The Auron MacIntyre Show - The Danger of Cultural Universalism ｜ Guest： Wade Stotts

00:00:00.720 Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I've got a great

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00:00:52.920 today. That's Oren, A-U-R-O-N, blazetv.com slash Oren. All right, guys, we know that cultural

00:01:03.080 relativism was a big thing for a long time, right? Oh, well, all the cultures are the

00:01:07.460 same. Ultimately, you're going to be able to look at one culture or another and they

00:01:11.720 might have some differences. They might have some different ways they approach things,

00:01:15.560 but you can't judge them. Everything's contextual to that culture. But when it comes to the internet

00:01:21.640 and when it comes to our commerce and when it comes to our communication, we seem to have a

00:01:25.180 different approach. We actually act as if every culture is exactly the same. They don't have this

00:01:30.080 differentiation. There is no relativism. They all kind of treat honesty. They all kind of treat

00:01:35.080 the type of morality you should approach business with the same. And ultimately, that's proving not

00:01:41.060 to be true, especially as we look at our trade relationships. We look overseas and countries like

00:01:45.740 India and China. We recognize that very big cultural differences make it very hard to actually

00:01:51.300 do business. And in many cases, this is turning a lot of our relationships into disasters in the

00:01:56.940 favor of countries that ultimately do not value the same things that we do. Wade Stotts is a

00:02:02.820 hilarious YouTube video creator. He just had a great video discussing the problem of honesty between

00:02:09.200 cultures. Wade, thanks for coming on, man.

00:02:11.920 Wade Stotts, Jr.: Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me, Aaron.

00:02:14.060 Of course, no. You did a great job digging up this study we'll jump into in a second. And it reveals a lot

00:02:19.240 of important insights that I think only become more relevant in this moment. We're talking about

00:02:24.440 mass migration. We know that's a huge issue, but there's a whole nother issue of the internet.

00:02:29.420 You really pointed out that kind of this road for the barbarians to come in is going to be there,

00:02:34.140 whether you close the border or not. And I think that's something people have to start thinking

00:02:37.900 about in depth. But before we get to all that, guys, let's hear from today's sponsor.

00:02:42.300 This episode of The Oren McIntyre Show is proudly sponsored by Consumers Research.

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00:03:35.380 All right. So, Wade, like I said, you did this great video, and all of your stuff is good and

00:03:42.280 concise and punchy, and it's something that you can share with friends and family on Facebook and

00:03:46.640 stuff like that, which is why it's so great. It's very normie-friendly because of the comedy

00:03:51.720 involved. But you bring up a really important point. You dug up this study. It was from 2016,

00:03:57.740 from the Journey of Economic Behavioral Organization, about the honesty and beliefs

00:04:02.440 of 15 different countries and how that interacts with their economic growth. Could you just give

00:04:08.740 a little bit for people who aren't familiar with the study? What are some of the basic things it

00:04:12.740 revealed? Yeah. So, basically, I'll give a little intro to why I was interested in it, maybe give

00:04:19.780 some context. So, I saw all these videos of people decrying all of the AI slop that was filling up

00:04:26.680 Facebook and deceiving people into things. So, there were like shrimp Jesus things and just all these

00:04:32.040 kind of bizarre things that were getting huge engagement on Facebook. And all the videos

00:04:39.380 were just sort of saying, what in the world, who are these people who keep posting this? And they

00:04:44.240 were just sort of bemused at the psychology of the person who would be okay with just posting a bunch

00:04:50.180 of fake stuff or a bunch of engagement. And I wanted to get into that and kind of think about

00:04:54.020 what the kind of... It takes a lot of work to do this stuff and what kind of people would be,

00:04:59.120 again, putting a lot of effort in with a baseline assumption that it's okay to lie constantly.

00:05:04.960 So, anyway, what this study was, was it grabbed 15 people from 15 different countries, nationals of

00:05:10.060 those countries, and had them participate in two studies, one of which was two experiments,

00:05:15.480 one of which was you take a quiz where it's possible to cheat. And then the second one was a

00:05:20.380 coin flip. So, if you flip the coin, and then if you got heads, you got a piece of chocolate.

00:05:23.960 If you got tails, I guess they just smacked you or something. But I didn't say.

00:05:28.220 But the other... So, basically, they were just testing how much these different people from

00:05:33.900 different countries would deceive in order to get some kind of reward. And yeah, there was a huge

00:05:41.180 spread of things. Again, I think I quote in the video that people from Great Britain tended to

00:05:47.400 deceive at like a 3.6% level. And then people from China were deceiving at like a 70% level.

00:05:53.300 So, there were huge gaps. Some of the gaps were smaller than that one. But the basic takeaway

00:06:00.660 from that is that, yes, there is dishonesty everywhere, but it doesn't happen everywhere

00:06:05.260 equally.

00:06:07.340 And it's so important because right now, we're in this discussion about economic competition,

00:06:13.940 right? Like tariffs, should we be protecting our own industries? Is it all about a free market?

00:06:19.520 Should we recognize these libertarian principles of trade? Or is there something

00:06:24.500 to protectionism? Can we bring in a bunch of workers from India, a bunch of students from China?

00:06:31.060 They work harder, we're told. They're so much better than Americans. In fact, former presidential

00:06:37.140 candidates will make long posts about how superior his culture is to America. If only America would stop

00:06:42.660 watching Saved by the Bell and do the kind of things he does, then we might start to get the

00:06:46.800 kind of results that he gets in the country that he's no longer in. And so, we have this problem

00:06:52.840 where people want to compare what we are doing in the United States to other countries. And they look

00:06:58.800 at India and they look at China. And they say, oh, well, I saw a raw number, right? Like I saw that

00:07:03.540 Chinese students are getting into these organizations more and either getting into these

00:07:08.420 universities more. I saw Indian workers are getting this number of degrees and that number of degrees.

00:07:16.020 I'm thinking about the type of trade we should be doing. We could probably just have free trade

00:07:20.700 because ultimately we're going to design something and then they're going to buy it. And that's just

00:07:24.520 the way that it works. But actually, it turns out that if you have a differentiation of about 67%

00:07:31.440 in honesty, it makes quite a bit of difference when you're actually looking at those measures. Those

00:07:37.080 measures become less and less objective when you recognize that the people creating, collecting

00:07:41.920 the data have a high degree of interest in lying to you and have a high degree of interest in a bias

00:07:47.800 and they have a culture that allows that, that encourages that, in fact, would think you are a

00:07:51.960 sucker or stupid for not engaging in that kind of behavior. And so, what we start to realize is,

00:07:58.480 well, maybe the degrees that Indian workers get aren't worth as much as the ones in the United States.

00:08:05.060 Maybe the test scores from Chinese students aren't as accurate as the ones we get in the United States.

00:08:11.200 Maybe we can't have free trade relationships with countries who make stealing our intellectual

00:08:17.060 property the key building block of their economy. And all of a sudden, these assumptions of kind of

00:08:24.060 this classical liberal, we're all going to play by the same rules. We boiled everything down to this,

00:08:28.780 you know, objective understanding of how trade should work and how relations work.

00:08:32.920 All of a sudden, that starts to crumble because you recognize that the people involved are radically

00:08:38.140 different and those metrics don't actually help you understand the situation.

