Julie Kelly, senior writer at American Greatness, joins me to talk about her reporting on the January 6th, 2019 protests in Washington, D.C. and the Justice Department's response to the events that unfolded.
00:14:25.760So all of this is associated with Christopher Wray's unsubstantiated claim that he made
00:14:33.220back in 2019 that domestic violent extremists, i.e. Trump supporters, pose this lethal threat to
00:14:40.720the country, to the homeland. And there's just simply no data to support it. Any random act of
00:14:47.960violence, any sort of mass shooting, they could tie the shooter to the right in any way was the only
00:14:55.300evidence that the FBI could come up with to support what Christopher Wray said. So what they really did
00:15:01.120is started venting these so-called domestic violent extremists. That's what they did in the
00:15:06.880Whitmer Fednapping hoax, the plot that was supposed to be these white supremacist militiamen loyal to
00:15:13.100Donald Trump who wanted to abduct and possibly assassinate Gretchen Whitmer in 2020. Turns out
00:15:18.840there were more FBI informants and undercover agents in that plot than there were actual criminal
00:15:24.940defendants, which is kind of how it's shaping up with the Proud Boys. The only difference with the
00:15:29.940Proud Boys is this group actually existed. And so it looks like FBI informants were either run into the
00:15:35.780group or existing members were kind of flipped to become informants. What happened in Whitmer was the
00:15:41.740FBI was centrally involved in stitching this group together. A lot of the defendants didn't know each
00:15:46.980other before the FBI got involved, hiring numerous informants, including the lead informant Dan
00:15:54.060Chappell, who has paid more than $60,000 in cash and prizes for putting this group together,
00:15:59.940luring them to certain organized events like field training camps and even taking them on so-called
00:16:07.680reconnaissance missions by Whitmer's cottage. She knew about this for months. She had the FBI
00:16:14.880installed pole cameras at her summer cottage so they could capture so-called evidence, but she knew what
00:16:21.400was going on. We don't know exactly what she knew or, you know, how much she was communicating
00:16:25.700with the FBI, especially that field office up there. Coincidentally, the head of the Detroit
00:16:32.100FBI field office, after the arrests were announced in October of 2020, was promoted by Christopher Wray
00:16:38.880to take over the Washington field office, which then would have been, not only were they the lead
00:16:44.200investigative office looking into January 6th, but they would have had a very good handle on FBI
00:16:50.060informants, even the ones run out of various FBI field offices across the country.
00:16:54.160So that man, Steven DeAntuano got a big promotion just weeks before January 6th. January 6th committee
00:17:01.060never interviewed him, never spoke with him, nor did they talk to Christopher Wray, leaving so many
00:17:06.480open-ended questions about the FBI's, not just what the FBI did in January 6th, but it's kind of dry
00:17:11.760run and Whitmer fed napping hoax. So Wray is a Trump appointee, isn't he? Yes. So with that,
00:17:20.240you just have to ask the question, if you have an organization like the FBI or maybe the wider federal
00:17:27.980law enforcement system, where even a Republican president can't find an appointee capable of running
00:17:37.440that organization that won't specifically target and persecute the Republican voter base with the intention
00:17:47.540of creating a storyline about domestic terror with the intention of punishing political dissidents,
00:17:55.280what can you do in a situation like that where it seems like even those that might be selected
00:18:01.580by Republicans are captured by this machine?
00:18:04.840Well, I think he could have found easily other people to run the FBI. You know, Chris Wray is
00:18:13.740some law enforcement genius. He had been in private practice. I think he represented Chris Christie and
00:18:20.180Chris Christie is the one who recommended Chris Wray. It's not like he was a longtime FBI lawman or well
00:18:26.360respected or well regarded, kind of plucked out of obscurity. I think he worked in the FBI or DOJ years
00:18:32.480before. But there was a reason that Christopher Wray got installed there. And now we sort of know why.
