The Auron MacIntyre Show - The Dave Rubin and Bishop Barron Interview Was Bizarre ｜ 5 ⧸18⧸26

00:00:00.400 Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I am Oren McIntyre.

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00:00:27.320 all right guys there was a really interesting and well frankly bizarre conversation that went

00:00:35.140 on a few days ago between dave rubin and bishop barron you're probably familiar with both of

00:00:41.260 these individuals but in case you aren't dave rubin is this guy who used to be a very progressive

00:00:47.300 comedian he was on the young turks he was on left-wing uh talk radio and over time he decided

00:00:55.100 that he didn't like wokeness he didn't like the direction that the left was going and he became

00:01:00.300 this figure that embodied a kind of movement heading into 2015 2016 that was talking a lot

00:01:08.280 about free speech the problems of woke cancellation the inability of people to talk make fun of

00:01:14.460 things have fun anymore the way that education and all these other areas entertainment were being

00:01:20.360 dominated by wokeness and leftism. And at this time, he was far from alone. There was the emergence

00:01:27.620 of what was eventually labeled by Barry Weiss as the intellectual dark web, which is like this

00:01:35.400 collection of mostly leftists, but a few kind of conservatives. You had Joe Rogan as kind of the

00:01:42.060 host that was bringing these people on. And you had Jordan Peterson, who was a big one. You had

00:01:47.820 sam harris uh you had the the weinstein brothers brett and eric uh you had of course dave rubin

00:01:55.080 and all of these people were coming out ben shapiro they were coming out against this kind

00:02:01.640 of left-wing woke dominance that we were seeing in the culture the hysteria seemed to be kind of

00:02:06.800 sweeping the nation and dave rubin's show that he started after kind of leaving the young turks

00:02:13.560 striking out on his own on YouTube became a hub for these different kind of anti-woke

00:02:19.380 individuals. And at this time, I found the movement fascinating. 2015, 2016, Oren McIntyre

00:02:26.420 thought it was wild that kind of all these people who had previously been on the left,

00:02:31.580 some of them in my mind, very far to left, though for them, they didn't think of themselves that

00:02:35.500 way. But many of these people who had been kind of very progressive were starting to understand the

00:02:41.600 problems that their own worldview was presenting to the types of lives they've wanted to live

00:02:47.580 and Dave Rubin was exploring this aspect of his his kind of intellectual approach as well as

00:02:55.180 interviewing all these other people who were going on the same journey and so you know I

00:03:00.220 first discovered this when they had Sargon Avakad, Carl Benjamin on the show which was

00:03:07.820 interesting because at that time Carl very much thought of himself as a liberal in good standing

00:03:13.020 so he he felt very similar to a guy like Dave Rubin though Carl has moved very radically much

00:03:19.360 to his credit on something like that and this is where I discovered all kinds of other people

00:03:23.560 Stephen Crowder and you had Candace Owens back when she was a leftist who was running a

00:03:31.400 doxing website trying to destroy conservatives you just had this whole kind of who's who of

00:03:37.380 people who would slowly come up and come to dominate much of the conservative media environment

00:03:42.520 for the next decade. And they were all kind of flowing through Dave Rubin's show. Now,

00:03:47.920 the interesting thing is that Dave Rubin had many conversations with people who were far more

00:03:53.480 religious than him. You had guys like, of course, Jordan Peterson, who himself wasn't a Christian,

00:03:58.960 but certainly respected the Bible, respected many parts of Christianity, thought it was very

00:04:04.300 important. And then he even brought in legitimately Christian people like Bishop Barron. Bishop Barron

00:04:09.880 is a guy who, you know, I think seems very friendly. He's often portrayed as this very

00:04:15.980 conservative Catholic figure and was having good conversations with many people who had previously

00:04:23.720 been on the left about the value of Christianity. Many of these people, along with their discovery

00:04:28.700 that the left had gone too far, were also learning that having stripped out every aspect of

00:04:33.840 Christianity was not the best move. You still had very angry people like Sam Harris who hated

00:04:39.100 Christianity, but several of these leftist figures were, if not adopting Christianity itself,

00:04:44.480 at least open to the idea that Christianity had some form of value. And so they entered into this

00:04:52.040 dialogue. So I understand why this relationship was formed, why this has been kind of a friendly

00:04:58.060 dialogue over what's basically been a decade now i haven't checked in on dave rubin in a long time

00:05:04.760 and the reasons for that are plentiful one i moved well beyond the dave rubin phase i moved well

00:05:11.080 beyond this conservative enamored with the idea that leftists might start listening to us again

00:05:17.020 talking to us again seeing some problems with their own movement again i recognize that actually

00:05:22.380 that's not really what's happening we'll get much more into that in a second but the other reason

00:05:27.500 is that Dave Rubin ended up blocking me on Twitter. And I bet you can guess exactly the day

00:05:32.780 that Dave Rubin blocked me on Twitter and has never unblocked me. And the reason is because

00:05:38.520 I pointed out that actually all these conservatives celebrating Dave Rubin's new

00:05:45.020 children that he purchased with his gay husband, that was not really very conservative. Actually,

00:05:53.080 that was the opposite of conservatism at the time it was pretty popular to applaud Dave for

00:05:58.920 you know trying to be a family man doing his best to kind of emulate a family in some way

00:06:04.580 you know ironically Dave Rubin got a lot of his start a lot of his attention because he was

00:06:12.580 decrying the trans movement the idea that men could not become women and it was ridiculous to

00:06:17.960 say that the these genders were interchangeable that these biological sexes could be altered by 0.87

00:06:23.500 some kind of physical surgery he was pointing out the damage it was doing the ridiculous nature of 0.53

00:06:28.220 it but dave rubin was basically creating a trans family dave rubin is not a mother the man he is 0.88

00:06:36.760 married to which is not marriage there is no such thing as gay marriage that does not exist

00:06:41.680 but he did not acknowledge that he was literally making the same argument for homosexuals that he

00:06:51.560 was arguing against for trans people that somehow his partner who he calls a husband even though

00:06:58.240 they cannot be married because two men can't be married for the same exact reason that men cannot

00:07:04.220 become women because that's not what marriage is that is a distortion a complete rewriting 0.67

00:07:09.320 of the definition but dave could never put that together because like ultimately his homosexuality 0.62

00:07:15.140 was more important than truth and so just like any trans person he was ignoring reality so he 0.86

00:07:22.620 could continue to live the delusional lifestyle he wanted to live however dave saw the problems 0.94

00:07:27.360 with the left and so he was trying to ape the conservative lifestyle without giving up

00:07:32.860 the the sin the the thing that he was fighting god against that he was fighting against reality with

00:07:39.960 so the fact that he was out there buying children and you know marrying some guy

00:07:45.900 and then being held up as a conservative uh you know pundit some some thought leader some

00:07:52.440 important figure on the right i thought that was insane and simply by pointing that out i got a

00:07:57.560 nice block from dave so i really haven't been familiar with like what he's talking about i

00:08:02.760 haven't seen anything from him in many many years however he popped up on bishop baron and i thought

00:08:08.300 was very interesting because i thought to myself well the attitudes on surrogacy have changed pretty

00:08:14.480 radically on the right uh you know at the time when dave rubin was buying children uh like you

00:08:20.880 know two boys just weird you know just pointing that out just always boys always boys for some

00:08:26.460 reason um but when they were purchasing boys uh that was celebrated again by many conservatives

00:08:32.360 over time that position has uh changed quite radically you know there are several people

00:08:38.180 myself included in the blaze who speak out very forcefully against surrogacy uh because of its

00:08:45.060 monstrous nature and we'll get into that as well as we talk about this uh but you know because of

00:08:50.500 that shift i wondered if bishop baron was going to confront dave about the fact that despite being 0.90

00:08:57.160 part of the conservative movement for 10 years he's still gay he's still gay married he still

00:09:04.340 owns children that are not his and has in no way as at least as far as i understand it repented in

00:09:10.660 any sense of the of any of these facts he has not addressed the contradictions i wondered well will

00:09:17.640 this Catholic bishop, this guy whose job literally is to tell a man the truth about sin, will he

00:09:23.820 confront him about that? So I watched this whole thing. I think it's like an hour and a half-ish.

00:09:30.220 And I obviously cannot play the whole thing here, hour and a half, you know, longer than the program

00:09:35.700 itself. I had to cut out some choice things that I want to observe here. But I encourage you to go

00:09:41.120 watch the whole thing if you want the full context. As always, I never want you to think I'm just

00:09:45.580 clipping people out of context to own them or anything please go watch the whole thing so you

00:09:50.780 can understand why i'm approaching the way i did a lot of what they did in this was just to repeat

00:09:56.960 talking points from 2015 and among the many things that stunned me when i was watching it that was

00:10:02.520 probably the most amazing to me it's like this was a little time capsule like like a like somebody

00:10:08.280 cryogenically froze the world in 2015 and nothing changed nothing happened uh dave gave exactly the

00:10:16.720 same stories exactly the same talking points exactly the same uh you know kind of uh wrote

00:10:23.580 memorized explanations that he had back when i watched his stuff over a deck or i guess about

00:10:30.500 a decade ago at this point and i just thought that was insane because like i have changed

00:10:34.840 radically from that time and i i would think that since dave started a journey at that time

00:10:40.700 he would have journeyed further or at the very least bishop baron might confront him for not

00:10:45.620 have journey very far instead like i said what i saw was two men who seemed absolutely bamboozled

00:10:53.960 that basically like this center-left utopia that they kind of wanted like this this kind of

00:11:01.020 bill clinton-esque liberalism that they wanted didn't didn't materialize after they went on

00:11:07.480 their their little journeys together and so i want to play these clips i want to go over them i'll

00:11:11.860 stop and comment it as i said um but but i just think it's really interesting uh that so little

00:11:18.400 has changed for these men and they have thought so little through kind of why the world is currently

00:11:24.100 the way it is and not the way they envisioned it would be but that said let's jump in and i'll i'll

00:11:28.600 stop it and explain when I think there's something important.

00:11:31.040 But I often say that, you know, defending my classical liberal beliefs has become a

00:11:35.020 conservative position.

00:11:36.020 Makes you a conservative.

00:11:37.020 So, right.

00:11:38.020 And that's the thing.

00:11:39.020 And I think maybe that's why I find common cause with so many people that people think

00:11:41.980 I wouldn't because in a weird way, the liberals need the conservatives to guard the door.

00:11:49.920 Liberals are very good at, you know, we can have our differences and we can hopefully

00:11:56.640 we can build institutions.

00:11:57.640 I mean, that's what classical liberals really did in this country, but they're not good at ever saying, OK, guys, enough's enough.

00:12:04.820 And because of that, that's why the progressives were basically able to take over liberalism.

00:12:09.020 Right. So. First, it's bizarre again to see Dave just using the same line from 2015, like my my becoming being a liberal suddenly became conservative.

00:12:20.260 And that's why I'm over here. I don't like this for a couple of reasons.