00:08:42.980 Yeah. And one other takeaway from the study that I think was a key one is that honesty travels with

00:08:49.140 trust. And so, as, as these people are engaging with people, if you went to,

00:08:54.060 if you, if you, if you went to a, the study itself, it talked about each of the honest,

00:09:00.140 most honest countries tended to think of other people, even people who were of different nationalities

00:09:05.300 as being honest at some level, or at least as honest as they are. And then that the dishonest

00:09:12.280 countries generally were thinking of other people as being dishonest. So everybody, I think there's a,

00:09:17.940 there's a great video I enjoyed from a guy named Giant Bhandari. I think I'm saying his name wrong,

00:09:22.900 but it was called Understanding India. And he talked about how there are, when he moved from India to

00:09:29.220 the UK, the, the concept of being truthful in every interaction was something that was totally foreign

00:09:35.960 to him and something that he had to learn and learn to value in a sense. And that that was, again,

00:09:42.400 a foreign value. And another thing that he says in there is that he, in saying, so he has a bunch

00:09:48.160 of employees now and in interacting with those employees, he is still feels bothered that he

00:09:54.020 can just tell somebody to do their job and then they just do it. So he doesn't have, he feels like

00:09:59.100 he has left out, he's left out his part of the interaction because he hasn't offered a bribe in order

00:10:04.180 to get the job done. And so again, these things are basic fundamental cultural differences. And in one

00:10:11.840 sense, it's, it's a compliment to the honest cultures and the trusting cultures that they

00:10:16.040 tend to think well of other people. But it does leave plenty of room for anybody to take advantage

00:10:21.700 of that honesty and that trust. It's, it's a tragic thing that the, the openness and the thing that

00:10:27.540 the, the openness and the trust and the honesty that is a virtue of, of these societies, these more

00:10:33.820 honest countries is the, the very thing that will be taken advantage of. Again, if we're not careful

00:10:40.220 and, and it doesn't, and as you said earlier, it doesn't just have to do with something that's

00:10:44.480 happening through trade. I think Trump has pointed out in many ways, how that's an important piece,

00:10:48.700 but as much of our lives is now lived online and these barriers are breaking down there,

00:10:55.200 then we're just, the, the safety is we're, we're not as safe as we used to be. And we're not as safe

00:11:01.140 as we might think we are. I'll say this real quick that if you think of culture and people tend to

00:11:08.560 think of cultural differences as being mainly on the surface. So they think of language and dress

00:11:13.640 basically as being the big ones, maybe food. But if you're on the internet and somebody is speaking

00:11:18.980 your language, however, roughly and their avatar, it looks a lot like your avatar because you're both

00:11:25.460 maybe anonymous or something like that. Then it's, it makes sense that at some level, you're going to

00:11:29.920 assume quite a bit about that person and that you're operating on the same basic level.

00:11:34.020 Um, but again, the, uh, that, that trust, the trust that you, that you have and is the very

00:11:40.260 thing that very often gets taken advantage of. It's why, it's why older people, uh, tend to get

00:11:44.920 scammed. I talked about that a little bit in the video as well. Yeah. You know, we, we've introduced

00:11:50.580 the term high trust society, I think several times, I think a lot of people will be familiar with this

00:11:56.340 concept, but the amount of social friction that is just not necessary when you have a high trust

00:12:03.360 society gets taken for granted very easily. You have a hard time understanding any other way that

00:12:09.520 that works. Uh, and the answer is in many countries, it doesn't like the level of coordination. You

00:12:15.160 enjoy the fact that it's relatively easy for you to move in and out of spaces. You feel secure in your

00:12:20.820 person. Most of the time you feel like financial transactions are reliable and you don't need to

00:12:25.580 double check anything or ask for special, special favors. You know, the price on the shelf is the

00:12:30.620 price on the shelf. You know, you, these, these are just basic assumptions or the item will be on

00:12:35.020 the shelf and you're not going to have to have some guy unlock it from behind, you know, five padlocks

00:12:39.420 and a, and some plasteel. Like these are things that we just kind of take for granted, but of course

00:12:44.660 that's not true at all. Right. And, and the reason that many societies cannot function is because they

00:12:51.480 simply do not have that level of trust built in. And it's not an accident. It's not like they just

00:12:56.080 didn't get the technology for, they didn't, they didn't get the upgrade on the tech tree for, you

00:13:00.660 know, uh, to, to be more trustworthy. There there's something deeper into it. You know, my, my buddy

00:13:06.520 worked, uh, you know, he's in Afghanistan, uh, worked with, uh, the, the, uh, military there had to go

00:13:14.260 around and basically bribe warlords, not to kill American soldiers. That was his job more or less

00:13:19.120 like, Hey, we brought you seven more goats. Can you stop killing our guys? And one of the things he

00:13:24.720 would do is if he went into an area where they needed to like make a relationship with a tribal

00:13:29.640 leader, he would walk up and he would offer them money, uh, because that's, it's transactional.

00:13:34.360 That's exactly what they're looking for. And the first thing that the regional leader would do

00:13:40.080 is he would build a road to his dad's house. It didn't matter if like, there's no plumbing.

00:13:46.480 It didn't matter if there's no water. It like, it doesn't matter if no one even had a car to drive

00:13:52.700 on the road to his dad's house. The first thing he did was take the money he received

00:13:58.200 to help his community and he spent it to pave the road to its dad's house. And not only was that

00:14:04.320 acceptable, that was expected. Had he done anything else with the money than his own people,

00:14:10.500 the ones who were being hurt by the fact that he didn't like immediately install irrigation or,

00:14:15.280 you know, plumbing or, or, or a hospital. Yeah. Like the, the people who would have directly

00:14:19.540 benefited from him properly using the money instead wanted him to use it to build the road

00:14:26.020 to his dad's house, dad's house, because that is the cultural expectation. And that's why they don't

00:14:30.600 get running water. And that's why they don't have, you know, cultural organization, but it is the way

00:14:35.280 they understand this. Right. And so when you take a culture like that and you just say, well, come on

00:14:41.420 in, you know, or plug into the internet, like that stuff doesn't just go away. They don't suddenly

00:14:46.080 just reorient themselves to like this utilitarian managerial understanding of infrastructure and

00:14:52.160 distribution. Like they just start pillaging you to build a road to their dad's house.

00:14:57.080 Yeah. Yeah. And, and Samuel Huntington, who I know we're both fans of talked a lot about how

00:15:03.000 people tend to equate modernization with Westernization as if, if you build the same kind

00:15:09.300 of technologies that you're, then you have the same basic value structure. And we're all,

00:15:14.500 we're all using the same, uh, infrastructure. Uh, and so therefore we've, we've all transformed,

00:15:20.400 but really that's not the case. And, and you can use the same, uh, the same technology and have,

00:15:25.480 again, basic, basic differences in how to understand how to use that. Um, again, that,

00:15:31.020 that, uh, that talk from giant, uh, giant Bandari, I keep saying his name wrong, but, um, in there,

00:15:36.240 I, I pulled up a quote. He says, uh, he says, Western people think the 10 commandments just exist

00:15:41.260 in nature. They do not. Civilization does not exist in nature. Um, and, and, in that talk,

00:15:47.320 you can sort of feel his, um, I recommend everybody watch it, but you can feel his, uh,

00:15:53.980 frustration. Yes. With the place where he came from, but also at some level, his frustration

00:15:58.280 and having to explain this to Westerners who are at a basic level, can't get it through their heads

00:16:04.600 that somebody thinks differently than they do, or has a basic difference in understanding again,

00:16:09.420 because he, he's now lived in both of these worlds. Um, but I know another theme, uh, that

00:16:15.020 you've talked about a lot is that the leftists not being able to have a theory of mind of even

00:16:19.040 a conservative. Um, and if, if these people are not people who can think, oh, there, there are

00:16:25.100 people in my country who might think differently and have different sets of values, then what luck

00:16:29.620 do they have or what chance do they have imagining somebody across the world who has different heroes

00:16:34.380 than you, a different religion from you? Uh, and, and there's, there's a much larger gap there,

00:16:39.420 but if we think again, that we can bridge that technologically, or that we can bridge that with

00:16:43.740 some kind of mechanism, uh, but we just can't, it's a, it's a different sort of thing.

00:16:49.900 So the, uh, the big implication obviously for us right now is mass immigration. That's what

00:16:57.780 everybody's thinking about. We've, the Trump administration just did a big raid in, uh, Miami,

00:17:02.020 I believe it was, uh, you know, there, there's obviously a lot of kind of, uh, contestation

00:17:06.960 between the judicial branch and the executive as to how you can carry out all of these, uh,

00:17:12.460 deportations. The one thing that no one can argue, and I don't see credit Trump getting enough

00:17:16.700 credit for this one is how much the border crossings have dropped, right? Like the entry

00:17:22.220 into, uh, the actual illegal immigration into the United States is much, much, much lower. Now

00:17:28.060 that's not exactly hard when the previous president was literally shoveling people

00:17:32.000 in by the plane full from Haiti, but you know, you cleared the bar and that's, what's important

00:17:37.180 ultimately. So, uh, that's a big deal. However, what you point out in the, uh, in the video,

00:17:44.640 which I think was really interesting and something I've harped on several times is the implication

00:17:49.940 that comes with the internet. Uh, because for instance, one of the things that you pointed

00:17:54.480 out in the study that I think a lot of people might not have initially guessed that they should

00:17:58.480 have would have been that actually what raises the level of honesty is Protestantism. Protestant

00:18:05.240 Christianity specifically increases the level of trust inside a society. But now we're in a scenario

00:18:12.200 where our society, which as, uh, we talked about, uh, with, um, uh, Samuel Huntington, it, you know,

00:18:20.400 is, is an Anglo-Protestant society at its core. That's what he identifies it as its core.

