The Auron MacIntyre Show - The Aftermath of the Charlie Kirk Assassination ｜ Guest： Johnathan Keeperman ｜ 9⧸12⧸25

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00:00:30.660 Hey, everybody.

00:00:31.100 How's it going?

00:00:31.720 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.340 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.300 Before we get started today,

00:00:38.380 I just want to remind you that the way we keep the lights on around here is,

00:00:41.420 of course, subscriptions at Blaze TV.

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00:00:55.400 All right, guys.

00:00:56.160 So obviously, we are all still reeling from the loss of Charlie Kirk.

00:01:01.360 A lot of very deep reactions to what is going on.

00:01:06.340 We did the stream live Wednesday.

00:01:09.020 Seamus and I came on, didn't even know, obviously, that this was going to happen.

00:01:12.180 It got the news right before, and we were still not sure if Charlie would have been killed

00:01:18.340 or if he was going to pull through.

00:01:19.880 We were just looking for information.

00:01:22.760 Today, we know more.

00:01:24.380 Thankfully, the FBI now has the shooter in custody.

00:01:28.120 We'll go over his identity, his motives.

00:01:30.700 We'll talk about, obviously, the reaction, the justice that should come swift and severe

00:01:36.240 from the Trump administration and what that should look like.

00:01:38.800 But more importantly, I think we're also going to be talking about Charlie Kirk's legacy.

00:01:43.300 Jonathan Kieberman wrote a great essay, I think, on Twitter yesterday about the ways in which

00:01:50.020 we could build around this, because Charlie is somebody who obviously had a vision for

00:01:56.140 the future of the United States, someone who deeply was a patriot and loved this country.

00:02:01.180 And I think the best way to honor him is obviously not simply to bring that justice that's critical,

00:02:05.520 but also to build a future around the things that he believed in.

00:02:09.580 So, Jonathan, thank you so much for coming on.

00:02:11.220 Hey, Warren, thanks for having me on.

00:02:15.140 Absolutely.

00:02:15.720 We'll dive deeper into this in just a moment.

00:02:18.240 Like I said, we'll start with the details of the now arrested alleged assassin.

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00:03:41.860 All right, guys.

00:03:42.880 So the first thing we need to focus on is the details, obviously, of the now apprehended

00:03:47.900 alleged assassin.

00:03:49.680 We now know that this is a guy named Tyler Robinson.

00:03:53.680 He is somebody who apparently, from what we've seen, was radicalized by left-wing ideology.

00:04:02.680 This is something that most of us thought was pretty obvious early on from all of the

00:04:07.080 events.

00:04:07.580 The left, of course, said, no, how could you jump to these conclusions?

00:04:10.280 But it seems that those conclusions were 100% justified.

00:04:15.600 The son was actually turned in by his father.

00:04:18.580 Law enforcement did not track him down in this case.

00:04:20.600 His father recognized that this is what his son had done and turned him into law enforcement.

00:04:27.160 This is a guy who had carved a number of anti-fascist messages into the shells that he used to fire

00:04:34.920 at Charlie Kirk.

00:04:36.420 One of them had said, catch this fascist.

00:04:39.320 Another one had an Italian phrase that was sung when fascists were hung upside down in the

00:04:45.260 country, so it's very clear this guy was wearing t-shirts about the DSA, Democratic Socialists of

00:04:53.340 America.

00:04:54.540 So this guy is a radical leftist.

00:04:56.360 He is motivated very clearly by Antifa ideology.

00:05:00.680 And this is the most important thing, I think, of what we learned about today, is that he was

00:05:07.180 radicalized online very clearly.

00:05:08.900 He went to college.

00:05:09.620 He seems to have had a conservative family.

00:05:12.520 We're not 100% sure, but from the details that are coming in, it seems like he was radicalized

00:05:17.060 not by his family.

00:05:17.980 This is one part, but he was radicalized online or through college.

00:05:21.800 And he was on a Discord server.

00:05:24.080 The authorities have found messages in the Discord server talking about a rifle drop.

00:05:29.140 So it looks like this man was planning the assassination with others.

00:05:33.820 It's not just him.

00:05:34.680 He was part of a wider terrorist cell, that this assassination was not a spur-of-the-moment 0.87

00:05:39.640 thing, not just some crazy person.

00:05:41.620 This was a very specific, politically motivated assassination that was coordinated by a terrorist

00:05:47.660 group through Discord.

00:05:49.640 And again, these are all things I assume from the very beginning I've been pushing the need

00:05:54.900 to hit these groups immediately.

00:05:56.920 But Jonathan, your first reaction, first, did you know Charlie?

00:06:01.580 And also, what is your reaction to now the revelations about his assassin?

00:06:07.100 Yeah, let's start there.

00:06:08.220 I mean, I did know Charlie.

00:06:11.500 It would be wrong to say that he was a friend, but we certainly had online correspondence that

00:06:17.020 has gone back at least a year or more.

00:06:20.660 I was close with his production team.

00:06:23.500 I went on his show several times.

00:06:25.560 I got to visit him in person at a studio in Arizona.

00:06:28.640 My son, my eldest son, was brought along and met Charlie.

00:06:32.620 And Charlie was incredibly gracious with his time.

00:06:35.440 And he walked us around the studio and signed a book for my son.

00:06:39.480 And it's really hard to sort of segregate this personal response.

00:06:46.680 And I think like so many people are experiencing this personal emotional response.

00:06:50.580 Even people who didn't know him, there was something about the guy that was magnetic, that people

00:06:56.540 were drawn to, that people felt like he was someone they could be close to, or he reminded

00:07:04.520 them of people they were close to.

00:07:07.200 And so this really has been a very kind of intimate, collective mourning, I think, that a lot of us

00:07:14.340 are going through here, you know, on the other side of that.

00:07:19.860 And I've been having my own, you know, difficulties doing this.

00:07:22.740 And I have to be honest, when you invited me on yesterday to talk about this, I almost said no,

00:07:27.740 because it is difficult to have a sort of sober conversation about any of these related topics.

00:07:34.440 And it very well could be that I say something here in the heat of the moment that, you know,

00:07:38.660 I might regret, though, I'm going to try to refrain myself.

00:07:42.300 Nonetheless, you know, we have to be able to segregate some of these feelings, we have

00:07:47.000 to take this energy, this feeling of anger, and it's real anger, and sadness, obviously,

00:07:55.200 and channel it into something positive, channel it into something concrete, channel it into,

00:08:00.960 you know, justice, and doing what we can to undo the real kind of evil, and a sort of gleeful

00:08:11.220 evil that we see sort of ever present on on the left, there has to be something done about this.

00:08:20.880 And if this becomes the occasion, the catalyst, the sort of warrant for us to do something about it,

00:08:27.380 then we need to, and we ought not to shrink from it, because we're also feeling this interpersonal

00:08:33.360 response to this terrible tragedy.

00:08:38.040 Having found out about the killer this morning, I was not surprised this was in line with what I

00:08:47.060 thought was most likely. However, I must admit, I must say in the sort of spirit of being honest about

00:08:53.820 all of this, that I was holding out some possibility that it might not be that it could have been some

00:09:00.640 deranged person, maybe who hated him for reasons that stem from, you know, his right, or that had to

00:09:09.760 do strictly with some other pet issue, or just a kind of unfocused schizophrenia, the kind of like

00:09:18.760 brain broken, psychogenic illness that is, that is everywhere around us. And that would not change

00:09:28.180 how we're talking about this, because to me, even more important than the killer, though, I do want

00:09:34.220 to focus on that, and we should be focused on that. It's the response, there is a larger political

00:09:40.940 response here, that we need to be paying attention to, so that we can have a clear understanding

00:09:47.140 about what we are up against, and what needs to be defeated, so that we can live in a sane and normal

00:09:54.900 world. I want to live in a sane and normal world. We cannot live in a sane and normal world, where it is

00:10:04.460 perfectly okay and tolerated for people who disagreed with Charlie about this or that partisan political

00:10:13.380 topic to be celebrating or excusing his death. That is the problem that we face. And that is the problem

00:10:21.800 that we need to eradicate. So there are a lot of different layers to this. And there are different

00:10:28.680 things that we need to be focused on, I think. And there's going to be a whole sort of constellation

00:10:34.500 of approaches that hopefully, over time, pull us out of this deranged political moment.

00:10:43.420 No, I couldn't agree more. And I want to drill down on a few of those topics. The first one being,

00:10:49.780 as you say, the response. We, I think a lot of conservatives are waking up today to recognize

00:10:57.080 that these people don't just want to kill Donald Trump. They want to kill you. Like, they are 0.99

00:11:05.000 celebrating the death of a man who was no flamethrower. Charlie Kirk was bold, and Charlie

00:11:11.740 Kirk was confrontational. But Charlie Kirk was not radical. He held the positions of Rush Limbaugh. He

00:11:17.360 held the positions of Glenn Beck. He held the positions of the talk radio right, at least until about a year

00:11:24.160 ago. Those things have shifted. I don't want to, I'm not trying to say any of that to insult him.

00:11:28.800 But what I'm saying is, this is a guy who was, he was a mainstream conservative. He's, this isn't a

00:11:34.780 neo-Nazi. This isn't some white supremacist. This is just a guy who believes what your grandfather

00:11:41.160 believes. And the fact that so many people immediately rushed online to dance with glee on

00:11:48.960 the man's grave. They were selling merch with pictures of this man being murdered live in front

00:11:55.720 of his children. The fact that that was very common, to the point where we had several internet

00:12:03.160 accounts going around and just posting the thousands and thousands and thousands of people

00:12:08.720 in the military, in the Secret Service, in schools, in, you know, everywhere that were celebrating

00:12:15.660 the death of Charlie Kirk is very dangerous. Like, this is the kind of thing that I think rips

00:12:21.240 people apart very quickly. Increasingly, you're finding that the Civil War is not between North

00:12:26.780 and South. The Civil War is across the kitchen table. And that is, I think, a terrifying thing for

00:12:31.920 many people to realize. This is, of course, true of the shooter himself, who it seems came from a

00:12:37.180 conservative family who, you know, otherwise would probably have not been indoctrinated this way.

