The Auron MacIntyre Show - Selling Off the Family ｜ 3⧸29⧸24

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00:00:30.000 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.780 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.580 I am Oren McIntyre.

00:00:35.900 So we talk a lot about big government, right?

00:00:38.160 The right conservatives.

00:00:40.380 Big government is the enemy.

00:00:41.620 Big government is the problem.

00:00:43.220 If we could just cut the government,

00:00:44.860 if we could just get rid of big government,

00:00:46.660 that's the real issue.

00:00:48.560 Once it's gone, everything will be fine.

00:00:50.840 Everything will go back to normal.

00:00:52.980 But we very rarely talk about how we got big government.

00:00:56.300 Yeah, okay, government gives away free stuff.

00:00:58.800 We get it.

00:01:00.000 But it's more than that.

00:01:01.280 There's a lot of economic incentives that brought us big government.

00:01:06.240 There's a lot of cultural decisions that we made that have created big government.

00:01:12.180 And I think probably the largest one,

00:01:14.100 the one that has had the most profound impact on our society,

00:01:19.060 is the way in which we have broken up the different pieces of the family and sold off its responsibilities in the marketplace.

00:01:28.420 And this is something that conservatives have been complicit in.

00:01:32.000 It's something that they have engaged in at every turn and are usually in favor of.

00:01:37.240 And that shift from the understanding of the community as a set of families to a set of individuals,

00:01:44.520 one that the conservatives have bought into because of its economic advantages,

00:01:49.940 has been devastating.

00:01:51.700 Family formation, the ability of people to have children, own homes, create community,

00:01:56.980 and very importantly, then take care of themselves and not rely on that big government,

00:02:03.420 not allow it to enter into our lives.

00:02:07.840 So I want to talk about today, I want to talk about the ways in which we have transferred

00:02:11.900 so many of our important, critical, and I think sacred obligations of family into the marketplace

00:02:19.480 and why that's had the impact that it has.

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00:05:04.160 All right.

00:05:04.520 So the family, right?

00:05:06.720 Like I said, we constantly talk about big government.

00:05:09.860 Big government is the problem.

00:05:11.440 Conservatives, we have to fight big government.

00:05:13.440 We have to get rid of it.

00:05:14.380 So that's the real issue.

00:05:16.060 And, of course, there's truth to this, for sure.

00:05:18.500 The government has scaled up too large.

00:05:20.800 It's taken over too much responsibility.

00:05:23.120 It has too many programs.

00:05:24.840 It's taking too much of your money.

00:05:26.260 And this gives it an overwhelming amount of power.

00:05:29.320 It gets to make all kinds of decisions and enter all kinds of spheres that it should not be involved in.

00:05:34.340 But like I said, we usually don't think about how that happened.

00:05:37.540 Government just got bigger somehow.

00:05:39.980 You know, they made a bunch of programs, and that's the end of it.

00:05:43.200 But that's not really how it worked.

00:05:46.080 I think one of the core shifts that has made the growth of government possible is the shift from family, the focus on the family, to take a James Dobson reference, and shifting that to the individual.

00:05:59.380 You see, there's a political theorist called Bertrand de Juvenal.

00:06:04.560 And in his book On Power, Bertrand de Juvenal talks a lot about the spheres of social influence, the spheres of social power.

00:06:13.000 And he says what really keeps government from growing, what really keeps the government's power from expanding, the state's power from expanding, it's not a constitution.

00:06:24.340 It's not checks and balances.

00:06:25.560 It's not a bunch of written rules.

00:06:27.780 Those are nice, but they don't actually restrict government's growth.

00:06:31.720 The thing that keeps government smaller is that other social spheres demand people's allegiance.

00:06:38.220 You see, whether we like it or not, we are not isolated individuals.

00:06:43.520 We are dependent on others, and others are naturally dependent on us.

00:06:48.800 Forgive me, but we live in a society, more or less.

00:06:52.280 And because we live in a society, if we have these different spheres like family and church and community organizations that require us to pay dues and spend time and focus on them, give our money and our efforts, our loyalty, then government can only demand so much of us.

00:07:12.580 And that's critical because the more government is allowed to demand from us, the more it can grow.

00:07:18.880 And so the more the government can have us be less dependent on those organizations and more dependent on the government, the more power it can capture.

00:07:28.440 Now, originally, most societies understood that family was the core and not just the nuclear family, not just the one that we think of to two parents and two kids, but the extended family, really the entire clan, the entire tribe was the basic unit of civilization.

00:07:50.340 You needed to have that level of civilization, you needed to have that level of support because really government just hadn't gotten that big.

00:07:56.480 There wasn't enough efficiency.

00:07:58.000 There weren't massive bureaucracies.

00:07:59.800 There wasn't the ability to take over all the things that families did.

00:08:05.280 And so that meant that they had to allow and they had to rely on the cohesiveness of a family as kind of the basic unit.

00:08:13.440 The smallest you could really get would be that nuclear family. 0.73

00:08:17.620 That was as small as the as the allowable unit in a civilization could become because you were so dependent on each other that you at the very least had to have kind of that that mother and father, that child and parent relationship to bond each other together, to provide for each other and do all the things that society needed that government couldn't hope to provide.

00:08:41.580 But we have shifted to the individual and one of the things that sold this to people, of course, is that family and community are expensive and time consuming.

00:08:54.560 If you have to take care of your children, you lose all your free time to do, I don't know, play a lot of World or Warcraft or, you know, spend a lot of time watching things while drinking wine with your cat.

00:09:07.600 You have a lot of responsibilities that limit your free time.

00:09:12.140 And if you have to take care of your parents, you have to take care of your brothers and sisters.

00:09:16.100 You have to care about your nieces and nephews.

00:09:18.240 If they get in trouble, if they need help, that's an expanded sphere of responsibility.

00:09:23.320 And if you have to go to your church and take care of your neighbor through the community there and all these other organizations, those are large demands on your time.

00:09:33.960 Alexis de Tocqueville in Democracy in America talked about how the key to America's prosperity was really the voluntary associations it entered into.

00:09:44.440 The amount of free time that people spent, well, not having free time, binding their time up into these communities, sacrificing for each other and entering into them.

00:09:55.260 And because they had this level of virtue and this social, this civic vigor, they didn't need a bunch of government taking care of these things because they had already assembled the necessary social fabric to control and care for people who slipped through the cracks and had these problems.