00:18:25.000 Ultimately, um, you know, the, we're connected to all of these civilizations that just do not have

00:18:31.080 that. Like you said, the, the guy's like, oh, the 10 commandments is not just written into every

00:18:34.600 civilization. Actually, like most of us don't do this. We don't know this. We don't practice this,

00:18:39.000 that kind of thing. And so now we have these roads that are just open to barbarians all the time,

00:18:44.760 right? We can, we can shut down the borders. Maybe we can even use the tariffs, but ultimately we're

00:18:50.960 still constantly interacting with foreign cultures that are not Protestant that have no, uh, uh, you

00:18:57.440 know, level of trust comparative to the United States. And that's just a constant wave of foreign

00:19:04.020 interference, foreign, uh, standards, uh, foreign impact. And as you point out in the video, the

00:19:09.640 ability of people to steal money from old people, you know, scam calls and, you know, from India and

00:19:13.500 all these places constantly flooding in. And there's just no way to escape it. Even if we solve the

00:19:18.860 immigration problem, 100%. Yeah. And, and the, the religious point is key in the study. And I'm

00:19:25.320 glad you brought that up because the, if, if we try to define, I mean, we're, we're both also, um,

00:19:32.360 Carlisle fans. So like, we know that the heroes that we have, the heroes that we, uh, that a society

00:19:37.960 is built around are definitional. Uh, and so how much more are the, the gods, how much more are the

00:19:43.340 religious elements? Um, and so I, I believe in a big way that culture is downstream from the cult

00:19:49.220 is downstream from the religious perspectives of the people. So there's a, there's a basic,

00:19:53.740 uh, devotion to the idea that yes, there is, uh, in, in Christianity and product Christianity,

00:19:58.940 there's a devotion to a God being other, that the standards being higher than my standards and that

00:20:04.860 my standards and the legal standards around me are supposed to, uh, adhere to, or, uh, supposed to

00:20:10.380 honor God and that God's supposed to be pleased with that. Um, and it's just a different sort of

00:20:15.220 thing when you have, again, a entirely different, uh, religious structure. And we've talked a lot

00:20:19.260 about India, but the same is true. And China is represented at a very high level in a lot of the

00:20:24.000 dishonesty here as well. And so the, their religious structure is going to be again, very different,

00:20:29.120 going to value very different things. Um, so yeah, I, I, the, the conversation you had with Ron Dodson,

00:20:34.400 I think is, is very relevant here. Um, that the religious, religious pluralism or any of that sort of

00:20:40.100 stuff, it does tend to, uh, change what the public space, what the public space looks like. Um, so

00:20:46.880 the, these physical public spaces are obviously manifest and the digital public space. Yeah. If,

00:20:52.320 if you have, we, we've decried for a long time, the idea of a John Lennon vision of like, you know,

00:20:58.260 no, no countries and, uh, no heaven, no hell. Um, but the technology that we build tends to reflect

00:21:04.680 our vision of what humanity is and what we, what, where success comes from and where growth comes

00:21:11.140 from. And so if, if we can have, okay, well, um, yes, John Lennon was wrong in the physical world,

00:21:18.040 but do we think that he was right in the digital world? Is there, or do we think that that's going

00:21:22.320 to work out and spoiler alert? No, it doesn't. And it starts to feel a lot like this. So as other

00:21:27.420 countries again, modernize and are not Westernizing, then yes, that tension ends up coming, uh, coming

00:21:33.680 into play. And so, yeah, the, the most vulnerable, the most trusting, uh, as you mentioned, the older

00:21:37.780 people tend to be taken advantage of at a much higher level. And that's a tragedy that, uh, that

00:21:43.120 is on is, is avoidable, but it's only avoidable if we have a clear vision of how people work.

00:21:49.920 We hope you're enjoying your air Canada flight. Rocky's vacation. Here we come. Whoa. Is this

00:21:56.140 economy? Free beer, wine, and snacks. Sweet. Fast, free wifi means I can make dinner reservations

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00:22:11.020 Nice. On behalf of Air Canada, nice travels.

00:22:15.280 Wi-Fi available to aeroplane members on Equip Flight sponsored by Bell. Conditions apply.

00:22:18.740 CRCanada.com. It's really interesting because we have a, like a microcosm example on Twitter right now,

00:22:25.620 uh, so people who are not Twitter addicts may not know. Uh, but on Twitter, uh, they turned on the

00:22:31.560 monetization feature, right? You can make money posting on Twitter. Very nice, right? You get to

00:22:35.920 make money for something you were already doing for free. And it, you know, it's, it's nice to get that

00:22:39.900 extra change in your pocket and everything. It's, it's a decent amount of money. Uh, if you got a

00:22:44.680 decent sized account in the U S but if you even have a, uh, like a, a minor account, uh, in, in India,

00:22:51.700 the money you're making there is like multiple times, the average monthly salary, uh, of the

00:22:57.840 average person in India. And so there are entire farms of people who go onto Twitter and they just

00:23:04.940 post the same like garbage interaction stuff. Like good morning. Good morning. How are you? Good

00:23:10.120 morning. Hope you have a great day. Hope you have a great day. Oh, did you, did you see this rock?

00:23:15.140 Do you like this rock? Is this a good rock? Like I'm like, you think I'm joking, but this,

00:23:19.080 you can find just reams and reams, just tens of thousands of posts constantly, constantly,

00:23:25.100 because all you need is interactions from other people who are subscribed to Twitter and it starts

00:23:30.520 adding up. And so these guys are just, you know, yeah, they're making 500 or a thousand dollars a

00:23:36.700 month, but in India, that's an amazing salary like that, that you cannot make that money at a real job.

00:23:43.260 And so you look at this platform, as you point out that everyone's using and we think, oh, well,

00:23:48.220 we're all using the same platform. So we're playing by the same rules, but because that platform is

00:23:52.380 open to people in India or any other country that wants to pull the scam, that's the Indian ones are

00:23:57.220 the most noticeable because of the volume, but you could pull this from anywhere. So, you know,

00:24:01.560 theoretically, and ultimately what you end up is a scenario where the payments for everyone else

00:24:06.640 have plummeted because the distribution is going wider to all these scam accounts that are just

00:24:12.240 pulling in money from posting. Uh, and so you have a system that was pretty cool for a while.