00:12:42.700 But there is a basically a portal, a demonic portal sitting in his pocket that was telling 0.76

00:12:47.860 him that he needed to hate the people around him, that he needed to kill the kind of people around 0.96

00:12:53.380 him. And that is now something that is a common feature of the left in the United States. And 0.99

00:13:00.200 the fact that this is such a common belief among leftists is terrifying. Charlie Kirk himself,

00:13:08.020 in some of his last few posts on his Twitter account, was talking about the danger of assassination

00:13:15.660 by the radical left. He pointed to statistics saying that almost 50 percent of Democrats thought

00:13:21.600 that there was some circumstance in which it was OK to assassinate Elon Musk. He was talking about

00:13:27.080 the need. This is Charlie Kirk's words, not ours. The need to politicize the death of that poor

00:13:34.360 Ukrainian woman who was killed in North Carolina, because if we don't, more people will die. And so

00:13:40.660 Charlie Kirk saw this with a clarity that many in the conservative movement did not. And his last words

00:13:46.940 to warrant were to warn of exactly this kind of radicalization. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm seeing red just

00:13:54.900 thinking about thinking about this because, Oren, you know, it could be you. It could be me.

00:14:03.040 Yeah. OK. They don't draw any distinction here. And by the way, Charlie was a nicer person than I am.

00:14:10.700 OK. A kinder, gentler. And I would even say a better person than I am.

00:14:16.500 Yeah. And the distance between his beliefs and mine, you know, on any given issue might be a little

00:14:23.740 bit here, a little bit there. And it really doesn't matter because in the eyes of the people

00:14:28.620 celebrating this, we are all unworthy of our lives. OK. We have to face that perception head on.

00:14:41.380 And I really want to try as best as I can to be like responsible about a response to this because I don't

00:14:52.700 want there to be more violence. I don't want there to be escalating violence. That would be terrible.

00:15:00.820 It's bad morally. It's bad politically. I don't want it. We should not want it. So, OK, who is the they

00:15:09.720 we're talking about? Is it every person who's a Democrat and voted for Democrat? Is it every

00:15:15.740 liberal? No. OK. I'm going to do the cliche thing here. I'm going to just say that. It's not. OK.

00:15:21.220 That's fine. I have liberal family members who would never dare to even think about something like

00:15:28.260 this and never would celebrate it. And I think that's actually like a very commonly held position

00:15:33.740 among liberals. However, those are not the people making decisions in the Democratic Party. Those

00:15:41.920 are not the people who are fomenting what is a very real ideology that suggests that speech is hate

00:15:52.500 and the articulation of positions, political positions that are on the other side of liberal

00:16:01.420 orthodoxy are a version of violence and therefore must be met with reciprocal violence. OK, I know that 0.98

00:16:11.320 most liberals don't believe that, but they exist within institutions and they need to hear this.

00:16:18.060 They exist within institutions that do put that forward as a reasonable belief,

00:16:25.280 that tolerate that as a reasonable belief, that encourage that among young people. I was a

00:16:33.700 university lecturer for a decade. I saw this firsthand. That is a very common belief. And while the

00:16:40.720 administration might not share that belief, they certainly don't go out of their way to oppose it.

00:16:46.040 And furthermore, they intentionally exclude a whole galaxy of ideas and ideologies that could present

00:16:56.580 an oppositional set of values and beliefs that might balance out that kind of extremism.

00:17:04.180 So, you know, there are there are degrees of culpability here. And I am I am again like I am trying to keep

00:17:13.640 my emotions in check here and like really stay focused and specific about where the bulk of the blame

00:17:21.180 lays. But there is a lot to go around. And just because Democratic politicians, which, by the way,

00:17:28.060 should not surprise you that practice politicians can read the room well enough to know when they're

00:17:34.940 supposed to say the line that, you know, exculpates them from any kind of responsibility and they disavow the

00:17:41.720 violence exactly as they should. And I will say it's good that they still feel like they have to do

00:17:47.020 that. That is one positive sign. But we ought to look underneath the hood. We ought to look at the

00:17:52.860 people who support those politicians and who don't have that same practice sense of when to say the line

00:18:01.000 and instead walk around with their masks off and dance, as you said, with glee on the grave of these

00:18:09.280 people. And there's a lot of them out there. They're in everyday positions at your schools,

00:18:16.320 in your hospitals, in the Secret Service, as you said, in the military. And OK, we'll get to this

00:18:23.020 as a second point. There needs to be something done about that. What? We will see. But it has to be

00:18:29.900 addressed. It has to be addressed head on.

00:18:32.340 No, I agree entirely. And, you know, Chris Ruffo made a point that I think is really important.

00:18:41.240 I'll push back on you a little bit, just a little bit and say that, you know, you say this is not

00:18:45.240 what the average liberal believes. I disagree. I think there is a percentage of liberals who don't

00:18:50.740 agree with it. But I think that percentage is reducing by the day. When you have 48 percent of

00:18:57.840 liberals saying, yes, you should be able to assassinate Elon Musk. Yeah, it's true.

00:19:02.280 Technically, that's a minority, but not by much. And Ruffo pointed out who is being radicalized is

00:19:07.400 also a very scary thing. You look at the people who are celebrating Charlie Kirk's death, and they

00:19:13.480 are disproportionately women inside of government caring professions, teachers, nurses, social workers.

00:19:23.240 These are obviously the people who are most dependent on the state for their livelihood.

00:19:31.940 They are people who are usually in professions where they are surrounded by others who have this

00:19:36.720 ideology. I've taught public school for many years. I can promise you many of my colleagues,

00:19:41.740 who I am very glad that I am no longer working with, are probably spent the last few days celebrating.

00:19:47.300 And so I, like you, have seen these people. I have looked into their eyes.

00:19:50.800 I know who these people are, and there's a lot of them. So I do agree that it's not everyone. I don't

00:19:57.120 think you should assume every liberal has this position. But I think we can probably stop lying

00:20:01.260 to ourselves that this is no longer the popular position. Let me say this. Because I take your

00:20:06.900 point, and you very well may be right. And whether it's slightly on one side of the ledger or the other

00:20:13.220 doesn't matter, doesn't matter, because it's enough people for it to be a real sort of epidemic of moral

00:20:19.220 crisis. Okay. Maybe it's wishful thinking. I just, I, it's like, perhaps a naivety, maybe, you know, I've been

00:20:34.060 thinking too much about Charlie Kirk, which is, I want to believe these people can be, can be talked out of this to

00:20:40.380 some extent. Of course. There are people who are hardened on the other side. And there are people

00:20:45.560 who say stupid things. And there are people, there are many people whose professed beliefs are entirely 1.00

00:20:53.900 superficial. They're not true convictions. And they take these beliefs on as a matter of, you know,

00:21:02.440 social nicety or some kind of like set of cultural dynamics that pushes them in one direction or another.

00:21:09.120 And I want to believe that they can be, they can be spoken to out of these positions. I agree with

00:21:15.260 you, however, though, where I say, I should say this. I think we agree, however, that there is a hardened

00:21:20.700 core. There is a real hardened core somewhere. How big? I don't know. But it's, it's sufficiently big

00:21:29.060 that there needs to be a state level response to it that does, in fact, believe these things,

00:21:37.560 does, in fact, with full conviction and well thought out reasons, want to see people like

00:21:45.580 Charlie Kirk and you and I wiped off the face of the earth. And that needs to change. We need to do

00:21:52.240 something about that.

00:21:54.120 I agree. Absolutely. And we're going to get into, again, with the what we think that the hard response,

00:21:59.600 the state response should be, and then what the cultural response should be. But before we do that,

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00:23:03.040 All right. So first thing, Jonathan, as you said, you know, we're not looking for a spiral

00:23:10.580 of violence here. I agree with you that ultimately that is not productive. It's not morally right,

00:23:15.600 and it's not politically astute. That said, the only way that a spiral of violence is avoided,

00:23:22.380 and I think we both agree on this, is a very severe response, one of justice, one that is authorized

00:23:31.740 by the state, but that one has dropped like an absolute hammer on these people. So we now know

00:23:37.440 this guy was a radical Antifa activist. We know that he was a part of the DSA. We know that he was

00:23:45.420 coordinating, and this is likely a planned hit with other political radicals that was facilitated in

00:23:54.160 many ways by these radical leftist structures that are allowed to operate legally inside our society.

00:23:59.620 And these are things we can't hit. These are things that the Trump administration absolutely

00:24:04.780 has the legal ability, the moral authority, and the political mandate to bring the hammer down on

00:24:10.800 right now. And so I think one of the key things has to happen is that we need to see a full spectrum

00:24:17.820 attack by law enforcement on Antifa, on BLM. We need to be looking at the DSA and whether or not it needs

00:24:25.520 to be shut down. We need to be rolling up every one of these networks. I want to see RICO cases brought.

00:24:30.360 I want to see convictions. If you can jail a proud boy for not even being at January 6th for the rest

00:24:36.740 of his life, then you can most certainly throw Antifa heads in jail. So I want to see these guys

00:24:42.660 in jail. I want to see them in leg irons. I want to see agents raiding their homes, swinging through 0.69

00:24:47.960 their windows. If you can bring an armed platoon to Robert Stone's house, you can bring it to a BLM 0.97

00:24:53.160 terrorist house. And I want to see the NGOs destroyed. The NGOs that are knowingly funding 0.77

00:24:58.580 this, the ones that are funneling money to these people, making sure that they're radicalized,

00:25:02.780 making sure that they get staffed up and deployed to riots. I want these people in jail. There is

00:25:08.660 zero reason the Trump administration cannot do this. And this is the time where they have the

00:25:13.080 blank check to do it on every level. So I think that has to be the state's response if they want to

00:25:18.320 avoid the spiral of violence you're talking about. Yeah. I mean, uh, I, I agree with all of that.