00:12:24.960 one did dave change or not right like the idea that he's supposed to be explaining i think is

00:12:32.540 that he actually had a legitimate change and to be fair to dave i want to give give the man at

00:12:37.800 least some do here i think he did change on a number of issues i think he had genuinely pretty

00:12:43.300 radically progressive beliefs and he came something to more like a center left or barely maybe into

00:12:51.360 a little bit of conservatism. That's a change. That's a pretty significant change, but we're

00:12:56.700 not acknowledging that change. We're just saying, well, no, the whole world changed and I just stood

00:13:01.720 still. And this is always my problem with kind of the IDW types. They take up this Ronald Reagan. 0.99

00:13:07.020 I didn't leave the left, the left left me. Well, okay. So you're saying you're still leftist

00:13:13.100 that you didn't learn anything. And the danger of that is always, I didn't need to change.

00:13:18.740 everybody else needs to change and understand that my world review was correct all the time 0.94

00:13:23.640 and it's only because those liberals got a little too wacky a little too crazy

00:13:27.580 that ultimately i kind of had to i had to side with the conservatives but i didn't move

00:13:32.920 everybody moved around me and to be fair there's some truth to that but but that reveals something

00:13:38.980 right it reveals something about the world that if the liberals are keep getting crazier

00:13:44.100 and the right keeps moving to catch up to where you are now you're admitting that the right is

00:13:51.100 becoming more leftist that the or at least the conservatives are becoming more leftist which

00:13:58.100 you know if you watch this channel at all you know Cthulhu swims slowly but he always swims

00:14:03.020 to the left this is like a core understanding of neo-reaction a lot of what we talk about here

00:14:07.700 conquest laws so like yes I agree with all this but Dave does not grapple with the implications

00:14:13.500 of the fact that conservatives moved

00:14:15.680 far enough left for him to become

00:14:17.680 a conservative he just acts

00:14:19.680 like that's like the rational thing to do

00:14:21.780 it never it

00:14:23.360 he's never intellectually curious about why

00:14:25.740 that movement has occurred

00:14:27.540 okay something

00:14:29.560 happened because before we went

00:14:31.660 on camera to talk about William F. Buckley

00:14:33.140 but what I really admire about

00:14:35.800 Buckley is that he was a great

00:14:37.720 friend with someone like John Kenneth Galbraith

00:14:40.160 yes with whom he had profound

00:14:41.660 disagreements about politics economics everything but it's lovely to watch the two of them talk

00:14:46.520 because they're around the same age they obviously like each other they're friends and they were

00:14:51.080 disagreeing vehemently but you knew they went out for dinner afterwards you knew they had a drink

00:14:55.960 together you knew that they would get together happily so i left this in because this is going

00:15:01.040 to prefigure some stuff that we're going to talk about later here but i just want to i'll outline

00:15:06.380 it and then when we get to the meat of it we'll drill down deeper but you'll notice that there

00:15:11.120 answer here is, well, what I really like is conversation. I like that we can sit down and

00:15:16.420 two people who disagree are able to talk things out. And look, man, I like to do that whenever

00:15:20.420 possible. I'm somebody who enjoys a good conversation with someone I disagree with.

00:15:23.980 I find intellectual exploration, sparring, the exchanging ideas. I do think that that's good.

00:15:30.200 Does that make me a liberal? Maybe. I think Benjamin Boyce would say it makes me a liberal.

00:15:34.180 But that said, you'll notice that they bring up William F. Buckley specifically here and say,

00:15:40.660 well, that's the great thing about William F. Buckley. Yes, he was considered like the big

00:15:44.400 leader of the right, the conservatives at the time, but he was able to sit down and talk with

00:15:48.920 people who didn't agree with him. Later on, they're going to note that actually the great

00:15:54.040 thing about Buckley is that he was a gatekeeper, that he pushed people out of the right. He's not

00:16:00.060 even, they're not even going to deny that this is what happened. There are some people who try to

00:16:03.540 deny that Buckley was pushing out the old right, pushing out the actual right wing to create this

00:16:08.520 new neoconservative consensus, but they're going to acknowledge it and they're going to say that's

00:16:14.920 a good thing. So we end up at the scenario where, well, Buckley is good because he could have

00:16:20.900 conversations with anyone, but also Buckley is good because he wouldn't have conversations with

00:16:25.060 people who are right way. So when we say Buckley is good for having conversations, what we mean is

00:16:31.140 Buckley was good for having conversations only with people to his left. You're allowed to disagree

00:16:37.220 with conservatives and it's good to have conversations with people who disagree with

00:16:40.680 conservatives as long as they're to your left if they're to your right oh no no no so it's not some

00:16:46.640 universal principle it's not some idea that oh well it's good to have these conversations and

00:16:50.740 rational discussion and and the marketplace of ideas no no it's no we want a very carefully

00:16:55.960 curated garden in which leftists are the only people we're in dialogue with and that's really

00:17:03.340 interesting but like i said this is just the foreshadowing we'll get to that more depth when

00:17:07.740 they get to it um or go way back you know another hero of mine gk chesterton famously debated with

00:17:13.980 atheists across england you know and uh george bernard shaw but they were great friends they

00:17:20.300 went to the pub afterwards and they they literally danced on the tables something happened let's stay

00:17:26.780 with that for a second because we've talked about how the left went crazy so wokeism is kind of like

00:17:31.100 liberalism run amok, right? But we're witnessing now, as you've been saying, the elements of the

00:17:36.680 right going crazy and losing the narrative and turning to forms of anti-Semitism and turning

00:17:42.760 to all kinds of crazy. So this is going to be the only thing they mention. They're going to say the

00:17:48.700 right has gone crazy. The right has gone off the rails. It's lost the plot. And the only thing

00:17:56.140 they're going to mention is anti-semitism i i think you need more right like and we'll get into

00:18:03.680 all the anti-semitism accusations too but if you're telling me the right has gone crazy then

00:18:08.220 why can't you list anything else like i i believe there are things that bishop bear disagrees with

00:18:13.920 the right on for instance if i remember correctly bishop baron specifically called out the

00:18:20.020 deportations as being cruel and that the trump administration needed to tone him down now this

00:18:25.900 isn't surprising the catholic church is terrible on immigration the last couple popes just want to 1.00

00:18:30.920 get as many third worlders into the west as possible as many hostile muslims as many like 0.98

00:18:36.940 just people who you know hindus as many people who aren't christian and aren't american need to 0.97

00:18:41.300 be in america that's like the mission of the catholic church at this point and so it's not

00:18:46.380 surprising that a catholic bishop holds the same position of the pope that like yeah we really

00:18:51.320 should not be deporting people certainly shouldn't be doing mass deportations certainly shouldn't be

00:18:56.700 doing any things that are actually required to physically remove people who are breaking the law

00:19:00.660 and shouldn't be here he doesn't mention of course that like a lot of these people that the trump

00:19:04.540 administration has been targeting are like violent felons rapists drug dealers none of that matters 0.66

00:19:09.760 what matters is they made him you know feel bad in the fuzzy wuzzies and so like this conservative

00:19:15.580 catholic bishop in theory actually is pretty much for open borders and against the trump

00:19:20.880 administration but they don't bring that up they just bring up anti-semitism because like that's

00:19:27.240 the only thing they actually care about which we'll see as we go on in the world and and i think

00:19:31.480 you're right and say that charlie kirk was very helpful in keeping that together keeping it sane

00:19:36.880 yeah what happened on the right why why is the right splintering the crazy way that it is right

00:19:42.700 well again i would connect it to that commentary by jordan on drill rogan's show about what will

00:19:46.860 happen one day so we shouldn't we shouldn't sit here and be shocked by it i think so i will say

00:19:52.380 this um i i agree we should not be shocked that the right has changed over the years because we

00:20:00.140 saw that it wasn't working and jordan peterson did warn that if you continue to push the limits

00:20:05.400 if you continue to do this woke radical leftism you will see an equal and opposite reaction on

00:20:10.480 the right now the question that you have to ask yourself is always well what's worse right because

00:20:17.700 what's being presented here and what is so often presented by many conservatives sadly and

00:20:23.040 especially these like you know former leftists classical liberal uh you know uh types what

00:20:31.760 they're always kind of putting forward is the idea that you have to be careful with your wokeness

00:20:36.460 It's not because the wokeness itself is necessarily the worst thing, not because leftism run amok is the worst thing, not because the kind of people who would shoot Charlie Kirk in the neck are the worst thing.

00:20:46.200 The thing you have to watch out for is the reaction.

00:20:48.840 It's the reaction of the right that is actually dangerous.

00:20:52.120 That's the thing we're really trying to avoid.

00:20:53.780 The only reason not to go too far left is because eventually it will create the far right.

00:20:59.780 But the question is, at some point, is moving far to the right the correct response?

00:21:06.460 Like if the politicians in your country keep leaving the borders open, getting people killed, having drugs brought in, child trafficking, if they're supporting all of these insane things, endless foreign wars, if they're destroying the middle class, if they're going to war with white Christian males in America and trying to destroy their lives.

00:21:26.400 Like, at some point, isn't there a reasonable reaction that is further to the right than what we have?

00:21:32.960 Doesn't that make sense?

00:21:34.220 If the current conservative paradigm is not resolving these issues, never makes any progress, constantly gives up and destroys itself, then don't we need something else?

00:21:46.520 But no, that's the danger.

00:21:48.620 That's always the danger.

00:21:49.660 There's never a justifiable reaction, only a dangerous reaction.

00:21:54.640 because ultimately these guys want leftism they're they're leftists they're both leftists

00:22:00.440 as we'll get to you'll you'll see but that's their worst nightmare is not that the current regime the

00:22:07.220 current paradigm would be dangerous to americans that it would attack white people that it would

00:22:12.120 attack christians that would try to destroy the foundations of america no the danger is

00:22:17.920 that the right might react and that's that's the most dangerous thing in the world what we should

00:22:22.900 be shocked by is what i just referenced which is we should be shocked how it went on steroids once

00:22:27.840 charlie died that there was you know we had this weird moment if you remember those those few that

00:22:32.480 week after charlie was assassinated i happened to be in new york city on i was going for a 9-11

00:22:38.100 uh event so i was in new york city and i did all these 9-11 events and i did a whole bunch of stuff

00:22:44.860 on fox that day about charlie i was supposed to be there again for 9-11 but they ended up bringing

00:22:48.860 me in for all this Charlie stuff. And I remember thinking, and I was in New York City for 9-11.

00:22:53.220 I was there for it. My dad saw the second plane hit from his office. I can tell you all sorts

00:22:57.580 of stories about that. But I remember thinking that day, in a weird way, this feels bigger than

00:23:04.300 9-11. And I know that that is, in some sense, a crazy statement to make. But it felt certainly in

00:23:11.400 the moment, in the immediacy of it, it kind of felt right. But if you look at now what has

00:23:15.060 happened over the last eight months with a certain set of people. And if you want to name names,

00:23:19.600 we can name names. I don't even think it's necessary in some sense. People know who we're

00:23:22.440 talking about. Charlie wanted to keep MAGA alive and Charlie loved freedom. What was the shirt?

