this before in his book anti-fascism

00:34:22.080 the course of crusade where that's sort of the post-war order that we have in the united states

00:34:27.080 that we always have to compare things to fascism we used the term the axis of evil on the same way we

00:34:32.700 talk about the axis powers in world war ii when it came to the invasion of iraq in 2003 from george w bush

00:34:37.600 david from wrote that and david from is still on twitter posting these things like dude you don't have

00:34:41.680 the world's best track record on this issue either um and so unfortunately it's very it's depressing

00:34:48.800 because this loss of life and for if it's intentional uh then this martyrdom of these of these catholic

00:34:55.540 christians in the area uh has been turned into unfortunately a political tool for american

00:35:01.600 conservative media which of course is overwhelmingly christian to debate about theology and the issues

00:35:07.200 there and never about sort of this uh ongoing relationship between um strange theological

00:35:13.660 positions and the uh christians united for israel or anything like that uh playing a role on how the

00:35:20.140 united states engages with a country that has been at least geographically contains the borders of the

00:35:26.480 majority of the faithful in the united states and we don't seem to do anything about it so it's really

00:35:32.160 unfortunate all around and uh anytime that someone tries to approach this there's always either the

00:35:36.540 accusation of anti-semitism of being a heretic or whatever and it just gets ugly very quickly

00:35:41.820 yeah as tucker carlson has pointed out multiple times it seems like the point of american foreign

00:35:48.240 policy is to kill christians like no matter no matter what we do we end up uh hurting christian

00:35:54.020 minorities uh in the middle east on a regular basis and and to to frame some of what you're saying

00:35:59.700 there not only was mike huckabee incensed over this attack but mike huckabee was also getting

00:36:05.940 very aggressive with the israeli government because apparently they have regularly refused visas

00:36:12.460 to christians coming in there with under the suspicion that they might be missionaries that

00:36:17.580 they might be wanting to share the christian faith wire than israel and of course israel

00:36:21.380 doesn't want you know people converting to christianity that the jewish state does not want

00:36:27.380 its people to become christian so they actively reject people who want to come over and talk to

00:36:32.840 people about their faith in christ uh you know this is something that people don't talk a lot about

00:36:38.060 uh people you know a lot of the christians you know especially uh dispensationalists or zionist

00:36:43.960 christians do not want to talk about this fact that israel has this understanding about the way they

00:36:48.500 should maintain their religious ethno state uh but this is absolutely the way that they operate and so

00:36:53.260 mike huckabee after watching everything we've done for israel watching these people now turn around and say

00:36:59.220 you can't come in because you're christian and you might talk to people about jesus christ and then

00:37:04.020 shoot at a catholic church if you're israel and you're losing mike huckabee things aren't going well

00:37:11.020 for you right like that that's that's a bad sign like when when mike huckabee is looking at you and

00:37:16.880 saying i don't know guys like i i'm starting to want to wonder that you know these people might not be

00:37:22.720 our greatest ally if if they're rejecting uh christians to come in because they're worried that they might talk

00:37:28.440 about christ and they're firing on churches even if it's an accident like not great like they have

00:37:34.280 to be forced to apologize uh you know if that if that isn't even an accident that's a pretty big deal

00:37:40.900 and the fact that barry weighed into this the way he did was very destructive and and this is what

00:37:48.820 really worried me is a lot of catholics and i get this because you know the catholic protestant and

00:37:55.580 orthodox divide has been there for a long time obviously things you know jokes get thrown around

00:38:01.320 but then also serious accusations get thrown around uh you know a lot of people were like well

00:38:06.020 joe berry just is an anti-catholic bigot which hey i'm not here to dispute that at this point but

00:38:11.380 joe berry you know he he uh doesn't think that catholics are real christians and again i can't

00:38:17.600 really i don't you know i can't speak for joe berry on this what i can say is that uh while i understand

00:38:23.500 that that has you know there there's some bad blood there there has been some brotherly uh chiding

00:38:29.300 back and forth over this ultimately uh it's really important that that not become the focus here

00:38:35.020 because that's joe berry was not going after your catholic doctrine that's not why he made these posts

00:38:40.780 guys it wasn't about an evangelical you know telling catholics that they're not real christians i have

00:38:46.320 catholics tell me that i'm as a southern baptist i'm not a real christian all the time

00:38:50.640 you know happens on twitter whatever my life will go on me and jesus are are just fine uh however

00:38:55.920 uh you know that is not the reason that joe berry was saying this it had nothing to do with whether

00:39:02.640 catholics are real christians i know he has like this whole side quest about you know catholics in