00:24:18.580 It was benefiting people, but because you can't trust the people on the platform, even though

00:24:23.500 they're using the same platform as you, they're making, they're interacting with the same technology

00:24:27.660 as you, you could run it in the West one way, but you can't run it as long as people from other

00:24:33.400 countries have access to it because their understanding of fairness and trust and gaming. The system

00:24:38.020 is radically different. Yeah. I was talking to a friend of mine who, um, said that every time he

00:24:44.240 sees this kind of, um, spam account stuff, he he's, he's a computer guy. And so he knows like, you know,

00:24:49.740 I could actually create one of these and I could, I know formulas that I could just make an AI thing

00:24:54.780 that just spits out this thing. And then a bunch of people reply in a certain way. He's like, I know

00:25:00.600 that I could do that. But again, that weird little Protestant work ethic thing pop kicks in. And that the

00:25:06.900 important thing, I think, again, the thing that I'm trying to harp on and the thing I'm trying to

00:25:10.140 make clear in that video that I made and now is that that little, uh, I shouldn't be doing this

00:25:16.160 is not something that everybody has on the planet. And that's why certain people, again, that's why,

00:25:21.840 uh, people are okay with cheating certain ways. Uh, and in the video, I talk about how, yes, there's,

00:25:27.240 there's cheating here and there's, there's lying here. And the same is true of, uh, of the UK. Again,

00:25:32.500 there were examples in the study, but the, it's tends to be like a sideshow. We, we tend to think

00:25:37.920 of, uh, you know, the scam artists, like one of my, one of my favorite movies is house of games

00:25:42.120 by David Mamet. It's a, it's a con man movie. I love that stuff. Um, but it's, it, when you watch

00:25:47.500 it, it's, it's, uh, sort of, we, we watch it the same way. Again, I'd say in the video about like,

00:25:52.400 we watch TLC shows about, uh, you know, 600 pound people or like, Hey, these, uh, midgets,

00:25:58.900 you know, arguing with each other and they're married to full size people or whatever. So

00:26:03.460 it's like, we, we see it as like, Oh, that's, it's weird. It's, it's off. It's like, it's

00:26:08.480 attractive, but at some level we're like, yeah, but I would never live like that because again,

00:26:12.560 I have a little bit of a, a, a conscience creep that, that comes up, uh, with, with some

00:26:17.600 of the, uh, just again, the instincts that are built up, but those, those instincts again,

00:26:22.080 are not necessarily, you can call them natural instincts, but those instincts are things that

00:26:26.520 again have been cultivated and that we should be grateful for at some level. And I don't want the

00:26:30.980 internet to be a place where I have to constantly have my neck muscles tensed. Uh, and I don't want

00:26:35.540 the same thing for my kids. Like I don't want to train my kids and go, Hey, uh, anytime you go onto

00:26:40.480 this, this medium, you're going to have to be on guard 100% constantly. And it's really difficult

00:26:46.520 to trust anybody on the other side of a screen. I don't want that. Uh, but sadly, if you want to

00:26:51.560 exist in the, again, the open web, the, uh, the, that, that sort of environment, the dark forest,

00:26:57.280 like I talked about the video in the video, you do have to have that. Uh, and I think there are other

00:27:01.280 ways of going, but that's sadly the way things are right now.

00:27:05.840 Well, and to be fair, the, you know, uh, Silicon Valley and the internet have gotten away with

00:27:11.800 all kinds of stuff. Uh, they absolutely should not have because we are too trusting on the internet,

00:27:17.100 right? Like they own all of our data. They have tracked everything. You know, you, you're,

00:27:21.880 you're addicted to 19 different dopamine outputs that like children should never be subjected to.

00:27:27.180 And yet like every seven year old with an iPad is just slamming it. Like there's no tomorrow.

00:27:31.620 So, you know, the, the general naivete, I think of, uh, people approaching technology and the internet

00:27:38.420 is, is its own problem. And I say, this is somebody who grew up as the internet was like being a thing,

00:27:44.320 right? Like this, I was the guy who was, uh, you know, getting on the internet when it was barely,

00:27:49.940 uh, you know, you were just kind of logging in and, you know, it was the wild west and

00:27:53.980 all these kinds of things. And we've had different periods, you know, things were

00:27:58.300 more curated behind, uh, say America online. And then things kind of broke out free a little bit

00:28:04.700 and everything's kind of coalesced back into being behind these apps, Facebook and Twitter and all

00:28:09.240 these things. You know, a lot of, uh, businesses at this point, local businesses don't even bother

00:28:13.860 having a, uh, a normal internet page. They just have a Facebook page because that's what all the

00:28:19.260 boomers are going to look it up on anyway. So why bother? And so, uh, we, we have had the walled

00:28:24.940 garden start to show up a little more on the internet. Now, as you point out, that hasn't

00:28:29.220 stopped the slop farmers. They're still rolling into Facebook. They're rolling into Twitter, right?

00:28:32.760 Like that's, that's continuing. The scammers are still, uh, marching in, but that does,

00:28:38.020 I think, ask us a bigger question when it comes to the internet problem, because obviously we look

00:28:45.400 at the efforts of our own government to protect us on the internet. Uh, and it has not been great,

00:28:50.940 right? Like the only thing they've done is censor us. The only thing they've done is make it harder

00:28:54.800 for us to know the truth. They've only benefited themselves. You, you would hope that you have a

00:28:59.420 regime that you could trust to put some basic safeguards in place, some basic blocks in place.

00:29:05.280 But given the just malicious nature of our leaders, it gets harder and harder to trust them to do

00:29:11.500 that. At the same time, it feels like the internet is getting more and more dangerous. It's a place

00:29:17.000 that's harder and harder to control. Uh, I think that ultimately the thing, whether we like it or not,

00:29:22.560 that most countries are focusing on is their digital sovereignty, right? We see, uh, meetings that John

00:29:28.100 Kerry goes to the WF and says, our stupid first amendment keeps getting in on in the way of our

00:29:32.980 censorship. So it's so annoying that we can't control these things. Right. But like, ultimately

00:29:37.540 every nation is going to either secure their version of the internet. Like they're going to create some

00:29:44.720 kind of bubble, some kind of control of their internet, or they're just going to get psyopped to

00:29:50.340 death, right? Like they're getting the fifth generation warfare is just going to intensify.

00:29:53.680 We already see it with things like the Palestinian and, uh, and, uh, Israeli conflict. We see it with

00:29:59.560 the Russian, uh, Ukrainian war. I mean, it's hard to even know what's happening most of the times in

00:30:04.760 those places because both sides have gotten so good at just flooding the zone with every piece

00:30:09.780 of propaganda you can imagine. And that only gets worse as more serious players end up in conflict.

00:30:15.240 And so what do you think about the future of the internet where you can't really trust the

00:30:20.400 government to do the job of censorship or protecting you or any of those things, but you know, that just

00:30:25.240 leaving the gates open is also its own disaster. Yeah. Uh, the, whether I, you or I are, uh, agree

00:30:34.020 with the idea of cultural universalism. So, I mean, this whole stream is about that. Um, we are existing

00:30:39.920 in most of our online lives on platforms created by cultural universalists. So we're, we're in their

00:30:45.100 playground and we may not like that, but that's, that's where things are. Um, and so, yeah, the,

00:30:51.000 the, the temporary solution, the personal solution is probably going to look more like moving into

00:30:56.280 curated spaces with clear rules, clear codes of conduct. Hey, we talk like this, we don't talk

00:31:02.420 like that. Um, and if somebody starts mouthing off in a certain way, then you just go like,

00:31:06.440 oh, that's, that's not what we're doing here. Uh, you can maybe do that in some other space.

00:31:10.860 Um, so I, I see that movement happening. I assume that's what happens as, as people get

00:31:15.680 more, less and less comfortable, um, in the broader public space, uh, to have some kind

00:31:22.480 of curated space, uh, X allows this through group chats. Um, there's signal, uh, and, and I'm, again,

00:31:28.680 I'm, I'm not the person with all the imagination or expertise on how this stuff works, but I assume,

00:31:34.520 again, that's just the natural progress of how things go. It's, it's why people moved into suburbs.

00:31:39.380 It's why people moved into our, in recent years, it's why people have moved away from cities into

00:31:44.520 more rural areas. They've just realized I've, I've got a kind of, um, I don't want to live in a way

00:31:49.640 where, again, I have my guard up constantly. So I might as well have at least some spaces,

00:31:54.200 some online spaces that feel more like a community of people that I trust and that, uh, is curated by

00:32:00.760 someone that at some level I think is, has a good head on his shoulders or head on her shoulders,

00:32:04.640 uh, building a little community here. Um, so I can see that happening. And again, it's the way

00:32:09.860 like localism or regionalism, whatever you want to call it kind of just is probably the inevitable

00:32:15.060 result of, uh, what's happening, uh, broader in a, in a physical space. And I think that just has to

00:32:21.120 happen or will happen in, uh, in the digital space as well. Yeah, it's been really fascinating.