00:10:15.400 But we have dissolved a lot of effort, but we have dissolved a lot of effort and we didn't want to do that.

00:10:21.100 And the juvenile points us out in On Power.

00:10:23.320 He says, look, one of the reasons that government has grown to an unprecedented size, but steep people still think that they're freer than anyone has ever been in modern America is because they don't have all of those other social responsibilities.

00:10:39.740 And this wasn't just because it removed, we didn't just encourage this because it removed those social responsibilities.

00:10:47.200 There's also an economic incentive.

00:10:49.520 When the individual doesn't have all these bonds, when the individual is no longer required to care for a large number of people, no longer involved in the community, no longer expected to take on certain family and community responsibilities, they are suddenly freed up in a very big way for capitalist demands.

00:11:13.440 If you have a business, if you have a company that wants to move people from one place to another and they have deep roots in that community, well, they're probably not going to go.

00:11:26.200 They're not going to move with capital to this new area.

00:11:29.620 They're not going to move with that business to that new area.

00:11:33.700 And so that means that they are locked into their community.

00:11:37.180 They're not willing to break up the thing that they have there just because you decided to move the factory somewhere else.

00:11:43.780 You decided to move the jobs somewhere else.

00:11:47.060 And conservatives do this all the time.

00:11:49.100 They say, oh, well, no, of course you should move away from your family.

00:11:51.740 You should move away from your town, the place where you live, and chase opportunities somewhere else.

00:11:57.520 That's part of the American dream.

00:11:59.200 That's part of it.

00:12:00.080 You have to be economically mobile.

00:12:01.700 You have to be willing to move geographically to go ahead and follow the jobs, the opportunities, wherever they go.

00:12:08.640 When they say wherever the opportunities, wherever they go, they mean capital is moving somewhere else.

00:12:13.640 And maybe capital decides to shut down the factory in your hometown and desolate everybody there, make sure that they lose their jobs, lose the ability to maintain what made that town functional.

00:12:23.940 And you just have to be willing to do that because, really, you're an individual, and you're not responsible to a family or a community.

00:12:31.800 You're an individual who should be mobile all the time and willing to chase these opportunities, right?

00:12:37.920 And so we hear about this where conservatives will say, oh, why do we have big government?

00:12:43.880 Why do we have the government taking care of all these things that families used to take care of? 1.00

00:12:48.420 But in the next breath, they say, but of course, a company should be able to move all its jobs across the country if it feels like it at a moment's notice, or should be able to move those jobs over to some foreign country at a moment's notice.

00:13:00.200 That's just capitalism.

00:13:01.540 That's just freedom.

00:13:02.800 Now, look, of course, I think that communism and socialism is a disaster.

00:13:07.700 It doesn't work.

00:13:08.480 But the unbridled form of capitalism, the idea that capitalism is some suicide pact that we have to sign on to, no matter what it does to our communities, is insane.

00:13:20.380 Capitalism is a tool for the betterment of our communities.

00:13:23.500 It's not a god to worship.

00:13:25.240 If it does good things, if it's the best economic system for the people it is serving, then you should follow it.

00:13:32.200 But if it ends up having problems, if it ends up devastating communities, then you need to think about what's going on.

00:13:39.140 You need to think about what is happening.

00:13:41.040 And so a lot of what has happened is that conservatives, Republicans have decided to go ahead and tear down communities because it works with their kind of economic plan.

00:13:51.800 It works with their economic ideology.

00:13:53.360 At the end of the day, we're individualists.

00:13:55.740 It's all about the individual.

00:13:57.260 Now, don't get me wrong.

00:13:58.500 Of course, it was always important to have heroic individuals, great men.

00:14:02.700 There were always people who were on their own or kind of had this drive to go beyond the community.

00:14:09.380 And you don't want to restrict people to the point where you're stopping that.

00:14:13.180 But you also can't pretend that every single person is like this.

00:14:16.780 And this is the real problem, is assuming that every single person is an entrepreneur, that every single person is a captain of industry or a great man in some way.

00:14:27.380 This is kind of the libertarian fallacy, right?

00:14:29.500 If we just remove all of these bonds, all these requirements, then everyone will achieve this stuff.

00:14:35.500 Well, no, actually, they won't.

00:14:36.780 Most people will fail.

00:14:37.720 Most people need to be bound up in those communities.

00:14:40.700 Most people are dependent in significant ways on communities.

00:14:44.500 And you need some way for the average person to be able to make a living, have a family, have meaning in their life, have support.

00:14:53.040 And if they don't get it from their families, if they don't get it from the community, eventually they will get it from the government.

00:15:00.640 And that's a big problem, is that we have moved many of the responsibilities of the family out of the social sphere of the family or community and into the marketplace.

00:15:13.100 The terminology that I often like to use for this, borrowing it from Nick Land, is de-territorialization and re-territorialization.

00:15:21.740 Throughout history, there are certain duties, in fact, most duties, were bound up in sacred communal understandings.

00:15:31.340 Okay, you have a personal bond to your family.

00:15:34.340 You have a personal bond to your parents, to your siblings, to your church, to your tribe, everything.

00:15:39.900 You have a deep bond to those people.

00:15:42.320 And that means that you are reliant on them and they are reliant on you.

00:15:46.860 And that had nothing to do with monetary exchange and everything to do with your moral and spiritual duty to those people.

00:15:55.860 However, what we've done is we've taken so many of those responsibilities, things that used to be explicitly part of the family structure specifically.

00:16:06.640 And we have taken them out of their territory, out of their original territorialization.

00:16:12.280 We have de-territorialized them out of that family structure, out of that soil where they originally grew up in.

00:16:19.900 And we have taken them out of that and we have moved them into the marketplace.

00:16:24.300 Now, the marketplace is a powerful and wonderful thing, and it can do really important stuff, and we need it in many ways.

00:16:32.180 But it is not a universal solution, and that's unfortunately what we have treated the marketplace as, as something that can solve any problem.

00:16:39.680 You hear this, again, all the time from the right, all the time from conservatives.

00:16:43.020 The invisible hand, the powers of the marketplace, we even have moved it into our decision-making apparatus.

00:16:48.300 It's the marketplace of ideas, but what you might have noticed is that the marketplace of ideas is not working very well right now.

00:16:54.360 And that's because those decisions were not actually ever supposed to be subjected.

00:16:58.920 Many of those decisions were never supposed to be subjected to the marketplace.