00:39:08.160 general uh when it comes to world war ii because everything's world war ii uh but ultimately this is

00:39:14.200 about joe berry and many others unfortunately looking and saying whatever israel does is fine

00:39:20.040 and i don't care if it hurts christians i don't care yeah if they're catholic then maybe they're

00:39:24.740 not even real christian whatever whatever justification i need there's a blank check for

00:39:29.820 the way that is and again remember israel had already admitted fault had already apologized so he

00:39:36.420 is more radical on this than the israeli government even was and so the fact that like he was willing to

00:39:43.180 just go hard in the paint on this really sent a lot of catholics saying oh well this is evangelicals

00:39:48.600 this is all evangelicals now guys i know there are a lot of uh dispensationalist evangelicals i'm aware

00:39:54.840 of this but remember many of us are also not and please understand at the heart of this this is not

00:40:00.100 a division between catholics and baptists or catholics and evangelicals that's not what the issue is here

00:40:06.640 okay like i we can have we can hash that out but please don't lose the force for the trees here

00:40:11.720 all evangelicals do not hate you because joel berry said something insane joel berry is not the pope

00:40:17.260 of evangelicals we don't have one of those he's not he's not speaking uh for you know from the seat

00:40:22.760 of the holy sea like he's he's some guy running a comedy website who regularly says absolutely

00:40:29.740 unhinged things in support of israel and this is just the next unhinged thing i i i said this early

00:40:36.420 on about joel i and he like lost his mind about it because like oh how could this possibly and the

00:40:41.820 evidence is just here like it's just there black and white like this is who he is this is how he

00:40:45.680 conducts himself and he's got all the worst people in the world you know there's not very

00:40:48.900 many people defending him at this point but it's guy it's guys like james lindsey you know obviously

00:40:54.200 he's got to lash himself to this whole thing and so that's it's a small it's a you got to see these

00:41:00.100 people as as guys in a bunker just screaming uh absolutely insane stuff because they know they're

00:41:05.560 losing as opposed to like actually taking this seriously and putting a dividing line between

00:41:10.900 and evangelicals and catholics at this point christians do not be need to be divided again

00:41:15.640 about over the death of christians okay that i am incredibly sad that these three catholics have died

00:41:23.020 and i can be just as sad as that as a southern baptist like you really don't we need we don't

00:41:28.160 need these artificial divisions about this yeah i agree with you this is a forest for the trees moment

00:41:34.040 with a lot of this this sort of fighting like if you want to have people like joel make this an issue

00:41:39.040 about the israeli state or you want to use this to re-litigate and reaffirm your doctrinal beliefs

00:41:47.220 about the second world war and the post-war consensus fine so be it but like that's not the

00:41:51.700 issue that really matters to me right now the issue that matters to me is is that on the world stage the

00:41:56.900 united states has been at the forefront of supporting policies that inadvertently hurt the center of the

00:42:03.540 faith and the people that tend to profess it the most inside the united states and whether tucker

00:42:08.880 uh position about like you know we always end up with more dead christians everywhere we go

00:42:12.340 i mean so far that seems to be true at least within my lifetime yeah um yeah so like that's concerning

00:42:17.100 but at the same time it does really illustrate that there has been sort of this shift since october 7th

00:42:22.220 on the question of the relationship between israel and the united states will that lead to any

00:42:27.460 significant change i does do not know remains to be seen i think a lot of the things that um other

00:42:34.340 you know right-wing writers had thought about in the past whether it be robert whitaker or sam francis

00:42:41.100 on these relationships is like a lot of the positions that have been taken on and we talked

00:42:44.780 about this you know years ago about oh it feels like two years ago with the claudine gay stuff where

00:42:49.060 a lot of the the anti uh israel or the anti-zionist protests came out there were you know railing

00:42:55.420 against settler colonialism and now you're sort of seeing this like emergence of this like anti-woke

00:43:00.480 neoconservatism we're like well we're against all these things but we have special exceptions for

00:43:04.860 obvious reasons and it's like that's fine to have exceptions because everyone is going to be a

00:43:09.260 supporter of the thing that they identify with that's just sort of the logical conclusion of

00:43:13.920 robert conquest's like first rule everyone's conservative about the thing they know the most

00:43:17.520 about and that means our identities but at the end of the day this is going to just boil down to the

00:43:22.040 fact that you have awful actors out there online that are willing to stir the pot and you know start

00:43:28.900 crap over churches and theology and doctrinal issues for all sides it does not matter your