00:32:26.840 Uh, I remember when discord was like this insanely nerdy thing that only guys playing, uh, you know,

00:32:33.800 video games used to, to do voice chat or whatever. And more and more, I'm, I'm having like a boomer,

00:32:40.100 uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, groups like people, you know, the hobby groups and stuff, you know,

00:32:45.940 like check out our discord, come join our discord community. And, you know, and that, that's starting

00:32:50.340 to get a little odd, uh, that they know what it is and that they're interacting with it. But more

00:32:54.800 interesting though, I think is how much driving people into communities has become a thing,

00:33:01.060 right? Like you have the Facebook book groups, they were part of that, but they're starting to

00:33:04.420 recognize that, no, you really need them in your own platform, something you can completely control.

00:33:08.780 And as you point out, the more interactions you have out in the open, the more dangerous it becomes,

00:33:13.620 the more people are recognizing, okay, maybe I only want to go out into the deep internet for certain

00:33:18.220 things, right? But for the most part, I'm going to stay back home where it's, it's safe. It's cozy,

00:33:22.820 that kind of stuff. So, so I'll spend the majority of my time in these communities, discord communities,

00:33:27.680 local communities, uh, you know, the, the, these different forums and places where more curated,

00:33:33.900 more selective, more people who are going to share my thoughts and my understanding. And, and, you know,

00:33:39.340 I can feel freer to interact with them and not be as worried at every moment. And then if I need to go

00:33:45.000 on to the, you know, the wider internet for some of that stuff, I can do it. But the, the percentage of

00:33:50.300 time, the split there is going to be more and more in the walled garden. And I think that's really,

00:33:54.620 as you point out with the suburbs and, you know, we're getting more intentional communities and

00:33:58.580 gated communities. Uh, the Braziliafication of America is something that's been thrown around.

00:34:03.420 And unfortunately that that's not entirely wrong, uh, you know, where you have these, uh, slums right

00:34:10.400 next to these beautiful communities and you can live a relatively normal life in the beautiful

00:34:15.160 communities. But if you step a few feet outside, you have a very different experience. And the

00:34:20.520 same is, is increasingly true, not just in the United States when it comes to the actual

00:34:25.100 neighborhoods, but as you point out, the digital neighborhoods as well. Well, and so we're going

00:34:28.860 to get perhaps a Brazilia, Braziliafication of the internet along with the actual United States

00:34:35.540 and its different, uh, communities. If we don't have any other way to approach this, because

00:34:40.220 ultimately, uh, spending a bunch of time in the deep web, in the, in the, in the, you know,

00:34:44.980 the more open web is going to become more and more difficult. I still think that you're probably

00:34:49.520 going to see different countries put more barriers up there. You're probably going to see that be

00:34:54.280 whether, you know, again, probably for the worst, not the better, uh, but you're going to see more

00:34:58.220 of that active curation by the state as well. But I think you're right that ultimately more and more

00:35:03.040 people are going to move into the gated communities, both physically and digitally to avoid what is,

00:35:08.760 is kind of happening to this tragedy of the commons. Yeah. And what, what, if you've been in,

00:35:14.020 and I've been in a group chats and things like that, where a lot of it is people bringing in

00:35:19.420 things from the outer web, from the, from the dark, scary forest of the web, they're sort of

00:35:24.980 sending stuff, Hey, I found this thing. Uh, and it's actually nice because you don't have to do all

00:35:29.540 the work that it takes to work, you know, sit there in the algorithm and just live there until you

00:35:34.080 find something interesting. Uh, the algorithms themselves do just kind of have this draining

00:35:39.240 effect on you. Uh, and you feel like you're constantly sorting through and trying to find

00:35:43.020 anything that's interesting. But again, if you, if you're in this smaller group and you know, Hey, I,

00:35:48.020 I'm interested in the same things that these people have the same hobbies with the same,

00:35:51.120 have the same reading habits. Then those people recommending something to you is way better

00:35:56.120 than an algorithm recommending something to you. Uh, people themselves are much more sophisticated

00:36:02.220 decision-making units than algorithms are. And so it, as we're interacting with algorithms,

00:36:08.340 we're interacting with something that's much less sophisticated than your neighbor and your friend.

00:36:12.880 And so when a friend recommends something to you, it means something because it's gone into them

00:36:17.040 and they think of you personally and then hand that to you. And so every recommendation that goes

00:36:22.160 that way, it starts to feel like you're more and more connected to people. And as, as, um, I mean,

00:36:27.480 the initial fear, a lot of times with the internet, any, any kind of new medium that comes along

00:36:31.920 typically the advertisers rush in, right? So you had, um, radio shows and TV shows where there are

00:36:38.860 advertisers. Yes. And then slowly, but surely the ad creep just sort of happens to TV and it happens

00:36:44.000 to radio and every medium can becomes the playground for big corporations to advertise. And then now with,

00:36:51.060 with everything going both ways, every media, the internet going both directions, it gets crowded

00:36:58.060 out by yes, the brands and yes, these larger things and companies, but also like the small ball scammers

00:37:04.500 with them. And so this, again, everything gets super duper crowded. And so again, you're, you're,

00:37:10.140 you're constantly just trying to reach out and try to find somebody, Hey, find somebody interesting.

00:37:14.060 Give me something from an interesting person. Um, and I think that, yeah, the influencers and things

00:37:19.320 like that will continue to have, um, will continue to have influence, uh, mainly because what, what's

00:37:25.620 been the, the main collapse, I think since 2020 has been the collapse of trust in broader institutions

00:37:31.720 and, and, and sometimes even people who are very close to you. So some people have felt betrayed by

00:37:36.660 pastors. People have been felt betrayed by doctors, by bosses, um, people who are supposed to be

00:37:42.480 close to you. Uh, and so as that crisis of trust happens, uh, it doesn't help when you're interacting

00:37:50.160 constantly with, uh, untrustworthy people, untrustworthy accounts, people that may not even

00:37:54.880 be people. Um, and so, yeah, I see this again as, as an inevitable move and a better move. Uh, I think

00:38:01.340 again, the, the technology of the internet is, uh, a way of connecting people, hopefully, hopefully it's

00:38:08.140 a way of connecting people. Um, but as it becomes harder and harder for that to happen,

00:38:11.860 we have to find our own, uh, ways of doing that. So that actually, uh, connects us to an interesting,

00:38:19.060 uh, thing that's obviously happened in the last few weeks as well, which has been, uh, the, the

00:38:24.280 kind of IDWs meltdown, right? The intellectual dark webs meltdown, uh, as you point out, there's been a

00:38:29.760 break of trust, right? And that's, um, a scary thing for these people because many of them have very

00:38:37.200 official credentials from the old regime, right? Like, like they still have landed titles of

00:38:41.580 nobility and you're supposed to, you're supposed to show your deference. Uh, and so they look at

00:38:46.960 guys like Joe Rogan and these others who in many cases gave them their platform, right? Like Joe

00:38:51.860 Rogan put most of those guys on the map. Like the reason that people know who Jordan Peterson is and

00:38:56.700 many of these other guys is because of Joe Rogan, the interviews that he did there.

00:39:00.780 And one of the reasons he was so powerful is he is this disintermediating force, right? Like he is

00:39:05.660 this thing that broke out of the institutions. He's not owned by any of the major networks. He,

00:39:09.820 he can talk to whoever he wants to for as long as he wants to, uh, you know, and, and, and really

00:39:15.360 touch on any subject and have a massive reach that was just unavailable because of the internet,

00:39:19.740 because of the very breakdown in the consensus that we've been talking about, that we've been

00:39:24.260 complaining about, right? It's, it's a catch 22, right? It's, it's both, both, uh, the, the same

00:39:29.400 thing that allows him to reach anyone at any moment without a major network is also the same thing

00:39:34.080 that allows, uh, you know, scammers to come in from different countries and, and, and come in here.