00:17:03.280 Sorry, but what a male or female is should never have been put into the marketplace of ideas. 0.96

00:17:08.680 It should have been a settled truth, period.

00:17:10.620 And there's too many axioms, too many fundamental bedrock values that we have taken out of their place and put into the marketplace and put them up for discussion, debate, competition.

00:17:25.040 And this is also true, as much as it is for the definition of things like man and woman, for our family duties.

00:17:31.720 Many of the things that originally were located in the family were there for a reason, because they were duties that were too critical to be placed in the marketplace.

00:17:43.080 The marketplace can increase large amounts of efficiency.

00:17:46.340 It can create all kinds of profit.

00:17:48.160 It can scale things up in an amazing degree.

00:17:50.960 But many of these things should never be done for profit.

00:17:54.440 They never should be done at a high level of efficiency or a big scale.

00:18:00.760 They are things that are necessarily personal and critical to be done in a one-on-one manner.

00:18:07.680 You cannot break them out of their context in the family and sell them off in the marketplace without serious consequences.

00:18:14.900 But that's exactly what we've done.

00:18:16.880 We have de-territorialized these critical roles, these critical social values, these critical traditions, these critical understandings out of their context in the family.

00:18:27.600 And we have moved them into the market.

00:18:29.540 And again, many conservatives have been big fans of this.

00:18:36.320 They've said, oh, well, yeah, no, we need to go ahead and do this.

00:18:38.840 We have to focus on the individual and individual freedom.

00:18:41.400 And that's what's most important without recognizing that in the same what they're doing is setting things up for big government.

00:18:49.620 Because once you break these things out of the sacred bonds of the community and the family and you move them into the marketplace, inevitably, big government will consume them.

00:19:01.080 I'll explain that more in a second.

00:19:03.220 So what are some of the things?

00:19:04.620 Okay, I'm going on about all these things we've moved into the marketplace.

00:19:08.240 But what am I talking about specifically?

00:19:10.580 Well, let's just look at traditional male and female bonds inside a marriage, right?

00:19:16.640 So men obviously had several classic duties inside of a family.

00:19:24.260 Just a few of them, of course, were protection.

00:19:27.200 The male was the bigger and stronger member of the family.

00:19:31.620 So it was their responsibility, first and foremost, to secure the safety of the family.

00:19:37.400 Provision, material provision, was a big part of the male role in most societies. 0.80

00:19:44.160 Of course, you need to go ahead and do things like, you know, just basic maintenance on a lot of things, building things, repairing things.

00:19:51.980 Those were all often critical roles.

00:19:53.940 And again, these are not always just done by the man.

00:19:57.020 And we'll see that some of those things aren't, you know, the things that are traditionally female aren't always just done by the woman as well.

00:20:03.180 But these were the archetypes, right?

00:20:05.540 These are the basic understandings usually.

00:20:07.320 And finally, masculine guidance was a critical role that was provided by the father in many of these situations.

00:20:13.860 Again, a lot of this stuff has been outsourced.

00:20:18.020 And this is why the father is no longer required in so many families today.

00:20:23.860 We see that protection has been handed off entirely to the state.

00:20:29.560 There used to be a lot of play.

00:20:31.680 So you've always been picky about your produce.

00:20:33.860 But now you find yourself checking every label to make sure it's Canadian.

00:20:38.040 So be it.

00:20:39.320 At Sobeys, we always pick guaranteed fresh Canadian produce first.

00:20:43.380 Restrictions apply.

00:20:44.340 See in-store or online for details.

00:20:48.860 In when the state needs to step into protection.

00:20:52.280 If you watch old movies, right?

00:20:54.380 Just watch it.

00:20:54.920 Watch your little, not even that old.

00:20:56.840 20, 30 years, year old movies.

00:20:59.540 I'm not talking Casablanca here.

00:21:01.760 You watch those movies.

00:21:03.820 And the, you know, the teenagers get into trouble.

00:21:08.560 You know, there's a disagreement or something.

00:21:11.120 And the sheriff doesn't immediately have to put that kid in juvie forever.

00:21:15.680 They don't immediately have to get social services involved.

00:21:19.260 Because there was a certain amount of conflict, a certain amount of danger that was mediated by the father.

00:21:26.540 He was expected to protect the people around him.

00:21:29.840 He was expected to protect his family.

00:21:32.040 There was a, there were moments when the sheriff needed to step in.

00:21:35.800 There were moments when an agent of the state did need to step in.

00:21:39.780 But there was a lot of intermediate conflict resolution and things that could have been unsafe but were made safe by that kind of that mediating social fabric of the father, right?

00:21:53.660 And that meant that the state didn't have to crack down.

00:21:56.220 It didn't have to worry about safety of everyone at every moment.

00:21:59.160 And that also meant that the state didn't have authority to do that at every moment.

00:22:03.800 Many of these decisions were to be made by the father, were to be made by the family, were to be made by the extended family.

00:22:10.140 How do we resolve this issue?

00:22:11.780 Oh, that's a family problem, right?

00:22:13.680 Or that's between families.

00:22:15.440 It wasn't always left up to a guy with a gun and a badge.

00:22:18.620 And so that's one role that has been stripped away and given entirely to the state.

00:22:24.120 Again, provision, of course.

00:22:25.580 You, of course, you know, obviously we know that the welfare state has made single motherhood a reality in many ways because they remove the need for a man to provide. 0.78

00:22:37.840 And, of course, there's also a lot of issues with corporations and the expansion of labor there as well.

00:22:45.040 However, that government backstop was a big problem.

00:22:49.060 But that's also because we moved so much of the role of providing out of the hands of a working father.

00:22:56.980 That's why corporations felt like they could start paying people less.

00:23:01.440 It used to be that you had to pay a person not just a living wage for themselves but for their families.

00:23:08.080 It's, again, very strange.

00:23:09.380 I know that TV is not reality, guys, so please stay with me here.

00:23:12.280 I'm not just saying everything you see on TV is reality.

00:23:15.180 However, there had to be some level of believability in television.

00:23:18.940 And it used to be, again, you watch a television show from 20, 30 years ago.

00:23:23.420 A guy could be a manager at a convenience store or not a convenience store but at a, like a JCPenney's, you know, a department store.

00:23:33.340 That's what I was looking for or something like that.

00:23:35.620 They could just be, they didn't have to own the place.

00:23:37.600 They didn't even need to be the general manager.