00:18:39.360But and let's not forget who Christopher Wray's boss was, William Barr, the attorney general,
00:18:44.640also appointed by Donald Trump. And, you know, you had President Trump this week, really dismiss
00:18:50.920concerns that he, first of all, appointed Chris Wray, kept him in power, even as he clearly saw that
00:18:58.140Christopher Wray was making stuff up about domestic violent extremists, kind of trying to tie him to
00:19:02.760his own boss, Donald Trump. But when Donald Trump threatened to fire Chris Wray in the spring of
00:19:09.7402020, Bill Barr threatened to resign. Now, let's think about how great, let's think about that lost
00:19:16.860opportunity. Donald Trump should have fired both of them on the spot. His attorney general for threatening
00:19:23.260to walk. If Chris Wray clearly politicized FBI director was fired within Donald Trump's purview
00:19:31.900to fire the FBI director, that we could have gotten rid of both of them really helped clean up that
00:19:38.120Department of Justice, especially in 2020, when it was doing nothing with these riots, nothing to
00:19:44.060investigate election fraud. And then certainly turned around 180 degrees and then targeting Trump supporters
00:19:51.280for January 6th. So big lost opportunity. I think Donald Trump needs to explain that a little bit
00:19:57.960more and not dismiss it as another huge personnel mistake that he made in hiring and keeping Chris
00:20:04.000Wray. Yeah, I think that's got to be a really essential part of anyone moving forward who's going
00:20:09.720to contend for leadership in the GOP, understanding that policies are great, but personnel are the ones that
00:20:17.120deliver those policies. And all the legislation and, you know, rhetoric in the world doesn't change the fact
00:20:23.800that decisions are made, unfortunately, at these bureaucratic levels that have devastating impacts. And so if
00:20:30.040you're not putting a sufficient amount of careful attention into who holds those positions and why, then, you know,
00:20:38.600your own supporters could end up in jail for a very long time. Speaking of which, many of these January 6th defendants have been in jail for well over a year at this point, with no trial doesn't seem to be something that should be reasonable or legal, can't set bell or anything at this point. Why haven't more GOP congressmen and other representatives involved themselves? We've had a few, thankfully, but far too many of the
00:21:08.580too few seem willing to step in and talk about the violation of constitutional rights that's very obviously occurring with a political bias in this situation.
00:21:17.580Yeah, I think it's really outrageous the Republican silence through all of this. I mean, you don't deny someone bail when they're charged with obstruction of an official proceeding. You don't deny someone bail when they're charged with conspiracy, especially if they have no other violent charges with them, and they have no criminal record. But this is
00:21:38.560This has been going on since January of 2021. And Republicans just did not want to touch this. They didn't want to be seen as defending anyone who pepper sprayed a police officer on January 6th, even though they were throwing stun grenades, and dousing people with tear gas, punching them, kicking them, using rubber bullets against them, pepper balls against them. These are people standing outside, by the way.
00:22:03.500This unprovoked attack by D.C. Metro and Capitol Police.
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00:22:39.360If you spray somebody with pepper spray, a police officer who is attacking you, you should be denied bail for more than two years. You should be sentenced to prison for 71 months, like Julian Cater, the man who finally, after 18 months of being denied bail, suffering in the D.C. Gulag, was tormented into taking a plea deal, pleaded guilty to two counts of attacking Brian Sicknick and two officers and was sentenced to 71 months in jail.
00:23:05.200I mean, there's no case that's comparable. 32-year-old man, has no criminal record, and he's going to rot in jail for now more than six years because of this vengeful Department of Justice and these sadistic, I call them judges on the D.C. District Court.
00:23:22.600So, but what's more egregious of men who have been languishing behind bars in custody, indefinite incarceration, as their trials are pushed back, and some of these men, yes, have been in jail for more than two years, while the DOJ plays every trick in the book to either get, extract a plea deal out of them or push off their trial dates.
00:23:47.720And when Merrick Garland was asked about it this week by Representative Andrew Clyde to explain why you have these men, at least a dozen, who have been held for two years or more, you know, how is that constitutional? How is it legal?