00:25:24.220 Uh, I want to see it done now. I want to see it done hard. I want it to be a complete total. Um,

00:25:31.220 and I want to even go further than that. I want to see, um, any institution that is receiving any kind

00:25:37.760 of public money, whether it's a hospital, a university, uh, anywhere who is employing somebody

00:25:44.740 who has participated in these domestic acts of terror, either, either as, uh, you know,

00:25:50.780 these Antifa thugs who walk around, uh, you know, there's this guy, I just was looking this up. Do you

00:25:56.340 remember Eric Clanton, the, uh, bike lock guy, okay. Trump rally. So he's, uh, you know, teaching at a

00:26:02.700 community college. Um, the Ivy leagues are still staffed with people who were part of the weather

00:26:08.860 underground, for example. Um, the exact same thing, uh, that is being done with DEI, where there is,

00:26:16.500 uh, funding being pulled from these institutions. If they continue down this track ought to be done

00:26:24.360 with this kind of, uh, Marxist violence. There is absolutely no place for this anywhere, even close

00:26:32.060 to the university. Now I am going to, uh, again, as best I can here, uh, offer some measure of, uh,

00:26:43.040 prudence and forbearance, which is this. Um, and it's, and it's strictly practical here in order for

00:26:50.420 this to succeed, it needs to be, like you said, swift and strong and unequivocating. However, it also

00:26:59.180 needs to not trigger the, uh, sort of civil liberties alarms of, um, your average person

00:27:08.740 that is going to be the way that they fight back against this. And believe me, they will fight back

00:27:14.000 against this and we need to prepare for this. So it needs to be very strategic. I think the public

00:27:20.300 has a extremely high tolerance, perhaps now more than ever, at least in my lifetime for an

00:27:29.040 action that is this severe. Uh, however, we should be mindful of how this is being done. We should be

00:27:37.920 very careful about our rhetoric. When we do this, we should be very careful and strategic about our

00:27:46.180 target selection. We should be absolutely sober and clear headed in every single place that we go

00:27:54.900 and every single person that we go after. This is much a PR battle as it is an institutional or

00:28:03.080 legal battle. And we have to remember that. I think that's right. And I know people will not

00:28:08.420 like that. I know people will say, Oh, well, this is just optics cucking or whatever, but guys,

00:28:13.060 you have to recognize that. Sorry, but there was no revolution yesterday. And so Trump is operating

00:28:18.620 inside of a political framework. And the, the thing is we are the right. We are the party of

00:28:25.560 order. We are the side of order. We're not looking for just wanton violence. We want the law. We want

00:28:31.680 justice, but we do want lawful justice. That said, there are many people who can receive lawful justice.

00:28:37.800 Yes.

00:28:38.640 Laws can be taken down if we have the political will. It's not that this can't be done. It's that up until

00:28:44.520 now we could not be bothered to get it done that they were too worried. Now I will say this either

00:28:48.980 way, no matter how you conduct themselves, the Democrats will write, will cry, you know, dictator,

00:28:53.600 fascism, lockdown, you know, uh, you know, crackdown civil liberties, all this stuff they're going to

00:28:58.240 do no matter what the minute you arrest one Antifa member, they're going to say, Oh, look, there's the,

00:29:03.360 there's the gulags. It's all coming or the camps or whatever. Uh, you know, it's all coming for us now.

00:29:08.480 They're going to say that no matter what. So you, you can't be cowed by them. You can't be cowed by that

00:29:13.060 language, but you, you should for your own soul and for your own movements, peace of mind so that

00:29:19.720 you can continue with unity and strength, make sure that you are bringing justice to the people who

00:29:24.820 deserve it. But, you know, look, yeah, sorry. No, it's okay. I just going to say, I, but, but I do

00:29:31.540 think it is, I will say this. I think we, I think it is time to be radical, but it is radical through

00:29:37.840 justice. I don't think it's time to be calm, but as you say, that anger does need to be harnessed

00:29:44.120 properly. If we do this right, the left can be crushed. We can break their back in this moment,

00:29:49.880 but it should be done in a way that is presentable to the average person.

00:29:53.740 Absolutely. Um, I don't want the takeaway from this to be that we soft pedal the response. That is not

00:30:01.940 the takeaway. Uh, the takeaway is that we go as fast and hard as we can, but we drive inside the

00:30:08.180 lines on the road. Uh, and the reason to do that is because we don't want to end up in a ditch before

00:30:15.340 we get to the finish line. This is going to take a long time. There shouldn't be an expectation

00:30:21.580 that you wake up tomorrow and every Antifa member is in jail. That is just simply not realistic. We need

00:30:29.500 to be realistic. We need to understand that this is going to carry into the midterms, into the next

00:30:36.380 term. We need to continue winning elections. We need to continue winning governor seats. We need to

00:30:42.640 continue winning Senate seats, et cetera, et cetera. We need to get our judges in. And we do that by being

00:30:50.220 responsible by the, uh, polity in this country, looking at us and saying, these are the people with

00:30:57.100 rightful authority, legitimate, rightful authority to serve on behalf of our interests. And that has

00:31:05.780 to be preserved. That is the way this works. Okay. So we can, we can get all, uh, sort of angry and,

00:31:13.720 uh, we can sort of lash out and be rash about this and have it end in the ditch in six months,

00:31:20.840 or we can have a long-term March that has lasting and durable change.

00:31:26.880 Yeah. And Trump has already hinted at this. He's already talked about going after the Soros

00:31:30.860 Soros network talked about, uh, you know, the fact that there is a wider network of left-wing violence,

00:31:36.720 uh, that needs to be shut down. So I think that Trump knows ultimately that this is something that

00:31:43.280 needs to happen, but he has to execute here. And I think that that is absolutely critical because

00:31:49.520 remember, it's not just these organizations, as we said, this kid was it from all, again,

00:31:55.080 we're still learning lots of information, everything's still coming in, but from what

00:31:58.260 we've seen, this student was radicalized, not by his parents. This isn't like a democratic family.

00:32:04.580 He was radicalized by people online, by the college. And so here's the next step that I think

00:32:11.980 needs to be taken. And you might disagree with me here, but I think this is pretty serious.

00:32:15.760 You know, yesterday the, the Jacobin came out with a, Oh, political violence is bad article.

00:32:22.800 And of course I know they don't mean it because they're called Jacobin. It's literally a magazine

00:32:27.700 named after a bloody French revolution where they murdered Christians and priests and everyone else

00:32:33.000 they could. And Glenn Greenwald gotten my mentions and said, Oh, well actually, no, of course,

00:32:38.180 Jacobin has never called for violence. And of course they mean it. And just because they have a name,

00:32:42.380 you know, it doesn't matter. Now I know that's garbage because Glenn's not going to go name his 0.97

00:32:46.520 outlet, the Wehrmacht nest, you know, tomorrow because the name really doesn't matter, but it's 0.98

00:32:51.280 also garbage because when I presented him with the fact, you know, he said, Oh, well show me where 0.85

00:32:55.680 these people have called for violence. I said, okay, here are several articles in a row where they call 0.97

00:33:00.660 every Trump supporter of fascists say he's a threat to democracy. They're going to, you know,

00:33:05.540 destroy the country, you know, just kill minorities, uh, put women in, you know, in, 1.00

00:33:10.500 in the handmaid's tale, all this stuff. And this is the stuff that drives people to this position. 0.99

00:33:15.680 And he got angry and he said, Oh, well, that's just a leftist position. You're just saying,

00:33:19.200 you know, that words are violence. And in the case of the word fascist, the answer is yes, it is.

00:33:24.780 I'm sorry. Yes, it is. Fascist is a, is a special word in our society. It's not even the same as

00:33:30.980 communist. It should be. Communists are way worse than fascists. And I think fascists were bad,

00:33:35.200 but communists are clearly worse. But in the left, because you know, we, we are in America, 0.93

00:33:39.460 because the left is just communist through and through, and they've been in power in so long,

00:33:43.220 we don't even blink when these people name themselves after murderous organizations. And

00:33:47.660 they have turned Hitler and the Nazis into Satan, secular Satan and secular demons. And therefore, 0.99

00:33:53.560 if they call you a Nazi or a fascist, what they are saying is you are not human. You are the

00:33:58.500 embodiment of evil. And I have a moral, not just the moral right, but the moral duty to kill you. 1.00

00:34:03.960 And so I think the term fascist being used by news organizations, by professors, by politicians, 0.99

00:34:09.520 this needs to become as, as forbidden as someone standing up and calling for a lynching. This

00:34:16.760 needs to have the same moral response, both from the culture and from institutions. If this occurs.

00:34:22.360 Yeah, I mean, look, as someone who's been on the receiving end of that, these kinds of accusations

00:34:28.880 that as we now know, and have known, puts you on the other side of violent lunatics, who think it is

00:34:38.300 their moral duty to act on these kinds of libels, which is what they are. I agree, there needs to be

00:34:47.920 a serious reconsideration about how we treat this language, both as a legal matter and as a social

00:34:56.020 matter. I don't know. And I, you know, when you say it, you think I, I could hear you, you know,

00:35:02.800 maybe suggesting that I might not agree on free speech grounds. And I have to be honest that when

00:35:08.840 I think about these things, you know, it's hard for me to reconcile what I prefer the world to be like

00:35:17.680 versus what it is. And I have to be honest with myself about what the world is right now, what these

00:35:26.540 words mean in the context of our current political and social environment. And when I take a look at the

00:35:33.900 reality of what they mean and leave aside my preferences about how they ought to be treated,

00:35:40.180 there is only one reasonable response to this. There is only one reasonable way that we can return

00:35:46.680 to an orderly and just and sane society. And it is to exact consequences, real costs, punishment

00:35:57.560 on people who use this kind of language, knowing full well exactly what it is going to result in.