00:23:31.220 What did it say on his shirt? It said freedom. It said freedom. Freedom incorporates a lot of

00:23:38.040 different things. Yeah, it does incorporate a lot of different things. And that was what Charlie

00:23:43.540 wanted and that i think that it's not really overstating in any way that charlie kirk was

00:23:50.040 a key figure if not the key figure in holding the maga coalition together and keeping the disparate

00:23:57.660 parts uh together coalition politics are always volatile and if you don't have a guy who can

00:24:04.600 drive that you know someone like trump who has the dynamism and then someone like charlie who

00:24:09.900 has the relatability and the ability to network and kind of make you make these people sit down

00:24:16.140 together and work together if you don't have it coalition politics can break apart very very

00:24:20.520 quickly however you'll notice dave does the illusion of and some people on the right we

00:24:25.380 don't need to name names and fine you know you don't have to but we know who he's you know we

00:24:29.500 know who he's talking about we know he's talking about you know charlie kurt or sorry um tucker

00:24:34.760 Carlson, Candace Owens, you know, these kind of people, but also like Marjorie Taylor Green

00:24:39.240 and all these other people. And the funny thing is that he says, you know, Charlie was all about

00:24:47.280 freedom. He was about sitting down and having these discussions and working these things out.

00:24:51.520 But of course, that's not how Dave feels about any of those people, right? Like Charlie Kirk

00:24:56.180 fought to keep Tucker Carlson on stage, despite his criticisms of Israel. Charlie Kirk fought

00:25:04.120 to bring Dave Smith in and have a debate with a guy like Josh Hammer, despite all the flack he

00:25:10.440 was catching from big Jewish donors, pro-Israel donors. That's what Charlie Kirk was fighting

00:25:15.840 for, and Dave doesn't agree with that at all, and neither does Bishop Barron. For all their talk

00:25:19.920 about liberalism and the need for William F. Beckley to sit down and talk to these leftists

00:25:24.680 and even the communists that G.K. Chesterton was debating, and they'd go down drinking later,

00:25:29.300 they don't believe any of that stuff. They'll debate communists all day, they'll debate atheists.

00:25:34.120 But you know who they won't? 0.78

00:25:36.500 Truck people who question Israel.

00:25:40.280 That's actually where they stop.

00:25:43.200 They talk to, I don't know, 0.89

00:25:45.760 a guy who pretends to be gay married while purchasing children 0.72

00:25:49.360 before they talk to somebody who disagrees with Israel. 0.65

00:25:54.040 It's kind of telling, right?

00:25:55.660 Like, oh, we need free debate.

00:25:57.740 We need these open lines of communication with the left.

00:26:00.540 But not if they don't like one country, not if they think that that country has a little too much influence, not if they think ultimately we shouldn't go to war on behalf of that country.

00:26:11.880 No, no, no.

00:26:13.000 Those people, we can't talk to them, even though they're like the most mainstream of conservatives.

00:26:18.720 Tucker Carlson was the most recognizable and probably still is the most recognizable right wing pundit, maybe after Charlie Kirk in the world.

00:26:26.840 and yet off limits can't talk to him he defined mainstream conservative for decades

00:26:35.100 but tucker carlson is off limits in a way that a radical communist is not why

00:26:42.760 israel that's it that's it that's the entire reason they don't give a single other one

00:26:49.180 there could be other ones i know they disagree on other things they don't even bother to bring

00:26:54.020 anything else up. That's all they got. Right. A lot of different things that maybe the secular

00:27:00.380 lib coming into this movement feels differently about than the Christian conservative,

00:27:06.800 but can they exist in the same country? Yes. And it's America. And America is basically the only

00:27:11.980 place they can do that. And if we give that up, we give everything away. Again, Dave believes

00:27:18.080 that the atheist liberal should be able to coexist

00:27:22.000 in a country with the Christian conservative,

00:27:26.080 but not with somebody who is a Christian conservative

00:27:29.580 who doesn't like that we're sending billions of dollars to Israel.

00:27:35.540 Charlie Kirk didn't believe this.

00:27:37.840 Charlie Kirk clearly and repeatedly

00:27:40.980 said that our connection with Israel was unhealthy,

00:27:44.940 that we needed to start thinking about it in different ways,

00:27:48.080 i think he still loved israel i'm not one of these people who's like charlie kirk was completely

00:27:52.360 turning on israel and hated hated benjamin netanyahu and was you know planning to like

00:27:57.520 you know denounce israel i i from what i see i don't think that's true i do think he was

00:28:02.740 rethinking his conservatism i think he was becoming far more of a nationalist and a true

00:28:08.000 american first nationalist in that sense i think that he wanted to see some changes in the way we

00:28:14.000 interacted with israel but i still think he was a dispensationalist i still think he was a zionist

00:28:18.920 i still think he held many pro-israel attitudes but charlie kirk while holding all of those

00:28:24.180 attitudes was able to talk to tucker carlson was able to talk to dave smith

00:28:28.340 why why is he able to do that but dave rubin is it why does dave rubin get to draw that line where

00:28:36.440 charlie kirk didn't especially while he's sitting here lionizing charlie kirk if you really believed

00:28:41.780 Charlie Kirk's values, practice what you preach. Go talk to Tucker. Go talk to Dave Smith. I got

00:28:49.040 a feeling Dave will talk to you. If you will, I'll host you. No problem. But you're not going to do

00:28:55.860 that because you don't really believe in Charlie Kirk's message. Charlie Kirk was pro-Israel,

00:29:01.720 but he actually believed in free speech and putting America first. So he was willing to

00:29:07.760 have these conversations willing to hear these opposing voices willing to be swayed by many of

00:29:12.820 these arguments and dave rubin won't hear any of them he won't talk to any of these people they're 0.99

00:29:18.360 unnameable why why are they unnameable but a radical leftist who wants white people dead you 0.64

00:29:24.720 can have a conversation with them what is that i think we know so it was literally on his chest

00:29:32.500 when he died so i don't think anyone thought it would have broken down so quickly but now i'll

00:29:36.640 give you i'm not a black pill guy i'm a white pill guy i always consider myself a world-weary

00:29:40.420 optimist but but i have to be an optimist as i as i suspect you are because how how else could

00:29:45.600 we do this for something like this for a living how could we sit here and talk about things if

00:29:49.840 we didn't think we could angle them to be a little bit better the white pill on this

00:29:53.000 is that when the left was going crazy 10 years ago and obviously i was right in the middle of that

00:29:58.960 there were almost no liberals willing to stand up against it yeah there were a couple sam harris

00:30:04.880 Bill Maher, Jordan, although he wasn't liberal truly, but he was kind of right there. There were

00:30:09.560 a few people willing to stand up against it. What I have seen on the right in this past

00:30:15.460 eight months or so since Charlie's death is extraordinary. The right is fighting. The right

00:30:21.020 is saying there are some things that are not acceptable and ushering in ancient hatreds that

00:30:27.620 we should have left a long time ago and the worst ideas of all time. No, we're not going to do it.

00:30:34.880 So, again, I want to make I'll just do the disclaimer because, you know, we shouldn't have to say this, but I will just because it's important and I want to make sure everything's in context.

00:30:46.200 You should not have ethnic hatred for other people, as especially as Christians.

00:30:50.560 You should not do that.

00:30:52.720 That doesn't mean that, you know, everybody needs to come to the United States.

00:30:56.920 Everybody's to live here.

00:30:57.680 you have to live around everybody, but you should not be harboring ethnic hatred towards anyone,

00:31:02.520 including Jewish people, in your heart. It's unhealthy for you. It's a sin. You shouldn't

00:31:07.320 do it as a Christian. Bad practice. That said, at no point has any of these, either of these 1.00

00:31:14.960 gentlemen, entertained the idea that there are any legitimate criticisms of Israel. And by the way,

00:31:20.520 again, we've lionized Charlie Kirk, but this is what Charlie Kirk believed. He believed there

00:31:24.920 were legitimate criticisms of israel again he supported israel he loved israel he loved jewish

00:31:31.520 people he didn't want to see anti-semitism but that did not keep him from having real

00:31:36.420 serious critiques of israel that seem to be growing day by day other than his personal

00:31:42.360 relationship with charlie kirk if charlie kirk were someone else and was someone else was spouting

00:31:48.380 Charlie Kirk's positions, Dave Rubin would call him an anti-Semite. He would. He would.

00:31:56.600 If Charlie's words about Jewish donors threatening him, if Charlie's words about needing to decouple 0.55

00:32:02.160 from Israel because this isn't healthy, that we're being driven to war by the Israeli lobby,

00:32:07.140 if those were just disembodied comments, in fact, I would love, if anybody can get Dave Rubin on an

00:32:12.980 interview or something, I would love to see this. Hey, Dave, I just want to read you these statements.

00:32:17.180 this is what Candace Owen just said

00:32:19.300 we should be careful

00:32:21.200 we should probably stop giving money to Israel 1.00

00:32:23.120 we should be careful about being driven into war 0.74

00:32:25.500 by Israeli interests and foreign interests 0.84

00:32:27.240 Jewish donors

00:32:29.060 will attack you if you question 0.71

00:32:31.560 Israel and they'll withdraw your funds

00:32:33.160 can you believe Candace Owen said that 1.00

00:32:35.400 and he'd be like yeah what an anti-Semitic

00:32:37.000 actually these are Charlie Kirk's words 0.98

00:32:38.840 I would love to see

00:32:41.540 that play out

00:32:42.200 but he never entertains that there are any

00:32:45.180 legitimate

00:32:45.840 questions about Israel and our relationship with it. It's impossible. You have to be an anti-Semite

00:32:52.480 or you have to be 100% blindly pro-Israel. Those are the only options. And they will never present 0.88

00:32:58.180 another option during this discussion. And that's in no way a mistake. That is a tactical frame.

00:33:04.580 Okay. The people who are trying to manipulate us in the United States want you to either have to

00:33:13.420 be an anti-Semite or extremely pro-Israel. They want you to have to be a hater of Jewish people

00:33:18.500 or someone who unquestionably supports the secular government of Benjamin Netanyahu.