00:23:39.120 They could just be, like, a manager at a shoe store or something.

00:23:42.500 And they could be reasonably depicted as having four kids and a four-bedroom house, something like that.

00:23:50.840 That was a very normal thing that you could watch and see on television and the wife could stay home. 0.99

00:23:55.940 And that was assumed to be a reasonable thing to suggest on TV.

00:24:01.060 Today, that's insane, right?

00:24:02.240 Just for people to try to afford having two children, they're often both parents are working.

00:24:07.740 That has shifted.

00:24:08.920 Now, there's a lot of other things.

00:24:10.760 And those also have a lot of questions in the market.

00:24:13.620 We obviously need new cars and cell phones and eating out all the time.

00:24:17.580 There are decisions that people are making which make it harder for them to own homes and have children.

00:24:22.540 I'm not just saying it's the economic system.

00:24:24.680 I'm not saying it's just, you know, all of these decisions.

00:24:28.240 There is personal responsibility as well.

00:24:30.700 I know there are people out there who are sacrificing to make sure their wife can stay home and that they can have multiple children.

00:24:36.120 They are choosing to have less materially so they can have more spiritually so that they can have more in a moral and meaningful sense.

00:24:44.740 So I'm not just trying to lay all of the blame at, you know, the feet of corporations or even, you know, the economics.

00:24:52.140 It's not what I'm saying.

00:24:52.980 But what I am saying is that it used to be something that you could depict reasonably on television and people would believe that.

00:25:01.300 But we have gotten rid of that role because it was assumed, well, you can just pay people as an individual.

00:25:07.100 You don't have to assume they have a family.

00:25:08.780 You don't have to assume that they're taking care of a wife.

00:25:10.900 You don't have to you don't have a moral duty to make sure that the person who's working for you can go ahead and raise their kids and make take care of their spouse on one salary.

00:25:21.400 And that's many of much of that is because we broke that that that responsibility out of the family as a unit and went ahead and started treating people as individuals inside of a marketplace.

00:25:34.720 Of course, the same goes for traditionally female roles when it comes to child care, education, you know, food preparation, all kinds of things that used to be filling the day of the average female in a family now is broken out into, you know, restaurants and into, you know, schools and everything else. 1.00

00:25:59.060 Again, none of this is new, right?

00:26:02.040 There were always outside educational opportunities.

00:26:07.180 There were schools that people sent their children to.

00:26:11.220 However, it was not what the average person did, right?

00:26:14.420 It was not the mass experience of moving that education or child care out of the home and into a bunch of daycares that are half sponsored by government or completely owned by the government.

00:26:25.920 But by moving those duties out of the home, by breaking them out of the family and transplanting them into the marketplace, we went ahead and created the expectation that the individual would should be able to provide this.

00:26:39.020 And if they shouldn't, who couldn't provide it, they should be able to purchase it in the marketplace.

00:26:43.260 And that's a big deal because once you've broken those critical duties out of the family structure, a couple things happen.

00:26:52.060 First, the market tries to go ahead and depersonalize these things and streamline them so it can create profitability and create efficiency.

00:27:03.020 That's what the market does. 0.56

00:27:05.020 It creates efficiencies.

00:27:06.560 And the way that it does that is by homogenizing, standardizing this kind of stuff.

00:27:12.220 The problem is that individuals don't work this way.

00:27:17.020 And kids need, obviously, their parents for just the basic spiritual ties that it makes.

00:27:23.540 The familiar ties are critical, and they're something that a daycare worker or a school teacher or a cafeteria worker cannot provide to your children.

00:27:34.120 But they also do more than that.

00:27:36.220 Children are specific and individual.

00:27:39.560 Mass education is a failure, and we can see that by the fact that no matter how much money we pour per pupil into our public education system, it only gets worse and worse.

00:27:50.680 And so children need very specific education.

00:27:54.340 They need very specific attention along with the love and guidance and care that a parent can provide.

00:28:02.640 And by putting that in the marketplace, by taking that out of the hands of the individual parent and putting into the hands of this mass system, you end up in a scenario where the average kid just becomes the lowest common denominator.

00:28:16.940 They homogenize the education down to the lowest possible level so they can provide it to everyone.

00:28:23.720 And they don't provide the individual education, the nuances that a parent who cares about their child would do.

00:28:32.100 And so the quality of education goes down, the quality of food served the kids goes down, and the quality of just everything about what happens to that child goes down.

00:28:43.600 Because all of those things that were part of a sacred obligation, sacred bond, a personal relationship and care are stripped out, right?

00:28:53.820 And this happens across everything.

00:28:56.240 Home maintenance, the ownership of property, all of that gets taken out of the craftsmanship of the husband or the father, and it gets put into these mass-produced products or sold out to other services.

00:29:11.520 And what happens when we need to fill that labor and we need to make it cheaper and cheaper?

00:29:15.440 Well, we start moving people into the country so that we can have, you know, we start getting a bunch of illegal immigrants doing lawn maintenance because, you know, the time of the father is too valuable if he's even in a family, if he even has a family anymore. 1.00

00:29:30.380 And so what happens is each one of these duties is broken out of the family, and it's sold off piece by piece to different services.

00:29:39.100 And in some ways, they are more efficient than a family.

00:29:42.460 In some ways, they are cheaper than a family.

00:29:44.520 In some ways, they can do these things better and more efficiently to some degree than each individual family doing it themselves.

00:29:53.340 That's true.

00:29:54.080 But the problem is that personal touch, that inefficiency that comes from knowing the needs of your family, from caring about the needs of your child, from looking across the street and seeing a family that's hurting and giving them aid, the things that you lose when you don't see each and every person who's involved in your daily life in a church together, in a community that binds you together.

00:30:21.160 Those things matter, those things matter, and they're intangible.

00:30:24.000 You can't put them on a spreadsheet.

00:30:25.780 You can't check your bank account and figure out where they are.

00:30:29.640 But as you start to lose them, you start to notice your society fall apart.

00:30:35.080 And that's a lot of what's happening right now.

00:30:37.080 A lot of people are noticing that we're moving from a high-trust society to a low-trust society.

00:30:42.260 And they don't know what happened.

00:30:44.060 They don't understand why that happened.

00:30:46.060 And it's because you can't put the things that make a high-trust society on your spreadsheet.

00:30:50.640 You can't go ahead and show up with a quarterly earnings report that demonstrates the high-trust in your society.