00:36:05.780 What that looks like exactly, I don't know. That is something for the DOJ to decide. That is something

00:36:12.060 for our courts to decide. And frankly, I won't be a part of that conversation, I don't think. But

00:36:18.220 certainly, I would like to be a part of the cultural conversation in which we no longer tolerate that

00:36:23.980 kind of activity. And we apply real hard pressure on, again, any institution, any entity, any outlet

00:36:32.240 who allows that kind of rhetoric to be casually used. We have to have better standards, and we have

00:36:39.600 to apply them with soft power, if necessary, where we can. And this is something that I think,

00:36:47.420 you know, the right is a little bit maybe unfamiliar with, I shouldn't say unwilling to use,

00:36:52.560 it's just unfamiliar. We are finally in a place where we can actually wield some amount of soft

00:36:58.240 power, some amount of soft cultural power. We don't yet know exactly what that looks like,

00:37:03.520 because none of us have been in a position to do this before. Now that we are, we have to take

00:37:08.480 advantage of it. Of course, the left has been doing this forever, successfully. They have determined the

00:37:14.380 terms of debate, what is allowed to be said, what isn't. They have determined the moral landscape

00:37:20.740 under which we have these conversations, under which we hash out our political disagreements.

00:37:26.240 It is now up to us to determine the moral landscape, to determine what those terms of debate are going

00:37:33.140 to be. And there is no sort of libertarian position where we abdicate that responsibility. And we say that

00:37:39.500 there are just going to be no rules. That is not how this works. If we don't determine what those rules

00:37:44.520 are, somebody else is going to do it for us. We need to determine what those rules are.

00:37:50.900 Yeah. And I think it's important to remember that there have always, and even under free speech,

00:37:56.080 like pretty radical free speech words, there's always been an understanding that there is,

00:38:00.660 there are fighting words. There are words that once they are uttered, and this is even,

00:38:05.060 this is in constitutional law that, you know, there are words when uttered,

00:38:08.520 will lead to a fight, will lead to a confrontation, and is understood in this way.

00:38:12.540 One guy chanting, kill the boar, while everyone kind of like waves it away and boos it,

00:38:18.380 it's not the end of the world, right? You can tolerate one guy saying that. A stadium full of 0.75

00:38:23.000 people chanting, kill the boar, that's a threat to your family, right? And the same thing has happened 0.65

00:38:27.480 with the left. When it was one crazy kook going fascist, fascist, fascist, we could just be like, 1.00

00:38:33.200 okay, buddy, fine. But the vast majority of the left, they just think we're disagreeing with them. 0.99

00:38:36.820 Now, fascist is basically like just the, every other word out of the mouth of every leftist

00:38:42.760 pundit. And I'm with you. I'm sorry. I know there are going to be people who are going to hate this,

00:38:47.440 and I don't care because too many people are dead. There has to be a cancellation campaign on the

00:38:52.920 right. If you are a network that is using the word fascist, if you are a university that is letting a 0.97

00:38:59.960 teacher teach who's calling people fascist, if you are running a company and someone is calling

00:39:06.640 fascist, if you're employing someone who has attacked people as fascist, you need to fire

00:39:11.380 that person. They need to be removed from society. There needs to be a stigma, like I said, at the 0.98

00:39:17.360 level, if you had someone working for you who was openly calling for a lynching on social media,

00:39:22.840 you would fire that person tomorrow. I want to see the same behavior here. I want to see the same

00:39:28.380 level of outrage here. I want people to be scared to deploy that kind of language for fear of social

00:39:34.400 sanction. I'm not looking for the federal government to crack down on it. I want us to solve this

00:39:38.740 problem. Like you said, I am part of the cultural solution to this problem. And the cultural solutions

00:39:43.260 problem is there is a cost for throwing these kinds of threats out into public because that's what they

00:39:48.860 are. They are direct threats of violence. And I'm not going to sit around and just wring my hands.

00:39:55.840 Oh, what about free speech? If someone gets fired over threatening me and my family,

00:39:59.820 I do not care. I do not care. And I think we have to make that the standard.

00:40:06.280 Yes. Yes, absolutely. I endorse that position. Again, do not shy away from the responsibility,

00:40:15.120 the duty, in fact, to set the rules of polite discourse, how we talk about things in official

00:40:24.440 capacity. Because again, one thing I want to draw here is a distinction between, you talked about

00:40:31.260 one guy on the stage chanting, kill the Boer versus the entire stadium. There's also a dynamic here where

00:40:38.680 are mouthpieces for officialdom, okay? The Atlantic Magazine, The Guardian, newspapers, for example,

00:40:48.760 media outlets that at one time, no longer, I don't think, but at least at one time set the boundaries

00:40:57.560 for what could and could be said and certainly set the boundaries for what was and wasn't permissible

00:41:02.420 ideas. They have been trafficking in this kind of violent rhetoric. And when I say violent rhetoric,

00:41:12.740 I don't mean the words themselves are violence. I mean that they knowingly use this terminology

00:41:19.520 in order to sick their people in the direction of their political targets. They know this happens

00:41:29.360 and they do it intentionally. And so this kind of officialdom of speech, of discourse, where a lot of

00:41:37.920 this is happening is where we need to focus our attention. Some random guy on the internet saying

00:41:43.420 something stupid, I don't like that, that should be dealt with in its own way, but that's not where 0.99

00:41:48.880 we should be focusing the majority of our attention. Right. You can chase a thousand nails or you can get 1.00

00:41:54.340 rid of the, you know, the source, right? Like you can try to hammer down every one of these people

00:41:58.500 individually, but it's not, it's never going to work and that's going to be less popular. Taking out the

00:42:03.840 institutions that are, are the central radicalizing network. A lot of this stuff fades. A lot of this

00:42:08.980 stuff is being pumped artificially into people's minds. And if you get rid of the network of things

00:42:14.300 that are ultimately facilitating it, then I think that will be a huge step. Though I still think that

00:42:20.000 we need to have the level of personal accountability again, where in any deployment of this rhetoric is

00:42:25.140 grounds for being fired, is grounds for, for being, for being removed. That said though, obviously we're both

00:42:31.020 very passionate about the legal response that needs to happen to stop this again. But the other half

00:42:37.900 and the part that I really wanted to bring you on to discuss was the cultural legacy. You wrote, I think

00:42:42.640 a great piece about how Charlie Kirk should be honored and not just how he can be honored, but how the

00:42:48.700 right can rally around this. Whether you agreed with every position Charlie Kirk had, whether you thought

00:42:53.660 that he was the scion of conservatism or stumbling block to, you know, your version of the right,

00:42:59.280 where we can come together and understand that ultimately this is a guy who was working as a

00:43:05.300 patriotic American to better the United States. And by honoring him together and moving forward,

00:43:10.740 building institutions, building things in his honor, we can advance the cause of a world I think

00:43:16.060 that he wanted to bring into being.

00:43:17.900 Yeah. Um, this is something that's, uh, very important to me and I, you know, think maybe

00:43:25.120 selfishly, but I think it's even more important than the immediate legal response because this is

00:43:30.480 the thing that lasts. Um, when we talk about, um, for example, how these ideas came into being and came

00:43:37.240 to be normalized where you and I are being called a fascist Nazi, for example, it's because after the

00:43:44.420 sixties, the left was able to formalize their political revolution in the culture through symbolic

00:43:53.580 gestures. Um, and we need to do something similar here. We need to, uh, document at least the 10,

00:44:03.440 the last 10 years and our triumph over this bizarre and deranged politics that we have graduated out,

00:44:12.840 out from and which Charlie Kirk of course was, was central in defeating and use this as a moment to

00:44:21.960 permanently declare victory in this cultural moment. We are also going to claim here the mantle of the

00:44:30.980 American civil religion, which Charlie stood for. This is very powerful, a very enduring kind of

00:44:38.480 concept, uh, perhaps nobody. And, you know, I, I catch myself thinking maybe I'm just telling myself

00:44:45.360 this in the heat of the moment, but when I really think about it, what was Charlie's project? What was

00:44:49.680 he doing? Why? For whom? There is really no modern figure I can think of who better embodies that public

00:44:59.360 spirit, that civic virtue, those, that, that pious civil religious devotion that he had. Um, you know,

00:45:07.220 there's the Norman Rockwell meme, the guy standing up, you know, speaking to an audience, sitting down

00:45:12.300 that was Charlie Kirk. Okay. That was Charlie Kirk. Uh, he really genuinely believed in this bedrock

00:45:19.960 notion of being able to talk our way through these political disagreements and not having to resort to

00:45:26.600 violence. That's the tragic irony of all of this. He was the guy, perhaps the one guy who still held

00:45:34.180 out some hope that you could extend the olive branch, have a conversation, disagree on certain

00:45:40.980 things, but find a common humanity, find a way to have a coherent country in which people disagree

00:45:48.020 with each other on important, meaningful topics. He was vilified for this. And we need to declare that

00:45:56.740 that that is the model. That is the aspiration that we want people directed towards. That is our

00:46:03.980 preference for what this country ought to be versus what it has become. So how do we do that? We use

00:46:12.260 Charlie as a symbol and there are a number of ways to make him into a symbol. There are monuments,

00:46:19.360 the idea that I had, and that came to me through a friend and in conversation about some of these

00:46:26.980 various approaches we could take was through a national park. And the reason why natural national

00:46:32.940 park is so powerful is because it's permanent. It's the land. It's the thing underneath our feet.

00:46:38.720 It is the settled ground. It is no longer up for debate. And what we don't want to have up for debate

00:46:45.920 is whether men, great men, good men like Charlie Kirk are villains or not, deserve to be killed or not.

00:46:56.440 That must be settled ground. And the spirit that Charlie represented ought to be embedded in that

00:47:03.800 settled ground in the land itself. So that's one component to this. That alone, I think would be

00:47:10.000 extremely powerful. I also proposed a museum in the Smithsonian, a place for us to document the

00:47:18.260 insanity of the last 10 years and perhaps go back to, you know, the weather underground and the leftist

00:47:26.060 terrorism of the 60s and 70s, and perhaps even back further than that. I mean, there's all a bunch

00:47:32.220 of episodes in our history that are just footnotes, you know, the Wall Street bombing, the LA Times bombing,

00:47:37.600 people just sort of forget all of these things. They're not a part of the national memory. We need to make

00:47:43.460 these things a part of the national memory. We cannot forget what it is, which is the alternative to acting

00:47:50.660 like Charlie Kirk. The alternative to being like Charlie Kirk is being Bernadette Dorn. It's being the weather

00:47:57.840 underground. It's planting bombs in order to get your message across and construct a society to exist within your

00:48:07.220 deranged fantasies. So I, you know, obviously, this is something I want to see happen, and I think would be

00:48:14.280 really valuable, the details of which can be sort of negotiated and worked out as we go. But there has to be a

00:48:21.160 strong and permanent cultural response to this.