00:33:25.580 Those are your only two options. Because if there's a third sane reasonable option

00:33:30.580 that pretty much everyone would agree on if it was available, well, then the support for Israel

00:33:36.500 would probably erode. So you need the radical hateful people. Now, again, there are hateful 0.67

00:33:42.940 people out there and you just shouldn't engage with it i'm not i'm not pretending that there

00:33:46.940 isn't hatred for jews out there i'm not pretending that that isn't bad but it is very clear that this

00:33:52.660 binary dynamic is intentional that that is what has to be the case for this whole thing to continue

00:34:00.260 to operate and i think it's a very very bad faith the fight on the right that did not happen on the

00:34:06.380 left and and i believe that the right will beat this thing i think the polling absolutely indicates

00:34:11.580 that yeah trump clearly actually the polling shows that israel's reputation is collapsing

00:34:18.360 like especially among young conservatives the swings are drastic so yeah you might still have

00:34:27.180 israel being popular with kind of the boomers and some of the gen xers in conservatism but

00:34:32.260 everybody under that everybody millennial under and even a lot of the gen xers are saying yeah

00:34:38.100 i'm done with this like actually just put america first so the polls don't reflect this like

00:34:42.840 currently trump's most hardcore supporters the people who are you know like very diehard maga

00:34:49.680 they still are with him on most things but if you poll individually on support for israel

00:34:56.180 it's not looking good so actually i think dave is being a little uh optimistic for his uh possible

00:35:03.420 victory in the long term really has chosen the right side of this so to speak so i think there's

00:35:08.380 a much better chance the right will survive this and not become exactly what the life has become

00:35:15.340 that's interesting see a bit in that context about anti-semitism because we reference buckley

00:35:20.300 already and you know as everyone points out back in the 50s buckley made this decision

00:35:25.020 to kind of extricate from his movement the john birch society anti-semitic elements and he said

00:35:31.100 again i've had people from the john birch society on it's kind of funny um this is a a silly history

00:35:38.620 but also as as i said our previous comments foreshadowed where this was going to go the

00:35:44.520 the amazing thing that they loved about umf buckley is he would just talk to these radical

00:35:48.900 communists he would talk to these insane leftists these radical progressives who ultimately probably

00:35:54.560 supported like violent terrorism as many of them did but he could have a beer with them at the end 0.90

00:35:59.360 of the day he could sit down and have these conversations but but i'm glad he purged all

00:36:04.260 these people who weren't big on israel and the john birch society because it was anti-communist

00:36:09.560 hey why why would william f buckley purge one of the most anti-communist organizations in the

00:36:18.860 united states that's that's a good question to ask yourself why why would the leader of the

00:36:22.680 conservative movement uh purge the most anti-communist people in the movement i wonder

00:36:29.260 what that means i wonder what the motivation there could be i'll let you stew on that one

00:36:34.120 for a little bit uh so their whole their whole praise of buckley was his openness is willing

00:36:39.860 to debate is willing to discuss but again as i said before except only with people to his left

00:36:44.920 never with people to his right they praise him for cutting them out of the conversation they

00:36:50.040 praise him for setting that boundary that gatekeeper now again you can feel however you

00:36:54.500 want about gatekeeping i think there is some level gatekeeping that's necessary to all movements

00:36:58.040 but it's very clear who they think has to be gatekept not the leftists not the progressives

00:37:03.000 not the communists not the abortionists definitely not the gay marriage guys no no no destroying 0.67

00:37:09.660 marriage murdering children uh you know subverting the entire country into communism we can have 0.75

00:37:15.260 conversations with those folks uh but i don't want to send four billion dollars to israel nope 0.58

00:37:21.160 no talking to you no sir out of bounds no discussion that direction cthulhu swims

00:37:27.620 slowly but he always swims to the left look that the movement i'm advocating here kind of classical

00:37:35.160 conservatism should not include those elements and it was a very important decision you made

00:37:39.040 a lot of people critiqued him and said i'm done with you and you become you know a radical yourself

00:37:45.240 and but buckley stuck with his guns it was the right decision um the anti-semitism on i mean

00:37:51.480 both the left and the right to be honest about it but um what's the right move now would it be for

00:37:56.920 people i was on the sensible right to say i look do what buckley did you're not in the this is just

00:38:02.360 not appropriate well the left we can do the left version because it's very easy quickly i mean the

00:38:06.440 left basically jews are thought of as white but even sort of extra white and successful right and

00:38:13.880 And successful and all those things.

00:38:15.240 And it also, what really doesn't make sense is the Jews are, the Jews in some sense, if 0.83

00:38:19.860 you were to look at one group, are the ultimate minority because they're.

00:38:23.200 So it's really interesting here. 0.99

00:38:25.160 Dave Rubin says that the reason that the left hates the Jews is because they're white. 0.89

00:38:30.240 And to be fair, this is a pretty common line. 0.96

00:38:32.780 It's not just exclusive to Dave Rubin.

00:38:36.060 And, you know, there's some truth to this. 0.98

00:38:38.180 Like many of the arguments used against Israel are those used against Western whites, right? 0.87

00:38:44.460 Like, oh, you know, they are colonialists and they are occupiers and they're, you know, all these things, right?

00:38:52.500 And so you can see the flow of the argument there.

00:38:55.900 And again, I think there is some logic behind it.

00:38:58.200 But you'll notice that Dave never addresses, and most people who bring this up never address, what that means. 0.95

00:39:06.320 oh the left only hates jews because they're white uh so they actually hate his white people

00:39:13.380 so they're not anti-semitic they're anti-white right like that that's the logical follow 0.99

00:39:21.080 right like stay with me here if if the left hates jews because jews are white

00:39:28.060 then the left isn't anti-semitic it's it's anti-white and so the real problem is not

00:39:36.420 anti-semitism it's anti-whiteness but dave is never going to do that because it's it's all

00:39:43.380 about ethnic narcissism right like it's all well no my people well if your people are being attacked

00:39:49.240 because they're thought of as being part of a wider collective white identity it isn't the

00:39:54.620 attack on whiteness and not Judaism per se, if you're receiving the same attack that Western

00:39:59.900 whites are receiving for being colonialist, you know, expansionist powers and all that stuff, 0.54

00:40:04.700 aren't you being attacked as a white person and not as a Jew? 0.92

00:40:09.980 But no, it's all about, it's all about Jewishness. It's the victimhood of the Jewish people. That's 0.99

00:40:16.800 the issue. So even though he's admitting that Jewish people are being seen as white and being

00:40:21.560 attacked as white he does not address it as anti-whiteness he addresses it as anti-semitism

00:40:26.860 now i guess it could be anti-semitism inside of anti-whiteness you could say like okay well

00:40:32.180 there's like a you know like a venn diagram here or something or you know there's layers that's

00:40:38.000 fine like it's jewishness is part of a set of whiteness but we'll see at the end of this

00:40:43.440 interview he doesn't actually believe that uh but uh in his argument now the argument is one

00:40:49.460 that says the left is opposing jews because they are white but he will not then follow the logic

00:40:55.980 because that removes like the thing he actually cares about he doesn't care about the state of

00:41:04.120 how whites are treated he cares about how jews are treated apparently exclusively they're still

00:41:10.600 here the jews are still here after thousands of years right the all you know people always talk

00:41:15.260 about oh there's all these countries that kick the jews out as if it's the minority's fault

00:41:18.940 well most of those empires and countries don't exist anymore so you might want to think about

00:41:23.880 what happens when you start turning on the jews because it's not that you're turning on the

00:41:27.500 i mean most empires through history don't exist anymore that that's how it works like

00:41:34.380 there aren't a lot of continuous empires left from like i don't know the 1500s or the 1200s

00:41:41.740 something so just saying like all those empires fell well i guess like because all empires fall 0.93

00:41:49.580 i mean if you want to link it to kicking jewish people out of their country i okay but like i

00:41:55.020 think historically that just doesn't track again if we understand that all nations and empires

00:42:01.260 rise and fall but that that's just a nitpick about history jews only you're usually turning

00:42:07.740 on all of the good principles that allow for minorities and other people to exist in your 0.65

00:42:13.180 nations and that's not good for nations on the other side um so again if you take this if you

00:42:21.480 take this argument and just remove the element of judaism from it the argument here is like well

00:42:28.980 you need principles that allow minorities to exist inside your society i mean there might be an

00:42:37.400 argument for that but like isn't that just kind of a multiculturalism aren't you just kind of

00:42:42.980 making the argument for multiculturalism and if you exclude multiculturalism then it doesn't work

00:42:48.740 i don't know again like when you inject you know the history of the jews and everything into it

00:42:54.460 okay now you understand the emotional charge but if if you extract that and you just look at the

00:42:59.380 raw argument it seems like he's just arguing for like this kind of globalist multiculturalism like

00:43:05.420 You have to have principles that ensure the continued flourishing of minorities in your

00:43:10.860 society.

00:43:11.520 Now, I do think that Western societies have actually been very good for minorities, but 0.89

00:43:15.600 there's a reason why, and I think it's because of the people in the West.

00:43:19.820 I think that actually the values and customs and traditions and populations of the West

00:43:24.040 have been more welcoming to minorities and treated them better because of the character

00:43:30.980 of those people, the character of the Westerners, the Europeans who occupy those lands. If you

00:43:38.180 reduce the number of Europeans who believe that thing, the Christians, the people who have that 0.84

00:43:43.700 culture, that tradition, if you remove the people who have that tradition from the land and you 0.98

00:43:47.160 replace them with all these minorities that are so much better off in those places, you lose that 1.00

00:43:51.920 tolerance, actually. That's a problem that we are going to address, I suppose. 1.00

00:43:56.440 So it's very obvious why they don't fit. And then to the backdrop of October 7th, that they've created just the grandest of all lies related to the founding of Israel and the connection that the Jewish people have to that land. And that, I mean, we could do a quick history lesson. In some sense, it's boring, but like that a state of Palestine never existed for a people known as Palestinians. 0.99

00:44:17.780 and the coin, people always show you the coin of Palestine

00:44:20.480 and it quite literally, it's the British mandate of Palestine,

00:44:23.440 not a country, which is why it didn't have a prime minister

00:44:25.760 and that in Hebrew, it says the land of Israel on it

00:44:28.140 and all of these things.

00:44:29.240 But because they marched through the institutions,

00:44:32.160 they taught people this incredible lie

00:44:34.520 that somehow the Jews, Jesus, where was Jesus born?

00:44:39.280 Where did the story of Hanukkah take place?

00:44:41.420 It's Judea and Samaria, which is now,

00:44:43.980 now unfortunately, people call it the West Bank.

00:44:46.600 it's just the west bank of the jordan river um so ilhan omar or so this is one of those scenarios

00:44:55.000 where a guy who doesn't know much about history insults other people for not knowing much about

00:44:59.640 history so yes like obviously you know the original founding of israel was based on god

00:45:09.420 granting the holy land to the Jewish people at that time. Now, the land has been called Palestine

00:45:17.460 for a very long time, pretty much since, you know, especially since the Jews were expelled

00:45:22.320 by the Romans. The Jews were occupied in that land for, again, centuries. Like, you know, the Israeli

00:45:30.600 occupation by Romans and other forces were constant. You know, the story of the Bible

00:45:36.800 is are the hebrews uh you know kind of being conquered taken out of israel having israel 0.63

00:45:42.680 taken from them for them disobeying god returning back to israel rebuilding things betraying god

00:45:48.300 again getting thrown back out of israel like this is not new this is like this is not something that

00:45:53.780 just happened out of nowhere and certainly since the roman uh expulsion uh created the larger

00:46:00.700 diaspora that has been the case and yeah there have been sephardic jews living in that land for

00:46:05.820 long time but there have been many other peoples including the palestinians living there and saying

00:46:10.960 like well because they didn't have an independent government they weren't real okay so because king

00:46:16.500 herod was actually just a pawn of the romans israel wasn't real at that time under roman

00:46:22.480 occupation is that what we're going with that anytime the jews were kicked out of the land

00:46:27.860 they no longer had a right to that land like that doesn't make any sense like again i have no problem

00:46:34.560 with israel existing as a state as long as they can defend their borders because that's what

00:46:39.740 actually creates a state if you with your own sovereignty can fight off your enemies

00:46:44.460 and and and hold you know the the land cohesively through force that's what actually creates the

00:46:51.380 right to exist and everything else is just noise everything else is just you know oh well this that

00:46:57.320 sorry like obviously that's not the case and if dave is going with like well the scripture says 0.97

00:47:05.240 that they have access to land well dave you don't believe in the scriptures because you're gay

00:47:08.920 married and you bought kids like so the bible's only right when it's promising people of your 0.86

00:47:15.620 genetic lineage land in the middle east but you can ignore all the stuff about marrying men and

00:47:21.560 you know buying children from their mothers that doesn't make any sense but for dave like

00:47:28.940 it's it's a useful tool it's useful in that time in that place so he just pretends like the history

00:47:36.240 of you know that the area he is now referring to doesn't exist that there's like this again

00:47:42.560 he accuses other people of having this weird twisted history but his is completely discombobulated

00:47:47.940 Yeah, there wasn't, under the mandate of British Palestine, an independent Palestinian government. But then the British handed Israel to Jewish people through the Balfour Declaration. Why was it more legitimate when the Balfour Declaration and less legitimate when it was British mandate Palestine?