00:39:38.160 So the, the roads won't flow both ways. Uh, but excuse me. So we can, we can understand why

00:39:45.360 to some extent, you know, some of these people are worried, but the biggest thing that they've

00:39:49.200 been crying about is that Joe Rogan has been tuned doing too much of this, right? He is too

00:39:53.960 influential. He's exactly what you're pointing to. People trust his opinion too much. And he's

00:39:58.660 talking to the wrong people. He's not supposed to be having conversations with those people who were

00:40:03.220 canceled. He's supposed to be talking to the other people who canceled the one that were canceled

00:40:06.980 in the last wave, the good ones, right? Before we got, before we got to all the things they

00:40:10.960 disagreed with and now they're demanding control of. And so you have this weird moment where these

00:40:16.280 guys who were like famous for, you know, saying, well, the mainstream is quieting us and the

00:40:21.160 mainstream is throwing us. And I, you know, I'm Barry Weiss and I can't get any more columns at the

00:40:25.960 New York times. So I'm going to go start my own thing. Right. And now those people are running

00:40:29.600 around and being like, no, no, shut up, shut up, shut up. Not like that. No. When we said free speech,

00:40:34.040 we didn't mean like all the time. And when we talked about like, you know, getting new ideas

00:40:38.680 and having conversations, we didn't mean any of the ones about things that we value, right? Like

00:40:42.640 we don't want that stuff deconstructed. And so you have a weird moment where again, it's just like

00:40:47.860 the government I want, you know, I wish I had a government I could trust to protect me from scammers

00:40:51.940 coming in on these internet roads. I wish there was a level of institutional trust that allowed us to

00:40:57.780 be protected from some of the hazards that do come from everything being the wild west. But I'm really

00:41:03.540 hesitant to put up those barriers because you see the panic that's seeping in to some of these

00:41:08.400 people because Joe Rogan's talking to the wrong guys. And you're like, Ooh, no, that that's probably

00:41:12.260 good, right? Like actually these people should be sweating in a moment like this. What do you think

00:41:16.420 about that? Yeah. I think that any of the institutions, um, that come next, I think we'll have to earn their

00:41:24.300 trust. So if they don't already have it, then they'll have to build new trust. So if, if, um,

00:41:29.000 you know, Barry Weiss got canceled from the New York times, I don't have a bunch of opinions about

00:41:33.360 Barry Weiss independently, but if then, um, it doesn't mean just because she was at the New York

00:41:39.180 times doesn't mean that much to us now. What means a lot to us is that she was on Joe Rogan and the

00:41:43.360 Joe Rogan had a good episode with her. Great. So he, he kind of becomes a one man institution. And we,

00:41:47.840 we, you know, speaking generally, we tend to like that. We like that he had a good episode with her,

00:41:53.020 but if he turns against her, then he's, she's basically turning against her new real credential,

00:41:57.600 which is a sort of odd way to even think about it. But anything that she builds later with, uh,

00:42:03.620 the institution she's starting has to then earn the trust back. And it can't just go,

00:42:08.120 we got our credentials back when everything meant something. Um, and, and, and it also can't be that,

00:42:14.100 Hey, we've gone through the fire of cancellation. That doesn't necessarily earn your trust in a way,

00:42:19.220 in that way. It has to, um, people have to exist with you and continue to trust you for a long time.

00:42:25.740 And then they'll defer, uh, and just go, Oh, that I, I, I tend to trust where that person goes.

00:42:31.760 Oh, I, I haven't thought about it that way before. I'll take it with them there. Um, I, yeah, I don't

00:42:36.880 like the wild west. I wish that there were institutions that had been built, uh, or that have, have had

00:42:42.900 outlasted this. And I think there have been some, but they're smaller. And again, we, we tend to,

00:42:47.400 we want to look for the biggest institutions to be the ones that are the ones driving those things.

00:42:52.360 But a lot of times the big, the institutions that matter to us tend to be closer to us. Uh, if,

00:42:57.960 if my, if my friends or my, uh, my people at my church or the people that like my kids go to school

00:43:04.900 with, like those are things that I actually do trust. Um, and so if, if those people recommend,

00:43:10.020 again, something to me, it means more to me than, uh, Barry Weiss, or it means more to me than

00:43:15.180 some influencer, uh, even Joe Rogan. If I trust those people more, um, and trust does have to go

00:43:21.820 outward from the center outward from yourself. Uh, and so rather than thinking of, um, the New York

00:43:27.900 times as the New York times over here is the most trustworthy and all of the people around me are

00:43:32.780 the people that I don't trust. And I tend to have my guard up around like that's, that's an ugly

00:43:36.140 way to live. Um, but if you, if it goes the other way, then yes, nobody is going to have,

00:43:42.440 I think going forward, nobody's going to have the level of trust that the New York times had

00:43:45.640 mainly because all that has kind of broken down and we have to start building in a way,

00:43:49.800 again, we have to get our heat map, right. We have, we have to trust moves the same way that

00:43:54.280 affection does. And so if, if I have strong trust here and have less of trust, but enjoy, uh, I enjoy

00:44:01.360 Joe Rogan, but I don't look to him for guidance about my personal spiritual life or anything like

00:44:07.460 that. I enjoy him. I'm glad he's doing his thing. Um, but any institution has to, that comes after

00:44:12.500 this has to recognize again, affection and trust move in the same groups. Yeah, I think that's

00:44:19.540 important. And you, you know, you look at a lot of these guys who are kind of having their backlash

00:44:25.460 against free speech right now. It feels like, um, a little like they jumped the gun, you know,

00:44:30.540 like they, they pulled the Indiana Jones, uh, idle sandbag maneuver, but they did it, you know,

00:44:35.540 before they were in position and that kind of thing. Like you needed a few more years. Like

00:44:39.320 they, they, they didn't want to build the trust. Like you're saying, they just wanted the, they

00:44:43.360 were hoping that if you just got rid of the new Vanguard, then they would like just return

00:44:47.940 to power by default. It feels like, right? Like, well, we were the, the head of the revolution

00:44:53.200 and those woke guys, you know, messed everything up and they got all the chuds riled up and we

00:44:57.760 had to start, you know, talking about the, the, all the problems that the left was having,

00:45:01.420 but we kind of expect that as soon as we peeled off the layer of those radicals,

00:45:05.360 well, then all of that credibility would just return, right? Like all of the institutions

00:45:09.480 would want us again. And, you know, we would be in our rightful places, ruling the universe,

00:45:13.400 that kind of thing. And instead of building the institutions necessary, I mean, you look

00:45:17.860 at something like Jonathan Heights, uh, you know, or, uh, heterodox Academy, which fires people

00:45:23.140 for being heterodox, you know, like there's a lot of that stuff, you know, like that, that

00:45:26.920 seems to be a constant problem that they're, they're running into. And so I don't, I just feel

00:45:31.400 like even their attempts to build the institutions, they turned things too quickly, right? Like

00:45:36.000 they couldn't live to their own principles, even for long enough to build that trust that

00:45:39.660 you're talking about to, to move in those directions simultaneously. And that really hurts them. And

00:45:44.660 that's why I think you're exactly right. That's scaling down those institutions that require trust

00:45:50.020 is going to be critical, right? That that's where our trust is going to get earned. That's where

00:45:54.160 you're going to be more reliably able to turn. That's why people are turning to the different,

00:45:58.380 you know, uh, communities we're talking about for better or for worse, because they recognize

00:46:02.440 that the scaling down, the gatekeeping, the, the, the control, the intentional organization

00:46:07.680 and affiliation, that's, what's going to matter. That's what's I think going to outlast the,

00:46:12.520 uh, crumbling of these New York times world health organization, you know, wall street journal

00:46:17.740 type institutions. Yeah. I I'm also in, in, uh, I'm also skeptical of sort of universal skepticism.

00:46:24.980 I, I, I hate that. I hate it when, when everybody, um, thinks that no institution could ever earn my

00:46:30.780 trust. I think that's a bad, also a bad place to be. Um, but I think the solution that a lot of

00:46:36.340 people have seen and a lot of people have gone for is institutions that are much, much older.

00:46:42.600 Um, and so the New York times is a relatively recent phenomenon. We think of it as an old thing.

00:46:47.620 It is an old thing, but it's in, in human history, it's a relatively recent thing. Whereas the

00:46:52.240 Christian church is something that people are flocking to now in, in a big way. Um, mainly

00:46:57.540 because in some, at some level they want some roots and we're in a relatively rootless time.