00:48:25.700 Agreed, agreed. And like you said, the, you know, the, the, I think the law enforcement is critical. I think we need to

00:48:31.060 break the, the back of these organizations in the short term, but in the long term, you need something

00:48:37.280 to replace them. You need something to fill this void. The, the ideology didn't come from nowhere. It

00:48:42.680 was grown, it was incubated, it was spread, and it is infecting even children of conservative households

00:48:49.640 to the point where they'll murder Charlie Kirk. So if that is the actual core of what's going on here, then of course

00:48:57.320 we need to get rid of the organizations funding it and delivering it, but we need to deliver an alternative. And

00:49:02.000 like you said, rallying around Charlie, rallying around his vision of America, rallying around the future that he wanted

00:49:09.280 for, you know, his wife and children. I think that is the way to honor the man. And I think that's also the way to fill the

00:49:16.280 void that ultimately is left by that leftist ideology that will give people a way forward together. We have quite a

00:49:25.200 few super chats stacking up. I know you've got a limited time somewhere. So if we run into your heart out, by all means,

00:49:32.080 just feel free to let me know. You've got to go. But I know a lot of people are, are feeling, you know, a lot of what we're

00:49:38.200 feeling right now. So I want to be able to run through some, some of their comments real quick.

00:49:42.200 Uh, Kyle, you boost the love soul says, right. Uh, rest in peace, Charlie Kirk. We all miss you.

00:49:50.000 The Rubicon has been crossed. I think that's what a lot of people are feeling right now. Good fortune

00:49:56.160 says we may only get louder and, uh, prouder of our heritage and in Christ and faithfulness to his

00:50:02.240 word. Of course, this is, I think what Charlie wanted the most, you know, he's got several videos

00:50:07.840 where people ask him, Hey, how do you want to be remembered? And he says, I want to be remembered

00:50:11.740 for my faith. Yeah. I want to be remembered for, uh, being a faithful servant of God. And so if you

00:50:17.880 want to honor this moment, then I think you should do what Charlie said.

00:50:24.000 Jeff says the admin should post daily statistics on how many discord leftists were arrested. I agree

00:50:29.320 entirely. I want to see scoreboards. I want to see lists with names. I want this to be serious as,

00:50:34.680 as you know, Jonathan said, we want it to be legal. We want it to be targeted. We want it to

00:50:40.500 be legitimate, but I want to see there are thousands of these people, if not tens of thousands of these

00:50:46.460 people, we can take out the ones that are leading these cells. We can take out the NGOs and I want

00:50:50.920 to see, I want to see it. I I'd like to say too, I think, um, I think there should be some spectacle to

00:50:56.840 this. Yeah. Everyone should see this. It should not be done in a kind of clandestine way where we don't

00:51:04.100 know what's going on. We don't know what they're, what they're doing. We should be able to see this.

00:51:08.480 The American people should be able to see this. There are a bunch of people out there, young people

00:51:13.260 out there whose actual minds aren't made up yet. They don't know, you know, which way the wind is

00:51:18.320 going to blow them. Uh, and it could go any number of ways. We want them to see what is happening and

00:51:25.040 where the moral authority is in this country so that they can adjust accordingly. Absolutely.

00:51:31.840 Cooper weirdo says, uh, the people who radicalize this punk are still on YouTube and are still

00:51:37.360 talking. We have to ask ourselves, does YouTube stand by their encouragement of violence? P.S.

00:51:42.880 We know the names and channels. Again, we, uh, this is not even a free speech issue. We know that

00:51:47.780 YouTube has, uh, terms of service, uh, which says you cannot make threats. You cannot use inflammatory

00:51:54.720 language for violence. We should be pushing across the spectrum to get, get the charge of fascism to

00:52:02.240 be one of these, uh, uh, these things that triggers YouTube's, uh, you know, demonetization or strikes

00:52:08.660 against the channel. In the same way, again, if someone got onto any conservative channel and said,

00:52:13.700 string up whoever, let's lynch this guy, that, that, that channel's done, right? That's toast. And,

00:52:18.400 and using this type of rhetoric should just be exactly the same when leftists do it. There should be no

00:52:22.900 difference at all. Uh, art says, uh, CK was the, uh, the moderate. They couldn't allow simply you,

00:52:31.840 uh, use, uh, simply use the laws on the books to dismantle the networks of the left. This isn't

00:52:36.640 complicated. Just requires power of the will to enact what needs to be nothing done. Nothing

00:52:42.240 extreme required again, uh, rest in peace, Charlie Kirk. And again, I totally agree. We don't need any new

00:52:48.180 emergency powers. We don't need to do anything crazy here. All of this is illegal.

00:52:52.900 All of this is illegal. If you actually decide to prosecute it, all of this can be done within

00:52:57.680 the bounds of law. And ultimately you're right. That Charlie Kirk was taken out because he was

00:53:03.160 effective. That's it. He was taken out because he was extremely effective. I know there's a lot

00:53:07.660 of people do is right. Who don't want to fear, hear that, but it's absolutely true. And if you

00:53:11.040 don't recognize that you're simply not an adult and you don't belong at the table. Okay. The reason

00:53:15.640 Charlie is gone is because Charlie was a monster because he was going to win a lot of people

00:53:21.040 over, he shifted college votes in an amazing way. Young people are voting for Donald Trump.

00:53:27.060 That's where you are right now. So taking him off the board is a massive win for the left and they

00:53:32.600 know it. And that's why they're celebrating it. And that's why these networks need to be eliminated.

00:53:40.060 Michael Gray says, uh, what disgusts me is the amount of teachers and armed forces, people who are

00:53:44.940 celebrating Charlie's death. It's not just anonymous weirdos anymore. Yeah. Again, huge problem.

00:53:49.860 This is just not, this is unfortunately a much more common position in the left than we would

00:53:55.500 like to believe, especially it seems among people in government jobs. There seems to be a very direct

00:54:01.780 connection between people who are dependent on the state for their paycheck and their willingness to

00:54:07.260 cheer for the murder of Charlie Kirk. It's important to, to note that the reason we see it is because

00:54:13.680 they think it's okay. They think they can get away with it without any consequence and the way to deter

00:54:21.000 them, you know, we have children here. How do you deter your child from doing something? You make it

00:54:27.600 consequential for them. There has to be consequences for this kind of behavior.

00:54:32.680 It's exactly right. And, and, and all the people, you know, all, all the squishes, I'm not going to 0.94

00:54:39.200 name names right now. It's not about personal rivalries, but all the squishes who are around 0.89

00:54:43.080 here saying, Ooh, watch out. You know, this new woke, right? These, these new people want to use

00:54:47.560 power. They're so dangerous. No, you are dangerous and you are getting people killed and you will continue

00:54:52.100 to get people killed. If you continue to tell the right, not to take action. Jonathan is exactly right.

00:54:56.920 There is zero reason there should not be consequences for this behavior. And the longer you allow this

00:55:01.300 behavior to fester, the longer you are encouraging people to kill more, to celebrate the death more.

00:55:06.420 And so there has to be a consequence. Everybody, everybody who's ever been in a playground scuffle

00:55:11.460 knows that if you let the bully punch you five times in a row, he's just going to punch you the

00:55:16.000 sixth time in a row. Everybody knows this and pretending like we don't know this because we're

00:55:20.360 worried that the left will call us mean names is insane. Elijah Tyman says, blessed are you when men

00:55:27.680 shall revile you and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for

00:55:32.700 my sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad for great is your reward in heaven. Amen. And that's

00:55:38.840 exactly, you know, many people have pointed this out. I won't be the first, but I will simply echo

00:55:42.800 it. Live the life that makes demons screech with joy when you die. The reason, you know, Charlie Kirk

00:55:49.800 was a great man is that all the most evil people in the world are celebrating his death. And while that's

00:55:54.460 an ugly thing to know about people in our country, that is a testament to Charlie Kirk, because he's

00:56:00.440 lived the kind of life that made people hate him for all the right reasons, because he loved God,

00:56:05.560 because he loved his family, because he loved this country.

00:56:09.960 Wild Speaker says, what are your thoughts on the idea of public capital punishment? Non,

00:56:14.020 not fed boasting, legitimately interested in your perspective. Yeah, I think the death penalty is

00:56:19.380 absolutely a tool of the righteous magistrate that has been handed to him. The sword has been placed

00:56:24.620 in the hand of the magistrate by God, and he is destined to swing it. He who withholds that sword

00:56:30.600 is doing a disservice to the state. They are in disservice to the people that they're supposed to

00:56:34.760 serve, and most importantly, a disservice to God. So yeah, I am 100% in, you know, in support of

00:56:41.480 completely legal, after a fair trial, capital punishment. I am fine with it being public, especially

00:56:48.180 for crimes like this, where the person absolutely needs to be set an example of, a determined example

00:56:54.240 for the rest of society, and I think it needs to become a lot swifter. No more of these 20-year 0.99

00:56:58.800 waits for capital punishment. These people should get a fair trial within six months, and then they

00:57:04.480 should be, you know, properly dealt with. Weird E-curb. The number of people I'm seeing saying that

00:57:12.920 they're going to church for the first time after this is hopeful. My mom is such a case. God works

00:57:17.500 evil for good. Again, I agree. When you see things like this, I think the only response

00:57:23.200 to, as a reasonable person, is a return to faith, a return to worship, a return to being

00:57:29.580 in the presence of the transcendent, and I think, again, that's exactly what Charlie would

00:57:34.000 have wanted his legacy to be, so. Philosophical Thirstworm says, I am so ashamed that the times

00:57:42.300 I called Charlie corny, compromised and naive, he was the best of us, what the hell have I done,

00:57:47.220 and what have I created? Look, man, I think there's a lot of people on the right who are coming to this

00:57:51.400 realization. Of course, Charlie Kirk was famously griped, right? Like, this was the famous showdown

00:57:56.760 between Charlie and some people on the right, and I think that Charlie paid attention, and I think

00:58:03.280 Charlie moved his positions. If you listen, go listen to Charlie Kirk talking to Doug Wilson

00:58:08.700 in probably his last interview before his death, the one they just released. Charlie Kirk's positions

00:58:15.560 are get rid of the Civil Rights Act. Charlie Kirk's positions are Americans are a real identity.