00:48:08.940 Why does not having a separate government at that one moment create that?

00:48:12.880 And anyway, this is a misunderstanding of much of Arab culture, much of Muslim culture when it comes to the nation state.

00:48:20.260 The nation state is a Western construction.

00:48:22.840 Many Muslims don't really have that. 1.00

00:48:25.140 They go from kind of the tribal level to the caliphate level. 1.00

00:48:28.200 It's tribes or empires.

00:48:29.800 And because we're kind of Western and we got used to this nation state idea, we're like, oh, well, that's the only thing that grants legitimacy. 0.59

00:48:35.960 Now, again, Israel fought and won a war, and so they own the land. The end. Like, I'm not here to, you know, create some alternative argument for Israel not being a valid country. It is. But not for any of the reasons that Dave is mentioning, because he doesn't want to mention, like, the ones that really matter, the ones where you shoot people. 0.82

00:48:56.860 Dita Talib or even AOC, they'll, on Hanukkah, they'll wish Jews a happy Hanukkah. And then 0.90

00:49:02.760 by the next day, they don't want any Jews living in the place that Hanukkah took place. It was 0.96

00:49:07.260 literally the Jews defending their land against, okay, against the Greeks. Okay. So that just 0.81

00:49:12.700 doesn't work. It just, none of it works. There's so many lies and the intersexual calculator

00:49:16.460 doesn't work for the left. Now on the right, on the right, I think there's a couple of things

00:49:20.840 happening. One is that on the right, there is, there is, I think you can be a principled

00:49:25.040 isolationist i'm just talking about a pure political sense you can be an absolute isolationist

00:49:30.140 america should be more basically like sweden or something or switzerland which switzerland

00:49:34.060 and we're just not going to have anything to do with the rest of the world and we're anti-war

00:49:38.280 and all those things i think that's a perfectly fine position i suppose so but i don't think it's

00:49:42.240 the most mature position i don't think it really equates with reality in some sense just saying

00:49:46.780 you're anti-war doesn't get you no war and in some sense it probably gets you a really bad war

00:49:52.320 on your shores because obviously there are bad guys out there. So Dave says one thing that's

00:49:57.660 true here and one thing that's false. So I'll go with the thing he said that's true first that I

00:50:01.660 agree with. I am not like constitutionally anti-war. And I don't mean like the written

00:50:07.360 constitution. I mean, I don't think that it is a bedrock principle that like we should just never

00:50:13.600 go to war. Like war is a reality. It's a human reality. States have to defend themselves. And

00:50:19.140 sometimes they have to go beyond defending themselves to secure resources or other other

00:50:23.440 you know disagreements like sometimes that's necessary and so i'm not a pacifist i'm not a

00:50:29.760 completely anti-war guy so i'll agree with them there like if you if you're this like total

00:50:34.620 pacifist total anti-war completely and actually anti-isolationist i do think that's a naive

00:50:41.220 worldview that said what dave is explaining is a worldview that was held by george washington

00:50:48.040 that George Washington expressed as a founding father, maybe the most important founding father,

00:50:54.060 the first president of our country, that you should not make alliances with foreign countries

00:51:00.120 like, I don't know, Israel, and you should not make them a favored nation. You should not have 0.95

00:51:05.480 nations that you hate. That's what George Washington also said. You shouldn't hate Israel,

00:51:08.900 but you also shouldn't love it. It's just a foreign country. You should do trade with it, 1.00

00:51:12.840 and that's about it. That was the American foreign policy ideal under George Washington.

00:51:18.040 That's what he warned everyone that they should do.

00:51:21.720 But Dave would now hold that position as some kind of immature isolationist position while

00:51:28.100 claiming to care about the founding and the principles in America and the beauty and all

00:51:31.860 these things.

00:51:32.720 So he's chastising people for holding the principles that he then says we should uphold

00:51:37.480 later on because he doesn't know the principles or he only wants the updated liberal version

00:51:42.200 of those principles while pretending to be a conservative.

00:51:44.200 But I think some sense of that leads to, oh, Israel's in the Middle East, and there's always wars in the Middle East, so there's some weird isolationist connection to that.

00:51:54.580 Then there's some weird things that you can probably speak to better than I can related to replacement theology and things of this nature.

00:52:02.800 I've never once had any issue with any of my Christian friends or my Catholic friends

00:52:10.120 or any denomination thereof related to being Jewish and that.

00:52:15.420 Like, it's always, you know, my best friends to this day.

00:52:18.040 He talks about it here for a second.

00:52:19.780 When we're trying to roast a lamb, we would put a lifelong friendship that hopefully will

00:52:23.880 take us into our 90s.

00:52:25.540 So I think there's some weird religious stuff happening there.

00:52:29.760 And then I think there's just something that is baked in unfair.

00:52:32.800 So, uh, he talks about the idea that there's some kind of theological issue he doesn't get

00:52:41.060 very clearly, right? But he is talking to a theologian. So he could have asked,

00:52:45.820 because here's the thing. If Bishop Barron is an actual Catholic, like if he actually believes in

00:52:51.800 Catholic doctrine, he believes in the replacement theology that Dave Rubin is talking about. 0.54

00:52:58.540 so dispensationalism is the idea that the jews have like this separate deal with god and they

00:53:07.520 have this separate history that they get to move along the separate track and again this is not all

00:53:13.080 dispensationalists there's a lot of nuance here i've done entire episodes on dispensationalism

00:53:17.400 if you need to go back watch those but there i should say there's a subset of dispensationalists

00:53:21.820 who entirely believe that like basically jews have their own deal with god and that covenant's

00:53:26.380 not broken and they just do their own thing but the actual belief of the church proper for basically

00:53:34.260 its entire history until dispensationalism kind of came up in the 1800s was the idea that the church

00:53:42.440 was the new israel now they don't call it replacement theology because they're not replacing

00:53:48.500 israel because jews can be part of the new israel too that's the beautiful thing if you go to

00:53:54.900 Galatians and actually read the Bible, I believe it's chapter three, it talks about how the Jews

00:54:01.060 and the Gentiles were grafted in. They are a new church. They are the new Israel. There is neither

00:54:07.880 Greek nor Jew. There's neither Jew nor Gentile. They are all one in Christ. So there are no more 1.00

00:54:17.160 jews because everyone is israel under christ you're not replacing the jews the jews get to 0.78

00:54:25.960 be part of the new israel if they accept christ they fulfill that and they stop being jews and

00:54:32.400 they start becoming christians that's what bishop baron as a catholic should believe

00:54:39.100 but you'll notice that the professional public theologian does not stop dave rubin to explain

00:54:46.640 that here that's the doctrine of his church that's what he believes but he doesn't care

00:54:53.340 because the problem is not properly articulating the doctrines of the catholic church

00:54:58.980 or christianity proper up until the 1850s or whatever the most important thing is being

00:55:06.020 angry at anti-semitism he's a he's a catholic bishop he can he can explain the problem right

00:55:13.320 here and he just doesn't do it why there's only one answer he doesn't want to interrupt the flow

00:55:21.420 of bagging on anti-semitism he's not going to give the anti-semites the ammunition of like well

00:55:27.300 actually this is christian doctrine and actually this is correct and this is what i believe like

00:55:32.640 he could say that and still say hey you shouldn't hate jewish people they should be they should all

00:55:36.500 become christians we should all be grafted in like you could just stop and say that but he doesn't

00:55:40.400 because it's not about actually sharing those ideas he doesn't want to differ with dave here

00:55:46.600 just like he's never going to bring up dave's gay marriage his fake marriage he's never going to

00:55:51.880 bring up dave's human trafficking his purchase of children his use of surrogacy because he's not

00:55:58.340 really having a conversation where they are allowed to disagree this is just all of us

00:56:04.240 nodding together so this conversation this grand conversation of liberals and conservatives

00:56:09.100 sitting down and having this conversation and understanding things. It's not happening.

00:56:14.200 These are two liberals agreeing with each other to the point where Bishop Barron doesn't even

00:56:18.560 correct Dave on his Catholic doctrine. Fortunately, which is that, you know, Jews just celebrated 1.00

00:56:25.940 Passover as Christians were celebrating Easter. And Passover is the story of bondage to freedom, 1.00

00:56:32.600 right? And within that story, if you sit at the Passover table, no matter what Haggadah you're

00:56:38.400 reading they talk about how in every age someone will come someone will rise up to destroy us

00:56:44.300 it's baked into the code in some sense this is so unhealthy man this is so unhealthy okay so this is

00:56:52.000 and you know roseanne barr has talked about this there's been many people who have who have kind

00:56:57.080 of admitted what dave is admitting now that deep down in like these gatherings like the thing that

00:57:04.020 is taught to many jews in the west in america there's other places is that the people around

00:57:09.180 you ultimately want to kill you that like someone is going to like rise up every generation and try 0.99

00:57:14.680 to eliminate you now you can understand after the holocaust and many other pogroms that jewish 0.97

00:57:20.880 people have had their wariness to i guess some level of this but if you teach every young jewish 0.97

00:57:28.080 person that the whole world is going to rise up and try to kill them at any given moment that this 0.70

00:57:32.860 is baked in you heard those words and guys like josh hammer have said this that europeans have 0.96

00:57:38.540 anti-semitism in their dna and clearly this is something that's being taught to young jewish

00:57:44.520 people so they grow up with this idea everyone is coming to kill you this is just a natural cycle 0.91

00:57:51.880 of history this is like built in to the europeans or the west they're just going to come and murder

00:57:56.440 you and you have to be prepared for this and so he says the same anti-semitism on the right is

00:58:00.580 just unavoidable because like that's just how western people are that's how christians are 0.99

00:58:06.000 that's how white people are they're just so one of them is going to pop up and try to murder you 0.92

00:58:09.840 that's not healthy man that's a terrible thing to treat people to teach people now again you 0.98

00:58:16.100 shouldn't have ethnic hatred in your heart you should i guess watch out for a rise of hatred

00:58:21.140 for any given group so when they're attacking say white people you should be aware that that's

00:58:26.140 probably because then they want to eventually hurt white people if they're attacking jewish 0.93

00:58:28.940 people eventually they want to hurt jewish people that's fine it's fine to be aware of that

00:58:32.800 but if you taught if if people in the west taught their children if white europeans taught their 0.96

00:58:39.500 children everybody else is trying to kill you there's just it's baked into everybody else's 0.73

00:58:44.340 dna that it's baked into the code that they're going to come for you in the night and try to