00:24:02.520He, of course, he, of course, had no idea what he was talking about, didn't know who the defendants were, said something about Sixth Amendment rights, and, you know, go talk to the judge, basically.
00:24:12.580Well, okay, you can talk to the judge. The judge ultimately is the one who makes the decision, but it's your prosecutors, your Department of Justice, who puts together the motion seeking their pretrial detention, denying their release based on their involvement on January 6th.
00:24:27.520But Merrick Garland, as usual, had no response because, look, he's not really running the DOJ. That's Lisa Monaco, the Deputy Attorney General, and Matthew Graves, the D.C. U.S. Attorney, who's handling every single January 6th case.
00:24:40.280I mean, the Republican Party loves to talk about the importance of constitutional government. It's so important to defend these amendments. It's so important to make sure that, you know, the Constitution is upheld.
00:24:52.980But then when something very basic is threatening the constitutional rights of people who would be their supporters, they just don't seem to be found anywhere.
00:25:04.440And the question is, I guess at this point, do you even have constitutional rights if no politician, if no representative, or very few of them, is willing to step up and defend and put pressure to make sure that those rights are followed through?
00:25:19.960I mean, you really have to wonder if the Republicans aren't willing to put pressure on this because, I don't know, they're worried about not being seen as the party of law and order, or they're just so cowed by the media narrative that any association with this will just destroy their ability to garner donors.
00:25:39.140Then what is the value of these people if they're not willing to push for the rights of their voters when they need them most?
00:25:45.560You know, this is one thing I ask repeatedly, and I still do.
00:25:50.100What is the point of a political party who refuses to defend their own supporters, their own voters, when they need them the most?
00:25:58.840You know, why are you talking about grocery prices?
00:26:02.000Why are you talking incessantly about school board meetings?
00:26:59.880Because they've been maligned by the New York Times or Rachel Maddow or Chris Ray says that they are members of the Proud Boys are domestic terrorists.
00:28:04.180So shame on pretty much everyone in the GOP for their silence and their cowardice and continuing to say nothing as Matthew Graves threatens to round up another thousand defendants.
00:28:18.640Yeah, I think it's a really important point.
00:28:20.940And you can see it's only getting more ridiculous.
00:28:23.340You have people like Douglas Mackey on trial for posting memes.
00:28:28.740You have the FBI field offices talking about how you need to watch out for traditional Catholics who go to Latin mass.
00:28:36.500It's very clear that we have a security state apparatus that is out of control, highly politicized, and is looking to expand its purview into almost every possible part of American political life.
00:28:51.540And it really feels in a lot of ways like it was really important to bring the war on terror home, right?
00:28:58.740We kind of wrapped it up abroad, and now it's time to turn that security apparatus on the American people because I think it's very clear to a certain part of the American elite
00:29:13.160that they're not doing a very good job, that people aren't going to be fans of the results that they're producing,
00:29:19.840and they're losing the ability to kind of manufacture the kind of democratic outcomes that they want.
00:29:25.220And so it's really important to send a chilling message when it comes to political speech and in just basic involvement in civic and public life,
00:29:34.460that if you have the wrong political opinions, we have all these neat toys and all these techniques and legal apparatus that we've set up around something like the war on terror,
00:29:44.580and we're more than happy to turn it now and unleash it on you, and don't worry, the political party who's supposed to represent you, the one that's supposed to restrain us,
00:29:53.580they have no interest in fighting back against this either.
00:29:57.340Right, exactly. You know, when I wrote the subtitle for my book that was published over a year ago, and it was January 6th,
00:30:04.740how Democrats used the Capitol protests to launch a war on terror against the political right,
00:30:09.520I remember my publisher and I were like, well, it might kind of be over the top as well, it's actually happening,
00:30:15.180but it might sound a little crazy that that's it. But here we are, that's exactly what's happening.