00:58:22.580 Like, Charlie is saying things that many of us would have not said online with our real faces 10 years

00:58:29.220 ago. He was doing that now, right? Now, you might say, too late to the game. No, screw you, okay?

00:58:34.360 This guy had everything. He has been a political giant. He started TPUSA as basically a child and 0.98

00:58:42.100 became one of the most powerful political actors, and he was heading exactly where you have been

00:58:47.460 saying the whole time you need to go. We all, me too, we all looked at Charlie at different times and

00:58:51.720 said, come on, guy, you know, get a little, move a little further to the right. Come on, stop,

00:58:56.220 stop, you know, you know, blocking people, this kind of thing, whatever. But Charlie is, was,

00:59:01.620 was growing and, and doing all kinds of amazing things. And so I think a lot of people are ultimately

00:59:07.680 coming to this realization that they were too hard on Charlie Kirk, and they should have recognized

00:59:11.540 what a valuable asset he has. And all I can say is good and apply that because we're going to need

00:59:16.480 it in the future. Yeah, I just want to speak on this because I've been, I've been seeing stuff like

00:59:20.120 this all over. And to the question here at the end of this, what have I created? What have I done?

00:59:25.740 The question should be, what will I do now that I've come to this realization? And, you know,

00:59:33.520 Charlie's great virtue was not that he was always right. It's that he had a combination of incredible

00:59:39.680 talents and a certain humility about himself. And it's this really rare kind of combination of having

00:59:49.040 this tremendous humility to change your mind, but then to be confident in your convictions.

00:59:56.900 And then also do that, though, without the kind of moral preening that often comes with that kind

01:00:02.040 of conviction. And it's just like this combination of really impressive traits. And this is why he was

01:00:07.640 so popular. This is why people liked him. This is why people followed him. This is why people were

01:00:11.480 willing to tolerate when they disagreed with him. And I think the lesson here for all of us is,

01:00:17.940 yeah, let's be a little bit more like that. Let's recognize what the shared goals here are,

01:00:23.560 what the destination is for this thing, and what we're doing, and work toward that rather than

01:00:30.600 trying to maximize the satisfaction that our ego gets by being right. And Charlie never suffered from

01:00:40.160 that kind of egotism. If you watch his debates, you know, college kids will just say all kinds of

01:00:46.600 insane things to him. And every time his response is, well, when you lose the debate, you know,

01:00:51.640 you just resort to that. And God bless you. I really hope that you figure this out. I'll be

01:00:55.360 praying for you. He never loses his cool. He never gets flimp it. He never comes back in anger. He's

01:01:00.740 always just beaming positivity. And that is a powerful force because I promise you those kids walk away

01:01:08.120 super angry. Kohl's heaped upon their head. But a few hours later, they're like, why is he so happy?

01:01:17.880 Why is he like that? Right? And that that is the pebble that is going to be in their shoe

01:01:22.880 forever. Not because Charlie Kirk beat them on the logic, though, of course he did.

01:01:26.840 But because Charlie Kirk beat them in logic the way he did. And I'm not saying and I want to be

01:01:32.420 clear here because I'm the foremost person to push this. I am not saying we need to go back to

01:01:36.720 debating society conservatism. OK, Charlie was the best of this and they shot him in the throat for

01:01:43.780 it. He was the voice of reason and they shot him in the throat. So now they get something else.

01:01:49.040 And I want Donald Trump to bring the something else. I want him to roll these people up like a carpet.

01:01:54.140 I want them done. But don't lose sight of who Charlie was and why he felt the way that he did,

01:02:01.280 because I want us to be back into a society where guys like Charlie are the norm. But we're going to

01:02:06.220 need a few steps to get there. We're going to have to take some pretty serious steps to get there.

01:02:10.880 And that's that's ultimately where I think we should be going.

01:02:16.060 Pasta Baron says the people who are celebrating Charlie Kirk's death is the same identity of his

01:02:21.160 assailant. They are the one in the same. The details don't matter. They matter a little bit,

01:02:26.260 but I hear what you're saying. Ultimately, I'm not OK with just flying by the fact that people are

01:02:32.180 behaving this way. And I think there needs to be a cost. Jonathan has said the same thing. I think

01:02:36.760 we all agree on this. There has to become a very severe cultural cost at the very least and when

01:02:42.520 possibly legal cost for what these people are doing and how they are conducting themselves. So

01:02:47.440 I wouldn't say they're one in the same, but I do think that we need to treat this with

01:02:50.940 incredible severity. We have to take it very seriously.

01:02:56.540 Chan, the man says, how does one me approach my co-workers and friends that are cheering for

01:03:00.940 Luigi and Trump and likely Charlie Cork as well? I find it hard to share a table with them. Yeah,

01:03:06.820 this one's extremely difficult. Again, I'm very happy that I do not have co-workers like that anymore.

01:03:12.980 And even, you know, my friends that have are liberal. They know better because when they look

01:03:17.580 at someone like Charlie Kirk, they see me and they are ultimately my friends. So even if we disagree

01:03:22.220 on something, they know that this kind of violence could happen to their friend and our friendship is

01:03:27.100 more important than their ideology. And those are the only kind of liberals you can even talk to at this

01:03:32.340 point. Yeah, I mean, my feeling right now is to be all fire and brimstone and, you know,

01:03:41.080 make sure that people who are celebrating assassinations and death this casually and wantonly

01:03:48.700 pay some consequence for it. But I have to say that if they are your friends,

01:03:57.160 and I mean, you have an interpersonal relationship with them that transcends politics,

01:04:02.220 hang on to that. That's valuable. Don't throw that away over politics. I don't think that's a good

01:04:08.180 idea. I think you need to try to talk to them about this where it's appropriate and where you can.

01:04:14.940 But don't throw away your personal life to political disagreements. I think, again, a lot of people

01:04:21.660 don't even know why they believe the things they believe, let alone feel them with any real conviction

01:04:27.740 or feel them deeply. And some may, and for those people, you may not be able to carry on

01:04:34.920 a personal relationship with them. But I think you'll find a lot of people are willing to see

01:04:40.760 the humanity underneath you and underneath these disagreements. And now is as good a time as any

01:04:47.480 to try to draw that out from people. So that's my kumbaya speech for the afternoon.

01:04:53.000 Yeah, get one in there.

01:04:55.760 Wild Speaker says, not all liberals, but enough of them. Unfortunately, I think that is now the case.

01:05:00.720 Theod says, how do you think this affects the midterms? Do you actually think that there are

01:05:05.980 no modern conservatives anymore? Will normies forget this by the midterms? This is a really,

01:05:12.020 sadly, this is a really good point. And I was, you know, I've been saying this in private,

01:05:15.940 but this is our duty. Okay. When we had the Trump assassination, obviously that was shocking to the

01:05:21.580 conscience and it was so close to the election that I think it had a significant impact on what was

01:05:26.920 going on. As horrific as this moment is, the temptation is always to let it fade. The temptation

01:05:34.240 is always to let the news cycle churn on the next controversy come in. And that's ultimately what

01:05:39.720 happened with the Trump administration, which is why, you know, even though the man was shot,

01:05:43.920 we basically saw very little, if any actual response to that fact. And we can't let that happen

01:05:49.720 again. So I think part of this, you know, a lot of people say, Ooh, keyboard warriors,

01:05:54.400 what can you do? What can we, you know, online, it doesn't really matter. Well, there is something

01:05:58.920 you can do. Actually, you can hold people to account. You can keep this in the forefront of

01:06:04.060 their mind. There are already Republicans who are trying to give their speeches on tax credits and

01:06:08.880 whatever else. And I know that stuff matters, but right now, the only issue, the only issue that

01:06:14.780 exists in the United States, especially for the right is the assassination of Charlie Kirk,

01:06:19.400 every congressional meeting, every Senate hearing, every press conference, I don't care what it was

01:06:26.100 about. It's now about Charlie Kirk being assassinated. That has to be kept front of mind if action is

01:06:32.500 going to be taken. And so if you want to know what you can do, how you can make sure that this

01:06:37.300 actually carries on, I think into the midterms, it's to do your best to push that with whatever

01:06:42.460 influence you have. Maybe you don't have a lot. Obviously, some of us have more than others,

01:06:46.400 but I think that is a real thing that we can do. And we have to because we don't. I think there is

01:06:51.500 a very sad possibility that this could fade. Yeah. And I mean, this is why the symbolic is

01:06:56.560 so important. We have to formalize that memory in in things and stuff in places in monuments in

01:07:03.800 statues. And I think it's really important that the administration, I mean, this can be left to some

01:07:11.080 degree to the private sphere and the private sphere ought to do stuff to enshrine this memory

01:07:18.440 where it's appropriate and how it's appropriate. But the administration also has to step up here

01:07:23.040 and do something. It's very important that this memory does not wither and fade.

01:07:29.260 Well, and I'll be real honest here, and I'm not just trying to like work a hobby horse, but this is

01:07:33.280 just a directly related thing. The administration has shown that it is more than willing to threaten

01:07:38.940 and shut down institutions that that push anti-Semitic hate. So if they can do it for

01:07:44.880 Israel or, you know, anti-Semitism, they can certainly do it for Charlie Kirk. Yeah, there's 0.98

01:07:50.580 just no excuse. I know they can do it, so they should do it. The end. I don't want to hear excuses

01:07:55.600 about, oh, no, no. Like if you can put pressure on universities, if you can put pressure on big tech

01:08:00.960 over comments on Israel, you can most certainly do it because someone murdered Charlie Kirk.