00:58:48.880 kill you i mean geez man that's a terrible way to live and you can see how that could produce some

00:58:54.040 really, really bad incentives. And Jews are the canary in the coal mine. So if you're going to, 1.00

00:59:01.300 let's put it this way, here's the simplest way, and then I'll stop. If you're on the side of the

00:59:06.000 Jew haters right now, or what is now becoming really anti-American too, that's the weird thing. 0.97

00:59:11.200 It would be like, it would be one thing if you, okay, you just hate Jews. Well, as long as you're 0.95

00:59:14.460 not attacking them, I'm fine with, you can hate whoever you want, but it usually doesn't just

00:59:18.440 stop with that, right? But now they're connecting it to deep anti-American stuff and kind of pro-Iran

00:59:23.260 and pro-Russia and a whole bunch of other things but this is what I would say if now this is again

00:59:28.860 I think that Dave's framing is a little silly here but I'll say this there is a strain on

00:59:37.080 some of these people who oppose Israel to again take it too far get into actual hatred of Jewish

00:59:45.340 people again any hatred of any ethnicity not good for your soul but also to then see because other

00:59:53.200 people are acting against those interests, they must be on your side. And that's bad, right? Like

00:59:58.880 you shouldn't suddenly become pro-Russia or something, you know, side with some Muslim

01:00:05.160 country or something because you think that Israel has undue influence in the United States. That's

01:00:10.180 the wrong reaction. The right reaction is to say, I want all foreign influence out of the United 0.98

01:00:13.980 States. I don't want Russian influence. I don't want Chinese influence. I don't want Ukrainian 0.96

01:00:17.720 influence. I don't want Qatari influence. I don't want Israeli influence. That's the correct 0.99

01:00:21.660 response it's to be pro your country not to then trade israel for some other country that should

01:00:27.660 have foreign influence and so dave is talking about that phenomenon and i do think it's bad

01:00:31.980 because it's just morally bad strategically bad also because it gives fuel to comments like dave

01:00:37.780 is making now because there is some level of truth to this however what then you know dave

01:00:43.920 then applies is like oh well then they must be pro iran and this is what we get is then it's oh

01:00:49.080 well if you oppose the war with iran for any reason you must be pro-iranian you must you must 0.68

01:00:54.240 love the mullahs you must love islam you know sharia law because you don't want us to constantly 0.99

01:00:59.860 go to war in the middle east and that's ugly and stupid but that's what it's supposed to be 0.99

01:01:04.340 dave wants this thought terminating cliche so you shouldn't go out and support other countries over 0.99

01:01:09.520 america like that's just true that should be a baseline understanding especially as like a

01:01:14.100 nationalists, America first, terrible idea. However, on top of the principle, you shouldn't

01:01:19.160 do it strategically because then it gives guys like Dave Rubin, this stupid rhetorical point 0.86

01:01:23.800 that like, it shouldn't make any sense, but because there's a certain level of this in 0.89

01:01:28.400 existence, he does get to stand on this footing. So don't make the mistake of giving a guy like

01:01:32.700 Dave Rubin, this platform, you know, that this handhold, because he will then use it and people 1.00

01:01:38.520 will listen you think that if you can remove jews from public life altogether or you can 0.99

01:01:44.560 we can do some pogroms or whatever you want to do and that america will be better or safer on 0.94

01:01:50.880 the other side it's crazy well yeah it's crazy because you said the most extreme insane thing

01:01:57.120 right like there are plenty of people who just want us to stop sending money to israel and stop

01:02:03.220 fighting on behalf of Israel and that's all they want they don't wish Israel any ill will they

01:02:09.640 don't want to like see Jewish people purged out wiped out they're not calling for pogroms but he

01:02:16.200 again couches this as this is the only option either you're entirely on board with all the

01:02:22.040 influence that Israel has in the United States with everything we do for Israel or you want to 0.99

01:02:27.040 murder all the Jews those are the only two options it's dishonest it's ugly but it's effective 0.66

01:02:33.080 again because that binary setup that binary frame is critical you can't just be a good 0.99

01:02:38.560 person who loves america and says israel best of luck but you don't get our money anymore we're not

01:02:42.960 sending any troops over there fight your own wars that's not possible you can't have that moral 0.64

01:02:48.960 position it's either complete extreme jew hatred or whatever israel says goes it's not because of 0.74

01:02:55.860 what the jews will do to you it's because there's something there's something tied to the fabric of

01:03:02.520 reality related to all that the story of the jews is the story of it's the story of man in a way 0.98

01:03:10.080 and then okay so there's something tied to the fabric of reality

01:03:15.980 jews are the story of mankind all right that's a little um

01:03:23.520 ethnocentric don't you think like don't get me wrong i think everyone should

01:03:29.260 have a healthy respect and love

01:03:31.360 for themselves, their culture, their heritage.

01:03:33.660 They should have

01:03:34.300 a pride in their identity.

01:03:37.840 I think it's even healthy for most

01:03:39.080 people that believe at some level that their

01:03:41.300 country has a special relationship

01:03:43.420 with God. I actually do think that's

01:03:45.340 pretty healthy for people to

01:03:47.320 understand. But there

01:03:48.960 is something else to be like, no, the

01:03:51.000 actual laws of the universe

01:03:52.740 are that people are going to hate and try to 0.98

01:03:55.300 destroy Jews, and then that'll 1.00

01:03:57.260 destroy them because Jews are like 0.99

01:03:59.260 the center of the story of mankind like that's kind of weird like sorry that's that's a little 0.99

01:04:05.340 strange i would have known bill maher as a comedian back in the 80s merv griffin show

01:04:09.660 on johnny carson show right so i knew him and then he begins his kind of career as a political

01:04:14.620 commentator but he first really came on my radar as a great critic of religion and i hated him i

01:04:19.340 thought you know that religious movie he just took the you know the worst examples of fundamentalism

01:04:23.820 and said well that's really it was a little heavy-handed he never talked to like a serious

01:04:27.260 religious person yeah it was a lot of caricaturing so he just sort of turned me off but i had the

01:04:32.620 romans called the gaudium de stilo when you have kind of a joy in someone's style you know there

01:04:36.700 was something about mara that i enjoyed watching so i kept watching him and he eventually dropped

01:04:41.980 religion he stopped talking about religion and he started talking about wokeism and i kept saying

01:04:48.300 yeah yeah yeah that's it yes and i'm like applauding with the crowd so if you watch

01:04:55.980 watch a show at all or you've followed me on twitter you know how i feel about the conservative 0.99

01:05:00.720 worship of bill maher oh bill maher he hates my guts he said i'm stupid he hates white people 0.99

01:05:06.760 he hates christians but but he said one thing men can't become women wow what a brave guy we love 1.00

01:05:14.820 bill maher he's the best what a champion for freedom like i'm i hate this stuff it's so stupid 1.00

01:05:20.560 It's so dumb. And that's just what we're engaging with here. Yes. Bill Maher spent his entire career 1.00

01:05:27.160 like crapping on me, hating my religion, calling it stupid, encouraging people to turn away from 1.00

01:05:33.360 Christ, to abandon God, to embrace hedonism at every level, to, to hate, you know, my culture, 1.00

01:05:39.960 my people, but you know what? He doesn't like that transgender stuff so much. Sometimes maybe 1.00

01:05:45.880 actually he's usually not that based on it, but one time he did say something. And so now

01:05:50.280 oh boy that's it buddy you're on my side remember these are the guys who said william f buckley

01:05:55.200 needed to purge everybody they disagreed with from the right but bill maher the angry anti-christian

01:06:05.660 atheist who has consistently attacked insulted slandered conservatives the right white people

01:06:13.240 christians for years on end the minute he talks about wokeness back in you're good man don't worry

01:06:19.260 you're not one of those bad john birch society guys who hated communism you're one of the good 0.98

01:06:23.660 people who just supports gay marriage and legalizing every drug and prostitute prostitution 0.99

01:06:28.400 and hates christians and yeah you're one of those good ones like what are we doing here 0.98

01:06:33.280 so mar to me is a fascinating figure because boy he's one of the only classical liberals as you say 0.66

01:06:40.720 who really called out the kookiness of the left um bill is right about most of the issues i would

01:06:47.300 Bill is not right about most of the issues and again this is what infuriates me what Dave Rubin

01:06:54.880 means is Dave is still a leftist when he says Bill is right on most of the issues he means I

01:07:01.900 am basically still a leftist because I can still see a guy like Bill Maher who like adamantly hates

01:07:07.880 the right on every level and be like yeah that guy's pretty close he's basically here no he's

01:07:14.960 not on every critical issue except what opposing anti-semitism right that's the one like other than

01:07:22.500 that bill maher is not right yes he'll he'll slap the left on the wrist in a monologue like once

01:07:28.820 every you know month or two to get the the clicks and the plays and the adulation from the right 1.00

01:07:34.180 he's wrong on everything he's wrong on everything he's garbage he's a terrible human being he hates 1.00

01:07:40.800 me he hates mine he hates my religion he hates my god but yeah i guess he's willingly right on 1.00

01:07:46.780 all the issues right roughly let's say you absolutely disagree with him on abortion and

01:07:51.900 actually i'm closer to your position on abortion than i am with bill but let's say so if you're

01:07:56.380 bishop bearing sitting at this table i'm sorry this is immoral there's no other way to say this 0.98

01:08:01.160 this is immoral bishop bearing is sitting across the table from a man who literally is gay married 0.61

01:08:07.820 has as i understand a contract that was very standard in uh you know the these different um 0.95

01:08:15.520 uh uh these different uh surrogacy contracts that says if there's something wrong with the baby we

01:08:21.680 can force the mother to abort it and he's like well no i'm pretty close to your position i mean

01:08:29.060 maybe he's changed his mind since he bought his kids but at the very least bishop parents should

01:08:34.260 say something here look i get it i've done interviews with people i just wanted to understand

01:08:39.620 i've i've interviewed guys like alexander dugan and i have not gone at them hammer and tong even

01:08:45.840 though i disagree with them severely on certain things because i wanted to get to understand what

01:08:50.480 was going on with them i wanted to get the maximum time for them to explain what was happening and

01:08:55.660 what they believe so maybe that's what he's doing here and fine if that's the case but i just i don't

01:09:01.580 no man in a moment like this when when you know this guy is publicly representing very like

01:09:07.400 obviously this position and you don't bring it up at all he's roughly right about what america is

01:09:13.400 and free speech and things like that what the conclusion i've come to is that donald trump at

01:09:18.780 a political level is the best guy to accomplish that that there's nothing left in the democrat

01:09:23.960 party to accomplish those things if you care about free speech if you care about capitalism

01:09:28.400 if you care about law and order, et cetera, et cetera, there's nothing left for you.

01:09:32.440 Yes, you have you and John Fetterman, and it's a lonely boat, and good luck.