00:30:20.820Every surveillance tool, you know, they're using the Joint Terrorism Task Force to investigate and arrest these people,
00:30:29.220even on misdemeanors. They have full cooperation with American companies.
00:30:37.060I just read a criminal complaint that was filed against a woman, probably in her late 50s, early 60s,
00:30:44.380who went into the Capitol building for 15 minutes. She went in there with her elderly mother,
00:30:49.780they walked around and left, they committed no violence whatsoever. But they got her bank records from JP Morgan,
00:30:56.960they got her cell phone records from Verizon. Just like in every other case, they got social media activity
00:31:02.800from Facebook to build this complaint against a woman who is facing misdemeanor trespassing offenses.
00:31:12.540So it's not a joke when we say that this is a war on terror, because you have every powerful interest
00:31:18.220working together collaboratively to brand these individuals as domestic terrorists. And to your point,
00:31:27.040I think it's also because, you know, where is the war on terror? Where did it go? They certainly don't want
00:31:32.420to divert those resources to the southern border, where we know people have crossed over who are on
00:31:37.320watch lists. So, you know, they need to put these resources somewhere, and they're putting them
00:31:43.900against Trump supporters and continuing to do so. This investigation and prosecution will go on
00:31:50.060for years until hopefully the next Republican president, if he takes office and shuts down some
00:31:56.780of these offices, dismantles the FBI. But this is a running campaign theme and a running crusade to
00:32:04.260criminalize political dissent in the Biden regime. Yeah, and you're really worried about even if a
00:32:09.800Republican would take up that cause at this point. I think it's got to be essential for everyone
00:32:15.120involved to hold anyone, again, who's interested in pursuing, you know, leadership in the GOP to make
00:32:21.180this a top priority and something that they're very clear about the need to happen. And this seems to
00:32:28.300kind of show a wider concerning trend in just the Western world and liberal democracies in general.
00:32:34.600We see the actions of somebody like Justin Trudeau in Canada, who's willing to steal the bank accounts
00:32:40.460of not only protesters, but their families. In many cases, it seems like many of these states are more than
00:32:49.340willing to get up there and lecture Vladimir Putin and, you know, any, you know, dictators and other
00:32:56.060nations about human rights abuses, but they're more than willing to commit very similar abuses, you know,
00:33:02.720with just slightly softer power in their own countries and pretend like there's a significant moral
00:33:08.640difference from their security state and ones that they demonize across the globe.
00:33:16.240That's exactly right. I mean, look, when you turn powerful surveillance tools against American
00:33:21.980citizens, when you hold political prisoners in a special prison in the nation's capital, set aside just
00:33:29.560for political dissidents, when you strip them of their rights, when you separate them from their families,
00:33:35.600when you deny their due process rights, when you keep evidence from them, when you bankrupt them,
00:33:42.700when banks, you know, banks are dropping, have dropped people discharged on misdemeanors,
00:33:47.480when you put them on a no-fly list, basically, a domestic terror list where they have to spend hours at the
00:33:54.200airport going through multiple levels of security so they can be humiliated in front of their fellow
00:34:01.080countrymen. Tell me why we have to worry about Putin. Like, he's probably looking at what we're doing
00:34:08.960and thinking, wow, wish I could get away with that. I mean, that's why I think he mocked sort of the
00:34:14.380political prisoners in January 6th. So anyone who thinks that anything Vladimir Putin is doing
00:34:21.020is a bigger threat to what our own Department of Justice is doing. They're just not paying attention
00:34:26.620attention to what's happening. And so I think you're absolutely right. I mean, the biggest threat
00:34:32.160to our country and how this is all, you know, unraveling so quickly is coming right out of the
00:34:38.700powers that be in Washington. So I wanted to ask you one more thing that I think is really important
00:34:43.620for people. They're very worried right now. There's a lot of people, you know, you saw the call with
00:34:50.100Donald Trump and the possibility of asking people to protest on his behalf, whether or not he would
00:34:57.540get charged in New York. However you feel about Donald Trump's action there. The call from a lot
00:35:03.260of people, myself included, is you have to be careful about public political action at this point.