00:47:02.580 It's really tough to find people to trust. And so, yeah, the conversion to traditional forms

00:47:08.320 of Christianity has been happening at a large rate, mainly because people want some institution

00:47:13.260 to fall back on and they know that they don't have it figured out, right? They, they, they can look

00:47:17.840 at, Hey, the New York times failed me or the media failed me or whatever. Um, and, and see,

00:47:23.140 Hey, I see holes in this, but I know that I'm not perfect. And I know that I, I need somebody

00:47:28.020 to come in and correct me. I need somebody to lead me. I need to be able to trust an institution

00:47:32.820 to say, Hey, have you thought about changing this about how your life, your life is? Um,

00:47:37.020 and that's, that's real. That has to happen. Uh, or again, we have this universal corrosive

00:47:41.520 that just destroys trust between, uh, the people closest to you. And we don't want that. I mean,

00:47:46.880 the, the fact that we've gone through the time of COVID and after where families were broken apart

00:47:52.160 and all these sorts of terrible things happened, uh, we don't want to therefore think that that's

00:47:56.380 the universal state of humanity, that, that isolation is good or that individualism is, is the,

00:48:02.820 the solution, or even my connection to a far away internet community is the most important thing.

00:48:08.940 Um, I think that, yeah, I think that's why one reason why we're seeing, uh, a growth in

00:48:13.900 the church attendance and church membership is that people want institutions that they can trust

00:48:19.160 and they tend to trust institutions that have lasted for a while. So there's a Lindy aspect

00:48:23.060 to, to all of this as well. So one more thing I want to ask you before we go to the questions of

00:48:28.500 the people, a little off topic, but it is, we are on Trump's a hundred days now. Right. And that is,

00:48:34.540 that, that is, uh, an arbitrary mark, but it is one that is honored for a reason. And you tend to

00:48:40.580 get the most done inside that time. That's where you tend to see, uh, the most initial change. Uh,

00:48:46.500 a lot of people, uh, especially, uh, very, very online people, uh, are a little, little miffed at

00:48:51.860 Trump. He is not everything hasn't been delivered. The, all the wars aren't done. Every illegal hasn't

00:48:57.140 been, uh, thrown out. We haven't completely changed the, uh, scope and shape of international trade

00:49:02.920 inside of a hundred days. Uh, and so a lot of, you know, a lot of guys are kind of writing it off.

00:49:07.520 Nothing's ever going to happen. Nothing's going to get fixed. Um, I think that obviously there are

00:49:12.280 things that could be encouraged. Uh, I'm, I'm glad to see another big raid, uh, from the Trump

00:49:16.660 administration when it comes to deportations today, but obviously, uh, the, the pace has not

00:49:21.700 been sufficient to do the level of deportations that were promised. Obviously I, and I've made this

00:49:26.680 case many times, you've got to ramp up. There's got to be, there's logistical concerns. There's

00:49:30.740 legal concerns. You have to defeat these things before you just start rounding up millions of

00:49:34.440 people are all going to sit in camps. And all of a sudden you got, he's got millions of people in

00:49:38.020 camps and, you know, we know exactly where that goes from there. Uh, and so, uh, you know, there's

00:49:43.120 a reason that all that hasn't been done that said, uh, you know, mixed reviews on the, on the tariffs,

00:49:49.440 uh, you know, probably a thumbs up on immigration though. We'd like to see more. What, what are your

00:49:53.960 reflections on the first hundred days of Trump? I am a big fan of the direction. And, uh, as far as

00:50:00.520 the pace goes, I totally understand, uh, the, the frustrations or thoughts like, Hey, if we have

00:50:06.420 20 million illegals here, um, then this is the pace we need to go. I think that a lot of the, uh,

00:50:12.780 the stuff that needs to happen now is getting over some initial humps so that once, once the initial

00:50:18.180 cases have happened and the, if so, if there are some major attempts by the left to smear Trump as

00:50:25.920 this insane person who just wants to deport every dad in Maryland, uh, then if he, if he, if he's that

00:50:32.060 guy and then he just moves past it and everything's fine, then I think you can ramp the pace up after

00:50:36.900 that. Um, so that at least that's my assumption about how things could work. Um, but yeah, like I

00:50:44.680 said, if, if, if, uh, if you're asking whether I'm pleased with it, then yeah, I'd say I'm pleased with

00:50:50.440 the direction of it. And I think that's better than I would have been otherwise. Uh, I'm pretty

00:50:56.220 easy to please when, uh, there aren't people at like the, the president is not actively destroying

00:51:01.740 my country. And, uh, I think it's, again, we're, we're trying to do things better. We're trying to

00:51:07.100 restore stuff and not just tear down all the, all the bad, ugly stuff. Um, all, all of these wins,

00:51:12.440 I do not want to take them for granted. Um, I, I also want to encourage them. I want to hold

00:51:16.980 Trump's feet to the fire. I want things to keep going. Uh, but we have to start somewhere

00:51:21.460 and that starting somewhere starts with being successful a few times. And if you're successful

00:51:26.420 a few times, then you can, yeah, you can turn up, uh, again, back to the earning trust thing.

00:51:31.480 I think that Trump, if he can govern in a way that he, where his voters can trust him,

00:51:35.620 then he can get away with quite a bit later. And by get away with, I mean, like get away with all

00:51:39.880 the stuff that they voted for. And if there, if there's this groundswell of support saying,

00:51:43.580 yes, we gave you this mandate. Uh, I think that that's, you can justify a lot of action in a good

00:51:49.140 way, uh, later on, at least that's my hope. Nope. I think that's right. All right, guys. Well,

00:51:54.180 let's go ahead and move over to the questions of the people. But before we do Wade, where can people

00:51:58.980 find your excellent work? I am at the Wade show with Wade on YouTube. Uh, follow me on X at Wade

00:52:05.140 Stotts. And, uh, that's where I can, you can find pretty much everything I'm doing. I also do a

00:52:09.640 podcast to do the Wade cast with Wade on canonplus.com. You like how I waited for that question

00:52:14.740 until you had the sip in, you know, so you had to do. Oh, I appreciate it. No, it's great. And

00:52:18.660 actually the product placement made it so much. Exactly. So, so thank you for it. All part of

00:52:23.040 my plan. All part of my plan. All right. So let's go to the questions real quick here. We've got

00:52:27.640 Paulie B says, Oh, wait a minute. You're telling me biology is real and I can judge a book by its cover

00:52:32.860 gesticulates. Wow. I'm hearing this for the first time. Uh, you know, as always, I try to remind

00:52:38.700 people that the classical understanding of nationhood and peoplehood is both biological

00:52:44.140 and spiritual. It is a mixture of this. It's not that biology doesn't matter. Uh, but it's also that,

00:52:49.940 you know, culture and religion and these things don't matter. Uh, again, uh, love, we both love to

00:52:54.940 look back at the, uh, the, the work of, um, of, uh, uh, uh, Samuel Huntington and, you know, his,

00:53:02.200 his point is, you know, what, what is a nation? It's language. It's, it's yes, it's, it's blood,

00:53:08.060 it's heritage. It's, it's, you know, geography. Uh, you know, it's, it's the shared culture. It's,

00:53:13.880 and it's especially the religion for him. Religion is, is the ultimate thing, but all of these things

00:53:18.340 matter. And I just think that's important for people to remember it, you know, that it's,

00:53:22.980 it's those factors all together. It's not just this one thing. So I think you, those who completely

00:53:27.900 ignore biology are doing themselves a disservice, but those that focus, you know, on it as if that's

00:53:33.100 the only thing that matters, that that's a level of scientism that any of the perennial

00:53:37.180 traditionalists would have found just as ridiculous. Yeah. In the same way that I would

00:53:41.500 find ideal ideological definitions of nation nationhood as also a problem. So sort of isolating

00:53:47.860 one, one piece of the puzzle and going, oh, that's the entire thing. I think that's a,

00:53:51.860 both of those are problems. Yeah. And that doesn't mean we can't know what the thing is.