01:09:36.480 However, there is something to be said for somebody that stakes out that position and says,

01:09:41.820 I will not move. Now, if he voted, I don't know if he even voted, but if he voted for Kamala,

01:09:48.780 I would think, boy, that's... He said he did, I think. Yeah, did he say he did? I know he didn't

01:09:54.140 vote for trump so okay so they're converting so they're confirming that bill maher has learned

01:09:59.540 nothing he's learned nothing oh he's anti-woke who would he vote for kamala harris kamala harris

01:10:07.040 the avatar of woke the dei uh like candidate for president he voted for her for all the oh well

01:10:19.220 he's learned and he's basically right on all the issues and oh man you know ultimately isn't he

01:10:25.620 doing what's important no not in any way shape or form and you're admitting it but but we still love

01:10:32.380 him can't talk to the john birch society can't talk to anybody who's got questions about israel

01:10:37.860 and our relationship with them fine with a guy who votes kamala harris because we need open borders

01:10:43.120 and trans kids but he's anti-woke maybe sometimes in one monologue three minutes at a time every 0.99

01:10:49.220 month it's pathetic it's so pathetic so to me that i just don't understand how you could take 0.99

01:10:55.060 all your positions that you're right about and then vote for someone who's antithetical to all 0.99

01:10:59.640 of those things because it's tribal dave because his beliefs mean nothing at the end of the but

01:11:06.220 anyway whatever but but that's a small piece actually in a way the position where he gets

01:11:11.020 up there every Friday night on that show, brings on people who he agrees and disagrees with as we

01:11:16.160 talk about, and then says, I'm here and I did not change. I do think that is admirable. And,

01:11:23.280 you know, if you sat down with him and you debated abortion for two hours, I don't think you would

01:11:29.480 change his opinion, but I don't think either one of you would leave angry. Yeah. And I think that

01:11:34.680 that's, well, that clearly is the theme that we keep coming back to here. Right. And I admire that

01:11:39.280 about him very much that he does have people and he often complains because democrats don't come

01:11:43.240 on my show republicans come on my show can i tell you something so so again i know i've hit on this

01:11:48.880 several times but the fact that they just keep walking into this insane contradiction and

01:11:53.020 hypocrisy it blows my mind they have repeatedly over and over again talked about how great it is

01:11:59.960 that william f buckley and these other conservative gatekeepers would not talk to anybody who had any 0.97

01:12:06.260 questions about israel but it's great that you can talk to somebody who loves baby murder

01:12:13.420 which one is worse i'm sorry like look again ethnic hatred bad don't engage in ethnic hatred 0.54

01:12:20.560 but what is worse an anti-semite who mutters to himself under his breath on his front porch

01:12:27.160 or someone who's like actively involved in supporting the murder of children 0.71

01:12:32.580 like which one is worse again you shouldn't hate jewish people you certainly shouldn't

01:12:37.980 take acts of violence out against them but if someone like just holds these beliefs somewhere 0.54

01:12:42.880 in the abstract while another person is like actively facilitating the murder of children

01:12:49.280 which one of these people is more rapport morally repugnant which one is not worthy of having a

01:12:55.120 discussion with because for dave and bishop barron the only real sin the only unforgivable sin the 0.75

01:13:01.020 only untouchable sin the one which you cannot have a discussion with is opposing israel baby

01:13:07.920 murder yeah go have go have a two-hour conversation with bill maher you won't change his mind but you

01:13:13.040 know you won't be angry at him maybe you should be you certainly be angry at him than people who

01:13:19.940 aren't a big fan of our relationship with israel but we're never gonna we're never gonna i guess

01:13:25.280 understand that we're never gonna grasp this um when i did club random which is about two or three

01:13:29.860 years ago. I said to him something that I now realize I did light a little fire in him. I said

01:13:36.080 to him, Bill, this is before he had sort of made amends with Trump and everything, before the last

01:13:40.920 election. I said, Bill, tell me this. If you went to a Trump rally, I can tell you what would happen.

01:13:45.940 You go to a Trump rally and people would love it. They would be like, holy cow, Bill Maher's here.

01:13:49.960 They'd be like, I disagree with him on some stuff and he's a little wacky on abortion. Abortion would

01:13:53.960 probably be the big one. But they'd be like, it's Bill Maher. How cool. It's great. It's great. I

01:13:57.640 said bill what would it be like if you showed up to an aoc rally yeah you would be hated and i i can

01:14:03.220 send you the clip his eyes like this because he suddenly was like you're right yeah you're right

01:14:09.220 and that so that's the interesting thing where your voting habits okay his voting habits are

01:14:14.960 one thing but the idea set is something else so so the fact that he came to this realization with

01:14:23.560 dave and dave thinks he he got through to bill mar on this and then bill mar turns around and

01:14:28.340 votes exactly the opposite way and and dave's like well that's not what matters the idea set

01:14:32.560 is what matters what does that even mean does the idea set not inform the vote and if not why not

01:14:38.780 dave you want to be a little more specific why is bill mar gonna vote for kamala harris for the rest

01:14:43.800 of his life despite you proving to him that left hates him and conservatives would welcome in what

01:14:50.140 does that mean oh it means bill myers hatred of conservatives christians americans is more powerful

01:14:58.200 than the actual rational understanding that conservatives would be kinder and more welcoming

01:15:04.420 and build more of the society he wants he hates religion and the right so much that even with that

01:15:11.940 realization he will vote left and then dave pretends that doesn't mean anything no it means

01:15:15.580 everything, Dave. It means everything. And I think as the years go by, he will just find common cause

01:15:22.340 with people. You know what? It's very similar to Richard Dawkins, who's obviously a hugely well

01:15:25.860 known atheist. He's now very appreciative. He spent his life trying to basically destroy

01:15:29.660 Christianity, but now appreciates Christian culture. Well, because he realizes that Islam 0.99

01:15:34.740 as it encroaches on the West is now a much bigger issue. So suddenly he's very appreciative of living 1.00

01:15:40.380 in a Christian culture. So whether he can grapple with that or what he's going to say on his death

01:15:44.840 bed or whatever well the question is can you get a christian culture without without christianity

01:15:48.440 am i would say no ultimately no i would say no and enjoying the fruits of something that he's

01:15:52.560 trying to destroy right the plant you know well this was again a fair criticism of dawkins when

01:15:58.720 i've made personally bishop barron's on good footing here nothing nothing to disagree with

01:16:02.500 always the debate and in some sense this is what separates maybe the classical liberal from the

01:16:06.220 conservative did it all start with the enlightenment or was there something beneath that

01:16:10.280 that's what jordan and sam harris debated for years i've come closer obviously to the

01:16:14.200 to see that's a good question i think you know that's my philosopher's hat on that's a really

01:16:18.920 interesting question because i would say the best of the enlightenment is a fruit of christianity

01:16:23.040 yes the worst of the enlightenment is a distortion of it and so there should not be a conflict

01:16:28.160 between christianity and the enlightenment in the french revolution there was indeed because i mean

01:16:32.980 that became a radicalized and became deeply anti-clerical anti-religious so this is where

01:16:38.620 we kind of do a little one one two step here right so yes it's true that the enlightenment

01:16:44.500 had different impacts in different areas and there's a reason for that but this is also the

01:16:49.220 problem with like just lumping the enlightenment into one thing uh which of course it wasn't like

01:16:53.880 you know the difference between rock lock and russo matters even if you know they they might

01:16:58.960 agree on too many things for our uh you know for our comfort ultimately they did they are different

01:17:05.160 And they come up with very different systems and different results.

01:17:07.940 And so the American revolution is very,

01:17:09.980 very different from the French revolution.

01:17:12.160 But there is a certain level of secularization that occurs under the

01:17:15.420 enlightenment and Bishop Barrett is a Catholic.

01:17:19.360 Like, again, if any, if anyone's going to,

01:17:22.560 you could understand like why a Protestant might say this at some level,

01:17:25.920 but even then I think Protestants shouldn't probably say this,

01:17:28.140 but why is he standing for the enlightenment?

01:17:30.740 Like he's a Catholic.

01:17:32.560 They, they don't believe this and not supposed to, 0.73

01:17:35.160 Like, what's he talking about here?

01:17:36.660 Our revolution, thank God, was not.

01:17:38.960 Even though you had, you know, deists like Jefferson and Ben Franklin, but you know, a lot of very committed Christians who gave rise to the American experiment.

01:17:47.180 And it's not by its nature anti-clerical or anti-religious. 0.53

01:17:51.400 That's the ominous.

01:17:52.620 I was on this Religious Liberty Commission.

01:17:55.020 We just finished our work.

01:17:56.600 But that's the basic assumption of it, is that the American commitment to religious liberty is a Christian idea.

01:18:02.320 it's not it's not you know opposed to christianity or trying to limit christianity it comes up out of

01:18:07.160 the heart of christianity so end of sermon on that wasn't someone removed from the religious

01:18:12.420 liberty commission that he just mentioned because they didn't support israel like wasn't there a

01:18:17.120 catholic woman who was ultimately like removed for it for not being sufficiently supportive of

01:18:22.600 the state of israel like i i'm pretty sure i'm remembering that correctly i could be wrong i

01:18:27.920 could be wrong but i think that's the case and if so that's a very interesting comment to make

01:18:31.500 after saying like we need to be able to sit down and talk to people and have these conversations

01:18:35.540 and yeah i i could i could hang out with bill maher and talk about baby murder all day uh but

01:18:41.300 if a catholic who isn't big on israel gets removed from the religious liberty commission well

01:18:46.780 i don't have much to say about that i don't know man yeah um well i would say bill as time goes on

01:18:52.380 i think he realizes that more and more it's also why during covid most of the people that i found

01:18:58.260 were kind of sane during COVID happened to be religious because they believed in something

01:19:03.740 else beyond what Anthony Fauci was telling them every day.

01:19:06.720 Did you notice this?

01:19:07.760 It struck me in 2020.

01:19:09.440 So the great civil rights movement, right, of the 50s and 60s didn't just have religious

01:19:14.260 people in it.

01:19:15.080 It was led by religious people, most notably King, but many others too.

01:19:19.260 It was led by deeply biblical people.

01:19:23.300 Martin Luther King was not deeply biblical.

01:19:25.780 He did not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ.

01:19:28.260 He cheated on his wife constantly.

01:19:31.220 He was deeply unfaithful. 0.88

01:19:32.940 He's been accused of enabling rape, possibly committing rape himself.

01:19:38.480 Like, this is not true.

01:19:40.440 Like, this is pop history.

01:19:42.760 This is in no way true.

01:19:44.180 And again, he's a man of the cloth.

01:19:46.240 Like, he should be telling the truth here, or at least he should be availing himself of the truth, learning about this.

01:19:52.900 Rabbi Heschel.

01:19:53.820 you know most of the white people the white quote-unquote people that king was marching with 0.70

01:19:58.740 were jews actually okay so so dave rubin previously is like well they hate they hate jews because 0.94

01:20:14.180 they're white and they that's why the left hates jews because they see them as white 0.92

01:20:17.800 and then he takes the time to be like actually the people marching in the civil rights movement 0.93

01:20:23.820 the ones that made the civil rights movement good,

01:20:25.920 because they're contrasting it with, you know,

01:20:28.420 2020 and George Floyd and the BLM riots.

01:20:31.580 He said, what makes those riots that happened in the 60s,

01:20:34.820 and there were lots of riots in the civil rights movement,

01:20:37.760 what makes those riots good and these riots bad 0.85

01:20:39.800 is there were Christians leading them. 1.00

01:20:42.420 Which Christians?