00:31:00.560 When you don't see people, when you don't know their names, when you don't bind yourself together with duty and responsibility, the trust in your society goes down.

00:31:10.420 Now, we had a very high-trust society.

00:31:12.640 And so for a while, we were able to scale up and go ahead and abstract so many of these duties into the marketplace and assume that that trust will just keep going.

00:31:25.940 We would just keep perpetuating it forever.

00:31:27.760 Of course, I can hand these transactions off to the marketplace because everybody knows this is how you behave.

00:31:32.760 Everybody will, of course, use the self-checkout in the right way.

00:31:37.620 Everybody will pump gas.

00:31:39.400 Everybody will get off the airplane in the same way, right?

00:31:43.000 These are things we assumed were just normal and everybody knew them and they would go on forever.

00:31:48.780 But that's not the case.

00:31:49.920 The ability to have that high level of social coordination came from community.

00:31:54.520 It came from a shared history, a shared tradition, a shared culture, a shared identity, a shared understanding that was bound together by that constant interaction with each other, by having the duties and responsibilities that we have to each other that are prescribed by our unified history, traditions, and moral vision, religion.

00:32:15.660 All of these things are critical.

00:32:16.880 And as we strip out each one of these things and we sell those duties off in the marketplace, we start to grow government.

00:32:24.440 Well, how does that grow government?

00:32:25.680 Okay, here's what happens.

00:32:27.320 When we move those duties into the marketplace, eventually we recognize the failures.

00:32:33.780 Once we are no longer a community that is responsible to each other, once we no longer bear those burdens and failures as a community, individuals start to fail.

00:32:46.980 Now, when individuals fail in a community, we recognize, oh, that's Cindy. 1.00

00:32:51.880 That's Bob's sister.

00:32:53.560 Oh, that's Tom's kid.

00:32:55.620 Are we really going to leave Tom's kid out on the street?

00:32:58.180 Are we really going to ignore what Cindy is doing over there? 0.96

00:33:01.560 Are we really going to leave her without a job or a way to feed her children? 1.00

00:33:07.180 Are we really not going to care about these people?

00:33:09.520 We have to see their family every day.

00:33:13.240 And in those cases, you change the way that you address people because of this, right?

00:33:18.420 You go ahead and change the way that you act towards people.

00:33:21.860 But if the marketplace, if the individual is supposed to handle everything as a responsible individual in a marketplace, you say, oh, well, they can just, you know, they should have had insurance.

00:33:32.320 Oh, well, they should have gone out and bought.

00:33:34.900 They should have paid somebody to do that for them.

00:33:36.620 Oh, they should go.

00:33:37.580 They should work harder.

00:33:38.360 Get another job.

00:33:39.260 Stop going, you know, stop going to dinner so often.

00:33:42.140 Again, these are all individual behaviors.

00:33:44.580 Many times you do need to correct your individual behavior.

00:33:47.280 In fact, a lot of times your failures are your own.

00:33:50.000 I'm not saying that they aren't.

00:33:51.340 But I'm saying that in a community, we understood the need to take the time.

00:33:55.960 We allowed for friction.

00:33:58.060 We didn't need everything to be hyper-efficient.

00:34:00.720 We understood that sometimes you have to slow down and look at the actual person across from you and understand that they are part of a network, a family, a community, and not just an individual who's failing alone.

00:34:14.540 And what happens is as those duties are moved into the marketplace and those failures start occurring, once we realize that in the marketplace, people will lose and they will end up with nothing because there's not that community to stand behind them.

00:34:28.480 There's not that safety net of family.

00:34:31.200 There's not that safety net of organizations, churches, things like that, that will pick you up when you fall down.

00:34:38.700 Once we realize that it's gone, we start to hand those responsibilities over to the government because the truth is, and again, a lot of libertarians won't like this because the libertarian vision so often seems to be just let people drown.

00:34:52.140 People won't do that.

00:34:53.620 But collectively, people cannot all be hyper-responsible individuals, and because they can't all be hyper-responsible individuals, a lot of people are going to fail.

00:35:03.880 And you're not just going to stand around and watch people fail.

00:35:06.300 I'm sorry.

00:35:06.720 You're just not.

00:35:07.740 That doesn't actually work.

00:35:09.660 And so what happens is eventually the government starts to step in.

00:35:13.640 You say, oh, we don't want this responsibility.

00:35:15.320 We'll put it in the marketplace.

00:35:16.120 And then when the marketplace fails people, the government says, oh, marketplace failed.

00:35:20.700 We've got to step in.

00:35:22.040 Now, again, for the hyper-liberal, for the libertarian, they say, well, the market never fails.

00:35:25.980 Any failure of the market is just a failure of the government.

00:35:29.300 It's always government intervention.

00:35:30.960 It's always the government.

00:35:32.360 That's the problem.

00:35:33.120 It's never the market.

00:35:34.540 But I'm sorry.

00:35:35.160 That's just not true.

00:35:36.860 That's just a religion, and it's a false religion. 0.99

00:35:39.940 It's a lie.

00:35:41.060 The marketplace does fail people because the marketplace doesn't care about people.

00:35:46.120 It doesn't.

00:35:47.340 It develops its own incentive structure.

00:35:52.420 And those incentive structures eventually deroot themselves.

00:35:56.000 They deracinate themselves from the communities they're supposed to serve.

00:35:59.900 And they eventually do deterritorialize all of these things.

00:36:03.320 And they eventually do re-territorialize them into the marketplace in a place where they are not taken care of correctly.

00:36:10.320 And because of this, the government steps in.

00:36:12.900 Because people always look for a solution when the marketplace fails.

00:36:17.760 And whenever the marketplace fails, the solution is government.

00:36:21.260 And when the government gets to take on the responsibility that has been stripped out of the family and put into the marketplace,

00:36:27.520 and then taken from the marketplace and moved into the government, their power always expands.

00:36:32.860 Because, again, as DeJuvenal said, the only thing that stops the expansion of government, it's not Bill of Rights, it's not Constitutions,

00:36:42.300 it's not your rights as an American, none of that stops the growth of government.

00:36:48.380 What stops the growth of government, what actually prevents government from growing, is other spheres of social responsibility.

00:36:57.380 Competing spheres of authority and control.

00:37:00.540 We are all dependent.

00:37:02.440 And if we are not dependent on our families, if we're not dependent on our communities, we will be dependent on the government.

00:37:08.500 We will.