00:35:09.280You have to be worried about exercising your very basic constitutional right to freedom of assembly
00:35:16.760because it's very clear that you have a government apparatus that is highly invested in trying to
00:35:23.660drive bad actors out and manufacture situations that they can then use to slander political dissidents
00:35:32.080and criminalize their acts. And when you're in a situation like this where you just don't know how many
00:35:39.540FBI agents or informants or whoever else from the government might be trying to shape the events,
00:35:45.660try to drive things to a particular outcome, what can people do? How should people view political
00:35:52.380protests in an environment where they're not sure if the government is actively involved in trying to
00:35:58.460manufacture an excuse to punish them for their disagreement with the regime?
00:36:03.220Well, I think that's what was so instructive about seeing the outcry when Donald Trump did post on
00:36:11.980on truth social about this impending. It's not happening. It looks like criminal indictment in New York
00:36:18.580and calling on people to protest. And you had the entire news media, Democrats, you know,
00:36:25.640never Trump Republicans are saying, look, he's calling for another insurrection. He wants another attack on,
00:36:31.700you know, a government building. He didn't say peacefully protest. He said protest. You know,
00:36:36.940he's trying to gin up another January 6th. So the anvil of January 6th, not just the horrific
00:36:43.640things that are happening related to the prosecution, but the bigger anvil is to halt
00:36:50.180political protest and political activity, things that, and of course, peaceful, because that's how
00:36:57.740the right acts, right? But now the right is very wary of it, of course, to your point about being
00:37:05.680lured into certain areas or having agitators and provocateurs there, or even being on group chats
00:37:13.780with people. You know, this is how they got the Proud Boys and other people. They got them into these
00:37:19.040encrypted group chats and whatever that chatter is, even though it means nothing, that's the overwhelming
00:37:25.000bulk of evidence against these defendants. So it is very terrifying times. And so we'll see how this
00:37:33.020plays out in 2024. You see Trump still holding his rallies. Other people are going to rally. But if
00:37:37.580there is something that people want to protest again, they will immediately be condemned by the left
00:37:44.760and the news media as being, you know, want to be insurrectionists. So this label is going to be
00:37:50.520around for a very long time. Yeah. It really does feel like the softer, slower version of a, of a
00:37:56.360communist, you know, police state where no one knows what the rules are. No one's clear about what their
00:38:04.020rights are. And at any time attempting to exercise something that you thought was just a basic
00:38:09.540constitutional right, everyone was entitled to, could immediately end up putting yourself in a situation
00:38:15.880where you're going to face years in prison without trial simply for being present at something that
00:38:22.560the media or the government was able to manufacture. And it's just a terrifying situation for a lot of
00:38:28.220people. Very difficult. I understand a lot of people who want to take popular action, want to be out
00:38:32.400and exercising their rights, but just, you have to, you have to understand the situation you're in
00:38:38.240before you make that decision for yourself. I think that's incredibly important. All right, Julie,
00:38:43.040well, I really appreciate talking with you. Could you tell everybody about your book and where to
00:38:48.640find your great reporting? Thanks so much. So my book is available at Amazon and all of my work can
00:38:55.240be found at American Greatness and greatness.com. I'm on Twitter a lot, as you know, posting updates
00:39:01.560from trial proceedings or new motions that are coming out. And then my own reporting. So that's
00:39:07.400Julie underscore Kelly two on Twitter. Excellent, guys, make sure that you're checking out all of
00:39:12.920Julie's excellent work. Thank you for coming by everybody. If it's your first time on the channel,
00:39:17.860please go ahead and subscribe. And of course, if you want to catch these broadcasts as podcasts,
00:39:22.600make sure that you subscribe to the Oren McIntyre show on your favorite podcast platform. Once again,
00:39:28.780everybody, thanks for coming by. And as always, I'll talk to you next time.