01:20:43.400 Well, Martin Luther King,

01:20:44.700 who didn't really believe in Christian doctrine.

01:20:46.920 Okay.

01:20:47.640 And who else was there?

01:20:48.620 Oh, religious people, white people. 0.75

01:20:50.660 Well, actually they were Jews.

01:20:52.220 It was the Jewish people.

01:20:53.820 okay um just dave contradicting himself a lot here can't can't seem to hold are jewish people

01:21:01.680 white or not is is that good or bad and what the civil rights movement i guess is good but

01:21:07.060 the marching for civil rights now is bad what they don't recognize is of course

01:21:10.360 that the civil rights movement became wokeness wokeness is the natural evolution of the civil

01:21:16.480 rights movement it is it is intellectually tied again i've done entire episodes on this i'm not

01:21:22.140 going to go back and break it all down right now but like this is the natural culmination of the

01:21:27.360 civil rights movement all you want is the last version of liberalism all you want is the slightly

01:21:32.220 less radical version of liberalism the one you told was non-violent even though there were plenty

01:21:36.780 of race riots in the 50s and 60s and 70s but you're you're pretending because you don't know

01:21:42.780 history after you insulted people for not knowing history again it's absurd yes and so it was led by

01:21:47.940 religious people 2020 riots religious people were conspicuous by their absence because the woke

01:21:54.180 revolution doesn't like religion the civil rights movement came from religion it came from that

01:22:01.020 narrative you just read no civil rights became the religion and that's what bishop barron is

01:22:08.140 not confronting and dave rubin's definitely not confronting they hate religion because the civil

01:22:14.180 rights movement became the religion and it can't have other competing religions wokeness is just

01:22:20.880 the final religious manifestation of civil rights which seems to be the religion that both of these

01:22:26.940 men actually seem to primarily put before other very important beliefs that's the problem that's

01:22:36.500 the issue first well because woke is a cult not a religion no right that's the difference right

01:22:42.480 Right. But it struck me as a very interesting difference. The hostility to religion, which has been part of the university culture for too long, too, that came out of that whole wokest mentality. Religion's on the side of the oppressor and all that. Okay, let me ask this question.

01:22:57.920 Yeah.

01:23:00.300 How do you explain Bernie Sanders? Now, here's what I mean.

01:23:04.660 I'd rather do deep existential stuff. This is pretty thin, but okay.

01:23:08.460 No, but no, I think it's related to it though,

01:23:10.360 because I come from a very strong democratic family.

01:23:14.520 So I'm a Chicago Catholic.

01:23:16.220 That meant Mayor Daley.

01:23:18.060 And it meant, you know, like my dad loved politics.

01:23:21.620 Franklin Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman,

01:23:24.260 Adlai Stevenson, John F. Kennedy.

01:23:26.960 Those were his political heroes.

01:23:28.580 I grew up, one of my earliest political memories

01:23:30.860 is the Republican convention 1972

01:23:34.060 and my father lustily booing Richard Nixon, right?

01:23:38.460 So I left on that last part because it really ties the whole thing together.

01:23:41.800 It really just brings it all home.

01:23:44.660 Bishop Barron isn't conservative.

01:23:46.180 He's not right wing.

01:23:48.120 He's a leftist.

01:23:49.120 He grew up a leftist.

01:23:50.380 He still holds most of those beliefs.

01:23:52.800 Just like Dave Rubin.

01:23:54.640 This is not a conversation between two conservatives.

01:23:58.200 This is not a conversation between two classical liberals.

01:24:00.880 It was a conversation between two former leftists who find themselves now as, I guess, centrist because the left got so insane that they couldn't stay there anymore.

01:24:16.620 But that's all they want.

01:24:18.000 They just want us to go back to being good leftists.

01:24:21.160 They just want the last version of leftism.

01:24:23.320 it's still just the international

01:24:25.540 or the

01:24:26.600 intellectual dark web

01:24:30.200 from 10 years ago

01:24:31.480 nothing has changed

01:24:33.020 nothing has changed these men have learned nothing

01:24:35.640 and again that's what struck me about this whole thing

01:24:38.340 is just what a frozen

01:24:40.360 time capsule what a snapshot it is

01:24:42.500 of

01:24:44.120 2015-2016

01:24:45.380 and they have just not advanced at all

01:24:47.880 and they're befuddled about the world around them

01:24:50.420 because they never really actually

01:24:52.320 changed anything

01:24:53.320 They never really thought through where their beliefs are and where they were

01:24:58.120 going, what the natural end of them was.

01:25:00.700 But that said, guys, again, long thing.

01:25:03.940 Took me like almost an hour and a half to get through just the clips I pulled

01:25:06.520 up there.

01:25:06.960 But feel free to go back and watch the whole thing.

01:25:08.800 Never want to take people out of context.

01:25:10.600 Never want you to think I'm misrepresenting it.

01:25:12.540 But a lot of what I cut out was just more of this like, oh, yeah,

01:25:15.920 the left is a little crazy.

01:25:16.860 Got a little crazy there.

01:25:17.720 Can't you believe?

01:25:18.360 I can't believe the left got crazy like that.

01:25:20.040 We should talk about free speech.

01:25:21.420 like it's just a lot of rehashing that over and over again but by all means please feel free to

01:25:27.300 go back and watch the original that said let's go to the questions of the people here

01:25:33.180 manny youd says i remember the intellectual dark web days man how much things have changed since

01:25:41.560 back then the idea that people are still stuck in 2016 mindset like dave rubin is wild and sad yeah

01:25:46.520 Like I said, you know, people like Jordan Peterson, look, Jordan Peterson, far from

01:25:51.860 perfect, but he changed over time.

01:25:54.000 You had guys like Brett Weinstein, who I think changed like very credibly, probably like

01:25:58.720 the most change out of the people in the actual dark web.

01:26:01.920 You have guys who are adjacent to it, like Carl Benjamin, who changed radically.

01:26:05.160 These are all people I think are worthy of our respect.

01:26:07.320 And so it's just amazing to watch those guys take those those journeys and then watch Dave

01:26:11.360 Rubin and Bishop Barrett sit there and like reheat these talking points from 10 years

01:26:15.900 ago.

01:26:16.520 sean wineland says conservatism is just progressivism driving the speed limit yeah i

01:26:21.480 believe that's michael malice and one of the truest things ever said many says being right

01:26:27.380 wing has been functionally illegal since september 2nd 1945 all in fear of an ideology long since

01:26:34.180 dead and defunct this is why we can't have a homeland because the fear of a dead idea yes

01:26:39.120 i've talked about this i think um that uh r.r reno's return of the strong gods is one of the

01:26:44.760 better books, you know, describing this phenomenon. If you haven't read it, you should definitely

01:26:48.900 read it. Or if you don't have time, you could at least watch the episode I did on it a little bit

01:26:52.820 ago. Well, actually a couple of years ago at this point. David Dundon says, sorry, Rube,

01:27:00.000 center dissolved. Incoherencies, contradictions, lies, too obvious, too few benefits, too many

01:27:05.900 grievous harms. IEW equals mouths without a constituency nation for me, not for the ending.

01:27:14.340 yep i think that's a pretty good summation there man i think that's basically exactly where we got

01:27:19.380 to and why this is just ringing so hollow both these guys are surprised that both sides have

01:27:24.060 gone very different directions i'm not surprised at all because i understood that what they were

01:27:28.800 selling at the beginning well i didn't understand it right at the beginning but i quickly learned

01:27:32.940 that it was insufficient it was a good starting place i don't blame anyone for going through this

01:27:37.240 phase i went through it too but you have to be an adult it's like uh it's like reading ayn rand

01:27:41.360 right like every 16 year old thinks ian rand is an absolute genius and then you become an adult

01:27:46.120 and you move out of it unless you're libertarian wild speaker says all these i didn't leave the 0.78

01:27:51.780 left left left me types were always foolish allies to rely on they willfully admit that they are

01:27:57.040 still left-wing yeah again i i wrote a article early on when i was the blaze recorded a video

01:28:01.660 about it called the neocon cycle i think this is a big part of it i think it's very dangerous to

01:28:06.460 put people like this in charge of a movement to see them as the center of any of this movement

01:28:10.100 uh and so i think it's just very foolish you know if you're someone who is moving away from the left 0.92

01:28:14.860 that's great i'll talk to you i'll encourage you but i'm not putting you in charge of anything and 0.72

01:28:18.640 you definitely go you don't get to tell me what conservatives should be doing what right wingers

01:28:22.280 should believe manny youd says communism kills the body but liberalism rots the soul so true sir

01:28:29.120 so true dorito world order says can we get your take on the christopher nolan uh blackwashing

01:28:36.660 trans watching the odyssey love the guys movies but seems like you've jumped the shark yep i'm

01:28:41.520 i feel exactly the same way huge christopher nolan fan uh memento was like the first like

01:28:46.720 really artsy complicated movie ever saw uh blew my mind love the prestige love inception uh love

01:28:54.440 the batman movies uh just fantastic uh even liked interstellar even though i thought it got uh weird

01:29:00.480 and and kind of boring in places uh but his last few movies uh i mean he had oppenheimer which is

01:29:06.200 solid uh but like um you know tenant was was not great and then now this uh you know i'm just not

01:29:13.260 going to go see it is the short answer to that like sorry i love nolan i love his movies i i'm

01:29:18.200 not i'm not going to go out there try to lead the boycott on this i don't know if we're going to

01:29:21.860 shut down you know one of the biggest filmmakers in hollywood uh but i i'm not going to see it

01:29:27.100 because it just it disgraces the material and i don't want to be a part of that weirdy curve says 0.80

01:29:32.760 the buckleyites made their cowardice a vice very much so very much so and wild speaker says we

01:29:40.240 must invent time travel so we can uh make john locke sit uh clockwork orange style to watch 0.53

01:29:46.040 modern day surrogacy videos in order to prevent liberalism yeah yeah to be fair at least at least

01:29:52.280 locke said you can't trust atheists right so he would have been right about bill maher um but yeah

01:29:56.900 I think if, if Locke knew the, ultimately the, um, you know, kind of fruit of his ideology, 0.94

01:30:03.360 he would have just been like, you know what?

01:30:04.960 Fillmore's right.

01:30:05.900 Divine right of Kings.

01:30:06.980 Uh, you know, stick, stick with the monarchy.

01:30:09.960 Never, never turn this stuff loose.

01:30:11.680 I think that that's probably true.

01:30:13.460 If we could go back and actually show them where everything went.

01:30:16.500 All right, guys, that said, thank you so much for watching.

01:30:18.740 It's always a pleasure.

01:30:19.980 I appreciate everyone coming by watching live.

01:30:22.100 Great having a discussion with you.

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01:30:42.700 helps with the algorithm and of course i have my book the total state it is out in its second

01:30:46.740 printing paperback got an extra chapter now so if you've been waiting for the paperback or for the

01:30:51.500 extra chapter now's your time pull the trigger go on amazon pick up the total state thank you

01:30:55.480 everybody for watching and as always i will talk to you next time

The Auron MacIntyre Show - May 18, 2026

The Dave Rubin and Bishop Barron Interview Was Bizarre ｜ 5 ⧸18⧸26

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