01:08:06.060 So let's do it. And I don't want to hear any, any complaining about it.

01:08:09.620 It's an absolute no brainer. I mean, and, you know, Charlie Kirk is the individual that a lot

01:08:14.760 of these comments will certainly be focused on, but the entire tapestry of rhetoric around

01:08:21.480 Antifa, Marxist, what is domestic terrorism ought to also fall under the purview of whatever law

01:08:30.640 or prohibition or threat of pulled funding that we're talking about here. Make it expansive,

01:08:37.420 make it big, make it last.

01:08:41.420 Thirst Worm says, I've been suffocating from millennial irony disease. This kind of nihilistic

01:08:47.520 apocalyptic fantasy can't exist anymore. I regret all the pointless edginess and shock jockeying.

01:08:54.520 I'm just like these freaks. Well, man, look, I understand that moments like this are ones of

01:09:00.000 reflection. And look, we all make mistakes. Try not to beat yourself up too much about it,

01:09:05.000 but do make a change. Like I said, Charlie Kirk laid out a list of things that you should be doing

01:09:10.780 to better yourself and better the country. And it was like, believe in Christ, get married,

01:09:17.420 have kids, you know, better your community, get active in politics. Okay. So if you want to make it,

01:09:23.740 make it up, do those things. All of those things will pull you out of the nihilistic spiral. The

01:09:29.260 spiral comes from being isolated and detached. If you need help, talk to the old glory club.

01:09:35.140 This is a network of guys, a fraternal organization, lifting each other up and making it possible for

01:09:40.360 people to do things in the real world that, that allow that align with our values. So if you need

01:09:46.000 brothers, then get brothers in Christ first, go to church. But if you need people with similar

01:09:51.500 goals who are looking to be active, then join the old glory club because it's join or die at this

01:09:57.740 point, guys, you have to escape the cynical millennial nihilism. And the only way you do

01:10:02.420 that is by getting involved. Take it into the real world. We all started online. You're talking to two

01:10:06.680 guys who definitely started extremely online. So we get it. But now we're both trying to do things in

01:10:11.840 the real world because that's what makes it concrete. And that's what makes it worth doing.

01:10:15.680 Yeah, I just want to say to you're not just like these freaks because you have self awareness about

01:10:20.860 it. Okay, you recognize it in yourself. So you're already like 80% of the way to wherever you need

01:10:26.980 to get to. I tweeted today that like, everybody's truning out in one way or the other. And what this

01:10:33.680 guy is describing here is like the equivalent of truning out. There's like a political dimension to

01:10:38.960 this where, you know, you try to escape your material circumstances by adopting some kind of

01:10:46.460 like perverse and false identity as a replacement for what is real in the world and what is normal,

01:10:55.540 insane and healthy. And stop truning out. Don't be a trune. Okay, this applies to your political life. 0.97

01:11:01.800 Be normal. And again, it's like, you know, we're sitting here on the eve of or right after the

01:11:09.080 death of a guy who perfectly embodied the opposite of that. He was normal. He was normal. He believed

01:11:16.060 pretty much most of the things you believed, but he was normal. So use that as a model. And you're

01:11:23.020 going to find yourself in a much better place. No, that's absolutely right. There's, you know,

01:11:27.920 Kevin Dolan at one point said something like, we're all living through the decision of whether 0.83

01:11:33.400 to, you know, masturbate the instinct or actually satiate it, whether to create the simulacrum or

01:11:40.700 whether to actually solve the, you know, the real life problem and the alienation and, you know, 0.54

01:11:46.700 the nihilism you feel is a direct result of removing yourself from the real, from simulating real

01:11:52.700 family, real friendship, real world accomplishment instead of being there. And I know that's

01:11:57.760 much easier to say than do. Trust me. I spent a long time trying to figure out what I was supposed

01:12:02.420 to do and how I was supposed to get it done. And I, I a hundred percent hear you. But the only way out

01:12:09.100 is through. And so you've got, you've got to get involved. You've got to put yourself in a place

01:12:12.860 where you can be attached and in community. And there are people out there who can help you do

01:12:18.360 that. So I encourage you to. Let's see. I have no idea how to pronounce your name. So I'm not going to

01:12:25.720 try. Why aren't a thousand, uh, why aren't thousands being deplatformed right now? Trump

01:12:29.320 has dinner with the big tech guys and can't pick up the phone to get them to deplatform these psychos.

01:12:34.880 Again, I think it would be difficult in order to, um, uh, I think it would be difficult in, you know,

01:12:40.560 to actually get every one of these people. I don't think you can hit every nail, but I do agree

01:12:44.620 that he should be pushing certain big platforms like YouTube and move fascist into the category of any

01:12:51.800 other, uh, direct call to violence. I think that should be a change that occurs. Uh, I know that

01:12:57.300 Jonathan has to get going, so I'll go ahead and finish out the super chats, but I want to thank

01:13:01.520 you so much for coming by, man. I know this is a difficult topic for everybody. I actually,

01:13:05.920 you know, even when I sent you this, I said, look, if you don't want to come, I get it. You know,

01:13:10.380 I, I have a hard time talking about this live on air. Uh, but I appreciate you because I think

01:13:15.560 that ultimately your voice is important. We need to find a way, not just legally, but culturally

01:13:20.140 to move forward together. And I think that the one you offered was a great one. So, so thanks

01:13:24.380 again for coming on. Thanks, Orin. I appreciate it. You too, man. Um, you know, this is a good

01:13:28.620 conversation. This, this is a way to, uh, address, you know, grief and it, and it's real in this case.

01:13:37.200 And, um, and we're, you know, we have to channel this energy into something that outlasts us all.

01:13:45.520 Uh, I, I think that's important and I intend to do that and, um, I hope you're well. All right,

01:13:53.100 Charlie and, uh, God bless. Take care of yourself.

01:13:59.140 All right, guys, go ahead and catch up on the rest of the super chats real quick. 0.98

01:14:02.660 Uh, tiny stupid demon says, I agree that whatever the percentage, uh, that the hard left needs to be, 0.98

01:14:08.840 uh, defeated, the others will fall, uh, in line. Otherwise both of you keep up the good work. 1.00

01:14:14.340 Well, thank you very much. And yes, I agree a hundred percent. I think if you can shut down

01:14:18.400 the worst actors, a lot of this will fade, not all of it. Uh, there's still a lot of work to do,

01:14:23.020 but I think that if you get the worst influences out, you get rid of the incentives for people to

01:14:26.940 believe this hateful stuff, uh, it will, it will, uh, you know, the, the, uh, FUMOS will drain from

01:14:34.000 many of the leftists who are currently acting the way that they are. Uh, sheriff's 1776 says what

01:14:40.160 civil liberty alarm they've been dead and COVID lockdowns proved it again. I look, I agree with

01:14:46.440 you that this, we are well past the Rubicon on this one, but you do have to remember as, as Jonathan

01:14:52.220 pointed out that the civic religion still has a lot of sway, even though the left violated it over and

01:14:56.600 over again, the arguments that they make will appeal to this. And if you can do this in a way

01:15:02.080 that does not trigger some of those, you should, again, they will call you a, you know, a dictator

01:15:06.300 and a fascist, no matter what. So that's just something you need to be ready for. You can't

01:15:10.700 let that cow you. However, if you do have the color of law on your side, it will be persuasive, 0.72

01:15:16.720 persuasive to more people in the middle. And you have to take that account into account. I know,

01:15:22.180 you know, many of us wish that wasn't the case, but it is just the political reality right now.

01:15:26.600 And that doesn't mean that you should back down in any way, shape or form. There are ways, look,

01:15:31.400 the left can do this. The left can do this and still keep the color of the law, at least the

01:15:35.520 illusion of it somewhere in place. We should just do the same thing. I'm not saying that we should

01:15:39.400 be any weaker than the left is on this stuff. I just think that we should keep the color of law in

01:15:43.420 place. Philosophical Thirstworm says, look at the GOP reps very carefully. They all personally knew

01:15:49.520 Charlie. They don't know you. If they don't show up to Charlie, if they won't show up for Charlie,

01:15:55.080 they won't show up for you. Yeah. And I think that's exactly the argument that should be made.

01:15:58.800 I think that's an excellent way to frame that. That's a great framing. I will use that

01:16:02.420 when I am addressing public officials and I think others should do the same.

01:16:07.380 Tiny Stupid Demon says, also pray for JD Vance, his eloquent eulogy for Charlie followed by watching 0.58

01:16:11.880 him walking with his hand on Charlie's casket, tore me up. May God, the Lord God give him strength.

01:16:17.540 Yes, of course, JD Vance was good friends with Charlie Kirk. And that is a major loss. And that's why I think

01:16:24.460 the administration will ultimately do something about this because Charlie Kirk was simply too

01:16:30.420 tied into everything. And many people have alluded to the idea that Charlie Kirk was instrumental in

01:16:36.320 even elevating JD Vance to the vice presidency. So I cannot imagine JD not taking this very seriously.

01:16:45.200 Florida Henry says, in my experience, the majority of headquarters, staff, and all organizations,

01:16:49.400 including military health, police probably support what happened. Can you think of an institution

01:16:53.400 not infected? No. And this is why I think it needs to be dealt with very swiftly. There need to be

01:16:59.060 really harsh punishments that there have to be consequences. And I support all of them. I'm not

01:17:04.620 hesitating. Cancellations, firings, imprisonment when necessary, complete shunning from public

01:17:11.620 work. If you are someone who is supporting political violence, it should be impossible for you to get any

01:17:17.900 kind of work in any of these public sector positions. That is like the very basic thing

01:17:22.500 you can do. Again, we would never employ somebody who's publicly calling for lynchings. We should not

01:17:27.660 be employing someone who's calling or celebrating political assassinations. There's nothing. You don't

01:17:32.960 need to change any laws. You don't need to get radical. You just need to have the same kind of

01:17:37.000 standards that any rational human being would have for this kind of behavior.