00:43:35.520 church or denomination on this issue uh they're trying to drag you in and instead we're looking

00:43:40.000 at the fact that oh historically speaking the united states has been at the forefront of supporting a

00:43:44.260 country that has been antagonistic for thousands of years against your religion and you know there's

00:43:50.620 very difficult things in there and at the same time we're diehard supporters of what israel does in

00:43:55.640 terms of its border control policy and things like that about preserving its intent while we can't

00:44:00.040 even have the same thing for ourselves i would love to have the same border control policy that israel

00:44:04.700 does for the united states that would be amazing but at the same time we can't even have that

00:44:09.500 conversation because we often get lost like you said forest for the trees when actors go out there

00:44:14.420 to deliberately stir the pot yeah i would like to see the united states stop involving itself in

00:44:20.420 military operations that end up with dead christians i think that's a perfectly reasonable goal

00:44:24.940 and i would hope that other people who have espoused their idea of american identity being

00:44:34.140 singularly placed on christian faith i would hope those same people would value the lives of christians

00:44:41.460 elsewhere i understand you know we're not going to be able to save every christian there is a we there

00:44:47.440 is a proximity thing where obviously we have to care for the christians in our nation first and we

00:44:52.380 cannot run around uh you know fighting a war on behalf of every single christian across the world

00:44:57.420 but the very least we cannot involve ourselves in conflicts that are obviously repeatedly ending in

00:45:04.680 christian minorities being killed in other countries and i want to make it this clear because it should

00:45:10.220 need to be said but i'll say it just in case because i know people will take it out of context or

00:45:14.080 you know somewhere james lindsey is doing his media matters thing trying to clip what we're saying here

00:45:18.700 uh because he does it all the time it's actually all he does with his time these days uh however uh

00:45:24.100 this does not mean that islam is your friend it's not islam is anti-christian it's anti-western it

00:45:30.000 does not belong in the west it should hold no sway here uh it does not mean that hamas is good they

00:45:35.760 are not obviously like there are plenty of muslim terror groups out there and they are evil and they

00:45:40.440 hate you so the whole you know people running around being like yeah well it'll be christian and

00:45:45.200 islam no there is no alliance here these people hate you too uh so just please remember that uh

00:45:51.000 when we're talking about these things this is in no way an endorsement of islam or hamas or a defense

00:45:55.880 of any of those forces uh but but every catholic in gaza is not some random member of hamas who then

00:46:04.940 can be fired on by a tank uh that assertion is absolutely it's evil it's evil and saying it and not

00:46:10.920 and doubling down on it and not apologizing uh it's it's horrible it's just it's a horrible way

00:46:16.060 to conduct yourself uh especially towards people you pretend are your christian uh brothers and

00:46:20.840 sisters all right guys we're gonna go ahead and wrap this one or sorry we got uh some questions from

00:46:26.640 the people here real quick so before we go to the questions there uh mr prudentialist where can people

00:46:31.480 find your excellent work sure you can find me on twitter at mr prudentialist or the prudentialist

00:46:36.560 dot substack dot com i'm going to have an article out this week sort of looking at how twitter affects

00:46:41.760 our ability to engage with the news uh i am usually live on thursdays with a show called live from the

00:46:47.380 pond where i also cover current events and things like that and for those interested in sort of the

00:46:52.580 books or the literature that inform my worldview are also just sort of influential and sort of the

00:46:57.080 political right uh i have a show called do you even read with a friend of mine um from the blood

00:47:01.840 satellite podcast i think he'd be a great guest for you oran and we're going to cover a recent book

00:47:05.900 that came out called uh anti-memetics why some ideas resist spreading and it's going to sort of

00:47:11.560 look at our information ecosystem on how certain memes and ideas work like why oran sign tapping on

00:47:17.620 twitter works compared to some form of posting online so if you're interested in that we'll be

00:47:22.160 live next monday in the evening but as always oran thank you so much for having me on it's always a

00:47:26.540 pleasure to talk with you absolutely always a pleasure to have you on and cool dude agrees he says prude is

00:47:32.120 always a great guest another cool dude you might even say thank you oran yes always fantastic to

00:47:38.260 have our favorite frog here with us doing the commentary all right guys uh we're gonna go ahead

00:47:44.360 and wrap this up it's if it's your first time on this channel please make sure that you subscribe

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00:48:13.200 off and as always thank you for watching guys i will talk to you next time

The Auron MacIntyre Show - July 21, 2025

Russiagate Bombshell and the Bombing of a Catholic Church ｜ Guest： The Prudentialist ｜ 7⧸21⧸25

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