00:37:08.920 And so if the responsibilities and duties are stripped out of the family and sold in the marketplace, eventually the marketplace will fail.

00:37:18.580 And the things that were once part of the family will become part of the government.

00:37:22.640 And this is how government grows.

00:37:25.300 This is why government is always expanding.

00:37:28.740 Because it is taking on the duties that once sat inside the community.

00:37:33.760 And it's not enough to just tell people, be more virtuous.

00:37:36.380 That's true, you need to be more virtuous.

00:37:39.180 But if you set up a system where this is constantly going on, where you're making it harder and harder for people to have communities,

00:37:47.620 you're making it more and more difficult for people to start families, have children, bind themselves into these networks and associations.

00:37:54.360 If you're actively undermining those incentives at every turn, which we are in many ways today,

00:38:01.220 then you will end up in a society that is less virtuous.

00:38:04.280 And again, that is not a free pass for the individual.

00:38:09.840 That is not a free pass for us as a people.

00:38:12.500 That's not a free pass for our moral actions or decisions.

00:38:15.080 As an individual, you still have to make the decision,

00:38:17.960 I am going to be virtuous.

00:38:20.040 I am going to take care of people.

00:38:21.600 I am going to put this on myself.

00:38:23.740 There's just no escaping that, okay?

00:38:25.580 However, if you end up in this situation where you are constantly attacking people's ability to do that, you will see less of it.

00:38:34.580 The government will become the backstop for all of these failed marketplace interactions.

00:38:39.840 And we see this every time, right?

00:38:41.240 Every time the economy fails, a housing market fails, we have a public health failure or whatever, the government grows in power.

00:38:48.640 In every situation, the government gets to grab more and more power because the things that were once done by the community,

00:38:55.520 the things that were once done by the family, the things that were once done by other social spheres are now done by the government.

00:39:05.700 And this is why once these barriers are gone, we have a hard time even imagining putting them back into place.

00:39:12.040 So, for instance, today, conservatives talk a lot about parental rights, right?

00:39:15.700 Because we see what's happening with the government.

00:39:17.980 They're trying to indoctrinate kids with a lot of this transgender ideology, these kind of things. 0.94

00:39:25.180 And so we talk a lot about parents' rights.

00:39:27.700 However, when, for instance, another state, let's say, you know, another liberal state decides that they want kids to, you know,

00:39:35.760 parents to be able to transition their kids at eight, all of a sudden we're like, no, you can't do that, right?

00:39:40.800 Now, in other societies, and, you know, it's horrific, but in other societies, there wouldn't have been legal prohibitions in many cases against parents doing what they wanted with their children.

00:39:53.080 The father was the head of the household or the father and mother together were the heads of the household.

00:39:58.760 Never a situation where the community always had the ability to put input on every one of their decisions, right?

00:40:05.280 And the reason, again, was that the state did not get to do that.

00:40:09.000 Now, what would happen is that the community, sorry, I said community there when I should have said state, the state did not have the ability to reach into every one of those situations.

00:40:18.600 Now, what happened is that a lot of times the community would put the pressure on them.

00:40:22.220 So if you wanted to be able to go to church, if you wanted to be able to do business with a lot of people there, you had to treat your kids a certain way.

00:40:28.580 And even if the state wasn't going to step in to, you know, to criticize or take control of the way that you raised your children, if you wanted to function inside the society, you needed to go ahead and behave a certain way.

00:40:42.220 Your kids need to behave a certain way. You had to raise them with certain values and you had to treat them a certain way.

00:40:47.860 And if you didn't, then people at church are going to look at you weird and people in the market are going to look at you weird and they're not going to want to talk to you and they're not going to be with your friend.

00:40:56.080 They're not going to do business with you and they're not going to invite you to be their partner in the next venture.

00:41:01.160 Like those are all things that would impact you. And the state didn't have to get involved in every one of these steps because while the decision was ultimately yours, you still had the control that was your social sphere.

00:41:13.600 You were influenced by everyone else that you were dependent on.

00:41:16.540 And so you didn't need the state to step in at every opportunity because just like we talked about with kind of the father and that kind of those blurry borders that where the places where you needed protection, but you didn't need a guy with a gun and a badge.

00:41:31.400 You know, the same thing here with the parents. Yeah, you had technically the ability to treat your child how you wanted, but you better get at least this much right or the community is going to shun you.

00:41:43.160 They're not going to want to be around you. You're going to be held responsible for those actions.

00:41:48.140 And it meant that the state didn't have to step in. But now we've gotten rid of all of that.

00:41:52.100 We can't even imagine parents being ultimately in charge of their children and their well-being.

00:41:57.380 And so we say, you know, the conservative will say, oh, well, no, the state should step in.

00:42:01.200 And I get it. Like there's a lot of horrific stuff that people are trying to do to their kids right now.

00:42:05.680 So I totally understand why people want to go ahead and step in there.

00:42:09.140 But we can't even get ourselves, even as people who say we're worried about big government, we can't even bring ourselves to a place where we could imagine parents actually being in control of their kids again.

00:42:20.020 And that's because we've dissolved this responsibility both ways.

00:42:23.720 Liberals and conservatives can't imagine a scenario where they actually let their neighbor raise their own kids.

00:42:29.500 They think that the state would need to be involved in either direction.

00:42:33.220 And a lot of that, you know, is because of the loss of virtue.

00:42:37.280 You can't trust your neighbor not to, you know, go ahead and sterilize their kid at eight years old at this point.

00:42:43.280 That's terrifying that that that is kind of where you're at when you're at a in a very degenerate society that's lost its virtue.

00:42:50.340 So I totally again, I'm not I'm not out.

00:42:52.580 I'm not here decrying people who are trying to protect children at all.

00:42:56.560 What I'm saying is we've lost our ability to trust each other and to trust those alternative spheres of authority.

00:43:03.120 And everybody wants the state.

00:43:05.460 Everybody wants the total state.

00:43:06.860 Everybody wants the state to solve these problems because we simply cannot trust our neighbors at this point to to to resolve those issues for themselves.

00:43:14.120 And so the battle come comes for the Leviathan of the state rather than for figuring out how to solve our problems as communities, as families.

00:43:24.200 And that's a horrible problem.

00:43:26.560 But that's mainly what I wanted to say about that, guys.

00:43:29.380 I just wanted to explain how that transfers over, how all of those duties and responsibilities that used to be part of the family and community have been broken out individually and sold in the marketplace.