01:17:41.080 Raspy Block says, no questions or comments, only gratitude. Thank you very much for your

01:17:47.080 leadership, Oren and Lomas. We are grateful for you both. Well, thank you very much. I mean, this is a

01:17:51.080 very difficult time for everybody. And you don't know what to do. And you don't know what to say.

01:17:55.100 Everyone is hurting. Everyone is reeling. Everyone is, I think, looking deeply into their soul on this

01:18:00.720 one. And so I just hope that we're some help. I know so many people are trying to process this right

01:18:06.800 now. And it can be difficult to talk to people because you literally don't know if the person

01:18:11.580 you're talking to might turn around and say, yeah, Charlie Kirk deserved it. So in many ways,

01:18:15.500 unfortunately, these spaces are some of the places that people only, you know, some people can't

01:18:21.220 mourn anywhere else. And that's a tragic. And I hope you plug in to friends and family and community

01:18:26.920 where you can get real, you know, skin on, you know, support in these moments. But I'm glad that

01:18:34.360 if you can't, then at least we have a place where we can, we can deal with these things.

01:18:40.380 Mel Gibson, after four meals, Fuentes was, uh, had a good sober take. Uh, we, the citizenry

01:18:45.620 don't have to commit violence. We can still, uh, uh, we can still socially retaliate name,

01:18:51.380 shame, ostracize. These people know how, uh, uh, these people must know this ends now. I mean,

01:18:57.640 I of course agree with that, but like Nick Fuentes spent all of his time hating Charlie Kirk. So

01:19:02.620 I guess, I mean, he, he, he spent all the time disparaging the guy, calling him a foreign agent,

01:19:09.420 you know, telling him, you know, saying that he wasn't a real Christian. So maybe sit this one out.

01:19:15.260 Uh, philosophical thirstworm says BB and co are already trying to siphon all the steam out for

01:19:19.680 their own ends. These moments are precious and few. The window is temporary. Yeah. I'm a look,

01:19:24.700 I know that I know that Charlie was a fan of Israel. People are going to have different feelings about

01:19:30.120 that. I understand that in that scenario, uh, Netanyahu probably wants to like honor him in

01:19:36.720 some way, but yeah, better to just sit this one out, man. Like really, um, we got things we need

01:19:41.880 to do here. You're not a part of it. Uh, you know, I'm sure he's met Charlie at so at the level,

01:19:48.060 it's a personal loss for him. Fine. Uh, but yeah, this is not about Israel either way. This is not

01:19:53.360 about Israel. If you're anti Israel, this is not about Israel. If you're pro Israel, this is not about

01:19:57.300 Israel for the love of God. Can our politics just not be about Israel? Just please in this moment

01:20:03.880 for the love of God, can we just not care about Israel one way or another? Can we focus on the

01:20:10.280 man who was killed? Can we focus on his family? Can we focus on the country, the United States that

01:20:15.080 we love and care about that he loved and cared about? Can we just do that? Mel Gibson, uh, says,

01:20:21.580 uh, hell, as far as I'm concerned, their jobs are fair game. Yeah. Again, I'm not weeping for a moment

01:20:26.820 over people losing their jobs for celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk. Not, not even for a second.

01:20:32.440 Uh, Thirstworm says, Providence is incredible. Of course, Charlie, uh, named it turning point.

01:20:36.980 That's what all it was always meant to be. God is great. Yeah. If there's one thing for sure,

01:20:41.600 we are most certainly at the turning point. Wild Speaker says, being the culture or being the

01:20:46.900 culture means being visible. You should talk about your faith openly and proclaim the lordship of

01:20:52.320 Christ openly be the beacon that others, uh, can walk towards. Uh, this requires bravery. Yes.

01:20:58.060 And again, this was Charlie's wish, right? Like this was his wish. This is how he wanted to be

01:21:03.000 remembered. So if you would like to honor him, honor him by spreading the faith he cared so dearly

01:21:08.320 about. Truth and Joyer says, insisting it must be, it can only be intelligence or inside job strengthens

01:21:16.980 the idea that the left isn't actually powerful or important as a cultural political force. They,

01:21:21.600 uh, they slip accountability. Yeah. I gotta say, um, everyone had a hobby horse on this one. It's,

01:21:26.980 it's, it's Ukraine. It's Israel. It was Qatar. And, uh, I have nothing but for contempt for people 1.00

01:21:32.940 pushing this stuff. Look, I had my questions like everybody else. Uh, 200 yards is not an impossible

01:21:39.300 shot with a hunting rifle. Hunters take that shot all the time, but it's not easy. And the guy was able

01:21:44.460 to exfiltrate himself without being caught. Uh, he obviously we now know had assistance.

01:21:49.760 So you could feel, you could feel the fact that perhaps more was going on there. Now we know more

01:21:56.440 was going on, but we know it was, uh, it was a leftist terrorist network. That's okay. That's

01:22:02.480 enough. The fact that they're active, active leftist terrorists in the United States is enough. We do not 0.86

01:22:08.100 need to go after, you know, foreign actors. If, if that happened to be the case, if that really was

01:22:14.080 what happened, yeah, of course I'd support it, but this is what it is. Okay. And I'm more than happy

01:22:18.780 to shut down every leftist terrorist organization and everyone funding them and everyone supporting

01:22:23.460 them. That is fine. I don't need to have some story about a foreign government building this thing.

01:22:30.340 Uh, again, I'm sorry. I don't think I can possibly pronounce that name. Uh, Nick Fuentes eulogy, uh,

01:22:36.040 eulogy is the greatest of all time speech. He takes the throne of youth right-wing leader. Now,

01:22:40.780 again, uh, you can feel however you want about Nick, but, uh, he was, uh, vehemently opposed to

01:22:46.040 Charlie Kirk. He attacked him at every moment. He didn't just disagree with him on the issues.

01:22:50.160 He attacked his character. He, uh, suggested his loyalty was not real. He suggested his faith is

01:22:54.660 not real. Uh, again, you, you can, if you like Nick's politics or his presentation, then fine. Uh,

01:23:00.580 but pretending like Nick Fuentes is suddenly some lion defending Charlie Kirk is, is ridiculous. Look, 0.98

01:23:06.900 we all had differences with Charlie at some point in our career. You could probably find clips of

01:23:11.520 people, uh, who, who ultimately respect him saying at one point or another that he needed to be

01:23:16.500 stronger in something or he shouldn't, you know, gatekeep something. That's fine. But Nick took

01:23:20.680 it to a different level and I'm sorry, I'm not just going to sit here and pretend that he didn't.

01:23:25.640 Uh, Samoa Bob says the shooting might be forgotten by midterms. Celebrations will not be forgotten.

01:23:31.380 Yeah. I think that the fact that the left behaved the way that they did the way that the average left

01:23:36.900 behaved the way that they did, I think will really cement this one in a way that, uh, others

01:23:41.420 weren't. I, I, I do believe that that's true. Life of Brian says Katie Britt, uh, Republican South

01:23:48.360 Carolina already essentially wrote, let us all turn down the heat so I can go back to grifting,

01:23:52.860 please. Yeah. Many Republican politicians doing this. I'm sure a lot of them think that at some

01:23:57.260 point they are, you know, doing the right thing as a public figure and trying to keep, uh, violence

01:24:02.500 from boiling over. Uh, but it's also very clear. A lot of these people are just uncomfortable

01:24:06.520 with the idea of not just, you know, demanding tax cuts for, you know, the chamber of commerce

01:24:12.500 or something. The idea that they would really need to stand in the breach and deliver a swift and

01:24:17.340 real punishment to the left is scary to them. And they'd rather just have it all go away. Uh, but it's

01:24:21.900 not going away. It's not going away. Like I said, they, they shot the moderate guy. Um, and so, uh,

01:24:27.600 we're not, we're not going back to business as usual. We're staying in the color of law,

01:24:31.740 but we are bringing the hammer of law. That has to be the answer. Alex says, if there are no real

01:24:38.040 consequences from this, the left wins forever. Trump needs to act fast. Uh, if not then peaceful

01:24:43.240 resolution is a plan B for patriots. Again, I've said this so many times, uh, but I'll say it one

01:24:51.140 more because it's true and it needs to be repeated. Uh, anyone who is warning you about Franco,

01:24:56.080 anybody who's warning about the coming dictatorship or coming authoritarianism,

01:24:59.940 if they're really worried about the, the way it happens, the way you get Franco, the way you get

01:25:05.780 the right you're scared of is if the people who are in charge now don't act. So if Donald Trump

01:25:13.000 doesn't act and I believe he will, like I said, I think he and JD Vance were very close to Charlie

01:25:18.080 Kirk. I think they know what time it is, but if they don't, if, if they don't, then yeah, what comes

01:25:24.280 next will be what everyone feared because at some point people won't stand for this anymore and maybe

01:25:31.940 they won't, you know, vote in, in a, in a traditional sense for it, but you will find a slow and growing

01:25:38.300 support, uh, for more radical action. So if you want to end this, the way to end this now, the way to

01:25:43.740 stop the spiral of violence is to do justice and to do it swiftly, thoroughly, and savagely.

01:25:52.700 It should be just, but it should be without remorse. These people deserve it. They are killing

01:25:59.180 people. I don't have time for excuses. So I think that's the way it needs to be done. All right,

01:26:05.080 guys, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up. Once again, I want to thank everybody for watching,

01:26:08.680 obviously very difficult time. And I really hope I sit with your family, go to church,

01:26:15.280 find the people that you love and care about getting, get together with friends in real life

01:26:20.240 and, um, you know, connect, don't sit around nihilistically connect with people. These are

01:26:28.860 difficult times. Everyone is grieving and it's, it's, it's an important time to stay grounded in your

01:26:34.780 faith and what's real. Thank you everybody for watching. And as always, I'll talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - September 12, 2025

The Aftermath of the Charlie Kirk Assassination ｜ Guest： Johnathan Keeperman ｜ 9⧸12⧸25

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