00:53:55.140 That doesn't mean the thing is unknowable, but it just means the thing is more complicated and

00:53:59.100 that's okay. Good. Important things can be complicated. You know, um, Matt Gredir says,

00:54:05.660 call me crazy, but I don't think immigrants from countries that don't have any traffic lights

00:54:09.840 should be driving 18 wheelers across America. They tend to drink and drive and they can't read

00:54:14.340 English again, many different problems with people coming in from different cultures,

00:54:18.940 different places. Of course, if they don't speak the language, that's massive. If they don't have

00:54:22.800 the same level of technology or the same types of transportation or the same types of infrastructure,

00:54:27.820 they could be entirely unfamiliar with how to operate them or what the, you know, the way in

00:54:32.000 which they're supposed to be doing, they may not have the, you know, the moral or the, the,

00:54:36.360 the, just the habit hygiene necessary to do certain jobs. That is all a real problem, right? So when we

00:54:42.400 talk about foreign workers coming in, yeah, yes, they do it for cheaper and the American jobs,

00:54:46.800 but also it can make things less safe, right? Unfamiliar with building codes, unfamiliar with

00:54:51.360 driving, unfamiliar with the language, have difficulty communicating or understanding

00:54:55.740 the norms necessary inside the society. These are all reasons to be very particular about who you

00:55:01.880 choose. If anyone immigrate into your country. Yeah. If I'm, if I'm driving down the road and

00:55:06.920 there's a guy on the other side of the yellow line, I assume quite a bit about that person just

00:55:11.760 based on the fact that we're both here. Uh, and if I can't assume that, then yeah, that it's an,

00:55:17.840 the road becomes an ugly place and it shouldn't be the American highway. I mean, come on, you get,

00:55:22.400 it's, it's got, that's gotta be, you gotta want to preserve something there. If you're hurt, if you're

00:55:26.560 hurtling down the road at 70 miles an hour with nothing but a foot or two between you and another,

00:55:30.820 you know, a ton or two of steel moving the same rate, you want to know the person operating that

00:55:35.880 vehicle can do things like know when to turn, read a sign, familiar with these things. Those are

00:55:41.680 pretty critical things. We, again, just high trust behaviors. We assume because, well, yeah, of course,

00:55:47.720 everyone can just do this. Like that's, but that's just not the case. Uh, Joe McDermott says the, uh,

00:55:54.400 this conversation adds to my concern that the bigger immigration threat is the one coming the legal

00:55:58.700 way, such as begins with H1B visas. I worry Trump isn't paying attention to this area. So again,

00:56:05.560 I am as concerned with, as you are about the H1B threat, though, I would not say it is the largest

00:56:12.040 one. Like that's, let's just be very honest. While I think that this, the fact that that is one is

00:56:17.320 ignored or played down is a huge problem, but obviously illegal immigration is more dangerous.

00:56:23.240 People with proven criminal records, people who are willing to break the law initially and will not

00:56:28.660 go through the process usually are completely unfamiliar with the language or the culture in a way

00:56:33.360 that would allow them to function inside the country. Uh, we don't know who they are. We don't

00:56:37.280 know where they are. Uh, they end up running, you know, street gangs and these things like, don't get

00:56:41.140 me wrong. That doesn't mean that H1B workers coming in and taking over a large amount of jobs and

00:56:47.040 changing, especially elite culture in many places isn't its own problem. Uh, but just for immediate

00:56:51.960 safety concerns, immediate, uh, you know, cultural concerns, uh, obviously the, you know, uh, tens of

00:56:58.520 millions of people who are here illegally personally, I believe are just, just do present a much bigger

00:57:03.720 threat though. I do think that we have to stay vigilant on the H1B stuff as well. Totally.

00:57:10.520 Uh, Vegas 77 says, uh, other, other day at a local bar, a large group of foreign men walked in and

00:57:16.200 started scoping out the women. My ancestors would not have been kind to that again, basic, uh, attention.

00:57:22.160 And this is important, right? Like this is something that people, I try to explain this,

00:57:26.100 especially no offense to women. They don't understand that like men from different cultures

00:57:30.820 are very different and many cultures teach the men of their culture that women who are not in

00:57:36.300 their culture are just not people, right? Like this is a very common thing. This is why the grooming

00:57:41.260 gangs in the UK, you were almost exclusively Pakistani to, to white British women, right? Because

00:57:47.780 those British women didn't matter. The laws of Islam, the laws of their culture did not apply

00:57:53.640 to these non-Muslim, non-Pakistani. You're not part of the tribe. And so the, the, the, uh, the,

00:58:00.440 the morality doesn't apply to you. This is a pretty common thing throughout pretty much all of the,

00:58:05.860 uh, world is that the, the, the, the, uh, morality is not universal. It is tribal. It is for your people,

00:58:12.460 your kind. And so a lot of people don't recognize that. And then they put themselves in situations

00:58:17.560 where they don't realize that that is the understanding for most cultures. And so you see

00:58:22.440 this a lot with, uh, women who travel abroad, you know, end up in a place, uh, where, where the

00:58:26.960 culture is very, very different and they don't grasp that. No, you are fair game because you don't

00:58:31.660 share the traits they need to extend that morality to you. Yeah. I, uh, a lot of the differences I think

00:58:38.060 that both of us are describing are things that I would want somebody to explain before a mission trip,

00:58:43.140 or if, if a bunch, if a bunch of people from my church, we're going to go do some kind of mission

00:58:48.160 work in India, then yeah, I would hope somebody would sit them down and say, Hey, here's what to

00:58:51.780 expect when you're in a public place. And here's not what to expect. Here's how to adjust. And,

00:58:55.940 and, uh, here's, here's the kind of thing you should engage in. Here's the kind of thing you

00:58:59.260 shouldn't. Uh, it's just a wisdom call and us both trying to point them out is again, just trying to

00:59:04.820 make sure that we know what we're dealing with and how we're, how we're talking. Yep. Uh, blood base says,

00:59:10.820 where can I buy that t-shirt Orin? Well, thank you very much for asking sir. And for your generous

00:59:15.380 donation, you can pick up this shirt in the Orin McIntyre store. You can head over to shop

00:59:20.280 blazemedia.com and click on the Orin McIntyre collection and you can get your Cthulhu shirt

00:59:25.740 there along with many other fine pieces of Orin McIntyre, uh, merchandise. If you want to support

00:59:32.060 the show, that is a great way to do so. And then, uh, the sanity revolt says our culture is superior.

00:59:39.260 Our culture is superior, uh, because our religion is Christianity. And that is a truth that makes

00:59:44.300 men free. Pat Buchanan, one based to, uh, you know, uh, uh, Pat Buchanan here, just, uh, agreeing

00:59:52.180 with the survey, right? Protestant Christianity, one of the major factors when it comes to the high

00:59:57.320 trust society. So one of the things we can, we can look at when we're trying to figure out whether

01:00:01.780 or not you've got a society that's got the proper culture, a culture that you're going to be able to

01:00:06.000 operate in. That seems to be one of the key factors. Yeah. Trust the science and trust Pat

01:00:10.940 Buchanan. That's a good, yeah. I didn't need a, I didn't need a scientific paper to know I should

01:00:15.920 trust Pat Buchanan. However, always nice to have the study just in case, right? If I'm, if I'm ever

01:00:21.080 in a debate with some random leftist and I need to have the study, you know, then that's good to know,

01:00:25.400 but I should, I should be able to just cite Pat Buchanan. He is far and away a far better source,

01:00:30.780 uh, proven himself many times over. All right, guys, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up.

01:00:35.940 Always a pleasure talking to Wade. If for some reason you have made the mistake of not subscribing

01:00:40.340 to him, you should be following him on everything. You got the Wade show with Wade there. And of course,

01:00:45.160 if it's your first time on this channel, you need to go ahead and subscribe on YouTube,

01:00:49.920 click the bell notifications, all that stuff. If you'd like to get the broadcast as podcasts,

01:00:54.760 make sure to subscribe to the Orrin McIntyre show on your favorite podcast platform. And by the way,

01:00:59.880 if you want to watch these shows, you can watch them on blaze TV. In addition to YouTube,

01:01:03.940 we were also on rumble. We're on odyssey. This goes live on Twitter. So there are many different

01:01:08.640 platforms. I know some people don't like YouTube or they don't want to get involved with YouTube,

01:01:12.460 or they just want to support the show through something like blaze TV. It's available in all

01:01:15.900 those places. Thank you everybody for watching. And as always, I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - April 28, 2025

The Danger of Cultural Universalism ｜ Guest： Wade Stotts ｜ 4⧸28⧸25

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