00:43:42.000 And when the marketplace failed each one of those responsibilities, they eventually became the province of the government.

00:43:48.260 That's why it feels like having control of the government is so important because it really does control everything at this point.

00:43:56.120 We've broken out so many of those responsibilities.

00:43:58.940 We've lost so much virtue.

00:44:00.000 We've lost so much understanding what it is to, you know, to have duty and dependence.

00:44:06.100 We've broken out so many of those relationships that we can't imagine a scenario where the state basically isn't in control of everything and the market isn't mediating all this stuff.

00:44:15.080 And that's something that we're going to have to tackle.

00:44:17.900 Because if we don't, if we don't understand how to rebind those things back into communities, then things are only going to get worse.

00:44:25.720 It's only going to continue in this, down this path.

00:44:28.940 Because the problem is that we have scaled these things too far and we've removed too much responsibility and we have moved too much of it into spheres where it was never supposed to go.

00:44:40.040 And it's kind of brought us to the place where we are now.

00:44:44.000 All right, guys, I'm going to go ahead and move over to one other thing that I wanted to discuss.

00:44:51.780 Oh, nope, we do have, okay, we have a lot of questions of the people.

00:44:55.420 So I'm going to move over to the questions of people because there's a lot and I want to be able to get to everybody.

00:44:59.780 All right, so let me see here.

00:45:03.740 Cooper Weirdo says, this is interesting, Oren, but you missed something.

00:45:06.800 See, there's a line and this line, it needs to go up.

00:45:09.920 Yeah, that really is the religion of many people, right?

00:45:13.240 The line must go up and we have to go ahead and sacrifice any and everything to make sure that the line goes up.

00:45:18.900 It doesn't matter whether it's the family, the community, our nations, our borders, the line has to go up.

00:45:27.740 And conservatives have, again, just been as complicit as the left with much of this.

00:45:33.440 And I think that's another reason that Donald Trump, for as many faults, got as much support as he did.

00:45:38.700 A lot of people were tired of losing their jobs and they were tired of being told it was okay to lose their jobs.

00:45:43.140 They were tired of a right wing, a Republican, a conservative position that said, oh yeah, it's fine.

00:45:49.380 You learned to code, buddy.

00:45:51.140 Just go figure out how to code or move across the country.

00:45:54.100 Just rip up your family and your roots and move somewhere else. 0.99

00:45:56.400 People got tired of that.

00:45:57.480 They wanted to hear somebody who said, I'm going to stand there and defend your jobs.

00:46:00.800 You can go ahead and say, well, Donald Trump didn't do that or wasn't effective enough at it.

00:46:04.480 Fair enough.

00:46:04.980 However, just someone who's finally willing to address that, I think, spoke to a lot of people.

00:46:11.640 Kruger Ritter says, you could have had a Corvette Oren, so there.

00:46:16.040 Yeah.

00:46:17.260 Why do you need a functioning society when you can have a Corvette?

00:46:20.900 I do like Corvettes.

00:46:22.020 I'm a big fan of the original Stingray.

00:46:24.060 I mean, the new Stingrays are fine, but the late 60s or, yeah, the late 60s Stingrays are particularly beautiful cars.

00:46:32.800 But they are not worth your society.

00:46:35.560 Let's see here.

00:46:37.100 Seneca says, this opening monologue is just Luke 16, 13.

00:46:40.640 No servant can serve two masters.

00:46:42.360 He will hate one and love the other.

00:46:43.840 You cannot serve God and mammon.

00:46:46.100 Yeah, I'll be very clear.

00:46:49.000 You know, truth is found in the Bible.

00:46:51.260 And so you will find me often, hopefully, if I'm doing things right, if I am properly aligned, I will be aligned with the wisdom of the Bible.

00:47:00.340 And you can always accuse me of just ripping off the Bible.

00:47:03.320 So I will always cop to that charge.

00:47:06.300 Hopefully that's what I'm doing all of the time.

00:47:08.080 Let's see.

00:47:12.380 Perspicacious Heretic says, was it the family unit that ultimately kept capitalism at its optimum?

00:47:17.300 That's a great question and one that we have to think about, right?

00:47:20.060 So I'm sure many of you are familiar with distributism, if for no other reason than my buddy and one of our well-loved creators in the sphere, Dave the Distributist, has him as that name.

00:47:31.220 As the G.K. Chesterton, you know, is one of the key guys in distributism.

00:47:36.840 And distributism's main thing is treating the family as the core economic unit instead of the individual.

00:47:45.140 Now, I don't know if every part of distributism actually works in the real world.

00:47:49.940 I don't know if there's a if there's a mixed economy system that works with a more distributist outlook and capitalism.

00:47:58.300 It is a very difficult question as to whether the efficiency of capital can be properly harnessed and territorialized.

00:48:07.640 I talked about this a lot in the accelerationism and and kind of the capital escape episodes I've done with Nick Land's theory.

00:48:17.980 If you want to I don't want to rehash all of that now, but if you want to go back and watch those, you can kind of watch as I ponder this.

00:48:26.200 This is something I'm still thinking a lot about.

00:48:28.500 I'm excuse me.

00:48:29.740 At the end of the day, I'm not an economist.

00:48:31.700 So I bet that's not my appeal to authority there.

00:48:35.700 You can you can be right and not be an economist.

00:48:37.960 In fact, that's often being an economist is often a barrier to being correct.

00:48:42.000 But I'm just saying all of my economic theory is not ducks in a row.

00:48:45.860 So I can't really learn all that off to you right now.

00:48:49.520 But I will say that this is a question that I ponder a lot.

00:48:52.660 And it's something that we need to solve, because if we don't, we're going to continue to face the problems that we have now.

00:49:00.100 Seneca says no servant can serve two masters.

00:49:02.340 He will either serve his family or serve government.

00:49:06.040 You cannot serve both God and government.

00:49:08.580 Yep, absolutely, man. 1.00

00:49:12.360 The stupid demon says the marketplace of ideas does not select for truth. 1.00

00:49:15.560 It selects for power. 1.00

00:49:16.680 The two overlap a lot.

00:49:18.160 But where they don't is where you get in trouble.

00:49:20.820 And that's exactly right.

00:49:21.880 Yeah.

00:49:22.240 The marketplace of ideas does not actually select for truth.

00:49:25.140 And all we have to do is look at, you know, many of the ways that the marketplace has been manipulated in almost always through power.

00:49:34.240 And so there is no perfectly free market.

00:49:37.620 There is no perfectly free marketplace of ideas.

00:49:39.960 They will always be heavily influenced by power.

00:49:42.460 And that's most certainly where a lot of people are going when they're putting their decision making power in that arena.

00:49:49.880 A creepy word says the corpos want you to have a family.

00:49:54.060 It's collectivism.

00:49:55.040 They want you to stop from cooming and consuming.

00:49:57.660 I know what freedom is.

00:49:59.440 Yeah.

00:49:59.640 Many a classical liberal or libertarian will tell us these things.

00:50:07.540 But, yeah, that, of course, is the cry of many a man who does not want to make a commitment to others.

00:50:14.400 Let's see here.

00:50:15.760 Florida Henry says, 70s kid here.

00:50:17.660 It really does seem obvious to me that Reaganomics caused this.

00:50:20.820 And Republicans absolutely kowtow to corporations.

00:50:24.240 Yeah, there's really no way around the fact that for a very long time, Republicans were corporate cheerleaders and they bowed to corporations in pretty much every instance.

00:50:37.460 In many ways, that's understandable if you see them as allies against the left, which they seem like for a while.

00:50:44.720 However, I think the thought of Sam Francis is very valuable and Leviathan is enemies.

00:50:49.780 He explains why this was really a temporary animosity between establishment and corporations and the radical left and why those things have kind of now aligned, why we see woke capital today and what was happening there.

00:51:05.140 But at the time, of course, a lot of people didn't know that.

00:51:07.660 And it made, again, because communism was a very real threat.

00:51:11.660 We have to remember this.

00:51:12.560 It's easy for us to look back and say, oh, how could people in the past have made this mistake when we don't put ourselves into where they were?

00:51:20.560 Communism was a real threat in the 70s.

00:51:23.260 There really was a scare.

00:51:25.760 Now, maybe it was overblown in some ways, but there was a real geopolitical foe and it really could have wiped out humanity in theory.

00:51:35.980 And so you have to understand that the corporation and capitalism kind of as a tool against communism makes perfect sense at that time.

00:51:45.340 And so just when you're when we're judging all of these things, understand that sometimes, you know, you do need to put yourself in the context, the historical context of what was happening.

00:51:55.900 But the results of that are devastating.

00:51:58.780 They are what you said.

00:52:00.060 And so I think that while that maybe was a alliance that was made at the time for an understandable reason, it's something that has certainly outlived its usefulness.

00:52:11.320 And you can see this because corporations have turned on conservatives quite quickly.

00:52:15.360 And luckily, a lot of conservatives are learning that lesson, but they learned it after the corporations already turned on them, which which kind of is a problem.

00:52:24.240 So Cooper Weirder says, sounds like socialism.

00:52:27.360 Socialism is when capitalism is criticized.

00:52:29.680 No one on the right has criticized capitalism ever.

00:52:31.860 Yes, that is sadly very often the case.

00:52:34.320 The minute you say maybe there are excesses, maybe there are problems.

00:52:39.360 And, you know, that we need to remember that as we kind of operate our economic system.

00:52:46.380 All of a sudden people start screaming socialists.

00:52:48.480 But what are you going to do?

00:52:49.560 At some point we have to break out of that very simple mindset.

00:52:54.240 Tiny Stupid Demon says in Elaine, I'm sorry, I don't know exactly how to say that.

00:52:59.120 I've seen the name before, but I'm just not familiar with the proper pronunciation. 0.87

00:53:03.460 Elaine de Bois.

00:53:04.640 Sorry, I do not speak French, just in case you were curious.

00:53:08.920 Book on Carl Schmitt.

00:53:10.440 He points out that not only did you get de-territorization, you got de-temporalization, i.e. everyone is trapped in an eternal year zero.

00:53:18.940 Yeah, he, I don't know, I'm not familiar with his work, again, though I have heard an increasing amount about him.

00:53:26.480 But other people, even communists like Mark Fisher noted this.

00:53:31.060 So this is something that a lot of people have noticed, and I think that's exactly right.

00:53:37.820 Death says, but LGBT and women's right activist James Lindsay said it's a blessing. 0.84

00:53:42.740 Yes, I have no doubt that he did, the atheist secularist champion of the right, I guess.

00:53:51.000 It's amazing how we never learn our lessons, do we, guys?

00:53:53.360 It's just, the neocon cycle is always there for us.

00:53:57.040 Dark, Glow in the Dark says, half the time when the marketplace fails, it's some war on poverty or some great society planning.

00:54:03.100 Power wants to expand, but showing restraint is truly powerful.

00:54:06.380 Yeah, again, a lot of people will correctly point out that the government's involvement will create a failure in the marketplace.

00:54:13.600 That's very true.

00:54:15.420 The problem is, and I've had, I did it, I'm just going to reference all of my old episodes here.

00:54:20.380 But I did an episode with Academic Agent.

00:54:22.520 He came out and we talked about kind of the problem with the idea of the free market in the first place.

00:54:28.880 If you want to, I don't want to break down all of that yet again.

00:54:31.620 But if you want to go back and listen to that episode, we go into it in detail for over an hour, and I think there's a lot of truth to that.

00:54:39.060 However, there is, of course, to your point, there is often a heavy intervention from the government to choose winners and losers in the marketplace, and that is most often when you see failure.

00:54:52.120 All right, guys, we're going to go ahead and wrap it up here.

00:54:55.160 Thank you so much for coming by.

00:54:57.000 Thank you for all of your questions.

00:54:58.220 Lots of questions to get today.

00:54:59.960 Always great.

00:55:00.520 That's one of the things I love about the live streams.

00:55:02.740 Get to go ahead and interact with you guys, see what's going on, have you pick my brain, and I get to pick yours.

00:55:09.800 And that definitely makes for, I think, a better show.

00:55:13.800 All right, if it's your first time on the YouTube channel, make sure that you go ahead and subscribe.

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00:55:31.720 When you do, leave a rating or review.

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00:55:36.260 If you'd like to pre-order my upcoming book, The Total State, where I talk about this in even more detail, you can go ahead and go to Amazon.

00:55:44.100 Just click there and pre-order the book.

00:55:46.100 It'll be out on May 7th.

00:55:47.780 Thank you once again, everybody, for watching.

00:55:49.580 And as always, I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - March 29, 2024

Selling Off the Family ｜ 3⧸29⧸24

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